Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 149 - Alberto Nunez

Episode Date: December 4, 2018

Alberto Nunez is a lifetime drug-free bodybuilder and is a co-founder and coach of 3D Muscle Journey (3DMJ). Berto has been lifting weight since he was 16, and started competing in bodybuilding in 2007, then the very next year he earned his pro status in virtually every major natural organization. He has played a vital role in promoting natural bodybuilding, and his contributions as a coach, athlete, and author have helped propel some of the growth the sport has seen over the last decade. ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/markbellspowerproject FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

that interface keeps getting better. Have you noticed that the phone like intentionally is screwed up after you have it for a long time? Yeah. And if you don't upgrade it. Battery, everything, everything. The upgrades like make it worse.

Yeah, well, Apple's even admitted to saying that, yeah, they slow them down. But it's for you though. Like, no, we promise. It's to take care of you. It's like, well, how are you making my phone shittier? How's that making me better? I had that theory a few years ago.

And then more recently, people have proved it. Yeah, they had to admit it. They said it was to prevent the battery from being overexhausted or something. So they're like, okay, you got us. We'll replace your battery for $30. My phone just gets flat out stupid after a while, though. Right now, my phone, for some reason, when I'm'm in my house it won't stay on wi-fi it won't stay connected to wi-fi just boots it off automatically yeah when the the 10 came out my phone would connect to the

gym's wi-fi and then when i'd go home it said i had the wrong password and so when i put the right password in it was like oh there's no internet i had how bad have you guys gotten screwed over by passwords I get killed I get killed by them and then people are like how come you just don't use the same password

it's like I've tried that before it doesn't work see I don't do the iPhones but the Samsungs are the exact same thing I got the the ghetto androids you're on the other side

yeah yeah if you don't have a GED you gotta plan for the other team yeah I always have to fix Stephanie's passwords what do we got going on over here Alberto Nunez it's been a while since you've been for the other team. Yeah. I always have to fix Stephanie's passwords.

Hmm. So what do we got going on over here? Alberto Nunez. It's been a while since you've been on the show. We're going. Yeah, we've been going. Oh, wow.

We record you going to the bathroom, bro. This whole time. It was sick. It was a good, good solid stream. We got the P test done. Yeah.

Um, same old man. It's just, you know, the scale keeps growing. That's, that's basically it scale's going up

yeah dude you pimping it big in here scaling up well your scale's going up when you weigh yourself and my scale's going up you know what I saw it was

scaling up speaking of scale it was that video you posted up with Stan he was doing those dumbbells and like oh shit dude I couldn't believe

that was you oh yeah I was wearing a fat suit that's what he used to look like, dude, I couldn't believe that was you. Oh yeah. I was wearing a fat suit. That's what he used to look like. Isn't that crazy? It's insane. That was wild. I know, you know, when I was doing the bodybuilding show, I got a lot of, uh, encouragement from

other, other bodybuilders and stuff. And I didn't really think that was going to happen. I guess I just, maybe I just didn't think about it. Or maybe I just thought like, that's kind of what they, yeah, I thought maybe that's what they do. And maybe like, maybe like, who's's this guy you know trying trying to do this or whatever but everybody was really encouraging and then i saw some of the posts that you made i thought it was really cool you're like no one goes no one goes over the middle harder than mark

smelly bell and i was like man that's freaking great especially coming from you i've seen how chiseled you get on stage so that was a a huge compliment. No, you did it right. And that's, that's the big thing. It's, it's, you know, like when I do your power lifting thing, you know, it's kind of humorous, but you know, I tried to pay respect to the sport and do it right. You know, and that was, that was one thing you did. You did really well. You, you emptied out the tank, man. That's what I wanted to do.

I wanted to, you know, like say, Hey, like, this is what I'm doing. And I wanted people to be like, yeah, okay. Probably kind of, kind of do it. And I'll probably look like decent, and i wanted people to be like yeah okay probably couldn't kind of do it and i'll probably look like decent but i wanted people to be like damn like he really improved a lot so that was the goal and i felt like i felt like i couldn't have done better i felt like i put everything i could into it well you know you do enough things like you know with with your lifting with uh with your company and a lot of a lot of it i mean if you stop and you think about it, it'll scare the shit out of you, right?

But if you just keep your feet moving, right, and just commit to whatever it is that you want to do, it's crazy what you can get done. So, I mean, it didn't surprise me by any means, but to see the transformation, that was pretty freaking wicked, man. Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, we were talking a little earlier about some natural bodybuilding. Now, here's when everybody tunes out, right?

They're done. Everybody just shut the damn podcast right off. Like natural what? We don't dunk. We do layups. Natural bodybuilding? Like the two things don't even go together. It sounds unnatural even to say it.

But I kind of had a question for you. And do you think sometimes the natural athletes can get a little bit better conditioning or end up with a better conditioning look and if so like what do you think the reason might be for that? I think to start off is just that we're not working with a whole lot of muscle You're skinny. Yeah, to put it bluntly that's what it is Some of you guys ain't skinny, though. You don't look skinny on stage.

You look jacked. So you can grow two ways. You can kind of grow this way. Or think about when they discovered the pyramids for the first time. They were all covered in sand. And then you dig around it. And that's a way to put on some size in a way. It gives you that illusion for sure.

I've done NPC shows and I'm always at the bottom of the weight class. But when we get up on that stage, oh, I'm headhunting, man. It's, I look bigger because of the conditioning. Right. So, so yeah, we, we don't have a lot of muscle. So it's like, you better do this one thing

that you could potentially do as well as the guys that are on the enhanced side. So you might as well just get as lean as you possibly can. So we've kind of discovered ways of getting that done. It's improved a lot over the last 10 years for sure. So I think that's the biggest thing. And then that was something you were alluding to was the fact that I just think it's a little bit more straightforward physiologically. You know, um, we know once I get into shape, I'm just in shape and I look like that every day and I can compete every single day of the week. Um, so yeah, it's,

it's way more predictable. Yeah. That makes some, that actually makes a lot of sense. It makes more sense than, uh, even, even in the words that you put it in, it's hard, hard to put it in words, but like, uh, for example, uh, somebody that is enhanced on a day when they're feeling good and they're, they got a little extra stuff in their system. They can grab the one fifties and they can throw them around like they're nothing on days when maybe they don't feel so great and maybe they have less stuff. Maybe they competed and it's, you a couple weeks after the show they've stopped taking stuff maybe those 150s turn into 120s but if you're a natural athlete on a bad day the 120s just turn into the 110s you know or or just a couple less reps but it's uh i agree with what you said it's uh seems to be there's more consistency yeah uh to the whole thing yeah and i'll tell you what though i think

regardless of how you do it i don't think people really appreciate the wear and tear that does put on your body yeah you know um both sides we experience slightly different things but man you're fucked after after a good season and if you did it right the thing i always think is is kind of crazy is how people say you know when you take stuff that you recover faster yeah and don't, I actually, I might sit here and tell you that I even have the slightest clue on what the fuck steroids do. I really don't know. I know they make it bigger and stronger and that's about it. Um, and I, I just, I haven't seen like a lot of research and stuff on it, but in terms of, uh, you know, it, it helping you to recover faster. I think that people think because you take them, then you don't get sore and you just like recover from your workout

and you're fine. Uh, which that's definitely not true. You still get very, very sore. And I would say that the soreness I experienced nowadays is the same as when I was natural. There's no, there's absolutely no difference there. I would say that if I was to like pinpoint it and put my finger on it, it allows you to do some stuff that you normally wouldn't be able to do. Uh, but also in saying that it's just a boost. And then once you get that boost and then it's like, well, you're still in the same spot and you just, or I'm not in the same spot, but you're boosted further ahead, but you can't take a lot more and keep boosting beyond that. You hit your power boost and that's it. Yeah.

When I speak to, because I think especially now more than ever, now that there's so many divisions in physique sports, and I'm cool with that because it's more inclusive. So someone can pick something and make that their goal. And I think that's fantastic. But the bodybuilders, we kind of like, we do stick together. And when I talk to one of my homies who's, you know, he's enhanced and he's four or five weeks up, he's just as wrecked as I am when I'm four or five weeks up. You know, it's like you said, it's just a different baseline. That's all. Right. Yeah.

What has kept you sticking with being a natural athlete? Oh, so I was close to jumping ship a few times. Oh, damn. Yeah, yeah. We almost got you. Yeah. I was very close, in fact. What was going through your head at that time?

And how long ago was that? This was maybe like 2007, 2008. I wanted to get my natural pro card just to say that, like, you know what, I was able to do something that way. And then once that was taken care of, it's like, you know what, let's go ahead and, you know, go on that side and try to do something there. And it wasn't until, so I actually, so Lane Norton was my coach. Never heard of him. I was, so when he got me, I was so wild. I didn't, there was no structure.

Just fly. I had never like had a meal plan or really did anything. It was just me and hard work, basically. He got that under control for me. I counted calories and watched what I ate for the first time ever. I got into fantastic shape and I was like, wow, like my body allows me to do this. And at the time it was very unique because guys weren't getting in shape the way they do now. So I'm like, wow, maybe, maybe I should just stick here a little bit longer. And, um, yeah, you'd get really shredded. I mean, striations through the triceps,

the shoulders, the chest, you'd have striations everywhere. You could have a striation. Yeah. I like to get to the point. I got veins in my glutes. I won't get up there until I got veins the chest, you've got striations. Everywhere you can have a striation, you have them. Yeah. I like to get to the point, I got veins in my glutes. I won't get up there until I got veins in my glutes. You're making me hungry. Some really dry, walnut-y looking glutes is the goal. But that was so unique at the time. Walnut glutes.

You write that down, Andrew? I was like, ooh, that sounds like an awesome dish. The nutcracker. I'll have the walnut glutes, please. But now it's a dime a dozen, but at the time it wasn't. So that kind of locked me in. Was the fact that I was able to get that lean. And I think now I've just become the poster boy for my sport. I'm here. I'm here and I'm going to keep working on this because I've found my specialty. I've found something that I'm good at, so I'm just going'm here and I'm gonna keep working on this because I found my specialty

I found something that I'm good at so I'm just gonna stick with it so yeah there we go do you feel like you're still able

to improve man I feel like you're still able to get better yeah I could whoop that dude so bad I got fourth place in that show

fourth place and I'd rock that dude so yeah it's subtle but I think honestly the biggest thing at this point is that it is so hard to improve that it's the the cognitive side of things that that i get from trying to make my bodybuilding better like when i do that like other things seem to take off in my life somebody who's listening to us right now and they're like on the fence about whether they want to take something or or not i think this is really important you guys pay attention to this message because

i'm not going to say that you should or shouldn't but i will say that in the shoes that alberto's in right now and the shoes that i'm in right now guess what it's both hard for us to make progress so if you choose the route to get on stuff you got to to realize, look, man, I might end up being on it forever because what's my choice. My choice is just to be a lot less than I was yesterday, which who the hell wants that? So that, that ends up being a really difficult thing that I feel like not enough people are mentioning, uh, when it comes to a performance enhancing drugs, it's like, well, you use them and then what do you do? so maybe you used them for a couple shows or something but are you going to really stop and like be have a worse physique and uh be less strong you know and some of these things could happen so those are all things to consider

when you're on the fence and you're thinking about doing them is that you could end up if you really are addicted to the iron you could end up being addicted to steroids because how are you going to come off of them what's your plan yeah and it's just a different end goal at the end that's what it is it's still dude how many times have you anything you've done like you're like most people would have said fuck it i'm done at this point right and you just keep rolling with it so it's it really depends on what your end goal is but either way there's a lot of people that want the exact same thing you want and you're going to have to hustle. Because I know a lot of guys that like, they jumped on, they're like, oh, this is my chance. Like, you know, Frankie goes to Hollywood and hit it up big and they just ended up being some mediocre dude that, you know, they didn't have

all the other parts in place. Right. And that has to be in place beforehand. You also like to throw around some heavyweights. I know that like right now you're, uh, you kind of bulking up getting thick and you got some goals to hit up a power theme meet. Yeah, yeah. I've been cruising a little bit. I partially tore a forearm in July, and so I've been having to kind of shut it down. Heroids. That's proof that you're not natural, by the way, and the veins. We're going over the muscle tears. We have quite a few between you and I. Yeah, we were like old war veterans talking over here.

This is the 20th year of training, though, man. Yeah. So I know when to shut it down. And this year, I've kind of shut it down just a little bit. But start of the year, it's like, all right, let's get some new muscle tears. I'm going to be 36 next March. Oh, damn. So it's up there, man.

Keeping that young look, though. It must be the hair. That long hair is keeping you young. Take the skin steroids. What's going on with that hair? Ooh. I thought it was going to be low maintenance, man, but now it just became my thing. And it's like, I feel like I got to keep it for the people.

When I got off the airplane. It's kind of like a beard. When someone has a beard, everyone gets all excited about it. You can't lose it, really. The people want to see the hair, so I got to keep it around. It's like Smokey with his beard. Like, if he trims it or something, people get all upset. That dude gets weekly haircuts.

So that's what I thought this was going to be. I thought it was going to be low maintenance, but you have to do all those things. You need special care for that? No, not really. Not really. Not too bad? Coconut oil. There we go.

That's basically all I use. You throw some coconut oil in there? That's it. That's it. I'm watching a video of you chucking around 150 pound dumbbells what's going on with that oh my god that was so reckless um yeah i've actually gone i can't do it right now but it's a forum thing but i've done the 160s for a set of four so not bad for a guy 190 it's crazy yeah it's just absolutely uh fascinating with how you can make the human body look um do you use kind of traditional bodybuilding techniques do you use power lifting and i mean it looks like you're kind of lifting pretty heavy

or do you use a combination of things you know at the end it's like what muscles look cool but they move joints that's that's the main thing they do, right? That's their specialty. So if you progress performance-wise, even though it is a subjective sport, it's like, guess what? It starts to show on your physique. So I've always taken methods from powerlifters that they use to get stronger and apply them to my training.

And it's helped me a lot because, I don't know, I like to think I'm decently talented, but there's some freaks out there. So I think people look at this, they're like some, some people anyways, and they're like, that's no way, right. There's gotta be a little something there. Um, man, there's some dudes out there that are just in SEMA. Yeah. Good to see that homie walking around here and like 230 pounds emaciated on stage. Yeah. What so so yeah i've had to be intelligent about my training um now more than in previous years but but yeah no i like to get stronger i like to get strong and i'm gonna try to get strong one more time i would imagine that this whole journey started with you being very thin yeah yeah yeah yeah and uh so what body weight did you kind of

start out at um so i think i was about first day in the gym i was probably 140 pounds about this height 16 years old yeah and i just right i didn't want to lift weights because my dad lifted weights so i was you know you want to rebel against what your parents are doing right but it was like the first day there i'm like man i think i could excel at this i was doing other sports and doing quite well but this was the first sport where where, because the other sports, I would just kind of show up, work really hard. I'm competitive. Right. And I would do okay.

But with this, it's like what you put in is what you get on the other side. And that was very appealing to me. I was like, I've never been in a situation like that. And I remember, shoot, I remember I was a crooked young man. And I remember it just got me away from that stuff. And all I cared about was the gym. And to be honest, in hindsight, it probably saved my life. Wow.

