Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - We Summited Everest Together — Then Went Back to Work on Monday | Håkon & Hanne Hyttedalen - E193

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

"Imagine finishing your work week on Friday, flying to Nepal, summiting Mount Everest — and being back at your desk by the following Monday. Håkon and Hanne Hyttedalen are Norwegian consultants. They work full-time in corporate Oslo. And they have also won ultra trail races, run the UTMB around Mont Blanc, completed a 160-kilometer mountain race in a blizzard with a 77% DNF rate — and this May, they stood on the summit of the highest point on Earth. Together. As a married couple. Today we're getting into exactly how they do it — how they train two hours a day without burning out, what it feels like to nearly not make it off a mountain, and whether any of this is actually accessible to the rest of us. Stay with me."   Follow Håkon and Hanne On IG -  @hh.outofoffice   Follow Dr. JC Doornick and the Makes Sense Academy:► Makes Sense Substack - https://drjcdoornick.substack.com ► Instagram: / drjcdoornick ► Substack: / drjcdoornick ►Facebook:  / makessensepodcast ►YouTube:  / drjcdoornick     MAKES SENSE PODCAST Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast. This podcast explores topics that expand human consciousness and enhance performance. On the Makes Sense Podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works, and that perception is subjective and an acquired taste. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at begin to change. Welcome to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses. Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast.   SUBSCRIBE/RATE/REVIEW & SHARE our new podcast. FOLLOW Podcast: You will find a "Follow" button in the top right. This will enable the podcast software to alert you when a new episode launches each week. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/makes-sense-with-dr-jc-doornick/id1730954168 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1WHfKWDDReMtrGFz4kkZs9?si=003780ca147c4aec   Podcast Affiliates: Kwik Learning: Many people ask me where I get all these topics, which I've been covering for almost 15 years. I have learned to read nearly four times faster and retain information 10 times better with Kwik Learning. Learn how to learn and earn with Jim Kwik. Get his program at a special discount here: https://jimkwik.com/dragon OUR SPONSORS: Operly - Take Back Control of Your Work Day and Get Rid of All Your AI Apps - Welcome to the new world of Time Freedom and Unlimited Scaling and Success with Operly -  https://go.getoperly.ai/video?ref=jean-claude-claude-d-2a95 Blue Blinds Bakery - Handcrafted with all-natural ingredients - www.blueblindsbakery.com   00:00- Intro: “The World Is Thinking for You” 01:33- What Does It Feel Like to Stand on Everest 02:19- Taking the Most Dangerous Route to the Top 04:14- The Risk of Going First 06:51- The Moment They Made It On Top of the World 09:22- Survive the Descent 12:09- The Passion That Brought Them Together 15:02- 15:40 The Cost of Everest 16:00- Everest Permit System 18:02- One Summit Is Enough 19:10- The Climb That Led to Love 23:33- Mindset to Keep Going 35:16- Everest Is a Mental Game 43:16- Off-Season Routine 46:18- Shared Struggles, Stronger Love/ Training Builds Connection 52:30- Addicted to the Challenge/ Passion With Purpose Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When you finally reach the summit of Mount Everest, how much of your effort is physical versus mental? Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you? That your beliefs, perceptions, reactions, fears and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise? How easy it's been for you to slip into that default sleep walking mode and label it as life and reality. Yeah, that ends here. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. James This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control, and step back into that role as the shock caller and dominant force of your own reality. It's when you change the way that you look at things, that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up.

Let's rise up and let's make sense of why and how shift happens. Makes sense. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, Hoka and Hannah. Or I should put ladies first. So say Hannah and Hoka coming to us from Norway. Thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you. It's great to be here.

It's kind of serendipitous how we met through a mutual friend. I think you guys attended a wedding. And she told me the story about you. And I was like, oh, my God, this is cool. And after meeting them for everybody that's listening, they have no idea that they're cool, which makes them even cooler. So the first question I asked, traditionally people say like, so tell us your backstory and things like that.

But I want to go right to May 13th and just look at this idea. Because I know you had made attempts at this before. But I'd love to hear both of your perspectives about, you know, this moment when you finally reached the summit of Mount Everest, what did it feel like and what did you guys say to one another? And I was also wondering, like, what surprised you most about the experience? Was it all that you hoped it would be or was it short lived or, you know, was it worth it? Was the juice worth the squeeze? So tell me about that moment. Well, it's many, I think that's more than one question to cover, but I'll try to answer from my perspective. So May 13th, as you said,

as the day we summited Mount Everest together. I think the background is that we were super early in the season because we were kind of afraid of the cues. We heard rumors and not just rumors, but we also seen the numbers, right, for how many people are attempting to climb Everest this season. And it's a very tight season. So that means a lot of people and the human traffic,

like the human cues, is a quite big problem in Everest. So hence, we decided to go as the very first people, to Matt Everest this season. And we were very lucky to have a good team of Sherpas to help us get there. That was also one thing that surprised me because I had imagined being surrounded by more people have a very clear path and where to go because of the 100 people that's been there before you. But when we went to the summit, it was completely alone. Like, we didn't see any people around us except from the fixing team that once we reach the Hillary step,

were just in front of us and fixing, making sure that lines were in place. But that was quite special. And I don't think many people get to experience Matt Everest in such a, let's call it, wild conditions. Because obviously, when you are the first people there, you have to make your own path and the reach is very unstable and more sketchy, I would say, than if you go later in season. So it sounds maybe very scary, but for us it was the obvious choice. We would much rather be in control and be able to get like a proper mountain experience. instead of being surrounded by hundreds of people.

