Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 373 - Stem Cells vs The Virus ft. Prof. Stachura

Episode Date: April 22, 2020

Dr. David Stachura is a professor and researcher at California State University, Chico and has been featured in 55 publications. He is a cell culture and molecular cell biology expert who is currently studying and researching the molecular basis of blood diseases. Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Support us by visiting our sponsors! ➢Perfect Keto: http://perfectketo.com/power25 Use Code "POWERPROJECT" for 25% off and free shipping on orders of $99! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Icon Meals: http://iconmeals.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

Power Project crew, thank you for checking out today's episode. This episode was recorded on April 20th, so happy 420 to everybody out there that partakes in the unofficial holiday. But today we have an awesome guest. It is with Professor David Stachura, who is a PhD researcher from the California State University, Chico. His research is focused on understanding the molecular basis of blood disease, and he does a ton of amazing groundbreaking

work with stem cell research. And just like our friend Charles Brooke, you guys will see that this guy is on an HNL. He is on a whole nother level. He is in the lab right now in the process of creating lab created fish. I know it's crazy. We get into that. I'm going to try not to spoil as much as I've done in the past. Somebody on YouTube commented saying that I messed up an episode because I said too much in the description. But I just want to give you guys a background on who David is and what he does. And he is just a wealth of knowledge. So we talked about, of course, the coronavirus, his thoughts and opinions on that, whether or not stem cells is going to help it, whether or not a vaccine is going to get it right the first time around, because we talked about how the flu virus usually doesn't get it

right, but we got his thoughts and opinions on that. We talked about the different range of symptoms that people are getting with the coronavirus. And Seema, unfortunately, he knows a lot of people that have been contracting the virus. Some of them have little to no symptoms. Others have very serious symptoms. And these are usually younger people that are in great shape. So we asked David, why is there so many variables when it comes to why people have different symptoms when they contract the virus. And he gives us a solid answer and it makes a ton of sense. Also, last night was the first two episodes of The Last Dance, the Chicago Bulls documentary. So we talked a ton about that.

I hope you guys enjoy that because I know I did. We're really looking forward to finishing out the rest of that series and talking about it here on air. So again, just a good, awesome conversation with a professor that is in the know. And Mark explained it very well. He's very much down the middle. You know, he's not too far one side or the other side. He just gives us straight, solid information. And real quick, as fast as I can, if you guys haven't already, please head over to markbell.com, register for your free 30-day trial. The previous free trial used to only be seven days. So it's really cool that you get an entire month of free daily workouts. That's right, at markbell.com, Mark posts his workout every single day. Every single day, you're going to get a brand new workout. And we understand that gyms are shut down. So

there's a huge emphasis on body weight movements, slingshot and hip circle movements, just a bunch of stuff that you can do without a gym, without a ton of equipment. Again, that's at markbell.com. And speaking of not having enough equipment or maybe wanting to spruce up your workouts, right now at markbellslingshot.com, We are running a 15% off sale off of all home fitness gear. So that means all slingshots, all hip circles, all apparel, and all of the sport knee sleeves, just the sport knee sleeves, not the strong knee sleeves, because we're talking about the home stuff. So we're trying to help you guys out a little bit more by giving you guys more

options on more items. So again, that's at markwellslingshot.com. That is a limited time only. That is from April 22nd to April 24th. So the day that this podcast publishes to Friday, so Wednesday to Friday, again, April 22nd to April 24th, 15% off all slingshots, hip circles, apparel, and sport knee sleeves. Thank you everybody for checking out this episode. If you guys like the conversation or maybe, you know, whether it's with a guest or whether it's without the guest when we're talking about Michael Jordan, Scotty Pippen and all that, please reach out to us. Hit us up at Mark Bell's Power Project on Instagram, at MB Power Project on TikTok. And, yeah, let's have a conversation. But for right now, I want you guys to please enjoy this show.

Clear the throat. Perfect. Keto's awesome. You should go buy it. And done. I've been mixing up some awesome yogurt at night. And last night I made it. Well, two nights ago, I made one for myself because I'm a selfish bastard. And Andy tried it. And Andy's like, oh, my God, that's really good.

I had a scoop of slingshot protein in there, but had some of that collagen, a bunch of scoops of that collagen. I think this yogurt, my math was right. I think there was like 100 grams of protein in this mamma jamma. That's amazing. That's why I look a little, a little swole today. A little extra swole from that. Is that like Greek yogurt?

Yeah, it was, um, it was that phage yogurt. I think it's called, it was that one. Yeah, it was that one mixed with a lot of,

a lot of, there are a lot of protein in there, but the, um, that collagen protein, the, um, salted caramel used a bunch of that in the, but that collagen protein, the salted caramel, we used a bunch of that in the yogurt mix with some slingshot protein, threw it in the freezer.

That's the hard part is you got to wait for it. I threw it in the freezer for about two hours with some salt and some cinnamon. That was it. Just took a whisk and then a big old, like, so I had to make it last night for Andy because she was like, you need to make me one of those. So I made up a giant one, big old, like, so I had to make, I had to make it last night for Andy because she was like, you need to make me one of those. So I made up a giant one, big old bowl. But yeah, I'm loving the keto, perfect keto products. Yeah.

And what's awesome is it's, you know, my fiance, she can't do straight black coffee. She always says that she has to have a lot of flavor in it because, you know, we all have said and admitted that straight black coffee is a little rough. Drinking it right now, it's gross. Yeah, dude, I know. It's just like you can get over it. Like you don't really ever acquire like a taste for it or whatever. You know, it always starts out kind of like, oh, that's shitty. So, what can I do?

If you like black coffee, you're a weirdo. Let's just say that. And it also means that you uh you want to put your tongue on like a uh on a battery you know like when you when you're a kid that makes a lot of sense but now it's really cool is that she just uses the uh the salted caramel mct oil powder from perfect keto and it's like okay it's it almost seems naughty because like it tastes so good but it's good for you, right? It's just extra fuel.

The other thing is, too, is they don't use any artificial. I know some people are into this. They don't want to have any artificial ingredients. They don't want to have any artificial sweeteners in their diet. If you're looking for that and you want to get bars that help you stay on a keto diet or you want to get some protein that helps you stay on a keto diet they use stevia instead of sucralose and things like that so it presents you a lot of great options yeah some really great stuff guys head over to perfectketo.com slash power 25 at checkout enter promo code power project for 25 off and free shipping on any orders of 99 or more

i saw a pretty cool tutorial yesterday. I think you guys may have seen it. Maybe I saw maybe that in SEMA like that, or maybe it was SettleGate or somebody. But anyway, I saw a good tutorial from our boy Kelly Sturette yesterday. He posted up something about some lunges, and I saw how he said a backwards lunge is more of a squat position assisted with a kickstand of your leg than it is an actual lunge.

And so he wasn't promoting that that was bad. He was just saying, hey, you're still in this kind of folded over position. And when you're doing a lunge, you're trying to not do that. You're trying to be like more upright. So I just wanted to throw that in there in the beginning of the podcast here. Cause I just thought it was, I was like, I've never heard anybody, you know, as always Kelly Sturette bringing, bringing the noise every time. But I just thought that that was a really useful tip for those of you out

there that are messing with lunges that are doing the kind of backward step lunge to help, you know, avoid knee pain. It's a great movement, but also maybe try to think of some ways that you can get yourself more upright. One of the things he said right away to get yourself more upright is just to be on a small step. So just, you know, you have your foot up on, you know, a plate or two, or you have your foot up six or eight inches might help. Oh, we got, we got them in here. Uh, no uh no not no i don't know what that was that was me looking at that kelly strett video real quick oh okay switch yeah that's really cool

yeah everyone's doing lunges right now especially like trying to get some type of leg work leg work in squats kind of get boring when you're not using much weight but lunges always feel good and difficult like there's no way like it's like lunges always feel good and difficult. Like there's no way that like, it's like lunges aren't our thing that yeah, that you get better at them, but they never really feel good. If you know what I'm saying, especially like first thing in the morning, like if you're just, your body's not warm or anything, like in my mind, I was actually thinking about this today. I'm like, man, I'd be such a better athlete if my knees, my knees aren't terrible, but they just kind of suck. Like there's, they just,

I don't know. They feel like they're always about to snap at some point, you know, once I'm warm, I feel fine. But in the morning, like first thing, they feel kind of like brittle, you know, they, they don't feel like they're going to work great. I don't feel like, I don't feel like I could shoot on somebody and just take their ass out unless i warmed up for 25 minutes dude you mentioned knees and and all that stuff while i was watching the jordan documentary all i was thinking about was like hops and just like wow like the fucking bounce um it's i i've heard that a lot of people um that you can actually you can train a lot of that stuff just most people don't like most people, um, that you can actually, you can, you can train a lot of that stuff. Just most people don't like, most people don't think that they can jump. They just don't really train.

That was, uh, he was also very, very thin, very thin. Like when he was real young, he was super thin. So that probably helped. Yeah. Hello. Hey, there he is. Hey doctor. Thanks for coming on the show today. Yeah, no worries. Really appreciate it. Let's kick it off with telling people what the hell it is that you do. What I do? Yeah. Yeah, so I'm a professor at Chico State.

I teach immunology. I study how the body makes blood. And I'm working on some other stuff, basically trying to make sushi without actual fish just trying to make it from stem cells like in a dish so i do a bunch of different things yeah hey what's what's that about let's talk about that for a minute yeah so would that mean that that it's always fresh if it's fake yeah well i i think there's there's a lot of reasons to do it right you know we're really trying to do bluefin tuna because they're so endangered. But, I mean, theoretically, it should be safer and better for you too, right?

No mercury contamination, all the benefits of, you know, muscle fiber, but without, you know, all the bycatch and terrible fish farming techniques that we have to do. Has this kind of thing been done before? So I'm, I'm consulting with this company who's working on it right now in Emeryville. So they're doing it. There's other companies that are trying to do it with beef and pork and chicken.

But yeah, we're kind of like the kind of like leading the way on the fish front. This is a lot different than an impossible burger, huh? Yeah, exactly. So it'd be like a real, you know, it'd be a real fish. The idea would be do sashimi, right? Like sashimi grade, you know, sushi that you could have. That sounds amazing.

And plus anyone who's unfamiliar with bluefin tuna, that's like the best tasting sushi that you can get. I think especially sashimi wise, cause it's kind of a fattier tuna, right? Fattier part of the tuna. Better than yellowtail. A lot of people like it better than yellowtail, but yeah,

yellow, yellow tail is a little leaner. Maybe I want to know, like, are you guys just growing the, like the raw fish? Are you growing like a full on fish? No, no.

So like, you know, your muscle, you guys know this, right? Like your muscles have these like satellite cells in them and they're basically like the stem cells of your muscles. So what we do is we take the fish and we isolate those stem cells and then we just feed them different things to like coax them into turning into muscle. So, uh, so yeah, so it's basically like we start with a fish obviously but like basically it's just like a plate um and the fish meat grows on top of it and like how about this like if you saw like a tuna roll you know like how it's all like mashed up like tuna just cut up like that that's basically

what it looks like in a in a dish when we had uh sean baker on he was i mean obviously he's very much against the impossible burger and that sort of thing um so i don't know if he made it sound much worse than it actually is but when they were when he was saying that in order to make that they have to use like an actual like ah shit i'm gonna butcher this but like an embryo or some type of a, uh, like an actual living cell in order to actually make it grow. Um, if you want to correct me on that, please do. But, um, for creating the, uh, like recreating a fish, do you have to use any kind of like live or living thing to create it? Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, we're definitely taking them from fish. So we're starting off with

bluefin tuna and then we got to isolate those stem cells from them um impossible burger i think i think the only thing they have that's alive is they use like yeast to produce the heme which is kind of the thing that gives meat its flavor yeah sorry i i'm the blood the blood protein yeah i misspoke um it was for like lab created meat, not the impossible. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, lab created meat. Definitely. You know, they're taking stem cells from cows and chickens.