Yeah. You were just kind of hanging with the wrong crowd, things like that? So this was like the epic moment right here. I remember me and the friends, we were doing all sorts of stuff. And I get this phone call. They're like, we're about to do this tonight. Like, you need to come up and join us. And I had an epic chest day lined up. Uh-oh um so i couldn't miss the epic chest day like this is

about pecs guys what are you guys talking about so i went to go do the pec thing and then i get back home we didn't have cell phones at the time and uh and i get a phone call that no the homies got caught up one of them was bit by a dog and i'm like oh wow like that's like that that would have been me right in that situation and we had been getting away with stuff up until that point so i think right then and there i'm like all right i think you made the right choice let's just put our head down and work yeah did you get in trouble a lot as a kid in general and uh struggle with school and that kind of thing yeah yeah no i'd say so. I was talking to Smokey about this, but yeah, I was in and out of high school.

And the only, the first thing that I ever really committed to was like lifting weights. And like through that, I just like, as soon as I started really being about that, everything else just kind of came together. This kind of stuff,

it just fascinates me, you know, is like without some form of responsibility, um, then we don't really feel like we have much of a purpose, you know, and, um, is, I know that, you know, we talk about weights all the time on here and we always talk about lifting and talk about diet and stuff, but I don't think there's much else to talk about because I think that there's, there's so important towards any goal that you might have towards doing anything.

Um, to look at Arnold Schwarzenegger and to think, oh man, you know, he's successful cause he, you know, threw around some weights and looked like it looked, uh,

you know, different than everybody else. It's just so much deeper than that. You know, so much deeper than that. And the guy's been successful in nearly everything that he's tried. Uh, it's absolutely ridiculous, but it's, it shouldn't be any surprise to anybody that the dedication that it took for him to be the person that he became for him to be the bodybuilder that he was shouldn't be any surprise that he was able to, uh, you know, run, run for a governor. It was,

should be no surprise. He was able to do all these other things after his bodybuilding career. I mean, I'm sure you wake up and you feel like it's your, you know, how we hate to plateau in the gym and it's like your moral obligation almost to, you know, you personally like to, you know, take steps forward to do something different to push yourself right you just you don't feel right if you don't have something like that and that's the weightlifting thing at this point i think it's pretty automated like that's just take that's the only way i know how to do it right but like now it's gone to the point where that's kind of on cruise control even when i think i'm cruising i'm not cruising man right you know um but it's all these other things that i wake up

with and i'm like it's my moral obligation to wake up make a difference leave this place better than I found it and that's that's just what keeps me going and that wasn't me when I was 16 when I first started this right just kind of doing my thing yeah and when you're a kid I mean all you're thinking you know well not even when you're a kid but even as you even as you grow up and you start to become involved in a sport or something like that, you're really just thinking about yourself and now you're really thinking about how, how do I, and then as you get older, you start to become wiser and start to realize, ah, okay. Like if I, if I pour myself into some other people, then I actually move along a lot faster.

Yeah. Yeah. It's actually a great phenomenon. Yeah. No. And like now we're here, Nick. I mean, it's, it's kind of dumb. It's like it started with like shaving your body. But now we're now we're making a difference. And it's just like it's I'm so thankful that I found this because a lot of people go their whole lives never finding that one thing that gets them going.

What do you think the hardest part has been for you to stay dedicated to or consistent to? Has it been the training? Has it been the diet? Has it been like just kind of the overall lifestyle of like, I don't know if you're a guy that eats six times a day, but there's a lot of that that goes on as well. Man, I think it doesn't even have to do with like all that others, like it's just habits.

Like, you know, like all this stuff you do now, like, you know, back when you were, you looked a little different, right? Like it would have been stressful, but this is not all you know. You know, it's like not pushing a set. It's like you don't know how to like not push a set, right? So lost my train of thought,

but that's probably, it's like getting people to do that like through my work that's probably like that's my number one mission at this point is to is to is to do that because i'm not going to be around forever you know eventually like all athletes i'm gonna have to be on that decline right and but i want to leave some sort of legacy that is you know right that maybe encourages the next person to continue that trend. It's an interesting thing. I feel the same way. I feel like I want to try to get people.

If I can get people to feel a quarter of what I'm feeling, 10% of what I'm feeling from training and from diet, then I'll feel like I've been pretty successful because they'll be lured in by that. They'll be screwed. Like they'll be just like you or I where they have to kind of do this the rest of their life because the act of not lifting weights makes them feel worse. The act of eating ice cream outweighs the benefits and how they feel of eating steak and potato or something like that. See, it's no longer just about you. And I think that's the cool part.

And that's what I work for every single day. And it gets to be a point where it doesn't even seem like a choice. It's just something that gets done. Yeah. It's just something that you do. Yeah. To get as lean as you are in some of these videos that we were just watching, are you doing cardio and stuff too?

I mean, what does all this look like? So for some preps, I did cardio for other, other ones, not too much. Um, I think it makes a difference. I think so. It just lets me eat more so that I can train harder. So that's probably the biggest thing I found. Do you think that there's, do you think that there's something to that? Because, you know, people talk about calories in calories out type of stuff, but I noticed in my, uh, you know, eight weeks of bodybuilding, um, I know I, I felt like it made more sense to have the cardio in there and to be able to eat more. It almost felt like, and I know it's like maybe not the exact way that it works, but it felt like the lifting was to gain muscle.

The food was to help fuel the muscle. And the cardio specifically was like for burning fat. I know it's probably a little bit more complicated than just that, but that's really what it felt like it was doing. And it, and it felt like if I was just to cut back on just calories, that maybe I would be not supporting my lifting as well. No, no, I agree with that. So this last prep, I did cardio. I walked. That's what I did. I did 10,000 steps a day, and then I would just add steps as I got stuck.

At a pretty good rate or just walking period? Just walking. Sometimes if I had something to do, I'd walk a little faster. But it was a good productive time, too. I'd put on some audio books or something and do that. But, yeah, it just made it so that a lot of my like energy needs were just heightened via the the the cardio so it helped i'll never do another prep without i've done preps like with little to no cardio but way better this

i was able to train way harder like i i kept like like 95 of my off season strength. Do you think maybe it's like, uh, almost in relation to sometimes people will say, um, somebody might say, uh, you can, you can bodybuild without carbs, right? Yeah.

And it's like, okay, well, yeah, you probably can, but it's just easier to have the carbs. Yeah. Would you kind of say the same thing with,

with the cardio? Like, yes, you can get really lean and shredded and you can look great without the cardio, but it's just, you'll get there faster. It's a little easier to do it with the cardio. No, absolutely. You know, I felt like I was getting into the car through the car window

when I was not doing cardio. It just made it a lot, a lot simpler, more straightforward. No, I'll never do it without cardio again. And I lose fat really well, but still it made it so much easier, way easier. You, um, you work with a lot of people. You've helped a lot of people over the years. And have you noticed huge differences in the amount of requirements people need in terms of their macronutrients, in terms of their carbohydrates and fats and these different things? Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of all over the map. Same principles. But, man, I think the biggest thing that you need to identify if you want to do this at some point is how do you store fat? So people who tend to store fat in their gut only or mostly in their gut, they tend to lose the easiest.

So that's why like you have, you know, like a husband and wife get on the diet and do the South Beach diet because that's what the wife wants to do. And the husband's here losing all that weight because he has typical like male like body fat storage patterns. Whereas like usually females, they tend to store store in their lower half more yep that when i see someone who's got abs but like their legs look like stuffed raviolis i'm like this is gonna fucking hurt that's that's how it is so yeah that's probably the biggest difference is it can tell just how by how you store fat how hard it is going to be for you like you want to see that guy that's got like vascular arms or a little gut. Like that's the dude that's just going to just emaciate super easily.

So that's the biggest thing. And then I think the other thing is just the caloric needs are so different from person to person. Right. Yeah. Do you have any idea why? Is it not the differences in caloric, but the first thing that you said about the male-female model there. Do you think it has to do with hormones or just mainly what you've seen? I think a lot of it's what I've seen, but there's just a lot of...

So there's less circulation. Like, for example, you know how most butts are cold? Yeah. There's very little... Well, yeah, actually, it's really weird, but you can't like tell. If you asked yourself, is my butt hot or cold? And you try to answer it and then you touch your butt, you'll be wrong most of the time. Yeah.

Most butts are cold. There's very little circulation going through there. And like a lot of the muscles in that hip area. So it's hard to mobilize fat through there. Right. And just women tend to have it that way a little bit worse than men. It's hard to get rid of that shit, huh? Yeah, Stephanie's butt's always cold at night.

Right? Yeah. It's freezing. Butts are cold. You gotta warm it up. That's an idea. Gotta get close to it and warm that peach up. Yeah, Mark, if you ever need somebody

to let you know if your butt's cold or not, I'm here for you, buddy. You're right behind me? Right behind you, yeah. In a lot of your bodybuilding i remember lane uh mentioning to me uh that you could eat like crazy amount of carbohydrates yeah yeah uh what what level of carbohydrates were you consuming so i think this was the first prep where i had to dip down under 400 grams a day so that's like 1600 you're slowing

down yes the old thing is happening. But I think a lot of that has to do with I'm just way more sedentary now compared to before. So that's a big thing. It's like if you're a server somewhere, you're probably going to use up a bit more caloric intake. Because people often, they relate a lot of the caloric intake to metabolism. But it's more so a person's drive to move, whether it be conscious or not. Because you remember, what did a flight of stairs look like to you when you were deep into your prep, right? Your body just, it finds a way to like make budget cuts.

And a lot of it is just movement throughout the day that, you know, you don't realize it gobbles up a lot of calories. Right. So you're a big believer in calories in, calories out, flexible dieting type stuff, right? Ish, but I've been kind of, Hey, it's a trap, man. It's, it's like a lot of people use that to, cause like with your system, I remember one thing when, when you started to lose the weight,

you might've labeled it something, but it was a change in behaviors. That was the biggest thing. Right. Whereas if people don't focus on behaviors and they just solely rely on a system, that's like their problem solver, like end all system. Those are the people that they don't last very long. years and they just solely rely on a system that's like their problem solver like end all system those are the people that they don't last very long and you might

have like two three good years out of them but then that's it because like what are your default like systems now like if you didn't have like if things weren't

laid out the way they are for you like yeah if I want to go haywire I'm gonna eat a freaking quest bar you know what I mean like that's me partying yeah that's me going

going nuts I mean occasionally I'll say you know what I've been doing that's me partying. Yeah. That's me going, going nuts. I mean, occasionally I'll say, you know what? I've been doing this for a long time and I'm just going to, I'm going to take the weekend off or take a couple of days off. And I feel like I can do that now,

but in the past that would have been a big, a big mistake because my mindset was so different. And I bet you it looks different. You know, you probably sneak in a few things that if you were like, well, you don't have to do that.

It's your weekend off. So I believe in flexible diet. I think that it does come down to calories. But most systems kind of take care of that by default, like without knowing. Yeah, I agree. But at the end, like the biggest thing before you decide to compete is like you need to have good habits. And that's what you did right, homie, because you had your habits in place. You just added a few things to it and you did a bodybuilding show right now i think that when people are saying

that they're on a diet they're really uh they're the goal of the diet really is to is to truly try to change a lot of their habits yeah a lot of their bad dietary habits a lot maybe even just like lifestyle habits maybe they go to bed late i think a huge problem that, a lot of, maybe even just like lifestyle habits. Maybe they go to bed late. I think a huge problem that, that a lot of people are facing and, uh, you know, you're not really sure what comes first, the kind of chicken or the egg, you know, are you, are you, uh, making bad choices with your food because you're fatigued every day because you're not sleeping or are you consuming bad food, you know, just shitty food in general. And, uh, that's causing a cascade of problems. One of which is that you're not sleeping very well. You know, some people are getting so heavy

and so big that they're not as motivated to move because they're too big to, they're like, ah, a flight of stairs doesn't look great. I'm gonna take the elevator. There's those kinds of decisions being made all the time. Then there's also, um, you know, your food eventually when you eat poorly is going to affect your body a lot. And it's going to affect a lot of the things that we naturally have wired in our system that tell us, you know, hey, go to bed and do this and do that and stay asleep. But a lot of times when someone's not healthy, they're going to wake up at two in the morning. They're going to rip through their cabinet, eat ice cream and whatever else is there. When behaviors cascade, if you do something good for yourself on this end, you're going to start taking care of the sleep.

You're going to start taking care of the stress. You start getting things in order. It just becomes automated. This doesn't feel like an effort anymore. It doesn't. I'll take my evening off and just go have a few beers with the boys. I wake up the next morning and it's like, hey, whey protein, shake some fruits.

It's right back at it. I don't know any other way. Do you feel that maybe the negatives outweigh the positives a little bit? Like they're a little stronger? Maybe there's just like, I don't know. Or do you think that's just bad habits over a period of time making it feel like the negative is easier, like it's easier just to eat pizza?

I think, yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's complicated, man. So there's so many things that go into like why people do things. Yeah. But, but man, the biggest thing is just figuring out something that's just, it's just as automated as can be for you. Like when you were doing the no carb thing, like that was, did you have to think? No, no. That's what made it easy. Yeah. That's what made it easy is. And for somebody else maybe that maybe it makes it easy for them to just write down everything yeah maybe it makes it easy for them to count calories so like for a while i was kind of like beat bashing people over the head with the war on carbs type

thing and saying hey like you know this is dumb that you're so concerned about counting calories but then you're eating you know you're eating're eating a Pop-Tart or whatever. Right. But at the same time, I'm like, well, all the diets are basically trying to say the same thing. And it's what you've mentioned already, which is you got to change your habits. The reasons why you have to change your habits is you have to have some form of control. We have to figure out a way to get control because ultimately we are in search of being able to control the overall calories that we're consuming versus the overall calories that we're burning. And yes, it might not be a one-to-one ratio and it might not be perfect and it might be

different in every single person. It might be hard to account for how many calories are truly in things. Like we already know all these things, but really we're just trying to get some control, trying to gain some self-control and that's going to be a lot of there's a going to be might be a lot of habits to break yeah and for the person out there that's like you know i kind of want to do something like that because a lot of people that say they're not that cool with how things are especially in the strength community sometimes you see that a little bit but it can get to the point where it's it feels like the good habits feels like mindless is like when you're just having pizza and you know, like that's, that's what my whole life feels like.

It feels like I'm having pizza all day, but I think most people look at it like. Yeah. That's actually a really great way to put it. I think that makes a lot of sense for people. Like, cause if they're, they're kind of audible, their go-to is, you know, that there's no food at home and they just order pizza. Well, now the go-to is that thing that you cooked earlier in the week. It's just sitting there, whether it's meatballs or chicken breast and rice or whatever it was that you is your go-to it's now sitting there. And I think, you know, a really, a really big failure, I think for most people is thinking

that when you go on a diet that there's going to be this this crazy amount of sacrifice yeah there's some sacrifice but like if you're 300 pounds and you and you just want to start to lose some weight and get some momentum small sacrifices will help you to lose weight yeah yeah some small changes will help you lose weight start walking start drinking more water start sleeping a little bit more. Maybe just cut back on soft drinks that have calories in them. And like you might be on your way to losing five or ten pounds. When I make decisions, like life-changing decisions,

like something maybe new that I want to do that's like meditating, whatever. It's like I always start off and I give myself an amount that I know I'll thrive thrive with as opposed to like can i get this done so you start with like very little right you know and you always want to feel like you're ahead like i can do this on my worst day and the issue with most people is they go from being that 300 pound dude to like you know i'm gonna do all these things and like live like jay cutler right good luck that's gonna be like two weeks for you and in your comparison there would be like you're you're you're thinking about meditating you're like i'm gonna be a shallon monk tomorrow yeah yeah it's like no why don't you first of all why don't you just try to like be without your phone for 30 seconds you know and just just just chill and try to you know

whatever your version of meditation is different people kind of have their different some people like to listen to music. Some people say that, you know, no music. Some people say, close your eyes. Some people say it doesn't matter. But find a version that you think is good and try to do two minutes. If you do one week, one day a week, like what is that? That's way more than you were doing anyways.

