Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 578 - Magic Mushrooms with Psilocybin Expert "T"

Episode Date: August 20, 2021

Today we have a special guest that we will simply call, "T". T is an expert in all things psychedelics from years of experience and research. Today he answers all of our questions from micro to macro dosing, different forms of fungi and all the benefits and dangers of taking them. DO NOT TRY THESE YOURSELF, EVER. WE ARE NOT DOCTORS AND DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE TAKE ANY OF THESE SUBSTANCES. DON'T DO IT. Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Special perks for our listeners below! ➢Marek Health: https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT15 for 15% off ALL LABS! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Eat Rite Foods: http://eatritefoods.com/ Use code "POWERPROJECT25" for 25% off your first order, then code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off every order after! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: http://drinklmnt.com/powerproject ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Subscribe to the Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

Nseema, you work with a lot of people. What do you see as a common issue or hurdle or something that people have a hard time with when it comes to maybe drop some LBs or even gain some LBs or just stay on track with their diet? Well, everybody has different lives. Everybody's busy to a different extent. I have this guy I work with. He's a cop, so he's literally in a car almost all day long. And when he gets off, it's very easy on his drive home to go try and maybe get a stop at Jack in the Box or McDonald's. That's why I suggest a lot of busy people to find a way to work with a meal prep company. Try to get some meals on deck so that you can literally just either warm it up at work before you leave or go home, warm it up so you don't spend time cooking. And that's where Eat Right Foods is pretty awesome because they have a lot of great meal selections that you can just literally warm up eat tastes amazing you're good to go yeah and a lot of people don't like don't know you can just hit up a gas station go use their microwave

if you want your hot foods yeah um really though like just the meal prep in general sometimes can be a pain but what's worse is just not being prepared so we want you guys to be prepared and with eat right foods not only is it going to taste amazing, but it's just going to be the easiest meal prep you've ever done because you don't have to do it. Head over to eatrightfoods.com. That's E-R-I-T-E foods.com. At checkout, enter promo code POWERPROJECT. 25 for 25% off your first order. Not going to leave you hanging, though, because after that, use promo code POWERPROJECT for 10 10 off everything after that again that's at

eat right foods.com head over there right now is that in sema or is that mushrooms shit hello god is black female we learned recently yes oh god that was a good one that was a good one hey man you never know we don't know are we live we're not live we're recording now yeah so if you guys don't know what we're talking about there's this alan watts video where he talks about the idea of god and death um and it sounds like we're trying to be funny here but there's actually something there so just go watch it so you don't think we're trying to be offensive, please. Because that coming from your mouth sounds like a problem. Coming right from my mustache.

He looks like Michael Jordan, though, so it's okay. Can you tell the story? Can you please give context? Every time I shave my head, I don't know why I do this every time, but every time my hair grows out a little bit, when I shave my head, I always like shave it all weird. Like sometimes I do like a road warrior cut, like a reverse Mohawk, or sometimes I do like a regular Mohawk. And then I always just shave it all off. And then I was messing around with my face and I had like a goatee and then I had a mustache and I was like, that looks hilarious. So I showed my, uh, my my my nephews and they were like

oh my god they're like i didn't know you could have a mustache they're like this is amazing they were so excited so i'm like all right fuck it i'm leaving it and uh yeah my nephew uh hamish and my my nephew uh lachlan they were like super pumped that i had this mustache so then i messed around and posted up a couple pictures on social media and then somebody sent me a picture of Michael Jordan. They're like, you look exactly like Michael Jordan

with that mustache. I was like, yeah, of course. I see the resemblance. How does Andy feel? I'm just curious. Does she like it? She's my wife. She hates everything I do. I'm just curious. Does she like it? She's my wife.

She hates everything I do. Okay. Anything that makes me happy, that makes me laugh, she hates. Touché on that, right? That's a big deal. Yeah. So people are seeing a different camera angle right now. Uh-oh.

Yeah. There's zero context? Do we just leave it that way? No, we give them context. No, you give them context so um is this no you in the title is is he called the plug or what is he called i don't know we can call him the plug i guess okay so don't call him the plug no don't call him the don't call him no no allusion to any of the help but no for sure a friend that has some experience. We'll call him T. T is cool.

T, a friend who knows a lot about mushrooms, but we're just... Psychedelics in general. Psychedelics in general. As well as steroids and as well as supplements. Yes. Very knowledgeable. So we'll be able to dive into all that today. Yeah, but the camera's not going to be on him.

It's going to be on us and Andrew. So that's the context. And also just know that we and our guests have no idea what we're talking about we're not doctors we're just uh this is all comedy uh entertainment entertainment and potential comedy and education so take this information and just shove it right up your ass exactly that's the best place to uh best place to put it so uh many people know my brother chris Bell. He's been talking openly about Kratom and he's been talking openly about psychedelics and all kinds of different things. And my brother is always my gateway. He got me into lifting. He's gotten me into all kinds of different things. things. And, uh, years ago he was telling me about Kratom and I was like, I don't think I need that. Like, I don't, not really in pain. And he was like, yeah, but it helps with like creativity and gives you good energy. And, um, so I was like, eh, stop being such a stiff and maybe just try it.

Like, why not be more open-minded? Why not give it a shot? Gave it a shot. Turned out. I love it. Um, I like Kratom quite a bit, and I use it quite often. Use it before podcasts. Use it before workouts. Occasionally go off of it just to make sure there's not like a huge dependency on it, but I really enjoy it. Like it a lot. And then more recently, I've been kind of messing around with some psychedelics, mushrooms, LSD. Those are the only two that I've dipped my toe in so far. And so far,

so good. I like them. And it's been fun. I haven't really done anything that I would say is like mind-altering. Well, not mind-altering. They certainly are mind-altering. I haven't done anything that's like life-altering yet. But I do like the it kind of feels like therapy to me. Like when you when you take mushrooms or when you take some LSD, it feels therapeutic in a way. And I would say that for me. And again, I'm a rookie to all this and I don't even really drink that often either. But I feel that drinking is more of an escape, which sometimes is warranted and sometimes feels pretty good to kind of, quote unquote, get away from stuff. But that doesn't really suit my mentality very well.

I'd rather be more equipped for life, and I'd rather have skill sets for life that allow me to take on more rather than trying to hide from anything. skill sets for life that allow me to take on more rather than trying to hide from anything. And when it comes to mushrooms or some of these other things that I've been personally exploring, and these are all my own personal experiences with them, I found it to be more like introspective. It's like an, it's an opportunity for me to work on myself. And for that reason, I really love it. I really enjoy it because that is what I've been working on for the last maybe like six or eight years or so. I mean, I posted a picture on Twitter this morning of when I was 330. You know, I've been working on making changes. And it's not just physical changes.

It's changes to my mentality all the way to where I'm trying to whittle everything down to being as positive as possible. But, um, I still got a, a long, a long journey to go there. Um, how did you, uh, start to learn about some of these substances and, and what have you noticed? Um, what have you noticed that they can do for people? Yeah. Yeah. Um, thanks Mark. So, that they can do for people. Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Mark. So, I mean, my kind of experience really started a couple years ago, actually.

You know, I'm really started to experience some stuff with, you know, just like you were saying with alcohol and a few other substances that, you know, like tobacco and things like that, that are just so readily available that I was asking a buddy, you know, hey, you know, like tobacco and things like that, that are just so readily available that, um, I was asking a buddy, you know, Hey, you heard about this microdosing thing. Um, and kind of started to talk to him about it. And he actually was kind enough at the time to give me a bag of mushrooms. Um, and at that time, I think it was around like five or nine grams or something like that. And, you know, I went home and I took what I had taken probably in high school at one point in my life. I really didn't have a lot of experience with psychedelics in any way before this outside of just a mushroom trip in high school, which I think everybody kind of sometimes has the opportunity to run into. But for me, I had a really, really interesting experience, um, going back to it in my later

adult life. Um, you know, I have a family at home, I have a full-time job, very productive member of society. Um, and I held a lot of the same hesitations as, as you, um, with what you just mentioned. And for me, it, you know, it was, it was something that I was looking at as I didn't really know what else was an option. And definitely from a self-medicating standpoint of trying to understand it a little more. So I just took what I thought I knew what to take was just, you know, kind of about a couple grams or something like that.

And I had an incredible experience. And after that, you know, I started to ask more questions and i started to one of those was how can i hey can i can i get some more can i try it again um and at that point it kind of opened up my journey to realistically trying to be as safe as i can um and find a really reliable um source of information about that so that i can learn as much as i could and it's kind of what i've been doing over the past couple years just learning as much as I could. And it's kind of what I've been doing over the past couple of years, just learning as much as I can. And it's been a really interesting experience.

I've met a lot of cool people like yourself. Before we go too deep into some of the cool stuff about it, what are some of the like negatives? What are some of the, you know, what do people got to like watch out for? Is there any like real, like eminent danger that can happen uh with some of

these things because sometimes um there was a situation maybe a couple years ago in bodega uh where a guy supposedly was on lsd he like went nuts attacked his friends he hurt a lot of people um he uh nearly killed someone he like ran someone over with his car. Like he just had this crazy episode. And I believe that he was on like other substances. So it wasn't just the LSD to kind of blame for that. But are there cases where somebody just like loses it? Like, is there some precaution that you got to have?

Because you mentioned you wanted to research it to do it in the safest way. Also, if you have like, is there anything, if you like have a pre-mental disorder or something that you should probably stay away from that is are there any like precautions in that realm too yeah no absolutely um great great questions and great call outs um yeah so first and foremost i mean a i'm not a doctor in any way i'm i'm um you know just learning myself so as we said at the beginning of the show nothing this is all for educational purposes only here but um from my you know my experience as well as some some friends experiences um it's really important um to note that if you do have a personal history of like um bipolar syndrome or other mental illnesses that maybe run in your family as well.

It's something that you should have some hesitation over. I would definitely advise you, again, I'm not a doctor, but you should speak to your healthcare provider about these things in confidence. These things are being more widely accepted as therapeutic options within the healthcare community. There are a lot of new medical journals that are peer reviewed being in some of the higher level circles and how to institute a therapeutic dose with some of these compounds. But to address your question, it 100% needs to be taken with caution if there is some type of history of mental illness. Alternatively, in terms of side effects, overall, candidly speaking, there's very few. you said, Mark, mind altering, but also if there is some type of chemical imbalance or if you are on other compounds such as SSRIs or anti-anxiety medications, Xanax, Klonopin, similar things like the Valium. These are things that you really need to involve a healthcare provider and ask them for drug interactions.

But if you don't have any of those things, the overall side effects or things that we really look out for are overdosing. And particularly on mushrooms, it is very difficult to overdose. I mean, you can take hundreds of grams, albeit you will be very uncomfortable with your experience. Your stomach might hurt. Yeah. Hundreds of grams. But there's no immediate health side effects in terms of, you know, you dying or having a toxic overdose. The toxicity limit is extraordinarily high on both compounds, LSD and psilocybin.

