Mark Bell's Power Project - Running SHOULD Be Pain Free, This is HOW - Matt Choi || MBPP Ep. 872

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

In this Podcast Episode, Matt Choi, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about Matt's journey in running, how to be a pain free runner, and Matt speaks out on the "Bib Mule" situation he's found himself in. Follow Matt on IG: https://www.instagram.com/mattchoi_6/ New Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://hostagetape.com/powerproject Free shipping and free bedside tin! ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!! ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject to save 15% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements! ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori! ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep! ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en  Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

I didn't know you were so tall. Dude, that's like the first thing. It's always the height. You're bigger in person. It's the height thing. People are like, dude, you're actually pretty energetic in person too. I'm like, that's a win. But then everyone's like, yo, you're pretty tall.

I'm like, I guess when I'm filming like this and you only see that 0.5 angle, it's a little harder to contextualize. 0.5, you're kind of, yeah, you're warped. Exactly. It's deceiving. Just so people can understand, you are what, 195, 190 to 195? 190, 195, 6'2". You are a big man, especially for a runner.

Yes, that's for sure. Do you intentionally lose weight or have you lost any weight to try to run? Or what's your kind of take on that? I don't think I've lost weight because even when I played football at Monmouth, I was sitting right around 195. Really? Yeah, I played football at Monmouth, I was sitting right around 195. Really? Yeah. I played receiver.

So I wasn't like 210. I wasn't one of those kind of receivers. I was probably 195, 200. But I definitely had more muscle mass. My endurance wasn't built out yet. So I don't think I had any goal of like, all right, I need to get to this weight so I can run at this speed. I just wanted to find that balance of like, all right, can I still kind of eat the way I eat, train the way I train and move my body and have a good balance?

And like I found that even at 190 now, I have a good balance. I'm not in pain. I'm able to strength train and still lift heavy and be able to run the miles I do. This has to be talked about because I don't know how much people know about this. But the quote that I said today when we were running and you got really excited about it, I said, if you run long enough and you run far enough, what's going to happen?

Your body's going to change. No, you're going to shit your pants. He's like, it was a deep one, I know. Your body's going to change. No, your body won't change, but you will definitely take a shit. I promise you that one. I've had that too often.

I don't think people know about the gels and the electrolytes and the shifting of if you're trying to drink water when you're running. People are trying to take in carbs and a bunch of different things. And you got the goo packets and all this stuff, right? So all kinds of mayhem can happen in the stomach as you're running, right? And a lot of those products, they're made with sugar. They're made with some form of sugar. So it sits in your stomach and it digests fast.

But when you're rumbling around in there and you're not eating many whole foods, there's nothing to absorb all that stuff. So the gel, it kind of goes to your system, but it then can cause you to shit. And then when you're on like a mile 18 and you're freaking going through a marathon, it's like the worst feeling of like bubble guts.

Could you imagine running with bubble? And I hope this doesn't happen to you in Boston, but just the thought of like, I had, I knew I had to kind of take a shit at like mile 10 and I held it in actually. Cause I'm like, I don't want to like mess up my groove. And I took two shits before the marathon and I've gotten a good system where I

drink my black coffee. I have my morning thing and I'm like, I make sure I get it out. And most runners do have that process. But even in a race, man, you just, the beautiful thing about marathons is you have you have a plan but then so much so many things happen and your plan could go to shit and you just got to be no pun intended but you just got to be ready to adjust yeah and I think that's really what I've learned through my marathons but you also have to have the art of shitting fast because you're

talking about during the Houston marathon you were running some amazing splits and then you had to take a quick 20, 30 second shit. Now, how was that process? Because you got to shit, wipe, put everything back on, run. How's that work? Do you guys want the full details? Yes. He probably made an Instagram post during that. I wish I had the flex.

I wish I had enough time to do that. But talk about productivity. Yes. It's a fast transition for sure i think i was thinking about this too actually of like how do i get that done so fast and part of it is as you let it all build and i said right i was having to shift like six miles so that first of all it was a thought in the back of my mind number one build pressure okay i follow but to build a little pressure so it kind of is at that point of like

it's ready to go yeah and then when you have an opportunity you see a porta potty i told my brother he was on an e-bike i'm like yo look ahead just find a porta potty let me know if you see one ahead and he was like there's one coming up on the left right after this uh water station i'm like perfect i i went in it locked the door quick, and just literally pulled my pants down, just immediately shit it all out. But at this time, I had to pee too. And I didn't pull my shorts down far enough, so I was peeing on my pants. So I'm already soaked and sweaty. It's humid as shit in Houston.

And I'm just like, oh, God, just another thing to add to the list. But I didn't shit on myself at all. I got it all in the porta potty. But after, I'm like, my shorts are already drenched. I'm like, God, I got urine all over this now. wipe two wipes i'm like fuck it it's good enough yeah and i'll take a shower at the end i'm like and i just started running again and like immediately it's like the mindset of like can you get back into your pace uh-huh get back into the flow and at that point i had nine more miles and it's just like all right one foot in front of the other and

you know starting to warm up but trying to just kind of get back into the rhythm. Those guys that are at world record paces, they must just sometimes just go in their pants, right? Mark, I've seen women have shit coming down their shorts. I lie to you not, bro. I'm telling you, marathoners and runners in general, like there's a different level of like callusing that I've seen some shit. And once again, no pun intended but there it gets to that point people shit in their pants and they just keep rolling nike's gonna make some like depends

honestly that like that would tear away but yeah yeah tear away is hasn't somebody figured out a way to like systematize going through 26.2 without having to take a shit like wouldn't there be a digestive process or ways to handle everything call you's a good call. You know, I do think a lot of coaches will recommend that you practice with particular brands of electrolytes and particular foods in your prep. But again, sometimes you might go to a contest and you might have these particular gels and some of these particular things. But then what they hand you at the contest could slightly be different, right? 100%. The water stations, every race is sponsored by a different brand. So this one was Gatorade. But some of them are like tailwind some of them are goo so every race you

go to if you don't pack your own nutrition people have like ptsd like i'm not drinking any of that yeah and honestly some people do and it kind of screws up their whole um routine for the race but you have to kind of one to your point figure out in training what works for you so then at least you can have the gels that you know that work with your stomach then the water and actual hydration stations that have electrolytes you like for me i try not to like let it play too big of a role because then you're always going to be having that anxiety of like oh my god they have gatorade this time and i'm not gonna you know and like then you start to feed that doubt of like oh are you not going to do well now because they don't have the brand that you use? So I think there's a level of like,

one, testing different stuff, but also you kind of got to use what they got, you know, because unless you're going to pack your own water and hold the bottle for the whole marathon, you kind of have no choice unless you're not going to drink anything. I'd imagine you'd probably want to like start

like literally poop training. Like you wouldn't, like you would block off the time that you're going to be running. And like for a month leading up, like I just don't shit between you know whatever 10 a.m and you know whatever the ending is 100 it's also partly because every race starts at a different time people also train at a different time if you're not a morning runner and you typically train midday or in the evening your body gets so used to training in that time of the day

most marathons are in the morning so if you've never trained in the morning and have your body even have that stimulus of one running at typically like a fasted state um you're you're not going to know what your body needs to shit you're not going to have those feelings you know like i go on runs in austin in the mornings some training runs that are just eight miles easy nine miles whatever it is and i have to fucking shit on those runs yeah and it's like i've done it at an obnoxious amount where i'm just in the woods shit i don't even wipe and i just go home and shower immediately these are these are runs monday through thursday our boy dj webb yeah yep yep he he had to go so bad he couldn't get home so like he found like a

tennis court and a gate and he just shat through the gate and then wiped and ran away it's you know the people that have that tennis court like they were fucking hating life on that day yeah oh my god runners are disgusting oh yeah like they are we are we are rugged than maybe people thought yeah this is hardcore i uh we are kind of joking around about a bunch of stuff here, but there is like routine. For sure. And like a run can take a long time. Some people are running ultra marathons. Some people may take them three or four or five hours to finish a marathon.

Like that's a huge amount of time devoted towards just the actual event itself. And then you have like the lead up to the event and you have the aftermath of the event, how are you going to recover from this? I do think that your nutrition beforehand would also be interesting. I kind of wonder if you were to eat some kind of solid foods beforehand, you had what comes to mind in my head, just because it's always been easily digestible for me um and i eat like a lot of meat and like rice and potatoes and stuff like that but i would probably eat some bread i don't know why that comes to mind i don't know why i always think that bread is like something that absorbs stuff well but uh it's been stuff that i i ate since i

was a kid yeah when i was sick my mom would like to make soup and bread or soup and crackers or those kinds of things. They're real easy to like hold on to. It doesn't seem to hurt your stomach. Even when you're puking your guts out, it seems like something that you can kind of hold down. So I kind of wonder like, what are some foods that you have beforehand that maybe can help your stomach to be better when you're running? And I think this is something I'm still trying to like go through the weeds on and really figure out to your point of like joking about the videos of what I eat in a day that are kind of obnoxious. I think one, to answer your direct question, PB&Js is typically my go-to.

I'll do like an Uncrustable just because it's easy. It's packageable. I don't have to go out and buy like peanut butter and then bread. I just want to interrupt just for a second. People are thinking, man, this is like some highly processed food. This is crazy. I think sometimes there's an advantage to processed food because it's already processed slightly for you. Some people can be like, no way, that's going to blow up my stomach.

But you might have to try it. Yeah. No, I agree. And there's actually a different brand called, I think it's called Chunks. It's a healthier version. It's not as processed, but the same thought process. it's a packaged pb and j sandwich it just has better ingredients that sounds so good yeah that is that one might be a better alternative but if you don't have that at your local trader joe's or wherever you're at where your race is you have to plan

ahead so worst case if you get an uncrustable or any pb and j sandwich at least you'll get a little bit of carbs some fat some protein and you just kind of have that as like a base. And then you go on your run and you just start, then you begin your journey of using the gels as your nutrition for those couple hours. Looks like they're called chubbies. Chubbies. That's what it is. Chubbies.

I like that. Yeah. So it's, one of my friends actually sent this to me for New York, but I completely forgot it at my dad's freaking house in Queens. But nonetheless, chubbies. So you and I were discussing this a my dad's freaking house in Queens. But nonetheless. So you and I were discussing this a little bit. Let's just back up a moment. I think an area that some people might be missing, and I'm new to running and this is all just like me, just spitballing. And I shared some stuff with Nsema and a few other people. You know, I lost

like 10 pounds on a run and it wasn't the summer. And, and I had a lot, quite a bit of liquid with me. Um, I am a bigger guy. I think sometimes having that extra muscle mass, uh, could maybe lead you to dehydrate even more, maybe even faster to some degree. And so maybe it's something that, uh, maybe the bigger guys might have to pay a little bit more attention to. Um, but in most cases, most coaches, most strength coaches will say it's not really acceptable to lose more than like 2% of your body weight during a competition of any kind. And you might say, well, OK, well, you can't really replenish fast enough for that to actually work out well enough. And you could maybe say the same thing for a marathon to some degree. But we should be able to really mitigate that a lot.

Like if someone's to lose 10 pounds even though they brought liquid with them, can we switch things around to where they only lose 5 pounds? liquid with them, can we switch things around to where they only lose five pounds? Because I'm just thinking like in my head, most of the stuff that I know about dehydration is that dehydration is a real no-no and it's something that you can lose quite a bit of strength on. So these packets that people have when they're running, these are supposed to help kind of mitigate some of that weight loss, but the packets themselves don't weigh enough for you to really mitigate the loss. Like we need actual weight. We need actual like liquid with us. And the challenge would be like, how do you carry all that shit? I know people have like packs and these different things. Uh, but I think even for yourself would be really interesting, uh, to learn

maybe when you go and try some of these runs, if you had more liquid with you, I'd be interested to know if you feel like you can run faster, have more energy, being more hydrated. I'm sure I would. The funny thing is, Mark, I feel like for me, and my coach always gives me shit for this, because I try to make the training so much tougher by going fasted, by not bringing water. I won't bring a water unless it's 13 miles or more. Even my track workouts, 800 meter repeats, 1,000 meter repeats, 400 meter repeats, I can do that whole workout, hit my splits, hit my times with no water.

Is that ideal? Probably not. But the ability to do that in that state with nothing, I know for a fact that when I go run in my marathon, I'm going to have water every two miles. I know I'm going to have gels and nutrition. I'm going to have electrolytes available. So that should only make it easier for me when it comes race day. And has that been like what's happened for you? Like typically application? Yes. 1000%. Today we ran eight miles and we didn't have any liquid.

You just kind of go in. I've gotten a good point of like really relying on fat as fuel. And typically I intermittent fast all the time. I have a high fat diet where I eat tons of avocados, lots of nuts, a lot of oils, even though you don't see it in those vids. Um, but I think my body has kind of used to relying on fat as a fuel, not just carbs and glucose. And in the mornings I don't feel the need, like I'm not hungry in the morning. I'll go rip that run, eat a smoothie right after and be like, I can still wait until I eat my first meal right around 11, which is like a fat brunch. And then I kind of start my eating window right at that point. Is this how you started or did you switch to this after some time, especially because you were a former football player? So how did that progression of nutrition happen? A lot of this

one, I started to learn more about nutrition knowledge in general during COVID. So at the time, my mom was actually a type 2 diabetic. So she just needed to reduce a lot of sugar and increase movement. And instantly, she lost 20 pounds in like three months. Just doing that, she walked more, like five days a week. Good for her. That's great. Yeah.

And she crushed it. She wasn't a diabetic anymore. But she started doing a bunch of research on just like the keto diet and just seeing how that really helps type 2 diabetics. So she went full like keto, one meal a day, fasted, heavy fats, and still having proteins and stuff. I would use her knowledge, gain that knowledge and be like, all right, well, there's pieces of that that are really good principles. Then I would kind of start incorporating my own education I have a precision nutrition cert But I think even more than just that certification Guys like Mark Hyman guys that are in the food space

I just kind of started consuming their content And figuring out what are the healthiest fats and proteins and carbs And still just being very well-rounded So that's kind of where it came from But during COVID is when I started running. So I would take these principles and I would just start applying it to the challenges or the runs that I would go on. And then I was like, all right, well, I feel pretty good running five miles with no food before it. I would just eat right after.

So I just kind of had that mentality and that practice, which then kind of led to some of these further distances and maintaining those same principles. Power Project Family, how's it going? Now, we talk about sleep all the time on the podcast because it's one of the biggest things that helps you with your health and fitness, your recovery, your muscle gain, your fat loss, everything. That's why we've partnered with Eight Sleep for such a long time now, because the technology behind the mattress allows you to track your heart rate, the amount of times it takes you to fall asleep, your tosses and turns, your heart rate variability.

It changes its temperature through the night based off how you sleep, but not only yourself, but maybe your partner on the other side of the bed. It is an amazing mattress. Andrew, how can they learn more? Yes, head over to 8sleep.com slash powerproject. That's 8 spelled out, E-I-G-H-T, sleep.com slash powerproject. Along with more information, you guys will actually save $150 off of your entire order automatically automatically links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes let me ask this you started running in 2020 and now like when you look at your splits and how you're running it seems like you've obviously you've been an athlete for a long time but it seems like you've been running forever so i'm curious because a lot of people are getting into running since mark's been getting into a lot of running too. Do you remember your beginning stages of like starting runs and the difficulty? And maybe what are some concepts that you think people should try to keep in mind as they're trying to become better runners? I love this. I think the first thing I would say is to start slow and to just build your foundation.

