Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - Making Sense of A Second Chance On Love with Jenny and Bryan Drollinger - Episode 104

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. This podcast covers topics that expand human consciousness and performance. On the Make Sense podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works, and that perception is a subjective and acquired taste. When you change the way that you look at things, the things that you look at begin to change. The Make Sense podcast is sponsored and primarily funded by the Make Sense Academy, our private community where open and curious seekers of growth and expansion apply the make sense principles and systems to move from simply going through life to growing through life. So check out the Make Sense Academy risk-free for less than you'll spend today on shit that you don't need. Welcome, my friends, to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses. Welcome to the Make Sense with

Starting point is 00:00:53 Dr. J.C. Dornick podcast. Sometimes. Sometimes. life writes love stories so unexpected, you couldn't make them up if you tried. Today's guests, Jenny and Brian Drollinger, know precisely what it means to become lost, and then, against all odds, be found. Years ago, Brian and Jenny were young, in love, and full of possibility. But, like so many other couples, life had other plans. at a time where dating was limited to in-person communication and catching somebody at the right time on a landline, a few simple misses turned into misunderstandings. Brian followed his path as a devout Mormon, got married, raised a family of seven, and built a successful career.

Starting point is 00:01:53 Simultaneously, Jenny married and settled into a marriage that blessed her with two beautiful children, Yet, there was an absence of that loving feeling she once dreamed of. Life brought challenges for both of them, including failed expectations and the deep struggle of trying to hold it altogether, especially when marriage is intertwined with faith, community, and awareness that their lives were being spent more on the worst side of for better or worse. Then came the unthinkable. Brian's marriage ended, leaving him in one of the darkest and most challenging spaces of his life, financially, emotionally, and spiritually. Simultaneously, as fate would have it, Jenny's marriage was ending as well, facing her own heartbreaks and growing pains. And then, the universe intervened. A random reconnection occurred when Brian, needing an attorney, found himself seeking a consultation with the firm's paralegal. Her name? Jenny. sparks flared and a realization that both of their winding messy painful roads had prepared them for

Starting point is 00:03:09 this a second chance on love the one that they both once shared now through their new podcast a second chance on love as well as their upcoming book that's been made for a movie brian and jenny Drollinger are opening up about their journey, their lessons, and their hope for anyone out there who's wondering if it's too late to rewrite their love story. Please welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, Brian and Jenny Dr.Longer. This is a unique episode for many reasons. I mean, these are actual personal friends of mine. We have a lot of history together and they have this beautiful story. Maybe even as beautiful as our story, we're not sure yet. What's interesting about it is typically we go into like these philosophical like wormholes into, you know,

Starting point is 00:03:58 deep thought and making sense of things. But this one is is one that I think hits home with a lot of people. And that is this idea of making sense of a second chance on love. I think love is such a important thing. So I want to welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, Brian and Jenny Dr. Hollander. How are you guys doing? Doing great. Thanks for having us on. What I'd love to do, I'd love to deep dive into this. And I'm so fascinated with this idea. There's elements of faith and hope. And there's so many people out there that maybe like myself at one time of my life

Starting point is 00:04:31 have just given up. And so many people have just said like, this is all there is. And once again, you know, accepted their situation. So what I'd love to do, and I, you know, Brian is somebody that I consider family. I've known Brian and we've worked together for so, so long. And he's got an amazing story. and I know a lot of Brian's story. Brian, I don't know if we want to do ladies first,

Starting point is 00:04:53 but what I would love to do is just get a little bit of a background. Maybe we can get the short story. We're going to go back to when you guys tell me about your childhood when you knew each other. But just tell me a little bit about both of your relationship experience before the second chance. It started actually 40 years ago in 85, 1985. And my best friend was dating her best friend.

Starting point is 00:05:17 We were at rival high schools, up in Alaska. And she actually came up to Alaska. It was a year before. Yeah. And she'd been in Utah the whole time in her life. But she came to Alaska. She's only there for a few years. I kind of jokingly say, that's why you came up to Alaska was to meet me. We were introduced at a dance in 85, a high school dance. And we hung up for a couple of years. And that's the thing that I think was the glue for all four of us because we belong to the same religion, the same faith. And so even though we went to where I have a high schools and lived an hour apart, we kept in touch through the activities, through the church. You guys met at a dance?

Starting point is 00:05:55 High school dance. High school dance. How do high schools that are an hour from one another, first of all, I can get the rivalry thing, but like how do you guys have a dance together? It was the 80s. Everybody danced. It was like there was a song. I know dancing.

