Mark Bell's Power Project - Power Project EP. 98 - Branch Warren

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

Branch Warren is an American IFBB professional bodybuilder from Tyler, Texas. He is a 2X Arnold Classic winner, having won in 2011 and 2012. He is a personal trainer and owns a gym and freight company. Branch Warren is also the face of the magazine Muscular development and had big role in the bodybuilding documentary "Generation Iron". Rewatch the Live Stream: https://youtu.be/IeTiLlRjSLE ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/markbellspowerproject FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

All right. We rolling? We're good? We're good to go? All right, man. We got to just dive right into this. There's no other way to say it. You train like a total girl.

And I don't mean that in any offense to women. I mean it to offend you, you know. We've seen the videos of you training with the chains and screaming and all this dramatic stuff. What is this all about? I have no idea. No, you train like a maniac. You train like an animal. You like to really push it.

We've had a bunch of guys on the show that know you, and they've all kind of said the same thing. They're like, man, he's just crazy. He's just nuts. He likes to really push it. And a few guys mentioned, you know, like when you train with Branch, it's going to be 12 to 15 reps every single time, as heavy as you can possibly handle. And, you know, they're sometimes asked, hey, do you go heavy or do you do high volume? Do you do a lot of sets?

Do you do a lot of reps? And they're like, yep, we do a lot of everything. Why do you like to go at it like that? Man, it's just kind of a system I developed on me and Johnny, I guess, you know, my training partner. You know, Johnny was a really good power lifter. I powered a lot early in my career too. Yeah. And, you know, the people I looked at, like Dorian Yates, high intensity style training, you know, Rishka Spari was early out of mine.

And I later got to become friends with him and work for him. And so I love that high intensity. Some of that Mike Menser principle. Correct. And, you know, I tried training more like a Dorian, doing less, you know, exercises, less sets and all that. And to me, it just wasn't enough. You know, I felt like I was cheating myself almost. And beyond that, I like to train.

I like being in the gym. I like to train. And so I was like, you know what? Why not take that same intensity and instead of doing you know one set to failure why not do multiple sets of failure and do multiple exercises and just annihilate and um you know because i wasn't uh i'm not gonna say i was a hard gainer but i wasn't like a really you know some of the i know guys that they train like girls and no thanks to the chicks but uh grow. Was that ever detrimental to you?

Do you ever think like you're just, just cause you're so excited about it that you're in there for too long, going at it too hard? I don't think so. I mean, I think my resume speaks for itself. I think if, uh, if it was detrimental to me, I wouldn't have accomplished what I did and looked the way I did.

Yeah. You wouldn't have been able to grow. Yeah. So, uh, I mean, you gotta, I started my first bodybuilding contest. I weighed 154 pounds. Damn. And my, my last bodybuilding contest, I weighed 154 pounds. Damn.

My last body, well, let's say in the 2011 Arnold Classic, I was 244. Wow. That's a huge difference. Yeah. So, something worked. What about in those early days, I would imagine that you weren't enhanced. How did that style of training work before you ever got into being a professional bodybuilder, let's say?

You know what? I actually trained more back then than I did later on. Yeah. That's what you see a lot from kind of the newer guys is they want to just really kill themselves. You know, my very first bodybuilding contest, I trained at Metroflakes Gym. I got to, Brian Dobson trained us and I got,

my workout partner was Ronnie Coleman. I've heard of him a couple of times. And this guy, Mark Hamlin, and who was Ronnie's workout partner and who actually was bigger and stronger than Ronnie back then. Wow. You know, Ronnie obviously surpassed all of us, but, and I didn't want to do what he did, but, you know, we trained six days a week. We trained chest, shoulders, triceps Monday.

Tuesday was leg day, quads, hamstrings, calves. Wednesday was back day. And Wednesday, or Thursday, we started over with chest. And Friday, Saturday, Sunday was our rest day. And then we started over repeatedly again on Monday. So actually, as I got a little bit out of high school, I cut back because I was trying to get through school. I worked three jobs to get through school. I didn't have six days to go to the gym and support myself and go to school.

So I cut back to like three or four days a week. And that's when I got into powerlifting because I could train three days a week and still make progress. You notice any difference at that point? Did you maybe grow a little bit more just because you were out of the gym a little bit more or anything like that? That's what started changing my whole thing. Because what I noticed by being out of the gym a little bit more or anything like that? That's what started changing my whole thing because what I noticed by being out of the gym and giving myself more rest, I actually grew more. And I got stronger faster than I'd ever gotten strong before. And so it actually turned into a blessing. And because during that period of time, lifting a heavy weight like I was lifting, I added more

thickness and density, which that's what I was known for later on in my career. And so that combined with my high intensity style of training with the heavy weight, that's kind of how my whole thing evolved. That's the discipline. That's the hard part. You know, people don't realize that and it might sound like we're being dicks or something, but we love training. So, you know, getting to the gym's not hard. We get a schedule, uh, we get a training partner or two, and then we're just locked in like every Wednesday, we're going to do this.

Every Tuesday, we're going to do this every Friday. We're going to do that. And it's just the way it is. It happens at the same time, every time. And there's a, it's not negotiable. It's that's what happens. And if you travel or something, maybe you get the workout done a little earlier or maybe you, you get the workout when you land, but it's still going to happen. My, my entire career that I competed as a professional, I never missed a workout if I was traveling or whatever. It didn't matter. Right.

I remember going to the gym at 1230 at night and training. I remember calling some dudes up and I was in Australia and it was running late. And I was like, man, we'll just random guys. No, I knew these guys, you know, from the, Hey man, what you doing? I'm sleeping, bro. From, you know, being there previously. And I was like, Hey guys, I got to get a workout in. All right, dude, we'll keep the gym open for you. Come on. I remember getting there like 1230 training until 130, 145, 140. Yeah. You know, and cause I was just, I was so focused. I'm like, I never wanted to lose a contest because someone outworked me. You know, I didn't want to, I didn't want to, that's the thing you can control.

I can't control who came to this contest. I couldn't control what condition they were in, any of that. But I could control me. I could control my training, my diet, my discipline, you know, my preparation. And I didn't want to miss a workout and like give 100%. Yeah. And as you climb the ladder to it, it gets to be different because you know,

at first, Oh, we got this bodybuilder guy coming in. He's going to train at one o'clock in the morning. Not, not that big a deal. You just go in and train, but as they get to know you and as you become branch Warren, then it's a different thing.

Like you better be hyped. Those guys are probably gonna be hyped and excited. Even if you're tired, even if you're legitimately tired. And so that's going are probably gonna be hyped and excited, even if you're tired, even if you're legitimately tired. And so that's gonna get you fired up and excited. But I find it really interesting, you know, the discipline to try to not do certain things,

the discipline to try to stay out of the gym here and there is probably the most difficult thing. And that's, you know, I try to share that with people that are newer. They wanna try to get everything done all at one time. A lot of times when people start at super training, they're like, can I do this like every day? You know, can I come in more? And usually we just say, Hey, you know, if you're doing it the right way, you're not going to really want to because you're, you're, you know, powerlifting is just different too. Like power lifting is, uh, even a little bit harder to recover from,

not the muscle soreness, but just the nervous system takes such a beating. And so you kind of move around slow. You're kind of achy. It takes a long time to recover from those heavy deadlifts and squats. What I noticed with bodybuilding is you tend to feel pretty good every day. So for me to talk myself out of going to the gym is, is a little harder right now, even though muscles are still really sore and I'm still getting jacked up here

and there. Um, there's always like a muscle that I can work. I can be like, oh, that one's not too bad. Yeah, that's true.

Cause you know, you break it down into body parts and you're split. And, uh, so there's always, always, uh, I'll say this.

I probably lived in pain for 20 years, but you just learned that's just the way it is, you know? So you've learned to accept that. And, uh, so there's always, always, uh, I'll say this. I probably lived in pain for 20 years, but you just learned that's just the way it is, you know? So you've learned to accept that and, uh, you move on whether you're super sore or your joints hurt or whatever it is. Uh, you just, that's just the way it is. So how much pain? I mean, how, like how bad are your legs hurting? You know, a few days after training session. I can remember leg workouts. It was bad, man.

I mean, just sitting down on the toilet, you're just like, oh, shit. How am I going to get back up? Yeah, so. Help me. But, you know, I don't think when I was in the process of it, I'd never tell anybody. You know, I'd walk in the gym, Johnny, be like, you sore? I'm like, nope. So you never admit anything.

No, dude, I feel great. Yeah, and I'm like, let's fucking do it, dude. So I never admitted to anything, I don't think. But, yeah, it was, now that I'm out of it. Yeah. I mean, I was always like sore and I saw when those rest days came, I relished those rest days. Cause I realized how important they were, you know, for recovery. And, um, you know, I did everything I could outside of the gym to recover, you know, from the chiropractor to, um, muscle activation therapy, deep tissue, all that stuff to help recover. When you were young, did you have just like tons of energy?

Has bodybuilding maybe made you like a little bit more calm of a person? Because you seem to have a calm demeanor, but you train like a lunatic. Don't judge a bottle by its cover. Right, right. So, no. Yeah, you know what? It does keep me calm. I used to joke around saying, man, bodybuilding probably kept me from being in prison.

Uh, but, uh, cause you know, you go in there and I would train so hard and, uh, you know, it's just a, it's the best thing. It's, that's my time. You know, like I tell people, you know, 22 and a half hours a day, I give to people, you know, um, I'll, I'll stop, talk to anybody, take a picture, autograph, whatever, but that hour and a half I'm in the gym, that's my time.

Leave me alone. And, um, that's just, I close off the world and, and I'll tell a story. We were at Metroflex training one time and, um, there was a tornado. We're doing legs and at Metroflex, if you've never been there, it's just a big warehouse. They got warehouse doors, no air conditioning and, uh, it's just a big warehouse. They got warehouse doors, no air conditioning. And, uh,

it's hot, dirty, and, uh, music so loud you hear it in the parking lot. Well, um, Brian came back and said,

Hey man, there's a tornado. My wife just called and it's bearing down right on us. And I remember I looked out and the dumpster was flying through the parking lot. And I go, the fuck we're going to do? I mean, you know where to go.

There ain't like there's a basement or a storm cellar there. Yeah. And I remember I had 500 pounds on my back squatting. This stuff was flying through the parking lot. And, um. Like this ought to keep me bolted down.

Yeah. That's what I was thinking. I remember at the time I was so focused because I was training for whatever I was training for. I didn't care. I was just like, yes. And I got a set to do. I got legs to do.

So I ain't got time for no tornado. And so I look back around, I'm like, man, that was pretty stupid, man. But at the same point, what are you going to do? There's nowhere to go. You're like, branch, what are you going to do? You're like, I'm going to hold onto this hundred pound plate. Just do heavy farmer's carries. But no, you just, you're, you know, I was so focused and determined and I wouldn't let anything interfere with my workout.

And, you know, you're right. And you would, I would train so hard and then it would, you know, as you train hard, the rest of your whole day is your chill. Do you feel pretty happy with the results, you know, that you got? You know, it sounds like you, sounds like you put every, I mean. You know what? Sounds like you put everything you could into it. I gave it everything I had and I went beyond what everything I could have. I gave more than everything I was capable of giving.

I did some things that, looking back on, I kind of surprised myself. Yeah. I won everything in the world except for the Olympia. And I got close to that. So, you know, if you give it everything you got and you know inside that you did everything you can, you got no regrets. What's the difference with the Olympia?

Is that, there must be a genetic component kind of mixed into some of that. Man, you're trying to be the best bodybuilder on the planet. If you're trying to be the best, the single best person, no matter what it is, that's a tall mountain to climb. Yeah.

And it kind of changes too. It's like a little bit of a moving target. Like it's relatively similar over the years, but it changes a little bit. It is. And it's, you know, there's been 13 men in almost 60 years. They've only claimed that title. So it's a very exclusive club.

Yeah, it's fucking wild. And, you know, I came within a hair of it. And like I tell people, second place at Olympia is the worst place in the bodybuilding because you're so close to the ultimate goal. But, you know, it's one giant leap away, though. So it was a bittersweet pill to swallow. Do you know if any of those guys or even yourself, have any of those guys ever even gotten to be fat? To be fat? Yeah.

The guys who have won, the guys who have won the Mr. Olympia contest. No, they're all. They're all kind of like almost ectomorphs or something like that. Yeah. I've never seen any of those guys get fat. I don't think I could get fat. Even if I, even if I just stopped training and started eating, I don't think I would ever get fat.

Yeah. Cause I see that there, I mean, obviously there's an insane amount of work that goes along with it, but definitely seems like there's some sort of genetic component in there. The bubbly muscles and stuff that you guys get, the way you guys are able to stack muscle on top of muscle seems to be a thing that separates you out. I mean, I see some really good bodybuilders. I see some really impressive bodybuilders down at Gold's Gym Venice. I mean, the guys, they're huge.

They look great, but they don't have that pro look, which is kind of that next level. And maybe it's just because they're young and it takes a long time to get the maturity going and stuff like that. Well, two things. Bodybuilding's a marathon. It's not a sprint. I mean, I think the average pro in my day, it

took eight to 10 years of hardcore competing and training to turn pro. And so that's a decade of, of grinding and grinding, chasing just to turn pro. And then when you get pro, now you get to start all over again, you got to work your way back up. So, uh, and the other thing is, uh, genetics, genetics give you the ability to do the sport.

They don't ensure your success. I have a very good friend who's a pro football player and he played eight years in the NFL. Well, his genetics give him the ability to play pro football. He played on the line. He was a lineman. He was six foot, you know, six or whatever he was. Yeah. And 300.

He was the guy that played for the Cowboys. Yeah. And, you know, 330 some pounds or 20 pounds, whatever he weighed, he was. Yeah. And, uh, 300. He was the guy that played for the Cowboys. Yeah. Right. And, uh, you know, 330 some pounds or 20 pounds, whatever he weighed, he was huge. And, uh, you know, because of his genetics, he grew to that size, you know, height wise, and he trained and ate and, uh, he had the genetic ability to play in the offensive line in the NFL.

And he had to get the skill set. Now, his heart and determination drive, he developed a skill set and made him a professional football player. It's the same thing with bodybuilding. Um, anybody can bodybuild. Now, are you going to be a pro bodybuilder? His heart and determination drive, he developed a skill set and made him a professional football player. It's the same thing with bodybuilding. Anybody can bodybuild. Now, are you going to be a pro bodybuilder?

