Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - Making Sense of Plant Medicine Retreats - with Billy Venkatraman

Starting point is 00:00:02 Hmm. Makes sense. So great morning, everybody. Welcome to another special edition of the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. Dornick podcast. For those of you that have been following along, we have spoken about some of these experiences and journeys that I've taken that involve plant medicine, which is an interesting coupling of words. So today's guest is a very, very special friend of mine and somebody that I met through those channels that I consider a brother of mine. that I consider a brother of mine, which I only have a few people like that in my life, that I've met in some of my journeys and the work that I've been doing with plant medicine, and that is Billy Venkatroman.

Starting point is 00:00:43 It's just a very, very special person. The relevance of him being on the Make Sense podcast is it gives us the ability to make sense of plant medicine and psychedelics and this very, very popular topic. And the reason why is that Billy is somebody that has advantage. point like very, very few people because he's been a facilitator at one of the world's most popular and most credentialed plant medicine retreats and also has a background as a life coach and done so many different things on a spiritual level. So this is a very, very special individual. And the way that I met him is I was on my first plant medicine retreat. I might have even heard this story, but this is the

Starting point is 00:01:26 guy. I was on my first plant medicine retreat, like totally freaked out and scared about everything that I didn't know. And I had this amazing experience and I saw Billy arrive and I knew that he worked there, but I didn't know who he was. I could just see that everybody loved him and everybody was hugging Billy and he was obviously somebody that, you know, had a very, very positive impact on people. But I was just a mere mortal enjoying my plant medicine experience. But I remember this moment where I wasn't really feeling the effects of the plant medicine. We'll get into that conversation. There was this moment and it was pitch black and I was in the Amazon jungle of Peru. And then all of a sudden, I couldn't see it, but what I heard was one of the most

Starting point is 00:02:06 beautiful sounds that I've ever heard. And that was the sound of this beautiful harp being played, and that was being played by Billy. So that was my first experience with Billy, and then Billy and I started having these far too in-depth conversations about the universe and human behavior and things like that. And I just said, I'm going to know this guy for the rest of my life. So as we take this fun journey to make sense of plant medicine and psychedelics and things like that so that you can get some clarity on that, I want to welcome to the podcast, my very, very good friend and brother, Billy Venkatroman. How are you, my friend? I'm good. Thank you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:42 So the way that this show works, this new podcast format is we take topics and we want to make sense of them. That's what the listeners want to do, is they want to take a topic like plant medicine in this situation, it makes sense of it. So what I'd love to do is, set the stage a little bit by finding out a little bit more about your background, which might unveil some things that I don't even know about you. I guess share with us in a short format. I've heard stories about how you went and experienced plant medicine, but then never left. But how did you find your way to become involved as a facilitator at first at a plant medicine retreat? Yeah. So, So I came to plant medicine with Arcana because of my own feelings of, I would say like depression.

Starting point is 00:03:27 I feel like I ended up. I think this is the same for a lot of people. Like I ended up from a young man, like experiencing my own difficulties and traumas. And by the time I was 21, I didn't really know who I was. I was like a byproduct of all environment and conditions I had experienced without understanding like, who am I? Who am I? What do I love? What would I love to create? I had never been asked any of these questions by a teacher. Teachers, for example, tell you what to learn, but they don't teach you. They don't even teach you to breathe. You never even really get taught to breathe properly,

Starting point is 00:04:07 let alone like to know yourself on the deepest levels. So, through, my life I got incredibly lost in the world around me and became somebody I didn't really know I was. But I had like this deep feeling or desire to help others. And that comes in part from experiencing like or not just experiencing the experience of suffering and the perception of suffering we could talk about. But also seeing the suffering in the world around me in others. I am half Indian, so I grew up going to India and I saw like a lot of poverty. I grew up with two backgrounds, exposed to two backgrounds, one from areas of less fortune and area,

Starting point is 00:04:55 some areas from a lot of fortune, but like in some areas like crime, violence, just experiences of suffering and vulnerability. So, but I knew that wasn't who I was. So where I was, so where I was, in a feeling of like this suffering within myself from all of these experience and from not knowing who I was. I knew deep within always. That's not who I was and actually I just wanted to love like love myself, love others. So then I kind of wanted to help people and I originally did it in the best way I knew how which was to work in a prison. I've been around people who have taken the path that leads to prison. So I know how to work with people to guide them, to try and steer them away from, or to try and steer them towards a life which is more productive and

Starting point is 00:05:53 beneficial to help them in that way. But that works to a degree. Again, we could talk extensively about that. But to help myself, I obviously came to Arcana and I came to plant medicine. My first retreat was with two peyote ceremonies and two ayahuasca ceremonies just for one week. But I ended up staying two weeks. And I found so much insight and like healing. And by healing, I mean like deep connection with myself with the earth around me. And I saw how it really transformed the lives of so many people that I ended up having breakfast every morning with the, owner, Jose. And then a month later, I started as a volunteer so that I could facilitate

Starting point is 00:06:44 others on their healing journey. Because I should also mention I've been working with plant medicines for probably 10 years prior to going to Arkana, just not with ayahuasca, more with mushrooms and silas. I've been in my own journey of discovery. So what's fascinating about this is There's people that are listening to this and they just heard Billy share this experience. And it's one thing to like say, hey, what is plant medicine and what does it like to go there? But you just heard an experience of somebody having such a profound experience with it that they found their way to their life's purpose as well. So, you know, what's interesting is I hear a lot of stories about that, about how people go there in search of that. You never know how the universe is going to present that.

Starting point is 00:07:32 What I'd love to know, because I want to start off with questions that I know that people, need to know and then you and I will get into some more fun stuff. You have to understand that Billy has a lot of experience, not only in working with plant medicine himself, but facilitating and helping so many people. So when you go to one of these plant medicine retreats, and I went to this place he's referring to called Arcana, and I too know this guy, Jose, and it's just a world-class place called Arcana Spiritual Center. But there's another end to it where Billy is actually the guy that everybody's asking questions and he's there to help people and guide people as a facilitator. And now he's gone on and we've actually worked together and created his own experiences.

