Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 2 - Jen Widerstrom and Matt Vincent

Episode Date: February 2, 2018

The morning after The Super Training Classic, TV Personality and The Biggest Loser Coach, Jen Widerstrom and 2x former world champion highland games athlete Matt Vincent talk about their experience at the Meet. They discuss fitness for beginners and touch on sexual harassment in Hollywood.

But he's like, that doesn't work. Well, dude, my dad, I remember, hadn't gone to get a checkup in 10 years. I was like, Dad, please just go. And his prostate levels were really elevated, turned out no cancer. And then it was great, but I'm like, you've got to watch this.

And then he was avoiding and avoiding because he knew they were elevated. Sure enough, he went and had prostate cancer. Now, it's not uncommon for men when you hit 55. You just don't want to deal with it. Listen, we talked. He's like, they stuck a tube up my ass and they put these fucking, you know,

estrogen pellet. I don't fucking know. I think they put something in like your dick or something. No, he's up his ass. No. They shoved something down your hog's ass. They were toward his prostate. Like they injected his,

like he had to go through his blood today. And he, you know. That worked good. Yeah, great. Excellent. Just rolling start there down your hog's ass. They restored his prostate. Like, they injected his, like, he had to go through his blood today. And, you know. That worked good. Yeah, great. Excellent. Just rolling start there. Let's delete that. Call in with your questions.

So your dad's prostate? Let's talk more about your dad's butt stuff. It's honestly really common for men over 55. So if you're not getting a checkup, you've got to go. Where are you from? Originally. Where are you from? Chicago.

You know this. Yeah, my dad was Oak Park. My mom was a city kid. And then I decided to hook up and make babies and then move out to the suburbs. How long were you in Chicago for? Well, before becoming a Jayhawk. Yeah. That's for you, Andy.

Let's see. I mean, I was born and raised there and then went to school. I was born in 82 to went to school in 2000 at KU. You got a little Chicago accent. Yeah, you know what,

I feel like I'm protesting and I'm making it heavier when like I've been in LA and other cities just to like, I'm a middle child, I need the attention. How good does it get

when you're home? Oh, it sasses out. It's the best, right? It gets worse. Like I don't have the weird Louisiana accent. If I get home

and there's like two or three friends that I hang out with and a couple drinks or something like that, Ashley just starts looking at me and she's like, you have gone mush mouth. Oh, you get dry. Yeah, I do. I'm trying to think. The accent does get worse when I'm home.

And like now because everyone's got kids, it's like who wants to go over and have one to play heads up? And we have a great time, I'm telling you. But then you have to do things in accents, and then the movie quotes come out, and then we all revert to sixth grade. So let's explain to people how you got here, because it's kind of funny. You mean like airplanes? I've been, yeah.

Great contribution, Matt. Are you sure we want him in this podcast? The Wright Brothers. We've got a ways to go back, but it's not that far. Don't pull Mark off track. They thought flight was impossible until the Wright Brothers came along and proved people wrong. The Wright Brothers thought that flying across the United States was impossible

and that was proven to be wrong too because a year later, somebody did fly across the United States. You guys got here via plane? Via plane. and then that was proven to be wrong too because a year later, somebody did fly across the internet. Want to hear some great trivia while we're doing this? Via plane. Via plane? His name is Alfred Nobel, aka Nobel Peace Prize.

Do you know what he got? Dynamite. Dang. We should really rethink him being in this podcast. Dynamite emoji? Yeah, he made up in this podcast he was responsible for the emoji again

three times I'm considering kicking him out no it was dynamite that's how he got famous and he felt so bad remorseful that he created such a destructive invention that he kind of bequeathed all his fortune to the Nobel Peace Prize for people that do great things.

People use dynamite as a positive though, right? They'll say, that's dynamite. That's the positive way they use it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you have Jimmy Walker. I just think I want to point out that he's been saying this his whole life. Or sometimes they blow stuff up, but it's like to make a railroad through a...

Right? Like a side of a rock. Dynamite's not really... Is it used in war, dynamite? I don't know. Not anymore as much. Maybe some of the elements are dynamite. We've made some advances on the...

There's less light in the old stick from the crate of... How bad have you guys always wanted to push the thing down? Is that really a thing? It is. You push that thing... If you were a dynamiter? I got something to admit. I do it with my suitcase all the time.

A suitcase handle, I do it all the time. Your face is on my suitcase, thanks to you. Brand new suitcase, really excited. I had a hard top, very pumped about it. And I walk out of the room on my book tour last year, come back in, it's your face, like you're off the team sticker. It's the most handsome face you've ever seen. That's why. I love the story behind that photo. What is the story behind that you're off back in it's your face like you're off the team sticker it's the most handsome face you've ever seen that's why i love the story behind that photo what is the story behind that you're off the team that photo how do i not know it's on my suitcase he's with burdick somewhere

and burdick has like fallen asleep or something like that and just looks fat and just gross and so mark's going to take this photo of him and the camera turns on and it's facing himself and he's like oh shit he just like saves that picture god's a fair guy he's like you're gonna you're gonna do it to your friend jesse yeah exactly jesse jesse sprawled out on his on his bed we were traveling doing seminars at the time and he's just like in his underwear and I'm like this is we just got we just got to the hotel and like he all of a sudden all his clothes are off and everything I was like I don't understand what's happening and so I'm like that is gross I went to

snap a picture and there you go end up with the off the team face that's a great story terrible no but how did you get here? Because I was telling Matt about the event and we were talking with like Kelly's Tourette and I was letting all my good friends know about the event and I kind of forgot about somebody. And then you ended up telling her. And then originally going to be a no ladies allowed. And then I got, and then I got, and then I got, and then I got in trouble. I need a martini glass. It's that.

I get a message from her. She's like, how come I don't know about this event? Oh, who was I with? You were with me. You were with him.

You guys were hanging together. Where did you do her? Yeah, it's perfectly, I peer pressured Kelly and her into this. Yeah, listen,

I think when, no matter if one of your best friends forget about you. I just ended up in some serious hot water. It was rough. Forget that you exist. Forget that you actually lift weights. Forget that you're relatively strong as a civilian. A lot of things that people forget.

But, you know, you have always stepped up for me whenever I've needed you. My book tour last year was huge. Sacramento was one of the best stops on the trip. And Super Training was one of the best stops. And no matter how late the invitation was, I was like, I'm there. And frankly, I will say as well, about a year and a half ago, I was like, I'm going to do a powerlifting meet. Because I've done OLE and powerlifting I don't do because i'm i'm just bad at it like i'm not built really for

moving heavy things and i just kind of generally like doing what i'm good at yeah stick to the things you know um and and i chickened out and i was training and i was like this this is hard first of all lifting heavy is hard doing the volume that's required is hard the time that you have to commit to not only the days but the accessories every I was like this sucks it was a huge commitment and I was like in you know in between with the biggest loser seasons and I was like and I had been posting about it and I just literally just like I just dropped it and people were asking I'm like delete comment and and and so anyway the opportunity came up and I'm actually doing this in the middle

of this 40-day challenge for shape magazine and this doing a power lifting meet was my goal and I'm like I have to follow through on it so that was another opportunity I think she could be a lot better at it if she would have stuck to the fat Dan diet plan. As a trainer, I feel like... Just to get that bulk? Yeah, get that bulk in. But I don't think bulk necessarily means more weight. I could be 10 pounds heavier. That bar would not come any further off the earth yesterday. This is not going to go well with the powerlifting community.

I'm going to be honest with you. Bigger is not better. Why can't I be lighter? I mean, listen, I could be 10 pounds lighter, and I still would have pulled the same. This is what you do when you retire from powerlifting. But until then... Well, no, come on, let's be honest.

You can't just be fat and expect you're going to move better weight. It's not fall or faster or stronger. That's a lot of quality... Excuse me? It's not smaller, faster, stronger. I kind of disagree. Why't i have be efficient weight why can't i be ant woman move a lot of weight for my body weight yeah yeah that's i mean that makes sense yeah in theory pack on some muscle well a lot of times i think what people don't realize is you know and something I realized years ago was uh there was a lifter named Sean Frankel who dominated powerlifting for several years

he was uh competed at 220 pounds very short very stocky guy when I first met him it was crazy because he was the he was the biggest person I've ever seen uh because he was so damn wide he has huge shoulders. So it got me thinking. I was like, at the time, I weighed around 300. And I was like, I'm like, I'm 300 and he's 220. But he's 220 and he's probably maybe like 8% body fat or 10% body fat. I'm like, his 500, you know, his 5'6", 220 220 pound body probably has at least, you know,

same amount of muscle as I do. Probably the same lean mass you're carrying. Yeah. Or maybe, or maybe even more. Right. And I started thinking about the people that were in my circle and I start, so I think you're right. You know, having, having body weight on, we know can help you. You're going to throw it your whole life.

But it's also a big difference too, if you were competing in geared powerlifting. Yeah. You could have some extra chub on you. It's just different in the, too, if you were competing in geared powerlifting versus raw. You could have some extra chub on you. It's just different in the suit. It works different. But we've talked about it. Even yesterday we were talking about that, Matt. So, obviously, you went much further in your throwing career.

But being a hammer thrower, what I would have given to be 5'8", I'm like, I would have been a national champion. Which is really crazy to say, but at 5'6", and I could barely break 150 pounds, I was a four-turner. But you look at the, I mean, granted, you have to be talented and strong and do all that stuff and not freak out mentally in the ring and all those things. But if you look at radius times speed, that equals distance. That's just math, okay? So it's like science. So for me to get two more inches here, that changes my throw so much just having the length.

So it's like you, I mean, you were talking about when you would take photos with like the top 10. Oh, yeah, yeah. The top guys I would throw against. So somebody did like an average of the top 10 highland game guys I competed against. And it's like the average out of us was like 6'3 and 320. Oh, yeah. A lot of the guys are huge. And like the biggest I ever was was probably like 290.

At 6 feet tall? Anytime we would take a... Yeah, at 6 foot, right? The best 6 foot. You have that picture where you're holding that giant... Yeah, we're holding the caber. That's like what you're doing

in Palau. And I am this much shorter than the rest of the crowd. So anytime we would take like a lineup photo before a world, I would... You're just sad.

I would shrink up on person. Because anytime I figured after that... Have you ever seen that picture? It's hilarious. Any time after that, they talk about it, right? I took a picture last night with all of you guys and Shaw's there. But you know what I mean?

Imagine, but maybe that's why you got so good. Because you were small. You had to be better. You had to be technically perfect. You had to be the best everywhere else to make up the ground. Because you were a guy that had, like, really long arms. He's like, he could scratch his knees, whatever that guy was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, that guy doesn't have to worry about where his foot is in the last turn. No. He just lets it, whoof, come through center. Crazy radius, right? But there's definitely a truth to, like, there is a certain amount of weight, especially, say, hammer throwing or throwing. Like, there was a point where too much weight wasn't benefiting me, and there was a point where I was too light.

Yeah, I agree with that. And you just can't create the leverage. I mean, I was way too light. I mean, Coach, we went to, like, Charlie's Chicken. Shout out to Arkansas. He's like, I would order. And Coach was like, yeah, Jen, you're getting a seven-piece. I'd keep frying it twice for her.

