Mark Bell's Power Project - Getting Over The Hump, How To Master a New Challenge || MBPP Ep. 794

Episode Date: August 31, 2022

In this Podcast Episode, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about getting over "the hump", aka, coming back to a new challenge enough times to become proficient at it.  Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!! ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject Code POWERPROJECT20 for 20% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements! ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://eatlegendary.com Use Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori! ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep! ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject  ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok  FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en  Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast

How did you get over the hump in the beginning? Like you mentioned to me before that you were pretty sore and stuff in the beginning. Oh, yeah. What do you think kept you going back? What did you maybe like about it? If you have a wrestling background or maybe if you're just really gifted when it comes to movement, maybe it'll click for you in three, four, five months. But I think it took me over a year for the movement for stuff to click well.

Did you feel relaxed when you first started picking up running like seriously picking up running were you pretty relaxed how long did it take you to become a more relaxed runner it takes a while to like you know relax while you're running um especially when you're going like a long like a longer distance and you're trying to run continuously um but I also, my approach in the beginning was to like try to mitigate a lot of that. So I only ran for real short periods of time. If you can't think about the form and the technique

and what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to execute it for all five sets of five, the weight's too heavy. Normally what happens is you get that weight on your back and go, oh fuck, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do five reps. And then you're not sure if you can get through the next set, the next set, the next set. And you're just kind of crapping your pants the whole time rather than being able to do a coordinated effort with a good squat. You know,

there's plenty of reasons to quit. There's plenty of reasons to stop because you don't get better at it right away. And it does take, it does take a lot of work. Fuck, man. I mean, I remember being out on like many runs and just being like, man, I still can't breathe that good. Are you serious? Like, this is crazy. Are you actually on like TRT though? What would be the point though? I mean, because men's hormone levels dip as they get older.

No, they don't. No, they don't. No, no, no. They don't. No, no, because you guys say that. When you are a kid, you don't really understand how some things do work. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Power Project family, we talk about sleep all the time on this podcast, as you know. That's why we've partnered with Eight Sleep Mattresses. And the amazing thing about Eight Sleep Mattresses, and one of the reasons why they are nicknamed the Tesla of beds, is because of the technology behind the Pod Pro cover.

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sleep.com slash power project. And you will automatically receive $150 off of the Pod Pro cover or the Pod Pro cover and mattress combo. Again, no code for that. You guys will get that automatically. Links to them down in the description description as well as the podcast show notes you're very smiley did you have you have sex today or something what's going on he had kirk kuman i will be with my girlfriend not with me or andrew no i I'm insulted. It's so fake. Sound forced. Yeah, no, it's like, you know, like when the fucking like the loner kid is just like, I have sex with my girlfriend every day, every hour. Yeah, my girlfriend in Canada, right? Exactly. I swear she exists,

guys. I've never seen your girlfriend before. That's weird. She's real. She just doesn't come around a lot. Yeah, she's way up there in Canada. She's shy. She's shy. And Seema. Oh, what's up, man?

Dude, you got a brown belt. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's after the brown belt? Black. Oh, my God. Isn't it just makes sense that black is the highest belt? It's like the only case where black is good, right? You fucker. You fucker.

Oh, darkness and everything? What are you talking about? Well, I mean, the brown belt, I am actually brown. We're talking technically. Oh, okay. You know. Yeah. What does it start off with? White belt. A white belt. Oh, okay. You know. Yeah. What does it start off with?

Well, like in- White belt. A white belt. Oh, I see. In chess, right, if you have the white pieces, you go first. And so everybody strives for the white pieces. But is that how it is? Over to the dark side?

And then when it, yeah. Is it always good to have the first move? I don't know. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't know anything about chess other than that one simple fucking... What goes first? Dude, what's that like? It's really cool. Is there like a big ceremony or something? A big parade? Yeah. No, there isn't. Casio does promotions typically twice a year. So yeah, yeah. It was really dope though. It was really dope.

One thing that i find kind of interesting is i was talking to you about this and i mentioned it to a another guy roll with who's a black belt his name's nejo but i think there's a mental aspect to when people see belts um i think it's oh yeah because you actually wear it in practice right you wear it right yeah and i think people put a level of skill to, even if you're not thinking about it, when you see a black belt, right, you're like, oh, they're skilled.

When you see a brown belt, you're like, ooh. And when you see a purple belt, you're like, oh. When you see a blue belt, you're like, oh. When you see a white belt, you're like, ha ha. You know? And I think because as I've been rolling with people after- Can you go through those expressions again? I was pretty-

I don't know if the camera caught it. But I think people talk about different belt powers or whatever. I think that there's a legitimate aspect to it because it's the way other people now start viewing you because of the belt you have on your waist. So someone, if you were a blue belt, but now you're a purple belt, they're going to come at you differently because they see that belt. So they might be a little bit more timid or scared to try things on you because they're like, oh, he's a purple belt. He'll know. And I think that's with brown belt because when I rolled with some people after getting the brown belt, nothing new happened, but it's just like, it's like some of the roles feel as if they've gotten easier. And I think even if they're not thinking about it,

there's a mental aspect to the way people look at belts. And I think that there's something that you should try not to pay attention to the belt that somebody has on their waist. Because if you zone in on that too much, it's really going to affect the way you move versus that person. Like I see it when people roll with black belts, they'll roll with a purple belt very differently

from how they're going to approach a black belt because they're more scared, more timid. It's like, I know I noticed it when I used to roll with Casio in the past, when I'd roll with Casio, I wouldn't be as loose as when I'd roll with other guys because like he's a black belt and he's Casio. So I'd, I'd be more timid, but I think that's something that you want to try to drop. Is, is there a, maybe like a respect level from the other person too, where, I don't know, they, they, yeah, they, they, I don't know, because they're respecting you, they're like kind of messing up and they're

also, uh, I don't know. They maybe don't want to, they maybe don't want to go so hard. Cause then they're scared that you might go all the way. Right. There are those aspects. Yeah. There's, there's so many things that are at play in that. Um, like if I really go hard on him, he's going to like put me in my place. So I'm just going to kind of roll and try to chill and like try to kind of hide under this rock and just pretend that I don't have any skills so he doesn't kill me. It's kind of funny because there's something in jujitsu called flow rolling. So some people would be like, okay, let's flow roll this round. So that means let's take it light. But I've rolled with a few people where like they're like, let's flow roll. And then they've really turned it on. And then I'm just like,

you shouldn't have done that. You said keep it flow. Don't come at me like that. I think I told you I did that with, I did it with Mark Henry and I did it with Bobby Lashley. They told me no beforehand. And I was like, I just want to see. Mark Henry just did it with my hand. What did he do? He just shook my hand. He's like, what's up, player? And he shook my hand. What did he do? He just shook my hand. He's like, what's up, player? And he shook my hand. And I said, hey, like, I said, you know, because in wrestling, you shake hands like this.

Like, it's always super. It's just super light. I don't know if they still do it, but it was like a thing of like, you're not trying to like big dog each other, you know? You're not trying to like put her here and like, you know. But why did they start doing that? That's really interesting that they do that in wrestling why did do you know why they that's a thing they they they did that um they they do that to kind of show that they're like already in the business like they already know like if you know then you know and you shake each other's hands softly like you're not trying to shake the undertaker's hand hard you're not trying to shake stone cold steve austin's hand

like hard no uh what it used to mean is the guy's going to stiff you in the ring. So if a rookie guy, someone who's green, shakes someone's hand hard, they're going to get fucking punched in the face in the ring. They're going to get kind of taken care of, so to speak. I don't know. I don't remember where I was going. Mark Henry shook your hand. Oh, yeah, Mark Henry.

Yeah, Mark Henry. We shook my hand real light, and I like oh come on just give me like a I just kind of want to see and he's like this is the world's strongest man power he's like I don't think so I was like come on man and he squeezed my hand and it like he just turned my hand

into like a tiny hand like my fingers got squished really bad even though we were locked all the way in. And he's like, that's about three quarters power. That's crazy that you guys were locked all the way in though. Shit. Yeah.

Yeah. He just crushed the whole thing. I was like, holy fuck. What's his hand substantially bigger than yours? Oh, his hands are massive. Yeah.

Makes sense. I would, I'm thinking like with the belts, it's sort of just like the pecking order. You know, it's like, I don't know, Mark, like if you're in the gym and you have your bench that you like, you know, not that you even would do this, but like nobody's going to go to that bench or whatever. You know what I mean? Just out of like the respect side of things.

I think there has something to do with that. And then like the mental side of things, you know, like no one's going to just jump in on your workout just because, you know, like. Even though you want them to probably, you probably want them to be like, like you probably want someone to like fucking kind of step to you a bit, right? Yes. But this is the thing. I like, I think that there's a psychological thing that I think you can really get rid of, but it implants when I, this is just, this is just me.