Starting point is 00:08:14 But just understand who you're talking to right now or who you're listening to is just somebody that's got experience on both ends of working with plant medicine, but also working a lot with humans. That's another interesting component of plant medicine is humans using plant medicine. Billy, one thing a lot of people are going to want to know, and this is kind of a stigma that's out there. one of the things that I know is when I came home is like impossible to explain to somebody what it's like. But there's a general stigma that plant medicine is drugs and the same thing as like psychedelics and things.

Starting point is 00:08:46 So how would you answer this question? It's like, what is the difference between plant medicine, which doesn't always have to be some sort of a psychedelic, you know, thing? Plant medicine can refer to many things. But I'm talking about plant medicines like ayahuasca, San Pedro, peyote, you know, psilocybin. What's the difference between those things and like street drugs? I mean, to be honest, some of these plant medicines you're referring to peyote, ayahuasca mushrooms, at like a high level, they're almost too intense to be using as street drugs, if you like. And they're so vast in the spectrum of experience that if you try to use them in that way,

Starting point is 00:09:32 end up having a very hard time because their natural medicines, there are actually a channel to the divine. So the divine would then teach you about addiction. So if you tried to, if you became addicted to them, it would teach you about addiction and you would probably undo that naturally. Many street dogs are made by humans. They're like synthesized into various different forms. Having said that, there are some obviously beneficial studies with, for example, MDMA, but MDMA is just a serotonin release. So really that's just increasing your ability to experience the sensation of happiness in a moment or through facilitated therapy, which can obviously have a positive effect for some people. But this is actually more broad than that because I see a drug as an addiction. And by

Starting point is 00:10:23 that, like an addictive behavior. So I'll give you an example, marijuana. Marijuana is a plant medicine and it's a master plant in the same way that ayahuasca or San Pedro are master plants and they can teach you if you use them ceremoniously with reverence and respect if you then smoke marijuana every single day then that becomes a drug because it's an addicted habit that you've created so i would say like all things have a use on many many levels but if they become a habit or a an uncontrolled addiction, then that's actually, it's your behavior that makes something a drug not necessarily the substance itself. So is it safe to say? Because I know that before I went on my first experience, you know, when I was like just trying to do everything perfect because

Starting point is 00:11:16 I was just certain that I had a high chance that I was going to die. That was my first uneducated mind. There was a lot of talk about intentions. So it sounds like that is what you're saying in general is that there's a different intention between me going and doing something for fun. And I would assume some people probably find their way out there thinking that it'll be an interesting and fun experience. But for the most part, it looks like people are going out there to learn something about themselves. So that's a very big different, you know, the intention behind it, correct? Yeah, exactly. And obviously, like you said, that's, that's completely different for everyone. But the intention behind it and also set and setting. And I think this like, for example,

Starting point is 00:12:05 the intention you have, why are you doing something? What is it you're trying to discover or achieve or attain? And then also like the reverence and respect, which also comes down to intention, but then that also comes down with education and knowledge of a space of a medicine rather than just consuming something, for example, to get high or like to see pretty shapes or colors. It's fascinating. I remember, and I've shared this story before, but I remember, you know, I was just so eager to just know what it was going to be like before I experienced it. It's just a funny thing about humans. Like, we need to know everything. And I just remember I met this guy and I'll, you know, give a shout out because he's a friend of mine now from California.

Starting point is 00:12:50 One of my first guys I met, his name was Alex, just a really, really chill guy. And he was sitting there and he had just gone through a week of being at the retreat and here I am like fresh meat and I'm like just trying so hard to get this guy to explain to me what it is that I'm considering doing before I do it and he was just so smart in the way he answered it and I because you know I had like some funny shirt on or something like that and I was just obviously just an oblivious you know human that just didn't know a fuck about anything and I said to him I go Alex you know what is this like what does it like to be on plant medicine and he just pauses and he looks at me and he goes, well, I can tell you one thing. It ain't no fucking vacation. And I was just,

Starting point is 00:13:29 I just started laughing because that was the moment that I realized that I went there to do some work, to work on myself. And I released from the expectations of what it would feel like. And I got more in tune with why I was there and what it is that I wanted to find. And is that what you would recommend? Somebody on the outside looking in, that's probably spending more time wondering what's what it's going to be like, what it's going to feel like, what's going to happen to them. We can't really tell people what to do, but how would you speak to that person about saying, like, how should I approach this? What would you do? So first and foremost, every experience is different. Every ceremony is different. And there are, with ayahuasca, like very profoundly different.

Starting point is 00:14:18 With persons like San Pedro, they can be similar and people's experience. can understand the similarities. But the experience is still individual and independent to the self. Maestro Alcidas, who's San Pedro Maestro, he says, which is, I wholeheartedly agree, that plant medicines, like maestro's are facilitators and they're facilitators to help you,

Starting point is 00:14:48 help guide you to work with plant medicines. But these plant medicines, these master plants, if you like, are channels to the divine. They're connecting you to the frequency of the divine and within that divine knowledge. You can think of them like a guru or a teacher. So when you're coming to these medicines and you ask for their permission, like in yoga, for example, with a guru, you might bow at their feet. So when you come to one of these master plants or channels to the divine gurus or teachers, you come to them and with respect firstly and ask them what you would like to receive, what would you like to learn, even ask them like, show me, like show me what you have to teach

Starting point is 00:15:39 so that you can be better and better discover yourself. Sometimes if people come just to have a good time, Although I would argue with some of these medicines, there's always moments that can be difficult, almost all of them actually. So it's never just purely a good time. That'll always be moments. But if you come with that, then sometimes they don't even give you very much. It's like the more clarity you have, the more respect, reverence that you have, the more they will help you and facilitate your process. I remember the first time I heard somebody talk like you just did. And I'm speaking on behalf of, you know, this interesting mix of listeners that I have, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:24 that probably involve some people that are like, wow, this is really hitting deep. And some other guys like, did that guy just say that he's talking to plants? So, well, but, but I understand what you mean because I've experienced it. But expand on that a little bit for the uneducated, unopened and curious mind what you mean. because I've never seen Billy walk around in the jungle of the Amazon and walk up and talk to a plant. But what he's referring to is this relationship that has, that's based on respect. Because one thing I can tell you for sure is if you go to the Amazon jungle, yes, plant medicine is one thing. But when you realize what it's like for people that live there and live off of the jungle,

