Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - Reasons You're Undercharging at Work — And the Money Coach Who Spent 25 Years Fixing It with - Jen Fontanilla - E175

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Money coach Jen Fontanilla spent 25 years designing for Disney before cracking the code on creative worth. Here's why you're undercharging — and how to stop. She spent 25 years creating packaging for Disney, Sony, and Target. She was good at her job — great, actually. But here's what nobody knew: she had no idea how to handle her own money. None. And she is not alone — because if you are a creative, a designer, a writer, a maker of any kind, the system was literally built to keep you broke and grateful for it. Today's guest is Jen Fontanilla — TEDx speaker, seven-time author, and the woman who turned her own financial rock bottom into a career dismantling the 'Starving Artist' myth one belief at a time. We are going to get into why you keep undercharging, why your childhood shaped your rates, and the one mindset shift that changes everything. Do not go anywhere.   Connect With Jen: IG: @itsjenfontanilla Book: The Creative Code: https://amzn.to/43ADfZI LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenfontanilla     Dr. JC Doornick Links: Web - www.makessensebook.com YT -    / @drjcdoornick IG -   / @drjcdoornick FB -   / @makessensepodcast Makes Sense Book - https://tinyurl.com/makessensepurchase   MAKES SENSE PODCAST Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast. This podcast explores topics that expand human consciousness and enhance performance. On the Makes Sense Podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works, and that perception is subjective and an acquired taste. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at begin to change. Welcome to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses. Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast.   SUBSCRIBE/RATE/REVIEW & SHARE our new podcast. FOLLOW Podcast: You will find a "Follow" button in the top right. This will enable the podcast software to alert you when a new episode launches each week. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/makes-sense-with-dr-jc-doornick/id1730954168 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1WHfKWDDReMtrGFz4kkZs9?si=003780ca147c4aec   Podcast Affiliates: Kwik Learning: Many people ask me where I get all these topics, which I've been covering for almost 15 years. I have learned to read nearly four times faster and retain information 10 times better with Kwik Learning. Learn how to learn and earn with Jim Kwik. Get his program at a special discount here: https://jimkwik.com/dragon OUR SPONSORS: Makes Sense Academy: A private mastermind and psychologically safe environment full of the Mindset and Action steps that will help you begin to thrive. The Makes Sense Academy. https://www.skool.com/makes-sense-academy/about The Sati Experience: A retreat designed for the married couple that truly loves one another, yet wants to take their love to that higher magical level. Relax, reestablish, and renew your love at the Sati Experience. https://www.satiexperience.com   0:00 - Intro 1:24 - Welcome, Jen Fontanilla 2:09 - What's it like to be you these days 4:42 - When did you first realize that people needed to rewrite their money story 9:05 - The habit wiring behind money problems.  12:46 - Why do people feel guilty about making money 15:39 - Why does somebody that knows they are worth more not charge what they're worth 27:03 - Do people take money too seriously 29:45 - Do you believe you can manifest money into your life? 35:20 - What is the creative code? 41:11 - What's the most important money concept Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever felt like no matter how much you earn, you're still kind of one step away from losing it all. I know I sure have. Or maybe you feel guilty. You might be living out a money story that you didn't even choose. Makes sense. Makes sense. Let me tell you what I like about our guest today, Jen Fontanilla. First of all, what I really appreciate about Jen's work is that she's not just telling creative,

to try harder or to charge more. That would be the hustle culture. Let's be honest, if it were that simple, people would already be doing it, wouldn't they? Instead, she's asking a deeper question. She's saying, why do so many talented people struggle with wealth, even when they're doing great work?

And what she uncovers is that most creatives aren't lacking strategy. They're operating from old family habits with money. And those are beliefs that they inherited, absorbed, and never stopped to just simply question. That's what makes her work so powerful. She's not fixing your finances. She's helping you rewrite your identity around money and removing the wall that you've

unconsciously built between you and the money that is just simply trying to come your way. Jen Fontenia, welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. This has been a long time coming, and I will say for the record, this was my idea. I caught wind of Jen a while back, and I've just gotten into all the work that she does, and I just thought she was perfect for this show and for all of you that are watching and listening. So welcome to the show. Thank you, Daisy. I'm so excited to be here.

When's the last time you had somebody to tell you what they like about you? I don't remember. Maybe a couple of days ago, but, you know, I said thank you. And as of course, very appreciative. But thank you so much for those words that you just shared. I was just like, yeah, 100%. Everything that you said, I just recall in my mind, you know, times when I have said. that or I remember when I would share things like that. So thank you so much for sharing those.

