Mark Bell's Power Project - How To Stay Lean While Eating More ft. The Online Coach || MBPP Ep. 1024

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

In episode 1024, Raymond "The Online Coach" Querido, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about how Raymond has so many successful transformation stories from his clients by prescribing more calories and even regularly scheduled cheat days. We also learn how running has allowed Raymond to stay leaner without trying and even eating more. Follow The Online Coach on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theonlinecoach/   Official Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below! The Athletic/Casual Clothes we're wearing! 🕺 ➢ https://vuori.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori!   💤 The Best Cooling Mattress in the GAME! 🛌 ➢ https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep!   🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save up to 25% off your Build a Box ➢ Piedmontese Beef: https://www.CPBeef.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   Best STYLISH Barefoot Casual/Training Shoes! 👟 ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject to save 15% off Vivo Barefoot shoes!   🩸 Get your BLOODWORK Done! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com/PowerProject to receive 10% off our Panel, Check Up Panel or any custom panel!   Best 5 Finger Barefoot Shoes! 👟 ➢ https://Peluva.com/PowerProject Code POWERPROJECT15 to save 15% off Peluva Shoes!   Sleep Better and TAPE YOUR MOUTH (Comfortable Mouth Tape) 🤐 ➢ https://hostagetape.com/powerproject to receive a year supply of Hostage Tape and Nose Strips for less than $1 a night!   🥶 The Best Cold Plunge Money Can Buy 🥶 ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained:      You Need Greens in your Life 🥦 ➢https://drinkag1.com/powerproject Receive a year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 & 5 Travel Packs!   ➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!   ➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en   Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz   #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

The running has been a game changer for body composition wise. It's allowed me to stay lean and eat a lot more. You did mention that you're a fan of like cheat meals and cheat days. I think you just need that mental break if you want to continue to keep digging and getting leaner. You can't just dig, dig, dig, dig and not have any fun. As bodybuilders, you don't think about hydration. Running forced me to learn about hydration. What are some things you learned from powerlifting?

You need to get stronger. As a natural, if you're not getting stronger, your physique is not going to change over the years. How do you help some of these individuals who are like maybe kind of starting almost at square one? I'm always going to prescribe higher calories. Every new lifter should dirty bowl, feel how strong you get,

how fat you get and jump out of the shower. You don't even want to look at yourself. That's a good dirty bowl. Power Project family, we've had some amazing guests on this podcast like Kurt Engel, Tom Segura, Andrew Hooperman, and we want to be able to have more amazing guests on this podcast, and you can help it grow by leaving us a quick rating and review on Spotify and iTunes. If you're listening to the podcast, just go ahead and give us a review. Let us know how you dig it and help the podcast grow so we can keep growing with y'all and bring you amazing information. Enjoy the show. Good workout today.

That was awesome. It's always good having a bodybuilder in here. Yep. But you've been doing, we're recording, right? Yep. You've been doing, you've been switching over to some running. What have been some things that have, has anything kind of gotten in your way or you've transitioned over into running and it's not too bad? It transitioned pretty smooth, man, besides the knee pain. kind of gotten in your way or you've transitioned over into running and it's not too bad it

transitioned pretty smooth man besides the uh the knee pain right but focusing more on uh technique really helped but the running has been a game changer for body composition wise i found that gray area where i can eat a lot more and seemen knows yeah right like you either eating you're either in a nice deficit starving yourself or you're in the off season bulking right but like with the running it'll it's allowed me to stay lean and eat a lot more before running did you find it was it hard like did you really have to try to stay lean? Yeah, I did. And now you don't find that you're not really needing to try because of the running?

Because I can eat a lot more. Yeah. I'm a fat kid at heart. Like, I like to eat, man. Same. Like, portion-wise. Like, I don't go to In-N-Out and have a cute little double-double. I fucking have three.

Three double-doubles or, like, two three-by-threes, a milkshake, fries. That's how I like to eat. Oh, that's good. That's how I like to eat. Oh, that's good. That's how I like to eat. That's good. You like to get after it with the food. Yeah. I wonder why that's such a big problem.

I mean, I guess girls are like shamed and it's kind of harder for them just to eat the way that we eat as men. But as men, it seems like a lot of guys like to just really fucking good after it when it comes to the food. It's the muscle. I asked my wife. I'm like, you can be with a guy that eats like a hamburger and a water or you want to be with a guy with three double doubles and a milkshake. She's like, the guy with three double doubles, right? You don't want to eat the same as your girl. But, I mean, your wife was the first Miss Bikini Olympia, right, in the NPC.

Yeah. IFBB. Yeah, yeah. Yo, that's crazy, dude. 2010. That's wild. The first ever. And she kicks your ass in running.

Yeah. I was telling him that she's been running for 10 years, and I always hated running. Oh, shit. So she would always go out for runs. I'm like, how many miles are you running? I'm like, four. I'm like, fuck, I can't even run one. And then finally, we moved to Vegas, and it's always hot over there,

and everybody's just running with their shirts off. I'm like, I'm going to try. I'm going to try one mile. I was dying. And then I started doing my own research on form and technique, how to just run better. and I just started nerding out and just getting obsessed with getting better and then finally I caught up

I was like, I'm going to run with you I was ready. Yeah, once you can run beyond about 15 to 20 minutes straight, then it starts to click over and then you get obsessed with it and then you, a lot of people end up running a little too much and did you get into that?

Did you run into like wanting to run every day and maybe just overdoing it? I did. I more got like into the zone of buying shoes. I have this rack of running shoes. But like it works out because I've always been like a shoe whore, right? Buying shoes with all kinds of different colorways but like they would just sit in the closet. You got any stuff we can pull up as some of that on YouTube? No, man.

I would just flash that stuff on my story on Instagram. But the cool thing about running shoes is you actually use them, right? I look at them as like tires, right? There's a mileage that you hit and you got to retire them. And then there's like a rotation. When you rotate them, you're actually using them for different runs. Right. So it's like a good way to justify spending that money on the shoes.

Quick question. What's the average mileage on a running shoe? I would say like 250, 300, depending on the type of shoe. So you use it for like 100 and get rid of it, huh? No. Oh, you actually put it through its paces? Yeah. Because I'm like, you probably want to get new shoes.

Yeah, yeah. No, no. I actually put them through. Okay. But like the Because I'm like, you probably want to get new shoes. Yeah, yeah. No, no. I actually put them through. Okay, okay. The super shoes. Mark runs in a lot of super shoes. This guy's meathead millionaire. Just like, he's running in some Vaporfly 3s or AlphaFly 2s and he's just putting miles on them.

Like, most people don't do that because they're like $280, $300, right? But like, I started doing the same. But then I started realizing that it was, I was kind of, not cheating, but like i started doing the same but then i i started um realizing that it was i was kind of not cheating but like it was when i got to the like races like i would have no extra help because i was so used to training in a super shoe so i wanted to make it a little harder so i changed like my rotation and shoes for people have no idea what we're talking about yeah there's shoes that are called super shoes i think nike was the first one to kind of break through with the shoes and it's a carbon fiber foot plate and the carbon fiber

foot plate uh will literally like spring you and kind of launch you forward in terms of shoes in my opinion not that they're not the best shoes because they don't like i don't i don't fit great they don't feel great i've tried a variety of of carbon fiber footplate shoes, and a lot of them just are kind of snug on the feet. They don't feel amazing, but to go out for a 45-minute run or an hour run in some of these shoes, they really do feel like they help kind of launch you forward and propel you forward. When I first got into running, I asked, um, I asked somebody that, uh, has run a ton of marathons. I asked him like, Hey, you know, what shoe should I get? And then the guy was like at your size, like you're pretty big. So you should get a super shoe and just running that all the time. And that's interesting information because people say that you should try to switch your shoes up and stuff like that but his point was any volume for you at this point is going to be a lot of volume and uh with a heavier body just kind of

landing over and over again i needed all the assistance i can get so it was a good place to start for me what's what's your favorite shoe um i still love those nikes the nike nike alpha five i haven't found anything that matches that. The Adidas ones? Those wide? Yeah, I have Adidas ones that are a little wider. I have some New Balance ones that are a little wider, and they're nice. But I haven't found – they're just – I don't know.

Probably Nike's got some sort of like voodoo thing over me since I always loved Bo Jackson and Michael Jordan and all that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. So they probably have some sort of like spell over me or whatever. Marketing. Yeah. It feels like it's better. It feels like it's superior in some way. But I don't know.

Yeah. When you first started running and like just like with your background in bodybuilding and stuff, was it like a hard transition over to like eating more or were you just like, fuck it, let's keep going? Eating more was a blessing, man. Yeah like it it made it so much easier so much easier how about like the actual like performance aspect of it getting used to running what are some of the things that you had to learn how to do to become start becoming a better runner getting up early waking up before it got hot because in Vegas by like during the summertime

by like 8 o'clock 9 o'clock it was like 90 degrees and then it would hit like 105 110 but then I started getting my David Goggins on I was like fuck it I'm gonna make it harder I want to run at the peak of the heat who's gonna carry the boats who's gonna carry the boats

when the UV rays were like 10 and that's when I got dark as hell like I didn't I want to run at the peak of the heat. Who's going to carry the boats? Who's going to carry the boats? When the UV rays were like 10, and that's when I got dark as hell. I usually tan. I fake bake in the beds during the wintertime. This is my me-head bodybuilder thing. I like to stay even, right? No tan lines. Oh, there you go. That's natty UV rays right there.

That's straight from the sun, but then I had the Daisy Duke tan line on the shorts, on the quads. Wow. Have you noticed any negative impacts on muscle or anything you need? Do you need to work a little bit harder to maintain a certain amount of muscle? What are you noticing? I think I definitely had to. I'm smaller. I get trolled on it.

Like you're not as big as like back when we took that picture at the campus, right? But then again, I was lifting a lot more. Now I'm training four days a week. You know, I have three kids at home now. It's like I can't live at the gym and I don't have my gym to like live at anymore. So I train at a commercial gym where I kind of, we go for two hours, we and out and there's no extra you know credit and I just go home so I definitely don't train as much as I used to when I had my uh my gym yeah I want to switch gears for a second we'll talk about your gym and all that stuff in a minute but you did mention we were uh out there lifting some weights

and we were filming some stuff and you did mention mention that you're a fan of cheat meals and cheat days. And I think Andrew's ears are perking up over there. And I think everybody listening is like, wait a second, what? These assholes on the Power Project always tell me that I'm fucking fat and that I can't eat. I can't have a cheat meal or can't have a break here and there. What are some of your thoughts on a cheat meal or a cheat day? I think if you're not in contest prep, I think it's good to be looser, right, while still being in the deficit during the week. Like I told you, six days a week, I'm still tracking macros.

