Mark Bell's Power Project - Natural Men’s Physique World Champion - Chris Elkins || MBPP Ep. 965

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

In Episode 965, Chris Elkins, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about how Chris became a world champion and the impact growing up without his parents had on him and some of his early relationship decisions. Follow Chris on IG: https://www.instagram.com/chris_elkins/   New Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://drinkag1.com/powerproject Receive a year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 & 5 Travel Packs!   ➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!   ➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!   ➢ https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off Mind Bullet!   ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save up to 25% off your Build a Box   ➢ Better Fed Beef: https://betterfedbeef.com/pages/powerproject   ➢ https://hostagetape.com/powerproject to receive a year supply of Hostage Tape and Nose Strips for less than $1 a night!   ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM   ➢ https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject to save 15% off Vivo Barefoot shoes!   ➢ https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori!   ➢ https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep!   ➢ https://marekhealth.com/PowerProject to receive 10% off our Panel, Check Up Panel or any custom panel!   ➢ Piedmontese Beef: https://www.CPBeef.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en   Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz   #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

Fatherhood is like the most important job in the world. I mean, maybe motherhood's more important, but you know, it's up there. And I just learned everything, like how to be patient, how to, you know, just that unconditional selflessness. You know, as guys, like number one, we do want to be attracted to our partners. So we want to be with someone who we do find is beautiful, but there does seem to be just a little bit of a through line with the beauty and craziness. I think there's a lot of people that don't know that a relationship, for the most part, should be pretty smooth.

It's unfortunate, you know, because I think people, they end up in these relationships, and it's not like it happens overnight, but these kind of red flags pop up, and then you just kind of take one on the chin, and you take another one on the chin, and then over a period of time, it ends up. Yeah, stability is super important. I didn't realize realize coming from a home that wasn't very stable i guess i didn't realize how much i need it and want it and crave stability like being able to go to sleep and wake up knowing things are okay without having to feel like you know i just wanted no anxiety and and that's what i have now like the last four years i've had so much stress and so much anxiety

and so many breakups and so that's that's basically what I'm looking for and that's what I found. And it's incredible. Yeah, now people are going to be like, well, he must have tons of Botox done. Yeah, I just want to stay looking as young as Mike O'Hearn. Well, he's natural, so any tough act to follow. He's a living legend. Have you ever trained with him? Have you ever trained with O'Hearn? I have not. I've seen him trained before. Yeah. He's a living legend. Have you ever trained with him? Have you ever trained with O'Hearn?

I have not. I've seen him train before. Yeah, he's a beast. We've trained with him before and he's a freaking monster. Hey, but Encima has a better back. That's all I have though. That's all I have.

Well, you got legs. I don't know if my legs are better than his. Well, it's kind of fucked because Encima doesn't even train that way right now He just tosses a kettlebell around Just imagine You give him like 16 weeks Just 6 months or so

To bulk a little bit Get a little puffy And come back down I'm getting a little moist thinking about it On the way over here I listened to the Ali Gilbert Give me the TRT I'm getting a little moist thinking about it. On the way over here, I listened to the Allie. Allie Gilbert.

Yeah. Give me the TRT. I'm ready. Oh, I thought you wanted this. No, after hearing that podcast, I want the TRT. Yeah. Okay, so would you, because Chris, I don't know if people know. That was a one-hour sales pitch.

I'll take it. Right? It's a commercial. Heck yeah. You're the world champ for men's physique in the WNBF, but have you ever, like you're. What's the WNBF? What's the WNBF? but have you ever, like you're, what's the WNBF? What's the WNBF? Uh,

World Natural Bodybuilding Federation. There we go. Do you have a belt? I should. Fuck man, they never gave you a belt? No. That'd be sick.

That'd be sick if you walked in here with a belt. Yeah. The trophy is dope though. I should have brought it. Oh, that's cool. It's like a glass, you know,

a little world on top. At the ripe age of 28, have you ever considered TRT? 28? I wish. I think 28 is still an insult, dude. I mean, I don't know. Look at that face.

I'd say, dude, it's got to be, like I said, 16 or like maybe 30. Let's play a game with the audience. Guess his age. Yeah, we can't say his actual age, though. I mean, my birthday is in less than a month. So we were talking some Botox and you were saying that you think maybe people should utilize that a little earlier.

Yeah, so I never would have jumped into it on my own, but I had some people locally reach out and I was like, you know, I'm not the type of person really to be that vain, you know? Fucking dude. Being a pro bodybuilder, you think you'd be a slam dunk, right? Looking at every reflection you possibly can, walking by the car, flexing the tricep and everything.

That was good. No, but for real though, I'm cheap. That's what I meant. I'm cheap. And I already look kind of young. But, you know, I went in, I'm cheap. That's what I meant. I'm cheap. And I already look kind of young. So, but, you know, I went in, I tried it out, and I was sold on the fact that it's so preventative for future wrinkles. So what happens is it, like, even if you haven't developed wrinkles,

you freeze these muscles for a period of time, three to four months for most people. If you're more athletic, you're sweating a lot, like it might not last as long for Nassim because he's constantly rolling jiu-jitsu, whatever, you know. For the average person, it could last three to six months really and um anyway wrinkles form because of constantly making wrinkles you know going like this and doing these expressions and stuff so yeah i mean if you like let's say you wait until now you get them it's not going to have as big of an impact as if you would have started 15 20 years ago and you got

most of this information from Michael Hearn? Yeah. He has like a user manual he sent to me. Are you into a moisturizer? Honestly, I'm not very good at any of that stuff. I actually have hyperhidrosis, so my hands sweat. So I hate touching them. What is hyperhidrosis?

This is new for us. I might have that. Yeah. Is that when people shake my hands at these trade shows and their hands are all wet? Yeah. Fuck, it's a condition? I'd rather just fist bump you. COVID was great for me because I didn't have to shake any hands.

I was like, why is that motherfucker's hand so slimy? And it's not 24. It's just like a built-in anxiety that causes hands to sweat, you know, just all the time. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. They're relatively sweaty right now. You ever try to put deodorant on? Here, fill them. Oh, yeah, a little bit.

It's not that bad right now. I'm not nervous. Good to pummel basketball, though, probably. Or being a pitcher in baseball. Oh, yeah. You got to spit on the ball and stuff. Okay. Yeah, I think playing video games comes in handy.

You want to just slide around. Yeah, you want a little bit of moisture. Not too much, not too little. It just depends, though. Throw though throwing a football these little details are things i haven't thought about like yeah that does make some sense you always lick your fingers and you throw a football i mean at least i do oh yeah is it everywhere else or just the hands for me i have a palmer and planer so that's hands and feet that's another reason why i don't go barefoot like i'm always wearing socks because you're just making excuses now no i'm dead serious we had a conversation earlier about barefoot stuff and sweaty feet i'll be slipping and sliding i

can't i need socks that's amazing i can't wear barefoot shoes or anything like how do you get how do you figure this out i mean it's my whole life it's an affliction my god you're trolling right now i'm dead serious i'm a near perfect human but i have a few things i got a few things sweaty hands are probably my my biggest insecurity so you can't wear shoes without socks otherwise they're toast right the shoes you got to throw them in the garbage well no i mean they'll just i'll just be squeak squeak you know slipping like slot i like slides because i can put socks and wear slides, you know. But regular flip-flops are almost a no-go unless I know like I'm just going to have a day where I just don't care if I'm all.

I make mud in my slippers, you know what I mean. Now you got me flustered. Kind of a nice feature of the skin that when your hands are wet for a long time they get like crinkly no no they're super so my hands are really soft because they're always moisture lubricated yeah exactly always lubed up lubed up yeah okay now we can see where this is helpful so anyway this conversation was that i don't use lotion because i don't like if i touch lotion my hands will sweat the rest of the day yeah almost. How is it for when you used to date then? Would you never just never get nervous? Because if you get a little nervous with a woman

and then your hands are sweaty, that's kind of nasty. Right, so certain girls that I've dated in the past have given me a lot of anxiety and my hands will be more sweaty. And it's a thing. He's afflicted, he told me. If you eat, it kind of calms you down a little bit when you eat. And so like, you know, having a nice meal, I'll tell you this one shot of alcohol and

it completely stopped sweating because it, the anxiety, the inhibition is gone. Yeah. So no longer feeling that internal anxiety. That's great. Just take a shot here and there. I know today. I wish I could do that. Honestly.

Are you a sweaty sleeper? No, not at all. Okay. I could do that, honestly. Are you a sweaty sleeper? No, not at all. I actually don't sweat hardly. You'll never see me sweating, really, hardly ever. Even during workouts? Even during workouts, yeah. Just maybe a little glisten. Yeah, maybe.

