Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 334 - Keto For Performance and Aesthetics ft. Chris Irvin

Episode Date: February 21, 2020

Yesterday we talked about the Ketogenic Diet in full and broke it down so anyone can understand it, today we are talking all about the keto diet for performance and aesthetics! Chris Irvin, The Ketologist, is the education manager for Perfect Keto, has his M.S. in Exercise and Nutrition Science and is now a leading expert in the Ketogenic Diet. As he learned more about the ketogenic he realized that many of the top researchers and experts that are leading the charge in new discoveries related to the ketogenic diet, are not publishing their work in easily digestible, comprehensible, and accessible way for the general public to understand. This is what lead him to start his brand, The Ketologist. If you like this episode, please go back and listen to the first part of our conversation here: https://lnk.to/ketologist1 Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Visit our sponsors: ➢Icon Meals: http://iconmeals.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Perfect Keto: http://perfectketo.com/powerproject Use Code "POWERPROJECT10" at checkout for $10 off $40 or more! ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

You guys know how much I love Icon Meals. I've been talking about it forever. You know, I grab, you know, burgers here and there from like In-N-Out on the go and I, you know, am constantly eating a lot of meat because I'm on a carnivore diet, but the Icon Meals make it super convenient for me. They have breakfast selections. They got other meat selections. You get stuff a la carte. You can get just the meat. One of my favorite things from them, aside from the bacon cheeseburger, is they just have shrimp. I just get a big old thing of shrimp, and I cook that sometimes with a steak. So it's just an add-on to a lot of the stuff that I'm already eating.

But I absolutely love Icon Meals, and I think you guys should give it a shot too. Yeah, Icon Meals isn't just for people that are either on the war on carbs, not war on carbs like me. When Mark's not looking, I actually will throw in a little bit more carbs here and there, potentially some Icon Meals pancakes because they're incredible. Yeah, they fit literally any diet, like whatever the diet is. If you're full vegan, I think they even have like full vegetarian meals. Carnivore, they have full carnivore meals. If you're like me, they have stuff with potatoes, rice, all the good stuff.

Really, like I said, any diet diet they have an option for you and i think one of the weird things to say about icon meals but it's true is that like it's legit real food i'm telling you some of these meal prep companies suspect but like you get a lot of i guess there's a lot of variability like they have the chicken cordon bleu there's the sliders yes exactly gotta pause real quick the sliders um and there's chicken fajitas there's there's sweet potato fries bro like everything is so dope and then the macros are all there it's just there's so much different food to eat that you can make fit your day yeah a lot of stuff in there that you normally wouldn't even know how to cook for yourself yeah yeah on top of that, it's super easy and convenient. Not only is it easy to just take it out the fridge, put it in the microwave, but they'll

ship it directly to your door. Head over to iconmeals.com right now. Check out the entire selection because you're going to sit there for a hot minute, throw a bunch of stuff in your car, and at checkout, enter promo code POWERPROJECT for 10% off your entire order. So right now I'm eating that birthday cake perfect keto bar. It's not your birthday, bro. It's not my birthday for another seven months.

But even so, I think it has some sprinkles in it and it's so soft and gooey and juicy. Like that, not juicy, but gooey. But that bar, that bar is so good. Gooey, I don't know about that word. Gooey, gooey. Yeah, I'm enjoying the perfect keto bars too and you know i'm doing the carnivore diet and you guys know you know a lot of people been following

along been doing carnivore 100 but it's great to have a snack in here you know they're here and there you know otherwise you're just going to lose your mind you know and if you try to abstain from stuff for too long it can make you ricochet or go the wrong way, go the wrong direction for too long and cause too much damage. So I've been digging the birthday cake bars a lot. Those are freaking awesome. And then I haven't had it in a little while, but I remember the cookie dough bars are amazing. And that cinnamon roll one is just absolutely amazing as well.

Yeah. I'm still all team cookie dough. You can't get me off that. The Perfect Keto bars are a perfect on-the-go snack or at the office or just even at home. Head over to perfectketo.com slash powerproject at checkout. Enter promo code powerprojectbundle for $25 off any order of $100 or more or powerproject10 for $10 off any order of $40. It's a great way to cheat the system and get your collagen in for the day as well. Switching gears a little bit, how did you get into all this mess in the first place?

Ooh, yeah. Great question. So my background is I was, I'll briefly touch a couple of stages back, but I was in undergrad. I was studying exercise and nutrition science. I was a basketball player and a baseball player in college. So I was really focused on performance, wasn't really focused on nutrition. I learned about nutrition in a class, I started seeing how it was a lever that I could pull to improve my performance in the sports I was playing. So I started doing paleo. That was kind of my first thing I started doing, paying attention to my diet, doing paleo. I graduated from undergrad. By kind of a funny story, I somehow ended up doing a physique competition. So I jumped. Basically, I was sitting one night with my roommate. We were sitting on the couch eating pizza, just not in tune with our diets at all. And we were talking

about a friend that was doing a physique competition. He was like, you know, have you, uh, I was like, I think I could do something like that. And he's like, no, there's no way we're sitting here eating pizza. Like you'd never be able to get your diet in check. So I signed up for a physique competition 12 weeks later that night. It was just like, I'm doing it. Let's do it. And yeah. And, uh, while, while I was training for that, I was following, you know, this is before I knew about keto. I was following low fat, carb cycling, calorie restricted, tons of cardio, all the things you can do to just destroy yourself and destroy your health. I did all of those. I got down to, you know, 5% body fat or something like that. And I looked at myself and I'm like, you know, my physique looks awesome, but I feel like hell.

You know, like what's going on here? Like, you know, my physique looks awesome, but I feel like hell, you know, like what's, what's going on here. Um, so then, then that was kind of my, like, I got to look at nutrition a little bit more and understand this because like, there's more than just calories and there's more than just, you know, macros and stuff like there, there's something else that needs to be paid attention to. So I decided to go back to school for, um, exercise, go get my master's for exercise and nutrition science.

So I went down to university of Tampa and I studied down there and I was, I went to a conference and I was introduced to keto by Dr. D Augustino. He was presenting at the conference. So, you know, great introduction by one of the best in the, in the industry.

