Mark Bell's Power Project - Sam Okunola - World Champion Bodybuilder Explains Balancing Running With Lifting || MBPP Ep. 833

Starting point is 00:00:00 Power Project family, hope you're having a good day. Now, we've partnered with Eight Sleep Mattresses because it's made a big difference for our recovery and everything that we do. Me personally, I sleep really hot, so I used to wake up in a puddle of sweat. But now, since the mattress changes its temperature through the night, I sleep like a baby. Andrew, how can they learn more? Yes, you guys got to head over to eightsleep.com slash powerproject. And when you guys go there,'ll automatically receive 150 off of your order links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes run that run that again

Starting point is 00:00:29 all right i'll run it for you right here bane bane oh why does morgan freeman have his hand over his face that's so weird tom hardy's bane was his bane that was good that's why morgan freeman was bane oh man it's the worst when you go to do impersonation or you go to do an accent but then the accent turns into something else. Trying to be Irish, then you turn Jamaican. It turns into a fucking mess. I tell her I would pay a lot of money

Starting point is 00:01:12 to do that, and I don't. You've got to be a professional. It just takes a little bit of practice. A little bit of practice. We're going to do some mind bullet? Yeah, crack that open. You can just do the whole thing? Yeah, crack that open. Yeah. All right. Breaking Sam's Mind Bullet cherry. Sam's first time.

Starting point is 00:01:27 You can just do the whole thing, too, if you want to. You'll feel it. I'd say go with half. I'd say go half because it's down the hatch reaction. Always tastes great going down. I'll be the one who has my well-being. Yeah, I'll be the, what is it called? The creative police?

Starting point is 00:01:43 No, no, no. The shaman? Commentator? Yeah, I'll be the shaman is it called? The police? No, no, no. The shaman? Commentator? Yeah, I'll be the shaman. That's good stuff. God damn, I got to find that later. That's all right. It was such a good impersonation.

Starting point is 00:01:56 Andy Dufresne. Who's Andy Dufresne? That's an amazing movie. Are you serious? Yeah. Shawshank Redemption. Shawshank Redemptionawshank redemption oh okay yeah i have seen it how old are you sam i am old fossil oh no you're not now you're like i'll be 39 in december wow yeah okay how would it get younger like the moisturizers doesn't crack yeah you use you

Starting point is 00:02:22 use moisturizer here we go on these flash i um I did put moisturizer on my hands before I got in here because that's your go-to before a podcast. Absolutely. I'll get there eventually. Well, and you knew you were going to run into another black guy. You didn't want him talking shit about you. Yeah. Dude. I would have called you out so fast, bro.

Starting point is 00:02:40 That was a guy literally that mind fucked me. Anytime I want to post a video, I know I'm posting on Instagram. I'll check my fucking ankles. fast bro that was a guy literally that mind fucked me anytime I wanna like post a video I know I'm posting on Instagram I'll check my fucking ankles I check my ankles

Starting point is 00:02:50 just to make sure my shit is not ashy I'm like yo bro you are making Vaseline a lot of money right now that's so funny you're like about to

Starting point is 00:02:59 report something and you're like ankles man ashy I know I can't remember his name right now but I mean

Starting point is 00:03:05 he's like literally like that shit's in your backpack now I can't I got like I got like three like

Starting point is 00:03:12 aquaphor like tubes in my in my backpack same dude same yeah I mean I'm

Starting point is 00:03:18 so did you look at the guy's page and he's black all right okay I mean I was gonna say like you can't be white right

Starting point is 00:03:26 because y'all don't notice no i don't think that's what i'm about to say that's what i'm about to say because i've used the term ashy before i'm like what do you mean i'm like you know ashy and i have to use the reference for ashy larry or tyrone Biggum Oh Yeah Ashy you know Like You know You don't get dry skin No Like no

Starting point is 00:03:47 Okay you don't Oh okay So I had to explain What lotion was To this motherfucker A few years ago Same here yeah Black don't cry

Starting point is 00:03:54 Because you're moisturized Yes Ideally cocoa butter Is good It's good for you It's too thick for me Summertime maybe not so Not so much

Starting point is 00:04:02 You get a little Speaking of thick You were admiring his thickness I think when you walked in, weren't you? I mean. You were like, yo. It's kind of hard to miss. I mean, it's like a shadow walking. It's like, ooh.

Starting point is 00:04:13 It's like you got dark in there real quick. He gained like 15 pounds from drinking orange juice the last couple of days. Dude, I was in a bowel, man. I mean, you got to be. You got to be. Just just drop and turn and burn them dog dog no no what happened was like okay so i don't drink juice we always talk about liquid calories where we're like we don't fuck with liquid calories because it's just extra calories you know what i mean so i i usually drink diet sodas or sparkling waters blah blah but

Starting point is 00:04:41 recently like two weeks ago i saw saw Simply Lemonade on DoorDash and I was like, I want some of that. So I got it. I was like, this is really good. It was on DoorDash? Makes it worse. It is. So the natural progression is

Starting point is 00:04:58 I just started drinking a little bit. Then I ordered like four bottles that went out in two days. And then a few days later, I was 258 pounds so wait so it's not like yo bro i'm trying to get drag what's your liquid calories okay i'm gonna drink a lot it's just like oh this is good it started off let me have a glass of juice with my dinner then it turned into i'm having a whole thing of juice this is why we tell you guys no

Starting point is 00:05:20 liquid calories it adds up too quickly it's 245 it's funny it's funny you mentioned that because i'm i'm like i cannot tell you the last time i actually drank like i am like so jaded when i see like juice i'm like a lot of calories yeah i am like you got the sugar-free version of that like that's what i want it gives you like anxiety right you're like i'm like should i should i feel this way like i do feel this way like for instance um uh i think correct me if i'm wrong i think it's it's the it's the it's not occupational hazard so to speak but once you're like in a fitness space obviously your mindset is like you know what's on me what kind of what kind of impact does this food have on my body order uh grocery

Starting point is 00:06:02 delivery and it came back i ordered like 96 full ground beef and they came in it's like 80-20 I'm like 80-20 like who eats that if you go to a restaurant if you go to a restaurant and get your burgers

Starting point is 00:06:13 chances are it's 80-20 you know the fattier that's why they want you coming back but if I'm cooking like 80-20

Starting point is 00:06:21 I'm like who does that like you cook it like you have to drain the fat off and I'm like no like what are you doing and I put a pull up I'm like who does that like you you you cook it like you have to drain the fat off and like no like what are you doing and i just i put a pull i'm like is it me or like i was like i mean am i the only one that does this because i'm like no dog i i totally get what you're saying juice is a totally different thing though because like i think i think that little experiment just gave me i think i'm just gonna clip that and it's like, you know, juice. Oh, fuck.

Starting point is 00:06:45 Got him. But no, it really just shows. You finally admit. How easy. Sure, quote unquote. Yeah, yeah. It is really easy, though, to overconsume. So don't drink juice.

Starting point is 00:06:58 How many milliliters did you take? Son of a. How many CCs of Simply Lemonade was it wasn't yeah i'm moving through like we shouldn't a lot though like i mean i can only imagine you know no it wasn't we do need to investigate it's like somebody's doing something i probably wish i could i mean i can do you know about the fish tell me more you know about the fish that he eats out of his trunk why is this turning into let's roast and see my podcast why is it turning so let's bring out every skeleton in his closet right what the fuck let's get back to the topic of discussion i'm trying to help him so he can get bigger

Starting point is 00:07:33 learn some of your secrets you don't need to get bigger there's only one person at this table who's had a world championship in bodybuilding and it's not me so i think i think i heard crickets that's you yeah oh me yeah you guys welcome to the show but you turned your back on bodybuilding you're off running and being all weird that word usage i didn't turn my back on oh you did man you did it's been nasty it's just it's been tough for a lot of people out there you're creating a tabloid now every saturn turns his back on body building now he's gonna run the balance off whatever it is uh no i don't i i still i still train i like to pick everything i mean heavy things i'm putting down you know i just like to

Starting point is 00:08:21 move you're doing a lot of different shit you're doing kettlebells and you're doing mobility stuff. Shout out to the homie. Every damn every goddamn drink. I mean, massive dude moving. Yeah, you know, it's fun. It's challenging, but in a fun way. I didn't turn my back on bodybuilding.

Starting point is 00:08:39 I just look, it just doesn't serve me as much. Yeah, you explored a lot in bodybuilding. Now you're trying some different stuff. Yeah, it just doesn't serve me. Yeah, you explored a lot in bodybuilding. Now you're trying some different stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's something I stumble on and I'm doing and I'm finding a joy in just finding a lot of things I'm weak at. How has the change, how has your fans, how have they received it?

Starting point is 00:09:03 Have people been pretty positive? Yes, yes. I mean, I get a lot of DMs like, hey, you know, I really love the way you like training now, the way you're moving and things like that. You know, I think if I do a deep dive into the people that are making those comments, they're probably a lot older or they've been training for a while,

Starting point is 00:09:20 and they probably just have that little slight inclination like, hmm, I'm kind of hurting here or trying to, you know, maybe I should, oh, Sam is doing this. Okay, let me try to see if I can get into that sort of space. But again, it's one of those things like, you know, yes, the question that I would normally get, you can define the age group by the question. The age group of somebody I was going to ask you are, that might be impressed with what you're doing is typically around older. You've been training for a while. You've sustained some injuries. And maybe bodybuilding or strength training doesn't really do it for you,

Starting point is 00:09:50 trying to find other ways to move better because, you know, you're not going to go into the gym and crush 600 pounds on a deadlift or whatever anymore. You're just trying to find new ways to move. And then you've got the younger crowd that's coming in like, is that going to build muscle? Yeah. Are you going to get jacked up?

Starting point is 00:10:04 I'm like, no, I wouldn't say you're you gonna get jacked i'm like no i won't say you're gonna get jacked you gotta mix i think there's a maybe a common misconception misconception out there that you do kettlebell training and you just you know demolish or i mean disregard you know traditional strength training because kettlebells away and yes i've posted things on tiktok it might be clickbait as oh yeah i used to train this way and i'll train this way yeah but i didn't i mean again you can put a lot of context in 16 seconds you can't really explain that to i mean no i mean i used to train this way and now i added so and so i have a dedicated day when i just do quote-unquote functional movement or you know compared to traditional strength i would do it for like four to five days a week. Were you in pain previously? Were your body like banged up a little bit?

