Mark Bell's Power Project - MBPP EP. 637 - Mind, Body and Pharmacology ft. Joe Sullivan & Jake Benson

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Today's episode features two incredibly knowledgable coaches, one of them being an All Time World Record Holder, Joe Sullivan and Jake Benson. They are the hosts of the Performance Education Discussion Podcast. Jake knows all the in's and out's of pharmacology and shares info on compounds you may not have ever thought about. Joe just broke his own All Time World Record with an 837lb squat and is known for the viral video of his bar bending around his back during a squat. Today they share tons of knowledge on training philosophy and PEDs. Special perks for our listeners below! ➢Vertical Diet Meals: https://verticaldiet.com/ Use code POWERPROJECT for free shipping and two free meals + a Kooler Sport when you order 16 meals or more! ➢Vuori Performance Apparel: Visit https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order! ➢Magic Spoon Cereal: Visit https://www.magicspoon.com/powerproject to automatically save $5 off a variety pack! ➢8 Sleep: Visit https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro! ➢Marek Health: https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: http://drinklmnt.com/powerproject ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Subscribe to the Power Project Newsletter! ➢ https://bit.ly/2JvmXMb Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

Power Project family, how's it going? We have another amazing podcast for you today with two awesome dudes, Joe Sullivan and Jake Benson. These two are the hosts of the PED podcast or the Performance Education Discussion podcast. But we did end up talking about PEDs on this episode and a lot of stuff that you guys have probably never heard about. So stay tuned for that. But if you don't know who these guys are, Jake has an extremely strong deadlift, but he is a brain. This guy has a mind on him for like biochemistry. It was really crazy. And Joel is a biomechanics wizard along with breaking his own all-time squat world record from 822. And he just broke it at seven weeks ago with 837. Joel is extremely powerful and he's

going to be talking about his comeback in this podcast and a lot of other amazing things that will help you guys out. So without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this amazing episode with the host of the PED podcast, Joe Sullivan and Jake Benson. Power Project family, I want all of you guys to look good when you work out. You see, I have a problem. I don't like things that aren't quality. And if they're not quality, I don't take care of them. And the awesome thing is that we partner with Viore clothing. Now, the cool thing about Viore is that it's apparel that I almost feel guilty wearing in the gym.

But the great thing and the reason why I love Viore is that, number one, the clothes feel, look, and fit amazing. But number two, even though they're super high quality, they don't break the fricking bank, right? So you can get super high quality clothing and not go into debt trying to get it. Andrew, please tell the people how to get it.

On top of that, we're going to give you guys an awesome deal with 20% off your first order. Head over to Viore.com. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash PowerProject. And you'll receive 20% off your first order automatically, no code needed. Links to them down in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. Head over there right now. PowerProject family, this episode is going to come with some heat. So with that being said, here's a medical disclaimer. Mark Bell's PowerProject podcast does not contain medical advice. We are not doctors, nor are the featured guests. The contents of this

podcast, such as videos, text, graphics, images, and other material are intended for entertainment, Thank you. Although we make efforts to keep medical information on our channel updated, we cannot guarantee that the information on our channel reflects the most up-to-date research. Consult your physician for medical advice. Always seek the advice of a physician or other qualified healthcare providers regarding a medical condition. Never disregard or delay seeking professional medical advice or treatment because of something you heard on a podcast. Before taking any medications, over-the-counter drugs, or supplements for herbs, consult a physician for a thorough evaluation. This podcast does not endorse any medications, vitamins, or herbs, nor do we condone the use of illegal drugs or using drugs for an unintended purpose. A qualified physician should make a decision based on each person's medical history and current prescriptions. Enjoy.

So make sure I'm not fucking stuff up until we start going here. Or maybe I should. Maybe things should be screwed up. Right sure I'm not fucking stuff up once we start going here. Or maybe I should. Maybe things should be screwed up. Right? Yeah, things are screwed up. How did you guys meet? What's this, I mean, it's obvious. It was love at first sight.

I mean, let's not. Right, dating app. Oh, okay, dating app. Okay, good. Brian and Kiar don't know about that. Saw his profile. Yeah, it happens. Had to super like or whatever.

How'd you guys meet? I guess the first time we met was at the showdown. The first showdown. I followed you on Instagram. I think we followed each other for a couple years. Then we actually met at the showdown and then this year's showdown too. We both competed.

Yeah. That's pretty much it. It was like the whole like internet like not even internet friends like i we hadn't really talked but like i knew who you were because he was competing we compete in the same weight class like which is funny because he's my coach and like my best friend but it's like we compete against one another realistically um but uh i i first followed you because i was like who the fuck is this 220 like why are you so good at deadlifting like fuck this guy you know just but like i followed him and then we met at the showdown and i'm like oh

this is a really really nice guy he's really cool and like seems to know what he's talking about and then like over uh going into this most recent showdown um uh probably like in march about the same time i moved to las vegas but like you contacted me about like setting up some like phone calls because i do like phone call consults and whatever. And Jake just wanted to talk training with me and we're talking about stuff. And then I, in that conversation, cause like we hadn't really talked at,

at, uh, like extensively before. And then I am, I'm talking to him. I'm like, Holy shit, this guy is really smart.

You know, it's like, this guy is really, really intelligent. Like he knows what he's talking about, but the thing, like we compliment one another because he's incredibly cerebral and like we're both we're both fucking weirdos but like he is incredibly cerebral and like knowledgeable when it comes comes uh to terms of like biochemistry and like uh the chemical like everything involving

like the shit that is above my pay grade and i'm kind of like the dumbed down intellectual meathead version of that. No, that's not true because I feel the same but the other way. He's really good at like, you know, you have this nerve here and it connects here and you do this and it activates this bullshit stuff. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like the biomechanics guy whereas he's like the chemistry guy. Well, biomechanics and then biochemistry. That's like the two. We're almost the same person, though, because

we both actually got accepted to Brown University. Yeah. Ivy League school, by the way. We both went to a religious school instead. Really? I always call myself the Mormon version of him, because I ended up going to BYU. I served

on the mission and everything. That's why I didn't go to Brown. You do some soaking over there? Fuck yeah. Yes. He knows what it is. He's so proud of himself. Are you embarrassed? I wish Kiara was here.

No, no, no. It's good. It's life. It's good, yeah. And then he ended up, what was the school you went to? John? Catholic school. Yeah, John Carroll University. you went to? John – Catholic school. Yeah, John Carroll University.

I went to a Jesuit college. Okay. Because I was in Roman Catholic school ever since I was a kid. I was active in the church. I was a fucking – I did volunteer work and shit like that. And it's like I'm – that's why I talk shit to God. Before the podcast started, I was like, fuck you, bro. Because we have a very weird relationship.

I think he's great, but it's like, I'd fight him if I could, because he's a bitch, but I love him, but he's a bitch. Yeah. Hey man,

he's sober too. And he's still saying, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's right here. He's with us at all times. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But, but yeah, so like we're, we're, but it, well,

it's like any, anything like it, we're kind of like the like any anything like it we're kind of like the uh like it's the same like type of light shown through a different at uh shown through the prism at like a different angle like i came out this way jake came out this way and we just like we really compliment one another because like both of our both of our significant others will like continually bitch because we just we talk way too long we have a pot like we have our own podcast what's it called uh the ped podcast it's performance education and discussion but it's obviously a play on words because performance enhancing drugs and we talk about drugs a lot

yeah but um like they'll continually shit talk us because we'll be like okay short episode or like oh we're only going to talk for i'll be on the phone for like just five minutes and then it goes for like an hour and a half and then we end the recording and then we continue to talk for an additional hour and it's like fuck i gotta go do shit you know like i can't keep doing this but we're very very very talkative because we're both probably on the spectrum to some degree well i told you i have severe adhd so i'm like all over the place but so joe you were doing a squat years ago and it was pretty amazing because the you bent the bar so much that you couldn't even get the weight back into the rack. And people saw the video, and I think a lot of people were like, oh, shit, that was a pretty clever way that you got out of it because you were able to hook one side of the weight on the rack and the other side you couldn't get to.

And so you just kind of dumped it off your back and it looked like you remained uh totally safe it looked like it was no it didn't beat you up too much but that's not what happened you got pretty injured from that right yeah yeah exactly and that's uh that's why uh that's why jake and i and you can see on the video um that's why jake and i uh or one of the things that basically like caused jake and i to uh talk about this to the extent that we have is because if you watch the video, I do hook the one side and visually I look like I'm fine. But what actually happened in this video, I herniated my C6 and C7 and caused a compression injury to my thoracodorsal and dorsalscapular nerves. Most of the brunt of the – so you see I twist right there. It ends up, a lot of the weight is singularly on my left side.

That right there caused a lot of damage to the dorsal. Yeah, I punched that right arm out and the left side gets all of the brunt of the weight for a half a second, but it's long enough to push that shoulder down and do some serious damage to the dorsal scapular nerve. Dorsal scapular nerve plays a big role in scapular control, like shoulder blade control, and the use of your lat muscle and the long head of your tricep. That same year, my bench, like I have the old all-time world record squat in the 220 weight class right now, squatted 837 pounds.

But my first all-time world record goal in the 220 weight class right now. Squatted 837 pounds. But my first all-time world record goal was actually the bench press because in that same training cycle, I benched 575 pounds. At that time, the 220 record I think was like 571 or 572. But after that happened, I experienced an extreme drop-off in strength. There was no injury. There was no pain. Like there was no tangible injury. There wasn't any pain. There wasn't any like hurting or numbness or whatnot. I literally just was failing to contract my tricep and my lat.

And I went from being able to bench 575 to dropping to being unable to do a push up without winging of my scapula. And I couldn't lock out anything more than 225 pounds. Couldn't, couldn't feel my arm whatsoever if I put it overhead. And that's been it. Like we talked about this previously, like it's like, why are you doing the things in the train in training? I didn't know how to get past that injury. I talked to a lot of, a couple of different physical therapists, neurologists and whatnot. And like, no one could really provide me with any significant answers. So I would back off, I'd back off then come back and like it sometimes it would

work like the first showdown that we competed against one another i bench press five five hundred and seven pounds that was after this whole yes yeah so they're it's like so it's like they'll be like six months where it doesn't fucking work and then six months where it's okay and then six months where it doesn't six months where it does whatever and but but the thing about it was the longer it went on the length of this like the dysfunctional time was getting longer and longer and longer because this past showdown i was only able to manage uh managed to bench 446 pounds and it there's significant lag in that left tricep and i'm sure i was starting to like lose that sensation entirely and worried about like tricep atrophy and whatnot.

But so that's, it's like my viral video. I'm the guy that bent the bar, but that's a really like defining moment in my career. But it's exciting too, because like we talked about, we have the philosophy of training, like why are you doing the things that we're doing? Now I can actually, I've been talking to you guys about I'm implementing a lot of different stuff to actually come back from this injury. And recently I'm actually feeling progress.

I can feel contractions again. I hit 300 pounds on a close grip incline, which previously, as close as six months ago, I couldn't do more than 185 on that movement. And that's because of this guy because he has that knowledge base that complements my own that gave me a little – a path that I didn't even know was there. So that's the one we're on right now. And like the next beat I'm doing, it's to be determined, but I'm very excited for it. So, yeah. So, Jake, this is – it's wild because you said you went to a neurologist, a bunch of PTs, and nobody could help you solve

this, but you came up with some shit that has allowed him to progress. What different thing, how did you help him tackle that differently? I think it really just comes down to caring. I think a lot of times, and I don't want to put every doctor on a blast,

but I think sometimes you come in and you have this symptom, you have that have that symptom whatever and they like to kind of group people together and it's like you know well i've seen a lot of people like this it doesn't really get better or they kind of have like some set protocols that they go through like if you have this you get that if you have this you get that it's just you know a a b but um and i don't think it's really necessarily like a lack of of knowledge or a lack of studying with some of the doctors or the people that you visited i think it's just the lack of of caring being able to sit down and say okay what is happening here um there's there's

plenty of information out there right like what can cause a nerve to not function and if you know if you're resourceful enough you can go figure that out it can be a b c d through z right and then you start kind of knocking it off okay it's not that that's not what happened it's not this that's not what happened okay i think it's probably this right and then so we made a game plan basically just sat down and said i think this is this is our best bet right and what was it um well it's a really really in depth i mean okay it's really in-depth. I mean, part of it. It's in progress. So I don't really want to put the cart before the horse because me being the egotistical asshole that I am because I just said fuck you to God. Read into that however you want. But I want to come back and not only break my all- time world record, but I want to annihilate it.

