Mark Bell's Power Project - Hunter McIntyre Is Coming For Another World Title

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Hunter McIntyre joins Mark Bell’s Power Project for a wild conversation about HYROX, world championship prep, PEDs, overtraining, recovery, human performance, and what it really takes to keep competing at the highest level.Hunter opens up about losing a world title by four seconds, why he’s going all-in on strength this year, how he uses HRV and recovery metrics, and why the “grind harder” mentality can destroy athletes. He also talks about PEDs, the Enhanced Games, old-school strongman, marathon performance, micronutrients, sleep, addiction, and the deeper reason he keeps chasing world titles after already winning 10 of them.This one goes way beyond training. It’s about obsession, identity, recovery, and the cost of being elite.Follow Hunter McIntyre:Instagram: @huntthesheriffYouTube:  @HunterMcIntyre  0:00 Intro and the Samurai Mindset3:12 The Truth About Synthetic Enhancements7:45 Recovering from a Metabolic Crash12:10 Why Watts are the Ultimate Metric17:05 The Myth of the Skinny Runner21:30 Spotting Charlatans and the Liver King26:15 Peptides and the Future of the Enhanced Games31:00 Genetic Freaks and Samoan Physiology36:40 Women vs. Men in Ultra Endurance41:20 The Secret Science of Super Shoes46:30 Why Modern Strongman is Different51:15 The Lost Era of Raw Training56:30 Micronutrients and the Importance of Potassium1:01:10 Quality Control in Supplements1:05:45 Sleep Apnea and Overtraining1:10:20 Using HRV to Time Your Nuclear Days1:15:30 Minimum Effective Dose for Gains1:20:15 Training with Muscle Oxygen Sensors1:25:00 The Need to be Seen as a Champion1:30:40 Transitioning from Athlete to Businessman1:35:50 High Stakes Games and Eating Bugs1:40:15 Broken Skull Ranch and Stone Cold1:43:27 Final Advice for the Next Generation

I guess I'm just holding on to the tether of a rocket ship and just seeing where it goes. Will you compete again? I compete at Worlds in five, six weeks. And it's a very, like, honorable thing. I think, like, it's a samurai's death. Just, like, going there with, like, absolutely everything you have against the field. And whatever happens, happens. I feel stronger than I've ever been, the fastest I've ever been.

We're definitely going into the toughest field we've ever seen. But I've won three world titles now, and I lost the world title last year by four seconds. Anybody's watching this, know that I'm coming for you that way. I'm going to fucking bulldoze. I think a big thing that I was not. really willing to admit to myself as like, I was like, I am a freak. I was like Hunter McIntyre is a freak. But these guys were all synthetically enhanced.

The enhancement now is out of control. I have peptides and everything going on, right? When I overtrained a handful of years ago in 2024 leading up to the World Championship, I was not normal again for almost a year. I don't think a lot of people focus on the term minimum effective dose. I do so few movements, but I do them so f***ing well, that I'm a Titan. I think most excellent athletes are either talking to God, are talking to themselves.

So you're talking about your body weight and trying to ideal body weight for high rocks. And what do you think you figured out what worked for you? What do you think would work for most other people? Let's maybe start with the guys and then maybe the girls. Do you think getting to too low a body fat and worrying about, you know, being kind of like skinny is maybe a mistake? Maybe some people should be, maybe just their concentration should just strictly be on how am I performing in high rocks?

100%. I think if you look, so this is where I started to go wrong, and I'll tell people this story so that they can avoid this pitfall. I was researching and like totally romanticizing Tour de France, the Tour de France era of Lance Armstrong. Or these guys were trying to get down to like 4% body fat and looking at strength weight ratio, having this strength of weight ratio of 7.2 watts per kilo to win the Tour de France.

Like that was the number to just to be able to win the Tour de France. That's so specific though, because they're on those bikes forever, right? And they would rather be underweight and almost a little messed up going into it rather than being like two pounds heavy. And I think a big thing that I was not really willing to admit to myself is like, I was like, I am a freak. I was like Hunter McIntyre is a freak. But these guys were all synthetically enhanced. Oh, yeah. And I was not doing that.

So as my hormones and everything were dumping, they were able to continue to keep that ball up in the air. I wasn't doing that. So I crashed. And if you really look at the sports now, especially let's just. go to the other side of referencing cycling, they're now all metabolically driven in the way of how much carbohydrates can we get in these guys so they can kick even harder. Rather than trying to take the amount of work down, they're trying to put the output up through carbohydrate enhancement. And if you look at like Olympic rowers, like if you look at them, their body mass is

actually pretty high. They're not lean guys. They just need to be able to pull lots as much as possible. So being in the game for 15 years, I have now learned that watts are the most important thing in these kind of sports. What is a watt? What is a watt? I mean, watt is a metric of measure of power output. If I put you on a bicycle right now and I tell you to kick for 20 minutes, which is like a functional threshold test, how many watts can you hold for 20 minutes average? Let's just say you're 300 watts. Like that's a pretty good number. I've done that before. It's hard, yeah. Yeah. If you go to 400 watts, you're now like all of a sudden like a site. cycling contender, if you go to 500 watts, like you're now somebody who could win the tour to France.

For us, like, I know that we're not riding bicycles, but it's basically a measurement of your body's energy output potential. And the easiest way to test it is on a bicycle. And it's the same way we were talking about earlier, like V-O-2 max. I think something like a watt test is actually more important than a V-O-2 max. Because a V-O-2 max is against your body weights and your potential as far as your physiology goes. The bike doesn't lie. You know, this is about how much power can you put out in 20 minutes. And this is really like, you could have, you could be 200 pounds. I can be 150 pounds.

If I put out 501 watts and you put out 500, I'm out kicking you. It doesn't matter. It's harder to produce more watts on a bike when you're lighter, right? For sure, for sure. You have less strength. But, dude, sometimes these guys get so fit and so talented. They can just, their legs are just pistons. I always find the body weight thing to be super interesting.

You know, I was fortunate to do the Boston Marathon. I obviously didn't qualify for the Boston Marathon. I got in through sponsorship and some things like raising some money and stuff like that. But what I find interesting is when I ran in that race, I was thinking like some of these guys that are like winning this race, they weigh 100 pounds less than me. Now I'm not saying that I would, you know, be able to beat them if we were to go head to head and they were wearing a hundred pound vest.

But it would certainly be a lot closer. Yeah. And we all like to play around in our heads with that number. It's like I think about like that's what I guess. got into the game of. I was like, if I can just drop 20 pounds, I think about what I could do. But then you also don't recognize what you're losing in the sake of that. You're not the same person. You're not the same person. It's like, dude, if I somehow was able to even, in a freakish way, stripped 50 pounds off of you, all of the strength you had would be gone. And it's like,

you might be able to run the Boston Marathon a bit faster. But if I asked you to do 10 pushups at the finish line, you might die. Yeah, like in high rocks, some of the weights that you guys use are pretty heavy. Right. So if you strip 50 pounds off me, you're like, all right, got you all ready for high rocks mark then I would just be a whim yeah I mean there's definitely like a magic number and like I think we're all learning it and I think like I can't tell if the internet is getting better at being able to progress this or if it's getting worse but like everybody's out there just explaining like hey this is my formula this is how I got it done this is how far I'm going to go and hopefully the right information that's part of why I have a podcast now is I try to find the charlatans in the

space and then just dump them like right on speaking of charlatans how did I get lumped in with the Liver King. I saw your video. And I flipped my table over. I was enraged. I couldn't believe it. I was like, why is Hunter coming after me? My team. My team does clip-ups, by the way. Oh, he's going to blame it on his team. No, my team does clip-ups because the other day I had a video and I was talking

about a female runner and there was just a male runner in the video. So like these guys live in Macedonia and they're just grabbing clips of anything. Those bastards. But you have been in some of my clips, but it's a fun reference. I think we know each other's friends at this point. Cheers to that at least. Cheers. But

No, I don't find you to be a charlatan. Like I think anybody who has gone through, kind of like what we were saying before, like has gone through that crucible of training in extreme, extreme lengths to get the answer that we're all looking for. You've gone into the depths, you've gained the information, and now you've come back on the other side. And some of us are kind of having fun with it and relaying the information, but you've been there. You do know the truth. You were talking about PEDs more specifically, and you're like, I don't really know why you guys are listening to people that are on PEDs. And I think that does bring up an interesting point.

Yeah. It's not maybe that you shouldn't listen to people that use PEDs at all, but you do have to consider that. As you mentioned, you lost weight and you found out the hard way that you tanked. Yeah. And you were like, well, I don't understand what the difference is. And then you're like, oh, okay, a lot of these guys are enhanced. And that does make a big difference.

Yeah. I always liked and appreciated that, like, you know, Charles Pollockland? Yeah, absolutely. Like, he was always very forthright, and so is Louis Simmons in his books. and they would say these things, it's like you can get to this potential, but like there's also then the enhanced. It's just this other layer that you guys are not seeing,

and it's like you're all reading this book and you want to get it to a 500-pound bench. You just never will get there. The enhancement now is out of control. The peptides and everything going on, right? I really, I try to study it, and I try to understand it, and I don't even know what the limits are going to be.

Like, I remember reading in college back in the day, like we were getting into gene doping and things like that, and now peptides are at a whole other, level and I don't like you know the enhanced games coming up yeah like there's just so much progress happening and I don't know if it's going to be good or bad I think what I will say is pretty interesting is all these guys are trying to break the records in the hands games are not really that much better than the best and then there's this argument where everyone's like oh that means the best are just cheating and I was like I don't think so not not all of them no no the records that are

in the Olympics and stuff yes there's people that probably passed you know taking some drug that's probably banned or something or they took something that maybe didn't get banned yet. But I wouldn't say that that's fair to say all of them. And the same thing with the NFL. You know, everyone's like, oh, everyone's on steroids in the NFL. It's like, okay, maybe Tom Brady is and maybe Patrick Mahomes isn't or something. But like there's, they're not everybody's on them. Did you see this guy that they found out of Africa, I think like Nigeria and he's never played

a day of football in his life, but he's just like physically the greatest thing that's ever existed? He's huge, yeah, like 6-5, he's like 3-10, runs a 4, 6, 40, or Do you think he'll be able to pull it off? He'll probably be able to play pretty well. I'm sure he has some sort of, because they have some sort of program, I think, in Nigeria, where they're teaching these guys some forms of football. So I don't think he maybe has played organized college football,

but there's a lot of technique that goes on in the interior line that might be, you know, you were a wrestler, right, growing up? I mean, someone that's a wrestler can just destroy someone that doesn't wrestle, right? Totally. And so he might end up with the same thing with this guy maybe. But he got drafted, though. Yeah. That's saying something.

And it's not like somebody just was like, yeah, you can try out for the Eagles or whatever. They actually drafted him. That's insane. Have you ever seen these stats on like if you're from Samoa, the likelihood that you'll become pro football player? It's like in the single digit. It's like it's like 7% likelihood. If you're a male man like in Samoa that you could be in the NFL. Like they have this physiology in them where I think I looked into it.

Like their body is designed to like hold on to fat and also have musculature that just doesn't like fade. away the same way that normal persons would because they would do these long distant sailing routes and they needed to hold onto their nutrient level and their body so they just didn't metabolically eat away at that someone else would and they're just power output and the way that their body uses energy systems is unlike anybody else amazing like I think that stuff so fascinating it's like everyone tries to say like you know why are the Kenyan so good it's like there's something just about them yeah so like I so the way I look at

it is from a performance enhancement standpoint why can't I take some of that you know what I mean like if I'm not on with Barry Bonds because I don't have a pedigree of people that played professional baseball in my family. Yeah. Why can't I tip? And Barry Bonds is a bad example because he also took stuff too. But you get my point. It's like, why can I, if I can just take something just so I can kind of play with these guys, that would be great.