I was, I've been thinking about this a lot. It implants when you're a white belt, when you start rolling with people, because when you are a white belt, you see everybody's different belts. You see the blue belts, you see the purple belts, you see the brown and the black belts, and you attribute different levels of importance and skill and potential fear when you approach to roll with one of them. So you know that when you roll with a blue belt, you're like, eh, you know, they're okay. You roll with a purple belt, you're like, okay, let's whatever. You roll with the brown belt, you're like, eh, you know, they're okay. You roll with the purple belt, you're like, okay, let's whatever. You roll with the brown belt, you're like, oh, fuck. You roll with the black belt, you're like, I'm fucked, right? Now, if you never get rid of the way you look at

people's belts, you're perpetually going to be somewhat scared of purple belts, really scared of brown belts, and then really fearful of a black belt. And if you never let that go, as you progress through the belts, you're still going to have this thing in the back of your head when you see a belt. And you're not going to even be thinking about it, but when you see a belt on somebody's waist, you're going to automatically think they're so much better than me rather than approaching them as you would approach anybody else, which is what I think that you should try to do when you're rolling. You should approach the black belt the way you would approach somebody else, because then you're letting

all of your skill out. You could do the same thing with a school. You heard that somebody's from this particular school that has a bunch of people that are wrecking machines, right? And you just associate this one guy with that school. And maybe your school is better than their school. You don't have any idea. You don't even know it. Exactly.

Like Gordon Ryan, he's the best nogi grappler. But I think an aspect of why he's so good is number one, his technique is really fucking amazing. But he truly has been able to instill fear in all of these other grapplers worldwide because of how he approaches things, not just on social media, but like he will, he's a nightmare to have a match with because he will trash doll and trash talk ragdoll you through social media before you guys are actually going to roll. And he's done that with all of them. And then he's beat them too. So now when people are like, oh, I have to roll against Gordon, there's this already like this discomfort because of what he instills. And I think certain belts have instilled that on people too. I think you can get rid of that, but yeah, it's weird.

Do you have some guys that are lower belts right now that surprise you, that do pretty good against you where you're like, fuck, that was actually like – that was pretty intense and you maybe had to rely on some stuff that you didn't even think you needed to rely on? I have some good roles with lower belts like blue belts and purple belts. I have good roles. Do you think those guys are maybe a little more relaxed or they just know you more or.

I think there's okay. So also being my size, there's a, there's a thing in jujitsu where like people think that when they roll with bigger individuals, that they're automatically gonna like get really just stomped or hurt or whatever right so there are there are people now i'm not gonna hurt them right but there are some people who uh who like they'll they'll really roll comfortably because

they know okay i'm gonna be safe rolling within sema right and there's some people that just don't roll with me um but I've been able to go over to this school in San Jose that has a few people actually went there, uh, with a law and Jason, uh, enrolled with Jason Kalipa down there. It's Kyle Tara in San Jose. And there's a lot of like strong, big black belts and especially no gi. I got fucked up in no gi, which is great to feel. I haven't been able to roll with some of them in the Gi, but, um, those guys, they compete at a high level, uh, and they, they roll at a very high level. So there I'm able to kind of let loose a bit more. Um, I'm able to do that with some people here, but I generally don't because it's, it's a lot of weight moving around and it's, uh,

you know, everyone has to be safe. I would think if you were lower, I would think if you were a lower level belt, that would be encouraging to go with you because, uh, you like to work out of bad positions and stuff, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So I think it would be, I mean, I don't know if the guys think that they're getting something on you or they think they're about to get something on you and they're surprised cause you're, you're who you are. Um, and they are well aware of who you are in your school um but i would find that encouraging like wow i'm surprised that i even got even remotely close to anything that i you know i i didn't even think i was gonna be able to do anything but meanwhile you kind of gave me your arm or gave me your back or something like that because you wanted to train

that yeah no that happens quite a bit and that's how i usually train floor belts but i think like when i was when i was a blue belt and even when i was a white belt you can't if you're a white belt you can't necessarily ask brown belts to roll you can actually but like it's not done as often but when i was a white belt it's like kind of disrespectful in the school or something like belt specifically like you like you if you're a belt, you don't necessarily point out a black belt and say, hey, do you want to roll? Like you usually let them ask you. But when I was a white belt,

I was always trying to roll with upper belts because like I knew that's how I'd get my best rolls. That's how I'd learn the most because they'd fuck me up so bad and I'd always be able to ask them questions on like- But probably safely as well. Oh yeah, definitely.

There's another white belt, right? Oh, white belts aren't allowed to wear white belts with Casio. Oh, I see. But other schools, they let white belts roll with other white belts. But I, I, I think it's smart what Casio has done because when a white belt rolls with a white belt, it's two people that are new and they don't know where to stop. They don't know like when something's actually being put on that's unsafe. So white belts tend to hurt each other. And you know, there's, there's the white belt spazziness that people got to be careful.

Like I've only done jujitsu a handful of times and I legitimately don't even know when I have someone to hold. Yeah. They're like, Oh, do this, do this, do this.

And then I'm like, Oh, I'm like, I have someone in an arm bar and then I have no idea how much pressure to apply. Yeah. I mean, even though I've been in a couple myself, I'm not sure like, you know, I mean, I know to, if the guy taps, I know to let go. But I'm not sure like, they're like, oh, extend your hips. I'm like, how far?

Like, are you going to rip this guy's fucking arm out of socket? Like, what's the deal here? And then it depends on the person too, right? Yeah, it does depend on the person. out of socket like what's the deal here and then it depends on the person too right yeah it does depend on the person um but like that's the thing when i was a white belt when i was a blue belt um and purple belt absolutely i would always try to roll with the best people i could and i think maybe it was easier for me because i was big so like i would never i would never i stopped early trying to really power through things. Um, but

I would always try to roll with like guys who I knew would fuck me up. And I think for some people, they don't necessarily purposefully do that. They don't try to roll with the person that's really going to mess them up because they're scared of getting fucked up. And that's the only way you're going to really get better. So that's partially why some people don't want to roll with me because they know how many times they're going to get tapped. But when I roll with people, I've always tried to roll with the person that I knew would tap me the most. That's the person I want to roll with as many times as I possibly could during practice, because I knew I'm going to learn the most from the guy who's going to really mess, not mess me up as in hurt me, but tap me because then I'd be able to ask,

what do I do? And I think within jujitsu, you're going to be able to progress faster if you seek out the people that are going to tap you the most. Not if you seek out the people that you know, you're going to beat up. Do you think it's a game of like not getting tapped

or is it, it's a game of like you, I understand it's a defensive game in some way like the nature of it but it's more like you should be on the offense right not all well it depends on what's like if we're going against each other yeah and it's a match then i want to try to win i don't want to try to just not lose uh-huh i mean i might feel your skill level right away and be like i just need to fucking survive. This is going to be embarrassing. So there's that factor. But if we're a little bit more even, right? Like I just, I don't want to just get out of it.

I want to be able to fucking win. Well, you know, in competition, there's so many different ways that people play the game. When you talk about being offensive, there's, within jujitsu competitions, there's a point system. offensive, there's within jujitsu competitions, there's a point system. So the ways that I've lost have been when an individual has gotten into a position, whether they're wrapped or literally like wrapped around my leg and they have my gi wrapped around something else. And there may be a head by an advantage or they have one advantage and they hold that position for two or two and a half minutes. I don't get tapped usually in competition. Actually, I don't think I've been tapped in competition since I was a blue belt.

The only times that I've lost in comp has been when somebody just gets a position where it's hard to move, and they're up by an advantage, and they win by points. And that's a very frustrating thing, but at the end of the day, it's like, okay, I need to just learn how to get out of those positions

even though they're very stall tactic worthy. Right. Um, but I don't like playing that game. Like I typically like to play guard, sweep, submit. I like doing jujitsu. I don't like doing the stall game when a lot of people know how to, and it's, I can't, I can't, I can't bag it or like a crap on it because that's it because it's part of it. It's an aspect of a way people can win. It's a way of winning. But I don't think that's really jujitsu. But even playing guard is a way for you to get an offensive move in at some point.

Absolutely. The reason you pull guard or you do any guard is to either submit them while they're in your guard or sweep, get on top, and submit them. You know what I mean? So there's a lot to it, but it's super fun. So would you say that like trying to roll with an upper belt, even if you're not planning on competing or anything, like you're in the sport just for self-defense for the exercise of it all, my camera died. Does it even matter if, uh, like, should someone still seek that out? I think so., like, an upper belt, number one, they'll tap you. They'll show you things as you guys are rolling.