Um, and I started studying it for sports performance. So I, you know, when I first heard of keto, I was like, Oh, great weight loss diet,

but nothing for me. I'm not looking to lose weight, so I'm not going to start it. And, um, but then I was like, oh, great weight loss diet, but nothing for me. I'm not looking to lose weight, so I'm not going to start it. But then I started seeing, okay, endurance athletes have benefits from keto. Cool. What about strength and power? There's not a lot of research out there on that. Could they benefit from it too? So I started working in an exercise physiology lab, studying keto and sports performance in college athletes and college students. And then I stumbled across a book that was called tripping over the truth by Travis Christopherson, which highly recommend for anybody out there who hasn't read it. And it opened up the therapeutic side of this diet that I didn't

know about, I had no idea that the keto diet was potentially beneficial for cancer and diabetes and Alzheimer's. And I was like, wow, there's there's something more to this. So I, I kind of shifted focuses. And I was fortunate enough that I was actually able to go volunteer in Dr. D'Agostino's lab for a few weeks, and get to learn from those people, which like best experience of my life, it really like, it put a lot of purpose in my heart for doing this, seeing like the hard work that those people were doing, and, and how much good they were doing for the world. It was like, man, I want to spend the rest of my life doing this type of stuff. And then from there, I kind of decided that my intention and purpose was going to be to try to get out there and educate the masses a little bit more

and try to help this research get out there for the general population to learn more about. And now I'm in this mess of it now. Can you explain a little bit to our listeners how Dominic D'Agostino utilizes the ketogenic diet? I mean, very unconventional way. I think a lot of it has to do with people that were like scuba diving or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah. So he does a lot of work with – he's like a superhero, right? Like when you look at the stuff this guy does. Hey, deadlift 600. It's he's like a superhero, right? Like when you look at the stuff, this guy does pounds for 10 reps and stuff like that. Right. Yeah.

I mean, I saw him the other day when he was like curling weight that I was like, I don't even know if I benched that way. You're like dumbbell curling. What's going on? But yeah, so he started getting into studying ketones. He was studying oxygen toxicity. So it was, you know, these like seal divers who when they um they start getting down to like uh really deep depths and they're underwater for a prolonged prolonged period of time uh they start having seizures under there and it's from like a buildup

it's oxygen toxicity that calls that or that causes that and uh i don't remember the exact story of how he stumbled upon ketones i think it had something to do with, he had stumbled across the work of Dr. Veach, Richard Veach, who actually just recently passed away. So rest in peace to him. He's one of the greats in this industry. But I think he stumbled across his work and it kind of, he made a connection that he thought ketones would be beneficial for that. And he found that, you know, supplemental ketones were incredible for reducing oxygen toxicity. And I think that kind of opened up the door for him to start studying it for more, uh, for different metabolic disorders. And, uh, you know, the people in his lab are doing, you know, like Dr. Angela Poff, if nobody's ever come across her stuff, she kind of took the stuff that he was doing and started studying it for

cancer. And she did a lot of really great work in, in, you know, ketones and ketogenic dieting for cancer. And so his lab is just producing some of the best work in the space and stuff that's like it's changing people's lives. And if it hasn't changed, it hasn't changed as many people's lives as it should yet, but it's coming. Like the stuff that they're doing is going to change this world. And, you know, it's huge kudos to them for what they're doing. I think if it wasn't for Dominic, we wouldn't have exogenous ketones, right?

No. Well, we would probably have ketone esters, which if anybody's ever tried that, it tastes bad. We talk about the digestive problems of having the MCTs. It's about tenfold with the ketone esters. I think they're getting better with them now. Yeah. Before him, there was ketone esters that were super expensive and not able, but the general population couldn't really get access to them. And now because of him, there was ketone esters that were super expensive and not able, but the general population couldn't really get access to them. And now because of him, we have these ketone salts. So yeah. Are there differences in terms of the application of keto when it comes to,

cause you mentioned endurance athletes, but then strength and power athletes, martial artists, are there differences in the way they can apply it if they want to do a ketogenic diet for better performance? Yeah. So I always start this conversation by kind of talking about like a little bit of self-realization and realizing where you're at. So for the elite athlete or somebody who's trying to get that extra, you know, one to 2%, definitely. So you got to tailor it. Like there's definitely some things that you have to do, but for the average Joe, like myself, I'm going to do just fine in those areas following a standard ketogenic diet. Well,

I guess I shouldn't say standard ketogenic diet. I think that higher protein is going to be beneficial, but I think that I'm going to be able to, I've seen it myself. I can make strength gains. I can make a muscle gain. I can still have a good amount of like explosiveness and things like that following a keto diet. So I think that for those people, I don't really think there's a whole lot that you have to do. You know, I don't know that if you're just an average Joe that's going to a CrossFit gym, I don't think that you really need to do, you know, 300 grams of cyclic dextrin or something like that before you see your workout. I don't think that's going to really move the needle for you. But for the elite athletes out there, or the people who are trying to take it

that extra step, I think that there is some things that you need to do. And I think that for those people, it's probably some carbohydrate manipulation, using carbohydrates around the training session, kind of using them as an ergogenic aid, I think is pretty beneficial. And then from there, there's probably some hyper focused things you can do, like, you know, determining where your protein should actually be. So if you want to dial it in a little bit, you know, where should your protein be based on your body composition and how you're training? Where should your calorie intake be? What supplements can you take to kind of enhance your training? You know, how should you be using electrolytes to make sure that you're

getting the most out of your training, things like that. So I think that it's highly individualized, but for, you know, 80% of the people out there, probably even more, probably 95% of the people out there just go on standard keto with higher protein is going to be just fine in my opinion. Can you explain a little bit about how, like how the body utilizes glycogen versus how the body utilizes fat when it comes to producing energy, when it comes to exercise? And maybe is there a difference in the way an athlete that utilizes higher fat performs? Got it. Yes. So glycogen, which is just like your stored glucose, right? So we have glycogen stores in our cells. Glycogen can be broken back down into glucose and it can be used as energy.

It is a more rapid form of energy. So you can, glucose and glycogen are, you're going to have access to it and it's going to be able to produce energy more quickly than fat. So I think that that's kind of an important consideration. But when it comes to like athletes who are fat adapted and how, what was that specific question on how you wanted to, yeah, the difference in the way potentially a fat adapted athlete performs versus an individual that is eating 300, 400 grams of carbs, but fairly low fat. Got it. Yeah.

