Mark Bell's Power Project - Long Term Intermittent Fasting: Benefits, Risks, And Results - Kyle Newell || MBPP Ep. 1072

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

In episode 1072, Kyle Newell, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about the amazing benefits Kyle and his clients are having with extended fasts from 48 hours and beyond for multiple days throughout the week. Follow Kyle on IG: https://www.instagram.com/thepandamanofficial/   Official Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below!   🍆  Natural Sexual Performance Booster 🍆 ➢https://usejoymode.com/discount/POWERPROJECT Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   🚨 The Best Red Light Therapy Devices and Blue Blocking Glasses On The Market! 😎 ➢https://emr-tek.com/ Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   👟 BEST LOOKING AND FUNCTIONING BAREFOOT SHOES 🦶 ➢https://vivobarefoot.com/powerproject   🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save up to 25% off your Build a Box ➢ Piedmontese Beef: https://www.CPBeef.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   🩸 Get your BLOODWORK Done! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com/PowerProject to receive 10% off our Panel, Check Up Panel or any custom panel, and use code POWERPROJECT for 10% off any lab!   Sleep Better and TAPE YOUR MOUTH (Comfortable Mouth Tape) 🤐 ➢ https://hostagetape.com/powerproject to receive a year supply of Hostage Tape and Nose Strips for less than $1 a night!   🥶 The Best Cold Plunge Money Can Buy 🥶 ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained:      ➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!   ➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ UNTAPPED Program - https://shor.by/untapped ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en   Follow Andrew Zaragoza & Get Podcast Guides, Courses and More ➢ https://pursuepodcasting.com/iamandrewz   #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

Peter Itea and some of these guys, they've been messing with fasting for a while. And now they're saying, hey man, don't do it. It's not worth it. They haven't done it to the degree for a long enough period of time to experience the benefits that I've experienced. Where should someone start? Let's experience a 48. Let's see what happens. What are the different things that you believe happens versus someone who's just doing a 12 or 16 hour fast? Brelling goes down over time. Your fat burning enzymes go up and metabolic rate goes up. It would be hard to screw up a diet which includes a 48-hour fast. I haven't been able to out-eat.

If people really want to get lean, is if they can commit for a period of time, 72 every week. That is powerful for fat loss. Urine therapy, I would do all day long. Yo! Yeah. What do we got with that? What's that? We drinking our own pee?

Drinking our own urine. All right, why, dawg? Fuck, fuck. So I'll give you the. Oh, man. If you guys have been enjoying the content we've been bringing here on The Power Project, consider leaving us a review on Spotify and Apple. We've had podcasts with people from Functional Patterns to Ben Patrick to Jack Cruz who roasted us on air.

But we did that for you to bring you some of the best information in fitness. We're learning along with you and leaving a review with how you dig the podcast is really going to be something that helps the podcast move forward. So if you can leave us a review there and enjoy the rest of the show. All right, man. Well, it's a little confusing because anytime I've ever seen a panda, all they do is eat and you're the panda man and you promote fasting. All they do is eat. And you're the panda man, and you promote fasting. How'd this come to be?

So the story of the panda comes from a basketball player, Ron Artest, when he changed his name to the panda's friend or the friendly panda. It was on his email list. I always liked the way he played. Metal world peace, shout out. Metal world peace, yeah. So I bought his hat and his shirt. This was back in like 2013 or so.

And then when I got into fasting, did the regular 16-8 for years, five years. Then I got into long form. And once I realized, hey, there's something here, you know, and I decided I was going to write the book on it. What am I going to call the book? And the panda was just always in my, like, I felt like that was almost like my spirit animal. I'm like, the panda died. So it's nothing to do with what a panda eats. It's more the black or white approach, the mindfulness,

the duality, you know, fasting or feasting. So that's where it came from. Fasting's out though. You know, I saw, you know,

Peter Itea and some of these guys, they've been messing with fasting for a while. And now they're saying, hey man, don't do it. It's not worth it. What are some of your thoughts there? I think when people say that, because I will see a lot of guys say that, they haven't done it to the degree for a long enough period of time to experience the benefits

that I've experienced, right? It's easy for people to speak on theory with stuff. But to me, I always look at the direct knowledge. Have you actually, okay, you learned about it, but did you actually do it? Then you can speak about it and say, oh, maybe not do it the direct knowledge. Have you actually, okay, you learned about it, but did you actually do it? Then you can speak about it and say, oh, maybe not do it because it is. Like I've seen where Greco, Gary Greco was talking about the 30-30-30 and your muscles are going to liquefy if you don't eat within. And I'm like, that's pure theory. Like have my muscles liquefied, right?

And I've been doing six meals a week for five years. So it's like, I don't know anybody that's been studying people that fast like that for long periods of time. So when these guys say it, I think people are so caught up in a traditional dogma and some indoctrination from the schooling system with health and fitness that they can't break that train of thought. Curious, real quick, Mark, do you know why, like, what's the reasons that they're giving? Are they saying it's just like not something that's sustainable for people? Do you know?

I think some people, you know, I'm not exactly sure why Peter Itea is kind of preaching against it. I do know that he did fasting. You know, he utilized a lot of fasting. I think he would do 48 and 72-hour fasts here and there. But again, Peter Itea looks very healthy. He doesn't look like he has a problem with his food. So maybe for him, it's just like he just feels maybe it's overkill at this point. Maybe he feels it's not necessary.

I'm making stuff up. I haven't heard him actually say that. Yeah. Just a super duper quick Google search just says that he does, he feels it's nearly impossible to eat enough protein to support your body during a fast. Oh my God. So, yeah. And I think, I think people feel like they're going to lose muscle when they do it. Yeah. And I actually, I agree with you because like all of us, you know, Mark started fasting a long time ago. Me too. It's like you get, at least for me, when you start doing it, you kind of get zoned in and you might actually start fasting too much. You fast so much that you can't actually get in the calories you need to perform. But I quickly learned, okay, I don't maybe need to fast every day.

There could be some days that I do one meal a day. There could be some days that I fast, but then I just need to make sure that I get in all the protein needed through the week. And if you can do that and you can still make sure that performance is on top of mind, then you can still get all those awesome benefits that fasting gives you without having to fast all the time. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's the mindfulness approach, which is really where I would like people to be when they're eating, right? It's taking a mindful, using your biofeedback, reading your body, how you're feeling, what works for you, right? Because people, most people, it's just the mindless, it's the mindless eating, right?

Being someone actually that uses fasting with so many clients, like I think it's the main method that you have your client's diet, right? What is it. What is it that you notice, not from the diet side, but maybe from the way that they start looking at food and hunger, et cetera? It's a complete game changer. So I have people, I use something called mind mapping, which is the science of how the brain forms habits. And a lot of that is like the inner dialogue, right? That's environment number one.

And I have them right out the gate. I make some things clear to them. I say, guys, food is a drug. It affects the internal biochemical hormonal environment. So let's get clear on that, right? It's a drug. Now, when you feel hunger, reframe it right away as this is what fat loss feels like. And as soon as you start telling yourself that, you almost seek it out.

And you're taking something that could be a pain in the the butt and now you've made it something to seek out and to look forward to. So it's a complete shift. And then they start building the confidence because they've never been able to control their eating or never gotten results. But if they do a 36 or a 48 right out the gate, it's that confidence like, man, I could do this.

I can actually control this drug of food. Have you had anybody go too far and end up with kind of like an eating disorder? Because that's what comes to mind. It's like some of the people listening are like, oh, if they think they're burning fat and they're already in good shape, then they have an eating disorder. I haven't, but I know there's been clients at our gyms that are very sensitive to this because they've had eating disorders. I'm like, well, then if you have an eating disorder, then this is probably not what you want to do, right? We're looking at a different plan. Yeah. Yeah. Then it's really, even though we're trying to address the psychology with this and that inner dialogue, it's really,

they got to go inward to work on something like that. Yeah. What I've found with fasting for myself is that it's helped a lot with hunger, which kind of seems the opposite of what you would think. You would think, man, if I don't eat, then I would be hungrier. I've actually found that sometimes if I have like a light breakfast, or even if I am trying to have a light breakfast, like I won't have a light breakfast because I'll end up eating more food than I planned. Usually that's the case with me. If I have an opportunity to eat, I'm going to eat a pretty large amount. And so it's been helpful to just say, you know what, we're just going to make a rule. We're going to make a law. It's going to be black and white and we're just not going to eat for this period of time. But even after doing that and experimenting with that for a long time,

now when I do have the choice to eat, now I can control it a lot better. Almost like maybe somebody might experience if they're utilizing some of these GLP-1s and some of those other things. Yeah, for sure. And everything I've read and experienced is over time with the fat long-form fasting, your ghrelin signals are going to go down. So the food entrainment patterns, right, when we've essentially trained our body to expect food over time, let's say it's breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you're going to get hunger signals at those times initially, but that will diminish over time. Now, if you do a traditional calorie cutting diet, what happens to ghrelin,

and this is what I experienced when I was bodybuilding, it starts going up, up, up, up, up. So ghrelin's going up, right? And then you can't really control it. But with fasting, it gets diminished. So even when I have people that'll do three, four, five-day fasts, if you actually, and I'll have them monitor it. Okay, how long of a period of time did you actually feel hungry in that five days? You're talking like 15 minutes. It's not this, you know, all the time unless they focus on it. So we got to shift the focus. I want to add in on that too, man.

