Mark Bell's Power Project - Fouad Abiad: Pro Bodybuilding Stories, Sam Sulek, & The Rise of HOSSTILE || MBPP Ep. 1080

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

In episode 1080, Fouad Abiad, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about Sam Sulek's contract with Hosstile, what it took for Fouad to compete at the highest level of bodybuilding and why bloodwork for young bodybuilders is more than just getting a health checkup. Follow Fouad on IG: https://www.instagram.com/fouadabiad/   Official Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below!   🍆  Natural Sexual Performance Booster 🍆  ➢https://usejoymode.com/discount/POWERPROJECT Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   🚨 The Best Red Light Therapy Devices and Blue Blocking Glasses On The Market! 😎 ➢https://emr-tek.com/ Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   👟 BEST LOOKING AND FUNCTIONING BAREFOOT SHOES 🦶 ➢https://vivobarefoot.com/powerproject   🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖  ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save up to 25% off your Build a Box ➢ Piedmontese Beef: https://www.CPBeef.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   🩸 Get your BLOODWORK Done! 🩸  ➢ https://marekhealth.com/PowerProject to receive 10% off our Panel, Check Up Panel or any custom panel, and use code POWERPROJECT for 10% off any lab!   Sleep Better and TAPE YOUR MOUTH (Comfortable Mouth Tape) 🤐  ➢ https://hostagetape.com/powerproject to receive a year supply of Hostage Tape and Nose Strips for less than $1 a night!   🥶 The Best Cold Plunge Money Can Buy 🥶  ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   Self Explanatory 🍆  ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained:      ➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!   ➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Become a Stronger Human - https://thestrongerhuman.store ➢ UNTAPPED Program - https://shor.by/JoinUNTAPPED ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en   Follow Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Podcast Courses and Free Guides: https://pursuepodcasting.com/iamandrewz ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz/ ➢ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

When a contract is given, everybody knows what's going on. Fouad Abiyad has been blocking Sam Sulek from doing all these podcasts. It wasn't a deal in the contract that they couldn't go on a podcast. It was that they couldn't start a weekly podcast. The biggest YouTuber that there is, Mr. Beast. Do you think he'll go on? I said, I don't know. I'll ask him. Sam wasn't interested.

He just wants to keep to himself. He's just a kid who wants to work out. Pushing yourself to 300 pounds, you've probably taken a lot of stuff. Was there like a regard to health? I don't want to say there's no regard to health, but that just a kid who wants to work out. Pushing yourself to 300 pounds, you're probably taking a lot of stuff. Was there like a regard to health? I don't want to say there's no regard to health, but that's probably the best way to put it. What does it take to get to the level that you've got to? It takes a drive to ignore everything in your life, which is totally counterintuitive to what people want to be doing. You started at 20 getting ready for a show and PEDs.

For the young guys who are just like getting started, what advice do you have for them? How your blood work is performing is a direct relation to how your steroid use, your muscle growth, your recovery is all performing at the same time. The cleaner your blood work is and the better it looks, the better your gains of muscle are gonna be. All right, so I know on your show, you talk a lot about eating ass.

Yes. Oh shit, really? It's the main, it's usually the main topic. Yeah. Let's go. So we have information to share with you. We had a guy on the show who is super brilliant, my buddy Carl Lenore, and Carl talked about eating ass

and how healthy it can be for the gut microbiome if you pick the right lady. Wait up, do you want him to guess why it is? What person? I'm not gonna guess, I'm really curious about what type of lady now. She has to be healthy, right? Yeah, they gotta be healthy, yeah.

Yeah, so if they have a healthy gut microbiome, then if you're eating that, then you're getting healthier too. What's the chance is that, so if I meet a girl at the bar and she's not in great shape, then I know I'm probably not in a good, good ass race. Yeah, probably. Okay. Yeah. And then here we don't have to eat each other's asses

because we pass around poop in the gym. It's all over the plates and the, you know. Oh yeah. What are you talking about? Urine and pee and poop, it's everywhere. You know, I just visited my girlfriend's family and one of her older aunts was like, oh, I heard you do a podcast. Oh, I should listen in.

And you're like, no, no, no, no, no, don't listen. And then another older member was like, yeah, it's Mark Bell's power project. Oh, here, I'll link you to it. Oh, no, game over. Yeah, never listen to that. I don't know, I thought maybe your fans, you know, that was more for your fans.

That was my opinion. That was more for your people. They're going to love that. Yeah, that was more for your people. They're gonna love that. Yeah. Yeah. So you were telling me in the gym that you had your company hostile for about three years now? Four now, actually.

Sorry, I misspoke because I just realized it was March 11th, 2020. So it's four years now. And was that just kind of like a natural shift from your bodybuilding career to, I guess, trying to fill in gaps and try to figure out what you wanted to do next type thing? It was kind of by accident, to be honest with you.

I just, I wanted to find something to do in the bodybuilding industry and I started a podcast because I was going to get away from the bodybuilding industry as a whole when I retired. And I decided to start a podcast, actually Jordan Shallow told me, he came to work out with me one time, we're both from Windsor. And I was telling him about my idea. I was like, you know, there's no podcast for bodybuilders where you get to learn about

the bodybuilders. All you hear is podcasts about You know how much chicken they ate or what their trainings like or whatever. You don't actually get to know who they are And I'm like, I kind of want to do like a Joe Rogan Podcast for bodybuilding and he's like, well just do it and I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. He's like spy Mike get a webcam and just do it So I did I I bought like a really shitty webcam, and I bought like a USB mic, nothing like this setup.

And I started Zoom calling different bodybuilders. I started with like Ron Pardolo, and then I got Evan Senaponte came on, and just the various bodybuilders came on, Branch Warren came on, and it started to kind of roll. Actually, the first three episodes I did were by myself. I was just talking about different topics. And this is while you're still bodybuilding?

Well- Or getting closer to the- I had kind of been done competing, but I hadn't officially retired because I thought I might still compete, but I think deep down I kind of knew it was over. So I just wanted to do something for bodybuilding that was beneficial, and I thought, hey, you know I just wanted to do something for bodybuilding that was beneficial and I thought,

hey, you know, people should get to know these guys. So I did and then it kind of started to take off. It got pretty good views. I'm like, okay, I think people like what I'm doing. I got a lot of good feedback from people. And then I think episode eight, I did an episode with Luke Sando. And we hit it off.

He was funny, smart, we had a great conversation. I'm like, hey, do you want to do this every week? So I started doing two podcasts. We called that one Bodybuilding and Bollocks, which in the UK terms, Bollocks is balls. So because we were talking, kind of talking nonsense and bodybuilding, so I'm like, okay, let's call it Bodybuilding and Bollocks. So we started running with it and I was still doing the single podcast at the same time, so I would do like, one a week would be me and a guest shooting the shit about that person's life, and then the other one would be me and Luke

just talking about bodybuilding or life in general. And the one with me and Luke started to take off. People really liked that it was like just two guys just talking about anything and everything from sex to bodybuilding to going to the bathroom to like just everyday shit. And, um, when Luke passed away, uh, Luke passed away, I think about a year later, I wasn't sure if I should keep the podcast going or not because we had started to introduce a couple

of his friends, Ben Chow and James Hollingshead. So I was like, I don't know if I should keep this going, it doesn't feel right. And then they were kind of like, look, you should kind of do it for him. I was like, okay, so me, Ben and James started doing one together while I was still doing the singles and it just took off.

It kept going and then we added a fourth person and then I added a third podcast called Bro Chat with a few other guys, and they just kept getting better and better views. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna keep doing this. And the guests have switched around a lot over the years. It's been three or four years now since I started doing it. But the tone of the podcast is the same

and the viewership is the same. The numbers are pretty stable the whole way through. People get a lot of enjoyment out of it. The company Hostile started after that. So a lot of people think the company started first and the podcast came to bring views to the company. And that wasn't the case. The podcast has always been its own entity.

And luckily, it helped drive some people to the brand. That wasn't ever planned. It just kind of happened that way. It's kind of cool how accidental it was, because the one thing you notice is you see a lot of competitors that finish up bodybuilding, and then the immediate thing they try to do is start a self-employment company. And and unfortunately it just doesn't have enough behind it. But because you're already doing something to really give back, it seems like that's something that helped fuel hostile, but what else do you think fueled hostile to what it is right now?

Because it's in a short amount of time. I think my wife is a main driver of it. So me and my wife both worked at Cage Muscle. Okay. It was Cage Muscle, right? She was on, I forget what her exact title was. I forget what her exact title was, but she had a team under her anyways. And she was heading up all their marketing and stuff. And I was an athlete there. And she ended up leaving. Then I left shortly afterwards. But while I was there, I was kind of already in the midst of retiring.

And I said to them, hey guys, you know, would you guys be interested in me starting my own line under your brand? But it would be kind of more of a hardcore line with, like there's some ingredients that I really like that you guys aren't using and whatever. And they said, no, we're not interested. There's no market for like the hardcore bodybuilder.

They were kind of doing a lifestyle thing. Like whoever's familiar with CAGE knows they're more of like, I don't want to say weekend warrior, but they're not as hardcore like bodybuilding, right? So I was like, okay. I'm like, I could see a market for it. Cause I know there's companies like Animal around for decades and stuff.

So I'm like, I know there's hardcore bodybuilders out there that want good products. So when my wife left and then I left and we were, I was already doing the podcast and I was like, what can we do? And I'm like, I looked at, there was another company in Canada that I knew of that had one guy doing it. And then I looked at CAGED, their formula and how they were doing it. And I'm like, okay, if I look at these two companies, they have three main people. They have a numbers guy, they have a marketing guy, and they have a guy out front. And I'm like, we have that. Because my brother was interested at the time in joining us. So I'm like, my brother already ran five businesses. So I'm like, we have a CFO.

I'm like, my wife is across the board. I mean, she's the CMO of the company, but she also does compliance. She also does formulation. Like she's got a research and science background. So I'm like, I have that part of it. I have the backend covered. And I'm like, I'm doing this podcast thing that's kind of taken off.

I'm like, we have the front of the house. And I'm like, what are they doing? Why can they do it? We can't. We have the same formula. So we decided to do it. We're like, fuck it, let's do it. So we started looking up manufacturers

and summer, my wife is very diligent about that. She was like, let's look for the best one. And we did all that and whatever. We got some formulas and some products done. And I started, it's funny, before she was fully invested in it, I was testing products myself. I was buying like all the raw ingredients from Amazon.

I would buy like, I buy like my citrulline, I buy my taurine, I buy like my Pico two, whatever, whatever ingredients I want to use. And I would start putting, I had a little gram scale, like a Coke dealer. And I would sit there and like put together a formula and I would go to the gym and try it. I'm like, oh, this fucking feels good.

And I'd go to the next day and I'm like, oh, let's add some alpha GPC. I think Andrew dabbled in a lot of that, right? I did a lot of that with nootropics. Yeah, same thing. I'd have that little scale and I'd feel like a really cool chemist. And then I would capsulate them and all that stuff too.

It was a lot of fun. Did have success like you though. But that's what I started. I started out adding the alpha GPC and the Hooperzine and stuff like that. I would add in little amounts and I was like, oh, fuck this. I think I got a really good one.

So I told my wife, she's like, okay, I'll get involved. It seems like, you know, I had been doing this for like a couple months on my own. And at the time, sorry, I didn't tell you this part. I was selling t-shirts out of the basement. Okay. So I had, in the basement, I had like a poker table set out that had like all my mail bags.

I had my like labeling system, like the whole thing. And I was just like selling t-shirts, um, packaging my stuff and sending them out. And she thought it was cute. She's like, oh, he's, he's doing so he's doing something cute after bodybuilding. He's got like this podcast. He's packaging t-shirts in the basement. He's making little Graham scales. If I can pre-workout, she didn't like, she wasn't invested, right?

Yeah. So then she started seeing like, she wasn't invested, right? Yeah. So then she started seeing like, I'm getting serious about it in the podcast, taking it out, she's like, okay, I'll work with you. She's like, I don't, cause she had another offer from a big company to go be their marketing officer or whatever.

And I was like, look, we can do this. So she's like, okay, I'll do it with you. So she looks at my formulas, she rounds them out. She's like, I think it needs this. I think it needs that. Cause I had like, I had basically one pathway to pump, um, pump energy focus, uh, and endurance. I basically had one pathway for each in the, in the pre-workout. She's like, I think you need to, you need to come at it from a couple other angles.

So she put two, uh, ingredients for each pathway, right? And now I try it and I'm like, holy fuck, this is like the best workout, pre-workout I've ever had. And I'm not saying that because it's mine. I was just like, this is really good. Yeah. And so we took that. That was our first formula.

We took that to the manufacturer and we're like, we wanna do this. We got pricing. John Meadows was a huge help because John had already had granite. So John really helped me in the infancy of it. Like, hey, these are some decent manufacturers you should talk to.