Starting point is 00:10:49 I have been in pain all my life. Let me tell you about the pain. Let me tell you about the pain. I mean, the most notable injuries, lower back, you guys have Aaron, Dr. Aaron. That's my guy, which I'm very, very fortunate to like, hey. Oh, yeah, squat university. Your major improvement on your squat. It's amazing.

Starting point is 00:11:11 He's my, luckily, he lives about 20 minutes away from me. Oh, okay. I love the text when I send him like, yo, Aaron, I broke me. So what did you do this time? I broke myself. Come here. Let's fix it. So it's nice to have, I mean, to have someone like that kind of just, you know, look at you and kind of take care of things.

Starting point is 00:11:28 But as far as injuries, low back injuries, specifically on my right side, which stem from having limited external rotation on my right side, on my right hip. If you actually slow my squat down a lot of times, you probably see a slight little dip to the left just because I compensate. So it's an ongoing something I have to pay a lot of attention to before I start in leg movement, like a lot of external rotation movements just to free up that space and then get into the movement. Running, ITB issues that I just sustained like eight weeks ago, much better now. Picking up running again again so working on some new goals for 2023 so yeah did you have a lot of pain when you were like focused on bodybuilding and and if you can can you run us through some of your bodybuilding history so people kind of know because you didn't take bodybuilding lightly it wasn't a hobby per se. No, no, no, no. Yeah, I was, I mean, so brief background.

Starting point is 00:12:27 I was in the military for six years. Got out of the military. The last thing I want to do after the military is run. Literally got my shoes, everything, put in the basement, deep in the ocean somewhere. I'm like, fuck that. Again, if you've been in the military before, you know the military is not about, oh, yeah, you know, let's program your running. This is the mesocycle. We're going to progress into fatigue management.

Starting point is 00:12:50 There's no fatigue management in the military. Just six miles, how fast can we get there? So you do all that. And when I got out, it's like, okay, I don't want to run. I don't want to rock. I don't want to do any of that. And I just casually just, you know what, maybe you start working out again or start focusing more on strength training and of course i made the mistake that a lot of people make muscular

Starting point is 00:13:09 development magazine flex magazine what's jake color doing this week you know rip that up you know grab a note and write that down i'm like okay how much calories jake color eating this because if i eat like jake color i too can look like jake color i was again i was that naive guy and i mean without the perception of like you know there's a special substance involved here that that's gonna that's gonna help you out again that disregard i think definitely helped me out coming out the gate just i'm gonna eat i'm gonna train love training and i live i mean i came from the era of body building where it was a social gathering you know know, and you show up to the gym. Backstory also is like when I left the military, I was 25, 26 at a time, went to college.

Starting point is 00:13:54 And luckily for me, in the college that I went to, I ran into a homie, Ryan Doris. I tell the story of how I met Ryan Doris. I showed up. It was in concert spread by the time. Only looking lean as shit. I'm like, okay, all right. Ryan Doris was like, hey, bro, can you spot me real quick? I'm like, sure.

Starting point is 00:14:13 Like 225 to 275, just ripping that thing out. I mean, Ryan Doris, I mean, short arms. He's jacked. I'm finding the business right now. He looks jacked. So he asked me, he's like, hey, you play ball? I mean, because again, when you see a guy that's jacked in the gym like that, you must be a football player.

Starting point is 00:14:31 Okay, you play ball? He's like, no, I bodybuild, son. A bodybuild? A bodybuild, son. Like literally, he sonned me the first time, the first conversation we had. And I'm like, okay, his legs look jacked. I have small legs. I'm like, okay, his legs look jacked. I have small legs. I'm fairly strong

Starting point is 00:14:47 upper body. I think this can be, you know, skimming something. So that's the first time we met. Like a bromance right off the bat.

Starting point is 00:14:53 It is a bromance. What a love story that was. Ryan Doris was one of my best men in my wedding. Oh, sick. Yeah, all right. That's how it started.

Starting point is 00:15:00 And so luckily for me, I knew what he was doing. Training was fun. Him and a few other groups in college, it's like, you know, five o'clock.

Starting point is 00:15:09 Hit, it's, I mean, it's, we all just lived and having a good time. It was not, oh yeah,

Starting point is 00:15:14 let's get a, you know, angle for social media or this and that. It was just show up, have a ball and we'll leave, go eat.

Starting point is 00:15:21 I mean, it's, I mean, no, we didn't care about six pack. We just want to get strong. Are you kind of grateful for that? Cause social media probably just wasn't crazy popular at the time,

Starting point is 00:15:29 right? Absolutely. That is the biggest though. I mean, those years were probably the biggest gains I've made. And fortunately for me, because I was, I mean,

Starting point is 00:15:37 it happened at the point where my, my newbie gains was just taken off. And again, obviously we just kind of like why a lot of younger guys now that I coach, I mean, reaching out for coaching, I encourage them to stay in that surplus for quite some time because, again, you're never going to get those years back.

Starting point is 00:15:54 Those newbie gains, you are never going to get that back. So while you're in it, capitalize on that. Just live in it. Just, you know, juice. Don't point at me when you say juice uh to be clear we're talking about uh lemonade juice organic juice you know the fucked up thing about the juice i was drinking and this is it was the uh the simply lemonade watermelon flavor and it's that's the fucked up part about it because it actually had the the least amount of calories

Starting point is 00:16:23 out of all the simply lemonade juice drinks but even so still calorie dense but it's just anyway you know what i'm gonna shut the fuck up sam let's continue brother but i mean again uh so started there and um ryan was competing just watching him go through that process of bodybuilding was like wow this is pretty cool it's pretty unique and if you if you ever hung out with um ryan doris or you know anything about us you know instagram or pose is very philosophical very you know uh you know deep thinker kind of guy and like literally i tell people stories of you know you're walking out and it's like stop it said it just like ticking notes and just like you know like you ever wonder like the correlation between like eyeballs and like a camera like i'm like i'm like no like i thought about that

Starting point is 00:17:05 yeah yeah sure sure sure sure yeah of course every time who does again he's that kind of guy and he's just like you know what you know it's if you think about it it's the same technology and like it's tough to ask him how to grow your chest because you're gonna get some long like but then again he can shift go back to training, and just hit it hard. He's that kind of guy. He's a deep thinker. So I was very fortunate. And so I'm going through that process of bodybuilding.

Starting point is 00:17:32 I'm like, okay, I kind of want to go through this process, too. So my first bodybuilding show was a non-sanctioned show. Please do not look up Sam Canola's Greek Physique 2007. Samo Canola Greek Physique 2007 Ryan when Ryan once makes me cringe

Starting point is 00:17:47 it brings my posing video from that video up it's like yeah it was my side chest was epic I'm talking about

Starting point is 00:17:54 body contortion I mean contortionist I mean it was magnificent so that's the homie yeah it was a contest rep there

Starting point is 00:18:03 it was like a few weeks out actually look at Jack this fuck I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was I was a constant spread up there. It was like a few weeks out, actually. Look at Jack this fuck. I was main gaining. He was leaning out. Yep. I mean, the picture doesn't do him justice.

Starting point is 00:18:13 I mean, quads for days. He's an OG. But yeah, I mean, going through that process, meeting him, watching him go through bodybuilding prep, and I just kind of started. I did a great physique. I'm like, okay, this is actually kind of neat so you're telling me I can dedicate 12-16 weeks to a specific goal changing my body composition

Starting point is 00:18:32 looking shredded and I can do that and then you can go back to trying to match trying to do like you know an actual like you know sanction show and fortunately for me for my first sanction show the OCB Midwest States which at the time was one of the hardest shows to win, I got my pro card my first time.

Starting point is 00:18:49 And won Federation. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're doing there. And this is drug-free, drug-tested, bodybuilding. Drug-tested, polygraph, you know, piss test and all that fun stuff. And got my pro card there. you know piss test and all that all that fun stuff and uh got my pro card there um then you know went to uh competing uh other multiple uh pro uh pro shows but again i think one thing one

Starting point is 00:19:12 thing that kind of got me started i kind of like okay this is this is one something i like is the almost like the control of your body i mean you have you i can dedicate some time and change my body i have that control i have that i can. I can change. I can get shredded. I can get big. I know what to do to this body to be able to achieve that. And once you do that, it's, I mean,

Starting point is 00:19:31 it's, did that for, I don't know, 10, 12, multiple shows. Yeah. One over,

Starting point is 00:19:38 I don't know, one shows. I remember the shows that I've lost, but I don't remember the shows that I won. Yeah. And your first world championship was? IP Worlds in 2017, I think. What did that feel like?

Starting point is 00:19:53 Were you pretty happy with the results? I don't do accomplishments well. I don't do, I don't do accomplishments well. I don't, I mean, it's like, I mean, I think if people like a world champ, I shrugged that off a little bit.

Starting point is 00:20:11 I'm like, I reached our best. That's like my normal response. I'm like, I reached our best. Yeah. World champ. It was in this particular contest with these particular guys.

Starting point is 00:20:19 Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. World champ. I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's,

Starting point is 00:20:22 I don't know. It's, it's, it was good. It was, I mean, it's, I mean, great competition. You competed. You won. I recognize that.

Starting point is 00:20:29 And that's it. Like, I enjoyed that for a second. And I don't really, like, let it, like, I don't, like, ah, I've arrived. I literally, it's like, once a goal is done or finished, I'm on to the next one. When you were in it it were you attached to being a bodybuilder or not really I mean like what like if someone's like hey what do you do you be like I'm a bodybuilder like would were you attached to it yeah I'll say that definitely I mean obviously that's that's changed it over

Starting point is 00:20:55 there but I was definitely yep I that was pretty much your identity yes exactly exactly yeah I mean it was again I think the community you know in a natural body with Bob you know bodybuilding organization and the gyms that I go to, people know who you are. And this was the times also. I just aged myself. I said, this was the times. Like back in my day kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:21:15 Back in my day. Doesn't that suck? Becoming that motherfucker. Yeah, yeah. Show my age a little bit. What about the losses? Like what if you went to that championship and what if you lost? Would that have, like, meant more almost to you in some weird way?