Starting point is 00:17:07 you have this very, very new respect for plants in general and nature. Just explain a little bit more in a way that everybody could have. understand it what you mean by asking for permission and talking to these plants asking for things. Well, it's kind of funny, actually, because I could break this down in two ways in the way that there are dimensions within this dimension that we can't perceive. Like our sense of sight, hearing, our senses taste is actually completely limited, like to very specific spectrums. So what lies beyond that is, it's like if I put x-ray goggles on, I can see an x-ray. And that exists, your skeleton exists.

Starting point is 00:17:47 I just can't see it. And in the same respect, you can put the lenses of these medicines on. And they allow you to see things that exist that you can't see with the limited human senses. So within these dimensions, exists plant spirits and interdimensional worlds that we can't see. And I don't understand fully. Nobody does. And anybody who would say, oh, I understand that fully. nobody really understands it fully because nobody understands like all the different layers of this

Starting point is 00:18:20 universal reality to such a to the ultimate degree that they know everything i mean you some things just are and that's okay just let them be saying that at the base level of everything is the divine spirit of creation the universe that the oneness and the one song that exists in everything and that flows through everything. And these plants, which are ancient and old and wise and connected to the earth itself, which is its own living being of knowledge, and ancient within the universe. When you're asking permission, you're asking permission to the divine knowledge that these plants and these plants that are connected to this knowledge have.

Starting point is 00:19:08 So really, you're asking permission to the divine. And you're also asking permission to yourself in this way, the divine within yourself and the divine within nature itself. Yes, it's funny how somebody would struggle to understand what it means to do that, but somehow found their way to talking to someone that lives up in the sky. And, you know, because, I mean, I remember somebody was doing that as a good friend of mine because I don't want to cause any trouble because everybody knows that on the make sense podcast, Dragon doesn't have enough. opinion, right? But I'm just an observer. And I remember a friend of mine was just talking about his relationship with God. And we were just talking about where does God live? And he says, everywhere. And I just started to look around and I'm like, hmm, you know, yeah, that's a perfect example, though. What's interesting is everybody gets to decide what the divine is. But one thing I can tell

Starting point is 00:19:59 you is that when you experience working with plant medicine and also spending time with these maestros, these shamans, which we can talk a little bit about, have been living in the jungle, living off the jungle forever, you get to experience how powerful and duly respected nature is and plants and stuff. You know, so fascinating. The divine is unity and oneness, like, that exists and the energy of which flows through all things. And it depends on where you look in what religion or culture you look, but this is God, tau, source.

Starting point is 00:20:37 Is the energy or the unity and one? of creation itself. So you could argue as light or love. This is why people who, for example, experience Bufo, which is another medicine, Bufo-Avirus, which we could talk about, some people are atheists, and they leave understanding that they are part of a source of all things, like I say, which humans label as God. So when I say the divine, you could say God or Tao, or or source or anything that resonates with you as a word to represent the frequency and vibration of oneness in all things that is the universe and exists within the universe itself. Well said. What's interesting in that light is to look at most of the gods, including the word

Starting point is 00:21:30 God, share the same sound of a la, Buddha, God. So there's a sign that they might all be the same thing, just different interpretations made up by somebody else that learned some letters. That's actually like a meditation you can do, which is for creation, and our meditations. There's a really good Wayne Dwyer one that you can do, which is a meditation for creation, and it's R. And like you say, isn't it funny that Buddha, Allah, I mean, all of these things have including the universal sign of agreement when they say amen.

Starting point is 00:22:10 So everybody's like, fuck, I thought it was unique. Here's a question. This is an interesting question. I don't know if I've ever heard you try to take a stab at this. How does plant medicine work? This is something, rather than explaining what it feels like and what it's like to be on plant medicine, this is a question that I know a lot of people have. So you can look up on the internet and see that, you know,

Starting point is 00:22:30 ayahuasca is this brew made and you drink it or you eat mustrooms or you eat mushrooms or you drink a tea or you eat this peyote cactus or whatever in general because i think people know that if i smoke this if i snort this i feel something but that's not what we're talking about here we're talking about using these things as teachers so i would assume and i kind of have my own version of it but i want to hear this from you i would assume that it's somewhat of a teaching going on so the medicines when they're ingested do what how did these medicines interact with the human brain that enable us to see what I've read as, you know, something called the world within the world, you know, the space between everything and where we can learn things that we didn't know.

Starting point is 00:23:13 How does it work? That's to, like, getting into the science, for example, of DMT or pineal gland or, like, interbrain connections is even like to get into the central nervous system and how your stomach synthesizes things to connect with your brain or grey matter, etc. Is a scientific way of explaining an experience. Obviously, this is biology, chemistry. But really the experience, we try and explain an experience, but an experience can't be explained unless it's experienced.

Starting point is 00:24:00 You could try and understand a medicine and say a medicine does this and these are the scientific components of a medicine, like any medicine. But you can't understand what that medicine really feels like unless you take it and experience it yourself. And it's actually in the experience itself that it will give you this understanding of what it actually gives. You could do brain scans and brain imaging and you can see what it might do.