Because I know for some people, there might be a lot of people who haven't done fasting and they're listening to this and maybe they've listened to a Mike Mutzel or maybe a Peter Atiyah or a lot of people who are like Elaine Norton, especially. And those guys are, especially Elaine, is in the camp of, you know, fasting is just a caloric deficit. The only benefit you're getting from it is because you're eating less food and because of that, you're dropping weight. you're getting from it is because you're eating less food and because of that, you're dropping weight. But I mean, there is a difference, especially if you come from the side of a lack of food control. Let's say that you're always counting calories and that's the only way you can keep your calories the same. Or you always find yourself hungry like I used to. I mean, I was a six meals a day guy plus fucking Ben and Jerry's at night every night. And I always felt hungry. Implementing fasting got me used to feeling

hungry, like you said. And then because I wouldn't eat, I'd feel it and I wouldn't have to respond to it. And because you don't always respond to it, you get better at actually handling it. And then when later on, then you realize I'm not truly hungry right now. It's just because I've trained myself to always be eating at this time that I feel like I got to eat. Yeah. It's amazing. It's when people view the hunger as an emotion, right? Me. Yeah. But most people aren't aware of that. But as soon as you put it in that box, you know, Mark was saying in the workout, which I thought was brilliant. Hey, if I told you you're going to feel sad, right? That's what you said for 30 minutes tomorrow.

Okay. You know, nobody knew. If you're going to feel hungry tomorrow for 10 minutes, but people get this feeling and then they start basing their actions off of the feeling. Oh, I got to eat or I'm sad or I'm angry. So let me eat and fill the need. With the fasting, what I've seen,

the change happens from the inside out because you start mastering that mindset and what you're telling yourself. And that's where the true transformation comes in. Most people are taking that outside-in approach where it's, let me see how much I weigh. Let me weigh all my food, which I did for years, right? I've lived that lifestyle. But this, everything shifted inside out. But we'll go over the calorie stuff more too because that's something I've got some different views on, I think.

It's tough when you're really tethered to food. And you think about so many events, so many things that we do. They're tethered around going to the coffee shop and having something to eat, something to drink. Thinking about food all the time. There can't be a Super Bowl party without really good buffalo wings there. UFC fights, holidays, birthdays, and so on. The list goes on and on. And almost with every sort of celebration, there's always some sort of food and drink.

And I think it was Mike Dolce who said, why do we celebrate with these things that like hurt us? It's an interesting thing because the celebration a lot of times isn't like, hey, let's grill up some steak and have, you know, some vegetables and then end the night with a fruit bowl. It's usually alcohol and cake and so forth. Yes. Yeah, it is. It's been normalized and alcohol in particular, right? It's probably the worst thing that people could consume, more than any other drug. But it's been so normalized and accepted. And again, you always got to go back to the marketing dollars. just constantly putting junk in, it keeps you in that zombified state. Don't think for yourself.

To me, looking at the bigger picture, people are easier to control when they're just, the bread and circus, keep them sugared up. Get them going to Panera Bread. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some bread and some soup. Yeah, for me, fasting,

what it did was it just taught me and it kind of, not forced me, but it made it easier to make better food choices. So when I'm eating these small kind of like meals all day, when it came to dinner time or whatever it was, it was like, nah, let me just eat like a sandwich with a lot of bread or something. And then versus the opposite, when I started fasting and I had like true hunger, like where I felt like, yes, I want to refuel this body with like steak and, you know, just again, better food choices. Um, do you find that anybody has a hard time with, I'm to refuel this body with like steak and, you know, just again, better food choices.

Do you find that anybody has a hard time with, I'm going to say, quote, binge eating after a long fast? Because I know when I've talked to people about fasting, they'll say stupid things like, oh, this means I can eat whatever I want when I'm done fasting. Right. And it's like, well, I mean, maybe, but definitely not. Maybe, but definitely not. But yeah, have you run into that where somebody's, you know, they're having a hard time with the, like, I'll say the feeding window when they just kind of just cut way too loose and they just eat way too much? Yeah, it's a great, great question. I get the concern a lot from people. And the way I break the fast and what I've done myself the past five years, I have people start with fruit. So that's like their appetizer.

And a lot of times when people go to my program, if they're having trouble, it's because they cut out that component because one thing or another they've heard about is too much sugar and all this. When you're taking the fruit, right? Part of the reason I do that, it passes through your stomach and it's got so much volume, it hits the stretch receptors, which starts signaling the brain that, hey, slow down nice and easy here. And you're getting tons of micronutrients. So when people do that, some people can just eat the fruit and they're full, right? So when I tell people that, hey, do that, and then let's see what else you want to have. It's more like the concept in their head, they think, when I break the fast, I'm not going to be able to control this. I'm going to binge because I haven't eaten. break the fast, I'm not going to be able to control this. I'm going to binge because I haven't eaten.

And you'll be surprised like when a lot of people do a longer fast, they don't have that capacity to eat this huge volume of food, right? It kind of goes down a little bit. I think a lot of people eat, I think there's a lot of people, especially people that exercise, there's a lot of people that eat pretty well. They eat pretty good throughout the day. They get their exercise in. And I think the demons kind of come out later in the evening, you know, after 7 p.m. You know, if you were to barge into someone's house, you'd probably see them with some sort of junk food. Maybe they just got super hungry for the day. But again, a lot of it has to do with they were eating throughout the day, making themselves maybe a little bit more hungrier. And if it's somebody that's into fitness, they're probably calorically restricted.

And so while they're eating, they're not necessarily really all that satisfied. When you fast and then you get an opportunity to eat, you get to kind of satisfy yourself with different types of food. Again, this is not without any regard to calories at all, but you can have foods that are very nutrient-rich in terms of their macronutrients and in terms of their micronutrients. And it seems to me, it's been my experience, that you want to fill up that cup because the main food that you're going to eat is going to be like healthier options.

And you tend to want to stick to that. It's almost like a rearrangement of what you were doing previously where somebody in the morning might have had a breakfast burrito or something from McDonald's. And then they get hungry midday. They try to clean the diet up a little bit. They have a salad. But they're deprived. They don't really have what they need. They don't have what they want. And now they come home and maybe the dinner is not that bad, but what they do after dinner is probably some self-sabotage. It is certainly. And it's for me, the feast, the way I teach it, right? It's a feast. So

you do 48 and then you come in for most people into the one meal a day. Now, when you get to the feast, it's meant to be looked forward to. It's meant to have gratitude around it. It's meant to be an experience. Like I believe each time we eat, it should have that element of this special moment,

you know, this gift from God, right? And when you do that and you slow down, because a lot of people, what you're referring to, right? It's the stress of the day, right? It when you do that and you slow down, because a lot of people, which you're referring to, right, it's the stress of the day, right? It's the stress of the day they haven't coped with. But if you get yourself into that state of mind, work is done for the day. There's nothing else going on after I eat this feast. A lot of people can deal with it a lot better, but then you structure, okay, then we look at the mechanics of it. And the way that I teach people to do is, okay, you start with your fruit, then your feast, your protein, your

carbohydrates, veggies, whatever. And then on a regular day, make sure you have your soaked oats in the fridge or whatever. So it's there, right? So we got to set everything up for habits. If it's there, if you had to go make it and all that, it's another step. It's easier to grab the cookies. But if you have that, then you just start building like that. And then you'll start seeking out, to Andrew's point, you'll start seeking out the good foods, the foods that taste good. Your taste buds come back to life. I have a question for you. So on that note, like you said, you do six meals every week.

So do you have, is that what you try to get most people to do? Like six or seven meals, like one meal a day, most all the time. Yeah. So that's how I live. And when I take people through, like, I do it like a Panda challenge, a five week program. So within that, that's what we're starting with. And then the week two, we might hit a 72 or I'll throw out at 70 or 96, right? We start building, but I want them at the end of it to have some type of foundation.

Now, for me, for most people, I'm like a one meal a day is a very good place for a lot of people to be that come to me for weight loss, insulin resistance type stuff. And if they stay with that, right, they're not going to reverse the work we've done with the insulin resistance. They're going to be much better. So I prefer for many reasons for myself to do that. And I think it's a really good place for most people to be. And I like how you mentioned like weight loss and insulin resistance, like that group of individuals, they're dealing with a lot of different things

than somebody who's, let's just say, they're trying to build a lot of muscle. Because I think one of the places where someone's going to try to battle you, is they're going to be like, well, if you eat one meal, it's going to be really hard to get in all of your protein during that meal

to really be able to perform the next day with just that one big meal every single day. So what are your thoughts on that? Because I think that would be where some people would be like, well, fuck, if I could do two meals, that can make it easier to get in all that food. But one meal, a lot of people struggle with that.

Yeah. Another great question. So when I was bodybuilding, probably like yourself, I was doing three to 400 grams a day of protein. Like it's insane. You look back at it, it's like, man, how was I even doing that? And then what I started to figure out when I really started getting into the long form fasting was, okay, protein is more anabolic. We know that, right?

