Mark Bell's Power Project - Joe Sullivan & Brianny Terry On World Records, Coaching & Chasing 700lbs

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

Joe Sullivan and Brianny Terry join Mark Bell and Nsima Inyang to talk about how they met through powerlifting, Brianny’s insane rise from bodybuilding stage lean to breaking all-time world records, the brutal reality of weight cuts, and why the fitness industry is full of noise, bad coaching, and overcomplicated advice.Follow Joe:@joesullivan_aodYouTube @joesullivanaodFollow Brianny:@briannytYouTube  @BriannyTerry  Special perks for our listeners below!🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWER to save 20% off site wide, or code POWERPROJECT to save an additional 5% off your Build a Box Subscription!🩸 Get your BLOODWORK/TRT/PEPTIDES! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com and use code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off Self-Service Labs and Guided Optimization®.🧠 Methylene Blue: Better Focus, Sleep and Mood 🧠 Use Code POWER10 for 10% off!➢https://troscriptions.com?utm_source=affiliate&ut-m_medium=podcast&ut-m_campaign=MarkBel-I_podcastBest 5 Finger Barefoot Shoes! 👟 ➢ https://Peluva.com/PowerProject Code POWERPROJECT15 to save 15% off Peluva Shoes!Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM?si=JZN09-FakTjoJuaW🚨 The Best Red Light Therapy Devices and Blue Blocking Glasses On The Market! 😎➢https://emr-tek.com/Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!👟 BEST LOOKING AND FUNCTIONING BAREFOOT SHOES 🦶➢https://vivobarefoot.com/powerproject🥶 The Best Cold Plunge Money Can Buy 🥶 ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast➢ https://www.PowerProject.live➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerprojectFOLLOW Mark Bell➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybellFollow Nsima Inyang➢ Ropes and equipment : https://thestrongerhuman.store➢ Community & Courses: https://www.skool.com/thestrongerhuman➢ YouTube : https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=e#PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

How are she going in and like breaking all-time world records? And then you're a pro in bodybuilding as well, right? Yeah. It's the special combination of incredible genetics and the most hardworkingest and self-believing individual I've ever seen. In July of 2003, she got her women's physique pro card. The four weeks leading to that, literally I would have three meals of chicken and cashews, then one meal of 50 grams of carbs and then go train.

And then 13 weeks later, she broke the all-time, all-time world record. It's also be real. No one's ever done that. No, I fully believe that I'm capable of deadlifting 700 pounds. I don't care who you are. I don't care what your argument is. This is the greatest moment in modern day power lifting. How do you go from a 350 pound deadlift to a 650 pound deadlift?

Steroids. The first DM that I ever sent her was like, hey, you're that super strong deadlift chick. A lot of people that are trying to decide what's the best way instead of just acting. It's like stop thinking so much and just do and you'd probably be a lot further along than if you just took X amount of deciding what's the best, and I hate the word optimal because optimal for me is way different from you or you or you depending on your work schedule, your life stress. You ever just look at her and just be like, she's fucking weird. Yeah, no, 100%.

And you're the same. You just look at him. She farted this morning and I was like really, really into your feminine energy this morning, aren't you? That's a great sign. I got to do what I got to do. It's a normal bodily function. I know, I know. Girls fart too.

He's just shaming me. No, no. I love it. I love it. I love your farts. Uh-oh. This is going to be a different show. I love when somebody says, like, that somebody else doesn't let them do something.

I think that's funny. I know. Like, he won't let you put on the heat. She's going to start. But I know that he, I know that he, like, he might not say anything, but he probably goes that SpongeBob eye thing. You know, SpongeBob's eye like tweaks like that? He probably looks at you like that if you touch the heater. It's like he'll be in his office.

And I'm not going to lie. The insulation, the office. upstairs, it gets really hot up there. So I'll turn on the heat because I'm downstairs because it's cold as shit downstairs and I'll come down after a call and he's like sweating. He's like, it's so fucking hot. So it's like, I don't want to hear that shit.

So I just deal with it. Or is it because you're a lifter and like, you know, some other stuff that might be in your system are making you run warm. It's both. It's both. It's both. But that office, that backside of our house is facing like east.

So as, or west. So as the sun sets, it's like beaming directly into it. And I'm doing all my calls in the afternoon. And I'm just dripping sweat. Well, Andy wanted the walls black. So it's also just content. Baby,

I'm shooting shit. Insulating. Yeah, it's like a furnace in there. How great is that? You're talking to your health coach and he's just pouring with sweat. No,

I know. It's ridiculous, dude. He's like, don't mind me. I swear I'm not. I am in Nevada, but you are inside, though. I know.

I know. Believe me. But we're doing. We're doing doing what we can. How did you guys meet? Oh, dude. This is such a funny. You lead lead.

It's a hilarious story. The whole series. Actually, the 2020 canceled Arnold. So I was supposed to lift in the animal cage that year. That was my first year. I was so excited. And then I literally land in Ohio and they're like, hey, whole shit's canceled. I'm like, fuck.

And this was the second year I was supposed to lift in the animal cage because in 2019, I squatted 937 pounds in there. They're like, oh, we want. want you to come back. And I have at that time, I owned a gym called Pinnacle Performance. This was as the COVID pandemic was happening. So if you guys recall, the expo got shut down the Wednesday, like you flew in on Wednesday. Yeah. I think it got canceled that same day. Yeah. So at that point, everybody was thinking, okay, this is just going to be a quick thing. Two weeks, stop the spread, whatever the rhetoric was, it's just going to be a little thing. And then we're going to figure it out.

So me being quick thinking and also opportunistic because I'm like, this is going to be cool. I start calling everybody. I call animal and I'm like, hey, I have 5,000 square feet. Let's just push all my stuff to the side. I'm 10 minutes from the Expo Center. Let's just do an event here. Let's make it happen. And they're like, hell yeah, let's do it.

So I start calling people. I think the first DM that I ever sent her was like, hey, you're that super strong deadlift chick. Come deadlift at my gym if you're in town. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, cool. So we did it. And Joe and I met for the first time. We actually had the same coach at the same time. And I remember I did my whole thing. He lifted, did his thing. And then it was after all of the events, we were just like hanging out, talking shit. I think we were like both drunk at some. We were, no, this is what was super funny. No, dude. Because this time it was, it was all potom. There was no romance. It wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, like like, hey, look at her. I was just. I was just. just having a good time. She was just having a good time. We were deadlifting on, it was the mammoth deadlift bar. And I remember we had this little exchange where it was just like kind of snarky with one another. And I was like, I kind of like her. She's kind of an asshole. I dig this. Because I was like, do you want a deadlift here? And she looked at me and she was like, do you want

a deadlift here? And I'm like, I don't know. Like you got, okay, come on. And we went back and forth, started training. And we're literally, and this is, this is not representative of health and wellness. This is a different phase of Joe Sullivan and Briani Terry. But we were a couple beers deep. We also had some halo testing. And we were like, I was like, I'm going to take some halo. And you want some halo? She's like, I don't know. You want to take some halo? And I'm like, yeah, let's take some halo. Okay. Yeah. And I'm like, I love her, dude. She's awesome. This is cool. I remember I lifted her off and I was like following behind her because she's like, I'm going to hit 275 on bench for a double. And I'm like, what the fuck? Who the fuck is this? And I'm walking

behind her and I'm like, why her laxer out here? And it's like, I'm not as big as this. What is what's going on? And then she just smokes it. And it was just like friendly banter and just a whole bunch of banter. She's like, it's your turn to bench and you're like, yeah, you know, I know, this weird click. Yeah. Months later, because we still have the same coach at the same time. I, my squat was just dog shit. I'm not built to squat. I have a was. Hey, it's better now. It is. What was dog shit? Like, what was the number?

Uh, I, what was I squatting at that time? It wasn't, it wasn't dog shit, but she has in her mind, yes. I don't even know if I was squatting five at that time. No, you, your best was like, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like, it was like maybe like four 70 or something. Yeah. Yeah. It was terrible, you know, like top one percent. But, well, yeah, if I'm looking at That powerlifting rankings? I'm like, yeah, I'm dog shit. Because I'm short torso, long femur. I'm only built to pick shit up.

I'm not meant to bend my knees and go back up. But he, did you just hit your first all-time world record? In 2020, yeah. In 2020, yeah. So this is like a month after the showdown. I was like, dude, my coach wasn't responding to me. I was like having a mental breakdown in the middle of my session. So I'm like, hey, Joe's my friend.

He's like the best pound for pounds squadron in the world. Let me ask him. So then he gives me all of this. advice, whatever, we start talking and then just like never stop talking. And I will let you know when I knew I had her because one, she slid into my DMs. Hey now. There we go. Yeah. It was about squatting. Yes. But the issue that you were having was controlling your pelvic position. And I slid a little joke in where I was like, you know, it's like, It's a, it's a, you start, you, you, the door is slightly open and you're like, I'm going to see if I can creak this a little bit more.

And she, she responded to the joke and I was like, ha, ha, ha, yes, we're in. Let's do it. And then, yeah, we just never stopped talking. And then our first date was him taking me home to his Thanksgiving. Your first date? Because this was, this was, this is COVID time. This was COVID and the pandemic. We were fast track and everything.

That's real. And we, this is post-divorce, Joe. I was single for a year and a half. I'm like, I ain't got time for none of this. If you're down, I'm down, screw it. But I was like just having a good time. And then he just introduced me to his entire family as his girlfriend. I did.

Without talking to her. Okay. Yeah. You both are five a bit, so that's good. And that was after or no, immediately before my dad shot the floor in front of us. Oh, yeah, my first time meeting him. I thought I was done like in get out. Yeah, that sounds like, well, context.

Is there good context for this? There's no good context. It's horrible firearms handling. It's just a hilarious story because he got, I don't even remember what the pistol was, but a friend of him gave him a gun. And he's like, I'm going to give this to Joe because I don't need a gun.

Like, you can have a gun. And it's one of those, the safety mechanism. You have to half cock the hammer and half pull the trigger. And he's like, here I want to show you. Bang! Just as we walk in it.

Oh, fuck. And I'm like, what are you doing, dude? This is like within 10 minutes of this being in your house. And that was the second time. that he accidentally did that because he almost blew his head off up at Deer Camp when he first got the pistol.

He's like, oh, okay, I know how you did. Bang! And shot the freaking stove. Well, he's on the phone with you. Yes, and I thought he killed himself. I was like, Dad! Oh, God. So I don't have that gun. We don't have that gun anymore.

We sold it because it's cursed. Yeah. But it was, it's just a hilarious series of events because I didn't, I did not, we did not have the, the DTR to find the relationship talk. Yeah. It was just like, We're having a good time.

I'm having a good time. I'm just, fuck it. Like, this is my girlfriend. Because I didn't know what to call you. It's like, this is the chick that I'm hanging out with and,

and like bringing home. But like what? So it's just like, this is, this is the new one. And then after that, I went to his, I went to Ohio and stayed with him for the last like four weeks.

I was preparing for the hybrid showdown. And so we did that together within like, I don't know, two months of like seriously dating. And then two months after that, I was like, hey, I'm moving to Vegas. I fucking hate Ohio. I'm not moving there.

So we can figure this out. Because like either way I'm going. And then he just ended up following me out there. And we've been in Vegas ever since. Because I was getting, I was getting out of the gym. And I was like, I don't, I don't have any reason to leave Columbus, but I don't really have any reason to stay here. And I'm kind of, I was kind of like the big fish in the little pond at that point. Because I was the, I was like big time, big deal in Columbus.

And I was just, I don't, I don't want to be here. you know, I really like her. I think this is cool. I've never clicked with someone like this. And it was just, I have friends in Vegas. So fuck it, you know. And here we are. Joe, from your perspective as a coach and someone that's done powerlifting and bodybuilding,

like, what's the deal with her? How are she going in and like breaking all time world records? And then you're a pro in bodybuilding as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, fourth place at your pro debut. Yeah. Yeah.

beat two Olympians at her first professional physique physique. physique. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the special combination of incredible genetics and incredible, like,

foundation, but also the most hardworkingest and self-believing individual I've ever seen. Like, she is, for better or worse, the Michael Jordan mentality of everybody else, because we've had that, we've said this phrase and it's offensive.

you're a competitor, but if you get it, you get it. When you go into a powerlifting competition, she's not looking to be anybody else. You're in a relevant circumstance. I'm like looking at my competitors as my rest time. She's literally said it like every, you all are here as the intermission. Like you're just here to let me take a break. Yeah. You know, and and it's just that combination because I've seen, dude, I've seen you. I still remember your first bodybuilding prep where you were suffering. And it was not like, the coaching back then was more old school, more just nose to the grindstone, like just die, die, die, die, die. And I remember you getting your last hour of cardio in at 9 p.m. at night

singing along to some songs and like just getting it done after having a full day of work and just waking up the next day and doing it again. It's just the relentless effort paired with self-belief paired with the fact that your dad is six foot four, 250 pounds, Ben's breast is 400 pounds. her mom like you could pull her mom up like she's gonna do a physique competition in the next like two years it's incredible yeah like she's got we and her family her family unit is uh they're all in Vegas they're they're located you could what's your mom's instagram just i think it's private i'd have to like bring up pictures of her yeah but yeah but but yeah she like because her her family like her mom and dad all train at the dragons layer yeah uh i coach her dad she coaches her mom and it's just you've got

you've got an incredible foundation and you're You're also a freaking psychopath, so it's a good combo. When did the psychopathy start? Oh, God. You're not truly a psychopath. I'm just like, like, this mentality, I feel like for someone to have that, that just happened to night, like with a sport. Like you, when did that begin for you?

Well, I mean, I've always, like, I haven't been, I didn't do competitive. Well, I did competitive sports, I guess, in like, middle school and high school, but it was like volleyball. And once I was pretty good at volleyball, then I kind of gotten to high school. high school started smoking weed started doing bad shit and I was like I don't none of this is fun so I started lifting weights to my dad and I had done that when you started lifting uh probably like 13 14 but I remember being like 10 years old and my dad taking me to like boot camp classes of the ymca and shit and just killing me like it was insane um but I lost interest in volleyball and my dad started going to

crossfit and I was like what is this so I started going to crossfit from like I think it was like almost 16. I did that for like three years. And I would always stay after to lift weights. Like I didn't know that power lifting was even a sport at that point, but I would always stay after. And I was good at the wads, barbell cycling. I would kill anything with running. I would be like, fuck this. This is not fun. Okay. And I remember doing the CrossFit Open one year. And it was like a workout of like snatches and toes to bar. And I had like my shoulder head came out of its sock, but I was still going. But I just remember being like, people are yelling at me and I'm dying. I fucking hate this like this is awful uh then i remember i got hurt and i started going to a regular

gym and one of my friends was like hey you're really strong you should do power lifting i was like what what's power lifting i was like oh you can just do squat bench and deadlift like i don't have to do snatches and all of this shit and uh i remember i wasn't fully sold on it but i just went and did a power lifting competition i had like five weeks to prefer it i was in mexico like the week before i didn't care getting hammered oh yeah but i felt great I came back because I was like I still deadlifted 400 no I think I only deadlifted like 3 50 or something so bad so terrible it's not a lifetime girl for some people yeah yeah yeah I told like 860 my first meet but once I got off the platform I was like holy shit like I'm having a lot of fun with this

and I was always like pretty competitive like I wouldn't say I was like the dog that I am now but I think once I started to really figure out that I could get really fucking good and like I I created like an Instagram account. I could see like other girls who were lifting and things like this and so on and so forth. And I remember I was really close to the deadlift all-time world record. And I was still Natty and I was like, oh, I could like actually make something on myself. So then I started going to like bigger meets. And then my first pro meet was the 2019 Kern US Open.