And yeah, same with with your knowledge, your wide base of knowledge, especially when it comes to stem cells. Do you think that stem cells can be like, what do you think stem cells could potentially help the human body with? Like, I've had some stem cell injections before, but, you know, you don't know what you're getting from this person or that person. And I didn't really find it to be effective. But at the same time, maybe my expectations were too high. I had a really, you know, an elbow that was really beat up from years and years of powerlifting. And I wanted to be able to get back to pursuing 600 pounds. Maybe there's not, maybe there's not an injection for that. So what do you think stem cells could be useful for? Oh, I mean, I think, you know, we're going to see in the next 10 to 20 years, you can use stem cells for anything, honestly. But like what you're

talking about is, is the problem with like the industry right now, which is that it's completely unregulated. And so you go into a doctor's like the FDA doesn't regulate it. Or if they do regulate it, they don't have enough like oversight to do anything about it. So there's like these stem cell clinics and you don't know what the hell you're getting, right? So you're probably getting like mesenchymal stem cells, which are like from your fat. And they just, you know, you can isolate those from like a liposuction clinic.

So it's almost, it's honestly like Fight Club, you know, they just take these bags of like liposuction fat and isolate those cells from them. And then those are stem cells technically, but you probably don't want fat stem cells injected into your eye to cure glaucoma, right? It's not going to do anything. What have you seen? Like what's some of the more like maybe miraculous things where you're like, wow, that's, you know, and maybe that's, you know, why you've been pursuing stem cells. Like what are some, obviously the growing of fish seems to be amazing and being able to grow protein and

meat and food that seems pretty wild. But what about in terms of inside the human body? Well, I think, I think the biggest success story for stem cells is basically blood stem cells so you probably don't think about it but you're making like 10 trillion blood cells per day and all those cells need to get replaced constantly and so there's so many diseases so many types of problems that happen when those stem cells go haywire and so for like bone marrow transplants and like infusion when those stem cells go haywire. And so for like bone marrow transplants and like infusion of blood stem cells, it can cure so many diseases. It's like totally changed the way we think about cancer and all types of blood issues. So yeah, those are big success stories. Like there's certain types of leukemia, which is basically just blood cancer, that it was

like a 90% death rate for kids. And now with stem cell transplants, it's like a 90% survival rate. It's, it's incredibly shit. Yeah. Wow. But that stuff's like all regulated, right? Like that's like, you got to go to the doctor's office, you know, you got to go to the hospital to do that kind of stuff. Um, but yeah, who the hell knows what you, what you're getting injected in your elbow. You know, that's the problem, right? Right.

But theoretically, it could work, right, to inject stem cells into that region and repair that damage that's, you know, in your cartilage and the joint. What about in terms of like this virus that's going around? Is it possible that maybe we're not there yet for you to be able to really say 100%, but would something like stem cells help your immunity and help people be a little stronger against some of these viruses and some things that might be to come? Yeah, you could actually think about infusing people with blood cells that would help fight off the disease. I don't think it's like, it's probably not the easiest way to do it.

I think really the big thing is to get a vaccine, right. And then, and then your body does it itself. But yeah, have you guys seen this where they're trying to take plasma from people who have already been infected and transfuse it into the people that are potentially sick? Like that's a, that's a way to do it. It would work, you know, because you have these proteins in your body, those antibodies that are in the plasma that could fight off the virus. But it's not the best way to do it. The best way to do it is to make yourself make those antibodies.

What are some of your thoughts in general about the virus? Do you feel like we're handling the coronavirus? Do you feel like we're handling it well? Do you feel like we're, we're handling the Corona virus? Do you feel like we're handling it? Well, do you feel like social distancing is is helping? Do you feel like quarantine is helping? Like what are some of your general thoughts on it? Yeah, this is, this is a tough one. I don't know. I'm so, so where are you guys at? Like, I mean, we're in, we're in California.

I'm in, I'm in like, I'm kind of near San Francisco. Sacramento over here. Sacramento. Yeah. All right. So, I mean, I'm up in Chico, so it's pretty rural. Um, I don't know. We haven't really felt the effects of any of this, right? It's not New York city. So it's, it's hard. I don't really completely, how about this? We're just flattening the curve just basically means like that the area under the curve is the same right

like everybody's going to get infected with this virus right the prediction is like 70% of the human population is going to get infected with this virus and I don't think it's been as bad as everybody is predicting that it was going to be. I guarantee you the death rate is not going to be as high as it's being reported right now

because I guarantee people have this virus and it's been circulating in a population for longer than we think. So when we work out the numbers of how many people are dying and how many people are infected, we just don't know how many people are infected. Because if you don't show symptoms, you have no idea if you've even been infected with the virus, right? Isn't the number that's like kind of being, I think, spread around because people are saying it's once 2%. Wouldn't that be like the case fatality rate of the virus? So if you go in, you get tested, you're positive. So they know you have the case. And then that's once 2%. But like you said, we don't know, like, we could have all

been infected and had absolutely no symptoms. And if we were tested, and it shows known, like that shows that we have infection, the infection fatality rate would be just way lower, correct? Oh, yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be way lower. It's going to be around the, around influenza levels, you know? Um, there was just, there was just like a paper that came out and it's, it's kind of, it's not published yet, but it's like looking at people in Sonoma County and they think the estimates are like three to 6% of people in Sonoma County are infected with the virus just by small testing that they've done. So like, think about that. That's, that's a lot of people, you know, and that's not how many people have died in Sonoma County.

So when you work those numbers out, yeah, you're looking at, like, 0.1%. So I think what's going to happen is we're going to stop social distancing, right, and then it's just going to come back, and they're going to do it again, and it's just going to come back and they're going to do it again. And it's just going to come back. And I don't, I don't know what the purpose of that is. You know, I'm curious then what are your thoughts on, cause I think we, we talked to Daniel Arrego about this. What are your thoughts on, um, like the way Sweden's handling it with their, with their herd immunity approach? Um, and it, it seems like with Sweden versus a place like New York where everyone's like stacked and living on top of each other, right? It seems like with sweden versus a place like new york where everyone's like stacked and

living on top of each other right it seems like the different places need to have different types of quarantine you know what i mean um so so what are your thoughts on that like if if you i don't know if you like had control over this and you could say hey this should happen here this should happen here how would you have approached it just curious curious. I think, well, first I think I would take it more like on a, yeah, I think it matters where you're at. Right. So the responses need to be different. So like, I don't necessarily think we needed to shut down a city of 60,000 people, um, in rural Northern California. Um, it, it, it just doesn't make that much sense. I have to tell you, like, honestly, the thing is like this, this virus is not airborne, right? So it's not like you're

breathing it out. Like it's in, it's in your spit, right? So it can be like in particulate. So really the answer is just wash your fucking hands, you know, like just wash your hands and don't touch your face and just practice good hygiene and you'll be fine. You don't need to be six feet away from somebody. You just don't need to have somebody spitting in your face. You know, this is, you know, common decency, right? Yeah. So, so like we have, like, I wouldn't have shut down schools for the rest of the semester. You know, I would have said like, look, like, let's take it by a week by week basis.

If we don't see any cases coming back up, let's open school back up. What's the what's the harm in doing that? But we've kind of just jumped the gun. Like, you know, our classes are canceled. Commencement is canceled. Commencement's canceled. It's like, why can't we just reschedule that? Why can't we push it back a couple of weeks?

It doesn't make any sense yeah um what are your thoughts on whether or not the virus will be will mutate and it'll just kind of be come back and become the seasonal you know flu sure it can for sure i mean there's all kinds of coronaviruses that cause like the common cold and cause other diseases um so i wouldn't be shocked at all if we see this again and again. Um, there's, this sounds really harsh, but you know, like if you put a perspective on some of these things, like 10 million people died of tuberculosis in 2017, like around the world, 10 million people. And, you know, there's some scientists working on tuberculosis research, but you don't hear about that in the news all the time, right?

10 million people have not died of coronavirus. From some of the stuff that you've seen, do you think that this virus is mainly just taking out people that maybe previously didn't have a healthy lifestyle? out people that maybe previously didn't have a healthy lifestyle. And also, you know, maybe some of these people are just like unaware, you know, like maybe they just don't, maybe they don't even really realize that they had a respiratory issue or something like that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that it's pretty clear that who it's really wiping out are people with respiratory ailments, right? I mean, first, you know, if you're older, you have a terrible immune system anyway. That's just what happens as you get older, your immune system goes, you know if you're older you have a terrible immune system anyway that's just what happens as you get older your immune system goes you know it goes to shit but um you know if you're a 75 year old uh smoker with diabetes and you're overweight yeah i mean but you you've got

other health issues too right i mean it's not it's not necessarily like the coronavirus that's going to take you out. You're on your way. It definitely highlights poor health and poor knowledge of people's bodies. They just think, whatever, I'll just go to the hospital and get treated. I was listening to something the other day which is like, if you get on a respirator, like if you're put on a respirator your chances of surviving are basically 50 like you're so screwed like you're you're so bad off if you need to be on a respirator it's a flip of a coin right and so we keep talking about like oh we need more

respirators uh really we need to we that's not going to help you know yeah my understanding yeah some of my understanding of a respirator is that it would even be hard just to it's it's difficult to get somebody used to a respirator that's even healthy like it's a hard transition to get to it they have to usually um you know anesthetize you because your lungs work off of like negative pressure, but a respirator basically works off a positive pressure. So it's like pushing air into your lungs, which is like not how you actually breathe, right? Like through your diaphragm and like pulling the air in. So yeah, apparently it's like a terrible thing to be put on.

When it comes to like testing for this stuff, we briefly mentioned it, but what are some of your thoughts on like, does that solve problems for us? Or does that create more issues? And then like there might be, you know, some false positives and there might be some mistakes being made in the laboratories and stuff like that. What are some of your thoughts on testing for it? Yeah, sure. Well well i think that one thing is that people don't know a lot about viruses right so it just like the general population right so like probably so we do this thing in class right where i test the kids and they see if they have mono or not right so mononucleosis it's caused by this virus it's called the epstein-barr virus and basically

no one tests positive for mono right because most people aren't walking around with like a raging mono infection. But then I test them later for antibodies that have been made against that virus. And like 95% of the kids in class have those antibodies, which means like 95% of us have been infected with that virus at some point in time. But most of us fought it off, right? And we didn't get mono. And I think we're going to see the same thing with this, right? So we're going to test and we're going to say okay you're positive but what does that mean it just means at some point in time i had that virus in me and i fought it off

how does that how does that help us right so like i to tell you the truth you know i'm ordering the tests now because i just want to test people around here you know and kind of show them that they probably already had it um but what does it mean clinically i don't i don't really know but i see what you're saying which is does it make people like even more scared and worried you know that that they've been infected you know i don't know yeah that what you said there kind of makes me curious to like, because like people can get infected and they don't even realize it. But another thing I'm curious about is just like, you know, there's really bad flus. I don't know if there's even needs to be an explanation for this,

but I do know some individuals. I know like actually quite a few people who have had it at this point. I have quite a few people that have had it and they're like, Oh, I just had a little bit of cough for a day and I was good. Some people literally no symptoms that they were, they were fine. I have a friend in New York. I was texting Mark and Andrew about this. He's young, he's healthy, but he had a rough go of it for seven days. Uh, he lost his sense of taste, sense of smell. So what I'm curious about here is, I guess, is there an explanation for why there's so much range in symptoms? Is it just the, how strong it hits you? Cause he was fairly healthy, I guess, is there an explanation for why there's so much range in symptoms? Is it

just the how strong it hits you? Because he was fairly healthy. I mean, he's he's he's recovered, right? He wasn't gonna, he wasn't anywhere close to death or anything. But is there an explanation for that? Yeah, so I gotta get a little sciencey for a second on that one. But yeah, but there is there's a total reason. And so we inside of us have all these proteins and they kind of determine like your body from the outside world so like that's how your body that's how your immune system tells like self from non-self right and these proteins what they do is they process they process other proteins in your body and they kind of present them on the surface of a cell so i like to think of these they're like a hot it's like a hot dog being presented in a bun

like that's what i tell kids in class and so like these buns and these hot dogs are like sitting outside of your outside of your cells and then like the immune cells can like interact with them so all of us have different buns right if that makes sense so like so like that's why like if i gave you a kidney right your body would fight off that kidney it would see that bun and it would destroy it right so like the way that you present those hot dogs out on the surface of the cell basically dictates how well you're going to respond to these infections so like there's groups of people and i'm not saying like races it's usually like it's just it's like isolated groups so it's like

who you mate with right like what groups so it's like who you mate with right like what kind of combinations of those buns you have and how you present those those peptides those pieces of protein the virus on the surface so like no one's done this yet but like i'm guaranteeing they're going to find that there's a certain subtype of people with like a certain subtype of protein that do really well and they can clear the infection really, really easily. But this is like, this is like how evolution and the immune system and pathogens like end up wiping out huge groups of people because they just, they can't respond properly to that kind of virus. And if you can respond properly, you just make an antibody and it's in your mucus and you just clear it and it's gone you know so i think what we're

seeing is it's not just health i mean obviously like when you're older and you're you know you have respiratory ailments like that's that's definitely a risk factor that's a risk factor for tons of stuff right but yeah young people who are healthy it could just be like that you're unlucky genetically honestly and you just can't fight off that virus the way that other people fight it off can you uh maybe relate uh how the human body makes uh antibodies to uh working out since we're a bunch of meatheads maybe there's uh maybe there's a correlation there no no so um you mean like how you make antibodies at all yeah like why all? Yeah, like why your body makes them or how it makes them. Yeah.

