Mark Bell's Power Project - CO2 The Most Overlooked Key to Health & Longevity | CarboGenetics

Episode Date: October 12, 2026

What if one of the most overlooked tools for improving human health is something your body produces every second?In this episode of Mark Bell's Power Project, we sit down with Steven Scott, the founder of CarboGenetics to explore the fascinating role carbon dioxide (CO2) plays in oxygen delivery, blood flow, athletic performance, recovery, and longevity.We dive into the Bohr effect, CO2 tolerance, nasal breathing, and the emerging research surrounding carbon dioxide therapy. We also discuss the potential applications of CO2 for brain health, mitochondrial function, neuropathy, and aging, along with the theories and unanswered questions surrounding these treatments.Could CO2 be one of the most underappreciated pieces of the human performance puzzle?**Topics covered:** CO2 therapy, oxygen delivery, nasal breathing, longevity, mitochondrial health, athletic recovery, brain function, omega-3s, and the science of breathing.Learn more about CarboGenetics: https://carbogenetics.com/*Some therapeutic applications discussed in this episode are experimental and have not been established as safe or effective treatments for the conditions mentioned.*Special perks for our listeners below!🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWER to save 20% off site wide, or code POWERPROJECT to save an additional 5% off your Build a Box Subscription!🩸 Get your BLOODWORK/TRT/PEPTIDES! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com and use code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off Self-Service Labs and Guided Optimization®.🧠 Methylene Blue: Better Focus, Sleep and Mood 🧠 Use Code POWER10 for 10% off!➢https://troscriptions.com?utm_source=affiliate&ut-m_medium=podcast&ut-m_campaign=MarkBel-I_podcastBest 5 Finger Barefoot Shoes! 👟 ➢ https://Peluva.com/PowerProject Code POWERPROJECT15 to save 15% off Peluva Shoes!Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM?si=JZN09-FakTjoJuaW🚨 The Best Red Light Therapy Devices and Blue Blocking Glasses On The Market! 😎➢https://emr-tek.com/Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!👟 BEST LOOKING AND FUNCTIONING BAREFOOT SHOES 🦶➢https://vivobarefoot.com/powerproject

I've been studying CO2 and developed products about 15 years ago with the breathing machine and the in the body suit and whatnot. And it's amazing to me that no one really knows about CO2. It seems like people are usually talking about the opposite. Seems like they're talking about oxygen. Right, about oxygen. A lot. So I just want to get rid of that myth that CO2 is a toxic waste product that we just want to breathe off. So CO2 is kind of that signal to create visadilation.

So it's an open up the vasculature, the blood vessel. So you're going to get more blood flow. So if you think about that, that's like twice as much blood flow to your brain. For my mom especially, she had dementia and her ability to think things, even make coherent sentences. It was like very diminished. And she's been using it for probably a couple years now. And it's like she has like no or very little signs of dementia. Really?

Yeah. Power Project family, today we have a really amazing podcast. Now on this podcast, we have had the habit of getting certain types of information before they get super popular and before they reach a much wider audience. And today, that topic is carbon dioxide. Now, most people look at carbon dioxide as just being a waste product, the thing you blow off, the thing that if you inhale too much of it, it kills you. But what if I told you that if you did levels of carbon dioxide therapy, it could actually remove plaque from your brain. If you're someone who has diabetes, it could restore sensation in certain parts of your body that you don't have anymore. It could be something that improves your mitochondria by inhaling certain amounts of carbon dioxide.

Well, that's what we get into in this podcast today with Stephen Scott. Now, we talked about nasal breathing and all the benefits on the show before, how to improves your carbon dioxide tolerance, but this goes a step further. We talk about suits that allow you to literally bathe in carbon dioxide, a device that allows you to breathe it in at a certain percentage. It gets pretty crazy. And I would hope that you would just be open-minded as you listen to Stephen in this episode. Because the stuff that he's talking about,

he's been doing work with this for the past decade, along with our friend, the guy who created Quest Nutrition, Ron Pena. So I'm not going to keep yapping here. If you want anything that Steve talks about, he provided us a code Power Project. That's going to take $500 off any product on his website. And if you put two of those products together, you'll save $1,000. But that's beside the point. This podcast is going to be something that brings forward an idea that you're not used to.

And we weren't either, but it's definitely useful. He also wrote a book and you can check that out too. further ado, I've been yapping for too long. Let's get on to this podcast episode with Stephen Scott. So we're going to get deep in on CO2 and I think we're going to hear a lot more stuff on CO2 coming up. But I find it interesting. I've heard Mike Fave and Jay, I forget the other guys. Feldman. There we go. I've heard them talk about Omega-3s and their potential I guess to be like rancid or they say preoxidase. Can you maybe explain a little bit of this to us?

Because I saw that you had a video that seemed like it's going in pretty deep. It seems like it's a series that you're going to release with some follow-up information. But what's to the consumer, to people listening that are taking some omega-3s, what are maybe just some things for them to be aware of? Yeah, I guess the more, the less saturated it is. So if you go from like omega-9, fats, they're the least oxidizable. Then if you go down to the omega-6,

they're more oxidizable than the omega-9 fats. And then the omega-3 fats, and there's different kinds of omega-3 fats, but they're the most likely to be oxidized from... They're sensitive, right? They have the double-carbon things and stuff like that. Light and heat can kind of

mess them up, right? Yeah, right, exactly. That's like. So if you have a diet that's very high in omega-6 and omega-3 fats, then you're more likely to get sunburn and whatnot. And and if you think about it most like most fats like the omega-3 fats are usually found in more colder climates because they're more like flexible when you're at when you're at colder temperatures like if you have fish oil and if you put it in your freezer it's still going to be a liquid at at a freezer temperature right and then

and then down from that is omega-6 is they're more more fluid at colder temperatures like maybe like the midwest or canada or something and then more of the saturated fats and the omega-9 fats you'll find like closer to the equator so they're used to more heat and they and they're they're they're solid at room temperature like compared to like the omega-6 like all the omega-6 fats like the seed oils they're going to be liquid at at room temperature essentially it's pretty easy for people to see that you know when they cook their bacon you know that turns into all that liquid fat right yeah and then all that liquid fat a lot of times people use it for other stuff and if you have it sitting there on the counter it turns out and like turns hard, you know, butter is the same way. Right, exactly, yeah. These saturated fats, the saturated fats seem like they can withstand heat. They seem to be a little bit more stable. They can handle light and it doesn't mess them up. What should maybe consumers be aware of though, like when they're, you know, thinking about like their diet?

Do you think that like omega-3 supplementation might not be a good choice? Or do you think just try to find the best type of omega-3s that you can get? I would, I personally stay away from omega-3s. I state more towards saturated fats and... What about maybe in the form of like nuts and stuff like that? Nuts and seeds and I think walnuts have omega-3s. Still, you would... Yeah.

Not necessarily a fan. I mean, some of those nuts, they're higher in vitamin E, which is protective against some of the oxidation of the... As antioxidants, that makes sense. Yeah. But it's generally, like, there have been studies showing there are benefits to omega-3s in some situations, but it's something I need to, it's something I am diving into more.

Like as I'm doing the series, I'm diving more into it and diving into the research. Probably much like a lot of other things. There's a lot of pros and cons. It seems like omega-3s seem like they're studied pretty well enough in terms of like helping with heart disease and stuff like that. But maybe we do need to be a little bit more cautious and careful about the type of fish and the type of omega-3s and a lot kind of stuff. Yeah, the mega-3s, there's also been a lot of kind of stuff. conflicting studies showing like harmful benefits and situations and but also some some good benefits and a lot of people always talk about how it it counterbalances the omega-6 like if you have a good

omega-3 to omega-6 ratio um that's still something i'm not certain about it turns out like pre-oxidase is what they say right yeah what does that mean um and that can like negatively impact your efficiency of the energy in your body right right so yeah with the um with the in the mitochondria the lipid membrane it'll like make it more susceptible to oxidation from the because you have all the electrons going through the electron transport chain and they can

if you don't have efficient mitochondria they can leak off and potentially like cause damage to those lipid membranes of your mitochondria and stuff so interesting yeah I just think it's so interesting to have that counter to omega-3s we hear like creatines really good or hear that omega-3s are really good and then you kind of get that other side of the the other side of the story.