Like because this is the first time I've been hopeful. Like, I mean, you've been through a million different fucking injuries. Like you have you have those were like this. It's not career ending, but it's career defining. It's like this. This one is going to be, if not insurmountable, incredibly difficult to work around. That's what I felt since 2018. I was like just getting what I can,

like clawing and scratching for these small little things. But now that I've been working with Jake, like I don't, I don't really want to like call my shots, but like I told him if I, if I hit a bench PR on the platform, I'm going to kiss him on the fucking mouth. Like, I don't even care because like that was so unbelievable to me in in previous experience that like now that i actually feel like i'm making progress like i'm i'm waking up and i'm excited to go train like my pressing movements because it's i'm progressing every single fucking time and it's it's like jay can go into more detail but like i don't i don't want to go into the whole thing but a lot of it is uh not only not only like the way that i'm training uh focusing more on like the

the mind muscle connection or like the neuromuscular uh side of things uh but it's also like brain chemistry because like i was talking to you guys before uh we started the podcast like i started a lot of things at 20 years old i made the jump from a tested federation to an untested federation. I've been on androgen since that time. I'm also a stupid white kid that likes to have fun. So I've taken a couple of recreational drugs on occasion that are very, very dopamine. They cause a lot of dopamine release in the brain. And I'm also I can't even remember what the fuck I was going to say and that's the fucking ADHD.

I'm also diagnosed severe ADHD and I've been prescribed Adderall since I was 20 years old. But looking into the history is important to kind of help you solve for this problem, right? Yeah, and dopamine is... The doctors never fucking asked me that.

That was never a thing. They're like, oh, just do some nerve glides. Oh, you're not making progress? Okay, that's fine. Like, then you're fucked, you know? do some nerve glides. Oh, you're not making progress? Okay, that's fine. Like, then you're fucked, you know? Right, but looking back on it, if you look at the neurotransmitters in your brain, the biggest one that causes muscle contractions or your motor reflexes is dopamine, right?

And we see, we go into his past and we see, oh, you've been really destroying your dopamine receptor, basically, right? It's kind of like if you grab a barbell, that deadlift bar, a newbie comes in and grabs it on a fresh new bar, it hurts, right? Your hand hurts. But over time, you build a callus, and that's the same thing with dopamine. It's like when you start using a painkiller, like a lot of people have chronic pain, they get on a painkiller, an opiate, first time they take it, it probably makes them a little high, right?

Like, oh, I'm happy, whatever whatever and all of a sudden it stops working it's the same thing right like you become sensitive and you build up calluses to whatever you're doing in life in general and so looking at him a lot of you know recreational drug use um some specific as's that that you know are working on your dopamine receptor as well yes yeah okay tremble on it acts on the dopamine receptors as well. TRENBALONE. TRENBALONE. TRENBALONE. Yeah, steroids. TRENBALONE. Yeah, okay. TRENBALONE. It acts on the dopamine receptors,

and it's like if you run TREN too long, like that's so basically, again, I'm sorry. No, you can do it. But it's like I would always find that adding TREN in would help my contraction. I would be able to push harder through the tricep, so I was very reliant on adding TREN.

I don't know. Can I talk about this on the podcast? Of course. I don't fucking know. We have a PED podcast, so I don't know if I don't know. No harder through the tricep. So I was very reliant on adding. I don't know. Can I talk about this on the podcast? I don't fucking know. We have a PED podcast, so I don't know. You can talk about anything. That's fine. Because I'll put myself, I'm open about anything. I'm whatever.

But because if I can help anybody like make better choices and actually think about what they're doing, that's what we're here for. But I like I would find that TrendBalone helped me going into meets because it helped me get more out of the contractions in my tricep. But because it was like, okay, six months would be good, six months would be bad, it started being like seven months good, five months bad, eight months good, or eight months bad, five months good, whatever. Like the good was getting less and less, and me not knowing what to do, I would stay on Trend. I would keep pushing the trend. And there was a period of time where I was on trend alone for over a year. And that's completely irresponsible. Like no one should fucking do that.

But I was trying to get better. I was chasing my goal. I was clawing and scratching like I was saying. But the thing is that it acts on the dopamine receptor and then all it's doing is like oversaturating, oversaturating. So like the high, the high that I was getting, the high that you get, it's not high anymore. It's not, you're not getting the benefit. The benefit is like it goes away cause it's not novel. You're oversaturated. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's really the only difference is I, I just and we just had a conversation just like friends, right?

Sat down, okay, what's your past? Where could this be going? And that kind of knocked out that list. Like we have this list of things that could cause his symptoms. And we start seeing like this trend of, okay, we've had a reliance on drugs, right? We've had a dependency on drugs. We've had a lot, a lot of dopamine stimulation. So how can we get that back?

How do we reverse that? And that's where the plan came together. So then I put together this plan, and I came to Joe and said, this is what we're going to do. This is the plan, basically a year-long plan. The first 8 to 10 weeks is going to go like this. Once we hit that point, this is what we're hoping for. At the end of the first, I don't know, 8 to 12 weeks,

we should be getting this result. And if we're not, we need to change it. What was like, I know it's so deep what you guys are talking about right now, but like what were you looking for him to feel? So his big thing is the tricep, right? He can't use his tricep. So at the end of the eight to 12 weeks, we were hoping that we would not have atrophy in the tricep, but actually be able to grow and use the tricep, right? Like we, we don't see that lag. That's what we're hoping for is that we're not seeing that lag. And then we also wanted him to be basically a little bit more aerobically in

shape. And so we're coming up on that mark, which we set it as eight to 12 weeks. I think it's been eight and we're seeing like, we're getting exactly what we wanted. Right. And now we're like, okay, cool. Now we kind of get to go into phase two. So phase two actually starts today. Yeah. Right. Which is kind of cool. We're going to do it here today,

which is really fun. I'm actually going to load my spine for the first time since, since the showdown. Wow. So like squatting or deadlifting or whatever, whatever he told me to do. So, but that's the thing.

Like, that's why I have, I have no, like, it's so easy to call you my best friend because like we talk every day and it's the fact that I trust you because it's the care. He obviously cares like he I'm sorry. He obviously gives a fuck, you know, like he cares about what I'm doing.

And because he has like I can feel that that buy in from him. It's so easy for me to trust him. And then I'm like it's one of those things because people will ask me like, oh, well, when's the next competition? And it's like, I me to trust him and then i'm like if it's it's one of those things because people will ask me like oh well when's the next competition and it's like i'm not i don't know i i want to do the showdown next year but i'm not in any rush to because i want to be where i want to be before i get back on the platform and it's it's not as if i'm taking time off because there are a lot of people who are like oh i'm just stepping away a little bit i every single training session every time like last or we, we coached Hunter at the meet, everybody went

out, had like, got, got drunk and like had fun and whatnot. But me, I'm just chilling. I drank a bunch of diet Coke and I smoked a little bit of weed and I'm just hanging out, you know, because every single thing that I do right now is, is, is done with an objective, with the end goal in sight. And it's easy for me to buy into that because I'm seeing the progress. The plan is working so far. And not only that, but I can just feel how much care Jake has for the plan and for me in general. How do you work your way around some of these things? Because you still want to be strong. You're still training.. How do you work your way around some of these things?

Because you still want to be strong. You're still training. So how do you work your way around? You just don't take steroids for a while or you supplement with something else? I mean, I know the answer is not to not take steroids. So how are you guys kind of figuring out how to navigate this? And is like coffee cut out and monster drinks and things like that? Well, do you want to take a stab at that?

Yeah, sure. So basically it's all done reasonably. It's not like getting off of everything cold turkey. When I first started doing this, it was like I still would take an Adderall occasionally because I literally couldn't function. When I'm not managing it, it triggers a lot of, a lot of depression, a lot of anxiety. It's not, it's not just like, Oh, I'm a spaz. Ha ha. Funny. You know, it's literally, I can't handle my own anxiety. I can't shut my own thoughts up. And I, it causes, it's basically like it causes paralysis by analysis because I'm just, I'm, I'm freaked the fuck out all the time.

I'm always, always hyped up and worried about nothing. Uh, so it's just about doing it in a manageable way. But, uh, that like a lot of things that we added in, like whether it was herbal supplements, uh, that or lifestyle or lifestyle changes. Yeah. Let me kick you off super quick. But so like AAS is like, if we, if you want to be you want to be specific about the AAS, what is the AAS doing? Androgenic, anabolic, steroids. Steroids, yeah. We'll just say steroids.

Sorry, that's my fault. But it has a very specific purpose. So what can we do to replicate that purpose? For him, another part of the plan was we wanted him to be bigger. So we're taking down his steroids, his total steroid use plan was we wanted him to be bigger so we're taking down his his steroids his total steroid use but we wanted to get bigger and leaner how does that happen right well there are other ways to go about it right so we started using insulin and growth

hormone we started implementing other things a bunch of lifestyle changes and it all kind of the training and the peds and the uh and the nutritional has to comply, right? Everything's timed out, you know, for a reason. And he's able to grow still. Like we're up to 250 pounds. He's just as lean as he's ever been with a lower amount of steroid use. And then to answer that question, like how do you go about life? You still want to enjoy yourself. You want to still have a life. It's just about, and we've said this like a million times today, but dependency, right? It's not so much that, Hey, you can't go out and you can't have a drink. You like, you don't, or you can't ever have nicotine. You can't ever have like, whatever. It's just like, we can't do that every day. Right. Like if you're going to do it, like,

you know, after a meet, you know, and you're celebrating with your friends or whatever, that's, that's an okay time to do that. Right if that becomes like oh man we did that yesterday let's do it again tonight that's where we're having an issue right so and he knows that too it's like he's not doing that every night or actually at this point you're not really not doing it ever right but but it wasn't ever like you can't have anything it was like you know let's not become dependent let's not make this a regular lifestyle thing can i ask both you guys this? Because for athletes or younger guys that want to be stronger or maybe they're starting to get into substances, et cetera, as far as dopamine is concerned, because it doesn't seem that a lot of people are paying attention to that. Like the amount of pre-workout stimulants that they take, the amount of hype they need, nose, tor torque, all these different things that may be adding up. In the moment, it may seem fine to take two scoops or three scoops of pre-workout and

whatever else is going on. But what have you guys noticed, especially with your personal experience, what do you guys think is the long-term effects that maybe people don't realize that's going on with their dopamine? And how can they start doing things right now to counteract those things from even happening and just make sure that they have a long, good training career? So I'm going to start with the second part of that. What can you do now to avoid those effects? A lot of that is being able to get yourself down, right?

So everyone's always like, up, up, up, up, up. I need to wake up. I need my coffee. I need my Adderall. I need my whatever. I got to be able to function today, up, up, up. I need to wake up. I need my coffee. I need my Adderall. I need my whatever. Uh, I gotta be able to function today. I want to feel energized. I want to feel productive. I want to feel like clear. I want to whatever. Right. But if you, if you can focus on being able to, to bring yourself down to like, and this is through like conscious breathing techniques, it can be through, uh, you know, a million other things.

And it's just like, a lot of it sounds goofy. What are you, a monk? It's a lot of hooey, hippie, dippy bullshit. What else? Conscious breathing? Meditation, blue blocker lenses actually dictating your wakefulness. Rising and resting

based on your circadian rhythm. The sun. Being a little weird. Being a little bit of a hippie. People will hear the thing like every like people will hear this and they're like oh these guys are fucking weirdos you know but it's it's literally nature like we we are meant to wake up in the morning when the sun comes up and start winding down and and decompressing when the sun goes down so how like this is one of the biggest things that help that's helped me and i it kind of bridges into the first part of the question, like, how can you make it sustainable

or like, what, like, what are you going to be feeling if you're just like trying to go up all the time? Like it's, it's what everybody feels. You wake, you wake up, you go to bed and you're like, fuck, I need to sleep. I need to rest. And you crash and you, you just crash and fucking die. And then you wake up and you're like, oh my i'm still fucking tired like i need to i need my goddamn energy drink i need to take an adderall i need to fucking i need to wake up you know i gotta go train i gotta be i gotta go function so they do that but like with the analogy that we were saying earlier it's it's it's a roller coaster life is a roller coaster you need to a lot you need to allow like a drop down so that you can go back up to the high that you want to get to. If you're on a roller coaster.

You can't stay high all the time. The funnest part is coming down, right? You get to the top. You finally come down. It's exciting. It's exhilarating. But you can't go down forever, right? You have this period of time where you go back up and it's slow.

And you need that time period too. But if you can really focus on bringing yourself down, having those restful periods, right? You're conscious breathing. You're off your phone. That's a really big one. Me and my wife, we don't even bring our phone into the bedroom ever. It's outside.

We plug our phones in outside. The blue light blocking glasses are going on around like 6 or 7. Whenever you go to bed, we start just putting it on a couple hours before. but you're bringing yourself down. And then by the time you wake up, you're like, man, I feel rested. I don't need coffee. I don't need this. Right. Again, like coffee is not the problem. It's, you can't have it every day. Like if you need that every day, you got to like, you know, look at yourself and say, why do I need this every day? How have I gotten here? And that, and that right there is like what I feel feel now because like I – my normal was always up. I was always up.