Right. Oh, you know what's next for me? I want to do the dopamine fast. I don't know if you've heard about that. No. So, you know how we get like we'll pick up the phone a little dopamine hit there a little drink dopamine right lifting weights like we're going to get dopamine

faster or we're going to fast away from it we're going to fast we're going to fast we're going to get away from it for one day basically one day no nothing no nothing no talking to anyone you just lock yourself up somewhere oh so you just do it for a day for a day for a day and all you have can't jerk off no i mean i get a lot of dopamine yeah just you and your notebook just you and your notebook alone for one day and that's something

that at some point i'm scared to do that one man because that one freaks me out it's like i can't it's crazy because it's it's it's only it's only But, man, one day will seem really, really long. You know, I've done, I think about the different things that you've done, like, you know, and you try to devote, like, a period of time to it. You know, an eight-week bodybuilding prep or, you know, 12 or sometimes, natural guys sometimes will do 20, 30 weeks, right? Yep. You really diet for a long time. When you start to think about like dedicating a time slot to something, even if it's just like meeting up with somebody, somebody's like, hey man, you got some time on Tuesday to meet up at 10 o'clock?

You're like, ah, like stresses you the hell out, you know? So to try to pin yourself down for one day and say like, I'm not going to, you know, have my phone. I'm just going to like kind of chill. Well, I mean mean what other things would you have to avoid to like would you just not eat that day you'd fast i think you fast i think that's part of the act is i think it's just water just water in a notebook in a cave somewhere damn i'd be with that though i'm scared shitless to do it but yeah sounds scary where'd you hear that from

you know you go down the youtube rabbit hole. Oh, no. Oh, no. You start with midget strippers, and then you end up way over here. Yeah, so that's... How does it always start out with midget strippers? That's weird. That's the center of the rabbit hole. I like their squat leverages. I'd imagine if you did this dopamine fast,

you'd probably realize how much time you actually had to kind of devote to yourself. You know what I feel would happen? The very next day next day i would all those things that you kind of put off you're like i can't wait to do that oh yeah you know it's like i'm a i'm gonna get working on my my front yard you know so i can see that yeah all the stuff that you've been putting aside because like i get to that later and then now you're just like, I get to do it. I could do it. Yeah, exactly. What makes you tick, man? What gets you fired up?

What gets you out of bed every day, fired up for the day? I guess the fact that I've made it this far already is something that like I used to just in my own way like I've done more than I ever thought I would um but I also felt like I wasted a lot of time like when I look back I'm like if if I could have taken this young man at like 12 13 you know whatever like built him up like I think things would have been even better. And you can't, sometimes you can't help, but like dwell on that. But the fact that it's like, I see the power in just like keeping your feet moving and doing something like now it's like, okay, you can still do a whole lot. Like, you know, if things go well, I'm about half up about the halfway point. Um, so that's what keeps me going. It's like, don't waste no more time,

you know, do something, you know, better now. And what you can do when you just keep those feet moving. It's pretty crazy. I try to share the message here on this show a lot with, uh, you know, never do nothing, you know, do more, be more, the more that you can do, the more that you can handle. And, you know, the bodybuilding thing kind of takes that, takes it really really far yeah um but in the middle of a bodybuilding prep it's kind of a magical spot to be in oh i know what you're talking about yeah you know it's it's a really it's when you start to really start to diet and you start to come you start to come closer to the show that's not a great spot to be in for

there's a bunch of reasons i don't know about you but like i also felt myself being really judgmental yeah i was like looking at other people eat and I'm like, that guy's a fat fuck. Why is he, why is he stuffing his face with that? And then I'm like, why am I having such negative thoughts? Why do I care what that guy's eating? He's enjoying himself. Why should I even care? But the middle of that bodybuilding prep is a really special place to be. And it feels like you're spinning a lot of plates at once. You're getting in shape. You're knocking out your cardio. It's all a bunch of work that you like made up for yourself, right? Like the diet, maybe you have a coach, but it's something that you agreed upon. You're like, I'm going to do, I'm going to do this this way. And you gave yourself like almost,

you almost gave yourself so much shit to do that you don't have a second to like sit down and breathe and really think about anything else. It's that spot right before you become useless where you're, you know, you're, you're, you're in that mode. And the coach takes away your fat, your carbs or something. You're like, ah, just pull the rug out from underneath me, man. But it's my lifeline, bro. I want to live in that spot. Like that's, that's where I'd like to go.

Um, I think Michael Hearn lives there. I think he does, man. I think, I think it's why he's think he's the mayor yeah yeah he's the gatekeeper yeah he's seen he might not let you in bro with that hair but no i i know what you're talking about in that because if you do it right with your prep as you're doing that you're taking care of other things as well like i think a coward just does the herman thing where they're like you know what i'm a prep and like fuck everything else fuck my relationships you know my responsibilities and they just as like people see that as hardcore i'm like dude that's

that's that's the cop-out that's that's the cop-out so the that sweet spot where you have everything going and you're just like a fucking machine like that is like with anything in life remember walking into my first uh it was organic chem class and i just done my first prep and i killed myself to get in shape that year i remember i was so intimidated because the class was a six unit class most big math classes are five so they kind of they're telling you like you're about to get run over like your life is over is what six units means um i remember looking at all these foods and i'm like i just fucking did something that no one in this class could do nobody it makes you feel superior it does but you know i'm a competitive guy and that's that's how i yeah no

it's not negative no it's not negative it's positive yeah but people in that class gonna get an a yeah you know so i'm like if i just did this and you guys couldn't touch that, I'm about to go do the same thing. I'm about to crush this class. And I think that's something a lot of athletes fail to get from what they do in here. You you guys do stuff that's like incredible. It's crazy, but it stays there. And that's that's unfair to you. It's really it's really, really powerful. When like if you're sitting in a classroom, there's like 40 people in there, you might think, okay, I can't outrun that dude. I can't out jump that guy. I can't, you know, uh, out gymnastics, that girl over there. I can't out do this or that with this person.

But when you feel that you are mentally stronger than everybody else in the room, like that is, that is an amazing you know i i've you know been power of things since time i was a kid and and most rooms that i've been in a lot of times when i go into a room i could say yeah like it's kind of cool like i'm stronger than everybody in the room like it feels good but i'll tell you what nothing compares to to feeling like you have more mental strength or more heart yeah and it might not even be true because who knows what people like. Who cares? You believe it.

Yeah, you don't. Right. That's the main thing is that you believe it. And that's a belief in yourself that's deep. Like that comes from, who knows where it comes from, but it comes from like your gut. It comes from way down deep. And if they were to bring you up in front of class and say,

Alberto, it seems like you got a chip on your shoulder. What's going on today? And you're like, I'm better than every motherfucker in this room because I'm on this strict-ass diet, and I don't think any of you suckers can follow it. Right? I mean, you'd be able to, like, kind of say that, and when you said it, you wouldn't, your words wouldn't be quivering, you wouldn't be stumbling over them, you wouldn't be second-guessing yourself.

That's the way you actually feel in that moment. Well, I mean, when you think about us humans, we're weak and puny. Even Bo Jackson. Oh, don't talk about Bo. The animal kingdom would be like, whatever. But what we do have is this thing up here that's just insane, and people don't tap into that. So you can be the shittiest athlete, but if you've got this stuff,

I feel like I'm a pretender sometimes. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of guys that are way more talented than me but i'll i've rolled through them because right because of that because of that belief i think it's important to keep that mindset you got to have that kind of like white belt mentality where you're like i haven't done shit yet yeah what do you think when you go down before a heavy ass squad it's not like i don't think it's going to go up there's no doubt in your mind and that's how you should approach it i'm not sure if i'm going to make this right like that's not a bad that's not a good way to go into that no you don't say oh

shit you know i only see myself doing it that's that's it the most productive people i've been around it's really rare to see them fail yeah you know they might mess up something here and there but um the whole time i worked with stan efforting helping him get ready to break all-time world records i saw him miss one lift you know i saw him miss one i saw him miss one bench attempt or i guess now that i think about it i saw him miss two lifts because he missed the deadlift in competition right towards hamstring so i saw him miss one bench press i saw him miss one deadlift and the bench press that he missed he corrected it in the meet on game day when it mattered most but most of the time like he was very confident in his strength he's very confident what he was doing and uh you know i was kind of helping him call some of the

numbers but he he would just hit just enough weight to get out of it what he needed and he wasn't there to like really show off or anything it was just this is the work that needs to get done for the day. And this is what I'm doing. That's, that's, that's the whole amnesia thing. Like say what you want about Donald Trump, for example, but like that homie, like he, he can do anything. And if he messes up, he's like, I'll get it this next time.

Yeah. And there's no doubt in his mind. Oh, the, the things that he tweets and the things that he says are, I know it upsets a lot of people and people get crazy about it. But you think, man, that guy, like, is there anybody mentally stronger than that guy? Like he just, somebody will say something. It could be true about him. It could be an allegation that's true about him.

He'll be like, fake news. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here's what I like to take from people. It's like, I heard this somewhere, but like like you got to pick your role models a la carte. Yeah. You don't like take everything about that person.

But everyone, everyone who's successful has something that you're like, I can, I can vibe off that and I can apply that to myself. And I should try to, you know, get a little bit of that myself. Well, I like that because who knows what Arnold Schwarzenegger does behind closed doors or who knows how Donald Trump actually is. But I think what people get confused about, too, is like, you know, saying that someone like Donald Trump does A, B, and C. It's like, wait a second. That's fine that you're saying that. But does that have anything to do with him being the president of the United States? Yeah.

If it does, then maybe there's some real general concern. But like, let's keep in mind like what we're, what we're looking for. You know, you think of someone like OJ Simpson who committed these horrific acts, doesn't take away the fact that he was a hall of fame running back. He was, he was a great running back. And so if you're aspiring to be like somebody, maybe you're only aspiring to be like just part of what you're seeing and not

everything else that goes on. Cause you don't know what goes on. Yeah. No, it's way safer to do it that way. Yeah. Much safer. Maybe you aspire to be more like your mom or more like your dad. Yeah.

Somebody that you really, you know, you've been around them a lot. You've seen them make the right decisions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know that's, uh, speaking of moms, I know you close with your parents. Hell yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Close with your mom, your mom, mama's boy. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I got her to retire and I'm like, just come and parents. Hell yeah. Yeah, close with your mom. Your mama's boy? Yeah, yeah. So I got her to retire, and I'm like, just come and move in with me. Oh, really? Yeah, just like your job is to take care of the dogs while I come away. Oh, that's cool.

So it's like the least I could do. She put up with my shit for so long. She's chilling with your dogs right now? Yep, that's what she's doing. She's out in Colorado smoking a doobie with the dogs in the pool. She's the one who actually writes the bodybuilding programs when you sign up for Alberto's stuff. Her and the guy from India. Yeah, I was just going to say, your mom checked in. She's like, I shared today's podcast.

Make sure you guys keep your language clean. Yes, mom. Oh, no. We will. Oh, no. You've done a good job. Yeah, no, we're fine. When you're getting ready for a bodybuilding show and we saw these striations popping out of everywhere,

bodybuilding show and, uh, you know, we, we saw these striations popping out of everywhere. Um, does that do the exercises play into that somewhat, or is it just, uh, is it diet or combination? What do you got going on there? No, I think it's more diet and just development. You know, unfortunately the way things grow is the way they grow. Um, but no, I think the biggest thing is just keep dieting and don't be afraid to like, I have no muscle, like, you know, relatively speaking, but I'm not afraid to diet because i have nothing to lose right i think that's something that the big dudes because that's what makes them unique and big they don't want to see a certain number on

the scale but you keep going like you saw this you know some of your body parts that maybe you were a bit questionable about as you got leaner you're like hey they look all right yeah yeah actually i know i was uh i was kind of always the person that would say, man, I'd be a horrible bodybuilder. Because I've torn both my biceps. I've torn my pec. I've torn this. I've torn that. So I'm like, that would just not look good.

And then I had Hany Rambod on the podcast one day. And he was like, you know what? There's a show here in Sacramento. And it's in nine weeks. And he's like, you're doing it. And I was like, OK. That's how it happened. I was like, if you're going, you're doing it. And I was like, okay. That's how it happened.

I was like, if you're going to help me then, because I was like, I know zero about bodybuilding. So I was like, if you're going to help me, then that would, you know, of course I'll do it. Because I'm going to need some damn help, you know, in order to do it. But, you know, it was a challenge, you know. It was hard to jump into something like that. But, you know, it was reassuring to have someone like that who's got so much experience.

You know, somebody that can kind of lead you through it. And he kept making tweaks. And I don't know what he's looking at or what he's not, you know. He's looking at these pictures I'm sending him every morning of me in my underwear, basically. I'm sure he's getting off on it or something. But, you know, he's telling me, hey, like, eat this. Hey, switch from this vegetable to that vegetable. I'm like like what difference is that going to make and then sure enough three days later i'm a lot leaner i'm like i don't understand what's going on but i'm not going

to question i'm just going to keep going hey but that whole process is a trip it like speaking of a dopamine fast it's almost like that like for you're cruising and it's like this weird like life slows down yeah you know and that's what i go back for like every few years i go back because i'm like i need to go through that again because I always come out a better person on the other side. And I always push more than I thought I could.

That's interesting. Yeah. I've actually been thinking about like doing something here at the gym where, you know, I invite some people here. I don't know exactly

how it would work, but like we train super early. They eat, you know, we all eat the same. Like we kind of go through a little bit of that process. I just don't know how long you'd have to go through it to really, to really feel it. It's almost like a self-improvement camp, but it's like hidden and you know, the pill's hidden

and like all this other stuff. Yeah. But when you do bodybuilding prep, I'd imagine you probably get up pretty early too. Cause it's like, there's a lot to do. Yeah. If I want to bodybuild, I got to stay on top of my other stuff so yeah time management thing becomes a huge huge component of your success have you utilized uh any sort of intermittent fasting or anything like that in your bodybuilding prep yeah yeah so the way i roll with it is like i'll wake up i do my cardio and i'll eat until when i'm hungry when i'm hungry i'll wait until like you know i'm like okay i think i a meal. Um, and the only thing that's kind of a staple is probably the pre-training meal. Cause I think it's the most important meal when you are prepping.

Cause that's what's going to get you through your training. Um, but no, I've, I've done that. I've like my meal frequency can vary from sometimes two meals a day to like, you know, four. So it's somewhere around there. That's unusual for a bodybuilder. Very, very. Yeah.

But you know, I think it's one thing. It's one thing that I've done over time. It's like, let's remove the rules that aren't really doing anything for you. And they're just like another thing on your checklist. Yeah. So we've got it to that point now. So do you think all these different things matter? Like, do we need to have, you know, your, what, 170, 180 pounds? On stage?

What do you weigh now? I'm 190. 190? Damn! Yeah. Breaking the scale. So at 190, like, do you need to have, you know, 180, 190 grams of protein every day? Or, like, do you kind of throw out some of those rules when you're dieting?