Yeah, I'm not like totally like on one side of the like, like, I'm not just a saturated. I'm overminded to whatever the science says. I'm not like in a certain campers. Some people are certain certain camps no matter what they believe this. Yeah, who knows? Might be moved, right? Before we move on to.

So I'm just curious, your thoughts on like, what do you think could be the negative effects of someone who, let's say they take a lot of omega-3s on a daily basis? because, you know, I think Charles Pollock was a fan of, like, megadosing, omega-3s, the supplement, right? Yeah. So what could... Barry Sears do with the... Yeah.

Yeah. What could the negative effects be? And sorry for the listeners, because, like, this is where people get really frustrated with, like, health information. One place they hear, it's good for you, one place they hear it's bad for you. But, like, you know, this makes me curious, too. So, unfortunately, you're going to come along with us for this ride. So what do you think could be the negative effects on the...

consumer. Yeah, well, if your body has a lot more of these, omega-3 fats stored in your body, it's, they're compared to omega-6 fats, which are very highly oxidizable, like prone to oxidation and damage, the mega-3s are, like, extremely prone to that. So it could potentially over a long period,

like a lot of these studies are short-term, but over the long-term, it could produce a lot of oxidation of the lipid membranes in your, mitochondria and potentially cause reduce your ability to create energy properly. Wow. Okay. Tough pill to swallow.

Get it? More dad jokes. So let's move into CO2 type stuff. I think maybe you can just tell us like how you got so into this because you're not like a doctor or anything like that, but it seems like you know biology pretty well in your explanations of a lot of these things. How did you get into it? Wrote a whole book on it, by the way.

Yeah. Yeah, what's the deal with that? Carbonated body. Well, I wrote the book Because I Well, I've been studying CO2 And developed products about 15 years ago With the breathing machine

And the in the body suit and whatnot And by the way, you like You created the original suit I did yeah CO2 suit. Yep. I'm the original creator of the inhaling product And the body stream,

the suit product. So I've just always been interested in my health. My mom has always had health problems growing up. and I just do a lot of studying and how I can improve my health or do something to help improve her health too and stuff like that. And I just came across CO2 research,

like Gandal Henderson in the 1930s, and Constantine Butteco, he noticed a lot of his chronically ill patients. They tended to breathe faster than normal. And he developed a breathing method where they could, he taught him to slow it down their breathing. And a lot of them overcame like lifelong, like health problems and chronic illnesses and whatnot. And not saying that my products treat chronic illnesses,

but eventually he realized it was the CO2. So then I started diving deep into CO2. And I created my products, and I started having family and friends use it. And they had really amazing benefits from it, and including myself. And then at that time, I didn't know the research as much as I do, now, but it caused me to dive even deeper into the CO2 research. And also, like, today, like,

when I go to, I go to events, like, biohacking events, like, I have a booth there, and, like, no one else is talking about CO2 or has CO2 products. And when I talk to people at these events, no one really knows about CO2 at all. Like, even though it's so fundamental to so many different things physiologically in the body, that it's amazing to me that no one really knows about CO2. even to the state, even at the alternative like health places and stuff like that. Seems like people are usually talking about the opposite. Seems like they're talking about oxygen. Right about oxygen.

And they have these chambers and stuff that people are going into. And from everything I hear about those, sounds like they're great too, you know. So I think there's these different gases and stuff that we breathe in and breathe out. They're obviously tremendously valuable. But I think CO2 has been, you know, originally we didn't think there was use for gasoline. If you believe that. You know, we just thought it was like runoff and they didn't use it for anything.

So same thing here. You know, you kind of think something's like waste. You're like, oh, that's just what we breathe out. But turns out it could have a huge impact. And for us, you know, we're way into this. Like as in Seimo was saying, like you've got to follow along with us because we're way into this for ourselves. Really the selfish endeavors. But, you know, learning about CO2 tolerance, I think has been like a huge, a huge.

a huge pillar for us because the benefits that you get from are so multifactoral and then the benefits that you can share with other people. It's very simple. Like people don't have to try to do all the different things that we might try. And Seema is like absolutely incredible. Like he can do jiu-jitsu matches and barely open his mouth when he's going against someone that's trying to go as hard as they can against him. For me it's just been, you know, do it, you know, do it when you're walking, you know, do it when you're walking, you know, do it when you're even walking a hill do it when you're jogging and then i try to do it like when i'm running i try to like just implement it into wherever i can just nasal breathing you know in and out

of the nose to get that CO2 up and to build up that CO2 tolerance so what are some things that you've seen like when people use some of these strategies like for myself i've noticed that i can work harder and have a lower heart rate than previous. You know, I might, I don't know, produce just a random number, like 100 RPM's on something like that, on something, you know, for a few minutes. And maybe normally my heart rate would be like 150. Well, now I can do it at 140 and I can kind of go...

Yeah. Rather than, you know, breathing heavier, heart rate, a little higher type stuff. Yeah, you talked about walking and exercising and like, backing stuff. I'm kind of curious. Have you tried at nighttime? Like, taping your mouth? Or have you notice? I tape my mouth every night. For a while, I stopped taping my mouth because I'm like, I don't even really know if I needed any more. Because I think it kind of felt like I was, I trained it enough. Yeah, yeah. But then, of course, I'm talking to Ron Penna. He's like, I'll put my Apple Watch or whatever,

aura ring against you. I'm like, all right, don't be such a dick. You know. was Ron inferring that you should put the tape back on? He just, yeah, you know, he can just be super forceful sometimes. He's so, he's always like, after all these years. He's like, he's like, how do you know? How do you know for sure that your mouth's not? He's right. I know.

He's like, even if it's nine minutes, you know, like six minutes, your mouth is so wrong. I'm like, he sold me on it. That's the thing that's annoying about him. He's right about a lot of things almost all the time. Yeah. Yeah, so I've had a lot of athletes improve their CO2 tolerance. So they can, when they're exercising, they can do more intense exercises. Because CO2 is a stimulus to breathe.

So when you have better CO2 tolerance, you're going to breathe less at higher CO2 level. So when you're working out higher, you're working out harder, you're producing more CO2. And that's going to cause you to breathe faster. And if you have better CO2 tolerance, you're going to breathe slower. And it's going to be, so you can breathe nasally, like longer with, with higher outputs. With higher outputs, yeah. It seemed like it just helped me be a little calmer in general.

Like I don't think I was like a real spastic person, but I just think it's taking my demeanor down a bunch. I mean, even when I was benching today, I was doing my reps and I was, you know, I still catch myself going, you know, like breathing out and making a lot of noise sometimes on certain exercises, which I think is totally fine. But for me, I'm actually trying to practice nasal breathing.

I sometimes I just slip into other habits. But when I was bench pressing today, I did a set where I was like kind of, I guess like going a little faster and being a little bit more aggressive with it. And the next set, I'm like, I could do these all the same that I do a lot of other things. I could just breathe in and out of the nose. And it felt great. It's like it, you know, I don't, it didn't like cure anything or anything, but it, I felt less pain in the joints. It just felt, everything just felt smoother. My face was toned down rather than like, you know, making a gnarly face.

Yeah, yeah. For sure. And hunkering down on something. And sometimes we do need that. and we'll talk about that too in a little bit. But I think it's helped me calm my demeanor down a bunch as well. No, I know. I hear that a lot, actually.

Just breathing through when you're not, when you're breathing through your mouth, you're blowing off too much CO2. And that creates more visal constriction in your body. So you're going to get less blood flow, less nutrients to your working muscles. And so you're going to be able to work out harder, like be more efficient with their oxygen. You're going to be more relaxed. And you're going to be able to like, like everything you said, you're going to be able to relax faster and stuff like that between

sets and stuff like that. You know, so the cool thing is like, I think some people that have listened to this podcast for a while, they've heard us talk about nasal breathing and nasal breathing and performance and exercise. But one thing that people don't know about are the, like, you have a device that allows you to breathe in CO2. You have a device that you wear on your body that allows you to have transcutaneous CO2, meaning CO2, you know, enveloping your body while you're sick.

sitting in a suit filled with carbon dioxide. Now, I'm curious on the breathing in carbon dioxide side of things, I think many people are like, you'll probably kill yourself. So what is the, how do people use, and we can pull it up on your website, but what is the benefit of that? And if, you know, taking a higher levels and breathing in more carbon dioxide,

what can that do for somebody? Yeah, well, breathing higher levels of CO2, first of all, it's gonna increase your CO2 tolerance. So as I talked about before, you'll be able to like work out harder like we've been talking about and breathe through the nose. And when you're increasing your CO2 levels, you're creating vasodilation. So let's say I'm working on my bicep. When you're working out, you're creating CO2.