I'm still in a deficit. I'm still seeing the scale go down. And then that Sunday fun day, I'm getting more calories in, majority from carbs and probably fat and proteins lower but I think you just need that mental break if you want to continue to keep digging and getting leaner you can't just dig dig dig dig and not have any any fun on a day like that is that for you is it anything goes or when you do it for a client is it anything goes you try to put some restrictions on it so it doesn't get too crazy? For my clients, they're more controlled. I'll tell them 300 more carbs, maybe 10, 15 more fat just to be able to play with the numbers.

But for myself, it's somewhat controlled and strategic where I'll fast. I'll continue to fast majority of the day and then I'll fit in all the shit that I was craving during the week that I really didn't want to fit in. I'm going to keep you just a little closer to the microphone. Sorry about that. Like donuts. I wouldn't fit in donuts during the week just because it would leave me hungry still because I don't want one donut.

I want like six. But I'll literally have that on that Sunday Funday if I could have it, if I was craving it. But, I mean, the controlled refeeds, there's a time and place for them. There's a time and place for the cheat days too. But the one thing is the leaner you get, the more fun you can have. What do you mean when you say that? The leaner you get, you can just have more food, more fun with the cheat days.

That's a little bit of a curse sometimes though too right because if you cheat and the next day you wake up and you're all veiny and shredded yeah you're like i got this and then you fuck up again that's where the discipline comes into play you have to get back on it you can't just keep doing because then that depth that surplus just keeps adding up right and then boom the scale's going up the one thing that people miss about is like, you know, because when I was working with bodybuilders and I was working with bikini athletes, binges would happen. Like a binge would happen. And I'd make sure that an athlete felt comfortable telling me when this happened because sometimes athletes do not tell you when they binge. And then you see the scales up three pounds on average.

You're like, what happened? Nothing. Like, nah, bitch. Something happened. Right? scales up three pounds on average like what happened to nothing like nah bitch right but the thing is is like if it's one binge on one day right naturally for the next few days without you realizing it you're going to be moving a little bit more your workouts are going to be a little bit more effective you're going to be you're going to be expending a bit more calorie so it's not

like that one binge is going to put you in the shitter. It's when that one binge turns into a three-day experience. Now we have a lot of work to fucking do. Now, like, it gets bad. But one day can actually be extremely effective on helping you have a productive week if you're smart about it. Yeah. Yeah, it's all numbers. That one day is not going to put you over, but it's going to have you feeling good, you know. You're going to be doing a little bit more weight, a little bit more reps.

Your performance is going to increase. Yeah, and then you're also somebody that likes to, or maybe doesn't like to, but you adhere to tracking. And you're going to allow yourself maybe a little bit more freedom, even during the week. But you're still going to be in a caloric deficit. So some people might miss that when they're trying to pay attention to what you're doing. They might say, oh, I saw him eating like crazy on Sunday. And then now I see him on Tuesday, he's kind of enjoying, you know, just

whatever it might be that you might track. And so they might get kind of confused by that. But as you were mentioning earlier, it's controlled. It's not necessarily like a cheat all the time sometimes it's literally like a refeed where you're just giving yourself more nutrients giving yourself more carbohydrates that's what you're doing sometimes yeah most of the time yeah so is it like um i mean is is one aspect of like a quote refeed day or a cheat day cheat meal well first off yeah is it a cheat meal or cheat day and then the other part is like how much of that is just like a mental break from the like i gotta be in a deficit and it's like oh like you hear people say oh i gotta go on a diet life

sucks but then it's like well no here here's this little cheat meal you get to enjoy for a second i think it helps a lot mentally it's something to look forward to at the end of the week if it's sunday you know i mean um but i think physically it helps a lot mentally. It's something to look forward to at the end of the week if it's Sunday. You know what I mean? But I think physically it helps a lot more than mental. And then is it literally all day or is it just like you can have like a meal? I know you said 300 extra like carbs and stuff, but do you tell people to have it throughout the day or just kind of let them figure it out? It's really up to them. As long as they hit their numbers.

But if they want to save it for later, you know, for that date, that hot date, and where they're getting sushi, then do it that way. So let's talk about this a little bit because, like, I mean, I've tracked a lot before. I don't track as much anymore because, like, I learned from tracking. So, like, now I can kind of just eat. I know when I'm full. I know how much protein I need to eat. It's fine. You've always been a monster,. Eating wise, like you, you're eating wise.

Yeah. You were, you were able to cut your, like your, your cutting macros were like my bulking macros. Yeah. But I was also heavier. Yeah. Like in my, I think when I was, when I had to prep at two 30, when I was on my lowest, I had to eat 40 grams of fat my carbs were at 250 my protein was at 250 but that was at 230 like i felt like shit you know what i mean but the the thing i wonder is with tracking your macros because a lot of people when they think about tracking macros like i saw kenny was like having trouble in there because he likes to have structured food and when he thinks about tracking macros he thinks it's just like people eating bullshit and trying to like hit a number. But there's an even aspect of whole foods and adding food that makes you feel kind of good, right?

Yeah. Yeah. The micronutrients is a big part of it, right? Like how healthy – if that's important to you, health as a whole. You can't just be eating Pop-Tarts, hitting your carbs, or eating fucking Snickers all day to hit your macros. It'll catch up to you. Yeah.

So how do you do it? What is your daily, what kind of foods do you eat? I know it's a general question. Eggs, protein-wise, chicken. Lately, we've been eating a lot of salmon. Straight up, Sonia's been going to the grocery store and just getting a filet of salmon. She's been eating a raw white rice soy sauce. What kind of store?

You can do that with just normal store salmon? Sam's Club. Even Costco salmon, you can do that raw? We've been doing that so same shit i think but is it sushi grade i don't care doesn't have to be sushi i'm still alive no i see i think that's the whole thing like organic right right like are you paying extra money for organic like what makes it sushi grade i don't know the fresh? I don't know. The freshness? I don't know. I'm just – It's fresh.

It's fresh. Okay. All right. It's fresh enough that I don't have a fucking stomach ache like an hour later. Maybe I got to try that. Try it. Oh, man. Sounds delicious.

Yeah, we've been doing a lot of salmon, man. I've been feeling real good. The extra fats, I'm assuming? Maybe. Okay. Okay. So what's your macro breakdown right now then? 450 carb, 100 fat, about 175, 185 protein.

450 carb. That's awesome, dude. They're running, huh? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good amount of fuel. When you're running, have you noticed that you have to fuel differently than when you were bodybuilding or is it feel similar?

It's pretty similar. I think I plan a little bit more strategic around my, my training. Like I have to have a good pre-workout meal a couple hours before. And then post if, if I don't then, cause I'll run in the morning and then go, go to the gym after if,

if I don't have enough, I'm just empty. Can't get a pump, just flat as fuck during training. So that's – and then hydration came into play. Like I was – coming to training, I'm like, why am I so flat? I'm running too much. But then I started doing research on hydration. That just opened my eyes. As bodybuilders, you don't think about hydration.

Running forced me to learn about hydration, you know, electrolytes. I never cared about salt, you know. I always, I've never been a bodybuilder to cut salt. I always believed as a natural, you need sodium. You do. Right? But it came even harder to me

when I started doing the running, how important, key it was. Yeah, it's interesting with bodybuilding, even though there is a performance, like you do have to train hard very consistently, you know, four or five days a week. It just doesn't seem to require a crazy amount of fuel. Like you can do it in a caloric deficit. But if you start doing other stuff in a caloric deficit where you start lifting and doing something else in a caloric deficit, you'll feel

like dog shit. And then you get to eat more. Right. Get to bring your calories back up. All right, Roger family, it's time to step up your barefoot shoe game. Now we talk about foot health all the time on the podcast, but the winter months are coming and Vivo's come out with some slick boots. These are their Gobi boots and they have different colors on their website. Now these have a wide toe box. They are flat and they are flexible and they're stylish and sexy as boots. But obviously Vivo is awesome because they not only have boots and casual shoes like their Novus right here, which again, wide, flat, flexible so that your foot can do what it needs to do within the shoe. And you're getting the benefit of having your feet improve while you're walking around in shoes,

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Vivo is your one-stop shop for pretty much all the types of kicks you need. Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at VivoBarefoot.com slash PowerProject. For the entire month of December, but December only, you guys will receive 20% off your very own Vivo Barefoot shoes. Again, VivoBarefoot.com slash PowerProject. Links in the description as well as the podcast show notes. How did the online coach thing kind of come to be? Because you've been that for a really long time, and you've been coaching people for a long-ass time now, and you've been in bodybuilding for a long time. What made you come up with such a simple name?

It was just as simple as, like, I asked myself. Instagram popped up, and I had to think of a profile name. I was like, what the fuck am I doing right now? And it was online coaching. There really wasn't like a name for what I was doing. It was just as simple as I'm coaching people online. I think it's great because like now you see like knees over toes and there's a lot of other like literal names that go along with what someone's selling or what someone does and uh you were to my knowledge one of the first that i saw that kind of did something like that

yeah when did instagram come 2010 yeah yeah so my brother made me start a profile and he was like start a profile i'm like i don't want to do another freaking social media thing because i think i has facebook what else was out there twitter twitter already out there yeah yeah We start a profile. I'm like, I don't want to do another freaking social media thing because I think I have Facebook. What else was out there? Twitter. Is Twitter already out there? Yeah. YouTube was out there too, but it was super early, right?

Or no? Yeah, YouTube was there. Yeah, okay. YouTube's 2006 or so, 2007. No, I was on Body Space. Do you guys remember Body Space? I don't. That's meathead stuff right there.

Bodybuilding.com had a platform. By the way, how old are you? I just turned 40. Dude, good for you. You fucking look 25. I feel about 30. You look incredible. Yeah. I feel about 30 with a little bit more money.

There we go. More kids. There we go. All right, BodySpace. Yeah. So BodySpace was like my space for meatheads, for bodybuilders. Bodybuilding.com platform so there's this like top six thing where you like

Try to build your profile and then you would like land top six and there was always this guy Was Amy was so shredded. Um There was a guy that he's Nick it was Nick Something he was he stayed super shred and he always had that top spot. But I was posting on there. I think I was prepping for my first show and I was just posting progress pics and what I was eating, just sharing. And my page started growing right there. And then Instagram came out and then I – oh, actually I got clients from the Body Space. People would ask me like, hey, how much do you charge for a meal plan?

