Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 271 - Kenny K.O.

Episode Date: October 21, 2019

Kenny Boulet aka. Kenny K.O. is a YouTuber and competitive bodybuilder. Kenny K.O. is the host of his own YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY69alzEzYns8cnGdtn0z6A) where he focuses on being 100% honest about the tropes of the fitness industry and calling out those who are “fake nattys”, or using photoshop to unrealistically portray their physique, as well as reporting on current events within the fitness and bodybuilding community. Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Visit our sponsors: ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Perfect Keto: http://perfectketo.com/powerproject Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 15% off your order! ➢Quest Nutrition: https://www.questnutrition.com/ Use code "MARKSQUEST" at checkout for 20% of your order! ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/  Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

And I've been still cooking up that Piedmontese. I ain't getting tired of it. Cooked up two burgers last night as I waited for my wife to cook up dinner. I know that sounds really fat, but I was on like 18 hours of fasting. So I cooked up some burgers, threw some cheese on them, grass-fed burgers. Piedmontese has a lot of great options. I've been digging the ribeye, the filet. And I'm hearing that the sliders are really good.

I haven't gotten around to eating sliders yet. I'm getting excited about that. But I had some of the hamburger patties last night, and they were awesome. Yeah, I had a ribeye yesterday. Again, I think it was a ribeye cap. That's what it's called. It's like a ribeye cap steak. I love it, man.

They're so good. I know Fat Little Smoke he's been talking about the uh sliders a lot yeah and now mark just mentioned slider so uh i think this week i'm gonna put an order for a bunch of those sliders sliding right into pete montes's dms and asking them for some sliders but i i do need more like real talk i need more rib eyes like the rib eyes are so good i'm done with the Like yo, we need some help over here. Yeah. Piedmontese, they're doing something different.

Somehow they added extra protein to their meat, but took out all, not all the fat. They took out a lot of the fat in comparison to what you would get at a regular grocery store. It's laughable how much better it is. If you guys want to get in on that, it's P-I-E-D-M-O-N-T-E-S-E.com. That's piedmontese.com. At checkout P-M-O-N-T-E-S-E.com. At checkout, enter promo code POWERPROJECT. That'll get you 25% off your entire order. And if it's $99 or more, you get free two-day shipping.

Order today. You'll be grilling by Friday night. And what about those Quest bars? Quest cookies, Quest chips, Quest pizza, all the yummy stuff from Quest. Again, another thing that doesn't make a lot of sense to me how it's so good but how it's so healthy i don't know don't want to ask questions though lots of fiber too well the stuff uh tastes good that like we have to like control ourselves with it you know like if i'm gonna have a quest bar what i normally do

is i normally just take one home from here because if I have a box around, I'm going to end up in the same position I'd end up in if I had a box of cookies. I'm going to end up eating them all. But they have a reasonable amount of calories, moderate amount of fat, very low carbohydrate because it's primarily fiber and has a good amount of protein in it. So I've always loved Quest Nutrition's's products they have a lot of great products they have the regular kind of old school quest bar and they have tons of flavors one of my favorite ones is the donut one and then um for those of you that have never tried a hero bar you gotta you gotta get rid of those zeros and get yourself a hero you know i'm talking about that.

It's good. Yeah. Those things are really good. Those might be the best bars on the planet. Yeah. People at, at expos or following Mark with a camera around. Oftentimes I have survived just off of a quest bars.

Um, and it's, it, it sounds like I'm saying something bad, but it was actually kind of awesome. Those days actually look forward to, uh, if you guys want to get in on that,

head over to question quest, nutrition.com at checkout enter promo code mark's quest for 20 yeah 20 off all of these bars that we're talking about the chips the protein the cookies everything is delicious and you can get that all for 20 off yummy and then we also got our boys over at perfect keto yeah buddy appreciate uh their support it's great to have uh mct oil that doesn't blow your butthole out they have mct oil powder for those of you that have tried mct oil before and you're like nah i can't have that ever again the powder seems to have a much different reaction with a lot of people. So that's a great product. They have whey protein. They have collagen protein that tastes really good.

They have keto bars. It's hard to find snacks on a ketogenic diet. It's hard to find not even a snack but really just anything that's sweet, anything that's just different that's not – most of the food you're going to eat is like savory. It's like eggs and meat, and those things are great, and those things hit certain parts of your palate that make you get excited, get you fired up. But, you know, with Perfect Keto, they have some options to get rid of that sweet tooth.

Yeah. Like that cinnamon bar. Oh, the cinnamon roll. Cinnamon roll. Yeah. Just the texture and the consistency of those is really good. And I do now see what you're talking about in terms of the cookie dough one it's cookie dough right yeah i see what you're talking about it made a comeback yeah it's like um i can't explain it it doesn't

have the same consistency as the cinnamon roll but it's because of that there's something to it it's got the the big old chunks of chocolate chips when you when you bite into it just like oh like that crunchiness to it and it's there And there's bites where I'm like, okay, I got nothing but chocolate. There's no way this is okay to eat. It's freaking delicious. Yeah. It's got like 11 grams of collagen in it. Have you guys had the collagen protein mix with like yogurt?

No, I didn't do that. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, the salted caramel. I mixed that in some regular plain yogurt and it was amazing. It'll light your face on fire. Let me try that out. Yeah, it salted caramel. I mixed that in some regular plain yogurt, and it was amazing. It'll light your face on fire. I need to try that out. Yeah, it's amazing. If you guys want to give it a go, head over to perfectketo.com slash powerproject at checkout.

Enter promo code powerproject. That'll get you 15% off everything we just talked about and whatever else they got on the website. It's kind of amazing. What do we got over there, Andrew? You know how to hit those buttons? I'm still working on it. Kenny can show you. He's got a setup like do we got over there, Andrew? You know how to hit those buttons? Kenny can show you. He's got a setup like that too, I think, right?

Sort of. I think you've got more than I do, honestly. You've got nice lights on your microphone. See how your guys' microphone is all the way around? Yeah, sounds like it. Yeah, they're dynamic, so you've got to stay close. Yeah. Yeah, but we don't have shock mounts like your fancy one. I seen that on your video. Oh, you guys don't, huh Yeah. But we don't have shock mounts like your fancy one. I've seen that on your video.

Oh, you guys don't, huh? No, we don't need it. You can raise it. You can't really hear it that bad, though. I doubt anyone's, like, bashing the table over here. Every once in a while. I think Tony Hughes left some needles under the table, too. Right underneath there.

Oh, we used them yesterday. Oh, we did use them. Yeah, we used them. I mean, wait, hold on. Wait, what? We used them, but we. Oh, we did use them. Yeah, we used them. I mean, wait, hold on. Wait, what? We used them, but we didn't, like, use them. No. No, we wouldn't.

They were a prop. They were a prop. What did we use them for? IPF commercial. Ah, okay. Yeah, they fell out of my fanny pack. Oh, man, that's hilarious. You know, you could raise that mic.

It feels... Oh, yeah. Yeah, you just gotta... Oh, man. So there's the Right here Yep Yeah Why is Kenny K.O. so tall?

How does that sound? That sounds good Is Kenny K.O. tall because of IGF-1 Or growth hormone? I don't know the science of it all And then just crank it SARMS? It's a new protocol

And then crank it down hard I got you Yep Crank that bitch down hard Oh yeah crank it turning me on a lot of soldier boy here with all the crankings yeah oh that's right yeah crank that soldier boy yeah he's gone off the deep end has he a little bit yeah he was yeah he was selling uh like uh like the soldier super pirate didn't happen to dmx too he went off the

deep end too right oh he came back he He went off the deep end too, right? He really went off the deep end. But DMX came back. Soldier Boy, he was selling these bootleg video game systems saying that he got approval from Nintendo and Sega and they're like, dude, there's no way. It just ended up being an emulator.

Yeah, it was an emulator and he got sued pretty bad. So that was pretty good on him though. Anyways. Kenny KO. we're here with kenny ko today and uh super pumped to get uh down to business with you here and and try to figure out you know a bunch a bunch of different stuff about this uh wild thing we call the fitness industry but question number one right out of the gate kenny ko answer this as cleanly as you can. Are you or are you not a dick? This is exactly what I wanted, like between two ferns type style.

That's the type of content I'm trying to, that's what I was going for. I don't know if they told you. That's what I wanted to film with you. Like, I just want to be like the blunt, like dick, which is the awkward question and people get caught off guard and then see their response. Am I a dick? I don't think so in person but online i'm probably definitely portrayed as being a dick for sure uh is that

um does that keep you up at night ever like uh have you said certain things because it seems like um it seems like the content that you create um is going against something that someone's saying so it's viewed as negative, right? Right. And so there's maybe a swirl of negative energy surrounding it. Does that, you know, we're in this world today where everyone's talking about being positive and positivity, and you have to have all these positive thoughts. Is some of this controversy, does that sometimes give you anxiety or make it hard to sleep or how do you feel day to day?

I mean, there's only been probably a couple of situations off the top of my head that have, yeah, like affected my sleep. One was when I like called out Larry wheels before having like a hundred percent concrete evidence of anything. So if I make like a claim or a video off of just reflex and emotions and don't do like the due deal or due diligence of the full-on research before I publish the video then it's like it might sit uneasy with me other than that though I mean not so you're not really trying to hurt anybody no and it's like it's definitely viewed from both perspectives because obviously you're going to have the fan base of whoever I'm calling out trying to defend their idol and who they look up to regardless if that person did the worst

thing imaginable then you have like my audience who just wants like the truth and everything is just kind of looking at objectively. So it's like, you're going to have the controversy because there's going to be both parties kind of going against one another. You think maybe moving forward, you'll kind of stick to like natty or not rather than like maybe, I guess, interrogating someone's life on a more personal level i feel like the nadir nots kind of dying out now where people are starting to catch on it's becoming a trend and everyone's like you know i'm just going to be open about it because it's so much more accepted i feel like than it was say a few years ago because now you even have youtubers that are

making a channel or name off them or on themselves basically just saying and opening up to their audience. And they earn the respect of it, of just saying, hey, this is what I'm taking, this is what I'm doing, and this is how I'm making the progress I am. So it's like the dynamic has just really changed behind the view of it all, whereas I feel maybe five, ten years ago, you would never hear anyone talk about anything just because it was so, I guess, ridiculed more than it is now.

So from your point of view what you're trying to do is anytime anyone says something where you're like i think that's bullshit then you're just gonna look into it deeper yeah and it's not like i immediately know like there's something that might go off in my brain though i'm like whoa this looks a little bit suspicious and i need to as you mentioned you know dive in a little bit deeper and then if i start to find more evidence and more stuff and more people coming forward with, you know, proof of certain things and allegations, then it's like, I can kind of build more of a story and get at least as close as possible to what the actual truth behind it is. So like, how'd this start? Because like you

remind me or your channel reminds me of like Keemstar, you know, like a lot of people say, exactly. It's like the drama alert type fitness. So like how how did that start for you why did you want to pursue that route of creating that content was your content always like that or were you making fitness content at the beginning how like what was the start of it for you i mean personally i've always been someone who's enjoyed like drama alert type content i think there's always going to be those that audience out there, you know, where they want to see the drama, they want to see stuff that keeps them on the edge of their seat, you know, rivalries between two people, whether it's me and someone else, or maybe you and someone else. So I was always a big fan of that. And I think it just kind of transpired into what I created my channel to be is it's something I already like to watch.

So why not just talk about it and give my opinion on those types of be. Is it something I already like to watch? So why not just talk about it and give my opinion on those types of subjects? And obviously I made it more niche with going more in the fitness industry rather than just YouTube as a whole. But the fitness industry being as small as it is, it's like, there's so few big names that it's just really well known at that point. Okay. Um, I've seen some of the videos you know where you've talked about you mentioned larry wheels and i think that you actually took down the video yeah um and um i guess you had some uh allegations that you felt weren't um clear enough right is that kind of what happened like what what happened with larry wheels yeah so basically i took the video down

just out of respect for him um it was kind of shortly after the whole Jeremy Buendia situation and Larry Wheels ex-girlfriend came out with a video on YouTube basically saying, you know, that he abused her, all these different things. And before Larry gave his response, I looked at only one side of the story versus letting Larry, you know, waiting and having him publish his video and then kind of looking at objectively like okay who's more right what sounds more believable i just kind of went off of emotion of what she said because the tapes did sound pretty bad from you know at least my opinion and like i said i have emotion just filmed the video there's a tape released uh where they were like arguing or something right yeah and it was like him yelling at her and then the tape she keeps claiming, I think,

like, stop hitting me and all this different stuff. So it sounded really nasty for sure, but I still didn't have any proof. There wasn't any police reports. I didn't get to hear Larry Wheel's side of the story, because there's two sides to every story for every situation. So regardless of how bad something sounds, it could be totally misinterpreted. We've heard recently that there's three sides. There's your story, there's my story, and there's the truth. Right. So, and then, yeah, just out of respect for him after he made his

response, I was like, you know what? I didn't do the due diligence of doing the full on research before publishing this video. So regardless of his point in a mad amount of views, making me a good amount of money, I was like, I respect for him. I need to take this video down. That situation is tough in and of its own because like anybody can say what they want to say. And if there's like really no proof of like, there's no concrete evidence, like you don't know what sides take, right? You just know what word you want to take. Right. You know? And some people are really good at masking too. Like, uh, the, the fake, there's a lot of fakes out there that are just so good at masking it and make it so believable that it's hard to really catch them unless you have that concrete proof because they, it's almost as though they could pass a lie detector test

and be telling a total lie because they're just so good at having a good poker face and saying things the right way that you would totally 100 believe it so it's just really messed up that obviously there's a lot of these types of situations not just in fitness of course you know if you watch drama alert see it all the time with all the ace family stuff going on recently as well but i mean it has enough to at least give me a full-time job so are you natural i am at the moment yeah so you've taken stuff before oh yeah so you know what's actually funny though last time i was here i was so high from uh that's actually what i had to i had to tell like media they're like man he's he's really quiet in person like no no you don't

understand like he was blasted out of his mind. Me and Tony popped some edibles the night before. I never take any edibles. I think normal is what? Maybe 5 to 10 milligrams or something like that. I took like 50 and I just got thrashed.

