Mark Bell's Power Project - Christianity, The Good And The Questionable - Ben Alderman MBPP Ep. 912

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

In this Podcast Episode, Ben Alderman answers questions about his faith and Christianity from Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza Follow Ben on IG: https://www.instagram.com/ironmile_ben/   New Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://hostagetape.com/powerproject Free shipping and free bedside tin!   ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM   ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject to save 15% off Vivo Barefoot shoes!   ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements!   ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off!   ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order!   ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori!   ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep!   ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off!   ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en    Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz   #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

A group that obviously has a lot of dislike for Christianity are gay people. How do you handle that as a Christian? That's a good question. Why, if you grow up in a different country, that's like looked down upon because they're not the same religion as me and they don't believe in the same God as me. Is there a God in my opinion? Yes. Now, is it the God of the Bible?

Homosexuality isn't one of God's top ten. I can give you a thousand ways to go to heaven, but people will be ticked if I give them only a thousand. 72 virgin wives when they go to heaven. Well, why is that silly? But ours, nope, ours is the one. Vin Diesel with you guys today. Talking about God and family.

How do you have such a nice smile? Have you been working on this for years or what are you doing? My smile? Yeah. I mean, I did Invisalign a little while ago. Oh, did you? Oh, really? Yeah. been working on this for years or what are you doing my smile yeah i mean i did invisalign a little while ago oh really yeah um and i uh i still have one weird tooth down the bottom see it like a little snaggle tooth thing yep and then i have an overbite but it doesn't matter

you got big teeth so i smile you see my teeth the uh the invisalign you have to still use it and keep you have to wear it forever, right? Let me actually back up because I don't want to give Invisalign credit. I did SmileDirect. And so their teeth aligners, they're not the same. So Invisalign, I guess, kind of corrects the height as well as in your bite. So you can straighten your teeth with aligners. Did you have spaces before?

Nope. Just kind of some overlap. Yeah. Some overlap. Shows you what a difference it made. We don't care. I never noticed. Okay. You were just messing with me. Now I gave you the whole rundown. You always had a overlap. Yeah. Some overlap. Shows you what a difference it made. We don't care. I never noticed. Okay. You were just messing with me. Now I gave you the whole rundown.

No, you always had a nice smile. Oh, okay. I've always thought you were handsome. Okay. Thank you. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe that's why I hung out. Just because I was handsome. You never know. Yeah. I always thought you were jacked.

What's been going on? What's been going on with you? Oh, man. I got a lot of stuff going on. I got a day planner for the first time. Like a little book that you write stuff down yeah i didn't bring it today yeah what's on the agenda today it keeps me organized but that's what i said you know you texted me and he said hey can you jump on the podcast and i was like yeah let me check my day planner wasn't with me again i was like why the fuck's he being so serious and responsible oh yeah i was like what is this about he's like acting like an adult did you guys ever get day planners in school? I remember every single year they'd give you a little day planner.

I had one many years ago and I, for some reason, never used it. My wife, it's like a standing joke at my house and I have probably 12 planners and I've never filled out a single one. And then now, I was telling Andrew just before we started

the podcast, I've got a lot going on. And, I mean, I can't keep it straight. Like I'm going to end up not going to places. Yeah, and so I don't have enough resources yet to pay somebody to go and be there for me. So it's like I've got to make sure I'm where I need to be. And so I write everything down. You need a company calendar. Yeah, company.

I have Iron Mile, Overcome Project. I do stuff at the church, which I'm sure we'll talk about. And just my kids. There's a lot going on for me right now. How many kids do you have, by the way? Four. Yeah, okay. Four kids.

How many dogs? Two. Okay, four kids, two dogs. Yeah. I have like two outdoor cats. They don't count because they just kill mice. Yeah. I have four goats and one cow.

Oh, you got a cow? Yeah. I drank bone broth from my previous cow this morning that I made. Damn. What do you mean you drank bone broth from your cow? Oh, we killed a cow, yeah. We killed and butchered a cow, my previous cow. I guess it's still mine.

Right. Just in the freezer. Wow, dude. What's a cow entail? It doesn't entail a lot, right? It just eats itself? Like you don't have to entail a lot, right? It just eats itself? Like you don't have to feed it and stuff, right? It eats for itself. It doesn't eat itself.

Cannibalizes itself. It likes meat. It's a meat eater. It likes good steak just like we do. No, it just, we have a little bit of land and so it manages the grass. So it works. I'm going to pay a landscaper i can

actually just kill my landscaper when it's done you're right you know i mean and then eat it it's perfect wow yeah sounds morbid right yeah but it's actually my cow yeah so you saw a show that we had uh a little while back and um you send a text and you're really upset and you said you guys are a bunch of heathens over there. I'm going to come on the show. I'm going to heal everybody. I started praying a long time ago for you guys. Yeah.

I mean, I think that we've had enough conversations in the past to know where we both stand. And I know Nsema well enough to know where he stands and where I stand. And the crossover and the symmetry, the symmetry? The crossover symmetry? That's a thing, you know, for the shoulders. The crossover and the synergy that we have in certain areas.

But I also see that there are differences in the way that I've went and I could tell what you guys articulating your differences in the way you've kind of taken your backgrounds. And I was like, man, this is a really interesting conversation. And that was my feedback was, I think that was a good conversation.

It was like one of the most valuable ones you guys have had in a long time, to be fair, because the title was one of the few that I listened to in a while. You know, I get one in about every three weeks. So as far as podcasts, you guys create really fast. And like I said, my schedule is. And it's okay to say, and it's fair. We talk about a lot of bullshit a lot of nonsense on here we admit it we're okay with that yeah well not a lot of times this was

something of the actual value yeah there was a lot of value in my estimation right i was like no this is good but then i saw there was something right after it you guys post something about doing landmines instead of cleans and i was like i was like man that's good i was like that's good too i just i get something from sentences. Sometimes sentences change my life. You know what I mean? I don't have to listen to the whole show. And I listened to that title, Well Done, Andrew. It was a team effort, but yeah.

And I was like, dude, I've been saying that for years. I got people in my gym and they don't lift, like they don't train their body parts enough. Keep some athleticism. Yeah, exactly. But then sometimes people just do cleans over and over and over again with the same muscles. And I'm like, Hey, you know, you'd probably just do some landmine rows, do some strict pull-ups, maybe some chin-ups, even mixing some ring rows for crying out loud and get stronger. Where are a lot of the people at,

uh, that you came into CrossFit with? Like, where are they at? Do you think, think of some of the people you came in with, where do you think they're at, like, health-wise? Are they in a better spot? Are they in a worse spot? You mean, like, guys who, when I started, they were starting as well? Yeah. Well, I can kind of think of, like, the competitors

that I dealt with, you know, and I competed against. And those guys are doing pretty good, you know, the smart ones. And then some of them, we all have some mileage on us, you know. And I always thought from the methodology and what I was taught when I first started was that CrossFit was going to be something that was a little different. It was going to be sustainable. It was going to be something that constantly build you up and, and, and didn't break you. But the reality is we turned it into a sport. And for those of us, when we turn it into a sport, we kind of, I don't want to say we threw the methodology out because we didn't, there's a

lot of things that apply from the, the, the methodology and how you would train people. But we started to break our bodies down. You know what I mean? I had shoulder surgery. You know, I had six anchors put in my right shoulder trying to do kettlebell snatches fast. Like, is a kettlebell snatch a bad movement? No. No, it's a great movement. In fact, I wish I could still do them.

I actually just get a little nervous, you know, because as the weight changes position from the front of your body and then flings over onto the back of your wrist, there's that little tug. And I'm like, are those anchors really secure? Are they really ready? I really want to test them, yeah. Yeah, and I'm like are those anchors really secure are those are they really ready i really want to test them yeah and i'm like i just like having both hands on the barbell when i snatch now because i don't have any mobility issues and then i get the support

of the opposite hand so there's that i mean there's guys like you know i mean fronings you know came in and i'm not on on the level but I'm just saying guys who came in like that. He's had issues with his health and, you know, his body. But he's sustained way better than a lot of people. And he has probably the health and fitness that most people would aspire to ever have. Four-time champion. I mean, he went as far as you can go, as hard as you can go. Yeah. He's still doing some competitions.

Yeah. And he's still, yeah. Yeah. And then like Jason, you know, Jason Kalipa, he's been on this show a bunch of times. We're all friends with him. You know jason's doing pretty good you know he shut it down early he's jiu-jitsu now yep he changed his focus and and um you know but i think that we're all doing pretty good but we have some mileage on us that's all i'd say and then people they always tell me that like aren't you kind of sad that you did all that

i'm like no they're like why not i'm I'm like, well, you have neck pain. I have neck pain. That's another one to have. So bone spurs, those are fun. But you also fought and stuff too, right? You've done a lot of things with your body. Oh, you fought? Yeah.

I did not know that. I try not to tell him to see me back because he's like, hey, do you want to go roll for a few minutes? Like, not really. You're like, oh, my time's up here today. Look at my day planner. Yeah. I'll keep day planner. Yeah.

I'll keep praying for you guys. Yeah. So I did mixed martial arts for, that's how I got into CrossFit actually. So I was doing bodybuilding and I thought that was really cool. And that was the way that you express your fitness post high school or collegiate sports. It's like, just get in the gym, get jacked. That's what we did. I didn't have a powerlifting gym.

I didn't have any kind of background like that. And so it just started getting bigger. But then I thought, what's this stuff we're seeing on TV? It was the UFC. This is cool. And so I just found a gym, started going. Uriah Faber taught me a bunch of stuff. And I love grappling.

I love throwing punches. I love throwing punches. I love taking punches. But that's also not sustainable. This makes a lot of sense. You look like you fight. Like you have that look. You know what I mean? I can't explain it.

There's something in the – do you guys get what I'm saying? Or am I tripping? This is an audio show, right? They don't see you. It's on YouTube. Oh, okay. All right. All right.

Just making sure. They can see you. Yeah. You got cauliflower here? 4K?'s 4k okay no no cauliflower here i actually wanted it like rubbing your head on isn't that bad you know because people would say that sometimes they're like oh you look like you fight and then look at my you know that's what you did for a long time i feel like everybody has cauliflower here you know what what I mean? They all did what I did. And they just went and got cauliflower ear and said, all right, cool. It's like getting a black belt.

Like what's scarier? Somebody tells you you have a black belt or somebody has cauliflower ear? Cauliflower ear. Right. You know what I mean? So that's what I wanted. But I don't have my black belt either. So I always did no gi.

So I actually went to the gym in Hawaii in January. First time I grappled in about four years. And it was a small group. There was a guy who is the hand-to-hand combat instructor for a local law enforcement agency. He was there. He trains all the time. A Navy SEAL who trains quite a bit, super fit guy. Just because you're a Navy SEAL doesn't mean you're great at grappling.

It just means you're ready to fight, I guess. And then another guy who spent about two years doing it and we went in there and rolled for about an hour and a half I didn't get tapped once I put a couple people

in a few bad positions couldn't finish anybody just like what happens here and you know but felt pretty good couldn't remember enough shit to like get anybody

in or anything but it's cool you can still hold your own it's been four years man you still remember that your body knows what to do it's sizing me up right now really uncomfortable we're not even in the same weight class

I don't know why I'm so dense you're like 220, 230 right now yo you are dense Jesus Christ I told you you guys know what it's like he's all legs and ass having somebody like N seem to tell you that you're dense

his eyes got really big too he gets excited by people with thick wrists too so maybe mine are small no I don't know what they are they're whatever

so yeah what did you learn from CrossFit that you're able to like are you still able to do I'd imagine like you didn't completely

abandon all the CrossFit stuff you probably still utilize some of the methods right yeah when it you CrossFit? Yeah. Just what's like training, like training yourself. I mean, you know, you know, for the last half of, of 2022, I spent most of my time weightlifting, uh, powerlifting, bodybuilding, and just trying to get stronger because my neck issue was really severe. Actually, December of 2021, I did a competition with my son, who was 14 at the time, and it was an RX competition, which was really cool for him to be able to step up

and me to be able to be in shape enough for us to do something together. It was just a local competition. The next week, I was doing some wall balls in just that position for my neck. All of a sudden, it flared up, and I couldn't sleep well for about six weeks. When I say six weeks, I literally mean six weeks of very little sleep. I tried alcohol. I tried... Ambien or some shit? Not CBD, but THC type stuff from like a dispensary, like real stuff that people got for me. I tried painkillers. I tried stuff for somebody who I know had a tumor removed in their brain.