Yeah. But I like also like just like the mindset of the jungle. It's like the strongest will survive. Like the lion is a lion and you're a zebra. Like you're beautiful for your own unique state, which you can run faster than a lion. But if you get within just enough distance of it, it's going to wreck you in this way. And like a cheetah, like, you know, might be the fastest of all cats, but within close distance, it's dead against the line as well.

But it's like, we're all going to have our strengths. And this is why I think sports so awesome and I've become so addicted to it. Like, first I wanted to see who I am as an athlete. Now I want to see everything I can find out about human potential and studying it and improving it. Like, that's my new fascination. It has been for a while, but, like, will be the second part of my career. And I just think it's so crazy. Like, that's why I keep on doing the show.

It's like, guys, let's look everything up. Let's find out. Like the Kokadona 250 is happening right now, and there's this woman named Courtney DeWalter, who's one of the best ultra runners in the world. She's so good, and she has something inside of her, and some women do actually have this above men. She might beat all the men in this 250-mile race.

And you may think to yourself, like, there's no way a woman's going to beat a man, but something about them in these longer distance races allows that. What do you mean she has something inside her? Like testicles? No, no, no. I haven't checked. There's been a couple women.

I'm sure. Don't get me in trouble now. No, I think there's something going on where it's just like their body's able to endure. I see. Just like there's something about that low kind of diesel engine gear inside of them that lets them just keep on chugging a little bit longer. Where a man may have a higher output for longer, but then all of a sudden once you drop into that lower gear, they'll just outlast. What's the difference between men and women in terms of marathon? It's only a couple minutes at this point, right?

So the guy, seven, eight minutes, something like that. No, no, no, no. Well, the woman who got, she did, I think, like a 209, but she got caught doping. And she broke Paula Radcliffe's score. And this is a white British woman, which was like, everyone's like, what? It's like the Great White Hope. This woman like did this. She ran, I think, a 215 or a 216, which stood for 15 plus years, 20 plus years. That got broke by a woman who did a 209 and she got caught doping. And then all of a sudden just recently in London, two men broke the two-hour marathon. And one woman broke the whole world record at a 2.15 flat, I think. So men are just over 15 minutes faster than women,

but I mean, a 215 for a woman is insane. Like she still would have been top 50, I think, in the men's field. What's the fastest time that you ever heard of for somebody that's pretty heavy? Well, I was trying to set the world record for a 200 pound marathon a handful of years ago and I ended up twirking this hamstring. The best I've ever seen at 200, plus pounds is 237 in a Chicago marathon in 2017. And I think the reason why it's such an interesting story is because the guy who just set the world record for the two hour marathon weighs, I think 51 kilos, which means he's like just over 100 something pounds. I mean 10, 110, 112 pounds. The amount of cost for him to move over that distance versus you or I is

almost, it's like really like half. And our body can only sustain holding so much energy in it. the time we hit that halfway mark like our tank is like 75 to 80% empty his is like still got like it's only putting like a 20% dent in it oh and they're just it's like the magic carpet for them uh i think it's mitchell hooper uh world's strongest man competitor yeah to be a marathon runner yeah did like a 320 did like a 324 weighing like 235 really something wild like that's insane yeah it was that guy's a super stud yeah i mean that's up there I mean, you know, when you consider the body weight, right? Like some of these people, I mean, getting in that three-hour range,

but also weighing like 230 plus is pretty remarkable. This is something I've been thinking about recently. Do you think like the Bill Casmeyers and like Mark Halls of the world were better strong men than these Mitch Hoopers and Thor's and stuff like that? Or do you think these guys are just so much bigger and stronger? I think it's a lot of figuring, you know, they figured things out better. You know, and I think the same thing's probably happening in the marathon. You got the different shoes.

Yeah. And then just people figuring things out. You know, on the note of shoes, you know, I'm somebody that makes products and I make, you know, make the slingshot. And I make knee sleeves and knee wraps and stuff like that. And what we noticed was that for certain people that had certain body weights, the knee sleeves would give them more bounce, more rebound because they weighed less. Yeah. And I think that people aren't thinking about that. When you think about the super shoe, if the super shoe is going to give us a pretty good,

Like if Super Shoe is going to give me return, it's not going to give me that much return if I'm running, you know, a 10-minute mile pace. Yeah. And I'm 220 pounds or 210 pounds. Yeah. But the way it's going to sling someone forward, that only weighs 100 pounds or 110 pounds. Yeah. And they're applying a good amount of force in the ground. And they're running 14, 15, 16 miles an hour.

Yeah. They're probably going to get propelled differently than somebody that's just out there putting around. That's heavier. Yeah. It's some of my theory on it. Well, it's just an extra fascial layer type thing. And if you think about it, like the elasticity versus my body versus someone to use double my body weight, it's just not going to be able to spring back with as much torque.

But I literally like every single time I think about this stuff with like the world's strongest man kind of thing. I was a huge Bill Kassmeyer fan. And I loved watching these guys going so aggressively. And I was like, when I watch them now, I'm like, why don't they act the same? Like those guys, what was the name, Magnuson Magnus? Yeah, Magnus for Magnuson. Yeah, like that guy was like super stud too. And I'm like, these guys when they were competing, they were like so freaking aggressive.

And now these guys kind of just like lift up the big dumbbell. And I was like, are they still as tough? Or is it just like, has it gotten like a little bit lamer? Like before they, remember when they used to like hold swords out and stuff like that? Everything's, everything's more lame because it's like more dialed in. And there's more like when you go to, you go to one of these events, they're beautifully set up. And everyone should be grateful to like rogue fitness and somebody's, other companies that stepped in and made all these props and things. But back years ago, when it came

to Strongman, you couldn't really warm up. They would have their stones and have their things that were calibrated and their things that were a certain way. They only had one set. And then so the warm up room would be like, all right, well, good luck, you know, warming up with some dumbbells, doing some RDLs before you go and pull a set weight. You know, the weight would be set at like 700 pounds. And they would just say, all right, let's see who can, you know, pull that for however many reps. You know, so like these guys weren't able to warm up on the same things. Things were just more rugged. The stones themselves would have, you know,

so it might be like a 300 pound stone, but there might be like 87 pounds shifted off to like one side because somebody, whoever made it, they actually would actually like stick plates in there and stuff. So they didn't have like Slaterstones and like they didn't have all these things. So I think that the guys years ago, they just did it like it was more rugged. And also, sometimes when you watch some of those old school World Strongest Man, I remember there was one where they're like, they're towing like a trolley or train. Yeah. And they couldn't stop it.

And a couple of guys had the thing like run over their legs and shit. And they got hurt and they got like they couldn't they couldn't continue. So not that that was better, but it just was different. And also two people weren't specialists. Yeah. Those dudes would come in. Like if you remember they had Ken Patera who was a former professional wrestler for WWF. they had who also was the first American to put 500 over his head.

They had some bodybuilders come in there. They had NFL football players coming in. So it's like they had these guys kind of almost walking off the street competing against like the Bill Casmeyers and stuff like that. It was just interesting. It was different time. Do you think people are getting stronger? It's a hard thing to think about it.

Like is anyone stronger than Ed Cohn? Like it's hard to think. I don't know. Ed Cohn, you know, Ed Cohn pulled 900. at 220, he squatted over 1,000 pounds. He benched nearly 600 pounds. Yeah. Or is it like training's gotten better?

I don't think that training's gotten better. I don't think that people are stronger or faster personally. I think physiques are a lot worse than they used to be. I mean that honestly. Like W, sorry, not WW. A small waist used to be a big thing. Yeah, like Olympia was so cool back in the day. I think that's the reason why Chris Bumstead got so famous because he brought the aesthetics

back. and even he's almost gotten a little bit bigger than, like I was just like, what the heck's happening? I just think, I don't know, like these sports are, like we're trying to keep on reaching. I think the last really cool mass monster was Dorian Yates. And then Ronnie Coleman was amazing. But then all of a sudden, these guys all just kind of got bulbous

and just weird shapes. And like, I'm not even excited about watching Mr. Olympia anymore, but we used to have posters of these guys on walls and stuff. And the golden era guys. Like my biggest fan, was Mike Menser, like I was the biggest fan of his stuff. And I studied his stuff and he was the first person because I started reading the first ever book I got into for exercise stuff was the four hour body. And they were referring to his stuff of that really high intensity stuff. And I got

really into him and then he got me really into philosophy. He was a big kickoff guy. Yeah, one set. Yeah. And I was like, God dang, man. These guys had the greatest physiques. And they were so fucking strong. And now all of a sudden I look at these bodybuilder guys and I'm like, hmm, not cool. Do you think the gear's gone bad, the training's gone bad? I think there was something unique about maybe not having the ability to put so many hours into it every day. Yeah. I think that modern fitness people and modern athletes, they spend mainly all day working on their craft, which is important. I mean, because you're trying to keep up with everybody else, I guess.

but I think some of these guys maybe just for some reason things were more raw they didn't have all the supplements steak and eggs you know Vince Gerunda would eat steak and eggs steak and steak and potatoes type thing and they didn't really I think we have a tendency to really overthink stuff oh what's going to happen when I have this particular protein powder with this particular you know and I have this particular carbohydrate post workout so I think that um there's books that have been written about this but people don't think that anyone one's faster than Jesse Owens was. Really?

Well, I think the materials, like, do, tracks have even changed, by the way. The tracks, the shoes, everything. Yeah. You know one thing that really changed my life just recently? I started working with this guy, Coach Cal, and, you know, big shout out to him. Amazing person. I can only speak the nicest and most highly of him. I could ever imagine any conditioning coach I've ever worked with.

I was always such a macro nutrient guy. And it sounds like you are too. Like, I was like watching your stuff. and like I used to shit on you. Remember the war against carbs? Oh yeah, one carbs. Yeah,

like I would shoot shit back and forth with you. And I was very much of that camp as well. And I believe so much in the macro nutrients and I always avoid the micronutrients. And then I realized about two years ago and through this like last chapter of my life, I had reached this ceiling. Something had gone wrong with me and I couldn't figure it out. I went to go work with him and he did some testing on me. And he goes,

you're just missing so many of these. micronutrients, this is what's getting in the way of your chain of your body getting better. And he was just talking in ways that like, basically talking like an astrophysicist. He's like, the molecular, like, oh, dude, I wish I could understand what you're saying. And then he minimized it down. He's like, I just need you. I think sometimes these lights fade out. But eventually he was like, I just need you to increase your potassium a lot.

And we got a number settled down. And I increased that. And I got that number down. and my body and my performances have shifted so much that it changed my ideals on nutrients fully like 180. You know, it doesn't, just diet-wise, like for me, the war on carbs was, I was 330 pounds and I needed to lose weight,

and cutting out carbohydrates was super useful for me and what I was doing. Yeah. Is it the most ideal to hold on a muscle mass? Is it the most ideal for performance? Like, hell no. Like, it just doesn't, it's not a, amazing for that, but for me for weight loss and for control of my overall calories, it was really important. But I agree with you a ton on, it's not just a macros.