So one of the great studies that looks at this is a study by Dr. Jeff Volick, um, is when he was at Ohio state university, There's a 2016 study that looked at, and this was an endurance athlete, so we'll kind of start there. But he looked at carb-adapted athletes versus keto-adapted athletes. And one of the things he saw is that across the board on performance,

there was really, there was no difference in performance. I think that the high-fat group saw a little bit better performance, but what was different was the fuel utilization. So for somebody who is, and we kind of know this from a lot of research, if you're carb adapted and you've never really gotten yourself metabolically flexible, when you start using carbs, uh, you, when you burn through those, it is hard for you to tap into this extra fuel source that is fat and ketones. So for somebody who,

and the reason why this is important in the endurance community is that you can only store, you know, a few thousand calories in the form of carbohydrates. So, you know, if you're talking 2000 calories in the form of glycogen and then whatever calories you can get from eating carbs, that's not that much when you talk about, you know, somebody with like 5% body fat still has like 20,000 calories in stored fat. So for somebody who is fat adapted, they can tap into this nearly unlimited fuel supply, which means being able to maintain exercise intensity for a longer duration. So I think that that's probably the big one. probably the big one now where that that pans out really well for uh endurance athletes who aren't training at a high intensity and it and it pans out really well for average joes who maybe are training at a regular or at a you know higher intensity now for the elite athlete um being able

to maintain high energy output only metabolizing fat you know we don't have research on it but speculation is that maybe not the best approach for them. When you start talking about a basketball player, a professional basketball player, or somebody who's doing more short-duration sprinting or something like that, that's high intensity, but you don't have to sustain that energy for a long time, those people may have a little bit more complications with just you know, just metabolizing fat. But for most, most of us out there who are just exercising, what that means is it means having access to a fuel source that's unlimited, that can kind of keep us going for a longer period of time and prevent us from fatiguing too. I mean,

when we're producing ketones, remember, our brain is using those ketones. And when our brains metabolize the ketones, that means that we're going to have more energy. We have better mood. We're going to have probably more determination to get through a workout. So you're just going to be able to stick with that training a little bit better when you're when you're using fat for energy. You ever use like different kind of carbohydrates? You mentioned earlier about performance carbohydrates, I think, before or after exercise. Are those anything in particular,

or are you just talking about like healthy carbohydrates? Yeah. So I've experimented with both. I do before instead of after, because I think that there, I think carbs are better as an ergogenic aid than they are for like replenishing glycogen. I think that, you know, there's a fair amount of research out there that shows that we can replenish glycogen without the need to eat them. So I don't really think that afterwards is really provides that much benefit unless maybe you're kind of going, uh, before the workout, how far in advance approximately. Uh, so it depends on the source. So if I'm doing a whole food, healthy carbohydrate, like you said, then I'll usually try to do like hour and a half

beforehand. Like if I'm doing a sweet potato, like hour and a half, two hours before, but I've also done some experimenting with like the, resistant starches like the you can super starch and i it didn't do much for me for like resistance training but i did notice that it was amazing for playing basketball so i play a lot of basketball still and um doing it like 15 to 30 minutes before playing i actually combined that with exogenous ketones so i'll do ketone salts with the resistant starch you can and phenomenal like in terms of energy but then like sustaining that energy just really great and you know i would speculate that it's probably because as a fat adapted person i have access to those carbohydrates and the ketones and then as i burn through them i'm tapping into back into those fat stores, which is kind of allowing me to, to prolong that. So

that's what I've used is that you can super starch and I've seen, I've seen some pretty good things. And that style of carbohydrate just doesn't have the same impact on your insulin and glucose levels. Is that right? Yeah, correct. So it's a lot more slower digesting and it doesn't lead to that massive spike in blood sugar that you would get if you had, you know, the people who have like, you know, some sugar source before they work out. It's like super fast digesting. You just don't get that. I believe there's a few brands too. You mentioned you can as one of them. Maybe that one was, uh, in part with, uh, Jeff Volnick. I think maybe he's involved in that company. Right. And then there's another one called 3Carb, I believe is another one.

I don't know if you've heard of that. Oh, I haven't seen that one. Yeah, his name will come to me in a little bit, but it's a long-distance runner, a friend of mine. Oh, nice. I think helped create it. But I'm not sure if it's the same style of carb, but I think it's the same principle. That's really cool. Yeah, slower digesting.

Right. No, like the application of UCAN plus ketones before something like basketball because i feel like basketball is somewhat similar i mean not totally but similar to in some ways to martial arts um and that brian try that brian mckenzie have you heard of brian mckenzie before he's a really uh really heavy into like uh like just how you breathe he teaches a lot of that and pose running and a particular way of running, a particular style of running and stuff like that. He's here in Northern California with us up near Kelly

Sturette. I don't know if you've ever heard of Kelly Sturette before. The mobility guy. But yeah, it's fascinating. You know, all these different weird things that we can tap into. So you're mentioning it's a slower digesting carb. So maybe also too,'s a slower digesting carb. So maybe also too, maybe, you know, if you have it 15 minutes before, maybe that when you're,

you know, half an hour, 30 minutes into your basketball, maybe that's when it's starting to really pick up and you're like, oh crap, something else is hitting me, right? Yeah. And I think that for something like basketball that, or, you know, any, any sport that is the kind of that hybrid between like endurance, but also like explosiveness and muscular strength, you know, there's a lot of sports that fall into that. I think it's perfect for that. Because, you know, most people can have enough energy to kind of get going. But it's like, can how long can you sustain that level of intensity that you want to train at? And I think that like having these multiple energy

sources that you can kind of pull in at different times of the training is just super beneficial. You mentioned some self experimentation, like what kind of stuff do you do? Are you like pricking your finger all the time or like what kind of weird stuff have you gotten into? Yeah. So I've just recently, I just wrapped up doing some breath ketone testing, comparing it to blood ketone testing during a longer duration fasting. So that's kind of been doing like 36, 48, 72 hour fasts and then testing breath and blood ketones. So I like to do that. I also like to do a lot of testing of different foods. So I like to see, I don't really test ketones as much. I don't think that it's that important, but I do like to test blood glucose because it's kind of crazy what

you'll see. I mean, some people like I have a buddy who is wearing a continuous blood glucose because it's kind of crazy what you'll see. I mean, some people like I have a buddy who is wearing a continuous blood glucose monitor and he found that like sweet potatoes, no go for him. Like his blood sugar goes through the roof after he has a sweet potato. But I found that when I have a sweet potato, nothing, it's like super moderate, uh, you know, maybe a slight increase. And then, so I like to kind of tease out like what foods my body handles best and then seeing like and then what combination of foods work best. So like if I have a sweet potato with a steak, what impact does that have on my blood glucose if I just had the sweet potato alone? Right. So I like to do a lot of that kind of testing. And then also like looking at different things like impact of blood sugar on exercising and like the fasted versus fed state. I like to do

some experiments there. So yeah, I think those are kind of the big ones. And then also blood work is a big one too. So I did, I think it was about midway through last year, I did six weeks of carnivore and then I did blood work pre and post to test and see what was happening. Oh my God, you're not dead. And I'm not dead. Yeah. I ate red meat for six weeks and I didn't die. Who knew? That's super cool. It's great to have some of that information, you know, like that you can kind of see like how your body actually reacted to it. Do you have any information about what heavier individuals may be burning when they're exercising? Because I have a friend that owns a gym.

