Mark Bell's Power Project - Dr. Spencer Nadolsky - The Doctor Who Uses Fat Loss Drugs to Reverse Obesity || MBPP Ep. 808

Episode Date: September 26, 2022

In this Podcast Episode, Dr. Spencer Nadolsky, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about Dr. Nadolsky's approach to weight loss for his obese patients. While he understands habits are going to be the big movers, Dr. Nadolsky uses many methods to help, even fat loss drugs. We also got a special guest visit from Russell Pierce. Russell is the producer of The Chris Bell Show podcast and has been on a weight loss journey with the help of Mark and Chris Bell. Russell was able to give us amazing perspective and insight that we truly couldn't' get from anyone else.  Follow Dr. Nadolsky on IG: https://www.instagram.com/drnadolsky/ Follow Russell on IG: https://www.instagram.com/russellbuddy/ Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://www.naboso.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 15% off! ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!! ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject Code POWERPROJECT20 for 20% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements! ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://eatlegendary.com Use Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori! ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep! ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject  ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok  FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en  Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz

You know how some people say like, oh, just, you know, just moderation. You can have a Snickers a day or whatever. Some people, unfortunately, they just can't do moderation. Like it just triggers them to want to eat more and more and more of it. So that's why I utilize medicines to take care of it. It sounds ridiculous sometimes when you hear, you know, someone would be like, well, maybe you're just thirsty. And if you're a big boy, like you're like, dude, I don't want fucking water. Like, no, I want to fucking eat. you're like dude i don't want fucking water like no i want to

fucking eat you're like i want pizza when are they necessary because some people that in the audience that perk their ears they're like oh there's medicine for this there's something there's a way to speed this up right and this is where i just go okay biologically there's probably some signal that's pretty strong in your brain why don't we use a drug that basically blocks that signal? It's hard to over, you know, people are like, well, fruit has fructose in it, so it's going to make you fat. And it's like, nobody's gaining weight from eating fruit, unless I did have one patient today, they couldn't stop eating frozen grapes. I suppose that might count.

Those are delicious. It's good. I know you know a lot of the things that go on metabolically, psychologically with individuals who are obese. Is that actually a choice that people are making? Like what's going on? Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question. There's a lot of people that are like, of course it's a choice, but I would posit this. Most people go through life subconsciously. When it gets to that point, I kind of would be like, well, shit, maybe this person is addicted to the food. You know, you'll see this very staunch evidence-based fitness people be like, there's no such thing as food addiction.

You're just eating too much. And I'm like, have you ever had like Doritos? I'm like, what are you talking about? Hey, we got our boy Russell in the house. Russell. Thank you. Hop on over here, buddy. I've had people say, well, hey, like I've been told you shouldn't be on the church drama team because you're fat.

I think it's hard for people to gain perspective. And you've given me wonderful perspective because we've had so many conversations about it. But like my urges are just they're different than yours. Like I feel appetite in the back of my head. It's like a tingle. It's a drive. It's a drive. Like, you know, you're stressed.

You're stressed. You need to eat. You're stressed. You need to eat. You're stressed. You need to eat. It's broken. How long has it been? You lost about 60 pounds or so and how long has that taken you? Because that's always the question. How long did it take you? I know. I mean, it's been like almost a year and a half. Yeah.

But what I have gained is so much more mobility. So you thought you had time and you really didn't. So to these young people that think it's okay to like glorify obesity and to like normalize it, being obese is not good for your body. Breaks down your joints, shortens your lifespan. Sometimes, yeah, sure. The fight is like, I just don't want to like pig out, eat French fries, whatever. A lot of times it's, oh, you should eat.

That would fix your stress. It's wild. It's insane. And it's a battle that sometimes should eat. That would fix your stress. It's wild. It's insane. And it's a battle that sometimes you don't want to fight. Pat Brodge family, how's it going? I know that we have been talking about being less fat, but at the end of the day, we love to eat and we like

the food we eat to taste good. That's why we partnered with Legendary Tasty Pastries. As I speak to you with a full mouth, these have 20 grams of protein and 5 grams of net carbs per serving. This is the blueberry. This is one of my favorite. Hot fudge is not on the table, but it's also one of my favorite.

But they have tons of different flavors. So on any diet you're trying to do, you can fit this into your diet without going off plan. But, but. Big old but. But. Three buts. It's not nearly as bad as like Oreos. It's actually not bad at all. oreos it's actually not bad at all it's not bad at all it's not bad at all so seriously if you guys haven't gone down the rabbit hole of the legendary tasty pastries you i love doing this because i get an excuse to

eat on mike you have to andrew how can they get it yeah the thing is it's like you'll nail each take perfectly but you'll purposely mess up so you can keep eating more tasty pastries. Yeah, dude. No, but seriously, guys, 180 calories for 20 grams of protein. I dare you to find another protein snack that tastes this good and has macros as good as that. You guys got to head over to eatlegendary.com and check out enter promo code powerproject to save 20% off. Again, eatlegendary.com. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes yeah buddy i'm ready no way i'm ready get

out of here i was on my run this morning and you know i was practicing nasal breathing maybe uh i do practice that a lot. Today I was actually running. I was trying to run faster today, so nasal breathing was out the door pretty quick on today's run. But I was actually practicing heel striking. Ah! I know, right?

Why? Well, just because I don't think anybody knows what you're talking about. Okay, okay. I just think, just because I don't think anybody knows what you're talking about. Okay, okay. I just think like, I don't know, people need to think about, I guess people need to think about their communication sometimes. Like I even promote kind of like to run on your toes. I think it's a good place to start for most people is to run on your forefoot. But basically when you're running, i think truthfully you're just like landing on your foot there's not a great way to describe it other than you're just kind of

landing on your foot because you're trying to absorb the crash each time by just landing with as much of your much of your foot as you could yeah we're not and and so like if i say heel striking it just like click baity i guess but But I'm not intentionally trying to slam my heel into the ground. What I was working on is my stride is kind of short. I've talked about this before. I'm trying to open up that stride length a little bit. And if you open up the stride length a little bit, one of the quickest ways to get there is just to kind of slightly land on the heel and then roll some of that energy to the forefoot. So that's what I was working on this morning. was just felt different i just i felt way faster it felt really good i don't know like you know if i do it for a long time i don't know

what the how that will feel but i do think that when you're running when you're lifting why not try a rounded back deadlift why not try a stiff leg deadlift where your back is totally flat? Why not just try these different things and move in some different positions? To ask a question, to add a potential asterisk to it, when you were doing the heel striking, you weren't doing those in the vivos, right? Correct, yeah. Yeah, because I was thinking like some of the rest – I got a spongy shoe. I was wearing an ultra and it's the springy one.

Yeah. And so it's made for that. Because I remember when I went on the run with you, I was wearing those same Ultras. And as my endurance started to go and as I got a little bit, let's say, just like lax with my gait because I was tired, there started being a few times I was heel striking. But I was like, oh, I don't feel that pressure because that shoe gave me enough padding to strike safely. So if you guys want to try that and you're using the Vivo trail runners or whatever, you just got to be careful about how hard you strike the ground because if you strike

your ground in actual barefoot shoes, like heel strike it, you'll feel that. Oh, yeah. 100%. And I'm not sticking my foot way out and then just smashing my heel because I would – energy would kind of go up into the knee and all that kind of stuff. But I've been following a bunch of different people and just checking out different styles of running. And one guy was like, hey, you can kind of heel strike and here's how you kind of do it. So I was like, let me just play with that. Let me see.

Like because – I don't know. You just get caught in these like limiting beliefs. You have people your whole life tell you you can't do something. You don't know, you just get caught in these, like, limiting beliefs. You have people your whole life tell you you can't do something. You don't think you can do it. There's that story of the elephant, you know, an elephant's little, the circus elephant. Like, it's just tied to the circus tent. And obviously, you could pull away from it at any time. But as it gets older, it doesn't realize that it has the power just to fucking pull away from that thing.

Yeah. Not that I've been, like, the most athletic person in the room but like when i was the most athletic i didn't even know that you could toe land on your toes when i remember you saying that yeah i only heel striked my entire life through all sports through everything i ever did and then now that i'm jacked up i'm trying to land on my toes and you know it's just it's a new stimulus so my calves and my knees and everything's super sore from our run like five days ago yeah i'm sorry i didn't text you back i was in the middle but yeah like but my legs are still sore but um i'm just trying to figure it out period so you know i'm just interested to hear what you discover in regards to yeah and that's all it is it's just

discover it's just like messing around you know that's all it is i'm not like advocating like hey man i think that you should really strike your heel when you're running. Definitely not saying that. I'm just saying, hey, play around with it. Find out for yourself. And some of these guys and girls that are heavy, people that are real heavy, you always hear people say not to run. But it's like, how does anybody know but you? Like, go try it.

like go try it you know like it obviously if you have a condition if you have diabetes and you have issues with your feet then by all means be cautious be careful but if you don't think that you have anything like that and you feel up just to do something a little bit more than a walk and get a little air underneath your body that's a fucking jog yeah that's a little bit more than you know anyway excited to have today's guest on. We got Dr. Nadolski on today. Did I get that right eventually? And he works with, you know, a lot of people that I think when people are talking about diet in the fitness space, there's all this like infighting about, you know, the carnivore diet versus the paleo diet versus a vegan diet. And it's all this like little precise stuff. And it's like, oh, that guy's not carnivore because he eats fruit.

And that guy's, I can't believe Mark eats rice sometimes. Like, holy fuck, man. Hardcore carnivore has sugar in it.'s not carnivore seasoning right and then you got the keto group and you have uh the fasting people and we got all these different people that are nitpicking these diets uh but dr nidol why am i having such a hard time saying spencer spencer nidolski uh is uh he works with a lot of people that are very heavy. And I think that it's a community that needs to be served and it's a community that probably needs recommendations and information probably given to them in a different way because they're just in a different position. Like I talk often about being big and being 330 and I was obese by all measures, by whatever, you know, you measure my stomach, measure my body weight, all these different things. But I was also a lifter and I was also somebody that I was never the fat kid you know i was never like i was a bigger kid but i don't know what it feels like to be the fat kid in seventh grade or fifth grade i don't know what it's like to be like picked on

on the bus and made fun of and to be under the scrutiny that a lot of big people face i mean imagine uh being someone like our friend russell and grocery store, like everything, everything's a fucking, everything is something, right? Everything is like, you probably feel like people are just staring at you 24 seven. If you go to the grocery store, you probably think, man, people are going to be really, I don't know about you guys, but like when, even when I go, I'm thinking like people are probably going to be kind of judgy on like what I get. You know, if you, if you roll through and you're, it's a cheat day and you get a bunch of ice cream and shit, you're kind of like, you know, I don't know. It's a little awkward exchange at the, at the checkout, you know,

you're like, ah, this isn't all for me. Yeah. Do you ever get the, like, you can eat that? Oh yeah. Yeah. And I'm always like, nah, this is for my wife. So I went to In-N-Out as I i normally do so that's not a big shock but actually somebody had recognized me and like there i am carrying like four or five boxes you know i was like three but i was just like oh fuck you know and then bag full of fries and i was like ah you know my son he eats two flying dutchmen now you know he's like holy shit so that was like a celebration but at the same time I was thinking like, Oh, this looks pretty bad.

I had, I had 11 boxes of pizza. I was in Sebastopol, Sebastopol, California. And, uh, I was picking up pizza on my way back from a gym to like go bring to like my

family. I'm like juggling it. And I'm like trying to open the Tesla at the same time. And someone's like, yo, smell it. family i'm like juggling it and i'm like trying to open the tesla at the same time and someone's like yo smelly and i'm like uh and i'm like these aren't for me like no i get that all the time whoever this smelly guy and the guy's like let's take a picture let me put a pizza away all right let's let the doctor in he's's been patiently waiting. Let's go. My words are all fucked up today. I was running too fast.

Did you have mushrooms this morning? I had a little bit of kratom. That'll straighten you out. My man's hair is just looking good. What's up? Where the hell have you guys been? And Seema's fucking around over here. Nice. You're blaming on somebody

it's all my fault blame the black guy right yeah great to have you on the show this morning really appreciate it thanks man yeah if you couldn't get out there to LA

I'm over here in the sticks in North Carolina so with a new baby so congrats three kids makes it tough yeah oh shit fuck yeah we're in uh sacramento we're we're uh north of okay somewhere in somewhere in california i was in san diego for a while so i could have made it uh at some point over a year ago but not anymore i love uh i love the message that you put out. I really appreciate like a lot of people

that are just really just trying to simplify, right? Like there's so much confused people get, people want to kind of make a lot of this out to be way more complicated than it needs to be a lot of times. But I guess sometimes it does get complicated because there is so much conflicting information. And when we're talking to particular groups, there might be different messages. Like someone who's just starting a fitness routine or just starting a journey on having a nutrition intervention. That might look totally different than someone who's preparing for a bodybuilding show or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, most people are just they have some semblance of what to do, but they get so confused over all the different mixed messages, carbs, fat.