And they gave me some of it. I couldn't sleep. It was like – it was really bad. Mainly the pain. It was the pain. And the only thing that helped was actually sleeping on the – the pain radiated down to my right shoulder. And I would sleep on that shoulder because the pain on that shoulder was predictable. And so that was really unpleasant.

So once I finally got the pain to subside, I switched and I started doing a lot of powerlifting, a lot of strength training because I could control those positions, you know, a lot more than in CrossFit where you're trying to be dynamic, you're doing burpees, you're doing all these kinds of things. And that was a process. I was able to get my lifts up to new lifetime bests, and that was good. But now that the pain's kind of gone, I kind of— You squatted over 500 pounds, right?

Yeah, I squatted 565. Jesus. Yeah, in the gym. You know, it was fun. I got on video. I deadlifted 615, which for me is really good. And I don't want to talk about bench. I'll talk about it.

My goal was to get a 400-pound bench, a 500-pound back squat, 600-pound deadlift, and then be able to clean. I'm sorry, snatch 300 pounds and then clean 400 pounds. So that's a nice big picture for a barbell athlete. And I missed the bench press. I hit 395, or I went for 395, missed it. Oh, hey, this guy. I went for 395 and missed it. There you go, this guy. I went for 395 and missed it.

There you go. There's the 565. I don't know if this is legit. Nice and low. Oh, my Lord, yes. I got low but barely stand up. I dropped the bar off my back. God, you lived to see it.

I stopped and I did that. And it was for a rogue competition, and they told me that it was a no rep because I dropped it off my back. Oh, my gosh. And then I pulled the 650. You never did quite learn the form for any of these movements. was for a rogue competition and they told me that was a no rep because i dropped off my back oh my gosh and then i pulled the 650 you never did quite learn the form for any of these movements you know i'm working on it i'm working on it and that's 365 and the reason why that lift is so easy and then um that's my son spotting me right there i went to 395 and uh i just, I missed it at the, you've seen me miss lifts when I'm really high.

I missed it at the lockout, which is really weird. And I had to go back down. I ended up hitting 375. So my best, my best is 375. What's going on with your son? He's lifting like a madman.

He's a freak dog. He's a freak. Yeah. So he's 15. And, God, that looks good too. That form. Yeah. That's 185 right there. He's a freak. Yeah. So he's 15. God, that looks good too. That form. Yeah, that's 185 right there.

He's 15. And I'm having him do quite a bit of training right now. But that's just because he did – Look how bouncy his body is. He's like, yep, this is great. He did the CrossFit Open this year for 14, 15-year-olds. And he ended up finishing ninth in the world. No way.

Yeah. And so – That's awesome. And he wasn't even really training. Like I said, we've been traveling in September. We were in Hawaii. Just kind of one workout a day, if that, and then we went to Hawaii again for a couple weeks. And he just ended up doing this and doing really well. So we've been training really hard this month.

What is it you notice? Because it's interesting that there's a new generation of kids that grew up on CrossFit. And I think, I don't know if we were talking about how a lot of these young female champions are like 18, 19, 20. What do you notice from kids versus the first generation of adults that won the CrossFit Games, I guess? It's weird because for me, my son started with like way more cardio than I was ever able to build. You know what I mean? I was trying to build cardio for so long, but he's like already, you know, kids, you ask them to go get you something, they run somewhere to get it, you know, that whole phenomenon. And for whatever reason, because his body isn't filled out with

muscle, even though he's got decent muscle on him, it's not filled out. It just doesn't take up as much oxygen. So he can just keep moving, moving you know and then that you don't know any better you've never been injured so you just kind of have this reckless abandon when you go after things there's something to that you know yeah it'd be really cool too as he fills out and gets a little older like his form and technique is going to be even more flawless it will just be with like hundreds of more pounds yeah and you know the other thing is he that's how he learned how to move you know if you have a kid who learned grew up dancing you know then they'd be able to dance for a long time especially they danced through those awkward stages of their teenage years they are growing and their legs were getting longer and they're

you know whatever so mason's just moved his whole life and so since he's five years old four years old he's been doing this stuff when you were having a hard time sleeping and you were in all that pain uh how is that on your mental health was that hard on your mental health because it it sucks like when you're an athlete and you're someone that you know is used to having a certain amount of strength and a certain amount of physicality and have that taken away it really blows yeah it really does and that's that's tough i think that when you have an injury as an athlete, and this might be something that I made up

or something that we've all said, but when you get really injured, when you get really messed up and you come back, that's what makes somebody really an athlete in my mind. I know there are people out there who are athletic and who have done things and they've never been injured like my son. He's an athlete, yes,

but I think there's maybe a degree at which you get to go up when you have been injured and you come back. And so for me, I fought everything, I mean like mentally. It was really, really tough. Like am I ever going to get it back? I remember trying to do 10 push-ups and failing, and that was really brutal. I remember taking a cable press down a couple months ago this no this was uh this was january of last year okay so then i went through that whole process

and then july through december of last year as my powerlifting cycle now i'm back into crossfit but during that time um i remember doing a tricep press down with like 40 pounds on like my left arm. And that's just something we could just sit there and we just work for a burn. Like you're doing like a mini band, you know? And I went over to my right arm and I was straining to get three or four. And it was like, you know, getting on top of it and kind of not really even using the right form. And I bring people in, I'm like, dude, check this out. I had no, I was trying to break down what was really wrong. And I didn't know this before I had an MRI,. I'm like, dude, check this out. I had no – I was trying to break down what was really wrong. And I didn't know.

This was before I had an MRI, before I had anything looked at. And I'm like, oh, there's something happening here. Like it's not just pain. Like it's shutting down something on my right side. And so I just started using that as my new metric. And so I just start working at it. I'm like, oh, cool. I got seven today.

And then the next week I'd get eight. The next week I'd get nine. But, yeah, the right arm is still actually a little bit Nemo-ish. Yeah. Do you know what actually happened with the neck or what specifically is the problem? What caused it or it's just – I mean my nickname like 15 years ago was BHB and so I have a big head, right? And so my –

Big head Ben. I've been carrying this – Same shit. Yeah. I've been carrying this thing around for a long time. That's one. And I don't think that could be discounted, honestly. I've been taking punches in mixed martial arts for a long time,

and that does a lot to your neck. Grappling, you know. And when you're willing to die to try to win, you get in bad spots, and all you do is just try harder to get out of them. You're like, I'm not going to die. I'm going to win. I'm going to find a way out of this. And that's kind of the mentality I took into MMA, grappling, whatever. And I don't know if that was necessarily the right thing to do.

I could have been like, all right, I'm in a bad position. Let me just tap and then learn how to get out of this next time. You know what I mean? Just don't get back there again. And I think I would have learned a lot more from that because these are not positions, like if you get out of it once, that's great, but a better superior fighter or in a different situation, you wouldn't have gotten out of it. So why force yourself out of it? Why muscle yourself out of it? It's like breaking your thumb to get out of a pair of handcuffs.'s like you know how about just don't get in handcuffs you know and so i think there's a lot to that and then on top of that i came into crossfit with really strong shoulders and i think that was from throwing a lot of punches and just having that muscle endurance from hitting the bag

for hours and hours and hours and so handstand push-ups became something i was really good at and then people tell you're good at something what do do you do? A lot of that thing. And so I think that that kind of impact the giant head for 40 years now, 40 years. Damn, good for you. Yeah. Don't get it. Yeah. It just, the body can only take so much. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Gotcha. When you listened to the show where we were talking about religion uh what caught your attention kind of the most what were some things that uh that stood out because i think um you and i went back and forth just on just some voice notes and we're like oh i think it'd be cool to talk about on the podcast i think the cool thing about podcasting is you get to have a lot of long format so if somebody says something like i don't believe in god and there's just a period after it, sometimes people get stirred up, triggered, they get offended. But if you have an opportunity to explain yourself further, then sometimes people are like, all right, well,

people have different vantage points, different viewpoints. What were you kind of stimulated or moved by when you were listening to some of that stuff? Well, when I was listening to it, I probably, like a lot of people who are listening to your show have some sort of Christian background. We live in America, right? And so it's more normal. And I think that probably people were listening to it and going like, yeah, I agree. Because my faith has kind of done the same thing. It's kind of, it started one way and then it's now grown. I'll use air quotes for my own purposes into another expression another way of kind of going about it and there are probably some sitting there like me more like

me who are like oh man i wish i could just be there and ask a couple questions just to see what they mean by that and why and what triggered that. And so for me, when I was listening to you guys talk about your upbringings and, you know, like for you, Mark, you had like this kind of disconnect with church at one point. But there was never really a disconnect with your parents, which was really cool. That was neat. You know what I mean? It seemed like at least with the way you were talking about and what I know about you, there was never really a disconnect with mom and dad. You know what I mean? Like you guys were tight with the way you were talking about and what I know about you, there was never really a disconnect with mom and dad. You know what I mean? Like you guys were tight and you were like, this is cool.

My parents gave me this idea, this belief in myself that I could kind of do things, you know, and they were good with it. And they supported you along the way, which is great. found really valuable for them, these people you care about a lot, at what point, you know, as you moved away from it, was it just like, I wanted to know, was it something that you saw it was impractical to do anymore? Because, and then same thing for Encima, right? When I was listening to you guys talk about it, grew up in the church, you know, hopefully mom doesn't listen to this podcast. grew up in the church you know hopefully mom doesn't listen to this podcast and uh because now i kind of see things differently but when we came full circle all the way back around to the

end and there's a couple other little things in there i'll throw it i'll throw in it was like i think the world would be better if more people went to church like i should think it'd be better and yeah and so you know my wife and I were talking about it because these are the things that we talk about. We're really excited about this stuff. And, and there's one thing that I enjoy talking about more than fitness. It is, it is people's faith. It's the matters that surround God. But like America is getting really, really unfit right now. Right. Everybody's fat. You know? Blood pressure. Don't use that word.

Oh, okay. Rotund. Rotund. Okay. All right. Yeah. Now you. Yeah.

Okay. Good. Good. You know, but it's happening. And people are going like, you know what? I saw an article. And this might be a long way of kind of going about it. And the article said the cause of obesity is like not yet known.

Like it was like a scientific article. Like we don't know the cause of obesity is like not yet known like it was like it was like a scientific article like we don't know the cause of obesity it's like the elephant in the room well the elephant is saying we don't know i'm like this is really really weird to me right and and and so people are going like yeah we don't really know. And then you hear this body positivity, which I think in some ways can be okay, right? There's a level of that which you want to be able to be okay in your own skin,

regardless of what you look like, what you smell like. No, not what you smell like. But there's this whole move. And then you have these people saying, and going to the gym is really hard. So maybe we should just not go to the gym anymore. Like we don't know the cause and we see all this stuff happening and everybody is fat anyway and blood pressure and heart disease and all this stuff is on the rise.