But it is linked to some health implications of some people with the acidity and all this type of stuff. So I'm like, maybe we don't need as much. And then I started researching that and experimenting with it. So now on the average week, if I don't track anything, but after measuring for so many years, I got to get an eye for it. If I eat three to 400 grams of protein a week,

that's a normal week for me, right? So in order to maintain. Now, insulin going back to, this is the thing, right? Insulin, we want to, I call it the slingshot effect. So we want to limit insulin output to tap into body fat stores. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body. It's going to make us store. Let's use the anabolic principle of insulin with our training and when we feast to make the muscle cells grow. So like calorie partitioning, right, is something I've long believed in. Let's try to direct as best we can where the food is going. Is it going to the fat cell or the muscle cell? The more insulin resistant you are, the more likely it's going to go to the fat cell. So the more insulin resistant you are, the more likely it's going to go to the fat cell.

So John Meadows, Mountain Dog, when he was coaching me for a couple shows, he said, Kyle, to put on size in the off-season, I want you between 10% and 12% body fat, which is lean for the off-season, right? For me, anyhow. And he said, because the more insulin sensitive you are, the easier it is to put on muscle. So a lot of people can really optimize and use that insulin to your advantage on both sides, for fat loss and to pack nutrients into the muscle. So a lot of people can really optimize and use that insulin to your advantage on both sides for fat loss and to pack nutrients into the muscle. Can I ask you something real quick about the 300, 400 per week that you mentioned? I actually agree with you on the maintenance side. I think a lot of people would be surprised about how little protein they actually need to eat to

be able to maintain the muscle they have on their frame. It takes a surprisingly low amount of protein to maintain your muscle versus I'm believed to gain new muscle. So now within the context of someone trying to actually gain muscle, right? Like they're trying to put on size. Do you still hold the same idea that like it should still be that low amount of protein potentially? Like, I mean, you look like you're what, 230? Probably, yeah, in that range, 225. 225, 230. Yeah. Would that still be your advice to someone who's around that weight, who's trying to build muscle, not maintain, but build muscle? So it is more anabolic, right? Protein. We know that. So if you want to build muscle, that's one of the few times I'd have people track that. But even with

that said, protein itself is not a good energy. So it's not the best energy source. Yeah. So we've got to make sure we're getting in enough protein, sparing macronutrients, getting your carbs and your fats on top of that. And then if we have to bump it out and do some like peri-workout type of nutrition stuff, then okay, we can do that. But most of the people that come to me, 90% of them, it's about fat loss.

Okay, I got you. Right? I got you. Most of them. Yeah. Now, we were talking about Mickey before some of the fighters that they've kind of come into my world. They've adopted this, right?

And their performance is still on point where their inflammation is going down. It's easier for them to recover. So there's so many facets to it. Now, if you wanted to step on stage and really trying to pack a muscle, then we got to address that. But with the training, because I get that question all the time,

you know, from people on social media. The thing, not us, but most people overlook is the training stimulus. Most people aren't training hard enough to put on muscle and they want to go right to what am I supposed to eat? I'm like, it doesn't matter if your training's not on point. That's a stressor you have to apply to put on muscle. Get that straight first, and then we can address the next step, which is the food.

Yeah, the overarching theme is that you need a stimulus, right? Yeah. Through training. And then you're going to need a, if you're trying to build muscle, you're going to need some calories. Yeah. Right? And so, which calories they are, you know, it might not matter a ton.

I mean, at certain point it's gonna matter because you can't just have all your calories come from fat. You can't just have all your calories come from carbs. There's gotta probably be a mix in there. But I agree, and I think that a lot of people maybe haven't, maybe it's not like long understood that our other macronutrients are protein sparing, carbohydrates, fats, and obviously protein is going to help you to retain muscle mass as well.

Yeah, right on. You know, I think one of the things that I think is interesting is how so many people, when it comes to fasting, they immediately get so concerned and so worried that, you know, you took something off the table, you took something from them and they immediately start to, to, uh, hyperanalyze what's going on. And they're like, well, what about my pump in the gym? You know, how am I going to have energy? What, okay. You said not to eat anything, but what do I have before I train? Yeah. You know, how do you address some of these issues? How do you address, uh, the person that kind of wants

to get that pump in the gym? Yeah. Did you maybe over time they're able to develop some resilience and not have that be such a concern? A thousand percent. It's a big concern for people performance-wise in the gym, but with the pump and all that, some before I was fasting that, you know, one of my coaches had me do is get a lot of like sodium phosphate and do soy sauce pickles before you train for the pump. Smart man. Right? Yeah. So if we get the sodium in, right, in our fasting or just, even if you're not fasting, I tell people like, as far as supplements, people don't look at it as a supplement. But sodium is like, I think it increases strength, endurance by up to like 20%.

It's crazy. So you get that in and then what's going to draw the water into the cell is the sodium, right? So you could do sodium. I'm a fan of doing creatine too, and for me, that's fine to do during the fast period. I don't think it has much of an effect negatively on that. So if you wanted to pump, you do that. Now, what I've seen too, I can't remember the guy's name, but it was Rational Fasting. The book's a little over a hundred years old, but he talks about in there. Yeah, it's really,

it's very interesting. And he talks about within the book, this idea where the oxygen in the body will increase the less obstruction you have in the body, right? So P would be in his formula, like oxygen pressure minus the obstruction equals your vitality right and unless we eat what i've seen um when i do my wim hof breathing when i'm in the longer part of the fast like i said in the 48 or 72 it's a dramatic difference how much longer i could hold my breath towards the back end of the fast than the front so i'm like okay there's something here the cold tub is much more tolerable to me when I'm in a longer fast,

which doesn't intuitively make sense for most people. So there's something with the blood flow and the oxygen that has increased, I believe, when you're fasting. So over time, when you adapt yourself to this, you're going to see that. You'll be able to get a pump. And it's like, I have no problem

getting a pump in the gym. You know, that's my experience. Oh, there it is. Nice. He's got the whole fuck. Yeah, there you go. He's got a couple books as well. Who was the other guy?

I just, there's another guy. It'll come to me. Another old fasting book I just read. And it was amazing because the same timeframe and he's going over

the same thing. The cold therapy, the fasting and how when you eat, it should be an experience, a feast. Your work for the day should be done. Man, it's just cool stuff. I did an ungodly amount of research for this podcast. You know what I found? What? People eat way too much food. Yeah. Yeah. And so a great counter to that is to try to figure out some form of fasting.

Where should someone start? Where do you think someone should start? Where do I personally think people should start? With me, I put them right into the longer fast to knock out any fear and to build their confidence. I like them to go right in. Let's experience a 48. Let's see what happens. Then all of a sudden, they do it. They build the confidence. And if I get them into one meal a day, oh, that's not so hard compared to the 48. Now, the mind map, part of the mind map approach I'll take with some people is, okay, and you could use this for dry fasting too, 12-hour increments. Go for 12 hours. When you get to that next 12 hours, and this is going to bring the mindfulness to the eating for a lot of people, can I go another 12 hours? And this is the way you can string together really long fasts. If you want it to do like a seven, eight, nine day fast, just take it 12 hours at a time. Because

when we think too far into the future, right, anxiety goes up. We start feeling overwhelmed. There's less prediction and response. So those two approaches, I find great success with people though, right? When I put them into the deep end, right out the gate. You and your leaders had an awesome night. You got dinner or you just came back from the gym and it's time for that fun time. But you look down at your willy and well, it's not working the way it should. Where's that blood flow? Well, that's where Joy Mode comes in.

And I can read you these ingredients right off the bat because they're all natural ingredients. L-citrulline, arginine nitrate, panox ginseng root, and vitamin C. The thing about Joy Mode is you just slip this baby into a little bit of water, drink it, and 45 minutes later, when you're getting ready to go to the pound town, you will be ready to rock. And you know what I mean by rock. Joy Mode's really awesome because there's a lot of things that people promote as far as sexual wellness tools,

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your entire order. Again, usejoymode.com slash powerproject, promo code powerproject, links in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. What type of success do you find with this long-term fasting? What are the different things that you believe happens versus someone who's just doing a 12 or 16-hour fast? So I did the typical 16 hour fast for five years. Sometimes I would do one meal a day, which I thought was extreme at that point. And not much changed really,

but I knew it was a much better approach to eating. Like I felt better. I still had to really manage my calories to stay somewhat lean. So what I've seen though with these, when people tell me I'm gonna do a 16, I'm like, you're not going to move the needle for most people. Because insulin, right? So many people have insulin resistance built up to such a great degree. And insulin resistance is the root cause

of every disease. It's the twin sister of inflammation. So we need to reverse that. We need to get you more insulin sensitive. So I have a lot of people that will come to me, they'll be stuck. They've tried everything, right? So one lady that comes to mind, this happens all the time. This is a couple of years ago. She came to me, she was in her 60s, went through menopause twice because she had a hysterectomy. She goes, Kyle, I just came off a 40-day, she goes, I've tried everything. I just did a 40-day diet, eating 1,100 calories a day, I lost one pound. You think this will work? I said, let's give it a shot. She dropped about 19, 20 pounds in the five weeks and she kept it off. So what I see is people, when they stick with this,

they can maintain it much easier. The relationship to food is just transformed, right? Now, if they reverse that and start going back to three, four, five meals a day, what do you think is going to happen? I tell them, everything's going to get reversed. You're going to build back up that insulin resistance. So the insulin to me is like the main factor. Can we control that? And I've seen so many people, again, that have been stuck for so long. They've tried everything.