I did a hot yoga class yesterday. I was sweaty. That's a different story, though. So when did you win your championship, and was that a goal that you had for a long time? Yeah, that was 10 years in the making. I mean, i didn't set out to do it in men's physique i i turned pro in natural bodybuilding 2015 and i switched to the men's physique category in 2019 won my pro card for a show and then um you know i just worked towards it and won that world

championship 10 years in the making yeah november was uh worlds and what is like you're 39 now like how old are you when you're in your first competition i'm 38 bro chill oh oh you're turning 39 okay my bad my bad um when was your first competition i was 28 it was uh my first season was 2013 i did four shows that year um i definitely shouldn't have been competing but i'm glad that I did. Why not? I just wasn't, I had only been training for a short time.

I had some muscle maturity from being in the Marines and just lifting weights off and on in high school, but I had never been consistently weight training for more than six months at that point. And I hired three, I saw some Matt Ogie's videos on YouTube. I hired three DMJ.

Jeff Alberts coached me. We did four shows and won the novice overall at an NGA show. Then I did open and did well. Then I took one year off and won my pro card. Not off, but one year to gain. Was any of it difficult for you?

Have you... Yeah, everything was hard. Adopting a bodybuilding style diet takes some time, takes some patience. But it sounds like you were probably messing around with all this stuff before you got into like hiring a coach and before you got more serious. You probably were already lifting and things like that. Yeah, no, I honestly like almost my first step was almost hiring a coach. Wow.

Which, I mean, is not typical. I just kind of jumped in. I was like, I saw. Sounds like a great way to start. Yeah, I mean, is not typical. I just kind of jumped in. I was like, I saw. Sounds like a great way to start. Yeah, I saw Matt. Yeah, I skipped a lot of the, you know, mistake making because I saw Matt August do this thing. And I was living in Fremont in the Bay Area. And I was like, okay, well, this is all kind of local, you know, Northern California.

And I just jumped in and committed to it. And I like hard, difficult things. Y'all are probably going to pause. I like hard difficult things uh y'all probably gonna pause I like difficult endeavors and um I I knew that first prep was just life-changing for me like it was so mentally and it was physically hard yeah but it was more mentally hard like the dieting you know getting down for my first time ever getting a single digit body fat I had been lean before but I had never been shredded and um I just realized like, I find that really fulfilling. And I don't know why. I mean, it's similar to being in the Marine

Corps for me, like contest prep and Marine Corps bootcamp were very similar, you know, in my opinion. I hear a lot of bodybuilders talking about the impact that it has on like a significant other to go through these preps and the impact that it might have on even just friends, your kind of social life. Did you experience some of that, some of those setbacks and some of those hard times with that? Yeah, for sure. My wife was just super supportive. I was married 15 years, got divorced until I was 19. It's a whole story that we could probably get into a little bit if you want, um no she was great amazing like she cooked my food figured out she doesn't diet or exercise at all so for her to just like be that supportive of me she was like all like if i was into something she would support me 100

and then at that time were you uh did you have any sponsorship was there like anything coming in for that or it was just like something that you personally were super interested in pursuing? Yeah, it was just a straight up a new hobby that like, that's even more amazing than shoot. Yeah. So I'm like always looking for something competitive to do. And then that was like, I had done a triathlon, I had done half marathon, I've done, you know, all these like mud races, and, you know, these obstacle course stuff and, um, road bike cycling, but nothing like where I'm actually like standing on a stage, like bodybuilding. And so in my head, I thought like, oh, I could probably do this. I think that I could be okay at it.

And then, um, I never imagined that I can win the world championship when I started, like that was, didn't seem like a realistic goal in my head and never really intended it to, to take it that far. But I just I just fell in love with the process and put my head down and just worked hard at it. Have you had a struggle in terms of trying to get like bigger? Because I noticed like, you know, you have to gain a bit of muscle if you're going to try to come back with better physique, but then you have a big social media following. Right. So do you have a struggle with trying to gain muscle or putting on some body fat? Are you totally okay with that? Yeah, I mean, I think these days, body image is something that everyone should think about and talk about because social media

puts a lot of pressure on you to maintain a certain physique or a certain body fat, especially these young kids seeing these like other shredded kids on TikTok and these kids are starting to take steroids at such a young age and they have unrealistic expectations of how they should look at 17, 18, 19. Um, but for me personally, I, I don't mind. Um, I I'm, I'm very lucky when it comes to body fat distribution where I store the majority of my body fat in my lower body. And so even at 13, 14%, I still look like a fit,

relatively aesthetic person, at least from the upper body, you know. No one can see that my legs have absolutely zero striations on them, you know what I mean? It's like, or that my ass is super fat. Your ass is super fat. That I get like holes in my jeans when if I walk too much or whatever, you know, no one can see, no one one thinks about that but i'm just fortunate when it comes to that so but i've um at this point yo do you get the holes like right here like at the very top and it's dangerous too when that happens then you get chafed really bad yeah i can't wear like if i wear short shorter shorts like swim trunks and i'm at the beach if i I get a little wet or whatever, and then it dries, and then that's the worst chasing. You're done.

And you got to walk like, you know, it's terrible. It gets tender. People wouldn't expect that from me because I'm only 160 pounds, so they wouldn't think that. But I was a very small frame, small hips. Anyway, but yeah, so me personally, it doesn't bother me that much because i'm fortunate now if i stored my body fat differently then maybe i would be more more worried about it like i'm not going to be unrealistic or lie and say like no i wouldn't it wouldn't bother me if i had a a keg instead of a four pack year round or whatever you know i don't know i think it probably

maybe would affect me a little bit yeah yeah but Yeah. But at this point, based on the criteria for men's physique, they don't really want me to get significantly bigger, like at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, they're already – I'm a pro in bodybuilding and physique, but physique is where I'm most competitive at. And so if I were to get bigger, I wouldn't place better. What were some strategies you used to get bigger? Well, definitely taking time off and – not off,, but like from time away from a calorie deficit, focusing on being in a surplus for as long as

possible. My, my longest, I'm going to get fat. Yeah, no. So I was so sad, completely okay with that. In fact, I just ate into every time I'm not prepping, I intuitively eat, but I continue to track my weight. And my goal is anywhere between a one to two pounds a month. And that's a very nice, slow, and steady gain. And then, obviously, just making sure I'm getting stronger in the gym. In fact, I'm still hitting lifetime PRs. I did, for me, this is great for you guys. It's like a warm-up. But I did 225 for three on incline bench press.

Okay, sick. Not that long ago. And I couldn't, in last season, I couldn't even hit one. I failed it multiple times, and I'm like, I should really stop trying this. But I felt really good one day in the gym. And I hit it for one. And they were like, oh, you had two. And I was like, man, I think you're right.

And then two weeks later, I come back and I hit it for three. And I was like, man, I'm making gains. This is crazy. But no one knows, too. Like, didn't you have a shoulder thing a few years ago? Oh, yeah. Labor? Tore my labor on my left shoulder.

What was it from? Bench pressing. OK. Yeah, I was doing a mock pilot to me. What was it from? Bench pressing. Okay. Yeah, I was doing a mock pilot to me. This was all the way back in 2014. I got the surgery, healed up fine. I was out of the gym for about six months. And I've gotten a lot of injuries over the years, but I've always come back better and stronger.

So it doesn't even faze me anymore. It's disappointing to get injured and have to take time off, but I just use that time to spend more time with my family or to focus on work or other hobbies that I have. I always say, like, oh, injury, that's my deload. Yeah. Yeah. Or some of those mistakes that maybe led to those injuries, so some of the people listening can maybe try to avoid those.

Yeah, so I did a mock powerlifting meet, and that's when I tore my labrum. So I think I was just genetically predisposed to having that type of injury. So now I don't really ever go below five reps after I just tell you I hit a three rep max, but generally speaking, I don't ever go below five reps when I'm training. It's very rare. And I'm just a lot more careful. I, you know, manage my training a lot smarter than I did back then. Yeah. Your arms are, I would say maybe a little longish. And so when you bench press, your elbows are going to be back behind the midline of your body, putting a little bit more stress on your shoulders and pecs. Yeah. Leverages are everything. Honestly, like I think that's one of the reasons why I've been so successful in men's Physique is because I've seen in my own observation that people with really long arms generally have larger chest.

People with really short arms generally have larger triceps. Oh, my God. So sorry. And that comes down to, like you just said, the longer your arms, the longer your forearms, the more shoulder adduction and the more your chest is working. Meanwhile, you have little short arms. You're getting a ton of tricep activation. Yeah. So the picture on the left, according to the caption, is right after the torn labrum.

Yeah. So the labrum surgery was July 7th. And so this picture was on my birthday, my 30th birthday. And I was pretty bummed out because I'm like, dang, I just turned 30 and this is the worst shape of my life. And what's the time difference between these two images? They're a little over a year apart. About the weight difference. 170 on the left and 145 on the right.