Starting point is 00:06:09 I used to break. And what was actually going on, J.C.'s back a little further is I was the new girl in town. And so I was 15 years old. I was dating a 21-year-old guy. And he was from Germany, had an accent, and he wore makeup. He looked like Nick Rose from Duran Duran. I would have dated him. So my best friend, Debbie, who I was sharing a locker with at the time, she said,

Starting point is 00:06:32 so my boyfriend has a really cute friend and he has a nice car. And he's coming to the dance on Friday. And Brian is more our age. She said that just like, he's more our age. So what if we invite him and you can meet him? She's like, I think you'd like him. And so that's how we met. And then I was in the process of dumping Mike to pursue Brian.

Starting point is 00:06:54 But Brian didn't understand what was going on. And so he got upset with me because he saw me with Mike at homecoming. And Brian invited himself to homecoming. And I was trying to get rid of Mike so I could be with Brian. And Brian got mad and drove away and left. And there we go. This is so Brian, I can understand. This is a lot of.

Starting point is 00:07:12 Yeah. Just give me because we're going to, we're flashing past this like almost thing. that happened. So what happened in your eyes at that moment, Brian? What's your side of the story? There was a lot of different things going on. We actually were dating. Our best friends were boyfriend, girlfriend. We were not. So not yet. So we were all, we were like I was always driving in the car. They were always making out in the back. And we would just, we would get to know each other. But there was all these high school games kind of going on. Like she would dance with other boys and I would get jealous. He would say, don't go dance with those boys.

Starting point is 00:07:48 But then they came and asked me and I'm like, well, this was at a church dance that this happened. And so he's like, don't go over there. Don't go dance with those guys. Well, my dad was like the leader of the church, the bishop. And I'm like, I have to go be nice to them. And they go to my high school. And I have to see them in the hallways. Anyway, I was just trying to be nice, but he didn't like that.

Starting point is 00:08:09 And he drove away and left me at the dance again. Here's something interesting. We're going to jump around a little bit. when we look at this idea of a second chance on love, what you guys are bringing to the surface right now, timing is a big part of it. It's like you guys maybe look at each other back then and say we weren't ready for each other on either sides.

Starting point is 00:08:29 You know, when we got one. That's true. She's a guy from Duran Duran, and Brian is like, you know, so it's interesting how the universe works, but the universe gave you guys signs to say that it wasn't necessarily. not right because the feelings were there, right? But it was timing, right? But did you guys ever date at all or no? Well, yeah, but this is the, this is the side part. I'm sorry, I'm going to interject. We were sitting alone in Brian's car and he handed me his classroom. And he was like, here.

Starting point is 00:09:01 And that's how he used to ask someone to go steady and be. And I wasn't understanding what he was doing. And he was like, I never wear this. And he handed it to me. And I'm like, okay? And then I gave it back to him call me blonde i don't know but i was like um and then i'm like is he trying to ask me to go steady but in his shyness he was very shy and quiet in high school so shy yeah so we'd go to high school games jerry his best friend was like the quarterback and score yeah and football and we'd all be yay you know and brian's all sitting down here like this and we're like come on stand up with us cheer him on and he used this all quiet there was a lot of misunderstandings and overthinking and for example, the one time at the dance where I went and danced with Shane O'Neill and he got mad and left.

Starting point is 00:09:45 I called Brian the next day and I said, Brian, will you please come to the next dance? I need to talk to you face to face. I don't want to have any misunderstandings. I like you and we just need to chat. And back then, it was long distance to call. And so my mom gave me 15 minutes to talk to him. So I had 15 minutes. And in 15 minutes, I couldn't tell him how I felt. So I dumped the other guys. I was ready to go forward with him. So the next dance comes that Saturday night and I'm waiting for him. and I'm waiting for him and I'm so excited. And he walks in with a date. And he looks, scans the whole gym and he's like, and he sees me and he gets this big smile.

Starting point is 00:10:20 Like, I came to the dance in your face. So there we are. There was back and forth. All the time. Quite a bit. Until 1987. And then I left. I graduated from high school.

Starting point is 00:10:31 She was a year younger. So I graduated high school. And I moved down to California. I went on a mission for my church. And I was there for. I was there for two years and Jenny was writing me back and forth. She went, she moved back down to Utah. I was going to school and working and stuff.

Starting point is 00:10:50 And we used to write, not only write, we would, we would do talk tapes. Like a cassette tapes, back and forth. Back and forth. Through the mouth. And then I would also, since I write music, I would also write songs. And then I would. And I just hold you for a second, just in case. So a cassette tape is a rectangular piece of plastic that used to have these.

Starting point is 00:11:10 We have one to do it. Kind of like an old movie theater with like tape on it, but it played music. Go ahead. You're making me feel really old, J.C. So we do that. And we actually have a lot of the letters. We have, I think we've counted like 30 or 40 letters. We were back and forth to each other.