I'm like, I don't charge anything. So I was doing it for free for a good while, just helping people out. And then people just – it started snowballing where they're like, what do you charge for a 12-week prep? I'm like, just made some price up. This, this, and then it just started growing from there. Nice. Yeah, and it's been a while since you hit up anything on YouTube. Yeah, I think two, three years.

Did that kind of coincide with you selling your gym and stuff like that? I was just burnt out, man. I think for a good year I was posting like daily vlogs. It was just nutty. Like I was always on YouTube posting. I just got burnt out. And i think at the time like the the cpm it was just so shitty like i was posting like four or five videos a week and just getting paid like shit i'm like and i just had to make a decision i just i think i didn't post for like a

a week and i just got so used to it got a little break not having my camera it's just like it gets old like having having a camera thinking about content like being my camera. It's just like it gets old. Like having a camera, thinking about content, like being with the family, it's just like you just add it up. Right. Yeah, there's nothing quite like being with your family, and it feels weird to sometimes have a phone with you or to try to shoot content. Like to me, it sort of feels like – I don't know. It doesn't feel good. It feels like I'm taking advantage of, you know what I mean? Like I don't want to share a moment with my kids via like an external.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just for some reason it doesn't feel good to me. And for other people, it might feel good and it might feel fine. But I don't like it for myself. Yeah. No, I agree. I felt the same way.

How about having like, how many kids do you have now? I have three. Three kids. Three at home. You're 40. How does it feel to be where you are right now? Because like for example, I got – I'm 31. I got a lot of friends who they got into their 30s and they're feeling kind of old, et cetera.

You're out here running. You have three kids. You don't have a wrinkle anywhere. Like how does your body feel as you're getting older? Do you notice anything? Has anything felt like it has slowed down? Or how do you feel? Not really.

Like I said, I feel like I'm like 30. This is the best I've ever felt. And a big part of it is the running. The running? OK. The running has really, really just changed everything. But strength-wise, I mean, everything's still the same, man. I think I'm getting smarter, wiser with training,

just focused more on being more efficient with my time. So when you're focused on being efficient with your time, it just changes your approach. Shorter workout sessions. Shorter and more intense, yeah. How much shorter? And what does it kind of look like now? Well, back when I had the campus, my gym, I would be in the gym for like three, four hours just fucking around.

Yeah. Right? It probably was equivalent to like a two-hour workout. Okay. Okay? But now, when we have the kids, when they're out of school, we have to block out a spot for the kids club. And it's two-hour max. So we literally have to go 10 to 12 and then knock it out.

So it has to be a lot more strategic and straight to the point. You train with your wife? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And my, my, my role growing up was never to cupcake. Cupcaking at the gym was like a no, hell no. Like I've never trained with a girl, a female.

I was missing this term. Y'all both knew what cupcake meant. When you say cupcake, what do you mean? Cupcaking is just, you know, just... Pussyfooting? With your woman at the gym. Oh, pussywhipped? Yeah.

I mean, that's a... They're cousins of each other. I don't know. You know what it's like. Cupcaking. Yeah, when you have your gym buddy, your gym bro friend, and then all of a sudden they get a girlfriend and they're working out with their girlfriend. And it's like, dude, I thought we were going to lift fucking heavy today. And they're like, yeah, I'm going to go over here and do some Smith machine squats with

my girl. Hey, don't disrespect the Smith. You doing hip thrusters? I was trying to think of like a chick movement, like with like their, you know, like a glute day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to do hip thrusters. You doing glute day?

I do glute day now. For the women in our audience, roast Andrew right now. Yeah, go ahead. Go to the comments section, roast this man. Hey, it's hard to like produce and then speak and think at the same time. That was a good scenario though. Right? Like with a friend.

The setup, right? Yeah. Like, are we training today? No, I'm training with my girlfriend today. That's a good example of cupcaking. Like on an extreme level. You're like, bro, what the fuck happened to you? But I go in there with my wife and I'm training her to be the best like spotter, partner.

Like I'm training her to be a good partner you know i'm cupcake cupcaking but it's benefiting it's bringing us closer she also trains hard right she does yeah you're also married yeah that's okay yeah but it's still not the same as like training with one of you guys like i i can't take my forced reps to like true true true failure because she cannot you know right she can't bring it up. What is a, what are some things you learned from powerlifting? Like what do you, and what has it helped in terms of bodybuilding? Cause I know you did a handful of meets.

Yeah. Just strength is, is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength. That's what you're saying, right? It's so true. I like, I said it out loud one day i was like fuck that shit is deep um you need to get stronger as a natural if you're not getting stronger your physique is not going to change over the years at one point in your life you were yeah you i think at 15 or so you said you were 95 pounds i was like 95 pounds when you started lifting and then what like uh was strength the key or was it bodybuilding and was it eating or kind of combination of so i was playing basketball so i was a little point guard at that weight right so i wanted to get faster i wanted to jump higher

i wanted to be more explosive and that's why i started lifting um the weight the muscle just it was all performance i was chasing performance i wanted to get stronger and the muscle just, it was all performance. I was chasing performance. I wanted to get stronger. And the muscle just came along with it. And I was able, I was lucky, lucky enough to be able to eat. You know, eating has never been a problem for me. I ate too much. But then basketball and being active just kind of kept my body composition in a good place. I never got fat. And then lifting, you know, just built the muscle.

That's a cheat code, though. Like, it's, you know, right now you're finding it easier to stay lean because you also have running. You know, if you're a lifter, and let's say you've put in a few years in the tank in terms of lifting, but you want to be leaner, find yourself a cardiovascular activity that you enjoy. You know, like, you both have running. Like, I have grappling. And it's not difficult to stay lean at all. Fucking Andrew's almost at single-digit body fat. He's at 12 or – probably 12 percent body fat.

And he's – like it's not – is it difficult for you to stay lean? No, no. Just like what you said earlier, like when you started running, you started eating more. I don't know if I've been eating more, but like I'm not stressed about food at all. You know, like we were talking about like Thanksgiving and the holidays and stuff. And like, yeah, if I want to have a little bit of something that I normally wouldn't, like if I was tracking or something, like I would just be like, nope, I'm tracking. I can't touch any of that now. It's like, yeah, dude, I trained pretty hard this week, but like, it wasn't difficult on me. You know what I mean? Like it was fun. And so now I'm like,

oh shit. Yeah. Let's, let's go and have a little bit of something here and there and it doesn't do anything other than yeah make you nice and veiny the next day which is always fun when you were uh more active with bodybuilding did you do cardio only when i was prepping and did you kind of hate it yeah stairmaster do you feel like there's a big difference between specific bodybuilding cardio training versus running? Or could you utilize running as a form of cardio for bodybuilding, you think? Asking me that today, I don't think there should be a difference. Back 10 years ago, I would answer you completely different. I think the intensity has to be strategic.

I think the intensity has to be strategic. I'm not going to be running – if I started contest prep now, I would strategically choose my mileage, intensity because I would have to prioritize that leg day to be able to maintain the muscle. I think – and then I would have to eat a lot more which would be a good problem you know there's also the skill like you you now have the skill of running but like for someone new mark moving both you both of you guys had to take some time to learn how to run and have it become an efficient type of thing because if it you know i'm assuming when you started running your recovery was harder than it is now right yeah the aches man like my just the wear and tear you just carrying bodybuilder like muscle you know being 20 30 pounds heavier than the average person like you have to focus on technique or you're going to run into those those that wear and tear pain. Knees, freaking feet.

So it had to be strategic. I had to learn how to run or I wasn't going to progress. And for bodybuilding, like they – a bodybuilder or somebody that isn't proficient or hasn't really learned how to run yet, Stairmaster is a great option. Treadmill on an incline is a great option. And the reason those things are such great options is is a really controllable variable you know you don't have to really worry so much about like rolling your ankle when you're doing stair master there's a lot of shit that can happen on a run even for an experienced runner even somebody

that's been running for a long time they could go out on a run one day and just all of a sudden shit hurts they all of a sudden they're they have tons and tons of shin pain. And maybe even the fractures are pretty common amongst people that run often. So I do think that running could be great for some bodybuilders to utilize, but you'd have to do it strategically. You'd have to kind of plan it out and you got to kind of think about it more. When you said you would plan it out strategically, what do you mean exactly? Would you just try to say like, I'm going to go do like a 20 minute run and it's going

to be, you know, my heart rate's going to be X for the whole run or something like that? Uh, it would probably be me chasing zone two, you know, being a zone two. Um, yeah. facing zone two, you know, being in zone two. Yeah, and then just the miles total for the week, calories burned, you know, seeing how many calories I burned throughout the week. Because I do track cardio calories burned. Like even for my clients, I prescribe calories burned over duration. Oh, that's interesting because a lot of people don't like calories burned, but you've utilized that with success?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just if you're working with a client, you're just able to track more numbers, right? Because 30 minutes on the StairMaster versus 30 minutes on the elliptical, it's going to vary based on intensity. So if you're telling them 300 calories, 400 calories, it's going to be easier for you to track and them to track. Does that help gamify a little bit, you think? Does that maybe help some of your clients get their cardio in? Oh, yeah.

I think it's fun for them. They turn on their Apple Watch. I think it would help me. Like if someone's like, yeah, okay, you burned 300 calories. Now you get 250 calories of food and you still are a net down, you know, 50 calories. Yeah. I think it's fun for them. They see it. They get to, you know, 50 calories. Yeah. I think it's fun for them. They see it.

They get to, you know, be all cute with their Apple Watch and start it and like, you know. They get to cupcake it. Honestly, for the people that are, you know, you're probably thinking, oh, but the calories burned are wrong. Even though they're wrong, it's consistent. Yeah. You know, it's like if you're tracking with your Apple Watch, that tracking, the way it tracks those calories is going to be the same.

So for you as the coach, it's going to be a consistent measure for them as a client even though let's say they actually burned 300. But their watch says 400. It's still consistent. Exactly. People get too crazy about it. Like, oh, it's not accurate. It's something. Something is better than nothing.