And the thing is, is, like, I think that you shouldn't, if you do get tapped and you'll get tapped a lot when you're initially starting to jujitsu, starting to jujitsu, starting jujitsu, you need to take that opportunity to ask the person you're rolling with how that happened. you need to take that opportunity to ask the person you're rolling with how that happened. Whenever I like, if that ever happens, I still ask, what did you do there? Because you're going to actually understand or have an idea of maybe, okay, this is what I need to do. So that doesn't happen again. And then when you learn how to do that, then they'll get you with something else. Then it'll be like, okay, this is what I need to do. So that doesn't happen again or as often.

But a lot of people, if they get tapped, they get frustrated, they get annoyed and they don't ask questions. They just go to the next role without trying to figure out how you got fucked up. And then you'll just keep getting fucked up the same way. Maybe because you're too prideful to ask, ask that question, or you don't like looking stupid. I don't give a fuck about looking stupid. You know what I mean? I really don't care about that so i think that's that's helped a lot cassio actually mentioned um that's something because uriah used to train with him back in the day and now something that uriah was notorious for when he was starting jiu jitsu every single time somebody would tap him he would never let a roll skip without figuring out how he got tapped and that's how he that's how he progressed so quickly, by asking questions.

So ask him fucking questions. How did you get over the hump in the beginning? Like you mentioned to me before that you were pretty sore and stuff in the beginning. Oh, yeah. What do you think kept you going back? What did you maybe like about it? Well, I liked one of the big reasons I started doing it was because I played soccer. Well, I liked one of the big reasons I started doing it was because like, you know, I played soccer. So when I got into focusing on bodybuilding and powerlifting after soccer ended, I did that for a few years. But then I realized like my body wasn't moving the way it used to and I didn't have freedom of movement like I wanted. So at the time I was dating someone and she was like, try jujitsu. Uh, and she, she is actually, she looked it up. Um, and she still does jujitsu now, but she looked it up on the internet and

she's like, Oh, this, this looks pretty cool. I was like, Oh yeah, that looks cool. So I went to a class and I really dug it because everyone, there are people of different sizes, but people were moving in such a variable ways. It wasn't a striking martial art. So I knew that this is something I could do for a long time. Um, and one thing that was pretty intimidating about it is is because I'd watch it, but I didn't know what the fuck was going on. You know what I mean? So when I started for the first few months and actually for the first year, things just didn't make sense for a long time. But the cool thing is people are like, just stick with it because things aren't going to make sense for a while. You just got to keep doing it, keep coming. because things aren't going to make sense for a while.

You just got to keep doing it, keep coming. And slowly your brain will start putting the pieces together. So I think that's one reason why people quit so quickly because they expect it to click early on. And it's something that if you have a wrestling background or maybe if you're just really gifted when it comes to movement, maybe it'll click for you in three, four, five months. But I think it took me over a year for like the movement for stuff to like click well. You know, certain things were making sense, but I look at other things and I'd be like, I don't know what the fuck is going on here.

So it was more of a time and consistency thing. How did you get over the kind of the bumps and bruises of the pain of it? I think I treated it just like the way we treat lifting. You know what I mean? Because you're going to come across it. Something's going to happen. I think I was a blue belt when I had a meniscus surgery. And it happened with like a lifting thing.

I did something with a squat and I felt my knee was like, oh, no. And then I went to the hospital and they couldn't get me an MRI because, you know, they said, oh, we don't think you have anything wrong. I'm like, I'm pretty sure there's something wrong. And then something happened at jujitsu and then my meniscus tore. So I did that surgery and I was back training in about six weeks, but it's not something that like totally took me out of it. Like I'd still go to classes and watch so I could at least kind of absorb it somehow. And then I just started training again and just kind of kept consistent with it. All the time, little things happen here and there.

Like recently, I told you guys and you guys remember when I had that scapula injury, when my shoulder just crunched in and I couldn't lift my arm over my head. That took me out of rolling for a week. And then I was able to start rolling light the week after that. And I just kept working on it and got past it. But that type of shit happens. It's not going to always be super smooth. You know, you'll get certain injuries, you'll rehab it and you'll learn the things that you need to do. So it doesn't happen again. You're not going to get through any of this shit injury free. Right. Did you have to go often to kind of get over the hump or was it like you just committed Again, you're not going to get through any of this shit injury-free, right?

Did you have to go often to kind of get over the hump, or was it like you just committed to like three times a week? I mean, three times a week is fairly often. Initially, when I first started, I was like, okay, I'm going to go four times a week. And I learned very quickly I couldn't go four times a week. My body was just like, nah, it's way too much fatigue. So I was like, okay, let me try doing two times a week. And I was able to do two times a week, pretty consistently with lifting. And then over time, as my body was getting used to the stress of it, I was like, okay, I'm going to try to go

three times a week. Um, and initially that was pretty stressful too, after I started going three times a week. But then I think after seven, six or seven months, I was consistently going four times a week and some weeks five. But now my body was kind of used to getting – my body was used to moving in that way and it was used to that stimulus. Because when you go from not doing any type of jujitsu to moving your body in all these ways and being stretched out in a bunch of different ways, you're going to feel super fucking sore. And it would be ridiculous to think unless you are gifted, not gifted. I don't even want, I don't like using that word unless you've had a wrestling background or you're pretty mobile or you have good movement capacity. Um, your body is going to feel really wrecked for a good amount

of time. Graham's feeling that right now. Every time he finishes jujitsu, he's like, Oh, my body feels like it feels sore from the inside because you're doing all these things that you've literally never done before. Yeah, it's dealing with your own body weight and then dealing with somebody else's forces too. So there's a lot of different shit going on. And then plus, you know, you guys, I mean, when you're starting, you don't always go from a standing position. But right when you're first starting out. You don't always go from a standing position,

especially when you're starting out because you don't know. There's ways to mitigate a lot of the stress of it. I mean, if you, the first two months that you go, if you're primarily stay on the ground, there's some ways to mitigate the stress, but you're still grappling with somebody else and there's no other way to do it.

It's kind of like jumping. Like when you jump on top of something, like you literally, there's a point where you're going to have to put, apply a certain amount of force into the ground. And if you're fighting with somebody else and they're trying to take position on you, you might be able to do light rolls

and do all kinds of stuff for the most part, but there's going to be times where you got to go 100%. Did you feel relaxed when you first started picking up running, like seriously picking up running? Were you pretty relaxed? How long did it take you to become a more relaxed runner? It takes a while to like, you know, relax while you're running. Um, especially when you're going like long, like a longer distance and you're trying to run continuously. Um, but I also, my approach in the beginning was to like try to mitigate a lot of that. So I only ran for real short periods of time.

Yeah. And I'm sure I probably would look tight to people, but like I felt like I was running calmly. I felt like I was running loose. I was trying not to like frown and grit my teeth and stuff like that. And I would only run for like 15 seconds at a time, 30 seconds at a time, then a minute at a time, or I would run from something like 15 seconds at a time, 30 seconds at a time, then a minute at a time. Or I would run from something to something else type thing. And, you know, it took a long time, though.

I remember, you know, I walked for the last like 10 years. I've been walking for a really long time. I did some walking where I would do weighted walks. So I'd have like a weight vest on, an 11-pound weight vest, a 20-pound weight vest, sometimes a 40-pound weight vest. I experimented with a bunch of different stuff like that. But then one day I was walking and it just felt good enough to run. And so I started to do run walks. And I remember after doing some run walks for even just a few months, I remember I would actually call it a walk jog because that's

really what it was. It was walking intermittently jogging, and then it turned into jogging and intermittently walking, and then it turned into running and walking, and then it became running and jogging, and then now it's just running. I'm able to like run three to five miles, which just means, you know, that I'm able to do it in like nine minutes or something, nine minute pace for each mile or something like that, you know? Yeah. That's like running.

Like you're actually, you watch somebody run like a nine minute mile, like they're moving pretty good. It's a pretty good pace. So, but that took a long time. Like I, you know, probably been working on that for, when I say a long time,

it might not sound like a long time, but when you're in it and you're doing it every day what I say a long time. It might not sound like a long time, but when you're in it and you're doing it every day, it's, it's a long time. So, yeah. And you were doing, you had pretty good frequency with the run walks when you're doing those, like you were doing those like how many times a week? Uh, I'd probably do those three or four times a week. And now I'm, now I'm running even more often than that. I run, I try to just like run almost every day. Yeah. And then every once in a while, I'm like, ah, that's probably not smart to run today. So when I ran, I ran 12 miles a couple of days ago. When I did that, I was like, ah, it's probably not because I ended up like weird blood blister

on my foot. I was just like, hmm, like it's just not, I'll just walk. Like it's not smart to run. So I didn't run the next day but the day after that i ran a little bit again and um but yeah it probably has only taken me about eight months to really like be able to run pretty well but i think you know if i think about where i was coming from uh i didn't have hardly any uh conditioning but i was conditioned with a lot of lifting and so that's not nothing, right?