Is it hormones, calories, all these different things to where and because it's so hard and they failed so often or didn't respond, I should say, they just get desperate. respond, I should say, they just get desperate. They're in a lot of pain, you know, so they'll do anything and just listen to anybody that can hopefully get them results. So simplifying the message, just sticking to the scientific principles of what we know, I think is the best bet. And then beyond there, there are certain strategies that help you stick to those principles that may be kind of funky, but at least if you understand the principles, it makes it easier. Well, one thing I'm kind of curious about is we had Dan Garner here yesterday, and one of his big things that he was talking about when it comes to when he deals with individuals and, oh, you can't hear?

Oh, he can't hear me, Andrew. Huh. Yeah, hold on. You should be able to hear him in a second i guess can you hear any of us can you hear me you hear me hear what i'm saying i can't hear you now oh okay i can't hear he can you hear me we can hear you we can hear you i could hear you just in the beginning okay yeah literally Yeah, literally nothing changed. But now all of a sudden. I think Andrew hit that weird button. I wasn't touching anything.

No, you weren't? No, I don't think so. Yeah, you were touching yourself, I bet. I was like, his hands look kind of oily over there. Can you hear me now? Suspicious. We can still hear you. We can hear you.

We can hear you. What happened with the mic and the headphones? It's supposed to be all professional here. Was that a fake microphone? It might have just switched if you, like, checked the microphone setting. Oh, like Bluetooth some shit? Yeah. Because the mic sounded good.

It did sound really good. Does it sound bad now? Yeah, kind of Yeah, because the mic sounded good. It did sound really good. Really? Does it sound bad now? Yeah, kind of. It sounded better. It's better with the mic. Yeah, we got time. You can...

Yeah, there's no rush. This is all editable. We got time, but he's a fucking doctor. That's true. He does have a hard out. Yeah. What time do you have to be out by? Nah, he's...

2.45, is that all right? Yeah, yeah, we're good. Okay. I don't know what 2.45 California is. It doesn't matter. We'll put them on. Oh, you know why? Okay, hold on one second. Gotta close those windows, bro.

What you watching over there? It might have been something about this. Something about Mary. The speaker is going through um the microphone oh there you go the speaker goes through this i don't know what happened but if it happens again it has it must have to do with the headphones not you sound great so we're good yeah thanks all right cool sorry what were you saying buddy you can hear us now okay cool now i can hear you um we had dan garner on the podcast yesterday and uh dan works with a lot of like very uh a higher caliber of athletes like very prominent

individuals right but his big thing is he gets saliva blood blood work, a stool test. What else? Yeah, a lot of blood. A lot of blood work. Semen. Potentially semen. But he was really adamant that people really need to get stool tests to see what might be going on in their gut. And I was curious how much importance you put upon that because when I look at your content,

it's like a big aspect of it is, you know, being a caloric deficit, be consistent over time. It's like the big, simple things, right? But along with that, because that's obviously necessary, how big of an importance do you put on gut health and potentially people getting a stool test to see what's going on? These things are important. However, how are they going to change our management what what what outcome from one of these tests is going to change what we do will it predict how someone will respond i think that's the biggest thing and honestly honestly if i'm going to bet a hundred thousand dollars or whatever high amount of money right now i would bet the farm that there is no

test right now that's going to change our outcome in terms of this whole precision nutrition or precision medicine thing right now that's going on. So you see these people promoting stool tests and I've never seen any study or any difference clinically to where this is going to change what I do. So like, for example, some people will say, Hey, I always joke about a DNA test. I joke about DNA tests. Hey, based on your DNA, you should be eating like this. So I always say based on your, your DNA,

you should be eating a calorie deficit. You should probably be eating something that keeps you fuller for longer and nothing about the DNA tests or as far as I can see in these stool tests, change what we do so i i do think it's possible though in the future based on some of these things um we will be able to modify but i just don't think we're there yet um in terms of sensitivity and understanding with these tests i think a big uh big factor, man, if you're 40, 50, 60 pounds overweight, uh, we don't need to go, we don't need to go through your poop

to find out what's going on. Like if you're 40, 50, 60 pounds overweight, you're in a compromising spot, you're in a bad position. We know we all have friends that I continually say like, I'm starting on Monday and I'm going to, you know, get into this caloric deficit. I'm going to do all these things. And they're well-meaning and they really do care and they are training. Like, I have a lot of friends that are training and putting in a good effort. But the effort that they try to, the thing that they try to put themselves into is a little too hard. And then three or four days later, they end up binging

or five days later or seven days later. And it's hard for them to see because they're like, man, I'm working so hard. I'm doing, they'll say I'm doing everything, but I can't seem to lose a pound. And it's like, you are doing a lot. Like you're, you're fucking going all out, but maybe that's the problem. So maybe let's, let's see if you can put your diet at like a seven out of 10 and let's just do that for a really fucking long time. Imagine if we did that for 20 days, which doesn't seem like a long time, but for someone to make it 20 days without a cheat is a miracle for some people. Yeah. I think that that's just promoting this idea of consistency is better than perfection. And I think it's, I think that's great coaching right there. Well, on that note, when it does come to

end of it, because a lot of people, when they do start a diet, um, or they start any type of new protocol, if there is a time where like, let's say one night they choose to have a dessert, they beat themselves up or they make a bit of mistake. They beat themselves up. They're all or nothing. Right. And we know how this mindset can stop an individual from just getting back on the next day, being consistent. They'll continue to make mistakes, but patience and consistency, they'll get to that goal. Now, you've probably dealt with a lot of people who have that all or nothing mentality when it does come to their diet. How do you handle them? How do you help them understand that it's not about being 100% all the time? Yeah. The analogy that I use, there's a few analogies.

So it would be like you're in grade school or whatever, and you get a C or a D on one quiz. And it's like, well, you know, you still have the rest of the homework and tests and other quizzes to get a B or even an A at some point. One little thing isn't going to make or break your overall goals. Now, the other analogy would be like, let's say you pop one tire on your car and it would be like, yeah, just let's just pop the rest of them because like, let's just go, let's go stab them with a screwdriver, you know, whatever. It's a similar analogy. And it takes a long time for people to understand that.

I mean, I think we all do it in other situations as well. I'm just trying to think of different things. It's like, whatever. I might as well. I had one beer. Why not just have a few more? Who cares? Alcohol, any other substances.

You screwed up once well i might as well just go with it um and kind of explaining these principles of just overall like average consistency it matters most one little blip above your calorie balance or energy balance doesn't really matter average it out over a week and there you go so that's generally what i do i do i utilize a lot of medicines for weight loss though and so if there's this recurrent theme of like they just can't stop themselves from eating whatever desserts at night and it's not conducive to them being able to lose weight you know how some people say like oh just you know just moderation you can have a Snickers a day or whatever. Some people, unfortunately, just, they just can't do moderation. Like it just triggers them to want to eat more and more and more of it. So that's

why I utilize medicines to take care of it. But from a mindset standpoint, getting people not to beat themselves up after one little thing is, um, it's, it's hard to do, but it's doable. How much, uh, like, uh I guess, communication do you have to have with somebody to be able to help them through this? Because it seems like it would take an enormous amount of communication. Like, hey, you did the same thing last week. When you do mess up, let's see if we can get back on track. Does that take a long time to work on that? Yeah, it does. And it can be, it can burn out the coach or the physician or whoever's, you know, dietitian, whoever's

implementing the plan or habits. And sometimes it takes months to just change the angle of how you're sending the message, really get them to open up about it and talk about it. It's not an easy fix for sure. It sounds ridiculous sometimes when you hear someone will be like, well, maybe you're just thirsty. And if you're a big boy, you're like, dude, I don't want fucking water. I want to fucking eat. You're like, I want pizza. Yeah. I don't think I've ever confused my hunger and thirst.

I think that's a myth that's been around for a long time. it's a different level, right? But when you're trying to implement habits and you continue messing up, in what cases do some of these medicines, and actually, if you can explain to us kind of what medication you're actually talking about, when are they necessary? Because some people that in the audience that perk their ears, they're like, Ooh, there's medicine for this. There's something, there's a way to speed this up. Right. But when is it necessary? And when do you think, okay, no, you don't need medication, you need better habits? Yeah. So it's interesting with obesity, there can be some derangements in appetite and cravings in the reward center. So we know people need a calorie deficit. I'm not even arguing that. I'll never argue that. It's energy balance, whatever. There's satiety signals and reward signals, craving signals that the brain sends out.

And some people are wired differently. So when you put somebody on a plan, now, of course, we could throw somebody on an island where they have to go fish for themselves and go gather whatever nuts and berries. I don't know, whatever there is on an island. Their weight will reduce. There's no way around it. But in this current environment, what we're surrounded with, you go to the conference room in your office or whatever, the break room, and there's donuts everywhere. And you're like, no, I'm trying to lose weight.

There's only so long most people will be able to just say no, but it's constantly thrown in our face. You walk down, you could walk to work, you walk back home from work to try to be healthy. And then all of a sudden you're seeing whatever fast food, McDonald's, I don't care, whatever it is. So these signals in our brain, especially when you try to lose weight, they're strong. Those are kind of what derail people. derail people. So I'd say in pretty much the cases where people have just lost and regained the same, you know, whatever it is, 30 to 50 pounds. And you guys probably see this often, you know, people come to you. Yeah, I tried X, Y, Z diet and lost some weight. Can you help me do it again?

And they'll, they'll do it. A lot of these people will just continue on this spiral of losing and regaining that same 20, 50, 100 pounds even sometimes that I see. And this is where I just go, okay, biologically, there's probably some signal that's pretty strong in your brain. Why don't we use a drug that basically blocks that signal or lessens, attenuates that signal? And these are the new drugs that are out of these GLP-1 medicines. I don't know if you've heard of these, glcagon-like peptide one, extremely powerful medicines. These past couple of years have really revolutionized weight loss medicine or obesity treatment because now we're starting to get to the point where we're getting bariatric surgery level-like results in a weekly injection. Yeah, it's insane.

This newest one is called Terzepatide. Wow. gets somewhere around 21% weight loss. Now, comparing that to like a lap band, which people don't get lap bands anymore, but that's just as good, if not better than that. Gastric sleeve is one of the bariatric surgeries, you know, somewhere around 25 or so percent. Gastric bypass around 30 or so percent. So we're starting to get to this level. And when you start people on these medicines, what they'll describe is that like, holy cow, I can do this now. So when you're talking about these habits, they're like, I know what I need to do. I know what I need to do. And talk about simplifying the message. They know they probably shouldn't be eating all the donuts in

the break room. They know they shouldn't be stopping at fast food on the way home. With this medicine, what they always describe is that I didn't have to have the donuts. I was able to have my whatever chicken, I'm not going to say chicken breast and broccoli, but whatever, their meat and vegetable or whatever it was. And they just don't even feel, they feel satiated from it. They don't have that craving, strong craving, and they just feel, they describe, they, they feel like they should feel is what they say. And they didn't know what normal felt until they use this medicine. So that's kind of the cases.

Um, you'll see that there will be a lot of people, not a lot. I'll say there will be people that are successful without medicines or surgery or whatever. But I try to take the stigma away from using these tools because why not use these tools as technology improves as long as they're safe, of course. So that's pretty much how they work. In your opinion, can people just – can they kind of smash lean protein and fill themselves up a bit and maybe dampen some hunger signals and things like that? Do you feel that that's anything that you've seen work for people? Yeah. So if they're not, I mean, of course, if they're going the drug route, they're able to start eating the lean protein and that type of stuff.

But if we're trying to use without medicine, it's hard to overeat a lean protein, right? Like, you know, I always get into it with the keto people online. It's just fun. I don't get into it with the vegans. The vegans are vicious. They'll just, like, so I don't mess around. They're like, oh, you want to kill innocent animals? I'm like, okay, I don't want to.

Just please leave me alone. So I stick with just messing with the keto people. So I can overeat ribeyes, like put some butter on it, put a ribeye. I mean, it's pretty good. Take like a top sirloin, you know, without butter on it. A little salt on it, of course. But like it's hard to overeat that. It's not as pleasurable, but it's filling, you know.