He helped me build out the mineral portion of the pre-workout. Like, Summer built it out, but we always ran it. Like, I'd take it to John and be like, what do you think? He's like, it looks good. He's like, that's, you know. So we would took that to the manufacturer and then we just started.

We just like, these are your bottles. This is what it's gonna look like. We had a really great designer that had been working for almost a decade on like show promotion and clothing. So he designed some labels and things just kind of started to come together and we launched. Yeah. You were mentioning in the gym about like you're proud of the company, you're happy about it, but I also heard you kind of talking with Flex Lewis how

you don't feel like you're ever satisfied. And the way that you worded it, I thought was super interesting. You said somebody might look at that as a positive, when someone's like, oh, that athlete's never satisfied. He won that tournament or he won that championship and he still is hungry for more. But you looked at it as, or you said that it feels like a negative.

Yeah, it is. You know what, I think part of it is my best friend, Paul, who's on a podcast with me, so anybody watching from the podcast that's come to watch this will know, but Paul is very satisfied with life, which is, to some people, they look at it as a negative. Like, well, what a pussy. Yeah. Why does he want more? Right. But being friends with life, which is to some people they look at it as a negative, like, well, yeah, what a pussy. Yeah. Why does he want more? Right. But being friends with them, I watch them on a daily basis for 20 years. Now we've been friends. He's just happy. You know, he's got a job. He makes good money. Like he's got two kids, a wife, a modest home, but he's got all the time in the world.

He works like three or four days a week. He, you know, he can get time off whenever he needs it. He's a bodybuilding judge. He's an IFBB Pro judge, which is his passion. Yeah. But he's just happy, right? He's not running this rat race. He's not like, well, I'll make it a hundred grand.

I want to make two. I want to make three. I want to make four. I'm like, yeah, that's nice. But then how much time are you giving up to make two, to make three, to make four? So to some people, when they look at somebody who's never satisfied." I'm like, yeah, that's nice, but then how much time are you giving up to make two, to make three, to make four? So to some people when they look at somebody who's never satisfied, they're like, oh, that guy's got a lot of ambition.

He's got a lot of passion. He's like, he really wants everything. But there's a negative side to it that I don't think people look at. You never wake up happy. You wake up and you're like, what do I got to do today to get better? Which is good, but also bad, right? Cause there has to be a, there has to be a stop and smell the roses moment,

or else you just, like when I talk about my bodybuilding career, it's a blur. People are like, what was bodybuilding like? I'm like, I don't remember. Does it feel failed? No, I got what I wanted at a bodybuilding. I mean, I have,

I started bodybuilding cause I wanted to work out and make a living and make a living working out because I love working out. I didn't start bodybuilding because I wanted to be the best bodybuilder on earth. So in that regard, it's a complete success because I have all the things in life that I want. If you look at it in a competitive sense, then I was probably a second tier bodybuilder at best. But I don't look at it that way because I just wanted to work out to make a living and be in the gym and not have to go to a regular nine to five and still be able to contribute to my family life.

And I did all of that. You ever ask Paul here, say, dude, what's the deal? How'd you figure this out? How are you so happy all the time? We talk about it all the time. We do, we talk about it all of that. So. You ever ask Paul here say, dude, what's the deal? How'd you figure this out? How do you talk about it all the time? We talk about it all the time. We do, we talk about it all the time. And you know what he says to me? He says, I'm jealous of you.

And I say, well, I'm jealous of you. We don't, it's like, you always want. Canadians being nice. Yeah. No, you, no, you. No, no, seriously though. Cause he looks at me and he's like, you know, for a long time, he was a level one, level two judge in bodybuilding.

And I would, you know, at one point I said to him like, Paul, you gotta ask for what you want. Like, he's like, why are they, they would, he would say to me, like, they're moving other people up and not me. And I would say to him, you gotta ask for what you want. You gotta like, if you wanna be a national level judge, you gotta ask him to put you on the panel.

So that's what he meant. He was like, you know, sometimes when you want something, you just ask for it or you go after it. And he's like, I don't do that. And I was like, yeah, but I'm always trying to go after what I want and you seem way more relaxed. So like, that's the portion of life that I'm missing out on is I just wanna relax. So like this weekend, for example, going for a ride with Steve was like, I take

these opportunities more now that I have before. So I have time to like just take off and relax and then kind of enjoy my life. So I'm trying to take that page out of Paul's book. But then every other day I'm like running the rat race. So it's like this middle ground. I had to ask you though, do you think you can do both? Like, I mean, cause you know, you can be grateful for everything that you've been able to do, but then you can also be like, well, there's still shit that you want to do.

You don't think like, is it just difficult for you to think of both or? No, you can do both. I don't think I did when I was bodybuilding. Ah, okay. So when I was bodybuilding, I think it was like, I would do something and even if I did it right, I would be like, yeah, but I can do it better.

I'm like, I can be better. Or I would finish a show and instead of enjoying like, and enjoying the prep and enjoying the show, the next day I would finish the show, I'd be like, what did I do wrong? How come I wasn't first? Why was I second? Why was I third?

How can I get back in the gym and be better for next? Like you just never, I never stopped to just enjoy the fact that I'm bodybuilding for a living. And when you're really big, you're not big enough and you're fat. And then when you're lean, you're not lean enough and you're small. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like you just see all the negatives.

It's like this constant like, and that's kind of what I meant by the comment to flex, like this constant unhappiness, kind of what I meant by the comment to flex, like this constant unhappiness, like I'm never satisfied with anything. It's like, it's always gotta be better. And that's like, now I think of being older, I think maybe it's a maturity thing too.

Being older now, I'm able to like take a weekend and be like, oh, you know, we had a really good week of sales or like we came up with this really cool product that I like, or sometimes I'll step back in like a macro view and be like, holy shit, like, what are we doing? Like five years ago, I was like packaging this shit in my basement. So maybe the age is helping like my perception of it all. Gotcha. Do you have a hard time kind of like shutting off that side?

Because for me, what happens is if I take a day off or something, all I think about is the stuff that I could be doing or should be doing in my head, should be doing. And then I end up not even being present in that moment of whatever I'm trying to like relax or recuperate, whatever it may be. And so it's like I'm chasing two rabbits and I end up with nothing, right? I do maybe a little bit of work to try to satisfy that and doesn't really get anything accomplished. Step away from the family for a little bit and I don't hang out with them. So like, are you able to kind of like shut that off? And if so, how?

Now I am. When I was bodybuilding, I wasn't. When I was bodybuilding, it was like, even if I wasn't thinking about bodybuilding, I was thinking about bodybuilding. Because like what people don't realize is when you're bodybuilding, it's like, there's this clock in the back of your head where you're like, I gotta eat in two hours. I gotta go train today. It's like you're always thinking, oh, I forgot to take my aminos.

I forgot, I gotta do an injection. There's always this shit that you have to do. So even when you're on vacation, you're like, where can I get a meal while I'm here? You can't just be with your wife and like chill out. You're like, I gotta figure out how to fit bodybuilding into this vacation.

Now I'm different. My wife is in your shoes. So my wife handles so much of the business backend that even when we're away, we're not away. She's got her phone and we're usually talking about work. I've learned in this role now, like I'm able to get away with Steve for a couple of days and just ride motorcycles and not think about work.

I didn't even look at my phone pretty much except for to text my wife and tell her I didn't die on any of the hills. But yeah, no, that's it. I think, I don't know if it's... I can't explain it. I feel like maybe this job I'm in now, my wife actually has more of the responsibility than I do,

because I feel like being the front of the house is easier than being the back end. So she's always on it. So it was like a combination of having the right people helping you, but also building yourself into that situation where you can, you know, kind of break out for a weekend and still come back later and nothing. And everything's, all the wheels are still spinning. Right, right. Yeah. I just, I think I just told Steve on the way here, I said, without my wife, I couldn't be on this trip.

I would have to be home doing whatever I'm doing, right? So yes, having the right people around you is a major thing. But also there was some times later on in my career in bodybuilding, because I think age might have something to do with it. There was times in my bodybuilding career where it's like, if you did go on a vacation with a couple of friends, they would be like, well, I'm not eating my chicken breast,

but I'm gonna get a pizza that has chicken on it. So like, you think they're still doing something right? I'm not, no offense, Steve, I'm not trying to like pick at you or anything. But I swear to God, this isn't about you, I swear to God. But. Smoky's meal prep is pizza thrown into a plastic container

or maybe a glass container. There you go. No, but I was the guy who was like, okay, if we're off, we're off. But that didn't come to later in my career. When I was younger, I didn't know I could do that. So I don't know, maybe it's an age and experience thing. Maybe it's a people around you thing.

Maybe it's a combination. I don't know. How do you know how to shut it off sometimes, you know, chatting with your wife about business? Do you guys set a timer or anything like that? That's the toughest thing, man. That's literally the toughest part of my day because I'll give you an example.

In the morning driving to work, I like to get a coffee on my way to work and just drive to work, I put the music on and I don't think about anything. I just have my coffee and enjoy my drive. And sometimes my wife will come with me, sometimes she'll take her own car. When she comes with me, my drive is horrible.

I love you Summer. I just, but it's- Why are you parking over here? No, not that way. Oh. No, no. No. You should have gone left back there.

No, no, not that way. She'll, we'll be on the way to work and she'll be like, we gotta do this today at work. We gotta do that today. We gotta do this. We got that. And I'm like, summer, we're gonna beat the office in 10 minutes.

Just when we get there, just give me a list, but just let me just enjoy the drive. So it's like, or other times we'll be out like, she's got all her notifications on her phone. Oh yeah. It's like every email, every DM, it's all notification. So we'll be, like, for example, we went for a ride the other day.

A couple of weeks ago, we went for a ride together. We get to this restaurant, we're gonna have like a dinner outside on the balcony and her phone's just like, bing, bing, bing. I'm like, she's checking customer service tickets. And like, I'm like, can you just like, bing, bing, bing. I'm like, she's checking customer service tickets. And I'm like, can you just not, just for a little bit, can I have your phone? And I have to put it in my back pocket.

So yes, the work. It's funny, my brother came in to the office, because me and my wife work side by side at desks in the office. And he came in and he sat across from us and he's like, I'm so jealous of you guys. And I was like, why? He's like, I couldn't do this with my wife. He's like, you guys work.

And I'm like, he doesn't know how much we fight about. He just saw the one minute where we were not fighting. Serenity. Yeah, no, but there's times when I love it because when I'm watching her in action, this is gonna sound really cheesy, but it makes me love her more, because I'm like, holy fuck, man, she's a machine.

But then there's times where I'm like, just give it a rest. Well, you don't want that machine energy to turn towards you. That's right. A lot of heat. Yeah, so it's a love hate thing, but I wouldn't change it for the world. Yeah.

How about bodybuilding? Because we talked a little bit in the gym about like your 20 years, I think you were a bodybuilder, right? I'm curious because you said that you wanted to make a living bodybuilding, and it's not like you wanted to be the best bodybuilder. But even so, if you were to like go into your career

and like change aspects of the way you did things, whether it was aspects of your PD use or aspects of your training, is there anything that you actually could have improved upon if we can get back into that mode of get better? Yeah. So when I met John Meadows, he was like the calmest person I ever met.

So one of the main things, and the reason I bring that up is he was able to calm me down because I think my biggest crutch in bodybuilding was the anxiety would build as I prepped and it would affect the way I competed. And when I met John, he was able to just kind of keep me calm. Like, you know, you guys have met John, I'm sure. He was a very calm person.

He just very even keel, very, I was always very confident in his abilities. So that kept me calm. And, um, I wish I had somebody like that when I started, that's probably the main thing I look at. Like everybody kind of looks at X's and O's and they're like, Oh, would you have eaten different chicken or would you have eaten like, would you've taken more tests or whatever? And I'm like, sometimes it's like the intangible things

that you can't like pinpoint because no matter how perfect your PD use is, your diet is, your training is, if your mind is fucked, it doesn't matter. Like it just won't matter. Like if you're not, and you'll hear bodybuilders say this a lot is if like you're enjoying yourself, you look better.

So, I mean, there's me now. But yeah, so when I was working with John, I actually was really enjoying my training and I was very relaxed and stuff and it showed through in my physique. So, I don't know, I would, that's the main thing I would change. And then obviously some other stuff, I was very, I probably ate a lot more pizza than I should eat.