That's the funny thing though, because I don't think people realize like the amount of probably steroid comments that you get is crazy. But the thing is, is that physique was still underneath the 170. Oh, yeah. But when you get leaner, you look like you're just a bigger human being. Yeah. You're 30 pounds lighter. Just hibernating in there.

Yeah. Was powerlifting pretty useful to help get you bigger or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think strength training like absolute strength training to get stronger can be very beneficial. But if the risk to reward is not good for me personally, so that's why I've avoided it. But for other people who have maybe larger, thicker joints, I think it could be great to include. I mean, look at Jeff Nippert. He's done a great job of being super strong and super jacked. And, I mean, look at you and Seema, super strong, super jacked. And I mean, look at you and Seema,

super strong, super jacked. I actually have gotten several DEXA scans. And even though I lift weights five days a week, I lift really hard. I eat plenty of protein. All my blood work is good. I have a negative two Z score on my BMD. Really? Yeah. Even though you've been lifting like all your life? Yeah. I have very thin, long bones. And I think that's, you know, just what it comes down to. I wonder what it would be if you didn't lift. I know, right? So maybe it's still a massive benefit to you.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think I'm at risk for osteoporosis or anything, but who knows. But, you know, visibly you can tell I have thin, long bones. Even though I'm short. Yeah. That's wild. I think bodybuilding is an amazing sport because we talk about a lot of different types of training and lifting. And there's a lot of sports and things that you can do and CrossFit and weightlifting, powerlifting. These are all fantastic things to get into.

But I think bodybuilding you can kind of do forever. You can start out in bodybuilding. You can kind of finish off your career in bodybuilding. I think you can do it at 13 and you can do it at 65, 70. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm my best ever heading into my forties. Like I, I think that's incredible. And, um, you know, I always joke with my friends cause I didn't really play any sports growing up. I felt like I was like a late bloomer, you know? Um, and here I am a professional athlete. That's crazy. How about the Marines? What did you like learn from that time in your life and how long were you in the military?

So I was in the Marines for five years and, uh, I, I calibrate electronic test and measurement equipment. So I had a tech job, but every Marine's a rifleman. So you go through the same, you know, everyone goes through bootcamp and it's super difficult. 13 weeks. You have no contact with the outside world. Were you married at that point in your life too? I got married right after bootcamp. Okay. Um, so I joined when I was 18, uh, almost a year after high school. And then I, I think a lot of it, I had some separation anxiety. My childhood was a little rough growing up and in my head, I kind of, I didn't want to be alone. Like I'm going off. I was going to say, if you signed up for the Marines at 18, something home would probably wasn't right. Yeah. So my, my mom and dad were both into drugs. My, my, uh, mom was a drug addict. And, uh, so I was raised by my grandparents after the age of nine and, um, life got a lot better after, you know, going to live with them as a lot more stability, but I would still like, I'll go visit her every summer and always something crazy would happen.

I would usually not end up spending the summer with her. I would go with my maternal grandparents. And it was just a turbulent time in my life. And anyway, so I think that contributed to, you know, looking for something regimented and structured. And so I had no desire to join the military. But I got approached by – I was working at Best Buy. I was taking a year off before. My plan was to start college a year after high school. working at Best Buy. I was taking a year off before I was, my plan was to start college, uh, a year after high school. I wanted to take some time cause I was in a bunch of magnet programs, um, all through like fifth grade, middle school, high school. I went to a magnet high school

and, uh, you know, for like gifted and, um, I, what's the magnet high school? Basically like one high school in the district. So I was, I grew up in Virginia beach, one high school in that district gets the gifted kids from all the other high schools and they all bus them to that one. Gifted in academics? Yeah, like smarter. Okay. And then I don't know. These are them big bus kids. Long arms.

They take all the kids with long arms. Put them all. Man, these kids. Your arms are too short. You got to get out of here. Plus five inches or above on the wingspan. That's what they're looking for. Doug, what the fuck?

You're just. It's about the same as yours. That's insane. I'm like 71 inch, 71 and a half, something like that. Oh, we got to get you into some MMA, right? Why don't you box? Rock climbing. I really enjoyed it.

Indoor rock climbing. Anyway, so they made us take like AP classes and honors classes. And by 11th grade, I was like, yo, this sucks. Everyone's having fun and I'm taking all these hard ass classes. And so I didn't even finish at the magnet program. I just kept going to that school, even though it was like 17 miles away. But I just graduated with regular kids. Regular kids.

I'm thinking people are listening right now. It's fucking regular dumbasses. Yeah. People are also like, I'm thinking people are listening right now and regular dumbasses yeah people are also like I'm so dumb I've never heard of a magnet school I've never heard of it well we weren't magnet kids so it wasn't on our roster right 12th grade I was only thinking about girls and making money so I was like selling bootleg CDs I was working at Best Buy basically full time. And I was, you know, going to high school.

So it was crazy. And I was so burnt out by the end of senior year that I was like, I'm just going to work at Best Buy and then I'll start college. And then a Marine recruiter comes in and he's like, you know, why don't you talk to us? And I'm like, listen,

I already said Navy, leave me alone. Air Force, I'm not interested. Army, hell nah. And then something about that marine uniform the dress blues and then they i just stopped by the office i heard them out they were like we are

the best don't you want to be the best and i was like it's like the commercials i am my grandma always used to tell me i was the best and i was like i am the best and they're like well then here sign up and i was like okay let's go and i sign up. And I was like, okay, let's go. And I don't know. The rest was history. Three years later, I was in Iraq. I'm like, what am I doing? It was 2003, so I was like, oof. How long were you there? Seven months.

Okay. It was a good experience. Right now, I know you're looking in the mirror. You're getting ready for your nephew's quinceañera. You have a long sleeve on that looks horrible, and your pants don't fit right. That's why we partnered. I don't know why you're laughing. That's why we partnered with Viore Clothing. You see, this this is the Boulevard shirt jacket. Fits great. Stretchy. Feels amazing. It's the best long sleeve in my closet.

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Links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes. Fucking hell. I would imagine, yeah, that experience must have made what you got into later on. Yeah, like the discipline and the situational awareness and just like, even though, so we weren't, my job, there's only like 120 of us in the entire Marine Corps. There's over 200,000, or I don't know how many

is in the Marine Corps right now. Maybe 100,000 something. Anyway't know how many is in the Marine Corps right now, maybe 100,000-something. Anyway, my field was very small. They wouldn't let us leave the— I was at Camp Altacottam, Camp TQ they call it. It's an air base. They wouldn't let us leave. We couldn't go on patrols, couldn't do anything.

We had to stay and work on, you know, calibrate this electronic test and measurement equipment. And so even though I never left base, we were getting, like, mortared two to three times a week when we first arrived. So I got there February of 2006. By the time we left in September, we weren't really getting mortared very often because they have like this like LIDAR system set up.

So the mortars come in and then they can track like the direction and the, I don't know, the coordinates and they send a team out there and smoke the guys. And so it's kind of cool to see like how, even though I was only there seven months, how from when we started, we're getting mortared all the time. And then by the time we leave, it's like much less. But I remember one time me and my roommate were walking, this is like two weeks before we leave.

So the new guys from the East Coast, I was stationed on the West Coast, Camp Pendleton. The East Coast guys are already there. So they took our houses, like their little trailers. They took our trailers and now we're staying in the squad bay. They called it Hotel California. Me and my roommate, we're not really roommates anymore because we're no longer in a room, but we're walking to the Hotel California

and this mortar goes off like 200 feet in front of us. And we're like, oh, shit, that's crazy. If we left, it was in our line of path or whatever, you know. So if we would have left like five minutes before, it could have hit us or something. It's nuts. But otherwise, like, nothing crazy happened while I was there at least. That's quite interesting.

Did that give you, I guess, do you think about death in a different way at all? Because, like, with that, like, I guess, do you think about death in a different way at all? Because like with that, like many people have probably had maybe close to getting a car accident or those types of experiences. But quite literally with that, you were five minutes. If you guys left five minutes earlier, you wouldn't be here. Right. Do you think about that at all? Does that hit your mind or is it gone? Yeah, no, I don't think about it too much. Honestly, I've had a few like near death experiences. So I don't know i think it's it's not not that big a deal you ever get really jacked up from training you have

anything like wipe you out what do you mean like you ever get like seriously injured or just like fucked up from you mentioned uh yeah so not really from training but like um and seaman knows about it in 2019 um i had just won my pro card in men's physique. And three days later, so we got back on, I think we got back Monday night. I went straight to the gym. Worlds was less than two weeks away. And I swear I was going to win the WNBF World Championship for physique that year. And instead, that Wednesday night, I couldn't eat or drink anything. And I had a, I didn't know it at the time, but I had intestinal volvulus.

