Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - The Climb - The Personal Legend Story of Maddye Trew and Jeff McMahon - Episode 114

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome back to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, where confusion dies and progress thrives. Today, we're going to be making sense of the climb, the personal legend and story of recording artist Maddie True. This is not a story of just her climb up the charts, but the climb every dreamer faces on the way to building their personal legend story. My two very special guests today are Maddie True and Jeff McMill. Maddie True is an up-and-coming country recording artist whose latest single, single of the year, is quickly climbing the country breakout charts. In this song, Maddie vulnerably shares her struggle with being single, and ironically, it's her singleness that's pushing her towards her success on the very charts that she's climbing.

Starting point is 00:00:50 Born in Memphis, Maddie has already performed on American Idol, appeared on CMT, then taking the stage at the Bluebird Cafe and open for big names like Big and Rich. Now she's preparing to release her debut EP, here goes nothing. Alongside her is her alchemist, you might say, her guide and mentor Jeff McMahon, a music and industry veteran who spent 18 years touring with the likes of Tim McGraw. He's performed on six Billboard number one singles and was nominated for the ACM musician of the year. Today, Jeff isn't just playing keys. He's guiding rising talents like Maddie True, helping her navigate the unpredictable climb in the music business. I first met them in Chicago

Starting point is 00:01:35 at a personal growth and creative self-mastery event called Creative Con. At first glance, when I heard Maddie's beautiful voice and acoustic guitar strumming alongside McMahon on the Keys, I knew that I was in for an outstanding musical performance. But what unfolded next for the audience was something unexpected by everyone, including Maddie and Jeff. Let's just say that the keys on Jeff's piano were not the only ones that we experienced. Their story, coupled with their beautiful sounds and songs, began laying the foundation for an epic journey of personal growth, unlocking life lessons that open doors to some of the most common struggles that we face in this fast-paced, over-stimulated world full of confusion and concern. Together, their story mirrors the timeless

Starting point is 00:02:22 journey of the main character, Santiago and Palo Coelho's timeless book, The Alchemist, where he is the young seeker that is guided by a wise mentor on the path to his destiny. It's a story about commitment, perseverance, mentorship, vulnerability, belief in the process, and learning to see magic in the blind spots along the way through life. This isn't just a story about becoming a country star. It's a story for anyone climbing their own mountain of success, learning to handle criticism with grace, to turn failure into fuel, and to recognize that sometimes you've already arrived. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, the amazing Maddie True and Jeff

Starting point is 00:03:05 McMahon. Makes sense. Here they are. It's an interesting experience to be in front of you, too, now. What the audience doesn't know is that this podcast has kind of become part of the story. we're doing something that we've never done before on The Make Sense with JC podcast, and that is to have two recording artists on here. It's just such a fun thing to have something that you're so excited about and that's so important to you that you do it anyway, which sets the perfect tone for this interview here. So I just want to welcome both of you and just quickly to tee everybody up and set the stage for this extraordinary conversation.

Starting point is 00:03:49 I was at an event called Creative Con, which I'm kind of one of the family. and I had heard about Jeff McMahon and Maddie True and I was excited about it because I love live music and those that told me about the two, oh my God, this guy, Jeff McMahon, he's done all these things. And then oh my God, this Maddie True, she's like, she's the next phenom. And then I was like, I'm psyched. When does this thing start? And we were in the audience and I saw them. And I remember the first time I heard Jeff play also Maddie's voice. I was like, wow, this is going to be awesome. We're about to see a great musical performance. But something else started to transpire, and that's led to this podcast today, because

Starting point is 00:04:29 you know, you're probably wondering, why do you have a couple of recording artists on the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, because we usually like deep dive and just like heavy, heavy stuff. Well, Maddie and Jeff were getting into some heavy stuff, and what was so cool about is they didn't even know. You know, the audience started to have this experience. I believe, Jeff, one of your catchphrases is McMahon on Keys. And one of the things that I like to say is, like, there was. were more keys happening that day than just the ones under your fingers, you know.

Starting point is 00:04:57 Right. And this just magnificent story started to unfold that, frankly, was very much like one of the most timeless books ever called The Alchemist. And I just started to say, this is a story about a personal legend of Maddie True, but also of Jeff. And the crowd just started to all feel it. Like, I remember when you guys were playing and we were like halfway through, I would just turn to somebody.

Starting point is 00:05:21 I'm like, are you aware of what's happening right now? and everybody figured it out. We didn't really know what it was. Well, we've been talking about it for quite some time now. And finally, we got you guys on the podcast. So welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. JCP podcast. And what I'd love to do is kind of turn it to you, Maddie, first. First of all, congratulations on all that hard work and perseverance and following through

Starting point is 00:05:43 and listening to Jeff, even when you thought he was crazy and doing things. Congratulations on your new single, climbing the charts. I'd love you to just start from the beginning. I know you went through a lot of stuff, but where did your musical career start? Maybe you could share a little bit about how it was a little bit of a bumpy start leading up to how you met Jeff. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:06:07 And I'm so glad to be on here with you after all of that. I am, I've loved music since I was a kid. I was a choir kid in school. And then I went to Belmont here in Nashville to study music and was playing around. And in 2020, I was like, I'm going to go to Broadway and Nashville and I'm going to practice down there. And so fast forward, my godfather invited me to a realtor function before the shutdown. And he is outgoing just like me. So we just parted ways and I went straight to the musicians and I introduced myself, bought their CDs.

Starting point is 00:06:42 And Jeff was actually headed downtown to play with our friend Zach Stone. And then I just followed up with him afterwards and we got coffee. and then before I knew it, I had a website, pictures, and just kept bugging him with questions because he seemed like he knew what he was doing. Is this pre or post American Idol? This is post American Idol. So tell us about that. One of my guilty pleasures, I'm an American Idol fan.

Starting point is 00:07:07 Right. But, I mean, that's a pretty pivotal story because in the journey, that was one of your very, very first very big opportunities to throw in the towel. Yes, yeah. Yeah. So in high school, you know, doing the quiet thing. But when I was 15, my aunt called me and she said, you know, hey, American Idol's coming to town. Do you want to stay here and go audition?