How do you help someone that's maybe not so entangled in bodybuilding? How do you help kind of more average person? I'm sure you've had a lot of clients that are maybe not actively pursuing getting on stage for bodybuilding. That's the majority of my clients anyway. How do you help some of these individuals who are like maybe kind of starting almost at square one and they just – their relationship with food and so forth is just not great? I start them on higher calories. So their deficit will be – I'm going to assume that they're trying to lose weight, right? Try to get lean, get better shape.

Somebody is – let's just say they're 40 pounds overweight and they're coming to you. You're going to suggest more calories. i'm always going to prescribe higher calories the higher the better you know if we have to pull calories later it's better you know for someone like that with that's going to have more cravings that they're i'm going to keep their fat a little higher um just to make them feel better and then ease that deficit in a lot more than somebody else. And then what kind of – in what way are you going to maybe like box them in a little bit because they got to be – at some point, they got to get rid of some of those other habits, right? I mean as long as the deficit is there. I mean if they see the scale moving, they're going to be motivated, right?

It's the small wins. If they see the scale move two weeks in a row, they're going to be motivated right it's the small wins if they see the scale move you know two weeks in a row they're gonna they're gonna stick to it and then they're gonna see that they're eating a good amount of food and they're not super restricted and they're gonna it's gonna be a lot easier for them mentally do you have to kind of talk them through it and say hey we're gonna start you off a little bit more calories and you you know week one week two you might actually gain a little bit of weight. Usually they don't. Usually it just starts dropping. Because they probably don't have any idea what their calories are anyway. Yeah, they don't.

Right? So you're going to give them a good amount of food is what you're saying. Yeah. And then from there, you're going to strategically pull whatever you need to pull. Mm-hmm. I think that everyone's going to perform better on higher carbs. I mean higher calories, period. If you can consistently see fat loss and keeping

your calories high it's going to be that much more successful than crash you know just getting super aggressive crash dieting do you suggest that they eat uh like natural foods or or do you because i know because you're tracking you're allowing – there's an allotment for other things that come in there. Are you saying, hey, like primarily stick to meat and fruit and vegetables and so forth or is it – Usually, I mean how I describe it, how I instruct it is going to be different for each client, right? If someone has been around the fitness game, I'm like you want to stick to your bro foods, right? Like what you think is healthy 75 to 80 percent of that of your your your nutrition should be that and then the remaining 20 25

percent could be fun foods that you enjoy that keep you sane so but yeah micronutrient dense foods like as a whole you need to be chasing overall health you don't want to be eating just bullshit all day to get lean you know if you want to stay healthy it also seems that people learn their lesson pretty quickly when like if you're tracking and you're like oh i could eat whatever and then you actually do that you'll learn your lesson like oh i'm hungry oh like midday i'm fucking hungry well you shouldn't eat fucking shit for all your calories maybe you you'll, right? It's like you can have something that has more volume. Exactly. You learn that at least most people get the hang of the idea of like, okay, I can't actually, even though technically I can eat shit for all my calories, I don't feel good doing that.

You know? It is an interesting thing. Like if you were to just tell somebody, go to In-N-Out and eat a Double Double three times a day, they would be like, oh, that's pretty cool. But I guarantee you, not always, but I guarantee you if someone did that for three days, four days, five days, their other calories would probably start to come down. It's because they're having something that they,

especially if they really like that, if they really enjoy that. Right. So I think, you know, having, you know, playing the longer game, I think really makes a lot of sense. And you're mentioning like a cheat meal or cheat day. I think that makes a lot of sense because, you know, for some people, it's just like, how can I make it to the next? How do I make it to the next? It's just easier, right? Like if I know, if I know that we're doing a certain drill or certain technique in say like jujitsu, or we're doing a certain exercise in the gym and it's really, really hard. Oh man, it really sucks to not know like how long is this going to last for? If I said, hey, just run as fast as you can. If I told someone just run as fast as you can. If I told someone, just run as fast as you can. Well, usually there would be another question there, right? Like, well, for how far? How long do you want me to do that for?

Because if I literally just take off and try to run as fast as I can, it's going to be like eight seconds later that I'm starting to feel like I'm going to die. So you have to kind of plan it out with a little bit more strategy. I think even in the military, when they do buds, they say, because I guess when they do buds, they have to feed you. They have to feed you three times a day minimum. And so the guys would tell each other, just make it to the next meal, just make it to the next meal. We don't know what's happening. We don't know how long it's going to go on for but it literally can only go on for so long because we have to be fed three three times a day that's rough uh if you do have a client that um i guess they are trying to go on a cut or they're trying to lose weight but a little bit more aggressively but they're just like

really hungry all the time do you have any foods or like killing hunger hacks that you've utilized over the years for clients that has actually shown to have a lot of benefit and help? A lot of times those clients are just what Nsema was saying was just eating bullshit, like no volume, low volume foods. And I just recommend actual veggies, fruits, and that usually does a trick. And actual veggies, fruits, and that usually does a trick. But that's usually it is their food source choices. There's no volume.

They're just hungry because they're not eating any volume or having enough water. It's probably helpful that your wife was so competitive as well. Do you guys kind of get way into cooking or or have you guys gotten way into cooking where there's like meal prep and you're cooking you know voluminous foods that uh you know aren't containing tons of calories um no we actually don't cook that much um everything is for convenience man like i'm king of the microwave so what do you mean yeah what do you mean we don't cook that much. This is good to hear because a lot of people that are healthy are usually promoting that. I always tell people, hey, I think the most powerful thing you can do is cook for yourself and learn how to kind of do some of that.

But what are you guys doing in your household over there? We haven't meal prepped in like a decade. Yeah. I love it. It's one meal at a time. A decade. Yeah. I love it.

It's one meal at a time. It's literally, we're that flexible that we don't really plan it out, man. It's just like whatever we have in the fridge, we'll do it. Rice. This sounds like real freedom you got going on over here. It is. It just made me realize how flexible we are. It's like we don't think about the food that much. It's just numbers.

And then at this point, for the very first time that we've ever been, we've been married, this is the first, she's in a surplus, dude. This is the first time she's been in a surplus?

Besides when she's pregnant. Whoa. Like purposely. Yeah. Like she's in a gaining phase and her calories are, it's pretty high. Hey, you can tell us the truth.

It's just three of us here do you like when she gains a little weight oh yeah yeah the sexiest a woman is when they're like a bikini girl the best they look the best they look can i get an amen everybody when they're pregnant because by default they have to eat a little bit more. I love that one of my wife was pregnant. It was great. Chase her around a little bit more. Yeah. It's just the pheromone. I don't know what it is.

Well, their hormones get kicked in pretty good when they're pregnant. And then we smell it. Yeah, they do. All three of you guys have experienced this. I've yet to experience this. This sounds awesome it's a small window it's only for like a couple of weeks but it works pretty good yeah they get they get pretty fired up glad to hear i'm pumped i'm pumped you can't get her pregnant any further

yeah that's the good news yeah but there's one already in the oven. That's right. Afterwards, though, you got to be careful. Super fertile. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Big time.

Also good to know. That's great that you guys haven't meal prepped in so long. What about with clients? Do you try to – it seems like you're trying not to give your clients too many rules. It seems like you're allowing them to try to breathe and kind of learn and that's what i was telling you earlier is like i my whole goal is just to simplify everything right and like i'm not my coaching is so simple that like i think i need to charge less because it's so easy for me it's easy and simple but but I produce results.

Like my clients that do have a before and after because they stuck to it and were consistent, their transformations are amazing. And you ask them how much they ate or how much cardio they did, it's just not the norm. It's not the standard where you're used to. Sounds like you're not overly like blown away by any one thing it's like i just i'm gonna need you to be consistent over a period of time so we're not the calories in the in the meal that you just ate while it

is important it's not anything we need to really worry about too much. And the calories that you had over the course of the last three days, kind of same thing the last week and so on. But over the course of the month, we need this to kind of work out in this way when you're trying to lose weight, the scale should be going down. But again, what you're, what you pointed out earlier is like, we probably want weight loss on the highest caloric amount possible. So you might have to take the calories up and you might have to take the calories down, take the calories up, take the calories down.

You might have to keep moving it around. No, usually when I work with a client, say for six months, I probably make like two adjustments. If you're with a good coach, they shouldn't be making crazy adjustments. You don't need weekly adjustments, dog. No, no. You don't. Like if your coach is adjusting like on the weekly, you're with the wrong coach. Because you can – there's no magical set macros or calorie amounts.

It's a good like ballpark place that you are going to place your client based on you know their stats their activity their you know frequency in the gym i can nail it pretty much nine out of ten times where they're going to be in a nice is that me oh i think so yeah is that my stomach still on um but yeah you shouldn't be having any crazy adjustments you know one the the cool thing that you say that is I agree with you because like I've worked with people too where it's like three months go by they're continuing to make progress don't need to make any macro adjustments but people start to get an easy and one reason why there are coaches that'll make weekly calorie adjustments is because I personally think they want the clients to feel that they need them. I think that's the reason,

because it's like, if your coach is like, okay, take the car, take the fats down by 10 grams, take the fats down by five and increase your protein by 15 this week. Okay. This week, half a scoop away to this shake. It's like, it seem like oh there's this magical shit that you can't do without me but you doing that with your clients and then seeing those results then they feel empowered to be like you know ray i i think i can do this on my own now right that's a good thing there's no fucking voodoo or magic that they feel like they need to do but if their constant adjustments are going on why yeah right i'm teaching them how to fish you know and then and that's why i said like sometimes i feel like i charge too much because it's so simple i simplify the shit out of it where they're like oh this is how it is you

know and i but but they get results yeah but that's just what I have in my own mind I'm like this is so simple I'm not giving much but I'm still giving a lot I'm teaching a lot of fish I didn't know that I didn't know you guys have had a little affair going on for so long

you said affair relationship I meant we go way back you guys go way back remember ape man Affair. I meant, yeah, yeah. Relationship. I meant, let's see, what's the other words? Now, we go way back. You guys go way back, huh? Yeah. Remember 8, man?

Dude, yeah. Look at that guy. You were the first person to invite me down to like a gym to train. You know what I mean? I saw the potential in you. I appreciate it, man. I still had a bit of a hairline. Nice.

Oh, yeah, look at all that hair. Was this 2015? 2014, late 2014 or 2015. I had 2015. You would make a great bodybuilder in Seamon. You know, I guess I would. I guess I would. You look amazing right there.