So my intestines got in a knot for no apparent reason, and had I not, if I'd been more stubborn, not gone to the doctor, it could have ripped open, I would have went septic, I could have like, you know, I could have died, obviously, but other things could happen, like you get, your blood gets poisoned, like a very similar thing happened to Craig Toth,

you know Craig Toth? The name's familiar. Yeah, so. Yeah, bodybuilder, yeah, yeah. Yeah, um, a very similar thing happened to Craig Toth, you know, Craig Toth, the name's familiar. Yeah. So bodybuilder. Yeah. Yeah. So he actually lost his leg because they didn't know, but he had a hole in his intestine. And so he was going septic. It was like leaking into him and ended up getting necrotic or whatever in one of his legs and ended up having tons of surgeries. And anyway, it's, uh, yeah, I'm very fortunate. It didn't rip open or anything. They thought it was appendicitis, but on the CT scan, it didn't show anything. So then they think, okay, he's just constipated. And I'm like, no, listen, I'm on prep.

My diet is immaculate. Like I'm going every morning. Anyway, so they ended up having to open me up. And obviously that's the end of my season. And I didn't know if I was ever going to be able to compete again because the scar so fortunately this was I went to the VA in um what is it not McClellan uh Rancho Cordova does anyone know what it's called I forget the name of the Mather Mather that's it yeah yeah so I went to that VA and just by chance the lady who the female doctor who did the surgery on me, she was amazing.

She had just taken a course on small incision surgery. By the way, I'm like 7% in body fat. We had a conversation. I was at 10 out of 10 pain. They touched my stomach. Basically, nothing could go through because it was literally a tight and a knot, constricted. Did they give you painkillers or anything? No, they couldn't because they thought that I was constipated.

So they're like, we don't want to make it worse. And I was like, I don't, like, just put me out. Like, I'm dying. This feels so bad. Kind of a 10 pain in the stomach area has got to be atrocious. Yeah, some of the worst pain in my life. And so she had just taken a course on small incision surgery. And knowing that I competed, she kept the entire thing below my belly button.

So the scar is actually, when I'm shredded, you can't even tell. Yeah. Like, it's like, yeah, you can't see it. No, it's not that bad. I mean, it looks like a happy trail or something when, when my body fat's a little bit higher. I don't like the way it looks at all, but when I'm leaner, like leaner than I am now, then it's almost unnoticeable. Do you know any way that could have potentially been avoided? Because it's interesting that, I mean, it's probably happened to many other people, but you mentioned another bodybuilder type. It's pretty rare, but it's, you know, there are some other people on social media that had a similar thing happen to them. But basically what they told me is that when they went in, my intestines were, the large intestine was missing the mesentery tissue

that holds it to the abdominal wall. And it was like that my whole life. And I just, you know, never decided to tie myself in a knot until that day. And I was 35 at the time. So I was like, why did this happen, you know? How long have you been cycling, dude? Because cycling, I don't know if you still do that, but that is like, it's a lot of cardio.

Yeah. I haven't been if you still do that, but that is like a lot of cardio. Yeah. I haven't been riding as much recently, but I started riding like seriously in 2008. And like, has that habit helped? Like, why did you stop doing it? Well, so it's just any hobby, you know, sometimes you are more into it, less into it. Playing video games, playing poker for me, same thing with those hobbies too. But I really enjoy cycling, the feeling that you get. I think it's with anything, you know, like the issue is the dosage, right?

So like I know cycling is one of the worst things for you when it comes to testosterone. You're sitting on your seat bone and you're, you know, doing 50 miles. It's not the best for you. So in my 2018 prep, I was cycling about 150 miles a week and I enjoyed it a lot. I had just bought a new bike. So I was like really into it. I was cycling with these senior citizens that live in my, my city. And, um, we were going every like Monday, Wednesday, Friday doing 50 miles each day. And, um, my legs looked the best they had ever looked. I also dieted the hardest I ever dieted,

but I was also significantly smaller and my testosterone was the lowest they had ever looked. I also dieted the hardest I ever dieted. But I was also significantly smaller. And my testosterone was the lowest it's ever been. I did a test. And Derek from More Plates, More Dates did a video on me. I think it was like 42. My total test. But that was like, that was peak prep. So that means you were at lean.

Two days before Worlds, before I started carb loading. This is something that's super interesting because like, I even had a client that was a natural bodybuilder and he got to like his his body fat was ridiculous but when he got a test done he was like wow my total testosterone's at 20 20 wow yeah yeah because like completely crashed because like when when natural guys get lean and they're not able to take exhaustive testosterone your shit just go like you don't want to fuck you don't even think about sex. Food is the only thing that's on your mind.

But, and see, I'll tell you this, so last, so I worked with Merrick and did Blood Panel before, like three weeks into prep, I wanted to do it before, but I was a little late, so like three weeks into prep, and then I did it again right before I did NPC Nationals, I did bodybuilding last year, and I was actually grinding way harder, and I was actually grinding way harder.

And I was like, oh, this is going to be so low because I'm doing an hour plus of cardio every day. I had just came off the win at Worlds, and I wanted to jump in to try to get my IFBB Pro Card. So I did both bodybuilding and men's physique at Nationals. Anyway, long story short, it was like 300-something. It wasn't even that low. Were you eating more fat than you were the preps prior or no?

Yeah, a little bit more fat. Yeah. And I've been doing that since 2018. Yeah. So that's been one of my things that I've done differently is 50 to 55 fat and usually never below that. I think that makes the whole difference. Back then I was like 40 or less sometimes. Also just significantly less cardio and just obviously I'm not getting as lean because I'm not doing bodybuilding.

Like I still had weight that I could have lost for that prep as well. But I was actually really happy to see, um, my, my free test was 21, which is above normal, even though my total test was only like 500 something. And that was in the, like three weeks in the prep. Did you always need cardio? Like some athletes use it a little more or less or for you, did you find it always helpful? Yeah. So I work from home as an online coach, and I don't get as many steps as most people. So I have to add in some cardio or my calories are going to be even lower than they already are. And then what about for your clients? Do you normally recommend cardio? I do because a lot of them are similar in lifestyle to me.

So if someone is a student and he's walking all over campus and getting 10,000 to 15,000 steps a day, then I'm going to assign significantly less cardio. But if they're sedentary or they have a desk job, office job, and they're not getting those steps in, then, yeah, I will assign formal cardio. What are some of your thoughts on people get into very large debates about like – You love cardio, right? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I'm a fan. I just think that, you know, certain people, it might be more appropriate for them versus others.

So I was just kind of curious, yeah, on your take for it. I think, you know, I think originally, I think the... Interestingly enough, the people that we keep interviewing on the show, we've talked to so many different people and people talk about cholesterol and heart disease and they talk about all these different things. there's more and more people now uh in the longevity space talking about strength training uh in particular people are talking about hypertrophy trying to gain some muscle mass and the things it can do for your bone density and so on

and it's just funny because uh things just kind of work in this like circular form it's like oh you you're talking about bodybuilding and you're talking about kind of like a bodybuilding style diet yeah with the lower fat because we had a guy on recently talking about saturated fat and you might want to you know i guess uh allocate 10 percent uh of your diet to about um for saturated fat and too much you know too much of it you know not not a good thing type yeah i think i mean too much of anything is not a good thing right like too much cardio is if your goal is to have more muscle mass that, not a good thing type of thing. Yeah, I mean too much of anything is not a good thing, right? Too much cardio is if your goal is to have more muscle mass, that's not a good thing. But no cardio at all is most likely not a good thing either for most people,

especially depending on how intense their training is in the gym. I mean I think the healthiest people are the ones that do a combination of both. Yeah, why not do both? Right. A little bit of both. What's that commercial mean, look at... Yeah, why not do both? Right. A little bit of both. What's that commercial with the girl on the El Paso tacos?

El Paso tacos? Why not both? Why not both? Yeah, you don't guys don't do that commercial? I don't know the commercial. Kids these days. Little Mexican girl.

Yeah. Why you gotta say it like that, bro? Damn. What? Little Mexican girl. I'm Mexican and she's a little Mexican girl. You get mad at a Mexican for saying little Mexican girl? She looks like Dora. See, now that. No, I'm mexican and she's a little mexican girl you get mad at a mexican for saying she looks like dora see now that no i'm just kidding

she really does jesus christ he's gonna find it i'm gonna get us canceled and you're you're a marine too why are you speaking like that i'm a quarter mexican oh yeah you are that's true have you seen the mustache that's horrible yeah i know damn she does's true. Have you seen the mustache? That's horrible. Yeah, I know. Damn, she does look like Dora.

Can it get curly? No, it's super straight. Wow, she does look like Dora. See? Why not both? I use that meme

often whenever people ask me this or that type of questions. So what's the answer here? Full range of motion? For me, yeah. Are your team full motion? For me, yeah.