Starting point is 00:07:28 And I was like, sure. And so that started because I did it in honor of my nana. That was the TV show we watched when I was a kid. You know, that was the spark of inspiration that started, you know, with Kelly Clarkson. My first concert was Ruben Stuttered and Clay Aiken. And, you know, I just really loved American Idol. So when my nana passed, she called me and she was like, come on up here and I'm audition. So we did, and we took the family, we took the choir teacher, we did the whole thing,

Starting point is 00:07:53 and we got through the first round, and then we got cut. And then we all looked at each other, and we were like, well, we can get through the first round, you know, might as well try again. And so after that, me and my mom just made a girl's trip. We didn't tell anybody, and I did it all four years of high school. And then my senior year, I finally made it to Hollywood. And then I got cut in Hollywood Week. We made it. My aunt flew up. We made the rest of it a girls trip. And I came home and I already knew I wanted to go to Nashville and go to Belmont. And I had the confidence, but that was a very big springboard to jump off of to get here. It was a good time.

Starting point is 00:08:25 And yeah, that's a part of my story in that way. You know, what's interesting is you've kind of moved on from this story. That's what I can sense. I'm so curious to see how this evolves differently than the first time. Right. One thing that I know is that this thing that happened with Mariah Carey, because there's two things that I want to say that I spotted right away. Maddie had a little bit of a crushing blow. You know, first of all, she was very inspired by her nana. That's a big part because if you don't have a reason to do things, very often we will not do

Starting point is 00:08:56 them. Here's what I think is so fascinating. We could just say, oh, I went to this event and I met Jeff, but it's all of the things that could have prevented you from getting to the event where you met Jeff. Right. Could you just share what happened and how you felt and what made you keep going with the whole Mariah Carey thing? Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I used to be embarrassed and shy about the whole Mariah Carey thing, but now I see it as like, whoa, you know, I did that and that can actually be a little bit inspiring because who am I to have been able to get through that? So my third year, I had Mariah Carey, Nikki Minaj and Keith Urban and Randy Jackson. And I sang my songs. Mariah Carey at the end told me that, you know, I sounded like a talent show singer. And I didn't get through. And that day, it crushed me. I remember getting in the car and sit with mom. and being like, oh my God, Mariah Carey just told me I'm a talent show singer. And now looking back, I'm like, well, that was my mentality back then. I was a talent show singer. I was in high school.

Starting point is 00:09:52 I had that, you know, lens on it. And so, you know, over time, I still wanted to go to Belmont. That didn't, because then my next year, I got through with Harry Connick. And so I think I just was determined to get to Hollywood Week. And I think that I was doing so well in choir. And I just, I loved music because at the root of it, all was just the love of music. So I think I subconscious. just didn't let that get in the way, if that makes sense, which, you know, looking back,

Starting point is 00:10:18 that's kind of crazy. But it just depends on perspective and where it's rooted from. You know, I wonder, and Dragon, I know you'll be familiar with this. I've never asked Maddie this, but there's an idea of the obstacle being the way. And I know that a lot of times for you, whether it's you're playing guitar or the radio show, the things we're doing. How many of those deterrence are really deterrence for you and how many of those obstacles become affirmation for you to like no you're saying i can't do it well therefore i must do it kind of the thing yeah yeah yeah and because it's part of it like because it's all rooted in what you want like i i want do music i want to be tilling out arena so if i have to learn guitar i'll learn guitar if i have to songwrite i'll have to songwrite and you know

Starting point is 00:11:06 publicly get out there and mess up a chord on guitar and do it all and i think it's cool that i'm also doing it publicly as well. You can view it as an obstacle or you can view it as one of the things you have to do in order to get what you truly want. This is, by the way, I just saw it happen and I realize now that, you know, it's this organic thing. And Jeff is a very cerebral guy. He's a great mentor to have, you know, it's just that moment where he asked that question. Let me just read what a personal legend is. You know, what's interesting is I didn't know this was going to happen, but I realized that Maddie has evolved quite a bit since I saw her that last time. Well, but it showed up right away where you almost had to remind yourself of the Mariah Carey story.

Starting point is 00:11:50 That used to be a big part of your story, but it's kind of in the rearview mirror right now. So that's interesting for me to experience. There's something called a personal legend, and this comes from the alchemist. Let me just read it. A personal legend is a unique calling and destiny that each of us has. We all have one. It has to do with this situation where we have a profound desire to a conversation. accomplish something specific that the universe has placed within our soul. It's one thing to look

Starting point is 00:12:16 at something as the obstacle is the way, and that helps us like say, oh, it's an obstacle. I will go that way because I know it's supposed to happen, but there still needs to be something driving forward. So have you always known that you are a recording artist, that you have a song in you that's supposed to come out? When I was little, my family could tell very early on, and I would ask to get in front of them and have my grandfather present me. It was, and then my mom put me on stage. And I think after every time I got off, people said, good job. So I took it as, okay, onto the next, let's do it again because I got a good job.

Starting point is 00:12:52 I got, I got an A plus. Let's do it again. And then it just like growing up and developing and I loved it. And it was more ingrained. And it was an easy tell. So Jeff, as somebody that has a lot of miles in this industry and also, you know, I still want to hear how you guys met. What she's saying now in this concept, as somebody that very accomplished in the industry,

Starting point is 00:13:14 is this something that a recording artist has to have? Or do some people just have so much talent? They just skate by. They can become famous without even caring. Or do recording artists have that in them? That it's in their soul to do it. I mean, I think there's, first of all, I hardly know if I'm the one to answer this question. But I would say that the artistry,

Starting point is 00:13:37 of this industry is so hard that there is a part of it that you have to almost be delusional proactive to move forward with. I mean, there's 100,000 songs that go up on Spotify every day. So the idea that you're going to in any point in your life say, I'm going to record my song and I'm going to get it on the radio. Out of those 100,000, this is going to be one of the 100 that are on the radio. And then I'm going to travel the country and people are going to come see me. I mean, the odds are never in your favor with that. So I do think there's a point where you have to just kind of believe that and it just kind of has to be in you such that you are willing to work hard enough and sacrifice the things you have to sacrifice to do it. I think the thing with

Starting point is 00:14:25 an artist, and I know this with Maddie, is the things that regular people think you're sacrificing, you don't always consider as sacrifices. I remember when I had driven by, an old hotel that I stayed in when I was on the road in some of my first bands. And I mentioned to my dad that I'd stayed in that hotel. And he's like, you stayed in that hotel right over there. Yeah, I don't need to know you ever stayed in that hotel. And I didn't realize it was rough. I didn't realize it was bad.

