Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 68 - 4x Mr. Olympia Jay Cutler

Episode Date: June 11, 2018

Jay Cutler is an IFBB Pro Bodybuilder, 4X Mr. Olympia, and Founder of Cutler Nutrition and Cutler Athletics. He has 20+ years of training and supplementation knowledge. Rewatch the live stream here: https://youtu.be/dd24YmyCmbo ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/markbellspowerproject FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

whatever, fourth now. He won the first physique, classic physique. You know who Danny Hester is, though, right? Yeah, absolutely. He's been training at Gold's way back. He's been around forever, and he's still shredded. He's still in really good shape. He trains Mickey Rourke.

It's amazing how that Gold's Gym Venice feels to me like it's forever frozen in in time what do you mean nothing changes there like people are like stuck there i was just having this who did i talk about one of the guys i was just talking about how people look the same for was it the girls i was talking to i think the girls i said people look the same you know 30 years later when i go back home and they've trained longer than me and probably been in the gym more than me in 30 years and they still look the same did you used to train at gold's gym venice regularly i did actually the first time it was kind of a funny story because like

when you're in massachusetts all you hear about is the mecca bodybuilding right and i was one of those people that didn't realize that it's not the original Gold's Gym where Arnold trained. Like that's someone's house now. You're knocking the door and these people, old people come to the door and it still says Gold's Gym on the front of their house. I never understood why someone's house, they want to still have Gold's Gym on the front of their house.

But, uh, so I was able to travel out to Gold's Gym Venice when I was nine. I just had won the teen nationals at 19 and Chris Asito was training, uh, Paul DeMayo. Remember Paul DeMayo? Yeah. The huge legs. Yeah. For, uh, for the Mr. USA and that's the year of Cormier actually won his pro card and. Quadzilla.

Yeah. Right. That's his name. Paul DeMayo. Quadzilla. He was favored to win. You know, Craig Titus was in that show. Mike Francois was in that show. Dennis Newman, when he was on the upcoming and, uh, he called me and he says, Hey Jay, I have an opportunity for you. And there was a misprint in the Boston globe, which was a big newspaper in Massachusetts. And they, they had round trip airline tickets on American for $99. Oh shit. So for, for me being broke, uh, just coming off the teen nationals, I was like,

man, I'm going to take advantage. So I literally called all night long. And just before midnight, I actually got ahold of someone and they said, oh, sorry, it's a misprint. I said, well, you have to honor it. Right. And they said, yeah, we do. So I was able to fly round trip tickets to, uh, California. And I was able to go out and watch that show. And I remember, you know, we stayed quite a distance from Gold's and my girlfriend at the time. And I walked to the gym and I remember going there and being like, oh my goodness, I'm in Gold's Venice. And that was like historic.

What year are we talking about? 93. So Paul Dillette around at that year? Yeah. He was there, but Flex Wheeler was there. Obviously Cormier won the show i saw him posing in the gym i saw keanu reeves in there tommy lee jones was there when i was there but we stayed in that gym for like six hours we're like one of those like tourist people that just

sat and watched and who's gonna come and like that was like a i only read about it in the magazines keanu getting ready for speed that was around that time i think the girl that was like a, I only read about it in the magazines. Keanu getting ready for speed. That was around that time. The girl that was in speed with him. Uh, no, not speed point break with a short hair. She was training there all the time. I don't know what her name was. There's tons of famous people, professional wrestlers, professional bodybuilders, actors, actresses, producers, directors.

I mean, you name it it's a a conglomerate of you know uh these high level people just kind of in their training and working out it's it's a strange dynamic yeah the barbarian brothers were there remember the barbarian brothers absolutely the barbarian brothers those were those guys were a bunch of savages they used the entire stack on just about every exercise yeah i didn't understand like they were in overalls and shit in the gym and work boots, you know, that wasn't, that wasn't something we saw in Massachusetts. So it was like a bit of a culture shock and people with like very high Afros and like outfits I've never seen before. Yeah. Remember the, uh, you'd look in like Flex magazine and somebody would have sunglasses on

in the gym, a stringer tank top, some weird frayed, like cutoff shorts, a fanny pack, and those giant ass, uh, bodybuilding shoes. And you were like, what the hell is like, how long did it take somebody to get ready for the gym? Oh, these guys were done up, you know, and back then we wore the bushy socks and all that stuff

to make our calves look bigger. And we wore the unitards. Wait, wait, wait. What's this? Bushy socks make the calves look bigger. I had to write smoky, bushy socks. Write that down. We need bushy socks.

Make the calves look bigger. I'll utilize whatever trick we need to utilize. That's part of that attire we talked about bringing back the balloon pants and all that shit. Oh yeah, the bum equipment. Yeah. T. Michael. So at 19, you were already pretty deep into this. When did you get into bodybuilding? I started at 18. My 18th birthday I actually joined the gym. So you must have pretty good genetics. I mean, I know a lot of people want to push things off the genetic potential and whenever there's a Mr. Olympia or somebody who's a professional at something, people are like, oh, it's genetics.

But there must be a huge genetic component if you were able to grow that much and be successful in one year of bodybuilding. You know, what's crazy is I grew up in a kind of construction farm background. So I had a stocky body. I was an athlete. I was a football player. Would you say Husky? I don't know. Not Husky because Husky is kind of like, I think faddish.

Yeah. Like faddish beardish guys, you know? Yeah. I'm understanding. We get very frustrated with that type around here poor smoky so so you know i was lean and uh i was just you know i'm five foot nine so i don't i don't i don't call myself short but i'm not tall right i mean it's the ideal ideal height that's the biggest biggest thing people like oh i thought you're taller in the magazines. I said, no, I was just wider, but not as tall. And for me, you know, I had grown up

with a athletic background, meaning I was just a lot of, I was very physical. So like we, I had to work a lot. I did concrete work in my brother's business. I did farming work, but I was, you know, I was kid, active kid. I did bike riding. I did all that stuff. You know, played sports in the neighborhood and everything. And in high school, I played football. But even before I get into football, I was always flexing for like, you know, my sisters or brothers, friends. You know, I was arm wrestling. I was a great arm wrestler, even at 14, 15. And you were flexing probably because you had some muscle.

I had muscles. I mean, I mean i was like hey flex your arm i mean it's funny because we can dig back into the photo albums the family photo albums and there's so many pictures of me flexing when i was like five seven nine because i had you know little biceps and all that stuff but i always wanted to be like a superhero i mean that was my thing i remember i saw a picture of chris dickerson who was a former mr olympia at 12 and i I told my oldest brother, uh, his name is Bob. And I said, this is what I want to look like. And he thought I was crazy. I mean, he's like, this guy's got muscles everywhere. You know, why would you want to look like that? And I just saw it to me, it kind of intrigued me a little bit. And that's, uh, kind of where I started with the

idea of, Oh, I want to get into weight training. And I had that mindset. It just didn't happen until I was 18 and for many reasons. What were some of the reasons? What were some of the hurdles in trying to get into it? Because I was forced to work. I was forced to work a lot. I mean, I got the time, you know, my family actually allowed me to play football, which they were begging me to come play football and do track.

I just couldn't commit to track because there was only so much time I was working like before school, after school, school vacations, weekends, and that was a family business. So there was no really set hours. It was like, until we get the job done. So I was limited on what I could really do. And, you know, when I did those, those team sports, it didn't really excite me. I was very good it but i kind of i was kind of an introvert and i didn't have uh a lot of social uh i didn't really want to be a social and although i became really popular in school and mostly because of my partying like we partied a lot uh that's really you know i kind of like enjoyed time by myself and that's why I think I adapted so well when I started weight training at 18. But I was very limited with time and that's why I didn't get into the weight training.

Although I partied a lot. What's that mean? Just like hung out or like drank or. We drank, uh, I would, you know, drink alcohol. Obviously, uh, we had huge parties. I had a lot of land, you know, we had like, like a hundred acres of farmland. So we'd have these big bonfire parties and the whole school would show up.

Holy shit. You know, even when I was a sophomore, like everyone would, you know, party at the Cutler house and people would come there, we'd get kegs of beer.

I think by the way, this is the East coast thing. Cause we did the same thing. And, uh, we would all party. There'd be 400 kids partying outside. And every weekend it was like,

man, you could have another party. And of course with the party and came, you know, a lot of friends and, you know, people want to be friends with you and whatever. So I had some of the biggest parties in the history of my high school, I think. What was, uh, what was like your introduction to weights? How'd you, how'd you, I mean, I know you said you had a lot of interest in them and then was there somebody that said, Hey, let's go to a gym or was there coach or mentor right off the bat or you just made a decision one day i'm gonna get a gym membership because i'm 18 i actually i started watching

rocky movies i think that's kind of inspired me in the beginning and of course i heard of arnold actually the funny thing is i didn't watch Pumping Iron until later, but I started looking at magazines off magazine racks. And that's kind of how I got introduced. I remember going in GNC and seeing very limited amount of supplements. It was more just vitamins and stuff like that. And I started reading books from there. The first book I ever read at 16 was this Beyond Built by Bob Parris. That was kind of my guideline. I ended up writing a read at 16 was this beyond built by Bob Paris. That was, you know,

kind of my guideline and up writing a book later that kind of mimicked that, but, uh, that was the first book that I ever read that was instructional training. And I kind of took those, a lot of those theories and a lot of those exercises that he posted in that book. And that's what I put towards my training, although I was more visual. So I watched guys work out in the gym. Did he ever know that? Did Bob, does Bob Paris? I'm sure he knows. Cause I've mentioned it so many times.

And Chris Dickerson knows he was the first bodybuilder I ever saw in a magazine. And I just had this vision of, okay, this is what I want to do, but I knew I was partying too much and I wasn't on a good diet. And I learned about the nutrition aspect. And to this day, I preach nutrition. Anyone that speaks to me or listens to my seminars or read what I speak about, it's nutrition because nutrition is the key to all building the ultimate body. You know that yourself. I mean, your body composition has changed a lot. So for me, it was like, okay, I know the structure that needs to be there. I'm not willing to commit to that until I graduated high school. When I started actually going to college, you know, I joined the gym on August

3rd, 1991, which is my birthday. I was turning 18 and I joined the local gold gym, which was Worcester, Massachusetts, right outside my hometown. And then, you know, I didn't start training until the fall. I started school like probably two weeks later in college. I was pursuing a degree in criminal justice. And that's when I stopped working for the family business and I could focus on school and working out. And that's how it all started. What was the family business?

You mentioned some farming and some construction. Concrete work. My brother's still on that business. All their kids are working in it now. But they wanted me to be involved with that, which I hated it. I did it from 11 to 18. And I knew that that wasn't how I wanted to live the rest of my life. What do your parents think of bodybuilding? They didn't like it in the beginning. They were just kind of like this is kind of stupid um it really doesn't i don't understand how you can make a living at it and i didn't actually that was my my whole goal was man if i could just finance myself i used to see guys pictured in magazines next to ferraris i thought every guy was rich that lifted weights

you know on muscle fitness right uh little did i know sooner or, most of the guys don't make a lot of revenue, you know. That wasn't their car. Yeah. It was called what they call today, posers, you know. Right. So they were kind of confused and listen, no one, seven kids, I'm the youngest, no one lifted weights.

My dad was 65. Uh, he had raised kids already that didn't, weren't into that kind of stuff. So he just thought okay if you're not using a shovel or a hammer how are you going to make money because that's how we grew up and i had a huge opportunity in front of me in the family business although he he was he was favored favored towards me going to college because none of my brother a lot of my brothers and sisters never graduated high school but they were hard workers and they were very successful that's just how we grew up.

I mean, kind of like, you know, I was making money at 11 years old and buying all my own stuff. I had a car registered and insured when I was 14. I drove it all the driver's license. I mean, this is what it was, you know, and, uh, I was, you know, very successful and I made a lot of money in high school because I worked for the family business. So I was able to go out to dinner. I bought my own clothes and I was doing well, you know, enough financially. Although once I get into weight training, it wasn't as easy because I stopped working for the business and I was working like real jobs doing security. And I worked as a line cook. I worked on a golf course. I was making between five and $7 an hour. So I'd have to work, work a lot of hours for my chicken breasts and the gas from cars.

I mean, shit, I drive to the gym. I remember driving to gym and back then gas was 99 cents a gallon. I remember running out of gas, but I didn't care because I was, you know, heading to the gym. I'd scrounge up change. I'm going to put 99 cents in my car sometimes just enough to get back and forth to the gym. Many times been there myself. But you know what?