I show up the next day when you guys are all training here and everyone's wanting to come up and say hi to me and I'm just a zombie. Your eyes were a bit bloodshot. Total opposite of like how I normally am on video. So everyone's like, yo, is he like a dick or is it something wrong with him? And I was just still so high trying to like come down after like 24 hours. I was like, holy shit, like this is awful.

I heard Joe Rogan talk about that before i've never i've never tried that before but joe rogan's talking about like the little gummy bears yeah and he's like they're deceptive he's like i guess i was supposed to just nibble on like the foot of the bear he's like but i ate the whole head and the guy's like what are you doing he's like i don't know like why'd they make them this fucking potent yeah no they're deceptive because they taste exactly like the candy sometimes and then you have no idea and then these are good like 30 minutes later you're just on a whole nother level so but yeah jumping back to i guess like the natty or not um i was running some sarms doing my contest

prep because i did two shows this year and then i decided a couple weeks ago i just want to go natural kind of and not only just natural from like SARMs and anabolics and everything like that but also like caffeine just total like body cleanse detox resensitize to everything and then kind of give my body just some time off to relax this is some hard shit to figure out right here what's natural to you that's the fucking question you know when somebody's like on the fence like I mean someone takes like uh because everyone has a different opinion I mean even probably just us three could probably have a different opinion on what we think is natural. So it's like I think once you've taken something, you're not a lifetime natural, but there might be periods where, say, you go natural. But if someone's to ask you, are you natural, I think you kind of need to be like, I haven't been my entire life, but I am at the moment.

When I was a kid and – Because there are people that do that. When I was a kid, I competed in the AD adfpa which is now the usatl so i competed in that shit before it was what it is now but the adfpa they had a lifetime drug-free category and i was always like what's like you know what's i as a kid i didn't know what that i would like didn't know what that meant i'm like what's that mean and then one of the older guys was like well he's like it just means you haven't really taken anything in like a really long time and i didn't even know what that meant. I'm like, what's that mean? And then one of the older guys was like, well, it just means you haven't really taken anything in a really long time. And I didn't even know what he meant. A really long time?

Yeah, I'm like, what do you mean I haven't taken anything in a really long time? And I guess they were saying, like, if you've been off of shit for, like, about five years, you can just claim your lifetime natural. I'm like, why is there even a category for that? Why don't they just test people? You're a born-again natty. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That doesn't make much sense because even if you take stuff, if you're off for five years or whatever,

you will keep some of that muscle that you've managed to put on. It doesn't just all disintegrate. Yeah, that's the plan to maintain it. Exactly. Right. So it's interesting. Yeah, no. It's a weird thing, but you wouldn't be able to test for,

if it was out of someone's system, you wouldn't be able to test for you know if it's out of someone's system you wouldn't be able to really tell i mean you'd be surprised too i've interviewed people on my channel where i'll do like a natty or not series and say hey are you natural and they'll be like yeah and i'm like okay so you've never taken like starms pro hormones and they're like oh no i take starms and i'm like what like okay you're not natural and they're like why is that considered you're not natural it has to be like steroids i'm like oh my god i was just telling these guys perception of it's so different i was just telling these guys when i was in pro wrestling if you weren't on three things at once and you were clean guys would be like man i've been off forever and like dude

y'all you really you look great and like well i'm still on some tests you know yeah they just weren't they just weren't on a full uh a full cycle of stuff as long as you're not on the triple threat yeah there you go you know i've seen also too on your channel i've seen you talking about some females and stuff too so then it it kind of raises the question it's like well what's the difference between fake tits and steroids you know like what like that's like that's fake and that's getting a certain goal and objective uh across with with your physique and with your body and so are steroids. So it's like, you know, where do we draw the line on some of this? You know, the female competitors

that are competing in a lot of these figure and fitness competitions, they're not winning unless they have fake boobs, right? Right. That's funny, because we actually had a talk about that recently. But I think just the big difference is if they lie about it, but I think it'd be kind of hard if you have like a super fake boob job and you're like, nah, they're real. Yeah, right. But like I honestly have nothing against anyone who uses it. I mean, because obviously like I take stuff. Like that'd be hypocritical if I was like, I can take stuff.

But no, you can't. That's messed up. You just don't want to see people swerving people. I'm totally fine. People can do whatever they want with their body, you know, whatever it may be. want with their body, you know, whatever it may be. But if you, if you lie about it is the thing that like bothers me. Cause obviously, especially if you have a super large following and people who look up to you and strive to have your physique and want to be everything like you, and you're giving them this false hope of what you did to get there, then it just really sets

them up for failure down the road. So it's just the matter of lying about it. If they're open about it, you will probably never see them on my channel unless it's something good or like a collaboration because I have nothing to call them out about. How can you tell? Like, let's use someone that we're friends with. Let's use someone like Michael Hearn, right? It's just so like... He actually followed me on Instagram.

I was pretty hype about it. Yeah, well, we love Michael Hearn and I don't care if he does them or doesn't. I don't really care what his thing is. But, you know, he's told us all that he's been natural for a really long time. And I would love to believe that you can be that big and that strong and that lean naturally.

But like, what's something that you see where you're like, ah, you know, I just, I don't really buy it because most people that are natural fall into this other category. It's usually if they're like contest condition shredded

year-round while also making like progress so i mean mike doesn't do that right he's not contest shredded year-round at least from what i see unless he like recycles photos no well he does that quite a bit but like he mike is uh probably like as lean as he gets probably about once a year maybe maybe so he does like preps then but like if you were just to go visit him like randomly like one time he would be fucking big and swole and and another time he would just be like all diced up when we saw him he was a little bit in between he was he was he was starting starting to come back down but he's kind of the master of that and every time i train with him i'm like man why don't i just work on getting bigger like i'm a lot of time because i came down from 330 pounds i've been

working on you know getting leaner and just basically getting smaller um and then every once in a while when i train with him i'm like fuck why don't i just kind of do what he does but like he goes up and down quite a bit yeah see he's the i think he's forever going to be the controversial athlete of Natty or not. Right. Just because he's been around for so long, done so much, and has claimed it for so long, along with obviously having the strength and the physique that most guys, I think, would probably want to strive for. So let's get a few other things down.

So you said if they're super lean all the time year-round, that might be a sign that they're using. And there are some guys that are just naturally leaner than others. But I agree with that statement. I think that's fair that there might be some smoke surrounding that one. And then what else have we got? Normally, I'll look for certain types of side effects. So if they have a – I don't really necessarily look at gyno because personally I had gyno since I was early teens before I'd ever touched anything. So, but if they develop gyno out of nowhere, say they're, you know, in their thirties or late twenties and out of nowhere, they just pop up gyno.

That's like a huge red flag to me. Or like a random breakout of acne, male pattern baldness, certain extent, but that's also genetic based. Almost like kind of what I've noticed is almost like blotchy skin. Right. It's kind of hard to describe, but there's like a, a white, like for the guys that are Caucasian, it's like a whitish, reddish, speckled tone to it almost. Right.

So, and then along with that, like I said, you know, just like the contest condition year round. And obviously it depends what you're doing. You know, you could have power lifters who I'm sure are taking stuff that was nowhere near stepping on a bodybuilding stage. But they're going to be taking stuff for, you know, to contribute to what they're trying to do and accomplish. So Michael Hearn is just forever, I think, going to be the golden one to look at. Oh, I saw Todd on there too with Icon. But I actually like michael

hearn and also there's a big misconception that people think i hate these people i don't think i don't think you have any choice but to like michael hearn if you ever met him in person ever hung out with him or ever trained with him right yeah i mean anyone that's ever trained with him oh i don't know his training at all people might think whatever they want about him but if you ever worked out with him you realize how much he like he just he just he loves to lift he loves the nutrition side of all this and he does make you wonder because you're like well i just kind of wonder if i was that dedicated because he's so on point with it all the time he never misses a meal he's always getting his sleep and you're just like man i don't makes you kind of like you know scratch your head and then when he gets in shape like that when he's

lean like that you're like oh i don't know you know i don't know if that's possible right you know on the note of possible though guys like i think we talked about this before why is it that within i guess fitness right we have some people that are just like genetically gifted for it even if they've been lifting for five years they managed to put on more muscle than a guy who's been lifting for 10 but you know there's a there are tribes in, like the Dinka people in Sudan, they average around 6'4 in terms of the male height. You got guys like Zion Williamson, who's 19 years old, 6'5, 270 pounds in the NBA. Young kid. He had a growth spurt and he can jump out of the gym. Imagine if Zion stopped playing basketball, got into a gym five days a week and just was like, I want to become fucking big.

That kid would be 300 and something pounds with like and probably still jump out of a gym. Maybe a pro strongman athlete. Maybe a pro. He could be any kind of fucking athlete he wanted to be. So my thing is, why are we so when we look at the fitness industry and we see individuals that have amazing physiques if they're you know over here saying oh this supplement helped me get hella big okay you're a douchebag because we know that's not true but why are we so skeptical about genetic variants here but in literally every other sport or

professional sport oh lebron james he's that big that he's tall we celebrate it actually and you get paid more money for it exactly you know so i'm just like what is all like why right i see that pretty prevalent in the ufc too lately is until um nate diaz called out and kind of opened the door about everyone taking steroids and made like that bold claim that everyone's doing it. Now, see, someone like Nate Diaz, though, I agree with Nate Diaz, and that's cool that he's saying that, but look at Nate Diaz. He doesn't look like anything, so maybe Nate Diaz is just a hater.

Maybe he's like, well, look at this guy. Of course he's on shit because he's way more jacked than me, and it's like, well, of course a lot of people are more jacked than me. Yeah, right. Yeah, so it's just really tough and i think it's definitely yeah more of a big thing i'd say in the bodybuilding industry and it's not really looked at in like you know the other sports aspects unfortunately but maybe as you know more time comes on it'll start to bring more light to it even with my brother's movie you know bigger stronger faster just kind of the way everything unfolded from that.

And kind of like Mark McGuire, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa era. I mean, Sammy Sosa was still trying to claim he was natural. And he was just like, dude, just give it up. Everyone else pretty much came forward. Bonds just never said anything, which you can kind of, I think, read between the lines on that. The weird thing about Barry Bonds is he was never let go by the Giants. He never officially retired. He's the greatest baseball player perhaps of all time,

and he just kind of stopped playing. And then if you go to a San Francisco Giants game, which I've been to one in the last two years, when he's there and they announce him, the fans go fucking wild for him. Fans go crazy for him. Yeah, they built the stadium because he was left-handed. So they're like, he's going to be hitting home runs into the water

every fucking night, so we're going to do it this way. So if he was right-handed, they would have flipped that thing around. That's how big of an impact he had on not only his franchise, but to this day, any franchise will still label him as probably the best player to ever play.

Professional sports are interesting because they have their own testing for it. The fitness industry doesn't really have one. If you want to compete as a power lifter in the USAPL slash IPF, then you can be drug tested. But it's kind of random drug testing. And then as far as I know, like in bodybuilding and other things, they won't really test. There probably are federations where you can get maybe like a – Depends on the federation. Do they do urine too?

Yeah. So like federations like the WNBF will do – on their pros, they'll do random drug tests. On amateurs, they'll drug test, I think, usually the top two. So they'll take them to the back and do a urinalysis and polygraph. But not all organizations are as stringent as them. Like I know the INBA, they're not as stringent. You know what I mean? But the WNBF is very stringent on the athletes that they do.