It depends on if you have the genetics. Now you have the ability to, but now it depends on how hard and how much heart you have, whether you're going to develop that ability and move up and become a pro. Is it kind of hard for you to hear people be like in between? Is it hard for you to hear people be a little wishy-washy about something? Like if they come to you and they're like, man, I'm dying to be a pro. And then you kind of find out that they're not making the correct food choices. They're not sleeping correctly. And you're like, dude, you only kind of want to be. These elements are the most important thing.

You don't have the foundation to even get started. That's the most common thing I hear. And you hear people, I want to do this. I want to do this. I'm like, well, then do it. But you ain't giving a hundred percent. So guess what? You ain't going to get there because you will get

beat by somebody who's just as gifted as you are, who is giving a hundred percent. And that's always the case. There's no room for error. You can't. Because you're trying to, you know, you're trying to be the best in the world at something. So if you're not fully 100% committed to it, you're going to get there because you're going to get beat by somebody who is.

I asked a lot of fat kid questions in the beginning to Honey and then he was like, nope, nope, nope. I was like, hey, what about? And he's like, nope. I was like, what about? Nope. I'm sure there's many different styles of bodybuilding that people have been successful with, but relatively it seems to be very similar. For most, fat content is very low to moderate. Carbohydrates are adjusted kind of according to the individual, and then protein is usually pretty high.

Is that correct? Was that true for you? That's the base plan. I always had, of course, high protein. I usually had high carbs and kept fat, you know, pretty low. And, you know, I know.

What did that look like for you and how much do you weigh? All season, I used to weigh 265, 270. You know, compete. See that smokey? You got to get bigger.

And, you know, at my, towards the, when I was winning the big shows, I was in the 240s on stage. You know, 240, 245, somewhere in that range. You know, 400 grams of protein a day, carbs. A low day was probably 250. You know, I remember carving up for the Olympia of the Arnold the week before at 1,000 a day. You know, I was blessed to be able to do that. I know some guys couldn't.

Cast iron stomach. Yeah. Just taking shits and manhole covers throughout the country, wherever you can. Hey, you're going to be big. You got to eat big. Just got to shit right in the bathtub at that point. There's no other.

Everything is a pro bodybuilder. Everything is done to the extreme. Yeah. So, but yeah, so I never did a lot of cardio, 20 minutes, you know, I didn't even call it cardio. I called it just spiking my metabolism in the morning to get everything going. I'd get up early, go for a walk. And, uh, that was it.

So you, you kept, uh, some sort of car, some sort of cardiovascular training in there. Most of the time. Uh, pre-contest. Off-season I didn't, but with my training style and the gym we trained at, it's been 100 to 110 every day for the past two months. You have pretty short rest periods in your training? Yeah, it was just me and Johnny there for years, and so he would go, I would go, he would go, I would go.

So you're probably looking at 90 seconds in between sets. So. Anything in particular that you guys did, like when you're warming up, did you use lower reps to kind of save more for the bigger sets or did you just kind of go gangbusters right from the beginning with the reps? You know, man, it was, let's say we're squatting.

Let's say we're doing 15 reps. We do 10 to 15 reps every warmup set. And I use a warmup for just that to warm up, you know, my thing was get my knees, my back, everything warm. And, you know, if I need to do 15 or 20 on a particular set, just so I could get, feel right. Yes.

Yeah. And I, you know how it is. You don't go heavy until you feel right. You know, if something feels off. Yeah. That's a key point. I mean, I remember there was normally I would do, you know, three or four warmups. Sometimes I might do six or seven if I needed to, you know, to get warm because I wasn't

going to, I knew not to get that heavy weight until everything was right. That's a good point for everybody listening. If you need to take the same weight multiple times, a lot of times that can, uh, really kind of get you prepared for your workout. You have a way better workout. And if you just try to rush it and you just try to get to three or four plates. That's it. Take your time.

I can think many, many, many times over the years, I would stay at 225, stay on squats, do multiple sets until I felt I was getting warmed up before I would go up. Yeah. Your body will almost tell you like, yeah, it feels, you know, it feels pretty good. A lot of times, you know, when you're not feeling good, you kind of feel yourself pushing unevenly or you're kind of grimacing. You know, that's a really, really good sign that shit ain't going to go well. Cause if you're grimacing and you're going to add weight to your next set and you just, you're only warming up with 135, it's not going to feel better when you add weight. It gets worse. It's going to only

continue to feel worse. For sure. What's it like training at Metro Flex Gym, having Johnny Jackson there and having Ronnie Coleman there and having some great coaching? Man, it's, even to this day, I think some of the best up-and-coming bodybuilders in the Dallas-Worth area train there. Back in our day, you know, you'd walk in there at 1030 in the morning. Ronnie was training with his crew. Brian Dobson, the owner, you know, he trained all of us at one point or another. Me and Johnny were in there.

There were every, all the best lifters used to come out of Metroflex. Now there's so many different gyms and spread all over. But it was a pretty, pretty motivating, man. You had, we had pro football players in there. We had pro baseball players. Noah, bitches for the Mets.

He came out of there. We had, um, MMA fighters. We had some great power lifters, Steve Goggins back in the day, trained there. Yeah, Steve Goggins, amazing. He, uh, I was telling a story to Smokey earlier. One of the most impressive things, probably the most impressive thing I've seen in a gym. He, uh, I was a teenager. He was, uh, trying to, he's going to try to break the world squat record in the 242 pound class. He had 1,003, I believe, on the bar.

He stepped out of the rack. We're spotting him. He goes down. He didn't snap his belt shut. So as he went down, the belt went around his chest. Oh, shit. And he didn't, you know, he stayed under it. We helped him get it up, get him on the rack.

He got pissed. He sat down and recovered. Got back up. Second go around. He took off the rack. He got pissed. He sat down and recovered, got back up. Second go around, he took it off the rack. He went down, he touched his chest to his knees and stood back up with it.

Yeah. He, he had a unique, uh, way of squatting. He was like really lean forward. I was there at the WPO finals in like 2005 or six. And he did 1102 squat.

That was the biggest squat ever done at the time and it was insane because it was like this crazy looking uh good morning yeah i know it was insane right good morning type squat thing where he just really leaned forward a lot but then it kind of made sense for him the way that he was built and then he also uh he ended up deadlifting 881 um yeah he's one of the greatest power leaders of all time all time, especially in that weight class. I mean, he was unbelievable. But these are the kind of guys I grew up with. You know, the most successful man I've ever known,

he gave me some advice when I was young. He said, if you want to be a successful bodybuilder, son, he goes, you need to surround yourself with successful bodybuilders and lifters. And being at that gym, I was around the greatest in the world, literally. Yeah. So bodybuilding and powerlifting.

What's something that makes uh ronnie coleman different that you saw work ethic work ethic and unbelievable genetics you can find like he had a really positive mindset too right he's he's the seems like really happy he's the ultimate optimist uh he uh and he's just uh you know i grew up in his shadow coming up and um he would refuse to let anybody beat him uh, you know, I grew up in his shadow coming up and, um, he would refuse to let anybody beat him. And, uh, you know, I tried to train with him after we were, after I was pro. Yeah.

And, you know, if, uh, I mean, we were deadlifting one time and, you know, we wouldn't play two, three, four, five plates, six plates. And, um, I'm doing the same reps as him. I go seven plates. And, um, I think he did three reps with seven plates. I pulled five. He got pissed. him. I go seven plates. And, um, I think he did three reps with seven plates. I pulled five. He got pissed.

So now we do eight plates. I'm like, he would keep going up until he could beat you. It didn't matter if it took 20 sets. We're going to keep doing deadlifts until he could finally beat me. And then we go do something else. And, uh, so it kind of became a little counterproductive, you know? And, um, but that was his mentality. He wasn't, no one's going to beat him.

And that's why he was what he was. Yeah. He was, uh, he never missed workouts and, um, he, uh, had great genetics,

obviously. And, uh, he was just a workhorse. Yeah. The documentary on him, I thought was pretty cool. Is it tough for you to see,

uh, the way he's getting around nowadays? I know he's in a lot of pain. You know, when I first saw him, he came into gym and the first time I saw him and he was in a, you know, basically, you know, in a wheelchair and walkers and it was painful because here's this guy, the greatest of all time.

He's like everybody's hero. I don't think anybody before or after when he was at his prime, we'd never seen anybody could beat him when he was in his prime. And I've known him since I was a kid. And so it was painful, but then I talked to him about three years ago or so. I went to dinner with him and I asked him, I said, man, you got any regrets? He's like, nope. He said, I had the time of my life being Mr. Olympia.

He said, the only regret I have, he goes, you know, when they filmed me squatting 800, he goes, I could have done two, three, four more reps. He goes, because we'd seen him do that in the gym. I know he could have done more. I've seen him do more than what he saw, you know, in all those videos. And he goes, that's the only regret I got. He goes, I wouldn't, if I had to do it all over again, I'd do it the same way.

You know, after he said that, I was like, you know what, I don't, I don't, that's cool. Yeah. If he doesn't feel bad about himself. And, you know, he, he loved what he did and had a great time doing it. Well, it seems now, you know, he's, he's he's able to focus, uh, more, you know, in on, um, you know, motivating people, going around, talking to people, the documentary that they

made, uh, for him is, is outstanding. And then on top of that, it seems like he's able to concentrate on his business. And we've seen that from a lot of power lifters and bodybuilders over the years, when they transition out of their, out of their lifting career, they're able to focus more in on their business. Have you found that to be true for yourself? 100%. I'd always had another business outside of bodybuilding. Like when you started in the beginning, it was probably hard to figure out how to make some dough and put all this time and effort into eating and training like a madman, right?

Absolutely. And as a professional athlete, you're one injury away from being done. It doesn't matter what your sport is. So I always had my own business. Worked for myself. I had a gym for a number of years. And my wife and I opened a freight company. Long 12, been 12 years now.

We actually got married. And so no matter how successful my career was, I always had a successful business to fall back on because I wasn't willing to put all my eggs in one basket. So, and now that I'm retired from competing, I was making plans for that for a couple of years before I did retire. So it ended up paying off having some of that foundation before you retired. Absolutely. And, you know, now that I'm retired, I'm actually more successful now than I was when I was competing because six months of the year, I was in concentration camp, training for the Arnold, training for the Olympia, and you've got tunnel vision. So I took that same drive and discipline and applied that into business and doing very well. I got my own supplement line through Black Skull. We're in South America, Europe, Middle East, doing very well. I think a lot of people don't realize that about bodybuilding.

It's that, you know, it's not just confined here to the United States. It's like more popular in other places, really. I mean, people go crazy for it in other countries, right? Yeah, it's places like South America. You know, bodybuilding is really starting to emerge. And it's becoming super popular. It's growing, you know, huge. Europe, I think they're a little farther along

than South America, but I think it's a huge market there. And the Middle East, I think it's the hottest market in the world right now. They go nuts over bodybuilding over there, and you're seeing some of the great athletes, you know, come out of the Middle East. And so, you know, where it's very much, it's a mature market here and very competitive.

You know, I think there's 900 supplement companies, supplement companies here. And you go, yeah, so it's a mature market here and, uh, very competitive. You know, I think there's 900 supplement companies, supplement companies here. And, uh, he goes, yeah. So it's very, very, uh, very competitive here. So, uh, another project I've got going on is, uh, I partnered with Scott James. He was on BSN, was the original founder. Uh, we partnered on a Wicked Cuts. It's a beef jerky company. Got seven flavors.

We got beef, we got turkey, we got bacon. Awesome. I'd love to try it out. I've got some here. Oh, cool. So, uh, we got turkey, we got bacon. Awesome. I'd love to try it out. I've got some here. Oh, cool. So if you can smoke it and grab my bag out of the office, then we'll try some here. Let you check it out. But it's going really well.

So the thing I like about that is it's something that appeals to everyone. You know, it's not where supplements is just that small slice of the population that you're marketing towards. Well, beef jerky, jerky in general, who doesn't like that? Yeah. If you're not a vegan, everybody else, they like it. Right. And so I'm having a snack that's fairly healthy.

It is. And, you know, some of our flavors are keto friendly and very low in carbs and high in protein, low sodium, you know, for jerky at least. Somebody was asking if you ship out to the UK. Yes, we do. Awesome.

There you go. Have you ever used a ketogenic diet in your bodybuilding career? Was there points where you would just dip down with really low carb or no? I tried it one time for a very short period of time and it was not working for me. You know, if I don't have carbs, you know, I flatten out fast and I strength tanks and I put a kibosh to that real quick. strength tanks and i'll put a kibosh of that real quick and one thing i noticed about bodybuilding is it's uh and this is like the this is the worst the worst thing to sell people on worst thing to sell consumers on is like hey you know what this is just going to take a really long time and you

don't get to do anything fancy you don't get to do any tricks um but if you do the same thing every day for a really really long period of time, then shit will work out for you. And so, like, you can't do, like, no carb and all these other things. Here we go. Turkey jerky. Turkey jerky. Yeah. Give these a shot.

This is awesome. But, you know, there's not anything like fancy about it. You know, there's not, you know, a lower carb diet. I know some guys maybe, you know, after a show might use it or something like that just because they don't want to balloon up. You know, they don't want to gain a bunch of weight. But I agree with you. And I've been trying to communicate that a lot. You know, I got my Warren Carbs book over here.

And I, I've been trying to communicate that a lot. You know, I got my Warren carbs book over here. Um, as much as I'm a believer in a no carb style diet and something that helped me distance myself from eating junk food is something that helped me, uh, gain discipline to even attempt a bodybuilding diet. Cause bodybuilding diet is, is tough. If you're, if you're coming out of nowhere, trying to bodybuilding diet, it can be very difficult. Your first diet is the hardest. Yeah. By far. Yeah, right.

And just getting used to the blandness of it, you know, the rice and the chicken and the different stuff like that. It takes some time. But without carbohydrates, you're not going to be able to pack on the muscle. You're not going to be able to recover from the workouts. not going to be able to pack on the muscle. You're not going to be able to recover from the workouts. And on top of that, the style of workouts that you're doing where there's 12 or 15 reps per

almost every set, there's a large amount of sets in every, um, every exercise that you do. You're doing multiple exercises per body part. It just really doesn't make a lot of sense. Don't you think? I agree. It's a, like I said, I tried it for a short period of time.

I think the only time, uh, I ever went really low carbs was after a competition. If I had another competition the following week or two weeks after. So what I would do is, you know, for two to three days after the show, I would go super low just to keep from bloating out. Because if you compete on a Saturday and you've got to travel and compete again the next Saturday, you've got to keep the carbs down to keep from bloating out. Yeah. Because that rebound you get, as you're going to find out after the show, you'll gain 20 pounds like that down to keep from bloating out. Yeah. You know, cause that, that rebound you get, as you're going to find out after the show, you'll gain 20 pounds like that.