The micros are a huge piece of the puzzle. And if you're to cut out carbohydrates, then you're cutting out like fruit and you're cutting out things that you probably would get a lot of these micronutrients that we're talking about. Supplementation is kind of an interesting, supplementation I think is really interesting because ordering, you know, you're mentioning like all your clothes are off. Amazon you know a lot of this stuff that people order off Amazon they try to get magnesium and different supplements off Amazon and unfortunately quality control

I know people that have tested these supplements and maybe like half of them come back with the amount of magnesium or the amount of potassium or the amount of vitamin D so we think we're doing something healthy for our body yeah and a lot of times we're not so you know trying to check your sources and try to figure out where you're getting some of these micros obviously getting stuff from food It would probably be, you know, top priority and then trying to figure things out from there. I know this is a rabbit hole to go down, but if you freak out about that, dude, then all of a sudden you can also freak out about the food that you're eating and the actual microdensity density, micronutrient density that's coming out of the soil. And like, is even that dead?

Like, who's going to single batch test these potatoes that I'm supposedly getting from whole foods that cost an extra two bucks per potato compared to Ralph's? And is organic? Does it mean much? Yeah. Does it still have glycephosate on it? Oh, dude. I panicked out of stuff. plastics. It's every, I mean, it's funny because at the grocery store, when you go to check out, they only give you a paper bag. Oh, yeah. But everything you just purchase is in plastic.

Oh, dude, do you remember the California banned single-use plastic bags? And then they brought in a different plastic bag company. And then later on, you find out that the plastic bag company that we're now paying for can't be recycled. Like, it's just like this crazy ass and thing. You're like, wait, what? Did we just get bamboozled to paying for bags? Like, I, well, I, well, say though like I when I was talking about the micronutrient thing do you think if you could go back now to when you first got started with the information that you had like do you think your numbers could just be that much better or do you think you gave everything you had because I'm on the tail end of my career right now and I'm like fuck I wish I knew man I think I think for what you do I think it's different

you know I think because you can cut seconds and time and you can like you know get better at this thing or that thing for lifting I mean power lifters just don't always look so great, right? And when I was powerlifting, when I was at my strongest, I was just big and fat. Yeah. And I know a lot of power lifters who just had like, they didn't have good nutrition. Yeah. Hardly at all. So I, I don't really know. I guess one thing I could say is that as I got bigger and bigger, I had a harder time sleeping. Oh, yeah. Did you have the sleep app and your mask on? Yeah. And I, and I couldn't even get it to work. You know, I just, I, I, I couldn't sleep very well. So if I could have figured out my sleep,

then I definitely would have been, I would have been able to be stronger. But I don't know. The only thing that would help that help my sleep was to lose a bunch of weight. Can you help me answer something? Why is it that when we were kids, we could sleep anywhere in the back of a car,

being carried by our parents, in the dirt in the field? Now that we're like older men, like we're, I'm taking sleep supplements. I've got things in my nose. Like I'm like, I'm putting ear plugs in.

I have become the biggest bitch when it comes to sleeping. How is that? Why does that happen? Like you'd think that as you get older, for potentially you'd have less energy, you'd be more tired and need more rest. I sleep like, I mean, not always like shit, but it's amazing to me how much I have to put into it. It's to, it's to be able to just to shut down and to shut off. Down regulate? And to, yeah, and down regulate quickly.

You know, like a really small child possesses the ability to do that amazingly. You were saying like falling asleep, like, as your parents are like holding you or carrying you or something. Yeah. A baby, you know, a baby could be screaming its head off. It could be so mad. You give it a bottle. Unconscious. Yeah, just out cold and it's just, you know, it's incredible.

But we, you know, it's hard. I think we're thinking of stuff so much. Plus, let's face the facts. I mean, I know 100% sure that overtraining really cuts in your sleep hard. Yeah. And we don't admit it. We don't talk about it. We don't think about it.

But sometimes you toss and turn. You're like, ah, just feel uncomfortable. That's probably over training. Yeah. And what is overtraining? Like when do you actually recover from something? Like some people have said like, oh, you know, maybe takes a few weeks to recover from a marathon. Some people are like, actually, if you're running a marathon pretty hard, it might take you a few months. When I overtrained a handful of years ago in 2024 leading up to the world championship, I was not normal again for almost a year. And like we were talking about her.

A year. That's a long freaking time. Honest answer. Remember I told you like something was wrong with my metabolic system. I think I had crashed out my metabolic system so badly by under-eating, chronically overtraining and trying to hit this X marks the spot. Probably you didn't you probably felt like you didn't look as good either, right? Like your physique, you kind of know. I was hollowed out. Yeah, isn't that weird? Yeah, I was hollowed out. Like I just didn't look. Like right now, dude, if I take off my shirt, there's like veins popping out of my chest and like I'm so dense. That's because of the trend I gave you before the show. 100%. Thank you. Thank you. Very generous. Right in the neck. But it's amazing. Like my body now looks like a hot.

rod and it's like ready to go just like pick the race course put me out there let's go and I I started messing around and really researching like things like HRV and different like versions of measurements that are under the skin like how do you find out what's really going on the body like one of the basic tests is take a grip strength tester and squeeze it every single morning let's say your baseline 150 pounds like if you rip a 130 120 140 means you're tired 1 30 130 means you're like that's under percent that's over 10 percent exhaustion once you get below 130 now all of a sudden it's very clear that your nervous system it's like you're not going to lose that much grip strength overnight but your nervous system's firing so poorly that it's not time to hammer so i started to get into that and i think

that was dan john that i read about that from and now like i am so diligent about hrv testing and reading the numbers all the time that if i do it properly and i actually catch the pendulum swing on the perfect moment, like the precipice of its most highest potential, I fucking fly. Like it's ungodly, how strong I am. But when it's swinging back the other way, I need to let it go all the way. I can't cock it back and start dragging it this way because I want to. Can you still train? Like, so ideally you want your HRV to be high. Right? So when your HRV is a little lower, can you still train or you have to just modify how you train? It's almost like movement. It would be like if like if you imagine like bench pressing, like let's just

say you like you did a heavy bench press day on like a Friday on like Sunday like you'd have like a moderate day the next day moderate day the next day a primer day on Sunday and then nuclear on on on Monday but you'd need to watch the pendulum start swinging back up and what like primer movements is like you could still bench and do like speed work but like it's clear that you're not putting 315 pounds on like now maybe you're working actually under 200 pounds at speed with like an OVR bar speed tester to just keep movement patterns like flying. For me, like this morning, this may sound like a pathetic workout to everybody else who sees me as a world champion. I went for a 45 minute run and I did 10 sets of 10 wall balls with a 30 pounder. Like that is, would be considered

a wimps workout to almost anybody who's in this sport. But I recognize that tomorrow is a nuclear day. And heart rate was 130, 140 something like that. It's nothing, dude. It's nothing. Like we would be talking the same way we are right now. And it takes you such a long time to dismiss that ego inside you. I hate talking about ego, but like we all want it. We all assume that the more that we're digging, the closer we're getting towards our goals. And eventually it's just diminishing returns.

And like I had just like found this out. And like I'm 37 now. It's pretty ridiculous that like everybody doesn't talk about this. And I found out about it now. And I probably have lost probably three or four world titles because of it. What about like days off? They're there. Yeah.

Wednesdays are like 30 minutes of working out and like really easy and then hiking and Sundays are fully off with like hiking. I remember years ago there was a guy that was that I was trying to catch on the bench press and he yeah, he only, he would only bench once a week, you know, and he would do, he would do like assistance exercises on that same day so he didn't even touch like triceps. He didn't do, he didn't do any extra work during the week. And I just remember him telling me, he goes, you know, I just think that these guys that go in there and they want to do things like three or four times a week, I just think they're nervous.

Yeah. He's like, be confident. He's like, you're already really good at bench and so don't worry about it. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, you know, don't worry about it. It's like kind of an interesting way to put it. But if you worry about it less and you're not so stressed out about it and you're not overdoing it, then maybe you can manage that fatigue a little bit better.

And maybe every time that you train, imagine, imagine just if every time that you train you're like maybe 5% better or 10% better. What if you only train once a week with something with a skill like running or something and you only do a particular style of run like one time per week, but you can give it a little extra, you can give it like five or 10% more, but your heart rate is still a little lower. So then you're, you know what I mean? You start to really think about this and you're like, I'm recovering. You know, I'm able to put more effort in, but I'm recovering better and better all the time. And it's like you now have a shot of actually getting past yourself

and past where you've been before. Yeah. Well, dude, I don't think a lot of people focus on the term minimum effective dose and because no one's going to romanticize a story of a minimum effective dose. Like I think Tim Ferriss's four hour body was the first time that was ever introduced to us, this idea of creating an amazing body in like four hours of training a week or something like that

or a month. But we all want to hear these. Rambo stories because it's sexy. You're like, fucking Rambo was in the woods doing what? If you chop wood for two days straight, you're like, I want to do that. And like it's, it's the idea that we all get caught up in, which is like more is better. And I hate to be this person now that's like, I've been on the other side of the fence being like grind. And I've told my like soldiers below me to grind. And now I'm just finding out that it's not true. Well, you also know, so for you personally, you know your maximal recoverable volume, right? Like

You must have a good understanding of that. Totally. And you must know how it feel. I mean, I've seen you do some of your runs, like, you know, where you live in Malibu seems to be amazing to have access to trails and different things like that. But I'm seeing you're like, you're doing like a six-minute, you know, six-30-minute mile pace or something running through these hills and stuff. And I'm like, man, this seems brutal. And what I admire is that you're like, my heart rate's a little higher, but this is where we're at for today. I kind of have to do this.

So I think that's the hard thing to know for the people that are newer. They don't want to be a pussy. They don't want to like pull back. So how do you kind of figure that side of things out? I think the most important thing you can do in this game is you have to come and do like a battery test, figure out who you really are,

have that ugly conversation in the mirror, like this is really where I'm at. And it's just like if you go into a karate dojo, like you're given a white belt and you're not told to do all the kicks that a black belt's doing. It's like there's a reason why. It's like, hey, listen, we got to master like, just like Mr. Miyagi, like one kick a thousand times rather than like, you know, 10,000 kicks one time. Mastering the craft of just being the basics allows you to be excellent when the things get complicated.

And like now that I've just like really been in this for a long time, I do so few movements, but I do them so fucking well that I'm a Titan. And I also make sure that like I invite people from all over. over the world to come train with me. I have these training camps. Pro athletes fly in and they're about seven day training camps. Day three, everybody's dead. We go day one easy, day too hard, day three moderate. And they went hard, hard crash.

Happens every single time. And it's mind blowing, like even the most talented athletes you'll ever see and it's like the slow and steady wins the race term. Do they understand that they can kind of, are they allowed to go at their own pace? Or do you have like specific things that are gonna sort of just beat the shit out of them either way? I tell everybody, I'm like, listen, this is the workout. You have to do it the way that you're going to do it.

But like if you don't attempt, you're never going to shift. The days that those are happening, we have to have that conversation. But the easy days, I'm like, guys, power hike if you need to, lift lighter if you need to. Don't skip a movement if you need to. And they don't listen to that probably. No, no, never. I mean, next week starting Tuesday, Monday, for 12 days, I'm having a couple pros come out with me and it will be the last big shift that I will do leading up to world championships. It will be just like a 12 day real push. In that time, like I am trying to find a way to keep on pushing myself without going over the edge. Like you're going to reach those nights where you wake up sweating in the middle of the night and then you need to pull back a little bit and you have that

conversation. You'd be like, okay, a little bit slower tomorrow, a little bit slower the next day. And then we slingshot and we fucking kill them on Thursday. And like it's the craziest thing to me that like I used to be that person too, the grind through, but like I have figured it out just those pendulums. If you catch them just perfectly, dude, it's unbelievable. What's, what's going on in your head when you're doing something

that's really, really brutal? Do you want to know the most basic things? I count. Like, if you can count to four, you can beat anything. Like, even if you're in a fight, throw four punches, count four times to rest.