So like basically what happens is the simple version is let's say a virus gets inside of your cell. There's special cells that eat those viruses up. So they're going to eat those viruses up and they're going to present them to like another cell. And that cell, like you know when you get sick and your lymph nodes swell up so those are those cells growing and they're called b cells so like the b cells start growing and they start making more copies of themselves and basically what they do is they make these special proteins and they're called antibodies and then what happens is those b cells like secrete the antibodies and the reason that antibodies do anything in you is there's a couple things that can do but what they do is they stick to the virus. And so they stick to the virus. And

then that tells your body like, Oh, look, there's an antibody stuck to this virus, I should eat it up. So so it increases like the digestion of like those of the viral proteins. And it also allows the other cells, like let's say you have a virus that infects a cell, right? So your body, it can't do anything, right? Because it's inside of the cell. So actually what it does is you have special T cells in your body that can kill those cells. So you're basically sending a signal that says, okay, look, I'm infected with a virus. Come over here and kill me. And you have special cells in your body that'll go over and kill those cells.

So antibodies are kind of like the first, it's kind of like the signal to your body that something's wrong. And I'm going to label it with all these little antibodies and you guys clean up the mess. When it comes to, does that help? Yeah. That helps a ton.

Yeah. When it comes to T cells, do you think the answer is to try to make more of them? And if so, how do we make more T cells? Yeah, so like that whole process, a lot of you can stimulate T cells, you can stimulate more T cell growth. But sometimes that's not a good thing because like i said they kill other cells so you don't want them going crazy um so there's like there's like a tight regulation like in your body like how many do we make and how many do you know because you don't want to just like destroy like a you don't want to destroy like your airway with t-cells

right like oh all these cells are infected let's just destroy them and then you get a hole in your windpipe right so like most things don't like stimulate more t-cells um but like you were asking about stem cell treatments before you know now there's a lot of there's a lot of people who have been working on basically making t-cells that are targeting like cancer cells and this has been a treatment so you can take the t-cells out of your body and you can basically tell them to recognize a cancer cell and you put them back in your body and then all they do is they go crazy and they just kill all those cancer cells this is this is like a new technology that's come on the market in like the last five to ten years and it's incredible um for for doing that for killing bad things all types of cancer or all types not all types usually it's the the main one was leukemia uh but they're working on like solid tumors now so like breast cancer

things like that wow yeah i'm curious about this actually and we don't need to spend much time on this at all but um you know the spanish flu 1918, is what you were talking about, because you know how Spanish flu, apparently it took out young, healthy people. What was it that it caused? Was it like, because it was causing like an overproduction of something that just killed people with good immune systems, I think, or am I totally off? No, I think, well, it's, it's hard, right? Because 1918, it's like, it's before we had penicillin, you know, like, so basically, who knows exactly what was going on. But yeah, what can happen is, what can happen a lot of times is you have like this overstimulation of your immune system, and your immune system is just trying to fight this thing off. But really, what it's doing is it's causing more damage to your body. So there's actually like a lot of work on like drugs that I've seen for COVID, which is actually turning down the immune system because the immune system is like cranked up, you know, to 11 and you want to turn it down. This is like when you get a fever,

right? So when your body gets a fever, that's basically your body trying to kill the virus. It's raising your body temperature because viruses don't like a high temperature. So it's like your, it's your response. It's not like the virus makes you hot. It's like, you're making yourself hot. You make yourself swell to like get rid of those kinds of things. So yeah, it can totally be the immune system,

like going crazy. And on top of that, cause I know you're definitely the guy that can help explain this to us. A lot of parents have kids and what people have been hearing was like, you know, if your kid is 11, 12 and under, they'll probably get this and they'll probably have mild to no symptoms. Can you explain to us why that is? Apparently there's something with a child's immune system that just doesn't cause them to have a really bad version of this virus. They just end up being carriers. Why is that? Yeah, I think they're working on this right now, but basically, you know, those antibodies I was telling you about, you're not just, they're not just inside of your body. You actually secrete them. So like your mucus and everything,

like in your respiratory tract is like filled with antibodies, right? And there are antibodies against things that you've sampled. Um, and you're basically trying to fight them before they even get inside of your body. Does that make sense? Yeah. So like kids, younger people, they have more of those antibodies. So they have a better production of those kinds of antibodies that are basically getting stuck in the mucus. so then when they breathe in a viral particle or they rub their eyes or whatever it's like instantly neutralized with those antibodies so i think i think the younger you are the better you have like protection so that the virus doesn't even get inside of you in the first place and then does that i think that's what they're i think that's what they're

finding yeah and then does that make it better or worse for spreading the virus yeah i guess it doesn't it it could make it worse right because you don't know right you're you're just clearing it constantly um i mean yeah it's worse because you know if you get mucus kids are disgusting right so like i have i have two like one and a half year olds like we just had twins like a year and a half ago wow they're real gross they eat they eat everything man like they're just chewing on doorknobs and just wiping their boogers everywhere and you can't stop it right you know but like so the spread of that virus is yeah yeah, it's worse in younger people, right? Because they're not paying attention, right?

They're just getting it everywhere. But again, it's like, it's so easy. Like, just wash your hands. Just use hand sanitizer, you know? Don't rub your eyes. You don't need a full hazmat suit to go to Costco. Just wash your hands. Yeah. at a costco just just wash your hands yeah so even though they they are able to neutralize it

instantly it still it just lives with inside them so then they can still pass it on no i mean they're probably they're they're probably clearing it so that um it's not within them but i mean for for a little bit sure it's going to be inside of them and they're going to shed that virus. That happens all the time, though. I think that people really get focused on this. Like, oh, you're coughing, you're sneezing. Don't be around me. You're giving me a virus. But the reality is that person was probably sick for three or four days before they started coughing and sneezing.

And they've been sharing that virus with you the whole time. and sneezing and they've been sharing that virus with you the whole time um so i mean it's definitely easier to share the virus when you're sneezing all over the place and getting droplets everywhere but but honestly you know you have you're constantly fighting off viruses like every minute of the day and um most of them you never know infect you because you just clear them so easily you don't get sick every time you get a virus inside of you usually you get rid of it pretty quickly but the issue is like when you don't right and it's it's a race against time right if your body doesn't fight it off fast enough you get sick um so yeah i mean those kids still have the virus but they're not going to have

it forever right you'll clear it but during that time yeah sure they're not going to have it forever. Right. You'll clear it. But during that time, yeah, sure. They're going to be spreading it around for sure. I think that's the danger, right? The asymptomatic thing, right? It's like, I don't have symptoms, but I'm still spreading the virus around. Do we have any information yet on whether this, uh, if you get this virus, if you can get it again, I think that it seems like, it seems like there are, there is some evidence of that. And that that again, is just like, you know, your body makes those antibodies, and they're not perfect.

So if they bind to a certain part of the virus, and then that virus mutates, then it doesn't bind anymore. And then you don't have immunity against it. So this is like, this is the problem with the seasonal flu too, right? Influenza. You know, we make a vaccine and we think it's going to work against the strain that's out there. And then, of course, it changes. And then you get infected, you get infected with influenza.

It's just a different strain. And that vaccine just doesn't help you. It's the same issue. So I would not doubt that there's going to be new varieties of this coronavirus running around that are going to keep infecting people. Yeah, we've had a few doctors on this show who have adamantly said, like, you can't stop, you know, the government and people can't stop a virus. There's not really, you know, washing your hands, as you're pointing out. It's like beyond that. And then just some general wellness, I guess, you know.

Yeah, sure. You know, don't be disgusting with your food and try to get some sleep and, you know, don't be overtaxed all the time and overworked all the time. But that, you know, that was kind of some of the statements that we've had on the show. And it appears that that's very true. I mean, it seems like when we all start to go back to work and things like that, I would imagine the first people that come out of their house are going to be fairly healthy, have a robust immune system and be able to handle, you know, whatever's out there. And so it will appear as if the quarantine worked, but it will just be an illusion, really, because we're probably still passing the virus around. People are probably still getting it. I've heard some estimates that they think like over 80 million Americans have already had the virus, you know.

And so it's going to be really hard to pinpoint, you know, what the heck is really happening and going on. But I guess maybe the one thing is it slowed things down enough to maybe we'll end up with some medicine, and maybe we'll end up with a vaccine soon enough. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of evidence that it's been circulating, at least in California for a long time, since like December, people coming back with it. So it's not shocking. But like what you're really saying, you know, at the end there is that our healthcare system sucks, right? So like the problem is we need to like flatten the curve because we just can't handle these kind of things because everything's privatized.

And, you know, why should we have ventilators? Why should we have ICU beds? Like, you know, we don't, we don't need them. Right. And I think in essence, you know, yes, this thing's going to rage through our population. And if you are genetically capable of clearing it, you're going to survive. And if you're not, it sounds really bad, but you're not going to survive it. And there's nothing really, you know, closing down stores or closing school. That's not going to change that. You know, that's the reality of it. You know, on the trail of what Mark asked with the mutation, when most of us think about

mutation, we think about like, oh, it gets worse. And then it turns into, we think it gets worse. But does it always get worse when it mutates? Or does it sometimes become less? I guess? Not as bad? Yeah, yeah, for sure. It can go it can go either way. So usually what happens is, yeah, you think of mutation as a getting worse, is getting worse because let's say you got five viruses, right? And one gets like stronger, right? And it can infect people better, right? And let's say the other four viruses, they mutate and they get weaker, right?