They own a CrossFit box. And they have, I wish I could remember and recall the type of apparatus they're using to test. I think it has something to do with their breath. But basically what they have found is that a lot of their heavier individuals, and it's not all, but most of them, most of their heavier individuals were burning's not all but most of them most of their heavy heavier individuals were burning through glucose like crazy even when they were in a keto like they got them on a keto diet they were even producing ketones and they were you know a couple weeks couple months in but

you know maybe that adaption you know hasn't maybe they haven't adapted to the diet just yet have you seen anything like that yeah so you So, you know, one thing it, there's a difference between when our body starts producing ketones, uh, and then when it actually starts using those ketones that it's produced things. So for somebody who, like you're saying, when you say bigger, do you mean like kind of overweight or just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Overweight. Yes. Overweight. Yeah. So for people, you know, who are, who are dealing with weight problems, that's, those are probably people who are a little bit more metabolically inflexible, you know, meaning they don't transition to burning fat and things

like that as well. What I have seen is that for those people, it does take longer to become fat adapted because, you know, we're, we're born in a, in a ketogenic state, right? Like when we're born as babies, we're in a state of ketosis. When we're drinking breast milk, there's MCTs. Best time of my life. Yeah, when we're drinking breast milk, there's MCTs in there, we're in ketosis. But then we get introduced to solid foods, right? And the way that our society is set up, solid foods is usually cereal.

And then from there, we start eating carbs, we turn into carb burners, and we never go back. So the degree that you become removed from this kind of baseline that you should be at, is kind of going to determine how long it's going to take you to adapt. So if you've been following, you know, high processed carbohydrate diet for decades, like many people have, it's going to take you a while to transition to being a fat burner, and then producing ketones, but then also using those ketones, because, you know, we ketones have to be taken into our cells via these transporters that are, they're different than what, what than what you need for glucose to get in there, right. So

these transporters do have to be upregulated and that does take time. And I think I speculate that for somebody who is kind of coming from, you know, a long period of time of eating a lot of carbs, it's going to take a little bit longer to upregulate those transporters. Along with that, I'm actually curious about this. When you mentioned that, and then you also mentioned that your buddies, uh, blood sugar who ate that sweet potato went up vastly more than yours. Does Does was he as active as you? And what I mean is like, does the level of an individual's activity performance wise athletically affect how high their blood sugar goes up when they do have something like a sweet potato or anything like that?

Yeah. So, I mean, my answer on the question is that, yes, I think that, you know, physical activity is a great predictor of insulin sensitivity, right? So it's a great predictor of you being able to efficiently utilize glucose, which means getting it out of the blood quicker, right? But in terms of like the situation with my buddy, he's also very active, you know, he does a lot of he exercises probably four or five times a week, trains at a pretty high intensity. He's a pretty big guy in terms of like has a fair amount of muscle mass and things like that. So with somebody

like him, I speculated probably being more along the lines of digestion, right? Like he's maybe digesting those carbohydrates a lot more quickly, which is probably causing that increase in blood sugar faster. Now, one thing I'd have to go back and check with him, but I think he told me that he was also that he, it maintained being elevated for a long period of time afterwards. So, you know, that could be something that would be, maybe you need to take a look at and see, okay, why did it stay elevated? Is it because were you not being active in the couple of days prior to testing that? Had you not been very active that day? Did you do something with your diet the day before that kind of threw things off a little bit that made you react in that way? You know, unfortunately,

our biochemistry is so dynamic that it's so hard to tease out all the variables to figure out what's actually causing you to have that reaction, which is like kind of the headache with doing these self experiments, because it's like, oh, you know, I have a hypothesis, I do this experiment, I'm like, well, this is why that happened. And then you think about it and you're like, well, I didn't consider like the 15 other things that may be causing it. So yeah. Is your friend ectomorph, mesomorph? Where is he? Oh, good question.

I would say. Because I think if he was a hybrid, if he, yeah, if he's like in the middle, like, or if he was ever fat, you know, I think that's going to really, I think if you were just ever fat, I think that you might have a little bit different insulin response than the next person or glucose response in this case. Totally. And he definitely is somebody who he, I wouldn't, I don't think that he was ever fat, but he was definitely not eating like the best diet for a long period of time. I think he was carrying extra body weight that he didn't need to be carrying. So I would say that's, and I agree with you too. I think that like we can restore our ability to use carbs to some degree, but I don't think that for most people, if you've spent decades destroying that process of your body, it's not going to go back to being, you know, what it was like, you're probably always going to have that deficiency

in that area that you're going to kind of always have to work around. How about electrolytes? Because we were talking about supplements and you mentioned electrolytes and I love using electrolytes before like I train, et cetera. So when do you time them and then why are they, why are they so useful? Yeah. So, um, in general, I think electrolytes are very important because, you know, if you look at the key electrolytes, like magnesium, potassium, sodium, everybody's afraid of sodium, so they don't need enough of it. I think 70% of the population is magnesium deficient. So everybody could probably benefit from using electrolytes.

But on a low-carb diet, it becomes even more important because when our insulin levels are lower, we excrete more water, which can kind of throw off our electrolyte balances. So that's the reason why you hear people like, oh, I have the keto flu, and they think that it's like carbohydrate withdrawal. It's like, no, you really most 90% of those symptoms are your electrolyte deficient. So you need to kind of work around that, which that can be exasperated by being somebody who exercises, right? Like I have a big sweat rate, like when I work out, if I walk into the gym, I already start sweating. I am ridiculous. So, so I have to really focus on that. And because

that electrolyte deficiency dehydration can be amplified by, you know, the way that my body is in terms of timing on it. I think that it's better to do it in the pre-workout window because, you know, we see that, that being even like 1% dehydrated or deficient electrolytes, it can lead to a noticeable decrement in performance. So if you want to get the most out of that performance, I think having it before is important. And there is some research that shows that in the post-workout window, we're not great at absorbing electrolytes.

So I think it can actually be a little bit more wasteful in the immediate post-workout timeframe. But I would say that for most people, I would say the whole day utilization of electrolytes is probably more important. Like making sure that you're getting enough electrolytes in over the course of the 24 hour day is probably more important than any specific time of the day that you're taking it. You know, I think that like at some times could be like sodium, for instance, having

that before a workout, I think can be beneficial. Magnesium before you go to bed probably has some benefit in it there, too. But in terms of just keeping your stores at an adequate level, I think that just keeping it keeping it in mind over the course of the day and having it, you know, enough of it is going to be most important. What about just having a small amount of carbohydrate as well to help hydrate the muscle a little further? as well to help hydrate the muscle a little further. Um, because you know, it's kind of my belief that you can have some carbohydrates and especially if you're trying to be a high level performer. So in that case that you want to have maybe a half a potato or a full potato at night to kind of get you ready for your next days, uh, whatever the thing is that you're going to do. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Cause you know, those, those carbs, when they, when glycogen gets stored,

glycogen also stores water, right? So when our cells are storing those carbohydrates, water's getting stored, I think that that's definitely beneficial. Um, I guess the question then becomes is, do you need to top off those stores, right? So, you know, if you're somebody who is long-term keto adapted, this was something that was found in research of really long-term keto adapted athletes. So people who are athletes, one, so really good metabolisms, but then two, they've been doing keto for a long time. They don't really have a problem with their glycogen stores. They're still pretty adequate. So is it going to provide much more benefit?

