Mark Bell's Power Project - MBPP EP. 700 - Transwoman Lia Thomas Is Breaking Records, Is This Fair For Sport?

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

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Yeah, I think these topics get to be really interesting because it's not just about testosterone levels because a female could use performance-enhancing drugs and assist in getting better times and doing better in all sports, including something like swimming. But having previously been a man, I mean, there are things that are pretty obvious. There's obvious differences between men and women. And one of the big ones is a lot of times a male, a lot of times, not all the time, but a lot of times men will be taller. A lot of times they have a taller frame. And a lot of times they're heavier. And they have a larger frame too, bone structure, everything. Right. And along with that,

yeah, larger frame, usually you have larger muscle. And so that's what makes men, you know, in something like the 100 meter, that's what allows men to have a capacity to be faster. There hasn't been a time in history where that has changed.

Men have been faster. Men have been more explosive. Men have been faster. Men have been more explosive. Men have been stronger. Now, there are females that are fast as fuck. There are females that are explosive like crazy. There's females that could come into this gym right now and front squat 200 more pounds than I can front squat. Because I don't ever front squat, first of all, but I've never been very good at it.

I think like the most amount of weight I ever tried was like 225 and it sucked. But there's chicks that will utilize, you know, three plates and shit like that on exercise like that. It's phenomenal how strong women are. But there's a reason why there's a women's division in stuff and there's a reason why there's a women's division in stuff, and there's a reason why there's a men's division in stuff. And I'm not trying to make anything out to be sexist or be harmful or hurtful to anybody in any way.

But there are differences. And I think that with what we're seeing, and forgive me if I say shit that's wrong. I'm old, and I don't always know exactly what to say but i think what we're seeing with some of the um transgender people uh going into some of these sports um like we saw was it the ncaa was that the ncaa finals or something like that is that what it was yeah she she won the title right she won the ncaa title and uh you know like people are you know starting to break records and things like that, I think, and this is just my opinion, I think it just hurts the women.

I don't really, first of all, I think that we do place a crazy high demand on sports and that that whole thing is a little bit nutty. But at the same time, I think one of the things that you're trying to do in sports, you're trying to create a somewhat even playing field or an even set of rules. And if somebody was previously a man, I think that they're probably holding on to more muscle mass. And someone would say, okay, well, they're on estrogen now or they had surgery or you can get as deep into a lot of these things as you want. or you can get as deep into a lot of these things as you want. But as you start to go deeper and deeper into these things,

you start to recognize that you still end up with somebody that had a larger frame, that had more muscle mass, that perhaps has an advantage that is too unfair to overcome. And I think that in swimming, it's like not that huge of a deal maybe. I mean, it's still a big deal, but's like not that huge of a deal maybe i mean it's still a big deal but it's not that huge of a deal because uh we're not like physical against each other but like what happens when this is like basketball or what happens when this is mma and somebody gets seriously injured or worse like what you know what are some of the repercussions what are the things that can happen i believe in this case i believe this woman was 430 something or 470th in the world yes she was like as a man yeah four fuck yeah four something right as a man and then what first yeah yeah she she's a champion

now as a woman you know i i don't i don, I personally don't rate this up to be like super high in the, in the grand scheme of problems in the world. But it's like, it is an area of concern for people that are trying to be competitive.

What if this starts to take away scholarship opportunities for certain people? You know, I don't know. Like what are, what are some of the things

that can happen based off of this? And I don't know whether it's wrong or of the things that can happen based off of this? And I don't know whether it's wrong or right, but it just seems fucking different. It's hard to wrap your brain around. Yeah, there's scholarships. And then there's like also sponsor money.

And I would imagine that these women that are swimming, they don't have any time to do anything else. So whatever money or whatever that they were getting from swimming, again, I don't know anything about college sports and swimming, what you actually money's being transferred or whatever. Absolutely. Scholarships. It's, it's a big deal.

Right. So that's what I mean. And now, so, and Leah just finished right there. And now they can get like a money via like social media. So it is. So Leah finished right there and everyone still has to keep going.

Yeah. Cause they haven't been like, they still have about a lap left. Like she lapped second place winner got it i mean the only way yeah the only way for this to the only thing to compare it to would be like um if uh you know if somebody was a swim against you know you have an adult swimming who's 25 versus someone that's 11 i mean like i'm not trying to you know i'm not trying to be like mean but i just think versus someone that's 11. I mean, like, I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not trying to be like mean, but I just think that someone that's 11, not developed enough. They're not, they don't have the capacity to have that strength. And I think women

