Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 12 - Cory Gregory & John Fosco

Episode Date: February 26, 2018

Cory Gregory makes a return with his business partner and homie John Fosco. The dynamic duo share info on how MusclePharm came to be and how they are growing their new venture with Ronda Rousey, Max Effort Muscle. ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/user-921692324 ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell

All right. Well, I'm going to fire up another power project here today. We're here with my boy, Corey G and his business partner. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I met Corey about nine years ago. I grew up fighting. I loved fighting. And when the UFC started to gain popularity, um, I was training. I saw void in the marketplace and, um, I created one of the first online retailers that had everything from MMA gloves to shorts to shirts. And that led me into creating relationships with UFC fighters. From there, I built the largest management and marketing agency in the space. And we managed Muscle Farms corporate sports marketing budget and a lot of other

large companies like Microsoft and Sony. Very cool. And Corey departed from his old company and I sold my previous business literally the same week. Same time, yeah. And we did so well together and there was so much success in the marketing program, um, that, that we helped to put together that we chose to become partners. And we were working on the opposite sides of the table, even though we were together, you know what I'm meaning? Like we worked, um, you know, as marketing agent and, uh, as a company, but I was complimenting each other. Yeah, absolutely. One's weak, the other one's strong and vice versa. Yeah. We're know what what if we uh now we're on the same side

of the table it should be pretty fun even though we worked i think really well like we had already had a relationship so we knew we could work together um which is a huge key when you take on a new partner you know what i mean as you know so yeah you know muscle farm uh back in the day they were seemed like they were wheeling and dealing with all the big names. There was a lot of good publicity surrounding the company. They had Arnold. They had C.T. Fletcher. Tiger Woods. This is just to name a few.

The UFC main deal, which was big, which John helped with. It was like we had the awareness, and then I built around the social media stuff that kind of captured the person. But what was interesting about that was got to do all that stuff. And now transitioning from that to building direct to customer, very similar to a business like you run, Mark. It's like, I don't miss the retail game, to be honest with you at all. Dealing with vendors and all that kind of stuff like we did with MP, we were in a hundred countries, 60,000 doors. It was big, but there was a lot of holes when you're that big sometimes. And so John and I build max effort together. Like we just, I learned so much. John learned so much

because he was in the trenches with me on a lot of the marketing stuff. And like, we're able to deploy things we know I would never do again to do right by this one. And so, yeah, it was a great learning experience and it was, it was successful to a certain point. Yeah. It's cool. And the reason why we're shooting the shit about MusclePharm is because Corey Gregory is a co-founder. Yep. How did all that come to be? It seems like when I first met you and stuff and you started telling me that you were the co-founder of it, I was just kind of blown away because the company did turn into a big juggernaut, turn into a big machine. So how did that come about?

Yeah. a big machine. So how did that come to? Yeah. The fast, fast, fast version of the story was my old business partner. I had met through another company and called me one day and just said, Hey, you know, I know you understand the training part of it. And the customer, like he knew I was good with people and I could, you know, kind of build that around. Same thing I do for our business now. And, um, just asked me if I, if I wanted to start, start a brand, then I was like, you know, I've been trying to get into the space because I have like two different lives, basically. I've got the personal trainer, Corey G, that's a local business guy that I built for eight or 10 years. And then when supplements started kind of entering into my, I guess, fitness journey since, we'll say almost like 10 years ago, then I have kind of that

version. My business is really split in two different lives. There's the pre-MP and post-MP, which is now in the max effort. And so it's like, I was excited to get into the space. I didn't know what I was doing, just like anybody else that gets in the business. So like, it was such a good learning curve to see something grow like that. And then to, you know, the second time around,

change a lot of things. So it's like, there's wins and losses in every business, right? And so it's like, I look through and think, I was able to build a personal brand. I was able to get a lot of things. So it's like, there's, there's wins and losses in every business. Right. And so it's like, I look through and think I was able to build a personal brand. I was able to get a lot of experience. I was able to do a lot of stuff. And, and this time around, there's like some really good things that I won't redo and some other things I wanted to do and didn't get a chance to do because it was the way, the way it operated. So what did MusclePharm like spawn from? Like what, what was it created off of? I think it was a mix of looking up to Bill Phillips, which we've talked about, you know,

wanted to be a cooler version of EAS back in the day, right? Yeah, they were the shit. They had MuscleMedia 2000. Yeah, I mean, he was a legend, bro. He was doing all this stuff with the Denver Broncos. I mean, marketing wise, the guy was an absolute machine. Yeah, the 12-week transformation, all those things. I grew up, I mean, dude, I asked for creatine for christmas when i was 15 i mean i'm a fucking meathead bro

like totally so it was on for christmas creatine for christmas because remember it was like 80 bucks at gnc when it first came out mark well but you and and at that time once you read an article from bill philips once you read muscle media 2000 you could no longer train without it the content you were like i can't were like, I can't, you're like, I can't lift without this. This sounds too good. That's what Bill did amazing was, and I learned from him being like,

and I used to think about this, especially with social media that I still kind of take this way. It's like, if Bill Phillips would have tweeted me and said, dude, take phosphagen like this, I would have done it like that the rest of my life, right? And that's really like where- Yeah, like the loading phase.

Yeah, that's really where my kind of idea came from social media. And what was interesting about working with John was we were able to get in front of so many people with that brand creatively through the UFC that John had really just owned at that point in time. Yeah, I mean, real quick, when I think about Bill Phillips,ips all i can say is you

know i think we're all in the gym at that point you know we're all younger but he took supplements which was you know uh a niche thing for power lifters and bodybuilders maybe it was almost weird to people right yeah no it was and he made. Is that steroids? Like, people don't know, right? Right, yeah. It was a topic of discussion in high schools all of a sudden, and you were cool if you had V2G or creatine.

Oh, yeah, vanadol sulfate. Yeah, exactly. HMB has got the same. He made HMB amazing. HMB has got the same, like, effect as deca, decaderabla in there, like, which is a steroid. And he connected it. And he took a truckload of it, amazing. HMB has got the same effect as Deca, Deca de Roblo. And they're like, what's this steroid? And he connected it.

And he took a truckload of it, maybe. He connected it with athletes. So if you look at his branding scheme, his marketing strategy, it was brilliant. And I think it laid a foundation for all the companies to come after it. I think it was absolutely brilliant. EAS will never be forgotten. And the way they connect with athletes was genius. Yeah, it was cool.

Well, and he made his initial entrance into a lot of stuff from being with like Metrex or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah. He was one of the main guys at Metrex originally. Dr. Scott Connelly. Yeah, and so what's cool about Bill's story is he kind of did, you know, he had like two major runs. He had a run with Metrix and he had to run with EAS. And I kind of look at-

Myoplex was kind of a slap in the direct to customer model, like because of the dollar shave clubs of the world and this, our stuff's changed and retail's changed, Mark. So it's like, we're right in the marketplace with a unique brand and that customer interaction and the way we do content. Like, dude, I'm challenged every day and it's so fun. Yeah. And it's just, it is really completely different. And I think like one day as John and I are starting to do more business talks, we're getting ready to do some university stuff. It's like we can talk like retail and we can talk direct to customer. And a lot of people that are in business, like that's really interesting to them, you know?

Right. Yeah. You know, supplements, they play into the psyche of beliefs. You know, I'm a person that has been training for a long time. And so I would like to think that you're not going to get one over on me, you know, like when it comes to that kind of stuff, but supplements, they still play into the psyche and they've done it over the years. People have done a great job of marketing, uh, recovery and, and all these various things.