I know. I'm nervous about that. I'm like, fuck. If you can, uh, if you can go stay down low for two or three days after the show, you'll, you'll miss that rebound effect and you won't, won't gain back as fast and blow it out. I'll have to fucking try to remember that.

Cause as soon as you start eating, like the floodlights, the damn bus and there's no stopping it. Yeah. So. Yeah. Well, especially with me, I love sweets and stuff. So, and then these guys, these guys are going to be excited. They're going to, they're going to be feeding me probably.

Just, just fries in and out. That's it. That's true. How did the, how did all this lifting stuff start for you? Man, I, I grew up in West Texas on a cattle ranch. So our closest neighbor was eight miles away. So my best friend was a German shepherd. But you don't know any difference.

You're a kid, man. You think everybody lives like that. You don't know. And so hard work was just part of it, man. On a ranch or farm, anyone who's ever grew up like that, there's always work to do. And it's hard. Did your dad or grandpa or uncle, anybody lift? No, no one lifted.

And so, but hard work was just a way of life. You know, I didn't know no better. I always had to clean, you know, take care of the horses, haul hay. A lot of shit to do on a farm. Yeah, shovel shit, literally. And, you know, that's just what we had to do. And in addition, you go to school. And of course, playing football in Texas

is the big thing, especially out there. Yeah. And the whole town would show up. So that's how I grew up. And when I was in high school, we moved to Fort Worth area. And I went from a school where our farm was where we had about 30, 40 people in the whole class.

The two best looking girls were my cousins. So we moved to the Fort Worth area. You know, the school's like, you know, 1,800 kids in high school. And, you know, more than half of those were girls. So life got much better. But, you know, we didn't have any money. So I knew I went from a team where we needed every guy to try out just to have a team to a school where you had to make the team. And I knew, hey, if I'm going to make this team, I better start working out, do something, get bigger, stronger, so I can have a shot at making the team.

So I met this kid in the neighborhood. I couldn't afford a membership. Membership back then was probably 15 bucks a month or something. I mean, we were poor. And so he had a membership. So he'd open the back door. I'd slip in. Worked out every day, maybe six days a week. We didn't mean, we were poor. And so he had a membership, so he'd open the back door, I'd slip in. Worked out every day, maybe six days a week.

We didn't know what we were doing. Our goal was to try to do every machine, exercise in the gym. You know, we were like, cool, man, let's work out. Train every body part. Yeah, we ain't doing nothing right. There's no logic to our method. That's kind of important, though, I think. Don't you think it's kind of important just to not know what you're doing and to get in there and just start moving around? I mean, you don't want to hurt method. We just. It's kind of important though, I think. So. I think it's kind of important just to like, to not know what you're doing

and to get in there and just start moving around. I mean, you don't want to hurt yourself. Yeah. I mean, I think as long as you don't hurt yourself, it's cool.

But yeah, we didn't have a clue what we're doing. We just lifted, man. And so, there was a bodybuilder there. Guy was huge. And I'd seen a couple

of bodybuild magazines, but I'd never seen an actual bodybuilder. I didn't know a man could really look like that. So this guy's huge. He's 280, 290 pounds, national level competitor. And, you know, we thought he was cool, man.

He drove a Corvette, had a different chick every week. They were all hot. Had a mullet probably back in those days. Nah, he had a ponytail actually. See, there we go. Had a Fu Manchu thing going on. Works every time. One of the meanest looking dudes I'd ever seen.

Sick fanny pack, I bet. The standard fanny pack, bro. Works every time. One of the meanest looking dudes I'd ever seen. Sick fanny pack, I bet. The standard fanny pack you think, bro. That was everything. Carrying around his water everywhere. He wanted the gallon

of water. You're like, that's what we need to do to be big. We need to get a fucking gallon of water. Shit.

So he came up to me one day and he said, hey kid, he goes, you don't know what the hell you're doing.

You're going to hurt yourself. He said, I'm like, all right. And he goes, why don't you show up You're going to hurt yourself. He said, I'm like, all right. And he goes, why don't you show up tomorrow and I'll show you how to train. I'm like, all right. So he didn't say that to my friend. He just said it to me.

And he goes, man, you're going to go, my friend? I go, hell yeah, I'm going to show up. He goes, dude, he's going to kill you. And I'm like, whatever, bro. I said, I'm going to get big and jacked. I'm going to get all the chicks and I'm going to kick your ass. And he's like, whatever. So I showed up the next day and this dude destroyed me.

We did legs and it was the first, my first real actual workout was the leg day. And, uh, I think I threw up three times. I mean, this dude annihilated my ass, but I wouldn't quit. You know, I get sick. I'm like, he, I mean, he just took a trashy point to the trash can. I went through up and, um, the next time I threw up, I wouldn't let him, I ran down to the bathroom real quick threw up and i wouldn't let him he goes you get sick i'm like nope and uh so um i threw up again after the workout and i remember i could barely walk home you know and um i got home i'm like i got the next day dude i was like crippled and i'm like but i

showed up again he trained me again he trained me every day for two weeks. Shit. And he goes, he wrote it all down. He goes, follow this program for the next month. He goes, you stick with it. I'll change it up and we'll do something different. Well, he would change it up. And when he changed it up, he'd show me how to do the new exercises. And he'd take me through the workouts, you know, the first time. Yeah.

And I stuck with it. So I gained like almost 20 pounds that summer. Shit. Just half-ass eating and training and um he talked to you a little bit about eating too he did he uh he gave me a basic a real basic plan not a bodybuilding program by any means but just like um said eat protein eat more protein you know um you know so chicken might be fried chicken you know steak might be fried steak or whatever but yeah you're a kid you know and i wasn't i had abs know, and I wasn't, I had abs, man. I wasn't fat.

And I'm like, all right. So I gained almost 20 pounds that summer, just half-assed training. Well, I was training hard now, but you know, not half-assed eating. And, um, made the team and, uh, did good. I got back, um, season was over and I came back in the gym there and, uh, I kept training all

through the school year. Well, that, uh, that next year, that next year, that next summer, he's a kid. He goes, you ever think about competing? I'm like, I'm looking at this dude going, are you nuts? And he goes, no, they got a junior division. And I'm like, he goes, why don't you come to the show this weekend and see what it's all about. All right. So I went.

He picked me up, took me, went to the show. And I saw the junior division. I was like, he goes, what do you think? I go, I think if I train for it, I could do it. He goes, there's a show at the end of the summer, like 12 weeks from now. He goes, if you want to train for it, I'll train you for it. He goes, like, all right. He goes, I'm going to take you to a real gym.

I'm like, what the hell are we at right now? He goes, this ain't a real gym. I'm like, all right. He goes, I'll pick you up Monday morning. He picks me up Monday morning, drive across town. We pull up in front of this gym, gravel parking lot, there's chicks in bikinis squatting out front.

And, uh, there's these big, the biggest dudes I've seen in my life walking around. Um, you can hear the music. It's cranking so loud. I walk into the gym and, uh, this gym is called Metroflex gym. And, uh, he goes, he, Mark walks in and he says, hey man, this is a kid I was telling you about.

He wants to compete. And I introduced myself and I said, hey man, I'd like to do this show. I don't have money. I can't afford a membership. I said, I'll clean the place up, work it off, you know, trade out with you if I can train here for this competition.

And Brian said, let me see what you look like. I'll turn my shirt off, hit a few poses. And he goes, let me see your legs look like. I'll take my shirt off, hit a few poses. And he goes, let me see your legs. I showed him my legs. He goes, I'll tell you what, kid. He goes, you train here and represent the gym and you win, you don't got by membership. He goes, if you lose, you're going to work it off.

I'm like, fair enough. Well, this guy, Mark turned out to be Ronnie Coleman's workout partner. Oh, shit. And Brian trained him. So that's who I trained for my first show. Yeah. And that was 26 years ago.

Yeah. And I still haven't bought a membership. I still can't get over the chicks squatting in bikinis. I'm still stuck. Yeah, man. That place, it's calmed down a lot. But back then, all the good strip clubs were in Arlington, right outside of Dallas.

So they all trained there. And all the dudes, you know. So it was a volatile mix, man. You had strippers training there. You had cops. You had thugs. You had powlifters. You had bodybuilders.

You had pro athletes. So it was like fire and gasoline. It was always some kind of. The best I ever got on any of that was one of our guys took weights outside the gym in the snow and deadlifted naked in just a pair of work boots. So I got kind of, I guess, the flip side of that. I didn't get bikinis, I guess. Nah, man, we had some crazy stuff happen in that gym, man. It was, they had a shootout one time.

There was probably fights and shit, right? Oh, dude, there was fights all the time, man. The rule was if you fought, you went outside and fought. If you won, you got to come back in and finish your workout. If you lost, you went home for the day. So that was the rule. The only person that would fight inside the gym was me. No, no, you went outside and fought. If you won, you got to come back in and finish your workout. If you lost, you went home for the day. So, uh, that was the rule. The only person that would fight inside the gym was-

Like, no, no, you got your ass kicked. You know, you know you got your ass kicked. Go home. No, but I would stand out there and referee it, man. If you, you know, if you lost, he's like, you gotta go home for the day, bro. And that was that.

So, it, uh, Mark was the only one that would fight inside the gym. And, uh, I think the worst fight that ever happened was he, uh, he was dating this girl. And, uh, he knew that, uh, one of her ex-boyfriends was one of these male stripper dudes and he called them dig dancers. He hated them. And, uh, you know, you know, the dudes, man, they walk around no shirts on, long hair. You mix the strippers in with the bodybuilders and you're going to run into some problems.

So, um, so you got this male stripper dudes in there and we hated him and he knew she messed with one of them before they got together. And he didn't, it didn't matter that he wasn't with her because like once he had his brand on them, then anybody before, after had a problem if he's ran into them. So, uh, we're training and she whistles at somebody cause she's in there and he goes, uh, you listen to that. She goes, nothing. And he goes, he looked around, he goes, oh, that's that dude. Ain't it? That's your fricking dude used to mess with listen that she goes nothing and he goes he looked around he goes oh

that's that dude ain't it that's your freaking dude used to mess with and she goes whatever he goes i'll beat her beat his ass she goes yeah right he goes oh you don't think i can beat his ass and i'm like oh no here we go well uh this dude takes off on a freaking death march across the gym and this uh this dude is doing leg curls when he sees mark coming he pushes himself up he goes hey man mark gets freaking blasting knocks him over backwards and uh stomps this dude's teeth out literally and uh he uh had long hair and a ponytail well the whole gym stops because mark's over here just savaging this dude and remember ronnie's there and he's a cop but ronnie's just sitting there with his arms folded going yeah make mark make Mark real pissed today. So this poor dude is just getting pummeled, man.

And he's basically unconscious. And finally, Brian jumps on Mark and is like, dude, you're going to kill this dude. Stop. And the guy's just,

you know, a bloodied mess on the floor. He looks around. He puts his foot on the dude's head, wraps his ponytail around his hand, pulls it out,

scalps this dude. Everybody was like, that's the only time I saw that gym. Everybody was like, oh, shit. Like that was too much for everybody. Yeah, everybody was like, damn, dude. Screaming on the leg press back squats is not a big deal. You know, typical fight. Nobody really, the gym wouldn't even stop half the time.

Everybody just keep training. But yeah, so he threw it down. He went over and grabbed Michelle by the hair, threw her in the car, and they left. Jesus. And Brian took the hair and tacked it up on the wall next to the boar skull. And it was there for years. People would come in like, what's that?

I'm like, man, don't even ask. Go. Sore subject. Yeah. Craziness. Yeah, it was a wild place to grow up as a kid. But, you know, those guys actually kept me out of a lot of trouble. Yeah. Because it was do as I say, up as a kid. But, you know, those guys actually kept me out of a lot of trouble. Yeah.

Because it was do as I say, not as I do. So as I got older, man, you know, they were like, kid, you're going to have a good career at this. Don't do what we do. Did you have a good time with bodybuilding? Because, I mean, you know, going through these competitions and going through the dieting and all the, you know, all the training and everything,

it is fun, but the consistency and, you know, longevity that you had, did you enjoy all of it? Had a blast. Had the time of my life. Um, it was my dream. It must've got frustrating at times or two, right? When you're not maybe getting where you want to get or things like that. I never let myself get frustrated.

Um, I believed in myself, you know, um, um, I'm a, you know, I believed in myself. I'm a Christian. I've always put my faith in the Lord. As far as getting frustrated, I never let myself get frustrated. If I had a bad place in or had an injury, then I didn't focus on it. I didn't let myself feel sorry or get frustrated. I just focused on how can I overcome this. What do you think a misconception might be about the way that you train? Because watching some of the videos

where you guys are doing shoulder presses, you're just chucking the weight around whatever way you can. What do you think is misunderstood about it? My biggest thing that kind of pisses me off is like, okay, powerlifting, you're being judged on your form. I powerlifted. I've done meets. Done whatever. It's like, okay, powerlifting, you're being judged on your form, right? I powerlifted, right?

I've done meets. Yeah. Done whatever. Bodybuilding, you're not being judged on your form. Right. Bodybuilding is real simple. You're not going to a show and doing an overhead press. No, no one gives a damn how much you bench press or squat or what your form is when you're on stage.

No one cares. It doesn't matter. All bodybuilding is is getting the most blood into the muscle as humanly possible and train it to failure. And then you rest and repeat. That's all it is. So if you sacrifice a little bit of form in order to get more reps, to fatigue the muscle more, what's wrong with that? A good example of that too would be something like a bent over row. Like if you don't move at all in a bent over row, you're using a lot less weight and the range of motion is a lot shorter.

Correct. I mean, you might literally use like 95 pounds if you're trying to be super strict and trying to have the most range of motion possible and really arching into it and squeezing everything that you got. Versus somebody who's strong could use three, four plates, maybe even more by getting a little body English into it. And, uh, so what if you work your lower back, hamstrings and glutes while you're working your lats? You look at the best, best bodybuilders. Look at Ronnie.

Was his form perfect? Right. No. Was Jay Cutler's form perfect? No. I can go on and on and on. All right. With top guys.