I didn't care because I was hitting gym. And, you know, back then it's like we were training in, you know, I was training in tights and I was huge, huge on, I was a big squatter. I was able to do a lot of weights and right away I was adapted to the weight training, you know, faster than most of the, those kids were. As a matter of fact, like I joined the gym in August and by Christmas time, you know, faster than most of the, those kids were. As a matter of fact, like I joined the gym in August and by Christmas time, you know, all the guys were asking me in the gym that I thought were huge. Like, what am I doing? Because I was progressing so quickly. And then by the spring,

I was competing in my first show and I got second, my first contest. And that was, wasn't even a year into training. A lot of people use money as like a crutch and they'll say, I don't have the money to like jump into some of that. Um, but it sounds like you figured out a way. You know what I did have, my mom helped me a lot. You know, my mom helped me with the food and I did, you know, I put everything towards, I drove a piece of shit car and, you know, I was scrounging up as little. I didn't do any other activities. It was strictly, all my money was spent on trying to better my body. And, uh, I had saved money, fortunately, through my teenage years. So I was able to live off that for quite some time. So I was able to

finance at least the food and, you know, the transportation and, and I was going to college, like I said. So, you know, I finished my two D two year degree. And when I graduated with my associates in criminal justice, I was actually competing at the teen nationals, which I won as a teenager. And from then on, I knew, okay, this is going to be my career. This is what I want to do. Where do you think some of the drive came from? Just, it came from your, your parents giving you some, uh, foundation, some structure. It sounds like my drive was being forced to do what I had to do in the family business at the point when I was 11 12 13 all the way to 18 I hated my dad and my brothers because I remember them dragging me out of bed especially in high school when I used to probably mention those

parties I mean I would be like hung over and they'd be like you have to get up and go to work at six o'clock and I'm like I just got in an hour ago. And, uh, for me, it was just partying and girls. That's all I cared about in high school. And, uh, I didn't care about, you know, I, it was a family business. So I like had no real structure at work. I showed up, I worked, we worked 14 hour days and, uh, you know, they did, they taught me the discipline. So later that set me up for definitely, uh, when I set out to do certain goals, I, as a, as a Cutler, we never failed at me the discipline. So later that set me up for definitely, uh, when I set out to do certain goals, I, as a, as a Cutler, we never failed at what we did. So that discipline was there. The dedication had to be there because I was dedicated to working so much. And that work

ethic really like carried over from that working family, the, uh, blue collar stuff right and it's uh like monotonous like uh concrete it's like it's concrete it's the same it's the same process every single time it was the same you know we waited for the sun to come up and we were working under headlights at night because it's as a family business you don't care about hourly wage right even though i was paid by the hour, uh, I mean, shoot, we were working for, I literally 14, 15 hour days. And I remember, you know, it's, it's crazy. Cause I would pray in the morning. I remember saying, please get me through this day. Cause I couldn't wait to be able to do something at night and hoping that the day passed so fast. I mean, so many people wake up and they want to just get through their days, right. Cause they just don't like what they do. And that's how I was. I mean, I, I used to pray every morning,

like, please make this day pass faster. And that's when I knew, I mean, after years and years of doing it, that wasn't my passion. Um, did your, uh, dad or brother also make you interact with the customers or are you more like grunt work? I was grunt work, but I was still like, I was very mature for my age. Yeah. Everyone that met me didn't realize I was a 14, 15, 16, 17 year old kid. Cause that's a big component to having a, having a business like that. I mean, you can't, can't have anybody damage it. And, uh, you must've learned a little bit of how of how to deal with people in a certain way, I guess.

To be honest, I grew up around adults. So for me, I acted like an adult. And I carried myself, you know, very professionally. And I carried conversation. And I knew what was going on. It wasn't like I just was there as a body. I had to know the business. I learned the business.

I was good at what I did. But I was also a beast, you know. I was to know the business. I learned the business. I was good at what I did, but I was also a beast. You know, I was to lug in concrete forms around and I had the structure that the illusion of me, like everyone thought I was older then. And what did you weigh? Almost 200. And I was lean. So when you're 16, 17, that's still, that's why I was a great football player. I was bigger, bigger faster stronger than most of the kids i may mention i benched 315 in high school like without even really lifting weights it's for that you know that was like people used to i remember being at basketball

games and they would everyone would come in it was like a like an audience and they'd say jay come on come on let's watch you bench 315 because no one did that shit you know so we all go in the weight room and they'd watch me bench press and everyone be like mind blown that I could actually do that much weight. Do you think that helped a little bit, uh, you know, starting your lifting a little bit later? I mean, even, even you did start as a teenager, but, uh, a lot of people start, like I started at like 11, 12 years old. Do you think that was an advantage for you later on starting a little bit later? I don't think that's really that late, to be honest.

I mean, I asked these kids nowadays. I mean, yeah, kids younger are starting because it's more apparent now, but I thought that was like the right time. I mean, when you're, you know, kind of maturing and, uh, I just, you know, I think my mindset was right then. So I, I think it just worked out perfectly. I mean, I, I look back at my career and as we get deeper in a conversation about it, I don't really regret anything. I thought that was the right age for me to start. I was more focused on, okay, this is a turning point in my life. This is really what I want to do. I started

pursuing like what my passion I learned was, was weightlifting. I mean, I love to be in the gym and I always tell everyone it wasn't about the body. It was about the mind at first. And then it turned into when I saw the progression of the body, that's really what kept me motivated to continue. And I saw a huge progression. When did you learn about anabolic steroids? Because that is a part of bodybuilding and so with you seeing these bodybuilders and like even sylvester stallone was there a point where you kind of learned about it and you were like wait what or did you kind of know about it progressively as you were diving into it i knew about it you know and it was more apparent when i showed up at the teen nationals i

could see guys in better condition and like you know guys that have more mature muscle at 17 18 19 and that's when i realized wow this is you know this is something that if i'm going to continue to do i i'm going to have to dabble in something like that and uh i didn't know much about like the deep ins and outs of training for a contest and what you needed to do but i knew about testosterone i mean of course I watched the Rocky movies at 12 and saw Ivan Drago taking his testosterone shots. What a cheater. Stallone would never do that. The United States would never act that way. So I thought, shit, you know, that's the way, you know.

But of course, at 12, you think you're influenced. The movie means, okay, he lost and steroids aren't the answer, right? Right. Son of a bitch. Yeah. As you got into it further or just even like seeing more modern day bodybuilding and seeing the size that people have grown to, it seems like there's people are confused. People are a lot of people think it's just drugs. And a lot of people think the guy that drugs and a lot of people think uh the guy

that gets the first place trophy just took a lot more shit than everybody else what are some of your thoughts on that i think it's bullshit because when i started training you know i worked with i mentioned you know when i started about six months in i met chris aceto who trained me for almost my whole career who was a great nutritionist. Uh, he, uh, he actually graduated first in his class exercise and nutrition and at Springfield college, which a lot of people don't know. And he taught me a lot about the nutrition aspect. And the funny thing is, is we rarely talked about drugs. Uh, and because that really wasn't one of those things. I mean, as a teenager, you, you really, you know, I had the physique and I was progressing super fast.

And everything was very, very basic. And that's the way I kind of believed. And I saw success right away from that. So I wasn't eyeing, okay, well, to move forward, I need to do a ton of drugs or anything like that shit. I mean, it was kind of like voodoo, right? No one talked about it. And we didn't have the internet. So you couldn't read about like cycles and that kind of stuff.

The magazines definitely didn't talk about it. Um, every guy was natural in the magazine and, uh, you know, every guy was just like, you know, took the supplements, the weeder, you know, the chewable wrench chain aminos or whatever they were selling at the time. So for me, you know, to see what's happened now and see what people's perception is of what everyone takes, including myself, when I was winning Mr. Olympia titles, it's just, I mentioned you guys earlier, you know, when you, when you're a Mr. Olympia contender, like this has been 13, right?

I was number 11. Listen, we, we're destined for greatness, you know, know drop take the drugs in or out drugs aren't going to make that person because you have to have the structure you have to have the mindset you have to have the muscle capability to manage that much size and that much condition on stage balance all that symmetry those things you talk about and i just think that society is becoming so jaded with with how they perceive like what it takes to be at the top and they want shortcuts and we talk about that you know you touched on an important thing was it was a work work ethic and a lot of today's society lacks that because it's the upbringing that brings that you know that blue collar shit that you don't

hear about anymore like you know me sitting there telling you i prayed every day to get through my work days like that shit's like that's what makes a person and i never was the most genetically gifted guy on that olympia stage but i trained my ass off and i uh i knew how to diet and i i was always on track with everything i mean i everything was structured i lived in a fucking box in order to be the best meaning i had no outside people call me with their problems i'd hang up on them like the phones were off don't bother me with negative shit and i just went at it and i think now the bodies yes there's some drug-induced bodies i think it's got out of control i mean you talk about all these peptides and all the bullshit now that goes into it.

These people come up and ask me questions. I mean, I was in Houston this past weekend, and they're like, hey, what do you think about this? I don't even know these fucking terms anymore, these people use. I mean, I have no idea. I know about testosterone. I know about a few cutting agents and whatever, but it's not something I'm even educated on. So I can't even speak on it. And people look at me like, oh, he's full of shit.

But it's a different era now. And I think that the internet's fucked everything up. And I think that the magazines, you know, they gave a certain amount of information the right way. And once it became live on the net and you got these kamikaze type people, I think it kind of threw a wrench in a lot of things and influenced a lot of these young kids. What is it about some of the stuff with the internet that you don't like? There's a lot of positives to it, obviously too, but what are some things that you don't like about the internet? It gives everyone a voice that don't know what they're talking about. I mean, I think really

that's opinions, right? I can post a picture on Instagram and say, Hey, you know, what do you think, uh, what do you think my best body part is or whatever? And everyone's going to go from calves all the way to the, you know, neck, you know, and they're going to say, oh, you're back and this and that. And then they're going to say, well, Ronnie Coleman had a better back. That's not the question I asked, right?

It was about what do you, which body part was my best? Yeah. Fuck you, Ronnie Coleman. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think he's the greatest question i asked right it was about what which body part was my best yeah fuck you ronnie coleman yeah you know i mean i think he's the greatest ever but you know we did our battles and right you know people have their opinions like judges had theirs i didn't necessarily agree with the judging i think a lot of it was off but uh i have a lot in my favor too so it's not like i'm gonna sit there and rag on the judging but listen man

the fans are fans are fickle like that they just they have their favorites and you know you're you're hot for a while and then once you win a few they hate you right but fortunately for me i've carried a huge fan base of all ages uh i still travel tremendously and i'm still respected in this business to a lot of people and uh that's why I continue to do what I do. And that's what drives me today. What did it take for you to be the best? You know, for each person, it's different. Some people, some people meditate and do weird shit. Right. And some people will just, uh, you mentioned to me like that you had coaches, uh, that worked on flexibility. You got a lot of soft tissue work. It would sound to me like that you took this as a job almost. What's weird about it is it sounds like you put yourself in the same prison

that you were in when you were a kid and you went to work that way. I think I tortured myself, to be honest. Decided that maybe you liked some of that? I lived a very structured lifestyle. And I don't know how it is in the power, power lifting world, but like, we're kind of, uh, there's a lot of superstition, right. Of like getting off trends. So like getting off trend, like, yeah.

Trends got to get off that trend off. So with me, like I was contracted, right? Most of my career. I mean, Joe Weider signed me to contract when I was 23 and I was paid to work out, which was amazing to me. So I was getting a check no matter what, but I didn't take advantage of that, which I think a lot of guys do. So my life was structured where I'd still get up at six or seven in the morning and

I would train whatever twice a day. I'd be in bed at nine or seven in the morning and I would train whatever twice a day. I'd be in bed at nine or 10 o'clock and then they would start the next day. So I treated it with a, with a solid routine. You know, I followed the diet regimens, like I said, and you know, everything was on point. But I think the dedication and the commitment to what I do, I mean, that's really what makes the athlete. You know, I, I, like I said, I wasn't genetically gifted in certain areas, but I made up for it with the hard work. And that comes from the background, obviously the upbringing, but I was also stubborn as hell, right? I mean, I, I just, I was told I couldn't do this. I couldn't do that. I was told I wouldn't

be a good pro. I was told I'd never turn pro, never win the Olympia, never win it more than once after I lost it. They said, then they'd come back and win it again. So I think a lot of that's a little ego too. I mean, you have to have a little ego to be able to do what I do and be great at it. But I think everyone in their own right is destined for greatness. It just depends on what platform or what level they're willing to put out. And, you know, for me, it was, it was the fitness bodybuilding thing that allowed me to showcase my best talents you need to have an ego um especially to get up in front of people like

that and pose in a little pair of underwear right i mean honestly dude in the beginning i thought it was so fucking weird you know like my my mom is like you know she didn't get it like we put on that dye and you know shaving the body like you, like you're going to, you're going to do here in a couple of months. It's so strange. And, you know, you, you, you're like orange, right. And you get up on stage and under the lights and you hit these poses and, you know, you have to learn how to, you know, show your strong points, but hide your weaknesses. And everyone has weaknesses, you know. And also be somewhat entertaining.

I mean, it's not just flexing, right? It's not. You've got to be comfortable, which it's not. I mean. If you don't, if you don't look comfortable, they're going to recognize that. Yeah. And it's, uh, you know, for me, like that wasn't the fun part about what I did. The fucking, the best part was training in the gym.

Like I love to train. Like I still, to this day, I love to train, but it was like the changes in the body. And that was enough for me. But, you know, I was forced to get on stage because that was the only, that was the only, uh, place that I could showcase what I worked for in the gym. I think we feel the same with powerlifting. We don't really love the platform that much. We love the gym. You know, and probably some of your best lifts happened in the gym and not in a competition, right? Yeah yeah some of the things i'm more proud of did happen in the gym and it's for different reasons you know you pour so much into uh the actual competition itself that in some

weird way it almost makes you sick you know you're like fuck i just don't even want to think about anything like you know if you had like a saturday sunday where all the guys would get together and you guys would you know you guys would converse in between like on the stage you don't have that shit right you're all the people that help get you there have to sit in the audience and you wonder what they're thinking because they're up there with you you know just with you know not standing next to you but they're they're living with you so like it's just not the best place to showcase what kind of got you there and i i felt like i was a little outside myself when i was up on stage until I got really comfortable shit I remember guest posing and I really wasn't that comfortable

until I got really good at it and then uh you know it's just like okay I'm coming up here just let me collect this trophy and and go back to my normal life that's how I kind of felt for the competitions so it really if you ever look at my victories and my losses, especially the Olympia, I had no reaction because I really, I didn't really care. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, I worked my ass off, but I, I won that shit already. Like before I showed up because I want, it was always challenges to myself, not what the judges decided and what the audience approval was. You were better than you were the year before and you knew it and you weren't. I was better just through the obstacles that are thrown at you in preparation, right?

