Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - One From The Vault - Making Sense of Porn Addiction with Heather Nielsen

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

What is your current reality, stance, and past experience with Pornography? No matter what it is, Pornography is here and is having a massive impact on humanity. Dragon is stepping into this controversial and sensitive realm with special guest and author of FIGHT THE BEAST, Heather Nielsen. Heather works passionately in Porn Addiction Recovery and has a powerful and solution-focused message to share with us. This episode is now available on both Apple and Spotify    Watch Interview on Youtube: https://youtu.be/T9PXlvHf4MQ   This episode os from 2022 and considered to be ONE FROM THE VAULT of the previous RISE UP WITH DRAGON Podcast.   Follow Healther Nielsen: IG: @fightthebeastorg  Book On Amazon: https://amzn.to/3XARtHX  Website: https://fightthebeast.org/our-mission  Connect WIth Dr. JC Doornick “The Dragon”: https://zez.am/makessense  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hmm, makes sense. Today is an interesting topic. It's on porn addiction with our special guest, author of Fight the Beast. Really excited about this topic and this human being that we have. Let me just give you a quick little background on our guest, Heather Nielsen. Heather is the founder of Fight the Beast, and she's a top-selling author and influencer in the area of porn addiction recovery. Her organization, Fight the Beast, offers a comprehensive recovery program and supportive community, which I think is super cool, with members from over 30 countries.

So this is not just a U.S. thing. Taking a unique, shame-free approach to the topic, Heather explains the risks. She unveils and explains the risks of porn and gives hope to those seeking to quit it for good. In her new book, Fight the Beast, the proven 30-day system for quitting porn and sexual addictions, she teaches. which is a simple 30-day system. And we all love 30-day systems for recovery. And that's worked for thousands of people. As a single mom, she and her children have been deeply affected by pornography

through the addictions of others, which has fueled her passion for the cause. So I want to welcome the amazing Heather Nielsen to the Rise Up with Dragon Show. How are you? Good morning. Yes. I'm excited to be here and I'm doing great. Awesome. So it was great to meet you. That's one of the things I love about, one of the things, you know, I love about social media to the three things that, how it causes trouble, but get to meet people. And that's what's so cool about bumping into random people out of the eight, seven, eight billion people out there. And when I met you, I just immediately said, first of all, amazing topic. It's a topic that evokes a lot of curiosity from me. And it was great to meet you because not only do you know a lot about the topic, but you're very, very passionate about it. So before we get into, to any particulars and I let you know what I want to know. Tell me a little bit and let everybody

know a little bit about your backstory because, you know, obviously you've been impacted by this. Whenever I see somebody all in trying to help other human beings with something, there's a backstory. So let us know a little bit more about yourself. Absolutely. So I had seen pornography destroy the lives of so many men that I loved. Parents, relatives, friends, partners. And And after realizing kind of how limited the resources were out there, I really committed to finding a way to help. I didn't really see a program that was available to help the people that I loved and I wanted to create something and to spread awareness on how damaging pornography can be. I really just woke up one morning, totally out of the blue. It was five, I remember it was 5.30 in the

morning. And I woke up, no alarm or anything. And I just had this crazy idea. I want to create the opposite of only fans, a place where I can teach people about recovery, where they can come and get accountability and support. And I called my mom. She was in another country, so she was awake. So I called her and I was like, hey, I have this crazy idea. And she's like, you're nuts.

And then I called my grandma. And she was like, you're nuts. And I was like, I don't care. I'm going to do it. And since then, you know, we've put in a lot of work on researching and formulating the perfect steps and tools and strategies for people who are interested in recovery.

Yeah, you know, that's one of the things I was curious about, because I've had my own example of me, like, taking a charge at something and having your family that, like, only wants you to, like, thrive and do, like, somewhat normal things. Just I was wondering what your family must have said the day you were like, hey, I'm going to do this. But at the same time, they probably also were in the know of the why behind it. Just to put some context to it, how, I mean,

and the best way you can explain on a live show, show, how were you affected by it? Because I mean, I can see that you observed not only these people that were close to you, but also I know it had a lot of impact. And I think it's important for people to know, it's like having an addiction of any sort is not just something that affects the person and affects the people around them. So how did that affect you and your family, your own experience? Yeah. So ultimately, I didn't grow up with a dad and, well, with my biological father. And that was a major issue for why my mom left. Later on, I didn't know this growing up, but as I got older, I kind of realized that the reason why my stepfather was not connecting with me, like why I didn't