And what ends up kind of happening is you end up with a lot of companies that are, uh, kind of selling a little bit of a dream to you in some way, right? You know, they're kind of, and, but the thing that I think that's still healthy about it. And one of the reasons why it's still great is because when somebody takes a supplement, a lot of times they're going to treat themselves better. A lot of times they're going to take care of themselves better. And so the value of that supplement, what that amino acid might be doing or that pre-workout might be doing, it's like, oh, hopefully it charges you up for your workout. And it, there's a lot of information that shows it can help you recover from your workout. Is it going to make you 25% better? We can't guarantee that, but we know that it can help, Yeah. But it's selling the belief of, hey, take care of yourself.

And then when people are investing, people want to invest money in themselves. Absolutely. And that's why the supplement companies are able to make so much money is that people want to invest in their health. They want to put money forward. They want to say, hey, see, like I'm making an effort to do this. I'm part of this fitness. I'm part of this fitness industry. Yeah.

I think there's two type of supplement consumers, at least from what I've experienced. And that's the kind that knows supplements, has been around supplements, takes them and knows that whatever brand it is, it can help them. Some ingredients are going to be better than others. Some blends are going to be better than others. And some companies operate with more integrity. And then there's the consumer that truly believes the before and after, if you will, right? The before and after of on cycle, off cycle.

So I think as a supplement company, when we're communicating directly to consumer, you have to speak with a level of honesty. Like, listen, for us, the ability to go direct to consumer means we don't have to give away a large portion of our money to retailers like GNC, Vitamin Shop, and Bodybuilding.com. But should we just pocket that money? No, we want to give that money to our consumers so if you buy a large amount or a basic amount of supplements from us we give you an extra shirt we give you an extra shake these are things that people spend 25 30 40 bucks for

we just gave away a sweatshirt so as opposed to giving it to gnc and hoping that they don't send back half of our shit. Or try to flip them to their brand like they fucking do. Right, we give you this, we give you that. And then all of a sudden you feel part of something. It's a different culture. It's like completely different. And going back to what I've always led with supplements

is that it's, you do, you're asking, like I'm asking my body to do something that an average person isn't doing, Mark. Average people aren't lunging 10 minutes like we just did. So don't we need something else rather than Joe Schmo that doesn't fucking get out of his office chair? It would make sense. Absolutely.

Makes sense, you need a little extra, right? Yeah, absolutely. And so when I talked to Arnold even about this, he's like, look, taking supplements doesn't make you a bodybuilding champion. He goes, but you're asking your body to do something completely different. And so it does need something else. And so we'll always leading with a practical application was my whole jam, which I learned from Bill Phillips. I mean, it's also part of a regimen. I'm going to

take this and I'm going to work out at this time and I'm going to do things this way. And along with that comes a lifestyle and a diet and a, you know, we don't all start out that way. That's, you don't just wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden you're like full on in fitness, you know, taking supplements and doing the whole thing right away. It's a progression. It takes some time. I've been, I've been a huge proponent of supplements since I can remember.

I mean, I started lifting at around 11, 12 years old, just very, you know, just kind of messing around. My brothers got me into it. And then as I got older, I started to get more and more serious about it, but supplements were always there. They were always part of it. Same here. Phosphogen, phosphagems, HMB, vanadyl sulfate, like all those things. I was, you know, taking all those different things. We're all products of early EAS. Isn't that funny? like all those things.

I was, you know, taking all those different things. We're all products of early EAS. Ain't that funny? Yeah. And even the original Metrex, the original Metrex bars go back to the steel bars, which only had like 15 grams of protein,

but 58 grams of sugar. I remember reading that on the back and I was like, I'm like, is this like a world record that they're trying to set? They're trying to set with how many grams? It's amazing how it's changed

over that amount of time. Right. Just like the quality and the taste and that, you know, that soccer moms want to eat a lot of people will say that you you can't get big and you can't get in shape uh if you're you know that people are more proponent of food especially nowadays hear people saying you got to just your supplement is your food and i agree with that to some extent but i'm somebody i'm 245 pounds and I'm in good shape and I've been able to sustain muscle mass for a long time. You're jacked. And I've been able to maintain this in the way, a big way that

I've been able to maintain this is through the usage of supplements. I mean, obviously people know my story from bigger, stronger, faster. You have your own stance, your own way of doing things, but it's been a huge part of my life and i've had protein shakes for the last uh 15 20 years nearly nearly every day yeah for a very long time if you look at that i mean the definition definition of the word alone supplement means you're kind of supplementing food right because we all have busy schedules we're working we don't know where we're going to be in 20 minutes are we with the kids at soccer you don't know but supplements can provide a consistent source of nutrition for people who live real lives we all can't cook three to five meals a day john can't cook one meal i can't i can make cereal okay The bachelor to the fullest. Do you use a lot of milk?

A little extra milk. I can't tell you the ratio, but yes. Well, like my wife and kids, they like drown the cereal in their milk. Of course. You can't even see the cereal anymore. I'm not going to lie. I love Lucky Charms. And I only use a little bit of milk.

And my boy, Jesse Burdick, we had a discussion about this last time he was on the podcast he only used a little bit do you drown it in in time same here yeah you get that extra yeah yeah okay yeah i used to be like the guy that would eat a whole box of lucky charms and drown it like in a half a gallon yeah and fucking loved it get that get that extra protein in there With whatever's in the wheat part that, you know, I just want to eat mostly the marshmallows, but I've mixed up protein shakes cause I, I'm like lactose intolerant.

So I've mixed up protein shakes before and ate cereal with it. Like it's like greatest pre-workout meal of all time. Yes. Fat, those fast acting carbs, you know, before you, uh,

before you hit the gym, whatever they're making that stuff out of. Yeah. I know. I know. Cereal is, gym. Whatever they're making that stuff out of. Yeah, I know. I know cereal is strange. Like rats won't even eat it. It's so bad for you, dude. It's insane.

But we feed it to our kids all day. We're like, here, try this. It's unbelievable that became part of the culture that you're supposed to eat high sugar, wheat, whatever prior, like for breakfast. They fucked us, man. Bad, dude. Real bad. And now we're screwed.

We can't get out of it. It's bad. And you think about that. That's like, you know,, dude. Real bad. And now we're screwed. We can't get out of it. It's bad. And you think about that, that's like, you know, just the status quo of what everybody thinks they should do. We're so messed up

that people will talk other people out of exercise. They'll talk other people out of doing something healthy. Oh, don't buy it. Why are you buying a protein shake? That's because it's bad

for your kidneys. They're bad for your liver. It's like, wait, what? Yeah. I'm always like, what about the, like I used to, I had this client one time.

But you're rolling through In-N-Out Burger. But frozen yogurt has no fat in it. Yeah. It has 35 grams of sugar. Or like, like I had clients that would come to the gym and they would eat like two honey buns from the fucking gas station. And I'm like, dude, like, did you not look at the back of that? Like it, it is amazing.

And like, let's put this way. This is part of their day. We're never going to be, you know, out of business. I mean, just from a standpoint of like being in the fitness, because it's just so needed, you know, so needed. Now you got me thinking about those honey buns. They taste good. I'd love to get your take as obviously a huge fitness professional,

knowing everything about supplements. The branding in supplementation right now, the consistency of the doctor in a lab coat that we all know is not a fucking doctor. And I call them, all the brands look like neon science projects, right? Right. So what we try to do is we try to literally create a brand with an identity that's totally different, right? This dude looked like he's from the 20s. He looks like he just got here from Ellis Island. He's a jacked, like old school circus.

Yeah, exactly. Right. So does that affect, and then obviously we don't look at ourselves as a supplement company. We look at ourselves as a brand. And I mean, we moved over 50,000 t-shirts last year. Does that affect at all someone like you who knows supplements and knows the game to the fullest? Does a brand versus the guys who fake it in lab coats, would that sway your buying decision at all or no?