If I look back, I probably would have been a little bit more strict with my diet and the off season, of course. Yeah. Training wise, I suffered a lot of injuries. I was a little bit reckless with my training. I wouldn't call myself a perfect form advocate, but I don't think I was sloppy sloppy either. But I think if I changed the way I trained a little bit,

I probably could have had less injuries. Do you think maybe sometimes the weight was maybe just too heavy or is it more so a form thing like you were just saying? I think it might be a form thing. It might be because I did a lot of volume and I would've been aware and tear thing. I think this is one of my theories,

obviously a bro science theory, but I started kind of bodybuilding at the same time I started steroids. And I think, and this has always just been my own theory, and I've heard other people say it too, so I think other people may feel the same, but I have no scientific research to back it up, but I feel like if you train naturally for a while

before you start PED use, you may have an easier time, only because I know PED use can affect the way your tendons are and affect the fragility of them, I guess, and how fast the muscle grows in comparison to how much the tendon can handle. So I'm like, sometimes I wonder if maybe starting PD use at the same time was a detriment to my long-term career in as far as like tearing muscles and things like that.

Do you think some of the anxiety and stuff like that may have led to the injuries as well? Like, just your mind kind of being all over the place and maybe not, and maybe it was hard to even focus on the workouts specifically and it may have even been tough to even feel like you had a good workout because you put so much pressure on yourself.

It could, I never looked at it that way. I mean, if I did, it wouldn't be a conscious thing because the one thing that, I think the main reason I started bodybuilding is because there was no anxiety while I was training. Right? So it was like, for example, I'd be at university and I'd be like, just anxious being around

people because it's more of like a social anxiety. I'm like, I don't want to fucking be here. I don't want to sit in a class with 300 people. I don't want to like, and I would go to the gym and be like, I don't fucking by myself. You know, there's people in the gym, but I'm by myself. I'm here by myself, I'm training the way I wanna train, I'm doing what I wanna do, and that's what I fell in love with.

So if anything, that hour in the gym was a time where I didn't have anxiety, but subconsciously you might be right, because the pressure of the show was looming. So I could have been putting too much pressure on myself that way, where it might've affected me for sure. There's actually no doubt in my mind that that was part of it. But it was a different kind of anxiety than I'd experienced socially. Because the anxiety of performance is different than the anxiety of, like, societal anxiety, right?

Because now it's not about anybody watching me, it's just about, you start thinking to yourself, okay, what's going to happen if I win this show? If I win this show, maybe I can ask for a bigger contract. Maybe I get more fans. More fans is not a vain thing. It's like, if my fan base grows, I can sell more merchandise or I can get more coaching clients

or whatever it is you're trying to do, right? So you're like, all these things start to hinge on you doing well or winning. So that pressure is like performance pressure that probably definitely got to me while I was training. Was there like a regard to health? When you were, I mean, obviously like you're pushing yourself to 300 pounds, you're probably taking

a lot of stuff. So, but you're probably also aware of the consequences, but are you getting blood work done, or you have anybody you can kind of check in with to? There's absolutely no, I don't want to say there's no regard to health, but that's probably the best way to put it. It was complete disregard because

anybody in their right mind is not going to be like, hey, you know what? I'm gonna be 300 fucking pounds and I'm gonna be 12% body fat and I'm gonna take two grams of fucking juice a week or three, maybe four, don't tell anybody that part. It was win at all costs or do well at all costs or whatever you want to call it. It was like, keep this thing going at all costs. And the, I think the biggest part is I just didn't, I didn't know like back in the day,

like it's weird saying back in the day, cause it makes me feel old. But back in the day, like there wasn't, people didn't talk about blood work. Nobody gives a shit. Like you couldn't, it wasn't until I met John that he was like, hey, are you taking a blood pressure med? Place American health ad right here. Yeah. No, it was, it was interesting.

Cause it, it was Merrick. It's funny that you say that. Cause it was Merrick because I tell this story all the time. I went to a doctor when I was 30. And I think I was weighing like 290 or some shit. And I went for a different reason. But when I was there, he's like, your blood pressure is really high. I'm like, okay. He's like, you have to retire. Did he even check in?

No, he just looked at me. He's like, you're red. Yeah. No. Um, he's like, you're, your blood pressure is really high. I'm like, okay. He's like, and I'm like, I don't know what the fuck that means. I'm like, I don't know anything about like health and I'm just like, how do I get huge? And he's like, you have to retire. I'm like, what? He's like, you have to retire, you're gonna die. He's like, he went way overboard, right? Like now knowing what I know, he went way overboard.

I left that guy's office crying, literally tears. Cause I'm like, I can't fucking retire. I just started. I'm only like, I was just hitting my prime. I'm like, I can't fucking retire. I'm like, fuck that guy. And I didn't think to get a second opinion. I just said, fuck that guy.

And I went about my career. And eight years go by, 10 years go by, and then actually probably seven years go by, 10 years go by, and then actually probably seven years go by, and then they're like, hey, your kidneys are like, starting to look a little fucked up. And I'm like, what do you mean? So I started learning all about kidneys and GFR and creatinine and like the different numbers.

And so I had a good like sports doctor that I was kind of working with in Toronto. And I started to learn a little bit about it. And then I got in contact with the people from Merrick and they were like, hey, let's do these labs because your shit's, you know, it doesn't look right. So I'm like, okay, so we did some labs. We did a whole bunch of different lab markers

and they parse out all the different things. We did some labs, we did a whole bunch of different lab markers and they parse out all the different things. And it's looking to me like the problem came from that one doctor. Well, I can't, I'm not gonna blame my health on that doctor, but this is why I say that. When I'm at Merrick, they're like, look, this is what you have to do A, B and C.

Yeah. You have to take a blood pressure med, you have to do this, you have to do that, it'll help you get through it. When I saw that doctor when I was 30, he told me I had to retire. He didn't just say to me, hey, this looks fucked up,

you should probably be on like a blood pressure med of some sort and that'll probably help you for now, but then you have to make some lifestyle changes, which would probably have been like the right way to say it. Cause when I met John at 34, he was like, hey, you know, a lot of people are on blood pressure meds all the time. Like it's just a preventative thing.

So I blame my health problems all on that one doctor, which I shouldn't, cause they're my fault. But like for those people who don't know, your kidneys are severely affected by your blood pressure. And if you have high blood pressure, that's like the leading cause of kidney damage. So basically what I think to myself is fuck, I went through 10 years of bodybuilding

without knowing with high blood pressure damaging my kidneys. And it wasn't until I got to meet John, who introduced me to Dave Tate, who introduced me to Merrick, where they were like, hey, you know, let's do all these things. So it's been a blessing.

And that's why I work with them now and I try and get other guys on board. Cause I'm like, look, this is a company that's not gonna tell you to retire. They know you're gonna do what you wanna do. They know you're not gonna stop, but they're gonna help you so that you don't end up like me 10 years later going,

fuck, why didn't somebody tell me? So that's also the purpose why I do the podcast, because I'm like, one of the things we talk about all the time on a podcast is getting blood work done. Because we're like, I try and use myself as a guinea pig and say, look, these are the mistakes I made. You can bodybuild, it's probably not the healthiest sport in the fucking world, regardless of how you do it, but you can mitigate some of the issues if you do it this way.

So I've learned a lot along the way, I made a lot of mistakes along the way. So now we try and give back to the younger guys so that they don't make the same mistakes. If you're someone that's taking supplements or vitamins or anything to help move the needle in terms of your health, how do you know you really need them? And the reason why I'm asking you how do you know is because many people don't know their levels of their testosterone, their vitamin D, all these other labs like their thyroid, and they're taking these supplements to help them function at peak performance. But that's why we've partnered with Merrick Health

for such a long time now, because you can get yourself different lab panels like the Power Project Panel, which is a comprehensive set of labs to help you figure out what your different levels are. And when you do figure out what your levels are, you'll be able to work with a patient care coordinator that will give you suggestions

as far as nutrition optimization, supplementation, or if you're someone who's a candidate and it's necessary, hormonal optimization to help move you in the right direction so you're not playing guesswork with your body. Also, if you've already gotten your lab work done but you just want to get a checkup, we also have a checkup panel that's made so that you can check up and make sure that everything is moving in the right direction. If you've already gotten comprehensive lab work done, this is something super important that I've done for myself.

I've had my mom work with Merrick. We've all worked with Merrick just to make sure that we're all moving in the right direction and we're not playing guesswork with our body. Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at MerrickHealth.com slash Power Project. And that checkout enter promo code Power Project to save 10% off any one of these panels or any lab on the entire website.

Links in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. Some people are probably more sensitive to weight gain and blood pressure and all the different, and people might have genetic predispositions, but for the most part, it's probably very difficult to be healthy and be an IFBB pro bodybuilder. Yeah, no, I mean, look, if I had to bet on it, I would be like, you're not doing yourself any,

you're doing yourself a complete disservice by going into bodybuilding if your primary concern is your health. Because even if you took, people are like, oh, the steroids are killing people. I'm like, no, it's not the steroids necessarily. Your body's not meant to be 300 fucking pounds of muscle. It's just not like that in itself.

It's like your heart is not meant to pump blood to 250, 270 pounds of lean muscle tissue. So it's like, it's, I use the analogy of driving a car in first gear and just keeping it in first gear and the RPMs are at 6,000 and you're redlining it all day long. It's just wear and tear. It's just wear and tear. So like, no matter how you slice it, and I think a lot of bodybuilders know this, like they're not stupid.

I think no matter how you slice it, you're taking some years off your life. If you're meant to live to 80, you might make it to 70. If you're meant to live to 70, you might make, like that's kind of how I think a lot of bodybuilders look at it. And I think if you, I think the ones who say they don't look at it that way probably are either lying to you

or they got their head in the sand or they just don't know. But I think a lot of them do know. Any ideas on how some of the most recent people passed away? Not that I want to talk about publicly because it could be politically damaging to me. No, no, I don't know. It just seemed like the bodybuilding's been going on for a long time and like the last, I don't know, maybe eight years or so seems like we've lost us

some high profile bodybuilders. Yeah, I don't know. Listen, I'm not a doctor or pharmacologist. I don't want to speculate about anybody. I had three very close friends with John Meadows, Cedric McMillan and Luke Sandow pass in the last five years, four years. And John was somebody that couldn't know more

about the sport and couldn't know more about the body hardly, right? Right, right. So I don't want to speculate what caused their deaths or what, you know, all I can say for sure is steroid use will accelerate or amplify anything you already have going on in your body. That's my own bro science approach to bodybuilding. When taken to an extreme probably.

Yeah, yeah, I'm not talking about TRT. I'm talking about IFBB pro bodybuilding. Like, you know, when guys lose their hair, for example, they're like, well, the guy lost his hair. Well, he's probably gonna lose his hair anyway. He probably just lost it 10 years sooner. And I look at the whole thing like that. Like whatever is supposed to happen is going to happen sooner because you've just aged your body. So that's kind of my, like I said, bro sciencesciencey way of looking at the entire idea of doing steroids at that level.

When we were in the gym, you were talking about how like you started bodybuilding off of a bet, you know what I mean? And then you started at 20 getting ready for a show and PEDs. But the thing is, is like nowadays, it's not uncommon for guys to start at like 18, 19, 20, right? So with that being said, you did mention obviously blood work is something to take into account, but for the young guys who are just like getting started

and that's what they wanna do, because they see a lot of other people do it, what advice do you have for them just to try to stay as safe as they can, even though it's generally, it's just, I mean, it's not the healthiest thing. You wanna be as healthy as you can be. Right, right. Well, I's not the healthiest thing. You want to be as healthy as you can be. Right, right. Well, I would tell the young guys this.

So blood work is just a snapshot in time. And it's not gonna tell you how bad you're degrading your kidneys right away. It's gonna take five years or 10 years to know what damage you've done. But what I would say to a young guy, if I wanted them to be healthier, is how your blood work

is performing is a direct relation to how your steroid use, your muscle growth, your recovery is all performing at the same time. So like if my blood work's fucked, if my liver enzymes are through the roof, if whatever, if my A1C is my sugar is too high, I'm pre-diabetic, that means my liver's not functioning properly, that means I'm not clearing drugs, that means my liver's not functioning properly. That means I'm not clearing drugs. That means my body's not using the drugs properly. That means my gains are probably shit compared to what they should be.

So what I would tell a young guy is like, look, if you're gonna get blood work done, it's not because you're worried about dying at 40 because they're not thinking that far. But it is the truth that the cleaner your blood work is and the better it looks, the better your gains of muscle are gonna be. So like if you're pounding a thousand milligrams of trend,

which I think is common nowadays, which is terrifying. Really? I've heard kids, yeah. That's like a, that's, so the most I took was 600 and I was on the Olympia stage. There's kids that are like just starting out that they're just doing YouTube channels that are like, I'm taking a thousand milligrams of trend.

And I'm like, I thought 600 was way too much. A long time ago, it used to come in like a 75 milligram. Yeah. And then people were like, yeah, man, you take this two, three times a week and it gives you a crazy bump. Like there's no reason to go more than 150 milligrams. Right, now the one thing I will say is 150 milligrams

of that drug is probably, like I said, this is all just a guess, but I don't think drugs are what they used to be. So I would say like, if you took- Don't make them like they used to. No, I'm just telling you the truth. I'm just telling you the truth. This is not just in my experience.