Nice. Anything I could do. My face was so fat when I would smile. How much did you weigh? Barely broke 150. Could not break it. You know the saying that you ain't a lady if you ain't 180? No, but I got some time to go. That's great. You could pack it on a little bit more. But it would have changed my throw completely. Yeah, right. The whole room is giggling at that 180 count.

Because there's a certain degree of throwing that if the ball is going to leave and go 65 meters, that means it's traveling at this speed from the ring. Right, but also, the snatch is the greatest transfer of, I would say, gym movement to throw movement for that event. How can you snatch when you're already standing up at zero like all my legs all like who cares all the squats I've done and all the explosive movement I've done I'm already on my tippy toes and it's just like it's going through zero it's like doesn't yeah the fourth turn you're not getting much out of because you just

can't sit I would have to do duck turns in the ring and coach would just laugh duck turn is basically where you like you know duck box like really low and you do your full turns and I would just crack, head hits the pavement, coach is like, spits the chew out. All right, waiters, let's go again. Just to try to keep me down, but I just wasn't, I didn't have enough weight.

What do you weigh nowadays? Well, it's not been a good year for me. Oh, damn. I'm losing weight. We talked about this with your cousin last night. I'm probably down like 135. And you know, I think losing weight. We talked about this with your cousin last night. I'm probably down like 135. And, you know, I think it's funny. There's a misconception. That's not the right word. There's a weird programming that like lighter is better, you know, with women. And I was going to say, so that's a 15 pound difference. Yeah. I've seen you post a picture before on Instagram and

you look tremendously different. So you've not only lost body fat, but you also probably... But I'm losing muscle. That's the thing. So it's like, to me, muscle will always pay for the party. Women overlook that. They want to do the cardio and they don't realize that my body right now, even though I've been crazy with work and everything, the muscle, the fact that I'm bleeding muscle right now is one of the worst things I can do as a 35-year-old woman. Like that's me. At this. It's gonna jack up your metabolism. Oh, it keeps my metabolism going, it keeps me strong, it keeps me sustained.

Not just in my, it's like screw 35, I need to get through 55, 75, and then what I do now will affect those decades. Matt's been on this plan to like try not to have any muscle at all. That's the goal, yeah. Like to put in a lot of effort. What I'm doing is tearing the whole building down.

Do you know that show Family Guy? When he wishes for no bones in his body? It's similar. He was changing shirts yesterday. I was like, that's tough. Yeah, right. I look like silly. It's a good thing you're married.

I don't know what you would do out here. No, right. I look like you could press me on a newspaper and peel me up. And there would just be a print. And the truth is, everyone knows bones are made of the stuff your muscles don't want. That's right. Just science. The whole day yesterday, he's like, I need to figure out some bodybuilding.

I got to figure this out. I got to start looking like I actually lift. He mentioned it like 20 times. I'm telling you, though, but in my schedule, like I said, if I get two workouts a week, I'm doing a yoga class and I bodybuild. That's it. I'm doing like 100 miles on my road bike. It's a cute little cycling. But I love it.

It's fun. I definitely heard the Wicked Witch as well. Yeah, I pictured that. I just pictured him like pedaling frantically but not really going anywhere. It's really slow. Same hat. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I have a real, I wear one of those aero time trial helmets that they wear for like. Why? How fucking fast do you look? No, no. Why? Because you're not going fast. Incorrect. Are you clipping your feet into the thing? A hundred percent.

Why wouldn't you? You got the special shoes and the butt pad and the spandex and everything? A hundred percent, I do. Does it hurt your balls? To ride a bicycle? I don't know why

you're asking me a question with a question and why the bird laugh. Is this something that's going to come up on Dr. Oz when you're asking me a question with a question. You don't just sit on them all loosey-goosey. Is this something that's going to come up on Dr. Oz when you're on Dr. Oz this week? No, yeah, exactly. Dr. Oz, does it hurt your balls to ride a bike? I'm totally going to. Well, actually, in the episode.

We have Matt Vincent here. He's a ball sitting specialist. Come on, you're telling me you don't get off the, isn't it a problem? So a lot of that depends on. I do feel sore. A lot of that depends on... I do think so now. I feel sore. A lot of that depends on angle of the seat and how well you actually fit for your bike. That was confusing. So a lot of that is the professional fit of a bike.

Like if you've actually got it set for the right height and things like that and you actually have a seat... He used to work in a bike store. Yeah. He owned a bike shop. He owned a... Yeah. And so...

I forgot about that. He owned it. Yeah. Yeah. And so you can get... What hasn't he done? He's got a lot of weird jobs. He's got the Forrest Gump story.

I basically just get a job for six months. Is he just blindly stupid and just goes for stuff? He does. It's blindly stupid. You could just stop at that part. It doesn't need any other caveat. I could use a little blind courage. Just punch it in there.

You know what I mean? Get the whiskey and just fire it in. Or, I don't know, pull it in. Whatever ladies do. I don't know. That feels awkward. I don't feel like that really sends me on my way. Pull it in?

I'm thinking about captions at Instagram, and I don't think I would write that to motivate someone. We're going to work on it. Pull it in today, ladies. Have the courage to pull it in. I'm a big idea guy guy i'm not there to polish yeah you you can tune it up to make it wonderful we're gonna work on that one yeah we'll come back to you um but yeah no the cycling thing's fun i've always i've always just liked it i like bikes

they're a really simple machine that accomplished stuff okay mark have you ever tried to distance kind of activity? Like I just get bored. Like that sounds like a nightmare to me. Yeah, no, I don't like it. Like sitting in bike. Like to run around a track four times or something. Like you and I are like on bikes. And obviously we're not side by side.

So now I'm on this amazing bike ride with my friend Mark and I came to talk to him. Oh, so you WeChat. He's like, but. Yeah, it's hard. Well, like... I know I'm breathing hard. I don't know why. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the group I'm riding with, right? So you'll ride with, say, like a group of five, right? And so the group that I go ride with, you end up following each other and drafting. And then you're working as a group. Are you first because you have the speed helmet? And I'm winning. group. Are you first because you have the speed helmet? And I'm winning. So as we're riding like that, like you're drafting behind and then you work to the front and then move to back to the back and you pull and take turns. And then there's times where we're like both the next four miles,

we'll back off a little bit and we chat for a while and then work. Like the thought of four miles would be like in totality. No, we do like 30. We would do. But it takes. How long? 90 minutes. Oh, terrible. I would like to set my phone up and watch Dumb and Dumber. She's on TV.

Well, I'm not in a room. I'm just going to be bored. It's outside. It's nice. You get air. Think about other studies, right? This was a recent study that came up. Mark and I can go bring our coffees outside. We get plenty of air.

Recent study that came up was that if you can take like 30 minutes to a 45-minute walk like in nature, like with trees and things around you, not in downtown. I understand where nature is. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That you actually reduce depression stuff or depression stuff. That's how they say it. It's fucking early.

What do you want me to do? It'll reduce feelings of depression by over 60%. Yeah. Does not work if you try to do it in a city. I agree. And so I like being out and doing that. And I spent 20 fucking years in the gym chasing a thing. Yeah.

I want to be outside. I want to do something different that I'm bad at. Yeah, no, I mean, I get that. I just, and I don't mind the challenge. I mean, listen, I just did a powerlifting meet and there's, I said it yesterday, if there's a hundred pounds in the bar, you guys would cheer just as loud. That's what I love about our family. But I just really get bored. I like knowing that I'm going to pick this up and put it down and then I'm going to do five sets of it. You like the challenge of it. I do. I just need more.

I just get bored. Yeah, I'm getting killed on the bike by the guys I go ride with. I thought you were winning. Oh, that's a lie. They're all like triathletes. I just want to get it out here. The heavy guy in that group. I end up talking shit to them because the heavy guy in that group is probably $1.65.

And so I'm essentially, anytime they get the draft off of me, it's like they're behind a fucking semi-truck. I'm like, you sons of bitches. Oh, because you just block your head. Yeah, they can just float around and they don't have to pedal. Do you usually wear large t-shirts that are crop tops when you bike, like you did in the competition? He likes flowy tops.

I have a very long torso, Jim. Tight pants, flowy tops. I have a very long torso, Jim. Tight pants, flowy tops. I have a very long torso. Tight pants, flowy tops, yeah. That's what they say. I don't know what you'd like me to do. So that means yes. I don't know what you'd like me to do.

So yes, he's wearing crap tops. So they'll be like, you've got all this strength and you're so fucking bad. So it doesn't bother your balls. No, not really. Back to the... Back to,

it's an exercise situation, I've got sport cock. It just shrinks up. Yeah, it gets out of the fucking way. It knows that now is not the time. But I'm not talking about your penis. I'm talking about your testicles. Yeah, well, I mean, they move too.

Okay. Balls move a lot. I didn't know that. If you were to just say. Oh, if they get hot, yeah, they'll be bigger. Or if you were to just sit on a couch or something like that and not move, the balls will just move. No, they won't.

Oh, yeah. Can I have a confirmation? If you go to get up into like a... Well, not even that. Like if you're just sitting in a chair, they will just... Your dick and balls will just move around. Yeah, they'll just kind of shift. We're not getting confirmation.

Maybe mine are awesome. I don't know. It's more complicated. I was like, how high are you when this is happening? Well, if you... Six out of ten, but that's not anyone else's business. Like, if you were to swing your leg to, like, get into, like, a truck or, like, SUV or something, you kind of end up sitting on your balls.

Yeah. And then you got to kind of, like, wiggle around. So they're used to... They move around a lot. They take abuse. They take abuse. They're built for it. Okay.

I'm learning a lot. Vaginas are built for abuse, too. Most genitals are. This is taking a turn. Vaginas are built for abuse, too. Most genitals are. This is taking a turn. Turn for the better? Yeah, of course. I can't tell yet. Let's keep talking.

How did you feel lifting in the meet yesterday? Have you done a powerlifting meet before? So, no, that was my first one. And I've done Oli meets. I think what I enjoyed was in Olympic lifting, there's got to be, and listen, there's some ugly ollie lifters out there, like as far as technique is concerned. Oh, I thought you just meant like, he's an ugly ass.

Swipe left if you know what I mean. I think there's uglier people in powerlifting, but anyway. Yeah, yeah. I think there's ugly everywhere if you look for it. Let's talk about ugly people getting into sports. But, you know, there's so much more precision, like catching a snag, that very violent physical movement and landing. It's got to be there and where your foot position is.

This was just push up. It's a push up. Like when you said I didn't have to squat, I was like, I'm totally going. I think it's why everybody was so excited. No, it was exciting. It was just you got to be emotional. You got to go for it. It was fun watching other people move well.