Yeah, all of it does. What I find interesting though, are the tactics that are utilized by supplement companies because they don't, maybe just because I've been in it for so long, they don't really make a lot of sense to me. When I see an ad and it's got a jacked bodybuilder on it and says, you're going to have vein bursting pumps, I'm like, I don't want my veins to, I mean, you know, like I've been in the most hardcore gyms in the world and I still don't want my veins to burst out of my body. Sure. So I look at some of that stuff sometimes and I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me. But we are all victims to being advertised to, you know, and it's happening all the time. And whether we realize it on a more like subliminal level or if it's like just directly flat out in your face. I mean, you think about all the different, you know, when I, when I go to take a shower in the morning and I'm in there and I'm like,

just trying to find, yeah, it could get weird. My 10 minute walks. Well, there's a 10 minute something else, right? When I go to like, look for,

you know, just like simple body wash or something in there. You know, my wife's got like this cell volumizing fucking conditioner for her hair of course and it's i don't even know what's soap and what's shampoo who made up all these terms cell volumizing like what is that but that's used in supplements of course it's used with like creatine and i think and my point is is that you sometimes just you keep hearing these words over and over again and you're, I need that product because it says this on it.

I'm looking for the one that's going to volumize my hair. And you're like, what the fuck does that mean? How is that a thing? You know, but like all the way to the point where someone won't buy another brand. Right. Yeah. So the brand plays a huge factor into it. Well, I think the other thing too is just leading with, hey, I mean, how many revolutionizing

stuff is in the supplement world's going on at this point? Like there's some new ingredients, but at the end of the day, it's like quality tastes good mixes, right. Price point, cool brand culture. Yeah. And, and, and you're going to buy it anyway. So you're going to feel part of something, you know, it's going to taste good. You know, it's going to make like those like intangibles for me were really important as we were putting this together. Like, we're not going to let a product out if it doesn't taste like it's amazing. Some of the ways someone's shit tastes on the market, bro. I was blown. I'm like, how did you let this out of the lab? Like, so it's like, really,

it's like just about putting your quality foot forward. Let it out. Cause it was cheap. Yeah. That might be true too. So I think the other thing that happens happens too is a lot of times it's not even a fitness person. It's not even a fitness-oriented person because the company gets large and maybe they made money from real estate or whatever. And they don't really care. It's just another company for them, which is a different business, right? I think that was a big part of it too is that when I was telling John, when we do this, that's so important because, so important because of being a practitioner and him being a practitioner, like we got to both be like, yeah, this is a fucking killer. Like now we'll release it. Not like, Oh, it's okay. Like I'll, I'll go through now. I went through like nine or 10 times to get the base lemonade, right?

Just right. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm a, I try to be kind of a perfectionist on that. If I can be, I mean, that's kind of, is Corey more of the idea guy when it comes to the actual supplements itself? When it comes to the supplements, absolutely. Corey's the best at it. And when he puts stuff together and the samples come to me, I'm always blown away with the work he's done. And I try to focus on the brand, the brand development and the branding. So right away. And the clothing too. Right away, your mind starts to wander into where does this fit in the overall picture?

How are we going to market this? And then from that standpoint, what do you do with a product that he has and you guys test and then it's ready? So here's what we do. So we just released the Max Crispy Treat, which is our alternative. That sounded delicious when you guys were describing it. Yeah, I need to send you a box, bro. I should have brought them with me.

It's like a Rice Crispy Treat type of celery. So good. Yeah. And he puts it together and I'm sitting there, I'm looking at like this old 1920s bottle of bourbon that's in this tube that's wrapped beautifully with gold foil stamping i'm like fuck the fucking yeah oh yeah fuck fuck the box let's put this out in a tube that comes that looks old school like this dude from the 1920s yeah and looks like it's from that era. So great bar, great packaging in our company.

Like right now, every delivery comes to you in a screen printed burlap sack to represent this era, again, complimenting great products. And something different because you got to figure like everybody just gets a box. So we didn't tell anybody it came in a burlap sack. We pre-sold like a thousand orders. And then all of a sudden they start delivering in these burlap sacks. And dude, what do you think they do? Write to social media. Holy shit.

Like, like it's, they feel like they feel different when they walk up on their doorstep, Mark. And it's there literally cinched up. It's pretty cool, dude. I think we need some max effort sack races. Dude, we've done that. We did it at the Arnold last year. Oh, you did?

Absolutely. That's the funniest looking thing ever. It's pretty classic. You know, and it's like, it's funny because, I mean, the jokes are limitless with the hashtag what's in your sack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, there's like- And we're here in sack.

Oh, in sack town, right? So like, I get so many snaps of like, there's like a, you know, a male person carrying it across the street. Like that, that dude's got my sack or, you know, it's limitless. So it makes it across the street like that that dude's got my sack or you know it's limitless so it makes it really fun man so it's cool uh it's cool you're having fun with it oh yeah no so much fun man it's like and the industry is is a blast and you know john wasn't in the actual supplement industry had been around sports forever and him being a consumer like bringing uh him into this thing like and us working together on it like you know it's been exciting to kind of like get him involved in truly, like, and us working together on it, like, you know,

it's been exciting to kind of like get him involved in truly supplements. Cause he was helping with the marketing and all that stuff at MP, but being a partner, it's been blast. So working with a UFC has got to be really, really interesting. I mean, number one, you know, I've had fighters on the show and they always, they always claim that they're not crazy, but I don't give a fuck what they say. You punch somebody in the face and you enjoy being punched in the face and you're out of your fucking mind. So that's got to be a little tough to deal with these personalities. They got to be big, strong personalities, I would imagine. The other side of it that really interests me is I know the fight fans have changed over the years because UFC has grown so much.

But what does that fight fan look like? You know, does he look like a dude that's rolling through Walmart or does he look like a guy that cares about his body? Yeah. So two things to answer you directly. One, I would disagree with you a little bit because what I've found is, yes, of course, there's some crazy dudes out there. Yes, of course, there's some crazy dudes out there. But because as a man, when you know that you can handle yourself against 99.99999% of all the males in the world, your ego comes down naturally and you're not defensive. So a lot of them are stunning because, man, there's just, there's nothing to defend. They already know they're tough, right?

Yeah, so that ego is at a lower level. And the second question was, what was the second question? The second question is basically like, what is the UFC, or just fight fans, what do they look like? Are they going to be people that are obsessed with Max Evers? Walmart, for sure and and i would just say because you know the ufc um sold for 4.2 billion dollars that was the largest sale of any sports franchise ever so it's a sports franchise just like your nba fans your nfl fans you know

the majority of fans not practitioners um aren, aren't the fittest. So yeah, they look more like fans and less like practitioners. Very different than like CrossFit, which is all practitioners, or even our industry, which most guys are practitioners. And that sport, when you market to them, it's very different. They're not fighters. Yeah, and it can be a good idea in a lot of ways because when i think of a show like ultimate fighter i've had so many females tell me that they love that show and they and they like watching it because the guys it's it's a show with a bunch of guy talk

right yeah and the guys look good the guys are jacked and stuff and then i can kind of envision you know they're watching you know a guy and girl watching it it together and the guy's inspired to get in better shape. It changed everything for the UFC, I think. Because the wife or girlfriend's like, hey, it'd be good if you got on the couch and fucking hit up a training session. And these are 2016 numbers, but at the end of 2016, the UFC did a study that 56% of their fans were male. That means 44% of their fan base is female.

And I think a lot of- The NFL probably doesn't have anything like that. Hell no. Hell no. It's probably 85, right? 80% men? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

It's a mix of those women can swallow seeing that action and they like to see fit guys. It's just how it is well the ufc did a great job uh branding itself and uh kind of like somewhat taking the fight out of fighting like they they did it in a classy way without uh without bastardizing the sport and without it having be be a different sport it's still fighting know, but they did some things to keep it clean, keep the look of it sleek and it's a competition.

