Mantra with Jemma Sbeg - I Honor My Boundaries

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

This week's mantra is I Honor My Boundaries. Setting and honoring boundaries is an act of self-respect and care, allowing you to protect your energy and prioritize what truly matters. In this episode ...of Mantra, we explore how to identify your needs, communicate them clearly, and hold space for yourself without guilt. Honoring your boundaries isn’t about shutting others out—it’s about creating healthy relationships and showing up as your best self. This Mantra will empower you to stand firm in your worth, trust your instincts, and cultivate balance in your life. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to OpenMind+ on Apple Podcasts. For more from OpenMind, follow us on Instagram @openmindstudios. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This is Open Mind. Welcome to a brand new week. Here is your mantra. I honor my boundaries. I'm your host, Gemma Spegg, and I'm here to guide you toward a more centered and fulfilling life. Each week I'll share personal stories and insights that are focused on a specific mantra,
Starting point is 00:00:31 plus journal prompts and a weekly challenge for all of us to help put it into action. Think of mantra as your mental reset button, a way to stay centered as you juggle work, school, family and whatever else life throws at you. Each mantra is a simple, powerful phrase you can repeat to refocus your thoughts and bring a little bit of calm into your day. It's a small tool with a big impact, clearing your mind, lifting your mood,
Starting point is 00:00:58 and rooting you in the present. If you've listened to my other show, The Psychology of Your Twenties, you'll know I'm all about those little nuggets of insight that make a big impact, so whether you're looking for some extra inspiration or you're trying to ground yourself amidst the chaos, you have come to the right place. At Open Mind, we value your support. Share your thoughts on social media and remember to rate, review and follow Mant mantra to help others discover
Starting point is 00:01:25 the show. Bonus points if you post what you're listening to on your story. I'd love to see which episode is resonating with you this week. For more exclusive content, monthly bonus episodes, early access, and ad-free listening, join our Open Mind Plus community on Apple podcasts. This week, I'll catch you up on what's been going on in my life and then we'll dive into today's mantra, I honor my boundaries.
Starting point is 00:01:50 This is all about recognizing your limits, respecting your needs and creating a life that truly supports your wellbeing. Stick around, we'll be right back after this short pause. after this short pause. Hey it's Gemma and if you love mantra then you need to check out Starstruck with Ali Looper. Each Wednesday Ali sits down with celebrity guests for raw one-on-one astrology readings, decoding their birth charts and revealing how the stars have shaped their biggest life moments. From career highs to relationship drama,
Starting point is 00:02:30 nothing is off limits. Starstruck is an open mind original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Starstruck wherever you listen to podcasts. search Starstruck wherever you listen to podcasts. Where's your playlist taking you? Down the highway, to the mountains, or just into daydream mode while you're stuck in traffic? With over 4,000 hotels worldwide, Best Western is there to help you make the most
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Starting point is 00:03:40 Buy the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra now at Samsung.com. Welcome back. We're going to get into this week's mantra in just a few, but before we do, it's time for my highs, lows, and who knows, my favorite part of the week. I've got a who knows for you guys today. It's a movie that I watched last night with Tom, and it really relates to this episode. It's the movie One Day with Anne Hathaway. I think they also made it into a mini series maybe last year.
Starting point is 00:04:14 Firstly, absolutely gut-wrenching, soul-destroying, tears were shed. But honestly, it has such a beautiful depiction of boundaries in one of the scenes where, I'm not really spoiling anything, but the two main characters go out for dinner and one of them is behaving really, really badly. And if you've watched this movie, you know what scene I'm referring to. And the other character just puts up this boundary and it's just so assertive and amazing. I was watching it thinking about the fact that come today,
Starting point is 00:04:49 I would be recording this episode and it was just such a fantastic depiction. I think actually the whole relationship is such a good depiction of boundaries. If you want a movie to watch tonight that is going to make you feel, I think every single human emotion, anger, joy, happiness, sadness, grief, whatever it is. One day is the movie for you. And it was like peak Anne Hathaway. I guess she's still at her peak actually. So it was just Anne Hathaway and it was amazing. Okay, movie recommendations aside, let's get into it. It's time for this week's mantra, I honor my boundaries. There is a lot of discussion about the importance of boundaries in today's kind of life and today's
Starting point is 00:05:38 media world, online, in our personal relationships. It's something that most certainly has really become an important part of relationship discussions and an important part of our psychobabble. With that being said, I think sometimes people get them wrong. Of course they do, but sometimes people get the meaning of a boundary wrong and they think it means something that it doesn't. Here is my clearest definition of boundaries. Boundaries are guidelines for how you want to be treated.