You get to a point where you're like, fuck. Yeah. Probably the best one. Like it's really hard for me to overeat salmon or some sort of fish. It's not as palatable as like a beef or maybe even chicken. But yeah, these types of things are filling. You know, there's actually, there's controversy. You know, I see the scientists go back and forth about these studies looking at different

macronutrients. I'm sure you guys have talked about this before, but whether protein is the most satiating. But like I tell you what, you know, of course, you're drinking whey protein. You're not going to have much of a difference compared to maybe some other types of smoothies that's mostly carbs from like fruit or something like that. In fact, the fruit might be more filling because it's more fiber. But lean, like meat, animal-based protein, I don't know. I think they need to do more studies on that and compare because for me and for patients, it's really hard to overeat that stuff. So I have a question because we had Alan Aragon on a while ago and he's, multiple people, including

Lane, some of them have mentioned how protein, even if one tends to overeat protein, and you also see this, oddly enough, in bodybuilders when they're kind of getting stagely. I don't want to bring bodybuilders into this because it's a very different population. But when bodybuilders are starting to get leaner, they start to really drive up their protein intake to could be 250, 300, 350 grams. But for some reason, there doesn't seem to be fat gain or weight gain, especially when it's like in the absence of extra fat. So very lean sources of protein. They tend to be able to overeat protein, have a potentially same or slightly increased caloric amount, but they continue to trend down as far as fat loss is concerned. And there have been certain

things that we've said like, oh, maybe protein doesn't count like all the other macronutrients. Is that a safe statement to make? Or is that just like blasphemer? It's calories in, calories out. or is that just like blasphemer? It's calories in, calories out. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a good, it's, so when people are saying, you know, a calorie is a calorie,

well, okay, it's a unit of energy. But when people say a calorie is not a calorie, what they should probably be saying is a macronutrient is not a macronutrient. These things are metabolized and utilized just differently in our body. And it's hard to take protein and convert it into, you know, triglyceride or adipose. It's's hard to take protein and convert it into you know triglyceride or adipose it's it's it's really hard to do that so hypothetically when you when you start looking

at these overfeeding studies when people people start overeating protein and they gain they can gain weight but it's like lean mass you know so it's it's it's hard they've they've tried to look at it it's it doesn't easily convert to adipose now i think probably alan he's a good buddy of mine so is lane so i'm sure they described though like but if you're kind of like alcohol if you're it's actually hard to store alcohol as as fat but like it will it will cause you to store other things that you eat with it as fat. So it's possible eating more protein. If you just start eating more protein along with the fat that you already have in your diet,

it's possible then that you'd store more of that fat as fat. These are kind of like hypothetical things. But as a general rule of thumb, it's hard to store protein as adipose. That's the idea. to store protein as adipose. That's the idea. It kind of seems like if you were to eat like 30 or 40 grams of protein from a fairly lean source, like a chicken breast, or maybe even like a chicken thigh, get a little more fat in there and eat something like an apple that it would really, again, calm your hunger. And that's something that we promote and talk about quite a bit on the show is like for people that are heavy.

We like fasting and stuff like that, too. But that's we we enjoy it for us, you know, and we and we'll promote it out to people that have already had some success in their diet. They're already familiar with the correct foods to eat. I think for some other people, it might not be the greatest place to start. other people, it might not be the greatest place to start. But I think for most people that are heavy, the best thing for them to do is to really concentrate on not allowing themselves to get too hungry. Because when you get hungry, you get to be out of control. And we've all been grocery shopping before when you're starving and you look at that shopping cart on the way out and you're like, Jesus, I bought a lot of bullshit today.

Yeah. You know, I actually like chicken thighs more than chicken breasts. I'm kind of with you. Yeah, the chicken breasts are tough. Yeah, the chicken thighs, they're not that fatty. I mean, if you get the ones that are relatively skin off and everything and they just taste so much better. So it's like, just get the chicken thighs unless you're just like prepping for a bodybuilding contest and you need to be like extremely lean um which is you know most of my patients they're

not needing to do that some people might actually like the chicken breast more i don't i like chicken thighs but anyway yeah i think focusing on foods that are absolutely filling and more satiating is a great place to start. So just – it's hard to over – people are like, well, fruit has fructose in it, so it's going to make you fat. It's like nobody's gaining weight from eating fruit unless I did have one patient say they couldn't stop eating frozen grapes. I suppose that might count if you can – Those are delicious. It's good. I was just just thinking too watermelon is really good i love eating like a giant like yeah we get watermelon all the time i eat like a fucking giant bowl of it i've done that the past two nights it's so nice when it's like in season

and everything yeah a carton of like strawberries is like 150 calories. I mean, just eat the carton. I mean, whatever. It's a lot of fiber, a lot of good stuff there. So yeah, I think being in this environment and you just – sure, you know you should probably eat this fruit-filling foods. Sometimes it's just hard. So I agree. If you can make sure that you have it, make it tasty enough to where you want it a little bit we know it's not going to be as good as a donut per se but if you can if you can focus and try to eat that first and then say do i want that donut now that's probably

a better bet than um just wait until you're super hungry and then choosing the the other foods over the donut when it comes to the fruit um it's funny because we've we've had some carnivores come on the show uh we had we had somebody come on and um mentioned how can't eat peaches because you'll just go to she'll go to down the deep end if she eats too many peaches right and some yeah yeah but but what i'm curious about is like what are people getting wrong about about their messaging when it comes to fruit because some people are especially some people within carnivore are very anti-fruit um because they say it can spark people's appetite they'll tend to overeat on fruit and you just

don't really see that in application is there a concern because you know fructose uh can potentially you know be bad for the liver, I guess. Yeah. You'd have to eat a lot of fruit. There should be studies on this. Whenever they look at whether fructose is harmful for the liver, you have to give loads of it. And it has to be pretty much pure fructose. And it has a hypothetical risk due to how it's metabolized. But really, it still comes down to energy balance. So like you'd have to eat a ton of fruit to potentially hypothetically harm your liver.

And even still, if you're in a calorie deficit and you're losing weight, you're probably going to start getting rid of the liver fat if you have some liver fat. So it would be really hard to overeat on fruit. But like my patient who said they couldn't stop eating frozen grapes, it would be really interesting to go, all right, well, let's see what happens to your liver. You can do it. You can do these imaging tests and kind of detect how much liver fat. But in general, it's just really hard to overeat on fruit. And people say, well, because of the fiber, it might fill you up. And then also remember fruit, it's not pure fructose. It's a combination of glucose and fructose. And the glucose really isn't the issue here for this hypothetical risk of fructose induced fatty liver disease. There's some people that are just like, you need to avoid fruit like

the plague because any little fructose is going to be harmful and that's just it's just not true it doesn't happen in the study so um i would say that if somebody feels that they're like that fruit is the issue i want to see the rest of their diet i'd be like hey if fruit's your issue man you must have a very nice looking diet like it has to be like what else are you eating i don't know it's when we start to blend things together where you can start to see where maybe it's problematic you know if you are making a fruit bowl and you have yogurt and some other things again like that's still going to be hard to make be like quote unquote bad for you at an overeat but yeah you can make yeah you can make a giant bowl and it could have you know 400 grams of carbs and it could have 20 or 30 fat. It could add up fast.

So it's a combination of stuff that we got to probably just – I don't know. We got to just use common sense around that. Yeah. Yeah, just use – I mean peaches is interesting. I mean if you have the canned peaches that are soaked in high-pitched corn syrup and you're just drinking that afterwards. I mean I don't know. Yeah, those are fucking delicious.

You're probably a fan, though, of using like probably in any and all methods, right? Like you probably aren't really necessarily – like if you find somebody that primarily a meat diet is working really well for them, you'll probably just roll with that. I think that's the way that you go, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, so people will say like, you're just a keto basher.

I can't believe you hate something that can be so therapeutic. You hate carnivore even though this has helped me. And the truth is like I have patients that are carnivores. I kind of monitor them, make sure they're getting enough nutrients maybe if they need to take a vitamin to make sure they're getting enough vitamin c or whatever uh just to make sure they're not getting scurvy but like i'm not one of these people that like okay so here's the example someone was making the argument that meat is unhealthy is overall unhealthy and i said what do you mean by unhealthy? Like there's a spectrum though. What are we comparing it to? And then we have to know what outcome we're looking at. If you're just saying unhealthy, what does healthy even mean? So, you know, Sean Baker's, I love going

back and forth as Sean. He's my favorite carnivore doctor. Cause like just straight up meathead and doesn't like, he says a lot of politically incorrect things that I'm like, Oh my God, I would never say that. But in terms of like, just being real about it, uh, about at least not those other things, but maybe the carnivore stuff, he pulls up a good point. Like, let's say I have a patient who's 300 pounds, has non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, a good point. Like let's say I have a patient who's 300 pounds, has non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, type two diabetes, hypertension, sleep apnea, whatever else, what other, you know, osteoarthritis in their knees, they lose, let's say 50% of their body weight or even 30 or something. They get down to like 200 pounds and they are feeling amazing.

I've seen doctors say like, oh, I can't believe you're doing carnivore. That's going to kill you. I'm like, you just, this person was just eating donuts and pizza and living a very poor quality of life and now they're eating meat and just because you have something against red meat or whatever, you're going to tell them that's bad for them when clearly everything else improved. So I think from my standpoint, I think we just got to look at the patient in front of us, understand their total risk of everything and look at their quality of life. Quantity of life is different too.

I think, you know, there's probably, if we could put them on a more longevity optimal diet, maybe hypothetically they'd live longer, but that remains to be seen anyway. We're not going to know all that. So I think if somebody does a carnivore diet, ketogenic diet, and they improve all their markers and they're looking great, why not? As long as they're doing it safely so um that that's my thing i i like to make fun of keto only because of some of the people that are in the keto community that basically try to make it seem like it's the only way and it's like it's not the only way and then they'll be like oh you think counting calories is the only way i'm like i don't even count calories i hate counting calories you know so like and they're like what are you stupid vegan i'm like i'm not even

i love me i love you know like what are you talking about so i think just assuming that if i'm saying you know making fun of something i assume i'm the other way but it's like really i'm like i have patients that do all of it and actually a lot of my patients laugh a lot at my memes that are making fun of it. They're like, I know you're just joking, but I thought it was funny. Anyway, that's my stance. I think there are people that can do extremely well on it. It's like, hey, bravo.

You're living a great life now. Watch the risk on everything else and monitor them. And patients do have autonomy too. You know, we don't want to just poo-poo them and make them feel bad and then they're going to fire you anyway. So they're going to go somewhere else. Let's say a patient wants to employ some fasting. Yeah. Where do you go with that? Yeah, same thing.

Like I basically tell them, look's it's a it's a method of allowing you to eat have eat less energy i i usually try to downplay these possible like magical properties that fasting may have um that that's been kind of studied in in uh animal models but in terms of humans it's like look i can, I can't say whether it's going to be beneficial beyond this energy restriction, but if it helps you do the energy restriction, why not? Just, you know, what's the harm?

It's the way our ancestors ate, bro. Yeah, it's ancestral, so it has to be good. That's the key. Right. You know, I'm curious about this because you work with a lot of individuals who have obesity. That's what you work with primarily. And we've been having a few discussions on the show with the idea of the healthy at every size movement, the fat acceptance movement. And a comment that I've been seeing a lot and we've been seeing a lot is a lot of people are saying, well, you know, these people would stop stuffing their faces. It's a choice, man. Like you make that choice, you, you deal with the, whatever, we can't accept it. Right. Is it, I know, you know, a lot of the things that go on metabolically, psychologically with individuals who are obese, is that actually a choice that people are making? Like what's going on? Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question. There's a lot of people that are like, of course it's a choice, but I,

I would posit this. Most people go through life, uh, subconsciously. They're, you know, when you, when you're young, you're not thinking of whether, I mean, some people, some people hyper fixated because of their parents or whatever, but most people like, I don't know, when I was young, I drank like regular soda and had pizza whenever. And I didn't really think of anything about it. And I just, I stayed naturally lean, right? Because it was like, I just kind of ate to, you know, I'm satiated now. I don't really, I didn't think anything about it.

Whereas other people, they don't think anything of it, but they start gaining weight because they're, you know, the genetics or whatever appetite regulation is not as good as mine necessarily, or as other people who stay lean throughout their life. And they're subconsciously, it's just all subconscious. We're kind of, we're just kind of living life. We're not really thinking of it. Now, once you develop the obesity, overweight, and then you're going, you know, I should really do something about it. Deciding to do something about it is a choice. You are now consciously aware of it going like, okay, do I need to do something about it? The problem is then it's not just a simple choice of like, do I want to have obesity or not have obesity? You're literally making choices all throughout the day.

