Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - How Quitting Your Dream Job Can Make You a Millionaire - E167

Starting point is 00:00:00 It's the same game, but in a sense, when you go on the show, it seems that it removes the distractions that we normally have to deal with in real life. I mean, you're back in it now. And now you can't just be like, you know, I wonder if Sophie is telling me the truth right now and make your whole day about that. Now it's like you got people telling you what they think about you and you're watching the news and we've got a war and Iran and all that stuff. So what part of Survivor kind of made you realize, like, you're watching. like, oh, wow, this is exactly how life works, but we don't usually get to see life with this clarity when the TV's on or the scroll is scrolling. Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you? That your beliefs, perceptions, reactions,

Starting point is 00:00:48 fears and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise? How easy it's been for you to slip into that default sleepwalking mode and label it as life and reality. Yeah, that ends here. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control, and step back into that role as the shock caller and dominant force of your own reality. It's when you change the way that you look at things, that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up. Let's rise up.

Starting point is 00:01:22 And let's make sense of why and how shift happens. Makes sense. Hello. Hey, how are you? I'm just imagining that you're doing like 20 of these a day right now. But you're the one I'm most excited for. How about that? Oh, you tell all the podcasters that.

Starting point is 00:01:47 No, I've never told that to another podcaster. Well, what's interesting, from what I can gather, you haven't really had the opportunity to do a show on what you probably probably want to talk about, you know? I mean, I've seen a lot of tribal council kind of conversations and stuff, which I think is super fun. But I'm going to take you in a totally different direction. And I think that you're like perfect for it. So, oh boy. All right. I'm excited. Yeah, let's get wild with it. I'm up for whatever, wherever you want this journey to go. I don't know if I'd call it wild, but welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, the amazing Savannah Louie. This is going to be fun.

Starting point is 00:02:27 Dr. J.C., I am so excited to be here and share a little bit about everything, it sounds like. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And one of the things that I have to tell you, and I want to arm and equip you with this, is I'm 54. So I'm like a Richard Hatch guy. You know what I mean? So I go way back with it. But it turns out, when I realized that I was going to be having you on the show, I always tell my kids about it. And it turns out that my son, Jeremy, who's 22 and his best friend.

Starting point is 00:02:57 friend Quinn are not only Survivor fans, but dare I say, Savannah Louie obsessed fans, maybe. So I just want to let you know that I do have a question that they gave me and that will come later. But first, I just want to tell you what I like about you. And that's what's going to be. Yeah. Because we've, we've never met and I did a little bit of research on you other than I don't believe anything that I see on the TV and what I see on the internet. So I looked into you. And that's kind of just the way we're going to kick things off. So here's the way I look at it. When it comes to Survivor, a lot of people play Survivor, and I would assume that they do it, hoping to win. But one of the things that I noticed about you is that you showed up expecting to win.

Starting point is 00:03:44 That was one of the first things that I noticed. And I started to say, uh-huh. And you didn't just play confidently at the game. It seems like you kind of decided that you were just going to be your and then act accordingly. And that was going to be good enough. And I know that one of the topics you talk about is betting on yourself. So that was the first thing that I noticed was kind of like connected to that, is that you were going to show up and use your stuff and it was going to be ample to win. And what's powerful about that is that you didn't start doing that only on the island. And I don't know how many people really relate your previous story, but it seems that you started showing up like that the day that you left a career that most people are like

Starting point is 00:04:31 hoping and dreaming to have one day. And, you know, they might have said like, what are you a fool? And you might have, you might have gone through that as well. But I just like the fact that that was the first step to betting on yourself. Because when you go on a show like this, the odds of winning, I mean, I don't know if you've ever looked it up, but the odds of getting on the show and the odds of winning are very, very slim. You'd have to bet on yourself. And I think that's exactly what the world and people need to hear right now. So that's what I like about you. And I'm sure there's going to be other things about Savannah Louie that we're going to learn.

Starting point is 00:05:04 But what do you think? I mean, have you ever had anyone take some time to tell you what they like about you? I mean, I think I got to do this podcast every day. That's right. You're welcome to. We can meet here in the morning every day. I love it. You know, it's been so interesting being in the public eye over the past year because

Starting point is 00:05:21 don't get me wrong, there's a lot of fans out there, probably like your son, who love the way that I played the game. But there are also a lot of people and a lot of very loud people who do not think the world of me, who have been very vocal about that. And, you know, I think there's something to being your true self that when you step into who you are and you own who you are, you're going to have people who resonate with that. But you're also going to have people who don't gel with that and who don't jive with that. So it's kind of honestly a little freeing and a little empowering to be yourself because it gives you that permission to really just not care if there are the haters out there. But when there are people who can't appreciate things about you, it really means so much more because that truly is me. You nailed it. And what's interesting about that just off the cuff is that when you decide to just be yourself and you start experiencing some of that, you know, I call those people that like just seem to.

Starting point is 00:06:20 have a lot of free time to just complain about somebody else rather than take responsibility for their own lives. I call them flow burglars. You have to also kind of arm yourself with either, hey, fuck them, you know, I'm going to be myself, or you might go the other way and care too much about it. So it's something that we always have to navigate. So I want to go back kind of before Survivor and let people know a little bit more about you. You were in Atlanta News First Anchor, and if anybody wants to look her up. She looks a little bit younger. You know, she's obviously still young, but, you know, she used to kick some serious ass at that job. And for most people, like I said, that's kind of a destination that they've set. But internally, it seems by learning more about

Starting point is 00:07:02 your story that something seemed a little bit like out of alignment for you. You know, I mean, why would somebody leave that? So what was the moment that you realized? And this is kind of a topic that we talk a lot about is like how we navigate through life and the ebbs and flows and make decisions and things like that. So what was the moment when you realized and you said to yourself, this isn't for me anymore? Was it triggered by the opportunity or did you kind of already know that there was something else? Well, you know, I wish I could say it was fully my decision to leave the industry. But to be perfectly honest with you, it wasn't. And this, just for context, I'd spent about nine years working in news. And it's a very fulfilling career. I'm so glad that I did it.