Starting point is 00:21:30 Yes. Yes. Oh, now we're finally talking about that. I mean, I remember, I'll tell you a story of my first loss. Because I remember that, like, fucking yesterday. PTSD. Body building PTSD. 2012. PTSD Sorry brother PTSD

Starting point is 00:21:46 2012 It was May It was the IP IFPA Yeah Pro North Americans

Starting point is 00:21:55 In Minnesota Probably again Another big show When you have like 16, 17 fucking pros In the lineup You have the pro You have a heavyweight

Starting point is 00:22:02 You have a lightweight And I mean That was my first pro show. That was my pro year. My first pro show, loss, that's another story. But the one that stung, that thought I, you know, I was feeling myself. I'm like, yeah, this is mine. And I didn't win.

Starting point is 00:22:20 And when you ask the judge, and the judge was like, compare number 24. Cavs. I'm 24. Cavs. I'm like, Cavs? I'm like, Cavs? Cav pump? No, no, no. Not conditioning. Not Cavs.

Starting point is 00:22:37 I'm like, come the fuck on. I was like, literally, I'm like, oh, you want Cavs? I'll show you Cavs. That's the sport though, right? Absolutely. That I'll show you calves that's the sport though right absolutely that's the sport and that's the shitty thing about it

Starting point is 00:22:48 I mean I'm like I'll show you calves I mean I will be honest right now I mean calves is not my favorite thing to train I keep mentioning

Starting point is 00:22:55 Doris Doris hates training my abs he calls it belly pumps why the fuck do I do belly pumps that's what he said I'm like

Starting point is 00:23:04 because it's the weakest part of your body maybe if you pay a little attention so is your calves I'm like touche touche I give him a stinger

Starting point is 00:23:13 calves I'm like I mean now I mean it's like I'm over it that's when you know someone's serious when you ask them what they're training

Starting point is 00:23:17 for the day like I got calves and abs calves abs that is very specific right I'm like okay not glamour muscle groups

Starting point is 00:23:25 like that but no I mean it was I mean I'm like okay the next I mean I took a year I normally take like a year off before I compete again

Starting point is 00:23:32 I took a year off and I won that show and I literally went to the lady not bitter or anything not salty I'm like how about them calves like you know

Starting point is 00:23:39 you know good enough good enough to to win it's like oh my god you look's like oh my god you look great like oh my god

Starting point is 00:23:46 god damn right I look great not like not like that but like deep down I'm like oh yeah so that was my

Starting point is 00:23:55 I mean my my significant loss I think like actually like you know took personal but other than that 2017

Starting point is 00:24:04 WNBF Worlds got second to Sam Watt the gentleman that we were talking about personal. But other than that, 2017, WNBF Worlds got second to Sam Watt, the gentleman that we were talking about before we got on the podcast, another freak of nature. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:12 I mean, I've been very fortunate, like, again, You should pull him up too because this is us. What was his name? Sorry.

Starting point is 00:24:17 Sam, Sam, the joke was like Sam 1, Sam 2. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:22 Sam Watt Fitness, W-A-T-T. He's, I mean, yeah, yeah. Sam Watt Fitness, W-A-T-T. He's, I mean, the story again about Sam Watt is, I mean, we were talking again before we got on the podcast. Like, I think one of the downside of the fitness industry now, or you don't know what's attainable because you see somebody. You see a lot of pictures, I mean, singular pictures out there, like that guy just by himself. And there's no rep, I mean, you cannot compare that picture to somebody else, or, you know, you don't see them in person, or a lot of people

Starting point is 00:24:52 like, you think they were not natty if you see them in person. Of course, when you post pictures, you're not gonna post your, you know, your sick angles, that's what you put out there. Yeah, that's Sam Watt, and I mean, 225 lean. I saw him the day before

Starting point is 00:25:06 getting on stage getting like pre-show like pump up at the gym in Boston I'm like yeah

Starting point is 00:25:13 and I showed up to weigh-ins heavyweights and I said drop him I'm like I'll keep my shit on even though he looks young he looks like he's in his 40s

Starting point is 00:25:21 is he an older cat? no no no he's like he's like mid 40s he's an OG he looks awesome he's been he's been he's been at it for a while and he's in his 40s oh yeah no no no oh yeah he's like he's like mid-40s he's in 40s and og triple looks awesome he's been he's been he's been he's been at it for for a while and he's got a strong i mean polythene background too i mean he is there is one difference though between natural body builders and the guys that you see doing really really well is that the guys who are

Starting point is 00:25:39 doing really really well a lot of them are older because it takes a lot of time to gain that muscle. And then these guys have longevity since they're not abusing their body as much. Dexter Jackson is an example of somebody in the MVC who's been doing it for a long time. But you see a lot of guys like Sam Watt, Jeff Alberts, a lot of these guys that are reaching their peak

Starting point is 00:25:59 in their 40s because it does take a long time to build that type of muscle. I mean, if you look again, you mentioned Jeff Albertson, he trains in his garage. There's no fancy equipment. It's literally the simplest setup over time that he keeps doing over and over and over again. What the fuck's the matter with that guy?

Starting point is 00:26:18 Training in his garage by himself? I'm like, Jeff, like, you know, call me up, man. I want to hang out. I mean, again, one of the, I mean, Jeff, I mean, always fun guy to be around. I mean, the joke is he's a granddad. I'm like, Jeff, call me up, man. I want to hang out. I mean, again, one of the – I mean, Jeff, always a fun guy to be around. I mean, the joke is he's a granddad. I'm a grandson. There's the last – That's impressive to go into your garage every day and do it by yourself.

Starting point is 00:26:36 That's a different kind of commitment. I mean, hell, I have three gym memberships. I need something. I mean, I got my leg day gym. It's an investment. It's my mental fitness. My leg day gym. My everyday gym.

Starting point is 00:26:54 Just because I like to. Environment. I like the change of environment. Don't admit. Two gyms in one day probably here and there. Yep. You see him do the same movement over and over and over again and yeah it's like 51 or some shit now so when you were uh when you were going after like a pro card and those kinds of things um

Starting point is 00:27:18 did ever start to you ever start to wonder about the other side you ever start to wonder about performance enhancing drugs or because you were surrounded by so many athletes that were on the uh natural side and trying to do it that particular way was it just something where you're like i don't even know if i ever need this i can get i'm getting in great shape without it man um and again i mean so something i mentioned when i first started uh training or working out was the, I mean, I was so naive. Like, I was so naive. Like, again, I'm the guy opening up, like, you know, the muscle development magazine thinking I can look like J.Culler if I train or Dexter Jackson if I train and eat like them.

Starting point is 00:27:58 I mean, I knew what PED is, but it didn't even, like, add up to, like, huh, maybe. The curiosity was never there yeah now again to the other point that you mentioned i was i mean i was very privileged to be around great looking body but they were bigger than me it just happened to be at your gym yeah not not necessarily i mean you can when you compete and you like it's very you know immersed in that sort of natural body within like world you go to shows to see other people you see different competitive competitors all the time. And like, hell, I trained with Ryan Doris. If you see

Starting point is 00:28:27 Ryan Doris, I mean, at his peak, at the time, there is no way this guy's not newer. He was disgusting. I mean, granted, he's a genetic freak. I mean, his brother is a freak Olympian. His older brother ran track. He ran track. So he's a, I mean, he's a... That's Ryan Doris.

Starting point is 00:28:43 That's Ryan Doris. He's just a genetic freak. But he's a genetic's i mean he's a that's ryan doris he's just uh a genetic freak but it's a genetic free that worked really really hard and he knew what he was doing too it was just like oh yeah i'm a generic i'm you know not gonna do anything anything crazy but to your point yes because my i was so naive to to didn't i mean the curiosity never like i was never curious about it because again it's like oh yeah let me see me see what I can do with this body. And now, I mean, later in the future, I mean, later on, I mean, when I became more aware of PEDs, it's just not – it's something that I feel like for you to keep that, you need to keep doing over and over. You don't just – yes, you might dial up your dosage and things like that.

Starting point is 00:29:23 But I was never curious. I was never like – yes, you might dial up your dosage and things like that. But I was never – I was never curious. I was never like – again, I will say something I think the younger crowd now, they have working against them, again, social media, digital age. You compare yourself. You see some guy out there and it's like, man, I want to be like that. And the guy might not be telling you to use this up or whatever. And it's like, you know, I can be like. And there's a lot of information on that stuff now. Exactly. Like when you were starting, like bodybuilding for you started before 2010, right?

Starting point is 00:29:56 You said 2006? My first bodybuilding was 2006. So that means, so there was no YouTube. There was exactly magazines and maybe some forums online. Like I said, I age myself by saying I literally rip out my workout from a muscle build magazine. I relate. I did the same thing for many years. Like, yeah, if I can chill like him, I'll forget.

Starting point is 00:30:16 This workout's sick. 15 reps, 20 reps. The rep that actually count is only 7 repetitions out of that and everything is half repping stuff the worst part is I ripped it out of a magazine that I didn't even buy

Starting point is 00:30:29 in the grocery store like didn't want the money back did you ever like were you curious about like other competitors though like once you did become aware

Starting point is 00:30:39 did it it wasn't on your rate hard then either again again be naive again I mean I think if you say I think most successful people It wasn't on your radar then either. Again, being naive. I mean, I think if you say I think most successful people, I will reference Nick Baer just because I think on your podcast, you mentioned starting this business.

