Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 79 - Ben Claridad

Episode Date: June 28, 2018

Ben Claridad is a professional weightlifting coach with a decade of coaching experience and over a decade of competitive weightlifting experience. Ben is a national 94kg lifter who regularly totals in the 320kg range. Ben attained his BS in Exercise Science from Sacramento State University. He is the owner and coach of Occam Athletics based in Sacramento, CA. Rewatch the live stream here: https://youtu.be/ucgdFGoe62o ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/markbellspowerproject FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

Is it your strength, the hair? Kind of a Samson thing? I wanted it to be my thing for a while, but now it's just kind of weird, and it just sort of gets in the way, and it just looks kind of disgusting. Yeah. You know how that goes.

Does it... Like, you know, you want it to be a thing, and you want it to be, like, its own thing, but then you see somebody else with long hair, and you're like, that guy's stealing my shit. Yeah, I know. And sometimes people look a lot better with long hair too. So now I have a weird mustache.

And you're not sure where you stand. Yeah. I'm at a crossroads right now. People aren't sure if you play music or if you lift. Yeah, they're like, this guy just looks kind of weird to me. So what's that all about? Are you into music or art? You look like you are.

Yeah. Whatever that means. Yeah, yeah. I actually have an art show coming up, which is pretty cool. I've wanted to, I actually just started oil painting. Oh, really? Yeah. Just sort of picked it up.

I know it always seemed boring to me. I had a girlfriend in college who was oil painted, and I was just doing my quick sketches and stuff, stuff I've always done. I was like, man, that looks really boring. And now I'm doing it. Have you always been like that? Since the time you were young, have you always been kind of creative

and just doodled on paper and always been to art? Totally. When I was a kid, I would just draw superheroes at recess. I would just draw superheroes at recess. Yeah. I would just draw superheroes and I'd read like Greek mythology and stuff because I was weird. People are like, let's play football. And you're like, no, man, I'm going to draw a jacked guy lifting weights. Yeah.

I was like, no, man. Have you ever seen Wolverine though? Like that's way better than like, you know, real life. I'm like, so I've always been that way. And now I've got like a music thing going. It's like a very, it's very not serious for me because i want it to be fun yeah kind of like how weightlifting used to be you know it was like it was like my hobby i did for fun and now it's my entire life so what about uh school like conventional school like uh were you good in school medium in school uh i was all it was that

was always a point of contention between me and my parents because they felt like I could always do better, but I wanted to do just what I needed to do. How do parents know? Parents always think you can do better. What do you guys know? Come on. What do you mean I can do better? I could also do a lot worse. Right.

So that was basically where I was at. But I eventually graduated with an A degree in exercise science. Right. And that was enough. I think that's enough for now because I got the gym. exercise science. Right. And that was enough. I think that's enough for now because I got the gym, you know, and, uh, I don't, I never really planned pets this point because I have what I've always wanted. So I'm like, Oh man, like, let me just enjoy this. Do you, uh, understand now what your parents were just trying to like say, I guess, or, you know, do you understand like the amount

of stress that you put them through by probably like almost maybe not caring as much as they cared about your grades i mean absolutely i i feel like the older i get like i'm 31 now right and uh i just recently went to nationals and i visited my buddy who's this exact same age as me and he picked me up in his new jeep and he we i stayed in his guest room of his new house and he's got a baby and stuff i'm like oh this is why you know i'm like okay uh and then you have like this moment where like maybe i wasted my entire life you know don't worry all that was rented even the baby yeah yeah so i'm like maybe i just wasted my entire life but then like then i i had like uh like four weeks after the fact it was like kind

of an emotional thing for me. Think about it. Coming to Jesus moment. Yeah, I was like, oh man, like this too. You can't live the way you're living forever. But then I thought about it. I'm like, you know what? No one has exactly what I have. And that's also really important to me. So I kind of came to the point where I really believe this now.

It's like I just really want to do this thing I'm doing as long as I can. Yeah, you're an individual. You've got your own individualism you got your own traits yeah and uh it's really easy to look at the other person and be like oh shit how do i figure that out yeah but maybe that's not for you for now so who cares yeah yeah it doesn't matter maybe it matters as much as your grades did right exactly exactly Exactly. Exactly. I think I'm just sort of like a late bloomer. So I'll get there when I get there. I like your bloomers. Thank you.

To be honest. If we're just being honest. I've saw them through your singlet. Yeah. I'm blooming all right. Yeah. Blooming onion. So are these paintings on your Instagram, are those oil paintings?

Yeah, those are oil. And I just started doing it. I'm more of like I just try it and then figure it out as you go sort of thing so like only the last couple i actually had any sort of technique experience underneath my belt um but i've also i've always been in like really good at just drawing people which is like all my work is figurative it's all women uh i mean i I don't know. I just, uh, I was going to ask you where the inspiration came from, but I guess if it's just women. Yeah. I mean, I had some hot, those like the, it's kind of muscular too. Look at those delts. Yeah. I mean, I'm

going to put muscles on all on everybody, you know, going to be lean, whatever, whether or not you have them. Like if I'm going to draw a picture of you, it's going to happen. We do that with an image of Smokey. Yeah. That t-shirt we were talking about earlier? Yeah. Wanted to make him look jacked, even though, you know. Maybe, you know. What's your interpretation of this, Andrew, of this photo with this chick that's like half elk, half demon, half holding up an apple thing? It's like she's a target because she's half elk, so it's hunting season. But she has an apple up like, hey, I dare you to come at me.

Hit this target right now. Yeah, I don't know. I want her to be a powerful figure. I was way off. Yeah, I don't know. I just want her to be this really powerful figure that, I don't know, I didn't really think beyond that point. But also, I was like, how about antlers? That'd be pretty sick.

So I just sort of did it. That's fucking amazing, dude. That's sick. Thank you. Yeah, it does look cool. Yeah. The green in the background. But art is interesting that way. Like, you know, if it didn't have antlers, it would just be so much different, right?

Right, right. It should just be like a green person with some green and yellow. Right. That's what makes it unique in a lot of ways you know my my son is uh my son is 14 and he hates doing his homework and all this stuff too and these conversations are awful to have with him about his homework and stuff and uh my wife is like super uptight about it i really honestly and truly don't care i'm like his uh his heart is beaten, his brain's working, he's a happy kid, he's a good person.

I'm like, I'm all good with all that. At the same time, it's like you're trying to figure out a way how do we get him to understand that he can't just randomly do whatever he wants, although things are shaping up to be that way nowadays. It sounds like

your life is like that. It sounds like your life is like that. It looks like my life is like that. And for the most part, I'm not really doing a lot of things that I don't want to do. Right. I don't think I would have the confidence to like, just keep pushing with this thing I have. If I didn't have the support of my parents,

like they're like, they're that safety net. Like they don't really agree with most things I do or say, you know, but they're like, you're all right, son. Like we'll stick with you on this just because you're our son.

And like, like we just, we're, we're with you no matter what, you know. Unconditional love, which is a hard thing for people to sometimes understand. Yeah. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing thing. Your parents, they go to the weightlifting meets and stuff sometimes? Uh, sometimes, sometimes, uh, they, they don't like, I like, I think they haven't watched me compete in a long time, but they'll ask about how I did and stuff. And, you know, I'll actually communicate with them, like, a lot more nowadays about, like,

what's going on with me in the gym and, like, lifting and stuff. But they'll come out to, like, meets we're hosting and stuff just to see what I actually do, like, as a job, you know? Does it come up in conversation at family gatherings, Christmas, Thanksgiving? Because your brother's into lifting too. Yeah, Chris will do my meets. He doesn't listen to anything I say. I mean, why would he? Because he's my younger brother. But he'll still compete and stuff at my things and he'll come out and watch. It's close to like a family outing.

Yeah, your brother, I remember, you know, this is how Ben and I met pretty much was through Midtown Strength and Conditioning. And I remember, you know, when you came through the doors, I remember your brother was working at Midtown as well. And I remember your brother just always doing crazy shit. I'm like, why is this kid hanging upside down? What's he doing?

He's only gotten weirder. He's like ripped and jacked but he can do these amazing weird feats of strength. Yeah. He's more of that now. We're both more of who we are now. Which is just sort of these weird guys that just do whatever they want to do.

But we have other siblings that are not weird. My parents actually have a grandkid now, so they're happy. So me and Chris could like my parents actually have a grandkid now. So like they're happy. Um, cool. So me and Chris could be those weird guys. I just sort of like mess around.

Yeah. The pressure's off. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm good. Yeah. I could just be that crazy uncle,

you know, uh, who's just sort of like, is always kind of hurting for money. You know, who's just so kind of always into some sort of weird, like weird stuff. Like, why does he go to a coffee shop and paint?

Like, why doesn't he just keep working? Yeah, yeah. Like, what is that? Doesn't he need to pay his rent? Yeah. Yeah. Is there any, like, correlation or connections where, like, either art has helped you lifting or where lifting has helped you paint something? I think the more stressed out I get with work, the more I feel the need to produce art or music or whatever.