They do this. And I do think there's the, I, in my opinion, the insulin is a much bigger factor than the calories, like insulin. Do you feel in some way that this like fixes some people's metabolism in a way or something? Because, I mean, if these people are being honest, sometimes they estimate 1,100 calories and they make mistakes and so on. But do you feel like some people are just maybe not utilizing energy efficiently? Yeah, I think that's a huge point. Yeah, I think that's a huge point. So with myself, the way it started, when I would compete for these shows, the way I was coached initially, which completely messed up my metabolic rate, I would have to, there were shows I went as low as 1300 calories a day, like just star will tell you, like she would say to me sometimes, I don't understand the way you eat,

the way you train, you don't look like I would think you, and it wasn't to make me feel bad. It's like you're about to drive off a cliff. Yeah, yeah. And it was frustrating because I was like, man, a guy my size, I should be able to eat 3,000 calories and enjoy it

and not get put back on all this body fat. So when I started this 2019, that first summer I tracked everything, right? Because I was, okay, let me track just so I get my research and see what happens to me. I found that I was able, because I got a huge appetite, probably like you guys, I've got a humongous appetite. I was able to keep pushing that food volume up and up and up, and I kept losing weight and getting leaner. I said, wait a minute.

Okay, so with the calories, first, your metabolic rate can go up or down 40%, right? Most people never experience it going up, right? Because they're always dieting. And you diet, metabolic rate comes down. Cut more, comes down. And then you run into this, it's a whole trickle-down effect.

When you go down that road, metabolic rate comes down. Ghrelin goes up. Fat-storing enzymes go up. So you're setting yourself up to store more fat as soon as you break, and you can't stand it anymore. With the fasting, all the research and my personal experience with myself and my clients, ghrelin goes down over time. Your fat-burning enzymes go up. And metabolic rate goes up.

In Sim Land's book, he talks about metabolic rate can actually go up 5% to 13% just through long-form fasting. So it completely restored my metabolic rate. Like, I can eat, I can feast, I can enjoy my food, and that's what I've really seen. Like, I think the metabolic damage can be recovered. Some people do reverse dieting and all this, but that's been I've really seen. Like, I think the metabolic damage can be recovered. Some people do reverse dieting and all this, but that's been my experience with it. When you say metabolic damage, what do you mean?

With the bodybuilding world, what I experience, when you do these North American diets and you just keep going back to them, right? So for me, it was 13, 14, 1500 calories I would have to be at. Now, that's not even my basal metabolic rate. That's not even just like, I should need more than that just to sustain myself laying in the bed all day. Right. So, so almost all of that would be like in a prep, right? Yeah. That would be in a prep. Okay. But even in the off season, you know, I would still want to maintain some, some type of look. I would go up to 2,200, 2,300, and the fat would just pile on me, right?

And it didn't, it was always very frustrating. It did not make sense. It was just, again, looking at, if you just looked at numbers, you know, I should be able to do a lot more than that and stay in pretty good shape. And I had buddies that were competing that would do that. I'm like, how can they eat 4,000 calories a day?

And I do 2,500 and the fat just starts coming on. So the metabolic damage I think is what happens to people when they do chronic dieting and they never restore it. Yeah, no, okay. So in that sense, I agree with you. I think that like, especially when people keep going on diet then they come off the diet, they start eating a bunch and because they've been dieting on these low calories,

now they're eating double those calories immediately and they don't ramp back up. They gain more weight than they go back to dieting. It would be like the product of yo-yo dieting. That's what you're talking about here. Yeah, exactly. And that's like the Oprah Winfrey, what she did for years, right?

Was, again, you're setting and you have the set point, right? And there's some people believe in it, some people don't. But your weight set point, what I experienced when I was doing the bodybuilding diets, each time after the show, my set point would climb. I would be heavier. So to me, it was like my body was saying, okay, he's going to, we don't know when he's going to do this again. So now let's put on more fat so we have more reserves. And this is what you see again with the first couple of times I competed and I didn't understand all the physiology at that point.

I would put on 30 to 40 pounds within the first couple of days after a show. I know people who have done that. Yeah. The appetite would be like insane. I couldn't get full, which led me down a cool path where, so Scott Abel, I was telling you about during the workout, Scott was the first coach I ever had. Scott, I think he was brilliant. And at that time doing more of a traditional, he got me into what was called the cycle diet, which I loved. So the cycle diet to maintain shape, even when I wasn't competing,

not bodybuilding shape, but lower body fats, you have to get in what's called super compensation mode. So most of the week, six days a week, I'd be in one of these big deficits, 1,600 calories a day. But cheat day would come. And it would just be, I mean, Devin will tell you. And we tracked it at one time, 15,000, 20,000 calories, insane. Like I can't do do that now but you set yourself up because you're messing with the ghrelin you're just messing with everything but his concept was the research he had

done was that you needed 55 calories per pound of body weight to restore leptin levels when you're in a chronic dieting so that's a lot of food and i loved it but the problem was you'd be in like a food coma like you would just lose the enjoyment. And it was like, man, I'm living for this one day of the week. And, you know, by noon, I'm like falling asleep. And you wouldn't be just eating whole foods to hit that calorie amount, would you? No, no, no, no. So I'll give you an example.

I have some in the book. I'll give you one of the ones I have in the book. So it was 2014. So I was doing the 16-8 fasting, but I'm coming off the shows, right? About a month out. It was actually my birthday, August 10th. We're driving down to the Outer Banks.

And it's Sunday, so it's my cheat day, right? So I'm all geared up. So we leave the house at like 6 a.m. It's about a 10-hour drive. We stop at Dunkin' Donuts, get a dozen of like the double chocolate donuts. I finished them before we were even at the 6 a.m. It's about a 10-hour drive. We stop at Dunkin' Donuts, get a dozen of like the double chocolate donuts. I finish them before we're even

at the next town. She made a huge, like a quart of rice pudding. I eat that. I do a bag of Butterfingers. What else? I did a box of Girl Scout cookies.

So this is probably about 11 o'clock. Then we go, I love Waffle House. They don't have them in New Jersey. You guys ever been there? Oh, yeah.

I haven't. I love Waffle House. Greatest place have them in New Jersey. You guys ever been there? Oh, yeah. I haven't. I love Waffle House. Greatest place to stop if you ever travel across the country. It is great, man. And these waffles they have are humongous. They're filling. So we go over there. I said, don't tell anybody it's my birthday.

I don't like attention. We go and the place is packed. And so we're sitting at the bar. They've got the open kitchen concept. And I tell the lady, again, remember how much I already ate at this point. I said, I'll take three of the peanut butter waffles, eggs, coffee.

She's like, I thought you said three. I'm sorry, what did you say? And I said, no, I'm going to do three. And she goes, nobody's ever eaten more than two, we've seen. So now they start making, they start chattering, right? So it's drawing the attention, which I didn't want. Challenge accepted. Yeah.

So they come out, I do that. And I think each of those waffles is in the eight to 900 calorie range. And then I finish and I'm like, go give me two more. So now I do five. And then the manager comes out. He goes, if you do two more, so put you at seven. He goes, I'm going to buy your meal. And at that point, I was like,

we still got to drive like six hours. I mean, it's just going to, it's going to destroy my day. But that was an example of, yeah, it would not be clean foods at all to get it. Not clean foods. That's amazing. Seven waffles.

I did five. After all those Butterfingers. Yeah. Oh, five waffles. Yeah, he told me if I did the two more to get to seven, he would buy the meal. But he gave, I have a picture in the book. He gave me a hat, a Waffle House hat.

What, have you seen body fat percentages from some of your clients or from yourself? Because I think, again, most people are going to be like, oh man, his people must be, they're losing weight, but they got to be losing muscle. What I've seen with myself and my clients, so I mentioned to you in the workout, we have a guy that's down, now look at that picture, if you guys look at that, on the left, that's the run our test panda hat, by the way, that one right there. That was doing your 16-8 fast for a couple years at that point. The only thing that changed, I was still on testosterone replacement at the same time. The only thing that changed is I've been doing the

long form fasting for five years now. So this picture was last summer. That's the only difference. My training has always been there, you know, and it has what I've seen a compounding effect. The longer you do it over a long period of time, it just keeps working because you're manipulating the hormones. Like you're going inwards of that. I forgot what your question was. I was asking about body fat percentage. Body fat, yeah. So like, you know, have you had clients, you know, get their body fat tested just to kind of make sure people aren't losing?

Like, I do think that, look, if someone loses 50 pounds, they're going to lose muscle. You know, it's like, it's near impossible to hold on to all of it with any diet protocol. But what are you seeing from your clients? Yeah, so we use something called the InBody. We got a nice version of it. It's a $10,000 machine. And it's pretty close to like when I would use Calipers and Charles Poliquin's method. I've tested it out.

And what we see on that is like the one guy who just lost recently over the past couple of years, 160 pounds. Now, when he started with us, with the program last year, at that point, he'd already lost a lot, right? Through the fasting. He said, man, I want to put on more muscle and I want to get my weight to this thing. So he actually texted me a picture yesterday of his in body. In the past five months, his body fat, you know, he was 12, six, he's in the sixth range now and his muscles up 10 pounds. Wow. Right. So what I've seen is the body composition is it'll favor the optimal thing. And I believe fasting can actually set you up like a lot of big concern when people fast, right? I'm going to lose muscle. Right. But we were talking about before we're

hunting and gathering. If we, the two things that would enable us to go out and get food as we kind of went through the centuries, right? Our mind and our muscle. So if we went two, three days without food and our muscles were going to get dramatically weaker, we're going to shrink and our mindset would be down, it doesn't make any sense, right?