That's something I was conditioned with some strength. And, but it's just been a super long time since I've ran at all. Like the last time I ran was, man, like high school, I guess, you know? Like so many, many years. I'm going to be 46 coming up. school i guess you know like so many many years i'm gonna be 46 coming up so uh fucking 30 years like a couple decades without really running it not that i didn't run at all but i'm just saying like any sort of surmountable serious running any sort of consistent running like none and you know the the thing is is like i think that it takes the fact that you've never, you haven't done that since you're really young. If somebody was in that same situation, most people would like start doing it.

And then it would be pretty hard in the beginning or the runs would feel super uncomfortable or there'd be certain pains in certain areas of the body that before they get over that hump or before they get pretty decent there, they, they probably say, I'm too big for this. I'm, I'm a muscular guy. This isn't for me. Um, there's always going to be some way to figure out why this isn't for you because you're not immediately pretty decent. You know what I mean? Like you can't, you can't run for six minutes or even jog well for six minutes. Ah, it's not for me. Or my ankles hurt, my feet hurt. I'm too heavy for this. It's not for me. Right. Rather than like you did, you did run walks. You did, you had a lower frequency. Then over time you increase your frequency very slowly.

And so you're at a point now where like you're running in a hundred and something degree heat on most days. You usually try to run during the hardest part of the day you're running for miles but it's just slowly adjusting with all of the discomfort and all the little mini injuries that happen throughout it um one thing with jiu-jitsu a lot of little mini injuries yeah yeah and i remember you saying with jiu-jitsu like your feet and just like weird stuff that you don't even think about because like you're on the ground a lot you're on your knees a lot um there's a lot of like bending and twisting and um you guys are barefoot so of course the toes are gonna be a big factor in there right yeah a lot of people notice that i noticed that in the beginning too like just my feet were sore in your hands right some people really complain about the hands because you're grabbing the person's gi doesn't that hurt like

a motherfucker right dog it's the death gripping because like when you grab on somebody usually because this is where the relaxing thing comes in and i was curious for you like how how you were able to release that hurt so we used to uh you know to get the bench shirts on it was like similar like you you you grab it you know and and uh you know the the type of materials like a polyester yeah and you you squeeze and you get it like way into your fingers and the guy squeeze and you get it like way into your fingers and the guy like would you to squeeze the guy into the bench shirt you know and man when you let go like your fingers hurt for like 20 seconds afterwards yeah i can't imagine and like for power lifting it's like you help someone get in their shirt and you help adjust

it a couple times and you're done uh-huh but in-jitsu where uh the guy could potentially tap you if you let go i mean it's uh not like life and death but it fucking almost is life and death the guy's gonna choke your ass out man that's gotta be really crazy like you hold someone's wrist or arm in a certain position and you're like all i need to do is be able to hold on to this for a longer period of time and i can get out out of this. But then you can't, right? Your hand just probably goes dead at some point. That's what most people notice in the beginning. One of the roughest things for most people isn't just like the grip,

but because you're gripping so hard, like your forearm starts to get sore because you're death gripping everything because you don't know what the fuck you're doing. So you're not relaxed, you're death gripping, and then you're not breathing because now you're actually fighting somebody. So one of the biggest hurdles for a lot of people is learning how to breathe when somebody has them mounted, when somebody has their back. Learning how to continue breathing when that happens because what happens to most is when they're trying to produce some type of force, trying to get out of that position, they'll hold their breath and push rather than breathing the whole time sport though because like you're sitting on the guy yeah it's fun yeah yeah it's hard like somebody does something to you and you're like yeah like how do i not make a face and how do i not like

start just like uh you know tightening up so much you know yeah yeah like i don't even know what it is but i mean it it's pretty self-explanatory, but like knee on belly, like how do you breathe through something like that when somebody is like being aggressive with you? Like Belisa talked about, like you, you can still, you can still take full breaths when someone's in knee on belly, just a little bit, um, slower, I'd say like when somebody has me on knee on belly and I'm feeling it, I'm just really breathing slow and making sure I'm breathing through that rather than holding my breath. Like, I think that that's one thing that makes getting through jujitsu easier for people is learning how to relax and learning how to breathe.

Like when I, when, when I got knee on the inner thigh is nasty to me on the inner thigh. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes like someone like kind of climb over you and put their knees in there and it like makes you squirm and then you're fucked. Yeah. Yeah. There are nice places to put your knee on people

where it just makes them squirm. Yeah, yeah. There's this guy, Jack. He has prison jujitsu. He'll do things where he'll fucking just dig his elbow into certain parts of your body just to make you fucking. He's got particularly sharp elbows too. He's probably sharpening them up before he goes to class.

He has sharp everything. But the relaxation thing, I think with a lot of these different things, like with running, with jujitsu, probably with boxing too, because when you think of trying to throw a punch, a lot of guys who are muscle-bound that are trying to throw punches, they're using all their strength. But when we had Alon here and he was saying,

relax, relax, calm it down, relax, that being able to be relaxed in these in different martial arts and in running is one thing that when somebody's able to do that it's like they've gotten to a different level and i know i've i've rolled with people who like their blue belts and purple belts but i'm still like you haven't learned how to breathe and relax yet that's why it's so that's why you're getting fucking gas so easily that's why you're getting wrecked because everything for you is a fucking death grip yeah doing everything uh it's so intense too and it's like maybe you should find some uh maybe you should find some ways to train where it's less intense maybe you need to train maybe you yourself need to uh put out a little less effort so the other guy doesn't like

like if you're gonna match my level right you're gonna match some of my effort like in your case you're a lot you know you know jujitsu so you don't have to but i'm just saying if i was to crank it up then you're gonna crank it up just a bit just to kind of like yeah right and so i'm gonna be fucking my point is i'm gonna be exhausted yeah and then how do i learn from that how do i I grow from that? I kind of can't because I'm going too hard. Like it's good for me to probably practice that here and there. Like that would be good for some percentage of the training I'm imagining, but most of my training should probably be in that 70 to 80% range where I can get a good roll in and where I can actually learn just like

we do with lifting. You have to be able to learn when you're lifting. And I used to tell people, like, if you can't think about the weight weight then you're using too heavy of a weight you should be able to think when you're especially when you're starting out when you're starting out 100 that's 100 true if you can't think about the form and the technique and what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to execute it for all five sets of five the weight's too heavy yeah normally what happens is you get that weight on your back and go, oh, fuck, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do five reps. And then you're not sure if you can get through the next set,

the next set, the next set. And you're just kind of crapping your pants the whole time rather than being able to do a coordinated effort with a good squat. Pat Brodsky, I hope you guys are doing well. Now, we love meat. We love to eat meat on this podcast. We've talked about it. Yeah, we've talked about it a lot.

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well as the podcast show notes let's get back to the podcast dude yeah no you know what's funny when people hear like Bruce Lee talk about martial arts and he's like be like water and all that shit initially it sounds so weirdly esoteric and woo you're like what the fuck but when you know when when you're doing jujitsu when you're doing something initially when you haven't done it a lot you're the thing that you think is going to

allow you to probably tap somebody is by barreling through that brick wall going harder exerting more effort and it's weird that like that is, if somebody's, even if somebody's marginally better than you, that's not going to be probably the thing that really allows you to convincingly beat them. Oddly enough, like I've found that it's relaxing and it's like, it's not meeting force with force.

It's weird. And it sounds so odd, but it's like when I, the big movers for me in terms of allowing me to progress faster was nasal breathing perpetually through because nasal breathing allowed me to stay calmer. Usually when people get in bad positions and you watch jujitsu and you watch people get in bad positions, they usually start reverting to their mouth and their breathing usually starts to get faster and they usually start to gas out. to their mouth and their breathing usually starts to get faster and they usually start to gas out. But when I learned how to nasal breathe, that was a big thing because I was always now relaxed. Even when I was getting tapped, I was like, fuck. Okay. Yeah. So it's not like I immediately started tapping everybody, but I was able to now relax in every situation, even if I was in a bad one. That was one thing. And the second thing is as I did that more, I was able to truly be truly relaxed when

rolling. So for me to, when I turn it up on somebody, it's not that I'm like turning up and exerting more force on them. It's that literally I kind of become lighter. I become quicker. I'm, I'm, I become more and more relaxed. And when somebody is rolling really hard against me, I find it easier to relax more when I'm rolling with them rather than trying to exert more force. It's a weird concept. I don't know how to explain it well. That's the best I can explain it. But what got me over that hump where it really starts to become enjoyable was when it really started becoming something that I could relax through.