Well, thank you for your work. So my first question I always ask people is, what's it like to be Jen Fontenia these days? Right now, it's super exciting because, you know, as Dragon just mentioned, this is not about a hustle culture. I feel like I've really learned how to move away from that. And one of the things I've been so wonderful is understanding how to do things in an easy and relaxed way. Because listen, how many of you out there are just like, I'm done with the crazy. I'm done with the hustle. It's like we're burning out, right? And I truly believe that being in a calm centered state and still achieving results and your goals is completely possible. I really believe that those things can cohabitate in our lives. And so right now, I'm in a place where there's

this calm and peace. But don't mistake in that. I'm not doing anything because this is where it's really important. You know, I'm in a space right now where creating exciting offers and programs. for myself, but also helping other people. And it's just been fun. You know, that's one of my values, fun and adventure. And so when I think about where I'm at right now, I think about all the great people that are meeting, you know, especially on LinkedIn, that's where I live,

and just making these connections and building relationship and seeing, you know, how does my work reach people that need it? And how do we change this narrative? This hustle culture has to be the way because we're tired. We are so tired of all that. I think we are. And so it's been fun. And that's where I'm at right now,

showing people that there is a different way and that we don't have to competing for being the cheapest and nobody's buying my stuff because there are other ways to look at what it is that you're doing and how to reposition it. So that's where I'm at right now. Oh, that sounds great. There's so many aspects of this conversation

that I'm fascinated with. And it's primarily because of all of the struggle that I have had with money and all of that. I remember my biggest struggle back in the days was that I didn't want anyone to know that I was making money. Isn't that funny? I just remember I was a humanitarian. Like I found myself doing all these things to make people think that I was like this good

person that was altruistic, that like, hey, sure, if you're going to give me money, fine, but it's not what my agenda was. And of course, I never made any money back then. You know, I was always struggling and things like that. And I read a book way back then. This is B.J.F. before Jen Fontenia. I read this book called Harmonic Wealth. And it was written by one of the guys from The Secret, James Arthur Ray, who ended up going to jail for, like, being involved with somebody dying in like a sweat lodge or something.

But the book really, really helped me develop a relationship with money. So that's why I'm so excited about this conversation. My question to you kind of in the same is, what was the first moment that you realized that creatives needed to rewrite their money story and break free from that starving artist narrative? How did that happen for you? because you're so passionate about doing this and I see you doing this all over the place now. How did that all start? Sure. You know, I've been a graphic designer for over 25 years and I think there's a part of that

where I was kind of like on cruise control. And then if you know my story, there was a portion of that where I was a financial advisor and I was in financial services for two decades. As a former, I call it recovery financial advisor and insurance agent. I even did some estate money and mortgages. And as the years went by, I always was drawn back to the creative stuff, the graphic design stuff. And I just couldn't get away from it. And so I just realized like, this is just where I'm supposed to be.

Felt like God, universe, spirit, just kept pulling me back. And so I stopped and paused. And I was looking at what people were going through, especially in the creative space. And then I kept hearing these phrases like, oh, the starving artist or, well, when are you going to get a real job? Whether it was directly towards me or other people were experiencing it. And then I had to ask myself, I was like, where did this even, you know, come from? Like, why do we even have these phrases or these thoughts? And so I got really fascinated.

So when I hung up my liais and let go of securities, I didn't do an investment in retirement planning anymore, I never really wanted to abandon the money side of things. However, I was so fascinated with the money mindset of. And when I got involved with this, you know, nowadays on Instagram and on the internet, you see all this money mindset, manifestation stuff is very commonplace. but at the time when I was getting involved, it was really hard to find things on it. So I ended up on a certification program,

and I was just like, wow, there is a lot of neuroscience involved with this. There is a lot of subconscious programming. I mean, and I have a biology background. I was going to be a doctor. That's another story. And I was so fascinated to see that there are neurotransmitters that fire off, even when we make certain financial decisions. And so it was just so cool to see that there was science involved

with the financial decisions that we make, whether they're good or bad. And I just was fascinated with how all of this tied together. And so all of that being said, going back to the creatives, it was just this thing where I'm like, okay, enough of this. I felt like I got a fight for us. I got to fight for us creatives that, you know, especially if you had parents or family members or anybody that you were growing up around were telling you things. It's like, oh, you know, that's not a real job or like, oh, you want to be a, you want to be an actor,

You want to be a singer. You want to be a musician. That's cute. That's a hobby. But definitely want to make sure you have a backup plan. So when I heard those things, I said, yeah, this is so not true. Thankfully, I'm so grateful that I did have a very successful graphic design career when I had the last job in 2005.

And then even now, I look, this is absolutely not true. I know so many creatives in so many different fields that are wildly successful, happy. And so it's very possible. Say that it's this thing that is so, I'm so passionate about like, no, we have to. to change this narrative because that does not have to be your truth. I love that. I love anybody that has gotten to this place in their evolution transformation where they start to realize that not everything that we think is true. I think that's a really, really important step for everybody in this relationship with money. Be able to, first of all, identify that you have a concept about it, but also dispute it. I think you

probably work with a lot of people that have concepts, but they're not ready to admit that they're concepts. they're just still labeling it as, as you said, the truth. I want to highlight something that you just said. If you have money problems, you could probably make the correlation that it's not my fault, poverty mentality and all that stuff. I got it from my parents. You know, they were always struggling and things. But I love that you mentioned there's a neuroscience component to this.