Starting point is 00:06:14 And boundaries are actually a sign of love and deep respect for another person. They're not a demand. They are most certainly not controlling. They are a request for your benefit that someone can choose to follow or not follow. That's their prerogative, but which you are asking for yourself. And you're saying to this person, this is how I want to be loved. This is how I want to be treated. And I care enough about this relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship, a friendship, a relationship with a family member, even a coworker.
Starting point is 00:06:49 You're saying, I want this to work. I care about this enough. I need to give you some rules and some information to treat me better, to love me better, so that this can work. I do see a lot of confusion sometimes that boundaries have gone too far. Boundaries are just people
Starting point is 00:07:05 who are being dramatic. Absolutely not. It's not dramatic to say this current behavior or situation is causing me friction, is causing us friction, and I don't want that in our relationship anymore because I care about you. Here are the three steps in my mind to setting a boundary. The first is to evaluate, the second is to communicate, the third is to honor. A boundary is not a boundary if you aren't clear about it or you don't articulate it
Starting point is 00:07:37 because you're not giving the other person the opportunity to comply and respect what they don't know exists. And it's also not a boundary if there is not a consequence. Some people really struggle with the consequent part of it, because it's one thing to say, I don't want to be treated this way. It's another thing to enforce that principle, but it's what gives your words credibility, and it's also what teaches people what's not okay.
Starting point is 00:08:03 People need their actions to have outcomes to learn from them. It's a pretty basic principle in psychology. All you're doing is helping them learn and teaching them. I understand as well there's quite a great deal of guilt that comes with enforcing a boundary. We're going to talk about that just in a second. But moving back to that first component of our equation for a boundary, evaluate, communicate, honor,
Starting point is 00:08:30 people often ask me, when do I know a boundary needs to be set? I think you feel it in your body before your mind understands it. The best way to notice if a boundary needs to be set is the feeling of discomfort, is the feeling of discomfort, is the feeling of knowing something isn't right, knowing that you don't feel okay in this situation,
Starting point is 00:08:51 knowing that you are uncomfortable. Emotions and reactions are often felt in the body before they are processed in the mind. Our mind has so much information to filter through every single second, but our body is where we feel emotions and feelings and instincts more automatically. So if you feel uncomfortable with a weird coworker or having certain discussions with a family member or how your boyfriend has treated you, that's where a boundary needs to be put in place. So once you have identified what the boundary is, you next have to tell someone.
Starting point is 00:09:28 The easiest way to tell someone is immediately after they have performed the behavior. Of course, actually any time is the best time to tell someone your boundary. I'm going to take back what I just said, but the second best time is right after something has happened because you were able to say, hey, look, this is the behavior, and I'm going to tell you how I'm feeling right now, and the distance between the action and the consequence, and therefore, the outcome is smaller and there's more learning that can take place.
Starting point is 00:09:57 It also prevents the, oh, give me an example of when that happened. Tell me a time when you felt uncomfortable that can sometimes happen when you set a boundary in hindsight. Setting a boundary in the moment, it takes so much courage, but I think it has a much better outcome. Let's talk about enforcing the boundary.
Starting point is 00:10:15 Enforcing a boundary looks different, but essentially it needs to involve a consequence. Something is taken away or something unpleasant happens as a result. Perhaps you stop doing favors for that person. You stop inviting them to things, to events, to places. You stop giving them access to you. You stop talking to them. You stop engaging with them.
Starting point is 00:10:42 You unfollow them on social media. You stop replying to messages. Something of the sort needs to occur. Now, I spoke before about the guilt that surrounds this. Let me say, guilt is probably the first emotion you're going to feel in response to honoring your boundaries. Because for many of us, we have been raised as good, well-behaved children.
