Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 504 - NFL Strength Coach Mark Uyeyama

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

Mark Uyeyama is the former Director of Competition Development for the Minnesota Vikings. Prior to this role, he was the head strength and conditioning coach for the Vikings, and previously served as the head strength and conditioning coach for the San Francisco 49ers for nine seasons. With over 13 years of experience working with professional football players, Mark has worked in every aspect of strength and conditioning coaching. He has been able to successfully go from unpaid intern, to the highest levels of athletic performance coaching in the NFL. Subscribe to the NEW Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Special perks for our listeners below! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: http://drinklmnt.com/powerproject ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

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That's P I E D M O N T E S E.com at checkout. Enter promo code power project for 25% off your order. And if your order is 99 more you get free two-day shipping doesn't matter yeah i don't need notes for this guy are we are we going we're going now oh shit we're actually starting on time if we wait any longer will there be anyone listening or will you still have nobody we can't answer that what if we do have people that are listening but they're a bunch of nobodies if nobody's listening is anybody actually paying attention i don't know if it's like that tree falls yeah that's can you afford to pay attention i don't know these food stamps don't buy diapers

i got that i got that that. That was good. And SEMA is always like about three second delay. Yeah. Usually, I'd say you see me looking up in the distance. Gotcha. All right, my man. Well, you got some more time on your hands. You've been able to be home.

What's that been like? Yeah, it's been great. You've been a strength coach for 20 some odd years, and now you're moving on to doing some other stuff? Yeah, definitely. The hustle and bustle of the season and being kind of—I can't remember the last time I've spent a Christmas at home. It's always been working. And so, yeah, a little bit different, but I'm enjoying it. There's got to be some things that are going to be—like when the season starts, there got to be some like itches going on i know you

did it for a long time and you put your time in but at the same time it must have felt really good to prep these guys for the field and then to see what they're able to do on game day and walk away at those victories and stuff how are you going to be able to deal with not maybe not having that around anymore yeah that's a good question you know um because i guess like family right i i guess we'll see we'll see you know i'm gonna enjoy my kids enjoy my family i'm gonna put my energy into other things you know that like i've i've said you know earlier you know the path has presented itself for me so i'm gonna take it and and full steam ahead how old are your kids because when you were talking about like how you had to travel right and especially being on the vikings i'm like you'd be gone for a few days and be back home

i'd imagine that there's like there's some like stress there a little bit since you can't always be there and you're not supposed to always be there but how long have you been having to fly places for work and not be home as often yeah so the last four years i was with the minnesota vikings so that was away then you know prior to that with the with the 49ers and i was there for you know 10 years so it's been the last four years okay and you know i whenever you're away like that i made it a point not to resent the fact that i was away because it wouldn't help me with where i was at and so i just it's what it was and you know when i got time to go home and be with the kids and

do those sorts of things i really took advantage of that okay you know i keep we keep hearing people say time and time again that like you know times are changing things are so different people are so different you're somebody that had to interact with people you know all like all day every day as as part of the season and as part of a team you know and you got to have a team has like a shared sense of purpose and you need to get everybody on board. What have you kind of seen like the biggest changes from when you started in the individuals that you would work with to later on in your career,

later on in your career? Was there like a big shift of any kind or, or what did you see? You know, for me personally, like even, even the situation like now with the, with the pandemic and things that have unfolded, I just, I chose to look through a different lens. And it wasn't one in which I was like, okay, this is what I can do. It's what I can do. And that's been my focus because it didn't serve me well to, you know, boohoo about the situation or what have you.

I said, what can I do now? What can I do moving forward? And just came with that type of attitude towards it. And just, you know, a lot's changed throughout the years, especially in this profession. And I just prided myself on staying on the cutting edge and working hard to think differently and do things differently and just, you know, continue to evolve and grow as a person as well.

It's got to be tough to get people to like professional athletes. They're so gifted and they're told that they're gifted. It's like a pretty girl. Like they're told time and time again. Right. And then maybe these professional athletes, maybe because of that, they don't have to learn certain things. Maybe for some of them, maybe they don't have the same, I guess,

like grind or something like that. And so when they're now put into a professional atmosphere where they have a schedule um this is where you and i uh cross paths really well i think is uh how do you get people to listen uh and to pay attention and to buy into the stuff that you're doing without it being because if we force them and say if you don't do that you're gonna get you know that's that's kind of shit this doesn't work well yeah i would say for you know an outside perspective would be that would be the case but to be honest with you it's when you're in it the best ones do exactly that they're the ones that are the hardest workers they're the ones that hone their craft there's the ones that

are learn how to be professionals and what they do otherwise they're not going to be in the career very long so i think there's a a misconception that that is hard to do. It's not that hard to do, especially for those guys, because those are the ones that really want to do things the right way and take it upon themselves to be a professional. And those are the guys that kind of move the needle for everybody else almost, right? Absolutely. You know you're in a good place when your best players are your hardest workers,

and that's usually the case. And the guys that are – you don't last in the NFL. You don't last in professional sport if you're lazy and you don't do things necessary to be the best at what you do. You just don't. Now, when working with NFL athletes, I think football is an interesting sport because not only there's a lot of explosion in terms of what these athletes do, there's kind of a level of grappling when it comes to people having to tackle each other. There's, there's all this different types of movement that like you, you know, when you look at track wrestling, a lot of different sports, there's a lot of, I guess, like, like intertwining stuff there. When you mentioned that you stay on the cutting edge of strength what are some things

that maybe some people haven't been paying attention to in the past few years that have actually i guess potentially revolutionized the way things are done if there has been anything that's revolutionized yeah you know you know how i look at it is is this way with what you just mentioned whether it's a grappling or the track or the boxing or what have you, those are all sports within themselves, and they're almost close and close enough to mess things up. Football is football. Let's not get it twisted. Those demands are far different than being on the mat and shooting double legs and single legs and doing those sorts of things.

They're not one and the same. So the demands to do each of them are very, very different. Although if you're outside looking in, it may seem like it's very similar. It's not. Punching and boxing is not equivalent to pass blocking in football, just not even close. So I think it's important to understand there's a distinction between those. In terms of revolutionary revolutionary is there anything

revolutionary right now not really okay not really not really can there be absolutely what's being done and what is doable or two different things so when you say like can there be when what's being like versus like what's being done what are the things that are being done that you don't see being applied that maybe you think should be applied well first of all i think too many people are getting away from what is actually demanded of them from a football standpoint right and and that's key right it starts with that it doesn't start with things in the gym or things you know that have nothing to do with what is going to be demanded of them yeah here's a revolutionary concept right right in order to become more formidable powerful explosive whatever in facets of the game you got to do facets of the game right and so let's not get

it twisted right all that other nonsense that's going on out there a lot of times has nothing or loosely is correlated to what it is that's going to be asked of them to do. The other part of it is just the thinking of it, right? The tactical component, the communication, the ability to make decisions, the ability to execute, having a level of fitness to repeat those things that needs to be front and center, right? So when you think about preparation, it's all about what are the tactical objectives coupled with what are you philosophically committed to, right? So as a team, if say I'm a run first team, well, guess what? I better get used to putting a hand in the dirt, creating force and being able to run block, period. If you're a run first team, if you're

an up-tempo team, well, guess what? I better get used to shortening the rest periods in between plays because that's the philosophical commitment that I have. So it starts with tactics coupled with what you're committed to philosophically. Do you think it maybe in some ways compares to like if someone was to go to like a gun range, right? They could learn how to shoot and they can learn how to aim. But it's not necessarily going to prepare you for war. Sure. Right.

It's just like it's one small aspect of you looking at a target that's not moving and you shooting at something. And there's tactics involved in that. Yeah. But if it was like pure violence, like in the street or something like that, the way that I have kind of looked at some of these things is like, you know, someone can teach you how to like throw a jab and protect yourself a little bit. But when it comes down to it,

somebody crazy comes yelling and screaming at you. I'm not so sure you're going to be able to utilize those, those tactics, unless you've been trained in the circum in something that looks a lot similar to the circumstances that you're going to face. So, so, you know, that's a great point is just like the guy that's great on the heavy bag but gets thrown in the ring and gets his face kicked in right like one of the things to consider and

think about is is scaling what it is that you're doing and have an understanding of what the variables that come into play so for example if if i'm a defender say a linebacker for that matter and i'm having to you know basically uh you know what you know uh attack uh tackle a ball carrier well there's a number of facets that come into play a number of variables how can i scale that first of all let's slow things down a little bit so there's an understanding so i have confidence in whatever it is that i'm doing uh let's get some repetitions doing that so it becomes automated and let's make sure the quality of which we're doing is is is up to par two before you just throw the guys you don't get better at boxing by just sparring all the time right so you break things down into its components you break things down into its individual

techniques and then you hone into those things and then you start integrating them and start pulling them together. So it's not just one or the other, right? It's understanding, it's almost like that part-whole approach of how can I work back from what's going to be demanded? How can I scale it from an intensity standpoint where the threshold isn't so much, right, that it doesn't help me to do do the task in which i have to do right you couple that with what what all the other things that come into play into playing football right down in distance you know uh you know where you're at on the field where you're at

in terms of the time of the game these are all different factors that come into play that you just can't you know get thrown into the fire that's not going to you know you're the high level guys they figure it out but in terms of development that's not the right way to do it you got to kind of break it down and work back from there and then gradually as you start getting better at what it is that you're doing then you start increasing some of the variables and then you start increasing the intensity it's it's funny that you were talking about all those regressions because Cause, cause we had this guy, Ben Patrick, he's sneezing.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like the, the, when we were talking about the way, you know, he regresses a lot of the stuff that he does,

like even the simplest aspects of it, it's very, very, very boring. So what I'm wondering with like a lot of the regressions you're talking about here, when you have to get a professional athlete to actually take something seriously,

how do you have them buy into that? Because a lot of athletes, when they look at something that may be a walk in the park for them, you're saying, do that over and over again. Yeah. How do you get them to buy into doing something like that? You'd be surprised because I think what happens is when you always work back from what they actually do, what they actually do and there's relevance, then they're going to put more and there's more interest in it. Right. You start doing all this nonsense that has nothing to do with what it is that

they have to do. Then it's like, what am I doing this for? Right. But when you work back from what they have to do and you almost kind of reverse engineer that, then there's this more, more of an effort and more,

more, you know, more of a willingness to do that. You'd be surprised because that's what they do. Yeah. They do that really, really well. There, there, there's a reason why they're at where they're at. It's because they do that really well.