LSD is one of the safest classic psychedelics known to man currently. Same with psilocybin. Interesting. There's a lot of fear. So this is something interesting. is something interesting in my in my family there's there has been individuals who have had because of trauma schizophrenia has come about so for me when like when I before any of this I was very very scared of like any type of psychedelics and I was like ooh if I do a little bit too much I might

not come back luckily like not luckily but like everything ended up being OK. But with that being said, there is a lot of fear with like psychedelics in general. There's a lot of a stigma when it comes like when Mark first told me about LSD. I'm like, what? LSD is acid, right? Like, you know, that shit's not that much. It's that shit's kind of scary. You know, that shit's kind of scary.

So I'm just curious, why do you think that there's such a deep fear and stigma on those drugs currently? Yeah, absolutely. So I think for the most part, a lot of this comes from, you know, I'm a little bit younger than you guys, but I think a lot of this comes from, you know, earlier generations. From, you know, the Woodstock ages of classic psychedelic usage. And I think Jimi Hendrix died at like 26 years old or something like that, right? And so I think that people associate that. He was kind of notorious for doing psychedelics. I think people pin LSD to him, and they think that he somehow died from that. But I believe he died from something else.

I'm not sure. I couldn't speak to to jimmy on that one but um i just think there was a there's a lot of um what's i guess to bridge this together what you were asking there's a lot of medical studies that happened during those early ages of the 1960s 70s um and a lot of those things were phased out and stopped but a lot of the therapeutic effectiveness was kind of already established in the literature yeah and we're just now kind of returning to that now which i think is going to open up a whole new world of therapeutics for people with mental health issues but i also think it's gonna lead into performance as well. Performance. Absolutely.

Okay. How so? Um, particularly I think it, um, for me at least, I know I've, I've had a lot of experiences with psilocybin curbing appetite. I think that psilocybin will, will more than likely make its way into weight loss as a, as a weight loss, uh, drug, drug um as an option for people to try it makes you not want to eat um and if you do eat the food has like hardly any taste so you're just like why even bother yeah the food like kind of feels weird in your mouth it's kind of just like

is this pizza what am i eating here and you don't have to take very much of it either. So, but I also know you've had some experiences, Mark, with some of these compounds with, you know, performance and working out. And I know you've kind of seen some type of positive effects as well. You've worked out on shrines? Yeah. Yeah. And LSD, like running and things like that, like feels really good. Every time you say that, it still catches me. Yeah, right.

LSD. Yeah. Yeah. It, yeah, it feels amazing. that like feels really good every time you say that it still catches yeah right lsd yeah yeah it uh yeah it feels amazing i mean i think you know aside from all the different um and you can explain you know some of what uh is going on on a chemical level but aside from the science of it all i just feel like i'm putting a little bit better mood and, uh, somebody that goes running. I mean,

we had Zach bitter, uh, who has an all time world record and, um, uh, a hundred mile, you know, running or whatever. I'll call that.

Uh, he's a real beast. And even he was like, yeah, you gotta be a sadistic son of a bitch to run without any music. And then like, but just what does the music do? I mean, it's very simple. It just, I mean, yeah, it's a distraction, I guess, in a way, but it just puts you in a better mood.

You know, it's not like you listen to, you choose music that you don't like, you choose music that you like and that hits you well and that has a good rhythm for you and, and you get into it and it puts you in a better mood. And I think that a lot of these type of psychedelics can just quite simply put you in a better mood when you're in a better mood. The workout is going to feel way better. And I had one day where I ran and I lifted. I mean, that's getting more common. I'm getting more used to that now. But I mean, I ran further than I've ever run before. And like, just it wasn't until the end of the day where I was like, oh shit.

Like, I wonder how that's going to register with my body. Cause that was a lot, but I was also pretty high and I didn't recognize how much like overall volume that I did. And so, yeah, like the next day I woke up and I was like, oh shit. But it wasn't, you know it wasn't it wasn't horrible it actually felt really good wow yeah i think what you just alluded to in terms of kind of getting lost in the workout a little bit um when you're involving some of these compounds it for whatever reason to me at least um particularly at um with ls it, it allows me to kind of get into a flow state a little easier,

whether that be through physical exertion, um, or trying to get creative or think through a problem, particularly with work. Um, I've found at a microdose level that it just gets the creative juices going a little bit more. And I think the way it does that is it kind of gets you out of your own way. And what are we talking about microdosing right now, LSD or SILT7? Typically both. Both. Both at the lower level will have a similar effect, especially on, for me at least, on

my creativity and my ability to get into a flow state. But for me at least, it just helps me look at a problem in a different lens. And I think that's because whatever frustration or lens you're looking at it through, currently when you're not on that substance, there's always bias or mental blocks or ego involved. You think of something and then you think of the negatives of why you can't do those things. So I think these compounds turn down the dial. It's not like they completely dissolve your ego out of microdose.

That's not what it does at all, but it helps turn that volume down and turn the other volume knob of kind of your normal self without your negative ego. And so it kind of just gets you out of your way. You're kind of your own limitation. So I feel like with these, at least it just allows you to kind of think of something that you want to do and then actually execute on it and make it actionable. Can we, before we continue, can we kind of talk about maybe the differences of using LSD and then psilocybin, the different application uses, what they'll do at higher doses, just so as we continue, people know the differences of what we're going on. Yeah, absolutely.

Pardon me. So we'll start with psilocybin. Psilocybin is a classic psychedelic. Similar to LSD, they are very gentle and are considered you know air quotes classic psychedelics similarly with mdma and what these do are they work on different systems of your brain particularly psilocybin and LSD, will work on the serotonergic system of your brain, which is your serotonin. Whereas other drugs like cocaine, other different addictive drugs work on your dopamine receptors. And that is something that becomes highly addictive

so first and foremost I think the really cool call out I guess I call it cool but is that a lot of these psychedelics are non habit-forming they do not have a high addiction rate at all and that is across the board from microdose to macrodose and they work on the same systems. And so psilocybin is first and foremost it's a naturally occurring compound found in mushrooms, different species of mushrooms particularly psilocybin cubensis is a very common one. There are other species of psilocybin mushrooms found in nature throughout the world it depends on climate there's also other species of mushrooms like aminata muscaria which is notoriously known as possibly being involved in the creation of

religion being involved in the creation of christmas, um, with Santa Claus. Um, so there's lots of really cool things about mycology and, and mushrooms that go back through the ages. Um, and it's something that we evolved from. So from a certain perspective, mushrooms are very natural, but,

um, keep in mind that they do have a mind altering effect. So just, you know, religion didn't come from mushrooms. It came from God, man. What you talking about over there? Well, the stone-dape theory as well with, you know, with Joe Rogan and Terrence McKenna and everybody thinking, you know, having theories about mushrooms being involved in language creation and brain formation evolution.

What is this idea of uh mushrooms being connected to religion or or psychedelics being connected to religion um so it goes back to um aminida muscaria um being involved in some of the you know nordic religions um as well as some people believing that um you know maybe it wasn't a burning bush maybe it was a magic mushroom i was just in christianity so um but in the end i think that what what really comes from it is if it was a burning bush um it was possibly um dmt that was coming from the bush um considering it's no bush over there bro it could have been an ayahuasca tree your eye so um but these these compounds resurfaced throughout history um as being

not put on a pedestal but idolized as something very special to cultures. And that's all the way through Aztec cultures, Southern American cultures as well, and really all across the world, even into Siberia and other places with the Ammonita muscaria. So to go back to the original question of how are the two differentiated, I think the biggest thing is psilocybin is much older. LSD is much newer. I think the biggest thing is psilocybin is much older. LSD is much newer. Psilocybin is natural.

For those that want to stay in the air quotes natural world, that is definitely one that is all natural. LSD is synthesized first in the 1940s, and it's made its way throughout society ever since. It was found by accident. And it just so happens to have an extremely small dosage and an extremely high toxicity limit. So it's very, very safe. Did you see the movie? Are you familiar at all with The Glitch in the Matrix? Are you familiar with that movie at all? A glitch in the Matrix? Just the Matrix?

No, it's called The Glitch in the Matrix. A glitch in the matrix? Just the matrix? No, it's called The Glitch in the Matrix. And it's about a guy who, in 1977, started talking about simulation theory. And that all stemmed from, it didn't stem necessarily from psychedelics. He had a tooth pulled. And when he had his tooth pulled, he went home and tried to relax and tried to just like chill and he couldn't and he had like these weird memories that he didn't believe were actually his and anyway the glitch in the matrix

is documentary that's on uh i think it's on hulu um is really really cool because it takes you through all of that. And it talks about it talks about the simulation theory. And they have like Elon Musk on there. And they ask Elon Musk, they're like, they're like, what are the odds, you know, that we're we're innocent in a simulation? And 100 percent Elon Musk is like, there's no odds that we're not in a simulation, basically. And they had Neil deGrasse Tyson and a bunch of other folks on there. I can't wait to check that out. And when they had people talking, they all talked like that.

They're all like characters. It was really interesting. There's a guy, Philip K. Dick, 1970s. He comes worse every moment. Yeah, so he ended up having this trip. Yeah. So he, he ended up having like this trip. And when you hear him talk about his experience and you hear him like vividly share these dreams that he had, he's, he's he's written like book after book kind of based off these things.

And he got into mushrooms and other psychedelics and stuff like that. But you can see him here. He's like, you know, he had this like press conference and it's really like chilling because you're like wow like uh what you know the guy he sounds crazy but when he's talking you're thinking to yourself hmm like maybe there's maybe there's some truth to what this guy's talking about it's really interesting that looks dope i gotta check that out and just to clarify so jimmy hi Hendrix said he died from basically an inhalation of vomit caused by barbiturate intoxication. Barbiturates. Yeah, that's what it was.

What are barbiturates? Like anti-anxiety stuff. Medication? Yeah. Alcohol, probably a drug interaction. Yeah, but it said it got used for recreational use after like during that time so that's what they're pinning it on but um i wanted to ask dude so like what you're saying about um kind of not getting rid of your inhibitions when you take psilocybin and stuff but what's the comeback from that because

i'm thinking like there's i'm definitely one of those people that like will overanalyze things and i won't pull the trigger because i'm thinking about the what-ifs but if i take that and all of a sudden now that what-if voice is not screaming at me anymore but what happens after it's out of my system will the pendulum swing the other way next thing i know i'm like i can't leave the house cause I'm worried about like getting into a car accident or something weird like that. So it's more, I totally get it.

And I think the first suggestion I would take for anybody that's tuning into this for the first time, um, you know, I think first and foremost, starting, you know, analyzing your own mental health first,

asking those questions. Do I have any family history, anything that I should be concerned about doing your own research consulting a physician if you can that in confidence you can talk to um to make recommendations at least make your own um you know decision based off the best information at hand that being said with anything that you're trying new start small yeah you know i know your guys' experience, when you guys were learning about it, that was something that you guys were really curious about was, where do I start and what does what?