Starting point is 00:07:50 But it's also kind of an exhausting career, right? There's no such thing as traditional hours or normal schedule. You don't get a lunch break when you're working in news. You're oftentimes talking about a lot of really negative topics that are hard to digest. And it comes with so much stress. And so towards the end of my contract that I had with my station here in Atlanta, I was actually pulled into my boss's office and I was told, hey, Savannah, like, you've done a great job over the past three years that you've been here. But right now, we don't think this is the right fit for you. And I think, you know, to give my boss some credit, I think they saw that I was burnt out. And I just didn't have that same fire in me for the job as when I had first started, right?

Starting point is 00:08:34 It was starting to wear on me. And, you know, you think about the way that people enjoy news now. maybe it's on social media, you're scrolling through TikTok, you're on Facebook, you see something. Very rarely, I think, are people sitting in front of the TV for hours at a time. And when I left news, not only was I presenting the news for hours at a time, but that's also consuming a lot of negativity. And for me personally, I'm someone who can feel the energy from whatever I'm talking about or whoever I'm interacting with. I'm very sensitive to that. And so that was a big reason why I think at the end of my career, I was like, oh, you know, I think it's starting to show that it's just not the right fit. It was almost like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It just, it just

Starting point is 00:09:19 something wasn't working. And so, you know, after I had that conversation with my boss, I thought about it. And I thought, you know, is this really the right place for me? Not that particular station, but the industry. Am I being called to do something else? Sometimes I feel like we need maybe something external to help make that decision for us. And when that decision was partially made for me, I thought to myself, hey, I'm going to lean into this. What are things that make me feel joy, that make me feel alive, that make me excited about living? And as crazy as this might seem, Survivor, a reality TV show, that was one of the things that that had always created this bright light within me. I've loved the show ever since season one and the opportunity to go

Starting point is 00:10:07 chase it. I thought, well, hey, no better time than when I'm out of the job. Yeah, it's a great way to look at life too, because I think when the shit hits the fan in life, you know, we always recognize that it's not what happens in life is how we respond. But it seems like the universe was kind of like working with you. Because a lot of people might have the opportunity or the desire to be on the show, but they can't. It's not an opportunity because they're hooked into family. And I always wondered how people left their family and did that stuff. I don't know if that would be my bag, but it seems like you kind of like said, okay, so what's next? And just quickly, how did the opportunity for Survivor come? Did you just say, I'm going to like apply for it? What was that

Starting point is 00:10:52 about? You know, it's crazy. This whole thing actually started about 15 years ago. So I'm 32 now, but the first time I applied for the show, I was 17. So I was in high school. And I was in this media studies class. It was an elective course and for the class that I was in, we had this project where we could choose any type of media that we were interested in and do any sort of project. There was a lot of freedom here. And for that, that project that I had the opportunity to do, again, I was a huge survivor fan. So I thought to myself, hey, I'm just going to apply for the show and go through the process and show what this is like for my school assigned. And, you know, one thing led to another. And when I was 17, I actually got called back. And I actually went through the

Starting point is 00:11:38 process. Obviously, I didn't get on the show. But, you know, I've applied a couple of times over the years. This was the most recent time was my third time applying. And I mean, third times the charm, because I had heard back from producers every other time that I had applied. But this was the first time where stuff actually stuck and where, you know, I think production just saw how I could fit into the show. I had a lot more years on me. I had a little bit more wisdom on me as well. And it just ended up working out. So I've been trying to get on this show for a long time. It's interesting to always question like, I wonder why I did this. I wonder why I did that. It almost seems like the career as the anchor was probably the missing link. Because if you watch your episodes and you watch your journey and Survivor, a big part of your role, which might not have been a part of you when you're, you're, you know, younger was that you were very, very witty and you had that background, which you didn't seem to tell people about. But I think that they probably like controversy and they want suspense and things

Starting point is 00:12:40 and they were like, okay, she's ready. She's perfect. I want to go a little bit deeper and kind of make it a little bit more real. And that's what we're going to do here, was we're going to make this more relevant to the real world. So what's interesting about it, because you kind of went through this when you were told, hey, maybe this is not right for you. But Survivor was a game that's played in an extreme environment, you know, there's scarcity pressure, social politics. But I wonder, is it actually really that different from real life? It's like you were already in the game of life and you were just going to go play it somewhere else.

Starting point is 00:13:14 Or does it just remove, this is the coolest thing that I came up with with this, is I was just thinking it's the same game. But in a sense, when you go on the show, it seems that it removes the distractions. that we normally have to deal with in real life. Like all of the social, I mean, you're back in it now. And now you can't just be like, you know, I wonder if Sophie is telling me the truth right now and make your whole day about that.

Starting point is 00:13:44 Now it's like you got people telling you what they think about you and you're watching the news and we've got a war and Iran and all that stuff. So what part of Survivor kind of made you realize like, oh, wow, this is exactly how life, works, but we don't usually get to see life with this clarity when the TV's on or the scroll is scrolling. Yeah, I mean, you nailed it. It's really interesting because this reality TV show that we watch for entertainment, it is such a reflection on what's going on in our society or how people interact with one another on a day-to-day basis. It's wild that this thing that we consume

Starting point is 00:14:23 just for entertainment can have such a deeper meaning and relevancy to it. And, you know, also it's very similar to what you pointed out when you're out there on the island, no distractions. So you don't have a phone. You don't have the headlines from the news. You don't even have your family or your friends to really distract you. And while you might have people out there on the island who, yeah, you gel with and who you enjoy and who you grow to really love in some ways, you can never truly trust them completely. There's always a percentage of a chance that someone could be lying to you.

Starting point is 00:14:57 So at the end of the day, the only thing that you truly have out there on the island are your clothes and your bag and your bottle and yourself, right? Your body and your mind, that's truly everything that you have out there. And when you're in the moment and when you're forced to be present like that. And for me of us, that's the first time in our lives where we've truly had the opportunity to show up and be present like that. Just because naturally living as a human being in 2026, we're surrounded by noise, whether we want to be or not, it forces you. I think to show up in such a raw way. There's no hiding from any emotions or frustrations or fears that you might have out there. I actually had something happened to me about halfway through the game where I realized I was at the bottom of my tribe and what happened in the game was I get very emotional about it.