Everyone wants to look at what other people are doing and get so amazed like, oh my god, how fast they are or how they're able to run consecutively or whatever it is. I think you need to start wherever your starting point is. For me, the first introduction to running for me was doing the Murph workout, 30 days. The CrossFit Murph workout? The one mile, 100 pull-ups,

200 push-ups, 300 squats, one mile. I did that 30 days in a row. Wait, did that 30 days in a row. Wait, what? 30 days in a row. What the fuck? Why? Wait, what? Yeah, 30 days in a row.

You didn't die? I didn't die. My body got so adept. Typically, this workout is done with a 20-pound weighted vest. Someone just turned the podcast off. It was like, fuck this dude. Jesus Christ. I swear to God so that was my introduction wow and then i started to build off that so if you think about the end of the month in 30 days you get 60 miles accumulated right two miles every day that's very doable for most humans the other you know the the

lifts and stuff maybe not as much 100 pull-ups's aggressive. You have to break it up. But the two miles, that was doable for me. And even though someone that wasn't a runner, I was an athlete, I was a trainer at the time, training different modalities, but that opened up my eyes. I'm like, oh, shoot. I just did 60 miles, whatever the amount of pull-ups and push-ups and squats, and from that moment,

I just used that as my foundation, and I just slowly built it up from there. The next challenge I did was 2,000 jump ropes every day for 30 days. What do we talk about plyometrics? Plyometrics is one of the best things for runners because it's literally creating the exact simulation that you're going to go do for your running. So those 60 days, I was able to accumulate 60 miles and then over 60,000 steps, 60,000 hops. And that really create this elasticity in my Achilles, my soleus, my gastro, my foot. That's where my strength came from, from my feet.

Can I ask you a question real quick? Don't forget. He's got jack tendons. Oh, God. His feet are something. I wish we had a picture we could pull up during the podcast because those feet are wild. Send the video to Andrew. Oh, yeah.

Please send that and let's pull it up up but don't lose your train of thought now i'm thinking about all the volume you're putting on your feet and even as i started like when we started doing this barefoot shooting i had so many different little issues that came up with my feet but do you think because you played a lot of football when you're younger i'm i hope we get to your childhood at some point because even when you were in the gym and you were just sitting in that squat so casually, it's like, anyway, with your feet, right? Did anything happen where you needed to adjust? Because 2000 jumps a day and all that mileage, you didn't need to slow down at all. You didn't need to adjust anything. I was able to complete both of those challenges. My calves and my feet were able to actually tolerate it. Obviously

there was levels of muscle stiffness because of just the amount of repetition and volume um but i guess to answer your question it didn't start to the change didn't happen until i actually started to run more then i started dealing with shin splints and plantar fasciitis okay sick like really chronic pain in both the shins and the plantar fascia then I was like going through this whole search of like what do I need to change to stop this pain and then it goes

to the second part of this is going easier on your easy days that was the biggest epiphany for me every day I used to run it was a tempo run it was like me running at that time it was like 7.15 7.30 pace was pretty fast for me every day i used to run it was a tempo run it was like me running at like at that time it was like 7 15 7 30 pace was pretty fast for me on like a tempo run and i would run every single day like that i had no day was there in recovery run or an easy run and this was just my lack of knowledge

i was just testing and trying to figure it out on the go yeah but my body was breaking down because of all the volume because of the load so then when I started to peel it back, I'm like, hold on. Is it my foot strike? Is it the way I'm training? Is it the foot itself? Is it too much volume too fast? Right? Because a lot of times when people have shin splints or plantar fascia, it's a lot of overuse or they're ramping up their training too fast or the shoes are just so poor that it has no cushion for them. It's one of those three things typically. So once I started switching out the shoes, I'm like, all right, well, the shoes are just so poor that it has no cushion for them. It's one of those three things typically. So once I started switching out the shoes, I'm like, all right, well, the shoes isn't the problem. I'm switching out.

At that point, I was wearing every single brand you can think of under the sun. And I'm like, it's not the shoe. It was more my mechanics and my foundation as a runner. Then when I got a coach and I realized they're like, dude, you did what in your last training block? And they were just shell shocked. They're like, how the hell did you make it through and that was when I really started to realize I'm like hold on I'm still such an amateur in this game like I gotta I really got to get myself around some smart people that have been around that have worked with other athletes even though I knew I was an athlete I couldn't just take that ego and apply it into this sport where I didn't

know the knowledge so then I just started to seek more people that were advanced in the space or just had more knowledge than me. I think we forget like a lot of sports are played when you're really young, you know, baseball, soccer. The kids kick the ball back and forth. They just like play. You see this in a lot of other countries where that's kind of what they have access to. They have access to a ball. The kids just kick the ball around and they become amazing soccer players. But it takes a really, really, really long time. And we forget that when you started playing baseball that your dad or your uncle or your grandpa like took the ball, probably a larger ball than a regular baseball, probably something more the size of a softball.

And they said, watch the ball. And they held it up and they shook the ball a bunch and they would throw an underhand pitch to you, which is a slower pitch than an overhand pitch. And you would watch the ball and sure enough, you'd probably miss it. And they'd say, hey, you know, keep your eye on the ball. Like that was a good try. Try it again. And you pitch it again.

And then maybe the kid makes contact. Maybe he still misses. Maybe he, maybe you give them that larger bat they have that kind of that red bat that looks like a like a big club right you got that giant bat you have a giant ball and now they make contact they get success with it and over like a long period of time they start to learn this but we don't recognize that like when it comes to something like running or it comes to something like lifting for some reason we get excited and we just want to like redline that right away. And you forget that when you were a kid, when you would ride your bike and you would like go downhill and things like that, even as a young kid who's excited to do stuff that's adventurous and you want to do stuff that's a little crazy, you're not going to go flying down a hill 35 or 40 miles an hour right away.

You're going to wait until you feel like you have more stability and you're going to wait until you feel safer to redline it and to go that fast. You wait till you're more experienced. So it's interesting as we're older, we just like want to redline these capacities and just, I'm going to go out and run seven minute mile like every day. Sounds completely crazy. Oh, please. line these capacities and just i'm gonna go out and run seven minute mile like every day sounds completely crazy oh please if you're watching on youtube and if you're listening sorry but you got to like can can you zoom in on that i do okay good good i know i sound like grand the barefoot

spinner right now but like see these tendons these strong lines that go from his toes all the way into his calcaneus. And his toe spread too. So question, as a kid, man, did you like, I mean, what was your history as a kid? Did you guys wear shoes a lot? Were you just moving a lot? Well, in the Asian household, that deep squat you're telling me, right?

The Asian squat. I didn't want to say it, but you did. It's an Asian squat, which Mark mentioned it earlier. And the Asian calves. Yeah, the Asian calf and then we have the enlarged hands. want to say it yeah it's an asian sky which mark mentioned it earlier um but yeah asian calves yeah the asian the asian calf and the asian and then we have the enlarged but i think the that's kind of the foundation yeah it was you know i'm korean so you know kimchi is like a very known you know yeah it's a fermented uh cabbage um but i would always see my grandma and my mom sit in that deep squat position and really like marinate the cabbage. And it was very comfortable for them.

They could sit in that. So I think for me at a young age, I don't know if it is an Asian thing specifically, but I just got very familiar and close to that by just seeing it first and then applying it through sports and then just kind of my movement as a kid. I had an older brother. We used to play sports all the time as kids and you know i grew up with a single mom so i didn't have my dad all the time so hey another yeah so sports was like a really it was an avenue am i way off and thinking that the kimchi is like buried outside or something right is that what some people do with some kimchi yeah yes it can be it's typically actually for most korean households they're like put in a jar yeah They put it in a jar and they bury it. Some bury it, but they actually put it in a different fridge,

typically in a garage or a different setting because the longer it marinates and sits there, the longer that fermentation process happens, the more probiotics you get, the more benefits you get for nutrition-wise. But yes, the longer it sits there, the chili paste and all those things, it makes it taste better too.

So the longer it ferments, the better quality of kimchi you'll have. So that's why when you go to restaurants and stuff, and Cali has some solid Asian food, but Texas not as much. No disrespect to Texas, but that's the one slack on Texas. There's no Asian food. But you don't get as good when you're at a restaurant. It's not as good as like if someone makes it homemade. Yeah. So a lot of those mechanics, like just sitting in a squat, that stuff came natural to you because you've just done it you've seen it you've done

it and you've kept it yes and as i've gotten older now i've realized that the human movement actually like being functional is the game i don't care as much about how much i can bench or deadlift or squat i want to move pain-free in any movement that someone asked me to whether it's for lacrosse running go jump here go pick this thing up and i want to just be capable i want to be i want to be hard to kill like that's how i always think about it it's like yo yes it's cool to run far but can you also lift shit can you can you run far while farmers caring can you do anything that someone asks you to do like can you do it capable like are you capable enough in that sense this is the kelly starrett deadlift challenge here. What is the Kelly Starrett deadlift challenge? It's one

deadlift and Kelly does this at 315. I just can't do it at that much weight, but it's one deadlift every 30 seconds for 20 minutes straight. So it ends up being 40 total deadlifts. I think Kelly actually does this for 30 minutes. But yeah, this is a tough challenge. What weight you got on there? This is 225.

I haven't deadlifted in a while. I actually did this a couple weeks back and i did 275 and i pulled my back and it was a big ego crunch at like miles like at minute 17 i had three more reps i'm like god damn it my back got pulled that's okay i pulled my back warming up with 315 once on a warm-up just pulled my shit because of stupidity so you're good it happens it happens yeah you know it's it's important i think lifting is important and having a strength base we hear a lot of runners talk about having a an aerobic base and i think there's a lot of confusion in running when people

are first getting into it they're confused about what pace to go at uh they may hear of people say math and then there's also the Mathetone method, and they're unrelated, even though they're the same thing in some sense. There's your maximum aerobic function, which is something that was discovered, I believe, also by Dr. Mathetone, who wrote books on training in the 80% range. But they're not exactly the same thing. And I think people get confused at what percentage to run. And then they see people posting their times and they see someone like yourself with proficiency, uh, in running long distances, uh,

in, in these six minute mile paces. And, uh, people are probably like, well, shit, he's real pretty advanced. Um, I feel pretty fit. I should probably be able to run like eight minute miles. And they go out there and they try it and they're like, whoa, wow, that was embarrassing. That was really, really difficult. And so where does your training, like you were mentioning doing these like seven minute miles and you were doing them kind of almost daily. What did your coach help you do? And where do you kind of sit now with a lot of your training? Yeah. I think from the coach perspective, it was more just giving me like a blueprint, right? I think for a lot of times when you're in health and wellness, it's like,

you know, even like what we did in the gym today, it was a lot more free flow, right? Like there was not like a plan. There was not like certain weights that we have to hit. And that's actually what my strength training looks more like now, where I'm just, I understand which muscles I want to hit that are going to help me as a runner. So that's kind of how I treat it. I call it an intent, having an intent of the day.

Exactly. And for running, I never really had that because I didn't know what the foundation was. So when I first got a coach, I actually worked with Nick Barrett's coach, Jeff Cunningham, when I hit my first sub three. And it just,

it showed me like, I just looked at the week and at a month outlook of just like, Oh shoot, bears coach jeff coming cunningham when i hit my first sub three and it just it showed me like i just looked at the week and at a month outlook of just like oh shoot most of these runs he wants me to just go at an easy pace there's no time it's just go get miles time on your feet and i started realizing i'm like all right well then there's no pressure for me to run fast just take this easy let my body really create blood flow let it recover itself even on these quote-unquote longer runs. Did he advise you to not go too fast or he didn't say anything? No, he did because I told – when I first told him because I first started working with Jeff after I ran the Austin Marathon last year.

I was looking to get to sub three. I hit a 305 on my own. And I told him and he's like, Matt, if you hit 305 on Austin, which is a hilly course, he said, you're going to break sub three. You're right there. He said, we just got to break down your training and look at it at a bird's eye view and see what's happening. And then he was just like, all right, well, looking at your easy days, take those with no pressure. Don't even look at your watch. Just go run and go off of feeling. And if you're breathing really hard, then you're probably going too fast. And it's just that, that mixture of understanding yourself and your body. Obviously, if someone watches my stuff, they're gonna be

like, oh, I want to go do eight miles. Well, that would probably be yourself and your body. Obviously, if someone watches my stuff, they're gonna be like, oh, I wanna go do eight miles. Well, that would probably be pretty stupid to do. So break it down smaller and just kind of feel it, right? If you go on two miles and it seems super easy and you're breathing well and you have a conversation with whoever you're running with, that's a good sign that that pace, that area is a good, easy pace for you.

Conversational, right? So that's kind of the first thing for me when it was like oh shoot that whole messaging of like my own thought of like i have to run fast to get faster why do you think that makes people better like running at that speed like the speed that we ran today do you normally run around that speed or do you run slightly faster probably a little fast like 8 45 to 9 okay but i think the science behind it is like obviously as you build up your aerobic capacity it's like building out an engine right even though an engine can go up to 100 miles an

hour it can't sustain that speed forever and the same thing is with your body like you can't hold that maximum velocity for 26 miles but you could probably hold 70 of that velocity 60 maybe so until you build your engine strong enough to sustain that much volume it's always going to feel like if you feel like that at 10 miles in a marathon shit you got a long way to go still right so it's building that out and i think the biggest thing i learned from running is just being patient right there's nothing sexy about this there's nothing sexy i'll say today that's like oh my god i got this running secret no it's you got to put one foot in front of the other take care of your body as best

as you can and stay patient along this process. Because I ran four marathons before I ever ran a sub three. Trial and error all the time of figuring out what system is working. How do I get my nutrition down? How do I sustain these speeds? But you have to be okay with like overcoming some failure along that way. Because if not, you're always going to be in your head of like oh I want to run a half I want to run a full but I don't know if I'm there yet I don't know and you're always going to be in your own

mind so I think a part of me was like having the blueprint but also having the mindset of like being okay with failing being okay with not getting the job done because I know that as long as I'm alive I'm going to have a fighting chance at some point. It might not be today, but in a year, who knows? So that's always been my framework once I got out of football. And I want to just continue to have that as I go on in life. I like what you're saying. I think it sounds to me like so much of it is about what you can recover from. So if you – we talked also about the mindset

and how important it is to just go for it sometimes. So it's going to be important for you to occasionally let her rip and go for six minute miles. But the duration of that run is going to be shorter. Like that might be something where you do three miles and you just kind of like literally see how fast you can go. And you go with some of your buddies that are real fast and you just let loose. Or you do a day where you're doing some interval sprints or something like that and you're going much faster. But there's a regard to when the intensity is high, the frequency will be lower. Or if the intensity is high, the duration will be lower. If the duration is super long, the intensity will be low and vice

versa. And you have to kind of have some sort of map of any combination of those things. There's some people that will say you can get extremely fit and build out your maximum aerobic function by being a sprinter as well. And they're actually right. Like there's not anything that somebody like Usain Bolt can't do. Like there's no reason why he wouldn't be able to run a marathon probably quite easily. Now, if he wants to become more proficient at a marathon, he'll have to play that game a little bit more. But you can get there with high intensity work, but you would have to back down the amount of times that you do it so that you can still recover from those workouts. Because I'm from football, I have that thought process where it's always the same thing right it's like coaches are different coordinators are different there's different ways to win a super

bowl there's different ways to run a marathon right to your point like you know that thought process of the maffetone method or even taking 80 of your runs easy 20 more aggressive some people don't follow that actually and they're faster faster. They're actually, they, some people run hard every day and their body's so used to that, that much intensity that they've calloused that muscle in their mind as well. Or they've calloused those muscles in their body. So there's not, fuck it. Let's see what's true. A hundred percent. So like even like a Ken ride out, right? Ken does 10 miles every single day and with one long run, that's his, that's his program. He says that every day you can look at his Strava. He runs at like a 615, 630 pace every day,

and he goes out for one long run once a week. Guy lost his mind somewhere along the way. How long has he been doing this for a long time? Ken is 55. He's actually the record holder for the fastest marathoner 50 and above. At Boston, he had a sub 230. Bro, he's running like 545 pace.