And that's a signal to your body that it needs more nutrients, more oxygen. So CO2 is kind of that signal to create visadilation. So it's going to open up the vasculature, the blood vessel. So you're going to get more blood flow. There's been a lot of studies showing that even in hypoxic areas of your body, it's opening those areas up and you're getting blood flow to those areas. And CO2 is necessary for oxygen to be delivered from the hemoglobin to the cells. So like CO2 is what tells the cells like to hop off the oxygen to hop off the hemoglobin and go into the cells.

And so you could have like, let's say you're hyperventilating, like you're breathing really fast. You're actually going to get more oxygen into your body, but you're going to get less oxygen to your cells. if you hyperventilate without CO2, your fingers start clenching up. Like Wim Hof. Yeah. And then it's, or there's like those traumatic breathing sessions where people are trying to like people scream and they're getting rid of like those therapy things and stuff like that.

And they're hyperventilating also. But my theory is that they're reducing the blood flow to their frontal cortex of their brain. So that's, that area is normally repressing those emotions. So they're able to like release. those emotions by suppressing the blood flow to the frontal cortex of the brain essentially. You know, there's so much that we can talk about. I'm excited about this. But one reason why this is like really exciting for me is when I was younger at asthma. Like when I was playing soccer, I'd be on the field and stuff. And as I got older in my early 20s when I started jujitsu,

like when I get really tough, not even really tired, very quickly into a round, I'd be breathing from the mouth. That's when I read the auction advantage and started applying these things. And Now I'm at a point where like I generally breathe pretty slow Jiu-Jitsu like it takes me a long it takes me a long time to have to breathe through the mouth not that I know your mouth but it takes a lot yeah but I just think about with aging you know what I mean because most people don't really pay much attention to their breathing and as they get older their fitness gets worse their breathing becomes more inefficient when they get sick immediately like let's think about what happened with COVID and the amount of like

breathing issues that people had that were exacerbated because of that yeah what went around. If people can get a hang of this early, they could learn how to improve their CO2 tolerance, have something that can allow them to learn how to handle more CO2. And even like the benefits in terms of like, because a lot of people end up losing, feeling in certain areas just as they get older, it seems to be something that could just like help you age much, much better. Like, you know what I mean? No, 100%. I mean, there's a couple of things. If you look at the Well, regarding asthma, like when you have sufficient CO2 levels, it helps histamine stay bound to mass cells. So like histamine will create like the inflammatory responses and like the mucus and stuff like that.

And CO2 levels, there's been studies showing that when CO2 levels are sufficient, the histamine remains bound to the mass cells, which would affect things like asthma or stuff like that. And also regarding longevity, you guys familiar with the naked mole rat? Tell us about it. Rufus from Kim Possible, but that's it. Right. Well, the naked mole rat, like if you think of like a similar size rodents. That's some clothes on, bro. Right.

They live, they live. Oh, there you go. It's like Mr. Biggelsworth of a mouse. Yeah, they're pretty ugly, yeah. they live about like a similar size rodent to that they live like year and a half to two and a half years whereas the naked mole rats they live in these burrows underground where they they're like their average CO2 levels is like 5 to 10 percent and where our atmospheric CO2 is like 0.05 percent not even not even a fraction of a percent a very a very small fraction of a 1 percent actually.

actually, but they're living in these high CO2 environments. And they're, do you want to guess how long they live for? Shoot. Okay, how long does a normal rat usually live? Yeah, the vet age, a year and a half to two and a half years. Rat, I'd say 12. No, it's higher. Whoa.

20 years. No, higher. What? 30, 40? Like 35 to 40 years. Wow. And they usually just die from a predator. Predator.

Is the reason because of the atmosphere? Is that like the main driver or is it? That's my theory of the main driver of that. But they never, they never get cancer. They don't, they don't even age actually. We talk about aging youthfully. They don't, they don't age like other animals age. What about if they get out of that environment?

If they get out of the environment, they do die faster, like in, in like the laboratory and stuff like that. Right, right. Question. Okay. There's actually I have two questions. So naked mole rats live underground. Like is out of that environment, there's also like more sunlight that they're getting exposed to, which for them they seem to be of like, they seem to like probably not do well with sunlight.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, would that be a factor, I'm assuming for them? I think sunlight's important. Yeah. And they're getting hardly any sunlight. Exactly. So I think the extra CO2 is compensating for the. So Lemberg-O. Joms is living underground.

Right. Okay. Okay. My second question actually would be this. Because for example, when I was wearing your CO2 breathing device, I don't know exactly what it's called, but it causes you to breathe a little bit faster. And what type of adaptation would that cause? Because from the longevity side of things, it seems to make sense to me that if you learn how to become more CO2 tolerant and at rest, your ventilation is lower. Meaning you're breathing less.

You're using less, having less breaths every single day. day. We've had people on the show that are just trying to tell us a story. Right. Yeah. Right. But if you're, you literally, you're working less every single day when you're at rest and when you're exercising and when you're asleep. It seems to me that that would probably be something that would allow you to live longer. I think so. That was Boutaco's whole theory. And he, you guys are familiar with him. Constantine Boteco. So he developed a whole movement around the world about Boteco breathing and breathing slower. And I've had people who have done Boutéco's take a breathing for like 30 plus years and just doing my C2 inhaler like they've had way better

results just from even even the Bucco training they've been able to like breathe slower increase their control pause and stuff like that and um and the control pause by the way guys is like when you inhale exhale have a breath hold yeah and how long you can hold it for you exactly um and within the butteccio stuff like you're not just like continuing to breathe like you build a habit of inhaling exhaling just holding for a period. And then inhaling and exhaling and holding for a period. Because that hold is supposed to be something that helps you improve your carbon dioxide tolerance. So you're taking less breaths per minute, less breaths per day.

And you're getting more oxygen to your cells, getting better blood flow to your tissues, stuff like that, less hypoxia. And as far as like talking about longevity, I just want to make a disclaimer that somewhat theoretical. I mean, there are studies, but none of those have been done with my products or that. So a lot of us, yeah, just. Amen. I think it's good for people to know, okay, it's theoretical, but like a few years down the road when CO2 therapy is like super popular, it's good that people are understanding.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. You, Ron, a lot of you guys have applied this, right? Yeah. Applied this with athletes, applied this with people and seen a benefit. Yeah, exactly. Actually, we with a study with Ron, we, I started with them like a few years ago and been using CO2 with mice and one of some of the mice have like the world record for like I mean I don't know if it's actually a world record but it's like how long they lived yeah for how long they lived yeah has the run totally did that too yeah yeah he told me about like a mouse hotel he had to set up right yeah because all these mouth all these mice were like surviving yeah did it increase their lifespans and these weren't like the cancer mice these were just like

normal mice that you guys had like and cancer too cancer and the cancer yeah they're living like way longer and I'm not I can't remember how long exactly right now but it's it's like exceptional for sure what's what's hypoxia I mean I hear for that word used utilized a lot yeah hypoxia just means less oxygen to the cells and less delivery of oxygen because like hypoxemia is like lack of oxygen that you're breathing in into your like under your red blood cells but hypoxia is actually like the delivery of the oxygen to to the cells and then someone you were mentioning about earlier about when somebody starts breathing kind of in and out of their mouth, let's say, they are getting in more oxygen.

Like it's a good strategy, right? And sometimes it's necessary. Sometimes it's needed. But you also may be getting less oxygen to the cells. Is that the idea? Yeah, exactly. So when you're breathing like that, if you look at your pulse oxymeter, you know, that thing, you go to the doctor, they put it out your finger and it says like...

100? Yeah, 100. 98, 99. So that means you're getting good gas exchange in your lungs. So you're getting oxygen to your red blood cells. But generally that doesn't correlate with oxygen to the tissues. Like we're talking about before, if you're hyperventilating, it'll say 100%, but you're going to start cramping up.