10 pounds makes a big difference. That's me at 240. You're just about 10 pounds lighter? Yeah, that's me at 240. That's amazing. That's incredible. You're 250 now? I'm 250, yeah. But you's me at 240 pounds lighter yeah that's me at 240. that's amazing that's incredible you're 250 now i'm 250 yeah but you see more at 240. that's that's why i look so much bigger but i'm just like leaner what about yeah i was gonna say where was your body fat percentage in this video oh definitely like uh because this was right after i went to world so i was on the

world stage at around 230 and then i like i was able to gain i gained like 10 pounds a few weeks so this was a few weeks after world so i'm probably still around some percent but the 240 i have right here a lot of it is like carbs and water like if i if i'm probably stage 230 yeah so here i'm probably around eight percent seven percent and currently right now i'm around uh 10 per 10 or 11 body fat so you've been maintaining that pretty easy huh yeah dude and jujitsu's made it super easy to like because like here i had to like i had to fucking count fucking calories and be super diligent to be this lean and now like 250 has been super easy to hold for the past years because like

for you with running and me with jujitsu, it's just like, I have, I can eat cause I'm expending calories. You look pretty nuts right there. And like seeing you in person and seeing you train and when you're training and stuff, like it always looks impressive,

but that would be neat to see in person. You've seen me with a pump, though. No, I have. I have. But I haven't seen you like that dialed in leanness-wise. Leanness-wise, yeah. But I did see you at full chub, which was pretty good, too. Saw me at 272, yeah.

Do you guys train together now? We train around the same time a lot, but we don't really do much together. Oh, tank. Yeah, we do kind of different stuff. I guess we do a lot of but we don't really do much together. Tank. Yeah, we do kind of different stuff. I guess we do a lot of stuff similar, though, too. Yeah. A little mixture. We like to kind of train all day.

How about for you? Do you have a planned time that you go to the gym? It sounds like you were mentioning that because you're bringing your kids with you that you have like designated time at the gym. Yeah. This is like the most structured I've had my like fitness. Do you like that? Does that help you, you think? I do it for the wife.

Happy wife, happy life. It should be happy king. Happy husband. Happy kingdom. Happy Gilmore. Yeah. Happy king. Happy husband.

Happy kingdom. Happy Gilmore. Yeah. But yeah, so we're like 10, like 10, 10 in the morning because we take the kids to school too. So that's right after that we come home, we eat, and then we head to the gym. So it's around 10, 10 to like 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock sometimes. Your kids get to see you guys lift a little bit? Do you have any stuff at home? Your kids probably weren't old enough to see the gym

that you owned. Our oldest, Riley, was. They see it on social media and stuff like that. When they go to the kids club, they see the gym. Is it three girls? Two girls and my

little guy. He's five. Nice. Damn. That's dope. What do you think is, like, other than, I guess we'll say consistency, some of, like, the newer people when they're trying to gain muscle, what are some of the mistakes that they're making that you've noticed?

They're not tracking their food. They think they can dirty bulk and you know get enough food um where they just get they just get unnecessary like fluffy like fat when they don't need to i'm a big fan of dirty bulking like you can get i think every every new lifter should dirty bulk a couple times and just feel it yeah feel how strong you get you know how fat you get and you jump out of the shower you don't even want to look at yourself that's a that's a good dirty bulk you could jump out of the shower you're like fuck where's my towel that's how i used to be i mean i it used to be like shit shit, I'm fat as fuck. But then you would go to the gym, hoodie, you know, you're just like covered up, big sweats, but then you would fuck shit up.

Yeah. Yeah, you go to pick up a 45-pound plate and it feels like a Frisbee. Like a little 10. You're like, what is this, a quarter? This feels awesome. Yeah. That's sick. But I think the older you get, the less time you have to be cutting like 40 pounds of fat.

older you get the less time you have to be cutting like 40 pounds of fat so then what would you say like if if a kid came up to you and was like oh i want to do the gallon of chocolate milk like sam solik it seems to be working for him i'm all for it really like i haven't really looked into him that much but i i just heard how how much the kid's blowing up but like how he's eating is how i ate when i was a kid fucking peanut butter jelly sandwiches like whole milk no fucking almond milk like everything was calories i didn't really think about it so much milk yeah not milk bro it was real milk whole milk you know no this is the hippie almond milk like i'm all for that when you're you're trying to save your calories.

But like food is just food, man. It was like Marie Callender's pies, Hot Pockets. Like I couldn't even – I never even had a protein shake because I couldn't afford it. My dad was like, what the fuck? I'm not going to buy you a tub of protein for $30. It was like muscle milk. So I got it from food. Like I never took any supplements because I didn't have any money.

My dad wouldn't buy it. He wouldn't spend the money on supplements because he didn't understand it. Dude, that old school muscle milk back in the day on the side of the can, it said like eat fat, burn fat. And it was like had MCT oil in it or whatever. But that fucking powder was so good. It was so incredible. The original muscle milk was just unbelievable. You open up the container, and all of it was settled to the bottom.

Because you had this giant container, and then it would all be stuffed down towards the bottom. But the bottle was really heavy because of all the fat that was in there. Sick. You open it up, and the smell of it, I don't know what the hell was in that product, but it was amazing. And it was kind of funny because it was supposedly supposed to be like a low carb kind of thing,

but it was like high fat, moderate carbs, and like moderate protein. It had like a pretty good amount of carbs in there too. It tastes so good though. Yeah. It was good. Oh, fat. You could try some of that mind bullet tea

if you want when you actually by the way how's the do you feel that shit i'm lit how do you i've been lit yay how quick did you feel it like real quick i told you i don't smoke yeah i don't smoke because i'm super ocd a big thinker like the last time i ate some gummies you know what i did fucking timed it. I thought you were going to say you got like paranoid or something. No, I do get kind of paranoid, but I timed it. I turn on the timer. I'm like, let me see the stages of when I feel it.

Like that's how much I think. And like I don't relax. I don't like – I don't really need to be high. Drinking, I drink beer. I love good craft beer. Okay. But it doesn't last that long and it doesn't like – there's no psychoactive properties to that THC point where I'm like, what? I got a serious question to ask you. When you were talking about eating the way you did as a kid, do you think that that is a – do you think like training, you can build like kind of a resilience to a certain amount of like calories? Because you mentioned for yourself that you're on like a 3,500 calorie, you eat like 3,500 calories right now. And that sounds like an

enormous amount for people that, you know, maybe aren't paying attention or don't understand bodybuilding. Well, sounds like a lot for a guy that weighs 170 or 160, 160. Sounds like a lot for a guy that weighs 160. But I know it sounds kind of weird, but do you think you can kind of, I guess you have, you have trained yourself to be able to handle this amount of calories. But do you think even for, you know, a younger person growing up and kind of consuming a little bit of whatever, that that's probably kind of healthy in a way? Because you train your body to get used to some of these foods? I think so. Yeah. I think it's the same thing as when you deprive yourself of food sources. And then you build up those.

You have deficiencies, but you get almost like people are like, I'm gluten intolerant because I haven't had fucking bread in like two years. I think it goes the same way, but the opposite way, where you can build up how bulletproof your stomach is because you eat so much shit. That's real. It becomes bulletproof. My stomach is bulletproof. I can eat. I'm not picky. I eat big portions to the point where I can say I'm full as fuck.

You get that Insta shit. Yep. You can eat whatever. Yeah. But yeah, I think it does does i think you kind of train your your stomach to be that way i guess i never thought about it that way but you mentioned gluten i'm also thinking like lactose i know a lot of people stopped drinking milk and now they can't go near it they see a thing of milk and they fart yeah i think that's what happens to

a lot of these competitors especially bikiniini competitors, where they're super limited, more than a bodybuilder. But you cut out food sources, and I think that's where it goes downhill. You're pretty much allergic. You build up those intolerances. Yeah. Damn. So I think a successful prep is always keeping a variety of food, fitting in random little treats like ice cream, a little apple pie on Thanksgiving, a beer. Now I don't drink as much beer because of the running though.

That makes me think – because of hydration. I feel – I'm not hungover, but I don't feel the same. I don't want to run not you know 100% there's some people that say a little bit of beer can help with hydration who's what really have a little bit I think I think one of the guys we've had on the show before said that right yeah was it a Alan or say his name Alan Aragon no not that more recent like Jesus Christ I'm forgetting his name. See, I'm gangster when it comes to food, like just doing that kind of stuff.

But, like, no, I can't lie. Mark Allen. I think that might have been the person that mentioned it. It dehydrates you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it will. Especially in large amounts, it will dehydrate you for sure.

If you really think about it, it's like you go to a brewery and you have a couple beers, right? How many pisses do you take within that hour? Oh, yeah. You're just unloading and then you're not drinking any water to replace it. You're going to feel like shit in like a couple hours. Let me ask you this, Ray. How do you feel generally like as far as stress is concerned? Because one thing I'm really digging about all the stuff you're saying is like you allow yourself some freedom.

You're reasonable. You'll drink some beer here and there. You ain't tripping about it, right? It doesn't seem like this stuff stresses you out much. And one thing I know is that when a lot of people, let's say that they try to – they're sticking to a specific diet. And then once they cave and have some cookies one day, it just – they feel like they failed and they're stressing for days and they feel like they could never die. And it's just – stress fucks them up. How do you generally feel?

It doesn't bother me because I, I really look at food as just numbers. It's not, there's no morals, right? Like people, we've given food sources morals. Like there's good boy, bad boy. It's not the case. It's just like, shit, I wasted calories on, on this. Like the fat content was so much higher. Yeah.

That's how I look at it. Yeah. So like – and when it comes to things like sleep, do you – when you drink, do you like keep it away from bed or whatever? Or do you just like, I'm having a beer. I'm going to go to sleep later. I ain't tripping about it. Because some people, they really stress about how that affects their sleep. Oh, yeah.

It definitely affects their sleep. But I don't let it stress me i just make sure i hydrate more before i go to bed to have a little bit of sodium i i do these electrolyte pills where i'll pop them before drinking during drinking and after okay what are those pills i get them on amazon just a good electrolyte. It has all the electrolytes, and it's like 40 bucks. Yeah. It's funny you say that because I still do have friends that drink. That hit me up trying to get electrolytes because they found that I gifted them electrolytes, and they were heavy drinkers, and they're like,

wow, I'm not super hungover because I'm actually hydrated. So that is one thing. If you're someone who likes to drink, get your electrolytes in. It makes a big fucking difference. Yeah, when I do decide to drink or I know I'm going to drink, I'm hydrating even more the night before. Tell them what time you drink some wine. I'll have morning wine every now and then.