He's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. This guy lying about his age? What's going on? No, he's- That's wild. It's like, show me the burst. I have to say, there's obviously so many ways-

What a stud. What was his name? Ken what? Ken Rideout. R-I-D-E. R-I-D-E and then O-U-T. Hey, props to that guy. Holy shit.

He's a beast. And almost every race he goes to, he wins in his age group. Wow. Running 230 is something. Running sub three is a feat. Running 230 is on some other shit. He's prepped his body. And he's a lifter. He's got muscle.

He's not like a. Really? Yes. When Andrew pulls him up, you'll see. He honestly has more of your build. Shorter, stockier. And he rips miles. Is there, for competitive marathons, is there any blood doping, drug testing?

I would imagine like if you do it in the Olympics, there would be. I'm sure in the Olympics. I'm not sure for like these races that are like kind of like. Am I going to get popped is what I'm going to do. Somebody listen to this show right now. They're going to be like, yo, Mark Bell's running in,

uh, in, in, in, in Boston. Oh, wow. Wow.

He's got some muscle on him. Oh, I think I've seen this guy before. He was on, um, recently, uh, he was on Rich Rolls podcast.

What an animal. Wow. Look at those delts. Yeah. And those. Wow. This dude is a beast, dude.

He's ripping. Yeah. And those. Wow. This dude is a beast, dude. He's ripping. Jesus. He's actually gotten faster every single year. Wow. Every year he's hit a PR time in a marathon. Wow. All right. So, you know, there's so many things we're talking about right now, but you are a large

runner. Like, you know, when you, when you look at your physique, specifically your legs, you're jacked, right? Do you know, cause you probably get a bunch of steroid accusations do you know if like ken gets the same thing from that community because like he's so like he's jacked and he's running some really good times i really don't know and i'm not going to speak on it for ken fair um but yeah i mean i think at any point because now the running demographic is getting so big people that are outside runners or outside athletes are getting into the space. So there's always going to be some speculation, right?

I mean, I've had people DM me like, dude, what shit are you on? What juice? I'm like, I was like, bro, if I've been on juice, I would hope that I would look much swoller than this. But I understand why people have that speculation. I think at any point when you're doing things that seem challenging to others, there's always going to be that assumption or speculation of, oh, he's cheating or it's not possible for,

the main thing I get now is how do I keep my body healthy? Because people are wondering, I just ran New York two months ago. I had a marathon four months before that and I'm going to run Austin in 30 days. And that is a lot of marathons to accumulate. And it's not the best for your health, right?

It's typically not. But if you've built up enough of a base in addition to like building out your your body where now like i just i have a really good understanding of like how to recover myself and how my body feels after these marathons even after houston monday i was sore i ran two and a half miles just to kind of flush it out super slow then i went into a plunge and i'm like all right that i felt solid then t, I felt a little sore, but today I felt good. It's Thursday now, we went on eight miles this morning

and I felt pretty strong today. So I think from what I've learned most above anything else, from a lot of Kelly Starrett and a lot of other PTs, it's movement is actually the best form of medicine. And you can sit on your couch after a big effort and be like, oh my God, I can't walk. But if you actually walk, if you are that sore and you can sit on your couch after a big effort and be like oh my god i can't walk but if you actually walk if you are that sore and you just walk for like 10 minutes it's actually amazing how good you'll feel after and if you really just sat down and rested you

might turn into like concrete stiffer right stiffer yeah and actually and that's actually what's happened to some of my foot injuries after a a big effort, I would be like, oh, my God, I needed some rest. And my foot would get so stiff, and I would have this pain in the top of my toe. And I'm like, dude, what's happening? And I talked to Kelly. He's like, dude, think of your hand. He said you need to flush a lot of that tissue out because it got so tense. So then it would cause my foot.

Was the pain by your big toe? It was in the arch of the foot oh the arch okay but the pain would like I would have this like feeling of like it's like a twitchy feeling when I like touch my when I touch my toe and he was just telling me he's like there's actually this guy that he sent me I forgot his page

but he was like it's like this pencil theory where you get an eraser and you flush out these little like areas between your your skeletal muscles here yeah between the tendons of the feet and then you start flushing it out it's just like doing myofascial release but you're doing it on such a small part of the foot and dude instantly i felt better like the next day i told kelly i'm like dude i could run on the top of my foot kind of in between the big toe and the second toe there's a spot that i can push on and i feel all the way through my

pinky toe i feel all the way through the inside of my foot and there's a spot that I can push on and I feel all the way through my pinky toe. I feel all the way through the inside of my foot. And there's just something in there that like needs the pressure kind of like released and it gets better and better by just working on it. So. Is this what you're talking about? Yeah, exactly this. Yeah. I don't know how I, I think we've talked about this before, maybe I would guess previously,

but I do remember somebody talking about the benefits of specifically a pencil eraser too. It's the best form factor because the eraser itself is a small. Yeah. You know, you multiple times you've mentioned the way your body's changed as you started running more like from the beginning till now. And even though you were, you know,

you were a football player, you were a receiver, meaning you were running a lot. How did your body change as you started to run more and increase your frequency with running because i still find it shocking that you did for 30 days and survived that you know so how much more change did you get like what are you noticing i think one as i've kind of like stepped into wellness more i've like try to just like understand the body better right and i think there's a mixture of like obviously my my base now like when i can still go play football right now it would be's a mixture of like obviously my my base now like when i can still go

play football right now it would be a little bit of a different stimulus for me though like i would probably need a day to throw on the cleats and like do more change of direction yeah i know that i'm not working those muscles as much but i think a lot of my base from football a lot of the speed and agility a lot of the fast twitch muscle fibers though that part of my training and lifestyle before has really helped in this sport where it's a lot more slow twitch. It's just your ability to get off the ground, kind of bounding off one foot to another.

But I think the biggest change I've seen is just one to your point of my lower trunk. That's where a lot of my muscle is now because I live on the sled going forward, backwards, side to side and just finding different ways to train the lower body. A lot of my muscle is now in the legs where before I was way beefier up top. Like I would be able to bench like 225, like probably for like 10, 15 reps where now it's

like, I'm just not able to tolerate that much strength as much as much. But I think the biggest change has been in my legs and as much, they've gotten a lot more durable. And through the ultras I've done through the marathons I've done, it's really helped me just kind of like well round my whole system. Yeah. So that's probably the biggest thing durable. And through the ultras I've done, through the marathons I've done, it's really helped me just kind of like well-round my whole system. Yeah. So that's probably the biggest thing. You've done ultras?

I've done a 50K, 50 miler, and 100 miler. Damn. People need to address working on their strength. Because a lot of people, they fall in love with running, which is awesome. That's great. They fall in love with some sort of movement. But I think if you want to get better at it and you have symptoms, like you're in pain, People, they fall in love with running, which is awesome. That's great. They fall in love with some sort of movement.

But I think if you want to get better at it and you have symptoms, like you're in pain. I love a lot of what you're saying. Like that's wild that you can go out and play football. These are goals that people should have. And I know you're still young, but how cool would that be if you're my age and you can still say that? Like, yeah, I would need a couple weeks to train, but I could still go out and play some football. I could still go out and get open against a 25 year old guy trying to cover me or something like that's sick. I think that's really cool.

And it's a really great goal. But for people to stay healthy, I think they're looking for the magic. And we talk a lot about sleep and food and there's tons of stuff. But don't forget about forget about how powerful it can be just to help yourself to get a little bit stronger. And it doesn't require, I love lifting weights. I know that you love lifting weights. We spend a lot of time doing it, but I honestly think people could spend two or three hours a week, maybe even a little bit less than that. You probably get away with a little less

than that. And maybe not a lot of it's even gym time. Could just be some dumbbells, could just be a kettlebell, could be body weight exercises, but you'd be shocked at what you can get from some strength training. It can go a really long way. I mean, I couldn't agree more. And I think the mantra in the running world has always been, know just run more like instead of right instead of cross training if you take that extra 60 minutes could you just get better if you ran more or did more cardio right and i think it's it is one of those mentalities where nowadays there's so much research behind it yeah you're seeing elite athletes and kipchoge i think is a great example of someone who still does strength training and it might be at a low level where

it's like maybe just working through range of motion, doing mini band work, really working on the small muscles, but he's doing something. And there's definitely a translation of strength in the weight room than to go translate that into your activity or your sport. And I think it's the way you're training in the gym, right?

Because you don't need to be doing Olympic lifts if you're a runner, but there's a lot of movements in the gym that simulate running, whether it's step-ups or step-downs or lunging or what's it called? Bear crawls. There's a lot of different ways to create the same angles that you're trying to create in running in the gym. And I guess for me, I'm so used to it. And I guess that that's kind of been my world, right?

Because I've always been around football, and there's strength and speed and agility in football you go in the weight room and then we'll come on the field and we're going to do specific receiver stuff and just change the direction drills in general so i've always lived in that world of being able to do both so now when i got into running i'm like well it makes total sense to keep lifting why would i just completely stop lifting and just only commit to running where i think there's a benefit to really doing both and i think for most people it's one it's a lack of education for it right but it doesn't have to be so complex everyone nowadays they see all these things on instagram on social media where oh my god this guy's doing this crazy type of lunge or this crazy deadlift where in reality if you can

hinge if you can squat if you can split lunge and do some plyometrics and do single leg exercises, those five things will cover a lot of the basis for running. And you don't have to do barbells either. You can just do body weight or simply pick up some dumbbells. And people will kind of say, yeah, but I have shin splints. And it's like, again, if you just took a moment and got off your feet and went into a gym and did some bent over rows or seated rows or dumbbell presses, worked on your shoulders, worked on other areas of your body, not only is that working on building muscle mass potentially in another area, but don't forget, it's also getting you away from the thing that you love doing that's actually kind of giving you more damage to those particular

areas. And it's like you said earlier, right? Like typically for growth, you have to go through some pain, right? Soft tissue sucks. Soft tissue hurts. And that's for most people. They need to sprinkle in a little bit more soft tissue and a little bit more strength. Those two pieces, in addition to running, you can create a beast runner.

But like a lot of people don't do soft tissue either. It's like I've realized that a lot of the people in running- Can you explain what soft tissue stuff is? Soft tissue is just like foam rolling, myofascial release. It could be with a lacrosse ball. It could be with a foam roller.

It could be what I'm doing with this little blue thing right now where I'm really putting a lot of pressure deep down into the fascia of my foot. But, you know, the old mantra of stretch more when you're hurt

or put ice on that injury is just so old school and it's been so proven that it doesn't work. It actually restricts more blood flow. And I think if anyone takes anything from this pod, it's understand that your body wants to create blood flow for it to recover. And the more you can do that in a soft tissue environment where pretty much you can watch TV, do your leisure activities, but just incorporate this little piece into your lifestyle. And I think that's where a lot of my ability to stay healthy has been the hours where I'm not running

and the hours where I'm not in the gym. When I'm standing at home in my office, I'm standing just like this. I have some form of a roller, a slant board, a balance tool, something where I'm stimulating my body, even as I just stand here. And I think when I'm watching TV, I'll sit in the couch stretch and just work on my flexion

all day or I'll get in boots or I'll do some form of myofascial release where the secret is in the other 22 hours of the day, not the two hours you're in the gym or running. But most people want the answers for those two hours where in reality, it's everything else that you're doing in your lifestyle. You can fix your own pain. It's an unbelievable thing. If you work on some of the myofascial release, and Seema just grabbed this,

what is this thing called? Roller 8 or something like that? Roller recovery, I think. It's on there. Roller recovery. This device is amazing. It's kind of like a vice. You can put your forearm in there,

your arm in there, or your shin or your leg. And you can work your hamstrings, your legs, your calves, your shins. There's a lot of great products out there on the market. You can also just get a lacrosse ball, a softball. You can get these inexpensive things. And these are things, it's kind of amazing that you can heal yourself.

You can just put a ball in the ground and literally just squish your foot on that ball. And you'll get so much relief and so much decompression of the feet that you will kind of be in disbelief of how great that will make you feel and how much just congestion you can get rid of for yourself. And you can hire someone to help you with these things and that can be great. I do both. I have someone that comes and tries to work on me almost every week. But in addition to that, probably, I don't know, an hour people don't have the capacity or the money to actually pay for a deep tissue masseuse or to pay to get physical therapy or to pay to get dry needling done. The liberating feeling of having a foam roller or just a lacrosse ball, which costs less than $15. That feeling of like, oh shoot, I feel good. I feel recovered and ready to go attack this next workout or the next run it is something i think for most people like it's a it's a rewarding feeling one thing i've noticed is like when it comes to stuff like rolling a few years ago it started getting kind of a bad rep and there were a few people saying oh it doesn't make that big of a difference you don't need to spend as much

time doing that but like one thing that we've noticed is we have a habit every day like every single morning i wake up i have a hard roller at home i I'll roll my back, quads, everything on that. I use this thing while sitting down. That's why I really like this. Mark introduced me to this thing. So you can be sitting on the couch. You can just be standing and you can be smashing your quads and everything with it. But with like jujitsu and all the movement stuff that I do, that has been a huge habit.

And I don't get as much body work done from like a PT as Mark does. I don't get as much body work done from like a PT as Mark does. But like you mentioned, I think it's huge to understand that you don't need to, you don't need to see someone to get the benefit of all of this. You don't really have a much restriction either. Like you, like I was showing you something, I was like, I got a lot of like crazy tension right here with when I'm, when I sit on this, uh, this like medicine ball that we had in the gym and you're like, yeah, I was like, I, you're like, I got like a little bit. So again, it's all like symptom related. Like if you have symptoms and shit hurts, you're going to have to spend more

time on it. If you don't have symptoms and you don't feel like it's a limiting thing, it's probably something you can spend a lot less time on. That is true. But one thing I do notice is that when I start to back off, cause what we tend to do is when we start feeling really good, we back off of the things that have been working. When I start to back off, then I start to, oh, oh, that little tightness is my lower back is coming back. Oh, my glutes start to feel a little tighter. Then you start the habit again. But if like you mentioned, stay ahead of it, bake it into your day, like you were just talking about, which is what we do here. Then like you can get a point where you are pain-free. And on the pain-free side of things, you've mentioned that multiple times.

How long have you been pain-free? Have you just, has that just been how you've been for a while now? I would say since I've been in Austin, prior to Austin, I had chronic shin splints. So even last year, so it's right around this time, February of 2022, I ran the Austin Marathon. But four weeks before that race, I actually just like cut off a lot of my load of running because that's the worst shin splints. I couldn't go for four or five miles. So at the time is the first time I got introduced to go to. And I really was, I was making my trip down. I moved from Maryland to Texas.