They don't infect very well. Well, that stronger one is going to like out-compete the other ones, right? So like that stronger one is going to infect people faster and then it's going to keep changing over time and over time. But yeah, there's millions of like mutations that are happening constantly and those viruses they just they just suck and they go away um but yeah there there is also the potential that you know it gets a little bit weaker it spreads around in the human population we all get herd immunity which basically just means all of us become immune to it and then it just can't yeah it just goes away

so yeah that's totally that's totally a potential are there any um precautions or anything we can do to prevent it from mutating into some crazy monster no that's that's the weird the weird biology of these viruses is um basically when when we copy our dna in our body right we have special proteins that basically check and make sure that the dna is getting like properly trans turned into rna and turned into protein in other words like we have like proofreading uh chemicals inside of us and the viruses don't have that so what happens is they just they just make copies of themselves and if the copy of it of themselves is different they don't care it doesn't really matter and uh so there's like no way to stop that mutation it's not a similar issue it's not a

similar issue with cancer the cancer like right it copies itself over and over again right right and it's basically like yeah for cancer it's like your cells have lost that capability of saying like okay there's something wrong i need to go back and fix it or i need to just kill this cell right um and it just says i don't care anymore um obviously i'm anthropomorphizing here cells don't say that but you know viruses don't say that but yeah they they just they stopped caring and they just keep making more copies of themselves. I'd imagine with your work, um, I would assume that it would be essential. So maybe not too many things have changed for you or have they changed

drastically? Are you having to stay at home as well? Yeah, I'm supposed to be at home. I'm at work right now, but I have, I have all these animals. So we have an animal colony downstairs. And so I'm kind of listed as like an essential worker because I have to take care of all my animals. We use these little fish. They're called zebrafish. You guys have probably seen them in like aquariums.

And we have a whole bunch of varieties of them that have fluorescent blood. And so we can look at them and see where the blood cells are and what they're doing. And we can modify them by putting in different genes and different proteins. So I got to make sure they're all alive. So I get to come into work every day, feed fish. It's like Petco. Do you think within the next decade or two that we'll have, you know, maybe a, I guess it's kind of hard to have a cure for cancer since there's so many different types, but you think we'll be pretty, pretty close? Yeah, I think we're, we're getting closer and closer.

I mean, that's amazing. Yeah. For, for a lot of cancers, it's just, um, we do have like great cures. it's just um we do have like great cures so if you were like an oncologist in the 60s it was probably pretty frustrating because the only thing we had were like chemotherapy uh just kind of like really destructive drugs right drugs that like kill every kind of cell that's dividing but now we have like really targeted um cancer treatments so it's getting a lot better um but the reality is know, like how long do human beings, like how long do you want to live? Right. You know, like

we weren't made to live past, you know, 110 years old, like your body just is, I don't know. It becomes like kind of like futile at some point in time i think like what's your quality of life you know yeah if you're going to live to 150 i'd imagine that your teeth will probably not be around anymore and there'll probably be a lot of other issues right yeah yeah your body is set to decline at some point in time so that's what cancer is right i mean that's why you get it when you get older. Like one out of three people is going to get it.

Have you heard of the Keto Pet Sanctuary? Have you heard of that before? No. This was a sanctuary that they put together where they tested dogs and they put them on a ketogenic style diet. A lot of the dogs, I don't know what other treatment went along with it, but a lot of the dogs went into remission for cancer, not all of them. But that was something that one of my, one of my friends worked on, his name is Ron Penna. He's the guy who kind of led the charge. And then we had, I had another friend that, that worked, worked on that with him. And

as soon as I brought your name up, he got all excited's like oh man he's he's really sought after uh in in cancer so you're gonna have a good time on the podcast with him have you noticed anything uh in terms of cancer in terms of just um you know does exercise help does does nutrition help does just having a more you know robust uh you know nervous system and and body and a healthier body? Does that assist at all? Or is it just take anybody? No, I think it's pretty clear that all those things are super important. So, you know, what you're putting into your body definitely dictates, you know, your immune function and how you respond to different things. And honestly, a lot of the idea with some of these

diets is that, you know, you have all these microbes that live inside of you, right? And I say inside of you, but I like to think of like the human body, like a big donut, right? And there's a donut hole. And that's basically your mouth to your anus, right? And so like, it's not really your body, right? But like, so we talk about the donut hole a lot in class. And so all the things, all the critters that live in that donut hole are super important. And so changing your diet, I mean, it's pretty clear that it changes. It can change your personality. It can change your, you know, anxiety.

You can get rid of it because there are certain bacteria in there that are making basically neurotransmitters that are going to your brain. And just by changing your diet, you can change the way that those proteins are being made. And it's the same thing for, you know, fighting inflammatory diseases, right? If you're eating things that are causing your body to react inappropriately to inflammation, it's terrible. But but yeah nutrition is a huge part of it i mean i think genetics genetics is like how you interpret that stuff in the donut hole but yeah i mean it definitely matters i have a question for you and i'm i'm curious if if you've if this is just purely anecdotal or if there's any merit to this now i, I know some people who, you know, as they ate more meat,

they like, cause you mentioned personality. So they're reporting, I feel a little bit more aggressive or I feel a little bit more, you know, not, not like, like mad or anything, just a little bit more aggressive. And I know individuals who like, like start only eating like vegetables and only plants. And they're like, I feel a little bit more calm or I feel a little bit want to go do yoga. Like, no, no, this,

this might, I don't know if there's any merit or there's something there because you mentioned personality. I'm curious, is there something there or is this just their experience? No, I think it's, I think it's pretty clear that it's true.

So like, so it, it, depending on what you're eating changes, the kind of bacteria that are in your gut and it, it totally can make a difference. Yeah. So there's been, there's been like quite a few studies where like going on a keto diet totally changes your gut microbiota.

So like all the, all the bacteria that's living in the donut hole. And, and like, I don't know, I don't know if there's been like any correlation to like, you know, the way people feel about it or if they just feel like they are more aggressive because they're eating a lot of meat. I don't know. But, but, I mean, I guess that's a possibility, right? But I think there's a strong possibility that it really has to do with the chemicals that are being made by those bacteria inside of people's gut. I don't think anyone like has a direct, you know, direct finding with that, but, but it's clear that it changes like what's inside of your gut.

Well, I would say there's probably a, there's probably a pretty big difference between, you know, eating a spinach that you cooked up just off of a fork versus eating a ribeye and having the bone and being able to kind of like pull it away from you. I mean, there's gotta be some stuff in your brain that that's feeling that sensation of chewing the meat. And it's, it feels it certainly feels different. So I'd imagine your body is interpreting it all to be a little bit different. I think it's like, I mean, it's definitely psychological. But you know, there's probably some chemical component to it. But yeah, of course, you're gonna, you're gonna feel a little bit different. You know, eating quinoa versus, yeah, a steak off the bone for sure.

Charles was telling us that you mainly eat vegetables, right? You're mainly a vegetarian? Yeah. I mean, I do eat meat, but I try to just eat local stuff, you know, try to be good about that. How long have you been doing that for? Since I was, I don't know, try to be good about that. How long have you been doing that for? Since I was, I don't know, a teenager. I think as a teenager, I had like more of a, it was more of like an animal rights kind of thing that I was into.

And then I just kind of realized like, you know, it's not, I don't know. I have a different perspective now as an adult. But like factory farming and stuff is pretty terrible. I mean, I don't think anyone would debate that. Like when you see those feedlots, you know, as you drive through on the five, you know, going south, it's pretty gross. And you think, man, this is like how we keep animals. But, you know, I don't have any problem getting a hamburger from like, you know, a local farm around here where I know it's not filled with chemicals and animals weren't treated terribly. Um, so yeah, that's kind of where

I'm at now. I don't know about you guys, but what do you do? Uh, exercise wise, you get a chance to exercise. Yeah. I do a lot of mountain biking. So around here, I get to ride my bike a lot. Um, so pretty much that that's great because mountain biking doesn't seem like something that's really been affected much by this no it's not it's actually great so my my mountain biking has gone up exponentially during this time that's pretty awesome though meatheads are getting really sad because they don't have a gym to work out and so they're all stuck doing push-ups and squats at home which is perfectly okay but yeah there is some specialized there's some specialized equipment that you probably just

don't have laying around in your apartment for certain exercises yeah is there um is there some stuff uh that you're seeing with stem cells that could turn us into like super beings, you know, cause there, or is there something that you've stumbled upon? I mean, we're into like bodybuilding powerlifting. Sure. Is there potential that, you know, we can take a stem cell injection and turn into LeBron James or something like that?

Yeah. I mean, I think there's, I mean, so, I mean, you're talking about like powerlifting, right? Like there's definitely stuff you could do to enhance your, I mean, I think there's I mean, so I mean, you're talking about like powerlifting, right? Like there's definitely stuff you could do to enhance your, you know, muscle production like that. That's not debatable. Right. I mean, all of this stuff, like, yes, it could definitely be used to for enhancement. Clearly, like there's so many stem cell technologies that could be used for enhancement. that could be used for enhancement. I think that's like the gray area, right, where people start to think like, oh, is this right? Is this ethically correct? But, I mean, we enhance ourselves all the time, right?

Like it's kind of just the next phase of it as far as I'm concerned. But, yeah, of course, you can take those muscle stem cells and inject them into you. And you know, yeah, why wouldn't it work? It should work. I know a lot of times, the guys that are in the lab sometimes are the guinea pigs. I had Andy Galpin remove a chunk of muscle from my leg. And I was a big I was a big puss about it. And everybody in the lab laughed at me because they're like, we get that done all the time because they're all using each other for experiments. Have you gone down that rabbit hole? Do you get used for experiments, or do you use your students, or do you use those zebrafish? No, I use myself a lot. I take my own blood for class, and so i need blood for experiments so i'll just you know sit down and

tie up and take my own blood and you know to to somebody else there's like how do you do that that's insane you know but i just i've been doing it for a long time so it's it's easy it's the beginning of a good science fiction movie i think yeah exactly so yeah i mean i take my own blood all the time i haven't taken muscle um but yeah i guess i guess i experiment on myself too i'm curious about that actually because you were mentioning earlier that when people want to get stem cell treatments sometimes doctors take it from fat and that really doesn't do much um but you know i've heard of people getting stem cell treatments on their elbows, their knees, etc. Some people have reported just miraculous, like, I guess, improvement mean, are you able to get stem cells from your blood yourself? And have you done anything to your joints and seen any type of improvement?

So I haven't done anything to myself, but theoretically you, you know, that would be the safest thing is if you could take, you know, let me just say this, the fat stem cells, they have the capability to turn into like bone and cartilage and basically repair joints as well. So those stem cells, they're not completely worthless. It's more that like, you don't know like the place that's harnessed them and harvested them and process them. Like you don't even know if they're alive anymore. Right. But theoretically, if you could take your own fat stone cells and inject them into like you know a wounded joint theoretically you could repair damage that's going on in there i should

also say that you know just what what people really need to do is just do kind of like sham surgeries too on the side which is basically like sometimes just sticking a needle into the joint is going to cause inflammation and it's going to cause your body to repair the damage that's there anyway so it's almost like you you can induce you know the repair yourself um that doesn't work that doesn't work in all cases right um but sometimes like creating like inflammation or like doing that can can cause repair you don't need stem cells at all you just need your cells to go in there and fix up the tissue and repair it i mean that's not going to work if you've like torn your acl off right you know yeah um but there are certain

there are are there are there particular stem cells that people should be looking for if they're if they're interested in, in investigating this further, as they have a particular name? Yeah. So, I mean, I would say, I would say it was those ones that I was talking about from the fat. They're called mesenchymal stem cells. Okay. MSCs. Yeah. So like those,

those hold the most promise for things like that you guys are talking about, which is, you know, repairing joints, repairing damaged tissue, things like that you guys are talking about, which is, you know, repairing joints, uh, repairing damaged tissue, um, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. And it seems like there's tons of variables, but is there like a timeframe that one of those stem cells would like start taking effect? Like, like how soon would somebody know, like, ah, I got, I got some bad stem cells versus the, yep, this is working. So, well, the, oh, I got some bad stem cells versus, yep, this is working. Well, okay, so the bad

thing would be like you just don't, nothing happens, right? The worst thing that would happen is you get an infection, right? But of course, that's like, you don't know if there was bacteria or something in that stem cell batch and you just inject that into a joint. You're going to know real fast

and it's going to be pretty terrible um but i i would think i would think you know for repairing damage like that you know a couple days you should you should be able to tell i mean it's going to take a lot it depends on what the damage is right you know if it's just a little bit then it should start happening pretty quickly. The cells grow like crazy. And if they're in the right place, they're going to do what they need to do. But yeah, the scary thing is it's like totally unregulated, right? So you go into some place and you think the person's even a doctor.