have an emotional connection with him, was likely due to problems with this issue. So I didn't really grow up with a supportive dad. I never heard I love you like from either person. So in following the statistics, I ended up getting married at 18 to somebody that, first of all, had this addiction, but then was kind of abusive and, you know, decided to be homosexual. So that was, you know, a rocky marriage, but I had two kids from that marriage. So now I'm a single mom, right? So then I get married again. And same thing. He really, he was a soldier, really struggled with this addiction, you know, deployments and things. And the marriage was extremely rocky. He was very emotionally volatile, struggled a lot in and out of kind of just

emotional issues regarding the addiction. And so, yeah, on that, when I decided to create Fight the Beast, I think it was because my children, I kind of started realizing my children don't have a father or a grandfather in their life. The 76-year-old man who lived in the apartment below us, I could hear him watching porn at night through the floorboards. And it was really sad. It really bothered me hearing, like, I don't know, just, I could just tell he was in an emotionally struggling place. place. And then I just kind of looked around and I was like, wow, you know, every guy tried to date was kind of like, I'm just kind of in a rocky place with my faith or my spirituality. You know, I struggle with this and that. And I'm like, okay, too many men are struggling. We've got to do something about it.

So here's where I'm going in my mind right now. And one of the things I find fascinating, you know, I read a book a long time ago and I just pulled one concept from it. It was called, I think it was called when God winks. So, you know, I'm just somebody that like is always curious at, as to not only why the universe sends us certain messages or things to see, but also why we take note of them. But it just seems like for some, I mean, because porn is everywhere. You know, I mean, everybody's aware of it. But for some reason, you were maybe even, I dare I say, guided to really take notice.

I mean, like, I'm sure there's tons of people out there that know that this is a problem and it's affecting them. Some people are being affected by the negative ramifications of something that they don't know this caused by porn, but for some reason, you were almost like guided to see that in the place that you're in now with Fight the Beast and all of this great work that you're doing, do you kind of feel like in some sort of a way those things that happened kind of happened for you rather than to you in a way? Absolutely. I went through a really emotionally difficult time in the second marriage when I found porn. And they actually had to put me in the hospital because I was having panic attacks.

I was like, holy crap, I just did this again. I'm going to go through the same roller coaster. And I was really scared. I would hear female singers on the radio and have a full-blown panic attack because of it. Because I was raised so naive and I didn't even really know what pornography was getting married the first time. And so here I am like, what is going on? And the really interesting thing is I was really angry about it for a while. And I had kind of these PTSD symptoms, like full-blown panic attacks, like hospital grade.

And over time, I healed from that. I moved on. I got to a good place in my mental health. And now looking back, I'm like, I am so grateful. I don't know how that happened. But somehow the universe took a completely naive, totally unaware girl and pushed me into now a path that is changing thousands of lives. and I'm so grateful for that. Yeah, like this is a big theme of my life

and a lot of the work that I do. You know, it has to do with your relationship and your belief system and faith and things like that. But, you know, I just think that that everything that we need is provided if you're conscious and awake to it. And also it rattled you for some reason too. This is another way I think that the universe

makes you take note of things. So just to kind of look at the factual side of it because you gave me some interesting statistics because I think there's a combination of people watching. Some people are watching and assessing their own secret exposure to it and knowledge of it. Some people are like, oh yeah, I have a problem. That's why I'm tuning in. Some people are like, I don't think it's a problem because it hasn't caused a problem yet.

And some people are kind of in the middle. So tell us a little bit about what we know about how big this problem is. What are the statistics? Yeah. So one of the most important may be that at least 60 to 70% of all divorce filings involve of pornography as a cause. Whether it's the woman or the man, this is not just a man issue. Whether it's the woman or the man, people are getting divorced and pornography is a major factor in that. 47% of men report that their viewing is getting darker, which I think you mentioned we might

talk more about in a little bit, but what they used to think was unacceptable or disgusting or inappropriate has now been normalized in their life. So that one's a really scary statistic. It crosses people of all faiths, all walks of life. About 98% of men are watching pornography and about 70% of women now. COVID spiked those numbers for sure. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsor. The Make Saints podcast is sponsored by the Make Saints Academy, co-created by both myself, Meeker, aka The Chicken, and The Dragon.

The Make Saints Academy is a live interactive community. We're like-minded, solution-focused, cure. Seekers of Expansion, gather daily in a mastermind setting with both Chicken and Dragon, where they have access to premium content, online courses, and powerful collaboration and networking, all for $24 a month. The Make Sense Academy and its members are solely responsible for funding the Make Sense podcast. So feel free to reach out to us at www. Rise UpwithDragon.com and check out the Make Sense Academy.

