Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - The Architecture of Proximity Power: Opening Elite Doors and Strategic Advisory with Richard Dolan - Episode 141

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're right. I think we don't misunderstand. I think we lack the understanding. I mean, I had to look up the word influence just to make sure we're speaking from the same song sheet. And by definition, it's the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something or the effect itself. So it really is, Dragon, the power to shape policy, to ensure a favorable treatment from someone or especially through status or contacts. Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you? That your beliefs, perceptions, reactions, fears, and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise? How easy it's been for you to slip into that default sleepwalking mode and label it as life and reality.

Starting point is 00:00:50 Yeah, that ends here. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control, and step back. into that role as the shock caller and dominant force of your own reality. It's when you change the way that you look at things, that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up, let's rise up, and let's make sense of why and how shift happens. Thanks. Welcome to the, what I call the Dragonslayer. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. JCP podcast, Mr. Richard Dolan. It's nice to have you here. Good to be back in your presence, bro. Yeah, I'm so excited about this.

Starting point is 00:01:34 And just to make sure that I lay the stage for how I met this guy, you know, we were kind of talking back, you know, before we even went live here. And I'm only really interested in interesting things and people. And what's interesting about you is that my initial interest before I really even knew who you were, I never go by what I heard about people, but I heard you're pretty extravagant person. You know, I was pretty excited to meet you in that sense. but we met more on the level of friends, and I got to meet you. And this is going to fit very nicely into our conversation today. It makes perfect sense why you've met all these extraordinary and powerful people,

Starting point is 00:02:16 because I experienced that, just sitting with you and talking to you and just meeting you as a human being, and then learning about all of your achievements after. I didn't study up on Richard Dolan before I came to co-MC a show with him. I just figured you were like me, had the gift of Gab, but they were. There is so much behind that. So it's an honor and a privilege to meet you now in this context where I've actually taken the time to learn a lot about what you've accomplished. Well, you know, it says, first of all, thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:02:45 I mean, it's not every day you get to collaborate with people and play on the same playground as they do and circle back and truly look forward to doing so. It's rare. We all are zipping through life and we exchange cards and we tap phones and we link each other up on platforms and all these other. their intermediaries, but you truly do have a heart that wishes to remain connected to people that matter. And for that, I truly appreciate. So thanks for the invite and those kind words. I'm so grateful to be here, man. I'll be sure after this conversation to call my acting coach and tell him that

Starting point is 00:03:19 it was money well spent. I want to get into, rather than saying, Richard, how did you get started? I kind of want to take in a different context, but Richard Dolan is somebody that if you meet him in the context of hearing him speak. He's a wonderful speaker. And as I've shared with you, he's a wonderful friend. And he's just got so many attributes of the kind of person that you'd like to call friend and also, you know, mentor and things like that. But the first thing that hits you when you look at his sizzle reel or anything that he's done is he's just somehow, and we're going to dig into this, somehow, not only gotten in the room with some extraordinary, iconic, powerful, and influential people. And I'm talking about the kind of people. And I'm talking about the kind of people.

Starting point is 00:04:01 that even if you've had a successful run at meeting people, these are not the kind of people that you meet. But somehow, here's this guy, Richard Dolan, and he's got pictures that kind of look like the end scene of hangover, you know, hanging out with these people in the sense that he knows these people. And I'm talking about big people. So I want to start off by talking about this concept of a proximity influence. Let me lay this on you. Because I've done a lot of research on this, and I think this is what everybody's going to love. Obviously, you've operated for decades now inside, I guess what people would call like high stakes relationships and environments and met all these people, like including presidents, champions and global decision makers and things like this. So this is what I'd

Starting point is 00:04:47 like to kick this off with. When people ask questions, because that's what people want to know, is how do I do it, how do I do it? When people ask questions about how to build what I call high value connections, we're going to refer to them as that, do you? Do you, you? you think that they misunderstand what proximity influence actually is. And when I want to make sure that everybody understands what that means, what I mean by that, my proximity influence is both physically and psychologically being within the presence of people, but also aligned with people. So if you could just speak to that any way you see fit. I think you're right. I think we don't misunderstand. I think we lack the understanding. I mean, I had to.

Starting point is 00:05:31 look up the word influence just to make sure we're speaking from the same song sheet. And by definition, it's the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself. So it really is, Dragon, the power to shape policy, to ensure a favorable treatment from someone or especially through status or contacts. And if there's one real trait I've come to learn to not only fortify, but to also build a lot of personal and professional prowess with is influence. So I know that influence by extension is a function of self-responsibility. And self-responsibility is, of course, the extension of just self-aware. So for people that are not really self-aware and therefore aren't self-governing and therefore

Starting point is 00:06:23 aren't self-leading, like they're relying on other people to tell them what to do, and they're waiting for other people to show them the way. They're not really the author of what comes next. They're really, quite frankly, the words on a page being told what's coming. Then you miss the phenomenon of being at the effect of influence and also causing and creating influence. So what I love that influence really is, if you were to look at a wheel, the very center, I would assert influence is not at the center you are. And how influence is actually experienced by you and by others, both in your life and the life of those around you, of you and with you, is like really the wheel. And all those spokes are ways in which you're experienced,

Starting point is 00:07:12 that then influences a person and their experience of life in you itself. So as you said earlier on in my introduction, yes, if you see me on a stage and you hear me speak, and I might influence you, that's just one experience of me. Me as in here I am Richard Dolan, and as a result of experience of me as a speaker, I've shaped, recontured, or impacted you through influencing you from that experience, that one realm, if I dare go deep for a moment, that one realm of experiencing me as a human. Does that make sense? Did that speak to your question?