They don't even need to be like a medical doctor, right, to do some of these procedures. And it's pretty scary. I'd imagine this quarantine is probably about to be lifted. Do you think we'll end up going back to quarantine? Or do you like? Yeah, same here. But it seems like it could be a possibility, huh? It seems like it could be a possibility, huh? Yeah, I think it's a possibility. But, I mean, it really does seem like everybody's getting ready to lift things, you know, and kind of relax the regulations. But, yeah, we'll just see. I mean, more people are going to get contaminated with the virus for sure. So I'm just worried about how weird it's going to be.

Like when people trying to go back to work and trying to socially distance that it's going to be real strange. It's going to be a real strange couple of months. Yeah. Everyone wearing masks and suits and gloves and trying to keep away from each other and all that stuff. Right. Yeah.

Do you feel like masks or even, I mean, masks and gloves and trying to keep away from each other and all that stuff, right? Yeah. Do you feel like masks or even, I mean, masks and gloves, like your average person, like we're not in a lab like yourself, so we don't know shit about, you know, what to do with masks and stuff. Do you think it's even worth utilizing? So the only thing a mask does for this is really just prevent you from spreading the virus. Right. So, like, I think I think a lot of people think that they're wearing a mask to protect themselves. But really, all they're doing is they're stopping themselves from spitting all over everything that's spreading the virus. So so masks, I would say, like, you know, like if like do you really think cutting a T-shirt up and putting it on your face is like going to prevent you from getting a virus? Like no way, man, it's crazy talk. But I mean, it does prevent

you from sneezing all over the place, but you know, you shouldn't be sneezing all over the place anyway for gloves for gloves. It's like, honestly, I don't understand why people wear gloves because you know, they'll be wearing gloves and then they're touching their face and then they're touching their phone and then they're touching their face, and then they're touching their phone, and then they're touching the shopping cart, and then they're touching their car door handle. It's the same as your hand, man. You're just moving things around. I even see people, like I saw some people the other day that were wearing knit gloves.

And I'm like, that's like a sponge. You're just wearing two sponges around on your hands. I don't know what you're doing, but it's not helping. That's for sure. You know, I was actually really curious about this. I wanted to mention this as a good note.

I got, I got a client over in New York and his mom had cancer and she got COVID. She got Corona also, but she had very, like she recovered pretty quick. So, I mean, obviously that's just one single anecdotal case. And she, like, she was going through treatment for cancer at the time, but it's like, you know,

typically you hear like people with cancer are just going to die when they get this. But I guess, you know, like, like you were mentioning, there are different severities that people will get this and that's good to realize. Yeah. It's really going to depend on your genetics like how your body processes that virus and like in that case that person probably just was was fine with clearing it you know and this makes me quite i want to ask you one more thing because like a few weeks ago or maybe it was last week i was hearing uh i think

peter attia was mentioning a little bit of it. He didn't go too deep, but he was talking about how like, um, they're finding that certain blood types manage this better is the, was there like, is there currently efficacy to that? Do you know of that? Like you heard that before? I don't, I don't know anything about, I don't know anything about different blood types. Um, I would doubt it. Like the difference between blood types

is it's kind of i would doubt i would doubt that it matters on your blood type i think it more matters on on the way that your body like handles viruses um which might have been like what they were trying to say like in a you know like trying to make it less complicated um but like just like whether you're a positive or a negative i don't think it's going to have much of a much of a difference with uh your years in the lab um do you think it's possible that this thing was created in a lab yeah for sure i mean i i'm not saying that it was right right? But it's like, it would be so easy to do it. Like, it's really not hard. You know, I can order DNA sequences from a company for whatever I want.

I just type in the letters and they will send me the DNA in a tube. And I could put together a variety of those different things and put them in a cell and make a virus. I mean, we do that all the time. We actually make viruses in the lab, so that we can infect other cells, right? So like we make, we make these viruses. I mean, we don't make COVID, right? We're making viruses for to do good things, on the right yeah i mean there's there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't have been generated i don't think that it was but you're not going to be able to find out if it was or if it wasn't honestly is this a stuff is this a common practice like uh do people tamper with viruses to maybe try to get ahead?

You know, do people maybe say like, hey, well, you know, this is a possibility of a virus that could happen. And so we want to have we want to make vaccines for it. And so, like, is that people do like I'm unaware of people if we've been doing that throughout our history? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, so when people are trying to study viruses, yeah, they'll try to manipulate things in the genome of the virus to see, like, maybe it infects a little bit stronger. And maybe we should be worried about this variety of virus. So, yeah, people do it. I mean, and clearly, you know, I don't have any insight on this, really. But, I mean, why wouldn't governments be weaponizing viruses too

i mean that's not a terrible you know we have stockpiles of smallpox i'm sure and i'm sure the soviet union has stockpiles of smallpox and you know if you had let that go right now it would be terrible because no one has immunity to smallpox like you guys haven't gotten smallpox vaccines have you like it was like i think they stopped it in the it's like you would know you have like a little scar it's like this like round scar on your arm do you know what i'm talking about yeah yeah so that was the smallpox vaccine so like you know older people have it but probably not most of the people on planet earth right now and if that got out of a lab it would be bad that sounds scary um so if no no worries that's great um so if viruses are

fairly easy to make um what about like anti-viruses then yeah so so i should say they're easy to make but like companies that that like synthetically generate all that dna usually what they do is they check so like if i sent in like a sequence that looked like a weird virus they would basically probably call the fbi and be like hey this guy's trying to make this weird virus right now. That being said, yeah, I mean, there's lots of people working on antiviral technology. It's just really hard because what viruses do is they kind of hijack you. So viruses aren't alive. They're just these chunks of protein and DNA or RNA, just basically genetic material. And what they do is they get inside of you and they trick your body into making more of them. So it's really hard. It's really

hard to fight them off because what you're trying to do is you're trying to, you have to teach your body to like not respond to them. You know, I'm first off, I'm really happy that you said what you said earlier about like i mean i'm not saying that this was made in the lab or anything but like last i think it was uh three three or so weeks ago there were some people going back and forth on cnn and and they were saying it's absolutely impossible for for us to be able to make something like this in the lab right but it's just funny that that like because like people like oh no there's no app there's absolutely no way that that's even remotely possible but you obviously

with your expertise you know it's it actually is just it's a possible thing to do not saying it was done but it's very possible to do so it's it's good that you shared that with us because a lot of people that i know are like that's absolutely absolutely 100% false. And some of them are in like doctors, etc. So it's just kind of interesting, I guess. I think that I think that anyone who's a scientist that tells you like something is 100% like impossible to do, like they're, they're not a good scientist, right? Like, because there's always a possibility to do this kind of stuff, right? I can never tell you with like hundred percent certainty, whether something was done in a certain way. Right. I mean, there's always, there's always some way around, uh, that issue. Yeah. I mean, do I think it was made in a lab? I don't, but I have no

reason to say that. Right. I have no evidence to either way. Right. Yeah. But, but how about this? Like, even if it was, who cares? Right. Like we still need to get rid of it. Right. It's still a problem. Right. So like if it was engineered, if it was this terrible experiment engineered in China and like let loose on the population, what the hell are we going to do about it? You know, we still need to, we still need to make a vaccine against it. Right. Yep. And on that note, actually, you were mentioning that, you know, when the vaccine comes out, you take it, obviously, you have all these individuals who are like anti-vaxxers and no to vaccines. And it seems

that you're not like that. So can you explain to some of the audience, what would potentially be the benefit of taking it? And also, do you think that for an individual who's like, I really don't want to take that? Are they taking a risk? Or are they pretty much okay? And I want to preface this with saying I haven't had a flu vaccine since I was 16. Not because like, like, not because I don't like taking vaccines. I just don't like needles. And I mean, I've been cool. So what are your opinions on that? Sure.

I mean, I think that there's a lot of communicable diseases that are really, really dangerous. Right. So, I mean, measles, mumps, rubella, all these things, they're super dangerous. So you're probably not debating that polio is a terrible disease right we don't see people with polio anymore because we we're all vaccinated against polio or at least the majority of us are and then polio can't gain kind of a foothold in the population so like coronavirus you know like we were talking about what what's the what's the fatality rate of it right we don't know So if it's really low,

do we really need to have everybody vaccinated against it? No, we don't. But it's, it's more of just kind of like a, it's a social practice, right. So that you're not spreading it to like, maybe, you know, like if you were, if you were at home taking care of your 80 year old grandma and she's got respiratory problems, then I would say, get the vaccine, man. You know, like if you were at home taking care of your 80-year-old grandma and she's got respiratory problems, then I would say get the vaccine, man. You know, like don't spread it to her. So this is like a tough one. You know, I would probably take the vaccine just because I have little kids. But I'm with you.

I don't always get the influenza vaccine every year either. And it's not because I'm scared of the influenza vaccine. It's just because I don't even think about it because I never get influenza. Yeah. I know that sounds bad, you know, and maybe I'm getting it and spreading it to other people. But it's just not if you're a healthy individual. And I work at a college, man.

So like these kids are sick, like all the time. And I just do not get sick. I have a good immune system. Yeah, that sounds bad. That sounds bad for the immunology professor to tell you. I would say I would say that I would say that one thing, though, you know, all these risks that people think vaccines have have they're they're really unfounded like all this all this causing autism mmr like that it's been disproven like a million

times that that causes autism it really does not cause autism so if you're like worried about like your kid getting first of all it's also kind of too. So like what you're saying is you're saying is I'd rather have my kid die than get autism. Right. So like, that's, that's pretty fucked up if you think about it on, on, on that level too. But it's, it's just the autism, like those symptoms present at the same time that you're taking those, those vaccines. And so you get the vaccine and you think your kid got autism, but no, autism is likely genetic. And your kid had autism before you just didn't notice it

until, you know, it's correlating with a vaccine. So I would say, I would say, everything has a risk, right? And so like, what what you're asking is, like, is the risk of Coronavirus worth the risk of like an adverse reaction with the with the vaccine usually there's no adverse reactions with vaccines so i would say yeah sure like why not take it um but you know it's especially it's especially crazy for like these diseases that can like wipe out popular like measles is crazy like measles can alter your immune system for the rest of your life and i think that people are like oh it's no big deal i got measles when i was a kid like yeah but your immune

system is not as good as it was before you had measles um so with like the flu shot it seems like we almost never get it right um are you confident that when the uh this this vaccine comes to fruition do you think that we will get it right yeah i think that it depends how they make it and the technology behind that is changing a lot so i think that i think that they're more likely to get it right this time influenza is really crazy it's really hard to guess what version of influenza is going to be out there. And it takes a long time to make the vaccines. And I think what people are realizing now is like, we need a different way to make vaccines. And so I think that there's, there's different technology now that's coming on the market to basically make these vaccines faster and more

effective. And so I think, I think once that rolls out, I think, yeah, it should be, it should be good, but yeah, exactly what you're saying, which is, you know, you make the vaccine. I don't know if you guys remember like H5N1, you know, what, like 12 years ago or something, like we basically made a vaccine. And by the time we made the vaccine, the pandemic was basically over. We had already cleared it from the population. Like that's how long it took to make the vaccine. I just fear that that's exactly what's going to happen here, which is like, we're going to have this, you know,

we requested this peak and now we're coming down and then we're going to be like, we have the vaccines because it's not even here anymore. Why are we excited about this? But I guess we'll see. And then next year it'll probably be different. So then we'll have to make, you're always playing catch up,

right? Have you been able to sleep with two little twins running around? Yeah. Luckily, luckily they're good sleepers. So that's nice. Yeah. Now they are before the first year, the first year it was pretty rough. I don't know. I don't know if you guys have kids, but I have kids. Yeah. Yeah. The first year was pretty tough. Doctor, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. You helped, you helped us out tremendously tough doctor thank you so much for your time really appreciate it uh you helped uh you helped us out tremendously so thank you so much cool yeah thanks for having me

have a good rest of your day all right you too all right thanks a lot man shit man that guy was awesome he was the coolest college professor ever yeah he was great i mean he was right down the middle you You didn't hear anything politically charged. He wasn't emotional one way or the other. So, you know, I, I think, you know, he had, he had his vantage point. You know, he had his own, his own thoughts towards certain things, but he was just giving it to you straight after all these years of, you know, being in the lab and all his expertise and education and everything.