Starting point is 00:11:30 So we really liked each other. And when I was on my mission and when I got home. Oh, and you know what? Let me interject this too, really quick. Because we found one of the letters that I wrote to him. It was so sad because there was someone that was pursuing me. I was uncomfortable. And I wrote Brian a letter saying, telling him about it.

Starting point is 00:11:46 I was like, what should I do? Should I tell him? And then my friend Debbie, my best friend says, you know, he'll find out through someone else if you don't tell him through the mail. And then he's going to think you're playing games again with these other guys. So you just be straight forward with him. The honest tell him. So I was brutally honest.

Starting point is 00:12:01 I don't know how to tell you this, but this guy wants to marry me. And I don't think I'm ready. I'm too young. I just graduated blah, blah, blah. And I was like, please help me, Brian. What do I do? Unfortunately, he's on a mission and he can't expose his feelings because he's thinking about Jesus. So Jesus has played a role in messing this up a little bit.

Starting point is 00:12:23 He just sent me a letter back like, pray about it. I'm like, okay, that's okay, all right. But either way, what I think is cool and cute is that like there were so many reasons for you guys on both ends. You guys couldn't shut it down. You liked each other either way. There's a little bit of jealousy and stuff like that. So I'm just foreshadowing how later on in life this whole idea of the second chance, I would assume that you guys went on in life not forgetting about each other.

Starting point is 00:12:53 Well, the whole thing happened in 1989 when he got off his mission, his parents relocated to Oregon. So he called me the night he got home. I was in college in Salt Lake City. He called me that night. And he told me he was home. Like this is so weird. I don't know anybody. I'm coming to Salt Lake and I really want to see you. And so I'm like, I want to see you too. A week and a half later, this was December because I was just getting done with finals. He called me from a family member's home that lived in the valley there in Salt Lake somewhere. He doesn't remember them. But he said, I'm at a family's house. I car pulled. I don't have a car yet. I'm with other young adults that are picking up other students to come home from Christmas break from BYU. I was like, oh, he's like, I'll call you in the morning to tell you what time and where. to meet me because he was shopping songs. He was going to a recording studio. And he told me kind of the area that it was in. And I was like, oh, okay, I worked downtown at the mall and it's right there.

Starting point is 00:13:47 It's Salt Lake. So yeah, I can meet you. That'd be great. And so the next morning, I didn't hear from him. And I'm like in the phone. The phone was disconnect. Long story short, my roommates, there were six of us girls back in those days. One person had the have the utilities in her name. And she didn't pay the phone, We were roomies since September, this was December. We were always writing a check to her and her name. I don't want to say her name. Instead of US-West Communications, it was to her personal check. And our phone bill was always like my phone bill every month was $300 because I was calling my parents in Alaska.

Starting point is 00:14:24 Long distance was expensive back then. So if you waited until after 8 p.m., the rates would go down and my mom would be like, call me later. But anyway, my parents would send me the money for the phone bill and I would just write that check for 300. dollars to Lisa every month plus four of us other roommate. So it all started making sense when the phone was dead and it was disconnected. And back then in those days, when the phone was disconnected, you make to make the call to that number, it would say this number is disconnected. No further information is available. So if Brian was trying to call me to tell me where to meet, I was like, oh my gosh, he's going to think I did this on purpose. That's not how I used to block people because

Starting point is 00:15:01 our phone numbers weren't connected to all these apps and services and things that we do nowadays. And so I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to go find him. So I remember running down South Temple. I went past the cathedral of the Madeline. It was this beautiful Catholic church. And the bell was tolling noon. And it started raining. And I was running. And I'm like praying. Oh, gosh, you know, I, I've got to find him because he's going to think that I'm playing games again. And so I go down there to the area I thought he was at. And I'd never found him. And I looked for him for like two and a half, two hours. And then I had to get to work. And then even then, when I got to work, I went through the white pages of the phone book, the old fashion phone book,

Starting point is 00:15:40 to look for any drawlangers in Salt Lake Valley, and there were none. And I'm like, was he even here? So I'm like, okay. And I'm like, well, surely he has my address. So maybe he'll write me a letter and be like, what happened? Because the next day, I flew to Alaska for Christmas. And I couldn't wait to get back. It was like all kinds of angst, trying to get back to Salt Lake in January to see if there was a letter from him. However, the volcano erupted in Alaska. And I was detained because they shut the airport down. And I couldn't get back to Salt Lake to like mid-January. And when I got there, there was no mail from him.

Starting point is 00:16:15 So I'm like, that was it. We were done. Bye-bye. We drove off and married other people and had separate lives for 32 years. And then I'll finish this. As you can see, Brian is the one that talks the most in this relationship. This is a flip, man. So this is, so what's interesting is, yeah, we led, we led separate lives.