Starting point is 00:07:51 Yeah, totally. and this concept of becoming attractive. You know, it's one thing to be physically attractive, but I'm assuming when we get into some of the stories that you've got to be in the room where it happens and there's other components to meeting these people, but it's when they feel your energy and they meet you, your vibe attracts your tribe,

Starting point is 00:08:09 when they feel the degree of your self-responsibility and things like that. I mean, I can tell you, just from my personal experience, I was subjected to that with you. When you meet somebody and you, have an opportunity to get to know them, that's where the deal is done. So I'm sure that we're going to deep dive into that. Well, but just to riff off it without affording you the leadership opportunity, because this is your show on that. This is your show. This is our show. So here's

Starting point is 00:08:39 what I love about what you said, is that when you speak to the fact that we both got to experience each other as co-emCs of an event, our dear friend Jim Quick at the Limitless Live event back in San Diego, You got to see how I will engage a person I need to introduce. But in that moment, how can I make it a personally moving moment for me and for them? It consistent with your point around influence, a catalyst to influence is proximity. And when you have the two together, I would assert that it catalyzes your shift to the responsibility of that. It's kind of like having friends over at your place and you're about to celebrate a holiday or a gathering. and they end up having a really shitty time.

Starting point is 00:09:21 Well, proximity, if you didn't catch it, is actually the gift. It's the catalyst to the responsibility for shaping their experience of you. So introducing a person on stage for me becomes a massive responsibility that showcases who they are as much as it showcases who I am

Starting point is 00:09:39 and even the why I'm here. So you, because of the way you are, the way you roll and who you've become in this world and can be counted on for, you're watching that. and see that you're watching that because you do this too as a fellow speaker and an alchemist of mankind and a great curator of great insight and conversations. So I just want to make sure I put that in place that we were both in awe of each other because it's very rare to have two people do what

Starting point is 00:10:04 we do as we do very similarly. Yeah, we'll get into it. But I think a lot of people, you know, they think that the key is to get past the gatekeepers and things like that. But if you do succeed at that and there's strategies of doing that. It's not until you're in the presence of somebody that you feel their vibration, their frequency. So I want to go deeper into something that I think is super cool. Like I'm referring to you now as the architect of access. I mean, think about that. You know, it's one thing to be somebody that has access, but I like to say, oh, that's my buddy Richard. He is the architect of access. I wish I knew about that when I introduced you at the show. So I want to go into this architecture of proximity power.

Starting point is 00:10:45 that being said. So in your experience, what separates people who are near power from people like you, Richard Dolan, that are actually opening up elite doors? I want to identify, because once again, you can get close, but it's only a certain characteristic of vibration or an energy that actually opens these doors. Because when we get into these stories, people will probably blindly think that You were lucky or somebody hooked you up with something, and there's something to be said about that. But I've heard your stories before. And it's like, you're just sitting down eating dinner with your family sometimes, and all of a sudden, this whole cascade of events happens. Once again, what's the difference between somebody that gets near that proximity of power and somebody that actually opens up the door?

Starting point is 00:11:35 So I think the short answer is to have the courage to engage your sense and relationship to creating what could be next, not just for yourself, but that other. I mean, that's the short answer. A longer answer, though, and I think I can be afforded this since it's apparently my show, is my son recently asked me this, and the older he got, the more often I found himself

Starting point is 00:11:59 asking me just questions of how did I come to meet this person and how did you get to work with that person? And what was it like working with those people and what are two with these? Because as he's grown in his age, of course, now in university, in looking at his own life from the whole. He can't help but look at the template in which I am for him to say,

Starting point is 00:12:19 hey, what can I learn from my dad? So it forced me to really do a little bit of not only diarization, but also inventorization of just like, how did I get to do all that? And so it's been an incredible experience, brother. And as a father, as you are, two dads is chatting here. And I think for any parent, you'll appreciate this. Telling my story of how I came to be was cool. So here it's where it comes.

Starting point is 00:12:40 So as my son's asking me, I get into a metaphor form right now. If he's asking me about how to describe the foreign lands I discovered, the more interesting conversation is how did that even step foot on a boat when there is no one in my family that can sail? Like, there was no one in my family that had a boat, metaphorically, who knew how to sail the world and become explorers? How did I, from a broken family who were dirt broke in the inner city,

Starting point is 00:13:07 end up on a ship to begin with, to journey the world hundreds of times, times over to discover these incredible, exotic, new discovered lands that have never been seen before, the icons, the legends, and the gods of commerce and culture I've come to call them, or what you'd call celebrity. So when I got to understand how I came to be, I really appreciated how I became. For you to know that is to know this, that coming into proximity with people that I thought were only reserved for the rich and the powerful, neither of which I was. And to have done that once, and all it took was once, as the old saying goes, it only takes a match to light a forest fire.

Starting point is 00:13:50 It only took that one time for him to say, huh, I wonder if that was a fluke. Let's try that again. And to repeat the process of circumstances and star alignment recognition and putting myself in that place that was really hyper uncomfortable and I wasn't quite sure if I would belong or be discovered. And to do it again, I realized that getting into proximity with those who were rich and powerful, it wasn't a pass of freedom and it wasn't just chance. It was design and it was my design. So that's how I came to come into the orbiting of people of power and those of wealth, whether they were icons and legends, whether they were politicians or heads of state, whether they were actresses or, you know, super athletes. And the list goes on. Based on that, it was just a personal

Starting point is 00:14:39 discovery that a kid who came from the inner city and that should not have been able to have been permitted in that place and that spot in that position was granted access, I went off to rinse and repeat that for decades. The difference is, and the story will come next perhaps, is what I did with that access, is what's even more magical. But I think it's important for you to know, my fellow dragon, that's really what started it. I did come from humble beginnings. I'm a high school dropout by design. I since went back to school and taught at university levels, programs on wealth management and financial services.