I agree, I had these ampules of sustenon years ago. They were like Russian or some shit. They were so good. They're called side hoes. Yeah. Yeah. They were unbelievable. Yeah. But 250 foot. I swore by it. I never got so strong.

I was like, I think it was that stuff, man. I went on to their stuff and didn't have the same results. And then even took more of the other stuff and didn't get the same water down. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So, but yeah, but no, they, but yeah, no, I would, if someone's, like I said, taking the thousand milligrams of trend and their blood work is just a fucking

mess and it doesn't have to be a mess because maybe at 20, it doesn't look really bad, but even like I said, like if their liver enzymes are through the roof or whatever, those things can happen pretty acutely. Um, they should understand that that's affecting their recovery growth. or through the roof or whatever, those things can happen pretty acutely. They should understand that that's affecting their recovery growth. You know, everything that goes into bodybuilding, absorbing your nutrients, all of that, is gonna show in your blood work and how perfect it is.

So that would be my hope is that they would go, okay, I need to have clean blood work so that I can put on the muscle I wanna put on. And then if they're continually getting their blood work checked like, you know, twice a year or something like that, then if the trend starts to look horrible, they catch it really early.

So it's just a good practice. It's a good practice to be in, whether you're trying to put on muscle or whether you're trying to catch something before it gets too bad. You know, it's just something I think guys should be doing on a regular basis. in whether you're trying to put on muscle or whether you're trying to catch something before it gets too bad. It's just something I think guys should be doing on a regular basis. Yeah, I think even guys that are natural

would be good to get blood work done and just kind of see where you're at. And who knows, maybe you wanna make a decision at some point to try TRT or to do something different, but it would be super knowledgeable for me to know what was I like before I tried to turn myself into a mutant. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, even for natural guys,

because like, I'll give you an example. My brother was like 39 at the time. He's older than I am. And he came to me and he was like, I just wanna talk to you about how I'm feeling. He's like, I feel, I just want to talk to you about how I'm feeling like he's like you know, I feel like Emotional and I'm moody and I'm like fucking I'm tired all the time and like he started like run down this list of things Right and I'm like you sound like me when I'm off steroids

And he was like, yeah, he's like, I don't know. I'm like, you know what? Maybe she'd go get your test levels checked. So he went got his blood work done. Turns out his test levels were like 50. Oh, whoa. Which is like, gone, right? So his doctor puts him on like 100 milligrams of test a week or something, or 75, something like that. Blood work gets better. He's up in like three, four, or 500 range somewhere in there.

He's like, man, I can't tell you how good I feel. He's like, I feel incredible. He's like, I'm like, I'm not fucking tired anymore. He's like, I'm not moody. He's like, he's been on TRT ever since. So it's like, yeah, there's a lot of things that you can find out from your blood work, whether you're natural or not, you need to be able to see why you're feeling a certain way. I want to mention this too, because like, actually it was like maybe a month ago, I got my blood work done.

I was in the midst of getting ready for some competitions, jujitsu. I was not sleeping that much as much as I usually do. And when I got my blood work done, I'm like, hmm of getting ready for some competitions, jujitsu. I was not sleeping that much as much as I usually do. And when I got my blood work done, I'm like, I'm probably not gonna like the result because my blood work before that, my test was at like 680 something. This time my test was at 529. So the thing is, is I know that that's a snapshot in time.

I know that I'm not getting enough sleep. I wasn't waking up in the morning, would. Like all these things that are general tellers of like me feeling good because I wasn't getting enough sleep, I wasn't waking up in the morning would. Like all these things that are general tellers of like me feeling good because I wasn't getting enough sleep, boom, it's down. But okay, I was like, let me get enough sleep, let me start getting back on the things I need to do. Once I get my blood work done again,

I know it's going to be back to normal. So the reason I'm saying that is like, don't make a decision to start something if that snapshot in time, like if it can be changed by lifestyle. Because that was a situation where your brother had 50 tests, like that's different. 529 to 50, but at the same time I know guys who would like, if they see 500 tests or 530,

they'd be like, oh, it's time to hop on. Right? But it's like, you don't necessarily need to do that. Yeah, I would tell you, I'm at 100 right now. What? Yeah. You're off everything? Yeah. I, off everything? Yeah.

I, so. Everything, everything or everything for a bodybuilder. No. Or like everything for a bodybuilder. I know you don't believe. Smokey and I got some good stories. Everything for a bodybuilder is like 500 tests. No, I'm off everything, everything.

And it's not because I'm like, oh, I want to be super healthy. It's because I don't want to do any more shots. I'm like, I just don't want to do any more shots. So I was telling Steve, uh, I was, I got to a point after retired where I'm like, okay, I'm going to do one shot a week. Like this is going to be my standard. I'll stay there.

It'll make me feel good. And I would load up the syringe and I put it on the table and it would sit there for like two weeks, three weeks, four weeks. I'm like, okay, I'm starting to feel kind of shitty. So the fourth week I would do a shot. Then I would do it again the next month. So what was happening was like, I was doing one shot a month and I was basically just my test levels were going like this. And as I felt them go like this, I'm like, okay, time to do another shot.

And then I noticed like two months would go by. Then I noticed three months would go by and I'm like, why the fuck am I even doing this? So I just stopped. I stopped, I haven't done a shot in like, probably four or five months now. And before that it was like one a month. And I feel great. I know a hundred's below normal.

But you feel great. I feel great. I feel fine, I still train my ass off. I still, Paul, my training partner, I think he takes like 200 milligrams a week or something like that. And he's like doing a TRT dose, well, that's probably higher than TRT, but whatever.

It's bodybuilder TRT, that's what I call it. So, it's close enough. I take TRT and then they're like PrimaBowl and Anubar, like DianaBowl, you're like, well, it sounds like you're going off the path a little bit. But we train and I'm still the same strength, we train together, and I'm like, okay, if my strength is fine, my moods are good, I'm like, well, fuck it, so I just don't.

Do you have any plans, so you just don't, but do you have any plans on, or are you just gonna keep paying attention to your blood work? Because it's actually, I've never heard anybody say that before that, like their test is at that level and they feel good. That's really interesting to me that you feel really good. Are you surprised at all or is it just?

I am surprised because I'm like, why aren't I depressed? Why aren't I crying at movies? Why aren't I like, I just feel like myself, I feel normal. How about your estrogen levels, sorry. I don't remember. I actually, I'm feel like myself, I feel normal. How about your estrogen levels, sorry. I don't remember. I actually, I'm sorry, I don't remember. I have it on my phone, I think, I can check for you, but I don't remember.

Are you doing anything like in supplementation of like a TRT? I'm doing nothing. Nothing, damn. No hormone, anything. It's makes me wonder how much of this, how much of it could be mental when somebody like sees a number and they're like, oh, how much of it could be mental when somebody, like, sees a number and they're like, oh, my test is low, but maybe that amplifies things.

I don't know. It's just that's... I'm still shocked by what you're saying right now. I know it's totally not mental. Okay. So, I will tell you this. If I was to start doing, like, a shot a week right now, I would look totally different. Like, it's not... even if I kept my diet the

same. Yeah. I know I would feel different. I know my training would be different. I would feel a little bit more swollen. I would be like, you could see it right away. Um, but for me, I just don't care cause I'm retired and I'm not looking to show off my physique. So I'm like, what the fuck do I care? I don't give a shit as long as I can train. Cause I, the only thing I really love is training. I don't care about showing off my physique. I just want to be able to work out hard. So as long as I can do that, I'm okay.

So you'd look different. Do you think you'd feel different? Like better or no? No, not better for me. Because what happens to me, so somewhere in the last three or four years, I'm like, oh, you know what? I should really start doing like one shot a week.

This is stupid. Like this whole like, you know, these peaks and valleys of like doing one shot a month is not good. Like it's probably not good for my health. I'm like, I'm going to do one shot a week. So I started doing a shot a week. And I noticed I was just like edgier. I didn't, I wasn't like as calm.

You know, I would snap like my, either if I was getting an argument with my wife or just something like I just felt snappy. I didn't feel like calm and relaxed. And I hate that feeling. Cause I had that feeling for 20 years as a bodybuilder. And I'm like, I don't want to fucking feel like that. So I'd rather be a little smaller, a little weaker,

but be normal 23 hours a day. Cause that's what I tell people is like, oh, do you miss being 300 pounds? Do you miss being on like grams of fucking steroids? I'm like only for the one hour in the gym. Every other aspect of my life sucked. Yeah, but those videos are pretty cool. They are pretty badass.

Your shoulder, your tricep, like everything's got this big old massive shape to it. Yeah, I don't look, like I's got this big old massive crazy shape to it. Yeah. I don't look, like I said, I don't regret anything I did. But when someone says, do you miss? I'm like, no, I experienced it. I did it. And now I'm happy feeling normal.

So well, whatever normal is, but I like being relaxed. If I get an argument with my wife, I'm not like screaming my ass off. I can like, you know, everything's just, everything is just calm. Yeah. So you mentioned for you, like when you were on, that you had a lot of anxiety even going into bodybuilding shows and stuff, right?

Yeah, well, it's kind of like what we're talking about is anytime you talk about somebody on steroids, all you're doing is taking that person and multiplying by 10. So if they're already an angry person, they're the Rory Rage guy. If they're already, if they're a happy person, they're probably happier. If they're a depressed person, they're going to be more depressed. I get these messages from people all the time.

I had a message like two weeks ago from a guy. He was like, my anxiety is bad. And when I'm on steroids, I feel like it's really, really bad. It's crippling. I don't want to leave the house. I'm like, the sport's not for you. I literally told him that. I said, look, man, that's not going to go away.

I mean, you can't win because it's hormonal. I was trying to beat it because I was like, but I was making a living. So I'm like, it's worth trying to beat it, right? So I went and saw a life coach for probably two or three years. Hey, he's kind of like a sports coach, life coach. I'm like, hey, you know, you gotta help me get through this. I'm like, my anxiety is fucking crippling.

I need to be able to like live my life. So we talked and we talked and we talked and you can't beat it because it's hormonal. And you're not, I mean, those talks help me now in life because my mind is sober and I'm not on grams of fucking juice. But at the time, it's not doing anything. So it's like, it's the same thing with anxiety.

If you're an anxious person, it's just gonna multiply it. And if you can't get ahold of it, it's a long fucking life, man. It's a long, like my 20 years, when I look back at it, it was a long, like my wife was very patient. There was a lot of dinners that we got up and left in the middle of dinner. Wow.

The very first date I went on with my wife, we sat down at like a fucking Moxie's or whatever one of these chain restaurants. And halfway through dinner, and it's funny, cause we talked on the phone for a couple of weeks before we went out and I kind of warned her about this. So it went okay.

But we sat down at dinner, we're halfway through dinner and I start sweating. And that's how it showed, like everybody has a tell. For me, my anxiety was sweat. I would just start sweating like as if I was doing cardio. Same here. Yeah.

So I start sweating and I'm like, I look at, it's winter time outside. I'm like, I gotta go outside, man. I can't, this is not gonna stop. She's like, okay, I'll go outside with you. So we go and we stand outside in the fucking snow. And I'm sitting there and like, there's steam coming off my head as I'm trying to cool off. And I was like, okay, this is the, she's the one. Cause the fact that she went outside with me and she was like freezing and I'm fucking like, I'm just like in a t-shirt.

But she's like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm was like, OK, this is the she's the one. Because the fact that she went outside with me and she's like freezing and I'm fucking like, ah, I'm just like in a t-shirt. But the fact that she stuck around after all that, I was like, OK. But she went through that for another fucking 12 years while I tried to compete.

So I mean, if somebody was starting and they had that, I'd be like, you need to think about this because that's not going to fucking go away. So in the same thing, and it's even worse when I get people messaging, they're depressed. They're like, my depression is so bad. I can't get out of bed. I'm like, that's even more fucking scary because now it's like, this person's, I mean, I don't know, what does this lead to?

Does it lead to suicide? Does it lead to like something worse? Like, so people need to think these things through. The drugs are not just gonna affect your kidney and liver and heart. They're gonna affect your fucking brain too. Are you seeing things differently like in general? Like is everything different?

Cause you were saying the advice that you're getting from the life coach didn't like land on you well at the time because it was getting overridden by your hormones. But now when you look back on some of that stuff, do you have a complete different vantage point on that? And a lot of things just moving forward? Yeah, I don't. I think I'm just able to process things better.

I think, but I think a lot of it has to do with the maturity. Like I don't, I put a lot of stock into life experiences and going through things, because I don't think you can just tell somebody, hey, you should feel this way because of this, and they're gonna get it. I think they have to go through the fire

before they're like, oh, okay, I get it now. So I think I had to go through years of anguish before I got to a point now where I'm like, okay, I can be in this crowd of people. I can be like, okay, I'll give you an example. So Steve invites me out for a ride, right? I'll give you a perfect example. When I'm 30 years old, I'm starting to hit my prime.