Let me ask you a quick question on that. So because the preparation, weather's got to be right, there's so many different things, and we'll get more into that. But I never thought of that. You know, it sounds like there's got to be a reason why everybody doesn't try to do it like you did. And it sounds like the reason would be is that the downside of it is that the reach, as you said, is a little bit sketchy and everybody kind of understands that. Is that what prevents people from trying to do that first ascent?

So you have to take more risk in the sense that when you decide to go for the summit, you decide that not the day before, but you actually decided when you're in base camp, which is four days away from the top. Oh, wow. So what you need in place in order to summit is you need, of course, to be acclimatized. Then you need to have a good weather window. And lastly, you need the route with the ropes to be fixed. With all those three things align, then you can go for a summit at the time. them. What we did, we were acclimatized and we had a weather window, but the route was not fixed. So among all of the 500 climbers that were in base camp that season, that's like, all those three has to align before you should make an attempt.

Because what you risk is, if you go up too soon, and there is many things that can happen that will prevent the fixing team to establish the route, you end up coming to the last camp, the route is not fixed. and for those of you who listening who hasn't been to 8,000 meters, I can assure you that it's not a place you want to stay very long. Because your body is slowly dying and you literally don't have many hours to spend there. So you risk coming too early and the route is maybe two days away and you're forced to go back down. Your body is lost it and the time is running out and you will not have time to do a second attempt. So that's why it was only awesome four other climbers that kind of took this gamble this year. But it seems like it was a great idea. It worked out well.

It worked out, but just barely. Like, we got to Camp four, and it wasn't fixed. Camp four is the very last camp to the summit. It wasn't fixed. So we ended up waiting six or between six and eight hours more than we planned. So it was very tight, six to eight hours more in camp four. Then the road fixing team headed back up to do the final part of the route. And then, like I said earlier, on the very last few meters to the summit, we were walking literally 10 meters behind them. Wow. All right, well, then I will let your lovely wife actually answer the question. What was that like? I mean, so first of all, I mean, I'm very happy that you explained it that way, but what was it like? Because you had, you had made a couple of attempts prior. This was not your first attempt. Am I correct? Or is this a first?

No, this was actually the first attempt. Wow. Okay, great. And I know that you guys have done a lot of other really, really fun thing. So we'll get into that. But what was it like? It's probably better to hear from the woman this experience. But what was it like when you guys got up there? When it finally happened and you're there, was it anti-climactic? Was it everything that you hope for? And what did you guys like say to each other? Or did you just like scream? And did you say, let's get the hell out of here? Like, what was that like? It is a really good question because I was wondering about the same myself before we got there. I was wondering, what if I get to the top and it's like, oh, I'm just, because we've done a lot of climbing before, I've done many mountains. And like,

what if we get up there and it's like, oh, this is just another mountain. Let's go back down again. But it was pretty amazing because we got up there and it was totally not the case. It felt like, it actually felt like you were on top of the world. And the reason for that is, first of all, you see so far back and you see the horizon. It's sort of slightly, what do you call in English? The curvature of the earth. Yeah. Wow.

You sort of see it back there. But even more so was the fact that you see all these huge, gigantic, 7,000, 8,000 meter tall mountains around you, yet you are still 300 meters higher than the tallest mountain you can see. Wow. So it was surreal. It really felt like you were, wow, we're on top, on the top of the world. And it was just so beautiful because the weather was perfect. So you saw the view and also the feeling of being there together. I think we were very, very lucky because there's a lot of people who go there without someone they know from beforehand. So you stand there and you're taking all this in, but you realize or I realize that, wow, I can take it in.

in together with Hoka and we can go back home again and talk about it and both of us will know exactly what we're talking about. Which is a very special, a special thing to have together. So do you remember what you guys said to each other? Oh, I don't remember. Do you remember? I mean, or you just, are you speechless? I mean, because you have this experience. This is where my mind is at right now because you're a couple.

You're a married couple. And we're going to get deeper into that stuff. But I mean, like, you have this moment. Did you just say like, holy shit? or what did you say something in your native language? I mean, like, what was that? What was it like? Or are there no words for it?

So I think also you need to kind of imagine or picture the situation where you are at the top of the world. Right. Yes, the weather is nice, but it's still like blowing 30 miles per hour. Right. You still, yeah, dangerous. You have the oxygen mask and you have your hat and you're very packed in. So whatever you say sounds like,

Well, maybe that's why I'm asking. So you each know what you said. Well, we took up the mask and I remember we gave each other a huge hug. Oh, that's great. But then I also remember after a while or after a short while, which is, I think it's recurring whenever we do climbs like this, I tend to be a bit nervous. Right.

Way more nervous than if I go alone because you kind of feel responsible for one another. Sure. So I was worried about, okay, Hanai, we made it, but now we have to think about getting back down. I think I say that almost every time we go on a hike. Yeah. Well, that's kind of the cute dynamic that I want to, you know, learn more about. Because, you know, when you're talking, you can see her looking at you and smiling, that's my man. And, you know, at the same time, that's your job is to protect your girl.