Starting point is 00:15:15 I was a statistical impossibility. I should not have been able to be in the proximity of four U.S. presidents or tour alongside of Oprah Winfrey or work alongside a Drake or reinvent a Mike Tyson. These things are impossible to imagine if you put me back all those years ago and say, imagine you're going to be. and imagine you're going to go and imagine you're going to have clients in the royal family. I would have said that's impossible. Look at who I am.

Starting point is 00:15:43 Look at where I come from. So I think what I love about what you're saying in short is proximity is a phenomenon that is available to us all. The differences is are you able to see it, seize it, and then mobilize it, commercialize it, even dare to monetize it. Is that fair? Yeah, it's so fascinating. you're doing it to me again. You're making me think and recognize, like totally throwing me off track. That's what I love about you. This is exactly my master plan. Well, I say that all human beings are

Starting point is 00:16:17 similar in the sense that they all want the same things. We all want to be happier, healthier, and wealthier. So I call human beings, I say we're seekers of the er. We all want more. But wanting and desiring and needing and must-having and stuff are just points of reference, but it's very few people that navigate how to cross the bridge. So I think that what I'm hearing you say is it first required some sort of a desire or interest to have some of this happen. I mean, if you never have a point of reference, you'll probably never look that way. But I heard courage. Do have to have some courage to do something that you're not sure you can do. Then you have to have the insight to recognize that you have some powers that you were unaware of, you know, that you didn't know

Starting point is 00:17:00 about because nobody had been on that ship before. So you actually were on that ship, but you just didn't know it until it actually like sailed a little bit. And by the way, just to riff off you, and you'll appreciate this because you're a musician on this temperature of life, is that we all have superpowers. So I feel like that that I had a scene years ago, and we've seen it in many comic book character-based shows, films, and storylines where someone is living an ordinary life against all odds and in a peculiar way, something happens. They discover they've got the superpower and what ends up transpiring from there. Do you remember? They resist it. Yeah. Right. As they're discovering it, they don't want it. They don't want the superpower because it's an abandonment, a departure from the

Starting point is 00:17:47 default position, from what you know yourself to be. So in all of that discomfort, but equally in a combative way, all of this curiosity, see, well, what is it really? Luckily for me, I came to embrace that superpower, lean into that superpower, leverage that superpower. And so I think for a lot of people, we're so addicted to who we've been. We're not as courage as we could be and shall be, and could be again, to lean into those superpowers we all have. That's so good. Yeah. Our message here today is that everybody has superpowers, but that doesn't mean that your superpower is the same as Richards, you know, and sometimes there's a lot of value in having connections and friends. And and things like this.

Starting point is 00:18:30 So just for the record, we're not recommending that anybody listening today try to call Obama today or try to pitch Oprah on something, although you might find something out about yourself if you did. So I'm referring to you now, here's another one of our dragonisms. From where I sit,

Starting point is 00:18:47 you've become a master of what I call the invisible gates. And I call them invisible gates because gates and barriers are something that we typically make up in the mind. what I'd like to know is what are people missing when they try to force access instead of earn it? The way that you and I met without trying, there was nothing forced about it. It was something earned and our friendship was like, hey, I kind of like you. Let's be friends, but it wasn't like something like I'm going to become friends with this guy. So tell me a little bit about

Starting point is 00:19:22 where that fits in. I mean, we're all these people, and we're going to share a story now, were all these people that you ended up meeting and working with and having relationships, were they targets? Were they destinations? Or were they just part of you just naturally viving and attracting people, but taking note of opportunities? You know, to start with where you framed it, I'm going to just really maybe turn this segment on its ear that when you speak of me or anyone for that matter as a master of the invisible gates, it begs the question, but of what side of the gates are you located? So for me, I feel like I'm inside the gates.

Starting point is 00:20:00 I operate from inside of where I always want to be. I'm not looking in hoping I can gain entry. I'm looking outwards at the gates that are already closed behind me. So I've made it through or past the velvet ropes, the wrought iron gates, the lock and key. I'm on the inside. So I never really felt, and nor do I ever operate within the confines of my mind thinking I've got to get through something. There have been moments where I clearly have got to get past somebody or something, a barrier of sorts. But that might be a little bit of just my own gift and training where I do really operate in a limitless fashion from like there are no gates that I can't open.

Starting point is 00:20:42 There is no one in the world I can't get to. That's just number one. I think number two to your question is I never ever intended to go out and just seek an opportunity of being connected with a particular person or something. when I first first recognized for me. And I have to admit, full candor, that prior to this big revelation, I had already had a number of instances where I was already in orbit with powerful, rich, and amazing people. I'd have to put that out there. But there was this opportunity where I had the chance of meeting President William Jefferson

Starting point is 00:21:20 Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States. He was in my home city. and the organizer of the event had positioned me as a buyer of a VVIP ticket. Not a VIP ticket, a VVIP ticket, which would put me backstage with a handful of only, you know, a number of other people that were willing to pay this really obnoxious amount of money to shake his hand, meet him, and take a photo. What we call today a meet and greet. So I jumped at the opportunity, thought that would be fantastic.