I thought that was really cool. Yeah, I really like what he said there at the end with the vaccinations. Just things that I wasn't even considering. Like, if I get the vaccine, then I can go hang out with my parents, that sort of thing. Whereas before, I'm like, I don't want to compromise whatever i got going on by injecting myself with something but that's just that's a it's a new perspective that i didn't have now has that changed my mind no but it's an awesome thing to think about now i really wish we oh i really wish i asked him like maybe you guys can answer this for me how exactly it works because like a vaccine doesn't stop you from being able to get infected.

Or if you get infected, do you just like immediately fight it off? Because I'm like, yeah, vaccine from my understanding, and this is probably not good, but my understanding is it's it's as if you already had it. OK, OK. You know, and sometimes in some cases, but I don't believe I don't believe this is the case with this one in particular, but normally they give you like a dosage of the actual illness itself so that you make the antibodies. But I think, I'm not 100% sure. I shouldn't even bother mentioning. But anyway, my understanding is it's almost as if you were sick.

Yeah. Got it. Yeah. I got my 12-year degree in how the flu vaccine works so don't question it but yeah as far as i understand you get like a dead version of the virus so that way your body recognizes it and can develop the antibodies by like you know like by looking at that replica so that way when it does come around again they're like hey we already messed you up once we're gonna do it again which is why when people do get it they still could get the flu virus because it's a new version of the virus so like and sometimes people even feel sick sometimes after they get the shot that's yeah that's why i said psychological but it could also be physiological you know it could it could you know it could be because you got a little dosage of of the actual

thing itself purely anecdotal and it happened to me and it sucked and this isn't like a reason this isn't why i didn't take vaccines i like said in light needles but the worst flu of my life was when i got my flu when i got my first flu vaccine yeah it was the absolute worst I was throwing up for days yeah that's that's happened to me every time that well not throwing up that bad or anything but from what I understand and I was totally joking about that degree is that uh you already had that virus in you it's just when you got the injection it just kind of like woke it up or something like that. So it was just, it just seems to be always coincidental. Every time you get the flu shot, you get sick.

It's because you already had it. That could very well be it. However, since then, you haven't probably gotten sick from a flu, right? Yeah, so that's the kicker yeah he had some uh great information in there i like the stuff about the stem cells and them uh making uh making that fish meat sounds oh sounds amazing we're gonna have to like go try some of that out that sounds so interesting yeah i would eat that i wonder like uh you know does it still smell like fish does it you know does it does it it sounds to me like it's fake so that it doesn't uh

i mean we didn't really ask about the freshness or anything but it sounds like it doesn't need to be it probably just needs to be cold because it's probably alive probably like well it's probably as alive as your meat is that's in your fridge but um yeah weird interesting yeah i would imagine they could probably make it smell like whatever like you know they're they're making it so maybe they can like remove some like nachos this is this is this would be the cool thing um if like if they're making it from like real like yeah he said he's they're starting they're taking the whatever from real fish and they're growing it right but if they're able to like do that at large scale do you guys know how cheap sashimi

could be if it was like genetically grown sashimi also yeah also too i mean you know you have you have grass-fed beef right and then the people are thinking the benefit of grass fed beef is the ratio, right? Well, if we're going to make fake stuff, we can really, you know, amplify it and make it really nutritionally sound. So you can make, you can make a steak have all the components that liver would have, you could make a hamburger have that you can make bacon have that. And I think that's why, you know, I think that's why people are diving into some of of these things as always there's always like price to pay you know there's always something's got to give you know and when anything's too good to be true there's always always some sort of consequence to it but it's just a really interesting field interesting thing to uh to get into what i found really interesting that he said and this is this was done at Westside barbell by a lot of people. And he was just talking about the needle, like, just like doing your own surgery, which was, which is really a, really an interesting thing. But Louie used to always tell me, he's like,

Oh yeah. He's like, I just inject with saline solution. And I was like saline solution. I was like, that's just, that's just basically like saltwater. And he, and, and I was like, why do you inject saltwater? And he's like, well, he's like, I'm not just going to stab myself with a needle. I'm not crazy. He basically, he basically saying the saline solution doesn't do anything, but he's like, I'm not crazy smelly. He's like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to just going to randomly and shoot hit myself up with a needle for no reason not inject something wow so he's

been doing shams yeah when i heard about that sham surgery thing i was like whoa like just stick a needle in there cause inflammation and potentially heal yourself that's that's cool i wouldn't trust myself though like but that's a really awesome idea yeah what if you hit the wrong i mean like let's just say let's say your knee bugs you and you hit the wrong spot in your knee like what if you're fraying that you know what if you're fraying that little piece that you need like what if you're stabbing but i guess the hole would be so small that it would be it probably wouldn't matter i don't know i would find a way to mess it up for sure yeah we need yeah we need a doctor or something we need a doctor yeah we need a doctor to make like a youtube channel and just have um tutorials on sham surgeries just have him show you where you

need to inject this needle to get the inflammation so you can do it yourself at home the great such a great idea yeah the great thing is he wouldn't actually need to be like a real doctor because these are fake surgeries so fake surgery yeah but there's also like there's been studies where they take like people with knee problems and like half of them they they do the surgery the other half they don't and the ones that they don't they tell them that they did and they actually recover faster than the ones that got it so yeah this is just a lot of that was meniscus stuff too meniscectomies wow i think that's what one of the the tests you're talking about happened like half the group actually got a meniscectomy and half the group didn't and a majority of the group that didn't just totally recovered so it's you're right sometimes you don't need a real

surgery and a meniscectomy that's when you it prevents you from having kids right you guys get it you guys you guys uh getting a workout yet today yeah i hit uh hit up shoulders this morning i did something i've never tried before like uh i was sitting down i did a like a like a shoulder raise with a plate well a 25-pound plate, and then like did twists with it and then down my shoulder. Twist and shout. Yeah. I was shouting. It was bad. Did you shake your butt a little bit too?

I would have if I wasn't sitting down. So, yeah. You got to try to shake the booty in there a little bit once you turn, you know? That thing was, man, that was killer killer. But yeah, so I did that. And then I'll probably do a hike on the treadmill or something later. Yeah. I haven't gotten a workout in yet. I will. After this, I got in a 10 minute, no, probably it was like a 20 something minute squat on Instagram this morning.

It was like 25 minutes. That felt good. Um, but yeah, I have a confession to make. Yesterday, yesterday on Sunday, I only got in one workout. And I want to be truthful to everybody. Today, I'm going to get my two in. You're off the team. Sorry. Does he have to do three, Andrew?

Does he have to do three today? You could do a makeup and then you'll feel better about everything. I could try. I'm going to try and get into makeup. I'll do something now that I'll jump rope later. three today you could do a makeup and then you'll feel better about everything i could try i'm gonna try and get into makeup i'll do something now that i'll jump rope later and then i'll do another kettlebell kettlebell workout at night i've been doing a hundred squats and 100 push-ups every day and that's been feeling really good and today i did it with the weight vest on and that was just that was just horrible i can't even believe doing 20 squats is hard.

Like it's just stupid. Like I, I, the vest is 40 pounds and I'm usually holding, like I hold like a 10 or a 20. It shouldn't be hard, but once I get into like the third round of that, I'm totally dying. My legs are, legs are on fire. And then I was, I was trying to, I was trying to hit, hit up you guys for it, but I didn't hit you guys up early i was i was trying to i was trying to hit up you

guys for it but i didn't hit you guys up early enough i uh was able to do it with jessica i hit her up and and she did uh her 100 reps with uh her her slingshot on and um we went back and forth doing squats and push-ups it was good shoot okay let's do that tomorrow yeah we can yeah yeah yeah let's do that tomorrow morning sounds good that'll be Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do that tomorrow morning. Sounds good. That'll be fun. Yeah, I definitely was dogging it this weekend. Friday, I did a, I've been doing these, they're like walk-run hikes. So, it's like uphill walking and then not as steep like running.

It's been awesome. So, like the whole week week I was climbing up this mountain and then Friday it was like, all right, we're going all the way back down. I'm like, oh shit. So it was a whole like downhill sprint basically. It fucked my knees up. So this, it was bad. Like, you know, we were just talking to Ross Edgley about like, oh, you got to run on your toes and you know, do that. And like, I wasn't expecting to run at all. And then all of a sudden here I am going downhill. I'm like, how the fuck are you supposed to run on your toes downhill? So this weekend, my knee was killing me. My cankles were all sore. It was bad.

You're running downhill on the treadmill. Yeah. Yeah. It goes to like a negative six decline. So it's, it was pretty, yeah. I would just say, don't ever run downhill. Yes. I know that now. It's, it's, uh, and the same thing with like, you know, I know some people have been seeing me with like the weight vest and stuff and it's, it's good to go out there and it's good to be a tough guy and it's good to, it's good to work hard. you know i've been as i've been doing this i'm learning you know and and running running where there's a step higher than where your foot

is each time works great so like a hill is fantastic a um stairs are great but if you have a weight vest on you're trying to do a regular run, as Ross was pointing out, you know, you're four or five times the amount of pressure on each side. And you might be like, ah, screw that. I can handle it. And you might be able to handle it, but you probably, you know, most likely are only going to be able to handle it for a little bit. And we don't want to see that happen. And for me, with my knee, it's like it's just been a little, my right knee is flared up. I've had this since i

was a teenager basically um i just i have a little bit of like jumper's knee it will get inflamed a little bit with some tendonitis and then usually it just you know miraculously goes away at some point but but anyway yeah running downhill is is tough and uh i would i would advise especially if you're newer to running what i was doing on instagram the other day makes you look like a maniac makes you look like a weirdo but i would advise going down like sideways if you're going to try to still run so you almost do like a basketball slide or um or you can your your front foot could be pointed straight and your other foot and your body could be kind of this way and And you each time it just watched the video each time lean to the side of the hill and it makes it

a lot less stressful, but yeah, just trying to figure out how to make these workouts. It's funny. I texted Jessica this morning and said, I've never worked out so much in my life. I'm just like working out nonstop. I'm like working out and eating, working out and eating, working out and eating. I'm like working out and eating working out and eating working out and eating i feel like an athlete over here seriously it's not funny though like you're not using the gym but you're working out more it's i don't know i think it's just a it's a funny irony here yeah and i've been so list like watching you and stuff i've been doing um a lot of like the kettlebell stuff and i was just joking on my instagram i'm like i never thought i would dislike the numbers 21 15 9 so much because i was like oh like i'll just do like some snatches each each each side

21 59 how bad can it be and i'm like that was bad that was real bad so been, yeah, it's been fun getting creative. And then also I mentioned this before, like the anxiety, um, not that it's bad. It's, it's fun. We all love going to the gym, but like for me personally, like, Oh, I have to get everything ready. I don't want to forget something because once I go to the gym, I'm going to stay there and work. So it's like, Oh, I got to get everything going to, to, to now it's like, I wake up and whatever shirt I'm wearing, you know, just, just train in that and then take a shower after it's been Now it's like I wake up and whatever shirt I'm wearing, you know, just just train in that and then take a shower after it's been, it's been pretty nice. There's no barrier stopping it. Correct. Yeah. I think this is a way that people should always treat their fitness,

you know, like just, you know, treat it, treat it like a 10 minute walk, you know, treat it as if it's just going to be something simple and something that you can repeat. It doesn't always have to be this, uh this workout where you're dripping with sweat from head to toe, although those workouts are great and those are probably going to be the most beneficial. But even just hitting a couple squats and a couple push-ups throughout the day, just doing 10 and 10 and just do it a bunch of different times. Somebody told me the other day that they, just do it a bunch of different times. Somebody told me the other day that they, for every hour they were awake, they did 20 squats and 20 pushups. And I was just like,

shit, man, that's probably a lot of work at the end of the day. You might do 200 of each. And it's just like, you're chipping away, right? And Jordan Sia has been doing 300 pushups a day. He's trying, somebody told him that it's impossible to do 100 push-ups in 100 seconds. And so he's all fired up. So he's trying to get after that. I don't know. I mean, it's obviously not impossible. People can do all kinds of freaky things. But that would be a difficult one to try to figure out.

