Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - Making Sense of A Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. Dornick podcast. This podcast covers topics that expand human consciousness and performance. On the Make Sense podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works, and that perception is a subjective and acquired taste. What we know is that when you change the way you look at things, the things that you look at begin to change. Welcome to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. Dornick podcast.

Starting point is 00:00:37 Make sense. Great morning humans. Great morning world. This would be your boy, Dr. J.C. Dornick, aka. The Dragon. And welcome to another episode of the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. Very excited to be here today. And I just want to kind of throw a little bit of a reminder as to the live component of this show.

Starting point is 00:01:02 because a lot of people ask me what that's about. Because as you know, the makes sense with Dr. J.C. podcast is the primary goal here. We're going to record another episode of the podcast, but the question is, why do you do it live? That's exposure therapy. If you want to have some fun with transparency right now, like so many people, I struggled with anxiety, deep, deep anxiety. And it was always centered around foster syndrome and all of that stuff associated with public speaking. Right. So I must be a masochistic because I have chosen public speaking on many, many levels,

Starting point is 00:01:38 podcasting and public speaking, getting on big stages and such as my career. That's why I do this live. So what's in it for you is you get to be here with me as I record this podcast episode with the high chance of experiencing mistakes. Sound problems. I might say something wrong and have to do it again. I just think that it's exciting. Today, we are. are going to review another book. This whole idea of taking Mondays and reviewing books is just kind of like me paying something forward to you because I read about a book a week. And I've been reviewing books that I've read in the past lately, but I'm just constantly reading new books. I just love, love, love to read. Big shout out to my friend Jim Quick. Hung out with him yesterday

Starting point is 00:02:25 and so much gratitude for him teaching me how to speed read, but also try to. dramatically improve my memory recall to the point where I read about 52 books a year, what I do is take pretty much all of that information that I'm inspired by that elicits that creative process and make my podcast episodes and most of my writing about. And that uncovers the truth that there's nothing new. There's nothing new out there. I was just talking to someone this morning. They reminded me that this concept of talking about the things that make you go,

Starting point is 00:02:58 hmm, comes from the CNC music factory. But here I am thinking that I have this genius idea of saying, hmm, but I have to give that credit to the CNC Music Factory. In any case, let's get started with this. And I want to share with you something that I did this morning just quickly, part of the exposure therapy. As most of you know, I wear my glasses all the time, my special glasses that have no lenses. And I recognized that I was developing a comfort zone around my glasses. I don't know if you can relate to that. It's a cool thing to do to assess yourself today and identify anything that you're comfortable with.

Starting point is 00:03:34 Even though my glasses have no lenses, that's what makes my glasses unique. My makes sense glasses. What's interesting about these glasses and the fact that they have no lenses is I can actually see better with that. And when I started to notice that I can see better with glasses that I have no lenses, I know that there's this whole fun thing that I talk about about how I'm in control of my perception and change the way you look at things and all that. but I can actually see better with these glasses on. So that made me realize that I was probably getting very comfortable. So I chose, because I'm a little bit sick, I chose to start today's episode off without wearing the glasses.

Starting point is 00:04:10 And it made me feel very uncomfortable, which is what my goal was. So in any case, I'm going to put them on now. And another thing that's cool about wearing glasses without lenses is that this light that I have in front of me does not cause glare. And if I have an itch, I can always itch them through. Whenever someone says, why do you have no lenses in your glasses? I said, because I don't need them anymore. That's my cool answer. Today we are going to do a little make sense summary of one of the all-time

Starting point is 00:04:37 greatest books. My daughter just read this book. And that is a man's search for meaning by the amazing Victor Frankel. Spelt V-I-K-T-O-R-F-R-A-N-K-L. No E, the amazing Victor Frankel. We're going to take a look at this book and this book is life-changing. I'm just going to share a little bit of information on the book. Why is it that some people rise above suffering while others stay stuck? This is one of the most curious perceptions and observations I have of human beings. Not that it happens, but why. I'm very, very curious to know why. Some people rise up above suffering and pass through adversity and some just apparently choose to stay stuck. there as victims. What if I told you that how you interpret life's events determines whether you