Starting point is 00:21:50 So, of course, I went to this event. and I was astonished first by the number of people that were in the room, the main call to see him, just to watch a former U.S. president take a stage. There were thousands of people in this room just to listen to this man live and in person. What I was far more astonished by was how horribly he was introduced to the stage. I was mortified for him, the president, and hold that thought for a moment, but I was mortified because I thought, man, like, this is a president coming into this country and like, I mean, this is someone that's special. And the person who introduced them was clearly a sponsor of some

Starting point is 00:22:31 kind who may have paid for the rights to do that thing, but didn't do a good thing. You get my point. By the time I got backstage and I got to meet the president leading up to it, I couldn't have but notice that everyone in that room, a very small room, remember high-price VVIP were billionaires, millionaires. There were heads of state. there were mayors. I recognized five to 10 of the most powerful people in my city in that room. And in that moment, I thought to myself, oh my gosh, this is the right room for me to be in, given the business I was in. And at the time, I was in the wealth management investment banking space. So this was a good place for me to be. When I met the president, I said, it's an honor to meet you.

Starting point is 00:23:15 I remember practicing in my mind. And they said, but I've got to be honest, whoever you got to introduce you, you really deserve a far more epic introduction in that. And by the way, I've never introduced anybody on stage of my life to that moment. And in his own joking ways, says, well, Mr. Dolan, why don't you introduce me to the next show coming up in your country? And in that moment, I got the invite. So how did that all come to be? Did I intend to make President Clinton a client? No. Did I intend to say that to him until I experienced what I did? No. But what I realizes I was open. There's the word of this segment. I was really open to learning and watching, observing, and just being, not a judge, not an assessor, I wasn't drawing conclusions, I wasn't writing

Starting point is 00:24:00 an article, I had no intention. So I was really just open. I was open to the event, how it unfolded, what I experienced, and I sat with it. But the moment I was able to articulate any discourse or discontent with it, I shared it with the right person at the right time and the right way. Have I shared good thoughts in horrible ways? Absolutely. I've fumbled a ball. Have I failed to catch the window in a moment and miss the chance of opportunity of sharing an insider or a thought?

Starting point is 00:24:28 I have too. So timing is everything. But I think the real blessing and if you're an existentialist, the ontology of it was I was really open. I was super open because I was open. I really would assert he was open and it clicked. And that catalyzed a lot of really great opportunity. I went on to tour with him for 15 years after that, but that was the catalyst.

Starting point is 00:24:53 So I think just to your point, to make sure I paraphrase and backstop it, is being open is really a function, a requirement to mastering the accessibility to those gates that might appear locked to you. If you're open, what's amazing is it disarms the gates. It opens the hinges. It allows you in because you're welcoming both the vulnerability from within, but also that also surrounds you. That's yummy. It is. There's so many things there. I would add to open, I would also add that you were not only open, but you were curious enough to evaluate some things. And this leads me to something that I see that you have also mastered, whether you know it or not, and that would be what we call solving the value gap. Now, just to make sure everybody understands what that means is how do you offer value to somebody that has everything? This is what I'm so fascinated about hearing. That's what's so interesting

Starting point is 00:25:57 about meeting. I actually got a chance to meet him differently, but at a wedding. And at that wedding, Bobby De Niro was there, you know, just randomly. So I got to meet those folks. And you do a great Bill Clinton, by the way. I mean, that was fantastic. I appreciate that very much. They're dragging. You obviously spent some time with them. So solving the value gap, what is the science behind that? Is it just about being open and curious to figure out how you can bring value as a financial advisor or as somebody that's going to announce people to stage and stuff? How do you create value for somebody that has everything? Like some of the stories we're going to hear. Well, I'll make it really simple. And if you're writing down notes,

Starting point is 00:26:38 I would start here. I think that curiosity gets you in, but creativity keeps you around. Now, a function of both is absolutely grounded in courage. We've talked about this already. Without courage, I'm not willing to learn and be ferociously curious and ask questions and lean in and learn more. And without courage, I can't dig deep and think beyond the obvious. So channeling my inner kid and my imagination and it's,

Starting point is 00:27:08 power to really be obscenely creative in a way that's non-predictable is very important. So I think for me, into your question, solving the value gap, that's brilliant, by the way, what wonderful framework. It comes down to one of the three laws that I've come to agree on, align with, and then authored about. I created this urban financial philosophy around the subject of legacy, like what it means to not just leave a legacy, but to live a legacy. I've often argued that it's not about like what you leave.

Starting point is 00:27:40 What you leave is shaped by how you lived, how you loved, how you laughed, how you led. And that determines what you leave and what you leave is your legacy. So it's not about stuff. It's actually really about significance. So on that, I would then be always asked, well, how could you live then a legacy rich oriented life? And I said, well, after studying all these icons and legends, I've come to learn that they all share three things in common, and then I went on to write about it. But the three things then rose Dragon as laws. They were irrefutable, inarguable. They were impenetrable. They were

Starting point is 00:28:20 consistently the same three laws from an actor to a musician, to a president, to a head of state. And it's the first law. The first law is what I would say is the very best of curiosity and creativity fuse together and here comes solving the value gap the way i've seen it the way i've lived it the what i've done is i've caused and created a future for that person that subject that idol that leader what i mean by that is most celebrities i would have to assert that 99.9% of them their lives are already thought through they have scripts for their next movie they've got games to play they've You've got tournaments to get ready for. They've got an offseason ahead of them.

Starting point is 00:29:07 They've got a campaign. They got midterms. The future is clearly already plotted for them. So if you're able to cause and create what comes next after what is now new, now you are someone that, quite frankly, is curating the future for them. So solving the value gap, the where I created value, which is, I think was a huge point of differentiation for me, was not predicting the future for them. I was able to lean on Google for that a lot, using Google Analytics, Google data, Google trends,

Starting point is 00:29:40 compressing like, hey, where in the world are people searching for all things, Mike Tyson? And I'm able to arm myself with data and intelligence that was actionable to say, here's where you're famous, here's why it matters, and here's who we need to go after. That's one thing.