Starting point is 00:30:56 Being naive about a lot of things helps you because you don't know what the limit is or you don't know what the pitfalls are. He's like oh i can i can i can you know i can run you know wasn't hung up on logistics exactly exactly i can run you know five miles if i can just go outside right now like you know that's not a good example but you know that is a good example because like do i got the right shoes on wait can i run five miles oh it's raining outside like i'm just gonna go and do it you know without any sort of information of like you know what if well you know this and that no i i it would it never occurred are we gonna warm up i i was not i was it it never crossed my mind at all i was had fun doing what i'm doing i'm making you know gains that i you know thought

Starting point is 00:31:40 was relatively if you look at my trajectory like in my competition i would never like gain five pounds on stage. I mean, you might do some water manipulation or carb manipulation and just kind of look bigger because you got leaner during the concert spread, which allows you to actually fill out a little bit more. Yeah, but other than that,

Starting point is 00:31:58 like, I mean, if you actually look at my body composition on data, like my lean mass didn't really grow that much yeah outside of like your my you know newbie gains i've been to within 205 207 you know um what if uh was it ryan doris is i'm sending it name right what if ryan doris was on stuff like when you met him you know and what if he was a competitive bodybuilder in that fashion yeah do you think you would have maybe damn whoa maybe went more more that route or do you because do you think the people around you think they had a big influence i mean they dragged you into bodybuilding and they kind of taught you about a particular way to bodybuild do you think it might have been

Starting point is 00:32:37 different if those guys were using performance enhancing drugs no no i mean yes it's hard to say but i mean knowing like knowing me like i want i mean i know like i think one of the cop out of most people i'm just i'm afraid of needles like like those i mean it's got me i actually am but it's it's it's foreign like it's just i mean one i don't know what to do i don't know i mean injecting shit in your body is just like i'm i mean you're a doctor? Am I sick? I'm not sick.

Starting point is 00:33:06 Nothing's wrong with me. So why do I need to inject all, you know, or whatever it is, why would you take it? Like it never crossed my mind. And if he was doing it, it wasn't like I was not,

Starting point is 00:33:15 I was not easily, I mean, I was not an impressionable person anyway. So I just, again, I think just the, the community at the time when I started training, I think it helped a ton.

Starting point is 00:33:25 Again, it's just social hour. There was no conversation about PEDs. We're just like, bro, like there was a thing. There was a – when we had a thing in college, I mean, a lot of young dudes out there that think, oh, yeah, you cannot train or whatever. You can do both if you find time. Ryan Dorries and I, we took one of the hardest classes in college, College of Business. There's a college in, College of Business

Starting point is 00:33:47 called UBIS 310. Shout out to NIU. Go Huskies. 310, their class is a nine-grade hour class. It's a class, if you get a C in it, that will drastically

Starting point is 00:33:56 affect your grade. You take an exam every two weeks. You sit in the class for four hours. That's like a finance, marketing. Like, one teacher leaves, another one comes in.

Starting point is 00:34:04 And you leave that, you go bartend. I was talking finance, marketing. Like, one teacher leaves, another one comes in. And you leave that, you go bartend. I was drinking Red Bull like a freaking maniac. Sugar-free Red Bull, of course. Not juice. I was drinking that

Starting point is 00:34:19 and I was still in contest prep, too. I'd say, not ideal, but I'm just saying it can definitely, definitely, definitely be done. But, I mean, around that time, again, we, I'd say not ideal, but I'm just saying it can definitely be done.

Starting point is 00:34:26 But I mean, around that time, again, we just, I mean, being naive about it or not knowing what the alternative is, it's just like, no, we had literacy. Okay, how are we going to get jacked? We had a training block called Operation Fit No Jeans. Like just crushed legs. Oh, yeah. Which worked for me because, again, Ryan's like, it's jacked as shit. Again, just crushed legs. Oh, yeah. Which worked for me because, again, Ryan's leg is jacked as shit.

Starting point is 00:34:47 Again, training with him because it's strong. I mean, it was like wrapping 500 pounds, like, you know, for rest back when. I mean, it's like 2007, 2008,

Starting point is 00:34:55 back in the day. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, now, you see you wrap 500, and you're like, oh, that's it? Like, you know,

Starting point is 00:35:01 people are doing that more than that. But literally, we had Operation Fit No Jeans, and I vividly remember bartending, literally bent over, and I ripped my freaking jeans. Like, it was great. And again, that...

Starting point is 00:35:12 Yes! I'm like, we were looking, like, you know, trying to, like, cover up and whatever. I'm like, yes! This is it. I literally call Ryan, I'm like, it happened. I know that feeling. Mission accomplished. We're like, bro, I ripped no jeans. And it happened to him, like, it happened. I know that feeling. We're in the same accomplished.

Starting point is 00:35:25 We're like, bro, I ripped your jeans. And it happens to him like a few weeks back he had like khaki shorts on, ripped that shit. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:35:31 fuck yeah. I mean, that was the environment back then. We just get excited about like, you know, this,

Starting point is 00:35:36 I mean, I mean, that kind of stuff. Better than any world championship. Man. Blow those pants out. man,

Starting point is 00:35:42 it's like, I'm like, yo, manager, I gotta go home and change his pants, man. I mean, that like yo manager I gotta go home I changed his pants man that pants

Starting point is 00:35:47 I mean I did not throw that shit away that was like I worked for that frame that shit frame that shit Sam was here 2007

Starting point is 00:35:54 oh man sweaty balls and all yeah man I mean that yeah I mean it's it's I mean

Starting point is 00:36:00 such a that environment definitely helped feel my the way I perceive of the way I view bodybuilding or just doing it for the enjoyment of it, really. So the gap that you talked about a little bit and the gap that you talked about a little bit is like, there is a lot of knowledge out there nowadays on how to take them. I mean, people probably go, I don't even know what's all available. People probably go through very meticulously on exactly kind of how to take stuff.

Starting point is 00:36:26 And then now you have TRT companies and stuff like that. It's a sexy thing now. You could be helped along a lot easier. And that was actually the gap for me for many years is like I knew people around me were doing it, but I was also just a kid. So I was like, I don't know, 16, 17, stuff like that. And I was getting stronger, but i was always like i really wonder but this is like really interesting like these guys are huge yeah and i'm getting pretty big and i'm getting pretty strong and i'm doing better in every competition that i'm doing

Starting point is 00:36:52 uh but i wonder like what it would be like to do that stuff and i just really couldn't give it any more thought because i didn't understand much about it and i heard like some people were like oh there's some pills and then some people were like, oh, there's some pills. And then some people were like, there's oils, there's injectables. And I'm like, I don't know. Whatever that shit is, I'm probably going to end up doing it sometime, but I'll save it for when I'm older

Starting point is 00:37:13 and I can better understand it. Yeah. I mean, I think, again, a lot of the information is, I mean, information is great. Like, you know, being accessible and all that stuff. And at the same time, it's detrimental

Starting point is 00:37:25 because you have some young kids. Again, I think a lot of people probably hide that under the umbrella of being transparent. I'm using TRT because I just want to be transparent with my audience and just let you guys know this is what I use.

Starting point is 00:37:42 I'm not promoting it. Don't do this. I'm going to this is what I use. So I'm not promoting it, but I'm just... Don't do this. Don't do this, but I'm going to tell you what I do. And, of course, when you know the demographic of your audience, like younger dudes that want to look like you, of course, I mean, yes, it takes a lot to do this, but too late. Are you already...

Starting point is 00:37:59 I'm not... Be honest. Hey, props for you, honestly. Yeah. But I think it's just... It's a weird... It's a weird area of like you know when i i mean yeah thank you for being honest i mean i'd rather be honest than just be

Starting point is 00:38:11 like a fake natty or whatever i'm like you know the interesting thing is we we've been talking about trt and we work with merrick health which isn't a trt company they're a company that they do blood work and they help people on supplements and all that type stuff they also do trt company they're a company that they do blood work and they help people on supplements and all that type of stuff they also do trt for people who need it yeah but because we've even been talking about trt people think that we are literally marketing trt you know what i mean or we're trying to sell trt which isn't the case but it's like if you talk about it it's like people will assume that you're selling trt and it's's such a, it's such a, it's again, I think one, obviously you're going to, you're going to find reasons to justify you taking it. Oh, I feel tired. Oh, must be my TRT is low.

Starting point is 00:38:54 I'm not getting good sleep. Oh man, my test is low. Man, I just feel foggy. I mean, my test is low. You know, it's like the thin now. Like, yeah, I mean, if you get older, I mean, it's called life sometimes, right?

Starting point is 00:39:06 You know, you just get old. Do you think you would, if you were on your 50s or whatever, and your test was lower and your performance wasn't where you wanted to be, would you consider TRT? I mean, if it's something that's like negatively affected my health, I mean,

Starting point is 00:39:23 possibly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but I mean, I just thought it will will be it will be a last resort it would have to be like detrimental like you know bro like that's like you know i think i think we need we need like yeah you're not gonna make it i mean that's that's morbid but i it's i mean again i think there i mean the small there small, there's a tiny, tiny percentage, of course, people, you know, if you go through, you know, chemotherapy and things like that. You know, I have clients that are on TRT just for general health purposes, just because, again, it's just in a shitter, it's in a tank, just multitude of reasons.

Starting point is 00:39:58 But I think a lot of people just find the easiest way without really doing like, you know, your simple steps, you know, sleep, you know, just, you know, work out if you don't normally work out or, you know, maybe you're working out too much, you know, get some sun, get some sun, you know, a lot of other variables that you can change, but people are just so quick to just jump to that TRT. And those habit changes also don't, those changes don't make an effect immediately. No. Like if you're someone who's- Takes time, yeah. If you're overweight or obese,

Starting point is 00:40:25 even building the habit of exercise, that won't feel good for a few months. It's going to feel terrible probably. It's going to feel terrible. So no, I mean, I, again,

Starting point is 00:40:34 I've been coaching for a while. I've, I've had multiple clients, you know, ask me about it. I'm like, I'm not the one. I don't have any way to start for you.

Starting point is 00:40:42 So, I mean, not to like, oh yeah, you're in drugs, you know, I'm like, you know, against you. I just don't, that to start for you so i mean not to like oh yeah you're in drugs you know i'm like you know against you i just don't that's i'm the wrong person what was your body weight at um when you met uh ryan in the gym um my body weight was like a 190 92 so when he saw you he and asked you for a spot and you guys got talking he's probably like this guy's like

Starting point is 00:41:04 i mean this guy's pretty damn 190 and mainly muscle like you're probably pretty good shape already i will put myself in the in the y category shape uh meaning why oh legs what are those i don't turn legs much like doors definitely made me love training legs and i knew if it's something i want to do. Doris is a fucking horse. Again, when you train with a guy that, you know, that's showing up, you know, it's ego thing maybe too. Like I don't want to, I don't want to fucking outlift me. Even though like, you know, it's about quality of reps.