And I think starting extremely small and titrating up is always a smart approach as typically with these compounds, once ingestedested you're kind of strapped in for the ride i hear people oftentimes will say i took them and i didn't feel anything and i'm like great and they just kind of look at me confused but yeah but i think it's a good start like okay you ingested them nothing bad happened like we're off to a good start yeah exactly and i think for a lot of people that's the first as you were noting for a lot of people, that's the first, as you were noting, I think that's, Andrew, that's the first step or kind of leap of faith for somebody kind of having some hesitation or wanting to maybe learn more is really just to try that first micro dose and just

to try something that is reliable, of course, and clean, but also a micro dose and just to see how your reaction is and see how you respond to it and to address your other part of your question in regard to how your brain you know will kind of respond and then respond the next day for instance i really think it's you know mark was saying something earlier before the show that i thought was interesting but um it you really what it does is it kind of changes your brain to, you know, I don't, I don't believe in necessarily in this cause I don't know all about it, but it kind of changes your brain to tune into a different frequency

a little bit. And it makes it so that, um, maybe you're operating at a higher frequency for instance. Um, and I think what it does is it really just allows you to tone down the negativity or the limiting factor of your own mind to where even the next day it's not that that's completely gone it's just that the realizations that you might have had or the way that your ego will talk to you because it's not that your ego is gone like I was saying it's just that your ego will respond in a different way and

so maybe that negative voice in your head that's been saying oh you can't do this here's why you don't need to get up this morning to work out or you don't need to do this will actually start by saying hey let's go like you know you want to do this this is going to feel good like it starts to be positive as opposed to negative um and i think that's the main takeaway is you get realizations from this that you can actually take away an action in the real world it's not that you have some type of moment of clarity like an alcoholic and then it's like oh and then you're back to normal and you can't do anything from it it's something that you can have a realization on and then take away the next day and not have to take the compound again to make that action real. So is it sort of like, I don't know, like let's say a kid jumping off of a diving board and they're like so freaked out about it.

And then now all of a sudden they can do it and they look back and like, oh, wait, that actually I didn't die. So I'm OK. And they kind of they can keep that with them forever. Right. Is it kind of like that? It's exactly like that um and i think similarly to drinking alcohol something that everybody can kind of relate to you know when you first start drinking alcohol you don't go get 151 and start drain you know taking handle pulls you you slowly ease into it and i think that should be the approach with with everything of course talking to a health care provider if you can, but taking it slow and realizing that a lot of the taboos that have been in the world are turning around and are being widely accepted by some of the top health care professionals in the world. Yeah.

You know, what you said exactly is kind of what I did. Like, I started off with a microdose on the show, actually. The first time I did a microdose was on, on this show. Um, we had a blast. We had a blast. Our guests didn't know until it was like halfway through. Uh, but then I think the second time I did like two grams and he was at a beach, everything was cool.

So the next time I'm probably going to do like a four or four and a half or something like that. But, um, the cool thing is that like it, like you mentioned, if I did that two grams or whatever, it probably would have, I probably would have been kind of shaky, you know, if I didn't realize what I was getting myself into. So that was pretty dope. But the one thing you said to in terms of like that voice in your head or that limiting, maybe limiting beliefs or whatever, when you do that self work or whatever, when you're on it, um, it really can make a difference for a lot of people. And actually, I was getting a lot of questions on people asking how this can help with people that have depression or anxiety, because I mean, with those individuals, first off, some are on medication, so they need to figure out how can I figure this out? Do I get off my medication before trying this?

Because maybe some health care professionals don't even really believe in it and they want them to stay on their medication. So maybe you can help them out with that. But what have you also seen with people who do have depression, anxiety? How has this helped them out? Yeah, absolutely. Great question. That was something I was hoping we would dive into. So first and foremost, SSRIs and psilocybin or LSD, they all work on the same system. And so that needs to be taken with caution, extreme caution, realistically. You can get serotonin poisoning, essentially, which is, you know, I'm not a medical professional. This is, you know, I'm an ape with this stuff.

I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm an ape with this stuff. I don't know what I'm talking about. But you can have essentially too much recirculating serotonin to where your receptors are kind of just continuously bouncing it around and you're not getting rid of it. So you want to be really, really careful, particularly with SSRIs having that effect. But outside of that, for people that are just experiencing depression depression are not on medications.

Um, there's a lot of literature, um, like I noted earlier from peer reviewed journals, um, that are showing, um, you know, in mice models as well as, um, other animal models that, uh, depression, um, you know, one dose of psilocybin is causing new neural pathways and growth within the frontal lobe. And so what that really means is some of the debilitating and actual physical effects of depression on the brain can not only be fixed but actually reversed. where you're not only just stopping the damage, but you're actually causing it to be fixed and you're regrowing new neurons, neural pathways,

your brain is communicating in different ways. And that's all just from one dose. And the key takeaway is that the effects seen during and shortly after the dose left the body were seen weeks after the dose was administered. So it is a lasting effect. And for a lot of people that have depression, it's been extremely helpful and is actually being considered stronger than or as successful, if not stronger than the leading SSRI in the market right now, which is antidepressant drugs. So the pharmaceutical industry was probably looking into a lot of these things.

But I do think in terms of therapeutic effects that it's groundbreaking. What has the experience been like for yourself? Have you found that some of these things have assisted you along the way, but you still have to do your own work. Interesting. So two things to that. I think first and foremost, if you really have some issues that you need to work through,

therapy is the best. Um, I will always suggest that I personally don't go to therapy, um, as I just don't, don't need that right now in my life. Um, I'm at a good point but the reason i mentioned that without having my own experience is there's a lot of studies um even from the 60s and 70s through psychotherapy and um psychedelic um assisted therapy where you will take a um a psychedelic in in these settings it's typically mMA because MDMA calms down the fear factor within the amygdala to where you can approach your fears and work through them

that's really helpful for veterans who have PTSD particularly MDMA and that is all being approved right now through the veterans the VA MDMA and that is all being approved right now through, through the, um, uh, the veterans, um, uh, the VA,

excuse me. Um, and so a lot of new things with MDMA going for that. But, um, in particular for, for depression, um,

having somebody to sit there and talk through with your problems with the ability to tone down your fears and open up through psychedelics is your best route to having a positive outcome in your life. That being said, if you're not ready for that, from my experience, like you asked, Mark, I will self-medicate and microdose. And what I've seen is I've gotten to a point in my life where I actually don't take them anymore. I don't see a need anymore. Um, I don't feel like I felt two years ago when I started on this journey. Um, and so I have them available at my disposal if I need them. Um, I figured out exactly the dose that works for me and it's actually 50 milligrams, um, which is extremely small. How often? Three to four days a week is what I used to do.

There's a practice from Paul Stemmitz, kind of the godfather of mycology. Shout out to his Fantastic Fungi Netflix movie. But you should take it for three to four days on and then three to four days off. So pick, pick whichever one you want to do, but,

you want to do that for a couple months. And what that will do is over time, um, it will grow new neurons and new neural pathways will form through your brain. So, um, similarly that can happen through a macro dose through taking a lot, um,

for one event, a single event, like three, four or five grams. But if you don't want to do that because that's just not for you, you can utilize the micro dose to still get the same positive mental effects. That was a question. Actually, a lot of people were curious exactly how do I micro dose or how much do I micro dose? And I'm curious about this. Um, if someone's like 120 pounds or someone's like 240 or whatever, we've noticed that things can hit differently if you weigh more.

So how do people like calculate that? Definitely can. You know, I mean, you really can't. Everybody's going to have their own system and their own way to metabolize these compounds. And, you know, I really don't know from experience even enough with people. I just know that it affects everybody differently. So I try to, I think it's important. um form if you're using mushrooms so that it's ground up into a capsule so that you can you can know that you're getting a an equal dose depending on what um part of the mushroom you're

eating and um from there you really want to start at an equal unit of measure so something pretty small like 100 milligrams and you want to start with that and if you're like okay i don't feel anything take one more you can keep going up like that. How long does it take to hit too? For mushrooms, it's going to take about 45 to 90 minutes. By 90 minutes, they're typically fully digested and peaking in your bloodstream. Some people will start to feel them a little earlier, but 90 minutes is usually the window of time that you want to wait for full effect. There you go. There you go. There you go. Is there different potency though? a little earlier, but 90 minutes is usually the window of time that you want to wait for full effect. Yeah.

There you go. There you go. Is there different potency though? Like, like, I mean, this won't be shown on camera, but like this guy here versus like something that's capsulated. So, um, it's interesting. There's, there's different ways of cultivation. Um, and you know, there's, there's to not go off the deep end here

if you have a good source that's really what it's all about is making sure that you have a safe way of getting acquiring these substances until they're legalized for therapeutic use hopefully you basically

will not have to worry about it with things like that. But typically, if you have any concerns grinding them, what that will do, and I recommend it with everything, really, just because it's easier to ingest and it breaks down a little faster. And when you grind mushrooms down, you're helping your body pre-digest them. Because of the chitin within, or chitin, or however you want to pronounce it, in the cell walls of the plant material, that's kind of what will give you some stomach issues. So that's why grinding them down is helpful to give your body that advantage. And so when you grind them for the dosage, what it helps do is just homogenize everything.

Grind them down with my teeth. Yep. Stay here. For the cow. Yeah, I was going was gonna ask how would you just burp it back up and see it a little later they are a little rough uh to chew to even chew on yeah there are a few different methods of of consumption um i don't know if you guys want me to yeah let's get into it so um you, you can grind them down like a cow,

like Mark does. Um, you can throw them on any food and eat. Of course. Um, they need to be crack or dry. That's a recommendation. If you ever,

um, get any of these from anybody and they're moist, give them back. You need to be crack or dry. Any pressure, they should explode in your hand, um, and disintegrate into dust basically. Um, and so, or dry. Any pressure, they should explode in your hand and disintegrate into dust, basically.

Or just crack. And from there, you can encapsulate them. You can eat them raw. Or you can put them into a tea. And for anybody out there that has gastrointestinal issues from these types of compounds um i would highly recommend a tea um and you just make it as any typical tea boil your water take it off i ground some up the other day and threw it in some coffee it's great there you go exactly have some coffee it's in right now um and yeah you can you can uh put it into a tea you steep them for about 30 minutes 15 to 30 minutes

um when the water is still warm not boiling and uh remove them and you'll have magic water that will um hit your system with in about 30 to 45 minutes a lot faster and as such you will hit your peak um in your blood system and then come down faster as well. So your overall experience will be more like four hours rather than eight. But it will also be a little bit more of a faster ride to the top. Question now. So two people so far, Michaela Peterson and Chris, who we know here, Boar, they've both mentioned how they use lemon. So what does lemon do to the whole process?