Yeah, Chef Rush could probably do it in half that. He could. Chef Rush could do do it in half that. He could. No, Chef Rush could do it for sure. A hundred and a hundred. But yeah, no, this quarantine has been, it's been given us a lot of opportunity to do new things. Like I've been doing more pushup work now too. And that SI issue that I'm not SI issue, the clavicle issue that I've been having here

has been getting better as I've been doing more pushups. So it's, there are small things that are just getting better. There's a bunch of things that we can improve on. That's what people need to remember. We don't need a barbell to still get improvement in terms of our fitness. What's you guys thinking of that Jordan documentary? You both watching it? Amazing.

Incredible. What I love most about it is it's gonna show people exactly why jordan was the best um that's that was my first takeaway for sure but i also had no idea that pippin was paid so little that is crazy yeah that made me so feel so like bad for him because he was such a good player. That's fucked up. Yeah, I found it all to be very interesting, too, because he's with the most iconic person of all time. He's with the guy who's made the most money.

Jordan can't be like, can you hook scotty up with a nike deal or whatever i i don't i i don't know i don't know what their relationship was like when it comes to that sort of thing or whatever but um yeah it's all just it's it's all really interesting and i was also shocked to hear the way that pippin started to act but he must have just been super frustrated with how he was treated. Um, and he must've been like when he was, he just kind of continually made fun of,

uh, uh, the Kraus. Yeah. Kraus. Like, and that, I mean,

that's just like, I don't know. That's really ugly. It's like, you'd be better off just saying, Hey man, like I fucking hate the way i'm being treated this this is bullshit you know i don't i just i was like wow that's so but what what i was thinking when

i heard that side of it i was like oh well maybe i don't know maybe he was a little bit hard to work with so maybe that's why they weren't paying him you know what what he deserved or whatever like there was probably a reason for it. It sounded like the main reason was that the contract that they gave him just was not good. And he kind of signed it anyway and was kind of stuck, stuck in that. I mean, that's what his, I think it was his attorney that was talking about. He was like, I told him not to ever sign that contract, but it wasn't,

it wasn't his attorney. It was like, um, it was the general manager, I think. Yeah. Or that, that guy, like he was either owner or general manager. That was like, I told him not to sign it, you know, but Pippen like, yeah. But what I, I think one thing that I'm not surprised about was Michael's digging at that Krauser guy, because you heard, I mean, that you've heard of like some of the things that apparently Michael has said to his teammates, like you've heard reports of that he would like just absolutely make them

feel like shit so oh yeah that wasn't too surprising yeah you tear into him i was also shocked too to hear jordan uh like cussing so much and then also i think i think he's got like booze next to him too it looks like he has like a little thing of liquor next to him so all that was a little odd to me because I'm like, you know, a lot of people watching this are going to, not that I care. I think it's cool that he'd let it fly. And I'm sure. And it just shows that his still emotional attachment to everything. Right. But I just,

I found it to be interesting because I'm like, man, there's a lot of young kids that are probably going to watch this. I've never seen him do his thing. I don't know. And now they're going to be kind of seeing that. Like I, for me, I was a little disappointed.

Cause I'm like, ah, they're going to see kind of some of the wrong shit about him almost, you know, but, uh, I'm sure he doesn't give a fuck. Right.

No, we can just tell everybody that it was iced tea, you know, same color. Definitely tequila. Definitely his tequila. For sure. Yo, but I will say this. One thing that got me super fired up was seeing how like you, you heard his high school basketball stories where like he didn't even make

the varsity team as a freshman or sophomore. And then you heard his, his, how is someone from his college basketball team or was a coach or something saying, yeah, when he came in here, he wasn't the best on the team. You know, there were guys that were like, yeah, I was beating him one-on-one back then. But like, that's the thing. Like you hear about his work ethic, like he wasn't the best just stepping on, but that work ethic, that insane work ethic and always trying to improve,

always trying to figure out what am i doing wrong here what am i doing there that turned him into the best basketball player we've ever seen it's not like he was always the best basketball player ever which is what a lot of people think right and he did get really good early on you know he did get you know he he when he's at north carolina like he was one of the better players and but uh i think it was roy williams who's a you know legendary basketball coach he was a of the better players. And, but, uh, I think it was Roy Williams. Who's the legendary basketball coach. He was a coach at North Carolina. He's like, yeah, we just, we thought, ah, we would invite him out and, you know, see, see what he does. And we,

we were thinking, you know, he's, he's a great player, like no question. But then he's like, by the time he left, which was, I think just a few weeks later, by the time he left, we knew he was the best basketball player we'd ever seen. And that's amazing. And then also I found it interesting, too, because I forget that, you know, I was super young when some of the stuff was going on. But, like, when he gets hurt and he reaches down and grabs his ankle,

he's wearing, like, the Jordans. Like, he's wearing the Jordans. And I was like, I kind of forgot that he was, like, Air Jordan, like, so early on. Like, out of the jump, out of the gate, he was he was like air jordan like so early on like out of the jump out of the gate he was already like a badass and he talked about how much confidence he had when he played against the celtics and i just i remember that era and i remember things being like that like when someone popped on the scene it was like just i don't know the companies invested everything they could in them and and the the fans invested everything but now it's like there's so many people that are there's so many people with

millions of followers it's kind of it's diluted right so you don't know is this guy really you know all that is this guy really something you you kind of don't they say it about everybody so you don't know like ufc is really guilty of that you're like this is the best guy to ever step into the octagon and they go crazy and you're like he's won three championship fights you're like get the fuck out of here it's not the best guy you know but they they they're trying to they're trying to really hype it up you know yeah I can't believe that Chicago like the Bulls were that terrible before uh Jordan got there you know that's again so like, he made it to the league a year before I was born. So, obviously, I didn't, you know, experience any of the stuff before.

But I was like, no way. Like, in my whole lifetime, like, the Bulls emblem is, like, it means so freaking much. Like, that to me is, like, greatness, right? Like, you see it, you know it, you recognize it. So to think that at one point, like that was garbage, like that is mind blowing. But also that story of him, like when he was talking about, like when he went to the hotel room and he was seeing lines of coke, alcohol, women. And he was just like, peace, just go on and cooking his food. That was the funniest thing.

That was so good. Yeah. I mean, young Jordan, I think can teach us like so many things, like maybe even more than older Jordan, but like that, like everything in college too,

when he's like, I want to be the best player like that's ever played. And then he's like, Oh, where are you going to his coach who, uh, he said it was Roy Williams, Mark.

Okay, man, that I can't wait to rewatch all of that because he's like oh where you're gonna his coach who uh he said it was roy williams mark okay man that i can't wait to re-watch all that because he's just like oh like yeah you're gonna have to work you know way harder than everybody else then he's like but in high school i just did what everyone else did and he's like oh my mistake i thought you said you wanted to be the best ever never mind and so like he's like i'm gonna show you it's like oh shit here we go like so you know and then his coach saying like oh like yeah you probably shouldn't come back another year you need to go pro like that would never happen these days you know obviously the players do their one and done now but man like what an amazing coach yeah jordan just had he had it all when i came when it came to being able to score

you know he just had so many different facets of his game sometimes some of the bigger guys some of the bigger basketball players you know like a carl malone or some of the or even like a larry bird who's like six foot nine um they have a lot of really good footwork they can dribble well and they can create enough space between them and the opponent to where they can get a really good shot off. Or like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the ultimate example of that with his, his hook shot. Like he just needed just a little bit of room and he could toss the ball in

the basket every single time. But Jordan, you know, he wasn't, you know, he was six, five, six,

six, and he had to kind of create space with his body with his speed but he could also drive the lane and and dunk all over people he was extremely explosive um but the the way that he would arrive at shots was was different than most people the way he was able to like step away from somebody or create space with a little nudge of like his forearm or i mean it was, it was like masterful. It was like unbelievable to watch. And I think when you later saw Kobe Bryant playing,

that's where you saw like, you know, Kobe just mimicked so many of those things and he was able to kind of find his, some of his own, some of his own rhythm and some of his own shots, his own, his own way. But, andordan was just so good at that it's it's it's a weird skill set to think about you know it's like oh well i gotta be good at shooting but man there's so much more to it because you have to get away from the other guy you have to be able and jordan could jump like crazy so i mean he could hit you know he can jump high enough to be like over you but even with that he still has to get enough space away from you to be able to see the basket,

you know, the right way. That was one of the more surprising things that I saw. Like there was a picture of him in college jumping for a jump shot. Right. And you see a lot of guys in the NBA, like take jump shots, but the amount of air that they have underneath them,

when they do like, when they, when they hop up for that, it's not comparable. Like, it's like he'd spring up and he's already above you for that jump shot it's crazy yeah i thought it was pretty funny how it had like all the uh the centers in the league were like ah yeah there's no way that a short uh a smaller player could you know be dominant in this league blah blah

it's like oh man and then of course you know like kind of on the same lines about people being wrong about it like man sam bowie bowie being a second round pick over jordan because they already had drexler which i understand and i don't necessarily blame them for it but man that's gotta hurt portland so bad to pass on him it's it's uh jordan you know was so like quick and explosive i mean you really haven't seen another player i mean i guess kobe would be the only thing like lebron is a different is a different player lebron's probably faster than jordan was lebron is like just a complete mutant athlete but i would i would say that jordan was quicker know, he was kind of a quicker first step, a quicker, a quicker burst, but it's, it's yes. It's just, it's cool for me to have like, you know,

watch so many of his games. And like I've told you guys before, I got an opportunity to see him in a playoff game and, and, you know, live in person and stuff like that. And it was just, he is, it's just a amazing athlete but what i saw in the documentary was like all the off the court stuff being like just as important as the actual game itself you know how how you play the game of life is uh probably the most important thing because there's probably other guys that have been through the league who have the same uh the same skill set as jordan you know as crazy as that might sound the same genetics or same you know they have a lot of the qualities that he had

look at russell westbrook yeah then they're not able to control themselves maybe off the court as much or even not like not like they're out of control off the court but maybe just they don't know how to deflect just all that. It's got to be impossible. I don't know how anybody would be able to do it. Yeah, no, you're totally right. There are a lot of guys in the NBA that have the hops or have the quickness, but they just can't put it together like he did. But one thing I really can't wait for is I want to see i'm excited for them to like uh get into the

gambling stuff because you hear a lot about it how like he'd be at a casino it's like the night before a game or something or he wouldn't get much sleep or something he'd come and he'd kill it like i wonder if they're gonna have any of that on camera or if not we'll see he was always so far ahead of everybody that that all he was always thinking about is like how to play games with people so like some of the stuff i've heard is that like he would you know let's say he was always thinking about is like how to play games with people. So like some of the stuff I've heard is that like he would, you know, let's say he was traveling with us and he would say, Hey, and Seema, like I bet you that my bag comes out first, you know, and you'd be like, what, how do you like, why would your bag come out first? And he,