And you achieve this amazing thing, but say, we better, we better, like, survive. so we can tell this story as well. So is it safe to say that when you got perhaps to a different climate where you guys were able to speak to each other that you really were able to decompress what had just happened? Because that's what's interesting about these challenges that you guys do is they require 100% of your focus and effort and everything. There's no time for chit-chat and things like this

because your life is on the line. I mean, there's, I guess the last area of the climb is called the death zone. I mean, like, you're not sitting and having tea in the death zone. And then it's interesting to find out that, you know, when you achieve this level of greatness that so few have achieved, all of a sudden you realize you've got to get the hell out of there. It's not like something that you can hang out and do. So that is amazing. So here's a question for the two of you.

First of all, how long have you been married? Six years this year. Six years. And how long have you known each other? Ten. Okay, perfect. So if I had met each of you, before you met each other, say 10 years ago, you know, would I have recognized future Mount Everest climbers? All the things that you guys have done in the past 10 years and then six years being married, were you destined for those things back then, each of you? I actually went to Everest Base Camp with my family.

So my dad's the really outdoorsy guy. He loves hiking in the mountains, kayaking, biking, and being outside and doing things. And so I've grown up together with my brother and sister. We've been a lot outside with the family. And we actually hiked to Everest Space Camp a while before I met Tooka. And I remember when we went on this hike, I was probably the one who, who handled the altitude the best, just because I was lucky, I guess. And I remember that my brother said to me, well, if there's someone in the Breedis family

who will summit Mount Everest, it will be Hana. He looks very proud of you when you just said that. Like, yeah, that's my wife. So what about you, Hoka? I think it's a tough question. I'm trying to put the pieces together of how the universe has placed you together as a couple. So I think when we met each other, we were very lucky, by the way, to have met in such a young age. We both had like a strong interest for mountains in general and being outdoor.

But we had kind of the same experience. We were not super experienced, but we've been to like hikes and some mountains. But I think once we met and kind of discovered that we had this underlying passion for mountains, we kind of escalated as we grew together. But I think also if we want to climb up Everest, the typical person, who climbs Mount Everest, I think it's not necessarily there for the mountain experience, but you would see a lot of people who have amazing support and they will fly into base camp and they will do it mainly to kind of check the box if you know what I'm saying.

Like they want to have it on their resume that they went to Mount Everest. Whereas we have always been after adventures and the experience itself. So hence we as a rational people, I think it's safe to say that we wouldn't have spent so much of our savings on such a trip. And then background here is that we suddenly got a sponsorship who wanted to sponsor the majority of our trip. Wow. And then it was easy to, like, we didn't have to think twice when we got that opportunity. But if we met us 10 years ago, I think we would still be the same kind of people who are quite rational seeking most adventures for, like if you compare the amount, you have to spend to climate at risk,

to what kind of experiences you can get if you do other stuff. It's, yeah, I think you will get, it's hard to explain in English by English. It's not perfect. But if you take the same amount and you spend it on 10 other trips, I think accumulated, you would have experiences. Okay. Something equivalent. What is, I mean, I know, I'm sure it's tough to say, but like from start to finish,

what does it cost to climb at Everest? Like, can you give us like an estimate for people that don't know? I think the average person would spend roughly 70,000 U.S.E. 70,000. And that's U.S. U.S. and that would exclude gear and transport to Nepal. Wow. Time off of work, too. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course, that's also not included. So it's quite pricey. Yeah. Well, in a good way, it really helps the Nepalese society. It's a big business down there. So I guess if you're quite a good way,

call it part of it supporting the local communities, it makes you feel better. You know, you mentioned before, and I would just love to, I mean, for me, it's like to have this opportunity to speak to people that have done it. You know, you either hear about these terrible stories, but I mean, we have this beautiful young couple that, like, did it, and they look great, and they didn't lose any limbs or anything like that. So I want to take advantage of this. There's a lot of controversy, you know, about the cues and everything that you were saying, about how many people they're allowing to do it. And it seems like it's completely out of control.

I mean, from the viewpoint of the guy that just watches these things on TV, I don't understand how anybody gets up there, where there's like the line of what it looks like hundreds of people. What's happening in that realm? Is there anything being done about that? I mean, I'm sure it's very hard to stop people from wanting to climb that, but is it getting to the point where it's dangerous? for sure I would say so we met a fellow Norwegian who went later and was part of the larger group that went on the same day and he ended up getting frostbites on his toes because he had to wait in line to get down from it.

But to your question, they are looking now, I know, into more regulations. So for example, you have to have climbed a 7,000 meter peak before you get your permit to climb out of risk, which I think is a really good move. Because now there are a lot of people who shouldn't be there in life, you know. And I guess they've already done this on the Chinese side, because the most common way to climb on the south side from Nepal. But there's also a good route on the north side from Tibet. And the Chinese government has decided to restrict the amount of permits they give, which means that there is a lot less people enforced. There's a lot less people climbing from the north side

because there aren't enough permits for more people to go. So that is, I don't know if Nepal will ever do the same or what they'll do, but it is another way that they could restrict the amount of people. Is this something that you would want to do again? Or are you like all set when it comes to this? I think the way it turned out for us was so perfect. So perfect, yeah.