Yeah. So there's capsules. There's whole fruit form, meaning just eating the whole mushroom. It's called fruit. That's the fruiting body. So that's what it's officially called. So you can do whole fruit. You can do capsules.

You can do a tea. You can also do a lemon tech, which is exactly what you just said, which is soaking your preferably ground mushrooms. They don't have to be, but it's always better for surface area. You put that into a glass with some orange pure, or excuse me, pure lemon juice over it, fresh squeezed or the concentrate. And you let it sit there for about 15 minutes. And what that does is the citric acid breaks down the cell walls. And again again just like

grinding helps your body digest that material and it frees up um psilocin um um and so that it helps you essentially frees up psilocybin or psilocin they're two different ones but i'm not i can't i don't know exactly which one it frees up particularly but um it makes it more freely available so when you digest it it hits faster yeah so it can be an extremely fast um and sometimes uncomfortable rise to the top but it uh is a way to bypass all the gastro issues and make more um out of your supply because it can be a little bit more it can seem more potent because it affects you faster. I've heard you speak about the environment. I've heard a lot of people talk about the setting. You may want to have a particular setting when you're going to explore taking some of these psychedelics.

And then in addition to that, also what are people trying to get from them? people, you know, trying to get from them. I think it's important that they ask that question and also have maybe, uh, some realistic expectations that these things aren't going to like, just not going to do everything for you, you know? And so, um, what do you usually recommend in terms of like environment or, you know, when someone should maybe consider a time to take these things? Yeah, definitely. Um, it's called set and setting like you alluded to, and it's hypercritical to really any psychedelic that you're going to take. I think the biggest thing that we can learn from a lot of earlier generations in the 60s is these compounds are really not to be used in a super social setting like Woodstock or

like a crazy music festival. I get it when you're young, that might be appealing, but it's just not the way that these compounds should be used. They open up, the way to look at it is, and the way that someone once described it to me is, you're making yourself vulnerable.

With these compounds, you're unlocking a door in your mind or in your soul, whichever one you want to say or both, that allows things to come in and influence you while you're under the influence. And it's really important to make sure that you're in a safe setting, that you have intention, that you go into it with some type of intention that you want to work through or analyze about

yourself or about your life. And you want to be in an environment or a setting that is a safe first and foremost, be something that is comfortable for you that you can have an area where you can go back to if you get to a point during your experience that is uncomfortable, like a bedroom, some type of familiar space where you can just be alone. And I think it's important to, to also, um, have somebody that you know and trust know what you're doing so that if anything happens, they can check on you and know what's going on. But if all those things are in place, I would really recommend doing it for the first times at your home by yourself with maybe somebody that knows that you're doing it to check in on you. Maybe somebody that knows that you're doing it to check in on you.

If not, start extremely low dose. Do it by yourself. Realistically, just have some music on. And a lot of the magic will happen with psilocybin when you close your eyes, especially at the beginning. So it's nice to kind of meditate and just be with your thoughts and really set that intention as you go into your experience because that's that's really going to dictate what you get out of it and just like you said they're not going to do the job for you they're going to set the stage but you still got to put in the work like you still have to know what you want to get done what about people who have because there have been people who have like they've had bad trips now they're

scared of it right what would your suggestion be to those individuals of now, like they're quite literally fearful and if they're going to their next experience, now they're going into it with anxiety, right? What would your, what would your advice to them be? Yeah. So the, you know, I've, I've had to learn what, you know, what different experiences add up to. And what I mean by that is I don't consider anything a bad trip. Um, and the reason I say that, I know everybody, you know, everybody has different experiences, but the reason I say it is all an opportunity to learn. There's something that happened there during your experience that threw you off your center. Maybe that was where you were. Maybe that was the people that were around you.

Maybe that was some type of thought that came into your mind that you decided that you didn't want to deal with and couldn't ignore. And it made you kind of lose your vibe that you were in. Um, a lot of those things revolve around set and setting. So when typically when people have, um, a bad trip, it can go back to kind of, Hey, where were you? What were you doing? What was your intention? Were you just taking these to take them?

You know, you're bored and you just decided, Hey, I'm going to have some fun and take a bunch of these. And then something kind of resurfaced that you didn't really want to work on, but they brought about to the forefront of your mind that can sometimes get people uncomfortable. But, um, yeah, I i think again it's having the intention as you go into it what do i want to do these things are not toys they're not just for fun they are tools that make you extremely vulnerable and can unlock like i said different doors in your mind that can bring in things that you might not have wanted to if you don't have the set and

setting you really need to know what you want to work through and be careful with these things if you're taking them in macro level doses where you're having a change in an overall change in your your mind rather than a micro dose micro doses are a lot safer yeah um and don't have to be as involved with set and setting they can be taken more as a multivitamin that you don't even feel i like that yeah um so and so they're set and setting and then if you are trying to work through something i'd imagine trying to create like an itinerary and a whole checklist about things you want to try to accomplish during your trip is probably a bad move but what if there is something that you do want to work on like how do you actually go about trying to accomplish that or trying to work through that do you just kind of like meditate type of thing or do you actually go about trying to accomplish that or trying to work through that?

Do you just kind of like meditate type of thing or do you just, yeah, what do you do? So that's, it's kind of the biggest thing is you kind of need to surrender. And I know from my experience, just being able to kind of, you know, I know Mark was speaking on this before the show a little bit, but you kind of need to just listen. And I know that I've probably told you guys early on, you guys kind of like, this guy's crazy, what he's talking about. But you listen to the mushrooms or you listen to yourself talk to yourself in your head because you're going to be there with yourself the whole time. But you're going to slowly start to talk to yourself differently and you're going to want to bring up things. But I think having intention, writing something down, keeping it extremely broad, and trying to work through it from different angles,

and that's the key is if you keep it broad and try not to be super specific, you're going to start to see your issue from different angles during the experience. And that's kind of the beauty of it, is it opens up different lenses for you to view life through or view your problems or your issues or whatever you're trying to move through. And then like, so how often can you take some of these bigger dosages and like how frequent? Cause I'm like, Hey, I want to go work on, you know, my creativity.

Like today I want to go work on my depressed, like, you know what I mean? Like there's probably some, a bunch of things that we all want to work on but like we can't do them like every day i'm also is it easy to build a tolerance on top of that like can someone build a might have built it up quick this man looked at mark like yeah yeah um so you know just like any any system the body, there's feedback systems that are going to cause, if you're taking something that elevates a certain level, there's a down regulation somewhere down the line. So that's exactly what happens with these compounds in these same systems. So they're special crossed um the two compounds psilocybin and lsd are actually have cross tolerances so what that means is it doesn't

matter which one you take you're going to have a high tolerance as you take them both because they work on the same systems like you said exactly yep so if you just had a weekend where you just took some lsd and you know a couple days later i don't know why you would want to but if you just had a weekend where you just took some LSD and, you know, a couple of days later, I don't know why you would want to, but if you did, you want to take a bunch of mushrooms, you would more than likely need to take more to get the same experience. And that experience probably won't have that same like little note of has to do with the amount of time that you wait between your experiences. And I think that should be taken across the board for whichever one you're experimenting with or learning about. But I think it's, you know, you should probably stick to one when you're really trying to learn about its actual overall effects that, you know, there's no other variables going on like cross tolerance or things, but you can take mushrooms, um,

in a macro level dose weekly, really, if you wanted to, um, like once a week, but your effects won't be the best. I would, I would really say for the true magic to come out once a month is really where you want to be. You should let

yourself reset. And really the other thing is it's not just the experience, it's incorporating these things into your life. We don't want to just go from experience to experience and not have integration. It's very important to have these experiences and then give yourself time to integrate

what came to you. Because if not, you could get on a path where you could lose yourself a little bit where you're having all these realizations and you don't really know where the true you is anymore, you know? And that's the biggest thing is take these things with caution and take your time, learn about them and take your experiences and, and try to really integrate them into your life. Um, if you're taking macro level doses, again, if you're taking micro level doses, you won't have those experiences, but you'll have positive effects on your overall mental health in

the longterm, like being happier, more creative, less stressed, but you're not going to have psychoactive effects that are going to change your outlook on life so actually that makes me curious too because the micro doses over time like you mentioned they can have uh an effect on your brain chemistry that a macro level dose would happen one at one time so i'm curious um if you do micro dose for a long period of time that wouldn't have the same effects as like if you did one heroic dose? I mean, I know you wouldn't have the same psychoactive effects when you microdose, but over time, as far as the changes that happen, it wouldn't be similar? So again, I'm not a doctor and I don't know if there's been enough studies really to show the long-term effects and how long these effects last post-macro dose. Do they last years at the same levels of whatever they're looking for or does it go down? that go down, I don't know, but I think what Paul Stemmets was able to find through his studies is that microdosing over time has a similar effect as a macrodose, but you don't have to experience the trip or all of that type of stuff if you don't have time for it. And what it can

also do is if you do want to do a trip dose, it can act as a, excuse me, a bridge. Kind of like in supplements, it can act as a bridge to your next cycle or to your next experience. And so it can kind of help you maintain that, whatever it is you got out of it, it can help you maintain that until your next experience. And then do you have to, i don't kind of take your baby steps i know you recommended um micro dosing but um like most dudes i heard about dmt through joe rogan and it's like oh my god that sounds amazing have you done dmt yeah and it's like uh okay if me who has never taken like a big dose of even just psilocybin mushrooms like if i take dmt like i'm pretty sure probably i don't

know have some negative effects on me but do you have to kind of build your way to get up to something like that or i mean i guess it'd just probably be a bad idea i'm assuming well again i think all these are tools um and so i really think it's just where you're at but i definitely would recommend you know similar to the gym i don't think you're going to go in and start to try to deadlift 500 or squat 500 if you've never squatted before. I think you're going to try to do some leg extensions, maybe some leg press or something like that before you get under the squat bar. before you get under the squat bar, but, um, you should again, approach these things with caution and start with something that has, um, a controllable experience, um, and start small dose, low dose. Um, DMT is something that, um, is for, I think really for, for someone who's either looking

for something in particular that has a lot of education about that compound or is really open to having a completely alien-like, life-changing experience. Personally, I myself, I'm just not at a point in my life to try that. I've had the ability multiple times, but I just choose not to because I just have a respect for it and I'm just not ready for it. but I just choose not to because I just have a respect for it and I'm just not ready for it. Um, and when I'm at a point in my life, maybe, you know,

my fifties or something, I might look back into that. But, um, I think there's a lot of stuff that can be learned about yourself before even having to tap into a substance like that. And a substance like that is typically sometimes so foreign and so alien like that it's hard to integrate that stuff back into life um but it's

definitely possible and it definitely changes people um both in a positive and negative way i ain't trying to scare nobody um but a friend of mine a friend of mine distant dmt and told me about the experience it was it was when she was younger apparently but she said she saw a horned goat and it was sitting like this and it was going like if she wasn't scared of it though she wasn't scared of the goat at all like it but it was a horned goat standing and going like this and you know i think there's one thing though that you mentioned one thing that's super important about all this and um that kind of came from what andrew said was that you actually have to

surrender to this stuff. Cause I remember the first time I ever, first time I ever smoked weed, I was like 22 or 23 years old and I was super scared because of what, like, I mean, you know, there's a family history of something that could go wrong.