So, yeah, some do not all though so you can kind of pick and choose like where you want to go and in powerlifting powerlifting i think and strength sports in general powerlifting well not olympic lifting they're all full of shit pretty much powerlifting and strongman it's like no one really cares you know no like it doesn't seem like the athletes care it doesn't seem like the fans care the fans like this is sick this guy weighs 400 pounds and he's gonna like pick up 500 pound log over his head like i want to see that or at the arnold like what's the biggest draw at the arnold is when those guys go and they try to rip up 1100 pounds in that elephant bar deadlift thing yeah and the guys are bleeding and it's like fucking intense as hell people go people go crazy for that yeah when once the blood starts coming out the nose people don't say oh no this is not

a good thing no they start cheering fuck yeah like let's go like they should everybody hyped up they should stop the contest check that guy for steroids, make sure everyone's safe. And I'd rather see them lift 700 safely and naturally. Like, yeah, you're right. There's no one saying that. Let's put on some calmer music. Like that music's like too over the top. It's too loud. It's too intense.

Let's bring down the intensity. Is everybody okay with that? We're going to lift 600 pounds now and come out all calm and peaceful, right? Yeah, at the last arnold i can't remember who the competitor was but like he was literally dying right behind me because like i'm taking pictures and i look back and they have oxygen on them oh yeah they dude it was like scary like this was a this was athlete or a viewer no an athlete oh shit yeah he had just competed it was the one where they're they're pushing a thing in circles like everybody did really bad at it. And then he's like,

people were really scared. He had a cardiac event. Yeah, but then... Luckily he was okay. He was, but he was down there for a minute and then you look over and another competitor's going and everyone's like, yeah, let's go. I'm like, dude, this guy's going to die.

This is what I came here for. Right, yeah. So you're right yeah we want to see some some freak athletes and i guess even there's like kind of the fat burner side of things right because there's a lot of not just female but there's a lot of competitors in physique and stuff and they might say i'm natural but then maybe they're taking uh some thyroid medication and maybe they're taking some clenbuterol and even like ephedrine isn't legal anymore and stuff like that. So maybe they're doing some stuff on the side that's helping them get the physique. And then they're on their Instagram and they're saying, oh, I did this in six weeks.

And they're not, you know, what do you think about like just not sharing the information? Do you think that's better than lying about it? Yeah. You know, like if you're if you say i did this 100 natural i think that's worse than just not talking about what you did to get where you are you know like i once again have nothing wrong with anyone who uses i also have nothing against anyone or against anyone who just doesn't talk about it or decides not to because i totally understand like obviously you don't want people maybe to replicate exactly what you're doing and irresponsibly do something,

especially because majority of followings are going to be a lot younger. And especially on the social media world, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, everyone's going to be a lot younger and they're going to want those results that you got. I like that a lot. Like what you're saying,

because if someone was like, I got that big with insulin. Yeah, everyone's just going to go to the local drugstore get insulin start pumping insulin and then yeah go dive it just hypoglycemic yeah totally mess themselves up you know and i agree too there because like um someone say like uh well steve jobs has passed but like somebody like steve, he got the technology of the original iPhone, iPod. He got that from another company. And it's like, is he going to share the fact that he like, you know, stepped on that, you know, that that company's throat to kind of like, you know, pivot off of or whatever the situation was back then. Right. And a lot of people aren't going to share the kind of like that.

You know, maybe something maybe there's a chunk of the story that they're not so proud of that they don't want to share with everybody. And probably the best thing is to maybe just not say anything at all and just kind of proceed and talk about something else, you know? I mean, cause I mean, even Callum Von Moger, I don't know if you saw that. He made like a steroid video on YouTube, I think about last week. And he kind of opened up talking about how he's taking steroids but he didn't say exactly what he takes so I respected him for that because at least he you know opened up and told people like hey I'm not natural just so you know that but then also didn't give people exactly the dosage he took of what he took because you already know

like people 100% would try and replicate that and then mess themselves up not knowing the repercussions yeah Kenny was there like uh any one thing that kind of was the tipping point where you're like you know what screw this I'm gonna put out a video on this person or that person or whatever it was like where you felt like maybe you're the superhero we didn't ask for but we needed you know as far as YouTube you know know, fitness goes. I mean, I know my biggest video and what kind of got me in this genre was Brad Castleberry and the fake weights. I don't know what your take is on that too. I kind of want to hear your opinion on Brad Castleberry, but yeah, that was kind of like the most viewed. And obviously when you make a video on YouTube and it gets a lot of views, you know, that's what people want to watch and are looking

for. So I saw that, you know, maybe this was a bigger problem than what I had anticipated, just making that one video and then started to progress off that and realized how much more other fake things there are in the industry. And then just continuing to build off that. And obviously it had a big enough audience to build to where it's at now brad castleberry is a fucking savage i mean that kid is like built i mean he's he's insane i mean what is he like 240 250 no like a tank he's a he's five eight five nine i don't know if you've ever seen him in person i have yeah he's about maybe a little bit shorter than you i'd say a couple inches but um yeah he's just a tank and then like there's certain things that he does that just

aren't fake you know like when he jumps on a box right you know it's like there's i don't know how you would i don't know how you'd fake that without like special effects and i want to say i've seen him jump on a box that's like maybe 65 or something inches high you know some shit like that like some astronomical like height um he's shredded he's got like you know uh he's got the christmas tree going on like you know uh year round he's always in good shape he throws around some big big dumbbells um i think you know so i've uh been on a shared a platform with brad castleberry years ago at the los angeles fit expo uh it was in like a parking garage before the LA Fit Expo was the LA Fit Expo and they just Scott Mendelsohn was running the meet and Scott Mendelsohn's not very smart. So

so the meet was like run in some weird like just area of this LA Fit Expo. Sorry Scott messing with you buddy. And Brad Castleberry competed in this powerlifting meet. So we're in the warm-up room, and I want to say on a squat that he tried about – I can't remember, so I could be off with the weights that I'm talking about. But I want to say he tried like a 635 squat in the warm-up room, and he got crushed by it. Now, he was raw, and at the time, especially too, he wasn't nearly as heavy as he is now. So huge squat regardless, you know, and he was attempting it. But, like, he just didn't know what he was doing because he never competed in powerlifting before.

And I said, hey, I said, what, you know, I noticed him and just was like, wow, this kid's shredded. He looks super young. I'm like, I'm going to go talk to him and kind of see, you know, you shouldn't miss weights in the warm-up room you know and so i was like what's your opener he's like well i think it's like a little under 600 pounds i was like well you're plenty warm like you know go out there and you know see what you can do with your opening attempt and from what i recall he like missed a lift or two and just wasn't having the day that uh that he thought he would but i think he ended up making a squat he squatted around 600 pounds i think and then proceeded i think to bench 400 and pull 600 or something like that so he he's a strong guy and he actually you know has competed in powerlifting before

he's an he's an amazing shape the the weights that he posts though are always in question you know it's like i don't know if you're going to bench you know 675 i think he's kind of claimed a bench around 675 then um i don't really understand why you wouldn't do it uh well it's why why you wouldn't show that why you wouldn't do it in a competition um it's understandable maybe he doesn't want to compete in a competition but like there's no clean video of him like clearly doing it and maybe he just feels like who do i need to prove myself i mean he looks awesome and stuff like that so maybe from his standpoint maybe he's like well i don't need to prove myself to anybody i feel strong enough and then there's been a lot of allegations on whether he's using fake plates or not and that's

just that gets to be a little bit uh weird because you're like i don't understand why you would do that and not point it out you know or not you know not have not have fun with it or because you're like, I don't understand why you would do that and not point it out, you know, or not, you know, not have not have fun with it or something, you know. Have you ever talked to him in person like for a long duration? No, just just a couple of minutes at a time. Yeah, he's an interesting. I love Brad, though, to be honest, like as much shit as I give him. I want to, as I mentioned, like between two ferns.

I think that would that's like my goal video is I want to get Brad on like a one-on-one interview and do it like between two ferns just have it be awkward as hell oh yeah no just because I don't know what he does before expos I don't know if that's just how he is like his character all the time or if he like takes recreational stuff before the expo to get to his level he's at but whatever he's on I want it because he is like he's 100 times my level when i am at an expo like fired up 24 7 you can see him like downtown vegas just shirtless like flexing on people doing the brad casaberry type stuff so but he's uh if i had to i guess claim someone to be the most interesting in the fitness industry actually probably be brad casaberry yeah i haven't uh i haven't talked to him enough to to know that side of him we have fake weights here but like

we we've never no you don't yeah we have fake weights here we have like uh say anything we have four we have four 45 pound plates here that are fake and we use them occasionally for like a photo shoot or use them like for something specific but it's not ever we're not like oh like i did this today you know we don't post like a picture of uh you know the fake weights we use it like a rap video that we we did a long a long while ago and um i still benched like 515 and we just put a couple extra on there to make it look insane you know make it look more intense and so like we use it for that kind of stuff and i've seen like at gold's gym they have fake weights and they have somebody you know they're showing the execution of a squat and it's like it it looks better if they got a little bit of weight on there

so a lot of times the guys will have a plate or two plates or sometimes even more someone like michael hearn he's going to just use real plates because he's one of the strongest people I've ever met. And some of the other guys are into that too. Like my buddy John Cena, like he's going to just use real plates and just, you know, he'll sit there at the bottom of a squat with four plates on his back for photos for muscle and fitness and stuff. What do you think of someone like John Cena? Like John Cena has, I don't know his business, even though I have been friends with him for, you know for 25 years or so. I don't know what he does and doesn't do, but I've known him for a long time. He's one of those people that it's pretty clear that he's made it something different than the rest of us. What do you think of his physique and what he's been able to do? Does that look natural to you, or what are your thoughts on that? he's been able to do. Do you think that's, does that look natural to you or what are your thoughts on that?

It's hard to say with WWE because that's what he's in still. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just a big thing in that industry, especially because it's so much on your looks and like presentation that obviously you want to have the most crazy looking physique possible, you know, to draw on a bigger crowd and bigger audience.

Especially like years ago. My guess off like just a hunch would say probably not natural especially at that level but then again like i can't say for certain like i have no concrete evidence of anything you know there's a chance he could be natural but my guess knowing especially the higher end sports world most likely on something of some type is there a possibility to you know be 250 260 pounds and be really lean without anything what height are we talking talking about five foot or like uh six foot six four six foot anywhere between five eight and six foot or so i don't know i think so because i mean as you touched on it there is definitely like genetic outliers that are just far different than the vast majority of the population and that's without a doubt um for

instance like craig goliaths uh i don't know if you've met him yet or not he's really good friends with tony but in vegas he is a massive guy he's about if i had to guess maybe five nine somewhere in that range but he's around 340 to 360 um and he's he has a six pack totally diced dude's massive could step on the olympia stage if he like really wanted but uh i mean yeah you could bring up a picture he's great oh he's great at out angling people for instance he's not natural but he takes far less than you would think. I think a lot of average individuals would be like, oh, this guy's on a gram a trend, gram a test a week. So obviously from a natural standpoint.

He actually probably takes less than a lot of amateurs competing in bodybuilding shows because his genetics are just so insane that he just puts a little bit of anabolics into his system and he responds so phenomenally. There was a picture of him on his Instagram or something where he said, oh oh this was back when i was natural he was big then right he was massive yeah he was big yeah when he was natural and uh like i said there's this there's definitely the genetic outliers that a lot of people don't factor in and you'd be shocked to find out because i think there's this big misconception that everyone thinks oh oh, they're running tons of HGH. They're running a ton of trend, ton of test.

But realistically, they're probably running a lot less than, like I said, amateurs and your local like NPC bodybuilding shows. It seems like you have pretty good genetics. How long have you messed around? I think I have good bodybuilding genetics. I've got sports genetics. I've always been like a sports player. You're a big guy. You got a big frame.

Yeah. But what was the question uh like how long have you been like did you did you start uh using performance enhancing drugs like 10 years ago or five years ago or so initially i did like a winstraw only cycle i believe for sports though it was it wasn't anything bodybuilding related i hadn't even like been in bodybuilding at all it was more for sports performance and football um and then i was trying to make something, yeah, I was gonna, I was going semi-pro and then from there I wanted to try and transition into NFL. So I was doing a Winstraw only cycle and that was my first time anabolics. After that, obviously, um, I decided not to pursue football, went with, um, firefighting instead Decided to start that career for a couple years.

Didn't touch anything in that time period. There was really no point. At least you want to be the really good looking shirtless firefighter, I guess, or something for the calendar. You probably weighed a similar amount to what you weigh now? Oh no, I weighed way less.

I was probably 190, 200 at the time. Somewhere in that range. What's that? What are you now? About like 255. somewhere in that range what's that what do you know about like 255 somewhere in that range okay so i mean they definitely work for sure because i put on like a ton of weight as soon as i started like actually getting into bodybuilding getting my nutrition dialing the training and then of course implementing anabolics into that once you have like that trifecta going it's pretty crazy what you can do. But after that, then it was SARMs for probably on and off for like a year, just kind of experimenting.