Starting point is 00:15:50 And I feel like I'm at the bottom. I feel like I'm excluded. But those emotions are so amplified by a work situation that actually happened to me years and years earlier, where I felt like I was very isolated in the newsroom. And I had this trauma that I had never truly processed that just came bubbling up to the surface just because I had no noise, no distraction, or no outlets to take away some of that pain that I thought I had run away from, or maybe I thought I had processed earlier. it turns out I had just really run away from it and never truly forced myself to reckon with some of those, those difficulties, if that makes sense. I love how you keep saying makes sense, just perfectly feeding into the show.

Starting point is 00:16:37 Name of my book is Makes Sense as well. So absolutely, you know, it's such a fascinating thing to look at it because most people would have just assumed that the whole purpose of survivor and the potential blessing of it is this idea of winning. or even getting close so you get more exposure or I'm sure everybody has are different reasons. But it seems like one of the biggest challenges that I see that humans have is to unwrap the present moment. I mean, everybody's even living in the future. Everybody is not satisfied with the now and they always going after the not now. But like here you are, you're put on this island and you're going through all these emotions that are obviously you want the money. But at the same time,

Starting point is 00:17:16 what a gift to be like you have to live in the present. And the other thing that I would see, which makes the fact that you won so impressive is when you have a bunch of people that are free from the noise and they're just living in the present moment, I would assume that it's very hard to bullshit people. Yeah, it is. It is. And you know what's so funny. I actually saw a life coach before I went out to play the game. And one of the things that we worked on together was almost like processing your emotions and trying to separate emotion from some of your decision making. And I wanted to go into the game being able to freely lie to others,

Starting point is 00:17:58 which is such a crazy thing to say because in my normal life, I don't think most people try to embody dishonesty or manipulation, or at least I hope not, in their general lives. But going into Survivor, like, that's one thing where you really kind of do want to lean into that because you have permission to lie and to manipulate people.

Starting point is 00:18:20 So one of the things that I try to. to do before you've been heading out there to Fiji was when I'm in a situation, any situation, understand the emotions that I'm feeling, whether they're positive or whether they're negative, because oftentimes, you know, part of being you and being and making decisions, it does kind of tend to be influenced, I think, by some of the things that you're feeling. And once I was able to understand the exact emotions I was feeling, whether it was, I don't know, anger or distrust or low self-confidence, I could think. move forward and logically think without letting emotions rule me, okay, what's the best decision

Starting point is 00:18:56 to make going forward? And when I was able to think logically, it almost helped me be more dishonest with people when I needed to be. But I will say one of the crazy things about my time in the game is I actually played a fairly honest game, I think, compared to the way that we see some of these other people play. I was so loyal to my allies. And I think that that's one of the things in my real life where I'm a very loyal person to my friends and my family.

Starting point is 00:19:22 And in the game of Survivor, parts of you are always going to shine through. Even in this game that is based on deception and manipulation, I mean, being loyal is such a huge part of who I am on this day-to-day basis. I had no choice but to really lean into it. And I think ultimately that's what helped me win the game. It's so fascinating to have permission to lie.

Starting point is 00:19:47 Because in real life, you know, it's like there's a very, very definitive line. Like if you lose somebody's trust, it's like, I got enough problems in life. I'm not talking to this. But when it's gamified, I'm just wondering, like, how much real human to human conversations were happening like off camera. Like, when you go through a scene and there's cameramen following you around and you're like, oh, shit, like, I'm not only dealing with this person, but somebody's like recording

Starting point is 00:20:16 what I say and the people vote and all that. stuff. How many times did you like get out of a scene per se and like have some time walking through a trail with somebody and there's nobody following you? If that happens where they're like, hey man, you were a little out of control there, you know, like real sister. Like, will you tell them the truth? Like, does that stuff happen? You know, so one of the crazy things about Survivor, there are always cameras rolling. Even in the middle of the night when you're asleep, there will be one camera who's filming literally nothing happening just in case something does happen. That's how amazing their crews are.

Starting point is 00:20:52 But yeah, I think a huge part of being able to be successful on the show is finding maybe that one or two person who has your back and who can be brutally honest with you. You know, I had a very close friend on the show, Sophie, and we're still like great friends. But I remember in one instance just being so stressed and so frustrated, I actually kind of snapped at her. I'm not like that in my normal life, but it's a byproduct of being in this stressful environment. And I think one of the beautiful things about it was Sophie and I were able to have a conversation that was on camera but never ended up making air. And she said to me, Savannah, like that really hurt my feelings.

Starting point is 00:21:34 And I said, dude, like, I know, like, that's my bad. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have snapped at you like that. That was not a reflection of how I view you or how I want to be perceived by you either. And so those moments do happen. It's a little tricky because, you know, production's always trying to tell a story. And sometimes things like that aren't necessarily relevant to the full story, but they do happen. And when you have an ally who you can trust to have your back, but also tell you when you do do things that are maybe a little bit crossing the line or hurtful at times.

Starting point is 00:22:06 Like that's everything to me. And it only builds that trust in a game where trust is everything. Yeah, I mean, I trust is everything in life. And that's what's so weird is you have to actually manipulate somebody, like somebody that you're like, I'm going to hang out with this girl and the real world. I hope so, but I'm going to screw her if I have to. And I would assume that just thinking, the only time that, like you just mentioned Sophie that you guys are still friends, like she was an actual friend, you guys probably didn't really know that until you decided to hang out after. It's just amazing.