So maybe we should just like stop doing what we know works. And it's like it kind of almost sounded like you guys did that a little bit with your faith, you know, not to try to put words in your mouth. That's why I want to come on and have the discussion, right? And this is where I get,

the bullets come back at me, right? It was like, hey, you know what? I don't know if I really believe this anymore and it's not really, and it's like, let's just kind of get rid of that. But then you're like, oh, but actually maybe

the world would be better or could be better if, you know, people started going back to church. Church and religion I think are almost like separate matters in some ways. Obviously people go to a church to praise a particular god or to reinforce their religion. Where I come up short on religion is this, is when we select like a religion, there's a God kind of selected for that religion. And there's a bunch of principles and beliefs that are within that. Keep in mind, I don't know anything about religion. I don't know a lot, just my own experiences.

And I don't know a lot about other religions. just my own experiences. And I don't know a lot about other religions, but I'm confused on why, if you grow up in a different country and you're only exposed to that religion, you know, why, like, I guess the things maybe I was told when I was young, maybe they're not even true. I don't know what's true. But that's like looked down upon because they're not the same religion as me and they don't believe in the same god as me and that always kind of confused me i never liked that that never that was like kind of i guess uh probably a pivotal thing in my departure from religion because i'm like that doesn't seem fair like there's a kid that's my age somewhere that just was brought up differently and how does he not to get to go to heaven or these various things. And I think even

within religion, there's a lot of stuff, church and like things like getting to go to heaven, living, you know, in eternity and these things, they're all really interesting things. But I think, in my opinion, most stuff is just things to try to figure out how to get yourself through every single day with like relative kind of peace and harmony. And so for me, I didn't really feel like I needed to be religious or to practice religion to be able to go through my life that way. And maybe I will come to something different as I get older. Maybe I'll have different conclusions and maybe I'll keep changing my mind. Because I change my mind on how I lift. I change my mind on how I exercise.

I change my mind on a lot of things. And I try to be more open as I continue to move in a direction that I think is forward. So that's kind of where I guess I stand on some of that. My family also just discontinued going to church, which again, going to church and practicing your religion don't have to go hand in hand, but they sort of did for me because my discipline was I went to church with my parents

and then at some age, 16 or 17, I think we stopped going to church. My dad still reads the Bible. I think he's read it like hundreds of times. He just starts over and reads it and reads it and reads it and reads it. He's been doing that forever. My mother used to do the same thing. I never got really into that discipline or that practice. And so, yeah, that's just some of my thoughts there. That's really good. That's really good and really helpful to see. Did you want to add anything in seeming to that?

Not yet. Okay. So, you know, the – and my goal was to ask questions, you know, and kind of help get clarifying ideas about where you guys were at and how you got there. So, you know, I don't want to turn into an apologist for the Christian faith where I come in and go like, hey, you guys, if you don't believe this, you have real issues, right? There are certain things I might believe that, but that's not what I wanted to do, turn it into like that. But in terms of shedding light into the kid who is your age, when you're thinking these things, when you're 12, when you're 13 years old and you're like, there's a kid in Pakistan who literally has never seen a Bible, heard the name of Jesus.

And you're telling me that kid is going to go to hell because where he was born? where he was born, you know, it's like that can be really, really hard to wrap your mind around if that's the way it's being presented to you, you know? And I think there is a lot of that in the church today. I do. Not even just when you were 12 or 13, like 40 years ago. So – Oh, you – Almost 40 years ago.

You know, I think there's a lot of kind of ethnocentric, American-centric kind of bias into the church, forgetting that it was actually written first in Greek and Hebrew, right? And these people were somewhere else. And it's like we somehow feel like we're the best versions of the church in America, you know? And it's kind of sad, you know? And it's not really, I don't think it's what the Bible teaches, you know? God always told, God says in his word that, and I'm using God and his word as kind of really definitive, but I know there are people who disagree that the God of the Bible says in his

word, the Bible, that based on the amount of the measure that you've been given, that's the measure which you'll be accountable for. Right? So a kid in Pakistan who's walking through the streets and is like, I've never seen a Bible. Like he doesn't even think that, but he just looks up and he goes, I don't think this is a mistake. I think this stuff has like been put, like maybe that's all he's accountable to really understand and grasp. And in that, that's like God saying like, look at this kid, never even read a Bible. And he knows that somebody other than himself created this whole thing. That's the faith I'm looking for.

And he brings them in. Right. And I think the Bible would support that level of faith and understanding and expressing it that way. I don't think it's that kid has never heard Jesus, so he's going to hell. And if it is that way, I would not be ready to throw the Bible out at that point. I'd be like, dang, I better go to Pakistan. So that's how much I believe God's word, right? One, it might be troubling. Yeah, one might be troubling for me, but I would rather than saying, hey, I don't want to spread the word of God. I want to spread his love and his message. I would actually say, hey, I better get on it. I'd probably better spend my time, energy, and resources going to Pakistan or,

and I have no idea about Pakistan, but I just make it up. You know what I mean? So that's, that's kind of where I, I land on that issue personally, you know, because yeah, I just, that's the way I see it. Power Project family, your normal shoes are making you weak. This is why I partnered with Vivo Barefoot Shoes because they have a wide toe box. They're flat and they're flexible. So with every single step you're taking, if you're taking a 10-minute walk outside or when you're working out in the gym, your feet are able to do what they're supposed to do in this shoe. They have tons of options for hiking, running, training in the gym, chilling and relaxing, casual shoes. If you're out on a date, you need to check them out.

And Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at vivobarefoot.com slash powerproject. And you guys will receive 15% off your order automatically. Again, vivobarefoot.com slash powerproject. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. I've also never had anything in my life where I'm like, you know, this horrible thing happened. Why'd it happen to me? So I'm not gonna believe in God anymore. I never had anything in my life where I'm like, you know, this horrible thing happened.

Why did it happen to me? So I'm not going to believe in God anymore. I never had anything like that. It's just the more stuff I've heard over the years and even some of the new ideas of that a lot of religion in some people's belief come from psychedelic experiences and things like that. A lot of this stuff is really, really interesting. And then how old the Bible is, who the Bible was written by, how old the earth is in accordance to the Bible versus how old we believe the earth actually is.

A lot of that stuff just leaves you. But again, I get it. And I think it's all part of a thing of like, well, what's your faith? Like how powerful are your beliefs? Do you only believe in things that you see? You know, we know a lot about Mars. We never landed there. We seem to know, right?

It seems like we have some pretty good information about it. But are you also willing to believe that maybe it's a little different when we actually get there? Right. And I think that that's kind of my just kind of vantage point and view on life is I don't know what things are going to look like when I get to certain places. I don't know what it's going to be. And I also don't want to fakely believe. I don't want to be like, I'm going to believe because I don't want to go to hell. Like, I don't like that. I don't think to be like, I'm going to believe because I don't want to go to hell. Like, I don't, I don't like that.

I don't think that makes any sense. So yeah, for now I'm kind of just, I'm just more like where I'm at. Yeah. And I think that it's really cool because what you just said is, you know, we know some things based on what we've seen. Like we literally just know, like the earth is not 6,000 years old, right? Is what science would tell us. It's, let's say, I don't know what it is now.

It's like 2 billion. Billions, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you remember like when I was in high school and probably when you guys were each in high school, the earth was actually not as old as it is now. Right. Right. It keeps getting older, right, according to science because they keep going like this

would take a really long time to evolve. Like we thought evolution worked a certain way, and now we're seeing it works differently. It would take even longer. So it's like, I think when I was in school, it was like in the millions. It's like 400 million years old, and you're like, it's a 400 million year old Earth. And now it's in the billions, which is exponentially way different.

And so we just keep adding time to account for what we can't explain. And then we use time, or sometimes we'll use time as why we don't believe something that's outlined in the Bible. I pointed my phone because now we can read anything on our phones, right? My mom loves that. So the earth very well could be, even according to the Bible in my mind, the way I would read it, five billion years old, right? Like, well, how would that work? Because we have creation. That's the problem most, a lot of people have when they go to Sunday school.

Like, wait, the earth was created in seven days? Like, I literally just heard it came from monkeys and it's like really, really, really old. You know, this makes no sense. Like my Mr. Whatever in my class at school and my Mrs. Whoever in my Sunday school are just not jiving right now. And one of these makes sense and one of them doesn't. Well, in the beginning, that's how the Bible actually starts, right? In the beginning, the earth was formless and void.

Now, in that time, how long was it formless and void? Those rocks or those weird things or those elements could have been sitting there for what we would call billions of years. But then when God started creation, I would say he meant a literal seven-day creation, six-day creation, excuse me. He started doing that stuff very quickly, right? But then when you test those things and see how old they are, you know, carbon dating might say that's 2 billion years old. And we're like, oh, see, the Bible is not true. And I don't necessarily think that that is a full picture of things. You know what I mean? And so I also struggle with the problem of good and evil personally, right?

I think that there's a lot of people who would point to this and not to put anybody's – put words in anybody's mouth. It wasn't something you guys spent a lot of time on in the podcast. But when I talk to people about their faith, they're just like, hey, man, there's like a lot of bad stuff that happens in the world. And I don't know if you guys would agree with that. I don't know how much of an atheist or a nihilist or whatever you guys are because at some point, you start making moral judgments. Whatever you guys are because at some point, you start making moral judgments. You kind of move out of those camps or you're at least kind of conflicted because an atheist who believes there's no God, there's no moral standards, right? It's just what we create.

If more people think this is OK, then it should be OK, right? It's based on voting or popularity system, right? But for me, there's a real problem with evil in the world. But when I look at it, I go, what in me tells me that this is evil? Why is it evil that some people sacrifice babies in certain cultures over the history of time? Like why is that – like if I'm standing by, like I can't watch that. Oh, well, you weren't raised in it. I'm like I don't think that's really it.

I don't think that's really why I think that's evil. You know what I mean? I think that we could all agree on that. And then, so with that, what's in me that makes me believe that there's actually evil? Where did that come from? And is that just some sort of self-preservation?

Is that what that is, kind of coming in me through evolution? Or is there some sort of moral code in my DNA? And I think there is. I think that's what that is. And if there's moral code in my DNA, then where did it come from? And that answers the bigger question of,

is there a God? In my opinion, yes. Now, is it the God of the Bible? Doesn't necessarily say that, right? But that intuition to be compassionate and to be wired with morals could could also come from evolution perhaps, right? I mean it doesn't have to necessarily come from like a god. Right.

Yeah, and that's what I was saying. It's like it could be some sort of like I said self-preservation but would be very interesting because there are certain lifestyles. Because evolution is all about creating and sustaining life at a higher level or at a more optimized level. I think maybe it would be a better term for evolution. Well, there are certain lifestyles that are more acceptable these days that don't create better evolution. Before we go on that, don't forget the thing you mentioned about the lifestyles. When we're thinking about the moral code, I mean, I was brought up Christian and I still, I don't look at the Bible and be like, I don't think that's wrong. And I can't even, I can't fathom like my moral code. I know a lot

of that has come from the Bible. So I can't necessarily perfectly gauge, do I act this way and do things this way because I was brought up this way or because it's intrinsic? I can't necessarily perfectly gauge, do I act this way and do things this way because I was brought up this way or because it's intrinsic? I can't honestly say because I wasn't brought up any other way. That's why I appreciate the Bible so much because when I do look at the way of my – like the way I go about things, my morals, I think they're pretty good. I also know that they're based off of that book, a lot of them, and that's done me well in life. of that book, a lot of them, and that's done me well in life. But when we're talking about intrinsic morals, when you see certain kids that maybe they don't grow up with two parents in the home and one parent isn't there, and there's a lot of lack of stability, they have certain ways that they may do things as they get older and as they get adults that wouldn't necessarily meet our

morals. They may go about doing certain things that they believe is right, but that's a big reason because of the way that they are brought up or a lack of what they had. So when I think about that, I'm like, intrinsically, do they believe that stealing that is wrong or stealing that as survival? Because the Bible tells you do not steal, but if you got to fucking eat, you know, if if you don't have money and i mean yeah you could get a job and work but if you could just steal that and get that now you're not gonna think that's wrong and morally you're absolutely not gonna think that's wrong because you gotta survive so that's where it's like i do get i think the bible is very beneficial in that way especially since i was brought up and i understand the morality within it. But those moral things, I don't know if they're as intrinsic as we think they are,

unless you have a stable environment. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, maybe one step even further. So one of the things I do is I work with at-risk youth on a regular basis. And so it's called the Overcome Project. You can actually check it out, the Overcome Project. No act, probably overcomeproject.org. But I was talking to a kid, and I said, why are you here? And he said, I stole a car. I said, okay.