Every year obstacles were thrown at me. So for me, it was like, okay, I can stand up and showcase this, but it doesn't represent really what happened in the 16 weeks or even the, the, you know, 50 weeks that took to get there. So it was just a, you know, like a minute that I was standing up there and flexing with a bunch of guys and then, you know, either grabbing a trophy or not and going home and going back to the same life. I mean, it didn't change anything. It changed how busy I was or whatever, but listen, man, I was happy either way, whether I won or lost, it really didn't make much difference in my life. Like some people take it more serious than others. I was winning just being able to do what I love to do. Let's see if

that makes any sense. What about when you were by yourself, like, um, you know, later that night, or when you kind of thought about it and you're, you're sitting there and you have your trophy or you're sitting there, uh, with your second place second place trophy i mean did you break down and cry whether you won or lost or was there like some sort of weird emotion that that started to happen uh you know what it's you know it's not as good to look at right i mean the second place is you know that built my character because it made the first that much better, but honestly, it, it didn't affect me, uh, either way. And I sat with my team and, you know, cause I always had a team and I was like, you know, is this, you know, what can we do to be better? Whether I won or lost, it was always the same discussion. That's the craziest thing. Like I won the Mr. Olympia four times and those four times,

just like the six times I got second it was the same discussion like okay who looked good uh you know how can i improve what areas are better uh what barriers need work it was the same discussions like there was no difference so for me it was it was just back to the drawing board let's get this shit done let's move forward and try to improve my body and enjoy that year process of getting back in the gym and training for it. That's really what it was. Just the attitude of always trying to figure out a way to get better. It was, it's never sad. It's like going and looking in the mirror, which I did, you know, 150 times a day.

Right. And I hit those poses and I say, I need bigger arms. So I need bigger calves or I need bigger, bigger, you know, cuts and you know, this right leg or whatever. Like there was always improvements I needed to make. And I was always a perfectionist because I think bodybuilding, like you sit there and call us athletes or whatever you want to call us hobbyists, or I think it's more artists, you know, it's, I don't know if necessarily powerlifting is an art, although the technique I would consider an art form. I think with bodybuilding, like it's, you're a fucking artist, bro.

You're looking at yourself in the mirror and you're saying, okay, how can I create the best body for my genetics? Right. Visually, how can I create? Because that's, it's a visual thing, right? We're judged on visibility and we're judged on how everything puts is put together and flows together. And it's your preference. Like you're built with, you're made with a certain structure.

So you're, you're not going to have that. I didn't have a small waist. I needed to get bigger shoulders. You know, my quads were outrageous, but that's, you know, that's what's just given to me. The calves weren't non-existent. I remember a sister saying to me when I was 20 saying why your calf so small compared to your legs and that fucking killed me you know so did you ever end up with some body image issues like going through this process i mean it sounds like it's uh you know day in and day out um i

guess i'll just use the word ridicule like almost uh ridicule and you being like really paying attention to your triceps and your biceps and your forearms. You ever kind of developed, like if you ever feel you get done with a show and you feel fat and like, I don't know, all these different things might run through your head. I really didn't have any because I felt like I was pretty complete, man. I mean, at 20, I was packed with muscle and everything kind of flowed by that point. Although I did need to improve density. I mentioned density. I i mean that's just years and years of training uh comparable to like when i stood next to coleman i'm like fuck my back needs work you know but he had the best back in the world huge and you know i had great legs from the front but from the back he he demolished me a lot of years and you know it's

like it's a trade-off right if standing there I had better abs and the whole flow looked better. But when he turned around, he just wiped everybody out. That's what helped him win eight titles. And listen, the guy trained like a beast. And I used to watch his, his training stuff and saying, damn, how can he do that? You know, I'm not that strong. I wanted to be that strong. Did that ever influence your training?

It did. Did it ever steer you the wrong way a little bit? It did influence me. Although I, I didn't push past my limitations because everything was repetitions i wasn't one or two rep guy so i was always in a safe zone because i never did a weight that i couldn't do for more than under eight repetitions so for me i was still somewhat smart but i fell into that you know ronnie training like he did and t-bar rowing, you know, nine plates and bent rows with four or five plates.

I mean, that's just insane. And, and squatting 800 pounds. I mean, but I wasn't going to put on a squat suit and, you know, take 20 minutes between each exercise. That wasn't my thing. What you saw in my videos was just everyday shit. You know, that wasn't, nothing was made up. And, uh, I knew eventually he was going to get older and he was going to, uh, start breaking down.

And that's, I think where it actually came into play. How old is Ronnie Coleman? 54. I think he's 10 years older than me. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you were talking about like how genetics didn't play, you know, a part in, you know, majority of your career, but would you say like the mindset and the attitude of like finding pleasure in pain?

Is that something that maybe was genetically passed down to you? Yeah. But I think, um, I mentioned this in a documentary. I said, you got to be a little, uh, little mental, I think, to do what I did. Yeah. I think it's, it's one of those things where I don't want to like sound crazy, but you have to be a little fucked up in order to, it's like a fighter, right. Going in and wanting to just draw blood.

Right. That doesn't make any sense. You know, it's like you want to be bigger, but you've gotten up to 300 pounds and you're virtually all muscle and you're like, my shoulders are small. Like, you know, so you do have to be a little, you do have to be, um, like, uh, I guess, uh, you know, kind of off the charts a little bit. I think, I think sitting in this room, I mean, there's a few people here, but I think I'm talking to you.

So we're just at a different mindset than most people, but like, even like, you know, I have a fiance now. Okay. And she says she knew me when I was big. Like she knew of me. Right. And she's like, I never would have dated you like that. And I met her when I was like 280.

Yeah. So it's not that much different. Right. But they visually see something different when your clothes are off and you're on stage tan and posing. She's like, I said, why not? She's like, because you're just too big and i thought it was okay like now i see it and i was like damn what it you know i was kind of a mess you know a freak yeah i mean well i think

a lot of people say that sometimes um we've had athletes on the show before um that are in tremendous shape someone like brooke wells um, someone like Brooke Entz, uh, some of these CrossFit girls. Um, and, and people have said this a lot about fitness girls and bodybuilding girls. And, and you don't hear it as much about men,

but women will say it about men as well. Women will be like, oh, I would never want to be with someone who's 250 or 260. And then you're like, that's what the rock weighs. And then they're like, oh,

yeah, but he's 65 yeah i know but then they'll be like oh well damn you know and i think it depends on the way someone's built it depends on uh you know how it looks but if you're if somebody's like pumped up if the rock's pumped up and he's in the middle of a training session he's going to look a lot more intimidating veins are going to be popping out it's going to look way different than if you just see a picture of him in gq magazine or something right yeah and i think that's that's kind of the thing too is a lot of people meet me in person and even when i was big you know i didn't

look like i looked imposing trunks on a bodybuilding stage it was more i wasn't covered with veins and off season you put on some water and you put on like a little layer of body fat over you even though i wasn't holding a ton of fat uh Uh, it's not as scary, right? Um, my mom questioned it, you know, she was always like, man, you know, I, is this, you know, is this really what you want to look like? And truthfully, I can, I can tell you, Mark, I said, you know, my goal was to be a certain weight. When I started, I said, I want to be 240 and I would cut it off at 240. But what I realized as I got closer to, you know, competing, the competing side pushed me to be bigger because I got closer and closer to winning the best title in the world. And why I figured why stop now,

if I can become the best in the world, then it's like, okay, I, I reached the pinnacle and not as many guys were able to say that. So why waste the ride that I've been having? And I'm going to go all the way to the top. And that's, that's kind of how I, uh, it kind of was by circumstance, to be honest, because if you go back to my first DVD, which early on was my social media outlets, I released DVDs every year, training videos. I actually said in a cut above which you can find on youtube uh i said you know i'll i never plan on being mr olympia it wasn't my it wasn't an ultimate goal and until i stood next to ronnie coleman in 2001 on a very controversial second is when i first realized that holy shit i can win this thing and that's when uh when i really pursued the mr olympia title

and uh you know the rest from there i mean the fucking mindset of like getting up every day and pushing yourself till i felt like i was gonna have a heart attack and i mean there was times where i almost passed out training because i couldn't breathe and in vegas the heat i remember doing walking lunges outside, you know, training for Olympia in August. And I'm lunging with, you know, 225 on my back in the parking lot. And it's 120 degrees on the, on the pavement. And I remember just like, okay, no one else is doing this.

So I'm going to do it. And that's, was my mindset. I mean, you, you can read the stories. I used to train in the middle of the night cause no one else was doing it. Uh, I've heard Mike Tyson talk about that with his road work. You know, he'd wake up like 3.30 and go run at 4. Yeah, and, you know, that was how I, like, mind-fucked everybody else. You know, I would make sure that I posted up something.

You know, hey, I'm training at this time. So people are like, man, is that the secret? Is that what Jay has to do? Is that what we have to do? And I did it almost to kind of like play mind games with the other guys and say hey you're not doing the work that i'm doing and it made me feel it helped my ego too um you know i think uh you mentioned something that i think have you ever written a book before i have yeah um i got a title for your book because

i think that this is the most important piece of the puzzle that I've heard. So, so far is not the four time Mr. Olympia, but the six times second actually would be a great title for a book because that's, I think that's, I think that's history to six runner ups. Yeah. Well, I think that's a big deal though, because that's a decade. It's a decade of being up there on the stage. And I think that's a big part of it and a persevere and, uh, your four victories, they

weren't in a row either, right? No, I had one break in between the two. That's a big deal too. Like losing and coming back and, you know, coming back and winning again. That's a huge deal. I skipped 2002. I mean, I was building a house in Vegas.

So I actually set out, which is the year Ronnie came in smaller after I had him in the ropes in 2001. If you asked me if it was close to any regret of my career, that would be sitting out that contest, but I just mentally couldn't prepare because of the move to Vegas, building the new house and kind of restructuring my life, moving from California. I just felt it wasn't suitable to go into Olympia preparation. So for me, you know, I do kind of regret that a little bit. Leveroni fell into my second place slot, but I would have came in there and probably, you know, beat up Ronnie pretty heavy. That's the year Gunter Schlierkamp beat him at the show of strength.

And so it showed that Ronnie had some vulnerability. But the problem is, is everyone pissed Ronnie off that year and he came back in 03 and just fucking demolished everybody else, you know, including myself. He started training like a maniac. Well, no, he just came in bigger. You know, he said, I'm not going to shrink down anymore. I'm just going to come in. Like I want to come in, not what the judges want. And that's how I went in every show.

I was bigger, smaller. I didn't give a shit. I just went in there. And like I told you, it was a personal thing for me. It wasn't like, okay, who's going to decide for me to be the best at this. I'm going to show up at the Olympia once. I mean, we talk about weights. I mean, I've competed there 275, 255, 260, 265. And you can ask me what the best weight is. I say around 260, but my whole goal was to be, okay, how do I want to show up this year? You mentioned nutrition being a huge component of it.

Um, I mean, the, the nutrition side of it is the most consistent, constant thing that there is. Cause you got to eat, you know, five to six times a day. In your case, I think you said seven meals every day. What was that like? I mean, that must've been, that must've been terrible. Like for the most part, I mean, you're kind of stuffing in calories that you don't even want, especially in the off season. Right.

I force fed a lot of meals. I mean, obviously I'm hungry for breakfast and I'm hungry. I like before I train or whatever. Like force fed to the point of like gagging. I mean, it took me an hour to eat meals. I mean, you're eating 12 to 16 ounces of meat and, you know, a hundred to 150 grams of carbs every meal. And you're doing that seven times and you do it day in, day out.

Like even when you're dieting for a competition, you're still eating that much food to maintain a massive body. Now that must've took a period of time to build up to, right? Of course it did. And, but I started with a six meal. I mean, when I met Chris Aceto at, at 18, you know, he made me a six meal a day diet. I followed it to the, to the T. So meaning I ate the same foods at the same time every day. I posted on my refrigerator and that's the meal plan that I followed. And eventually the

food went up and up and up as the body weight continued to climb. Obviously the demand for calories changes as your body composition changes, you build more muscle mass. So I was able to start, you know, increase until, you know, we reached past that 240. We went to 260, 280, 300 pounds. Uh, I was able to eat more and more food just to have that maintenance and the round muscle bellies. And the carbohydrates is a huge source of, you know, the fluid in the muscle. You know, you talked about earlier, we were having discussion at lunch about the cushion of the body when you train. And that allowed me to train with heavier weights too, as the carbohydrates. I feel like if it makes any sense, like when you're on like a keto diet and it's just protein,

I don't feel there's a lot of glycogen, even though it will convert. You don't have that cushion. You don't have that, that, um, that retention of the muscle where when you go through weights, almost like you're fucking pumping rocks instead of pumping like balloons. Right. So like the carbon. I think Sam Efferding had a, had a good analogy on the podcast where he said, you know, you can, uh, you know, you can use an elevator to get the empire, to get to the top of the empire state building, or you can use the stairs and, and a keto diet in terms of maximum performance, especially when it comes to like in the gym and trying to maximize muscle growth would probably fall into that slot where it might, it might be decent at burning fat.

And for me, what I always try to share with everybody is I utilize it because, uh, it gives me the best self-control. If you give me carbohydrates, I'm going to probably end up eating ice cream and everything else and eat shitty carbohydrates. So for me, the keto diet allows me to manage my calories better, which is all it really broke down to for me. Yeah. I never tried the keto thing. It wasn't my thing. I was always a carb eater. You didn't reduce carbs even going into a show or anything? Not so much.

I mean, of course, you know, at certain times I had to be restrictive because I needed to lean down. But it seemed like towards the end, which is the times I remember the most, because, you know, those were the exciting points of the diet. You know, it was never the 16 weeks out of the 12 weeks that were exciting. Cause I'm like, okay, let's get this shit over with. Right. No one wants to die. There's no fun portion of getting ready for a body blend show. Uh, so I was like, okay, the last four weeks, it was like, okay, I'm carving consistently in order to continue to, to improve my body and get fullness back so i can compete and beat these guys because i used to out muscle people i wasn't a balanced like guy i wasn't like small waist and aesthetics like that's all that was bullshit to

my to my winnings you know my winnings was going up there and hitting most musclers and just blasting people off the stage that's what i look forward to like i wanted to out muscle the hell out of everybody uh and that's what i did and that's how my victories came and i was known as a so-called mass monster uh and that's what you know what i thought bodybuilding was i mean i don't i don't see any crazy mass monsters i mean phil he's got a lot of mass for his frame but like a big rami is considered like a mass monster now, or, or, uh, you know, Roley Winker, whatever these guys, where they just blast people with muscle. Um, I wasn't into those aesthetic slow posing routines. I thought that was just not something I was interested in. I went out there and I just, you know, got the crowd, stuck the tongue out and did what I did, you know, to get the crowd riled up. That's

entertainment for me because bodybuilding is so boring, you know? Yeah. It can be. I mean, it is. I mean, it's not even can, it's, it is. Yeah. You know, when you're not knocking somebody out or, or, you know, hitting home runs or, or beating someone with touchdowns.