So I believe there's a protective mechanism and there's various research too with uh the growth hormone right some people say it's not a thing with the fasting i believe it is right where your growth hormone you get into this longer fast can spike a lot and but now imagine you're doing that every day day after day year after year so endeavor will tell you this, people are, you know, when we made this real, people went nuts about it. And it was,

it wasn't to kind of anger people or whatever, but in the past, about a year and a half, I've actually grown over an inch. Now,

what can that, In height? In height. Cool. Yeah. And so, Devin measured me back in the fall

because one of the coaches that I have, I hadn't seen in person for probably about five years. Rehired him. We're out in Montana. He looks at me. He goes, because if you've gotten taller, I said, it's funny you say that. I said, when I used to look eye level to people, now I'm a little bit bigger than them. I said, either everybody else is getting shorter or I'm getting bigger. And he goes, it's got to be the fasting, right?

And I said, I don't know what else it could be. You know, that could do that, whether it's the stem cells or whether, I don't know. But there is something there as far as the growth hormone. That's why I'm bringing that up. Yeah, there's something inside. You know, there's something that all of us have is like a height potential. Yeah. You know, you can walk around slightly differently and be a little taller.

Your mechanics can change a little bit. There could be potential for, you know, growth hormone or stem cells, or it's a combination thereof. I do believe there's some information and I forget some of it, but I think when you're sick, sometimes you're a little shorter,

like legitimately, actually just like a little shorter. And I think it has to do with like spinal fluid and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. It could very well be. There's something I'm curious about this because first off, I do think that like long-term fasting can be beneficial for a lot of people. But, you know, the place where I think I may disagree a bit is that shorter-term fasting doesn't work well, right? Because I know a lot of people who've utilized short-term fasting and lost a lot of body fat because it's been a thing that's helped them create distance between themselves and food and emotional distance between needing food all the time, right? They didn't necessarily need to do super long-term fast to be able to achieve that long-lasting result.

So I wouldn't necessarily say that that can't be useful. But I am curious about this. When it comes to this, why do you think there's such a difference between short-term and long-term fasting? Because again, it's like, I don't think this is bad necessarily, but I do think that, for example, somebody who does a lot of high intensity exercise, someone who's trying to hit the gym hard, they're a power lifter, or they're a bodybuilder and they're trying to have substantial sessions or a grappler who has multiple sessions per week. I do think that it would be a little bit difficult for that type of person to do long-term fast consistently with high output in the things that they're trying to

do. Whereas if they had their fast a little bit shorter and they were able to have food a little bit more often, their sessions would probably be better. And then they'd still be getting the benefit from fasting. And I'm pretty certain that when you have high physical exertion when fasting, that'll actually, things like autophagy, all those things, all those things are, uh, are, are improved because of that exercise versus if you were just sitting around not eating. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I agree every day people should be moving, right? Like I never advocated, Hey, fast and take it easy. Some people say, I'm like, why would you do that? To me, as far as kind of tying it into the primal mechanism,

we're supposed to feel hunger. And when we're in that hunger state or fasting state, we have to sometimes mimic hunting. Like I believe that's essential, it taps into something. Now, as far as the people, they're going back to the mind mapping thing. If you were able to get in all your nutrients in one meal, and let's say it is all about calories, and you had four meals a day, and you had one meal a day, why would you take the more

complex approach? It doesn't make any sense from a habit formation. The simplest route is always the best way to form a habit. So if everything is equal, I would always get people to eat less often because we're trying to form habits. I'm looking at life, right? Now, if you're getting somebody ready for, like you said, a bodybuilding show and whatnot, I still try to get them to eat less often, right? And I believe the big difference, what I've seen is, again, it comes down to the insulin. A book I read years ago, Gary Taub's Why We Get Fat. Have you guys read it?

I haven't read it, but I've heard of it. Very interesting, right? Yeah, it's very interesting. And he goes into the effect of insulin, right? And I really think insulin, something Charles Poliquin taught me, is basically insulin is one of your three master hormones, right? He would say insulin, cortisol, and estrogen. But the only one we can really control

for the most part is insulin, right? Because it's mainly produced when we eat, but it has a trickle-down effect to every other hormone in the body. So that's why I'm an advocate of, I think, the long form, especially over a long period of time. That's the key I always tell people. In a month, you'll notice some changes, but, and I can only speak from my personal experience. Now I'm going on five plus years of it, right? And I'm just like, I don't know anybody that's studied it to that level to have the data. I just go by based on personal experience.

And I do, I mean, I do high intensity stuff all the time, you know, and I personally feel great doing it. I would say most of the time, in most cases, it's advantageous for people to be leaner. Yeah. And I think that because people just struggle so much with trying to figure out their diet, some of what you propose, especially like a 48-hour fast, you know, they say you can't outwork a bad diet, right? But it would be hard to screw up a diet which includes a 48-hour fast and then following some of the rules that you're mentioning. Obviously, someone could ice cream and have brownies and pizza and all this stuff, and they could mess it up, and they could be in a caloric surplus, but if we simply chop out a day or sometimes a day and a half, two days, that is quite a bit of calories, whereas opposed to, I think sometimes when someone does a 16-8,

rather than looking at that they're not eating and that they have a particular window where they're going to eat once or twice in that window, they're like, I get to eat for eight hours. And then it becomes like and and i do agree like if you're doing a longer term fast it should be an event there should be multiple plates and bowls that you get to kind of eat from and you should have a nice variety of food um but if you're uh not experiencing the longer fast it's kind of harder to do that yeah uh unless you have good energy output and unless you have a good amount of muscle. Yeah. It's very difficult. You know, it's what I find when people, you know, so we talked about dry fasting a little bit in our workout, but before even dry fasting, if people really wanted to get lean, like

what I've experienced, especially that first summer. And then when I have clients go through it is if they can commit for a period of time, 72 every week, right? Like that is powerful for fat loss. You're getting into deep states of fasting. And now, like you said, you're cutting out three days, right? So now you got four days. You're not gonna eat seven days worth of food

for most people in four days. To some people will challenge that. I can do it. I know you can. I know you can and I can too. So some people, and so here's the thing too,

though, going back to the metabolic rate, I get to, like I eat a feast, man. Like it is a lot of, it's a spectacle a lot of times when I eat, right? Like show,

Devin would tell you, we go out and it's like a scene of like, and it's just awesome though. Like I feel awesome. I love my relationship with food now. And the way I do it, like the fruit is a big thing for me.

I haven't been able to out eat it. So I use myself as the guinea pig as far as if you're just looking at calories. But again, I think a lot of that has to do with how metabolic rate can really get ramped up, right? And I think the only way, I know they say, okay, put on muscle, it's going to boost your metabolic rate. It will to a small degree. It's not a massive impact, but by eating more, right? By eating more. Gotcha. One thing I actually wanted to kind of mention was I sent a clip to Andrew I hope this actually

is right because I've heard GSP talk multiple times about fasting I hope this doesn't have any fucking music behind it let's see

I haven't eaten today the coffee you gave me is the first thing I have so when will you eat it's 12.24 right now after this I'm gonna I'm gonna go train

with Freddie Roach and then I'm gonna eat and then you'll eat and then I'll eat and maybe I'll eat another time I'm a to go train with Freddie Roach. And then you'll eat. And then I'll eat. And maybe I'll eat another time. I'm a late eater. That's one thing. I'm not too good.

I don't like to eat too much early during the day. I'm not really hungry. I used to eat because everybody ate. But now I'm like, I'm not going to eat since I have discovered this. I don't eat when I'm not hungry. But my body acclimates to it. And now it's very easy. I can eat once a day.

It's no problem. Like right now, you know, I could do it. And I think it's good to be hungry in a way. I remember the doctor said something to me. He said, would you rather be like a lion that just had a full belly or an angry lion? I'm like, as a fighter, I'd rather be like a angry lion. And it makes sense to me. If you look at nature, it makes sense.

You know what I mean? I mentioned that clip because I've noticed too, and I think anybody who does this for a little bit will realize when doing grappling while being fasted, George didn't mention in this clip, but it was on the Lex Friedman podcast. He was talking about he nowadays, he wished he did it in the, when he was fighting the UFC, he wished he didn't eat before fights because he fights nowadays. And he's like, I feel so much more focused. I feel so much sharper. I

feel like I feel like I flow better. And I can, I can attest to that too. And one thing is, is somebody from the bodybuilding side of things like Elaine Norton, listening to something like that, they'll be like, ah, that's, that's, it's bro science or whatever. But I don't think we should discount the things that people who do like martial arts or these things feel when they're fighting other people. You are very in tune with how you feel when you're fighting somebody. And you know, when you feel better, you know, when you feel worse. And if there's athletes who are like, I actually feel sharper

when I don't have food in my stomach when I'm fighting another individual, maybe we should take into account what might be happening. Because when you're fasted, cortisol increases a bit and that's not necessarily bad. No.

Gets you focused. Yeah. Right? Adrenaline, all this stuff. Exactly. So it's like, that's one of those things where you can definitely use it

for performance. It's like, I don't eat before competitions. Yeah. That's like, I don't eat before competitions. That's one thing I don't do. So, you know, these things shouldn't be undermined. They shouldn't be undermined. You probably know his name, the kid that fights UFC, Michael Muscemi or something like that.