Starting point is 00:05:29 remain trapped or break free from the pain? What do I say all the time? If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. So the next time that you feel the pain and suffering and being a victim of circumstance, if you could just pull that out, that sentence, what if I told you that it's how you interpret life's events that determines whether you remain trapped in the pain, or break free. This book is a slice of delicious pizza for somebody that's trapped in the pain. This is some really good shift. So in today's episodes, we're going to dive deep into Victor Frankl's legendary book, A Man's Search for Meaning, and uncovering how finding meaning in suffering can change your life forever. You're going to notice in this episode that you have a lot

Starting point is 00:06:15 of anecdotes that you use for yourself in this idea of like learning from our challenges and mistakes and adversities. A lot of that stuff comes from this amazing man. I'm also going to share Frankl's revolutionary method called Logo Therapy. And I'm also going to include a unique technique that is like a practical application that you can go around and play with right away called paradoxical intention. These things are going to help you reclaim and claim control of your responses and find purpose in any situation. And it's important that you hear what I said, any, even yours, even the one that you currently think is special and unique. So let's dive in. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. This podcast covers topics that expand human consciousness and performance.

Starting point is 00:07:03 On the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works. And that perception like Guinness Beer is an acquired taste. It's subjective by nature. When you change the way you look at things, the things that you look at begin to change. Welcome to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses and welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. What is this book about? Here's a quote from him. The meaning of life is to give life meaning.

Starting point is 00:07:33 Oh, what a goal to set. And that's not something you have to wait for. You can start giving things meaning right now by just asking the right questions. Victor Frankel, a psychiatrist and Holocaust survivor, he endured three years in four different Nazi camps. Now, when you move from one. Nazi death camp to another, that means that whatever roots you had set up for survival, whether you've lost your family, you had friends or anything like that, you lose them.

Starting point is 00:08:01 So it's a constant. And the most well-known camp he spent time in was Auschwitz, and that was just a terrible place, losing his parents, his wife, and most of his loved ones immediately. So he was forced to comply with horrific circumstances like everyone else that were opposed on him by the SS, the Nazi soldiers, as well as the so-called capos, which were the prisoners in these death camps that received special privileges in return for helping the soldiers. I guess we would call them the sellouts. But Frankel shares that those capos, isn't this ironic? And the reason why I'm setting the stage like this is because when you look at your current suffering, the things

Starting point is 00:08:42 that you're trying to find meaning in, it's important to understand the extent of his suffering before I teach you some of his stuff. Not only all of the stories about the Nazi soldiers, but he said the Capos, these actual Jewish prisoners that were in the camps that were given special privileges, were actually even more sadistic on many levels than the Nazis. How low can you go?

Starting point is 00:09:06 Here's an insight that I came up. If we look at our lives in society today, and this would be a self-reflection for you, we see a lot of people walking around trying to find their own meaning and purpose in a world that seems to be plotting against them. This is what it means to be a victim of circumstance, especially when you're a victim of the universe itself.

Starting point is 00:09:26 A world that seems to be plotting against them and leaving them behind. I mean, the world is moving fast. It's very, very common that people are trying to figure out their identity. They're being left behind. One could not even remotely compare the struggles of the modern-day Westerner, of those that suffered the terrible realities in the Nazi death camps. Oddly enough, we find people walking, around today in this day and age with the same existential questions that the people in the death

Starting point is 00:09:54 camps had to have. Remember, these people were trying to find a reason to just get through the day. And there's some interesting observations Frankl had of that. Isn't it interesting to note how we're doing the same thing? The same existential questions. And we have similar reasons for giving up on life altogether, which unfortunately we're seeing over and over again. Identity crisis. And people just saying there's no reason to live. So when we're trapped in what Victor Frankel calls an existential vacuum, and an existential vacuum is this place where there's no light at the end of the tunnel. All you're sucking in in this existential vacuum is what is going on on the outside, rather than practicing something like gratitude or finding the meaning in just the simple things.

Starting point is 00:10:40 What awaits people in that existential vacuum is nothing but despair. And you see that. and you might be experiencing that yourself. So the good news is that we're going to give you some good shift today and you're going to just be able to reframe and refocus. Despite the unimaginable suffering, he made a profound discovery while he was there. Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing. I love that statement. Everything can be taken from a person but one thing. It just reminds me that everything does not include the one thing. The last of all human freedom, and that is to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's way.

