Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 66 - CEO of Kuiu Hunting Gear Jason Hairston

Episode Date: June 6, 2018

Jason Hairston, former NFL Player, is the founder and CEO of Kuiu, a hunting gear company. Starting the company back in 2010 and hitting $50 million in sales in 2016. Re Watch the Live Stream: https://youtu.be/Wvnwl75DNKU ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/markbellspowerproject FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

We've got to replace this thing every so often, right? Yeah, exactly. I'll try not to drool on it. This is made out of very specific carbon fibers for this episode. Oh, I can tell. I didn't know if you knew that. Oh, no, I can tell. Nothing gets behind me on that stuff.

Yeah, we had to make sure that we had the utmost quality. I've got a carbon fiber fetish, so I recognize it. So you broke your neck. 14 places. C6, C7. How the hell? See, that sounds like an old guy, like made up, like Barstow. Yeah, right.

Broke my neck in 14 places, kid. Right? Yeah, exactly. How did you do that? You know, it was a training camp of the Broncos in 96. That's a professional football team. It is. That's the NFL.

It's like where John Elway played. Holy shit. 1996. And that's a professional football team. It is. That's the NFL. It's like where John Elway played. Holy shit. 1996. That's a, that was a star studded team in 1996. Shannon Sharp, right? It was the team that actually won the Superbowl the following year. Terrell Davis.

We had Terrell Davis. I got a great story about Terrell Davis. If you know where he is. Yeah, I know who Terrell Davis is. I was on the Niners. I was a rookie on the Niners as a draft-free agent in 95. And we were playing against... And you knocked the ever-living shit out of the guy in preseason, right? No, but you gotta hear the story.

It's hilarious. So, we were playing in Japan at the Tokyo Dome, and we were playing Denver, and the special teams coach said, hey, Harrison, you're on kickoff return. Never done kickoff return in my life. What do I do? So he says, you're lining up here and count over five guys and you're going to run 20 yards back and block the guy out to the side and we're going to come up underneath you.

So count over five guys. It's Terrell Davis, but no one knows who Terrell Davis is at the time. And so I sprint down, turn around. Terrell Davis puts a move on me. I barely clip him and we just run the ball up inside of him, but I really missed my block. Elway goes, we don't move the ball, we punt. Elway goes down and scores again. Back on kickoff return. This time I'm like, alright, now I'm prepared and now I'm doing. So I count over the same guys, Terrell Davis, run down, completely miss him this time. The returner never sees him coming and Terrell Davis just cleans him. It's on ESPN. If you watch a Terrell Davis just cleans them. Yeah. It's on ESPN. If you watch a Terrell Davis history.

That's how he got discovered. It was my block that I missed. It's because of you. Yeah. I'm the one that created Terrell Davis. You invented Terrell Davis. I invented Terrell Davis. That's my claim to fame.

And his Hall of Fame career probably, right? Is he in the Hall of Fame? He should be. He is in the Hall of Fame. If you watch his story, that's how it starts is me missing my block. Oh, my God. If it wasn't for me, Terrell Davis probably would have never had a career. Does he know that?

He does. Andrew, see if we can get Terrell Davis on the phone. Bring him on. We've got to verify this story. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm the unathletic white guy that misses the block. Holy shit, I was wondering who that was. That was all me. All these years I was wondering who that was. That's my fame in the NFL. Shortly after that, the next year at the Broncos, I was coming in and I got a great read on a play and shot a gap, down block, and I shot the gap.

It really wasn't my assignment, but I came through early. Here's the play. Oh, you got it? I'm hoping this is it. Yeah. If it's in the Tokyo Dome, that's it. Watch this. This is the play.

So look at it for 65. See that hit? Oh, man. That's me missing my this. This is the play. So look at for 65. See that hit? That's me missing my block. Where am I? I should be coming down right there behind it. That's me coming around right there. Like a 65. Boom.

That's me missing my block coming over. That was hilarious. Terrell Davis is like a seventh round draft pick, right? He was sixth that year. Yeah. Boom. Nobody knows who the hell he is. Look how far behind I was in my block, too.

He went by me so fast. You're not anywhere near him, yeah. Look, that was so bad. Well, and the funny thing was. Life's unfair sometimes. So when I go to the Broncos the next summer, right, so they picked up my contract. I don't think that that was me on my play.

I go to the Broncos first day, right? They put us in an auditorium. Shanahan gets up to talk and he says, anyone can make this football team. Let me show you how. Plays that clip. I'm sitting there with the Broncos hat. I pull it down over my head and I slink down in my chair. I'm like, God, I hope no one knows that's me missing that block. Frickin' hilarious. That's amazing. You know, there's a, there's a term that we've just discovered on this podcast and it's called HNL.

Are you aware of this? I think I'm going to find out whether or not. And it stands for ho another level. Ho another level. What, what has that done for you when you, uh, you know, played in the NFL, you got your feet wet in the NFL and you saw that other people were on a ho another level, right? Seriously. It's amazing. It kind of puts you in your place in a way.

It does. It does. You know, it's very humbling at times. And, you know, I played, I was kind of a late developer in football. I mean, I got kind of a funny football story. I went out for Little League football in Orange County, which is where I grew up. And Orange County football, if you're familiar with sports down there,

but it's hyper competitive. And as an eight-year-'s where I grew up. And Orange County football, if you're familiar with sports down there, but it's hyper competitive. And as an eight-year-old, I got cut. Holy shit. Nine-year-old, I got cut again. Ten-year-old, I got cut. What was the reason? I was terrible.

You just sucked? I sucked. I was like underdeveloped. I was skinny. I was unathletic. And I couldn't make a football team for the first three years. And it really sucked

because I had a hard time making them because I was fat. I was, I was really big. Yeah. I was too slow. And the worst part was for me is I had an older brother, two years older, who was captain, starting quarterback, linebacker, every little league football team. My dad played college football and all I wanted to do was play football.

I couldn't even make a team. And just think about that. Like you have kids. Yeah. Can you imagine him going out for a sport and getting cut? Like smashing a kid's dreams at eight, three is that even is that even legal today you'd be like thrown in jail they'd be protesting and marching in the streets if you cut somebody's kid off a football team did that hurt or did you not really understand what's going on oh no i was in freaking

tears yeah i mean tears and talk about destroying kids confidence confidence and telling somebody you can't accomplish them. But you know what, though? It's why I played in the NFL. I mean, I sat there and told myself, one day, watch. I'm going to get there. And it motivated me. And it's kind of been the antithesis and story of my life. I mean, nothing's come easy for me.

All of it's been a lot of hard work. But it taught me the young age you know so i couldn't make the football teams my dad played college linebacker so i sat in the stands with him and listened to him talk about how to play the position for three years and then um and then as i got into high school my body started to develop i mean i talked about knowing the fundamentals of a position my dad was an amazing linebacker in college and that really led to me becoming having the opportunity to play in the NFL. Obviously, you have to have the speed and the height, which I did.

But it taught me about fundamentals in life and fundamentals in what you want to accomplish. And if you focus on those day-to-day things and become a student of something, it can lead to great things. It's not always the easiest way, and some people can bypass it through just pure athletic ability as you know. Um, but you know, I didn't have that fortunate, you know, I actually think that people, uh, people deal with, I think people deal with losing, uh, better than we give them credit for you hear stories like that all the time. And I think that a lot of people don't have what it takes to actually win, but part of the reason why they don't always have what it takes to win is because they never lost before. They don't realize how bad they suck at something, and I think that's a really

important thing. I did professional wrestling for five years, and when I saw professional wrestling, we think, oh, WWE, the guy's coming off the top rope, and you think it's all kind of fun and games right but it's it the athletes that are involved in that sport and the guys that make money in that sport it's it's few and far between so these are these guys are savages these guys are extremely athletic and when i got into that you know i was i was okay at certain things but i wasn't i wasn't great i wasn't on that next level right yeah and it it And it taught, it taught me, Hey, you know what? You're going to have to figure out something different. Like

if you want to, if you want to stand out, you're going to have to figure out something different. So what was for you playing football? What was kind of the next move? You broke your neck and it's a dark time. You know, it was, my whole focus was I'm going to be a great football player. And, you know, my near-term focus was high school. And then it developed and I was a highly ranked recruit coming out of Orange County when I was leaving high school. Stanford came in early, offered me a scholarship. And I didn't understand how college athletics worked. I figured, oh, I got a scholarship from Stanford.

Declined to meet with any other school. I was going to Stanford. worked. I figured, oh, I got a scholarship from Stanford. Declined to meet with any other school. I was going to Stanford. The day before National assigned it, they called me and said, hey, by the way, we couldn't get you into school, which meant they signed another kid they had ranked above me, which at that point, I was like, wait a minute. I thought we had a deal, right? You gave me your word. This is how this works. And that's how I ended up at Davis. I'd gone back and talked to some other schools that wanted to offer me a scholarship. They had already committed those scholarships to other kids.

I was going to go to junior college. I was like, man, I'm going to get an education and use football to get a good education. I went up to Davis. At the time, it was a Division II non-scholarship school. I went up to visit just to check it out and fell in love with the players and the coaching philosophy. Did you have hopes and dreams of going to the NFL from Davis? Because that's not very common. No, at that point I didn't.