Have both of you guys done yoga before? Very little, but yeah. Have you ever heard the way a yoga instructor will talk to you when they talk to you about relaxing and they ask you to relax everything, but they go through it step by step? They'll say, relax your left pinky toe. Relax your right big toe.

Relax your ankles ankles relax your calves they do all that right and you you're not even recognizing that anything's even tight or flexed yeah but when they say it you're like you know you start to turn in like butter you start to kind of like melt yeah and these these are helpful things for me when i'm running you know uh i'll i'll try the techniques just like we talked about with lifting. It's a good idea to be at a percentage where you can think about what you're doing. It's a good idea to be at a pace where you can kind of think about what you're doing. But I think, uh, that one of the worst places to be for running anyway, is to, is to try to think

about being fast. Now that might be like down the road. Like if you're already Ben Johnson, then yeah, you just think of like being fucking quick and you just think of being fast and like I'm just going to fucking smoke everybody. I don't care who's in this race. Maybe those are the thoughts that you have because it's second nature to you now and you got it down.

But when you're newer, I think there's other things to hone in on and other things to focus in on, especially just when you're newer, I think there's other things to hone in on and other things to focus in on, especially just because you're like, you're typically kind of going slow. So people ask me a lot of times about like my pace, like what's your pace? How many miles did you do? And I don't, I don't track anything. And there's many reasons why I don't track anything at the moment, but probably the biggest reason is just because I'm not very good at it yet. Like I want it, like when I, if I, if I start to have, uh, like metrics for this, I want it to kind of matter. Like I'm not, uh, I'm not at like some

level where I need to have this fucking graphed out yet. You know what I mean? I'm not there yet. I don't need a map and a plan and, uh, uh, I just need to kind of like do what's available for the day. If it's available for me to go a little harder and go a little faster and I can push and I can go to a point where I'm forced to breathe, you know, breathe in the nose and out the mouth, that's like a good, that's a good spot for me to be in for some runs. Other runs, I should be able to crank through the whole thing with nasal breathing. There might be some times where I go to the track and I work on doing, I'll just call it a run rather than a sprint, but I'll do like, you know, 400 meter runs. And I'll try to get, I'll actually

check on my phone to kind of like see a time and then just be like, just keep a pace like that each time you, you know, each time you go around, give it, uh, three, four minutes rest. But I think for me, if I try to think about going fast because I, uh, don't have a great skillset at the moment for sprints that I'm, I'm going, I'm most likely going to have some sort of injury. That's going to be a soft tissue injury. And I know I could pull that out of my head too and say, hey, forget that. That's not going to happen to you. But it's just the reality of it.

Like my body's tight. I'm still working on kind of decompressing my body from all the years of lifting. And it's just kind of where I'm at. But I'm better off thinking of like, oh, let's kick the leg back more. Like let's kick the leg back behind the body more. Let's see if we can get the foot to be further away from the body, or let's see if we can bring the knee up a little bit more. I've been looking into a lot of stuff from pose running,

and so just kind of leaning forward and bringing the knee up and things like that. I can just think about form and technique, and then what happens off of that. I end up being faster. Same thing I'm sure with jujitsu where you're like, wow, look at this. I relaxed. I did what coach fucking told me to do. I did what, you know, seven other guys told me this fucking the last three weeks in a row. I finally listened to him. I finally relaxed. Now I'm in a good position to finally tap this fucking guy out. That's a fun little parallel though, between what you're finding with running and what I found with jujitsu that like, we're both pretty big,

pretty strong individuals, right? Uh, who've had a good background of weight training. You much, so much so more than me, but the initial, the initial want is to potentially barrel through, barrel through places where maybe your technique isn't there. Right. So with running, it's like, you're feeling something like, let me just fucking run through this. Let me just speed up. Cause you have the muscle to do it, but you find when you do that, ah, shit, you know what I mean? And initially when I was like developing a jujitsu, like the big thing was, you know, you don't want to use a lot of strength to do things. You can get away with a lot of things being strong, but if you develop that way, you will, guys that have way better technique than you, or that are way smaller than

you will absolutely eat you up because you've been relying on your brute force. Like you have to learn how to back off. They get excited when they see the big guy in there. They do because, you know, the trend is, and it's true that the big guy typically resorts to that when he gets in trouble. And when he resorts to it, a lot of times it works out, but it doesn't help his jujitsu at all. So that's just what he's developing. So now when he comes across somebody who's just techniquing his ass, he doesn't know how to get out of it. So it's not that you would need to exert more force, especially- You need to get madder. You get madder. Yeah. Get super mad.

Just fucking Hulk out, bro. He's got to get you somewhere. No, there are some guys, but, but that's the thing. It's like you, when you roll with somebody like that, you can feel it. Like you can. And the funny thing is that they're easier to move. I'm not gonna, I'm not throwing any shade here, but this is what I felt when I rolled with Chad. When I rolled with Chad, after the match, I was very surprised about how easy it felt,

but it was because he was like a tense ball. It was very easy to move his body one way or the other because he was exerting so much force in one direction that I was like, I'm just going to sweep you this way, and then I'll sweep you that way. So it's hard if you're already a muscle bound person, not to resort to just perpetually using that muscle. But when you learn how to like use technique and jujitsu, first off, it gets way more fun. But then when you actually need to start laying some shit down and adding some of your force behind it, it should get scary. It should get really scary. But I wanted to know this from you

because all your life you've lifted and you've been an athlete. But lifting was the thing that you really focused on. When somebody usually does something new, they quit early because they have a belief that they're not in trend. They don't have the they don't have it. Right. So when a lot of bigger guys, I think it's cool that we're seeing a lot of guys like yourself, Sam Okunola. I mean, there's Nick Bear. There's a lot of people that are coming from lifting to running and doing pretty well. But what made you actually stick with it and not have the belief that you're just not a good runner? Because I see this a lot when people start jujitsu,

they'll start and then they'll stop some people three months, some people right after they get their blue belt. And I'll ask why later. They're like, it's just really not for me. And maybe for some people, it's really not for them. But when I look at how their development was, it's like they didn't get to that point where it fell over the hump. They weren't over that hump, right? Because they thought that they should be better than they already are.

That's one thing. You think you're supposed to be gifted or something, right? Because they thought that they should be better than they already are. That's one thing, like you think you're supposed to be gifted or something, right? So why have you still stuck with running? Because you've gotten over a hump already. But what allowed you to just stick with it? You know, there's plenty of reasons to quit. There's plenty of reasons to stop because you don't get better at it right away and it does take it does take a lot of work um fuck man i mean i remember being out on like many runs and just being like man i still can't breathe that good are you serious like this is crazy um and you know again luckily i had like a lifting background to where you you know, I wasn't totally dying every time I ran.

And luckily, I built up a lot of sets and reps in the gym that trained my mind as well to where I know when I can push and I know kind of when I should. Also, yeah, I know when it's like, hey, this is not smart. Like, this is ridiculous. Like, don't fucking do that. Like, there's days where I've had to miss. There's days where I've had to stop. There's days where I've gone out on a run and I've literally had to stop

and just be like, why don't you finish out the rest of this and just walk, you know, finish out the rest of this with a walk. And that's fucking today you know hopefully you can start over tomorrow and uh you know the big key for me was uh just staying healthy so i can do it consistently enough so i can get the breathing part down uh if you're not breathing well you when you're running and you're really out of breath it's really frustrating and it's

demoralizing i actually think that you're probably more apt to get hurt that way too when you're not breathing well. I would imagine your body's a little stiffer. I would imagine your perceived effort is higher. It's like at a nine when it should be like probably at like a seven. Yeah. So there's a lot of things I've learned. And more recently, I've been kind of developing this idea and this theory.