Starting point is 00:22:41 how somebody could put so much work into an alliance and a friendship, but then all of a sudden be like, I was totally bullshitting, man, you're out, you know? So is that the way it is? It's like you really know somebody's true colors once the show's over? Yes and no. You know, it's so interesting because on the show, you are seeing everybody for who they are. You might, some people might have a mask up, but I think that mask can only stay up for so long, right? It's really hard to keep a mask on 24-7 if you get pretty far in the game. And so I knew exactly who Sophie and Rizzo was another one of my close allies out there as well, too. It felt like I knew them pretty well. But kind of like you're saying, it's everything that happens after the game that shows how

Starting point is 00:23:25 true and deep those friendships are. So I'll give you an example. When I left to go film season 50, which was just nine days after we had finished filming season 49. That's crazy. Crazy. It was obviously hard on me, but it was also really hard on my partner. I have an amazing boyfriend. He's super supportive of me and my crazy dreams. But at the same time, he has his needs, too, as a man who's with partner. And so while I was gone and while I was away, living my dream, Sophie messaged him and Rizzo's girlfriend. Rizzo also played 49 and 50 with me. But she message both of them every single day, checking in on them, making sure that they're doing okay. Yeah, it's just one of those things where similar to real life, how do your friends,

Starting point is 00:24:16 how do your people show up, not just for you, but for the people who are in your circle. That to me shows, okay, that's a friendship way bigger than a game. Even if that game is everything in our lives right now, it's everything that happened after that just showed me this girl is, you know, 100% legit. someone who I not only one, but I need to keep in my circle. Super cool. So much to learn about that. You know, and there's also this thing. When you have a true friend, you know, you are a bit forgiving with them as well. So most people think that pressure changes them, but I believe, and this is kind of something I talk about on the show,

Starting point is 00:24:57 that pressure actually reveals. So I just want to talk about your own personal growth journey from this experience or your whole experience. When you were exhausted, hungry, and, you know, backed into a corner, you were crying like you said, what is it that you discovered about who you really were on this show? Oh, my gosh. I love that question. There is so much truth to pressure reveals who we are. And I think it's kind of up to us when we're having those high moments, those good moments,

Starting point is 00:25:29 the moments where life just feels so easy. It's up to us to shape our. character and to grow and improve during those really positive moments. So that way when things get tough, we reveal maybe some armor that we've created for ourselves during the positive moments. But when I was out there in the game and I had those obstacles and I felt so alone, I mean, when you truly feel like you're by yourself, you are forced to kind of see what you're made up. And I learned a few different things. Number one, your body physically is capable of So much more than you would ever think.

Starting point is 00:26:05 I went like days without eating anything but but coconut. And, you know, I'm not sure how familiar you are with eating coconut. But typically if you eat, if that's all you're eating. It doesn't stay long. No. Yeah. And it causes digestive issues. It is not good for your stomach.

Starting point is 00:26:23 And so it gets to a point where you either have to choose, okay, am I going to be eating this coconut to nourish myself and feel sick to my stomach? Or am I just going to not eat and have no energy? And it's a tough decision to make, but one that you're forced to make in the game. But you truly realize, I mean, stranded on an island with very little food for 26 days, getting terrible sleep, sleeping in the literal dirt and sand, that sounds insane. And it kind of is. And I tell people this all the time.

Starting point is 00:26:52 If they're interested in doing the show, but they're a little hesitant, your body can do so much. Your body is programmed to take on a lot more than we force it to. go through every day. And I'm not saying everybody should go starve for 26 days on an island or anything like that. But I think most people are never forced to realize how incredibly powerful and strong our bodies are when they need to be. But more importantly, I think than that that physical aspect of strength is that mental toughness. You know what I mean? And my mental toughness, I mean, kind of like I said, it wasn't something that I created or that I shaped when I was on the island. It's something that I built from childhood, really. And it's something that was

Starting point is 00:27:36 built not only in tough moments where in life, maybe I felt lonely or I've maybe felt like I was at the bottom of the tribe when I worked in a newsroom. I was at the bottom of the newsroom, so to speak. Not only things like that, but when I've felt like I'm healthy and I'm strong and I'm capable, still continuing to push myself every day, whether it's with, I don't know, Just thinking about things that I was doing in my personal life, whether it was with intense workouts, maybe training for a marathon, maybe pushing myself to hit a new PR in the gym, whether it was at work trying to turn the best possible story to be the lead story of a newscast, to get a story before the competition at other news stations. There's always been something in my life where I've thought, I want to see if I can not only do this, but do the best version of it. And that creates a type of resilience. That resilience shows itself and appears when you're in these stressed moments.

Starting point is 00:28:32 And so when I'm on the island and you really have to almost test that, I had been putting things to the test for years. And that's ultimately what showed up. That's amazing. It's once again, it's just a wonderful opportunity outside of what most people are thinking about when they go into that mode. Okay, so we're going to switch into superfan mode here for a second. According to my son, like it's so funny for you to think about this because you're, you know a lot of people are watching, but there's like groups of people that like get together to watch it.

Starting point is 00:29:05 It must be so funny. I mean, my son's a great guy. He's very responsible. He's got a great job and gets good grades. But like, you know, he likes to consume, you know. You built strong alliances and this is kind of what they wanted to know. And it's probably interesting for you to find out what people were curious to know. But you built strong alliances with Rizzo.

Starting point is 00:29:24 Sophie, Sage, and Joanne, and I kind of know who these people are. So from the outside, according to your super fans, it looked like you had a solid, and that's a Jeremy word, a solid social game. Here's the question, and this comes from Jeremy and Quinn, and this is one of his best friends. Were you surprised by Christina's question at the final tribal? And did you feel like it was a fair critique? Like, that's what they want to know. Yeah, you know, it's so funny. That question was crazy. And, you know, if people are listening, they're not familiar with Christina's question for me at that final tribal council. Christina asked me if I could name a family member from every member of the jury. And I told her straight up, like, I don't think I can do that for context. Like, it's day 26. I'm exhausted. Like, I just want to wrap this thing up. And I told her I don't think I can do that. And Christina asked me to try. And I maybe.

Starting point is 00:30:23 named maybe like three people from the jury's family members. So to answer your question, though, even though it's not a question I would ask and I didn't think it was reflective of my social game, I think she's absolutely in her right to ask something like that. And it kind of, I mean, you can kind of relate that to things in real life as well. Just because I place a priority on other things like the physical part of the competition or the strategic part of the competition, other people might want to vote for a winner of the game based off of if they know the family member. And at the end of the day, that's Christina's decision. She's so within her right to do that.