I'd love to hear a little bit more about this because it seems like you're fascinated with it as well. It seems like if you don't understand the concept of your brain being wired, and James Clear talks about habit transformation, forming habits, whether they're good or bad, they're hard to break. So that's the value of creating good habits. But if you have a habit of having a poverty mentality or having concepts about money that are not serving you, your brain is wired like that. So how did you make that distinction? Like how did you make the connection between neuroscience and money? Because I don't hear anybody else talking about that.

You know, when I was going through the money coaching program, several years back, that's where I really started hearing it. And this is what fascinated me. I'm like, we never talked about this in financial advising. We never talked about the brain. We never talked about neurotransmitters. And of course, I'm geeking out over it because like I mentioned, you know, I have a biology background. And I'm like, gosh, how come I didn't learn this? And when I was going through that, I was fascinated finding out that, for example, people do the retail therapy or, you know, somebody goes to gamble, whether it's online or in person, that's a dopamine hit. Right?

So dopamine is firing off and it feels good. So it's these little quick like, oh, I feel good. Oh, I feel good. And that's why you keep doing it. So those are the kinds of things that I was noticing like, my gosh, this makes so much sense that there are these things that are happening at a biological, physiological level. And then you mentioned too, Dragon about, you know, the brain and the wiring. The other thing that was interesting to hear was that, you know, there's neural

grooves in the brain. And so when you do these habits, again, whether they're good or bad, we have to remember that it's almost like a record player. If you can think of a, back in the day when we had vinyl records, when you look at a vinyl record and there were like these lines, right? And there were lines and lines and lines of information that would create the sound. And the same thing works in the brain, right? So there's every time we're doing something or repeating a pattern, it's as if that line is being created on that record, right? And in your brain. So every time we're doing these habits, you're pretty much creating these lines in your brain saying like, oh, this is what we do. Oh, this is what we do. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to do this thing.

So going back again to what you said, I like, well, it's not my fault. It's my parents' fault. That's what they did, whatever their mentality was. And we also have the ability and the option to say, okay, I'm not going to make them wrong or right. I'm just not going to place blame. And this is where it's so important that we write our story, right, our money story, and we take accountability. We have awareness now. And then we say, okay, this is also important. You know, forgiveness is a whole other section when it comes to releasing these patterns. But we need to stop putting blame because that's not the energy that we want to keep, right? Alongside with scarcity mindset and poverty mindset. And, you know, a lot of times we just have to have forgiveness and say, okay, you know what? My mom and dad, God bless them. They did the best that

They could at the time. But now we have the ability now with awareness to make a decision. Okay, that's it. I'm done. I'm done with all this mess. I'm done with how this has been going. I have the ability to choose and make a decision of how I want to move forward. Because you can also rewrite those.

You can rewire things so that you don't have to stay in that mindset that you were in before. So you always have the ability to choose. The past is the past. Whatever has been written has been written. But you can rewrite it. I love that. It gives a whole new meaning to the concept of a broken record. We hear a broken record.

It's like same thing over and over and over again. And sometimes, especially when you're coaching people, you hear people using the same excuse over and over and over again. I see that most people are just not taking responsibility for themselves. That's why it comes in handy to blame other people. I mentioned to you before my issue. And I know how I worked through it. And I kind of shared a little bit about that book that I read and getting a hold of

some of the work that you do. But if you've read Jen's book, you kind of have a little bit of an unfair advantage, which is why you should tell your friends about the books, meaning you get a window into a different way of looking at things. So my question is, is why do people feel guilty about making money? This is such a great question. There's so many different things. Let me see which way I want to address question. One of the things I would say is, again, going back to your money stories and the patterns, you know, you probably could have heard it from your parents, Right? Depending on who you grew up with, whether it was mom, dad, both or one or the other or somebody else, maybe a grandmother, whoever in your life as you were growing up, there were things that you picked up as a child. Even before the age of seven, your brain is constantly forming and already at that age, it's already pulling in all these stories and all these statements.

And things such as, say you're at a job and you absolutely hate it. Right. And you tell somebody about it, like, yeah, I can't stand this job, you know. And then somebody says to you, well, you just. should be great. You should be grateful that you even have a job. So now you got this little bit of this introduction of guilt, right? And so there's like things like that that can happen where you're being introduced to these feelings of like, gosh, you know, how dare I wish I was happy. How dare I wish my situation was different. And so you start to feel bad. And so over the years,

you're going to run into different examples where, oh, you know, here's another one, right? especially if you're a healer for my healers out there, oh, you know, I shouldn't, I shouldn't charge for this. I feel so bad. This is a gift that I've been given. I shouldn't be charged. I should just be giving it away. Things like that will happen or people will start to say that because it's a gift, because I'm good at it, or because this is something that comes to me so naturally, this shouldn't be something I should charge for. And so those are some examples of how this guilt can just get layered and layered on top of your thoughts and top of the things that you're thinking and experiencing that will create this whole narrative of like, I feel guilty. I should just give it away for free. I shouldn't make any money. And if I make money, I shouldn't tell anybody that this is how