This was a couple of years ago when Tony and them kind of first came onto the market and SARMs were just then kind of starting to be talked about, not as prevalent as they are now. And then after that, I decided to kind of like dabble in like testosterone, a couple other compounds and stuff like that. Could you be the same size without? That's what I want to test. I want to see how much I can maintain. Obviously, I know, you know, as you said, you're going to keep a good majority of what you put on, unless you went like a super far amount past your genetic potential. But I think it just kind of got me to my genetic potential faster. So I think it just kind of got me to my genetic potential faster. So I think maybe this is potentially, and I guess I'm going to find out where I would

have been naturally had I trained, say, really hard for 10 years or something along those lines, and it just got me there in, say, one to two years. But it's really hard to say, and that's where doing this experiment of being natural for some time will kind of find out where I'm at. and that's where doing this experiment of being natural for some time will kind of find out where i'm at so for myself i i was between about 205 and about 220 and anytime i tried to put on size i would i would kind of chub out and i was pro wrestling at the time so that wasn't cool to have too much chub on your body so i couldn't really fluff up all that much i couldn't really truly commit to like a like a bulkingking, you know, face. And this is all, this is when I was natural. And so then around the age of 25 is when I decided to

take stuff. But I think, um, with my, the way my body weight is now and what I take right now, the, my testosterone levels at the moment, I think the last test that I had, they were still a little high, but, uh, my testosterone levels at the moment are falling back into like a normal range. So I will probably be, you know, 10 or 15 pounds. I'll have 10 or 15 more pounds of muscle, which is a lot. And it makes everything a little easier in terms of your diet because now you have a more active metabolism because your muscle costs a certain amount of calories. So it just makes everything a little bit, um, a little bit easier for me. And it, it's something that I like to do because I like to look a certain, like to look a certain way. And I've been this way since I was

25. So if I was to, you know, revert back and to drop like 20 pounds, um, that, that would kind of suck. But what I'm trying to get across is they do a lot, but they don't do as nearly – they don't do as much as people think. They really – People think they're magic. They really, really don't. Now, it all gets very confusing because most of the time when people start to take steroids, they have already – in most cases. I mean sometimes there's just young guys that are taking stuff and they don't really, they don't know much about training or nutrition. But a lot of times it's someone that has been training for five years or eight years,

about 10 years. And they're thinking about, man, like I've tried a lot of stuff with my nutrition. I've tried a lot of stuff with this. I've tried a lot of stuff with that. And I feel like I'm at a good point. And I think I want to take something because I want to see, you know, how much further I can push it. And like I said, there's, there's still a lot of young guys that are taking stuff and they probably have no business messing with it because haven't really explored, you know, what, what they can do naturally. And I do think that's important. I do think it's important to push yourself to a certain level because maybe you don't ever need them, you know? And so them. And so it's a good idea for people to kind of push down that road. But really, in my opinion, the most that they're going to do for you

is you're going to gain somewhere between 15 to 20 pounds. You can gain more weight if you want to gain body fat, but you're going to gain about 15 to 20 pounds. You're going to see an increase in your strength, but when you come back off of them, your strength will decrease. Some of those gains will decrease. You may be a little bit slightly further ahead than where you were. But I weighed 240 pounds when I was like 15.

And I weigh about 240 pounds now. Body fat composition is different. I look a lot different than I did when I was a kid. But those people that are listening to this that are kind of on the fence and are thinking about taking it, think about taking this drug instead. Think about taking the drug of consistency and trying to put in good, consistent, hard work over a long period of time. If you were just to pretend that I gave you a steroid and that it costs a lot of money, and now you're more invested in this game than ever, and you just took it more seriously, the gains and the

things that will come from that i know i sound like i'm preaching for you know to like not to be anti-drug um but the gains that you'll get from that will be superior to what you would get from steroids that's actually good uh i never really looked at that way some people might actually use like anabolics or steroids as just a motivation piece to stay like you said like more consistent which would be kind of interesting but i mean my biggest advice to people is i honestly think kind of as you said you could probably get more results and progress out of dialing down your nutrition in your training than you would if it was still kind of haywire all over the place and you decide to throw anabolics into the mix. Um, especially because you're going to get one unwanted weight. You're probably going to bloat, get a ton of like water retention, just look entirely awful and watery.

Um, and it's not going to be quality. You're not going to have that longevity, especially because I know I get blood work done and I'm going to get some more, um, as I progress being more natural to see where my levels have fallen to. I know my cholesterol is always messed up. My platelets are always high. My testosterone was high, but that was because I was on cycle. So it just kind of throws everything off and definitely your health always needs to be taken into consideration for sure. Especially because I know a lot of young people don't necessarily look at the like research behind it or the side effects or what dosage is to run or a lot of them don't even know what a PCT is and they decide that they want to run the most extreme anabolic cycle of all time so it's really just having the knowledge behind it

and if you are on the fence you know definitely and if you want to take that next step you know just make sure you know what you're doing before you do it you know i want to play devil's advocate here real quick um and so for example you look at guys like jeff nippard who a lot of people don't think he is but he puts out great content and i personally do think he's not on anything or never has been puts out great content knowledgeable helps people figure out how to handle their nutrition how to handle handle their training. Even Brian DaCosta, who I think he's also natural too. Man, he gets shredded. He gets shredded, but he's not shredded all the time. So that's what I was curious if he recycled or not. Yeah. Like some people do, but like at a certain point, even myself, it took me a long time to get to a point where I could be fairly lean and maintain it. You know what I mean? Because I had to build enough muscle to be able to get lean enough to do that. But if I was, I look at myself like if I was back in 15,

16, because I started training when I was 13, right? And I had the assumption that all these guys, let's say I was 13 now, or all these guys, they're taking shit, right? I don't think I would have given myself the time to actually just train in naivety, you know, just being perfectly naive and train. If I was like, Oh, he's definitely on stuff and Oh, he, he can't, you know, have delts like that and be that lean. Um, and I know that your content is meant to help people have a healthy dose of hopeful, hopefully a healthy dose of skepticism when they look at this content. But I think that when it comes to some individuals that you've made videos on, who definitely are, and they could be an outlier, they probably are. Well,

they definitely are outliers. They're putting forward content to help individuals put in consistency, like Mark was saying, put in the work before you try this, because you'd probably be very surprised where you get. You might not look like Brian DaCosta, but you look pretty fucking amazing. But if I were to watch your stuff as a young kid, instead of giving myself the time to train, I would just think all these dudes are on shit. And I'd want to hop on some SARMs or something too because, well, there's no fucking way that he could do that without taking drugs. And he's probably lying about taking drugs. So why don't I just start now?

You know what I mean? What do you think about that? I mean, it definitely scares me to see some of the DMs I get of teens. Team Andrew, bro. He has some horror stories of young dudes on SARMs. I believe it. I've heard people taking far more than I've ever taken, and they're like 17, 18, and it blows my mind. I could only imagine some of the stories you've gotten to, but it's actually horrifying to hear what people will do without

knowing the repercussions. And I don't even know how they get it to be honest. I don't know if they go and swipe their mom's credit card or how do you make money? I'm like, first off, how do you like, I understand how I get it because I have like products shipped to me, but that stuff's expensive. So if you're a high schooler, I don't know how you're affording that. But yes, it's definitely a bumpy road because I definitely don't want to encourage people. And I think I said on the podcast last time with you, Andrew, that I don't ever encourage anyone even consider taking anything until they're at least 25. taking anything until they're at least 25. I got into it earlier than that. And I wish I'd waited till I was 25 and dialed in my nutrition and my training more before I'd ever dabbled in anything. Just because that is the staple behind it. If you don't have your nutrition and your training down,

you're not going to get anything out of it. And then also, like I said, your health is what's at stake. So you could entirely mess yourself up. You could suppress yourself for who knows how long um and it's just not really a road you want to go down but unfortunately you know social media and instagram has become such a problem because everyone looks phenomenal on instagram year-round now where it's become really a body issue problem and everyone wants to be you know sub five percent body fat year-round because i think that's what's actually going on you know as i said with michael hearn i actually believed he was that shredded year-round little did i know he goes through like phases of being big and shredded i think he kind of hates

when he's bulking to be honest like he he's really like uh as long as he played the game for i think he gets pretty self-conscious about it he loves the strength side of it he loves that he gets stronger but i he covers up a lot and he i think he kind of hates it even though he knows it's going to pay off in the long run yeah right and then in regards to like the age thing like i was saying 25 also and then after sarmageddon i was kind of leaning more closer to like 30 because like i would get so many young people or that would dm me and stuff and i'm just like like dude like it's going to suppress your testosterone there's no question about it like and you don't even know what your level is going to peak at like wherever that level is you're gonna you're gonna chop it down already and you might not ever get

to that natural peak ever again like so you're running a really really big risk like all for like a dope instagram photo like i'll say shit like that to like to for them to realize like oh fuck this that's kind of is why i'm doing it every once in a while there'll be like a power lifter that'll want to do something i'm just like hey like this isn't your last power lifting meet like you're gonna have way more you're just gonna get way better but like i am now leaning more towards saying like hey you should wait till you're closer to 30 than 25 i know after 25 you're kind of done developing and whatnot but i think just based out of like maturity and stuff like you just i don't either because by then you might not even want to do it at all you know you might be smarter

than you are like at you know 18 especially because it's like you said with the magic pill like every everyone thinks it's you pop it and then a couple days later you're michael hearn you know and it's and then i get the DMs subsequently after them telling me what they're on and I'm horrified. Then they're like, hey, I'm not seeing any results taking this. So not only are they messing up their hormones and everything, they never had their nutrition or anything or training and they think they can take five off days while taking a SARM or testosterone or whatever they may be taking

and expect these like crazy magic like results. And it just absolutely blows my mind that they think that's how it works. Should there even be like an age though? Like, I feel like it should be a training age. Like I know guys that are in their thirties that just started training and they're two, three years in and they've put on a substantial amount of muscle you know what i mean if they trained for four more years at the age of 37 they'd probably be bigger than they've ever been so i don't even think it should be an age unless like it's something you really have always wanted to do you should train for fucking seven ten years before you even consider shit like that yeah that's totally fair to say well and here's and here's let's just back everything up for a second and think about why are you training?

You're training for a bunch of reasons, but some people will try to shift it over to like, oh, I trained for football. And it's like you're not really training for football. You're training because you want to feel more substantial. You want to feel better. You want to attract somebody. Like you don't maybe feel attractive. Like there's a bunch of little reasons in there that are really the main play, really the main reason why you did it in the first place.

Maybe you were fat. Maybe you were skinny. Maybe you just saw some people that had muscle when you were a kid and you're like, whatever that is, I want to find out more about it and I want to try to figure that out. And so if we're thinking about that and SEMA is 100% correct, it's like just go and work out and train because can you have abs? Can you be strong without taking steroids?

You certainly can. You certainly can. Can you start to go towards that and make some really good progress and go from a 315 deadlift to a 405 deadlift? Absolutely. Like that's the kind of stuff that's going to happen. And so if we're trying to think about like why you're doing all this in the first place and you're just trying to feel good, you want your arms to be a little bit bigger, you're tired of being picked on, you know, maybe some of these things are all factors. Then you can start to eliminate a lot of those things and you can start to get a lot of the things that you want without ever even really taking a steroid. Now, the thing that starts to happen is over a period of time, you want more and you start

to get more into it. And you're like, I really love this. This is something that I, that I truly enjoy doing. This is something I really love to do. And so that would be the time where you're like, you know what? Like, it does seem like it makes sense for me to do that because I like this so much. I like having muscle. I like being strong. I'm going to go for that. And I'm going to see, I'm going to see what this, this, this looks like.

And like you said, like make sure that you are, you know, paying attention, make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. The, the thing that is interesting about steroids is I've seen a lot of people take them and not get really hardly any progress from them.

It's, it's, it's amazing. So I, again, I think people are just going to take them and like, hey, like all this cool shit happened. I've seen a lot of people not make any changes in their physique. I've seen people like barely make any changes in their strength. I've seen it have the opposite effect too. I've seen people make these crazy, crazy changes. But the main thing that a steroid is going to do for somebody is help them with weight gain. And like you said, you can get kind of bloated from them too, but

it's going to help people gain weight. You can gain weight without taking steroids. It's going to be harder to gain just muscle though. That's going to be, you know, kind of the, the play there is that's going to be the hard part is just to gain muscle. And that's why at 25, I made a decision to jump ship and to go to the dark side, because I was like, I want to be able to put more muscle on easier. And this is like, this is a pain in the ass to, to try to figure out this struggle. So I understand, um, the struggle that the natural people go through. Cause they're like, man, I, every time I try to put on muscle, I put on a little too much fat. And every time I, man, I, every time I try to put on muscle, I put on a little too much fat. And every time I try to lean out and every time I try to come down,

I end up stripping off a little too much muscle. Right. Yes. And have you come off? Sorry. No, you're good. Go ahead.

