Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 372 - Herd Immunity Explained ft. Mike Mutzel

Episode Date: April 21, 2020

Mike Mutzel is a father, husband, urban farmer, and founder of MYOXCIENCE Nutrition, a supplement company that strives to help people maintain and sustain their metabolic health and body composition by supporting the health of their muscle. He obtained his MS in Clinical Nutrition and regularly conducts live webinars and workshops to help healthcare professionals keep abreast of the rapid advancements in the fields of nutrition, metabolism, and immunity. Mike's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/highintensityhealth Mike on IG: https://www.instagram.com/metabolic_mike/?hl=en Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Support us by visiting our sponsors! ➢Perfect Keto: http://perfectketo.com/power25 Use Code "POWERPROJECT" for 25% off and free shipping on orders of $99! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Icon Meals: http://iconmeals.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

Power Project crew, thank you for checking out today's episode. This was recorded on April 15th, which is my birthday. Yeah, we did two today. Two-a-days. What's a quarantine doubles? Hashtag that on Instagram. We're doing two workouts a day from April 15th through the end of the month. Sorry for that complete sidebar and totally derailing this intro.

But today we spoke with our homie Mike Mutzel. Mike Mutzel has been, I mean, he's just a wealth of knowledge. He helped me out during my SARM series. He's the one that was the first one to step up and say like, yes, dude, I'll read your blood work. I'll help you get through this. So he helped me out with some of my stuff personally. But he's just somebody that we always reach out to. Mark and him text each other back and forth a ton because he's just so knowledgeable.

As you guys will hear on this episode, we joked around about Tiger King and he's like, what's that? It's like, oh, come on, dude. You don't know. He's like, no, I'm often just reading journals and I'm watching the news. He's just very informed on many different things. So, we talked and we had a discussion about the quarantine because he has different views than what most have. You know, he doesn't really necessarily say that it's not doing anything, but he believes that the herd immunity and approaching it that way is probably the better option. But he also isn't too dogmatic about it because he does admit that like, yeah, the quarantine probably is helping, but maybe there's a better way. And for those that follow him and maybe a certain someone else on social media, he does kind of take a slight shot at somebody in the, if it fits your macros community. If you guys, again, if you follow everyone, you guys know who I'm talking about

already. If you guys don't, you guys will hear it on the podcast. But we talked about a whole bunch of stuff. We talked about fasting, how to boost your immune system, whether or not people who are out of shape, if it's too late for them, right? Because you see that argument also online. Like, hey, if you guys want to fight this virus, if you want to make sure that it doesn't affect you as bad as everyone else, get in shape. That's like the short answer. And then other people are like, well, no, it's too late to get in shape now because it's already run rampant. It's time to get a vaccine. So we answer that question on this episode too. So before we get to it, thank you to Perfect Keto for sponsoring this episode. Like I keep saying, the Perfect perfect keto MCT oil powder specifically for me, the salted caramel. Second would be vanilla.

Third would be chocolate. It absolutely, totally, completely, and all for the better, changes the flavor of my coffee. I was that person that did like to add a little bit of creamer to my coffee. You know, it's something to add flavor to my stuff. This was before fasting, so before I could not have anything, I really, really enjoyed having, uh, some flavor in my coffee and being able to add something that's not going to screw up my fat. Well, you know, that that's debatable, but it's not going to make me starve right away. Once I add a little bit of something, it's not going to spike any crazy blood sugar levels or insulin responses and all that

jazz. Uh, it's just going to make my coffee taste amazing. or insulin responses and all that jazz. It's just going to make my coffee taste amazing. Give me some extra added fats to help fuel my day. And just like I said, like it's just going to make me feel amazing because I feel like I'm almost cheating because I'm having so much good flavor in my coffee. If you guys are interested in checking some of this stuff out, please head over to perfect keto.com slash power 25 at checkout, enter promo code power project for 25% off your order of $99 or more plus free shipping on top of all of that. Uh, please head over there right now. You guys will see, we have a list of things that we prefer the most, but really everything

on their website's amazing. They don't use any artificial sweeteners. So if you guys have like stomach issues or you've been sensitive to stuff like that, that's kind of makes you cramp up. I know some of that stuff does to me. I've had zero issues with perfect keto stuff. So I highly, highly recommend it. And we are still offering 20% off any slingshot and hip circle combo over at markbellslingshot.com. You can add any slingshot of your choice, any hip circle of your choice, and you'll receive 20% off at checkout. So please take advantage of that. And while you're at markbellslingshot.com, check out the new kids hip circles, check out the new gangsta wrap color

ways. They are the absolute best looking wraps in the market. I mean, they're the best looking, they're the best wraps period. All right. They're second to none. Gangster wraps are a game changer. Uh, but these new colorways are, I mean, they're, they're so clean, just seriously, markbellslingshot.com. And we are still offering a free 30 day trial of markbell.com in case you guys missed it. Markbell.com is where Mark posts his daily workouts every single day. So if you are without a gym right now, you need a little bit of guidance. Mark's got your back and you've right now he, you can do it for absolutely nothing. It's absolutely free. Every single day you will get a brand new workout. So, you know, if, if you're not too experienced or you maybe have minimal gym equipment, Mark's got your back because every day, like, you know, today's going to be chest day. Tomorrow's going to work legs, like whatever it may be.

You're going to get some guidance and some coaching directly from Mark Bell. So please head over to markbell.com, register, and you'll gain access to the entire website. Thank you again for checking out this episode. Thank you, Mike Mutzel, for taking the time out of your day to record this with us. If you guys like this conversation, please reach out to Mike. His YouTube and his Instagram links will be down in the YouTube description, Facebook description, and iTunes show notes. Reach out to him. Let him know what you guys think.

And for now, ladies and gentlemen, enjoy the show. I watched a Netflix thingy last night with – it's called like The Devil Next Door or something. It's a series. I think they might have done it with a couple of people. But this one is about Ivan the Terrible. Have you guys seen anything like this before? No. Oh, I think I saw that.

Yeah, it's wild. It's about a guy that they thought was a Nazi guard that killed hundreds of thousands of people. He was, he was partially responsible. I mean, not partially, he was responsible for a lot of deaths of Jewish people in these like

concentration camps and stuff. And it was just, it was, it was a wild story, but I think people should check it out. It's pretty cool. The one thing I don't like about Netflix stuff right now, I fucking hate the fact that they draw everything out with the

series yeah i know that they can and i know that they're trying to get that viewing time probably up for there's probably a bunch of reasons on why they try to do that but like this thing could have been it could have been it could have been 90 minutes you know it didn't have to be three different three different parts you know 50 minutes each or whatever. The most annoying thing that I find that Netflix does is if you're browsing and you pause for a second, it starts playing a preview of whatever it is. I'm like, I don't want that. I'm looking, I'm reading, and I don't need you yelling at me, telling me why this is a good show. I'll figure it out.

I wish you could turn that off. Yeah. Let me real quick. I'm not even sure if I finished the, uh, Ivan, the terrible thing. Did he end up being like,

did he end up being Ivan the terrible, or I don't know if I want to ruin this for people. Actually, I'm not going to now. No, don't tell me off air. Tell me off air. Yeah.

People should check it out. It just brings up a lot of controversial thoughts. I mean, you would just think, look, you know what? Any motherfucker that has to deal, has to do with the Holocaust, I want all those fucking people to burn or whatever you might think about it, right? Like the people that have, you know like the people that have you know uh the people that were these these guards and stuff like that and these people that were in charge of like killing thousands of people but at the same time you're like well uh

you know was that guy forced to do it like you know it it brings up a lot of questions i mean my personal uh stance on it i'm not even going to really mention because it's not it's not it's not worth it's not even worthwhile but it's a it's just an inch it brings up a lot of interesting thoughts you know because what if you're like an 18 year old kid you know and you're like you're just being you know you're scared you know you're like i'm gonna get my brains blown out so yeah i, you know, you're like, I'm gonna get my brain blown out. So I gotta, you know, push these people and make these people go in a line and all that kind of stuff. But I guess, you know, what I would say is that, like, we all know right from wrong. And you kind of know right from wrong, I think, probably by the age of about six or seven,

at least to some degree, unless you're like, unless you're, unless you have some sort of imbalance or unless you're, you know, unless you have like some sort of mental disorder, I think most people do. So you could see just how treating people like shit and not allowing people to eat. And I mean, you can just, you can identify that at a really young age. So that'd be the one thing it's like i guess in that situation you would have to pick death over doing what you're told you know what i mean which i don't know how many people are courageous enough to do that yeah so there was no i was just gonna go ahead i'm gonna butcher it but someone so one of our viewers is gonna like have the exact experiment

name but i'm pretty sure both of you have heard of it. They had like, I don't know, 30, whatever, however, so many people. And they had one person on the other side of the room or something. And then the scientist was like, hey, if you click, you need to click this button. It's going to shock that person. It's for means of experimentation. And as the guy, as like they kept upping the voltage, right? The individual that had to press the button when the scientists told them to, it was like some people would stop, some people would just keep doing what they were told. And it wasn't actually shocking the person,

but you could see that they're an immense amount of pain, and you're shocking them higher and higher. And a surprising amount of people just did as they were told. And like, you would like to think you wouldn't be that person who would just do it because they're ordered to, but a surprising amount, I think a majority ended up actually causing that other individual immense amounts of pain because they were told to do so. Damn. It just reminds me of a, uh, of, uh, I don't know what they're called. Um, a boutique boutique board game where your, your whole goal is, you know,

to win the game, you got to get all these people on this train. Like that's your one goal, like forcing these people, like you need to get on this train. And then at the end of the game, you find out that the train is going to, uh,

Auschwitz. And so you're, you basically find out you've been working for the Nazis and it's just like, Oh, I won, but, I won. But shit. Yeah. So that's that's that's what that reminds me of.

Yeah. Anyway, we got our boy Mike Mutzel on today. And Mike is it doesn't seem to be a fan of the quarantine. So we'll be talking to him about that. And again, if you guys have recommendations, somebody posted on my YouTube channel, and they gave us a great idea. So thank you so much. I forget what the name is, but really appreciate people sharing some opposing views and people sharing what they think would be effective. And they said, you know, why don't you have a debate? And I was like, okay, done deal.

We'll figure it out. We'll have a debate. We'll try to get, you know, one person who's on one side of the quarantine. We'll try to find another person that's on the other side of it. And we'll have them speak and we'll try to just, you know, have a good, have a good conversation and, and and and see what the different thoughts are i think that's a great idea i love it i think um i don't know why we didn't think about that because we've been talking about this for a while but yeah you know we didn't come to

that conclusion ourselves so thank you appreciate the fans out there we're just gonna have to have them be very cordial on zoom because on zoom it's very easy to like not get your full point across but somebody else starts talking it's just you know what i mean so you just we gotta moderate yeah i was gonna say if it gets a little too crazy i could easily mute it'll be i remember there was an espn show that was like that where people would be arguing about sports and then they would get muted or something. So yeah, I could definitely do that. Remember that one show they had on ESPN where they, uh, would like give the guy points for his argument.

And it's like the one guy ran the show. Do you remember that? Like, yeah, I think that's the one. Yeah. Oh yeah. And we just like,

like if it's SEMA said something stupid, you just like, you just mute them, you know? And then if I had like a, a response that was good, you would like, you would hit the button and give me a bunch of points or he would get points deducted and he gets muted yeah it's

like shut down that show is hilarious i can't remember what it was called espn must be dying right now they have not they got they got nothing to report on that they uh were talking about about um they were giving awards out for college hockey when I went on there the other day. Because they say they got nothing better to do. So they were talking about like last year's, you know, best scores in college hockey. And I was like, oh, my God, like good for them that they're finding something to talk about. But holy shit. Yeah, I've seen that they're broadcasting a lot of old games, but like important old games.