this kind of stuff forms. Yeah. In our ecosystem, we talk about mother, father, teacher, preacher, and just identifying the fact that most of our concepts and ideas, we actually didn't come up with ourselves. They were given to us, even though we think that there are ideas. If I have a poverty mentality, I think that I've actually thought that through and problem with money, but it's not until you hear somebody speak about this like you do that you identify that it kind of came from somewhere else. Another interesting component, like a first cousin or a nephew of such to guilt, is this idea of undercharging what you're worth. So I find that a lot of people complain about not getting paid what they're worth and they're entrepreneurs, right? They're

charging a fee. And then coupled with that is they say, oh, nobody wants to pay. I love when people tell me nobody wants to pay. Like, oh, really? So you know everybody and you've interviewed them and, you know that about them. So what I'd love to know is, why does somebody that know that they're worth more have trouble with charging? They undercharge. And what's happening kind of psychologically in that moment? I guess when I look at it, I'm just wondering, is this a deep connection between like self-worth and income, like what's going on in that moment? Because that seems to be one of the biggest problems. I have friends that are giving stuff away for free or charging nothing because they don't think people want to pay. Oh, yeah, this is a huge challenge for a lot of people. And to make it super

simple, the easiest answer I can give you is there's a lot of people out there that don't feel like they deserve. There is this inner story that's saying like, oh, you shouldn't charge that much. it's too much. And then it's on top of the layering of the guilt and shame and all kinds of stories, right? This is why we got to work through these things. That's why we have to have awareness of where are we in terms of the emotions and the energy that we're constantly exuding. And so when we talk about this whole thing about, oh my gosh, I can't charge that. I just give it away for free. It's a deserving this issue. So there's something that happened along the way in your journey over the years where somebody said something to you, something happened to you, or, could have been some statement that was said to you that made you feel like, gosh, I'm acting like I'm too much. I'm being too much. How many of us have heard that? Or you're being too much?

And this starts to play out in all kinds of ways, right? Whether you're at a job and you're trying to negotiate for our higher salary, we see it play out that way. We've also seen it in, you know, of course when we're creating our offers and we're structuring the price. Who's going to pay that? You know, I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday. And it was this whole thing of like, I was telling her, you know, what I've been helping people. people where they're working on. And she's like, what? People are still paying five figures. I was like, yeah. And so it's so interesting that there is this mentality that some people have that like, you know, I can't charge that much. Nobody's paying that. That is absolutely not true. We can go into

all kind of universal laws, which I talk about about in the book, or when you start to understand these laws, you realize like, wait a minute, this is crazy. Because for example, if you want, the law polarity, If we only think that everybody is only charging a little or giving it away for free, then you're saying that the opposite does not exist at all, which is absolutely not true. You got hate and love. You got darkness and light. I mean, there always has to be an opposite. So for every person, I think that everything is free and cheap. Trust me, there are people on the other end of the spectrum that are willing to pay. And this is why I work with people talking about their positioning. How are you showing up? How are you? you know, looking at this, are you constantly showing up feeling in the back end going like, I don't know, nobody's going to pay for this. I don't know if anyone's going to buy this.

Let me just bring it down to like seven bucks. You're already going into your offer with that kind of energy. So what the heck do you expect to happen? We have to catch ourselves when we're falling into that space of let me bring it down. I don't know if anybody's going to buy this. I mean, this is where it gets really interesting, right? So this is where the work comes from where we need to start looking at where did this happen? How did this start? How do we start shifting our mindset and how do we rewrite these stories so that you are not in this space of feeling that you got to be cheat and that you got to bring it down or you got to give it for free because at the end of the day, you all need to make money. We all got to pay bills, right? I mean, this is why a lot of you go into business.

You want the time freedom and the financial freedom, but it's not going to happen if we're staying in a space where you're constantly giving away things for free. And, you know, there's a whole other thing about fair exchange, fair compensation. If you are providing a value and a service and you're changing and transforming somebody's life, who the heck are you to think that that has no value or worth? There's all that part too. So, but yeah, that at the end of the day, it really comes down to a simple idea of that there is something within you that feels that you don't deserve it. God, there's so many things that I want to say about that. You mentioned the laws of the universe and I love that. You mentioned polarity. Another one is the law of giving and receiving.

And it's just so fascinating because what we're talking about is a receiving issue right now, whether people don't feel comfortable receiving money or they're undercharging or something. One of the fun issues about giving and receiving is if you're having a receiving issue, you're creating a giving issue for the person that's trying to pay you. So this idea of not charging what you're worth or even worse, giving it away for free, what people don't know in that sense is that they're making the other person feel bad because nobody wants to get anything. They might think they want something for free, but, you know, the law of reciprocity, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. We want to even things out, you know,

so I love the fact that it's like not fair to the other person to not let them give you something. So for that person that is saying, oh shit, she's talking about me with undercharging, for instance, how does somebody actually take an action step and begin charging what they're worth as a creative, but do so without feeling like they're being selfish or greedy. I think that's one of the concept. What's the shift that needs to happen internally first? And what does it actually look like when somebody like truly steps into their value? How do they do it?