I mean, I was just trying to use football to get a great education. And I liked the guys there. And, you know, it's a lot of guys kind of in my situation where they're overlooked, chip on the shoulder, love the game of football, so they're going to non-scholarship Division II school. And, you know, when I went on campus, I got this overwhelming gut feeling like this

was where i'm supposed to go when i came home and i told parents and coaches and my buddies that also played football i'm going to davis like why in the hell would you go there coach brand was he there it was coach foster was a head coach then and coach biggs strength coach uh you have one maybe no we kind of did but we were we worked out of the gym on the outside of campus right right a lot of times those division two schools some that they don't have one or at No, we kind of did. We worked out at the gym on the outside of campus. Right, right. A lot of times those Division II schools, they don't have one or at least... Oh, the gym was a joke. At that time, yeah. Yeah. And we just had it, but because of like the mentality

of the guys there, we had this group, my freshman group and the guys, we ended up living in a house together. I mean, we lived, ate, trained and breathed football and then going to school. And lifting was just our culture. We used to lift from 10 at night until midnight every night.

Holy shit. I know. We loved it. What did you weigh back then? Or what do you weigh now? So right now I'm weighing about, I'll arrange between 210 and 215. I'm approaching hunting season. So I got a big sheep hunt coming up in August.

So my cardio is ramping. My diet is getting stricter. So I'm leaning out right now um what'd you weigh then when you played football so I entered Davis at 220 and left at uh 235 240 um by the time I was done what what's uh what's been the change for you recently because even just looking at some different videos even when you were doing a testing sure with uh, University of Davis, you look a lot leaner than you did in those videos and you looked lean then. What's changed? Sport science.

And, you know, really understand, I didn't understand, thought I understand diet until I got involved with Judd over at, uh, Judd Van Soekla at the UC Davis Sports Lab, not just on training, but how diet can impact my performance on these big, long expeditions on, on big endurance athletic events. And, uh, he's shifted my thinking on how I eat, um, down to really low carbs, which I know you've written about and high fat and fat more important than even protein for, for what we're doing and, um, forcing your body to adapt, to burn fat and being used to burning fat.

And when those fat reserves run out to transition over to burning your body's fat without bonking. And I didn't realize I bonked on trips before and it sucks. I'm sure. I don't know if you have an endurance athletics, but when you bonk, like literally hardly even walk, um, and what happens and what causes that. And I hadn't realized it was the carbs. So you can hardly even walk. And what happens and what causes that? And I hadn't realized it was the carbs. In short, you can store a lot more fuel from fat.

I mean, it's like six or eight times, I guess, some ridiculous amount more. And then also you can run off your own stored body fat. Your body can also create ketones in the absence of carbohydrates. And so for that reason, it ends up being a more efficient source of fuel. And then explain what you're doing on some of these hunts, because maybe some of our listeners don't know what goes into it. Are you like sprinting or is it jogging or is it walking or what? It is. It's like an ultra marathon on steroids because we'll get, so where we're going, we're going

to really remote places. Let's say the Yukon or Alaska. We're flown in on one of those tiny bush planes, which is you and the pilot. Terrifying. Oh, it's so cool though. It's like the ultimate human test. That's how I put it, right? If you're a hunter or just, you know, being a hunter as a human being.

I'd be scared just being on the plane. Yeah, you get used to it. It's actually an amazing way to travel. And they got those big tender tires. We can land on little gravel bars. We'll get flown in and dropped off. A lot of those trips, you have to have a professional guide legally.

And so we get dropped off and we're self-supported for up to two weeks. And we may get dropped off at a certain point. And a lot of the trips, we don't even know we're going to end up. So we're out, you know, on a sheep hunt. We're looking for sheep and we're looking for the biggest, oldest sheep on the mountain because that's what we want to hunt.

We want to harvest animals at the end of their life. And that's really- Yeah, you don't want to be shooting babies. Well, it's just the ultimate test, right? Right. The oldest sheep's the smartest sheep has been around and it's truly how to test yourself. And being self-supported, you got to carry all your own food. You got to carry your sleeping bags, clothes, you know, everything's got to go go on your back and so you've got to be really smart about how you pack the food you bring and you know we'll walk 10 12 14 hours a day um on some of

these events i've walked 24 hours and it's not like walking on the street none of it's flat none of it's steady right a lot of it very rarely is it just flat i mean None of it's flat. None of it's steady. Right. A lot of it, very rarely is it just flat. I mean, most of it's up, down, broken rocks, cliffs. Is there usually even like a path? Some places, no. Sometimes you'll find a game trail, but there's no like hiking trails where we go. Right. The places we're going now are pretty unique.

It's probably less inhabited by men today than even it was several hundred years ago when there's Inuits because Inuits aren't there now so we're we're putting boots on the ground in places that and seeing animals that probably have never seen human beings country that hasn't had people travel through it in decades right and it is amazing amazing to go through that country and experience it so you got to be in shape to do this so what what's your training look like uh for this kind of stuff my trade it's year- round for me. It's part of my lifestyle. It always has been being an athlete.

And then, you know, for hunting for me, it's given me another focus to train. And this lifestyle keeps me super fit in a different way. So, you know, obviously training for football is lifting and bulk and heavy. And I've learned, especially through sports science, every pound I take off my body is like taking a pound out of my pack. Endurance athletics, you know, you look at professional cycling. I mean, they're trying to shave an ounce off a bike because it makes a difference. And for them, weighing less is like really, really important for their race. Exactly.

And so I've taken a really scientific approach on the products we make. It's why I started Kuyu. It's why it's tagline ultralight equipment or ultralight hunting is using uh advancements in material design construction to reduce weight because i knew it would transfer into performance in the mountains well there's a lot that goes into that too because if it's uh if it's um if it's raining you don't want whatever you're wearing to absorb all that moisture and then if you're if it's if it's hot and you're wearing to absorb all that moisture. And then if you're, if it's, if it's hot and you're sweating, you wouldn't want that either. It might make you,

you know, right. It might potentially add to the load or just be uncomfortable. Well, and being wet can kill you up there. I mean, we have, you know,

you have to have performance apparel in those conditions. You need special, everything, special socks, special shoes, you do special, uh, special things to get you through the forest and all this stuff, right?

Yeah, it's kind of like what you created with Slingshot and some of the products you've made. I mean, it's, for me, getting into this industry and creating Sitka, the first brand I created, and then now Kuyu is really solving the problems I couldn't find. And building stuff that I wanted that no one was making, right? And that just continues every day. We're always evaluating, always looking for new technologies and designs. We always say reduce weight, increase performance.

Do you lift? I do lift. Do you? Do you even lift, bro? I sort of, yeah. Sorry. From time to time. Yeah. I do lift.

How does lifting kind of equate and how does that help? Because it's, it sounds like it's almost more endurance based. It is endurance based, but I just enjoy lifting. Right. It's always, it's been a part of my lifestyle for since, you know, high school and before high school. And I just enjoy pounding steel. I, I, unfortunately, as I get older, I, I have a tendency to, to, if I do over train or do go heavy now, I've got to really watch it. Right. Tendinitis and joint pain, that type of stuff. But, yeah, I still lift.

I mix it in in between the cardio training. And obviously, heavy cardio training reduces your strength, reduces your pull. What's your best bench? Let's just get right to it. I did 405 in college. And what about your squat? 585. There we go.

Those are great numbers. You know, I always tell people strength is never a weakness. Strength is a huge part of fitness. It is. But strength is also just a huge part of anything. Somebody going into a surgery, somebody going into a hunt, somebody going into a fight. I mean, strength is always going to be a major factor. I agree.

And you wouldn't want to train strength to your detriment either. You don't want to train strength so much. And this goes for powerlifting as well. You don't want to train strength so much that you are not paying attention to your nutrition or not paying attention to your overall health, your overall fitness, because your overall fitness is never a weakness either. Sure. When that's increased and then you can recover from your workouts faster and get in and out of things better. And we've seen people come in here with like a bodybuilding background

or even a CrossFit background, or they just come from another sport, and sometimes they kick our ass because their work capacity is so high and because they can do one set after another without hardly any rest. What type of lifting do you do for these hunts is anything specific or is it more specific you know it's just conditioning yeah it's no it's just i still do the same type of workouts um you know bench press incline press flies um legs shoulders that i've done in the past i have a tendency to do higher reps now and not going as heavy and stay away from you know

sets of three or four reps you know really heavy heavy lifts and but i'm my goal with lifting is overall strength size and bulk you know i don't want to get it's hard because you're fighting endurance is going to want to strip you down right i don't want to get you know completely um you know completely skinny so just my own ego and the way I like to look. So, um, it's a lot of it, but also, you know, we're carrying, you know, sometimes a hundred and a hundred pound loads and we've got to move that stuff around. Right. And so, and strength comes to play like you were talking about. And I think if you don't strength train and you just endurance train for what we're doing at times, it's going to shock your system. Yeah. And as you've probably experienced when

you're just strength training, you do a cardio event, it whacks you. And I think that's where the balance is important. And what I try to talk to our customers about getting ready for a trip is don't just cardio. You're also moving weight. You're doing physical things. You got to move the animal too. Once you kill it, right? Just it, right? It's all healthy. Plus, I've learned from sports sciences how much I was over-training on cardio and using strength training in between so that I'm not over-training on cardio. Were you just running every day or something? I was doing cardio six days a week. Not that I was always doing a two or three hour run, but I would do a big run on

Saturday or Sunday, but I would set up that run with an, with a long cardio event the day before heavy intervals, the wrong kind of intervals, uh, during the week with, you know, 30 minutes speed run an hour long, hour long type run on the treadmill and only taking a day off. Interesting thing about these things is they're, they're extremely negative. Like it's, It's amazing how negative it is because it can start to creep into your sleep. It can also harm your health just as much or maybe even almost worse than not doing anything in some cases. It's true. So you do have to be careful.