Okay. Well, let's take parts of that and improve it even more. That's kind of the concept. Did that confuse you at times? Like when you first got to the NFL level or started, started working with higher level athletes, were you kind of confused at like, why can't this guy do like a box jump? Or why is this guy having such a hard time balancing doing lunges? You know what?

I'll say this initially, yes. But the more in tune I got to what it actually took to prepare to do that, they needed to do that. The box jump had nothing to do with nothing. I could care less if they box jump. Can he put his hand in the dirt and can he get off the ball? And can he drive that three technique, right? Can the receiver get off the line of scrimmage?

Can he come in and out of his break fluidly, catch the ball and get upfield, right? Can he do that? I wasn't worried about any of the thing that had nothing to do with what he needed to do. So if the box jump doesn't work, how do we make the guy more explosive? Because I think a lot of coaches would think, well, let's have him jump or let's have him do this or that. How do we get him?

What you have to understand is look at the end game, right? And then have an understanding of what are the physical traits that have to manifest to do the end game. It could be a box jump. It could be just a jump. It could be isolating

just that part of the route, the top of the route. It could be isolating the initial stem of the route, the top of the route. It could be isolating the initial stem of the route, which is the initial start. So it's working from there and working back. And then they're understanding, okay, what are the muscles involved, right? What are the types of contractions? Then you can get into something like a box jump or a jump or what have you. But understanding what is the task first and foremost. Let's do that really, really well because you can do that explosively.

Right? Now, what underpins, what are the physical traits that have to manifest to do that? And then you start peeling it back. And you can get to a box jump. You can get to any type of jump. But you start with the task at hand. And the guys could look identical, right? I mean, one guy could have two defensive tackles and they could be the same exact body weight but one guy is responding to something completely different than the other

guy and that's where it must be hard to train everyone as a team it can be i'd imagine it could be difficult at times yeah that's where you know you don't really you train them as the individual because some some guys respond better to certain things some guys are more reactive in nature right and you want them to be some guys are more stable and you want them to be right. So it all depends upon, you know, positional demands. And really I've always thought this, like they're there for a reason. What is that reason? And let's amplify that. Let's make that the icing on the cake, right? And then all those other things that kind of come together, I'm going to continue to work on, but they're there for a reason. What is the reason? And let's make it more of a reason, right? What are their strengths and let's build upon it.

Earlier, you were mentioning when I asked about like, what have, what are there any like revolutionary things within strength training? You mentioned that like sometimes there people aren't doing the things that actually work. Okay. So maybe looking at too many shiny things and trying to do too many things that aren't relevant. Right. So I would imagine to become an NFL strength coach, there have to be some prerequisites in terms of your understanding. So maybe there aren't many bad NFL strength coaches, even though you could probably have a few on the top of your mind that you probably won't say. But with that being said, what are some things that you see strength coaches within football,

whether it be college, whether it be nfl what are some things that you see being applied that you're just like that generally needs to stop or that generally we don't need to be doing this you know i i think the you know and this is a no secret put on a youtube or watch a game and just the the the charades and kind of the towel waving jumping around stuff that has nothing to do with nothing just honestly yeah wait what do you mean by that uh just the whole you know you're the hype man and you're the back coach and really just the stuff that has nothing to do with nothing yeah yeah okay that's not helpful doesn't do anything yeah doesn't do anything what about what about helping players players maybe manage their body weight?

I would imagine that that would help maybe with some explosiveness for some of the guys. A guy comes into camp and he's 20 pounds over what he should be. How have you guys helped? How have you managed some of that? Many roads lead to Rome. So what happens is everybody's an individual in terms of how they respond. And extra body weight is good for guys it all depends on kind of the end result and you know you got to know if it's it's if it's a limitation then then we need to address it and you know just kind of like in concept of you know your 10 minute walk type type uh you know methods

i would do that with guys that had to drop weight is just kind of intermittently dose them throughout the day to keep the engine burning and just little belts like that versus, you know, Hey, turn it into some punishment deal where the guys are, you know, you're running them into the ground. So I would do things like that, but there is an

optimal weight for guys. And, and like I said, sometimes your, your, your best guys aren't the most fit guys they can just play football you know so there's always that when i went to the playoff game it was the 49ers and vikings and uh you were previously with the 49ers and then you were with the vikings and then you were going again the other strength coach that was there was your uh protege i guess you'd say right something like that he was he was under you previously right yeah so yeah not not under me directly but he's somebody that i've

i've i'm friends with a health mentor yeah for sure for sure great guy and somebody that i still continue to have a relationship with on both teams i from what i remember i'm like thinking there's no more fat guys in the nfl like where the fuck did all the fat guys go how come guys aren't like i mean i'm sure you had some fat guys on your team but like they're not really around as much anymore like the real big yeah you think about the game itself too right everything is very explosive in nature it's an alactic sport well think about that when it's explosive in nature you're getting those contractions right and there's a reason why you know a gymnast is is is lean and and put together

it's not because they lift weights it's because whatever it is they're doing is very explosive in nature and so the muscles get contracted and you get a lot of leaner guys and this day and age you know it's it's not like it used to be you better come ready to go in the nfo you better come ready to play you gotta be fast right speed kills Yeah. Those guys are very athletic, very explosive. Your biggest guys are some of the best athletes. You know, there's 300 plus pounds that are just, can do things that you, you know, that skill position players do. Yeah, it's pretty, some freaks out there. Do you have any advice for individuals that are coaches, whether it be, again, college, whether it be NFL?

Because we had Phil DeRue here. He's the strength coach that works with a lot of UFC athletes. He was talking about how like an athlete will have a strength coach. They'll have a nutrition coach. They'll have a boxing coach, a grappling coach. All these different individuals now have to come together and try to build this athlete. But then they all have, they all believe that what they're doing is the most important thing. Yeah, it's a problem. It's a problem, right? But obviously as a, as a, you know, as a strength coach, you do have to work with a few other coaches to try to get these players to perform at their highest level. What is, what are some strategies you'd believe to be able to navigate those waters, to be able

to get these players where they want to be, but also dealing with all these other potential egos in the way? Yeah, that's, that's a, you know, really a siloed approach. So you got to be careful. Just like I gave the analogy to Mark earlier today, it's that cup analogy, right? If you're pouring in the cup, nutrition, performance, rehab, training, you know, if you're not careful that you're, you're going to have a mess on your hands. So it's important to understand what proportion of what is getting put in the cup. It's also important to, um, at, at that stage, understand, you know, why it is you're doing

what it is you're doing. The ego must, must be left at the door. Yeah. Because if you really think it's about you, you're mistaken, right? Unless it's a one-to-one correlation of you coaching yourself in the a hundred meter final and you win a gold medal, is it because of you? It-one correlation of you coaching yourself in the hundred meter final and you win a gold medal. Is it because of you? It's not because of you,

right? You can actually, you know, a lot of it is in spite of versus because of, so you just got to make sure, um, there's, there's,

there's clean lines of communication and, and ego has to be put aside. It has to be, if you want what's best for the athlete. Yeah. I know that you and, uh and James Smith are close friends. And James has said to me, and this has been very puzzling for me over the years. I don't always know why the hell he says the thing he does.

But James was a former strength coach as well. And he was trying to figure out a way to eliminate the position. Sure. What are your thoughts on that? And like, can you make sense of that for us? Yeah, I can make sense of it.

You know, obviously James uses, you know, I don't want to speak for him, but he is a very close friend of mine and, and you know, he's been, you know,

very helpful for me in my career. His point being is coaches should have that understanding, right? You don't got to be an expert in everything, but you should have a common understanding of all the facets of preparation and it shouldn't be siloed. It shouldn't be, okay, you're dealing with the strength, you're dealing with nutrition, you're dealing with the tactics. There needs to be a unification and a synchronization

of all the modes of preparation. And he thinks there should be a coach. and a synchronization of all the modes of preparation and he thinks there should be a coach a coach should have that understanding and one of the best examples that's what it would mean to be a coach is that you are well balanced and understanding and maybe you still have a little help from some other people right sure there's always going to be experts at different levels but you do have an understanding he gives an example of the chef de brigade which is how to become a head chef in france and what happens is at the very bottom is the chef de commis who deals with, you know, say, preparing the proteins. Above that is the chef du parti who takes a part of the cooking, whether it's a soup, sauces, what have you.

Above that is a sous chef. Making me hungry. Yeah. You all know what that is, right? And then you have the head chef. But if you go up and down that hierarchy, there's a common audience. They all know how to cook, right? They all know how to cook right they all know how to cook they all know how to peel a vegetable and so it's that understanding of having a almost like an executive

chef mentality of you know whatever you want whether it's on the menu or not i can cook it right i know how to prepare it i know what course goes with what and so it's having that understanding and i'm not saying you know not everybody's going to have that i mean it's a tall order and a big task but you should have some common knowledge in those facets it's just like me in my position i should have common knowledge behind the tactics that are called why because that's the end result i should have common knowledge of the specific techniques for those tactics why because those are the positions that they're going to have to be in to do the tactics and then the physical traits that's what i do that's that's easy stuff that makes a ton of sense so if the head coach switched

to some sort of offense where uh they open the field up a lot and they're in the shotgun position all the time and people are going to be running a lot more so as a strength coach it'd be helpful that you're like oh okay they're doing the run and shoot or they're gonna have less breaks in between plays yep yep that makes a lot of sense then the training really is is really is what emerges is that just that right whether it's work to rest ratios whether it's what exactly it is you're doing so it's very targeted right and i think it's it it means that much more right because you're actually it means it means it means there's relevance to everything you do. So I guess this is like a chicken or the egg question then.

Which one would a coach focus on first, becoming like really skilled in one area or kind of being more all around? That is a good question. And I'll answer that with it all starts with tactics. As it relates to football, right? it all starts with tactics. As it relates to football, right? It all starts with tactics. Why? Because there's 60 to 80 times a game, there's tactical intervention. There's communication, there's decision, there's execution, and there's fitness.