Yep, absolutely. And I think that once you watch it after a while, yes, there are occasions where somebody gets an eating ahead

too many times and there's some things that happen where even the most hardcore fan will go, oh man, I kind of wish I didn't see that.

Look away. Yeah, I don't think any of us really love seeing that, but it does happen. It is part of the sport, but I think they did a great job of showing you that it's a competition. Absolutely. And if you look at their business model, and I believe this is why they had a sale so large,

it was, we have to spend our time. And this is starting in 05 through last year when they sold it, making people buy a pay-per-view because it says UFC, not because it says Jones versus Cormier. And if you look at the bars and people, oh yeah, you're going to go out and watch the UFC tonight? It's not like, oh, I'm going to go out and watch Floyd Mayweather versus Chavez Jr. It's, I'm going to go watch the UFC tonight.

Connor's kind of returned UFC tonight a little bit though don't you think but but Conor is a Conor and Ronda who is our partner in Max Effer Muscle

and we're very brought up but Conor and Ronda they're supernovas outside of them the sports like Chuck Liddell would be the closest thing the sports never seen

anything like that yeah Chuck Liddell I know right Chuck Liddell that's where it all started i mean you know what like just throwing bombs dude the baseball yeah yeah just the baddest dude on the planet you know i always uh i always respected him so much i mean obviously like he's just fighting in the ring was just insane but i always kind of liked watching you saw uh tito

ortiz was always trying to like market himself. He was a great fighter in his own right as well, but he took a different route. And Chuck Liddell was like, you know what? I'm just going to sit in this pocket and I'm just going to throw bombs at whoever they put in front of me. And I'm going to knock people out. And he ended up making way more money than Tito. Yeah. And he didn't fight him.

Absolutely. What people don't understand about Chuck is Chuck was a supreme wrestler, but the beautiful thing about MMA is you can use your skillset how you want it. So he used wrestling in reverse to keep you on your feet. Right. So you get hit with those sandbags. So that's what a lot of people don't know about Chuck. He was,

he's an amazing wrestler. Yeah. People couldn't take him down. No, I remember like that was the main thing. He would sprawl and sprawl and sprawl. And they just knock you the fuck out. And you're like,

I got to stand with you. Yeah. And he would catch you with a and sprawl. And then just knock you the fuck out. And then you're like, I got to stand with you shit. Yeah. And he would catch you with a bomb. Yeah. Have either one of you guys ever participated? You ever done some MMA? You ever done a jujitsu or boxing or anything? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I've done jujitsu, Muay Thai, boxing. I've done like two smokers, which I refer to as like, kind of like amateur under,

underground. Shit's fucking hard. It's unbelievable. And you gas so quick. All the conditioning is just off the charts yeah i used i went to a boxing gym for like two months when i was like 17 and just learned the basics but that's about mine i roll there's some guys that uh did jiu-jitsu at the gym i rolled around but nothing that crazy throw like 15 punches and you're smoked bro it's a whole different

it's a whole different animal yeah and then how explosive they are absolutely that that's the one thing that people don't understand i always see when guys who hit the heavy bag is when you're trying to hit a human being and you're live, they move. Yeah, the heavy bag doesn't hit you the fuck back. I look awesome on the heavy bag. How do you close the distance, right? That is the whole trick to, let's say, the beginner level of fighting is closing the distance because when you close

it, you're also in danger too. So you better make your move and you got to, you gotta be decisive. It's, it's insane. Yeah. You've been doing more boxing stuff, Mark. I've been seeing some of your videos. I love it. I've had, uh, my buddy Nico come in here and work with me a little bit. I'd like to try to, uh, take that a little bit further, but I'm just, you know, kind of working my way into it. I'd like to mess around with some jujitsu, no plans to fight or anything. I just want to, uh, as you were mentioning earlier, like being able to defend yourself that way,

it, it, uh, makes you feel a certain way, you know? And so like I got nothing to prove as a man. Yeah. And I,

I kind of always feel that way, you know, lifting has given that to me. Sure. Um, when we're training in the gym, if I'm working out, somebody,

I have no problem, like just using a plate, you know, and someone else might be stacking on three or four plates, even though, I mean, I guess because I've, I've done it, you know, I've lifted heavy shit before and, uh, I can just say, Hey, you know, just refer to some of the meats that I did. Yeah. Yeah.

Check it out. You want to know me? Hey, you want to, you want to see me, uh, busting ass. So I think that, uh, you know, lifting and exercise and MMA and all these things, they do so much more for us. And that's what we get addicted to. Sure. Sure. When you're boxing, just a quick question for you, because you're a huge guy, is it hard? I mean, is your focus always thinking, okay, how do I put less on my stuff, use more technique so I don't gasp? Because obviously

you need more red blood cells. 250 pounds of muscle. I mean, tell me about it. How's that? It's really tough because even when I'm just working on a drill, even that'll blow me up. And then if I'm trying to be more explosive or fast, that'll blow me. So it's like, at this point, it's like anything kind of takes me to that next level, but I do have to stop myself. I do have to concentrate on breathing. Um, just like when I take someone through a deadlift or a squat, they have to, uh, get verbal cues as they're going. And I need to kind of reinforce cues for myself when I'm, when I'm throwing punches and just, you know, learning little tricks that,

um, you know, for somebody that's been doing it for a long time, it probably, uh, they probably don't think about it anymore, but just, just having a strong step when you go to throw a punch and trying to snap them has been the hardest part for me because, uh, in, in, in lifting, it's so much different. We're not trying to make our arms long. We're trying to make our arms short, you know, we bench press, we're pulling our chest up and we're getting the shoulder blade locked into such a in such a spot that we couldn't possibly throw anything out we couldn't right you got to be loose yeah we couldn't tweak an elbow or it couldn't tweak a shoulder but in this case now we're just trying to throw a jab and really snap it out there kind of ali style is it man you know where you're like snapping or whipping like a towel right sure and i don't have that kind of same whip

it's more like a shove or a push so it's going to take me a while but i'm excited because i like the challenge do you think it comes from your feet because obviously absolutely you got to be on your toes when you're fighting and when you're lifting you got more of that base on absolutely absolutely it all comes from your legs and your hips and being able to kind of rotate them and move them properly that's actually a huge part of it is just my mobility has been pretty poor for quite some time. So, and then also the way that I learned how to box years ago, I went to Kevin Rooney, who's Mike Tyson's former trainer, and that was more of a squared up style.

And so, because I already have that previous history and I'm not mobile, well, now I'm trying to turn and fight like more traditional, almost like a Diaz or something like that. And just even turning my body. Amateur boxing stance where you're kind of like that. Absolutely. Yeah. Even just trying to turn my body like away from somebody a little bit is

making it more difficult. Tell me your Diaz story. He'll fucking love it. Oh, I love the Diaz. There we go. This is a great one you're gonna love it so uh i managed nick diaz when he fought carlos condit for the interim uh welterweight title

and after the weigh-in you know uh all the fighters stay in the same hotel so we were staying in mandalay bay and me and the diaz crew and including nate and js, are going back up to Nick's room after the weigh-in. And Condit's walking this way, okay? And the whole Diaz crew, 40 deep stock in 209, you know how it goes, is going the other way. And Nate throws his arms up, and these other guys go after Condit. And Condit's like, really?