Starting point is 00:14:52 I didn't realize that I was making some sort of sacrifice because I was pursuing what I wanted to pursue. Now, in Maddie's case, the game changer for her when she and I started working together was not about the artistry. it was about her willingness to work on our own behalf. Because a lot of artists, they value their team, but they rely solely on the team to make things happen. If you are not willing to work on your own behalf and promote yourself,

Starting point is 00:15:19 promote your own music, step out there and sing your song, you know, both literally and figuratively, it's not going to happen. So I think both are required. And honestly, I've seen a lot of mediocre talent,

Starting point is 00:15:34 succeed because they had a tremendous work ethic. And I can't say that I've seen great talent happen with a mediocre work ethic. So if you're going to have one or the other, the work ethic is going to get you further. That's so fascinating, potentially disheartening for somebody that thinks it's easy out there. So thanks so much for laying those tracks. I kind of want to set you guys free right now. But Maddie, we were building up to this event where you met, Jeff. And I think that's important. And once we get to that place, you know, you guys can kind of share the story about some of these lessons that you've learned and obstacles that you've overcome and maybe play us a little tune or two. Right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:16:15 Yeah. So meeting Jeff, I was just, I was proactive. I, um, it was a random place to meet him, you know, and I was, there were four musicians in the room with a bunch of realtors. So I just gravitated towards them and I asked each one of them for their number. And then when we and Jeff did meet, I was just telling them where I was. I was at and was like, you know, oh, if you want somebody to fill in on a Broadway show, I am here, I'm, you know, I'm available or whatever. And he said, nope. And we went a completely different direction. And then, you know, I just kept calling him. I kept caring. I think the thing at the start of it was that

Starting point is 00:16:50 he saw that I cared enough and that I was asking him questions and that I was open to following his advice. It's also about like who you take advice from, how you choose who to take advice from, and then just going forward with it. And so, you know, I mean, the website and then you have 160,000 views the next month and we're like, okay, all right. Well, I think that's true. We met first at my Waffle House, which is right down the street from where I live. And I chose that place just because meeting a young girl for the first time, everybody knows me at my Waffle House. So the idea of me just trying to flex with gold records I played on with Tim McGraw and look at my resume in order to go after one thing is very different than having coffee with a bunch of locals that recognize me. And I'm not trying

Starting point is 00:17:44 to brag and dangle gold records in front of you and find a starry-eyed young lady with dreams. When we met that day, she at that point knew that I had already cut my teeth in the industry and I had played on some big records. I'd done some. some big tours. I had done a lot of things, most notably with Tim McGrath, who I worked with for about 18 years. And she was telling me the things she was getting ready to do and a partnership she was about to enter into for artist development. The problem was when I looked it up on my phone, it looked really fishy to me. You know, Maddie didn't know me, but I was able to kind show her on the phone, okay, the first thing they say they can do is build websites. Well,

Starting point is 00:18:28 their website's broken. So we're not going to work with these people that are telling you they're going to make a website when their website's broken. And they want you to sign a contract for a year to do this and this and this. I think I can help you do this and this and this. If you're responsive, if when I say, let's try something, you make time to try it. And we can probably move some of those needles really quickly. And if we can, you won't be a star, but we will know that those people, are lying to you. There must have been something in this for you. When you meet these two, you'd almost think they're relatives, you know, because the way they... A clover. Yeah. But still, Jeff, what happened that day? Because there's so many things that could

Starting point is 00:19:14 have gotten in the way of where you're at today. What made you even care and want to take the time, that first step of just telling her, hey, be careful of this. But then you went even a step further and you started to guide her a little bit. Why did you do that? I would say the guidance part probably came later because that day I had not even heard her seeing. Honestly, Dragon, the main impetus that first day was just, I saw her getting ready to run out into traffic. And if I see that and if I think that's happening, to just allow it to happen would have been wrong. Literally, if you were standing on the side of the sidewalk and you saw somebody getting ready to step off a curb out in front of a car, you know, you would stop them. And that was essentially what happened that first day. The next couple of

Starting point is 00:20:00 steps of, I think I can do this for you, that was also kind of a first step for me because I had not taken on somebody to the degree that Maddie and I have worked together. She used the word manager for probably a year before I quit using Shepard because I was just trying to help things along because I felt responsible to because I saw the danger that she didn't see yet. Getting in invested in her as a music artist would come later when I heard her songs, heard her sing, heard her perform, and saw that when she says she's going to follow up, she actually did. And we grew from there. So, Maddie, let me throw this to you.

Starting point is 00:20:38 What transpired at the, I love how he says, my waffle house. Like, it's his. Oh, it's his. I went to school in Atlanta, so I know that whole lingo, you know, burn them, you're whatever, all that stuff. But, but Maddie, you know, a big part of this is also that, I mean, obviously he, he, he, had cut his teeth, but you had to trust in him. You know, choosing a mentor, there's a mentor that says, here, I'm here for you.

Starting point is 00:21:00 And then, so would you say that the way that Jeff, because it's just who he is, was kind of guiding you, he didn't have to do that. You didn't pay him for that, that information. Was that where you started to trust him? Yeah, yeah, because he's just that kind of guy. I mean, he, and he still is that kind of guy. He helps anybody. He'll walk somebody across the street.

Starting point is 00:21:18 And when he was able to show me like that, the website was broken, I mean, yeah, that you know, right there in your face, fact, but he was also a good person to talk to. And he was like, I think I can do this. So it was kind of easy. And it was so organic how we met and it felt like a God thing. And, you know, it didn't turn into mentorship until later because it just happened. And because I kept asking the questions, we kept having a good time putting things together. And we just had the same drive, the same goal. And it just kind of all unfolded from there. And then, yeah, I called him manager until he, he was it. So let's get into the climb.