Do I want to sit here on the couch, do my work, or do I want to take this meeting and go for a walk? Every little piece of morsel of food that you're thinking about eating, those are all choices. So it becomes multiple choices throughout the day. And then even then, our body starts fighting us, kind of what I talked about. Our brains start fighting us in terms of hunger. So here's the analogy i would say obesity would be a choice the same way that walking from new york city to la would be a choice some people could fly to la right that they can lose the weight and keep it off and it was not a big deal some people can drive it was

a little bit harder but but they did it. Some people bike and then some people just have to walk. So technically, like somebody has obesity and they have the resources. Let's say they have the resources and they could just pay someone to get them to an island where the food and they have nothing in this environment that's kind of pushing them towards gaining weight. OK, so technically, then it'd be a choice for them because they're not going to have any choice but to start losing weight, even if they are starving hungry. It's just it's it's it's not possible. And also, of course, it's a choice if you can afford these drugs and surgeries or whatever. But let's just let's just cut those out for now.

So I would say, like, you know know it's not a not a choice yes a choice it's a kind of a metaphorical silly question uh that um i would just say let's just understand it's really hard for some people it's easier some people it's harder some people just probably won't be able to lose weight and keep it off and i don't want to take away hope from those people let's just face reality and figure out tools to help them the best we can. So that's how I usually answer that. Yeah, and it really doesn't matter like a ton, right? Like how they got there.

Like someone who's an alcoholic, they're an alcoholic. And how they got there, yes, it's important. Maybe they have a trauma in their life. And you see it very often with obesity. There's a trauma. And so it's nice to try to work some of those things out. But the math is still all the same. Like you still got to figure out this calorie thing and you still have to figure out like how the fuck can I make it through each day with just eating a little bit less?

How is every day or every birthday and every holiday not this like mega celebration? You know, people know me as the big guy. They know that I hammer food pretty good. And like it's always a thing. And people buy you gifts and stuff that probably fall in line with you barbecuing and like just various things that they think that you might enjoy. And you're trying to get yourself out the game like you're in drugs or something, you know. But you can't. Like you're hooked in there

and you're sort of stuck. And it's not an easy thing. What I really think is cool about you is that you are actually physically working with these people. These are people, our obese community is not getting served enough. They're not serviced enough. They're not thought about enough. In this country, we don't think about them enough, especially before somebody gets to these kind of critical points. Do you think some of this stuff should be taught at home or in school or like, where should we pick up some of these values? Because I would imagine even just somebody listening to you for 20 or 30 minutes could really help change someone's life forever, in my opinion. Yeah, I appreciate the comments.

That means a lot. different culture when you're young and in society some some places they are more shameful and it seems to not be as as deleterious as here here when we kind of push push um put pressure and stigma and shame it tends to make people worse and gain weight um if i it would be nice to start when you're young and have your parents have a nice, healthful meal as much as possible. You know, it's interesting, though. I see my daughter, my daughter and son, they like to eat their goldfish, you know, the little packets of goldfish. They'll eat some healthy stuff and whatever, fruit, meat, whatever, vegetables. And then they'll still want some

snacks afterwards and we try to minimize it as much as possible but you know you think about other families it's like you know i always make the worst case scenario let's say a single mom who has to work multiple jobs uh their kid has to um sit at home with a TV dinner or pizza dinner, watching TV or something like that, as opposed to like another family has a nice sit down meal and they have all as many fruits and vegetables as possible. So it'd be nice on multiple levels to prevent it from first occurring. Like, you know, it'd be nice to just change our environment. It's just really hard to do that on a global scale. Do you find it hard as a parent yourself to kind of help manage that? Like, is it a little bit of a pain in the ass, like chop up fruit or have like fresh options?

My kids, like, they just don't even like, there's so much good food in our fridge and there's so much good food in our house but they still like are so lazy with stuff they just i mean my son might go in the fridge and like get watermelon but probably not i probably have to like say hey jake i bought you some watermelon and i gotta fucking hand it to him yeah it's like it's kind of a pain in the ass how powerful that's how powerful these foods are engineered to just make us want more. Like, right. Wow. Like that's what, when I was younger,

it's like, I don't want that broccoli. I want to want that piece of pizza or whatever it was. I was a fricking snack pack. I don't know. I cooked up eggs and filet for breakfast the other morning. I asked my son, I'm like, you want some eggs?

You want some filet? I was like, it came out fucking perfect. It's amazing. He's like, no, I'm good. I'm about to leave the house. And I almost step a Subway sandwich that was delivered to our front door.

I'm like, you chose a fucking Subway sandwich. Well, what kind of sandwich? Over a filet and eggs, which I totally understand because it probably tasted amazing. That's so good. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, that's exactly the thing. I mean, you just try to do the best you can. You try to surround them with an environment that's conducive to it i'll say also from on a

genetic standpoint you know we'll go out with other families to get some donuts after soccer or something like that and my daughter she loves you know she loves the crazy donuts and she'll eat like half of it and she's like okay i'm done and she'll throw it away but she loved that first half the fact that she only ate half was interesting to me because i'll see other kids and maybe not as favorable genetics and they'll they'll plow one they'll plow another one and i'm just like holy cow this is like right in my face how different we are as people to where it's like my daughter i know loves know, loves that donut. She was so excited, but she only ate half and she goes, all right, I'm done. I'm full. Boom. And threw it away. I'm like, oh my God, where's the other kids eating multiple. So, you know, maybe it's

just, maybe, maybe it's all in our genes. We have no control. Not really, but obviously there's a nature and nurture involved. So you just try to do the best you can. Yeah, I don't want to sound insensitive towards it because like I've never had an issue with gaining weight. But to me, it does seem or it does appear that like people can be addicted to food. So I don't know if food addiction is even a thing. Maybe you can help us out with that. But also like for the person that maybe they're not even coming to you, like maybe it's somebody that we want to have a conversation with, you know, or somebody listening wants to have a conversation with in regards to like, okay, they're not moving around. They don't really have much going on. But after dinner, which the dinner wasn't even that healthy anyways, but they look forward to that bucket of Ben and Jerry's, right?

And without it, they're unhappy. Without it, they don't without it they're unhappy without it they don't they don't feel them like they're themselves anymore to when it gets to that point i kind of would be like well shit maybe this person is addicted to the food so if that's the case like what's that conversation like like how can you bring someone back from kind of relying on that extra treat towards the end of the day yeah oh great question i love it because you know you'll see this very staunch evidence evidence-based fitness people be like there's no such thing as food addiction you're just eating too much and i'm like

have you ever have you ever had like doritos like what are you talking about like i can't doritos or whatever you know i i kind of like the kettle chips. Those are great. Those are really good. Think about mashing up these kettle chips and putting them in water and making like mashed potatoes almost with it. It's pretty much the same thing. You just added water, but it doesn't taste as good. So there's all sorts of properties about these foods that make us want them more.

It doesn't taste as good. So there's all sorts of properties about these foods that make us want them more. The crunchiness, the saltiness, the little bit of fat that they put in and then the starch. I get so excited with stuff like that, too. I'm already thinking about other combinations. I'm like, I can dip that in cheese or I can dip that in ranch. I was thinking of dip, too. That's right where my mind goes to.

I need more combinations. This Dorito doesn't pack quite enough flavor. I need even more on top of it. Yes. These foods are designed to do this. And so I'm not going to play this whole like conspiracy theory of like big food is taking over and whatever. But like, you know, they kind of in a certain way. So I would say, sure, maybe food's not addictive. Well, we can call them addictive like

it doesn't really matter they there's similar pathways in the brain that control this i was talking about the reward uh center in our brain the reward pathways and that's why like hey alcoholism uh smoking these types of things some of those some of the drugs that we have they're older drugs for weight loss some of the drugs that we have, they're older drugs for weight loss. Some of the drugs that we have actually have been used for smoking cessation, alcohol cessation. And some of these drugs that are now being used for obesity, GLP-1s, they actually reduce some of these other addictive substance abuse activities like smoking and alcohol and probably other things, even gambling. I think they're going to start studying this stuff more. So in these types of patients, so first of all, I validate how they're feeling. I think the wrong way to think about this is like there's no such thing as food addiction.

This person's telling you I'm having trouble stopping myself from eating Ben and Jerry's after each meal despite being relatively full. And you're going to tell them there's no such thing. Clearly, there's some driver for them to want to do this despite having that satiation, that feeling of feeling satisfied and shouldn't want any more food. But there's something else in their brain that's basically driving them to want to do this, even when they know it's harmful to them, too. So I think at the very least, we validate what they're feeling. And I would say there are pathways in our brain that may indeed drive us to want to eat even more. And some of these foods that are extremely yummy, they're wired to want to eat these highly uh very yummy highly palatable whatever you want to say foods and then and then there are there are techniques in terms of um

psychological techniques therapies that you can try to do but i'm a big pharma show and i use drugs in these patients they you'll it's it's it's amazing because they'll they will say like oh my gosh you i just didn't feel like having that ben and jerry's or whatever it is i i just don't feel like it you made me feel normal but certainly i think validating how they feel and and talking about there is there's something to it and maybe not saying yes you're addicted you have no power because i don't think that's right that's what people are trying to say is like hey i don't i don't think this is really that addictive and you're giving them uh this this you're putting this food on a pedestal and they're going to feel like hopeless that that they have to eat this there are you know um techniques you can use to help you. I mean, some people stop drinking and smoking,

they can stop. Um, for other people, the drive is so strong that it's really hard for them to stop and same with food. But I think there's enough of an overlap to say, Hey, um, there's something to that. Let's see what we can do to give you tools to stop that. That's what I would say. How do we help or encourage people to get help? You know, we do that with like Alcoholics Anonymous or with someone who's addicted to drugs. Quite common even for families. Like I've had this in my own family in more ways than one where we've had like interventions. Actually, we've had way too many now that I think about it. But how could someone go about like suggesting or even just through this show, like is there somewhere for someone to go to like get help that maybe isn't like some outrageous price or something?

Because I know there's a lot of people suffering and I'm sure they want to start doing something, but they're not going to ask their brother or their brother-in-law or their friend because they just probably don't feel good about it. Yeah. This is where the destigmatizing thing. So the big thing with like mental health, depression, taking the stigma away from it. There are a lot of people struggling right now. There's a lot of people that struggle with alcohol. Let's take away the stigma around it. People don't like to talk about it because they're embarrassed.

In terms of food, the same thing. Taking away the stigma around obesity and the struggles. You know, in terms of like, I'm just going to shill out my own. I have a telemedicine company that we're trying to do this. It's called Sequence. So joinsequence.com is where we do these weight loss medicines online and try to make it in the comfort of your own home. Because what happens is that a patient will go to their doctor. They'll finally muster up the courage to talk to their doctor about it.

And the doctor will be like, I don't get it. You're just not trying hard enough. You just need to eat more spinach and chicken. I'm not kidding you. There's a doctor that I worked with. One of my patients had to see them for a cold and they brought up their weight and the doctor was just like, why can't you lose weight? You just need to eat egg whites, spinach, and chicken. What are you doing? And they were so distraught

from it. It would be nice to... Egg whites and spinach, that is disgusting. Let's just be honest there. So imagine going in, you're already embarrassed about it and the doctor says that, whereas you just want some help. And now just knowing that there are tools out there that can help is the first thing, destigmatizing obesity and saying there are obesity specialist doctors out there, the abom.org. You can find one near you if you didn't want to go to my telemedicine thing. But knowing that there is help is a good step. Pat Brodsky, I hope you guys are doing well. Now, we love meat.

We love to eat meat on this podcast. We've talked about it. Yeah, we've talked about it a lot. That's why I partnered with Piedmontese because they have amazing cuts of steak, some that have a lot of fat, some that are a bit lower fat, but no matter what diet you're on, you can fit Piedmontese steak into your diet. It's good. Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, you guys got to head over to piedmontese.com. If you guys know how to spell it, say it with me. That's P-I-E-D-M-O-N-T-E-S-E.com and at checkout, enter promo code POWER for 25% off your entire order.

And if your order is $150 or more, you get free two-day shipping. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. Let's get back to the podcast. I'm curious because you mentioned yo-yo dieting quite a few times. Now, we've known people who have lost 100, 200 pounds and have gained literally all the way back, then lost it again, then gained some of it back, right? So if you get to the other side, if you get, you've dropped that weight or you've dropped a substantial amount of weight and you're like, I want to stay the course. I want to maintain this.