Yeah, you do have to be careful on how far. And there's always people who are like, fuck it, man. I'm just going to keep training. Push it, push it, push it. I like the red line and I like to go crazy, but I know firsthand experience. It's not the way to go. Yeah. So we're, you know, Judd, I think it's been 12 weeks now. He shifted my whole view on training and the type of cardio training I'm doing. And he now has me doing two interval days a week and one long cardio event on the weekends.

And if somebody told you that like eight years ago or something, you'd be like, get the fuck out of here. You told me that 12 weeks ago. And I was like, get the fuck out of here. Right. Seriously. I was like, that's it? You know, that scares me. It did.

It scared me. He's all, trust the science on it. And I have. I feel better today. I've leaned out more. He also transitioned my diet. And my big events are amazing. Interval training's gone through the roof and my body feels

great probably such a huge change from football it is like football mindset you know it's like they just got the two days and they're trying to kill you and you've got the pads on it's 120 degrees it's true right no so true they just try to absolutely annihilate and it's it's so backwards i'm thinking in fact i'm on'm on the UC Davis athletic board, and I'm involved with the football program. And they're building, they're working on building a new facility. I'm trying to get sports science to move into it with a football program to start working with their strength and conditioning coach

to understand the science behind training these guys. Right. Because it's just blown my mind. I'll go over there and tell these guys what's up. You should. I will. I'll go take you over there. I'd love to. Yeah, that would be a lot of fun. Right. Because it's just blown my mind. I'll go over there and tell these guys what's up. You should. I will. I'll go take you over there.

I'd love to. Yeah, that would be a lot of fun. Yeah. I'm tight with Coach Hawkins and the athletic director Kevin Blither

and amazing job revitalizing that program the way it once was. So, love to introduce you. Yeah, that would be awesome. So, how did you

kind of, you mentioned you started another business. Did you ever set out to be an entrepreneur in the first place? Always. Well, I, you know, my dad's always owned his, my dad's a physical therapist.

He's always owned his own practice. Okay. And, uh. So you guys seeing that is. Yeah. He always, you know, he had a saying when I was young that I love. He's like, Jason, you know, one of the things that I've learned in my life is sign the front of the checks.

Right. Not the back. And that always kind of stuck with me. And then one day I realized like. What are you signing? I want to sign the front of the checks. Yeah. Like I want that always kind of stuck with me. And then one day I realized like, I want to sign the front of the checks. Like I want to, I was doing commercial real estate and I'm like,

I want to be the guy's lease in the building. I don't want to be a broker working. I want to do that. Like I want to have the opportunity to create something. I want the opportunity to have my own thing, right? It's always been in my mindset.

And I, you know, growing up as a kid, I'd meet my family, my parents' friends, and they'd have some entrepreneurs, guys that owned their own business. I'm like, I want to own my own business someday. When football ended, I just had no idea what it would be. I got into commercial real estate and thought, well, if I just make money,

I'll be happy. We have nice things. Did that, miserable. Then I had a client that I became friends with, kind of a good mentor and entrepreneur type of guy. And he's like, you know, Jason, and I talked about wanting to own my own business. He's like, best advice I can give you is find something you love and create a business out of that. And I'm like, I love hunting. Well, how do I create a business out of that?

Like, I couldn't figure it out. And then in 2004, sitting on top of a mountain cold wet miserable thinking about how shitty our gear was right and I went to hunting retailer I was buying most of my stuff from outdoor outdoor like places like rei or mountaineering shops and why can't we have stuff like that hunting I can't be the only one right but I was I was, I mean, I was the only one to actually go do it. Right. Created the whole category and with a brand called Sitka that we started in 2005 with a business partner that was with me on that trip that we kind of came up with the idea of

brainstorming together on it. And, um, you have any previous business experience other than the real estate? No, uh, I shouldn't say I bought two franchises with some money I made in real estate, and that kind of taught me the basics. And I bought those for an investment, which was sold after two years. And you learned the good and the bad. Just learned about running books and the basic stuff, business license and insurance and what margins were and payroll. How important it is to do things the right way from the beginning.

That's what's nice about a franchise. They kind of teach you the basics, teach you the fundamentals, right? Sold those, use that money to create, to launch into Sitka, create Sitka and had no apparel experience. And came up with the idea. I was almost like embarrassed or scared to tell anybody like, I'm going to do this. And like, I finally told my wife and she's like, you should, you'd be really good at that. And she knew I love like style and design. Well, that's huge reinforcement.

That's the person you care about most. Right. Telling you, Hey, yeah, that's a good idea. Well, especially when you go back and go, okay, I did it. Now I've got to leverage the house. I need to take all the equity out of our house and buy $225,000 worth of product. Hey, about that idea that you said was good. Here's what needs to happen. We're going to find out how good you think it is today. Hey, about that idea that you said was good. Here's what needs to happen.

We're going to find out how good you think it is today. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, no experience and just was, but like the second I came up with that idea, I knew it was it.

Like that's what I'm going to do the rest of my life. And realize what truly what this guy that told me, find something you love to do and do that because you'll really maximize who you are as a person, as a business person, entrepreneur.

If you do something you love. If you do it for money, you'll kind of get there. But if you do it for love, you'll master it. Yeah. And you'll become the best. And you'll become something that nobody can compete with if you do something you truly love. How do you know when something's a good idea? I feel it.

It's all good. You just feel it head to toe. I can see it. Tell people, I said, you know, I can see it, touch it, feel it, taste it, smell it. Right. If it's the right thing. Right. And I know it like that. But it's not an actual physical thing. It's just a vision. It's a gut overwhelming instinct. Right. And I've learned to follow it and it hasn't let me down yet. I've always told people like, if you can't stop thinking about it, a lot of times it's a good idea too. You know, just something that you just, it's in your head.

You keep thinking about it. Like, man, I need to figure out, how do I figure it out? I need to tell this person, that person. You keep thinking about it nonstop. It's true. Right. And it keeps you up at night out of excitement. Like, this is it.

I can do this. This is gonna be big. Right. Yeah. And I've done some things that haven't been as big or successful as I maybe anticipated, but I'll tell you what, I've been way more right than I've ever been wrong. And thank you. And, uh, you know, I, I'm working, I like to mentor, give back to young, young kids or young entrepreneurs that reach out to me and say, Hey, I've got this idea. And, um, you know, one of the things I always tell them is follow your gut. Because I had so many people go, Jason, you're nuts. You're going to do what?

Apparel? You think you're a fashion? I mean, come on. You can't just go start a business in apparel without any experience. I went and came up with the idea and then pitched it to some people in the industry. Like, no one's going to pay that much for hunting clothing. I mean, look at the prices in Cabelo's and all these hunting retail shops. You're going to be two or three times more expensive for now.

Never worked. But if something's better, it's better though, right? I just believed it. Yeah. You know? And just followed that belief and believed it so strongly that I didn't listen to anybody else. Was there times where self-doubt creeped in? and believed it so strongly that I didn't listen to anybody else.

Was there times where self-doubt creeped in? You know, I guess questioning whether I'm losing my mind. All right. Like how many concussions did I get? Maybe that has something to do with why I think this is such a good idea when everyone else is telling me it's such a bad idea. But you know what? Not very much. I trust myself, especially now.

I think when you first start a business and you start to have some success, you're, uh, you wonder whether you're lucky or good. Right. Right. And I remember when we had success with Sitka, you go, okay, well, is that the right place? The right time of the right product? Or am I good at this thing? And when we sold Sitka to Gore-Tex in 09, and I turned around and had this idea for Kuyu, because again, solving problems that I had faced with Sitka

with retailers and the product quality I couldn't take to market, the markups, and thinking this idea of going direct to the consumer. If we're going to do all the work to educate them and market to them and talk to them, why would we send them to the store to get it and pay twice what they should pay or make a lesser product because of price? And when I was writing the business plan for Cure, I told myself, well, I'm going to find out whether I'm good or whether I was lucky the first time. And, um, and whether my instincts were right and totally underestimated what we would do the second go around with Kuyu. Uh, it's turned out to be what I thought was going to be a small little lifestyle business, hometown type of thing. Sell a couple million dollars of revenue a year, go hunting.

Right. Life would be easy. Have a few employees. It revenue a year, go hunting. Right. Life would be easy. Have a few employees. It turned out to be the opposite. I mean, seven years later, we're a global brand. I've got offices in Europe. We have, you know, we're over 50 employees. We're the fastest growing, largest brand in our market segment.

And all of it's direct online. Most of it's word of mouth marketing. And that's kind of what you've experienced with your business. It's amazing what you could do today if you make the best product in the world. Talk to your early adopters, let them tell their friends about it.

What has separated the company out from some of the other companies? I know you talked a little bit about the technology, but what does that kind of look like in comparison to what's out there now? Well, one of the things that really frustrated me with sitka was i would find fabrics and materials designs ideas and develop them look at the cost talk to the retailer about what it would have to sell for and the retailer's like we're not going to carry anything that expensive right so i'm like god i'm walking away from really making the best stuff for my customers

because the retailer is telling me you can't sell something that expensive that's just lazy by the retailer right right customers want the best stuff i want the best stuff but i can't produce the best stuff in the retail model and i also couldn't control growth the sell-through the customer experience it was just there's so much missing there's so much lack of value added in today's retail market with the big box. Specialty shops could do it, but there wasn't enough of them anymore because they've all been put out of business to really build a brand through specialty shops today. So I had to make a direct business model really so I could produce the best stuff in the world with no limitations. And then I thought, if the customer is doing all their work like he is today, why are we paying retail market? Why does a customer have to pay for retail market? We used to pay for it because they were the experts. They scoured the market before the

internet and found the cool stuff and they'd sell it to the customers. They earned it. Hanging on a hanger in a big store, is that really earning it? And then like the big box are like, well, what are you doing to drive downstream demand in our stores for your product? I'm like, isn't that your job? Like, you know, the customer's doing your work, I'm doing your work. What are you getting the 100% markup for?