I'm not sure. But for somebody who's kind of dipping in and out of ketosis, not staying in all of the time, maybe their glycogen stores aren't as adequately replenished. In that case, I think it would be great for both the sake of hydrating the muscle, but then kind of keeping some of those carb stores. And you're fasting glucose and somebody else is fasting glucose amongst people that are healthy, whether you had carbohydrates or not, would be similar, right? What do you mean by that? Your resting fasted blood glucose levels would be similar amongst someone who's healthy, who's not on a low carb diet and yourself. Is that right-ish?

It depends. So my fasting blood glucose gets pretty low. And for people who have been following the diet for a while, it seems to be the same. Like, you know, it's typical for me to be down in like the 70s in the morning. And then in some cases, even like down into the 60s, you know, the recommended range, which is a ridiculous numbers like between 80 and 120, which is like, okay, where do you fall in that range? You know, it could be all, but I, you know, most people who you consider to be like healthy, like people who are maybe following like a paleo diet, exercising and things like that. A lot of times I got a pretty good chance to see this when I was working in the lab that I was at, because we would have college athletes coming in, right? So they're athletes or people that take care of themselves pretty well. Like they, you know, they're eating pretty good food and they're exercising and things like that. A lot of these guys would come in with still blood glucose in like the upper nineties,

which it's hard to know what the cause of that is, you know, is it stress induced? Is it because they're not sleeping very well? Is it because, you know, maybe when they came in for the test, they had just been out the bar the night before,

cause they're college kids, you know, who really knows why, but it does seem like even those people that their blood sugar doesn't quite get to the same level that you might get if you're going full-blown keto but comparing like paleo to just a low-carb diet probably pretty similar right and my point is is just that like it even when you're on a low-carb diet your blood glucose is just not like completely wiped out and you're not in any danger of like passing out or anything like right you feel plenty healthy and you feel plenty good to go play some basketball and go

kick some ass right right yeah i mean that and that's kind of the uh well one that's like we're talking about gluconeogenesis earlier it's like that's the reason why your blood sugar doesn't go to zero right you keep blood sugar available through this process um but yeah when you when you have ketones circulating, you know, anybody who out there who's never done keto, but it has had like the low blood sugar feeling, we know what that feels like, right? It's like you're shaky, your brain's not working well, you kind of feel like hell. But you know, you might get that at 75. But you know, like a 75 reading on your blood glucose test. But when you're keto, and you have like ketones that are like, you know, point seven or higher or something like that, you don't feel that way. And it's because the ketones

are really replacing the need for that. So, you know, I had one case back when I was working in the lab where we had a girl who her blood sugar got down to like 52, which like, for most people, you'd be like, man, she's gonna pass out, but her ketones were like 2.2. And she was like, I feel incredible. Like, there's, you know, I feel incredible. I don't feel anything. And I'm sitting there kind of... I was new to it. So I'm kind of freaking out like, oh boy, she's at like 55. Hopefully, she doesn't drop in this lab. But yeah, it's just when you have those ketones elevated, you just don't need to have that blood sugar at the same level. So the ketogenic diet is awesome for weight loss. The cognitive benefits that you

talked about earlier in the first part of this conversation sound awesome, but we're fairly vain and we just want to get jacked. What I've heard from a lot of athletes in regards to being on the diet is like they have a hard time chasing the pump. You know, it's like they want to feel good. They want to look good. than like some of the performance carbs that you had mentioned, do you have any tips for an athlete that's maybe wanting to do the ketogenic diet or they currently are doing the ketogenic diet, but they're chasing aesthetics over, you know, the weight loss or even like you said, the cognitive benefits? Yeah, great question. So, on the pump side of things, I think that for a lot of them, it's you got to just give yourself some time to get adapted. And that'll come back. I mean, I remember when I first started to like,

I would kind of walk into the gym feeling a little depleted and, and definitely feel like I couldn't get a pump going. But the longer that I stuck to it, and when I started realizing that, like, ah, have some sodium before you work out, you know, that that makes a big difference. So that's that stuff can come back. But when you talk about body composition and gaining muscle and stuff, um, I anecdotally, I've seen it in myself doing DEXA scans where I've been able to put on plenty of muscle. I mean, you talk to a lot of guys that have done keto and, you know, looking at you guys, I know you guys are low carb fans. It's pretty apparent that you can put on muscle without having to eat carbohydrates. Um, I think the biggest things to take into consideration if you want to maximize

that are there's probably three things. One is that you want to make sure that you're providing the correct training stimulus, right? If you're not providing a training stimulus that is conducive of hypertrophy, then you're not going to experience muscle gain. So most important, you know, progressively overloading your muscles in a style that's conducive of hypertrophy. Two, making sure you're getting enough protein in, right? Like we were talking earlier, you have to have adequate amount of protein if you're going to, you know,

I think that you can probably maintain muscle mass pretty well on a lower protein keto, but building it's a different story. Have to make sure that you're providing enough. Calories is a big one too. I think that people who are saying that they have a hard time gaining muscle on keto and then you look at their diets like,

well, you're having 1500 calories. Of course you're having a hard time getting muscle, you're not, you know, fueling your body appropriately. But then another one that I think the fourth one, I guess that many people don't think about is the electrolytes, because, you know, things like potassium play a really, really important role in muscle protein synthesis, right? So if you don't have an adequate amount of potassium in your diet, because you know, low carb diet can lead you to being potassium deficient, then you're not, those processes aren't going to be as efficient. So you're not going to be creating muscle as much. So I think

those are probably the four biggest things, training, stimulus, protein, calories, and electrolytes. And if you do those things, then, you know, I've just seen too many people that have built a lot of muscle doing it that way to think that you can't do it. You know, along these lines, I'm curious about this because we were talking about becoming fat adapted in the time it takes to become fat adapted. But can an individual that's been doing keto or very low carb that is fat adapted, can it go the other way where they do not process carbohydrates as well because they're not eating as many carbohydrates as they used to, or that doesn't really happen. Yeah. So there is some research that shows that like when you do a, like a massive or not even a massive one, but doing like a carbohydrate refeed after following like a low carb diet, you can have some insulin sensitivity