The fatter you are, the less your protein needs to go down and the calories go up. Same thing. So right now, you know, I have a comfy amount uh, and I'm eating at least enough every day. So my protein needs probably come down to about a gram, maybe a little bit over, but maybe a little bit under as well. But when I'm prepping, it's like, no, they need to be a little bit higher because. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you need some sort of food too, right? I mean, like, so that's where the vegetables come in. It's like, you know, we can get into big debate about, you know, what the hell vegetables do or don't do for you. But they don't have a whole lot of calories in them.

And so you're not starving and you don't want to kill everybody in sight. Have some damn vegetables and get some fiber in your system, right? Oh, and protein intake too. I think that it helps a lot with behavior. I think honestly for most guys that are just like looking to get rolling, it's like, Hey, stop any protein five times a day. It will automatically change your behavior. My brother's actually obese. My brother's like 350 pounds. It's a big, big dude. And I remember he just wasn't ready for the change, but he's like, what can I do? And I'm like, let me give you something you can thrive off of. Just eat away

protein shake before every meal. And he quit because he's like, it works too well. I can't have my 10 tacos, bro. But yeah, protein is very satiating along with the veggies. I mean, 200 grams of carbs, you and I can pound that away like in 15 minutes. 200 grams of protein. We have to reschedule things after that. That's true. Yeah, you eat 200 grams of protein and you're not doing much after that.

No, but 200 grams of carbs, that sounds like a good time. It does. Yeah, it sounds easy. Especially with some rice, it does. It sounds, yeah, it sounds easy, especially with some rice, get like a little soy sauce going on there or something. Go to Cold Stone, you got your 200 grams of carbs. What about the types of food that you eat in bodybuilding prep?

Does that, that get pretty strict too? Or, or do you, or you just, uh, don't care too much? It does.

It does. Um, it's crazy. Cause when you prep, like I like to think that I have my stuff, but you develop like a transient eating disorder. You know, it's like short lived. I remember eating like a whole package of rice cakes. I'm like, I'm gonna eat this every day when the season's done. It's like, no, I just, now I'm just eating rice. Cause you know, it's, it's easier. Right. Right.

But, um, but yeah, I think the majority of my foods, like obviously like quality is important cause you're not eating enough calories. So like what you should be eating should be, you know, obviously like quality is important because you're not eating enough calories. So like what you should be eating should be, you know, foods that do a little bit more for you than just give you energy. So, you know, and I think a multi is great, but there's always, you know, nature has a purpose, right? So like, you know, there's all these things that are attached to whatever you want in broccoli

that like there's transport systems so that you can use them appropriately. So I think the majority of your foods should be that. But then also what ends up happening, those foods are much more satiating, which is important. Cause like, I swear to you, like 99% of bodybuilders cheat on their diet. No. Yeah. It's, it's crazy. You're, you're just like, no, if you get to know a guy, he'd be like, yeah. So I had three incidences prep. So it minimizes it when you eat foods that are a little bland, high in satiety. And I remember, so the first strict diet, I remember Cheerios was like the one thing that i had that was like kind of moderately tasty i remember tasting those cheerios and i'm like whoa like they taste like fucking fruit loops to me right

it's not crazy yeah so it changes your palate and i think it makes it easier like the dude that's like putting sprinkles and doing the ifym thing i'm like that dude's suffering he's suffering because what happens after you eat that you can do that again whereas like i have one of my more traditional meals it's like okay i'm good oh i'll be okay for two hours or something like that right you know yeah it's hard to like in in your bodybuilding prep it's hard to like fit in anything that really has a lot of flavor because it kind of sends you down the wrong path yeah you know hani know, Hany was even sharing with me, like, uh,

he gave me some greens, which is the supplement that he has, you know, and he's like, I said, how many times a day can I have this? And he's like, we'll just have it like once a day.

And then if like, I don't know, maybe a couple of days later I asked him, can I have it like two or three times a day? Cause I just liked the flavor of it. He's like, no man. He's like,

don't mess with it. He's like, when you, he's like, it's, you're better off, you know, you're going to, you'll be in more control more often and you'll be able to stay on your diet better he's like i know you're a former fat kid so he's like just have it once a

day and i was like oh okay well what happened made sense like after your show you have that first meal and you enjoy it it's cool yeah but it's not nearly as wonderful as it tasted to you when you were eating that routinely no it's crazy how that is right yeah well and then also you're like you're also kind of like thinking like what's all this going to do to me yeah yeah yeah you know and you don't you don't want to end up paying the price sitting on the toilet all day but that's ultimately what happens that is what happens anyways but yeah it's you you can it goes back to behaviors so like whatever you eat like frequently enough it just kind of becomes what you like. Do you run into a lot of people when you're helping them? Do you run into a lot of people who have been, uh, for lack of a better term, just, uh, sorry, mom eating like a pussy

for a long time. Like you've just run into a lot of people that are, they're into this fitness thing. They're, they're into working out and not just, not just women. I don't think a lot of people realize that men have all the same hangupsups about being fat and being heavy that that women do um do you run into a lot of people that just they actually just need more calories oh yeah they just need like more food they're not eating enough so back in our day we used to bulk man like that was the thing but like now like everyone wants to be like aesthetic you know so i remember one time telling my wife i was like i said man i wish my waist was a little bit smaller she's like you sound like a girl she's like you need to just stop she's like why would you have a small waist she's like that's stupid and i was like i guess you're

right i guess it is stupid if you think it's dumb then i'm on board with that the body dysmorphia comes with it right um but yeah yeah you go through instagram and everyone's like lean and throwing back their pictures and you know you feel like but like honestly

I bulked up super heavy at some point I don't know if you know that guess my top weight guess my top weight guess my top weight

what was the heaviest you think I've been 190 now I'll say 240 yeah dude how'd you guess that yeah 240 so I was 240

and it was just because I thought it was what I needed to do to get the job done total waste of time but it was it involved a lot of discipline because I spent a lot of summers being the fat kid. I'm like, wait till I cut. But, but yeah, I think a lot of people, because they want it now, they don't want to go through that transition phase where, you know, you're transitioning.

It's not going to, it's not the end goal. Right. So yeah, that, that is an issue that I have with, I think especially it's like,, if you're not gonna, if you're going to stay natural, it's like, guess what? Like muscle is like sparse. It's like, try to maximize it and you just can look better because even when you're a little fat, when you have muscle, it looks all right. Right. You know, it doesn't like a contours thing.

It holds it up. What do you think, um, like fasting can do for, do for some people? Cause I, you know, I've, I was kind of blown away that, that it was even like a thing. When some people started mentioning fasting, I'm like, this is ridiculous. If you want to be jacked, you got to eat a lot. You need a lot of food. And so I first started to hear about this stuff. I was like, this is garbage.

And I was like, well, okay, it doesn't make sense for me to bash it. I never tried it. So let me try it. And I played around with it. I actually like it. And I'm actually incorporating some more fasting right now.

What are some of your thoughts on it? By no means am I an expert in this, but it goes back to the dopamine thing. We get that from food. If you cut out maybe your first two meals, get rid of your frosted flakes in the morning and you're just kind of focused on your day and what you have to do, that's what becomes your next high. It's like, I got this done. Let me move on to the next. So I think that's where you become occupied in the stuff that you need to get done. You know, like the early part of your day sets the tone for the rest of the day. I, when I, when it's, when my early part of my day is kind of shitty, it kind of carries over into the rest. So I think that's what it does. Cause most people

choose to fast early on in the day. Right. I think that's, that's what it does. It's like, they, they, they're just more useful. They get more done. Right. And if they do have an issue with being food focused, it kind of removes it for a while. Cause it's not an option. If you're fasting, you don't get to eat till like 1 or 2 PM or what have you. It's just, it's okay. You know, out of sight, out of mind, let me go take care of those things that I need to take care of to have a good day. That's what I'm liking about it right now. It's just, I feel like, you know, I have a lot to get done each and every day, just a lot of other people but i got a lot on my plate and i'm like man you know what there's like two or three times during the day where i just kind of get sidetracked

by eating and then uh when i eat i gotta poop the more i eat the more i poop imagine that and uh that that also takes time but it's's also just all the meal prep. I mean, that takes away some time as well. So, you know, now, you know, that I'm messing around with some fasting, I can leave the house. I don't need to, I don't need to try to bring anything with me. I don't need to be like prepared. I know that just when I go home, I'm going to, and the other thing is too, I kind of like to like, I kind of like to overdo it a little bit. So I like to have a bigger meal. I like to get some, you know, do you think that's okay to do with a fasting style of diet?

Yeah, yeah. No, that's one of the perks. You'll pound some food? Yeah. When I'm dieting, it's like, hey, it actually doesn't look like a baby man meal. Yeah, right. It looks okay. But, you know, this is kind of going too far.

I'm going to be like, this dude came stoned in here. But it's just kind of expanding on it too much. Okay, we're high on kratom. My buddies are going to get a kick out of that one. But it kind of goes like, so when humans started to like plant things and like agriculture became a thing, it gave you more time because it used to be like, hey, you know, get out your spear, let's go hunting. And it just gives you time to like, it gave them time to be creative, to develop other

things. And that's when civilization started to flourish. So it happens at a micro level with people, I think, with fasting, you're not, you know, busy looking for your next meal. We're occupied with that. You get shit done. What do you think about like ketones and keto diet? Like the keto diet has kind of kicked off and people are all fired up about that. And, you know, what are some of your thoughts on a ketogenic style diet? Well, I think most people set up their keto diets poorly. You can have so much protein sometimes it knocks you out of ketosis.

So a lot of people, I think, are just on low-carb diets. That's really important to say because most people are not on a true traditional ketogenic diet. That's going to make them produce a large amount of ketones. Yeah. So personally, I feel that it controls calories. So that's the main thing them produce a large amount of ketones. Yeah. Yeah. So personally, I feel that it's, it controls calories. So that's the main thing. It controls calories.

And then a lot of people, when they, you know, they get carbs in there, like their blood sugar gets a little wonky sometimes. Yeah. So I think what it does more than anything, it just creates some sort of stability and it's a super easy to follow system.

I think eventually you might get to the point where it's like maybe interfering with your weight training a little bit and maybe you might sporadically add carbohydrates. But it's not a bad place to start. It's something that

other habits can grow out of that. Right. So if you're talking about like just purely like scientifically speaking, there's maybe things we can do better.

But unfortunately, like people, they're not paper, you know. You have all these other things that come with every individual. And if it's a good place to get started and paper, you know, um, you have all these other things that come with every individual. And if it's a good place to get started and it gets you going, just do it, do it. Right. And I, I think what I've always tried to share with people, even though, you know, I've

liked these low carb diets, uh, for a long time. And that's really, that's really most of what I've experimented with. And I, and I've done ketogenic diets where I'm eating more fat and I'm watching the protein and, and things like that. And I've, I've measured my ketones every day and like all these different things. And I found exactly what you're talking about. I found that when I'm on a ketogenic diet, that when there's the removal of all carbohydrates, uh, pretty much from the diet that my workouts are flat. And I think that we're selling ourselves short thinking that the workout like doesn't matter

that much. The workout is huge. The workout is a huge part of being able to acquire more muscle mass, be able to acquire more strength. And it's a huge part of, you know, us wanting to, uh, to basically just look jacked. Yeah. You're not going to look right if your training ain't right. Yeah.

You got, you gotta be able to, you gotta be able to put in a really good effort. And also we love lifting. Yeah. So you don't want to have, you don't want your workout to be like, eh, you know, you don't want to crap a crap workout. And yeah, of course we do a keto diet for a little while. You can hit some PRS and stuff, but if you start to lose a bunch of weight and you start to get flat, your workouts are going to feel flat and it's, it's not a, not a great place to be. What I've always done is I

have done a low carb style diet, maybe even go a little ketogenic. And then I bring the carbs back in. As soon as I start to feel flat, as soon as I start to kind of feel like, okay, I got rid of the carbs. I developed another new discipline because maybe for a little while, let's say, um, let's say I get off my diet for a while we all we all end up hitting some rough patches here and there right we're all guilty of that and uh you're smashing pancakes every day and eating ice cream before bed and all these things then it's a good idea to say i need to kind of reset myself let me go back to whatever it was that you works for you but for me, I'd always just go low carb. It's always worked well.

And then I'll start bringing those carbs back in because I'm like, my workouts are just worthless. Actually, when I was a teen, it was the first diet that I used to get cut because it was super clear and comprehensive. And people like that. They don't like things that are overly, you can overload them. So I think they're simple.

You get some good results because you're removing calories from a whole food group initially. So you will get fat loss. But the cyclical thing, the cyclical ketogenic diet, I think it gets sophisticated. I think at this point, you have it down to the point where you can feel when you need it. Most people probably need something that's more like set in stone and they learn from there. But cyclical ketogenic diets, if you're going to do it and you lift weights, it's probably the best way to go about it. From your experience, what feels best to you to eat carbs on a non-training day or on a training day? Oh, so this was, I think a huge difference maker from this last prep. Um, because when you

think about weightlifting or not even eat carbs, I should say, but just, I guess eat more, you know, on a non-training day or training day, you know. Yeah, yeah. Carbs could be higher or lower, whatever. My high carb days, last prep, were on an off day. Because it's not what you had for breakfast that day that powers up, but, like, what you did the many days prior. Because that's how those energy systems, it's like, what do you have stored already? systems. It's like, what do you have stored already? It's kind of that old school mentality of, you know, back in the day when, uh, you know, the high school football team would meet up on

like Friday or Thursday night and, uh, have a big pasta dinner. And then the next night they'd play football. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's exactly what it felt. Cause like what's most expensive about lifting weights is the recovery aspect. Like you can, it's not one meal that gets you recovered. That's why the whole post-workout thing never made sense. Cause it's like, yeah, so I'm gonna have this whey protein shake and my rice, and now I'm going to be like recovered. It's like one meal that gets you recovered. That's why the whole post-workout thing never made sense because it's like, so I'm going to have this whey protein shake and my rice, and now I'm going to be, like, recovered. It's like, no. It's fine. No, you can't.

Go train. Go train right now. See if it worked. It takes, like, many meals, many hours of sleep, many days if you're actually training hard. So to give yourself, like, a few days where you eat more food and you back off the training, I think it's a great way of doing things. You could have at least one day like that when you're going through a fat loss phase and don't get bugged out by the scale, cause it's going to jump up. It's going to give you better results. Now, would that be like,

you can have at it and you can eat or you want to still keep it clean? So this last diet, I mean, this is like my fifth contest prep. So I kind of like you, it's like, I kind of know how to go by feel. But I think initially to start, you should probably have some sort of system because most people don't know what they're looking for. You know, you're going to get reckless. Yeah. Yeah. So I think initially the more you need more structures, you start out and then like, you know, over time you can kind of wing it because that is once you become in tune with that.

I think that's one of the best things you can do as an advanced athlete. It's like just kind of one of the benefits that you do have is that you understand, you actually know what your body's telling you as opposed to like what you want to hear. It's a really weird thing when you like go through a process and you're like, oh man, I should have had like 50 more carbs. Somebody would be like, what? Like what the hell are you talking about? Yeah. Or a certain feeling you get. Like, I get certain feelings from lifting.