Starting point is 00:11:26 Can that be taken away? You can create the perception that you have no choice. I have no choice in the matter. But do you ever lose the choice to choose how you will look at something your way? So Frankel observed that those that survived in these death camps, were not necessarily the strongest or the most resilient, but those who could find meaning in their suffering. And this is the lesson.

Starting point is 00:11:49 I was so proud of my daughter for reading this book because what a great life lesson to teach your kids. We can teach our kids that you're going to fail forward and the obstacles away and all that. But you know what? When you're in the obstacle or in the failure or the setback or the letdown, it's hard to remember that lesson. But if you can teach a kid to search for meaning,

Starting point is 00:12:10 find the lesson and things like that, almost as an investigator or a detective of meaning, that's a great, great tool. As a doctor, Frankl found meaning and purpose in providing care for his fellow inmates. So he's in there getting tortured just like everyone thinking every day is his last. But what he did was he took on the role because he had a skill set, as everyone does, to nurture and care for his fellow inmates. In fact, in his book, you learn about a story. was an opportunity, a great opportunity, for Frankl to escape the death camps. It was well thought out

Starting point is 00:12:46 and it was well executed and Frankl was in on it. But Frankl chose to stay behind because his patients needed his care, which he was willing to die for. Talk about finding a meaning. Look at your life right now. Do you have something that means so much to you? Like for me, it's my children, right? being their father that you would die for it? Because that's all I need to go on. What about you? So, Frankel noted a common characteristic on the other hand, and this is the other people, that he saw collapse, you know, and fall prey to the harsh conditions as victims, which I would assume is pretty easy to do. He noticed that they had a sense of identifying there being nothing more to expect from their life, which naturally was followed by death. His experience led him to develop

Starting point is 00:13:35 something called Logo Therapy. And that is a psychological approach that teaches that the search for meaning is the primary force of driving human behavior. So what is Logotherapy? He developed it, and it was a form of existential therapy that helps individuals overcome suffering by discovering purpose and meaning in their lives. Unlike Freud's psychoanalysis, which suggests that human behavior is actually driven by the pursuit of pleasure, and we get very confused with that. We run from pain and we seek pleasure. So that's Freud's. Frankel argues that the deepest human drive is the need to find meaning. Why would this be so fascinating to me? When I first learned about Logo Therapy, I had already been working for years on my book. Makes sense. And this whole concept in the interface response system.

Starting point is 00:14:24 So when I learned about this and his explanation, it further validated my theory, which is very similar, that all humans have this deep desire and intrinsic motivation to understand and make sense of things. If you go back to my story and how I survived, you know, the pending doom of suicide and darkness and many, many trials and tribulations in my life, the way that I got through those was to find meaning, or as I say, to make sense of things. And once I experienced the light from that darkness that I was in, I made a decision to never go back. and spend the rest of my life helping others make sense of things. So that's my work. So there's three core tenets to Frankl's Logo Therapy, and here they are. Life has meaning in all circumstances. And it's important to take a stand there, all circumstances. Even in suffering,

Starting point is 00:15:18 we can find purpose. And that's why it's important to know his story, because his suffering is very hard to match. I know that emotional suffering is tragic. I've experienced it. But if you know about Victor Frankel, you're going to be able to reflect on that. The second tenet of Logotherapy, our primary motivation is to find meaning. The search for meaning drives us, not pleasure or power. So if you ever find yourself driven by pleasure or power, what that's insinuating is not that that's a bad thing, but you might want to pause on that and ask yourself, what is it that I really, really want? And a great way to reframe that is I always ask people in the last 10 minutes of your life, what will you look back on in your life and evaluate as a metric to determine if you lived a good life?