Not every day. I don't like to have it towards bed. So I like to keep it away from bed, and so I can just still enjoy my wine. I'll just have it in the morning. And just a glass. I'm not getting, like, lit. I can still do everything I need to do during the day, come here, podcast. Did you have a glass this morning?

I didn't have a glass this morning. I'm just having tea. I've been substituting tea for coffee. I'm just having tea. I've been substituting tea for coffee. When it comes to somebody binging, what do you usually try to recommend or how do you manage that? Because I think it's a big issue for a lot of people. Their calories need to be brought up.

The deficit is too aggressive. Fitting in, you know, fun foods that they're craving. Or, like, if they're having cravings, you know, get MacGyver it. And if you're craving a pizza, go get macgyver macgyver it and you're craving a pizza go make a you know a leaner pizza or lean cuisine craving some fucking ice cream go get like a halo top fit it in the more you could fit in the more successful you're going to be because you're mentally like satisfying that those little urges right and you're going to be able to do the whole process for longer it's going to be a lot more sustainable. See?

He never said anything about fat-free cheese. I'm just saying. He said leaner, and fat-free cheese happens to be leaner, and you can make really good, well, good enough pizza. Do you fuck with fat-free cheese? I used to. No, I'm a deficit. You're a deficit. Okay.

And he's the online coach, so I'll go with that. I used to bring my cheese to, like, fucking in and out like that free cheese oh yeah really and you sprinkle it on your burger your fat free cheese they got slices though that's amazing yeah yeah i don't know what it actually is made out of because like on the uh the wrapper it says like like uh something like cheese. It doesn't say it's actual cheese. But I'm like, it has the flavor and it's got the right color. Tastes good enough. You remember Walden Farms?

Oh, yeah. Did you do that when you were prepping? No, I didn't use any Walden, but I should have. Actually, no, I think I did. It has honey mustard. It tastes like shit. Syrup and all kinds of stuff. You've got to be really digging them like I remember I

like this I like the syrup one the syrups good yeah that's the only one I use that on some some French toast that shit was good I like the the ranch those nasty I'm like why the fuck's it called Walden farms like what farm is this this mutant this mutant food that has zero calories makes no sense. Oh my God. There's no way.

Yeah, they ain't got no orchards over there at Walden Farms. Yeah, you're like, this is not natural at all. This is like, this is crazy.

Yeah, crazy chemicals. What are some of your favorite things to cheat with when you have your fun day, Sunday,

or however you say that? All you can eat sushi. That's your favorite. When I'm in a deficit, that's what I crave. It's crazy because when I'm in a surplus or I'm a little fatter than usual and my calories are up, I don't crave sushi as much. I crave burgers. Burgers or sushi? I love sushi myself.

Like real sushi? Yeah. Like California rolls or bento boxes? Yeah, I love real sushi. I california rolls or no no yeah bento boxes yeah i love i love real sushi i like a bento box though too because i have friends were like oh i do sushi and they order the bento box i'm not ordering like 80 nigiri 80 salmon nigiri pieces and they're like california rolls i'm like that's not sushi yeah they're like what is that they want the rolls with the imitation crab and the mayo and whatever the else is on there yeah you don't think that's sushi no okay you got a salmon or either go salmon or tuna raw fair yeah they don't have those weird rolls at

fancy sushi places they won't even sell them yeah you've been getting great sleep you've been handling your nutrition you've been working out sleep. You've been handling your nutrition. You've been working out in the gym. You may have been running and doing all the things that you believe are helping you get in better health, but you haven't gotten your blood work done. That's why we've partnered with Merrick Health because you could be doing all these things, but underneath the hood there might be some deficiency or something small that could be the thing that moves you in the right direction. And without understanding what that is and how to change it with your nutrition or your supplementation, then you might just be spinning your wheels. So get your blood work done with Merrick Health. Work with one of their patient care coordinators so that they can give you the ideas of what

you may need to optimize in terms of your supplementation or your nutrition or potentially hormone optimization. And they can help you move in the right direction by helping you from the inside out. Andrew, how can they do it? Yes, you guys got to head over to merikhealth.com slash powerproject. That's M-A-R-E-K health.com slash powerproject. And at checkout, enter promo code powerproject to save 10% off the PowerProject panel,

the PowerProject checkout panel, or any individual lab that you select on their entire website. Again, merikhealth.com slash power project links in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. Quick question about the, the you're running. Cause you mentioned that you did have some knee stuff. You did have some shin splints.

What did you do to get rid of that? Cause a lot of people who are new at running probably do deal with that. So what did you do? You guys changed the game for me. I think I was texting you when I was going through some of it. When you guys had a knees over toes over here and I was asking you some questions. But, yeah, my shin splints, I did tip raises. Mm-hmm.

The reverse, the sled pulls. Yeah. What else did I do? There was one other one. Half raises. Slant board. The slant board. there was one other one cat phrases slant board the slant board sometimes even just a little time off

makes a huge difference like even just a couple days I don't even think I needed a time off I just needed to strengthen weaknesses you know the hips oh the reverse oh yeah

the reverse squats okay okay my hips were just weak as fuck and I was telling Mark how bodybuilders, do you remember? Everybody was always like when you did abs, you're doing leg lifts or knee lifts. Like you would never fully extend your legs because you didn't want to engage your hip flexors. You didn't want to take tension away from your abs, and that's how I trained for years.

And I just built up a weakness with my hip flexors. Yeah. Sitting down all day, too. They're weak as shit. And that led to my lower back pain and just all kinds of nagging pain when running. And now you don't really deal with pain when running?

Nice. That's awesome. And that whole, when you guys first brought on Knees Over Toes, I was like, I was binging that content. Because I was in pain. That's usually when I when i start to like work on things did uh some of that information from ben patrick did that change the way that you train period across the board with some of your bodybuilding even i was already kind of on the same page with with like even squats like the whole knees over

toes like were designed to be that way i never i was always about full range of motion but then when when he when i started listening to his content i'm like it all made sense you know you if your knees can't go over your toes you got you had a problem yeah he he uh drew attention to some really cool stuff you know when i started talking to ben and he started mentioning like the knees over toes i heard a lot of that stuff because Charles Poliquin is a mentor of mine as well as Ben. And so I've definitely heard of the knees over toes stuff and was well aware of a lot of it. But he just drew so much attention to that and also drew attention to that we should be training some of this. We should be training this way.

But then if you also just think like knees over toes, you're like, okay, well, how do I apply knees over toes to like my elbow joint? How do I apply that to my shoulder joint? How do I apply that to my hip joint? You know, you start to just think about, oh, maybe I should just try to get more range of motion in my training in general, which I think is a great thing. And I think sometimes when you bodybuild or you, you know, do something for a really long time, you can tend to get yourself in pain and you can kind of start to lose mobility. But I thought what was really cool when we were training this morning with Kenny, you were encouraging Kenny to stick with his ability to have some good athleticism. Kenny can still jump really well. He's got pretty good mobility.

And I thought that was cool. You said that's going to separate your physique out from a lot of other people's, just maintaining that level of athleticism. Was there anything specific that you did other than full range of motion work with bodybuilding to keep some athleticism yourself? Or do you feel like you've lost? You said that you played basketball when you were young. Do you feel like you're as athletic as when you were younger? Or did you get kind of muscle bound or tight?

It's still there. Like my oldest daughter, she plays basketball. And I've been kind of training her, coaching her since she was four. And she's a beast, man. She's like, it's the talent is there. Um, so she picks up on it real, real quick, but messing with her, just moving around. It's like, she's like, daddy, you could play like who taught you this? You know, like it's like riding a bicycle, riding a bike. Like I've, I did it so much when I was younger. It's just still engraved in me. The only thing is my knee. For some reason, I can run 14, 15 miles, but basketball just flares it up real quick.

I get tight. Stop at the start. It's just cutting. That's where it changes the game for cardio. Basketball is probably one of the best cardio you can do. It gets you. Besides like rolling on the ground, like I could not roll around on the ground for longer than like 30 seconds. That's lateral everything.

You're moving your neck, everything. Like I would pinch nerve, boom, like real quick. I would have to really ease into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For yourself, do you mess around with some intermittent fasting oh yeah especially when i'm cutting when i'm in a deficit i like i fast every day and it's just is there any concern because being a bodybuilder is there any concern over losing muscle i never had any but i mean just thinking about it and all this research showing about the protein synthesis and how much protein really, really matters per duration or your frequency.

So I'm like, it never really affected me to the point where it was obvious. But I think I would, if I started a prep now, I wouldn't fast as long as I usually did. As long or at all? As long. So what, what would, what would you do? How long would you fast? I probably would go like 14 hours at the most. Like I was doing like 16, 20, 22. Okay. But like, yeah, especially if I kept running in.

Yeah, especially if I kept running in. Yeah, I agree with that, by the way. I mean, just even my own, you know, N of 1 studying on myself, I think that I do a little bit better even if it's just like a fake fast, I call it, you know, an abbreviated fast. It's like I'm not really eating anything. The calories are a lot lower. I don't eat a whole lot of calories in the morning, and I definitely don't eat a whole lot of calories in the morning and I definitely don't eat a whole lot of calories during the day. But later on in the evening is when I will get most of my nutrients in. But I'll still have in the morning, I'll still have like a protein

shake or two or three eggs or something like that. It's a small amount of food, but it's still something. It's still something of substance just to kind of keep keep the uh protein muscle synthesis uh triggered try to stay jacked the best i can do you coach uh other coaches that coach people i do yeah um like what's like advice for like coaches that might be listening that are i don't know just hoping hoping to pick your brain a little bit? You just got to be open-minded, man. You have to continue to be open to learn. I always talk about research data. There's new studies coming out every day.

You have to keep up with it. What I said two years ago might not be correct, so you have to call yourself out. You have to continue to evolve. Yeah, so now I get stuck in some of the trends and stuff. Because that's what happens with a lot of coaches. That's what they do. Yeah. Have you seen anything that somebody's just like, dude, you need to let go of that?

Freaking cutting sodium, cutting water. Whether you're geared or natural, you need fucking water and sodium. Yeah. water like what is your beard or natural like you need fucking water and soda yeah i think i think a big deal about what you do um you know listening you talk to kenny in the gym and just following what you've been doing for a long time it sounds like you just have this just longer play you know you got this longer so kenny was asking some questions in the gym and you kind of kept referring to like, well, it really just if we have enough time, you know, you should be in really good shape for a bodybuilding show four to six weeks out. So there's less there's less tricks. There's less intervention. We shouldn't have to be.