And I started making my road trip down. I stopped in louisiana pit stop at the go-to guys and they kind of they saw a lot of my mechanics and they saw some of my running videos and form and they're like dude you have good form but they're looking at where i was landing on my foot your hips is backwards right so they were all like they they go full all out of like being the back chain which has helped but i realized after that race i'm like hold on that pain that i was talking about with the eraser came back so that was around march through april where i was like oh shit

something's wrong with my foot in reality it was just super super stiff so i would say from may till right around now knock on wood yeah i haven't had anything major now i've done some stuff where i've like rolled my ankle on the trail and like that's different because it's like a specific thing yeah but nothing for overuse so I would say for the past like seven to eight months I've had nothing drastic happen and in those times I ran sub I ran two sub three marathons I've completed New York yeah which was kind of more for fun but I would say I've been feeling pretty good since that point can I ask you a question have you ever tried the monkey foot to be Alice race yes you have did that do anything for you because well real quick one thing i've noticed when i was doing that because i was getting shin splints before i was using that

and then afterwards because like it takes your leg all the way down here sorry for my ashy feet guys stretches the foot stretches the ankle and shin and then you come into this and then it brings you all the way back so you're getting that full range of motion while strengthening the tib. Did that make any difference for you at all? It's definitely been a sliver, I think. Okay. I think it's hard for me to be like, this is the thing, you know, because I've done, I've tried so much, right? Yeah.

I've done the tib raise. I've done a lot of ATG stuff. I've done some go to stuff. I've done, I've really done anything under the sun that I've seen that's like, okay, it's foot specific, ankle specific, shin or calf related. So I think the addition of all of it slowly has been what's helped me. And it's like we talked about 1%, right? And if I'm hearing you right, running less may have been the overarching thing to help the most. Running less and running less intense.

That I think has been the biggest piece. Less intense. That I think has been the biggest piece. And then there's things underneath it, which is like the sled, getting into minimalist shoes, getting out of running shoes all the time. So everything is now kind of compounded over the past eight months where it's like, oh, shoot. Now I think I got it somewhat figured out. And I'm far from an expert still. I mean, I'm only two years into running. I'm still very beginner in a lot of things.

But in terms of me understanding my body i think i'm an expert in that at least but matt my shoulder hurts when i bench i bench twice a week i've been benching twice a week for the last several years my shoulder's killing me when i bench press i mean i would yeah i i don't i'm not gonna bro maybe bench a little bit less often i mean maybe lighten the weight. Maybe try a different movement. Hold a plank first and see if that hurts. I think it's really simplifying things. Can you get in a push-up position?

Does that hurt? Yeah. Because maybe we need to back off for a little while. Maybe we need to rebuild. Maybe you just question a little bit of not everything that you're doing, but maybe question a little bit of what you're doing. How has the barefoot shoe helped? You're mentioning these things kind of helping maybe in a small factor in terms of the shin splints.

How do you think a minimalist shoe has helped with shin splints? I think it's just from the foot level, the foot is getting stronger with every step that you take in a minimalist shoe. Right? And if you think about the goal of the technology in running shoes now,'s to make it more comfortable right we're seeking comfort and the squishy midsole the carbon fiber plate it creates an easy ease of use your foot doesn't have to do much work so now when you eliminate that and you get into a minimalist shoe or a barefoot shoe now you feel the ground and every single step you take and that's why there's a break-in period where it's like you shouldn't go from zero to a hundred, right? Cause that would once again be stupid, like starting maybe two days a week, slowly incorporating it on some small walks or things

of that sort. But once that becomes a, okay, now I can do this Monday through Sunday. Every day I could wear a barefoot shoe and have no issue. I think over time, my foot has just gotten stronger. Now I'm not saying that the barefoot shoe or minimalist shoe has been the only thing because it's not. There's a lot of other pieces to that. But I think, one, it creates this level of awareness for me too where now when I go to the airport or when I'm walking or sitting at Chipotle, I can go sit in my Asian squat. And I don't care what the looks I get because I'm just like I'm working on my mobility. It keeps me more cautious because at any point of the day, I could work on mobility. It doesn't just have to be when I'm at home or when i'm doing x y and z it could be when i'm at

costco i'm like oh there's a long line shit asian squad i could work on the post chain get some rdls in whatever um so i think over time it's just become it's like built into my lifestyle my routine and the minimalist shoes you may run in them a bit but you also are kind of using them strategically you're not um you have certain runs where you'll run in them a bit, but you also are kind of using them strategically. You're not, you have certain runs where you'll run in like just a running shoe that's going to actually help propel you forward, right? Exactly. So, I mean, pretty much when I'm in most of my other runs, I wear some form of a running shoe. When I'm in the gym, I'm in always in a barefoot shoe. If I'm sprinting, I'll either go completely barefoot or get into a minimalist shoe because

I can really, the velocity when you're sprinting, it's forcing you to really get on your toes and be on the forefoot, right? So naturally you're going to be in a running gait that is really natural to the human body. Heel striking is not natural. There's nothing natural about it. That's why when you take your shoes off, there's very few people that heel strike when they sprint. It just doesn't happen. It's not the, it's not the best, it's not the most efficient way for your body to pick up speed. So incorporating pieces of that barefoot sprint work has also been a big thing. Um, but yeah, I would say I use barefoot shoes, minimalist shoes almost all the time when I'm not running. Yeah. And one thing we were talking about on the gym is you mentioned

like you on a trail and you did notice when you were using one of those minimalist trail shoes that your foot had so much fatigue. And you just tell them about what happened. Yeah. I mean, one of my friends wanted to go on a quick trail run. And I had like a 16-mile workout that day. It was just a long run getting miles on the feet. The first six miles, I wore these Vivo barefoots.

And we went through a trail. So it's a mixture of, you know, hiking, jogging, running, kind of everything in between. I felt pretty good for the first six miles. And this was the first time I really took barefoot shoes for a run. So six miles, I'm like, or after I was done, I'm like, all right, did the math. I'm like, I got eight or nine more miles. And in my head, I'm like, that shouldn't be too bad. Especially now I'm going to get into cushion shoes. It should feel real easy. But the back half of those miles, I started to feel more fatigued, like my entire body. Because when you're in minimalist shoes or barefoot shoes, like the energy that you have to use to focus on your foot placement, to focus on your foot itself impacting the ground, it's a lot of energy. Even though you don't feel it that much because, you know, for me at that point, six miles, it was more of like an easy run I could do.

But then I noticed in the back half, it wasn't just the heat in Austin. I felt like I used more energy in those first six miles. So even as I was wearing these Hoka shoes, I'm like, dude, why does this feel so hard? Like eight miles around a trail, like it shouldn't feel this difficult, but it did. And I think it's just, it shows you that when you're using barefoot shoes, it requires more out of your body and your mind. And that's why, Mark, like you've mentioned, people have talked about you having your Nike super shoes and like, I thought you wear barefoot shoes. But those shoes tend to save your feet when you're doing heavier mileage. And just save your like lower leg, you know, maybe for someone that doesn't have experience running, it might not be a bad place to start. for someone that doesn't have experience running, it might not be a bad place to start. I do think that you can train your feet and you can, there's other ways to train your feet, you know, and I

would say it's similar to like a lifting strap, like straps and lifting. It might help save your elbows, can allow you to overload, you can be able to handle more weight. But if you're someone that's powerlifting and cares about having like a strong deadlift without straps, then you're going to have to also train your grip. And so in this case, you're going to want to train the feet, train the shins, train the calves, train the lower leg. But in addition to that, just wear whatever shoes feel good. Like so much of running, what I'm learning, so much of running comes down to like what feels good for you, food feels right for you it doesn't matter if it's not incrustable it doesn't matter if it like doesn't fit this like particular diet protocol it doesn't matter that you know what you want to bring with you or what you want to wear

maybe isn't the most ideal thing what matters is how comfortable are you with it because sometimes you're running for several hours it's've got to be comfortable with it. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think so many people get into this analysis paralysis because there's so much information now. What shoes should I wear? What vest should I bring? What socks are going to help me?

And I'm just like, dude, guys, at the base level of all of this, it's none of that, right? Obviously, you have to go out and you have to put some work in because you have to understand your body and how it adapts. You're probably kind of slow. Yeah, I mean, and that, right? Obviously you have to go out and just you have to put some work in because you have to understand your body and how it adapts. You're probably kind of slow.

Yeah, I mean, and that's okay. And that's okay. You're probably kind of slow if you're trying to find the percentage in those other things. A hundred percent. Like just take your time and over time you're going to get faster.

It's going to be all right. It's patience. It's patience. What's the difference in your foot strike when you're using those different shoes on runs? Because like one thing I noticed is you gifted me one of those ultra super shoes, right? And the first run I did with you and I'm like, I can like heel strike right now without feeling any type of impact on my body. But if I

try to heel strike at Vivo's dog, it's like, ah, you know what I mean? So like, what's the difference for you? And what have you noticed when you're trying to run in those different shoes? Yeah, I think this is a great, great question, especially coming from the marathon because i was wearing the alpha flies right the the the freaking super shoe um and in the videos like my brother took a ton of video and you can see my foot it's kind of mid mid striking it's closer to heel striking though because of how cushion the shoe is and with the the beveled edge right it almost forces your foot that way yeah you can try to stay so heavy on the forefoot but then you're not really using the energy return of the shoe. The goal of that shoe is that it gives you a little bit of propulsion forward.

So even when you're midfoot to almost closer to heel striking, you'll still have that like, oh, shoot, I'm still able to push forward. Versus when I'm in like a, even like a Nike Pegasus shoe that has less cushion, that has less, doesn't have the carbon fiber plate. I have to focus more on like, all right, stay on the midfoot and kind of keep that repetitive strike. So now I don't, I wouldn't say I forefoot strike as much. I'm probably more in that midfoot, right? Where it's very efficient for my pattern. And I think that's also been an adaptation for me

where it's like finding that middle ground of like not being so forefoot like a sprinter, but also not heel striking like you're walking, right? Because we talked about it like walking versus jogging versus running versus sprinting are four different movements. And each movement requires a different level of mechanics. And that's kind of like that running and jogging space. You have to find out like what's the most efficient pattern for you?

Because some, like my coach heel strikes and he's a runner that's like a sub 220 guy he's and he's also a buck 40 so he's a smaller runner he's been a runner his whole life but at this point it would be stupid for him to change his whole mechanic he's already learned that pattern and there's plenty of olympic runners that also heel strike right you could look at kipchoge but then look at guys that are coming in at like maybe eighth or ninth or 10th place. They might be heel striking. So it's less of like what's better or what's worse. It's more what's better for you.

And what can your body handle over a long period of time for a marathon or whatever distance you're trying to go? So even though so many people have different forms of striking at the highest level, there's nothing in your mind where you think in the long run, this would be the best way to learn how to run. Because everybody has different body types. And for someone who's much lighter, a heel strike won't send as much impact up the body. But when you're heavier, I wonder, is there some type of foot strike that you'd want to try to learn or lean towards for your longevity within running? I don't know that, but I'm curious if you have any thoughts. I would say for most people, if you can midfoot strike, that's probably the most sustainable. Okay. Like just like, I think very simply, like even if you look at the data, like there's

a lot of books on like the science of running where they test different runners of like this percentage of runners for a marathon, forefoot strike, midfoot strike, heel strike. The time differences aren't very much, but they noticed that a lot of, forefoot strike, midfoot strike, heel strike. The time differences aren't very much, but they noticed that a lot of the forefoot and midfoot strikers were the leaders of the pack. They were closer to winning the actual race. And not saying that the heel strikers weren't because there was a couple of them probably

that were in like the top 10% echelon, but they noticed that more runners were midfoot or forefoot strikers that performed better. So I think for my trainer thought is if you can develop a midfoot strike, it's a sustainable running mechanic. And if you can do that over a long period of time, you can start to really get faster and own that position. And some of these things might matter a little bit less when you're starting out

because you're just moving slower. Exactly. Or at least you should be moving slower because you should be taking your time and you're not producing as much force. So it should be wreaking less havoc on your body. And so it would be a good idea at that time while you're moving slower to get yourself to strike in a place that feels good for you, that feels right for you. Some of the argument with a heel strike is interesting.

I've heard people just say uh that for some people that do heel strike they're maybe just taking less overall steps because they're they might end up having a a longer stride for themselves not a longer stride in comparison to somebody else that's interesting the cadence stuff is interesting where people talk about uh 180 steps you know per minute have you messed with that at all or found that to be anything beneficial to you? I've done some research in addition to testing on myself where I would literally,

I'd look at my watch, I'd be like, all right, 60 seconds, let me count every single step. And just to see on an easy run versus when I'm doing a speed play, like a fartlek workout, do I get the same amount of steps in? And typically on easy

runs i would average at like 80 to 85 steps because naturally you're not going as fast but you still want to be able to get that amount of steps in that same 60 seconds whether you're going fast as hell or on an easy run so then i would just track it like all right now i'm going to go at my speed play and i would get closer to 90 but it was about five off and i know and i think that's okay actually because even on an easy effort, if you're able to create that many steps, which basically just means

you're putting your foot on the ground, right? Because to get faster, you got to drive off the ground. It's less of you just picking up your knee. It's to push off the ground, right? So if you're able to create those same amount of steps, that same cadence, whether you're running at nine minute pace or six minute pace,

it means that you have a good understanding of your cadence as a human. So I think you should test it. It honestly gets a little bit crazy because you could look at watches, but typically watches are a little bit off. They'll tell you like, oh, 168, 169, 171, whatever it is. But I would just take a minute, time yourself,

count each step and then just do the math yourself. But I've noticed i haven't dove too deep into that stuff though but it probably is just an indication that you are springy right if you're getting in the proper amount of steps exactly exactly which i think is a great thing for running moving slower and just heavier most people the injury happens when they're spending too much time on the ground between each footstep and like that was one of the main principles in born to run where it's like you want to spend as little time on the ground because the less time you're on the ground which basically means you're elastic right you're able right so versus someone who's like this like and each step because you think

about how much pressure is absorbing in that one foot it's typically 180 plus pounds of weight on one foot the longer you spend there the more chance of injury happening So you want to be bouncy you want to be elastic in in your foot in your achilles level now let me ask you this because A lot of people who might be coming from the strength training side of things. Let's say it's a power lifter Even a bodybuilder where there's not much there's quite a bit of stiffness in their gait, right? how would you help? Like what concepts would you tell somebody to try to deal with in terms of getting rid of stiffness,

opening up their gate? Because like if somebody that's really built tries to immediately start opening up, that's when some people pull shit, right? So what would you have them think about or try to do and progress? I mean, obviously, both of you guys have mentioned going slow initially, right? But what do you think that progress looks like? Obviously, both of you guys have mentioned going slow initially, right? But what do you think that progress looks like?