So I went into that very anxious, very scared. And I had a horrible experience, right? Because I didn't even know i was getting myself into was fucking scary but every other time since since i knew what i was getting myself into and since i was like okay well i'm gonna feel some type of way it's gonna happen it's not a big deal everything's been great as since i just like surrendered so there is really

something to that like not going into it scared and anxious, because if you're already scared and anxious, chances are is that you might not feel that well when you're feeling everything that's going on. And the other thing, um, just to build on that is when you're, when you're actually in the experience and, and under the influence of these compounds, when you get a feeling of anxiety of, should I, Oh my gosh, something's coming. Should I go down? Should I,

should I fight this feeling? Don't fight it. Don't just let go. Just, just go with it. Um, there's not going to be anything that you can't handle. It's still your mind,

you know, it's, it's your world that it's reflecting back at you still just in a different lens. So, um, it's really a lot of people just say, just, you know, um, it's really, a lot of people just say, just, you know,

go with it. And also don't be on your phone. That's what she told me. You're like, and Seema put your phone somewhere where you won't see it. Yeah. You know, phones will typically ruin your,

your experience. And, and, um, again, this is something that needs to be experienced alone and by yourself. It's a, this is a,

this is a, just like mark kind of said at the beginning of this as the comparison of alcohol and psychedelics these are much more of an inward personal experience than a outward hey i'm here to be social and fun and party with you no this is a party with yourself in your own mind that no one else knows what's going on but you so and you're the only person invited that's the real trick you can't really have a party with yourself can't have a party of one too much uh war going on but you so and you're the only person invited that's the real trick you can't really have a party with yourself you can't have a party of one too much uh war going on too many too much conflict of uh should i eat this should i eat that type of shit going on in your uh in your

head all the time you said you don't really mess around with uh some of these psychedelics anymore um what do you mess around with do you mess around with like supplements and we talked briefly a little bit about like lion's mane and i know andrew um has a boner for uh nootropics and things for that shit a massive boner i i should have i should have he has a huge penis i have some right here so yeah yeah uh, do you mess around with some of those things? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, um, typically my, my, uh, my vice, I suppose in life is cannabis. Um, and for me, it, it allows me to kind of ground myself without having to get too irritable and, um, it just makes me a nicer person and a better dad and better husband.

So, um, again, there's ways that that needs to be used and other ways in life that that can mess you up. But, um, I think it's a great, great option for people,

especially when they're looking for something outside of alcohol, like preferably psychedelics and a little cannabis would, but I think do the world a lot of good in the long run. But for me in terms of just normal supplements, you know, I'm really into the mushroom supplements, particularly into lion's mane, like you mentioned, reishi for longevity, as well as turkey tails for immunity. Wait, turkey tails? Turkey tail mushrooms.

It should be noted you should really get them from fruiting bodies. If you get them in capsules, make sure they're not from myceliated grain. That being said, turkey tails have a really beneficial effect on immune response. They have a lot of beta-glucans in it, other interesting compounds that are only found within mushrooms. Um,

and they've shown a lot of success, especially in combination with chemotherapy to be extremely synergistic with breast cancer, um, as well as other types of

cancer. So, um, turkey tails are really good, especially around this time with COVID. Every time you say turkey

tails, man, it's like, I just want time with COVID. Every time you say turkey tails, man, it's like, I just want to giggle. Oh, wow. Turkey tails. Yep.

They grow on wood. It's a wood loving, um, mushroom and, uh, extremely good for boosting immune response, um, overall.

And, uh, yeah. Um, ratios are also a great one for for longevity um antioxidants things like that turkey tail or excuse me lion's mane are great for um memory focus so what i think is really interesting is is the future of of using psilocybin in conjunction with some of these other compounds like lion's mane um like ginkgo balboa for instance or just ginkgo um and a couple other compounds i think together

would stack really well for kind of like a a nootropic type of stack um what have you noticed because you you capsuled those together before right so what have you noticed how do they at least do you feel? And what have people that have reported back to you, what do they feel when they mix all of these together? have experienced it rather not that i've given them to but um that have experienced it have said that they have trouble sleeping and that if they take it too late in the day it's like it fires them up like it kind of wakes up their brain they can't they can't really shut it down at night so i think it just goes back to the overall effect of psilocybin on the brain interconnecting the different parts of the brain um there's an interesting slide on google with the um a human brain on psychedelics getting a brain scan versus a sober brain and it's really cool to see the inner workings of what happens especially on mushrooms to where different parts of your your brain start to communicate with each other along different

neural pathways that they were not communicating with before. And so through your life, what happens is as you age, you use less and less of your brain in terms of your neural pathways. So you typically use the same neural pathways over and over as you age. And so using these compounds can help your brain use kind of the back roads in your mind and offer different ways of connecting, which can bring about creativity, increases in visual acuity because you're seeing things differently.

People in jujitsu have a lot of experience with psilocybin and reaction times, all sorts of different things. I think the really cool thing is TBI with fighters and veterans. I think that's going to be the next new wave of the first therapeutic uses of FDA approved psilocybin will be through people who have PTSD, traumatic brain injury, where their brain actually is injured and they need like CT, like with the concussion stuff in nfl um that you know psilocybin can help

regrow and repair some of those damaged neural networks wow um when you mentioned reaction time as far as like jujitsu and stuff so what do you mean increased reaction time um so there's been shown to have an increase in visual acuity, which is allowing you to register things through, for instance, your peripherals and allowing you to react. So you might see it, but have a slow reaction time, whereas with the increase in visual acuity, you'll see it and immediately you're going to react to it. Yeah. I see what you mean in terms of getting into flow states easier, too. going to react to it yeah i see what you mean in terms of like getting into flow states easier too because like when i do jujitsu like sometimes when i use something like kratom beforehand i can get there faster i can get there without it but i can get there faster with that aid but that's that's

really awesome and then this has no i i know nothing about the brain but it kind of makes sense like if if there are certain parts of the brain that is starting to being used right it's like if you don't use them as much maybe they atrophy and maybe this will like help you actually start thinking in different ways because i mean i know that like it has a i mean it's allowed me i guess to be able to think a little bit more creatively about things that i haven't thought about before and that's one thing've noticed. That's a pretty big deal for me. Absolutely. I mean, I can't exactly speak to some of the current studies, but I know that it's being looked closely at for Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's, possible treatments for all of

those age-related and mental illnesses. And I think a lot of people are going to benefit from it. And, um, I think a lot of people are going to benefit from it. Um, it's just, time's going to tell with, with the long-term studies in regard to what we see through the data over time. Yeah. The way I always felt and kind of like why I've always wanted to experiment with it was it's sort of like, um, you know, taking psilocybin will like kind of stretch my brain out to reach different levels that it can't do it naturally or at least i have a hard time getting there naturally and doing that might help but in regards to those alzheimer's studies and stuff are they trying it as a preventative or is it to try to like kind of reverse some of that i mean i they're what they're trying to do is just understand how it affects it and i think you know there's the amyloid plaques and other things that are involved in that process, obviously.

But there's also, you know, a decrease in just overall brain function. And I think with some of these, they're trying to understand, you know, if we were to use this, you know, is that going to extend the overall lifespan? It's not necessarily going to cure the disease, but could it slow the progression? Could it enable, you know, some of those memories to remain, maybe not come back, but slow some of that progression? So again, it's super early with a lot of those, a lot of those things. And it's tough to study those illnesses because a lot of it can only be shown through autopsy of the brain you know so um but maybe it's just keeping it active because that part of the brain is like working i know there's some good evidence of uh things like

uh ping pong or sports that are similar to that are supposed to be really, really healthy for your brain. Even just like even putting together like a puzzle, like it's supposed to be really healthy for your brain and healthy for dementia and things like that. Maybe, you know, psychedelics maybe are maybe working on a similar part of the brain or something like that. Keep it active. I really think the future is going to be multivitamins.

I think this will be included psilocybin in particular, you know, LSD is, is something on its own, but, um, I think both will be available for therapeutic use, but in particular,

I think both of these compounds are going to be available in a, in a, in a concentration that's so low that you won't, um, feel it. You won't have any difference in your day-to-day outside of, hmm, I reacted a little bit more positively to that, or, oh, wow, that didn't get me as pissed off as I thought it would, or, oh,

I don't really crave a drink right now. It's 5 o'clock, and I think I'm okay. Kind of like taking vitamins. Yeah, you don't necessarily feel them at all. Exactly. I can't taking vitamins. Yeah. Exactly. You don't necessarily feel them at all. Exactly. I can't wait for those studies. The, um,

you know, Alzheimer's and dementia runs through my mom's family. So it's like the worst thing ever. But, um, that's for like, you know, older people.

Um, I'm sure there's some young people listening. So what is your, um, I don't know, I guess, uh, thoughts on younger people today.

I'm talking like teenagers even about taking psychedelics yeah so i i mean i'm a firm believer that your brain doesn't stop developing until your mid-20s yeah um and again when those brain systems are coming online um you know even speaking to hormones um there's a lot of things that are going on that you want to let solidify and kind of figure themselves out. Um, and I think involving these compounds at such a developmental part of your life, um, with such little real world experience could make it so that you could take some of these experiences and not implement them or integrate them very well into your life because you're young and immature and naive. And so I think, you know, waiting until you're, um, an adult, your brain is fully developed. Um, and you're able to really take some of these things that you're going to experience and actually integrate

them in your life, not still living at your parents' house in high school where you're, you know, you, you can't do that necessarily. You're not living your own life yet. You still got a lot of stuff to get done. So it's kind of my piece on, I don't advise anyone, um, before their brain is finished developing to, to really dabble in any of these at all, not even cannabis. before their brain is finished developing to, to really dabble in any of these at all, not even cannabis. Um,

and so, yeah, it's kind of all, yeah. Stand firm on that. And then, so you're still, um, micro dosing and stuff.

And you said you had a family. Um, I'll just retell it here, but I told you off air and I told it on her before, but like I took a small dose of like THC capsules. And, uh, this was when my wife was still pregnant and she's like,

what if I went into labor right now? And I started panicking like, Oh shit, you're right. Cause like I started giggling for no fucking reason. And I'm like, Hey, I'm sorry.