So you stole a car, and you end up in a group home? Like for six months after juvenile hall for like some amount of time? He goes, well, I steal a lot of cars. Oh, okay. Yeah. I said, man, level with me. Why do you steal cars? He's like, because my life sucks.

My life sucks. He's like, I smoke weed and I steal cars and I pretend they're mine. And until the cops get me, I'm free. So he told me. And I'm like, wow. So you talk about – You're like, this kid needs a hug, not to be thrown in jail. I mean obviously he committed a crime.

Sure. Taken care of appropriately, but you get my drift. Yeah, there's consequences to your actions, but we can't leave him in those. And that's kind of what the Overcome Project is about, using the power of fitness and community to bring a message of hope and healing. That's what we do on a regular basis. And you've been doing this for a couple of years now with your wife, right? Yeah, yeah. And that's really our heart.

We spend two nights a week. We get two nights a week where we're actually not doing anything for other people at this point in our life. And so it's pretty hectic. So two nights a week we're working directly with four different group homes. So we do that and we're constantly adding more. And we're building a gym out in Woodland for youth 15 miles from here or so. Awesome. Yeah.

But the other thing is – so I understand what you're saying from that perspective, and I see it. I see exactly what you're saying, and I work with it. The effective answer, though, is there may be a reality to what you're saying. Like how much of his good is innate or his evil is innate? How much it would be a construct if he had something like the Bible or a two-parent home? How much of that would be there, what would get passed on. But what we're left with at the end of the day, regardless of where any of it came from, is what do we do with our lives, right? And I think that's a really important question. And so for me, when I'm talking to this kid,

I'm like, okay, where did this come from? I can be like, hey, it's not really your fault. You know, you didn't have two parents, you didn't have this. But instead, I have to tell him maybe a harsher reality. And it's like, the way you're living ain't working. You know, it's not working. And you need to find something that's a better moral code. You need to find something that's more useful in the long run, both in your life and then I'll add in eternity. Right? But I never go to these kids with eternity in mind first. I always have to meet them right where they're at.

And I think that – You're in a lot of danger. You're going to die. You're going to get shot at or some crazy thing is going to happen and you're going to end up in jail or dead. And that's the reality. And so now having worked with over like 200 kids at this point in the last year, a lot of them don't come back from it. They don't come back from it. That's just their life. They don't adopt a new construct.

But you know what they won't do? They're not going to show up and this is – so non-Christians don't always like me because of the way I speak just very plainly about the Bible. Yeah. Christians also don't like me sometimes because of the way I speak very plainly about the Bible and about church. I say, hey, this is – my mission is to go into the – and get these kids and use fitness and use this. And they're like, well, why don't you just bring them to church? Why don't you just bring them the Bible? Why don't you just bring them the Bible? Why don't you just, I mean, they're not going to listen.

Like, well, the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, able to pierce between the divisions of soul, their bone and marrow. Yes, that's true. Right? But that's not what Jesus did with the woman at the well. At first he said, give me some water. And then they started having a conversation about water. Like when you're thirsty in the desert, that makes total sense.

So you meet them where they're at and then you're able to offer them something that's of value. And so when we're looking at where do these constructs come from, and I don't want to sidestep the question, you know, the reality is I don't know where they would come from, but I still think that if they came from the Bible and you end up on one side, even as a rebellious response to the Bible, or you end up without parents and without this, that kid knew he needed something. And that construct, regardless of where it came from, that idea about how to see the world and how to operate in the world and to steal cars, it was helpful. But he knew it was an escape and it was short term. And so giving somebody something that's long term and beneficial is what I try to do. And I don't want to say that the Bible is pragmatism. Like it's just supremely practical and that's why I follow it because it's really not. It's not super practical to give up your Sundays. It's not super practical to get up every morning and read or pray or do these things or – it's not that.

But there is a practical level to it depending on where you're at. So I think that answers some of that question at least to some extent. You know what I mean? But it's not real clear cut. It's not real clean all the time. And I think that that was the other thing about my point. And some of our voice messages back and forth was like, I just think these conversations are really valuable because they're not really easy to get answers. Like somebody's probably waiting for a soundbite

and be like, Hey, I just want to be able to say like this sentence or these two sentences. Yep. I'm going to church. Right? Yeah, exactly. Thanks Ben. Yeah. Why is Mark Bell going to church? Oh, Ben said to, you know, it's like, that's not really where we're at. You know,

we have to have real conversations about this stuff, you know? So I think, uh, it's important to have some sort of overarching rules to your life, you know? And again, I,

I grew up with two parents that were right there that were super supportive. And I do remember a lot of the lessons that I've learned through them. Uh, I also had an oldest brother that showed me pretty much every way possible to not live. And that was easy to identify, easy to remember. Cause a lot of that stuff was painful to see. I remember seeing him getting arrested in front of me, you know, multiple times, even when I was like probably, I don't know, 15 or so. Like just, you know, stuff that just, that's like my brother. That's like, that's my big brother. That's my childhood hero. And here he is, you know, going down this path.

And so, you know, seeing a lot of those things, it helped me. It helped my shape, my, I guess, like moral compass or some direction that I had. I would just kind of observe certain things. I observed the way my dad lived and seeing him go to work and do a nine to five every day wearing a suit and tie. I was like, whatever that is, I don't want that. Watch my brother get arrested and like all kinds of shit like that. I was like, whatever that is, I don't want that. You know, so I could kind of, you know, kind of weave my way and see different sides of the family. Like my mom's side of the family, the house is like, literally the house was like dark when I'd go to my mom's side of the family. And both of her parents were alcoholics when she was growing up. And so she grew up in kind of a rough neighborhood. So she grew up in kind of a rough neighborhood.

Not too far down the street was where my dad grew up. And where my dad grew up was like, it was way nicer. The house was nicer. The house was brighter. Everybody was happy. Everybody was into like what the kids were doing. Like, oh, you want to go play wiffle ball? Or you want to go throw around the football? Like we just went outside and did that.

And my mom's side of the family at their place it was like everyone's kind of grumpy or grouchy and so i could kind of view i was like this i want to live like this everyone's happy this is uh this is pretty cool and my grandmother and grandfather they were both religious they were both actually both sets of both uh parents were religious uh they were both religious. They were both, actually both sets of both parents were religious. They were both Catholic. And then also I was kind of seeing and talking to my dad over the years about his, you know, him going from Catholic to being Christian. That lit up a bunch of stuff in my brain. I'm like, oh, I don't have to be what he is. I get to choose. And I didn't even know. I mean, he wasn't trying to force me into anything.

I just thought, like, oh, I was going to do what he's doing because I'm 12 or whatever. But as he started explaining it to me more, I was like, oh, I get to, like, just eventually pick whether I want to go to a certain style of church or be a certain religion or I could even not adopt a religion. So I always found that to be really interesting. What I will say is that I think it's undeniable, like the information in the Bible is helpful. The information and the communal setup of most churches is going to be beneficial to most people. Getting around other people, like-minded people.

There are people that obviously share similar beliefs. The gym can be that way to a certain extent. And I think this country can use stuff like that. I think it can be really important. Just a lot of times when I see stuff or listen to stuff where God is interjected into the picture, I always kind of think, man, I think that you would meet people where they're at a little easier if you waited to mention God. Not like it should be some sort of trick. Oh, you're inside a church now, you know? Not that it should be any sort of trick, but i think there's so many valuable lessons and there's so many ways to guide uh some of our youth that maybe some kids would be more open to listening for a little bit to hear these cool wonderful stories that can help you help change your life through some of these quotes and scriptures and stuff uh but then you might have to kind of uh

put the religion stamp on it maybe a little bit more afterwards. I don't know. Yeah, I think what you're saying is that it's really important to invest before you try to take a lot of times. I think a lot of times people come in and they just want to just like get these people to just convert to Christianity or convert to Jehovah Witness or whatever. You know what I mean?

And they're just trying to get them to convert, convert, convert, but they haven't really invested anything. Right? And so it's like take a little time. Really look at them and see what they need. Meet them where they're at. And that's really important. I think when you read the Bible and what you mentioned a second ago was I don't have to choose what my dad chooses. I can choose my own thing.

That is 100% right. You know what I mean? We're all left with that choice. Like Jesus even said that to his disciples. He's like, who do you say that I am? Some people say you're a teacher. And it's like, yeah, but who do you say that I am? I think it was Peter said, I believe that you're the son of God.

He's putting them all on the spot. Right? Yeah. And that's like a very poignant and timely question, right? Because the identity and the way that they saw Jesus was going to change the way they lived one way or the other. You know what I mean? And so we all get this point in life where we get to choose. And so it was in that question that your guys' conversation was like really cool because you guys are making certain choices.

Like it's all intentional. There's a lot of people who go through this life and they're really unintentional about anything they do. And there are real consequences to life. There are real consequences to action, inaction, intentionality, inintentionality, unintentionality, whatever that would be. Choosing a religion, not choosing a religion. You know, Jesus didn't say to Peter or his disciples, like, what are you going to do? Like, uphold these rules. He just went and said, who do you say that I am?

Right? So that's another thing I get frustrated with is I think that Christianity has really been represented as a book of rules. And it really is – like I asked one of these young guys I'm working through and helping him see the Bible and helping him understand what God's teaching through the Bible. And I said, how do you become a Christian? Like first and foremost, how do you become a Christian? Like that should tell you something, right? He's like, well, you go to church.

And I'm like, okay, all right. Let's just back up the truck a little bit because Jesus said, you know, and this is a little bit of a Sunday school lesson for some of you guys who haven't heard this before, but Jesus said you must be born again, which means you must put your faith in him. You must trust him if you confess through your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. I can say these things really fast. I've said them a long time, right? That you'll be saved.

So it was all based on a mindset. It was all based on a belief, right? I believe this enough to say it. That's how he became a Christian, right? It wasn't like, are you willing to, I mean, there's all kinds of lifestyles that Christians speak against these days, right? Are you willing to not be gay anymore, right? Like, that's not what Jesus said.

Jesus didn't say that. Like, oh, you're addicted to alcohol? He's like, are you willing to give up alcohol? He didn't say that. He didn't say start there. Like, that's not where you're trying to meet people at. Like, dude, you're obviously, you know, drinking way too much, Mark.

Like, do you want to be a Christian or not? Well, you better put down the booze. Like, that's not how it goes that's not the conversation right Jesus starts with something very very different and he says like who do you say that I am and then when you wake up the next day you're just left with the same choice over and over again like you don't

get saved in the Christian faith by by doing and then grow by doing you get saved by faith and choosing that. And then each and every day, wake up choosing the same thing. And then just saying no to the things that kind of interact, you know, conflict with that. And that's what you do.

You know, it doesn't have to be rules upon rules upon rules. Which I think helps me. And I'm not saying that I'm at all on the level with Jesus, this guy, right? I'm not, I'm just saying on every show, I think it helps Jesus walk in and out of circles where most religious people thought you should not be there. And it's helped me because I'm just like, Hey, this is real. Like, this is not asking you guys to be somebody different. I'm just saying like, who do you say Jesus is? You know? And I think that's a really important question for people to, to understand and grapple with. So, you know, when you mentioned, because a lot of people,

if they don't know anything about the Bible, or if they've maybe just seen Christianity as memes on Instagram or stuff on TV, they do think it's just a pure book of rules with very, like, Christians who hate certain groups of people and dislike certain lifestyles, etc. But, you know, one thing that I found is super strong, especially like obviously being brought up in it, is the amount of stories of different types of things that have happened to people. And that if it's like you're taught the Bible being young, you can then pull on these stories. For example, like Job and suffering. the Bible being young, you can then pull on these stories. For example, like Job and suffering.