Starting point is 00:24:32 within the vibration and frequency of your inner being, but the actual experience, which is completely unique and individual, can't really be quantified unless you experience it. At that level, what these plant medicines are doing, which are channels to the divine, are actually teaching you fundamentally the divine, like your relationship with them in the sense that you are an individualized expression of the divine also. And an individualized expression of the divine also. And an individualized expression of love. And one of the most abundant words that comes up on all retreats and bear in mind, like I've worked with many, many, many, many people is love, which is an experience. Like, we use the word love, but love is an experience of a feeling. And that feeling state is these

Starting point is 00:25:21 medicines connecting you to that bliss, that reverence to life around you, to your life, how you show up in the world and kind of stripping away all that you're not, which is what we carry, which is like what we refer to as trauma. So fascinating. What it brings up for me is one of the things that I speak a lot about on this podcast and with my book is I always refer to the brain, the nervous system, the six senses as what I call the sense-making machine. And, you know, we all walk around and that's in essence what we're doing.

Starting point is 00:25:54 It's what I'm doing right now. I'm having this conversation with you. I'm seeing you. and there's this microphone in my face and I'm feeling the chair under me. So that's kind of what we're always doing. This is we're, to your point, we're experiencing life. So is it safe to say? Because I can tell you that, hey, I went out last night and did Molly and I had this

Starting point is 00:26:15 experience. So I think people know what that means, but this is different. But it's not in a sense. Because from my experience, it's taking something that was unknown with my experience. and my sense-making machine was not equipped to see something. And then when I used plant medicine, it showed me something that was 100% there. It wasn't a hallucination or anything like that. I mean, like, just to give the listeners an experience,

Starting point is 00:26:43 there was this one moment where I was sitting there and where I was on this comfortable mattress. And this was right after I saw Billy walk around with what seemed to be a donkey head. but I remember I was having this in-depth conversation with one of the shamans. And, you know, I mean, like, just like I'm having with Billy right now, this in-depth conversation, and he was giving me some deep, deep insight. And it wasn't until like 30 minutes later that I noticed that the shaman was like only a foot tall and sitting on my mattress.

Starting point is 00:27:18 And it was only then that I realized that didn't make sense. Right. So, but at the same time, it was a. 100% happening. I was not feeling anything or anything like that. I was having a conversation just like Billy. So would you say that it expands your experience? Is that what you're saying that it does? I mean, it really depends on the person and the person's experience. And these medicines will teach you in the best way you know possible to understand. So for some people, for example, for example, Jose, I'll give you an example of him. Many of his messages

Starting point is 00:27:54 come auditory. He gets almost like these messages to him, but he doesn't see anything, because that's the way that his body is the best way for him to learn. Like we all have different learning styles, right? So for some people, it's to see something, like to see something visually, and then they can interpret that in the way that is necessary for them to interpret. And some people actually even struggle with interpretate them of their visions. Right. Because they come in many different forms and this is where, for example, you need to work with experience. Maestro's, for example, who you could ask, like, I'll give you an example. Sometimes in a ceremony it happens where people, the anaconda comes, which is like the spirit

Starting point is 00:28:39 of the medicine and it eats them. It completely devours. And for somebody to interpret that who had never had any understanding of the medicine or any of these experiences, not only could that be scary, but they could be like, what does that mean? But the maestros would tell you that it's like the deepest cleansing and actually protection. So this is why you need to work with experience people so that sometimes you can interpret these visions. But at the same time, these teachings will come to you in the way that you can most clearly understand. Like if you see an Anaconda, for example, you know that you've seen it and then you could ask or you know if you are here, hear a message or feel something. Sometimes the medicine doesn't come in this way. It needs to

Starting point is 00:29:26 cleanse your physical body. So then, for example, this is why particularly with ayahuasca, but actually with all medicines, there can be a lot of purging. It's like extracting all this stagnant energy in your body and then slowly, slowly cleansing you of it through purging. And that doesn't just, that's not just vomit. That's purging from everywhere. But yeah, The message is come in a different way for different people, and some can be in a very easy, understandable way, and some can be in a way where you need to be in an experience space for people to help you interpret these lessons. Or the insight might even come later, like in the weeks later. One of the things that I consider to be one of my greatest blessings ever is somehow God has gifted me

Starting point is 00:30:15 with the ability to have yawning be the way I purge. I remember I would be there and just hear all these people vomiting. And they all had this real thick anger for me because I would just go like that. So for all of those stories out there, you know, what Billy's talking about is purging. You know, you can read about it. And some people talk about like, I remember this one guy goes, be careful. You're going to shit your pants. And I'm like, I don't think I'm going to shit my pants.

Starting point is 00:30:43 Like I might have to go to the bathroom, you know. but that's as possible as anything. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsor. The Make Sense podcast is sponsored by the Make Sense Academy, co-created by both myself, Meeker, aka The Chicken, and The Dragon, the Make Sense Academy is a live interactive community where like-minded, solution-focused, curious seekers of expansion, gather daily in a mastermind setting with both Chicken and Dragon,

Starting point is 00:31:12 where they have access to premium content, online courses and powerful collaboration and networking, all for $24 a month. The Make Sense Academy and its members are solely responsible for funding the Make Sense podcast. So feel free to reach out to us at www.org, riseup with dragon.com and check out the Make Sense Academy, risk-free, with a money-back guarantee. Now, back to the Make Sense podcast. What's interesting about this whole thing is that it's going to be, individualized, right? It's going to be your own experience because that's the way life unfolds.

Starting point is 00:31:49 And what I find funny about all of this, because, you know, I'm very, very much, and we just recently had Risman Verk, who wrote the simulation hypothesis, like, that's something that I'm very fascinated and open about, is this notion that maybe nothing, none of this is fucking real, you know, so like, I'm open to anything. That's why my first response when I hear anybody say something crazy is just, huh, because how is it any less crazy than me? But what's, what I find funny is how human beings have this idea that they're a hundred percent certain with an exclamation point at the end of the sentence that they know what baseline reality is. And anything that they experience outside of it is witchcraft, is crazy. What I can tell you, and I'd love you to expand on this a little

Starting point is 00:32:35 bit is the most fascinating thing that I found was this idea, I almost consider augmented reality, meaning, you know, augmented reality glasses would indicate that I would put these glasses on and see everything that I see, but now I would see other stuff like Pokemon Go, you know, like you'd see the Pokemon. So that's kind of the way that I interpret it. But what's interesting about it is when you're in the medicine and you're being guided and you're open and curious about it, you'll be led somewhere and you'll see these messages. As Billy said, sometimes it's not always fun, but it's always a good time if you look at it at the end

Starting point is 00:33:11 because it's so valuable and I've expanded my life. It's one of the most transformational things that I've ever done. However, what I find interesting about it, and I know that this has been a big discussion between you and I, as well as the amazing Valeria, who's Billy's partner, is this idea of, do those things that we see, these messages, whether Jose's getting it through his evil, or I'm seeing this little man talk about my parents and things like that.