Starting point is 00:11:06 The fact is, is that up until the mid 2000s, really what a lot of people wanted was for their children to be obedient and to have good manners and to be inoffensive. And that was sometimes more important than a child having agency. What that meant was that we never really did get the skills to stand up for ourselves because standing up for ourselves was seen as aggressive or arrogant. And so there definitely is an innate people pleasing instinct in every single one of us. And it comes down to, I will be more likeable if I let people walk all over me. I will be more likeable if I don't kick up a fuss. The thing is, you might be more likeable, you're also going to be less happy.
Starting point is 00:11:49 Consistently disregarding your own boundaries can have serious long-term effects on our mental and emotional health. It can lead to chronic stress, burnout in the workplace, anxiety, depression, even physical health issues. When we repeatedly say yes to things that drain us, when we don't know our limits or people overstep our limits, we reinforce a pattern of self-neglect that can really erode our sense of self-worth and autonomy. There's two studies I actually always quote when I'm trying to convince people that boundaries are absolutely necessary, not just for you, but for the relationship as well.
Starting point is 00:12:29 The first is a study from 2021, and it showed that consistently ignoring personal boundaries led to heightened anxiety and depressive symptoms within participants. The second study from 2020 looked at the effect of loose or lack of boundaries on relationship success between couples and friendships. Let me just say, a lack of boundaries and positive relationships were not positively correlated. In fact, not having boundaries actually meant that more resentment took place, more frustration, a lot of individuals felt that they were taken advantage of, and actually in a couple of
Starting point is 00:13:11 cases a real power imbalance developed over time. The relationships without boundaries were also more likely to fail. So no one is being helped. I want to remind you, someone who loves you and wants you in their life will have no issue correcting their behavior. Someone who just wants to do what they want because that's truly what it is. It's arrogance and it's stubbornness. They are going to make you feel like you're the problem.
Starting point is 00:13:38 You're not. They may also make you feel like you are too sensitive, too dramatic as if their way of seeing things is the only acceptable way. But if it matters to you, I want to say this loud and clear, it should really matter to them. I can't imagine my boyfriend or my friends or a family member saying to me, this makes me feel terrible. Please stop doing it.
Starting point is 00:14:02 And still doing it. And not caring that every time I do they suffer. Literally watching them suffer. Consider how someone who claims to love you or respect you could do that. This topic definitely has a lot of depth, it has a lot of nuance and this mantra really does invite us to explore not just the boundaries we set, but the reasons behind them and the impact that they have on their lives.
Starting point is 00:14:29 Coming up, we are going to get personal and I wanna dive even deeper into this topic. I'm going to talk about how learning to honor my boundaries has been a journey for me. I'll share some stories about times where I've struggled to set clear limits and also my aha moments when I really didn't
Starting point is 00:14:45 understand their importance and significance. So stay tuned, we'll be right back after this brief pause. McDonald's new cheesy jalapeno and bacon quarter pounder with 100 Canadian beef is here. So if you crave beefy burgers with a pretty peppery punch and pickled jalapeno peppers pile in the perfect bunch and if you plead please if a cheesy taste came in threes with cheesy jalapeno pepper sauce poured with ease and if smoky strips of bacon make burgers better you'll love our cheesy jalapeno and bacon quarter pounder. Get this beefy bold bacony melty mouthful only at McDonald's for a limited time. any melty mouthful only at McDonald's for a limited time.
Starting point is 00:15:32 Hey it's Gemma and if you love mantra where we explore weekly wisdom and self-discovery then you have to check out Starstruck with Ali Luber. Just like we explore mantras to guide your week astrologer Ali Luber reveals the deeper astrological forces shaping our careers, relationships and personal growth, giving you cosmic insights you can apply to your own life. Every Wednesday she sits down with celebrity guests for raw in-studio astrology readings that uncover the fated twists, planetary influences and life-changing moments written in the stars. From career highs to relationship drama, nothing is off limits. Expect deep dives, jaw-dropping revelations and astrological insights you won't hear anywhere else. So whether you're an astrology newbie or a chart-reading pro, Starstruck is your all
Starting point is 00:16:22 access pass to the astrological side of fame. Starstruck is an open mind original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Starstruck wherever you listen to podcasts. On April 11th, the amateur arrives in IMAX. I want to find and kill the people who murdered my wife. Critics rave. The amateur is a tense, unpredictable ride. You're just not a killer, Charlie. Train me. That constantly finds new and inventive ways to up the stakes.