In the casino? And they're like, yeah, come on, on motherfucker they don't give a fuck bro and basically carlos got away from him right and then we get up in the room and nick's like why'd you let that motherfucker go that motherfucker was right there why'd you let him go and uh and and that kind of faded right so we had we had done a deal to uh through his coach to uh I became his manager over the phone. We signed paperwork. It was the first time I met Nick. So he sits down in this chair in his suite and he grabs a watermelon and he looks at me and he goes, are you John? I said, yeah, I'm John. Nice to meet you. He goes, I'm Nick. Nice nice to meet you he does one rotation in the chair

i swear to god one rotation in the chair takes the watermelon and busts it on the table as hard as he as hard as he fucking could and he was like why the fuck didn't we get conned you get the fuck out of here and i was like nice to meet you like literally literally i've never seen a human being go jacklin eyed like that and every element of that story was true my old partner witnessed it and i was like holy fuck this dude this dude's for real like this watermelon dude was not his all his whole posse they had watermelon all over their face. It was amazing. Why does Nick Diaz have a watermelon in his room?

Why would he go grab a watermelon before he talked to me? So random, bro. That's fucking nuts. I mean, it must have been really difficult working with a lot of these guys, right? The tough ones, yes. So a guy like Nick, yes, one of the worst, and I fired him because I almost got in a fight with him, was Dominic Cruz. Dominic Cruz is the biggest asshole I've ever met in my life. And he's a great fighter. He's a great fighter. An amazing fighter. One of the best in his weight class. And Tiago Silva, if you know who Tiago Silva is he walks about scary about 245 and uh apparently he claimed I I didn't tell him I got uh him an extra sponsor which means more money not less for him and he was low on carbs and he cuts about 40 pounds and he went nose to nose with me and he literally was going to knock me out and his coach like grabbed him and I was

like man man we got an extra 7,500 bucks he's like but you didn't tell me man and so tiago grew up you know in the favela and tents on the side of the street but yeah it was challenging with some people and um uh you get you get a little bit scared sometimes it'd be really tough to like uh get certain fights and stuff too because it's not like just uh you can't just like grab you know these opportunities they don't just happen right i mean john had to negotiate with the ufc for a lot of these guys yeah i'm saying like uh they ufc has their own framework of how they operate and stuff right and so they're they're a good old boys club and uh luckily i i got in early in about 06 clay guida was my first client. Clay Guida's still fighting. He's got about a 13-year tenure.

Who doesn't like Clay Guida? Everybody loves Clay Guida, bro. He's the best, man. He is the best. The guy can absorb some shots, man. He's a bad motherfucker, bro. Holy crap. And literally the best to hang out with.

So down to earth, and he represents the Carpenters Union. He still pays his dues in the Carpenters Union just because. Yeah. Yeah. So like our guest here, Jesus Christ,

he was a carpenter. He's excited. Yeah. And for some reason he's belted to John's mic. Yeah. Yeah. Guida's like fam,

basically. I mean, him and John have been doing business for a long time. We started working with him in like 2000, what,

nine or 10. Yeah. I mean, I've been- I think he was the second guy MusclePharm sponsored after Bisping. How have you guys been able to get close to a lot of these people like that? How do you get in a position

to manage some of these people? How do you get in front of Tiger Woods? How do you get in front of Arnold? How do you get in front of somebody? How has that happened? Very good strategy. Yeah. Right, Johnny?

Yeah. I mean, I think for me and Corey, it would probably be different, but just speaking from my position, man, I was selling t-shirts and lucky. I was lucky enough to hit an industry that didn't exist. So my business grew pretty quick. And when I was able to sponsor these UFC guys, I paid them on time i answered phone calls and then all of a sudden was clay was like hey would you manage me and then alan belcher's like would you manage me and then they started referring me and referring me and referring me so it was just done through like dude i was selling t-shirts i'm not a fucking lawyer

but i i have become an entrepreneur from there yeah and you know. And I've sold probably seven businesses since then. So for me, it was just treating people well. And that's kind of the backbone of how I like to do everything and keep an open mind. But I know Corey- For me, it was like networking through relationships that if somebody was on my radar and I knew so-and-so knew them or whatever, it was always like, I always tried to relate from the personal level and let whoever that person was know about my story. Because I thought if they could relate with,

you know, I want to give this guy or company a shot. Rhonda was more of John's contact of how we got hooked up with Travis Brown, as we know him as one of our partners. These other guys, when I got in front of Tiger, I got in front of Arnold, like, I let them know as fast as possible about the backstory. Hey, I'm thankful to be here. I have a lot of gratitude to be in this industry. This is where I come from. And by the way, but

I'm not nervous to interview you today. I'm excited. I'm an athlete. This is what I do. I'm striving to be better every day as well. When I met with Tiger, he asked me, he had done some Google search and he was asking about how my weight fluctuates from powerlifting and bodybuilding and the lifts I did. And he was like, it was wild, bro. And so it's like an Arnold kind of the same way over time. So like having like general conversation one-on-one with somebody like that, that had mutual respect was all unbelievable, Mark. And, but, but I really tried to, I think I set the tone on that. I live it that I appreciate the opportunity and that I'm not scared to, you know, try to help them or show them that I know what I can do, you know, with their brands or their likeness or whatever. And so I think that's

the key is you're not pissing down your leg on top of it. Although I'm a little scared to run it sometimes pretty tough. Who moved the needle the most, uh, you know, in, you know, just kind of thinking back to some of the numbers and stuff. Like when you signed with somebody, like, was it just like, bam, just something went crazy. I think, you know, obviously Rhonda's line's not out yet, so I can't really speak on that. But she moves the needle on anything she ever posts. I mean, it's obviously massive. She's got a crazy phone.

Dude, massive. And so, I mean, it was Arnold because look, at the end of the day, he, me and you both know, he's the best that's ever lived in the sport. He helped create the industry. But I've never had a female that's had this much power to run. So I believe it'll be about the same. So I'm excited that, you know, we'll, we're going to launch it at the Arnold. So we'll see. How did some of this happen with Ronda Rousey? So, so my client, Travis Brown, who was ranked number three in the world as a heavyweight is great fighter he he married ronda he was dating ronda i i met uh her through him and essentially she just saw because travis is a minority owner in max effort muscle she saw the growth she saw the

uniqueness and the brand and we were just shooting the shit one day and she's like i don't know what post-workout is and i was just try some of this shit and she's like this this is amazing like you you guys are doing stuff differently you don't you know she goes i get offered a million and a half two million dollars from all these different supplement companies she's like if you guys do a a women's line can i um be a part of it i was like i, I like wanted to turn around and be like 20, like jumping back. Yeah, motherfucker. But we're like, absolutely. And she is an equity partner who has just as much skin in the game as anyone else. Her ideas are just as involved. And we all work as a team. We get on calls. She gets on calls. She throws out ideas. I mean, it's really awesome because when someone like that is going to invest her time and her time is obviously worth so much money in making this better, it's only going to make everything we do broader and people of a larger audience are going to see it.

So it's exciting. It's not an endorsement contract. She's a partner. She wants to be on the conference call. She wants to give her ideas. She wants to give her, I mean, it's,

it's a different ballgame. She had exact skews that she wanted to create and do better. So like working on her with the products and that type of stuff. And, and yeah, and like she did a giveaway on her Instagram the other day for Max crispy treats and 10,000 people tag three people. I mean,

it's like the powers and numbers, man. It's unbelievable. And it's like this, she won't do any, anything, but the things, uh, she will do the things that she does do. She wins at like, so when you, when you're a winner at that level, it's interesting to see how they, how they operate because she only does things that she knows she's going to crush it on, like this giveaway, and then boom, 4 million views. Boom, we get 10,000 organic. She is so competitive. So if an idea isn't foolproof to her, she kind of backs off it. But when she goes in, she just destroys it. Just like, you know, her career.