Starting point is 00:31:01 And people are going to do that in our everyday lives, maybe not with, you know, sitting on the jury and awarding someone a million dollars for a game. But, you know, we're going to run into those things. We're not always going to agree with maybe that perspective, but we certainly have to respect it. And then secondly, we also need to figure out how to best give the jury what they want. to hear. In that moment, I knew, like, I'm not going to be able to do this. So I'll own up to it. I'm not going to tell Christina, yes, I can and then, you know, just fail miserably. But I'll own it. Yeah, sure. Maybe I didn't have a social game that required me to remember and memorize everybody's

Starting point is 00:31:37 family members. But you know what I do have. I know a little bit about each one of you. Yeah. Yes. And so I wanted to find a way to answer that question. And again, if you didn't watch the show, instead of naming a family member from everybody, I started telling people what I knew about them, maybe touching on things that I knew about their family, but, you know, also talking about conversations that we had had that were really meaningful to me. And I hoped that in doing so, maybe the jury would recognize, okay, yeah, sure, she doesn't remember my mom's name, but she remembers that we talked about this and we bonded over this and it was an important conversation and that the game is about a lot more than memorizing a name at the end of the day. It's so funny that they call it the

Starting point is 00:32:15 jury because it is really like a court of law. And it seems like a Christina is trying to, you know, defamate you. You know, she's trying to say like, oh, let me show you how full of crap this girl is. But at the same time, she probably is not one of your besties now, I would assume, and probably didn't vote for you. But she also unveiled that she has anger inside of her and because she kind of probably hate you because she ain't you type thing. So there's probably an interesting dynamic like that. And you have to be careful not to say like, oh, seems like somebody's a little bit upset, you know. Right.

Starting point is 00:32:54 You never want to make one of the jury members feel like they're on the spot we're being attacked. And I will say, I've gotten to know Christina outside of the game. And I actually adore her now. I think that the game brings out different sides of different people. And formerly working as a reporter, I'm someone who's very. straight up. I'm very direct with my communication style. With Christina, she has a very different communication style and that's okay. In the game, it showed up almost like it didn't work. It didn't mesh well. But outside of the game, when we don't have that pressure. Yeah, that's nice. And yeah,

Starting point is 00:33:27 we don't have that pressure, that stress. You get to know someone in a very different light. And even even though I did have some issues with Christina and some of the other people on my season, for the most part now, like, I would kick it with any of them. You know, we're all crazy people who went through this insane experience. And I absolutely respect everybody from my season and their decision to ask questions that maybe I don't like at the time. But as a fan, you know, I appreciate what it brings to the show. It's a little entertaining and a little drama to the show. That's so cool. Once again, you know, probably have so much gratitude for the experience. And, you know, you guys, even if you don't have someone that you care for, you still went through something together. I want to ask a

Starting point is 00:34:06 question about your perception of whether or not you felt understood or misunderstood while playing the game. And I think this is a fascinating way to look at it. How different was the game that you felt that you were playing versus the game that you think others perceived you were playing? Do you feel like people understood you or do you think they misunderstood you? Oh, that's such a good question. And I'll answer it in two different parts because I'll answer from the perspective of my actual cast and then also the perspective of the world who's seeing me play. So for my cast, I actually do think they saw the game I was trying to play. And I think that they labeled it as someone who, yes, is fierce, but also someone who is very scary and intense. And I'm not going to lie.

Starting point is 00:34:59 I am a very competitive person. I'm someone who is going to do whatever it takes to win. And I feel like that energy and that hunger for the win, it shined very bright in my season. And I think that's why some people were a little bit afraid of me. I think that I may have been mislabeled at times as being mean when in reality I'm someone who speaks with confidence. And that can definitely, I think maybe intimidate some people at times. But overall, I do think people saw me as someone who was a very intense gamer and who came to get that million dollars and when you have someone who is like that, it might be a little scary to you. Now, when I look at

Starting point is 00:35:36 the world, though, and how they perceive my game, I think that it's probably mixed reaction. I think you have people who see how I played and they understand like, hey, it's a game for a million dollars. Of course, this woman's going to be hungry to win. She's going to go after it. She's not going to hold back. And I think there's a lot of people who respect that. In the same vein, though, I think there are also some people who saw how I played and they think it is the worst thing in the world. There was one moment in the game where I attempt to steal someone's advantage. And again, one of the beautiful things about Survivor, along with giving you permission to deceive and be dishonest, but it also gives you the permission to steal and to cheat if you need to. Like that is inherently the game that

Starting point is 00:36:17 has no real written rules, right? People saw things like that as being mean and evil and nasty. And I didn't see it like that. I saw it as someone who is. competing for a million dollars. That's more money than I've ever seen in my entire life. I would think it's strange if I just sat there and watched everything play out and sat on my laurels. And if I wanted to play the game that I had again been waiting and trying to get on the show for 15 years, I was going to give it my all. I wasn't going to go out of the game and be voted off with any regrets. I wanted to leave it all on the table because that's how I do everything in life, whether it's playing survivor, whether it's doing a job, whether it's, you know, anything, really.

Starting point is 00:37:01 And so there's certainly people who don't understand that. But at the end of the day, the most important thing is that I feel okay and I feel at peace with how I play. And that the people in my real life, in my circle who know me, whether that's my friends or my family. And also, I think, a good part of my cast that they can recognize how I played. And, you know, maybe they don't like it all the time, but they at least respect it. And I can own that and I can sleep at night because that's exactly what I did. And at the end of the day, it won me a million dollars. I don't need everybody to like the way that I played.

Starting point is 00:37:34 But I just needed enough people on the jury to appreciate and respect how I played. That's good enough for me. There's a lot to be said about just respecting somebody's game, you know. So I was thinking I want to draw connection between something that a lot of people experience and potentially struggle with in real life. And I was thinking about imposter syndrome. You know, it's just the whole ego world. Imposter syndrome, comparative realities and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:38:03 And I thought a perfect way to do that would be to kind of draw a little bit of the experience of moving on to season 50, where you're going into Survivor 50 and you're no longer underestimated. You know, like everybody is like on alert and we've got a little bit of scar tissue. and we kind of know that everybody's there for the game, which in one sense might be kind of nice. Like, it's like there's no bullshit. I would assume that the first people that get kicked off

Starting point is 00:38:32 are like, what the heck happened of that? I didn't know that was going to happen. But that's kind of out now. Everybody equally wants to win and everybody thinks that they know what they're doing. You're playing with legends, you know. So was your mindset different for 50 than 49 in that sense? And I guess the big question is,

Starting point is 00:38:49 is it harder? to maintain that same level of confidence and resilience when expectations and egos are elevated, because this is a big part of the issues that people have in life. Yeah, you know, one of the most interesting things about the games that I played, 49 and 50, they were played back to back. And so when I went to go play 50, no one had seen how I played 49. No one knew my game. No one knew who I was. It can be a really freeing thing in one aspect. But at the same time, I still felt, that imposter syndrome that you're talking about because I still felt in a lot of ways. Like I was just a little old fan over here while I'm playing next to and playing against

Starting point is 00:39:30 these legends who I literally grew up watching, these legends who grew my love for the game. And so I remember getting out on the beach that very first day. And in some ways, you know, I felt familiar with the beach. I had just been out there for about a month. But in other ways, I felt even more scared to be on that beach the second time because you're playing with these incredible. people who are so good at not only Survivor, but other games maybe that they've played, whether it's traders or other competition shows, right?