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Starting point is 00:17:15 and share some of my own insights and reflections about this phrase. I talk a big game sometimes, especially in this episode, but I've always struggled with boundaries mainly because for a long time I thought they'd be a barrier to letting someone love me. Like if I made it more difficult or harder for them, they'd back out. And I confused compatibility with being passive. Maybe if I made myself more likeable to everyone by letting them walk all over me, it would be easier for me to find someone I was compatible with. It would be easier to find love. It is not a coincidence that the times in my life I had had the most friends was when
Starting point is 00:18:07 I had the fewest boundaries. Coincidentally, these were also the times that I was the saddest, the most anxious, and in a way quite lonely because I had all these people around me, but I didn't have connection and there was a definite intimacy and respect that was missing. What was even worse, I think, was that I would complain to my really amazing great friends, my ride or die friends being like, oh my God, this person treats me terribly. This person is doing this again and again and again.
Starting point is 00:18:42 And each time I would end the conversation with them, with both of us agreeing, okay, you're totally right. I have to do something. I have to make it known that this is not okay. And guess what? I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it because I was so preoccupied with hurting someone else's feelings or upsetting them, or God forbid them not liking me,
Starting point is 00:19:04 that I was happy to make all of this happen at my own expense. And so yeah, the cycle continued. I tolerated behavior that made me feel uncomfortable and terrible. I complained about it to my real friends, wishing for something to change, and I never set a boundary. You know, I do think that some of those relationships could have been salvaged, they could have been saved.
Starting point is 00:19:27 Instead, they fizzled and I let them fizzle by ignoring texts and calls, which was a coward move on my behalf. I should have said something, but at the time, I really just didn't think that I could. I couldn't deal with the possibility of them not liking me. Nowadays, if it's not obvious, the story is very different and it's actually because of what I learned from a crucial moment with one of my sisters actually,
Starting point is 00:19:53 and she set a boundary with me, which I'm really not afraid to admit. It was actually about something we'd never really talked about. She'd never really articulated it. It was like a behavior that we just always had done as a family from when we were kids to like when we were adults. And we were kind of like, yeah, everyone's okay with this, right? Not to tell her story and not to go into detail, but at some point she was like, actually,
Starting point is 00:20:19 I'm not okay with that. Please don't do that. It was kind of a shock, but it was also really easy to just not do it anymore, and to just acknowledge what she needed and to do it. It caused very little stress, and it was very easy to adapt to, and our relationship was not injured, it grew. It made me realize,
Starting point is 00:20:42 wow, maybe I can do this. A big boundary we have been setting in our family recently, and I'm sure this has been a common one, is that we don't want to discuss politics within our family. I think that's something that has become very, very common. We've realized as a family that a lot of us think very, very differently and discussing it is not a way to make those relationships conducive at Christmas, at holidays, at birthdays. And as much as there are times when I want to bring it up, and when I want to talk about
Starting point is 00:21:17 it and I want to maybe get angry, I also realize that the same way I've set a boundary with these other people of like, please don't talk against my beliefs, please don't make me feel uncomfortable. I owe these other people the same thing. Perhaps people would disagree, you should talk about it with your family. I think we've tried and we failed. This is a guidebook.
Starting point is 00:21:40 This was the guidebook we have made for allowing our family to continue to have some peace and to have a connection they need. I also want to remind you, you can also set micro boundaries that don't feel as significant. These micro boundaries might sound like, hey, I don't like it when you talk to me that way, or next time, can you just ask me first? Another micro boundary that I love is,
Starting point is 00:22:05 I don't think I have the energy for this right now, but I'll definitely talk to you when I do. Even muting your phone, putting it on do not disturb, my friends, that is a micro boundary. Anything that protects your piece and involves asserting space for yourself is a boundary. Now, if I was having a conversation with myself five years ago with 20-year-old Gemma,
Starting point is 00:22:30 I really would have loved to tell her. At that time, she was so passive and she really just let people walk all over her. I would have told her this boundary thing everyone is talking about. This will make your relationships better. This will make the relationship better. This will make the relationship you have with yourself so much better. Boundaries, they aren't aggressive. They're actually quite gentle. They're a lot less quote unquote violent than having to end a relationship and sever a connection. They're actually preventative. Also, you deserve to be treated how you would like to be treated.