Starting point is 00:16:36 lives had families. I had seven kids and she had two. And we, you know, the relationships, though, it was interesting because later on we found out that we really are leading kind of parallel lives. Yeah. With our relationship, which is very interesting. We didn't find that after we met again. But what happened is I was going through a divorce and my best friend, who's now married to her best friend that they were boyfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend in high school. They've been married for like 10 years. years. So they kind of have a backstory too. But they basically told me and my best friend said, you need to call Jenny. So I was in Idaho at that time. And we had no communication for 32 years.

Starting point is 00:17:17 He was dead. I was dead to her. Yes. I had driven off a cliff and died. Yeah. Anyway. So, so my best friend says, you need to call Jenny. And I'm like, why would I call Jenny? I'm not even divorced yet. That's what I said. He goes, because she's a paralegal in Idaho. And I'm like, really? Oh my God. And she lived about three. And I'm not. And I'm like, three and a half hours away from me. So I called her. She reluctantly picked up the phone. She had to, her friend was on the other. It said, it was kind of like funny because, because I was talking to Jerry and she was talking to Debbie. And anyway, that that's our friends that are married now. And she was like, can Brian call you and she didn't know what to do? Like what? What the hell? Where were you in

Starting point is 00:18:00 1989? Now you're calling me for help. So hold on a second. We just, we just jumped into. the into the future there. So, but there's two sides of the story. Brian doesn't know how hard you tried back then. So Brian, did you create, did you create this idea that she had just blown you off or something like that, right? And for those that know, Brian, that probably that doesn't typically go well. But what's, see, what's so fascinating about two people that have a connection and then separate and then come back together is to acknowledge how many things could prevent it from happening. So first of all, think about those times. I was just thinking about like all the movies from those times. I'm 54. I didn't have internet in high school and college,

Starting point is 00:18:47 right? So I just remember, which meant no cell phones. I just remember every movie ended the same. It was like there was a misunderstanding. Someone he was getting on a plane and people had to like run or drive to the to the friggin airport to stop them and let them know. So it was like one of those stories, but she didn't, she couldn't find you because she was at a disadvantage. She didn't, she couldn't text you and stuff. What I'd love to get into is one concept that I think is really fascinating that I want to know is you have this thing, even though it didn't work out. You guys experienced chemistry and just like, wow, you know, did you go to the next phase of your life when you got married? And I don't want to the people you were married to down. That's not,

Starting point is 00:19:29 that's not my intention. But did you kind of have to settle? for a new version of what you thought love was. Oh, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? I mean, like, because I know that feeling. I know that feeling. Tell me, because you're both of the Mormon faith. I'm not Mormon, but I love it just because so many people I know are of that faith.

Starting point is 00:19:50 That's how I knew Brian. Funny story about like one of the first times Brian and I became friends is I was speaking on a stage and I kind of had a tendency of saying bad words and things like that on stage. And I didn't know anything about religion at the time because I didn't really grow up with one. And I said something from stage. I said, one of my favorite quotes is I said, if you continue to lick the lollipop of mediocrity, you'll suck forever. And the guy that owns the company, a mutual friend of ours, comes up and he goes, hey, J.C., you can't say that from stage. I go, why? He goes, because there's like Mormon people in the crowd. And then right as he said that, this guy comes up,

Starting point is 00:20:28 Brian Drolender. And he goes, hey, with a pen and paper, he goes, what was that you said? And I'm like, you mean like that guy? So that was when I said, I like Brian Drolinger. But tell me a little bit about that, guys, because this is a big issue. There's a lot of people out there by no means do I want this episode and this concept. And I know that when you have your podcast, this is an important disclaimer. The goal is not to tell people that they're not happy and that they could be happier. That's not what this is about. This is about like following the universe and signs and what's right and things like that. So what was that like in short, because we don't want to talk about other people, but what was that like from a religious component, but also just this moving into this new reality that,

Starting point is 00:21:14 hey, this is what this is the best it gets? Like, what was that like for both of you guys, that period of time? I was a very committed guy. Like when I decide to do something, I'm very committed to what I'm doing. And so that, I think that might be the reason I was in relationship so long being committed. But I think there's like an expectation that you go to college, you get married, and you have kids. And like, why I was discussing this particular individual that I wrote Brian a letter about this guy that was pursuing me, pursuing me, pursuing me, he was like stalking me. And finally, I ended up marrying him. And that's what I had my children with. And I was talking to my grandma about it one day. And she said, and she gave me some false doctor.

Starting point is 00:21:53 I was just this young, you know, girl trying to be obedient and do what they, you know, expectation. And I'm the oldest of eight children. And so, and he's the oldest of seven children. So we both had a lot of, you know, our parents peer pressure. Like your siblings look up to you and you need to, you know, set a good example for them. Like, oh. But my grandma, she told me, she's like, Jenny, you can learn to love anyone. You just have to sacrifice. And I went on that advice for 13 years. And it didn't work out so well. I have two. I have two. beautiful children. He has seven beautiful children. I would have never had seven children. So apparently that's the reason maybe why we didn't connect because those seven needed to be come to him.