I'm producing a $100 jacket, sell it to you for 200, and you're making $200 on the jacket. But I'm doing the work and the customer's doing the work. It's broken. Like I just kept saying, this is so broken. And now we're seeing it. Pretty cool. I didn't quite anticipate

that the retail model collapse would be happening like it did. Yeah, you didn't invent the internet, but it came along at a good time, right? Right. And then timing, you know, the dot-com businesses kind of started off and they're not working. And then during the economy collapse, be able to come out with a model at the bottom of it. I mean, we're at the bottom of the market when I launched this thing. And be able to offer a better product at a better price when price was kind of important, but they didn't want to give up quality. And I mean, one of the things that people questioned with Kuyu was, as you've experienced with that direct consumer models, like how do you get your customers? Like where are they going to come from? How are they

going to find out about you? Like, how do you do that? How do you turn on a website and have success? How are people going to trust to buy clothes online with a brand that no one can say? Like, what's Kuyu? What's K-U-I-U? I'veu you heard it all day long like this is the worst idea ever jason like oh no it's awesome believe me trust me it's gonna be great and uh so i you know being fanatical about gear and product um i started a blog called uh building kuyu and when i was back in my garage because i started sitka from my garage back in the same garage and i did a post a week this is before social media marketing was even a term. Right. We didn't have Instagram. Facebook wasn't used for business.

You didn't do anything with YouTube at the time. Video wasn't a thing. It was back in 2010. I just started every week. This is what I'm doing. I'm back in the garage. I'm overseas. I'm investigating fabrics, researching fabrics.

I shared everything. Was that through like a blog or something? Through a blog. Okay. And I answered every single question for like 18, 19 months before we launched. But it was really cool. I thought there's a restaurant in Sacramento called The Kitchen. Have you ever been to The Kitchen?

Yeah, fucking amazing, yeah. Right? I love The Kitchen. So I left Sitka in June of 2009. And became a chef? No. I'm not a great chef. But I went to the kitchen

for Anniversary, which is July 18th. Took my wife there. And I was so amazed at how they presented their product. They talk about every little ingredient.

And what it created is you've experienced this huge anticipation for how great that meal is going to be. And then it was, right? Yeah. And I thought about

that transparency. I thought I'm working with Tori out of Japan and petards, leathers, like, why can't I do that with Kuyu? Like share everything, work with the best ingredients and like go down to

the, all the smallest details. I think that'd be really cool. Let's try it. And that's what I started blogging about. And like, let's talk about retail model. Let's talk about how it's broken. Let's talk about the market. Let's talk about everything that no be really cool. Let's try it. And that's what I started blogging about. And like, let's talk about retail model. Let's talk about how it's broken.

Let's talk about the market. Let's talk about everything that no one talks about. That makes a ton of sense on so many different levels. Cause if you were to try to just bring things in house and to sew things and to figure out all those things in the very beginning, uh, it would suck. It would, it would probably be too hard to really get it off the ground. It would be. Without an understanding of the fabrics. And if you go into a company that's been doing it for 20 years,

however long they've been doing it for, that's going to give you a huge advantage off the start. Sure. Well, and just knowing what the reality is of the marketplace, right? So knowing what most companies are buying, they're buying fabrics in Taiwan. They buy them for price. They're inexpensive.

We call them sourced Asian fabrics. They're junk, in my opinion. And then they come up with some fancy name. It's this proprietary fabric created by X brand. And this is a fancy name. And it does this, right? When all intents and purposes, it's a stretch woven fabric that costs three bucks. And they buy it from some Chinese mill. There's no testing, there's no quality standards. And that's what

people are buying. And I thought I'm buying Japanese technical fabrics from Tori. They're amazing. Let's tell that story. Let's go into the, down to the, how they make their yarn that's patented with no elastic. Let's share those details. And just because I was excited about it and what it did is attract all the early adopters, all the guys that geek out on the small details. Yeah, well now it changes the game because if somebody says, man, I don't know, I can't spend $100 on pants, but if the pants are the same every time you wear them,

after you've worn them 10 times and they perform the same and they're very comfortable, they look better, they feel better. They last forever. They're more aesthetically pleasing. Just yeah. Everything. Having it last is a huge deal.

You know, some of these things, um, even from some big companies, sometimes even like a Nike or Under Armour, you wear something like twice and you're like. I know what they're buying. The thing's all fucked up. You know, it's all messed up after you washed it and worn it once.

And I know why, because I know where they're buying their fabrics. Those bastards. Yeah. It's price. It's all price. And the retailer today is forcing it worse than ever. I just got back from traveling overseas with my suppliers and you talk to them and they're like, so what do you guys see in the marketplace?

They're like, price. It's so frustrating. They want less quality materials. They want less quality. They want less expensive sewing. They want less, materials. They want less quality. They want less expensive sewing. They want less, less, less. And he says, you know, as they talk about the crazy thing is though, their volumes aren't going up. Even though we're reducing their costing on less quality materials and less quality sewing, they're thinking it's going to

drive price, but at the end of the day, it's not. Or volume, but it's not. And the consumer is the one that pays the price on that. Because it's not getting less expensive at the store. The margins are only getting better. Or it's getting a little bit less expensive or it's getting discounted at the end. Right. How do you lower the barrier of entry into hunting then? You know, if the stuff is of quality and you can't really compromise the price too much, how do you get more people into hunting if the cost ends up being kind of high? Well, we don't do retail market. So I'm selling it wholesale to our customers.

That's how we did it. That was a big part of our success. Yeah, you being a hunter, that must have been really important for you. Well, I just felt like it was right. Being a consumer. Right. Right. And looking at the lack of value the retailers are adding today and felt like, hey, if, like I said, if we're going to do the work to market, our customers need the work to find out about it.

Let's just sell it to them wholesale. Right. Right. And wouldn't that be cool? Like no one's done that before. Let's give the retail market back to our customers. It's the right thing to do. Let's make the best product in the world and sell it at wholesale.

It's the same margin I'd make if I sell it to a retailer. Right. For me. Now the customer buys it without a hundred percent markup. That'd be pretty cool. But it worked. And it was like when we finally announced that towards the end of right before we're going to launch, it was really what tipped the business over. People just started going nuts.

And having blogged about everything about the business for 18 months before we launched and then like three months before, I said, hey, what if we do this, you guys? What if we sold at wholesale prices to you instead of the retailer laid out the pricing structure what it looked like and that was when like just got this landslide of comments and and people wanting to purchase the brand people threatening not to tell people because there's no way that i'd have enough inventory which i didn't um to the point where i had to carve up shopping days based on blog subscriptions because so many people subscribed to the blog to purchase um we saw everything right away for the first year and then you know we're basically out of stock for almost five years i'm just trying to catch up the demand um you said uh 18 months

of talking about it that must have been exciting but it must have been brutal like most people don't have that kind of patience i used to answer questions till two in the morning my wife would look at me and go, you're nuts. I'm like, I have to. It's like, I want to build this brand one customer at a time. And if someone takes the time to ask a question, it'd be rude not to answer it. I mean, I appreciate this. This is amazing.

Right. And that's the mentality this brand has. Let's do what's best for the customer every day. Best product, best pricing. Let's answer all the questions. Let's treat them like we want to be treated. And what questions were you answering without a product being developed? Questions about fabric, questions about fit, questions about, you know, or comments.

Hey, what do you think about doing a pocket like this? Or have you thought about, you know, making a down jacket versus synthetic? I would ask questions too. Hey guys, I'm going to build an installation piece. You guys want down or synthetic? We want synthetic. These are the reasons why. I think it's a good idea.

Right. Thinking about putting my pockets here because of the pack. What do you guys think? That's a great idea. Can we get a chest pocket? Yeah. I hadn't thought about that. Let's put a chest pocket.

Right. That's a good idea. And really did a lot of crowdsourcing interaction. People felt like they owned. Yeah. Part of building Kuyu. And they were. That's huge.

How much has luck been part of this? Sometimes it's easy to have haters and stuff. Jason, he's just lucky. He hit the nail on the head at the right time and all these things. But luck is part of it, right? It's part of it. As I said, nothing for me has come easy. We launched Sitka with no experience. You know, I say I was at the right place at the right time with the right product. I think, you know, looking at the hunting market, it was even today, it's totally under

service for the size of it for brand and for performance products. Um, we were the first in people really gravitated to the fact there was a brand that had a meaning of like adventure and mountain and tough and rugged. And, but it was a lot of work, a lot of sleepless nights. You know, how many times we almost went out of business, not making payroll, but trying to get inventory and product. But it does require some luck and timing. And then, you know, looking at Kuyu, I look back now, it's like I had a crystal ball of the future retail. Right.

I didn't. A lot of that's like what we talked about, like good instinct. Like this, I feel like crystal ball the future retail right I didn't a lot of that's like what we talked about like that instinct like this I feel like this is the right way to go to market direct no retail markup better products I think this is going to work and then the rest is like timing which is you'd argue is luck right and you know both brands meeting the right people at the right time like oh man how am I going to make I got a shipment coming out on the money for it like how many get this money? And then you meet somebody

or you reach out to somebody or something happens and kind of all the stars have to align, as I say, to make these things all be successful. Because I think, you know, when you look at the success of business that 97% don't work as startups, they're the ones that don't

either have the fortitude to grind through the hard times or the stars don't quite align for them and something happens. I think it's important to tell people what your vision is and what you're trying to do because you don't really know who you're talking to sometimes. Yep. You know, if you tell other family members and you tell friends, then even that word of mouth starts to... It does.