do not have the same capacity that men have for, uh, jumping as high as possible, running as fast as possible. Uh, all these various things that we're starting to see. And, you know, I mean, you guys saw it right there in that race. It is kind of tough because, again, it's not men's sports that are being hurt. If a, give me a second, if a transgender man, so some person who is formerly a woman decides to become a man, no high end or college level men's sports teams are going to feel threatened by any means because there is an absolute, as far as like the high level elite level male athletes, they have nothing to worry about. high level, elite level male athletes, they have nothing to worry about. It's only women's sports, elite level women. Because this Leah Thomas, when she was competing as a man, wasn't in the top 10, wasn't in the top 100. Compets as a woman, transitions, competes as a woman, breaks records. So it's like, this isn't even our problem like being

real this isn't our problem it's it's it's it's gonna end up being that women if they do have an issue with this are gonna have to be the ones to champion this because it's like it's only damaging that aspect of sports it really is you know what i mean um and i think andrew you're mentioning mark lobe liner said something that was pretty interesting yeah um well before that but like yeah it is women that are unfortunately like we're again men kind of fucking things up but the uh the the swimmer that got knocked out because leah got in she spoke out and what i do like you know i don't know exactly what she said but i just know that like she got a ton of support on social media she has like from from men and women you know being like thank you for saying something but what mark was saying mark lobeliner i don't

know if he said it or if he was like retweeting somebody but he's kind of been he's good he goes he goes on the same like pattern of like our thought process of saying things but he's kind of been he's good he goes he goes on the same like pattern of like our thought process of saying things but he's like you know we women spent so much time fighting for their rights fighting for to for equality and all you know everything to now just be like oh yeah she's she's a woman she identifies as a woman well that's fine we're letting her yeah that's okay so she's so competing can now compete with something that we fought so hard to you know have the um you know to be able to do and it's like and so he's saying like how come you guys aren't speaking up now or you ladies aren't speaking up now and so but it's

tough right because you're kind of damned if you do damned if you don't because you're gonna piss somebody off yeah and and with the situation you're absolutely gonna piss people off and okay so because i've been seeing comments from some some people on our audience like some of y'all okay do not if somebody identifies as a woman she just she it's not that fucking difficult okay so you don't need to be like no you you guys are uh bending over and calling calling that no fuck you she now with that being said there's there's different aspects to this if somebody identifies as a woman and they were formerly a man that's fine that's what they identify as they're they're a woman that doesn't mean though that like you can now compete against biological women because that's a totally different playing field and this is where

it is going a bit too far because again you know at elite level athletics if this goes to the place that it could well we're going to start having top threes being all trans athletes for women's sports for women's track for women's wrestling for women's swimming for women's track, for women's wrestling, for women's swimming, for women's anything where there are podium places, if this goes to the level that it could, we're going to have top threes always or a high amount of them being trans athletes. You just don't get an opportunity to win a gold medal in that thing for those four or eight years that somebody tries to transition into your sport. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you have a ban on the amount of testosterone that they can produce, et cetera. That doesn't make a difference.

When you were born with a certain difference in your bone density, the amount of muscle you gained when you were not on hormone replacement therapy, all these things, you cannot just discount it by lowering your testosterone for a year. It doesn't disappear. It's not gone. You will have those advantages of formerly being a man and that you cannot erase it no matter how hard you try. Power Project family, how's it going? I want to talk to you guys about Within

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Yeah, I think, I mean, I don't know the answer, but I think, you know, because like, uh,

with, with tennis, I don't know exactly if it's like the, one of the majors opens. I don't even the answer, but I think, you know, because like with tennis, I don't know exactly if it's like the one of the majors opens. I don't even know the fucking terms. But like at the end, whoever wins the male championship gets to go against the female championship or champion, whatever. And it's like an entertaining thing because it's tennis. And you guys can imagine who mostly wins that. But it's always like, oh, yeah, we want to see women do better at dudes and dudes sports or whatever.

I think if Leah Thomas was able to compete with the men and be like, holy shit, how amazing is this? A woman is ranked 430 whatever in the men's division. I don't know if that's the answer. OK, I'm just thinking in my head like I think a lot of people would support a woman competing against men again. And I just think that that would be a lot more fair. Serena Williams has herself said in an interview that she would never compete in men's divisions. She said that she wouldn't even rank top 100

in the top male tennis players. And she's the best woman in the world. And that's not not she is fucking amazing but there's biological differences i think uh billy jean king uh was a tennis player i think that she played against a male athlete but i want to say like the a tennis player i think that uh she played someone who was like you know a good tennis player i don think that she played someone who was like, you know, a good tennis player, but I don't think she played like the best.

Maybe you can look that up. It's kind of interesting. These things are, they're really fascinating because they're actually like, it's strange because it's like a moral dilemma in some weird way. Like when somebody, when somebody gains access to something

and they, gaining access to something is fine. But then when it takes something away from somebody else, that's where it's problematic. Having a faster person in any race is an advantage in a lot of ways because everyone should move a little faster because you have someone that's faster. But again, in this case, it's like you're taking places or a place away from somebody else that is, they work their whole life under these certain circumstances.