Throw four more punches. Count four times to rest. What happens with a lot of, lot of athletes and I've just studied it over time. I always am studying my competitors. It's like you want to see their physical body stature, but then you also want to watch their eyes and you want to watch the way that they're moving. And you can see like last year, and I mean this in the most respectful way possible, I watched the prior world champion at world championships warming up and I knew immediately he was going to have a bad race.

He had too much going on and he was just like, you know, I was like, it's not going to be good for him. And he came ninth. And you know what? He's already won a world title. So congrats, dude. But not every day is going to be your day unless you're dialed. But for me, like, dude, working with this coach Cal guy, he just destroys me once every two Saturdays. It's like absolutely completely spine and soul crushing training to the point where like I have pooped my pants and I've almost cried in front of him. I saw he put a girl on an assault bike with bands attached. I just had. Yep.

Is that death? Yeah, dude, think about it. It bands attached to your hands and your feet as you're doing the assault bike. Dude, it feels like Hercules, like, you know, with the chains attached to you and like you're just like locked in or is that Solomon. What was the name of the guy? Samson. Samson. Samson. It was like Samson. You walk over after doing this like physical test that he put you through and you're going through and we did five rounds of this.

He then puts you in these things and you have a muscle oxygen sensor on your leg, which is reading the amount of oxygen that's actually in your muscle group, which is insanely. deep intelligence that I've not seen other trainers do because they know they're you think you failed whole soxymeter right no no no no it's a muscle it's an SMO2 not instead of SPO2 which is crazy science and he puts it on your leg and he puts these things on and immediately now because your body is probably out so far out that the resistance already immediately started and then you step out another two feet and you get on this bike they're holding onto the bike so it doesn't pull back and they're holding onto the other thing so the weight rack doesn't pull forward and you're at this point of like absolute tension. And now he's like, go. And he's watching the screen with your oxygen

sent, your oxygen coming down. And when you get down to single digits, I swear to you, dude, you think that you were done at 20. He drags you down to the single digits. And you're just begging. You're like, dude, I have no more. He's like, I can see on the screen you have more. How long does that take? A round of going from 50 to 10 and going back and forth to the point where you're prime to go below 10 is probably about three to six minutes, depending on how exhausted you are already. And a lot of people are looking at this and they're saying, they're like, I watch him. This guy has no fucking clue what he's talking about. This dude is a scientist to the umpteenth degree. And you can see by the level of people that are there, once you've experienced it,

you're like, oh, this is what like Yoda talks about. Like, it's just a level of intelligence that's just not there with anybody else. And like, it's just, just total muscle failure, dude. Like I, as I tell you, like, my body is letting go of things. Like, you know, when someone dies, they suppose to, like, shit their pants? You're right. That's me. Right on the first.

I was like, dude. Are you able to still count to four? Yeah. I'm begging. I mean, dude, he just throws numbers out there. He's like, I need you to do this. I was like, please just get to four. Just get to four.

And like, don't cry. Don't. And it's made everything else in my life so much easier because you do need to, like, get as close to the sun as possible without completely burning out. And you can only do that. a very small acute period of time. Otherwise, your body will over train break. But yeah, man, like, I mean, I'll tell you, I think probably most excellent athletes are either talking to God or talking to themselves. And like my version of talking to God and myself is through a numerical

representation. It's like one, two, three, please Jesus. One, two, like just get up there. Nothing else. You can't allow anything else. You can't allow a fight that you had at home. an issue that you have with your taxes, like any of these things that could just pop up that are like deep down insecurities that are like underneath the surface that we all try to ignore. And in the worst moments of your absolute life, they will come to the surface again. They'll bubble up and try to break you. And that's when you have to just keep the number count going. Are these moments when you, you know, kick your own ass that much?

Are they anything related to things you've dealt with in the past where you've had, you've been open about drug addictions and certain drugs, heroin, cocaine, things like that. Does it get your brain or your mind close to that, close to something similar or is it way different? I would say at least for my case, and I think probably a lot of people that I'm friendly with in the similar context, like the other pro athletes,

they may not want to express this honestly, but it took me a long time to understand that my version of doing these things is like a version of me being seen. Like I probably had a really hard time being seen and a divorced family with three older brothers and everybody's moving around. Half the family's over here. Dad's over there.

Mom's doing this. Mom's got a new boyfriend. Dad's got a new wife. Like it's just the separation of it all. And you're just a smallest person in the room and you just want to be seen. It took a long time to understand this and like find this. And winning and being better than everybody else is the fastest way to be seen. And the only way to reach that point is to be harder on yourself so that when everyone

is breaking and having the hardest moments of life, you've gone harder and you will be seen better than everybody else because you've gone through the hardest shit. And I don't know if this is all absolutely true. It's just what I've come to the conclusion of. Like, why do I do this? And why have I gone to this extent? Like, what does it represent anymore? Because I've won 10 world titles. I don't think me sitting across the table from you if I won the world title this year, you'd be like, Hunter, you're so much cooler than when I saw you last. It doesn't matter anymore. But for me, it does and I'm like why do I still keep going there and like two pieces one probably I don't want to let go of that being seen thing and two I know that I have more to give but I don't know

which argument's more important anymore I think you're in a little bit of a tough spot because I think that high rocks and some of these things are going to continue to grow yeah and I think I think 10 years from now you'll be talked about and praised probably differently than like I think that maybe people aren't enjoying you being here right at this very moment the way that they should. Yeah. Because I think you're an all-time great. And I just think that the obstacle course racing and the different things, I don't think they get the respect. Broken Skull Ranch, like people just don't, they don't understand or know, you know,

how difficult something like that is. They don't have anything to compare it to. They never really, maybe some people have done some CrossFit. Maybe they've, you know, gone into the gym and tried a couple things. but they haven't really done the blend or the mix of different things that you're doing. And I think, you know, as time goes by, you'll start to be looked at maybe a little bit like a rich frowning or something like that. We'll see. I mean, it's weird to like think that I started something out of like I stumbled into this.

Like I just got out of rehab. I'd just gotten done trying to be a model. I'd just gotten done trying to figure out anything at that point, like that young wee lad being like, what am I? And then this thing pops up and you're like, I'm pretty good at this. And then within three races, I was fully sponsored. And I have not stopped doing this for 15 years straight. And the checks keep on getting bigger and the opportunities keep on getting bigger. And it doesn't always have to be monetarily driven, as I'm saying.

But like, the magic carpet ride hasn't stopped. And I haven't fully been able to understand the value of it all. I'm trying to be like responsible with it in the way that it's like, I still want to keep on being great. but I also don't want to lose touch with just what being like a human's like, as weird as that sounds. One thing I've had a really hard time with, not in like a negative way,

but just a way of unpacking it is like almost everybody I've ever looked up to in sport has a pretty negative downfall when they retire. Like if we look at almost any of the excellent, excellent ones, you find out what looked on the backside or they're exiting years. You're like, oh shit. And I'm like, how am I going to do with that? Or they kept trying to return. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're like, dude. and you're like, how do you let go of it peacefully? So it's something I'm unpacking. I'm sure you probably had to do it when you were letting go of being the strongest guy in the planet at one point. Like, you're like, how do I let go of that? Yeah, I'm very fortunate. You know, I have two kids and they were pretty young. I mean, they're older now.

They're 18 and 22, so. But I just made it easy, like to kind of transition into that. And I've always been a family-oriented, grounded, or at least I felt that way. You know, I like to have fun. I like to mess around. you know, mess with my hair and talk trash, kind of like yourself, you know, talk a little shit, especially years ago. But I am like grounded in family and I just, I also enjoy helping other people. Yeah. You know, as much as I maybe talk trash or say certain things or do certain

things, I do enjoy actually helping people. I think it seems like you're similar. I love it. It's becoming a big thing. Like our coaching business has grown like to a really sizable thing where it's like now all of a sudden when I go around the world, there are people that are learning from my philosophies. And it's like pretty cool when I have people step into my realm and I get to like push them in the way that I'm like, this is where the growth starts for you. Like I watch them and I'm like,

hey, listen, you may think there's all these things, but I'm like, this is the growth point. And like it's very fun. We both have picked shitty sports, I would say, to be seen. Yeah. To be seen or observed, we both picked poor sports or the poor sports chose us. Yeah.

No one gives you shit about my life. power lifting either. No, dude, I get anger with my parents all the time. I'm like, why didn't you just keep me in football pads? That's right. We would be on a tropical island right now having this conversation. But I'm grateful in the way that like, I don't know. Like I think maybe this is a really good path for me because I had to be humbled all the time by walking into rooms all the time and being undervalued. And then it created this very aggressive design in my mind to find and show people that value. It's like, I'm going to work twice as hard. I think it's cool too. That's like, Like your level of fame is, like I'd imagine when you run into people that are fans of yours,

they're probably fanatical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? They know a lot about you. They follow a lot of the stuff. And they're also out there trying to do some, they're emulating. You know, they're trying to do some of the stuff that you're doing. I think that that's, to me, that's like flattering.

Yeah. I mean, I love my dude, dude. Like I have like a savage pack of just men out there. Like if you look at my analytics, it's like 98% man, follow you. I'm like, yes. The boys make the noise. And it's great. I mean, like, I'm grateful the fact that they're there and like, especially dude over in Europe, this sport, if you go over to the UK, I could crowd surf across the room

to the start line. Like, it's insane. I don't know why it's so big over there. It's like, I guess people in the UK don't have anything better to do because it's just gray all the time, but you're just like, holy shit. Indoor sports, right? That's what they need. They even more indoor shit. And it's, I mean, it's definitely like over there, if you want to be a god, you just hang out in London for like two days and you're just a superstar. When did you first find out about high rocks. 2019, no, 2018, the founder and I had a coffee and he was just like, you need to become my new champion. And I was like, I have no clue what you're fucking talking about, dude. Like, I get called

all the time. Like, come try this thing. And I'm like, the time I was focusing on the CrossFit games. And I decided after the CrossFit games, that ended in August. And he, I was like, I'll come to you won your first one ever in Miami. And I beat the prior world champion and world record holder, like the first one. And I was like, okay, here we go. And I was prime. for it at the time. Like I think, you know, he was a very talented athlete, but I was primed. Like, I was like, this is like fucking 12 years of just like perfect design for this moment. And I actually tried quitting in 2022 because like, I was like, this is going nowhere. I'm getting like $100 gift certificates as cash prizes for winning. And I'm like, this is not going to

work out. And I actually was going to try to go to the Olympics and paddling. And then that didn't work out because of just these weird loopholes of trying to get into like Olympic qualifiers. And by the time I'd come back, I was like, I'll just do it one. more time and then it just hockey stick. Like it was like, oh shit, this is a real thing now. And I mean, as I said, like, I guess I'm just holding on to the tether of a rocket ship and just seeing where it goes. Will you compete again? I compete at Worlds in five, six weeks. I know you did like a doubles competition, right? Yeah. Last year. And then this year, are you by yourself? Are you with someone else? Or unfortunately, probably by the time this podcast

comes out, like it will be already in the open. But like my doubles partner, we were trying to go win the doubles world title. Like solo is my primary goal, but I was like, I'm going to try to see if I can finish my career off with a single and a doubles world title and just fucking eviscerate the field. And he just broke his foot like two, three weeks ago. So really awesome guy, Jake. So I'm just all in on solos. And it's a very like honorable thing. I think like it's a samurai's death just like going there with like absolutely everything you have against the field and whatever happens happens. And I, I feel stronger than I've ever been the fastest I've ever been. we're definitely going into the toughest field we've ever seen. But I've won three world titles now and

I lost the world title last year by four seconds. I literally just came right up in the guy and crawled all the way to the last minute. And I was like, I still have that in my blood. So I'm going to give it one more go. Who's the guy that beat you? And like what do you got to do to get him? His name's Tim Winnish. He's like represents the runner side of the field. I represent the strength side the field. So rather than trying to close the gap on him running, I decided to go all in on strength this year. I was like, that's where I'm actually, I need to go back to where I'm best representing this sport. It's like, I can go into the stations and I can dominate them. And I don't need to move my running that much. Even if I gain just a little bit in running, but I get huge chunks out

of like the sleds, the burpees and the lunges and wall balls, I was like, I'll fucking tear them to shreds. So that's my goal this year. I mean, anybody's watching this. No, that I'm coming for you that way. I'm going to fucking bulldoze through all those. I think I saw I use a hundred pound medball for some wall balls. Yeah. That's insane. Yeah. I mean, it's all the coaches like thing. I think that's where I said I lost sight of some of the things that made me really excellent because I tried to go into that lane where I studied strength to weight ratio and I was like, I need to cut the cost, cut the cost rather than increase the output, increase the output. I will never go to a doctor ever again about my general health. All they want to do is put you on pills.