Are your team full ROM? I mean, I am, but not to like a degree. So for example, right now I have a little bit of pec tendonitis in my right pec and I have very short tendons and very long muscle bellies. I love how much you know about your body. It's fucking wild. It's really cool. Not to be too vain or anything. No, I think it's, I mean, you're a fucking pro and you know about your body. It's fucking wild. It's really cool. Not to be too vain or anything. No, I think it's, I mean, you're a fucking pro,

and you're a world champion, so it makes sense. Yeah, so I have to be careful, but I do believe in full range of motion. I think working the muscles through their entire range, and then I think doing some exercises where it overloads the shortened range, the lengthened range, the mid-range, is all important if your goal is to gain

as much muscle as possible naturally, but I think you have to be very careful with that fully, um, lengthened range because it's very easy to, your muscles are going to grow faster than your tendons and your ligaments. And I, I'm very susceptible to tendonitis all over my freaking body. And so for those movements, just go lighter, right? Yeah. Or, or just, you know, if you're dealing with some pain, like for like right now, I can't do any flies. Um, and the same thing happened to me at the end of last prep. So I was just, just, I've taken flies out and I've, you know, stuck with pressing my chest is, is a strong point anyway. So it's okay. For years, I was dealing with, um, some elbow tricep tendonitis pathology. And I've just been very strategic about how I train it

and doing more like one-arm movements. That's around with any myofascial release or you have anybody kind of work on you a little bit? No, but I need to. Yeah, that might be helpful. I think so, for sure. We can show you some stuff. Especially now that I'm getting older.

Is there anything that really moved the needle in terms of your training? Like, obviously maybe taking certain movements out, etc. But is there anything that really allowed the needle in terms of your training? Like, obviously maybe taking certain movements out, et cetera, but is there anything that really allowed you to go to another level, maybe increasing frequency or anything like that? Well, I've always been a fan of hitting everything twice a week. Okay. And I think one thing that's helped a lot for me recently

is that I have focused more on sleep. I used to not give a damn about sleep at all. How long? I think now that I'm getting older. Since I got divorced, I think. Okay, so that's when you started focusing on sleep? Yeah, not on purpose. It just happened.

And then I'm like, damn, I feel better. Like, I feel good. Yo. So how much sleep do you think you were getting before? I was getting like anywhere between four to six hours of sleep a night, most nights. Okay. Bodybuilding is a full-time job. And now I'm getting between seven and nine most nights okay it's kind of bodybuilding is a full-time job and now i'm getting between seven and nine most nights so significant increase and i've noticed a difference i don't

even i hate to admit it but like yeah i feel like it definitely i just feel better i feel like i have less bags in my eyes i look fresher i but that all that being said i got three hours of sleep last night so yeah um shit. What about pushing? In strength training, we hear a lot of controversy back and forth about whether you need to push to failure. What are some of your thoughts there? Yeah, I'm a big fan of training very close to failure. I think on your – like let's say that you – I like doing straight sets. And if I'm going to do, say, four sets of 10 to 12 reps,

then, you know, I'm using the same weight. I like to warm up without fatiguing myself, so I'm acclimating. So let's say, for example, I'm going to do 205 for four sets of 10 on bench. Then I'll do 185 for two to three reps. That'll be my last warm-up set. And then I'll load up 205 having a, you know, adequate rest is very important between each set for me as well, so anywhere from three to six minutes or whatever.

And so that first set, if I get to 10 and I feel like I have more, but I'm, like, I don't want to go to absolute failure on that first set because then the total volume is going to be so much lower. Second set, I'm going to be so gassed, you know. So then by that third and fourth set, I'm much closer to, like, R that's i've i've trained that way and i've had really good results and i feel like i've gotten stronger training that way and um but i am pushing most sets very close to failure and then in the succeeding exercises i would imagine that your rest intervals might be a little shorter and maybe the uh intensity might be a little lower like the weight might be a little shorter and maybe the intensity might be a little lower, like the weight might be

a little lower, less. Yeah. So the other exercises might be, you know, machines versus barbells. You start out with a little bit more of a strength focus. Right. And you might move into a little bit more of a quote unquote bodybuilding, straight bodybuilding style. Yeah.

And I like to alternate rep ranges on a weekly basis. So I'll do more like 10 to 12 one week and and then the next week I'll do more 6 to 8. Let me ask you this, man. Like how many years have you been training now? 12. 12. So like how have you been able to continue making progress in the gym? How do you adjust things so that it feels like progress is continuing to make?

And how do you even look at progress? Because it's not always the weight on the bar, I'm assuming. Yeah. So, you know, technique is super important and i and i've i want to be moving the same weight but with with better form over time because i don't necessarily think i'm going to get infinitely stronger obviously but if i can move this better or maybe i don't you know what i mean like just being able to come in and do each set with better execution over time is key. And then there is some small strength gains over time, obviously.

And stage weight going up is a big indicator of, for me, the better that I perform, the better that I look. So most of my improved performance will be visual. improved performance will be visual. Have you stopped and, I don't know, paid attention to some of the like, especially like the Instagram and YouTube experts will see a workout and tell you that what you're doing is not optimal. So have you ever stopped and maybe, especially now as you're getting older, kind of looked into that and tried to understand maybe what some of these people are saying? Oh yeah.

I mean, I consume a lot of content. So I'm always like, you know, I like JPG coaching stuff. I don't necessarily always agree with everything that someone posts. But I'm definitely always looking at other people's content and, you know, the latest studies and figuring out if there's anything that's changed. But the thing is, for the most part, things are not changing that much, you know. If you could get jacked 50 years ago, you can get jacked today. The key is intensity, volume, frequency.

These variables are not going to change. And so if you use shit form, you could probably have better results if you used better form. Not saying that you're not going to have good results. Some people get away with using shit form. It doesn't mean that they have good results if you used better form. Not saying that you're not going to have good results, even while some people get away with using shit form. It doesn't mean that they have good results because they use shit form. They have good results in spite of using shit form. I know that I'm personally prone to injury, so I have to be more careful. But I know that I can push really hard the intensity very close to failure.

And I do, and I find that works really well for me. I probably backed off on volume a little bit compared to a few years ago. And I think that's contributed to me having less tendonitis now. So I found more of a sweet spot and it's just, just a few less exercises, a few less sets during the week. TRT, it's a popular topic. A lot of guys are hopping on it and something that we've talked about a lot. And you might think you're a candidate, but how would you know if you haven't got your blood work done and you don't know where your markers are? That's why we've partnered with Merrick Health owned by Derek from More Plates, More Dates. And the cool thing about Merrick is you'll get your blood work done and you'll also have a patient care coordinator that can help you analyze your blood work,

analyze your testosterone, all these other markers to help you actually figure out if you're someone who needs TRT, because there could be things that you could be doing nutritionally with supplements or even with your lifestyle that can boost your testosterone to the levels that they should actually be at. Andrew, how can they get their hands on it? Yes, that's over at MerrickHealth.com slash PowerProject. And at checkout, enter promo code PowerProject to save 10% off the Power Power Project panel, the checkup panel, or any individual lab that you select. Again, that's at MerrickHealth.com slash Power Project. Promo code POWERPROJECT at checkout. Links in the description as well as the podcast show notes.

I think it's really cool that bodybuilding is like really intuitive. Or bodybuilders, I should say. The way they describe stuff. They might say, hey, when you do a lateral raise, it will really shape your shoulder. When you do a bent over row, it's going to help add thickness to your body. When you do these barbell movements will add kind of thickness and maybe some of these other exercises are going to help carve you out,

sculpt you out, these different words that they use. And it's always – when you think about it, you're like, well, science-wise, I don't know how any of that makes sense, but it's just kind of, but it just kind of does, you know? And again, the bodybuilders of like the seventies, I know there's in bodybuilding, there's kind of always looming over bodybuilding are anabolics and performance enhancing drugs and stuff like that. But kind of that stuff aside, it seems like bodybuilders have had stuff right for a really long time. The idea of pushing a failure, the frequency that they choose. You mentioned twice a week, most body parts and stuff like that.

And then even in terms of the amount of fat that they consume, I do understand some bodybuilders in prep dive you know, dive it down maybe too low. Yeah. Just to get calories lower for sure. Yeah. You gotta be kind of, I guess, cautious of that.

But in general, it's like, man, bodybuilders seem like they got their shit together pretty good. Yeah. I mean, every now and then there's a study that comes out that's like, Oh,

that's news or whatever. Like the whole deload thing was, there's a new study came out recently showing that deloads were not very effective. Thank you. Well, basically, like, they took two groups, right? And then they have eight weeks. One of them just trained straight through and one of them took a deload week in the middle of that training. The group that did not take the deload fared better.

Now, of course, eight weeks is very short, right? But just in general, I think, you know, I'm not a person that memorizes studies, but... I wonder how hard these motherfuckers are training. Yeah, that's obviously, I think a lot of people don't train hard enough to take the deload anyway. Yeah.