Starting point is 00:21:56 Yeah. That's kind of what we're calling this episode, which from what I remember is what I would call a smooth, bumpy road. Yes. Yeah. So the climb, he has been up at the top and he is sending the elevator back down and I'm super grateful for it. But, you know, I didn't know how the industry worked or how to play the game or what moves to make or I didn't really know the structure. You know, I mean, I was I was going to go play on Broadway. I was just doing riders rounds.

Starting point is 00:22:23 I didn't know how to get on country rebel, which was the first thing we did that got 160,000 views. I was unaware, but I knew that he knew. And I just, I really wanted to find somebody. I really, I just wanted to help. I wanted to know. And I really want to get there. And so when me and him started working together, it just the wheel turned. And I, I realized that that was a way to do it.

Starting point is 00:22:48 And, you know, now my biggest piece of advice is get them in because, I mean, it's awesome. It's completely changed the trajectory. of how I take on the industry because I didn't know. Well, I think, Dragon, you said something earlier. You talked about how, I forget the exact word you said, my brand or the way I refer to myself was McMahon on Keys. And where that kind of moniker, where that term kind of comes from is most of my knowledge comes from playing in bar bands before I ever moved to Nashville.

Starting point is 00:23:17 But then I started working with Tim McGraw. and I worked with Tim McGraw before he had hits, and I worked with him after we had many hits and TV specials, and he was making movies and all of those things. But the idea of McMahon on Keys comes from how many people would come up to me when I was with Tim McGraw and assume I was unhappy. When are you going to start your own deal?

Starting point is 00:23:44 When are you going to get your own record deal? When are you going to be the star? And I would always respond with the idea of, I'm supposed to be unhappy working for someone that's successful, playing music that I like, with people that I like. I'm okay being McMahon on Keys. I like being McMahon on Keys. I like being McMahon on Keys. My first bands, I was not the lead singer. I was the guy that kind of held things together and glued things together and helped put gigs together. And I was that with Tim before we had hits. And I would support him in other ways when he does have hits. And when I'm with Maddie True, are we doing live like you were dying level recordings? No, not yet. But as far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what we're doing. I'm McMahon on Keys with Tim McGraw. I McMahon on Keys with Carolyn Don Johnson.

Starting point is 00:24:34 I McMahon on Keys with Maddie True. And it's just a matter of where we are in the ladder. But it's the same ladder. So I try to apply the same lessons of professionalism. in consideration that I would with her, with him, with the Grammys, with her first shot at radio across the board. So that's kind of where McMahon-on-Kees comes from. And that's how she and I have were to help put her on the same ladder that hopefully Tim McGraw has been on all this time. I didn't get a chance at this live performance. I saw you guys do ask questions. So I don't know

Starting point is 00:25:11 what kind of response we'll get. But do you remember both of you, the first song that you heard Maddie play and is it something that we could hear? I do remember the first song I heard her play. It was the way I talked by Morgan Wallen, which was a cover. I had just gone to hear her. I don't even know if you really thought I was going to come hear you because it was just a couple of days after we met. But that was the first song that I ever heard her play was that. Do you remember that song? Yeah. Can we do it? You can do it. I don't know. It's got a touch of the town where I grew up. Something at them California boys love Some people like to make

Starting point is 00:25:58 A little fun of The way I talk Sounds a little bit like my daddy And don't cuss around my mama Word you never heard that she Come from down yonder Man upstairs gets it So I ain't trying to fix it

Starting point is 00:26:13 I can't hide it I don't fight it I just roll with it Oh kind of slow Like a Mississippi rose It's the only way I'm Man it ain't I just live the way I talk.

Starting point is 00:26:39 Now, you didn't know that was coming, Jeff. That wasn't planned. That wasn't planned. For those that are listening. That was it. If you're just listening to the podcast, you want to catch the video because Jeff was just put in a position where he was just sitting there smiling saying, yep, that was the one. Yep. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:56 Well, and I remember because at the time, we were already jumping into content creation. and things at the same time because I had my phone and we we cut some sort of little piece together. I cut some sort of video piece together with that song that day. Just again, because artistry now, you've got to use TikTok. You've got to use Instagram. You've got to not be afraid to be on camera. You've got to be willing to kind of jump out. So we went ahead and made something that first day just to kind of know what kind of things are we going to make.

Starting point is 00:27:28 Yeah. So that was my first dose of Maddie True, musical genius. Thank you. As I'm recalling my experience, I know that, you know, there was some big events where you guys had an opportunity and once again, Maddie didn't know how to navigate it. She didn't know how to attack it. And you would give her some advice to show up at a certain time or be somewhere. And Maddie trusted you and she would just go. So maybe you could share one of those stories that I, that I remember. And, you know, maybe something that you guys played together the first time, if you remember. Well, one of those could be, I was actually brought in to do a writer's round for the uninitiated. That is when different songwriters in Nashville, they all get together three or four, and they will take turns playing their songs, and they will tell a story about one of their songs. And that kind of fills out the whole night.

Starting point is 00:28:25 The idea being one person doesn't have to come up with all the music for the whole night, but also if they each bring their own followings, you've potentially got more people to be there. I am not the prolific songwriter that many of people in Nashville are, and Maddie is, but I was supposed to play piano for the entire panel of songwriters. Somebody canceled the last minute, so my buddy asked me to fill in as a songwriter.

Starting point is 00:28:52 So I have a few songs that I've written and things that I don't have to be ashamed of, and I saw it as an opportunity to bring Maddie in because some of my songs are duets. So I did one of my songs specifically in order to pull her up on stage so she could kind of cut the line at the listening room. So a part of that, one of those songs was a song I do called Teach Me You. So we can do a piece of that. Let's see.

Starting point is 00:29:22 I traveled home to Tennessee from St. Paul, Minnesota. Every turn she wandered through my mind So I bought my ticket I had to go Back to a lady I didn't know Her hands were shaking I held it tight And told her everything will be all right

Starting point is 00:30:02 If you teach me you Tell me what you deep into Why don't you drive? Drop your tough, stretch your stuff, wrap up in my arms until the sun comes up. Teach me you by the time the night is through. I'm going to teach you how to learn me too. So come on and teach me. Come on and teach me.

