Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 367 - Bounce Back from Unemployment ft. Noah Kagan

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

Noah Kagan is the Chief Sumo at Sumo Group, host of the podcast “Noah Kagan Presents”, founder of the million dollar company, AppSumo, and was the 30th employee at Facebook during its early days as a company. Noah is a business expert, taco connoisseur, and driven to help other young entrepreneurs during and after this pandemic. Noah's IG: https://www.instagram.com/noahkagan/?hl=en Noah's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/okdork Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Support us by visiting our sponsors! ➢Perfect Keto: http://perfectketo.com/wellness/bell Build Your Wellness Basket for up to 35% •Buy 1 item get 10% off •Buy 2 items get 15% off •Buy 3-4 items get 25% off •Buy 5 or more items get 35% off •And FREE shipping Dates: Monday through Wednesday (April 13-15) ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Icon Meals: http://iconmeals.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

Power Project Crew, welcome to today's show. Today is April 7th, or at least that's when this was recorded. Not sure exactly when this drops, but whenever it is, I hope you're having an awesome day. Today we have a really, really cool and fun conversation that we had with our homie Noah Kagan. Just to give you a quick background on who Noah Kagan is, he was one of the first 50 employees that worked at Facebook, and he was also one of the first employees to get fired from Facebook. He was one of the first employees at the company Mint, and he was also one of the first employees to get fired from Facebook.

He was one of the first employees at the company Mint and he was also one of the company first to get fired from Mint. So he has a cool story about having a chip on his shoulder and he even explained how that chip is trying to do better than Mark Zuckerberg. He admits that he's absolutely losing that battle, but that's something that helps him stay motivated. Noah is the chief sumo at the Sumo Group. So AppSumo, really good chance that you probably have heard of that company. He wants kind of, well, actually, he does these challenges all the time on his own podcast, but he once was challenged to make $1,000 in 24 hours by selling jerky.

He explains that whole story on this episode. And what's really cool is we might actually end up using him for some of our marketing for this podcast. So on this episode, we actually got some legit real deal consulting. What you guys will find really, really valuable is, especially if anybody right now that you've, you're a little bit lost or you're kind of looking of ways to find like a side hustle or, uh, you know, unfortunately maybe you might've lost your job. Well, he gives you guys some, uh, some tips, some advice and some ideas on how you can start making money right now. Uh, again, just really, really cool stuff. Uh, just really awesome vibe with this dude. We had a blast talking to him. I'm really looking forward to working with him in the future.

And real quick before I go, if you guys haven't, please make sure you take advantage of markbell.com. Markbell.com is where Mark posts all of his daily workouts. And as you guys know, Super Training Gym is shut down. I'm pretty sure your guys' gym has been shut down unless you own the gym and you're sneaking in there when no one's looking. So right now on markbell.com, there's a bunch of body weight movements, a bunch of slingshot and hip circle movements, a brand new workout every single day. The normal free trial used to be seven days. Mark decided to bump that up to 30 days. So please head over to markbell.com,com register and you'll gain access to the entire website for 30 days for absolutely free. Also, uh, markbell slingshot.com. We are offering you guys 20% off any slingshot and hip circle combo. Again, that's any slingshot, any hip circle,

throw that in your car at checkout. You'll receive 20% off again. That's at markbell slingshot.com and please check out the new uh gangster rap colorways they do they're so fresh i man uh they're amazing check those out check out the kids hip circle so that way you get your kiddos doing movements with you but that's it for me so ladies and gentlemen please enjoy this show with noah keegan andrew you got ripped up for shred again he lost like 20 pounds what are you eating exactly yeah well it actually starts off with no eating, 16-hour fast, but then like one to two chicken meals while I'm here at work. And then by the time I get home, it's go time.

I need something awesome to look forward to. And there's nothing better than Piedmontese flat iron steaks. It has about 90 grams of protein for that whole steak, only 8 grams of fat, which fits perfectly because I'm more of a higher carb-ish, low-fat type of guy. So it fits perfectly with my macros. How do they pack all that protein in there? I would wager there is something better. They're ribeyes. It's like half the fat of a normal ribeye, still juicy, still tender, still just oh so

good. Yeah, you can't go wrong. Yeah. I don't know what sorcery they're pulling over there at Piedmontese Steaks, but you guys got to head over to piedmontese.com. pulling over there at Piedmontese Steaks, but you guys got to head over to piedmontese.com. That's P-I-E-D-M-O-N-T-E-S-E.com at checkout.

Enter promo code POWERPROJECT for 25% off your order. And if your order is $99 or more, you get free two-day shipping. You get any training today? Not yet. I did a little bit of kettlebell stuff, but I wouldn't call it training. Just some snatches and some swings, but it was only for for like five minutes so i'll do something a little bit later i think i want to mess with my jump rope today i haven't touched that jump rope in years so you guys you guys been finding yourselves uh like intermittently exercising more almost yeah i've been finding the same thing. Like I just, there's a kind of a,

a little area that we have that I can do squats on too. And, um, every time I walk past it, I just do like 25 squats. I'm like, I ain't got shit else to do. So I just, you know, hit up a squat. And yesterday I think I did probably like 200 something squats. Whoa. Yeah. I've noticed that there's like a lot less pressure, uh, just all around because I'm like, well shit, the gym's right here.

I don't have to, uh, prepare everything to go to the, you know, to the office and the gym all at once. It just all, you know, just kind of can happen on my own terms.

But with that said, I'm still liking doing it in the morning instead. Going to the gym is, it's a thing, right? Like, uh, and I, But with that said, I'm still been doing it for a really long time and i've learned that the more of that i had to rely on the harder it was to get myself to work out sometimes and um this is this is great just just saying to yourself hey you know what i just feel like moving because i know what the result is i know that it's going to make me feel better and our guest today uh noah keegan who we have on today, I'm excited to talk to him for many reasons, but I just saw him talking the other day about how he was kind of down. And I think everyone's kind of feeling that. It's like a cosmic energy that's out there. Everyone's a little flat. So I don't know how you don't feel a little bit flat everyone's uh you know a little deflated everyone's a little defeated everyone's a little diffused the the goals that you had you know they they were they were in brazilian jiu-jitsu

they were in basketball they were in things that were outside your home you know they're like how many goals do you have that you can literally do right from your house? There's some people that have some goals, um, inside their household with like the relationship. Maybe they have online business, uh, like I do and stuff like that, but still, that's not all your hopes and dreams, right? Like that's just as such a small part of it, such a big part of it is, um, the way that we look, the way that we're able to feel. And on top of that, probably the most important thing are interactions with other people and seeing other people and things like that. So all of that, so much of that, not all of it, it seems like all of it, but so much of that

has been stripped away. And you have a tendency to loaf around and kind of be bummed and kind of feel sorry for yourself. And and man how long is this going to go on for you know and it hasn't been going on for long this has been a really short period of time it's important to understand that you know in a weird way i'm it's gonna be weird to say and it's gonna sound really stupid but i'm i'm a little bit thankful for what's going on right now and i realized this the other day because like uh i've been picking up some just new stuff um i haven't really played music and stuff since i was a kid or since i was like you've been playing those glasses on that's yeah but i used i used to play instruments like a lot like

for years i played the piano and that type of stuff and then i just dropped it when i was a teenager because i thought it wasn't cool and for like the past few years like i bought a guitar like a year ago and i touched it like twice but i never really set up the time to really do it and now that i've picked it up and started doing something creative like i'm really like that really makes i'm excited to get my fingers on that thing you know what i mean um im a young ladies and gentlemen here to steal all your women. No, no, but seriously, you've been working on multiple languages and saving pets and what else you've been going to work on?

No, no languages or anything, but like that, that creative outlet, like I've found is like, it's really satisfying. I feel like that may be an answer for a lot of people, like not just like getting in your home workout and stuff. Cause that feels great, but getting in something really creative that that I think that might be something that helps a lot of people because it really is helping me out right now. Yeah, instrument, guitar. Oh, sweet. Just regular acoustic. And I played it like maybe a few months when I was really young, but I didn't like it. So I switched to something else.

But it's really enjoyable. It really gets my mind going. And it's super easy to learn with all the online stuff. Yeah, I picked one up last year too. And dude, even, you know, obviously no need for a quarantine. But man, I had a blast learning how to play it. I don't remember why I put it down, but like, I've been staring at it since this whole thing did start and wanting to pick it back up. And what's cool is like, yeah, uh, the, the online stuff like YouTube and whatnot, it's so easy to

learn. Cause like, and that's the other thing, like people are learning like incorrectly, they're learning like notes all day long. And I know that sounds like the opposite of what we're supposed to know but it's not as fun as if you go into youtube and you type in how do i play this song and then all of a sudden there's a dude teaching you all the right notes and stuff it's really it's way more fun to do it that way but i'm gonna shut up now because our guest is here hey what's up noah up guys hey what's man? I'm in like a foul mood today. I'll just tell you, I'm foul today. Again?

Okay. Hey, listen, I'm in a foul mood too. You want to know why? Yes, I do, Mark. Because you son of a bitch. You son of a bitch. Have you met my mom? Well, I can only imagine. You got Bo Jackson on your podcast,

and I've been in search of Bo Jackson for many, many years. I've been looking under every rock, every nook, and every cranny of the earth, and I have not been able to catch up with the guy. So I remember seeing you post that, and immediately I texted you. I was like, what happened? How'd you get Bo Jackson? It's amazing.

Let me text him. Let me tell him, Bo, hit Mark back. I just let him know. So let's see what he says. It should be quick. I'm sure he'll get right on it. Let me ask you though. Is it better to never meet your idols?

Is it better to never meet the people that you think you want to meet? Like people meet me and they're like oh god that's disappointing so i don't know i can't be disappointed with that mustache though that mustache looks great uh it's called officer kagan that's it's a it's an officer stash no but i met bo and bo is the man like if you're above 25 bo is like our our legend right for everyone and i met him and beau just but don't give a fuck i mean beau knows right he's just like selling hamburger patties and you know living his life man but both i mean it was i was it was a treasure and i did appreciate meeting him you know who's cool as shit though that uh i got to meet through that

was ken griffey jr dude i know and then i was like ken hey kenny kenny good to see you and he was just he was like more approachable bow is great super nice i appreciate him doing the show but i met kenny and um i don't call him kenny but ken and uh he was just really like oh very like normal to talk to i would imagine maybe he needed maybe he kind of needed some of that. You know, his dad was such a good ball player and stuff like that too, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think what was surprising about Bo is that, you know, when you listen to podcasts or watch documentaries, you're like, what's the secret, right?

What's the, what do they eat? What was the routine? Bo is just, God hooked him up. God was just like, Bo, I got you. And he just naturally was amazing. What's been going on with you, man? Why are you frustrated today? I didn't sleep last night. Oh, no.

Yeah. No, I needed you to spoon me. You're always big spoon when we hang out. And this time – I do like being a little spoon. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, I couldn't sleep. I was reading a great book and I don't know, it's been the first time in a while I just wasn't able to sleep and it's kind of thrown off the whole day. Have you been a little screwed up from quarantine being kind of on lockdown?

I saw you make a post the other day saying you were a little bummed. That was last Monday. No, overall, dude, I've actually been happier than i've been in in three years wow this has probably been some of the happiest that i've been i was talking to my fiance about it in just such a long time and specifically i was just so jacked up because everybody now is equal right like this this whole virus thing doesn't care if you're rich doesn't care if you're a celebrity um and it kind of really highlights what's important in life, like the delivery people, the hospitality people, the teachers, the doctors, not necessarily always the athletes are the ones with the most influence. And so that part makes me feel like it's an equal playing field for for all the underdogs like me out there. all the underdogs like me out there. You just go through some waves though, right? Because you,

you go through this thought process of thinking, Hey, like here's some of the really cool stuff that can happen. I get to be around my family more. I get to be around my loved ones more. And there's a bunch of other stuff I can work on. But then once, once it starts being kind of day by day, you're like, I don't like, fuck, what am I going to do with myself? Yeah. It depends on the day. I mean, there's,? Yeah, it depends on the day. I mean, there's some of the Groundhog Day moments. I think I've done a pretty good job of figuring out how to control my moods pretty well. And I could talk about some things I've been doing and then scheduling like just kind of new activities,

like what new things. So like every night trying to do like a FaceTime with someone new. So like last night we did my fiance's family and my cousin. And I don't know, it's kind of blows my mind. I was like, I didn't know you could Face my cousin and i don't know it's kind of it blows my mind i was like i didn't know you could facetime people and they don't have to see them so far away um or like we're gonna do karaoke i don't know car you know in a tesla they have carpool karaoke so me and my fiance are gonna get in the car in the car tomorrow night probably be a little buzzed and do some singing so i don't know man it's just like i think the

all the creativity that's going on get does get me jacked up and talking to someone like you who you know we've chatted email and text back and forth uh that stuff pumps me up man i love all this stuff that's going on just today um yeah just it's okay to have off days i think i one thing i've as i've gotten older is i need to embrace the off days i think i used to fight him like i'm having an off day let me go be really whiny and complaining about it uh versus just like hey this is part of the the flows of life now one of the reasons I wanted to get you on here is because I saw you immediately were talking about um business and talking about finances and stuff like that I know that's really weighs heavily on a lot of people's minds of like you know what to do with their money money or how to hang in there and stuff like that.

And I've seen some stuff where you talk about, you know, maybe pulling some cash out of the bank, like, can you maybe speak upon, you know, what are some of the reasons why people might want to utilize that strategy? Yeah, so everyone has a different risk aversion, and everyone has a different age. So I'm only going to really share what works for me. I'm pretty risk averse with my money, right? So I run a company, AppSumo.com, and it's a pretty sizable business. And that is where I generate most of my net worth. And so all the other money I make from that, I generally want to have pretty safe.