And it's not about having perfect form. You know, this picture, there's a certain point where, yeah, if you get too crazy, you're going to get hurt. But if you're still in control of the weight, you're still feeling the muscle contract. You're getting the burn. You're getting the pump. That's all it is. And these people want to criticize. I'm like, well, what have you done? Where's your resume? What have you won? How do you look? Right. Yeah. On YouTube, you're going to see a lot of negative comments, man, they're

just chucking the weight around. What are they doing? Um, do you feel, you mentioned, you know, kind of getting a pump and you mentioned the feel. So you sometimes will, you know, if, especially in something like a squat, you know, if you squat a plate and you move really slow or you squat two plates and you move really slow and you're trying to contract everything, you can feel you could feel and concentrate everything on everything but if you try like four or five plates it's kind of harder to to concentrate it's like your whole now your whole body's involved

did you do a little bit of both in your training did you did you sometimes reduce the weight and and move uh at a different tempo absolutely or did or did you like to just you know go heavy heavy no i think i think that's another thing. Most of the stuff that was filmed, I think it was out there was me going super. That's what people want to see. Yeah. High intensity. That's what they want to see.

They, you know. You doing flies with 45 pound dumbbells, like. That's just boring. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they, they want to see branch, you know, going fucking nuts, you know, shoulder pressing 365 for 10, 12 reps or something. I mean, that's what, that's what they want to see branch, you know, going fucking nuts, you know, shoulder pressing 365 for 10, 12

reps or something. I mean, that's what, that's what they want to see. But yeah, we did, uh, I remember doing like leg extensions, you know, we'd come up, we'd hold for two, three seconds down for a second up and we do that for like three and five minutes sets, you know, and obviously you're

not going to be able to stack with that. You're doing a lot less weight and you're squeezing, contracting and doing this stuff. Um, super intense, you know, and then other days, sometimes, you know, you sometimes you can't overthink it. You know, these, all these, uh, internet warriors and these, uh, internet experts, which

could be a 12 year old kid in his fucking mama's basement, you know, jacking off to the Sears catalog. Um, you know, he's like criticizing you and you're like, who the hell are you to criticize anybody? You know, sometimes you can't overthink it, man.

You got to just. Jacking off to the Sears catalog would be very, would be very safe nowadays. So. In comparison to what you can jack off to. But sometimes, man, you got to just say, fuck it and go for it, man. Train, you know, give it a hundred percent. Right. I mean, there's something to be said for that. I mean, if you're doing bicep curls and you're doing, you know, super strict, super slow and tell me what you, if you do 10 reps and sit down or you freaking throw some weight on there and do fucking 15 or 20, everything you got, what do you think's harder?

Yeah. Yeah. You got to force it sometimes. That's it. You got to, you got to force it. You're not always going to, you know, a lot of people will talk about chasing the pump. And I think that's misunderstood too, because if you go in and you just try to get just a pump, like let's just say like in your chest. if that was the only focus and the focus was on keeping the reps clean and moving it slowly and getting a pump uh it's going to be hard to move into exercise number three four and five

whereas if you went heavier then you could later concentrate on getting that pump you can later concentrate on doing those reps on things like cable crossovers and some of the other movements so i think sometimes people maybe aren't realizing what those heavy weights can really do for them. And that's it. And that's like, you know, I think Ronnie Coleman said it best. Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but don't nobody want to lift no heavy ass weight. Amazing. Because it hurts.

It's so sad that that quote isn't in the documentary because I think it was like owned by somebody else, which I think is bullshit. Whoever owns that needs to give that shit up. But it's true, you know, and I don't know who said it first, but I know Ronnie. Yeah. That's where I heard it from. And it's true. I'll do it though, he said. Yeah.

And it works. So, and I would have never had the success I had, had I not trained as hard as I trained. If I trained, you know, this way, some of the internet experts say I would never achieve what I did. So I have no regrets. And what's weird about it too, is I, when you look at it, it looks chaotic. It looks, it looks nutty, right? But I actually think in some ways it's safer.

In some ways it's safer to try to push your body, those heavier weights. I mean, there's got to be days where something is not just like hurt or banged up. Something's actually injured and you have to move on to a different exercise. But for the most part, when you're doing these exercises and you're handling these big weights, to and and you're you're not under the weight for as long because the set can only last so long when you have 365 on an overhead press it can only last for so long correct and i my counter to this uh some of the stuff is during yates by the internet experts he has perfect form right he tore muscles in half yeah with his perfect form and ended his career right okay so um i never got hurt in the gym all managers were outside the gym He tore muscles in half. Yeah. With his perfect form and ended his career. Right.

Okay. So, um, I never got hurt in the gym. All my injuries were outside the gym doing other stuff. Yeah. Like getting bucked off a horse. Yeah. And just dumb shit. Right. So.

What the fuck was that? So, well, that's a whole nother story in itself. But, uh, but that's my whole point is like. That was, that was terrifying. They say, well, you know, getting, it wasn't the first time and wasn't the last time. So anybody has horses knows what I'm talking about. But, uh, you know, like old wasn't the first time and wasn't the last time. So anybody that has horses knows what I'm talking about. But, you know, like Doreen had perfect form. And Doreen's one of the people I look up to, man.

I'm not Chris, I don't have any way because I have nothing but respect for the man and his training style. But my point being is like, just because they said, oh, he got hurt. Well, guess what? I didn't get hurt in the gym, you know? And I was always in control of the weight. I always felt the weight. And if I couldn't control it and couldn't feel it, I wouldn't do it because I was very conscious of the fact

I didn't want to get hurt. And so. How does it make you feel to be, to have put everything on the line, to have made the sacrifices, to have suffered through all the workouts and stuff? I know that you love it, but how does it feel now to look back at it and say,

you know what? I was like, I was in that fucking upper echelon. I did a lot of the things I wanted to do. Does that feel good? You know, I did everything I want to do except win the Olympia. I won every other show in the world. And, um, I, I never enjoyed, I don't think I ever took time to take it in and enjoy it. Um, no matter what I did. What about now though, when somebody comes up, then they say, you're, you're the favorite branch, you're my favorite guy. Like you inspired me. I'm in bodybuilding because of you. It's very humbling because I remember when I was a young kid up and coming and I met

my first couple of pros as a teenager, you know, and, um, I was like, wow, man, that's incredible. You know, I met this guy, this guy. Right. And, um, I was, I met Lita Brada and, uh, cause because he was from houston and um i did his show when i was a teenager and um i mean he came up to me backstage after i won he talked to me for 20 minutes that's great and um i was like i was so impressed with him because he was a class act he was a gentleman he was super cool he i remember wow he took 20 minutes out of his time all these

people saying i want to get pictures with him and stuff and he stood there and talked to me for like 15 20 minutes a very successful businessman as well. Correct. He had a lot of things going on. I was like, wow, that really impressed me. And so now, you know, fast forward 20 something years and I've got kids that do that, you know, come up to me and look at me the same way I was looking at like someone like him. And so it's very humbling. And I don't, you know, you're a role model whether you want to be or not.

Yeah. So I accepted that a long time ago and, you know, you're a role model whether you want to be or not. Yeah. So I accepted that a long time ago. And, you know, try to always take time and be very appreciative of the position I have. You ever run into any negativity? Like just, you know, just like anybody said anything to you? Are you too, I think maybe you're too big for anybody to actually say anything. But do you hear like whispers or like steroids or like, you know,

somebody just, I don't know, maybe just have, you know, judging you the wrong way or whatever. Man, there's always gonna be negativity in the world. There's a lot of negativity in the world,

but I encounter very, not too much of it. Yeah. Not too much of it. So guy that kills pigs with his hand, bare hands is probably not going to run into a lot of people that are going to say stuff. What, what's up with that?

What's up with this hunting? We had John Bartolo on. We had a few others on that are friends with you. And they said something along the lines of, you mentioned there's nothing like killing something with your bare hands. Well, yeah. So where I grew up at. By the way, I watched First Blood last night and there's that scene where Stallone jumps out of the tree onto the wild boar with that giant knife. And I was picturing you. I was like, that's who I'm talking to tomorrow.

I guess if you're hungry enough, you do what you got to do. But no, it's where I grew up, man. It wasn't a lot to do. So I think you drank beer and you hunted. So that was about all there was to do, man. So I kind of, that's how I grew up, you know, just because that's where I was from. Sounds very Stone Cold Steve Austin of you.

Well, you know what? Stone Cold grew up not too far from where I grew up. Yeah, sounds like it. I was talking to him one time and I said, he goes, like, are you from Texas, right? And he told me where he's at. And I said, yeah, I grew up about 40, 50 miles from there. And he goes, he said the same thing.

He goes, wasn't enough to do, but hunt deer and drink beer. I'm like, pretty much. Yeah. So, um, that's how I grew up. And, um, so the whole hunting thing, you know, it's just, that's how we did it, man. We hunted wild boars, used dogs, you know, they track it down and then, uh, you get it caught and you stick it with your knife, kill it and take it home.

Go make pork chops. Bring home the, gives new meaning to bringing home the bacon. Yeah, really does. I've taken Bartolo. I took Bartolo and I took, uh, took Dorian and Flex Lewis, uh, on a hunt. Um, I think Guy Cisternino is going to, we're going to take him on one here soon. Did, uh, did you learn some of this from family members or? Yeah, my family, uh, did it.

Of course, Brian Dobson. He's a, he's a big, big hunter. He has a, he really, uh, that's his favorite thing to do, I think. Yeah. Was, uh, go hunt, hunt wild boars. And, um, it's very challenging. It's, um, it's, to my opinion, it's true

hunting. Yeah. Um, it's kind of how they, that's what dogs. With a knife. Yeah. And that's what dogs were. That's some serious shit right there. You know, dogs were, dogs were domesticated

thousands of years ago for hunting purposes, hunting and protection. So, and that's what, you know, that's why early men domesticated dogs, wolves, I guess, and made them into dogs. I hate to say it,

but I'd just go hungry. I wouldn't be able to, I would fucking suck at it. You'd have to, you'd have to show me, you'd have to teach me. Yeah, it's, it's, you know,

there's nothing wrong with hunting as long as you're hungry. You'd be like, Mark, you got to catch something soon, dude. You're down 150 pounds. Wouldn't have any energy at that point. I'd be like, oh my God.

It's a total rush, man. It's, it's fun. And there's nothing wrong with hunting as long as you eat the meat. You know, you don't, you don't kill an animal and waste it. That's right. That's not cool. How do you get to them? You got to trap them or something? How do you get to them?

Yeah. You just go out on the land, like in Texas. I don't know how many millions of hogs there are. Fucking just chase one down. Yeah. You go out to a land and they're very destructive to the farmers. They destroy their crops, man. Right.

Really bad. So the farmers are like, yeah, they go get them, all of them. And so we have bay dogs. Farmers want you to get them. Yeah. They want you to. Yeah. Because, I mean, if you're a farmer and that's how you make your living and this hog does 10, 20,

$30,000 of damage to your crops. Yeah. That's a lot of money to a farmer. Eating like a bunch of pigs. Exactly. So, uh, they, uh, we have bay dogs. They, uh, you know, like hound dogs, curs, they smell them, they track them down and they start

barking at them. And, uh, you got to keep up close enough so we can hear the dogs bark. And we also have GPS collars on them. And, uh, you got to keep up close enough so we can hear the dogs bark. And we also have GPS collars on them. And, uh, then we have either a pit bull or American bulldog, and we put Kevlar vests on them. You know, the, the bulletproof. Yeah.

The vests we have made for them, and a cut collar to protect them. They go in and catch it. And then, uh, you get in there, and once he's got it, got it, he's on it. Right. He ain't really, he ain't going nowhere. You got a hundred pound bulldog in there.

And then you give him about a back leg, stretch him out, stick him in. Wow. I didn't know that. A bulldog is strong enough to. That's what, yeah, bulldogs are, they're just a bigger pit bull. Yeah.

But a wild boar, I mean, aren't they pretty bigger? Yeah. I mean, I've killed wild boars of 350 pounds. Yeah. They get even bigger than that. But you get a hundred pound American bulldog plant down on your ear, you ain't running away.

That's pretty crazy. I didn't know they, I didn't know they had the strength to do that. Yeah. Bulls, the bulldogs and pit bulls are really cool, man. You know, I really would get attached to them because they're the gladiators, man.

And they, when you see them, you realize this is what they were. They're just fearless. They're fearless, man. they're the gladiators, man. And when you see them, you realize this is what they were. They're just fearless. They're fearless, man. They're true gladiators. And once you turn them loose, they won't quit. Yeah. I mean, a bulldog or a pit bull does not know quit. Were you able to hunt like that when you were competing?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, you were still able to do it. Yeah, I always hunted. It doesn't sound like you got too far away from your contest body weight usually, huh? No, I never got too heavy because I was very blessed to do a lot of guest posings. You know, so I want to stay in shape for that. And, you know, we go up to show, you know, stage. I mean, your body is your product.

Right. You know, so, you know, I always had to be available for videos and photos and stuff like that for the sponsors and things like that. Yeah, it helps. And, um, you know, if you keep your condition good, that helps. And, um, you know, I would do a lot of guest buildings. And, um, so, um, I always, I never wanted to go on stage when I was fat, fat slob. Everything that goes into bodybuilding, have you ever got yourself in some compromising situations? You ever like passed out or gotten, you know, crazy sick or

anything like that ever happened to you? What do you mean? That compromising situation? Yeah, like from maybe taking too many stimulants or taking too much of the other stuff or just, you know, passing out during a workout because you don't have enough calories or just. Never passed out. I don't think I've ever passed out in my life, actually. So just some sort of crazy,

I know some guys get like these crazy cramps and stuff because maybe they're not hydrated or. I want to say the worst thing that ever happened to me, I think was in 2001 at the national championships. I was competing. I was a heavyweight. Actually, Johnny Jackson was a lot heavyweight and we both went on to win our pro

cards that night. But, uh, the night before the show, I, uh, I never cramped before. Um, there was some of my best conditionings. I never took any diuretic. I just, you know, a week or two out from the show, I would be like ready basically. And wouldn't, uh, wasn't something I, if I

needed it, I didn't, if I didn't need it, I didn't take it. Right. And, um, so, um, actually, actually, I cramped up really bad. So, before that show. Stomach, calves? Well, to tell you the story, I got up, I started pissing, right? And I just kept pissing.