Starting point is 00:29:56 That's not only predictable, but it's also accessible. What you do with that, how you actionize that, that was the future. So it's kind of like being a chess player. You could be a chess player that's relatively good and you're thinking two, five steps ahead, moves ahead.

Starting point is 00:30:12 You can be actually an excellent chess player and you're thinking in terms of like 12 to 15 to 16 steps moves ahead. But you can be masterful where you're thinking 20, 30, 40, 50 moves ahead. You feel me? So that's what I mean about future ability. It's the ability to cause and create a future that's yet to be lived out. that's desirable. So if it's about money, if it's about more fame or to your urs, your moors, whatever that

Starting point is 00:30:41 might be, that to me was where I filled, I filled the value gap. And I think that's something that we all step over and we simply miss the opportunity to do same. I love that. We're obviously listening to somebody that takes what he does very serious, especially on the deeper level, like if you actually care about. this person you're talking to winning as well, then it's a whole other story. So let's have some fun. We were talking about the invisible gates before. I've got to have some of the Richard Dolan stories

Starting point is 00:31:15 here that most people won't believe, but they could just go look it up. Let's hear maybe a moment where you saw the invisible gate, which you see them as invisible, right, open up and you had an opportunity to step into something that most people couldn't. Well, I mean, look, I shared that story with you very briefly and for the sake of your listeners and those who are here. And by the way, what a fantastic format. I so certainly love your ability to lead through such a hyper-creative and courageous deep dive in such a way that you are. So thank you for that. You pointed out something years ago and it was back when my son was just a baby, like it was small enough that I had him in my arms. And I remember having a dinner in a spot that I wasn't scheduled to be in. And it was a part

Starting point is 00:31:58 of Miami where I wasn't supposed to be at. But nevertheless, I'm there with my family and I'm having this dinner and in walks Joanne Howard. Now again, very synchronistic because Joanne Howard, the founder of the Fab Five, the first player to hit a $100 million contract. He was part of the Fab Five, Michigan U. they were the ones who urbanized basketball as we know it. They had just aired on ESPN that day, a special on the Fab Five and its impact in the game. And it just so happened that I was in Miami me at the very same time that the Miami Heat were in town and it was his first season in the Miami Heat and here he wasn't the same restaurant I was in, which only had eight tables in the room we were in. So here I am in a place I wasn't supposed to be in, wasn't scheduled to be at,

Starting point is 00:32:41 I wasn't even dressed according to be there. It was just a very interesting and pleasant instance that I was in this particular restaurant. But I will admit to you something that when I left the room and he started the conversation with me as I exited, he commented on how great it was to watch me with my son would then fall in asleep on me while I'm trying to cut my steak and eat it. He says, you know, your son's remarkably well behaved. If you ever need a babysitter, I'd love to babysit your kid. I thought, that's super cool. I'm a big fan. Thank you so much. I took a photo, which was amazing. And this dates back, so I actually had a camera. It wasn't on my phone. And I left. I left the restaurant. I literally walked out the room down the steps, out of gate

Starting point is 00:33:23 that I heard behind me lock. And in that moment, I thought, what am I doing? That was an opportunity. Interesting. Like, imagine if I had indigestion, drank a little bit too much, or maybe my son woke and distracted me in that moment, or the car service arrived and it just whisked me away in a hurry. But there was enough time for me to be open and listening to what there was.

Starting point is 00:33:48 And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I got to go back. And so I did. I head back. I talked my quick packing to this restaurant that they were like, look, the gates closed. You're not allowed back in. I said, I really just forgot something. And they said, okay, well, go on back and get whatever you forgot. I forgot nothing other than the interaction I should have had with Joanne Howard. So I approach this table, apologize that I did and said, look, I'm currently doing something here in the world. I know your background. I think it'd be of interest. Here's my card. If you have it in you to call me, I'd love to take your call and chat about it some more. He says, you know what? what? I'll be calling you. My promise. I said, fantastic. And for the next few days on this holiday, I waited by my phone profoundly, and it never rang. So I get home, and a few days later, the phone rings, and it's Joanne. And we go on to this really great chat and talk about life and what's next for him because he was at his 17th season, and he's already starting to think about a life after game. And he says, hey, what are you doing tomorrow? I said, well, I've got no real clear

Starting point is 00:34:48 plans, because why don't we have a coffee? I got my shoot around in the morning. We have a game at night. I'll have a few hours. Why don't we have a coffee at this particular spot at this particular time? It's it done. So that next day, I am meeting Joanne Howard and we're walking up a boulevard in Miami. And as we come to an end of the chat and people start noticing, I mean, a Miami heat player who at that time they were heading into the semifinals of the NBA playoffs. He started noticing he was starting to draw a lot of attention. He's a very tall, handsome guy and of course a celebrity. He says, hey, listen, what are you doing later on? I said, well I gotta get back to the airport.

Starting point is 00:35:22 He goes, what do you mean the airport? Were you off to? I said, home. He goes home. He goes, you flew in for a coffee? I said, hell right on, I did. I came here for a tazzo chai latte with you, my friend. He says, okay, okay, okay, hold on a second. That's tremendous. Here's what you're going to do.