Starting point is 00:22:34 And I just my two. And now we have the nine together. And we just yeah. But the other disclaimer, I put a disclaimer out here. When I called her, you know, when I told her I had seven children and the situation and everything. That's not typical. Like, hey, before we. There you go. There you go. Yeah. Well, at that time, it was... You got room for seven children? Well, it was strictly business at that time. She was like, okay, my firm can help you get an attorney and Boisey because she lived, like I said, three and a half hours away. But she actually said to me, she goes, you need to work this out with your wife.

Starting point is 00:23:11 And I did. I went through counseling and all this stuff and tried as much as I could and just wasn't going to happen. But I worked on it and she basically said, you need to stick it out. because divorce is ugly. You don't need to. And so like, I guess one of the disclaimers. Especially with all the children. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:28 Yeah. And I told Jenny kind of laughingly, but not, I told her, I said, when you start this podcast where you're interviewing couples and their second chances, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:23:37 maybe at the beginning you say something like, now please do not get a divorce. Try to work it out. You know, those kind of things. But when you tried and tried, yeah. And you don't know how you can do.

Starting point is 00:23:47 There is a point where you have to go, okay. It's not healthy. It's, yeah. So, so there's that. piece of it too. But commitment is a big thing. And I take that seriously. Well, the whole concept. I mean,

Starting point is 00:24:00 the vows are universally for better or for worse. So you're not supposed to run when it gets worse. But what's interesting about it, though, I remember because I went through a divorce as well, you know, there's a lot of shame associated with it and, you know, that I was a failure and things like that. But the truth was, I wasn't happy and I did everything that I could to make it work. And like you said, even though it was still tough, I just remember these moments where I said, well, I guess this is the worst out of the better or worse. And I said for better or worse, you know, all I can tell you is this. You know, you learn and you live, you know, and you live and you learn. And, you know, I'm a guy that has known that guy for quite some time. And for those of you that listen to the podcast, you'll have to

Starting point is 00:24:49 try to catch the video as well because when you just saw him explaining that period of his life, he went back to this stoic guy that I used to know. But when he starts talking about Jenny and his stories and they go, they laugh and they're like little children again. So there's something to be said about that. And when I got divorced, a lot of people that we know started calling me and asking me basically, should I get divorced? Right. So that's the disclaimer. We'll get into your podcast for the second is like, you know, that's not what this episode is about. This episode is about the person that has tried everything and finds themselves at a crossroads where they're like, now I have nothing. I don't know where to go. There's hope. There's hope. So let's move into that

Starting point is 00:25:36 base. I just remember the day that I heard the bad news and the good news from Brian. Isn't that a weird thing? You know, like he's a guy that I care a lot about. And I just remember it was tough what he had to go through, but then I heard about about Jenny. So when did that happen? Like, when did you guys, because there's this aftermath of like you're supposed to have this grace period where you're not supposed to talk to it. You know, like the world's going to shame you for dating somebody else after you get divorced and all that. How did you guys navigate that time? You know, how did it happen? You know, or is this something that we're not allowed to talk about? No, no, we can talk about. So basically, I got my attorney. And once I was, I had filed.

Starting point is 00:26:19 and everything. I had a show down in Blackfoot, Idaho, which is near Pocatello, where she lives. And my son, Connor, was going down there with me. In fact, we had planned this before I even found out about any other stuff. So we had planned this trip. And I didn't know at the time I didn't, because Jenny wouldn't talk about her relationship. We didn't, we didn't like talk about our relationships. You were falling apart. I was falling apart. Okay. So I was like, wow. So it was all conversations were about in his like what should i do what should and it's just like trying to get him stabilized because he was a hot mess i was pretty much hot mess anyway i was um but i went down to uh this show with my son and that's where i met jenny for the first time in 34 years 34 years

Starting point is 00:27:10 yeah 1987 it was last time we saw each other we went to we were at a dance actually right before my omission. And, and it was, it was like, you know, since I wasn't divorced yet, I was going through the process. And I didn't know, I found out that she was going through a divorce too. But she wouldn't say anything about it until after we got together. Let me ask you a question about that. That's an important thing. Did you have a light of hope? Like, even though you couldn't even talk about it, it was like forbidden because you weren't divorced yet or anything like that. Did you have a moment where you're like, is the universe like forging for me right now? Well, what's funny is after I saw it, the first time I saw him, well, let's back up a second because he was like, I want you to meet

Starting point is 00:27:55 my son and his wife. And I'm like, well, that feels safe. So I called my son and my daughter-in-law, like, can you guys go to the southeastern Idaho bear with me? I got to meet somebody I haven't seen for a long time. My son's like, sure, mom, we'll go. Just as I'm leaving, my son says, we can't go, mom. You're going to have to do this by yourself. We've got you on locator. If you need me. call me, you know. So my son was like, they're, you know, like, I'll help you out, mom, but I can't be there with you.