Starting point is 00:41:39 Like maybe like, I don't know, six out of like the 12 is like, but I just want like, I want a knee bend. It's to actually train, right? So, I mean, again, being in that situation definitely, I mean, being with with him definitely helped but 191 93 192 um i mean i had a dedicated bulk i mean i was there i mean what'd you get up to because i've seen pics and you looked like you got i i mean i took body weight as a badge of honor i was that guy like i'm spilling out of my t-shirt, but a lot of it is fat. I'm talking about like China King. What was that weight though? About 240, 245. I mean, some people might look at that and be like, wow, you still got some lines.

Starting point is 00:42:14 I'm like, nah, that was just a good day. The moment you met him, did you just kind of just start bodybuilding almost right away? Almost right away. to just start bodybuilding almost pretty much almost right away almost right away and again it's it's it's i mean it's fortunate because one the same major uh college of business we took the same classes together uh took summer class summer i mean didn't go home during the summer i mean we took summer class together we trained the rec was available to us um so i mean no i mean it was just it was just i think the the community, that it's a hangout. Like, we go to class together.

Starting point is 00:42:48 We bartend together. We hang out at the gym together. And when we hang out at the gym, it's like, bro, like, you know, it's calling him up like, bro, what are you doing? Oh, you know, just doing my routine, taking a shit before leg day. You know, me too. See you in five minutes. But it's, I mean, it's, I mean, that, that, I'm grateful for that time because I tell people, like, I don't know if I would have had that level of dedication, like, to days, like, you know, if I started now. That's why I feel like a lot of young people coming in now, they have it hard. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:15 I mean, it can be done if you, you know, focus up. But it was definitely, I mean, it was a social hour man funny little tidbit that I just remembered when I was uh focused on bodybuilding back in like 14 or whatever I was following at the time I was following you and I was following Ryan I was a fanboy of Ryan like I was like yeah this guy's jacked whatever so I was like following his content and I was one day I remember I was in the 24-hour fitness parking lot I saw a notification on Instagram the natty pro followed you I was like oh shit I went home I told my girl hey I just got the fall from ryan doris and it's just funny looking back at it now because like i looked at his stuff i looked at your stuff and you guys were the guys that were like making me super motivated to train ryan was vlogging at a time too yeah he was vlogging on youtube at a time yeah yeah so that

Starting point is 00:43:58 shit is just funny because like yeah the the generational difference is pretty interesting i think uh would you say that you have like pretty good genetics like going in? Because you said you were 190 when you started. But you have a previous, I'm sure you were lifting for many years. You said you were in the military. Like when did you start lifting? So, I mean, I said genetics. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I can dig up some pictures like back in my mom's basement of like, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:28 Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I can dig up some pictures, like, back in my mom's basement of, like, you know, benching on, like, Joe Weider, you know, bench press filled with sand. Those are plastic sandals. She got you those? Oh, yeah. My dad did. And, you know, like, get a little bit of sweat. I'm like, two reps. You know, nobody can tell me shit. Dude, I was the guy struggling in PE class with, like, 135.

Starting point is 00:44:43 I was that guy. But that was not the reason why I started lifting. I played soccer. Strength training was that. You had Osgood Slaughter too. Twins. We can relate on so many levels. Not just because of the color of our skin.

Starting point is 00:44:58 I was the guy struggling in the gym and started working out. But again, I had abs, the 10-pack and genetics. If you see two of my brothers, you're probably not going to see the resemblance. And when he says 10-pack, he's not joking. Your ab genetics are kind of wild. I could have made a lot of money. Let me just tell you

Starting point is 00:45:18 follow my ab program. You too can get a 10-pack and leave the portion of you just being that's just your genetics. A lot of you do that. I could have made so much money, man. Man. Just package that thing up and like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:32 Genetics along with a lot of environmental. Oh, yeah. Because you played soccer, you've been an athlete, military. Absolutely. And even in military too, like, you know, I mean, stretching wasn't really, I mean, yeah, casually worked out, you know. But mostly, you know, wake up in the morning, you run. And after, like, you know, after you finish your workday or whatever, if you're not in the field or anything like that, you don't want to. That's the last thing you want to do.

Starting point is 00:45:54 You don't want to train. You just want to hang out with the buddies. And, you know, but again, when I got out of the military, you know, I had. He's got a 10-pack. He actually has a 10-pack. That's not a joke. I had, I mean, again, you finish school. I mean, it was just – the timing was right.

Starting point is 00:46:12 It was, you know, the environment was right. All those, I mean, played into just falling in love with the bodybuilding community. And what the community of natural bodybuilding was at the time too is just – I mean, the picture that you guys just posted, the left picture, community and the world the community of natural bodybuilding was at a time too it's just i mean i remember i mean the picture i guess just posted the left picture i believe that was uh jordan cup and yeah that was when doug miller was like you know crushing everybody's soul crushing the yep that's uh yeah that was i mean i second at heavyweight. Oh, shit. Yeah. Was Doug a heavyweight?

Starting point is 00:46:46 No. He wasn't in that? Okay. No. I think he was like light heavy, I think. Yeah. I mean. The unfortunate thing about like natural bodybuilding is that there's a lot of really great athletes and really cool bodybuilders in it.

Starting point is 00:47:00 But because there are so many different organizations, like I have a pro card in three organizations organizations like i have a pro card in three organizations you probably have a pro card in like five organizations at this point man if i want to show up to a show that i don't have a pro card it's like uh yeah you they they og you into that yeah you got you got you got one of that now we can we can we can let you let you be in here and it's so dispersed and unorganized that like when people don't even know where to look when they look at natural bodybuilding. You know what I mean? That's the unfortunate thing about it. I mean, again, I think I made a post about the natural, what I think it's best for natural bodybuilding.

Starting point is 00:47:36 Again, this is just a suggestion. I'm not saying no, I know it all. But I think I have some room to speak because I've been, you know, in the sport for quite some time, is if we have not too many bodybuilding federations. I mean, natural bodybuilding federations, we can consolidate or make a one if that's going to be possible. But I understand the difficulty of doing that. I think, you know, again, a lot of, rightfully so. I mean, if I create something, like an organization, I'm going to tell people this. My organization is the best.

Starting point is 00:48:02 All those are just like in the second best. But realistically, though, we all know who the best bodybuilding, you know, Federation. WNBF, if you're interested in doing that. If you, they have, I thought I was going to have a few clients competing in the, shout out Matt. Matt Burke's going to compete in a bodybuilding show in a few weeks from now. I have a joke with the promoters of WNBF. Like anytime I compete in the world, they always have it in cold places.

Starting point is 00:48:27 I skip a year, typically, again, time, you recover. And it's always like, why don't you have it in a warm place when I want to compete? But that's just a side. But if you want to get involved in bodybuilding, you just want to see what a bodybuilding Olympia type will feel like, go to a bodybuilding world. I mean,

Starting point is 00:48:46 30 countries. I mean, I think I thought they were going to split it up into two days instead of one day because, I mean, again,

Starting point is 00:48:54 you start in the morning. It doesn't end until like 2 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. I mean, it's over 300 competitors showing up

Starting point is 00:49:01 and that made it, it's a long day but it's so much fun. Because again, I mean, different bodies from Lamianto. I mean, the reach is there. But again, people don't really know that happens because you have so many different organizations. Yet, it's not, you know, as accessible as the IPBs or the MPCs. Because again, it's just two, one amateur and one pro division.

Starting point is 00:49:25 And typically it's easy to find one closer to you who are going to promote it. For natural bodybuilding organization, WMBF, I would say predominantly, I mean, not predominantly, but a lot of them are West Coast. You know, some East Coast, too, not so much in the Midwest. And you have a certain, you know, federation, the OCBs might be a little more kind of just scattered all over the place. But, I mean, if we can find a way to consolidate that, I think it would definitely help. And I mean, some megaphones from the younger-ish people that are coming into the fitness or the bodybuilding space, that social media or things like that. But unfortunately, a lot of the OGs, they just want to compete and be like,

Starting point is 00:50:03 I don't do this social media thing. No, I just want to lift and mind my business. Have you been called out before by Greg Doucette? Natty or not video? Talking about calling out, I don't get called out that much. Which I don't like that. It's kind of fucked up. Yeah, I i'm like yo like i ain't working i'm trying hard here man like come on like you know a guy called me out on one of my it's a few years back he called me like yes i commented like man go

Starting point is 00:50:40 can you do me a favor go on every post post, man. Just like double down, man. That would make me really, really happy. Like, you know, again, when you know like what you do is what you do like in a natural way. That shit doesn't bother me at all. I don't give a fuck. I'm like, please. But when you don't, like, I'm trying, guys, you know. Guys, where's my night in or not video? But I will say, shout out to Jeff, Jeff Nippert. Jeff Nippert, when I did After the Mayhem Show, I shot a video with Jeff Nippert.

Starting point is 00:51:12 And, you know, of course, on the platform, his platform, there's no way that guy's natty. I saw those comments. The comments, the validation people use for natty or not is just bonkers. I mean, I'm sure you've heard it all. It's too lean. Nobody can get that lean. Have you been to a natural bodybuilding show before? Are you kidding me?

Starting point is 00:51:30 The fact that you're natty alone makes it easier for you to get leaner because you don't have any other variables that you have to account for in terms of compounds and things like that. That's why you see a lot of people like a lot of this. I mean, IVB pros, people that are on subs, they might look good like a week out, but you just push too much. I mean, so much that you're trying to, you know.