I don't want to have to worry about it. My friend calls it the sleep test. I want to be able to go to sleep and not have to be thinking, okay, is my money going to be up or down? So generally, the way I like to look at my finances, and I'm happy to share what's worked for me, is I just look at it as your asset allocation. So what that means is if you have 100% of your net worth,

which percentage do you want in each pieces? And the most important thing with that is just decide what you want. And I can share exactly what I do. And then just follow through with your plan. You know how it goes with weightlifting and exercising. You say, what's my goal? What's my plan to get there? And then I'm going to execute on my plan and dial it in. So the way I have my money right now, specifically, I have 4 buckets. So I have kind of four buckets so i have cash equity so like the stock market stuff real estate and then risky um and so right now i'm probably 50 cash and then 25 market 25 real estate and about give or take five five percent on the risky side

so risky is like i invested in a church uh i that that's actually failed. I lost that money. I just invested in a bar, $25,000 and lost that money. I invested in Bitcoin. That's been up and down. But it's kind of stuff I want to learn or experiment with. So more recently, I try to be a little bit more cash heavy because I was like, I don't want to have to worry about this. I'd rather focus on the big wins. And the big wins for me is AppSumo. So I think for everyone else out there, they just have to figure out what's important to them um and the thing that i've really encouraged almost every single person listening i've done it myself i told my fiance uh is number one especially during uncertain times is that you got to just shore up your defense so the number one thing

for you guys that like you know the natty professor and i don't know what this other gentleman's name is my name is andrew and is Andrew. Andrew, what's up, man? What's up, dude? I think the number one thing is I want everyone going on the offense. That's why I've been so jacked up these days about all the things to do. But to go offensively and then actually make more money now than before this happened, you got to make sure that your foundation and your defense is right. So for me, it's like, did I reduce my bills?

Is my cost of living low enough that I have at least 12 months of cash in the bank? And once you have that, then it's like, all right, now how do I go take advantage and create something successful out of this opportunity? Let's say that you're a little bit at the moment, let's say that, or let's say that you were paycheck to paycheck. How would you suggest navigating some of those waters? Because I'm sure it's going to get to be tough, but there's stimulus packages perhaps coming and things like that. I don't believe in the stimulus package. And what I mean, but I don't believe in that is that like I've, we've applied for it and everyone should get their check and everyone should do something, but I don't want to be dependent on

someone else, hopefully sending me a check someday and sitting on my ass waiting around, which I think a lot of people are doing, Mark. I think a lot of people are saying, oh, I guess someone's, is someone going to come take care of me. And one of my favorite saying is, no one's coming to save you. No one is coming to save you. And I have to look at myself in the mirror and tell myself that even with this ugly stash that I have. So if you're living paycheck to paycheck, let's just go over a few different things. So number one, reduce all your costs. So if you're living paycheck to paycheck, how can you even go lower? Can you go move in with your parents? I lived with my parents for three years out of college.

I'd have no shame going back to that. Can you cut any bills? Can you share? Like one of the simple ones even. Do all you guys have Netflix? Right. Yeah. So that's $15 a month.

But you're like, no. No, no, no, no. Hold on, Mark. Hold on. You're talking to your Jewish friend here. Bro, come on. Come on. No, but so what people don't do is they're not aggressive enough

on the defense. And once you get that down, then we'll start talking about some of the opportunities. So number one, share your Netflix account. Go on the family plan. Share your cell phone account. Share your Amazon Prime account. Share your Hulu account or cut some of those services. Reduce your cell phone bills. Reduce your rent. So you need to reduce everything as much as possible so that you can feel comfortable and not have to sweat it. So that's what people aren't doing enough or negotiate your rates. Like that's one thing I emailed a lot of my providers that I use in our company. And I was like, yo, I need to have this price. Otherwise I have to cancel. And almost all of them were able to do that. So again, I think more people can cut a little bit lower and you don't

want to overreact, but I would say cut that up, cut as much as possible. Uh, and then the second thing is the offensive side. So if you're living paycheck to paycheck, I told someone this a week ago, the first thing I would do is get a job at McDonald's. And I think what happens now is a lot of people have egos. Uh, a friend of mine is making 30 bucks an hour and he's like, I can't believe I'm only making $30 an hour now. And I said, man, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. And the fact is, is that as much as you're not making what you think you're worth, you're getting off the tracks. And a lot of people are sitting at the train station waiting for a train to pick them up when they just need to get the momentum. So number one, go drive for Amazon,

go drive for Instacart, go drive for whoever you can or get a job at McDonald's. Those people are still hiring. Zoom, the thing that we're recording through, they are hiring 1,000 people this week. Wow. People are hiring. And some people are sitting around waiting to be hired and other people are going out and doing it. So that's number one. Go get some basic ass job just to get going.

If you're willing to pay, just get back out there. Get your momentum. It builds up your confidence. Two other things that I would go do immediately to start if I had nothing right now, if my whole thing went away. Number one, go help any of these offline businesses go online. Just call any of these offline businesses, the stores that are all closed out there. Like Mark, you're in Fresno. I'm in Bodega Bay right now, but yeah. Oh, you're in Bodega Bay. Yeah.

By Sacramento. Northern California. Yeah. Oh, nice, man. I used to go to Delta with my dad as a kid. That was awesome. Yeah, man. But there's so many of these offline businesses that are closed, right? Go call them up, help them out. Number two, the next thing I would do is just go teach people something. So go document your stuff, go on takelessons.com. You could teach someone something there. Go on Udemy, Skillshare, YouTube. The thing that I've noticed is that a lot of people have lost confidence, right? You just kind of like, fuck, man. And they blame the virus. They're like the virus screwed

me. Have you guys heard your friends say that shit? Yep. No, they didn't. The virus did nothing to you. It's the president. It's the government. It's the president. It's Trump did this. Noah did that. My boss, my boss did this. Now, what I believe personally is that this is the biggest time that entrepreneurs are going to be created, the real ones. Because now it's like, all right, well, shit, my back's up to the wall. Now I have freedom. Now I have no one telling me what to do. And I think most people are going to say, well, now is the chance I can actually create the life I want to be living. Most companies that are successful like Zoom, they came out of the 2009 crash. Uber, Airbnb, Stripe, AppSumo, my company, the company I helped start. So a lot of innovation comes out of limitation. So again, coming back to it,

go do some bitch ass job. Go help offline, go online, go teach some things. I think there's just like an unbelievable amount of money out there right now. Just people are more sensitive on how they spend it. Maybe I'm missing it. But what was your reason for saying going, just going and doing a normal job like working at McDonald's or doing that? What was the reasoning behind going and doing that? So if you're, and let me be specific, if you're paycheck to paycheck, just get paid. Gotcha. You need a guaranteed paid. So a lot of people say well you know this is the great time to start a blog and then maybe make some social media posts and then maybe be an

influencer but mark how long have you been at this game yeah a long time yeah over a decade over a decade right and now you have you've built something so that takes time so my point though is that if my you know if I have to eat, one, if you're at McDonald's, you get the food. I don't really eat too much McDonald's. But my point though is that if you're in survival mode, just do whatever it takes so you can get to, you get your basics founded,

your basics taken care of so that you can go and start creating social media. So you can go and start blogging. So you can go and start creating an e-commerce product or a supplement product. But to do that for me personally, without any like of my monthly costs taken care of is just, I'm just not like that. That's not how I like to operate. You've been an entrepreneur for a long time. Could you share with people how your days are different and or how your days are

similar versus, you know, what was going on, you know, a couple weeks ago versus what's going on right now. Yeah. I'm also, I do want to make money for someone like me. Are you guys working for Mark? Do you guys work on this on the podcast? Pretty much. Yep.

So how did you guys end up getting the job with Mark? Oh man, my story is pretty dope. I originally a photographer for Mark and Super Training. So I met Mark at a seminar that he was hosting at the previous Super Training location. And at the time I was just doing freelance work, right? I did have the 40 hours plus a week job, but every time I was outside of that, I was working on my photography and I walked up to Mark hoping to find another revenue stream in powerl lifters. And I was just like, Hey, do power lifters ever need photos done? Cause I didn't know anything about power lifters, but I was like, bodybuilders. I know when they

get close to a show, they need their photos taken. Like maybe when power lifters get close to a show, they need their photos taken. Of course, I didn't know that that's actually probably when they look the worst cause they're all gross and fat. So when I asked Mark, he was just like, ah, no, powerlifters don't need photos, but I need a photographer. And so I handed him my card, got the job, um, you know, fast forward about two years and I see an opportunity with the podcast open up and same thing kind of cornered Mark. And I'm like, Hey, you need a producer and I'm going to produce the show now. And he's like, great. I don't need to find another person to hire.

It's yours. So that's how I got here. And Natty Professor? Yeah. So like a few years ago, I don't know if it was like four years ago, I started training at Super Training. At that point, I was already working with people online. And that was just like, well, that was my job i worked with uh athletes and stuff online and then um i saw that they were going to trade shows and stuff so i was just like yo let me just come and work with

you guys at trade shows i didn't ask to get paid or anything i was just like let me just come out and i think the first one i drove to san jose to go help out there and that was that was the start of that and then i think it was last year, he just asked me if I wanted to do a few episodes on the podcast. And I was like, damn, okay, let's do it. And yeah, now I'm working on the podcast with these dudes. So let's go. I'll come back to your original question. But Mark, the reason I asked these guys was that it takes time to build a relationship. But one of the things is that if you have some type of income, and actually, I was pulling up a list of things

like 15 ways to make money immediately because I was like, how could people make money? And so I'll go over more specifics if people need more inspiration. But one of the things that sounds like your gentleman that you guys work with and this guy like Brandon or Mitchell on the Sumo team, they came and offered something for free.

And they came and just said, hey, I like taking photos. So Brandon, who now has a full-time job doing video for us, he saw me. Yeah. Brandon met me at the Arnold Bodybuilding Classic in Ohio. And he's like, Hey, are you Noah from AppSumo? And I was like, yeah. He's like, Hey, I'd love to take photos of you for free. Which when you ask another guy that, it's pretty strange. He's like, I want you to take your shirt off, man. Take photos of you. No. And so he actually came and took headshots of me. And then he took headshots of everyone in our company. And then he said, Hey, I know you do podcasts or some of this blog. You want to

make some YouTube videos? I'll do it for free. And then he did that. And I liked it. So I was like, Oh, here's some money. And then I started hiring him monthly for my videos. And then we hired him full time for AppSumo. And so again, I think one thing is that if you don't have any money, I wouldn't do the free route immediately. I would just get some money coming in from whatever it is you can, and then start going out to someone you already like and offer them something specific to start building the relationship. And then it can transition just like you two guys very successfully to a full-time gig. A few things, Mark. Do you mind if I give a few more business ideas for people to do to make

money immediately? Absolutely. Here's ones I'm super excited about. Grab all your friends' extra crap from their houses and sell it on Amazon or Facebook Marketplace. Cost-cutting consultant. So go to any of your homies or business friends, anybody who is spending money, and say, hey, I'm going to look through all of your bills

and whatever I help you save money on, you pay me 5% off. That one's really good. I just think there's a bunch of people who don't even want to do it and it's just like hey i'll do it for you and i'll negotiate everything uh especially with you guys you have a lot of bodybuilders rent out gym equipment i go by all these gyms now and all the equipment's just stuck there you could easily be renting that out uh you know 50 bucks a week and drop it off in people's houses. So rent out my home gym. Instacart Plus.

A lot of people are doing deliveries now. But I'm sure in all of your areas... And this is temporary. But why don't you go and find me anything I want? I just want butter. I don't want to have to worry about it. I'll pay a little premium. So be like a super deliverer.

My fiance wants better home lounge clothes. Because we're all working in lounging at home more. So she thinks there's an opportunity around lounge closing. Anyway, there's, there's literally, this is just unlimited stuff that, uh, that you could be doing now. But I'd say number one is do something you're going to guarantee to make money and then start exploring working for free or some of the ideas that I've suggested. Um, you mentioned a little earlier about like scheduling, uh, stuff. Um, is that, is that similar or is that a lot different than before the coronavirus hit? It's a little bit more flexible now.

I generally like to theme my days personally. And I think what's interesting, and this is the way I think about it for everyone out there. Mark, I'd like to hear your answer. What makes a day great for you? That's actually a great question. I don't know if I've ever really thought about it that way, but basically every single day I want to lift, learn, laugh. That's pretty simple.

Yeah, those things. Yeah. Yeah, and so I think what I like to do is think, and I think if people are a little, are intentional about it saying like, all right, what would make, I think what people have to do is just think about the last time you had a great day. And so for me, today's Tuesday, I would say yesterday was pretty damn great. I had a great day. And so then it's like, well, what is it for me that makes it a great day? And so I use an app called like Strides app. It's free. There's no, no sell, um, strides. So I'll show it to you. And so in my strides app, I just have a checklist of everything that I like doing each day that makes me feel great.

So I like learning. So I read a book. So I have to read some book, walking 5,000 steps, playing chess, taking my collagen, doing pushups. I'm trying to do 100,000 pushups this year, drink water, and then read my goals for the year. And so the only thing I would actually start adding is doing a conversation like this with someone new or sharing something with people. I've realized that having a conversation and learning and sharing it gets me jazzed like i was i was pretty much just angry i wrote this really angry email to someone and i was just angry all day and now hanging out with you guys i'm like fuck yeah like it just gets me all jacked up certainly a lot a lot more fun than an instagram post right yeah man i think you know for each person it's a different thing like for

some people it might be writing each day like if if the morning is writing, um, but I think it's kind of just really being intentional about it. And then how do you schedule your days, uh, to have more of the stuff that's good. Like one thing I've done is in my, I'm a big scheduler. I love scheduling. Like I plan my week every Sunday. So I already have all my stuff in my, what I want to do. And then I put it in my calendar. Why do you do that have you been have you been unsuccessful in the past not having a plan or uh is this something you gravitated towards when you're young i think dude do you remember palm pilots yeah i was like about that and i don't know i had like the trejo 600 and the palm pilot uh i don't know man i think there's you know what was what's the thing in weightlifting?