I mean, to me, it's like, you got to have some excitement. So the guys with muscle, the things that's going to, uh, get the crowd kind of fired up and then it's the smallest. That's what Vince McMahon was trying to do. Of course. That was before your time probably, right? No, it was just when I was coming in. Yeah.

1999. I started training in 91, but I mean, I looked at those guys. Gary Stridham was in that. A lot of guys, you know, transpired over that. I think Frigno was actually in it for a minute. Those guys were paid a lot of money and they tried to do it, but I think it was a little corny too. Yeah.

With the dress ups and shit. I mean, but the characters were kind of cool. Right. Yeah. I mean, you're going to have to try to add an entertainment value to anything that you have, whether it's bodybuilding or powerlifting, how the hell it's going to get people to watch it. Nowadays, I think social media has helped in some ways.

You have like men's physique and I think they got rid of women's bodybuilding, right? Yeah, they did. It's gone. And they have some other avenues for the chicks to get involved in. But when you first started, they didn't have a lot of that stuff and have any of it, right? No, it was strictly men's and women's bodybuilding. But, you know, touch on the social media thing. That's why the social media people without accolades of like titles or achievements, like they have more followers because they do shit.

That's exciting. I mean, a bodybuilder, what's a bodybuilder do besides eat chicken breasts and go to the gym and pump up chest? There's no real like personalities. And I was victim of that too. I mean, I didn't like cameras in my face. I was very serious about what I did. I had to learn to come out of my shell some. And now on social media, I have to be more of a normal person, but I'm allowed to do that because

I'm not, I'm not driven towards that one goal. I mean, I thrive in business, but some of this stuff is not related to, you know, what's fascinating though, is somebody that has the drive and the determination to be a four-time Mr. Olympia. So it's not like you have to jump over a car or anything like that. You know what I mean? It's, it's still Olympia. So it's not like you have to jump over a car or anything like that. You know what I mean? It's, it's still intriguing enough. And that's why so many people want to have you do seminars and have you, uh, at these speaking engagements all the time. Yeah. I think they look at the mindset. I mean, I think that's really what, what drives you to be able to do what you do at the highest level. I mean,

it intrigues people because how many people can say they were the best in the world at what they did. It's still like, when I say it to you, I don't look at myself like that. Like, I don't look at like, Hey, I accomplished like being the best bodybuilder in the world four times. Like I have to constantly be reminded of it because I'm still in mindset. Like I'm the kid in Massachusetts with a dream and wanting to move to California and riding a cop as a motorcycle as a cop, you know, like watching chips and all those things. So, so I tell people that dream harder than you work. Like you have to really work hard, right? You have to put in a lot of work.

Everybody already knows that, but you got to hold on to your dream because you gotta, you gotta have a, like a belief in yourself. You gotta not let go of that. Not let anything deter you from that. Yeah. And I mean, we have obstacles. I mean, there's a lot of things that are thrown at you and people can make excuses or they can say, screw it, move forward. And I think, you know, we talk about the injuries. I mean, we've all had it. Uh, some people quit because of that, or they just stop and then they fall out of it. But listen, man, if it's your passion,

you're going to continue to do it. Right. And I tell everyone don't do something because you look at it as like, oh, it's just optional. You've got to do what's your passion. Otherwise, you're never going to succeed at it. You're never going to stay with it. You're never going to commit to it. And you're never going to give your full ability towards that goal. And I think we all have some sort of passion for whatever it is. If you like to paint or if you like cars, work, if you like cars, like work on cars or,

you know, I, it just happened to me, me, I like to weightlift and, you know, I didn't sit there and say, oh, I want to be Mr. Olympia. Like it was a goal later, but I wanted to have a great body. You know, I, I didn't say, oh, I'm going to go win this or win that because I didn't even know what the hell it was half of this stuff. But you know, how much, you know, it's like you, you set a goal. I want to bench press this, or I want to squat this. I don't, you know, whatever your best lift is. You are a bench presser, right? Yeah.

Predominantly. Yeah. So bench press in power lifting, uh, in a bench shirt, I benched 854 and without a bench shirt, I benched 578. Okay. So, but what about the squat? Like squat, I did a thousand 80 and without any, uh, without a squat suit, I did 700. What was your, what, what do you consider though your best lift?

Uh, I think everybody knows me for bench press. Okay. So obviously you, you put your focus towards that probably more than you did the squats or the deadlift, right? Because why? Because you were great at it, right? Yeah. It's a strength.

Yeah. So your mindset is like, okay, this is what I'm good at. I'm going to shoot for this. And that's, that's going to be your goal. And the confidence that I had on that exercise was just different than everything else. I always kind of struggled with the deadlift. And so it's hard to get that out of your mind, even as much as you're trying to coach yourself out of it, even as much as you're trying to give yourself a positive self-talk, uh, you

don't have that same reinforcement of like blasting it up every time. I could be sick. I could be injured. I could have just about anything going on and I could always figure out a way to bench press. I mean, it's like LeBron James. He was a great football player too, but he chose

basketball instead because that was probably what he felt he was better at. Right. But he had the option. A lot of these football players or basketball players, they were great at either one. I mean, look, you see these guys, I mean, Jordan played baseball, all these people,

but they just choose what they think they'll, they'll dominate. And they probably had a passion for the other things too, but you just, you chase whatever your passion or whatever you believe that your, your best of your abilities can go after. And that's bodybuilding was it for me. You have to have longevity in order to be good And that's bodybuilding was it for me. You have to have longevity in order to be good at anything. You know, it took you, how long did it take you to get on an Olympia stage?

I was 25 at my first. So, I mean, from 18 to 25. Yeah. It takes almost 10 years to get anywhere. Right. And then it took you about another 10 to win. Yeah. It took, uh, 33 was my first win. I mean, I was great at 20. Don't get me wrong. I was professional. I turned professional at 23.

And, uh, you know, with a couple of years, but I was second to last at that first Olympia. So does it really count? Right. And even, and even for you, um, you seem to be a, you seem to be a quick study, you know, like you're like, most people won't have that same, that same amount of, uh, success that fast, probably. Um, you mentioned, you know, along with, uh, along with the food, um, I think you told me that you had, you know, 800 to a thousand grams of carbs, uh, sometimes even like going into a show. Yeah. That's crazy, right?

That's insane. And now, now do you think that that was something that just worked well for you? Or, uh, do you think that, uh, that people are similar and they can eat their way into something like that or train their way into something like that? I see guys smaller than me that can do the same at this point. You know, that really comes down to body, what their body does to simulate those carbs or how hard they train that what their output is i'm a firm believer in like letting your body do the work and feed it what it needs so if you want to train and you want to do a ton of cardio um you want to have volume sets you know that's you're going to have to feed the body to adapt to that if you want to have volume sets, you know, that's, you're going to have to feed the body to adapt to that.

If you want to train less and do heavier weights, lower repetitions, longer rest between sets, you know, maybe that you don't need as much calories. It really depends on your output. And I was very active. I would do a lot of things. You know, I was running a lot of business and I was traveling a lot, even, you know, when I was training at the highest level. So I was never a guy to sit on the couch and play video games or sit and watch movies all day. I was always moving around. So maybe that had something to do with it. And you know,

the carbohydrate, like I said, I was a lean guy from day one and I was husky. You mentioned if you mentioned, if you weren't doing anything, you were sleeping. Yeah, I was sleeping or prepping, you know. Did you recognize that sleep was a big part of it? Oh, it was huge, you know. Did you get naps and stuff? Six hours. I tried to sleep in one stint, but yeah, I took naps.

I mean, of course, eating that much carbs, you can imagine your crash, right? So after training, I always tend to sleep. And I remember I was paid to do it, so it was a little easier. But I did have no issue sleeping whatsoever. I always tend to sleep and I remember I was paid to do it. So it was a little easier, but, uh, I, I did have no issue sleeping whatsoever. You know, a lot of people have these things where they, they can't sleep or they have to take sleep aids. That wasn't me. I can fall asleep anywhere. When you become a professional bodybuilder, before you work your way to the top, is it enough money to where you don't need a lot of other outside money? Or you're mentioning having other

businesses, you must've needed some other resources other resources you know what's funny for me is like we talk about the upbringing and being in the family business i was taught the value of a dollar early on so for me it wasn't about like okay i knew i needed like i was taught okay make enough money to survive right pay your bills and and you know save money but you know don't be a pig right so what i did is you know, save money, but you know, don't be a pig. Right. So what I did is, you know, I learned along the way, like, Hey, I want to, my whole goal wasn't to win the Olympia. It was actually to be financially stable. So I knew I was conservative and I learned, okay, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to find ways that I can be a great business guy. And I created the branding. I created the, you know, the merchandise and, you know, along the way

I listened to the right people. I had business advisors and people that taught me, okay, I invested in real estate, like in the beginning, that was kind of my first venture. That's why I moved to Las Vegas after building in California. I actually bought a house six months after moving to Orange County and I made a bunch of money on that. And then of course the 9-11 tragedy happened and I went to Vegas on just a whim to visit a friend and I saw the real estate market. Everything was discounted. Everyone was scared to spend money because they thought that the world was coming to an end. And, uh, I scooped up a bunch of stuff and that's really when I started falling and making really serious money in

bodybuilding. I won six shows in 2003 and with every win, I bought a house. So I had like six or seven homes in 2003. There's money, there's actual money that you win from the show. Uh, but then you probably also win money from endorsements and, and along with the endorsements, you probably get more endorsement. Of course, you know, and there's a lot of revenue once you're good at it. Right. And people always ask me, how do I get sponsored? I said, you got to win something. You got to be good, right? You got to be something that someone isn't. And nowadays, you know, with the internet, there's just a lot of, you know, Instagram, there's a lot of people that can

showcase a lot of great talents or it's perception, right? Maybe they're not as good. Um, everyone lives the most grandma's life on Instagram. Right. But I lived that life. You know, I was actually, you know, the cars I drove and the houses I lived in and the places I went and traveled and whatever, that was all real shit. So, but that wasn't only from bodybuilding. It was investments that I did and getting into different ventures and that's building the relationships and being a standup person that I was able to, you know, put myself in touch with the right people and have the right business advisors. But I, I truly believe it goes back again to how I was, I was brought up and I was taught values and, you know, trying, you know, showing people respect.

But, you know, in the beginning it was like, I never imagined I'd make money like I did. And then of course you're winning, you know, a hundred thousand at a time or 150,000 at a time, you're winning cars and everything else. And then the endorsements just start rolling in one after another. I mean, it becomes a really solid life. I mean, I was one of the fortunate ones to be able to do it at the highest level for a long time, still doing it nowadays. And, you know, I carry what I didn't expect the whole brand now, you know, the, the Jay Cutler, Cutler brand is really big. Um, I'm still probably worldwide because bodybuilding is popular all over the world. Yeah.

And it's, it's really cool to be able to see that in different cultures and, you know, to understand when you go over there. And I didn't travel a lot when I was actually competing because I was so booked in the United States every weekend, a weekend at stores and, uh, guest appearances, charity events. I didn't actually, there wasn't an expose at that point. Like the expos have become more apparent the last five years, but I was able to, uh, you know, create, you know, that revenue from that. But also I was able to touch base with many more people.

And then once I started traveling overseas, it was like, wow, this is like a culture shock that bodybuilding is that big over there. You know, I would show up at places. I remember being in India and 3000 people are in the common to come. I'm like, why are these people here? They said they're here to see you. And I was like, damn, like you don't expect that shit. You know, you travel all the way who would have thought, you know, growing up where I grew up, 6,000 people in my town, I'd be somewhere in India and being like a household name there and, and, uh, being in front of a million fans, like literally. And, uh, it's just, it's kind of mind blowing, you know, and I still do it. And being who I am

now, it's like, you know, I still show up at these events. I mean, my line was four hours in Houston this past week. You can see me. Can you imagine waiting four hours to meet anyone in line? It's pretty wild. I mean, I don't know if I would do that. And I tell these people that, so I try to give people a lot of time and I try to. You got to think about it this way too. Like perspective is always key in my opinion. And, um, it sounded like you, you weren't a fan of what your dad made you do when you were young. Cause he didn't understand it maybe as much as you do now, but a lot of people don't even have that.

They don't even have like your dad made you do that. Cause he fucking cared, you know? And a lot of, a lot of people just don't even have, they don't have a mom. They don't even have like your dad made you do that because he fucking cared you know and a lot of a lot of people just don't even have they don't have a mom they don't have a dad they have alcoholic parents or they've been abused and they're waiting in line to see jay cutler because you pulled them through something you mean a lot to that person that they don't give a fuck about how long it takes dude and you know and people are in tears and shit you know it's wild isn't it and you know it changes your life like you realize your worth after you become who I become and you say, okay, what's next

for me? Right. There's always that question when you retire, like, fuck, what am I going to do? You know, how am I going to keep myself occupied? And what I've learned is like, I need to give back to what created this opportunity for me. Cause there's, there's one person out there. Listen, there's, there's 13 Mr.