Starting point is 00:16:07 You'll be thinking, did I make my time count? You will not think about your money. Maybe you'll think about the legacy you're leaving behind for your kids, but you will be looking at the footprint that you leave behind. So I just want to remind all of you right now that you are creating and developing that footprint right now. Perhaps that will change the way you look at this day. So the third one, The third tenet of Logotherapy, we have the freedom to find meaning. You're allowed to question and dispute and contemplate everything and anyone and anything to find meaning. No matter what happens, we can choose how we respond to life's challenges. This is the whole premise of the interface response system that I teach.

Starting point is 00:16:47 Let's talk about how Logo Therapy can help you overcome suffering. Franco believe that suffering, and a lot of people talk about suffering, I love Eckhart-Tole's stuff on suffering. So Franco believe that suffering becomes unbearable only when it's meaningless. Oh, I love that so much. If I make you go do something, you're going to suffer. But as soon as you find a reason to believe that it has meaning, the suffering decreases. If we can assign meaning to our hardships, we gain the ability to endure them and even transform them into sources of strength. The Stoics spoke a lot about this stuff, right? Voluntary discomfort. So there's a big difference between, discomfort and voluntary discomfort. So if I force you to go into a cold plunge, you're going to suffer more than if you voluntarily do it. That's the value of voluntary discomfort. You can actually

Starting point is 00:17:39 become a source of your strength. Frankl found meaning in his suffering through several key perspectives. So here's how he found meaning. This is the question everybody. How did he do it? How did he not set up camp and be a victim of that like most people? And I'm not putting those people down. I don't know how I would have responded. I hope that I would respond like Victor Frankel. But here's how he found meeting. Finding purpose in the pain. He had to find some purpose in the pain.

Starting point is 00:18:03 He saw the suffering as a test of his ability to practice what he believed, that even in the most inhumane conditions, one can maintain dignity, hope, and inner freedom. He took it on as a challenge, like training, like doing push-ups to build your muscles. Second, serving others. Another meaning he found. Rather than succumbing to despair, he focused on helping other prisoners find strength and will to live, demonstrating that meaning could be found in service to others, even in a place designed to strip all meaning away. He took a stand against what they were trying to do and just strip him of all of his dignity and meaning,

Starting point is 00:18:43 created it on his own. And nobody could take that away from him and nobody can take it away from you. Three, mental escape and future vision. Frankl imagined himself giving lectures about his experiences. He had a future destination that was attractive, helping future generations learn about these atrocities and how to manage them. This visualization gave him a reason to endure reinforcing the idea that suffering has a meaning when tied to a greater purpose. We see that all the time.

Starting point is 00:19:15 This is just delicious. The fourth one, love as a source of strength. He spoke a lot about the power of love. His thoughts of his wife, Tilly, and the love that they shared, became a source of endurance. Even though he did not know her fate, and unfortunately she died, the love he felt was enough to sustain him. He just basked in the glory of his love for his wife without having her around and not even knowing if she was alive.

Starting point is 00:19:44 It showed him that meaning can be found in connections and transcend physical circumstances. The fifth and final one that helped him find meaning, choosing how to suffer. He claimed control of choosing how to suffer. Franco realized that suffering itself is neutral. This is a challenging thing for you to consider. And its weight depends on the meaning that we assign to it. If one sees suffering as random and pointless, it becomes unbearable. But if one sees it as part of the greater journey, this is a big thing with me.

Starting point is 00:20:16 When I get scared, like I always do with public. speaking, or when I go through tough times and I go through them every day, and I can look at them as a necessary ingredient for the recipe that I'm trying to construct, it changes everything. That's the idea of changing the way you look at things. That's what the interface response systems for. So it can become a catalyst for growth and inner strength. Interesting to look at suffering as something that can be a catalyst for growth and inner strength. So Franco often spoke a lot about the attitude we take towards unavoidable suffering. Evaluate things that you can see are unavoidable. Unavoidable suffering. And it plays a major role in discovering the meaning of our life and circumstances.