Like I took this or whatever. So, you know, like that's also been one of the hurdles for me is like, I have a seven, seven month old son now. And like, again,

this, I mean, you can probably already tell like i always am worried about oh what if you know like also what if it's pretty interesting on netflix yeah yeah that's pretty cool no no that's on disney plus sorry same thing keep doing that because i may anyways sorry uh but how do you go about like just making sure that you know you're never in a compromised position where like if something happens with your family like yeah you know i just wouldn't would hate for something to happen and then for them to point to me and be like it's because he's on psilocybin

it's like that's why the the toaster caught on fire now we have to replace you know all the outlets in the house whatever it may be let me ask you this then um you'll have a beer or you know, all the outlets in the house, whatever it may be. Let me ask you this then. Um, you'll have a beer or, you know, okay. Maybe not wrong where I'm personally. We're in a gym. I mean,

but a lot of people can relate to having a beer, right? One drink maybe. Um, and you're still around your family. You're, you're very in control. Um,

again, a lot of all of the stuff that I'm speaking about in terms of taking it, you know, every day is a micro dose,, not a macrodose. And for being around family, from what I've experienced, I have a son under three years old as well, so young. Yeah, don't get blasted. Yeah, no reason to do any of that. Your wife will not enjoy it, you checked out um when that's not approved by

her unless you plan it yeah yeah definitely plan those but for the for the family um actually a positive note um it makes parenting better yeah yeah it makes it makes some of the tough times more understanding you have more compassion more empathy um can see um more patience you don't get as riled up or you know as as upset sometimes and it's important to change some of those perspective that you might have it like these things um you know like why do we work out you know we work out because it does um you know a bunch of different stuff to our brain that's kind of hard to explain right and maybe you know through taking bunch of different stuff to our brain. That's kind of hard to explain. Right.

And maybe, you know, through taking some of these things, maybe it, it kind of is a shortcut to, uh, to some of that. I dig that.

Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. But only, you know, along with what you said there, man, you mentioned like having one beer.

Um, uh, it's so normal for people to just go out and get fucking shit based. Right. And then just take a macro dose of alcohol wake up the next morning with the hangover actually probably feel like shit for the next two days because they drink too much alcohol and go do that the next weekend again because it's alcohol and it's normal right whereas like when you think about doing a dose of mushrooms something that's

gonna like make you think a little not a little bit it's gonna it could do a lot right um it's like oh god mushrooms no you know what i mean but alcohol is like legitimate poison yeah legitimate poison yeah and you'll crave it and the other thing is after after a large experience it's it's pretty entered um energy consuming uh mentally wise like you don't just once it's over you're not like all right let's dive back in i'm ready for round two like my alcohol right uh with with psychedelics yeah it's it's very exhausting the experience and it can be um you know again you want to give time to integrate and it's what i guess where i'm going with this is you don't crave them the next day and you you do feel um like okay how do i how do i take all this and integrate it to my life but you're not hung over yeah and you're not you're

like okay that was really fun i want to do that again tonight those feelings just don't come about because it doesn't operate on your dopamine it operates on your serotonin. And that's just a different experience. So then can it mess with your serotonin levels the next day? So clearly if you take high levels, there is a feedback loop that your body is going to have to balance out. And the higher dose you take, the longer that compound is going to take to half-life out of your system because it's just a higher initial dosage. So that's just a higher initial dosage. So that's just with everything. But with psilocybin in smaller doses, especially micro-dose, in some smaller doses like one gram or so, maybe two gram, smaller doses like one gram or so maybe two gram um they're actually shown to um upregulate receptor sites of serotonin receptor sites um some in some cases and alternatively um can be used in place of some of the antidepressants that act on those same receptors

um which is really interesting but typically you don't have a hangover effect unless you're taking a very, very large amount, which in those cases I would recommend taking some 5-HTP the next day, which is going to help increase your natural serotonin release and just get some good sleep and get some good meals and do a little exercise and you'll be fine. But it's nothing nothing comparative to a hangover in it by any means. And can you take like some 5-HTP right before like or maybe even during to help kind of like a preventative type of dose or something? Again, not a doctor or health professional, but I just I always like to keep it simple and not complicate things, whether it's stacking stuff or supplements or whatever.

I try to make sure I know the full effect from that compound first. I like that. I just don't want to mix anything that's affecting similar systems in the brain, considering how strong psilocybin is, even at very small dosages. Even if you don't feel it, it's still potent enough to activate your brain internally where i just don't want to cause some type of you know over index of serotonin or something like that from both having some type of interaction so i try to just keep it on on the psilocybin and leave it alone until the next day i can actually attest to like the feel like i think i did like what 2.2 grams or whatever um the last time when i was on

the beach and the next morning i was like wow i feel normal i don't feel like tired my stomach doesn't hurt you know nothing feels bad everything just feels normal the whole day was great was there any kind of like i i'm only asking because i I just know with like edibles and I know it's totally different. But like with anything like that, cannabis related, the following day I would have like terrible brain fog. Really? Did you experience anything like that after? No. No, that's sick.

That makes me happy. But you experienced brain fog after like smoking? Well, not smoking, just edibles is fine. Edibles is. I cannot have them but like no like i couldn't put like sentences together the next day like i just couldn't find words like they were just fucking gone i was like oh my god i'm that you know burnout that everyone made fun of in high school right now like it was just it was it sucked i did not like it yeah but no i could just be super sensitive and i needed you seem to be super sensitive to like a

lot of stuff like the you know when you took uh when you took a potion and you were just like yeah right so that's why i take capsules yeah so yeah so i'll take a little bit of this guy right here take a wee wee little bit yeah tiny bit a little bit at a time baby steps uh have you gotten into like uh things, you know, we mentioned MDMA, we mentioned mushrooms, we mentioned LSD, what about acid? Ketamine. Yeah. What about some other substances like that? Yeah. I mean,

each of those have, that you were just mentioning, you know, ket mean, each of, each of those have that you were just mentioning, you know, ketamine, um, DMT, um, ayahuasca, um,

MDMA. They all have their, their uses. Um, MDMA, very gentle, classic. Um,

but a lot of people do it like super often use it as a party drug, obviously. So, yep. And it's typically mixed with other compounds sometimes like methamphetamine um to kind of make it last longer things like that but true mdma is extremely gentle extraordinarily safe cool um but it does have a effect the next day where you feel kind of not so good um and that's because it affects more systems than just the serotonin receptor.

But what it really does is it calms down your fear response in your amygdala, so you're able to work through trauma. And so MDMA is what is being used among all else right now, and it's the first one that's going to get FDA approval for traumatic brain injury, for PTSD, for people at end of life treatment that, you know, need to be okay with passing on, um, with their situation. So it's, it's also going to be probably used in, in counseling, marital counseling, um, all sorts of, of things, child abuse. It just helps you cope with or move, not even cope, it helps you move past and become accepting to some of your traumas.

Ayahuasca, I have no experience with. It can make you pretty sick long experience um it's essentially the um more like edible version of dmt um to where it has to be able to be digested by your your body um and broken down to where there's an maoi inhibitor attached to it to slow the break or to allow the breakdown of it but also slows the breakdown of it yeah um also slows the breakdown of it. Yeah. Um, so you have like a 10, 11, 12, 20 hour experience from it. Um, DMT is much quicker.

I don't have any experience with it either cause I'm not ready. Um, but DMT and ayahuasca are very similar. Um, and then ketamine, um, I don't have any experience with it either. Um, it can be extremely addictive to some people that like it that being said it has been approved in a therapeutic setting for depression and it does have extremely good results for people that are having

I guess I could call it drug resistant depression where depression is just not going away after different ways of treating it so there is a lot of success in that and you can go ahead and go into a ketamine clinic and, and experience that if you're having those issues. But, um, I don't, it's not, uh, it's not a one-time fix. It's something that you're going to probably continue to have to go back to ketamine. Yeah. But again, I, you know, me personally, I'm, I'm really just about self discovery. Um, the lessons and things that I've learned about myself through just mushrooms and LSD have kind of been enough for me. Um, which is interesting because I initially thought like,

I want to try everything and I want to try it all. And sure, you know, one day, but my attitude has changed since I've, my respect for these, these compounds have grown to where I'm not in any rush and I get it. If, if it's, if it's the right time and I'm ready, I'll know it and I'll seek it out and, and, and do it. I'll know it and I'll seek it out and do it but it's really nice to know that like okay it's a mind changing drug and I don't want it at all you know I have no desire for it so it's kind of nice. Yeah something like DMT it just sounds like a little too you know my brother was telling me about it I'm like eh I'm okay I don't feel like I kind of need it at the

moment it's really interesting though how people have been reporting seeing similar things that's just something that is is very interesting like a lot of people that have done dmt or whatever they're like there's common reports of seeing a similar thing or yeah or and there's this oh my gosh we're in a simulation i i wish it looked a lot like that trailer that we watched where like people will report kind of something like that where it's like people are like in like they look like they're all made out of glass almost it's fucking wild who knows but i heard of um there was some there's some guy who was i think he was helping somebody go through a trip right he's somebody who does this and, um, they were having problems.

So then he took some and then he literally entered their trip. Yeah, it was, um, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. I'm the one that told you. Oh, there we go. Good. So it was something I heard on Rogan. I don't know if he was cause Terrence McKenna is still alive, right?

No. Okay. So maybe it was Terence mckenna um he gave somebody a i think it was ketamine and then put them in an isolation tank and then he heard that they were having a hard time so he dosed himself jumped in a separate like pod on ketamine and then yeah and then i'm pretty sure it was ketamine it was something it definitely wasn't like a deprivation tank sounds like a disaster so i recommend that he ended up meeting up with him in this trip world and he helped guide him through it again i could have butchered the names but it's fucking crazy yeah sound like uh soul yeah soul was good yeah yeah it does sound

like soul but yeah that's astral it and you're just sitting there reading it from the internet i'll see if i can find it before you know we go off air but yeah it was some crazy shit like that where um obviously they reported the same experience because they literally like he walked him through it and was like you're gonna be fine like i'm here with you when they got out of the uh pods or whatever he's like holy holy shit, like, we did meet up. Like, that's crazy. Yeah, with DMT, there's this weird, there's this, there's a lot of people that say, like you just said, they have a similar experience. And some people think that that might be, you know, you're being able to tap into the human collective unconscious or intelligence of past experiences and really

what you're experiencing through the trip is everybody else's trip that's ever done it before and you're integrating with that and the plan in that plane or dimension or things like that there's lots of ways that people um try to understand their dmt experience but the biggest takeaway is it's very impactful and it's very powerful. It's the mother of all at the mother, but it's, it's, it's,

it's in pretty much every compound. You can synthesize DMT out of grass if you wanted to. Um, you know, it's what's released when you pass onto the next realm, um, to help allow yourself to accept that you're passing. Um,

and so it's, it's something that you're passing. Um, and so it's, it's something that your body recognizes. And what's really interesting is your tolerance goes down in 30 minutes. So you can take it, tolerance goes up immediately where you couldn't do it, you know, back to back, but then about 30 to 45 minutes later, you can do another experience and have the same, same level of experience. So it's just a wild compound but um it does have life-changing um effects or experiences that you know to each your own but it's it's very powerful i heard like and like the person that people i know have done dmt like they have pens

like legit where you could take a hit off a pen and like it's like what yeah the pens i've i've been told don't from my experience everybody i've talked to that i've tried both they don't really get you all the way there okay and i get you like to the um to the threshold but they don't punch you through to the other side and some people say that's like yeah they get you to the to the white light in the wormhole, but they don't let you through. I was going to, I want to know about this. And I also want to say this too. Like I've done, obviously we've done shrooms, but I feel no dependence to it.