Risk free. with a money back guarantee. Now, back to the Makes Sense podcast. 98%. I'm just wondering, like, if that guy that's watching or listening to this episode that has never watched porn, and also I want you to specify, like, what age at typically? You've never watched porn. Come find me, because you would be a case study. Yeah, we want to interview you. Like, yeah, we want to know, like, what happened. But this is important. Two things I want to know, because that person would be a unicorn. 98%. There's two things that pop up. First of all, if I find out that I'm doing something that 98% of other men do,

it almost makes me not feel that it's so bad. That's one thing that pops up, right? It's like everybody's doing it. So I'd love you to kind of take that 98% and maybe tell us how many of those 98% are having a problem. But then also, what age does it typically start? Because I remember when I was a kid, like the most devious thing that I could do, Dragons 51, the most devious thing I could ever do was like have a magazine under my bed, which was not pornography. It was like, I guess what we would now call soft porn. But like back then, it was like, it was crazy. But now kids have access. I mean, like, how old are kids that, you know, when does this problem start? Yeah. So pornography today with its ease of access and highly addictive delivery methods is nothing like the magazine under the bed of

the 80s at all. It is more destructive and damaging than ever before, which is, why it's a massive problem now, and it's affecting people a lot deeper and a lot worse. So a lot of times, if we're looking at today's generation, well, almost all of the men that I work with actually started between the age of 10 and 15. Nowadays, a child's first exposure to porn is likely to be around age 7. So whenever parents start handing their kid, an iPad, letting them use it on their own is if they can write words, they're going to be Googling something or suggestions on YouTube, things like that. And so by age seven now, most kids are kind of starting to see some stuff.

But usually around age 10 to 15 is where they start watching. It starts becoming more of a curiosity thing. And it escalates from there into puberty. A lot of times for men, you know, they're just more sexually charged. And so they start watching more. It becomes more difficult to quit. Masturbation, things like that, start showing up. And then from there it escalates.

You know, it's almost the same for everyone. They start watching more. And then they come into their college years. They think, oh, when I get married or in a relationship, I'll stop. And then they don't. And now they've destroyed relationships or marriages. And at that point, you know, some people might seek help. It's really amazing because I have a 19-year-old and a 17-year-old.

And as far as I can see, they're just like angels, I mean, or a pain in the but sometimes, but you know what I mean? Like, I mean, they're just thriving, respectful young men. And I have a 12-year-old daughter. And I'm just thinking, like, I really don't know everything, you know, that's happened. I guess maybe they're just in whatever exposure and throw that they're in. But, yeah, I would assume that that is one of the biggest problems. And there's so many questions that I want to ask, and I want to make sure that I ask them in the right context because- Let me throw. Yeah, go ahead. While we're here on the parenting issue, let me just throw in a couple statistics there because I hear that a lot, a lot of parents are like, oh, my, I don't think my

kid does. They very most likely are. 57% of teens search for porn monthly. 51% of males and 32% of females viewed porn before their teenage years. And let's see, 90% of teens are either encouraging or accepting of porn when they talk about it with their friends. So I hate to tell parents like your child is, but if you don't know with 100% certainty that they're not, the chances are that they probably aren't at something that you might want to look into. Yeah. And you know, like how can somebody truly prevent their kids? I mean, as parents, whether it's porn or substance abuse or whatever, I mean, there comes a time where they're going to have their opportunity, whether it's an internet thing or being with friends. It's just

the way the universe works. So, you know, I would, I just, as a parent, you know, I, just assume that, you know, it's just about just the morals that they see that they grow up with and, you know, teaching them how to make good decisions and stuff. Tell me a little bit more about because there's a psychological component to this. For me, I speak a lot about this idea that whatever it is that we deem our reality, we make assumptions about the way the world works and we make decisions in life. One of my quotes that I'm known for saying is that which we consume, we assume. We end up assuming. Because everybody's going to, they know it's there and just curiosity is going to drive them to look at and see what it's like. And I guess 2% of them say, oh, that's not for me or they never get there. But what is the actual psychological brain screwing that's going on? When people start to watch this, I mean, once or twice is one thing. But when people start to do it on a regular basis and consume it, it actually rewires their brain in a way, I would assume. Yeah, so one in 200 men who are addicted are willing to admit that it's an addiction.

Now, as you said in the intro, we do take a shame-free approach to all of this. So we're not saying that you watch porn and you're a horrible person, but what we do tend to look at is these negative effects of porn and how it changes you over time and what the risks are, which are very, very real for everybody. So when we look at that 98%. So we said 98% are now, which has increased like 60% since the 90s. So it's a very serious rapid increase.