And it's something I've always had when I was lifting. I just didn't know how to articulate it. But I think for people that are new to anything, you can get so much out of some mediocre effort. Your effort doesn't have to be fucking crazy. Your effort just needs to probably be above about 60%. So that's an effort. That's you getting out of bed and you fucking showing up. But because you're new, the gains are new,

and they're available to everybody. So if you can talk yourself into putting up a 6 out of 10 on the scoreboard, then you're doing a really good job. And can you do a six a couple times a week? If you can, most likely that six will represent something that you can stick with because you're going to be able to recover from it. the six will become a seven and so on. And you're going to be able to push up your, you don't, you're not trying to push up your hundred percent. You're trying to push up like your 90 and 95% so that you can get to a point where you can train there every once in a while. Because once you can train in that zone and once you can get there, once you can go to San Jose and roll with other people and see other people that are different belts and roll with black belts and roll with brown belts and then you go, oh, I wonder, like, that's pretty interesting. I wonder how it would do with, like, the rest of the people in the state or even in this country or even in the world. being able to train in an 80 to like 90 90 percent ish range um where you can do it sort of easily and the recovery is effortless what that will do for your brain is is hard for me to put into words

but you'll feel like you got fucking launched to the moon it will feel incredible you'll never have felt anything like that before in your life yeah because can't be outsourced. You can't buy it. It's not a pill. It's not a bottle. It's not mind bowl. It's not fucking magic mushrooms. It's not, you can't get it anywhere. You have to go and get it yourself and you do it through movement. That's why I'm so excited about all this. But like, once you feel that, then I'm like, all right, well, I don't know if this is too big of a statement but i actually think i can be pretty good at running to a point where i think i could put up some numbers with running to where people are going to go that's pretty wild like that's fucking they're not just going to say hey

that's good because he's old that's good because it's going to actually be something where people are like no no that's like legit like i know that i can run a 400 meter in under a minute like it's gonna take me a little bit of time but i know that i can do that i know that i'll be able to do a six minute mile it's just gonna take me some time how much time i can't make any guarantees on that but two three years from now i think i'll have have it done already but the dope thing that you just said right there, though, is like two, three years from now, man, the, the giving, the giving yourself the time to actually achieve that. That's one thing. And I'm in no rush. You're not in a rush, man. I don't want to hurt. I don't want to go out and hurt myself. I'll be reduced to nothing. Yeah. And that's one thing, you know, because initially, like maybe with anything, somebody tries to push pretty hard in the

beginning and they hurt themselves and maybe they hurt themselves a few times. They're like, oh, this is just dangerous. No, maybe you were pushing too hard, right? Maybe you were doing things a little bit too erratically. You didn't give yourself enough time to recover and you just kept bashing your head against the wall and thinking you could break through it. That's not necessarily the best way to go about it. But the big thing there is that you're giving yourself a time. And even if it doesn't happen in two to three years, number one, you're going to be way better two to three years than you are from now. And maybe you'll have a better gauge of like, if it's not three, this is where I am at year three.

Okay. Maybe I can, I can see it happening at year four, but there's this, there's this idea of this much time. And when it comes to, when it comes to a lot of this, especially as an adult, and you touched on something earlier, I'll let you mention it, but especially as an adult, you're too aware of how long something is taking for you to become somewhat competent. And because you're so aware that, wow, I'm six months in, I'm not really that good yet. I'm a year in, I'm not that good yet. You don't give yourself the time to become decent because you're thinking about how bad you are and how much better everybody else is.

You're trying to be great. You're trying to be great. But when you're a kid, that thought never fucking occurs because when you're a kid, you might have some things you're decent at, but you do something. Just like Kador said, I'm nine, coach.

Yeah, luckily for me, I started lifting, I'm nine coach. Right? Yeah. Luckily for me, I, you know, I started lifting when I was pretty young. I think the three of us got exposed to exercise, got exposed to some, some sort of sport or lifting like pretty young. And it was at least like in our family, we saw somebody else do it. We admired some people that were jacked. And we, we also, I think

somewhere in our head is probably implanted in our head. Like, oh, that that's kind of like for older people. Like, like when you're not old, but like when you're 20 or 25, that's when you'll look like you really lift. You're not going to look like you really lift when you're 14 or 15 normally. Right. Unless you're like fucking Arnold or something like that. But for the most part, like you kind of surrender that fact and you know that you can get some biceps and your arms could be bigger than your buddies and your bench press could be a little stronger or your squat or something.

You know some of that stuff. But I think you're also smart enough to kind of identify like, oh, the adults, like the professional bodybuilders, they're like 30 years old, you know, they're not, they're not 14. So I think you identify like that this is going to take a long time. And then also when you start something when you're young, you know, a lot of kids, they do want to, they want to feel good when they do something. So they want to feel like they're doing a great job with it. Like a little kid, eight, nine years old,

they're going to say, hey, look, look at me, look at me, dad, look at me, check this out. Check out the way I can spin in the air when I jump in the pool. And most of the time you go and you watch them and you're like, you didn't even spin, bro. You suck at that. Shit, try again. You turned your head.

Yeah, all you do is turn your head. You don't say that to a kid, though. You're like, hey, that was great. And it feels good to them. You know, you're not saying like they're great at anything. You're just saying, hey, that's great. Like, that's cool. It looks like they're having fun, right?

And they keep doing it over and over again. But you don't really understand or recognize that you're not that good at it because you're not an adult yet. When you're an adult is when you start to compare yourself to everybody else. And you're like, I can't jump the way that that guy does. So then you don't barely even try, like you're reserved now because somebody, you know, jumped up on top of the reverse hyperextension at their gym. You're not even going to try a box jump onto a 20 inch box. And it's like, well, maybe that guy has been practicing jumping for many years. Maybe it's bend the bounce, or maybe it's somebody that used to play some basketball or something like that. And they have a history of that.

So I think when you're a kid, you can also identify the fact like, I'm just a kid. Like, you know, I didn't care. Like I remember, I don't really remember some of the beginnings of, of working out, but I do remember practicing with the bar. And I remember going into the gym, going into Mid-Hudson bodybuilding in Poughkeepsie, New York, and putting 45s on each side of the bar and then having older guys come over and pull it off. And they would rack it. And then I was like, somebody took my weights and I put the 45 back on. Guy came right back over while I'm standing there. He took the 45s off. And I was like, am I doing something wrong?

Or like, you know, what? And I was like, I'm just trying to bench press. He's like, you're going to start with 135? He's like, you're a kid. He's like, what do you lift? I was like, I don't know. Like, I think at the time I might have done 185 or something like that. He's like, you don't start with 135 when you can, he goes,

there's a bunch of guys in here that bench 500. There's a couple of guys here that bench 550. He's like, we all always start with the bar. So start with the bar. And then they would see me lift. And then I would start to lift like shit because I'd put too much weight on. And again, they'd come over and take the weight off. And I was like, can you show me how to, can you just show me how to bench? Cause I don't think I know what I'm doing. They're like, we were waiting for you to ask that question. Cause you don't know what you're doing. You're benching like crap. So they wouldn't let me do the reps and stuff, but I didn't care at a young age that I was doing it wrong. I was just excited to be doing it in the first place. And then I was

grateful that those guys showed me kind of how to do it. Dude, we underestimate what we can learn and get good at as an adult because there's so many things like there's this, you know, your brain is more plastic when you're younger, right? And kids pick things up faster. This is something that you hear perpetuated. And, you know, maybe there are aspects of it that are true. But to be perfectly honest, I really choose not to believe that because I think that as an adult, we're actually in a better position to pick up new things and learn new things. Because we're smarter. Generally, you'd hope that you're smarter as an adult than a kid. Hopefully, you can learn to look for, to compare, right? And to look at, oh, okay, I can do this and I can do this to speed up my progress

and I can do this. You can really do that well as an adult, whereas as a kid, you're just like, let me just try everything and get fucked up. But as an adult, you have the ability to actually course correct and learn. I think as a kid, you don't remember the time. You don't remember how much time it took.

Yes, you don't remember how much time it took. So it might seem like kids learn shit fast, but like kids, you know, they, I mean, look, if you're talking about like a language or something like that, that's a little bit more difficult because some people grow up with two languages in their household and they do it from a young age. But again, that's not as fast as you think either. It took just as long for the kid to learn Spanish as it did English. Yeah. It took the same amount of time.

And I think that's our perception as adults needs to change on what happens when we're learning new things. I truly think most adults don't believe that they can learn new things well and quickly because they have this implanted belief that like- It reminded me of a clip. Have you guys seen the clip with Kenny KO and Michael Hearn? No, I haven't. Let's see if we can- Have you seen it, Andrew? I'm so curious i mean i've seen one i'm not sure if it's the one that it's not a hundred percent related to what

we're talking about yeah o'hearn like he kind of crushed him right yeah i mean they did neither guy got a chance to really explain what exactly what they were talking about so uh but uh kenny ko is like it's a fact when you older, your testosterone levels go down. Mike's like, nope. He's like, it's not a fact. And he's like, no, it's a fact. Your testosterone level. So it's just, again, Mike didn't have an opportunity

to really explain what he meant even further. But again, who the fuck cares about what he was going to explain or not explain if he has that in his own head? Because I think, so most people are associating it right with the testosterone levels being lower i'm not going to be as active sexually my dick's not going to be able to get as hard as often uh i'm not going to be able to lift and hold the same amount of muscle mass and all that but like yeah we know mike like he's a fucking denier of

this stuff regardless of what you think about whether he takes stuff or doesn't take stuff the guy's mindset that that's what i think people are missing with michael hearn they're missing they're missing out on so much there's a lot of fans that get it and that see it but they're missing out on the mindset this guy's mindset is really powerful i think this is the clip so hopefully it is oh yeah there you, there we go. Well, no. You've never been Natty, right? Isn't that what they're saying? A troll meets a troll.