And I'd beaten the deadlift record. Like I hit all-time world record. It was Christy Hawkins at the time and she was the head judge for it. So it was like a crazy full circle moment. She's still incredibly strong. It's nuts. She's a cyborg. Yeah, she's not real.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's awesome. But I think that was the moment. That was like a really pivotal moment of like, holy shit, I could actually be something within the sport. I'm going to go all in. So that's kind of like the where it kind of began as 2019. When you see on Instagram, when you see these other girls, you know, perhaps breaking some of your records, right? Yeah.

Like what happens? So you like start yelling at it. Joe, like I got to get back on the platform kind of thing or? No, not really. I, does it make me, it makes me kind of like sad because I'm not currently in power lifting right now, but at the same time, it's like records are meant to be broken. Yes, it's awesome to be all time, the strongest or whatever, but it's like how am I, I mean, I've intrinsically motivated, you know, to a point, but it's like, it's nice to have somebody who's

also on that level that I can just be over and over and over again, like, okay, my record was just broken the all time all time by Sam Rice because I had previously held it at 645 and now it's 655 and so it's like that's just another goal for me to just be like fuck you I can be better I'm gonna go do it are you going to at some point you think yeah I fully believe that I'm capable of deadlifting 700 pounds and that's like still a goal and I mean I'm 29 years old you know I the Christie is 43 44 so it's like I do still have a lot of time and yeah I'd like to take my time and get there as healthy as possible rather than just kicking myself

into the dirt over and over again possibly not even making it there. Has a woman done 700? I think maybe a strongman event. Strong man, yeah. Lucy Underdown, she holds it at 725, I believe, but she's doing it. She doesn't do it with a suit.

But she uses straps. Yeah, yeah. But still, it's like Lucy's insane. Like she's an incredible, incredible athlete. Yeah. And Lucy is just crazy because she works a full-time job. She's a cop in Manchester.

U.K., I think. And it's like, can you imagine that pulling up on like, just some type of dispute being like, what the hell? Yeah, we were there live for this. Yeah, that was the giant. 720? Something like that. Either like 717 or 7.20.

325 kilos is like, I don't know. I can't count kilos. It's been forever. I still can't. I think that's 727. I don't know. But yeah, crazy. Regardless, it's nuts.

And then where are your other lifts at? My best squat and sleeves is 534 and best in wraps is 589 I think and my best bench is 330 so yeah question do you think well actually before we even get to that when did the physique competition stuff start and I believe you broke that record already after becoming a prone physique right yeah yeah so or no I yes yes Yeah, I forget. Dude, I've done so much shit. It's hard to watch.

No, this, dude, no, it's this. No, I do because this is like, because this is, this is, this is, like, I said this on a different podcast, but it's like I've been able, through her and this is totally like vicariously living and selfish on my perspective. But it's like I've been able to live out two separate iterations of glory days because I had my glory and then to see you do this because the series of events was the craziest sequence I could ever imagine because in August, no, in July of 2003, she got her women's physique pro card at USA's in Las Vegas. And then 13 weeks later, she broke the all-time, all-time world

record at the American Pro 2. Yeah. And then- Let's also be real. No one's ever done that before. No, no, no. Absolutely not. That's kind of fucking crazy. That's literally nuts. Like that was the crazy. I get goosebumps thinking about it. And like if if you want to pull that up, because it's like, you'd have to search for it, but it's like the, the live stream. American Pro 2.2. Day 3 or whatever. But it's like, but it's a whole live stream. But that whole thing, because it was like, it's in like auditorium seating. My parents were there. Her parents were there. Like she is the last deadlift. I was literally in the back like jockeying for position where you can put in different attempts and we mother fucked another lifter because I faked him out. I, yeah, I,

I faked them out super hard and it's like it sucks that it happened to him. But it was like that was a day of competition. That was also the worst fucking weight cut I've ever done in my life. I cut 23 pounds for that shit. Full body cramping. I had to literally like fireman carry her out. This was a post too much on the internet. This was 13 weeks after you got your.

So you the thing is that I think the wild thing here is you are already stage lean which physically sucks. Oh, he sucks. Within three months, you break a record that requires like you need to be physically, you need to feel physically good. Which I don't see how. Most people would need more time post stage to get ready for something like that. Which I don't even see how I did that because literally four weeks from that competition, I, like my diet was fucking insane.

The only carbs I had was 50 grams of carbs pre-training. Because I was like trying to cut down weight so much. Oh, there it is. No. You raised $6,000. Next, the next one. To the right. Yeah, this is it.

This is the greatest moment in modern powerlifting. The heaviest pull I've ever done in my life. It lasted like 10 fucking seconds. I don't care who you are. I don't care who you are. I don't care what your argument is. This is the greatest moment in modern day powerlifting. Because it was just best of the best females against them.

And she comes out last pull. Everybody's freaking out. Damn. Dude, it is awful. going still going there and then the moments after the moments after are what's amazing that's her dad yo we all frouder just incredible because like dude it's like her parents are gonna cry i cry with this i can't watch this video it's beautiful it's beautiful that's her mom and dad like my parents are right next to them like we come oh my god i'm i can't watch

this video. Did you cry so much? I'm so soft. I love you. This is amazing. But that was just the most insane like flight of lifting because it was literally three girls going back to back not just for like the all time world record in a specific weight class but like

ever in power lifting. And it was because it was Denise Herber and Sam Rice both and the one that I faked out was Denise her husband Nico because in power lifting you can do like the jockeying for position like change your deadlift. And I like went higher than they were. They matched me and then I

undercut them. So Denise missed. Sam ended up hitting it. And then me being like way too long in powerlifting. I knew that whoever had the low with an all time world record, whoever had the lowest body weight, they would be awarded that. So I, Sam was a 181. That was one. Yeah. And she was 165. So then ended up matching that, getting the record. And it was just the craziest sequence of events. It was incredible. It was so, so cool. And just like, dude. Like,

it's a great choice for the number, too, because, like, with the way that Deadlift went. I know. Yeah, you got to be exact. Yeah. So that was cool. But, yeah, you cut, you cut from like 180 something. 188 to 165. Yeah.

Yeah, dude. And it was a whole ordeal. That's what I'm saying. Like the four weeks leading to that, literally I would have, like, three meals of chicken and cashews, then one meal of 50 grams of carbs, then go train. Tell us about the cut a little bit. So is that, I mean, it doesn't have to be precise because I know, you know, like, long-winded, but like, it's, well, just, it was very much, like, moderating the nutrition in that way,

which is not good for you, but it's the shotgun approach. It's like, get, get it done no matter what. Got her in close enough position to actually water cut. And then we always would always get. a personal tent sauna where it's like you literally sit in a little lawn chair and your head sticks out just so we could sweat as much as possible. That's the best way to do it. Yeah, but it's it still sucks no matter what because there's still I still have photos on my phone of like me holding an ice like a bag of ice on top of her head because she's like feeling like she's going to

pass out while she's sitting in that that like it was the hardest cut ever because we ended up thinking that she was on weight because with weigh-ins, they're 24 hours. hours ahead of time at maximum. So they're scheduled for like 3 p.m. the day before leading up to this, me being planning, trying to control as much as possible. I talked to Micah Marino, the meat director, and I was like, what's the latest I could weigh her in and make an appointment to? And he's like 8 p.m. And I'm like, I want that also. And I'm so glad that I did that because when we went to check her weight, she was off by half a kilo. Because our scale was off. So, we had to come back and redo the entire process, not the entire process, but it's like, baby,

you just got to suck it up and sweat more. Spit like cinnamon gum, Jolly Ranchers, whatever. And there was, like, I said, like, fire, like dead body drag or whatever. Like she was in. I had like, I had like made waves. So I was like, okay, I need to cool off. So we did an ice bath. And the second, I was in the ice bath for like, I don't know, two minutes.

And then my whole body started like seizing. Like I cramped. I couldn't get out. So he literally had to like, Army drag me out of the bathtub. And it was a mess, dude. And that, that, uh, thumbs up photo to the very right. Yeah.

That's after she made weight. Is that where you're mooning? Yeah. Click over. Because, because that was such, it wasn't just an exercise. We're just leaving that up. It wasn't just an exercise in like cutting, but also recomping. Yeah.

Because we as soon it like so she missed weight at that 3 p.m. But it was just okay, we have to go do it again. Then we went in and weighed in at 8 p.m. That is cutting her recomp time by like six hours. Yeah, six, six eight hours. So we had so much less to go. But we literally hit her with three IV, three 500 milliliter back to saline with three three C CECs of intravenous carnitine at that same time.

And by like 10.30 p.m. after drinking water, I was already back at like 178. Without any solid meals. So it was just literally pure IV rehydration. And her body was like, we need, we need the water. Like you didn't even eat that much until the next morning. And then you had like a really nice breakfast. Yeah. And went in and had one of the best competitions of your life. Yeah. So got to be really careful with the food too, right? A hundred percent. Come flying out. That's where, yes. up with cutting weight.

It's because it's like you're dehydrated. If you're putting a bunch of fat, which is like the slowest digesting nutrient into an already dehydrated body, you're going to either throw up or shit your brains out. You're not going to digest anything. So it's like when we start introducing solid foods, it's moderate protein, very high carb, almost like non-existent fat. So it'll be like I'll do, you know, a combination of like vanilla way with orange juice. I'll do some gummy candy.

my first actual meal will be like more way and a bunch of cereal like as much as I want. Then I'll do like chicken and rice some fruit, beef and rice. I'll start introducing more fats and then later that night once I pissed clear and all that, then I'll do something very sodium heavy like sushi, Chinese food. That's usually what I do every time. And this is, that's the day before the me. Yeah. Because a lot of people with like whether it's fighters or power lifters or even bodybuilders or

whatever, like they think about dehydration as just. being, oh, I'm dehydrated, I need to rehydrate, so my muscles work the way that they should. Like, you completely don't account for the fact that your, your GI tract and your stomach and your intestine and everything internally also operates with water. Like the body is however many, much percent water. And you have to rehydrate that stuff first in order to actually absorb the nutrients to the degree that you want to. So how do you go from a 350 pound deadlift to a 650 pound deadlift. Steroids.

I know PEDs are part of it for sure. Honestly, I mean, I'm just consistent training and just like managing fatigue really because it's like I don't really train maximally all the time.

Like my training is pretty submax until I get to like my peaking which is anywhere from six to eight weeks or six to four weeks long. So it's really not, I'm not lifting like 90%. You guys sit down and like, devise a plan together or how does it work?

Yeah, kind of. It's, it's always been like, because this is, because I don't coach her in, in bodybuilding, but like in the powerlifting, I'm like the sports performance stuff. That's, that's what I love. And we kind of like make this, it's like an architecture plan where it's, it's a skeleton of like, this is what, this is the objective of this part. This is the objective of this part. This is how they're going to fold together and this is how we're going to move through it.

So leave a little bit of room to like a. adapt and modify and be malleable and like pull the rip cord when you need to or like press the pedal down when you need to whatever but just kind of like talking it over and then just thinking on the fly and knowing like this is what we should be doing right now so let's lean even further into it or back off because we've already accomplished it with such and such because I can't train for I can't train very heavy for very long anyway she's we've we've kind of made the analogy because like I would coach her and Hunter Henderson and like they're both top of the top female powerlifting, female bodybuilding, but they're also incredibly,

incredibly different on like a physiological and a biological perspective because Brie is like a Formula One vehicle where it goes super fast, but frequent pit stops, frequent, like get off the track, change the tires, refuel, all right, get back to it, go super fast and get the fuck out. Hunter is like a 18 wheeler where it's like takes her a little bit of speed to go, to get up to speed, but once she's going, it's like you could throw a missile at her and nothing would happen. You guys have seen her. It's like she's a literal and figurative Mac truck. Like she did what? She's, she just hit 365 for a triple with a slingshot in bodybuilding, like off-season training. Just not having fun, you know, so. But, but it's, it's very much like not,

we don't, we never would really plan like a strategic proactive delode, but always leave room the opportunity to like at in two week or four week increments have like a pivot week. Dude, I'm so sad looking back at that. Dude, it was so fun. It was because and so to continue this story with the American pro like it was a series of, you competed like seven times. Dude, I competed way too much span. Yeah. But like ended it with the abs pro. No, the American pro. The American, the next American pro. Yeah, I forgot. But, uh, but yeah, like, because she in that interim, we went over to Dublin, Ireland, and she won like the big untested powerlifting side of the world, international competition, the abs pro, where it's essentially IPF rules, but untested.

Yeah. So it's walked out on a power bar, everything done on a power bar. And at that time, she deadlifted the most ever pulled on a power bar in conjunction with the record that she had. It was 611 pounds. Yeah. So I'm actually curious about this, Brie. And Joe, too, chime in.

but do you think that your, because like, do you think that your powerlifting helped you as a bodybuilder, necessarily a physique athlete athlete, do you think the physique training that you did, did that help you as a power lifter? Yeah, I think they're both complementary because, I mean, every powerlifter who's gone into bodybuilding has done exceptionally well because of the amount of density and muscle and just the ability to actually train fucking hard, you know, like that pressure. We're used to that. And then on the other side, I think, yeah,

hyperchiphew training helped me with power lifting because it's like no one ever got weaker from building more muscle. So I think they're both complimentary. It's just you have to be able to know how to periodize your training and when to lot off and when to push and yeah, I enjoy both. Now more of like a bodybuilding focus question

because in bodybuilding, they focus a lot on the frame. So people want to have a smaller waist. And generally, let me know if you guys think this is a myth, but it's something that people notice. with heavier training, like power lifting style training, you have to have a strong fucking course. So you build extra muscle there. So do you think that there is a detriment?