Starting point is 00:51:52 But when you don't have any other additional, you know, variable, just, you know, manage stress, being toned down, you know, carb up, I mean, your body looks a little bit healthy. I mean, you can't. Look at Berto. He's going to be here pretty soon. I mean, that dude is putting little bit healthy. I mean, you can't. Look at Berto. He's going to be here pretty soon. I mean, that dude is putting on a freaking clinic this year. I mean, if you follow any of his YouTube videos of, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:52:12 what this concept is, I mean, if you don't know who he is, you live on a rock. It's a knowledge base. I mean, him, the 3DMJ, that was your first coach, right? Berto, yeah, yeah. He was my second coach, and I learned a lot from him. He's great. I mean, I had B butter uh uh for like a short stint and i remember the conversation i had with him like hey uh you know i mean you wanna you wanna you wanna prep me it's like why i'm like you know i think i can get better somewhere it's like i mean i was already

Starting point is 00:52:39 kind of lean uh i took an l and one one of the shows that i – that was the show Jeff Alberts beat me in. Oh, wow. And he – granddad tells me. He's like, you remember that time I beat you in Kansas? I'm like, oh, I do remember vividly. I remember so much. I'm like, I'm going to talk to Birdo. I need you.

Starting point is 00:52:59 Yeah. So Birdo actually prepped me for Yorn Cup. No, prepped me for a second show that i did that year and then uh work with another coach uh for your own cup okay of that year but no i mean it's it's it's it's it's it's pulling up a put up a clinic i'm sure i i wonder if greg doesn't call black guys much we talked about this that's what i'm wondering yeah I'm wondering what you think about Natty or not just in general so the reason why so Jeff

Starting point is 00:53:29 Jeff Nippard after that video that's I mean I was watching More Plates More Dates somebody just like I mean tagging me

Starting point is 00:53:37 like bro bro bro I'm like what what's going on like bro Derek More Plates More Dates

Starting point is 00:53:43 like talked about you I'm like oh he did? So it was, it was like, it was like a video, like, searching,

Starting point is 00:53:48 like, you know, what Google recommended as like, you know, the natural bodybuilding and he pulled it up and when he typed,

Starting point is 00:53:54 when he typed in the name, it was a thumbnail of Jeff, Jeff and I for the video that he did and it kind of just did like a five minute, I mean,

Starting point is 00:54:02 it's like my five minute thing. I'm like, yes. Yeah. We've arrived, boys. We made it. i mean it's like my five minute fame like yes yeah we've arrived boys we made it we made it so that five seconds is like you know it's one of those like yeah you know back in my day i did play the nfl you know one down that's it you know it's like that was my that was my one down i'm like yep yeah nobody else like no i mean please i mean call me out i love it i i look forward to it. Well, let me ask you this, man, because like now you've been running quite a bit for quite a while and your training's different. But first thing, were you at all afraid of losing muscle as you started developing more as a runner?

Starting point is 00:54:37 Because that's what most people are scared of. They see Mark running, they see a bunch of people running and a lot of creators are even making videos of why you shouldn't run so first off why'd you do it and are you noticing why did i run yeah why'd you start sorry um so i mean that your background my background play soccer i mean it's you know was the military ran got the military i'm like yeah nope not doing that anymore bodybuilding um so uh two two years ago i started developing again the reason why i worked with dr erin uh lower back and like my left knee was like but i mean bothering me like i mean i love i look forward to like a torture of a leg session like it's that's, I need that thin. Yeah. And not being able to train as hard as I,

Starting point is 00:55:27 you know, I mean, upper body's fun, but no, no, no, legs. Like, not being able to do that. So, pretty much, knee extension,

Starting point is 00:55:34 no issue. Knee flexion, bothers me. So, running was like the only hard thin that I can do in my training that kind of,

Starting point is 00:55:44 not mimics leg training training but just giving that the suck or like doing something really really uh pause um i was about to do something do something really really hard i would say with that i'm like don't clip that um and uh but i mean i mean so i started you know running a mile two miles i'm like okay like it wasn't too bad i mean first the first mile, two miles. I'm like, okay. It wasn't too bad. I mean, the first mile, the worst pain ever. I'm like, oh, my God, never going to do this again. 11 million miles, something like that.

Starting point is 00:56:12 I mean, it was like great. But again, I just need to find something that resembles that. And the more I do it, the more I say, okay. It was difficult. It was never easy. To this day, it's still not easy running. But got into it, started picking it up, and my wife, she's, I mean, she's, again, if you put my wife and I close together, I'm like, yep, that's a runner. He's not a runner.

Starting point is 00:56:34 What is he doing here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The gym is that way. Yeah. And that's what I would get. And it's something that we've always wanted to do, like just run together. And so we just pretty much trained together for like a half marathon. And that gave me like, you know, something I want to do with my wife. At the time, I was just like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to do, like just run together. And so we just pretty much trained together for like a half marathon. And that gave me like, you know, something I want to do with my wife.

Starting point is 00:56:47 At the time, I was just like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to do this training. I mean, if that's that and that's that and just, you know, get back to strength training. But the more I do it, I'm like, I kind of like this. Like, ooh, what's that feeling? Ooh, like, you know, what's that challenge? So it became more of a, I'm a newbie at it as something again. Strength training, it was just like, I mean, I can do this with my eyes closed. I coach people.

Starting point is 00:57:10 I know what I'm doing. Outside of like, you know, kind of just, you know, you don't have to force me to get out of the gym pretty much. But I still stare at my shoes like till like 20, 30 minutes. I'm like, oh, do we want to do this? You know, the first time I'm like, ah, we should cap it. But I mean, again, after you finish, the feeling of that is great. So that's why that's kind of just kind of got started into running and it almost became a routine.

Starting point is 00:57:35 I know the difference when I run during the day that I run and the days that I don't in terms of mentally how it makes me feel. I don't in terms of mentally how it makes me feel. Progressing into that and segueing to worrying about losing my strength or losing size. Because being a coach helps because, again, you have to – specificity when you're training matters. And the specificity at the time was not running focus. I was trying to blend that and I understood there's a possibility I'm going to lose some strength or I'm going to lose some size and that's something I was completely okay with

Starting point is 00:58:13 just because I was getting this newbie feeling, new high feeling of that. But again, I didn't want to just like, you know, well, I've worked too, I mean, so hard for this muscle group. I'm just going to peace out and just not care about that anymore. Protein is still up there. Managing recovery when I run. Higher calorie day when I have my big runs. Not really caring about calories at all.

Starting point is 00:58:34 I just need to eat a ton of food. Recovery. Protein never wavers. But my strength training, when it comes to the way I designed it, of course, my maintenance, I went to maintenance volume on leg training. I mean, my upper body training, I was still kind of pushing it relatively hard. Maybe not just like two days, I would feel like a long run or something like that. And, you know, I programmed to where I'm going to scale back a little bit just to make sure all movements, that's not going to be causing a lot of systemic fatigue.

Starting point is 00:59:02 That's going to prevent me from being able to perform my big runs. So I was never worried about losing gains just because my— You know how to manipulate the variables. I know how to manipulate the variables to get what I want from it. Of course, I'm not—and I know if I go into it like, okay, I'm going to eat a ton. I'm just going to train hard. I want to keep my strength gains. I'm just going to wreck my shit altogether,

Starting point is 00:59:25 which puts me out of the game completely. So I have to come to the understanding, okay, how do we want to adjust this to be able to do both? So no, I mean, again, to your point, I think that's what a lot of people are scared about. Like, you know, I mean, again, oh, running makes you lose all your gains.

Starting point is 00:59:40 You can manage that, you know, so. Power Project family, how's it going? Now we talk all about strength on this channel, but strength starts from the feet. That's why we've partnered with Vivo Barefoot Shoes for over a year now. Now Vivo Barefoot, unlike most shoes, number one, they look great,

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Starting point is 01:00:12 I think a lot of times, too, people don't realize a lot of everything else about you changes, too. When you change what you're doing, your mindset shifts. There's like changes all around, like even maybe some of the music you might listen to, like the music you listen to for lifting, there might be certain nostalgic things that you like when you lift versus when you run. Absolutely. Like there's so many other aspects that change that are, that maybe people don't realize. And a lot of questions I get are like, oh man, do you feel weak? Like, did you lose strength and i'm like uh yeah probably somewhere but i don't even have any idea if i lost strength because i don't even do the same exercise

Starting point is 01:00:50 or if i'm going to do the same exercise i don't really do them the same way yeah yeah i mean you spot on uh to the to the music uh to the music part um talking about uh so i did a 12-mile run uh in montana while i was visiting Flagman Field. And I used to start, and then you come in and talk to me about the mistakes. I mean, maybe I should make a YouTube video about this or whatever. You probably see a lot of YouTube videos about mistakes I made when I started lifting or running. One of my mistakes when I started running was listening to music. And I know it's still, I mean, again, maybe running like a mile here and there,

Starting point is 01:01:25 like, oh, I'm just going to put my music on. You know, I just get jacked up. You know, of course, when you put a playlist together, you put a playlist of music that you enjoy that will want to get you through it. But what that does is you get so revved up. You're supposed to be running like a nine-minute mile. I'm like, man, 820. I just feel good.

Starting point is 01:01:39 And you're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But you still got like, you know, six more miles to go. You need to be in that range to be able to finish the workout. So, again, short miles, it was great. But the longer the miles got, the more I'm deviating from listening to music and just trying to be aware. And this run specifically, I know exactly what's going on. If you see my hands moving, I was listening to military airborne cadence.

Starting point is 01:02:08 Okay, so, yeah, tell us what exactly is going on in your ears right now because when you told me this, I'm like, you're crazy. So, before this run, I'm like, okay, I listen to podcasts or I listen to audiobook. I think the audiobook was like doing hard things i was like you know what it wasn't doing it i need something something to get me motivated and the only thing i can think of is back in the military if you if you are bet you know exactly what i'm talking about cadence one two like can you find one on your phone absolutely of course um and what are you doing with your hands right there you said you were one on your phone? Absolutely. Of course I can. And what are you doing with your hands right there? You said you were doing something with your hands.

Starting point is 01:02:46 What are you doing with your hands? Oh, I'm in a flow state. I'm just, I mean. Oh, you're like bopping to the music a little bit? The cadence was going. I'm like. Oh, gosh. It's, yeah. It was a good time.