And not just our D division where we had our special guests doing it. All the women that competed. All the men that were going. The kid Nathan that lent me his belt. The cute little kid. You know what I mean? But what they did and where they pushed, it was about pushing ourselves. It's like everybody knew that they were going to get under or over a bar and say,'s going to be hard and that's what i'm like we all did it and we all

met that standard and that's what was cool we all had the exact same experience and shared it and and like we get to keep that forever what do you think that does for other women when they see a woman lift like there was a girl yesterday i did a 463 pound deadlift yeah and there was a couple other ladies that uh blew the roof off too. What does that do for other women, you think, when they're watching some of that? It was cool because after I did bench, I had multiple women come up to me and they were like,

it was so cool to see you lifting because I was the only female in our kind of division. So I was like, you know, opening. And I was like, you could have competed today. And they're like, I don't know. I'm not like lifting that heavy. And that's where I started going to the conversation that I just kind of said,

like it could have been 100 pounds. It could have been 100 pounds. It could have been 50 pounds. I would have the exact same support from men. And I think there's a weird kind of, and it's not a vibe that I get from the men. It's a vibe I get from women that they kind of remove themselves. They're like, I don't know if I can be a part of this, so I'm going to hang back. Or once I get strong enough. There was a woman and her husband came up and she had this whole fear about, well, I don't want to get too muscular.

And her husband said, well, look at that girl. She's pretty cute. And I came and talked with them and I'm like, listen, yeah, you don't you don't have to take it to walk to the end of the earth and be this big, strong person. It's like you can just move weight. And she and I had to like literally pep talk her and say why are you saying no before you even try would you at least promise me you try it's super you know it's super training gym it's open on sundays it's free please show up and by the way these two were people that could stand to move you can tell that there is a sedentary lifestyle behind

what the life they've built and it was it was cool that she was like okay i'm gonna try and so i think that like what was neat coming off of yesterday is there were more women that were willing to try because they saw women competing. And that, to me, makes the weekend great. I mean, granted, I love that I hit my bench press. 176 pounds, point four with a slingshot. Well, you know, it goes both ways, too, because we have guys. We'll pause. We'll just gloss past it.

We'll have guys that. But that was the cool part. We'll have guys that we But that was the cool part. We'll have guys that will talk about coming in here and they're like, I'm not strong enough to go there yet. Right. I need to build up. I'm like, no, this is where you build up that strength. And I was really proud of my brother.

He took a whey out of wine. I was really proud of my brother yesterday because he did like, I think he benched like 225 or something. Oh, yeah. So he didn't care that the weight was, I mean, he's benched over 500 pounds and stuff like that before. He's got a torn rotator cuff. He's a recovering alcoholic.

He's got all these things that he has overcome and he's just there to compete and he's there to put it on the line and he's there just to do all the same stuff that we're doing. But no different, right? Like I've pulled seven in the past and other things like that, but I don't have a cooler deadlift in my memory than the one I had yesterday. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And I think people get caught up on looking at PRs or top guys or championships or winning, and what they miss with people like us, lifers, right, is it's fucking effort. It's not the total. It's not the weight on the bar. It's effort. Yeah. That's what I care about. And that's what we talked about going into it. What's the goal of this? Is the weight on the bar. It's effort. Yeah. That's what I care about. And that's what we talked about going into it. What's the goal of this is I want my third

attempt to be fucking heavy. Yeah. Whatever that number is, I want it to look like it was a max. Right. And it sure did. Right. Yeah. I didn't, I don't think I had 601. How good was the intensity when he went up there? Just gnarly. I was like, who was that guy? Yeah. I haven't really, I've, I've seen Matt compete before. I've seen a lot of video and stuff. And I think you're very comfortable with Highland Games. And you're charismatic. Like, he'll get the crowd into it.

He gets all fired up. People were more fired up when you did your deadlift than when Brian Shaw did it. Right. Although, in Shaw's defense, people were just so excited with filming. They just didn't have another hand to clap with. But, like, they were so amped when you went. It was bananas in that way. But it was more of, like, a tunnel vision.

I can see that he was, you know, working through a process. You know, like, you had how many knee surgeries? Seven. Shit. Seven. I want to know what you say to yourself. You're pacing. You're mouthing the lyrics of the song.

You're like the tiger in the cage. I see paint like what what is your thought process it's it's a hundred like so that's you know part with the brand right below whatever so it's the always party part and it's that situation that like whatever the challenge is let's commit and be fucking fully in like right now let's turn that switch and let's go full at it that this is the only thing in the world let's go and it's fucking let's party this is it man let's this is what it's for like you get the butterflies and you get all that and you get that like that extra ramp up of energy that doesn't come from training because it's it's pass fail now this is the test so anything real specific you were thinking of before you did a deadlift like anything about

like fuck this knee just the kind of thing yeah definitely the fuck this knee right you know what i mean like it was a big moment of being able to say i spent i spent 17 weeks in the last 18 months on crutches you know i've had not being able to walk upstairs and do stuff like that. And there was a big portion of that has been the chipping away at rehab and doing the smart dance. I know, you do it every morning. And it's doing the little things that are so fucking boring. But that's the work.

That's where it lives. I didn't pull 600 today without all of those days. What's more powerful than overcoming self-doubt? You know, there's like nothing more powerful in the world than you doubt yourself. And you, you always kind of said it in your head that it's been said by other people, but it's really just been your own inner monologue. You were the one that lets it live on. Yeah. You were the one that gave it credit. I was, place. I was on a USO tour with Billy Blanks. Name dropper.

Huh? What'd you say? Name dropper. Oh, I'm going to just pick up that name I dropped off. Double B as I call it. There we go. Oh, double B. Yeah, double B.

And it was funny because I was, I'd never met him, but I'm like, oh, the Tybo guy. You know, I'm like, listen, we go to base to base. You're on the Blackhawks moving around. And, you know, I was with the Marin Gladiators, so we're playing tug of war. We're playing dodgeball with them. We're just having a blast creating. Dodgeball, there's the accent. But Billy would like do a morning class, and he would sit everybody down.

And I was like, oh, Billy, why am I going to give him Tybo? You know, and one morning I went, because we we become friends and he's still a friend of mine. And well, beyond the fact that it was hard as shit, he sat me down and he goes to this repeat after me. He's like, I have I have the power, the power to work. I have the power to succeed. I have the power to believe everything. And it's like I have I was like, I have the power to quit. And have the power to believe in everything. And it's like, I have, I was like, I have the power. He's like to quit. And it was like, oh, and like he brought, it was like, he just led us down a path of like, you have the power to do all these great things, but you are

also the person that chooses when you quit, when you stop, when you have self-doubt and you let that be the louder voice. And I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. And I, and I was like, man, this American gladiator kept crying during a taibo class 100 i was like oh man like put the head on you know but that to me i'll never walk away with it and like and i like i had things coming up and be like put the power on he's like what what do you want to believe today it just i was like yeah man sensei yeah well it makes sense that he's like that because he was a really great athlete oh my gosh he's one of the best yeah one of the best but it's like he allowed he didn't allow the self-doubt to have the voice right that's what we end up giving too much credit

to all the time and if you have a mistake and if there's a failure he didn't let that be well then I'm like then that's who I am going forward. What are the, what are the barriers of entry for women to get into lifting? Because as you're saying, a lot of people saw yesterday, there's the thing about muscle. Um, I've kind of recognized in commercial gyms, a lot of women, they feel, um, I think they feel weird in like the man's zone, like where the dudes are like lifting in front of the mirror and stuff like that. And it seems to be, I'm sure it's some men as well. It's not just, it's not just women, but you know, you see that being kind of a hurdle. The women might hang out and it's even set up when you first walk into a gym, all the cardio equipment's right there. And so you don't really

have to go, you don't have to be all in, you don't have to, let's party, you don't have to be all the way in. You can just go into the front of the gym and kind of hang out there get your workout in and and take off yeah so what do you think some of the hurdles are uh there's two main that i kind of that hit me right away um the first headline was i thought physical literacy and i think that they're we're evolving i think culturally i mean listen it wasn't that long ago back in the 70s and you know a gym in your hotel was like are you kidding right yeah yeah yeah you're right and now because of that the body build i mean back from jack lane to then you look look at um oh why am i from suzanne summers to jane uh help me From Suzanne Somers to Jane.

Help me. Fonda. Fonda, thank you. You know, they made it cool to move again, and then the bodybuilding community made it cool to lift, but it was very male-dominated. And so now the men kind of got a jogging start on the chicks. But when I say physical literacy, there's a weird insecurity of, I don't know how it's going to look.

I don't know how it's going to look I don't know how it's going to go and that makes people uncomfortable I'm like I'm going to you look at the weights you see people moving they're moving so good I don't want to look like an idiot I want to just do the elliptical thing

it makes sense it's like being in gym class when somebody's really shy and they can't kick the ball or whatever it is they're supposed to do one of the things I struggle with the most whether it's Biggest Loser or clients or people that stop me when I'm speaking it's they're supposed to do. One of the things I struggle with the most, whether it's Biggest Loser or clients or people that stop me when I'm speaking, they're nervous to be revealed that they don't know how.

What will it say about me to go in the gym and be like, hey, bud, and by the way, you're benching doing whatever. By the way, if you are listening, please go ask for help. People in the gym are there for you. We love it. I love being asked questions. But the thing is, no one was born with it. You know what I mean?

That's what I'm saying. I love it. Listen, don't ask me where my socks are from. But like, yeah, like don't just talk to talk to people in the gym that are training. But we are there as resources. We love newcomers. We love you coming to the gym and being part of the community. Because one day, a long time ago, someone helped me. And whoever helped me, someone helped them.

And that's why it's the system of together and belonging. So it's that physical literacy. I think it's teaching people younger and sooner that how to move their bodies, how to feel comfortable, and then it's okay to ask for questions. I think too, it's like there is a separation with the male, the female, and I don't know where the trend started, where it's like, oh, the trend. Oh, what'd you say? Where the trend started where it's like oh the trend oh what'd you say where the trend started oh yeah oh sorry i'm glad we cleared that up um but where it's like if men are lifting that's their thing and i have to be separate and kind of do something different even at summer strong last year you know it was a really amazing event because you've got all all these men and there's one main platform

at headquarters there at soar next and the men are going and building up and it's funny you guys there see it's like a lifting meet that like there's still only 400 pounds in the bar so they don't need to jump yet because they're going to lift six seven whatever it is and the but the platform was long enough i was like i'm going to throw a barbell down here oh yeah and i'm going to move with uh with you guys when we're working and the girls are And the girls are like, you can do that. You're allowed to. Is that okay? I was like, yeah, you want to.

What do you want to do? She's like, well, I'm only at like 45 pounds. I was like, great. It's the effort. It's not the number. Let's move. Let's work the technique. And of course, yes, you have to have gym etiquette.

But it's almost somebody saying, it's okay. You do belong. And showing that it's okay. It's like, it's access. I don't know. And I think that also men, I don't know, maybe women need to be asked access i don't know and i think that also men um i don't know maybe women need to be asked i don't know because i didn't i think there's a lot of you know intimidated to it you know speaking from my wife perspective who's only kind of you know has

been with me for 11 years and i've lifted i've never not trained the whole time we've been together and she's only got into lifting within the last year. Right. Right. And so it was, she was intimidated. And part of her intimidation, right, was anytime she's ever been to the gym and didn't grow up as an athlete or doing any of these things, she's gone with me to things.