People that are prone to it will get a seizure. Just because they're getting less, not sufficient oxygen to the tissues. Can you explain the bore effect? because I think when one thinks about, well, how are you not getting oxygen to tissues if you're breathing more? Like you're taking more oxygen. Right. And you're exhaling more carbon dioxide. So like, how are you not getting more oxygen to tissues? And it seems very counterintuitive. So can you kind of explain that? So the, um, so CO2. So normally oxygen is bound to the hemoglobin and it will not

be released. And the only thing that releases it besides maybe like like heat and stuff like that is, but the main regulator of it is CO2. So when you produce CO2, it's going to release the oxygen from the hemoglobin in proportion to the amount of CO2 there is. So if you have a, if you're working out one part of your body a lot harder than it. So every part of your body needs oxygen,

so you're always producing CO2. But the areas that are working harder, you're going to produce more CO2. So it's going to, it's going to open the vasculature, the microvascular, you're going to get more blood flow. And those areas are going to get much more oxygen

and release from the human balloon. Got it. If someone is to use your machine for maybe like, let's say a couple months, they just devote some time. They devote, I don't know, five minutes a day to utilizing your machine. What are things they can maybe

expect that would help? And we probably have to mention there's multiple machines. Right. Yeah. Yeah, if you're just talking about the breathing machine, because I also have the transdermal suit and then I also I also have a sauna version too where you're surrounded by infrared panels and you get 100% CO2 because the heat and the moisture from the sauna increases of the absorption of the CO2. But if you're just doing like five or 10 minutes, you're going to get better CO2 tolerance.

So you're going to get those benefits from exercising that you're talking about. You're going to get immediately you're going to get more. So if you're doing like above 3%, you're going to get like 50 to maybe 120 some percent of exercise. extra blood flow to your brain. Of the breathing device. Of the breathing device. Okay. So if you think about that, that's like twice as much blood flow to your brain.

Wow. So like you, like, if you look at like Daniel Amon and guys like him, he always talks about like people that have like these mental disorders like, like as you age, you get less blood flow to your brain. And he's, he always talks about that being like the number one factor is the less blood flow to certain areas of the brain. Well, we know for sure. I mean, we've heard, we've had other guests come on the show and talk about children.

and as a child develops and they're more of a mouth breather, they can have learning issues. Oh yeah, 100%. And that's one of the main reasons why is the lack of blood flow and less. I will say too, like both Mark and myself use the device before the episode. And I'm still feeling like a level of like there's a euphoric feeling, but there's a sharpness feeling to post-using that. So it's like, I don't know if it's totally a placebo right now.

I don't think it's placebo. I doubt it's placebo. I don't think so. But it's, again, it's like that's, that's a simple thing that can be done on a daily basis that can improve blood flow to brain. That's a big deal. It is. I actually, like, at my desk, I have one sitting there all the time.

So, like, let's say during the day I need a good mental boost, like, how you feel now? I just do it. I just do it, like, her five minutes. I actually have a friend. And she, when I go to her place, she, like, her cousin and her cousin and husband, where all they were, like, sitting around the table, we're just, like, past a mask around and like get ahead of CO2 for a little bit and take turns. A little bong rip.

Right. Is there an upper limit to like, because, you know, your device has a percentage setting. But is there, I mean, how often, how much people use this? Because, you know, the athletes that get their hands on this, they're going to go bonkers. You know what I mean? They do. They do. Right. So is there a point where this becomes unsafe?

Because again, initially, when someone thinks about breathing CO2, they think about, right? So can you actually even explain? explain that first. Why is this not going to kill you? Well, first of all, most people think of like CO2 as a toxin. Like it's something, it's just something we breathe off, right? But we actually store in our body 120 liters, like the average person stores 120 liters of CO2 in their body at any time in their bones and their blood is bicarbonate and whatnot. And whereas oxygen, if you think about it, like oxygen, we breathe in oxygen. We utilize whatever oxygen we can utilize. And then we don't store any, even though like we would die without oxygen.

oxygen, we don't store any oxygen in our body because oxygen is very reactive. Oxygen is more of a toxic than CO2, really. Yeah. So you use what you need, what you don't need to breathe it off right away. Whereas CO2, like the amount of oxygen in our exhale is much higher than the amount of CO2 that we have in our exhale. Okay. So I just want to like get rid of that myth that CO2 is a toxic waste product that we just

want to breathe off because it's it's not it does so many things that we need physiologically that um but the um so so so so breathing co2 level like when we exercise we're also producing co2 like the amount you're getting through the machine is sometimes maybe maybe a little higher than you would get through exercise but it's not that much higher so your body already is used to potentially like breathing that much CO2 so it's um so i would say like normally like studied have shown that if you breathe over 10% CO2, you could potentially pass out. Okay. And then going above that, like about 15%, you could, like, I forget what the, I should know

this, but you could potentially die if you do too much. And that's not, it's not necessarily because of too much CO2. It's because of the lack of oxygen exchange in the lungs. So you're basically not getting enough oxygen is the main reason. And your device does not go to like 15%. No, it only goes up at 8.5%. Okay. Yeah, at a safe level.

And you can do that, like, I wouldn't recommend doing it for long periods of time, but you can do it for, like, short intervals. You could go up there for, like, 10, 15, 20 seconds, and then bring it back down and then go back up. But that kind of improves your CO2 tolerance. So you don't need to maintain a certain level. It's just like going sprint intervals. You can, like, work out your body just by doing, like, short periods of time

and then bringing it back down. I think while we were in the gym, you were talking about, like, some of the use of this with elderly people. What have you noticed? but it has been beneficial for them. I mean, it's been huge. Like, for my mom especially, she had, like, onset dementia.

Yeah. And her ability to think things and, like, even make coherent sentences. It was, like, very diminished. And she's been using it for probably a couple years now. And it's like, she has, like, no, no or very little signs of, like, dementia. And really?

Yeah. Just because of blood flow and also removal of the waste products from the brain and stuff like that. You haven't talked about that. Yeah, yeah. Removal of the waste products. Yeah. But yeah, it's one more benefit my mom has received from it is.

So she did the body stream sauna where you sit in it and you're surrounded by the infrared panels. And that's more because it's easier to use than the suit for her. Is that, can we bring a picture of that? I want to get a maybe get a visual that. Do you have that website? Yeah, it's on the web. Carpaginetics.com. Okay.

It's the one on the right. That's cool. Is there infrared panels in that? Yeah. If you scroll down, you can see some picture of the people in there and stuff. and stuff like this is like the wave of the future is like getting in getting in getting these treatments so yeah it kind of looks like that but um and anyways my mom she has severe osteoporosis and so i did a dexas scanner with their last summer in 2025 and it showed like severe osteoporosis

and very low scores t scores and so we so i had her do that the body stream for one year. And she did it like a few times a week. And the body streamed sauna. And so one year later, her markers increased by most of them increased approximately 4 to 5%. Like her bone density, yeah. Which is extremely hard to improve.

Especially at her age. At her age, yeah. Because she has a lot of help. Like I talked about before, she has a lot of health problems. And she has, so her bone density actually increased. And the bone quality increase too, not just the bone density. Like there's a score of like. What's your hypothesis on that?

Yeah. Was she exercising too, by the way, or did you have no? No, she, I mean, she was probably a little more active because. Because of, yeah. Because I act like, yeah. Like my kids, like, we'd go over there and they would notice like, oh my gosh, she's like jumping out of the chair. Whereas before we'd, like, I used to go to her house every, every Friday because my dad

was working part time on Fridays. And I'd have to, I'd have to walk her all around wearing a gate belt, like, just to do anything because she was like prone to fall and whatnot. And now, like, the gatebelt's gone. And she's like, practically hopping out of the chair. I think it has a lot to do with that. But I did have her do some, I bought her a vibrational plate too.

Nice. And she wasn't able to stand on it at first. She would just sit there on the chair and kind of put her feet on it. And I think that helped too, but I think the CO2 really helped a lot. I didn't think about a vibration plate. That's a good idea.

Whatever combination I had it, it seemed to work pretty well. And I think... It's incredible. Yeah, I think part of the reason is the improved blood flow and microvascular to the bone so it's getting more of the nutrients like.

Another thing is that our bones or bones actually store CO2. Like like there was a study in like in 1950s where they store like, I forget how many pounds of CO2 like the bone store, but it was a huge amount of like CO2 the body at the bone store. And like a lot of our bone is made out of it's like carbonated hydroxyaptite. So like when they make bone graft, it's more supple and more like more live like alive or like more like functional is they make carbonated heterodoxy epitite, even like bone graft. So it's well known that CO2 plays a important factor in the bone health and stuff like that. Wow.