Think about it. Every 30 seconds, there's a new tactic. You're hearing a new play. You have to understand, what does that play mean to me? What do I remember? What does it mean? And now I got to process that information that happens all the time. You can't just have these physically gifted guys and then get out on the field and they don't know what they're doing. Those guys look slow and look like they can't move. Why? Because they're thinking too much.

You have to lead with the tactics. Then what underpins tactics are the specific techniques then what underpins the techniques are the physical traits so it's a top-down model versus i start in the weight room we get big and strong booga booga and you can't play you know what i mean right so that's that's what that is i love that that's a good translation yeah that's that's our field. Let me ask you. So when did the, cause you mentioned that top down approach from tactics multiple times now,

um, was there a certain point in your career where you maybe you changed? Cause I can imagine that there are some strength coaches listening that maybe they don't think in that certain way right now. Maybe they're younger and it's maybe this is what has them switch their approach to the way they think about it. So did you think about this from the start? Did you just, no, no, no, absolutely. So, so I was telling Mark, you know, when I, first of all, as an athlete myself, I was always doing this training that they said was the right training, but I could never do it. Like I was doing these like long distance runs and my back was blown out.

And I was just like, what is this? Like, I just couldn't do it. But then I get in the game and I'd be like, good. And it just made me question, like, why am I doing that? This is what I need to finish and do. Why am I doing all this stuff? And so I was questioning things and I was very critical of it. And then it wasn't until, you know, when I initially got into the i got into arizona state and i started doing all these different sports i did

track and field i was working with volleyball i was working with wrestling i was working with tennis and football for snc for snc whoa okay okay i had like so many sports i was working with i started looking at the physical traits just just the physical traits, knowing what I know now. I mean, I've needed to look a lot more, but at that time, that's where my mind was. I have a background in martial arts. I always knew like repetition and quality and technique and that how important that was. Then I'd look at all these sports and say, look, if I can get the capacity and the resilience of a wrestler, the explosiveness and power of a track and field athlete, the power and the body awareness of a volleyball player,

if I take all those traits and combine them together, I'd have one badass football player. That was my mindset. Because I always knew I wanted to be in the NFL. And that's basically what I did. And then it wasn't until that where there was this evolution of me questioning and asking, well, why? And, okay, what's most important? And why is this guy?

He's so physically gifted, but the dude can't do it on the field. Then I started peeling it back to understanding, okay, well, your psychological state plays a huge role in that. And does that mean you're off in some room talking about flow state and being in the zone? No. How is that integrated into what it is you're doing? Then I started thinking, okay, we're on to something here. So then I started piecing it all together. But then it transitioned right into looking at the game.

Just watch the game. It tells you what you need to do. You mentioned being at the Super Bowl, and you told me a little bit about that experience. It sounds really, really amazing. With your training now, I'm sure you maybe would have interpreted it quite differently, but can you share with us that experience of getting on the field on the Super Bowl Sunday? Yeah, it's really one of those things, and people that have been, whether win, lose, or draw, have been, you really have an appreciation of what it takes to actually get there

because it's a lot of hard work, and it's a culmination of just the right type of people. You get a little luck on your side at times, right? You're fighting and clawing,, you know, things happen. And it's such a team sport. And to be at the pinnacle there and be on that stage was a pretty special time, especially when you just, you know, you're basically doing a roll call of what it took for you to get there. And it's a pretty special deal.

And then to do it, right, was even more so. And just more so sharing with the family and people that helped you along the way. You didn't have a lot of family that went to it. All the, all the tickets went to family and friends. Yeah, for sure. And so it's a time, you know, it wasn't about me at that, at that stage, it was about those people and them helping you along the way from, you know, what you've done and where you've been. And so that,

that was a very special time. And, you know, when you look back on it now, you know, there's no redos, right? It is what it is. But you definitely do have some things to pull and learn from. I didn't understand the enormity or what I perceived as the enormity. Looking back on it, like, granted, it's a game, but is it really just a game? I mean, it's pretty powerful.

And, you know, I didn't interpret it how I needed to, nor did the guys that were playing there because, you know, we, we fell behind early and then managed to battle back once everything kind of settled down. But, you know, a great learning experience from that standpoint that, that helped me, you know, because it's like kids, right? You know, you don't know until you know, it's like, you know, I can't tell you how to be a dad until you actually, you know, walk in those shoes at times. Right. And so that was the same type of situation having gone through that and knowing what it took to get there and how hard that was, you know, it makes you appreciate that whole process. different people in the crowd and how that even kind of got, you know, hits you pretty hard, which is interesting to hear from you because you're around a lot of high level people. Like, you know, I think, you know, more people than, than anybody else I know.

You're like, Oh yeah, I know that guy. You're like, I know that guy. I know that guy. So for you to be starstruck is, is a, is a pretty big deal. But now with some of the training that you have with you, the consulting that you and James are doing together a little bit, what would it mean to you to see Beyonce there? Would it be irrelevant?

Well, let me say this. I'm a student of James as it relates to that. I'm definitely not taking the lead there. I'm a student, and he's been very instrumental in my learning. I'm far from, but I, but I practice what I, what, what he preaches and I practice it. And yeah, I'd look at it clearly different.

Even then I wasn't like super, I wasn't starstruck at all by any means, but I saw how other people responded where there's grown men crying and it's just like, Oh geez, like, Whoa, this is hitting dudes.

Like some of the guys are crying because it's a lifelong dream. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, and there's just a different energy, you know, geez, like, whoa, this is hitting dudes. Some of the guys are crying because it's a lifelong dream of theirs. Absolutely. And there's just a different energy. You know, Mark, you were at the playoff game when we were there with the Vikings, and just there's an energy that kind of comes with it. No, it's wild. Even just being your friend, like, I was so charged up during the game, and I'm like, why am I so fired up?

Like, you know, I feel like running out in the field and fucking everything up for everybody and injuring myself you know well that's just it and so so to see that and just you know i'm very observant all the time right i'm always watching dudes and seeing how people respond and react and i kind of i took a step back and was like whoa this is hitting some dudes now like and guys what what i saw as the result of that was guys were not, you know, when your best players are not playing how they need to play, there's something there. And it was, you know, impacted them in a way that they weren't able to demonstrate, you know, how good they are. Yeah, the crying may have been something to play in your favor, but in that situation, it didn't. No, totally not.

Maybe it was like, this is really cool that I'm here. I'm going to make the most of it. Whereas some of them, it might have been an end game for them just to get to the Super Bowl, and maybe they lost concentration of what they were supposed to do. Absolutely, it did guarantee it did do some things with guys in terms of them. We did our first 15 plays that we basically...

It's tough to have it not affect you, though. The whole week, you're there like 10, 14 days or something. Here's here's my thing. And you're right. But but it's it's all interpretation. And what needed to happen was that needed to be front and center, not just glossed over like, hey, don't worry about it. Like, hey, just another game. You know, it needed to be talked about.

Right. hey just another game you know it needed to be talked about right and i think leading into that game you know prior to us getting on the bus it was like a um we had like a 15 minute montage of the season and i was like whoa like holy jeez you know we did some things here and then to get on the bus and and literally walk down the flight of stairs and see crowds of people but you see crowds of people but you know your parents are like glowing you can see them you can pick them out right your family that was you know that was pretty special and but but just knowing and having an understanding so you can be aware and and that doesn't mean you discount how you feel. Okay. You don't got to be robots, but you you're aware of it, right? You're aware of how you feel. And then you're aware of how to interpret that to best serve you and be most helpful. Right. So what are

the, like, I guess when athletes listen to that, they're probably wondering, okay, how can I then apply that to whatever it is, my competition day, my power lifting day, my bodybuilding day or whatever. What like, cause what you're talking about, I heard recently, not even recently, but I heard that the NFL started adopting stoicism as like something that athletes read a lot about. Right. And that's exactly kind of what you're talking about there. But what are some practices for athletes to do like psychologically to help them be stronger and more concentrated on game day?

Well, first of all, don't deny it. Right. Second of all, be aware that's even happening. Right. And so you're not like a bad person if you feel a certain way or you get amped up or, you know, you're you're a little bit nervous or have whatever. Right. You're not a bad person. But if it does happen, how do I reset?

How do I get back to baseline? How do I best perform and be able to, you know, one, acknowledge that, but two, be able to reset to where it's most helpful. I basically have access to all my ability. Because if you don't, if you're upregulated, you can't pull from working memory, you can't think. And it affects how you move and perform. It's a fact. That's what happens. And so how do you best reset? And sometimes it's very quick.

But what you'll find is when you get into that mode of like learning and you get in the mode of being aware of these things, then every single day these things emerge. And you're like, okay, i know how to respond to that right i'm not going to do the other that's not helpful okay every day this happens right and so that's the powerful tool it's like a superpower we talk about of your interpretation of anything in any situation that happens you get a choice how to interpret that it doesn't have to be a bad thing it doesn't have to be a good thing it's doesn't have to be a good thing. It's just what it is. And so you remain objective with that. But the key is, is it be having awareness of things that happen and understanding you get to choose how to interpret that every time. course of a football game, you may learn that the other team has a really good running game. You know, and so going into the game, you're like, well, this guy is not going to run all over us.

So as a defensive back, you're watching the backfield and you're like, the second the guy kind of pops through the hole, you're going to get ready to hit him. But you're supposed to cover a certain aspect of the field if you're in like a zone defense. And you would think that you would protect that zone that area but because you're a lot of your mind and a lot of your decision making skills may be compromised because you had anxiety over this guy running all over your whole team's face the entire game then you get sucked in by like a play action pass and somebody just ran behind you and to to your point the wide receiver that's running down the field isn't running down the field for no reason on a run play like uh you

know without without anybody you know guarding him he's running down the field because he knows that they're going to throw the ball over your head because you're dumb enough to fall for the play action pass so it it's interesting how these things, they play into every aspect of the tactics that you're talking about. Yeah, definitely, and plays into every decision. And a lot of times, too, in that type of situation, Mark, they will send a guy down the field. I mean, just as a decoy to get you out there, right? So there's a lot of cat and mouse there as it relates to that. It's a chess match.