It's like there's this thing in training and working out, right? Training, you're going somewhere and working out, you're just kind of working out. Yeah. And so I think the same thing applies. Like my word of the year is congruency. And so I think what congruency means, well, what it means to me is that if in all my aspects of life, my relationship, my health, my company, my travel, I just like being very clear and goal oriented. It's like, what am I trying to accomplish? What's the list of things I need to do to get there? And then how do I just start scheduling that out so I can accomplish it?

I think a lot of other people, I don't know, you could end up at the destination. You can end up in Mexico if you just drive south. But personally, I like to say, all right, well, where am I going in Mexico? And what's the best route to get there? So for me, it's like having a yearly goal, breaking that into kind of monthly or weekly segments, and then being intentional throughout the week to make that happen. I think the one thing that's changed over this period is being a little bit more flexible with my week.

So instead of the... Like right now, I didn't plan coronavirus in my yearly goal. with my week. So instead of the, like right now I didn't plan coronavirus in my, in my yearly goal. Like one thing I did that was actually pretty interesting was called a fantasy list. So I, I just made like, I was, I was feeling sad for myself in January. And so I made this fantasy 2020. I said, what's all the craziest shit that I could do this year that would make this year insane. And so I just wrote that list out and I looked at it on Monday and I was like, man, I'm actually moving towards some of those things. I can actually just start having that be my reality.

Some of it, it's going to be harder if like, I want to go to Oktoberfest. That might get canceled. But you know, the other stuff is still doable. How about this? Because you were mentioning all the different things that people can do right now. And I believe that there's a ton. But I found that it's hard for people to build up the drive to learn something new, especially when they don't have experience with it. And especially as an adult, as a kid, you're just forced to do a lot of things. So when you become an adult, like you might've been lifting since you were a kid. So you're naturally gonna gravitate towards working out or you may have been programming when you were a teenager or something, cause your dad put you in it.

And when you're an adult, you're really good at programming. But trying to pick up that as an adult is very difficult for a lot of people, even though they can still do it. So how do you, what is your advice to help get people past that barrier of being at level one? Yeah, I'll give a few different examples that have helped me and just from my own experience. So I think what you actually said, and your name is, your name is not Natty.

It's Nsema. It's Nsema. Oh, wow. Great name. Thank you. He really is a professor though, of being natural. So I think there's a few different ways of approaching i think what you actually said is the right answer and what you said is just go back to the things you enjoyed doing as a kid that's it so for me i used to love bike riding so now i do bike riding and i like playing chess a lot it got me girls were always like yeah you're a chess nerd i like that that turns me on i was like i'm gonna play chess well i have a fiance so it's not that but i was like let me go try chess again. And so I think there's two different ways. I think number one, just go back and explore

things that you used to like as a kid and start there. I think number two, and I'll give a few examples is that anything we do, there's a book by Robert Greene called Mastery. And it's not the Robert Greene, it's the second guy that's Robert Greene. And so one of the things that he talks about that stuck with me is plateaus. So I think number one, if you're enjoying something, you're going to start it. So I think anyone has started things and enjoyed video games, different hobbies. But something for me, it's like Hebrew or working out. Working out is more your forte mark and your audience. So let's start with the working out example. You know, I started working out about 10 years ago. Was it 10 years ago? I got dumped

on a bike ride. And my girlfriend's like, you're hungover and you're overweight. This is on the worst fest bike ride in Austin. She dumped me on it. And then the next day I woke up and I was like, you know what? I am overweight. And I was hungover and I was a slob. And so I started working with my buddy. Wait a second. Wait a second. You fell on your, you fell on your bike and she dumped you? No, no, I didn't fall, but I was just like, I was on my bike. We were on the bike ride and we broke up while bike riding. Oh God. And then she told you you're fat. Yeah. During it, she's like, you're fat, you're hungover, which is all. And the next morning I was like, you know what? There's truth. There's truth in that stuff. And so that started my health journey. So I started there where I basically kind of went anorexic. I went running. And then I started lifting weights.

and any hobby. But I think the most important thing is how do you sustain? That to me is ultimately the most important thing. Anyone can go and try to copy mark for a week, but to copy mark for 10 years, that's a lot of dedication. And so there's different components of it. So how do you sustain the type of learning you want to do? So for me, I have to change things up based on my interests. So for health, it was like, I did running. Then I did weights. And then now based on my goals, it's biking and boxing are kind of my two main things and a little bit of squash because my intentions have changed. So I want to stay healthy, but I have to change how I'm doing it. So in regards to going back and doing stuff that you like to do as a kid, something that you're going to probably end up being passionate about, at what point do you start looking to try

to monetize it? Should money ever be a driving factor in any in any of that why do you ask the jewish guy always about money i really do i think my superpower is making money um that's awesome to have shit well not not when the aliens come when the aliens and the virus is here i'm like trying to like barter i'm like hey do you want a mask? I got masks. And actually, I think it's a blessing and a curse because I think when you're focused on the money, you don't make as much of it as if you're just focused on something that you're interested in. And so what I mean by that is, for example, you put out a podcast or you put out a show. One, it's easy to put it out once. It's hard to put it out a hundred times. Anyone can start a podcast and not anyone can do it for 10 years. Second thing is like when you start putting out a podcast or a YouTube video or social media thing and the numbers aren't there,

it's, you start really, am I, then for me, this is literally what happened last weekend. I was like, well, am I doing it for these numbers or am I doing it because I'm genuinely excited to be sharing this stuff? And so I try to just go back to like, I'm doing it because I'm trying to share this stuff. And then that helps me kind of stay centered versus my ego of like, I have to be making money doing this stuff. So I think your question though specifically is like, do you monetize your passion? Or should you be monetizing your hobbies? Yeah, just like at what point is that the driving factor?

Like, or is that like kind of like a trap almost i don't think it's a trap i really think it's it's person dependent because on one hand if you love something and you can make money doing it like isn't that the dream like my my purpose in life to some extent is helping people find their dream work and or finding people who are doing their dream work and promoting them. If you look at all of our businesses, it's about promoting makers and promoting people that are making awesome shit. So, you know, like my buddy Adam is a health coach. He runs my body tutor, you know, he loves it every day. He wakes up and he's like, I'm going to help people do this.

And I've seen the flip side of it where I met this girl at a party in New York two years ago, and she was an ice cream maker. And I was like, oh, what a cool job. You eat ice cream all day? And she's like, I haven't eaten ice cream in two years. And so I think things evolve. So I think every person has to explore for themselves. I personally want to spend my days making money doing the things I really enjoy with people I enjoy. And so for me, it's promoting products and promoting people. I think everyone should be that way, personally. So how do you go

about monetizing it? I mean, there's a lot of different ways. I think the one main thing is that it has to have demand. This is something I was talking about with a friend yesterday. If you love being a trainer, okay, but how do you actually make sure there's a demand for your services? And that's the hard part. We can talk about that or other things. Yeah. How do you recommend people go about even just finding their passion? Oof. That's a tough one.

I feel like people know. Do you guys know your passions? Yeah. I think people definitely have things they're interested in, but they might think that they are uninteresting to other people. And that could be a mistake that they have. Maybe they just don't have enough confidence because maybe they like playing video games and eating junk food, but they don't really understand how that could actually be a thing that could turn into passion. Because maybe you could

be a baker or maybe you could, you know, help with video game production, or maybe you could just review video games online. And there's a lot of services that could happen out of anything basically yeah should people explore their passion yeah i mean i think if you have anything you're interested in for me the way that i've always been about it is personally if there's something i'm interested in from a business perspective, I try to basically say, can I make $100 in 48 hours? And so the reason I like the $100 in 48 hour challenge is that a lot of people who are saying, I want to have this type of, let's say a training business, or I want to do a supplement business, or I want to do an e-commerce product. The problem is, is that it's much harder. It might not be harder than you think, but you should at least see if you can get

customers. I generally recommend at least three within 48 hours to make a hundred bucks. Hey, let's do it right now. I know you do it sometimes on calls, right? Let's do it. What do you want to try to find out? So go ahead and give people a challenge right now that they could do while they're listening to this.

You know, hit up three people. You know, I heard you talk about the other day. Yeah. So the way that I've, I'm going to, well, what I'd like to see people do is two things. Number one, just text someone right now. A lot of people, if they're interested in starting a business, what they do is like, Oh, let me post somewhere passively on Reddit, or I'll post a comment and see if someone actually, maybe who says yes to me. It's like

putting your, a wanted sign for a girlfriend on a, you know, on a pole. Like that just doesn't work. You probably have to go to tinder yeah on the creepy stuff i don't know kind of no and so this is something we're talking about demand so if you're looking for dating you'd probably go on a dating app because there's people raising their hand saying i want dating and so the same thing goes with business in that in the three you know i try to get three customers 48 hours 100 because there's limitations help. And so what I recommend doing is calling or texting. A few years ago, I started a jerky business. And I couldn't use social media. I couldn't use any of my network. And so all I did was call people. And I found out I called people who worked in an

office. And I said, Hey, do you guys buy snacks for your office? Then I said, Yes, we do. I said, Hey, do you mind? Do you want to buy jerky? I'm doing a subscription. This is years ago. This is four years ago. And I was able to sell about $ mind, do you want to buy jerky? I'm doing a subscription. This is years, this is, I don't know, this is four years ago. And I was able to sell about $4,000 worth of jerky in one day. But the point is that you have to be a little bit more active on it. And the challenge, another thing I'll give people a challenge to go do, Mark, have you heard of my coffee challenge? I don't think so, no.

This one is where, so we started a course, and I'm not selling the course, it's not even available anymore. But we helped about 5,000 people start or fail businesses. And when I started the course, I just kind of shared exactly how we started AppSumo and other businesses that we've started. And

what shocked me though is that it was about fear. Fear was the thing that people were scared of more than actually starting the business. They were afraid of rejection. They were afraid... tell you i went to um i remember the first time i went to like gold's gym venice and i went to the mecca in new york you know the the mecca right yeah the beth francis's gym i was so scared i was like oh they're all gonna look at me everyone's gonna judge my form no one gave a

shit these people were like get the fuck out of my way i remember i saw lou farigna i was like lou hey lou he's like fuck you man he did he literally did because i was like and i normally i'm not a photo with like people but i was like lou you might be he's like no i was like okay um but the reality is with starting the businesses and making money, what business is at the essence of a day is an ask, right? You are asking for something in exchange of money as a form of value. And so the coffee challenge is basically getting over that fear and building up that muscle of asking for things.

So coffee challenge is basically just next time you buy anything, you ask for 10% off. And the reality that people sort of... The reason people have resonated with it so much is they do these asks, they get rejected, and they're like, oh, it's not so bad. And that's what I found out that I still have to do stuff like that to kind of keep my muscle sharp and ask for things. Because when I sell stuff, anything I'm selling, like I was just selling some guy on text message. I don't really think of it as selling, right? I think of it as educating. And I think it might me and my, you know, the way I've always looked at it is like, I feel like I have, it's a disservice if I think something is better for someone and I don't offer

it to them. Yeah. It's also because like, you're literally solving a problem for them. Like, like in your mind, I'm assuming when you're selling something, you know that there's an issue that you're trying to help them work through and what you have is going to solve that for them. So it is your job to get that in their hands or get that service to them or help them in some fashion. And I think when Andrew is saying, how do you monetize it? I mean, it feels like you got to figure out some type of problem

that you can help those people solve. Yeah, I mean, what, the first thing that, Asima, that you started me thinking about is if I was listening to the show and I was like, well, Noah's got an audience and Mark's pretty famous or super famous and good looking and all these other great things. And I'm, you know, I'm listening at home and I've been listening to a lot of shows and I've had this idea, but I've got no audience and I've got no money. Right. So what do I do? Because they're, you know, they're saying, well, it's easy for Noah. It's easy for Mark. Like we started with it. Right. Like when you're born as a Jewish person, they just give you all the money. You know, it doesn't happen that way. It really, it doesn't happen that way. It's because we have

these Jewish mothers that force us to do things. Uh, and that is why we, we are the way we are, but no. So I think specifically with that person, um, if you have an idea for Mark, like your slingshot. So I think there's a few different ways. If you spent years building up an audience doing free content that's valuable, then creating a product is easier. If you don't have something like that. So number one, do you have a network of people you can sell your service or product to? I think too many times when people are starting this business is like someone out there who doesn't have an audience. They're like, how do I sell to people that are mothers, even though maybe you're a guy that's a teenager? And so the first thing is just take advantage of your own network. slingshot, go to the gym, go to your workout session, go to your CrossFit, go to your power lifting and say, hey guys, here's like a drawing of something I'm creating. It's $20. Are any of you want to buy it? I'll probably have it ready in about a month. Guess what? That's all it takes, right? Like Tesla sold Model 3, 500,000 of them, $300 each, over a billion dollars,

two years before they delivered the car, right? And so I think with services and all this stuff, but the thing is that take advantage of your network, not take advantage, but help them first. And if they don't want it, that's the best part because now you can find something they do want. And for me, we try a lot of different stuff in our business over 10 years at our company, and most of it's failed. And really at the end of the day, only really one,

which is the first thing we started, has been our big winner. You mentioned earlier about you had 5,000 people succeed and maybe 5,000 people fail or something like that. And you brushed past it. But I think, you know, failing quickly is an important thing. So that must be part of the message that you're sharing as well. Because when people are asking something, it's like, okay, well, you might fail with that, but you go ahead and you just, you try it again. And it's not nearly as bad as you thought it was. It's not, it's not an actual danger. It's just something you're kind of scared of, right? Yeah. I think there's something interesting from the people that you, that you guys would label successful. Cause I think success is too much of an external label and it really needs

to be about what's internal. But I was thinking of the people you guys have observed being quote unquote successful, what's the characteristics of these people? It almost always boils back down to exactly what you said. They've followed their interests, especially when I think about the ones that are like the most successful, they really, and there's sometimes when somebody along the way, they start to be interested in business and then they're able to capitalize on many different facets of business. And so they might not be interested in owning a bar or restaurant, but they might know some other key players that are,

and then they're able to like, you know, really build up their finances that way. And then somebody might look at their portfolio and say, oh my God, I could never be like that guy because he's so brilliant in so many different things. But really it's just, it usually starts out with an interest, you know, somewhere. When I think about, you know, Quest Nutrition and what they were able to do and selling the company for a billion dollars and stuff like that, I think back to the original reason on why they did it.