Starting point is 00:30:38 Come on and teach me. Come on, teach me. Come on and teach me you. Come on, teach me. Come on, baby, teach me you. That's awesome. And Maddie, that was you kind of being the sidekick. You know, usually you're the primary singer.

Starting point is 00:30:57 Was that the first time that people heard the two of you play together live? Or had you already had some experience? Because what's interesting about that experience is Jeff was the guy that had a seat at the table. and he brought you in and let you, as he said, cut the line. But that was some important people hearing your voice for the first time, right? Yeah. Yeah. The bookers of the thing.

Starting point is 00:31:21 Yeah, it was not the first time that I had played for her. I had played for her at opportunities she had had. But that was the first time for her to join me. And honestly, that was the first time I had ever done a writer's round in Nashville. I've done many since. but that was the first time I had been pulled in as a writer as an entity for one of those events. So that was a first in a lot of ways. If I remember correctly, there were some other kind of like weird events that kind of synchronistically fell into place.

Starting point is 00:32:00 I'm not a huge know-it-all in the country, Western realm, although my mom was a huge fan. I didn't tell you that guys this, but the dragon when he was little used to compete in country Western dancing. What? Oh, I used to do the 10 count polka and the bullshit and all that stuff, right? Yeah, you did. I don't know if it was, I think it was either how you ended up doing something with big and rich or something. But I remember that you guys had a couple of stories where Jeff, you kind of like guided her or a couple of weird things transpired that ended up becoming big moments for you. Do you guys recall any of those things?

Starting point is 00:32:40 It doesn't necessarily have to be like Jeff saying, go do it. Just things that unfolded that weren't part of the plan. Big and Rich could have been one of those. I don't remember if we talked about it that night, but there was an opportunity that Maddie had through some people that she knew in her hometown area where she was contacted to perform as an acoustic act, the afternoon of, I forget the name of the event. Tennessee River Jam. Yeah, which was in the Memphis area.

Starting point is 00:33:15 And as it turned out, we were able to, you know, kind of trade up. And she wound up doing a full band performance at that same event as an opening act for Big and Rich, who coincidentally had opened a tour that I had played with Tim McGrath. And she met at her opportunity. to open. She met Cowboy Troy, who was a part of Big and Rich when they first had some of those opportunities with us, and she met him there, who gave her one of her best intro lines ever. Oh, yes. Yeah, shout out to Cowboy Troy. He was like, you need to have this, you know, voice when you come out and introduce yourself. And you should be like, how do I'm Maddie True,

Starting point is 00:34:01 you know, kind of like emphasis. And he said I could coin him for it. So that's how I open up Is that how do I do on Maddie Drew? So Maddie, for me, I'm kind of wondering how you've been managing your expectations. When you go on American Idol, it seems like you had a great attitude about it. But when you have these opportunities, do you kind of find yourself hoping and building up expectations like maybe this is going to be it? How have you been able to manage that? Because we're going to get into where you're at right now, where you're having a tickle of, am I on a run right now? How do you deal with your expectations of like, when is this going to happen?

Starting point is 00:34:41 Yeah, no, that's a great question. And, you know, Seth Rogen said in a podcast one time, the people that make it are the people that stay. I manage it because at the end of the day, I have walked into every room myself. And I've walked my path and my path ends up at these places with Jeff. And I know I'm on the right road. And I always feel like I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. I always tell myself I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.

Starting point is 00:35:08 Because like as that kid, you know, after the talent show, those people coming up and saying, good job. Like, okay, on to the next thing. You, A plus. Next thing. Oh, okay. All right. So then it's still working.

Starting point is 00:35:18 So it's just like this firm confidence that it's going to happen because, and he said earlier, you got to be kind of delusional about it too, because, you know, you are going to be one out of a million songs. And you've just got to kind of stick with it. So I have always held on to the good jobs. I've always, you know, held on to the fact that I walked where I walked and I got here. And if I can get here, why would I quit stopping kind of going back to the American Idol thing? If you can do it,

Starting point is 00:35:44 you know, why not keep going? Because it's fun. Because this is a big lesson in life. Yeah. You know, there's a very distinct reason why it's so hard. It's not necessarily that it's so rare that somebody makes it. It's just so rare, I think, that somebody follows through on a certain level. So what you're saying is is really, really important. You know, I'm an advocate of this. quote that a lot of people, I think, get wrong, this whole idea that life sucks and then you die. It's kind of true in certain ways, Maddie True. Yeah. But it's about how you navigate the suck, you know?

Starting point is 00:36:19 Yep. Have you decided that you're going to go do this no matter what? Yeah. So that's like, because at the end of the day, I'm like, I signed up for this. This is what I asked for and I walked to it. I don't feel like I'm in over my head. I have the support I need. I'm always prepared.

Starting point is 00:36:37 I guess one of the things where it was like, you've just got to embrace this stuff. And I think this was a really big moment of like that helped me just keep that going throughout college was when an American Idol before I went in, they put the contestants in a box and an enclosed box to try to like shake your nerves up. And then when the light turned green, you went in and you were immediately in front of Jennifer Lopez and Harry Connick. And so those kind of big moments at the beginning and just signing,

Starting point is 00:37:04 I signed up for it. So I'm like, all right, bring it. You know, it's kind of like you just want to challenge. Okay, fine. That's going to be so challenging. All right, fine, I'll take it. Bring it. You know, sing the national anthem.

Starting point is 00:37:14 Come on. Let's go. It's almost like, and Jeff, I'd love to hear your take on this with the expectations. But a big part of becoming a star. Yeah. You know, it's like we're talking about this climb. But I think a lot of people don't really understand what's at the top of the mountain. They might not be cut out for the job.

Starting point is 00:37:31 So in one way, you're kind of. building your star muscle along the whole way. And Jeff, that's kind of one of the interesting things about this story and both of your versions, because you know, you're at a different phase of this. You know a lot of stuff. You began advising her in the beginning. You prevented her from potential harm. Maybe shed a little bit of wisdom from your perspective.