But again, if you want to make the right decisions at the right time and be able to pull from your working memory and think most freely it has to be in a state of of equity media and imbalance right you can't be if you get up regulated trust me that that you'll have conflicting thoughts right and you won't be able to react and process like you need to other than athletic ability or crazy athletic ability that you've been able to see from a lot of these top level players, what amount, because I imagine that there's probably going to be quite a few football players listening, what amount of studying do you see some of these players do when it comes to plays, when it comes to playbooks, et cetera?

When you think about the really, really good ones, are there guys who are just naturally, they just have great awareness, but here's, I would say there are, but these guys do a tremendous amount of, of studying self study. What does that look like in terms of like time commitment, et cetera?

I mean, I mean, these guys live on their iPads. I mean, it's all day. It's at night. It's in, in the,

you know, while they're in the cold plunge, it's, it's nonstop, you know, and the better they get at that, the better it'll be, you know, in terms of their own self-reflection, right? Can you be your worst critic, right? With yourself, right? Can you, can you, can you self-evaluate yourself? Can you self-observe yourself? And the better you get at that, the better you're going to be, you know, just honest with yourself, right? So you're fooling yourself if you don't think you can improve.

You know what I mean? So the best ones are able to do that and have a plan with how to improve that. I think it's been said about Charles Haley that his intelligence on the field was crazy and that he knew the routes of the receivers on his team and he knew all the plays. And, you know, he's one of the receivers on his team and he knew all the plays. He's one of the most decorated football players of all time. I think he won five or six championships or something like that between the Cowboys and the 49ers. I even have heard some stories, I don't know how true they are,

of certain teams trying to run plays and him looking to the sidelines after he just tackled somebody being like, you've got to do better than that. You guys ran, you guys ran that same play. And he like, he recited like the date that they ran that same play and against what team. And the coach was like,

uh, I'll tell you what, that, that is, that is a great example. And you know, Mark, you know,

I can attest to this personally is your, your level of knowledge and your level of learning is predicated upon your level of interest, right? There's is predicated upon your level of interest. Right? There's a reason. These guys are interested in it. Right? You know, whether a guy was good in school or not good in school,

it's all based upon your interest level. If you're interested in it, you're going to put more into it. It's going to mean something to you. Trust me. These guys love football. They're interested. Your level of interest will is determines your your ability to know what it is that you need to know and you see ray lewis you

know when he was playing he's just like simultaneously like running towards the ball and you're like how does he know but it's from the study right it's a huge i mean obviously he's an insanely gifted athlete as well you know know, it's always problem solution, right? It's understanding distance. It's understanding play clock. It's understanding down and distance. It's understanding the front.

It's understanding where they're at in the field. It's, you know, them becoming more knowledgeable and being able to piece this all together. Right. They're able to do that. Right. And why?

Because they're interested, right? That, that determines everything it's a difference between like destroying somebody on the field and getting destroyed because like if you don't know where a block is coming from or something i mean you're going to get lit up you know you're you're hoping you're hoping what you do in training is is giving you enough exposure to those types of you know situations, situations. However, what you find in the NFL is they literally will flip a whole script

and run like, you know, these teams that will run just different things every week and then come at it from a different formation and run the same thing and just kind of like it's cat and mouse, right? But as long as you stick to the fundamentals of what it is that you do, you know, there's not many things that these guys haven't seen, right? So that's kind of what it is that you do you know there's not many things that these guys haven't seen right so that's kind of how it works i believe you were with the team when this happened um what was it like being at ground zero of uh i think it was colin kaepernick uh kneeling during the uh national anthem type thing like what did that feel like a distraction to the team like

did it did it pull the team apart? Did it pull the team together? What are some of your, I know it's like a hot, you know, it's not an easy thing to talk about, but what are some of your thoughts on that? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it, it is easy for me to be one, you know, just cause I can just speak on how, how that impacted, you know, myself and what that situation was like for myself is, you know, first of all, Colin Kaepernick worked his butt off. Okay. He was literally first guy in the

building, you know, came, came with it every day, you know, very appreciative of that. I had him since a rookie, right. I had him since a rookie and, uh, had a great relationship with him. He worked his tail off. And, um, so anything that, that he's done or has done is, you know, it's always been good in my, in my view. And, you know, in terms of the whole kneeling deal, it was almost like, um, it didn't really phase me as much, right. It's cause, uh, you know, I just, I, I, I saw him for who he was and what he does. And that was that it wasn't too big of a thing for me. I've always helped him, uh, you know, even outside of, um, outside of, uh, you know, with his training and, and helping them get lined up with certain things that were down

the, um, you know, during the off season and whatnot, help them with places to train. And so, you know, I had a, I had a great relationship with him there. I had him as a rookie, you know. So those times, we had good times, man. We had a really good team. And he was a big part of that. Yeah, he helped take you guys to the Super Bowl. Yeah, he was a big part of that.

We had a lot of good guys on that team. And then more recently, I think it was before maybe this season, I'm having a hard time remembering what time. But I remember the Minnesota Vikings, they kind of held almost like a players press conference. And I believe they were talking about the situation that happened with George Floyd, and now that whole thing is pending in court and everything like that.

When you saw the players come together and speak openly about their thoughts on that, what were your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, just in support of the players come together and speak openly about their thoughts on that, what were your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, just in support of the players, always, right? And that's kind of, you know, we were right in the thick of things there. And, you know, it's like anything, because we were smack dab in the middle of it. I just think it's cool, like, for the, you know, for the organization to back it as well. You know what I mean?

I mean, come on. You know, that, you know, again, and we, you know, I wasn't myself. A lot of the other teams didn't do that. Yeah. But more started to do that. Right. But you know, I was in full support of those guys and I'm in support of what they were, you know, allow them to have that voice and have that opportunity and have that stage and, and be supportive in that role. Right.

That's just, this gets me curious about something that I've heard about. And I've heard about it vaguely, but it's something that, I don't know, it's just a very odd thing. You know how a majority of NFL coaches, like head coaches, are white guys? And I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing or anything, but there's been a lot of talk on i'm like you know getting a lot of different types of head coaches there correct but i've always thought you know like if you need to find the best individual for a job for that specific job you can't necessarily be like

you know overlook him because this guy's Asian or this guy's whatever. And we don't have a lot of head Asian coaches, correct? I don't think there is any, any, any, right. Are there any head black coaches?

I don't know either. Like, yeah, there's a few, there's a few, right. Um, but it is,

it is kind of odd because like, obviously a majority of the players are that raw are black. And maybe there are knowledgeable players that could be coaches or something but but when you because you've probably heard of this situation what are your thoughts on that i'm just just curious since you are in the or you were in the nfl so maybe you'd have an interesting take on that hmm yeah i know it's it's it's a rough situation but it's just like as it relates to what like the fact that there aren't enough minorities to be head coaches? You want to be able to have opportunities.

They have to exist for opportunities for people, minorities and whatnot. I think more so I'm curious, do you think that... Because again, the best individual should get the job, no matter what. That is my belief. I agree with that. You can't toss somebody in a job because they're, you can't just say you're a black guy. It's like, or an Asian guy or a Mexican guy. They're not the best person for the job.

They're not the best person for the job. But from what you've seen, do you think that enough people are actually even getting an opportunity to apply for those positions or not yeah that's a good question i i'm not the one giving that opportunity so i i i wouldn't even know how that even you know if that's even the case you know those are that's some of the higher ups and and i do know that they talk that they've had conversations and this this gets to be difficult to like figure out but like they talk about a lot of the owners in the nfl um and how a lot of the owners know each other they're they have a network of people and they talk about these different gatherings and different things that they have in the nfl

and because most of the owners are white they they end up with white friends. You know, they don't have, they don't, they don't have a lot of other ethnicities that are within arm's reach of them, I guess you'd say. And so the NFL has tried to institute some things to, to assist with that. But that is a little bit weird in and of itself to say, like, now you got to bring in, you got to kind of have these other friends. You know, it's like, I don't, there's no, my point is like, it seems like there's no clean way to do this. Yeah,

it all kind of sounds interesting, but like, I would say there is, I would say there is an initiative. Right. You know, there is. Right. And yeah, any attempt is, I guess a good attempt to, it might be the wrong thing, but then we can end up fixing whatever's wrong. Correcting. You swing one way, you correct the other.

Yeah, keep working on it. Even with the Rooney rule, right? What is that? So basically, an organization has to interview a minority coach in order to make a new hire hire or something like that i'm sorry if i'm butchering that but do coaches um i don't know this would be a hard question for you to answer but like as a fan i see that as like oh they're just doing it because they have to they're not actually interested in hiring this person so does that coach see that as a true opportunity or are they like damn i'm I'm the poster boy for this hire?

You got him on the hot seat. Here's the thing. It would be how they would interpret it. And I don't speak for anybody in terms of how they feel about whatever, you know, you know, I don't know. I know there are a lot of qualified coaches out there, a lot of good ones that are more than qualified to be head coaches. And to what degree how they feel, you know, I don't know. Shifting gears, going on to something lighter.

Where did you start? How did you get interested in this? How did you get excited about being a strength coach? Yeah, so I started at the University of Utah in 1998. Spent two years there. From there, I had a short stint at Utah State for about six months and then went to Arizona State. Spent four years at Arizona State. Tell us about who was at Arizona State.

I think it's interesting. You got Kyle Kingsbury, right? Oh, shit. Yeah, Kyle. Kyle was on our football team. Kyle Kingsbury. He was jacked. He was big, right?

I mean, he's jacked now. He looks great. He was 280. D-line. Seriously? He was 280? Yeah. Worked his butt off.

That sounds terrifying. Yeah, he was huge. Cain Velasquez? Yeah, Cain was on the wrestling team. Ryan Bader was on the wrestling team. Oh, my God. C.B. Dalloway. Man, if these guys were on the football team,

they'd be killing everybody. Yeah, John Moraga was also in the UFC. Aaron Simpson, who was in the UFC for a bit. He was the assistant coach. Yeah, there was like eight dudes on that wrestling team that went on to the ufc so yeah a lot of good good group of guys really good group of guys um a couple olympians on the track and field team uh i worked with volleyball i think you kind of learned the most

at asu like to prepare you for the next couple stages without a good strong pivot point there i i would say i would say i I learned a lot of things there. I mean, I learn everywhere I go. That's just been my whole mindset. And I'm always striving to do that. So one more than the other. It really took off learning-wise being in the NFL because you really start to appreciate

and understand how it's really hard to get the best better. And in order to do so, it takes a level of nuance and detail. So you got to really dive in and be very detailed in what you do. And so I would say that. But it built, right?