Starting point is 00:28:20 So I was like, I got to do this by myself. So I'm going to the fair. And Debbie, my best friend is calling me, Jenny, you're going to go to the fair. Do we need to come and chaperone you too? I'm like, there's nothing to chaperone. And my best friend's calling me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:32 And so they're both like putting, you know, in our ears. But so after the fair, after I walked in and I saw him for the first time, he was sitting there. And it was like the spiritual, this bond, that just bam, I looked in his eyes and all I could see was, I'm going to cry, 19 year old Brian, the last time that we saw each other was in Anchorage after a dance. He was walking away, getting into his car. I was driving off with my girlfriends. And I looked back and I watched him walk to his car. And in my mind, I thought, I'm not going to see him for a long time. I thought

Starting point is 00:29:07 it would just be a few years while he was on his mission. I didn't know it was going to be over three decades. And at that moment, when I looked at him, I remembered that moment and I'd forgotten about it for years. And I looked at him and I was like, it's him. It's the same guy. It's Brian. It's those warm brown eyes. I didn't even notice the salt and pepper hair. You know, it was just like yesterday.

Starting point is 00:29:30 It was like time just. It was like, yeah, a time warp. We went back in time. And right then it was instant connection. Zing. Well, now I have to say from my side of the, so I was behind the booth and I'm looking at her and I felt like, because I wasn't divorced yet. So I'm like, but you knew you were going to be. I knew it was going to be divorced, but I wasn't divorced yet. My mind, I'm like, is this the devil? And it wasn't this like physical attraction thing. It was like, oh, it was this connection of, wow. I know you. You know, it's something interesting and I'm sure this is going to come out. in the stories and I want to talk a little bit about the podcast. It's kind of what we try to teach our kids. I've got a 15-year-old daughter and all these guys like her now and all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:30:21 And it's a nightmare. You know, at the same time, I'm trying to just tell her the world is tough and you're going to learn some lessons. You know, you might meet the love of your life and have to wait 30 years before you can be with them. But I just said, you know, when you know, you'll know. And when it happens, you can't stop it. And that's kind of the interesting thing about a second chance. Like, we sometimes mess up the first chance because timing is off and we don't really know what we know. She just looked at Brian and said, well, he kind of messed it up.

Starting point is 00:30:53 But he's thinking, like, well, you messed it up. I didn't know you were looking for me. Thank God you messed it up because you got to wonder if it would have happened, had you not. You know, you never know. That's what's interesting about the universe. Here we are today, and we've got this amazing new concept called second chance. on love. So tell me a little bit about that because obviously Mika and I have this crazy,

Starting point is 00:31:17 crazy story as well. And I'm sure we'll share it with you guys one day on your show. But tell me what the purpose of it is. What are you hoping people get out of your podcast? Well, Jenny's going to be doing the podcast. I love this. But we we've talked about this and it's really giving people hope that there is a chance. It's not over when you feel like it's over. Because we both went through that and we both went through this. So we know that there is something on the other end. We know the difference. We know there's there's a difference. When I was married, I would be walking on the beach with my first husband or whatever. And you'd see couples holding hands and so in love and looking at each other. It's like, oh, because that's not how we, we are. And so it's like, oh, well,

Starting point is 00:32:06 You know, and so, but when we reconnected, it's like, this is what it feels like. I've never felt like this before. And I was trying to explain it to my sister. And she's like, you never felt like that? And I'm like, no. She was like, oh, that's so sad. I'm like, yeah, I'm like 51 and realizing it was always Brian. And there were things in the back of my mind, little like sparks that universe would just like, like a song would come on like crazy for you, Madonna or some like back to the future or just some 80s little thing.

Starting point is 00:32:36 that would come up, I'd be like, ping, Brian. Oh, no, he died. I don't want anything to do with them. And so that feeling of just settling and, oh, you know, you're just going through the day, just getting through the day and you're just like, you just have that lump in your stomach. I don't know how to explain it. It's just like, is there something that's not whole or right in this relationship, you know, previous relationships is just like I'm just getting by. I'm just, you know, giving everything I can and this other person is not doing that for me. and needs aren't being met and you're just giving, giving, Brian's a people pleaser and a giver.

Starting point is 00:33:12 I'm a people pleaser. I'm a giver. And so it attracts those people that take from you and bleed your soul dry. And that's what it felt like. This relationship is like, it's like you feel my soul. And I know you. And there's this strong bond of connection that I have never had with anyone. It's like, you know, now we know the difference.