Just be into it. Just because you need to have some sort of outlet. If you're owning your own thing, you're in charge. You're there all the time. You're plugged in the weightlifting all the time. It's important to unplug and just express yourself in different ways. As far as i'm concerned like art is like the healthiest way you could do it you know like just like tuning out i

don't meditate or anything but like when i'm painting that's all i'm thinking about i'm not thinking about programming or you know technique or you know just general business stuff or like paying the bills, or whatever. Do you do anything while you're painting to make sure that it's uninterrupted? Do you just shut your phone off or put it away, or anything like that, or you just don't care if you're interrupted a little bit?

Yeah, I mean, I rarely answer my phone anyways. But yeah, it'll be during off hours, and I'll just lock the doors, the music and then just go you know and are you very day-to-day are you is that i mean that's kind of the yeah i'm definitely not a planner like i i need my schedule like my schedule is what keeps me on track and out of trouble like i think that's kind of why i'm good at like being at my gym every single day because not everybody could do that that's that's a hard thing to do you know um but i'm also like i have a like a calendar at my gym that my one of my lifters set up there specifically so i could just look at it and not have to worry about like putting it into my phone and like

knowing when such such things are coming up because i'm just not good at that yeah my brother's uh and and you know mine too but like my brother his brain will drift around in a bunch of different spots. And then we'll go to go outside and he won't remember where he parked his car. He's like, I don't know. But it's not even a little bit. He has no clue where the car is. It's crazy. You've got to wait until everyone leaves.

I think we just walked past it three times. I think we've all been there where we just kind of keep clicking the... I think we're getting there. Yeah, just kind of keep clicking the, you know, we're getting there. Yeah, trying to check it out and look around. Yeah. So how did you get into Olympic lifting in the first place? In the first, all right, so that was 2005 when I started doing it. And no one was doing Olympic lifting at the time.

And I was like doing like bodybuilding workouts that you see in magazines in high school. Hold on a second. Are you saying that you invented Olympic weightlifting uh yes in the United States yeah yeah just to be clear there was no one else doing it before me right ever pioneer yeah uh but it was just wasn't like you didn't it was like this weird thing that no one was doing and then I saw I was not paying attention to math class in high school I saw a picture of a famous weightlifter doing a snatch. I'm like, what is that? You know, cause you remember who it was?

Uh, Halil Mutlu. Uh, I don't even know if I'm saying his name right. Yeah. But, um, is that that, uh, was that that front squat picture? He was a very small dude. I don't know. Like, yeah. Uh, he has this, he has a face that way.

If I see it, I'm like, that's him. Um, but I was, I'm like, that's him. But I was I was like, what is that? And I thought I was strong at the time because I do my bodybuilding workouts for muscle fitness. You know, I just lost a lot of weight. So I thought I looked sexy and stuff. I'm like, I could do this. So I tried it out by myself. And like I immediately was I was like, this is that the next absolute pure form of strength.

I'm like, I need to do it. So I found a team at Sacramento State where I went to college. And it turns out the team was just me because there's no one else doing it. And I had to forge a bunch of signatures to like remain a club and stuff. And then I would,

it just sort of, people just started following me around doing this weird activity. And that's my life now. You thought there was a team, but there was no team? There was supposed to be a team there but they were all gone. I had come to weightlifting at a time where I call it the dark ages.

There was popular 90s but then no one was really doing it anymore. It dried up. Between now and then, like the population of weightlifters in the United States, people identify as a weightlifter. I don't even know. I have no numbers behind this at all, but it's huge now compared to what it was. Yeah. When you first started, do you remember what some of those contests looked like in comparison to now? I mean, because now I think you go to some of, some competitions will be like several days, right?

It will go for three, four days in a row. Yeah. I was just joking around with Smokey that there was like at a national meet, like an American Open Series, there was like a J session. Like, and that was something you talk about, like, or like joke about where you have your A session, B session, C session. There's, it went down to like a J, you know, like there's, there's that many people qualifying for national events. So yeah, they take forever, you know? Yeah. And they're actually like fun now.

And they actually like look cool now. I want to say I've heard, you know, upwards of four or 500 people at some. Yeah. I think there was like a thousand people at one American. Yeah. And I mean, that's just the competitors. Yeah. Obviously there's other people.

Yeah. I think it's great. You know, I think the explosion obviously was, uh, uh, CrossFit helped with the explosion, uh, tremendously. Yeah. And then also to just timing of CrossFit. And I think other people kind of recognized, uh, you don't even have to really be a CrossFit. You could just open up a gym.

You can have a spot that just has enough, uh, square feet to get a couple platforms in there and some weights, and you can go from there. Yeah, I mean, I think at the time, like, when weightlifting was really blowing up, there was, like, it seemed like there was, like, 40 gyms in Sacramento. Yeah. There was a lot of very small gyms. You know, and, like, I think that bubble's kind of burst when it's kind of settled down a little bit. Like, the whole CrossFit thing's really still going on, but, and like small gyms are still a thing, but I think the dynamic is just a little bit different. Yeah.

We need different names for our lifts, you know, and powerlifting. Cause we just got like bench, squat, deadlift. You guys have the clean and jerk and the snatch. You should just add it.

I mean, that's enticing. Yeah. Well, clean and jerk and snatch in the same workout. Like, yeah. Sign me up for that

what is that like coincidentally that's all my weightlifters want to do like they they like i'm really trying to push like general strength assistance exercises like i'm having a bench like they're like this is bullshit they want to just they just want to snatch a clean drink i'm like yo guys like we could make our like treat yourself like a real, full athlete first, and then we could do... Treat yourself. Yeah, treat yourself. Right. Be a weightlifter, but be an athlete. Take care of your body.

Do stuff that brings up... Be jacked and tan, it sounds. Be jacked. Yeah. Weightlifters are better when they're jacked. I'm going to say that. When they have muscles behind it. Take, for instance, Joey.

She had never done a snatch or really a clean jerk before I got her. And because she was jacked and tan, her progress has been really good. Did you say jacked and tan or Jackie Chan? Oh, no. Sorry, I'm not going to go there. Boom. Yeah. It helps when people have muscle.

Yeah, general strength helps. When you're a sturdy person, you will be a weightlifter you know and you cannot get around that yeah it makes a big difference for powerlifting too i mean we've seen all kinds of athletes come into powerlifting and every time they have a background and they got some size on them right you know each and every time they're they're stronger i think people just maybe lose sight of the fact that a you know a bigger muscle oftentimes can be a stronger muscle right yeah absolutely you know and but like as a weightlifting coach like you're always trying to get people there as fast as you can but you cannot stay in peak condition year-round it's just like

that's not what the body was meant to do like by definition peaking for sport is not was as unnatural really so it's like just hang out there for a little bit but plan when you want to be there and then build up from your general phase to your specific phase it's almost like the majority of your training shouldn't be geared towards that it's a minority of your training should be geared towards peaking and focusing on that that that next that top end right right i mean well when we first met like i was very much in that phase where i was like i will only snatch a clean jerk and squat forever i've seen you guys lift i was like what is going on and like at the time guys miss lifts all the time what are they doing yeah i'm like and i was in that mode where i was like i only do this and you can make a lot of progress that way it could

just you could do you could make things a little bit better a little bit cleaner if you just you know round out round out all the things you're not good at. Yeah. And you also have, if you have a bunch of people that you're working with, there'll be like two or three survivors and then everybody will be like, yeah, that's the technique right there. Right. Right. And so like we don't have like, we don't have that filtering system where we get a bunch

of people and then like, you know, X amount of people just don't make it out. And then you get the people who are just biologically capable of handling that. You get a bunch of volunteers and then you get what you get and you make them, you bring them up to that level. So, but for me, like when I've, I got a certain point, the Olympic lifts stop being as helpful. You can't just snatch a clean jerk to get better. You have to start including other things. So like for me, like when I started doing like heavy deadlifting, I did some sumo deadlifts i was like oh shit these these are glutes i'm like yeah i have never felt these before i'm like i have spent my entire life without developing my

glutes whatsoever you know i'm like oh maybe that's a thing you know like maybe i should start worrying about all these other uh facets of strength we're not just myself but with all my athletes too yeah i remember uh dimitri cloak off you know he he was big on that just just being just being strong yeah and he would try to figure out you know what was wrong with someone's lift and you know a lot a lot of coaches just use a squat they're like hey it's like this is just an easier conversation for me to just tell you just to squat right and i, you're saying some of the same things. You know, utilize some assistance moves. You guys are not,

you guys are not responsible for a squat in competition. Right. But the squat can help build up some pure raw strength, right? Yeah, it's almost better

for like, right now we're in a phase where we're taking a step back from like, like let's not push the squats quite so much because we have built up a bunch of raw strength

this year. Like let's things, let's make things a little bit more specific. So I program front squats now based off of your clean max, which kind of helps things maintain the same amount of speed that you need instead of building up like an excess of strength. You tend to get really fired up and we see that, you know, quite a bit. Different lifters have different techniques. Yeah. So that's not really common with weightlifters, I found out. Usually, yeah.

Yeah, they're very level-headed, and I'm sort of like an emotional, fiery guy, you know? And I don't know. I just, I've tried to be different way. I've tried to lift other ways, and, like, that's just how I perform my best. Yeah. I get very fired up, so. What are you thinking about? Anything in particular, or just concentration?