That if we do it again, I don't know if it will ever be the same. So I would be afraid to do it just because I'm going to ruin the fantastic experience. It's like getting married. Like, you know, you only do it once, you know. Yeah, right. That's cool. What was the- We actually did it twice?

We get married twice? What's the story there? I think that's a different story He got engaged in 2019 and then 2020 came and COVID hit Oh, it was a COVID story, sure We have one of those two What was the first big

Either climb? I mean, was it these stairs You climbed in Switzerland? Like what was the first big thing That you did as a couple? I think that was Ucuncagua Actually Tell us about that What was that like

And what was the conversation That you had like, hey, let's do this So the story is actually that So we met at university And it was one year later I was going off on exchange Where I was going to Chile for For half a year

Before I was going to South Africa for half a year And before I left for Chile This might sound stupid But I heard of some mountain Called Akun Kawa And I came back, or I met up with Oka one day, and I said, oh, there's apparently this cool mountain in Chile that would be cool to climb when you come visit me. It's called Akun Kaga.

And we look it up and it turns out that it's the tallest mountain in South America. Close to 7,000 meter. Yeah. And at that point, it's like, oh, that was not what we expected, but, oh, it would be kind of cool. And we'd then known each other for one year and we were going to be apart for a while. So we thought it would be nice to have some way to kind of feel like we're together staying in touch even though we're on different parts of the earth. So we decided to climb Akun Kawa and knowing that it was 7,000 meters high,

we thought we need to train for this. We have to be fit and ready. ready for it so we have good chances of getting to the top. So we made our own like a training program and we had this online Excel document where we logged everything we did and we log it in the same document and we'd kind of follow up on each other, how we're doing with the training and everything and it kind of made it feel like we were spending more time together even though we were not in the same place. So it was a really nice way to stay in touch and look forward to seeing each other in a half a year when we were actually going to climb up in Kaggle together.

I think we were also way over our head because we had very limited experience with high altitude mountaineering before. So it all went well like we got to the summit, but I passed out on the summit. Handa got altitude sickness. We actually got apart from each other on the way down because I was just, yeah, couldn't keep my balance constantly passing out on the way down. So I think we learned that from uh from uh from kumkawa as well like we should probably have some more experience before you get uh into these big mountains but that's but that's how you knew that she loved you i mean you passed out and she stayed with you no actually actually i know we're deviating a bit from out Everest now but it was on akumkagwa that i personally realized that i want to marry humma

is that right tell me about that so when we went to the summit like i said we've been together now for, I think it was like close to two weeks before we went for the summit push from the last camp. But then the way down, like I said, I was passing out and Helmner, luckily, were able to walk down, mostly by herself. And I remember them being apart from each other

for, I think maybe five, six hours. I gradually came to myself and got help, like some support to get myself down. I kept thinking that we should never done this. like maybe she's really sick or I kind of felt guilty. It was my fault because all the way up there, we obviously didn't feel great, but we were too stubborn and probably fresh in our relationship to kind of be completely honest with each other.

So we kind of pushed each other or I at least felt like maybe I pushed Hanna too much and I felt really guilty on my way down to the camp from the summit. So I felt this guilty and I prepared this speech. that I wanted to give Hannah when I met her down in camp with like saying how sorry I am and we should never do this again and it's all my fault so I kept repeating this speech to myself and then after five, six hours apart

I eventually get down to the camp below the summit and I can see Hannah and then she starts running towards me or running as fast as you can on 6,000 meters and we meet in the middle she throws her arms around me and she says, we made it. That's so funny.

And I forgot my speech. I was like, yeah, this woman is hardcore. I definitely have to marry her. Now, that's beautiful. You know, you have a unique relationship because usually people just like go out to movies and stuff and try to figure this stuff out. But you guys are going through these experiences that are very, very emotional. And there's so many different feelings.

And I think we're so fortunate to get like a real transparent look at Hokka. here who he really is as a man. And, you know, he obviously very, very much loves her. And she's very happy about that, I can tell. But he, uh, he's also a kind of a typical guy that kind of overthinks things and everything like that. So it looks like this relationship was kind of built organically along the way where she was not that ordinary girl that would think like you thought she would think. She was, so I guess my question would be, did one of you, I don't want to say, who is the driving force behind the relationship? Because I know you both add to it.

But did one of you believe in your abilities to do this stuff before the other? Or were you kind of both equally crazy about things? Like, is one of you the one that says, come on, we can do this? Like one of you says, well, I don't know. You know, let's be, let's think about this first. And the other ones is one of you just like saying, let's do this. Who cares? We're going to do it.

one of you is maybe a very, very technical and a little bit more careful. The funny thing I think is that we think surprisingly alike. And it's very often when one of us has suggested something, the other one looks at the other and it's like, I thought of the exact same thing. Like, this is something we've got to do. For example, last year we sailed across the Atlantic Ocean together with another a couple of friends and that whole idea

came after a dinner that we'd had at our friend's place where this other guy he told us about a dream he's a sailor and he told us about a dream to sail across the Atlantic Ocean and we walked home from that dinner afterwards

but he put it as like this is my dream when I retire I want to cross Atlanta yeah and we walked home from that dinner afterwards and we just looked at each other like, hmm, Atlantic Ocean? That would be cool. And we were both, we just both agreed that, okay, this is something we just got to do.