And she's like, well, these are what people in the gym look like. And it's you or a Brian or Kelly or any of these other people. And I'm like, no, they're normal people. Just come to a fucking CrossFit class with me. That's what the nail on the head is. She feels like it's got to be a certain way for her to join. These women are like, it's got to be X amount of weight for me to be on the platform with those guys.

I think that's the biggest mistake. Let yourself off the hook. Just show up and then move what you can. You're going to progress. But it's why people don't go to the gym even to hit cardio like I don't have the energy today probably not gonna get a lot of mileage in I won't be able to go very fast I'm not gonna go I'm like I literally eight times out of ten did I

get to the gym I promised my own Jenny you can you can walk if you want on the runs you don't have to go heavy and I literally I let my size I let myself I let myself off the hook. I'm like, you don't have to, you can do the minimum. And I will promise you as I have myself, I always end up transitioning heavier. I always end up turning that walk into a job and do it. Of course. There's so many, there's so many days too, that I'm with you, like, you know, just doing the daily work, like going to the gym. And it's just like, man, just some days I'm stoked and I want to go lift. Right. And there to the gym and it's just like man just some days i'm stoked and i want to go lift right and there's other days that it's work and in someone that loves it and i've got a gym in my garage and all this type of stuff like i have as few excuses not to lift as anyone

on earth and there's days that some days i just have to say is like just fucking get in there and get started and the rest will sort itself out if in 30 minutes you've been into it and you're still hating it, call it a day. But that's the thing. So what's our solution, right? Because the three of us standing here are lifetime lifters. Right, right. We understand that we just got to get there and we'll start to go.

That's not the big demographic. They don't have that confidence. They don't have evidence that that's going to happen because they haven't tried. I think education can help just making people understand that your workout doesn't have to look anything like some of the stuff that we're doing. And your workout doesn't have to look like even remotely close to any physical exercise that you ever done before. That's been really hard. Somebody made the statement recently that your exercise should never have, should never need anything special at all, even in terms of your clothing. So they're just like, it's a mistake

to think that I need to take all this stuff off and I need to put this specialty stuff on and then I need to go to a gym. It's like you just created a lot of barriers for yourself. You can, what you're wearing right now, what we're all wearing right now, we can go outside and go for a walk. Even if we were in a suit, if you were in a dress, we could all still go for a walk. There's still, you know, there's, we can break down some of the barriers if we just try to simplify things a little bit and, and look at it for what it really is. We're either trying to build some muscle, which sometimes takes a little longer and just, you have to be in the gym for that. That's just, there's no real way around that. And, and the other thing is we're trying to burn some calories and burning calories you can do that whatever way you like you can go for a walk you can go for a bike ride

it's a bit interesting because culturally we've i mean the child obesity epidemic is is swiftly rising and it's um because we don't play anymore. Right. You know, I remember, especially in the summers or weekends, I would play until it kind of got dusk. Yeah, it was everybody's. You needed to be home before you heard mom's voice. Streetlights, man. Yeah. All the pictures when I was a kid. Outside, playing, nature walk, in the dirt.

Sweaty. Yeah. That's why I got the name smelly. Totally. But, and listen, I love technology. I love that we can connect through cell phones and other devices, and there's really great opportunities of communication. But we've replaced play with a lot of sedentary stuff.

I mean, even at the gym yesterday at the complex, there were these young kids kind of like hanging and doing their parkour together. It was this really cool community. And then I looked down, and there were these five kids all like nine and or eight yeah little kids i saw you saw okay i'll like you do and i was like man i remember as a kid i was like i would jump in and like ford roll or cartwheel with that said yeah i didn't have the option of an ipad when i was eight that's what i'm saying yeah i think i would have not handled it well because we're

playing a lot we just need to create, I keep going back to physical literacy, we've got to create opportunities to move and to play more. Yeah. Our society has definitely lost some of the physical culture that we've had from PE. Well, and jobs are less physical, too. I think play is a good word. Like, maybe people should look at their exercise as just that. Oh, totally.

It might be a little easier, because then it's, like, I did some jiu-jitsu and I think you did as well Yeah, I've recently started Kyle Kingsbury. He's a fucking black belt in jiu-jitsu in your black belt. Yeah Yeah, yeah, I mean he's you know, highly decorated as a former UFC fighter and everything I don't I don't know how to do any of that. It's it's fucking embarrassing. It's like demoralizing Like I don't I've have terrible mobility terrible mobility you know but he's you're rolling like he didn't make fun of me one time i mean afterwards you know we talked we're just guys yeah of course got some trash right but while we're doing it he's just literally walking me through it and i think the block that we have in our head is that oh my god like if i work out with

jen she's gonna like she's gonna tease me because i can't do this exercise or how many times i'll get like oh i can't work like i just lift how many times I'll get like, oh, I can't work. Like, I just lift so much less than you. I'm like, well, the fucking weights come off the bar, man. It's crazy, right? We could just swap it out. But it goes deeper. It's in the psyche.

It does. Like, what? People don't want to embarrass themselves. And I don't know where it was assigned embarrassing to learn. It's the failure avoidance thing, right? I was talking to Kelly Sturett, and I was like, we're going to sign up and do seminars together. I want to learn.

I'm okay learning. What's embarrassing is being the same. Staying the same is embarrassing. I agree. That is embarrassing. I know the hurdle is hard. He said something to me. He's like, Jen, you're at the top of the food chain.

It's easy not to learn. You are the expert. You are here. What do you need to learn for us? And most people have this feeling like, for me to admit that I don't know, like I don't know the proper setup for a deadlift or I don't know the proper mobility stretch for my scap, then I'm revealing that I'm not the expert.

It's like, no, I want to keep expanding and learning and growing because if I think I have all the answers, I am going to be a poor, poor representation and coach for you. That's the biggest problem with someone who thinks they know everything is that they don't learn anymore. And you can always point them out because they're really insecure. And those are the same people that won't credit people with stuff too. And it's like, how does it hurt me to say I learned that from Matt Vincent?

I think it actually helps me. It's like, oh shit now they're these guys are all in this like powerful network and they're sharing information with each other all the time i've paid for very few if none like seminars or any of this in my entire course of power lifting this and that and it's all been getting to spend one-on-one time with a guy like you or Jim Wendler or being in Gary Frank's gym or yeah you know what I mean like it was it was traveling to go learn from people one-on-one before the rest of this had taken off and that's what I wanted to do I was like man I don't want to just read about it I'll go get in front of this person and experience it yeah and I think people do get caught up in its failure avoidance. Well, you know those people that are like,

ah, you know, I didn't do great, but I mean, I didn't even train for it. Like, fuck you, man. Commit. Like, it's okay to put it on the line. Yeah, but Matt, if I fully tried, then I could actually fail. And that is something that people… What's wrong with failing? Failure is such a good teacher that success isn't. But you, again, you have years of evidence of that.

They don't. Right. But that's why we share it, right? Because that's who you should be listening to is the people with years of evidence. You know, guys like us or, you know, people that are lifers saying the best thing I ever did was when I was 13, I grabbed a barbell. That's the greatest thing I've ever done in my life. Everything else that has been great and strong for me has stemmed from that. Right. But for you, it's a barbell for Chris Cornell. Maybe it was the guitar, right? Sure. Of course. Right. You know what I mean? Or Prince who couldn't get the cord, couldn't get the cord and working and working and working and working and working just like the thousands and probably now millions of reps we've all had with some sort of bar it is you've got to find

that conduit so listen I like movement because it's a this is just happens to be the vehicle I use to help people understand that growth and you teach them that they can move the inch they said well I moved an inch maybe I can do yeah maybe let's just play with the idea right marinate but that's the thing and I think I think that there's a there's a greater question. I mean, we're all in the wellness fitness background, but like the greater question is why aren't people taking that step to try to risk? Yeah. How do we get them to do it? Yeah. When I was coaching high school football, there was a lot

of kids that were really apprehensive about like, you know, jumping in on certain lifts and stuff. And they would try to they would try to hide., uh, I had things set up. It's like 40 kids. It's in a very small room. The room's probably not much bigger than this room. So it was really, it was really insanely packed, you know? And so what I was thinking was, okay, I'm going to get about half the group outside. They're going to do the sled and they'll do drills and they'll do stuff like that. I'll have the other half in here. And I had it all mapped out in my head. It was going to like work out perfectly. But what happened was, is, is most of the kids, anytime that they weren't in my eyesight or in the eyesight of some of the captains of the team and stuff, they would just

kind of dick around and they weren't getting involved and they weren't doing some of the exercises. And so I got everybody together and I said, Hey, you know what? You guys are so scared to fail that you're not even trying anything. And I was like, what is something that you guys would like to see me try that would be embarrassing for me? One kid right away yells breakdance. Oh, shit. I was like, here we go. So I did the worst version of breakdancing that anyone has ever done in the history of the world. It's a world record, I think.

But the entire class laughed and everybody laughed. And I was like, I just, you know, it was. And I'm not that outgoing in that way. Yeah, I'm still alive. Yeah, I'm fine. Nothing fucking happened, right? Okay, so let's, I mean, look at where that source. Because I don't remember being that bad as a kid.

Like, I just feel like you've got to look at now. And people keep saying this idea of perfection. It's not about perfection. It's about comparison. don't remember being that bad as a kid like i just feel like you've got to look at now and people keep saying this idea of perfection it's not about perfection it's about comparison and somehow through through now social media media it's comparing whether it's a bench whether i've got to go through the filter to make my biceps as big as marks i you know whatever it is or my butt no i get plenty plenty there but but it becomes this we and we're off now we're just pondering you're right the peach understandably yeah yeah the peach we can do this whole rest of the podcast and emoji um emoji time it is a comparison game and i think that we've we've we've really taken a lot of steps back through that.

It's something that I've seen recently is that comparison is the enemy of happiness. Because if you can just kind of stay focused on you and your progress because everyone, not everyone's going to be a world champion, not everyone's going to be very lean, not everyone's going to be this, But you can always make progress. But that's how it was before, but now it's in my face. I picture what you just said being a meme at a urinal. Like in the actual urinal? Two guys at a urinal checking each other out.

Looking at their hogs. What did you just say? Peter Hawking. Comparison. The enemy of happiness. The enemy of happiness. There you go. That's a good meme

yeah nice visual yeah but isn't it it'd be put like Smokey standing next to Brian Shaw that's right

that's exactly what I'm talking about I can't wait you just have to assume that guy's walking around with a hammer right oh yeah has to be

yeah otherwise it wouldn't make any sense yeah even if it's just proportionate. Yeah. Most are. Yeah.

It just weighs. It's like a baby arm. Yeah. I haven't really. I don't want to talk. Poor Brian. I'm not. Brian, I'm not talking about your unit.

Yeah. It's gear. Gear. Anyway, you've been in this industry for a long time. And as Mr. Kelly Sturette put it, you're at the top of the food chain. You've told us before on our podcast how you've gotten there and told us some of the story of Biggest Loser and some of that stuff. What are some of the things you're doing right now?