Starting point is 00:40:00 They're these big names for a reason. And so it was intimidating in that aspect. But, you know, when you look at my mindset for 49 and for 50, for 49, I was so confident and determined that I was going to win. I just could feel it in my bones going out there. For 50, I didn't have that same confidence. I knew that, you know, because people had kind of been talking before we actually set out to the beach for 50. Some of these players already knew that I had won 49, but they didn't know exactly how I had played the game.

Starting point is 00:40:32 And to them, that uncertainty was going to be very scary in a game where information is everything and trust is everything. And so when I went out to go play 50, instead of feeling so determined, this thing was mine, I'm going to win, I'm going to do it. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be the first person voted out. These people are not going to want to play with me. I'm going to be lucky if I survived one tribal council. I'm just going to go for the experience. And if I can last out there longer than a day, that'll be considered a win. And, you know, in hindsight, I kind of do wish I had that same hunger and determination

Starting point is 00:41:09 that I had displayed in 49 as I had had for 50 because I think maybe I could have lasted a little bit longer in season 50. I was a very early boot. But at the same time, I don't know if I had it in me to have that same hunger. I was so physically and mentally exhausted. And I felt like I had really just proven myself in season 49. I don't know that I had the capacity to give much more, even though I love this game so much. And I was so grateful for the experience.

Starting point is 00:41:38 And it was truly incredible. I just, my tank was so exhausted in that moment. And, you know, maybe that's part of the reason, again, why I was one of the earlier boots for 50. But I do think also the cards were stacked against me. I think I was labeled as someone who's a pretty big threat, which is, you know, honestly, the biggest compliment, especially coming from some of these iconic players. And especially as someone who came in with a little imposter syndrome, it's almost a little poetic that I was voted out for being such a threat. I was thinking about that.

Starting point is 00:42:10 Like, if I was the first person kicked out when I was amongst legends, I would be like, That's right. You guys are smart to get rid of me because I'm ruthless. That's pretty funny. There's a lot to be said about confidence and clarity. And also when you're building relationships in the real world and you're trying to establish trust, you got to get to know people. And people didn't get a chance to do that. Even though they maybe were plotting against one another, they still felt like they knew one another. And that felt probably safer. So, but it seems to me, in learning about you because you're not the kind of person that fails when you go in assuming you're going to succeed. You had a fresh million in your pocket and you had achieved something

Starting point is 00:42:52 that like 0.000000000% of anybody would do, you probably were good. You know what I mean? Like this is like a cherry on the top that you didn't order, you know, so I like it. I want to talk about loyalty versus leverage. You know, this is this crossroads that a lot of people come to in life where they have to make a decision to do the right thing or do the right thing for themselves. So in both survivor and in real life, you know, people are constantly navigating that tension, you know, and it's kind of like, do I stay loyal or do I make the move that serves my future? And, you know, there's a case for both sides of that. You know, you got to, I don't think selfish is a bad word. You know, I think selfish is a bad word. You know, I think. think that human beings don't think, say, or do anything when there's no value. And it's just a matter of whether or not they understand it. So was there ever a moment where you were kind of contemplating between doing the right thing emotionally and maybe observing the conflict with doing the smart thing strategically? Like, did you ever have these moments where you had to not listen to your conscience and say, hey, you know, Savannah, this is the right thing to do? And then,

Starting point is 00:44:09 the little devil on your side that wants the million says, shut the hell up, we're doing this. You know, it's so interesting. I fully went into Survivor planning to backstab and lie and to manipulate everybody on the beach. And when I got out there, I very quickly realized, maybe not very quickly, but I realized soon enough that honestly, relying on my closest allies, that was going to be the strongest thing that would get me to the end. And I pledged my loyalty to them. and I was fully prepared to sit next to both of them at the very end,

Starting point is 00:44:38 even though it wouldn't necessarily be easier to win sitting next to both of them. I just felt so much confidence in myself and confidence in my own game. Not to say that either of them played poor games or anything like that, but I just felt so much loyalty to them. But I do want to say, I mean, I like how you brought up the acceptance of being selfish, right? Because I do think that's something that does appear, not only in Survivor, but in everyday life too. And I think especially as a woman, being selfish is met with pause a lot of times, right?

Starting point is 00:45:15 And I knew going into Survivor, like, I had to give myself permission to be selfish. And I kind of talked about this a little bit at the final tribal council. One of my cast members on the jury asked us all for our whys. Why are we out here playing the game? And I said, honestly, like, my why is just because I'm selfish. I wanted to do this for myself. I wanted to go after this and chase this, chase this dream. And for years, don't get me wrong, I love my career as a journalist.