Olympias, but there's going to be 13 more, probably more in my lifetime. Right. Right. So it's like, cause I don't think it's going to be like after this run, Phil has this run. I can't see a guy winning time and time and time. I say that, but I mean, I didn't expect Phil to do it either, but like, man, like it's just, you change people's lives. Like that's not, when you start off training, like you think, okay, I want to win titles

and you know, and then eventually it turns endorsements and you talk, you talk about the prize money and shit like that. But like, you can't imagine like when you're 18 and you're looking at these guys in the magazine and you're thinking, I'm not thinking other than, Hey, I want to be that guy. I don't start thinking, Oh, I want to be this person. Cause I want to be a role model to like millions of millions of people. Yeah. You're not thinking I want to be like Sylvester Stallone was to you. You're not thinking that way at all. Yeah. Like you don't think that because you're just a nobody, right? Right. I mean, let's be real. And then all of a sudden, like the tables are turned here,

you are after achieving all the success. And like these kids are coming in and like you're my inspiration you're my idol you're this you're that and then you got 50 and they really mean it you got 50 year old men that said i followed you for 20 years you know they said i i remember the magazine where you were sitting there your first picture in the magazine and i'm like holy shit this guy is right because i know when my first picture was and uh you know then you helped me you saved my life or i lost a hunt i heard that all weekend i lost 100 pounds 150 pounds you saved my life like this and that and they're bringing their wives or their girlfriends who could give a shit who's like about yeah they're always kind of sitting there frowny faced well no they were like you dude you're like this guy

is you're all he talks about a lot of you have the guy himself can't even say anything. Yeah. And I said, and I just say, I said, how excited was you to come here? And the wife or the girlfriend's like, oh my God, like he's talked about it for four months since he saw it advertised. I mean, that, that just, that just made everything for me. And it makes the 14 hour or whatever flight that you had to get on and the two hour drive and the X, Y, and Z that you had to figure out how the fuck to get there. It's just crazy, man. And like the opportunities just keep pouring at me.

And like, you realize like your worth is a lot more than you ever expected. Like, you know, you start thinking, you know, I mean, when you turn over 40, you're like shit, your life's over when you were like 25 thinking about shit, what am I going to be at 40? Like you look at 40 year olds and you think, oh, that's so old. But once you get there, you're like, this ain't so bad, you know? Right. Yeah.

Who knows? Yeah. Who knows? I mean, you, you could live a, an entire, another half of your life. That's just as busy, just as occupied. I mean, you don't, you don't really know. Um, what, how did you avoid getting pulled in the wrong direction? Because you mentioned some of these sponsors coming in.

Um, there's a lot of people that are full of shit, you know, especially like in, uh. Everyone's full of shit. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody, everybody's full of shit, including you Smokey. Everybody's full of shit. So how did you avoid, um, and it's probably happened to you probably have been pulled in the wrong direction.

Probably do have a bad story or two because it's bound to happen. All of us get so many people pulling on you after these Olympia victories, I would imagine. Yeah. Listen, the deals come out, you got to weigh them all out. There's been some successes. There's been failures. You know, listen, I've done, you know, I mean, you can talk about real estate deals where I made a ton of money and sell the monies I lost. I lost certain deals, but, uh, you have

to kind of weigh it all out. That's all. I mean, fortunately for me, like, you know, people may or not, may not believe this, but a lot of the stuff I get involved with endorsing, especially it was stuff that I used or I believed in, um, it goes way back. People are always like, you're full of shit.

No. And, and you know what? I I've been under contract with some of the best supplement companies i was a muscle tech for eight years and people can talk shit about that company but i used all the products and they were awesome like they treated me unbelievably and you know i was with iss which is the oh yeah company i learned a lot being with them three years i was with joe weeder who without joe weeder i wouldn't be who i am i endorsed his products and you, we used to get truckloads. I mean, my house was like fucking GNC, you know?

And then, uh, you know, I finished up lastly with BPI sports who were my partner for Cutler Nutrition. And now I own a hundred percent of my brand. So I'm solely on my own now, which just happened in the last month. And it's given me a great opportunity now to, uh, you know, really kind of rebrand and re reformulate. And I'm going to launch a bunch of new products. And, uh, you know, I'm just, I'm pursuing what I believe is like what I want to do.

And I've had a lot of, you know, deals that on the table didn't look so good. And then they kind of revisited and they fell on my lap again. And I had, you know, success with that, but everything is an opportunity, whether it's a winner or a loser. I mean, you build relationships, some things don't work out. Listen, not everyone's going to be successful at what they do. Um, you know, you can look at me and saying, well, if I lost the Olympia, I finished second to last at the first one.

Why the hell did I go back to do it again? I mean, you got to go through learning curves and, and, you know, failures are sometimes setting you up for the biggest advantages in life. And that goes back to the second place finishes at the Mr. Olympia. I mean, shit, if I didn't have those, I might not have worked so hard to get the first. Yeah. Um, we mentioned, uh, some of the training, but you mentioned to me at lunch that you, uh, worked out four times a day. Um, I would imagine that's kind of like coming down the training, but you mentioned to me at lunch that you worked out four times a day. Um, I would imagine that's kind of like coming down the stretches. Like, is that for a month? Is that for eight weeks? How long did you work? That was 16, like 16 weeks training for a competition. I mean, that's a long, that's a long time. 16 weeks, Andrew, training four times a day.

Dude, no way. Two cardio sessions, two weight sessions. What a, what a fucking boring life, huh? It worked out. Well, it worked out because I was winning most of those things. I mean, very rarely did I lose. Do you have to be boring to be a bodybuilder in some way? You know what, man? I think you've got to have a very simple mindset. You can't be social.

You can't be out doing a lot of other activities. Some people argue this. Some people will be listening to this or watching this live and think, you know, I go out and do, you know, what, do things with my family and stuff. Yeah. I mean, listen, it depends on your mindset. My mindset is, you know, as Mr. Olympia was like, when I trained for competitions, man, there was no world.

I shut everything out. So you put on the blinders and you have tunnel vision on what that ultimate goal is. And I didn't, I didn't want to go back after 16 and like 16 weeks and win or lose the title and say, I should have done or could have done this. That's why I did it the way I did for that 16. But once the 16 weeks was over, man, I lived my life. I mean, listen, man, I partied, I went out, I did, you know, I had, you know, after I was married, I had girlfriends and, you know, I hung out with friends. I became more social.

Uh, I traveled all around the world and, you know, I've been some of the best places. I live in Vegas, man. I mean. Was it ever hard to get back to it? Uh, when you did that, you know, when you kind of let. The only time it was hard is when I, you know, I got divorced in 2011 and I tore my bicep that year and, you know, my dog died and, you know, whatever it just, you know, it was the shit year. Yeah, it was terrible. But, you know, and then I planned to come back in 12, but I had a bicep surgery. So it kind of sidelined me. It took a year for recovery for that. And then I came back in 13 and I, I kind of got my ass handed to me. I was, you know, sixth, which was the worst placing in over 12 years. which was the worst placing in over 12 years. And I realized, holy shit, I thought I was at that level again, but I, I really wasn't fully back because I just, I was traveling a lot. I was, you know, I had a big tour bus. We were running with the supplement brand and I was traveling

all around on a tour bus. And, you know, I thought I was getting enough meals and I wasn't as dedicated. And that was probably, you know, the biggest eye-opener for me. And listen, I partied in between that loss and 11 and, you know, after getting divorced and all that stuff, it was probably, you know, the biggest eye-opener for me. And listen, I partied in between that loss and 11 and, you know, after getting divorced and all that stuff, it was like, you know, you go through that phase. Right. And then I had to like, get back down to business and I just wasn't the same person, man. I didn't have, you know, my ex-wife was a huge backbone for me. And, uh, you know, when she wasn't there day to day to day it kind of affected me you know so when you you know i think you mentioned at lunch you were with her for like 20 years yeah 23 years man so it was like you had that structure and you know i really didn't know sometimes like i thought

i was doing the right thing but it just it's a comfortability thing like when you're training for a show everything has to be in sequence and And I think now looking back, I just was missing some of those, those moving parts. That's all. How do you deal with comments? You know, like, uh, you're retired from, uh, getting on the stage and, uh, I think you're, uh, what'd you say? You're two 35 right now. Obviously you're, you're, you don't look, uh, nearly as big as, as he used to. Right. So how do you deal with, uh, does that ever bother you? Does it ever bother you? Somebody like, Oh, you look smaller.'t look uh nearly as big as as you used to right so how do you deal with uh does that ever bother you they ever bother you somebody like oh you look smaller you look nothing like you used to look or nah man i got four i got four sandals on a on some pedestals at home and a lot of metals to prove it you know so for me even if you get out of shape someone's like oh you look

fat doesn't any of it bug you i haven't been out of fat i haven't been out of shape much so for me it's like just you know smaller yes i'm trying to downsize and that's my goal i mean remember it's it's me on me that's not i'm not trying to impress anyone i still want to be fit i still i want to look athletic like in an athletic i'll tell you right now it can happen a lot athletic is a lot of opinions for a lot of people, right? But you look like SpongeBob SquarePants. That's the physique. Yeah. One of the,

one of the questions that came in was actually like, what's your diet looking like these days that you are trying to slim down a little bit or size down, I should say. I mean, I have, you know, I don't meal service,

a mega fit meal. So I do that a lot of that, but it's still the chicken and rice. I still eat the same breakfast, the egg whites and the oatmeal for breakfast, a couple of eggs. Uh, today was, I was a little steak for lunch, which I don't usually eat a lot of steak, to be honest, I've kind of cut red meat out of my diet,

uh, most of the time, but I eat a lot less. I eat half as much as I used to. So I eat about six ounces of meat and probably like, uh, 40 grams of carbs per meal. That probably feels a lot better, right? Well, I'm listening. I didn't feel too bad at 300 pounds, to be honest. I mean, I was pretty agile and I trained and I mean, obviously visually it's much different

and the clothing fits a lot different, you know, and the styles have changed since then. I used to wear big baggy clothes, five X shirts and shit. You know, it's just like, that's much more comfortable and I'm not as hot all the time. That's for sure. You know, when you're big and heavy, like body temperatures. Yeah. You're, you're red as shit. Everyone thinks you have high blood pressure, you know, and I never had high blood pressure,

but I sure looked like I did, you know, that's for sure. Was there a, during your, uh, competitive years, were there things that you had to avoid? Like somebody might be, Hey, let's go, uh, skiing or let's go do this. Well, the funny thing is, is I, I signed an agreement with muscle tech, you know, back in oh three and I was on a contract until, uh, 2012. And, uh, I had like no extreme sports in that contract. So I had ATVs I bought in 2005 and I, I was like, I'd grew up on the farm, riding ATVs.

That's what I love to do. No suckers sat in my garage. Shit. I've probably ridden them probably three hours since I bought them, I'd grew up on the farm riding ATVs. That's what I love to do. Those suckers sat in my garage. Shit. I probably ridden them probably three hours since I bought them. And I take them up and down the street every once in a while. I put on my social media, but that's about the extent that I go. I should start riding more, but you know, I just, a lot of things I couldn't do. Downhill skiing.

I used to do a lot. I used to water ski. Uh, I mean, I'm not going to jump out of airplanes at this point or anything like that man i'm trying to do anything to salvage my life you know what i mean i worked my ass off to get where i am at so you know i used to ride motorcycles all the time but for me like it's just so damn dangerous now but like the texting and shit like i'm afraid to ride a motorcycle like i rode when no one was texting and everyone if you pull up to anyone next to a stoplight everyone's texting right it's fucking terrifying yeah smokey's on a motorcycle he might get oh yeah watch out what do you ride a sport bike or a little bobber okay that's all right that's good

yeah i had harley's i had you know i had gsxrs i just sold a ducati actually had a ducati but it was more just a showpiece in my garage. Someone actually needed the money. So I actually bought it from them and I thought I was actually going to ride. I took it to the gym once and it was like summertime in Vegas. And the shit was so hot, bro. I can't, I can't ride this thing on daily. You know, you have to wear a helmet in Vegas.

You know, I wanted to ride with no helmet on, but I was like kamikaze like that. I didn't give a shit. You know, it was the coolest thing that ever happened to you in bodybuilding, whether it be something that you won or something that happened, you know, due to circumstances of you, uh, bodybuilding competing. Ah, man, like, you know, I told, I told you guys at lunch, that story, like Stallone, you know, he was my idol and, you know you know to meet him I met him and Van Damme John Claude Van Damme you know watching Bloodsport all those years and those two guys were like the

reason I got in and I was able to meet those guys and they both said the same exact thing to me they told me they were fans so for me that's like mind-blown like crazy because like those are your two idols and you know I met Arnold and I mean he was like obviously won the Arnold Classic a bunch of times and you know talking to him is pretty i mean he was like obviously won the arnold classic a bunch of times and you know talking to him is pretty wild considering i was watching him and commando and all that shit and uh you know i visited some of the craziest places i mean i've been in peru and you know to visit these orphanages with kids and be able to bring them gifts and all that i mean it's bodybuilding has taken me all around the world and i never would have been able to probably

do that nor wanted to if it wasn't for bodybuilding, because I surely when I retire, I'm not going to travel much because I've, I've flown millions of airplane miles. I mean, I, by the beginning of, from January this year until March, I already flown a hundred thousand miles. Holy shit. So I'm still, I'm still traveling a tremendous amount and I'm so sick of fucking planes. You can imagine like, you know what I mean? And I'm just sick of rude people and, and just, just the airports and the delays. And like, that's what ruins it for me. Like if you said, Jay, if you could go anywhere in the world, if I could just like, like zoom

myself there and get there and like light speed, I would go anywhere on the planet. But you're talking about teleportation. Yeah. The travel time. It's like, it's unreal, man. Like I can't take the flights anymore. It just kills me because if you think about it, that's the worst waste of your life you

could ever do is sitting on an airplane, you know? It's a killer. And even just to get on the plane and just the whole act, the whole thing is a big pain. And it's like, you can only watch so many movies over and over. I mean, I like to watch Narcos. Like, that's one of my favorite shows. And I'm watching Billions right now.

That's like the show I like to watch. So those are two. You got to get into Cobra Kai. What's this? Cobra Kai. I've heard of it. It's on YouTube. Oh, yeah?

We haven't really talked about it much on the podcast. It's fucking fantastic. Yeah. It's, it's weird how Danny LaRusso is kind of like a Danny little bitch though. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

You know, he might be, might be turning into, well, he was in the karate kid. He was kind of like a little pansy. Wasn't he? Yeah.

But in this one, you're kind of almost rooting it. Like you're rooting for like the bad guy. It seems like,'re kind of almost rooting for the bad guy, it seems like. Well, I was rooting for the bad guys even in the original. Oh, dude, and this one's right up your alley. This one, it's dope. It's really good. It actually is really good.