Starting point is 00:23:07 Being uncomfortable continuously in a relationship is not normal. Now, I think if I'd known this earlier, my life maybe would have been easier and happier, but I'm glad that at least I know it now because I am still quite young and I'm glad that we can be having this conversation, you and I, so that we can all be learning from some of the experiences that we have as a collective. Nowadays, the big boundary that I need to set is social media boundaries, not replying to every message that I get, not allowing people access to me 24-7, letting myself delay replying to every message that I get, not allowing people access to me 24-7,
Starting point is 00:23:45 letting myself delay replying to messages, letting myself log off. I know I talked about it in a recent episode how me and Tom and two of our best friends went to Tasmania for a little while and didn't go online for like two to three days. That was incredible. That was such a beautiful feeling.
Starting point is 00:24:04 So setting social media boundaries with myself is definitely an essential one. Sharing these experiences definitely reminds me how deeply honoring our boundaries, even if they're micro boundaries, can transform our relationships and sense of self. To deepen this reflection even further, I'd like to share my deep thought of the day.
Starting point is 00:24:27 This one comes from an author called Rachel Wolchin. Givers need to set limits because takers rarely do. How powerful is that? It's powerful because it's true. There are people out there who will take and take and take, and who I think are able to identify the people who will not stop them, who want to make them happy. Call these people whatever you want,
Starting point is 00:24:54 manipulative, narcissists, I'll just call them takers. They don't have the same limits that we do, they don't have the same empathy as we do to notice someone's discomfort and let that impact their decisions. Those are the people you need to be the most firm with. Those are the people you need to say, absolutely not. You can either have me in your life or not, but if you're going to have me in your life and that is the decision that's up to you, this is how we're going to go about it. You are, perhaps if you relate to this,
Starting point is 00:25:26 such a generous person, you already give so much voluntarily. They don't need anything more from you. You need to be able to save that for yourself. Your time, your energy, your self-worth, your self-esteem, your compassion, you need something left over for you. Now, I'd like us to take a few moments to pause and really sit with this mantra.
Starting point is 00:25:51 In just a moment, you'll hear a music track, a custom music track actually, to help create a space for you to absorb today's insights and consider how you might bring this mantra into your week and definitely beyond. If this practice isn't your style, remember you can always skip forward around 30 seconds and join us afterwards. But as you settle in, keep our mantra in mind. I honor my boundaries. Let it guide your thoughts as the music plays and give yourself a moment to reflect and connect with what this mantra means to you. Beautiful. Up next, we're going to explore how to put all these reflections into meaningful action
Starting point is 00:27:05 so you can start honouring your boundaries in everyday life. I'll share some journal prompts and of course our weekly challenge, so please stick around for more after this short break. you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca.
Starting point is 00:27:33 This episode is brought to you by FX's Dying for Sex on Disney+. Based on the podcast of the same name, Dying for Sex tells the story of Molly, who is diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. Determined to feel everything she can before she can't feel anything, she decides to leave her unhappy marriage to explore her sexuality with some encouragement from her best friend
Starting point is 00:27:55 Nikki. FX's Dying for Sex, streaming April 4th, only on Disney+. Sign up now at DisneyPlus.com. Are you obsessed with cults? Then oh goody do I have a podcast recommendation for you. It's called Sounds Like a Cult, and it's a show about the modern day cults we all follow. Think less Jonestown and the Mansons and more Disney adults, church camp, momfluencers, or people who are just obsessed with their Stanley Cup.