And it's interesting to see someone who has a mindset like that operate like that outside of where you're used to seeing her operate. It's fun to learn that too from her, Mark, just see the way she, because you just know she was so great, like literally Tyson-esque, right? At her sport at that point in time. So it's like being around somebody like that, just like these other names we other names we threw around like dude I feel blessed to even just be around and like witness and learn but we're teaching her things too I think because we've been doing business like this type of business longer so it's cool you guys had the opportunity to see her train oh I she she slammed the shit out of me in judo man and that shit hurts that shit hurts but she um she only knows one speed so even when she

was fighting like hey let's slow it down no no it doesn't work no yeah so she she would come after guys in the gym with mma gloves on and she would knock guys out and she's like where's the next one i mean she only knows how to kill and then then you have to like say, stop, turn the switch off. And then she does, but she only knows one speed. She's going on the Sports Hall of Fame for judo at the Arnold Classic. So she'll be with us at the Arnold Classic, but they're doing a big ceremony for her to be, because she was a silver medalist in judo, right, Johnny?

Bronze. Bronze medal, yeah. Does she have a desire to be in the fitness community like do you guys know i mean is that something like uh you know she has a desire to spread i think fitness to females and just be just continue to be like a person that they look up to she's all these little girls and the lifestyle of it you know she's gonna be i mean obviously she's been in the gym training for years but she takes care of herself it's important to her she's she's what i like about it and i'm similar in this regard like it has to be dead on mark or

she's just not going to get behind it right i mean it just there's no like we're not getting anything by ronda rousey you know i mean like she's very detail oriented on what she wants to put out and get behind and so to me i respect that like that's what i want that's what john wants and so it's cool man i mean we're dude to say that we've been able to work with somebody at this level and be a partner it's it's pretty well and she's doing a transformation she you know that for someone like her who's in movies who's willing to say here's my body now i'm gonna take a bunch of supplements and work out hard and here's my body in 90 days i mean man, man, that's risky for your career, right? Yeah.

And she's all in like that. That's cool. Yeah, it feels good to have that kind of participation. You guys have had this company for how many years now? It's only like 15 months, Sean, is that what it is? Oh, okay. 15 months. Yeah, roughly, 14, 15 months.

I mean, it's still a baby. And I'm just going to say this, and we have generated more net revenue than MusclePharm has in their history. Fact. Boom. No comment. So were both you guys employed by MusclePharm? John was a contractor, and I was a co-founder slash employee. But I was a share a contractor and i was a co-founder but i was a

shareholder and i paid the price what uh what what do you what do you guys think happened because there's a lot of companies that get real big um everybody you know on instagram and all the people that are uh i'm gonna be dancing but keep going yeah well i mean you can answer it in a general way or whatever but uh everybody's striving to be quote way Or whatever but Everybody's striving to be quote unquote Great everyone's striving to be A millionaire everyone's striving to Put up points on the scoreboard and to turn Their company into a monster

Turn it into a machine and I think That a lot of people you know maybe they Don't even know what they're getting themselves into Maybe they have to kind of think their strategy through A little bit better because They could get into something that can break you. It can break up your life. It can break up your marriage.

It can really hurt and affect things in a negative way. Here you are thinking you're doing everything positive. Like we're going to drive this fucking thing and we're going to do $200 million or whatever the number is. Sure. And we're going to have this great thing. Things can happen too fast sometimes, Mark. And I think you said this when we were talking about

scaling your businesses never jumped so fast that it was a problem, right? You were able to scale it over these last seven or eight years. I think, you know, if there's not enough checks and balances, there's too many people, you know, saying this and that you had a board of directors of people that don't really understand the industry. You know, I come from like a really like customer service product based way to do things. I'm not a Wall Street guy. I'm not a board of directors guy. I'm not really even like I can be an executive, but it's not even really what I look forward to. Yeah.

It's like, oh, we have to have a board meeting about that. Like, why can't I just fucking talk to John? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we can, which is what I love. Exactly. So I think that there was a lot of moving parts and it was going real fast. And I'd like to say like, look, it had some great things. There were some things that we crushed, but there was a lot of holes in, as we grew that there were spots like operations and things that

needed to be better. And I wasn't really in charge of a lot of that stuff. I was more on the customer side. So, you know, but on the hindsight, if I wouldn't have went through that, this wouldn't be what it's going to be. So it's all you, you, you wish this could have happened different to that. But honestly, the adversity that I faced to have to get up one day and go, I started this thing. I stood by Arnold, but it's not for me anymore. That was, that was a realization because it wasn't what I started. It changed. And, but it's not for me anymore. That was a realization because it wasn't what I started, it changed. But I got up and said, you know what? It's just time. I mean, some things run their course over time and I didn't want it anymore. And so that was like a little bit of

a tricky thing to do. But for me, it was like, when I get a chance to do this again, I'm going to do it much different, which is what I've been able to do. So I'll give it some plain speak from a shareholder's perspective. And I want to say this first, Corey was the backbone of that company. Corey created a customer base and Corey created a personal brand because what he was putting out through the company was authentic. Well, and he was the one communicating with everybody too because he was who I was in contact with. And as I mentioned on a previous show that we did, just he and I together, I pointed out that he was like the first company, the first guy to believe in me. No one else was.

Except Mark's stuff. No one else was knocking on my door at that time. So saying that Corey created such a following and a name for himself because he was doing things the right way. Outside of that, it's like this. Anybody can keep raising money. And if me and you wanted to start a company today and we had 20 million bucks and we wanted to get Tiger Woods' golf bag, we could. It's just a price tag. So is there a lot of strategy in that or is that a lot of shareholder money that's being wasted? So me and Corey talk about this all the time.

And again, I'm speaking for myself. There's a top line game in business and there's a bottom line game in business. And again, I'm speaking for myself. There's a top line game in business and there's a bottom line game in business. I'm a believer in that top line is like driving a Lamborghini that you're making payments on. Bottom line is like the guy who owns the car wash that makes $2 million a year and you don't need to know his name. And he doesn't give a fuck if you know his name. We're playing the bottom line game now with with with with some shine because cory's got a following but you know it's like i i used to call uh i still do call the xco muscle farm

blank check brad um because he just wrote checks so so all the shareholder value was destroyed because there was so much debt so if anyone can look at a public company's balance sheet or a 10K and you could see exactly what happened. They spent too much money. Didn't you guys lease a plane? I know that wasn't your decision, but didn't the company lease a plane? Very short period of time. Yeah.

Yeah. The biggest thing was, is like, I think what I learned- Doing things that were unnecessary. Got it. Which weren't my call to be straight with you so it's like i learned from all those things i look at all that stuff is like you know gary v talks about wins and losses right there's some wins there yeah but there was a lot of losses too but never make that mistake never not have the check and balances that john wanted to go lease a plane i'd be like get the fuck out of here so a big lesson here though too is that uh just because people are purchasing something and just because your stuff's in a store doesn't mean that you're a success at all at all right i mean they

were probably selling the shit out of stuff for a while right like things were probably we ran very i mean very fast in those terms things were like good but there was a lot of uh here's what you gotta know when you play that game, Mark, you got to know when to go, Whoa, Nelly. And we didn't as a group, which I was part of the executive team, they couldn't get together to bring it when it needed it. And there was always push, push, push, push. And it's like, what I love about this whole thing is I believe that the business

that I've been through personally, and now with John, that I can teach to the highest level. I mean, Mark, I'll be able to stand and hopefully in front of Harvard business someday and say, I played the game that sold a half a billion dollars and I made X. And I've played the game that's made $20 million and made X. And everybody would think, here's much better, but it's not. Now, what I got personally out of it was a name in the industry, amazing relationships. Don't get it wrong. Like I benefited from it, but if I didn't come out and do these other things, it really wouldn't have been an ultimate success for me. It's only success because of the body of work total. Yeah. So it's like, it's one of those things where I don't feel, you know, I don't like to

go into detail and do all that and I'm past it now, but it, but it definitely, I mean, it was, it was definitely adverse for me. It's a huge deal in figuring out who you are and what you want, right? And what I want to be around. Yeah. Because I think when we're young and we're starting something, we're not really thinking about those things. And as you move along, you gain more wisdom. It'd be great if we had the wisdom of a 50-year-old when we're 20, but it doesn't fucking work

that way. Right. You get that wisdom through being hurt. Yeah, exactly. Through a lot of pain. Yeah call it battered battered syndrome i had it but i mean john and i almost didn't become partners because we had this long two-day thing where i was like you know he's because he's a single guy that's super aggressive in business and you know i've got a family and i'm coming off that situation and i was like threw that out there for you he's not single anymore he's not single anymore but it's the thing that like, he means