I thought that was pretty cool. I'm like, shit, I'd be watching that even if there was like live basketball on, you know, watching some of the old school stuff. Right. That Gordon documentary is coming out. Oh, yeah. This weekend, right? Yeah. I think it's Saturday or Sunday.

You know who's going to watch that? Everybody. I really do. I really think that like, you know, I think, I think everybody's going to watch that. I think that's going to be really,

uh, really cool. I, I, I heard a recent, uh, thing with, uh,

Muhammad Ali and he talked about countries like shutting down and, and the streets shutting down and people not doing shit other than watching him when he was, when he other than watching him when he was when he was a champ when he was world champ and uh just how cool that is but i think you know at this time when everything is like shut down and people don't have a lot of stuff to watch i think a lot of people are going to be really pumped about watching the documentary i mean michael jordan he means so much to so many people like i have goosebumps just thinking about like i'm getting excited i've been to games my dad took me to a new york knicks chicago bulls game and it was the game where jordan uh goes on the baseline and just dunks

right in the face of i think i think starks was covering him and i think he dumped on ewing i think from what i remember but like I just suit just yeah just amazing like he was such a cool athlete and you know I was I was a basketball fan because of him I didn't really care about basketball otherwise that much but he kind of drew me to it he made me a fan of it and then like I remember you know playing in my yard, like shooting hoops. And I played some freshman basketball. And like, I just, I think, I think anybody from that era, like it's impossible to not be inspired by Michael Jordan. I have a question for both of you, which may cause some debate because so there, there,

there are these different ideas of greatness in basketball. Some people are saying LeBron is the greatest player and Jordan was the greatest scorer and, and obviously champion because he's has more rings. And I kind of agree because LeBron can pass, he can shoot, he has all this athleticism. So as a player, I think he's the greatest, but what do you guys think? Man, I think, uh, I think the way that Jordan took over the game all the time is what's going to be the most recognized. He wanted to be on his shoulders, but also, too, maybe his team was set up that way so that his attributes could shine through.

And I think LeBron's role is so different. LeBron James is more equivalent to Magic Johnson than he is to Michael Jordan because he distributed the ball to a lot of other people. He'd get rebounds, and he's just a great basketball player in general. So maybe that's the – Jordan can figure out ways to dump a lot of points on your head, and LeBron is maybe more of – maybe he'd be considered more of a team player. Yeah, it's not even close. It's Michael Jordan on both sides.

I thought you guys would say that. Yeah. Look at this guy, professional microphone and everything. He'll get it figured out. Yeah, yeah. He'll get there. Mm-hmm. But I guess that's still a pretty good argument because yeah michael

there we go there we go there he is there we go even better all right god what's up man what's happening what's going on yo mike what's going on dude hey i'm doing good how are you guys we're good we're doing uh doing fantastic we were just shooting the shit about uh michael jordan because he's got a documentary coming on Sunday. And then we kind of were talking about the debate over LeBron and Jordan. Where do you sit on that? Ooh, that's tough. I mean, I like Jordan just because I guess, you know,

his play style is inked in my head from just growing up and watching, you know. But LeBron's amazing too. So, yeah, I was going back when Kobe died, going back and watching some of those Jordan, you know, Kobe one-on-one videos. It was really cool. There's a bunch of highlights on YouTube. So anyway, interesting. I'll have to check out that documentary. Yeah. We're, we're excited for it over here. Um, we've been following along with, uh, you know, a lot of your stuff online, especially since the last conversation last time we had you on the podcast. And we see you giving out great information. But what we wanted to talk about, especially in the beginning of this podcast is, you know, this quarantine and

kind of like, you know, we're on lockdown for this thing. And, you know, we have certain beliefs about it. And we would like to hear some of your thoughts on the quarantine, some of your thoughts on the coronavirus. And I think you posted the other day about possible ways of getting tested for it and things like that. So where do you sit when it comes to the coronavirus? Oh, man. You know what? It's a tough thing, as you guys know. I mean, it's almost like, who do you believe? I have a lot of friends that are doctors that are on the front lines in the ICUs and the ERs, and they're telling me how severe it is, how they're seeing patients crash. But I feel like, for some of us, you know, I look at the numbers all the time every day,

you know, whether it's the IHME model, which is found at healthdata.org.gov, which basically is the model that the White House has been using. And all of these models have calculated or tried to calculate in terms of their social distancing measures and fatalities and all that. And they've been way off. So that to me, and again, the consequences of being off are 16 million people are out of jobs. People are getting arrested for paddleboarding on the beach. I mean, it's absolutely insane. So we hear the one side where the ERs and ICUs are overburdened. And then in the last week alone, I mean, you guys have probably seen this stat, over, I think, 60,000 health professionals have been furloughed or laid off throughout the U.S. alone, right?

So you're like, anyway, so we're hearing two sides of the story. And so it's kind of challenging for, for people because, um, the, the deaths haven't really, uh, the analogy that I've been using and just kind of talking with people about is like, there's a lot of smoke and it seems like at least on the West coast, there's not a lot of fire. And I'm not discounting the loss of, I think in California, there's been some 900, some odd deaths throughout the state. LA has had 300 or something like that. Here in Seattle, I mean, I'll just give everyone a background and perspective. I live in Kirkland, Washington.

The very first diagnosed cases and the very first mortalities from the human novel coronavirus happened less than a mile from my house. So this thing's been circulating for a while. And in the whole state of Washington, there's been 417 some odd deaths. And I'm not trying to discount those 417 people. They had family members, people that cared about them and all that, right? But if we look at deaths from stroke, from heart disease, auto accidents, they're all down. I mean, the ICUs, outside of the ICUs, the ERs are, they're a ghost town. The only thing in terms of medical subspecialties that are really busy right now is the birthing centers because people are still having babies, right? Whether or not they want to go to hospital and get exposed to a pathogen, they're still having babies because

that baby's coming out when it's time is right. So anyway, I think, you know, it's health, generally healthy people, your audience, you know, they're doing fitness stuff at home, they're going outside running, squatting and all that, which I think is amazing. I think the onus is on us to go get our antibodies tested so that we can tweet our governors and our mayors and say, look, man, I have or I haven't been exposed to this. You know, I think a lot of people and I know, Mark, you've been sharing a lot of these stats and stuff. A lot of people have been exposed to this.

There was a town in Germany, 14% of the population had antibodies to this novel human coronavirus. In the city of Chicago, phlebotomists, which are people that draw blood, over 30% of them had high antibodies. And so that's the thing that we're not really hearing about. And so I've been diving into the literature quite extensively. New England Journal of Medicine had tracked individuals, healthcare professionals that treated MERS, the Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome that was big in like 2009, really much highly transmissible, highly fatal, much more fatal than the novel human coronavirus that we're dealing with now,

which is the SARS-CoV-2 virus. But the point that I'm trying to get at is the healthcare practitioners that treated those patients, they still have antibodies. Individuals in the first SARS pandemic or epidemic that happened in Asia in 2009, again, those health professionals, scientists have been tracking their antibodies. They still have high antibodies. So I think there's this perception that we all have to stay on lockdown until, and life will never get back to normal until there's the vaccine. But what people don't really realize is, again, we have an immune system, right? We have this

ability to create antibodies and people certainly get sick from this. There's no doubt. Kobe Bryant and his beautiful daughter died too early in a helicopter crash. Bad things happen to good people. But the vast majority of mortalities and severe disease states are occurring in individuals that have obesity, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and other chronic conditions. And so I think the onus is on us now as promoters of health. A lot of people that tune into your podcast are powerlifters, trainers, coaches. This is a time to double down on your lifestyle because the probability of creating a vaccine, and let's just look at vaccine effectiveness for the influenza virus. By the way, there's been a flu vaccine for,

I don't know how many years, at least 10, 12 years. It's only 43% effective, right? Even though there's a vaccine that tons of people take for the flu shot, right? The influenza anything, sit on the couch and watch Netflix and CNN in hopes for a vaccine that's going to somehow eradicate all our problems. I think it's unlikely. So that's just kind of where I stand. I think we got to double down on our health. And are some people going to be impacted? Probably. Are some people going to get in car accidents? Yeah. There's a hundred percent chance that all of us are going to die in our lifetime, right? Is the probability of us dying from this novel human coronavirus high? Definitely not. I mean, if you look at 80% of people that get infected, they don't need to go to the hospital. If you look at some of the things we've been communicating over the last several years, it may have been over the course of a decade or so.

You know, eggs are bad. Eggs are good. Cholesterol is bad. Cholesterol is good. Saturated fat is bad. Saturated fat is good. Coconut oil is bad. Coconut oil is good.

Like, if you look at these things, right, it's been spread out over a long period of time. And imagine if we were doing the same thing with nutrition and the news, and it was hitting you 24 seven, for eight weeks at a time, you know, for eight straight weeks. And it was saying, look, you know, you guys are you guys are dying from diabetes, you're dying from heart disease. And here's what we think is the here's what we think is why. But we actually we don actually don't really know. Like if you had a war on carbs and you're on a ketogenic diet, we're not 100% sure because you could be eating too much fat. You could eventually be eating too many calories and you could be damaging your heart through just eating too much food. Well, you know what? Maybe you need to be active, but maybe you shouldn't be too active because that might stress your body out.

And maybe you should be doing A. Maybe you should be doing B. too active because that might stress your body out. And maybe you should be doing A, maybe you should be doing B, like, we would see a similar thing kind of happen. And it would, it would be very hard to race and to try to find the right or the correct answer. But I think what you just laid out for us, I believe is very logical, you know, okay, we do have this virus. The virus is not a hoax. It is killing people. However, you know, what is going to be our best bet? And how do we figure out a way to proceed forward? Because I think that all of us can agree that living this way, while I don't mind it, I don't mind being quarantined, I don't mind listening to the government on what they feel is best. Eventually, we need to come out of our

homes and eventually people are going to need to get back to work because I just don't see how the United States would or any part of the world would operate with people just staying in their homes all the time. 1000%. I think we're not considering the potential ramifications or the side effects of this so-called treatment. And this is a natural thing. And there's a great book, Anti-Fragile. Have any of you guys read it? Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah. It's an amazing book. It's really timely right now. Nassim Tlaib, I'm following him on Twitter and Instagram. He's more of an intellectual academic, but he has a great way of articulating problems and problem solving. So when you intervene in a system,

there's unintended consequences. Sometimes there's, they're good and there's bad things, right? It's allergy season right now. So if you take an allergy medicine, you might, you know, if you take Zyrtec or an antihistamine, right? You might not have the symptoms of the allergies, the complications of that, you might be drowsy, right? You might feel tired. You might feel lethargic. So then you need more coffee. Then that might affect your sleep, right? So anyway, the point is, anytime we intervene, we can create unintended problems. And the intervention of shutting down the economy, of distancing everyone, has unintended consequences. 16 plus million jobs are lost. A lot of people now, we were socially isolated before, right? You know, as a society, because we're always on our phones and people live by themselves.