It compounded. It definitely built throughout the years but i was always open to it and that's that's what was helped me the most right so after utah after arizona state i got the head job at utah state spent uh four years there and then from there i went to the 49ers and then 49ers to the vikings how much education did you get um aside from you know going aside from being an actual strength coach yeah how many seminars and did education did you get aside from, you know, going aside from being an actual strength coach? Yeah. How many seminars and did you did you go to college specifically for like kinesiology?

Yeah. So I went to I got a degree in exercise sports science at the University of Utah. And then from there, I have a master's in education from Arizona State. But I'm telling you, the learning happened outside the classroom, as you know, right? The hours spent, you know, training and visiting with folks, you know, every year I took it upon myself to, you know, learn from everybody. You know, we'd hop in a car, House and I, and travel the country and visit with people. Coach House, it always comes back to him every time. All roads lead back to Coach House. Yes. And so we would do that. And it was actually a real special time and, you know, just a lot of great, great experiences there.

And then I met with James in, I think it was 2007. I visited with Buddy Morris at Pitt. Was some of that through Elite? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, we all knew each other, right? Everybody was, you know, House was kind of at the forefront of that. So, you know, we all knew each other, right? Everybody was, you know, House was kind of at the forefront of that.

I was, you know, kind of the guy behind the scenes and, you know, yourself and JL and, you know, all those guys, Wendler, Tate, the whole crew. Like everybody kind of, Martin Rooney, right? Martin Rooney. But yeah, that's kind of, you know, Elite Fitness kind of brought a lot of those guys together. And then it just kind of started moving from there. And I really just, my eyes got wide open in terms of what it really took to prepare. And I was just been on a mission ever since. I might be old in thinking this, but I don't think there's a network like that anymore. I would agree.

I would agree with that. That was a good crew. Really good crew. That's a lot of names. I mean, we literally, I remember one year, House and I would, we visited with Jim and Dave Tate in a Mexican restaurant in Tucson, Arizona. And we ate dinner twice. We had lunch. You ate dinner twice in the same day?

We literally were like writing stuff on the napkins in a restaurant, in a Mexican restaurant in Tucson. They were there to do a seminar. We showed up at 11 a.m and left at 9 p.m and it was like non-stop we didn't leave the place and it was things like that right it was things like that where we got in a car to go to do these things and you know it's just kind of what we did you know hey you can't be successful at that or even like that if you're not interested in it correct yeah just fucking leave after a certain point like i'm tired of talking about training yeah so that's kind of we were like really into it back then with that stuff and and and then it evolved and changed and i just you

know kept an open mind and kept perspective and really kind of it kept on coming back to what are we doing and why are we doing it that's what it always came back to and then you know me linking up with james uh smith back you know, I think it was 07 or 08, you know, we just really hit it off and connected. And, you know, ever since things just started going from there. Okay. I'm, I'm, I'm so curious, was there ever a point and maybe there wasn't because of the way you're talking about it, but was there ever a point in your career that you kind of got comfortable with what you knew? Like it's never good to get comfortable with what you want i found that out um but a lot of people like when something you're doing works yeah like when you when you've set up

a type of programming you set up nutrition so many people and it works you're like this is the way you get comfortable did that ever happen to you during your career? No. No, it's still not, right? Yeah. Like for me, it was like I kind of wanted to trailblaze and kind of set a path. And what's happened with that, if being honest with you, what's happened is I've created a bit of a gap because the way of thinking is just a little bit different than most. Mm-hmm. But I just kind of know because I poked holes in it left right and center in terms of what you do correct and and I'm just like tell me if there's a better way tell me like I want to know what do you think poke holes in this you're be critical of this and I've done that and and really that's how you make progress right is to be able to step back and look at things poke holes and things question things

and then get other people too like what do you think right like and i kept on getting the same response from everybody like whoa you guys are on to something here like that's that and or why aren't people doing that and that's kind of where i'm at now like i'm really in that place in that position where it's like you can't't, it's, I can't comprehend or you can't tell me any different. I'm willing to listen, but you can't tell me that that's not right. And just in my mind, I'm like, tell me. And if you can, you know, somebody prove it wrong, please do.

And so I, I've always felt that way. And I think what happens is when you look at the game itself and what that entails you can't deny that you need to do that to get better at that not something that has nothing to do with that and so i've always felt that way right because i was a guy that was you know gifted in the weight room and in in all these things but i knew it just wasn't about that. I knew it was about playing football and then what it took to do that. And so that's kind of where I just transitioned in my mind changed to, to develop that understanding. Like this is what it really takes.

And so I think sky's the limit because, you know, soup to nuts, like top to bottom, nobody's fully integrating that way, but it's coming. I have a cook. So that makes me wonder something. like top to bottom, nobody's fully integrating that way, but it's coming. I have a cook. So that makes me wonder something. When you were mentioning how James Smith thinks that there should be a coach that kind of understands aspects of everything. Maybe

they're not a specialist, but they understand aspects of everything, right? There's so many different rabbit holes of types of programs and programming strength for different types of sports out there. But if you were to think of, you know, I guess five required or, or just like things that people could read a purchase by right now, that if they were to be able to, you know, understand aspects from this book or this book or whatever could give them a general understanding of strength.

What would some of that literature be? Cause I know there's so much and maybe you can't break it into five, but yeah, I mean, the thing is, is, is how is that strength being expressed? Right.

So think about this, right? This is how I look at it. What's essential. What's not essential. Think of an MMA fighter. What's essential, right?

They got a punch. They got a kick. They got an elbow. They got a knee. They got a takedown. They got to defend takedowns. That's essential. You can't question that.

They got to submit. They got to grapple. They got to defend takedowns. That's essential. You can't question that. They got to submit. They got to grapple. They got to, you know, you know, maybe choke, whatever, armbar, whatever. That's essential. Bench press, box jump, cleans. Is that essential? Like, can you be good at MMA and not be good at that? Yeah.

Correct. So what is essential? Start with what is essential. And then now these things may underpin these things down the line, but it's not essential. What's essential? What's not essential? And so a strength is, is, it's a touchy subject because everybody's strength is differently, is different, right?

Like how do you best express it when you're doing whatever it is you're doing? Yeah. For offensive linemen, right? How do they express it? Well, they got to get out the ball. They got to overcome force. They got to sustain force. They got to yield force.

That's different than a linebacker, right? His strength may happen where there's more motion before contact, right? Everything's different, right? So how they express strength, that's what you have to really understand. And somebody might apply more force just because they're kind of mean like they're just like mean like maybe they have intent they're like reckless or they just are really

interested in like just knocking you the hell out whereas somebody else might be like if you're a little bit more on the kind side it doesn't mean that you can't still knock somebody out but you've seen it you know a bunch of times some of these players are they're ferocious yeah you know they have a kind of a mean streak in them which can play against them sometimes because they can get into like fights that they probably shouldn't but it can play to their favor yeah you're right i mean that's a psychological trait right so and when you look at psychological qualities that people have to have for every position is it different do you want your quarterback like that? You want him, you know, trying to knock the crap out of people?

Probably not. Like you want him calm, cool, collected, poised, right? You want those sorts of things. So those are traits that when you look at each individual, what traits do they need to have? What should they have? Right? And so that's where you dive into those things. Okay.

Well, okay. So let me pull back on that even more. Because now, like, yeah, it depends. It depends on the sport. It depends on the position. I get that. Correct. I'm still talking about general understanding, though.

So, like, you know, in an exercise phys degree or whatever, there are going to be certain books that people read, right, or certain texts that maybe you don't end up even applying. certain books that people read, right? Or certain texts that maybe you don't end up even applying, but from all of the studying that you've done from all the reading that you've done through the years, what do you think are some, like just some literal texts that have really had a good effect on your knowledge in terms of general strength training? Yeah. There's, you know, obviously, um, you know, with James's book, the governing dynamics is a, is a great book. It's, it's, you know, you take your time reading that sucker. It's a tough read. Obviously, Mel Siff's super training book, that's the old Bible, right? I grew up following a lot of Charles Poliquin's things, a lot of just kind of in that realm.

I'm Canadian, and so that kind of had an influence on me as well. So yeah, just kind of the old heads, you know, a lot of the old heads. But I pick and choose, right? And I understand really at the end of the day, you know, some of that is all chicken soup, right? You know, some sets, a few sets, some sets, right? At the end of the day, right? Like, does it really matter?

Yay or nay, right? It's debatable. Always based upon whether or not it's a limitation or not right like so for example in the nfl if you get a guy that's just so weak that needs to improve that quality well guess what and it's a limitation we need to we need to bring that up yeah and then here's how we can do that right versus you know a guy that has enough but can express it tenfold well guess what anything we do is going to be very restorative in nature and really kind of getting the kinks out and helping them maintain a certain level of strength right because how can

they express it that's the key right yeah we were talking a little bit about um you know equanimity we've talked about that on the show before and have an even mind and i even mentioned you as mentioned on a podcast uh this week where head my let said mark bell taught me about equanimity which i thought was pretty cool which i learned from jane which i learned from james so i gotta credit credit him with that but that was that was pretty cool for me um in you know your understanding of uh you know kind of gaining this knowledge and being able to apply it to your day-to. How has it transformed your life, your career, your relationships? Yeah, it totally has.

Even with where we're at right now, right? There's a saying with the Tao of the art of war, which is in the midst of chaos lies opportunity. That's kind of how I viewed this whole time. of chaos lies opportunity. That's kind of how I viewed this whole time. And, um, I just knew it wouldn't be helpful to boohoo about anything and, and just have that, that type of mind frame and, and what can I do versus what can I do? And, and, and trust me, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a robot, man. There's times that I get her up regulated, but I'll tell you this, I'm able to kind of reset and kind of get myself back to baseline. Um, you know, it's just a lot of, a lot of things going on in life that, that you're provided and you have these opportunities with how to demonstrate that in itself.