You're a female swimmer and you've been doing it since you were eight. And you finished third and fifth and first and second and third and fifth and so on, and you start to get pretty good at it. And you find the 400 individual medleys or thing, and you start kicking some butt in that. Now you found your groove. Now you're getting first a lot, first and second. You get a scholarship for it. First and second, you get a scholarship for it.

Well, now that you have an opportunity to train in the – go through college, maybe train at the Olympics and things like that. And then all of a sudden, the rules of the game didn't necessarily change, but the type of competitor that you're going against completely changed. And now you don't have an opportunity. Like you can't train around that or for that there's nothing you can do for it it's it's an it's an advantage uh that you don't have the same access to it's not it's not like um not like a new piece of technology came out it's not like years ago and swimming they they banned these suits because they made people a couple tenths of a second faster. Now someone previously was born

a different sex and now they're coming into sport with a huge advantage. I think maybe people just need to think this out a little bit more clearly. I actually think it's a little bit of a moral situation. I'm not in favor of it because I kind of think that it's

like stealing candy from a baby in a way. That's rough way to put it but you're it's very true yeah it's lying on your birth certificate to go play in the minors or whatever right when you should be in the majors right yeah we've seen that in like little league for for years where they lie about the kids age and the kids look at 11 at 11 years old right and the kids looks like in sema like in the parents on the other teams would always be like i want that kid's birth certificate he is not 16 right but like you would think oh so what it's it's it's a the kid's only a year and a half older but at that age it makes a fucking huge difference you know a year and a half is a long time yeah yeah so uh 48 oh whatever uh september 20th 1973 tennis champion billy jean king at that age was 29

defeated self-pro self-proclaimed male chauvinist bobby quote no or bobby no broad can beat me rigs in the battle of the sexes tennis match an estimated 50 million viewers tuned in to watch making it the most viewed u.s tennis match of all time yeah yeah exhibitions i think would be kind of neat like people that want to participate and want to compete against and that might make more sense yeah i get what you're saying but the the problem with everything turned into, especially trans athletes, if it turns into exhibitions,

individuals that are trans are already looked at differently. Already some people look at them as freaks, as it is, right? So it would be, there's been a fight for them, for people to see them for who they are already. But now if they're looked at as like exhibitions,

that would be an issue for that. Absolutely. But they can't compete with, like you can't compete with women. Because if this happens, there's going to be a lot of, you know, people have mentioned this, but maybe there is just a, like there's separate categories and i those trans individuals have talked about how that's a problem too because they're like but i'm a woman or i'm a man and we understand that but you cannot negate biological differences again as men we

generally don't care if like we don't care if a trans man competes. Trans man being somebody who is formerly a woman. We don't care. Because they're not going to be able to compete against the elite. Most of the time, at least, it's rare. And if they do, holy shit, that's amazing. But it's highly unlikely. This only really affects women and women's sports.

And they're going to be the ones who are going to be fighting against it. In powerlifting, I don't know how aware people are of this, but like, depending on the federation that you're in, sometimes there's drug tested federations. And sometimes those drug tested federations have a lot of rules and stipulations around how long you've been, you know natty for oh yeah and uh it brings up a lot of interesting stuff because people are like well i don't know like if you took them previous if took steroids previously maybe you're holding on to the gains three years later and you're forever altered and so on and so they used to have like a like a grace period used to have like a certain amount of time you know and i think maybe you'll see some sort of rule or stipulation with something like this

where there's like a time period associated with it. I don't know how big of a difference that would make. You know, I'm not sure if you're just born a male, if you're, you know, automatically gonna, you know, I don't know what year or how many years or I don't know what would make how many years or I don't know what would make a difference or what would try to even things out. I'm not even, I'm not even really sure, but all of it's really interesting. Let us know in the comments below what you guys think about this.

Just, I don't know, we're in some fascinating times sometimes with some of these things that come up that we just never probably really thought of before. Same thing with our technology. It's moving so quick. We don't always think of all the different things and repercussions that can happen with all the different technology that we have. The world's moving fast. So let us know in the comments below what your thoughts are on that. Andrew, take us on out of here.

Absolutely. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Please make sure you guys like today's episode and subscribe if you guys are not subscribed already. And if you are on the iTunes or Spotify side, don't be shy. Come over to this episode on YouTube and drop us a comment below. Follow the podcast at Mark Bell's Power Project on Instagram at MB Power Project on TikTok and Twitter. My Instagram and Twitter is at I am Andrew Z. Also on TikTok at IamAndrewZ as well.

Nseema, where are you at? Nseema Inyang on Instagram and YouTube at Nseema Inyang on TikTok and Twitter, Mark. Also, peeps, if you could let us know. Let us know if you want us to talk about this a little bit more. Let us know if you want us to have somebody on that can speak from a different side of things since we don't know what the fuck we're talking about.

And we can make that happen. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never weak. This week is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.