I work till two in the morning, but I'm just trying to tell him like that. I can't do that. I have to go to soccer practice and there's some like, and so, but we got, we came together and had some good boundaries and just freaking murdering it, bro. And it's just, and it's, and it's been a lot of fun, but I know, I just don't think it would ever be this good. If John and I didn't go through what he went through his old business, what I went through in my old business. We're just better. I think the big takeaway for young people is believe it, that companies that make $200 million a year, the owners of those companies could take home far less than a company that makes $2 million a year. That is a fact.

And more times than not, it's true. Yeah. It's, that's so, like from a business teaching. Right. I think it's going to be when this thing's said and done, we run it however many years, sell it, keep it, whatever we do. Being able to like literally show that balance sheet stuff and teach people will be. So I'm excited about it.

I think it's when you guys watch, you guys watch shark tank. Yeah. Of course you're hearing there. Oh yeah. Reminded me of my life too long for too long. Yeah. It's,

it's interesting when you watch the show and then people are like, yeah, I need this amount of money. And I'm always like, Oh my God, like these people, they just, they weren't thinking,

they just like jumped into everything. And now they have all this debt. They have a great idea. It's amazing. It's cool to see that they have this concept and they're passionate about it. But it's like, man, they don't have a business because everything's all fucked up and sideways. And they got seven partners. Right.

You're just like, what happened? Like, fuck, man. I wish it wasn't like that for them. I was just in one of the highest ranked business schools in the country. I just came back from there yesterday and I was sitting in on some classes and there's like, I call it like the Silicon Valley, like startup mindset. That's like how many rounds of capital are you, like how much debt are you going to go into before?

We're projecting to be revenue positive in 2020. Why the fuck aren't you revenue positive month two yeah like i i mean seriously like like why isn't that a goal if you're not there fine maybe month five but but everything revolves around debt yeah i agree and and and it's unbelievable and it's accepted right right and that and that's the problem and um i really think people have the mba education when it comes to business and people have the get slapped around i i didn't go to college i had to figure it out my self-education and i'll bet on that guy every day i never met anybody that has an mba that has a solution for fucking anything. All they ever do is bring up more problems or more questions.

Concept, concept, concept, concept. It's like you don't have a solution. You can't execute shit. I had that problem a lot, man. I was sitting across tables from guys that, you know, from this firm or that firm and hadn't even done a quarter of what I had done in sales and they just fucking hated me. And I had abs on top of it. I was just, I mean, straight up, bro.

Because they just move money. They went to Cornell and they move money and they're like, fuck this guy. I was just straight up, bro. They're like, they just move money. They went to Cornell and they move money and they're like, fuck this guy. I mean, dude, I went through it like crazy. That's why I was like,

fuck this world. Well, these people, they don't have respect for money a lot of times because they're bouncing from one business to another where they call it like a serial entrepreneur

or something like that. And even the word entrepreneur is just, it gets thrown around so much. It's like, just because you're unemployed doesn't mean you're an entrepreneur. Just because you have nothing going on doesn't mean that you're- And you know what's funny is though, how much cooler it is now than when I started my business

at 20 years old. It meant you were a loser back in the day. Yeah, dude, I swear to you, that's what it felt like. I remember when I said, I'm not going to go to school. All my friends are in college at Ohio State. I'm going to start this personal training studio. They were all fucking worried. Everybody was. But look at, like you brought up the shark tank, the show, the profit,

what CNBC is doing for showing the world business. It reminds me of what food network did for food 15 or 20 years ago. No, seriously. Like it's really showing people that business can be interesting. And, and there is an equation. You can't just walk in a room and say,

I want this much money because it's like, if you've watched Shark Tank a lot, you know the same 20 questions that they're going to ask. And how the hell could you walk in unprepared, watch five episodes, you know exactly what they're going to say. Yeah. And that's why they love airing that,

right? Cause they're like, Oh, I can't believe this guy like wasn't prepared for this. Yeah. When Stan went on there, how was his experience like? He loved it.

Yeah. He had a good experience. He said it was very like raw, you know, he said, you know, what you see is what you get with that show. If you remember, he like flipped the tire and he lifted that like 200 pound dumbbell and all this crazy stuff. He had to bring all that in. No one helped him.

He was like in a big lineup. And so he'd shuffle his tire along and, and he was just, he was carrying all this shit with him. And he's just, he said he was on pavement outside and it's like a hundred something degrees. And he's just like waiting in line. And so they just funnel them in just like that.

And then they take the ones that are good. I love that because that's what it takes to make it. They do a little prelim stuff. Make sure you're not like crazy. You're not going to do something nutty on TV or whatever, but they, they, uh, he loved it. He had a good experience and now he's doing some stuff with Damon John. And that's cool. I know he's working on, uh, continuing to push, to push the product.

But Stan is, Stan's a brilliant guy. And I knew that he would make that product work. And it's not, it's not because it's necessarily the most, uh, mind altering product ever invented or anything like that. It's just because the guy won't give up and he's smart. Yeah. He knows business well. So Stanford created a product that's, uh, it's like a igloo cooler, right? And your shaker goes inside of it, but it's also a water jug. So it's pretty, it's pretty. And he's also, he's also created one that's a little smaller, a little bit more universal. So I think that one will actually be a hit. But just when you see somebody that doesn't give up and when you see somebody that at

least has, you know, some intelligence going on and then third, that they're kind. Right. You know that, you know, that success is coming their way in a multitude of ways. And it could be money. It could be, not everyone's good at making money. Like making money is like its own weird, separate little thing. But you know that somebody that has some of those attributes,

you know that they're going to have a good life. Right, man. They're going to find happiness. We always talk about it on our podcast. It's like money, money, money. Once you've made some, you realize that, I always say this, like life changing money isn't making $5 million a year. Life changing money is when you made $30,000 a

year and can barely pay rent. And then you made 80, right? Because 80, you can go out on one vacation a year and you're not stressing month to month about bills. So yeah, I think it's- Yeah, and is your money climbing with your stress levels, you know, are your stress levels going up periodically as your finances are going up? Like maybe, maybe that is the case. And like, maybe that's okay to a certain extent for a certain period of time, but there's gotta be a point where that stress level starts to come back down and the money's, you know, heading in, in a good direction still. Absolutely. You know, I think a lot, a lot of people are,

they're just, they're, they get all in, they get so excited and they're not really thinking about some of these, uh, side things that can happen. Well, and that, and that, and that, that's the thing. It's like, if you think about how most people start businesses to them, it's this, it's this fantasy, right? It's like, like i'm gonna open this clothing store man it's gonna be so sick all the badasses are gonna come in and buy like like these sick t-shirts man i can't wait oh oh my rent's eight eight thousand why isn't your rent twenty five hundred did did did you learn and did you study commercial leases like no bro but it's gonna be sick you know it's like that's why ninety percent financial discipline is a thing you know it's but it's going to be sick. You know, it's like, that's why 90% of small businesses fail.