Starting point is 00:28:23 I'm Amanda Montell, sounds like a cults host, and every week I choose a different fanatical fringe group from the cultural zeitgeist and analyze it with the help of expert guests, listener Collins, and fascinating stories to figure out if the group of the week is a live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out level cult. If you're new to the show,
Starting point is 00:28:41 I recommend starting out with one of my favorite episodes, like the one on the cult of purityurity Rings featuring Kelsey from Normal Gossip. We also just did an episode on the Cult of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. Discussions get very juicy on Sounds Like a Cult. The show is available on all major podcast platforms and new episodes come out every Tuesday. For more, find the show on Instagram at Sounds Like a CultPod. Gretchen Kerr Welcome back.
Starting point is 00:29:04 Now let's talk about how we can bring this week's mantra into your daily routine in a practical, meaningful way, starting with some journal prompts. Now remember, if you don't have your journal handy, that is okay if you're at the gym, if you're at the grocery store, if you are driving. Just simply think about your answers, reflect on these prompts, whatever you might be up to.
Starting point is 00:29:25 Alright, here are your prompts to help deepen your understanding and connect more fully with this week's mantra, I honor my boundaries. First, when was the last time you felt guilty for setting a boundary? And why do you think you felt that way? Next, in what area of your life, relationships, work, family, do you struggle most to set and maintain boundaries? Why do you think that is? And finally, what new boundary do you know deep down you need to set and what's stopping you from setting it?
Starting point is 00:30:08 Every week, you know, I also share a challenge inspired by our mantra to help you take what we discuss to the next level and turn it into real actionable steps in your life. One of my favorite, I think the favorite thing about this show is hearing from you all and hearing how it's going. If this resonates, if the challenge worked, or even if it didn't, reach out to me at Martra Open Mind. You guys know each month I respond to your questions and comments in a special bonus episode that's available exclusively on Open Mind Plus.
Starting point is 00:30:40 So please send your DMs, send your questions questions even if it's not about this episode. This week's challenge, your challenge is to reflect on your current commitments and relationships. Then I want you to identify one area where your boundaries are often overlooked. Throughout the week, actively practice clearly communicating and enforcing that boundary and notice how that shifts and impacts your wellbeing.
Starting point is 00:31:09 And again, reach out to Mantra Open Mind to share how this challenge is going for you. I'd love to hear from you. Okay, before we go, I want to share a few final thoughts about this mantra. I honor my boundaries. The Final Thoughts thoughts about this mantra, I honor my boundaries. The final thoughts I want to share is actually a bit of a reiteration of what I've already said. Boundaries are preventative, they are gentle, they are a sign of kindness, love and respect. Forget everything you've heard about boundaries and how they're villainized in the news.
Starting point is 00:31:46 Actually, they are critical to relationship success. The studies will tell you that. Personal experience will tell you that. If you ever feel guilty for setting a boundary, remember someone who loves you and cares about you would not make you feel that way. Every boundary we uphold, micro, macro, big, small, it is very courageous. It is an act of courage, especially when we've been taught not to stand up for ourselves. And I think at its core, the concept of honoring your
Starting point is 00:32:15 boundaries is really about reclaiming your power. And it's really about protecting your energy and your peace because they are finite resources and you should be devoting them to you and you first. It's not about creating distance, it's not about cutting people off, it's about deepening self-respect and building more authentic, loving connections. Thank you for joining Mantra, an exclusive Open Mind original powered by Pave Studios. At Open Mind, we by PAVE Studios. At Open Mind, we value your support, so share your thoughts on social media and remember
Starting point is 00:32:49 to rate, review and follow Mantra to help others discover the show. For ad-free listening and early access to Mantra with me, Gemma Spegg, we invite you to subscribe to Open Mind Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'll share another insightful and introspective mantra with you next Monday. Until then, keep showing up for yourself and your journey. I'm Gemma Speck, see you next week. Mantra is hosted by me, Gemma Speck,
Starting point is 00:33:18 and is an Open Mind original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Mantra team, Max Cutler, Kristen Acevedo, Ron Shapiro, Stacey Warren Kerr, Sarah Camp, and Paul Leberskin. Thank you for listening. Ever wonder what the stars have to say about your favorite celebrities and yourself? Ali Lubar is breaking it all down on her brand new show Starstruck.
Starting point is 00:33:47 New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Starstruck wherever you listen to podcasts.

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