It does. Who knows who's talking to who? Who knows who wants to invest? Who knows who wants to just support? Somebody might even say, Hey man, I like the idea. I just want to come work for you. I want to just work for you. We've had that. I'll quit my job tomorrow. I'll come volunteer to learn to be part of what you're doing. Whatever the hell you want me to do. In 2015, I was working

on getting SBA financing. We were profitable, small business administration, guarantees the loans. Met with my bank August before the end of the year. They said, you're going to qualify for max amount of SBA financing. Gave them the financials. 45 days later, underwriter's like, you don't have accounts receivable. I'm like, I know, isn't it great? I don't sell to retail, right? I get paid before I ship my product. They're like, well, we can't finance you because we can't check that box.

And I had planned on this financing, right? So I went to the next bank, the next bank. At one point, I had a 90% government-backed guarantee. I couldn't get a bank to lend me money because we didn't have accounts receivable. And I was like desperate. The company was doing great, but we were backlogged in inventory.

And it's like these moments, right? And I just started calling everybody I knew. Like, do you know anyone that owns a bank? My dad's like, I think this cowboy I know has something to do with a bank, right? Gilbert Aguirre, just an awesome guy. Old cowboy. Salt of the earth. Call him.

I go, Gil, do you know anybody that owns a bank? He goes, I own a bank. I'm like, I need an SBA loan. I qualify to give them the information. He's like, I need an SBA loan. I qualify to give them the information. He's like, I'll get your loan in 30 days. Some of those cowboys and farmers are unassuming. They have shit loads of money sometimes. Right.

No one would ever guess. He goes, I go, you own a bank? I thought you just did cows. And he's like, no, I own a bank. And he got me a loan, right? It's like those instances in business. And I think it's, I tell young entrepreneurs, like you're going to have to grind and you're going to have to not give up and you're going to sit there going, alone right it's like those instances in business i think it's i tell young entrepreneurs like you're gonna have to grind and you're gonna have to not give up and you're gonna be sitting there

going i don't think this is like i don't know how we're gonna do this you just can't give up you have to uh you've been there yeah you have to flip over every single rock right and just be relentless yeah and i think that's where you know the passion part really is important if you're gonna do you'd be crazy enough to start your own business, it's like you better be passionate about it because it's the passion that will get you through those times you're going. Your energy. I have no idea how we're going to make payroll tomorrow. Your energy won't run out for it if you're excited about it. You won't give up.

Versus if you're doing it for the money, you're like, ah, maybe it's not worth it. You got something to add, Andrew? Yeah, I was just curious because you said you were blogging for 18 months. Yeah. How were you able to stay patient throughout the whole process? Well, I knew I couldn't launch until a certain period of time. There was a lot of work to do on the supply chain for me, development of products. And I had the time.

And it was actually my brother that came up with the idea. He's like, you know, Jason, a little bit worried that you're going to disappear for two years after selling Sika and then pop back up with a new brand. He's like, why don't you blog? I'm like, what's sick and then pop back up with a new brand. He's like, why don't you blog? I'm like, what's a blog? How do I set up a blog? He's a tech guy.

He's like, I can set up a blog for you in WordPress. And he's like, isn't it funny? Like, see, that just happened in passing, right?

Totally. And I'm like, that's why it's important. I'm like, well, what am I going to blog about? And he's like, we'll blog about you.

I'm like, nah, that's too narcissist for me, but it might be kind of cool to do. Like I was thinking one day I was actually on a run. A lot of my good ideas come as training. Exercising. What about building a brand, like building Kuyu?

That might be kind of cool. Maybe you guys would find that interesting. And I started building Kuyu. And the best thing I've ever done. Yeah. And then everyone agreed with you. Selling online was a great idea, right? Just like, really?

You would do this and give us the retail market back and not take advantage of us like yeah it was like it was truly like the tipping point for the startup in such a massive way i've watched you know other consumer direct brands get created today and i've talked to others creating them i'm like are you blogging yet like why would we tell everybody our secrets before we go to market i'm like you should because it's super powerful and you can attract customers and you can get trust this is all about trust transparency is trust i was actually shocked when i like researched you uh a few months back and found a lot of stuff on the internet because you want to know why i don't normally see that yeah i'm like how like and sometimes it's it's really it like boggles my

mind because i i only know one way to build something um the way that i did it that's the only way that i that i understand right yep but when i see sometimes these uh entrepreneurs who are real successful and they haven't done any of that i'm like oh my god they're missing out on such a huge piece right i agree i agree it agree. And we interact with our customers on a daily basis. I mean, it's, you know, as I tell our team, and we've had great success, but this brand's for the customers. The coolest thing I saw was, like, you do live launches. We do.

That was actually really cool. And I haven't seen other people do stuff like that before. Got it from watching steve jobs yeah like you talk about influence right i'm like how cool is that a keynote thing and i was like how could we ever do that and then pat i think pat introduced us to your brand live which is a really a platform that's so that's so smart and intuitive in a lot of ways because steve jobs did it in this way that so everybody always thinks that everything that you need to do needs to be this big fucking deal it needs needs to be this huge production. And it's like, well, you're not Steve

Jobs. I'm not Steve Jobs, right? We can't, we can't figure out some of the stuff that he did later in his life, but you could take a concept and say, I got a camera. I can go live for free on anything and people can watch. Absolutely. Live stream it. Yeah, we got this platform. This is before they had Facebook Live and all these other live programs. Your Brand Live was a platform created really for in-store training for brands. And Pat's like, hey, your Brand Live,

do you think we could do anything with it? I'm like, can we do live product launches? They're like, no one's ever done it before. You can try it. Sounds absurd that no one else has thought of it, right? So I was like, because I just kept thinking, God, if anytime I can talk to a customer and answer their questions about a new product, like we sell it to them 100% of the time.

Like what if we could do it to thousands of people, answer questions. That makes a lot of sense. And then they know all their answers so they can go sell it for us. That makes a lot of sense. We go to trade shows and our product is sometimes very hard to understand. It's very hard to understand what it's going to feel like, what it's going to look like, how it's going to fit, and what it's going to do for you. So at trade shows, it's huge. When we put somebody in a slingshot, they're never like, oh, it sucks.

You know, they always enjoy it. And maybe they don't purchase it, but maybe they even go tell somebody else who's got a bum shoulder. They go tell somebody else that they think that it would work well for. I got in one today, your product today for the first time. It's amazingly simple and amazingly effective. And I love products like that. Like,

right. It's just, it's, you get in it, you use it. And it's like, wow, that works amazing.

It took like five seconds to put it on. It took a lot of pain away from your shoulder. You banged out some pushups. Yeah. I can't bench right now, but I can bench with a slingshot. Yeah. I'm going to steal one from you if I'm going to walk out here and buy one. Yeah, we got a whole bag of stuff for you on your way out and to help your wife with her knee because she busted it up doing some CrossFit, right?

Tori Patello. She didn't listen to you. You told her not a good idea, right? Just repetitive, hardcore training. It's just a recipe for disaster over time, as you know. Have you got, do you guys train together sometimes or does that doesn't work well? Different types of workout. And I'm in there a lot longer than she is.

Right. Especially with my cardio work and specific type of stuff I'm doing. But, um, now we, we go to a lot of times go to the gym together. We just have to drive separate. Yeah. How has your wife, uh, been involved? You know, it's like sometimes, uh sometimes people's wives are like directly involved and actually like work for the business. But even if she's not, you know, quote unquote, working for the company, she's still a huge part of it.

No, she's been involved with both businesses. Oh, cool. Chris and I are dead opposites. So, I mean, she's a numbers person, analytical person. So she's always kept track of the books. This is a really weird story, Casey. And it's always been the one that walks in my office and goes, Jason, yeah, we don't have enough money to make payroll tomorrow. I'm like, all right, I'll figure it out.

That's when you sell drugs. No, I just sell more product. Oh, okay. He doesn't follow our model. No, but it's been a great partnership. I mean, it's, you know, been a great partnership i mean it's you know i came to her with the idea of sitka and she's like go do it and then i'm like okay so when we launched sitka i went to the trade show we got one order our first year for ten thousand

dollars which was five thousand dollar cost i'd order 225 000 worth of product to hit the minimums to fill that $5,000 order. And I'm like, I got an order I got to fill. I got to order $225,000 worth of product. The math isn't working out. I need to leverage. I need to take all the equity out of the house to place that order. Are you cool with that? And she's like, you got an order?

I'm like, yeah. How big is it? I'm like, oh, it's $10,000. It's actually five. But it was $10,000 that they're going to pay us. And she's like, do it was 10 000 that they're gonna pay us and uh she's like do it you'll do it'll work and then the cool thing was thankfully well the funniest part was who ordered this product the truck shows up we have a garage warehouse and an office all in my little

garage and i thought yeah we'll just maybe put up shelves and i had no experience right so the this truck shows up with a container on the back. Right. I'm like, cool. Our products here, right out there. I'm super excited.