Now we are extremely socially isolated. And if you think about the health ramifications of social isolation, they're just as bad, if not worse, as this pandemic that we're trying to treat. just as bad, if not worse, as this pandemic that we're trying to treat. So UCLA has quantified the studies and showed that if people that are socially isolated, it's as problematic for their health as is smoking, right? So if you quit smoking, you'll get the same health improvements that you would get if, say, you were formerly socially isolated and you started hanging out with friends and maybe got a girlfriend or a wife or a boyfriend, whatever. So I think all these things need to be talked about. And I think there was such maybe political pressure. There was so much unknown about this bug and we were getting

bad data from China, the World Health Organization. We found recently that they were lying about, you know. So anyway, there was so much uncertainty that I think it was maybe an overreaction or a very quick reaction to just say, hey, let's just stop everything, slow this sucker down. And I think now, hopefully May 1st, we'll start to realize that, you know what, the ramifications of that, you know, $6 trillion in debt now from all the, you know, helping out this economic stimulus, the GDP is down 40% this year. I mean, the list goes on. It's not all about finances. And I think when you talk about business for finance, people think, oh, you're just like a gun-loving, Trump-loving Republican. All you

care about is money. But money is intimately linked with health. If anyone doubts that, go to a homeless shelter. Just see for yourself. And money is part of our sense of well-being. When I first started working as a young adult after college and stuff like that, my boss was in her 70s. And as I started to get to know her, I was like, well, D, when do you think you're going to retire? And she looked me right in the eyes and she was like, you know what? People that retire die. And I was like, wow. At first, I thought, what is she talking about? People don't just die. But we was like, wow, I've never, at first I thought she's, what is she talking about? You know, people don't just die, but we've seen this people when they don't have a sense of meaning and purpose, they get depressed. They, and depression leads itself to obesity, to diabetes,

to all the conditions that are increasing the susceptibility to this novel human coronavirus. So I think, you know, we've, we've kind of applied a very allopathic approach to this and said, all right, let's just shut it down. Everyone's in their home without really thinking about everything that needs to go into this. And I'm not saying that was the wrong decision necessarily, but is it the right decision to continue that perpetuity until we get a vaccine, which may or may not be effective. And Mark, we can talk about this too. I mean, I know you talk a lot about getting people to walk after meals and all these small little steps and obesity. And I have a ton of papers I'm going to work on a video. I was looking

at the vaccine effectiveness in lean, healthy people compared to overweight and obese individuals. And it's probably not going to surprise you guys, but the vaccine effectiveness for overweight individuals is like less than 60% as effective, right? So if you take a hundred people, 60% of them are overweight and you give them the same vaccine, you'll see a dramatic decrease in the amount of antibodies that are created from the same exact dosages of the vaccine. So I think a lot of people are thinking, look, I'm just going to sit on my couch and watch Netflix for the next few years, scene. So I think a lot of people are thinking, look, I'm just going to sit on my couch and watch Netflix for the next few years, whatever. I'll wait for the vaccine. But if your immune system is shot because you're metabolically deranged and you have lack of metabolic flexibility, the efficacy or effectiveness of that vaccine is not going to be very good. So now's the time again

to double down, start walking after meals, doing all the lifestyle stuff that you guys talk about, lifting weights. All of that, I think, is going to be really helpful whether or not there is or isn't a vaccine. Yeah, I've seen a lot of people on social media. I mean, nobody knows everything, but even someone like Joe Rogan was posting. Somebody had like, I can't remember exactly what it was, but in short, it was a meme about how crazy herd immunity and that whole concept is. Can you explain to someone like me who might totally have no idea, like that sounds like the opposite of what we want. But can you explain why that might be one of the best solutions to all this? Oh, yeah. The post that he made, it was the guy was talking about having

a coronavirus party. And I've actually think that that is not an idea that or concept that's new. I think they've done this in the past. Maybe you can speak upon it better than us, Mike. Yeah. I mean, I'm not an immunologist expert, but if you think about a lot of you have kids and a lot of people listening have kids. Well, if you're a kid got chicken pox, what would you do? You'd have your kids get together to get the chickenpox to get it kind of to have because this virus is not going to live forever amongst us and constantly kill tens of thousands of people every day it's going to have its life and burn through some people that are susceptible and so forth and and then we're going to reduce the ability for it to transmit So the idea of like a party like that, or herd immunity,

where 70% of the population has antibodies against a certain pathogen, is that it can't, you know, create a basically a wildfire. So it's like a control burn. So in the summer, especially in California, you see on the freeways, you know, they're burning on purpose, right, to minimize how much combustible fuel would be available when the heat comes. And so that's kind of what like a, a coronavirus party would be. And I made a meme about that too. Like never show up to a COVID party without your own antibodies. Right. So the idea is like, and this is the, here's what- And don't show up without the coronavirus. Totally man, bring it. Dude, I'm totally game. So I've been trying to convince my wife to let me get

infected and I would run my labs every day because what we hear about in the news is a doom and gloom. This is going to kill you. You're going to be on a ventilator. I'm willing to bet on my lifestyle to show, look, I'll get this sucker. And if it kills me, it kills me, right? But we're just trying to figure out how we can work on our kid logistics and all that. So I'm getting my antibodies tested tomorrow to see if we've been exposed to it. Because at SeaTac, Seattle International Airport here, we're letting 17 international flights from China in every day. So the probability that this thing was circulating was very, very high because people are fleeing Wuhan like crazy late December, early January. And there's a huge, you know, as is in California, very dense Chinese population

here. And so we are very suspicious that my wife and her twin sister got it. They had a lot of upper respiratory issues, a lot of fatigue, but I didn't get it. And so it'll be very interesting to see because I do this cold plunge every day. I do breath work and I lift weights like you guys do. So I really think that our lifestyle plays a big role. But yeah, where I was going with that idea is that having a lot of people that have antibodies against this, it's like having a control burn. So when a major fire comes in, it's not going to be as devastating. It's not going to take out as many people.

So I think that's something that people can resonate with. And this is, I think, the big thing that we need to understand. For a vaccine to be effective or to be able to make a vaccine in general, it's based on one premise, that the human immune system can make antibodies against that antigen. The antigen that we're talking about right now is this human coronavirus. about right now is this human coronavirus. So basically, if you understand that, you're like, well, wait, the human immune system can make antibodies against this. If it couldn't, there would be no vaccine. And that's why there's no vaccine for basically HIV. It's been no human immune system has ever been shown to make antibodies against HIV, human immunodeficiency virus, because of how it changes its cell coat. So that's why there's really no vaccine right now. So that's the brilliant piece of this whole thing is that we can get exposed to this and majority, 80%, right? 80% of people that get infected with this do not need to go to the hospital and get on a ventilator. There might be a small subset of

healthy people that get really sick that that's a problem for. But again, so if we can, I think, all get exposed to this and make the healthy lifestyle choices, some of us might be really affected. Others, a lot of people don't even know they're asymptomatic. They had something. They might have thought, well, I stayed up too late and had too much wine, whatever. So I think it's interesting. And I think this is empowering. This is the mindset that we all should. This is the message we should be sharing is, whoa, don't go outside. Like, you know, stay in your house. I think the message that's really kind of a defeating, and I hate to sound insensitive,

but live off the government, be so scared. I don't think that's the message. I feel like we should all feel more empowered that, yeah, we have this really elaborate immune system that nature, scientists can barely figure out how it works, right? And we have the ability to make these antibodies, which is pretty cool. You talked about the antibody test, actually. Is the antibody test, is it available everywhere right now? Is it only in certain states or in hospitals how does one go about getting themselves tested because i just heard about it yesterday i think trump mentioned it or i heard a clip of trump mentioning it so can you tell us a little bit more about that yeah great question in sema so there's i think the easiest way to get

this right now especially on the west coast is a company called arc point labs um and so if you google it's yeah arc point labs and basically on their website um if you go into the it's kind of circuitous so what you have to do is go to their website type in your zip code to find a location and then once you're there then you click contact us and then it will pop up see the thing the thing is, it's kind of interesting is because of all these new tests are so new, there's the FDA and the SEC is kind of really like having their bots screen websites. And so they're not front and center about saying we have antibody tests because some of these haven't been approved, so to speak, by the FDA, even though their standards and methods have been validated. So that's the thing that we need to understand is like,

some of these labs that are doing this are not advertising this on the front of their webpage, but that's one. Vibrant Health America is another one. And here's what I like about the ArcPoint labs is they offer a finger stick. You get the results back in 10 minutes. So that's what's really cool is you can know right away. Now, let's say it's negative or positive, but you're pretty certain that you may or may not have been exposed to it because someone in your family was really sick. Then, and this costs 99 bucks. So it's not a big investment. And you, I've had actually, I did a video on it Monday or Tuesday and had a bunch of people book. So this thing's like

booked out. A lot of people are doing this. The other lab is called Vibrant Health America. The website is vibrant-america.com. This, I think their test, it's a serum IgG. So there's different antibodies, IgM, IgA, IgG. They're looking at IgG and IgM to look at short-term and long-term exposure to see if you have immunological memory. And they're also looking at the different proteins that the virus uses to get into your body, the spike protein and so forth. So that one, I think, is a little bit more expanded. The downside of that is you need to go and get your blood drawn. So it's a serum test.

You have to go into a phlebotomy site. That's not a major hiccup, but some people are like, look, I don't want to go to my local hospital to get my blood drawn. So I think that one is probably a little bit more scientifically validated. They're a great company as well. I've heard a lot of people use these folks, Vibrant Health America for other labs. So I think those are the two. Now, I think the CDC and the FDA is probably going to come out with maybe their own you know that will be widely disseminated and it's going to be using a very similar methodology to what these other companies are using is that available now i don't really know

so yeah it'd be interesting to see if like uh when you when you start talking about serum and antibodies and stuff i can't uh i can only think of superhero movies. And so I wonder if there's peptides or I wonder if there's even stem cells or anything that could potentially help against things like this. Dude, you bring up a great point, Mark. Actually, some of the case studies that I've been reading in Wuhan in China, where we have a lot of data because they've been scientists have had months to start to publish these things because it hit them in November. But they were using stem cells in really severe cases where people are not getting better. And we can back up and talk about why that is, but they were using stem cell therapy to help their body's immune system. stem cell therapy to help their body's immune system. So basically, if you guys want to get into it, there's this Duke University researcher that's been studying bats for a very long time.

And bats coexist with human coronaviruses and other coronaviruses very well. And how they're able to control this is much more eloquent and through their evolutionary or natural selection of coexisting with these bats. So anyway, they're infected with the coronaviruses. They have a very strong initial innate immune system response where interferon, which is a cytokine released by your T helper cells, CD4 T lymphocytes, the interferon response will neutralize some of the pathogenic elements of the coronavirus. And then their immune system basically goes quiet. What ultimately will kill a lot of people and the reason why people are in the ICU is their interferon response initially is not very good. And the immune system

freaks out and goes, oh my gosh, I don't know what the hell is going on here. So they're having a cytokine storm. So interleukin-6, interleukin-17, all these cytokines are going crazy and there's a lot of collateral damage. And so if we think about, you know, let's say you have a fly on your countertop. Let's say you have a super nice countertop, granite marble counter, it costs 30,000 bucks. If you had a fly on the countertop and you tried to hit it with a sledgehammer, you might kill the fly, but you're going to totally wreck your counter, right? That's essentially what your immune system is doing to the lungs, to your heart tissue, to your kidneys is there's a little fly on the counter and it's throwing everything at it. And it might kill the fly, but it's going to kill, it's going to wreck its own tissue. So why does this happen? Well, part of this is

what's called immunosenescence or an advanced age of the immune system. And this is a very common so-called pathological finding in people that have increased disease severity is our immune system is just exhausted. And so we see this in, guess what? The same conditions we've been talking about, obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease. Those conditions are characterized by low-level chronic inflammation. So if you can think about a cup being three-quarters of the way full and you just pour a little bit of water in there, it's going to overflow. We'll replace the water with inflammation. So if you can think about a cup being three quarters of the way full, and you just pour a little bit of water in there, it's going to overflow. We'll replace the water with inflammation. So if your inflammation is already pretty high,

and you get this coronavirus, your cup's overflown. So your immune system is just going to freak out. In fact, this is one of the most common findings. We don't have much published data from New York yet, because this has just hit in the last three weeks. But one of the very first clinical characteristics and some of the findings were just published on, what's today, Wednesday, on Monday night. And basically what they showed is exactly what I was talking about is one of the kind of decision diamonds when they were looking at hospital admissions and trying to figure out who should be admitted versus not and so forth. admissions and trying to figure out who should be admitted versus not and so forth, chronic inflammation kept coming up. And it was a predictor of who's going to be admitted to the hospital and who's going to have increased disease severity. So, and again, how do we decrease our levels of inflammation? It's all the things you guys talking about,

moving muscle, walking after meals, eating less carbs, having protein, balancing your sleep, managing stress, like All the stuff that you live and talk about is exactly how we can decrease our inflammation. And so I think it's fun that we can have these conversations. I'm a little disappointed because if you go on the CDC website, it's wash your hands, cover your face, stay home. It's like, okay, those are good messages to maybe reduce transmission of the virus. But what are some things that we can do to make sure that if we get this, our cup of inflammation is not so overblown that we're going to end up having this cytokine storm

and be on a ventilator? Rule number one for all Americans at all times should be be less fat. Hey, you're a fat shamer, man. Come on. Well, check it out. Isn't it funny how we have so many social distancing shamers, but yet it's bad if you're a fat shamer. It's like, if you say people need to lose weight, you're an asshole. But if you say, Hey, get away from me, you're within my six feet social distancing circle. It's socially acceptable to say that. It's this interesting paradox I've noticed. Yeah, it's something people are okay with right now. But I want to go in on some things that you touched on, because we've talked a lot about sleep, we talked about exercise and getting outside, walking in nature, all these things. But we're really well known for utilizing other types of hacks that aren't, you know, aren't commonly used, like the cold plunge that you mentioned. I know that I don't know if you still

use the red light therapy device that you're using. But I'm curious about what are the other things that you do on top of all of these simple habits that you think people could start maybe trying to pick up to help out themselves? And maybe even, you know, like Mark alluded to, any types of supplements that you might use to? Maybe even, you know, like Mark alluded to, any types of supplements that you might use too. Love it. And Seema, great question. So, you know, I like the cold plunge idea.