Like the first, you know, it has definitely like a cheeseball factor to it, but it actually, in my opinion, actually turns really good. Yeah, well, I mean, it follows the bad uh whose name i can't even think of right now uh for like the first 15 minutes of the first episode johnny yeah johnny the kid with the blonde hair played him in the original yeah it's the same guy no it isn't is it really yeah oh yeah same guy i'm gonna pull up it's all the same people it's fantastic you gotta see it so how how far along is this series uh just episode, just one year, right? Yeah, so it's done through season one, but they got green-lighted for season two. Woo-hoo! Okay.

So it's free on YouTube? YouTube Red. It's on YouTube Red. So you have to buy YouTube Red. There's a slight paywall. What's it, $12, $15? I think it's like $10 a month. Yeah, you don't get any commercials and all that shit.

YouTube's trying to do a bunch of shit. I saw them advertising YouTube TV and stuff. I don't know what's going on. So you're plugging this thing then. That means it's really fucking good. This is a paid advertisement right here. Okay. $250K they gave us.

Eating fried bologna. Times have been tough on Johnny. So this is like him at 40? Oh, he's... Right, yeah. That's him for real? Yeah, that's him. Look what he's watching.

Dude, you're missing out on a lot of good stuff. Dude, I'm gonna have to go... And you thought you had nothing left to watch on planes. Shit, I'm gonna go home and watch this shit tonight. It's so good. It is really good. And if you hate it, you know, you can blame Andrew. Yeah, that's fine.

Andrew, what kind of questions you got building up over there, buddy? I got one that I just stumbled upon. I wanted to get your guys' opinion on it. Miss America eliminates swimsuit competition in the judging. And they say that there won't, let's see, what is it? They will no longer judge contestants on their physical appearance. Oh my, oh my God. Yeah.

So I don't know. Where are they going to be judged on? That's what I'm wondering. I have no idea. You know what I, so you're asking my opinion on this? Yeah. Listen, I love a chick in a swimsuit, but not to skinny girls. I'm not into skinny chicks.

Like I like Latinas. You like chicks that lift or it doesn't really matter? No, I don't like a chick. I don't like a chick that has to eat every two hours. You know, it's too much effort. Their watch goes off the same time as yours does. Now with this Apple watch shit, you know, it's like too much. But no, I was never into fitness, like fitness bodies.

I mean, they look good, but it wasn't something that I wanted to marry. That's for sure. Maybe someone who's just health conscious, but not training their face off. Right. I think, you know, listen, I think of bikini girl, you know, especially with the cuts the bikinis have nowadays. I mean, like, it's good to look at those girls in bikinis. What about the CrossFit chicks?

They got kind of the thicker legs and some power lifting girls. I like a little thick chick, you know, I like them thick bodies. A little bit round? Round and big? Yeah, I mean, not to be, like, too in detail, but, you know. Yeah, we can be gross. I like a little thickness. I'm not, like, a skinny type girl thing.

I like a little meat there, which has kind of changed. I mean, in the beginning, I liked skinnier girls. Yeah, your opinions change over the years, right? Your, uh... Your taste changed? Your taste buds. Yeah, taste buds. There you go, yeah. yeah your opinions change over the years right your your uh your taste changed your taste your taste buds taste buds there you go yeah um what were the uh the purses like when you were competing versus now like is there like such a it changed a lot yeah really uh the miss olympia i

mean i won uh 200 at my best and it's 400 so yes yes, that's changed. But to be honest, like the smaller shows still pay the same money, like 10, 15 grand each show. So if you win a few, I mean, you pick up some money, but you know, it's, it's pretty costly to, to train for these things. I mean, your food bill alone. I mean, I can tell you, I probably spent on some years, a hundred grand, but that includes eating out and stuff too, just on food. So, you know, you have to have a revenue stream in order to do it at the level that we do it at, where it's attainable. Is bodybuilding, in your opinion, in jeopardy in some way? Like if, I don't even know how it works anymore, but like when you become a pro, who's paying?

It doesn't do the pro card doesn't guarantee a salary i mean it's not a union base did it used to no and it was all just it was mainly joe weeder yeah he was like the he was like he gifted everyone you know what i mean like he and uh the guy at gold's gym ed connor's he brought me he he's the one that brought me back to after i when i went out there i mentioned at 19 i won he, he's the one that brought me back to, after I, when I went out there, I mentioned at 19, I won that, that. He had a house that, uh, John Cena has lived at. I stayed there, yeah. Jay Cutler.

I mean, the list of people. He introduced me to Cena cause Cena worked the front desk at Gold's then. And he was like. Dun, dun, dun. But Cena was like, great, man. He was awesome when I met him. Cause we were from Massachusetts and he had an

awesome, he was natural guy and he was like crazy. Like the physique on him. He was fucking big. Yeah. Like big arms. And he still is when I met him. Cause we were from Massachusetts and he had an awesome, he was natural guy and he was like crazy. Like the physique on him. He was fucking big. Yeah. Like big arms. And he still is big. And he used to ride his motorcycle around and stuff. So it was really cool.

Like that he made it like to the big time. And. His story is like very similar to yours. Yeah. Although he, I think he won five Mr. Olympias. Yeah. Not four. And he lost five times.

I think he got on a little higher platform than me, but it's just funny how these guys like are so. Dude, you could take him out. So quiet. And then like, it's just like that personality comes out and he's like a, a showman, you know what I mean? And I got to see, I got to see him. Like he came to Vegas like a few years ago and I actually went to the,

I went backstage and caught up to him. We sat on the bus and had a beer and stuff. It was pretty cool to see him, you know. He's a fucking stud. He's a workhorse. Yeah. He's a goddamn, he's a goddamn workhorse. How close were you to Rich Piana?

You know what? We were friends. We were, we were friends. I knew Rich before he was like really famous. He was doing a lot of commercials and, you know, it's unfortunate for him because he had such a huge like presence in, in bodybuilding and he was a really positive influence, even though his, his, like his visually, he was like kind of scary to a lot of people, um, with all the tats and like the whole 5% thing.

Uh, but he like really put himself at another level than everyone else. And what he spoke about was just raw and real. And, you know, it was just unfortunate when he passed away. Cause like we spent a lot of time at expos, I would see him around and I knew a lot of people that were friendly with him. And,

you know, he was always polite to me and like, we'd always converse and we saw each other. We spent time, we trained together and ate together. Um, but we were best friends, but he was one of the people that definitely for me was a, was kind of a, he was kind of a person of interest of the fitness community.

You know, people really respected him and what, what he brought to the table. Yeah. You mentioned Craig Titus earlier. A lot of the people that watch this show probably don't have any clue on who that is. Did you know Craig Titus? I knew him well. And then he, did he kill his girlfriend or something? I can't even remember what happened.

He killed the assistant and burned her in the car, if you remember. And then did he kill himself or something? No, he's in jail. Oh, he's in jail. The wife got out, you know, ex-wife now, but she went to jail too. They both were conspired supposedly to kill. It's a wild story. And they burned it in the body.

There was a movie about it and all that. But, uh, he was in Vegas. He lived there. I used to see him at the gym. I helped him train for a couple of shows actually. Um, probably some of the better looks he ever, uh, produced on the stage. And he was a hustler, man. He always like, um, he always was grinding and, you know, he did very well for, he wasn't a huge, huge success on the stage, but offstage he made a lot of money doing appearances and

marketing. Yeah, he was really popular. Yeah. And he was a good looking dude and he was, had a lot of magazine covers, but his just lifestyle was so crazy and wild, like chicks and drugs and partying. And like, he was kind of like the bad boy of bodybuilding, but it kind of caught up to him, I think, you know, and I know he wasn't in any normal state of mind when that happened. Let's put it that way.

Right. Um, who are some of your favorite bodybuilders? I guess let's start out with a kind of old school. Well, who are some of your favorites from the past? And then also who are some of your favorites that are more current i mean samir banute was awesome i mean obviously like chris dickerson i mentioned bob paris uh lee haney dorian yates uh um you know arnold of course is up there he was sergio oliva was way ahead of his time yeah i mean robbie robinson those guys were like back in that day were just crazy.

Lou Frigno was just. Robbie Robinson is still jacked. Dude, he's 72 or something and he's still guest posing and shit. It's crazy. And then when he talks, like he very rarely talks, but if he does talk, he sounds like fucking Darth Vader.

Yeah. That's kind of scary. But he's still ripped. I don't know if you saw, he guest posed at the Emerald Cup this year at 72 and he's still like crazy for that age uh but you know lee haney dorian yates those were kind of like my idols uh i liked lee labrada i think rich gaspari was a guy that i kind of looked at lee haney had the small waist yeah he had a crazy i mean he was crazy at that. That's now? That's now, bro. That's Robbie Robinson now? Yeah, that's 70.

Isn't that crazy? Dude. I mean, look at the condition still. He's at Gold's gym all the time. Every day, but you'd never know that's what's underneath his body. No. Because he wears really baggy clothes. Yeah, he's got tons of sweatpants on.

He trains with Mike O'Hearn a lot. Yeah, and he doesn't say anything. Yeah, he doesn't. I've never spoken to Robbie Robinson in my life. Yeah, he doesn't yeah who's the guy that wears the mask all the time at golds that's probably him is it yeah because he has like he has like a sweat he has like a sweatshirt on and then he's got something kind of over his face and he just kind of like looks like a ninja yeah that's him that's robbie robinson holy shit yeah so he's back in like arnold's era and uh you know he was a big

big figurehead back then I mean that was part of the the golden era they call it yeah there's so many great bodybuilders

I mean Mike Matarazzo was one of my favorites he passed away Paul DeMeo was like with Quadzilla he was like my guy you mentioned that you uh you had a pretty big squat

when you were a teenager what did you what's your best squat? 700. Holy shit. Yeah, 700 at 19. That's fucking crazy. I was stupid then.

Were you really training for strength often, like trying just to go as heavy as you could? I was an ego lifter then, so I would go in the gym, and every week I'd try to break records because that was the cool thing to do in Gold's Gym Worcester. break records because that was like the cool thing to do in Gold's gym Worcester. But for me, it was like, uh, you know, I didn't think like, okay, I'm going to someday be Mr. Olympia. But then when I won the teen nationals at 19, I realized that I can't fuck around anymore. I just got to stop doing all this heavy shit. You know?

Did you, did you, uh, lift angry back then? Like a lot of kids, like they go to the gym and they're kind of like got a chip on their shoulder. I didn't lift angry because that wasn't my demeanor. I never get mad. But I think, uh, I think aggressively I was going at it. Meaning, uh, like I told, I told, uh, Smokey that I used to squat till my, my nose bled. And I thought that was cool.

That's the fucked up thing, you know? And, you know, I said, listen, you're not very cool. You think it's in this fucking gym is probably cool as hell, but it's not very impressive when you're at lifetime fitness now, you know? Yeah. The mirrors aren't covered with guys spit and snots all over them, you know? Right. But if you, you know, the thing is I used to get hemorrhoids when I squatted a lot. Holy shit.

Did you ever have hemorrhoids when you were squatting? Oh, yeah. It's brutal. Yeah, I had a bit lanced. I had a situation where I can't even remember what I was doing, probably a squat or a deadlift. And I just, like, stopped what I was doing, and I was like, I'm out. And, like, I think everybody thought I was kidding, and I was like, I think I blew my butthole out. Really? And I just left.

And like, I had to take a couple of days off and everything was fine after that. Can I ask you a question? It was terrible. There was something on the internet where a guy's intestine supposedly came out. Was that a real thing? I don't know if anybody knows. During a squat? Yeah.

I don't know if anybody knows if that was real or not, but that sounds. Did you ever see it? The cool thing about Google. You got to be able to flex your, what is that called uh taint yeah i guess so i guess so but i had to get whatever that p muscle i just remember that's like that was the shittiest part of my career was like you know i have to get my shit lanced you know they had to cut them because they started to get rid of them right and you you still used a lot of barbell exercises uh throughout your power throughout your bodybuilding career right yeah it was a full meathead to be honest

yeah you did uh a lot of uh traditional barbell squats you weren't like necessarily using a machine and i still i still barbell squat i only go up to like 185 or 200 now which is nothing right i do it 12 times but i just do it to stimulate. My legs are still actually pretty good size and conditioned for not really training them that much. Like I, like it's telling you guys, like I didn't train them for three years when I turned before I turned pro because my legs were just too damn big. I needed to build my upper body. How many sets and reps were you doing when you were in your prime? What did that look like? Between quads and hamstrings, 40 sets. I would do 20 to 25 just for quads. I'd do everything.

Back squats, front squats, leg presses, hack squats, lunges, leg extensions. These are real sets or is it including warm-ups? No, this is real sets. Warm-ups was only the first set for two sets and then it was like full-on after that stretch or anything or warm-up beforehand no i just went right into it but you know for me i just love to train like that's that's what separated me from like most guys is like just i just look forward every day to go in the gym and smash it up you know so like i would have the best gyms in the world in vegas i

don't know how many times you've been to vegas like when the gold gyms existed there was this gold gym flamingo sandhill it was it was awesome like it was like like disneyland for bodybuilders you know it was a fucking huge gym and they got they had a lot of old school stuff there and they had like the they had the power racks and shit there so like a lot of power lifters were there and it was just a good atmosphere, even though I was never really into power lifting. Like it wasn't what I started off doing. I loved it because I love being around that vibe.

Yeah. The energy. Those guys like, you know, power lifters, like to me, like my perception is like the guys don't make a lot of money. It's like a weekend thing. They get together. They get like a bunch of guys just, you know,

they chalk up and they put their suits on or whatever, wrap themselves up, but they get like a bunch of guys just you know they chalk up and they put their suits on or whatever wrap themselves up but they take like two hours between each set like why each one of them goes and sees what their max are so they're in the gym like hours like that's that's a passion to what you do so it was a cool vibe to always be around that because i was just you know around them training and to walk by that area and they watched me like kill it with repetitions. And even though like I wasn't doing what they did, they respected it because I was the best at what I did. Right. And they watched me train and shake their head and say, man, I can't believe, you know, you're doing that for that many repetitions. Cause I did train heavy, not like Coleman, but I was able to sling a lot of weight. I mean,

I still pressed, you know, I remember the flex photo shoot like you know I'd go in there and I'd do five plates and I'd sit on the floor with it you know why he took the pictures and come back up and he's like no one does this shit I mean they had 200 pound dumbbells that I would press I pressed at 23 it's like there's only one other guys that done this actually flex wheeler was the only one that did it for him but I thought like that was really fucking stupid then because like I just came off a show and I'm like pressing, that's not something. Yeah.