I can't think of another book that, you know, talks about the suffering of an individual and how that person came through that in that way, or Joseph and his family, and then forgiving his family after putting him into slavery. It's a story of like forgiving people that you care about after they betray you, which if you haven't heard things like that, somebody does you wrong and you don't necessarily maybe have a reference point. You're like, fuck you. You did me wrong. But for me, when I was younger, having those stories, when things happened, my mind went to, well, Joseph did this. I think I have the strength to do that. Or, hey, King David did this. I think I have the ability to do that there's just so many different stories in it that are that are great lessons that i again i just have the

reference point of being brought up in it so i'm just trying to figure out when i have kids i'm going to use the bible as a study point whether they believe that jesus christ is the son of God. For me personally, that's not the biggest deal, but those stories are so fucking powerful and they've had such a big effect that like, I don't know another book that like, and that's, that's why also I think it'd be beneficial to maybe just learn about other things. But that book itself just has so many references that are so strong. That's why I think it is really beneficial to understand at least. There was a real sports years ago on a football player named Ray Carruth. And Ray Carruth had, I believe he had his girlfriend murdered while she was pregnant.

He had his girlfriend or his girlfriend was? He had his girlfriend. He had his girlfriend murdered while she was pregnant. He had his girlfriend or his girlfriend was, he had his girlfriend. He had his girlfriend murdered, um, by, uh, by just a killer, just a guy that has gotten paid before to like kill,

kill people. Yeah. Uh, this person just went right up to her window and just shot her. She died. They're able to salvage the baby. The baby continued on with the grandmother because obviously dad's lunatic and mom's dead. And in a real sports special, they asked the woman, they're like, have you, you know, what's, you know, what's your situation with like,

what do you think of Ray Carruth? And she's i forgave him and they were like they were like what this kid's disabled for life she is her you know the kid's caretaker and she's not even looking at it like i have to take care of this kid i'm stuck with this kid she's like i'm gonna fight for this kid just as if it's my own like this is a beautiful thing that this kid is here with me. And I just thought that was so powerful. It's like, holy shit. But it was because of her faith in God. And I don't think, it's hard to kind of imagine anyone that, any other person being able to

do that than somebody that really believes in God very heavily. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's, that brings in that issue of people. She just said she would suffer more. Yeah. She would suffer more if she – so she just – yeah, she forgave him. I was like, holy shit. That's wild.

And I think that's – in perspective, kind of putting those two things together, you just said, and Seema and Mark, there's these cool stories or these amazing stories. Maybe cool is just too small of a word, right? There's these life-changing stories in the Bible, okay? But something that I found through the Bible is there's a picture that's painting. It's not just these individual brushstrokes. There's a masterpiece there. And when you look at it, it's actually claiming that Jesus is the son of God. That's what it's claiming, right? Now, not everybody is going to believe that. And that is their choice.

It is okay. And I 100% support that. I would go to war to fight that you guys – everybody has a choice to do what they should be able to do. I think autonomy is important. I think autonomy is important. But when we say we'll take what Jesus says over here and say, yeah, that's good and useful for me because it's so, so helpful. It's great. It's good.

I mean, I guess we're kind of taking the good from something. But it's also a bit of a contradiction in the sense that like, well, one thing Jesus taught was, I'm the son of God, and he who has seen me has seen the father. Like, well, I don't really like that part of it. That's not that critical to me. But that was his whole point in being here. It wasn't just to he who has committed no sin, let him cast the first stone. The reason why he said that, he was trying to point out that everybody has sinned. And that's the reason why he was here in the first place as the sinless son of God. And so I'm not trying to trivialize what we are deducing or taking out of the Bible. But what I'm trying to say is he was himself, this teacher that we're saying, like, you've got some good moral points for this whole world, Jesus. If everybody followed him, they'd be really, really great. And what he's saying is,

yes, I did all that, but I didn't just kind of point to a bigger reality that matters something maybe beyond what any of us are really thinking about right now. And that's something of an eternal perspective. And so I think that Jesus was either who he said he was, I think that Jesus was either who he said he was or he was a liar. There's only really two options, right? And you can believe that you are who you say you are and still be lying, right? You're just living a lie and you believe your own lie and that's totally possible. But like if he said all these things, he's either crazy, right?

Or it's true or he's Christ crazy, right? Or it's true, or he's Christ, you know? And so we just have to look at the evidence there, I think too. And I think that was like almost what I always want to leave people with when I talk to them about this stuff is like, hey, why don't you re-examine your faith? Like you re-examine your faith and go like, it wasn't as useful as I thought it was. Just re-examine it one more time with that in mind. Maybe there's something more. Maybe Jesus himself, who was this good moral teacher, was actually pointing towards a bigger reality. And he was so counter-cultural, he was hard to ignore. So I was just reading in 1 Timothy chapter 6, there's this chapter on, it's essentially on money, right? But it starts out with slaves. It says, you guys who are slaves, who you work for a master who is not sharing your same faith.

Like, okay, this is good because a slave, what do they want to do? They want to be free. Okay, good. Thanks for rolling that in. Okay. I didn't know you were actually asking a question. Yeah. Slave wants to be free, right? Didn't give us enough time.

Yeah, I know, right? A slave would like to be free versus under bondage, right? So you also could translate that word bond servant, right? Well, in that, you'd think, okay, so what's going to follow this? If you are a slave and you're working for a non-sharing of the faith master, the guy's going to tell you like, well, in order to get free, you got to do this. He doesn't say that.

He actually says, if you don't work for a believing master, he's like, I want you to work even harder because what they're going to do if you don't is they're going to lump in your belief system with your work ethic. And I don't want my name, that's God speaking, to be reviled because of your work ethic. Didn't give a rip about their financial situation. Cared more about his name.

That's really hard for people to hear sometimes. They say, hey, if you're a Christian slave and you work for a believing master, well, work hard because all your hard work makes money that helps benefit the whole of the body of Christ. So he cares about his church, right? So he cares about his witness, people's witness to the world when they're unbelievers, and he cares about the church, okay, when they are surrounded by other Christians. And then at the very end of that chapter, what's really crazy, he talks about the rich, okay? And when I say that's crazy is that God is countercultural. It's because we address the rich first, always.

We address the strong first. We address the powerful first. We always address them first and they get this like little postscript on the rich, right? And we go into that and I don't want to make it into a sermon, so I won't do that. But it's like, there's just this whole idea of how God does these things, and he's so countercultural. He brings out the best last. There should be last.

Right? And that's what he constantly does, and it's in his word throughout. And I think that he uses the least of these to shame the wise. It's all throughout the scriptures, and Those are the things that I think people sometimes miss along with the fact that this guy who taught them a lot of really good lessons also claimed to be the son of God and threatened grave things if you don't believe it. Right? Like that's the reality. It's still the end of the day. That's – it kind of comes back down to that.

What if God or jesus uh came back like like there's always somebody here now that's claiming i think there's like a guy i'm sure there's probably more than one guy but like just how would we know you know you would think you would know like oh i would know um nowadays there's a lot of like interesting news cycling around and there's deep fakes and there's artificial intelligence and stuff like that. Deep fakes. That stuff is troubling to me. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

I know. It really is. Yeah. I don't know. What do you think? How would we – yeah. Well – How would we know?

If Jesus came back, you're saying? If God came back? If that's how Jesus from the Bible came back. Yeah. Well, I think that that's – it's not funny. It's ironic that you ask that because the Bible does teach that Jesus will come back, right? And he says he'll take his church with him. So there are some people – and there's actually quite a healthy number of Christians that believe this, that Jesus will come back and he'll actually take people who believe in him with him.

Have you ever watched the movie Left Behind? Oh, Last of Us? I've seen all of them. Nope. So good. Left Behind, I've only ever seen it. I saw Last of Us, which is kind of not the best base to it. I mean, Last of Us, you know, there's people that are gone.

The reason why he's laughing is he really has been racing the church enough to know these things. I've seen all of them. Yeah, right? So it's like a Christian series. First, it started with Kirk Cameron. He played – I don't remember the name. And then Nikolai Karpathia was the Antichrist. That movie has been redone like two more times.

Dude, Nick Cage did one. What? You can pull that up for us. Nick Cage did a Left Behind movie? Oh, damn. Yeah. It's pretty wild. And it's all the same premise. I was on Gibson's movie. Was that in again? Cage did one. What? You can pull that up for us. Nick Cage did a Left Behind movie? Yeah. Oh, damn. Yeah. It's pretty wild.

And it's all the same premise. I was in Gibson's movie. Was that in again? That was the passion. That was good. There you go. That's the OG one. That's the OG one.

Yeah. That was based on a book series, which I read the books. I didn't really get into the movies all that much. There you go. Oh, there it is. Look at Nick Cage. He did a Left Behind. Wow. I think he had some time where he was really struggling in Hollywood, right?

Do we know that about him? He had some issues. He was struggling. He has a vampire movie coming out. Does he? Yeah. Oh, I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, you know, so like I said, there's a good number of Christians that believe that Jesus is going to come back. He's going to take his church with him. And that is kind of going to usher – and this is like – this is – So that's how we'll know. People just disappear. People will start disappearing. Yeah. And then you'll go like that's really weird.

That's not true. Like where did this come from? Why are the third of the people here or a quarter of the people or whatever? There's a huge number of people that have never disappeared before and aren't coming back. Why are they gone? And people will start looking around for answers, right? And that's – I think if you think about it it is congruent with the way god is he's like he's trying to get people just to look up right like

he's just trying to get people to go hey you can't figure this out on your own maybe if you just he's getting people to look up and they're saying i was down with you since day one why did you bring me and he's like oh, ah, yeah, you know? Yeah. It's, it's interesting, interesting question. So yeah, I would say people will be gone if, if,

if Jesus does come back in that way. There are some people who don't think that's the way it's going to happen, but I don't really know what I say on that. Hopefully there's a bit more structure if it does happen, you know, maybe people that aren't driving, just when they get out of their cars, that'd be ideal.

Yeah. The planes. Let's hope there's no one flying a plane. That's christian at the time because that would suck yeah yeah yeah i want to i want to i want to i'm curious about your viewpoint on this ben because like a group that obviously has a lot of dislike for christianity and disdain are gay, right? So let's say that you're talking to a youth that's gay or whatever. How do you handle that as a Christian? Do you believe that's something that's wrong? That's a good question.

Because that's like a big crux and a big topic for Christians versus others. And that's so true. And I think because of what happens politically, Christians will mobilize and they'll stand against something that they think is wrong as an idea, right? And they think that homosexual marriage is an oxymoron, right? And they'll stand against it as an idea. right and they'll stand against it yeah as an idea but what you wouldn't find from most christians i would say most at least the ones i've interacted with is them standing against an individual right so they wouldn't be like hey i'm not your friend anymore because you're gay right and the

bible says that's wrong well the reality is um the Bible says a lot of things are wrong. Yeah. Okay. The real idea is the Bible says sleeping with your girlfriend is wrong. Before marriage, yeah. Right? It's wrong. Lying is wrong.

In fact, homosexuality isn't one of God's top ten. It's not in the Ten Commandments. Don't be gay. Right? There's a lot of other things. It's not in the Ten Commandments. Don't be gay. Right?