What are the key things that you need to make sure you just do so that you don't end up going back and gaining weight? Because some people think that like, you know, your, your metabolism is always the way it is. So like, you're going to, you're going to be at that weight, then you're just going to start eating the same amount of food that you used to eat. So what should people do? Yeah, good, good question. So there are a lot of people that use whatever techniques to get down to that weight and then they get, it's almost like they get bored with not seeing the the scale change like it's it was almost dopamine releasing to wake up you know every week or whatever and or whenever how often they got on the scale and just yes i lost another pound or lost another

couple pounds or whatever it was so some sometimes it's teaching people to like appreciate maintenance, appreciate this plateau, appreciate where you're going to likely, hopefully maintain. And then say like, look at this weight, you had to eat so many, this much to get there,

but you can actually, you can actually eat more to still maintain this, this weight. Well, so, you know, you go in the calorie deficit and then maintenance is actually a little bit higher than that. So allowing people to eat more.

The other thing is if we can get people to really get into physical activity, then you don't need to eat so few of calories for the long run. And I'm actually going on a debate about what's better, aerobic training versus resistance training for long-term obesity management. My hypothesis is this. I honestly, there's no data to support this, but I'm going to be using hypotheticals and storytelling to try to win this debate because I don't have the data on my side. But, you know, let's say you get people like to just completely starving themselves and they get down that hundred pounds or whatever it is. If we're able to get them to strength train, aerobic training is great.

I'm not going to poopoo aerobic training. It's awesome. Yeah. It helps you burn. It helps you burn more calories. And there's cardiorespiratory fitness involved and whatever. If you're able to start weight training and you build some of that muscle and then you start eating more and more so that you don't feel so deprived. And then you're partitioning that energy that you're starting to eat back more and more into muscle and using it as substrate with your muscle.

Anyway, this is my idea. There's lots of anecdotes out there. I wish I had a long-term study. The one thing is that people just – it's just hard to adhere to exercise regardless. So this is all hypothetical. But I think that in terms of weight loss, maintenance, getting people to be physically active, whether it's a lot more walking or whatever, but getting people strength training would also help to allow people to eat more. Of course, I use medicines and whatever to keep the weight off and some of these people that are just so hungry, but I think in terms of lifestyle habits, ensuring they know they can eat more. If they start seeing the scale go up a little bit, that's fine. Understanding it's a little bit water. It goes back to the all or

nothing mentality that like, Oh, I'm starting to see the scale go up. I guess I'm going back to what I was before. It's like, no, no, no no no just just have these little like alarms that like oh I regained you know three percent of my weight or 10 pounds or whatever that is all right I gotta refocus think about what I'm doing not overly obsess over it and that type of thing so that's these are kind of the skills we go over but I I'm kind of a shill for resistance training of course like like y'all are so um I do think that like getting into that and really building some muscle and and being able to eat more overall so you don't have to stay on this like depriving diet of egg whites and spinach no just kidding but that that's that's the gist of course, focusing on these really satiating, filling foods as much as possible. What are some things that frustrate you?

Because you seem frustrated when it comes to… Sexually or is this… Yeah, yeah, sexual frustration. Yeah, let's get that out. Now, just with some of your posts, sometimes it seems like you're frustrated with some of what's communicated in the fitness industry. So what are some of the main frustrations of maybe some other people that are sharing information from a nutrition standpoint where you're like, man, some of these guys just don't know what the fuck they're talking about? Because again, I think when you're talking to the community that you're speaking to, it's just a whole different thing. Talking to the community that you're speaking to, it's just a whole different thing.

And you're actually a doctor and you're actually like servicing these people, communicating with them and getting them results. It's way different than, say, like even me, for example, just saying, hey, like try this and I think you're going to be able to lose some weight. And of course, there's people that get excited and they drop 20 pounds and stuff like that. But you're actually in the trenches. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, some of the big frustrations, of course, like I always pick on the keto people, like some of these people that just come up with silly mechanisms to promote their style of weight loss or eating.

Because the biggest frustration is just the pseudoscience and the stuff that confuses people. Because I think that's what makes people just, wait, I thought eating after 6 p.m. I would automatically gain weight. Wait, I thought eating breakfast was good. Wait, I thought skipping breakfast was the best. So just like when people make up stuff just to push their narrative, that's the most frustrating thing. Because in the end, people lose. And some people are like, well. That's the most frustrating thing because in the end, people lose. And some people are like, well, what's the harm?

Such and such doctor said that fasting and keto is the best and there are a lot of people that did it and lost weight. Well, the harm is that you don't see the people that didn't lose weight and now think that certain foods harmful based on some silly mechanistic property that somebody made up so i i i'd say the biggest frustration is just simply just making things up without having like a the the evidence to back it up and and like being very like

authoritative about it in terms of like hey this might help like you said hey this this this strategy might help do this as opposed to like this strategy is the way because of this xyz mechanism if you do it this other way you're going to fail and it's very um i just don't like that authoritative speak in terms of like things that are just like you don't know that obviously number one number two it's just it's just wrong. So I take the confusion stuff as my biggest issue. You mentioned kind of plateaus earlier. And I'm curious because there are some people who they've structured their own diet. They've been a caloric deficit.

They've increased their energy expenditure. They're working out. But they've gotten to a point where they're like, I don't want to take away any more calories. I can't do any more fucking cardio. And I'm doing resistance training six times a week, but I'm not dropping weight, right? So for individuals in that particular conundrum, what should they think about doing? Yeah. These are the people that i'm like

screw the scale weight let's just forget about it for now why don't we focus on other non-scale victories or whatever you want to say behaviors let's focus on fitness let's focus on getting stronger let's focus on shaping your body body composition screw the scale um you know not in this whole healthy at every size type of way but like on a very like purposeful like understanding that the scale weight isn't everything there are other factors in your uh habits that can be very helpful and so that in those people like embrace the plateaus let's not even look at the scale anymore other than you know make sure you're not gaining weight, of course. But let's start focusing on other things that can get you going.

Let's get you eating more so you're not feeling so miserable and make sure that you're maintaining the weight. And then see where you go from there. Because like when people start obsessing over their weight, that's worth, you know, and I get it all the time. Patients are just, we've just been ingrained to obsess over the scale. I don't, I wish I could get people not to, and I try to help them. But this is where, hey, let's focus on, let's get your squat up or your deadlift or whatever. Let's focus on, you know, your waist circumference is shrinking, but your scale is not changing. I think that's a good thing. You look different in in your clothes that's probably all you really cared about do you really

care about the number on the scale that type of thing i would imagine that your um first place to start with somebody probably isn't to necessarily take away shit and like especially take away calories is probably more like let's see if we can get a shift with better food choices and, you know, hey, can you do a couple of walks a day or something along those lines. Does that sound fairly accurate? Yeah. So it depends. Like, okay, so let's say it's in that first month or two and they're excited about their weight loss and maybe have them on a relatively higher calorie intake. That's you already know that they're eating a healthful dietary pattern, let's say.

So in this case, you may adjust their calories down. But the majority of these people that are really frustrated, they've probably been going at it for like three to six months. In those cases, I'm always just like, hey, let's take a step back and let's not focus on the scale. Let's just actually try to maintain this for a few months and let's focus on other things. And now that sometimes upsets patients because they're so obsessed. But other times they're like, no, it sounds great. I've been going at this hard. I'm tired.

I'm hungry. I'd rather eat a little bit more, maintain this and focus on other things. I'm hungry. I'd rather eat a little bit more, maintain this and focus on other things. When it comes to terzapatide, I was curious about this because like whenever any drug is mentioned, I'm always like, what are the, what are some side effects? So like with somebody takes terzapatide for quite some time, right? Let's say you're doing it. I think you said on a weekly basis. And then they get to their goal weight.

They don't, do they need to keep taking Terzapatide? Like what happens when they stop? Dude, does their appetite, the way they look at things come back? Do they need to wean off the dose? Like what's the deal there? Yeah. The, the way that most people think of these medicines are chronic therapy. So like, think of like blood pressure medicine, somebody, you know, they. They've done all the lifestyle things. They've

aerobic training, they're resistance training, they're eating a dash-like diet, they've lost weight and their blood pressure is still high. Or maybe they're struggling in other ways, but their blood pressure is still high. So we put them on blood pressure medicine, their blood pressure eventually comes down to a good range. The same thing is with these, and it would be like stopping the blood pressure medicine now that their blood pressure is normal so these new medicines they hit this biological uh part of our brain that is is like we now think it's like really driving the boat here in terms of people regaining weight and not losing weight so i i do there are studies on this.

They stop the medicines, you know, whether it's semaglutide, which is one of the newer GLP-1 medicines, or terzepatide. It's so new that they're going to be looking at this in certain studies, stopping it. But let's say there's one with semaglutide. They stopped it and they put one group on a placebo and then saw what happened to them. Most people do start regaining the weight even though they're, you know, thought that, you know, they didn't even know they're on a placebo. So, likely people will have to stay on at least a low dose medicine. There's not guidance yet on,

I mean, these things are so powerful. People are going from, you know, I have patients that were like in the 30s, BMI high 30s, and now they're in like the mid 20s to low 20s. And I'm like, all right, I need to actually start weaning you at least down because you're going to wither away and be frail. Like, I don't want that, of course. So my thinking is that they're going to at least require a low dose. my thinking is that they're going to at least require a low dose. There are other individuals, though, who let's say they had an injury or COVID. You know, COVID really, the pandemic threw people off their habits. And so whatever they were before, they were fine. But then COVID happened, the pandemic happened,

and then they developed these like poor habits, gained some some weight and then now they're struggling to lose weight i hypothesize i think that actually using this medicine and helping them the medicine would help them develop those older habits like you get them into it it helps them start doing it again i think i have a feeling that at least some of those patients many of, we would be able to wean the medicine off. And you just say, you might have some hunger coming back, but like if you're using, doing these habits, you should be good. Whereas other people, if the biological signal is so strong, it might derail them back into their old habits. That's how I would think of it. So these products can kind of make you nauseous, right?

Like it's one of the main side effects. And it could cause stomach issues. Nausea is by far the most common thing. Yeah. That's the most common one we see. It's mild for most, moderate to severe for some patients. And I do send in what's called like Zofran on Danzitron, the stuff you might have had surgeries or something and afterwards felt nauseous and got some in the hospital. So Zofran I do use.

I noticed I only have to use that for like one in maybe 20 got some in the hospital. So Zofran I do use. I noticed I only have to use that for like one in maybe 20 or one in 30 patients, but the nausea starts to resolve over time. You start at a low dose. First week might be a little nauseous. The second week might be a little bit less and less and less throughout the month. Once in a while, people have to stay on the same dose the second month until they completely tolerate it. Then you go up in the dose and they might get a little bit more nausea and then it starts to resolve. And finally, when you're at your final dose, you should not have long-term nausea. If you're feeling nauseous the whole time, that's not really a way to live your life despite losing weight. Can you imagine just, oh, I'm losing weight, but I just feel miserable all the time.

So ideally, most people will resolve. So that is the most common, and it does resolve for most people. What kind of health markers do you see increase when someone loses 10, maybe 15% of their body weight? Yeah, the goal before used to be around 5%. Now that we have these better drugs and better therapies, it's like, we might as well make it at least 10%. And some people are like, no, make it 15, 20, whatever percent.

So 5%, you start seeing blood pressure, blood sugar improvements, triglyceride improvements, 10%. You start seeing, you know, you really start seeing better improvements in your knees and further improvements in their triglycerides and blood pressure. And then you have 10 to 15 percent. You start seeing improvement in sleep apnea and all these other things like that. And then further along the way, once you get to 20 percent.

I mean, once I get somebody to lose 20 or so percent of their weight with this, some of those metabolic syndrome type stuff, i rarely see them like there like they they look like a completely different person that's kind of like going back to like you know someone like why am i going to yell at somebody on an all meat diet who just lost like 30 of their weight who pretty much like is a completely new person it's it's really cool to see that yeah any side effects that someone might have or some negatives that might come along with, uh, anything that they're trying to do to lose weight. Um, most of the time losing the body weight or getting rid of some of that body fat is, uh, they're probably one of the more important things, right? It's like, you don't want to do that at

all costs, obviously, but it's some people are in a compromised position, right? Yeah. So if you're, if this is where some of the older drugs, there's things small cost, obviously, but some people are in a compromised position, right? Yeah. So this is where some of the older drugs, there's things like fen-phen, which was fentramine, which it was studied was fine. It's the fenfluramine was causing these valve issues. And let's think about like cocaine or something like that. Obviously, people start losing weight, but then at the risk of having a vasospasm in one of their coronary arteries and dropping dead type of thing. So obviously, there's benefits and risks. And with any type of therapy, we want to make sure the benefits outweigh the risks.