Really well said there by Dana White. Couldn't agree with them more. A lot of us are trying to get jacked and tan. A lot of us just want to look good, feel good. And a lot of the symptoms that we might acquire as we get older, some of the things that we might have, high cholesterol or these various things, it's amazing to have somebody looking at your blood work as you're going through the process, as you're trying to become a better athlete, somebody that knows what they're doing. They can look at your cholesterol. They can look at the various markers that you have. and they can kind of see where you're at and they can help guide you through that. And there's a few aspects too where it's like, yes, I mean,

no, no shade to doctors, but a lot of times they do want to just stick you on medication. A lot of times there is supplementation that can help with this. Merrick Health, these patient care coordinators are going to also look at the way you're living your lifestyle because there's a lot of things you might be doing that if you just adjust that, boom,

you could be at the right levels, including working with your testosterone. And there's so many people that I know that are looking for, they're like, hey, should I do that? They're very curious. And they think that testosterone is going to all of a sudden kind of turn them into the Hulk. But that's not really what happens. It can be something that can be really great for your health because you can just basically live your life a little stronger,

just like you were maybe in your 20s and 30s. And this is the last thing to keep in mind, guys, when you get your blood work done at a hospital, they're just looking at like these minimum levels. At Merrick Health, they try to bring you up to ideal levels for everything you're working with. Whereas if you go into a hospital and you have 300 nanograms per deciliter of test, you're good, bro, even though you're probably feeling like shit. At Merrick Health, they're going to try to figure out what things you can do in terms of your lifestyle. And if you're a candidate, potentially TRT.

So these are things to pay attention to to get you to your best self. And what I love about it is a little bit of the back and forth that you get with the patient care coordinator. They're dissecting your blood work. It's not like if you just get this email back and it's just like, hey, try these five things. Somebody's actually on the phone with you going over every step and what you should do. Sometimes it's supplementation. Sometimes it's TRT. And sometimes it's simply just some lifestyle habit changes. All right, guys, if you want to get your blood work checked and also get professional help from people who are going to be able to get you towards your best levels, heads to

Merrickhealth.com and use code power project for 10% off any panel of your choice. And this year was all about increase the output. It's like if you were asked to do 20 pound wall balls, train with 100. They will never be a question whether or not you'll finish them. And if you're asked to do sled work with this much weight, always do more and try to find ways to just put as much energy into that as possible. And what it's doing is it's not necessarily exhausting me. It's actually protecting me for what I'm doing next. Like I'm not as exhausted by the time I get to the run because I've worked so much on harder shit.

So it's worked really well. Like my transitions in and out of these things are so aggressive. And like that's what you need in the sport is you can't go like this. and then crash down for a bit and then come back out again. Yeah, I saw you even like being very tactical with your burpee broad jumps. Everything. Like just like the way that you were like getting up from them. And it was just repetitive.

Like you just did the same way every time. Dude, I'm doing hundreds of reps like that a week. People filming me, people watching me. The sport's gotten to be such a big thing or I think it's getting a little bit into a negative place because it's just like overjudging. Like these people are a little bit like in the way of everything. but I guess rather than complaining just be better. Hard to standardize too, right?

You mentioned the sled sometimes a little different and can't really worry too much about the times but worry about like just trying to win, I guess. Horses, not courses. Like, I mean, listen, you may for some reason be like, you know, at this meet you were the best and there was somebody at another meet who pushed out more weight but then all of a sudden you show up a world championships together

and you just need to beat that person that day and you have to make sure of it. Like, you know, there's great numbers out there. they're meant to inspire but also set fear in competitors and from a psychological standpoint you have to let go of what's not in your room right then so as i said it's like you just got to win on the day and i'm very confident that on the day like this plan's going to work so have you seen colton ingabrit the powerlifter is that the reddish blondeish hair guy who's a fucking freak yeah 1,036 squat, 1,00036 deadlift.

I think he did like with straps, like at the end of a competition, I think just for the hell of it. He did like an 1140 deadlift or something crazy. So like we were talking earlier about like, you know, people getting stronger and are people getting faster and stuff. I think they are. Like I want to be a little bit more clear about that. I think they are in some ways.

But there's just advancements of the barbells and stuff. And there's just more people in it. Like powerlifting, it's not that, it's not as popular as it was a few years back. maybe about 10 years ago, power lifting was on a pretty good upswing. Yeah. And we were seeing a lot of records broken. And so I think with high rocks and where it's at now and it still seems to be growing, that the records will continue to be, you know, broken all the time.

People will, somebody one day is just going to like do the burpee broad jump and they're going to like do it backwards or something. Someone's going to be like, that's dumb, but they're somehow going to be faster. Yeah. You know, just the same thing with people doing the hide jump and the guy jumping over the thing backwards. It's like no one ever thought of that before everyone jumped over it forward. Fosbury flop. Yeah. So people are going to continue to like figure out these little tiny tweaks they can make,

maybe even just what that other coach was doing, attaching bands to the assault bike. Maybe people will attach bands to the skier or, you know, you'll have all these different things that are probably going to happen within the sport. And people are just going to be, they'll be getting faster times, but whether they're better than the people that came before them would be, it's probably hard to tell. Don't get me wrong. innovation is brilliant. I'm just wondering with some of these sports, it's like, is it actually happening or is science of the material getting better? Like you remember when super suits came around and it's like

even your equipment is so much better that allows people to maybe protect their shoulders and develop their chest a lot more. And is that science? Is that improvement of humanity or is that improvement of synthetics and all this other stuff? And that's where I kind of get curious. And like, I don't want to seem ungrateful because our error didn't get to experience those. things, but more of like, how do we keep this as beautiful as it was, which is just the inception of sport rather than the inception of science? And I just like, I wonder. So don't get me wrong. I'm not hating on any of these records. I'm just more curious and angling and trying to figure out. I'm like, is this it? But we'll see. I mean, like, if I think it'll be really interesting to see

the enhanced games. And if people blow things out of the water, I'm like, okay. I'm a little confused with the enhanced games because they're selling face lotion now. Did you see that? That's amazing. It's so weird. It's like enhance your face with this beautiful cream. Oh, that's so funny. It's like very like erotic photos. I think they have like two different categories and they have like a category where they're studying people and they're like really trying to pay attention to their health. And then the other category of people that are in it are monitored by like their own doctor. So it's weird because I saw a video the other day and they were talking about, oh, they're only utilizing things that are FDA approved.

which just makes everything way stranger because just because something's FDA approved does not mean that it's safe. Yeah. Because of all the different ways that people may use some of these drugs. I mean, you get into FDA approval and you get into something like insulin, which can kill you like that. Yeah. If you don't know what you're doing with it. It's been used in sports for many, many years. But it also is very strange, though, too, because then you're like, okay, well, they're going to have Thor and Mitchell Hooper going against each other.

that would mean that if they're following the rules and that they're using stuff that's FDA approved, then they will be on the least amount of drugs than they've ever been before. Yeah. Which is odd, you know. So I don't understand exactly what they're doing. I think they are just trying to like push everything through whatever way they can because I'm sure there's probably a bunch of legality. And I'm grateful that that someone's doing this because this has been talked about for years. Yeah.

And SNL years ago did the All-Steroid Olympics. Have you ever seen that skit? The Russian guy goes to like do like a clean and jerk and his arms completely rip off and blood's squirting out and they're like, oh, he'll be back next year. I'm sure he'll be able to recover from that. But he has the All-Steroid Olympics. So anyway, the All-Storide Olympics are here and it'd be interesting to kind of see what happened. Are you going to go?

I'm not going to have the opportunity to go. I think I'm going to be with my family somewhere in Greece or something like that. Oh, poor you. It's, yeah, it's in Vegas this year, I think. Yeah, I think it's literally a couple weeks away. Like, I would be really interested to go. I just like, I don't know what I'm going to be witnessing, but I think for me at least, like, you know, all of us, like, maybe privately are kind of dreaming to see things like absolutely insane

happen, like run like an eight second 100. But is it going to really happen? Is science as cool as we think it is? Or is it going to be just a total story flop and just be like a PR stunt? I just think, I mean, I personally just think that sprinters have been utilizing all kinds of stuff. Oh, for sure. For many, many years.

And, you know, I'm not saying that people have won gold. people that have world records that they're all dirty, but there's track and field that has been riddled with with a lot of, a lot of drugs. I was reading this list the other day where it's like top 20 fastest 100 meter times of all time and five of them are from Usain Bolt and then there's red lines through all of the rest of them because they all popped. Yeah. And they use, they use unconventional stuff. I mean, they use stuff that will like stimulate the nervous system and stuff like that. Really? Medaphanil and, think, Adderall type things. Yeah. I forget what the, I forget but that line of drugs are called.

Phenemines? No, it's something's different. I mean, it might even be in a similar category of what someone might take if they had like, if they had like Parkinson's or something. Really? Because, yeah, it's like, it's, again, I'm forgetting the names, but it's things that really hit the nervous system. So it's not even like, it's not necessarily like you're injecting something,

you know, and trying to get your testosterone levels up. Yeah. So you can handle more training volume. It's just a little, like, heightened. yeah, a little heightened nervous system firing. Yeah. So like you just like, for example, like you were talking about watts. Yeah.

So imagine, you know, in 10 seconds you could produce, you know, 50 more watts than you normally could or something like, you know. Well, it's pretty sad. I was reading another list put on by the list triathletes showing the amount of medical exemptions that like Olympic level and world championship level athletes are getting to participate in sports. And like, I don't know if you remember, Alberto Salazar, like, had, like, half of the Nike team that was Olympians using, using asthma inhalers. And it's like, we all remember when we were kids hanging out with the kid with asthma.

It's like, you are not setting world records. And, like, that's another really weird thing that's just kind of like this gray area. It's like, come on. Yeah, uterol. Yeah, it opens up your lungs a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like bronchioli enhancers, things like that. And I was like, dude, like, I'm, I've been competing for such a long time and I'm not alone in this.

like I don't have medical issues. I might get like a cold every once in a while, but I don't need an inhaler or like creams that are like, you know, steroids or like cortisol shots and stuff like that. That's a big part of sport is like what makes it so extreme is like if you want to push human limits, you also have to avoid all the speed bumps and the crashes that come along with it like the little micro tear you get in your shoulder, the knee pain, the back pain, things like that. And if you're always able to enhance it, it's like you're not dealing, you're not playing the same game I am. Oh yeah. I mean, you can end up. way more messed up if you're bypassing all that all the time.

