Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 435 - Chris Minnes & Bojana Vasiljevic

Episode Date: October 16, 2020

Chris Minnes is the owner of Center Podium Productions and currently owns and promotes the Tahoe Show, Legion Sports Fest, NPC Mother Lode, and many other bodybuilding and fitness shows. Chris has over 20 years of promotion experience as well as an educational background in business management. Chris Minnes has also been very vocal along with communicating with governors, senators, and legislators to advocate for the continuation of bodybuilding shows during the pandemic. Bojana Vasiljevic is an IFBB Pro Bodybuilder, 4x Olympian Competitor, a Top 9 Olympian Competitor, an NPC Judge and has a degree in Sports Science. When she's not competing, she is helping Chris run NPC shows. Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Special perks for our listeners below! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: https://drinklmnt.com/powerproject Purchase 3 boxes and receive one free, plus free shipping! No code required! ➢Freeze Sleeve: https://freezesleeve.com/ Use Code "POWER25" for 25% off plus FREE Shipping on all domestic orders! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

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or more, you get free two-day shipping. Mark, this is a dope setup. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for coming by today. It's been a while. I think last time you were at st was like 2008 or 9 or something maybe right my last powerlifting meet ever oh wow yeah and then i did my first bodybuilding show like nine weeks later decided you were tired of being fat yeah i needed i needed a girlfriend girls like abs Yeah. It used to be real lonely in powerlifting.

I've talked to it. It's so ronery. It used to be really lonely. And then all of a sudden, now every fat powerlifter has a girl with them, too, though. All right. Yeah. I think the girls got into the squat and deadlifting bench, maybe. I don't know.

They're trying to build that booty. All right. We're good to go now. Sorry about that. We're good now? We're good. We're great. All right, we're good to go now. Sorry about that. We're good now? We're good. We're great. All right, well, we're here today with my buddy Chris, and Chris has been in powerlifting,

bodybuilding, and recently I went to the show that you had up in Tahoe, and you were hosting the show. I'm sorry, what's your name again? Boyana. Say it again? Boyana. Boyana. Did I get it right?

Yes. You did. All right, good. Whew. Boyana. How about the last name though? Uh oh Vasilevich Vasilevich?

Oh yeah Vasilevich He can pronounce anything Well because he has people Mess up his name all day long And he's tired of it So he's working on it Yep

But it was great Seeing you guys up at that show And then when we were Watching the show We were like Who's the host of the show? I see so much more Jack than everybody else on the stage. And it was you.

Really cool to see you guys putting on a show, especially in these times where a lot of gyms are shut down. A lot of things are just stifled. It's messing with people from a mental perspective and so it's great to see people pushing forward pushing the envelope how hard was it to get that show how hard was it to run that show it seemed like it was difficult outside it's in tahoe yeah uh unbelievably hard of course that show is normally at the mont blue showroom uh the mont blue casino and that's a great showroom. Everything's built in. And here we had to build everything, including the roof. On the Thursday prior to the show,

we got an email from the county that said the show couldn't happen. And our tent was almost completed at that time. And I went out to the tent crew and said, pack it up. This ain't happening. And we were trying to find other locations and try to figure out how we were going to do it. At the same time, hammer the county. Like, come on.

We've got hundreds of people coming in. They're counting on us. And it seemed to be the crew at the Resort at Squaw Creek got to somebody. And we were able to resubmit the permit and got to have the show. But now at that point, we're behind 24 hours. So 50% of our setup time is gone now so we have to do it all and you know we're building a roof and we're building walls and we're bringing the lights and the sound and we're out there probably till one in the morning

before the show and you know tahoe one in the morning it's about 36 degrees so you know i'm out there pounding stakes and you do what you got to do the wind's blowing at 30 miles an hour but it it was probably one of the most unique looking shows um i know the competitors love the destination you're there you walk in you're like holy crap like this is this an amazing valley the sense of rivals is really cool and just the fact that we're there for them and that's at the end of the day that's why i'm willing to do this believe me i'm not making any money at this point. It's just being there, being present. And I know 175 people competed that show.

And if I'm to tell them and we're going to cancel, I feel that pain 175 times. Each person has their own reason for being there. And sometimes it's for Instagram. But others say, hey, I'm doing this for my father who died last year. Or I'm doing this to stay sober. And when they hear the show is canceled, what is going to be their next step? So I have to make sure I do everything in my power to make sure that's going to happen. They're like, oh, thanks, Chris.

And they just start pounding. Eating some cheesecake. I see this IG story of myself tagged in with this drunk guy. I'm off the wagon. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for nothing.

How did you guys meet up? How did this happen? At Gold Gym Venice. Where everything happens. Exactly. Okay, you're in the posing room. All right, I'm following along. No, no, no.

Nice glutes. Okay, I've heard the story before. I was actually close to the posing room, but not in the posing room. I was in cardio back in the third room at the Gold Gym Venice, and I was with my coach, and he asked me, hey, do you know who is that guy there who just entered the room?

I have no idea. He said, like, well, that guy promotes taco show, and you competed last year there. And yeah, I did compete at the taco show, but I never met him. And then my coach asked me, like me like well you're planning to do this year again taco show let's go and say hi I know Chris I'm gonna just say hi and introduce you and I was feeling so awkward like what I'm gonna do like hi I'm gonna do your show and that's

it like I was like no I'm not gonna go there and we start kind of a little bit fighting and he just was kind of so pissed off like you're so socially awkward like you cannot just be like that but i just moved from my country my english was so bad and i just was feeling really awkward actually so he was training and just disappeared at some moment and i was thinking like oh thank god i don't have to go and say hi to some unknown guy i don't care. I even wasn't sure if I'm going to do that show again because I didn't play as good first year. I played horrible. This was my worst show that year.

And he was exiting the gym and he was there. So it was necessary just to stop and say hi. And my coach introduced me to him. We started talking and later we keep in touch on Facebook for months. And we didn't start dating like three months. Yeah, three, four months. We took a picture together

and you could see by her body language that I should slip into her DMs. It was very clear. She was all up on me. I'm finding some holes in the story already because we know that Chris doesn't like to do cardio. So, Chris, what were you doing in the cardio section? I was in the cardio room.

Cardio room. You have to walk through there to get to the posing room. That's right. That's right. You know goals. Yeah. And then I did his show again that year. And I, again, didn't play as well.

And it was interesting. I played as well as all other shows. And then I did taco. Nothing. And it was interesting. I played as well at all other shows. And then I do Tahoe, nothing. And then next year after that again, and three years in a row, I played very bad at each show. And I was coming, like, let's say that last year was, like, Chicago Pro top three and then LA Pro top four. And I'm coming to his show ready. I'm not looking any worse than previous shows. 11, 13th place or something like that.

She needed third to go to the Olympia. And I'm sorry, you don't get any favors in my show. Yeah, so I'm like, okay. After that, it wasn't actually option for me anymore to do his shows because people would think weird things. Politically, I don't like that. People are going to assume. It was actually really good that she did poorly at my show because if anybody accuses me of him like i could have sent her to the olympia i could have made her

three thousand dollars but no she stayed home for the olympia we make sure she finishes dead last i need her handed out trophies anyway do you you guys find it easier being like a fitness couple, like kind of tackling some of this stuff together? Or like maybe in previous relationships where somebody else wasn't maybe as much into fitness? Is it easier or harder? Because maybe you're together too much or maybe you're too like-minded. What do you guys think? I mean, I think it's really easy i'm not sure how we could have been uh had the success we've had if we weren't with someone who understands the industry you know when she walks in my office

and i have some lady's crotch blown up 400 because i'm photoshopping she doesn't think anything of it but if somebody didn't know and they see this on the screen they might be upset 500 she would be like hey we have to have a conversation that's the line everybody's got those bumps down there you gotta but uh yeah you know there's a lot of synergy that happens um you know i get to be in places that promoters don't usually get to be in, you know, backstage at Olympia or the Arnold and really see their experience firsthand

and no other promoters get to do that. So I can see what they're doing right but I can also see areas that they need to improve which gives me an opportunity to offer something that may be even better than some of those other shows in some respects. And as far as other, I mean, I don't prep anymore.

She does, and sometimes, you know, she does a lot of shows, so she's off prepping most of the year. But she's good at it. You know, if she was one of these new amateurs, they've done two or three shows, they were a nightmare. I mean, I hear you were a nightmare year first. Falling apart. First in a whole bodybuilding show.

That would be tough, but she's a professional yeah in terms of like right now you guys are promoting shows together you said you've only been together for three years uh six six okay okay but how did that work implementing like your business in together like how did you start learning about it did you already know about show promoting or how'd that work no i'm just learning from him and I'm just helping a little things around there because I'm mostly focused on my prep. But I'm doing everything what he needs at the show day, around the show. So it's basically at the show day I'm just responsible for trophies. I know it sounds like this is a fun job, but it's not fun at all.