Even when I was resting and relaxing, I was never actually in that – is it parasympathetic? The rest and digest or like feed and breed state or whatever. Like I never allowed myself to get there because I was always too up. Like I never allowed myself to get there because I was always too up. And now that I've actually allowed myself to go back down, like come off the super excessive dopamine producing, whatever the fuck things like I didn't know that I could feel this good and not be on drugs. Like I call this thing the twilight zone where you're not up, but you're not down. You're like that wired tired. You're like, dude, I really need to sleep.

Wired tired. Yeah, I'm really tired, but but i can't fall asleep i don't feel rested maybe even fall asleep but you wake up and you still feel like you're wired tired right like your eyes hurt you feel brain foggy you feel like ugh right but that that's what i call the twilight zone that's you trying to stay up too long like that is and there's like it's a fine line because some people you have to get a lot done like i'm sure with you guys too you know you're busy all the time it's like i have to get these things done and sometimes that's going to play an effect but you also want to be careful with it make sure it's not this is not a normal thing everything we do like in life just has a lot of like idle time you know and if you look like, just look at anything in the world, you know, the world is

primarily made up of water, you know, outer space, it's fantastic, it's cool, there's a lot of stars and a lot of suns and billions of planets and billions of things out there that we don't even really know about, but what is it comprised of mostly? Nothing, or at least stuff that we can't see, right? Like it's comprised of space there's a lot of space and time and you think about your lifts you think about the lifts that get posted on instagram or the bent barbell situation um you know how many you know warm-ups did you take with the bar how much preparation happened before you even touched the bar um not even for that day but like the week previous and the months previous, you know,

to you trying an 800 pound squat or whatever it is. So I think, I think it's important for people to recognize that being idle and kind of feeling like blah, that should happen here and there. Like you're not really designed to be happy all the time as much as I would love to see people smiling all the time. That's not real life. You're not designed to be that way all the time. Yes, it's great to try to be that way as often as possible. And you might be able to kind of fake yourself into it by smiling to the first couple of people you see in the morning and having just good habits in those senses. But there's going to be a lot of ups, a lot of downs. And even in between that, there's just a lot of nothing.

I just got done traveling. I traveled with my wife and then I came back from that. And then I traveled with my whole family, with my kids and stuff too. No one comes back from vacation. They're like, the flight, the amount of flying and the amount of time that went by for my travel day was 18 hours. Then I had to wait for my hotel room because it wasn't ready when I got there. I had to wait for the rental car.

Like, no one talks about any of that. They're like, it was fucking dope. It was sick. And they tell you about all the quick little highlight things, the things that were fun, the things that were actually memorable. A couple of years from now, I won't even remember any of the actual time that I traveled or whatever. I'm only going to remember the good times. And so I think a lot of times, I think, especially this day and age, I think that people think that you're always supposed to be happy and that it's abnormal to feel anxiety or saying

abnormal to feel stress. Maybe it's abnormal to feel anxiety or saying abnormal to feel stress. Maybe it's abnormal to feel tremendous amounts of it. Maybe different people feel different amounts of it. And so that should be something that you might look into because maybe your depression is uncontrollable. But for the most part, we're all supposed to have a little bit of all those things. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

But some people, they get these symptoms. I'm anxious. Everybody gets anxious, right? But then they think, I need a prescription to solve this, right? Or I need this. I need to be able to feel happy all the time. And that's so true. You don't need to feel happy all the time. There should be time. And taking advantage of that time, I really like the space analogy. Most of it's nothing, right? And everyone thinks they're so busy, but there's so much time. If you look at it, you're like, well, I just sat on my phone for like 30 minutes right here. And, and, and sometimes, man, you can, you can do stuff with that. Like a little meditation, a little conscious breathing, a little, or like sending a message to your mom or your grandma or something like making just like, does that take any effort? No, not

really. Right. But you're starting to make use of that time and you know that can be very helpful yeah and and two things with that like it's like you're not you're not going to remember the the the annoying parts of that vacation it's it's always the highs that you remember but but you have to have those little annoying hiccups or like the the your rental car getting delayed and you're like oh fuck god damn it you know like this is fucking stupid you have you have to have as dumb as it sounds and as cliche, a lot of these – but cliches are – they're there for a reason. People say it for a reason. You have to have like peaks and valleys. Like life is peaks and valleys.

Training is peaks and valleys. Drugs are peaks and valleys, whatever. But you have to have valleys. You have to have that dip down so that you can have that peak, and that's that roller coaster visual. You have to go down so that you can have that peak, and that's that roller coaster visual. You have to go down so that you can go back up. And you have to – when you're up, you have to be prepared to go back down again. You can't have that high all the time. Nothing compares to like the food that you eat after – you competed in bodybuilding?

No, powerlifting, yeah. Okay. I thought you did some bodybuilding as well. I train like it, but not – yeah. Yeah, nothing compares to that meal that you get, you know, when you did spend all that time, you spent all that time,

you know, starving yourself away from those delicious foods for a while, then you have an opportunity to eat them again and that's like the greatest meal of your life.

Well, like collegiate wrestling, so like same thing. Oh, yeah. Oh, bro, like,

that's why powerlifting cutting is, it's easy. It's cake. But like, it's like, I still remember after States when I got seventh in Michigan. And I didn't even do that well.

But, like, I did good because I got all state. But I remember I had two vanilla Frosties from Wendy's and two large fries. And that was the best fucking meal I ever had because I was just as soon as it hit my mouth i was like god damn it was it was amazing okay you said you did trend for a year yeah um and at this point in time you were you're doing quite a few things you you it seemed that at that point you're like more is better okay um and right now on youtube and everywhere, like people are being very transparent about drug use. And some people I think are just maybe spreading, I don't know, sometimes misinformation about things. Uh, people are going to go down that road and they're going to do it anyway.

What are the things that they need to be thinking for as far as safety? Because, you know, we've been seeing all these bodybuilders dying heart attacks a lot of people are it still seems like it's kind of the wild west as far as information is concerned about these things so what do people younger lifters because younger guys are especially super interested in it because it'll get help it'll help you get bigger faster help you get stronger faster how do they need to be thinking about this because more is not always better right so what are some things that maybe you dealt with or you've done where you're like okay or how do they need to be thinking about this? Because more is not always better, right? So what are some things that maybe you dealt with or you've done where you're like, okay, avoid this, avoid this, avoid this.

And how can they go through that realm safely? Well, so it's hard to say that because like everything that we do, there's always danger associated with what we do. Like it's, you have to understand that there's, I mean, it's all, but to that point it's dose dependent like most things are dose dependent and they're all individual because like you can kill yourself with caffeine you can take too much caffeine uh anything in excess can can result in like really really bad

shit but you need to be proactive about it like we on the podcast that we do, we're very – we speak about blood work a lot and actually having like a – keeping an eye on and having – not just getting blood work after a cycle and being like, OK, I'm fine. Getting consistent blood work done so that you know what your normal is, seeing a trend and basically understanding, OK, this is where I was at after this. This is where I was at after this. Just for one second, something that's really important with people getting their blood work done, don't shop around for the answer that you want to hear. Right. Right. Yes.

Be very cautious of that because I think that's what a lot of people do. Like I might send the blood work to you. I might send it to you. I might send it to another friend. And I'm just waiting for someone to say, hey, dude, you're good to go. You can take more shit if you want or whatever the circumstance is. But I see a lot of people doing that. So I think that that's something that people need to be cautious of.

Yeah, absolutely. And blood work isn't always the answer. It doesn't always tell you everything. Because blood work doesn't test brain chemistry. It's not always going to tell you, like, okay, you're – if I got blood work done, it wouldn't let me know. Like, okay, you've literally had, like, if, if I got blood work done, it wouldn't let me know like, okay, you've literally had like an excess of dopamine for eight fucking years. Like you won't know that you, it's, it's all a factor.

It's being, it's, it's the philosophy of training. It's the philosophy of philosophy of life. It's having a why, like, this is why I'm doing the things that I'm doing. And this is why these things are happening. It tells, it tells you or gives you an inkling or an, a thought or an idea as to why some of the things that you're experiencing are happening it tell it tells you or gives you an inkling or an a thought or an idea as to why some of the things that you're experiencing are happening and and it's just being proactive about it because like and i'll tell you it's not it's not fun being on uh like a dose of trend uh for an entire year like you it's insomnia it's it's irritability it's it's

whatever and like uh we were talking – this is above my pay grade. But like with – in terms of like T3 production, natural – like thyroid production or thyroid function paired with like the dopamine shit going on with Tren. Like that's how you get into – The ACTH stimulation. Yeah, that's where you get into the irritability factor and whatnot. You can mitigate those things but it only goes so far and if you get into the realm where it's like okay these are the side effects of this so i'm going to take these things to combat these side effects but now these things i've been on them

too long so i'm going to take these things to combat these side effects and then you're on this thing and this thing and this thing and this thing and it all started because of this one thing and then it's like okay well why are you on this one thing for a year? And it's like, uh, fuck, just because I am. Right. And it's like the whole thing unravels. And it's like, fuck, like you're killing yourself or putting yourself, you're giving yourself a much higher chance of getting fucked up somehow because you just decided to do this dumbass fucking thing because you're too stubborn to back off and talk to somebody who's smarter than you and devote time to a real off-season. What made you stop?

Desperation, honestly. It wasn't a health scare. It wasn't anything like that. It was literally desperation because I – well, okay, so two things. Do you think you could say the same thing about being on it for a year, that it was maybe some desperation of like you're just trying to be the best as fast as you possibly can be, right? Absolutely. And that kind of leads into the thought that just popped into my head because I'm really, really grateful for Brianni in this aspect because like I've dealt with depression. I had a suicide attempt at 17 years old like i was i've i've dealt with i've been through a lot of stuff i've had a very

interesting life and we don't have to go into all of it but it's like i've experienced a lot of things a lot of death a lot of loss a lot of whatever um but i never thought that i would be here for a long time i was always the type of guy that just kind of I didn't really think that there was like not that there wasn't a future for me but like I didn't see like I didn't think growing old was like in the cards for me but then I'm really really grateful because I met Brianni and I this she is my perfect partner honestly like you guys saw us out there like I look at her and I'm like, fuck you, dumbass. I love her.

You're cute. Yeah, it's cute. It's dumb. I hate it. But I see a future with her. And that is part of the desperation because I still want to succeed at what I'm doing. I still want to be the best in the world. That's always the goal. But I also have become desperate for the life after powerlifting too.

I see kids. I see growing old. I see shit other than this at this point. Oh, man. The wheels are falling off, man. Yeah. You're getting soft and you're going to start to admire people that are dads and it's fucking

the music's going to be too loud you're not going to be able to you have no idea we're already there you know I think that's with kids so that's something they don't see you know you're 18, 19, 20 years old

and you see freaking Larry Wills doing some crazy whatever why is it always Larry Wills? why is he so strong? what's that guy's deal? he's a demigod poor guy is he really? did you's that guy's deal? He's a demigod. Or a god. Is he really?

Did you find that out? Yeah. Distant cousin. Okay, it's starting to make some sense now. What's that say about you, dude? I'm joking. Yeah, right? Yeah.

I'm joking. But yeah. Yeah. No, and they see that and they're like, well, I've heard through rumors that Larry's running this or this guy or my idol. I saw JoeSquad837. He said he ran Trent. So, freak, I'm heard through rumors that Larry's running this or this guy or my idol. Or I saw Joe's squad, 837. He said he ran Trent. So, freak, I'm going to run Trent, right?

And they don't think about that long term. When you're 18, 19, you don't think about the long term. You don't think of yourself at 50, 60. You're just like, dude, I'm going to be a badass. I want to be a badass right now. And so they put that all behind. But I think a lot of these powerlifters or any athlete, bodybuilders, whatever, you get to 28, 29, 30, and you start realizing, I don't want to die early.

And they wish they wouldn't have taken these routes that they had in the first place. So to the younger generation that's kind of getting into this and they see this guy doing this or looking that way, I would say just be patient and try to find somebody that is smart enough to just say like, hey, you know, this is the first step. And a lot of times it's not steroids, right? There are a lot of PEDs out there that are not steroids that are not going to give you the long-term, you know, abuse that steroids will. And so it's like, you know, there are a lot of avenues out there, but steroids are just kind of like the porn of it. you know, abuse that steroids will. And so it's like, you know, there are a lot of avenues out there, but steroids are just kind of like the, the porn of it. You know, everyone likes to look at that and be like, Whoa, yeah, that's, that's freaking awesome. That's going to be quick.

That's going to be, you know, two questions for you guys. Um, how long after you started lifting and developing and going down the route of strength and muscle, how long did it take for you to hop on something? I, so seven years I started, I started my first competition in powerlifting was in 2007. And then I hopped on in 2015. So a little, a little over seven years.

A little over seven years. Um, because, and this is like, the reason I went on is completely selfish reasons. Like it was actually the same year that I met you in passing. And I was like, I was like,

I was no, no, it's not his fault. But, but, but that I'm sold him some out of the back of my car. Yeah. Right.