Because, okay. Just like with a cheat meal. Yeah. It's like, I don't know. Bro, are you even dieting? Yeah, do you really need this, you know, what do they call it, refeeds? You think deload is a bullshit, Mark? Yeah, kind of Yeah, do you really need this, you know, what do they call it, refeeds? You think D-Low's a bullshit, Mark?

Yeah, kind of. Why do you think they're bullshit? Well, I think taking a whole week off is so dumb. A lot of people do that. That's very popular with the— I think a lot of recovery techniques in general are just—they're overblown. Like, they can be utilized, and it's really smart to utilize these things, but you shouldn't have to have someone massage you every single week if you

know how to train properly. You know, you can still get benefit from those massages. Like we've said earlier, you can do both. But I think people in talking about recovery is because I think they're training improperly. They're doing something slightly off. They're not adhering to the percentages. You know this from running.

Like you've got to kind of, as much as you hate to stick within this heart rate range when you're on a bike, if you don't adhere to that, you're not going to get any better. Yeah, or like if you're, the bike is a good analogy because if I'm trying to finish 50 miles, if I go out and I'm doing 180 beats per minute I'm not going to make it 50 miles if that's my heart rate the whole time if I'm not acclimated to that now if you're acclimated to it that's one thing but the overreaching you got to be smart

and the recovery is going to suck and that's even more important for powerlifting than it is for hypertrophy training but they all kind of overlap a bit I think a lot of recovery stuff is BS too I think foam rolling is kind of dumb, but I think mobility is super important. And I think the people that foam roll are more likely to focus on their mobility. So I think things go hand in hand and they overlap.

But I think personally, I think foam rolling is a waste of time, but I should really focus more on mobility. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. The D-Load thing I think is just really interesting, though, because I want to see how that study was done. Look. Okay. Okay. The DLO thing I think is just really interesting though because I want to see how that study was done because I know – Look it up. When you train –

Andrew's on it. Hard. Yeah. If you look that up, when you're training actually hard in the gym – I remember when I had those five to six-day training weeks and the volume is high each day, there's no way I could have just done that eight weeks straight and continue making progress. I needed that week. I could feel that shit. But maybe you should have just lowered the volume a little bit.

You could lower the volume, but then you can make the argument of, okay, if I lower the volume, then I'm getting less overall volume throughout. And yeah, you can go without that week. Maybe there was a sweet spot where you lowered the volume and it matched without taking a deload. Matched volume without taking a deload? Yeah. Potentially. Potentially.

But the thing is also with deloads, yeah, I don't think it needs to be a whole week, but I think there is a point where people need to back off a little bit. Maybe it could be two or three days of lighter training. Right, yeah. It doesn't need to be seven days. I agree. That makes sense. Maybe just take two days off, period, an extra two rest days or something.

Potentially, yeah. Mark, there's another one about refeeds because you mentioned that, a study that shows that people took two groups. One didn't take refeeds. One did during a dieting phase. The group that took refeeds maintained significantly more lean body mass than the ones that did not, that were just the same calories throughout. So, I mean, I think there's things that are optimal, but then there's things like some people can't take refeeds because they turn into cheat days, you know what I mean? Or their ghrelin or whatever spikes, and now all of a sudden they're starving.

So now their adherence is bad. So I think there's what's optimal and there's what's going to work for that individual person. And you have to – coaching so many – like I've coached probably 2,000 plus people. We're all the same, but we're also all different. So you got to find out what works for each person. And through some like auto-regulation, I think everyone's going to end up with like sort of a deload almost anyway, because you can't always predict exactly what you can handle. Well, yeah, I'm going to get hurt. So that's going to be my deal. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you mentioned earlier in the show. Sometimes you go in and do a 5x5 on a deadlift,

and it might not even have been something that you thought was supposed to be this challenging workout, and it turns out you kind of tweaked something. Yeah, rep 23. And then next week, what are your choices? Your choice is to not do it, which I guess would be a deload, or to do it much lighter, which I guess would be yeah in the category of a deload keeping you uh still in the game and hopefully not getting more injured would there to be something you consider in the future because obviously you can't do that and compete in the wmbf but in the future you think it'd ever be

something you consider or no i don't know you don't know mean, it's a good question. I'm not 100% sure. I don't want to wholeheartedly say no, never. But I also would hate to have significantly lower testosterone than I have now just throughout my life. You know what I mean? If I was having medical, like if I had ED or whatever and I did my blood work and my test was super low, then to me having a good sex life would be more important than competing in the WNBA. Yeah. What is your testosterone outside of comp?

Well, I don't know. So three weeks into last year's prep, it was mid 500s, which I think is fine for a mid to late 30-year-old man. It's probably in the 600s. Yeah, that's what I would think. Okay. If I was in the peak of a bulk or whatever. Yeah.

You mentioned adherence um how do we keep our gym bros to adhere to their diets because i mean it's gonna sound really mean but you know if you go into a gym you see dudes working really hard but everybody has a little bit of a belly and it's like all right dude like obviously you're not eating the way you're supposed to so with coaching so many clients, what have you seen that really works and helps people kind of, you know, really get that awesome shredded look? Yeah, I mean, with coaching, it's different because they're hiring you. So you're providing that external accountability. So you lay out a plan for them and a lot of people are going to follow it, you know, at least 50-50 probably, right? But I think the better thing is just to let them have the belly. I mean, you know, at least 50-50 probably, right? But I think the better thing is just to let them have the belly. I mean, you don't have to be shredded. It's okay

to be 15 to 20% body fat, you know? Let me be shredded. You just do your thing. Live your life. Have fun. Have some pizza on Friday, you know? Well, okay. Let me be shredded. That's so good. Yeah. Maybe get a bicep vein yeah right yeah can we compromise to that work towards bicep i think it would be great if at least one time if it didn't give you body's more fear for the rest of your life get get to 10 to 12 body fat to see how you look and feel and if you feel good and you and it's not like killing you to stay then stay that way because you'll probably be healthier but trying to get get to 7%, 8%, most people should never do it. It's just not worth it.

Now you're going to get body dysmorphia. You're never going to look that good again, you're going to think. You know what I mean? Just like most people shouldn't compete. I think competing is awesome, and I think that I love it, and it changed my life. And I love helping people get on stage for the first time. But realistically, not everyone should compete. And if you already have body image issues, you're going to just compound them.

What do you think is like kind of a natural – Especially women. What do you think is kind of a natural body fat level? Just period. Healthy or American? Yeah, yeah. I think 12 to 15 for men would be great. Just like our ancestors would be great.

Yeah. I think that's probably, I think, I think like during the end of fall, they probably got up to like 20 something. And then by the time winter was over, they were probably single digit, like, like that show, um, alone or, uh, yeah, me too. Netflix. Let me ask you this, man, because the one thing that I do notice is that there's a lot of people who they will go up and down, up and down, and they're like maybe in fitness, but it's like they, they have stages where it's like, wow, you really gained a lot of weight and now you're doing another transformation. So what are some habits that you think you put in line for yourself and maybe for your clients that will allow them to maintain a healthy physique for the rest of their life? Because the goal of getting in shape isn't to get there, take a few pictures and then

balloon up again. Like you want to look good forever. So what do you think people should try to do so that they can maintain that for the rest of their life? Yeah. So I really do try to steer my clients eventually towards intuitive eating. And I think by tracking macros for anywhere, like religiously for six months or kind of tracking macros for a year is going to give you such good knowledge on nutrition and what you're putting in your body and you're going to develop this routine

and you're going to feel what it's like to eat at maintenance or in a deficit or in a surplus. And then you can take these skills and slowly release the grip and start eating intuitively without having to, uh, you know, be so OCD about it and, um, be able to maintain that body composition, especially if it's a maintainable body composition. I mean, I don't, I think some people get too lean and then try to maintain that and that creates problems and rebounds. And that's why competing is not good for everyone because they're going to end

up rebounding. So I think staying closer to the lower end of your body fat set point would be better than trying to undershoot it by 5% to 10%. Kind of recommend people to go out and walk. Yeah, being more active and gaining more muscle obviously is going to make it easier to maintain your body composition as well. If you're sedentary, it's harder because you have a certain serving size and portions that you're used to eating, and then you're just not burning enough calories to maintain that.

So gaining more muscle and being more active are going to be great ways to maintain that body composition. I mean, look at you, Nsemi. You're very active, and you have strategies with your eating. Obviously, genetically, you're gifted as well. But if you, anyone can get fat. And if you ate an all-you-can-eat diet, you could get fat. Yeah, no, we know that.