I know that you said you have a thing with Dr. Oz coming up. It's actually tomorrow. So by the time this airs, it'll be. Oh, my God. Yeah. Tomorrow? Yeah. I go Dr. Oz tomorrow and then live with Kelly and Ryan on Tuesday.

What is some of this stuff about? What are you doing? It's just me being awesome. Nice. Hell yeah. That's why I get invited to stuff. Here's the fun part. You know, you go through this industry and.

I try to be awesome. And I haven't heard anything from Dr. Oz. Maybe. He hasn't called. Maybe check your spam. Yeah. Spam full. It goes in there a lot. Probably in the voicemail or something. I'll haven't heard anything from Dr. Oz. Maybe check your spam. Yeah, spamful. It goes in there a lot. Probably in the voicemail or something.

I'll look later. It's Wizard of Oz. He might have typed the number in wrong when he texted you. Yeah, I'm sure. I'll check it. No, but it's fine because, listen, at the end of the day, we're building relationships just like we're all here today, and I think the people at the top of the food chain in my mind,

we get that contribution is the way forward, not competition. I like that down. That was good. Yeah. I like that. Could that be a meme as well with men in a yearbook? Maybe.

We'll work on that one. Ladies and girls. So I get to go and I get to teach really cool fitness stuff. I mean, obviously my book, Diet Right for Your Personality Type, that's a topic we get to talk about. And I think that there's this way forward of looking at the individual as an asset

versus they feel like they're a burden or the problem. And these amazing people apparently trust me to lead their audience to a better you. That's awesome. Here's a question for you, Jen. So with where you're at and everything, do you feel you're at the top of the food chain? Absolutely not.

Of course not. No way. It's a funny thing because, you know, you think Pinnacle. I mean, it's like if I could just get to that place and it's like I'm there and I think, you know, it's like ordering. I don't know. It's like you spend all this time like climbing this mountain and you get up there and you're like, oh, my God, there's another mountain over there. It's way taller. Or the mountain's not what I thought it would be. Like, listen, TV is really cool, but

there's so much more I want to be able to do. And now people aren't even watching that much TV anymore. And so my goal is now, okay, how do I do what I love doing and that I'm specifically great at and get that out to more people? ultimately you know certain endorsement deals I've had or even the biggest loser it's very limiting in my reach although it seems counterintuitive it's like oh how many million a week we turn into loser but out of hours and hours of filming every week I've got a 42 minute episode when you take out commercials and I've got like a clap and a tear down my face at the way and I'm like you really should have seen the three minute conversation I had with my contestant

because that was life-changing and that was fucking powerful and it doesn't show because we got 42 minutes. Tremendously time-consuming and you don't have time for yourself. Listen,

money's great. It's great to be like, hey, NBC, I'm on the show, but what am I really doing? Am I really making impact? Is there change? Yes.

I had a kid yesterday that said he used to be 400 pounds and I watched him on the show and it got me started. That was like, oh, thank God. Cause man, I'm like, I really work hard there and I don't think I'm making a dent in anybody. So the goal now, the way forward is like, listen, TV is cool. That's always going to be a great opportunity, but it's looking at other conduits of communication that I can do to help people. So it's great to be on the advisory board for Shape Magazine. I write a column every month.

I host their Shape Half Marathon. These are really fun things, right? But I'm also now looking and working with different companies and building out opportunities and tools for people to help them in their daily lives. Because it's my duty to provide people with resources that work because they deserve it. For a year, I've been talking about a podcast. told me like you got to do it what are you waiting for i'm like you're totally right mark bye and i didn't do it once and i'm starting a podcast this year i have no idea what it's going to be called uh mark's going to be on it um matt we're you know this this has gotten better she said her people are going to call mine about scheduling it. Yeah.

And if you don't get notification, do check your spam. But the reality is it's like, okay, because to me, social media, I'd literally rather pull out my eyelashes because it's just such a limiting

conduit of communication. Are there things I can do? Post some cool words? That's where everybody's mind is at, too. I know, but it's just such a limiting conduit of communication. Are there things I can do? Post some cool words. That's where everybody's mind is at, too. I know, but it's visual. But did you look at your top nine? My top nine, I don't have a shirt on in one. Or pants, many of them. Keep your clothes on.

Yeah, but those are the only nine all year. Out of 365 days, those are the likes. And there was a few transformative from my before and after picture because I'd never put that up before. And I was kind of like, this blows. That's not what I want. Did you even fucking read what I wrote? Because we were driving here from the airport

and he was like, I made my own top nine. I know what they say my top nine is. And he picked out the top nine moments of Hila's life that he was most proud of that he posted. And it bothered me. It almost made me want to boycott Instagram. by his likes and he picked out the top nine moments of his life that he was most proud of that he posted and It like bothered me almost when we want to boycott Instagram How do you get past some of that because I don't know you you are attractive you have a good body And so like how do you get I mean and you do want to show people because you want to show people like I I'm living Like this is my life and this is not a this is not a big because I know you know Brooke ends and you both

Have been like spoken very highly of her. I can She-Hulk in a fucking, give me two weeks. I know what my body can do. I know what my body looks like. I know I can be, like, my dad always jokes, he's like, you're Corey Everson. If anybody knows old school bodybuilding, she is it. Like, step aside, Lena Murray. Corey Everson was the most beautiful, sexy, strong, built woman,

like the muscle bellies on that chick. And that's what I fucking look like. I'm so lucky. Thank you, mom and dad. Like I got, I won the genetic lottery. Okay. And so I realize your brother did. Yeah. At least he knows though. That's the positive. I know what my body can do, but if I use that, and by the way, it's not for you. It's not for the guys that are girls. I mean, listen, there are some aspirational people that would look at that, but to me, if I share that and give that over to everybody, what do I have for myself? What am I trading to feel valued, right? And then what do I save for the man that's in my life?

Have you already got it all right like listen I posted a picture of my ass my birthday cuz I was like I'm 35 I look great and that was my moment to do it but like and that was for me but like if you take that turn you'll never come back from it and forget like social media you'll never come back up here you know and that's I'm not willing to trade this i look at social media with kind of how it fucks people up and this and that and i try to think about it that or the cell phone or the technology that we've got as kind of old um custom auto thing where he's talking about you know the hero and the coward both experience fire the same way and that's what that's what this is right that this thing can either be a thing that fucking burns your house

down or builds your business all through your cell phone it's the same fucking tool yeah and it's going to be how you decide to interact with it and what you want to get out of it and if everything you want to get out of it is validation then you're fucking using it wrong and then you're not going to find i'm using it the right way and it's still hard not to feel that way. Mark literally pep talked me yesterday. I started crying. You're like, worry about the outgoing message. Outbound.

Outbound. Worry about, not worry. Let that be the focus. Yes, guys, I read your comments. I go through them. I try to respond, you know, to put out a note. And you can do a decent amount of that stuff. It's looking at too much of other people's stuff is where we really run into problems.

And how many of us, I'm guilty, how many of us have seen a rude comment and then you check out the person's? Oh, it's the worst, yeah. It's like, what the fuck? Why am I even? Why have I wasted 30 seconds of breath on this? You're like, how did I get in this situation? Like, am I that fragile of a person? Yeah, we are.

And we should be. I think that's a beautiful thing, to be vulnerable, to be open, to say, yeah, ow, that fucking hurt. Don't say that I look ugly. Don't say I look like a dude. Don't say I take steroids. Don't say I fucking edit my pictures. That bothers me. But here's the thing.

That's true. I also know the difference. Jen. I've seen it, Jen. Oh, my God. She had a bucket of them in the truck, dude. Yeah. Stop. It's a bucket. That's a bucket of them in the truck. Yeah. Stop. It's a bucket. That's how you lift.

We saw you lift yesterday. You're clearly... She had a bucket of them in the back. She just pushed her hands in. No, but I struggle there less than I do with comparison. Because I can tell you what, a lot of these thriving, I would say, quotation finger

thriving accounts, I know these women,, I would say quotation finger, thriving accounts, I know these women. And I'm like, you don't know, A, what you're talking about. B, you're not collaborative. You're rude to people. You literally just show your tits. And I don't agree. I think you're representing our community poorly.

And yet you're getting rewarded for it. And unfortunately, it's going to separate us as women because now I feel less than you because you're getting more likes but you actually feel less than me and that's why you're being uncomfortable with me because you know you need to show your tits to get the likes. Despite the use of this would you ever negative comment on someone's shit? Never once. Right? No. If I have something to say I will say it to you. And I heard someone say this find me a negative book review from someone who's ever written a book because you know the fucking work it takes right yeah and I think that that's the truth right like I think there's some

like there's nobody who's a professional who's put in the work and knows what the work takes in any field that's a true professional who will shit on the work of someone else. Yeah. And it sucks that we're wired to see the negative and that's the one that reads out out of 100 comments, you know? How does that happen? It sucks.

It sucks. But it's the truth. And at some point, you just got to be able to say, fuck them. Yeah. They don't have to like what I do. That's cool, man. I've been in a bunch of different spots with it all. You know, like I, right now I'm in a spot where if I feel somebody says something that's wrong, I will still go in and correct them.

I understand that it probably doesn't do anything, but I'm also thinking about some of the other people that are reading through some of this stuff. So if somebody says, you know, hey, you're full of shit, you're on steroids, I'll be like, yeah, I've talked about that before. I'm in a film where I openly talk about it. Or if they just say something that I feel is like way off base, they might say, you know, why are you demonizing carbohydrates or something? Then I'll go in and say, I've never said that they're bad. This is a diet that I chose. I chose to go this route because I personally have a really hard time controlling

the amount of carbs. It's like a free-for-all for me of car, like, it's like a free for all for me. You know, I'm like, it's on and I'll eat all those peanut butter cups, that wonderful peanut butter cup gift you gave me. And so I just try to go in and occasionally correct people. But when it comes to comparison, it can be so dangerous because you're, I think we have a tendency to not think about all the awesome shit that we have and all the great things that are going on. Like it's not enough to be a host on Biggest Loser.

It's not enough to be part of Shape Magazine. It's not enough to do these certain things. And we never stop and think, fuck, like what we're doing is really great. How do we make that more optimal? How do we just sit down and how do we figure out how to just make this better rather than looking outside of what we're doing well and and it's funny too the perception that we assign becomes our reality and i was hosting this great event in new york it's called strong new york and we did one for women one for men and proceeds go to the november foundation obviously for the men and breast cancer research for women. But I hosted this event,

and Chris Miss Abbott came through as one of our lead speakers. And I was interviewing in the beginning, and she's someone that I'm like, God, she's got a formula, man. Like, what am I missing? How am I not getting it? Do I need to get a tattoo?