And a guy opens the back and all these boxes and I'm like, all right, well, which, which boxes are mine? He's like, the entire truck is yours. So I'm like,

Oh, like all of it. Again, the math not working out in your favor. So, so we, we piled it on our front lawn and i had to go rent a u-haul and a storage space to put it i had no idea it was that like that lack of experience and uh we

had our neighbors going you guys are moving like no and started this business anyways your wife just looking at you weird like yeah she's like you're gonna sell all that you better yeah and then it launched and the cool thing was the retailer, the single catalog retailer, Sinead's out of Bozeman that ordered the $5,000 for the product. Three days later,

called back and said, we'll take it all. I mean, they couldn't believe the response to it. I love Bozeman, Montana. Probably like one of the simplest places I've ever been.

Isn't it cool? There'll be like a sign and it says airport and the airport's right there. Like when you're in Los Angeles, you're following that fucking sign. You're like, where is it? I got to turn here for the airport and I got to get off on this exit. And you're trying to figure it out.

And then you get to the airport and it takes like 10 minutes to get on the plane. Yeah. It takes forever. Super simple. In Montana, they, a lot of people just, they park right in, right out in front of the, I saw people park and leave their truck on. Yeah. Just leave it on.

And go in. And they go in and they like grab whoever they're there to pick up. Yeah. Why wouldn't you all do that? I was like, this is awesome. This is truck on. Yeah. Just leave it on. And go in. And they go in and they like grab whoever they're there to pick up. Yeah. Why wouldn't you all do that? I was like, this is awesome. This is Bo's Montana, boy. Like where the hell? Yeah.

California, you'd be arrested. Yeah. I'm like, where the hell am I? No, it's a cool place. Yeah. We have so many similarities. I just want to run through it. Yeah.

I know we do. It's been great to meet you, by the way. I just want to run through it for a second because it is kind of crazy in some way. So your, your wife is, and her family is from Dixon. Yeah. They founded the town. Her kids are seventh generation.

Oh my God. Her grandparents. Did they name it? They must have. Yeah. They came over with the Donner party. Do you know the Donner party? Yeah.

Yeah. Like they're the ones that ate people to survive. Right. And there's. My wife hates it when I tell people that. She's going to be so mad at me right now. Sorry, curse. Yeah. She's come from a're the ones that eat people to survive right and there's my wife hates it when i tell people that she's gonna be so mad at me right now sorry curse yeah she comes from a lineage of people that eat other people cannibals right right yeah you're a survivor though i'm proud of you i saw that when we went to better than starving to death we went to like tahoe i

think like that i saw there's a monument and yeah the sign yeah right that's part of her family that's pretty crazy. Well, we don't have a similarity in eating other people, but, um, my wife is from, it's from Davis, California.

And so, uh, yeah, she grew up here. Her grew up in Davis her whole life and was a swimmer and an athlete and stuff. And that's where your kids get it from. Yeah,

exactly. That's really good. Yeah. I think that's positive. It's all from her, but she also works for the company. She also is the person to say, hey, let's pump the brakes for a second here. Cause you always need that person. You need the person that's, you know, trying to throw a bomb every play and I need a person that's saying, hey, maybe we should just run it up the middle here and there. Right. A hundred percent. Yeah. That's a huge, huge factor. And then we started our business from our garage as well. The best ones.

And Casey Short, who's sitting right here, he was seeing these packages come in and he was like, what the hell? And you saw some of the boxes out there. I mean, it just looks like drugs. These giant white boxes that come in. Coming from overseas in those weird containers. Yeah. Like what the hell, what the hell is it?

And I was, you know, he, he was asking us about it and stuff like that. And he already had a logistics business where he was doing shipping and receiving and, and all that. And just, we started selling and selling and selling. We started selling five products a day and 10 products a day. And you're all direct too, right? Yeah. Like, how'd you like, what started that? Why not go sell it to powerlifting shops?

Yeah. Well, there, you know, powerlifting islifting is, there's just not a lot of us. There's probably a lot less powerlifters than there are even hunters. And so. Well, there's a lot of hunters. Yeah. Very few sheep hunters. It's probably like what you're talking about. Like, we market to sheep hunting, even though.

Right. There's a lot of people that exercise. Right, right. Very few powerlifters though. But they're the geeks, right? They're the ones that live it and breathe it. Yeah. They want the technology.

They want the best. They want the best stuff. Yep. I guess, I mean, the main thing for me was, you know, I tore my pack, I got injured and I was trying to figure out a way, how can I still, how can I still lift? How can I still do the things that I love? And so I created a product that was for me that worked really well for me. Sounds familiar.

And the second that I made it, I was like, oh my God, I have to share this with other people. I need to, it wasn't really, and I know everybody always says it's not about money. And then you're looking at every like millionaire who says, he's like, like, it's easy for you to say it's not about money. Ignore my jet, my yacht, my beach house's not about the money and you're making it rain. Right. But, uh, it truly, it truly wasn't about that, especially from the beginning, as I had no idea what the hell it was going to do. I was just like, other people need to know about this. I know so many ex football players and, and, uh, lifters in the gym that I've met over the years. They'll say, yeah, you know, I used to, you know, Mark, I used to be able to lift heavy weights like that, but can't do it anymore.

My shoulder. I'm that guy. Yeah. This happened, that happened. And I'm like, man, if they could only say they could still do it, they'd be so much happier because they can still enjoy doing the things that they love. I miss doing heavy bench. Yeah. I've had people coming up to me crying.

You know, they're like, man, I, this means so much to me that I I'm emotional over it. You created a product that allows me to do what I love to do. I mean, if I, my strength gets to where I can do 275 more workouts every single time my shoulder lights up. Yeah. You know, with 10, not anymore. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah.

Not anymore with, with, uh, throwing on, throwing on a slingshot. How do you manage, you know, the work life balance and also how do you manage, uh, the relationship with the wifey because she, it does work for the company. It's hard. I mean, it takes, I mean, it has its trying moments, you know, with Kirsten and I, and, and, you know, you've got, you see each other, you're dealing with stressful stuff at business and then you're at home and you're dealing with young family and kids. And at the time when you're at a startup, like we were economies at the bottom, you don't know if things are going to work.

I mean, it's a, it's tough. I mean, thank God for her. And, uh. Do you guys have to communicate sometimes and try to figure out almost like how to communicate with each other? Because, you know, it's, I think as a, as a guy, we're so fucking stupid.

Like. Totally stupid. Yeah. When we're talking to our wife, when I'm talking to Andy, I sometimes just think she, I just need to get certain things done. So I just need to say, and I actually lose, lose sight of the fact that she's a woman, right? Yeah.

Women process things differently and they need to be different. I don't even know if we do process. Yeah. I don't think we do. We don't know what's going on. But I'll say stuff and I'm like, okay, well, I've, I got to rethink it. I'm like, okay, I need to say that in a different way. Yeah. You know, or a different time.

Wine has actually helped a lot because she likes wine. So we throw some wine in there. It's easy to talk. And I can say almost whatever I want. Depends if it's good or not, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's, it takes a lot of, it's taken, it's how it's trying times. It really has and create a lot of stress and right um but you know we've really grown together and she's been my rock to go chase my dreams and she's the coolest thing about curse she's never doubted my ability to pull this thing off and she's always had my back even when it looks like we don't know how we're going to get there. Right. And that's, I mean, our relationship today is better than it's ever been because of our ability to communicate my ability to learn, to communicate. I was a guy that just, it didn't matter what I felt.

I just grind through it. You know, I'm, I'm tough football player, linebacker mentality, but that doesn't work in a relationship. And it took me a long time to figure that out. You can't tackle your wife that way. No, it's just not fair. It's not a relationship if you don't talk about things you need and you just hold everything in.

So, yeah, she's an amazing person. She's one not afraid to speak her mind, where I was one afraid to speak my mind. It's taken some balance, like how she talks to me, how I talk to her. And then the work-life balance thing is tough is tough, uh, especially with our business has grown so fast and I've got to travel overseas for a supply chain. And, um, there's a, it's, I have to really watch my calendar and force myself not to get wrapped up so much in the business that I'm not at home, um, where I'm not seeing

my kids and, uh, and then, you know, hunting season, I'm going at home, um, or I'm not seeing my kids and, uh, and then, you know, hunting season, I'm going on trips, test products, shoot videos, photos. It's just, it's, it's takes like a conscious effort to pull myself back. Cause again, I love what I do. Do you have to consciously, you know, have time away from your phone and stuff like that? So I get home at night, phone goes in the drawer. Now I may have to do it. Specific time, cutoff time.

When I get home. Just when you get home. Yeah. I mean, I may turn it on once the. Specific time, cutoff time? When I get home. Just when you get home. Yeah. I mean, I may turn it on once the kids are in bed or I'm in bed, my computer the same way. Cause I used to work, come home and continue to work. And during a startup, you don't really have a

choice, you know, of other people that can fill in the gaps. And when you're doing overseas manufacturers, you know, their, their daytime is our nighttime. So I used to come home from work and then now I was working with the suppliers overseas. I was working 18 hours a day. But now it's consciously coming home,

computer in the drawer or leaving my bag and my phone in the drawer until I'm getting ready to go to bed and I'll follow up on some emails at the end of the night. But it takes a conscious effort. Right.

It's hard. How are you able to manage going on these hunts where you're gone for two weeks? A great team. Yeah. You know, I was fortunate to get a great COO, Melissa Wolf, um, from day one. She was the second person in to, uh, to believe what I believed.

And the funny thing is she came from a company called Jim Bree, which is kids clothing. Yeah. And she's like the biggest animal lover in the world. And Jim Bree's got their big operation center in Dixon and she lived four houses down. I was like, Hey, can I pick your brain a little bit about this omni-channel similar type of direct to consumer thing that Jim Brie did? And then, um, as I was using her as a consultant, bouncing ideas off of it, Bain Capital came in and took Jim Brie from public to private, uh, six months or five, four months before I was going to launch Kuyu. And I was like, Hey, Melissa, what are you doing

for the rest of your life? Like you can cash in your stock, Bain Capital, you're not going to want to work for them. Come join me to build Kuyu. And fortunately for me, she's like, yeah, I don't want to work for Bain. I've heard bad things about them and they're going to change the culture. And so I was able to get her with her big business experience.