We know that. I've seen you heavy before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't even have to eat. You can just drink a bunch of the Simply Lemonade. Dude, if I just take a few days off, I'm at 260. That's that straight up that's crazy that this guy walks around at 250 100 pounds more than me yeah insane

yeah let me ask well let me ask this man because you mentioned you you were married for 15 years you got married early you had kids early what did that? Compared to most people, you had a child at 18, right? Was that when you had your first boy? 19. 19, right? Yeah. She was born when I was 19. Yeah. She's 19 now, coincidentally. She's 19 now, right? So what did you learn from that? Just having kids so early and getting married super early, what'd you take away from it? Don't do it. No, I'm just kidding. No, I learned a lot. I mean, I think fatherhood is like the most important job in the world. I mean, maybe motherhood is more important, but, you know, it's up there. And I just learned everything, like how to be patient, how to, you know,

I don't know, man, just that unconditional selflessness. Dang, she's cute huh yeah it's crazy when they first come out man I know so they did the vacuum thing and the head was like

cone head when she came out and so I told Jane I was like okay don't freak out but they said her head's gonna go back to normal cause it was all like

like have you seen that before no I have not yeah it's pretty crazy yeah the head's kind of like elongated yeah because they they like didn't want her to push for too long or whatever they induced her at like 36 weeks yeah yeah same thing with christian but no i mean i i learned a lot i think i i don't think most people should do that obviously but um we we were already married and then got pregnant four months later by accident. It was like I've actually successfully used the pull-out method for the majority of my life. And like one time, it's like come at me and then boom.

Literally one time. And then for Christian, six years later. Next time someone says that, nope. Six years later, we were like we're ready for a second kid and we it was already too long honestly we should have had had christian earlier but um we're like okay so let's say we just stop pulling out and then boom pregnant one month yeah that's basically what it was for us too just pulling out non-stop and then one time oh yeah yeah it's because y' cause y'all are fertile people.

Yeah. It's in your blood. Yeah. My, my ex-wife's Filipino and they're pretty fertile too. Yeah. Double whammy. Well, okay. So let me ask you this then, because like, obviously you're married for 15 years and then you, you, you know, had some few relationships after that. What did you, do you think that maybe, cause you got married early, do you think you got married too early maybe? Yeah, of course. I think, like I mentioned, I had like maybe a fear of being alone or some separation anxiety or abandonment issues or whatever with my not having my mom and dad. And I felt like by getting married, then my wife could come with me to my school, which was almost a year long in the Marines for the job that I had, and then on to my duty station. And it was a way of having security and not—which sounds shitty and selfish, but we made the marriage work.

Maybe I felt like I missed out on some things. There's no excuse for not being a great husband. I wasn't the best husband. I think it was a great father still. I think I'm a good father still. But obviously I could have done things a lot better, a lot differently. The grass is greener where you water it. And I could have like really invested more in my marriage.

And that's, I don't want to say that I regret anything because who knows where I would be had I not, you know, like honestly, if I, if I didn't get divorced and I wouldn't have switched the men's physique, like the girl that I dated after, um, that I got engaged to was, uh, was like, Oh, you should do men's physique. And I'm like, ah, I'm not really into that. And then she, she used to date the Mr. Olympian physique. So she was like, yeah, bro, you're just dropping names. Damn, bro. We weren't going to do that. Wait, what? It's public? Yeah anyway yeah it's all it's all public so it's fine it's yeah it's you know yeah so jessica was like no like you have the best natural physique for men's physique based on the criteria you should do men's physique why are you why are

you wasting your time doing bodybuilding you're gonna continue to get beat by big black dudes and i was like yeah you're right you're right did she say that specifically though so so i switched them in physique and the rest is history here we go i'm glad we got a white guy in there thank you appreciate that oh fuck man hey but there's there's there's you know there's some sad truth to that but that is that of course i mean i'm not – like I'm very objective and realistic. Like obviously I'm not going to win an overall world championship in bodybuilding. Just – it is what it is.

Yeah. I hate to sound like a broken record, but your sleep quality most likely sucks. It's one of the biggest things that we talk about on the podcast. So many guests have come on and talked about how sleep can help you stick to your diet, stick to your workout plan, lose body fat, gain muscle, all the good things that you're trying to do. But it's hard to do because you might be snoring. And if you're snoring, that's why we've partnered with Hostage Tape,

which is mouth tape that you can put over your nose, your mouth, when you're asleep to help you stop snoring and breathe through your nose. But if you haven't been breathing through your nose this whole time while you've been sleeping, it's going to be a little bit difficult to get air through there. That's also why hostage tape has nose strips to help open up your nasal airways and make it easier to breathe through your nose when you're asleep. Now your partner won't be having a fuck with you when you're asleep because you'll be actually breathing through your nose.

Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at hostage tape.com slash power project, where you guys will receive an entire year supply of nasal strips and mouth tape all for less than a dollar a night. Again, that's a hostage tape.com slash power project links in the description as well as the podcast show notes. Now it is interesting though, the, you know, you did, you did get married super early, but a lot of guys find themselves getting relationships where they feel super, and you know, you had two kids, which is amazing. So there's nothing taken back there, but you know, you did get married super early, but a lot of guys find themselves getting relationships where they feel super. And, you know, you had two kids, which is amazing.

So there's nothing taken back there. But, you know, I've been in relationships where I was just like super comfortable with the person and we were together for a long time. So it's like, well, this is nice. Why not just stay here? Right? Yeah, but you never got engaged or married, though. No. No, I mean, I know that.

I'm just saying. Yeah, but I didn't get engaged or married. Yeah, just long relationship. Do you want to get married? Yes. Okay. Yeah, the girl, I know that. I'm just saying. Yeah, but I didn't get engaged or married. Yeah, just a long relationship. Do you want to get married? Yes. Okay. Yeah, the girl I'm with now. Things are looking good.

Yeah, yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Me too. My current relationship is incredible. I'm so, the happiest I've been, honestly. Why? I think I was attracted to a lot of toxic things that I've identified over the last three to four years.

I was in an off and on relationship for four years. And it was like a pretty bad cycle. Like just allowing things to be just disrespectful things. Just not like, I don't know how to, I want to put this into words, you know, precisely. But basically. Maybe your idea of a relationship, maybe you didn't have it like fully formed in your head because you didn't maybe have other experiences to go off of.

Yeah, perhaps. I mean, I just didn't. Maybe you didn't have a role model of parents and so on. Yeah, all of that is true 100%. And I sacrificed so much. You know, I was married for 15 years. I felt like I had to make this relationship work. And as much as I love this person, I wasn't putting myself first, that's for sure.

And I just, you know, I wanted to do whatever I could to make it work. And at a certain point, you have to, you know, you have to realize that there's nothing you can do. You know, if it's at a certain point, once you to realize that there's nothing you can do. At a certain point, we did couples therapy. I did a lot of individual therapy. I read books. The one thing that I can take away from that relationship is that I really made myself a better partner. I improved a lot.

I saw areas where I was lacking. I felt like there were some things where I was coming into the relationship. Maybe I was expecting things like I was selfish because I was in my marriage it was I didn't know I didn't know how good I had it honestly like cooked cleaned emotionally supportive um sex whenever I wanted like all all these things like you know 15 year marriage together over 17 years still having sex like quite frequently, you know, four or five times a week, whatever. Um, never saying no about anything. Like I was in control of everything. So then in this new relationship, everything's completely different. Like I, I'm having to wash clothes for the first time, wash dishes for the first time in my whole life. Like I'm like, cause my grandma did that for me and then my wife did that for me. And then now my girlfriend was

not doing that for me. So not that she, I mean i mean she did great she was like great in other ways like like um you know i love this person a lot and but and i and i improved a lot like i started doing dishes i started washing clothes i start like i i did these things and i i like really tried to make it work and um anyway the whole these are like minor things it's just in my head that i'm thinking. I just didn't realize how good my marriage was, honestly. But yeah, it just didn't work out. There's differences. But now I'm focused on the person that I'm with now. There's just no red flags.

There's no toxicity. There's no like I'm looking for these signs of like, okay, when am I going to see the, like the, that something's not right or whatever. And I just can't find anything. I'm just incredible. Let me ask you this. What,

what are some, uh, what are some red flags that you, you might've been looking for? Cause I'll say this. Like, I remember when, when I was dating,

I like, it's not that very beautiful people it's not there's a where's this going the more careful someone tries to word it the better it's gonna be we're all like listening in anticipation like you know as guys like number one we do want to be attracted to our partner so we want to be with someone who we do find it is beautiful but there does seem to be just a little bit of a through line with the beauty and craziness yeah we've all seen this okay so i'm just curious this is also the fuck around and find out chart as well right so just is there anything that like you took away

that you think just guys maybe want to pay attention to? So my friend Ahmad, he's Muslim. He said, Chris, beauty is a red flag. And I was like, bro, come on, chill. He was serious. No, I'm serious. Anyway, my girlfriend's beautiful. She is, yeah. But this, okay, these red flags I'm looking for, this has nothing to do with any previous relationship. I'm just saying for me now moving forward,

definitely looking for like, I want to have like a hundred percent trust both ways. Someone that's not selfish, something that's like very kind and loving and caring and affectionate. Like that's important to me. Like very, you know, stability is super important.