Oh, Mike Musumeci. Musumeci. He does one meal a day, you know, packs it. He's not a big guy, but he's shredded. He eats a lot, yeah. World-class athlete. You know, packs it. He's not a big guy, but he's shredded. He eats a lot, yeah. World-class athlete. You know, I think it can't be undermined when people say it's bro science and all that. Again, go back to the biofeedback.

Go back to the person's experience. You know, it's all about the individual experience. I think what GSP said there is super important because he mentioned he eats because everybody else eats. So he probably never really cared that much about, I mean, he doesn't look like a guy who cared about food that much. You know what I mean? And so I think that he was just going off of like, oh, all the other athletes are eating, so I'm going to eat. And he didn't really realize he had another option. And I think that's what's cool about this is like there's other options.

You know, you can try, there's a lot of different ways to lose body fat. There's a lot of different ways to be in great shape. There's people that track their macros. There's people that track their calories. They weigh their food. Other people tend to just body fat. There's a lot of different ways to be in great shape. There's people that track their macros. There's people that track their calories. They weigh their food. Other people tend to just weigh themselves. Some people go on a carnivore diet. Some people like to fast. It's just nice to know that there's a lot of options because navigating this is really difficult. And if it was easy, we wouldn't have a country that is full of people that are overweight, wishing that they could figure out a way to get a handle on this.

And I think that sometimes it just takes drastic measures, takes something really, really drastic to make a change. I agree, a thousand percent. I do want to mention this too, because I know you've done a lot of research on this, but we just had Chris Palmer on. You've done a lot of research on this, but we just had Chris Palmer on. Chris Palmer is somebody who uses the ketogenic diet and aspects of fasting to help people with these types of disorders, right? And he was mentioning that in Russia, they utilize a lot of fasting to help with certain things. There's a spiritual practice too. And the thing is also everywhere else in the world, it's used in Eastern medicine. It's used in Africa.

A lot of people do a lot of fasting, long-term fast and prayer. My grandma would do multiple seven-day water fasts along with my mom. We would fast and pray, right? These things are just done. And these people are like, wow, I feel a benefit. Oh my God, I feel so good. But when it comes to like how we look at it in America, we look at it as just like, oh, that's just something that, you know, they're uneducated. There's no science behind it. But when populations see how powerful that type of practice is, why are we fucking discounting it because of research or some fucking, Atiyah says that it's not good to do. You know what I mean? I feel like it's so ridiculous. This shit's been done for centuries, man. Centuries. I know exactly what you're saying. I'm not saying that we have to do

it all the time, but I'm saying there's power there. There's just incredible power. And I tell people with the fast thing, I'm like, look, most people will approach me because of weight loss as their initial. I said, that's just the tip of the iceberg when you get into this. What happens with your mind and the spiritual connection and going inward and just everything gets enhanced. But yeah, culture's forever, all over the world doing this, but people want to discount it because of the research or whatever. And it's like, well, why would the pharmaceutical industry

or any of this stuff study long-form fasting? Like, they just put out that study, which who knows what- Calls like heart attacks or something. Yeah, and I'm like, come on. I'm like, who is actually believing this? Like that, what would he- So they're not going to put out the stuff or put the money into research and something that could bring supreme health. I love that poet and same about these other cultures.

There's wisdom in that that's passed on. Yeah. I think when pressed, I think Peter Itea and Lane Norton, when they said, look, you got diagnosed diagnosed with cancer what are you going to do and they were like fast a thousand percent interesting a thousand percent like if i ever and i had talked about this at a seminar i did because somebody's um uh husband or something had cancer she said what do you do what would you do i said i'll tell you what i would do based on all my research is i would

do as much dry fasting as possible like as much as i could stand and then as much water fasting on top of that right i would increase uh my baking soda you know i'd like to put that in the compound baking soda makes this more alkaline a lot of people will say too where's the re i'm like just try like i've had people cure their um indigestion and stuff very quickly right with baking soda have potassium or something in it too right well i put so in the in the juice compound we make we do potassium salt you know calptic sea salt and baking soda so it's a little uh like the snake diet exactly electrolytes yeah a lot of stuff from coal. So with the cancer,

the fasting, urine therapy, I would do all day long. Yo. Yeah. What's that? Drinking our own pee? Drinking our own urine. Why, dog?

Fuck, fuck. So I'll give you, I'll give you the, Oh, man. Dude, just like the fasting. Okay. If you look at the research on it, it's still done in many parts of the world.

Okay. Urine is the thing that is studied, and they don't tell you this. The most studied thing by big pharma and the medical is urine. There's over 2,600 enzymes, hormones, nutrients, stem cells in your urine. It's crazy. But the reason I say with the cancer, B17, which I think you can find apricot seeds as well. And B17 is incredible as far as an anti-cancer. So that's where I would go with that

as far as that's why I would have it in the protocol. You need to be breathing through your nose at night for better sleep quality because your nose humidifies the air you breathe. It filters the air you breathe. And when you're breathing through your nose, it allows you to be more parasympathetic, which allows you to be calmer.

But a lot of us, and myself in the past included, breathe through our mouth when we sleep. And when you're breathing through your mouth, you have a higher heart rate, you wake up with a dry mouth. It actually makes your dental issues worse and your sleep quality becomes much worse too. That's why we use and we've partnered with Hostess Shape

for such a long time. Because no matter if you're using a CPAP, if you have a beard or whatever you're dealing with, if you're able to breathe through your nose when you sleep, your sleep quality will be better and everything else in life will get easier. Your fitness habits, your nutrition, et cetera, because your sleep is quality because you're breathing through your nose. So get Hostage Tape on your mouth and Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at hostagetape.com slash powerproject, where you can receive

five packs of hostage tape for the price of three. That's almost half of a year for the price of three. That's again at hostagetape.com slash powerproject. Links in the description, as well as the podcast show notes.

What's dry fasting? Can you give us a scoop on dry fasting? You're not going to let us go into the urine a little bit more? We can go into the urine more. I'm joking. So the dry fasting is exactly like it sounds. You're not doing any fluid, right?

And you have two different versions of it where you could do the hard dry fast, which is no water contact as well, or the soft dry fast, where you can bathe and you can, you know, take a shower and all that. So you have two different realms. Dry fasting is incredibly powerful as far as disease and whatnot within the body.

It's amazing. And the Russians have done a lot of researching on this where I think that one of those doctors, he actually went upwards in that 16,, 17 day range, you know, of no water. So dry fasting, if you look, so there's a lot of healing principles to it, right? And then as far as fat loss, if people wanted to use that to accelerate your fat loss, your body can produce a liter of water on its own each day, pure clean water. But where does it get the hydrogen? It gets from the fat cell. on each day, pure clean water.

But where does it get the hydrogen? It gets it from the fat cell. So it accelerates the fat loss. So dry fasting, you have to be, it takes a level of, the next level of maturity with food because now you're cutting out water too, right? And it's really just, is your mind ready for that? So that's what dry fasting is.

And maybe, like maybe you want to have some precaution going into that, maybe making sure that you're having good nutrients and stuff beforehand. Yeah. If you can make sure you're electrolytes and you're drinking that juice compound leading up to that. And then that's where, like the first day of a dry fast, my workout's fine. But you start getting into a longer dry fast, two, three days, you're going to see performance drop with that. So just be mindful of that.

Go for a walk. You know, just keep moving. Keep the blood flowing. I think you were saying it's like three times more effective. So even if you were to do 12 or 16 hours of dry fasting, maybe it equals out to be like two days worth of fasting or something like that. Yeah, that's basically all the stuff I've read on it. And the cool thing we were talking about before too,

last year I was doing 48, you know, like my regular, but dry. Then after a certain amount of weeks, I cut it to a 36. But when I would reintroduce water and coffee that Tuesday morning, so I still had 12 hours or so to go in the fast, the dopamine rush, like the feeling, I would feel fantastic. It feels like I'm not even fasting. So it's a cool way you could incorporate it into regular fasting if you want to extend out water fasting. Now, when we're just talking about fasting in general, like some people are confused about like coffee, diet soda, bone broth, what's your stance on some of that? So I like to stay away, coffee, I look at as fun, right?

The more chemicals something has in it, right? And I always try to go to organic stuff like that. But if you look at diet soda, okay, it's calorie free. But if you pour that on the hood of a car, it's going to eat away the pain if you leave it. So I said, what is it? So I look at, okay, what is it actually doing to your body? So coffee, tea.

If people need to do bone broth, I don't incorporate that a lot, but I think it's a great thing people can do if they need to have that feeling. Dr. Fung, who his whole clinic, all they do is reverse diabetes, left and right, to fasting. And he has them incorporate the bone broth throughout the fast. So I don't think it's going to have any negative implications on it. Be mindful of stuff like the energy drinks that got a ton of stuff in them. Just because, again, your liver and all this has to detoxify all these things. Right?