Starting point is 00:45:44 And it was very, again, very fulfilling. But I felt like as a journalist, I had dedicated a huge part of my life to serving my community. That's why I became a journalist. Because I wanted to tell the stories of people who maybe didn't always have a voice. And I felt for the first time in a very long time, I was fully committing and pouring myself into something that I wanted to do. And I was having to ask from other people, whether it was my partner, my family, I needed to ask them for the support that I needed to go out and be

Starting point is 00:46:14 selfish and live this dream. And that's okay. So while I did want to be loyal and I felt like in my gut, being loyal was going to be what served me the best out there. And I was right. Always listen to your gut. I think that there's also elements of being selfish that I need. needed to lean into. So to answer your question, I mean, it's a little bit of both, right? And life is like that as well. Like you want to be as loyal as you can. I think there's a lot of great things that can come from being loyal. But you also need to know when it's appropriate to be selfish. And when it is appropriate to be selfish, you need to step into that and own it and see where you can go with it. Because at the end of the day, you might be working for a company or you might have people

Starting point is 00:47:00 in your circle who you can rely on, but at the end of the day, kind of like Survivor. The only thing you truly have is the clothes on your back and your body and your mind, yourself. Yeah. When you live in the world of self-development and personal growth and all this stuff, I mean, I've done a lot of coaching myself. And what you can see is that most people are jammed up and stuck just because they won't give themselves permission to receive. and you see so many people just feeling like it's the moral thing to do to just serve others.

Starting point is 00:47:34 And that's noble. You know, worked for Mother Teresa. But if you're at the same time complaining that you're not getting anywhere in life, at some point, you're going to have to give yourself permission to do that. And I'm seeing that that's a big connection in the concept of betting on yourself. You know, I mean, like, first of all, if you're betting on yourself, you know, what are you betting on yourself for. I mean, do people wake up and bet on themselves that they'll devote their whole life to others? No, it's, there has to be, I mean, the word self is the first four letters and

Starting point is 00:48:08 selfish, you know, but a lot of people hide behind that protective barrier of being an angel from heaven that, you know, but meanwhile, everybody wants and everybody needs to know that it's okay to want. And I think that what you just said is going to really land with people. So I want to talk about the prize, you know, the holy grail, you know, the million, you know, but I want to talk about what, you know, you know, you perceive as the real prize at this point because, you know, we don't, we don't take our money with us when we die. I mean, I always say that, because I've had tons of money in my life and I've been broke and neither of them I can equate maybe happier. I would prefer to have the money than not, but it doesn't fix everything. So I want to talk about that.

Starting point is 00:48:54 most people think that money changes everything. And there's something to say about that. But a lot of times, what I find that it does is it just amplifies people. How has your definition now? Because what I like about our interview is we're post. I don't know if you're having survivor withdrawal, but you're out in the real world now and you've got your lessons that you've learned. You've evolved as a person and you've got some money now,

Starting point is 00:49:18 which is sometimes a curse, right, if you don't know what to do with it. and everybody wants to talk to you now. And you're also thinking, how can I leverage it into more money? And that's kind of what we're helping you do right here in a sense. But how has your definition of success changed from chasing the anchor desk, you know, to winning this game? Did the million dollars give you freedom or is it more clarity that you're seeing as the prize? Oh my gosh. I mean, honestly, a little bit of both. And just to give you a little background, about how I grew up and why the money means so much to me. Just to be perfectly honest, I was what my parents would call an unexpected gift to the world. My parents were on welfare when they

Starting point is 00:50:05 had me. My mom was a student. Didn't have a lot. And growing up, you know, we were always taught, like, you will work for everything that you have. Do not take anything for granted. And, you know, even my first couple of jobs working as a journalist in TV news, like not very high-paying. industry until you get to the very top. You know what I mean? And I've always had, I think because of my background with money, I've always had a little, probably more than a little anxiety when it comes to finances, right? And maybe a scarcity mindset in some ways. But having this money, this check, right, especially when it seems like it happens overnight, it gives you freedom to explore other avenues and it gives a sense of comfort when I think about what I want to do and what paths

Starting point is 00:50:58 I want to explore. So moving forward, you know, I think about my time with Survivor, not just being on the island, but really over the past year, one of my favorite parts about this entire experience, which I didn't anticipate, has been hearing from people who watch the show, who have said to me, Savannah, I watch you, my daughters watch you, my family watches you, we love how you played the game. We love how you showed it's okay to be a strong, bold, confident woman and to go after what you want. That's the lesson that I want my kids to see.

Starting point is 00:51:29 That's the lesson that I needed to hear. Thank you for being vulnerable and open with me. That, to me, has been the greatest gift out of this entire experience. It's knowing that other people feel now empowered to maybe chase their dreams or to be someone who is selfish like we talked about at times. I mean, that to me has just been the greatest gift. And so right now what I'm trying to do and what I'm hoping to do is to share my story and my perspective with other people because in today's world, getting through the day

Starting point is 00:51:59 sometimes can be hard enough, right? And if I can use my voice to give people strength and encouragement and help them feel empowered, that's ultimately what I want to do. So to answer your question, this is kind of a long way of basically saying. You know, I am hoping that this money can basically, you know, sure be a little bit of security for me going forward. But how can I invest this into ways that I can amplify my voice to help other people? Because, you know, I truly feel like we all have a purpose. And I mean, I've talked for a living for for about 10 years as a journalist talking about other people's stories. Maybe this could be my opportunity to tell my story and to hopefully help some people with that.

Starting point is 00:52:44 Yeah, it's super cool. I always ask people. what they will really care about if they have the opportunity to be conscious that they only have 10 minutes to live, like the end of life. And it's an interesting question because what most people will say is that, you know, you'll probably just contemplate whether or not you mattered, you know, and you left a legacy or a footprint and things like that. So it seems like that's what this opportunity has freed you from. And it's interesting to watch the whole process. And I'm sure there's way more prior to becoming an anchor that's interesting about you. You're a human being. But it seems like you have a very, very cool opportunity. But at the same time, you know,

Starting point is 00:53:26 with that comes responsibility. And, you know, so like the show's not over. You know, the shows in many senses just beginning, you know, you've got an opportunity ahead of you. Here's a wild question. We live in a world where most people, whether they know it or not, are wearing a mask. You know, they're coming in and out of characters to, you know, get by and get ahead and fit in and all of that stuff. And very few people, and that's the way we started this conversation, get a chance to actually be themselves and feel comfortable with that and succeed in life. So do you feel like you were being Savannah on the island or, and I would assume that there's a mix in this answer, or do you feel like you're playing a character called Savannah that was designed to. win the game. Oh my gosh, what an incredible question. And I mean, you're right. It is a mix of both. I think that when you play the game inherently, everybody's going to have some sort of a mask up,

Starting point is 00:54:25 at least in front of their fellow castmates. The time where you really get to be yourself and take that mask off, which feels like such a relief, is in those confessionals that you have with production. And it's wild because at the end of 26 days, you like start to feel like these These producers are almost like your friends, your therapist. They're as close to, you know, someone who you can really lean on in some senses because you've opened up to them completely. Those producers, they know the real Savannah through and through. They know me at my best.