And everything has to be lined up exactly and properly. Chris has you working hard over there, huh? Yes. She disappears for a few hours as she organizes these things. Yeah. She's a lot of roles throughout the event. But I'm the manager. I'm the director.

She could probably put on a show, and she may have to put on a show in Russia this year. Currently, the borders are closed for Americans to go to Russia, but she's a Serbian citizen, and it's supposed to open for Serbia on November 1st. So she may be taking that role for the first time in Russia. Might as well throw her in somewhere where nobody speaks the language. And I was actually going to ask you, Boyana, you're around it. You're working either to compete or you're working to keep these shows together. How are you not getting sick and tired of the sport entirely? No, I just feel that that's my kind of food.

I couldn't live without that. Yeah, that's great. I just figured out during all these years that this is something that keeps me moving. And when this COVID year started, I didn't like it at all. Everything stopped. Our show didn't happen. And I could be kind of like,

oh, great. I have a little bit more time to rest because I'm also competing a lot as a competitor. And this is the first year that I didn't compete from March until now. So this is not kind of many i didn't compete from march until now so this is not kind of many months but for me like i was competing literally every month and i was thinking in the beginning he's gonna be nice to rest but then after two months i was just like i cannot do this anymore i have to go back to competition you guys seeing her shoulders just popping as she's

just talking like is she getting bigger as she's just sitting here, or is it just me? Pump, yeah. What's going on? You're getting like a pump. Can you just settle down a little bit? Yeah, you know, believe it or not, my shoulders was my weakness before. What did you do for them? They look great.

I start training them three times per week. And if some people say, like, oh, overtraining, I personally don't believe in overtraining that much. And they start growing when I start pushing more. Chris, how brutally honest is she? I know sometimes, you know, someone who's Russian, someone who's foreign, a lot of times they'll just give it to you really straight. Does she just every once in a while just cut you right in half? Chop you down at the knees?

We actually are the same in that in that regard. I'm a first generation American as well. I am one. My father's Dutch. And I think there is definitely a bluntness that that that exists there. And and that's that's probably why we're together. I think I get along better with her than I have with any American I've ever dated. So it works out well for us.

What's funny is sometimes we'll be talking. I remember one day it was a Halloween party. We were super fucked up. But we were talking about empowering women or something like that. And somebody comes up, hey, is everything okay over here? Is there a problem? No, we're actually just like like debating more of the shoes and she like if you listen or talk to her grandmother it sounds like they're they're fighting and it's just yeah they're they seem

abrasive right yes exactly but uh now it works for me because i'm straight no bullshit how do you get into like show promoting because you said that you did one show right so how did that like were you promoting before or no okay um as like you competed yeah i've competed uh as a bodybuilder probably 10 times and um what it was is so i have a degree in in in business and i was actually with a concentration ski resort management and uh and i had actually been promoting concerts and stuff prior to that then i went and i became director of events at a ski resort okay every kind of event whether it was a huge mountain

bike competition or october fest or concerts whatever and uh so i had this background marketing events and then i did a couple of shows and i remember the third one in particular i won't say what it was but i was insulted by how bad the production and organization was i felt like i had worked so hard and i'd given everything i had to do my best for this show and i felt like this promoter just showed up that day hung up some banners and turned on the lights and i said you know what we can do this better and this whole industry has a huge opportunity to do this better and i know that with my background we can do this better. And I know that with my background, we can do this better. And that's when the first Tahoe show happened in 2011.

And people were, you know, the audience was excited. Those other promoters were very unhappy and did everything they could for a lot of years to stop me. That's kind of interesting because people are like, the show is so great. And you're like, I don't know, just put it on like i have people that help that care right and you weren't trying to necessarily make it great you're just trying to have a show yeah but then it turns out to be exponentially maybe better than what uh people are used to because sometimes people are used to things just not being done the way they're supposed to be done i always say if you want to be successful if you're looking for a way to be successful

find an industry where they're doing something where they're doing it really bad and then do it acceptable and if you do it well then you're going to go through the roof i mean that was kind of the richard branson concept when he did virgin airlines i mean here's an industry that sucks at their job you know pretty much across the board and then virgin came in and they were they did an awesome job um you know if you'd ever flown with them, it was a great experience. I think they're gone now. Well, yeah, they might be. Everything's kind of gone now, right? But that's one of those areas where, yeah, they found a niche.

How'd you get into lifting originally? Oh, that's a good question. It's kind of always been around me. My father was into it. We had Lou Ferrigno's book in the bathroom, and it was always kind of in the background. And then nowadays, you do stuff with Lou Ferrigno, right? Yeah, yeah. You do promotions.

We did. That was a full circle there. But in one of my business classes, they talked about the presence of a manager and how somebody who's bigger or slightly more intimidating can actually manage better because it's just their presence. And I thought, you know what? Maybe I'll put on – because i'm not an aggressive person i'm not somebody who likes to i used to not be somebody who likes to argue things like that and so it was easier just to have a presence rather than be abrasive and um and so i put on 20 pounds and it went on really quick uh i think in like a summer and i was like oh i wanted to be i remember what was my goal i want to be i think 180 and i was like, oh, I wanted to be, I remember what was my goal. I want to be, I think, 180. And I was like 168 or something like that.

180 came around real fast. And I was like, oh, I'll be 190. And then I was like, now I want to be 240. And so that's what happened. And I think it worked from a business standpoint and, of course, a bodybuilding standpoint. But I did, when I started, tell myself I will never be a meathead. I will never be that stereotypical bodybuilder. I still want to not waddle and,

and, you know, not say bro all the time and things along those lines. Oh, there's me and Lou working out. Then you got, then you got sucked in. Yep,

exactly. Yeah. That was a fun video. Boy, I was in that one too. So as far as like bodybuilding is concerned, you did a bunch of shows. You did that first Tahoe show and we were just talking before the podcast.

You promote a lot of shows now, right? Like it sounds like it's a lot. Correct. Yeah. We're going to have 10 next year. Currently one in Tahoe, two in Reno, one in Southern California, one in New Mexico, one with Dexter Jackson in in florida it's like crazy active and a lot of work and russia yeah moscow and like in terms of kind of getting

into that whole thing because you hear a lot of people they they try to start their own first show um what kind of hoops do you have to go through for the first one well it's it's i mean i hate to say it's near impossible, but it's near impossible to be a new promoter in the NPC. You can try to start a show that's not sanctioned by the NPC, but why really bother at that point? The NPC is the path to become an IFBB pro, which is the only way to go to the Mr. Olympia.

So if you're an aspiring bodybuilder, unless you've set your goals really low, I'm going to win this local show with 12 people at it, then you really want to be NPC. But every NPC promoter pretty much wants more shows. And if there's an opening, it will be a current NPC promoter who gets it. And then if there is going to be a new promoter which you know the last new promoter i heard of was austin carr when his father died he inherited the show um there's very it's almost impossible to become that and some people maybe work their way up through the ranks they may

become a chairman or you know they start by expediting and judging and they can work their way up and get a show that way um but for the most part you can't just kind of be like hey i'm going to do this and then expect to be able to get a sanction and then and then do it and and there's a good reason for that i mean yeah there is some definitely like good old boys club or or maybe maybe a better way to say it is they've kind of earned their way in um but to do a show right there's there's a lot of details that just aren't written down. There isn't a book you can pick up. You have to live it. You have to go through it. You have to understand it. I'm still learning things every year, whether it be rules or just new techniques

to just make the show better. So yeah, it's not easy to just kind of start out of the blue and put on a show. What is bodybuilding like what are the judges looking for in particular uh when it comes to seeing these competitors like what are people trying to be big or should they trying to be lean big and lean as possible what do you aesthetically what are you guys looking for i defer to boyan on that because she's actually an npc judge well every division have different rules so it depends what we are talking about. If you're talking about bodybuilding or bikini class. So, for example, in my class, it's a figure. Judges, first of all, looking for symmetry and balance between lower body and upper body, left and right side.

And then condition must be on point. And muscle size coming to the end, but it's not the least important thing. So it's a fine kind of borderline between woman physique and figure today. Before that was like a very visible, like, oh, this is figure competitor. This is woman physique. But today, muscularity just went up so much in figure division that is kind of like, you don't know, like, oh, this is figure or physique, or that person can compete in both divisions. Do they still have women's bodybuilding?

Because for a minute, I think it disappeared, right? It's coming back. Yeah, they took it out of the Olympia. It still existed. There's a group called Wings of Strength. They're also the group who just bought the Olympia. The owner, Jake Wood, loves women's bodybuildingbuilding and he was keeping it alive um probably if he hadn't kept it alive it would be completely gone by now um he offered a big cash purse he

i think it was fifty thousand dollars plus a jeep um and so he had his little mini ms olympia um and then he bought the olympia these guys get deep pockets why do you think that why do you think that happened in the first place like uh were people uh maybe thinking the women weren't looking feminine enough or just a lack of interest or both i i mean i personally think i mean sorry jake but i think women's bodybuilding isn't great for women um i think that there was a long time where women felt like if they did a curl they would all of a sudden look masculine. And fortunately, with bikini and figure, we've seen that, yeah, these girls are feeling comfortable going to the gym again. Remember the cardio queens of the 90s.