It's mostly just like an elevated state. Maybe for a while, when you're making a lot of progress, I feel like it has to be because you have sort of a chip on your shoulder. Whether you put it there yourself or whether it's imaginary or whatever, you just sort of have that thing. It's definitely imaginary. No one cares. No one cares about your lifting. No one. And no one will ever remember what weights you actually lifted yeah

they will remember what it looked like and like i don't know maybe remember how stupid you look yeah you fell with it yeah you know that's yeah maybe like what you were wearing or something i don't know remember that time you fell and you hit your head on the other bar yeah you're gonna remember that i still see people nowadays and i'm like oh i remember when this happened to you you know like i like i don't say that you know you remember the bad shit yeah but like uh no one cares about your lifting guys and i um i had that chip on my shoulder for a long time i said i'm gonna show everybody how good of a lifter i am and i i feel like in a way that's why i never really found a true coach of my own because i wanted to do it my way i was like i wanted I wanted to show everybody, like, not just that I was good enough, but I could, like, I knew the right way to do it.

And at the time, like, it took me a long time to actually figure out what I think now is the right way to do it, you know. What or who was your coach? I had a few. I mostly had mentors. So my main mentor was Paul Doherty from Hassle Free Barbell Club. Him and his brother are football coaches at two different high schools and they they build up their program that way yeah that would be great like for me i'm like oh man like i could get all that like if you think about it you

get a couple hundred kids every new kids every year and you could just make them good football players because you know being strong is a good asset for football um and then you also get some really good lift weight weightlifters out of that. So some of the best lifters in the country now are from that program. But I'm not a football fan. I don't know a whole lot about sports in general. I just

like exercise. And you guys have I remember that school and that program, and I think maybe you might be part of this as well. You guys do a lot for a lot of the kids that they'll qualify for something. You guys make sure they have access to be able to go to some of these meets and stuff like that, right? Oh yeah, absolutely. That program really helps their athletes out, like getting involved in the sport.

That's really cool. I think I remember, recall a few stories where there was one of the younger kids he like never even been on a plane right and he didn't have you know he didn't have the dough for it or anything but uh you guys still or that program rather was uh still able to get him out to like the arnold classic or something like that to compete yeah and like how cool is it as a kid to like go to the arnold yeah like what it just i mean that could be a life-altering opportunity for somebody yeah like that's definitely like a really once-in-a-lifetime memorable thing to be able to go to something super weird like that, you know? How has some of those opportunities, you know, shaped you?

Like, just rubbing elbows with people that are better, rubbing elbows with people, like, you know, from different parts of the country and stuff like that, going to meets. Yeah. I mean, I'm less of a weightlifting fan nowadays. I just don't know who anybody is anymore because I'm I guess a little bit older and I don't really keep up with all that. You're working. Yeah. But it's kind of cool. I was on a bus

in Nationals that was in Peoria, Illinois and I saw Randy Strauss on the bus. He's a guy from Iron Mind. And I used to watch all those videos as a kid. I'm like, oh, that's the guy from the iron mind videos he's like that really monotone voice so i we eventually you know had a conversation i was like man this that was the coolest thing ever you know or i saw like dimitri klokop was just walking around uh u.s nationals one year he was just he's jacked he's he's jacked and he's really jacked he's's jacked. He's awesome. I was like, oh, I watch you on YouTube every single day.

So I've had moments like that where you just get to see all these people. Dmitry Klokov is crazy because he goes and does those seminars. And I don't know my numbers real well for Olympic lifting, but all I do know is that he would do a certain lift. And I remember Max Aida telling me, like, he's like, dude, I just went to a Dmitry Klokov seminar. And he lifted more weight in that seminar than anybody's lifted in the United States in, like, the last 20 years. I was like, oh, my God. And he's just doing demos.

And he does them, you know, for a a while it was like he was on tour. Right. Going nuts. He's going all over the world. I feel like that's like a lot, like a lot of people sign up for those types of seminars just to see that sort of type of thing in real life. You know. It's unbelievable to build that kind of strength. Why, I mean, what are some things that make the Olympic lifts so hard?

They, I guess, I mean, they kind of look hard, but they don't look that bad. But then you try them and you're like, wow, that's awful. Yeah. I mean, when you see them done right, you're like, all right, cool. You just put on your shoulders and you put above your head, you know, and like, that's really all you're doing. You get a bunch of momentum and you fling the thing over your head. Yeah.

Doesn't seem that bad. Pretty straightforward. There's just like, everybody's good at a few things, but no one is good at every single thing about weightlifting, which is what makes it sort of interesting you know you just try to round out all of your where you're deficient as much as you can and bring up you know like just use your your attributes as best as you can so like some people they squat the house you know some people have really good uh technique and they have really good overhead stability uh different people are are good at different things in weightlifting uh and so um for me like as a coach you're always like all right what are we all bad at you know what what

are we bad at like let's try to bring that up all together you know like so lifters are really sort of i mean they're doing the work but they're also like a product of like your training system you know which is sort of make what it makes it interesting because there's a lot of problem solving going on you know i think i would have gotten makes it interesting. There's a lot of problem solving going on, you know. I think I would have gotten bored with it a long time ago if it was just as simple as what it looks like, you know. You know, here at Super Training, it's like, you know, one guy will come up to me and be like, man, my left elbow is really killing me. And then, you know, a week later, another guy will be like, my left elbow is really

killing me. You know, it's like, it's all the same injuries. And even though, like, we all don't always do the same exact program, we don't all do the same thing, we're just around each other. Right. You know, and we see the exact setup every time. Right. And you just kind of end up, it gets to be tough.

Do you think it's important sometimes to get out, you know, for people that do want to be the best, that are trying to maybe get on the weightlifting circuit and improve, do you think it's important for them to pop into maybe other gyms just to change the environment a little bit? Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think it's important to shop around. For weightlifting, everybody wants to think that they have this secret sauce that no one else has. But we all pretty much know all the same stuff.

But we all communicate it in different ways and we all implement it in different ways so you need to find people that can communicate on the same terms as you use and do it uh you know with some sort of logic behind it and like you'll probably hang out there for a few years and then that your needs might change as a lifter maybe you just need to change the pace maybe you want a different environment. Maybe your team annoys you, whatever. Maybe just like your coach starts to annoy you after a while because you guys see each other every single day. That's fine.

For me, I think that that is the American weightlifting system. It's like this free market system where you get to shop around. We call it the shop around system. Right. And I think it's not a bad way to go about it. Yeah. For a while, you were training with Cal Strength a little bit too, right? Here and there?

I would visit. I was visiting like 2010 or so. I never made the commitment to like, I need to move there to like be a full-time lifter. I think for me, like that choice really solidified I'm going to be a coach, you know? Because like if you're a serious lifter, you go train with like the sharks, you know? Like you want to be a a coach, you know? Because, like, if you're a serious lifter, you go train with, like, the sharks, you know? Like, you want to be a shark yourself, you know? I think I would have made a few different decisions if I truly believed that I could be the best.

Right. Yeah, if you thought you could maybe excel the way that you wanted to. Do you still compete often? I do, I do. I'm actually better than I used to be, which is kind of cool. I'm 31 now. I've been competing since I was 18. Is 31 old for Olympic lifting? Yeah, it's getting

there. Yeah. I mean, I feel like a dinosaur now. I go to national meets and I got, where did all you guys come from? A lot of people don't hang around weightlifting for very long, right? I mean, career wise, like in terms of, them lifting and being competitive. Yeah, nowadays, usually people who rise up quickly, they'll kind of hit that wall that, like, we all sort of went through, like, the season people went through. And, like, they'll just stop doing it because, like, they have, like, a regular life that's probably better than weightlifting. I don't know. How has your body composition played into all this? Because I think maybe when we first met or there was some, you had some sort of fat period. Oh, yeah. I've had many myself.

Oh, yeah. You were definitely a lot heavier. What, 60 pounds heavier maybe? I mean, I was close to 300 pounds at one point. I love it. That's really good news. Yeah, a couple points. I mean, for me,

if I take a deep breath of air, I'll gain five pounds. That's just kind of where I'm at. Husky motherfucker. You just can't help it. Yeah, I got the thick boy jeans. I don't know. But I'm actually lighter

than when I started. Keep your short, choppy breaths. Yeah. I'm lighter than when I started weightlifting. What do you weigh nowadays? I compete as a 94. I walk around than when I started weightlifting. What do you weigh nowadays? I compete as a 94. I walk around right around 100 kilos, which is like 220 pounds around there.

Yeah, that's 80 LBs right there. Yeah, yeah. So I feel really good at this weight. Are you stronger now than you were when you were 300? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I haven't, like, my best back squat was over 600 as a fat boy. But really, I don't, like, my best back squat was over 600 as a fat boy, but really I don't need that much. But my Olympic lifts themselves are better than when I was fatter.

Right. I think that I could handle my big lifts more often as a fatty, but I just, I'm a lot more competitive now, and I am a better lifter now than when I was fat. And I think for a while I convinced myself that being fat was for the sport. You know, I was like, oh, God, a while, I convinced myself that being fat was for the sport. You know, I was like, oh, I gotta eat this peanut butter and extras,

six eggs every day and bacon to be on quite a weight lifter. And I was just fat. That's not true? No, I was just fat. Yeah, regular fat. The hell are we doing? Just looking down at your belly, you're like, oh my God, what did I do?