So, one of the stuff I took wasn't what it was supposed to be. And, you know, one of them kind of deals your buddy says, yeah, take this. And you're like, what is it? And he's like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah,

well, I'm like, after about 20, 30 minutes of continual pissing, I'm like, this ain't what this is supposed to be. And, um,

so I just kept on and on and on. And I remember I was in the hotel bathroom there and my quad cramps up like locks. Wow. Then the other quad, and I'm like, fuck. And I'm still,

I'm in the toilet. And then my abs cramp. I't walk and uh so i call my buddy that shit's terrifying and uh he comes and he helps me get to the freaking bed i couldn't i mean i was legs were rock hard i couldn't move he got me in the bed and i'm like dude i'm hurting like i don't know if you ever cramp like that but it is it is miserable yeah and um I'm laying there and I'm like, dude, it just got worse and worse. He pulled the freaking. It's insane how scary that is. Yeah.

You're just thinking, oh, it's a Charlie horse or muscle cramp. It's like, no, no, no. And the thing, the thing was, as cramped as I was, I didn't think there was any way it could get worse. It just got more and more tense. And I'm like, he turned the lights on.

He's like, bro, look at you, man. You're freaking ripped, man. You're going to win. I'm like, I'm going lights on. He's like, bro, look at you, man. You're freaking ripped, man. You're going to win. I'm like, I'm going to die, bro. Call 911.

He's like, no way, bro. You're going to win. You ain't never look like this. And I go, man, look at your legs. I'm like,

I can't look at my legs because my abs are cramped. I can't, I'm just laying on the bed and my quads are cramped. My hamstrings were cramped. So imagine that your quads are pulling your leg this way.

Your hamstrings are trying to pull them back. You can't figure out which way to go yeah and then my chest started cramping and i moved over and my chest just locked up and i'm like oh this ain't good and um i'm like dude seriously i go call 911 he's like no way dude because you're gonna win i go i'm gonna die i go call 911 so this dude gives me a bottle of ketchup it's like here man take this i'm like so i've got one hand. I'm like, suck this ketchup down.

And of course, it's one of them glass bottles. So it don't just squirt out. You know, I'm like hitting it against my teeth trying to get it to come out. And I can't use this hand. So I'm like a one-armed idiot trying to suck ketchup out of a bottle. And he's like, I go, hey, man, you got to do something. He calls our friend. And he goes, he's got something to make you quit, man, you got to do something. He calls our friend. And he goes, oh, he's got something.

Let me get you quit cramping. All right, cool. Well, he leaves. And dude, he's gone forever. And I'm like, the hell is this dude? And I'm like trying to get to the phone, but I'm so cramped up, I literally can't get to the phone. And he finally shows up. He comes back.

He's sweating. He's like all disheveled looking and stuff. I'm like, he gives me whatever this stuff is. is and i'm crying i guess and i take it and i start to relax and feel better and uh finally after i get recovered and he's like man you good i go man i'm better than i was and uh i go yo man what the hell took you so long bro i go what the hell man he goes oh man i was on the way out and i met this girl i knew and she's like hey you want to come in for a minute he goes man i had to run it in there real quick i'm like are you freaking kidding me man you couldn't bring this stuff back to me and then go do that and he's like man so uh i win the show the next night when the heavyweights and uh johnny was right you're

gonna win and so i won he comes up to me after the show he goes you're gonna thank me or what i go for what he goes if it wasn't for me, you wouldn't be pro, man. You went to the hospital, got out of view, and you won a one. I'm like, man, get out of here. Yeah. Well, you know, you need, you need, uh, you need people by you to support you when you go on through things like that. Like, you know, in powerlifting, a lot of guys will do these big weight cuts.

You see it all the time in MMA. And, uh, people need to be, they need to pay attention and you'd be careful. And that's good that you had, at least you had somebody to call. Absolutely. You, you definitely, uh, I always tell guys, girls too, we go to shows, you'd have a buddy with you. Yeah.

Don't go by yourself. Yeah. You got to. Fuck yourself. So it was a learning experience. That was the last time that happened. What are some things that you're able to carry over from bodybuilding just into your everyday life and maybe even into business?

You know, I tell people all the time, everything I have in my life is because of bodybuilding. Because bodybuilding taught me the discipline, the work ethic, and the determination, and the ability. It gave me the ability to overcome that I've taken. I've applied that to my marriage. I've applied it to my business. And it's made me successful in all areas. Take that intensity that you use on the overhead shoulder presses into the bedroom. Satisfaction guaranteed.

Yeah, you got to go all in, right? That's it. But no, that's what bodybuilding has taught me. When you met your wife, were you already this into bodybuilding? My wife was 19 when I met her. She was a cheerleader at North Texas and I was 24. So I wasn't pro yet, but I was about to be. So she already, like the bodybuilding was already part of everything.

Yeah. And, you know, she came to the gym because, you know, fitness had just came out. That was the newest, newest thing. And of course, you know, a lot of women that really brought a lot of women back into the sport when fitness came out. That was the newest, newest thing. And of course, you know, a lot of women, that really brought a lot of women back into the sport when fitness came out. And, um, she,

you know, with her, uh, cheerleading, gymnastics background, she, uh, she turned pro,

pro at very young. I think she was 20 or 21 when she, she turned pro and, at the nationals in Dallas, she actually turned pro the year after I did.

Yeah. And, uh, she was there, uh, she was actually there. And, uh,

when I turned pro in 2001, we weren't together, but, um, so we were just friends, but, um, so yeah, she turned pro and, um. How did, how did some of that dynamic work? Was that, was that, I mean, I would imagine for the most part is positive, but did it get negative here and there? Like maybe when you were dieting or she was dieting, did it, did it cause some problems here and there or was it okay?

It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. But, you know, for her, I'm a pretty intense dude, as you could probably imagine. And so when I would, you know, as that diet would wear on me sometimes, I'd get pretty moody. Yeah. And she's just, she's very laid back, very pretty chill. So she always put me first, even when we were training for the Olympia Arnold together. She helped you with meal prep and those kinds of things. She did.

You know, she took over my meal prep from day one. And, um, the first argument we ever got into, I was training for the, we just got married and I was training for the Arnold Classic. I said six ounces of chicken.

What the fuck? This is eight ounces. I'm going to lose this show. So that's about how it went. And, uh, we, uh, I'm getting ready for this show. So that's about how it went. I'm getting ready for this.

I always cook my own food, right? And I used to cook twice a week. I cook on Sunday enough food to get me through to a Wednesday. Wednesday night, I cook again to get me through to a Sunday. I ate cold, nasty food out of a Tupperware and I didn't give a damn because I was on a mission and I was eating for protein and carbs. Who cares, right? I didn't care, right? Well, she came in and we got married and she just took over cooking everything. And my wife can cook really good.

I didn't know they made girls like that anymore. I thought that like dad was my mother and that generation, but yeah, she could cook really good. These girls today, you got to watch out. So, I mean, most girls now, most guys don't know how to boil water. So, but so it was, that was a match made in heaven because she liked to cook. I like to eat. Yeah. That was good.

But, uh, anyway, um, she started cooking and so, you know, my chicken was tasting awesome and, uh, all my, all my food was. And so I started training for the show and I'm like, I'm eating this food and it's like, it's awesome. And she would bring me hot meals throughout the day.

I'm like. This tastes too good. What the fuck is going on? That's, that's what I finally said. I finally, I'm like, yo, what the hell are you putting in my food, man? She goes, nothing. I go, bullshit. I said, man, are you trying to sabotage me?

I said, it's the Arnold Classic. I said, you putting this bullshit in my food? I said, I'm going to lose. I said, and I'm mad, right? And she's like, you're out of your mind. And I'm like, so I made her show me. I stood right there and watched her cook. And she's like, she showed me what she's putting in it.

I'm like, oh, okay. It's like garlic or something. So I had to apologize and kiss butt for a while. But yeah, my life took a, my quality of life took a huge step forward because of her being in my life and eating good food. A lot of people don't understand the amount of, you know, people talk about like meal prep, but there's just a lot of preparation in general. Like what I'm noticing with myself is it's hard. It's hard for me to get to bed on time because I try to prepare as much stuff as I can for the next day. So I don't have to do it in the morning.

I don't mind waking up early. Um, I don't mind waking up early, but a lot of times as a, as you start to do some bodybuilding, you know, early is like redefined. You know, a lot of bodybuilders are waking up before 4am. And when you wake up that early, no matter how much sleep you uh, the situations settled, uh, even like the supplements, trying to put those in certain spots and, um, ready to go and, and all that kind of stuff. And then even my clothes and, and things like that. Um, a lot of people don't realize that, that a

lot of the preparation just for the next day, uh, can, can cost you a lot of time. Yes. That's very difficult to, to schedule everything. What, what time would you usually, uh, wake up when your day start? Well, like I was saying, I would cook twice a week because of that. Cause if you don't, if you're going to bodybuild and be successful at it, you have to plan ahead. You know, so if, like you say, if you don't prepare your food the night before for the next day, you sleep in or your alarm doesn't go off.

Now all of a sudden you don't have your food cause you don't have time cause you've got to get to work or whatever. And then you're pissed. Then you're mad as hell. And so it's a problem. So. Yeah, you're really mad. But I think the good thing about that is, uh, you learn from it, you know, you learn from it.

Or, or if you go out to eat, you go out to eat with some buddies and you're like, ah, I'm sure it'll work out okay. And then you, you're like, well, fuck that didn't, that was, didn't match up with the way I was supposed to do it. No. And then you're mad, but you're mad for a little bit.

And then you're just mad at yourself and you're like, oh, I got to do better than that. I'll learn the hard way. Just like everybody does. And, uh, I got to where no matter where I go to restaurants, I have my topper with me. Didn't matter where it was. And they're like, dude, you know, people are like, dude, you're bringing that in here. I'm like, yeah, I am. And I would, I didn't matter.

You just get where you don't care because you've got to take care of you. And it goes back to that. Don't let nobody at work you. And, um, so I would always prepare all my food and I would get up at three 45, four o'clock in the morning because I had to be at work at 5. AM,

open my gym and I have my gym. And, um, I saw it get up. I do my cardio. The only, the only hot meal I would get all day was, uh,

my breakfast. I cook egg whites and oatmeal. I throw it in the same pan, cook it all up, doing a big Tupperware, grab my chicken out of the refrigerator and rice, potatoes. See Smokey? Got you on the right path, buddy. And, uh. I had him come down to LA and, uh, he had some, uh, oatmeal and egg whites with me at like three in the morning, right? Yeah.

Because, you know, you're, you're so hungry, you know, and I had to do cardio. I still had to come back, take a shower, you know, so 345, they gave me enough time to get up, do cardio, cook breakfast, take a shower and get to work. Yeah. You end up having to take a lot of showers, cardio. And did you do a lot of cardio? Like as a contest got closer or did you not have to use that much of it? Early on because of lack of knowledge, you

know, as I learned more about nutrition and the whole process, I would only do 20 minutes a day. You know, I'd walk, walk my dog for 20 minutes in the morning and that was about it. I would do step mills sometimes for 20 minutes, had a step mill in my garage and I would do that sometimes.

But early on, because I didn't know, I'd do an hour, hour and a half, but I would always, I'd lose on, because I didn't know, I'd do an hour, hour and a half, but I would always, uh, I'd lose my fullness and I couldn't, I was trying to figure out how, how can I get, come down and maintain this fullness and the size and I still get lean. And, um, so I finally, I said, you know, I theorized in my head, why can't I just do, this isn't really cardio. This is just a burn body fat. So why don't I, why don't you just use it to stimulate your metabolism in the morning to get your metabolism going? And, you know, you're not trying to run a marathon. Just almost a way for your body to accept more nutrients for the day. Yeah.

And so once I cut it back, I cut it back to 45 minutes. It worked. I cut it back to 30. Now I tried 20 minutes and it worked and I stayed full. You know, I think, uh, I think 2009 was the first time I cut it back to just 20 minutes. Yeah. I almost won the Olympia. What about double training sessions?

Any of those? Man, I never did double training sessions. Um, you know, I just went in and just let it out and that was it. So I always had to, you know, always worked, uh, no matter, you know, even was at the top of my career, I always had a business, so I had to work. So, uh, you know, I could have just stayed home and watch sports center and play video games like a lot of guys do. That ain't me.

So was it hard not to be influenced by others? Like as you were climbing a ladder and you saw maybe, you know, what, uh, Ronnie was doing or Jay Cutler, or you see some of these guys, uh, when you saw maybe, you know, what Ronnie was doing or Jay Cutler, or you see some of these guys, uh, when you heard someone, you know, say, oh, I do 90 minutes of cardio every day, or you heard something crazy. Was it hard for you not to want to try that or to lift like Ronnie Coleman every training

session? Not at all. I knew what worked for me. And, um, you know, I knew, you know, some of the best advice I got early on was whatever you did to get to this point, it's going to get you to the next level too.

So keep doing it. I saw so many guys come up, they would progress really well. Also in the pro. Now they're looking for that magic formula or magic pill or whatever. And there is no magic formula or magic pill. Except for Trent. He said that,

not me. But there is. Well said nonetheless. Yeah. So, I mean, if, if,

if it got you to this point and whatever you're doing, if you got pro by doing this, then to keep moving up the ranks, just keep doing what you're doing. Right. You know, that's actually an amazing concept because it, I think everybody,

especially nowadays with social media, you got the anxiety of, oh man, I got it. I just saw what that guy did or that girl did. Now I, fuck, I got to do that. Like you just, you automatically are jumping, right?

And then you never even really, maybe you never even really invested enough time into what you were doing. Well, how many, how many professional athletes, amateurs too, every show they get ready for, they use a different trainer, different nutritionist. Well, it takes a while for the nutritionist to learn your body too, if he's good.

You know what I mean? Some nutritionists just give a cookie cutter plan to everybody and whatever, hit and miss. But a good nutritionist is going to tailor that plan to you. And it usually takes a little while to get it right. You know, I'd never worked with anybody until I worked with George Farah and, uh, starting in 2009, there for several years. And, you know, actually we got it right right off the bat. And, but he knew, you know, he tailored it right right off the bat and but he knew you know he tailored the plan just for me i mean what he had kyle doing or this person doing was different and um you know and i stayed with him you know for a while he gave me that extra little little bit you know i was

winning pro shows and doing well but i wasn't i knew i needed that next little step and uh you know i talked to him for several months before i agreed to work with him. And, um, he gave me that little extra bit, made a few little tweaks and changes and, um, my nutrition program and it worked. Um, his biggest thing was he got me to eat way more food and I thought I was eating a lot of food and he increased my calories and carbs tremendously. What do calories usually look like? I never counted calories, I guess, but I counted carbs. You know, I thought a high carb day was like 300, 350. You know, this dude had me eating like six, seven, 800 grams of carbs. I mean, it was like, it was a struggle to get the food in.