Here's a slingshot and a little bit. But, but what, cause I, I saw you at the arnold i was just like what's up at the slingshot booth and i saw him and i saw a i went and met a bunch of the guys at the animal cage and again like this plays into the fact that i'm an egotistical asshole i was i was this way when i was natural like it's it's part of part of my fucking brain but

but in that year i went to the animal cage and in in meeting those guys, it wasn't like – it wasn't as if I met Jesse Norris. It was like Ben Seeth, Grant Higa, Dan Green, like the guys in like 2014 that were like big, the YouTube animal underground, Jeremy Hamilton, Herbert, like those guys. It wasn't that I saw them and I was like, oh my God, these are my heroes. They're larger than life. I saw them and I shook their hands and I was like, they're just people. They're just like me. If they can do it, I can do it. Fuck them.

It's literally like I was joking in the car ride over. I'm powered by spite. I'm just like, if they can do it, fuck them. I can do it. Fuck these guys. If they're that fucking good, I can fucking be up there. You know, like fuck this. I'm that motherfucker.

I'm going to go fucking do that, you know. And then this is after I competed at Raw Nationals, and nothing against USAPL Raw Nationals. It's a great put-together meet. But I saw the guys that were winning those meets, and then I saw the guys that were in those meats and then i saw the guys that were in the animal cage and i'm like those guys are cooler i don't kind of like hanging out with those guys i think i want to go hang out with these guys and that that was it it was like they're

just like me so fuck it yeah i'm gonna do what i need to do to be with those guys so that's what i did so seven years of lifting and training and and i and i got i got to like it was i recorded a 14 a 1499 total uh 181 in the us apl so like it was it was dedicated training like i i hadn't mac i'm not gonna say i maxed out my genetic potential but it i was training with the purpose so yeah yeah for me i started I don't know, when I was like 13. I didn't start powerlifting until 2016, so like five years ago. And I did my first. So I actually ran college track.

Then I went into powerlifting. I think it was probably the end of 2017-ish is probably when I started. And it was actually just because I got blood work done and my test level was super low. So my one doctor prescribed me TRT. Then I was like, well, this makes me feel good. So what is Morgan going to do? And then you just kind of go down that rabbit hole of, yeah.

What do you think are reasonable amounts? Because now it's all over the place because people, to break world records, they'll basically kind of take whatever they feel they need to. They'll get into taking a lot, right? But then now with more TRT out there, we're hearing people having good results with 100 milligrams and stuff like that. What have you found for yourself maybe that's been a sweet spot, you think, of feeling good and being able to still lift well? I don't think you ever need to exceed, well,

and this is all coming out of my ass because there is no dose, right? It's a loaded question. Right. It's always, it depends because for some people, a very small dose can really throw you off, but other people, they can take a ton and seem to get no side effects. So this is not – but I don't think you ever need to exceed like 800 milligrams total of everything on your peak and definitely not a gram. There's no reason to. I think if you have everything else in your life, your whole lifestyle, your nutrition, and you're taking advantage of other PEDs as well,

I don't think you ever need to go above that or I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah. And, and I, and I can get behind that. But the reason I said it was a loaded question is because it's all dependent on like how sensitive, because when I say sensitive to a substance, like you think like, okay, sensitivity, you mean side effects, but it's not just side effects. It's the effects of the drugs. If you – like another word that everyone likes to use or throw out there or phrase is minimal effective dose. And whenever you hear minimal effective dose, you focus on the first word, minimal. You think like, okay, small, small, small stuff.

But the key word of that little phrase is not minimal. It's effective. Because if you can use the minimal effective dose, that means that you're still getting an effect you're still getting the benefit while staying at a much more moderate dose than most people would would either recommend or would think to stay at uh and still getting the most out of it while not inviting those serious side effects or health effects or like the the the shit that you don't want you know you want to get the most out of it and how do you get the most out of it you allow those valleys you come back down you come off you resensitize yourself through which whatever means whether it's pharmaceutical or supplementation or lifestyle changes or

whatever but you resensitize yourself and like i was was saying, because I'm – I don't – in the past years, I wouldn't – like in probably like the last year or two, I haven't been running like as high of doses as I have because I was the guy that was pinning like a gram and a half of gear going into some competitions being an idiot because, again, like I said, I didn't imagine myself being here for a long period of time. I was in it to win and consequences be damned but now i'm i've been on much more moderate doses and i'm still getting the positive effects and i can still i went and got blood work done after uh this past showdown and everybody was like were you even on anything and i'm like yeah i was on i was on a good chunk of shit, but like, but I had put myself in a position where I was very resistant to the stress of those, uh,

compounds that I added in. And I was very, I, I was, I was resilient. So I bounced back very, very quickly because I've implemented the strategies we've, we've talked about. What were the negative side effects of being on trend for a year? Was there some glaring things that stood out? Life in general. Well, because it plays a role in the dopamine in your brain. It was basically just exacerbating the whole being high all the time. Not high as in I'm fucked up all the time, but it was like I was up all the time.

So even when I was relaxing and resting, I wasn't actually allowing myself to relax or rest. So it was like a constant state of that wired tired feeling. And Trenbolone specifically, it acts on your ACTH. It stimulates a whole bunch of cortisol, which is going to affect your amygdala. And the amygdala is the thing that gives you the fear, the flight or flight. And so when that thing's stimulated all the time, you start not feeling very well. Another thing it does is it upregulates your thyroid. And so upregulated thyroid, hyperthyroidism, anxiety.

You get a lot of anxiety off of that. And so a combination of a couple different avenues with Trenbolone, you start seeing people get those side effects. Did it mess with your pee-pee? Not really. I hadn't really. And SEMA, by the way, he has my penis pump in his car. This is actually legitimate.

I do have it in his car. He's holding it for me. That's amazing. Send me a photo later. Not of the pump, not of the other thing. Or both. That's not as fun. Well, because you guys don't give a fuck I don't know I keep trying to censor

myself but whatever so like think about it dopamine it's a feel good hormone what's that going to do like there wasn't any like dysfunction of the thing but I couldn't reach the mountaintop reaching the mountaintop was really really hard it was like come on

and then you're on trend so nobody likes that god fucking and then you're starting and then you're on trend so you can't fucking breathe and then you damn near pass out every time it's not a party so yeah it's it was it was hard to uh reach the summit so you mentioned brain chemistry um of like and you know they say about the brain for doesn't really finish developing until you're 25 right so guys who who are late teens or early 20s, what do they need to be thinking about? Because that just seems like a bad cocktail of shit. Is there a way to do that safely before you finish developing? No, I really don't think so.

And maybe there's somebody out there that has figured that out, but especially trend-blown. and maybe there's somebody out there that has figured that out, but especially trend-blown. No, I mean, there's a reason. I wouldn't want my kids to start drinking when they're early too because it messes with that. And it's the same with trend. If you're going to start anything under 25, that's already probably not a good idea.

There are other PEDs that you can use and take advantage of, but, man, I don't think so. And maybe there's somebody more qualified that can say otherwise, There are other PEDs that you can use and take advantage of, but man, I don't think so. And maybe there's somebody more qualified that can, you know, say otherwise, but I don't think so. I don't think you should start stuff before 25. I think that's scary. I think that's irresponsible. I don't think you're thinking about, you know, your future very well. Power Project Family, how's it going?

Now, you guys know that we have had so many individuals come on to this podcast, doctors, therapists, coaches, that have talked about the importance of getting your blood work done. Mark's done it. Andrew's done it. I've done it. And when we got our numbers back, let me tell you that we didn't know what the fuck we were looking at. That's why we partnered with Merrick Health, owned by More Plates, More Dates. Derek from More Plates, More Dates. And when you get your blood work done from Merrick Health, a patient care coordinator goes over your blood work and gives you an idea of the things you need to get done specifically for you.

This is why they are the premium telehealth clinic to go to because they don't give you cookie cutter plans. They give you plans that are specific to you, your numbers and your blood work. Andrew, how can people get it? Yes, you guys got to head over to MerrickHealth.com. That's M-A-R-R-E-K-Health.com. And if you are manually checking out, you can use promo code PowerProject10 to save 10% off all of your labs. But if you are interested in TRT or HRT or something that you need additional help with, you're going to be speaking to somebody on the phone. And with that, you can still mention promo code PowerProject10 to save 10% off all of their recommended labs.

Again, that's at MerrickHealth.com. Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. And you also mentioned things that weren't PEDs that guys can use. What did you mean by that? Oh, yeah. So, I mean, they are PEDs, but they're non-anabolic, non-androgenic. Well, I should say non-androgenic. What's the difference between androgenic, anabolic? Yeah, that's a great question. So, when you have an anabolic androgenic steroid, it is very specifically working on your androgen receptor, right? And your androgen, well, I won't get into exactly how a steroid works and all its transcription factors or whatever, but there are other things that can help you grow or help you lose fat or help you, you know. So one of those things, and one of the safest things you can do is injectable carnitine. Injectable carnitine has a plethora of benefits. It makes it, well, I won't get into all of it because I know I'll go into a big rabbit

hole. It helps you utilize energy better or something. It actually makes your androgen receptor a little bit more, what's the word? Almost like magnetic. Receptive. Yeah, it makes the receptor more receptive. Yeah, and so you're getting a better bang for your buck that way. In fact, it sounds weird, but insulin is a great way to go too.

If you're not a dumbass and don't use it without, don't just go start using it. This isn't saying use insulin. Yeah, that is not my, yeah. Tell them about some of the dangers of insulin, by the way, because like insulin, I've heard of some people that just did some fucked up shit. Everybody's terrified of it because you hear the horror stories of people fucking up with it. A very small, mild dose of it. Minimal effective dose. Minimal effective dose.

You don't have to take crazy crazy amounts it's if you can buy it over the counter at walmart is like and i know it's not that's not a good fucking benchmark but it's like it's not it's it's not like it's not it's really like people have tried to commit suicide with insulin and have failed because it's it's your body has like it is naturally produced by the body. So like for me and it's like – again, I'll put myself on blast because I'm simply using a fast-acting insulin right now and I'm pinning 2-IU post-workout. That's a baby dose. What does that help you do? Basically helps with the shuttling of nutrients into the stored energy.

Like stored energy or muscle building or tissue building in general. A good way to think of insulin is like the gatekeeper of your cells, right? Nothing comes into your cell without insulin. It doesn't go in, right? And so using insulin can be very helpful to replenishing glycogen storage in your muscle or even oversaturating yourself with glycogen in that muscle tissue. It's, like he said, very difficult to have a big damaging, life-threatening effect with insulin.

You'd really have to do a lot. So when we're talking mild doses, one, two, I use a really good place to start. You're not going to go hypo. You're not going to have any kind of weird seizure or something with it. It's a good place to start. And if you use correctly, very, very safe, very effective, it can actually help you avoid diabetes. A lot of people worry about if I take insulin,

is it going to be like test where I'm going to have to be dependent on an exogenous insulin? But it can actually work the other way where you actually can give your pancreas a break, especially when you've grown quite a bit and you have a lot of muscle tissue and that pancreas is working really hard. If you do take insulin, you need some carbohydrates to accompany that though as well, right? Because then you could get sick and pass out or even worse, right? Going hypoglycemic.

But that's exactly why a good place to start is one to two IU post-workout because what do you do post-workout? You go home, you shower, and you eat. Take it before you eat. And if you use fast-acting insulin, then it's in and out of your system very, very quickly. So that's why it's like, I think it's irresponsible the amount of people that I hear that are like, oh, it's dangerous. It's going to kill you. It's really, you have to really not know what you're doing. And people do that. I was that guy for a long time. I was like, it's going to fucking kill you. I don't know.

Because I didn't know what I was doing. But if you simply start at a minimal effective dose, take it post-workout when you're going to eat food already, all that it's going to do is increase the efficiency at which the food that you eat is used up by your body. And it's going to just make you recover better, potentially grow more tissue, and just utilize. It's like car actually have people use it pre-workout too, which sounds crazy. Yeah. But you actually use a little bit pre-workout and you can actually learn faster. Learn faster? Yeah, it's kind of a...