Starting point is 00:33:33 And I didn't know this was what love could feel like. I you like like and then we were both we were both like on the phone I was on the phone with Debbie on that drive back home to my house in Pocatello by the way there was a shooting star that went across the guy Stevie Nix comes on she's my vibe and I'm like this is a sign and I call Debbie and I'm like I just saw Brian oh my gosh Debbie I don't know what to do I just I'm like and I start crying and I'm like I hope he doesn't hurt me again and he drives off and leave me and she's like she started laughing she's like oh my gosh what did we do And she's like, Jenny, Brian's on the phone right now saying the same thing to Jerry on speaker

Starting point is 00:34:10 phone. And so she's like, what did we do? Like, I don't know. But they have a similar story to ours as well. And so she's like, Jenny, I get it. She's like, I've always known that you and Brian needed to talk about the past and get over it. She's like, there was always a connection with you too. Jerry and I know it. We saw it. We felt it. And every time she kind of tried to bring his name up in a conversation, for example. Jenny, come down to Vegas for this weekend and stay with me. Brian and Jerry are staying together in their room and I want you to come stay with me and you can hear Brian speak. I'm like, no, I'm not going to see Brian Drolinger and I don't know what he's talking about and I don't want anything to do with him. So next subject, Debbie. So I'd always try to shut it down. And then in

Starting point is 00:34:53 that moment she said to me, you were so defensive like when we bring his name up. They're our best friends. So it's hard to not like associate each other with that. And so we were, oh, I was always avoiding him and avoiding us that, you know, and so when I was talking with her, like, all these feelings are real. It's less like happening. It's, it's him. I even call my parents and told my parents. Remember Brian Traillinger from high school? Remember how I wrote him on his mission? And then we couldn't find each other. And my mom's like, yes, I remember. And then I had a holy man from our church that would tell, that told me when I was 16, he said, jettie, when you meet the person you're supposed to be with, you might have already met him. And he winked at me. And he said, and when. And when. you meet him, you will know without a shadow of doubt that's you're supposed to be with. And my mom and dad were standing there when this holy man told me that. And I remembered that. And I forgotten about that for 30 years, that conversation. I was only 16. And then I remembered that as I was driving. And when I saw Brian, I'm like, bam, this is what, this is all the universe telling us, this is our time to be together. So it's very, it's the universe just lined everything up.

Starting point is 00:35:59 And I remember driving to work at my law firm so unhappy. Where do you want me to be God? Like, what's, I'm just going to keep doing what I do. I'm going to be a good person. I'm going to help people. And then I don't know. I just, I had actually just moved back to Idaho from Utah. And I basically moved back to Idaho to get divorced essentially is what I look back now.

Starting point is 00:36:20 I didn't know what I was doing at the time. And it was just to meet Brian. Brian would have never called me if I was working in Utah at the law firm I worked down there at. because he needed representation in the state of Idaho. And so it was just like all these little dot to dot that makes the full picture as we look back now that we didn't know. But I just was trusting the universe and God that I was going to be taken care of. And then this all started transpiring and happening.

Starting point is 00:36:48 And it was like, woo-woo. So this is why I think second chance on love is going to be a great thing because it gives people hope. Inspires them. Like, okay. I got a guy right now, a best friend of mine is going through a divorce, went through a divorce. And he said, I just want to find a Jenny. What's interesting about this idea of just considering a second chance on love, when you look at how important love is and, you know, how it energizes the two of you. I've never met Janie prior to this amazing, you know, rejoining of this, you know, this fire starting again.

Starting point is 00:37:29 But I would assume that Jenny was not like this a year before, you know. So love is tough, right? It's vulnerable. It's scary. And, you know, Jenny was afraid of getting hurt again and stuff. But love is so powerful that you can't deny it. You can't stop it. You can't be madly in love with someone and go away from them and not find them again.

Starting point is 00:37:52 You know, I don't believe in this whole, the one that got away thing. I don't think the one can get away. I don't think that's the way the universe works. So that's a message of hope for people as well. At the time when you're lost, you can't see the North Star. You've given up because you haven't, you know, you've tried for two years or whatever. Meanwhile, you don't know it's going to take 30 years, but it's going to happen, you know. What is, what can people expect from this podcast?