I didn't realize coming from a home that wasn't very stable. I guess I didn't realize how much I need it and want it and crave stability. Like being able to go to sleep and wake up knowing things are okay without having to feel like, you know, I just want it, no anxiety. And, and that's what I have now. Like I've, the last four years I've had so much stress and so much anxiety and so many breakups. And so that's, that's basically what I'm looking for. And that's what I found. And it's incredible. I think there's a lot of people that don't know that a relationship for the most part should be pretty smooth.

Yeah, I know, man, you know, I think it's unfortunate, you know, cause I think people, they end up in these relationships and it's not like it happens overnight,

but these kinds of red flags pop up and then you just kind of take one on the chin and you take another one on the chin and over a period of time it ends up yeah I mean I'll tell you there's something addicting about rollercoaster though the highs and the lows the highs are so high and then the lows are so low and I make up sex yeah but I mean to me it would i mean not even doesn't even have to be sexual but yeah i mean obviously but yeah we get into argument my dick gets hard oh yeah tell me you hate me now tell me you love me any anyway i actually um i talked about this on another podcast i did recently with uh doug miller you know so um, and I hadn't really talked about this publicly, but I talked about it there.

So I actually was prescribed, I'm having a brain fart now. Like an SSRI? Yeah, yeah. Zoloft. And so it's the lowest dosage, but I did go up to 50 milligrams during my last breakup, but I was feeling too like zombified and went back to 25. And starting August 1st I'm gonna start cycling off so I'll go to 25 milligrams every other day and then probably

stop taking it but I honestly believe I attribute that to the reason why I was able to stop going back to to my ex and the toxic cycles because uh of taking Zoloft like basically I would get so low from like when now we're broken up. And even though there were, I don't want to sound ridiculous, but like dating apps are like, I could go out with lots of girls. Like not that I'm like Fabio or something over here, but like,

you know, I look decent and I know how to talk to people or whatever, you know? And so that was not the issue at all. It was just none of them. I wasn't in love with any of these people, these random girls that I'm going on dates with. I wasn't in love with them. I was in love with my ex.

And I was just so down. Even though I'd have a great time or whatever, have a great date, I'd still think about, oh, man, I want to text her. I want to go back. I want to reply to her text or whatever. And I felt like taking Zoloft kind of – there was like this level where I would hit this level of depression to here and then Zoloft would keep it here. And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm fine. And so I was able to just continue with life and develop other relationships and eventually finally move on.

Did you ever have lows like that before that? I don't think so. Honestly, I'm, I'm a very happy person. This was like the only thing in my life that I was like, almost feel like I was addicted to that, that relationship. And I've not, you know, my, my mom's an addict.

My, my dad has, you know, been off and on and stuff as well. And it's, I, uh, I think I was fortunate to not get that addictive personality.

Like I've, I play poker all the time. Gamble, um, never felt like I, I can stop working out anytime. I'm not addicted to anything, video games, anything. But this, I clearly obviously was addicted to it because I was unable to quit it.

Did you notice any other, I guess I'll say side effects from the Zoloft or anything like that? No, not really. Honestly, just the common one, which is like the delayed ejaculation or whatever. So what does it—because I've never used any SSRF, so what does that feel like when you take that? So, okay, a lot of my preps, I've had very tumultuous relationship issues. And you know, your testosterone gets low

and you're doing cardio. And I remember the last few years, just like crying on the cardio machine, crying in the gym, watch a sad commercial, like a minute long commercial, crying. But I just don't feel that way anymore. But then again, I wasn't in a deficit either.

So I kind of am, I feel almost similar to that now. I guess 25 milligrams, probably not that much. But I just feel more emotionally stable. Like I still laugh and stuff at a great time. I just don't feel as emotionally vulnerable. Gotcha. Okay.

I think that's incredible that you went through that. I think it gives you a lot of perspective. Maybe it can even give you some perspective in coaching people and understanding that like, oh, now I kind of understand why these people fall off. Like, I shouldn't be so pissed at this guy. Oh, and I never, I'm, I'm very empathetic. Like, I think empathy is like a, I don't know. I mean, sometimes, sometimes I read emails from clients and I get like, I feel how they feel, you know, I understand. And I try to tell them not to be too hard on yourself, but obviously we want to get results too, you know, so it's double-edged

sword. But, um, I, I almost, you know, we've broken up every year and last year, um, I did ayahuasca and that was a life-changing experience for me. And it would have, I think I would have been good, honestly, like, but two days after I did it she moved back in and it kind of started things over but I really did feel like I I changed from doing it like it was crazy the what'd you see?

saw so much man we had a timer or what? no we're good what'd you see? no we could just start over so I saw God bro I saw everything like I'm not even a person that does I I'm not like – I don't do drugs, you know.

So don't do steroids. Don't do recreational drugs. I'm not even into like – you know, I'll take an edible, THC edible to sleep because now I'm prioritizing sleep. But even too much of that, I heard, affects your REM. So anyway, long story short, my friend is so, he's done it like 15, 20 times. He brings people to it. He's brought Cain Velasquez. He calls it the medicine, which, because to him, it's not like doing a drug.

It's the medicine. So he's brought a lot of people to this place in Hollister, and it was a life-changing experience. I had never done mushrooms or anything, so talk about going zero to it. That's like doing crack as your first drug or something. So my first psychedelic was ayahuasca. So I go there, I'm laying down, I'm looking up at these trees,

and I drink one cup, nothing's happening yet. It starts to happen, and then they come by with the second cup. Even though I'm already thinking I'm good, like I'm starting to see stuff already. I take the second cup and now I'm laying there and I'm looking up at these trees and the trees have like a design and now I'm seeing things and then I close my eyes and I still see the trees, but now everything's morphing into other stuff. And I saw like Jesus Christ's face.

And then I see like- What did he look like in that vision? Yeah. I mean, it's like the the curly beard you know with the look like Jew look Jewish basically like a Jewish guy did he look like that one right there thank you Jesus no no not like that dark darker feature olive skin anyway so I'm this this is what I'm seeing and then I'm came, so they tell you to go there with an intention. Like you're looking for something, right?

That's why most people are there. And for me, I wanted clarity. Like I was in the middle of a breakup. I wanted to know, is this something I'm supposed to fight for, something I'm supposed to let go? And I look at this tree and it has these two paths. And I see two entire lives play out. One where I'm like making it work.

And it does. It works. But I mean obviously it's difficult. This other one is kind of difficult too. But it also works. But way less difficult. And with both paths what I saw was that I was happy. Because I don't really need someone to be happy.

I was happy no matter what. And then so instead of getting clarity to try to do something or not do something what I took from it was stop trying to hold on so tight and try to force things to happen just allow them to happen so then that's why when she moved in two days later I was like well I can't say no

I just said don't force things but I probably should have said no you know like stupid but but i saw a lot of stuff i saw a lot more stuff than that i in fact there's no cell signal there so i remember at one point i just you just feel like an overwhelming amount of gratitude and i pulled out my phone and i'm crying and i start typing these notes and i see like all these women's women that are in my life i see see their faces, different women's faces.

And like Jane, you know, obviously is a big part of my life. I see this girl that I was talking to at the time concurrently. I see like a bunch of like a really good friend. That's a girl who was a doctor who actually is the one who prescribes Olaf to me. And I saw right all these notes down and I'm like, I sent them to him later and they thought I was crazy because they make a lot of sense. But I was like, Hey, I just did ayahuasca and this is, I was like feeling very grateful that you were in my life and I wanted to send this to you. And, um, yeah, it was crazy. I would do it again for sure. Like I, um, but you can't, you can't be taking, uh,

SSRIs because you, you could have, I don't know, some, there's some kind of thing. So you have to be off for at least six weeks. Gotcha. How long was the experience? It's like eight hours. Oh, did you get sick at all? Yeah, so the third cup came, and then I take that. And then I throw up like barely anything, just a little bit,

because I fasted the day before. I think I had like a banana and an apple or something the day before, and then didn't eat anything that morning. And then they actually have a meal for you after it's all over with and i felt like really out of it when i was done but i just remember like being so happy and crying and my friend shane is the one that brought me there and i was like i love you man thank you so much for this you know highly recommend it though yeah try that out Try that out. It's incredible. Yeah. So then where can people find you and like if they want to get coached

and all that good stuff? Oh, yeah. So the main platform is Instagram. It's Chris underscore Elkins. And it's just, it's Chris Elkins on every platform. So I just got back on YouTube. I'm documenting this contest prep.

We are going to defend the world title. I'll be the 2023 Men's Physique World Champion. I'm going to be the first back-to-back overall world champion in the WNBF. Okay. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.