There's a lot of other things. So I think our political world, I think the media, I think there's a lot of things that drive wedges between people. And everybody likes a villain. Right? So homosexuals have the church. The church seemingly, the media would paint it that way, has homosexuals. And I think there are some Christians who would step out there and help validate that yeah like you know again you'll see

subsects of like when people see certain things about Christianity on the internet and like let's say it's that you'll see groups of people that are trying to pray the gay away and that type of stuff you'll see that but you won't see the people who are Christian that don't mind if someone's gay or whatever. It doesn't matter to them. Right.

So that's, yeah. And that's, that's the hard part. Cause if, if a Christian is pressed to say, Hey, what do you think about homosexuality? And I'll say, I think it's a sin along with a bunch of other things. And they go, you hate me. And I'm like, okay, well, that's not really true because a bunch of the other sins I struggle with myself. And I've been forgiven for them. And God loves me. I can't imagine he doesn't love you. Yeah.

Right? But it doesn't start that way. And everybody wants sound bites. And so for me, I think there are some problems with certain lifestyles because they don't align with the word of God and it makes life hard, you know? But lying, whatever. Right. But when a, like when an adult person, let's say that they're hearing Christianity in the Bible, but they're gay and that's just how they feel that like people say, that's how I'm wired. That's, I'm attracted to that. I'm not attracted to my opposite sex. I'm attracted to that that that's just how i am and how i am as a sin that's a very hard pill for someone to swallow and say that you are not my enemy because you are telling me that the way i view my attraction is a sin so i can understand why people that are gay do not like that because they're just being told that their life and their attraction is sin. Yeah. They're being told that who they are at the very core of who they are is wrong.

It's different from lying. It's different from stealing. It's your core. Right. Well, let me just say that – It's not like your sexuality is your core. That's a big deal for some people. But we don't frame it in a way

that is helpful at all. We're not doing ourselves any favors in the church. I'll just say that. Okay? So the homosexual, and there is a difference with, it even says in the Bible, when we have sexual sin. It's a different type of sin because of the weight that it carries.

I think because it involves another person in a lot of ways and it kind of – I don't know exactly why. But there are some people who will spend time and they'll really break that down. But when you look at something like that and you hear a response like that, you're telling me at the very core of who I am. It's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is our sin nature as people is manifesting itself in so many different ways. And it does manifest itself in your life in this way. And am I saying that's wrong? Yes, I am.

But I'm also saying the way that sin manifests itself in my life is also wrong. Like, it doesn't matter if I try not to lie. The core of who I am is still sinful and still needs forgiveness. That's what the Bible teaches and I believe that. Like, I literally believe that. I don't think that I'm good. I don't think I'm like closer to God because I'm not gay. And you're also saying that all sin is equal. I am. Yeah, I am saying that because like the damage of one sin, what did Adam and Eve do? They ate a piece of fruit, right? Like we're not talking about Adam found, I don't know, there was no guy around. Like, you know, he doesn't like, he committed homosexuality. Adam trusted a woman, man. Right? He trusted a woman.

Yeah. Well, what he did was he just said, you know just said, I'm not going to listen to God. And that's, I think, what we all start with. I just want to live my life my own way. And I think I give people, hey, there's this way you go to heaven. Jesus said, I'm the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. And people are pissed.

They're like, what do you mean? I would like to live my life my own way. I'm like, all right, fine. Here's two ways. People will still be pissed. I can give you a thousand ways to go to heaven, but people will be ticked if I give them only a thousand. Jesus didn't say that. We want nuance.

We want to be our own, and I think that speaks to our nature. I think we actually want to be our own. We want to be the God of our own, and I think that speaks to our nature. I think we actually want to be our own, we want to be the God of our own life. Right? We want to elevate ourselves to we are autonomous and we get to make that decision. Right? And that's fine. We actually do. We actually do get to make that choice.

We just don't make a choice of how it ends up. The consequences that we face are real. And so we are left with a choice. Choose. Be your own God or follow God. Power Project family, shut your mouth. We've been talking about breathing through your nose and nasal breathing during your sleep for the past five years. That's why we've partnered with Hostage Tape. It's the best tape on the market. Sticks to your face even if you have

a beard. So head to hostage tape dot com slash power project and you'll be able to get a year supply of tape for fifty five cents a day. saves you 150 it's a no-brainer links in the description and the podcast show notes enjoy the show it seems like there's a lot less people that are religious nowadays i don't know if that's true here in the united states but i would say that's true seems to be the case and a lot less people going to church um what do you think has led to that i I don't know, but it's, well, I mean, I do have some ideas, but it also makes people like me, people kind of sometimes will just dismiss me a little bit more with my faith because it's, there's not a lot of people saying it anymore. Before, it's like you have to mobilize against something that's really got a lot of traction. It's like, we better be like vehemently against this. But now it's like, I feel like

people who are willing to stand on the word of God and stand on the Bible, very few, very rare. You know, most people flex a lot, you know, and I think a lot of it does have to do with influence of the media. I think that we see certain things. I think a lot of us are caught off guard because we're unintentional about a lot of our stuff. We're on our phones a lot. We don't think about anything. I think that community in general is down, right? And I think you'd see that like in Elks Clubs, Boy Scouts, churches. Like you wouldn't even have to go as far as Christianity.

Like you'd probably see that across the board in almost all types of faith. I'm sure there's little slices where people have little revivals and things like that. But for the most part, I think that it's just kind of moving away from like a postmodern, it's a post-Christian society. You know, we've kind of found a way to reason away the need for a God. We answer a lot of life's bigger questions like about where did we come from, you know. We esteem big brains like Richard Dawkins or, you know, people like that, you know. And you guys probably know who that is I think. But, you know, he also said that life could have literally come from aliens.

Like he's really smart but he also said that. So, you know, I think it's – a lot of it is just that, like this world is kind of just kind of starts to choke out the voices, you know, of, I don't know, the church and of God. Nothing really special, I don't think. So we're just wandering away. Yeah. Yeah. away yeah yeah i think people do that with fitness sometimes too and i think it's uh less common now because i think people are understanding excuse me the value of fitness and the value of uh eating healthy is like so undeniable right that uh people don't really mind as much if someone's like a

fitness freak but they still will mind if someone's religious and they'll say oh he's you know he's like watch out for that guy he's too religious like you don't want to get yeah you know when i caught up with that guy he's gonna try to make you go to church yeah andrew you got anything over there uh yeah um last few times you know or last time on this episode you talked a lot and i was like oh man i'm just waiting no no no i'm not like well well, in regards to like why I think church in general is like less popular now. I do not mean this to be mean, like the way it's going to come out, but it's going to sound mean. It's just that people are starting to think for themselves.

They're not following like, oh, mom and dad went to church, so now I go to church. The last time I tried to go back to church, it was like, I'll just explain the whole thing. I don't know the exact story. It was a Christian church. Uh, basically who, I don't know names of anybody, so I'm going to butcher the heck out of this story, but, uh, somebody was visiting someone else's, uh, town or something. And there was a bunch of statues of a certain god or whatever it may be uh the ruler of that town said everybody must praise this god here and whoever doesn't gets

put into basically this big oven where they cook everybody oh yeah i know okay i was waiting for him to see me he's like yeah he's like i know what it is yeah so anyways this person was like no i believe in jesus or i believe in god, okay, throw him in the room. And everybody else that believes what he believes also. Throw him in the room. He survives. Oh, shit. Like, how the heck did you survive?

Oh, because I believe in God. Okay, that's it. From now on, whoever doesn't believe in God is going to go right in the same room. The entire church got up clapping, screaming, that's right. Like you guys are literally celebrating the exact same thing that you were just against. Like I thought that was crazy. And that was like my last, I was like, I ain't coming back here again. But here in America, Christianity and Catholicism are just normal because this is where we were

born. And Catholicism are just normal because this is where we were born. I don't know if this is 100% like total propaganda, but in high school, I remember we learned that like, oh, the Taliban, they go on these suicide missions. And they're promised that when they die, God's going to smile upon them and they will be given like 72 virgin wives when they go to heaven. We look at that here in America. Sounds like a lot of work. Right. We look at that here in America and we're like... Not the virgins.

Yeah. They don't know what it is. But we look at that here in America and we're like, that's so stupid. Who would believe that? It's like, well, we believe in our own thing, but why do we not think it's stupid? It's just because it's been here for a very long time. But I just think it's, oh, that's just a religion. And then what we believe here is also just a religion. And so that's where I'm always like, well, why is that silly? But ours, nope, ours is the one. This is, this one's, nope, this is the one. This is, we believe in this one. This one's right. And nobody can change my mind. I'm taking notes. I don't have my phone for this.

By the way, was that story Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego? Well, I thought it was going that way, but I think it turned into Daniel and the Lion's Den. Oh. Yeah, I apologize. I don't know exact. But I just remember thinking that was weird. It was an oven. It was an oven.

Yeah, and then it was like into a room, only one guy. And I'm like, but Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego was three guys. So I think Daniel. It was i'm like but shadrach mishad bingo's three guys so i think it was multiple guys so i don't know yeah yeah and again so i apologize for butchering the story but it was just so crazy to me i'm like nobody's gonna just stop and think like hey wait a second maybe you didn't get the story right your point is invalid moving on i don't want to answer that question. Yeah, that's 2023, right? Yeah. You know, I think that, let me just say this.

You said people might be not going to church anymore because they're starting to think for themselves. I would say false. I don't see people thinking for themselves these days. I see a lot of people who are following propaganda. I think people are following the media. People are not thinking for themselves. In fact, sometimes even in fitness, you have people who are just like swayed by the new fitness influencer. They can't even get progress because they're just like, well, this new guy or

this chick or this, what, you know what I mean? Like there's just no continuity. And so I would say, I think at times people do think for themselves, but I think that we have the same trap. We think we're thinking for ourselves, but we're not. We're actually letting somebody else do the thinking for us on that. So I took a, my new role is associate pastor, actually. So I took a role at a local church. And so I work in pastoral ministry. And so one of the things I was asked yesterday by a group of, we call elders, people who just kind of govern the pastoral staff in the church. Like, what do you, why are you here? Like, why are you, because somebody asked me, are you trying to create a name for yourself? Like, that's what they asked me.

Like, are you here to create a name for yourself? And I'm going to a really small fellowship around 100, 150 people, okay? And like, I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm not trying to build you up. a really small fellowship around 100, 150 people. I'm not trying to build you up. I'm not Mark Bell in the fitness world, but I'm not a nobody. If I wanted to create a name for myself, I'd press in to the fitness world. You know what I mean? That's what I would do.

I'd start leveraging my relationships and I would try to really push in that. The reason why I'm here is because I think bad preaching is one of the biggest dangers to the church from within, right? So it's not you guys having conversations like, I don't know about this stuff, right? Like that's – you're not Christians. Like I don't expect you to be like talking like me. You know what I mean? Like I just don't expect that. I don't expect you to be like, oh oh yeah, Jesus is the son of God. It doesn't bother me at all when you guys don't necessarily think that.

But I think the biggest problem within the church is bad preaching. And so when you have somebody like yourself, Andrew, shows up for the first time and they get like this message that is not reflective of God's entire heart. Like do I think there are really bad circumstances for somebody who says, I am going to flex on my belief because the king says he'll kill me? Yeah, I think there is. I think that we should have more cojones than that. Like, we should be able to go like, I believe what I believe and I don't care what you say, you know? And then I also think that it's really weird whenever he stands up and is like happy that

the king's going to put death to death people who don't think. Like they aren't given the same opportunity that the king himself was given by seeing both sides of the issue, right? So my passion is teaching the word of God, teaching the Bible. I keep saying that. I'm used to running in Christian circles right now. Teaching the Bible the way that the Bible is meant to be taught. And when I say that, I mean there was a writer. Like my job when I'm talking to Nsema is to interpret Nsema's words as he intends them.