Starting point is 00:33:38 Do those things only exist in medicine land? Or do they always exist and we just have different abilities to gain access to them? Because I know that this is a real hot topic, but what would you say to that? Think about the most profound thing that you've ever received on medicine. Do you have to be on medicine to experience that or is it still here? I understand? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:02 And my view of that is you don't need medicine. Right. Like Valeria, who you've just referred to as my partner, she's just been in the Himalayas doing Kria, for example. And some of the states of consciousness and insight connection to herself to others, grounding, creative processes. She has experienced the same as, for example, experiencing some of these medicines.

Starting point is 00:34:33 I mean, when we're talking about medicines as well, sometimes it's tricky. Like we've talked quite a bit about ayahuasca, but every medicine is actually very different from one another. They're the same in the foundation of them, but they're completely different. You're going to have a completely different experience, albeit the teaching eventually will always come to the same thing,

Starting point is 00:34:57 which is the love and unity and connection. So, but you, You are that, you are the medicine and actually as an individualized expression of the universe that you are already, you have that power, you are boundless and limitless. So it's like clairvoyant, like a clairvoyant can connect sometimes with a frequency and vibration of space-time where they can interpret messages outside of a normal field. And we all have these declares. So your ability to tune in and to connect with these.

Starting point is 00:35:30 is dependent on from person to person, and most of all your ability to connect within yourself. I was just thinking about the correlation, once again, between religion and plant medicine. One of the things that I noticed whenever I experienced something, because I'm the kind of guy, I would say I'm fun to sit next to when you're on plant medicine, but I could also probably be a little bit of a pain in the ass,

Starting point is 00:35:53 because I talk a lot and I ask a lot of questions. And I just remember going through this phase where I kept on asking my neighbor if he saw something, or heard what I heard. And their response typically was like, shh. But how is that any different that if I get a message from the divine and I consider that God is the divine or the universe is the divine? Or I take note of an interesting distinction or a sign or an insight.

Starting point is 00:36:19 Just like that, I could look at the person next to me and say, did you see that? Did you hear that? And they'll be like, shh, right? So I love where you've taken this because if I interviewed somebody, else, they would really dive deep into the Pinio gland and what DMT does and the science, like Joe Dispens, it loves to do that stuff. But I love how we've just simplified it for people to the space of just the experience, the human experience. The next question I want to ask you is, is the most common question I have from people. The first is, what is it like? But the second one is,

Starting point is 00:36:53 who is it right for? Who needs to, I shouldn't say need, but who should consider it as a possible solution. How would you answer that question, Billy? I know that one of the tenants and you're very passionate about integration, meaning the work outside of the retreat, this is the most fascinating part of it for me is this idea of why would I do plant medicine. I know me personally, I was called to it for four years and I got to the place where the calling was so strong. I acted on it and went to the Amazon by myself, which in the normal world would sound crazy. For me, it made total sense. But who is plant medicine for? That's really difficult to answer because I feel like it's for whoever is called to it. I could explain to somebody what plant medicine is or how the experience

Starting point is 00:37:45 works or some of the visions I've seen or some of the visions of the peoples have seen or like how I've observed it transformed the lives of thousands of people. And actually like I've worked in a number of environments and I've never seen so many people in for example one week reconnect to their authentic self and want to then transform that's the integration so your life only changes if you make the changes right so that's another topic but in a week to get to a point where you're you let go of like a lot of trauma that you've carried with you your whole life or anxiety or depression and feel such a way that you feel back to like a state of love is transformational. Like I say, where you go from that is up to you.

Starting point is 00:38:35 But in that way, I could explain that to people, all these experiences. But unless somebody feels it for themselves, then it's not for them. So the answer then, my mom, let's take my mom. I've explained what I've suggested and I've described these experiences and stuff. But she's just never felt that calling. And whether that's through fear or because it's the truth of how she feels, it doesn't matter. If she doesn't feel called to walk that path, then it's not the path for her. So to answer that question for each individual, I would say, like, tune into the way that you feel, truly feel.

Starting point is 00:39:17 Not necessarily even through fear. Like tune into the way that you feel and ask yourself, is this for me? and that's the same with all things. In plant medicine is no different. One more thing I would say as well is that I feel like watching people go through these experiences and these retreats is a large part of their experience isn't just plant medicine. There's medicine in all things and community is one of them. Connection and community to the people they share these experiences with.

Starting point is 00:39:50 To take yourself out of the concrete jungle, which is dense vibration. Again, I could talk extensively about that and go into nature and connect with life and high vibration in nature. That's its own medicine. Community, nature, these are medicines, breath is medicine.

Starting point is 00:40:08 So you don't need to necessarily come to plant medicine if it's not for you. You need to find your medicine. And medicine exists in various different forms. So that's up to each individual to find their form. But if they feel called, then obviously find a place that is authentic, is experienced, knows what they're doing with people who know what they're doing, which is really people of love, true love, true care, true compassion. Expand just a little bit on that, because that's another hot topic is how do people find the right place to go. I mean, obviously, we've made reference to the Archana Spiritual Center, and I'm a big fan of Jose.