What did I do to myself? I was just trying to be strong. Do you miss any of that strength at all? It was, it's kind of nice that you'd be able to just stack red plates miss any of that strength at all uh it was it's kind of nice that you'll be able to stack red plates on and just like just really mess it up i would back squat like a lot like just just i would just tear it up with the back squat for sure like as a fat guy but then there's all the toilets that you're tearing up too you know what like i got to the point where i would wear those sperry slip-ons just specifically so i wouldn't have to tie my

shoes you know just like i just kind of just shove my fat foot in there. Yeah, at that point, everything's about being fat. Yeah, yeah. Everything's about just kind of like picking it, choosing the easy way with everything. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm enjoying life a lot better now as a regular weight. So you're still mixing in some powerlifting,

watching some video of you doing a sumo deadlift. Yeah, I did a powerlifting meet in 2016 just because some of my lifters were interested in it. I was like, well, I'm not going to tell people how to do this if I've never done it before. Like, that's just wrong. That's objectively wrong, you know. So I was like, well, hey, I'll compete with you guys and we'll just see what it's all about. So I did one at Santa Cruz Strength in 2016. And it turns out it was a lot of fun.

Powerlifters are really nice people. And the contest was just, I don't know, it was just a really refreshing experience to do that. I was really into it. Yeah, it's kind of fun too because it's not like, you know, it's not necessarily 100% your thing. So you can have a slightly different attitude going in. Whereas, you know, Olympic lifting, it is your thing.

You are everybody's coach. And your shit better be together. Otherwise, you know, Olympic lifting, it is your thing. You are everybody's coach. And, like, your shit better be together. Otherwise, people are going to be like, what? Yeah. So, like, as I've done, like, as weightlifting has become more kind of like a job, like, it's become less fun for me. So, like, when I do it, like, it's this very serious thing now. So, I'm always searching for, like, different things to do.

So, I did powerlifting in 2016. I did just, like, I did a grip strength arm lifting thing. So I'm into that now, which is like my fun little side thing. I don't know. It's kind of weird. Yeah. Well, grip stuff is really weird, but it's also just extremely challenging. It's hard. It's super challenging. I thought, I thought I'd be like really good at it. How'd you do with the Shaw challenge? You ever mess with that? What is that? Brian Shaw challenge where he's, he's picking up the hub of the 45, and then he had, what, he had four five-pound plates around it

or something like that? Something crazy. On the hub, I have done 22 and a half kilos on the hub, official. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure. I want to say that Brian Shaw, I mean, he's a madman, you know. Yeah.

But I want to say he picked up,s in each hand that had weights stacked on. It was pretty crazy. But we had one of our guys here that could do it pretty good. Damon Thurman, he's an airplane mechanic. And so because he wrenches those giant ass wrenches, he's got really good grip strength. Here you are lifting up some stuff. The Rolling Thunder. The Rolling Thunder.

Whenever I bring that thing out and call it the Rolling Thunder, everyone thinks I'm making up some stuff. The Rolling Thunder. The Rolling Thunder. Whenever I bring that thing out and call it the Rolling Thunder, everyone thinks I'm making up the name. No, yeah, yeah. They have to have weird names. They have to have weird names. That shit hurts just to try to... It does hurt, and it's demoralizing.

It's like, why can't I hold on? It doesn't make sense. Yeah, you're working with such small weights by comparison, but you're like, oh, man. Then you see guys who are really good, and they're handling significant loads loads have you ever seen uh karil serkev do that movement before he's uh he's got the strongest bench press uh in in the history of powerlifting with a 738 pound bench and it's got like a world record weights on there and he

walks over to it and picks it up with his right. And he puts it down. And then he picks it up with his left. And he's like, hmm, shit. Just a savage. What do you think the biggest difference is between the communities in weightlifting versus powerlifting? So I still go to powerlifting meets to coach and stuff. And they're huge. And I had no idea it was such a big thing.

I don't mean to offend anybody. But, like, I had no idea. I thought that you get so wrapped up in your strength world that you have no idea, like, how many people are involved in, like, different parts of it. So I went to a powerlifting meet recently. And there was, like, a lot of people there. And they were all, like, super friendly. And it was just, like like it was uh i don't know it's kind of cool like as a spectator you know sort of like a i'm not like ever going to

be really part of the parallel community uh i was going to be sort of like an outsider it's always not to us buddy oh well am i am i in now you're always a friend of super trainer yeah um it's kind of cool to see different strength communities, like just how they work. Yeah. I, as an identifiable difference, I don't know if people are people, there's always going to be, I'm sure there's drama on some levels and parallel thing. I don't know. Probably just more fat people. You know, maybe, maybe more fat people.

Yeah. There's fat people everywhere. Yeah. So you're, uh, talk to me about your first competition. You're the first time you competed. What was that like? The first time that you got into Olympic lifting? My first meet was November of 2005, and I was 18.

I had been competing on my team that I was the president of and pretty much the only member for three months. And my best snatch was 77 kilos. My best clean and jerk was 106 kilos. And I thought I was pretty good because at the clean jerk was 106 kilos. And I thought I was pretty good because at the time there was nothing on YouTube. There was no Instagram. I was like, oh, man, I'm going to go. I'm going to smash everybody.

Yeah, yeah. So I went and those are pitiful weights. And then you see people who are doing moderate weight, like snatching 120, clean jerk 140. You're like, oh, that's a real weightlifter you know and like now that's like j session you know and like the it was a little bit easier coming up as a weightlifter at the time because there was nothing to compare yourself to you know for me the first time i clean jerk 120 kilos i legitimately thought i was one of the strongest people in

california just because i didn't know any better like like ignorance is bliss you know like what a much better existence oh man it was so those were the days right it was so much fun and now like now I'm always constantly just trying to bring up my athletes because they're just like oh I'm just never gonna be good coach you know so and so's already doing this much and you know I'm like you know like just just relax and you see these those uh Chinese lifters and some of the eastern block lifters and they're just like you know, I'm like, yo, like, just relax. You see those Chinese lifters and some of the Eastern Bloc lifters, and they're just like, you know, they're banging out, you know, 555 on a squat for five reps, and they weigh, you know, a buck 98 or something.

It's demoralizing. Yeah, how about just don't look at that? Yeah, don't watch it. And it's not going to change how much you're going to do. Like, if you see, like, some Chinese dude who weighs half your size banging out a bunch of squats, like, it's not going to change how you're going to lift. Like, if you see, like, some Chinese dude who weighs half your size banging out a bunch of squats, like, it's not going to change how you're going to lift.

So just focus on you, you know? It's hard to do nowadays just because everything is in your face. Well, it really does throw you off because then you're like,

are they on drugs? Should I be doing those? Like, how, you know, and then how do they, people are drug tested, so how do you make,

how do you pass the test? I feel like the temptation is greater nowadays just because it's all in your face and like, it just seems like that's like people will go take that route earlier. Right. Yeah.

It is hard to make sense of how strong the other countries are. What's your kind of theory? I've heard different people say different things. But is it just because in the United States we're occupied with a lot of other sports and occupied with other things? Well, the sport of weightlifting is really kind of in this trans transitional period right now and like i'm not really interested in all the weightlifting politics going on but like the sport is like we're gonna get new weight classes this year uh i think because to like kind of wipe records because of all like the positive

tests going on uh the when i was introduced to weightlifting the culture that was uh presented to me was that the u.s doesn't do well because we're not allowed to use the good stuff and other countries are. They do their own testing and stuff. I was like, chill. I didn't really care. For me, I never looked beyond it because I was like, I'm never going to get to that point. Let's just focus on what i'm doing you know right but now like every male lifter is obsessed with you know whatever ilia

illin's doing you know it's just like they're they're everything he does like people are just like you know like so it's like it's the culture is definitely different and i don't know what weightlifting is going to look like in a few years just because the testing standards are also changing. So it's an exciting time, I guess, for the sport. You can also, you know, things are just so different now. You could just be jacked and just lift on Instagram. Yeah, people just not, they don't compete. And they're just like, oh, did you see what so-and-so did on Instagram?

I'm like, no, I don't care, dude. Like, I care about what you're doing today. Like, go warm up, you know? Yeah, shut up. You got a lot of work to do. You got a lot of sets to get through. What I noticed about Olympic lifting is people are able to get a tremendous amount of work done in a short period of time. Well, at least some.

But is that part of the goal? Like, for you as a coach, are you trying to get people, not rush people through, but, um, you know, you're going through a back squat, front squat, and then there might be drills and there might be like four or five other things. Right. And so, uh, in powerlifting, somebody might bench press for like 45 minutes or, you know, a half an hour, these giant rest periods. And, uh And we train in these kind of large groups and there's a lot of like bullshitting going on. So it might be like 45 minutes of not a whole lot going on, but it's the warmup and the bench workout included.