So I'm mindful of that stuff, but I prefer to, you know, black coffee, water, tea in your fast. Signs during a dry fast that you probably should stop. Man, signs during a dry fast. I think if you really start feeling something with your heart, like that sensation, which I've had before when I've gone the other way with too much fluid and kind of washed everything out of my body, that would be the main thing. You might get lightheaded, stuff like that, but something that's to be expected. Just a curious thing too with that with that heart thing that you mentioned i don't know but i would assume if somebody feels that

they're like okay i want to get some water and they might just like pound electrolytes it probably isn't the greatest idea to pound a fuck ton of electrolytes two or three days right no yeah they they their books the phoenix protocol and uh i think it's a science of dry fasting written by the russian doctors they say when you do a dry fast you don't need your body the books, the Phoenix Protocol and I think it's The Science of Dry Fasting written by the Russian doctors. They say, when you do a dry fast, you don't need to,

your body regulates all this stuff. So you don't want to just start putting in sodium and all that. Eason, just have some water. Your body's already been

figuring all this stuff out. So yeah, that would be a big mistake. Okay, cool. And it would be the same with food too, right? Because like, again, I mean, my first mistake when I did, not a dry fast, but when I did a long-term

fast for the first time, my first meal, I was like, I'm so hungry. So I ate a lot. And then an hour later I was like, because I just ate too much. It made me nauseous. Right. So when reintroducing food, you probably also need to be slow with reintroduction of everything. Don't just go out for a party. Right. Yeah. And I've had clients that, you know, they're getting results, but I say, well, then their stomachs start bothering them. Okay, what are you doing? Well, I'm having chicken wings for dinner,

like stuff like that. And it's all right here and there, right? But with the, yeah, with the dry fasting too, I was telling Mark before when I did a three-day hard dry fast about a year ago, when I went to reintroduce my fruit and all that, for the first like 15, 20 minutes, I was very sore, like everywhere. My mouth, it was a weird sensation.

My throat, and that went away. But it kind of, and the reason I'm bringing it up, I think there's kind of like an auto-regulator too. If you eat the good nutritious foods, you're coming off a dry fast, your body is going to kind of dictate what you can take in, you know, and what it wants. But you got to, and that's why you got to be in tune with it, right? I wouldn't recommend a dry fast for somebody that doesn't have a lot of experience with regular fasting. What you got over there, Andrew? I'm curious. When I have broken a fast, I mean, I've never really done anything above a 24-hour on accident. It's like, okay, I'm just going to do 16. It's like, oh, I missed lunch. And it's like, here comes dinner. It's like, well, we're almost there, so let's just keep going. But what's going on in my body when I start to eat and I start to get tingly everywhere? I don't know if you've ever experienced that, but it feels weird it's weird. And maybe at first I'm like,

am I going to pass out? Like what's going on here? It felt like I maybe overdid something. I don't know, to be honest with you. I've had a couple of people tell me they've gotten sensations like in the back of their head and whatnot. I don't, it could be, I don't know, man, it could be the energy of the food, right? Because everything's energy within the body. So it could be some of those type of sensations. Where are you getting tingly like in that? Yeah, it's sort of like, you know, when your arm falls asleep and it's starting to get the blood flow back into it. So when it could be tied in,

this is how I like to try to tie this stuff together as I get feedback from people, is I don't know if you've experienced with the longer fast where you get cold, right? Oh, yeah. When you get into a longer, like when you first start, it's very common. You're just going to be cold. Very cold, yeah. Very cold.

So your blood flow, and that's why I started fasting back in the day, your blood flow is going to go in towards the visceral organs, right? It's going to prioritize that, which means it's going to be that typically where people get cold, it's the hands and the feet, the extremities. So maybe when you're breaking the fast, you are getting that blood flow that's rushing back there. That would be my concept. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I mean, I notice right now, like if I eat dinner too late, I start to shiver and I get way too cold. So I don't know,

maybe I got to eat more. It's very interesting. Yeah. But also I'm curious, like who is fasting not for? Well, I get the question a lot with kids, right? And people say, well, do your kids fast? We have three little guys at home. They don't fast necessarily, but kids, I think, are much more intuitive with eating if we allow them to eat when they're hungry, right? And not eat when they're not hungry. So kids, you know, I wouldn't force it upon them or necessarily recommend it even. But maybe not even force them to eat either.

That's it too. That's the thing. Hey, eat because it's breakfast time. You push food towards them and they run out with their brother or whatever and play. You're like, okay, I guess they're not hungry. That's exactly it. And that's what I mean. They're very intuitive with that.

You have to be like type 1 diabetics. There's a different way to fast. But I would definitely recommend it for them. But they've got to be mindful and they've got to be working with their doctor on it. People that need to put on massive amounts of weight for one reason or another, you know, because it is going to be hard to get the nutrients in if they're doing that.

But there's not, for me personally, there's not too many people I don't recommend it for. At least they try it and see. It's going to, again, the insulin, the main population I'm dealing with, right, a lot of dads and whatnot, but the insulin resistance is the root cause of every disease. It comes down to that.

So essentially anybody can benefit from some fasting if we start getting that more to insulin sensitivity. Like not just the 16-8, but like maybe a 48 or a 24 or even OMAD. How would I structure that into my week if, being very selfish here. So Mondays and Wednesdays are my hardest days. Those are two-hour sessions each time. And then Tuesday and Thursday are just lifting sessions, which are a lot more calm. And then Friday morning is a lighter jiu-jitsu session. which are a lot more calm. And then Friday morning is a lighter jiu-jitsu session.

So in that, would I just push my longer fast towards the end of the week when things starting to kind of lighten up or lean into the harder days to get more benefit from it? That's what I would do. Again, looking at the structure of it, it's whatever you do on Sunday. That's typically where I'll have my cheat meal or whatever, my off day.

I think getting into the routine, I find that a Sunday to Tuesday, for most people, works really well with their schedule, right? As far as is there any social obligations on Monday night or whatnot, right? Right, yeah. That's what I've been doing. Yeah. I think it works perfectly for most people, you know, when they do that. But I would push it to the front end and then monitor because, again,

if you're stocked up, let's say, after Sunday, your Monday performance is going to be fine. Right. Right? And then you're going to break Tuesday night. And then, so you have nutrients in you for the Wednesday roll. But that's what I would do. Okay. So then it would be all, I would still eat Sunday and then break it on Tuesday night?

Yeah. So I like to go with the 48th, Sunday night. Yeah. The only night I'm not eating I like to go with the 48 Sunday night. Yeah. The only night I'm not eating when I'm doing my regular plan is Monday. That seems way too easy. Yeah. I was complicating it in my head. Yeah.

You can really cheat the system too by like discontinuing when you eat earlier in the day. I found that to work really well. And then I end up with a really good night of sleep. Oh, yeah. By just not eating, you know, like maybe past like 3 or 4 o'clock. And then you get all those extra hours, then plus the 8 hours of sleep. And it's really, if the day is busy, especially like a Monday for most people, it's pretty busy.

It's really not, it's not that bad. There's that one time at night where it's 6 or 7 o'clock and everybody else is eating. Well, you're kind of pissed, but eat some pickles. That's what I do. Yeah, you do that. Bubbies pickles, by the way. Those are the best yeah refrigerated pickles rather than like the pickles just on the shelf because the refrigerated ones are fermented okay extra crunchy too yeah yeah um how about headaches i i've i've recommended fasting a couple people and they will say that they tried it but as they're at work at their desk or something they'll

say they start to get headaches if they don't consume something. And then they kind of, you know, just fold in right there and then never explore it ever again. Yeah. So any advice for that? Yes, definitely. So going back to one of the earlier things I said, food is a drug, right? And it fits the definition of a drug. So what I've seen now, I've probably had 500 or 600 people go through the specific five-week plan. So I have a lot of feedback from people. The headaches, shakiness, and all this. What I've seen through my research, it's withdrawal from the drug of food. It's a withdrawal symptom.

Now, when people go one, two days, like if they make it to day two, right, when people do my, they're going to do it because they paid for it and their mind is ready for it, those symptoms go away very quickly compared to if you're withdrawing from another drug, but they go away quickly. You might get a shakiness, right? And a lot of people say, I get low blood sugar. And I tell them, like, if you really think that you're going to get low, use a glucometer. I can almost guarantee you when you feel that shakiness, right? And a lot of people say, I get low blood sugar. And I tell them, like, if you really think that you're going to get low, use a glucometer. I can almost guarantee you when you feel that shakiness, your blood sugar is fine.

It's withdrawal from the drug of food in majority of the cases. And it goes away quick, tell them. Like, it's not going to be a chronic thing. What have you found for people with, like, in terms of, like, HRV, sleep? I know you track a little bit of your own stuff. What have you seeing there? So, with the clients, because I've got the watches now and all this stuff, right? A lot of the feedback I get, majority of it is sleep improves.

The HRV will improve for the people that track it. There are some people where the sleep gets disturbed. Because they're like, they feel so hungry. I'm starving. I can't go to bed. Yeah. And you have that, like Poliquin used to call that, the tired and wired. Like you want to go to bed, but you can't.