So I just want to like also let people know because whenever I try anything, I'm just like, I don't want to like this too much. Like it's like if I'm just like, if I'm craving it, then I'm like, ooh, there's a problem. And I don't feel that way at all with mushrooms and it's been super beneficial um but we've been talking a lot about mushrooms but we really haven't talked about like lsd and how someone enters that realm if they want to and maybe why they would so can we talk about that 100 yeah um mark i feel like that's your flavor of the day. Yeah. I do enjoy it. I don't know what else I can say, but I do.

I do enjoy it. Yeah. So, um, yeah, so LSD, um, really interesting compound,

um, was found by accident, um, 1940s, um, by Mr. Hoffman. And, you know, it's a extremely gentle compound,

very similar to psilocybin on the same systems that it hits on. So if you don't love mushrooms or like, I don't know, man, this kind of makes me like not want to talk to people or a little too like antisocial, try LSD. I think it might be the one for you then. Cause it kind of has kind of like the other side of the pie almost in a way like it, it,

uh, is very safe. Um, it's, uh, the dosage that you need is very minimal, very small. Um,

and the effects are probably around the same time. Um, you can micro dose and macro dose, which for some compounds you can't do. Like, I don't know if you would microdose DMT or microdose MDMA or something. But with LSD, you can. It comes in a lot of different forms, of course, that you can ingest it. But typically it has the same duration. And you want to approach it with the same type of mindset, set and setting, intention.

What do you want to figure out? The difference between the two is mushrooms can kind of be a internal experience and LSD can sometimes be an external experience in a way of the, um, being able to control it. So the mushrooms, it feels like the trip is going on inside your head. Whereas with LSD, sometimes it feels like you're more in control,

but you're like, wow. Yeah, I see stuff, but like, I'm very clear. And so what I, what I like to say is,

uh, LSD is euphoric clarity. That is the way I describe LSD. There's no reason it should be called acid. I have no idea who it was like. Let's just call it acid. Yeah. I mean, I get it's like surgic acid is where it comes from.

But it should be called utopia or euphoria or, you know, ecstasy. Unfortunately, it's already taken by, by that other drug MDMA, but, um, it is very gentle.

It's, it's energetic. It will make you want to do things. It will make you want to get up and move. Um, it will also make you sometimes, um, you know,

want to talk to people and share your thoughts. Whereas with mushrooms, you might not. Um, and yeah, I mean, they're both very similar. Um, but, um, you just kind of have to kind of try it for yourself to see what works for your biology. I mean, everybody's different. And, um, I know for performance for me, particularly, um, LSD is my choice because it allows me to work out.

Whereas mushrooms can sometimes make me feel too relaxed to where I'm like, you know what? I'm a little too chill right now. I don't really want to go live. Um, yeah, no, no thanks. You know, whereas LSD, it's like, I'm feeling great. Let's get a pump. Let's go. Really?

Yeah. Wow. And the contraction of the muscle feels better. I can squeeze it. it's like i'm feeling great let's yeah i can get a pump let's go really yeah wow and the contraction of the muscle feels better i can squeeze it whereas with mushrooms it's kind of like i don't know man you should just go you should just go home yeah i don't know man no mind-body connection yeah that's great that was so funny oh man so i could i like i could say lsd is more of a pre-workout yeah and the mushroom is more like i just worked out i'm kind of okay excuse me let me ask this that's a great supplement too you mentioned visuals so obviously like well you know when i did when i did uh my whatever two whatever grams of mushrooms i didn't get any crazy visuals or anything um

but with lsd right if you take a big dose what i mean do you do you get visuals like crazy visuals like what's that like necessarily so um mushrooms are more closed eyes visuals so if you close your eyes while you're on really any level that's where you're going to see the most visuals on psilocybin um that being said you still see it externally somewhat like you might see the walls breathe or some you know shaking lines um with lsd it can be you know i've heard people saying that they've seen a green strip, like the sky cracked open and they've seen a green strip of light the entire time during their trip. I've never seen anything like that. I typically see geometric figures or geometric designs, types of different lines and things like that. Like even in the clouds, I'll kind of see like figures or geometric, you know, just lightly.

It's not like, oh, there's a square and there's a this and there's a that. But the visuals on it are completely dependent on how much you take. Things seem enhanced. When you look at something that has color, it just seems more pronounced, I guess. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Colors seem more vibrant. I guess.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Colors seem more vibrant. You know, depending on how much you take, colors can make you feel certain things or you can taste sound. You can taste music. Like there's very weird things that can, correlations that can happen when you're under the influence of LSD or mushrooms, particularly LSD where, you know you're like music notes are our colors I know mark you experienced something on the beach with psilocybin that was kind of interesting yeah the way the waves that the sound of the waves had color which was weird mm-hmm yeah it was cool mm-hmm and

that's you know I think that's just the linking of the different brain systems and trying to interpret what's being processed. You know, the information that you're receiving is just your brain trying to process that. What do you think personally for yourself opened you up to looking into and investigating any of this in the first place? The health care system has always been a little bit of an issue for me. Um, you know, I've, I've, I've, I've dabbled in, in hormones and some performance enhancing stuff. And, um, you know, I had a lot of experiences going through the medical, um, system to try to find doctors and endocrinologists and, um, you know, urologists and all sorts of doctors. And,

um, my thing is you have to be your own health advocate. You really, they, you know, they work for you and, and you're the boss and you make all the calls and you, you pay for all of your doctor's visits. And, um, I think it's, it's important to look at all necessary options. It's important to look at all necessary options. And for me, I just know from my experience, I used to, when my, had some stuff happen with my hormones, my doctor gave me Klonopin's initially, because I was having panic attacks. What are those?

Anti-anxiety drugs. It was what Jordan Peterson had taken and had some experience with. And it's very difficult to get off of. And when that happened, um, I was like, what's going on? You know, like, why am I feeling like this? And in the end it was, it was my hormone levels, not my, um, not my anxiety. And so ever since then, I've, I've just really had a, a taste, um, from the medical industry that you, you're going to

have to be your own health advocate and figure it out yourself. So not having access to these things and then seeing the results and seeing how many people are like, hey, these work. I was just kind of like, yeah, I'm going to try it. What do I have to lose? Just like you guys and started low and then was like, hey, there's something to this. Like, I don't know why this isn't being discussed more. And then after looking into it more and more, it really is. It is being discussed more and it is coming about and it's conversations like

this, um, that really help, you know, get this conversation into rooms where it might not be before or at the dinner table or at the office or, you know, at the ball game or in the gym,

you know, somewhere where people can connect over how they get better themselves. This is another tool that i think a lot of people have just completely ignored that has untapped potential that is unique to every person's biology so what i get out of it is not going to be the exact same that you what you get out of it and so i think that's what makes it really special and i also think that's what terrifies a lot of the bigger companies like pharma is it is a medication that you can take that is already particular to yourself. They don't know how it necessarily works entirely. And it is something that once you take, you don't have to take forever.

You can actually stop taking it. Hard to monetize. Because it fixes it. So it's, you know, where's the big money in that? Because it fixes it. So it's, you know, where's the big money in that? I think that's been the biggest issue is why we're not seeing more studies is because I think the efficacy that we'll find from it is off the charts. And I think it's applicable to many, many, many different fields like dieting, performance.

I think it'll definitely be a banned substance 100% because of performance. What are some things that it helped you get past because now you don't feel like you need to even mess with those things anymore yeah um you know overall stress um my biggest thing is you know i i do drink you know i'm sure more than o'clock it gets to be man kind of been a long day usually i would go to the gym but just because of the way you know with covid and my family and just where i am in life right now i'm just not it's not my priority right now yeah and so you know i always will just keep working and it's kind of like man, you know what? I'm gonna go grab a beer Mm-hmm. I'm gonna grab my second beer and It gets to a point where I've noticed now it's whenever I get that into the day. All right, you know getting there

Yeah, let's take my microdose. I won't take it during the day. I'll take it then and then an hour later It's oh, yeah. I'm happy. I didn't have that beer. I don't take it during the day I'll take it then and then an hour later it's oh yeah I'm happy I didn't have that beer I don't need it now I'm good so I think that's the thing that a lot of people are going to realize is you can supplement your vices for instance and over time really decrease your use of it similarly to using cannabis in place of alcohol, I think cannabis with the addition of psychedelics in a small and moderate, maybe weekly amount, would do not only society a lot of good and just the positivity, but in terms of harm reduction. I think it's off the charts. And the amount of money that we would save on taxes and everything else from all this damage that's coming from tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals. Yeah. I think that's a really fair assessment. I think that makes a lot of sense, you know, as you're just maybe doing less damage and then maybe each time that you take these substances, it's a little bit of a learning tool.

you're you know kind of uh being taught or shown something uh each time rather than just maybe you know in the case of alcohol maybe uh it does rev you up does get you excited gets you fired up you can like party off it or whatever but um maybe you're not really like learning much from it yeah and i think with these compounds at microdose levels, I do think that they can be used in certain settings of social, like in a social setting. I do think, you know, we were talking before the show, you know, how to get those inhibitions down and kind of get relaxed a little bit in a social environment. I think figuring out what works for you

through just understanding and actual experience and then figuring out the actual dosage or concentration that you need to just take that edge off to where you feel more in the flow, more in the moment, more present, less involved with yourself and your head more present. I think there's absolutely a dosage for everybody at a micro level that will allow them to be who they really want to be in a social setting, but without having to be inebriated. Yeah. You know, and the way that you could get there and figure that out for yourself is, like I said, find something that's from a trusted source, of course, and get it in a measurement where you can really break it down equally to where you can start with 10 milligrams and say, oh, maybe I should do 20 milligrams. But if you only have the option of 50 milligrams and 100 milligrams, well, you know, it doesn't give you a big, it's a pretty big window of variation.

So getting something that's nice and tight like that will allow you to really dial it in to go, well you know it doesn't give you a big it's a pretty big window of variations so getting something that's nice and tight like that will allow you to really dial it in to go okay i need 20 milligrams and it's an hour and a half before any social event and i will be on point i think that's what people are going to figure out is actually i can find a use for this in any setting and i don't want to trip on it i don't want want to get, you know, inebriated or whatever high. Um, so yeah, I think everybody will find use for it.

Yeah. I totally agree with you on that because like whenever I take it or mom, I think I ate two of those right before this podcast. It's like, it just kind of gets rid of a barrier. Like you mentioned, it's like, I don't feel as blocked.