And then, you know, 30, 40 minutes of accessory work or something like that. Right. I remember that being difficult for me when I would train with you guys, like back in the day. I'd be like, hey, can I just hop in on squats today I'm big all right cool like and then I'd be waiting like seven minutes before my next set I'm like oh can I take that again I just I gotta re-warm up you know for weightlifting you want the ideal rest period is like one to

three minutes depending on like you know what you're doing oh yeah your contest is that way too yeah yeah so like this is fast you kind of want to keep your rest periods similar to what you'll have in a competition, which is pretty important. You time out your lifts, warming up to your opening attempts. Like, I go, my lifter takes a lift every three attempts that happen on the platform. Sometimes it doesn't quite work out that way, but you want about that amount of rest time. And different coaches will mess with each other in the background by, like, changing the order of things or this or that.

Kind of makes it exciting. It's kind kind of like gambling but with other people's success you know um i think that's sort of one of the like you want to keep things a little bit more specific to what the contest looks like i mean if you think about the ideal uh workout is just the snatch a clean trick because that's the most specific thing you know but like we said before you can't just do that year round you have to build up your absolute strength this and that um but you kind of want to keep your rest periods similar to that so for me personally i'm always struggling because like i want people to like you know i have people who are at work all day sitting and then they want to come and do like this really intense thing well it's like it kind of there's there's these steps in place that should

happen before you go snatch like i always want people to be sweating before they go even step onto a platform yeah there's a like a protocol yeah do they do that no they just throw their shoes on and ignorantly just start throwing the weights around so i'm just like i'm becoming more strict nowadays i'm like yo guys like how about prep your lifts with like some accessory stuff beforehand before we try to lift to maximum how about that you know it sort of makes sense to me, you know. Let it go, coach. Tell them. Tell them what's up. Yeah. Anyway,

that's just, that's just, you know. Some of the guys are listening right now and girls are like, oh man, I have to fuck. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. I mean, lifting coach, I mean, we all have to, we all have that struggle. You know,

all they want to do is just slam bars and make PRs, you know, that's all they care about. So. That's the fun stuff. That is the fun stuff. You know,

it's just like, you don't, you know, you can't get that. You gotta rub my leg on this piece of foam. This is stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Like how about stretch guy? You know, how about do something like that? Yeah. Well, what ends up happening, you know, that the, uh, the downside of not doing those things, right. Is that the athlete will come to you and they're like, my knee capes caving in on this. And you're like, we've gone over this 87

times. I'm'm gonna slice your throat right now because this is the end of this conversation we're not talking like this anymore yeah i'm like well did you use your mark bell slingshot today guy no see i maybe did some stuff i'm like oh okay all right uh get out every one of your lifters like fuck he's talking about me yeah like they actually do do that sometimes. I'll post something and no one

never talks to me but they'll talk to each other like, who's he talking about? I'm like, I'm talking to everybody. Oh shit, he's mad today.

The guy that feels the guiltiest is going to be weird around you all day. I'm going to get like a text tonight and be like, yo, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, I'll never do it again. Why in Olympic lifting it appears in most cases seems like people lift by themselves? Do they? I don't know. I mean, it looks like

there's like a lot of barbells set up and it looks like people could very easily lift with each other. But is it because the bar's on the ground? Yeah. Because like a deadlift sometimes is not like user-friendly. You know, a squat or bench, the weights bar is on the ground? Because a deadlift is sometimes not user-friendly. A squat or bench, the weights are elevated off the ground already,

and it's easy to... Yeah, maybe. That's another one of those things that maybe the culture has shifted. So the goal of my gym is to make sure the way that I see weightlifting survives. So when I was growing up weightlifting, we had a concrete room with six platforms, and everybody shared. There was four people on a platform and it was kind of like you were stuck right next to each other so it seemed like more of like you were into what each other's doing everybody was doing the same

thing and that's how i see it it should be done you know is that the way that other people do it nowadays i i don't really know but that's the only way i've ever i mean even just seeing those old training hall videos it's like there's this platform after platform. Yeah. And you just see, like, in frame, you know, the camera would just be fixed. And, like, in frame, you'd see a couple guys lifting, but they weren't even on the same platform as each other. Yeah.

I don't know. I guess maybe, like, I've never done it that way that I've never been attracted to doing it that way, you know? Yeah, it seemed like it would suck. Yeah, it's boring. It's boring. If you think about, like, if you're just there by yourself, no one talking to you, like, just doing the activity, like if you think about like if you're just there by yourself no one talking to you like just doing the activity like all right like you're working out and stuff but like it can get kind of bland after a while so i guess the other thing to

consider is like what i'm referring to and seeing some of those videos those are professional athletes right that's you know you kind of sometimes you lose sight of like what you're watching right and uh those guys are in different countries and those guys are treated differently and they get paid and it's, uh, it's, it's kind of completely different thing. Yeah. I mean, this is like, and people do this as a social thing too, you know? And like, that's, you know, that's why fitness has become a thing nowadays as opposed to like just something you had to do.

Why don't they ever use a deadlift jack in Olympic lifting? I mean, if I could afford one, maybe I'd buy one. But what I already have is a one-kilo plate where I roll the plates on top of it. That always works really well. That actually is really easy and efficient. But I always just see lifters, they just kind of grab the weight and just try to rest. Yeah, if you don't know about the kilo trick, you just,

you need to learn. It will make your life a lot easier. Yeah. Save your, it'll save your lower back. How do you know that like to get through like a checklist, you know, we're talking about like,

you know, sometimes being influenced by what somebody else does. So like, let's just say there's a really good lifter right now. And he, he or she, you know, uses squats often to get a big, uh, to get a big PR on the platform. Um, what, what's, what's your barometer for some of these athletes? Like, um,

if somebody, you know, is not able to, uh, do a four or five squat or something like that, um, there might be one guy who can't squat 405. There's another guy who can squat 555. But for some reason, the guy that squats 405 is totally fine with his Olympic lifts. You know, how do you kind of like think, you know, do we need to check that box off for this person? Do they need to be stronger at it? And is there like a kind of like a cutoff point of where some people should be at? Yeah. I mean, as like when I'm coaching, like I sort of like, I am keeping

track of where we're at, like with like our strength and in terms of what we do on the platform. And more often than not, like, since we're all doing the same thing that like the, the percentages of that remain relatively the same. I mean, you know, there are certain people who I have who are just like, are a lot stronger than what they're doing right now, but they are also like, maybe they learn, they're just still learning the lifts or something like that. So,

so do you, uh, kind of look at it like, uh, Hey, so-and-so does, uh, you know,

they're, they're clean is, uh, uh, you know, I don't know, 60% of their back squat or something. Do you look at those numbers?

Yeah, I'm a little bit more like, so I'll have a newer lifter who says, you know, well, I'll tell them to put more weight on the bar because what they're doing looks easy. They don't even know what hard is yet. They don't even know what it is because they've never, their percentages are so low compared to their absolute strength levels. So I program for the people who are at that level and then people who, and when it becomes important and the people who are still coming up, you just, there's still room, a lot of room for play in there.

You know, when it, when it comes to the lifts, really. That makes, that makes a lot of sense. When it comes to your, your diet, you know, how were you able to lose all this weight? I mean, you said, you said you lost 80 pounds. Stress. Just got into a panic. 80 pounds is a lot and also you've gotten stronger but I think the 80 pounds is also over a long period of time. I've been working with

a meal prep company a long time. I'm not going to cook my healthy meals. I'm not going to do it. I would buy it. I'm not going to cook my healthy meals. I'm not going to do it. I would buy it, but I'm not going to cook it myself. So it's nice to have a meal prep company like that that just makes it easy on me. For me, I just started to lose weight. That's our boy Nico, right? Yeah, Nico.

Shout out to Nico Lasagna, I like to call him. What up, buddy? For me, I just started to lose weight. I'm like, maybe I should make this a thing. Like, I'm thinking about opening up my own business. Like, I feel like I would do better in fitness if I actually, like, looked, like, not so fat, you know. So I started to, like, make it a goal to start losing weight. And I started, you know, like, once you start losing weight, you get a little bit of momentum.

It feels good. You feel like your old self again. That sort of becomes more of the goal. And, like, I thought that I would lose a lot of strength. And, like, maybe I did for a while. Like, my just squats and raw stuff, raw strength levels weren't quite there. But my Olympic lifts never really suffered, really. You know, a weird thing when I was losing weight and, well, still, but, you know,

when I was first starting to come down, the thing was like the squat yeah um well i guess even somewhat of the pull too the deadlift was a little weird but the squat especially and uh even just trying to like find where my strength was going to come from within like putting on a belt right you know like i i try to like push against it and i didn't have that chub there anymore yeah yeah and i didn't have like that the cushion for the pushing sort of you know right right like even now when i i'll i'll diet down to a 94 kilos and i'll do a little water cut and i'll get to the last hole in my belt and like it just like it's basically like bone on belt at that point i'm like oh man this feels a little bit different yeah and i've had lifters in the past come to me and they're like man i don't i don't think I even know how to use a belt.