And I view the same way with prepping for your first powerlifting meet uh prepping for your first marathon like the prep for this like people are trying to catch up from so far back from years and years of maybe not ever really running and now they're trying to pursue like oh I want to I want to run a marathon and then they're like I'm going to have this 20-week prep. And so that 20 weeks sounds like a lot, but there's people that have been running their whole lives that those people are called marathon runners,

and you're trying to be a marathon finisher, which is a little bit different category. You need to just kind of take your time with it. But in your pursuit of like bodybuilding and coaching all these people, I think that really makes a lot of sense is let's play the long game you know if somebody's losing 40 pounds for the first time while it might be cool that they want to do a bodybuilding show it might not be in their best interest it might be like hey let's lose the weight let's see what you look like from there maybe we'll do a photo shoot or something like that and then maybe we'll think about a 16

week plan from that point where you're already look good or maybe you might even want to even take longer and bulk them back up the other way yeah my mentality has definitely changed over the years this is patience man maturity everybody hates it you're selling people patience. But then with that patience, sustainability comes along. So any coach could starve you, get you lean, but are you going to be able to maintain it? That's what you're paying for with me. And also, like comparatively, if you're prepping somebody, what's the time difference of prep? Because, you know, a lot of people are thinking like, oh, yeah, eight, 12-week preps. How long do you usually try to prep people for i know it depends on the athlete depends yeah it just depends on how much weight they have to lose yeah but i usually one to two

pounds for a male half a pound to a pound for a female so just do the basic math there if they send me a picture i'm like guy needs to lose 30 pounds then you know 30 weeks yeah at the least how do you help people uh reverse out of their show lately it's been very fast remember back probably the last show that you did like the big thing was reversing out slow reverse dieting like super slow like now it's you try to get there as quick as possible without getting too crazy so like initially after the show after the first you know after that saturday or on that monday you just nice little bump real quick to give you give you enough and then give it a little bit of time and then another bump another bump it's like a lot of people are scared to to increase too fast because

they don't want to have that fat. But like, I think most people can handle it really quick because your performance increases really fast with just a little, little bump. And a certain amount of fat isn't necessary. It's not like you're trying to maintain that leanness, but you just don't want to get too fat.

Yeah. I think if you can get out of the binge prone mode, you're golden. Right. You know that feeling, like, especially if your prone mode, you're golden. Right. You know that feeling, like, especially if your coach dug you to the ground. Yeah. Dug you to the ground with cardio, carbs, low-cals.

Like you, it's hard to get out of there. And you did it, you did it for a prolonged period of time. It's like your metabolism is on the floor. It cannot handle a 500 calorie bump. It depends. So it really depends on how you got there first, how you're going to get out. Yeah. How long did you have that gym down in Temecula? I opened, what, like five years?

A while. Was it hard to let it go and just shift gears and do something different? Not really, actually. To be honest, I wasn't a gym owner. You know, there's a lot of responsibility. Like I said, I pretty much ran it by myself. I had a little bit of help hired, you know, I hired employees, but just like I was paying them to do nothing to train and barely clean anything.

You can only do so much, you know, for payroll. So it was more, it was more of a chore for me. You know, I would get in there, train, use my office. It was more just brand equity, you people come over and just come visit. And see if it came down, we shot content. It never really profited to the point where I was like, I got to keep this place. I was just paying lease. I had enough members to pay the lease and a little bit, but that's it. I was just lease members, had enough members to pay the lease, you know, and, and a little bit, but that's it.

I was just brand equity. Sounds like it's important to you to have like other shit going on in your life. Cause sometimes with that, you know, uh, moving on from, uh, bodybuilding to running, um, you were a gym owner for some people, that's everything, but you have a family, you have kids. That sounds like you have a pretty good that sounds like you have a pretty good sounds like you have a really good balance and even with your own diet sounds like you have a really really good balance does it feel that way oh yeah i think so yeah i think you have to if

you're going to be good at your fitness and nutrition everything else has to kind of match or you're you're losing what's going going on with this Wolverine tattoo? My favorite superhero, man. It's the only... That's pretty amazing. Like, I was looking at it when we were training. I was like, that's really detailed. That's sick. Yeah, tattoo artist I found,

he actually goes to my gym and made friends with him. So you can maybe turn it towards the camera a little bit there. Right there's good. Why is Wolverine your favorite? We can interview Wolverine. Yeah, why do you like Wolverine so much? because to get the superhero you like tattooed that means you love Wolverine exactly

it was just growing up I was obsessed with him I had popsicle sticks in my hands always get pencils and do it in school and then it all makes sense now what was his superpower superpower recovery there you go that is golden for us now yeah recovery you're gonna get the surgery of the anantium or whatever yeah no i wish the technology has to be good since we were kids right like it's probably come a long way it's totally safe now yeah but he didn't even

want that shit right like the whole the whole story was he was forced by that that that dude yeah maddie or not maddie or not kenny ko do you follow him yeah he's in vegas i've run into him a couple times oh really yeah elevation did he ask you the question no i made him i was like dude you never asked me like he walked right past you that's fucked up like no no he just has never he probably it was kind of a a diss i'm like they look that natural right but kenny likes to ask people who he knows that they're like if you look at when he ever asked people like they're like oh no of course i'm not and he always does he he loves he doesn't really ask people who actually are.

Yeah. That's true. That's true. Because I'm like, I had my camera and I was filming and I just turned it on us. And I was like, hey, I'm going to. I just jumped in and gave him a surprise. Yeah. I was like, Natty or not.

I asked him if he was Natty or not. And then he got into it. And yeah. So it was. And he was kind of like, like shy shy about it like i thought he was going to be a little bit more um kenny you know yeah but he tries it's like a little bit yeah it's not natural uh what's his deal is he natural no he looks i mean i think he used to use shit for a long time right and then like i think i don't know, more like nowadays, is he natural?

I think he says he's just on tests. Oh, he's natural. That's basically natural. But he has a company. Tests is natural, just like vitamin D. It's a hormone in the body. So there we go. Yeah.

Yeah. What is natty, by the way? What do you think? My definition of natty is just not taking anything anabolic that helps you build muscle. I mean, if you want to talk like water, you know, there's a list that's like long as hell, right? Like I can say that I'm lifetime natural, that I've never taken a drug to help me build what I have. I think that's the main thing, right? You ever try like pro-hormones or any of that kind of stuff?

No. I couldn't afford it. They were fucking crazy expensive when they first came out. How expensive were they? I remember there was like they sold like a kit. They sold like two things together and it was like 100 and something bucks and and i i never bought it i was like man i don't know like that would be cool if it worked but i believe it or not there was a time where i was natural in my life yeah there was a time yeah i swear to god what do you mean what's your what's your definition natural same i would

say yeah i would say it goes alongside what you're saying. Like I think we could just like split hairs over here all day long and be like, well, this guy tried this and then this guy has this. I mean you can get into all kinds of stuff. Like in my brother's movie, they talked about how Tiger Woods had LASIK eye surgery. OK. Well, yeah, it's an enhancement. But it's different than taking like anabolics. It's different than something that's, I don't know.

I just view it as being like different. And I guess the main thing when I think about if someone is natural or not, they're usually talking about like somebody with their physique or their strength prowess. So I don't know. It's just like I guess in other sports though, it gets to be – the area gets to be really gray really fast because there are a lot of things that you could take that wouldn't be natural per se.

fast because there are a lot of things that you could take that wouldn't be natural per se. I mean, there's a drug called DADA that stops the Krebs cycle from stopping. So normally there's a Krebs cycle and when it stops, you may feel like you're out of energy. you may feel like you're out of energy. But if you take something like this, that Krebs cycle will continue, and so it could give you a crazy unfair advantage in all kinds of different sports. And it's not bad. I don't know about that. I don't think so.

I don't think anyone really knows about it yet in those terms. But they will now. Yeah. Is it like more on the peptide side? Yeah. it's more of like a peptide type of thing so you gotta inject it it's an injectable yes yeah hopefully it doesn't sting yeah well the thing is like okay when it comes to tests test shuts down your let me ask you let me ask you this if you're on a really really low dose of tests does that shut down your own production of tests since it's exogenous because i don't think it would i think if you're on a really mild amount i don't think it would uh i guess it would depend

on how low you went uh the higher you go the more impact it has negatively the more likely it is to shut you down but i think if you were to take i don't really know actually to be honest with you not i'm thinking we're trying to really run it through my head i do know that like testicular atrophy happens when you take more like so if somebody takes two to three hundred milligrams of testosterone they're probably going to notice that their testicles shrunk quite a bit. If somebody took like 50 milligrams a week or 100 milligrams a week, I don't think that would happen. But I don't think you would have performance benefits either really.

That's what I was going to say. I think if it's at that low of a level, you might not get any of the benefits that we kind of often know and talk about. That's a good question though. I want to research that farther. I thought anytime you took any testosterone, it shuts off your natural production, period. And that's what dictates how big your balls are.

Right? No, I have to agree with you guys in some way because I don't really truly know. I just kind of- I thought it was like an on and off switch. Me too. Like if you synthetically and you know put testosterone your your your receptors just turn off for producing

your natural test i guess i know from my own balls i can go based off of those yeah and uh when i used to take more stuff they would be uh atrophied more than they are now yeah they look at your balls huh there you go everybody real quick though because i do i i know for sure somebody i was talking to another uh a dad with his son and they said that they actually gave him a little bit of testosterone to kind of like turn on his um uh i guess not natural was like he like wasn't hitting puberty but he was already the kid wasn't hitting puberty yeah yeah and he got like a super low dose and like that kind of like turned everything on i again like and this isn't bro science it wasn't thing like they did like you know the back of a gym it was at a doctor's office you know it's a

procedure i guess we'll say or protocol and. And so, yeah, that's, yeah, that's interesting, right? Like they used it to click it on type of thing. And yeah, but then as you age, like when does it shut off? Sleep is something we talk about all the time on the podcast because it's your biggest driver in terms of your health and you sleep for a third of your life. So you want to make sure that your sleep is optimized and that you're taking every advantage to make that recovery period as strong and as effective as possible. That's why we've partnered with Eight Sleep Mattresses. It's the Tesla of beds. You can control the temperature of your side of the bed and your partner's side of the bed. And the cool thing is over here at the podcast, we're all sweaty sleepers. I used to wake up in a puddle of my own sweat and I can probably say the same for Andrew and Mark. So that's a thing of the past because now my bed is cool. I wake up every morning feeling refreshed and there's so many things that this mattress does and tracks that it is just ridiculous. So check them out. Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, you guys got to head over to 8sleep.com slash power project. And when you do, you're automatically receive $150 off of your order. Again, that's at 8sleep.com slash power project links in you do you automatically receive 150 off of your order

again that's at eight sleep.com slash power project links in the description as well as the podcast show notes what has been your uh like like why have you chose to go natural or stay natural or like what's i mean i just look at it like at this point like i made it this far right i built this physique i built this amount of muscle. Why do it now? It's like I don't have a desire to compete. I don't want to be, you know, Mr. Olympia or, you know, get that pro card in the IFBB. So it's like I'm content with the physique that I've built.