They wanted to create a bar that just wasn't going to to the original reason on why they did it, they wanted to create a bar that just wasn't going to have the same impact on your blood sugar levels. And they did that, and that was their interest. And they just dove all into that, and they turned it into pretty much the first ever billion-dollar supplement company that I'm aware of. So I think that the two things you kind of highlighted, Mark, that I think about a lot for myself is being very clear about what you want. I think at the end of the day, if you're clear what you want, getting it is actually really easy if you really want it. So number one, I think people need to spend more time journaling, walking, quiet, I don't know, showering, whatever it is, levitating, I don't care. But being super clear about what you want.

Like I've had a lot of times that I'm not as clear or it's insincere. Like, oh, I want to help a million people. And then I would think about it at night. I'm like, I don't give a shit about a million people. I don't care. I don't like, so as an example, my email list for okdork.com, my personal blog. Normally in the past, I'd be like, I want to get 100,000 subscribers to join my mailing list. And I'm like, I don't care if I help 100,000 people. All I care about is every month,

I want to help more people than I helped the last month. That's actually, that matters to me. And so that's what I focus on. It's just important to have a goal that's maybe obtainable. Like, let's say for right now, you currently the most you ever made is 30 K in a year. Maybe your goal for now is to get, is to try to double that at some point. Maybe that's your, your dream, right? And your dreams can change, right? You can change them as you go. Yeah. Money, money changes, man. Like once you, like I have enough money that I don't have to work and I don't mean that as a brag or anything like that but it's i think that's actually where everyone i think from the beginning towards the end you should work in that capacity like imagine that you have a million dollars in your bank account and do the work that you would

do if you had a million in your bank and so that's the stuff that'll actually get you the million not the stuff where you're like i'm gonna be a day trader because i saw these fucking people on reddit doing it and losing all their money And so I think the two things to come back to what we're saying, I'll say three parts of it is one, be super clear on what you want. Number two, the people who I admire are persistent over a long period of time. And I'll tell you, man, I still there's a day I want to do a variety show. So I did one last week and I got rejected from a few people that are like friends of mine who are kind of known. And they said, no, they didn't want to be on it and then I was like oh shit this is like a test to see if I really want this or not that's how and I didn't take it as this is rejection at first I

did but I said no this is really just a test do you really want to do this I was like I want to do it so then I just persisted and then the last thing and this is I think almost as as important as having the goal being persistent is that I think some people get psyched out on a big unattainable thing. They're like, I need all of it. Or I've talked to these people that have businesses and they're like, my business is only making six figures. And I'm like, that's awesome. And so I think the biggest thing for a lot of these people is give yourself the $100 challenge and just start with one customer. Or if you want to be an influencer, you want to be Mark or bigger than Mark, which physically is not possible. But from a social point of view,

if you want to be bigger than Mark, start with just helping one person. I think a lot of people... I was talking to a friend of mine who's a trainer for NBA teams. And I'm like, dude, don't worry about your website. Don't worry about anything. Just start emailing one person a week or text one person a day. And that's how you can build up your community. And I think with a business, just get one customer. Don't sweat, how am I going to get to thousands? It starts somewhere. And I think most people just don't get off the tracks. And there's going to be probably one listener who's going to hear that today and go do something about it. They're going to text a friend. They're going to go offer a service. They're going to go do something for free. They're going to go apply for the job, whatever that is. You were one of the early people to Facebook, one of the first 30 people through the door, I believe, as an employee. What do you think is the single most important thing that Facebook learned from having you as an employee? Fuck, don't hire Neil Kagan. thing that facebook learned from having you as an employee fuck don't hire no that's interesting um you know i think what's it yeah what did they learn i mean i think what was interesting about

different styles of companies i think the two takeaways is that i think i brought a lot of opinions that they ended up doing that have now become big so like now everyone has status updates so like you post your status and that was something that I came up with. It's hard to say innovation. People are like, I invented this. I'm like, dude, shit's been around for hundreds of years. You didn't do shit. People have been posting news.

It's called news. I think I brought a level of... I like change all the time, personally. And so I really... They probably figured out, okay, we don't want people like that around us. I think the second part that I would say was beneficial from people listening, because it doesn't matter about me, it matters about the listeners at the end of the day,

you know, your audience, is that I think the success for me of being a part of Facebook, it's two components. One, are you in the geography online or in physical geography to be successful? So are you in Mark's community? Are you helping Mark in some way? Are you interacting with winners so that you can be a winner? So I was in the Bay Area, born and bred. So I was around... I've met Steve Jobs. I was around all these different kinds of things because I was in the geo. So either online geo, like in the Facebook groups, in Mark's comments, or physically in the geo. And the second component, I would say is that in my brief period of time of working at Facebook is probably where I grew the most professionally. Because I was around people literally better than

me, like tremendously better than me. And I don't think all of us really push ourselves to that point anymore. And so those would probably be some of the biggest takeaways for myself, especially going back to my 20s, I would definitely try to be geographically somewhere that's crazier like that. And then be around people that are crazy. What do you think bred that culture to have everybody work that hard? Is it just because it was like, everything was new. Everyone just didn't mind, you know, being there probably late nights and stuff like that. No, I don't, I don't mean it in a mean way or to say you're wrong. I think what Mark did was that he had a vision. So there's two components that Mark did that I think were really smart.

One, he set this vision that was so fucking like appealing. Like he had a lot of conviction and he said, we are changing the fucking world. Every single person on this planet will be using Facebook. And imagine recruiting someone to your company and being like, every single person in the world is going to be connected through our software. Like that is a fucking vision. Like the guy was very impressive about stating that. And then I think excitement. Oh man, it was just like,

of course I want to change that. Because all of us want meaning in our lives. Like all of you guys do, I do. And that is a big purpose, right? That I think a lot of people could get behind. And then I think the second component that, you know, we started talking about it earlier is that, and this is something I just want to even remind people,

make things for yourself first. So if you're building a product, build something that you're excited to share with others because you love it. So I built SendFox. It's email marketing for content creators. And I just built it because I was tired of paying subscriptions to MailChimp

or these other services. So I was like, all right, I'll just build something for myself with our team. And so we did. And then it's so much easier to go out to other people. And so I think with, well, not I think, so with Facebook, every single one of us was using it to hook up with people, was using it to communicate with friends, was using it as a way of sharing photos. And it was very exciting to build and work on a tool that was like,

oh, I don't like how this functions. All right, change that. And that's so much more exciting to be a part of than working in an industry that you don't really care about. Let me ask you this, because you alluded to it earlier in the conversation when you were talking about your emotions or something. I think you mentioned you have different ways of controlling the way you were feeling. And we were talking about it, I think, when it was coming. Mark was mentioning the corona, or you said you weren't feeling good last week and you wanted to talk about that. I was curious as to what you meant exactly. Yeah. That was like a softball. Thank you for throwing that one up there for me.

I had a nightmare two days ago where I woke up and in my nightmare, I was shaking people's hands and I was like, oh fuck, dude, they got Corona. Why are you shaking their hand, man? Don't touch their hand. And I woke up and I was like, oh God. And you kind of turn on your phone and the stock market's down or you turn on your phone and this person died or you turn on your phone and it's a lot. Each day is a roller coaster, whether you're running a business or if you have a job and you don't have your job secured or you lost a contract or things have to get pulled back. And so I think the two things that... It's a lot of anxiety. This is more now than ever.

And honestly, the chaos though, I love this chaos. I love this chaos because there's opportunity in the chaos. And so I think the two ways that I've really felt in control, which is ultimately what all of us want. We want to just feel control of our emotions and of things happening because some of this now, this is the most wild epidemic, pandemic that we've experienced in our lifetime. And so the two things for me that have changed dramatically, that I just have more energy and I'm so excited about everything going on because number one, I made plans. So make plans, right? So we have a plan in our company. So the two major things are plans,

one in our company and then one for my personal money. And then the second thing is I do is I kind of check in my mood. So we talked about structuring your day so you're doing maximum things. So let me just show you. This actually has been a super help.

I'll talk about the company one afterwards because I think this one's a little bit more relevant to I guess everyone there. I heard you talk about that a little bit too where you even ask people like uh how they rate their mood yeah yeah where are you at today you a five are you a ten are you three all right so i'm gonna do mine now but let me just give an example so today it's four seven and then i basically just check in during the day so yesterday well i'll just do right now so today it's four seven it's the. I would say I'm at a four. So I was sleepy. I took a bunch of coffee, but having this conversation, sharing these things with people makes me excited.

So what I'm going to do after, and then what you do is if you're not at a five, then you say, well, what are you going to do to get to a five? And so then for me today is like, I'm going to go on a bike ride after this. And then I'm going to record a few other things that I want to record so I can finish off my daily checklist. I have a daily checklist. You got to pull it back. There you go.

Yeah. Pull it back. Pull it forward. Pull it sideways. There we go. There we go. Yeah. So I just have a daily checklist.

And when I finish my daily checklist and I get to go for a bike ride, I think that'll get me to a five. So I think that's one on the mood. So if you're not feeling amazing, just take a second to figure out why not and what you can do immediately about it. And the second thing is that in your business or in your company or in your job, put together a plan.

So I put together my personal finance plan and I talked to you guys about exactly what I did in our company. We did a thing called the 30-5. And so the 30-5 plan, I don't know if you heard me talk about this, Mark. Nope, I haven't. If it's boring or you guys want to shut up about it,

I can shut up too. No, no, no, I'd love for you to talk about it. All right. No, sometimes people are talking, I'm like, shut up. So we did this about four weeks ago. And the 30-5 plan is, we don't know what's going to happen with coronavirus. We had our company goal for the year. And we had our plans for the year. But we said,

we don't know what's going to happen with coronavirus. We think that there's going to be a pullback in spending across the board. Unless you're selling oxygen or water, everyone's going to be tighter. I call it puckering up with their spending. And so the 30-5 plan that we put into place is that we assume that our revenue is going to immediately drop by 30%. And our net income, our profit is only going to be 5%. And so then the question is, what changes do we have to make to be sustainable with a 30% reduction in revenue? You're fired. You're fired. You're fired. I mean, it's not funny when you're on the other side of that, though. Correct. And I got fired by Facebook.

I would say it's a draw, but I think I got fired at Mint. I would say I quit, but they would say I fired. And to be on that side, I think one of the things now is that this is a chance for people to take control of their jobs. So if you've got let go, if you're uncertain about your job, now is the best time to start taking that power back. And so we put that plan in place for our company to say, all right, well, what changes do we have to make? So even if this stuff does drop, which it hasn't yet, we already have a plan that we're ready to take, that we took action on. And so it was like cutting our software bills. We paused some contractors. We reduced our ad spending. We canceled bonuses. We canceled lunches. And so we had to make some hard decisions so that if the economy does go great,

we're in a better position. If it goes bad, we're proactive. And I think a lot of people putting their heads in the sand and waiting to see how it just plays out. And I'd rather take control on all my aspects. And so when this is all said and done, because it will end, I want to be in a better place. What do you think it's going to look like when it does kind of come to an end? Let's say we fast forward two, three months from now and things are like normal-ish from a financial economic standpoint. What do you think will be the impact of it? So I'll tell you, Mark, this is probably where I spend about 40% of my mind is that exact question. And anyone who tells you that they know is full of shit.

Because if they did, I would tell them to bet all the money on whatever the fuck they know and go become a billionaire. I think the thing that I like to do is, what am I certain of? So what am I certain of? Is that I think certainly people are going to be a little bit more cautious about spending for 6 to 12 months minimum. I'm certain of that more people and more companies are going to be working from home than ever before. I'm certain of more people are going to be saying, screw having an office or as much of an office space as a big office. So you can see our office in the background. We don't need as much office anymore.

Joe, I said hello. Yes. Oh, which Joe? The our office in the background. Um, we don't need as much office anymore. And then I think that's good. I said, hello. Uh, yes. Oh, which Joe? Oh, the guy right there.

Yeah. In the blue shirt. I think that's Colin. Yeah. Wrong guy. Okay. Um, I'm certain to letting people go. I mean,

it's a, it's a, we can talk about that. Cause I've definitely, I've been on both sides and it's, it's never a good thing. It ends up being a great thing. Cause it, you know, we can talk about that. i've definitely i've been on both sides and it's it's never a good thing it ends up being a great thing because it you know we can talk about that so uh i think more people than ever are going to start creating online businesses i think there's actually going

to be a boom because especially now you're like man this retail shit like guess what the internet doesn't fucking close your retail shop closes our website is open 24 7 where absuma.com never closes and so i think the question then is where is an opportunity for you to be successful given those future so some of the different i try to put together a list of like okay given that reality what are they going to be the jobs of the future right because that's kind of like that then says well what can you do moving forward and i think there's some that we're all kind of like okay okay, we see it, right? Like virtual training. People are like, okay, I guess I don't have to go to the gym now.