And I'm like, what do you mean you don't know how to use a belt? You just put it on tight and you just go. And that's how it works when you got a lot of body fat. Yeah, yeah. And these are all questions that you don't have to think about until you start helping other people. You're like, what do you mean you don't know how to put a belt on? Or what do you mean what direction are your elbows pointing? Or a girl will be like, oh, the belt's digging into my ribs because their torsos are usually

kind of short. Yeah, yeah. Stuff like that just sort of comes up. You're like, your ribs? Why is it digging in your ribs? Eat his cheeseburger. Or push into your belt. I don't understand what you're talking about, sir. Yeah, what am I supposed to push? Yeah, different stuff like that comes up. I try to

introduce belts and stuff gradually. If people are brand new. Like Joey, she doesn't need a belt yet because she squats and deadlifts so much and she's lifting not that much compared to that. So she's going to go without that for a while and then it just sort of comes when it comes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, use as needed is the way I would kind of prescribe it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, as needed. And some people go their entire lifting careers without a belt. I'm not that cool, but some people of prescribe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really as needed. And some people, some people go their entire lifting careers without a belt. You know, like I'm, I'm not that cool, but like some people do it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. What do you do other than, uh, you know, you probably can't have the meal prep meals 24 seven. So what are the changes did you make? Uh, do you like to drink or anything like that? You like to eat candy or what's your, I mean, I still like to drink. Uh, I don't, I don. I don't eat a lot of candy anymore. My sweet tooth

kind of went away, really. That's a big thing to try to kill. That's a big one. For me, I'll look at something really nice and sweet to eat. I'm like, oh man, that looks pretty good, but there's always that thing in the back of your mind now.

I just can't get rid of that, really. It doesn't fit. It doesn't fit in with of your mind now. And like, I just can't get rid of that really. So it doesn't fit. Yeah. It doesn't fit. Yeah. And like, really like I like certain things that are actually are healthy for you. Like poke,

like there's a bunch of poke places around town. Tastes amazing. Oh man. It's so good. And you can't beat that value for that, that fish. I think that's something that we forget is how good healthy food tastes for you. I think we have this like a misconception in our head that it's always going to

taste like shit. Right, right. I mean, sometimes if you go like chicken breast, sometimes that's not great, but steak and rice or a burger, or I mean,

they're high in protein, they're sometimes high in fat, and it can be really flavorful. Right. It tastes really good. Right. For me now, when I want to splurge,

it will be like an actual nice meal. You know, something that I would go out to eat, and eat a really nice, you know, whatever I'm in the mood for. Right. And you just maybe crush a lot of calories, but it's not anything. Yeah. It's like it's no big deal. Like, all right. You had like a big dinner, you know, maybe a few drinks, like no big deal. Like you just go back to your what your routine is during the week. We had a question that popped up on the podcast recently, and we didn't resolve it, really. I don't think we got through it, right?

Are we talking about cats? Well, there's that, too. Which one are you talking about? About the sandwich. Dude. Are you ready for this one? Okay. I'll let Mark handle it, though.

I think you should. You want me to handle it? Yeah. You have your pen and paper ready, because you're going to have to do a lot of math. I'm ready. Don't forget to carry the two. You're going to have to write down the whole formula. People carry the one, but you've got to carry the two.

Okay. Is a hot dog considered a sandwich? Sandwich originally was a place, or it was a way to transport meat into your hands without using a fork, if you think about it. That's the intention. It's a transport system. It's a transport system. I'm listening. That's what it is. I like where this is going.

If you think about a sandwich as a transport system, you don't necessarily need two pieces of bread. You could use one piece of bread. If you make a half peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you only use one piece of bread, which sometimes you do. It's still a sandwich. Because you broke as a joke. Sometimes you're broke. You do the old

rollover. No shame in that. By that definition, a bun is still considered a sandwich casing. Even though it's connected. Even though it's connected. That part is taken care of. From there, you could just chop up your sausage or whatever

and have that be a sandwich. You could put whatever you want in the sandwich. So by the terms that I'm going on, a hot dog can be considered a sandwich. Wow. Shit. Man, you got some strong beliefs. Yeah. I mean, like if you go by those terms, like once your terms change, then you have to alter your definition of what it is. Does this have to do with your like religious beliefs, political background?

I just like. Where do you think this came from i just like i have a strong stance my for me i have to have a reason why i think something so i'm programmed to do that way now like before coaching all that so like what are my terms like my terms are what is the purpose of the sandwich what are and what are the contents you know what it was the idea behind the sandwich to begin with so my so a hot dog would fulfill that if we're going by the terms that I posted. You know, if we had said, well, it can't be a dog style, like encased in, you know, intestine sort of thing. We can't have that. Then your definition of a sandwich would have to change.

How many ingredients are required for it to qualify as like a good amount of, uh, not stuffing, but you know what I mean? Like the, the centerpiece. Uh, the centerpiece should be the meat, unless you're a vegetarian, that's fine too. You know, uh, the centerpiece should be the, the protein, but like, uh, obviously for like a really good sandwich. Uh, I mean, sometimes simple sandwiches are good. The one thing you cannot have is a dry sandwich.

I'm against dry sandwiches. Can't have a dry sandwich. Not a good sandwich. It's got to have something on there. It's got to have something on there. If you're going to have meat only on the sandwich, there better be some juice, some au jus, something.

There better be some sort of lubricant. Yeah, you need some lubricant for the bread. You can't have dry bread and dry meat. Can't do it. Not a good sandwich.

Mustard, ranch, mayonnaise, something. Whatever it is, there needs to be some sort of lubrication system for the sandwich. What if you just went with cheese?

Because cheese kind of melts it. Cheese kind of lubricates it up a little bit i mean it depends on the cheese really yeah i mean you could go like just meet some sort of havarti something like that you know something like really like like nice and uh you know uh you know you know gooey you know yeah some gouda you can go like a gouda and apple really or triple brie on a sandwich and almost died. That sounds good. Steak sandwiches aren't great. There's got to be you got to be able to dip them.

Some au jus. There needs to be juice in there. You have to dip it because otherwise the consistency is off. The meat is tough and the bread is soft and then then you're pulling on it. You're tearing through it. You feel like a goddamn dinosaur tearing through some meat.

It has to be done correctly, for sure. Are you a cat guy? Yeah. I didn't know I liked cats until I moved in with a person who had a cat, and then this cat was dope, so now I'm a cat person. Nice.

Do you know exactly how many ways there are to skin a cat? Yeah, we hear people say it all the time. It just keeps coming up. And so we have to, we figure you're an expert. I'm saying there's many ways. Hey, how do you coach your weightlifters? Oh, there's tons of ways to skin a cat.

So I've never hunted before. I'd like to go at some point. But I'm assuming there's only one way to butcher a thing that you kill right so i mean maybe there's different i don't i'm pretty ignorant on the subject yeah so are we yeah yeah cat you know you could do it the old-fashioned way with uh a little knife do you know danny castillo oh yeah yeah he was saying the other day that every chick in midtown has a cat do you think that's true uh maybe i mean if she doesntown has a cat. Do you think that's true? I mean, if she doesn't have a cat, she's got like a cactus or something.

She's got like a, I don't know, like a flower or something, like some sort of life. So you think it's true that every chick in Midtown has something they need to take care of like that? I mean, I think most people that live in Midtown have like this sort of thing, that sort of thing. I got a mustache.

Some people got a cat. Some people got flowers and stuff. I don't know. Some people. When I first met you, I remember the thing that stood out the most because we had our power thing group, and you came in. You were jacked and had some big wheels, had some big legs, and we're like, oh, who's this guy?

But your pants were very, very tight. Yeah, yeah. Do you still have really super tight pants going? They've only gotten tighter. Really? I'll go back. How are those things holding up? Well, they're actually, so I buy only stretchy jeans.

If you're not wearing stretchy jeans in 2018, just get out. You know, just like don't. Why? Why do that to yourself? Those jeans were hurting, though, back in the day when you were three bills. Sometimes I'll switch it up. I have a pair of overalls I'll just wear just because. They're just super baggy

just because sometimes you just want to feel that way. I don't know. But I'm still pretty happy with the tight jeans. Have you ever Olympic lifted in the overalls? Sometimes. I got a pair of cut-off shorts. You know, you could do, you know, some Olympic lifts, you know.

Yeah, I'll do more. As I get older and, like, I'll just do my workouts in, like, some jeans and some boots. Especially, like, arm lifting, too. Like, that's a jeans and boots. How about, yeah, boots. Yeah, like, work boots will work. Oh, yeah. You ever try cowboy boots?

Yeah, I got a pair. Well, they're not technically cowboy, but they're, like, they're called engineer boots. I went through, like, a boot phase where I got, like, I had one ever try cowboy boots? Yeah, I got a pair. Well, they're not technically cowboy, but they're called engineer boots. I went through a boot phase where I got one pair of fry boots I'm super proud of. Cowboy boots would really work, and they'd be super comfortable for squats and stuff. I think I need a pair of super pointy cowboy boots. How about we go cowboy boots, but you go old school singlet, the one that went all the way up into the crotch that didn't have any legs on it. Remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That would be a good look. I think I need to compete in one of those really high cut singlets before I stop, really. I think actually the older I get, the higher cut the singlet should get, really. Remember, you ever see the ones that Alexia used to wear? Nips exposed. Holy.

Nips exposed. Yeah, what's the point in that singlet? I mean, there's really not a whole lot there. I mean, that's kind of like a lingerie, really. Aerodynamic? It's just there for a little extra flair there. I mean, that's kind of like lingerie, really. Aerodynamic? It's just there for a little extra flair. Well, because, you know, like a singlet, you know, it seems like it's kind of meant to cover up some skin in a certain way. Right.