Starting point is 00:37:57 Because, I mean, like you've got a bit of a unicorn here in this young lady here. And I'm sure you know that. There's also a lot unicorns and only a couple of them will actually follow all the way through. But tell us a little bit about what it takes. Is it something that takes I'm going to do it no matter what? Or is there a time to just like say, hey, we tried our best? I guess there can be a time where you say you tried your best. I mean, when, you know, when you feel like you really have put everything you can into a particular effort and to put more into that particular effort is going to take away from something else, I think, and I'm learning a lot as we do this. I mean, I'm fortunate to have learned a lot on the artist's side and I worked for a record label for a good while and I've picked up a lot of lessons. The music industry is so different now than it was even two years ago or five years ago, what it is a year from.

Starting point is 00:38:56 now will be completely different. You know, the idea that anybody knows exactly what to expect is not reasonable. Now, as far as Maddie's concerned, Maddie has such an appreciation for having opportunity and being in the game. The first time we ever went to discuss sending her first song to radio, I was concerned about the fact that we walked out of that meeting being told, no, we don't want to take your song to radio. And I was already trying to prepare my speech for Maddie as to how am I going to soften the blow. And she was beaming and grinning because, yeah, they told her no, but they told her no. She was in the radio meeting herself. And she was sitting at the table with the radio people. And to her, that was a huge win. The fact that she recognized she was actually

Starting point is 00:39:52 in the game. They didn't agree with her opinion. But she got. to express her opinions. She was in the game as a player. And she sees the upside to where a lot of aspiring artists would only see the downside. And that will make the journey a lot easier for her, certainly. Maddie, do you ever wonder if God has another plan that's connected to this? Because, I mean, I'm just hearing like, God, some young recording artist would just be so fortunate to have Maddie as a mentor. You know what I mean? So is any of that stuff unfolding as you go? Like, do you ever wonder if there's something else that is kind of unfolding? Totally. And I mean, also, I'm in my 20s. So it's kind of all supposed to be chaotic. But it's always kind of been defined for me. I knew exactly

Starting point is 00:40:46 what I wanted to do. I knew what I wanted to go to college for. You know, I knew I wanted that degree. I think I've just, it's just something that has always been in my path. Now I will say, you know, in tying to single of the year, and I joke with my family. I'm like, I'll go on a day, but God wax them right out of the way. Like, you know, I just kind of follow what happens in my path, you know, so like, okay, well, I don't get the guy, but I'll go, you know, hanging out to operate, whatever. And so I think it's just trying to find the balance between it and telling yourself it's okay, like where you're at and that I am open to other things happening, but it doesn't feel like it's in my path. I think I'm just always following the world and always following what happens for me.

Starting point is 00:41:32 Maddie, where did you learn to look at the world like this? I mean, you didn't just come out like this. I mean, you must have had some sort of experience or guidance as a kid, you know, because anybody that's listening to you right now is saying, man, she's got great attitude and stuff like that. And she's not just pretending. She's like this. No. Have you just always been like that? Yeah. Like the fire was lit in me at my first concert and I like that feeling I had never had and I'll never forget it. Like I remember being the kids standing in the arena watching the show and being like, God, I want to be there so bad. So I just never allowed myself to go down dark rabbit holes with dreams because I am a huge

Starting point is 00:42:14 advocate for him. I believe, you know, we have one life and that if I get an A plus after everything and it keeps going, then we keep going. You know, I mean, I would love the white picket fence life, but I, you know, who says I can't marry an NFL player later, you know, and then sing the national anthem at his games, like Carrie sings for Mike Fisher. So, you know, the world is our oyster and I don't think there's anybody that says, well, you can't date Harry Styles or you can't, you know, like, it's crazy, but it's also like, you got to be open to it. I do think. though, I know you believe that. Yeah. But I also know that, you know, Maddie and I have been working together for four years now.

Starting point is 00:42:55 And I do know that in the beginning, there might have been some impatience or frustration with not wanting to play your guitar or when is something going to pan out. And we have seen some wins. We have seen things happen successfully that took a while for us to line the dominoes up, to see the progress happen, and to get the payoff. So now I do think that you probably have more patience or more trust in some process, because we can look back and kind of go, okay, I was really impatient with that. But now I see where we did set up dominoes for a year and a half before they kind of fell and got the payoff two years later. So now the idea of setting dominoes up for something in the future, I'm a little more willing to trust that. Yeah. Fair? Exactly. Fair. Okay. So fascinating. I really didn't think about this at all when we've been waiting to do this episode that this is an

Starting point is 00:44:03 ongoing transformation. It's like, you know, it's, I didn't think, I thought we were just going to get the same Jeff and the same Maddie that I saw a year ago. But you guys have moved on. So much from that. It's, it's really fascinating. So I feel like I'm having a new experience with the two of you because I, well, first of all, we're really getting to know Maddie. And I want to kind of move into where you're at right now and I would love to hear more about the single of the year. That was a song that was written for you, correct? Yes. It was written for you, which is interesting. Well, but I think what you're saying by that dragon is the songwriters knew you in advance and they wrote this song in order to present it to Maddie True.

Starting point is 00:44:45 And did you, is that true? Did you know those writers beforehand? I did not know. They didn't write it. They didn't write it with you and mine. No, they didn't write with me and mine. It was like song shopping. I was just listening for songs and I will say this, the songwriting thing.

Starting point is 00:45:01 So it was like song shopping. And when I got here, I had to learn how to song write. And 10 years down the road, at the end of the day, I still just want to be a singer. So the idea of getting single of the year was to go and find the hit and to fuel a songwriter's dream because I've gotten to a point to where I can ask for songs now and I can write my own and do all of that. And so when I heard single of the year, it was a song, I was like, all right, this aligns with my values and I want to take it. I want the hit in the microphone and let's go with it. I guess what I'm trying to say is whether you wrote it or not, it was written for

Starting point is 00:45:38 you. And whether they knew you before or not, it was written for you. So I guess my question would be, because you obviously said, not only do I like the song and can I sing it, but it's me ironically. So, because this song has been heard by a lot of people. And, you know, I was telling them the other day, I like the song, but I know that it's a great song because I found myself like humming. You know what I'm saying? Anybody that listens to this song, I promise you, like later on, you'll be like humming to it. But how do you balance all of this stuff going on? I mean, how do you balance the fact that this song is rising on the charts?