And I know, Mark, you were looking at getting one. You have it. We got the ocean right there, man. Yeah, I know. Yeah, that would be really cold. Nice. Well, I mean, here's the thing. Great question, Seema.

So let's talk about cold therapy and hot therapy. We can bundle these two things like doing sauna and cold plunges, cold showers as a form of thermal stress. A lot of your listeners are doing exercise stress or hypoxia training or they're doing occlusion training. Cold therapy and hot therapy really affect our immune system in a favorable manner. So I recommend going out and just going to a tractor supply store, getting 110 gallon stock tank, filling it with water and starting or ending your day in that sucker. And it can really affect your immune system. It can affect inflammation. It can affect your body's parasympathetic nervous system response. So help you feel more relaxed, more calm. So there's a lot of benefits and it's very affordable.

A lot of people are looking for low cost options, $110 investment. In fact, you can look on Craigslist. Yeah, this is, you don't have to like go. Yeah, there's all the biohackers on Instagram have these fancy coffin freezers that are six or 700. You don't need all that. You can just get a stock tank and check Facebook marketplace or Craigslist. Now, a little bit more expensive than a stock tank is a sauna. So a high heat sauna or an infrared sauna, sauna therapy, there's been a lot of

studies showing actually that athletes compared to sedentary people have a much more profound shift in their immune system after a sauna. So sauna can be very beneficial. So I know a lot of people, they normally go to the sauna at their gym. Their gyms are closed. So what's a poor man sauna? Well, you can turn the heat on in your home or condo and wear a sweater, just like boxers used to do back in the day and go jogging, wear a beanie. All you have to do is get hot to sweat. And that can be beneficial for your body's heat shock proteins and all the different... If we think about the adaptations that occur through exercise, and those adaptations over time improve strength, improve performance. Well, if we continually adapt ourselves to heat, we get favorable changes that make us more resilient. And so I recommend people do this.

And it could be one or two days a week, maybe do some yoga, maybe do some air squats in your apartment with the... I really like some of the stuff that you're saying right here. And these are things that I've thought about over the years. Like, oh, wow, a lot of people don't even really ever get their body below parallel, like in a squat position. We've been talking about 10-minute squats more recently. A lot of people never get their heart rate elevated. These are just really simple things that you can do. And I think you're going to end up with more problems with sleep and more problems with things that are supernatural that shouldn't take any thought like sleep really shouldn't you shouldn't take any thought but it takes a lot of thought nowadays just because of how much stuff we have uh coming at us every single day but

something just as simple as you know we talk about these 10 minute walks all the time but just a little bit way to challenge yourself just a little bit more is just to jog for a minute during that you know it doesn't have to be difficult it doesn't have to be crazy hard but that's just a great way to get that uh heart rate to bump up a little bit and then what you're saying uh falls in line so naturally with the way that things used to be i would imagine you'd go through periods of time where you're just super cold and you're shivering as we as you and i've talked about you talked about just being outside when it's cool out and uh just having your shirt off just because you're shivering as we, as you and I've talked about, you talked about just being outside when it's cool out and, uh, just having your shirt off just cause you're trying to show off how jacked you are. You're trying to create some of that, uh, therapy that you're talking about. And so

those are, those are all very, uh, simple things to, to, to try to do. I think it's very reasonable. I mean, I want to ask you real quick. Um, how about, cause I think I saw someone an Instagram or an Instagram post was sent to me, someone like boiled a pot of hot water, put it on the ground, put a blanket over their head and sat over that. How, what do you think about that? Is that a good idea or. I think it's good. Yeah. The idea is exactly what, what Mark is saying is get a little uncomfortable, right? We're so cozy. It's, you know, in the wintertime, we crank up the thermostat. When it's summertime, we crank up the AC. We don't move. I mean, we're built to have some discomfort, right? And that creates

the adaptations that make us more harder to kill, essentially. And so, I think that's perfect. Look, if you don't have access to a sauna, um, get a boiling pot of water. I mean, you know, stand, wear a sweater or a jacket on the South facing side of your apartment or complex or something, do some air squats, get super hot to where you're like, Oh crap, this totally sucks. And keep going until you maybe can't do it anymore. Right now, look, if you've never done any of this stuff and you're 400 pounds, start easy. You gotta, you know, crawl before you can walk and run it anymore. Now look, if you've never done any of this stuff and you're 400 pounds, start easy. You got to crawl before you can walk and run. So I don't want to hurt anyone here, but I do think that... My mother-in-law, for example, she grew up in the UK. She's 72 or 73 years old. And it was super cold. She lived in Toronto and it gets really cold in Canada and

Toronto. And I was talking to her about obesity. We're just talking about obesity. And it was super cold. She lived in Toronto, and it gets really cold in Canada and Toronto. And I was talking to her about obesity. We were just talking about obesity, and I was sharing with her this epidemiological study. And if you look at obesity prevalence in the southern part of the U.S. and stuff like that, it's where it's really hot. In the summer, people stay inside. They got AC on. In the winter, it never really gets that cold, right? So this temperature control,

there's a correlation between obesity prevalence and temperature control. And she was like, you know, Mike, that's so funny. Growing up, all of us were stick figure little kids. And in London, we used to have this central heating system, which was essentially like it was a tube that had some natural gas. And if your bedroom wasn't by that tube, you froze your ass off. She was like, there's never... She's like, growing up, I don't remember seeing anyone overweight. And she just got back from the UK and she was like, I see all these overweight people. And she was convincing me, right?

I just kind of planted the seed. So I think people that are older than us that have remembered what life used to be like before we had temperature control, everything will tell you that, yeah, this is a big, this is a big element. And so it's funny. So I had this hernia surgery, Mark and I were texting, I had to go to Canada actually to get it done. I got a small little inguinal hernia from stupid. I was, I was a little constipated. I, while traveling did a fast and decided to deadlift and do a bunch of a hit for us. And the next morning I look in the shower and I see this

lump there, but this was about a year ago. Anyway, so I got it fixed. The point is I couldn't do my cold plunge that I had been doing all winter long for four weeks because I had this pretty invasive procedure. And I became a little wimp about cold. Like I used to be the guy, you know, I went on this hunting trip. I would take my shirt off and stuff. Like we're in the middle of nowhere, Idaho freezing. And I literally like my acclimation, like talk about losing cold resilience gains. Like I lost it all in four weeks. Like I used to go on my cold plunge twice a day and I could barely stick my tippy toes

in there without like wimping out. And I was like, I'm like me. Holy crap. So, but dude, I just, I was like, you know what? This is a new challenge for me. So I'm going to go every damn day. And it was so, so cool to like see how I could rebuild it. And I was also at the same time I could start lifting again.

And anyway, so I want people to realize that at first this stuff sucks. Like doing a 10 minute squat at first, this stuff sucks. Like doing a 10-minute squat with weight on your back sucks, but you're going to get better over time. And so just understand that that suckiness, as you get better, that means you're making those changes, which is good. Any supplement recommendations? Supplements, yeah. Well, let's talk about that. But the other thing that's free is breath work. Are you guys doing any like Wim Hof or hyperventilation type breath work? I don't mess around with too much of that stuff, but we do practice a lot of nasal breathing.

You know, we're always trying to kind of keep it, keep it within that range. I take my mouth shut to go to sleep, uh, things like that. But the Wim Hof stuff fascinates me. I just don't know a ton about it. Yeah. It's awesome. I mean, there's a lot of great books out there. Just Breathe by Dan Brule is a good one. A buddy of mine, Josh Trent, he might be a good one for your podcast. He was the one that taught me the so-called boxed breathing. So basically, this breathwork thing, for years, I thought it was fascinating. Didn't know anything about it. It's very simple. It's a period of hyperventilation. You're breathing in as forcibly for say 25 breaths and then you hold it and you're doing some, you know,

you want to embrace like you're going to deadlift or squat, right? When you're doing the, the, you know, hyperventilation. Give us an example for like 30 seconds or so. You're really focusing not so much on your up, just like when you're, you know, if you're trying to brace, you don't want to, it's like you did a sprint or something, right? A hundred percent. And so it'd be like 25 breaths at first and towards the end, you're feeling lightheaded, right? And so then you're going to hold it and really just hold it for as long as you can and really squeeze your diaphragm to the point where you're like, oh my gosh, I can't hold this anymore.

And then continue to hold for another 10 seconds. By the end, you're going to feel like, oh, man, I can't believe I did that. You're going to be fired up. And then you do it again, one more cycle. So this hyperventilation followed by retention, you do that twice a day. And then you can do some meditation afterwards, but that is amazing for your immune system. A lot of, and the Wim Hof method has actually helped like rev you up or does it help calm you down or is it somewhere in between?

I feel, well, here's what's interesting, Mark. If you look at the clinical studies and they look at adrenaline and or adrenaline, it increases, but I feel way more calm afterwards. So- Because you got that release out maybe. Yeah. I think it's an initial fight or flight, but it's transient and it goes right back and then it has some additive benefits. But in the context of this COVID-19 thing, I think it's really timely or apropos because some of the clinical studies that have been done. So basically the Wim Hof thing, it started blowing up a few years ago.

I thought, here we go, just another biohacky thing, whatever. But I started to dive into the literature, and a group in Amsterdam had randomized individuals. I think it was 10 individuals or 20 in each group. They said, okay, here's the control group. Do the Wim Hof breathing stuff for 10 weeks. Then we're going to bring you into the lab, inject endotoxin, which is a very pro-inflamm inflammatory bacterial antigen, basically,

into the bloodstream. We're going to have you guys do your funky weird breath work in that group because you've been doing it and training for 10 weeks. The other people, you're just going to sit there and get sick. They looked at a lot of immunological markers, TNF-alpha, cytokines. Interestingly, the group that did the breathwork barely had, they had a much more favorable immunological response to this very toxic pro-inflammatory cytokine or sorry, antigen called lipopolysaccharide. So there's published data here. I know people will say, oh, breathwork, it's biohacking. There's really good, a few different studies showing that. So once I read that a couple of years ago, I was like, all right, I got to get into this. And

again, this is, we're talking about free stuff. Gym is closed. You can act, you have your breath. All of us have to breathe and it's a good time to learn it. I love when it's awesome. The app is free too, by the way, because I've done it like a few times. I started the app on my phone, but the directions and the way to do it is all on, it's on the app for free. And actually, Mike, I have a question for you about the box breathing, the Wim Hof breathing, because I was curious when I was doing it.