Like why now? Why would I jump on drugs now? I should have done it 10 years ago if i when i was at my peak of like competing right and then what about when you were younger were you enticed like did you hear people talk about it and stuff and were you like man i should i would be really i was fucking i was fucking oblivious like i was looking at those magazines looking at jay cutler and like i thought i thought i could train hard enough and look like him with muscle milk i didn't know i literally didn't know because i would have trainers at the gym like 15 16 or like or 18 when

i built a good amount of muscle like you should compete i'm like i'm not big enough like i didn't even know that there was weight classes i just was training to be like jay cutler and those guys i saw a video like i didn't know i saw a video of Jay Cutler. Well, you didn't know. I saw a video of Jay Cutler yesterday. He was up on a stage and he's in like slacks and he's in like a button-up shirt. And he just like – he unbuttons the shirt. And you know that he's huge underneath the shirt, but you can't really tell like what you're dealing with. Like you realize this is like a superhuman in some fashion.

You recognize this is a very large individual but to be perfectly honest you can't tell if that individual is like you know really heavy with body fat or with muscle and because the shirt's super baggy the pants are super baggy too and he just like unbuttons his shirt and takes takes it off and it's like you're just like what what is this that I'm looking at? The guy looks superhuman. Unbelievable how much muscle he had. And you all got to remember, like, people are, when you say you're oblivious, there's someone who's like, bullshit. But this was a time before the internet when you were a teenager. Like, there weren't fitness influencers making Natty or Not videos. Like, you could actually be oblivious at that point in time, right?

I was. But that was a good thing for you. Let me ask you this. Ignorance is bliss. How would you – do you think it would have been different if you were young now? Do you think like seeing – because you've seen what's popular, what a lot of TikTokers are doing. A lot of young guys are hopping on test early. Because I even thought about this for myself.

I don't know if I would have just been able to give myself enough time. I wonder if I would have been enticed. Because now it just does seem extremely enticing for young guys. But some guys won't put in the time. Yeah. Right? It would be completely different. Yeah.

I think my personality kept me prone to just jumping into it but i think yeah social media the times it just looks different and he's like that that shortcut it'd just be way more enticing it's just more accessible yeah more accessible everybody's on it used to be like like literally i was i didn't know that it was drugs making these guys that big. I thought it was just they're lifting heavy weight and all I had was magazines to look at, not YouTube or Instagram to watch these videos. So it's like ignorance was literally bliss. I didn't know. But it kept me – it didn't give me that like limitation, that roof. Like I was just working and working and working, trying to get stronger, seeing how much weight these guys were benching or curling.

I'm like I can't do that yet. But when I get there, maybe I'll look like him. You believed you could. Yeah. So even with – even for somebody that's – for somebody that's growing up today and you learn, you're like, oh, OK. Fuck it. All the IFBB pros are on okay uh all the uh guys that compete in strongman are on pretty much right like maybe there's some somebody

out there who's not but it's just assumed that these people are on but once you start to learn about people that aren't on steroids or at least they're in tested federations and they say that they're not and all we can do sometimes is take somebody's word there are a lot of athletes that are absolutely fucking incredible that don't and so the the the ugliness of the whole thing is like that we just kind of suppose that everyone's on it, even when they say that they're not. And you're like, well, that guy looks better than the guy that says that he's on. How is this possible? But back to what you were saying about limitations, I think either way, we have to be careful about putting limitations on stuff because there are guys still squatting over 1,000 pounds that, again, they compete in drug-tested federations.

They say they're not on anything. We've had them on the show. We've talked to them. All I can do is believe them. I'm not trying to be gullible about it, but I don't think that all those people in those federations and all the people that say they're natural, I don't believe all of them are lying. and all the people that say they're natural. I don't believe all of them are lying. So even if there's a few that are lying, there's obviously a lot that aren't, and they're still doing extraordinary things.

So I don't think it should ever be something that we use as a limiting factor because we don't know. Like, well, who knows how big you could get? Like, have you ever really tried to just get as big as possible to throw everything else aside and say i'm gonna be i'm gonna be 212 pounds and see what happens you know what i mean i don't know like you know to really push i've been in that i've been on that stage yeah i've been 200 pounds 199 at my height. Yeah, that was fast, fuck. But I was strong. Like 275 on the incline barbell all the way down for like six.

Nice. I couldn't do that without that fluff, though. That's why I'm saying like— But you're big now, though. Because I did that. You weigh 160 and you're fucking huge. It's just—it's an illusion illusion it's the muscle that i have on these little bones right but it's like i had my fair share of dirty bulking and being fat and moving weight being covered up you know jumping out of the shower and covering up real quick

because i wanted to see my fat ass i did that i did that And I think that's why I said earlier, I think every kid should have a couple of those and see what you can do. Just like you said, just try to get as strong as possible with that fluff on you. Because you take anybody, you put 20 pounds on me right now, I'm automatically going to push a little bit more weight. Oh, yeah. Just the leverages, just the cushion, just the body weight, right? I didn't build a strength. I just, you know, it's just body weight. But I think that's a big advantage when you're, when you're a natural athlete, you need it. Now being 40, do you like, cause you know, a lot of guys when they get to a certain age, they're, you know, they're thinking about using TRT because of the natural decline that can happen.

How do you feel? Do you feel that it's something that you might pull the trigger on or you're just going to wait and see? I'm proud of it. I'm proud to say that I don't need it yet. At 40, I just turned 40, and this is the best I've ever felt. The best body composition I've ever held. The best I've felt libido-wise, a good indicator is what?

That morning wood. Yeah. Right? When I was staying lean, low calories, low fat, a morning wood was like, I don't know. It was scarce. But now it's like, dude, it's like every morning. I'm glad you're bringing this up because we brought your wife out here. If she can.

But yeah, like I would tell her, I'm like, fuck, I had a good this morning. Like when I first started feeling this like optimal, like healthy feeling, I'm like, shit's weird. Like she knows like it's not normal. Well, that was the norm for me. But now at this point, it's like, this is, like I said, the best I've ever felt. And I'm older. I'm 40. You know?

And I feel hormonally sound the best I've felt. So I'm like- You think that change in hormones was an adjustment of your calories? Definitely. More calories. Just maintaining on more calories. Higher fat. Just my cardiovascular health just being at its highest from the running.

Yeah, better blood flow. Shit. Yeah, there you go. Better blood flow. That leads to better recovery, better pumps. If you have better pumps in your bicep, what's going to happen down there? Little Raymond. He's going to get a better pump.

Yeah. Everybody loves Raymond. Yeah. See? That was a great show. Yeah. down there little raymond you know he's gonna get a better pump yeah everybody loves raymond but it's like raymond big raymond doesn't matter at this point like i've made it this far i don't need the test why am i gonna even think about it i'm gonna i'm gonna wait till the doctor's like all right your numbers are low and they're not they're they're on the decline and you're you're doing everything right and then i'll jump on it because i want to continue to do what i do and test your testosterone levels as a male is everything gotcha you get your levels checked i have not in a year or two since we moved to Vegas. I was doing it every year.

But I'm eager to go get it checked. Like before that, I was like 400, 500. But I feel really good now. So it's like I might just go get some lab work and see where I'm at. Yeah, 400 or 500, that's great. And that was when I first started running too. Yeah. So I feel better now so i'm eager to do it the interesting thing too is like when when it was at 400 500 were you feeling okay

were you feeling good i felt okay it felt okay i didn't feel like now okay like i said those woods weren't there yeah they weren't there like that you You know, I think the, a really cool thing here is that what the things that you're mentioning are counterintuitive to a lot of people. And it would have been counterintuitive to me years ago. If you're like, I'm running, I'm feeling better in the gym. I have better recovery along with lifting. I would be like, wait, what, what, why the fuck are you running? Stop doing that shit. But it's really cool that like, this is allowing you to be an overall better athlete right you're you're able to i mean yeah you've gotten better at running but now you can

recover a little bit better than gym because your heart rate's lower your your fitness is better overall you're a healthier person because of that and it's not like somebody has to run but just improving your cardiovascular health can have these other downstream effects on your muscle gain, on your recovery, on your sleep, and your ability to eat more food, which we all want to do. Mm-hmm. And there's a difference between eating more food and needing more food. Yeah, yeah. Your body's going to tell you to eat more.

Absolutely. So like right now, I'm in this nice little mini lean bulk. I'm not as hungry, and I'm just listening to my body because I am purposely in a surplus. So – but a lot of people, yeah, they don't know the difference between wanting more food and needing more food. With some of the people that you coach, they ask you about performance-enhancing drugs sometimes? Not really. Very scarcely. The people that, my clients that

sign up with me, they've been following me for years. So they know what I'm about and what I stand for. So it's like I never really get a random you know, that asks me for that. No one's like okay, but I mean really Ray, come on. How much do I gotta pay to get that

information? Yeah, for someone to ask that they're just they really don't know who i am yeah nice uh if someone did ask you if someone was like hey you know i've been doing this for a while and i'm i feel like i'm in pretty good shape and i want to you know take things to another level would you work with them or how would you probably not just because i would be i wouldn't be uh because I wouldn't be confident in coaching them. Yeah, you might say, hey, if you need more information on this stuff, I'm not the right coach for you probably. I'll refer them out to somebody.

Where can people find you? At the online coach, everything. Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to getting in a run. It was an honor. Thank you. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to getting in the run. It was an honor. It was an honor. Thank you. Strength is never weakness.

Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.