So I think one of the first exercises that I give somebody when they're trying to work through these stories and learning how to rewrite it is a simple exercise. So if you take a sheet of paper and on the left side of it, you split it in half. On the left side, you just write, you know, maybe your age, right? And I'll tell you what you have to do with that. And on the right side, you're going to write the instance. So let's say on the left side you write the age of four. I'll use myself as an example.

So when I was four, that was the farthest back I could go in my mind, right, of the first instance that had to do with money. So I write the number four on the left side of the page. And then the right side, I write whatever the situation is big or small. And so when I was four, what happened? My parents took me to the mall. And, you know, back in the day, I don't even know if it's still there, but there was a balloon man, right?

The helium balloons. And, you know, I was an 80s kid. And so there was a strawberry shortcake balloon that I really wanted. It was a helium balloon. So my dad goes to the balloon man, gets it, but comes back with a freaking Wonder Woman balloon. And I remember it being four years old, being like, I didn't want Wonder Woman. I wanted strawberry shortcake, right? Gosh, looking at back, I'm like, what a freaking brat.

So we go back home. And I remember being in my room. room and I had a safety pin. I opened it and I took it and I popped it and I ripped the myler apart because I didn't want the Wonder Woman balloon. And I remember to this day, me feeling this immediate surge of guilt like, what did I just do? Like they worked for this and I just destroyed it. And I'm going to tell you, you know, I can give me an example so you can pick the ear that you can remember any instance and then an example. And I'll tell you the reason why that's so powerful when you do this. In that particular example that I just gave you, I was able to identify

as a child, I immediately felt bad. I immediately put on this guilt. And then from that point out, I had a very hard time asking for help or money. I felt like I had to do it on my own because I was not deserving of asking for things because how dare I be the freaking brat at four years old to even ask for anything after that incident. So when you do that throughout the years and you start to list out all the different things that you can remember, you'll start to see a pattern like, oh gosh, yeah, my dad kept saying, you know, we don't have money. Yeah, I remember my mom was struggling because our dad left and she had to take on everything and we never could afford jobs. Like, there's going to be all kinds of stories and you will be able to identify the pattern. And when you see those patterns, that that is when

you can start to be, okay, do I want to keep this story? Do I want to keep living this out? But at that point, what's happening is now you have this incredible awareness of where some of your financial decisions today, where were they rooted in? Where did they come from? And so you start to do that work. So that is probably the first step, the easiest one that I would advise some of you to do because I've had people go through that and some of them are crying. Some of them are like, wow, you know, I haven't thought about that since I was nine years old. And these are grown ass people. Recalling things from their childhood. They were like, wow, I didn't realize this. I can't believe. That's where this came from. And so that's a wonderful exercise to do.

You know, after that, you start to look back now jumping forward. Now that you have that awareness, there's going to be some work. It's going to take some getting used to. So when you are creating your programs, when you are putting up together proposal, when you are putting your offers together and you start to feel that, oh, gosh, it's too much. That's where you stop and pot. And then you have to really ask yourself, when you start to say things to yourself, like, oh, that's too much.

Like, oh, nobody's going to buy that. like, oh my gosh, you know, who am I to charge 15,000 or whatever the figure is? That's when you stop and pause and ask yourself, all this crazy talk that I'm saying to myself right now, is this true? Is it true that nobody's going to buy this? Is it true that there's nobody out there that's still spending money? Is it true that you can't deliver what you're going to promise and that you don't deserve that amount of which you are asking for? Because let me tell you this. How many of you out there charged way too little or you, You gave it away for free and you took on the job.

You took on the project. You took on the client. Trust me, I promise 100% of you felt like shit. You did not like how it felt. You would begrudgingly going through the work and you're thinking in your mind, gosh, I'm not even making anything on this. I'm barely making it. And then you're worried about your bill because you chose to not have a fair compensation

in exchange of the value that you were providing the other person because you thought you didn't deserve it. So I want you to think of that. There is absolutely nothing wrong. with you asking for what you deserve because you are giving the other person all that value, all that transformation, all your experience bottled into that contract, that proposal, that coaching session. And this is what you got to hang on to when your mind starts to go in that crazy space

saying that you shouldn't charge for this, that I'm going to just give it away because that is absolutely the thing that you don't want to do because you are so deserving of the value that you are exchanging for that person. You are changing that person. love that. And once again, everybody's kind of in the jacuzzi experience right now saying, yes, yes, yes, preach. Amen. But as soon as we go back out there, you were talking about that pause. This is kind of the work that we do with the interface response system is like we teach people to say, hmm, which means haven't made up my mind. And that's the pause. But the challenge,

I think, is recognizing that it could even be crazy talk. Because I think a lot of people, if they're believing in their concepts and they justify them and they validate them. So, you know, one of the things that we teach people to do, and you mentioned it, is just ask questions no matter what. You can always run with your thought if you still want to, if that's your choice. One of the questions I love to ask myself when I recognize that feeling that you're talking about is I say, what else might be true? I've been really having fun lately with not taking myself serious. Do you think that people take money too seriously? Oh, gosh.