Yeah. And you're not actually like learning like what was, what's actually, because those things are actually meant, those are, I always looked at stuff like that as a training adaptation. Yeah. You know, I've been working on some sprints more recently and just running a little faster. And I just got like this kind of like thing in like my side. And I'm like, man, that, that sort of hurts. You know, I'm like rubbing on it and shit.

I'm like, that's just an adaptation. Like I just suck at this. I'm just, I'm new to this. And that's probably going to happen the next couple months. Do you do hills? Yeah, I do hills. I do all kinds of stuff. I would do hills almost exclusively.

Yeah, hills are, I mean, they're incredible, especially for me because they just give me a governor. You know, they kind of slow me down. They slow down the velocity. Yeah. I think hills and just like versions of like bounding plyometrics and things like that, I think like that is a massive way to make an athlete is this powerful, explosive and like actually athletic in a position.

We're all trying to just put tons of weight on our back and go up and down, but you're never going to be able to generate as much force they've shown as being able to sprint. Oh, you're not even close. Yeah. And do you feel better because of it? Oh, I feel amazing. How old do you know? I'm 49.

49. You don't look at it, dude. Thank you. I appreciate it. That's pretty radical. I feel incredible. I mean, every day I wake up and I'm super excited to work out. It's not like I wasn't excited to work out before.

Yeah. But I was beat up usually. I was kind of like, oh, you know, and I'd be like, I got to warm up forever. And I'm not like that anymore. Now I can just. You've aged gracefully. Thank you. Yeah.

I wonder, I do wonder if like wheels are going to fall off on me. I haven't gotten any major injuries, which I'm so lucky about. I think that, you know, for a lot of people, they're not, for a lot of people, it doesn't always matter this way because everyone's a little different. But like a lot of people just aren't in that good of shape. and they're not in that good of shape for what they're currently doing. Yeah.

So I hear people a lot of times they'll say, oh man, I wish I could run like you. I wish I could run, you know, handle a couple miles, but I always get shin splints. I was like, well, even if you're running fairly fast, even if you're somebody who's out there and you're able to run six and seven minute mile paces

and stuff like that for miles on end, if you're getting shin splints, then to me that just means you're not currently prepared for what it is that you're doing. Yeah. And so for yourself, I don't see Obviously there's always risk of Of injury

But I don't see you getting yourself All banged up from a sport Because you're in such good condition Do you remember Vasili The guy who was the greatest One wifter of all time? I remember watching a documentary about him And he was just laying on the ground

And all the kids were running around him And he had done so much damage To like his back and body Like when he hung out with a family He could only lay on the grass And I was like there's a good chance I'm gonna be like that Yeah when I see stuff like that

You know, I'm kind of like, I guess I'm very fortunate, too. Like I fell with some big weights and I've had all kinds of crazy shit happen to me. And I've also taken a lot of drugs and stuff like that too. So I'm very fortunate that I'm still, you know, put together enough to do all the things that I'm doing. But when I see that sometimes from other people where they're really destroyed, I'm like, man, I don't even know. I don't even know if it's worth it. But sometimes it's luck of the draw. Ronnie Coleman?

Yeah. Yeah, like, so Ronnie Coleman, unfortunately, he got hurt after his career was over. Really? He was just doing some heavy leg presses because he still loved the game. He still loved doing it. And I think it could have been an injury that he acquired during his bodybuilding career. Yeah. But he just had something pop on him when he was doing like some heavy leg presses a few years after he was already already done.

Yeah. And so like with Ronnie Coleman, it's like he wasn't really, he wasn't doing anything that he doesn't normally do. Yeah. So it just sucks that he got hurt. It's like just shitty. Our version of normal is insane though, dude. Yeah, I know. Our version of normal is insane.

I just, I don't even know. I think when I retire, I'm probably just going to mountain bike, use kettlebells and do a little bit of like bodybuilding. I think I may have like a three to five day a week routine. I think one of the keys to, you know, being able to stay ahead of it and to be able to kind of like see around corners is you really keep, you know, to work on trying to keep your mind fresh, but also know when to stop. Yeah. You know, you'll have to just know when to stop. Do you play any sports like pickleball or anything like that or you like keep yourself a little athletic

if you avoid that stuff? I don't play any pickleball, but I am getting more into like more movement. Yeah. You know, just like little stupid stuff. Like I'll just bring a ball with me when I go on a walk. Yeah. I'll bounce a ball around and I'll catch it and I'll, I'll work, you know, juggle it. I'll do all kinds of different stuff with it where I'm just like moving and reacting a little

differently because for some reason when you spend all this time in the gym forever, you kind of forget. I don't react to anything. Oh, totally, dude. I mean, even in high rocks, there's not really like a reaction to something someone else is doing. You don't have to like, you know, try to outmaneuver somebody necessarily. You're just hauling ass and going hard, right? So those are things that I do want to get more into. Just chucking around a football with a friend is just a great activity.

I know this sounds nerdy, but I think one of the best things you can do for like movement, but not aggressive movement is Frisbee golf. Oh, yeah. Hand-eye coordination, constant walking and a little bit of power in every single throw. And it's like, wow. And we use that. Like there's Brisbane golf courses all over the place where I live. And I'm just like, let's get out and go do this. And I swear to God, like it's my favorite way. I saw someone doing it like a few months ago. I was like, what the hell's this guy doing? I didn't even know he's doing. You got to get a disc.

Like throwing it and he's running. Yeah, dude, you got to get a disc. I'm telling you right now, like go out, play with your kids, things like that, your friends. It's so much fun. And like, people don't know this. There's courses all over the country. And they're not like country club courses where you have to like go and pay for this big reservation. It's like very rare to get in there. No, dude, like you go in, especially up in northern California, I bet you like all in those redwood forests they have them. Yeah. I guarantee dude. I know this is going to be, this is going to be my nerdy suggesting to you as I get into it. I should, I should look into it. I mean, I remember years ago you were telling me just to even hop on a bike, you know,

just to hop on like a, like a beach cruiser. Yeah. Because it's just it's one gear and cruising around the beach cruiser's hard. A little bit of hustle dude, a little bit of hill. Yeah. Yeah. Do you actually ride? Not much. Not as much as I'd like to. Disappointing.

I know. I'm sorry. So out of curiosity, is this, like, this is like the, this is a relaunch of your podcast. Is this 2.0, 3.0? No. Powercast is a power project? Yeah, this is power project. I had, I had a different podcast for years and years with another guy and then we just sort of broke the band up.

So I just restarted, you know, but that was years ago. We're here today. in Los Angeles at legendary foods in Santa Monica. They're just friends of mine and they're like, hey, you can come use this space anytime you want. Radical. And now it's open to you too because now you met everybody. So if you want to use this spot and you have people you want to interview,

they have all this shit just here just set up too. I just need a you. Yeah, you need a Ryan. Yeah. I've really gotten into this kind of stuff. You probably have some nerdy person you can bring with you. No, dude, I got a good team. Like that's been the biggest shift.

Like I... Not that Ryan's a nerd. No. Sorry. I run businesses now like you. Like I have 17 employees, not all full time, but like it blows my mind.

And like I actually have like it, I used to just be like a child, kind of just like a fit guy moving through time and space aggressively. And now like I have teams. Like we have people running our media. We have people running our social. We have people doing the back end of all the coaching and everything like that.

And it's fun, dude. Like if I decided that I wanted to go really into this project, I could do it. And like it's so amazing. Like now that I've built a team that I can actually, have an idea and it can actually become something. Before I was just kind of that dude where we'd sit around tables and just be high on mushrooms, be like, would it be cool dude to be like this? And it's like, no, dude, just take action. And it's changed my whole life. Like I'm, I'm really glad. What was that

switch for you, you think? COVID, dude. COVID, I went from being a well paid athlete. And when I say well paid, I mean, like, I felt like I was a successful person. I'm not NFL money by any means. But like, I was successful. I could, you know, get a house in the mountains. I could have a car here. I could have a car there, train in Colorado, live in California kind of shit. I was like, man, I'm doing it. And like, you know, when I say I was successful, I was paying like $400 months in Colorado, by the way. But COVID hit and I went from making a lot a month to under $3,000 a month, like snap. And I was like so vulnerable. Like people were just calling me and they're like, it's done. Like we're done working together. I had not done anything wrong.

It was just, and I don't blame them. This is not me shitting on anybody. And you're like, wow, I feel so powerless. And I am like actually a child. I didn't realize that I was kind of living in like metaphorically my parents' house still. Like these people were all kind of taking care of me so I could chase my dreams. Like, go out there and have fun, buddy.

And wear our shirt. And I was like, oh shit. And like, I was like, I'm never going to be a victim like that again. So immediately launched my training company a year later. my supplement company and I then about that same year started pushing McIntyre media management was just like the media vessel behind everything and up down, up down, up down, you know how it goes. And then all of a sudden like consistency is key. Like you're going to come up with a lot ideas. Some of them are going to be bad, but then the good ones, if you stick to it, are going to

grow. And now it's like, wow. Okay. So like my philosophies on training and my understanding of exercise and all this kind of stuff and mentality. people are actually interested. Like it wasn't just me shooting the ship with some friends and talking about how to get bigger guns and bigger lifts. And, you know, I think the biggest thing that's really helped me out is like, I've been brutally honest and raw

about what I believe in. And rather than trying to like change my message every once in a while to catch on to bandwidths of like new trends, I was like, no, that's stupid. Like when essential amino acids became the thing, I was like, did branch chain of amino acids still have massive value? And you can take it.

EA's, but like I still believe in this. And people would come after me and stuff. I was like, no, I'm not changing my formulas. Like I know this works. I've studied it. I've worked on it. And same exact thing with the training and same exact thing with the media and my version of like telling stories on podcasts. And it just worked out because then you start to build like a culture of fans that really love that. And they just love hearing it. And they want to keep on seeing that message and the ideology grow. And now it is what it is. What is your media team? Like what are you guys focus on?

our biggest thing was like originally the media team was to document what I was doing because I was like all these awesome efforts like going to high rocks world championships like three years ago it wasn't even filmed kind of thing like you know it was just like a tree falls in the woods and no one's around you're like how do we only reason why people are going to care because we tell them to care and we showed them to care and then eventually it went from that to me going out and studying and filming other sports and creating projects and then all of a sudden let's just say these guys right here uh legendary like they're like hey Hunter like we want you to come do a photo shoot for us and all this kind of stuff I was like

why don't you actually let my team and I create a campaign for you guys because like this is what we believe in you're trying to penetrate into this market anyways we know exactly how the clients are going to react to it and how to tell the story of it and rather than us going and you hiring a team or your team doing it we can do it our way because you already are asking me to work with you guys because you like my way so we started doing that and then we started going out and doing interviews with champion athletes or going into the field like in France and filming all these athletes in the mountains of UTMB and it's really become something where it's like next week I'll be training uh two weeks from now I'll be interviewing the guy who's going to be going for the one mile

world record and wear a fun suit and things like this ask it and it's not always podcast centric but it's more like the just sports culture and like a little bit beyond a little bit more fun and fringe conversations rather than also like doctor. documentation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like real life stuff. Like I just think that some of these conversations, like I don't want another, no offense to any of these podcasters, but like I just, I don't need another one of those Andrew Huberman podcast of just like this very monotone scientific thing. I was like, dude, tell me what it's like the night before your race when you're just sweating in. There's a girl in bed next to you who loves you and you can't even talk to

her because you're so fucking terrified that your competition has worked harder than you. It's like, what does that feel like? And like really dig in deep because I think that's a fast state of mind. And people won't ask that. And for me, I've lived it so many times. I'm so close to these people. And I think a lot of people to do these interviews have not been in that place. They don't even know to ask that question. And I know you've probably been in that place before, before powerlifting meat where you're just like drenched and sweat and your bed and you're like, you've got like a bag of Doritos next to your bed and you're like eating it, hoping you fall back asleep. We've been there. And it's a wild and brilliant story to tell. So I fall in love with it.