Starting point is 00:35:38 You're going to go out, buy yourself a white outfit, white pants, white t-shirt, and you're coming to the game tonight. That night, I go to the game, and it was my first Miami Heat game, and I became a Miami Heat fan for life. in that moment, I not only accessed his family who hosted me, his beautiful mother-in-law, his sister-in-laws, his wife, Janine, the whole family took me in like I was one of them. They called me family that night. And they called me family to this day. But as I'm rubbing shoulders with Pat Riley and the Erison family, who owns the team, and I mean, in that moment,

Starting point is 00:36:12 I'm realizing that that proximity awarded me because of the influence. the influence I exerted, the impact that I yielded. And that was a very self-responsible thing to do. And so as a result of that, to maybe paraphrase, it not only led him and I to go and do some incredible cool businesses, one of which where we've got to be involved in Pagani, Haratio Pagani, the supercar builder. We did that together, growing that company together. It led to us working together with David Falk, the founder of Jumpman Inc., Michael Jordan,

Starting point is 00:36:49 in Super Agent, also Joanne's agent, who's a partner of mine to this day because of that relationship. And I mean, I went on to win, not one, but two championship rings while he was at the Miami Heat, which are the first two rings that LeBron James won at the Miami, back to back, 2012, 2013. And all because I went to dinner in a place I wasn't supposed to. At a time, I didn't think I would, in circumstances that I didn't think would actually unfold the way they did. So that is a very, very powerful story around where proximity really turned me from stranger to an NBA champion, right? And it opened a plethora of new opportunities and possibilities. There's so many pieces to that. I love the idea of how it almost didn't happen

Starting point is 00:37:36 and how it could have not happened at all. There's an intuition thing there. Most people would get past that gate, recognize that they just blew it, but then say, hey, it probably wasn't meant to be or something like that. So, you know, there's a lot of courage here. I've heard you talk before about something that I never heard before, wealth psychology. And mixed into that are things like relationship equity. That was another one. So there's some concepts about understanding that world that you obviously have. A lot of times people step on toes and they ask for an autograph at the wrong time. So is that a skill set that you just intuitively had where you can build trust? We understand the value gap concept and you spoke about that so well, but are you just somebody

Starting point is 00:38:31 that has these qualities and an ability to notice things and develop these relationships where you're buying white outfits and hanging around with his mom? Or did you learn that stuff? No, no, man. I think we all know it. I think it's not even so much about I learned something that no one else has learned. I mean, if you've ever gone to a nightclub, a bar, even one that was packed or the line wrapped around two blocks or even frequented a particular dance spot that you just got to know the bouncer, I mean, that is an important access point. And you learned yourself, intuitively, and you know, you know I'm speaking truth here, on how to jump that line, how not to wait in the cold, how not to pay the cover, because you know how to take care of that person.

Starting point is 00:39:20 So I don't think it's about skill set or mindset. I think it's about value set. You know how to value the person that holds the access. I'll tell you a random story. I wasn't planning on telling you this one, but I'll tell the truth about myself, about something that was quite remarkable, that led to me meeting one of my idols. I was involved in a film studio at one particular point. And this is going to illustrate the statement I've just made so clearly. And I mean, I'm a part of the studio, a film studio that was responsible for the house of Gucci. An incredible film that really told the story of the family, the Gucci family on its rise and all the drama that came with it. It was starring Lady Gaga, Adam Driver, Al Pacino,

Starting point is 00:40:02 to name a few. And so we had the New York premiere. We had the premiere in L.A., we had one in London, but the particular one that I want to speak to is the one in New York. And here I am with the producers and the executive producers. And I mean, guys, this was a tremendous cast. I mean, and a tremendous director, a legend. And so here I was dying to get on the carpet to meet these folks. They were untouchable. You just couldn't really get on carpet with the likes of a Lady Gaga and Al Pacino and Jeremy Irons and the others.

Starting point is 00:40:35 Selma Hayek, again, to continue, this was an icon. to Cass. So I remember there was a moment where I caught a glance of where one of the stars were heading to. They were heading to a room that was backstage because after this, when the premiere was going to start, they were all to appear on stage to give a warm welcome. This was the filmmaker's premiere in New York, the global premiere, worldwide premiere. And so what I did, this is so funny, Dragon, I walked with a command straight to where they went. Curtains were drawn, ropes were drawn and there was three security people there and I walked straight up to them and I said gentlemen has anyone offered you beverages for the evening because I don't want to see you guys not hydrate

Starting point is 00:41:19 now notice I didn't say like I work here I'm a part of the studio I didn't drop a name I didn't pay someone off I clearly just asked a very obvious question like does anyone have bottles of water here for hydration and they all looked at each other said no one's offered us any water of any kind I said, hold on one second. Who wants flat? Who wants sparkling? I had two flats. I had one sparkling.

Starting point is 00:41:41 I left. I went downstairs. Purchased three bottles of water. Came back upstairs straight to those gentlemen. Said, gentlemen, two flats, one sparkling, enjoy. I drew the curtain. They let me through, and I was in the green room. A room with about 12 people in it.

Starting point is 00:41:59 I posted these pictures many times, but no one knows the story that led me to this room. And here I am in a room all because of what? All because of what? Because of a value set. I valued three people that guarded a room. Now the story goes public, now am I getting some trouble for that? And now, of course, security is going to tighten around green rooms. But the moral of the story is that how did I get in? I mean, there was no Jedi mind trick. There was no parting of cash. There was no promise of prosperity. I simply embodied a care, which was real. I brought them water. And then I proceeded because I owned where I was going.