Should I take some sexy photos with some flames and shit? Do I go back on reality TV? Why? Because she's this like really special woman and i'm like and i'm comparing myself i'm like what am i missing how am i not getting it what man do i need to hide you know and i'm looking and rearranging all my stuff and i'm like well what's a woman you look up to and she's like oh it's you and she started to break down why she looked up to me and i was like well I feel like a big dummy right

because I am someone that deserves to be looked up to as does she and yet we're doing things differently and that's what makes it so great right that there's only one Christmas Abbott and there's only one Jen Wieterstrom and I don't want to replicate I want to be Jen and that's neat that's what my mom told us growing up she's like how do you know somebody doesn't want to be the next she said it in the movie the next Chris Bell bell you know and he wanted to be arnold he wanted to be this or that she was like can't change who you are you know basically stay in your lane yeah and if you work hard and you do the right things and you do things uh that maybe you don't want to do when you don't normally want to do them and you keep working hard and over a period of time somebody will say i want to i

would love to be like matt vincent i would love to own my own brand and do this and do that it was uh my first cover ever was muscle and fitness hers and Sean Preen who just passed away yeah RIP yeah um he like gave me a shot like it was so funny because there's a muscle fitness like two years before and there's a stupid Iron Maiden section and he like put me in it and like, cool. And I remember he wrote like in a hotel scrap like paper. Like, I feel like this is the beginning of something big for you. And he sent me the magazines. And, you know, he really believed in me. And with all the stuff going on in freaking Hollywood and the world right now about male mentors that misuse their power.

Sean was someone that was like completely lifted me up and respected me and did it for all the right reasons. So anyway. Sanely kind, yeah. guess sanely kind so his memorial is actually today yeah uh but what's neat is so he put me on my first cover and in the same month arnold was the cover of the men's muscle and fitness and i was the female so of course we threw a party at Gold's Gym and and and I'm there and of course Arnold is I mean I had a picture of Conan the Barbarian in my bedroom as a little girl like at my second grade birthday party that's so funny that's a very different girl the Conan the Barbarian and are like, it's totally fine. I had My Little Pony posters. He's hacking the snake at the orgy.

My parents are like, the girls are like, oh, my God. And I'm crying because they turned it off. I mean, Arnold was a big part of my life. And this is the story I told because I, at the end of our event where we celebrated what we were doing, I introduced Arnold. And literally that day, I'd gotten a call from my father, um, because he's a personal trainer. And it was funny because he was like, my client's little girl are doing a Jen Widerstrom biggest loser workouts at recess. She's like putting kids at her elementary school through workouts and because she looked up to me and she was eight years old and saw me and did that

and then I'm looking at Arnold nice with the cry I'm like and when this woman was eight years old I had your photo I get with Conan and everyone's like laughing I'm like up on my wall because he had a long funny last name like me he had muscles and I did and it was cool and nobody I knew had muscles and he talked funny and I went to speech class and they made me feel like normal and I was like I remember being like everyone wanted to be like a nurse or I'm gonna be like the astronaut I'm like'm going to be Miss Olympia eight times and beat Arnold. Granted, that has not come to pass yet.

Still working on it. Still working on that one. But he, by being him, allowed me a start and that start allowed me to be someone for that eight-year-old

and it's like, that is exactly what your mom said to you boys and it's like, I live it and it's, but it's funny,

it's conversations like this you need to be reminded too so thank you for saying that because i forgot about that story that's a great story yeah you know i think about your path jen and i think about like what a unique it is you know that people look at this idea and you and i've talked about it a lot over the last couple days this people thinking that there's a finish line that they're trying to reach. And if I can just get this, it all sorts itself out. If I can just do this,

it'll all sort itself out. And I think about yours that like, how many people would have fought for it, fought for it, fought for it. I got signed as American gladiator, right? I got a TV show. We're fucking here. Then it's off the air.

But you don't stop. Then I did this. And I'm on biggest loser and then all these none of these things were the defining jen widerstrom thing these are all things on the path of the hole that makes you none of these were the things you're like well i'm done now this is it we fucking made it yeah I was talking to you yesterday and I was saying like how how many things I've tried people would be like really shocked at how many emails and how many phone calls that I have not no one's returning them no one gave a shit you know and I went through so much of that where I started to kind of believe like maybe I can't maybe I just can't figure this out like maybe maybe my, maybe, uh, you know, having a magazine, you know, in a time when,

uh, the economy is really shitty and print is going out of style. Maybe that is a bad idea. Maybe this, uh, stretchy thing that goes over your chest is a, is a shitty idea because three companies have told me, but over a period of time, and I've been really fortunate. I share this with everybody. Uh, I have awesome parents and I've been really fortunate, I share this with everybody. I have awesome parents and I got awesome people around me and friends like you guys and stuff like that as well. But I have a really good network of people that are, that are, that provide me with enough love that I can be strong enough to still know that that's wrong. Like I can still recognize that I have qualities in me that are good enough for me to act upon some of those things. And if it wasn't for the opportunities that were provided by my

parents, I would not be in any of the positions that I'm in today. But it took that resistance, just like the same resistance we get in the gym. Resistance over time, set after set, rep after rep. But it's the lessons that come from the gym too, right? It's the lessons that come from the gym, I think, that teach us that you still have to do the work. You can't phone it in. There's nobody who gets to be fit or strong without it. I don't care how rich you are, who your parents were, where you started.

Like I don't care how rich you are, who your parents were, where you started. You can't outsource strong or fit or healthy. It all has to be you. And it doesn't matter what your life position is. And so those are the lessons that you get to take from the gym that matter more of the, I know how to, when things plateau, I know how, when I'm hurt, how do we rebuild? How do we get back up after we've fallen? And it's not just hanging it up or this was too much. It's just better than yesterday. Right. And maybe the day before yesterday I pulled 700 pounds and then I have knee surgery.

And now I'm on crutches. Yeah, but I think the misconception is people think that we don't feel that way. At Gladiators, I thought I did make it. I thought it was it. I'm like, Pinnacle, I've been a gladiator for Halloween three times already. This is perfect. I got the costume. And then the show got canceled, and I went into such a deep depression.

Sure. And I literally don't fully know how I got out. I don't, but that's the misconception because people that are in that dark place or faced with the failure or faced with the nose, we all are there. President Obama was, has been there. There's no, no one skips out on that. It's how you choose to move forward. Yeah. Same being hurt. same being any of it. Yep, agreed. You could have let those surgeries end it for you. You know, to go from, look, the last time I competed in my sport, I took second at a world championship.

The last time I competed, I took second at a world championship, and then fucking I'll never throw again. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's crazy. And then it's the realization, too too to deal with on your own time being laid up with crutches or any of this and then you know pain medicine or whatever else right but dealing with the idea that like i fucking found the thing that i got to be best in the world at yeah there won't be a second best in the world thing maybe other than being that

disagree with you right other than maybe being matt. Okay. I can fucking be better at that than anybody else can be. I agree with you. Okay, fine. But I'm a terrible Mark Bell. You know? And so. Although that would probably be really funny. It would be good.

Just start showing up. Let's play with that idea. This is a good one. Matt Bell. Sliding in. Okay. So no one does you better than you. It's okay that

now there's some different goals. That time was a thing and it was awesome. But it can be done. It can be over. And that doesn't change or take any value away from the thing I did. I don't have to be

Matt Vincent, the Highland Games guy. Something we talked about yesterday during the event was you got done with your bench press and then you're like, boom, time to deadlift. Yeah, immediately. You know, that's over with. And you mentioned that that's a thing in Highland Games. And in Highland Games in particular, you got certain shoes and certain things you got to change into and you got to reset and you got to warm up again.

Right. For the next thing. But that's that's a good analogy for life. You you get to somewhere or you do something and then it's like on the next one. As soon as it's over, it doesn't mean that you don't celebrate it. It doesn't mean that you act like a turd all the time and just not, you know, not acknowledge that you did something cool. Yeah. But it does mean that you do need to get your ass ready for the next thing. I, um, years ago I was on the TV set and I got to meet, uh, Mick Foley, you know, the professional rather mankind, professional wrestler. They got thrown off the side of the cage and all this stuff. So he, he wrestled, yeah, he wrestled the undertaker and he got thrown off the cage. It's like one of the most epic things. They show it all the time.

WWE shows it all the time. And he breaks through this table, and he just gets totally jacked up, and there's a bunch of other things that happen in the match, and he breaks his rib. It is wrestling. It is entertainment, but he really did suffer some really devastating injuries. And when I had a chance to meet him, I told him, I said, you know, one of the coolest things I've ever seen, like just in life in general, was the fact that you showed up on Monday Night Raw the next day. So Sunday at pay-per-view gets chucked off the side of the ring.

All this crazy shit happens to him. And then he gets in the ring and cuts this unbelievable promo that's just straight from the heart. He's like crying and stuff and he's saying how like uh he feels that he's not enough for the crowd and how he does all these sacrifices and even him getting thrown off the side of the cage and stuff just it's not enough and he's and basically he kind of like almost uh does like almost a little bit of retirement speech and then because he's crazy and part of his like act he takes a thumbtack and sticks it in his face and goes have a nice day and then rolls out of the ring and i was like i know it sounds really weird that that was motivational to me because it's a weird set of

circumstances with a weird with a weird uh profession right but i was like that was one of the coolest things is you did this crazy thing that will forever be remembered by all the wrestling fans and the next day he still showed up to work you know even even after you know all this shit happened to him me and my brothers were talking about like there's no way he's going to be able to there he was where he was with a concussion his head wrapped up and and and 90 90 other things so with you uh you know doing all these different things and, and, uh, getting into these, uh, positions that you're getting into, uh, what's some of the goal? Like what's, what are some things that are coming up? Uh, I'm, I kind of alluded to finding the right

tools. Uh, I'm basically one big category I'm looking at is sleep so there's a sleep supplement that i'm helping develop and i'm going to be pushing out called som s-o-m ribs it's called barbecue ribs not called barbecue ribs but we will look into that title that'll make it hard to say uh yeah we're launching in about two weeks so by the time this airs it'll be out but the websites get some and it literally people don't realize like one of the foundational things you can do is just sleep more and you'll lose weight or you'll get stronger or you'll be happier or you'll be more focused. I mean, even your long-term memory is supported by your ability to have deep sleep. So this conversation we're having today, if we fuck off and we don't sleep tonight very well, it's going to be hard to sustain the conversation in our brain.

So there's that. That's really exciting. And there's another thing that I've been building. It's a lot of work, but most good things are. So if you look at everybody's online programming, like, hey, Fit Programs by Matt Benson, you know, or like the Kara Styles, all this stuff, I'm really not interested in helping people that are already moving. I can be a resource. I'm a great coach.

I'm going to help you go. But I'm more interested about the millions of people that are desperate to get moving and don't know how to start. And I'm working with a company that we're going to be launching where, like, you go to your doctor and you get prescription for whatever medicine you need for your high blood pressure or whatever's going on. Testosterone. Hey hey it's real and they also get a prescription for jen wieterstrom and there's going to be online coaching that is free for them through their doctor's office and then we're going to build all that there'll be a whole supplement line that goes with that so the people get me as a coach in their on their computer in their hand of me helping them to get started moving so it's not about like let's bank press let's do you know medicine ball throw it's like literally let's teach people to get moving and healthier I mean listen biggest loser the first

three weeks people are all off their medicine after just three weeks of a little bit better food and a little bit better movement we're a lot actually because there's very good that's what we do and that's really exciting and then I'm also coming out with my own ring line called Karma Rings no way yeah so it's like the

really safe I'm switching you have to switch listen it's just it's and to me listen I'm single I'm not married

and I this is not just for wedding bands it's for people that are showing progress there's going to be a system of progression with them

kind of like your karate belts and taekwondo yeah so it's going to create a deeper community and with them, kind of like your karate belts in Taekwondo. Yeah, so it's going to create a deeper community. So those are the biggest three. Like a 300-pound deadlift ring or something. Exactly. Like to honor.