Yeah, that's pretty, that's, you know, a side effect that you probably didn't think would happen. No, no, exactly. Bone density would increase. Well, that's why I did it actually. have anything to do with like calcium channels and stuff maybe you think or not really um calcium channel like in what sense i don't know i just i was just thinking like maybe that maybe that's connected in some way maybe the way she absorbs calcium or the way her body uses calcium maybe has changed because of the co2 i'm just i'm just throwing out ideas yeah i mean that's that's a interesting idea because

Like if our blood becomes too acidic or too alkaline, our bones actually is like an acid buffer. So that's a factor also. And then so the CO2 with a better blood flow and macabascularization, it's going to increase the ability of that calcium and nutrients to get to the bones and repair and stuff like that. What are some of the ideas surrounding CO2 and metabolism and CO2? and, well, yeah, let's just stay there.

Metabolism. Yeah, I mean, metabolism, metabolism is the ability of your body to utilize oxygen, essentially. Like, the more energy you can produce, the faster your metabolism is. And so CO2, like part of like, part of the Krebs cycle, we create the electrons from the Krebs cycle. And those electrons go through the electron transport chain. and in order for electrons to go through smoothly through the electron transport chain, you need oxygen at the end of it

after the complex four. So you're making more oxygen more available. So those electrons that are produced from food are able to flow more efficiently to the oxygen. And also within the mitochondria in the electron transport chain, there's a proton gradient. So if you think of like our mitochondria

are kind of like batteries. So you need a separation of charge. The protons are pumped into the intermembrane, mitochondrial membrane. And CO2, in order for that to happen, it's, it requires, for the enzymes to work and function, it needs a very tight pH.

And CO2 is our body's most important pH buffer, through bicarbonate and carbonic acid so it's able to take protons and release them as needed and stuff like that. So when you have sufficient levels of CO2, you have a very high pH buffer so you're able to maintain the proper pH levels for the different complexes and electrons

to move through the complex and maintain that proton gradient because you need that energy is created in the gradient similar to like a battery. So I think if you have low CO2 levels, the body doesn't really have a good way to compensate for that. But when you have high CO2 levels, your body retains more bicarbonate,

which increases your buffering capacity. So if you think about like NAD, NAD plus, everyone's talking about NAD and stuff like that and that we need more NAD. But the thing is that if your mitochondria are not efficient, if there's not oxygen there or if the gradients not maintained properly, all those like so the NADH is going to slow down and it's going to back up in the mitochondria

and it's not going to be recycled back to NADH so if you create through the help of CO2 you could potentially increase that protein gradient and you're going to allow electrons to flow through more efficiently you're going to make more oxygen available at the same time because of CO2

because it's being released from the hemoglobin into the cells so you're making more oxygen availability and so you're getting more of the NADH converted back to NAD plus. And if you think about like a lot of disease states, like cancer, diabetes, the ratio of NADH to NAD plus is skewed more towards the NADH, whereas a healthy cell,

it's more skewed towards the ratio is more skewed to the NAD plus. And so CS are going to help maintain the proper ratio of NAD plus to NADH. So you have enough NADE, you have enough NADE. It's just not, I don't know if you necessarily need to supplement it with it because it's just as you age, your ability to convert it back to the NADH back to NAD plus is severely diminished, which increases, which decreases your ability to produce energy, which is what metabolism is. Some of this is kind of blow in my mind because it makes me think like, man, CO2 has been a huge component the entire time playing in the background. like it's a huge component to fitness and like we can't sometimes we have a hard time kind of defining fitness but it kind of seems like that people that go out and jog and run that they would start to develop a decent level of CO2 tolerance kind of inadvertently as they get better at it

because you see like you see like a runner you know they first get started maybe they are breathing in and out of their mouth but as somebody gets cooking and somebody gets better and better they'll casually be running like a seven-minute mile and just look like they're not exercising at all. And even people like Kipchoga and some other people that they've studied that are the highest level of marathon runner, their body is almost in a state of like non-exercise

while they're running like 13 or 14 miles an hour. It doesn't make any sense. You're like, what the hell? But maybe they've kind of cracked the code. And I'm not saying that they just sit there and practice nasal breathing all day and that they don't run and do all these other things. But man, it's just what a neglected,

what a neglected giant piece of the puzzle, it sounds like. It is. It's, to me, it's one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle. It does so many things. Like, just being our body is, like, main pH buffer, like, the importance of that in the mitochondria and, like, every, like, membrane, like, potential, like, needs CO2 to help maintain that electrical potential and stuff like that.

And then just CO2 is our main, or primary, regulator of like visodilation and oxygen delivery and and I just don't I don't understand how it could just be labeled as just like disregarded as a waste product and that really won't be anymore maybe you'll see to it you know earlier you were talking about um the body having somebody's having a low CO2 environment what would cause that for somebody um usually people with like like a lot of stress that they tend to overbreath and breathe off too much CO2. And they have a just chronically, I guess just being chronically stressed, it's like they're kind of like low level exercising all the time and then they're like.

Yeah. And then you know, sleep apnea probably too. Right, sleep apnea and like just stacks. Right, just stacks. And eventually your CO2 tolerance worsens and you just tend to even a little bit of CO2 is going to make you breathe it off and just get it. it's getting to this negative cycle of like stress and like over breathing and less CO2 and then your body kind of adapts to that gets used to it and then it just a negative cycle

oh i was just going to say you mentioned sleeping yeah yeah in one of these environments or in a in the suit yeah yeah yeah and um what was the impact of that uh the impact of that was for myself and for anyone that's done it is their HRV like HRV is very hard to shift and when I slept in it my HRV almost doubled I mean actually actually over doubled it on some nights and heart rate variability yeah heart rate variability yeah which is

it's very hard to move the needle on that and it's just being in that CO2 environment so that's so that's kind of like I have body to see what that feels like you know yeah yeah I wonder you wake up the next day I mean, you just feel like, did you feel like a million bucks or something? No, I felt great. I, uh, I had my, one of my ex-girlfriends when I first developed it, she, her legs were like literally, like, skinnier. Like, and like the cellulite was like gone after like, after this, after this one night using the product.

Yeah, actually there happens studies where they do transdermal CO2 and it does increase your metabolic rate in those areas. And it, it does people like, there's one. It does warm you up. That's for sure. Yeah, it warms you up. Makes you feel kind of hot. Yeah. So if you do.

sleep in it. You should be in a pretty cool room. Otherwise, it will get too hot in there and you won't feel that good. So, certain in the summertime, if you don't have air conditioning, I wouldn't do it. You wake up in a puddle of a lot. Pretty much. But I also developed a tent where I sleep in it. Yeah, like a lower percentage.

I'm measuring my brain waves. That's not this right here. It's something. No, it's something I'm not selling. Okay. So I'm not sure if it's like a. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I don't know if it's like a good thing to do or not yet, but I'm going to test it out. Your house must look chaotic. Yeah. All these things all over the place. Yeah, I've got like nine. A little TP of CO2 machine. It would be a pretty cool if you could somehow, it's also, it's, it's like feeling like a death trap. But like for the house.

Right. Just to keep the house at a certain percentage of CO2. But that could go. way, that could go wayward. That could go way wrong. And when I do sleep in it, I do, there's like multiple like sensors to make sure that, that it doesn't like, yeah, go above what I wanted to go above. Yeah. Because it could be, I mean, if it does go higher, you're going to breathe faster and you probably wake up, but you don't want, you don't want to take that chance. So take that chance. What's the theory of CO2 potentially having a positive impact on cancer?

Well, I mean, that's, what are you seeing? You know, what, I mean, I mean, I, I mean, I know there's some stuff we can't necessarily share everything, but what are, what are the hypothesis? Like how, how could that be? How is it going to help with cancer potentially? Well, one of the reasons is that in the cancer cell, that the pH is reversed. So a healthy cell, the pH is usually more acidic in the inside, and it's more alkaline on the outside. Whereas a cancer cell is more, it's more alkaline on the inside and more acidic on the outside. And one thing, one theory I have is it's helping to reverse that pH gradient through its buffering capacity. That's one thing.