And she created the online business for Jim Brie from zero to like 200 million in revenue. Wow. So she came on early. Not a bad person to have on your side. Wonderful. And then, you know, it's been amazing. I've got, you know, Pat's who's here with us today. I've been able to bring in just so many amazing people

who are so passionate about the business. And it's like we have the coolest team. And it's like, it's a family that we have. That's great. And, you know, people love to come to work. People should, like Pat, I have to tell them, dude, you need to go home. Yeah. You've been here since five. I find myself saying that to these guys. Get out of here. He's like, oh no, I just love, you know, I'm showing up on site. I'm like, you guys take some time. Like they're,

we just love it. Right. And they're competitive and they know we're creating something super special for this business and this business model. And everyone can feel it. Like the energy, the culture, the vibe at KU is like, we're doing something really cool. That's great. And it's just, it's the biggest compliment I can get is my team and how much they do for me and how much they support me

and how much they believe what I believe. Right. Which is everything. Yeah. I got people sometimes will come in and they look sick or they have a cold or something. I'm just like, go home. Like there's, you know, we are trying to change the world, but it doesn't need to

happen on this day. Sure. Go the fuck home. I know. We don't want to get sick either. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we appreciate it, but no, it's true. And, uh, now it's, uh, you know, building a company is, um, as much art as it is probably more so than science. And, and it's so much about people and the people you have to help you and as you you know you start from the garage it's yourself that does everything and then learning to delegate and pass down and trust others you know it's a process that's hard at times yeah handing things off to other people is not always easy that's not how i do it but actually maybe a better way to do it oh yeah that's a something i share with people all the time is have an understanding that they can do a better job.

Yes. And give them the opportunity. I mean, and my philosophy on management is different. I mean, I am a guy that's like, I will put you in position to be successful. I will share with you my vision, but I'm going to let you make all the decisions to get there. I'm not going to micromanage. Knock it. We don't do reviews. You want to know how you're doing? Come see me. I'm not going to micromanage, knock it. We don't do reviews.

You want to know how you're doing? Come see me. If you don't hear from me, it's because you're doing good. Right. And, um, and I just believe autonomy, be able to build what they believe is the right thing to build for the company. It's way better than I could try to sit in their shoes and say,

this is the way you should do it. Even though I don't do it every day. It's like, you're, you're there. Right. We're, we're customer first brand. We're remarkable at everything we do. You do your thing that way. And I'm not going to tell you how to do it. And they love it. It won't be a long time before they're better than you are because they are doing it every day. Exactly. And it motivates them, right? It's their own thing.

They're part of the success. They're not told how to be successful. They're building it within the whole organization. We've had people come in from outside with big corporate resumes. We had a guy come in from HP. Sigma 6 training manuals, qualification, certification. I fired him three days later. I was like, get out the door. We don't run this company that way. We don't throw people in the bus. We don't tell people what they're doing wrong. We don't care about org charts. We just care about doing what's best for the customer. Right.

And, uh, it's, it's fun that way. And, uh, and the guys that are in a lot of everyone's tons of homegrown talent. I don't give a crap. If you have a degree, you don't have a degree. You're either good or you're not good. You're either competitive or not. And, uh, it's let us do amazing things and build a really big company with very few. What was the first product? We did, I did a layering system. So skin to shell system, six piece. And then I had this idea for a carbon fiber framed backpack, which we invented the first one. I've got patents on it. No one had taken carbon fiber.

It sounds like it can't be blown up by a grenade. Well, carbon fiber is an amazing material. It's really light. It's really, you know, it's in, if you engineer it correctly, you can have, you know, really stiffness in certain directions, flex certain way. There's a lot to it. There's a lot to figure out with it too. And fortunately for me, kind of, we talk about meeting the right people at the right times. kind of we talk about meeting the right people the right times a good friend of my dad's uh worked for lockheed martin developed carbon fiber nose cones for nuclear missiles um tomahawk cruise

missiles components and fins out of carbon fiber and carbon fiber mass for america's cup racing boats he invented those so i once we sold sick i went over to a shop and it's actually menden nevada and brought backpacks and i'm like like, I have this idea. Could carbon fiber do this? And he's like, totally good. So it'll actually be a great application. So he helped me create the first kind of working prototypes. And then, you know, over the last seven years, we've really fine-tuned carbon fiber and using our pack line.

It's allowed us to create the lightest weight, heavy load-carrying pack in the world. The frame weighs 11 ounces. It lets us have a modular pack system. It's the biggest innovation in backpacks since the, I don't know if you know backpacks, but they had big metal external frame backpacks back in the day. And then they invented their internal frame. This is a biggest, back in the seventies, the biggest invention in backpacks since the seventies. Wow.

Um. What, what are you most proud of? That. biggest invention in backpacks since the 70s. Wow. What are you most proud of? That. I mean, that's, as far as a product. Yeah. That's my, that's my most proud product. Yeah. You know, cause it was total blue sky idea. Something that was patentable that nobody had done before.

You know, apparel is fun. We can make better jacket with better fabrics, maybe better seam lines or adjust a sleeve or pocket a certain way. But, you know, truly to invent something that never been created before is, is that will always be, you know, kind of my prize project, at least to this point. When you created that first line, um, how did you know, just how did you, how'd you know it was like the right thing? You know, cause it probably took some time to create the, all those six pieces, right? Well, it did. I mean, having the experience from sitka i learned a lot um and i knew about tori japanese fabrics um i just couldn't use them and so i already kind of i visually i knew what i wanted as far as the product the look the feel and then to work with a design design designer

at a factory to put it kind of together um i knew it was spot on we got it done i knew it would be great and you know the big thing with uh with us was weight and performance and the japanese company i buy fabrics from tori as a patent on their yarn on how it stretches and recovers and they don't have elastic in it it's amazing like most stretch fabrics have to have elastic right up to 10 12 15 20 elastic's heavy it holds moisture and has no performance value other than fabric stretched out pulls it back to its original form um just by making a layering system out of tory fabrics with kuyu versus the same layering system i created at sitka we we took four and a half pounds of elastic out of it wow which is a lot if you're climbing a mountain. Yeah. And then you add in the packs

and the weight savings there, we're able to create a lighter weight performing product line and dried faster, lasts longer. And so I just, I knew it was on when we launched it. Andrew, you got a couple of questions over there, buddy? Yeah, I want to pull up this video real quick. Sure.

So what's going on here? That's me still trying to develop products, solving a problem i can't i can't find the answer to um we use spotting scopes for hunting like we're sitting there with binoculars and we spot something a long ways away and then we'll pull out a telescope or we call a spotting scope yeah you know that animal may be a mile away and we're going to dial it in to look at how big it is or or watch it and so we have to carry a tripod. And then that's a head that the spotting scope attaches to, kind of like what you use for your video cameras.

For us, we're using photographic or video heads. Nothing's been specifically designed around hunting. And so weight isn't that important for videographer or someone who's carrying around day-to-day. So this is all machined, crafted by a company called 2A Armament out of Boise, Idaho. And they engineered this and machined out of aircraft aluminum. So it weighs six ounces versus the other one I'm using, which is 23 ounces.

And it performs just as well. So this is the first prototype. Yeah, it looks cool. I mean, it's super cool. Yeah, because, you know, I'm a photographer, so I see that. Yeah. And I'm like, ooh, what do we got here? And and then i'm working on they're also working with me on developing a tripod that'll match up with it nice specific around what we need for hunting yeah and how

to reduce weight dude that's awesome my goal is to have the world's lightest best functioning tripod and headset because there isn't one solution out there yet that everyone goes oh you got to buy this setup yeah because there isn't nobody's totally happy with his hunter so this is just like you know stuff i'm always trying to work on whether it's food whether it's gear whether it's materials yeah product well if you need any r&d me and casey will go out hunting somewhere and i'll i'll take pictures or do it right on yeah i'd be like if you do pictures you can i'll give you a head to test when it's ready yeah sure yeah absolutely that'd be cool man that's the fun stuff to do. Right on. Yeah. It'd be like, if you do pictures, you can, I'll give you a head to test when it's ready. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah, absolutely. That'd be cool, man. That's the fun stuff to do is like this, you know, creation around problem solving.

Yeah. Work on it and I'll see you see that product. any desire to make food? I do. Like bars or something? I want to. Specific foods

or dehydrated foods. 100%. I can't, now that I've been working with Judd, I've realized we don't have the right food. Right. Not for what we do.

Right. And. Yeah, I saw the video where you're like, you got bagels and stuff. I'm like, what's with this guy? Yeah. I can't watch any more of this. I'm just kidding. No, but it's true though, right?

That's before I understood. Right. Really what the body needs. You gotta be jacked in 10. Yeah, you gotta be jacked in 10. But you gotta also train your body to burn on fat. And then you need a fat based diet for what we're doing. And right now it's really hard to put together. Right. Especially when

you're buying bars or they're stacked with carbs. Right. There's some people that make some, uh, you know, interesting things like, uh, I don't know if you ever had fat fudge. I have, it's terrible. Yeah. Taste wise. Yeah. Brogan gave me one. Right. And I was like eating baby poop. Yeah. A lot of poop yeah a lot of people a lot of people don't uh necessarily love the so what's this flavor dude that's that's a sign that i'm in the wrong business so that's a collab we did pat put together with anchorage brewing i don't know if you know of anchorage brewing but there were a craft brewer up out of anchorage they've had crazy following they so cool how they do their beer. Like they, they ferment it in barrels like you

would with wine. Right. Right, Pat? I mean, it's like wine, but it's beer and it creates this crazy flavors and, and they do these, everything's limited runs because they're brewing it in a keg, like a barrel. Right.