We got to grab this opportunity and convince our friend that this, now is the time to do it. And, yeah, just jump on the opportunity, basically. And I think it also comes from other successful things that we done together, right? We didn't start with Matt Everest, obviously. But the first date we had was actually a. a short hike to a local peak. I would assume nothing. But then once we,

and then we did like a first mountain marathon together. And when you get that sense of accomplishment, you feel like, or you build confident in, okay, I'm actually able to run a marathon in the mountains. Maybe I can even run an ultramarathon. And then suddenly you're on the start line of UTMB, which is like the pinnacle, in an ultra marathon like 170 kilometer race 10,000 meter elevation.

And we did that and we accomplished it. And then I think all these challenges that you are able to complete together successfully kind of strengthen that inner belief that anything is actually possible if you have the right mindset and are willing to dedicate and prioritize correctly. It starts just this moment. So fascinating because this is, I mean, first of all, you guys are so lucky that you found each other. I know, I mean, come on, you know, I mean, let's just acknowledge, like, there's, and just in case you guys ever go through some hard times and you will, there is nobody better than

each. So just never, never screw this up. You're not going to, you're not going to replace each other, I promise you. But, you know, in all relationships, there's some sort of common thread or sometimes there's, you know, there's chemistry and intimacy and there's some, like my wife and I, we don't climb mountains, but we very much connect on creative thoughts and things like that, you know, and that's our own way of doing that. But it's very interesting that the world looks at some of the things that you guys do as like massively extreme. But you guys are just in like this growth process as a couple together doing this. And it sounds like the best part about it is doing it together. It doesn't, I don't get the feeling that one of you goes off and does something and the other stays home.

It seems like this is a team effort. Am I right in that? 100%. Yeah, 100%. That's so cool. Let's talk a little bit about, this is your comfort zone. but, you know, a lot of the people that are listening think that they can't do things. You know, they, I mean, you guys are obviously, we're drawn to this, but, you know, I like to let

everybody know that everybody's capable of doing anything that they set their mind to. This just happens to be what you guys are doing. But, you know, what is it, you know, let me see how I could phrase this. This idea of going all in, like deciding you're going to do something, accepting all of the, the risks, the dangers and everything, you know, requires an all-in kind of a thing. You have to go all in with something. You can't, I would assume you can't half-ass your way through any of these things. You have to commit to doing it like no matter what.

And you guys probably don't have a very easy, like, let's turn around and quit, you know, like you guys push each other. So what have you learned about that in life? I mean, because you also have. have your work life and eventually if you're blessed you'll have children you don't have children right no no that's that's the biggest mountain you'll ever climb by the way that's going to that's going to make Everest look like nothing um but what have you guys learned about or what can you share about you know this idea of committing to something and life because you know everybody out there

does things as long as it suits them But then when the challenges come and in your, you know, you guys are passing out and, you know, there's frostbite and there's, there's, you know, unc cleared paths and all of this crazy stuff. And you guys keep going. So what are, what are you, what have you guys learned about just commitment and just going after things all in? Like, what would, how would you share that with your children, you know, the importance of that? I think it helps to be really aware of. why you're doing something and what you want to achieve from it. And like for Mount Everest as the example,

I think we knew from the very start that how sad it would be if we didn't actually get to the top. Or like, I mean, we still enjoyed every day of the whole trip. It was, it was beautiful. We had a fantastic trip. But it would still be kind of a, yeah, like, it was amazing, but we didn't make it. Like, shoot.

And being really aware of that and that I don't want that to happen. You don't want the amazing story to end in a sad story or end in a too bad. So knowing that, knowing what your goal is and what you want to achieve really helps on the hardest points. And it helps being two, of course, because most likely and hopefully you'll have the hard points at different points in time. So then we can remind each other that, come on, we can make it, we can do it, remember what the goal is, and remember where we're going, why we're here, we're here together, and you can support each other and help each other out if there's something you're struggling

with. And that and just keeping your mindset that, okay, I just got to go, I just got to keep going, keep going, keep going, and you'll get there eventually. if you just take one step at a time, you're definitely. I guess what Hanna is describing is like the skill of not giving up easily when things get tough. And what Hannah is saying, I think that's for us at least we find a strength being two together. Like Han said, if one is down, hopefully the other is a bit higher and you can lean on one another. And of course, it really sucks.

We had one incident in the very beginning. I was going to ask you, I would love to hear a story where one of you was like, I can't do it, but the other one lifted you up and when you finished it. Yeah, so we had some issues in the first week hiking in during our hiking in the valley. I got some stomach bug and, you know, couldn't hold any food. And then your energy just drops and you're still in altitude. so it's harder for your body to recover and you're there and you're like and that's the easiest part and you're yeah yeah right you're at 3,000 meter and you're

struggling to get from your bed to the toilet and you're like how on earth am I going to make it to the summit it's like it looks very dark but then honnik came and cheered me up and yeah and I felt like okay we talked about this like we had even beforehand written down like what are likely scenarios to happen and diarrhea being one of them. Like, how will we mitigate that when it first happens? So being able to have that together, I think it's a strange. And then not many days later, you were finally feeling better. We've climbed, hiked further in.