Um, have you come off since you started when you're 25? For what bro? No. Yeah. Well, I have, but just,

yeah, just once just to have a Quinninn pop out quinn that's another thing though too is like you don't know if your reproductive shit's going to come back so if you're a young guy and you want to have children that's a huge factor and then you can't have kids because you wanted bigger shoulders or bigger biceps did it mentally affect you because that's what i've been debating recently is like oh yeah i think a big thing and i don't know maybe you could speak on this too andrew with like your sarm stuff but um like going natural i think it just it's definitely an addiction i think just like any other drug where you might not necessarily drop

a lot of weight or lose a lot of strength but mentally it just messes with you thinking that you're like natural again you think you're losing a ton of weight even though like i said you may not be or yeah um and i don't know if you've experienced that but i'm kind of starting to and it's only been maybe like a week oh no you can get really severely depressed because when you take testosterone your testosterone levels go up which make can make you feel like the incredible hulk make you feel great uh your estrogen levels will also go up and then after a period of time when you stop taking testosterone that'll go down. The estrogen is probably,

you know, maybe not responding as quickly. And so you're going to have some wishy-washy feelings and certain songs will come on and you'll start crying in your car. Yeah. And I, when, when it started happening to me, I didn't even want to like let anybody know because I really believe that

like if I say, oh man, I came off the storms and I got super depressed. Everybody that stops a day after is like um if I say oh man I came off the SARMS I got super depressed everybody that stops a day after is gonna be like oh man I'm so sad and it actually did happen some guy dm me he's like dude you're totally right it's day two and I just like I everything sucks I'm like that's the placebo dude like it's not actually happening it was like three weeks after I came off everything like the best way I can say it was like the sun wasn't as shiny anymore like I just wasn't amped up to get back into the gym and I'm like man what's

going on here and like strength wise like yeah everything kind of went down a little bit but it was like really really it affected me mentally like like I was just not like pumped to do anything like just across the board like in and out of the gym and uh i had told tony like i'm like hey like i need to do i need to deal with this though like i need to kind of go through this shitty time period because if if i can get through this then maybe at some point i will like jump on sarms again because then i'll know it's coming and i know i can get through it and i mean it was like a solid week or two where like i just like didn't feel too good. And then after that, it was I was totally fine. But you're absolutely right.

It just felt like something was totally missing. Right. I just couldn't put my finger on it. And obviously, because this is the first time I had taken anything. And once I realized, like, oh, I bet you it's it's because I'm not on anything anymore. That that's got to be it. Like, and so I just believed that to happen. And I just got over it right away. But it absolutely is something that not many people talk about it you know like tony

didn't tell me about it anything either too and he told me everything else but he was like he's definitely overlooked and why a lot of people mess themselves up because they have a hard time separating from it and then they're like instead of going through that period yeah of being natural they're like you know what i just going to run it year round. And then that's where you definitely run into a lot of health complications. Yeah. So. But that should be something to people think about. Right. Mark is like, when you started, I mean, you said that you're going to be on something a little bit for the rest of your life. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think that's a big thing people need to think about here. Like, I don't I don't hear that said much. The only person I've ever had actually say that is you.

Yeah. No one else has said that. So when a guy that's 20 is like, Oh, I'm going to run something. He doesn't realize that probably, okay, he'll get some gains,

but it's going to be an addiction. Like it could turn into addiction at that point. You just want to be that big forever. It's something you're never going to have to, you're never going to really want to ever let go of. Well, and also to like, um,

do you really want to come off of it for a long enough period of time for your natural stuff to come back which who knows how long that could take or maybe you impaired your some of your abilities forever yeah so that's why i just stay on them because i'm like and if you you know again if you reference bigger stronger faster there's a period in the movie where you know we talk about me coming off to have uh my daughter quinn and stuff like that and um my brother tells louis simmons he's like yeah mark's gonna get off steroids and he's like he'll take him again like he just says it as so matter of fact and because he knew you know and i i knew too i knew i wasn't gonna uh like kiss him goodbye and and like right now like what i'm trying to say too, is that I'm trying to just keep my levels like in a natural,

I'm not trying to be like natty or anything. I'm just trying to keep my levels in more of a natural realm because I don't really care to go for those. Like I've lifted my biggest weights. I've done that before. I've done that. And I, I need to be okay with it.

I need to say like the thousand pound squats are gone. The 800 pound benches are gone. And gone, and so might a 500-pound bench. Like some of these things might be gone, but that's okay. You change your goals. You change your mindset. You change towards other things. And as you were pointing out, being on all the time could be very unhealthy. So I'm working on getting my blood to be better.

My blood work gets better pretty much every time I get it tested. And I'm working on, you know, trying to have it be as healthy as I can get it, you know, at the moment. So it is definitely something to think about is if you're going to go on them and you really do enjoy a lot of this, it's kind of like we talk about with like just don't buy certain foods. Just don't buy them. Don't get it. You know, how do you avoid getting hooked on cigarettes? Don't ever fucking touch them. Just don't buy them don't don't get it you know um how do you avoid getting hooked on cigarettes don't ever fucking touch them just don't ever smoke them you know you're trying if you really do love this game and you really love the feel of going in the gym and and getting

stronger you might want to be careful what you add to the mix because you may not be able to ever come off it again right and with your blood work what has been the main problem or thing that you're working on? The main thing has been, you know, the kind of the same thing you were mentioning, you know, platelets and things like that. And just so you know, your your blood can thicken, which obviously is not great. And you can donate blood to counteract that. But which I actually like to donate blood because it can help people. But at the same time, you know, it's a pain in the ass. So you got to do it, you know, a couple of times a year or whatever. And then, yeah, a few other things were off.

But, you know, I have friends that will view it. And there are people I hold in high regard to be able to make sense of the blood work. And they'll say, oh, you know, this is high because you're, you know, a bigger guy. And this is high because you lift, you know know like creatine levels and certain things like that might be a little bit high um but at the same time it's like i want my shit to be as as healthy as possible and so that's uh all the stuff cholesterol things like that or it's it's like high but then at the same time we've had people on the show talk about you know maybe cholesterol is not the only marker of you know heart disease and some of these other things.

So I'm trying to learn a lot of it, too, you know, but at the same time, I don't want to have an excuse. I don't want to be like, well, you know, they're high because I'm on stuff. But it's like, well, I'm on stuff forever, pretty much. So they can't be elevated all the time. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, my recommendation to people, especially if you debate doing anything,

definitely get blood work done beforehand so you know where your natural levels are at before you ever dabble in anything. Yeah. Mark was just mentioning about, like, you know, they'll help you gain weight and whatnot. How much weight did you gain in the seven days that you were down here blasting

basically every steroid under the sun? It was actually mostly SARMs and then a ton of GH and insulin um which definitely don't recommend that was like my video when I made the recap after I was like please don't do this yeah I felt awful it was pretty funny so I didn't mean to cut you off but like we had uh Trevor Curitzen and Tony Huge on the podcast and then uh Trevor was the Canadian Trevor. I don't think you met him. I don't think he was in the States when you were here. Uh,

you know, he was like, yeah, I don't know why insulin has such a bad rep. And Mark's like, well, like, can it put you in a coma?

And he's like, yeah, it can. He's like, well, people don't like comas. It was like, well,

yeah, dude. He's like, cause he was just trying to say that you can do it safely and whatnot. But we're like, I wouldn't let him off the hook on that. And's like, because he was just trying to say that you can do it safely and whatnot. But we're like. I wouldn't let him off the hook on that one. I'm like, you don't get to say that on our show. We're going to go to an intermission real quick.

It was so good. I had to keep kind of pushing him on that. I'm like, well, yeah, it has a bad reputation because you can die from it. And then he's like, well, you can die from anything. I'm like, I understand. True yeah that guy's so smart though he was yeah he was really intelligent but that was dumb yeah especially because that's something you can take too much and instantly yeah you can just die pretty quick with that one so that's definitely the most dangerous thing i would say in the bodybuilding world yeah that's why I recommended people don't even dabble in it.

And GH along with that, unless it's like doctor prescribed, obviously, and you're letting your doctor work on that for you. Because from my experience, I put on, just to tell everyone, 20 pounds in the seven days. But so much of it was water. And even sleeping, I could feel my heart struggling because of how much fluid retention there was. And even sleeping, I could feel my heart struggling because of how much fluid retention there was. And then I had like pedal edema where like my ankles and my feet swelled up. Probably like, I don't even know how big, but it was painful to like even put on socks and shoes. So there were so many side effects along with it that I was like, the results in weight gain just aren't worth it. You know what's crazy about that?

There's people that walk around feeling like that all the time. Right. Just because they eat too much. They have a hard time gaining control over their diet and you know i just i see it all the time i see people like stuffing down bagels and stuff and i'm like man i you know you can't go up to someone without being like rude but you wish you could share information with them and say you don't need to feel that i wish i could help you but maybe you don't want to be helped at the moment so you know it's like ken barry was kind of walk into like a restaurant and just be like, you shouldn't do that.

Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. You just come sliding in out of nowhere. Is anyone sitting here? Cool. I am. What's the upper limit you think in terms of in terms of strength and what's the upper limit in terms of how lean someone can get without performance enhancing drugs? Is there a known limit? That's actually a really good question. So, I mean, I've even stated on my channel numerous times, I can never judge if someone's on steroids based off of strength because I've seen some incredibly freaky strong guys that I know are 100% natural. And that's why I'm like, you know what, I don't know necessarily obviously it stimulates your nervous system and everything where you're able to push more weight for sure but I've seen some

incredibly strong guys I don't know an exact number per se I mean obviously it's genetic your training regimen form technique like everything factors in for sure and then also getting lean I think anyone can get just as lean as someone running all the compounds in the world because at the end of the day it's just being in a caloric deficit. So if your goal is just to be lean, you can definitely do that naturally and get just as lean as someone who's taking a bunch of stuff. I hope people heard that. You know what I mean? That's important for people to know. We don't know.

We don't know how strong you can be. We don't know how lean you can be. We don't know how strong you can be. We don't know how lean you can be. And in fact, I think when I look at a lot of the natural bodybuilders, some of the guys that I think are natural and compete in natural bodybuilding, sometimes I think they're leaner. And sometimes I think they look better than the professional bodybuilders. Someone like Alberto Nunez comes to mind. I mean, that guy gets – he gets shredded and there's no extra water on him or anything.

I mean, he just gets so lean. He's got like a lean forehead and lean muscles in his face and shit. It's pretty wild. And he gets other people that lean too. Yeah. Like he's gotten me that lean in the past. So like when people say- So you did your coaching? Yeah.

Back in 2014, 2015, I was getting ready for wnbf worlds and alberto got me alberto helped me with my prep but he got me like that lean i was down to 228 i was probably around five five six percent but that's not a zone that i stayed in for more than that was also months like a really long uh diet the prep was 40 weeks oh so here so here's a big difference for people to to understand too. Um, you know, and I've been, I've mentioned, I've been using for, for many years, my prep for my bodybuilding show was like eight weeks. He did, he did 40 weeks. So it's like, by the way, this was at two 38. So this was halfway through my prep that I did this show, by the way. So I wasn't even as

close to as lean as I was when I did WNBF worlds. But like, yeah, you were saying like the length of prep. Yeah. The length of prep. I mean, even like a pro, like a lot of the pro bodybuilders, you know, they go up and down and they shift so much. If you're going to be a natural athlete, you can't get as far away from your contest shape. You have to be a little bit more cautious right and you're going to take it's going to take you a lot longer to get in shape you can't really do an eight or or six week prep unless you were staying really lean from previous shows even if a guy were to do like a 20 week prep you look awesome there dude yeah really do you really do insane yeah but that's the thing i lost about 10 more pounds before worlds so i cut off or alberto and i cut 10 pounds off of here but the

thing is is like even like if a natural guy were to do a 20-week prep he still needs to be a little bit lean starting in that prep right you know what i mean like you can't you don't see guys getting away with 10 to 12 week preps unless they're like extremely lean already because for natural dudes it takes a longer amount of time to lose body fat it took me 40 weeks to lose 30 pounds you know yeah nobody really wants to say you know especially when people are using they don't want to say that steroids are a shortcut but they certainly are they just are they're a shortcut but once you take the shortcut you already took the shortcut and you're already like if you don't get you don't get further progress from it unless you continue to take like more stuff or cycle through other things or start to implement crazier crazier shit over a

period of time it's like like i said earlier it's going to give you maybe that about 20 pound burst i mean if you were to take him and see me you would just be about you'd be standing here just as you are now and you'd weigh 20 pounds more. That's kind of crazy. That's a lot of weight. I probably wouldn't even put on body, like I probably wouldn't gain that much body fat either. Well, no, because you already have the discipline. Yeah.

Some guys put on body fat and some guys, you know, almost start to look almost out of shape because they don't have the discipline and they think the steroids are going to cover up their ice cream habit. It certainly, it certainly doesn't work that way. I wish it did. Yeah. No, definitely. And then like you said, just the more muscle you build,

the more you're able to get away with calorie-wise and everything to fuel your body. So, oh man, this is a topic where I feel like you could just go on. Oh my God, you could talk about it for years. There's so many topics. Have you ever seen, this is from a long time ago, but I think they still have stuff like this they used to have the power team it's like a religious team that would go around and they would you know do uh

feats of strength in churches and stuff like that andrew can probably punch it up off of youtube this is real uh right that's the question right that's the question is it real and um like fake weight type stuff so these talking so these guys would i think i think they probably did use some fake weights these guys would go around the country they would inspire kids and and um they had a great they had a great oh god they had a great cause going yeah so like look is this shit fake like this uh you know karate type acts where you're chopping through bricks and blocks and you, you know, does it just look impressive? You know, are you deceiving the audience? You know, this falls into the end.