And honestly, we just, to form habits, we need reminders. And, like, if you have something on your ring to remind you something, that's important. And then I have a couple other projects that are going, but I'm really excited. I'm really focusing on youth health. I'm excited that you're talking about this stuff because this is stuff we talked about on the phone. I know. I don't even know how long ago. It's coming together.

But, yeah, it does take a lot of time. It just, and it's got to be right, and you can't rush it. I mean, and frankly, another big project I just signed on is the face of all of Shape Activewear. So Shape Magazine has been a great partnership of mine, and now to be the face of the activewear that's inclusive, I don't think a lot of people realize that you can't just take the size small and make it bigger. You have to create plus sizes that are specifically designed and patterned for women

that have any size. So it's a very inclusive brand. So it's like a size zero to size 22 or 24. And not like your husband's t-shirt, you know? It's to create, to find where a woman is on her fitness journey, wherever that is and navigate that with her, with my coaching and support and community. And I was obviously she downsizes, we've got other gear for her there. And so that's really important to me too. So that's shape active where, uh,

it's pretty rad. That's awesome. Yeah. It's super super super inspiring for someone like myself even just listening to you that it's easy for me to think from outside looking in of like somebody biggest loser this tv personality in the fitness industry right that like ah you've got an agent and they just hand you the next thing and you go do it because you're in shape and you've learned some stuff you know but it goes like this you know after getting to spend real time with you and hang out and be friends like it's the same way that i feel about kelly right that there's what you said last night while we were talking that this duty that you've got in you to help these people not the people that are already on the boat But how do we get the people to the boat?

Yeah. Right? Like that type of thing. Or even just consider the boat. Yeah. Even just look at it, right? Yeah, especially people that are on the bubble. Oh, my God. I'm doing this Shape Goal 40 challenge.

And we have a private group that's been growing so quickly. And the amount of stories that are being, I mean, page, screen swipes worth of their photo, their messaging, what they're struggling with, what is their why, really going deeper. Because the reality is it's our responsibility. You can't just do a TV show, make your millions and hang it up and do a couple treadmill commercials. And I'm not going to say who I'm talking about. Okay? That's not how it works. You have to reinvest.

You have to give back. That's it. That's it. Give back or get out. That's it. Let's take a pause for a second because I have to give back. That's it. That's it. Give back or get out. That's it. Let's take a pause for a second because I have to pee really bad and we got like one more topic and then we're done. Okay. Ready to roll? And we're back. All right. We got it. It was like the Zach Morris timeout. Yeah. We have a tough topic to talk about. You know, it's been going on in Hollywood and many other places, many other work environments for a long time. And just for whatever reason, just swept under the rug.

People weren't talking about it that much. And then there's been some huge situations that have happened with Matt Lauer and other people being in the line of fire of sexual harassment. And I wanted to get your perspective on it, get your take on it. I am a person that believes that people should have the freedom to wear whatever they'd like. But at the same time, I don't know how many men that will get to change. I think that a lot of men, uh, have a, uh, certain tendency to go, to go a certain route that they maybe probably shouldn't. That's inappropriate for work, inappropriate if you're in a relationship and so on. But as I mentioned here before, if you put, if you put a pizza inside a powerlifting gym, it's going to get eaten. And I think that if things are too attractive and if these women are dressing really nice, you have a job where you're on TV.

We're going to see some cleavage. We're going to see some legs. And unfortunately unfortunately I think that that is tempting I'm not suggesting that we cover up I'm not suggesting I'm not suggesting anybody really makes any changes I'm just pointing out what I see yeah and I think that it's just very hard uh the same with the construction worker making the uh provocative or you know words uh to the woman walking down the street um I i think that it shouldn't be too much to ask for that person to shut their fucking mouth and not say anything rude

but i i can't see it i can't foresee it in my head changing so we're talking about a couple different things to to have some man bark at me outside his car i don't anticipate ever changing i just don't and cat calls it frankly doesn't bother me. I just think thanks, bro Like don't really give a shit. But when you start to talk about Lauer or Weinstein or some of what's coming up? This is not about attraction. It's not about what these women were wearing It's about power and it's about control and it's a much deeper conversation and I think I think ultimately what we're dealing with is a few things because if you look at the Weinstein case and all these allegations that are happening,

you have to understand that this is at such a level and it was at such a level of assault if these all come through, that's a black and white case. He was wrong, that's bad. And the amount of people that even Quentin Tarantino came forward, he's like, I knew enough and didn't do enough. like I knew enough to do something and I didn't do enough and so there's there's a responsibility I think for I think men and people to be okay keeping other people like it's like accountability factor but you knew I had a set of five to do and I stopped it for you'd be like you

owe me a rep so it's it's it's something as basic as that but there's also something kind of funny happening because now there's this out this waterfall of allegations that are coming out I mean Dustin Hoffman Michael Douglas and and now James Franco and you look at like well 30 years ago this happened with Dustin Hoffman and he's kind of what times were different is it important to acknowledge that times are different, that behavior was different? Is it okay that he got out of the shower naked and asked for a foot rub? I don't know any time that that's okay, if that's exactly what happened. I don't think that's okay.

And it sucks, but I think part of that's the culture, right, that got built into it, which needs to be fucking destroyed or changed. Could be, but why did women feel like they had to do it? There's another great interview with Ian McKellen, but why did women feel like they had to do it? There's another great interview with Ian McKellen, talked about how at the bottom of the, kind of like an actress would give in like her headshot sheet,

and it was DRR, if the letters DRR were at the bottom right of that sheet, it meant director's rights respected. Said, yeah, do I need to, do I want to throw down so I can get this part? That's what DRR means. Like that was it, that was part of it. Has it been taken advantage of?

Yes. Is that wrong? Yes. So it's been built into the culture in different ways. And now you look at, like, a James Franco where people are saying, I was uncomfortable. He's like, I remember us having an okay time. And now where do you draw the line that's saying, I don't want to use you because you guys are married. I'm with a guy, and we're having an interaction.

And maybe it goes further than I kind of wanted. Maybe that's for me, and I think, ah, Jen, you know what? I'm going to do that differently if I'm in this scenario again. I can't come forward three years later and say, yeah, you know, that guy made me uncomfortable. That was consensual. I was a part of it. Am I changing my ways in that situation because I did get uncomfortable

for whatever it was? That's on me to change. But have I been sexually harassed at work and turned the son of a bitch in? You bet. And in a repeatedly bad sexual harassment? Yes. And was anything done? No.

So it's like there are spectrums here where women have to be responsible and be okay speaking up, and I think that's finally happening. But we also kind of have to protect our men because a lot of allegations are coming and there is no due process. How do we know? I mean, the fact that Michael Douglas's name or Dustin Hoffman's and they're thrown in now, I kind of feel differently about those men.

Despite that we haven't gone to trial, it's not innocent until proven guilty with some of this stuff. And I'm not defending. Now I feel differently. And then further, why is it that Terry Cruz can come forward and talked about an experience he had being sexually harassed? And that guy that did it is back at work. No problem. So why are we protecting women and doing this Me Too movement, which is amazing? We're all going to wear black in solidarity. But Terry Crews isn't going to get supported because he's a male?

That's the weird double standard, right? But in general... Because Terry Crews could defend himself. But it's still not right. It's still abusing power. Why is that man... It's the abuse of power. Why is that...

Why can't I... Why don't I know the guy's name? Why don't you know his name? Right. We all know Harry Weinstein. We know James Franco. Right. I don't have a complete answer for you.

You know, being... The show I've been on this fall, Daily Blast Live, we talked about it a lot. It's all live current event show topics. In talking with Al and Jeff, we talk about what do men do? What is the way forward? I mean, I tell you what, he's like, there's a great Keanu Reeves picture, and he's literally in between these two, they're probably Bud Light girls, and he's standing kind of like Jesus. He's like, I'm not putting my hands on them. And they're on either side, and he's like, between these two like they're like probably bud light girls and he's like standing kind of like jesus he's like i'm not putting my hands on him and they're on

either side he's like you can see my hands yeah we're not going to do the taylor swift issue we're not going to have that issue where my hands up the skirt i'm not going to even let there be a possibility of people thinking that open wide think and so it's like now i mean should should there be a greater awareness yes there should There should be awareness by interaction? Absolutely. Should you know your audience? Absolutely. Men have asked me, what do I do? I'm like, ask questions, be clear, make sure, know that you're on the same page.

Yeah. Seems like a lot of them. But at the same time, there's a lot of vendetta. I mean, there's one girl that was- Great area. There's that one woman that was with Matt Lauer. She came forward in the consensual relationship with him, knowing he was married, knowing what was going on. And I consentedented and I just feel so Papa I'm gonna tell my story I go you don't count girl you had your eyes open you chose

that relationship did she say she felt like well he threw his power on me and then I'm like no no you go to one awkward lunch you know you don't go to a second one that's right right right Period. And so there's this weird blur of line in what women come forward that are just lying. Lying, right. Because that, you cannot have this conversation without representing that in the conversation because that's possible. Because there's definitely. Mark, I made a pass at Mark.

Mark didn't like me. Yep. Tell you what, I'm going to go public and say Mark Bell used to send me text messages or emails or blah, blah, blah, right? I've sent you some dirty ones. And the thing is, right? It's true. I've sent some bad ones. The thing is, is that allegation,

is I'm sure that there's cases right now where a male or a female talent or something like that on the way up has said, if you don't blah, blah, blah now, because now there's this pendulum swing of power away from the people in the other chair, to if you don't now, I'll accuse. And that sucks. And it sucks, but there's going to be that pendulum swing back the other way, right? From where we were with the Harvey Weinstein's and these people abusing this power

to the full swing back to now, these people have such an eye on them that they have to be Boy Scouts. Or if you're not, you're fucking dumb right now. What do you think the responsibility is of the woman? Because the woman, in my opinion, is... I understand there's situations where these guys are in power and stuff like that and they're abusing their power. situations where these guys are in power and stuff like that and and they're abusing their power but but for the the women are the kind of the ones that are being pursued uh more more often than not so like just what's the like does a woman have a responsibility to maybe uh maybe uh think a

little bit about the the type of clothes and the way they act and some different things like that i don't even think that situation though is, is the clothes. We're talking about a power thing. This isn't the cat call on the street. This is a guy basically saying, I can change your life. And you're someone who's desperate. Yeah, but is that guy even saying that if you are wearing pants and you're dressed appropriately?

But I was harassed by somebody that we were in the same job role so the power was equal and the way he would come into my dressing room and wouldn't leave and the way the way he would talk to me the things he would say and the way he would touch me and and frankly i hit it and i remember embarrassed to tell my mother she was on task force for in in high in in high school she would teach teach at, yeah, and it's, I wish I could explain better the shame, and the, for me, I was like, I can handle this fucking guy, I can, it's fine, and it just kept persisting, it kept going, and then the hands under the table, and the grabbing, and then what got me is a young woman came forward to talk to me about her story.