And, uh, and you're on a diet. So speaking, I'm like the first time I worked with him for the Olympia in 09, Trish looked at me and she's cooking this food for me. She goes, are you going to be able to get in shape eating all this? And I said, well, we'll find out real quick. I go in the next two weeks, if I don't start making positive changes, then we're going to have to make adjustments. And, you know, a couple of weeks went by and I'm like, wow, man, this is working. Yeah. And plus your energy level, your strength, your fullness was just incredible.

That's something that's always like undersold is the workouts. then that's always, uh, like undersold is, is the workouts. You know, if you're, if your workouts are better, shit, then you're going to make a lot of progress and a lot of, in a lot of different areas. If, if you can just put more into your workout. So even if, even if there's a little extra energy being put in, uh, if you're able to, uh, have more output, more bang for your buck, you have to lift more weight.

You're able to stimulate the muscles more. You're able to, you know, uh, have more output. Yes. More bang for your buck. You're able to lift more weight. You're able to stimulate the muscles more. You're able to, you know, uh, you're able to recover from each workout too. That's the biggest thing is, um, you know,

if you're doing super low carbs, your recovery ability is going to be hindered. Yeah. And so I think the heavier you train or the more intense you train, and the more you tear down the muscle, if you don't have sufficient carbohydrates, you're not going to recover like you should. What about some of the, you know, amino acids

and supplementation, you know, you got perinutrition, which is pre and during and post exercise nutrition, usually through some sort of liquid like amino acid formula or carbohydrate formula. Did you employ any of that? Was any of that successful for you? I always drink protein shakes.

Generally, I would have two a day. I have one in the morning, and I have one after I worked out on the way home. I drink the second one. As far as the, I'd always eat a meal before I train, usually an hour or so before I went to the gym. During the workout, no way. I wasn't going to stop my workout to do anything, man. Once I was focused on it, I'm there to train. Right.

Just mainly water. Drink water, yeah. Metroflex is super hot most of the year, so you have to drink a lot of water. But afterwards, like I said, I have protein shake. I drive home, have a meal. water. But afterwards, like I said, I have protein shake. I drive home, have a meal.

As soon as I got wherever I was going, I used to take a lot of amino acids, branched chain amino acids. It was always a part of my program. And there was a certain period of time I used to do, I used to take pre-workouts. You know, there was a, early on there was some really good pre-workouts, especially when you had, you could do the caffeine, ephedra, aspirin. I mean, that was the best.

And, uh, but you know, all that stuff you can't do now. So, yeah, I mean, so it worked. It was effective for burning body fat too. Yeah. I was like 15. I was going to like the, it was like, uh, just a convenience store, but we called it Effie Mart because ephedrine. So we called it

Effie Mart and we'd go to the, we'd go there and we'd get mini thins. And it was like a pack of like six, like I had no business taking that. I would just didn't know what the fuck I was doing. And, you know, for good reason, they pulled it off the shelf because idiots like me were downing way too much of it. We had a chemist at the gym and he made pure ephedrine,

pure caffeine. And so I would take a, he'd put a scooper in each one so we'd know exactly how much to take. People would take it with like aspirin. Yeah, that's what we did. I'll get my coffee on the way to the gym. I'd take a scoop of ephedrine, take a scoop of aspirin or caffeine, put extra caffeine in my coffee, take an aspirin, drink all this. By the time I got to the gym, I was ready to run through the hall. I had sweat dripping off me by the time I got to the gym.

I was ready to kill it. I don't think you can find it. It's like hard to find. You can't get it no more. Let me Google it. Damn. We got to bring that shit back. I remember back in the day

there was Ultimate Orange. You ever try that stuff? Oh yeah. That stuff made you go absolutely insane. It was nuts. Yeah. Like it literally made the back of your head tingle somehow.

But it got you ready for your workout. Yes it did. Yeah. Now there's a lot of different pre-workout things that have like make your skin all red and all kinds of, all kinds of craziness. What about like vitamins, minerals? Yeah, all those vitamins, minerals. Even to this day, I'll take vitamins and minerals twice a day. I feel that it's necessary when you're doing bodybuilding because without the

fat calories in there, you're not able to get the nutrient-dense foods. You're on such a restricted diet. I think you miss out on a lot of the

trace minerals and some of the things that you need. There's kind of just no other way to get it. So you've got to do it. Now, the problem with most vitamins, you

don't absorb all of them, so I think you'd probably always try to double up or even more because a lot of them just get passed through. So you've got to be very careful. A lot of, a lot of companies, their vitamins get almost no absorption.

Right. So, um, gotta be very selective of which ones you choose, but, uh, they're, I think an essential part. Was there anything that you, that you took that you really liked, uh, that you felt made a big difference? Like there's a, like digestive enzymes, uh. People are big nowadays on vitamin D because it seems to help people from not getting sick. Some people like magnesium and zinc. They think it helps them sleep. Digestive enzymes pre-contest were great

because, you know, eating all that protein. Right. You know, your stomach gets bloated, a lot of gas, this kind of stuff. You know, so digestive enzymes made a big difference. You know, my wife found some real good ones. And I don't think.

Yeah, she's like, we got to do something about this. So that made a big. You. And I don't think. Yeah, she's like, we got to do something about this. So, yeah, that made up Jake. You can buy those special charcoal underwear. Yeah. You guys don't know about those? I don't. There's underwear that can like filter it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. I think it kills bacteria too, don't it? Yeah, I hope it kills something. You still have your gym? I sold my gym several years ago. So we had to open a freight company, like I said, about 12 years ago. We sold that a couple years ago.

Yeah. And so now I've got Wicked Cuts I'm focusing on. I've got, of course, Black Skull Nutrition. Got my own product line, full supplement line through them. And then I've got four sports expos I promote. I've got the Branch Warren Classic in Houston. Uh, got, uh, I've got a show in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Yeah. We got to make it down on one of those. Smokey doesn't like Texas though. He's got, I don't know, something like he doesn't like people from Texas or something. I don't know. He's got something. That's just wrong.

Yeah. It's just, uh, you know, you'll have, you'll have to talk to him privately probably about it, but it's a weird thing. He's got one September 22nd. We've got one September 22nd. We've got one in Chicago, me and Mel Chancey, or co-promoting that one in Chicago. And then we've got one in Dallas in October. Do you still help anybody with bodybuilding?

You got some kids that you help out or some different people that you coach or whatever? Man, very, very few. Probably no more than one or two people I help. So, just, you know, I don't mind. Like you said, most of these kids don't want to put the work in. You know, if I find somebody that's really willing to eat nails and train hard, then absolutely I help them. So, you know, I would definitely like to give back. What's your training like nowadays?

Man, we still train. Still train with Johnny. I've probably missed my workouts in the past six months enough. I know that I've ever missed in my life, you know, with my work schedule and my travel schedule. It's pretty chaotic, but I still train, man. Not so much. Does it in some weird way? I know that it's frustrating when you don't get a chance to work out, but in some weird way, does it feel good sometimes to not have to be so accountable for it?

It does. It does. At first, no. At first I felt guilty. The first year I was- Moping around the house. Yeah. The first year I was retired, it was weird, man.

I was like still like a, I used to call myself, I was like a Nazi, man, about working out. Nothing got in the way of it. If you're training, you pulled out a cell phone, dude, you're about to get my wrath. And, uh, cause you're here to train, not take pictures. So, uh, I used to go nuts on that stuff, man. But, uh, now it's, uh, now that it took about a year to get adjusted to it. I missed it the first year.

I sat there and I thought several times, maybe I should just come back and do another one. You know, I thought about just doing one more show. Just because when I did the Arnold, that last show, I didn't beforehand, I wasn't for sure if this was going to be my last show. So I think I would have liked the opportunity to train for one more show and knowing this is it. Right. And, but.

Do you still do some guest posing? Man, I did my last guest posing last year. Actually, yeah. Was it last year? Yeah. Last year. So, um, I think that I did the Phoenix Europa guest posing for Ed and, Ed and Betty, the promoters there.

Yeah. Um, and that was it. So no loss. So I have a, like I said, I'm, I probably lost 30 pounds from my competitive days. Who's your favorite bodybuilder of all time? Like who inspired you the most before you got to know everybody?

Cause it's a little different now. Um, I'll give you two answers to that. Um, I think Rich Gasparri and Dorian Yates. Yeah. One of my two favorite. Now Ronnie, um, he inspired me too, but for, it was different because I knew him.

You know, I got to actually, you know, I saw him every day in the gym. You know, he inspired me because he was doing,

I'm like, it's working for him. He's coming from this gym. I'm like, if it worked for him, it's going to work for me.

But, you know, Rich, you know, he inspired me because he wasn't the most genetically gifted bodybuilder, but his

intensity and work ethic is what really motivated me. And then what he did after his career, he was even more successful after his career with what he did with Gaspar Nutrition and things. I don't know, he was, I think even as he was in his competitive career. Don't inspire me because he beat everybody because

he beat guys like flex and sean and kevin because he was just a badass i mean this dude trained like a freaking beast he didn't give two shits about publicity or money he came out of his little dungeon he showed up he beat everybody and he disappeared he was always all covered up yeah you know he he did it for the right reasons big old baggy uh clothes. He trained in rags. He didn't care. Yeah. Training his ass off.

He was the ultimate, in my opinion, the ultimate bodybuilder. Hardcore bodybuilder because he did not care about all the fame, the money, any of that stuff. He was there to be Mr. Olympia. He showed up. He won. He went back to his gym, his little dungeon, and he trained. It was definitely a really cool time too because if you remember at that time, a lot of the, some of the best bodybuilders were coming out of Gold's Gym in Venice and to have him be able to beat everybody, just focused in, just, just, just training, you know, kind of by himself. He'd have a spot or something like that here and there.

I think that's why he beat everybody because he wasn't in that scene. Yeah. You know, cause that, the 90s in Venice was crazy. Yeah. You know, and so. Well, those guys probably had crazy. Yeah. You know, and, um, so. Well, those guys probably had a, you know, a lot of, you know, they probably had a lot of distractions. They did.

You probably didn't have any. That's why, you know, when I turned pro in 2001, had the opportunity to, to move out there. And I remember going there and hanging out for a week or two. I'm like, oh hell no, I'm going back to Texas. So, uh, you know, I'm going back to my dirty little sweat box and that's where I'm going to stay. And, uh, I think, you know, I think that's the

reason he was so successful because he was there away from all that and he stayed totally 100% focused. He showed up, took care of business and went back home. I used to love watching those, uh, old videos, old blood and guts videos. And I remember the, uh, the book they put out

and stuff. And at that time I was just so obsessed with trying to learn more about the training methods and everything. And I was like, what is this Mike Menser thing? What is this, you know, one set all out? You mentioned failure a couple times. But when I'm watching some of your stuff, I'm not seeing a lot of like assisted stuff. Is it your failure? Or, you know, is it you're going to, are you going to rep shy?

Like what, what is your kind of definition for you? Um. Or is it just all out, complete annihilation? All out annihilation, brother. I mean, whether that's all you can do by yourself or, uh, whether you have your partner assist you. So a little, little, little mix. Yeah.

I mean, you know, some things it's not really practical to squat on, but to spot on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, so if you're doing bench press or incline bench or something, you know, some things it's not really practical to squat on, but to spot on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so if you're doing bench press or incline bench or something, you know, I usually have a spot and I'd get four reps. You know, if you're doing bicep curls, it don't really make sense to have somebody spot you on

dumbbell curls. Yeah. So you just go until you can't do no more. And so I usually, my working set, I usually always try to take to the very max, get all I could out of it. So that's hard to do mentally because there's days you come in the gym, you just have it. Some days you're just like, fuck.

So to mentally prepare yourself to do that every time, that was the biggest challenge. Was there anybody you trained with or that you've been around who is just a flat-out genetic mutant? Not that they didn't work hard, but just super responder. They just kind of respond, like they start doing something, start dieting and boom, they're in shape. Some of my contemporaries I competed against were. Yeah, I mean, one guy in particular, I mean, I'd watch him train. I'm like, how the hell does he look like that and train like that?

And he would, you know, I mean, we'd do appearances together. He'd refuse to train with me. He's like, no way, dude, I ain't doing that shit. And he goes, and I go,

you don't ever train? And he's like, no. I mean, my wife lifts more weights than he does, you know? And,

and he outweighs her about a hundred pounds or more, probably more than that actually. But, and I'm just like, to this day, I can't criticize him.

I'm not going to criticize him because it worked for him. Right. And he's been one of the most successful bodybuilders in the history of the sport and it works for him. If I train like that,

I'll still weigh 150 pounds. Yeah, you got to be smart and you got to stay in your own lane. Having Jay Cutler here on the show was awesome. You know, he said when he was young,

he got into pushing some heavier weight. As he got a little older, he's just like, you know, I just learned, you know, it doesn't always have to be the heaviest weight, but I had to get some stimulus and he would get into those weights and he would, uh, you know, quickly move out of them. And luckily for him, he didn't end up with many injuries. He had like bicep tear towards the end there or whatever. But, uh, for the most part, he was able to stay, uh, you know, away from, you know, a lot of the injuries that they end up running into.

As you got ready for a show, did your training train quite a bit? Because the energy is less because you're just having maybe less calories or? I didn't really vary my training much. I think I'll let the diet and do the job, you know. So just like whatever you had for the day though, like whatever, whatever amount of energy

you had to put into that workout, you were okay with it if not being as epic as six weeks prior or something like that? If you're three weeks out, you're also not going to train the way you would

if you were 12 weeks out. Right. You know, that's just common sense dictates you're going to get hurt and you're not going to be able to do that because, uh, you know, your strength is going to decrease because you've lost weight. You're, you know, your body fat's down.

So, uh, but intensity wise, I still brought it, man. Um, that was, uh, the thing is, you know, with me and Johnny, I remember those days we came into the gym, like, Hey man, we're going to cut back a little bit today. It never happened. Never happened. Yeah. You're, hey, man, we're going to cut back a little bit today. It never happened. Never happened. Yeah, you're planning it out, trying to be all smart. Yeah. What do you got, Andrew?

You guys had touched on it just very briefly. But like I was telling you before the show, when I was telling some friends and family, like, dude, we're going to have Branch Warren on. Like, dude, that rings a bell. Like, you watch Generation Iron, right? It's like, yeah, the dude that got bucked off the horse oh yeah that's the guy but i had heard that you kind of had told the camera crew like hey like give my horse some space and then they ended up kind of messing with the horse again but that was all here like you know someone else's story so what exactly happened well man they uh they came to my house and, uh, cause we have horses there.