Starting point is 01:02:55 I want to hear what this sounds like. Feels amazing, right? No, it was. When you get into that state. Like, it's supposed to do, it's supposed to be easy um nine mile um 12 mile run uh slow i mean nine maybe 9 30 started 9 30 from mile three to about mile nine i was like 8 20 i was i mean like the guys who i ran around i couldn't see i mean they were like yeah i mean i couldn't hear shit i was the only one i mean that was probably probably like the

Starting point is 01:03:25 second or the first time i experienced what the flow state is like is just you you're just like well of course it caught up to me like the last two months i'm like oh shit i went too hard and um in the last two that's interesting like you're uh the way it feels to me is that you're like running um you're like running with your body's uh like fascia rather than trying to run with your muscle. Exactly. Less thinking. It's like a stretch reflex, like back and forth, and it just feels incredible. It feels effortless.

Starting point is 01:03:54 Yeah. It's really interesting. Because most of the other time when you run, you're like, holy fuck, my ankle hurts, my calf hurts, my shin hurts. Let's hear this on the mic real quick. Yeah, put it up there. Yeah. Washington hurts.

Starting point is 01:04:01 You want to listen? Let's hear this on the mic real quick. Yeah, John. Put it up there. Yeah. He's just like. Okay, I can see that. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:12 Okay. I literally thought it was just left, left, left. I mean, those parts come to like, when you transition from like one cadence to the other, it's like left. You just got to get in step, you know, things like that and switch another cadence. And, you know, left is just like that command, like, left, left. That actually sounds kind of hype, though. Isn't there a song that has that in the beginning, right? I mean, a lot of people have definitely used a military-like.

Starting point is 01:04:37 But, no, I mean, I've listened to, I mean, listened to Cadence like that. Again, that was like, oh, yeah, I need some motivation to finish this run, right? And the only thing I could think of is just like, I mean, those, I mean, you weren't tired to just because it was, I mean, I mean, battalion run, company runs. Everybody's vibing out. It's almost like it's rhythmic. Like everybody's lock and stab, you know, and things like that. So that's, you know, why I dug into that. I mean, pulled that out.

Starting point is 01:05:01 to the question on music but now later on like you know like the later parts like you know training for like the half marathon I mean the marathon

Starting point is 01:05:07 last year last October no music you know just ditched it I mean if there's a video on YouTube

Starting point is 01:05:15 that I post talking about title Y run I mean the last one just went on a freaking rant like it was I mean you can tell me shit

Starting point is 01:05:23 I fell on top of the fucking world. Like, 18 miles, I mean, negative split. I'm like, oh, fuck, yeah, let's go. Like, it was such a. I don't know what running lingo. Negative split means. Like, you're back. So, I was supposed to do my runs on 930, 925, 925.

Starting point is 01:05:41 The back, if you have a 20-mile run, right, the last few miles of the run is a lot faster than what your, uh, few runs said. So, um, so I mean, eight, I mean, that's like eight 20, like at the end of the run, when you're supposed to be tired, I was running faster. I mean, I was just, I was feeling great. And again, I stopped listening to music just because, I mean, at that point I'm like, I think I figured this running thing out, you know, for me, right. I'm like, you know what I mean? Cause again, I stopped listening to music just because, I mean, at that point, I'm like, I think I figured this running thin out. For me, right? I'm like, you know, because again, not the music. I just want to be in tune. I want

Starting point is 01:06:11 to be here. I want to embrace the suck. It's a problem. It's whatever that thing is, the conversation is, I just want to let it happen. And I think one thing I definitely noticed is because it creates awareness, which I think is needed if you're going to run. And I think what the mistake in terms of music is,

Starting point is 01:06:30 it's distracting from actually having that awareness of, whoa, okay, maybe your gait is kind of, you know, something a little bit funny or getting a little bit tight here. Or, you know, the way I put it is running is just a series of problem solving. Like I look at it as a problem solving event. I'm just going to solve the problem, you know, and just trying to, you know, work it out, you know. And as each month comes around and the problem comes, okay, change your gear a little bit. Maybe focus more on the big toe, whatever.

Starting point is 01:06:57 Spread your feet a little bit more. And just having that awareness while I run. And I felt like music was distracting me from being aware of what's going on. If it sucks, okay. If it sucks, okay. Let's talk through it. Are you going to quit? I mean, you see people.

Starting point is 01:07:13 You have a conversation. I mean, it's just so much that you are aware of. Everything becomes a little more heightened, too, because you don't have a distraction of an audio that you might like or music that might be distracting. so that's one of the reasons i'm like once i've been that 18 miles like oh okay all right and since then it's like yeah i mean the only time i do listen to like podcasts or audiobooks on my shorter runs like you know like six three miles i mean i mean three four miles or something chicago run yeah i mean i'm just gonna you know so i kind of just enjoyed

Starting point is 01:07:44 that a little bit more, you know, but still think about other things and get distracted from my audio books still. But yeah, longer run, it's almost like, I mean, it sucks, but I want that feeling. I want to, I want to, I want to, I want that, that's mine. That, you know, that sucks.

Starting point is 01:08:01 I want that in my bank. I don't want to get, I don't want to miss it because I'm distracted by listening to music. It's the art of, like, distracting yourself. You know, you're running and something's bugging you. Like, I don't know about for you how it's worked out for you, but almost every time, like, something's off or something's different. Something's at least different about every run.

Starting point is 01:08:20 And sometimes you're like, this is so annoying. Like, I rolled my calf out, but now it hurts. Is it going to cramp? But you're problem solving too. You're trying to solve it while you do that then. You try to switch your gait and try to switch the way you're running and you're like, try to run to one side or something. You're like, I don't know what to do with this. But then you start to get creative and you start to think about something totally different.

Starting point is 01:08:42 Like, I wonder if I push with my glute a little bit more. And then, I don't know, you're 100 yards down from, you know, when you were having these negative thoughts, and now you're just focused on something totally different. You're like, oh, I feel good, and you get back into it. The awareness. The awareness. That's the only thing I can literally put out. It's the awareness of, you know, neck pain.

Starting point is 01:09:01 I mean, like, it runs because that's where the problem typically finds it, right? And you're trying to solve it too at the same time. It's just, again, I think one, I mean, I know for a fact the reason why I love it is because it's my time. It's me. Again, you have family. You have work. I mean, once you're done, it's like, okay, I have that time. Then I can, you know, which again, you can consider all the other things that you have in life as some sort of distraction from you because you're not really you at the time.

Starting point is 01:09:26 You're just giving yourself to others. Yeah. So that time alone is just, you know, whatever it is I'm going through, I just want to, you know, just meet. Just, you know, be me in whatever that conversation is, whatever that feeling is, whatever that task you have to do later that's bugging you, problem you're trying to solve. It finds you. You sort it out. But at least you are within yourself without any other distractions. I like what you're saying about the problem solving. And I think,

Starting point is 01:09:50 you know, if we were to relate it to something like jujitsu, like if I put my knee on you, it's not going to be a problem for you because you've solved that problem a bunch of times, you worked on it. I don't even know how to get proper leverage. If you put your knee on me, I'm probably going to tap. You're like, Mark, we didn't, I didn't even, I'm not even know how to get proper leverage. If you put your knee on me, I'm probably going to tap. You'll be like, Mark, I didn't even know. I'm not even doing anything. I was trying to show you something. I'm like, ah, and I cry.

Starting point is 01:10:12 So it's like a series of problems that you, jujitsu is interesting because you got somebody else to worry about. Imagine that on your run. You got somebody else to fucking think about too. But it is a series of problem solving, problem solving, problem solving. I think that's what people fall in love with.

Starting point is 01:10:26 And lifting is like a little harder, I think, to get the same problem solving until you really – you have – well, I guess jiu-jitsu would be similar. You got to learn a lot. But like lifting, it's like you don't even know fucking where to start. There's so many different lifts, so many different ways. I think lifting is just – I mean, one, realistically, you're doing it for a short period of time,

Starting point is 01:10:46 really. I mean, on the load, performing a particular exercise, I mean, it's not really, I mean, what,

Starting point is 01:10:51 a minute maybe, it tops and you're done. And, you know, maybe trying to think, okay, how was that? Or,

Starting point is 01:10:56 you know, how was that effort? Or that's, that's about it. It's not, you know, I mean, unless maybe things like,

Starting point is 01:11:02 I mean, I think there, there is something to be said for a cardiovascular tasking workout movement that brings that out of you. Unlike strength training, I will compare it to that. So maybe CrossFit, for instance, you're doing this like EMOM. I mean, you literally – I mean, you work and you're exerting yourself, exertion, in a way that's just consistently for a long period of time. That's where you're trying to – again, you have the conversation with yourself. You question yourself.

Starting point is 01:11:26 Can I finish? Oh, I need to tap into this to make sure I have enough grit to finish that. It's a bunch of stuff going on for a long period of time because it's a time to vend. You have a time that you have to finish if you're running. It's a time to vend. You have the X amount of miles. Strength training, I mean, I'm sure you can probably think about it and find

Starting point is 01:11:42 whatever you can grab out of that and translate that into strength training and make that, derive that kind of feeling from that. But it's just harder to do. The focus is not there. I mean, short period of time, you're done. Okay, I'm done with that. Move into the next movement. Move into the next movement. So when you're done, it's like, okay, cool.

Starting point is 01:11:57 I look at my book and I'm out. You feel good, but you're still not on that level of that running. but you're still not on that level of that of that running so what what you know actually you have a military background in terms of running but over time doing more running has anything changed has the way you walk changed has your gait changed has like the way you handle your feet because you mentioned sometimes on runs when you run into a problem or you're like okay let's focus on the big toe or something like that so what what have you found is changing as far as your perception of your own body? So running has shifted, again, the way I train too. It's almost like while you're running, trying to figure this out,

Starting point is 01:12:35 obviously you're starting to get into this wormhole of trying to figure out, okay, this is what I'm hyped about right now. I need to figure out how can I be efficient, how can I be better? Is my form better? The same way you'd probably straight train, like train like okay instead of just adding more volume how can i execute this movement better to get as much stimulus as possible from this particular moment but instead just like adding more you know volume but running again because it's it feels like a total different space feels like total different movement for me to run better or run efficiently

Starting point is 01:13:02 i need to be aware of these things i've've never really used to pay attention to how my toes or how I need to spread my toe. The big toe is like a big, massive thing that contributes to how you move. Paying attention to those things or kind of trying to be aware of it. If I wasn't running, yeah, I mean, yeah, you feel grounded, tripod stand when you squat

Starting point is 01:13:22 and things like that, but that's about it. But repetitive movement and trying to be as efficient as possible, okay? Again, you know, having ITB, I mean, ITB, I had ITB issues, okay? I never knew how much I needed glute med work, like single leg movement or trying to record myself just doing, you know, single leg movement or external rotation. I feel my hips dipping on one side. If my hips are dipping on one side, I'm just walking or just performing like a stationary movement, imagine what that impact would be from just running alone, which again could lead to a lot of injuries. So the cool thing about running really is just like hiding,

Starting point is 01:13:55 I mean like presenting a lot of flaws in the way I move, period. Right, again, I mean that you wouldn't even notice. And I compare it to like a gearbox, right? A gear that's now properly wedged together. You know, yeah, you know, you can probably get some groove over time. But the more pressure, the more repetitive, the more wear and tear, the adventure is going to break. That's how I consider, okay, yes, I could, you know, function probably, you know, with training, strength training. But the more I run, I'm like, okay, this is not going to last long.