Jay Cutler goes, hey, Jay Cutler at the time was like Jay Cutler, right? Well, he's still Jay Cutler, but he was like super Jay Cutler. He was like, hey, why don't you come out to my house? We'll train for a little while. You have a lot of potential. It'd be cool.

We'll train for like a week or whatever, and then you can go home. And I was like, I'm not fucking doing that. It's like, there's no fucking way. I'm like, that's the greatest opportunity ever. There's no fucking way I'm going. I'm not going to somebody's house. I don't know.

What are we gonna talk about? How do I have to entertain him? Is he gonna like me? Is he gonna think I'm fucked up? So like, that's the anxiety game, right? You start thinking all these fucking things. And I'm like, I say, no, Jay, I really appreciate it. I just think I'm gonna, I have to stay home.

I made some bullshit fucking excuse and I didn't go. And I've told him about it. He's been on my podcast since. And'm gonna, I have to stay home. I made some bullshit fucking excuse and I didn't go. And I've told him about it. He's been on my podcast since. And I said, I fucked that one up. Because think about the, think about, so that's one small story, but think about all the connections and networking and all the things in life that you miss out on.

Even if they're not work related, just like friends that you could have made that you avoided because of anxiety, right? So that's one example. So fast forward now to 45 years old off steroids. Steve, I meet Steve at the Merrick blood work. I was doing some blood work and Steve was there and he's like, yeah, we talk about motorcycles all the time.

He's like, yeah, I'm going on this ride through the California Hills, blah, blah, blah. We're going to Lake Tahoe. I'm like, oh man, that sounds really awesome. He's like, you should come. My immediate thought was, I'm not fucking going. I don't know these people. So.

So I was like, I try to make an excuse. I'm like, why don't you ask your friends? Maybe they don't want me to come, whatever. And he's like, no, no, they're gonna be fine. I'm like, just ask them, just ask them. Like trying to like kind of back out without backing out. Cause I still want to go, right? So he messaged me, he's like, my friends said it was all good.

He's like, they want you to come. I'm like, fuck. I'm like, awesome, but not awesome. So I'm like, you know what? Fuck this, I'm going, I don't give a shit. And that would have never happened 10 years ago. Because I'm literally going like, I don't really know Steve that much.

We talk a little bit about motorcycles and I don't know any of his friends. So I'm like, it's something that would have never happened 10 years ago and now I'm like, just go, it's gonna be fine. Where I could have never said that to myself. So I think it takes maturity. It's a great guy to break the ice with.

Smokey's like the best in the world, best people person. Yeah. Well, it was, it was like, and his friends were the same. So it was like, but I think, but it's funny. I think that's how any of it would have worked out. Like, cause generally if you get along with someone in some way, you can find some common ground and have a good time. But I think when you're, when you suffer with anxiety, you create these stories in your mind that are complete bullshit.

Like the thing with Jake Cutler. What are we going to talk about? What the fuck do you think we're talking about? Working out, we're going to go train. It's going to be great. But my mind couldn't process it at the time. I was like just too many doubts and fears and whatever. So I think, like I said, it takes the things I learned,

which were your, one of the things I learned, which is you're not that important, which was a tough one because like, like one of the things that you suffer with when anxiety is like everyone's staring at me. And when someone goes, Hey, you're not fucking special. Nobody cares. You're like, Oh yeah, he's right.

Nobody gives a fuck. It's no one cares that you're not doing this next bodybuilding show. Yeah. Nobody gives a shit. Like it's crazy because everybody thinks everybody thinks people care about their problems and they care about how they look and they care. Nobody gives a fuck. They might go

You know that guy's 300 pounds look at he's eating a fucking steak and then they look away and they don't care anymore right, but you don't think of it that way in your own fucking head when you're when you You're an anxious person. I want to have a serious conversation with you about your balls and I'm being serious here on this podcast We talked about a lot of things to help men improve the health of their penis because it's important. And your balls have very thin skin. This is true. You can touch them right now and you know it's pretty thin.

Women do a lot of things to take care of their vaginal health and men, we don't really think about the things that we put right directly on our balls, like our boxers. A lot of popular brands out there have chemicals that are literally touching your balls. Think about this, when you're in the gym sweating, when you're at work sitting, when you're doing all these things,

these things could be permeating into your scrotum. Things like BPA, phthalates, pesticides, incesticides, toxic dyes, toxic fertilizers, formaldehyde, all of which could lead to and could exacerbate lower testosterone, erectile dysfunction, and potential infertility. That's why I've partnered with NADS. And NADS is made with 100% organic cotton and no toxic dyes. So instead of putting just anything on your manhood, it's a good idea to get your hands on some NADS.

And Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at nadsunder.com. That's N-A-D-S under.com. And at checkout enter promo code power project to save 15% off your entire order. Again, that's at nadsunder.com. Links in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. What does it take to get to the level that you got to? When you look at it now, does it seem like,

do you have like a different perspective on it than you did while you were doing it? Cause I think sometimes when you're at it now, does it seem like, do you have like a different perspective on it than you did while you were doing it? Cause I think sometimes when you're in the mix and you're trying to make something of yourself, your mindset is just different and it's kind of hard to look back. And it's kind of hard to illustrate or communicate, what it really takes to be that high level

of a professional in bodybuilding. I think it takes, the main thing I would say is it takes a drive to ignore everything in your life, which is totally counterintuitive to what people want to be doing. But I'll give you an example. At 20 years old, between age 20 and 30, before my wife had a girlfriend

that I was with for six or seven years. And then I met my wife probably five or six years, maybe four or five years into that relationship as well. At any point in those 12 years or whatever, had they said, hey, I think you need to stop. I'd be like, I'm leaving without even thinking about it. Like, I'm out, see you later. It was like that job I told you about.

And I had a great job and they were like, you gotta pick, you gonna do this job or you gonna bodybuild? I'm like, fuck you, I'm outta here. Like nothing could have stopped me, nothing. And I actually pigeonholed myself that way on purpose because I was like, I was in school, I want to be a police officer.

And I'm like, I'm not gonna finish. And then I had a job and they're like, I was in school, I want to be a police officer. And I'm like, I'm not going to finish. And then I had a job and they're like, you got to leave. And I'm like, okay, I'm leaving. And then I had another job and I left that job. And I'm like, I literally closed all the doors. And I was like, there's this one path. So I think to get to that level where you're on the world stage where you're making money and you're at that, you need to, it's so fucking cliche.

It's like, don't have a plan B. I'm like, you can have a plan B. You can go to school, you can like get your degree, whatever, you can do all that. I think that's probably a mistake I made was not finishing school. But I think you have to have this like unwavering passion for it.

You know, like you said, you do jujitsu. Yeah. The guys who get the best, the fastest are the guys that are there all fucking day long. of this unwavering passion for it. Like you said, you do jujitsu. The guys who get the best, the fastest, are the guys that are there all fucking day long. And they're like, I'm here. I'm here, I'm gonna learn everything you tell me. I'm gonna get my ass kicked every day until I'm the best. It's like, that's kind of how bodybuilding,

I think that's how anything is really, if you wanna be the best at it. So that's, I think the main component is to have this unwavering passion to not necessarily be the greatest, but at least see your vision through. Right, like this is what I see, this is what I think I can be. No one's getting in the way of this.

That's like the first and foremost. And then I think to really, really be good, the second thing is the ability to learn. Because I think if you are stubborn, which I was early in my career, probably for the first five, maybe even 10 years, if you're stubborn, you can probably still get far, but you get further if you have an open mind

and you're willing to learn. So that was something I learned in my 30s, again, comes kind of with age, right? So those two things are at the top of the list. And then I don't wanna say they're at the top of the list cause you have the genetic component. If you don't have the genetics, you don't have the genetics. That's all we're stuck into it. And I think people have a hard time saying that to people.

Like, oh no, you can do it with enough hard work. I'm like, no, you can't. No, you can't. There are some of you that are going to work 10 times harder than I did and not going to make it. And that's just the way it is. It's like you see guys like Phil or Jay or Ronnie, and you look at them when they were fucking 19 and they look, they're just a smaller version of the Mr. Olympia that they became. So I think it's hard to say this to people. You know, somebody asked me about this guy that was on stage once.

We were sitting in the front row, we're watching this bodybuilding show and this guy's on stage and his friend was sitting next to me and he says, hey, what do you think he needs to do to be better? And I'm like, he needs to retire, which is, listen, it's an asshole comment, but where I am in my life and I know what bodybuilding

can do to you health-wise, I'm like, you can see somebody at an amateur level and just go, that guy's never going to make it. And if he does make it, it's probably not going to pan out into a meaningful career where you can make money. There's a flip side of my brain that's like, always chase your dream though. No matter what it is, chase your dream.

But when I think when it affects your health, you have to really weigh out like, can I turn pro? Am I gonna be a good pro? Am I gonna be able to make money? Or is this just something that I'm, is gonna be damaging to me one day? So there's a few facets that go into, and if that's too harsh for people, I apologize. I probably wouldn't have said that to you 10 years ago,

but knowing what can happen physically and health-wise, unless that person has a very, very clear vision, like, hey, I know this is gonna hurt me and I don't care, then that's up to you, it's your life, you do what you want. But if the person's not thinking that way and they have no, you know, they have like narrow shoulders, wide waists, wide stomach, and they just started last year.

I'm like, okay, you're already way behind the eight ball. Like you need to consider those things because they do matter. Right? I think that's a conversation that a lot of people don't want to have. They just, everybody wants to have the work hard, rah rah rah, but it's like, no, there's a component to this that you have to have built in already. I think that's where it's like, it's a different time now,

because for example, Sam Sulek, I don't think he's ever done a show, right? Right, but he's, I know he's an anomaly in the term of like, just the way he's been able to grow, but still he's never done a show and look where he is. Now he does have a good physique, but you see a lot of other people that are fitness influencers,

and they love to lift and they love to make content, but they're able to make a living from that, even though they would never be a pro bodybuilder. Right. So it's pretty cool that that's possible. I think that's great. And I think those people that look at their genetics and go, okay, I can't be Mr. Olympia,

or I can't even make a living as a pro, but I have great training information. I am funny or I have good cooking videos or whatever the thing you're niche. I think it's awesome that those people, because I didn't, when I started, I didn't have an avenue. It was like, if I want to make money as a bodybuilder, I got to get on stage. I got to get a sponsorship. That's it.

Now you could have like a semi good physique and be like, you know what? I'm just going to display it my way. Maybe I have horrible legs so I can never be Mr. Olympia. You know what? I'm going to do all my videos wearing pants. So there's like, I think it's great. I think, I think the social media age has some negatives to it, but I think the fact that people can make a living

doing what they love is fucking awesome. It's just competing is not for everybody. Have you seen anybody that you were close with navigate bodybuilding in a different way where they didn't have to struggle, where they didn't just maybe, maybe it didn't come easier to them, but they made it seem that way.

They were kind of like, yeah, just, they just kind of strolled in and kicked everyone's ass in a competition and seemed to be happy and balanced in their life. No. No, the short answer is no. You know what, it's funny. I'm trying to think about all the different bodybuilders

I know, and obviously some of them I don't know personally, but every single bodybuilder I know that I can think of off the top of my head right now, has had a struggle in some way or other. Whether it be health, whether it be mental, whether it be financial, whether like there's always some struggle somewhere, nobody gets away scot-free.

The closest person I can think of, but I don't know him intimately enough to be able to tell you for sure is Jay. Jay, John Meadows used to always say, Jay has the blueprint. Jay has the blueprint for every bodybuilder. Everybody should be like Jay. And if you look at it from the outside in, like I said, I don't know Jay, like on a really serious personal level, so I can't say like to his mental struggles or anything like that. But Jay has made every right move a bodybuilder can make. Started young, made good money, did very useful things with his money,

met all the right people, did a lot of networking, was able to meet fans and stand in lines for, he knew he had the wherewithal to know at a young age, I'm going to stand in this line for four hours. Whereas a lot of bodybuilders are like, oh, my time's up, I'm out of here. Like he had the wherewithal to know like, what shows to do, what contracts to sign, you know,

how to treat fans. And even, that's why you see him now, even 10 years or 15 years into his retirement, he's still just as popular as he always was. Cause he knows exactly, oh, I got to do the YouTube thing. Oh, I got to do a podcast. Oh, I got to, he keeps changing with the times and it keeps him relevant.