Now they're breaking ice with their head and so on. Is this stuff that's deceiving the audience? Is it really actually powerful? They're making such a mess. And if it's a... Ooh, look at that car. Wow, he just hit the people's elbow. And they're blowing up a hot water balloon. Look at the setup, though, is my favorite part.

Look at it. He's like, ha! Where's he going? Whoa, I didn't see that. Looks like a wrecked construction site. And now they're blowing up a hot water bottle. I'm more confused. They just go to random churches and do this?

So this is like strength for Jesus, right? Yeah, reps for Jesus. Is this the message behind this? They used to actually like, I don't know if they'll show these guys actually lift. Okay. They're ripping apart phone books and stuff. And like a lot of this stuff, when you saw it. That guy didn't look in shape at all though.

Right. Oh yeah. No, a lot of them are like not, yeah, they're not like jacked and stuff like that. And I don't know. It just, it kind of, just kind of, it kind of brings up the topic of deceit, you know? Do people actually receive phone books anymore, by the way? I don't think so. No, I haven't in a long time.

I think it's an outdated thing. We do in South Sac, but we just throw them away. So this guy's bending steel, right? It's like, how do we know what steel he's got there? And these guys would lift on stage and do certain things. And by the way, all these guys that are going to this religious thing, they would also preach

that they're natural. And it's obvious that a few guys on the stage probably aren't natural. Look at him breaking those baseball bats would probably already have a pre like little nick in them. You know what I mean? This is amazing, Mark. Thank you thank you yeah but this is the thing like okay how do i get on the power team it would when's this video from these guys probably aren't

doing any harm i mean you know they're probably going to these places and they probably are inspiring some young kids and stuff like that maybe they do get kids to uh get into martial arts maybe they do get kids inspired to... I think they're inspiring me to have their job. Go pick up some weight. Is this any different than the Harlem Globetrotters? When I was a kid, I thought that was real. Wait, it's not.

See? Real talk. Wait, what's fake about the Harlem Globetrotters? I'm legit serious right now. The Globetrotters are real, but they don't have a real defense on them, I guess, right? That's kind of the Globetrotters are real, but they don't have a real defense on them, I guess, right? That's kind of the main thing. Yeah, well, so they accidentally lost one game

because they were winning by one point, and then I forgot what the team name is. Washington Generals. Yeah, one of the guys, he just threw the ball from the entire court, and it went in, and they're like, oh, shit, we weren't supposed to. They're not supposed to win. Yeah.

Yeah, so sorry, Encima. Obviously, these guys, that fire is real. When the globe charters are dribbling, that shit's real. They do a lot of amazing things with the basketball. I thought wrestling was real for the longest time when I was a kid. That is real. That looked like John Anderson. But I think, Mark, that's a really good question because as a kid, when I started training, I thought that guys like The Rock and a lot of even bodybuilders, I thought they were natty.

A lot of bodybuilders that I now understand weren't. And as a kid, I'm happy that I was naive. And as a kid that like I'm happy that I was naive because again if I wasn't like so like I don't know if I've said this on this podcast I've never taken shit if you believe it or not. But when I did start training if I thought that everyone was taking shit right that actually even worse some were but some were I might have being naive and wanting to do things faster because as a kid you don't have fucking patience. Right. But if you're like oh I can do that I can do it. Yeah. And you just you just do shit. naive and wanting to do things faster because as a kid you don't have fucking patience right but if you're like oh i can do that i can do it yeah and you just you just do shit yeah who knows where you'll get yeah we're watching rocky right like we all we didn't know yeah the russians down some eggs exactly but but that brings up a good point like is it like those some of those guys you said

are actually weren't natural but like where's the line there because yeah that's not it's kind of not okay you you shouldn't be saying right you are if you aren't yeah but i think the the line gets drawn when somebody is taking something and then they're saying damn this protein got me there that's see that's the shit that that's the shit that's fucking up everything in the fitness industry that you're that i think you're on i think the big ridicule that mike got was just his duck egg oh yeah remember that yeah what was it hold i don't really even know you explain that it was let me see if i remember all of it correctly i think it was like 700 for like this certain select duck eggs where michael hearn made kind of a claim like that where that's where all of his gains came from was these

duck eggs so and that was i think where the huge like natty or not thing really blew up because everyone's like, oh, he's trying to push his duck eggs. I remember that. That's been a meme for a long time. Right. Mike O'Tren. And then the night. Yeah, his name just flows with that. But yeah, that's definitely something that's really prevalent for sure. And that's a big red flag is when I see people pushing like a lot of stuff. That's a big red flag that normally more times than not. Or if I see natural in the bio, I don't know if you put natural in your bio or not.

I don't like I still am. I took I even changed my Instagram name from the Natty Professor to Nseema Iyang. And the main reason is because it's like a this is another like thing that goes through the industry if you have natty in your name you're not natty people say that for some reason right so if you're obviously saying you're natural oh that's obviously a red flag you're not or if you have natural in your bio but the problem is this is what i think's the big problem with that reverse psychology yeah but like like this is the thing like a guy like brian da costa you made a video about recently right he wants to put forward that he's a lifetime natural because he's an advocate

for people not taking drugs and if you are someone like him who has great genetics who's able to get who's gotten really big you don't want people to think you're taking drugs because you're not you want people to train you want people to get their nutrition on point i don't think he's out here shilling products and saying hey this got me big i don't think so either he's out here just trying to put out information saying he's not saying he's not even saying if you train like this you'll get as big as me but all he's saying is that if you train well and you have your nutrition on point you might not get as big as me but you'll probably get pretty fucking big and you'll probably become a pretty you'll have a pretty impressive physique so i do think it's important for people to do that but the problem is on the other side when everyone's like ah he says he's natural that means he's not natural so what the

fuck are they supposed to say like are you supposed to not say it at all are you supposed to just be like ah shit i'm natural but if i say i'm natural then i'm not natural shit i think that's the better way now yeah it's just like not even talking about it but i think you but that's the thing i think if you are and you're trying to encourage people to just be patient you need to let them know no matter who doubts you gotta let them know let's use uh like brian da costa or like a simian panda as like an example right let's say that they are uh five percent just in general five percent uh more out of shape than they would be right now if they if they were actually natural right so here's where some of

the deceit can come in and here's where some of it can seep in and it can be a little bit different than than than what you're pointing out so like maybe they don't say like this protein, you know, makes me better. Right. But maybe they're promoting that they're natural, but still getting them, getting themselves to a level that they otherwise wouldn't be able to achieve through taking steroids. And what I kind of mean by that is if you think like, um, the, some of these people, like the better that they look and the crazier shit that they can perform and do, then maybe that elevates their social media status. And then maybe they can use that social media status to make more money and to get ahead a little bit further. And so maybe there's some deceit like in just some of that, even if they're not like, hey, this is the way I got here.

This is the way I was able to do or obtain this. You take someone like Arnold, who I don't think really Arnold was ever really saying that he was natural, right? He opened up about what he took. Yeah, I think he talked about it quite a bit. But somebody like Arnold, it's a crazy, wild thing to even think of. But Arnold Schwarzenegger may not have ever been the Terminator. He may not have ever been the governor of California.

He may not have ever been Arnold Schwarzenegger without taking steroids. So it's a really – when you start to think about drugs, drugs in general, they take you to a place you otherwise wouldn't be able to get to, whether it's, uh, just you climbing the social media ladder. I like, I don't know Brian's business. Like he's always, he's been in really good shape for a long time. And, um, you know, I, I know him a tiny bit. So some of these people, when they say they're clean is I don't have any other reason to believe you know I haven't like investigated so I don't really I don't really know you know I'm not really sure but I think that's maybe where some people are like I think this guy is full of shit or I think that's things that's where people get

triggered kind of right I think it's also a trust thing too because I know for me personally I was under the like um basically mindset that a lot of my favorite athletes were natural all the way until probably i was around early 20s and then i remember ct fletcher day after day would claim natural saying come or come do a drug test on me if you don't believe me come do this come do this and i was like oh yeah like he must be natural if he's so confident and then on the podcast i think it was even like joe rogan's or someone's he opened up about what he took so it's like the entire time he was lying saying that he was natural and then it kind of just like really breaks you down to where you lose trust in a lot of your favorite like fitness icons because if they're willing

to go that extent to bluffing hey any fan come drug test me anytime i'll test natural and then you find out this whole time they were unnatural you're like wow okay people can bluff like really well to try and sell the fact that they're natural and i understand it from ct's perspective because obviously as mark touched on you want to be you know the top of the industry basically and it kind of sets you apart ct's pushing these crazy numbers and doing these crazy workouts and doing it all naturally it sets him apart from say those guys that are probably maybe pushing less than him yeah and doing it unnaturally yeah there's also a really weird thing about like when you start to do them like if you like if you wanted to do them like if you came in and you were like asking some questions i might kind of laugh because i'd be like well you don't do them like what you know why even asking you'd be like no seriously bro

like i want to get i want to get some shit i might like shrug it off but then for you to like all of a sudden like share information with other people that you're now doing it so some of these people that were already following their story and we're already looking at their into what they're doing they all of a sudden a sudden get a little burst ahead or they start making some little small changes. It's not like they're going to be like, hey, I started doing this thing because I made my change when I was at Westside Barbell.

And when I was there, I was asking people in the gym and then they all just thought I was a cop. It's like, you said you're clean. You said you don't do that stuff. like we just you know they never asked me again about it and like anytime i tried to bring it up they were like oh yeah they would just not talk to me about it you know they're like are you you know trying to incriminate me or something you know yeah yeah it gets to be weird i guess once someone goes from natty to not natty then it's like uh how do you have a i haven't even seen anyone really do that on social media.

Maybe someone has, where they're just like, hey, I'm making a switch. I was natural for a long time. I gave it a good run. I gave it a good shot. Now I'm going the other direction. Yeah. I think Brandon Harding's the only one I can think of who's a YouTuber that's done that. But he got really positive feedback from it because I think a lot of people just admired

his honesty about being open about it and you know not trying to lie and continue to say that he's natural even though say he made the transition into being unnatural who's the biggest and strongest most natural person that you think is actually natural come across anybody because there's like some bodybuilder dudes that are like pretty fucking jack that compete naturally that have had blood tests i've seen saw in one of your videos there was a guy right communicating with you and he was saying like uh there's like a ten thousand dollar challenge or something to anyone that can you know prove that this guy's not natural or something like that uh was that a keon peterson i think so that who competes in classic physique look yeah i don't know who that

is oh you don't know Keon? He's a bodybuilder? Yeah, Classic Physique. I think he placed fifth or fourth at the Olympia this year. Oh, it was maybe someone that Flex Wheeler was training for free or something like that. Okay. Hmm. Trying to think. It might have been him, but I think he was pretty.

I think who would be the strongest that I would think 100% is natural. See, for the longest time, I actually thought like half Thor was natural until he opened up recently and said that he wasn't. Because I'm not too well dabbled in like the strongman world or anything. And like I said, I've never judged someone's strength based off of like thinking that are strictly on steroids because I've seen personal people. Has anyone become a pro bodybuilder, do you think, naturally? Like they've said that about, I guess, like Ronnie Coleman and Kai Greene and a couple things. Do you think any of that's?

I think there's definitely some. I think it was definitely more common, say, a few years ago. Dude. His insertions and his structure is just absolutely crazy. Is this Keenan? Yeah, Keon Peterson. Keon Peterson. He's a young kid, too.

I think he's like 21. Jesus Christ, he looks awesome. I think he's like 21. Jesus Christ, he looks awesome. I think he's like 21 would be my guess. You know though, I know two guys. One you made a video about. His name's Kendall. He's the one that has over a million views. He lives in Sacramento.

Yeah, I met him when I was here with Tony. And a second one, Joshua Gilliam. In a few years, or even right now, if you put them next to each other next to this dude uh-huh they'd give him a run for his money in terms of in terms of size Kendall's not as not as big as this guy right but that's the thing it's like it's it's tough but like yeah I actually literally know people like that right you know so what you're saying is it's not too far-fetched that you could look like this naturally that certain individuals see that that's the

thing yeah like correct when when we when we look at this whole thing it's like will most people ever even achieve this physique in their lifetime without taking a buttload of drugs no most people won't but right well i'll just say i wouldn't look like this guy no matter what I took or who trained me. Yeah. Like, it wouldn't matter who was helping me and what I took. I wouldn't look like that. But see, the interesting part is, so he was natural up until last year. And then this year for the Olympia, he decided to hop on stuff, supposedly.