It's not to interpret them like I want to. That's not how you have a conversation because then I can just make Nsema say whatever the hell I want. I can make the Bible say whatever I want, which is why I made that point. Like, hey, guys, Jesus did say he was also the son of God. So let's also look at that. Like remember why Jesus said these things. So I'm going to look at the prophet of Isaiah and I'm going to see why did he say that? What was he really saying?

Because that's where a lot of people get lost. They say – they run a Bible saying they're well-intentioned people. And so if you're a Christian, you're listening to this and you're kind of frustrated with me and you run a Bible study and you read a passage like John 3, 16, for God so loved the world that gave his only son, whoever believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life. And you look at your Bible study group and you say, what does that mean to you? Like, okay, but what did it mean to John when he wrote it? What did he mean? That's way more important before we get to what does it mean to you?

It's not like we never get to ask that question. But I think there's a lot of people who just jump right to what does it mean for you? Or, you know what I mean? And so bad preaching exists. I like that a lot. They do that a lot with music. They ask the band, they ask the lead singer, like, what's this song about? And they usually don't tell them.

Right. And it's because of that reason because they want – in that case, they want people, hey, it has a special meaning to you. Let's leave it that way. Yeah, the ambiguity is good. Yeah, I want you to interpret it that way. Yeah. Yeah. But when you're talking about ancient manuscripts and writings and you're saying there's this heavy weight, depending on which way you go one way or the other,

you know, ambiguity is not really good. But if you're preaching to the choir and you really believe that you are, you might just say, Hey, I'll just kind of just say something that feels good, fills up the offering basket, you know,

and get people kind of riled up. Get an amen. Get an amen. Yeah, exactly. You kind of measure your, like I was waiting, I had,

I got to preach yesterday on, on money. and that's going to be a really weird thing. People come to church and they hear about money. And I said a couple of things. I was just waiting for the hook. I thought they were going to take me and pull me right off the stage. You know what I mean? Because like I said, there are certain things. I'm like, God doesn't really care about your financial situation as much as you guys all might think.

You know what I mean? You might have to give up some of that. And I think there's a lot of people in the church and it's like prosperity gospel. Like become a Christian. You'll get like all kinds of this. It's like that looks really bad. Like we're just saying the same things are important to us that it is to everybody else in the world. That's money.

It's advancement. It's cars. It's whatever. It's like remember I said something earlier. Jesus is countercultural he didn't care about that stuff he would have modeled if he did he would have a mansion and he would have this but instead he said the mansion's actually in the future it's in the future when you're not going to be here anymore you know what i mean so for me um that's a huge

it's not even pet peeve it's like my life's mission is to move against bad preaching within the church. I'm not going to say great always at talking to people who don't share my same faith and communicate all the truths of the Bible in the best way, but people who have that initial faith in God and helping them see the Bible as clear and as accurate as they can, I can feel like that's a gift that God's given me and it's what I like to do the most. Yeah. It may be fair to say that like religion maybe just isn't taught in the homes as much anymore, maybe as strict as it used to be, and maybe that's part of the reason why people aren't going to church.

Like Andrew's saying, people are kind of thinking for themselves. Maybe they, like you said earlier about people should reexamine their faith, and maybe some people just never even got to the point to examine it in the first place. And so I think that might be where a lot of people land right now is they might not i think about my own son i'm like shit i probably need to talk to him about this a lot more um i know my dad has but i probably need to speak with him more about these kinds of things so just to get his just to get his brain head in that direction so he can make a choice on his own. But in our household, religion is not part of it. And now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, well, it would actually be helpful to at least talk about it a little bit.

So that way they can examine it and determine for themselves. Yeah, I think that'd be good. Even the conversations that we had today or the ones you had before, like making that with your kids, having that with your kids. And see if you're trying to figure out like, what am I going to do? Like, I'm, I mean, I have kids, I'm going to treat, treat them the Bible, but like how much of the Bible and like, how are they going to see it? You know, do I want them to see it? Like I see it.

Do I want them to see it? Like the writer intended it, you know, like, how do I, you know, want to do those things? And I think one of the hard parts about church on Sundays is it takes up a lot of time. You know what I mean? I think you brought that up on the last podcast, right? It's like, geez, giving up a couple hours because – I mean it's really like three or four hours because you got to get ready. You know what I mean? Like I don't – I actually preach in a t-shirt.

You know, like it's just no big deal. You know what I mean? I don't have the kind of style that Nsema has. I loved when he went – when we started going to a different church where they would just wear casual clothes. Yeah. Oh, God. that was the greatest. Yes. Preacher comes up and flip flops in a fucking point. I was like, yeah,

let's go. Yeah, this is better. So, but it takes time, you know, and a lot of us don't have a lot of time. We have a lot of things going on. I think there are certain pursuits we have in this world is pretty freaking interesting. And so it's nice to do things. It's nice to get out.

It's nice to experience other things. It really is a sacrifice to go to church. You know, I think that's okay though. You know, anything that you really want is worth sacrificing for. And we preach that in other areas. You're spending time on figuring out ways to like, I guess, better your life. You're spending time on figuring out ways to, I guess, better your life. I mean, religion aside, in your position, you're interpreting the Bible and helping people understand the message a lot better and stuff like that.

But even just for your average person, just to go to church, I think, is a look into a little bit of self-development, you know, personal development to examine, you know, where they're at. I mean, a lot of times when you listen, depending on the church that you go to, I guess, but most of the ones I've been to before, I find what they say really motivating. And a lot of times I'm like, oh man, like it gives me like ideas and stuff. I mean, this is really cool. And maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but I can get fired up and excited from that. And so I think it's definitely healthy for people to go. And it does take time, but so does the gym. So does any time you're trying to work on yourself and to, I don't know, try to keep your roots really strong, it's going to take time. Yeah. I mean, hearing from a good orator, you know, a good speaker, like especially if you speak for a living, like even that can be really entertaining and like helpful and educational. Like you go and you listen to somebody actually talk for a living. Wow, this guy talks every week, you know.

You guys talk a lot more. But, you know, to an audience and, you know, you mentioned like uh the influence a local pastor has you know over a congress like how does he have that what is it is it something he does is it is it really supernatural like these are good questions you know i mean they're great questions actually so joel olstein he'll get you fired up bro don't even get me started don't even get me started but one thing i was going to mention was like kind of similar to Mark in a way. I don't remember when I started like – as I started just like meeting more people, meeting more people that had different types of religious faith. That's when I started to like question the things that I believed and why I started to believe them.

I think we talked about this on the last podcast where we were talking about this topic. I think we talked about this on the last podcast where we were talking about this topic. And I personally, like I mentioned, I'm going to have a Bible in my house when I have a kid. I'm going to study it. And I think one great thing about the church I went to with the pastor, Pastor Rich Chafin over at Calvary Chapel, is that when he talked about the Bible and he was preaching about the Bible, he did his best to study the Bible, not insert what he believed into the message. And I've seen that done a lot. He did a really good job of understanding it and putting it forward in what was intended. But from that too, seeing how there are just so many different religions out there, I think it's a disservice to myself because I've, doing this podcast with all, with you guys for so long, I've seen how so many things that I thought were right were just wrong.

Like, and I believed them so strongly. And I believed in Christianity so strongly that I then started to be like, why do I believe this? And what are the things that these other people believe as strongly as I believe and even stronger? Why does this person believe in this other book? And it's like it's their lifeblood. There's nothing else. It would be beneficial to understand that. And that's kind of the way I look at that.

So I don't think there's no God personally. So I don't think there's no God personally, but I think it'd be a disservice not to understand personally, not to understand the basis of what other people do believe. Just so I can have a better understanding of the way they're looking at the world and the way they're coming at things. So I can communicate and understand them better rather than just shunning what they believe and saying you're wrong and this is right. You're wrong and this is right even though that – if I was as stark of a Christian as I used to be, that would be it. Like this is it and there is nothing else. That's just the way I looked at it and I'm still learning. That's the thing. I don't fucking know.

I'm still learning. But that's the way I'm trying to look at how I want to continue learning about all of this. And just to be fair, I don't want to discount that at all because I think that's a very real position. I actually think that's congruent with my own. Like I would never want to not know about where somebody else is coming from. You know what I mean? I want to know why the Hindu is the way they are. I want to know why they are so passionate about that. know why the Hindu is the way they are. I want to know why they are so passionate about that.

But I also don't feel like I need to necessarily step away from or abandon my faith in the Word of God and the Bible in order to do so, right? And just because there are certain competing worldviews out there, you know, I do believe there's truth out there. I believe there's truth. And I think that there is a reality based around that. And so, yeah, there are a lot of people who are Buddhist and there are a lot of people who are Muslim and there are a lot of people who are Jewish and Christian. And I actually think that one of us is right. That's where I'm different. You know what I mean? I do believe that one of us is right. And I think that what's really cool about if Christianity is the right one, right?

And I'll use the word if. It welcomes everybody to come over. That is true. Right? It says, come. The big sacrifice, God says, I already laid down my own son to pave the way and make it easy for you. So all you have to do is put your faith in that process, that person who did that for you. No questions asked. Come over.

Gay, Buddhist, black, white, doesn't matter. Slave, free. Come on over. It's come over. And is there not going to be consequences in this life for the things that we do? Oh, there will be. The Bible talks about them, right? In fact, it lays out capital punishment, right?

It lays it out but it talks about the redemption that comes in the end, right, as what we set our sights on. So for me, the competing worldview thing is why I spent more of my time doing it now than I did even five years ago, ten years ago, you know, because I think it matters. I think competing world views is important. I think another thing that happened, and I don't know why, I don't know if this has anything to do with the Bible, but I do think that disciplinary actions in the household, I think,

have probably turned a lot of people astray from religion. I know, like, my own upbringing, I mean, I didn't get hit much, but like I have been spanked and things like that before. My brothers used to get hit like a lot more because they're heathens. You're also the youngest, right? Yeah. So I learned by watching them, but these disciplines that may have been acquired from something that was read or misinterpreted. I don't know. Um, I just kind of remember

some of that, some of those things from when I was a kid and I was like, you know, if, if getting hit is from, you know, something I did that's bad in accordance to these rules from this book, I don't want anything to do with the book. Like how about I just don't pay attention to the book if I don't ever read the book? Then I'll just go and maybe there's a lot of hell to pay later on down the road for me. But that was kind of my view of it. And I think a lot of people have probably thought that way,

people who've gotten abused in school, at Catholic schools and so forth. Yeah. And I don't think that abuse is right. have gotten abused in school at, you know, Catholic schools and so forth. So, yeah. And I don't think that abuse is right. And I think that there are ways to definitely overstep positions of authority. I think we see that everywhere, whether it be the Bible or the law, you know, people overstep and it's not okay, you know, and I think there should be consequences to those oversteps.

But that being said, I think it is important and I don't know how. And I've read that Bible verse, spare the rod, lose the child. Okay. Well, again, we're talking about good Bible interpretation. The rod of discipline is something that's talked about in the concept. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you need a literal rod, right? To a lot of parents did. Yeah, and then it's like – and they think they're actually being good –

and it's like, oh my gosh. Like what do you mean? Like they just talked back or they didn't clean their room or they literally stole from – like I mean like at what point do you just – you bring in the rod? Yeah, they hurt somebody else. Yeah, like at what level do you do that? I think there's some discernment that needs to be used around that.

But again, I think teaching kids that there's a world of consequences out there is really important. And I'll say that big picture wise, I think that's what the idea is. And I'm not even trying to fluff over something that's hard because there are hard truths in the Bible. I just think that's also one of the ones that's misused as well. I would agree. And so, yeah, I think that it's important just again when we're looking at the Bible to look at it completely. And the other thing is too, sometimes we'll read something that's hard truth and maybe it said that. Maybe it said that the kid in Pakistan who's 12 didn't hear from Jesus and so he's going to go to hell.