And it's a great quality and trait to have, you know, you're just, you're, you're in a good place. Like, like for me, you know, I'm not in the NFL, I'm doing things on my own and I feel great. I feel great. Like I'm in attack mode as it relates to these things. I just feel great about it and I feel good about it. And I have a tremendous amount of interest in doing what I'm doing right now.

And so that to me is that perspective. Whereas to be honest with you, you know, it's like, Oh, Marco Yamazan, the NFL, it's like 14,

you know, 13 years. They're more worried about it than me. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not worried about it. Matter of fact, I feel good. I don't want to do that right now. That's not where I'm at. And so not to say, like I said, it's a privilege to be in the NFL. And trust me when I say I'm very indebted to a lot of the people that helped me along the way and the people in the NFL, I'm just not in that place right now like i'm okay like i want to do other things right i want to do other things i got my sights set on other things

and um i look forward to doing those how about like what are you going to do with your fitness moving forward because like you've done martial arts you played a bunch of sports we were talking about jiu-jitsu a little bit so for you in the next few years like i assume like yeah you're going to be doing things and working with people but in terms of like your output as far as like you know gym or whatever is concerned what are you going to do with that you know i'm going to continue to do what i've always done and that's i train you know i get up that's like the first thing on my mind what i want to do and um it's just kind of ingrained in me it's it's i've created certain behavior and habits towards those and it's a part of my life and so i'm going to continue to do. And, um, it's just kind of ingrained in me. It's, it's, I've created certain behavior and habits towards those and it's a part of

my life. And so I'm going to continue to do that. I just have a different path in terms of kind of like, you know, some of the things I'm involved with, you know, from a business standpoint that are still in kind of health space and, um, and medical space and, and, and whatnot. But, you know, I just, I'm on a different path. And, but myself personally, I need that. Yeah.

I need that. You guys know what it's like. You know, I need that as part of my day to day of what I do. Right. So the training, the competing, the, you know, I just need that. That's kind of how I've been brought up. As far as your training's concerned, I'm curious about your thoughts on this because I, okay, it's not necessary for somebody who's like a strength coach or a coach to be in amazing shape or whatever. But when I do see an individual who does work with people and they're very out of shape, kind of feel sus about it. Just being real, just being real.

to feel sus about it just being real just being real so like through your career were there ever times where you just were so bogged because your job is extremely it was extremely hectic i can assume did your did you did you ever have to let your health go like out the window or did you ever pay less attention to your health in pursuit of what you were currently doing or did you kind of always keep that at the forefront yeah i i i did because it helped me in other areas too but like needs to say like i'm 240 something i've been 290 before like i mean i'm five foot eight like that's probably it's like who's that guy you know the the fact is is uh you know in when i played i was like i was like in the 80s like that's just kind of now is that the most healthiest to be? No, no, trust me.

I'm not strong as shit. Yeah. But you know, that comes to some, you know, there's other things that come with that, but you know, to, to, to stay on top of it and to practice what you preach, um, is, is important, is important for me. It's part of, it's part of my day to day. You know, you, you've been around some really high level people. I've heard you mention, uh, some of the different people that, you know,

and it's obvious that you've been around, you know, NFL players and, and, uh, high level athletes, professional athletes. What are some of the common traits amongst maybe some of the billionaire millionaire, uh, and professional athletes that you've seen? That's like, like, wow, they kind of always have these two or three traits about them every single time without fail. A lot of it has to do with being resilient and then showing resolve as well, right? Because this is life, right?

So being able to kind of have a bounce back, right? And things that you're faced with and then having resolve, which is being undeterred, things are going to happen and you just got to continue to forge ahead and just kind of, you know, I wouldn't say like the don't quit mentality, but like just really being diligent and almost stubborn in a sense to continue to do things and forge ahead and bust your butt and those sorts of things. So qualities from that, but also people that are willing and humble in a way in which they know they don't know everything, but then what more can they learn? And so that to me is really what stands out.

But like the day-to-day of being resilient and not to be deterred, right? The day-to-day of being resilient and not to be deterred, right? Because this is life and how things happen. And to just view things in a way that best serves you, that's important for me. Yeah, that resilience is huge. And it's something I was with some friends this weekend, and we got talking about some business stuff. And they mentioned how they've almost been deterred by a bunch of different things over the years. How they saw this company do this thing, they saw this person do that thing, and they kind of were like, oh, shit, I think I should do that.

They got into that mentality of just thinking that, but luckily for them, they never did it. And they're like, here we are, 20 years later, we're still with a very successful business. So part of the resilience is just just hold your ground and to stay rooted and connected to your core values and say, no, no, no, this is what I'm doing. I'm going to stay right here. I'm going to, I'm going to hang tight and it might not seem like the most exciting move ever, but I'm just not going to fucking move. That's a great point.

Cause like, even like with myself right now, personally, it's like, I, I, I'm going to stay, two things are going to go on with me right now i'm stabilizing and then i'm gonna educate right so i'm stabilizing me and i'm getting everything all my ducks in order right i'm being i'm kind of fluid right right now but i'm stabilizing and i'm gonna educate like what's the next step what's next action that's my mindset i need to educate myself on that even more so so i'm doing things as it relates to that but i get to stabilize myself first and as it relates to lifting i remember the first couple times i when i was pursuing a thousand pound squat i remember in training and i would do like 900 or i had certain training days that were going to be really heavy rather than thinking about the weight or

thinking about how hard any of it was going to be i was just like you know what i just, I'm going to stand up to this weight and I'm just going to maintain my position throughout the range of motion. Cause that's really what it is. If you boil it down, that's how you're trying to do. And I'm like, I'm just not going to fucking move. Like, I don't care what happens. I don't care how heavy I think it feels or whatever. I'm just going to, I'm just going to hold tight.

And it's worked for me, like in all aspects of life, just to kind of hold your ground. Don't, don't panic. The other thing you, you have mentioned in the past, Mark, that, that of hold your ground. Don't, don't panic. The other thing you, you have mentioned in the past Mark that, that I adhere to too is the consistency, right? Like you talk about it kicking motivations, but like just being consistent, right? And so there's always opportunities to do that.

And there's always opportunities to have these little successes and what it is that you're doing and kind of creating habits for yourself and everybody, everybody does this but i'm telling you that it works yeah touching the wall like we did today when we were walking just keep touching the just because you told yourself i'm gonna do that you know what i'm saying i didn't hear that touching what uh i just like when i walk like especially if i walk in the gym sometimes i just take i do like i just like take a lap you know i just i'll do some push-ups and i'll just walk up and down the turf and i'm like like, I'm going to touch the wall.

You know, I touched the wall cause that's the finish point. And then I touched the garage door and I'm like, I just said something to myself and I just actually did it. You know what I mean? Like, how simple is that? Like you can do this with anything you do with brushing your teeth,

taking a shit, taking a shower, shaving, shaving your, your face or your balls or your head or whatever it is that you, that you're doing. You can say something to yourself and say like, Hey, shaving your face or your balls or your head or whatever it is that you're doing. You can say something to yourself and say like, hey, like I just did it. Give yourself a pat on the back for it.

Yeah. That kind of goes into what you were mentioning before, though, when it comes to the way you interpret things. Like when you start paying attention to that or like just like when you start actually making intention to do something, everything you do, you're going to start making that a practice. So even with the little, like touching the wall or making sure that you make a decision to do that, it will play into other aspects of what you do. Yeah. And just, you know what happens to like, you know, for me personally, like even today,

um, I haven't pressed and I don't know how long I got blown up. Okay. And I found, I called myself, I got blown up okay and I found I caught myself I complained a little bit and I told I said all right that's enough don't don't even complain like just catching yourself do these things and because language is important language is key right just even talking about certain things it's just like I'm not gonna deny it I'm not some you know no magic potion here I got blown up but fact of the matter is me complaining about it, especially to Mark, was going to

do nothing. Yeah. So just shut up and fucking do it, you know? Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, you catch yourself with this because just in how you talk or how you infer, like, it's just not helpful, right? And you could just say, I heard the complaint, it registered, you know, but denied, you know, like you're not, you're not giving it any

credit i mean sometimes there might be something legitimate like oh i should i should tell him that i tore my shoulder i tore my rotator cuff three weeks ago i should probably you know mention that you know yeah anything just because again you've worked at the highest level of athletes you've had access to just like crazy pieces of equipment probably. So from what you've done through the years, are there any aspects of maybe training recovery that people maybe might be thinking of or that you don't hear talked about as much that you've used when it comes to athletes you've worked with training recovery? Um,

I, I will say this. Um, when you look at even modalities of, of any type of recovery modality, it's, it's, there's a commonality and a foundation and that's pressure release just in a different form, right? So chiropractor pressure release, massage, pressure release, the, you know, the boots, everything's pressure release.

So really what works best and what you're, you know, I know guys that, you know, say cold plungers are, are helpful that absolutely despise doing it. Well, if they hate doing it, don't put them in there. It's not going to work. Right. So it's, it's that like really kind of what works well for you. And so everybody's different, but I do, but i do think that needs to be sequenced and organized correctly versus just you know doing a bunch of things that kind of like you're hoping

it works right so yeah it's like supplements right you hope you hope things work so having that sequence and that understanding of the demands of what you're recovering from and then what the end result is from that right like so i would you got to be specific too and and that can change per individual and from what it is that they're recovering from and maybe just looking at the program like if you think you need all those things all the time well that's that's the thing too right so what what i try to do is try to steer them away from doing that especially because you want to allow the body to do what's naturally supposed to do. And that's recover.

Adapt. Right? So the soreness, that's fine. Let the body go through that process versus doing all the, everybody's so quick to put something on or jump into something or do whatever. Just let the body do what it's supposed to do. Right? Sleep good. Eat good.

Rest up. Warm up correctly you know do those things right no there's no magic solution how was it having actually to deal with sleep when it comes to athletes because i imagine pro athletes well you know they know how important training is they know how important performing on the field is but they probably have a lot of great things that they can do outside of sure you know, all of that. So how do you get them to actually take sleep seriously as that's probably the biggest aspect of the recovery overall? Yeah, it's one thing you have control over. You know, here's the thing as it relates to that.