Okay. To try and take his physique to the next level to potentially win Olympia. Yeah. But I don't know if you know Gregreg doucette yeah but he did a review talking about how keon his stage weight basically didn't change i think he was like one high 180s or something on stage didn't change from the time he was natural to unnatural which greg saw as a big red flag because it's like obviously if you touch anabolics you should most likely especially if you're training and nutrition is probably dialed by keons you should probably put on like 10 to 15 pounds did he look into the body frame though like was he um

about the same conditioning i would say yeah so and it definitely did raise a pretty good question because i was questioning it because i did believe Keon was natural, just insanely good proportions, genetics. And then, I mean, he looked phenomenal on stage at Olympia as well. And PJ, who's the guy seen right there in the middle, who's doing the coaching for Keon, said that he had him on just really low-dose everything. That way he can make weight for his division. Because they obviously didn't want him to get too big

to where he wouldn't be able to compete. And then is it possible they obviously didn't want to get too big to where he wouldn't be able to compete? And then is it possible that like his muscles are so developed that even just that little bit of whatever he took, like didn't really do much because he had already achieved so much, like everything was so dense. Well, PJ said, too, that he had him on less than he's had some of his female competitors on, too, because his body just responds so well to it that, like I said, they had to make weight for the classic physique division for his height that they didn't want him to just blow up. But I guess apparently next year he's going to do 212. So he's going to plan to put on a lot of size, obviously.

Oh, my God, 212. I want him to do 212. It's going to be scary. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, he'll be a force to be reckoned with. And he's 21 or about early 20s? Early 20s. I don't know if confirmed 21, maybe 21 to 23.

Early 20s. Somewhere in that range. That's fucking crazy. He's probably looked kind of similar to this for the last five years, I bet, too, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's looked crazy for a while. John Cena gets tested because the WWE, they implemented some drug tests and some people snicker about it because they're like, oh, it's fake ass wrestling, you know?

But John takes his test and he puts them on the wall at his gym and he's got like a few hundred of them kind of scattered throughout the wall on the gym because he actually does get drug tested. But I don't know how extensive it is. I don't know what they're specifically testing for. Have you ever gone to the lengths of getting someone like a blood test? Have you ever pressured somebody or someone taking you up on like, hey, I want to prove to you that I'm clean? You're probably laughing because you probably know who it is, huh? Julian Smith? Is that the one? No, I was thinking of Kwame, but I don't know.

Oh, Kwame. Kwame, yeah. So Kwame did one for Tony and them at Olympia 2018, I believe, where Tony just like randomly took Kwame into the men's restroom and did a pee test in front of him. And then they took the pee and tested and he came back natural. But yeah, probably the biggest one, though, would be Julian Smith. I don't know if you guys know. Yeah. But so his big thing is he's been claiming natural for a long time but he's also admitting or admitted to taking pro hormones so he wants me to come drug test him to prove he's a natural athlete but i'm like okay

like yeah you might be natural say at the moment i drug test you but you haven't been a lifetime natural so our big thing every time we bump into each other is i'm trying to guess and see if he's in his most crazy condition of all time to go take him to do a drug test. But if he's not in his most crazy condition, obviously I know he's like maybe, you know, in between cycles, maybe he's natural, maybe he's not, who's to really say, but we always go back and forth because he always flexes. And I know he does this when he's natural. He tries to like pressure me into drug testing him. I know when he's natural because he tries so hard every time he'll have like four of

his friends come and say, Hey, come. All right. I'm ready to do the drug test. When you come to drug testing, he'll call me like 15 times. Um, but then on the other end of the spectrum, when I have a hunch that he's unnatural and I'm pushy about it, he doesn't want to do it. Yeah. But then once again, he claims natural, but he's admitted to taking pro hormones. So I guess it's kind of your perception of what you believe is natural or not. Yeah like yeah so that's the thing he's admitted to taking pro-hormones right right then so definitely not a lifetime natural but i guess it's like up to everyone's interpretation of what they believe is natural or not so that's where it just really gets confusing because i always was under the impression especially with my videos just asking someone

if they're natural it should be a pretty straightforward question but now i've gotten to the point and after like talking to people i'm like damn i have to be like really detailed like okay um are you a lifetime natural have you taken this this this this and this how long have you been on this have you taken any breaks in between like i'm about to get so detailed because everyone's perception of natural is just so misconceived now do you uh feel like some of this is just the American way? Like to kind of sell people on a dream and you don't really tell them the whole story? I think it's pretty popular everywhere would be my guess.

But I think just American culture is like so much bigger, would be my guess at least from what I see, just in general, like social media wise, and especially who's here. Cause I feel a lot of, you know, you have like Callum Von Moger, everyone just kind of makes their way. It seems to like California, Venice area. And I think about like, uh, the things that are advertised the most to us are the worst for us, you know, Coke, Pepsi, McDonald's, all that kind of stuff, usually like cheap. And it just has a lot of advertising dollars behind it.

And maybe they're not telling you, like, they're not sharing with you how bad it is for you. Right. They're just, they're just trying to make it seem like you need this in your life, you know, and they're not sharing the whole, the whole story with you. And I think maybe some of that is kind of going on in the fitness industry too, where, you know, people are saying, Hey, this, this is great. You know, this does this for you, whether it's a supplement, um, or whether it's their training style or whatever. And they're maybe not sharing with you the whole story on like how they got that lean, you know, here's my program. It takes me 30 minutes a day, you know, and here's, they're just trying to like sell you on stuff. And I think that most things in America has been sold that way for a really long time. If you look at like an infomercial, if you've ever been

suckered into buying something from that, you buy something and it breaks, you know, three days later. You're like, man, that was a real piece of shit. And I just think that that's maybe the part of just the country that we live in and the way that we've all kind of grown up. No, most definitely. I think, too, just especially in the last year, what we've been talking about has just become so much more popular and prevalent. Like almost every conversation, especially when I go to the expos, everyone I talk to is like the first thing everyone's talking about. Or if you walk up to two guys talking at an expo, more times than not, they're going to be talking about what they're taking. And it's just, it's kind of crazy.

It's almost become like a multivitamin or like taking a whey protein, like what whey protein are you taking now? It's like, what ester of Tremblone are you taking? You're talking about athletes or just normal people? Just normal people. Like people waiting in line to meet Mark. Like just people in the fitness. Yeah. It's kind of crazy.

But you wouldn't guess that they're on anything, obviously, by the look of them. I think it's solely because, yeah, they believe in the magic pill that they take something and they're going to instantly become the next Mike O'Hearn, next Simeon Panda, next Julian Smith, next whoever. But, yeah, they just don't have that nutrition and the training dialed. And even me, I've been training for a couple of years now. I still don't even think I have nearly enough knowledge because it's always adapting. I know everyone's body and genetics is different, responds different to different different things and i think it's just a trial and error time thing of testing with your body and seeing what works yeah and then you won a show recently not too

long ago but then like the follow-up show what happened like and that was a perfect example of like learning nutrition and how my body responds so So basically, yeah, I won the first show, um, doing basically low carb all the way through the show, almost keto. And then second show, I was like, I kept hearing everyone saying like, Oh, carb up, like you'll fill out. And I had ingrained in my mind that I was flat and like stringy looking like I was lean, but I felt like I was flat. So I was like, you know you know what and for instance i was taking in about 150 grams of carbs a day and then the two days prior to the show each day i consumed about like 500 grams carbs like way way too much so spiked my insulin super high spilled over got like really watery soft because like i like i didn't know, but I was already like filled out. I already

looked like great. I looked way better a week out than I did the day of the show. And it was just the trial and error learning that obviously going from 150 grams of carbs, maybe I should have bumped maybe to 200, tested out the day before. And then if I'm starting to spill over, you know, maybe drop back down to 150 where I was at. Because if you look how you want a week out from the show, like why change anything? And I I tried doing the magic change something at the last second to try and pull off a phenomenal miracle and other times than not you're going to destroy your physique so yeah yeah and I was learning the hard way but it was a life lesson yeah and it's a hard lesson and you put it out there too you know you're right you know you're uh like a lot of like YouTube

sucks like with the comments and stuff like I hadn. Like I didn't know what to expect with Sarmageddon. It got super negative quick. With your channel and just like your YouTube presence, period. Like did you expect to have so much like negativity come back your way? From that video? No, no, no. Just from like in general. Like, you know, you started it because you're like, it seems like you were trying to let people know like hey like this is you know they're kind of lying to you and then

come to find out everyone's like now they're mad at them but they're even more mad at you for pointing them out you know what i mean i mean i kind of expected it because like i said even i'm fans of people you know and okay you're always going to do everything to defend you know who you're fond of whether that's family friends an idol, someone you look up to. So I definitely expected, you know, if I was to call out Mark about something, obviously I would expect his fan base to retaliate and defend him. So it was something I definitely expected. Maybe not to the extent.

I didn't know how, like, diehard Larry Wheels fans were until I put up that Larry Wheels video. But, like, damn, they're ruthless. Like, I learned the hard way I was like holy shit he has a loyal fan base which is awesome for him and awesome for his fans that they love him that much and support him like that but yeah I definitely expected it getting into it because I knew me myself like I'd probably do the same thing if I was a diehard fan of someone. They got called out for something. You get in any fights with anybody? The funny part is I did a podcast with Bradley Martin and we talked about this and I was like, I've been trying.

And like I'll like try and like even offer to like spar people like that I know have a problem with me. And I'm like, you know what? Like we can just go like spar in a ring, something like that. You know, it's sanctioned. Like there's not going to be any felonies charges anything like that um but and i try and get under people's skin a lot of the time because i'm definitely a troll like i just like to troll people and i also get the common question of like do you hate this person or why do you do this to this person it's really just like to have fun like i don't hate anyone i've called out honestly it's just like an entertainment uh

content purpose and I have nothing against them. Maybe if, you know, they're lying and being super deceitful or they have bad character traits, like for sure. But I always like to give people the chance, you know, to retaliate back at me a little bit. Who's being super deceitful? There's some good names out there let's see Brad Castleberry for sure at first but I think he has changed I don't think he's posting as much of the like fake weight like benching 675 type content anymore which is great

and I love him for that let's see like Summer Rae she does a ton of like photoshopping but claims she never photoshops and then she'll photoshop like her swimwear and her clothing site to help like promote sales um let's see and there's a lot of it too like even not just in the fitness industry but just youtube and social media in general you'll have people that fake so much or stage certain videos just for the views and the response from the like the audience so for instance

prank or prank channels i don't know if you've had like cassidy campbell or any of them on like the podcast not or yet but he knows a lot about how much of fake youtube content there is there well they'll put out a craigslist ad looking for an actor for like 20 to 50 dollars to fake a reaction and then they'll go try and make it look like oh this is just a random stranger on the street, and they're pulling off this crazy reaction and this, that, and then you get the viral video. And it's more common than I think a lot of people would think. And not just with pranks, like just YouTube in general, like so much fake and set up everything.

What's up with this wall sit that you exposed? My girl, Heba. So me and her, funny story with that one is I probably would have said she's one of the most fake and deceitful people in the industry but now we're really good friends because we like started to see eye to eye on the whole situation but that was my first really big video was the walsit with heba and called her out i felt really bad about it what was it um 900 pound walsit and so i called her out she posted a clip to instagram doing a 900 sit. And so I called her out. She posted a clip to Instagram doing a 900 pound wall sit. I called her out about it. Obviously she responded saying like, Hey, I could

do it fly down to Vegas and I'll prove to you I can do it. So I didn't back down from it. I flew out to Vegas, met her. And then I didn't know at the time, but she was dating real world tactical. Who's the blurred out guy in the clip. And got super heated about I thought he was just her trainer at the time but yeah they were dating and yeah they start to stack the plates trying to get up to like 900 pounds and then she's left and that's the thing is after she collapses the first time I got legitimately scared for her health and safety because I didn't want her like snap a leg or something with me filming oh so and then you can see like it even like went to her head a little bit.

And the fucked up part is Tony's dating her, and he's like, get up, do it again. And I'm just sitting there in silence. So you're there filming? Yeah, so they wanted to film it to put it on my channel to basically prove to me that the weights are real and whatnot. But she's actually a great girl. How much weight did she

get up to right there i think she was pretty close i think she was a couple plates away and she added a couple to try and push it past um what she had initially gotten to i think she was maybe what four plates away by the time she collapses that's what i was gonna say like even that right there is like holy shit like still crazy without saying yeah and she is an awesome girl she's like super cool what's the story did she just end up using a couple fake plates um so what she says is after this was filmed she showed me clips on her phone filming it where oh she would she was holding it a lot longer but then she also had the argument that she got in the car crash the day before

and that it was injury related and this is where me and Tony get heated with one another. Tony calls me the N-word which made no sense. I'm pretty sure he still hates me by the way. Those were good times. She's super awesome. What was he mad about? I think it was just being

the defensive boyfriend type thing. I called her out but I didn't know they were dating at the defensive boyfriend type thing like I caught her out but I didn't know they were dating at the time why would he even like put her in that position that's weird I don't know and what's funny is I was at the Arnold this year and I was there with Generation Iron and they

talked to real world tactical or Tony a little bit and they were like hey Tony Kenny's here like can he come by the booth and he's like yeah you can come by the booth but that motherfucker ain't stepping in my booth. I'm like, okay, yeah, that can be respected. We had some beef in the past. So then what happened with the Hiba thing? She was showing you stuff on her phone.