And so for these drugs, they've been studied now for a long time and seem to be much, much, much more benefit than risk, which is one of the unfortunate things about some of the older kind of upper type of drugs that we saw. You know, I hate to bring this up again, but I'm curious actually about your understanding of this. Now, obviously we've mentioned healthy at every size a few times and some people bring up the blood work idea, you know, like if you get your blood work done and you see all your markers are okay, then you're healthy. And some people, when they look at being healthy, they also look at, well, I'm able to do all the things I like to do and I feel good. I'm healthy. My blood work's good even though I'm overweight or obese.

I'm healthy. Is there – I'm curious if there is anything wrong with that argument. What is the problem there? Like how can people actually rationally look at that? Yeah, yeah, that's great. I think this goes into the definitions of like what health outcome are we looking at? Are we looking at purely metabolic health like in terms of like risk of type two diabetes, risks of heart attacks, risks of kidney disease, that type of thing. But then there's, you know, then there's also biomechanical issues, right? So like, I'm healthy with all my, you know, markers, but I have sleep

apnea, or I'm healthy, but my knees hurt really bad. Or I can't walk up the stairs without becoming short of breath, I can't play with my kids, those types of things. So let's just say we're looking at metabolic health. Well, we have very objective. Those other things are kind of subjective, like playing with your kids. There's not really a standardized marker of what's good and what's bad. We just kind of think of, well, this wasn't good. That was bad, that was bad. So, but with metabolic health, we have very standardized markers and, and can predict, you know, things like who's going to have heart attacks. And that's why we kind of pick these reference ranges and all these different things. So we have standardized markers. So in terms of that metabolically healthy, but

having obesity, it's actually really rare. The harder you look, the more markers you start looking. For example, let's say a study comes out and says, yeah, this person is metabolically healthy but has obesity. Sometimes the way that they define it, they'll allow them to have slightly elevated blood sugar because it's only one component of the metabolic syndrome, which you have to have three of these different components. So it's interesting how they define these. So the closer you look, it's actually rare.

It's relatively rare to have a metabolically healthy obesity. And then on top of that, if you were to image their liver, they probably, many of those people that are defined as metabolically healthy obesity have fat in their liver. So the question is what are you going to do about it though? Like what are we going to do? Just make them feel bad about it? Let's just get them to their best life. Let's get them to their best weight where they feel the best.

They're the happiest without feeling miserable. And understand that there still may be risks. Even if their markers did look fine, he didn't image their liver. Technically, someone in that position will still be at a higher risk than someone who is lean, who doesn't have obesity, but is also metabolically healthy, a higher risk of heart attacks and things like that. It's not much of a difference. So that's why we just say, hey, just do the best you can. But like, I think it's important to delineate you know which part of health are we trying to define here you're looking at like mental health that's a whole different

thing because like i mean who of us is actually mentally healthy i'm like holy cow if we're going by that i don't think anybody's really that healthy but if we're standardizing it with metabolically healthy markers and we can actually look at that um anyway that's that's usually i actually do a lot of uh work in metabolically healthy versus unhealthy obesity it's a really interesting topic what do you do with uh someone that you're helping and uh they come back to you a couple weeks later and they're like my significant other they're not really on board and they just run into like a lot of resistance in the household. And maybe they lost some weight but the other person is kind of scared to see what happens if that person really makes progress and heads in the other direction.

Yeah. I wish I had a perfect answer to this. I've seen some really bad outcomes of this where the the partner one spouse will lose the weight while the other one doesn't and uh you know they it sounds it sounds bad but a lot i've seen them get divorced because because of whatever reason jealousy and then i've seen you know sabotaging and and uh all sorts of stuff the biggest thing i try to teach my patients is like you're gonna have to have what we call like a crucial conversation about this. You're going to have to have a sit down coming to Jesus, like

heart to heart, like get them on your team. Like, please, like I'm begging you type of thing. If you can't do that, then there's probably some issues in that relationship in the first place. I hate to say it, but, um, that's, that's, that, but that's the best you can do. You really got to sit down and have a good discussion with the partner. And if they're still pushing against it, it's like, that's just not good. That's not healthy.

What are maybe some simple things that a parent can do to kind of help their kids with their food? Yeah, the biggest thing is, like, don't have them start counting their calories for the love of God. Don't get them obsessed. Weigh your food. Yeah.

Like seriously, take the stress away from food. Just try to surround them with the more healthful foods. Try to keep a healthful environment in the house, kind of like what you were saying. Don't talk about their body image don't push things worst you know you can talk to the pediatrician oftentimes the pediatricians aren't equipped there are pediatric obesity physicians and like they have whole centers around this that kind of go over this type of stuff so if if you're a parent and you have a child that's that's suffering from it there know that there are um whole holistic type of centers out there with very like specialized pediatric

obesity physicians and and dieticians and whatever but the big thing is you what would work for me you doesn't necessarily work for a kid their their mind is different. They're developing and you don't want to get them obsessed at a young age because it can really ruin them later in life. For my own amusement and curiosity, if somebody is on one of those GLP-1 drugs, they're not interested in food anymore. So their body is getting energy from their body. So in body fat, but if that body fat was created on donuts and pizza and bad food, is that still a clean source of energy for them or do they need to supplement with something else? Yeah, it should be fine. You know, we store the triglycerides and then we just use the triglycerides. Of course, if there's toxins or something else in something that you're eating, you have the risk of releasing it from your body fat. But otherwise, the triglycerides, we convert this energy differently in our body. So then you're just using it later. It shouldn't be an issue. What do you do for training?

I know you said you lift. What else do you do? Anything else? Yeah. So I wrestled in college. So I was such a meathead that I really did resistance training only for a while. And then it was 2015 where it's like I hated running for wrestling. I just hated it so much.

I was like, just let me lift. Unfortunately unfortunately you have to be in good shape to wrestle so um you can't just lift in fact that you know might have been my downfall at times and the third period being like all right i probably should have done some more conditioning here so uh now i do try to do some aerobic training in between my lifts i try to lift either three or four times a week with time. Time is really the issue. And in between there, two or three times a week of some sort of aerobic training, low level, like kind of zone two type of stuff. I was doing higher intensity, but that seems to disrupt being able to lift. And then I get beat up. So that's kind of one of the things too with patients, like having them understand,

like you don't have to beat yourself up. Just do something that you really enjoy that you can continue doing. That's probably the best. That's what I do. Got some cauliflower ear under there or no? No, I wear my headgear. Just like I'm wearing these headphones right now.

I wore my headgear all the time. I was a good boy. I have some, you can feel it. You won't be able to see it though. Okay. Yeah. You got anything coming up? You got any books coming out or seminars or anything you want to share with us?

Yeah. So I'm going to this obesity week. It's the yearly annual conference where all the obesity researchers and physicians get together. So that's where I'm debating about resistance training is what I would argue better than aerobic training. It's just a hypothetical question because ideally you would do both, right? But if you had a gun to your head and you had to choose one, which one would you do? So that's coming up at the beginning of November.

And other than that, I'm really trying to get this telemedicine startup, uh, just steamrolling the competition. So I had one, I had one last question. I was curious, um, you know, sometimes when an individual is very large, they have a lot of loose skin as they're dropping down. Is there any way of training or an aspect of losing weight slower? Can anything mitigate the amount of loose skin someone has when they're at their end goal weight? Is there anything? Yeah. There's anecdotes about like, hey, maybe losing weight at a slower pace, maybe making sure you're lifting weights to fill out some of that loose skin.

Some people anecdotally say fasting helps, eating collagen protein. These things, they're just basically anecdotes. Honestly, I don't know of anything. There's surgery you can get when it's done. It's one of these things where I'd say like, hey, if you have a lot of weight to lose, expect that there's going to be some loose skin, except that that's a possibility. And the worst case scenario, um, you can get surgery. A lot of people, you know, it's hit or miss of depending on the surgeon or whatever, but I, it's, it's one of these answers that I hate giving. Cause I'm just like, I wish I had a magic bullet for it.

Um, and it's a good excuse to say, say hey at the very least start lifting some weights but but i can't promise that's gonna do well but i think if you guys know who ethan suplee is absolutely yeah yeah was he on the podcast yeah yeah he was or not okay he's my buddy but great example i'm going to use him in the in the debate um basically i'm using celebrity endorsement over any evidence that I can use. Yeah. But great example. He showed how he was just biking and basically doing tons of cardio. And he was kind of, you know, and his words kind of skinny and tired and hungry. Whereas now he's lifting weight.

I mean, he just looks great. He just looks full and great and just happy. And so I try to use those types of examples and just try to get people pumping some iron. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks. It was a great conversation.

You guys are fun. All right, man. Catch you later. Thanks. That's what I was just saying a couple days ago was, you know, if I could pick one thing, it would be just for people to lift some weights. I know it's not an easy thing for people to get into, but some resistance training is nice. What's you laughing about? Are you okay?

Did you fart? I think we're good. Yeah, it was. Maybe he's going to poop. He was really. Or are you thinking about going to obesity week? I saw you grinning over there because I was thinking it back here, and I'm like, I'm not going to say anything.

That's a skinny guy over here. But all I could think of was that probably looks kind of like Super Bowl week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For everyone. Yo. These jokes are all in good fun. But yeah, when he said that, I we're all there i really held that i really held that shit back yeah obesity week i'm thinking it's like fourth and one on the goal line they're

putting in all the heavy players on the team sorry everybody sorry my mind just went like that's that's i know that's what went on well it also made me just think like that would be like that's such a great week like you just eat whatever you want that's what i thought it meant to me like cheat week to be fair we call that like thanksgiving here yeah it's like oh it's thanksgiving so i'm gonna have the pumpkin pie starting monday it might be helpful to just start calling it obesity week that way people maybe are a little more cautious going dude do you think we can pass that i don't think so i mean you were running for president that one year and you got something fucking legislated.

I think we can do it. I'm pretty sure. It was called Fit Week. Oh, yeah. Fit Week. And you can call it not Fat Week. Be Less Fat Week. Yeah, Be Less Fat Week.

That's going to make people mad. People do need to be less fat, though, right? I mean, you know, hopefully some of this message here today, hopefully some of it was helpful. We don't mean to be distasteful, disgusting fuckers, but we just are. So I apologize for that. But it's a huge problem. There's a lot of people that need a lot of help. And I don't know what it's like.

I was partially trapped in there, I guess I'd say. I had some habits that were really difficult to part with and they're still kind of there sometimes. They still want to kind of creep back out. But I certainly don't have some of the issues when I've talked with friends that are obese where you're like, oh, that's what you're talking about. Okay. I had no idea. Okay. I had no idea. I remember we had a guest on the show a long time ago and he was talking about how like once the kind of floodgates were open to eat whatever he wanted, like what a like um somebody that was addicted to a drug and they had to have it because the length that he went to and the setup that he went to was just it was it was fucking overwhelming hey we got our boy russell russell thank you yes hop on over here buddy yeah dr

nagelski nagelski's disappeared okay but yeah he he misappeared but we might as well have you over here anyway. Go ahead and adjust. Oh, my goodness. Oh, you're so tall. Yeah, he's fucking tall. I don't see you every single day, but it's like even that shirt looks better. Where'd you get that? Say it.

Wait, where? Yeah, I mean, you look great in that shirt. It's just I don't see you every day, so you can tell. Let's adjust that. Let's do this right. Thank you. Thank you. Crank it. Crank day. Let's go ahead and adjust that. Let's do this right. Thank you. Crank it. I'm glad you were thinking the same thing.

You're looking better consistently, man. You're paying attention now, I think. You're dressing better, period. Andrew's like, you used to dress like a child but now you're dressing like an adult I'm joking

I'm getting closer to the size I tell myself and the size I actually am so I'm a little closer to the five so yeah I was texting Russell during the show I was like man maybe he can slide in here to ask a question to Dr. Nadolski

Spencer to your point losing a little bit of weight Maybe you can slide in here to ask a question to Dr. Nadolski. Yeah, definitely. Nadolski. Spencer. Spencer. To your point, losing a little bit of weight, gaining even less muscle, getting a little bit healthier. You're gaining a good amount of muscle, dude. You're in the gym. I see you in the gym lifting all the time.