I actually think for someone in that case, doing speed work could actually open them up. Not speed work where you're not warming up and you try to go freaking 50-yard dash, but actually starting with some striders barefoot would be a great foundation. You do some of that where naturally you're just going to get into a runner mechanic, right? You don't have to teach someone how to run. It's innate in every single human. We just know how to do it. Since you're a baby, you learn how to crawl, you learn how to walk, then you learn how to run. No one teaches you the proper way, right? You figure it out. Unless you're in track and you get hyper-specific, no one's going to really teach it to you. So even for a powerlifter now, I've gone on runs with guys that lift that lift lift and a lot of times they do get tense right because their their their limbs are just it's so much mass that their their joints aren't used to it so i think the best thing would

be go on a grass go on turf open up and just kind of build out some striders just to feel that and then from there you can kind of get into details of like all right like this is where your foot's landing or you know can we now do it in a side to side motion or a backward motion, right? Just changing the muscles in the mind too, where it's like you have to develop a different stimulus. Because now you're not coming from a lifting world. Most of those guys haven't been, their body's not used to feeling that feeling of running side to side or running backwards or running forward. So I would start there and then working through some mobility will definitely help because if their hips are super tight,

it's going to get tight at mile two. So I would say striders and actually going into more sprinting might be beneficial for someone like that. How about pushing a sled or something like that? Yeah, I think that too, right? Running up a hill. Running up a hill is a great way because naturally it forms, you're going to work proper mechanics. And I was telling mark this earlier the hundred up which is literally

for anyone let alone a power lifter or or just a general pop like literally just being able to drive your knee up this literally they did this study on this doctor that didn't have time to train for marathons all he had time for was in between patients he would literally get a hundred reps with each leg just bringing bringing it up to 90 degrees. Just like standing. Just marching in place. And then he then developed that into running in place. So the same thing, but now you're going at a higher intensity and incorporating that little piece.

So I think the mixture of sled work, of hills, of some striders, I would almost reverse it. If you want to run farther, let's focus on running faster right now and working on the proper mechanics. We got to bring this one in. I have a really important meeting that I have to run to and I will have to come back and we'll have to kind of finish this.

I apologize for that, but it's just circumstances that I couldn't change the schedule of some stuff. So Andrew, take us on out of here, buddy. So I guess we'll just be right back after a little bit then, right? Yeah, cool. All right, check out this ad

and I'll see you guys in a few. Hey, Pavarocci family, shut your mouth. No, not really, but kind of. You should keep your mouth shut when you're asleep. Now on the podcast, we've been talking about the importance of nasal breathing for years. And we've been talking about using mouth tape

during your sleep for years as it's going to help your sleep quality because you're going to be breathing through your nose. We had James Nestor, author of Why We Sleep. Actually, that was Matthew Walker, but James Nestor, author of Breathe. We had Patch McEwen. We've had so many people talk about the importance of taping your mouth and breathing through your nose when you sleep for your sleep quality, which helps your recovery, which helps every aspect of your health and fitness. So hostage tape, if you want to get some of this to help you sleep better, and it also stays on your face, if you're a bearded man, which is one

of the big problems with mouth tape, that's a hostage tape.com slash power project. And there you can actually get the power project annual deal, which will give you a year supply of hostage tape, 55 cents a day for tape pretty much. And you'll be able to to save 150 along with getting two tins a year supply of tape and a blindfold that is going to be something that you want to get your hands on links in the description along with the podcast show notes shut your mouth and we're back we're back all right round two or round one uh it's still round one yeah it's still round one we just went for a quick bathroom break. Yeah, that was a long poop.

Dude, that was my mile 16 shit break right there. That was a long poop. You gave us a lot of great information on running. I appreciate it. I hope so. Yeah, that's where we're at. You gave us a lot of great information on running. There was one thing, though.

He, in our little shit break,'s talked about his breathing and he breathes different from other runners which is very very interesting yeah he goes no you were mentioning about the nasal breathing and one thing i've heard from a lot of runners is some runners just don't give a fuck they're like oh yeah i'll breathe through my mouth it doesn't really matter you've mentioned your coach but how's it been for you what have you noticed personally i from doing wim hof a lot and just kind of understanding and how to like kind of calm down my personal body, it's been through the nose. Even on some faster tempos, my running coach is always like breathe through the mouth. You'll get more oxygen in when you're going faster.

But even for me, I've noticed that just going through the nose helps me. It's more comfortable. So naturally, I'll just go deep inhale and then slowly exhale it out. Not utilizing so much energy, but I used to mix in different stuff and i was telling we were just going like the double inhale so kind of mixing in just different breaths like especially on easy runs like first of all if you're breathing through your mouth heavily you're probably running too fast at a volume or an intensity that's probably too too much right so i would just say scale it back already um you should be able to have a conversation with someone where you're

then able to just breathe through your nose. But I would say for me, nasal breathing has helped tremendously from mouth breathing. Is it something you, did you implement it on purpose or did you just kind of come across it with the Wim Hof stuff? And over time I just came across it from the Wim Hof. So then I just started, I wanted to see if doing stuff in a stationary meditational practice translates into like an actual physical activity. Because it's easy to, it's easier to control your breath when you're laying on the floor and just meditating and controlling on just your breath. But now can you do that in an environment where your heart rate's up, where you're doing

physical activity. So I kind of want to just take it from that world and then implement it into the actual running. Have you tried nasal breathing only during that? I actually haven't. And we were talking about the mouth stretch. The hostage tape, yep. Yeah, so I haven't done that. I would be intrigued.

Yeah. When you post those videos, I'm like, shit, Mark looks crazy. But it would be interesting. It would be very interesting. Yeah, it's easy to get used to like it it might take a minute you know um uh but yeah at first you're a little bit like but if you try it without the tape you're gonna end up cheating like you're just gonna be like okay well every couple steps you know every you know every other i don't know

you're start to make shit up and you're, you're gonna, you're going to cut corners and you're gonna cheat. I would suggest trying it. I think it could be really beneficial. I'd look into that. It's going to keep your, keep your heart rate, uh, real modest. Do you, do you look at your heart rate? Do you watch a lot of this stuff or did you ever get into that? Almost like calorie counting. Like I know in SEMA has mentioned how important calorie counting can be for somebody that's never dieted before because now they can start to have a look into like how many calories they're eating and then over time they could learn to do without actually calculating do you have you looked at heart rates and stuff or I look at heart rate but remember we're on the run talking about it like the watches are so inaccurate well not so inaccurate so inaccurate, but they're off. So it's hard for me to gauge it.

Like when I'm on an easy run, I know my heart rate is not at 165, 170, even though the watch says it is. So I've never actually gotten a heart rate monitor, which would be the best way to really track it accurately because you can connect it Bluetooth to your watch and you can see the actual number there. But a lot of it has been a feel thing

where if I feel like I could have a conversation, if I feel like I'm not panting for more more air i know i'm at a good state we're looking at like just like at my pace itself are your coaches like pissed at you not so much what are you doing how come you don't have because don't they want these numbers don't they want these data points to really look at i mean personally my coach not as much i mean we have more of like a a very just conversational up-to-date like relationship where like we're like friends and then he's like my coach so like i'll just tell him like how a run went like specifically on harder workouts is where where he cares more because if he sets up like a six mile easy he just expects me to go super slow don't there should not

be much thought into it it's just like go it's like brainless miles you know but the harder workouts interval repeats fart fart licks, tempo runs, threshold workouts, that's where he's like, all right, well, how difficult was it? And it's more of like that's the conversation versus like, all right, what was your heart rate at on rep four versus rep nine? It was more like, all right, well, what's the RPE, like the rate of perceived effort?

And if you're in that like six to seven, that means it's a good because it's a challenge, but it's not daunting. And it's not too easy at the same time. And if it's nine, 10, it's a good because it's a challenge but it's not daunting um and it's not too easy at the same time and if it's nine ten it's a problem because if i'm struggling to get through a workout that's probably it's it's too difficult for me for where my fitness is at at that moment so you also might make modifications if you're like man my hip flexors you know hurt and for some reason i don't know what's going on 100 it could be that the running is too intense and honestly we talked about it like even this past eight weeks i've probably been 70 on for my workouts which like the other 30 are like either

me not completing them all the way or because of travel having to adjust my my routine and i think when i heard this the rule of thirds where a third of your workouts are going to be like on point you feel like i'm going to crush this marathon crush this race whatever but then another third are going to be like solid you got through them right like they're good workouts and another third are gonna be like fuck i'm not ready these like i felt like shit today right little self exactly right so they the rule of thirds is always there and i think it's relatable in life too as well where it's like every day is not going to be great exceptional but there's gonna be some good days some bad days some some solid days and i think if you can stay even keel through those days it makes the marathon prep a lot easier because

marathon training is tough it's like a full-time job yeah you're becoming more and more popular uh your instagram is growing your your social media is growing uh you're getting more eyes on you get more um more recognition. How has that been? And what happens in the comment section? Does this affect you negatively? Have you kind of gone down that rabbit hole? Do you click on the person that made the negative comment? And like, fuck, the motherfucker's private.

How far down? Does this drag you down at all, bother you at all? I mean, it's one, I'm super humbled at the fact that I've been able to grow an audience and people care enough about what I'm doing that they're inclined to make a comment, whether it's positive or negative. It's super humbling. For someone like me that is typically very positive and optimistic, it sucks seeing people that are like, oh, this guy's a fraud.

This guy's X, Y, and Z. Of course that shit sucks. Who wants to hear that? Who wants to see it? But I think for me, it goes to a place of these people don't really know who I am. And the same thing with the people that give me love. They don't really know who I am either. So as long as like I know where my intent is and I know what I'm trying to do in this world,

as long as that is positive and clear in my head, that for me is really what matters. And the external stuff outside of all of that, besides my inner circle and my family, as long as those people that really know who Matt is, as long as they understand that I'm a high quality human, that's really my judgment of success. Less of like someone that has, whether they have a following or not, it's like, it's quite irrelevant because I might never see that person. So I think any human, any influencer, any creator that's in this space, like you put yourself out there and you know that it's not going to always be rah-rah and good things.

You put yourself out there, there's going to be love, there's going to be hate as well. So I think I've, I would rather the hate not happen, but I understand that it's just part of the game and it's just a matter of how you can actually handle it internally. Why are people calling you a fraud? What's going on? It's this new drama that got drummed up recently. A hundred percent. I mean, let's just chat about it now. I mean, so I ran in the Houston Marathon on Sunday and by the time I tried to sign up for my bib, registration was closed. And in the past, I've gotten into races. What's a bib? A bib is just like the actual placement. It's you registering for a powerlifting competition. The number that they give you in the race. The number that they give you, exactly.

And it's basically verifying that you signed up and you did the proper steps to get into this race or whatever. So I tried to get my bib a couple weeks ago. And typically in some races, you can get a bib 24 hours before a race because they're not sold out. And at the end of the day, these races and marathons, they want to profit. They want to sell out as many quote-unquote bibs or registrations

as possible because it's a moneymaker but houston did they sold out of bibs in like january like the end of december maybe so by the time i tried to get one it was too late so then i kind of went into the mode of like all right shoot like i made a human error like i should have paid attention more and gotten this earlier but i didn't so now my mind goes to a place where it's like all right what do i do now like i can either just say screw this race i've just been training but not run it or reach out and find people that might have a extra bib in that case so i've reached out to one of my buddies james row who who has a run club in atlanta called arc and i just'm like, yo, does anyone in the club have an extra bib that they're not going to use? And he's like, yeah, we got three extra bibs.

I'm like, shit. I was like, dude. So that means these people aren't actually running in the race. Exactly. I mean, so this stuff happens quite often, right? Like if you're training for something and something pops up and you twist your ankle or you get hurt or life happens, you have to go to a wedding or whatever. Someone might not run a race that they bought a ticket for, bought a bib for. So the race, the marathon, they get to just pocket that money and there's one less person that's running.

So for me, I was just like, I thought of it as like a no harm, no foul. Like, let me just get a bib. And obviously I couldn't transfer my name because Houston just doesn't allow transfers of bibs. Other races do. I couldn't transfer my name because Houston just doesn't allow transfers of bibs. Other races do. So if, if I was running in New York and for some reason I couldn't,

I could be like, yo, Mark's going to go run for me. Right. And like, that's, it's, it's happened in the past.

Yeah. Um, long story short, I end up doing that. I go through that process. I don't transfer the bib over, but I run the race under someone else's bib, someone else's name.

So technically Matt Choi didn't register for this race so i was running in this terminology as a bib mule and i didn't even know that was the thing what is a bib mule so a bib mule i guess from the article that had gotten written about me was basically someone who runs under someone else's name in the goal of like trying to qualify for a race or trying to get in for free or whatever it is like however you want to like contextualize it um the intent was not in that fashion i just wanted to run just to see what i can get as a personal time the dude that i ran for had no intent to run boston like he just this was just another thing that he just had signed up for so it's unfortunate and i think in moments like this

it's like you know it's a test of character as well, right? Like I know there's, I fucked up by not buying one and that's on me and I can take ownership for that. It's unfortunate how far social media can go where it just becomes a negative thing and everyone assumes the worst, right? It's like, oh my God,

this guy's an influencer. He's in the space and now he's trying to take away from the running community, right? And it's like, I feel like all of my actions before this have been the total opposite. It's been only to like bring value or bring more eyes from the running community right and it's like i feel like all of my actions before this have been the total opposite it's been only to like bring value or bring more eyes to the running community because of what it's done for me right like running's changed my life more so

than honestly football in that sense which is crazy to think about since i've only been running for two years you know so it's unfortunate that that had happened and i got to take ownership for for my actions and it's a good learning lesson for me moving forward that like, I can't just take things so lightly. Like that's always been my mindset. Like it's not that the end of the world, like, like Mark, I'm just using someone's bib. It's not like I'm trying to cheat or I'm not trying to like, you know? So for me, there was no malicious intent, but obviously from the outside looking in, people are going to have their skepticism or assumption on what happened. So for me, it's like now I got to understand that I have to dot my I's and cross my T's better

and cover my own ass in that sense. You got to also think if you were trying to be purposefully a bib mule, why would you film the whole marathon? Hey, mile one, mile two, all the way to mile 26. That's not a very secretive bib mule. You weren't hiding it. And I mean, dude, and I've been making content around the Houston marathon. Like,

and I, I always do these preps where it's, I'm bringing the people along with me, right? Where it's like, Hey, I'm five weeks out from the race, four weeks out from the race.

I think for me, just like life's been, you know, happening so fast where I just forgot to sign up. And like, honestly, people that actually know me, like they,

this is like normal behavior where I'll, I literally got my hotel ticket for Sacramento yesterday when I landed in Sacramento. Like that type of shit is just how I operate as an entrepreneur, as a human. We're the same. I don't stress about like the minute details. And I know that in this scenario, like it's bigger than just the details because, you know, now it's like my image and the brands I work with. And it is unfortunate because, you know, it is self-inflicting in that sense. But I'm fully taking ownership for it. Right. It's like I'm not trying to point the finger and be like oh

my god like I can't believe this is happening to me what was me mentality I'm almost trying to figure out like what's the best way to kind of deal with this type of negative backlash you know because it is like it's I'm crossing into a field now where it is different because most of my shit's been so positive people have been getting like impacted in their lives and i'm just like damn now someone is taking a story into their own way and people are hearing it and they're making their own assumptions like oh my god i can't believe this and i'm just like damn it's just it's unfortunate the the truth is that you uh maybe are a little laxed and irresponsible and that's about it. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. Same. Last time I went to Austin, Texas, I didn't book a hotel. A lot of times my wife handles stuff like that for me, so I wasn't even really thinking about it. And then I got there and I'm like, I don't have any hotel information. And then I was like, well, I'm not going to worry about it. like hotel information and i was like well i was like i'm not gonna worry about i'll just go i'll just have a uber take me to like a hotel in austin you know and so i asked the uber just to

take me to like a nice hotel like in in austin they dropped me off i walked in and i just i got a room and you know my wife uh she called, she called me later and she's like, she's like, how'd you end up getting a room? Or like what? I was like, I don't know. I just drove to the same hotel that I went to last time and I walked in and I got a room. She's like, Oh my God, that's so lucky. Like that's, that's kind of, yeah, that's, I mean, that's kind of how I roll a lot of

times. And yeah, I was fortunate. I didn't have to go to like seven different hotels or wasn't some major convention going on there, but I do that kind of how I roll a lot of times. And yeah, I was fortunate. I didn't have to go to like seven different hotels. There wasn't some major convention going on there. But I do that kind of shit all the time. I wait till last minute on a lot of stuff. You're also in the Boston Marathon. You're about to go to the Boston Marathon too. Well, I'm running with his bib.