You know, they're afraid to lift and they had flat asses and nobody liked that. So, you know, once the figure girls and bikini girls started coming out, say, OK, I can lift and I won't look like a man unless I take tons of steroids. And that's really at the end of the day, what was happening was that drug abuse was getting higher and higher. And that's the only way a woman can be can look like that. And so it wasn't good for a woman's health. And it isn't good for, I think, women in general because they're afraid to do healthy things. they're afraid to do healthy things so bodybuilding for women is fine but following a prescription that a bodybuilder might utilize to gain as much muscle as possible would be the thing that would lead them to look more more masculine right like using anabolic steroids peds and so forth absolutely

and i think a lot of women get bad advice from their bodybuilder boyfriend who says take what i'm taking and that's when they they're taking androgenic steroids and they look like a little bit of this. Yeah. Go along. All there. A little deck in there. Shave.

I love this stuff, but my all my laser hair removal isn't working. But you can, you know, I'll say it like it is, man. But boy, I was number two in the world and she's a girl, you know, and it can be done. But you have to do it right. You know, don't have to take those shortcuts and you have to get the right advice. At shows. I'm curious about this because it's like when you look at the Arnold Classic, right? It seems that I don't know because it's the Arnold Classic.

He's looking more like the people that win tend to be more symmetrical. And then in other shows, it's like the same people don't necessarily win so how much input do certain promoters have on the type of person that wins categories in their shows or because they shouldn't really have input on that right we don't okay um i i would say that probably uh when the bubble gut thing came out uh that really started with arnold you know coming out there saying you guys look like coke bottles or whatever it was it was i think we we saw the change really happen after that and and i think we kind of mentally uh connect him with that aesthetic for a lot of reasons but the same judge who judges you know steve weinberger's a head judge at the arnold he's a head judge at the olympia and their entire crew is going to judge

the exact same way and tyler manning and sandy and and so on they are going to judge the same way but they will recognize a need for change in the judging standards and when arnold came in said you know we need to bring the aesthetic back i think everybody looked at each other and said yeah this is getting out of control and not good for the sport and it's not healthy. And then you started to see it shift. And I think probably after Arnold came out and said that, then you saw it to begin to change at the Olympia and then really saw a big change.

I think Cedric won that following year, if I recall. And he's got a great taper and a great physique. And I think that's where that came from but we have absolutely zero say in in the judging or or what we want to see in the show yeah in fact i would say if i was to say to a judge i want you to look for this or i want you to keep an eye on that person or that person i would probably lose all my shows yeah and with that being said like is there right now like a shift going on since you said the Olympia has been bought and women's bodybuilding is coming back. Is there a shift at all in kind of what's being looked for or is it generally just staying the same? It's a constant evolution.

And each now we've got nine divisions and each division is evolving. And when I when a new division like this year, Wellness was added. Wellness is like bikini with beer. It's like a Brazilian girl. Big, thick glutes and a big, thick quads, but kind of a more bikini-ish top. When that happened, they said they want...

Then the bikini glutes got a little bit smaller. The conditioning kind of got a little harder and figured... It's like your ass is a little too big for this. You need to and then the conditioning kind of got a little harder and figure just like your ass a little too big for this. You need to go to the next category. You actually need to go stand over there. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. And so and so it evolves. And every year we say, you know, figure keeps getting bigger and bigger and more muscular. They look close to women's physique right now. And each year they say, okay, we're going to pull it back. We're going to pull it back.

But then in practice, it's not really getting pulled back. I think bikini, I would say, for the first time, it is getting pulled back where bikini was getting harder. And the Tahoe show is a good example of that. Where Ashley Kaltwasser, who's won the Olympia three times, got second place at the Tahoe show because she was a little too hard. So we are seeing them trying to consciously correct that. And our head judge at the Tahoe show is one of the main judges for the Olympia. So he's one of the people who are setting the standard.

So they try like hell to have a standard and, and adjust as needed. It's sometimes hard when you have hundreds of shows each year and you know, you've got some judging panels who never judge anything except, you know, there are one or two shows each year. And, you know, you've got some judging panels who never judge anything except, you know, there are one or two shows each year. This is a, I find this like so fascinating because,

you know, you, you hear people say certain things and then they'll go back against what they just said previously. Like I've heard women for years say, I don't really like a guy to be too big. And then they're like, Oh my God,

look at the rock. And they freak out. And you're like, do you understand? Do you, the rock is six, five. He's like he's like 270 like and he has like hardly any body fat like do you understand how goddamn big the rock is you know they they don't know you know and i think i think a lot of times that's what's happening in these shows is that there's some people that can pull it off and they can have a ton of muscle on them and they could be shredded and they can look amazing. And in other people, maybe it's maybe it's too far away from what they were naturally

and they're starting to kind of look awkward, awkward, different. Right. And maybe it's just not as attractive. And so something throws it off and you're not sure what it is, but you know that it just doesn't look aesthetically. It's hard to say. Right. I mean, I just find it fascinating.

We can all agree on certain things look pretty good. Or we can agree, like if we saw a bunch of different models, we might gravitate towards one in particular where we're like, yeah, that one's kind of the cutest one or the nicest looking one out of those. A flower, people can agree like oh yeah that looks that flower looks the nicest right we don't know why i and so it's really a really interesting thing to examine and to look at you're almost you're you're almost there the reason you feel those is a release of serotonin right something beautiful comes up this warm red flower and you feel serotonin so 20 girls walk across the stage they'll all look exactly the same but one or two made that serotonin spike i like that one that's

going to be your maybe something from your own history or who the hell knows where it'd be a number of things you know it could be their symmetry it could be something from their past could be a color i mean tell them what could be the way they're moving like the way they're walking they could be walking with more confidence what tamara says when she is um uh doing her presentation i'm not gonna say that oh i'm so curious we have a friend she's a bikini uh pro um retired how do i say this um verbatim make the judge fuck you yeah so you go out there and and and you sell that to them and and she goes well what if it's a girl she wants it too and and there's a there's there's some truth to that you go out there and you make them attracted to you you know maybe that's the extreme end but what is it that's going to get them to spike that

serotonin especially in a division like bikini where they all look awesome end, but what is it that's going to get them to spike that serotonin, especially in a division like bikini where they all look awesome? So what is it going to do that makes you stand out? It's going to be something in that presentation, something in your eyes, something just that makes you stand out. On the other hand, we were talking about bodybuilders. Can I go back to that? On the amateur world where you and i would be competing um the thing

for people to concentrate on is really conditioning first um we all have a little bit of size get as lean as you can exactly you know always if if follow through on that damn diet yeah and if i'm out there at 215 and you're out there at 200 and you're more conditioned than me my size isn't going to help me win you won because you're more conditioned than me my size isn't going to help me win you won because you're more conditioned that's what amateurs need to remember i used to i made that mistake i'm sure you know as a body but we all want to be bigger you know that's that's your number one goal but really now you want to be leaner especially on that amateur level yeah i think a lot of people aren't going to even really notice if it's 10 15 i mean a trained eye will notice obviously but

10 15 pounds but if it's like 30 or 40 maybe you maybe you are a little bit better off being bigger but yeah i i couldn't agree more i see a lot of people making that mistake and they're worried that they're going to be small but it's like well maybe that's just where you're at for now and then maybe you need to do some work in the off season so you don't feel small next time you get on stage exactly and and the illusion that it creates when you're uh when you lean you look bigger you know she's on stage can i say it like 119 pounds but if you look at her her stage pictures she looks like she could do women's physique she looks jacked and she's probably 20 or 30 pounds lighter than most of the girls on stage it's because of her condition and because of this uh this massive

taper that she has between her lats and her midsection do you think like the because you know you guys are just talking about how women's physique and figure it's getting kind of close right now with the in the introduction of classic physique right it seems like it's like men's physique and classic physique some of the guys can go either or and actually are and are doing well in both. All of these different categories. Do you think that maybe some should just be melded together? I think those three divisions are good as different. I think the problem that's happening with men's physique is that they should have a weight cap the way classic physique has classic physique for me example if i'm under i'm between 510 and 511 i

have to weigh i think 207 but i've heard men's physique guys i go hey how come you don't do classic physique i'm too heavy like that's a problem when the men's physique guy is too heavy to do classic the whole point was you're the smaller entry level classic is is the guys i don't want to be 300 pounds but i want to be ripped in aesthetic and i want to look like arnold i want to look like like sergio um and then bodybuilders are the huge guys but when you can switch or they have switched that's a problem and i think that's when uh you know i would say to the npc and if you need to kind of look at that and i know they have in the past about looking at weight limits and and then i well you know the question is well then they'll just stop training legs you know here's a men's