Starting point is 00:40:52 and I mean, that is just a just a top-notch place. Very often I hear people tell me that they're going on an ayahuasca trip or they've done ayahuasca and I, you know, I don't, I'd really make a concerted effort never to make somebody feel like they've done something wrong because that would be an indication that I think I'm right. But when people tell me that they hung out with this guy that went to the jungle and a year later was a shaman and he's in a basement in somebody's house in Chicago, ago, you know, something like that, or then I also meet these people that, like you, went on a

Starting point is 00:41:28 retreat and had just an amazing experience and then started to offer the medicine to their friends and things like that. I'm not saying that stuff is bad, but when we talk about somebody that's kind of on that open and curious and they're feeling that calling, and I think people understand what it means to feel a calling. Believe me, the jungle will call you if it's your time. if you were to give me like a bullet list, let's say your mom all of a sudden said, Billy, I want to try plant medicine. What is the criteria I should use to find the right place? How would you answer that?

Starting point is 00:42:01 I would say do the right amount of research. So first set your intention. Why do you want to do it? And different spaces and places cater to different things in different ways. So it's like why does somebody purchase one house and somebody purchase. is another house, like one person might like the interior of one and one person might like the interior of the other. Or like, why do you like chocolate cake or why do you like apple pie? This is very honest and I'm always going to be honest because that's who I am. I am obviously

Starting point is 00:42:37 the Dharma officer of Arcana as well as obviously having my own project. And I wouldn't say come to my project or I wouldn't say go to Arcana. Both have open doors and open for you. There are other plant medicine centers, for example, the other two most well-known ones, are Sultara and Rhythmia. All these three centers, so for example, Arcana, this is with ayahuasca, particularly. Rhythmia, Arcana, Soltara, they all work with the same medicine, but they're all completely different. They're different visually. There's different people there. Their schedules different. They offer different things. They work with the medicine, in different ways. And then for somebody to decide, you have to do the right amount of research

Starting point is 00:43:25 and then follow your own intuition and your own heart. I mean, that's really always the way with all things. You have to really follow your own intuition after educating yourself and like giving yourself the most informed possible way to make an informed decision. And that's it. Which one you go to is is for you for your own heart to choose i obviously think that arcana or i know it is authentic and i know the people that work there in the way that it's built so i believe in that project but i wouldn't say don't go to another one if that's the one that you are drawn to or intuitively called to go to then that's okay too yeah i love the idea of just not getting in the way of somebody's calling. If somebody comes to me today and says, I'm being called to Christ,

Starting point is 00:44:20 I'm not going to say, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that, you know, because one of the things that we try to refrain from is preaching. And I love the fact that, because I know how dedicated Billy is to what he does and where he works. So the fact that you just heard him say something like that only further validates how authentic he is. Because I can promise you. You. You can promise you. You you one thing, some of those other names of places would not answer that question the same way. They would say, well, of course, come to this place. Silly? I'm going to, like, my desire or like the purpose that I have is basically like, how do you change the world was the very first thought that I had. And like, how do you create as much

Starting point is 00:45:07 love as possible in the world as possible? So in the example that you've given, somebody might come to Christ in Christ's consciousness, and that might be in its pure form. That might be the connection they need to reconnect to love. Or they might go to Allah or Muhammad. That's their medicine. Exactly. And really, or Buddha, you could choose anybody from any religion. If you condense or were religion into like a paraphrase, it would be live from love, do the best you can. That's it. So in all their forms, they're all different faiths, all different teachers, but actually all, all they're doing is restoring you to live from love and do the best you can. And in that way, it doesn't matter which medicine you go to. And I'm not even just talking plant medicine.

Starting point is 00:45:59 I'm talking life medicine. It doesn't matter which plant medicine you come to, which plant medicine center you go to. if you feel called to go there and then the purpose is to restore yourself to a place of love so that you can live from love and do the best you can to show up in this world with with love, with abundance, with honesty and integrity and be of service to yourself, your family, to other people and then spread that love to everybody around you so that we can change the world, like essentially by changing yourself and loving yourself and then loving everything around you. I just want to share with everybody that, you know, whether you're listening to this on a podcast

Starting point is 00:46:44 or watching this on YouTube, you're listening to Billy and you're saying, oh, wow, what a great guy. But to a certain extent, you're wondering if like this is really how he is. So we recently worked on a project together. and we we hosted a retreat called ironically perfect another complete topic that we could talk about for hours we called it ignite the light within ignite your inner light and the whole concept of that is very much conducive to what we're talking about is that you already had something inside of you let's see what it is let's ignite it you know watching billy and valeria it's very interesting to work with people that don't need to be right about things like you'll notice whenever you're

Starting point is 00:47:26 you ask him a question, his answer is always in response to what's best for the individual. I don't even know if he knows he's doing that because that's just so what he is. So I just want everybody to understand this is a rare opportunity. I watch a lot of videos on YouTube about ayahuasca experiences. And, you know, if Billy and I shared just actual experiences, you guys would love it. It would be very entertaining. He could get some popcorn and a soda and love that show. And maybe we'll do that sometime.

Starting point is 00:47:57 We'll have like the world's craziest ayahuasca experiences. But those would be our experiences and not yours. And it also might be a conflict for you to decide what you want to do. But you guys are listening to somebody that is about as authentic as anybody I've ever met. So, you know, I hope that you're picking up on that. You're laughing. What do you want to say? Oh, no.

Starting point is 00:48:20 I'm just thinking about all the experiences. Because we obviously, for example, always have group shares. The amount, so I've heard many different visions. I've also dealt with people going through their experiences. And sometimes like that experience turns into like a physical experience. So I've seen physical representations of experiences and vision and the visions and teachings and messages. And I'm just thinking about like some of them coming to my mind, which I find very funny.