And when I think of struggles, I can't, I know he obviously had struggles for sure. Everybody does, but I can't see any. He was built with, like he was born with great genetics. I know he didn't come from money, but he was born with great genetics and he was able to make good money bodybuilding, put it to good use and navigate the space

effectively all the way through. Something he said when he was on our podcast is that at the time when he was young, he kind of hated his childhood. He like resented it because he felt like he was in prison because he worked for the family construction business and so on. And he just talked about how crazy that was and how hard that was. And I was like, how interesting you escaped from that prison and put yourself in your

own. Yeah, but it's his choice. Right. Right. It's the person he chose to be. And I think that that is why he might be a person that comes to mind that has that thought process because I think he just really loved it. Yeah.

I think he just legitimately, where one guy is like, oh, I got, you know, I have to do legs today and this is gonna suck. And I think he really, he loved bleeding on the mirror and sweating and going crazy. No, it's interesting you say that,

because I think you can love all of it or you can love some of it and that's what keeps you involved. Like if when I talked to Branch Warren on the podcast, for example, he's like, I didn't like competing. He's like, I love training. You could tell he loved training, right? But that's kind of how I was.

I'm like, I don't really want to go on stage, but I will because I love training and I want to make money at this. Now, don't get me wrong. I enjoyed competing and I like, when I think back about it, I'm like, some of my fondest memories are like being on stage and stuff.

But that's not what drew me to bodybuilding. It was the hour and the day that was by myself that was like my love for it. Whereas what you're saying with Jay is, I think he loves all of it. He loves every aspect of it. Like maybe that's why he's able to navigate it such a, or what appears to be, uh, struggle-less, I guess. Yeah.

By the way, how old were you when you started training? Cause I know you started, you decided to compete at 20, but were you training years before that? I only was doing like some circuit workouts, some cardio. I was like, I was like 130 pounds in grade 10 and then grade 11, I was 230 pounds. I like gained like a hundred pounds like in a fucking year. A lot of it was muscle? You didn't just get- No, it was fat.

Oh! No, it was both. My entire family is like broad-shouldered, like thicker guys. So I wasn't like a slob, but I was like... I was definitely had fat on me. Like I played defensive line and football and... But, and I think it came from working at a pizzeria.

I was like, probably eating a little too much pizza. And they had these... I'm going to go off on a tangent, but they had these dinner rolls. So I was working at the pizza oven and over to the right, they had these pizza rolls and the meat sauce for the pasta right next to them. So every time I had like a five minute break, I would walk over and take a dinner roll and dip it in the meat sauce. So I think I was fucking pounding way too much food. But anyway, so I put on like a hundred pounds and uh, I think in like grade 12, I was like, I had, I met a girl and we were dating and I'm like,

I'm fucking fat, why is this girl dating me? So I'm like, I better get in shape. So I started doing like just circuit training and cardio. I was in a lot of skipping and stuff. And I got down to like 180, 190 pounds. I felt really good about the way I looked. I had like a men's health. I used to read men's health. I remember seeing a flex magazine with Dor the way I looked. I had like a men's health. I used to read men's health.

I remember seeing a flex magazine with Dorian Aides on the cover next to the men's health. And I specifically remember picking up going, this is fucking gross. So, that's way too much. Yeah, I'm like, this is fucking disgusting. So anyway, fast forward two years later, I'm like trying to do that, right?

But no, I was just like men's health cardio guy. And then when I went to the show, I was like, okay, maybe this is what I wanna do. And I decided to try it out. How in the world did you start to stack on so much muscle? What are some key factors? People are gonna hate me for saying this, but I ate like a fucking pig.

I probably did, looking back at it, when we were talking about changing things, I probably didn't have to do that. There's probably better ways to put on muscle. But I do believe that you have to get a little bit fat to put on muscle. Like when guys stay, I saw so many guys in my career stay lean and never really grow.

They're like, I wanna stay lean in the off season. And I'm like, all right. And they'd show up to stage the next year, two pounds heavier. I'm like, you know, you're going to be a middle weight forever, right? And they just didn't, they couldn't, they couldn't handle looking in the mirror

and not being able to see their abs or whatever. And I'm like, it's just, and I'm not saying you have to get fat, but I remember John Jewitt put it best. He said, you should be at the body fat percentage that you perform at best, under 15%. So he's like, if you perform really, really well at 8%, stay at 8%, if you're like your gym performance,

like your lifting, your pumps, all that. He's like, if you perform well at 13, then go to 13. But you have to, wherever your performance is best, that's where you should be, but that's something I didn't do. So my formula was, I'm gonna overdo everything, which also probably led to some of my health issues later in life, because it was so brutal, man. I'm embarrassed to say it.

Like my first year, my carbs came from like Chef Boyardee and my meat proteins were from like frozen, Hungry Man dinners. Like, I'm like, oh, this is a steak. It's a steak, they're all steak. Like it's not a fucking steak, it's bullshit. And I'm like, I'm eating this and I'm counting the 20 grams of protein from it.

So I learned a lot going through it, but you know, the thing is when you start, you're so fresh that you can kind of get away with that stuff and still put on muscle. So I continued to be the guy that would bulk. But, and I always, and I still do believe in that, but I changed though, as the years went on, I would start to go, oh, okay,

I learned that real protein didn't come from a fucking Hungry Man dinner, it came from a real steak. Real carbs were, these are your real carbs, you know, steak or a potato, sweet potato, whatever, whatever, whatever. So I started to refine things until finally, five years later, say, I had put on 10 pounds of muscle a year

for those five years. So it wasn't like it didn't work. I probably just got fatter than I need to be and maybe affected my health long-term. But I continued to bulk, I just continued to bulk with cleaner foods. So that was my, that was kind of my formula for growth. So would you say that like the quote main gaining approach

is not the best approach if you're trying to gain? You're trying to get me in trouble on purpose. No, not. Yeah. Greg, if you're watching, I know you're going to make a video about this. I don't think that's the right approach. Well, I shouldn't say that. I actually agree with John Dewey.

I actually agree with John Dewey. I don't think, you know, one of the nice things about doing a podcast for three or four years, and I'm sure you've experienced this, is you learn to talk to, you talk to people that are a lot smarter than you are. And people like John DeWitt or, you know, I've had a number of people on like Brad Schoenfeld and like just people that are very intelligent, you know, Chris Tuttle, just people that know a lot more than I do.

So if you asked me a year ago, I would say, main gaining is bullshit. I said, it doesn't work. But now after talking to more and more and more people, and especially John Jewett's point, making the most sense to me is, if you can stay lean, 8%, whatever it is, and you can still squat the same amount as if you were 15%,

or you still get the same pumps, I'm not all the way to saying it's as effective. I still think you need a good surplus of calories, but I think that's my thought process now. So, you know, Greg's model, the main gaining thing is like 500 calories, a 500 calorie surplus. I don't think that's wrong.

I mean, you're still on a surplus. I would just go a little bit further just to make sure, cause I'm always of the mindset that I want to make sure all my bases are covered. So if I go to a thousand calories, then I'm like, okay, I'm definitely covered. And then if I start to get too fat, I can always pull back a little bit, right?

So that's kind of my, more my process. Do you think it's just like a time thing? Like with a 500 calorie surplus, you might not see anything within like two years, but then if you do, if you were to do a thousand calories, maybe within a year, you might start to notice. I don't know. You know, theoretically it doesn't make sense because if you're in a surplus, you're in a surplus and your body's gaining as much muscle as it can at that rate. So if I'm at a thousand calories, maybe I'm gaining more fat, but I feel like your calorie requirements

are different every day. So let's say one day you do the math and you're like, okay, I can eat 3000 calories. But that day you went to the mall with your girlfriend and you walked around for three fucking hours. You're like, but you only eat the 3000 calories. Well, now I'm short. So I feel like if I give myself enough surplus, then I don't have to worry about ever being,

ever thinking I didn't eat enough. So then are calories bullshit? Don't get me in more trouble. Fucking Jesus. No, actually they're not. I actually... Yeah, I know, right? 18 videos are going to be made after this. No, I think calories are a good gauge of...

Look, I never planned my diets by calorie. I planned them by macros. So I would say, and a lot of people are gonna think this is too much, but I would say, because if you're on gear, I feel like your requirements are different. So I would say I need a gram and a half to two grams per pound for protein.

I need two to three grams for carbs per pound. And I need about 0.35 to 0.75 grams of fat per pound. I took those numbers, I plugged them into my body weight, that's what I ate. And then I never really fucked with the protein, I would play with the carbs if I wanted to, if I felt like my pumps weren't as good, or if like I was getting too fat,

those carb numbers would go up or down, depending on how my body looked. That was my system. So I didn't really care about calories as much as I cared about my macros. So then you were eating like somewhere around 600, uh, 600 grams of carbs, right? If you were between six and eight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. You know, people, uh,

people want to make stuff more complicated than it is. If you, if you just simply, you know, if you worked on gaining weight, right, you know, and we fast forward three weeks from now, you would feel a lot stronger in the gym. We know that you can do a lot of stuff without carbs, and you can do stuff really low carb, and people can go keto, but you're gonna work out better with some carbs in your system.

Eat carbs for two or three days, eat some pizza maybe, go work out, and you're gonna feel more full. The pumps are probably gonna be better. So what are some of your thoughts on some of the, when you see the diet gurus and you see the different diets kind of floating around, are you kind of like, eh, like bodybuilding's tried and true

and more people should probably stick with that? Well, I'll tell you, it depends on who you're talking about. That's one thing I've learned to really parse out when making comments online, because if you make a general comment, you don't know who the fucking person on the other side watching is. So like this guy that weighs 300 pounds and he's fat

and he's just trying to lose weight, you're not gonna be like, go eat three grams of carbs a day and a gram of fat. And like, you know, like that's not the right diet for that guy. So this, what I've learned to do is when you talk about this type of thing, you have to really be specific about who you're talking about. So if I'm talking about the average person that wants to lose weight, wants to look good and isn't too concerned with putting on a ton of muscle,

I kind of become a proponent of the carnivore diet or a version of it because I kind of like the carnivore diet plus vegetables. So I think some people call it ketivore, something like that. So I would be like, that's something really that I see out there that I really like. I like that it's curing a lot of people's ailments. I like that it's helping them lose weight. I like that people feel good on it. I's like, I haven't really seen too many negatives about it yet, except maybe triglycerides are too high,

but the overall cholesterol ratio is better. So you have to take that in consideration. So that's one that I really like. I'm not a big fan of the keto diet itself because I feel like it's too many ways to trick it, I guess, because you're like, I'm just gonna eat a lot of cheese today. You know, like it's not, that's great. You're still doing keto, but you just ate a brick of cheese.

Like, so it's like, I don't know if that's, you know, if that's really my way. I don't like the no fat diet. Cause I feel like that fucks with your sexual hormones. It fucks with like just everything. You don't sleep as well. Like there's so many things that happen. A lot of times that's what bodybuilders will do

is they'll lower their fat quite a bit. Not zero, but they'll bring it down considerably. That's why I was lucky to work with John because John was a proponent of like a moderate fat diet. And I learned a lot from that. Some of my best gains, we just said two to three grams a pound per pound of carbs. Some of my best gains came at a gram, but I was doing two grams or sorry

I was doing a gram of fat as well. So it was like I was eating a lot of fat So I didn't have to eat as many carbs and I felt incredible So there's a number of ways to skin a cat. So it really depends on who you're talking about And it also depends on what you can sustain Some guys do like a moderate fat diet and they're like, oh, I feel like shit, I can't process my food. I can't, it's not digesting well. And then some guys do a super high carb diet.

And they're like, I'm moody all the time. I'm fucking tired. I'm like, so it just depends on the person. There's no one diet that fits everybody. There's no, and this is, like I said, it's from learning, it's from being on the podcast and learning from everybody what they're doing,

because you start to learn what they can and can't do, and you're like, oh, you know what? There's no cookie cutter, this works for everybody diet. And they all have their pros and cons. Bodybuilders tend to eat more frequently. Some people that fast or do carnivore, I personally do like a carnivore-ish style diet, keto-ish style diet, and I fast

and that way I don't have to carry around Tupperware with me. But that's easier for me. Like I'm not doing it because it's harder. I know how hard a bodybuilding diet can be, even though I only did one show. I understand how difficult it can be. And for me to try to manage the fat calories strictly while also eating carbs, I'm not going to do a good job of that.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I just did a carnivore stint. It was like six, seven weeks before the Iron Classic. I lost 30 pounds. I never felt better in my life. My productivity went through the roof. I was sleeping like a baby.

I'm talking like dreaming every night, not nightmares, dreams. And I'm waking up feeling great. I'm like, and I'm like, I'm waking up feeling great. I'm like, this is the best diet. And then I started eating pizza again. And then I forgot about the diet, but I want to go back to it eventually. Once I like your strategy, there's been a lot of pizza talks.

What's your favorite kind of pizza? You got like particular, and have you ever had a fried calzone by the way? Yeah, I have. Oh my God. Calzone is the same thing as like a Panzerati, no? Yeah. Yeah, I've had one. Yeah. Yeah,'s the same thing as like a panzerotti, no? Yeah.