physique guy he's going to stop training legs so he can put more size in the top yeah well then okay then we're going to judge caps you know yeah then you do something to make sure that that that has to be corrected and and you still keep that weight lower. Remember, men's physique and bikini were invented to be an entry level, and that's when our industry tripled in size. Our shows went from 100 to 300 because now, hey, I don't want to be 300 pounds. She doesn't want to look like a women's bodybuilder, but they still want to show off our work, and that was that opportunity. When men's physique and bikini start to get

too high level and they're no longer entry level we hurt ourselves i agree i think a lot of guys that are in the gym training some back and training some triceps and flexing in the mirror a little bit are like yeah i could i could maybe hop on one of those shows one day i could maybe get up there and i could get a little bit leaner and do it but then you see like a jay cutler or someone like that or some of these great uh olympians have passed and you're like there's just i that's not me i don't know how to i can't even figure out how to be anywhere near as much of a mutant as those guys so i think it is very inviting and we've seen the same thing in powerlifting with uh like bench only competitions know, and that happened kind of like in the mid eighties and it changed powerlifting forever. Cause he had a lot of great lifters that would

come in and say, yeah, I bench all, I bench all the time. I'll, I'll hop in on some of these. And then they end up, you know, being full meat powerlifters eventually. Cause they're like, oh yeah, I can squat and deadlift and stuff. And that's, that's where I started as a kid cause I didn't know how to squat, you know know squatting was just difficult for me and so it took me years to kind of figure that out so i kind of started in that category of having kind of an entry level type of thing set up for me yeah i think that makes it more inclusive and that helps our sport to grow and we have to remember that you know the higher level athletes oh they should be that rule and that rule and that well that kind of makes it so you're not going to have any more athletes behind you

to come into your sport. Yeah, would you guys say, like especially with the female athlete in mind, that like, I guess bodybuilding in general, is it healthy for a female? Just like maybe they're following Boyana, maybe they're following someone like Dana Lynn Bailey or even Cass Martin,

and they're like kind of striving for that, but maybe not necessarily going to hop on stage. Would you say that bodybuilding is probably one of the better options instead of like maybe CrossFit or even powerlifting? I would say probably yes. Maybe some people not going to agree with me, but I think it's kind of safer that bodybuilders train smart. So injuries are kind of like they're not happening like in powerlifting that much.

So I think it's just safer and in the long term can be a better option for somebody who don't want to compete, who just want to do that for fun and have some activity and for health. Yeah, and probably just like overall education, right? Because it just seems like nutrition is just gone over like crazy with bodybuilding. And Seema, can you point your microphone towards you? Yeah, that was killing me. Sorry.

There you go. I'm sorry. It's okay. But yeah, in my opinion, I think just the overall education with nutrition I think is like the biggest benefit when it comes to bodybuilding. I would agree.

Yeah. I think a big difference too is somebody like somebody's shifting gears and making the commitment to like actually bodybuild you know to you know you see a lot of men and women you know flexing on instagram and stuff and but there's a huge difference when you're actually really consciously trying to work on it every single day and you're working on your cardio and you're working on, you're tracking your food and you're really specifically paying attention. I think, I think specifically a lot of females could really benefit a lot from it because

I think a lot of them try to diet. A lot of them still maybe just aren't getting the nutrients that they need. It's not eating enough because they want to be smaller and not really working on trying to get more jacked or get bigger. And I like that about bodybuilding. I think that I think that part of it can be really healthy. Obviously, you can run into some pitfalls with the dieting and too much, you know, not eating enough and too much cardio, just like you could with anything else. But I think in general, I think bodybuilding is awesome. And I think you can do it forever. I think you could do it until you're 90 years old, because powerlifting, you can you could do it for a long

time. But you're if you're trying to lift heavy weight, you're going to get hurt, and you're not gonna be able to do it very well for that long, probably. And then you might run into issues of range of motion. But bodybuilding, even into issues of a range of motion but bodybuilding even if you ran into range of motion issues you could still use machines there's still a lot of other movements and exercises that you can do what do you guys think in terms of like what can someone do that's listening this right now to kind of make that change where they just start to kind of recognize that they really just need to kind of chop down their body fat in some way.

They have to kind of attack it and they have to kind of live like a more of a lifestyle to elicit the results of looking for. Because I know that people want to get in shape. They have this idea in their head, but there may be just there's a couple things off. What do you guys think might be a couple things that are like hindering people from just getting in just a little bit better shape every time bikini season comes around? Yeah, I think there's a lot of misconceptions as to what is healthy eating. And especially women are doing, men too, everybody, they're doing the wrong things.

They're saying, okay, I'm going to eat, especially as a bodybuilder, no carbs. And then, well, now you're flat and you know maybe that's not working for you i know you like to do no carbs but that's a different no no i understand i and this just goes back to what jay cutler said on the show which is uh don't be fancy just be consistent yeah and so the no carb thing or whatever it is fasting or whatever it is you're trying to do, all those things can work. Just be consistent with it and have a, you know, whatever it is you're doing, just have a plan with it. I think that that's it. And once you establish that rhythm, I mean, here I haven't competed since 2016, but, you know, I had my egg whites and oatmeal this morning just like I do every other day.

And I have two meals that you saw. I brought my six-pack bag with me. And that's, we've reprogrammed ourselves. And whether you're going to compete or not, it's healthy habits that you can keep for the rest of your life. And you stay in good shape and you look good year-round. But it's learning those really basic things. It's complex carbohydrates and lean protein. You do that every three hours.

It's that simple. If you can handle that, then you're going to be in shape eventually. And the other thing is just don't eat more than you burn yeah unless you want to gain then eat a little bit more but do it in protein and not in fat and carbs that is said like way too simply right right it all all comes out of that and do you need to be hungry do you need to be hungry to be in shape but not not uh stage ready no no i mean i mean we so that's probably a misconception a lot of people are living under in shape, but not stage ready. No. No. I mean, we... So that's probably a misconception a lot of people are living under. They probably feel they need to be fucking hungry every day, like starving.

It doesn't have to be fish and rice every meal. For example, I eat a chicken thigh and rice every meal, and that little bit of fat keeps me full, and I'm good that way. If you're going to step on stage, you would swap it out with turkey or chicken breast or something you wouldn't and i wouldn't even swap you know you wouldn't swap it 12 weeks out you would you would work into it because you do it all 12 weeks out where are you going to go at six weeks when you hit that plateau you know you gotta slowly ramp up your cardio slowly ramp down your fats you know slowly ramp down your fats, slowly ramp down your calories. But at the same time with her, I get her at four to six weeks out where she's super shredded. Then I start ramping up her protein.

So I'm increasing her calories as she gets to the show. She continues to get leaner and she puts on mass. And typically, she'll put on 10 pounds of mass in a prep. So while everybody's trying to get the fat off their ass, she's putting on 10 pounds of lean mass because of the way the diet is set up. Do you have to do cardio? Depends on the prep. Is that beginning or the end of the prep? But I generally like to do cardio.

So usually he needs to stop me at some point. Like, oh, easy. Like, you cannot do now two hours of cardio like you have to leave that for the end maybe impede muscle mass for you personally or or get does it disrupt that a little bit well it's not working at the end when we need the most it's going to stop working actually it's body's going to adapt already and we're not going to have same effects like if it just was ramping up to the show but we

as he mentioned do opposite things when a lot of people having bulking season and then gaining weight and then spreading that weight to the show we're doing opposite we're starting the prep from the I'm probably the lightest at the beginning of the prep

like for this Arnold prep, he measured my weight in January because I don't like to see my weight. I hate that because I had that problem in the past. When I see the scale go up, I think that I'm fat. And then I stop eating. So I just told him, like, you check my weight. I don't need to know the number. I don't want to know the number.

So he was looking in January. It was January 1st, right? And he said, like, oh, my God, you're like 15 pounds lighter than your stage weight. Damn. Two or three months ago. That was October, right? So from January to March 3rd, we put like 15 pounds of lean mass. I don't know how that's possible.

I even don't have explanation. I just was consistent with my food that I wasn't in my off season. I was just eating when I'm hungry and probably was in caloric deficit. So I lose all fat and some muscle as well. And then we start eating on time and putting everything on like strict schedule, training and cardio and sleep and recovery. And I was 15 pounds heavier. And from January to March, I wasn't at no one point like less lean or fat to say fat. I was just kind of leaner and leaner towards the March. So body just react.

I just figured out that my body reacts the best on this way when i start my prep lean and lighter and just growing to the show because otherwise um if i'm torturing my body to lose that fat that i gain in off season i end up tired on stage and probably look even worse than my last time or the same it wouldn't be any improvement there i think that's that satellite cell thing you know like um people get in accidents and they they like they they used to be pretty big and they atrophy but then once we start working out again that muscle like i've heard of guys i think uh there's this guy uh this cw wilson or whatever on instagram he had a client that had an accident He lost 80 pounds

And then after He was able to start training again It took him 4 months To gain 70 of those pounds back Because he had that muscle before So it just comes back It's crazy It comes back and you know how to do it

When we got started I'm sure you were the same way We were just eating as much as we could just trying to i'm on i would pour oil in my shakes you know like i got 6 000 calories today pouring oil and ice cream in your shakes with your protein powder like just doing whatever stupid thing we could do had i just eaten half as much and ate lean protein and complex carbs i would have been stronger and leaner and all those good things probably got more chicks. I want to know about this.