I do feel more present. Um, and I feel fairly,'s like I don't feel as blocked. I do feel more present. And I feel fairly normal per se, but I'm not in my head as much. I'm not really thinking as much about certain things. So it can be very, very useful. Absolutely. That's dope. That's what I'm hoping to actually get out of it myself, to kind of get rid of some of those roadblocks. So I'm looking forward actually get out of it myself, you know, to kind of get rid of some of those roadblocks. So I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah. For you, you've said this a couple times that you respect psychedelics like too much to do something like DMT or, you know, was there an event that happened to where you like they gained your respect and you're like, oh, I better not fuck with that again. No. you like they gained your respect and you're like oh i better not fuck with that again no um i think it was just more or less with with um you know with psilocybin you know taking five grams or five to seven grams um you know anything over five grams is what terence mckenna considered as the heroic dose which is really where you kind of break through that veil and what they would say you know anything under five grand is just the pre-show that's that's that's that's the easy stuff you really want to work on yourself go to five grams and shut yourself in a black room with you know close your eyes then you'll go deep wow okay i've never i've never had you know anything like that but i just know the realizations i've had from mushrooms and from lsd is i do think

you can sometimes get a little bit of like what the fuck have i done yes but it's only for a second then you chill then you calm down and you're good again but that way you just said is something that a lot of people get hung up on and that's when you enter a bad trip is because when you're on the rise up, you go, oh boy, there's no turning back from this. What did I do? And at that point, like I said, you're strapped in, you're on like a roller coaster ride that you can't actually handle. And you're like, fuck, you just got to release, put your hands in the air and have fun.

Yeah. Yep. And just let go. Um, do you actually feel some, cause so again again back to edibles and me just we don't click but i will actually like literally start feeling like i'm on like a teeter-totter thing where i'm like oh fuck like my balance eating my equilibrium kind of goes out the window does anything like that ever happen on a good amount of mushrooms yeah you could you can it could make us that you just want to lay on a bed

and close your eyes yeah um but again all these are at high dosages and what i recommend and i guess for anybody listening that wants to know like what are the standard units of measurement so i can know like what a dose is yeah a dose of lsd is 100 um what are they micrograms. They're even smaller than that. UGs. Picograms? It's like the smallest unit of measure, not international units.

Anyways, it's like the UG or whatever. So, 100 of those is one dose of LSD, where a dose of mushrooms is considered 500 milligrams. Yeah, so one microgram is one millionth of a gram and a thousandth to a milligram. Okay, cool. Lots of math going on.

Yeah. Calculations. Got to carry the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Calculations. Got to carry the one.

Yeah. Um, half gram of magic mushroom is a hundred micrograms of the LSD. And really with mushrooms, you can go, you know, that's just where you should start. Um, with mushrooms,

you can take more with LSD. As soon as you take it, um, you're not only committed, but you can't take more 20, 30 minutes after the reason is your tolerance immediately goes up upon ingestion immediately. So if you're just a pro tip, if you're really trying to, you know, once you understand what

one dose does to you, if you're like, okay, I could do two, take two at the same time, don't take one and then be like, okay, I could take more and take it 30 minutes later. You won't get the true effects of it. So just know that going in is once you want to learn about it you might want to start low but that's probably all you're going to be able to take for the day okay yeah and for for mushrooms is there a difference between like the the top the mushroom top and then the stem yeah yeah good question um yeah caps for stems um juries somewhat still out but realistically a, some of the tests and chromatography tests that are coming out of Oakland show that there's not a huge difference. with mushrooms that you're getting you know from agar or from liquid culture which are isolations which anybody listening that knows that kind of knows

I'm talking about but it's basically making so that each mushroom is is uniform and potency and in size and look and so when done that way, you can, uh, you can get your potencies to be much more, um, homogenized or accurate to be much more similar to each other. Um, the whole idea of like, oh, my friend ate this mushroom and I ate this one and I didn't get high, but he did. And he only ate a little bit and I ate way more. That is an actual issue because of multi-spore. And what that is, is when you do mushroom cultivation, if you do mushroom cultivation and you use multi-spore, what that is, is basically you're using millions and millions of spores to inoculate your spawn or your grain, for instance. And you're introducing thousands of different genetics. And so it's just like a battle Royale in there of who, whatever spore has the best and takes over.

And then when you fruit it, when you, when you actually harvest, you're going to have different mushrooms of like the same species, but they're different variations. So they're all snowflakes and you don't know what's going to be what, and this one little one's really potent. And this one is big.

One is not at all. That's why. So it's an, it's an issue. But when, again, when you have somebody who knows what they're doing, um,

you don't have to worry about that. Since we're on this topic, uh, red flags or, Oh, this guy doesn't know what he's doing. You kind of mentioned one earlier where like, if you get something moist,

Oh, not good. So what are some other like red flags like oh this is not a good source um all mushrooms um need to be cracker dry or bone dry um typically if you're going to be storing them for long term they need to be vacuum sealed and with a desiccant pack or in a mason jar with a desiccant pack, which is a dry pack. They'll store for about a month or so in just a regular sandwich bag and you consume them. They really want it to be cracker and bone dry as moisture degrades psilocybin. And once you get them wet, you know, you're committed. If you

make a tea, you can't re redry them. Um, the only other thing realistically is, um, when you get your mushrooms, um, a good, a good tell sign, if the person really cared about what they were doing or if they're just in it for other reasons is did they cut the bottoms of the mushrooms if they cut the bottoms of the mushrooms and they're clean there's no dirt there's no substrate on them your person cared about what they were doing and they went the extra mile because they're probably gonna consume those themselves or they're gonna give those to friends and family if you get mushrooms that are just their bottoms are covered in a little bit of dirt or like you can tell someone's kind of rubbed it off and they're not cut they're not cut that person's just trying to make a buck

yeah and not that they're bad but who knows what other shortcuts or other things that they could have done to not make it the best and that's an easy tell outside of that um you know maybe look for some blue bruising on your dried fruit so on the on the dried mushrooms maybe look for some blue colorations that's a sure sign that what you're getting is actually magic mushrooms that's psilocybin um oxidizing with the air um if you have mushrooms that literally have no bluing whatsoever anywhere it's's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's just another thing that you can have in your pocket. Typically, the bluing will be on the stems, not really on caps. And the other thing is if you can get it, you want your caps to be closed. Once they open all the way and they start to go up, they'll drop their spores.

If you can get them when the veil is just starting to break, where your mushroom starts to open and there's that little piece of tissue that kind of attaches to the stem, that's called the veil. Right when that starts to open or rip, that's when you want to harvest them. That's the best peak of harvest. Since they won't be putting their energy into spore production, they're still putting their energy into psilocybin production and obviously you want to keep them in a dry place but is there a shelf life for if you do get them like you have to take them within whatever or you can just keep them until you uh properly stored in a dry dark room temperature place in a vacuum sealed bag with a dry pack stored that way they can last months and months and months, you know, up to a year or so.

Um, the only thing that's going to degrade it is light air moisture. So if you keep all those away from it, they should keep just fine. Um, but keeping a desiccant pack and vacuum sealing them in a food saver bag is hypercritical for longterm storage. Don't put them in a freezer.

Um, it's not good for the for it it can cause moisture build up and yeah they're not really you don't have to really worry about heat if your room gets too hot it's fine psilocybin is extraordinarily stable so it's not going to degrade but alternatively

for LSD some of those things are not true. So for LSD, you want to not touch it. Oil from human hands can degrade it. So if you have papers or tablets, you want to not touch them. Just leave them in where they are. And if you handle it, handle it with a glove. It doesn't go through the skin.

So you don't need to really worry about like, oh, whoops, I touched it. Is it going to go through the skin so you don't need to really worry about like oh whoops I touched it is it going to go through my skin no if you get it in a liquid don't ever it will usually come with a dropper try not to ever take that dropper and put free drops in your mouth like just dripping it in your mouth don't ever do that

drip it into a shot glass and then fill that shot glass with a little bit of vodka or a little bit of distilled water. Oh, really? Vodka? Mm-hmm. Oh, interesting. The one thing that should be noted about LSD is it's extraordinarily reactive to chlorine.

So anything in tap water, it's going to pretty much degrade it immediately. So don't chase it with tap water. Don't mix it with tap water. Don't even just keep tap water away. Just use vodka or distilled water only for LSD. Yeah. Okay. And you'll be good. But, um, yeah, LSD, just keep out of the heat, keep out of the sun. Um, if it's in a liquid form, keep it in an amber vial. Um, yeah, I've, you know, you should vacuum seal it. Um, if you have just to guard it from air and you're good time of day for these things. Ideally, like, you know, if you were to ever do it, um, I mean, Mark's got some experience with different times of day.

I know. Um, but well, LSD can kind of keep you awake a little bit from my own experience. Um, yeah, I mean, typically you want to give it enough time to actually enjoy it and enjoy the experience. And also tripping at night is not necessarily the most fun. Like you do like to be in the sun. You do like to be, you know, during the daytime, um, it will help, it'll cause you to not sleep both of them.

time, it will cause you to not sleep both of them. So I would really say after noon to 3 o'clock, you should be like, how bad do I want to do this? What am I doing? Where do I want to go with this? How long do I want to be up? Because if you take it at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, you're going to not sleep that entire night and you'll be up till 7 a.m. the next morning. If you take a trip level, if you take a microdose um you could be up

until midnight maybe or 11 o'clock but um typically i like to take it with a meal um specifically psychedelic or um psilocybin just so that it digests slower and if there is any like to be honest like i don't even like to feel it at all anymore like if i felt i'm like nope i took it on a stomach i shouldn't have done that like i don't like to feel it at all anymore. Like if I felt I'm like, Nope, I took it on an empty stomach. I shouldn't have done that. Like I don't like to feel it at all, but I still get the positives from, from it.

Um, and I barely, I rarely do it anymore, but when I do, I mix it with food. Um, LSD, not so much.

I can take it on an empty stomach and, and tolerate it just fine. But, um, yeah, it's really it. I want to take us on out of here, Andrew. I will.

Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. If you found it educational as much as I did, make sure you guys hit that like button and share it with somebody who might be interested in some of this stuff as well. Follow the podcast at Mark Bell's Power Project on Instagram at MB Power Project on TikTok and Twitter. My Instagram and Twitter is at IamAndrewZ. And Seema, where are you at? And Seema Inyang on Instagram and YouTube, and Seema Inyang on TikTok and Twitter. And guys, make sure to go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review,

because the reviews have been great. Actually, I think one of our latest reviews said, I have a vagina and I love this show. So we're getting some female love too. So yeah, guys, go help us out. Leave a five-star review on that podcast. We love you. Mark?

Thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. You gave our listeners a lot of good quality information and hopefully moving forward, they can make some good decisions if they choose to go down this route I guess I'm at Mark Smelly Bell strength is never weakness weakness never strength catch y'all later