But a lot of people- Which is interesting because maybe it's telling your body like you don't need to sleep. That could be. So that's a possibility as far as do we need as much when we have the oxygen running cleanly through the body. Like I know on my regular week, Tuesday, Mondays is my busiest day. And I go into Tuesday and I wake up early, work out with one of my buddies. So I don't get, that's the night of the week where I get, like I think this past week, it was let's say five, five and a half hours, which is not the best, right? But I pop right out of bed, feel refreshed. It's no big deal. So when people say, well,

I can't sleep. And I'm, when they first started this and I'm getting up at four in the morning, I'll always go back to the biofeedback. So, well, how do you feel? How's your energy? Well, it's great. I'm like, then don't worry about it. It's no big deal. Right? So, but you will see, I have seen sleep improve. uh, the HRV. I've seen a lot of blood work improve. A lot of people will give me blood work to look at big time with that, uh, you know, getting the HB1AC, uh, triglyceride stuff. So a lot of improvement I've seen. Curious about this. Um, you mentioned TRT earlier. How long have you been using TRT? And I think some people, when they hear that, they'll

be like, well, okay, that's why he's keeping muscle. But what would your response to that be? So I started using TRT in 2010. So at that point, I said, okay, I'm done with competing naturally as a natural bodybuilder. To count my levels checked, I was, I don't know, if you look at total, right, which is really look at free, but if you look at total, let's say it was like 300. My doc said, all right, let's do it. You know, let's put you on, let's see what happens. So pretty consistently since that time, minus when we've wanted to get pregnant a few times,

pretty much one ml, like your therapeutic dose, right? 200 milligrams, 250 milligrams a week. Sometimes I'll up that a little bit, depending what's going on. But at that level, for most people, unless you're like a hyper-responder to it, you're not going to pack on like massive amounts of muscle. And the thing that I love most about the testosterone is all the androgen receptors on your brain. You're just going to feel better. I tell people. I say, you're just going to feel better.

Like, life is now in high def, right? So, that to me is the huge thing. But I do get a lot of people, well, you're using TRT. I'm like, all right. But if you look at bodybuilding pictures from when I was competing in 2007, 2008, I was probably bigger then. That was a natural bodybuilder starving myself. Oh, shit. Right?

So, it's like, I just look at that. I think it's an easy fallback for people, right, to do that. But I'm a big proponent of men getting their test levels checked and supplementing with that. I think fasting kind of sets you into the moment. You know, it's like kind of slows everything down. I think that's maybe what people hate about it. I think food is a pacifier. You know,

you get to kind of suckle on the food for a little bit and helps kind of lower the stress. What are some other things that you do? Do you meditate? You and I talked about like Kratom, we talked about Kava. Do you have some things to like, I guess, like get out of your own head, get out of your own way for a little while? Yeah. Well, I think the fasting, like you said, does pull people into that where it's you and you, right? Like now all of a sudden you got to go inward, right? Right. And love to create them.

You know, I started using that a little over a year ago watching your brother's video. We talked a little bit before. I like as far as, because you get into these longer fasts too, you start to get much more in tune with everything going on. Like you just pick up, there's less blockage, I feel like, in your sphere. Love doing, I started, well, I shouldn't say I love it, but I started playing around with nicotine, which is interesting, right?

It gives me that little bit of focus. And there's a lot of interesting research on nicotine as well. What do you use? You use like those Zens or do you use something else? So I use the ones that are called Juice Head. They're a little bit stronger. Are they also the things you put in your mouth or? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Devin's not the biggest fan of it, but there's even research when you look, like, it's really interesting where they've completely disproven that nicotine is addictive at all. This was not a true thing, but if you look, and I can send you the research on it, the guy did a whole thing on it. Cause that's the main concern people have with it, right? It's highly addictive. And the nicotine is not the issue when

people were smoking cigarettes. It was a 500 chemical additives that were in there right and the tobacco yeah it wasn't the nicotine so anyway nicotine um as far as the mind we started doing last year i have to get back to you because i've fallen off the transcendental meditation which i really like i don't know if you guys have experience with that it's i think it's awesome and i love it because it's like a system two 20 minute sessions a day you get your mantra that they give you oh okay i didn't know it was all that. Oh, yeah, yeah. We went to these people, and they taught us. We paid a chunk of change, and they taught us. I don't know how they come up with your specific mantra,

but they come up with that. Was it real weird? Would you say it was weird? A little strange. You meet these older guys. You're like, how weird is this going to get? Yeah. It was a little strange, but I like to experiment with stuff.

So the transcendental meditation, as far as getting into the mind, we talked about, I love microdosing. I think that's a really good thing for most people. He's not talking about fitness, guys. This is psilocybin. What's your experience been with that?

It kind of, when you do a microdose, it kind of opens up, I think, creativity. It just gets you that little bit of euphoria. In some ways, almost like I feel from Kratom, you know, where you just feel a little bit better. My experience, the first time I did a big trip was 2020. Right. So in June of 2020, my buddy came over and we planned it out. Devin took the kids. My mom had our daughter.

Cause well, Devin took the boys kayaking. My mom had our daughter who was a baby at the time. And we did a lot. Like you were saying how much you did it. Like we did. I, and I had no concept at that time of what, what is it? I thought you do a mushroom, right? That's what happened to me.

Yeah. Looking back on it. So an eighth is a big trip, right? We did about a half. And I was literally like in another dimension. And I got into a bad spot, like where I felt like they weren't coming back. Like I was, I was in another,

and I was like, I can never get, and I was just tormented. And the time slows down dramatically. And when I, yeah, it was tough, man. And when I came out of it though, I still got something out of it was I was taking them for granted. You know, I was so focused at that point in the midst of COVID, we were one of the gyms that opened the gym, despite the governor's orders. There was a lot of attention, a lot of emotional drain. And I was so focused on that stuff that they're right in front of me, the most important thing.

You know, so that was my take. So it served me. And then after that, I used to do like one or two big trips a year where I now just sit outside, sit there with my Bible, sit there at the fire pit by myself. Everybody's sleeping. And I haven't had a negative experience since then. You know, I just feel peace and connected. So that's been a little bit of my experience with psilocybin. Cool.

Yeah. Have you messed with transcendental breath work? I did. I don't know if that's what it was called. Is that what you're doing? Yeah, you're kind of like hyperventilating. Yeah, I have. I can't remember their that's what it was called. Is that what you're doing? Yeah. You're kind of like hyperventilating. Yeah, I have. There was, I can't remember their name.

I went through their course a couple of winters ago and that's pretty cool. Like you get really high doing that. Oh yeah. Like big time, but it'll last for, I don't know. It doesn't last too long. No. But yeah, you get into another dimension with that. But it was, I think when I was doing it, it was like 20 or 30 minute sessions like it was a little bit of a commitment yeah the ones that I've been doing I haven't done it in a while but um they're like almost an hour but you're

hour yeah you are going on a journey oh yeah and I've had the craziest psychedelic experiences doing that like a hundredfold compared to like taking a high dose of psilocybin yeah so that's I wanted to throw that out. How often are you doing that? I was doing it on a regular basis, but like initially I was, you know, being shot out of a rocket into outer space.

And then as I started working on more and more things that I was getting out of it, the experiences started to like kind of calm down. So then I just calmed down the frequency. And then, so yeah, I've actually been, this is kind of weird even saying this,

but like I've been hesitant to go back in there since, because I haven't done it since my mom died. And so I'm like, I know it's something I need to work on. And I'm like, it's almost like when you need to go to therapy and you're like, I don't want to know all the answers that they're going to tell me right now. That's cool, man. What's going to come out when you go,

but you'll get what you need, man. Exactly. That's why I'm hesitant because I'm like, something weird is going to happen to me after this. Yeah, and I think that's with the psychedelic stuff, a lot of people, that holds them up because you're not going to be in control. That's right. You're in control of what's coming

to you in that moment. Yeah. That's cool though, man. Have you seen or heard some of the stuff that Cole Robinson has been talking about lately where he's talking about eating sugar and stuff like that? I haven't seen it lately. I love Cole's stuff, but I haven't seen what he's talking about. It's just super interesting. Like people are, you know, people are always mad at him because he's always like kind of yelling. He's calling people names and everything. So it makes

sense. Always yelling. Always yelling. He's always yelling, always swearing. But yeah, I guess like what he kind of stumbled upon was that like during these bouts of fasting, at least for him and some of the people he's working with, is that they can have some energy. And the energy he's been utilizing is sugar. Okay. And he just keeps yelling at me. He's got these like bags of sugar and he's like, I'm eating sugar. During his fast. During his fast.

And I think basically what it is is that, you know, because people are not eating any fat, if you kind of just think back to when you're a kid and your parents like, no, no, no, don't have another soda because we don't want you going crazy, right? You used to be responsive to sugar. And as we get older, like that really dulls down and like, you could have, you know, some honey or you have a soda or something. You don't even really, it could have caffeine and sugar in it. It does nothing to you. So I think what's happening with some of the people he's been working with perhaps is that they're getting resensitized to some sugar. And so he'll have them take a little bit of sugar just to help give them energy so they can still have a good output. That's amazing.

I don't think he's saying like to have 700 carbs that way. Yeah, yeah. Just a little bit. No, and cole's a great i think cole was great and he's he's the perfect example of he is creating his own research he's trying to stuff and seeing right and that's the direct knowledge i think is so powerful a lot of people for free yeah no cole's great and he's the only angry canadian i think in the history of canada yeah yeah no he's uh at least he seems angry maybe great. And he's the only angry Canadian, I think, in the history of Canada. Yeah.

Yeah, no, he's- At least he seems angry. Maybe he's happy. He's mad. Yeah. He's mad that people are being fat. Yeah, I think so. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Where can people find you?

Where can they find your book and everything like that? So thepandamanofficial.com is the website. And then thepandamanofficial on Instagram, pandamanofficial on YouTube, TikTok. And if you guys reach out, just shoot me a message. I get back to everybody that reaches out and see how I can help you. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.