Oh, so you were his bib meal. I was a bib meal. Guys, that's a fucking joke. Before someone makes an article for that. I utilized his time to qualify. Oh, sub three. Good job, Mark. Way to go, Mark.

I'll tell you whatever way I can. Hey, some people earn it and some people just pay for it. But you still earned it because you had to earn that money. That's right. Sold a lot of slingshots for that shit. Well, what's happening with this? Are you going to, do you know if you'll be able to run Boston? Sold a lot of slingshots for that shit. What's happening with this? Do you know if you'll be able to run Boston?

Because you weren't trying to be a bid wheel, right? But your time did qualify for Boston. Yes, I mean, I already qualified. I was going to say your times are already super fast, so I'd imagine you qualified anyway. Yes, I qualified for Boston five months ago in the Tunnel Vision Marathon, right? And what happens in Boston is you have to qualify before the cutoff date, which is November of the year prior to the race. So I had to get a qualifying time before November 2022 to get accepted for Boston April of 2023.

So even the time I just posted for this guy, Eric Lee, in January 15th of 23 23 that's technically a qualifying time for boston 24 so it doesn't even impact it for this year so i think yes i mean that that time is dq'd now like there's no qualifying time for that but i already qualified five months ago when i ran tunnel vision so if there's repercussions now where oh because i did this that they don't allow me run this year i mean that would be super unfortunate but I don't see that happening. It's just DQ424 for that guy. Yeah. So just like fishing for things, like for why like this article was written the way it was.

Like why did the guy who bought the bib, why did he back out of the marathon? Yeah, so he lives in Atlanta and just like couldn't make it. So he had like an injury a couple weeks ago. So just was like i'm not gonna run the race so he just didn't go so it was literally just an extra bib yeah it happened that he's also asian too he's named eric lee so i was like my buddy james like at least it's like at least that's a little bit better like at least it wasn't like a caucasian name or like like something outlandish but yeah the guy basically was injured so he didn't run the race you know it would have actually been better if it wasn't an asian guy because now

they're like oh he's trying to impersonate eric lee it was at least like maybe a six five black dude or something it would have been better you know but you just fucked yourself saying oh my god oh man oh that's too fucking funny yeah and that's what it is and so like how often does this happen though like when somebody will buy a bib and then they can't do it and they can't transfer the name like how often does somebody technically become a mule for somebody else i mean that i just i don't know the exact answer what i do know is i'm sure it's very common that someone runs under a different name just takes a bit right like but you gotta think like for me i'm i'm on socials like i'm on i'm on i make a bunch of content if i made zero videos no one would have really known right but the fact that i'm obviously out there

and putting it out there it made it a very easy target for myself yeah but i'm sure this happens all the time i mean people get into races people things happen in life and no one wants to waste a hundred dollar two hundred fifty dollar whatever the ticket to get into a race is um if someone else is willing to run it it would just benefit the race for more people to be there you know so i'm not i don't know the exact answer clearly it's enough for this guy to have a whole blog around marathon investigation because it's happened in the past and honestly someone wrote in the comments like matt's new to running and this guy derrick's been around in the space and he's found a bunch of other people um that have done similar things obviously because this is a whole this is a proper business um so it's it's not in i really don't

know how often it happens but i'm sure it's it's happening quite i'm sure i wasn't the only one in houston that did that or use someone else's bid maybe not as a meal but you're just using someone's bib why would it be like looked down upon like what's the is there an advantage of well i mean obviously if you have someone that you know is capable of running faster that runs for you to get into a historic race that would be a problem right that's and that's what's happening so i have somebody uh so you wearing this other guy's bib and getting a certain time recorded and then he gets into that race that way. Exactly, which it wasn't technically earned from him. Because it's like the thing is like it's like chipped, right?

It has a chip in it. Exactly. The bib has a chip in it, right, that tells you your time and it's associated to your name. Oh, I see. Okay. And there's thousands of – I get it. There's thousands of people running. It's not like there's like 10 people running. There's thousands of people sometimes running in these see. Okay. So, I mean. And there's thousands of, I get it. There's thousands of people running. It's not like there's like 10 people running.

There's thousands of people sometimes running in these races. Yeah. And obviously the Boston Marathon too, right? Getting a sub three hour marathon is like a goal that some people have for their whole lives. Right? So for that to happen, it's like, shoot, even for me, it took me four marathons to qualify for Boston.

Right? It's like, it's like, it's an achievement that is not just for the faint of heart. Right? So it's like people work their whole lives to do it. And I understand why these people, like why this person would make such a negative article about it. But the fact that like the intent was not in that fashion. Right.

And like, I think that's just on me to maybe clarify that as well, where it's like, I just personally wanted to run the Houston marathon because I had trained for it and I wanted to see what time I could get. Right. For me, I have already qualified for Boston, but I mean mean it makes sense from the outside looking in of

someone being like oh my god this guy's trying to take advantage and run for someone you know you know I'm not in the running space so I don't give a fuck about saying this but you know you're like some people work their whole lives do sub three and I did it in four marathons number one I know you're being cool I know you weren't even trying to sound like that but I'm just like man I could see this this writer dude seeing your instagram and you're like he has a hundred and something thousand followers he has a big ass tiktok and youtube and he just fucking he got into the boston fuck this dude and then just goes in because like little tmz ass gun little fucking gremlin dude. Seriously, I'm not in the space, I don't care.

It doesn't matter. Come after me, motherfucker. Oh, God, that's funny. I said this, not Matt. Yeah, if it was up to him, Matt would probably be like, don't say that. Yeah. He's a grown man right here. Yeah, who's going to stop him?

Not I. Oh, man. yeah who's gonna stop him not i oh man oh yeah i'm just i'm going through the article and i'm trying to understand like why he is writing so mad and like one of the things that's making me laugh now is um quoting to be clear in either case the runner is stealing by taking advantage of a service that they did not pay for just gonna ask did you pay the person back for the bib yeah i mean i paid him it was funny because he was like because i know he was like your venmo yeah i'll have to pull up the venmo he was like yo we should make a joke saying that that i paid you a hundred thousand to go fucking run a sub three for me and i was like that's the last thing we need to do yeah but yes i mean i paid him for the bib which is 150 honestly i did enough homework where I was reaching out and talking to the Houston Marathon like, hey, can we do this?

Can we transfer it? If not, I'll put money in for a fundraiser. But even all the fundraisers were closed. So at that point when the Houston Marathon pretty much gave me, Matt, there's no other option for you. And instantly in my mode, I just went into a problem-solving mode. I'm like, well, all right, well, is it the end of the world if I use someone else's bib? And in my mind, I was like,

it's, it shouldn't be. And obviously this backlash happened like 48 hours after the race. So now I'm just like, all right, well, I'm trying to handle that situation and obviously understand, like,

I want to still push out content from the race, but now it's just so many people are being negative where it's just like, is it even worth? And I'm having people in my community. They're like, that are heavy runners that are like dude i've done this before i've literally had like my father passed away and i end up using his bib or like all these elaborate stories and people are sending me some thoughtful messages which you know it's awesome to hear but at the end of the day there's still a few select people that are like this guy's an asshole he's

i can't believe he's corrupting the system, the running community. And I'm thinking like, damn, for people like me that aren't runners their whole lives, I'm getting into the sport and trying to get ingrained into the community, not in a malicious way, right? Not in a way just for me to get dollars. It's less of that. I do most of these races for myself to just challenge myself, right? It's not because I get to work with these brands X, Y, and Z. z obviously that's been a part of my business and how i've grown my community but

i got into running because it was something that taught me patience it taught me something about delayed gratification and how to really put your time and effort into something to then turn it into something meaningful and that's kind of been my whole journey the past couple years of running and when this stuff happens it's like i can see why other people are like looking from the outside in like, damn, I don't want to be part of the fucking running community. Shit. Someone takes someone's bib and then that becomes a scandal or a cheater.

It's like, shit. If my buddy, Deb told me someone, he's like, dude, if you started at mile 10 and like weaseled your way in to then get a fast time,

that would be something different. But I started with the pack. And I'm sure it happens all the different. But I started with the pack. That happens. And I'm sure it happens all the time. But I started with the pack. I did everything logistically the same besides signing up early enough. And that's totally on me. And I got to take ownership for that.

And so when you did start reaching out, trying to find a bib, the people that you reached out to, have they been in the running community longer? And did any of them stop and say, dude, whoa, you can't do this? Did any of them say, oh, you, whoa, you can't do this. Like did any of them say like,

oh, you better be careful? No, so the, no, no. So I didn't really have that heads up. And this is the first time I've really even been in this angle of like, shit, I forgot to sign up. Like most races I'm already signed up. I'm ready to roll, you know? So this was like,

I was a kind of an unknown territory in that sense. And yeah, I guess I just had that guidance. I even asked my running coach i was like dude i've read the sign for my bib and he was like one of his athletes did the same exact thing and i asked him i'm like dude and he never had mentioned like this this would be the backlash because i don't even think he thought it like he's been in the running space for a while where like this exchange of bibs or transfer of bibs or whatever it's not like uh i don't i don't think it's like an

unknown thing. I think it's also just cause like you have eyes on you that I think that that seems to be the big thing. It's like you have a big following, you know, you've, you've grown and running fairly quickly. So everything you do is going to be seen. There's probably a lot of people who are doing this and they're doing it with malicious intent, except no one, they're not seen, you know? And that's just seems to be very that's very unfortunate man yeah that's just unfortunate yeah and what i was getting at it was like even though people are upset that you are fairly new it's not like you ran out there and like tackled somebody took their bib and be like yep i'm new so it's okay like no you went around you asked you didn't find that bib on your

own right like you asked people yeah and those people knew about running and they've been in it longer than you and nobody stopped and said you can't do this Yeah, you know every somebody would have thrown up a huge red flag if it was gonna lead to all this I couldn't agree more and now it's like for me now I have such a heightened level awareness around this specific topic where if someone was in this Steering around this area and they have some form of an audience or following I would strictly steer them it's not even worth it just like use your training for the next race because this area and they have some form of an audience or following, I would strictly steer them. It's not even worth it.

Just like use your training for the next race. Because honestly, if at the worst case scenario, I like get dropped by all of my brands, like that would be the worst case scenario. Like that would suck. Right. I could still overcome that. But like that would just be shitty. And it's not worth it just to get a time. Right.

Even though I had no malicious intent for this, it's just like it wouldn't be worth the amount of like suffering that you would have to go through to then just run a marathon. At that point, I would just freaking ran the marathon afterwards and be like, all right, everyone, you guys all going and I could just run the course and let me just go run, you know? A lot of times people will point out, especially like distance runners, especially ultra runners in particular, they'll say, uh, a lot of those people have some mental health issues that they're dealing with

and they're going to run it off. And a lot of, uh, a lot of ultra runners have kind of verified that they're like, yeah, I'm, I've got a couple of screws loose and it helps me when I can go really, really far. I get to go into myself. I get to go inward. Do you feel any of that? Like, what do you think is driving you? Because it takes a lot, you know, to run like sub seven minute miles, mile after mile after mile. It's different than just going out there on a brisk jog and being like, oh, I worked up a good sweat. It's way different doing what you're doing. It's kind of, it feels and looks to the outside. It looks punishing. It looks brutal. It looks tough. So what are you experiencing and what is running doing for you? I mean, I think running, to answer your question directly, I think there is a little

mental health piece for me. Like as a former football player, like my identity was so caught up in football. When I had that, when that was eliminated, I kind of got into corporate America. I didn't know who I was as a human. For such a long time, football was like I could use it as my armor. That was my shield of like, oh, worse comes to worse, Matt Choi's a football player. He's an athlete. I could always use that as kind of like my armor in that sense and once that got eliminated i kind of went through my own form of like you know like whether it's seasonal depression or some form of depression of like under like not knowing who i was yeah

and that that not understanding of self in that sense and i think when i got into running first it was oh shit like this is just uncomfortable for me it's challenging and i just wanted to lean into that right that curiosity of like oh, this is something I don't love to do, but can I be disciplined enough to form this into actually like a habit and a routine? But once that over, like I overcame that, right? And I got into running. I'm like, all right, I got better at this. Then it just became my form of solitude to your point, to work through some of those mental demons. I don't really listen to music when I go on runs, right? I'm just kind of in my own self, my own thoughts. And I always tell people like, people are like, what are you, what's your Y, X, Y, and Z? And like, I feel like my Y has been understanding self much better.

And I think so many people, like they, they can't get in their own ears and understand who they are as a human. And they want the validation of so many external things. For me, I get so clear when I'm on runs or I'm doing challenges where I just have space to be in myself. People look at me, they're like, Matt, you're like extroverted. Like I can't imagine you being like an introverted guy, but in reality, I'm actually more introverted than I am extroverted. And it's those moments where I'm in my own solitude. I like, I'm very comfortable in those spaces equally in these environments where I'm able to really showcase my energy and be myself. But I think my ability to be introverted and enjoy the solitude is the reason I can show up for other people, whether it's on social, in person, in real life, whatever it is. So running has allowed me to

have that space where I can do something physical, get that result for myself, like my body in that sense. In addition to the mental aspect of like shit there's always that battle against yourself and like when Goggins talked about that accountability mirror I really like resonated with that shit where it's like at the end of the day there's no one else that you're really battling with right if you can't win the battle against the person you see in the mirror then you're already losing so even when this shit happens to me it's like I know that I'm fully in control that I I'm in control of how I react or how I don't react. And as long as I'm in peace with my own mind, I can't allow all these external things to like dictate who I am as a person because I know that it's not true.

You know, and even though I know I fucked up, like that article is not a representation of who I am as a person. And it sucks that they're steering that message for it to be that way. And that's on me to now clarify and open up and talk about that it was a mistake on my end, right? But I think to answer your question, Mark, like there's definitely a mental health aspect to that too, where I've really found the enjoyment of the solitude and running that it provides me both mentally and physically.

So you look at running, even though you're expending funds on the manager, you look at that shit as a recharge for yourself. It pretty much is. Like that's like, I can't see my days getting started almost without it now, you know know and like that amount of like it's like a meditation state right when you're in flow state like on some of these easy runs and i'm sure you're starting to feel this too mark where it's like shit like seven eight miles and even today when we were chatting

like i didn't i felt like time was going so slow you know we were just like flowing and we were just having awesome conversation and i feel like i'm able to create that almost every day with my life i was uh crying on the inside like this guy's really fat no he he went at a comfortable pace i was lucky that he didn't drag me out in the deep water oh man but yeah it's definitely a form of like that meditation and solitude in that sense and i think that's one of the really amazing things running. And I think that's probably one of the reasons why you love it so much because as much as we love the gym, it's just you can put on a pair of shoes and if you can build the skill, which will just take some repetition,

that is a free way for you to just go out, clear your mind, feel good for the day, and it just takes a pair of shoes. Power Project family, how's it going? I want to talk to you guys about the best gym fits in the game. You need to head over to Viori. People don't know how to spell it. People don't know how to spell it. V-U-R-I.