And then also it's helping to deliver more, like cancer cells are very hypoxic. So CO2 has been shown to reduce hypoxic areas in the body, get more blood flow, improve the microvascularization. And cancer, I know there's like angiogenesis and cancer that gets out of control. and those vessels are very like poor quality, they're very leaky and stuff like that, but when it's done with CO2, it tends to like, through the normal process, it, like, improved microvascularization

is potentially good. I guess, yeah, less hypoxia. Does it change the Warburg effect at all? Like the cancer cells running on glucose or, because I know it's hard to disrupt, right? Yeah, I mean, cancer runs on glucose as well as many other things. but it's using it through glycolysis

because normally when you use glycolysis because you don't have enough, you're not producing enough energy through oxygen, phosphorylation. So I do know that there had been studies done where they have done transdermal CO2 and other things and it has shrunk tumors and like slowed tumor growth

and slowed metastasis and stuff like that. And then I know, I probably, I don't know if I can say anything right now, but. Then just like, be safe on it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I mean, as far as like studies that are currently going on, but, but I think I know.

Let's just say there's some, also I want to mention there's some cool stuff going on that, like, just can't talk about. Right, right. So that's the big thing. It's, that's, you know. But I think, I know maybe Ron and. Dr. John, maybe they might think about it a little bit differently, like I don't know how it's working, but we have,

says it's like a theory of like like, there's a bit study showing that if you put cancer cells in like a good environment, that it will revert to the normal phenotype. And if you put them in a bad, like a more cancer. So I think part of it has to do with the environment and CO2 helps to improve that environment, I think,

because we haven't really talked about it yet, but when you're breathing deeply from a CO2, it creates that diaphragmatic pump. And there's been study showing that deep breathing will increase lymphatic movement 300%, which means more removal waste products from the body. So when you're inhale, it's creating like a vacuum in the thoracic cavity. And it's like pulling lymph fluid. It's pulling the venous blood. So the waste products. So cancer has a very bad environment with a lot of toxins building up. That's why the environment's very acidic. So in the earlier stages, my theory is that it could help by improving that lymphatic

drainage and fluid movement and stuff like that. It could help improve the environment. So you're getting more blood flow and oxygen to that environment, but you're also like removing waste products. I think part of the earlier part of the cancer process is to build up of these waste products and breathing deeply, especially of CO2, which is opening up everything. I think it's going to help improve that environment. And that's not medical advice. It's just like a theory I have. Can we talk about that pump you were mentioning?

Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, can you explain that a bit more? Yeah, so when you inhale, like there's a, you have your thoracic cavity and then you have your diaphragm. And when you inhale it, it creates like a suction, like a vacuum. So it's pulling everything into your towards the center. Yeah. And then when you're exhaling,

it's actually pushing. Like there was a, his guy's name is Stephen Elliott. And he's the one that created coherent breathing, which you guys may have heard of. It's one of the popular breathing methods. Yeah. But he actually measured it.

He called it the Volusava wave. And when you're, when you're exhaling in a certain way, like you're creating this Volsafe wave, which you normally have, like you're, the wave from your heartbeat. But there's an additional wave from your breathing. So it's actually pushing,

pushing everything to the cells and to the, it's almost like a second heart essentially, like through the respiratory system. And what's the difference then not just a deep breath, but that deep breath, but you're inhaling CO2 with a deep breath? Right. And doing CO2, like normally if you're doing like deep breathing,

you're breathing off too much CO2. So if you do that breathing practice and try to move your lymphatic fluid, you're going to blow off too much CO2 which is going to create visa constriction and less oxygen to the cells. So, but we, you're doing it with CO2, you're actually creating visadilation.

So you're opening everything up. You're getting more, you're pushing everything. And you're also like opening everything up. So you're going to get even more oxygen and nutrients to the cells. So you could even like if you're doing it with like a IV therapy or like even supplement, just like breathing some CO2 could potentially like help deliver those nutrients to the cells better. Some athletes are getting into some of the CO2 stuff too. Oh yeah, 100%.

Yeah, I said a bunch of UFC fighters using it, some top UFC fighters. I've had some bodybuilders. I had a bodybuilder. Derek Dogner, I just did an interview with him. He used it a couple years ago. He trained for the Mr. Olympia amateur, and he won the whole all-around thing for that. And he said it made a huge effect on his ability to recover after workouts.

Like, even between sets, he was able to recover faster between sets, like lower his breathing between sets. and you know it's reduction in inflammation and less soreness after workout so he could like yeah he could work out better than the next day and stuff so one thing i want to mention that's kind of really cool about this is like nasal breathing is something that like i've been sharing with the people in this community the stronger human and everyone reports back the same thing because initially if you've never really thought about doing it you do feel a bit of a performance drop because only allowing yourself to breathe through your nose yeah but we've talked about it so it puts a governor on your

workload. But over time, that workload while maintaining that type of breathing increases. Now you're able to do potentially the same amount of work, but people aren't getting as sore from the same workouts that used to being up a lot. Their breathing's more efficient. And if you just think about this over the long haul, if your fitness continues to increase in that way, because it's not just something that you should just do for a few weeks or something that you want to maintain for the rest of your life. If your fitnesses then look through with that lens, now as you progress, you progress, you're everything continues to not beat you up nearly as much. Right, exactly.

Yeah. So it's like an additive effect. Yeah. Which is pretty wild. Yeah, it is pretty wild. And that's what steroids kind of do too. And, uh, but it's, this is that, um, not steroids, obviously, but it's, yeah, it's going to, if you, if you can recover better, you can, you're going to be able to work out better than next workout.

And you're going to progress faster and get a better shape and stuff like that. And I can't help but think, like, how do you collaborate this with, nutrition and or peptides or something like that. Yeah. Well, I think as we age, one of the reasons why we need peptides and more nutrients and stuff like that is because the terrain of our body is less efficient. The microvascular just declined. We have more oxidative stress. We have just such a poor environment in our body compared to when we're younger that we need all these extra things. Whereas CO2, in my opinion, helps to restore the terrain of the body.

like helps to reduce oxidative stress, helps to improve blood flow, helps to increase microvascularization. So just using a little bit, like just our normal diet could be sufficient for most people. They wouldn't need to take all these peptides and even stem cells. Like stem cells in a poor environment are not going to work properly. So if you restore the terrain of your body and reduce oxidative stress, reduce the mitochondrial efficiency, improve blood flow to the cells,

those stem cells are going to work much better than, because a lot of people take stem cells and they don't get good results from that. Yeah, maybe that's why there's such huge difference in people reporting about whether it's like good or some people like, it didn't do anything. Right, right, exactly. You were also mentioning that it's helped people with neuropathy. Oh, yeah, 100%. That's like when people lose feeling in like certain areas. Yeah, usually in the legs.

Yeah, yeah. And that's, yeah, we've, I've done that on several people where they do a transdrumway in their leg. And special people who get the numb tingling type of neuropathy, they'll just after like 10 sessions of doing CO2 on their, on their leg, they'll have much, they'll, they won't pretty much eliminate the feelings that they're having, the numbness. It's important to know, too.

Some people don't have success with it. Right. Some people do not have success with it. Yeah. I think it's always good to point out both sides of the story. Right. But man, there's, I've heard people. when I was down at Bioship, I heard people saying they've had it for like 15, 16 years.

Yeah, right. They've got just numbness in their foot and they were able to get rid of it. It's like holy crap. Yeah, it was pretty amazing just after like 10 sessions too. It's pretty, pretty quick. And the reason why it happens is because of increased blood flow to that. Increased blood flow, improved microvascularization. They've done studies with people of diabetes where it's where they've done, they looked at their legs

and they've actually improved capillary density, improved microvascularization. They're getting more blood flow to those areas, getting more oxygen. Because a lot of people have diabetes. They're getting, their blood is thicker. They're, like, getting more coagulation, and their basement membrane of the capillaries is thickened. And so that seems like the CO2 helps with that to help improve the capillary function and whatnot and get blood flow.