You know, it's like, we beat up our vendors. I beat up our vendors on BCAAs for freaking 10 cents every time I get on the phone with them. I'm like, we need it cheaper. We're going to go somewhere else. We need it cheaper. We're going to go somewhere else. Dude, it's like, you's like you can make more money

by not selling more, but just by dropping your costs. You know, it's, I mean, come on. Keep your quality the same and pay less. Yeah. Because your volume. You always want to negotiate

that overhead. They never want to talk to him. Everything is negotiable. They never want to talk to him, Mark. Oh yeah. They see his phone number. They're daunting him. You can't be afraid

of confrontation either. They always want to talk to me. That's funny. You know, that is a side of being an entrepreneur that can be somewhat annoying at times is that you do have to hustle your product. And it's a 24-7 thing. Yes. And you're not always like in the mood for it. You're not always in the mood to like, you might see someone with a protein shake or you guys might just in,

I see someone training, Hey, this product would be like, you don't want to do that, but you have to do it. It's part of the business, man. If it's wound into your life,

it's a, it's a little different. And what we've tend to do, like we have these deals where we throw in and like today we're throwing an extra pre-workout. If you buy an XL or whatever, it's like, but we make these funny videos to kind of, to show, to show the deal.

So we're trying to like make fun of ourselves, also tell you about the deal. And it's a little different. It doesn't feel as jammed on your throat. Yeah. And I think that's where, you know, personality varies. Like for me, like we talk about putting out a product, we put out products slow. Like if we're going to put out a product, like we truly believe it's the best. So if someone brings it up with me and this is just my personality type, I'm not saying it's the best. Like I feel like there's nothing I'd rather talk about anyways, because I just love talking about business. I love talking about our company and I love the opportunity if someone says, you know, oh, you have a protein too. It's like I can bring in a new customer and I can educate.

So I think knowing your personality and when to turn it on and when to turn it off is very crucial. Before we close this one out, I wanted to share a quick story. Years ago, I went to, you know, people kept telling me, Hey, you got to go see this guy. You got to go see this guy. Uh, he's one of the best, uh, physical therapists in the world. And you have to go check them out. You have to go check out his gym.

And a couple of friends kept telling me, I went on YouTube. I checked out some of his videos. Uh, that guy was Kelly's threat. And I actually did go to his facility, quote unquote, and unquote and uh check out what he had going on and it was just a parking lot yeah cell doors right yeah it was just a parking lot in san francisco behind a uh a sporting goods store right next to the golden gate bridge and it's windy and it's cold and it's rainy uh those people that aren't from san francisco or have never been to that area it actually gets very cold there and gets very windy the weather is uh can be kind of shitty at times so i go there and

i check this place out i'm like this guy doesn't have a gym like i thought he had a gym and i saw some of the videos online of him teaching people about mobility and all these different things he already had a really big following and the second that i met him i just saw the charisma just pouring out of him and i was like holy shit this guy's got it then he had somebody open up this uh storage bin and they started pulling out weights and and then all of a sudden this parking lot that had nothing in it turned in this magical environment for exercise and it just kind of started to hit me. I'm like, okay, the gym is not what I thought it was. Yeah.

The gym is like in your heart. The gym is like part of your soul in some way. And people are coming to this destination for this particular guy. That's all they're there for. Yep. He had 200 clients, 200 bucks a pop, and then he had this extra storage room that he called the pain pain dungeon or some shit like that and that's where he worked on people and he charged

200 bucks an hour for that so here's this guy who doesn't have a gym who's got this great clientele following he had a he had a trainer there that was working for him that was making six figures he was just fucking crushing it and he still crushes it and he's still still one of my best friends to this day i got in conversation with him and i'm like you got all these people following your stuff and you got this youtube thing and like all these things are going so great i'm like you have any sponsors or like you keep telling everybody about these lacrosse balls and like i'm like what are you gonna make a lacrosse because that's where my mind i'm a i'm a product guy and so i'm just like obsessed over like

sharing this information with him and he's like oh you know you got a lot of lacrosse balls here and i let's have a bucket over there and people just i let people take them home or whatever i'm like you don't have like a kelly's tourette ball or yeah you don't have any of this stuff and he's like no man i just not even thinking about it. Just trying to get people healthy and trying to share information and money-wise things are good, you know? And I said, well, what about like a sponsor, like a supplement something or other, or, you know?

And he's like, no, you know, I never, I don't really know any of those, you know, kind of companies and stuff like that. And I said, well, I do. I was like, my buddy, Corey, Corey Gregory, he's with MusclePharm. And I said, it's a great company. I said, Corey always I do. I was like, my buddy, Corey, Corey Gregory, he's with MusclePharm. And I said, there's a great company. I said, Corey always takes care of me.

He takes care of my buddy, Jesse Burdick. And I'd love for you guys to link up. It'd be great for you guys to communicate. So anyway, fast forward a little bit. They communicate, he gets set up. And he's extremely grateful and everything. I see Kelly maybe about two months later, and he and I grateful and everything. I see, uh, Kelly, maybe about two months later, and he and I are sitting there talking about a squat and I'm like, you know, you got to twist

your foot like this. And I was like, you know, it kind of sucks. Like the shoes you're wearing kind of suck. And, and you're starting to like bow out on the side of your shoe. And I'm like, I got these Chuck Taylors on, these are nice. And these kind of work pretty good for squats. And he's like, he's like, what? He goes, yeah. What people ask me about shoes for squats and shoes for, you know, deadlifts and stuff. He's like, does anybody make a shoe, you know, for powerlifting or anything like that? And I was like, I was like, no, man, they don't.

And he goes, okay, done deal. He's like, you're going to make a shoe with Reebok. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to make a shoe with Reebok. I'm like, that sounds fucking fantastic. So my whole point of sharing that story is you don't know who somebody is when you meet them and you don't know what doing something for somebody else is going to bring you. And for me, that's been a huge deal. Reebok is still a great partner of mine.

They still send us a lot of shoes. They do help take care of a lot of the guys in the gym. And it's been a fantastic relationship with them and with Kelly. And so those people out there that you're, you're hustling every day and you're working so hard and you have your head down. I understand it all. I do all the same shit and I,

you know, grit my teeth and I clinch my fist and I go hard too, but don't ever think that you have to go so fast where you can't care about other people. Slow yourself the fuck down a little bit. Take some time with people because you don't know how it's going to pay off. Absolutely. It's all networking, Mark. I love that message too, because some of the greatest lessons and business lessons, life lessons I've ever learned are from the most unassuming people. And it's just stopping myself for a moment, right? From my daily routine to talk to them or even ask them one question. And that one

question might turn into an hour. And I literally am enlightened and I'm like, oh my God, what about this idea? You're absolutely right. Love the point. Yeah, solid. I love Kelly Sturette too. He's a great guy. He's, he's the best. He's helped keep me in the game for sure. It's real good.

So it's, it's funny how that circle just, Yeah. And the relationships, I still have a great relationship with Kelly, obviously with yourself and continue will for years

and, and we're leaders of the industry. I like to think that. Cool, man. I'm super excited for you guys and I'll see you guys at the Arnold Classic.

Yeah, boy. I'm really fired up that you guys are doing some great things along with uh doing some stuff with ronda rousey coming up i mean how cool is that very cool uh just an unbelievable athlete and uh just cool human being anyway uh great having you guys on the show i really appreciate you guys coming out here to sacramento it means a lot. And thanks for your friendship and thanks for being on the podcast. I appreciate you, Mark. Thank you. Appreciate it. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never strength.

See you guys later.