Does it matter if when you breathe in, do you have to breathe out through your mouth? Because when I see videos, it's in through the nose, out through the mouth, or can you do it all through the nose? Like, what is the best idea? Because I was looking that up. I couldn't find anything. He says to breathe out of whatever hole you want he's even said your asshole yeah nice you know what i'm not the expert here i'll defer to to whim on that um i think the idea with this is you want to really

create a hyperventilation state and change the gas ratio. So there's obviously all the benefits to nasal breathing that we're trying to promote in day-to-day living. But this is kind of one of those situations where you almost want to focus a little bit about mouth breathing because you want to just move as much gas as possible. And the idea is you're trying to deplete your body basically of oxygen. And again, that's going to cause capillary density to improve. It's going to cause a shift in bicarbonate and all these different things. And then your nervous system is going to respond to that. And that's what you're trying to improve. But it's a great question, Nsema. So then what I'll do is after that hyperventilation followed by retention,

two cycles, 25 breaths, hold. You can hold for basically about two minutes. I've gotten up to two minutes. Then I'll do the box breathing, which is kind of a Mark Devine thing. Dan Brulee's book, Just Breathe, talks about it. So it's inhale through the nose for 10, hold for 10, exhale for five, hold for five, repeat. So it's a box breathing, but you're inhaling very slowly. You're holding for 10 while you have the oxygen, and then exhaling and then pausing and repeating. So with that, I do all through my nose. So after you kind of deplete the system with this hyperventilation, you do that twice, then you can do five or 10 minutes. It's more meditative. then you can do five or 10 minutes. It's more meditative. And guys, you'll feel next level calm after this. I mean, it's like, it's, it's really powerful. So hyperventilation stuff's

probably great before a workout, right? I would think so to get fired up and to be focused. You know, I think that's, I don't know the mechanism of how those salts, ammonia salts work, but I think it's driving norepi and epi, and this is what the hyperventilation does. So I'd imagine. Is Dan Burleigh the guy from Art of Breath, by the way? Yeah, I think that's him. Art of Breath. Okay. I got his book somewhere behind there. Yeah, the book. And what's cool about this is I think people might be writing down exactly, wait, did you say, 25 seconds. The thing is, you got to figure out what's going to work for you.

Right. Like, so I and he lays it out. He's like, hey, you could do the Wim Hof thing. You could do this. Here's what this person does. Here's what that person does. So I like the idea of like kind of picking your path as long as it's based on the same framework, whether it's a box breathing approach or this hyperventilation followed by retention. So Wim Hof recommends doing that hyperventilation for two minutes,

which for me is a lot. I start to feel it in my traps and my neck because I'm breathing so damn hard. But I have friends that are like, no, no, no, just do 25 breaths, then hold. So again, it's trying to figure out what's going to work for you. But again, just to drive this point home during this pandemic is your breath affects your immune system. It affects your inflammatory state. And incidentally, again, if we were to talk about breath work three months ago, a lot of people would have probably stopped listening to this and said, so you guys are a bunch of whack jobs. But there was this ICU doctor in New York. He got 5 million views on a video describing how to do what we're doing because he's in ICU. He's saying, hey, look, my patients can't freaking breathe. So I'm having them do breath work.

And again, three months ago, people would have thought you guys are a bunch of nut jobs. And because this medical doctor is in ICU, he knows people can barely get enough oxygen. He was recommending they do this box breathing. And everyone's like, yeah, doc, great idea. Thanks for sharing. It's like, we've been talking about this forever. It's just the timing maybe wasn't right. Yeah. And in terms of breathing, I mean, they've talked about these things for hundreds of years, really. I mean, with childbirth, right? Like you breathe a certain way when you give birth i know i breathe a certain way when i have a monstrous dump you know i gotta really i gotta really try to concentrate on something else so it doesn't uh you know it feels like it's ripping me in the two different parts there you know

exactly man you're ahead of it see so i've even seen seen – oh, go ahead, Andrew. No, I was just saying, just to kind of play devil's advocate for all these methods to try to just become a better, healthier person to combat this virus. And the answer is it's never too late. But is it too late to really try to attempt to go that route when the virus is being so – it's just running rampant, right? Like, would a vaccine come quicker than somebody getting in shape to fight the virus? Andrew, amazing question. I'm going to hedge my bets on yes, because look, the vaccine, they have to go through a lot of phase one, phase two clinical trials and need to develop the vaccine. Keep in mind, the influenza vaccine is only 43% effective, right? And they've had years to dial this sucker in, right?

And there's multiple strains of this novel human coronavirus, at least three known strains. It's mutating. So, of course, I'm very biased because I like to promote health. But I do think that if people make small decisions, walking after meals, doing some breath work, starting to do weight training, even if it's only body weight resistant type stuff, they can make sweeping changes. We haven't yet really talked about fasting. But if you look at the physiology of fasting, just doing a time restricted feeding protocol, not even changing your diet, just eating between, say, 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. or 10 a.m. and 4 p.m., studies have shown that you're changing the expression of genes, right?

Not even restricting any calories or changing what you're eating. And those studies have been done in a very short-term period of time. So I do think, Andrew, based upon a lot of the different studies that have been elucidated up to now, that it's not too late. Now, if you get diagnosed, if you get infected today, is doing a cold plunge and breath work, is that going to ensure that you're not going to get sick? No one knows that. But I think because most of us are socially distancing ourselves anyway, we're going to be on lockdown probably at least till May 1st.

Hopefully, things will selectively be opened up after that. I think in the next two weeks, if people do some things, things can change quick. I mean, you guys know this from lifting weights, man. Just a couple of weeks, people can change their physique. And so, we need to realize all the adaptations that occur through diet, through fasting, are similar to the adaptations that occur through exercise, the mitochondrial density, the different intracellular enzymes. So my answer, and of course, I'm very biased, is yes, we do have lifestyle change.

Lifestyle change is really effective. And on the flip side, lack of lifestyle changes. Studies have shown just going to McDonald's and having a Big Mac with a soda and having French fries, they've looked at the immunological response in real time. It's off the charts. All the pro-inflammatory genes go through the roof with just one meal. So we need to realize that, again, we're not perfect. I like to implement the 80-20 principle, tell people to have a little bit of fudge factor in their diet so that they can feel human. But I'm not a huge fan of fast food and processed junk. So the flip side is also true. We can go... And look, I mean, I had this

hernia procedure I was telling you guys about. I was in the worst shape of my life, four weeks of not training, man. I had exercise bands, the red red rogue bands it's all i could do no more than 17 pounds of and my daughter we were screwing around in the backyard on the trampoline she's like dad you're fat i'm like oh not that i'm overweight but my belly i started to get a little belly man of you know so these things are the pendulum swings very quick in both directions did that lead you to eat more cookies or less cookies? Dude, I was like, no, because I was having like a little bit of whiskey at four o'clock. I'm like, you know, I'm having some whiskey. My wife was making cookies.

And when she said that to me, I was like, yeah, she's right, man. I looked at my belly and I was like, I can't even see my abs anymore. I'm like, we've had a lot of people on the podcast, especially recently. I've heard people just saying it like in passing and we never really touch upon it, but I think women are evil people. Somebody else we just had on the show recently, they're like, yeah, my lady's like, hey, let's just lay in bed all day and eat pizza. And why is that? Do you get trapped by this, Mike? You fall victim to this sometimes? You know, what's funny is, so my wife is super disciplined. She'll make the cookies and all the junk and the ice cream, but she doesn't eat it.

I'm the one eating the crap. Yeah. So it's, but for her, it's like a release. Like she gets like, some people have different ways of de-stressing and for her, like going into the kitchen and all that is her thing. But, um, yeah, uh, it's dude, if I didn't lift weights, I would be definitely overweight. Like there's, there's no question about it. Um, and so that's why I do lift weight. Remember, um, who was the guy in that, in that movie? Who's more, who's more likely to pull each other out of their game though? Your wife, is she going to pull you

out of your game and be like, Hey, let's just do this. Or is it going to be you? It's going to be me. Yeah. No, she's up. She's up earlier than me and hitting the weight. She's kicking your ass, man. What are you doing over there? I know, you know, the thing is she's really good about her sleep. Like I get up, you know, I'll stay up sometimes till 11, like reading scientific articles and stuff because the family goes to bed. So that's when it's quiet for me to do research. And it's a really bad habit that literally just today I got my epigenetic age back. It's a cool test you guys should check out called MyDNAge. Have you heard about these Horvath clocks and these epigenetic clocks?

Is this accurate? I haven't heard a ton about this. Yeah, man, it's super accurate. So yeah, we've all been around people who, let's say they're 50, but they look like they're 40 or at their 50, they look like they're 60. We're like, what's up with that? And it's because our cells can advance their age or decrease their age based upon our lifestyle. So I just got mine back. I'm 37 and it said I was 40, which is not bad, right? But I was like, damn, to me, that was like, you know what? Like I'm preaching all this stuff. I would think that it should be, you know, if I was 30, if it said I'm 35, I'd be like, okay, I'm doing things right. But, you know, the point is there's these really medically and scientifically validated markers within

our genome, specifically our epigenome, called these epigenetic methylation patterns. And they've been quantified using tens of thousands of blood and various people that have various diseases, for example, and stuff like that. So anyway, we can now test these, which I think are really cool. You guys can go to mydnh.com. I'm not being paid to say this at all, but I think it's a really neat test to kind of see where we're at. And what's unique is we can modify our biologic age with our lifestyle interventions. And so where I was going with this is I know what I'm doing wrong.

It's staying up late. My wife's circadian rhythms are much tighter than mine. I'm up doing all this research and all this stuff, which I know is stupid. So anyway, the point of sharing this story is that data made me realize, you know what? I have to change my behavior because I know that it's not serving me. And so I think sometimes labs, a lot of people want to run all these labs, but if you can't really do anything with the data, I don't think it's helpful. But in this case, for me, it was really kind of the nail in the coffin to go, all right, Mike, you got to go to bed at eight or nine, like your wife, because otherwise you're going to, you know, you're going

to start to look older than she is and look older than you really need to be. So yeah, it's super interesting. You know, like you alluded to fasting a little bit and you talked a little bit about it but i want you to kind of see if we can uh dig into because we've talked about fasting on this podcast before but you were talking about it in accordance to the immune system so what were you what were you talking about there yeah well you know so fasting up regulates this process this intracellular cleanup process called autophagy. And basically that is intimately involved in our immune system as well.

And it gets into kind of the weeds of biochemistry that maybe we don't really want to talk about. But the main benefit of fasting in this particular context, because we've already talked about chronic inflammation and how low-grade inflammation precipitates and can kind of potentiate deleterious effects of being exposed to pathogens like the coronavirus or influenza, right? And the thing that we need to understand is with fasting, we can decrease our chronic inflammation. Oh, I went away. Now I'm back. Okay. So with fasting, we can reduce our levels of inflammation. So that to me, I think is the best attribute or best, the most compelling case to consider fasting. Now with athletes, of course, we need to consider that aggressive fasting can compromise exercise performance. So I just think it's, we need to always keep in mind what are our goals, what are our short-term goals and long-term goals.