Motor learning. Oh, wow. bit pre-workout and you can actually learn faster um it's faster yeah it's kind of a motor learning so like the neural so like the nerve nerve in my tricep how explain it well i mean it's a really long well like in yeah but yeah no it's yeah it can just a little bit pre-workout and you really don't i've even had people do it uh with no carbohydrates in a fasted state a little bit of growth hormone little carnitine little uh growth hormone, you can use that all at once. It's a great fasted cardio or a fasted training regimen. You want to set that up. You don't want to just go start that tomorrow. You kind of want to set up some enzymes and some training before you do that, but it can be very effective. And because you guys were asking about what I'm doing with my training. I'm starting,

and I was like, oh yeah, it's fucking brutal. I'm killing myself. But it's brutal. It's brutal for a reason and it's brutal in different ways because like I will take insulin pre-workout. Like I take it like pre-workout and post-workout. Sometimes I split the dose. It depends on the day. But on the upper body days, I'm taking it pre-workout for the motor learning aspect because what does it do it basically causes the blood glucose

to dump at like drop and then i pair that with my conditioning work to push the blood glue like basically get rid of stored carbohydrates because carbs are stored as glucose or glucose in your bloodstream glycogen in your muscles and your liver and by doing the conditioning work first and the high repetition, high exertion for an extended period of time stuff first, I bypass that energy system. I use up or get rid of all of the stored energy as carbohydrates. So then when I move on to the actual pressing movements, all I am reliant on is the neurological aspect of strength, like the motor neuron firing and like the connection between my actual brain and the musculature.

And that's what I credit with – because I never thought to do this. I didn't know this was a pathway that I could do. But that is what is really a big factor in getting my tricep back is literally just building that neurological connection back with that musculature. It's pretty fascinating in terms of injury. Have you found other things to accompany this as well? Like would it be beneficial to maybe introduce creatine or would it be beneficial to –

are you guys maybe potentially also using some peptides and things of that nature or other types of pharmacology to help this nerve issue along. Yeah, one of them is actually injectable ATP, which sounds like a lot of people don't even realize you can inject that, right? But ATP, adenosine triphosphate, it's the energy that your muscle actually uses. So when you're eating fats, you're eating sugar, you're eating whatever, everything ends up coming down to ATP for the muscle, right? And so one thing that we do actually is use a little bit of ATP

because he's not going to have any energy left, right? There's no glucose left or very minimal because it's very short rest time. He doesn't have time for oxygen to come in and go through all that, you know, the oxidative pathway. So he's creating energy through that pathway. But we have injected ATP. There is energy left for him to move, right? He might feel hungry.

He might feel whatever. All that blood sugar is really low, but he can still contract that muscle because there is ATP that we have injected before. On a cellular level. Like it's such a, like everybody hears like mitochondria is the power as the powerhouse of the cell everybody remembers that from grade school but that's atp is that it's that gas gas and the gas tank so you if you actually use that and that's another ped it's it's it's an external aid but it's not uh not uh androgenic but I'm using it to basically be able to push into that grinding area of

contraction where it's like the slow last rep. Like you do a set of 12 and on 10 it's slow. And you're like, fuck, okay, this sucks. And then one more and you're, got it. And then, okay, breathe, breathe, breathe. Okay, one more. And you finally, that building that. It's there, but you really have to dig deep.

So for him yeah but yeah and then we actually have this special concoction made of of atp and amp and if you don't know amp is the basically a burned out atp that needs to be remade right and so we actually inject him with amp and atp and the amp is four times there's four times more amp than there is atp and this signals to the brain that he's already in a fatigue state right because when there's this much amp out it signals like oh he's gone through a lot of training already so it signals a very specific enzyme to be released called ampk and so when we have this enzyme here it helps build even more atp very very rapidly

and we've already signaled it before he started his workout. So by the time he's getting there, there's plenty of ATP. There's plenty of free energy for him to do this. And we really get to build that neurological side of his training. Are these methods being utilized in other sports? Are you guys aware? Have you heard of other people? Because it sounds like you would be able to get past even some drug testing

with the things that you guys are. I don't want to mention names, but yes, it is. It's actually really popular. The AMP and the ATP concoction, that's really popular actually in professional bicycling. And a lot of actually like, yeah, and I don't want to, I won't throw out names, but like CrossFit, really popular as well, right? It's almost like if you're mentally there, you can just keep pushing yourself.

You know there's stuff there to be utilized. But yeah, there are a lot of these kind of drugs or PEDs that you can't test for. So they're, I mean, they're absolutely being used in probably just about every sport. Yeah, because L-carnitine is an amino acid, isn't it? Or something like that. I don't know. But yeah, it's naturally occurring in the human body. Meat.

Yes. Meat, yeah. You can't test for that. How are you going to test for... So then can you have too much and take it for too long? Carnitine specifically? Just these injectable, like the ATP and the AMP. Oh, yeah.

ATP, if you take too much. Again, dose dependent, you can kill yourself. Because ATP is cellular energy. Everyone remember this. Disclaimer, no more is not better. Right. I mean, you're going to have a hard time finding injectable ATP anyway. Good luck.

But yeah, I mean, you will give yourself a heart attack if you take too much ATP. And it would be a very large dose. But yeah, I mean you will give yourself a heart attack if you take too much ATP. And it would be a very large dose. But yeah, I mean you absolutely can. Because it just – it causes like muscular contractions. It's the powerhouse. It makes the powerhouse of the cell be the powerhouse of the cell. So if you fucking over – if you oversaturate it, you – It's free energy.

It will be used. It's going to be used. It's going to be used somehow. So if you're not doing anything or doing enough to utilize it, it's going to have to get burnt off somehow, and then the heart's going to beat like crazy, and you can run into really bad territory. Yeah, it's not like recreational.

I don't take it. Just sit there and like, yeah. And that's the thing. It's the philosophy of training in life. We're doing it for a reason. Don't just be like, oh, yeah, it's going to help me push harder. I'm going to fucking take it. Don't't be that guy you'll fuck yourself up yeah and then the the another thing that we use for him specifically hopefully you're okay with me

talking about this dude again put me on blast i don't care well it's injectable choline i don't know if i want to bring that up yeah so so the carnitine the choline atp and ampr all in this concoction that we had made, specifically, mostly for him. And now we've found a lot of different ways to utilize this. But that choline is also helping with, it's a big part of your contracting as well. And so this combination is basically giving him, and the carnitine actually facilitates the choline to break that blood barrier. Isn't choline also just like a pill supplement?

Absolutely. Isn't it eggs? Yeah. Alpha-GPC is a form of oral choline. Yeah. Yep. That's absolutely true. But if you inject it, you get to time it.

This is exactly when it's going to come into play. Because whenever you inject anything, it hits the bloodstream faster. So if I take it at a specific time, which is pre-workout, it's going to, like Jake said, the L-carnitine, the choline is going to work synergistically with one another paired with the ATP and the AMP to let me push into that gritty, grinding neurological strength zone paired with the carnitine and choline doing the same thing. So it's like this doing everything with a reason to put me in the perfect position to rebuild that neurological connection. Was this a bodybuilding drug? I think I remember there was like B12 or B vitamin and choline and carnitine. Oh, Mike.

It's in Mike. Right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that's from kind of a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. No, you're absolutely right. It's actually used as a fat burner.

Usually it's in a concoction for a fat burner. I've seen it thrown in with, what's it called? That fat burner one that you have. I can't remember what it's called. Oh, like the super shredder? Yeah, the super shredder. I don't remember what's all in that. But, yeah, it's a very common, like, fat loss thing.

Well, because, like, it's, yeah, like, L-carnitine it what is it what is it helps mobilize fatty acids so so like if you're if you're in a it doesn't like burn fat more or doesn't burn more fat but it helps you like it helps your caloric deficit like you have to be in a caloric deficit but it just enhances the bodily processes like you said earlier it It just facilitates fat loss more efficiently. Specifically, beta-oxidation doesn't happen without L-carnitine. L-carnitine needs to be saturated in the cell for that to happen. Increases the efficiency of how you utilize calories. Exactly.

Yes. That's a great way. Or remove calories. Right. Yeah. So ATP, choline, and then you said another one. AMP. And L-carnitine those well i don't know about uh amp but those are all legal super easy to get uh oral supplements do those just not

work i mean i know injecting is a different level but i'm just saying like in general like somebody's listening and they're not trying to inject anything but can they take those orally and will they get anything out of it or does it have to travel straight into the bloodstream? So for carnitine, carnitine's been studied like crazy. You can go on to just about any PubMed, NIH, whatever. Xamarin.com. Totally, yeah. And oral carnitine has pretty much been deemed ineffective.

Useless. Right. But injectable, and so a lot of people see these studies and say L-carnitine doesn't do anything, you guys are nuts. But if you look at only studies with injectable L- a lot of people see these studies they say l-carnitine doesn't do anything you guys are nuts right but if you look at only studies with injectable l-carnitine it's crazy um very effective they they started to use it for diabetics really effective for diabetics um but but yeah to answer your question no not very effective unless injected atp especially yeah and and that's kind of the thing, again, because we're always –

at least me because I'm the – we're both the philosophical weirdo, but it's like it always comes back to like why, why? Like if you're like I want to be the best in the world, I want to be the best in the world, but I'm going to compete in this natural federation so I can't inject, but I want to take these orally. And it's like, well, what's the difference there? Like you need to really like turn around and have a conversation with yourself because like, okay, well, why is it okay for a diabetic to take insulin?

Why is that okay? Is that more natural than someone who isn't? You have to be able to like give an actual valid answer as to like, okay, I'm okay with taking this orally. And then you could branch out. give an actual valid answer as to like okay i'm okay with taking this orally and then you could branch out you could build on that because like the sarm conversation like sarms are legal or like legal ish they're like gray area whatever like austrian uh fucking all that shit and legal to legal not for human consumption or whatever nobody fucking knows it's a weird but but that's the thing like there there are kids in high school that are taking all of these over-the-counter

uh sarms or pro not pro hormones but that was like back in my day. I remember Epistane. That shit was fucking poison, but goddamn did I look good when I took it. What is Epistane? It's a pro-hormone. It's basically like a designer steroid. They figured out that if they attached a different – like an additional carbon group or something to a steroid compound, you could take it orally and because it was slightly

different, it was deemed to be legal. But it's like, okay, it's legal, so does that make it more okay? Is that more natural? Hell no. Even birth control, like hormonal birth control for women, that's hormonal. So it's like

actually turning it around and having a conversation with yourself and being like, okay, I's still, so it's like have actually like turning it around and having like a conversation with yourself and being like, okay, I'm okay with taking it if I take it in a pill, but I'm not okay with injecting it. It's like, but why really, really ask yourself why.

And if you can't give a good answer to that, then you need to reevaluate the way that you're looking at things. And in my opinion, and some people disagree with me because it's, there's some people have like weird morals or whatever, but can go even further because like what are morals like why is that more okay than this why is that worse than that you know so yeah i'm fascinated by this strategy um do you think it could help with like other types of injuries this is you know this is uh for joe specifically because he has a nerve issue but someone like andrew he's dealt with uh kind of chronic back pain most of his life is there some

sort of recipe that you kind of would conjure up for something like that as well yeah absolutely i mean that's kind of what i do is is i mean under under market or underground a little bit but uh but yeah i mean there's there's there's mean, there's always something that you can do. And again, I think to go full circle, it all kind of comes back to caring, right? Because there's always something. Like if there's pain, why is there pain? What is happening that is causing pain? Why is there a chronic pain and how do we block that off, right?

Or fix the issue in the first place instead of just, here's your pain kill, sorry you're hurting, right? There's always something, yeah, absolutely. Actually, before we even get to that, you mentioned the philosophy of training multiple times. I know you've touched on it, like why are you doing X, why are you doing this, right?

But what exactly, when did you guys start thinking of this idea and what exactly is it like for both of you what exactly is that in in terms of like the philosophy of training yeah like because is it just in general the philosophy of training because it seems like there's something else that you guys have conjured up with what you're talking about here as far as this philosophy yeah like i'll kind of kick start that at least but but basically like all all forms of training is philosophical right like there is a there is a hard line between science and philosophy so like so i always have a hard time when people are like oh my my uh my coaching or

whatever my methods are scientifically backed right and a lot of the times, that's not true because there's so much that anything that science has to be tangible and it has to be able to show this is a result. We've shown that this is a tangible thing. There are results, there are numbers, it's true. But anytime that you start training, when you say you build a protocol and you say this, it becomes philosophical because there is nothing that can back that up and say this is going to be effective, right?

And so our idea is we gather as much information as possible, as much truth. Everything we want is built off of truth, right? We know ATP. We know what ATP does in the body. We know what L-carnitine does in the body. We know what growth hormone or insulin does in the body. We know what L-carnitine does in the body. We know what growth hormone or insulin does in the body. There's plenty of science to prove that.

Those are our facts. And now what we're doing is trying to apply that. But that becomes philosophical. That becomes, this is my best bet, and we're trying to build it. Our whole idea is we're trying to turn this into a science experiment. We build this out. We say, this is our experiment. This is our hypothesis.

Just like you're in eighth grade and building out your first science experiment, this is what we think we're going to get out of it. But everything has to have a result. What can we say that will prove that this is working? And now that starts to become more scientific than philosophical, right? And so everything is why, but it has to be planned. It has to be planned that there has to be something that is a result that can go back and say we are on the right track.