Yeah, I find one, yeah. Yeah, but I thought that's a new one for me. Yeah, like I was in New York and this is like, I don't know, this is maybe like 10 years ago or something. And I asked for a calzone and they're like, would you like it fried? And I was like, yeah. I thought that's, oh yeah.

I've never had it fried before. I was like, that sounds amazing. What do you mean? Like the calzone is made, then they dip it in oil? Yeah, that's how we used to do it. The Panzerati is the same. Like we used to... I was like, how fast is everyone on the East Coast?

Fuck, man. Dude, look at that. Oh my goodness. That's it. Yeah, we used to make those. I woke up in a new Panzerati. It's just the... It's just the pizza folded over on itself.

That's all it is. Pretty much. And then fried. Oh, by the way, if you're in SAC, you can always door dash or go to this place called Calzone Life. They have pretty good calzones. You can pick all the meats you want. Calzone Life?

Why don't you tell me that on Friday when I got here. I like how every time pizza comes up, somebody looks at Smokey. Yeah. Yeah, that New York style pizza, kind of like thinnish crust. That's my favorite. People say pizza's overrated, but I disagree. Maybe under, right? Yeah, it's dangerous though, Doug.

Whenever I get on a pizza, they're like, I'm up seven pounds in a week quick. It's not, it's fuck. Because yeah, once you get it, then you have to have it again. It's a little rough. Going on the other side real quick, do you know of any bodybuilders,

and you don't need to name names, but do you see bodybuilders using Ozempic to make preps easier these days? I've heard rumors of that, but. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't think I talked to much of the new crop enough to know if they are, but I don't think they would, because it's not beneficial.

I tried it once. Okay. I ate right through it. Like it didn't stop me from eating. Really? Yeah, I was like, fuck this because it's not beneficial. I tried it once. Okay. I ate right through it. Like it didn't stop me from eating it. Really? Yeah, I was like, fuck this, I'm still hungry. I'm just not doing anything. Wow.

But no, I just, I can't see it making sense because it's supposed to make you not want to eat. Yeah. Which is not what bodybuilders are doing. So I can't see, I don't know, maybe bikini girls are doing it. Maybe people who don't need to eat that many calories. I don't know, but I think bodybuilders are taking in five,

6,000 calories a day. There's no fucking way. But in a prep, that's what I mean. Like in a prep when you had to bring those calories down, you think that. Yeah, but even if calories, like even when bodybuilders bring calories down, it's still like, depending on the size of them, obviously,

there's still a four, 3,000 calories. It's not like they're eating like a thousand calories, right? Because my brother did it for, I don't know, three months. He lost like 20 pounds, but he was like, I'm not fucking hungry. I don't want to eat anything. And when he did eat, it was like a plate of food this big. And he was having trouble drinking water.

Like it made him fucking nauseous. So I can't imagine being a bodybuilder and having to get your meals in and being nauseous all the time. I'm like, I don't know if anybody's using it, but I wouldn't. What are some things you did when you were in prep to try to distract yourself?

I know cardio obviously is good, hanging out in the gym's not a bad idea. Yeah. I watched a lot of TV, man. I don't have any good answers for you. There was a lot of hunger. There's a lot of crystal light drinking. There's a lot of diet pop.

Maybe gum. Gum, but gum, the calories add up whereas diet Coke is zero. You can drink as many diet Cokes as you want. Actually, I used to do this carbonated water, which made me feel better than drinking pop. There was a carbonated water and the carbonation would fill you up.

Or like I said, crystal light was a main one I and the carbonation would fill you up. Or like I said, crystal light was a main one I used to use that would fill me up. But there's no, if I was starving, starving, I remember doing this at like two in the morning one time. I got in my car and I went for a drive. I'm just, I'm like driving around two in the morning aimlessly and I ended up seeing a pizza pizza. I knew this was gonna end with pizza.

But it was closed, so I didn't have to worry. But I pulled, this is how fucking hungry I was. I pulled my car up to the fucking curb so I could see the menu. And I was looking at the menu, nowhere to lie. I sat there and I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? It's two in the morning. I just fucking reversed and got out of there. But there's no good answer.

I get this question all the time. What are you doing prep when you're hungry? I'm like, drink a lot of fucking water, carbonated water. I actually didn't drink that much Diet Coke because at the time I didn't think it was a good idea. But I did a lot of carbonated water. I did a lot of crystal light. I don't have any good answers for it.

You're like, mm, EAAs. Yeah. Delicious. Apple cider vinegar is great. But even the EAA thing though, like, you know, people say that, like, oh, I just chug EAAs, it fills me. There's calories. That's not free. In Canada, there's calories.

Not here in the United States. Yeah, but no, it's never been a question I've been able to answer because there's no good answer. I remember waking up, honestly, middle of the night, and I'm just going through my cupboards. I'm like, what can I eat that doesn't have any calories? And there's no such thing, but I would do it anyways. I mean, like opening the cupboard, open the fridge.

I remember one time I was working with Dennis James and it was like two in the afternoon. I was like, I've never been so hungry in my life. I call him, I'm like, Dennis, I'm gonna break. I'm fucking starving. I gotta eat something. He's like, don't do it. I'm like, okay.

So I get in my car. I go for a drive. I call him. I'm like, I'm gonna fucking snap. I'm starving. He's like, eat some lettuce. I go, okay. So I went home.

I did. I got some lettuce. I went home. I made a plate of fucking lettuce, and I squirted mustard all over it, and I ate that, and it was the most delicious part of the lettuce. And that was, but it helped. But those things like, just, what's lettuce?

It's like just fucking water, right? And mustard is nothing. That kind of, those little stupid tricks kind of like get you through when you're like in a serious, serious like crunch. But I never cheated. I would just fucking grin and bear it like just it sucks. I'm starving.

Yeah, there's nothing there's nothing you can do. There's no real tricks to avoid it. You're going to get hungry. You're going to suffer if you want to get peeled and you're not genetically predisposed to it. You're going gonna fucking suffer. It's gonna be shit. The last four weeks is the worst.

I know you said your piece a bunch on this and there was a lot of back and forth on the internet about your relationship with Sam Solik with you having him under contract. And some people were saying that you and or your company was too demanding or trying too controlling. Do you have anything to kind of add to some of that?

I saw that a bunch of people made a bunch of different videos on that. And why did these rumors start? Why do people try to make a villain? I'll tell you why. I just want to add one thing real quick. Just when I saw some of that stuff pop up, I'm like, there's contracts amongst businesses.

That's how you get sponsored. When you get sponsored, you're kind of working for somebody. Right. Well, yeah, I mean, let's, before I try and tell you what happened, let's go back and just say, when a contract is given, everybody knows what's going on.

There's no trickery. Like, here's the contract, here's what's in it, here's your responsibilities, here's my responsibilities. There's no like small print that nobody can see. So even if those things were true and I signed him and said, you're exclusive to my channel only, that would be in my right, cause he signed it. But it's not true.

But if it was true, I wouldn't care. I'd be like, yeah, that's my deal. It's exclusive. But here's the truth. So I had a couple athletes signed back in the day, a couple of years ago. And I had a clause in the contract that read, you can't start your own podcast

and you can't be on a weekly podcast, but you can go on other podcasts. Now, the reason I did that is because I had a weekly podcast and I'm paying these athletes to be on my podcast. So if I have a weekly podcast and then you go on another weekly podcast every week, to me it's overexposure and nobody wants to hear you anymore on my podcast. So it wasn't a deal in the contract that they couldn't go

on a podcast, it was that they couldn't start a weekly podcast. That got blown up into something different, which was, Fouad doesn't let his athletes go on other podcasts, period. Which is not true because if you look, Samson's been on a lot of podcasts. When Nick Walker was with us, he was on a couple of podcasts, a bunch of different podcasts. I've never stopped anybody from being on other podcasts. So this rumor kept growing.

So then Sam comes along and everybody's asking Sam to be on their podcast and he was on mine. Now, I'll tell you this, Sam doesn't love being on podcasts because even mine, he only went on a couple of times. He didn't wanna be on like more than that. And the one time was just because he loves Lee Priest. And I said, hey, I'll have Lee Priest on, you can meet him on the podcast.

So he like wanted to do it. So now this rumor has swelled and because Sam won't respond to anybody about their podcasts, people are like, well, it must be Fooad's fault. I'm like, I can't. You know, I'll tell you a story. I offered him, well, I didn't offer him.

It was offered to me because he hadn't responded to the person. Somebody messaged me and said, hey, there's this really monstrous podcast that wants to have Sam on. Do you think he'll go on? I said, I don't know. I'll ask him. I call him and I say, hey, this podcast wants to have me on. Do you want to do it or not?

I don't think I really want to do it. I just want to train or whatever. He just wants to keep to himself. I mean, he's just a kid who wants to work out. I said, okay. So I called the guy back. I said, he didn't want to do it. So I'm presenting these offers when they,

because people are messaging me because he's not responding. So I'm almost acting like his agent in a way. So people are contacting me and I'm just relaying the information. And so this thing starts to grow that he's not allowed. And it's like, he's totally fucking allowed. He just wants to work out, man.

He doesn't want to be bothered with all this other shit. It's just who he is, man. He loves to train. He loves to like do his own thing. He's not disrespecting anybody by not going on. He's just like, it's not... I'm not interested. And he has like four million subscribers. Yeah, what do you think?

This is... Sorry, before we go on, this is the other thing. The funniest part is when I see a podcast that has like a hundred subscribers and they're blaming me, I'm like, dude, you have a hundred fucking subscribers and five people watch your last podcast. This guy's got four million fucking followers. Why would he, why would it be my fault? So it's like, no offense to people out there with small podcasts, but like it just, if he's got a platform that big, he also is doing the calculation in his mind.

Like is this going to benefit me or is it not? Like I don't know. Like I don't know how he processes. I just say, look, here's what someone said to me. Do you want to do it it not? Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know how he processes. I just say, look, here's what someone said to me. Do you want to do it or not? And he'll say, I'm interested or not. That's all. That's all there is to it.

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in the game, hostage tape. If you have a beard, it's gonna stay on. If you have a CPAP, it's gonna stay on. This tape is not gonna fall off your mouth like most other tapes do when you're asleep. And to enhance the way you breathe through your nose, they also have no strips. Head over to hostagetape.com slash power project

where you can get a three month supply of hostage tape for only 65 cents a night. On top of that, you're gonna receive a free pack of no strips as well as a bedside tin. Again, that's at hostagetape.com slash power project. Links in the description as well as the podcast show notes. What made you become aware of him? It's a really funny story

cause this is the benefit of reading your comments. So I like to stay in touch with my followers, I guess with the podcast. Like I try and go into the, when I have time, I go into the comment section, I'll comment back or debate or whatever with people in the comment section. And I read one comment, they were like, you should check out the Sam Sulek kit.

I was like, who the fuck is this? So I go on his Instagram and I see he's got one post and 50,000 followers. I'm like, this has got to be fake. I'm like, what the fuck is this? So I go to YouTube and I type in Sam Sulek and he's got, I don't know, a hundred and I think he had a hundred thousand subscribers or something like that. I can't remember what it was, something around there.

And every video had like 50 to 60,000 views. And I'm like, so I watched a couple of them, like this kid's just fucking working out. What is he getting all the nights? And then I'm like, maybe he's buying his fucking views. So I read his comments, but he's got like, you know, like you can tell somebody's buying their views if they have like 50,000 views

and then they have like three comments. Yeah. So I look, he's got like a thousand comments and I'm like, this is legit. So then I look on TikTok and then I'm like, okay, now I see where it came from because he was the biggest there at the time. And then I'm like, he's got a killer physique

and his bodybuilding videos were bodybuilding videos. He wasn't just like an influencer. So I'm like, okay, this actually fits physique and his bodybuilding videos were bodybuilding videos. He wasn't just like an influencer. So I'm like, okay, this actually fits our brand. Like we're a bodybuilding company. He's like a real bodybuilder. He doesn't compete yet, but he has like the bodybuilder mentality. I'm like, this would be a good fit for us.

So I DM him. He doesn't respond. I'm like, fuck. So I DM him again, no response. I'm like, fuck. So I DM him again, no response. I'm like, fuck. So then I go, I look at his followers. I'm like, who's he following? He's following like 10 people at the time, I think.

But one of them was Milos. So I reach out to Milos. I'm like, hey Milos, this kid's following you. He's gonna see your message. Shoot him a message for me and let him know, I'm interested. So he shoots him a message and he gets back to me. So I call him, we talk and I'm like, hey,

I'm really interested, you have a great physique, I'd like to partner up and see where this goes. So we talked a bit more than I met him at the gym. We worked out and, uh, offer him a contract and he signed it and he's happy to sign it. He, you know, obviously he looked it over and like took his time and everything. He was happy to sign it. We worked out a good deal and he came on board. And then after he came on board and I announced him, I don't know if one thing led to, I don't know if it was a chicken or the egg or whatever, but all

of a sudden he's got 300,000 subscribers, 500,000 subscribers, a million subscribers, two millions. It just kept going. And I'm like, holy fuck. When I signed him, he had, when we finally did the contract and it was done, he had 250,000 subscribers, I think, or something like that. And then all of a sudden he just went, like through the roof.