If you're training for a meet or a particular event, I'm not suggesting hammering down the fasting dial because it could potentially affect your performance. You might be leaner, right? But your top-end strength might be compromised. But the basic premise here with time-restricted feeding or intermittent fasting is we're reducing our levels of chronic inflammation. And again, we can get into the weeds of autophagy and mTOR and all that sort of stuff. But I think that's probably the main reason that fasting can be beneficial in this particular context. I also think that at this time, it's great to just kind of have a

schedule because you really don't have like a set schedule. And so maybe, uh, you know, maybe during this time you can just say, I'm just going to wait till after 12 o'clock and then I'm going to, you know, start, start eating. And that way you just have, you have some sort of routine or schedule that way. You're not just looking in the fridge and hanging out in your pantry, uh, for the entire day, just nonstop onslaught of eating. So maybe it can help you partition out your calories a little bit better. A hundred percent. I think that's great. I mean, I think it's easier to control when we eat as opposed to controlling like how much, uh, you know, I mean, who's ever had a third of a cookie and felt satisfied, you know, you're going to be like third of a cookie and felt satisfied you know you're gonna

be like dude i'm gonna crush the whole damn cookie now that i've had one might as well have three you know so i think when you have these hard stops on when you eat and when you don't it's a lot easier for people so um that's what i suggest and mark like what you're saying is is just yeah so so whatever the window works for you um Some people recommend fasting in the morning and training on an empty stomach. I find that I generally can have a little bit more power output and strength if I have a little fuel in me. So it's just trying to figure out what's going to work for you. But if nothing else, right? Some time-restricted feeding.

So eating, maybe not having anything until 10 a.m. and cutting it off earlier. I used to do competitive biking and cycling and stuff like that. And the mantra there was eat early and sleep early. So some people that do this intermittent fasting, they have their biggest meal like 8 p.m. I don't generally think that's ideal because it starts to compromise your sleep. So for athletes, I like to push the calories and food intake earlier and start the fast earlier.

And again, getting back to what the science science shows and, and Seema's question is, you know, uh, time restricted feeding, not changing calorie intake affected inflammation in a favorable manner and longevity genes too, which is good. Do you track your sleep at all? You know, I used to wear the Oura ring. I've had it forever. And then I don't know what happened to it. It just broke on me about two weeks ago.

So I need to buy a new one. When you were tracking your sleep, did you find anything positively impacted your sleep? Like any routines in particular? I myself struggle with getting enough deep sleep. Yeah, for me,

eating earlier really helped. So if I can have dinner, ideally by six, go to bed around nine. It's going to be amazing for my sleep. I do like a little whiskey now and again. I like some red wine. Unfortunately, those two compounds do not improve my sleep in any way. So I just have to be mindful of that. So that's, again, that's why data and tracking is cool.

I think a lot of people, we think that's why data and tracking is cool. I think a lot of people, we think certain things are going in the right direction, but if you're not really tracking, you don't really know. So I think that's helpful. Um, let's see what else, um, yeah, we weed, um, and alcohol do not assist with your sleep, but everyone kind of feels as they do. I would argue though, that probably a, um, uh, probably a minimal amount, I don't think is really going to hurt you that much, even though I know there's a lot of research and a lot of the leading sleep experts in the, in the world. But I do have to say that like, when you feel that something makes you feel a little bit better, I also am a believer in that.

So I would, I would say if you, if you have a glass of wine, I don't think it's probably going to impair. I would just say that if you have a problem with sleep at the moment and you are having a drink before you go to bed, then maybe get rid of it to see if that's the perpetrator, you know? Totally. Or have it earlier, right? So 10 AM, just start drinking your wine. And then, no, I'm just kidding. No, but just but just you know if you're having wine at 8 p.m and you like your glass of red wine i have no problem with people having a little bit of wine but maybe have it at five or six right so your body your liver has time to detoxify and get rid of those you know uh acetaldehyde and all these other compounds are created from ethanol metabolism yeah what about staying asleep? Because I don't have an issue at all passing out. Like I look at my pillow and I start to fall asleep.

But, and I do try to drink less towards the end of the day as far as water. I don't drink alcohol. But so I still wake up two, three times, not three times, like one or two times a night to go pee because I just like like I'm going to like explode. Like I even like in my dreams, I'm dreaming about like, dude, I really got to go pee. And I've often been scared like, oh, shit, I think I actually did. But thankfully, so far, I've only peed on myself once in the past year. But other than maybe drinking even less water towards the end of the day, do you have any tips for staying asleep?

I would look at maybe your salt intake and electrolytes. Have you tinkered with that some? Yeah, I've noticed that when I drink, when I take more electrolytes, I actually do pee a little bit less. But everything like I haven't been since the lockdown, I haven't really been taking too many cause I, my output hasn't been very high. So I kind of feel, I feel cheap if I'm not working hard and I'm taking electrolytes. But as far as like salting my foods and stuff, I'm still pounding a ton of salt. So I'm getting it that way. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, I mean, if you have access to a sauna, I mean, one way to make sure that you're not, because you'll be a little dehydrated before you go to bed is the sauna. But in that situation, I would ensure that, yeah, you're not drinking a lot before bed. Get your electrolytes and salt up. Tinker around with that.

The other thing I was going to suggest is some blood sugar support. I've had a lot of clients over the years that they get up at two in the morning and they're wide awake. Give them a little berberine and things like that. And they're sleeping through the night because what can happen is, you know, if you're one of the things that our stress hormones do is help us increase glucose. So if you're having blood sugar issues and there's some up and down and stuff like that, and you have a little bit of a valley or a drop in your blood glucose, you can release cortisol and noradrenaline. Then you're going to wake up and be like, Oh, I got to pee. I got to get up. What time is it? Oh my God. It's only three. What the hell?

Right. So a little berberine can be helpful. Berberine is one of my go-tos for blood sugar support. So, but in that situation with going to the bathroom, I don't know that that would totally be Andrew, like the thing, but tinker with the electrolytes and see. Yeah. What have you been doing? Oh, go ahead. No, as I say, it's almost like, you know, when you're fasting for a long period of time and you just, like, no matter what you do, you just end up running to the bathroom.

Well, I used to find out for me personally, like, I pee a ton and I fast every day. So, I don't know, maybe tinkering with my meal timing might actually help, you know, the nighttimeinkering with my meal timing might actually help the nighttime. What have you been doing for exercise lately, Mike? Just getting back to five days a week of like a body, kind of a bro bodybuilding split. I'm probably not going to do any more powerlifting meets for a while.

Haven't done that in a couple of years. So yeah, just trying to... At the gym, yeah, our home gym. So we have, you know, a rogue rack. We got, uh, like this rogue Nordic thing. I got a reverse hyper and a belt squat and some dumbbells and some kettlebells. So I've been slowly accumulating stuff, um, over the years on, uh, so stupid for productivity, but I'll look on Facebook marketplace, like two to three days a week just to see what's out there. And if I see something good, I'm like,

I might want to get it. So I've been slowly accumulating things. So yeah, we have enough gear here. So I try to hit legs and chest twice a week. I'll hit back twice and then shoulders once and triceps and arms. So yeah, do some, a little bit of, you have an assault bike or anything like that, or any sort of cardio piece, or you just try to, but bodybuilding kind of is a cardiovascular, uh, workout as it is, but your heart rate's elevated the entire time pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. For, so for cardio behind our house, we have a bunch of hills. So we go hiking pretty

much every day. Um, and I'll, I'll race my daughter up a hill, just like build in some totally random bursts where to create some oxygen debt. So I'll find a hill, go, let's race to the tree. And so we're both like totally gassed. Um, so I'll do that. And then I have a mountain bike too. So I'll do some sprints a couple of days a week on that sucker. So, um, yeah, but I, I, maybe it's my bias.

I've never been a big fan of CrossFit. I know people that just thrive on it, but when I'm lifting weights, it's like, I want to train hypertrophy and strength. If I'm going to do cardio, it's going to be on a cardio piece of equipment. Again, I could be wrong on this. I know some people do really well, supersetting everything, but I just, for me, I haven't found that that helps me as a hard gainer put on muscle. How are your kids handling this? How old are they? I just have one daughter.

She's seven. She's loving it, dude. I mean, we're, we're guard. So we have chickens, turkeys and all this crap. We have garden beds. We're always screwing around the backyard. We were, um, one day there was like no chicken to be had at the grocery store, no chicken eggs. And I'm like, look, if this thing goes really South,

I want to have a side hustle that I could like, you know, if the internet goes down, I mean, so anyway, I'm, I'm, we have a bunch of baby chickens, we have eggs in the incubator. So I'm like, I can, I can sell chickens on the side and she's helping me. So we're turning the eggs every morning. We have these baby chicks outside. So our relationship is better than it's ever been. And look, I think sports and structure are great for kids. I don't think we should be doing this perpetuity,

but I'm trying to find the silver lining in all this craziness. So for people with kids, if they have flexible jobs, I mean, I have way less stress, if they have flexible jobs, I mean, I have way less stress, man. I can't hear the freeway anymore from my house. Like the, the, um, I can see the stars and the moon way better than ever. Like it's kind of crazy. Like this whole thing, like there's a lot of suckiness, no question. But if you look for the good in it, there is some good to be had. How do you handle questions that she has?

You know, are you just kind of hitting them head on and just kind of answering them as if she's an adult? How are you explaining some of this to her? Yeah, you know, she kind of gets it, but she's wondering why she can't see her friends, why she hasn't seen her cousins and all that sort of stuff. And she gets it. She just calls it the Corona, you know? And so we'll joke around, you know, if she's, if she's being, if she's like being snap snappy, I'll be like, I'll give you coronavirus. You better knock it off.

And she's like, so we just joke around with it, you know? So she gets it. So, I mean, she, she understands it to an extent, I think. And so she's, she's wondering why she can't see her grandma. Right. So they have a good relationship and all that. But yeah, it's, it's an interesting time. You know, I used to think that I wanted more kids, but after this and who knows what, like it, I'm actually kind of thinking,

I don't know. I mean, this, if the world's going to change and what happens to our freedoms, like what now that the police have used drones to kick people off the beach and stuff, like, are we going to go back to life as it used to? Are we going to hop on an airplane and be able to go to Mexico? Like, I don't know what, I hope that we can do these things in the next 24 months or whatever, but is life going to be different? These are interesting questions to think about.

Yeah. My, my kids are, are teenagers. And, uh, that's my concern is like, what, what's their future going to look like? You know, what, what's it going to look like for them? Like if this was to, you know, I don't foresee that this is going to happen for a long time, but if this, uh, even happens every three years or something like that, it's kind of, it's, it's a different world. And so it's hard for me to, uh, understand what that will look like. Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's crazy to even think about, you know, I used to have aspirations to create a small gym just to have, you know,

to be able to train at how people come do podcasts. And now that the government's decided or has deemed like what's essential or not, it's like, I think it's going to really affect how people think about creating their dream or side hustle businesses, like create a little cafe. You're like, who would want to create a cafe right now? Because like the government can just turn it on or turn it off. So I feel like, again, that should have been part of these conversations as to how aggressively we clamp down the economy, because you're going to really... America, the land of the free, you can create as much or as little as you want, right? This life is your oyster. And now it's

like, I don't know, I feel like we're kind of pivoting a little bit more towards some government control, social control. And it's kind of scary to me. Have you been enjoying watching my race to zero followers? Yeah, man. But dude, oh my gosh, when you had Dr. Batar on the comments. What are your thoughts on Dr. Batar? I'm just curious what you think about that, man. You know, so I've known of him for a long time. I used to work as a consultant for a company called Biotics and I know he does a lot of speaking for them. So he's been in this game for a while. But man, I mean, so I didn't know. Anyway, so I've watched your video and it blew up and the comments were amazing. Oh my God, people are freaking out.

It's like 1300 comments or something. It was crazy. Here's the thing that I've noticed, this correlation between individuals that are really dogmatic about calorie counting. If you say anything to the contrary of what's being conveyed from the conventional medicine or media, they flip out. So if you talk about vaccines, if you talk about, if you just raise any conspiracy question, even without suggesting that they flip, they lose our shit. So it was so interesting to see that those comments and, you know,

Paul Saladino's comments, which is our total, he's putting his neck out on the line by suggesting as a medical doctor that we should just go out there and spread this sucker around to develop herd immunity. I mean, I give him a lot of credit for, for that, but yeah, the Dr. Batar, I don't know what to think about him. I don't think he's foolish, full of crap. But do I believe everything that come that he said? And I hope it's not true. I mean, the idea that this thing was made in a lab and stuff like that, I mean, that's pretty freaky.