Cause some bodybuilding coaches don't like their athletes to do certain types of training because they're like, your waist will get bigger. Yeah, what are your thoughts? I made a post about this like last year. And I think that it made my waist even better. Ooh, how? Because my waist didn't get any bigger,

my abs just got more defined. Like I just, I personally, in my experience, on. It didn't, it didn't, it wasn't detriment to me. And and I would say not so much because I kind of with, with my perspective on like so much of this stuff, it's like I want to like step back because it's like, I don't necessarily think that the big compound movements are going to make your waist worse or better, but it's just like building muscle. You can have IFBB pros that are not very strong simply because they don't know how to use the tissue that they've created. It's a similar prospect with training in big compound movements.

It made Briani better because she developed the musculature, but then she's such a talented athlete that she can cue into that musculature from like the neuromotor perspective and control it. Because if you say like, hey, you need to go train vacuums, but someone has never been able to mentally connect to or isolate their abdomen, you say that and you're like, what the, what do you mean?

I don't know what you mean. You tell that to a powerlifter who is as naturally in tune with their body as Briani is and through development and training. It's like, hey, you need to do a vacuum. Okay, well, intra-abdominal pressure is this way. Then I just pull it in. Okay. I'll just train that. It's kind of the reframe where I don't think, this is where like these arguments end up being circular.

Yeah. Where it's like, oh, you don't want to get too bulky. You don't want to get too thick. But it's like you don't want to get too thick. but everybody rewards density and hardness on the bodybuilding stage. Yeah. What the fuck do you mean then, dude? You just frame it differently and then you get the outcome a little bit differently based on the intention or the execution.

I imagine a lot of combination of things going on too, right? Like just overeating. Yeah. Things like that. Yeah. And again, like bodybuilding is probably one of the more unfortunate sports because everything shows up. It's not just from your prep. It's not just from your off season.

It's from like what you did when you were seven, eight, nine years old and so forth. Whether you were kind of sitting on the couch watching cartoons eating Doritos or were you playing soccer or running or involved in some other sport. So it's a difficult sport. And I think to try to locate where the bigger stomachs or bigger waste comes from probably kind of hard because probably somewhat genetic. Maybe it has to do with activity, but probably has to do with overeating. and then nowadays growth hormone and all the other things that are involved in bodybuilding to kind of blow out their stomachs. A hundred percent for sure.

And it's that same perspective. Like whenever you try to like minimize the human body into like one system or one aspect, it's not, it can never be that because there's so much going on simultaneously. It's like you can't simplify a super complex system into one. Oh, well, you did squat so you have a bad waist. It's like, no, okay, maybe. a portion of it, but it's probably

all of this other stuff. And then you were eating a thousand grams of carbs in your off season. What do you think that's going to do to your gut? You know? For your food choices. Exactly. So it's just a culmination of stuff. And honestly, sometimes people are just better. Yeah, based on genetics and

yeah, everything. So. Physique sports are kind of like a genetic based sport. How you look. I mean, you can change your muscle, like how much muscle you have, but your frame is your frame. Yeah, you can't change your structure. Yeah. That's, that's why I told everybody. They're like, how you're going to try, like, go for a pro card or like be like,

like, you're going to break like break more records or like that same verbiage. I'm like, no, dude, I'm not. I ain't never going to be nothing in bodybuilding. I'm going to get super peeled and be like, cool. I look freaking crazy and freaky, but it's like I'm, I'm never going to be that guy. Yeah, it's like grainy and freak factor physique versus like aesthetic like a Chris bumstead or something. Yeah.

Did it teach you anything? 100%. A hundred percent. I, bodybuilding was one of like the best experiences I've ever participated in as an adult just because this was so fun we're at an all-oclusive in Mexico and we're just being idiots for like four days but bodybuilding was incredible because I for a lot of people they said they would say like bodybuilding ruined my perspective with food or like gave me a bad perspective with the food I think bodybuilding

gave me the best perspective with and relationship with food I've ever I've ever had because it really forced me to maintain a certain degree of presence every single day with every decision that I made because I always like I was when I was 14 years old I was over 300 pounds I was a very very heavy kid I've talked about it before and I wrestled in college powerlifting I was as big as possible big strong whatever and I never I wouldn't say that I had a bad relationship with food throughout my whole life but it wasn't perfect and it still isn't perfect it never will be but with bodybuilding it put me in the perspective of being like this is I'm choosing what I eat I'm choosing what to put in my mouth every single day and that is evidence of those decisions and it was this is all going on like

we talked on the podcast previously. It's like I'm not done as an athlete, but I'm not, I'm like in the, in the evolution stages of like I'm not the, I'm not Joe Sullivan powerlifter anymore. I never planned to be Joe Sullivan bodybuilder. I'm not my identity of the things that I do and doing bodybuilding and realizing that it was, it was much more difficult in a lot of ways than powerlifting ever was. but it was also rewarding and fulfilling, but in very, very different ways than power lifting ever was and kind of understanding that that is

what life is and what the gift of experience and new things is was just a really, really cool thing that I never really thought I would get from putting a speedo on and flexing for dudes sitting in chairs, you know? But it was cool. And it's why it's exciting thinking about the other stuff

to do, I was talking to you guys, like I want to run a 10K, maybe do a high rocks, maybe run a marathon eventually, maybe do powerlifting in a recreational sense or something, you know, just different stuff. You're going to do that shit by yourself. No, actually, I talk about doing like a high rocks doubles together. Oh, there you go. I think it would be funny. Her rocks is reasonable. There's strength and there's a little bit of running.

Yeah, yeah, you know, I still think I keep talking to her. I want to do this as a funny YouTube video. I want to do the beer mile. Yeah. Have you guys ever done the beer mile? I've never done it. Oh, dude, no, and see what we should do the beer mile. We should do it.

We should all do it. I'll do it this weekend or I'll do it. I'll do it like today. I don't care. That'd be hilarious. You just go on a track in every lap because you got a shotgun of beer. Yeah. Seems terrible.

Horrible. Some guy did it in like five minutes. That's incredible. Yeah. It's crazy. You know he drinks. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Part of the training. I think that would be hilarious. I think that would be a good time. What do you guys kind of think of. where power lifting is at right now because a lot of the numbers

it's getting smashed some people are talking about the bars you know because the sumo deadlift like the sumo deadlift years ago I don't know maybe maybe 30 or 40% of the people used the sumo deadlift and then now if you you know check out like

IPF worlds or something like that it seems like almost every athlete is doing a sumo deadlift I don't even know if the IPF has changed their bars but didn't Colton just hit like 1146 you did yeah yeah I think it was 1146. I think it was in straps in a meat sumo.

But yeah, what are some of your thoughts? You know, a lot of these records are getting thrashed. And you got guys like Colton coming down the pipeline that are just annihilating all-time world records. But some of it has to do with the advancement of the deadlift and the deadlift bar. I also think a lot of it has to do with lately. Just the standards are not being upheld. Unfortunately. There's been a lot.

There's been a lot of high squats. A lot of deadlifts that aren't necessarily locked out. And not Colton. Not Colton's like Colton's, Colton's an outlier. Yeah. Because like he's the example of the talent pool being wide enough and more people being exposed to this. Because like you back when I, back when I started powerlifting, I did power lifting,

but I was also wrestling, also playing football. I was doing all these other things. And it was never like at 14 years old. It was something that I did. But I wasn't like, oh, I'm going to be the best in the world in powerlifting. It's just a mechanism or, a method by which I would improve my other sports. There are guys like Colton who or even Briani because like you started at 14 and it wasn't

really ever like I'm going to be a sprinter. I'm going to play volleyball at the high level. You were like I just want to be as strong as possible. It's that type of expansion of the talent pool paired with like more people getting exposed to it. And then also like yeah, everyone's using the sumo dead. Or not everyone, but most people at the high level. and it's like I always think back to the Fosbury flop,

like the high jump technique, because nobody did that. Nobody did that years ago. And then I don't even know his name, but the guy named Fosberry did it. And then people are like, oh, shit, you can jump higher. Yeah, people use to jump forward over it. Yeah, we're all going to do that.

And now that's the standard technique. It's the same type of thing with powerlifting. And it's also, it's another, the only reason that like I think we would say, like the judging criteria and the barbell minutia is because you're getting into the margins of it where we could be like that's the technique but then they weren't using extremely like I don't know any of the terminology or any equipment but imagine like today the shoes compared to those shoes back then there's there's changes in equipment like improvements in the not only the technique but also like

the technical variables and it's like it's it's hard to say because They say like with a proper track and proper shoes that someone like Jesse Owens would run probably not too far off from Usain Bolt, which is a crazy thing to estimate, but that's what they believe would happen. Yeah. So it's hard to say. And I don't really know because there's, I don't want to say that there's always going to be outliers, but there are always outliers. And I'm interested to see what the next step is because even though, and I don't even know if you guys know this because we probably just do because we're more in like in it currently but like colton's breaking the records hack is still doing hack things the IPF side is still excelling incredibly but

participation in powerlifting is down it's it's lower than it has been over the past two years compared to the years previous and it's the first time you've you've seen like a downtrend and do you know why have any do you have any i could i could guess in way i could i could guess in major, but it's probably, it's a lot of the political stuff and the fracturing, at least on the untested side. Yeah. Because the drug tested side, IPF, PA, USAPL, even there, there's fracturing and like disagreements, but it's more of a unified and like regulated uniform approach. On the untested side, there's the judging criteria is arguable. People are breaking world records in like meets that are held in someone's backyard and they're comparing it to people that did it at like a

more professional setting. There's difference of equipment. You can't do that. You know, you can't do that in like track. You can't do that swimming. Right. You have to do it in like viable spots. There's only certain places where you can break a world record or obviously Olympic record would be at the Olympics. Yeah. And that's and that's that paired with just the the, the, there's just been a lot of political. not political upheaval, but it's been like there's been lawsuits, litigation, people going against other people. And it's a very, very grassroots sport,

which is a huge positive in a lot of different ways. But then you get into the situation where if there is that degree of fracturing, how can it ever elevate beyond that? Because a lot of these guys are not doing it as their primary source of income. Because we're both, we both were our whatever professional, power lifters over the course of a two-decade career, 20 years, I made $11,000 directly from powerlifting. The math doesn't add up super solid when it comes to that. When you think about professional, because you think about a pro. And you weren't just a pro. You have world records.

Best in the world. Exactly. And it's when you think about that and think like, okay, even even the best of the best are still having to either figure out how to monetize their bestness or work. work full-time regular jobs to sustain this hobby sport that they're engaging in. All right, Mark, you're getting leaner and leaner, but you always enjoy the food you're eating. So how are you doing it? I got a secret, man. It's called Good Life Protein. Okay. Tell me about that.

I've been doing some Good Life Protein. You know, we've been talking on the show for a really long time of certified Pete Montese beef. And you can get that under the umbrella of Good Life Proteins, which also has chicken breast, chicken thighs, sausage, shrimp, scallops, all kinds of different fish, salmon, tilapia. The website has nearly any kind of meat that you can think of lamb. There's another one that comes of mind. And so I've been utilizing and kind of using some different strategy, kind of depending on the way that I'm eating.

So if I'm doing a keto diet, I'll eat more fat and that's where I might get the sausage and I might get their 80-20, grass-fed, grass-finish, ground beef. I might get bacon. And there's other days where I kind of do a little bit more. bodybuilder style where the fat is, you know, might be like 40 grams or something like that. And then I'll have some of the leaner cuts of the certified Piedmontese beef. This is one of the reasons why like neither of us find it hard to stay in shape because we're always enjoying the food we're eating.

And protein, you talk about protein leverage it all the time. It's satiating and helps you feel full. I look forward to every meal. And I can surf and turf, you know. I could cook up some, you know, chicken thighs or something like that and have some shrimp with it. or I could have some steak. I would say, you know, the steak, it keeps going back and forth for me on my favorites.

So it's hard for me to lock one down, but I really love the bovette steaks. Yeah. And then I also love the rib-eyes as well. You can't go wrong with the rib-eyes. So, guys, if you guys want to get your hands on some really good meat, you can have to Good Life Proteins.com

and use code power for 20% off any purchases made on the website. Or you can use code Power Project to get an extra 5% off. if you subscribe and save to any meats that are a recurring purchase. This is the best meat in the world. It gets to a point where it's hard to continue to seek further and further elevation or even just from a fiscal perspective have enough capital to drive the sport forward. I think like the USAPL and like is the USPA still around?

It is. Yeah. But it's like way down compared to like four or five years ago. It seemed like it was going crazy. USAPL, I think, is debunked, right? It doesn't... It still exists. It still is. That's just the weird... I thought something strange happened to it. It's, it's, it did, it's not the IPF affiliate anymore. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. So there is a new IPF affiliate in the United States called powerlifting America. It's PA. Yeah. So now it's basically PA PA versus USAPL. And USAPL created the IDFPA, which is now the inner, their version of an

international body to go against the IPF. And that's why I said, even though it's more unified on the tested side, there's still this schism that is ultimately, maybe it's resulting in better competition. Maybe it's resulting in better, more strict approaches to drug testing or professional settings or whatever. But when you look at the sport where it's so grassroots and mom and pop along with the 18 year old kid, along with the guy who's doing this as his version of 5K fund runs on the weekend, none of them care about that.

And all that ultimately happens is it potentially negatively impacts that level of participation. And that's what pushes the sport forward when there isn't some big capital backing. Like there's no Nike. There's no like Reebok. There was Reebok record breakers. And it's like even to that, it's just sponsoring a meet. There is no like inflow of like this is the. the skeleton or the architecture of the professional nature of the sport. Even with bodybuilding,

there's the NPC and then the IFBB, the International Federation of Bodybuilding. That's the Pro League. You don't pay, she doesn't pay registration fees. She doesn't pay for a membership every year. And then everything else is covered. With powerlifting, I would be, I'm a professional power lifter, best in the world. Okay, here's 200, here's your invoice for 250 dollars to sign up for meat. Here's the meat hotel that you need to pay for. Oh, you want a t-shirt, 30 bucks, please. Oh, you want to bring your media guy? A thousand bucks, please. It's you pay your way. It's not the ultimate perspective. And it's like people disagree. I've said this before and people always disagree with me. It's like it's all semantics. There's no such thing as professional powerlifting.