I thought yesterday was really productive. We did some bench stuff and we were just benching for like two hours straight, three hours straight, whatever it was. But I just thought it was really productive. I could like almost feel myself get stronger. I'm like, that's the kind of workout that I needed right now. Like, that felt really good. I think a lot of times when someone's newer, like maybe they're not feeling feeling that maybe they're kind of like frustrated or it didn't feel right to them or or whatever but they're not in tune with how it should really actually feel i think this kind of

bounces off that but like i think you know stress is stress is stress is that's how your body like it just that's how like whether it's like you know discussion with with the wife or or a you know a huge squat day like your body kind of sees it in the same manner to some extent um that's one thing that i've i've worked on a lot is just managing my stress you know it doesn't mean my life is any less stressful but i kind of know where that cusp is at right you know and like sometimes just like food i can go back i'm like fuck you know what today is it's that tuesday I had, like, it's, it's that little window, that four hour window of chaos is like, and it's, I think to some people, it sounds like a puss move. It's like, you know, like, you know,

real lifters just go in there and just get it done. It's like, yeah, you can, you can do that every once in a while, but like long-term, like you need to have all those things structured and organized as well. And is your training, uh, structured pretty good too? Do you try to like, uh, especially when you're in contest prep, you try to lift around the same time every day and like kind of have like a schedule going. Yeah. It just gets earlier and earlier. Cause you know what your energy does, right? It, it, it starts to dwindle as the day goes on. That's probably the only thing, but yeah, in terms of, and that's, that's where the rest of my life kind of benefits from it because you know, if I want to fit the bodybuilding thing and I have to take care of all my other responsibilities. So yeah,

I just become very militant about things without knowing too. That's the awesome part. Yeah. For me, I like the intermittent fasting quite a bit just cause like, I like to kind of shotgun the first part of that day and by two or three, you know, if there's other business stuff to do, if I still need to email or text or whatever, I just don't mind doing that stuff. But that's a time to get home, chill with the family. My kids are getting home from school. We're cooking up dinner. And it's just, that's the way I kind of like to live my life.

It works really well for me. But I like what you're saying too, about how it's, it's a big mistake people are making. They're, they're putting their lifting first, which is fine because if, if that's what makes you happy, then that's wise to put it first. Cause then you feel good and then you can help other people around you and stuff, but it doesn't mean that everything else needs to be on hold. I think that's a ridiculous concept.

Um, now if you're trying to be the next, like Jay Cutler and you're, you know, you're, and there's going to be some sacrifices that are going to be made. If you're trying to be the greatest at something, there's going to be some things, but still you can, you can build things simultaneously as you're going for something else. When I, you know, I just talked to my brother about this the other day on the phone, he and I had been talking a lot about, uh, some of these different things. And he, his friend, a buddy of mine, uh, is, is a real big guy. He's probably like 315 pounds, tons of muscle on him though, too. He's big, he's a, he's big and strong, but he's also big and fat. And, uh,

my brother's like, man, he's like, he's like, you gotta, you know, he was out there on his phone, you know, and my brother's teasing me like, you gotta get your ass in the gym, man. He's like, oh, I'm so busy with business now. You know, it's hard for me to get in shape. And my brother's like, my brother's business is going pretty good and he's in pretty good shape. And he said, he said his buddy just, or our buddy just rolled the window up and then took off down the street. He's like, he's kind of like, you know, fuck off type thing. But you know, I, you know, I'll toot my own horn. If you know, you think about like when I was in the middle of my powerlifting career, I had both my children, they're both really, really young. I'm building up super training

gym. I'm building up thousand 80 squats and 800 plus pound benches. And I'm building all these things up. And I'm also creating a slingshot and bringing power pound benches. And I'm building all these things up. And I'm also creating a slingshot and bringing power magazine to life. And I didn't have as many employees as I have now. And thank, I'm very thankful and grateful that I have a good support system with, with my wife and with my parents and stuff like that. And my, my wife did, you know, the job of, of, of eight or 10 people that now without now work here is pretty crazy to think of but you can get it all done you can strive you can strive for these things you can it's not it's not all literally happening happening at the exact same time this is over

a period of like a this is a 12 year span that this took the power lifting portion of it was about three to five years yeah people probably just think it's longer but i have been powerlifting since i was a kid but the three to five years that i was worth a shit in it uh it was that's pretty short period of time three to five years not not very long you know and so as you're striving to be a better bodybuilder it doesn't mean uh that you you don't need to have a job. It doesn't mean that you can't have a relationship. It doesn't mean that you can't have these other obligations. Well, the whole idea of balance, like you've touched on this before, but it's

like, if you're going to be really, you're going to have to be off balance. Yeah. I'm sorry. But you know, just kind of like the weights on your lifts go up. But you can kind of recalibrate, you know, you can, you can kind of bring it back. You can be like, boom, bodybuilding. Okay, you know, back to the girlfriend. Okay, powerlifting. Boom, back to, right? Well, and as your capacity goes up in other things, like this thing might be third on your priority list,

but you do it better now. Right. Because you've increased your capacity to do shit across everything else. You're more efficient at it too. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, balance is something that if you're going to do great things,

it's, you're gonna have to go through some segments in your life. When, you know, I remember when we first started going as a company, um, man, no days off for like two years,

no days off. Like I got myself a TV and I'm like, you're going to watch football on Sundays because you, you need this at this point in order to be effective. But I was so off balance and like, luckily I had, you know, good people around me that, you you know saw the vision and knew what i was going for but man like to say i was balanced no way but like along with that i kept up with other things

and as my capacity grew and on that end like i was just like this might be fifth on the priority list but i'm pretty fucking good at it because you know I go right for it right you've been dedicated to it for a long time you got something Andrew yeah I was just because uh you had touched on it just barely in the beginning of the show um you said you wanted to be strong one more time what's that mean um I will just like a few there's a few you know weird PRs that you have in your head as a bodybuilder um I haven't squatted over 500 pounds since i was like 21 i think 21 22 uh beltless too high bar damn yeah leverages though um but now i got all these like small injuries and i'm like you know what eventually they'll really get in the way so i feel i'm gonna bulk

up one more time to a decent weight and try to get some of those some of those in um hey performances it's like why would you go to the gym and only get jacked? Like, that makes no sense to me. And it's kind of like the power lifter that's like, okay, I understand that you need weight on your side, but at the same time, it's like, this is a middle ground. You probably perform better when you get to that middle ground.

Same thing as a bodybuilder. You add a little strength, you'll see all your other work go up too. So yeah, I want to be strong one more time. I can't compete in the USA, like at some point, my last meet going to the USAPL, remember doing my math in my head, I'm like, if I get all my lifts, I can come be strong one more time. I can't compete in the USA. Like, at some point, my last meet going to the USAPL, I remember doing my math in my head. I'm like, if I get all my lifts, I can come in fourth or fifth.

Now it's like, just have me someone in the middle of the pack and let's improve on that. So I don't know about powerlifting, but at some point, yeah, I'd like to get a few big lifts that matter to me. Super arbitrary lifts, yeah. Yeah. Marks, he's pretty much a master at helping people lose weight because he says, I've been fat before and I'm not anymore. So I've been there. I can kind of

coach you how to get down here now. You've been skinny. I'm a super skinny dude. How do skinny people get big? Fuck, there's just genetic caps i think that's one thing but like if you know thyself like you can you know what your situation is and yeah and you work with that like i'll never look like in semen shirt um like i understand it's because you're natural that's right hey the first time so i remember i was telling that's a big dude man i remember eric er Helms, my colleague. Fucking hamstrings and shit, he's huge. Yeah.

He was like, are you sure? And I'm like, because, you know, there's a look, right? Oh, yeah. So you look at Encima and it's like, you're huge, but there's a look that's like, yeah, I can see it. You have to be around long enough to know the look. I can't even describe it to people. Even if you're doing a little bit, there's a look. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, even if you're just to touch somebody, like if you grab a hold of Encima, it's not like he's soft. I mean, he's a solid guy. Yeah. But he, he also doesn't feel, uh, like, like the monolith, you know, he doesn't feel, he doesn't feel like he's made out of steel. Like there's some like, uh, suppleness to him.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Supple breasts. But yeah, no, they were questioning. I'm like, I'm trust me. This is a good kid. And I think he, he wouldn't lie to me and just freak of nature.

But yeah, I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. So I think that I learned to train before I learned to diet. Cause I think I had to come in that order that I'd always at least look. All right. You know, if I just lifted weight.

So I focus way more on that and super training. I remember that was like my first book. I tried to read it a few times no that book's crazy that book's crazy but i want to learn as much as i could about training and like that's where i focused on yeah for the longest time so what style of diet for a skinnier guy oh he's just good yeah well i'm gonna take advantage you gotta find those calories you gotta find those calories and i think sometimes for skinny guys they don't like to gain the weight because again, that transitional phase, you don't look so good because you know, you put 30 pounds on him.

Like it still looks all right. He still looks like he flips, you know, where it's like 30 pounds on some skinny guy that's making, it's not going to look right. And I think that's where guys turn back. They're like, no, I'm going to go back to, you know, my labs and stuff. Cause yeah. You think for somebody like him, he'd be better off, like, working on getting leaner first and kind of seeing what that looks like?

Or do you think he'd be better off in bulking? And then, because he's, I don't think you've ever been, like, shredded either, right? No. No, I've always been, like, just a little belly and then skinny everywhere else. Because, hey, we've been clowning on the fat power lifters, but you know what? They look like, they call themselves fat, belly and then skinny everywhere else because hey we've been clowning on the fat power lifters but

you know what they look like they call themselves fat but at the same time it's like you don't look bad you have a look to you you know so i think that's the issue with most people when they start to start weight training like you see this in gyms everywhere they start off with the fat loss and the lifting weights it's like hey just lift weight it's going to change your body more than anything else just lifting weights so i would go straight for the gaining phase and just be patient with it. Don't bail out. That's kind of what Mark's having me do. I mean, right now he has me on a low-carb diet.

But for the most part, I mean, what really opened my eyes because we were – because I was doing a similar diet when he was doing the bodybuilding show. And I was like, ooh, I'm finally getting a flat stomach. We were training every day, so I was getting size while still like leaning out and i was i just i told him like dude i've never had a six-pack and i feel like i'm close like let me keep going and he's like he's like if you drop like you know five more pounds you're just gonna be skinny yeah like but if we add you know like 10 to 15, you're going to look good. I was like, all right, that makes sense. Let's just go ahead and eat up then.

And that's the trap because, you know, losing fat is faster than gaining muscle. And for you, it's like I can do that really well because my body likes to be skinny. Exactly. But the other way, it might take, you know, six months or so, but there's more for you. They're long-term for sure. For sure. Most of my base was built, I think, honestly, the first like two, three years. Cool.

Yeah. A lot of this can be super frustrating. It's the same thing with getting stronger. I kind of reestablished a goal for myself, and I don't know where I'll sit with it. I'll be able to judge a lot better as I get closer to it, but I'd like to bench over 500 pounds at 220. Right now I'm about 240. So not only do I have to gain strength, but I'd like to bench over 500 pounds at 220 right now i'm about 240 so not only do i have to gain strength but i gotta lose weight right so at first i was like well you know maybe i

can get this done in like march or april and then now i'm kind of rethinking it i'm like you know what i always encourage people like just compete like hit the platform so now i'm like i'll compete in january i'll it's just this is just bench i'll just i'll just bench and like whatever i bench i bench that's fine yeah i'm not going to even if the 500 is close and and i and i looks like i'm in striking distance and i'll i'll kind of go for it but as i was explaining to somebody the other day i was telling them like you know more like, more like April or something sounds like a lot more reasonable because you're going to kind of bring your strength up

and then it's going to kind of dip back down and you're going to bring it back up. You're going to kind of go up and down a bunch because you're going to go through these different training phases. You're going to do sets of six and sets of eight and sets of four and doing, you know, things like eight sets of six reps or eight sets of four of four and doing, you know, things like eight sets of six reps or eight sets of four reps. That's where you're really like kind of building your strength, but you're not really testing it, but all that takes a long time. And, you know, there's many different ways of doing it. People have, you know, there's tons of ways of doing all this, but it just takes, it takes time and you can't fast forward it. You can't tinker with it in any other

way. It's going to take time. So if you're somebody that's listening to the podcast right now time and you can't fast forward it you can't tinker with it in any other way it's going to take time so if you're somebody that's listening to the podcast right now and you want to be leaner you want to be heavier these these processes they just take they take time yeah that's that's the bad news right but you know at the same time um that's probably what got me in the most trouble early on was just like not being a patient enough lifter one thing I like to tell people is that like hey you know one set can one rep actually can't can't make you but it can break you yeah you know and that's true that's that's probably the one thing when you look at an athlete's like timeline it's not like you know it's not programming issues it's not like getting off the diet here and there that

like holds people back but it's like injury right that's probably the biggest thing that stops people from reaching their full potential show me a guy that like whatever whether it be like in terms of body comp or or or strength gains has been slow and steady and has had like less of those deviations because they're disabled in some way right that's the person that's like sneaky yeah you want to kind of train yourself like you're training, like your mom or something or your girlfriend or something, you know, you want to be really cautious. Like, like, of course you got to go for it here and there, and there's time and place and there's, there's other things you can kind of go for it on, like go for it on the

tricep pushdown, you know, have at it over there and then do, you know, crazy drop set or whatever. But when you're benching, squatting, deadlifting, and doing some of these main exercises, that's not a great time to like really roll the dice unless you've been training, unless you've been training for it. If you're prepared for it, that's different. Then you can go for it.

Someone can totally take what you said and just make it a quote, like train yourself like your mom. But in the context of it, it's, it's, it's, I think what you're saying is like, you've got to be objective with yourself. You got to, you know, the more you can guide yourself think what you're saying is you've got to be objective with yourself. The more you can guide yourself the way you would guide someone else, the more successful you're going to be. So it's like learning to be less emotional when it comes to your decision making.

Yeah, you almost think about it like it's your job in a way. Like this is my job. I'm obligated to help this person get better. In this case, it just happens to be you. And you shouldn't really be missing lifts. You shouldn't be getting hurt. You shouldn't be in a lot of pain. You know, you're going to get dinged up here and there.

But if you're chronically in tons and tons of pain, then you have to kind of reevaluate. You're like, okay, maybe I'm doing this, you know, a little, maybe I'm going about the wrong way, or maybe I need to wait a few more weeks to put in that much amount of work or whatever. You got to kind of, you can't be stupid with it and just keep doing the same old thing. Yeah. No, but injuries, injuries, man. It's, um, like I'm bodybuilding.

It's like the mental injuries. That's what it is. Like people just get like these eating disorders out the yang, man. Oh man. And with powerlifting, it's like, yeah, you guys are actual athletes. That's what hurts but with us it's like the mental injuries mostly because people try to subscribe to like diets that they're just not ready to handle right now that's what about coming off of a show that can be a real right that can really be brutal right someone gains 20 pounds 30

pounds and uh maybe you know maybe they get a shitty comment from somebody. I mean, it can be demoralizing. Yeah, yeah. One thing that we've been trying to push a little bit more is having a recovery phase when it comes to the coming out of a contest. Because you're dinged up, man, in many ways. The whole system's dinged up. Yeah.

When you look at what is actual overtraining and you look at the symptoms of, especially, I think, in drug-free bodybuilders, like they just suck for like three months, you know, like what does that classify under? Like when you look at all the symptoms, right. You know, of like, like not wanting to go to the gym, you know, like maybe mild depression, you know, um, maybe a severe depression. It does happen. It does happen, but it's yeah. So that post-show like phase, it should be dedicated to recovering first.