But then when I started to think about it, life insurance companies and this and that, I was like, wow, I mean, it seems plausible. I would like to think that people are better than that, you know, that run our country in this. And, but then I look at history and, and, you know, people have done really mean crap to each other over the years. Right. So it's like, it's scary to think about, man. So I don't know what to think. I want to believe that it's not true. So. Well, I think it's a, it's a good thing to explore in your head and just to say that could be a possibility let me look into this more and i think that's the best part of it is you look into it more you acquire as much knowledge as you can and you can say well with the most

certainty that i have at the moment i can say i don't believe that you know that kind of thing dude 100 yeah i think it just adds another like tick on the bullshit meter you know like it's sort of like uh when you know somebody mentions like you know uh black teslas and all of a sudden you see black tesla teslas everywhere you go when somebody like batar says like some outlandish shit that you know you do listen to them but you're like man that's crazy but then the next time something like this happens in the government or whoever they are says something and you're like wait that sounds a little iffy so like if it just kind of helps you you know uh think a little bit differently but also just put stuff like on your radar to like

just be more aware you know so whether you believe it not, it's going to like affect the way you see the world, you know? And I think for that, I think it is super healthy almost no matter what the, uh, the, the content is. Right. Because we can go down these rabbit holes and, and, and what a lot of people talk about in decision-making is we're constantly, our brains are wired to just seek out more information about what we already know. It's called the confirmation bias. So we're not looking for our opinion necessarily to be challenged unless we have the mindset that both of you just talked about, right? So I think it's good to have these things exposed to us so we can then say, well, what would have to be true if that were seriously the situation. And so what I wanted to give you

my perspective on this, if the FDA or the CDC starts coming after companies for promoting antibody testing, that would add to this conspiracy theory because you're like, well, wait, you don't want people to know if they have antibodies so that they sit on their couch and wait for the vaccine. That would be a red flag. And I've, Stan Efferding just texted me the other day. He goes, dude, I tried to get my antibodies tested in Vegas and the FDA told them they couldn't do it. And I was like, oh man, here it comes. So if in two weeks, these companies are being forced to not do antibody testing, then Dr. Batar might be seriously onto something because that would be a major red flag.

Now, people might say, well, of course, the FDA is trying to regulate this because they don't want false information and this and that. But we need to keep in mind something. And this happened here at the University of Washington. The CDC tried to shut down the first woman who was going to offer a commercially available COVID-19 test. And you wonder, wait, this was in January. You're like, why would the CDC want her to not do this? And so maybe it was a male, I don't know if it's, but it was a scientist at University of Washington who happened to be running a clinical trial on the influenza virus vaccine and was able to come up with the methodologies to be able to test this novel human

coronavirus and said, hey, look, we're starting to see cases or people are becoming symptomatic. Chinese individuals in this Washington area wrote a letter to the FDA. They didn't reply to her for like five days. And so this is, again, these articles are all over the internet. And it makes you wonder like, well, wait, why wouldn't they take this seriously? I mean, look at the economic costs that this has had and 16 million people without jobs. So this person overnighted samples and then the FDA was super slow. They kept telling her or him or her, no, don't do it, don't do it. And finally, on like February 10th, when more and more people started dying, they were like,

okay, fine, you can use this. But in that period of time, they could have tested a lot of people and isolated them or whatever. So there is some inconsistencies here. And people are talking about maybe, if you look at a vaccine launch plan, I have this Instagram post that I'm going to wait on, but it's ready to go. First of all, you delay testing. You scare the crap out of people. You highlight other countries and cities that are really bad. So you promote Spain, you promote Italy, right? You highlight New York and say, oh, this is really terrible. You don't talk about California or any other states, Idaho, where there's a lot of cases, but there's not a lot of deaths. You scare the crap out of people. You tell them they can't go to weddings or parties or do anything. You drive

home the PPE. You overestimate the deaths, right? It was going to be millions of deaths. It's been 22,000. Again, 22,000 lives lost. Don't want to diminish them, but more people die in auto accidents. Way more people. 679,000 people die from heart disease every year, right? So anyway, I'm not saying that is the idea or the plan, but you can really, if you look at the cigarette industry, they lied about the health effects of smoking and their revenues were only about $600 million annually. I love football, but the NFL continually kind of downplays head trauma. They're a $9 billion a year industry. The vaccine sector alone, $26 billion. So if you create a vaccine that is used by 300 million people in the US and how many

other people internationally, we're talking big money here. So again, I'm not promoting this conspiracy theory, but human beings have lied or fudged or been a little incongruent about other things. Could that be a similar situation going on here? Time will tell. Yeah, it's too late. I'm going to cut that up and say, Mike Mutzel agrees with Dr. Batar, and then that whole clip right there. Make me look like an asshole? Be like, Lane Norton, please share your professional opinion.

Lane Norton's, we need to have Lane Norton's trigger meter on the actual screen and have it just explode at the end, you know? Oh, no. You know, but real quick, I mean, Mike, I mean, you've heard of the Tuskegee syphilis study, right? Oh, actually. Okay, so what I learned about this, I'm like, that can't be true. Oh, okay. So what I learned about this, I'm like, that can't be true. But it was in like the 1930s and 1940s. They took a group of like 600 poor black men that were like sharecroppers, I think 300 or something of them had syphilis, and 200 and whatever them did it right. When the when penicillin came out, which was the treatment for syphilis at the time, to continue studying these men, they were told that they were given free health care.

And they were told they were given the penicillin, but they weren't because the researchers wanted to see how syphilis over the lifetime of an individual would affect them. So they were told that they were given it, but they weren't. Some of these men went insane, blind, etc., passed it to their spouses and 19 of their children. Some of these men went insane, blind, etc., passed it to their spouses and 19 of their children. But it went on until the 60s when a whistleblower was like, oh, snap, this is actually what's going on. They weren't given any treatment. And they purposefully let these individuals have syphilis for the duration of their lives until it was found out 30 years later. After learning about that, I was just like, okay, you know, I mean, you can't just say all these conspiracies are true, but you also can't really say for a fact that something like that couldn't happen. It's in our history. We've done evil shit. So, you know. Yeah, we need to be skeptical always, I think. And we need to look at what does someone have to gain by promoting something? Dr. Fauci, Bill Gates, what do they have to gain by saying, you're not going to go to a wedding or a concert or a seminar for the next 24 to 36 months?

Is he trying to plant this in our heads so that when the vaccine comes out, we're going to be like, yes, I want to get this vaccine because I want to go to my concert. And again, I'm not saying that they're evil, nefarious people, but we, you know, if a car salesman is trying to really pitch me on the Hyundai, whatever, why are they so, you know, suggestive or forcing me in that direction? I used to be in sales, right? So I get it, right?

So we always need to keep in mind, what do people have to gain from promoting different pieces of information. So anyway, Mike, the whole reason why we had you on the show is so you could give us your synopsis and what you found the most intriguing about tiger King. So if you could kind of give us a little rundown on what you thought,

if you had a chance to see it, I haven't, I haven't seen it. I'm seeing the correlation between smart people and not watching i think mike has mike values human life more than we expected that what is this the uh the guy that got eaten by the tiger tiger in florida is that i don't know yeah he's well he's uh he's a guy that has a bunch of uh he he has a bunch of tigers and they they did a like a documentary series on him and it's just it's just it's just

pure uh wildness and pure like white trash but it's it's a great way to waste a lot of time and to probably kill a lot of brain cells no dude you learn from all these different things um was this the guy that his wife fed him to the tiger that meme she's yeah he's a part of it yeah carol baskin that's just one of the characters that's how i know about pop culture is the memes i don't because i don't watch a lot of this but when i see a meme circulate i'm like oh okay i think i know what's going on in the pop culture it's very smart of you it probably like uh it'll probably mess up all your all your normal uh intelligent thoughts that you have maybe i don't know man maybe i need more of this but do you guys ever watch black mirror yeah i feel like this is a we're living a black mirror episode right oh no no seriously it's

crazy man like that yeah it definitely feels like a movie for sure. Like this is some crazy shit that's happening. I mean, and then of course, all the top movies on Netflix right now are movies that are very similar to what's going on right now. It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. So then if it's not Tiger King, are you watching anything right now? I'm not, man.

Yeah, I just, here's what I do watch. A few of your viewers might get annoyed with this, but I like to watch the live White House briefings on replay. I like to watch Trump and not that I'm necessarily the biggest Trump fan, but I like to, people, everyone's saying now it's Trump's fault. The reason why we're here is because Trump did this, Trump did that. And so I just like to see, okay, when this dude's live, how does he respond? And I look at the media, how they treat him. And it's just, it's crazy to me. Like some of the, you know, so I almost feel like part of this whole thing is like, hey,

how can we make Trump look like a total idiot? Because we didn't get him impeached. So let's, you know, make him look like he crashed the economy and screwed up on this. I'm not saying that is but the media doesn't seem to ask any questions like hey those 473 ventilators why didn't they go to this they're asking what did you do during the month of february like you said you weren't going to let the governors open up when they want it's just like it's all these semantics and so i do watch that and i because i'm trying to see when people are

under i couldn't imagine the amount of stress these politicians are right now it's like how are they handling themselves and how are the media that are then taking that how are they twisting the stories and changing the narratives and so you know um i think that's if you guys haven't watched it it's super entertaining, if nothing else. Because the media, the questions they ask him is just absolutely ridiculous. I love watching that stuff. He's hammering those guys. No, it is something that's great to watch. And I like to watch it.

I am a fan. I am a supporter. I did vote for him. But I also like to watch it and watch. Sometimes he reacts very poorly. And sometimes I'm like, well, he's just, he just got like triggered by that. And he probably, as a president, he'd probably be better off, you know,

just kind of going in a different direction, but that's kind of what makes him the way that he is, you know? And some of this stuff, you know, with like the way he got voted in and, you know, whether there was like a Russian conspiracy and you know whether there's like a russian conspiracy you know associated with all that it's like it's it's all very interesting because they still haven't done anything about how you get voted in and being voted in can still be a popularity contest so you know our next president after him could be the rock you know the next president after him could be uh kim kardashian i mean we don't we don't know like it could continue to work out the way that it's been been working out it's

it's just uh but i like watching that too i love watching his reaction to people and he's he does he does an interesting thing where when someone says something to him you know he'll just say like fake news or he'll, he'll say something that's unrelated to the question that they ask him. And I think that's what frustrates them so much is that they get really upset of the fact that he's not like necessarily taking the question on like head on, he'll start talking about something else. And he's definitely, he's definitely very like narcissistic, he'll say, I, I, I, I did this. I did that.

Like, hey, let's not forget. I did this. And it's, you would, you would like the president to say we, you know, a little bit more of that. Although you are seeing a little bit of that from him now. But yeah, it's, it's comedy. Watch, watching him up there. Yeah. Well, my wife and I will turn it on and we'll just laugh our asses off.

I'll fast forward through some of it and wait till the end. And the questions, I mean, one reporter, they were talking about the ramifications to China for giving us false data. And she was like, well, you didn't tell us what the ramifications are. He goes, you'll be the last person I tell about what I'm going to do with China, right? And we were just dying. No, that's so not what you would expect to see, but this was a woman that's all, I don't know who she represents MSNBC or CNN, but she just always hammered him.