And so CO2 is doing other things, too. Like, in diabetes, you get a lot of, like, glycation of proteins. and the same, like, if you think about it, like hemoglobin, CO2 attaches to bonds, binds to hemoglobin. And it does that to other proteins in the body too, which is protective against glycation potentially. So you could have diabetes, but you won't get some of the negative results of, like,

side effects of diabetes, potentially. Like the neuropathy is just one example of, like, someone with diabetes, they're not getting those negative, side effects of diabetes. Even though they might have still have diabetes, they can use their legs

that are not getting the tingling and numbness and stuff. I'm curious as to why it's, you know, you've been working on this for more than a decade. Obviously, Ron Penn has been putting this to practice with other things too. You guys have been talking back and forth about it, but why is this still seem to be

very in the corner of health, in general? I mean, you don't see this in hospital, to any extent. I just, again, my mind goes directly into the elderly when it comes to many of the things we're talking about here. You mentioned the plaque in the brain being this is benefiting neuropathy and breathlessness and all these things are just like, I know so many people who are in care homes and places like that would benefit massively from stuff like this being around their vicinity. But why has this, why is this still in the corner? You know, that's a, it's a good question.

I don't have an answer for, but that's one reason why I wrote the book is because I go, I see go to events where there's doctors, there's like holistic health practitioners, there's like natural doctors and stuff like that, and no one really knows about it. Even like it doesn't make sense to me. Everyone just thinks of, oh, CO2 is bad and oxygen is good. And I have a, it's just a matter of getting a word. That's why I wrote the book to get the word out there and like have people read it and really try to understand it.

Like I can go to like even, I can have a short conversation with people and tell them about it a little bit, but then it kind of like goes over their head a little bit and they forget about it. And then, which is why I went in more depth in the book. But yeah, I think.

I want to mention, by the way, I was just looking through the chapters of the book. I'm really excited to read it. But like you're attacking this from a bunch of different angles. Yeah, yeah. Like so it's going to be a fun read because it's very in depth on a lot of nuances that we're not going to be able to get it.

into on this show. Right, right. Exactly. Yeah. If you all are interested, just fucking, you go buy the book. Yeah, it's on Amazon, yeah. All right. I think people can maybe be considerate of like, you know, we hear people talk about a carbon footprint. And as you're walking us through all these benefits of CO2, I can't help but think of like, you know, over the years that I've been in different types of shape over the years. And when I was really heavy, I was breathing all over the place, you know and uh that is probably an area of my life where i not only was unhealthier for that period of time but i could have uh you know i'm still dealing with some of that you know what i mean like you don't get to like you don't get to hit like a reset button on it and maybe CO2 can can be a potential

you know reset button on some things but and maybe there's other things that can be helpful right but you still have to figure out a way to get yourself out of that and i'm just thinking in my head like man this is just such great knowledge to know from the time you're young and you think about like how much you breathe and just keeping your damn mouth shut and and trying to get as much nasal breathing as you can i mean you don't have to turn it into a religion or anything crazy but you think about your time on this earth and you're you know breathing in and out of your mouth or or just sitting there with your mouth open well yeah it could be detrimental to your health in a lot of ways and it's It's a simple, to me it sounds like a simple fix.

We're not asking you anything crazy, but just try to make some of that adjustment. And there are people that have, you know, different noses and different palettes. And there's, but you might need to get some, it might be worth getting some medical intervention for people that do have a hard time breathing

or deviated septum or whatever it might be, sleep apnea. This could be, it could be costing your life slowly, you know, over a long period of time. That's, that's kind of what.

I'm putting together from some of the stuff that you're saying. Like, man, I'm thinking of the other side of how dangerous it is. Not to have it. Not to have it. No, that's 100% right. And you're talking about younger people too. And if younger people are mouth breathing, it's going to affect the development of their mouth.

Their airways, their oral cavity, like James Nester talks a lot about this. And so mouth breathing will make your mouth like a lot smaller and like your jaw like more into your neck and stuff like that and like not as developed. And so you're not going to breathe good if. as you get older, if you're not nasal breathing, it's going to affect the development of your nasal passages, your airways, your mouth, and everything like that. And also you're talking about CO2

being always thought about the bad guy, but if you think about CO2 has been villainized in like everything, even in like the world, like CO2 is like, when I flew here today, it was like, it told me how much CO2 I was wasting, like, from my flight. On the app or something? Yeah, when you book your tickets, if you go like on Google flights,

it says like, this flight has lower CO2 or something. But it's like, has been villainized like in the environment but also in her body. And like, but there have been studies showing that there have been people who have like put extra CO2 in their greenhouses. And their plants grow like twice as much as like a regular plant. It's pretty crazy. If you look at the images side by side, they'll have like the same plant in high CO2 environment versus the low CO2 environment. and the one with the higher CO2 environment is like almost double the amount of the. Was the environment different years ago?

I think so, yeah. Thousands of years ago? I think it was probably like. I think they know the oxygen is different, but I never heard anybody talk about the CO2. Yeah, no, CO2 is, I can't remember the exact amounts right now, but it was significantly higher at times. And that's really when, that was during the time period when life really flourished, like the evolution of new species, like the plant. life was insane and like um everything was gigantic yeah yeah you know it just i want to echo you just actually really is interesting um the this concept of becoming more co2 taller because like the

the tools you have on your side are amazing and i'm pumped to like i'm pumped to mess with some of this stuff too but from what people can understand right now is like literally like you just mentioned mark It's as simple as just trying to breathe your nose with a majority of things that you do. And even if you can take that into a performance context, when you do take it into a performance context, if it's something that's new for you, kind of similar to how when I came to ST, I was deadlifting a certain amount, you made some tweaks, I had to work back. I had to become weaker for a period of time before I was able to get stronger. That's what happens with this too.

Like you'll feel a performance dip. It could be sizable. And you could have, there could be things that you need to do for your nasal passages to be able to breathe better. There's going to be a lot of adjustments. It's not going to be like a cup of coffee. But if you can become more CO2 tolerant overall, it just makes everything down the line so much easier. But I think that's one of the reasons why it's not popular because when people think about fitness, they just want to go hard. They want to go faster. It kind of makes me mad when I'm, when I'm practicing it. When I first get warmed up, you know, I'm like warming up. I'm doing stuff

on the bike or doing stuff with running and I'm like practicing it. And then I get a little grumpy because it gets to be like a little bit difficult and I'm like mm-hmm like like damn it like it's but then you're then you're okay like once you once you're warmed up once you're used to it yeah you know you you do adapt to it but it is going to take some time it will and it's gonna be hard my nasal passages have opened up a lot more of evolved like I like when I get a when I get a really bad cold down when I have like a lot of like sinus stuff going on I I can breathe through my nose at nighttime, like I put, I take my mouth even though I have like a super big cold and my nose is running and stuff. And somehow I still manage to breathe through my nose in spite of that.

So whereas before I would never be able to do that. Yeah. And Seema, when do you not mouth breathe? Like for you, like if you're making a decision to like lift a certain weight or lift a certain sandbag or you're trying to do something explosively, you're like, all right, well, I'm just going to like Not have a not nasal breathe? Yeah. Okay. Only two situations. It's on a conditioning side of things where I've chosen that this conditioning workout is going to be one of the ones where like I go literally the hard sets are 100% efforts.

So one thing that I've one thing that you'll notice is like when you have to put a hundred percent effort in something, the mouth will naturally drop open at a certain point. It might not be at the very beginning of that set, but there's going to come a point where it's going to be much easier. for you to maintain that power output if you allow yourself to have oral nasal ventilation. So, right? But in between those sets, my goal is to bring myself back to breathing through my nose so I can recover faster before I have to do the next heart set. So it's very specific sessions that I choose to do that. In a lifting context, it's going to be again, if a weight is a certain amount of like

heavy to a certain point, there's a certain intensity, there's a certain, when I breathe while lifting that load, there's a certain amount that I'm going to have to brace. And that brace will be, you know what I mean? It's going to allow me to, I have to exhale, either growl with my nose, you know, or exhale using my, with my mouth open. And those will typically be the only situations. The last place will be like if I'm rolling against someone, that's very, very, very, very challenging.

Because usually at the beginning of the round, all nasal. But as the round continues and we're going hard, there's going to come a point where my mouth is going to open so I can start moving more air and increase the intensity of it. But my goal typically is not to kind of live there. It's to see, can I bring myself back to a level of control with my back to my nose? I think that's really important for people to understand. We're not trying to just do it all the time, every time, you know, indefinitely. And plus, it takes a long time to get to where you've been messing with it for four, four, five years.