But his, like, deliberately went inside the nipples and then back out. Maybe he was just so big, it just sort of pushed it that way. You know, I don't know. Like, sometimes you... I think it's something like 72 world records, though, so it worked for him. It definitely worked. I'm not opposed to trying it out. Who's your favorite Olympic lifter that you've seen? Somebody that influenced

you that got you fired up? Favorite Olympic lifter? Did I have to have met him? No, it doesn't matter. One of my first weightlifting heroes was Zlatan Vanev. I have this Iron Mind video that I will always make. My lifters watch where he's just in the training hall.

And it's like this Bulgarian training hall, like broken windows, like super cold in there. And he's just getting after it, like missing a bunch of times, like classic Bulgarian, like just like just maxing out. Like there were like a few days out before, like I forget, like there were like a week out before World Championship. He's just like maxing out like two days in a row, like with like theseing out. Like, they were, like, a few days out before, like, I forget, like, they were, like, a week out before World Championship. He's just, like, maxing out, like, two days in a row, like, with, like, these huge lifts, you know. He was, like, one of my first weightlifting heroes. Did he ever actually make the lift? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, he did, like, a bunch of, like, really great stuff. Yeah. I don't know. He did, like, a bunch of stuff. Somebody American, Tommy Kono. I met him a few times. He's a Sacramento guy. I met him in a garage in like 2005 passed away yeah you know a couple years ago yeah i have i have a i

have a drawing i did of him behind my desk sort of like a shrine uh of tommy cono uh he's an important character for american weightlifting i think yeah think. Did he win a medal? I mean, it was a million years ago. Yeah, it was a million years ago. He was almost 100 years old. He won a couple Olympics and some world championships and stuff. What's the furthest that you ever reached

in Olympic lifting? I'm an A-session national lifter now, which is pretty good. It's pretty good. Uh, I, I never really got like,

I think I had, no, I got a collegiate, a medal at a collegiate nationals one year, uh, which is fine. And then, I got a medal last year at the American open series,

but like that thing is, it's like, it's a national meet, but like, really is it though? Like it's, I don't, I think they're sort of formulating what they want it to be, but

that was one of my best ever performances this last year. It's competitive, huh? Oh, yeah. It's only gotten more competitive because of just a bunch of freaks. More and more real athletes getting involved. I know, it's weird. Stay the hell out of this thing. Yeah, it's like the pool's gotten so much greater. It used

to be just a little bit more weird, like a lot more guys like me walking around. What have you thought of CrossFit? It seems like it's had a tremendous impact on weightlifting. It's great. It introduces people to the lifts, and then the people that want to get into it seriously come to people like me.

The thing about it is there's enough for everybody for weightlifting. I only want a certain amount of people in my gym. I teach the lifts a certain way. If you don don't like it you can leave and go somewhere else you got it all wrong there's there's only so much success out there and you gotta afford all of it to yourself yeah yeah just keep it keep it all in tight yeah so you know i my situation's pretty good right now and like i just i don't think i've ever been more myself or if we're being honest here like happy you know so it took a long time to get what i have it's just like now i need to find motivation for the next step because like you just get sort of content and

like you just you're kind of like if you don't have something to work for then why be alive you know you know happiness is a is a like simple but yet complicated thing, you know, to kind of figure out. And sometimes I think it's good if people just take inventory of what makes them happy. Right. Like when you go to do something and you're like, shit, that was fun. You should keep track of that. Like what was that? Was that going to see a movie with a friend? Right. Was it exercising? Was it going for a walk? Right. Whatever it was was because that's you the only way to be successful is to have progress right right and and you can't really have progress unless you do something for a long time right and the only way to do something for

a long time is to be interested in it in the first place yeah and for it to give you some satisfaction some satisfaction and make you happy in some way or fulfilled in some way. And so all these things are kind of like intertwined and interconnected. And if you're not paying attention to it, then you're really missing out. Yeah. Yeah. And I think for me, like my motivation for weightlifting, for example, has changed quite a bit. And one thing I found out about myself, I'm like, oh, maybe I'm not as independent as I used to be.

Maybe I really depend on my group. Maybe like that's what makes me happy for weightlifting now it's like having my group showing them how to do things and then like then that contributes to my own thing as a weightlifter myself you know like I'm like oh I didn't even really consider that until like recently you know a lot of people don't recognize that uh when they do stuff for other people it's really truly honestly for themselves yeah which is fine yeah but that's that's what's happening that's what it is when you uh when somebody's sick and you call them to see how they're doing yeah it's for your own peace of mind you know you're like i'm gonna call so-and-so see how you know i'm gonna check up check up on him see how he is with that shoulder injury or whatever it is right yeah uh you go see visit

somebody in the hospital it's kind of i'm gonna go visit my dad in the hospital. You know, he, he really needs me. It's like, you really need to go there for yourself, but it all, it's all positive and it helps everybody. Right. And it helps move the needle for everybody. Yeah. But, you know, coaching people can be, uh, really satisfying. And, uh, I've seen, you know, a lot of, a lot of your athletes over the years and i just remember um there was a few people that you had that you know they didn't look like they were olympic weightlifters you know older people that you're like man like somebody got this person to do a clean or snatch yeah um do you think you can get anybody to do one?

There's kind of that debate on abs. People are like, can anybody have abs? Yeah, I mean, it really depends on what level you're looking at. For someone who's never lifted a weight in their entire life, and maybe they're a little bit older, and maybe they sit at a desk all day, and this and that. It really depends on how far they want to go. For me, my screening process has changed a little bit over the years.

It's still simple, but I make everybody go through certain steps before we introduce certain things. I think that's an important thing for weightlifting. I feel like not everybody should just learn how to do this snatch clean jerk right off the bat. I think if someone pays me for a one-on-one session, I can get them to hang snatch in that, in that session. I can do it. You know, it's just like, should we? Well, maybe not.

Let's maybe like work on different corrective exercises for like 45 minutes, you know, how about like some mobility stuff? I think that that is all related to weightlifting coaching. So yeah, maybe somebody doesn't have the ability to squat at all. Yeah. Yeah. And if they don't have the ability to squat, maybe the other lifts are going to be hard. If you can't squat the barbell and you can't raise your arms above your head,

we shouldn't be throwing weights around. There are still people who have non-functioning shoulders who refuse to take care of that. You still make it to a pretty good level in weightlifting. Don't talk about my shoulders that way. I'm very, very easily, very easily offended. You're doing all right with the overhead press. Was that yesterday? It wasn't too bad. No, you're fine. What has a lifting done for you, uh, personally, like on just a personal development? I mean, it gave me a sense of identity for a long time and everybody needs to feel good at

something. Especially in like your like your your 20s, like your 20s, like a super like turbulent time. You know, you need to have something you can really grab on to. You know, it's a weird time. It's weird. It's weird. I like being my 30s way better so far. It's it's pretty it's pretty cool. Getting old. Yeah, dude. It's weird. I still feel like I'm in my 20s, but whatever. It gave me something that to i could identify with like i am a weightlifter you know i would go to parties in college people ask what you were i'm a weightlifter like oh how's wrestling going weightlifting it's a weightlifter you know so it's like it gave me that it gave me something to work for uh it kept

me out of trouble really um i need some sort of structure in my life because everybody needs to be kept in check somehow. You know, maybe you don't go out every night because you got training the next day. You know, maybe this, you know, I think it really helped me, you know, stay out of trouble and get through my 20s like in one piece, you know.

You went head to head with Matt Frazier at one point, the CrossFit Games champ? Or lifted in the same meet or something? I remember meeting him. I remember meeting him. I don't know if he remembers that, but I remember meeting a lot of these people, and it was just like one of those, like, hey, what's up?

People don't know this, but Matt Frazier's very strong. Like, a lot of people with CrossFit, people just dismiss how strong these athletes are, and some of them are tremendously strong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just remember it was a brief thing. It was at the American open in Columbus, Ohio,

I think. And I was walking around with like one of my friends. He was like, Oh, and like, this guy was like super cool at the time. So everybody who saw this guy was like, Oh,

it's you. And like, I was the guy who was with like, I was the plus one. Anyway, I introduced myself as my, the plus one. And I had left.

So that's, that was, that's my claim to fame with CrossFit. Who's Joey Fingers? Who is this guy? The thing is, my gym is basically we just communicate through a bunch of inside jokes. That's all we do. That's my favorite type of humor.

I don't watch TV really anymore, but, like, my favorite sitcom is, like, Arrested Development, which is, like, a bunch of jokes that just sort of, like, weave in and out, and they sort of build and build and build. So that's kind of what this guy is, who's just this character who I created, who just I'm still sort of formulating as a character. But, yeah, it's kind of weird. Yeah. Just need ways to entertain yourself.

Yeah, it's mostly just it makes me laugh, so we're doing it. Yeah. No, I get it. You need to have those weird quirks. Yeah. What you got, Andrew? When did you start restoring guitars? I started getting into music and stuff.

When I opened the business, I had to sell my guitar from high school to buy a barbell. I hadn't played in years and I was never good I'm still not good but it was kind of like oh man that sucks so when I finally made a few bucks I was like I'm gonna I'm gonna play guitar again so I bought I got like super into amps and guitars and stuff and then I was like well I'm a project guy too more than really a music guy like I need a project to work on. So I just started getting into like building guitars and stuff. And now I have a couple that I'm like really proud of. It's kind of cool like just to learn about how to do different things, you know.