Crawling up his ass all day long. He just can't handle it anymore. Probably. Dude, that, I don't know. I mean, we're all on social media. We get hate comments here and there. that i don't know i mean we're all on social media we get hate comments here and there how does he not get bothered by this i have no idea but it would start to it would start to wear on me i think unless you just like totally offload that responsibility to someone else and you never see that crap but it would be tough yeah he's a fun follow on twitter too did you see his tweet about like i have the like it was recent he was, I'm having the best ratings or whatever, as far as this Corona thing's concerned. He literally tweeted that. He's so fun. He's super funny, man.

He was funny. I like how he just shakes the tree. You know, he's controversial on purpose, you know? So. Mike, thanks so much for your time. Where can people find you? Sure. Yeah. I'm on Instagram, metabolic underscore underscore Mike and my YouTube channel is high intensity health. So thanks for having me on guys. It was fun hanging out. Hopefully in the future we can see each other within a six feet radius and lift weights maybe, or something like that. Awesome, man. Have a great rest of your day. Cheers guys. Appreciate it. See you. My pleasure. Love that. Mike Motso. So awesome so awesome yeah he was great man that was

that was really cool yeah i like the lane thing he mentioned i just couldn't not laugh at that the lane meter it was funny because he was like you know people that count macros and it's like well that's a very specific group of people that you're talking about right now like oh wait i know who he's he's referring to but also makes a lot of sense i'm pretty sure he's not uh he's not gonna sign off the podcast right now and go play xbox right like he's not gonna watch tiger king like he's always on to something new you know that guy's just awesome, if he's not watching Tiger King, what the hell does he do with his time? Just learning shit.

You can really tell something about a person's character if they haven't seen Tiger King. There's something wrong with them. I don't know if you guys have had this happen with Netflix, but because of this series and because of how drawn out it is, I watched Tiger King. I probably watched up until the last episode and never watched the last episode.

I've done that with a couple of things now where I just like lose interest. I watched a thing that was about. It was about drugs and it was about this woman that was testing. She was testing a lot of drugs in a lab that they got from like the boston police department and she was just taking all this shit right through right through her own nose basically um ended up being this giant like conspiracy and stuff but i watched like three things of it and i'm like i'm just i just don't care what happens now i'm done it's happened to me a bunch you're crazy mark like you're legitimately crazy i couldn't go through something and not know what how it ends

i can't handle it i'm like you know what i just don't even give a fuck anymore dude uh well i'm kind of i guess it's safe to say i'm on the opposite um i will watch an episode or two and be like this is. But let me just see what happens episode three. And then, well, I'm not going to stop now. And I'll not force myself, but then I'm stuck. So, Ozark is an amazing show. I thought the first two, three episodes were so boring. I think that was the show, at least.

And now they're on season three. Well, it depends. If it's a series like that i would say that's a little bit different i'm talking about like these limited series where it's like a one-off it's like like tiger king like it's like a tiger king is not going to come come back i don't think i mean who the fuck knows we can only hope it doesn't come back well they did just release like a follow-up episode which right i've already watched yeah i got some advice for people you know get it get your phone out set a stopwatch time you know for you know like eight to ten minutes

or so that's plenty of time to pick something you should be able to do it even faster than that but like i'll just say let's just say like eight minutes because you're going to be sifting through that shit forever you know it takes for to try to agree on like what because you're going to be sifting through that shit forever you know it takes for to try to agree on like what movie you're going to watch like whether you know if it's with yourself and it's a lot easier to pick but if it's with somebody else or the more people that you involve like us as a family i'm like all right we're setting a fucking timer and we're picking something and the thing is is don't be too scared about what you pick because you could just, you could turn it off if you don't like it. You know, it's not like, it's not, it's not like you, you, it's not like you went to the movie theater and you, there's,

it's an arranged time, you know, and then you're, you're stuck in the movie theater, you paid for it. You may as well just sit there. It's kind of, it's kind of a crap move to like, you know, sneak into the other movie theaters and stuff like that so but in this case you can just you could just turn it off and and start watching something different so try that we did that last night and we ended up watching a good movie although me with the remembering the names of the movies never happened but yeah we watched a good movie together last night oh it's called uh like the horse girl or something like that i know what you're talking about i haven't seen it but i know it's it's strange but we uh we liked it we watched uh code eight last night how was it it was it was okay it was it was okay one thing i

wonder is like how are how are these movies ever going to stay in your head? You know, like, it used to like, you know, you want a movie to be like memorable enough. And like, there's so much stuff on there. You know, my, I don't even really know how to find like, well, I guess it kind of tells you if I watched it, but it sort of doesn't either. It just says like uh like that you can continue it because you don't finish it out all the way through the the credits or whatever but yeah it's interesting because like as i'm looking on there i'll watch a preview for a minute and i'm like i don't know if i've seen my wife's like oh yeah we saw that and i look at the next one i'm like oh that this looks cool just like we saw that you know and i'm looking at any because i just don't i don't really

ever pay attention like the actual name of it you know, and I'm looking at the, I just don't, I don't really ever pay attention to like the actual name of it, you know, but how are these movies going to be good enough for you to really remember them when there's, there's so many movies happening at one time. I think the quality is like being pushed down a little bit. Yeah. I don't know if this has ever happened to you,

Mark, but it used to happen to us all the damn time. We would rent a movie at Blockbuster, bring it home and then be like, ah we've seen this one already oh yeah yeah that happened a million times dude maybe have you ever thought maybe andy just doesn't want to see it so she's tricking you and just like uh we saw it uh we saw it there could be that there could be that well she's seen everything i don't know how she does it she's watched everything dang you know you guys have that problem like uh watching stuff without each

other you get pissed or like do you get pissed or they get pissed i i get upset when we like oh man we're supposed to watch it together yeah oh and actually that that doesn't happen too often but what does happen is i'll talk about so it it's almost the opposite of Mark and Andy. I will reference a movie and be like, we just saw that like two weeks, two months, two years ago, whatever it may be. And like, no, I don't remember that part at all. I'm like, come on. And I'll explain the whole movie. Nope, nothing, nothing, nothing.

Five seconds later, oh yeah. I'm like, she'll remember a part that i had nothing to do with you know that was explaining so that that's frustrating yeah my wife and my son can explain an entire movie to you that they saw doesn't matter when they saw it they can explain almost the entire fucking thing to you and And I'm like, that's what that movie was about? I'm like, man, I guess I was in a different theater or something. I don't remember any of that shit. But dude, aren't you

taking in audiobooks and a bunch of stuff during the day? You talk to me that it almost gets nauseating how much of your stuff you listen to. I think my brain is in a different spot pretty much. yeah i i thought i would be taken in way more but the places where i normally would be doing that commuting walking i'm just not doing them as much like i'm not driving anywhere so i'm not doing

that so that's actually what pushed me to do the 10 minute squat this morning was like dude i need to check into these podcasts it's been for a while same thing on the treadmill like that's where i'm getting in my podcast now so it's a i mean yeah it's been it's been cool to do that but i wish i was doing a lot more audiobooks and also with like the editing work now too since i'm doing well essentially no photos right now that's when i would take in a lot of my content is because like editing photos i don't need to listen to any like uh to make sure to edit photos there's no sound so i can listen to whatever now with the podcast it's obviously it's all sound so i can't have something playing in the background because it'll be too distracting

and then i'll have to hit stop check audio audio, stop, you know, back and forth. So because of my, our situation right now, I haven't been taking in too much audio stuff, which is probably why my creativity has been down. At least it feels down. Got time to hit up that second workout. Yeah. Yeah. Take us on out of here, Andrew. Thank you everybody for checking out this episode with Mike Mutzel. Thank you to Perfect Keto for sponsoring this episode. If you guys are interested in checking up with them, please check the YouTube description and iTunes show notes, Facebook description also. I keep forgetting this. Dude, I've been using that.

I've been still using that collagen protein. I'm loving it. Yeah. It is good, huh? Running low on that salted caramel though. If you can, can you explain why collagen is so important? Well, it's really good for my hair. That makes sense. Collagen, you know, I think, I think one of the main benefits of collagen will probably be for

most people will probably be their, their, their stomach, like their gut health. You know, I think that that's – I feel like my stomach has been pretty, like, bomb-proof to begin with. But things like dealing with, like, dairy and things of that nature, I think it's helped a lot with that. And I just – I've been utilizing it for a while now. The other thing is, too, is that, you know, through help from Stan Efferding and guys like mike mutzel um and and a few others they've recommended like that can help you with your sleep a little bit and

my sleeping i've been working on it for you know quite some time i just don't like to be in bed and so uh i'll just do any and everything but i do think the collagen protein and i've been making a lot of progress with my sleep my sleep still like in terms of my deep sleep still needs to improve but you know i've noticed some uh helps i noticed some assistance with uh my gut health and uh in addition to that helping with my sleep a little bit yeah what's the deal with salted caramel i mean the mft oil powder is delicious i use that in my coffee because i want to enjoy something sweet but man they really nailed that flavor yeah they did they make a lot of great products and everything that they have you know doesn't have any artificial sweeteners in it so those people that are worried or sensitive to

sucralose or any artificial sweeteners, you don't have to worry about that with Perfect Keto products. Yep. If you guys are interested, again, the links will be in the iTunes show notes, YouTube description. But if you're just driving right now, head over to perfectketo.com slash power25 at checkout, enter promo code powerproject for 25% off any order of $99 or more. And on top of that, you'll receive free shipping. Check out the new cookies. That stuff's insane. Please make sure you're following the podcast at

Mark Bell's PowerProject on Instagram, at MBPowerProject on TikTok and Twitter. And I think that's about it for right now. And then my personal Instagram is at IamAndrewZ and Seema, what's up? Yeah, guys. Hit up those quarantine doubles i got my kettlebell workout in make sure hashtag quarantine doubles with an s at the end we're just doing two workouts a day right now so that kettlebell imam was 10 minutes gonna hit up

something else tonight but i'm in sema on instagram and youtube and sema yin yang on tiktok and twitter mark those 10 minute squats are no joke my boy andrew ain't lying he did his I'm in SEMA on Instagram and YouTube and SEMA on TikTok and Twitter. Mark. Those 10 minute squats are no joke. My boy Andrew ain't lying. He did his birthday 10 minute squat. All you do is you just squat down and you just kind of sit in a squat. If you want to move around a little bit, if you want to throw in some reps, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The whole point in doing it is you're trying to gain some access to some mobility.

And I think a great way to do that is to try to move around a little bit. At first, for me, I wasn't able to move around much at all. I wasn't able to do anything different with my foot position. It's like my feet just needed to be like pointed way out and I needed to kind of have my feet closer together. But now I'm getting used to it. I can have my feet a little bit wider. I'm getting a little bit better stretch in the hips and I kind of, I'll kind of rock. I'll go one side to the other. I'll do like a goblet squat type thing. And I'll push my

knees out with my elbows and stuff like that just feels good. And why not get outside and, and do something good for yourself. Get some sunlight. The weather is getting a little bit better in most parts of the country. So you can kind of get a uh a double whammy going right there happy birthday andrew dude we appreciate you so much you've done so much kick-ass work for this company and appreciate everything that you do for the podcast you're you're the fucking man thanks a lot man i appreciate that happy birthday big guy dude throw up a double bicep to the fans just real quick. Take it off. Okay, hold on a second. Hold on.

Oh, he's going to take his clothes off for his birthday? Yeah, I can't do it with a sweater on. I won't go shirtless because I haven't trimmed the fur in a while. Oh, we want to see the fur. We love the fur, Daddy. What? What did I say? Wow.

What? I didn't say anything. What? I'm confused. No, we don't know. I didn't say anything I'm confused We don't know Let's see this double bicep Here we go He doesn't even have any music

No warm up Ladies and gentlemen Birthday double bicep The double bicep is so effective That it fucked up his screen Look at that Happy birthday buddy The double bicep is so effective that it like fucked up his screen. Yeah. Look at that. Boy.

Happy birthday, buddy. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm at Mark smelly bell everywhere. You can find me. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness,

never strength. Catch y'all later.