And maybe it says that you should beat your kid every time they do something bad. And if it does, then it's just really hard and we have to take it on faith, which would kind of be hard. It would be a hard leg to stand on, right, for somebody like me. I don't think it necessarily says it like that. But if it did, we've got to create – what are we going to do? Create a worldview that we created ourselves? Or are we going to trust what God meant originally when he said this to us? So I don't know all the answers.

Again, like I said, I'm not necessarily the best apologist for the defender of the faith when it comes to every question. but i think that you're right that one was abused quite a bit but man speaking ain't just a christian thing doug yeah like yeah go to africa you go you go to you go to china you go anywhere else outside of here even if they're not christians they are those children are getting their asses beat. You know, just the discipline thing, that's an interesting one, you know? I don't think I'm going to spank my kids because

I think there's probably better ways to communicate, but I mean, shit, in African culture, that's just, Christian or not, community beatings. It's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. Man, you have big hands too. I would hurt.

Kids are not very big. Did you get spanked as a kid? I got spanked as a kid and I spanked my kids. I spanked my kids. They don't really move towards that level anymore. Mason's 15. He'd probably turn around and punch me. No.

But it was really interesting because we were really clear on our kids. It was first it was discipline. Like, you know, hey, you're going to stop doing whatever. And then if you didn't take that discipline, that correction we gave you, which was like go to your room or write sentences or go again beyond that, then it was like move on to punishment. And punishment was what we defined as was a spanking. And it was never like on to punishment. And punishment was what we defined as was a spanking. And it was never on their face or anything. It was like, spank their butt, send them to their room.

And we were really clear, especially with Mason and Corbin, because they're older and they're our first ones. And then our girls are the benefit of being the youngest, like you were. Just get to do whatever you want. No, I'm just kidding. We really spanked all of our kids.

But when I would threaten a spanking, I'd be like, do you want to get spanked again? And this was like four years after Corbin had ever gotten a spanking. He's like, no. It's like ingrained in his head, you know what I mean? And it's not even like – I wasn't really – some people who are like really triggered by this thing, I have a great relationship with my kids and they – it's still now.

They're like, no, I don't want this spanking. They know it I guess could happen. It has happened enough that they're like, oh, it just made me think for a second. But yeah, I haven't spanked my 15- and 12-year-old for a very long time. My girls, it's very, very, very seldom. I told the girls, I said, after you turn nine, because they're also a little bit – they have some behavioral issues and whatnot. So I'm not going to get into that too much.

So they – I told them, I said, after you turn nine, I said, my goal is to not have to spank you ever again. You know what I mean? Like never want to have to do that. So now we punch him with burpees and losing food or desserts and things like that. Exercise punishment. Yeah. Yeah.

I know. And it's like, it's really hard because how do you create like a response of pain with, and then you're like associating things like exercise with pain and discipline. Right. But the thing is – Well, burpees, they're always pain. Yeah. But the thing is they come to the gym with us since they have a lot of positive reinforcement on exercise too.

So probably way more, hopefully way more than they have around the other way. Otherwise, I'll just have me giving them like type 2 diabetes. Your kids have any rules with social media or phones or anything like that? Yeah. So my oldest son and my youngest son, so Mason and Corbin both have phones. Mason has an Instagram account. I started for him, oh gosh, probably like five years ago. I don't even know the password anymore.

So I've got to go in there and get it all figured out. But Mason doesn't have it on his phone. Corbin's having his phone. They both have access to YouTube. They use my account. So like we have a shared search history and kind of queue. And then – but they actually aren't on social media at all. In fact, I don't even have social media on my phone.

So my phone is void of any social media other than YouTube. So I have YouTube on there. So my phone is void of any social media other than YouTube. So I have YouTube on there. Have you found for yourself social media just like difficult to navigate or just you got yourself caught up in stuff that you don't want to? It's a total trap. You know what I mean? And so I have – I'm perfected in Christ and my faith, but I'm totally just a guy.

You know what I mean? I struggle. Too many – there's just too many people putting putting too many girls for me to look at. And I don't need this woman in those. I don't need to go. I don't need to go there. You know what I mean? Like I've chosen, you know, I have a beautiful wife and, uh, and I've chosen to be married and I choose every day to be married. And so I just kind of moved away from it. You know, it was something I really struggled with as a younger a younger man. And then even now, I know that if it was there, it would be something that would be like, hey.

Let me ask you that. Can you go into what you meant when you struggled with that as a younger man? What do you mean? So pornography, following social media accounts to the point where it's like it's not enhancing my relationship with my wife. That's not enhancing my relationship with God. That's not enhancing my relationship with anybody really. I'm just kind of objectifying whomever. I'm even still sensitive to that

in movies. So I watch radar movies. I watch movies of swearing and killing and murder and mystery. But I'm really sensitive to sex or nudity on screen. Same. And the main reason for that is because, well, if I'm watching a military war movie and somebody is like in a foxhole and they're like, give me my effing gun.

Like nobody – I'm not going to be like, oh, I can't believe he's swearing. You know what I mean? And on top of that, he's not really in a foxhole and they're like, give me my effing gun. Like, like nobody, I'm not going to be like, Oh, I can't believe he's swearing. You know what I mean? Like, and on top of that, he's not really in a foxhole. He's not really in a foxhole right now.

It's an actor. Right. And he's not really about to kill somebody. It's an, it's fake. But if I see a naked woman on screen, the reality is that's still somebody's daughter. It's still also somebody's wife,

you know? And just like if there was two people having sex over there, I wouldn't walk in the room and be like, hey, I'm going to watch. Like why at some point in my life did I think it was actually okay, right? And I never did. I never thought it was okay. There was something in me that knew it was not okay. You know what I mean so there you have it

even if you're not a Christian Doug like you sitting there beating your meat you're just like ah afterwards you just I'm nasty Christian or not you just know that you're being stupid you're a dirty person hey and I would just say

where does that moral code come from? You know what I mean? I'll just bring it back full circle. Where does that come from within us? So yeah, I don't know. That's why I'd say I struggle. So I don't want to have it on my phone. There's so many things I think I need to protect myself from.

I need to walk in a certain way that's worthy of the way I've been called to walk, you know, both as a husband, father, role model, teacher, CrossFit coach, or Christian. I think that's super powerful though, like that you, like as a guy, you know what draws your attention and you're guarding your inputs purposefully because you know that you have a wife that you want to be, you know,

you want to be faithful to, you want to be focused on, you want to be focused on, you want that to work. So you're like, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta be careful with these fucking inputs because they're messing with my mind in that way. And that's like, some people are like, oh, it doesn't matter. It doesn't make a difference, but it does make it matters. It definitely does. You know? So that's awesome, man. Nobody, nobody who's over 30 would say that. I don't think's over 30 would say that. I don't think anybody over 30 would say that. Somebody under 30 might say that doesn't matter.

You know what I mean? But nobody over 30 would say that stuff doesn't play any kind of factor in your mind or your relationship. You know what I mean? But yeah, there are people out there probably listening who are like, ah, it doesn't matter. Okay. Just wait. Yeah. Okay.

You know, it totally matters. Yeah, it's not any extra helpful to be looking at other people and i think uh it's something that just people spend a lot of time doing you know you end up you said it's a trap you're on there for way longer than you should be um and i think you know for people that don't think it's a big deal, a good way to check yourself on that is just some role reversal. You know, now your wife is looking at a bunch of guys or whatever it might be. Yep. Right. And it's like, how does that, is that you totally cool with that?

Like, is that doesn't matter at all to you? I don't know. It might matter a little bit. Right. And then another way to check is just, well, then just stop for 30 days or a year or whatever. Right. Oh, you're not an alcoholic? Well, then don't drink. Right. And then another way to check is just stop for 30 days or a year or whatever, right? Oh, you're not an alcoholic? Well, then don't drink. Nice way to check. Yeah, it's an easy way to check. You got to check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Andrew, take us on out of here, buddy. All righty. Thank you, everybody. My throat's all jacked up. For checking out today's episode, please drop those comments down below. And then if you guys are interested in this episode, make sure you guys check out the one that we have up on the card right now. This is the first episode that we referenced on this episode talking about religion. So make sure you guys check that out. Hit that like button and subscribe.

If you guys are not subscribed, follow the podcast at MB power project on all over the place. My Instagram is at, I am Andrew Z and SEMA. Where are you at? And comment down below, let us know like what your journey with religion has been or what you are and how you feel about all of this. What have you taken away?

Just let us know. At Seema Yin Yang on Instagram and YouTube. At Seema Yin Yang on TikTok and Twitter. The Discord is down below. So check that out. Ben, where can people find you? I'm on one place on social media. That's Instagram.

You can go to Iron Mile Ben. But you deleted it. I did delete it, but I got it back. I got some back. And so now I'm at a whopping, I actually don't know how many followers I have. Probably around 800.

Yeah, my 15,000 disappeared and we deleted it and never came back. And then they gave me back the handle, but it's whatever. My fitness influence in the world is based on where I'm at locally. I get to influence people in my gym,

which I love. Where's the gym? Sacramento. You come to Iron Mile. You go to Iron Mile Fitness. We got an Instagram there. Go to Iron Mile Fitness. Check out our gym.

Where did the name come from? Anything Fitness. Oh my goodness. All right. We're restarting the podcast. Iron Mile. So in 2012, I competed at regionals

and I was like, man, I'm just not strong enough. And so I went to the strongest dude I know, which is Mark. And I said, man, I, you get stronger. And then we had that conversation. He also gave me a yoke and he said like, here, train with this for a little bit, you know, and some people are more familiar with those because it's strong man now. And, uh, I thought, okay, well it's CrossFit. It's not strong, man. What would they carry? So I'm like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, we do 400 meters. Nobody likes running 400 meters. I'm just gonna carry

this thing for 400 meters. And then I was like was like no I think Jason Kalipa name drop him again and Neil would probably do this thing like for a half a mile they do two laps it's 800 even worse than 400s and then I was like you know what let's just put 100 pounds on here I'll just take this thing a mile and see what happens and because I thought that that would help keep me in the sport you know what I mean and lo and, I don't know if it was that that did it, but it was the mindset that helped. So if you do the Iron Mile, you don't have to be strong for a little bit. You've got to be strong for a really long time.

That's brutal. Any idea how long it took you to do that? The first time, I didn't know it could be done. So you kind of sneak your way into it. You kind of edge your way in and just tippy-toe as you go through it. It was around like 50 minutes, and I think I did it after that punishing yeah i did it after that in 40 we did it again in like 32 minutes the fastest i ever heard was sam briggs she came to sacramento once and she did it in like 28 minutes and she's not even really super strong she's such a good

engine that's what she's called like she's the engine and then we did it one more time with an axle bar so it was still 275 pounds you had to clean and jerk the axle bar so you can get it over onto your back right so you do this you walk 275 pounds for a mile every time you put it down you gotta do three burpees over the object you decide to carry three burpees isn't a ton but it just makes it so you have to think about when you put it down. Right. And when I was carrying the yoke, the yoke is set up about chest high. So you do a burpee and then you've got to kind of like fence hop over it.

We kind of hacked it. We figured out you could just lay yourself over and do like a, a roll, like a, like a gymnastic roll over it. Um, and I just, that never sat well with me.

I created the workout. So I just just say you can't do that you got to jump over the object right you can't flip around the bar so yeah so now the gym's named iron mile and you know just try to do as hard things as often as we can of sanity also don't forget there's a an old video of a real world tactical fucking us up. Ben. Well, Ben actually killed the workout, but it was myself, Ben and Alan thrall. And, uh, Ben killed us all.

That was, I, every dog has his day, brother. If you want to feel better about yourself, we can go grapple. It seems it hasn't forgotten that day. I have not.

He's just waiting, waiting to catch you slipping. That's all. Yeah. I've already slipped. I've already slipped. I've already slipped. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weakness.

Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.