I've got four horses and, uh, they want to get a scene of me in front of my house. I've got a pond in front of the house and, you know, riding, riding the horse and do a little interview there. So, um, I, uh, you know, I've had this horse for a long time and, uh, usually I can whistle and he'll come to me and no big deal. Well, you've got, you know, I don't know, 12 people in this camera crew. They've got their cameras and the microphones, the big boom mics with the fuzzy thing on it. And, uh, they came around there and I'm trying to catch him and I can't even catch him.

He's, he was not digging all that. And, uh, he's running around. Wasn't letting me catch him. Freaked out. And, you know, he might have horses. They're like, you know, like a dog. You have a dog for 10 years. You get to know your dog.

You know, when he's, something's wrong with him and something ain't. And, um, so I told him, I was i was like oh you guys need to go around outside the building stay out of sight and don't come back over here i need to calm him down it took like 20 minutes to get him calmed down and chilled i finally caught him and saddled him walk him around for a little bit and got on him rode him around in the pen and uh i came out and uh they all came back up and i'm like he started freaking out so i came out, and they all came back up, and I'm like, he started freaking out. So I said, hey, guys, I told you to stay back.

I said, the cameraman and the producer, you can come. We'll go up here. We'll do this interview. And I said, that's it. And I said, you guys got to stay back, because I don't want to get thrown. Because I'm like five weeks from Olympia. I just won the Arnold Classic.

And I just suffered a potentially corundum quad tear before the Arnold Classic. I came back six months later, won it. And, um, you know, so, um, I was in really good shape and looking to, you know, I just missed the prior Olympia because I was out with the torn quad. So, um, I had a lot of high expectations. I just got second, third at the previous two

Olympias. So, um, we're there and, um, this dude comes up with that freaking boom mic thing and spooks the horse, man. And, um, we have a little rodeo and, uh, I'm kind of trotting him back to the, to the house and he's still, you know, jumpy and he bugs a little bit. And, um, I wasn't expecting it and got thrown and, uh uh landed on the concrete head first so uh not cool man i think i tore my groin yeah could have been worse cracked my head and i could have been worse and uh i was not happy yeah you get thrown i mean the horses are are fucking high up too horses you know he's 16 three hands nobody knows anything about horses so he's, he's 16, three hands. Anybody knows anything about horses? So he's a, he's a big horse.

Yeah. You know, I can barely, I can barely get on him. He's so big. You probably fell from what? Eight feet, 10 feet. Somewhere in that range. So, um, that was, you know. That's a long way down, especially to land on fucking concrete.

So. When you're thrown too. So you see the next day when I'm in the gym, I'm training and I'm like going off on a gun to get out of my face because they're that same guy. I told him, man, don't set up the camera right in front of my face. And, uh, what does he do? He gets right in my face. So I was done. I was done with him.

And, um, you know, uh, I asked the producer and, uh, so, uh, I told the producer after that happened, the horse and sin, I said, hey, man, I appreciate it. You know, I did get injured and it's affected my training for the Olympia. I appreciate it if you wouldn't put that in the film. And he assured me he wouldn't. I asked him twice. He assured me it wouldn't do it. And he puts it in the film and he wouldn't even tell me until I went to the premiere in New York. He sent somebody else over to break the news to me before I see it on the screen. And to this day, he still wouldn't even tell me until i went to the premiere in new york he sent somebody else over to break the news to break the news to me before i see it on the screen yeah and to this day he

still wouldn't talk to me about it so shit um so like other than you know that bullshit happening did have you gotten like a positive response from fans because of the documentary yeah the overall um i think you know that first one that first generation i we're all in yeah it's um i think it's the first uh bodybuilding documentary probably since pumping iron hit the big screen yeah you know um we had premieres i went to the premiere in australia uh new york la la and hollywood um i think they uh we did very well and i remember shortly after it came out i was getting you know i was one of the top guys at the time right and um you know pretty well known After that movie came out, I think it, our popularity and recognition went, skyrocketed.

Yeah. So, it was good. You know, I thought it was done in a, you know, other than my issues I had with the previous incident. You know, it showed, it showed the hard work, you know, it showed that, hey, we have lives and some of us have families and, you know, and it showed the struggles, you know, some of the guys, Hideo and Rui, you know, these guys were trying to make it to the top. Yeah. And, you know, if they didn't, if they failed to qualify for the Olympia, that's a bad thing, you know, if you're on the cusp, you know, contracts and sponsorships are on the line.

And it's, I think it showed a lot of the human side of the sport. Because, you know, for the general public, they just see these big muscular dudes on stage and they're underwear flexing. Right. So, I think this human act. And just accredited it all to steroids. That's it. Yeah.

That's actually a small, very small percentage of what the whole thing is. Yeah. So then if, I don't mean to set you up with this question, but like if we were to take steroids out of the equation completely, how big can people get?

If you take, you know, get? If you tell you, you know, like I used to tell people, I've been asked that question before. Yeah. You take steroids, take all drugs out. You're going to have the same top 10 guys at Olympia.

They're just not going to weigh as much. Right. Because if you, if you got it, you got it. If you ain't got it, no drugs going to give it to you. Yeah.

So you take all the drugs away. Those same top 10 guys are going to have the same discipline, same genetics, same work ethic, same drive. Yeah. They're still going to get there. They're still going to be Those same top 10 guys are going to have the same discipline, same genetics, same work ethic, same drive. Yeah. They're still going to get there. They're still going to be the same top 10 guys.

So that's the difference. That's fucking awesome. Yeah. I think, uh, you know, if you were to try to put like a number on it in terms of how much, you know,

how much body weight it would be, I think, I think it's actually a smaller amount than, than people might think. Probably like 20 or 30 pounds. That's the exact than people might think. Probably like 20 or 30 pounds. That's the exact number I was about to say, 20 or 30 pounds. Yeah. Cause you know, I, I've kind of always said like, Hey, you know what, if, uh, if somebody's

and who, who really cares at this point, but if somebody is over 220 and they're under 10% body fat, you can start to kind of wonder, I want, you know, it's not impossible, but, uh, a lot of times that's the case. It's just hard for the, for your body to hold, uh, that, that kind of size, um, uh, without some enhancement. But some of the things they've, they've done for me over the years, like, you know, I remember I deadlifted 633 at 198 in a competition. I was like 23 or so, uh, making that 198, uh, was, was not, it was not easy. Um, but I mean, that was, that was, first of all, it was a million years ago. And, and, uh, secondly, that was before I ever took anything. When I started to take stuff at my strongest in a suit, I ended up deadlifting 766, but I weighed like 308.

Or maybe I was even super heavy for that meat. I can't remember. And the numbers, they sound, sounds quite a bit different, right? It's a, you know, it's over a hundred pounds, but it's also over a decade of training, you know? So they, they don't do everything that people, people think they do.

The main thing that they do is they add size to you, which I think. What they do is they increase your recovery ability. That's all they do. Right. Okay. You can take drugs all day long, guys. You ain't going to look like I did. Okay. That's not no magic pill. Okay. All it does is it increases your protein sensitivities, which increases your ability to recover. Okay. That recovery ability gets negated if you don't eat properly, feed yourself enough protein, enough carbohydrates, if you don't sleep and you don't recover and you don't train.

of carbohydrates if you don't sleep and you don't recover if you don't and you don't train so if you don't train hard enough to stimulate muscle growth you're not going to grow whether you're taking a drug or not if you don't eat correctly you're not going to have the nutrients to repair and recover and if you don't sleep so that's all they do so these people say oh i could look like them if i took that oh you couldn't one you're trying like a pussy. Number two, you eat McDonald's and fucking pizza. Number three, you're out partying every night with your friends. So no,

you can take all the drugs you want. You'll never look like me. What did you find helped you the most in terms of sleep? Did you have any particular way to try to calm yourself down at night or did you kind of work so hard every day

that it wasn't a hard thing to fall asleep? Man, I've been blessed even to this day. I put my head down and close my eyes. And so. I'm out. So last night I got to the room and I went to go eat. I got back in the room.

I laid down. That's the last thing I remember. Game over. Game over. So. Yeah, that, that, that helps a lot. And then how much sleep did you usually try to get? I never, even now, I don that, that helps a lot. And then how much sleep did you usually try to get? I never,

even now, I don't sleep that much. I only get like four and a half, five hours of sleep maybe when I was training for shows. I think that's a pretty common thing with a lot of competitors. I don't know what, I don't know the physiological reasons behind it, but I know a lot of guys I've talked to, same thing.

When you're training for a competition, you can get by with way less sleep and feel fine. And then off season, were you able to sleep a little bit more? Yeah, probably. I don't think I ever sleep more than about six, six and a half hours. Yeah. So. Yeah, it is an interesting thing.

I think, you know, just the schedule doesn't really allow for you to do it. And I think you're antsy to do better every day. Yeah. And I, you know, I think back when I was training, let's say I'll get five hours of sleep. It'll be a solid five hours of sleep. Yeah. You know, I would, I'll wake up and I'd be, I couldn't go back to sleep. So I'll just start the day, you know, and, um, that I kind of, it was kind of cool in

a way, kind of not cool too, because sometimes you just want to sleep and rest, but, uh, um, it is what it is. I noticed on some days when I get a little bit more sleep that I, that it feels like I got hit with like a fucking tranquilizer dart though a little bit, you know, like I don't feel as good, you know, when I get, when I get, uh, more sleep. But it's probably just my body's not used to it. What about a nap? Are you able to get a nap here and there? I've never took naps. Always, always, um, always worked and I'm very busy.

And now with a six year old, he ain't taking no nap. Yeah. How's he? What's her girl? Faith. Oh, how's she? Yeah. So she just did her first year of school, kindergarten.

She's getting ready to, in a week or two, go back to first grade. Yeah. So she's all excited. Mama took her shopping. She bought all of her clothes and all that stuff. So it's been the biggest honor and privilege of my life. So raising a little girl. It's amazing having a kid,

you know, you know, I've run into some friends over the years that, you know, had a bodybuilding lifestyle for a long time and, and then they have children and, you know, bodybuilding,

it can end up being a thing where you, you really have no choice, but to really focus in on yourself. And that, that's what it, that's, it can end up being a thing where you really have no choice, but to really focus in on yourself. And that's what it, that's what it requires. So you have to, you got to spend a lot of time on yourself and a lot of time with yourself to develop yourself into the person that you're trying to become. You know, that's very true. Bodybuilding is a, it makes you into a very selfish, self-centered person, even if you're

not naturally, especially when you get to the higher ranks and you start making you know your living doing that because the whole day is about you you know my day was about my cardio my my eating my training my you know my posing practice my me me me me me well having a spouse that makes it hard Then you throw children in the mix. That makes it even a lot more hard, you know? So, um, when we had faith, um,

I would say for the first time in a very long time, I put somebody before myself and, uh, that's a good thing. Oh, that's great. It, uh, you know,

it put everything in perspective to me. I'm like, man, this bodybuilding stuff ain't quite as important as I think it is. And, uh, you know, then you start almost looking up to different people, you know, like,

you're like, oh man, this guy was so cool. And this guy was so cool. And then you're like, well, those guys were cool, but these guys that have kids, that's kind of almost cooler. It is. And family has always been important to me, but I think once you have kids, it takes on a whole new meaning. And, uh, you know,

that little girl's way more important than any contest was. Right. And, you know, and I'd always, now that I'm done competing, you know, my wife and daughter take precedence over everything. Right. So it changed me that day she was born. It changed everything for the better. Yeah. Stan Efferding, he's he's got two, two children

and, uh, saw a picture of him vacationing. He went, uh, all through, uh, this area that he used to live in, I think in Washington. And he went with his kids and he got all these great pictures of him and his kids and stuff. And, you know, I, I've been, uh, uh, a friend and a huge fan of Stan for years. And, um, it's always been about, it's always been about him. He's always been very like, and he's the first guy who's going to tell you that he's always been very like self-centered. I even have had people come up to me that, that are part of the gym and they're like, he's kind of a dick.

And I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like, he's not, he just, he's not going to go out of his way to say hi to you unless you're kind of part of, of what he has going on. Like, it's just, sorry, but that's the way some people operate. It's the way he operates, you know? And he's actually very nice. As soon as you talk to him, you know, he's, but anyway, when I saw these pictures, I was like, I told him, I was like, this, those are the coolest pictures I've ever seen. Yeah. I got some pictures that I have to admit. I got some serious wood over that, that he's taken over the years where he's doing

these crazy deadlifts or these videos, uh, when he was calling out like Johnny Jackson and some of these things, it was fun. It was fun to see him do some of these big lifts and he, you know, squatted over 900 pounds in the gym and he did some really crazy stuff, sending all these records and we got some great images of him and stuff. But I was like, man, I was like those pictures, that was fucking coolest thing. Cause I know the turn, you know, I know, I know

what happened. I know the evolution of, of what happened to you. And he's like, man, he's like, it's cool as fucking thing. Yeah. That's, you know, that's a good point. You know's like, man, he's like, it's cool as fucking thing. Yeah. That's, you know, that's a good point. You know, when I was in the gym training, I wouldn't talk to nobody.

There was days me and Johnny would train. We'd never say a word to each other, much less anybody else. So, and it was cool, you know, because, you know, you're so focused. And you guys are probably, I would imagine being around each other that much, probably kind of pissed at each other sometimes too, right? If he's kind of bringing it or. Oh, you know, I don't think I ever, I can't say I've ever been pissed at Johnny, man. Okay.

Johnny is a solid dude, man. And one of the few people in the world I call a friend. Um, but super competitive. Yeah. And I have nothing but respect for that because whether we were in the gym or on the stage, he was going to do everything he could in his power to beat me and that's cool because i was doing the same thing and uh you know people said how do you compete against each other and still train i'm like once we leave the stage we leave that crap on the stage you know and uh when we're in the gym

it was that's a whole different platform who's gonna i'm not gonna let him out lift me he's gonna not let me out lift him yeah and And we push each other in a positive way to be better. I don't know if I could have accomplished everything I accomplished had I not had him for a workout partner. Because every single day, it was a fucking battle to the death. And it was cool.