So some of it is a little bit more obvious. I think the things that I'm kind of excited about or some of the ones I've seen is like, I think this gym home equipment rental stuff is really interesting. I think there's definitely a future businesses around that. So your question was, what do I think the future is? I think there's going to be a tighter spending.

I think people are going to be pulling back. I think spending is just moving from non-essentials to essentials, meaning less socks, more home entertainment, less luxury items necessarily for some time being, and more health and fitness. And more things are going to be moved towards the home. So I think even real estate, people are probably going to build more home offices in homes moving forward versus how they are now. It's like every house or every building has home office. So I think there's just going to be based on those things, then you have to say, well, what am I excited to do? And then that's, you know, go and start that for the future. So like a few things I've already seen,

I've seen a virtual graduation coordinator, right. So if you're graduating high school, you want to have a graduation. Now this person sets up all the software and organizes it so your high school can have a graduation. I heard about that kind of job. People are selling Zoom backgrounds. I love that one. It's stupid as shit, but it's great. All this stuff comes out of limitation all this ingenuity and creativity which i love seeing um i think home office setup i think there's a there's a lot of businesses about how do you create more make it home offices easier like i just bought like a movable standing desk and then i've been exploring like i got this this this there's review sites that are available oh just go out yeah i think my mic just changed because I messed up.

What, did you punch the screen? No, I didn't punch the screen just yet. I think there's an opportunity for online promoters. Oh, my video just went out. So, in terms of... Yeah, your face is gone. So, I think an online promoter... Nice trick, bro.

That looked good. Oh, do you know why? Because it's doing the other camera. So I guess your point about what does the future look like, for me, a lot of that question just comes back to like, what am I certain of now? What do I believe will be true in the future? And then how do I start planting those seeds today?

So as the future comes, I'm riding the wave. And I was telling some of this a few days ago, Mark, I don't think I'm the smartest or blah, blah, blah, or the best looking, unless you ask my mom, she would say I am. But what I think I've been fortunate with is that I've chosen things that are tidal waves. And all I've done is I've had my little Noah's Ark in the tidal wave. So no matter what happens, I'm probably going to do pretty damn well. And so if you think about it, there's been a lot of these trends, right? So Airbnb shared economy stuff. Shopify was really big. Now, I think there's a huge opportunity on

digital knowledge. So if you have an expertise in Google Spreadsheets, you could sell these Google Spreadsheets on AppSumo or Gumroad. If you have training plans, go on Gumroad. And you could say, hey, for $5, I've got training programs. So I think there's going to be a huge boom around that stuff. So either create the tools to help people do that, or just start doing it yourself. So I don't know what the timeframe of everything was, but you were fired from Facebook.

That turned out to be a little company uh you were you mutually left mint which was another small company how can you give advice for people that maybe did lose their job during this time to uh to bounce back all right we're back on camera there you go boom yeah it's tough it's tough if you lose your job you know you didn't lose your job you know where it is it's just not you don't have it anymore i'm sorry i thought that was funnier in my head um to me it's funny it's like you know it's like i lost my job i'm like no i i know exactly where it is uh or you know one thing i hate when people say they're starving i'm like you're literally not starving people there's certain people starving you're hungry and maybe you're hangry um i think the first thing if

you lose your job or you got fired is just to sulk just let it sulk take some alcohol take some pills not too many and just have a good sulkulk. Just let it marinate for a bit. That's what I like to do. If you're not feeling it, sulk it out for just a day. My friend says this to me, and I really appreciate it. He's like, dude, when you're feeling sad, don't try to hide it. Just let it be. If you think about a lot of the most successful people on earth,

depending on how you measure it, some people, it might be a teacher who's the most successful to you so i don't mean i'm just saying from what i admire from what i admire um because everyone has to determine their own measurement of success a lot of them have had chips on their shoulder you know steve jobs was adopted right a lot of these other people have had different types of issues like That's a more obvious one. But for me, with the Facebook thing, it has driven me for 10 years to fuck Mark over. He's still winning, by the way. He's still completely dominating over me.

But one of my favorite stories about this is this Chinese fable. It's about a horse. Have you guys heard me talk about this shit? No. It's this chinese fable and it's about a horse have you guys heard me talk about this shit no no it's a chinese fable and the short of it i heard this from andy dunn of bonobos and he told it to me he says there's a chinese story and basically this guy goes to his dad he says dad everyone in our town is going to war but my horse is sick and i can't go to war and i feel bad i this sucks and the dad goes you know it sounds like a curse but maybe it's a blessing so all the other homies in the town go to war and they all get they all die and

he goes to dad he goes ah dad it's so awesome like everyone died and i'm alive because my horse was sick this is so cool and the dad says sounds like a blessing but maybe it's a curse and so then what happens is these rebels come to town they're like who's in charge and he was the only guy left so they attack him and then he's in the hospital and he's dead it's a curse and dad says what do you think the dad says maybe it's a blessing maybe it's a blessing. Maybe it's a blessing. Yeah. And so I made up that story. I just made that up. But the point of the story is that in all these curses in our life, it's a blessing. And it's really just how we want to look at it. And so I think you take a day or two to kind of sulk it out. I think that the most important thing for me, especially if you get let go, is confidence. Because you don't feel worthy. You don't feel worthy. And you don't feel in control. Because this other mofo, guy or girl,

took away, and at least for me with Facebook, they took away my identity. They took away my self-worth. And so you have to find ways to build your self-worth back up. And for me, it was just helping one person at a time and so it was like i went it was just like whatever you can do if it's talking to your cousin if it's my mom is like my biggest fan and so is it talking to my mom you can call her i guess if you guys want to call my mom um you know i i just went and did work i got back to work because eventually you know life does go on and you do forget things time fixes a lot of, but you just got to do whatever it is to build up your confidence, teach someone new, go get a job, whatever it is you can do. And whatever it is you can do for yourself to build

that confidence up and eventually let that chip motivate, you know, let your hate motivate, man. Like I play a lot of chess these days and I am angry. Like you might, you think these people have murdered my family by the way I talk to them. And I use that as a way of like I've hired coaches now to help me with chess. I'm reading books on it. And I've used this hate to now hopefully destroy the families of these chess opponents. I'm not joking. We've had this podcast for several years now.

We've done hundreds of them. And we were just, you know, while we're in the quarantine, we've done hundreds of them. And, uh, we were just, you know, what, while we're in the quarantine, we actually been, you know, doubling down. We've been doing more of them because as you pointed out, like, this is a lot of fun for us. This is a point of interest. It keeps us happy. I look forward to, uh, doing these all the time. And, um, we were just discussing, um, you know, the possibilities of having like a website for it because we don't have a website for it. We don't, we don't, uh, typically try to bother with trying to capture emails.

We do have advertising on the show, but I figured you're the perfect guy to ask. And maybe we can get a little like on air consulting right here. Sure. Um, we were thinking about having a website and, you know, driving people to the website, trying to get some email captures, maybe run contests do some giveaways in addition to that provide more value to people with uh maybe uh like a newsletter um give people workout information diet advice uh things of that nature what what are some of your thoughts on that and how would you maybe suggest you already know quite a you already know a good amount about the rest of the business in terms of slingshot and stuff

like that. So what are some of your thoughts there? Well, so you already have a newsletter and you already have a site and you already, you put out a lot of YouTube, right? But then you've just started more of the podcast. Well, the podcast has been going on for several years, but we don't have an official like site for the actual podcast. We have markbellslingshot.com. We also have another site called markbell.com, going on for several years, but we don't have an official like site for the actual podcast. We have markbellslingshot.com. We also have another site called markbell.com, which just has more information about me. And then it also has a lot of training advice and training

information. It's also a pay site. We made it free more recently just because of everything that's going on with home workouts and stuff like that. But yeah, we were trying to figure out like, should the podcast have its own like website? We're not trying to really necessarily use the website as a hub to drive people to the podcast. We're trying to utilize the podcast to drive people to the website for more stuff because they listen to us all the time.

They hear us. We have guests on the show quite a bit, but we also just do with the three of us. And we talk a lot about nutrition training, stuff like that. Okay. So the way I always do all of my marketing, the way we've recommended it and did it at Mint, learned it at Facebook, AppSumo, all the companies we're part of is what's the goal. And that is just, I talked about my yearly stuff. Like what's my, what's my target? What am I trying to accomplish? So I guess that's where I

would ask you first before you even get in. Because I think sometimes people are like, well, have a website and do this. And it's like, I had a, and this is not a brag, but we had a payments company and we were doing,

in our first year, we did $30 million in processing. And we took about 10% of that. We didn't have a website. So I'm not saying that everyone doesn't need a website. But I'm saying you have to think about what's my goal and does this help me accomplish my goal? And is that actually the

best thing or is there an opportunity cost? Is there something better? What I've observed with podcasts with my audience, like I have my show Noah Kagan Presents, podcast does not really grow an audience. It is just there for your most loyal audience is what I've observed in my experience. I've tried to grow it a lot of different ways over the past three years. And ultimately, I've just said, I've really enjoyed doing this. And I love sharing my stories and other people's stories around marketing. And so I focus on that. And the goal is just to grow an audience to have more, a little bit more each month, but I just enjoy it. And so that is my focus. But maybe for you guys, let's take a step back and maybe what's the goal for the business? And then how does potentially the podcast fit in there or

not? Right. Obviously, you know, there's kind of multiple layers to it. You know, growing the podcast is fantastic. Making more money, you know, just to be totally 100% transparent, because I think, you know, having more finances, more resources just allows us to do more things and trying to, you know, raise awareness of the podcast and things like that is super important. But I totally understand your point too, because, you know, we do have, when you have a, when you try to branch out is sometimes when you start getting your content starts steering towards all these new people that you have. And it's not, you know, it's not hitting the meat and potatoes of your original audience. But I would say that another reason is just, as I mentioned earlier, is the connection to the three of us.

When we have conversations that are deep about you know fasting or about particular ways that we might do things particular ways that we might train i would love for there to be a place for people to go to so they can look into that a little bit more it's not like it's going to be necessarily like these 12-week programs all laid out although maybe there's potential for that um but just more information like where they can see it, where they can physically see it rather than just hear it. Yeah, absolutely. I would say it would be cool to have a place where people can just consume the podcast 24-7. I post a ton of stuff on social media and, of course, across iTunes, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, all over the place. But there's no one center hub for like, let's just say we're just talking for me to be like,

oh, hey, go to like markbellspowerproject.com and everything we just talked about, you'll find there. Like there's no like one center place. So for me, it's definitely to try to get people to consume more of what we do. Okay. So I'm going to, you know know it's like a podcast like interview show when they say let's unpack that right that's what i fucking hate when people say that so so i'm trying to say it as often as possible so um i think the way i i'd like to look at

audiences specifically and i can share kind of how our approach is specifically um but i either think for from your guys' perspective, either A, are you trying to grow your revenue? Or B, are you trying to grow the amount of people that you have attention? Yeah, I would say we're trying to get more followers. We're trying to get more people to listen. Okay.

So personally, the way I always focus on that is like how many are listening today? And then how many are you trying to have listen by the end of the year? Or at least even what we do is we have a yearly goal and we break it down monthly. So every month, we call it a GMO in our business. So let's take SendFox, for instance, because that's probably the thing that can help you the most. We have a goal to make a million dollars with the business.

And if it doesn't make a million, if it's not a seven-figure thing, we're going to cancel it. Uh-oh. Meaning, because we only have so much time to be alive. And so if we can do something, I'd rather do at least a seven or eight figure thing than a six or five. And if it's not that, let's go try something else out. And so we take that yearly goal and we say, well, that's $83,000 each month. And so then each month we say, well, what are the major things we can do to get that? Or what do we think will help us lead to that in the next month?

And that helps us prioritize better. And the one-month sprints, for me, I could even go faster, but it's fast enough where we can see a lot of change in results. So in terms of your audience, how would you measure your audience today? And I can tell you how we measure it, but how do you measure it? And then do you have an idea of what you want it to be? For me personally, I just look at the download numbers and I can compare them from like

towards the end of last year to when basically at the end of the end of the year, Mark was like, Hey, this is your podcast. You now need to control it a little bit more. So that's what I did. And then since then we've been able to double the,

the amount of downloads and I want to continue like progressing maybe not as fast obviously because that's really hard to keep up but i do have the monthly number downloads per month that i do want to hit we're not there yet but then eventually what's that what is it i want to hit 500 000 per month hell's yeah yeah. We're right there. Let me challenge you just one second on that. Yeah. What's the total listen time? Because what I would actually challenge you on a little bit,

and I'm not challenging in a negative sense, is that downloads just mean anyone has the app, right? But listen time is you can influence, right? And listen time is actually not only downloading it, is it actually affecting them? So the reason I suggest something like that is actually not only downloading it, it's actually affecting them. So the reason I suggest something like that is actually better measurement. It's like doing a workout and it's like my body's not changing because you're maybe just doing the same workout. What we look at for our email list, a lot of people, if they're trying to grow an email list,

we built sendfox.com for free. It's a free newsletter tool for weekly newsletters. What we realize is that everyone's talking about their email list size or download numbers. But what we actually realized is that it's your active audience, the true people that matter the most, the ones that open, the ones that are like, oh, Mark's show's down. I got to listen to this right away. And so what we look at for OKDork and for what we're encouraging most people to do is for your email list, at least, who are the people in the past three months that have opened or clicked on an email? And everyone else, who cares? If they're not part of that active audience group, I don't care about them.

And so in terms of the podcast thing, what I've observed in my show for three years is that it was very hard to control downloads. It was very hard to control. You'll put out a bomb episode. I'm sure you guys have done it. We're like, dude, this conversation is gold. Just send us the Grammy.