Starting point is 00:20:56 So in my own observation, one of the hardest obstacles for someone to overcome is their sense of entitlement in choosing to look at their circumstances from the perspective as a victim. Grab that. Infused with the cognitive bias that we form around it to look at their circumstances and entertain the alternate side. They won't allow themselves to see the other side because they've tethered themselves to their circumstances. They set up camp below the line of responsibility, and the responsibility they have is that of the choice of how they want to look at things. It's their party, and they will cry if they want to. Now, I just want to make sure you understand, I'm not poking fun or putting people down that suffer. I'm just reminding people that

Starting point is 00:21:45 that there's a choice. That's it. But it is your party, and you can cry if you want to. So when we find ourselves in situations we can't change, as the circumstances are beyond our control, which happens a lot, it will happen today. We're forced to change ourselves and the way that we look at things. Make sense? So that's it. That's your choice. One of the most unique techniques that he spoke about in Logotherapy is something called paradoxical intention, which teaches patients to embrace their fears instead of resisting them. This is a tool for your belt. Paradoxical intention means the counterintuitive technique.

Starting point is 00:22:22 That's what he called it. It was a counterintuitive technique. Think about what intuition tells you to do. It's a counterintuitive technique for changing the way that we look at things. When I learned about paradoxical intention, I realized where it fit into my system, and that is in the processing, assessing phase. So what is a paradox?

Starting point is 00:22:42 A paradox by Webster's dictionary. says that it's a statement that is seemingly contradictory or opposed to common sense, yet is perhaps true. It's something that everything tells you is not true, but it's perhaps true. It's entertaining that word, maybe. So I love to tell people when they ask me my opinion that I haven't made up my mind about anything other than that, that I haven't made up my mind about anything. And the reason why I practiced that is because I like to look at all sides,

Starting point is 00:23:13 drives my wife crazy. So the strategies suggest that instead of trying to suppress their fears and anxieties, patients are encouraged to exaggerate them on purpose. By doing so, they take away the power and break the cycle of the fear and avoidance. We know that if we think there's a monster in the closet or under the bed and we don't face it, it gets bigger and stronger. So this acknowledges that our fears, worries, and concerns only have the power that we give them by labeling them as such. fears, worries, and concerns. So here's some examples. If someone has insomnia due to anxiety about not sleeping, they are encouraged to try to stay awake as long as possible instead of forcing sleep. That would be a paradoxical intention. If someone fears blushing in public and getting

Starting point is 00:24:01 blotches on their neck, I've been there, they're instructed to actually try to blush and try to elicit sweat and blotches on your neck even more when they feel it coming. If someone suffers as another example in public speaking and anxiety, that was me, they are told to deliberately try to suffer or make a mistake on purpose. This was a big one. When I got to the place where I let go of my worry and concern of making mistakes, I was free as I feel right now speaking to you or whoever, letting go of everything.

Starting point is 00:24:39 And the way that I did that is I allowed myself to make mistakes. I actually made it part of it. I could at any time just make a funny sound or just blah. So a more subtle example of this is the practice of allowing yourself to even entertain the other side of your fear by saying this. What would it look like if that which I fear became that which I desire? Now, if you look at that and say, that's foolish, I would never do that. Well, remember, that's a choice. We get to choose our hard.

Starting point is 00:25:12 By embracing the fear instead of resisting it, the emotional pressure dissolves and the anxiety often disappears. So, Frankel talked a lot about the space between the stimulus and the response, and that was the key to freedom. So his most famous quote was one that said this, between the stimulus and the response, something that happens, the happening, the event, and your response to it is the space that he's referring to. In that space is our power to choose our responses. and in our response lies growth and freedom. So this is where true transformation takes place in the space. So one of the tools that I love to hand people is a system of getting into the space, but you have to practice it.

Starting point is 00:25:56 So when something painful or challenging happens, whether it's trauma, loss, or betrayal, our natural reaction is to feel anger, fear, and confusion. That's the intuitive, natural, normal reaction. But if we can learn to put a pause on those feelings, we acknowledge those thoughts and feelings. It's thought management. We put a pause on them and sit in that space that comes right on the other side of the pause. What we do is we gain the ability to respond with wisdom and logic and rationale rather than react impulsively. You see, the interface response system is a system of acknowledging the whole impulsive nature of our response system.