It doesn't exist. There's like elite powerlifting from a performance standpoint. Professional league of powerlifting? No. No. That doesn't. doesn't exist. I like shit, I hope that I have enough capital one day that I can break the system and make that happen because that would be an amazing thing that I would be able to do. And I honestly like have dreams about doing it. But at the same time, I understand that's probably just a giant money sink. And it would just make me freaking miserable. So who knows, you know? It's very hard if you've been close to the sport for too long. Yes. Yes. Yep. Yeah. Which happens with most occupations in sports. You know, you stay close to them for too long.

when you kind of recognize a lot of people are sour. And then you're like, I don't even know if I want to put this much energy into something like that. Exactly. Yep. Yep. And that's, but it's, it's both like I can never, I can never look at powerlifting as like a negative thing because it,

I literally built my entire life around it. And I met my life partner through it. And just all of the experiences that have led me to this moment. It's like ultimately been at the beginning because of power lifting and something. form or fashion. But people look at me and they're like, oh, Joe, I want to be a content creator. I want to be a pro power lifter. I want to be an influencer the way that you are. And it's like, don't just limit yourself to it's why I've had this big conversation about like identity. It's don't just attach yourself

to the single endeavor. It's, it's an amazing avenue by which you can apply yourself and gain fulfillment, but it's not the only thing. And I don't know if it's ever going to be bigger than it is now or where it could be if things worked out the way that they could or should or whatever. But who knows? Maybe it's not supposed to. Maybe this is what power lifting is supposed to be. Maybe it's supposed to be the grassroots 5K fun run for some people, you know, with Masseron. I don't know. Master. You guys get a little frustrated with, you know, everyone's a coach and everyone's trying to sell something You know, everyone's got like a hustle, which is fine, I guess, right?

But the fitness industry, I mean, you guys are coaches and you guys have experience that's probably different than experience that other people might have. When people come to you guys, like, what are some of the struggles? Do you have to kind of like unwind or unravel maybe potential poor coaching or you don't see that much? Or what are you guys seeing out there? Yeah, there's a lot. There are too many cooks in the kitchen a lot.

And in the age of social media, it's the age of immediate information, but probably much less comprehension. And there's a lot of folks who think that they understand how to get strong, how to make progress, but they've only done that with their own experience. Or they've only done it with their own experience for a short period of time. because I said like two decades in the space, I thought, like Mark, when I first met you in 2015 or whatever that was, I was hot shit, you couldn't tell me anything. I was like, I know exactly what it takes to get here. I am going to be the best in the world, blah, blah, blah.

I'm going to kick ass, yada, yada, and then I got hurt. And then I hit plateaus. And then I had such and such and such and such. What was the year of the barbell? 2018. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

The barbell bending on my. my neck and that yeah yeah got to bring the video out dude always always but that uh just a lot of people who haven't put in the time yet or haven't gone through like trials and tribulations to be able to even effectively coach others through those situations which and and my whole especially with just the influencer perspective or the like influencer mindset and like everybody having a hustle everybody wanting to monetize something there's so much talk about how let's focus on business aspect. Let's scale our business. Let's make more money. 10K months. Like DME scale to do the fuck whatever. And I respect it. Like I, it's how I provide for my family. It's how we live

the lives that we do. But I never got into this. And I sound like such an old man when I say some of this stuff. But it's just the guy that's done it for a while. But I never got into this to be, oh, I want to make as much money as I can. It was like, I love. I love it. I love you. getting people strong. We at Stephen Lawrence, he lost 200 plus pounds changing his life. I do that for free. The fact that I make money off of it, it's fucking cool, dude. I live my dream every day when I get these stupid messages and have to talk people off the ledge of being like, oh, I cheated on my diet is my life over. And it's like, dude, just chill out. But like I started all of this to help people. And I have Livlearn pass on, which is the old elite FTS motto on my arm because it's always been about that.

Like I want to leave a lasting positive impact on the community and on people. And there's just so much of a focus on the financial aspect, so much of a focus on how can I make money, how can I automate, how can I optimize, how can I do all of this? And maybe if we actually just took a moment to think about things and learn and be a little bit more cerebral and learn how to communicate that better with one person, you could have a larger magnitude of impact on that one person than you might have if you work with 10 people. You might make less money, but I think that's cooler. And it's it, I think that's more meaningful. And it's just an, it's an ongoing thing. And it's why, like, we've talked about, I, I'm, I have like a million different projects and just stuff that I want to do. But I, I want to create some type of, like, coaching course or something where, like, this would, that would be the mindset or the approach.

And then it, even saying it, it's like, okay, well, then I'm monetizing that. And it's like, is that being hypocritical? Like, what the fuck are we doing? You know, but, but it's just, it's a weird, it's a weird environment because it's the age of information and it moves so quickly. And it's just like I couldn't lie to you. It's very frustrating to see a lot of folks where they compete once or they have one successful client or they have one successful experience or even not so successful of an experience. But then they try to sell it to you and sell it on a large scale. And that's social media.

It's just it's a very interesting time that we live in when it comes to that. It's just kind of tough, tough pill to swallow is that we all tend to get lumped in together. And you're like, but I'm a little different. It's like, no, we're not. Because you do get lumped together. I've had, I have had so many, because I do some of the automation stuff. Like I do outbound lead generation and I'm getting on sales calls and talking to people and consultation calls, all that stuff.

And so often people are like, ah, I had a really shitty experience with an online coach. Like he just said that he was going to do all this stuff. And then it was just copy paste. And I never talked to him once again. And it's it's frustrating to hear that that is not the norm, but it's not, it's not uncommon. And it just makes me feel bad because I think about how I've been in this since I was 14 in some former fashion and really like went deep into it when I was like 17, 18. And if I, I can't even imagine what I would feel like if I messaged Dave Tate or John Meadows back when I was a teenager and I got hit with like an AI. automated message and be like, hey, check out my ebook rather than John being like, hey,

how are you doing? That's a really great idea. Like maybe try this. That changed my life. Like those little conversations changed my life. And it just honestly, it makes me sad from like a moralistic or an ideological perspective to think that we're not having those conversations anymore because everybody's just focused on how to optimize. And I need to free my time so that I can make more money so that I can free my, free my time more. And it's like this constant to get like a lead out of it. Right. You know.

Just helping people without expecting anything in return besides them using that information to help make themselves better. Yeah. So it's a weird time. It's an interesting experience, 2026. Is that kind of what you guys, you guys have a podcast? Is that kind of like the vehicle of that? Like is that what it's like you know, you guys are going to be able to share information there,

right? So what's the avenue where you guys, are looking to do more of that. It's, we still, it's, it's not even the podcast. It's just the YouTube channel in general.

Because I, this is part of, and I don't, like, I want you to chime in because I'm just answering this. But I know you're just being like athlete and I'm like, I'm still fucking kicking ass and whatever. But,

but, but that's why I, like, with my own, like my own contributions to our YouTube channel, I've been kind of taking, because we're, we're both,

RP strength sponsored athletes and I'm an RP strength coach and columnist, which is like, there are more on the hypertrophy side of things, but just the scientifically backed and my side of unga bunga mity head, because I'm not, I'm, I'm a science guy, but I'm, I'm the stupidest science guy out there because I've just ingratiated myself with very intelligent people. And it's like osmosis via intelligence, but I'm not, I'm faking it. It's all fake. I'm just, I'm just caveman with with a big head but I'm I really man with big head still get big I know I know hey I know I know it's working but but but I've been really kind of like wanting to fit their model of with my YouTube like not even making it about my own training that's why when we walked in these guys were like what do uh what are

you doing with your training I'm like I don't really know I don't know I'm having fun I'm doing a lot of different stuff. But that's not really my focus right now. I want to train and impart that knowledge. And I don't even want to say knowledge because it's not knowledge to me. It's just my perspective and interpretation of like how to train and how to think. And it's an important perspective. Yeah. And if I've been taking a lot of people through training sessions like you guys saw, I took Hunter, I took Paul and Paul like and thinking outside the box and just kind of giving my own insight as to how to intermarry the different perspectives of not only that that's oscillating isometric oscillating isometric muscle action so you see what's happening it's that isometric

external rotation resisting it with the band but adding the oscillating element it seems to again science beyond me i have no idea i speak i speak on gabunga caveman stuff the owingy boingy it causes a little bit more of an adaptation to occur and it really, really helps open up the shoulders and allow you to get into a better position, which isn't going to build you more muscle, but it's going to allow those positions to be played into and to be worked upon more effectively. So if Hunter struggles to isolate her back, how do we get more back isolation and better efficiency? Increase more potential. We open up that external rotation capacity, then apply that to her lat training. And it's not directly going to cause bigger magnitude of gains, but it's essentially that whole perspective of

rather than increasing your ceiling, you're elevating your floor so that the ceiling increases to follow. She's also learning how to like decrease her tension in those types of positions. Relax. Exactly. Additionally for posing, right? A hundred percent. People can get real big and they can get in great shape, but if they can't emphasize their physique through movement on stage, then it's not going to look the way that they want it to look, right? 100%. And that's one of the only reasons, I swear, that, like, I had as good of a presentation on stage as I did

because I do not have an aesthetic physique. I'm built like a cinder block. Even the most leanest that I could have been, I was still very, very thick. Posing and not only posing, but being able to tap into that active range of motion and that level of mobility, like conscious engagement,

allowed me to get into the positions to maybe not the whole time, but when I'm posing, it's like, damn, he's got a really small waist. I had them tell me, you have a really nice, tight waist on stage. And I'm like, that's hilarious. Because you guys have no idea. It was just about manipulating the position. And that's where it's like, I'm not, I'd never call myself a bodybuilding coach. I'm not a powerlifting coach. I'm not any specific like endeavor coach. I'm just a coach because if you look at the human physiology, the biology, and just like the outcomes that you're training for, if you take a big enough perspective back and think how can I achieve this in a little bit more of an efficient way or in a way that just doesn't make me have to work as hard, learn how to relax, learn how to engage this over that, it will allow you to have better outcomes and maybe do it for a longer period of time, which is why I think she could still be doing this when she's like 45. if she wanted to. You say that now.

Yeah. Okay, so first off, Joe, it's great how humble you are with the amount of things that you know because you know a lot of shit, a lot. People, you guys should go listen to our last podcast, you did do the jail. But my curiosity is this because science-based lifting has become a meme. And it's not that science is not useful. It's not that like learning what we have from hypertrophy research, exercise science research, is not useless. But now, kind of like what you were inferring earlier, a lot of people, when it comes

to coaching, it's like, I'm a science-based coach, I'm a science-based lifter, I'm a science-based this, I'm a science-based that. And it's like, how do you think about this for yourself? Because it's not like, I don't think you guys both disregard the science, but also you guys are, you guys take action, you guys do things that maybe scientifically hasn't necessarily been validated in the studies as of yet. It's all like science-based shit. It's just the way that you look at it because I would say, yes, I train in, you know, I have, I train like RP style because my, you know, I have my week one, which is like three RAR, two RERR or whatever. And people are like, oh, people who train with reps and reserves are pussies. But it's like, yeah, if you don't know what the line is.

I feel like that a lot of people would benefit if they first started when they first start training, just start taking shit to failure because you don't know where the line is until you literally cross it. Or some meathead in the gym is like, oh, that shit's gay, blah, blah, whatever. But, you know, I'm just going to take this delode and I'm not really going to train. That's periodization. You're still periodizing your training. You're just not thinking about it in that way

because one, you just don't know or two, you don't care enough to do that. Or they can't pronounce periodization. Yeah, whether that is you taking a week off from the gym, whether that's you, you know, taking off some volume or adjusting your rep ranges, that's still periodization. So it's all encompassing.

It's just literally the way that, You think about it. How do you not get engulfed by it? Because this is the thing. You like there is a balance here. You don't ignore, but there's there you've seen, you've seen the science base like this is the best contraction for the foam roller. Right.

You've seen it like it. And I think it's, this is the thing. We make jokes, but we've also been doing this shit for a long time. So I feel like it can be very confusing for a 16, 17, 18 year old kid who goes into lifting. Then they see a bunch of nippered and Isretel and a lot of this stuff. And sometimes like, well, if I don't have enough volume, I have too little volume, I'm not going to grow. Like, you know what? It can be overwhelming because all these, everyone watches just grow, right?

So how do you parse that out? It's, so this is the perpetual, not the struggle, but this is the, it ties back to the conversation that we just have where it's the age of information. Yeah. But it's the age of lack of comprehension or, or inundation, like flooding of too much info. Because I think about growing up, if I had access to all this stuff, I have no idea what I would have done. I probably would have quit. I don't know. But it's difficult because how I can't really answer, how do you parse that out on a global scale? It's just about this is why I make an Instagram real every day. And I just throw stuff up there because it's like if I can offer that perspective or potentially make some course or YouTube. series where it's the unga bunga science method i don't know because what is my favorite cliche or my favorite like phrase well you need to start that series i i know i i keep saying it it's like the munga

and and the oingy boingy because it's like oymah is cool but it's like do the oingy boingy it's like i i like it's like i it's like i like it but but my favorite phrase or one of my favorite cliches is what is what is science that isn't understood yet it's magic it's it's it's it's it's It's like if I took my smartphone to the year 1600 and walked around and was like, I'm going to play a song. They'd be like, you're a freaking witch. What the hell is that? Burn him. Dude, seriously.

Like seriously, though. So if you look at some of this stuff, whether it's even on the PED side, because we're huge, when it comes to powerlifting, huge in the non-endrogenic PED utilization. And also just thinking outside the box because you can't simplify a complex system to one component of. that system. It is a gigantic situation and it's this big choreography between the entire thing paired with the psychological, the

emotional. People are like, oh, well, what is it? Maybe it's the placebo effect. Think about that in general. The placebo effect exists. I give somebody a sugar pill and I tell them it's D-Ball and they build 10 pounds of muscle. What the fuck? The brain

can do that? That's insane. That shouldn't be like, oh, well, like, that shouldn't lead you to the conclusion that like, oh, steroids are this big of a magnitude. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The self-belief, that's the crazy part. So somehow, I hope that, because I don't want, I hate seeing this, like, condemnation or demonization of science-based lifting in general. But it's thinking about it from the perspective of evidence-based lifting. Because there's a lot of the science, a lot of both, like, more conventional.

science and then the theoretical science, but then what is the activity of bodybuilding or weight training in general? We have a giant data pool to pull from perpetually. And it's all anecdote, but if 20,000 guys did it this way, even if it wasn't exactly controlled, you can deduce some stuff from them. Like maybe, yeah, okay, it's not always awesome to go over the line. But, you know, sometimes you compete seven times in a year and you break like a bunch of fucking all time world records and like blaze a trail in the history books. I don't think there's like a general blanket answer, but I feel like especially as someone starting out, just literally keep it simple. Get really good at something and then extrapolate further and and try new methods. Be a kid.

Yeah. Just eat a lot. Eat a lot of protein. Lift weights and the rest will come. And I just want to mention. And I think what you, this, I mean, everything you guys said was great. But like that's, that's like the most important thing right there. Because when you have so many people telling you the optimal way to do things,

sometimes it can be a little bit. You feel like an imposter for trying, playing around. Yeah, yeah. Right? So it's like I see a lot of young lifters who are scared to just give it time. Because the thing is, is y'all been doing this. How old are both of you? 29.

29. 32. 32. So you've been lifting for 15 years. You've been lifting for fucking 19 years. Right. In 19 and 15 years, there have been a lot of changes, a lot of learning. And you got to give yourself the time to do that shit.