Since like 2017 when I first read the auction advantage. And then we had patching the Q& on a year later. But I do want to add in, though, the benefit that it's brought me is that like when it does come to conditioning work, when it does come to these things, it's like it takes me so much more effort to have to breathe through the mouth, like to have to resort to that. So a conditioning session, even though I might be putting on a lot of watts in the bike, because I'm able to keep it nasal, it's the recovery from it is like so quick. Yeah, we've had a few people on the show talk about breathing and heart rate, how they're able to keep it. They're not necessarily, you know, super related, but they can be. It is, yeah. They can be for sure.

Like if you can teach yourself, I mean, think about teaching yourself to calm down. Like, let's say, like, because he was mentioning sprints, let's say somebody's doing, you know, eight sprints for the day and they're doing eight, like 40 meter sprints or something. That's a lot of work. But imagine that in between those sets, as quickly as you can reasonably do, get yourself back to that nasal breathing. So you're still teaching yourself to be calm. You're trying to teach yourself to be relaxed. We know when you're sprinting, you're trying your best to try to relax when you're doing some of these activities.

So I think it's important for people to know, you know, Brian McKenzie talks about the gears. You have different gears. I think he's got like one through four, one through five. And some gears, you're going to like not, you're not only breathing in and out of your nose because it just isn't feasible for the where your heart rate is. But what you'll learn is that over time, by doing this more and more, you'll do things with like no sweat. you know it's the easiest way to describe it it's like we can get into the science and have all these things that are you know but it it should look like it's effortless almost yeah to a certain degree and almost look you know kind of graceful and look fairly easy for you almost like you're

bored like oh man he must not be working that hard because what we grew up with is the opposite of that we grew up with rocky and we grew up with people making these really determined faces And even now, you know, like an ad, you know, the rock is doing some of his own thing, I think, these days, but like an underarmor ad from the rock or somebody, you know, it's like, it's not compelling, right? It's not compelling if the guy's noses and he's not sweating. And he's just like, he's just training. Right. But no, it's like the rock is going after it. So they got to show him dripping sweat and they show him, you know, his mouth open. It's more, it's more dramatic. And even when you watch a movie and you're, I know you're getting in some acting and stuff, when you see actors, opening your mouth is like a huge it's a huge part of everything if I just sit there and

stare at you it like this is awkward you know but if you say something how am I going to react to it a lot of times just like a slight opening of your mouth or you're you know follow along so it's uh it's everywhere it's in our expression it's in in the way you know the way that we uh kind of coordinate our movement and everything and I think people maybe just haven't thought about this much before. But now it's like, well, we know that you could have some really cool outcomes. If you just give this stuff a try, give this stuff a chance, you know, maybe the first place to start with it is just like in your day. Just try to breathe in and out of your nose throughout the day. And then as time progresses, maybe you try it with some exercises. I love that you have a

machine for it though, too, especially the breathing machine because, you know, sometimes things aren't strong enough. You know, sometimes inputs aren't strong enough. And the end. And the input of training and nasal breathing is strong, but not everybody loves to train. Not everybody will go through, as I mentioned how it kind of makes me mad. Not everybody will want to go through all that, but I wanted to go through that because I understood what it could potentially do for me and what it's doing for me. And so having a machine, having a go-to, having something that you can utilize and you can kind of just use, like people just use it a couple minutes a day is what you were saying, right? Yeah, and you could use it multiple times per day too, like five or

minutes like just five or ten minutes here you see you can get that training effect without like breaking down your body like so like when you exercise you can only do so much per day without like needing to recover but you can do this like a lot a lot more frequently and still do that that training effect and get some of the benefits from it it's like literally you're getting bumps at your desk that's like kind of yeah when I think about the application yeah especially with what we just did before we came onto the show great you can legit have something a CO2 literally that what is it the CO2 inhaler on a desk or whatever. Five minutes, put it away. It's, it's one of those things where, like, you can microdosis tolerance along with, without the device, you know, you can do certain types of

breath holds when you take walks, these things that are part of the boot. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So you can have these things that are additive, but it's like the, the increased, I don't know, the brain plaque thing you talked about, all of those things. It's like, if more and more people can get this into their hands, it's a really big health benefit. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And people after they work out, do intense workouts, they tend to, if they don't have good training, they tend to over breathe, like, hours after. Yeah.

Because they're in a higher sympathetic state and they're over breathing. And if they have good training, they can, like, slow down their breathing after workouts. And also, if they do this, like the suit after workout, it creates such a strong parasympathetic responses can help you get out of that sympathetic state from working out and help you to relax and cool down, recover, recover better. I don't know if we actually really even talked about the benefits of the suit versus what, because I think we've a lot been talking about the inhaler. But like when it comes to the suit, what are some of the benefits one might notice from that?

Well, yeah, well, the benefits are, you're still getting the CO2, so you're getting visalilation, and you're opening up the body, the blood vessels, you're getting more blood flow to your tissues. And so the breathing machine is more used as a training effect. so you're like increasing your CO2 tolerance, you're being able to learn how to breathe your nose for long as it appears at times, but the suit is more, it's just so deeply relaxing.

A lot of people will fall asleep while they're in it. Even like, I could be at a very busy event, and there's like noise all around, people like music and stuff, and like people will be in there for five minutes and they'll fall asleep. And that suit covers your hands? It does cover your hands, yeah.

That's one of my older versions. I have different gloves now, but it's, um, and I've, it's evolved over the, over the years, but it's, that's pretty, pretty much it for the most part, but it does have gloves, you can get your whole hands and then it has a wireless remote control and a wired remote control. So you can like, you can put your arms in by your body and it has a, has, uh, has, uh, something around your wrist, um, to hold it on, but you can like, if you want to add a little more CO2 during the session, like you absorb some of the CO2, you can like just turn it on and it'll add more CO2.

Wow. What's the correlation with heart rate? Have you seen anything or noticed anything? You know, when Seam and I were just using it, you know, it can make you breathe harder, almost like you're exercising. What's the impact on that? Have you checked that before? Yeah, no.

This guy, do you guys know Sam Johnson? I don't. He's like a influencer. He's like a bodybuilder, but he's pretty fit. It looks like a bodybuilder almost. But he uses it and he's noticed that. And also like, Nat Naitam, do you know her? I don't.

Natalie Nied with some popular podcast. She's got a popular podcast too. But, yeah. What's her name? I think it's like Nat N-A-T and the space. It's always hard to figure out people's handles, you know. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

I was on her podcast recently. But then Sam Johnson, he, both of them had told me recently, like, I've heard it before in the past, but they've said that their heart rate has gone down overnight by pretty significantly, just from breathing the CO2. Oh, wow. And what about when someone's using the CO2 mask and they're starting to breathe a little heavier? I mean, I could potentially increase.

It probably, I haven't measured the heart rate doing that, but I think it would probably raise your heart rate a little bit, which is, which is fine. It's just, you're like training. It felt, it felt very mild if, like I didn't even, I didn't track my heart rate. Yeah. But the heavier breathing, it felt, it felt mild.

It was interesting, though, because it felt like, it kind of felt like I jogged around. the block but I didn't move anywhere. You know, it's just literally just breathing. So no muscle fatigue, just breathing a little harder. Yeah, yeah. Question for you about the CO2. When one is using it, you know, we talk about nasal breathing, but increasing that

environment, you're going to ventilate faster. Yeah. Do you want to try to maintain your nasal breathing or do you want to, as you inhale through your nose, do you want to exhale through your mouth when, like, what are your thoughts there? Well, if you're below 3% or recommend keeping your breath slow and breathing through the nose, because below 3%, you could potentially breathe off more CO2 than you're actually taking in, which will be a drop in your body level of CO2. So above 3%, I recommend trying to nasal breathe if you can,

but just is going to help your effect while you're working out and training and stuff like that to train your nasal breathing. but there are times where I like I mouth breathe because I'm going at a high level that I can't tolerate very well and I'll try to breathe through the mouth sometimes and I'm getting, I feel like when I breathe through the mouth my diaphragm can move faster and like a little bit deeper

so I'm getting more of that pumping effect potentially but that's usually at the higher levels of CO2 got it got it where can people find you where can they find your products and learn more about you. Yeah. Well, I'm on Carbogenetics.com and I have an Instagram account, Instagram slash Carbogenetics. And then also the book is on Amazon.com. So great. Thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. A lot of fun. Strength is never weakness.

This week. This week is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.