Starting point is 00:55:00 They know me at my not so best as well. And so those moments, I guess maybe, you know, 20, 30, maybe sometimes 40 minute long interviews with producers, that can be like almost like a cold. glass of water on a hot day when you're parched, you get that a little bit of relief in being able to show who you truly are. And it's such a wonderful thing out there. But when you're with your cast, because you want to be able to control your narrative, you never want to let your guard down completely. You're almost always having a sort of filter up, whether you're filtering for other people's information, whether you're filtering yourself to make sure that you don't disclose

Starting point is 00:55:36 too much information, whether it's in the words that you say, whether it's in your gestures or the eye movements that you're making. It's almost like there's constantly some sort of wall up, whether it's a brick wall or a little flimsy screen that is kind of up to you. But there's always going to be some sort of filter on yourself, at least with, I think, most of your cast. And as I got further and further through the season, as I started to lean on different allies and being more vulnerable, because I think that being vulnerable with people also is a way to draw people. to you and make them trust you more, that little wall started to fade and dissipate. But, I mean, to answer your question, it's really both. And I think that, you know, a lot of times

Starting point is 00:56:23 we live life like that as well. You know, if you think about how you show up and in work situations or even social situations, I think about when I was younger, I used to go to church quite often. And I always felt like I had, you know, as a teenager, kind of a filter on at church. when I was trying to explore, you know, maybe when I wasn't at church, you know, all of the things that life has to offer a teenager or a late teenager, I should say. And I would be very careful about, you know, having a mask on when I was at church. But, you know, that mask will show up no matter where you are. And I will say it's a lot more freeing when you take that mask off and people are able to see you for who you are. It brings a lot of relief, I think. There's a lot of people listening

Starting point is 00:57:10 right now that probably find themselves, like a lot of people, stuck between security and something that's calling them forward. That's a very, you know, kind of purgatory. If somebody feels that pull right now, because, you know, you're somebody, if you really peel it all back, you felt something and you felt a pull and you bet on yourself. So a lot of people say, yeah, that's a good idea. But They always bring their butt into it. So if somebody feels that pull, but they're still afraid to make that jump, what would you tell them about betting on themselves? Dude, honestly, life is too short. Like, I'm sorry, but like, fuck it.

Starting point is 00:57:50 And get over your ego. Get over yourself. Okay. Like, life is so short. You never know how long you're going to have. I could drop dead tomorrow. I really could. I mean, so could you.

Starting point is 00:57:59 Like, I hate thinking like that, but anything can happen. And the question we need to ask ourselves, is, is something were to happen tomorrow, would we be happy and fulfilled with the way that we're living life? Or do we wish we would have taken that step? Because I think a lot of times people operate with the mindset, why me, right? I think we need to operate instead with the mindset, why not me? Why couldn't I do this crazy thing? You know, I don't know. I wish more people would take risks and live without that fear. Or if there is fear, maybe instead of shying away from that fear leaning into it because ultimately it's leaning into that fear that's going to make us a stronger,

Starting point is 00:58:39 smarter, better person. And, you know, maybe you do fail. I fail that Survivor 50. That's okay. I still got an amazing experience out of it. And I mean, it was truly a gift, even if it doesn't end up the way that you really want. There's more than one way to win the game of Survivor, right? You can win by getting that check at the end or you can win by having an amazing experience. And life is so much like that as well. You don't necessarily need to be the best or to have, you know, X, Y, and Z to win. Sometimes winning is, you know, just the experience. You're reminding me of one of my favorite quotes because, I mean, for the most part, people are playing small. And I understand why they are. And they're living what I guess you would call a mediocre life and

Starting point is 00:59:23 calling it good enough, you know. One of my favorite quotes is that if you continue to lick the lullipop of mediocrity, you will suck forever. Oh, I love that. Where's that from? I think I made it up. I'm not sure. You should get that on a T-shirt. I would buy that. So just in closing, you know, my closing thoughts, and thanks so much for being here, you know, just my closing thoughts that will kind of put a bow on this is that it seems like you can either be worried about getting voted out in life, you know, and there's so many different ways of looking at that. and deciding based on that worry to not try, or you could be like Savannah Louis and bet on yourself. You have to.

Starting point is 01:00:10 You have to. I love that. You put it way better than I could. Thank you so much for being here. What a treat. And I have to say that, you know, I'm going to go back and rewrite the what I like about you segment. You know, when you, when you meet somebody, and this is just a compliment to you, when you meet somebody that's played that role, And also is now experiencing a little bit of fame and getting a lot of attention.

Starting point is 01:00:36 You kind of have this preconceived notion that they're going to be a little snotty and a little full of themselves and stuff. But it's pretty obvious to me why you won the game. And I think that no matter how deceptive you were and all of that stuff, I think that it was probably refreshing for people to realize, like, you're just a real person that happened to be, you know, less worried about what everybody thought. And I think there's a little bit of a respect thing that makes people say, yeah, she deserves it.

Starting point is 01:01:07 Thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. Seriously, it means the world. Thank you. Where should we direct people that want to join the massive amount of people that are stalking you right now? Where should people go to learn more about you? You know, I have a couple of projects in the works, but I would say for now the best way to follow me And to keep up with all the good stuff that I have coming up is honestly on Instagram.

Starting point is 01:01:33 My handle is Saves, which is spelled S-A-H-H-V-Z or TikTok as well. But Instagram is really where it's at. This is Savannah Louie with Survivor 49 and 50. And this podcast makes sense. That's it for today. To support the Make Sense with Dr. J-C podcast, be sure to subscribe, like, and share, as well as follow the Make Sense substack for free daily quotes. live streams and blogs.

Starting point is 01:01:59 And remember, learning without action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learn something today, give it away. That's the only way it's going to stay. See you next time. Makes sense.

Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - How Quitting Your Dream Job Can Make You a Millionaire - E167

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