And you're like, why did the downloads go lower and you're like you know oh blame a sema or what was your name remind me your name sorry sema yeah sema it's no in sema and then jason andrew andrew sorry andrew it's like why downloads low and so i think what's the coronavirus that's why it's well it's not see i don't like blaming anyone. That's part of it. And so I think the big thing with business and working out and all of it is what can you actually control? So you can control how many episodes you put out, right? But how do you control that? Make sure that you download and listen to them. That's where it gets a little harder. So I like focusing on metrics and either a metric I can control or activities I can control. So are you guys emailing out every show?

Like, how are you guys doing that? Just social media right now. Yeah. Yeah, so social media, Mark, you're married. You have kids? Yep. Do you pay to talk to your wife or do you just talk to her straight up?

Man, it feels like I got to pay her. I think I've been paying for everything this whole time. So women are the bosses man women are always in charge and i love them think if we weren't with i could do a whole episode about that so um the reason i'm so bullish on email and i think what i would recommend for you to at least start andrew not aka not jason yeah um is start a weekly email around your content because what happens with social media is that facebook instagram twitter who else is left tiktok tiktok whatever the kids are doing um they are incentivized to get you to pay to talk to your customers so like i was looking at you know my youtube channel i have 50 000 subs every video

i put out maybe gets a thousand two 2000 minimum views just for my homies. These people that no one watched, maybe I'll get like 15 or five on a good one or maybe I won't. So what happened to the rest of those 50,000 I've worked years to get that I've earned? YouTube wants me to pay for them. Same with Twitter. I have this many tweets. You put it out, you get 0.1%. Facebook, same thing. Instagram, same thing. And so email, for me, having an email and developing an email list sounds like it'd

be less headache and super simple. Why don't we do it? I mean, I'll help you guys with SendFox. Like we'll just get started there. SendFox.com slash Mark's belly or Mark Bell or whatever you want. And then just tell people to join that. And then the one thing I would say with email, I'd say if anyone wants to start a business out there, email is probably one of the best ways to teach and build an audience.

The two things for me where I've focused a lot this year is Facebook groups. So build a Facebook group because people are already there. So just say, hey, bring your friends. That's been a big one for us. And then a weekly email. So right now, and I mentioned this earlier, Mark, I think attention is worth more than money. As you guys have noticed, how do I

grow my attention? Attention is the most valuable currency there is. And the government can't print more of it. So attention, I think what I've observed is quality and consistency. So how good is your stuff? And hopefully bring on guests like me who don't suck. I hope I'm doing pretty great and I'm entertaining and weird enough that people are like, ah, I'll keep listening to this guy. And then secondly, I do think there is something about consistency. So is it every week you're doing something that people are like, oh, it's Wednesday, it's Mark. And I've heard different debates about it. Personally, I just think if you're top of mind, then there's a more likely people are going to choose you because

for example, I stopped doing my podcast for a year. I was getting like 25, 30,000 downloads an episode. And the thing that's funny about it is that it wasn't 100,000, which was my goal per episode. And so I stopped doing it completely. Wow. And now I get maybe 7 to 10,000. And the reality that was interesting for me, that was a great lesson was that two, two, two key pieces I learned from myself. One, when you stop doing it, people are going to fill that with something else. If you're an influencer or content creator, they're going to find somewhere else to fill that time. And the second thing is that everything eventually gets boring. Doing an episode over and over where you're going to talk about fitness. Hey, intermittent fasting.

Yeah. Oh, keto. Yeah. Hey, I found a new workout tool. Got it. And so I think you have to mix things up and figure out how to sustain things. So how do you sustain doing the show? Because if you have fun with it and you guys are enjoying it, the audience will as well. And so those are the things I've observed. But I don't think you need an email list just yet. I do wonder though, I went to markbell.com and I went to Mark's Bell Slingshot. Do you guys have like email collects at all? And then how often are you guys communicating with your audience via email? These are all things I am not aware of. Yeah. These are all things I'm not, I'm not, uh, I'm not in charge of it, especially at the moment. So we, we probably have some figuring to do.

We could probably start talking to you again and figure that stuff out. We could just talk right now about it. I mean, what I've observed from successful e-commerce businesses, we've helped a ton of them, is that the best ones, like the tier one people, are emailing every week. And it doesn't have to be a sale.

A lot of them are like, well, I don't want to send out my slingshot again. I don't want to send out this thing again. Then don't. A lot of times what actually, this has been the stupidest thing that has worked so well is that they just email out their top Instagram instagram post of the week because guess what it's just like a catalog

it's a visual like my girlfriend or fiance she's always all day like oh look pretty picture it's already written for you it's already done and you can just see what's popular so a lot of times like my uh youtube or my podcast i'll just tweet a bunch of things see which one got the most reactions oh and now i'll make something longer about that so for e-commerce stores take your most popular YouTube or my podcast, I'll just tweet a bunch of things, see which one got the most reactions. Oh, and now I'll make something longer about that. So for eCommerce stores, take your most popular Instagram, send it out, include a link to your store, and you'll be surprised how many sales you get from that. We do a monthly newsletter at AppSumo. And the newsletter is like our favorite Netflix, updates and random things. It's an interesting newsletter. I legit newsletter. Like I actually, I legit enjoy getting it. Even if I didn't,

wasn't a part of the company, that newsletter generates five figures for us. And we don't ask for, there's no selling it. There's not like, go buy a discount, go do this, but it keeps you top of mind,

especially if it's interesting. What was that voice again? Go buy something. What was that? It was pretty good. It was pretty good. Oh, I do.

I can do a lot of, I have a South, South African. It can do a Joe book one. Sit in a little bed yeah mate see my south african it goes into a british australian so that would have been weird if we started off with that i need to work on it watch listen to our south african people yeah i eat biltong you know biltong like where the fuck's he from biltong biltong's pretty good mate it's good stuff i don't think it's as good as normal beef jerky but it's good it's not it's not but it is interesting it's gonna be all you know the food we have a site called hall drop by the way um it's basically app sumo for products for physical

products so you guys should put your slingshot on it well i'll add it if you don't basically just like it's a way to if you have any e-commerce store you put your products for free and it's kind of like a we showcase the coolest products There's no cost or anything. We just thought it's a good way to promote people's products. And it's interesting to see what's popular. But BuildTongue is something and all these new like chicken jerky, chicken strips. That is a wild stuff out there, man. I love it. But anyway, so with you guys, what I'd recommend is your customers want to hear from you. They don't need to be sold all the time. So I would communicate weekly, like, here's a product and here's a story. Here's a podcast and here's a video.

So I would just be consistent. I feel like we can give our audience a lot more without breaking our backs. I feel like it wouldn't be that hard. There's products. There's things I use. There's snacks and jerkiesies and like there's all kinds of stuff that i use that andrew uses and sema uses that makes our lives a little easier and again it's not necessarily a sale we're not trying to like sell you on it we're trying to

inform you about it and not everything that we do needs to be monetized we don't always need to worry about whether we're getting a kickback from any of that stuff. It would just be great to share more of that. Cause I know people just have the amount of questions people have in regards to all this stuff is, is pretty, pretty substantial. Well, if you think about like Tim Ferriss or some of the people that are pretty known now, you wonder like, why is that person so known? and i've to me i think i found the answer they have gotten people actual results in their life and so if you are sharing like a podcast tip or a productivity tip or a workout tip and someone does it and they're like holy shit i learned that from mark and his gang i love mark bell or if they've learned a marketing tip for me they're

like all right noah doesn't know everything but he seems to know a little bit about this marketing stuff and so i think if you're sharing anything out there that's consistent and people are like getting real results from it uh you're going to stay around for a long time people are going to be digging your stuff sick but yeah i definitely think if you guys want what we did i literally was on a meeting right before this one we just have a content calendar so here let me show you what we have so we go over it every single week. I'm just going to take a quick screenshot.

So I'll send you guys a screenshot. But basically, every Wednesday, we send an email called Noah's Notes. Every Thursday is our podcast day. And then we basically just have a calendar that we go over every single week on Tuesday. And then we have KPIs. Actually, I'll show this to you guys.

I think you guys actually might find it interesting. DK. So here is how we look at our KPIs. We have our main goal. So you guys should have a goal for your audience. It could be a number. It could be a progress goal. Like, hey, I just want to have a few more people each month.

It could be like, hey, we just want to put out a certain amount of episodes. That could be the goal too. It doesn't just have to be... the audience one is man it's a treadmill it's a fucking dangerous treadmill where you're like i need more like if my youtube video like i put out one today about zoom tips and it was at 200 views like an hour ago and i was like i should be more famous than this and i was like did i put this out for that or did i put it out because i thought it was damn great and i was like like, yo, it's fucking great. And if 200 listen to it and they benefit, I was like, yo, I'm happy with that because I was really happy to put it out.

And so that's the part where I think people do need to be cautious about. They want to be an influencer or they're trying to build an audience is that I really have to remind myself, just come back to one at a time. Just come back to be like, dude, people have bought your product and done better workouts and had better home gyms. And we just kind of get caught to be like, dude, people have bought your product and done better workouts and had better home gyms. And we just kind of get caught sometimes in like, well, how much more can I have that finally fulfills that need? I know, I know that's me a lot of the time. Oh yeah. It's never ending. Oh, you've a mark, but yeah, here I'll send you. So our goal for our stuff on our personal brand is like just monthly progress. So a little bit more each month.

And then we do look at some of these KPIs. I don't know if you guys look at this stuff, um, but I'll just send you here and send you guys what it looks like. So you can see our dashboard. But basically each week we talk, we track like our Google traffic, our Facebook group size, YouTube subscribers,

and our active audience on email. And the active audience in email is the main thing that, uh, we focus on. So I just sent you guys some screenshots uh you personally uh you personally get bogged down by that sometimes does that uh i mean you just mentioned that sometimes the views can kind of waver your emotions you sometimes get bummed out by you know the numbers like like i personally don't even look at them that's why like i'm unaware of whether we capture emails at the moment or not because i just i've learned that i i looked at i looked at our numbers one time i i looked at something

business related during a workout one time and it like threw me out of my game and i'm like you know what i'm never looking at that shit again and i didn't even mean like not during a workout i just meant like i'm never gonna look at it ever again period so I don't I don't view any of that stuff because I think that it will make me uh it'll make me mad I never made it for that reason I never made it for some of these other reasons and so I'm like fuck it I made it because it was fun for me and because it helped me through an injury and so so I'm just going to leave it at that. I think you need someone to pay attention to it though. Absolutely.

At the end of the day, like if you, if you find for yourself, um, I find I work extremely well with someone who's kind of the organizer and doer of the details. So like I want to put together a YouTube video and I, I do it. I'm, I like, dude, more sometimes the numbers are bigger. It does make me feel better, but I also have to remind myself bigger or worse. Like, did I do the thing I wanted to do? And I literally, I spent all Sunday talking to my fiance about that. Um, but I do well having someone who's paying attention to the active growth number. Um, as well that I do care that that number grows, but he's the one making sure YouTube gets out. He's making sure social sure social media happens um and he's going to be focusing on that i think what

what i've noticed in business in the i guess 20-ish years i'm almost 40 mark jesus damn um it's not you look good for 40 man seriously you look like you're in your 20s it doesn't bald guys got to stick together bald is the new hair um i i like that i like that uh damn it i where's i go with this so uh i'm sorry yeah i mean yeah anyways you got to do the parts that you like and then find other people that can complement the the other parts of it oh so i was gonna say one thing i think people make mistakes on they're like man, man, I'm awesome at sales, but I suck at programming. I'm going to go learn how to program. And I think in my 20s, I thought that was the right approach. But in my 30s now, I think the best approach is don't do, unless you're broke, and just go do

whatever bitch job you have to take for a while. But you should only do the thing you're great at. And everything else, you should say fuck no to. And what I've realized by that is that just find your greatness and do it. So for me, my greatness is marketing and doing live speeches and talking with people like you and hanging out, talking about marketing, starting businesses. I wouldn't say... I like some of the productivity, but marketing and starting businesses is like my jam. And so I've really tried to stay focused on that. And someone like David, I work with this guy, David Kelly. He loves product management and he loves being nice to everyone. He's nice to everybody. I'm like, David, be angry today. He's like, oh, I just can't do it. And I love it because I'm that guy then. And so that is where

he's great. And he compliments me on the product management side where maybe I come up a little bit with the marketing and like, hey, we need to have profit loss stuff that we need to be responsible for. My business partner, Chad, is like, he doesn't have emotions. So we compliment, and I know I say it's a joke, but Chad is like, he's really like flat and he's strict, not strict, but he's very stable

and he's very calculated and that balances my kind of impulsiveness. And so I think everyone out there, like with Mark, Mark's like, yo, I fucking work out, I figure out the shit and I don't want to worry about the other parts. And so you got to go out and find the people that want to be excellent at these other parts. And I think too many people are spending time trying to improve their weaknesses than being like, yo, that's my weakness. Like my strength is not strategy. I'm a doer. I think afterwards. And so I have this guy, Andrew Chen, who's like this Bay Area wizard,

child prodigy guy. And he just tells me what to do. And I say no, because I think I'm smarter than him. And then a month later, I do what he says. And then it was better than my idea. He allows you to think that it's your own idea, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's been awesome. He basically, every time we meet once a month, except recently, he always just says the same thing. Why aren't you 10 times bigger? How could you 10 times more doing what you're doing? Which part's working? How do you 10 times doing the part that's working more?

And so that's kind of been his message over the past more or less 10 years of doing that, Sumo. He's just dumping lots of anxiety on us. No, I don't actually think it's anxiety. I think you have to understand what you really want. And so Andrew's like, grow more. And I'm like, Andrew, you know, there's that old – everyone's heard this story now with the Mexican guy at the fishing. You guys heard the Mexican guy fishing?