I think that I think that a podcasting will change over time and I think it will shift a little bit more into what you're talking about like It'd be cool to like see inside someone's home a little bit to see like just a little bit more on the person rather than Rather than just what someone wants to present to you yeah you know a little bit more on like you know the guy who's gonna you know Working on trying to break the mile record yeah Yeah, yeah what is he doing what shoes is he wear what socks is he you know what where does he live? How does he live? Is he live? Is he live? Is he live? You know, does they have a nice house? Does he have a big house? Does he live in an apartment?

Yeah. Does he have a nine to five, you know, type? Because it's like, you know, those are all huge factors. Yeah. Like I found out the other day through somebody that like there's these three amazing Norwegian triathletes and they travel around the world to go together to go compete. They don't have girlfriends. They don't socialize.

They're like in houses and sweatsuits biking in like the middle of the day for hours at a time. And like that is such a weird world. But he has 100 V-O-2 max, the highest ever record. and you want to know why and how. And I don't want to ask these surface level questions because in reality, like, it's just so boring. Like, if we could catch Mike Tyson just in the peak of his day in his house

just with a tiger, you know what I mean? So, like, that's really my big fascination now. Have you seen The Dark Wizard? No, what is that? The Dark Wizard is a documentary on a rock climber. And this guy's mindset is just, it's incredible. You really like it. I won't really mention too much about it, but Alex Honnold's in it.

You know, Alex Honnold's the guy that did the free solo and they're competitive against each other. And I think you would really enjoy it. But that might give you ideas too on like what it is you're trying to capture because those guys, they live a little bit like you were just mentioning. Like, you know, he's got a girlfriend and stuff. But like these other people have to live the life with you or they can't be part of it. Yeah. You know, and we see that in bodybuilding and stuff like that too. you know, the girlfriend of the, of the bodybuilder.

Nowadays, it's like usually both are in fitness. Yeah. So it's not as much of a thing, but it used to be like the dude would bodybuild and the girl was just always like around, you know, and the guy was like just sitting there eating chicken breast and broccoli 24-7 and the girl was just like kind of like in the background. Yeah.

Like not getting the love or attention that she needed probably. I mean, dude, if you look into the depths of my life throughout this entire time, it's been this like mussely Peter Pan existence. Like I have lived in homes with just pockets of like men that are slightly in an immature state, but extremely in this like enhanced vibration of insanity that allows us to push so hard. And like we're always, we're like it's almost like a mixture of jackass and extreme fitness. Like we have to continue to make bets against each other.

Like one time we were in Durango living in Colorado and we didn't want to drink that summer. But you have this, you need that extreme like dopamine ride. So what we did was we came up with this game that if I, found a bug and it was in my pocket and I played rocks paper shoot with you I could just walk up and play rock's paper shoot if I beat you you have to eat the bug otherwise I have to eat the bug and the game went from like grasshoppers like you know little bugs to like fucking coat can size animals like and it was crazy and I know it sounds like gross and ridiculous but it got us through the summer and it kept stakes so high that I won championships that I almost never should have because I was just

insanely deranged because you were eating bugs but like I just knew that if you came up to me there was no precedence whatsoever and you challenged me to something, I would come at you with every ounce of force whatsoever. I'm like, I'm going to fucking crush him with a rock right now. And you almost have to have that as competition because if I see you as a man who shows up in my competition, I have to let go of all sense of humanity and I have to make you a super villain.

I have to hate every single fiber of who you are in that moment in time and want to destroy you. And that seems like an entirely insanely detached way to think about things. but think about that rocks page or shoot like i need to beat you because the bug i have in my pocket is so disgusting i cannot eat it i can't stomach it and we're just yelling at each other cussing at each other and it was just this state of mind and i'm as crazy as it sounds i'm 37 years old right now and we still do the same thing you know we'll play bow and arrow in the backyard i'm like if i hit the target dude like you have to run around this whole neighborhood butt naked and like some

people are like, dude, you're fucking weird. I'm like, no, this is high stakes. There's no other way to live. We do it. And it's the reason why I'm still here. What was, what was broken skull ranch like? I mean, broken skull ranch to me, when I first did it, I thought was a total joke. Like, when they suggested it, like, I got offered American Gladiator recently, Titan Games. I was just like, I don't want to touch them because I don't believe they're going to hold the same, like, feeling about sport that I do. It was like, destroy. And when I had... saw Broken Skull Ranch, I was like, seems gimmicky. And then I finally took the gig and I showed up there and I immediately knew it was real. Like it was very weird. They would like sequester us in different

rooms and wouldn't allow us talk to each other. Like you could see through windows like, oh shit, there's one of them. And you catch him just for angles and stuff. You're like, oh, fuck, he's big. And then all of a sudden you get released. Like you start at like five in the morning and you're going through all these different rooms and checkups and stuff like that and getting miced up. and then you're immediately just brought into like the arena space and there's eight of us and then Stone Cold just drives up in this massive truck and gets out and he's like there's no there's no prepping whatsoever like Stone Cold's coming and you're like wait what and he just gets out of the car he's like all right everybody like you're going you're going in the ring now

and it was like really like that no prep whatsoever two men enter one man leave thunder dome kind of shit and you just watch like my friend who was a UFC fighter one of against another guy just before me. He, because it's so fucking hot in the desert, like 110, 115 degrees. And the sand is like skin melting hot. And these two guys, they take off their shirts to show their masculinity.

And my friend's a UFC fighter, like a fucking ripped, talented guy. He went into such cardiac shift that he was then hospitalized and they put ice bags all over his body and he was taken away in an ambulance because he was fighting with such intensity and ripping at each other.

like it just like imagine that in an air conditioned room in the UFC center versus now in the heat with no warm up anything and it was like that into the next round and then into the next round and then all of a sudden I got crowned the champion and I was like wait what and like I made $65,000 the first year and I was like holy shit I was like this is my new job I never knew if it was going to come back the next season because they wouldn't just like call me and check up like hey how you doing hunter it was like you get called two months beforehand they're like it's on and I started building these things in my backyard. Like I had a 180 pound dummy that was black hot leather and I would just fight in the hot

gravel driveway of my house and fight it and wrestle it and drag it around because I was like, this is the conditions I have to fight in. So much so that I learned and adapted to the point where near the end of the championships, like second and third season, I was wearing all tights because I didn't want the sun exposure or the exposure of touching my skin to the hot ground. and these guys are in short shorts to show their veins popping out and everything. And I show up and I probably look like an idiot.

And I'm just hiding out under a tree. They're standing out there in the sun with their chest out. Like I learned the systems. And I totally gamed it because I was there the longest. I got to understand the systems longer and longer. But eventually like it was such a job. And it was like truly like they started to bring me back into all star rounds where I had to fight people like blood all over the place. Just absolute savagery.

And it was like real real fun. lighting? No, but like I mean, dude, like if we are going to grapple with fucking chains tied to each other and I have to drag you to the other side of something, like you're getting slammed, you're getting your face is getting pushed into the, it's not a rubber mat, it's hard dirt with rocks in it. And you're getting grabbed around, dragged around, everything. You know, when you do the strength challenges, like they were not like wiping them down with water and stuff. Like you're now grabbing a hot black metal bar that's been sitting in the sun for the set for like six hours. They're like grab it. And they're like,

And then you recognize, you grab it, you're like, my hand is burning. You're like, I don't have time to think. I have to now charge because if I lose this, I lose the money. And it was just, it was wild. Like I joke around, like, people will be like, you don't know how to fight or anything. I was like, I've made more money than most UFC fighters doing full contact stuff. And I've done it through other sports too, but I'm not saying that I'm excellent, but I know how to game a system when I go into it.

You mentioned HRV a little bit. I just want to cover a little bit of that. So how are you using that to like manage your training and manage your volume and how long ago did you kind of like fall upon HRV type stuff? Yeah, so what's the deal with HRV? I started to find out about HRV probably maybe like five years ago. And like, you know, if you think about like whoop and these other devices, like they're trying to dig into the technology and the understanding of this kind of field. I started using Omega Wave, which is an HRV and nervous system tester back in 2017. So I've been using it for almost 10 years.

Now, I was a little bit rambunctious and I didn't like it. And I started to catch onto the trends. So I ditched it for a while. But then as I started to shift sports and like focuses and different stimuluses, I had to keep on bringing it back in to learn new trends. Now, one thing that people need to recognize is that don't listen to the numbers, listen to the trends. So like, people are like, oh, I have the HRV scores. this or like everyone's like, whoa, that's so crazy dude. And it's like, it doesn't matter. Like,

if you have a six inch dick, that's all you got. It's like, you know, you got to learn to make magic with it. But the thing is, is like, you now need to learn your body and then use it. Like, it's got to be a skill. Like, remember all those action games back in the day? It's like, this one's got strength. This one's got speed. So you learn how to make these adaptations and start to change your body towards the adaptations and the stimuluses to make it as a as possible when the body's primed. And like back in Mike Mensler, it's like he talked about these massive adaptations and the stronger and fitter you get. You're actually going to need more time to recover from it because the hammer just keeps on getting bigger and bigger and bigger and

it leaves a bigger and bigger dent. And we don't want to listen to that. We're like, I train on Tuesday bench every single Tuesday. It's like, well, that's not the truth anymore. We're actually finding out that you may need actually more than 72 hours to recover, whereas this guy can train every two days. You're training every day. You're training every four days. And that's just the reality of the situation. You can't avoid it. You're different. I have been most recently for the past two months, been using a formula that Coach Cal does within his training app. He has different versions of triangulations, of systems, and it's a heart rate strap. I think everybody who's watching this right now, the variability is that come from

wrist monitors is so, it's so much lower of a grade of information that I just am telling you guys, it's a lower grade of information. If you want to live in that standard, that's your choice. If you want to live in the standard where even Omega Wave has a heart rate strap and then has a sensor that goes to your hand and your forehead to pick up electrical signals going out and have it like three-part reference point, that's an even higher standard. I don't think that's the necessary one, but it's the truth. And if you're going to be the most excellent version of yourself, wouldn't you want the highest standard? Wouldn't you want to have like the triple filtered vodka if you're really going to get drunk that night. So for me, I recognize that the numbers don't lie

and I let my ego go and I was like, I'm going to just follow this plan. And I will tell you right now, when I hit, there's an earthquake behind it. Like, it's fucking powerful. But I wasn't hitting with that kind of power when I was avoiding the numbers and the truth of it all. And I think it's almost even more important than quality sleep because quality sleep is, oh, I slept like eight hours. Then all of a sudden you recognize you're like, well, you're up and down and all that kind of stuff. If this number is the trend you look at every single morning, it's going to tell you the truth. You don't need to look at an eight hour window.

Look at the window that you woke up with. And it's like, this is just the undeniable factor of if you're ready or not. When your HRV is higher for you when it's trending in the right direction, does that mean you get to kind of go full throttle in your workout? Yeah. And it's pretty crazy. Like we've tracked it. And he has this really interesting trajectory line that shows the actual pitch. of your body's adaptation, which is unlike these other ones.

And it's really cool. Like I can actually see like when I first started with him, my pitch was like this and then we started to correct it and it was like this. And then all of a sudden it's like this. Now it's starting to go into like a vertical line of progress. And I'm like, whoa. And I can feel it though.