It's fucking dope. He's got some sunlight on him, too. His face is looking good. The arms are looking good. Getting a little tan. I heard from someone to take these – what do they call it? Ten-minute walks? Oh, yeah.

Outside. And Chris is always saying peel. So I've been peeling with Chris. Peeling? Being this big and walking around your block with no shirt on, I get looks. Oh, okay. Yeah. I've been peeling lately.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The confidence though. i mean i me personally like i have a hard time taking my shirt off walking with these guys but like it's that's huge what did that feel like well i mean you whenever you go to the pool i mean like the sooner you kind of like go listen i mean i i know i'm kind of a fatty kind of but uh i just gotta like like live my best life love me as I am, and still effort to be better. It just makes a big difference, right? We just got told about Obesity Week, and we had to apologize because we started to laugh.

But we were thinking Obesity Week, it kind of felt like we get to eat whatever we want. What do you think when you hear Obesity Week? Okay, I have a multifaceted opinioneted opinion about this right like again you want to love yourself you want to be good to yourself but like being fat in and of itself is not like any admirable quality right the level of it being like i'm so nervous the level of it being like um a negative is i mean it affects your health i think sometimes some of these moral judgments that get associated with it yeah are a little off-putting right because they may or may not be true right but in all cases they're not true

yeah right so i mean yeah like you want to see clothing companies that have shirts for fatties right and i think that's just good business but like the clout chasing part of it it's kind of you want to see clothing companies that have shirts for fatties. Right. And I think that's just good business, but like the clout chasing part of it, it's kind of insulting, insulting and sort of like, like brands, like, like posting pictures of just like really large people or something like,

is that what you mean? The clout chasing, like, Ooh, we're also in support. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Like you don't want,

I mean, I've had, I've had people say, well, Hey, like I've been told you shouldn't be on the church drama team because you're fat and we don't want to put that out to the world. Right. So, I mean, so like there's just such a wide margin, you know, extreme attitudes on any side usually sounds ridiculous. Yeah.

Right. You got to find like the common sense metal. So, yeah. And do you think some of the common sense middle has kind of been lost? I mean, is this a common sense society we live in? Common sense seems to be out the door. It doesn't get attention, right? I think something that you and I talk about quite a bit,

I guess people don't know how to, I don't think that people understand what it's like to be a heavier person and what it's like, like, I think it's hard for people to gain perspective. And you've given me wonderful perspective because we've had so many conversations about it. But, like, my urges are just, they're different than yours. Right. You know, and I think that when we talk about like pain, like we know better than to judge your pain versus my pain. Right. My brother dying versus you having someone die in your life. There's no reason for us to compare those things. Maybe something hit me differently at a different time, or maybe

something hit you differently at a different time or maybe something hit you differently a different time maybe you have a different interpretation of uh those things but when when you go through a time where you're thinking about making a decision towards eating something that you already know is not in your best interest how fucking hard is that for you to block? And are you getting a little bit more successful at it? Or does it sometimes feel like, because you've lost like 60 pounds, maybe even a little bit more. You were 505 or 515, if you don't mind me saying. Right.

I was like 510, 550. Yeah. Yeah. And now you're 456 this morning. 456, yes. Fuck yeah. Thanks, man. So, right, this distinction between hunger and appetite is real.

Like hunger is pretty manageable, right? You feel the sensations of hunger in your gut. It's a little rumble in the tummy, a little uncomfortable. You're like, oh, I'm hungry. I should eat or I want to eat or whatever. But appetite is like a different thing. Appetite, I was trying to – I was listening to your guest today and like I feel appetite in the back of my head. It's like a tingle.

It's a drive. It's a drive like, you know, you're stressed. You're stressed. You need to eat. You're stressed. You need to eat. It's broken. I mean, I know it's broken.

But sometimes, and I was trying to explain this to Mark the other day. I get nervous. You can be nervous as you'd like and you can cry and you can laugh and you can get mad you do whatever you'd like all this uh panic flop sweat i'm just gonna say it's tears and it'll be full fully accepted but like sometimes you get stressed and then you're dealing with like the nuances of that stress and then like this new monster shows up oh you really should eat that will kill the stress and then now you're fighting two fights in your own head and i i mean i've i it was the other night i think i might have texted you i literally had to yell at myself like this internal yelling like stop you are not going to act out on this

desire to binge eat trash food right now you know and I hope as I get cleaner and I get better at this and my gut biome and my neurochemistry and my pathways in my brain, that, you know, hopefully I can form new pathways and defeat this once and for all. I certainly hope that's not going to just be a lifetime of battles. When you do lose though, you're not losing the same way. It's less, right? When you are having a binge, from what I understand, it doesn't seem like it's anything like what you were doing maybe previously.

I identified a long time ago that there is just this broken autopilot that drives my appetite. And whenever I let go of the wheel, it just wants to just take me to this you know bad places and i just have to fight it you know i maybe you're right maybe the habits are starting to change i hope so you know it's been a lifelong fight some years i'm more focused

than others in fighting this fight this year i've been pretty focused last year i've been pretty focused and uh the gains are coming slow but i have to keep pushing right so how long has it been you lost about 60 pounds or so and how long has that taken you because that's always the question how long did it take i know i mean it's been like almost a year and a half yeah but what i have gained is so much more mobility like in in spite of my flat sweat right now. And the ability to walk around the block. Well, that's all I was going to say. We only like kind of partially walked around the building first time, I think. I used to get very winded just going back and forth to the dumpster outside our house.

Chris wanted to take me for a walk one time. We started at your front door. By the back door, I was like, hey, man, I'm sorry, but I don't want to see what happens another 100 yards down the road. And he was always really cool about it and so forth. And now we do the walk. We do the one-mile walk. So, I mean, my mobility, my ability to stay active and hold a little certain level of just not being, you know,

of light activity has really gone up a lot. And, like, of course, I want to lose more weight and I want to open up more opportunities in my life, you know, of light activity has really gone up a lot. And like, of course, I want to lose more weight and I want to open up more opportunities in my life. You know, I want to go on a roller coaster someday, right? With my kids. But just being able to go walk and I mean, I know it sounds silly. No, it doesn't. It can be so easily taken for granted.

But I was right on the edge. You know, I was pretty unmovable before COVID. COVID hit. I got super paranoid, big fatty. Everything inside said, you know, you need to, this now or never, right? Now or never. But I just found myself staying inside all the time,

ordering food in, afraid to go out and get COVID. You know, didn't like to wear the mask because you think I look bad right now. I get so claustrophobic when I wear a mask. Yeah. I feel my hot air coming back to my face. You're in the checkout aisle in the grocery store. You know, everyone's like, oh, look at the fatty. What's the fatty got in their grocery cart, right? And everyone wants to get so tight. And I would just have these, like this panic attack right now is a mild one. I would have major ones at the grocery store.

I started ordering everything in. And I don't know if I've even told you. I'm like about 15 pounds away from losing my COVID weight. That's how bad. I gained just over a year. I gained like 80 pounds in just over a year. So it would just be, but what do you do right you don't roll over yeah you know i have things i want to do in my life i have kids to look to love and look after

a wife i want to share my life with that's been the cool thing is that you've still been doing it yeah we and we've talked about that like the only way for you to fail or for you to lose is for you to quit right exactly i haven't quit like you might have a day that's bad you might have two days that's bad or whatever it might be still get back on plan like you're checking in with me and my brother we're kind of starting to do that for each other like every day and just trying to stay on top of it because if you don't stay out in front of it you know what could happen is is not great right yeah i mean it snowballs fast right it snowballs fast that i just have to be very intentional and and learn how to fight this fight against the appetite better right have a plan have have have healthier sources to relieve

my stress call text a buddy yeah you know go for a walk you know do other things do other things so ignore that thing that says hey you know you need to eat your feelings right now and i was telling you guys this the other day eating your feelings is such like a passive way to say it to people that you kind of hope they'll understand without diving too deep in it. But when you dive deep in it, man, it's nasty. It's really nasty. What would your advice be to somebody who's like younger, younger and looks like they're quite overweight or they're younger and obese

and they – when we're young, I i'm young i think i have a lot of time for a lot of shit right right right well what would your advice be to that type of person i think you don't know what you're doing to your joints i think you don't know how like yeah i mean uh any any uh and i wasn't an athletic kid but i was able to play a little bit of football as a kid right you could run a little bit and you feel like like a tank. You feel indestructible. You're the kid in the neighborhood that other people jump on your shoulder and you carry them around. And that's like, oh, wow, Russell can carry all three of us? They only weigh 80 pounds and I weigh 140. Yeah, of course. And you feel indestructible, right? You're in your 20s and people go, no, you can't move.

You go, I'm pretty fast for a big guy. And you move and you show them like, okay, pretty fast. Not fast, but faster than what they thought. And then all of a sudden – You still move pretty well and you're strong. You're very strong. Very strong. I'm strong for a guy that doesn't work out.

You work out, dog. That's the problem. Strong for a guy that doesn't work out. You work out, dog. That's the problem. And then like all of a sudden, man, you just lose it. I don't know if it's your stem cells or your mitochondria, whatever. You just don't recover.

Whatever damage you did to your tendon, to your ankle, it just doesn't come back as fast as it did before. You start compounding little tiny injuries. And either you have like a big one or you just get tore apart and you stop moving and it just gets worse and you keep eating big and you're not moving anymore. And then it just gets out of control. So you thought you had time and you really didn't. So to these young people that think it's okay to like glorify obesity and to like normalize it like yeah we want to love each other these these moral judgments of who someone is i i'm constantly annoyed at it right and it's it goes up and down the chains of influencers of who who says that sort of stuff but uh you know i would say like obese people can be smart. They can be strong.

They can be driven. They can have iron wills, but it's not in. People can find attractiveness in different bodies. Yeah. But being obese, we're not talking thick with three C's. Being obese is not good for your body. Breaks down your joints, shortens your lifespan. Don't glamorize it.

So, yeah what about uh people that are kind of fake fat like people that aren't that fat like sometimes when you see somebody talking about like the fat movement or whatever you sometimes like this person ain't even that fat like what the fuck are they talking about well i mean that's just sort of like uh we've idolized with social media these one in a million people, and we consider them the norm. I'm not looking at you. I'm not looking at you. I'm not looking at you.

Until you said that, I didn't think you were. But now I'm like, did he look at me for a few seconds extra? It was a pause. And I think we've thrown out the BMI scale a long time ago. So there's a lot of – it's a muddy conversation, right? So I don't mind fake fatties. Fake fatties, fake natties. I'm cool.

Rostro is shade. Hey, how did we get here? What is your favorite food? Like what – you know, like what – Okay. Let's transition. transition okay okay here we go no you're not don't get too excited about it god well i can't god bless her grandma's famous spaghetti uh spaghetti sauce is gone and left with her yeah she didn't share the recipe i mean

i've seen it uh but it's not the same you start with you start with tomato paste you throw in like about two pounds of a chunk of cheddar cheese and some seasoning and you just let it simmer all day long all day long she never just like went and cracked the jar right she like left the house and she made about two gallons at a time wow kept it in the fridge so it was always waiting for you always waiting for you and then uh you went – That must have been good. It like coagulates. Yeah. It thickens a bit.

Yeah. I became a drive-thru junkie, right? After work, stressful job in sales because I'm not so smart and didn't do well in school, so I did sales instead. And you start just living off a drive-thru, and that's not good for you, right? I don't believe so. Now, that's what you and your brother did that was so special is you guys at least kind of went on this campaign like, well, if you're stuck in the drive-thru movement, at least here's how you can sort of – Get that flying Dutchman, yeah. Get the flying Dutchman, go protein-style lettuce wraps, and that's sort of like how I got reintroduced to the Bell Bros, right?

I mean, I'd seen Chris's movies. I'd seen you guys on Joe Rogan. But then I see your guys' Instagram, and you're like, the war on carbs, man. You can do this. You're like, they're speaking my language. Yeah, you really are. But, I mean, now I've drive-thrus. I've just been getting riveted.

I've been transitioning to just doing as much at home as possible. The hamburger salad. Hamburger salad. You saw it, right? Hamburger salad. And I have to use a measuring cup when I grab shredded cheese because apparently this is not a great measure. Seven handfuls.

I guess that's not an eighth of an ounce. I don't know. It's probably right. You have big hands too, brother. Just round up. That's all. Thank you. So grandma's spaghetti sauce.