Starting point is 00:46:17 But it's also putting you in somewhat of a vulnerable position that you touched on just before about being single. Yeah. And I don't know if you look at being single is a good thing or a bad thing, but how do you manage all that stuff? That's a great question. And I remember the very first song that I released was about being single. And then that's when I realized,

Starting point is 00:46:35 oh, I have to market being single. I didn't know. I had no idea what releasing a song meant. On that one, that was a struggle because then I'm also in a social media world, you know, too. But when I heard that one and now that I've, you know, we're past the first song and I've got a little bit of marketing under my belt, I wasn't thinking specifically about me. I was like, everybody is going to relate to this that is single because that is the coolest line I've ever heard. All my friends are tying the knot and I'm over here.

Starting point is 00:47:05 dying one on. Like I've been a bridesmaid five times. All of my people, we're all going to relate to this. You know, so like I can say I'm single and like, you know, there's aesthetically pleasing things on Instagram that I can copy and recreate and everybody, you know, likes that. So I think it's just honing in on the fact that you are trying to be relatable instead of just being like, hey, I'm Maddie True. I'm single like you know whatever like this one had a funny twist to it and it kind of had my personality in it and it was so fun and upbeat that it was like I can promote being single like that and not have it be reflective of me other than I've just been a bridesmaid and I'm a funny single person if you guys are game I'd love I'd love you guys to play that yeah so all of the sense makers out there can

Starting point is 00:47:58 go around humming it like like and one of the things that that's so great about this song and her attitude about songwriters. The majority of artists in Nashville are very quick to record their own songs, the songs that they write, because that means they're going to get the writers part and the artist part of the money. And they have an ego that gets fed by recording their own material, which is fine. There's a lot of great, you know, artists that are songwriters. But one of the things that's really fun to watch with this song, is part of Maddie's intention, I think, is, I think you even said something about it,

Starting point is 00:48:37 feeding the dreams of the songwriters. The people that are here to be songwriters and not necessarily be an artist. So I know of a lot of artists that record songs, and the songwriters don't really know what's going on with it until the song comes out. And Maddie's got an email chain or a phone chain with all the writers, giving them all the updates on what's happening,

Starting point is 00:48:59 and is it moving up the change? charts. So they're sharing in the journey of their song, which is really fun to watch her find the joy in sharing it with those people that have their own dreams that she's able to facilitate for them. So just know that that's where her heart is because I love that. Uh-oh. It's over here. I would assume that's a pretty common thing to drop your pick. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Actually, that could be a little personal growth lesson right there. be like, oh, right, you must have dropped your pick. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 00:49:35 All right, let's have it. This point, a breakup would be catching a break. I can't seem to make it to my first second day. Even mama gave up. Don't know what went wrong. Riding and living. Country songs. All my friends are tying the knot.

Starting point is 00:50:04 I'm over here just time one on breaking. the record for the most broken heart. Number one with a bullet, typing the charts. This ain't a red carpet situation. Nowhere near. No standing ovation. I'm sitting here drinking blue ribbon beer

Starting point is 00:50:27 winning single. Single. I got no speech, but I got people to thank all the never again's relationships that sank. If I'm a plus one or even if I ain't, I guess I might as well celebrate because all my friends are tying the knot. Now I'm over here just tying one on breaking the record for the most broken heart. Number one with a bullet, dropping the charts. This ain't a red carpet situation.

Starting point is 00:51:10 Nowhere near No standing ovation I'm sitting here Drinking blue ribbon beer Winning single Single of the year This is one award I wasn't expecting

Starting point is 00:51:30 To tell you the truth I don't want to accept it Because all my friends are tying the night And I'm over here Just time one on Breaking the record For the most broken heart

Starting point is 00:51:48 Number one with a bullet Taping the charts This ain't a red carpet Situation Nowhere near No standing ovation I'm sitting here Drinking blue ribbon beer

Starting point is 00:52:04 Winning single Single of the year I really like it I mean Yeah Like, you know, what I was just doing is I just kind of closed my eyes and pretended I didn't know you to and this whole story. And I just like wondered what it would be like to just hear this. That's the weird thing about all of this because anybody that hears the two of you play and here's Maddie's voice,

Starting point is 00:52:37 you just can't understand why the world hasn't heard that song yet. So, Jeff, we're kind of moving to the final couple of questions. Before we get to that, what does it take? I mean, like, how much of this is luck? Is it timing? Because I remember we walked out, this was the discussion out in the hallway. Everybody's like, Maddie True is going to be a rock star. You know, you just hear people that to different degrees know about what that takes.

Starting point is 00:53:03 But everybody that heard her sing was like that. And then also people were like, if the world doesn't accept her into the table of success, the world has got a problem. You know, so what is that, what does it take, Jeff? Is it, is it, is it a timing thing? Is it being in the right place at the right time? Because, I mean, it's just, it's just a delicious combination there. Yeah, I mean, I think if anybody could truly answer that question, you know, you would be a billionaire because you'd have the answer for everybody that's got this dream. You know, it's hard to say. It's on the simplest terms, you would say the right song has to find the right artist at the right time. But certainly, if you want to, to introduce an artist and a song to all the radio stations. You've got to have the means to get to all the radio stations. And how are you going to separate yourself from those other 100,000 songs that are being put on

Starting point is 00:54:04 Spotify every day? Now, no surprise to you, Dragon. One of the things that separates Maddie True is meeting Maddie True because you can't meet her and not realize that she's the real deal. That's one of those things that we enjoy the most is getting out and visiting radio stations and doing shows and seeing people firsthand. So they realize, oh my gosh, she doesn't have to have the studio and she doesn't have to have all the tools and she doesn't have to have all the filters and all the extra things to make it seem like she knows how to sing, she can really sing. That's her with just her and her guitar, and she sounds just like that.