This is not something that we're just saying like, oh, all men always have. No, this is a serious today issue. They call it, you know, the pornemic, right? It was the documentary. And typically what happens, you know, as it progresses, right, we said, 47% of men are viewing something darker than they used to watch. It very frequently, unfortunately, affects people's sexuality. It affects what they're attracted to. It can cause gender dysphoria, which we just consider a negative symptom or a potentially negative symptom

if somebody doesn't want that. And there's a lot of less obvious symptoms such as ADHD or or adrenal fatigue or depression, feeling more tired than normal, lower testosterone, erectile dysfunction, all of these things. They go unnoticed and untalked about because they aren't, oh, I became a pedophile, oh no.

And so a lot of times people aren't talking about it, but they're so very real in how they affect the average man's daily life. Yeah, you know, what's interesting, I practiced as a chiropractor, so, you know, it was primary for about 17 years. And I've done thousands and thousands of exams and some of the symptoms that you just talked about presented. And I never said on my intake form, like, do you watch porn?

So it's like it's completely off the radar. And I think it's, I mean, for one thing, it's so accessible and it's so free. 98% of men do it. 57% or so of women do it. So it's like it's kind of socially, you know, if you're following the herd, it's kind of socially accepted until, Maybe you come up and you hear this podcast or it causes a problem, but it's not an easily diagnosed problem. So I guess one thing I'd let to know is how do you know that you're addicted?

Like if somebody's listening right now and they watch it and they're wondering, like, is this me? How do you know that you're addicted to porn? The biggest thing we say, if you want to really figure out if you're addicted, is do a 30-day challenge or a 15-day challenge. And if you can go those 15 days easy, you're probably not addicted. Now, is it still potentially a problem in your life? Absolutely.

It can still lead to erectile dysfunction, eroded gray matter in the brain, hyperfrontality, adrenal fatigue, all these serious brain issues, mental health issues. But at least you can say you're not addicted. Now, if you struggle or relapse or change your mind, right? Because relapse is changing your mind. It's where a guy says, oh, this is a stupid 15. day challenge, I don't feel like it anymore. If you catch yourself relapsing when you committed to not, then it's, I mean, certifiably an addiction for sure. It's so fascinating. I mean,

there's probably an hour's worth of curious questions that I could ask you. I mean, because it's just every time you speak, it just other scenarios start to come up. It's like, I would assume that there's a group of people out there that actually look at it as a, as something they're doing to get something else accomplished, if you know what I'm saying, and almost probably think that it's a good thing. It's like it's actually something that they need and stuff. So the only thing that I'll say in observation

and listening to what you've said is the reason why I think that it should be looked at more is because it's not on the radar. It's almost like a silent killer. And any time that there's something going on and we start learning bits and pieces, And I would assume after you hear this podcast, you'll probably, for whatever reason, start seeing it pop up more and more and more. But, you know, whenever you see something happening and there's like somebody's pinpointing an upstream cause of all these things, it's worth taking a look at. And, you know, it's just you get to this place where you say, you know, do I want to thrive or do I want to just sleepwalk through life?

And, you know, this would be because, I mean, if you look at social media right now, all the personal growth, like I'm very interpersonal growth. both quotes and stuff, I always see these like 30-day challenges, get rid of porn and all that. So I think everybody can relate to that. So I guess my next question as we kind of come to the end, how do you stop it? And that's a two-place question. If you are consciously, you know, aware right now that you have a problem, how do you stop it? But also, how does fight the beast fight this beast? I mean, I know how you can help the individual, but I mean, I'm 51 and I've watched this thing grow. It's a bonfire.

And I can't imagine how prostitution and pornography is going to do anything but grow. So I'd love to hear your take as we close on like, how do you help the individual? And also what can be done about this problem for our children to come? Yeah. So the first thing is you use the word problem. And it's kind of, you know, the individual has to say for themselves, I don't want this in my life anymore. I want to be better.

I want to do better. Those 2% if we want to really focus on what those 2% are doing, they're happier, they're healthier, their families are stable. And unfortunately, we're in a society where that is extremely rare. So if those are the things that you want, and you want not just to get away from the shame, but really to get the benefits,

the better sex life, the happier, healthier, more focused, less distracted, If you really want all of that and you think it's a problem, that's the first step. The next thing is there's a reason why people stay addicted, and that's typically because they don't have the tools to overcome it. The first one that we suggest is follow a strategy, follow something that's proven that other people are doing. If you're trying to get a truck stuck out of the mud,

you can't just keep spinning your tires. That doesn't work. You need to do something else, right? get someone to help pull you out, put logs under your tires, whatever it is so that you can get out. And that's the second one is seek out help or accountability, right? Ideally, professional help if you can find it, but definitely some sort of accountability partner that knows what they're doing and they're going to be there to support you in a non-judgmental way.