issues where you don't metabolize those carbohydrates as well. But a lot of those studies are studies where they did like a couple of days of like low carb or keto dieting. And you know, we're not really long enough to see if if you would actually do if you were adapted to the diet, what would happen, right. So I speculate that for most people out there, if you've been following keto for a while, and you've restored your metabolism, you're going to be able to use carbohydrates pretty well if you reintroduce them, but you're going to want to ease into it. So I think that if you are going from 30 grams of carbs a day to 250, I think you're going to probably have some problems in actually using those, you know, not going to be the best approach. But I think that if you kind

of transition into it, and you know, there was a, I'm drawing a blank on the name, but there was a really good study conducted a few years ago, where they basically were doing a keto diet. They did it for like 20 days. Then they transitioned to like a low-carb diet, and then they transitioned to like a Mediterranean diet. And in that study, they were looking at body composition more, so they were looking at could they maintain their weight loss if they did that approach. But I think that that kind of shed light on the right way to do it. They kind of went, all right, we're keto. We're at 30 grams. Now we're going to go low carb. Maybe we're at like a hundred grams. Now we're going maybe like 150 grams and kind of working your way up that way. I think that's going to be a good approach, but the source of

the carb matters too, right? Like I don't think that there's anybody's body out there who's going to do great with eating a bunch of gluten and wheat and stuff like that. Right. So, you know, having the right kinds of carbohydrates when you are reintroducing them, I think is going to be a big factor. You notice anything different with any particular training protocol in terms of like burning fat or in terms of maybe, maybe you just try to get yourself into ketosis faster or maybe while you're in ketosis, you're trying to do something more efficient to burn fat? Yeah, so we actually, when I was in grad school, we actually did an experiment where we were trying to see if we could get people adapted to the diet, which it's hard to measure adaptation, because you can't really measure if your cells are taking in the ketones, you don't really have, we don't have a way to do that yet.

But the speculation was that, you know, is there a type of training we can do to increase ketone levels and, uh, high intensity interval training was something that we saw that was really effective for ramping up ketone production. So really training at that level, um, that would kind of stimulate some fat burning what was better for getting higher levels up. So I think that, um, for now, how does that correlate to the average person out there probably playing some sort of like sport or some sort of activity that is has an endurance component to it but also a component that has to do with uh elevated intensity so i don't think that like just lifting weights uh especially the way that most people are lifting weights nowadays where it's like do a set of bench

and scroll on instagram for 30 seconds you know that's probably not going to ramp up your ketone production. But, you know, having something that's like cardiovascular based because, you know, when we're doing cardio work, we're burning a lot of fat, right? Our heartburn runs on fat. So that's what we're using there. And then doing that at like a level that's pretty intense, I think is the best way to really ramp up that fat burning ketone production. Are there any other supplements that people can think of adding in

to their ketogenic diet? Like we talked about MCT oils, we talked about ketones, potentially anything else you think people can think about in specific situations? Yeah, I like to look at supplements as you know, there's the reasons for taking a supplement is to either or either fill in a gap in your diet, or a gap in your your lifestyle or help you get closer to a specific goal. That's how I think you determine what you should take for supplements. At baseline, I think that everybody on a keto diet should take electrolytes. I think that that's the one that no matter what your goal is, you need to be doing that. MCTs have some benefit.

I think that it's probably good for people to take those two, but not necessarily essential. But then from there, I think it's like, what does your diet look like? So if you are, you know, let's say that you are, you just don't like red meat fish, right? And you're like, I'm just eating chicken right now. Well, you probably need to be supplementing with, you know, some, some omega threes of some sort, you probably need to be adding in some like micronutrients that you're not going to be getting from like chicken. So I think that that's like something to look at. And then like, let's look at lifestyle components. If you live in, I'm from the Midwest originally,

right? So in the Midwest, you don't get sunshine for five months out of the year, probably need to be supplementing with vitamin D, right? You know, you don't have access to sunshine, probably need to add that. And then on the goal side of things, it's like, okay, if your goal is to have really good workout sessions, then what are some supplements you can take to improve your workout? I think that things like beta alanine, citrulline, I think that those things can be really great. Caffeine is obviously a really great thing to improve your workouts. If your primary goal is to reduce stress, you know, then I think there's some great things out there like ashwagandha and different adaptogens like

that. If you're trying to improve your brain function, I think there's some phenomenal nootropics out there like alpha GBC, phosphatidylserine, different things like that. So, you know, like I said, on a keto diet at baseline, it's got to be electrolytes. But from there, it's what do you need to look at your diet? What do you need to fill in for filling in the gaps? And then what can you take to help get you closer to whatever your goal is? It's got me pumped because the electrolytes are my favorite supplement. So there we go. Most important one. I'm with you. Oh, it really flattens you out when you don't have them. You really feel like crap. You're like, what's wrong with me? Like this stupid diet. But as soon as you bring that back in you feel fine you know yeah we so we were last

summer me and uh dr gustin so i work at uh perfect keto and me and dr gustin we were out playing basketball outside middle of summer austin texas we were playing on like a tennis court where it was like 110 degrees on the court we were playing for like two hours and you know and like i said i'm already a sweater i'm sweating thinking about that day right now and uh and we i was just so depleted after that and i remember going home and just like i didn't have energy to pick myself up off the couch afterwards and you know i was it's one of those things like i i know the answers but sometimes you just don't do it and i didn't you know replenish electrolytes i think that night I went

out with my wife for dinner and I think I had a steak and probably drank a fair amount of wine that night and woke up the next morning and I was like, man, I just, I feel like, hell, what's going on? And I realized I was like, you'd be a dummy. You didn't do any electrolytes. And I had like, I used the element electrolytes. I really liked those. And I did some of those in water. And like 30 minutes later, I felt like it was a revival. You know, like I was like, I used the Element electrolytes. I really liked those. And I did some of those in water. And like 30 minutes later, I felt like it was a revival. You know, like I'm like, man, I'm not cramping up anymore. Like I got my brains working right. Like I don't feel like, you know, my muscles are just flat or anything like that.

So yeah, it makes a really big difference. What's it like working for Dr. Gustin? I know that you guys did a book together. You guys did Keto Answers. That's a phenomenal book. You got to love a book that just gets right to the point and has a Q&A kind of throughout the entire book. I thought that was really awesome. So thank you for that contribution.