Did you guys do a lot of things together? Did you eat similar and things like that or not really? Nah, because he was more, he couldn't eat all the carbs I could eat. He used to look we'd you know be traveling or somewhere he'd see what i'm eating he's like he'd get so pissed man that's bullshit man i'm like whatever good for me bad for you but uh you know i know he had to go a little bit lower carbs and then i did but uh you know he uh had a super strong guy man oh yeah and it was it was a pretty cool, you know, he, uh, had a super strong guy, man. Oh,

yeah. And it was, it was a pretty cool because, you know, like his back and stuff was his strong point and his stream, you know, far as physically, you know, bodybuilding speaking and also in the gym,

you know, that was my weak point. So that helped me push harder to improve that, that area. Yeah. He, he, he was,

uh, my legs are my strong point and that was his weak point. So, you know, I pushed him on legs to get better and improve. So it was, uh, he was, uh. So, but my legs were my strong point and that was his weak point. So, you know, I pushed him on legs to get better and improve. So it was a, it was a perfect, uh, perfect match. Yeah.

And he was incredibly strong. What, what were some of your, uh, carb sources normally? Oatmeal, uh, sweet potatoes and white potatoes and, uh, rice. Um, I always ate white rice. I just didn't like brown rice. Yeah.

I don't know. Wasn't that big of a sacrifice though. Probably doesn't make a big difference between the two. So that was my main carb sources. What about protein? Protein? Um, egg whites, um, chicken, a lot of game, elk, um, buffalo, venison. Yeah. Yeah. Venison is really lean. Yeah. So is elk, buffalo, venison.

Yeah. Yeah. Venison is really lean. Yeah. So is elk and buffalo. Yeah. I used to go to Wyoming every year and hunt a buffalo and you'd get, you know, between 600 and 700 pounds of meat from the buffalo. So you were set.

And you can't get a more natural, healthier source than wild game. Right. There's no hormones, no preservatives. And it tastes, once you get used to eating it and you go and try to eat a steak, you're like, ugh. Yeah. It doesn't, doesn't taste as good, right? So.

What about fish? Any fish? Yeah, I would eat fish, but I'm not a big. Not a fan. Not a big fish fan. You know, I like fried fish and that ain't really conducive to bodybuilding. So. Right.

Very, didn't eat a lot of fish. Right. And then what about your fat sources? Just kind of almost like whatever you got from your food. I never intentionally added fat. So whatever fat I got was just from the naturally occurring in the food.

Right. And then would you cook anything, you know, in olive oil or anything like that, or just, just cook it up all straight to keep the fat content way down? No, we cook it up straight. Yeah. Never, maybe a little Pam when you're cooking

your eggs or something to keep them from sticking, but that was it. So I cook most of the food on the grill. Open flame, you know, so. Yeah. Well, it makes it a little easier to cook up a lot of food at one time. It does.

And like I, you know, when I was doing it myself, I'd cook twice a week. So I had this huge grill. I could put all this food on there, get it cooked and be done. Because, you know, it's just, you've got to plan ahead. Like we talked earlier and the more I could do, the more efficient I can make it, the easier my life was. And how many calories were you taking in per day?

No, I did, man. I never counted calories. Yeah. I'm guessing it would probably be between. Sounds like about 4,000 or so. Yeah. I'll say between 3,500 about 4,000 or so. Yeah. I'll say between 3,500 and 5,000, depending on all season pre-contest.

Yeah, because your carbs could vary quite a bit, but you were up around a 400 mark with the protein, right? Yeah. You ever eat anything that maybe you just went too overboard and kind of jacked your stomach up? Any poop stories? There we go. That's what I'm getting at.

They've warned me about this man i think my worst poop story was uh i guess it was in chicago years ago and uh so uh i love chicago pizza that deep dish gooey stuff is the best right so you know the two things when i wanted to cheatap Man, I love good hamburgers, the good big greasy, juicy suckers. Yeah. And I love Chicago pizza, that deep dish style pizza. So I guest posed and went out and went to a pizza joint. Pizza was awesome.

And I had a whole large one. It was so good, I ordered another large to take back to my room. So I was like, man, I couldn't help myself. And so when I splurged, I used to splurge, but I very rarely, you know, did stuff like that. And, um, I remember I got back to the room and I was like, oh man, I don't feel too good. So I didn't even touch that, that pizza. Well, an hour and a half, two hours ago, Bob, and it's like horrible. It's like Mount St. Helens erupting.

And, uh, I'm like, dude, it was disgusting. It was so bad. I finally just got a pillow. And I remember I put my head on the wall, sitting on the toilet, and I had the trash can in front of me. And it was like both ends. Oh, man.

And it wouldn't stop. You're like, where the hell is all this coming from? It gives a whole new meaning to being full of shit. So, you know, I'm up all night. I never went to sleep. I kind of dozed off on the toilet there for a minute and forgot to have another eruption. And I had an early flight. So, a dude's come to pick me up.

I come downstairs. I was like, dude, you all right? I'm like, no. And I said, if I tell you to pull over, I go, I ain't bullshitting. I said, stay in the right lane. I said, because if I say pull over, you better pull over, bro. He's like, all right, man. And, uh, we're going, I'm like that gas station

up there, go. And he's like floored it. We're pulling the gas station. I run in another eruption. I'm like, this is ridiculous, man. Of course you just feel horrible. You know, your stomach is just that. It feels like you're being stabbed.

And, um, so we had to stop another time before we got to the airport. So I get to the airport and I'm like, I'm sweating in the security line. And I'm like, you start feeling it to the airport and I'm like, I'm sweating in the security line. And I'm like, you start feeling it bubble up again. I'm like, dude, I ain't waiting through the security line again. And so, man, I cut all the way to the front. I told him, hey, man, I'm about to miss my flight, whatever I came up with.

Because I didn't want to go to the bathroom and had to sit through security again. So I cut through the front of the line, got through, ran to the bathroom. Another explosion. I get on the plane and, dude, as soon as we take off, I'm running to the bathroom and it was just miserable. So, you know, if you've got to take a dump on a plane, those little wee bathrooms, I mean, I couldn't even, I remember I couldn't even like turn all the way and see, it's like couldn't even fit in the bathroom, dude.

You're way too jacked. You're too wide, man. You're too big. You know, and it's just, and it's, you know, that nasty explosion. Man, it was so disgusting. I just stayed in there. The flight attendant's like, not going to enjoy it. Are you okay?

I'm like, nope. They go, do you need assistance? I said, nope. You don't want to come in here. Trust me. I stayed in there. Right before we landed, the flight attendant's like, you need to sit. I'm like, all right.

I went and sat down. Got off the plane. Went to the bathroom again. It was just the most miserable flight and day of my life. I think. He may have been that one flight that they're like rerouted because somebody took such a bad shit in it.

Yeah. That's a bad deal, man. But, uh, and it wasn't a pizza, man. I'm pretty sure it was something I ate previous. But, uh, it was, um, because, you know, I'm throwing up pizza and all that. It was probably a year and a half, two years before I could eat a pizza again. Oh, they ruined it for you. Yeah. So. That's a bummer. Because, you know, I'm throwing up pizza and all that. It was probably a year and a half, two years before I could eat a pizza again.

Oh, they ruined it for you. Yeah. So. That's a bummer. Because, you know, you do that. I don't know if you've ever been sick like that. It's all I could taste was that nasty pizza vomit. Yeah.

Stuff. Oh, gross. Yeah. Not cool. What you eating like these days now? I still eat good. Yeah. Um, I wish I could say I was on a seafood diet.

I see it. I eat it, but that's just not me. Um, and I still eat, um, you know, like for breakfast, I used to have steak and egg whites, oatmeal, hash browns, something, um, rest of the days, pretty much a bodybuilding diet. So, uh, you know, that being said, I'll pick my girl up, my little girl from gymnastics the other day and she wanted a hamburger. So we got his hamburgers and fries. Nice.

So, um, you know, not, uh, if I want to eat something now, I eat it. Yeah. I just naturally don't. Right. Don't choose that stuff. So I try to stay, you know, I'm not competing. I'm not, I don't carry around all the mass I used to carry, but I still want to be in shape and look decent. Where can people find you on social media?

Social media? The Branch Warren. Uh, where can people find you on social media? Social media, the branch one. So, uh, Instagram and Facebook, um, and go to wickedcuts.co. Check out some of this jerky. Check out some of this jerky, man. Got sriracha bacon.

We got seven flavors, three beef, two turkey, two bacon. The maple bacon is the bomb. Uh, then of course you got Black Skull, my nutrition company. Yeah. Uh, go to Black Skull USA and uh we're gonna debut the product at the Olympia in the states so uh

come by the booth and uh September 22nd I'll be in Chicago Tinley Park for the League of Champions competition it's an expo

all my shows of course you have the NPC show the bodybuilding all the categories right we have powerlifting strongman uh crossfit jiu-jitsu tournament.

It's a whole expo. You know, Houston, we had over 100 booths, 10 events. That's great. You know, just a hair under 10,000 people through the door. And pretty cool events. So Chicago is just a repeat of that. And then October 27th, I'll be in Dallas for another one of my shows. And stay up with me on social media.

So I'm leaving for Europe on the 12th. Okay, cool. So I'll be there for 10 days. Yeah. Be in Rome and doing stuff over there. It's kind of a vacation type thing. It is actually. That's great.

I've been taking Trish on a vacation a long time. Yeah. So, you know, I travel all the time. So my vacation of a vacation. I'm sure she's excited about that. She is. And we got some of our friends are going with us. So, you know, my idea of a vacation is stay home because I travel all the time.

You know, Trish is home all the time. So she wants to go out and, you know, she's been just about everywhere she wants to go except for Italy. So we'll go there for 10 days and try to relax. Cool. Mark is going to hit the stage for the first time in a couple of weeks, the very first time for him. Do you have any advice for him? Stay focused,

stay consistent with your nutrition and your training. You know, from this point on nutrition is probably 80, 90% of it. Yeah. I'll say on a regular basis, nutrition is probably 70, 80%. At this point, you're not going to get no bigger.

Stay on that nutrition program. Yeah. Every little, everything you put in your body makes a difference. So, you know, I used to tell myself, why would I cheat? Because it's not helping me, it's helping my competitor. So, and you put all that work in, all that dedication for months of your life. And why would you do something to help somebody else win? I've been feeling pretty good.

I haven't really had, uh, I haven't really had cravings. Um, there's been a day or two where I've just felt like kind of overeating. And there's been a day or two where I've just like, was like, you know, I just want to eat more. But, uh, other than that, I haven't been like, you know, craving anything crazy. I haven't been like, I didn't, I haven't made a giant list of things I'm going to eat after the show or anything like that. I've been feeling pretty good. Um, I think, you know, maybe because it's my, like, honey hasn't really told me much, which I, which is the way that I coach people a lot of times. I'm like, oh, you should just do this.

And I just, you know, just tell them I should do it because there's, there's way too much to explain. And I think that's kind of the approach that he's taken with me. Um, we don't have like a strict, uh, calorie amount. He just said, here's the protein, here's the carbs. And he's been kind of monitoring that, uh, you know, weekly or so adjusting it a little bit, but energy wise, I feel good.

Um, hopefully that continues, but if it doesn't, I know that there's just a few more weeks left. So I can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. That's, that's what I was going to say.

You've got the light at the end of the tunnel. And, um, that's, uh, you know, when I was coming up, the guys would just tell me,

Hey, eat this and do this. I just did it. Yeah. I'm like, it works for them. So, you know, um, that's, uh, you know, when I was coming up, the guys would just tell me, Hey, eat this and do this. I just did it. Yeah. I'm like, it works for them. So, you know, um, that's one of the reasons I quit training people because some people, they want to question and have an explanation of every single thing. And I'm just like, dude, just shut up and do this. It'll work.

Trust me. Just stick to it. And, uh. It's amazing how your body can change every day. It does. It's a wild thing you'll see when you get close to that show your body will change every hour that day or so before the show and during during the show so uh i mean at the olympian those shows you'll see guys

they come out on stage for prejudging but time prejudging is over they've totally look totally different yeah some people look better some people look worse and some of that's from the posing and everything correct dryness comes out a little bit more and all that, right? Yeah, some people spill over, they carve up too much, they start posing, they start spilling over and getting watery. You know, other people harden up and get better. So it's just the closer you get, you'll really see, I mean, just every hour your body will change.

Yeah. It seems like for me, no matter what I've done sport-wise, it seems like there's nothing special about me. Tricks don't seem to work very well. So doing some sort of crazy carb up or anything like that doesn't seem like it would be. Just in my past history, I already know that anything that's just fancy's, uh, anything that's like just fancy normally doesn't go well for me. Just the consistency always works well for me. Correct.

That's what I was telling you, be consistent because I learned that very, very early on all these crazy gimmicks and tricks and let's, you know. Eat 600 carbs a day of the show. Yeah. Drink all this water that don't drink no water and then take all this sodium and do all this crazy stuff. Your body doesn't like extremes. So it doesn't react well.

You know, I've seen guys do crazy stuff and sometimes they hit it. It works off, works out for them. The next three times it doesn't. Right. And how many times you hear a guy say, man, I look better a week ago than I did at the show. Oh.

Yeah. Because you did all this crazy nonsense. If you look, when I got second at Olympia, two weeks out, I was done. And I'm like, I can't be no better. Right. You know? And I remember I cut back and everything and just went into the show.

Because if you're always, if you can't be any better and you keep pushing and pushing, you're going to start going reverse. Right. You know? So. You're going to kind of flatten out. Yeah. Same thing at the 2011 Arnold. You know, two weeks out, um,

I posed and I was like, that's Saturday, two weeks out. And I'm like, I'm done. Wouldn't want to show. So, um,

and I think so. Any of that crazy stuff at the end, right. You're rolling. It's like roulette. You might hit it. Chances are you won't. Well,

it's a hard thing to monitor too. Cause a lot of times a week or so after a show, a lot of guys feel they look better, but maybe. They look better in the gym. Yeah. Not on the stage. Yeah, right. It's like, well, you just, you filled everything up and you, and you certainly look a lot bigger.

I mean, I remember I used to see guys, I'd see them in the gym. I'm like, golly, that dude looks incredible. The other time they got on stage, you're like, what happened? You know, there's some guy that didn't look like nothing in the gym. He gets on stage and destroys everybody. So. Yeah. The posing has been kind of the strangest part of it,

just because I've never really messed with any of that. But other than that, everything's feeling good. I, I feel confident. I'm excited for it. It should be pretty cool. Enjoy the ride,

man. So, you know, when you're standing on it, especially if you know, if you can go and you can be the last man standing up there, it's all worth it. Yeah.

So all that hard work and sacrifice that you put into, and then you're the last one up there and you win it, then it's all worth it. And what I found is usually the harder I work and the more sacrifices I made, the sweeter that victory. Right. Cool. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Thank you so much, man. That was fun.

A lot of fun. Thanks for having me.