This white guy – it's always the white guy that fucks it up. But this white guy comes up to him and he's like, hey, man, you love to fish. Why don't we do the fishing charters and take fishing boats? And then he's like, well, so what happens then? So, you know, we can make a bunch of money and he's like, well, then I can just come back and fish, which is what I want to do now. And so I think the point of the story that I've always, everyone loves that story, but we all get greedy. And so I think you have to just, it's not greedy as bad, but it's just understanding what you really want and then

being very clear on that and going after that. And I think that's where we all get lost at times. I know I've made less money and been more unhappy going after the money and the numbers versus being like i do my podcast now because i get to hang out with people like you i go on shows like this because i get fucking i'm jazzed dude like you know do you guys say it was a highlight of my day sick and so that's where like okay no just go back and schedule more of these try to have one of these a day all right man hey this is the part of the show where you leave and then the three of us, we talk shit about you. Fuck yeah. What are you guys going to say?

Do I have to leave for real? Before you do leave, I am curious about this because I've noticed on the content you put out, you put out a lot of like tools that people can use to increase their productivity. Yeah. Like learn new things. So what are some apps or, you know, sites like Skillshare that you think people can utilize to, especially at this time, become more productive at home? Cause a lot of people have problems scheduling things and learn new things. What are some general things you think you should just have this on your phone to help you out? All right. Number one thing everyone should go do first off

is learn how to type faster. First off, if you're not typing a hundred words per minute, you're being less productive during your day. And so the sites, I'll tell you a few of the sites that I recommend. One is key K E Y B R.com. The second type they're all free is ratatype R A T A T Y P E.com. If you're doing the, like the, the chicken finger typing with one finger, you're very unproductive. Because you're literally, your brain can think at, I think,

a few hundred words per minute. But if you're only typing at 20, 40, 50, 60, you're not actually outputting maximum things. So it doesn't matter. Think of it as a funnel. Everyone knows your body's made in the kitchen for the most part. You're reading shit.

It doesn't matter. We can have a discussion about that another time. But the point being is that you want to start at the top in the kitchen for the most part like you're reading shit doesn't matter you know we can have a discussion about that another time but point being is that you want to start at the top of the funnel so keyboard so look at your keys number two look at your tools that you're using like are you on an old iphone look that's super cool you're a hipster all that stuff but if you're using that tool every day it's worth it to pay for a more faster version of a computer or a phone if that's available next up the thing on the computer so if you notice i'm starting at the high level it's always the high level stuff because like i'll tell you some of the more detailed like apps and things that i use to organize that people should

probably check out the the boring less sexy one is the high level stuff because that's going to trickle down next up is your your mouse speed so you guys all have computers with you yeah is your go to your system preferences right now go to your trackpad and if you look at my trackpad it's always on tracking speed the fastest if i could even make that faster i would but your mouse it's like i go in your mouth it's like super damn slow i'm like hurry up dog so make your tracking speed here i'll send you my screenshot if your tracking speed is not at super fast, you're not being maximum productive. You want it to be at the fastest? The fastest.

Bro, what about productivity? This is the, look, you're asking which apps. If you're dragging your slow ass mouse to the app, it ain't fucking going to happen. So what about missed clicks though? Doesn't that account for some of the productivity? Clicking fine. You're going to be so, Mark,

when you guys have like 10 million downloads next month you're like yo that noah guy it's because of his track speed that fucking track speed all right next up next up next time you guys you guys all use gmail yes okay you guys use it so next time you go to gmail hit shift question mark shift question mark what that does is it's going to show you the keyboard shortcuts if you don't have it on go into settings you the keyboard shortcuts. If you don't have it on, go into settings, turn on keyboard shortcuts. I promise you, you're not using all the keyboard shortcuts in Gmail because you guys spend at least an hour to two hours a day in your email. So if you're not doing, let me give you some of the keywords in Gmail to use.

If you're not using C in Gmail, you're missing out. If you're not using G and then I in Gmail, you're missing out. If you're not using J and K, missing out. If you're not using exclamation mark and hashtag, you're missing out. If you're not using J and K, missing out. If you're not using exclamation mark and hashtag, you're missing out. If you're not using some Y in there, missing out. So my point being there, though, there's even more of that.

If you're not using L and M a little bit, this is the thing that I just, if you can take away anything from the productivity stuff, go to where you spend the most time and optimize around that. I think a lot of people are like what's the most biggest how do i use a tool it's like look i do most of my my like to do's on my my notepad and on this three by five note card that's how i get most of my stuff done there's not

some magic ass thing and that part's actually not as important i think is the where you're spending maximum time so gmail computer, that's actually the biggest stuff. I think in terms of apps, the ones that I like get super jazzed on, Strides, basically Strides is a free tool so that you can make a checklist of things you want to do every day. So like every day,

like every three days I try to stretch. That's in my list. Another tool I've got, you guys are all fitness buffs. I use PushFit. You guys use this one? No, I've never seen it. So PushFit, I'm trying to you guys are all fitness buffs. I use PushFit. You guys use this one? No, I've never seen it. So PushFit, I'm trying to do 100,000 push-ups.

So every day I have to do push-ups and it sucks. How do you track your push-ups? So there's two ways. You can actually, I don't, it's not amazing, but you hit start right here and then you put it underneath your chest and then it counts it when you do this. It's good enough. It's dec amazing, but you hit start right here, and then you put it underneath your chest, and then it counts it when you do this. It's good enough.

It's decently accurate. I actually end up just doing it manual. But what I like about this is that I have my goal, so I know how many push-ups I have to do each day, and this kind of keeps me accountable, and it sends me reminders like, hey, you haven't done your push-ups today. Come do your push-ups.

I did 100,000 push-ups this morning i with one-handed surprised uh that's kind of like the big stuff i would say on my you know i use there's everyone's got different to-do apps so i won't even mention that um i think the other thing that's not as helpful you're a book guy what about books what about helpful books period not not even even necessarily with optimizing tech, but maybe something in the last six months or so? Yeah. So I'll give you some – I don't know. Sometimes I read these business books and I'm like, fuck.

It's like, oh, here's how to do another sale. It just bores the fuck out of me. Here, I'm looking at my list. The best books I've read on business and in life. I'm pulling up my list. So if you go to goodreads.com my username uh you got a huge list of books right uh i read i don't know i use audible and then i read i basically have three different books i have a physical book on my kitchen table so i have i just finished one called the second mountain

i have a book i'm reading on my kindle so that puts me to sleep which the one i'm reading that's really good now it's called the lost airman. If you want to see all the books I read in all my ratings, it's goodreads.com slash Noah Kagan. All right, here's some of my favorite books, business and life, that I think would be the most helpful or interesting people. Lost Airman was a really fun read. I'm finishing that now. It's about this guy found out about his grandfather. Crazy story. In terms of business books, let me find stuff that I thought was interesting.

Lately, I've been into a lot of death books, which really makes me hard to go to sleep. Like American Predators, this crazy story about this serial killer. It makes me scared to be asleep at night. Maybe that's why I'm staying up so late. Sounds like you mastered adhd pretty well uh i think i think i can get obsessive and then i burn out kind of flame out on things i'd say probably one of my favorite books in the past year is called a secret race

so i like to i don't know if one thing i've always thought mark is that if you're reading the book that everyone else is reading how am i going to beat them if everyone's reading the same bullshit like everyone recommended this book called range and it's about how having a lot of range or not having a lot of range i was like that's fucking shitty to me i just found it boring i really find more interesting around like uh specific biographies of people like i read being nixon that was super interesting or the secret race book it's basically lance armstrong's teammate and he talks mad shit about him okay and i was like and it's a little bit of shit talking and drama and gossip around that part but there's also a fascination for me around what it takes

to be at that level of dedication right all of us want that level of success or that level of it but are we willing to do what it takes for it? No, most people aren't, yeah. No, of course they're not. Everyone wants to look fit, right? But why is it that nobody's willing to stick with it? That's why there's a whole billions of dollar industry around health and fitness. People should watch the Armstrong Live.

They've never seen that documentary. Have you ever seen it? No, Armstrong Live. Oh my God. It is like, it'll just blow your face off. It's so good. Armstrong Live. Oh, my God. It is like it'll just blow your face off. It's so good. Hold on. Armstrong Live?

It might be called The Armstrong Lie or Armstrong Lies. Oh, Lie. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah, I can't even talk about it now because now you're interested. You're going to want to watch it, so I'm not going to really spill the beans on anything. All right. It's absolutely fantastic.

What are you doing to stay fit? It Looks like you're staying in good shape. Thanks, man. Yeah. You know, that's one thing that I've appreciated about myself is two things. One, I have an accountability buddy. So if you guys don't have an accountability buddy, Mark, I don't know if you have a Facebook group or get something where people can have- Is it an imaginary person? No, no. It's my buddy Adam from mybodytutor.com. Okay. The real person. So yeah, every week we check in on health.

So I email him every week what I'm doing for my health. And I have health goals for the year. I talked about my health list. But so like my goals this week are I want to bike 80 miles. I want to do 1,500 push-ups. And I want to do one virtual boxing. Damn, that's good. Yeah, so I have an Oculus.

If you guys don't have an oculus they have all these workouts in there and so there's a virtual i normally have a trainer that comes over um it was it was amazing but right now i don't i didn't feel comfortable but yeah the oculus has it uh so i've been doing that and also playing squash it's like a very white person sport like i haven't started wearing a polo yet that's when you know things like squash it's a very fun game is that where you hit the ball you hit like a ball with like a the ball just doesn't bounce though it doesn't bounce much so here's the thing i've realized for health is that squash it's like a you know racquetball it's with your hand no isn't that handball that's handball so handball is like

racquetball but with a racket racquetball is like handball with a racket squash is like that but it's a british it's from britain and it's a little bit slower than the racquetball and i find it more interesting but i think the biggest thing for me with health and fitness is like how to make it fun because like with biking i'm like oh yeah i gotta put on more fucking spandex look like a weirdo and then i go guess what i do i ride around in a circle i go out and i come right back home and so i think what i've found for and you know working out i used to work out like four or five times a week in the gym and i was like i felt honestly like i was in prison i was like i'm in a prison i'm in jail prison like i'm

intentionally minus the butt sex not i mean maybe i'm having butt sex at the gym in the sauna so what i found for me mark is that like i've got to figure out what am I trying to get my body to function? If you haven't read Tom Brady's book, he tries to sell you supplements, which is a little bit weird. But he's got some good stuff in it. And I think the thing he said that really stuck with me is like, what's the function that you're trying to have for your body? Is it like an aesthetic? Is it like a performance thing? And for me, it's like, I want to look good enough that I can lift up a car, but not actually lift it up.

And I want to stay flexible in my old age. So for me, it's like, am I going to a recovery I can lift up a car, but not actually lift it up. And I want to stay flexible in my old age. So for me, it's like, am I going to a recovery gym? Which I go to a recovery gym once a week. So ice bath and sauna. And then I try to do sports that are fun and sustainable that kind of keep the aesthetic of the body that I want and the functionality. So those are the four things that I pretty much do. I can't do squash now, so we've been doing pickleball, which is like another hipster game. It's very popular.

Where can people find you? I would say if you're interested, if you're on Podcast World, Noah Kagan Presents Show. If you're looking to start or grow a business or you've been interested in any of that, AppSumo.com is our marketplace for software deals. And if you want to hear more from me directly, sendfox.com slash Noah.

It's just my weekly newsletter on marketing where I put out just a lot of the stuff we're talking about or recommend people and things that I find interesting around startups and marketing. Thank you so much, man. Thanks for your time. And thanks for all your help, man. You've been helping me for a long time.

Anytime I got some weird questions that I don't know the answers to, I usually hit you up. And you've been really gracious with your time. I appreciate it so much. Thank you. Dude, thank you guys for having me. And whoever's doing the email thing,

hit me up afterwards or I'll follow up with you guys and help you get going. Because like, biggest thing, you know, just like we're talking about with starting a business, just getting it going and building that consistency. We will for sure. Have a good rest of your day.

Thank you. All right, guys. Thanks for having me. See you. He's so cool. Yeah. How come you never introduced us before, Mark? Keeping them all to yourself. Keeping them top secret.

Yeah, man. It's amazing to have people like that. The funny thing about him is like he won't actually do anything. So like he has to try to find me somebody because like like he doesn't want to get his, he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. Like he doesn't actually, he knows how to do everything. You guys can see how smart he is. And if he had to do it for himself, of course he would invest the time in it. Right. But like, I'm just some guy that he barely knows. So like I hit him up. I know him. Uh, I know him through a mutual friend and he's just always been super nice with, with helping us. You know, he helped us, um, gain, um, a few people that have helped, um,

with consulting for us in addition to helping us with some employees in addition to helping us with a lot of website stuff. And we use the Sumo app. I don't know if we still use it at the moment, but I know that we used it for a long time. So he's been amazing with that. But, yeah, anytime I hit him up, he's like, oh, let me send you like this guy. You know, he always has to kind of like pawn me off on somebody. But that's what people like that do, and they do that because he doesn't have the time. He doesn't have the bandwidth to be like, okay, Mark, I'm going to help you.