I know you're pumped up and you want to get back to work, but it's like recover first. And then you'll be in a position where you can actually like hurt somebody. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to be patient with it all. You know, it's hard to realize that like, you know, three months of kind of reversing your way out of a bodybuilding show. Something like three, man, three months. Like, shit, man.

I don't want to wait that long. Well, it might take you three months to kind of recover from the show. And then it might take you another three months to prep for the next show. Oh, tell me about this one, though, because the body dysmorphia thing, man. That's for real. It's like when you're done with your show and you look at yourself, never looked like this before. Right.

Like getting away from that. Like that's such a, like you just feel like you're regressing with every, you're used to improving every week and now it's like the other side. Right. Um, and this is where I think for bodybuilders, like my buddy Ryan Doris said this for the first time,

first time I heard this, but like you can't be wearing your muscles like accessories. Like you got to look at them like you're an athlete, you know, like, right. You know, like a, a pitcher's not in the Starbucks line. this, but like, you can't be wearing your muscles like accessories. Like, you gotta look at them like you're an athlete. You know, like, you know, like a pitcher's not in the Starbucks line

like thinking about like, how's my, you know, fastball look. You know, it's, they're different things, but nevertheless,

the more I look at myself as like, these are just tools, these are attributes specific for the sport and my self-esteem doesn't come from like the way I look,

but more so what I did to get the look. I think that's why a lot of people get out of competing. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of people that get out of competing, but they still look fantastic. And, uh, you know, a lot of times it's because of that. They're like, yeah, I kind of stopped because, you know, I hated like, you know, getting to, you know, 5% body fat and then, you know, two weeks later being 10.

So I, I just live my life at eight to ten percent body fat all the time and i actually feel better yeah no that's my plan when i'm done i'm just gonna look like pretty good all the time because no it is like even now even now that i know better like when i'm coming out of show i'm like i look awful i haven't looked this bad in like months basically uh you know jake cutler had a saying when he was on our show and it's like, it's a real kick in the nuts. But, uh, he says, be, you know,

uh, don't be fancy, be consistent. Yeah. It's like, man, it sounds so much better to be fancy though. Yeah.

Yeah. Sounds so much more appetizing to like, you know, uh, have these weird, these weird diets and to do all these weird, crazy things and to manipulate things all these weird ways. But Jake Cutler was a guy who woke up every morning.

He did his 45 minutes of cardio. He had his oatmeal and egg whites just every day. I appreciate that now. Yeah. You're never going to catch Ronnie Coleman. Eventually, he ended up beating him. To me, it was like Ronnie and Jay. Ronnie was just like the man.

And I'm like, dude, you're so missionary style. Yeah. But look at him now and just he did pretty well i'd say yeah so amazing yeah you end up winning four four mr olympias and even came back from a bad injury and stuff like that i mean it's just but that that's what's gonna have you uh out in front is is can is figuring out a way you know how first of all how do you string together some form of consistency? Yeah. Then once you get there,

how the hell do you hold on to it? Yeah. And his process was not sexy at all, but boy, was it effective. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That dude. What do you do for those pipes over there? That's actually the one thing I got to work on is my arms. Yeah. Cause you used to watch in power lift arms, you know, like, so that's what happened to Lane Norton when he decided to power lift.

Yeah. Remember the, he was deep into it and I'm like dude you have like basketball player arms spend all your time training those lifts you don't have time to you know or the will to do it right um but no arms are my thing i need to improve on uh my legs are the only thing that kind of worth the damn to be honest um and i think it's just because i enjoy the big core lifts like that's the one thing when you got up on that stage you had the hamstrings bro like you see a lot of bodybuilders up there they won't do that stuff and they look like leg extension waters like their trunks are all like saggy in the back right you know so so i think my physique kind of reflects

the way i like to train and i was really influenced by by strength athletes early on yeah when i went and uh i was lucky enough to have uh charles glass uh kind of check out some of my posing and stuff and he was like he's like holy crap he's like you got hamstrings yeah a lot of times you guys don't have hamstrings he's like which doesn't sound right because you deadlift and things like that but he's like a lot of times you guys don't have hamstrings i'm like man i've been paying attention man i've been i've been training I've been training. I've been trying to train everything, you know, my whole life pretty much.

And the hardest thing for me was, was my arms because I did have some tears and stuff. And so, and then lack, lack of mobility, you know, you don't realize that like having, having some mobility

up on stage to be able to hit some of those poses properly actually makes a big difference. Oh, that's, that's my hardest part. I don't like to pose in the off season because it's just it hurts and it's not very flattering um but yeah when you get up to like getting into all those like it's it's hard man um but no you your hamstrings are i think a lot of it comes from like uh correct me if i'm wrong but i think a lot of the because you did the geared power lifting and the posterior chain is so important for that stuff.

Like, you guys do a ton of work with that, so it shows. Yeah, it was like reverse hyperextensions, and the glute ham raise a lot, and, you know, the box squats. Yeah, yeah. You know, handling, you know, all those big weights that I did, I think, ended up making a big difference. Ended up showing up on game day, which was important. And I feel like the muscles you prioritize early just kind of stay with you your whole

life. Yeah. You know? Like, especially, like, when you're younger, like the first things that like get the biggest boost, like they just kind of tend to stick partially genetic. But I also feel that that plays a big role in that. You got to be kind of on point with it. You know quite a bit about reverse dieting. So, you know, when you diet down for a show or these people that are just, you know,

forever locked into fitness and they're not eating anything and they're kind of overdoing it all the time um what's this principle of reverse dieting what is this about so we countered that recently with uh what is coined the recovery diet um and that's just because it was taking people too long to feel right post-show you know know, mentally and physically. So what we started to do is, and we have a video on this on YouTube, it's called the recovery diet. And, uh, we encourage people, uh, see if I get these numbers right.

So the first, these are generic recommendations. The first four to six weeks, you gain back a five to 10% of your body weight. And what this does is this, I think most people feel like they're doing it wrong if they do it right because you you put on this fat like immediately but you need that to look right because a lot of people they'll come out of the show and they're like yeah i think i'm a i was too fat in my off season and i think i'm gonna stay like this no one ever stays like that you know you end up more or less where where you started maybe a bit more reasonable but you do everybody always thinks you're gonna stay in that shape shape. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like,

no, it doesn't work. I've yet to see it happen. So, um, we encourage people to get to five to 10% above contest weight. And when you look at that, it's like, remember what, how excited you were on the way down when you got to that point and how good you thought you looked, but it's just because, you know, mentally you're so plagued with, you've seen yourself in the ultimate shape that, right. That looks bad now, but you were excited on the way down. So we encourage people to get to that point. So the biggest surplus that people see post-show in their off season is actually immediately after the show. And then we get them in something more sustainable. And I think it helps people start improving faster. Um, and a lot of the slip-ups that you see post-show with people,

they, they, they're minimized because they're eating more than enough every day. So you're almost saying like, like get that weight on, you know, at a reasonable pace, but like get that weight back on because it's going to come anyway. It is. And if we do it like too slowly, then maybe we're kind of just drawing out the process. But if you slap on five to 10%, let's just say you slapped on 5% of your body weight, you gain some of that weight back. Then maybe your body can start to, the faster you do that, the faster your body can start acting normal again. Exactly. Is that about right? Yeah. Yeah. Your body and your mind, obviously. So that's something we, we kind of made an about face on. Like I used to like bring people up super slowly post-show. And if you're out there, I apologize if I've done that to you.

Well, you're learning, right? You learn, you learn, you learn from working with these people and it's great that you're making adjustments to it. So yeah, that was, that was a big one. That was a huge one. So that's how we do things now post-show. It was my first time ever doing it after this contest season. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was a little uncomfortable, even though I had guided people through that process, doing it on myself, I'm like, you're about to blow up to 190 in three weeks in front of everyone. You're going to blow. But it worked out. It's going to get huge.

I'm not going to do it any other way now. It's always post-show, like bring training down even a little bit. Andrew, ask this guy some marijuana questions. Oh, man. I think it's his favorite topic. It is? How do people, like, I'm How do people assume, but how do they know? Do I give that vibe?

It's the hair, bro. I was going to say it's the hair. I'll be right back. But no, Mark's joking, but you were saying that your friend's going to get a kick out of Kratom. What's that all about? Oh, no. I started to use that on my Fridays maybe about a year ago. Oh, really? Yeah, so it's like my that on my fridays uh maybe a year ago yeah so

it's like my end of the week treat to have a weekend possibly because uh yeah it just i think sometimes just taking something ends up being part of your routine and you're like okay when i take this it's just it's time to when i have a coffee it's time to it's time to work so to speak yeah with with that that's kind of what it's been. I would not recommend it for people who are like have personalities that are addicted to something. And like one day a week turns into like three days a week. But that's like with everything else. And I'm pretty good at that. You can handle it.

Yeah. Yeah. Which makes no sense. But like, you know, bodybuilders usually are not very good at that stuff. You know how it is. You start with 200 milligrams of caffeine. Right. And then all of a sudden you're taking the whole pre-workout time

hitting a gram a day yeah so so yeah i think like anything else moderate yeah um somebody his name is anthony on the live chat had asked us uh to simplify his question um how can we better like um have better absorption of the calories we're trying to take in. So like for someone like me, like if I just like, okay, tomorrow or whatever, like from now till next week, I'm going to every day try to up my calories. How can I make sure that I'm not just wasting them? Okay. So we're talking about like gaining weight. Yeah.

I think people don't sit on an intake long enough to determine what it's doing. I think for gaining, you got to wait three or four weeks before you can say this is doing this. It's kind of like program hopping. People do calorie hopping all the time. So digestion, your body's really good at that. Our human body's like great at getting fat. So it's going to take care of all that stuff.

The only digestive stuff that I see that can be a problem for some people is sometimes bodybuilders try to eat foods that are way too clean especially when their calories are really high it's like have some rice dude you know like get some stuff that's easy um that and and maybe you're eating things that you're semi-allergic to because you feel like you have to because it's part of the cultural aspect of bodybuilding but but no sit on your intake like whatever you decide kind of like your program hey wait on it like don't don't don't don't say it's guilty of like not working like you know a week into it like wait a little bit yeah and that's tough for me because i mean we

talk about it on this show all the time like i poop so much one of my favorite sayings is is um and uh actually my uh my friend joey flex who is sick powerlifting coach um i love that dude shout out to joey but uh what's up joey i know joey flex that dude is talk about just a blue collar dude that just knows how to make people strong um is is the whole uh saying is like stay in the pocket you know stay in the pocket you know like your payout will be bigger if you just like all this stuff's going on but don't be distracted stay in the pocket, you know, stay in the pocket, you know, like your payout will be bigger if you just like all this stuff's going on, but don't be distracted. Stay in the pocket.

Don't make a change. So sometimes the best change, the change that you don't make. Makes sense. That's hard to do. Yeah. That's why it makes sense. Cause it's usually, it's the hardest thing to do is to be patient.

Yeah. You know what you just told me earlier, just be a little more patient. Oh, happy feet, man. People get them. Yeah.

I know, but I want to be so big and strong. And jacked. Yeah, it does. It does take a long, it takes a long time to acquire any sort of size, right? I heard you guys, you know, kicking it about Kratom

as I had to run off and pee because I'm fasting. And when I fast, I just, the whole morning, I just pee my brains out a lot of times, especially like last night I had some carbs and stuff too.

So it makes it even worse. I'm like, that's flushing out of my system. So I'm just peeing nonstop. But you guys were kicking it about Kratom a little bit, and I know that you like to smoke a little bit. What is the smoking, what does it do for you? With me, it's just sleep. I don't even really use it to party. Helps you snooze.

Yeah. I'll see a good movie, you know, and I'll do that. Helps you chill and relax. But I like to be, with certain things, I like to be a lightweight with, you know? Yeah. It's way more fun when it's that way. So, same thing with the Kratom. I was telling him it was like my Friday treat.

Whenever I need to close in the week to get in all my major work in so that i can have a weekend of some sort like that's that's part of my routine so today's not friday no i got so much you got peer pressured into it but i said yes i'm like what is that i can smell it from here but but yeah no when it comes to anything honestly most people ask me about like like alcohol marijuana kratom i'm like i to anything, honestly, most people ask me about like, like alcohol, marijuana, kratom. I'm like, I don't recommend it because most people don't know how to handle their stuff. That's, we're, we're, we're bad. Like most people can't even handle pre-workout.

We talked about that. Right. Starts with 200 milligrams and they're using 600 just to, you know, go have an arm day. Well, people lose control. And that's why, like the, the old idea of flexible dieting where, you know, people are always talking about these pop tarts. It's like, well that, that, that might be okay. And it might fit into someone's plan that you write it down and you got the calories

accounted for. Yeah, we get it. But that might just lead to you being out of control. Most people can't handle it. That's, that's, you gotta know what you can't handle. That's so, that's okay. And if you look at like a low carb diet, cheating on a really low carb diet would be eating a big old plate full of carbs, right? Cheating on something like flexible dieting would be the overconsumption of calories.

And you would have to pick which one would be harder for you, but you do need to pick one. You're going to have to restrict something. And self-inflicted restriction is so hard. When it comes to marijuana usage, when it comes to carbohydrates, it's hard. I'm just going to have one drink. That's my problem. I'm not lightweight when it comes to the beer. But everything else, I'm not an alcoholic by any means, but I handle really well and I think that's been a key to me doing okay when it comes to extracurriculars, so to speak.

Well, the dedication with lifting can help teach you that. The dedication, the manipulation of the diet, the dedication, the manipulation of the cardio training. All these things are things that can play into you looking at other situations and trying to rationalize them. You know, I'm getting ready for a bodybuilding show and I'm 12 weeks out. So I'm going to do 20 minutes of cardio three times a week. Yeah. Sounds reasonable. Yeah.

And then you're going to add more as it gets closer, you know? Um, all right. I'm in the off season and, uh, I'm going to drink a little bit here and there. I'm going to not even worry about diet on the weekend at all. I'm just going to like sleep in and like, just not worry about it. And just, you can make a more reasonable assessment of like what the hell's going on in your life when you, uh, make yourself so dedicated because ultimately what we're working on is we're working on ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what this all comes down to.

It's not even about lifting weights, man. It is, but it isn't. That's what I always say. Which is so strange. Yeah, it's so strange. I thought it was about lifting weights for the longest time. And the longer you do it and you get good at it, that's when you realize it's not just about this.

It kind of reminds me of that scene in the the uh uh in the matrix you know the key the key is that there is no ball or whatever it is he's trying to make like float or whatever right yeah and that's that's the key here is that it's it's it could be anything else yeah you know it just happens to be lifting weights but we could be talking about a dedication to uh skiing dancing whatever the hell it might be and i think think per capita, like our population of like true, true like meatheads have done it for a minute. Like I think there's this stereotype that, you know, we're this way and that's all we do.

And it's like, it couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. Like I've met some of the most brilliant, hardworking, get shit done people who contribute that happen to lift weights. Like Stan's a crazy example. I'm wondering about staff on the stand. I'm like, Whoa, like really? And you did the power lifting and you did the IFB. It doesn't surprise me when I look at his resume.