Starting point is 00:42:35 So I think what's important about your reference to wealth psychology and relational equity is I think I really, in closing, I really value people. And I know that relationally there's an equity and you can grow it. And if enough, you can leverage it and you can even exploit it. But if you ever bleed it, you've got to repay it. And you repay it not by money, not just by wealth, but by adding back. value, by giving back, by caring, by giving, by providing, by providing for, if not leaving people better than, you first found them. Does that make sense? I love that. You're making me actually

Starting point is 00:43:15 think about Bruce Lee right now and his whole philosophy if you want to break your fist through a board, you should envision your fist on the other side of the board. And this is something that I learned from my father as well. Once you've decided that you're going to go somewhere, you no longer or look at security guards as walls, but stops along the way. And I see the care, and that was beautiful. But the way I see it, you were already in that room, and you just thought it would be nice to give them a drink on the way. Am I right? Did I figure that out? Dude, I think you did. I think you're absolutely right. Like, I didn't walk up to that moment saying, I'm going to be there. It's so different from walking back into the room, which is where this all started with Juwon Howard,

Starting point is 00:44:01 where I walked back in and I knew I would be in business with him, getting to call him a business partner, a man that I would travel the world with, a man that we talked about buying a piece of the Miami Heat together with. I didn't go in there with that intention or agenda. I just knew that as I walked back through that gate, I was back at that table and we were going to be in some in each other's lives somehow. I just recalled something that I wanted to bring up before. We were talking about, you know, Richard was talking about being open and we added curiosity. But I also saw, I also saw somewhere this concept of having ferocious curiosity. I always tell people that I think it's a wonderful way to go through life. And that's how I meet most people is I'm curious. You know,

Starting point is 00:44:43 I just had our buddy Nick Hutchinson on a, just a stand-up guy. He and I just became great, great friends. And the reason why he was on my show and that we've become friends, just like you and I, is that I was just very curious. I like to find out what makes people tick. And, I think part of wealth psychology is understanding what life must be like for these people, but at the same time, recognizing that they don't really get a chance to just be people. And there's something that happens when they meet somebody like Richard Dolan, where it's comfortable, where there's like, this guy understands how to communicate with me without asking for things and stuff. And one small correction, they'll take 90 seconds to do it.

Starting point is 00:45:27 Because you've referenced it twice, and I want, I don't want to leave it. there because given my background is behavioral finance and happiness economics, when you speak of wealth psychology, it really is for a better play. It's like financial psychology. Sure. Because when you look at your financial life, you have three distinctions in there. You have money, wealth, and worth. So those distinctions are very different. I've met a lot of people with a lot of money, but they have no wealth. Right. And when you see a lot of people with a lot of wealth and it might look shiny and really big, sometimes they're dirt broke. They got no cash. They don't, they don't have a lot of money. And so people look at worth. The real breakthrough here I'm offering you in the

Starting point is 00:46:06 final few seconds is in worth, it's the that which you hold value in and has value for. So like life worth is the value give to and get from life. So as we get older, we value things like time, freedom, and the power of choice. So I find that if someone were to say to me, breaking it down through the world or the lens of financial psychology, Richard, relational equity, you're driving the increase of value in what of those three buckets. Maybe some money, maybe some wealth, but most of the people I've interacted with have lots of both. What they're looking for is more worth. That's where the legacy term lives, right? To be able to leave a legacy, to be able to have lived a legacy that have made an impact, a difference, yes? So I just want to make sure I just left

Starting point is 00:46:51 that as a sound card because I don't disagree with wealth psychology, but I think that's is very limited. So I just want to make sure I added that. I love it. I love when we, make things even more fun. You're reminding me, as a chiropractor, I just had this reputation of taking care of the rich, famous, and I mean, I've taken care of worldwide CEO of Pepsi and the Royal Prince of Abu Dhabi and all this crazy stuff. But what's fun about it is I just became this guy that people knew was the guy to refer these people to. And if I look back, it was something that I wanted, because I wanted to impact as many people as possible. So I like the idea of working with people that knew a lot of people. But I think that I was just very, very fascinated about what it was like to be them, just as a human

Starting point is 00:47:42 being. And what I found is that it wasn't always what everybody thought. You know, there was a lot of stress and a lot of family problems. And, you know, I was the on-tore chiropractor for bands like anthrax. And I work with Lincoln Park and things like that. And, you know, when you get to know these people behind the scenes. They're just people and they have the same challenges. And I love the fact that you said, you know, even somebody that you perceive has wealth, you know, could lack money. So what I want to do is I want to close out that, you know, in a way that'll kind of lead to how you and I met and put a bow on all of this stuff. I wrote down here, I said, in your house of legacy, right? This is something that Richard talks about. How do you coach leaders to move from transactional networking? That's what's mostly

Starting point is 00:48:31 out there for sale. Transactional networking. I've even been guilty of teaching people how to transactional network, how to say the right thing and trigger this and prompt that. I'm a big fan of Orrin Klaff controlling the energy of the frame and all of that stuff. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about this concept of moving from transactional networking to this 100-year legacy relationship idea that has Jim Quick involved in between us. But I'd love to close out on talking about that so we can kind of like put a bow on the difference between a quality relationship and one where there's just a win involved. Well, you know, I'll give you a really crass example.

Starting point is 00:49:13 You know, take, for example, if someone just sells a particular solution that solves a problem. A mortgage agent provides a loan, you know, a tax preparer files a taxes. A banker takes a deposit or permits a withdrawal or a realtor either lists a home or helps someone buy a home. Oftentimes in the realm of transactionality, transactions are always about how do I fill this need? Yeah? Well, how do I fill this need? I have a need, fill the need. I have a need, fill the need. But oftentimes what ends up happening is that's a very one-dimensional existence, not just as an entrepreneur or as a professional, as a person, but as a business. So when you're transactional, you're waiting for something to be needed often. This is where a lot of people really, in fact, suffer from not being able to market themselves very effectively because they're waiting to be needed.

Starting point is 00:50:06 So in order to transcend, not just shift, but transcend transactional, because you don't want to give up your day job. You don't want to give up what makes you money, but to transcend it, to move from transaction, you've got to start thinking transformational. But the only way you get transformational is if you focus relational. So if you really see the human, which kind of is consistent with your ideology that you just shared around energy and managing the energy around something, that energy is coming from a human being. The idea doesn't have an energy.