Some of the best teams you've been around, they've been the ones that were the ones that didn't sleep as much, right? But, you know, it's important, right? Some of the best teams. Wait, really? You know, the guys like to do their thing right so the thing is the thing the thing is right and and you know i've i've done some things with not much sleep myself so the thing is is is it is all starts with the education and the importance and you know you just come on man like it's newsflash sleep's important right like no you gotta sleep come on yeah yeah probably hard to get the message across to someone who's 25 years old and uh has tons of money and whatever else yeah i can recover quick and you know can

do an all-nighter and show up and kick ass right yeah it's not everybody's like that if they're successful and they're winning there's a lot more stuff to do because more people want to hang out. Yeah. That actually makes me curious. So now that, you know, when you've maybe paid attention to some of the older athletes that have still been in the NFL, because it's rare for an older guy to be there for a long amount of time. Yeah. What is the difference between them and other guys? Maybe I know positionally, maybe they're not in as rough of a spot.

But at the same time, like, if you're able to last a long time in that league. What's the difference? I would say the difference is a couple of things. They know when the camera's on. So what that means is they're not blowing their wad during an individual period, killing themselves. I think what happens is least amount of effort to get the optimal result, right? Yeah. Seriously.

Yeah. It's about game day at the end of the day, right? Uh-huh. So whatever it is to prepare for game day, you're going to do. But game day is not on Wednesday, right? Mm-hmm. Be smart in how you're approaching and working back from the game. And understand your gears, especially.

Everybody's all gung ho week one of training camp, right? Kick it down a notch, let everything, let all your emotions, let everything subside. Yeah. Then you start kicking into gear. So understanding when to turn it on and when to turn it off.

You know, I coached a guy that he's a hall of famer now. And one of the things I said, you know, he played 16 years. I said, how have you been doing it so long? And he says, you know, I know when the camera's on, he played 16 years. I said, how have you been doing it so long? He says, I know when the camera's on. He knows when to turn it up. The best ones make it look good all the time.

Even though the intensity may be down, they still make it look really good. You've got to know how to do that. I think there's an old story about Magic Johnson. He got into a game for the Lakers when he was like a rookie, and he ended up with the ball at the end, and he made the shot. And I think he might have took over for like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or something. Kareem got hurt. I mean, it wasn't normal for Magic Johnson to play center,

but for a particular game, if I'm remembering some of this correctly, he hits a game-winning shot, and everyone goes crazy, and he gets like just people are just going nuts about it. He walks to the locker room, and he's crying because he just can't believe that things went down this way, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar goes to him, and he's like, hey, man, that's just like what we do. That's a regular season game. Good job.

Hey, we won the game but yeah we played tomorrow night you know as well you know chill out we're good right yeah so it's it's it's guys like that that have that understanding right they know when when when it's time to really crank it up you know and when you look at it like even during like a playoff type situation yeah as much as you say okay hey it's just a game guys crank it up even more and that's just kind of part of it um you know they're definitely not playing like that in the preseason game right preseason game they're working on things tightening things up but they know when to turn it loose right so that's that understanding of that andrew being a uh long time or short time bandwagoner of

the 49ers you probably have a couple of questions over there. No. Well, I mean, okay. So apparently I've been a lifelong Niner fan for like half a year, even though I've shown pictures of me being like two years old, wearing a cleaner gear.

We claim they're a Photoshop. Yeah. Everyone thinks they're Photoshopped. Yeah. Okay. No, no. I mean,

you answered a bunch of stuff with like kaepernick and that sort of thing and my questions like again like as just an outside fan like that one day is like so huge for me it's like man do these players even care do they understand like how impossible it is to get back here but after what you were just saying i'm like oh shit that that's amazing that they feel that way too. Um, and again, this only comes up because it relates to what Superbowl. Yeah.

Yeah. No, but I mean, just everything in general. Like, I mean, you know, I grew up,

they're not going to believe me as a Niner fan. So I was born into Montana rice, Superbowl wins. Like, Oh, this is great. Yeah. As an adult,

fuck, I've been let down a lot, you know? So when I see this and I'm like, Rice, Super Bowl wins. Like, oh, this is great. As an adult, fuck, I've been let down a lot, you know? So, when I see this and I'm like, man, like, why isn't it clicking? Like, why aren't they playing the way they're supposed to be playing? We're not going to be back here next year. I don't care what you're saying. But the fact that you said, you know, like, no, they do care a lot about it. You know, a lot of moving parts, right?

A lot of things come into that. So many things have to fall in place. And, you know, you got to deal with injuries and then other teams injuries and all that shit. It's just, it's so wild to me. And yeah, dude, it's weird how like a grown man can be on the outside looking in and be so invested in something like that. You know, and again, it's just me being a fan sure and you know having you here well like shit dude the first week i was here you you've remembered how long i had been here yeah meeting you was like a huge day for me i was bragging about that for like

months guess who i got to hang out with that was so cool so yeah i don't have any like actual like hard questions in regards to the niners other than just you know being just grateful to actually met and know you absolutely that's so cool mutual and you know the thing is i always tell people you know it's it's not fantasy football for us right right you know it's kind of the day-to-day and what you think it is and trust me it's not yeah it's a lot a lot goes into it and you know you invest a lot of yourself into it and you know like I said it's very demanding but it is an absolute privilege yeah so after you left San Francisco did you leave them in good hands you know what I did you know I those guys there man I was there ten

years and and top to bottom had a really good relationship with those guys and still do. Still do. A lot of those guys there. And, you know, it's not too many of the players are still there, but I do communicate with a lot of the people still there and have some friends for life. And the players that were there, you know, when I was there, I still communicate and talk to all the time all the time so the uh the culture that was built there in that long that long yeah it was a special it was a special group of guys yeah absolutely like if you talk to any of the guys that were you know there when we were there with the justin smiths and frank gore's of the world and patrick willis's i mean you're

talking about a special group like a really like you're not finding that you know it was we played dallas this year and alden smith ran past and i talked to him before and you know it was just a pretty you just don't find that group of guys that we had and um you know we we missed a couple opportunities patrick willis how hard was that for him like uh for you guys like i i mean he had to walk away when he had to walk away but like he was like one of the best guys in the whole league oh and not to mention one of just the best people it's cool because it's like his well-being is at stake I guess you know and he doesn't want to play anymore but at the same time you're probably like come on dude like

he knew when the time was right and that was was his decision. And, you know, obviously we support him. You know, Patrick Willis, salt of the earth, just great, great guy, great person. Everything you want. I mean, just a beast out there, just an absolute beast and a leader and a multiplier. And, you know, obviously the talent speaks for itself. But, you know, somebody I still keep in contact with. I've seen him in a slingshot before, too. Yes, yes, you have. He loves to train. It looks like he loves to train. Yeah, he still still keep in contact with. I've seen him in a slingshot before too. Yes, yes, you have.

He loves to train. It looks like he loves to train. Yeah, he still does. Yep, absolutely. Yep, he does. I don't think we ever actually got to understand, but having coached so many sports, I mean, you said volleyball, wrestling, football,

and something else. Track and field. Track and field. Was being an NFL coach the goal the whole time? Or did you have – Yeah, it was. It was. How long was that?

Like was it since you were a kid? No, as soon as I – obviously you want to play in the NFL, right? Yeah. So for me, I had these goals of being in the Pac-10 back in the day. Like when I coach, I'm going to be in the Pac-10, then I'm going to be in the NFL. Well, you know, I was in the Pac-10 the, with the, um, ASU with Arizona state and then NFL. That was the goal.

Trust me. I was been talking like this since I got in the field. Yeah. That was the goal. Uh, along the way, again, I really appreciate, I was appreciative of those other sports. Uh, because it expanded, expanded my knowledge and my growth as well. But I enjoyed those other sports. Like I'm a huge volleyball fan,

huge volleyball fan, love the sport. Yeah. Right. And so I got to learn the sports and, and what it took to, to, to do well in those.

And I became a fan of those sports and still am. Yeah. Now, this is probably the last things I want to kind of understand. Cause you, you mentioned like, you know, you,

you were saying the explosiveness of a track athlete, the spatial awareness of a volleyball player, et cetera. There was a point that you were thinking about how like these things could make the ultimate football player. Yeah. But when then you said you like, did you say like you kind of switched your mindset to paying specific attention

to the sport of football and then everything else was applied to that yeah so i understood that like because at that time you know the lens in which i was looking through was just one of which of improving physical traits like improving improving these guys physically yeah then i started to understand like wow the physical traits are what underpin the specific techniques and the tactics and the psychological i started piecing it all together and developing an understanding of how that in itself your psychological state can influence everything can make your your physical traits diminish or emerge and so that's kind of when i started opening my eyes to how it's all connected and really those

physical traits in the nfl they wouldn't be there if they didn't have them. They just would not be there. They have physical traits. The best ones have those other components. The psychological components that you're speaking about. Psychological, sensory motor, your processing, your decision making, your ability to think and respond and react.

They have those. The react they have those the best ones have those it's probably going to be a while before uh this app is released can you speak about the app or are you guys trying to keep it on a download yeah you know what i are you bringing is james coming out here yeah yeah i'd love for him to speak on that i can speak on it as it relates to me and and and being an advisor uh to to that but uh yeah he's he's on to something special there with with that and with nova send and and that whole deal and i'd like you know he he can expound upon that yeah how did you get yourself uh involved in some technology like in the tech world yeah you know i i i met uh obviously being in the city right right

in meeting this you know being in the silicon valley you just kind of you you meet people and you rub shoulders with people and i met a friend of mine um in like 2014 2015 and we just really hit it off and and you know our the stars aligned and so that's kind of, he, he knows and has an understanding of, of really, if you provide something of value, you wrap tech around it, you can scale, and then you help somebody be a profits under that model of business.