And then it's the opposite. Suddenly I'm the one with diarrhea, vomiting and everything. And then Hoga's like, Hannah, remember this and this and this? do it, we can make it. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it really, really helps to be too. Isn't that what makes it?

I mean, summiting Everest is amazing, but isn't it the hard work that, I mean, it's the same thing with like being in a wonderful relationship. You know, I mean, I know you guys are perfect for each other, but that doesn't mean that it's easy. Nothing's easy. So I just find that like the summiting anything, whether it's a mountain, or a relationship, you know, what makes it so special is all of these hard times, you know? So I think the challenge people have to have is like, that's the best part is getting through

things to get, as you said, you know, the why is empowering. How about this? When it comes to endurance, because that's kind of what we're talking about, how much of endurance is physical versus mental? How much of your effort in achieving these things that you've done is physical versus is mental. For Everest, I would say more mental than physical strain. So I would probably put it at 70% mental. Wow. So if somebody wasn't in perfect shape, but they were in perfect mental shape, like focus, they would struggle, but they could make it a certain distance. Yeah. And I think

that's why so Hokan mentioned it earlier as well that we didn't start with Mount Everest we started with smaller things and when you see that you can manage to do this it really helps your mental strength that oh yeah but I know my body can do it I know my body can push itself and it won't get ruined so you manage to push yourself a little bit more and that really helps build up the mental strength because you know that the body, it's amazing. The body can do amazing things and it can resist so much. So by learning that little, by little, you realize that, okay, I can manage it this time too. And I also see it.

I think the first time I really discovered this and probably also when I learned that, oh, my mental strains is actually quite good, was when I entered the military. I applied for this selection program for special forces. And we were roughly 1,000 people in the beginning of the selection program. And I met up. I had never been to the gym before. And I met by hundreds of 18 years old guys who have been to the gym for years. And they just look like machines.

Yeah, machines. I am intimidated by them. like okay this is not the place for me probably and it was a four four week selection program and in the end we were 70 people who completed and i can tell you that it was not the the one with the biggest biceps right it was the ones with the the biggest uh endurance and brains and things tell me about you know i i kind of looked into your background and all these crazy things And I think that there was a race that you did called the Rondane 100. Is that what it's called?

So I looked it up because the whole concept of quitting is fascinating to me. And we're talking about this now. But I looked up a statistic that said that only 23% of people finish that. So, and I know that there's all sorts of reasons people don't. But you guys finished it, correct? Okay. So how do you distinguish between, listening to your body and listening to your fear and your mind and things like that.

Because, you know, there's this moment where your brain tells you you can't do something. And what we know, you know, if you look at you guys or David Goggins or something like that, it's extraordinary what the body can end up doing if you allow it to have a chance. But how do you distinguish, do you guys even know how to distinguish, like, listening to your body? Do you know when it's time to quit or do you guys just don't have any quit in you? I guess that's our weak point maybe that we should listen more to our body. Because when you do go out and do those extreme races, for example, and you push your body too far, you get punished for it in terms of injuries or, yeah.

So I'm not sure if I'm the right person to answer that question, actually. but yeah i think it's been i think it's um i guess it's probably a mix between a lot of luck i guess you mentioned the the round day in our rondana 100 um in that run we were pushing and we got so far and in the end it was a really special experience because um the people around us who started quitting. We got to, like, it was so cold. It was pouring rain, the whole race. This is a race that goes over a couple of days and, and, or yeah, 30 hours. 30 hours, whatever. And it was pouring rain. Some places it was snowing. It was so cold. And the amazing thing was at some point, a point during the night, we were almost halfway.

or a little over halfway or whatever, people were quitting. And we said, no, no, we'll try a little longer. We'll go further. And we got, because we were so cold, but some of the people who were quitting, they said, take our clothes. And they gave us wool clothes and extra stuff so that we would keep warm because they saw that we're going to continue. They didn't need their clothes.

We needed them. So they gave them to us. And it was like, I, think it's just, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of the mentality and being two of us together, but also on all the stuff we do, it's also thanks to the people around us again, on Everest, the Sherpas, on this run, the other runners. And it's always, yeah, having more people around you that want to help and be there for you. it makes a huge difference

and it's a big thanks to that that we actually managed to achieve many of these things. It's interesting. You know, it's almost like there's moments where you have to trust in the process, trust in the universe, but also trust in the team.

You know, when you're up in your head and you're thinking there's no way we can do something, like sometimes we probably forget about the fact that you have prepared for everything. you know, and you've got this amazing team. And then all of a sudden the universe sometimes,

I think most people don't stay in the arena of play long enough to experience something like that. You know, like if everybody quits at the same time, nobody will experience somebody saying, here, take our wool coat and learn from that process. So maybe the lesson there, as far as like knowing when, you know, to distinguish your body from your mind is, maybe the lesson is to just go a little further.