Yeah. He's a freak. Yeah. And all the information he's sharing now with his, uh, vertical dietness. Have you, have you looked into any of that? It's a great habit building. Uh, yeah, no, I'm, I've, I've, uh, I think a lot any of that? It's a great habit building. Uh, yeah, no, I'm, I've, I've, uh, I think a lot of people don't know why it works, but like, it doesn't

matter. Does it really matter if it works? Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's just, you know, he's just basing his diet around the nutrients that the body needs. So it's, you know, it's no surprise that it works. You start to, you start to kind of, you know, a lot of people were looking at the macronutrients. He's looking a little bit more at the micronutrients. And, and again, it's like, you start to break it down and, uh, okay, we're going to eat like lean red meats and we're going to have, uh, some berries and carrots and these other, we're still, we're still controlling calories, you know? Uh, but you, one thing I find refreshing about what he has done and I'm sure other people have done in the past, but he doesn't look at cheese as like protein and fat necessarily. He doesn't just limit it to that. He's like, that's your calcium

source for the day. And I was like, man, that's kind of a cool way to look at food. You know, is, is that this is, this is, uh, this is productive for, more than it just being calories. This is really productive. This is things that my body needs. Because I think when we think about calories or if we think about, there's kind of a stigma around fat, but we think about like calories,

we're kind of thinking that it's like doing something negative to us, even though we fully know we need energy. Like we know that we need energy, but at the same time you look at it and you're like, oh man, it's kind of just making me fatter yeah but now if you got someone saying no look you know we need these omega-3s need your vitamin c you need your vitamin b your vitamin d like this is really nutritious for you this is going to help not only not only was help you with your

aesthetics but this is going to help you with your performance and i mean all the initial diets that i followed i mean yeah i was like very focused on training and not so much the nutritional side of things they were all super easy to follow comprehensive systems that I was able to build upon from there yeah but what I didn't need to do is like sit there and like think sometimes I just needed to replace a lot of again the behaviors and I think that's what diets like that diets like the the ketogenics, sometimes for people, the macronating thing, you know, does that for them. Yeah.

But you need to learn a little something, follow something, commit to something. And then once you've committed to something long enough, then you can like change and adjust. But that's the biggest thing is people just want to hop from one hype to the next hype.

And it's like, no, you just need to, I've done some shitty things in terms of like my decision when it comes to lifting, when it comes to eating. But I stuck to them and I worked really hard under those guidelines. And that gets you pretty darn far. How did you get into bodybuilding in the first place? What happened? What happened? That's what I'm asking you.

I started lifting. What happened, bro? Weights because it was cool cool and i liked the way it made me feel and it wasn't until i wanted to run uh track in college i wanted to do that my coach really got in me he's like hey if you really commit to this you can do pretty pretty well you could at least get some free college somewhere so but i kept having a foot my left foot kept busting up on me i kept dealing with these stress fractures. So it was the first time prior to that, I was like combining sports and lifting weights. I'd make gains and then lose them, make gains and then lose them.

And I gave myself a full year to just lift weights and I never came back. And then I saw Lane Norton prep online and I'm like, this is pretty cool. Cause he started 10, 20 weeks out. And then he just, he's like, I'm gonna be in shape in 20 weeks. I'm like, no no you can't do that you can't like make it happen like that and i saw that happen i'm like that is pretty awesome and i want to do that and i want the freak look so that's what got me going and it's just it's just i love that the process i love the creating a goal crush it creating a goal crush it and that's that's what

got me hooked on bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is really crazy. When you look at someone and they say that they're going to do something and get in shape and get on stage, you're like, no, you ain't. You ain't going to do that. Like, that's too hard, man. You're not going to be. What are you talking about? You're going to go from, you know, 15% body fat down to five or six or whatever. It's like, how's that going to happen?

Every time I start a prep, I'm scared a little shitless because I'm like, do I still have this in me? Do I still have that gear? And it's crazy. Once you're deep into it, it's like that's all you know. That's all you know. And I'm addicted to that feeling. One thing I think is really interesting about weight loss,

I've dropped weight a bunch of different times in my lifetime, and it's interesting how that beginning part of it, you're right away. You're like, oh yeah, I still got it. And you drop, you know, you drop 10, but then it's still always hard to kind of really keep it, keep it moving. It's hard to, you know, keep that momentum when you're doing bodybuilding and you're getting in shape for these shows. Are you finding as you get a little older that it's, that's a little harder to get in shape or does it feel about the same or is it easier you know what i haven't noticed a difference yet i if anything it keeps getting easier and easier like my last prep i spent a good chunk of it not even at home just kind of going around and and

doing things it was actually like my best year professionally while i was doing that oh that's cool so that that meant a lot. I'll never do it that way again. I think next time I'm just going to consolidate three months to like, let's just stay at home and only do that. Yeah. But I, I needed that challenge. Um, so I guess if any way, yeah, I've found ways to make it a little bit more challenging

by adding these little sub goals to it. Um, there was one prep where this is my last like real job. I was, uh, setting up afterschool programs in Oakland, California. And I'm like, okay, my goal is to like have no one here know that I was dieting. Like that's my goal. I never want to bring it up. I don't want my performance to go down. So, you know, along with that, I think I've almost found it easier because I know what works for me and I know what it's going to kind of look like.

That I just add on little things to just make it more challenging and more rewarding at a personal level because it's a subjective sport. You can go in there, you can be in your best shape and get like last place. That was actually my pro debut. I got last place after creaming all the amateur shows. And I'm like, okay, I need other things outside of the placing to keep me, you know, keep me happy. Right. So, no, it's gotten easier, I think. It's easier to have other shit going on almost.

Yeah. I think also you get older, you get more boring. boring so starving yourself is kind of the fun part now yeah yeah i guess too you're you know you're getting more efficient at it um and also too i mean a lot of people's like maturity wise in terms like muscle and strength they continue to kind of grow sometimes into like their mid, mid 40s. What's up with Dave Ricks? Yeah, I know. That dude's still deadly.

He's still, he's still killing people. Yeah. So that's my goal. I want to enjoy the sport for a super long time. And I want this, like even when like my skills go down in some way, I'm going to find other things to make this productive and make this still a challenge and do things that I've never done before. What's your, what's your mission with all this? Do you like coaching bodybuilding? Do you want to try to help other people outside of bodybuilding?

I think our mission as a team, Team 3D Muscle Journey, is to just, again, just leave it better than we found it so that that next generation can come in. We ain't got to get credit for it but just build upon that and just keep making it better and better because man talk about like this this sport like refined me like this this whole like lifting of weights just changed me as a person so i want other people to discover that and when they get there there's just you start off at a better place i see that with the usapl these kids, man, you guys showed that deadlift video of me.

Like we used to like not pull the slack. You know, it was just like whiplash and pull, you know? Yeah. It looked like a stiff leg deadlift. Right. Sumo stiff leg. So all these kids are coming in now. And I think that's part of partially why they're getting so strong is that we've made all the errors for them.

And from day one, like it's like this 21 year old kid is 74 kilos and I'm squatting like over 500 pounds. It's like, that used to be a freaky thing and now it's kind of becoming the standard, but it's because the, the education that's out there is a little better. Yeah. People are lifting some crazy weights right now. The females, especially, I mean, I mean the guys have, you know, the guys are, are crushing it too, but man, I, I, I don't really know if I thought it was possible to see girls squatting and deadlifting 500 pounds kind of routinely now.

Yeah. It used to be that one powerlifting chick in every group. It was one. Like 20 dudes, one chick. And now it's like, it's pretty 50-50. And the perks I think women are starting to realize is like that look that you want. Like whatever you did before to try to get a better body composition, right?

Weight, weightlifting does that for you. I think a lot of the girls that, that do bodybuilding and figure competitions, I think a lot of times after their show, you know, they'll post a picture and they're like, I'm not afraid to post this or whatever. And you're like,

well, you shouldn't be like, you look amazing. Like, I don't know what you're talking about, but they, they usually look better, you know, know after after the bodybuilding show and the guys i mean it's a little different the guys start to look kind of gnarly and the face comes

in and stuff like that but and and some of the guys you might be able to say the same thing might be able to say they look a little better after the show but the girls there's definitely like the the look that the powerlifting girls uh the CrossFit girls end up acquiring, I think most people would agree, hey, like, that's pretty damn attractive. It's way more appealing to the general population. And I think that's why it's one of the reasons it's been growing. And I'm with you, man. I didn't think this would happen. I didn't think, like, USAPO has those 284-kilo gals squatting, like, over 500 pounds.

Oh, my God. Right? Like, that's out of this world that's crazy you got uh jen thompson you know benching like 315 325 pounds or yeah and she looks good it's like you see looks great and you're like wow like i think my mom can look at them be like i think i like some shoulders and triceps like it's like that when i'm wearing a dress you know yeah she's jacked she's got some she's got some arms on her. Unbelievable.

So, no, it's been, I'm connected to the powerlifting world. I go to USAPO Nationals, every big meet that I can go to, I try to go to because that is what, like, being strong, I think, came before the lifting of the weight. So to see that, I think it's healthier for most people to do. I think because you did it in the right order. You got strong, build your base, and then you're like, you're like hey you know i'm gonna try to rearrange some things uh and then it was just like a small little step i think relatively speaking compared to the way

other people people just go straight into like hey this bikini chick looked good i think i'm gonna emulate her and it's like you have no idea what you're getting into at all you know with uh with the bodybuilding show it was a little weird for me because you know like i've never done a show before and um i don't know i was just i was having fun with it and i was having a good time and like i don't know i just i just thought the show was going to be fun and i thought everybody around would be fun and i'm like making jokes and stuff and the other guys are just like staring a hole in me and i'm like oh these guys are that's how it is these guys are these guys are pretty serious you know they're like way into their

routines and they're but i guess you know for me too like one thing i didn't think of until after the show i was like you know what i actually didn't really think about it those guys are actually probably really nervous to get on the stage oh yeah that's huge and i was like i forgot like i've been i've been doing that for a while. I did professional wrestling for a while and did a bunch of other things where I put myself out there in front of cameras and in front of different things.

And so then I kind of rethought about it. I was like, oh, they probably weren't assholes. They're probably just really, really nervous about just even getting on stage, period. Also, we don't eat. Like, when I go to a big party, like, everyone's super cool. Yeah. Whereas, like, with bodybuilding. Because they're eating donuts. Yeah, everyone's't eat. When I go to a big party, everyone's super cool.

They're eating donuts. Everyone's just like, it's like that crankiness that they experience. It's amplified the day of. But no, yeah, we're cranky backstage. I remember one of my fellow coaches, I remember he got growled at before he got on stage. This one dude took

it way too serious, looks at him, and just growls at him and he's like okay but that's doesn't that does not surprise me yeah because because people are kind of losing their minds right um when you're um when you're dieting for a show like where do your calories kind of start and like where they end um i think i changed maybe 200, 300 calories. So it's pretty straightforward. So I'm fortunate enough that it's very, very straightforward. I change a little something and it makes a huge impact. So I probably-

Are you super hungry going into the show or not really? Not too bad. That's a skinny guy thing. I don't know what hunger is necessarily. Like there's been many times where I'm like, I feel wonky, I feel weird, and then someone hands me something and I'm like, oh, that's what it was. So the whole hangry thing. I remember walking with Bryce Lewis

through an airport. We were presenting. There's a weird thing by some skinny people. They're like, oh, I just thought about it. I didn't even eat anything today. You're like, what the fuck? Bryce Lewis gets hangry. He gets hangry and he's like 230 pounds and like 5'6". He's a little chubster that guy.

Bryce, if you're listening, sorry, buddy. Got some junk in the trunk. He used to do the bodybuilding. Did you know that? I know. Yeah. I know. I've seen pictures.

He was in pretty damn good shape. It's mind blowing. He'll have a midlife crisis and come back at some point, I think. Oh, he'll be back. Yeah. Yeah. After he deadlifts and squats 800 pounds and benches over 500. What a freak.

He's a mutant. With other people that you work with, do you have to really reduce their calories a lot? Yeah, so a lot of people are much more adaptive. I think the first place people go to is they're adaptive metabolically, but we've actually seen this in the research that it's not as big as we think. I think the biggest things that change is like your body weight plays a huge role. So someone who maybe starts at 200 pounds at a prep, they're just going to burn more calories at rest compared to someone who's like the same person but at 170. So that's a big thing.

You're missing a big chunk of your body weight. And then the other thing is some people when you take away food, like I don't get very, that's a big thing. I don't get very sloppy. Like I'm still pretty animated and that's a huge part of your expenditures. It's not even the weightlifting, but it's the stuff outside of the gym. So, you know, lifting is like 20% or 10. It depends on what study you read, right?

It's not very much, not a lot, but but you know how you probably walk around here when you're well fed versus like in a contest prep diet is probably significantly different and that adds up so your body finds ways to adapt and like be more frugal via just getting you to like hey like stop moving to this music you know stuff like that right yeah i heard uh lane kind of talk about that before where he just not even like, could be something like, could be humming, you know, because he's hearing a song or hearing a beat. And then in contest prep, he just like won't. Yeah.

And he'll just talk less. He'll fidget less. He'll move his hands around less. Like all that. That's a huge part of your expenditure. Yeah. It really is. And, you know, that goes. That goes.

Like starting your set, like, is hard. Right? That's, that's, oh really is. And, you know, that goes. That goes. Like, starting your set, like, is hard, right? That's, oh, no. It was a big part of it for me, you know, coming down to the end of the, towards the, you know, towards competing. It was only this, like, the last two or three days where it was really hard. But I was also doing, like, 90 minutes of cardio.

Yeah. I was doing a crazy amount of cardio. So, for me, that made it hard because it was cardio two times per day for 45 minutes of cardio yeah i was doing a crazy amount of cardio so for me uh that made it hard because it was cardio two times per day for 45 minutes a clip along with the lifting it was like man that was crazy honey rambod wanted to see some striated glutes so that's that's what you had me going for i'm like man i'm like i don't think you understand how big my butt was before i started this whole thing i was like i got a i got a big ass and so i'm like, I don't think you understand how big my butt was before I started this whole thing. I was like, I got a, I got a big ass. And so I'm like, I don't think we're going to end up with striated glutes. I did at one point as we were going through all this and, and, uh, you know,

there's, there's times where they'll, they'll kind of bring everything way down in terms of your calories and your food requirements and stuff where I did start to see some striations in my butt. And I was like, Whoa, weird. Um, but once he brought the carbs back in and stuff where i did start to see some striations in my butt and i was like whoa weird um but once he brought the carbs back in and stuff i wasn't quite able to have the uh the striations in there it was kind of funny too like when i was uh when i was getting uh tanned up i didn't know what the hell i was doing and or when i was getting the whatever they call that the shine or what do they call what they call it oh yeah yeah the glaze the glaze the glaze hamstrings man yeah the glaze yeah when you're talking about the glaze uh i didn't know like when i was supposed to do that or i just didn't know what i was doing and so um they're like oh yeah it's time for you to you know go do that or whatever and so i i pop in there and

there's it's just all girls in there because like i was i missed like when all the guys did it or whatever and they're like oh go ahead because you got to go on stage or whatever and all the girls are looking at my butt and they're like we want our butts to look like your butt but i was just laughing i was like well you know first thing you need to do is get up to 330 pounds and do a lot of power lifting hey the big thing is is that the way you lift like the posterior chain like i'm proud of that because it takes a lot. Like, the hamstrings and glutes, that's all hard work. You're proud of my glutes?

Yeah, they were. You're not just saying that? No. You'll get some lines in those next time. You'll see. I know. There will be a next time, right? I think so.

Yeah. I think so. And you'll see. It gets easier, man. Like, your coping skills with the diet, like, coping while training while under, all that stuff just elevates every time. It gets a little better. Have you ever been able to get in really good shape without a bodybuilding show?