So, um, they do limited runs and they came to us because we're, they're big fans of Kuyu're like, hey, can we do Kuyu beer? Matt's like, what do you think? I'm like, of course, for sure. And didn't realize the response when we get to it. So that sold out, I think, almost immediately, right, Pat? And then we have what we call, that's the VS double IPA. Then we have the Verde Pilsner that comes out. When does that come out?

It's an IPA also. Oh, it's an IPA? Yeah. Not a double? And then my favorite one that's coming out is the, hey, where are you getting those? This next one that comes out is the Goliath, which you click on that keg that's right there. Okay. And that's the last one, which is a double stout.

And it's got a picture of this ram I killed. We call it. You're going to create the first, uh, lightweight beer. We got comments on that. Yeah. Is that ultralight?

Yeah. Right. No, it's heavy. Right. Uh, but no, that's a really cool product and a project in this America's response has been great.

And those collabs are fun. Right. And Gabe does an awesome job up there. If you're ever in Anchorage, let me know. Yeah yeah i'll set up a meeting with you you gotta go by and check out what he's doing oh that would be like that niche cool it's like what you're doing right right crafty stuff um so the next thing is is you're gonna launch some stuff in the fitness category we are awesome so what's that look like we train to hunt and um you know i've you know i'm super picky on what i wear um being, being in the business, I'm always turning everything inside out, looking at tags.

And being a fashionista. Yeah, exactly. Being a fashion designer. Uh, just, I train, our customers train and thought, you know, I can make the best training gear in the world and not have to have retail markup in it and make stuff better than some of the market i want it maybe our customers would so i built some prototypes trained in it took some pictures put them on instagram and you're like oh man can i get some so our first product line comes out this fall around the holiday season we can buy we had gym bag and uh training shorts and shirts and hoodie zip up zip up hoodies and gym shirts and then that'll continue to expand throughout next year gym socks and it's amazing stuff i'll set you up in it yeah it'd be great stuff dries faster weighs less like our shirts are amazing fantastic brown fabric we're using for our

our pants and our shirts now yeah i mean people need they need uh more choices you know there's not a lot of great not on premium quality right you Right. You know, I think Lulu does a good job, but it's my wife's brand. Right. You know, as far as really good quality performance fabrics, um, I see them buying fabrics from some of our similar suppliers and, but I know where Nike buys fabrics and I know where Adidas and it's just, that's all cut rate, low quality stuff. And where do you go buy good quality, well-made training gear. What's next for you guys? Business-wise? Just continue to do what we're doing. You're going to see

fitness coming out. We're going into youth because I've got kids. We've had a huge response to initial marketing around that. You're going to see from us a wider range of solid colors, lifestyle products, men's accessories, computer bags, computer backpacks,

stuff you can use day to day. Our customers want more KU. They want to use more KU in their life because they love the quality of the fabric, the brand, and what we can deliver at the price we do.

So our goal is just to continue to do what we're doing and taking care of our customers with new innovations and new technologies and focusing on also working with technology and design to reduce weight and increase performance. We've got a new product line coming out next year. It's a whole new skin-to-shelf system that will reset the bar in technical apparel and layering so far above what's ever been created and it's everything's from the raw material all the way through to the finished product is all new all created with with

working with tory working with a really innovative designer the factories on new construction technologies and that launches out next year and it's um i just saw some of the samples it's so cool and it weighs less performs better and is and is going to really push us far ahead of any technical apparel company in the world. Two things. I think you need to have a book. I do. That'll keep you more busy. And the second thing is I think you need to have a podcast.

You know, we've talked about it. Why are you talking about it? Just do it. Let's go. Get rolling. I know. I'm like that too. Like, why don't you do that?

It's so good if you don't quit talking about it. Just do it. Let's go. Get rolling. I know. I'm like that too. Like, why don't you do that? It's so good. Don't quit talking about it. You definitely should. Thank you. You have a lot of information to give people. And I'm sure, you know, even if you did some of it a little bit this way, like we're live. I think it's great live. If you do it, if you do it live, you can answer some questions.

You can have interaction with your fans as you do with your product launches. No, it's great. And I love to share. Right. You know, I get people ask me questions about business. Sharing is caring. It is. I love to share. Right. You know, I get people asking me questions about business. Sharing is caring. It is. I love giving back.

Right. I mean, I'm sure you do too. I mean, it's very rewarding. Anyone I can help with my story and inspiration is so rewarding. You have a store? I do. Where's the store at? It's on Dixon.

It's on Dixon, right off the freeway, right along I-80. It's a thousand square feet stacked with gear and equipment and expertise. It's awesome. That little store does. Where's the company based out of? In Dixon. Oh, okay. Yeah, right where our store is.

It's in a part of our office. It's kind of like what you've got set up here. Yeah. That's cool. And then we just expanded and opened up another 5,000 square feet of office space. And now we're just, we're. One step at a time. One step at a time, as you

know. Anything else, Andrew? No, I just want to say, I think it's great that you're coming out with solid colors for your gear. Thank you. Cause like growing up, like all the kids that either, uh, had a dad or uncle that was into like hunting and stuff, they always wore like the, the camo gear to school and stuff, you know, they're always in like, or they're looking like Elmer Fudd.

Yeah. Yeah. They're like, Oh yeah. Usually it was always the kids in ag and stuff, you know? Like, I had no, like, I couldn't, like, I had zero in common with them. But the one day I did try on some hunting gear, like, a buddy of mine let me borrow it because it was raining and I had nothing. And I was like, dude, this is awesome, but I can't wear my Reebok Classics, a backwards snapback, and a fucking, you know, duck skin jacket. I'll look like a tool. But with Casey's jacket, he's showing it off.

And I'm like, dude, that's a sick jacket. Oh, our Cuy jacket that he had? Yeah, yeah. It's lightweight. It's warm. So I think that's great, dude. Yeah, it's always been part of the plan. It's just been getting to financials,

ability financially to support bringing in solids. I mean, we couldn't keep camo in stock. So it's like, why do solids sell slower? So now it's part of the overall plan. And you'll see almost everything in solids and a big push into just pure lifestyle plays too now. That's cool. And then keeping everything lightweight,

when you started the podcast, you were talking about hunting sheep. Yeah. And I know a lot of people are inexperienced, or they just don't know exactly. Not the sheep you see when you're driving down the road. Yeah. So can you explain why hunting sheep is so damn hard? Sure. Yeah. It know a lot of people are in, or they just don't know. Not the sheep you see when you're driving down the road. Yeah. So can you explain why hunting sheep is so damn hard? Sure.

Yeah. It's truly the ultimate test. If you're, if you're a hunter and you want to test yourself, you go sheep hunting. Um, and you go sheep hunting for like a doll sheep or a stone sheep, which is two, what they call thin horn sheep. There's four species in the United States. There's two thin horns and two big horns. Uh. What's unique about hunting like a doll sheep is the place you have to go. So we'll hunt up in the Yukon, Alaska, the Northwest territories. It's very remote.

When you're that far North, the weather conditions have, you know, you're going to see a wide range of weather conditions that can change rapidly. I've been in the situation where it's been 20 below zero. I've had it where it's been scorching hot, where we're diving into snow banks to get out of the heat. Wow.

The physical requirements, the training, the preparation, it's the ultimate test. And then sheep, because they're so remote and they live in such unique places, they're very tough to hunt. They have incredible eyesight. So it's like, you know, it's truly the ultimate test. Yeah.

You know, you're going to go do the most remote, most difficult, most challenging thing in the world as a hunter. And you want to test your skill, you go sheep hunting and then you try to shoot the oldest ram that lived to be up to 12 years old. We've killed, I've killed one that's 14 years old.

And then you try to find the oldest one in the mountain, which makes it even that much harder. They're that much smarter. Um, and that's testing yourself. It's like anything we do right it's like i want to get to a thousand pound bench right right that's my mark like i want to be a sheep hunter from the time i was a kid i want to hunt sheep and uh we market to that that that target market because if our gear can stand up to what people are going to face in those conditions

those places then it's going to work great to go deer hunting in my backyard. Right. Right. Kind of like the outdoor brands talking about their gears for Everest, but people are wearing it to walk their dog in the park. Right. It's cool because of it. Yeah.

It's aspirational. Like, just like what you've done with, you know, focusing on powerlifting. Absolutely. And those customers. So does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for explaining that.

Yeah. It's not helping sheep over the fence. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. I don't judge people that do that, but it's cool. Yeah. Hey, it was awesome having you on the show here today. I'm glad you got a chance to check out Super Training. I'll have to come over and check out your spot over there. I'd love to have you.

I'd love to have you show me around a little bit. That would be awesome. I'd love to show you what we do. Where can people find you? You can find us at kuyu.com. You can always find me on social media, Instagram. I have my own personal Instagram, Jason M. Harrison. Or you can just call the office. I'll answer the phone. You send me emails, jasonh.kuyu.com. I've always been available. You guys have a YouTube channel as well. We have a YouTube channel. We have a company Instagram, company Facebook, easy to find. Awesome.

Multiply your hustle, multiply your muscle, and may all your shits be tapered. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength. See you guys later. Thanks for having me. you