Starting point is 00:50:34 The future doesn't have an energy. There is an energy. But without a human connected to that certain outcome or to that certain thing, it's just a vision. What I love about Jim is Jim and I've known each other for over 20 years. I mean, Oprah Winfrey brought us together. I was bankrupting her Canadian tour. We had just relaunched the old network. And I met him in a city where we hit it off and I got to know him very well because

Starting point is 00:50:56 Oprah prompted me to. She says, that guy is going to be a national best selling author one day. And he did. And he is. But after all these years, I've been able to work with him and broker deals with him with the royal family all the way to Amazon. And what's nice is I see a man who's up to a transformational mission of really showing people's relationship to their minds, their brains, and its power, being able to reclaim the brain,

Starting point is 00:51:23 so to speak, in all the power and its glory. So based on our relationship, but given the mission he's up to, there's a great example of someone where we really are, in fact, architecting, if it were, my own access so that we can create the kind of infrastructure for him to now put the scaffolding in place that will actually outlive his lifetime. So that way he's not just passing along his name, his brand, or even the IP, but it's purpose, its place, it's position because it's not just a transactional business. It's going to be a transformational gravity that will be found in curricula, corporate program, wellness initiatives, you know, new standards, indexes, and then the sort. So there's a great example

Starting point is 00:52:11 of someone that we both know, we both love and are collaborating with. That's the kind of viewpoint I bring to the table with him in thinking on what, how to close, if you said it earlier on, selling that value gap. That value gap is causing and creating what comes next for him. That's the future ability. I'm architecting the future of Jim Quick and all things quick. I always wonder, because you and I are forging a relationship and like like I am with with other people. And I often wonder if it's just due to the atmosphere that we met or the pretences that we met. You know, had we met at an event, it might have just been a handshake and that was it. You wouldn't, you wouldn't know about my alpaca, you know, fleece or anything. Yeah, no, but but I think, true, but to return to maybe

Starting point is 00:52:58 the educative format of your program is I think one of the things that proximity requires, like, we need oxygen the oxygen proximity is timing right uh and not just time but time in so the time you have with someone combined with the timing of that someone is is i think part of what creates a moving miracle to absolute miracle so for us we had time and it was also a good timing right and i think i think if you put those two equations into play for proximity because sometimes you you know it's like playing the lottery. Sometimes they call your numbers, but if you didn't play, you don't win. So for us, I think that's what it was. It was, it was good time. We had a lot of good time. We had days together, and it was good timing. I was, I was in a good place and I was really

Starting point is 00:53:46 eager to meet someone that had alpaca in their fashion lineup. And you showed up. And there's timing of two people coming together, but then there's also what's going on in their lives at the same time. And, and, you know, that's an important. thing to recognize, just because you gain proximity, it doesn't mean that everything's going to fall into place like this. Even if you are the most skilled and you buy flattened and seltzer water, you know, you can do all those things. It doesn't always work out like this. So that's a great thing to put in at the end there, the timing issue. And I know you'll appreciate this because you're a studious man and a philosopher as well. But the Sun Tzu said it best. It's like when two foreign

Starting point is 00:54:29 substances come together. And if there's a reaction, both are forever transformed. Right. So to your point, you know, when I met you, there's a part of me that was transformed and perhaps for you as well, and I don't want to speak for you. But oftentimes the way it worked for me to have an incredible Rolodex and an incredible, you know, celebrity profile and the ability to collaborate with incredible powerful people and some of their greatest managers and trusted advisors when we met. And because there was a reaction, both of us were transformed. So I, owe it to that source of transformation. They owe it to their source of transformation, the continuation of that relationship.

Starting point is 00:55:07 I think that's the greatest catalyst to being ferociously curious, leaning in, wanting more. You know, let's do this podcast. Let's do a collaboration. Let's do an event together. Hey, let's do something in New York. Hey, let's do something in L.A. And it's because we're feeding the energy that was created. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:24 So I think that's all grounded in that heart. There we go again. that's that's the value set right that's the appreciation sort of acclimation where it's like i i appreciate that so much how do i honor it constantly so if somebody wants to learn more about you where do you recommend people stalk you hey listen they can always follow me on instagram you know my it's my first name richarddolland d'olitan or they can visit me online at richarddolland dot com but largely what they'll notice is that there are some things i'm up to but most of the things i'm up to is in servitude to others. So, you know, working with our dear friend Jim Quick or working with other

Starting point is 00:56:04 folks in the world that are up to incredible things. So you'll always notice that I'm a, I'm an instrument for impact. But it's not just because I'm for hire. It's because I've been engaged by those who are up to bigger games and that I'm really super happy to be in their corner for. I love it. What a treat. I can't wait to talk to you next and hopefully we're going to see each other soon. But my biggest takeaway, considering everything that we've talked about, is that access is not something that is taken, but granted. And by all of these elements, so Richard Dolan, it is just an honor and a privilege to tell everybody that I've know, which I've already done, that you're my friend. Oh, that was okay. I will buy you flat or sparkling water any day of the week. And I want to thank you

Starting point is 00:56:54 for being in the Dragon's Lair. You did great. Hey, man. What an honor to be here. And I know just in the closing seconds I've got left, I'm grateful for the friendship. You know the love is real. And in evidence of that and demonstration to that statement, we're going to continue doing great things together. And I know that the best is yet to come. Here, here. Hey, this is Richard Dolan. And this podcast makes sense. That's it for today. To support the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, be sure to subscribe,

Starting point is 00:57:22 like and share, as well as follow the Makes Sense substack for free daily quotes, live streams, and blogs. And remember, learning without action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learn something today, give it away. That's the only way it's going to stay. See you next time.

Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - The Architecture of Proximity Power: Opening Elite Doors and Strategic Advisory with Richard Dolan - Episode 141

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