Starting point is 00:54:47 So that's what we're hoping that shows and visits and visits like this with you, kind of introduce her to people. And when they hear her, they will follow her and share her journey and share her music and jump on board and be a part of the true crew. Right. Yeah. I would say that if somebody met Maddie or listens to this, or watches this, they might think that she's fearless. Maddie's afraid, just like anybody else, but she just doesn't care. She's going to do it anyway. And that's one of the things that I love so much about meeting you guys is just seeing

Starting point is 00:55:24 somebody that's as human as anybody else. She's got a blessed talent, beautiful voice. If you meet Maddie, whenever she was stepping on a new dance floor in life, you know, she gets nervous and things like that, but she doesn't stop. She just does it. And that's probably something that the big shots want in somebody. Because I've met famous recording artists. You know, I've been on tour when I was a chiropractor with rock stars and all of that stuff.

Starting point is 00:55:51 My last question, so I want to ask both of you a question, but I'll start with Maddie. This whole concept of, you know, chasing your personal legend and climbing up the charts and going after your dreams, outside of the music part of it, what is this journey taught you about yourself? Oh, man. Outside of all the music, it's taught me that anyone can do anything that they put their mind to. I think outside of all of it, it's taught me how to be confident. It's taught me how to look at life in ways because this is like this particular dream here is fun and opens doors to a lot of things not everybody gets to see if you don't chase this kind of dream.

Starting point is 00:56:32 And I think it's just, you know, when I have that separate life from music, when that's my time, I'll be able to, see confidence and the just willingness to want more in life and being okay with wanting more. I'm going to make sure that my 15-year-old daughter, she does play guitar, but she actually fights jiu-jitsu, but everybody's got their own version of this. But what a great message for a young, up-and-coming lady of the efforts of the world. So, Jeff, what has being a mentor? I mean, have you mentored somebody? Not like this, but have you mentored somebody like this, before? Not to this degree. I've certainly helped people with project and done things. I mean, some of my friends from college would say that me taking on a role like this is not a shock,

Starting point is 00:57:23 whether it's because of the way I help people build things in school or whatever or substitute teaching before I had a gig on the road. But no, this is definitely the first time I have poured into this degree, I would say. What has that role of being a mentor now? the music. I know it's very hard to talk to a musician and say outside the music. It's like, that's like saying without blood in your body. But outside the music, what is this experience taught you about yourself? I don't know that it's really taught me anything as much as it's reminded me of things. You know, I try to, I try to pay attention to the things that are coming back, whether it's me recognizing the first time that Maddie and I go get coffee when

Starting point is 00:58:09 She says, oh, no, no, I'll get the coffee. You're giving me my dreams. And I hear that. I'm like, oh, is that what I'm doing? I didn't realize that's what I was doing. I thought I was helping you build a website. Or when you, Dragon, are telling us after we get through with our performance, oh, you kind of, I loved how you tied this music into a personal growth thing.

Starting point is 00:58:30 Oh, was that what I was doing? I didn't really recognize what I was doing. I do think that I always knew that I enjoyed and appreciated the opportunity of helping other people succeed and being a part of that success, but recognizing that me succeeding on my own wouldn't be any fun. And it's more fun for me to be a part of somebody else's success, whether it's Tim's or Maddie's or my nieces or whoever. I think it's kind of helped me realize that. you were you were talking earlier about the alchemist and that story the book and you know if people haven't read that story a big part of that story it kind of you mentioned it and it kind of reminded

Starting point is 00:59:18 me that it's kind of part of my story i mean i have done like the character in the book i've traveled and i've been all over the place and i've gone on all those adventures and here i am back at home playing my piano, making music with Maddie right here at home. And if that's part of the journey and that's where it all led me, which was going out and doing all of that so I can come back here and help her find her journey, then I'm where I'm supposed to be. So I think it's more of a reminder than something I've learned is something that I've learned a lot of times, and I'm just learning it again. That's so fascinating. I love that you just did that, you know, that both of you guys have had this extraordinary journeys. Maddie is, you know, in her 20s, you know.

Starting point is 01:00:09 And I know that like sometimes Maddie's like, I'm getting a little old, right? And I'm like, oh boy, you know. But I love that. Maybe the message is to just enjoy the present moment, you know, enjoy the music that's being made and fall in love with the work, fall in love with the journey. Because, you know, in Maddie's journey, you're the alchemist, Jeff. You know, you're the one that is guiding her probably back home somehow, whatever that is. So maybe the lesson is, especially with music, the more authentic Maddie gets to be in her music, the more the world has a chance of not just discovering her,

Starting point is 01:00:46 but discovering who she really is. You know what I mean? Like I think that's one of the lessons is we live in a world where people struggle so much to just enjoy the present moment. And unbeknownst to them, if you can't enjoy the present moment, you're not going to enjoy wherever it is you're trying to get because you don't know. Enjoy things. So maybe that's a little bit of the lesson.

Starting point is 01:01:06 Well, and you have to fall in love with the journey to do this because if you're only going to be in love with the result of receiving the award, you're going to hate the years leading up to the award, even if you do get the award. So, yeah, if you don't figure out how to fall in love with riding a bus and eating cold hamburgers and unloading a trailer and signing autographs and getting stuck on the side of the road with a flat and persevering through all of that. If you don't find a love for that, you can't win enough awards to make all that worth it. You just can't. So last thing for you, Maddie. If Maddie True today could go back and, you know, talk to a little eight, nine year old Maddie True and impart some wisdom on her, what would you say?

Starting point is 01:01:57 You have so many good questions. I was excited for those podcasts interview with you. I would tell her she's doing it right. I would tell her hold her head high like she's been doing to keep it consistent. I'd tell her that the nose coming are going to be okay. I think I would just tell her she's got this because that's how it was when I was nine. I think I'd just be another person that went up to her and said, good job. You got the A.

Starting point is 01:02:22 And maybe throw out all the Mariah Carey CDs. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Throw out your Mariah Carey CDs. So as I always say, you learn something today. Give it away because that's the way it's going to stay. So have a nice day and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye now. Makes sense.

Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - The Climb - The Personal Legend Story of Maddye Trew and Jeff McMahon - Episode 114

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.