Starting point is 00:48:52 Some of them can be very intense as you. as you clear the energy. I was thinking about you saying about Pokemon. Like, this is earlier you mentioned Pokemon or something. And like everything that you observed. Augmented reality. Exactly. And like, but everything that you observe exterior,

Starting point is 00:49:12 like everything that you're exposed to goes in. So it's in there somewhere. Some of it doesn't have any relevance or service to your highest authentic self. So as you come to these medicines, obviously, sometimes you can purge that. And they can just be in like random thoughts and as it cleanses you to restore you. But I was just thinking about some of these experiences. But again, going back is like, no matter what the person's experience is, whether it's like really happy or really sad or easy or difficult, almost always by the end,

Starting point is 00:49:48 I would say like the higher percent in the 90s percent comes back to the word love to re-fall in love with themselves and with their family and with nature and with connection and community. Yeah, I love to reference it. And for those of you that are interested in learning more, Billy and I and Jose host every month. And we'll put this information in the show notes, something called the AIME, the Aiyahuasca Integration Mastermind, where we, you know, just open up a Zoom room and just invite all, anyone that's part of the Arcana family. but anyone that's curious on the outside looking in or has experienced plant medicine. It's because our passion is about doing the work, not just having a jacuzzi experience

Starting point is 00:50:35 and expecting that, you know, because you drank something, everything's going to change. So if you want to come check it out and feel the vibe of the community and maybe hear some of these stories, you look in the show notes for that. I just find this whole conversation so fascinating because here we are people that have experienced it and we have that knowledge. You know, we've, we've taken this unknown that somebody else looks at and says, what's it like? So we went to that unknown and now it's part of our known. And it's really impossible for us to explain something that is unknown to somebody else because everybody's experience is different. You know, we all have this movie projection called our

Starting point is 00:51:19 experience. So what I would love to just say that maybe it would help people have a little bit of clarity is I found that plant medicine, whether it was a good time or a bad time, what it really does is yes, it ignites this fire within you, this light within you. But what it really does is it offers you safe passage to come back home to yourself. Because if you think about it, most of what people are struggling. And this might lend without directly saying it to the person that says, who is it for? I find that people come into this world fairly perfect, and then along the way, they're just programmed from the outside forces to believe in certain things and look at the world in a certain way. And we lose track.

Starting point is 00:52:01 And more importantly, we find our way straying from home. And what I mean by that is to ourselves. What I find is that plant medicine is a wonderful, wonderful tool, especially if it's done right with the right kind of people to just simply come home to yourself. Would you say that that is what you have learned at this time? Through your experiences with the different blood medicines. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:23 Yeah. So you see. So that's my experience. But this is the thing. That's your teaching. That's not your experience. Your experience was all these things that you're talking about having conversations with mystra, having a maestro on your mat, Pokemon, and having, like,

Starting point is 00:52:43 this augmented reality experience, but the teaching that you got from the experience, the lesson. The lesson. The takeaways. Exactly. Exactly. It's coming home to yourself. And home is where the heart is, right? So it's coming home to the heart within yourself, which is your true nature, right? It's the essence of yourself. And that lesson that you have learned through your experience and then your understanding of the experience you had, which was entirely different to everybody else's experience, but is the same lesson as almost everybody gets from going through this process. That's the love. So, yeah, so their experience, everybody's experience is completely different,

Starting point is 00:53:35 and they go through a completely different journey, but eventually everyone comes to the same lesson. And that's the beauty of the medicine and that's the beauty of the teaching of these plant teachers. And actually, I have been talking to Valeria about this a lot recently because I have access to medicines almost when I want them. But I feel the need for none of them, especially right now. like I once you once you really like understand this

Starting point is 00:54:12 coming home to yourself and then you start integrating just in your being just being in love with the day with the moment with the people around you you don't necessarily need medicine

Starting point is 00:54:25 you can come to them if you feel cool to but you can find peace just eternal peace exactly it's an eternal peace in the eternal peace present always. Yeah, it's such a fascinating thing because we've been, and this is a bit of a

Starting point is 00:54:40 controversial conversation, but Billy and I and Valeria, we've been having these in-depth conversations about this idea, if a plant medicine trip, it would be silly for me to even say this, but I'm just going to have fun because I can say it, but if a plant mission trip was perfectly executed and it did what it's supposed to do hypothetically, and it's different for everybody, would you still need to use plant medicine at the end, or would you come home to this idea that you are the medicine. And then you look at something like Wimhoff breathing or ice plunges and all these other avenues in yoga, you know, and Kria and all of that stuff. And by the way, if you've never heard about Kria yoga, look it up because it's like totally amazing and different.

Starting point is 00:55:23 Any sort of a mechanism, even if it's natural, meaning you're not ingesting something or something like that, you're still using it in the same way that somebody's using medicine to come home to yourself. So the idea, and I think you're sitting in that space right now, and I find myself there too, that I embody that. I still practice meditation, and I still plan on working with plant medicine. I don't know what the next step would be with that. And I like to exercise, and I like to eat right and things like that. It's more now something that just supports who I already am. I'm not, I no longer find myself trying to change who I am. Yeah, and you could look at just like on a very simple level, which is we still need to breathe, we still need to eat.

Starting point is 00:56:12 These are all essential tools to sustain yourself, exactly, for nourishment. Watering the soil. So in the same way, like meditation, or if it's crea or yoga or plant medicine, all of these things are just nourishing the soil, that they're all just sustaining and keeping you nourished. But the essence of your being once you find that never changes. Like sometimes it might become contaminated again

Starting point is 00:56:45 and you might need to purify that through practice. But the essence, once you know your essence, you know it's there and it's always there. Billy's one of the only people that I've ever met in my life that very much like me says things like, I'm not going to talk for too long and then speaks for an hour. Billy and I, we have these great conversations and it's so cool that we have them on the podcast right now.

Starting point is 00:57:10 And obviously we're going to need to do this again because there's so, as we went through this hour, there were so many things that I want to get into. My last question, and, you know, I don't know how you're going to answer this after this conversation, but is, what would you say your favorite plant medicine is? Look at him going through the Rolodex in his head like, fuck. But I think he knows. Well, it's funny. because I used to say, oh, this is my favorite plant medicine.

Starting point is 00:57:37 And then I'd speak to someone else. I'd be like, that's my favorite plant medicine. And I realized, like, they were all my favorite plant medicines. But I actually kind of have, I kind of have an answer, and I kind of don't. As with everything we've talked about. Which is, ayahuasca is, for me, the hardest. Yeah, the hardest. like she can slap you around a little bit, which you can need.