It just takes a minute. It takes a while. There's just a lot of people that are trying to decide what's the best way instead of just acting. It's like stop thinking so much and just do and you'd probably be a lot further along than if you just took, you know, X amount of time deciding what's the best. And I hate the word optimal because optimal means. Optimal for me is way different from you or you or you depending on your work schedule, your life stress, all of the type of modality of workouts that you like to do in this whole managing

what you like. It's like you should get fatigue. That's good. That's a, that's a, like it's all a stress response. You need a stress response to make adaptations. It's like so.

I'm so happy the word optimal triggered you. I don't like it either. That's why I used it. Yeah. Because like the mom who has two kids who just wants to get fit, her optimal is going to look way. different from mine who's trying to be the 1% of the 1%. So just do what works for you, something that you can actually fucking manage, first of all, stop stressing yourself out.

And then once you can actually build a routine and build habits and get in a groove, then start adding one thing at a time versus just trying to throw shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. And then you never stick to anything. I think a lot of people, they just want to be like super precise. You know, they want to be like particular. They want to like have something almost like written out that they could follow. And it doesn't always work that way. And just because you only did a workout where you only had for whatever reason, you only had eight minutes to do some sort of shoulder workout or some sort of routine

where you're just getting yourself exhausted doing burpees or something like that, it's still worth it. You know, there's no, there's no amount of exercise that will ever be too little. If it's always too little, then it might be too little too late. you might not get the results you're looking for because you might not induce enough stress. But if you're talking about embracing the long term and understanding that you're going to be doing this for a long time, I remember telling my brother-in-law, like, he started to lose some weight and he started to make some progress. And he kind of just didn't understand when he was losing

the weight, like this is, this is forever. And I said something like that to him. He goes, that's the most disappointing thing I've ever heard in my life. I was like, I know. I know. I understand where you're coming from. But like, like, you didn't. didn't lose the weight and now that's over. It's like you lost the weight, now you have to try to figure out a way to manage it or continue to make more progress. And that's the hardest part is after you're done with the diet. It's like you have to reverse out of that.

You can't just be like, oh, I lost the 20 pounds. I'm good now because in three, four weeks, if you just go back to doing what you're doing, hey, you're back at square one again. So it's like you have to be even more disciplined once a diet is done. It's the same with reverse diding out of a bodybuilding show. That's harder than prep for me personally because it's like, like, oh, you know, I have freedom now. I can do whatever I want, but it's like, no, your body is

actually in the most vulnerable position right now and you need to slowly dig yourself out of that hole in order to come back to a baseline. So you don't balloon up and you gain a ton of weight and you're just adding calories slowly, right? Exactly. It's like add, you know, 150 calories this week or whatever it is or, you know, and over time and you have to check your weight and all of that stuff. It's like You need to have measurable things of progress so that you can manage the weight loss or whatever it is. You know, when you lift in the gym for so long, you know, it's like hard not to get caught up with the weight. But more recently, I've just been, I've been paying attention to like just how I feel with, with the movement rather than the weight. Especially with the gripless straps I've been messing with and stuff like that, just trying to lock into the lats.

And you showed me a bunch of stuff with the lats and stuff like that too when I was out there. there in Vegas training with Joe. But it's interesting when you really are, like it depends on what you're trying to get from the exercise and what it is that you're actually trying to accomplish. But if you're trying to, you know, make your muscles bigger,

trying to for hypertrophy, man, there's so many different ways that you can do it. And there's so many different ways that you can like kind of lock into an exercise to feel it. And for people that maybe aren't feeling certain exercises, it's like, that's kind of step one.

Like learn how to feel the exercise. Somebody might be like, oh, I'd rather do, you know, cable crossovers than to do dumbbell flies. Well, it's because they probably can't feel the dumbbell flies very well. Maybe their shoulder mobility is not good. Maybe it kind of halfway hurts. But those are things to explore.

Those are things to work on. Same thing with a dumbbell trisip extension. I've had people over the years, you know, because that's a west side barbell movement that's been done forever. People always say, oh, those hurt my elbow. I'm like, well, what if you use 10 pound dumbbell? Like, yeah, that doesn't hurt. Okay, then.

Like we have a starting point. Okay, let's maybe, I know you don't want to use the tens because you feel like you can use the 40s. Yeah. But if using the 40s is hurting you, you know, so it always kind of depends on the result you're looking for and things like that. But I find that being attached to the weight too much, I think is also something that's detrimental to a lot of people.

Absolutely. A hundred, 100%. More weight doesn't always equal more muscle. It's like I could, could I lap, pull down 200 pounds? Probably. Would I get more stimulus out of, you know, taking 50 pounds off of that and doing that for? multiple reps and actually feeling the contraction absolutely so yeah and and that's honestly that's been a

huge a huge struggle point for me but it's definitely i've had i felt that aspect of my brain talking to me like being post powerlifting because i miss i miss the heavy stuff i miss putting i remember i've hit 700 pounds for eight reps i've hit 620 pounds for 12 reps like i've done insane strength stuff and I miss that aspect but it's about that reframing of the perspective that you like you were talking about the diet earlier but looking at it as a lifelong endeavor a lifelong commitment I I can't you can't expect yourself to be as strong as you were at the top of your game forever but that's the point of being like adaptable and getting to a certain point within your training age because can he you know put 650 pounds in the barbell is that realistic right now no but can

you add in certain intensity techniques that can make 300 pounds feel like 600 pounds yes that's when you get into the cluster sets the myore reps the rest pauses the tempos on both the eccentric concentric adding a pause things like that's like that's when timing your rest yeah timing your rest it's like that's and people in the and very young training age can do that stuff but that's why i said you should master the basics first because then you can get into the really fun and to be honest awful shit of making really lightweights feel extremely hard so i think those are super beneficial and and to that point it's it's a lot i think with the science base lifting perspective and a lot of the social media perspective in general of i want to be a bodybuilder i want to be a power lifter i want to do

all of these things. Folks are really, really, and it's the same cliche every generation. We're just magnifying it or looking at it a different way. But people are looking at the destination more than the actual journey. Well, I think that they want the destination more than they actually want all the things that come with it as well. Right. They have no idea what it takes to be the top of the top because you only see the highlight

reel. You see the YouTube videos, the Instagram posts and all that shit. It's like you're not seeing, you know, 8 a.m. gym or 8 p.m. gym sessions when nobody's there, when, you know, end of a long work day or just doing shit that you simply don't want to do. Seeing you squeeze yourself into your waist trainer. Yeah, like the injuries that people don't even know about, like I'm, you know, my back fucking hurts on, you know, X, Y, Z movement, but am I still getting it done?

Because that's literally what it takes. You have to learn to be comfortable, being uncomfortable in order to be great at anything. Yeah. And if, and if you're so focused on the finish line, you forget what. You forget what it means to take every step, you know? And then even if you do reach that finish line, how do you know where to go after that? And then you're doing one of these,

fuck now what? Exactly. You know? You guys feel like bodybuilding and powerlifting had some similarities in terms of like, you know, how to build a deadlift. Like you're going to utilize a lot of other movements to help to help build your deadlift. And when you're trying to build like hammies and glutes,

you're going to probably use a variety. of exercises, maybe not just target just one thing? You guys feel like they're related much or not really? I think they should be. I think they should be. That's how, I mean, and I break in if you. Yeah, it's like I wouldn't say, I mean, obviously there's a difference in my training with bodybuilding and powerlifting, but not to the degree that people would think because even

when I was power lifting, I was still doing my accessories that power lifters like to call them, you know, bodybuilding hypertrophy movements. So yeah, I'm not squatting, benching or deadlifting right now. Am I doing some sort of pattern of that? Like, yes, I'm still doing a hack squat, some squat pattern. I'm still doing a pressing movement with a barbell. It's just on a Smith machine. I'm doing a hinge pattern even though it's like a belt squat RDL.

So I think that they're both very complimentary. They change around depending on what, and that's, it's going to change depending on what the goal is. My training is going to look a lot different going, you know, inside four weeks out of a power lifting me. than it would be four weeks inside of a bodybuilding prep. And I'm an analogy guy and like I always make like visual analogies just because it helps me think. And I also, it's just like painting a picture. But it's like if you look at, if you think about it in the form of like a pyramid, you have to have the foundation is having muscle, like having a system to be able to do the thing that you want.

And then if whether it's bodybuilding or powerlifting as the primary outcome, you have to have like I need, I want, let's say I want a bigger deadlift. I need to increase my, I need to improve my posterior chain strength. Okay. How do you do that? You lay the foundation at the bottom by creating tissue, increasing the potential. Because the more tissue that you have, the more available motor units you have to recruit to then send in the direction of peak strength. then you drive up that connection via maybe let's think about it from isolation work. Leg curl isn't going to directly increase your deadlift strength,

but it's going to increase that mental connection that you can generate between your brain and that musculature. And then if you can compartmentalize that and then transfer it to the deadlift, that's the skill component. And then that's like the top, the topmost portion of the pyramid, where maybe doing pause work, maybe doing speed work, maybe doing positional awareness work like eccentric work or even concentric work or whatever portioning the movement like a Boris Shiko style deadlift.

And then like getting it further and further focus to create the potential for you to do the thing, then refine the ability to do the thing and then put it together to actually do the thing. It all goes hand in hand again because like it's that same phrase that I said, before. Like if you take a step back, it's all the same physiology. We have the same muscle. We have the same brain. We have these crazy electrical signals happening in our body perpetually sending, hey, do this, hey, don't do that. Hey, contract this. Hey, don't contract that, whatever. But it's up to us to implement or to apply it in ultimately creative ways to get the desired outcome. And that's where, like, the programming is incredibly complimentary if you let it be. Like with Hunter, we're, uh, we're doing

Hunter's training right now. And she is in a developmental offseason for bodybuilding. But a very realistic chance. She might take a run at an all-time world record, but all-time world record bench press in the interim. Because it's the same physiology. We're desiring the same outcomes. It's just, okay, let's take eight weeks and pivot towards this focus because it's fun.

And it's cool. And it's another design. It's another secondary aspect. that we could lean into and have her buy more into the training, enjoy more of the training, and stay more locked in in the long-term sense. Is it optimal on paper? No.

Is it optimal for this situation? God damn fucking right. And it's going to be cool as hell. That's the thing, you know? What are myo reps? Well, we always, there's like different definitions that people say. Because it's the whole,

the myo reps that, got popularized by RP strength, I don't think that they're actually the version of myo reps. It's basically just it's rest pause with another phrase. It's just clustering it. So rather than being with with traditional rest pause approach like Dante Trudele, old school dog crap training, it's like go to failure for 12 to 15 reps. Rest like five to 10 seconds. Go to failure again, which is going to be like five to 10 reps. Rest five to 10 seconds.

Go to failure again. It's a way to kind of tow the line and stay closer in proximity to failure to create more opportunity to drive stimulus. But RPs is like, let's say there's a set of 20. It's like you can make it to rep 15, rest for a couple seconds, and then finish out that set of 20. So it's not necessarily. And that's different. Yeah. And that's their version of myoreps.

Yeah. But my original interpretation of myoreps. And this is the way I implement it is more, you guys know what cluster sets are where it's like, Like you do, whether it's a single, a double, or a triple, you do that and then rest for a moment and then continue to do triples or continue to do doubles. That is my interpretation and the way I put it together in my or in the form of myoreps where it's like go to, don't go to failure, but go to let's say like one to three RIR like reps left in the tank. pause for five to ten seconds and then simply do a cluster of a set of three or a set of four or a set of two rest again and continue to do those clusters until you either reach the number that you've attributed to like equate or to get to the total volume that you desire

or until you cannot conduct that same repetition number on the next set that's what the the brock jenkins the guy that we were talking about earlier the classic physique pro that's what he's currently getting slaughtered with on on it yeah it was like two plates yeah yeah you had him on uh like smith machine squats i think right he did it's it's it's his working work sets every other week currently uh it's a set of eight to 10 with like two ish reps in reserve just like hard enough to be stimulating and then cluster sets and you used his face as like this is how it should look dying, dude. Because it was, Brock is, Brock is going to be an Olympian. He's, he's, he's missed the Olympia by one spot last year. He's, he looked amazing. And when you, when you said he missed

the Olympia, I was like, what? Unbelievable. But the Olympia is the Olympia, right? He's, yeah, he's skinless, dude. He looks crazy. But, amazing. That's my show pony. He is. But, but, but he hit, it was like 315 for a set of 10. And then we peeled a 45 pound plate off. And it was just 2.25. And he did like six sets of I think in total and but it was applying an and that he was so freaking lean dude it's insane it's just funny to see like because bodybuilders do train hard but I feel like this is going to piss some people off every bodybuilder that that's like yeah I train hard and I train with them or I see they're training I'm like that's not like I could do more after this and so he's talking to us during this cluster site he's like there's so much like pressure in my head like you guys feel

this all the time I'm like yes this is powerlifting like a nutshell. How do you guys do? Like this, am I okay? And it's like, yeah, you have another set. Get under it again, bro. But, but he's, he's, he's an incredible, he's actually the director of business development at Dragonsleyer. He's been doing super cool stuff. Yeah. Out there. But he's a homie and he, he is an incredibly gifted athlete. And it's just thinking of, it's applying these like, again, taking the perspective or taking the step back because Brock didn't have a super successful end to his season. last year because they were simply chasing progressive overload and just hammer hammer hammer

and just train hard for the sake of training hard you're going to failure like die every session and if you don't you're a pussy and then he got rabdo and he's and he's pissing blood like four days out from the show and then now he's you know we're doing periodization he's like monitor he has someone monitoring his training which is me and joe and he's growing the most he ever has he's the healthiest he's ever been. And every blood marker in the green. Beautiful. Literally as of like a week and a half ago. And he's like, it's never been this good.

And I'm the biggest I've ever been. Oh my God. Why you gotta do him like that? Because Brock's my hobby, dude. Look, Brock, look. It's just, it's, you wonder fucking why, dude. It's like I, I just remember. And again, I'm super grateful for the opportunity because like he was having a really, really bad time at the end of the season last year. And we had like an hour long conversation on the turf.

And we're like, dude, just let us do it. No, because it wasn't you. This was just me. And we were having like a heart to heart. Yeah. And he's like talking about retiring. And I'm like, dude. And the dude's like 28.

28. Shut the fuck off. He just turned pro in 2022. Like with all the love that I have for you in my heart, shut up, dude. Like don't say that stuff because. You forgot to take a shot that we. Oh, dude.

Yeah, 100%. But it's easy to like get the blinders. on and get so laser focused that like it's because I mean I've been I've been there in my own experience like you try this one thing and you're like I believe this is going to be it this is going to work and then it doesn't and it's just like what do I freaking do but then you like he and I talked and we're like hey let's approach it a little bit differently and not not a bodybuilding coach but let's just think about the training in a little bit of a different way and and use the things that you're good at because he's great at dan damaging himself. Yeah. You can't just throw volume onto somebody who is like actually really, really skilled at training. It might work for some people or some body parts,

but guy like Brock, one or two working sets. And he's good. He's great. That's it. Cool. Formula one car. Get in.