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Honestly, it looks horrible. So Andrew, please tell the people how to step up their damn clothing game. First, you guys got to step up. Head over to viore.com slash power project. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash power project to receive 20 off your order uh no code needed you guys will see a discount will be applied at checkout banner across the top uh links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes it feels amazing and just going through and reflecting on your thoughts i think that uh to some extent i think some walking can do some

of that but walking's not walking in the beginning for some people might be challenging enough. And if there's hills and stuff, it might be challenging enough, but I think you need to move a little faster, uh, because I do think that there's something to, uh, just exerting yourself, uh, deep breathing. Um, you should be getting rid of a lot of energy. Um, a lot of men really crave, uh, they have a lot of sexual cravings. They have a lot of energy. A lot of men really crave, they have a lot of sexual cravings. They have a lot of food cravings. They've got a lot of cravings going on

to be reckless and fucking devious and to go against the things that we say that we want to do versus some of the, or the things that we kind of like feel like we need to do to build character, to be stronger,

to be a better person, to show up better for people. But then there's like a lot of stuff that we want to do that creeps in there, eating bad food, sexual desires and so forth. But if you exhaust yourself every day and you're spent, you kind of blew your wad already. And not that you still won't be interested in those things it's just uh maybe you're not uh i don't know searching around for them quite as much it's not as overpowering yeah i can feel overpowering good word truly i love that no i think i think you're spot on i think you're spot on with that when you're um when you have been improving with

with your times and stuff i mean when you're finishing these races like a sub three minute or sub three hour uh marathons uh what's been your what's been your improvement and when you finish are you kind of like are you kind of dying when you finish or like are you just you know getting across the finish line like breathing really hard or because the intensity of a marathon or half marathon for a lot of people, uh, that aren't moving really fast, the intensity is kind of low,

but does it look different because you're kind of, you're actually like racing? Yeah. I think in Houston, it was one of the first times where I was like exhausted. Just like my body had just like, I think the humidity and the heat really played a part. It was the first time in a race where my last two miles weren't the fastest splits. Most marathons I've done, I have enough juice in the tank to grind out that last mile to really push it.

And even if it's a 10-second, 15-second faster split, that's something. And even if it's like a 10 second, 15 second faster split, like that's something that if you have enough energy to run your last, your 26th mile faster than your first, like that's impressive, you know? And this was the first time where I felt like if I try to use more energy, if I try to use more power through the ground by pushing off the ground, that I was going to catch a cramp. And I think the heat, how much I was sweating through miles 13 through 22, it's just like I kind of lost some of my extra juice at the end. And it was the first time where, like, even though Houston is relatively a flat course, they actually had some rolling hills in the back 10K. Where it's just like it's depleting when you're, like, facing a hill. And this is, like, the mixture of the hydration. But it's depleting when you're facing a hill and you're trying to like go up and like really conserve some energy so i think this race and if you look right here this is right around mile 21 22 like even my form it starts to get broken down right here and you can just tell

that i'm like and obviously i'm going through a water station but i'm not as efficient as i was even in the first clip of this exact video and you can just like look at the energy like i just i look like i'm smoother right here in this gate pattern and this is at mile like three to four so obviously in a marathon it's a very long race yeah yeah and this this one specifically i was much slower at the very end but i'm not out of breath panting it's more just the legs are just torched yeah so i wasn't coming in like it was more just like the legs felt depleted. Like they didn't have that much juice left. What's been your improvement from marathon one versus marathon four?

Marathon one on my 26th birthday in 2021 was a 355 marathon. This was with no coach. I was training during COVID just out of my mom's place, doing research on Google. Then from 355, I did a 100 mile race. Then I did the 100 miler. So yeah, that's like obviously a complete different training grounds. But that mental fortitude of like what I gained mentally

by completing that 100 miler, it then allowed me to get back into marathon training. I then ran the Philly Marathon in 2022. And I ran a 308 so i was super close like huge on yeah on and that was like not even with the coach i didn't get a coach until i hit sub three four or five months ago so so you hit sub three without a coach no no i didn't i didn't hit i was close though so that was a 308 in philly and then four months later i ran in austin and i ran a 305 all right so shaved a little bit off again.

And it wasn't until I worked with Jeff Cunningham, who's Nick Bear's coach. Then I got to a 257. And that was with dedicated marathon training and a proper build, a 16 week build. And then I hit 257 in August of 2022. So that was my fastest marathon to date. And then I did New York City for fun. And then I just recently did Houston, which was 259 or technically not.

And how did you learn about how to run when you didn't have a coach? Because those are impressive times anyway. So you must've known something. Yeah, I mean, I'm just, I'm a big practitioner. And I think that's where a lot of people kind of misstep when they start to educate themselves on certain stuff. I mean, I'm just, I'm a big practitioner. And I think that's where a lot of people kind of misstep when they start to educate themselves on certain stuff. It's easy to listen to a podcast like this

or read a book, right? From that point, you need to take some action and you need to start executing on something. Whether it's right or wrong, you got to do something though, right? And Mark, that's been my journey. Like I would listen to Nick Bear or hear David Goggins story

or see how Jesse Itzer finished a 50, 100 mile race. And I'd be thinking to myself like, what separates these people apart? It's not much. It's just the discipline of doing the work every day and showing up, right? So I just kept showing up. Like, and that's been my journey of life.

It's just showing up every day and trying to get a little bit better, get a little bit smarter to then use the knowledge and put it into practice. And from there, the 309 to 308, I was battling injuries still through that time, trying to figure out my system and my body. So I think that's been the biggest thing is just being a practitioner, is doing the education, doing the homework, but then applying that homework, right?

I was telling you, I sucked at school. I cheated on everything. I was the worst student. And being Asian, that's not the best thing to tell your mother. And it's just like school though, right? Like you get taught something and then you need to go apply that knowledge, right? I never did that through school really. So then when I applied it into football or different activities I had really big passions into,

it then started to come into fruition. I was like, damn, I put all that time into football and I got a college scholarship. That's an awesome thing. Imagine you do that in anything in business and relationships in life, like you'll get that return. It's just a matter of patience. Were your parents supportive of, uh, you being somebody that had dreams of doing things in football and these other kinds of hopes and dreams, or did they want to see you go, uh, more of like a traditional route? Yeah. Traditional route. I i mean my parents were split when i was super young so like i've always grown up with my mom and like my dad's been in my

life but like not enough to like give me the say to be like you shouldn't do this or do that right my mom i think when she saw me earn a college scholarship she realized like oh shoot matt's not going to go down their typical path of like being really good at school and earning a, um, uh, educational scholarship and X, Y, and Z, right? Like I had no aspiration to be a doctor or lawyer or she never forced that on me and my brother. So I got super fortunate with the way I grew up. My mom instilled a ton of self-esteem in my mind where I just became confident in who I am as a person and utilizing my strengths. Like she saw me do well in football. She always understood that that was going to be the driving force to also show up in school.

Maybe not be a straight A student, but just show up enough, get A's and B's, get some C's and try not to fail out in any classes. But then as I got into the creator space and just kind of being an entrepreneur and just building my own business, I think my mom, she's very Americanized, right? She's worked in a bunch of Fortune 500 companies. So she understands that working up the corporate ladder is also not as sexy as it sounds. Being a C-suite in a big company,

yes, you get a fat paycheck on a yearly salary, but your time is so restricted. You have no freedom. So my mom instilled me early. She's like, look at all these entrepreneurs, Mark Cuban, Gary Vee, all these guys, like really what they have, they have money and they have cars and they have houses, but they have freedom, right? Freedom is the game that people want. Just like how time is the one thing

that doesn't stop, right? But most people want freedom in life. They think it comes in a monetary form and it definitely helps to have money. But freedom itself is creating a lifestyle where you can design your own, design how it looks for you. Yeah yeah money will buy you a lot of time it does that's a fact what's the business that you're that you're in what are you uh you're doing you're helping people with like branding marketing and things like that yes i mean basically what i've been able to develop with my own personal brand when it came through a lot of it through social media right just understanding where attention is understanding how you can as a business implement content into your guys's like marketing strategy so we work with a lot of brands in the health and wellness space like trying to figure out all right well if they're doing really well on on one platform how come

they're not doing so well on a different one and just kind of coming up with different creative strategies where it's implementing very similar content, but making it contextual to the platform because you're understanding who's on that platform, right? Like people on TikTok are consuming content differently than they do on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, or on YouTube. And it's understanding that, but for someone that's just operating a business, they're not in the weeds of social, right? So I basically just took the trade and the skill sets of building it for myself and helping other brands and entrepreneurs do the same for them. It's a very rewarding space because I'm confident in talking about it because I've done it myself.

And for me, it's just very tried and true. Most people want the results so fast, just like getting a six pack or growing your glutes. Like everyone wants like 30 day, 60 day program. And are you sure you're going to guarantee growth in 90 days? And honestly, most times I say, I'm not sure, actually. It depends on how good you are at making content and how contextual you can actually be, because there's a level of skill when it comes to content creating, just like any professional sport. I'm a firm believer that content creating or creating in general is almost becoming like the new athlete. You need to have a mindset to be

this person. And it's just like any athlete, any successful athlete. Yeah. Takes a lot of time. It does. In terms of learning this stuff, cause you've created a business around it. Did, did you fit it? Did school help you with this? Or like, did it help propel you towards this? For sure. I mean, I, so I studied marketing and management in, in, in school. So business was, I hadn't understand that. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but I wanted to study business and just kind of figure it out from there. Right. Most people that get into business typically just get like an, uh, a BM degree or whatever it is, something communications, like something basic. And you kind of figure it out as you go. Um, I took a couple of social media classes and things

of that sort, but the stuff that, that professors were teaching were like, it was outdated. Like they were talking about email campaigns and which is still great, and TV ads and billboards. And I'm like, that's old school. So after I got out of school, I started consuming a ton of Gary Vee. And Gary Vee's been a big psychology and mindset shift in addition to the marketing. His tactics are tried and true. So I consumed a shit ton of his content, which then helped me build my business for myself, in addition to helping other people kind of figure out how they can do it for them.

What do you think are some of the differences between some of these social media platforms, like say the difference between Instagram versus TikTok? Like why might something, you know, work and explode and do really well on Instagram and then not do well on TikTok? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is the person that's consuming it, right? You know, when TikTok first came out, it was a lot younger. It steered younger where everyone was dancing and, and doing those little trends and things of that sort, which was super cool and fun. It draws a lot of eyes, right? Because it's entertaining. I think someone on, on, on Instagram or on LinkedIn, they're in a different mode of consumption. When you go on LinkedIn, you're thinking more business, like, right? Like, oh, I need to connect with someone or I want to

get taught something or educational, whatever it is, versus on Instagram, you just want to like, you want to release some time, right? Like you just like, you're just like kind of in dead zone. You're watching TV maybe. And you're just like, all right, let me, let's see what's happening on Instagram. So I think the mode of communication on every platform is a little bit different and how you actually can resonate with your platform is a little bit different and how you actually can resonate with your audience is a little different and doing small things where I think on TikTok right now doing more authentic like just camera to face posts where you're just being very authentic and being you is a better formula than doing that on Instagram where on

Instagram you can make you know use using a camera or using higher quality equipment to make it look super cinematic and things of that sort. So I think people on TikTok are more consumed into the person. Right. Who are you as a human? And that's why a lot of people, they just say, oh, they'll do a girls do get ready with me. And they'll go on their spiel of like what they got for the rest of the day or guys will be like, yo, let's let's do a mic'd up lift session. Yeah. And people like that content because it's personal. Right. It's kind of like a it's kind of like why YouTube does well. YouTube long form content is as personal as you're going to get with someone, right?

Because they're not editing as much, not cutting as many clips, but Mark could be exactly who he is everyday life. And those TikTok videos are very similar to that, but in one minute to two minutes. So I think each platform just has a different way that people consume on it. So making content specific to it is important. Now, this is something if, cause like tracking how you've grown and how you've grown on these different platforms, cause you're very big on all platforms, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. Where would you suggest somebody start? Let's say that there's something that they want to put out into the world and they want to show people, right? If they want to take advantage of all those platforms, where should they start and then continue from there?

Or does it depend on what they want to do? I think it depends, well, one, on what they want to do. If they want to start long-form content, then getting on YouTube is just a good strategy. If they're willing to go short-form, then I would say the good thing right now, and it kind of debates the point I just said, the good thing right now and it kind of like it it kind of debates the point i just said but because every platform is trying to copy tiktok short form content just short form content itself is a good driving force to be on every single platform so then i would just tell someone get a tiktok platform make your video there use that same video and repost it on youtube shorts repost it on instagram and on facebook? So then you have the same video across

four platforms getting seen by four different demographics. That would be the best like basic strategy. Now, if someone was like, all right, well, Matt, I'm better in front of the camera. I want to do a podcast. Well, then do a podcast long form, get someone like Andrew on your team where they can cut it up, splice it up and and make reels out of that content, but you're driving views to the full episode, right? So it just depends on the strategy. But at the bare bones level, someone, if I told them nothing and didn't know what niche they're in or what they're trying to do, I would say get on short form because that's where the attention is, right?

Social is just about attention. What platforms give you the best attention? Right now, YouTube Shorts is probably the best out of all the short-form platforms to get you that organic reach. So I'm, just like Gary says all the time, he's after attention. And right now it's on social media,

and in 10 years it might not be there anymore. So then you have to pivot onto the next thing, and most people aren't, they get stuck in what got them there. And that's where they struggle where you have to just be able to adapt on the fly as it comes yeah yeah gary always says uh you got to be where the people are and they're on social media um would you say that like somebody needs a higher end camera because sometimes like in memory like sometimes in the past when we've

tried to do stuff in the gym we do like the high-end lights the high-end cameras and like this is going to be dope and then it kind of flops and then somebody will be on you know selfie cam and it's like how did that get millions and then this high production thing that we obviously put a lot of time into just completely flops and i know i just kind of answered the question but what i'm getting at is like what what are some of the things that people need in the beginning all you need is a smartphone a lot of the reason that I've made most of my content right off the iPhone with no tripods, with nothing else, is I want to just show people that anyone can do this.

Right, if you do this long enough, if you, just like anything in the gym, just like running, if you do content enough and you practice that talking in front of the camera, which is not like a normal thing. I don't think any human was designed to be so comfortable to talk in front of the camera, right? But what happens after you build in reps, right? You do enough

push-ups, you get a bigger chest, stronger triceps. You make enough videos in front of the camera, you'll get better. So I think, Andrew, to answer your question, like, instead of using the excuse of, I don't have a DSLR, I don't have a microphone, I don't have this, I don't have that, start with this device that's a $1,200 device that is

literally as powerful as presidents from the 80s that they ran the country with right if you think about that concept these every single human has a smartphone start here as you build traction as you build that muscle then upgrade to the entire studio setup but at first this is the barrier of entry there's no friction here edit off your phone edit off the TikTok app. Everything will be done with this phone. Do you have any apps that you suggest for editing stuff? I would get CapCut or InShot.

And those are two very basic ones. I think there's free versions of both. And I think if you buy the pro version, it might be 20 to 30 bucks for the year. And just get the pro version so you don't have to see the ads and shit. That's your $20 investment yourself. Because the platforms are free. Get the editing app. Or just edit right in Tik TOK.