I am so 100% with you on that question. Yeah, I think people do take it way too seriously. And I think there has to be this give and take where, yeah, I'm not saying go rogue and, you know, act like there's no responsibilities. But I think some of you all there need to loosen up. I think some of you all need to go back to that deserving issue and say like, yes, I can buy the nice quality thing. Yes, I don't have to.

to buy from the dollar menu. You know, and there's some people that even if you have a lot of money, you still want to spend it like you're being cheap. Like, because there's money stories involved, right? It is not always the case where we can't afford it. That's not the case because there are people that are wealthy that still have, you know, a scarcity mindset. And I've seen it where people hoard.

Yeah, I think, like I mentioned in the beginning, values of mine are fun and adventure. And I think it's important. You have to make it fun. You have to stop taking things so seriously. I love that you asked this because even for me, especially when I'm going through my ebbs and flows of like, what am I doing? Is this working? I think we all go through that. I ask myself, okay, how can I make this fun?

I love gamifying things for myself. Nobody even knows that maybe two people in my life. They know when I'm doing something crazy. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm tracking this. And I see what I'm doing because I made it fun. I made it fun where it was a game and only I'm playing in my mind. But whatever freaking trick you got to do to make it fun. or to make it where you're going to be able to look at it at a different lens.

If that's the thing that's going to help you do it and change that habit or shift the perspective on how you're going to feel like you deserve it or how you're going to spend your money, but whatever the case may be, you absolutely have to bring in fun because it's not going to be sustainable if you don't. You're going to be bored or you're going to be burnt out and you're going to hate it. And then you're not going to want to do it anymore. And it's all because you did not allow fun to come in or you took things too seriously. again, I am not saying go rogue and be crazy and not be responsible, but there has to be some

element of fun involved so that it's sustainable. You know, at the end of the day, you want to enjoy what you're doing. You want to have that element of like, you know what, I don't hate this anymore. I don't hate the work that I'm doing because that's the worst space to be in, right, when we start resenting the things that we're supposed to put out into the world. So I'm hoping to get like what you actually really think about this. This is kind of like a feather ruffler for some people probably, but a lot of people like to try to manifest money, right? And a lot of people pray for money. They're like, God is like some sort of money delivery system and things. I'd love to know your take on those concepts. Like, do you believe that you can manifest and attract money into your life?

However you do it. And what role does your money story play in manifestation? So what are your thoughts on manifestation and praying and hoping and praying for money? I love this question. I am a huge believer. And I have learned myself how to do it faster and faster. Things that I will say about manifesting first, it works. It's a real thing. Okay. So this is not just a woo-woo thing.

There are research behind all this kind of stuff, you know, because again, I have a science background. So for me, when I was starting to learn these things, I'm like, I can't would be like this magical thinking as one of my mentors has called it. It's not even that. And so first off, I absolutely do believe in it and I do practice it every single day. Now, to what Dragon was saying, if you have money stories that you haven't worked through, you can do all the wishing, praying, hoping, whatever you want, but that money story will still be in the

way. It will still be a block. And if you still feel like, I can't charge that, you know, or that's too much, that's crazy talk. You can try to manifest all you want for that six-figure business, $10,000 to come in. But the way that this work is that the energy that you, are putting out the energy and the thought are vibrating at a level that is saying to the universe in God and spirit that, oh, you know what? She's asking for this or he's asking for the thing that is too much. Okay, well, if it's too much, we'll just give you 197. Well, they said they don't deserve it. Well, then maybe we don't give it to them. So what ends up happening, if you do not clear these money blocks and these money stories, you are sending out conflicting messages.

And that's where people start to wonder, how come it's not happening? How come I'm not manifesting? These things are not working. You know, all this manifesting is just a bunch of bullshit. No, no, no, it's not that. It's that there is still rewiring work to do. There is still a lot of working through the money stories. Because think about that.

You can't be thinking one thing and then expecting the results of what you're trying to manifest. That just doesn't work that way. Because a lot of times, this is what I have found. when it comes to manifesting, there are a lot of people out there that I'm just going to ask for this and write on a post-it that I want this and this and I'm so amazing. And then you don't want to do the work. You just want to sit and think that it's just going to come to you. And like Dragon said, it's not like God is like this vending machine. Right. It's just going to grant it to you. You have to co-create. You have to take inspired action. How many of you out there, and I might be stepping on some toes here, you get this idea or you've been asking for. I need some clarity. I don't know what to do.

I don't know how. And then an offer comes along your way or a coach comes along your way. Or you watch a Zoom and you find out at the end, they pitch a great offer. And it is like all of these situations are the perfect scenario to help you get to what you're trying to solve. And then you pause and you say no. Then you come up with these excuses. You don't get the help. You don't do it.