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, she was showing me the car crash that happened the day before, how the injury impaired her from doing the longer duration that she showed me like on her phone um but no she turns out to be like super cool super down to earth and like no problems with her and we've filmed a lot of content since then like together at the Arnold and then recently at Olympia a couple times so but definitely my biggest video for sure yeah uh who have you gotten threats from you gotten threats from anybody I don't know if i'm able to say there's some current losses yeah you probably know

um there's lawsuits i can't make any claims yeah i've had a couple lawsuits i like defamation wow defamation slander a couple different individuals you can't mention the name for legal reasons or yeah i'm trying to settle it so okay yeah trying to put water under the bridge okay yeah but um but and then not just from that individual though but i've received like a couple threats before nothing's ever been done in any type of way but just like messages you know does that ever like probably pretty standard i would think yeah do you ever feel the back of your like, if I say something about the wrong person, they could really like have you. Who?

Oh. But the thing was, I never had beef with him. So that one caught me off guard. So, yeah, that was probably the one, though, where that's someone I would never want to, like, cross the wrong way. Okay. Especially because I've heard some pretty crazy things with him. Yeah. Because that recent video where he went after somebody and he what was he saying he's like i will fuck

all of you up oh yeah over and over and yeah yeah he would he would fuck you up that man can fight yeah yeah but that one uh yeah not only would i not want to like pick anything with him like that was probably one of the most least expected too because I've never made a bad video about Mike in any type of way or anything he was just pissed at you because of what you do kind of thing um yeah because he was dating Narman I guess like he was hot-tempered over like the breakup and I totally get because like he's trying to like defend her and you know for sure so and it was admirable we saw eye to eye after talking on the phone and everything so yeah we pretty much squashed the beef yeah and then like you'll go up to people's booths

and stuff and like kind of like linger in the background and like they see you and they're like oh shit here he comes again like go again like where do you like where do you get the balls to do that because like there's times where like there's somebody that like i'm friends with that i see at a booth where i'm like oh man i don't know if i want to like bother them right now get those weird butterflies exactly yes yes and that's for somebody that like i'm excited to see that would be happy to see me back but like at the same time you're like i mean yeah like have you just always just like not really give any fucks about things like that or did you develop this over time yeah i think it things just not give a fuck attitude

i don't know it's a good question i've just never really like had like the butterflies like that i'm trying to think yeah because like watching i think it's partially because he is like an unfairly imposing individual he's a big guy he's 6'4 255 like i'll be the guy to call you out you know what i mean right yeah but um well what's too, is I used to actually wait in the lines back in 2017 to call these people out, like Brad Castleberry or whoever it may be. But now I've gotten to the point where it's like I'll go talk to someone. But it's also bad because a lot of people know who I am now. So they kind of know what's coming. Whereas before I had the surprise factor and they thought I was just like someone random.

So they kind of know what's coming if they see me at their booth now, which is becoming a problem. So I'm going to start investing like disguises or something and let go of the expos. But yeah, normally I just approach and then ask like the question or like the question or, you know, whatever is being presented or whatever the problem is. And just kind of like film from there. Do it really raw doing it raw yeah going raw yeah damn yeah things get pretty intense sometimes i saw there was one thing where you were uh talking to a guy and um he was just like defending whoever's booth he was at and he was like the guy doesn't want to talk to you and you kept kind of referencing that the

guy was wearing a bra because he was wearing like a he was like, the guy doesn't want to talk to you. And you kept kind of referencing that the guy was wearing a bra because he was wearing like a deep V-neck. What were you trying to do there in that video? So it was a natty or not on Jeff's side. I mean, you probably know him well and a lot of people do in the industry. But he's been kind of like, I guess, the younger version, Mike O'Hearn, where a lot of people are questioning whether he's been natural or not since he's been a teenager so um that was the first time i've ever seen him at an expo or heard of him being at an expo and i kind of saw the opportunity like oh

cool like i can film with him in person talk about him being a natural athlete and as soon as i came up and asked like the natty or not question that was when his friend in the bra stepped in and then uh hey yeah you're looking for that video? That dude looked pretty funny. That shirt is ridiculous. Was it your Olympia video? Yeah, yeah, the Olympia. I think it was called, like, I didn't expect this or something.

The one with David Laid on the thumbnail. So Jeff isn't that big, but what are the reasons for him? Is it the way he markets? Like, what is it to be the unnatural um so the funny part is i think he's natural now because he has lost a lot of size and he's not nearly as conditioned as he used to be okay so and he still looks great like compared to say like the average individual or average gym goer for sure you can kind of see him like in the background behind the bra guy like talking to people but um he compared to when he got his pro card and men's physique and got like the ifbb he just looked entirely different so i don't think

he was natural at that time but i think he is now and that was going to be my question to him and that was when this guy stepped in and went full-on defensive i get small shirts defensive but i love how he does the arm cross too to try and make his arms look bigger the entire clip this kid is so stoked that he's seeing he's waiting for live right now yeah he's waiting for shit to pop off i didn't notice that until editing i was editing the footage i was like damn i had no idea that kid was there the whole time he was so pumped he's just like smirking the whole time in the background that's awesome oh my god i can't stop looking at the kid but then yeah yeah who's uh look at that thing who's taking who's taking this the best massive brian shaw in the background

yeah who's taking this the best out of everybody that you've uh kind of called out or you know like has there been someone who just has had fun with it? They're like, fuck it, man. Like, you know, or has everyone kind of taken exception to it? I mean, everyone's been pretty good about it, to be honest. What do you think? Oh, yeah. I guess like Kristen Nunn. Do you know her, the female? I'm not sure.

She's a super jacked female. But I made a video on her because she she posted some blood work I believe on her Instagram or something and I at the time interpreted as her claiming natural but I guess she had posted the blood work showing that she wasn't transgender or something like that because that's what people were claiming so there was this big misconception but um people were saying that she used to be a guy or something I I guess, apparently, is the thing. But she has a remarkable physique. I think even crazier in person, to be honest,

which isn't really that normal, because a lot of the time when you see these individuals, more times than not, they're going to obviously look better on Instagram. But you see her in person, and she looks way crazier. She's got those wrist wraps on. She was at Olympia this year and her vascularity and just like the striations and the dryness was like crazy.

But yeah, super crazy physique for a female. I have seen this girl. And she's yoked. She's jacked. But for sure, you can understand why she gets the natty or not question. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this,ed. But for sure, you can understand why she gets the natty or not question. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Let me ask you this, Kenny. But she took it incredibly well. Super humble, super funny. Yeah. Super great girl. What's the, I guess, what's the intent with your content continuously moving forward? Like, what are you trying to get? Like, a 16 or 17-year-old kid is watching your content.

What do you want them to get from it? I mean, just to have an open mind about everything, not necessarily to be like, okay, everyone's on, um, anabolics or steroids. So I need to do that. That's definitely not the message. So if you're listening to this now, that's definitely not the message behind my channel. Um, but just have an open mind to everything. You know, if someone tells you something, don't just believe it because you're there,. Look at it objectively. Do the research behind everything. Know exactly nutrition, diet, supplementation, when someone's trying to push a product rather than something that's actually beneficial. So like like i said just the biggest message would just yeah be have an open mind

be honest be transparent and you know try and do the same and replicate the same in response do you see yourself doing this in five years or you think you'll morph into doing something slightly different so what i'm wanting to do and still kind of striving to do with my youtube is use it more as like a marketing platform so i I'll kind of continue to be, I guess, like the keemstar of the fitness industry, maybe drift into other parts of YouTube as well, incorporate other parts into fitness as well just to make it more entertaining

and build a bigger audience. And then once we figure out where we're going to be living and be situated, I want to definitely like open a gym. Oh, cool. Kind of like become more like stationary in one spot. So, yeah. I saw a video where, so you're a guy that calls people out and you're a guy that kind of ends up clowning on people, right?

And then you had another guy that does the same thing. He did the same thing to you. How did that feel? You know, you had, I think it's Fillion is this guy's name, right? Right, yeah. And I think he made a video about you. I think I made one on you too, huh? Oh, yeah, yeah.

For sure. How does that, when somebody responds back to you, do you enjoy that? Are you like, hey, here we go. This is what I wanted. Gloves are off and now we get to get after it. I think that's how I used to be like, uh, ask me like a year ago, I probably would have been, yeah. Like gloves off. Like, Oh, this is awesome. Let's like, keep going back and forth. Now I've gotten to the point where it's like, I just kind of let them say what they want. And then like that, that's it, you know? And I don't hate anyone for making videos

on me. I think anyone can say anything about me because that's what I do. So it's only fair that I receive the same type of treatment. So, you know, if people make videos on me, that's totally fine. But if I'm to like respond or not, I guess it really just depends on like the situation and what they say. So definitely out of reflex, I would have made a response video to every single video someone made on me. But now I'm like more selective and you know i'll watch videos and i actually more so more times than not get entertainment out of actually just watching like what people say or how they interpret things and like your videos

yeah because i don't know if you've ever like in your spare time you should just go on like youtube type in mark bell and go to like most recent uploads and you'll help like see videos of like people with like five subscribers like talking about you like whether they like you or not and it's kind of hilarious especially the ones that don't like you just to like hear the reasons of why they don't like you it's pretty comical and fun i just wish that guy did a better job making fun of me right like i thought he did i thought he did okay but i thought i i think i i think I'm pretty foolish, especially on social media. I think I put myself out there and do some weird shit.

I thought he could have crushed me a lot better than that. Maybe that's because I grew up with two older brothers. I don't know. By the way, Fillion, if you're listening, I had sex with my wife this morning. He said he finds that to be cringy that I talk about that all the time, but I like to celebrate it because us married guys, we got to celebrate these things. That's true. That's true.

Oh, shit. Way to go, Mark. Yeah. Hey, why not celebrate it, right? Fuck yeah. I know what life's like with kids. Yeah. I think that's the best response too,

rather than like, I've seen a lot of people get frustrated at like call out videos. I thought he was pretty funny. I thought he was pretty funny, but I thought he could have done it better. I think if you see the humor in it, and you can like laugh at yourself through like other people's content, it just makes it way more enjoyable. Yeah, I find it's crazy how bad it affects people.

Just with the Sarmageddon thing, I found out that people had made videos about me in the series just based off of what happens when I search Sarm's. oh let me what happens when i search sarms and like it was a bunch of at the time sarms uh sarma again was like top of the list and then eventually it was like uh somebody used my entire name and the series in their title and then my picture in the thumbnail i was like huh that's interesting like oh this guy's made four videos about like wow okay and then i stumbled upon other people's videos and like people was like really really upset and I took it as flattery and my way of thanking them is I put a little bit of clips of a couple different ones in the last episode just being like thanks guys but like I wasn't like upset or anything I just thought it was interesting because reading the comments it was like if Mark Bell keeps putting this this uh what they always got called the soy boy for some reason if mark bell keeps

putting this soy boy up on a pedestal i am never buying another mark bell slingshot product ever again it's like well you guys know that he was the first one to do this right there's a there's a small movie called bigger stronger faster where everyone's open about pd and if you've you've been okay with him for years because of that like you know what changed now so it is interesting to me like doing anything can upset so many people for any number of reasons i just always found that really interesting hey man yes i think it it took me a while and like it took me a while to like not let that shit get under my skin. There's Reddit threads about you. I know.

I didn't know that till like yesterday. Yeah, dude. It used to like really cause like I'd be like, fuck, I just train. I don't chill shit. I don't sell anything. I'm just putting out content. And that used to really just be like, fuck. It used to like mentally I was like, fuck, this is fucking annoying.

You know? But I think it just, it, it, it takes a while for you to stop caring. Cause that thick skin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's good. Well,

everybody wants to be single digit body fat and strong and big. And so they're going to throw shit at you. I mean, right. Nigerian too. That helps. I'm trying to be Nigerian. This fucking ain't working.

We've talked about it. You know what you gotta do. I know the path. I know the direct path. I think that's the thing, too. No matter what content you put out, you're always going to have someone that dislikes it. I had a talk with someone the other day about even if my channel was only giving to charity or doing something, you're always going to have those keyboard warriors in the comments or something.

Why are you giving that charity? What are you doing with that? Why are the only childhood cancer? why not all forms of cancer what the fuck man why only female why only breast cancer what about prostate cancer why are you sexist you're like no matter what you do you can't win you're always gonna have the haters regardless what you do so the keyboard warriors they're always going to prevail yeah where can people find you they want to find out more about kenny ko i mean obviously youtube kenny ko or instagram real kenny ko so and then what's your home address just kidding i do want my home address

to catch these hands uh make more threats like i've gotten before you can catch me at Reno, Nevada great to have you on the show, appreciate it strength is never a weakness weakness is never a strength, catch y'all later