And somebody else was sitting there. And she goes, oh, my God, it happened to me as well from the same person. And then we were talking about it. And then I shared my story. And then I was with two other women on set. I'm like, this is what's going on. And one of them had an experience. I'm like, in the last week, this came out of one person's mouth.

And five of us are affected. So now we can just say that this guy's a creep. This is what he does. But the only reason I came forward was because I had the voice that mattered. Out of the group. Because they were like, I can't risk my job. I need this job. Because he's in a position to say, I don't like this person.

They're doing bad work. And by the way, in my case, the hardest part about it, well, nobody was in your dressing room but you guys. We can't prove it. I go, you sure as shit. I was naked. Yeah. Yeah, I was by myself.

You guys don't think that it's increasing the difficulty level of cleaning some of this up? Like, you don't think that what people wear matters? No. You know, I do, To some extent, right? I think walks like a duck, you've got to be willing to deal with what you want to do. You don't get face tattoos and then get pissy that people want to

stare at you. If I wear shorts with my ass hanging out, I expect comments. Absolutely. Or the fact that, yeah, you're going to get these weird messages. You don't get both sides of the coin. You don't get to dress really productive and put off this sexy thing and just show sex appeal as your as your fucking card and then get mad when guys are like hey what's up you're fucking hot i'd like to bang because when you watch the news i mean that's what you see you

see a lot of cleavage you know you see a lot of that right but when in the case of like matt lauer you look at the scenario where they were dressed for work, and he had a button in his office that locked the door behind them. This is not about what they're wearing. No, no, no, no. You know what I mean? That's the different power thing, right? These are different scenarios.

But I think it's the same as a guy's perspective, right? If I want to wear a shirt, let, you know, for an example, you're a dude that wants to wear a shirt that says you're pro-Nazi, expect to get punched in the face. I agree. You decided to put that shirt on this morning.

My question is, is somebody sexually harassed you that respects you? With somebody sexually harassed me that respects me? No, absolutely not. not no i think that so i think i think that the i think the clothes play into the psyche of the whole thing a little bit i think it's uh it's opening up a little bit of an opportunity i'm not saying like anything sexy and anything flattering uh i'm just saying like maybe there should be a little thought like if i can see your bra and stuff then it's the mind starts to wander in places that it probably shouldn't.

Well, it does send an invitation of conversation. It's like, oh, I'm noticing that really short skirt. We're going to see and we're going to notice. But I just feel like if ultimately, listen, the golden rule is the golden rule because it works in all things. There's a great study. It's not about sexual harassment. But 99% of people expect not to be cheated on. 99%, but 75% of people have cheated. Why don't you just treat people the way you want to be treated?

You don't want to be cheated on, don't cheat. But why can't we? I don't want to be sexually harassed, so I don't sexually harass people. It's really that simple. But why do people, they wouldn't want to be harassed, they wouldn't want to be treated that way, but they're doing it. So if you can bring respect and responsibility back into the conversation and let that be the standard, I think we're going to clean things up. But there's definitely over 6 billion people on this planet. And again, I'm glad that there's people listening, but we're now in a spot where the three people holding this conversation aren't in the bell curve. We are people who feel this way already. It'd be like having a talk about race at Berkeley in a college classroom.

No one in that room needs that fucking talk. Do you know what I mean? You're already all there. And that's what's tough. It's the people that, I mean, hell, my old job, working in refineries and going in, and the people I deal with every day are welders and pipe fitters and boiler makers. It's a different world.

And it's a different person that grew up a different way and has a different background. And I'm not justifying any of it. But, right, it's the same that, well, what do you mean Earth is older than 6,000 years? That's what the Bible says. And I've never considered that there's even a fucking different path because of exposure to their life. It's an individual choice. I mean, in the same scenario, very different topic. Of course, I'm forgetting his name, so I'm going to botch it. But there's a young man whose dad was the like one of like the grandmasters of the Ku Klux Klan so he grew up believing living and really celebrating that way of life and

thinking he had like a blog about it that he would write out and then he ended up going to college hour and a half away in the south where there there were different people and ideas. And a few months into college, people discovered his blog, and they're like, you're a clan member? And it was a shitty situation. And then finally, another student said, would you like to come to Shabbat dinner on Friday night at my home? And invited him and said, let's just ask me any question you have and that boy went and had conversations and said but I don't understand this are you telling me but I was taught this he goes actually

this is what it is and went through had open safe conversation and he learned and he came back different and his family disowned him and ultimately his father though and then didn't meet up and did have a conversation and it was there was there was to a degree a peaceful ending but that boy was willing to learn and listen and talk about it and that's not common though no and it but it gets tricky right because say if you if you are a certain way and you pass like what you just said what this kid was brought up in this kkk household or whatever it is, right? That that gets passed on. And so then that becomes,

and then once that's accepted in that family as a thing, that becomes the culture of that family. That's the way. And then when that happens again and that's passed on, now we're in a tradition. And that's what you see in Hollywood. Well, the tradition is, as a director, this is one of the perks. Right.

And I think people come up in that thing and like we just said, you're that guy in, you know, the growing up in the KKK family that just, holy shit, what do you mean this was wrong? Yeah, but here's the thing, and people are getting mad about it. I go, let's not be mad, Let's be excited that the conversation's happening. It's not dying out. It's not going away. Oprah just did a whole speech about it after she won that award. It's like, this is the shift. This is the change.

This is good. Don't be bitter. Let's just go forward. Right. You know, and back to what Mark said, you know, about clothes having to play a role in it. And I think there is some truth to that, right? Because every day there's a choice in what you decide to wear. And that is a conscious effort and should be, you know, at least to some extent, right?

And if, you know, I look at people and definitely think about it like if her bra is out, and there's a way of knowing her bra is out because it was an accident or her bra is out, right? And if her bra is out, I mean, there's things I can immediately think about this type of person. But don't you think also part of the problem is where social media has gone? You've got these accounts of women. Yeah, of course. Literally. This is the best way to get feedback.

I don't like this. Zooming in. Oh, yeah. Zooming in. This is soft porn, in my opinion. 100%. And now that becomes it. And that's what kids are watching.

I mean, I remember looking at... It ends up being pornography about people recognizing it yeah you're you're nuts if you think you have a how many million likes and you're jen seltzer and they're they're they're looking at your the juice you're drinking yeah you know what i mean well maybe it doesn't maybe it helps her. No, but that's where the standard is going, and people think they have to do it. One of the, what's the Kardashian, one of the youngest ones,

she was sitting on her bed, and she had a necklace on and lingerie, and her legs were spread, and her hair was over her face, and she's like, thanks for the necklace at so-and-so. Sleepy time. Oh, what about the pictures that are like that?

What about the photos that are like that where the women are trying to be, like, inspirational? Oh, I can't even. I can't even. You're like, what the fuck? I mean, I'm inspired in a totally different way than what they're talking about. Explain to me. Explain to me why in women's fitness and figure that we still have that butthole pose that they have to do. Does that exist in the men's side of things when they're in board shorts?

I would love to see it. Right. You know what I'm saying is like, if that's not a thing that works in both, like why do we still have to pretend that, well, we can't really assess the work you've done on the backside unless we can see inside of you. Yeah. Yeah. You got to show it all.

Get those. What is that, Tommy Boy? You can stick your head up a butcher's ass. You can stick your it all. Get those. Yeah. What is that Tommy? You can stick your head up a butcher's ass. You can stick your head up a bull's ass, but you get a good look at the butcher's wallet, but you'd rather take Cal's word for it. Yeah. Take his word for it. I think that's close enough. Yeah. Yeah. But I will say, uh, I, I don't have exact solutions, but the fact that we're talking about it is the way forward. And solutions, right, are deciding as a society what the fucking standard should be and what we'll do and then holding that standard.

And that standard has to be held from the top because everything works top down. It gets to be a little tough, too, because you don't want to have too much like censorship you know like if if everyone's instagram was like you know pg-13 or something like that uh it probably wouldn't lead you to wander too much but then 800 million users but then it's yeah but there's there's some consequence to fucking action right and you've got to be held responsible for that too that if this is the way that you have chose to be perceived and post if you're going to be a dude who wants to make lewd comments and post shitty stuff and then you know talk you know trash or be a nazi in your instagram post fucking consequences for that you also get to get shit on you also get to have people fucking dislike you you don't get to say hey man it's my right to decide but you said it's coming from the

top down and the problem is as our president of course we're struggling with his behavior the way he communicates I don't know when Twitter became a platform for our president to actually there's actually a company that makes slides and on one of them has a tweet from him and the other one has a tweet that he has said the complete opposite thing. So that's what I'm saying we talk top-down I mean this is a man that I would be at the same NBC parties with and it was absolutely inappropriate with me it's like and a lot of Americans don't realize that these comments that women have come forward he should be held to that

standard that we're holding at the Weinstein's and everybody else and he's not so it gets tricky because people say because people say they think it's okay because that isn't the time. Or we can stop electing 70-year-old dinosaurs to run our fucking country. Well, we don't have enough time for that podcast, honey. We've been here for 90 minutes already. But that's where I agree. We all do better. Listen, when you know better, do better.

It's like a Maya Angelou quote, I think. Well, it's self-awareness, right? The more that we can push self-awareness is a big part of it. Because one of the things that once you become self-aware, you don't get to fucking go back. You don't get to be like, oh, damn, I didn't know that was a problem. Fuck you. It's a choice. And self-awareness is a big part of the key.

And self-awareness is a big part of the key because most people just float and go through the motions and don't think of anything other than what's exactly in front of them. That this doesn't have a reaction, that this thing I'm going to say didn't have to be calculated. Well, it's because consequence has changed. Right. What's something you learned in the last year that will have a big impact on some of the things you're going to do moving forward? It doesn't have to be the last year, but approximately. Maybe you learned about yourself

business-wise. I have more insecurities than I thought I had. That was really a freaking annoying realization. Fuck. I learned a lot less. It's weird. Go kick rocks, pal. Beat it, nerd. I have a bad knee. I can't kick

rocks. And it sneaks up on you and you have to be continue. It's okay to stay humble and learn, but with the confidence of knowing I'll go forward but it's it's confidence of worth and i think that you said it you made me cry yesterday uh i don't need anybody else and i don't mean that like i got it by myself it's like i'm enough and i have to go into the

forward that this year knowing that what i feel and who i am and what the impact i can make make is enough and it's special and i need to go forward stronger with that voice. I love it. Yeah. All right. That's all the time we got. Strength is never a weakness. Catch you guys later.

I'm exhausted. You're tired from all that talk? All the sexual harassment? Went to bed at 10? Oh, fuck. I cried. Dead asleep at 10 o'clock? Good podcast.

I loved it. You did awesome. It was a good one. One of my favorite podcasts I've ever done. Oh, thank you. Oh, my favorite one. Really? Is that not how it normally goes?