Starting point is 00:58:05 Yeah. I don't always necessarily enjoy that process. I enjoy the outcome of that process. I would say that's actually profoundly one of the most healing once you have gone through the process. Unfortunately. Yeah. But for and for insight, like recently, to be honest, San Pedro for me is, I find to be a beautiful medicine.

Starting point is 00:58:32 Again, with the right person, with the right maestro, in the right setting. I recently went for a walk into the mountains in the Sacred Valley with San Pedro and the San Pedro Maestro, who is his own beautiful human being. And finally, his philosophies are very close to like Buddhist philosophies, but he doesn't know anything about Buddhism, which is very interesting. but he's learned this all from the channel of the medicine. But the reason for that why San Pedro is one presently that I really love is because it's not, I mean, it can be intense.

Starting point is 00:59:11 It's not like these crazy visions and this intense process. It's a connection with your heart and it's a connection with nature. And once you have learned, actually what you need is you don't need much just to reconnect. And in that reconnection comes your understanding, just enough understanding to reconnect to the space of love and to understand your place or your being as a individualized expression of one or a child of the universe.

Starting point is 00:59:44 Universe. Universe is like one song, universe. And that song of the universe is, well, a song is vibration and frequency. like a melody. And what that is, that vibration and frequency is love. So when you, Isaiah, you're a child of the universe. It's the same as saying you're a child of love. And it's a reconnection.

Starting point is 01:00:06 Sometimes you just need a little bit when you're going down this path. I was funnily talking to the San Pedro Maestro in the mountains. And I was watching the river. And I realized like the river always returns to the ocean. But the river winds like this, and sometimes it hits rocks and it goes up and down like this. But eventually it will reach the ocean and the ocean is love. So your path can go a little bit like this. And sometimes you just need to remember or something to reconnect to the understanding

Starting point is 01:00:43 that eventually I'll return to love. And to return to love is to return to your own self. When you get to know Billy, he's very, very loving and when he, when he, He knows somebody that is, like he's talking about these maestroes and different people, and you'll always hear people, Billy referred to people. He says, that man is pure love. But nobody ever gets to say that enough about Billy, because Billy is pure love. I'm going to put up, I believe I have it right here.

Starting point is 01:01:12 Yeah, you can follow Billy on Instagram. That's his handle. It'll be in the notes. It's B and then, period, and then his last name, but I'll put it in the notes. A lot of, a lot of excitement. stuff, you know, to be transparent when I met Billy, the first thing I noticed, just because I'm a little bit of an old dog and I've got a lot of big plans and I've done some big stuff. I just saw Billy and I said, you know, this guy is going to be a world changer.

Starting point is 01:01:39 That's how our friendship began and, you know, we've got some projects that we're working on and there'll be more coming. But follow this guy because he's got a big vision. but, you know, I've been around long enough to know that Billy is not only going to be a successful person, but he's going to be successful at changing the world. Make sure that you keep your eye on this guy. Any final words as we close out? No, I was just thinking.

Starting point is 01:02:04 Imagine. Yeah, so as an individual, like, we're all responsible for the life that we create. And what you create will be dependent on whether you create with love or fear. That will be the life that you create. As a collective consciousness or a global consciousness, we are responsible for the reality we create for each one of us, everyone and the earth itself. So imagine if we all return to love or we could play a part in helping or guiding people on that return to love, to return to love within ourselves primarily, and then start creating from a space of love, which then ripple effects. into the cosmic ocean. So we actually do change the world through love,

Starting point is 01:02:52 through consciousness, collective consciousness and manifestation with the intention guided by the vibration of love. Like I just think that that's, it's beautiful. It's like really, really beautiful and it's possible, but it starts with you. It starts with me, it starts with you. And then like our partners, like Valeria,

Starting point is 01:03:17 It's my next person, like your wife. And it starts with each one of us. It's like the man in the mirror, right? It's like only you can make that change. And in you making that change, you will automatically contribute to change in the world. Yeah, to live from love and do the best you can. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:03:38 Be the change you wish to see. It's just such a fascinating thing. And I'll put a bow on it. I'm definitely going to have another conversation with Billy. We might as well. record the conversations that we had. I just love the idea of just chipping away. You know, I love Pink Floyd, and there's this one, you know, part of the song, I think it's comfortably numb when it just says something like chipping away the moments that make up a dull day or something

Starting point is 01:04:04 like that. I love this idea of shedding that which no longer applies, that which we are not. And that's what plant medicine has done for me. That's what my relationship and these conversations done for me. And I hope that this conversation and this episode has helped people, perhaps in one way, get out of their own way and allow themselves to get rid of things that just don't apply in their lives. And the value of that is to what Billy just said is, you know, that would be your first step of potentially creating a cascade because everyone will take notice when you cut the fat in your life. And they just might find their way to do the same. You talk about shedding skin.

Starting point is 01:04:45 right or like shedding every moment is a new moment you can't live in a moment in a future you can't live in a moment in a past you're always in the present moment and in each every present moment is a new moment a fresh moment that wasn't the one before so every moment is shedding the moment before like this is impermanence and nature right like everything is constantly changing and learning to accept that just as it is is learning peace in the present. But if we're looking at your point, you're shedding from moment to moment, you're reborn moment to moment. So in this moment, you get to choose who you become, what path you take, what you want to create, who you want to be, are the relationships you want to restore, whether you live from love, whether you live from fear. And that is the gift of the human experience of free will. So in this moment, which is the new moment, you've shed the last moment, who do you choose to be, how do you choose to show up? Like, what's your intention in this moment? Obviously, my encouragement for myself is to choose love, always. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for

Starting point is 01:06:01 being here, my friend, my brother, looking so much forward to everything that we're going to do together as well as you're going to do. And I mean, we're all doing everything together if you really think about it. But this was beautiful. And I can't wait until we have our next conversation. And I think everybody that listened to this episode today got a not only got a good episode, but, you know, met somebody that probably gives them a little bit more hope in the world. So thanks so much, my friend. Makes sense.

Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - Making Sense of Plant Medicine Retreats - with Billy Venkatraman

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