And then you wonder, why are you still in the same place? Then you want to go back to your manifesting journal and write out, I want to make six figures. in my business. But you are not making the decision to take the action. You're stopping it. And you take inspired action, not sit around and wonder and think and think and not take action and want. And then you still continue to, I just don't know how. And that's what's happening sometimes in a lot of your lives. The help is right in front of your face. The answers are right in front of your face. But you keep saying no to it. And it's not this thing where, again, you just wish for it. there are going to be these opportunities and these times where you have to stop and pause and go like,

it might be scary. It might be, you might be scared as shit to take this move, but that doesn't mean you don't do it. And here's the way that you can tell if it's a decision you should make. Because a lot of times I think a lot of you will think that, oh, no, there's some fear. I shouldn't do it. No, no, no, I shouldn't do that because that's scary. I don't think that's what I should do. One of the things that I ask myself, even when it's scary, is that if I said yes to this thing,

even though it's scary or it feels a little like, oh, God, I don't know if I can do this. The way that I can tell it's still in alignment is if I do this, does it still move me forward to where I'm going or where I want to go? Regardless, because our emotions can be confusing sometimes, if the answer is yes, I will still say yes. Even if I'm scared that I don't know how I'm going to do it, I always just tell myself, I'm going to figure this out, because this is an alignment where I'm trying to go.

This is in alignment with what I need to do. I do not let that fear mislead me and say, well, then that's scary. I don't want to do it. Because there's some of us that confuse that fear with I shouldn't do it versus I need to do it afraid anyway. Yeah. So good. It's ironic that we were joking about God not being a vending machine, but the bank is kind of a vending

machine. And what's interesting is if you walk into the bank and you're not ready and you ask for a loan, they're going to deny your loan. You didn't fill out the paperwork. You got to get your share. together. So it's kind of the same thing. It's like people just kind of hope that they don't have to do the work and they're just going to ask for things without having to do the work. And they know they need to do the work. But sometimes I wonder if people just don't actually want money. You know what I mean? Like because they, even if you tell somebody, if somebody listens to this episode and they see the block and they don't do anything about it, I would just challenge you to look in the mirror and say, are you really ready to make money? Because it's waiting to come for you. In the simplest terms, What is the creative code and this idea of kind of rewriting your story and like maybe share what the first step is? Yeah. So the first step, the framework is basically one, rewrite your story, whether it's your money story, which is what we've been talking about.

The second one is to reposition your value. And then the third one is to move within our knowing. It's almost like a nice recap. You summarize all the things we just talked about in the last, you know, hour. And so, you know, when I think about the people that I've worked with and talked with, it always comes back down to the story. So that's number one. And then number two, repositioning your value. That's understanding where am I at and what am I offering? Am I even sloppy? Let's be real. Some of us don't even have systems. Some of us don't even have concrete contract. Do I even know what I'm offering? Do I even know who I'm selling this to? It's just kind of like, I'm just going to address it here and there. And so there's things like that in understanding, are you trying to operate as a freelancer? Are you trying to be an order taker?

Or are you somebody that as a coach consultant and a service provider, whatever it is that you're doing, are you looking at it and positioning your messaging out into the world that I provide a strategy? I provide a solution. And that is a very different position than I'm just taking orders and I can just do this one thing. And if that doesn't make sense, I'll give you an example as a graphic designer. As a graphic designer, I can just say like, hey, I'll make your logo and charge, you know, whatever, $500. Not that I would ever do that, but let's just say it's $500 for a logo, right? I can do that.

But now you're just an order taker. Like, I'm just going to sell things here and there versus, hey, I'm a graphic designer, but I'm also, this is what I can provide to you. We'll take care of your logo. But you know what? Let's create a comprehensive package. We're going to take this logo and then we're going to create social post that's going to cover all the material that's in your workbooks, in the workshops that you do. do and then we'll create frameworks and then we'll create, you know, the workbooks that go with it.

Do you see what I'm saying? Whatever the situation of the project is, now it's going from like $500 to a multi-thousand-dollar project because I am providing a strategy, a business solution for whoever my target audience is. And so repositioning your value, those are some of the tiny ways you can start where you're not just an order taker where this is where you start to see like when you get into that echelon of things, oh, this is how I can start making money. I'm not just doing this one little thing over here. I'm providing a comprehensive strategy for the people that I'm trying to help. And then the third one is move with inner knowing. And this is what we were talking about also,

that trust your gut. I think so often we're trying to be too in our brain and overthinking and over-analyzing. And I think there's a time and place to do research. I really do. Do not get me wrong. However, some of us stay there too long. And so, Sometimes if you just trust your gut and stop, and I do a lot of stop and pausing, you can't already sell. We just have to stop and pause and like, hey, you can tell sometimes when you're asking yourself, should I do X, Y, Z? Should I, you know, put the deposit down or should I say yes to this collaboration project? Sometimes you just need a stop and ask yourself, like, how am I feeling? How is my physical body and my spirit feeling about this decision? Sometimes the answer is so quick. If you just ask yourself

that question and then you can feel it like, it's a hell yeah? then just jump on it. Stop over analyzing and just say freaking yes. I have learned over the years to make fast decisions with alignment. Again, not being rogue and crazy, but making fast decisions with alignment. And I don't get caught up. Oh, my gosh, my child. I have a 14-year-old son.