Starting point is 00:38:20 This is really exciting. Is it going to be all stories or is it going to be, are we going to have any of the philosophical stuff and therapists and stuff like that what can we expect well we do have amazing therapists that he's offered to volunteer and help and that's one thing we can decide early on before we even i got super serious we're like what if we had a therapist we just talked to you ever once in a while like yeah that's a good idea before we even got married like yeah yeah we have all the messy stuff in between us you know i see a therapist i don't have a problem per se i just think it's good to have have somebody look under the hood you know yeah so exactly and so what we're trying to do is

Starting point is 00:38:56 create a community of people that can share their stories. And this is very uncomfortable for me. I don't like sharing my. This is very vulnerable and I don't like putting stuff out there. But I feel like it's important to do because there's so many similar situations to others. And the most important thing is like I said, creating a community of people that can come and share their stories and reconnect. And we're getting quite a few followers on Instagram right now and already messages coming through. Oh my goodness. You know, yeah, the one that got away. type thing. If it's meant to be, it'll circle back. If you love something set it free and if it was meant to be, it'll come back. And I think, too, is one thing that I did a lot

Starting point is 00:39:36 of work on for the three years before Brian call me that as I look back, there was like, I don't know, like this magnetic thing that he was coming into my life because things would happen that. Yeah, it was. And I go to a spiritual healer. She's a medium. She's a medium. She is a spiritual advisor. She's not interdenominational. So she's just connected to the other side. And she helped me work on myself because she said point blank to me, Jenny, you need to work on you.

Starting point is 00:40:09 And then when you start working on you and know who you are and what your creator created you to be, everything starts to fall into line and fall into place. And it did. And so I've learned from that. And so that's what I want to share with other people too. And we're going to have like stories and then, you know, And every week, I love, and I love self-help. Like, you can always improve yourself.

Starting point is 00:40:30 There's always something you can work on every day. So we'll touch on those types of. That seems to be a very important part of the equation. I mean, like, I did not know my dream wife prior. You know, I didn't meet her and lose her. And I found the woman that is perfect for me in a completely random, random way. But what I think a lot of the story is, is you'll always notice. that people had to evolve.

Starting point is 00:40:57 People had to have enough pain and suffering to drive them to do something radical, but also evolve into the person that makes the reunion or union right. And that's, and you know what's interesting. I'm sure you guys have talked about, man, I wish we had our whole lives together and all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:41:16 But at the same time, I don't know if it would be as special. There was less magic around it and stuff. I mean, I think it's just perfect the way it unfolded. And we talked about this. We said if we got together back then, let's say that phone wasn't disconnected. Brian might have screwed it up. I would, I probably would have. We probably would have got a divorce ourselves. No. No, I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? But, but, you know, we weren't ready. And it is about personal development and working on yourself.

Starting point is 00:41:46 And when you have the person that's doing that with you, that makes all the difference. Right. Well, this has been so much fun. It hits home to me. And, you know, this is a personal growth, kind of self-development, sense-making podcast. But what we've just done is take something that affects everybody. Everybody's affected by love or lack of love and things like that. And I think that your podcast is kind of like a paying forward of your own experience. But through all of the stories that people will hear through the podcast, I think people will develop hope, right? It's like every time you hear, well, maybe I can, maybe me, maybe me. Because you guys didn't have a podcast like this for those 30 years. So you had lost hope. And you guys now know that the universe is watching and guiding and is in favor of things. So you're at it, you haven't, you have an advantage over everybody because of your experience. But for all those people that are lost out there and confused and maybe giving up and feeling like the universe is against them and they got a bad shake, bad deck of cards and things like that, I think this podcast is going to be a big, big hit. I'm excited for it. Well, thanks, J.C. And it's exciting for us because we have a book coming out too, the end of the year. And then we also are right now in the middle of America's favorite couple.

Starting point is 00:43:13 I have voted for that a couple times. Yeah. Thank you. So we're in the top, I guess we're in the top 1% of the people, because there was 200,000 people that joined it. Well, you guys have been 30 years for that spot. I guess. So it's like, oh, this is cool. So, yeah, and it would just help a little bit with.

Starting point is 00:43:30 Well, there's a spread in Variety magazine. Yeah. Yeah. There's a spread in variety magazine. And so we'll get the make sense generation and folks to get that link and hopefully drive that sucker home. But guys, thanks so much for sharing your story. story. It's so good to get to know Jenny a little bit more. I've only heard what Brian has said about you.

Starting point is 00:43:53 And, you know, it's nothing but good. He's like this little kid again. And, you know, watching, watching you guys walk around holding hands even. I never saw Brian doing anything like that. It was just a committed dad that did everything right for his family. But it's so nice to see my good friend in love like a little boy now. I love this episode and I think that everybody will agree that a second chance on love makes sense. Remember, all of the links to the information and resources that we discussed on this episode, you'll be able to find in the notes of the podcast and any videos associated with it. But most importantly, remember this.

Starting point is 00:44:36 If you learn something today, give it away. That's how it's going to stay. So have a nice day. We'll see you next time.

Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - Making Sense of A Second Chance On Love with Jenny and Bryan Drollinger - Episode 104

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