Allow yourself to always just go a little further so you can experience some of the magic. I mean, does that resonate with you guys sometimes? I mean, have you ever, has that process ever let you down? Like, have you ever pushed yourself and said that was a big mistake? No, probably not. Yeah, so, I mean, it seems like that's probably one of the lessons. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about preparation. because we were talking about mental versus physical,

but I know that, you know, whether it's Everest or anything, first of all, are you guys training for anything now? Not at the moment. Now we're still kind of just processing and being happy about the great adventure we just had and living in the moments of knowing that one day there will be a new adventure. We don't know what it is yet, but it will show up eventually. So first question is, let's call this off season, meaning you're not actively training for something. What is your, because you guys work, you go to work like, I assume something like nine to five.

Do you work at the same place? No. No. Okay. So what is your morning now, right now, we're not training for Everest. What does your morning and after work routine look like now? I think that's a funny part. It looks very similar.

So you're still in full training as if you were getting ready for something. So then that'll answer my next question. What does it look like? But it is a bit less overall, like the intensity. Sure. Like now we can allow ourselves to go for run with friends, even though it wouldn't like natural fit in the schedule. Like we would accommodate for those kind of things.

Right. Whereas if you're leading up to a race or an expedition, you would have to be more strict with your routines. So what time do you guys get? get up, what does it look like before work and after work? Because I think everybody here is just assuming that as soon as this interview is over, you're going to go run and climb something. So we usually get up at around 5 a.m. or 5.30,

depending on exercise we're doing. Some mornings when we go swimming, for example, there is a limitation of the opening hours, so they don't open more maybe 6 a.m. But usually around 5 to 5.30, we get up. We have always one workout before work. Get to work around 8. And then I would say four times, three times a week.

We would have a second workout in the afternoon. And then depending on workload, we might have to work during the evening. But we tried to get in bed between 9 and 10. p.m. Because it might sound like oh, the super humans, they don't sleep. They, you know, sleep three, four hours.

They have to sleep, yeah. But sleep is so important. So we try to have a rule that if we get less than six-hour sleep, we would have to skip the morning workout and rather sleep in. At least in theory, that's how we want

to have it, but usually it's like, ah, but it's like, you know, if you take maybe a double express in the morning, you can still do it. But ideally it's like getting up at five, two workouts a day, to bed at nine, to get proper recovery. So first of all, my wife, you said, you had mentioned Hannah that you were in South Africa. My wife is from South Africa. She's South African. Interesting place.

And we actually just adopted a little girl from South Africa. I lived there for almost two years. but you know my wife is a sex therapist and we're constantly talking about relationships and things like this here's an interesting question um you know we're not gonna we're not I'm going to ask you anything personal about like your bedroom but when it comes to intimacy do you guys experience intimacy like loving intimacy when you're working out together is there Is there some sort of thing that happens exercising together and doing all these things together that makes your love grow stronger and feel really connected with one another?

Because the workouts that you guys do, most people would think are like, hell, you guys love it. And it's like you probably would be depressed if you didn't do it. I mean, I know that I love my workouts as well. But how does that affect your relationship and stuff? Like, do you guys have moments where you're just like feeling what most people would call intimacy when you're working out? I think a few things maybe too. Well, he wants to comment on this one, Hannah. This is great.

First one, definitely. Like, doing stuff together, I think regardless of what you're doing, like, if your Everest is going to the most perfect cafe in Paris, then sure, that's your Everest. Like, just as long as you do it together, will. eventually create stronger bond. So that would be my advice number one to other couples is like whatever you do, try to do together. Like even if

we have different pace during interval sessions, we still manage to find some way we can do it together. Like we just, okay, we, instead of doing interval per meter, we do interval per second and then we will finish at the same time.

Right. As an example. So that definitely like, you do as long as you do together will strengthen your relationship. Then I think just to correct you, it's not like we love every workout. And I would say at least in a normal work week, most workouts would do it for consistency because we know that what we really love is, for example, running in the mountains or do a really cool ski tour in the winter. And to be able to do those kind of adventure that we really appreciate, you need a certain level of fitness.

Or at least then that's when it becomes fun. Interesting. And you can go skiing and you can use a lift to get to the top and you'll get amazing downhill skiing. But I can assure you it doesn't taste as good as if you had walked it up. Yeah, true verse. Put in the effort and then you appreciate the views much more. Well, that's just a minor correction. Like, it's not like we, we wake up at 5 a.m. every morning and are super motivated to go for a treadmill into all session.

But it's more for, like, assistance. Well, I mean, I'm up every day for probably 15 years at 4 a.m. and I have my own routine. And, you know, people think, oh, you're crazy. And I said, well, you need to know that I don't like doing that, you know. But, you know, when it comes to relationships and when it comes to people, and this is back to what Hannah, you said in the beginning about, like, if you have a reason to do something and there's value attached to it, you know, you can still hate something,

but you'll have no trouble doing it because of the value on the other side. I just can't wait if the universe ever makes it happen to meet your children. I mean, like, these kids are going to be like animals, you know? They're watching their parents. What a wonderful thing to pay forward. I mean, you guys have such a beautiful relationship. And, you know, that's probably one of the most important things for children growing up is to watch their parents.

You know, they watch everything. Here's one last question. And I don't know who could answer this, but you guys have been through a lot of extreme hardship. And I would assume that you've been through hardship in life in general, too. It doesn't always happen when you're doing these mountain climbs and stuff like that. But what have you guys learned going through all of these extreme hardships and things that you've been through? What is that revealed about your relationship with one another?