And I'm like, this is incredible. And you've run some events with him and stuff before. Have you ever seen anything like that? The response like that for other people in this bodybuilding or fitness? Chris Bumpstead is the only one that comes to mind. I've never seen anything like it. I've never, like the first appearance we did,

I've never seen so many people at a bodybuilding event before in my life, like just for one person. Never. And the response to not just, not just the never as in like, but the response from the people was like they were meeting a rock star. I could not believe what I was seeing. And then Sam, I don't know, he's just got something like he's just got this fucking work ethic, you know, like that first appearance, well, he did just got something, like he's just got this fucking work ethic. You know, like that first appearance, well, he did it multiple times, but the first appearance he did, shocked me so much because I'd never seen it before.

He stood there and met people for eight fucking hours. We went three hours past the time we allotted. He met every single person in that fucking line. Some of them went back and waited again to meet him twice. Wow. And he kept the same energy from noon when we started to eight o'clock at night, smile, happy. He wasn't like run down and tired. Like he took one piss and he had a bite of a sandwich

in that fucking eight hours. I'm like, I'd never seen- City fast. Yeah. I've never seen anything like it. I was like, you know, he's a good kid, man. And he works really fucking hard. You know, when I see videos about him,

oh, Sam did this and Sam did that. It's really fucking. Yeah, now they're expecting a lot of him. It's just too bad. I'm like, look, you guys want reality. This is the reality. He's showing it to you. He eats cereal.

He eats steak. He fucking works out. And he doesn't give a fuck what you think. This is his life. This is his journey. This is his diary. You're watching it. He's not asking you to watch it.

And then people want a nitpick. It's like, don't fucking watch it then if you don't like it. You wanted somebody to be authentic. He eats cereal. Yeah. But this is the most authentic thing you could possibly see. Like we went, okay, we were at an appearance in New Jersey.

And I think it was a post-workout meal. We went to the grocery store, we got some food, but it was a post-workout meal. I'm like, Sam, what are you going to eat? I'm like, we need to film it. So we're trying to get content. So we film him eating breakfast. We film him eating post-workout meal. I'm like, what are you going to eat? We're going to film it. He's like, I'm content. So we film him eating breakfast, we film him eating post-workout meal. I'm like, what are you gonna eat? We're gonna film it. He's like, I'm just gonna make a turkey sandwich. I'm like thinking in my head, I'm like,

fuck man, how am I gonna film a turkey sandwich? Like, what is it? No one's gonna. So he gets two slices of keto bread, put some fucking turkey slices, some cheese, some mayo, or whatever the fuck it was, slaps it together. We make a video of it. 400,000 views.

I'm like, God damn it. But, you know why? It's fucking real. He ate two turkey sandwiches for a fucking post-workout meal. That was real. He didn't do it on purpose, didn't do it for a video. That's what he wants to eat.

That's why people like him so much. But that's also why he gets the same level of hate because people are like, that can't be why. He can't look like that because he ate turkey. He's gotta be taking all the trend in the world. And it's like people would be shocked that, like he's genetically got it. Yeah.

Do you see like, cause he has a sick physique, but as he's progressing, like, do you, I don't even know, does he have goals of being on the IFBB stage? He says he wants to, I don't even know. Does he have goals of being on the IFBB stage? Like he says he wants to, I don't know what his ultimate goals are. Like he just told me that he does want to compete, but he's, you know, one of the things about Sam that people don't know is he's very, very patient. Good.

Like he's not, that's why it was kind of like, I was really proud that we signed with us because he's gotten a number of offers since and I know them and they're companies that he could sign with because they're not supplement companies or clothing companies or lifting gear or whatever. He's like, I'm not ready right now or whatever. Like he's very, very patient. Whereas like if I was 21, I'd be like, yeah,

I'll sign that, I'll sign that. Yeah, just as long as I like it, pass it over, I'm good. He's like, look, I'll compete when I'm, I think his mindset from what I've gathered and talking to him over the years, he wants to compete when he's ready to get on stage and win. So he's like, I'm waiting, I'm just gonna wait. I'm gonna like do is, you know,

put out the best physique I can possibly put out. I respect it, It's cool. It's like he's, he knows what he wants, which is like a huge, it's very like respectful to see that. What are you excited about coming up? Anything new going on? Our Detroit Pro Show. This was the first year me, Paul and Ben,

who's another friend of mine that does the podcast with me sometimes. Me and Paul were already promoting, we added Ben to the mix and we promote the Detroit Pro Show. And one of the things that we've always said is, you gotta put your money where your mouth is. So, you know, all these people have come before us

that complain about bodybuilding shows, they're like, oh, they're only $10,000 for the winner. Oh, the lighting sucks. Oh, the backdrop sucks. Oh, the backdrop sucks. Oh, we were those guys. So when we got the Detroit Pro Show, we're like, we're gonna do this our way. So we did a black backdrop, no fucking sponsors,

just like old school shit. LED screen above that, so you could promote the sponsors there. We did really, really good lighting and we gave $25,000 to the winner. So immediately we're coming out the gate going, look, we're putting our money where our mouth is. Now, part of the reason we were able to do that is because we only had bodybuilding. We didn't have classic, we didn't have physique, we didn't have bikini, we didn't, we're like,

this is a Pro-Am, we did an amateur side and we did just bodybuilding. So I'm excited that to grow this thing. So we're going to do bodybuilding again. I think we're going to add Classic next year, but we want to give $30,000. So we're going to keep Classic or to, I don't know if I want to put this out publicly, but I want to try and match the money for Classic. So it just really all comes down to sponsorships. And this is a thing about that.

I love about me, Paul and Ben doing this is none of us are comes down to sponsorships. And this is a thing that I love about me, Paul, and Ben doing this is none of us are doing it to get rich. We all have our own jobs. We wanna, basically we wanna get sponsors and just take that sponsor money and go put it into the prize pot. Or if it doesn't grow first place, then maybe four or five, six get prize money

or something, right? Like, so that's my excitement right now. Obviously the first and foremost is hostile. We're growing and we're doing new clothing and doing new supplements. We have a lot of cool things on the way. We just opened our own warehouse. We were using a 3PL before, now we have our own.

So there's a lot of exciting things that are hostile, but aside from that, the show promotion is probably, cause we've been doing the amateur side in Canada for over a decade, but this is our first chance at a pro show. And we're, I think we started off on a good foot and we just want to like make it bigger and bigger, bigger, keep going. What's the deal with Nick Walker? Why is he so jacked? Like what's the, I mean, he just looks different than anybody I've ever seen.

Like what's the, I mean, he just, he looks different than anybody I've ever seen. I used to think the term hyper responder was bullshit. I don't anymore after talking to a couple, like Derek from More Plates More Dates, we did some really good videos on it. I talked to Stefan Kinsel, he's a boss of Outlaw on Instagram. He's a really knowledgeable,

he's got a, I believe he has a pharmacy degree. I'm not sure, but he was talking about hyper responders. Just meet. Yeah. You know, he was talking about hyper, hyper responders in a different way. You know, some people say that hyper responders are that way because they respond to the drugs in a way. Other people say it's because the way they clear the drugs.

So their body is recovers faster. Now I'm not, I don't want to say any of this to say that Nick is, you know, it's just drugs. I will tell you about that. Like I'll tell you this about Nick. Nick was sponsored by us for just under a year. I've never seen somebody in my life that is as dedicated as Nick. It's like, it's ridiculous.

It's like a fucking robot. I'm not joking. Like, he doesn't care if his food is cold. He doesn't care if it's warm. He doesn't care if he's in a car. He doesn't care if he's sitting in a restaurant. He doesn't care if it's time to eat, it's time to eat. If it's time to train, it's time to train.

Where are we training? What are we training? Like he's just, this is his, it's his whole life. His training and competing. Now, I'm sure he's gonna learn the business side of bodybuilding as he gets older, meeting fans, doing meet and greets, things like that. But when it comes to strictly bodybuilding and like training, getting on stage,

I haven't seen a guy with more passion and more dedication than Nick. Now, the reason I said the first part was because obviously genetics matter, right? And Nick has the genetics for it. Like he has the ability to put on a massive amount of muscle and he trains extremely hard. So, you know, he's just got it. He's, some guys are just built for this, you know?

I gotta ask this because I'm Nigerian and I love Samson Douda and curious about, because Nick, he's huge, right? Right. But, you know, again, he seems kind of like his shape. Square. Yeah. Samson, he's fucking beautiful. He's the aesthetic monster.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you see him being able to win soon? I think, you know, I signed Samson, I signed Samson to Hostile three years ago when nobody knew who he was. I saw him in the top five at a show. I think he was fifth or sixth. And I was like, that guy's got a really, really nice shape.

Yeah. So I signed him. And that's a guest posing, right? Yeah. That's at my last, my last show, me and Paul show in Toronto. That was like a month ago, I think. It's insane. That's him at 320 pounds. That's

like in the, just starting his off season. That's him right now. That was like posted yesterday or the day before, I think. Yeah. He's three 26 there. He's just a f*****g monster with a pretty physique, man. It's insane. But I'll tell you what. So I signed him knowing that that shape was there, but not knowing he was going to be this crazy. And then he just exploded, like muscularity just started to come on, right? He started working with Milos, Milos showed him how to like, well, first he started working with John, John taught him some stuff. He was working with his wife, they put on some sort of a good amount of size, then he

started working with John in a prep. Then he worked with Milos, they put on a ton of muscle together. Um, and now he's where he's at. Now the thing between Samson and Nick is this. Samson's at the point now where he's developed his back enough to be able to stand with him in the back shots. Samson just has to learn to get conditioned as he doesn't really have to be as conditioned as Nick because he has a better shape, but he has to learn to get conditioned as, he doesn't really have to be as conditioned as Nick because he has a better shape, but he has to be close.

And to date, that's been the only thing holding him back. I think everybody in the IFBB has a general consensus that when he nails that condition, he will be Mr. Olympia. Let's go. Yeah, and I fully believe it. I fully believe he can do it. And his work ethic this year has even gone up a notch

from what it was, which was already crazy. So yeah, I have no doubt in my mind Samson could win the Olympia. Like that back shot, like that back shot was his work, but worst pose three years ago. That's how much work he's done. Damn. His lat almost goes out to his elbow at this point.

Yeah, yeah. So this is like, this is like, he's 37 now. This is a guy that can, you know, and he's fresh because he didn't start late, right? Like I think he started in his late 20s. Really? Or early? Not lifting? Well, he played rugby and he didn't start bodybuilding until like his, I think his early

30s or late twenties. So I believe he could probably compete into his forties because he's started so late. Yeah. Um, so if he can just put it together condition wise, he could be Mr. Olympia for years to come. Like there's not many guys that have that shape in that size at the same time. Kind of a, as a parting shot here, what's a couple of cool things that you learned from John Meadows? Oh, um, shot here. What's a couple of cool things that you learned from John Meadows? Must've learned some business stuff from him as well because he was already kind of on his way. John was the, John was the mentor of mentors. I fucking,

I learned so much from John without him telling me just from being around him. Um, one thing I learned, treat everybody the same, treat everybody with respect. Second thing I learned is patience. The third thing I learned is it's okay to say I don't know, which is probably the biggest thing I've learned in my life because I was the know it all coming up. John would literally say to me, he would come, it's funny, we would be at the gym and like some kid would come up to him

or he would see some kid training and be like, oh, I kind of like the way he's doing that. And I'm like, this guy's written books. But he's like humble enough to be like, I can learn from anybody. So, and he's also humble enough to say, I made a mistake. He was also humble enough to say, I can do it better. I even asked him about programs that he's written

that he said he had to go back and change, or he would tell people like that was before I knew this. Like these are all like really humble things. So humility is a huge one that I learned from him. But honestly, the biggest thing I think I took away was just it's okay to say you're wrong, treat everybody the same and have humility. It's like, he's just, he taught me a lot

about just being a man, right? Cause when you don't have those things that I just said, it's kind of like you're still a kid, you know? When you're a fucking know-it-all and you're like, you're kind of a child, right? So like teaching me those values where like, I grew up a lot learning from him. Awesome, thank you for your time today, appreciate it.

Where can people find you? Where can they find out more about your supplements? Hostile.com for supplements, at F Abbey or at hostile subs on Instagram. And that's about it, man. Thank you guys for having me, man. I love it. Yeah, great to meet you in person. Thank you guys.

I really appreciate it. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.