Yeah, you need to have projects. With your music, do you like record? I just am starting. I want to do a release this summer. I don't know. Like I think I came to peace with like I'm never going to be as good as I want to do a release this summer. I don't know. I think I came to peace with, like, I'm never going to be as good as I want to be, but there's always going to be people worse than what you want than you. So, like, no matter what you do, like, if you put a piece of artwork out there,

you have to be at peace with, like, people just think, well, some people think it sucks. Yeah, which is weird because, you know, it's, you know, how can you tell if somebody's good at certain things certain things like um you know if we all like everybody in this room painted a tree right there would be one that everyone would kind of be like hey well that's probably the best one yeah you know or or if if a couple other people in the room had the competency to paint a tree halfway decent somebody else might be like i like that that one better. Right, right. You know, over years in music

is even worse that way. Yeah, yeah. I think, so I learned this lesson, one of my lifters actually taught me this lesson. She told me, she goes, artists produce a huge body of work, you know? And over time, you just start to develop what is called taste.

You're like, your taste improves, your skills improve. And like that, like, not all of it's going to be good. So you just put stuff out there and just practice making things as, as a, as what you, what you do. And then eventually some of it might be good, you know? So I think that's important for everything. Like just how about the gym? Like that's a body of work. Like every program I ever wrote, like, was it like 100% like accurate? No, but I had to get to this place by writing programs, by being responsible for people.

And seeing some things fail. Yeah, some things don't quite work out. And so you try things with painting, you try things with music, you just put stuff out there and not be afraid of the outcome. This painting's awesome. This one's incredible. You want to buy it?

Anybody online want to buy that one? We'll find out how much it costs later. But I asked this question to David Garibaldi. He was here last week with it being so easy to write on a Microsoft Surface with a pen and do everything digitally. With almost everything going digital digital where do you see paint going especially like because you're doing oil painting yeah do you see it growing do you see it kind of becoming like a niche thing yeah when i was a kid i wanted to be a comic book artist because i was huge in comic books yeah but then i read a few comic books i was like wait a second

these aren't done with like ink and stuff i'm like what is all this and then i just sort of immediately realized i was never going to be the guy with the illustration program and do that. So I just, I don't think I'll ever, like, maybe if I wanted, maybe with like, if I ever released something digitally, like I would have to learn how to do the basics, but I'm never going to be that guy. So for me, like I have just chosen that that's not my thing. And there are people out there who specialize in just digital stuff. Yeah. And that's a respected trade. And they should, you know, if you have something that you need to work on digitally, just work with them.

You know? Specialize in what you're good at. And then work with people who are good at their other things. Yeah. I know you're saying, like, you started sketching and stuff when you were a kid. Did you consider yourself, like, right away that you were creative? Or were you just like, I'm just doodling and shit started coming together? Yeah.

I mean, I got that positive response. Like, I drew, you know, you draw, like, a Spider-Man. Yeah. And your friend comes up, like, oh, man, that's Spider-Man. That's really good. I'm like, yeah, I'm a drawer. You know, I'm good at drawing, you know? So, like, I was like, yeah, I'm an artist.

So, I'm an artist now, you know? So, I think I've always sort of attached myself to things that I'm good at. Yeah. I think it paid off because when you're saying, like, you went to go sign up for the weightlifting team and there was no team, somebody who's not creative would have been like, well, all right, I guess there's no team. But you were like, I'm going to fake one. I literally poured signatures. Imaginary.

Yeah, that's creative on another like side of things, but still that I feel like that all stems from you being creative as an artist. Yeah. You kind of, yeah, exactly. Any idea where this was influenced from?

No, uh, I was just a weird kid, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Is there any, uh,

particular, uh, uh, musician or artist that, uh, inspired any of this or just a bunch over the years? My taste changed from day to day, really. There's just so much good music and art being produced.

It's so hard. You find one thing one day, like, this is amazing. You just go on to the next thing. And I think just searching out and going on tangents is like one of my favorite things to do. Like I'll just get stuck on a tangent musically or artistically for a while. And then you just sort of move on. What about like photography? Any of that?

It seems expensive. I'm cheap. I'm a cheap guy. What about film? You like movies and stuff like that? Not as much. Not as much on the movies or film. I think anything requiring, like oil painting is the one thing that's expensive that I like.

You can build guitars as cheap as you want. You could just, if all I had was this, I could still sketch. So I'm more... Keep it simple. Not too many ingredients. Yeah, my whole, everything I am is about keeping it simple.

The gym is about keeping it simple. The program is like, how can we get there most simply? My art, if you look at that, there's nothing really intricate there. It's just simple. So that's actually where Occam Athletics comes from. It comes from Occam's razor. And paraphrase, it just means all things being equal, the simplest solution is usually best. And I learned about that in Bob McKinnon, so I was like, oh, man, that's exactly how I process everything. So that's what I called the gym.

I was like, we are now this. So for me, anything that is the most simple thing, but there's a lot of different pieces, and it's sort of beautiful in that way, I really am attached to. What's your education background? Did you go to college? Yeah, I went to Sac State for, it was like on and off.

And then like I quit going for a while because I wanted to get serious. And I was working in the industry at the time. It was a really frustrating time in my life because I was actually working at like two different gyms. My classmates were coming up to me and asking me about, hey man, how do you get in this place or that place? I'm like, yeah, don't worry about it. Like I'm working, dude.

Like you do your own place or that place? I'm like, yeah, don't worry about it. I'm working, dude. You do your own thing. School was always frustrating for me, but I actually did study some art stuff as well. I took figure drawing multiple times and I eventually studied some medieval art. That's actually where I got the font for the logo because I knew no one would sue me for it because it's like hundreds of years old.

So I just sort of, I think that maybe I should have gone that route, but I just wanted to keep my options open. So with a kinesiology degree, you could just at any time abandon ship and go in the medical field. Not medical field, but like healthcare, you know, healthcare is always going to be there. And that's where my parents come through. Like healthcare is what is up, you know, because if you think about it, we're all going to get sick and we're all going to die, you know? Yeah. So people will always need to be taken care of, you know? Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Debbie Downer. I was just kidding.

Yeah. Way to bring the house uh what's up with your gym where's it at and uh well how'd you get how'd you get your gym started uh so i you know i was doing my my program out of midtown strength for a long time that's where you and i met and uh it kind of got to the point where my thing just got too big to be your thing yeah my i did see you in a singlet and tight pants and yeah it was impressive there was just

I had too many people and it was my own program and I just needed to be called my own thing so I just started searching around and I had known

Amadeo from CSP because he used to work at Midtown as well and I I went up to him first because I was like I want to

it was seemed like almost like training wheels because like I knew I was already comfortable with him, you know, and he had a big space. I'm like, hey, do you have any space for me? And he goes, no. I'm like, all right, bye. And then like he was like, well, wait, I got this like really crappy garage that's filled

with garbage. I'm like, let me let me see it. And the lights didn't work. There was like a car in there. There's like a bunch of pallets and stuff of just garbage in the light. And I was like, this is perfect. It's in an alley. It's like the perfect amount of space.

Like it's like it's a separate own room. And like it felt right, you know, because like for me, if I go to any place like a little bit too polished, like my training boner just kind of goes away. I want it to be a little bit grimy. I want it to be organic feeling you know so i found that space and i'm really lucky to be where i'm at because i like working with ambideo around him asking him questions i get to see all these really cool people walk in the gym like you know uh all the fighters will come in the gym because i work with ambideo and i'm like man like this is a really cool place to be and we're right where you know in an alley

in midtown which is like where i have claimed that's my turf yeah we went over food a little bit but what's uh what's your favorite like if you're gonna you know not be on your diet what's your favorite thing anything uh anything seafood shelf is related uh i like i like we mentioned poke before anything i'll go to sushi i like southern food i went to uh savannah georgia a couple times for uh masters nationals to coach and i just fell in love with all the cooking down there um so you know anytime i could find anything like that around town i will i will go there people are pretty fat down south i gotta yeah yeah pretty big yeah and i if i lived there i would 100 be oh we're very fat yeah there's a lot of good food there yeah so much yeah

and it's a beautiful beautiful environment in certain places you know and the food's wonderful so anything seafood related southern food

Japanese food yeah it's all good got it yeah where can people find you I I have a

you can come by the gym Alchemathletics I'm there most of the time if I'm not working I'm making music or art and stuff. We're on 23rd Street and S in the alley. Unmarked building, just a big brown building warehouse. It's pretty cool. Online, you can go to occamathletics.com.

Shoot me an email from there. I have an Instagram now. My personal account is Wizard of Occam. And then the team account, which I don't even have access to is at Occam Athletics on Instagram it doesn't look like you waste a lot of time on social media I actually got more into it

with the whole Joey's Fingers thing it's like this social media joke but I just sort of use it for fun yeah, contact me those ways alright, strength is never weakness weakness is never strength bye social media joke. But I just sort of use it just for fun, really. Yeah. Yeah. Contact me those ways. All right. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength.

Bye.