We can't just say like, oh, you know, I want to get bigger. So the internet says a hypertrophy is like 8 to, or eight to 12 reps or something, right? Like that's how you get bigger. Is that the only way to get bigger? Or are you just doing that, right? And so everything just has to have a reason. And so even if you go through and do that, that sets of 12 or whatever,

maybe you do sets of 12 for, I don't know, eight weeks. Are you getting bigger? Like, and you can measure that, right? You can measure your arms and say, am I getting bigger or whatever? But everything has to have, you know know you have to be able to track it has to be a science experiment where it's worthless basically like there's always a why and and and that right there is kind of why like at least for me and i don't want to speak for jake but like i i'm not

i'm cautious in being like okay this is absolutely what we're doing and this is what's going to happen because it's all philosophy. It's all hypothetical until it actually comes to fruition. And part of that is me doing it in the application, but it's also because everything is so dose-dependent, individually based and whatnot, we don't know if we like it because it was like, okay, we're going to approach this style of training after the show and we're going to do this, and this is what we're hoping to see at the end of 8 to 12 weeks.

And it is indeed what we're seeing right now. But if that wasn't the case, then all that means is that philosophy or that hypothesis was a little off. So we take the data, we take what happened, what actually we did observe, and then we bring that in and we're like, okay, why did that happen? If that happened, then this might be a better route, or if that happened, then we shouldn't do this. All it is is data. It's looking at, like we were talking to Ryan earlier,

it's not, there's no secret method, there's no secret tactic or plan or secret compound to take, like what we're talking about that's specifically made for me. It's all about figuring out what works in that certain situation and approaching each situation that you're in, whether it's your own personal one or someone that you're coaching or consulting with or just a friend. But realizing that each situation is different, and as long as you approach it with a thoughtful and open mind, and look for the answers, look for the whys, not just what is, then by doing that, it's going to put you in a better position to actually achieve what it is that you want. Yeah, and everybody basically has their own truth,

right? Like, what is true for him is not true for me. And so basically has their own truth, right? Like what is true for him is not true for me. And so we're all kind of trying to figure out our own truths, like whatever John Hack is doing and whatever John Hack's taking, you know, it works for him, but that doesn't mean that that's going to be true for me. Right. And I don't have the same genes that John Hack does. He doesn't have the same genes that I do and whatever. Right. And so we take all this data that we can, all the science that we can and say, this is my best bet. We are hoping for this outcome. Is it true or is it not? And as we do that, we can kind of find our own truths for ourselves. And just like blood work, the longer you observe it, the more data you compile and the more time

you spend paying attention to it and understanding the whys, the better base you're going to have to make decisions to put you closer to what you want in the future. Because you're going to be like, okay, well, this happened when this happened. Now we need to do this. If I do this, I can expect this to occur because this is what happened the other two times we added this in or whatever. Right, but if it doesn't work, you have to be able to be like, hey, that didn't work.

I thought it was going to work. We put our mind together. We thought this was going to work. But if we weren't getting the result right now, we'd stop and say, okay, well, what did we miss? Why did this not give us the outcome we thought? And that, again, I know both of us were the same person. We keep going on tangents.

But it's with Hunter. Like record breakers, she had a PR performance. Hunter Henderson, PR performance, kicked ass, had a great day. She's like, oh, I had a shitty day or whatever. She still went seven for nine, won the meet, won $10,000. But it wasn't even near her top end potential. There is so much untapped room there. And all that was, we called it a warm-up meet going into it

because now we know, okay, this worked well. Okay, this didn't do exactly what we wanted. So now we can take all of that data and we can take that experience and then apply it to the next one to push her or put her in a position to end up a little bit higher next time, a little bit higher next time. Right. Like her last six weeks are not going to be like her next six weeks. It'll be very, very different. Yep. Yeah. Having your why intact is really helpful. And then plus with you guys being coaches, when you, when somebody says,

Hey, I'm not really, you know, getting the results and you know, here's what last week kind of yielded, and you start to go over stuff, and you're like, oh, yeah, well, I hate that exercise, I hate that exercise, and I hate that one too, and I haven't been doing them. And then you can say, hey, remember, we wrote down your why. It's right here. This is why you want to do these things. Remember, you are coming off a knee injury.

We need your knee to be healthier for these squats, and this is why we're approaching all this this way. Then it just falls in line, and the person can make a decision. Or if it's you that you're questioning, throwing questions at yourself, you can just kind of review in your head, how bad do you want to do this? Is it about how bad you want to do it? Do you actually want to do it? Or do you want to just say you want to do it and do half the amount of work? Because that can get you some results, but it won't get you all the results you're looking for. Absolutely.

Yep. When it comes to, when it comes to working with people and suggesting certain things that they should use, how do you guys do that? Like, what do you need to be able to help somebody do that safely? Because, I mean, you hear of like some coaches, I've heard of people saying, hey, try this you guys do that like what do you need to be able to help somebody do that safely because i mean you hear of like some coaches i've heard of people saying hey try this or do this or do this and people end up in real deep shit right um so how do you guys navigate those waters in a safe manner with every individual that comes your way i think it comes back down to that minimal effective dose

right you always start with something small and And you also have to realize there is no safe way. There's no absolute safe way to do something, right? And so you always start with the minimal that you possibly can. You're looking for those sides. If you're taking this or you're doing this kind of thing or whatever, you have to understand what are the first sides that would show up, right? And you're being very communicative with them, saying, are getting this are you feeling this way and the first thing you see it's like okay that you know we got to bring this back down or oh this is going really well we're

not you know let's bump it up a little bit or or whatever but it there is no like absolute safe way to do anything and and it but it but it really does boil down to that communication and care. And I just want to add to that. It's also collaborative effort because like there are so many coaches out there that are like, this, this is my camp. This is the way that I do things and they can do,

they can, those coaches aren't doing, I would say like they're not doing it maliciously, but they're, they're pigeonholing themselves because they're only allowing their knowledge base to be the base of knowledge that is there. Like I am super grateful to have Jake and to have David Herrera, who is the other host on our podcast, because I believe in collaboration.

I believe in working together because Jake complements my knowledge base because he has knowledge that I don't have. And like you said earlier, I compliment your own because I have knowledge that you don't have. And sometimes it's not even knowledge. Sometimes it's the way the, in the application or in the, in the way of explanation, like, but it's not being afraid to like looking at a client and being like, Hey, okay. Like this is what I thought was going to happen. This is what is happening. I'm not sure what's going on or I'm not confident in like my ability to assess this situation. Let's go talk to this person. Or maybe I can send you to this person to talk to them and then they can come to me and communicate with me.

Like I had – for an example, I had a client go to one of the train your ass off things with Dave Tate. And Dave reached out to me and he's like, hey, this is what I saw with her. This is what she needs to work on. And I'm like, sick. That's, that's in the same vein of what I was thinking, but shit, I wasn't there. So I didn't see that. Fuck yeah. That's awesome. That gives me insight into what I need to apply in the future. And because it's, it's putting yourself in a position where, uh, it's, it's the whole light. And I mean, I, again, philosophy, but like I, it's abundancy versus scarcity mindset. We can't be afraid to work with one another and bounce ideas off of one another because a rising tide raises all ships. We all end up better off.

What are some of your life philosophies nowadays? Sounds like you grew up making some decisions that led you to utilize cocaine and some other drugs that you mentioned. I don't know how addicted or how caught up you got in those. You did mention attempting suicide. How have you kind of like come out of that? And you seem like you're doing really well now and seem like you are making a great life for yourself and you seem happy.

Like just stuff that I follow on Instagram and some of the things I see from you, it looks like things are going pretty well. So what's the difference between when you were 17 and maybe hurting and wanting to maybe potentially hurt yourself or harm yourself in some way? What are some of the differences and what are some of the things that you live by now that have kind of helped you through that? Well, so it's like words are just words until they're not.

So like I got this, and speaking of Dave, I brought him up earlier. I don't know, we're recording. I'm assuming we're recording. But it's live, learn, pass on is on my forearm. That's the motto of Elite FTS. I used to work for Elite FTS. I was with them for a long time. I'm not affiliated with them anymore, but I have an extreme respect for everything Dave has built.

And I live by those words. I got that tattoo in 2016, I think. And I was trending upwards because like when I was a kid, I just didn't know how to manage myself. I didn't know how to manage all the pain I felt. I had like poverty coming up. Like my mom was super sick.

My dad was never there. My dad's an amazing support system. Like, but he had to work like three or four jobs continuously to make sure that I had food on the table. It was just one of those situations. I looked at it like I was a burden. I didn't want to be there and then paired with teenage angst and just being a little psychopath wrestler kid, it let me fall down into a really really bad place um and i like i i'm a big proponent of therapy i've been i've been in therapy consistently for like the past four years um and it's it's that like that in addition to a lot of other stuff has saved my life or whatever but it's it just all it comes down to is managing the shit that you have like we're all i hate the whole like mindset of like we're all, it's the island of misfit toys or whatever. We're all fucked up because

we power lift and we do... It takes a fucked up individual. No. Everybody has trauma. Everybody has issues that they deal with. And that's not... It's not good, but it's not bad either. It's that blah. It's that space that we have to be okay with.

And it's... As soon's that it's that space that we have to be okay with and it's as soon as you start working with it and not against it you're going to be in a much better spot because it's like i know that i have depressive episodes i know that i struggle with anxiety and i don't like i don't i'm not caught off guard by it anymore i'm not like fuck god damn it it's happening again like and then i break downdammit, it's happening again. And then I break down. It's just about finding strategies to basically look at my partner who, again, I'm incredibly grateful for her because she's a big factor here. But I'll look at her and be like, hey, I'm off today.

I'm not having a great day. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I don't know what I need. I might get pissed at you. Like, I literally can't tell you why I'm feeling the way that I am, but I'm letting you know that, like, I feel this way today. And I would appreciate it if we work together to get past this rather than me trying to shut it down and work against it and shut it up. Let's approach it as a unit and do this together. And sometimes it's as simple as me saying like, God damn it, it's a fucking bad day. Like, why the fuck am I pissed off? Why am I so

irritable? You know, why am I so fucking sad today? You know, and then just talking about it and I'm like, oh, I just need to get that out. You know, sometimes it's as simple as that. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it sticks around for a long time, but it's working with it, not against it and understanding that none of us are broken, but we're all individual. We're all different. We all have different brains. We all have different experiences and we all like all of every one of our truths are different. Your reality is different than my reality. Yours is different. Mine is different, whatever, but it's all about our perception and how we feel and working with it, not against it. What's like a real life coping mechanism that you might use? Like, is it helpful to

watch a certain TV program or listen to certain type of music or like go on a walk? Like, I don't know what's reasonable because I think a lot of times people are really crippled by their depression and they don't have the, or at least they don't feel like they have the energy to even like leave the house, get up off the couch type of thing. So two things that I use, and it was right at the beginning, is I love cooking shows. If you have Netflix, watch somebody feed Phil. Because it's like this happy, it's Phil Rosenthal, I think his name. But he's just like this happy old Jewish dude that it's like a travel show.

And he just eats food and he's like so pleasant. And that's like my decompressed show. Like I'll just rewatch it and it makes me so happy because he's just, it's like, I'm just hanging out with this dude and I'm like, yeah, like that food looks good. That's cool.

It just makes me, it's stupid and happy, but like dealing with anxiety and whatnot, it's music. Like I never thought that because I think so fast, I think too much. And like when, like that's where the anxiety comes from.

I like think I like we're driving over here and I'm thinking of worst case scenario. It's immediately like, man, you know, we could get in a car crash on the way over here. We could all die. You know, like I can do everything right with this. And then like I could have a brain aneurysm, you know, you know, and it's like that, that crazy level of shit. But I need, I need like to occupy my time. So I found a really, really effective way to do that is I'll put one AirPod in, and I'll literally just listen to music all day. Even when I'm having conversations. I've recorded our podcast listening to music. Instrumentals? No, lyrics. I don't understand how... It honestly might be, but I'll be singing along to a song in my head while I'll be singing along to a song in my head while I'll be speaking a different sentence. It's very odd.

Apparently that's really abnormal, and people can't do that, but I do that. Because I'll be making food in the kitchen, and I'm talking to Bree, and I'm like, yeah, okay, so we've got to walk the dog today. And I'm like, oh, I fucking love this song. And she's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And I'm like, oh, we got to walk the dog today and I'm like oh I fucking love this song and she's like what the fuck is wrong with you and I'm like oh sorry it's the new album and it's just like I think so fast that

occupying a part of my focus helps me focus elsewhere because it basically like it pulls the gas tank is too big so it like gets rid of some of it Joe you're not crazy, by the way. Yeah, no.

I'm just different. Just a little. Well, if you think about it, people go to coffee shops and stuff, and they go there to work. And you would think, well, working at a coffee shop, that sounds distracting. Why wouldn't you just work at home? There's no one there. There's no noise. But people need that ambient.