And I'm curious. You're a pro, right, Boyana? Yes. Okay. Now, you notice that pros compete every year. And they compete multiple times a year. And they have this short off-season. How is it that, like, when do they have time to really make progress?

Because I'm wondering, like, don't you need a longer extended offseason, some people to really be able to put on good muscle? Or can you just keep competing over and over and actually make improvement? What I did in the past, I would just keep competing and competing and making improvement. For me, that works the best. When she was putting on the most mass during her prep, that's when she would improve the most. And I would say, like, most of us, when your prep is good, that's when you're going to add the most lean mass. Now, lean mass is the key.

You know, if you're just adding weight, yeah, I put on 40 pounds in my off season. Guess what? When I dieted down, I weighed the exact same as I did when I started. So, I mean, it actually wasn't progress. And it's a misconception that a lot of us, when we're new, have need to put on mass and when we get it off there'll hopefully be some some meat left behind but really there isn't you've got to just add the lean mass so you're doing it you're you're constantly rebounding and growing and rebounding and growing and then you're off season even in three months you can you can put on i don't know you know depending on where you are

you know a decent amount of lean mass um and then i would say a lot of it is, is shaping, you know, and that's something you can always do. So, you know, say Danny Hesser, my guy, he's, he's a good friend of mine. So I know him pretty well and he's looked awesome for like the last 30 years. Um, yeah, like five under 5% body fat forever, you know, and, and what's he doing at that point? He's not trying to add more weight. He's trying to sculpt, you know, he's looking he doing at that point he's not trying to add more weight he's trying to sculpt you know he's looking i want a little more peak on this left bicep you know and so that's the improvement you can do that anytime you know you look at your legs this one's a little different than that one so i'm going to focus on one leg you know whatever's you know and

and that's going to be more the improvement once you're at that level is not adding the weight but now you're sculpting gotcha yeah and you see a weak point and maybe you try to address it as specifically as possible. Like, let's say that your legs are a weak point. Well, maybe Monday is kind of the start of your week. And so you're like, all right, every Monday is when I'm going to do legs because I'm the freshest. I usually take off on Sunday and then, you know, post-workout, I'll make sure I have maybe a little extra carbs or whatever it is that you think you need to grow. Or maybe you train legs twice that day or whatever the heck it is.

But I think there's a, what I like about bodybuilding is just the specifics of it where somebody just, they just all of a sudden, you know get they sign up for a show and you see them week by week and they just keep getting leaner and leaner and like how did they do that because when i've seen them in previous weeks they look the same every week but now they're hunting down this mission they're on a mission and i think it's really cool how you can just flip a switch like that and just be off to the races with, you know, building up your arms or building up your legs or sculpting the body the way that you want it to. Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Yeah. How about this? I'm, I'm, I'm curious about this, especially since, uh, you'll sometimes see pictures of individuals on stage and you see this sometimes in a bikini, uh, women getting implants

and men getting implants. Is that something that judges notice? Because sometimes it can't, it's not obvious. And so how, how do people look at that within the industry? Oh, you'll get marked down. Yeah. Like gluten, any implant besides your tits, basically, you need to get marked down. You can even get marked down if your tits are too big because it's throwing off your, your balance.

You know, Sandy, who is Sandy Williamson's is a head judge in the country or in the world for women. She has said time and time again, you don't need implants to win a show. I'm reading breast implants to win a show. It's not necessary at all. There's a lot of ways. You just need to create balance. Now, when it comes to, you know, know implant glued implants are the popular ones now and yeah i remember this girl she actually won the tao show one year and and she just couldn't

place it was when glued implants were like nobody had seen him before it's like a long time won't say the year i'll give away who she is but um you know and and then people started to be like wait something's not quite right here and then she never got first again and she goes well sandy just sandy doesn't hate me i'm like no you have a fake ass and they find out you can see you can tell they ask you know you can see it's fake you know and sometimes there's a scar or scar you can see or a tattoo over a scar um but you can tell when you know muscles that well i mean i i'm sure you can see like the top of her ass is too high it's too pointy you know it's not right like or her legs are sticks but her her ass is huge like you can't get a an ass that big and have little stick legs you know they're

gonna balance out at least somewhat so when they see that they get marked down i mean and i would say they'll never get first unless they're really, you know, DL implants, you know, that you can't really tell. For the most part, you'll see them, you know, push down to fifth, sixth or worse. So definitely not something you can do. If you can grow it, you should grow it, but with work, not by going to the doctor. Chris, how do you help people with their diet? I know that you were mentioning that you have some information on your website and stuff like that. But where do you start somebody from like a caloric perspective?

How do you come to these numbers? Okay. That's a good question. And I do lay out all the – I use formulas. And I am able to, using formulas, get their exact caloric requirements. So you take your BMR, or your lean body mass, multiply it by 11, and that gets your starting calories. Then you add in the calories you burn throughout your day from your daily routine if you're you know if you work at a desk it's 20 and if you if you're out there um you know delivering packages for ups it's going to be 50 60 percent of your base uh calories you know and that base metabolic rate is as you probably know is but

i'll say for the audiences it's the calories you would burn if you just lay on the couch staring at the ceiling and that's where you start and then you add in your daily activity calories and then you add in your training calories and that is the calories you need to maintain your body weight now from there then you figure out your goals if my goal is to um it's to say to uh to gain you have to remember that one pound is made up of 35,500 calories. And so I would say add 500 calories to that caloric requirement that we just figured out and 500 calories a day and eventually you get a pound a week, you know, a pound every six days. That math holds up.

And I found that doing that, it actually works perfectly. And you can do it the opposite way too. If your calories burned per day is 3,000 and you need to lose 4 pounds, that means you need to lose 4 times 3,500. That's 14,000 calories. Divide 14,000 calories by the time span you have. So if it's 10 weeks, you need to have a deficit of 1,400 calories a week, right? Follow that? And then you will end up at the end of that time period at your goal. And when you use those formulas, it's damn near perfect. It's what I've always used for her. When I used to prep people, I used it. And an interesting story, I consulted with Charles Glass,

and I said, hey, will you look at my diet? And I pulled out my laptop, and I showed him this this and he's like, will you send this to me? Yeah. And he sees how it all works. I sent it to him and I saw him a few months later. He's like, I had a girl for years. I could not get her to lose weight. I used your program and I finally got her to be where I wanted her to be. So using those formulas as your starting point is going to set you far, far ahead. And I have this all on centerpodium.com. My shameless plug, but we have a membership side that what I saw was, and you've seen it too, a lot of bad coaches. A lot of people, oh, I'm nationally qualified, so I'm your coach now.

You know, like, no, you're not really. You beat two people in a local show. Cool, you're nationally qualified, but you shouldn't be a coach and you're doing people a disservice. in a local show. Cool, you're nationally qualified, but you shouldn't be a coach and you're doing people a disservice. And so I saw that happening and I also saw people saying,

I can't compete because I can't afford a coach. So I took everything, literally her whole prep plan and I applied it for whatever your goals are and walked and put it all on my website for 10 bucks a month. So you're not paying 300 or $400 a month. That's great.

And they have everything. And all the things like i wish i knew probably the things you wish you knew when you first started competing you know like i showed up with a like a like a walmart plastic bag with my shit in it you know like bring a gym bag you know and you want to want to bring a razor because you probably miss a spot like all these little things or how do i become a pro you know what's a national qualifier what's the the difference between the NPC and the IFBB and the IFBB International and other federations? Why would I want to be in the NPC and so on? So it answers a lot of these questions that really isn't found anywhere else. And a lot of it's actually free.

If you click there, go to resources, slide down. I like what you were saying about the calories because I like that you kept saying over and over again, it's just a starting point because then it's, you might have to tweak something, right? Like, so you go back and forth with someone. Someone says, Hey, I've been doing it for two weeks. I didn't lose any weight. And then, you know, maybe they're making an error on their end or, or maybe there's just

something you're not accounting for, but then you can make an adjustment, right? Yeah. And it sucks to be working your ass off but doing the wrong thing. And I see a lot of that. People are putting out all this energy, but they have the wrong instructions. And this really gets you a solid number so you have the right instructions so you're not wasting your time. And then a lot of the stuff, you know, the contest prep guide here on my site, and a lot of it's free. Like the basic NPC info to get you started, the thing that I think every competitor needs to know, it's all on there.

And then when I get into my formulas and stuff, then you've got to pay $10. What have you found in terms of utilizing these calories versus allowing people to eat or having people eat sort of whatever they want and still fitting it into that calorie equation. Does that still work to some extent? I think it can work for bikini and on the amateur side, you know, that kind of what they call flexible dieting. The trouble with that is foods are chemicals and they do different things to your body every day with every meal. For example, cabbage and broccoli have anti-estrogen in them. And so if I put that in your diet, that means you may have some fat in your thigh that I want you to get rid of, and I'm going to get rid of it with cabbage.