I mean, I think about it now and it's like my whole career could have been over, you know, pec tears are like career ending for bodybuilders a lot of times. So sometimes the ego did get in the way a little bit, but you know, fortunately I was able to step away and not be injured. That knocked me out.

What is the, uh, what the intensity look like on these sets? You know, how, like, was it like all out? Was it to failure? I never did failure, but what I did is I did, you know, I focused on 10 to 12 repetitions, but what I like to do is my rest time was very short. So I only rested 45 to 60 seconds. So basically if I was training with one partner, the partner would go and I would go and I would always train with people that didn't have to change the weight. So they had to be the same strength. And if they did train with me, it was a privilege to train with me. I was kind of a dick like that where people would be like, Hey, I want to be a trainer

partner. I said, well, I'm not changing weights. I'm not spotting you. Because the problem is, is when I was training, like I would would have i would sweat like crazy i mean i was 300 pounds and it was you know i like training when it was hot so i would sweat and i would drip drip all over people if i was spotting them especially doing chess and that kind of shit so i didn't want to touch people and i didn't want them touching me so i never had spotters that's why i never trained a failure but the rest time was that was super crucial for me so 45 to 60 seconds between each set which was i was was still winded but remember my goal wasn't weight challenges it was always for the pump and i felt that i think intensity thrives on how quick you move through and how much

intensity like if your mind stays continuous like with set after set after set, that's what makes you better. And I think that's what was important was the rest time in between. Whereas a power lifter might take five minutes. I don't know what you would take between each set, but your whole goal was to push the weight. My goal was to get pumped up and create as much muscle, uh, fullness as I could, and then get out of the gym and feed it. Right. It's a much safer route in some sense, because you're, you're getting fatigued throughout the sets.

And, uh, even though you're not necessarily going to failure, um, things are starting to get tough after you did three sets or four sets, right? Yeah. That's my ex-wife actually. She was one of the better training partners I had. How about how many sets would you do on a given exercise? Four or five? I would do, uh, three to four working sets. And, and would they normally be with like kind of the same weight or light, medium, heavy type of thing? I would always start off with, I would pyramid up

each, each, uh, set, but remember as I got stronger, I mean, when I did dumbbell work or, you know, with barbells, I only, I only trained with barbells so, so much. I mean, I stopped bench pressing because I realized how dangerous it was. Uh, I, the dumbbells only went so high. So I, I mean, it should, I got to a point where I could do one eighties, you know, 12, 15 times pretty easily.

Even for shoulder presses, I used to shoulder press one sixties for 12 repetitions. Shit. That's aitions shit that's a lot that's a lot of weight and so it just depends on what body part you worked on how many sets you did for like biceps oh yeah because like bison tries like i still stand with the same weights that i did when i was competing i mean arms you don't have to train that heavy it's all about repetitions and volume i mean if you go back to the arnold days and you watch those guys train i mean they would spend three hours in the gym and they didn't know the nutrition. That's why they didn't

get bigger, probably over-trained themselves, but they love doing it. That's why they were there. Right. And they were, you know, Arnold was winning $500 at the Mr. Olympia. I don't know if people know that. I mean, Arnold won one of those seven by himself. There was no one in the competition because two guys got disqualified so like those titles to me like you're not in the competition like you have nowadays where the guys are like competing with the top 20 in the world or whatever right like it's a whole nother animal but we're also getting paid by endorsement deals that arnold and them didn't have they were laying bricks and you know drinking milk and shit while they were getting ready for the show. So it was very difficult for them to make a living at it.

And the prize money was shit, but they still, that just proves like that was the passion of the golden era of bodybuilding is like, they didn't care about the money. They did it because they loved the train. I mean, really, if you wonder what Arnold's end goal was, I mean, he says he wanted to be a movie guy, but you know, definitely wasn't like, he says he wanted to be a movie guy but you know definitely wasn't like oh i want to be a 10-time mr olympia because i want to win five grand over 10 years you know what i'm saying like so and truthfully i never thought about the money to be honest like the money wasn't like when i get that check the two weeks after winning the show i was like damn

this is a great extra to win in the title. And I never like thought after the show, like, oh, I want to win. For me, it was the same shit. I love to train. Like that was the fun part. And, you know, the Olympia stage was just a place where I could put my talent and just say, okay, I'm going to put it on the line. And like I told you, I didn't give a shit whether I placed first, sixth, whatever.

Of course I got into it. Once I started winning, you don't want to go backwards, but I just was like, okay, let me just go showcase what I, so I can go back to training and doing what I do and fulfilling the sponsors and living the best life I could. How long these workouts take? These are like two hour workouts, man. I just, I spent a lot of time in the gym. I would say that I somewhat over-trained.

I mean, I loved being in the gym. I would say that I somewhat over-trained. I mean, I loved being in the gym. Like, what can I tell you? It's, it wasn't like, oh, well I had to or whatever. It was like, I had a choice to be there either 15 minutes or three hours and I kind of went in between. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true with a lot of us. Um, but, but you got to get yourself out of the gym to recover too, right?

You got to get yourself some food and, and so on. Right. I mean, yeah, you have to, you have to do all those things, but look at, look at your life here. Look, you're set up here. You live in a gym. Right. I mean, this is what you do, right? Cause you'll always, you're going to die like a hardcore bodybuilder.

That's right. You know, power lift or whatever. Someone that's around it all the time. Like that's all I cared about. Like that was being in the gym for that, that amount of training four times, like that blows people's minds, but shit, it's like a great life for me at that point. Yeah. It just seemed like you have, uh, you know, uh, a focus that's just on, on a whole nother

level, uh, than what, uh, whole nother level. Thank you. Uh, then, uh, you know, what, what most people, what most people would be able to handle. And I think that's, I think that's again, back to, you know, why people want to wait four hours, why people want to see you at seminars, why, you know, we really appreciate having you here today, especially because you don't normally do podcasts. Um, a lot of that is, is because of the dedication. I think a lot of that is is because of the dedication i think a lot of people scratch their head and like fuck man how was he able to i was able to do that you know yeah it's funny you say that

because i just thought about that as we're talking about this i think it didn't interest me before to talk about it like i do now because at some point you have to realize okay i'm not getting back on stage and what's the next era of my life and And I've told you, I've come to a realization after hearing all the stories that people that come to me at these expos and tell me like what changed their lives. And if I had influence on that. So I realized the importance of me actually getting out there and speaking more and being an introvert, like someone that's like, oh, you know, it's not really my thing to sit there and talk about what I've succeeded at and what other people didn't. I think it's now time for me to voice what I have to say and, and really kind of get people on the same page as what drove me and what continues to drive me and what it's like in the mindset of, of how to become who I became.

Because there's next, there's next person, you know, there's a lot of next people that are going to get to that level and they're going to achieve something, not necessarily on a Mr. Olympia stage, but later in life and other things. And I think that's kind of where I'm going to kind of leave it at with, um, you know, why I continue to do what I do is because, you know, I'm trying to just showcase a talent that was started as a hobby and it was a passion, but it, it became a bigger and better thing. What's, uh, we mentioned some of the cool things that have happened. What's the worst thing that has happened? Um, I know that you, uh, kind of said you don't have any regrets, but, um, you know, along with winning for, uh, Mr. Olympia titles and all that time in the gym,

what, what's the, what, what's the worst thing that got sacrificed? Do you think? My relationships with my family, I think, uh, you know, my family's in Massachusetts and I'm on the West coast. It's hard for me to get home. And, you know, my parents are getting older every day and, you know, we can talk about the things that matter to us most in life. And really as you get older and I think, you know, you realize this too,

as family comes first, right? Absolutely. And I talked about, like, they were so supportive, like, later. You know, in the beginning they didn't understand it. But, you know, my brothers and sisters, they all came to my shows. Like, when I won all my Arnolds. That's awesome. That's really cool. Like, they took a big van down and they'd come watch me compete.

And it was kind of like the hillbillies coming to the Arnold because they're like country people. My brothers hunt. They didn't know what the fuck was going onies coming to the Arnold. Cause they're like country people. My, my brothers hunt. They didn't know what the fuck was going on. Well, people like this, your brothers, like they don't, you know what I mean? They come with their concrete. They think they're all going to be tan. Yeah.

You know, they don't realize like, they think, oh, Jake Cutler lives this like lifestyle and you know, his family, he must come from this kind of background, but they're like, they're just like country people, you know? Right. So they were like, they're cheering and they were in my cheering section. My dad and my mom came to all my Olympias. My mom was right there for all, she was there at the T Nationals, like under a tree painting me like in between the prejudging, the finals. How cool. So like being able to spend time with them is, is crucial to me and seeing my brothers

and you know, their kids are all growing up now. They all have children. I don't have any children because I had enough nieces and nephews. I was an uncle when I was nine years old. And, uh, you know, it's, it's just really cool to be able to now to spend time with them and

be able to eat my mom's cookies and like the stuff that I couldn't eat before and like the normal dinners and, you know, have a drink with my brothers or whatever. I can't come home for Thanksgiving. I can't come home for Thanksgiving. I can't come home for Christmas. Right. You can't, you couldn't do it, right?

No, I could. I mean, I did, but it was like, I was on my like Tupperware shit, you know? And now it's like, I'm eating everything and I'm spending time and like, it means a lot more to me. Right. And that's kind of transition of life. Right. My mindset isn't like on the, on the go button all the time.

And that's, I think that's the best way to explain, like, that was what my life was like. It was, it was like go full fucking throttle every day. And now it's like, it's kind of more laid back. I mean, we talked to, you said at lunch, you mentioned something about your mindset can't be that way. It's like, I'm so laid back, like with everything. I don't get angry. I don't really, I get of course frustrated and sometimes stressed out, but not to the point

where it, it's, if it's not life altering, I don't give a shit. Yeah. Like too many people take things like way too personal and they think, oh my goodness, this is going to happen. And like, I'm like, fuck that. Like it's okay.

Like it's not life alteraltering yeah that's like when i got the email i don't i don't know what i did with my email i think i hit like a weird button you canceled the shit i can't i canceled today's show somehow and i just i just looked at it for a second i was like that's odd i'll get back to that later he must be pissed and then so i he texts me and he's like are we still on I said yeah everything's fine he's like well you canceled the calendar date I was like I thought you did that pushing the blade I said this motherfucker you know because I didn't get to come last time I was up here because this big party in Vegas phone out the window dude I'm already here what the fuck yeah so I was looking forward to it you know coming up for the day and knocking this thing out and I mean I can't wait

to come up for one of your events because I hear such great things about them i mean that's the thing with the networks like you know people it's your passion bro like yeah that's why i respect it and that's why i wanted to be part of this thing and coming and seeing i mean i saw your staff at the arnold i came to your like event shortly which was a fucking zoo uh but it was so cool man it wasn't that crazy and uh you know sweaty and I realized, yeah, but I said, you know what?

I want to be part of this guy's like, this guy's like whole thing. You know, it's, it's just like a movement, you know? Right. And I,

I think, um, you know, as, like I said, as I get older, like my time is like, okay,

I want to be on someone else's like part of someone else's success too. And I think that's why, like, I was excited to come someone else's like part of someone else's success too. And I think that's why, like, I was excited to come up here and kind of, you know, talk to you guys and hang out. And I see your staff. Like I, I saw everyone at the airport when I showed up there and, uh, I was been, you know, we've been trying to make this happen for a long time. Yeah. It's a, it's a goal of ours, you know, when you don't get, I mean, luckily for you, it's a goal of ours, you know, when you don't get, I mean, luckily for you, you are a very high level bodybuilder. So you experienced some things, um, but definitely not in powerlifting and just in life in general, I think we're sometimes like underappreciated, you know,

and, and that's all people want. People just want to feel substantial. They want to feel good. So when we have people come here, um, second, you walk through the door, my staff is going to flock to, you're going to say, you need water, you need food. Like we're probably almost be like on you too much and bother you too much. But it's, uh, it's all part of just trying to make people feel good. Like we really admire, um, you know, when people have the drive and the focus and determination to put in all those hours in the gym, like it deserves a reward. And that's kind of why I asked you a question about Joe Weider.

It's like, man, without people like that around, it's like, what the fuck's going to happen to some of these? What's going to happen to bodybuilding? Well, that's the thing. Like you, you just nailed it. And I don't know, you know, you obviously know something that a lot of people don't, but when Joe Weider passed away, man, like that's where bodybuilding kind of started to fade. Because when you have someone that's passionate to help the guys to achieve

like their best. And I remember Joe telling me, it's like, I'll never put a bad picture of you in a magazine. And the problem with social media, you asked me like the good and bad things about the internet, pictures leak on the internet that shouldn't be there, you know? And that's the thing with the magazines. They made us all to be like superstars and they only had the best pictures. Like they went through the slides and said, okay, this one's good. This one's bad. And he showcased the best, you know, he showed everyone strong points and, you know, made you

look the best and touched up and whatever, but the internet doesn't allow us to do that or social media. So it's like this. And I'll make the example is like, you have this person that you like, you hear about and they become kind of like an idol or whatever. And then you get on, you listen to their media and they start speaking. You're like, wow, wait a minute. I'm not sure if I like this guy. Like I liked it visually, right? Because they start talking or on the other end, maybe you don't like them so much, but

then once they start talking, you like them. Like, I really like this guy i like his his passion and whatever he's you know what he's out to say i think that's really what you know where it can be a good and bad thing it's like a double-edged sword you know so uh given the voice like that's why every time i put content out like i'm real like it's me but at the same time's like, I don't give a shit if you like me or you don't, because I just know like my journey is for me and I'm not really trying to do it for anyone else. I'm not going to copy anyone. I kind of set like the standard to what my career was. And I'm going to continue to do that. And either you have the vision that I have

and you follow it or you don't, there's always the next guy to go to. so everyone's going to have their idols or people they'd follow or admire or people they respect or don't respect and and that's that's every person's uh you know choice what they what they decide to uh to really pursue awesome man well i appreciate i mean you didn't have to give us your old posing trunks that you never washed um but i i those? Did you steal those out of my bag? Uh, I think Smokey did with his teeth. He was sniffing around there like a dog. Yeah. You got any more questions?