A lot of people do. Not everybody, but a lot of people need that ambient noise. They need a little bit of foot traffic. They need to like, I don't know, just have some energy around, have some other people around. It kind of reminds me of training as well. I mean, training with no music

kind of feels like torture sometimes. And for myself personally, it's been really helpful to put on some sort of nostalgic type music, put on something old that you know that you like, especially if you're in a frustrated state because if you're trying to catch the beats of something new, trying to get into the rhythm of it or trying to enjoy it can be annoying

because you're not used to that particular song. So maybe pull out something that you know that's going to work well for you, like you said with that type of show that you were watching, the cooking show. Yeah, for sure. You recently got oniktok and an interesting thing about that platform is that honestly i've noticed that a lot of people believe they have adhd and a lot of people truly do um but i would assume like we had andrew hooperman on and anna lemke on and both of them kind of were also mentioning there's a lot of like misdiagnosed adhd going on like self-diagnosed that's misdiagnosed right you definitely do and definitely like has so like for i guess i'm

wondering what would you like what would your advice to be to individuals that are like i definitely have adhd i can't pay attention to shit like how where should what should they figure out how do they deal with that dopamine because it's all dopamine hits. Like TikTok is like the fastest moving fucking social media platform. I don't look at it. I can't look at it because like it eats your fucking existence. Like I bitch at Brianna. This is one of the things that I bitch at her for because she'll like fall into her phone.

And then like two hours later, she's like, oh my god, I watch like a billion tiktoks and i'm like you have been sitting there and like haven't spoken for an hour and a half but like it's it every time you like see a little funny thing it's a little dopamine hit it's a little dopamine hit it's a little dopamine hit and then what happens when you keep hitting those highs the highs become the normal so then when you remove it you're you're not you're not back to're not back to normal. You're in low now you're like in a deficient state. So then you're like, fuck, I don't know what to do with myself. And then it's like, I need to, I can't focus on anything because you're literally training your brain every day to not focus on anything. And that's why there's value to limiting screen time.

Like, uh, one of the things, cause I know she's going to listen to this, but like Hunter's on her phone way too much, like literally in between Literally, in between squat attempts, she's scrolling Instagram. And I was like, I'm going to punch you in the fucking back of the head. What the fuck are you doing? Because it's like, focus, god damn it. But that's the thing. Some people think that that's them focusing. Or they're like, well, I need to wind down.

I don't want to think about the meat all the time. But it's that wired tired zone you're not actually resting and like bringing yourself back down because you're still getting the little dopamine hit the little dopamine hit the little dopamine hit so it's not really I I don't it's like the self-diagnosed ADHD but it's it's it's dopamine reliance it's it's like's like you need to get these little, oh, yeah, cool, ha-ha, ha-ha, ha-ha, every fucking moment of every day and you're not appreciating the space,

that just empty time, the blah time. People don't like that. People don't have that these days. People freak out. I mean, one of the things that can make people freak out the most is just to put them in a dark room. Yeah. You put someone in a pitch black room for like two hours or something and you'll feel like you're losing your mind.

I know that Aubrey Marcus and other people have talked about doing these practices where they're in a room like that for like 16 hours. Yeah, and they have like the most crazy like psychedelic experience of their life just from being in a dark room. It's pretty wild. You messed around with some psychedelics and stuff as well. Have any of those things been helpful to helping you kind of like live a better life nowadays than what you grew up with? Absolutely. And that's like I am a big believer in psilocybin, which is magic mushrooms.

And both in like larger doses and smaller doses I micro dose every day and and the best way that I can describe that and like so a normal like a normal dose is like one gram I take like normal I take 100 milligrams which is it's basically the equivalent of like it's like a cup of coffee like it's not psycho it's not psychoactive I'm not like oh I'm tripping every day but it just it's like a little a little something Like it's not psycho. It's not psychoactive. I'm not like, Oh, I'm tripping every day, but it just, it's like a little, a little something there's, there's just something there, but the, it's such a low dose that it doesn't like, it doesn't alter my experience or my reality, but the way that I describe it for me, and it's all based on the individual, again, like have a why for what you're doing. Don't just go fucking, okay, Joe said to do fucking magic,

magic mushrooms, go do magic mushrooms. But it helps me compartmentalize. Whereas like when I said earlier, like I'll wake up and I'll have like, I'll have a shit, I'll just wake up and be pissed off. I'll wake up and be like depressed. And I'm like, I don't know why this is the way that it is right now. But in the past, when I wasn't implementing these strategies, I would be, I'd let that bleed into other aspects of my life. I couldn't, like, separate it from myself. I couldn't just be like, okay, this is the state of things right now. This isn't, like, what I am. It would, I'd be like, okay, I'm pissed off today, so fuck you, fuck you. Like, I'm going to do this. I don't give a fuck about myself.

I'm going to go to the gym and fucking drive myself into the ground. Fuck it. You know, like I literally for in like for a year I had I kept putting a hashtag that was like team fuck it because like I was just like fuck it. If I'm if I'm I'm going to squat this weight if I live or die. Fuck it. Like we're just going to find out, you know, that was my whole approach because I couldn't compartmentalize. I couldn't separate myself from my emotions or my reactionary type shit. Microdosing psilocybin, for me, helps me do that. It helps me be like, okay, when I'm up, I need to be up, but that's not me.

When I'm down, I need to be down, but that's not me. That's not me as an individual. That's not me as a psyche. That's just a part of me. It helped me identify that I am not my feelings. I am not my reactions to situations. I'm just me and all of these things are separate. It helped me deal with them, compartmentalize them, identify them, and just work with them rather than against them, like we were talking about earlier. Was this with your first experience of psilocybin or did you

slow, like, was this through microdosing that that helped? I mean, it must be a culmination of therapy, psilocybin, et cetera. But like, when did you, like, when was the last time, I wouldn't say when was the last time, but when was like the last period where you were super reactionary, where you were in that and aware that you were in that? I mean, I still struggle with it. Yeah. Like, I mean, I mean, shit, dude. Like we, we're all on Instagram. We all with it. I mean, shit, dude. We're all on Instagram.

And you guys are like, you've built a brand and whatnot, but people still... I mean, people look at you, and you used to be the big powerlifter guy, and now you're more like the way everything trends. We're talking about lifestyles and building brands, and okay, it's like we've built a business off social media, and people are like, oh, Mark Bell sold

out, blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, he he's he's he's done what he's supposed to do he's he's winning at this shit uh but the thing about it is like i i'd lie to you if i said like some people that like look at me and they're like joe joe's never gonna bench again he's never gonna deadlift again he's he's fucking washed up he's done i'd lie to you if i said that didn't bother me because i'd said earlier i'm powered by spite half the time because fuck those guys. But I say that jokingly halfway. There is truth to it, but that's just part of how I feel. It's part of my feeling.

It's part of my reaction to it, and I identify it, and I'm there because people talk shit. The internet gives everyone a voice. Sometimes people are more willing to use that voice when they probably shouldn't be. But it bothers everybody. Even if you can detach yourself from it entirely, it's always going to be a little blip of negative. And that's another thing that this has really helped me with. Because the bigger you get, the more people are going to talk about you. And you have to be able to compartmentalize and be like well that's fine if that makes them happy

that's cool you know i'm still doing my thing it's fine so yeah that free and i'm curious about this with both of you guys um because the other the other day we were all talking about like sharing your emotions with you know your significant other and how sometimes men have an issue with that. You mentioned that you're able to share certain things with Brianna. And I'm wondering, were you – like I don't know how long you guys have been together, but is that something that you were comfortable doing? And was it easy for you to share the way you were feeling about certain things with your partner or did you have to learn how to do that as a man? And this goes to you too if like you have any insight on this with you and your wife, Kiara or wife.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm with, with Kiara and I was actually like our, our first date that I was like, so I had just come from a previous relationship where I was about to be married.

And we, we cut off our marriage like five days before because of some, you know, things that happened. And so I was in a very non-trusting, like, you know, don't, I just don't care. I don't care a day. I don't care whatever. And then so Kiarna and our first, first date, I'm like, this is how I am. This is all the things that, you know, have happened to me. This is, and she was like, cool. And then, you know, then she talked about

all her stuff and then we got it out on our first day. And so now I guess it wasn't very hard. I'm pretty good at just like this is how I am. If it's a big deal, then that's cool. If it's not, then cool. So I guess not. Yeah. And I'm kind of the similar way. And I think, like, Jake, with the whole cutting off the thing,

it's like you went through trauma. And I think I'm the same way because like i i was married previously uh and like i'd like people the attention span of the internet is like a half a second so a lot of people don't remember or like don't remember it but it's like i that was a thing that happened i was very happy in that moment but that like things happened and i was put in a position where like I was very untrusting to open myself up to another individual. So when – it's a funny story but when I – like Bree and I were friends first, which was really, really cool because there was a level of comfort first. And when we started becoming like romantically involved, I was just like this is all the shit that happened to me.

I have issues. Like I have some trust issue trust issues i have some like difficulty not difficulty expressing my emotions i'm very good at expressing my emotions i have some difficulty controlling the expressions of my emotions and i just i led with it because i was like i'm not i'm not interested like everybody has like they're like they're they're fun phase where they go out and like just go to part they're single it's their single phase whatever everybody has that or a blip of that or whatever but like i was like i don't i'm i'm tired i don't want to fucking do that i'm like this is all my shit take it or leave it and brie was like okay this is all my shit and i'm like okay can this

work together and she's like yeah and it's like, yeah. And it's like, okay, sweet. Let's do something here. And the funny story is, we had never hung out as boyfriend and girlfriend. We were just friends remotely. And the first time we ever hung out as boyfriend and girlfriend, I actually took her home to Thanksgiving dinner. Whoa!

That was the first. Holy shit. And I have one speed. I'm on or off. And I was like, because she's like, well, where are you going for Thanksgiving? We're just fucking shit talking. And you can talk to her about it.

And I'm like, I'm going home. And I'm like, I don't know. It'd be cool to bring a pretty girl over there. And she's like, I'm not doing anything. And I'm like, fuck this bitch. Because it's just continual. It's like continual shit talk. So I'm like,

you want to come? And she's like continual shit talk so i'm like i'm like i'm like you want to come and she's like are you serious and i'm like i don't know am i fucking serious are you gonna say yes and she's like fuck it yeah and i'm like all right i'll buy your fucking ticket see you there and i took her and i was just like this is brianni i wasn't like this is my girlfriend or whatever but i was just like this is brianni and then it was like okay cool and then we hit her hit it off and then it's just kind of like, well, shit. All right, this is what we're doing. And it's been like that ever since. So one speed, I don't know, on or off, dude.

So, yeah. That's amazing. So I don't know if it was easy. I don't think, I wouldn't, because going back to the original question, I don't think it's like, I don't think it's going to be easy initially, but if you go through the shit where it's like sticky and hard and that's jokes, jokes,

God damn it. Where it's like, where it's, you go through the trauma, you go through the bullshit where it's like, you don't give like, it doesn't matter if it's fucking hard. It's like,

this is just the way that it is like this. This is the stuff. This is the stuff that we're going to have to address now or later. Let's just fucking do it now. And you get to a point where like you, it's more easy to do that because you've gone through the bullshit before. So, yeah.

No, that's pretty amazing. Like, you know, one thing that seems to be just a theme with you guys, actually a theme with, because when we had this conversation too, is that you guys are with people that are able to like, number one, like you can communicate that and they're able to be receptive about it.

Because I think one thing I hear from a lot of guys is that women cannot handle the men actually talking about those emotions because it makes them seem weaker. That's a theme that I'm getting back from a lot of people. Like, ooh, if you do that, they're going to run for the hills because they're going to think you're a little bit weak and you can't handle your emotions and your shit. You know what I mean? If you do that, they're going to run for the hills because they're going to think you're a little bit weak and you can't handle your emotions and your shit. You know what I mean? But you guys have found people that they're like, okay, let's be adults and let's see if we can work through this together because you're a man, but you can also have these feelings about shit. So that's amazing. I hear people say, they'll say, oh, my wife would never go for that.

And I'm always like, man, that's not good. You should be able to at least have a conversation about it, at least be able to talk about it, even if it's something that they're not into or something that they disagree with. You should still be able to have some sort of dialogue about it, right? Yeah, because it's like how fun, how exciting is life if you just have someone that is like, yes, dear, yes, dear.

Okay, let's do that. It's like, no, I would just clone myself at that point. I fucking hate myself. I don't love myself enough for that. It's about having someone who compliments you and is different enough. God damn it, this is the very beginning. It challenges you. Yeah, it challenges you, but it's the light shining through the prism.

It's like the same light because at the beginning, it's like Jake and I, it's like at a different angle, so we're different colors. But it's the same thing. It's like light through the prism, different colors. So it's like the same fucking base thing, but it's slightly different enough, but it's still just as beautiful as whatever the fuck you are too. It's just a different thing. It's just different. It's amazing. Philosophy.