Cause I make a lot of my videos like that. How do you turn, uh, attention into money? A couple ways, right? You can, how I've done it is,

well, the main way I do it is through brand partnerships, right? And I'm lucky. So that for us would be like sponsored ads for the podcast, right? Exactly. Right. Where someone's like a brand, a brand is going to say, Hey Matt, I want you to make this type of video for me, right? Talking about this running shoe. Right. And then they'll compensate you for that video. Exactly. Now, when you're starting out, you're probably going to get a lot more, Hey, do this one for free in

exchange for apparel, in exchange for shoes, whatever it is, like an in-kind. And that's a great way to build a relationship with a brand or a business. From there, if you do good work and the video gets good traction, then you have the leverage. Then you need to now understand how do you negotiate for yourself? Like what's the standard rate, right? And on that process, like I had no idea. It's like consulting. You're just like, oh shit, let me see what Mark will do. $1,000. And then you say, no idea it's like consulting you're just like oh shit let me see what mark will do thousand dollars and then you say and then mark's like that's way too much and you're like shit i should have said seven every single human has that feeling of like i left some at the table but when someone says yes you're like that's it yeah i guess you said something else

so it's it's it's one of those things where one the brand partnerships is one thing if you don't want to do that you can push out an ebook you can push out a course you can create a product um you can create apparel right so there's so many different ways to make money as an entrepreneur or business stop you for a second do people like do people need to maybe get over their anxiety about whether they're going to be seen as someone who's like shilling stuff? It's the sooner you can do that, the more scalable you can create your business. Right. I think even for me, I struggle with that because I always had this Gary V mentality of jab,

jab, jab, right hook, give, give, give, ask. Right. But when you ask someone, you just can't expect anything in return. Right. If you have a $25 product or a hundred dollar product, if you know that it's valuable, you're not going to be so upset to sell it, to pitch it. Right. And if you've given enough value, it's not, you're not like, you're not like a, it's not like you're just hitting someone in the face without giving them a warning, right? Like you've given them some stuff and now they're giving you some feedback back. So I think even for me, it took a while for me to actually get over that hump as well. I didn't push my first product until two and a half years of making content for free. So for me, it was a struggle personally because I was like, I don't want to monetize until I have to. Because if I was able to make enough money through brand deals, and at that time, Mark, I was just personal training.

I made my money as a trainer. And then the content was the side hustle because I knew building platform or building content online is a sustainable business because it'll live there forever. But me spending one hour of my time with each of these clients, my time is always getting exchanged for money. And at some point, we only have 24 hours in a day.

If I'm giving it up to everyone else, then I'm not going to have any for myself. So to answer your question, figure out how you want to monetize, right? And it could be in many different ways. You can just put out content. That could be your monetization source, right? At that point, it'll lead to certain things,

whether it is an ebook or a course or brand deals or whatever it is. But there's so many ways to make money nowadays. You got to get creative enough and have enough curiosity to go chase that stuff and just go seek it because it's all online but I will add on to that too like if you're someone who's trying to build something and maybe you do want to work with companies work with companies whose products and services or whatever it is that you know is actually legit because there's a lot of companies

that will give people money to say hey I like this but those products are shit yeah one of the reasons why I think we've been able to do pretty well, I'm totally open saying this, is because the stuff we use has actually improved our lives. And the people, whenever we show it to people, it improves their lives. So we have trust because we're continuing to give people things that's actually going to push them forward. So make sure that whatever it is that you're going to be talking about is truly going to be something that is going to help the person that you're trying to help, not just get money. Speaking of, do you have an eight-sleep mattress?

This is great. He's told me about the eight-sleep mattress. I don't, and I'm actually very intrigued about it because – We'll get you one. Yeah, I would love to test that out. I would love to get that. We'll get you one. Yeah, I would love to test that out.

I would love to get that. I mean, we love to share the stuff that we've had success with. And when we have other people on the show, they'll report back to us and be like, man, that's really sick. It really helped a lot. So I think you'd find it beneficial. If you're someone starting out,

look around at your house. Start there. Because someone's going to be like, but oh, I don't have a following. Well, okay, you don't. Well, start exactly with the objects and items that you already purchased because you're purchasing it for a reason.

Whether it's good or not, you clearly have some affiliation to the brand, right? So if you're eating Magic Spoon because you know that regular cereal sucks, make some content around eating that cereal and why you eat that cereal, right? So a lot of times the creative genius is happening with the stuff that's in your home.

Start there. If you really are struggling to get some ideas around, my god i don't know who to reach out to or you know nike's too big or under armor is too big well okay if you use 10 000 or gymshark or any of these other brands will use other brands that you're already buying as a consumer and let that be your truth that's storytelling right and then utilize that and as your content in that sense like this thing i actually bought this thing they don't work with us and they but it's a really good fucking product so if they did that'd be cool but like seriously if there are things that you use right make something from it there's also uh the value of finding things that are maybe uh like a little bit niche you know like

toe spreaders if you're a runner, uh, you know, you're whatever shoe company you're with or whatever shoe deals you might have. Uh, they're not going to be pissed at the toe spreader company because they don't overlap. Uh, hostage tape would be something, uh, as well where it's like, well, not a lot of people make that product. So it's like a niche thing that I can fill a particular category with. And what some people, you know, they worry about like being represented or representing too many different things. But I think we have a tendency to really overthink these things. And, again, it's going to be – first of all, you should stay out of your comment section probably.

Because like what is it that you're searching for when you're looking at your comments? Because like what is it that you're searching for when you're looking at your comments? But secondly, people don't really think that much about the different things that you're representing. And what's wrong with representing 10 different companies? What's wrong with – there's nothing wrong with it at all. It's good. Yeah. You're monetizing something that you believe in. You're like these things are things that are really helpful and useful to me.

I think you might find the same. 100%. And I think when it's authentic, you don't feel so shitty about it. If you're actually using, I actually drink super coffee. Before I worked with the Seco Bros, I was drinking their stuff, right? And I think the same thing goes with the supplement company I work with, with Promix. Before Dev asked me to be an athlete, I was a consumer. And then from that consumption I went to an ambassador and then I killed the ambassador program and they brought me on as an athlete

right I think for so many people in this space if you're getting into it don't just chase after money because at some point you're always going to be a victim to it right chase after

like work with the brands or build your own brand but if you aren't going to build your own brand work with brands that you actually trust and use because I guarantee you that the returns will happen what about um like maybe being on the hook for something like if you uh i'll just use a nike or something you're like i promise i'm gonna post on social media or something and they're just like okay but we need like i don't know like i guess the question is like how much is too much

to give in order to just receive like let's say product because i see that like i get hit up all the time where it's like like oh that'd be kind of cool to get whatever that is like but i don't want to post about it because i don't want to be on the hook for something yeah i think i think it's a personal decision that you have to make and like understand where you're at in in your level of content right where it's like are you pushing out so much content where it's just another video that you can just add into your queue? If that's the case, then I would just say do it.

But if they're bugging you because you feel uncomfortable with the script that they're giving you, you feel uncomfortable with what they want you to say and all those things, then that's a little bit different because if it's not authentic to your voice and to your language

and to how you actually communicate your content, then I think it's never good to do that, right? But if it falls into your actual communication style, like a lot of the brands I work with never dictate the things I say. Will they have some small tweaks here and there? Of course, but they're never like, oh my God, Matt, you need to say this thing,

this line, this sentence, right? Because people feel that. People know when they're getting sold, right? So I think for anyone listening, I think be smart with the brain itself. If they're asking you to do hoops and ladders and do a bunch of crazy shit, then I just I would be up front and be like, hey, I'm not comfortable

talking to my community in that fashion. I would rather do it in my way or let's just not do this. McDonald's. The breakfast of champions. I've been eating McDonald's since I was six years old. It's helped me get big and strong. Go to your local Mickey D's today. How many sausage

breakfast sandwiches have you eaten? Six to seven every single morning, Mark. Wow. Yeah. That's about 42 a week. That's how people can look like you. That's how you can look exactly like me. Six pack abs and a smile worthy of McDonald's. Never mind.

If they didn't bring on Ocho Single, I don't think they're going to look for anyone. At this point, they've killed the game without anyone. That's true. That's true. Very true. Oh, man. That's a really good point. What shoes should people get?

People are asking about shoes. People are obsessed about shoes. What do we got going on with shoes? This isn't my thing with shoes. It's just like a diet, right? Like, you know, there's no one size fits all approach, but it works for you. It might not work for me. So I think what I would tell someone is go to your local running shoe store, whether it's a fleet feet, whether it's a road runner sports or, you know, local boutique store. Typically they have someone that's experienced enough to look at your running gate, your walking gate,, or they have a 3D scanner which is going to scan your foot and analyze where do you have pressure.

Are you a low arch, high arch? Do you pronate? Do you supinate? Is your foot even the same size? There's so many dimensions of our foot that we don't actually understand as humans because how many people really care about it, right? They just say, oh, I've been an 11 my whole life. I'm going to squish my foot into an 11. I thought the same thing.

My left foot is an 11.5. My right foot's an 11. I thought the same thing. My left foot is an 11 and a half. My right foot's an 11. So now all my shoes are 11 and a half. So I think even at that point, go in, get analyzed for your foot. If you don't want to do that, then at least have an understanding or have someone look at how you walk slash run, right?

Because if you are super pronating or supinating, you're going to want a stability shoe. If you're neutral, then you can probably just get a neutral shoe, something that has mid-level cushion, something that can just get you to point A to point B. And then the next thing is like, all right, well, how serious are you taking it? Like how much are you going to run? Like I wouldn't suggest someone to go out and get a carbon fiber shoe if they're just going to run a couple of days a week. Just get a daily road training shoe, right? So what does, what's the difference between like a road training shoe,

like you're mentioning and a carbon fiber shoe, like the super shoe that you guys use, the Nike Airfly? It's the difference is one is designed for performance and the other is designed for durability, right? So a performance shoe, the super shoe, the Alpha Fly, it's designed to have less wear and tear. The shoe gets used up more. You can't get as many miles in that shoe. So part of the reason of using it for races

is you want to maximize the cushion in that shoe. The carbon fiber plate gets worn down after X amount of miles, just like any tire, just like any shoe. It has like a snap in it. Exactly. So once that plate starts to bend more, because when you first get the shoe, no matter how strong you are, it's pretty hard to break that plate. And that might be a good video, actually, if you could break a carbon fiber shoe. But those shoes are designed for when you're really trying to seek performance or go really fast. So I would use those shoes for races or long runs

that you're simulating marathon paces because that's as close as you're going to get to simulating the race. A daily training shoe, which is pretty much all the other shoes on the market, are utilized for when you're going on day-to-day miles, when you're going on that track workout, when you're going in the trail, whatever it is. Having different shoes is just like having different tires for your cars, right? If you're in the winter, you're going to want snow tires, right? And then that's kind of like your performance shoe. And if you are in the trail, in the mountain, on a Jeep, you're going to want all-weather purpose

tiles, whatever it is. And if you're in a sports car, that might actually be more like the performance shoe. A sports car is going to be super light. It's going to get you to point A to point B. If you're in a Ferrari, that's like the Alphafly. Yeah. Right? And every shoe is designed just like cars or just like car tires in that sense. So there's a purpose for it.

And that's why I always tell people, I'm like, dude, get out of your carbon fiber shoes if you're going to the mall, if you're going to Trader Joe's, if you're walking around the office, because why do you need max cushion and a carbon fiber plate where your foot doesn't feel the floor anymore? So that's kind of my whole thing with the running shoe stuff, with the carbon fiber shoes.

Yeah. What's with all these things, the tracking everything? You got two watches and you have an Aura ring on too, I think, right? You have two watches? I do. I have two Coros watches right now

and part of this is, I actually, they just sent me this one. He's comparing them to each other. I'm comparing the data, and a lot of it is because the GPS signaling. Oh, you are comparing them. I thought he was joking. So the Pace 2 is kind of like the beginner watch. This is the watch that I would recommend for most beginners.

It's a low barrier of entry. It's $200. What's the brand? Coros. Never heard of it. C-O-R-O-S? Yeah, C-O-R-O-S. But nowadays, Mark, all these wearables, they give you a lot of the same data, right? So it's kind of figuring out which one you like more, which is the best bang for your buck. Coros is a brand that I've gotten to hopefully wear and talk to doing some work with them as well.

But it's a brand that I've just actually started to convert and like more. I've wore garments in the past when I did ultra marathons. Um, but this Coros Apex 2 can pretty much do exactly what my garment did. Like literally it lasts like 30, it can last up to 20 days, I think. Um, I would say if you're a new run, a new runner, you might not want your watch to do a crazy amount of stuff. You might want it just to like kind of bare minimum. Yeah.

Your heart rate and give you, uh, your, um, your pace. I agree. You might want it just to like kind of. The bare minimum. Yeah, your heart rate and give you your pace. Yeah. Like that's about it. An Apple watch can do that. You know, the pace too can do that. I wouldn't spend more than 200 bucks on a watch if you're just getting started, right? The Aura ring itself,

I just have a friend who's an ultra guy who works with Aura was like, dude, I'd love for you to just test it out. I'm like, all right, word. Send it over. And I've just been wearing it for the past week. I actually don't really wear rings, so it's kind of strange for me to have this on. Question.

Have you noticed that your Oura ring has a different step count than maybe your Coros watch? Because I noticed the step counting is different on this. It says I get more steps with this versus my Apple watch. I actually haven't compared. So I'm going to look at that, actually, as I get to the airport. I'm going to be like, hold on. Let me just see how many they tracked. But I was telling you, when we're in the gym, it is kind of annoying to hold weights with this.

That is a little bit annoying for me. I'm still getting used to it. But I think wearables are, you know, it's a good piece to have, but it's not a game changer. I mean, I have some friends that don't wear anything and they just go off feeling. And that's an amazing thing too right where you get detached from these numbers and metrics and heart rate and all this shit where shoot the indigenous people didn't have shit they got the job done you know in sandals and flip slippers right so it's one of those things where this stuff is awesome but now so many people get so fed up into the data and they're just like consumed in it you know do you look at the sleep

data and stuff like that oh for sure with that for sure i mean you sleep pretty well or i sleep pretty damn well i think you know a couple months ago i was struggling a little bit more i was getting like you know 6 6 30 you know just kind of like that would be my like that would be like kind of like my peak and even though on the whoop i was wearing the whoop at the time it would tell me i'm in the green because like that was like kind of my cycle of like i hit right out of ram and then woke up and like it still showed that i had good recovery but i think as i've kind of gotten deeper into some of my marathon training i just i know that sleep and nutrition is going to be two of the things that you can control and they're easy wins to get on the table so i just wanted to get into sleeping

more so even the aura and both of these coros watches, I wear them when I sleep. They track my sleep. If you're out there, if you have one of these watches, you don't necessarily need an Aura or a Whoop. You can just wear the watch, and it tracks pretty much everything. It doesn't give you as much detail as the Whoop app or the Aura app,

but it's enough data to give you a baseline of how much deep sleep or REM or if you're awake up at night, X, Y, and Z. It's good information. Yeah. And you're about to sleep on a smart mattress. Exactly. Even freaking better.

I love that. Andrew, take us on out of here, buddy. Sure thing. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. Please drop those comments down below. Let us know what you guys think about today's conversation. For everything podcast related, nailed it.

Good shot. Powerproject.live. Links in the description description podcast show notes all the good stuff follow the podcast at mb power project on instagram tiktok and twitter my instagram tiktok and twitter is at i am andrew z in c where you at discords down below free matt choy where can people find you you guys can find me on Instagram and TikTok, MattChoi6. And then on YouTube as well, just Matthew Choi.

Don't forget your workouts are only as good as your recovery. So implement a lot of what Matt was sharing here today. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Peace. Bye. You had to change your name to the Bib Mule.

I told my brother, I was like, we should make a whole other account. Yeah.