Yeah. Uh, so what's your breakfast like right now? 20 egg whites, two whole eggs, two slice of Ezekiel bread, two packets of oatmeal. You ever try to eat 20 egg whites? I used to eat 30. Oh my God. Oh, two packets of oatmeal. You ever try to eat 20 egg whites? I used to eat 30. Oh my God.

Oh, you cut way back. So with eating 30, is there any crazy poop stories with eating all this food? All that oatmeal too. Damn. We were talking about this earlier. I think, you know, I had, I was training for, what show was it? I think it was the 06 Olympia. No, 09.

Was it 09? No, I mean, it might've been 06. And I was eating a ton of like, I was eating this Ezekiel cereal. It's like a flourless, like cereal bread. It's like a big thing. You buy at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. A lot of fiber. So I think it got irritated my intestines and shit so i like i ended up like shitting a lot you know and i mean as a bodybuilder like you you take a lot of dumps you know i'm sure you

live on the shitter you know so so i'm in the gym training back that day and i'm like damn like my fucking stomach's like killing me and i'm like i gotta go home and i gotta shit you know it was like two in the afternoon so i already eaten like three times and i think i already had like three meals of the ezekiel so i remember like i was on the phone with my with my wife at the time and i'm like damn my stomach's i have to leave the gym like and i was pulling out i remember exactly where it was i was at the cross street of lake meet in buffalo i was in my silver mercedes right and i got to the light and I'm like, oh my God, I can't hold this any longer. And literally I just, I shit myself. And I swear to God,

the fucking, it raised me in a seat. Because I shit like a fucking, like a donkey back then, you know what I mean? I was like 300 pounds and i'm like when i got home i'm like i was screaming to my wife i'm like i was afraid to get up because i didn't want to leave you know dude i was driving like my dream mercedes yeah you had to like roll out of it yeah and i'm like fuck this feels so terrible you know and i you know i'm not smoky you shit yourself every fucking week or whatever you know but but it's was like, damn, like this is fucked up. Like I'm a grown man and I'm shitting myself after the gym, you know?

You know, it's funny because one time I was walking the dogs too and the same thing, I was working the same issue and I was walking the dogs and for some reason they had an outhouse because they were doing construction in my neighborhood. Thank God they had the outhouse because I had a shit so bad. And I ran, I remember I had a run in and I had the dogs on leashes.

I had big air. One was a hundred pounds. So the dogs are on the leashes and I was in shitting on the thing. And the dogs were outside the outhouse. Like the door. Could you imagine how good that would be to see that? Oh my God, that's Jake Cutler.

And you're like, oh. So I was, I was sitting there taking a dump in the outhouse and the dogs, I had them on the leash holding them. It was crazy. But man, that're like, oh. So I was sitting and taking a dump in the outhouse and the dogs, I had them on my shoulder. I mean, it was crazy. But, man, that's like. Raised you up out of your seat.

You know what's funny? When I used to do seminars, like, people would ask me the craziest shit. And I remember one kid, we had, must have had, shoot, over 100 people, like 150 people at this seminar. And it's like, all all right anyone have any questions first question the guy says how many times do you take a shit each day and i'm like and there's parents there and you know what i mean we're on it's your podcast so this is just normal shit but i was so fucking embarrassed like i mean what am i supposed to say

right i mean like anywhere between 15 and 40. You know what drives me crazy too is Ed Connors. Okay. The guy who used the house. Yeah. He tells all these young kids now, Jay used more toilet paper than anyone I ever had. That's awesome. And I'm like, what the fuck?

Why would you? And that's not true either. He's, what the fuck? Why would you, and that's not true. He's got to spend all, all his money on the toilet paper. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, Hey,

that's one of the downsides of bodybuilding was like, you have to use to live in on the toilet. You know, if you're going to eat, then you're going to poop. Right. It's, I know,

but you know, it's honestly, that's the most time I look at Instagram is when I'm taking a dump, you know? So when you get your scroll on. Yeah. Anything else? Just after that story, you'd always offend.

You're a hero now. That's fucking awesome. Yeah, hero status. How'd you clean that? I mean, how'd you clean that up? It must have been a mess. I threw the pants out. I remember they were gray pants.

Oh, so they were toast. Oh, they were soaking wet. Did you poop on the seat? Oh, yeah. The seats had to be cleaned and everything. I mean, it ran through. Yeah. You would have loved it, Smokey.

You would have loved it, bro. It might have looked like that scene in Pulp Fiction. I probably could have sold those pants on eBay. And Smokey would have bought them. These, you know what? It's crazy. Some freak in Germany. No, you know what?

Guys used to send me bags to sell them sweaty shirts oh that's great that was a send them back yeah yeah like they used to want people used to ask me for pictures of my feet like crazy that was super draining you talk about those fucked up stories man like it's just like the letters i used to get you know some of the stuff that came in like uh when you were you know new to it when you're new to like being famous in the fitness industry where you sometimes like what like somebody wanted to pay you like i don't know 50 grand to come just show up and pose or something or yeah you get a lot of offers where you're just like what the hell like that they just want to see me like Like, and they want to give me this money? As a young kid, you're just, you're kind of, like, taken back by that whole thing.

Like, you didn't realize what it was, and you meet people, and, like, you hear these offers, and it's just like, man, like, is this what I'm getting into? You know, if I ever told my parents that shit, like, they'd probably think, oh, my mom doesn't listen to, she doesn't even know how to turn the computer on really so she can't watch this shit but like i don't know it's it's just too much man it's too it's even too much to go into it's i don't know i like i said i don't know how it is nowadays because i'm a 44 year old guy i'm not getting letters like like okay will you pose for me or this and that anymore you know Maybe when you're 60 you will because they're in your wheelchair, right? They're waiting until you get a little older. All right. Well, I don't want it to end.

So anabolic use during the quote-unquote golden era versus now. Because I know you kind of talked about it a little bit before we went on air. I hate to say what – I don't know what these guys did. I mean, listen, we don't live with each other. So it's not like, oh, this guy takes this and that. I mean, definitely back in the days of Schwarzenegger and these guys, like they didn't have the antibiotics that are available. I think, you know, we went through a phase of like, you know, there was, there was only

limited usage. And then we fell into the phase of like growth hormones, insulin, like in exotic stuff that came from Europe. Like that was like earlier, a little before my era and during my era. And then it fell into now everyone's making shit in their basement and it's just crazy tons more oil and guys are taking 10 times the shit that

they need to. And that's why the bodies just look so horrendous now is because they're just loaded with oil and they can't get the condition and the stuff is weaker. All the compounds are coming from China. It's hard to find good shit. Like, you know what? I wouldn't even know if someone said to me, hey, I want to buy this.

And I wouldn't even know like the local guy to get it from or anything. Like back then you knew in the gym, like this is a guy that has a, I mean, listen, I would just go to straight to a doctor now at this point. That's the only thing I can really advise to people. Like someone asked me yesterday, like, Hey, I want to get this or that. And I'm like, listen, go to your doctor. If the doctor can't prescribe it, like stay away from it. Cause don't go to like the guy that can get it around, you know, that, you know, from like the gym.

Cause it's probably not going to be legit. Right. And that's a dangerous thing. And that's what the internet kind of, I mean, people buy stuff off like websites and stuff, which is just mind blowing to me. Who knows what their intent is. Maybe their intent, like maybe they just want it to be super powerful and you'd have like these crazy results.

So you come back and buy more and maybe, maybe it's not even testosterone. Maybe it's something different. So you don't really know, you don't really know what you're getting. I remember years ago, uh, one of the best powerlifting meats i ever had i had these ampules of uh sustenon and it was the best shit that i ever had but i could never fucking find it ever again and it's like you know nowadays you're right like things are just made by people who are mixing compounds yeah the blends the blends were, seemed to be the best back then, like the ampoules.

And now it's like 10 CC bottles. Those things are like gold. I remember I'd mess them up every once in a while. Cause you're like break them. You're like, fuck, I, I screwed it all up. Yeah. So it's like with that stuff, um, you know,

dude, it's just, it's so dangerous now. And I think that, I think that, you know, everyone's kind of thinks that there's a secret drug and i mentioned those uh like peptides peptides which is like that stuff i'm not even aware of because i know it for a fact i've seen it and it's like oh not for human use so what does that tell you it's the first thing people talk about when they have an injury they're like dump a bunch of that in there and i'm like i don't know i don't yeah i don't think that's a great i don't sound but you know i went through the era of like that like growth hormone and the lyle azedo thing and he used like the human whatever it was it was from dead cadavers

or something like the real like synthetic growth hormone and like we went through all that phase of like, it's dangerous to take. And then you hear the athletes taking it and recovery processes, and then they weren't testing for it. Now they can test for it. So I think, you know, back in Arnold's era, yeah, no growth hormones in insulin, but nowadays it's like every guy and every gym is taking growth hormone and insulin, which is just crazy to me. Like you start messing with insulin, that kind of stuff. It's, it's very, very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, but they read about

it and this guy did it or that guy did it. I mean, you know how many times I've heard, oh, well, this guy used to sell you stuff. Like I hear it all the time still like, oh, you get your stuff from this guy or that. And I'm like, listen, I haven't bought any juice from anyone, you know? Right. Like it's crazy. The stories are here. People are probably, yeah, probably they're probably any juice from anyone, you know? Right. Like, it's crazy. The stories are here. People are probably, yeah, probably they're probably trying to use your name, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So it's just, it's kind of crazy to me, but it's definitely advanced and I think people are more aware of it, but don't believe what you read on the internet. That's for sure. Nice. So if a kid comes up and a kid, I mean, maybe someone in their twenties, they're getting pretty jacked and they look at you and they're like, Hey, I'm thinking about getting on. What's your advice for

someone like that? I always say, you know, consult with a physician. Uh, once you make that change, you know, it's something that maybe you can't turn back on because once your levels get, get, you know, something from outside like source, you're, you're never going to be the same. I mean, you may have to be on therapy for the end of time, but it's all preference. I mean, what, whatever their personal goal is, but most people it's like for the weekend warrior, the guy that's like, I want to get in shape for summer. I never suggest like, Hey, get on a cycle and do this or that. But these guys aren't going to listen to me. They're going to look and say, Oh, well, Jay, you know, you got to where you were taking this or taking that.

But it really doesn't, that doesn't have to do with them. Like I did what I did in order to pursue an ultimate goal. It wasn't about, uh, you know, trying to look good for the beach or whatever else I had. Instagram. Yeah. I mean, so you have to look at what your, what your ultimate goal is and, but be safe about it. And I always tell everyone, see a doctor because nowadays, like the doctors prescribe it. Right.

Which wasn't the case 10, 15 years ago. Right. Right. No doctor was going to give you a script for nothing back then. I mean, the studies have shown now to replace testosterone. It's, it's pretty simple procedure now. Movies like Bigger, Stronger, Faster. There you go.

Made people more aware what's going on yeah um do you think move or documentaries like generation iron are accurate as far as like dictating what the sport's like um the first one was very fake as far as like you know they portrayed phil heath as like a like a really jerk a jerk off you know and that's not phil i mean i know phil well kai green they portrayed him as a broke guy he makes money uh dennis wolf was an actor um i don't know what else they're just trying to make it entertaining yeah because i mean what are you going to show guys working out and eating chicken breasts all day i mean we talked about that it's not it's not

it's not exciting so they had to show something was going on. Yeah. Do you think Kai can ever catch up to Phil? Not at this point. Damn. Phil's pretty much untouchable. He'll win eight this year and go for 10 probably. Did they test for anything in bodybuilding? You know what?

They drug tested Ronnie and I one year, specifically in June of... Oh, four or five, whenever the baseball thing was apparent. They tested the top. They just wanted to test you and say, hey, these guys are on all this shit and they're fine. No, no, no.

You know, I don't know what they test us for. I remember they're probably testing for compounds and, you know, I don't even know what the test results were, but it was, uh, it was an off season thing. It wasn't during a contest. I mean, they normally wouldn't really test for anything, right? No, not now. I mean, they're not doing random testing. I mean, I always had physical diuretics or anything.

No, they used to. I mean, if you remember, oh one, I failed and I fought it and ended up beating it. But like, uh, they'd stopped doing that because they just had to muhammad benaziza died and that's how they got that whole testing thing because it was because diuretics he was dehydrated that's more dangerous than steroids did andreas andreas munzer did he die the same way yeah i think he was uh overly uh dehydrated too but you know they found a bunch of steroids in his system so fucking lean yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was shredded. I mean, he was like one of the most shredded guys ever. Yeah.

People were like, he died from being too, too ripped. Yeah. Who knows? You never know. I mean, it's most of it's dehydration, kidney failure, that kind of stuff. I mean, if anyone goes in the hospital, uh, the night of a competition, they're going to be in renal failure for sure, because you can't get that dehydrated. It's going to put too much strain on the kidneys where can people find you where can people find out more

about jay cutler uh at jay cutler instagram jay cutler forex facebook um my website jaycutler.com nutrition.com all the instagram i mean google search j cutler i'm the better looking one on your uh on your instagram you're also letting people know like where you're gonna be like you got you do seminars and i post up appearances which i'm every week somewhere else and i find that to be uh false advertising by the way those pictures you don't look nearly as big as you as you do you know in, you don't look nearly as big as you do in person. You don't look nearly as big as those photos. I look like shit, huh? Yeah, it's really bad.

Well, I mean, I can't advertise myself like the ST Jim over here. That's right. All right, that's all the time we got. Strength is never weak. This weakness is never strength. We're out.