But it's my understanding that Dr. Gustin, he was a chiropractor and a very successful one. And as he learned about the ketogenic diet, he was like, screw all this. I need to help people in a different way. And he just kind of exploded into this keto world. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, he is, he's the reason why I work here too. He's, he's been a phenomenal mentor to me and I have nothing but good things to say about him. You know, when I, when I came out of grad school, I was like really, like I was pretty afraid of like the industry and stuff, because there was just so many people who were doing it for the wrong reasons or putting out like really bad products

and stuff. And, and, you know, before I ever started even working here, I was taking some perfect keto products, because I liked them. And then when they approached me about working here, I was like, you know, I don't know, I don't know if I want to go that route of working for a company. I don't really know what they're about. But then after getting to know Dr. Gustin and seeing like one where his heart was in all of this about how he really just wanted to help people, but then looking at like his quality standards on things, I mean, for our bars that we put out, like the guy spent like a year and a half, did like 10 different iterations to make sure that it didn't spike blood sugar at all like a five point blood sugar spike and he was just like nope not good enough back to the drawing board like never seen anybody with the quality standards that this guy has so

it's really cool to see somebody in the space that is you know that has a company that they're building but they're doing it for the right reasons of trying to help people trying to you know when we when we think about product development here, and people come up with ideas for different products, his answer is usually like, Nope, somebody already has a good product there that problems already solved, we're not going to do that we're going to address the problems that people need. You know, what are the things that actually are going to help people. So it's been awesome working working for him. And, you know, his his mindset and the way that he attacks each day. I mean, he's, he's a pretty, pretty cool guy. And if anybody has the opportunity to ever, you know, meet him in person or listen to him on a podcast or anything, I highly recommend it because he's

always going to offer a different point of view than what you're used to. Awesome. Where can people find us? They can find out more information about you. Yes. So I, uh, I'm on social media as the ketologist. Um, so you can find me on pretty much every social media channel, but, uh, Instagram is the best one for me. I answer every single DM that comes into me eventually. Uh, it might take a couple of days, but every DM that comes in, I get an answer back to you. So I love helping people through that. Um, I'm also on, uh, YouTube as Chris Ervin MS. And then I have a website that's the ketologist.com that has a lot of like blog posts and things like that up for people to read. So those are probably the best ones. And then, you know, for anybody who has if you have a lot

of questions about keto, the book, like you mentioned, is a great place to start. We have like, almost 270 questions that are answered in that book. That would be another great place. You can check that out on Amazon. Are you going to any of these conventions or summits or anything like that coming up? Are you going to the Arnold Classic by any chance? That's where we'll be going. You know what? I haven't been to the Arnold in two years. Just the other day, I was like, you know what? I need to make it out there. I actually do plan on making it out there for, because I love, I love that stuff. A lot of people don't know that about me that I actually think I'm pretty into like the bodybuilding community.

I followed it for a long time. And so I do plan on being out at that. I'm also going to be at FitCon in Salt Lake city. So I'll be up there. I'm actually going to be talking on Friday at that conference. So those are the two big ones. And then in the, I'll be up there. I'm actually going to be talking on Friday at that conference. So those are the two big ones. And then I'll be at Paleo FX out here in Austin, which I think is in maybe April. Keto Con, which will be out here too. And then there's another small event that's up in the tri-state area of New York. It's called the Keto Symposium, which I highly recommend people checking out. I'm going to be speaking there, but I'm definitely the B-lister on this list. It's got Thomas Seyfried, Dr. D'Agostino,

Mike Mutzel. The top guys are going to be speaking there. So that would be another good one for- Symposium. That sounds intimidating. Symposium. I got to go to the symposium. It makes me feel fancy and formal though. So I kind of like it. Hey, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it thank you yeah thank you yeah thank you so much for having me on guys i had a blast have a good rest of your day yep you guys too wow not bad that was that was awesome i like the um the you can and the ketones ketones taste like butt but like like i'm i'm interested in that interesting but well i mean we all know this but um long pause

oh lord dude that was but that was great i think that had like the best keto information that i've ever heard seriously yeah there's so much there whether you're an athlete or not i love that a couple times he tried to like explain it and then he realized like that's not a good route to go and then he just talked normal yeah you could see him kind of computing it in his head like like a little robot stuff going off in his head but then he was like i'm not going to unleash all that there's no reason for that but there's a lot of like applicable stuff in this podcast just like stuff you can take away um and it's like that that the electrolyte aspect that he talked about i know i talk about like how much i use those

electrolytes but i think he's one of the guests or one of the only guests i think harped on the importance of it if you're using a ketogenic diet. Because a lot of people don't supplement electrolytes or don't utilize enough of it and they don't take enough sodium and they're always wondering why they feel tired. So this lack of pump that a lot of people feel when they're doing low-carb and keto might just be that electrolyte deficiency. Yeah. I mean, we know from getting a pump in the gym that it's from not having nutrients, right? And one of the nutrients can sometimes be a carbohydrate, but you know, that's a macro nutrient, but the micronutrients are going to be important too.

So if you get the micros and you're not getting the macros, maybe you can kind of get halfway in between, you know, the old pump that you used to get. And maybe, you know, when you get yourself, you get your metabolism kind of in check and get your body fat levels to something appreciable. You can start to bring some of those carbs back into. I talked about the Element one that you mentioned to me before. Yeah, they make a kick-ass one.

I know we're sponsored by some other people, but they have a fantastic product. That has been kind of brought to market by Rob Wolf. I think there's another person involved but uh the um keto gains is involved in it too he has an instagram that guy lost like uh tyler cartwright he lost like i don't know 300 pounds or something wild like that um but man those they taste really good you know that's that's one thing that's tough with those electrolyte powders it's a powder huh yeah yeah they sometimes they don't taste so good. Yeah. When you make something that tastes really good, I mean, Perfect Keto has it on lockdown

with some of their protein powders, the MCT oil powder, the bars. I mean, it's like what's going to keep you like, you know, they have subscription on there too. You can just subscribe and just keep getting them sent to your house. Yeah, grab it. I mean, that's a way to like to do it right and then uh with these guys with element too they have kind of a similar thing i think it's on amazon i think it does have a thing that you can just subscribe for but when i got it i actually

had no idea like rob wolf was involved in it and i saw his name on there too and i was like damn i was like that's kind of up i kind of upped their stock a little bit i love rob wolf he's got a lot of great information so yeah we're gonna have to get Rob Wolf on the show. We've got to get Dominic on the show. It's been a long time coming. I've been friends with him for a long time, and I've met him in person and hung out with him and stuff, but just never had him on the show yet. So we'll get to the bottom of all this. That's going to be awesome.

I'd love to meet both of them. He'll make every single person that listens to the show go keto. He really will. He really will he really will i mean he just like has so much information where you're like it just doesn't make any sense for me to do anything else you know i think um the really cool thing about dominic though is his demeanor when he talks about a lot of things i remember years ago i don't know if it was years ago but he was debating lane i think right yeah yeah they were on rogan together yeah they were on rogan together and um he's so kind too he's just not about to fight being yeah being honest man dominic like

even if he was he was spitting facts but just because of his demeanor and the way he's delivering like you he's a cool dude he's just yeah you like the guy i like the guy he had a lot of great information yeah and he's somebody that you can look at and like wait how much do you deadlift and it's like how jacked like all right i'm great information. Yeah, and he's somebody that you can look at and be like, wait, how much do you deadlift? And it's like, how jacked are – I'm going to listen to whatever the hell this guy's saying. He did it for 11 days and then pulled 600 pounds for like 10 reps. That man is a beast. I mean, it sounds like a myth or something, like a story you would tell. Be like, hey, here's what he did this one time, you know?