What is that? Okay, okay, let's do it control-harder. Ready, go! You're like the Homelander. That's fucked. Maybe all the trend in the closet, though, is kind of like Homelander skeletons. That's what happened.

The superpower was the trend, which is cool, and that's why I'm the one guy still doing it. Are you actually on like CRT though? What would be the point though? I mean because men's hormone levels dip as they get older. No they don't. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because you found the bottom of you. No, no, because you guys say that. And so the idea. No, that's medical science. No, it isn't. Let me show you a guy that's at 740 at 58 years old. Right, but what was his levels when he was 30? Probably the same.

But were you natural when you were in your team? Well, how could I compete throughout my entire career doing drug tests and TV shows? So is the legend the Titan? Yo. So they went on a little bit further, and then he ended up bringing uh mona over like you know right after having a baby yeah and he was just like how come she's in better shape than you are she just had a you know a baby and you know she's natty too and you're not like so he kind of like went pretty hard on him but yeah it was uh yeah it was it was pretty good hey why not you know what just like

why not have that mindset what's it hurt the hurt anything to the two the hurt anything to be like michael hearn just be like i'm still gonna show up to the gym at 4 a.m every morning i don't care about how old everybody thinks i am or or what people perceive how I should act and how I should be because I'm in my early 50s. Dude, we know. Keep going to work. Yeah. We know that what you believe about certain things is going to affect. It can affect your hormones.

It can affect the way you act. It can affect the way you go through life. And there's so many of these, like Kenny, he's nice and all. Greg Doucette, he's nice and all. And Doucette, he's nice and all. And, you know, like these dudes are super nice. We talked about this shit. I just think that they're making people have really weak mindsets because they're saying, oh, this is just scientifically true.

Your testosterone is going to go down as you age, this and this and this. And when you're an adult, you're going to be so quick. This is just how, how we, I think generally are, especially now you're going to be very quick to try to figure out the reasons why you can't do a certain thing or the reasons why something is going to be difficult for you or the reasons why some guy's doing something better than you are currently. You're going to be quicker to believe and do that rather than trying to figure out the ways that you can actually really how can I do? That how can I learn that?

How can I speed up my progress and when guys are saying the fastest way to speed up your progress is getting on some TRT Bro, you want your test up get on some TRT, bro You're gonna be quicker to do that then quicker to try to figure out anything else as far as your lifestyle It's I I don't think it's necessarily bad that they're saying all of those things necessarily, even Kenny saying your test goes down as you age. But I know that I'm not going to act like that. I know that the actions that I take every day is not going to be the actions of a guy whose testosterone is going down as he ages. I'm going to keep doing everything I'm doing, getting good good sleep working my ass off as far as in the gym moving i'll give you an example i don't believe in jet lag i just don't believe in it i

don't fucking buy into it yeah like i understand i think okay you traveled so your sleep is off your actual sleep is off but you're not like fatigued because you traveled somewhere necessarily yeah and then everyone's like oh the time's different and all this you you probably just missed like in the course of you know let's say two days you're supposed to get about 16 hours of sleep you're just probably a little shy you're probably like 14 hours or 12 hours like your shit got a little disrupted but because i don't believe in jet lag i'm here the next day you know doing a podcast or lifting and a lot of times even when i travel i'm here the same day like i'll have traveled from uh you know i don't know flying from somewhere land here and i'm like oh shit it's only like

one o'clock i'm gonna go to the gym and yeah okay i am a little uh fatigued but i'm only fatigued because i had to wake up super early not fatigued because of fucking jet lag yeah no dude this is the thing though the things that you're saying right there it's hard to try to convince somebody as far as science is concerned you know especially when you're super science-minded you're super research-based a lot of your actions are then based off of what the research says. You only sleep halfway when you're traveling and you're in a hotel according to some of the sleep books. Straight up. I really think a lot of that shit makes, just makes, will make us weaker if we truly buy into it. I'm not saying that you should be oblivious and that you should, you should try to be stupid, but I think there are some things where you just,

I honestly turn a blind eye to a lot of things because I'm just like, I don't believe it. I'm just going to keep doing this. I don't believe you. I don't care what your fucking reachers says. I don't believe you. I'm not going to allow myself to believe you. Cause if I believe what you're saying, I'm going to be weaker. So you don't believe in science and logic. Apparently. Yeah. I don't believe in science and logic. I dig it. Oh man. Well, that was like when we had Ramsey on the show and he was talking about people doing a 360 dunk, taking the ball in between their legs and fucking jamming it down.

And then someone's like, well, they have poor movement patterns. Yeah. Like what? Poor movement patterns according to what? According to some study that showed you needed to walk this particular way or run this particular way or whatever. I think we should tell like obviously we should pay attention to these things but we really need to be very especially as adults because as kids you just go through life you just do shit and even jesse norris jesse norris i think is the prime example

because when he did his podcast with you didn't he say that he was just training in the gym with his brother and he for some reason they just like doing sets of 10 or 15 and when like everybody thought he was on drugs for a while i think he actually ended up doing stuff later right but he was doing some ridiculous shit when he was natty just because he was alone in his garage with his sibling training that way for years he did a 585 deadlift here with an axle bar for a set of 10. Ouch. Weighing 185 pounds, 190 pounds. I've never seen anything like that in my life.

Oh, my gosh. His training was just volume, volume, volume. But if he was perpetually watching the fitness YouTube you have now or a lot of content creators that talk about powerlifting, he'd be like, oh i do that i'll get injured if he truly believed that he would have fucked himself up but he was just training right right so it's like as an adult you gotta you should pay attention but then you should also just be like ah fuck it bilbo swaggins is that his name what's his name no that's his name? No, that's John Hack. John Hack. There you go.

But what's his name on Instagram? Yeah, Bill Bow Swaggins. Bill Bow Swaggins. Yeah, he's unbelievable. He just lifts as heavy as he can every time he goes. I mean, every week it's like 794, 826, 826 for two, 795 for three, bench 600. It's comical, dude. Bench 585.

You're like, what the fuck? What about our boy, too, Jeremy Avila? Yeah. He just smashed like an 820-something deadlift a couple days ago, right? So here's John Hack. Come on, John Hack. Would you please stop? It's just-

It's 650 for how many? I don't know. It's just gross. And what did he do? He did something here. Little mishap. Okay. No spotter or nothing?

Oh, no. He's about to mess up the rack. Oh, I think the re-rack. Oh, my God. Okay, he saved himself. But still. He did that super easy. There's a lot of people that would have got fucking murdered under 650 like that.

John Hack doesn't get enough. I mean, he gets credit in our sport, but I wish he was known on a larger scale, larger level. Yeah. The strength that this guy has. What does he compete? 198, 181.

Here he's mentioned 584. I mean, this is just gross how strong he is. It's fucking awesome. People are so annoyed during the podcast when he was asked about his program and he was like, I really don't know. I just kind of go in and have an idea of what i'm gonna hit and i don't hit it okay if i feel it okay like i've never seen a video of him being like i'm just gonna do dumbbells today he's just like i uh i go put weight on the bar i put a lot of it i pick it up

and i put it down i don't think he lets other people's performance or what other people's doing doesn't let that fuck with him no because then he would pat himself on the back way too much if he did i'm serious because then he'd be like fuck 876 damn all right i'm good you know i don't have to do anything else but he probably did literally just bent down and pick that up like that's it again that's as like hard as that was for him he just is like yeah i'm gonna bend down and like it's uh like you just drop something yeah on the ground oh fuck there's my keys yeah what the fuck dude it's so sick also how he doesn't he he's not it doesn't look like he's hyping you know he's just like oh yeah he's just yeah he's just okay he's just that strong yeah man yeah oh man jacked uh i did want to uh go back to what you were talking about like as adults like

we we don't like learn shit anymore or whatever like we just we have we're kind of stuck in our own ways and then that's that but one thing i wanted to point out is like when you are a kid you don't really understand how some things do work. And as an adult, you've already learned how to learn. So just like a very. I think you've learned how to learn. Yeah. Yeah.