Get the fuck out. Yeah, I don't think I've done any more than two working sets in years, to be honest. Yeah. But that's how it should be. And depending on the person. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

It's like someone who's newer at training. Yeah, three, four, maybe even sometimes five sets on certain muscle groups. But it's like if I did any, like if I did four sets on something like hack squat, that's all I'd be doing that day. It's just I'm too good at damaging myself. But somebody who doesn't have that experience, it's like, yeah, you should, you need to find where the line is. So you know where it is. So I want you guys to explain something. Because I think what you're saying can be counterintuitive.

Because first off, there are, we, earlier we talked. talked about discrepancies. For example, Eric Helms is a natural person, but he's a very good example of somebody who needs a lot of volume and working sets to be able to have the adaptations he's looking for. Then there are athletes like yourself. I'm in the same boat where like for me to actually need to build muscle, I don't need a lot of working sets. I can cause a lot of damage very quickly, right? And I don't recover from crazy high volumes. It trashes me, right? But people think, volume, as I get stronger, as I get better, I'm going to have to just increase my volume, right? So what's the nuance that people need to be paying attention to so that they don't just continue to increase their volume sets and reps as the years go by? And maybe another thing is, how does one identify that they're an X type of athlete? Because like you mentioned, Hunter is another great example. I think Hunter's kind of like Helms in a way, you know what I mean? So what are your thoughts there. It's so without I know and I know for because I actually just had a conversation

with a friend of mine named Mike who is very very big onto the like genetic side of things and he's like he's like this is the new genetic testing that we all need to do because it talks about like the actual potential for like motor unit conduction and the signaling process and how much actual not only not only metabolic damage you can do, but also like the capacity for the electrical impulse and that might dictate how much the magnitude. I don't know. Ungabunga. Again, I don't fucking know if that's the thing. It sounds right. Could be, maybe. But you got to get like something for your show where it's like the monkey that just goes like it's it's the sidebar. It's like Captain Caveman. I don't know if you got you're Captain Caveman. Bring up a picture of Captain

caveman again, Ryan. Oh, God. That shows your age because my dad would mention Caput. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't think anybody here would know who he was. Yeah. Yeah, he'd say, Angabunga. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. But, but I, there has to be some aspect of the actual potential of, like, whether it's like genetic or must or based on the muscular or based on like some epigenetic portion and you, because you can implement. impact it through training. I don't know. Yeah.

Maybe. But the way I look at it is just if someone can, the greater the degree someone can mentally connect to the musculature, the easier it will be in my experience for them to cause damage and cause stimulus. The mind-mussel connection is, is it real? And this is the whole discussion because, God damn, yes, it is. It might not be. No, it's not.

Show me the papers. It's talent pool. Just anecdotal evidence of a hundred thousand people. That's the reference. It's like, oh, maybe, maybe if Ronnie said or Dorian said or Jay said,

you should fucking squeeze, squeeze a little bit. You fucking stretch mediated hypertrophy. Shut do both for the love of fuck. For the, like I love, because I'm RP strength guy. I love it.

Yes, long extended range of motions, but sometimes maybe you just get a fucking pump. Because it's really fun. Because it's like you walk out of gym. You're like, I got a pump. but it was all short-range stuff,

but it was still fun good training day. Shut the fuck up. That's all it is. For the love of God. But, please, I don't know what the minutia is, what the actual evidence would be or what could be other than it's literally just a giant pool of anecdotal evidence of, hey, maybe if you,

maybe the greater you increase your potential for mind muscle connection, the greater the capacity by which you can damage that specific muscle, is what can occur. If you can damage that muscle more by connecting to it more, then you will probably find yourself in a position where you require less volume to stimulate and elicit the change that you want. So maybe, again, it's the same,

take the step back to see the larger picture rather than hyper-fixating on one aspect of a complex system and saying, oh, if I increase the height of my floor, my ceiling may get higher. and this is where like this is my whole thing with programming decisions and like exercise selections with bodybuilding, maybe guys,

we could get more out of our training if we didn't just fucking train like bodybuilders for the entire year. Maybe if we spent part of a developmental off season and focus on specific mind muscle connection or even rate of force development like dynamic effort work for a bodybuilder. I love doing that for some of the guys that I work with

because what does that do? it increases the capacity by which you can contract the muscle and then ultimately makes you have to work less fucking hard so you can send more adaptations to the desired tissue rather than just beating the fuck out of yourself perpetually and focus on recovery the number of exercises if you're doing a lap pull down with a specific grip and that feels really good it's like maybe just stay there for a few extra sets instead of trying to change the angle of this and this handle that is even more important the longer you've been lifting yeah the older that you get I think If you find, if you, anybody listening, you find something in the gym that feels good, don't be afraid to stay on whatever machine or whatever thing it is that you're doing for as many sets as your heart desires for that day.

That's what I do when I have like my Dload weeks. If I'm doing like a hamstring curl and I'm like, okay, this feels really good. The weight is lighter. But I use my D loads as not just a relax. This is just a pump session. I'm just like, okay, how can I find the best connection here? Then maybe let me take that technique into my next. week my training is back online.

So if I, let's say I have five exercises that I'm doing, but hamstring feels really fucking good and I do two extra sets, I'll just take away sets from somewhere else and then just move on with my day. It's like that one day where I'm using this as literally data collection, I could say, is not going to detriment my training or my muscle growth over a period of time because I'm still coming out of that session. Even though the intensity is downregulated, I'm still coming out of that with a positive. because I'm learning how to connect better.

I learned a new way to contract my hamstrings or have my foot at a certain angle or whatever. It's just learning to be intuitive with your training and not afraid to just fucking hang out somewhere. Yeah. And that skill, that's the skill perspective of training where it's like with the powerlifting, the skill is at the top of the pyramid.

Maybe with bodybuilding, that takes more of a position in the bottom of the pyramid because if you can't, if I looked at a bodybuilder and they told me that they can't mentally connect to their lats on a lap pull-down,

you want to know what I wouldn't have them do, lap pull-downs, or I would focus to make them better at it, but it's like, hey, if we only had eight weeks, it's like, fuck it, what can you connect with? Let's do that. That's the skill component. It's tapping in and connecting to the movement.

Like you wouldn't have, you wouldn't have a, I don't know, another analogy, but it's like you wouldn't have, you wouldn't have someone do something that they aren't getting anything from just because on paper it's optimal to have up to six exercises per sessions with like 15 sets across every, I don't care. You just do what you feel good doing, what is going to get that desired outcome, and run with it. So Joe and Beani, I'm curious about this too. You know, Joe, you've still obviously lifting, right? You don't have any specific goals as a powerlifter or bodybuilder right now, but you've been venturing into other aspects of movement

where you've started to see some inefficiencies, right? Now, with those inefficiencies and what you've learned, the things that you've continued to learn so far as you've been exploring, what do you think if you were speaking to younger Joe, what type of ideas would you have given him things to maybe add into his daily repertoire of movement? Because the reason why I ask you, this is because many lifters who take things to the highest level, there are adaptations that happens to the body. There's a level of stiffness that happens. There's a level of tension you need to create. And with that, some people have pain that they think is just going to be a part of the process. I think some of that doesn't have to be, but what are your thoughts? What would you add? Maybe

what are you currently doing right now that you, you maybe haven't done in the past? What would you do? How do you think about that? I don't know if I would really give myself any advice to be honest, because all the stuff that I did led me to be the athlete that I am today. And I think I have a kind of unique career because like I've been competing at the highest level for eight years. And I really haven't had any like injuries. Like yeah, I have aches and pains. My knee kind of gets fucked up every once in a while. My, my SI joint.

What? Not going to. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm an aging athlete. It's going to happen at some point possibly. Who knows? But I have been very intuitive in my own training and the fact that I,

have never really pushed through pain. I've scrapped squat sessions completely if my knee feels off. I'm just not going to do it. That's important though. Most people don't do that. And a lot of, dude, sorry, don't do that. Whether it's pride or ego or I just need to get the shit done.

It's like my motto has always been live to lift another day. And I am totally fine pushing this squat session back one or two days. If that means I'm going to, one, not hurt myself. And two, have better time. rather than trying to force a square peg into a round hole, getting just endlessly frustrated within a session and making me hate what I do. So I think I have a unique perspective on that.

And one that's wildly different from yours. And you do. And that's why, like I said earlier, I am excited. I know you're joking, but not really, but kind of, where you're like, oh, I hope not, like 45 years old. But it's like this is a lifelong endeavor. And you have done, like you, Briani, have done a lot of things

better than me. All of my peers. Like Mark in Seema, I don't know, but like you've done, you've, whether it's intuitively or like by actual conscious decision, you have made a lot of really good

decisions when it comes to your own training with how, not conservative, but how like present you've stayed in the decision making process. I also think that like the best athletes in the world have the shortest memory too. So is this one SWAT session or deadlift session really going to negate this entire 16 week prep it doesn't suck in the

moment yeah but if i keep carrying that into my other sessions i'm going to have more of a greater degree to get hurt not enjoy what i'm doing which is this is a hobby sport i would hope that i'm having fun and at some point when you're chasing things that people have never done it's not fucking fun like bodybuilding i don't care what anybody helps you it's not fun it's cool 16 weeks out but when you're inside of that eight weeks that shit sucks yes But that's just, I don't know, that's my perspective on it. So I don't, I, I, I love sport. I love competing.

I don't love it more than how I feel in my daily life. And, and that's why, like I am, because speaking about what I would give to myself, I don't even have to imagine what would I have myself do if I could go back 10 years in the past, because that's exactly what I have her do in powerlifting, because it's not just, staying in bilaterally loaded up and down planes. Let's rotate. Let's move. Let's do some variably loaded resistance stuff like the wingy blingy, the oscillating stuff. That as soon as she gives me the go ahead, and I love whatever she's doing, like I'm so glad that you're in bodybuilding and I can't wait to see you kick ass and qualify for the Olympia one day,

but when you are like, I'm going to get back on the powerlifting platform, I'm like, let's go because I have so much stuff to think about and give to you because there's so many aspects or so many like ways to approach low hanging fruit that a lot of people don't that I think will it may not like it's the same conversation of like driving up mental connection to the muscle driving creating greater potential it's not increasing the ceiling but it's elevating the floor and thereby increasing the ceiling in the long run I will never go to a doctor ever again about my general health. All they want to do is put you on pills.

Really well said there by Dana White. Couldn't agree with them more. A lot of us are trying to get jacked and tan. A lot of us just want to look good, feel good. And a lot of the symptoms that we might acquire as we get older, some of the things that we might have, high cholesterol or these various things, it's amazing to have somebody looking at your blood work

as you're going through the process, as you're trying to become a better athlete, somebody that knows what they're doing. They can look at your cholesterol. They can look at the various markers that you have and they can kind of see where you're at and they can help guide you through that. And there's a few aspects too where it's like, yes,

I mean, no, no shades of doctors, but a lot of times they do want to just stick you on medication. A lot of times there is supplementation that can help with this. Merrick Health, these patient care coordinators are going to also look at the way you're living your lifestyle because there's a lot of things you might be doing that if you just adjust that, boom,

you could be at the right levels, including working with your testosterone. And there's so many people that I know that are looking for, they're like, hey, should I do that? They're very curious. And they think that testosterone is going to all of a sudden kind of turn them into the Hulk. But that's not really what happens. It can be something that can be really great for your health

because you can just basically live your life a little stronger, just like you were maybe in your 20s and 30s. And this is the last thing to keep in mind, guys. When you get your blood work done at a hospital, they're just looking at like these minimum levels. At Merrick Health, they try to bring you up to ideal levels for everything you're working with.

Whereas if you go into a hospital and you have 300 nanograms per deciliter of test, you're good, bro, even though you're probably feeling like shit. At Merrick Health, they're going to try to figure out what things you can do in terms of your lifestyle. And if you're a candidate, potentially TRT. So these are things to pay attention to

get you to your best self. And what I love about it is a little bit of the back and forth that you get with the patient care coordinator. They're dissecting your blood work. It's not like if you just get this email back and it's just like, hey, try these five things. Somebody's actually on the phone with you

going over every step and what you should do. Sometimes it's supplementation, sometimes it's TRT, and sometimes it's simply just some lifestyle habit changes. All right, guys, if you want to get your blood work checked and also get professional help from people who are going to be able to get you

towards your best levels, head to Merrickhealth.com and use code power project for 10% off any panel of your choice. Like different planes of movement, moving in rotation, generating, like generating force in compromised positions. Like even with- Let's give some like applicable examples for the people who are like, well, what would I, what could I think about?

Right? Because conceptually, this is great. Like, but some people for the concept would maybe appreciate something. You know what I mean? So the rope flow stuff, the wet, wax coiled cord. landmine training, throwing, anything that is going to get you out of the frontal plane and up and down and getting into transverse and sagittal. So like let's do some stuff where you're pivoting with your hips.

Like med ball rotational slams, things like that. Let's do some pliometrics. Let's do things where our feet leave the ground where we have. They don't have to be box jumps, guys. Right. They could be. They could be. But everyone just wants to jump high.

Right. So some you aren't ready to jump high. That is, that's a huge thing that I get on all my people because I'll give them box jumps. And they'll, I always have video attached, but they never fucking watch it because they're just like,

I want to jump really high. And then they jump high and they're picking their legs up. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. It's about forced development and landing. Let's keep our legs straight. And they're like, well, that's boring because you're only jumping like 12 inches off the ground.

It's like, then just get stronger and jump higher. You fucking idiot. I don't know. But it's, it's it's thinking outside of the box and looking at it from okay not just what is my desired outcome. What's the thing across the finish line? But what's the physiology that's going to get me there? And also set me up to keep doing that for a long period of time.

And also prepare me for the life that comes after because that's where I am so happy that you have made the decisions that you've made. And then also I can give you, because I mean shit, I tell you stuff. And you're like, I'm not going to fucking do that because I don't want to do that. but it's like I still am presented with the opportunity to be like, hey, maybe think about this stuff a little bit a little bit. Because it will better help set you up as an athlete. And even something as simple as like the power lifters out there who are perpetually focused on like movement optimization or like movement economy where it's like I need to shorten my range of motion to make it so that I'm as strong as possible. Yeah, in the competition context, hell yeah, dude, do it. Sumo deadlifts. Like wide, wide grip bench, I don't care. Do whatever you got to do.

But when it comes to the accessory work, RP strength execution, slow, control, extended range of motion. Don't even look at that stuff as I'm training the musculature. I'm training the range of motion to handle it. It's loaded stretching. That's the simplest thing that I applied like the last since like 2019 forward. And I swear to God, that kept a lot. Like, that kept me in the game a lot longer than I would have been had I not done any of that. So when it comes to steroids, we've mentioned it a couple times.