And so that's basically what we created with Fight the Beast because, first of all, it's really difficult. Who are you going to tell about, you're going to call your dad and be like, hey, I have this. No, you're not going to tell your partner, your wife. Nobody wants to do that.

And so we have provided, we have a free community that men can join and find an accountability partner and share how they're doing every day and ask questions, hey, this feels funny, what do I do? Or is this a problem? Or what do I do in the mornings when I'm struggling?

And so we created that community. we have an online course and also my book that basically shows people the parts of their brain that they need to rewire. It's a workbook. So it takes you kind of through those steps. So that's kind of our curriculum that just leads people to where they need to be mentally so that they can overcome it, quit long term. And then I do the coaching and personal coaching as well. So, you know, just like quitting smoking and a lot of people also, you know, when they get so, entrenched in some sort of an addiction and it becomes their identity, the idea of even quitting, it could even give them anxiety. I mean, like, if, I would assume if somebody attempted to do a 1530 day no porn and they struggled with it, that would be when they realized how much they needed.

So it's a real thing, you know, it's a real thing that people, so that's very, very cool what you said, because it's a smart approach to actually first get to that place where you want to do it. Eckhart Tolle has a great quote about suffering. He says the first step to end suffering is the acknowledgement that you are, right? So that's the first thing probably you'd need to do is uncover that you have a problem if you didn't know before this. And then the next step after you uncover that you are would be this decision that you don't want to suffer anymore.

We have that quote in the book. Yeah. Okay, cool. So we're aligned in that. So that's awesome. Well, I think calling it a beast is a great thing to do. It's a big beast, and it doesn't seem to be going away. And, you know, as we look at the, I mean, God, you're going to have to go help people in the

Metaverse now. You know, I mean, like, we're about to actually enter. We have another podcast called NFTs Made Simple when we talk about cryptocurrency, NFTs, and Metaverse. And we're starting to see the signs of forget about like me watching porn. How about like creating an avatar of the ultimate version of me and going and interacting with it in this digital world. So I think my standpoint from an awareness thing and from it as a parent and as a man, I think what needs to happen is we just first need to recognize that it's a thing, right? It's not,

you know, not just push it away because you've never abused somebody or you claim that everything's working out for you. Just acknowledge it for yourself and for others. And I think it's important to also take a look at the ramifications projected in where we're going right now as a race. what I mean? And I guess what we need to do is just one person at a time. I mean, I'm starting to see men's groups like personal growth, retreats and stuff, and that be a big focus of it now. So there's a lot of work being done. And if you check out, you know, Heather on her social media, she's aligned with other groups of people that are probably in support of that. So Heather, this has been very, very informative. It's just such an interesting conversation.

Anybody that watches or listens to this is going to be thinking about it, doing a nice healthy self-assessment, not something to label yourself as a bad person. Maybe you're just waking up to it right now. And that's the first step before you can do something about it. Any final words? I mean, obviously everything about Heather, we will put in the show notes and under the video and stuff. But any final mission-based approaches or words that you want to say to the audience? Yeah. It's so important to me that people focus on the benefits here, not just the negative side. because not in all cases, not all people will be able to see. If they've been doing this for 30 years, it's hard to see how your life can be different.

But I encourage people to do more research and take maybe the opinions and advice of people who have quit, listen to what they have to say about how it changes your life, how it improves your life. And if anyone's truly interested in bettering themselves financially, physically, mentally or spiritually, I think this needs to be top of their radar. Henry David Thoreau said when we're talking about masculinity that this is the foundation, that chastity is the foundation for all other successes. And so it's something really worthwhile in looking into.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. Looking forward to continuing our friendship. And it's pretty cool for me that, because I coach lots and lots of people, and I know a lot of people. and I never really knew where to send somebody that did have a problem like this.

I think men in general would just feel comfortable acknowledging that they had a problem and then they could just go around having the problem but saying at least I admit it. So I love the proactive approach. So thanks everybody. Thanks Heather for being here. This has been another Rise Up a Dragon.

Don't forget to check Heather out. All of our information will be in the show notes. We always love when you go subscribe to our podcast, specifically iTunes, rate us and review us. and everybody have a wonderful, wonderful and blessed day. Makes sense.