I'm going to build a website for you. Like it's going to be a catastrophe. It's going to take him way too long. He won't be able to do it. But you can see how efficient he wants to work on everything. It's pretty awesome. He kind of alluded to that too earlier. Instead of wasting time trying to learn how to program,

find someone really good at that, and then either utilize them or, like he's probably going to do with you, send you their way because he trusts them or like he's probably going to do with you send you that their way because he trusts them and you know if he trusts somebody like that they're going to be someone who does good work so yeah and what you've been hearing well at least what i've been hearing a lot lately is like oh you don't know how to do an email list or whatever the programming is uh you know google it youtube it learn it and he's like have someone else do it they'll do it better faster and you guys will accomplish way more that way so i think that you know i think

both ways work but obviously it's worked for him really really well so you know he has the track record to be able to you know stand by what he's saying i think he's one of those people too it'd be good for us to check back in with him every few months. You know, he had so much, I mean, it seems like you can talk to that guy about anything, but he can turn almost anything into a, into a business. And so I know that that's fresh on people's minds, especially right now as he was talking about losing jobs, you know, which is a very serious thing that's happening. You know, there's,

there's a handful of things going on at one time. That's what makes all this so difficult. I like what he said about the stimulus package, like just pretend it doesn't exist almost. And if it comes, then great. That can help bridge a gap for you. But luckily, in the time that we're in, people are supposed to be, you know, not so demanding of the rent and mortgages and things like that, the leases that people have. And so hopefully there'll be a little bit of wiggle room on some of that. But the stimulus package, along with the forgivable loans that they're giving to small businesses and stuff, that should be a jolt and enough to give people enough wiggle room to get through a couple of months.

You know, if this thing indeed only does last a couple, hopefully it only does last a couple of months. But something I found super interesting that he said, and this is something I've been talking about quite a bit. And then people get, they get pissed about. talking about quite a bit and then people get they get they get pissed about but i i don't i don't really truly believe that there's that many people that are really hurting i do understand there's a lot of people that are going to lose their jobs i do understand people live paycheck to paycheck but what he said about socks that was a fascinating thing like you're going to buy less socks who doesn't have a less socks. Who doesn't have a ton of socks? Who doesn't have a ton of underwear? And what I've been pointing out, you know, people have a surplus. People have an enormous amount of stuff that they just truly

don't need. When people are making comments on my Instagram and they're saying stuff about me being at my beach house or something like that, I find it amusing because they're saying it from the same exact phone that I have. I have all the same responsibilities that they have. They have all their same responsibilities that I have. We have access to many of the same things. I may have access to a couple of things that are slightly different, but a home is a home, a car is a car, right? They're all, it's all a washing machine is a washing machine. A dryer is a dryer. Microwave is a microwave. It's all, you know, similar. My main point on that though, is just that, like, I really liked that point that he said about people cutting back on socks. Cause it's, it's a, it's a way to, to kind of say, Hey, look,

you know, we're in America. People have a lot of, people have an abundance of things. And I'm not saying everyone is in the same boat. Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I do understand that people don't have as much money. But even in talking to my dad, somebody who's been doing taxes for over 40 years, I'm like, and you got to keep in mind, my dad is probably doing taxes for a subset of people that are doing, are doing okay. You know? So I understand that too, but he also deals with inner city people. He also deals with people from church. He also, he takes on anybody. He doesn't, their finances don't matter. My dad's done a lot of finances for free. And my point here is I said, dad, how many people have you worked with that don't have a refrigerator full of food that don't have some of these streaming services at home

that don't have a pantry full of food? And he said, I never worked with anybody like that ever. He said, I'd be open to it, but he's like, I haven't just haven't come across. And I'm not, again, I'm not saying they don't exist. Uh, my main point here is I think everyone's going to be fine. And I think that these stimulus packages and these forgivable loans, along with people hopefully taking the advice from Noah and not waiting around, sitting on their hands, waiting for a check from Donald Trump or whatever it is they might be waiting for. Yeah. You know, I have a question for you, and I'm really curious about your thoughts on it because he said something and it was along the lines of, you know, there are a lot of things that we want to do, you know, that people want to do now since they have the time to take advantage of it. Things that you're interested in and starting a business in that sense, when it becomes not enjoyable, is that something you should continue to pursue, even though there may be a lot of money behind it? Like, I really enjoy this podcast.

This doesn't feel like a job for me, right? I enjoy learning from these people, talking with you guys, learning new things. And even when there was no money in it, I still just really liked doing it. So it's not something I think twice about, but if I hated coming on air and talking to both your faces, first off, you guys would be able to tell, but then it's like, even if there was money, I just wouldn't want to do it. What do you think about that? Cause there's probably a lot of people who are like, ah, this is, there's money here. Should I do this? I don't like it. What do you think? I think that if you have developed a skill set somewhere, you probably owe it to yourself to utilize that skill set

until you can make a jump towards something different. Make your life as comfortable as you need it to be until you're able to, you know, perhaps move on into doing something different. Even if you just have a job that you don't like, that you maybe, you maybe don't even necessarily have a great skill set, like Andrew's old job, where it's like, you kind of learned what they needed you to learn. And it wasn't like you had this skill set that you can go and carry out to the rest of the world that was going to be of tremendous value. Although just working in an office itself brings you a certain skill set. I would just say you always want to be working on making a living while you're chasing your dreams, your goals.

Working on making a living while you're also maybe chasing a a fortune and a fortune again like fortune means like fortunate you know not necessarily uh tons of wealth not necessarily tons of money but and andrew also mentioned this i think there's a lot of great things that we can learn um from andrew's old job and and to what he took on, Andrew knew that he would, that he was going to make more. He was going to like be more just by taking this job, even though dollar per dollar, it was less. And I think people miss that. And a lot of people are really fooled by their jobs too.

A lot of people have, they have a company car, they have like insurance, they have like A, B like a b and c and they're like hey i only get paid this but i have i have these other things so it's as if i make and it's really not though because uh having the extra money um just allows you a freedom that the company car doesn't allow you and so there's a lot that kind of plays into that. But anyway, I would just say, like, you know, you want to work to kind of bridge the gap in between, you know, what you, what you can do, what's available to you versus what you ultimately would love to do. Let me ask you this to follow up on that. Has there ever been something that you were doing in the past that you felt passionate about for a while, then it started to feel like not fun and you're like, nah, even though there was money there, did you just turn away from it because you're like, I don't enjoy this anymore?

hasn't really been too much stuff like that that I can think of right off the top of my head but like even something and even something in terms of like let's just say like being in better shape like being leaner like I enjoyed I enjoyed the bodybuilding show and I enjoyed I enjoyed that look um but I didn't enjoy it enough I'm not interested in it enough to stay that way all the time. Otherwise, I would eat less. Otherwise, I would, you know, do the appropriate training to look that way again, you know. And so, like, I think about that kind of stuff a lot. And even with some of Noah's questions and some of the stuff that he brought up, you know, kind of about, he kind of basically said something that effective, like, you know, kind of careful of falling into that trap of always wanting, of always wanting more. Um, I definitely don't feel like I'm, I'm in, I'm in that trap. I feel, I feel great. Like I'm super happy. And, um, in a conversation where we're going back and forth and I'm trying to explain, uh, you know, something that we're trying to do with the podcast. It's not a long enough format for me to like, you know, really express a hundred percent of everything that's going on. But, um, you know, I, I feel really comfortable with all this stuff that I do. I would say that,

you know, staying here in Bodega and staying away from the gym, like it was conscious decision, you know, by myself. Cause I'm like, Hey, you know, I, I closed the gym down to everybody. And I was like, that's not a good example. You know, even though I can go in there, that's not a good example. Me going into super training, you know, training and, uh, while the whole team, you know, we're a team, we're in it, we're like, we're in it together. I tell you guys all the time, you guys don't work. I don't view it as you work for me. I view it as we all work together. You know, we work for slingshot. We work for super training. We work for, um, the power project. And, um, I, I just, I've been thinking

about a lot of that stuff more recently. And I love doing this, like out of the, out of the different things that I do. And I also realized like lifting part, like I, I love to load up some weight on my back. Like a squat is probably my favorite thing to do. Like I, I was good at benching, but I always loved the challenge of a squat. And I love like the feel of like doing box squats and that kind of stuff. It's just something that's been super fascinating for me. I really enjoy it a lot, but this kind of shows me like, I just don't really need any of that. And I don't know how long, you know, it's only been a couple days really, but I don't know how long it will last for. This is fun. Just going out here, walking, running, doing what I can with other types of weights. Um, I would just say like, it makes me

feel plenty good enough. You know, it's not, I'm not noticing a dip. I'm not like, Hey man, I was normally at like an eight and now I'm not like a four. You know, I still feel, I still feel really good, really positive every day. And thinking over what he said about like having a good day and kind of writing out what a good day would look like. I get to do what I, I get to do what I enjoy every day and I get to do what I, I get to do what I enjoy every day. And I get to do what's interesting to me every day. And so almost every single day is a good day. Every once in a while, I will, I will end up like without knowing it. Cause I'm not great with, I'm not great at organizing. So then the scheduling, you know, I could get,

I can get pulled in some different directions and that's just my own fault. I take responsibility for that because I could, I could say, this is for Mondays. This is for Tuesdays. This is for when, like, I'm going to shoot a commercial for slingshot on Wednesdays. I could tell everybody that and we can make that like, so right. And then we could say, Hey, we're doing podcasts on Tuesdays and Thursdays only. Um, but I, I just choose not to, cause I'm not, my brain doesn't usually, uh, work that way. I'm a little bit more spur of the moment type thing. And so every once in a while I can get like, um, I guess you'd just say like overwhelmed, you know? Um, but again, it's my own fault because i'm not like scheduling

things in certain ways and stuff like that but for the most part i feel amazing and being here has really kind of taught me you know how i can feel more amazing yeah and then doing all the uh the remote podcasting stuff we haven't skipped a beat so this i think is gonna open up a lot of eyes to everybody to be like maybe i don't need a full-on like 40 000 studio like mark bell like i could i could just do it through zoom and not miss a beat so it's been fun too because and then like the other episode that went up today was the episode with jason poston and that was the latest we've ever recorded. It was like 730 at night. Oh yeah. You know, that's never happened. So again, another eye opener. Yeah, this has been

really cool. And again, you know, for people that have been following along, we don't know exactly when this one's going to air, but what's today's date, Andrew? Today is April 7th. Today's April 7th. And we're going to have a lot more guests coming on that are going to talk about specifically about the coronavirus we have. We got Drew Pinsky on, a.k.a. Dr. Drew. He's been around for a long time. He can help us break down some of the stuff that's been said by some other people that we've had on the show. We had Daniel Arrego, Dr. Batar. We're working on a lot of other people. Peter Itea is, is not available at the moment. He's pretty, he's pretty tied up with stuff,

but I'm confident that he'll he'll break free at some point and we'll be able to get him. I can, I do not recall the name of the last guy that we had that we booked for, I think, later this week. But he's got exceptional information that I think, you know, I'm trying to uncover stuff that maybe is a little unconventional. Not for the sake of just throwing a bunch of bullshit out there, but for the sake of getting everybody to think. think. A stat that I heard today is that despite what we heard from Daniel, Daniel had an incorrect assessment. It is my belief. I'd have to look into it again. But Andrew, you asked the question, have more people died? And the answer is no, they haven't. And there's not more people that are dead from, again, I have to look into the information to be a hundred percent correct. And maybe we can attach the show notes because I have, I have the actual stats, but even in terms

of flu, there's not more people dead when you, when you consider even with COVID-19. So with flu, COVID-19, and I believe it was all caused some of the other causes of death. Um, it, it hasn't spiked, you know, it just kind of goes to show you like shit happens the way it happens. And, um, there's less people dying in car accidents and there's, there's less people dying from other things because people aren't out and about and, uh, all that kind of stuff. So I'm just excited though, about, about some of the guests that we're going to have on the show. I think, uh, hopefully our, our fans will be pumped up about it too.

Hopefully not too triggered either. Maybe. Yeah, they can get it. That's okay. They can get a little triggered. My, uh,

my computer here, I didn't put a, um, a plug with it. So it's about to, uh, it's about to shit the bed. Got it.

All right. Well, I'll get us out of here. Uh, thank you everybody for checking out today's podcast. Um, please make sure you're following the podcast on instagram at mark bells power project uh at mb power project on tiktok and twitter uh we're on linkedin facebook youtube all over the place my instagram is at i am andrew z in sima where you be and see my inyang on instagram and youtube at and see my yin yang on tikka talk and twitter mark

peeps stay on top of those 10 minute walks i've been crushing them every day i in addition to that i added in 100 squats i would love for you guys to join in on that and i've been staying up on the 10 minute squat as well there's you know you don't have to you know worry about putting as much time into all the other things you were doing before so hopefully you can join in on some of that to uh try to keep everything going and carnivore 100 is coming right down to the wire here we're on day 97 so just a couple a couple more days and then i'm going to switch into pizza 100 where i'm going to eat pizza every day all day for 100 days straight and see what the results i results that will be thanks everybody so much for following along appreciate the support and appreciate uh people that are starting to

understand some of the stuff that i'm trying to do via social media i see some people getting upset and things like that but that's cool that's fine if we uh if we end up you know losing a few thousand people here and there i actually think that that it's good because the new people that we gain, those will be the people that we want to roll with anyway. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell everywhere. Hey, you know.

Power Project crew, thank you for checking out this episode with Noah Keegan. We had a lot of fun. I hope you guys had a lot of fun. I hope you found a lot of value the way we did. Right now we want to give a huge shout-out and thank you to our homie Bobby searcher. Uh, we've seen him around these parts quite a bit on, uh, on the Instagrams and whatnot. Uh, he left us a review and we wanted to say thank you. So Bobby says, great commute. I've enjoyed a lot of the guests and topics, great content for the daily commute, no pretentiousness, good mix. That was a really hard word for me to pronounce, but I sincerely appreciate that review. Uh, thank you so much, man. We really appreciate you kind

of sticking around with us for so long. Um, really we'll never be able to thank you enough, but hopefully this was at least some of, uh, some of the debt was paid back. Uh, if you listen right now, if you would like to hear your name right on air, please head over to iTunes right now, drop us a rating and a review, and you could hear your name on air, just like our homie, Bobby searcher. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Peace.