He is the king of like, but what if it doesn't work? But what if this happens? But what if this? And I said, why are you allowing your brain to go there? And then he just makes his face on me like, and I'm like, exactly. stop it. We're not even there yet. And I said, so what? So what if it blows up in your face? At that moment, you have the decision of how you're going to take a different direction. So stop worrying about, again, why are you manifesting something that you don't even want or even putting that energy out there? And so, you know, it's that simple. And then if there is the other answer that it's just like, oh, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that. Don't ignore that. Your body is already telling you like, yeah, there's a red flag. Go deeper and ask yourself, like, why isn't it a hell yes? Why is it that weird feeling that? And you will see, once you kind of flesh it out, like, okay, this is why I didn't want to do it. It can be that simple sometimes. Is it a hell yes? It feels good. Or it's like, oh, I don't know. There's a red flag. Let me ignore that. I'm not saying it's always an immediate no, but it's, there's something to explore it. And sometimes you might find like, okay, well, I'm willing to still say yes, but I'm at least aware of something that I have to pay attention to. And you can still make that decision. But at least I think the biggest thing about this part is that knowing that it's all about you taking action. Whether you say yes or no,

the danger zone is when you do nothing at all. Right. That's the only guarantee. I always tell people, if you're looking for a guarantee, do nothing because it's a guarantee what will happen. Another funny thing about it, we spend so much time trying to like have everything be perfect. Our belief, the timing has to be right, our confidence, we have to be motivated and all that stuff. You know, that's why people, they're going to take like 12 courses on money problems before they, they actually do something. Even if you do everything right, you're going to fail more than succeed in life.

That's the funny thing. So I can promise you that Jen Fontenia has failed more than succeeded in life. Well, that's what makes a successful person. The most successful person in the room is the person that failed the most and just never stop. I always remind people to get rid of their attachments to the outcomes because you're going to be upset if you do that. My last question is this.

So somebody that's kind of still feeling stuck, undervalued, like they don't have the ability to tell us about how bad they suck and things like that, maybe financially frustrated. What's the most important concept about money that they need to let go of immediately? Oh, gosh, there's so many. I would say the belief that I think that people need to let go of is that it's hard to make money. It's hard to do this. It's hard to be successful. We need to get rid of that.

At the end of the day, I think that's probably the biggest one we need to release. Because I can tell you about all the different money story examples and state, and, you know, oh, money doesn't grow in trees. But it really comes down to us releasing this idea that making money has to be hard, that everything has to be this hustle, that everything has to be, oh, big and grandiose, and I got to do all the things. It's like, we need to get out of that hustle mentality and start to embody this idea of, wait a minute, what if it was possible to do this with ease?

What if it was possible to do this in a relaxed manner? And I think what's so wonderful, when you start embody, that you start to attract and magnetize different things differently because you are already accepting the fact that it doesn't have to be hard you're already accepting the fact in your mind in your being in your subconscious everything at your core physically spiritually whatever it is mentally that hey why don't you just try it just tell yourself that it doesn't have to be hard it doesn't have to be a struggle let's let go of that because there are so many people out there that are doing it with ease and And you are so new to all of this, the first step I want to encourage you to do is stop saying that

it's so hard and that you can start embodying that, hey, you know what? What if it's possible that I can do this in a relaxed manner? I love that. Sometimes I perceive that things are hard. I always like to redefine the word and call it hardly. So what would be the smartest way for someone to start stalking you? Obviously, we're going to put the book in your website and stuff. What aspect of your work are you most excited about that you would want to share with people right now?

Oh, gosh. We're now working on this offer. It's called the premium positioning intensive. And it's really just walking people through their positioning, also working on some mindset. And then even working on their offers and their pricing and really working through the idea of like, yes, we can charge that much. Yes, go do it. And I think that's the most fun part for me is when I'm working with somebody. And they're like, are you sure?

Are people still spent? I'm like, just do it. At another zero, you know? And they're just like, what? And I'm like, they'll come back and they're like, oh my gosh, somebody just said yes. I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, don't, of course. I knew they were. Like, this is why I'm telling you to do it.

It's so exciting for me. It's so exciting for me to other make money, you know? But you can stalk me on LinkedIn. It's my new home. Great LinkedIn game, this girl. Oh, thank you so much. And you know, LinkedIn has been one of those things I had a game of fun. Why showing up, making it fun.

How do I? Because, you know, why is it so much posting and stuff? And then I had to change my perspective. And, you know, apply that to all the other parts of your business and your life. Like, how do I make this fun? And then it doesn't feel so heavy. Like, come on. We don't want heaviness and struggle.

Yeah. So I would love to connect with you there. Please connect. Shoot me a DM. Tell me you saw me on the podcast, a dragon. I would love to hear what's work. Awesome. Jen Fontenia.

What a fun conversation. Your work is fantastic. You're fantastic. And you did great in the Dragon's layer. Congratulations. Thank you, Dragon. I appreciate it. Awesome. This is Jen Fontenia and this podcast makes sense. That's it for today. To support the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, be sure to subscribe, like, and share, as well as follow the Make Sense substack for free daily quotes, live streams, and blogs. And remember, learning without action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learn something today, give it away.

That's the only way it's going to stay. See you next time. Makes sense.