And if you decided, you know, I'm going to switch that to um you know cucumbers well now i don't have those anti-estrogen that's the kind of shit i find super interesting because when i asked honey rambod a couple times i was like hey can i do he's like no and i was like hey what it's like no he's like shut the fuck up just yeah just goddamn do what i said i was like all right all right just relax you know but i was trying to ask if i could interchange i'm like i don't really like that so much he's like i don't care what you like he's like just follow the program yeah he's like okay got it i agree with him on that one yeah every food does and and the other thing is is you need to learn how your body reacts to different food there's a girl she won the tahoe show a couple years ago and she did sacramento and

she got fifth and i looked at her and i said uh you had sweet potatoes with skin on it didn't you she's like yeah she's like how could you tell i could see them they're in your stomach and she's like every food reacts differently maybe just bloated her a little bit yeah she you could tell she had a poop you know and that fiber was holding her in her lower stomach and i could see it and i know that commonly in peak week people load with with um sweet potatoes and i know the skin will do that. And so I was able to call, and I felt bad. I actually fired her coach. But, you know, these are the things. And so to know that, hey, and also, hey, sweet potatoes may work great for me,

might make you bloated, might make you retain water. So I need to know. I see your progress pictures, or Hani sees your progress pictures. Hey, maybe you look a little watery this week. That's what he did. He switched my sweet potato with a red potato he's like oh that made the biggest difference i was like yeah okay i don't know so you know flexible dining can work in the first part of a prep or can work you know amateur bikini but if you're trying to win if you're

trying to be perfect everything needs to be or if you're not competing and you just want to stay fit and healthy you throw in a pop tart here and there or some frozen yogurt it's not going to break the bank right right exactly i know we cheat a lot we cheat i mean and you should see this girl cheat she she'll get an hour getting into good stuff this is uh we kind of like the kind of rule is like if you didn't fuck up all week then you get the reward and and cheating to me is like you missed a meal, you ate a meal too late, you didn't eat the right food. So cheating isn't just eating those extra cookies, it is making sure you're on point. So you reward yourself by having a big old cheat meal.

Now this girl put away a half gallon of ice cream, a huge box of cookies, and usually a half a cake in one sitting. I don't know how... I love it. But I think it kicks up her metabolism. It keeps her metabolism. And you haven't married her yet because of... My canned answers is I already put on nine shows a year and each one has 200 brides.

Oh! What other little stuff like that do you like? The sweet potato skin thing, right? What other things like that do people just not think about? Because I never thought about the anti-estrogen effects of cabbage and broccoli yeah um let's see i kind of get go through my head a lot of it it has to do with you know food allergies and how your body's going to react um yeah and then a lot in peak week this is a good one is um is what's going to keep your body full and we learn this it works differently with other people.

A lot of people can spill over with too many carbs. You've heard that. And one of the ways to deal with that is by using more of a combination or even more fats like from avocado. I see avocado keeps people really full. And so if you're prone to spilling over that avocado will will help to keep the uh keep the keep the muscles full and we do that now in our peak week um there's a you know that's actually a good one is a a big spike of um of uh of donuts will increase your insulin and we all

know there's a lot of bodybuilders who take insulin to get bigger and so you can use food to spike your insulin um i remember one time I walked in, I looked at donuts and my body reacted. I started to sweat just looking at them. And so I knew my blood sugar was changing just from seeing them. My body was preparing. Yeah, smelling them, right?

Yeah. And I used to do that before a show. You know, most bodybuilders would, you know, many bodybuilders, high end, will take insulin before a show to be full. But, you know, you can do that with junk food. But the problem with junk food is you can also spill over. Calories.

You know, yeah, yeah, you can have too much of that. And it's not necessarily controllable. You know, we talked about our precise measurement of calories earlier. You know, I'm going to go to Dunkin' Donuts. Oh, wait, there's no Dunkin' Donuts. I'm going to go to Krispy Kreme. I don't know how many calories in that. Between a Bavarian cream and a sprinkle, you know,

like now you're not being as precise. And that's when it comes back to being more precise, but using those foods and learning what food is going to make you feel the most full. And yeah, donuts was one of those tricks. I actually did turn a few people pro having them have donuts the night before. So what's the process of like becoming a pro? Cause like, is it that, is it different for every single category i know you have to do a certain amount of shows and then you have to do

a specific qualifier i don't know um so you have a npc national qualifier and you have to place top two in a open division so not masters not novice it has to be an open division to become nationally qualified once you become nationally qualified. Once you become nationally qualified, you're now eligible to compete in a pro qualifier. A pro qualifier, and I'm going to start with the United States, and then I'll go overseas, but in the United States, pro qualifier, it varies on how many pro cards are awarded based on the size of the show.

Nationals in Miami, it's the top two will all receive their pro card. So back up, place top two in an open show. Now you're qualified to go to Nationals. Place top two, get your pro card. Overseas, we don't have things like Nationals. We have NPC Worldwide Pro Qualifiers. That's what our show in Russia is, where our overall winner will become, will earn pro status. And that's in the midst of evolution

because when the, so back up, the IFBB Pro League and NPC split from the IFBB International. They're now two different unrelated federations. So these IFBB International athletes can no longer go to the Olympia. They can no longer compete at a pro show. So our organization want to give them an opportunity. International athletes can no longer go to the Olympia. They can no longer compete at a pro show.

So our organization wanted to give them an opportunity, so we created these NPC Worldwide Pro Qualifiers, where all you have to do is win the overall. There isn't a qualification series yet, so that we could help populate the pros more worldwide. And in the future, there will be a qualification. And I think in England, in the UK, they are starting to qualify because there's enough shows now to justify it but in russia where there's only one my show is you can't have a qualification series gotcha and do pros have to like compete every few years is there like a mandatory amount of like competitions or pro needs to do every two years three years etc no i don't so. There is any requirement right now. But usually, top competitors, when they start placing top five at the Arnold and Olympia,

you're going to see them only at that shows. The competitors who are still chasing and need to qualify for the Olympia, you see them all around year-long competing. them all around year-long competing. But I think that that system that, like, if you're placing top five at the Olympia, you automatically qualify for the next year, is just not good for this sport, because you don't see those people anymore at the shows. And some people would like to come and see Jay Cutler, for example, when he used to compete, but they know he's going to be at the Olympia or Arnold, and that's it.

He's not going to other shows. And that's, I think, for fans is not kind of a good thing. And also for athletes, I feel like athletes should always be active and fighting for that spot. Like in every other sport, like if you want to requalify for the Olympics, you have to go through qualification system again and again doesn't matter if you already have a gold medal from olympic games so i think that it would be nice to change maybe slightly the rules slightly

change so we have like that requirement at least maybe a requirement how many shows we have to do per year so people can see us. And I think that keeps you improving. To help understand, to go to the Olympia, you have to either win a show or have, depending on the division, the top three most points of everybody in your division. And then if you win the Olympia, you're automatically qualified for life. Top five are automatically qualified. For life? Top five for the next year. Okay. Only the first place is qualified for life. Top five are automatically qualified. So as Boyana, top five for the next year. Okay. Only the first place is qualified for life.

So Ronnie Coleman could theoretically compete at the Olympia next year. And as Boyana said, what happens is it pulls the best athletes out of circulation. And then a good example, the Tao show, we had amateur bikini on Saturday. We had pro bikini on Sunday. Pro bikini sold eight times more tickets. I mean, amateur bikini sold eight times more tickets than pro bikini. So what happens is you don't create the following. People watch football because they want to watch their athlete.

They want to watch their team. And they play over and over and over again as they fight for the Super Bowl. In bodybuilding, we already know. He's going to win. He they fight for the Super Bowl. In bodybuilding, we already know. He's going to win. He's going to the Super Bowl. What's the excitement there? So, as Boyana said, you shouldn't get that automatic qualification, in my opinion. I'm not Jim Mannion.

I'm not going to speak for him or argue with him. But I would like to see more of the top-level pros out there. And I was impressed this year with Ashley Kallwasser, who I mentioned earlier. She won the Olympia three times. She did a ton of shows this year. And that is a smart thing for any pro to do. We know that pros don't make a lot of money. You know, the sponsorship's dried up.

And we're all our own media companies with our own Instagrams. And to keep yourself relevant, to make money, to make sponsorship, you've got to be out there competing. And even though she's qualified, she's won 22 shows, she doesn't need to do that. But she's out there keeping herself relevant. She's growing her following. She's growing her fan base. And I'd like to see every athlete do that. It's good for the sport.

It's good for the federation. And it's good for the athlete. Is that the girl who gets a lot of flack? Doesn't she get a lot of flack on social media? I don't follow a lot of this stuff that frequently, but that's just some of the stuff I was hearing. Yeah, recently there was a group of people or a team, I guess, who were saying— Like, she's taking spots away from other people. Let somebody else win, yeah.