Yeah, yeah. Like with that one like lined up? Yeah, yeah. So usually when, before I start my prep, I'll just get myself like, this is my fighting weight. You know, this is I can lift well. I'll get myself a little bit closer. Right. So I don't like to lose more than 12% of my body weight when I start a prep.

So I'll get myself pretty close. It's like, honestly, it's like the look. Like the casual person would tell me, you look your best right here. Yeah. You don't look like you're going to die. So I do that. And then I'll just hang around there for a minute and reestablish what I have to do to like all the habits.

Because right now my habits, they kind of have to be. And I like them to, you know, I get off the gas a little bit, but, uh, but yeah, I like to be reasonable when I start. So I'll rock that for a minute before I press the button. What are some things that you allow yourself to do? You know, when, when you're, when you're not, when you're not competing, like there's some things where, you know, you know, in your head, like the right quote unquote, right and wrong way, but you're just like, you know what? I can't really think about that right now. I need to just allow myself to just be. So when I'm not prepping. Right. Ooh. Um, I think a big thing is I'm a little bit more flexible with my training. I think that's a huge one. When,

when I'm prepping, it's like, I need a, it's just, it keeps me going. Like, even though, will it make a difference or not? If I push a day back, but it's like, no, it's just this mental momentum that I need to keep going. So I'm more flexible with like when I train. Um, I think a big thing is I probably enjoy alcohol a little bit more. Yeah. Um, cause you can fit it into your diet, but like when you get to that point, it's like, okay, so would I rather have this, these 400 calories worth of wine? Like would I rather have 400 calories go to wine or would I rather like just add some rice cakes? Right.

What's going to impact the bottom line better? So I ended up going with that most of the time, you know, like easy. Right. So I think those are the two best things. The two things that I enjoy the most is like, I get to have a drink here and there with, with my friends. And then I hang around with power lifters back home. So, you know, they're not about the Tupperware life. Um, so I get to do that and just the being like, I don't feel like there's as much urgency to train all the time.

Yeah. I think, um, that kind of like that, that idea of like, I got to do something every day, you know, it's good to kind of keep that reserved for, uh, when you, when you, when you got to step on a stage, you know, and for me with the bodybuilding thing, I just, I was like, no, I'm just going to train every, I'm just going to try to do something every day. Yeah. End up taking off one day. And when I took off that one day, I actually felt amazing because I probably really needed it at that point. Yeah. There's something about bodybuilding that I think that people, um, that everyone should

experience. I think everybody should try. I think everyone should maybe try to get on a bodybuilding stage at some point, just because there's no other way to make it that drastic. Yeah. There's no other way to make it that crazy. Or maybe even just, you know, have yourself accountable with like a photo shoot or something. But when you hear people talk about like carving up or, or, you know, deeply, you know, have yourself accountable with like a photo shoot or something. But when you hear people talk about like carving up or, or, you know, deplete, you know, deplete

your body of carbohydrates and then, and then refeed and all these different things. I've always hated the term refeed. I was like, that's a garbage. That's such a stupid, such a super stupid term. And what I hated about it was I'm like, you're probably not really that depleted anyway. Yeah. Yeah. super stupid term. And what I hated about it was I'm like, you're probably not really that depleted anyway. But if you're doing bodybuilding and your coach says, Hey man, go have some carbs. Well, now you'll know what it really feels like to be depleted and to actually get a real carb up. Cause you'll start eating those carbs. And it's almost like you have a pump as if you were

training, but you're not doing anything. You're just eating. You're like, Oh my God, what's happening? Your skin's bursting. Veins are are pumping most people don't know like what that's it's like to get a pump while you're sitting down you're chowing down it's crazy um but but no like you i don't like the word reefy because it insinuates it like you just haven't been eaten and it's like no you you're actually okay you're yeah you're probably in a first world country and you're you're starving yourself strategically yeah with a high protein diet this is You're not dying by any means. Well, everybody just thinks it means just like go and engorge on these crazy foods. And it's like, well, maybe that's not a good strategy for you if you're trying to lose weight or whatever the goal might be.

I like high carb day. That's my lingo when I describe that. But that whole being in tune with your body, like having a carb pump, most people have no idea what that is. being in tune with your body, like having a carb pump, most people have no idea what that is. It's again, and that's the part about the prep is like that you like any sporting endeavor, but I think marathon runners like never done one, but I think they probably talk to themselves as well as they're doing their thing. You know, you're in your own head and the same thing with bodybuilding. It's like, it's a, you know, it's, it's, it's a few months long and the whole time you're just having this internal dialogue with yourself and maybe that voice in your head that you know that tells you to quit that tells you to like this is too

hard like it pops up every time and you need to learn to shut that dude down you talk to yourself a lot oh yeah a lot of self-talk oh absolutely i'm big on that i'm big i didn't realize how powerful that was until it's like the stuff you tell yourself you believe oh my god yeah yeah so if you if it's like i'm not good at that's like, Oh, I'm not good at that. I can't do that. I'm not good at that. Nope. Yeah.

Right. I mean, then you're stuck there forever. Cause we know people that are not organized. Don't, don't give me any paperwork. I can't do it. And it's like, well, what the hell kind of attitude is that? Yeah. How do you know you're not good at it?

Have you really, have you actually really tried it? Have you actually given yourself an honest shot? Because maybe if you practiced, uh, being organized as much as you practice lifting, maybe you could actually be great at it. Yeah. Or maybe you can just do it once in a while. So you're efficient at it enough so that you can, uh, whatever the hell it is. I mean, I know some guys that are talented on the end of, um, being creative, but like I've used them for work before and then they can't produce me a, uh, they can't produce me like a purchase order or a receipt or something.

Like I'm like, dude, I, in order for me to give you a check, like this is the way business works. Yeah. You need to, you need to email me something so we can produce a check for you. So we got like a record of it and you get paid appropriately. And that's like, I'm not, I can't, I can't just like randomly PayPal you money. My business doesn't work that way. But then, you know, these people that are talented in one way, they fall way short in another and they're like, I don't know how to do that. You know, those, those kinds of things.

And it's like, well, you, you don't know how to do it because you probably haven't really tried. Have you, you know, asked somebody or, you know, someone can coach you through it. I'm sure probably punching up a couple buttons on a computer and you'll probably be fine. I mean, a lot of those people that are really good at that one thing, right? When you see them handle their business on that end, it's like, look how crafty you are.

And look how you're just getting it done. And you're going from here to that and just like on a whim, basically. But give them something else that, yeah, they feel like they're not good at. it's just different it's hard for different reasons they just like they they bail out right away um but the self-talk that's what has done to me it's like there's things that i've in the past i've told myself and i started to believe and it's like well hold up if it works this way i can probably reverse it the other way too and i can i might not that might not be me yet but but I'm going to convince myself that, Hey,

at some point I'll be the lightweight champion of like the bodybuilding world, the natural bodybuilding world. So, but I keep telling myself that, and that's how I approach my training. Like that's what it's for. And that's who I am. You know what too? It's like you, you go after that goal. You know, you talk about that goal, you go after that goal.

And who knows what journey you'll end up on or who knows exactly how it will work out. But you tried it. Yeah. You went through it. You, you know, maybe, maybe you try it one year in your, your second place and then try it again the next year in your first place. Like who knows how it will actually play out. But, um, if you don't have, if you don't even set the goal in the first place and you don't put a deadline to it, then it is certainly not going to ever happen. And if you do it right, right.

I mean, look at your, what, why'd you start lifting? Right. It was, you know, just, it was very simple. Right. And look what grew out of that. Right. Throw around some weights and then, yeah, next thing you know, we got all this stuff going on. Yeah.

Started very innocent and simple, but it, yeah, it snowballs. How do you make money? Um, I coach? I coach. I coach athletes. And we also, we have a, so it's a new product. It's called the 3D Muscle Journey Vault. And it's just courses, online courses. Oh, cool.

That pertain to. Education. Yep, yep, yep. So that's what we're trying to get a little bit more into this next year. Because it's going to be our 10-year anniversary as a company. It's fucked 10 years, dude. That's cool. Yeah, we're going to try to grow a little bit more on that end just some friends being some meatheads all this we collected each other backstage of shows that's how it that's how it worked out it's like hey you're you're weird like me let's let's all right let's hang out and

like here we are that's cool and uh with this uh vault program like you're trying to actually kind of of like give people coaching or are you trying to teach people how to be coaches themselves or? Oh, a little bit of both. A little bit of both. So, yeah, many different topics in there. You know, we have things like fat loss, like muscle growth to, you know, even like we have one special case course. It's so one of our coaches, Brad Loomis, has a gnarly scoliosis. Like his spine is almost like touching on both sides, right? And just his perspective and his angle on how he handled that, you know. And so there's a little bit of everything. You know, we don't want it to be just like for, you know, the meathead nerd.

A little bit of everything in there. But we're working on it. That's a new dynamic for us. It's a new direction. You can help way more people when you do it that way as opposed to I'm limited to who I can reach. How many people do you physically work with at a time? I don't have too many. Maybe about 30 to 35 is as many as I have in my roster and that's it. Is that all over the map? Some might be Maybe about 30 to 35 is as many as I have in my roster.

And that's it. And is that kind of all over the map? Like some might be bodybuilding, some might be powerlifting. Yeah. People do different things. A little bit of every, I have some people that, yeah, they're prepping and that's what we're doing. We have other folks that are, that are powerlifters. And so we're doing that.

And then I have even like now powerlifters that come strictly for the nutrition. So that's, the nutrition so that's that's that's been it's a little bit of everything that's cool yeah what's the hardest part um what's the hardest part for people to adapt to when you're trying to help them with these diets i think being honest with me about what they can handle that's probably the biggest thing and uh and sometimes they don't necessarily like what you tell them they can't handle it right now but it's like hey you've got to start squatting with one plate before we add more so i think that's the biggest thing is that i have to slow people down a little

bit and it's like you know what we might not get there as fast as you like but i'm gonna try to make it so that we have as many like little setbacks as many like the least amount of setbacks as possible over the course of a long long time yeah i noticed that when it comes to women a lot of times when when you give a woman a program a lot of times they'll follow it to a t you know yeah whereas the guys you know they'll kind of take liberties that's because we're inherently we know how to lift weights i think that's kind of the that's right whereas i think women we're designed to lift weights. I think that's kind of the, whereas I think women, we're designed to lift weights. Damn it. We know what we're doing. We know, you know,

but no, and I think women are more, they, and maybe detail oriented and might be generalizing, but I think they, they tend to, uh, respect the specialist a little bit more.

Like I hired this person for that and that's, that's what they're, so they're smarter than us in that way. You know? Right. So I'm all about outsourcingourcing. I get the power of the outsourcers. So many things I suck at. Have someone else do it. What else do you like to do besides get down and dirty in the gym? I think I see outdoors quite a bit. I like the outdoors. I haven't done as much as I'd like recently, but we're going to start.

It takes away from my training, man. Oh, man. That's the part that's a little eh. So I love the outdoors. I like simple things. I love to write. That's probably the biggest thing. To me, just sitting down and getting in my thoughts, that's probably.

Writing down whatever? It can be so much. Poetry? Sometimes it can be. So sometimes it's poetry. It's sometimes it can be, I'm not going to share it ever, but, but sometimes we go through, it's like,

bro, I'll, I'll send you one. It'd be dedicated to you. Um, yeah. So I, I honestly,

I'm by nature, a very introverted person. Uh, I can put on the act, but I, after this, I'm be toast. I'm being my hotel room like

shaking you know but so yeah i like my time alone i like in my own head and that's why i like the outdoors because it's like hey it's just like you there's something about that too because that's how we were we're meant to do that and we don't do that you know it's like have a dog in an apartment all day take that dude to the park you know know? So yeah, that's being alone in different settings where I can get in my own head is probably my favorite thing. There's so much to that. You go outside and you feel the, you feel the coldness on your skin and without you doing or saying anything, your skin like, or your hair stands up, you know, and you get like a chill. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, well, you get a chill cause it's cold outside,

but you can't make yourself have that chill. You can't make yourself feel that. No. The different things that you feel when you go outside, you feel the warmth of the sun. Like the sun has a very, a very direct and, and,

and distinct feel to it. Just the, the smell in the air, the wind, like all these things, they, they play into your mind quite a bit. I,

I, that's why i always preach to people you know hit up these 10 minute walks yeah try to just man just i know it's like getting cold in certain parts of the country but figure out a time that you can get outside try to get outside and just freaking move around yeah no it's cruel to yourself if you don't do that i feel it really is that's a good good way of putting it. What about movies, TV, any of that stuff? Video games? No, no, no, no, no.

I like sports. But I see sports from a different angle now. So I was born in the Bay Area. So the Warriors were, they sucked growing up. And now there's all these bandwagon Warriors fans. And I can't stand them because it's like they're new. Now there's all these bandwagon like Warriors fans. And I can't stand them because it's like they're new, you know?

Yeah. But so like when they were playing the Cavaliers and LeBron in the finals, I was actually cheering for LeBron. Because I'm like, I'm going to go with the team or the result that I think would have or embody the athletic performance that I want to see the most. Right. So if he would have done that, like to me, I get a lot of inspiration from other athletes. I want to see people shoot three pointers all day. Yeah. It sounds like if he does this, like he's going to be in a wheelchair and with a gray hair, but it'll be pretty dope to see.

So I love sports, but I like to see him more so. I like to get inspired and like, man, like this, this freak athlete just like laid it all out on the line. Right. I get a lot from that. What about music? Oh yeah. Yeah. I love yeah i love music everything everything everything um you throw on some headphones when you're outdoors or you kind of just take it in on your own i like to

clean to music that's what it is yeah clean yeah yeah lifting a music's give you some headphones you can keep it very clean man i know we We got to keep it tidy in there. It looks spot on, as it should be. I think it's Smokey cracking that whip. Smokey, you're doing a good job, bro. It looks immaculate. He's keeping it clean in there. He's just yelling at people to keep it clean, though. Yeah, no, he's not actually cleaning anything.

No, no, no. No. Okay. Well, never mind Smokey. Workers are fucking spot on. There you go. Anything else over there buddy no i'm good man all right well uh where can people find you uh 3d muscle journey.com um

all of us coaches we're also i think the platform we use the most because it's probably the best one right now is uh is instagram so you can the grams yeah on the gram i do the story thing a lot i like to oh before we go uh i got a major concern here um i noticed some like i know you're supposed to be a natural athlete but some of the photos you've been posting recently i'm starting to notice some some growth of the breast area um and that's usually indicative of somebody that uses stuff like got on Clamastia, right? Like, so what's the deal? I mean. That's just where I hold my fat. I hold my fat in my bread and my penis.

And that's where it all goes in the off season. Oh, in the head of the penis and in the boobs, huh? So I was Photoshopping pictures and people were, they were being really nice. Like no one said anything.

They were just like, clap me up. And I'm like, did you not notice that? And they're like, I just didn't want to say anything. I didn't notice it. So people were actually very courteous about it i stopped though i stopped because i had this one teenager getting concerned well he reached out to

me this teen reached out to me he's like he's like i have bitch tits and i'm like i don't want to make someone feel bad about the way they look so oh man so even if it's one usually i'm not very like hey if you get offended move on dude yeah but yeah Yeah. But. That's a kid. That's a kid. Sounds a little different. Yeah, it's different when it comes to a kid. So, no, I'm rock solid. Rock solid there. The nipples can cut glass, but I'm rock solid.

Can you show us? No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't need to show us those big ones. I was just going to see the guy now. All right. Strength is never weak. This weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later.