Like I can also say it's like, okay, I know that like this used to be my benchmark. What is it gonna happen now? And it says my body's ready to go and I go for it. And I'm like, dude, that's a two and a half minute PR on a 50 minute test. Like that's significant. And, you know, after doing it this many years, I just recognize I was like, yeah, maybe my body is not like muscle fibers are getting more dense and my VO2 max is going up. It's like I'm actually just using everything that's in the tank rather than having a governor

on it because my body's too tired. I think it's a really excellent way to put it because for a lot of people that are exercising that are hitting the gym, it's like, what are they really, are they going to get bigger? You know, other muscles are going to get bigger. Like you've been training for a long time. You're 40 years old. Your muscles aren't going to necessarily get bigger out of nowhere for no reason. Are you getting stronger?

Are you getting leaner? It's kind of tough to do if you're not, if you don't have any measure of anything. You're not like actually, you know, paying attention to the numbers of that. But I think with what you do because there's more, you guys do a lot of different exercises. Yeah. You do a lot of different things. And so there's, there's more tangible things to, like, go after. But if somebody is trying to get bigger and leaner and trying to get in better shape,

if they're checking their HRV or they have ways of testing themselves to where they can see if they're overtrained or undertrained or not in good enough shape or these various things, they'll have one more metrics that they could utilize to get them in the shape that they want to be in. Because, again, the likelihood of you just getting bigger or stronger doing your same old normal three sets of 12 is very unlikely. But if you know what's going on inside your system and you know the different things that are going on, you could probably hit yourself with different training stimulus, different training stimulus in accordance to the feedback that you're getting. Yeah. I think one thing that's really interesting that took me a long time to understand also is

like the world is like so pushing these like, get your blood tested, do this, do that. I think a lot of people misunderstand is like that information is massively skewed because if you don't do everything in like a very perfect like, environment, it's going to be skewed. So like if you exercise really hard, you're like creatine kinesis scores are going to be through the roof, your testosterone might be dumped and that might not be a reality at all. But no one's telling the truth about that. So that's why I was saying it's like you have to try to try to look at trends within yourself and try to continue to recreate systems over and over again because you're probably never going to do the exact thing you're supposed to unless you're

told and taught by like a real expert rather than a salesman that's just trying to get you into a here's a $1,500 package to get your testosterone checked and we're going to optimize. you. It's like that person was trained in sales, not in actual professionalism in this category. So that's why like I spend so much time kind of looking information and what people are pushing on the internet. And then I try to dig lower and feel like, where's the truth here? And it's very complicated. So like I think anybody who's listening to this is like just try to follow your own trends and always recreate the environment that you're doing over and over again and look for that trend. And that's the only answer you can really follow.

Do you feel like you've had to give up a lot of your Do you feel like you've had to give up a lot of like normal life activity to do some of the things that you've done? Totally. I struggle to be in relationships, not in the way that I don't have like empathy or I don't care or I don't fall in love. I struggle to be out of my comfort zone. Like I wasn't able to go home for the holidays this last year because I had a championship in Australia. And I was like, if I go home for Thanksgiving, the likelihood that I'll lose my my zone. is too high and then I'll have to go from here to New York, then to Australia. And then like, what's the point of coming back from Australia and trying to like go jam something in with my family when I have another competition in another four weeks? So these things like they have to

just go to the wayside and you're like hoping and praying that like people around you understand the reason behind it because like no one will understand your level of care the way that you do. And it's like this has nothing to do with the fact that I don't love you. I love you guys so much that I want to do my best for myself so that you can see the best version of me every time you see me. And that's like a weird thing for people to accept. So I don't feel like I've lost anything, but I think it would be a massive mistake if I went through this whole thing and didn't try to relay the information to the next generation. And I think the next generation, sadly, is just getting like massively soft. Like there's the level of like accountability and sometimes like taking

the high road has been lost. Like the stoic mindset and the approach to these things. And things of just the warrior concepts and like the pursuit of excellence has been lost because it's been muddied up in the water of just trying to be complacent for everything to fit into your life where it's like if you think about the shape of an arrow or in a bullet it's very very narrow so that it can go as far and fast as possible it can't be like you know a handholding experience it can't be and in reality like that sounds sad to many but i was like there's nothing more beautiful than that samurai's death of just like giving everything you have in the pursuit of your ultimate goal.

Do you sometimes, you know, I don't know, see somebody with a significant other. Maybe they have a kid or something like that too. And you're kind of like, man, am I letting some of this pass me by? You know, you're only 37. I still think that's pretty young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like it. Yeah, it's not like you missed all your opportunities.

But do you sometimes look at that and go like, I need to start heading in that direction? Like, do you feel that pull? It's in my head and I'm having those conversations. and reality is like I just don't want to, I believe in chapters and like I'm still in my warrior chapter and I have to like live this life this way. Otherwise I will start to focus on the next chapter and it's like by rip pages out of your book to skip to the chapter a little bit faster. And it's not in a way that like I look down on any of those people. I appreciate it. Like my greatest mentor, Hobie Call and in the sport of obstacle course racing, probably the greatest

to ever do it. He had five kids and he had a great relationship and all of his kids respected him, but he was very good at doing it. Like, he was such an excellent man at juggling those things. I'm not. And I've come to that, like, reality and I accept it. And I don't think, like, the people who are in my circle are upset with me for it. And I'm not upset with me for it. So, you know, I look at those people. I respect them. But, like, I just know that this is my path. And, like, I understand that there's some people that have tried to do both and have massively crashed because of it. And I'm just like, best not to. Have you seen people be excellent in endurance sports and not be fucked up?

Physically or mentally? Mentally. Like is there something missing or something going on upstairs that maybe people don't understand or? I think God, this may sound like a weird conversation, is the only thing that has ever like really balanced out the people that I respect the most in endurance sports. Because I think when you're willing to let go of the obsession with self and more obsessed with the opportunity that's been given to you by a higher power,

it removes this ego identity, where it's like, I'm giving everything I have because of the opportunity God gave me. And it's like a arms wide open approach, where it's like clenched fists in the mindset of the ego people that where they're almost like running from something and trying to like protect something and all this kind of stuff. And it's me, me, me, I, I, I, and I.

And I know that sounds weird. And like the more I stuff, study God and the more I research philosophy, like I recognize that there is a very, very intense tie to letting go of fear once you fully understand God's love, if that makes sense. And those are the only people I think that are safe from it. I hate to say it. I'm even one of those people. I'm not safe from it. I try to find a better attachment or love with a higher power and I have it sometimes. And then any time I catch myself in this like rotating turbulent mindset of like protecting my story and who I am like I'm like whoa you understand you

understand why I bring that up right because endurance sports you're like you're kind of killing yourself oh yeah you know you go out and do this activity and it's difficult and then you know you get used to it but there's like levels to it and you keep making it harder and harder and you're yeah yeah you're sort of and killing yourself as maybe negative as that sometimes may sound you you're also like killing off some things about yourself that you don't necessarily love. And you could be getting rid of some things from the past or some things that you are better off without. But you are kind of killing yourself when you go out there doing these things with your heart rate at like 180 or something like that. Well, I mean, I don't think it's necessarily

toxic, but it is something to be witnessed and paid attention to. Like Dean Carnass is a guy I think I look up to. He wrote a lot of great books. I don't know if you know about him. But like his like inception moment to start running as he was like out one night drinking and he almost like kind of faltered with a woman when he was in a relationship and I paraphrasing this I don't have all the details I can't remember but I read his book and he just started running I think he like ran across like the San Francisco bridge like 20 something miles in the middle of the night kind of thing and I think he was just running from that that thing that was maybe in him that he was scared of like I don't want to be that person I don't want that part of my life and then you look at somebody like David Goggins like

the whole start of his book is like the pain that he went through in his family and he's like running away from this idea that he's a weak boy and people thought he was weak and all that kind of stuff. It's like, you could see it if you just read through the pages rather than be like, oh, this is so inspiring. It's like, well, who is the inspiring person? Why are they inspiring? And, you know, I don't think it's necessarily destructive, but it's like one thing I know pay attention a lot is like, we all have loops. It's like, you know that people when they get lost in the woods, they usually make a circle. It's like, we're all lost in the woods. We tend to, maybe the circle's getting a little bit bigger, but like we're coming back around to the same thing again inevitably.

And it's like if you can't break the trend, the next thing you know, you become just an idiot doing the same thing over and over again in insanity, expecting a different result. It's like the loop might get bigger, but you don't recognize that it's coming right back to center again. So you try to break those kind of loops. And you're like, fuck, I'm in it. I'm addicted. And like, how do I get out? So I don't know.

It's one of these kind of things where I study myself constantly to create opportunities. to be stronger, but then every time I look at myself as stronger, I see more weakness. And I'm like, oh, no. So it's weird. You're going to write a book? I've been on it. I've been on it. Good. Wednesday mornings. Every Wednesday you work on writing? Yeah, I mean, I've been writing the book for years, but then all of a sudden as I got deeper into understanding myself, I was like, I don't necessarily want to put out false truths. So I started to go into a deeper relation of studying myself and understanding why I might be doing these things so that people don't fall into the same path. And then I picked it up again more recently and I've had a friend of mine who's wrote many books

helped me start to guide it and put it together because it's very different to tell a story than to write a story. Because like if you notice that like we've had no linear kind of conversation right now, we're about like HRV. What do you think about milk? Like, you know, we're just like bopping around. And then all of a sudden you tell a story, you can't do that really. It's like Hunter S. Thompson kind of shit is fucking crazy. But yeah, I'm working on it. Very cool. What's coming up next for you? You have a competition in a couple weeks. You said, right? World championships five or six weeks away. These last four weeks are just like everything. It's like, you know, I think a really good book is about Hicks and Gracie, breathe. If you ever want to read that book and you listen to him

when he was training for his big championships. Like you can get a very deep understanding what a true champion has to do in the last days before prep. A lot of it's going to be. A lot of it's going to be up in the mountain just like shaving off maybe mental weight rather than physical weight and just like finding ways to pull seconds away effortlessly rather than physically. And you have to still do the work, but like you have to put yourself into the state of mind. And then I will go up there and I will do that and I will let go of everything else in the world. Like I'm actually really lucky that you reached out to me and we got this in now because I will disappear into the weeds after this. Like when they get here next week

and this is my last real week of work and then everything goes away until worlds. Awesome. Thank you for being on the show today. And where can people find you and follow along with your podcast and everything? I think the most exciting thing I'm doing right now is definitely just like the here to party sports stuff. I love it. I love just studying sports and talking shit, having fun with the fans. Hunter McIntyre on any social media platform. We have some pretty interesting things going on.

And if you guys want to pursue what I'm doing outside of sport, like that will all be coming a lot more in the fall. We've been building it out. So I'm excited about that. But mostly just type in Hunter McIntyre. mind it. Guys, you know, if you just type in Hunter McIntyre on YouTube and then type in whatever else you want to hear him talk about because there's so much information out there. I did want to ask you like a lot of nutrition questions and stuff like that, but we'll save it for another show. But you already have that information out there because I've watched a bunch of your podcast

and you do a great job like detailing that. And also I'll say that your podcasting, your podcast show is really cool because it's an actual like show. I like how you're talking to whoever else is on your show and you're kind of like, hey, what do you want to talk about next? But the two or three things you wanted to talk about next were like way different from each other. So I was like, oh, this is really cool because you were talking about topics that weren't just, you know, you talking just about endurance and just about performance. There was other things in there too. Oh, I'm obsessed, dude.

It's an honor to work with you again. Thank you again. After all these years, it's great to be back. Appreciate it. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.