I was like, well, they should just try to beat her. I mean, just don't let her beat you. Exactly. That's not how you should win a show is hope the best person doesn't show up that's actually the opposite of and she's actually smart because it is strategy and the more shows she wins that means less people are going to be on the olympia stage against her if i was her i'd go out and crush every freaking show i could so there's seven of us on that freaking stage instead of 30.

It's a great strategy. Am I mistaken? Did she win Olympia one? Or no? Ashley's won it three times. Damn. What was her name? Ashley Kaltwasser. I did see some stuff about it, but yeah, my thought

is just like yours. Let's say she's like, okay, I'll let you win this one. You're going at the next stage so what's the point like you again participation trophy to say you went to the olympia right like come on now and then and then now you've got another person on stage with you at the olympia you know one more competition it's good to eliminate them if you can yeah what was her name again sorry ashley kaltwasser k. K-A-L-T-W-A-S-S-E-R. You should also nickname her Dream Killer, because that's what she's doing. Yeah. Crushing.

And that's exactly what Ronnie did for eight years. You know, Ronnie Coleman. Chris Cormier is a friend of mine, and I was looking, and I'm like, man, you just had the worst timing. You know, anybody who was up against Chris Cormier, up against Ronnie Coleman, didn't have a chance. I'm just pulling random stuff on her Instagram. Oh, yeah. She's a sweetheart, too.

She's an awesome person. She's just a real, what I call it, champion mindset. There she is at the Tahoe show. Whoa. That separation. Which one? See that outdoor two pictures? This one right here?

Yeah, that's the Tahoe show. She got second at the Tahoe show. Because, as you see, she was a little too muscular, a little too hard for that judging panel. Whoever must have beat her must be on cloud nine. I think she was pretty happy. But the Tyler show, people called it a mini Olympia with the talent that was

out there. We had all the top girls. Amazing competitors there. That was nice. I keep trying to get her to do fitness, but she won't have it. Backwards worm. I was like, did she just play that backwards or is she really doing that it looked like it would hurt i think she yeah yeah but yeah that's crazy so fitness is another category correct yeah so what's the difference between like fitness and then wellness that you just mentioned

so fitness they have a routine so that's where there's, for pros, there's two portions of judging. One third of the score is the, what are they called? The physique? The physique round. And that's where they basically look like figure. And then in the evening, they do their routine,

and that's their gymnastics routine, a performance to music. And yeah, that's what separates them. And then wellness wellness as you mentioned it's more like bikini with bigger butts okay now i want to backtrack a little bit and uh because you when you were talking about the nutrition aspect of things and you're talking about tracking calories um one thing that i've noticed within a lot of that is that some some individuals still take the old school right i think mark like Mark, like, how did he probably,

how did he knew the calories he was giving you, but didn't he just tell you, this is what you should eat? Like, he just gave you a meal plan, or did he tell you the calories and the food too? Yeah, he pretty much just gave me like a, yeah, he pretty much just gave me like a meal plan. Got it.

Yeah, I mean, the calories were by default, because he gave me a meal plan. Yeah, he gave me a meal plan. I had five, six meals on it, whatever, every day. Okay. And I know that, how did he knew the calories that he was giving Mark for sure, but there are a lot of people that just say,

just literally give a template meal plan out to people on prep. How do you feel about people working with individuals in that fashion? Oh, you know, there is, the only way that works is, for one, you need to know the measurements. You can't just say, eat a steak, you know, because he's going to eat a 16-ounce steak and she's going to eat a 24-ounce steak. That's actually the reality of that. So they're kind of like, all right, let's see if this works or let's see how this works. And then they're like, all right, let's tweak this now and see what happens then.

And then let's see what happens then. And now we've just spent the last eight weeks trying to figure out if this meal plan is working for you. Yeah. When you actually know the calories on day one, it's going to start working on day one. You know, there's still going to be tweaking, but a whole lot less. Yeah. And you also want to talk to this person and get as much information from them as possible. What have you done in the past?

What are your allergies? Pay attention. Make any notes. I ate, like, back to the sweet potatoes. They made me feel bloated. Or this made me get a rash. You want to know what each food is doing, and you want that information as early as you can

and not figure it out when you're two-thirds of the way into your prep. So, yeah, I would definitely disagree with that. Here's your template. your template have at it you know let's see what happens no you want to start with some science yeah for me you know we didn't have a lot of time was one big part of it and the other thing was because i came from a background of not really eating much carbs he was like i don't know what the hell's gonna happen so my carbs were pretty moderate the whole time you know know, and as we went forward and as I got leaner, it was pretty obvious that I could handle the carbs maybe better than

he expected. So it was, uh, it was interesting cause it was like eight weeks, you know, kind of shotgun approach. He was like, you need to do a fucking ton of cardio. You're a former fat kid and we need to, we need to like figure this out and just get you as lean as we possibly can. Yeah, that's what I would have done. He understood your background with a carb.

And I'm not saying I'm nowhere close to honey, not even going to try to compare myself to that experience that he has. But I would agree with everything you've told me he's done so far. But no, I would be careful with those carbs. I would slowly work them in to see what would happen. Yeah, and he had me measure stuff. those carbs i would slowly work them in to see what would happen yeah and he had me measure stuff and uh he was basically just saying like you know go steak chicken fish just rotate them around and um egg whites and oatmeal i mean it wasn't too different than what you see just standard bodybuilding i mean what you mentioned earlier lean meats

it's pretty simple and uh complex carbohydrates i mean i think a good rule for people, I think, to follow is like if you're I don't think that I never think that carbohydrates are a problem. I think the problem sometimes can be is that carbohydrates usually accompany a lot of fat and we start mixing carbs and fat together. It just gets to be really hard to stop yourself from eating it. So carbs and fat together aren't necessarily an evil thing either. It's just that it's, you know, you take some rice and you throw some butter on it or something like that, or you take a meal and you throw some cheese on it and you add some fat to

it. It just makes it that much easier to eat. And that's where we start to run into some problems. You throw some oil on some hash browns or something like that, and they're just 10 times more delicious. Oh, yeah. And the science behind that is what happens. Your blood sugar and your insulin levels spike when you have carbohydrates. And what's your insulin do?

It delivers nutrients to the cell. So if the nutrients that are present is fat, you're literally driving fat right into the cell with those carbohydrates. Now, if you're eating lean carbs and protein, you just bring your insulin up a little bit, and you fat right into the cell with those carbohydrates now if you're eating lean carbs and protein you just bring your insulin up a little bit and you drive protein into that cell right what about um some of those like hacks and stuff as far as like net carbs and that sort of thing that's just definitely not for somebody that's actually going to step on stage no no you want to keep it simple um those things are you, some of the things you're talking about, like when you're subtracting the fiber and that kind of thing,

you just want to keep it clean. It doesn't really work. And then there are sweeteners you can use, and we like Stevia and monk fruit. Those are the ones that we lean towards, you know, less chemicals. Sugar alcohols tend to kill your stomach too you want to start to blow yeah you know have to change underwear a couple times a day that kind of thing sugar alcohols that body's confused because they're not sugar and not alcohol their body doesn't know how to process so they sit in your stomach for a long time and then fermentation is happening in a lot of

the days. Brutal. Yeah, it makes sense like when we had Chris Acido on, right? It's like, what is it? What is it? And he's like, it's never changed. It's still chicken and rice. Very simple. Voodoo is what I always say. People always try some sort of voodoo at the end and they'll

have a great prep and then, alright, I'm going to do all this insulin or I'm going to do all this wacky stuff that your body isn't used to at all and you just destroyed it i don't know how many times like i look at i saw a picture of somebody on the stage she would have turned pro and it's like i can just see like one less thing you should have done and you would have gotten your pro card you know just one little thing and it's usually some sort of panicky voodoo thing at the end that they decide to do and oftentimes a coach doesn't even know i want to mention this because every single time a body builder comes on i i want to let them know um we have this meet called piedmontese we work with them have you heard about them that's the one you tell me yeah yeah it's like the the steak it's

just the way they do the cows or whatever um or breed the cows but the steak is super lean like it's like it's what is it andrew so one like my favorite is a flat iron so it's 46 grams of protein and only like eight grams fat for the entire cut it's insane yeah it's so it's like when you look at like do i want a piece of chicken or do i want this amazingly tasting steak and when you see those macros like this is going to taste like a you know a shoe it's like no it's not the case it's super tender what do they call it again pivon teas pivon teas pivon teas yeah i feel like especially with like a way a lot of these bodybuilders prep it could be something they could fit into their prep without going off their goals it sounds like from the data you just gave me is that it's equivalent to what a chicken breast is.

Right. I think some of them are even leaner, which doesn't make any freaking sense, but it's incredible. Even their 96 for ground beef, a lot of times that kind of beef is too chewy, but even that's really good. Wow.