There's some different things to think about when a woman takes steroids. And we haven't had a lot of women on the show that have been in your position. So what are some things to think about if a female is going to go that route, if they are going to use performance-enhancing drugs? dosage and duration and also one thing that people don't think about is repeated exposure because when you continuously take I don't know let's say anavar is a very like I hate the word female friendly because it's literally all male sex hormones that you're putting in your body there is no female friendly steroid I don't care what people say and you cannot dictate what side effects are not even side effects are literally the drug working that you're going to get

so for example anavar I can't run it for more than six weeks without having sides now, whereas before I could run it for 12 weeks. With powerlifting, though, I run drugs quite differently than I do with bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is kind of like a slow burn where you're on drugs from anywhere from, I mean, it depends. 20 weeks, 16 weeks, whatever, how long ever your prep is going to be. And you, you know, it's, I wouldn't say it's a, with powerlifting, it's more a lot of one thing where bodybuilding, it's a lot of a different shit that you're on.

You're on like seven different fucking things. It's insane. but with powerlifting we kind of like periodize the drugs with the training so as I got better throughout the years I would do one less drugs and for even less time so a lot of people will get into prep 16 weeks out 12 weeks out and start running drugs well instead of doing that mine's kind of carrying the upswing of the fatigue so when I start to feel like shit at like that eight week out mark it's like you carry you use the drugs as kind of an upswing to take you out of that and then run you into the actual peak.

So it's literally like putting rocket boosters on a car that's already going pretty fucking fast. Gotcha. And leveraging a lot of the non-endrogenics to get when the performance-based outcome is the desire, you can use some of, like, whether it's the carnitine data, injectable ATP, a lot of the stuff that is yet

theoretical science, mechanistic science, if this, then that, I can't give you a paper that says like, oh, they pin this and they immediately got strong, But I can give you a really solid n equals one at the abs pro when she deadlifted 611 pounds, and I stuck both of her butt cheeks with 2CC of ATP at the same time. And it got her the deadlift. I don't know if that was exactly it.

But it, whether it was placebo or actual like mechanistic outcome, it allowed her to get more out of the day while not exposing her to the severe degree of antigens that other. So we haven't mentioned this on this podcast before, but people are shooting direct ATP? Yes, yeah. And then what is that, is that kind of like bypassed the whole creb cycle, just boom, just gives you energy?

Theoretically, yes. Does it feel like anything? I don't really feel much when I'm on meat day. It's kind of like lights are on, nobody's home. Good point. The whole theoretical prospect is like, by the property of the diffusion, it literally goes directly into the bloodstream

and into the cell membrane, and then you can utilize it as cellular energy. Or there could be some placebo and who fucking knows. you know, but energy, you know, hey, just trying to like,

but with some of the drugs, too, like, with females, you have to look at, like, total milligram weekly dosage.

Yes. And you can also prioritize the day that you take those things. So if I'm on an oral, let's say it's anavar or whatever, you don't have to take anavar every single day to get the benefits of it.

That's when you can do it. Like, we would do that on my high priority day. So like on my squat day and my deadlift day. So instead of taking 10 milligrams every day, leading to 70 total milligrams a week, I'm, taking 15, which is less than half of that per week. So 30 milligrams a week total of, of,

oral usage, because there's no point. Why would I take Anavar on a rest day? Like, especially for something performance based, not when I'm talking about physique goals. If, if and only if, though, there is an HRT component. Yes. Into this, because that is something, that's something that we lean on or not lean on, but it's like this is, it's not just like, guesswork and throwing darts at a dartboard, we're actively getting blood work, even if it's just the sex hormones getting pulled on a very frequent basis. What's frequent? Like could be four weeks, just quite literally to see exactly where things are lying

because you think about what is, what's one of the biggest like negative outcomes that a woman could have being on steroids? It's like virulization and turning more masculine, experiencing like virulizing sides, like hair growth, general growth, hair loss, whatever. But that isn't just always going to be, like sometimes it will, depending on the compound, but it's usually not just going to be from the implementation of the compound. It's the ratio that results between the testosterone, the estrogen, the free testosterone,

and everything occurring internally. So with, like sometimes if we keep, because Briani is on an HRT dose, during this time of, and this is tiny compared to the male doses, but one milligram of test propionate Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So three total to keep her baseline testosterone levels at a normal. It's not even super physiological. It's just normal. But then that allows her, because this is exogenous testosterone,

that allows her to play the card of an anavar on a specific day without negatively impacting her own natural testosterone production. If you weren't on the HRT or if you were a guy doing an, this is why oral only cycles don't work or don't work with like positive health outcomes in the long run. You're talking about for men? For men, because if you were to take an oral steroid like that five days a week, you're completely suppressing your natural testosterone production and not replacing it fully.

So she is replacing it HR replacement therapy, replacing it entirely and then freeing up the decision-making process and then all the while doing that while keeping eyes on the actual internals so she isn't experiencing the negative the negative not even side effects but negative effects of being on male sex hormones and the resulting swings in hormones for women are any of the new peptides that are coming out viable options versus some of the typical stuff like anavar that is you know taken within bodybuilding and physique sports and I'm really curious about this because like there's a love there's a high level of care that you both put into this making sure that you're doing this safely you know and there are things that

you're okay with and the things that you aren't okay with but I've my girlfriend does pro bikini she's an IFB pro bikini athlete and I have seen coaches just I'm just it's shocking that there are woman taking advice from some of these really high level coaches. I'm just like, yo, they are fucking you up. And it's just, it's wild. So with that being said, are there new options out there that are like, people should be thinking about that? Maybe they're not.

I would, I struggle with, I struggle with like should, should be thinking about. Because it's all, like, should people be thinking about taking the PEDs? I can't even say that responsibly because none, because none, because none of, because none of this shit is good for you ultimately. And so much of the new side of peptides, like specifically like the stuff that we're probably going to talk about are like the mitochondrial up regulators, like the SS31, MOTC, SLOPP 332,

like all of these things that are like, oh, it's going to create like mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. Like everybody remembers it from third grade. And it's like, you're going to burn fat quicker. You're going to burn energy or utilize energy quicker. And it's like, okay. but we're not again it's that simplification of a really complex organism into one component of it and it's like what happens if we put fucking gnaz in that forever i don't even know if i would go like more towards the i don't know because if i would have known about carnitine coline that's growth hormone and even insulin i would have probably done

drugs much later than if i were as educated as i was now because you can really leverage those things to make some really awesome shit happen. All of those that you mentioned are non-veralizing. Correct. Yeah, they're non-endogenic. Non-angi-genic. Yeah. That's the avenue that if I could have people take away from like any type of PED

discussion, use the non-androgenic PEDs, not the peptides, but the non-andro-PEDs, like carnitine, glutathione, growth hormone and insulin. Yeah. If you tap into those and then put. that into a situation where you're controlling your diet, you're training hard, you're recovering adequately. Is insulin is super anabolic? You are going to push the needle in a more positive direction.

And then you think about the perspective of women. It's like people are so terrified of, and I'm not endorsing this, I'm not telling anybody to do this stuff, but it's like there's a lot of taboo around taking insulin and people like, oh, I don't want to kill myself. If insulin was that scary, where are all the diabetics that have overdosed and died? from taking insulin. Where? Show me.

Somebody pull up data. There aren't any. There's built-in metabolic processes to stop that from occurring. And you have to go out of your way and be like impressively ignorant to really damage yourself with insulin, specifically using it in the way

that would be viable for a hypertrophy-focused athlete or a strength-focused athlete. And if you feel really sick, you just eat a bunch of cereal. Just drink some juice. You'll be fine. Eat a bowl of stupid. But even with this implementation, like if I was coaching someone or did a consultation with someone, they're like, how would I do this?

It's like you take one to two to maybe four at most, maybe six, I don't know, depending on the size of the person, whatever. But a small, small dose because one IU, two IU, that's one tick mark or two tick marks. Baby, baby tiny on an insulin needle, take that part of your pre-workout or your post-workout this is not advice. No, no, no, no, that's what I was saying. Remember, we had something at the beginning of this podcast that mentioned this is all, you know what I mean? But it's like if someone were to do that and if that was the implementation of taking that amount, you do it specifically with food.

So you're creating a self-catch. You're not going to find yourself in a situation where you're going hypoglycemic and you're messed up or whatever. And you shouldn't have that option as an option even because you told me going into this situation. and everything was locked down. So you have adequate pre-workout nutrition, you have an intra-workout drink, and you have a post-workout meal plan. You are setting yourself metabolically up

to be more anabolic in a positive sense, and you're adequately supplying the fuel to do that in the most optimal way. Same timing with like GH. It's like, do you want to burn a little bit more fat? Okay, maybe pair it with some fast and cardio in the morning. Do you want to recover better? Okay, maybe take it at night.

And it's like, but you tell, people you tell people this and there's just that accompanying taboo of oh my god i'm gonna i'm gonna go into a diabetic coma and die and it's like okay yeah that sounds scary but is that actually going to happen or if you do the thing in and again this is drug use so it's how can i say it responsible but if you do it in the responsible and measured way it's very very difficult to mess up but a lot of the times women and men and even the guys with like sarms the selective androgen antigen receptor modulators. It's like it's easier to take a pill.

It's easier to do that. And you can justify it better. But then you get so many individuals in their late 30s, early 40s, late 40s, 50s. Oh shit. My blood pressure's high. Oh, I just had a fucking heart attack. Oh, I'm having this. I'm having that.

And if that's rather than even the training stuff, if I could wave a magic wand and go back to Joe Sullivan. in like 2014 when he made the jump from USAPL to untested side, I wouldn't even mess with the training. Do your thing, dude. Have fun because I had fun. But when it comes to the PED implementation, lean into the non-energenic stuff, so much more because you can make so much more positive progress

that you weren't even fucking aware of and not have to have some negative stuff happen at a later date because I wasn't thinking about it. And then you turn 30. And some of your friends die. And some of your friends have serious health complications. And it's like... Did you have any ramifications yourself?

I had to really dig myself out of a hole for like over a year. Okay. And had I not change direction around like the same... Not probably beforehand, because this was when I was working with Jake. But had I not change direction at that period of time, I probably would be a lot worse off. because that was that period of time where I was like very irresponsibly

using Adderall, using just anything to push the needle in the way that I knew how rather than taking the step back. This is why I have the perspective of like step back look at the whole situation because Adderall and Tren. You mentioned you had fun. I didn't know you had that much fun.

Hell of a combo, dude. Jesus. Not recommending it. Unga bonga to that. Unga bunga, bro. Fuck yeah, dude. Yeah, but holy cow. It was a party.

I was, uh, have you guys ever, uh, cross past a little too much on like prepping for stuff to where you're, uh, I don't know, either one of you agitated from like taking gear and we argue all the time. Not all the time, but I see you guys in, in person. I see you with like friendly banter top of trash to each other. But it's us all day. Just, uh, you know, the, the pressure of prepping for a competition or prepping for a bodybuilding show.

Did you guys ever both prep for stuff? something and you're like this is not a great idea uh we did the showdown together yeah and that was fine like we prep fine together it's just if we're just saying like two people doing it at the same time maybe it's just i don't know if i would want to do it again not because it was bad a bad experience overall because it was awesome training together our shit lined up it was we were in a groove but at the showdown there was two days and the men were day one and the women were day two and i fucked up and I was so worried about him and I wanted to see how he did that I stayed at the

meat a little bit too long. Because I kept telling her like, leave, go, go home. I was like, you're about to hit a world record and he did and it was awesome and I would be so sad if I wasn't there. But then that also bled into me staying for bench and then me staying for deadlift when I should have been at home. She just cares too much. Yeah,

and I just, I did well. I mean, I still got second overall in the meat, but I didn't do as well as I could have if maybe I would have chilled out. And that's that's the thing. Like, I don't think And correct me if because we've, we've had, like, you're, you're a bitch sometimes. I'm a dickhead sometimes. Like, we're both very similar in a lot of ways.

I just thought the key and peels skit. I'm like, this man is a savage. I can't even whisper it. He just said straight up on the mic. But it's true because we cover his lips. We butt heads. There's a lot of times where we butt heads and it's like, hey, baby, you're being an asshole.

And then she'll be like, you're being an ass. I know. Or you're annoying the shit out of me. Yeah. And it's just there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that. But it's never been like because of prep or like she's in prep and we can't do this together. Like you said it best.

And I really do think this is one of the coolest parts. And one of the reasons why, again, I know it's selfish and I'm not telling you what to do. But why I love coaching her through body or through powerlifting because we're just the, we're the fucking team, dude. We're in a flow state. Like, oh my God, I think like the American pro too, when you broke the record for the first time, that was an amazing experience. But if we could have had like a drone following us for the abs pro, we were having a ball, bro. Like literally she's, she's just in it and I'm just loading everything. We're doing like little handshakes and I'm like, go like yeah, you know, like just fucking hooting and hollering.

And it was so much fun. Like we do our best work together. like confidently and genuinely. It's like we argue and fight with just normal relationship shit. Like our communication styles don't line up sometimes. I'm a dickhead man who doesn't listen. She's rude to me and it makes me sad. And I'm like,

over the course of time in a relationship where it's like, one, I just know how he feels before he even, he just, I'm so in tune to how he feels. He'll just be like hanging out. I'm like, what's wrong? He'd be like, God,

how do you like know it's like nothing? It's like, It's in his body language, but I think that's, we've had to, because we communicate very differently, but it's also like learning, even through that, it's just communicating even more and saying, like, hey, I only have like 30% today or, hey, I'm just in a shitty mood right now. So if I am snappy, it is what it is, just let me do my thing. And it's being able to, like, confidently communicate with that and me just saying, hey, I'm in a shitty mood and I don't want to explain it.

I don't even know why I'm in a shitty mood. I just am. And that is like I actively need to get better at that because like as the guy, I always or not even as the guy. It's just from my perspective. I've always been like the problem solver or like I'm going to handle it. I got to handle it. And it's like there's always that like speed where I'm like I need to handle it now.

And she's really good at it. But it's something that I've struggled with and even like bodybuilding help me get there even for even more so. where it's like identifying, I don't have that right now. I still support you. I still love you. But we're going to fight if this conversation continues.