A very simple like stupid thing like the other day, like somebody invited me to join a fantasy football league. And I'm like, oh, I don't know. That's not my thing. They're like, oh, it's just for bragging rights. Like, you know, you watch football, so no big deal. And I'm like, dude, I don't know anything about fantasy football yeah and so i'm like oh i've i've been in a position where i didn't know how to do something and then i learned how oh let me go to youtube and so it's like oh fuck i have a bunch of like i have so many resources now you know are you in a league so i

don't i mean i don't even know yet i haven't gotten the the invite from the commissioner people get a lot of people have a lot of fun with that people People get way into it. Yeah. But like, I'm just using that as a silly example as to like something new that I have no idea how to do. Oh wait, I know how to learn information on it. I just go to, go to YouTube. But like as adults, like we, we already understand how to learn things. We just have to go back and do it. You know, as kids, we didn't, we just picked it up along the way. I think another big problem too is like when people when they do try something um they might be stubborn like as an adult they might be stubborn to like really listening to people yeah or like like let's say you're trying

to get into lifting let's say you're trying to get in lifting and you've tried lifting several times and you don't understand it like man people keep talking to me about it they keep talking about bone density and how it's the best way to get in good shape and it's great for longevity and all this stuff supposed to be good for your mind i don't get it i've tried it a bunch of times well i can hire a trainer hire a coach hire somebody to kind of show you how to do it be receptive to what to what they're showing you for myself with running I left out this part this is super important is that I was really open to trying a lot of different things with my running and I still am because I'm still so new

to it but people keep asking like how are you running and how are your knees staying healthy or your ankles and stuff? Well, first of all, I don't buy into, like, oh, you're too heavy to run. There's people that are 300 pounds that run every day. There's some big people out there that move really, really well. And so, I mean, I've seen every once in a while I'll see somebody out running and they're like 6'4", 6'5". They probably weigh a good 250 and they're out there, you know, running really well. Um, so I'm not going to pigeonhole myself with that kind of stuff, but I'm also going to learn if I'm going to run, I'm going to commit to the,

to running, then I'm not going to assume that I know how to run. So I'm going to learn how to run. That's how I've been able to stay healthy. I don't have any injuries. I feel amazing. Every time I run, I have some old injuries from powerlifting, some old things that are just tight or whatever, but I feel incredible. I can go and run every single day, anytime I want. I can run multiple times a day. I mean, there's been a bunch of different days where I'm like, I should go run again. And I have done that before, run twice in one day and things like that because I feel good. But take care of knowing how to execute whatever the thing is that you're going to try to do and be really open to examining it

through YouTube or having a coach or having somebody help you, listening to a podcast about it, buying an ebook, whatever it might be. There's also a really weird thing about like, the way education is set up in terms of school. You get to 12th grade and then maybe you go to college. But when you get to 12th grade, even if you do or maybe go to college, if you get out of college, I know a lot of people who haven't been doing anything new since they've gotten their job out of college. I think for a lot of times it's set up in a way, or maybe in the back of your mind, you're like learning is kind of done, right? I've learned everything I need to learn

to now be able to be successful in life, even though now we've learned, like people have been realizing how fucked that is in some cases, you know what I mean? But it's, the learning thing needs to be lifelong. There's this book I was reading, I finished, it's called Successful Aging. It's by this guy, Daniel J. Levitin, Successful Aging. And he was talking about how

individuals that are like professors or people who tend to not get Alzheimer's or who have diminished amounts of that are also people who keep working at stuff. Like they're continuing to learn new things or continuing to teach things. And that there's a higher occurrence of Alzheimer's and those types and dementia when people stop, you know, when they stop teaching or when they stop their job, they stop the thing that's keeping them cognitively, you know, going engaged and then boom, things start to regress. Right. So as an adult and as you go into your senior years, that's like, I think we've talked about

the whole retiring thing. I don't look at, I'm never gonna retire. You know what I mean? Because I wanna keep doing shit until I die. You know, the goal is to keep doing jujitsu until I die. And all this shit, all this learning and stuff we're doing, I wanna keep doing it because I know that, number one, there's too much shit to try to learn. I'm never going to learn all of it. I'll never gonna, I'm never going to understand everything, but if I can keep myself

engaged as an adult and trying new things and learning new things and getting good at new things, I'm just going to age better. You know, I really think it is. I think there's a bullshit aspect to the way people expect us to age because a lot of those statistics are based off of the way most people live. Most people do live in a certain way that causes them to have some type of decline in testosterone in their mind and their movement. But we're not doing that. We're doing new things for movement. We're learning new things all the time. We are having great lifestyles in terms of everything we do. We're going to fucking age differently. Get that book, Successful Aging. You guys will like it. Did you ever get some distance between jujitsu practices where you were like, I got to suck it up and go again?

Did you ever have a month or two off or something like that in the beginning? Not in the beginning, no. If anything like that, that only ever happened when I had that surgery. And the only times where I maybe didn't go for it. And you still got around it. Oh, yeah. And you still watched it on YouTube and stuff. Yeah.

And you remember when I had that. I was like, it was in the old gym and I was still fucking doing stuff on that leg to speed up my recovery so I could get back to it. The only times I've ever not gone for a week is if I knew, okay, I have this injury that I can't roll, so I just can't go this week. But I've never gone. I don't think I've ever gone more than a week without doing jiu-jitsu. And if that happens. That's rare. That's pretty fucking rare.

If you made a habit of going to the gym, don't stop. If you made a habit of running, don't stop. If you made a habit of going to jujitsu. Because when you stop, that initial startup again is a lot. Yeah. And almost like a walk-run. Once you learn how to run and you can run well enough uh walking and running is actually harder to me i think it is like i don't like

i kind of get pissed that i have to stop but some days that's just what i'm some days i'm just like this is what's kind of calling to me and this is what i'm going to do i'm going to push my runs to be faster and it would be wise for me to walk in between. So I will do it. But stopping during a jog in particular to get that inertia to start up again kind of takes a lot. And after a while, you're kind of like if you do it like a handful of times during like a three to five mile walk run, you get kind of – you guys, we've done it before. It's like kind of annoying. run you you get kind of you you guys we've done it before it's like kind of annoying and and sometimes what happens too is like the the initial run because you're just not used to it the initial run that you did in the beginning for the first you know 10 minutes on and off with the walk run

you start to feel it by the time you're finishing up 30 minutes later like almost like you're sore stiff from it rather than like loosened up from it yeah what will happen over time is like it'll become a lot easier and that it will just be a warm-up to you you know you'll just be like oh i'm gonna do i'm i mean i hear people you guys probably heard runners say this before and you're like what is the guy talking about like yeah i usually go out on the track i run like two miles and i start my then i start my workout and you're like guy ran two miles i'd be dead if i can you're like, guy ran two miles. I'd be dead if I can go home. But that's when they start doing their 200s and their 400s or something like that.

So if you are somebody that is getting involved in especially running, you just don't stop. Like you go on vacation, find somewhere to run. All you have access to is a treadmill treadmill figure out a way to fucking run you know it's snowing outside whatever the situation is figure out a way to get your heart rate up even if it's just on a elliptical or a bike or whatever uh do something that is similar to running because to start it back up again it would really like i'm lucky i haven't had to do that but but I know some people that try that. And, and I seen it with the gym before too. It's like, oh, they come back around. They've been in for a couple of months. They hit the groove a little bit and then they're back out.

And then every time they have to start back up again, it's harder. And every time they start back up again, they're heavier, unfortunately. And you're like, oh man, I'd love to see this person just commit to like being here as much as they need to so that they can stay more connected to it. So don't ever get unfit from it. Yeah, dude, that right there, that's a big deal because it's like, I think when you, when you start to become good at something and then something takes you out of it, I know COVID, I remember you were asking, there's a period that there was a stoppage. you out of it. I know COVID, I remember you were asking, there's a period that there was a stoppage. COVID, there was a while where there was no rolling going on, right? So that was actually,

that was a few months. And when I went back, number one, I didn't feel as swift. I didn't feel as quick, right? But there were a lot of people who came back and then just left again because they probably, they came back and they weren't feeling as good as before they left. And they just kind of trickled off. And there's some people that haven't been back since COVID, right? So you gotta be okay. Just like when people get injured or when you have surgery or, you know, coming off of a meet, you gotta be okay with not feeling the greatest for a while when you're, you're adapting to things again, or your body's getting used to it. It's like, it's not like, you know, I think one interesting thing is when you do something for a period of time, there's a few, there's a few weeks when like, maybe it feels really difficult. This is like, you felt it in lifting when there are a few weeks where the

lifts are just way heavier. There's a few weeks in jujitsu where fuck, I'm just way more fatigued. And then you take a few days off, you come back. You're like, oh, I feel good. There's this fatigue performance thing that continues to happen. It comes in waves. You've got to be okay with just continuing to move through that and just not necessarily stopping. It's probably not the best answer to just stop altogether. Want to take us on out of here, Andrew?

Sure thing. Thank you, everybody everybody for checking out today's episode. Please, before you go, hit that like button and drop us a comment down below and subscribe if you guys are not subscribed already. And for you guys on the Spotify side, hopefully you're enjoying the new video up on there. We appreciate you guys that have been listening over there on Spotify. So please rate and review us while you guys are there as well. And follow the podcast at MB PowerProject on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter. My Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter

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