You guys would enjoy it. Definitely chicken breast gets old. Four times a day after months and months and to be able to substitute with something more palatable would be nice and and that sounds like the kind of thing you can actually switch you know from a training perspective uh what are some of your thoughts what are some of your principles in terms of training you guys like machines you like free weights like combination you're the pro i like combination of everything uh when i started i did a lot like free weights like combination you're the pro i like combination of everything uh when i started i did a lot of free weights and i think that's great actually when you're starting and building the base because free weights just stimulates whole body in

different level than machine because of the balance and stability but machines are also great to isolate certain parts and hit them um but i like everything with milo sharch of his theory about the training that's my theory as well so i like intensity i like giant set supersets um volume some tempo type stuff as well right yeah so that that's what i personally like and i tend to go heavier before when I was younger. And I have a better results now with this system of training. And I feel better and healthier, actually less in pain. And my muscles grow faster.

You don't need to go as heavy nowadays. And then plus probably, though, the amount of overall work you're doing is probably still quite a bit, even though the weight is less. Maybe there's more sets and more reps. Yes, absolutely. And I train longer at the gym. Some people maybe wouldn't agree with that.

They would say like, well, your session should be up to hour and a half and that's it. But sometimes my sessions are just long. How long? She'll disappear in there. I disappear sometimes maybe three hours or more. Wow.

But because it is the system of training like SuperSats and GiantSats, that requires some time. And I can go longer because I'm not going that heavy. So at the end I feel dead the next day more than I if I go heavy for example but I think that that constant stimulation and

because I stay longer at the gym I have intro workout food shakes so there's usually like a picture sitting on a leg extension, just eating a sandwich, eating a pizza. Don't know. That would be great. Yes. You know, kind of just to reflect on the weight, you know, you and I have the powerlifting background, and you always know when a powerlifter is dieted down because you can tell the muscles are flat. You know, they've spent years building a nice thick fascia to be really strong.

And I remember my first show, I'm like, I am so lean, yet I have no lines in my legs because the fascia was just so thick. And so when you start to go a little lighter and you focus more on filling the muscle, getting that muscle to be round, you're going to look better than going heavy than going heavy and you saw that i'm sure the first time you died yeah you look like a square yeah spongebob square pants why don't i look like the other guys yeah yeah what does your uh you said you have like intro workout nutrition like what what do you just take like liquid carbs or something else yes i do mix of um super biocarbs from Global Formulas. That's my sponsor. So I'm using their products for a long time and I'm super happy with their line. So super biocarbs, one scoop of that.

And I mix with a protein and BCAAs and glutamine. So everything together and just sipping during the whole entire workout. Because I think that we are in the specific state during the workout, and we should use that opportunity to just push nutrients to the muscle. I think it's way different than if you're using that shake before or after, right after. So intra-workout for me works the best. That's a very nice thing, too. Do you have anything post-workout

as well or did you just wait until you get home and eat? Yeah, I have also post-workout. I usually get home right away. So I usually have carbs, clean carbs and some easy digestible protein like egg whites usually.

That's the first meal and later I have something heavier chicken or steak you know a lot of you hear about like supplementation a lot within like bodybuilding so what supplements do you guys think that all bodybuilders should be using like you mentioned glutamine and the intra-workout carbohydrate supplement what else do you think is pretty damn useful bcaa's bcaa's for everybody you don't have to compete it's just necessary to you take care of your body and is the best fat burner are bcaa's actually really yeah and the glutamine also as well besides that

positive effects on your muscles is can reduce the bloating as well okay so that was also the big part of my diet last year to find a way how to feel less bloated after the meal because i just tend to feel kind of heavy after so i incorporate some digestive enzymes and probiotics and also i reduce all gluten for my diet i'm not gluten intolerant, but no lactose, no gluten. And I was following the lactin-free diet from one doctor. He's very famous on the internet. Everybody can just, if you type lactin-free diet, his name is going to pop. It's great.

It works amazing. And I couldn't believe, like, I'm not lactose intolerant, gluten intolerant. But when I remove all those products, my body is totally different. Stomach midsection just sucked in. Yeah. So they definitely cause some kind of inflammation, if not bigger reactions in your body. So you think, like, I'm okay. I can eat lactose and gluten.

I'm fine but no it's still those micro inflammation inside that just can improve drastically uh if you remove that from your diet was it dr gundry yes okay yeah yeah i think like beans and nuts and things like that are just yes they're not easy to digest for most people right you know certain grains and things of of that nature. They're just a little bit more rough. They might have a lot of fiber on the outside and not like they're necessarily all bad for you. They might be okay for some people, but to, you know, have less bloat or to like Stan Efferding with his vertical diet, he's got a lot of foods in there that are just easy

to digest. You know, like he, he'd rather have someone have an orange rather than an apple because the skin on the apple sometimes is a little bit rough on some people's stomachs. And just real simple stuff so that you can get from one meal to the next. In bodybuilding, that's kind of the trick is you can't miss meals. It's the other side of it, right? You can't say, oh, I'm too full from the last meal, especially when you're in a prep.

You can't miss them. This is pretty interesting. You can't say, oh, I'm too full from the last meal, especially when you're in a prep. You can't miss them. Yeah. This is pretty interesting. He has a yes and a no list on the foods that you can have and not have. There's a lot of stuff on here. I'm pretty interested in checking this out. Yeah, that's crazy. I'd say the other supplement, arginine, pretty common.

I mean, before every workout, of course, just for the pump. But she'll take it before she goes on stage to fill everything out a little bit. What are the effects of arginine? I've never taken it before. It's a vasodilator. So, yeah, it'll pump muscle and nutrients into the muscle, blood and nutrients into the muscle. So it helps deliver some of that other stuff as well. And within bodybuilding, too, I used to hear of a lot of bodybuilders just totally avoiding sodium.

Um, we're not totally avoiding it, but eating really low sodium. Is that still something that people do much of or they should not really? No. Uh, I mean, sodium, I'm kind of like digging into my, my files here cause I've been promoting more than I've been, uh, training, but, um, you you know sodium is necessary to keep uh height the muscle hydrated um and without it you're just flat so i mean i i we just don't mess with it you know just keep it at a healthy level and don't really pull any out and don't load it and that's when you get into voodoo you know that's when you see somebody looks great all of a sudden turn flat or spill over.

Just leave it alone. If you're following your plan and you get all the sodium you need, you don't really need to add anything to it. Awesome. You guys have been great. Where can people find you guys? Well, we are located in Reno right now. But if they're looking to find us online, his website is centerpodium.com. And I'm usually on Instagram with all people

who want to connect with me. I find out that it's easiest for me. I have a website but it's just not working the same as Instagram so my Instagram is boyanivbpro so that's the best way. And you'll find us at the Legion next week. Oh yeah? Yeah, we're at Legion Sports Fest

where we're powerlifting strong, armored combat, bodybuilding, some others. Armored combat? Yeah. These guys dress up like knights, and they wear armor, and they beat the crap out of each other with swords and stuff. Damn. Our last one, they start their hit, and then they just start pounding each other in the face with stuff. Damn. Our last one. Wow. They start their hit, you know, and then they just

start pounding each other in the face with a metal helmet and the metal glove. It's really awesome. And they look at you guys posing like, you guys are crazy.

It's weird. Yeah, so we're doing that at the convention center in Reno next weekend and of course, we've got a big pro bodybuilding show

and an NPC show. Sick. When's the next bodybuilding show? That is next weekend. That pro bodybuilding show and an NPC show. Sick. Yeah. When's the next bodybuilding show? That is a next weekend. Yeah. Next weekend. Yeah.

So the NPC show is that Saturday. And then we have IFBB, a huge high FBB pro masters event that Sunday. Cool. Yeah. All right. Thanks again. I really appreciate having you guys on the show today.

Andrew, want to take us on out of here, buddy? I will. Thank you everybody for checking out today's episode, especially everybody on the live stream. i'm trying to find his name but somebody said they were following you mark for the past couple years lost over 100 pounds now damn yeah just doing keto and uh you know low carb type stuff just the way you've been doing uh so shout out

to that guy i'm sorry i can't find your name on here. So hit us up later in the comments or something. Huge shout out to Piedmontese Beef. You guys heard us raving about it just now. For more information on them, check the link in the description and use promo code PowerProject for 25% off your order. And if your order is $99 more, you get free two-day shipping. Please make sure you follow the podcast at MarkBell's PowerProject on Instagram, at MBPowerProject on Twitter. My Instagram is at IamAndrewZ. And Seema, where can people find you?

I'm at SeemaYinYing on Instagram and YouTube. I'm at SeemaYinYing on Twitter. Mark? I'm going to have Chris show me some posing. Sick. Oh, yeah. Hell, yeah. I didn't bring my tights.

Oh, I always have some with me. Don't you worry. A pair of trunks. Just go natural. Go. Please don't. Just take it all off. I'm at Mark's Millie Bell. Strength. Please don't. Just take it all off. I'm at Mark Smiley Bell. Strength's never a weakness.

Weakness is never a strength. Catch you all later.