I think it's mostly the value of being there for each other in one way or another. And it's been in many different forms. but just knowing that no matter what it is, I'll always have Hoka there in some way. Yeah. Just the value of that is basically, I think that's the biggest thing I've learned from all of it, how valuable that is.

Very cool. And I think also you can tell a lot about a person on how they deal with setbacks or hardship, as you put it. And personally, we also try to, to kind of analyze, okay, if something went wrong or didn't go as planned, how do we deal with that in order to do it better next time? Because mostly, I would say, probably 99% of the time where you have a setback and your reaction is like a bad reaction, there is usually not something you really can't do about it. But still, you get angry or, you get angry.

upset or you quit or you react in a way that is actually quite unnecessary because if there's things out of your control that you can't do anything about then okay it sucks but it doesn't help to you know feel bad or not trying to do the best out of it right Would you guys consider yourselves elite athletes? Because you don't seem like that kind of stuff is important to you. But are you aware of what you've accomplished and how rare it is? Maybe not. Our main goal is to have fun.

That's the most important thing. We even have on our wedding rings. If you put them together, you can see, among other things, you can see an ice cream cone, which represents the fun. The fun. Yeah. So you guys do eat ice cream every now and then. Oh, yes.

A lot of ice cream. One last question that should pop into my head is, do you guys ever have moments where you wonder if you're addicted to all this stuff? Because, I mean, there is a place where you can go too far, you know. And maybe you don't entertain that right now, but you guys do a lot of dangerous stuff. And it seems like see somebody do something. And Hannah's like, maybe we should do that, you know. So do you guys ever wonder?

Is there ever a discussion of maybe you guys are, you know, addicted to this stuff? We probably are. But I would also say that I think if I hadn't met Hannah, I would probably still do extreme stuff. And I think chances of me being here alive today is way less. Yeah, without her. With Hama, I think we naturally are more cautious and look after each other. Like when I'm scared on a climb, it's mainly because I'm scared something will happen to Hama. And I know Hama has the same feeling for me, right?

Right. So that kind of naturally hold us a bit back from the too extreme. Like we also set a limit on we would not do rock climbing because we, we seen too many accidents. Right. For us, I think we have more to lose because we are a couple as opposed to being single. Yeah. I love it.

I can't wait for you guys to watch the video of this so you can see while each of you are talking, the other one looking at your talk. Because you guys like, you guys are so cute together. It's great. Hannah, did you want to say anything about that, about the idea of like, do you ever wonder if you're addicted to this stuff? Because I think he did a great job in answering that. No, yeah, I agree. I don't really have too much, much to add. I think yeah I think we are addicted

but we also know where the line goes and know where to not step because we are not reckless either so yeah I think you have to be obsessed with anything to get to accomplish it or else you'll quit

go ahead what we're going to say yeah just maybe a small Adam because my I have a younger sister and she often asks me like oh don't you just want to become a mountain guide and you can do this full time. But I think what we are addicted to is kind of the combination of challenging ourselves

intellectually at work, but then also being able to escape into the mountains and challenge ourselves in a more physical way. So that kind of balance, I guess it's called work-life balance, is what we found really I don't know how to put it. Intriguing? Yeah. Yeah. No, you guys, it's like we would call that living your best life, you know.

Yeah. What is it that each of you do for work? I used to be a management consultant. But now I'm with a company called N-scale building data centers. Interesting. And Hannah? And I'm a data engineer. Okay.

So you guys are also smart. And you enjoy, and do you, are you fully engaged in your career? And are you fulfilled there as well? I would say, yeah. Yeah, awesome. So that's the only time that you don't see each other. You go to work and then, but you guys, outside of that, you know, that's interesting. Well, what a joy to have you guys on the show.

A lot of people are going to want to have you on their shows after they hear this. Are you guys in a position where you're always, where you're looking for people to support you? Do you guys try to raise funds for anything? I mean, because there's a whole bunch of people that are going to hear about this and they're going to want to look you up. Where should they look you up and are you actively working on any project that people might be able to help you with? So we do, or we did recently as of this year, create the Instagram account. I guess that would be the best way to getting contact. It's called HH.H. Dot out of office.

That's cute. That's very cute. But do you ever look to raise funds and things like that for any of your adventures? Yeah, I mean, before the same. Everest trip knowing that how much it would cost that was one of the main things we tried to do in our preparation phase to minimize our own costs and see if we could do do some sponsoring yeah cool well hopefully you'll have some people interested in it also i mean we are i think our stand is that we are always seeking new adventures right so happy to connect with any

one who would also have an idea or project to be part of. Interesting. A new adventure for us. Yeah, a new adventure. Well, thank you guys so much for being here. What a cool experience it was to hear, you know, all of this stuff through your eyes and how special it is that you guys are doing all of this as a couple. Thanks so much for being on the show.

Thank you for inviting us. It's very nice to talk to you and get to, yeah, have this moment. Awesome. Yes, thank you. Hi, this is Hanne Hittedal. Dalen. And I am Hoka. Hittedalern. And this podcast makes sense. That's it for today. To support the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, be sure to subscribe, like and share, as well as follow the Make Sense substack for free daily quotes, live streams, and blogs. And remember, learning without

action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learn something today, give it away. That's the only way it's going to stay. you next time. Makes sense. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.