So let's just circle back in 30 minutes or in an hour or tonight or let me do this thing. And it's just, it's figuring it out. But that's the takeaway that I think is like so cool about our relationship is that the theme

is like that figure it out. It's like we have always figured it out and we've always, whether it's through the athletics or the professional side or like just us being in a relationship, it's like, no, okay, this fucking sucks, but let's talk about it and let's sort it out and like leave the ego over here and just like, you want, ultimately like this is what you want. Ultimately this is what you want. Shut up then and just fucking do it, guys. Come on, you know, and it's just that theme. So. I hate to switch because like hearing about your own relationship, even my mind. eyes right now. I'm just like, this is so fucking beautiful. Hey, but let's let's go back real quick because I want to come back to the what you're mentioning about peptides because we've talked to people about peptides on the show before and I always try to see if I can dig out from people

the layer of caution. And it seemed that when you were mentioning peptides, you were like, there should be some caution there. And I don't see many people talking about that. When I hear most people talk about peptides, it's like they're this magic thing. You're not going to have any It's like it's gonna give you these results and now So I'm curious what are you thinking about because I just want I what are you thinking about when it comes to the peptide conversation again and this is the The benefit this is the benefit of perspective even if that perspective was because of my own detriment It's very easy to justify something in the moment if there are no negatives at that current moment We have no goddamn idea

what this stuff is going to do to people, to us, to anybody on a long enough time scale. And if you take a step back and you look at the whole physiology and the whole system, one example, because I don't know if this is the case, but this is the biggest reason why I talk to people about this, and I encourage them not to take BPC 157 perpetually. Because what is the name, body protective compound, 157? It works systemically. It has effects locally if you inject it close to the tissue, but it works systemically.

Let's take a step back and think about it for a second. What is happening perpetually? Our bodies are doing stuff. We're damaging. We're causing adaptations. We're accepting stress, responding to stimuli, and adapting to said stress and stimuli. One example of that is, let's say. I train my biceps.

I take BPC. Maybe the healing at which that which occurs at the bicep happens at a greater rate. What is on a large scale when you take enough step enough of a step back? What's a muscular contraction that is happening right now for all of us? Our heights are beating. What is a huge issue that people on high doses of androgens and people that train and people that cause adaptive stimulus to the system need to be concerned about at a later date in their life. Cardiac health.

What happens if I introduced body protective compound that works systematically and causes a greater rate of healing and what happens when healing occurs, growth occurs, to that system? And then I encourage that to occur at a greater rate in an already enabled environment where cardiac health will be an issue, perhaps more left ventricular hypertrophy will occur. Maybe cardiac thickening of maybe greater degrees of angiogenesis. One of BBC's biggest claims to fame is angiogenesis. You create new blood vessels. That's not always a good thing.

That's not a good thing if that occurs on the heart wall. What happens if we do this on a long enough time scale? I don't know. Do I want to find out? We only have one heart. that scares the shit out of me. I genuinely worry. Like to this day that this stuff is so common and in so much regular habitual use that we are creating another generation of negative cardiac events that we are going to see people fucking die or have resting heart rates in the hundreds with blood pressures of 180 over 100 and walk into further cardiac issues, kidney issues, vasculature issues, whatever. in a decade. I have no idea,

but if you take a step back and start to think in the mechanistic perspective, the theoretical perspective, and just like, what happens if we apply this shit and think about it in an unabunga way,

one plus one equals two. Fuck. I don't know. Pair that with caffeine, pair that with stimulant use, pair that with the biohacking perspective. And probably some testosterone. Everybody's like,

I need to optimize. I need to optimize. So I'm going to do my NAD. and I'm going to do my new pep and I'm going to do my BPC. A lot of the people that are optimizing with that shit haven't even optimized the basics. Just go to bed. How about you just follow a diet for more than two fucking weeks?

Eat a vegetable, you fucking idiot. Like, why do we need peptides to sleep and do all this shit? It's like, how about you just like meditate and like create a good bedtime routine and maybe don't look at screens for an hour before bed and just basic shit before we're spending all this fucking money because all these peptides are wildly expensive if you use them.

If you're not sponsored by you. I'm a fucking peptide company and all this. We're affiliated with peptide companies. I love them as tools. Tools. Tools in a toolbox. Fuck. Yeah. It's like I, they're cool in certain contexts when you have all of this shit,

all the basics like mastered. But even then it's like I was doing peptides for a little bit like MOTC and SS3. And one, I hate needles. I hate injecting myself daily. And two, I'm starting to get histamine reactions to them. So I have fucking welts all over my body.

It's like I'm not doing. I'm just going to eat the food. I'm to sleep. I'm in train hard. That's what's worked for me for the past 15 years. Why do I need to change it? And yeah, maybe somebody is going to have the extra 1%.

And that's just what it is. I'm willing to do. There's things I'm willing to do and things that I'm not willing to do. And pick, like, injecting myself with like five different fucking things every day just to be better or optimize this just isn't worth it to me. Get out of our sleep. Did Ronnie Coleman have fucking SS31? Like, it's fine.

But maybe he did. It didn't tell anybody. It was in the barbecue sauce. I think, you know, if you think about, you know, a buzzword all the time is like fat burning. People that love hearing something burns fat or something helps with energy, mitochondrial energy or all these things. But then you kind of forget there's always a biological tax to everything. And if your system's going to be running faster, then maybe your system is causing more oxidative stress. Like maybe you are burning more stuff.

and then then you would think oh then maybe if i'm doing that then maybe i need more antioxidants to deal with the free radical you know it's like it's just like an ongoing thing and it's like how how many concoctions of things are you going to try to stay ahead uh from doing these things and maybe these things have maybe they can be great and maybe they can be great for utilizing for specific reasons for specific times but maybe we need to be careful since we don't really know what the outcome of these said things are going to be. You got all these GLP ones and some of these other things. And your body's not supposed to burn fat all the time.

You know, people are like, oh, you have this kind of like fat burning thing going on in the background 24-7. You're like, I don't know if that's a great idea to have that all the time. So I guess we'll find out. And there's a reason why the body doesn't want to do stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely. And then it just comes back to the whole adage of like work. smarter not harder where how like even with the training we talked about we let's make it more efficient let's get more out of it so we have to put less into it maybe when it comes to the peptides or even the

non-endrogenic interventions maybe just strategically implement them like put it in rather than throwing in a clenbuterol at uh to get through a bodybuilding prep then maybe think about utilizing some of the mitochondrial stuff to drive more fat burning when you're already in a fat loss phase and that's the primary objective, not just for the soccer mom who's trying to lose some weight. Maybe we show them the fundamentals, like the actual hard stuff. With the GLP, it's not even the GLP that's making you like lose weight. It's a calorie deficit. You're just not eating as much. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're just able to control the fork. Yeah, it's important to understand that the GLP ones don't have anything necessarily that's helping you to burn more calories or to burn fat. I guess you could say maybe

red at true tide because the glucagon but that would be a small amount and all and only occurring if you're in the caloric deficit right and none of those things have any properties in them some people thought originally that red at true tide would maybe have less muscle loss but now there's research that came out that shows that had more muscle loss i'm sure you can circumvent that if you have some testosterone and if you take in protein and if you're lifting and all these things but again it's like you just keep kind of you're adding and subtracting and adding and subtracting and eventually there's going to be a price to pay. Yeah.

I don't know. We've, we've become so obsessed, obsessed with being healthy that all this shit is unhealthy. And, and there are, you know, like metabolic things that happen,

women with PCOS, just different things that people have. But if you just simplify it, it's like, what do you do when your dog gets too fat? You feed it a little less and you walk it more. Yeah.

Just literally increase your activity. Or your dog will just fast when your dog's messed up. You ever notice that? It's like, oh, just won't eat. Eating.

Yeah. And they don't eat for, like two days, you're super sad about it, but they seem to be. And then they're fine. Healing themselves. Yes, but you know, you don't need, like people have been losing weight without pharmaceuticals for years. It is possible.

It's as simple as walking 10 K steps a day. If you have a demanding job, it's like maybe just take the stairs, park a little farther, go to the grocery store instead of getting Instacart delivery. It's like there's so many little ways that you can hack being more active. You just have to be a little bit more creative and actually have the way. wherewithal to actually fucking do it. And hack eating less because like so many people would be like, intermittent fasting is so fucking stupid.

It's not sustainable. It's not the thing. And it's not the best. And it's like, okay, it's not the best. But did it help that person? It's the one thing that's calm with my food noise because I can eat a lot. Yeah. It's like,

if you have a huge meal to look forward to that may help you be a little bit more here. Yeah. And it's like you, it's just, it's the perpetual. It's why it's why everybody at this table probably. hates the word optimal because it's like it's it's not optimal okay it might not be optimal but it's a pretty good decision for that particular situation yeah and come on like it's it's it's

it's about what what works like we're all ultimately looking to elicit a similar response for an adaptation we want to build more muscle we want to lose fat we want to get better at the sport we play we want to do we want to live longer we want to be healthier who actually is going to give a dam if we do it with this minutia focused avenue and it's the most optimal or this person does it in a way that they really enjoy and that they really have fulfillment through doing and they're validated by and maybe that guy gets five percent less to the finish line but they still cross or they cross five percent later or whatever but they still cross is anybody really going to be upset is is do we really want to build our whole identity around that

Or maybe we should just focus that we're all having all of this stuff in common. And let's think about how we can get there together. Kumbaya. Power of friendship. Yay. I don't know. Where can people find you guys? Where can they learn more about you?

Instagram. That's really all I got. Briani T. You have a YouTube channel together. Oh, yeah. We have a YouTube channel together. And I guess I just started my own YouTube because I'm kind of like, I want to do some of my own stuff. She's more superstar.

She's like that she's actually doing stuff. I'm just training and helping people. In the world of bodybuilding and I guess powerlifting too, especially in the larger muscle divisions of like women's physique and women's bodybuilding, there's not a lot of coverage on that. It's a lot of like the bikini, the figure girls, fit model, whatever. And it's like if we want more opportunities for shows, sponsorships, it's like we have to be the ones to put ourselves out there.

So yeah, you can find me on YouTube. just look up Briani Terry and you'll see videos of me dying in the gym and just talking about trials and tribulations and good workouts, bad workouts, like my mindset, things like that. So yeah. And for me, it's the aOD collective.com. That's where we have all of our supplements, all of our other products and whatnot along with my coaching and Briani's coaching as well. And it's Joe Sullivan underscore AOD on Instagram. And the same on YouTube. where we do stuff together, and it's either us training together, me training people, or us talking about nothing and reacting to things and getting yelled at by people for reacting

to videos because they don't like that apparently. But it's cool. Both her and I are chronically online like everybody else in this space. So we're not hard to get a hold of. Where one is, the other is closely following. Did you make a supplement or something like that? You were telling me too? Yeah, we have them in the backpack outside if we want to go grab those.

But it isn't released yet. But we have an elector-like supplement that has powderized honey in it. So it's a little, yeah, you'll love it. Yeah, we have it here. Can I go grab it? Yeah, yeah. Powderized honey. It's very hard to do, apparently.

It's like, how do you, I got a question that I forgot to ask you. How do you deal with, you know, post show like you, you know, you did the show and you're lean and you feel great and you take the pictures and then you got to fluff back up again? Dude, it's. I mean, it's hard for a dude. Yeah. But it's maybe even more challenging, maybe for a woman. I think I have a, like, a unique perspective because I feel like I started my career, focusing on like what my body could do rather than what it could look like.

So while I do love the shreds, but to a certain point when I'm in prep, just asking her if she gets sad from getting heavier after the body feeling show. At a certain point in prep, I almost don't like how I look because it's like I lost my curves. I have a fucking 2 by 4 for an ass. Like it's just like, it's just not very womanly because I'm like so shredded. So I almost to a point look forward to that because I like looking how I do in offseason if I don't get too fat and if I don't fucking eat too much. Shake it, shake it.

Sorry. Shake it now. Let's say. Come here. And I just get to be strong again, which I really enjoy doing because once I'm in prep, it's like 40 fucking pounds is heavy and that's kind of demoralizing, especially as a former strength. Good, dude.

I look forward to it. It does, like, I like being an off-season now, but there is a part of me that is like I want to work for something and I want the instant gratification right now. And in bodybuilding, you really don't get that because you really have to put the time in in order to put something special on stage. So it's, it's, I both look forward to it and I kind of dread it. So it's just kind of like a daily existential crisis that I have that I deal with. I got you.

I still remember that moment in your prep last year where you're like, I lost my ass. Dude, I'm like turning to the side and I'm disappearing. It sucks, dude. Shake it before you. Give it a little shake. Yeah. It's like the honey needs to like,

it settles at the bottom. It's like that's the lime. That's the mango. I love the mango. But it's really hard to do mango right. Yeah. It's drink 203. I thought for sure I was going to explode in my face.

Yeah. And it's also like usually drinks need these, these types of things need to be carbonated. Yeah, these things like, you know, but it doesn't need that. This is fucking, hmm. It's drink 203. We have those two flavors on the first run. It's not even out yet.

We're not, we have everything lined up. I think like July. It's hopefully July. Hopefully July. Sometime in summer, but drink 203. It's powderized honey. It has like just enough for an intra-workout drink, but it's also a and it's also essentially like just electrolytes replacement.

like an elementi packet or whatever and it's just our version of it because i was a collegiate wrestler i always i remember doing the honey sticks and like literally the macdonald's honey packs like to fuel up before training and it was always this conversation between myself and johnny the owner like how how do we how do we make this happen and it's finally happening so it's like cans uh we have packets And I'm super sorry. Come out. Yeah. What made it?

What's 203 mean? It's just the oxygenation of the, of the, of the, basically like the, I can't remember, I'm trying to remember what Johnny specifically told me because it's his, it's his thing. It's like the version, his, his interpretation of the version of oxygen that, like, oxygenates the cells. And it's like the whole rhetoric of like the full capacity to fill out and your potential. You say it's H3? Is that you said?

No, it's 2.0. Oh, three. Yeah. Yeah. That's where, I think it's the same avenue as like the H3O. It's like, which is like in your own body.

Yeah. And John, it's something that Johnny came up with. I'm not even 100%. But it's Johnny, I think, Johnny and his brother, right?

Nelson. Yeah. So those guys are the primary owners. We're just kind of pushing a needle. Yeah, it's good. It's good. Like legitimately the flip.

And again, this is like, unga bunga. Because I'm like, and this is horrible, because it's like health and wellness, absolutely drive up performance. Like using that on a run, intra workout, fantastic. But also, I'm an idiot.

And I'm like, man, put a shot of tequila in that. Oh. I don't drink alcohol, but I do see what you're saying. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that'd be good. Be your own little hydrating margarita, you know. Yeah, but yeah, I'm super stoked about that because it's not even out yet. We're releasing it either sometime in summer like July.

And I'm just really stoked to get people's hands. on that because I really think like you you said it tastes great and the entire like rhetoric of honey being the quickest metabolizing carbohydrate to take in and like the perfect intra-workout because it's the one-to-one ratio between glucose and fructose and talk about the quick the quickest form of energy so I'm just I'm just stoked about it so amazing congratulations thank you guys for being on the show really appreciate it absolutely thank you guys strength is never weakness weakness never strength catch you guys later bye