and it'd be like, Hey, what do you want to bet? And you know, you bet like a hundred bucks or something. And then he would get, he would tip somebody like 20 bucks or 40 bucks to get his bag out, to make sure his bag comes out first, but he would do it without you knowing it. And so he played these like mind games on people. And then his bag would come out first and he'd be like, how the fuck did his bag come out first out of all these different bags that we got, you know, and he would make 60 bucks off the deal. But I mean,

only a person that's ahead of everybody else could even entertain like thinking like that because otherwise you're thinking about oh we're we're playing against the utah jazz tonight and i gotta you know i got these assignments i gotta remember these plays like everyone else is all anxious and thinking about you know where they're gonna um you know where they're gonna party after the game and like all these are thinking of 9,000 different things, but he's always 10 steps ahead of everybody else. I can't believe Kraus going into the 97 season being like – A fat little hobbit. Yeah, that and being like,

oh, this is the greatest basketball team ever assembled. After this year, we're done. Like, what are you – like, just unbelievable. Like, I was just blown away that they you know already had predetermined that that was going to be the case i'm excited to see some of the stuff with the pistons coming up because the pistons beat the shit out of him it was so good uh i don't do you know anything about that in sema i've heard about it yeah how they had the uh it was like they're the ones with the jordan defense right how they just literally just like fly on him and just they had they had the actual they were called the jordan rules jordan rules there it is yeah and i don't i don't know

like uh if they'll if they'll actually show like all the they they literally had a list of rules for him but i mean the main rules just kind of beat the hell out of them the main thing they taught too was just like don't let him fly you know don't let him get through the air so they would just anytime he would jump they'd just try to fuck him up yeah i'm trying to remember i think he was a power forward might have even been a center but i oh my god bill lambeer would just be like they're not gonna call a foul every single time so they would just fuck him up and just like brute like physically like just like not even fouling them like just fucking throwing them around and being like they can't call a foul every single time and oh my gosh dude

so bad bill and beer is he's got a great story there's a story on the detroit pistons and uh that era of basketball and and uh he you know he he's like everyone hates him everyone always hated bill lambert so he started fights he was a dirty player he was obviously a very good player but he wasn't as talented as a lot of other guys so he had to use like a lot of grit um but he would just annoy people he'd get in fights all the time and then another reason why another reason for people to hate him is that he grew up really wealthy. Here he is playing with all these other guys that maybe grew up not as fortunate as he did. the nba and becomes one of the better better players in the league and he buys a house and um he buys a house on the same street that like bill and beer grew up on bill and beer's like he's like oh i heard you moved next to my parents or something like that and he's and then isaiah thomas was like what he's like you grew up in that neighborhood he's like

you fucking asshole it's like holy shit cute you got a house next to my parents that's funny but it's crazy even even so like nba players then they made money but it's crazy to like see how much more money nba players make now like scottie pippen's uh six year 18 million dollar deal and we got nba players that are doing like three for like 90 and stuff like that three years for like 90 million like that's crazy yeah pippin signing a seven-year deal that's unheard of i don't care who you are how much money they're gonna pay you nobody takes like i mean a five-year deal is like holy shit this guy's here for life but the guy took seven.

I was like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. And then it was a different time, but I hadn't thought about that, about somebody being like, man, you should go do some McDonald's commercials to make up for the money right now. And then once you become a free agent, we'll figure it out. But yeah, today, players will figure it out like players come out of college with like their own logos and name brands of like apparel and stuff right right so that way they can make up for some of the costs or whatever it may be and i just think it was just

it was just a combination of things like bad timing for pippen and then also i mean shit you're playing alongside the best player ever so So, yeah, it's tough. You know what's funny? Have you guys heard who LaMelo Ball is? Yeah. You heard of him? Yeah. You remember LaVar Ball, Lonzo Ball?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. LaMelo Ball is the younger brother, the youngest brother, who's like 6'7 now. He's probably going to be one of the top draft picks next year. But he was playing in Australia and apparently him and his manager, Jermaine Jackson purchased an Australian, a national basketball team. Wow. Yeah. So, so like, this is a thing, like he's, he hasn't even hit the NBA yet, but like there are these college, like, like NBA players that have a lot of followers that have like some people that are helping them with business that are making big old moves before they get into the nba it's crazy yeah it is wild yeah one thing i

another thing i liked about the film was uh seeing the way that jordan handled um his coach not allowing him to get back in the game when it's like 30 seconds left and they and they lost i love that he like he didn't do anything at the moment you know he didn't like lose his cool or whatever he was just chilling on the bench and then when they got in the locker room he like closed the door and like you know i think they had like a meeting about it they didn't really say a ton about what he said but i i like the fact that he just he kind of he kind of kept to himself for a minute and then he expressed to his team, like, this is bullshit. Like we got to still figure out ways to win. You know,

you never, you never play to lose and that kind of stuff. And I thought that was, I think there's a lot of great characteristics. And I think Andrew, you hit the nail on the head saying that there's a lot of good things to learn. You know, I hope a lot of people watch it. I think that was the second episode, right? Yeah. Yeah. I hope a lot of people watch it and check it out because it's,

there's so much to learn from it. Is that the one that like, am I mistaken? Or was that the game that like he was taking out that white guy ended up making the last shot. So they won. But Kraus was pissed because like now they're in the playoffs and they were trying to like they were trying to tank so they could get better uh draft position but still yeah that's did you see that move that jordan put i mean he put a lot of moves on bird because he scored like 63 points the most iconic through the leg yeah where he goes

through the like what the like how like just can't even can't even halfway mimic anything that resembles that and even try to bother even trying to make a shot you know what i mean like and then meanwhile you have one you know one of the all-time greats guarding you i i realize larry bird is not really nearly as quick as jordan is but he still is a hall of famer you know and know, and it's just ridiculous. I thought it was also really cool, and this is probably my favorite part, is that Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, they knew. Like, I thought that was cool.

I thought they were like, hey, like, here's the savior of the entire league. Like, let's just watch this thing grow, let's let's uh let's be um let's be like cool with it rather than like being a dick because they were like no he's the best player period they're like there's no no reason for him to pile up a bunch of championships like we don't need to wait 10 years he's the best goddamn player in the league by far i thought that was amazing because those guys those guys are i mean those guys are some of the best players of all time. Larry Bird called him God. I think that was the funniest thing. Yeah. That was crazy.

Yeah. And these are, these are old school players, right? Like these are hardcore, like they're not going to give up any, any ground. They're not going to let you get any leverage on them. And then, yeah, here's a, you you know magic and bird both multi-championship winners mvps the absolute cream of the crop being like uh this little guy's gonna kick our ass and it's crazy because he was still like what year two or year three he wasn't a rookie that season they were talking about it but it was like year two or year three that they were saying this about him like he was yeah saying i can't wait till they get into more of like jordan in practice

because they showed a little bit of it of him yelling and stuff but like i i heard of the story about him like straight up punching uh steve kerr like in practice so it's like man i i want to see i want to hear steve ker talk about it. Hopefully he does. But that, you know, that kind of stuff is great too, because it shows you that like, you know, like Steve Kerr must have been reactive enough to have a fight, you know, and that shows you that both guys care so much about what they're doing. Maybe like a fight isn't the best way to resolve it, but maybe they can't communicate to figure out a way to resolve the conflict. But I always thought that like we had fights in football practice and stuff all the

time. My coach always talked about how he was like, Hey, you know, I don't want you guys acting irrational and hurting each other, but you guys care. We give a shit. We want to win, you know? And it's, it's because somebody, you know, continues to jump off sides or somebody continues to hold or not run the play the right way. And you're just, you're also tired too. And that's another thing with practices, you're tired and you're the practice of trying to make something perfect is excruciating. And it is like super frustrating. You're trying to be better than you were yesterday. And when it's not working out, it makes you so mad. I think jujitsu is a great example of that because in the beginning your your mind your mind is like in a knot you're like i remember how to get out of this

last time but i can't i can't figure it out this time boom there you get tapped out and even worse when you're trying to figure out an offensive move you're like i have the guy's arm but i can't do anything with it because you can't remember what what you did and it just is can be really really frustrating yeah that's the whole that's that's the whole journey and it happens all the way through all belts although it gets a little bit easier to deal with but yeah you're exactly right man done dennis rodman when you get more when we get to see more of him that's going to be fun because we barely we haven't even we haven't gotten to dennis rodman yet so that's going to be good i think that's we haven't even, we haven't gotten to Dennis Rodman yet. So that's going to be good. I think that's the next episode, right?

Really? Oh, I know that. Okay. Sick. Yeah. It is weird how they keep jumping back and forth, but man, I just, I love all of it though. It's so, it's perfect. You guys hear about what Snoop Dogg said today for today? Oh, leave out. Yeah. Leave out some milk and cookies for him. Oh, it's four 20. It's four 20.

I'm assuming that means he's going to be like Santa Claus and drop off a lot of weed. Everybody. I don't know. Got it. Or maybe he's just hungry. I'm not sure. It's the munchies or yeah.

Or he's going to be gifting people. We, Oh God. Terrible. Now you guys are good. I know you guys are going to go get high as fuck right now, right? I'm good. I'm okay. Yeah, not me.

Andrew, that didn't sound legit, actually. No. You're like, not me. Oh, because I'm already paranoid because I'm high as fuck already. I feel it, bro. I'm feeling rough. Alright guys, Andrew, take us on out of here, buddy. Thank you everybody for checking out this episode. I can't wait to talk more about

the last dance in future episodes. Shout out to Perfect Keto for sponsoring this episode. If you guys can, please follow up and check out the links in the YouTube description and iTunes show notes. Please make sure you're following the podcast at Mark Bell's power project on Instagram at MB power project on Tik TOK and Twitter.

My Instagram is at I am Andrew Z and in SEMA. People want to get in touch with you. Where are you at? And see my anything on Instagram and YouTube and see my union on Tik TOK and Twitter. All links are on Instagram. Mark. Oh,

Hey peeps. Look at this. This is aapthor Bjornsson. I don't know if you can see that there. Oh. Want to have a chat tomorrow? This is going to be good.

When's tomorrow? Yeah, I know. Exactly. When is tomorrow? Icelandic time zone. Yeah, soon. I'll hit him up and see what we can get going. I know exactly when is tomorrow. Slendic time zone suit. Yeah. Soon. I'll hit him up and see what we can see what we can get going. And in SEMA, I let him know that you,

you thought you could tap him out very, very easily. So you'll have to answer some questions about that tomorrow. You know, I'd be down to roll with Thor. I think he would be like Hulk smash me, but have you ever seen him? Have you ever seen him box? I saw him like him versus Conor McGregor or something. Yeah. Well he, he did, he did some boxing against, um,

like a professional boxer and he, he did awesome. Like he did. So it was, it was completely like unbelievable to me and people were just shredding him apart. I mean, he got his ass kicked, you know, he got, he eventually got his ass kicked, but Holy man he did he did he did amazing i mean he was going against another heavyweight i mean like if you don't know how to box i mean that would be like somebody going against you in jujitsu and and doing really well it wouldn't it doesn't make any sense if you don't have if you've never done any jujitsu yeah and i don't think he's done much boxing but i was like,

holy shit, man. I mean, he was throwing some bombs too. It was like, it was terrifying. It's on YouTube. You guys should check it out sometime.

It was pretty cool. But yeah, hopefully we can get, uh, have Thor Bjornsson on the show. That would be, uh, that would be really cool.

Try to keep, try to keep up with your, uh, with your pushups and your quarantine doubles. Yeah. You know, we're, we're, we're keeping, keeping fresh with them and SEMA missed a day, but he's going to make it up to you guys. Don't worry about it. Um,

and, uh, the, the a hundred pushups, a hundred squats. I mean, you know, do 10 back and forth until you get to a hundred or whatever way you got to space it out. Maybe you suck at pushups and you can only do five at a time, just whatever way, whatever way you can get yourself to 100 even if it's just doing 10 or 20 uh kind of throughout the day i'm gonna get on out of here and uh go hit up workout number two strength is never weakness weakness never strength catch y'all later bye