What else we got? Okay. So you want to know. I'm up. That's all. Thank you. So grandma's spaghetti sauce. What else we got? Okay. So you want to know. I'm a salt guy, not a sweet guy. I don't think you're kind of sweet. Sweet for you. I mean the salt stuff. Chips, pizza, you know.

Stuff like that. Oh, kind of chips. Okay. So what day of the week is it? What are we doing? Are we watching a movie? Are we watching NFL? Watching UFC.

Is it you didn't want to make dinner, so you're getting some Fritos and some bean dips? Oh, okay. Keep going. Fritos are healthy. They only have three ingredients. Okay, listen. Nothing gives me heartburn in the world like Fritos corn chips. It's like the only thing that gives me heartburn

but uh dude but those those big thick ones scoops those are oh with the bean dip dude yes and what kind of cheese on top of the bean dip though oh you're so bougie i am i am a lowbrow human i just cracked it i just cracked the can and go to work you're just a straight Frito guy? With bean dip. With bean, okay, okay, okay, okay. He doesn't want the cheese with the bean dip because he doesn't want to like muffle the bean dip flavor. And listen, I'm not mad at it.

I will still go at a can of Pringles. I'm not afraid of Pringles. I'm not afraid of Pringles. Pringles are dangerous. They're good. They're a good dog. What about pizza? How do you like your pizza?

Large. Are you mainly like a cheese pizza guy or like a specialty thing going on? Listen, and I will die on this hill. Best pizza you can get is ham, bacon, onions, pineapple. Okay. I'll die on that hill. I don't care what you say. You can – Russell, hey, we have onions, pineapple. Okay. I'll die on that hill. I don't care what you say. You can, like, Russell, hey, we have some pepperoni and mushrooms.

Do you want it? Yeah, sure. Like, yes. The answer is always yes. But ham, bacon, onions, and pineapple, that's really my guy. Ham and bacon. Oh, yeah. Have you guys ever just gotten just, like, all the meats?

Whenever I get pizza like yeah now i'll give you some pepperoni add some ground beef like there's these spots where you can just keep going oh it's just go on meat you know what was the name of that pizza place that was over here you remember oh it had yeah it had like a dumb name fork on the yeah we could never remember it was like woman's name it was like western something and we're like oh is this barbecue and it's like no it's pizza and it was really good we're lucky it closed it was down the street from yeah he takes me out he always keeps me online he's always always make sure i'm on the team whenever he takes me out we try to have lunch together maybe every go for like a bbq bbq is a nice way to go i'm not i'm still not opposed to having the big

salad right big salad, right? Big salad. I mean, I know that people question me, is that optimal? It's a lot better than the French fries. So, yeah, I'm working towards that. But, yeah, yeah. So, you're lifting. You're getting in some 10-minute walks.

Right. A lot of what I've been doing lately, too, is just trying to fix a lifetime of being obese and couch surfing. And my hips were pretty messed up. So I spent about the last nine months just getting into all these different stretchings that I've learned watching your podcast, Chris, Andrew, Andrew's Instagram, the go-to guys. There was a lot of opening up the hips and getting more mobility, which helps, right?

That's been a big part of it. Just trying to be able to walk without pain. And I will say I've noticed in the last few months, it seems like I'm not dealing with the chronic feet pain. Yeah, your feet were really bothering you a lot, right? Really bad. I mean, really, really bad. It's not as bad.

It might just be like maybe I'm back under a certain level of weight where my body is handling a little bit better, a lot of knee strengthening. You're walking more, so your feet are definitely getting stronger. I'm not walking a whole lot more. Okay, okay. I'm

riding some bikes here and there, lifting here and there. Yeah, we've talked about this a bunch because how do you exercise if your feet are banged up? And we just kind of decided let's maybe not worry about too much walking unless you feel really good. Instead, we'll get on a bike. I don't sleep very well, so I use this Fitbit to track my sleep. But I do see value in like the heart rate and the pedometer thing. And I start getting over chronically over 8,000, 9,000, 10,000 steps and my feet start to fade.

So if I'm feeling ambitious, then I get on my bicycle and go from there. And we talked about that before too, where it's like, even if you get ambitious, let's be maybe a little careful because we don't want to be ambitious on Monday and then be half dead by Wednesday. That's what a lot of people I've bounced across in social media. dead by Wednesday. That's what a lot of people I've bounced across in social media. They recognize this middle-aged older guy that at least at some point could move around a little bit, had it, and trying to get it back. And a lot of people identify with that. And that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to, you know, this, you got to check your ego out. You know, this work hard, train hard, work work hard train hard i mean middle age sometimes starts playing a role in that conversation if you haven't taken care of yourself along the

way right and so i'm trying to make up for uh lost ground right now so i i want to i want to work hard train hard you know what i mean like i want that but you know i get i start feeling my ego in any way in your gym so that's why a lot of times I don't go to the open gym. I'm blessed enough to have access to your gym. Thank you. Kind of whenever the sun's up. Whenever you want. And I have to honor my pace.

So team turtle, train slow, start low. You know what I mean? I have to do all that stuff. start low you know what i mean like i have to do all that stuff so and otherwise it's not it you know the knees the knees knees ankle feet they that pain is a mother wow i mean people really undersell what chronic pain can do to your life it's you told me that it's uh humiliating um being trapped by the thoughts that you're trapped by yeah i mean absolutely who wants to admit that there's this like a mr hyde in your own ear yelling you yelling at you to do crazy stuff right that's it's uh but that's what it feels like it feels like someone else is like almost

kind of controlling. Yeah. It's it. I mean, of course there's the whole, like, I mean this whole idea that it's, I mean, my obesity is very multifaceted Mark.

I mean, sometimes the answer, the fight is like, I just don't want to like pig out, eat French fries, whatever. A lot of times it's, Oh my God,

I'm stressed. Oh, you should eat. That would fix your stress it's wild it's insane and it's a battle that sometimes you don't want to fight does it feel like it works like when you do eat does it feel like like when you're done kind of eating something do you feel like like some sort of release or are you just like fuck man why both right yeah both probably a little serotonin gets let in and then a little regret gets let in right after right so but that but that monster's quieted fucking deadly loop yeah it is it is brutal what um i mean how have you handled because we were talking about this earlier with Spencer, because I can't think of his last name. Nadolski.

Nadolski, sorry, sir. You know, because he was giving the analogy of like, oh, I popped one tire, so I'm going to go slash the other tires. So like when that voice comes and then maybe you do answer him, how do you get back on your horse and be like no fuck that guy like i'm gonna finish the day uh strong or even tomorrow i'm gonna start strong and you know not even uh pay attention to that voice you have to i mean i think you have to seek inspiration you have to like you know i there is there is there are some good benefits to social media right you find somebody like like Mark, somebody that you admire, someone you follow. I mean, I could honestly – I don't want to start the list because it just won't end.

But you find someone that's out there doing it. You find someone that's giving you a piece of good coaching. You get some sleep, right? Sleep it off. Wake up. Fresh perspective. And you have to know your whys. Every day you have to know why am I doing this?

Why am I doing this why am i doing this and and uh maybe that's a cliche but i think it's really true so i mean you just you have to get up try again right because like you said you only it only it only fails if you stop trying right i'm not so i'm not uh, impressed with the gains I've made. I don't think I've made like super fast, impressive gains, but I'm proud and I'm happy, not content, but I'm happy. I feel good. I can move better. I feel good that I can get in a 20, 30, 45 minute workout of just steady movement and not, and not walk away from it limping. You know, that's important, right? That's really important. But having a plan, you can important right that's really important but having a plan you can't uh you have to have a plan on what the diet is right some people don't seem to know how to wing the diet you can't just you know you have to have a plan and you have to do everything to

stick to the plan right i don't have a natural intuitiveness on how much to eat and what to eat i know i know that there's a lot of conversations on eat intuitively and just – You do track your stuff, right? I do. Yeah, I track my stuff. You've tried to like not track it and then you just found that like tracking it, it works great. It works best for you. I find counting the calories just helps.

It just keeps my mindfulness. Anything to keep that autopilot from kicking in. Because that autopilot messes me up. So you don't want to become obsessive about it. And there's a balance to everything. Have you found that you had to leave a certain identity behind? Because I know, I'll just use myself as an example. You love video games too, you love video games

too. I love video games. I can't fuck with video games. The more successful this podcast gets, the less video games I get to play. Yeah. So that's kind of a bummer, but I also am in a way better place now. So I know a lot of people that when it comes to making big life changes, they almost don't want to because they're kind of scared of who maybe they could become. But do you feel like you had to leave anyone behind? Anyone as far as, like, I mean yourself. Like, did you have to leave somebody behind and be, like, kind of more uncomfortable with things? Yeah. I mean, me personally, I started getting into games a few years ago, again, because I was a stay-at-home dad with my kids.

My kids were in their therapy and taking them, you know, Mr. Dad and all that stuff. And I needed a hobby. I needed some communication with people. But I found it just became too much of a life suck, you know. My kids need to do their homework. And instead of me helping them with their homework, I'm like, oh, I got to get on with the fellas and do my games tonight. I've gamed all but none these last couple months just because it was um

it'd become a distraction for me so you got to let those things behind you right and also I I speculated I get super super tilted for your gamers out there that know what that means and then that seemed like I'm stressed I want to eat like the night's over let me eat let me watch some tv let me put on let me put on Mark Bell's Power Project and learn about being healthy while I eat these chips, right? So I had to let it go. Yeah, I had to let it go. Yeah, it's maybe a habit forming, right? Because the game and the food maybe go together a little bit.

I'm identifying stress and food go together really. And anything that brings stress brings and yeah and that might even be like a broader definition of stress like people talk about positive life events is stressful right i i have to break that that connection talking can be stressful like just doing this show like even though we're used to it right talk a lot you know you do two and two every day for a couple days in a row and it can uh it can manifest and you might not want it to show up you might have a nice interpretation of it but it's still most likely is going to show up somewhere right right right yeah it's uh leaving the old leaving your old self behind if I mean, taking up new habits, right? And these are some of the, I think I discredited the ritual benefits

of the 10-minute walks in the morning. I really did it first. But those are the kind of things, this new endeavor, this new life that you're trying to live to better yourself. And probably 99% of your listeners don't need a complete reset like I need in my life. Just for some people, it's just probably just trying to get a little bit better, a little healthier.

Those things help. They move the needle. I mean, I'm learning it. I was very skeptical. I was very skeptical. But I mean, since doing that stuff, the change has been coming. Yeah, what I'm excited about

is that you're right in the zone where I believe that you are craving the movement. Right. And I know sometimes you're deterred from it because it's 5,000 degrees outside or a knee or foot or something might bother you. But for the most part, you've been wanting to move more. You're talking about your bike. You'll send me a picture of your bike. You're like, I bike today.

You'll send me a video of you lifting in your garage gym. You built a gym at your house. You've gone out of your way to make movement a part of your daily routine. Right. Well, I mean, I know the whys. I'm not walking 30 yards to get to my garage and going, oh, my God, this feels far. I know the whys. Training brings freedom for me.

It does because I know what sitting on the couch all day does. It makes my hips sore. It makes me weaker and fatter. I can't move around. And, again, I know a lot of people aren't in my spot, but quite a few are. And, unfortunately, that's getting bigger and bigger and bigger right and for me i wasn't i want to be clear it wasn't my lack of moving that brought this to me though this it was my binge eating you know and i think the binge eating

sort of took away my movement and now i'm as i fight them both i'm getting i'm getting victory you kind of always like the gym right for a pretty long time i mean i've i've always you know i wasn't i played a little bit of football and former military i was in the army for a while yeah i uh yeah i said i wanted to see the world and i saw alabama so i mean it's so far back for me now these these men and women what they do it's nothing like what i did i was in and out before anything happened but yeah but go for a run do some push-ups do some flutter kicks it's a whole different they do a whole different set of stuff now but yeah very cool andrew take us on out of here buddy absolutely thank you everybody for checking out today's episode uh please drop us

some comments uh this conversation got pretty deep that was really nice uh so let us know what you guys think about today's episode and make sure you guys like today's episode and subscribe if you guys are not subscribed already please follow the podcast at mb power project on instagram tiktok and twitter my instagram tiktok and twitter is at i am andrew z and sema where you at and sema ending on instagram youtube and cd yin yang on tiktok and twitter go to the discord now over 2 000 people killing it a lot of people russ where can people find you russell buddy on all the social medias and on the chris bell show on all of your favorite podcast forums i'm at mark's millie bell strength is never weakness weakness never strength

catch you guys later bye bye bye