Starting point is 00:26:40 and also acknowledging where it came from, from our mother, father, teacher, preacher. If you can acknowledge that, it validates the idea of putting it on pause. So this directly, this whole system he talks about, directly aligns and validates the four-step process that I call the interface response system. As a quick reminder, it starts off with perception,

Starting point is 00:26:59 taking note of the program nature of your brain. The second step would be, based on that validation of the program nature of your brain, pausing, that's cognitive distancing, and that's creating space between the stuff, stimulus and your reaction. So there's the validation. The third one is process, making an assessment while in that space and giving something meaning that supports growth or doesn't, identifying if we control it or not. Does it matter or not? Is it about them or me? And we talk about the sorting

Starting point is 00:27:28 filter in that space. And then the fourth step is what we call proceed. So these are the four piece, taking action in a way that aligns with our highest self, which we get to choose, which you don't have to be right about. It could just be right at that time. Step three, processing and assessing of the IRS would be where you'd give something meaning in connection with what Frankel was teaching. So here's some practical action steps as we come to a close. How to apply Frankl's teachings today and every day. So what I would do with practical action steps is I would write them down as things to play with and practice today. So the first one, practice the space between stimulus and response. Practice saying, hmm. And

Starting point is 00:28:09 remember, hmm, is spelled HMM, which stands for, I haven't made my mind up about it yet. When you hear me say I haven't made up my mind, I'm practicing the space between. I'm checking everything, even things that I know for sure I'm right, especially those things. So the second practical action step, assign meaning to pass struggle. This is a great one. You know, we're trying to resolve childhood trauma. So another way of doing that would be to assign meaning. Take a painful experience and ask what did it.

Starting point is 00:28:39 I learned from that. Shift your focus from what happened to me to how did it happen for me. Difficult. Easier said than done, but better done than just said. Three, use logo therapy to find meaning in hardship. Identify how you can grow from a challenge rather than be defeated by it. Just play with it. Ask yourself. Ask yourself, how can this experience make me stronger? I love that question. Four, use paradoxical intention to reframe your fear. Next time you feel anxious, lean into the feeling rather than run from it. If you fear failure, try to fail. Rewrite your story.

Starting point is 00:29:16 Rewrite your identity through meaning. Stop seeing yourself as a victim of the past. Instead, try and practice seeing yourself as someone who grew, learned, and overcame. Rewrite the story. Just pick up a pen and rewrite the story. And you can just start off by saying, what if it looked like this? So here are my final dragon thoughts. meaning is the key to freedom.

Starting point is 00:29:38 The philosophy of Victor Frankel could perhaps be summarized like this. Finding something to live and even die for transforms a meaningless, hopeless existence into a life worth living, regardless of any circumstance. Hence, in the book, Frankl quotes Nietzsche. I think it's Nietzsche or Nietzsche. He who has a why to live can bear almost anyhow. Now, when you hear these things, you go, make sense, make sense. But it's in the application.

Starting point is 00:30:10 Re-listen to this, go over those practical action steps, and put them into play. Life isn't about what happens to you, my friend. It's about how you make sense of it and how you show up. Victor Frankel's greatest lesson is that even in the worst circumstances, we can choose our response. And that choice determines whether we stay trapped in the suffering or break free and we break free through meaning. Nobody can take this power of your choice away in any situation,

Starting point is 00:30:41 and they can't take away your perspective. You can just allow them to have a say in it. Nobody can take that away from you. So the next time life throws you a challenge, remember, you are not powerless, you can choose how to respond, and you can find meaning, and in that meaning, you will find your freedom. Make sense?

Starting point is 00:30:59 Love and appreciate you all. This was a fun one. I love this book. I would run to the store. You know, and this is probably somehow squeaking into my top five. My daughter read it and it made total sense to her and it's just helped her reevaluate everything. So go right out there and get this book. I'll have the link to the book, my show notes and a lot of other cool stuff.

Starting point is 00:31:21 Remember, this podcast is sponsored by the Make Sense Academy, our private community, where we take people that are just simply going through life and we help them start growing through life. And also you can subscribe to my free substack. my make sense substack for your daily dose of consciousness around the things that make you go, hmm. So love and appreciate you. And remember if you learn something today, give it away because it's only that way that it will stay.

Starting point is 00:31:47 Love and appreciate you and enjoy your day. Hey, that was a new rhyme. Bye-bye now. Makes sense.

Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - Making Sense of A Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

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