Taking too many mushrooms. i don't know uh let me ask you this man um for i guess some of the outside of fitness books you've read because i'm curious what kind of stuff that you guys read as far as fitness is concerned but what type of stuff do you pay attention to as far as philosophy like what kind of stuff have you read that has given you some base knowledge on some of this and has allowed you to do some of your own free thinking i've been talking you're talking i want to think more as far as like books or like our podcast or like what like anything yeah yeah like what are the stuff that you pay attention to for some of the things that you guys are talking about currently um so there's a couple people that i follow that uh i really like to

listen to that have like similar brains to us like alexegel is a big one. Broderick Chavez is a big one. Andrew Triana. Andrew Triana might be one of the freaking smartest people on the planet. There's kind of a reason probably that you don't know them. They are a little bit like not trying to be social media

influencers or whatever, but Andrew Triana actually has a website called Go Superbrain. It's really freaking sweet. Go Superbrain? Yeah. Go check it out. Literally sign up for it. I'm telling both of you to sign up for it.

It's amazing. If you want to be a better performer in any aspect, business, life, freaking relationships, powerlifting, I don't know, whatever, you got to go check that out. It retrains the way that you think, which is incredible. But there are a couple of minds like that that I really like to follow. They have podcasts. They have subscription websites and stuff that I really like to follow

that are putting out content fairly similar to us, different avenues, different philosophies, but kind of the same thing. Yeah, and that's pretty much the same exact answer i was going to give in terms of like like modern folks but like i it like jake and i both have a religious background i'm not i wouldn't call myself religious at this point i'm like i think there's something but i don't fucking know like it like it's it's what it's just how it is but the point point of it is like I went to a Jesuit college. Their whole motto is go forth and set the world on fire. There's a reason I have live, learn, and pass on tattooed on my arm.

It's more about action and it's more about going to do good and like leave shit better than you found it and like not just accept things for the way that they are because like ah shitty people are shitty it's like yeah okay that that's true but if shitty people are shitty not everybody wants to be shitty not everybody wants to like and shitty people are literally nobody nobody's bad right everybody just doesn't know how to deal with yeah nobody knows how to deal with their trauma people like literally don't know that they're fucked up until they do this self-introspection, and some people don't have the tools to do it. So you always have to understand that everyone's experience is different. And if you can go out and do a little bit of good, record a little podcast, put your own irresponsible drug use on blast to maybe help somebody else think a little bit more in the future,

to maybe not, or to maybe at least ask a question and inspire more in the future to maybe not or to maybe at least ask a question and inspire them to like not just accept things for the way that they are then that's that that's that that's god that's that's spirit that's truth that's the good shit that we're here to do because like and that's my biggest thing like i'm i'm not i'm like it's like optimistic nihilism it's like we're all gonna fucking die but that's the beauty of it it's like we can we we this is so fucking special that we have this life that we're here right here right now because every every fucking piece of trauma every the suicide attempt my fucking like all the shit that I've been through like it put me in this position to

be here right now and whoever the fuck is listening to, you're in a position to listen to this. And maybe you can take one piece of information and pass it on to somebody else. You might not like it. The whole thing is one person can't change the world. I really don't think they can, or it doesn't matter if they can, but one person or one thing that you do can change someone else's entire world.

And that's the biggest takeaway of like anything you can fucking hear. Yeah. I think the, the, the way that the way the world is right now, it's, we like to think about ourselves or social media, how many likes we have,

any followers, everything's about ourselves, ourselves, ourselves. We're always looking inward, but I think, and it's really easy to get caught up on that. People like,

Oh, how could they do that? I can't believe they posted that. I can't believe they said that. Oh, that guy, he's such a dick or whatever. But I really think that to know somebody is to love them, right? If you were to sit down with anybody and to really have

a conversation and like the biggest asshole in the world, right? Sit down, have a conversation with them, went through their life, their trauma, you'd probably understand them. You'd be like, this guy, he's not a bad dude, right? Like he's just, it's just trauma that's creating more trauma. But if you can control your own trauma and stop creating other trauma for the future generations, you know, we're in a pretty good place. I think that's really what life's about. Fucking dope.

That's a great place to end it, I believe. Andrew, want to take us on out of here? Yeah, sure. Before we even do that, though, I did want to ask Joe, and this is like is like a i don't know it's hard for me to even formulate it into a question but um those are the best yeah well it's just like when you start to recognize that things are like that dark clouds coming your way how do you not let things like snowball or like spiral out of control uh and and if somebody's not like sure what i'm even getting at it's like if you have like a PR set in your program for like Friday and Monday morning you wake up with a tight back and it's like oh I

should be okay and then Tuesday it's like I think it's hurting a little bit more and then in actuality like that back is not even a problem but that's all you think about all week so come PR day fuck I'm not gonna hit this PR because my back's messed up. So when you do see like, fuck dude, I'm having a bad day. How do you stop that in its tracks? So I don't really think you stop it in its tracks. You accept it. You, you, you have to be okay with it. It's like, like I love, I, I really enjoy like, uh, uh, Buddhism and like reading about

like detachment and whatnot because because you have to be okay. All of it is fucking juxtaposition. It all contradicts itself, but that's the fun part of all these stupid fucking conversations and why we talk too much. Because it's like you have to not care a little bit. Not care, but you have to be

okay with being detached from the outcome. It's like training for this past showdown me, I wanted to rebreak my all time world record. There were certain like indicator lifts, indicator numbers that I wanted to hit that were going to tell me, they basically tell me like, okay, I'm on the right path. I'm going to, I hit 777 for a double last year. So I want to hit 789 for a double. But I went and did a seminar at Jake's gym in Salt Lake City. And that day I hit 789 for a single and it was shitty. It was really, really slow. It felt like dick, just fucking horrible. could panic right now i'm like freaking out because i'm not i don't have as much momentum as i did last year but i also have to understand this was after a flight it was after uh like your

fucking uh ac was broken so it was like 78 degrees in the guest bedroom so we were fucking dying but like it's like all these external factors and it's it's about not like like the same thing that i was talking about not letting you become your emotions or you become your feelings. They're just aspects of you. So these are just aspects of your experience. And you have to identify as you lead up to that, okay, my back is tight. Okay, my back is tighter. Okay, fuck, man, I'm not even going to be able to train today, really.

Be okay with that. What can you do? What's within your power? What's within your control that day to make the back a little bit better to put yourself in a position where you can train because i and i would tell this to a client i would tell it to a friend i would apply it to myself i would rather i would rather have a good day where i don't make any i would rather have a day where i stay the same then go for something and make myself worse.

I would rather – this is like basically plateau – not plateauing, but staying at the same level is better than going for something that's unreasonable because you're too frustrated or too prideful to accept the fact that this is the way things are and detach yourself from that outcome and go for it and then tank yourself. Because how often – like I was talking about it with you going into the showdown. There were days where like, I always squat on Sundays. It's traditional squat on Sundays. It's how I do it. It's like, it's literally always how it is. But sometimes like I would go in, I'd wake up on a Sunday and I just felt off. Just kind of like, what the fuck's going on? Like, I'm not, I'm just not as awake. I was like wired tired. I just took a little bit too much caffeine the day before. And I'm like, well, you know, fuck my schedule. I have to do this. I have to do it today.

But if you pull yourself back and slow yourself down a little bit and be like, I don't have to do anything. I really don't have to do anything. I could quit right now if I wanted to. It's not that far. But like I don't have to do this today. So what is it if I just fucking sit on my ass and watch somebody feed Phil today? You know,et myself. Have a good day with the things that I can control, and then I wake up the next day, and I feel way better.

And I'm like, now I'm going to strike while the iron's hot. I'm going to go get after it when I feel good, when I know I'm in a position where I'm better oriented for success, and there's less risk. There's less pride. There's less like, it has to be this way. So it's not a good answer because it's different every time. But you have to be okay with just accepting things as how they are and working with them, not against them. I think that was really well said. It just sounds to me like you introduce facts.

about trying to introduce facts if you're anxious or depressed would be to introduce real facts and not have them blown out of proportion to where they're making you more anxious or more depressed. And so the only other answer for that is to just really try to take your time. And like you're talking about, like, hey, maybe I'll just chill and watch some TV. And you're going to be able to think through the reasons why you're so bothered for that particular day. Probably more accurately, especially when you take your time with it. I think with a lot of people right now, we always want to do something right now. We've got to be successful right now. But then we step back and you're like, man, we're still in our 20s.

Do I really have to do this right now? Do I really want to push myself back or risk pushing myself back? You still have 10 years left of potential powerlifting? Does it have to be now? And I think just putting that in perspective, it's the long haul. It's always about the long haul. What can you do consistently day in and day out? That's where you want to be.

What's your In-N-Out Burger Monster Mash thing? Oh, here we go. It's like top secret shit, but we got to get excited. I'm sorry. No, dude, I'm excited. I might have to do this later because it's – so I love In-N-Out. In-N-Out is great. In-N-Out is awesome.

But I figured out a really, really, really, really nice thing to do with it. So you get In-N-Out Double-Double animal style because you obviously always get it animal style. But you get it protein style, which is that lettuce wrap. And it's like, okay, yeah, I'm not – like why are we –, like, dieting or doing keto or the fucking carnivore or whatever the fuck? I don't know. No. What we're doing here is you take it, you get the protein style, and then you go back to your house and you put it in a bowl of rice. I'm going to do this today.

And, like, that dude, that Stan Efferding, like, vertical diet shit, you fucking mash that motherfucker. And it's, like, it's monster mash on steroids. What I'm upset about is I didn't know about this till today too oh he's been keeping this from me the whole time i don't know man i didn't think we were best friends stan efferding is rolling over in his grave but yeah no no try that try that and tag me stan's gonna be like no it's got weird oils in it and stuff it's gonna like, that's the fun part. That's why it tastes so good. God, it is really good. Dude, yeah.

But yeah, it's like it's Monster Mash on steroids. It's Monster Mash on ATP. I think we should try that today. You know about the Flying Dutchman? I was going to say. That's my shit. What is a Flying Dutchman? A Flying Dutchman, it just comes with just meat and cheese.

It's a Dutchman. Oh, God, yeah, I've heard of that. That's insane. Just do an animal style Flying Dutchman. So fuck the lettuce. I would. Oh, God, yeah, I've heard of that. That's insane. Just do an animal-style Flying Dutchman. So fuck the lettuce. Yeah, why is lettuce in there? I would really... Oh, man.

Yeah. So is it just a double-double? Yeah. Without anything. Oh, yeah. Just the good parts. Yeah, that's fine. I don't know.

Well, I feel like I should eat something green. That's not necessary. But you can get the Flying Dutchman extra mustard fried, and they fry it in the mustard, so it's phenomenal. Wow. I also personally like whole grill, because you can get a whole Dutchman extra mustard fried, and they fry it in the mustard, so it's phenomenal. I also personally like whole grilled, because you can get a whole grilled onion on it. That's a lot. I'm an onion guy, but whatever. What the fuck?

Oh, the onions are good. The whole thing. Pause the goddamn fucking show. I love fucking vinegary shit. What do you mean fry it in the mustard? Mustard fried, yeah. So it's similar to what they would do in an animal style, but you can get it without all the extra stuff if you don't want like the uh the thousand island dressing and all that shit

you just tell them either mustard fried or what i do is i say extra mustard fried so they like coat it in mustard and then fry it oh my gosh i didn't know that was that fucking movable i'm doing i'm doing that yeah it's amazing it's so good because we're all staying together you see i've i've dude yellow mustard yeah i fuck with Is that fucking movable? I'm doing that shit today. It's amazing. It's so good. Because we're all staying together. Dude, yellow mustard. I fuck with that all day. It's incredible.

That will happen today. No, I'm super down for that. I'm super stoked about that. Fuck that sword, dude. I know why that's there. No worries. I can't wait to go eat now. All right.

Want to take us on a rant? Sure thing. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Please drop us a like and a comment and subscribe if you are not subscribed to uh the podcast right now uh please follow the podcast at mark bells power project on instagram at mb power project on tiktok and twitter my instagram and twitter's at i am andrew z at the andrew z on tiktok and sima where you at i don't see me ending on instagram to youtube i don't see me union on tiktok and twitter jake and joe where can we find you guys on your podcast? It is the PED podcast. It's on Spotify. I have not gotten it on iTunes

yet just because I haven't fucking put the effort to do it. But the PED podcast on Spotify. My website is theaodcollective.com stands for Adapt or Die, which is the whole fucking MO of every goddamn thing we've talked about today. And it's joesullivan__aod on Instagram. And TikTok. And it's Joe Sullivan underscore AOD on Instagram.

And TikTok. And TikTok. I forget that I have fucking TikTok, dude. I don't know. Yeah, I have not gone into that yet. But Instagram, jkb underscore 43, Jake Benton. Awesome. Thank you guys so much for being on the show today.

Really appreciate it. Thank you for having us. It was awesome. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength. Catch you all later.