It can be very successful. And this is kind of what we've done with some of the things we're doing. The scaling is unlimited, unlimited, and the compounds. And it's, it's a massive, you have a massive reach. What's the context? Like i know you but i don't want you can't go specifically

are we is this like a fitness thing is it it's not a fitness thing it's more med tech versus health and wellness yeah yeah okay it's a lot of what you shared today it's a lot of sure you know helping people with their mind yeah so that that's that right so there's it's really lot of, you know, helping people with their mind. Yeah. So that's that, right? So it's really kind of, that's one of the tentacles. One of the branches, yeah. One of the branches. Tentacles. One of the tentacles.

That's one of them, right? So that's more the, you know, and I don't want to do it a disservice, you know, and, you know, Mark, you've gone through some of this. you know mark you you've gone through some some of this it's it's just really helpful really helpful things and and things that kind of open your mind to you know like what is possible and and kind of how to view things and kind of you know how to approach your your and how to be immune to things and and kind of look stress-free curious that's pretty cool stuff inoculated there you go right sounds? Sounds awesome. Sounds sick. Yeah. So the name of it is called Novacend, right?

Yeah, that's James's deal. And it means new mind. Correct. So it's trying to get you to wrap your brain around having new ideas and concepts. And the app is not available yet. So if you're looking for it. Yeah, it's not available. It's not there yet. But I know that you guys are

you guys are testing it so we'll see if uh maybe we can get some testers you want me to test i'll test i'll test it's really beneficial and you know james is leading the charge there and and uh that's kind of his you know we're able to to package what it is going on in his mind and be able to transfer it to, to a lot of people. Yeah. It's pretty cool. Cool.

We actually had a quick followup question from a settle gate, the guy, the, uh, with the colleagues that you said, he's just asking about more book recommendations. Um, if you have any recommendations for books on communication and leadership

or even a seminar or something that you went to that helped a lot. Yeah. If I'm being honest with you, I've been fortunate, you know, James and I, I talked to him daily, literally daily,

multiple times a day. And it's, I've just, I'm, he's so, he's knowledgeable and he's been able to, to pass on a lot of information i've been we've been having a theorist experimentalist type relationship for years and so he just takes

that and those categories just to another level because he's able to not only aggregate a bunch of other things in in conjunction but also an understanding of what underpins those, those things in leadership and culture and what have you. He has a dives deep, right? He has explanations that are kind of undeniable when you start to really think about him. I guess if you were to practice some of his things for a longer period of

time, you might be able to poke more holes in it and come up with a, you know, create new knowledge around it. But for in general, um, I asked James some of these things a while back because I used him for some consulting as well. I paid him to consult me. In talking to him, I was like, hey, like, how do I kind of continue my education on

some of this? Because I don't want to use him as a consultant forever. Yeah. Just a time commitment and things like that. And we could probably go on forever because he knows a lot about a lot of different things but in asking him that he's like no one else he wasn't being cocky he's just like no one else does this like it's yeah it's just it's there's there's there's nobody doing it and it would be like if the stoic philosophers uh studied a lot of different things from like science to physics correct because like in

physics with like mathematics and with certain things there's things that are undeniable some of the things that he explains um we we think that things come from our experiences right like we think that like oh this guy uh and seaman knows a lot about jujitsu because he experienced it but it's like well that doesn't really hold up very well because we've never experienced a star. You know, we've never, no one's ever been inside of a star that I know of and lived to tell the story. But we know a fucking crazy amount of shit about stars, you know, and planets. And these are places that we never even visited.

These are places that we've never even seen. We've never even collected dirt from there. And so, anyway, it takes you through all those things and lays out a lot of good explanations on even just the very fact of how knowledge is created. And once you start to understand that, it makes you kind of question other things. You're like, it's kind of annoying, really, because you have to go back and clean out your closet. Yeah. Your old thoughts, you've got to scrape through them. You do.

But here's the thing. You really want to evolve and get better, then be willing to do that. Because for me personally, I would question, and I'm okay, like, guess what? Things I've done in my career and things I've done to this point in preparation and training players was wrong, flat out wrong. But I'm okay with that. You know what? I'm okay with that. And I know that to be true. Okay. That's not saying that everything is, you know, whatever he says means, you know, that's not saying that trust me, I've tried to poke holes in everything I've tried. And once you understand concepts, then you see it. It's just like, wow. Like every day you're

getting these light bulb moments of opportunities to, to put these things into practice. And you said, you don't want to be a consultant your whole life. Well, you know, there is a platform in which they, we built, you know, the platform too. It's an error identification, error correction platform that helps moderate situations or what have you within organizations that is the the ongoing way in which you can you know you can demonstrate what you're learning but what are you talking about so with novacend it's oh no okay so novacend it's not just like hey listen to this app and yada yada yada you're on your way. Like, no, it's there's,

there's a platform that coincides with the application. I don't, do you know this Mark? I do know a little bit about it, but I haven't seen that. Okay. Well, I'm gonna tell you this, that thing's pretty cool. Now you put the ego aside, right? And it's best idea wins and Hey, it's problem solution and let's figure things out. And it's not anonymous where guys can, you know, actually, you know, work to solve things.

Right. And it's no egos about it. Now, had you not gone through the consulting, you know, you know what a forum is, you know, guys are bitching about this,

that, and the other, and fuck who, I don't want to hear it, but this is different. Once you go through that, and then now you do these things, you'd be surprised at what can actually happen, right?

When you do that. And so you just put to practice, it's an opportunity to put those things into practice. And, you know, he's onto something with that. Just kind of imagine like if the goal was like literally not for you to get better, but for everyone to get better. Like, because if you raise the whole room up, like when you go to jujitsu, you raise the whole room up, it's going to be so much easier for you to get better like because if you raise the whole room up like when you go to jiu-jitsu you raise the whole room up it's going to be so much easier for you to get better so imagine just and these conversations are never really had but imagine if everyone had equal

power and equal say and kind of like what happens and you guys do a lot of that because you say oh i found a better way to do this i found a better way to do that but rather than like um some places have like kind of a dictatorship yeah like this is the way we're going to run class and this is the way it has to be done and it would be or say you're on the mat and you got that guy that comes to train all the time that's just keeping score i tapped three guys today and he's going home with a with a scoreboard you know what i'm saying like that dude like come on relax bro like right but can you imagine the environment where everybody would be working together in that sense?

And, and trust me, it's not a Kumbaya session by any means, but it is, it is understanding that there's going to be a work amongst one another. You're going to help each other. Hey, you may know how to solve this better than I do or what have you. And I'm okay with that. I'm in a position myself personally. I'm okay. I'm good. Tell me, how can we do it better? Let's or what have you. And I'm okay with that. I'm in a position myself, personally, I'm okay. I'm good.

Tell me, how can we do it better? Let's do it. Right. Versus ego driven. Right. And, and then have something like that,

that, that can kind of disturb the function of what I'm maybe telling the guy, like you use the same move every time to tap everybody out. Let's have you not use that move and see what other skills you can develop without getting emotional. Yeah. Right. Right.

Exactly. Yep. Okay. So yeah, it's pretty cool stuff obviously you know james will probably come through here and be on for 75 hours correct and and and and you know in i mean he's you know he does a nice job with that yep yeah i'm working uh with him to like pay him to consult the entire team. And the reason why it's taken a little bit to set it up is I would like it to be more ongoing. I don't want him just to come here for a couple days and give you guys a little bit of stuff and then have you guys be thoroughly confused. I would rather have it be a little bit more ongoing than that. So that's what we're working on.

Wow. Yeah. Good stuff. Wow, dude. I'm psyched. I'm so fucking psyched right now. Yeah.

That's, that's, you guys are in for a treat there. That's, it's really cool for me to see and probably for you as well, being a friend. And then you also, you know,

assisting him kind of through this process. It's been great for me to watch from the outside. Cause this is a guy who was a strength and conditioning coach. He did really well with it. He obviously could have continued to push it. He didn't love what he was doing any longer with that process, and he was learning other stuff, studying other stuff. He goes in like a deep, deep dark hole and never comes back out of it

until kind of more recently, and it looks like he's coming out the other end and just, it looks like financially, it looks like in all aspects of his life that he'll be really be taking a large step forward. And for me, that's really cool to watch because he, he is smart as he is. When he asked me questions about like slingshot and stuff like that,

I could see how disconnected he sometimes is to stuff. He's like, has that been profitable for you? I just hang up on him. Is that fitness that you're working out over? He's definitely in his own world with that. Yeah, that's him. Interesting cat. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's him. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting cat.

I remember one time, uh, he was just telling me like he was frustrated a bunch of stuff. This is a, this is a bunch of years ago back when he was allowed to be frustrated, but he's like, to me, like things should be more simple. Like a bedroom should just have a bed. I was like, I can, now I'm starting to see how this guy's divorced. He was like, you know, things should just be more black and white. He's just, he's a mad man, but we love him. Absolutely.

Makes sense. Andrew, want to take us on out of here, buddy? I will. Thank you everybody for checking out today's episode. Thank you everybody on the live stream for chatting. We had Zach Evan S check in, who's actually going to be on the podcast tomorrow. I know. It's just another one of those strength coaches, right? Let's throw them all in there.

Let's go. Yeah. Thank you to Pete Montese for sponsoring today's episode. Code PowerProject for 25% off. Links down in the description below, as well as the iTunes show notes. Please make sure you follow the podcast at MarkBell's Power Project on Instagram, at MBPowerProject on TikTok and Twitter. My Instagram, Twitter,

whoever the hell you want to find me is at IamAndrewZ. Nseema, where you at? I'm at Nseema Inyang on Instagram, YouTube, Clubhouse, TikTok, Nseema Inyang on Twitter. Mark? Mark? Yeah, no, I support all you guys. I'm not social media here, but I support you guys. Alright. Just before

we bow out, somebody wants to be a strength and conditioning coach, what's one thing they should look to do? You asked me if I think strength and conditioning coaches should exist, right? Be a coach. Work on being a coach.

Understand the game, work back from there. And just go and figure it out, right? Go tell somebody. work on being a coach, understand the game, work back from there. Yeah. And just, and just go and figure it out, right? Like go, go tell somebody, go find somebody that you can learn from.

And exactly. And work back from what, what the target is. You mentioned you started out as an unpaid intern, right? Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. You're going to have to do some grinding out. Strength is never weak. This week, this never strength. Catch you guys later.