Oh, yeah, well, I saw him do this, you know? And he wears button-up shirts with no undershirt but he lets the chest come out and it's smooth it is smooth the legend entails of dominic dagostino oh yeah i don't want to get too too many tales or do you or too many legends i don't know were you with me on that trip when i went and visited yeah yeah we were and there was like some sort of weird like the active shooter thing going on something strange right so yeah we were he was showing us all kinds of scientifical smart stuff and we're just like in awe and then all of a sudden you know like his phone starts ringing and he picks up and he's like oh there's an active shooter

in this department he's like that is next door we shouldn't go anywhere he's like what do you mean and so i fuck what do we do now you know and then eventually i guess they i don't know they probably everything was cool whatever but we were like what that's that's scary the other thing i remember the most about like you'll protect us though right if shit goes down the crazier thing well not crazier but the other crazy thing i remember is the uber driver that we got that day it was like a minivan and the the like floor was like fake grass what oh yeah and that guy drove like a fucking maniac wow he darted into like eight lane traffic and just went. I was like, oh my gosh, we're going to die.

What a trip. It was a trip. It was kind of crazy. Yeah. That's cool that he's going to be at the Arnold. I wonder if Anthony Gustin will be there as well. Probably. They're probably cool.

Traveling packs. He mentioned some other names. Something Volnick? Yeah, Jeff Volnick. Jeff Volnick. He's in Ohio. So I should try to see if we can contact him. I have, I think I have his information through, you know, we have somebody here too in Davis that I need to need to grab.

I mean, he was just at UC Davis for a long time. His name is Dr. Finney and he's been a long time keto proponent. And I mean, he's got just the facts that these people have, the information that they have. It's just, it's just crazy. You know, it's cool that they can kind of, um, it's cool. They can kind of bring out some of this background where you can hear all this information. Then you can kind of hear like, where'd all this information go and why, like, why, like, why, like, why isn't it like readily available anymore? And it's not really like, I don't think anybody tried to bury it because they want everybody to be sick or anything weird like that.

It's just that a lot of the agenda of the country and a lot of the agenda of, you know, selling corn and selling wheat and all that stuff, it just it came to the forefront. So there wasn't really a lot of great reasons to talk about it. I don't really think anybody knew the impact that that stuff was going to have on our population i mean if you know it just it's kind of absurd when you look back at it and start to think about it it's like a a terrorist group couldn't have done a better job you know destroying our country uh with the way that we've done with our own our own food system it's really wild it's like hey let's figure out a way to like slowly intoxify everybody so they can't really defend themselves. So they get really big and unhealthy and can't think straight and everything.

It's just like, oh, man, we'll get them so unhealthy that they can't reproduce. That'll be perfect. That's what we'll do. It's like, holy crap, man. That has been happening. That's quite the conspiracy theory. I mean, I can still reproduce. Don't tempt me.

I mean, not with either one of you guys, I don't think. You won't. No offense. You won't. No offense. Good thing Andy doesn't listen. I love babies, so I always tell Andy, I'm like, oh, look at that little. She's like, no.

She's like, get out of here. Go away. away do you want another baby i don't know man i love kids i really do that's maybe not a reason to have another child though borrow somebody else's for five minutes and hand them back when they poop their pants oh man god like here you go babies all right We should get out of here, huh? Sounds good. Take us out, Andrew. What do we got going on? Well, I'll just let you guys know.

You can find me on Instagram at IamAndrewZ. Please make sure you're following the podcast at MarkBell's Power Project Podcast. Oh, shit. Smokey just walked in. I'm going to blow it now. Oh, and a guest. Awesome. At MB Power Project on TikTok,ok twitter and bite um thank you everybody

that's been hitting us up with the reviews on itunes that's that's a huge help yeah um shout out to whoever i read at the end of this podcast on the audio side you guys will hear it um and that's all i got and sema where you at and sema in yang on instagram and youtube and sema yin yang on tiktok and twitter yeah mark i thinkYang on TikTok and Twitter. Yeah, Mark? I think I'm on day 44 of Carnivore 100. I keep losing track. I need to like make a calendar

for it or something. I have to look into my YouTube and then I have to like look at the back end of it to see like what day it is. Well, you start on the first, right? Oh, actually. I started on January 1,

so it's starting to get complicated. But anyway. And then real quick, shout out to markbell.com. You don't know this, but we trained this morning. Oh, my God. Yeah. There you go. I did a bench workout with Mark Bell as he was somewhere else in the world.

Felt like nothing. There you go. It felt easy. I actually did run this morning, but I had a hard time running because the last time I ran, both hammies got really, really super crazy tight. I don't know why. I need to probably work on some of that stretching. You left a hyperbolt in your hamstring. Oh, so I did.

And that actually helped a lot. I used the ball one. I just sat on it last night while I was eating dinner. The dog was freaking out. I was like, what's this vibrator you're sitting on? The dog was a little unsure about what I was like, what's this vibrator you're sitting on? The dog was a little unsure about what I was doing. Anyway, it helped a lot because I don't think I would have been able to run today if I didn't do that. So that helped a ton. Anyway, let's get the hell out of here. I'm

at Mark Smelly Bell on all forms of social media. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength. Catch y'all later. What up, Poopcast? Hope you guys enjoyed this second installment of our conversation with Chris Irvin. Like I said, nobody has broken down the ketogenic diet quite as easily as he did. Makes it really awesome for a simple person like myself to really understand the diet. We wanted to thank everybody that's been rating and reviewing the podcast. We sincerely appreciate that. It does so much for the show. And if you have gotten any value in whether it be our

conversations or any of the conversations with guests, if you guys want to thank us, one of the biggest and best ways to thank us is to just go to iTunes and drop a rating and a review because it does help the show. It puts iTunes on notice that people actually are paying attention to us. I wanted to give a shout out to lee bow 95 lee says great podcast great cast and content quote found this podcast when a recommendation for the power project with dr baker and dr saladino were on i am now going back through and will work on making my way through the entire show history thanks for all the hours of content i can listen to on my two and a half hours of commuting a day thank Thank you so much, Lee. We really, really appreciate that. You just helped the show

just by taking whatever it took, like that two, three minutes of your day to sit down and write that review. It really, really does help the show. If you're listening right now, if you guys want to hear your name and your review read on air, head over to iTunes, drop us a rating, drop us a review, and you could hear your name and your review read on air just like Leebo95. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Peace.