Starting point is 01:14:25 So I need to figure out, okay, a big toe. Everything stops when the feet are up, right? I mean, a house with a poor foundation is going to crumble inevitably. You're going to pay a lot more money down the line to try to fix that foundation problem if you didn't spend enough time or enough money or care in the first place to focus on having like a solid foundation. So a lot of things that I miss when I first started training now that I'm like highlight, that's definitely paying dividends and allowing me to continue to do the things I still love to do.

Starting point is 01:14:54 It'd be wonderful to be naive. That's what you were saying earlier. Cause like you ever have people run past you and you're like, how the fuck is that person running like that? Mark, I see this wild ass form, right? But it's cause they don't think about it.

Starting point is 01:15:07 I have funny stories about that all the time. Because again, I used to snowboard. And every older dude that just started snowboarding or doing some sort of sport. And you see this. I sound like old as fuck right now. This young little humans I'm talking about like so picture me

Starting point is 01:15:27 okay little kids little kids just like shredding I'm talking about like you know five six year old kids like what time is it

Starting point is 01:15:34 time to get extreme they just they just they just they're just flying I'm like you little shit

Starting point is 01:15:42 like I was I was that guy a perfect example to this was literally i was i was running i have the same rally from st louis probably know what i'm talking about the first spot loop and every saturday morning you have this like running club this young dudes i mean high school like short shorts like you know locks flowing with a freaking blender shades on. It's just like flying. I was struggling, bro. I think I had like COVID. I'm like, you got to shout that when you're running.

Starting point is 01:16:13 I got good. I didn't tell the kid. But my coach was like, hey, you know what? All we want to do is just want to get some miles in and see how you feel. I'm like, I was, I mean, I never stopped so much in the long run. I'm like, ah. So I just run in. And this little kid just flying by.

Starting point is 01:16:29 The same, literally almost same experience as like snowboarding. It's like, it's a good day to be great. I'm like, all I was hoping and puffing. I mean, I'm like, I run without a shirt on. I'm like, you're lucky I'm tired right now. You're probably not tired. I'm like, tell me that one more time. But're probably not tied I'm like tell me that one more time but I probably knew

Starting point is 01:16:46 like oh yeah this wounded animal he's not gonna catch me like you know it's a good it'd be great I'm like is it

Starting point is 01:16:54 oh god while I'm struggling no I mean again that again being naive I mean that would be great

Starting point is 01:17:01 that would be you know just be one that young cat running again you know just flying by that young cat running again. You know, just flying by like, oh, no. Anybody want to be, like, embarrassed, go and do a 5K,

Starting point is 01:17:12 and you'll see a bunch of little kids flying past you. Mark, why are you bringing traumatizing experiences out, man? I did a 4th of July 5K. Oh, my God. You're like, it's going to be fun. It's going to be great. You go out there and get a little run in. Mark, sounds like you were there this particular day.

Starting point is 01:17:28 Fourth of July, 5K. It's like four years ago. I remember that shit was like yesterday. Again, my wife, the running joke is like, oh, yeah. I mean, my wife and I, we have a competitive, you know, it's like, shit. Easy. I can do eight meter mile right now. Like, you know, 5K, I can do that.

Starting point is 01:17:42 No, I cannot. But of course, I'm going to tell that. Even again, naive. Not naive. I'm well aware that i can do that no i can't i cannot but of course i'm gonna tell that even again naive not naive i'm well aware that i can i can do that uh showed up for uh for the july 5k and i was hurting i kid you not she had to be she had to be maybe eight uh-huh so she was running she stopped and i thought she was like i mean she was hurting she's okay i'm like oh my god i mean i was i was looking for excuses slow down or just stop i was like oh yeah young girl like you know are you okay oh no i'm just talking about shoes yeah took off yeah and i'm like ah that was like you know that that was that was like yeah okay bye

Starting point is 01:18:22 see you flying right past it came out it's like oh you look good out there i'm like I was like, yeah, okay, bye. See you. Flying right past you. And she came back and was like, oh, you look good out there. I'm like, how old are you? You're like eight. But she knew she, oh, yeah, I heard that, man. I heard that, man, so. I did a 5K not too long ago, and I was getting towards the end. And I'm like running, and I'm like, oh, I think I'm going to try to catch up with this lady at least.

Starting point is 01:18:42 Then I'm kind of like, man, she, I think she's pretty old. Like this is fucking crazy. So I get next to her and she starts speeding up. And I'm like, I'm like, there's no way. Like I gotta, I gotta like, I gotta beat her, you know? So I start getting ahead of her and she starts kind of fighting back and forth. She's getting closer and closer. And I finally just broke the band away from her a little bit right

Starting point is 01:19:06 and then i finish and she goes she goes i was so insulted when you ran past me because i was like that guy's not a runner she's like i should definitely be able to beat him and i was like hey i was like if you don't mind that story ends that way i was like if you don't mind me asking like you know what's your age she's like i'm 63 i'm like all right good i beat up on a 63 year old yeah you're the worst right man you're fast i think no you know you know what's funny you guys getting to running i'm doing running a little bit like we're all doing a bit of running but it's funny that like people will probably see you guys out running right and

Starting point is 01:19:45 they'll be like huh damn i'm a way better runner than that guy and you fucking look the way you do yep it doesn't like it's just it's just pretty fucking funny i'm sure i'm sure i'm like i know you're touching me it's just fun though because you know that like maybe you know a year two years three years like you're going to be better. You keep getting better. And the times that you're shouting out, those are legit times. I mean, that's moving really well. Luckily, again, it's not something you're doing to be cool or to please others.

Starting point is 01:20:18 I feel like running is becoming maybe just my feed. I feel like a lot of dudes are like i'm so i when i see that i get salty i'm like let me see your running programming like are you actually programming running like oh let me get this cool shot for the gram real quick you know like i'm like i don't see that no you you said there's there's a lot there's a lot of people who are just sprinting to get that still and then they're out i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure i've made i've made that comment on my you know uh on my story a few times. I'm like,

Starting point is 01:20:46 you know what? Whatever it is, you're a big dude moving, which I think creates a lot of attention or, you know, I mean, a brighter scope on big dudes moving,

Starting point is 01:20:57 big dudes running and not being so, you know, even limited to like, oh yeah, well, I mean, we show up to a running track or running race

Starting point is 01:21:04 and I'm like, oh, what's this guy doing mean, we show up to a running track or running race. I'm like, oh, what's this guy doing here? Which I think that's actually transitioning a little bit too because I think a lot of runners used to not care about strength training. And nowadays I'm seeing more. Maybe it's something they've always been doing or whatever. I feel like the confidence that I'm like, confidence used to be, yes, obviously, the more muscle you have, the more oxygen it's needed and things like that. And that's why you see Nick Bear. People are like, know, kind of just if you want to get faster or whatever, you kind of just have to scale down a little bit. I mean, understand you're going to lose some muscle mass to get to that level. I mean, but I think, I mean, people like listening can correct me if I'm wrong, if you're a runner, that it used to not be like strengthening.

Starting point is 01:21:44 No, no, no. We just want to focus on running like the strengthening aspect was not as you know you know focused upon until like maybe like in recent years and understand no no you just don't need to be if you run all the time you're going to be frail you need strength you need to be strong at the same time too

Starting point is 01:22:00 and that's been cool to kind of see I think it's fair I think it's a fair assessment I think that's a fair assessment. I think that people probably have learned, especially like there's so many different ways to go about doing all this stuff. And again, if you're trying to become faster and you're trying to have the most efficient program, there's going to be some days

Starting point is 01:22:18 where you really dump a lot of energy into a particular workout. There's going to be other ones that are peeled back. There's a mathetone method that people talk a lot about and um you want probably for some people want about 80 percent of their training in there 20 a little bit more intense but for people that are just kind of going out and just and just getting the movement in they maybe don't need to be you know quite as concerned or have it like pinned down you know quite quite as well it's really just like just get some time in with some movement just move and again i think that's one of the

Starting point is 01:22:48 biggest things uh that a lot of people typically you know get concerned about when uh the first start like you care about like a certain time um but again i don't know why people i i mean maybe i'm just like have my own lens where i look at things i never look at things things or I compare myself to somebody as I want to run as fast as this or that. I'm like, no, I'm just trying to move. I know I have an idea what a good time is or what a good time is not. But at the same time, I have the understanding like, no, if it's something I'm not used to doing and something new, I'm going to suck at it for a while before I get decently good at it. And I understand that. So I think that kind of narrows my scope to just focus on you know getting the time under my feet it's probably rare too for some like the

Starting point is 01:23:29 best runners um maybe they maybe it could be agreeable that like four or five times a week is like an ideal thing yeah yeah yeah I mean and then so you probably need something else yep absolutely could use something absolutely no absolutely again, it's like, you know, the, I mean, I mean, the saying, you know, you run slow to run fast, all far. It's hard to, I mean, it's hard running. It's a fast thing. How fast can you get there? Like, what do you mean run slow? The concept kind of just

Starting point is 01:23:55 like, you know, evades a lot of people. Like, what do you mean? I'm trying to run fast. No, no, no. You're trying to build your fitness. And again, it's hard for me to, you know, I'm very, you know, thankful to'm very thankful to have smart areas that I don't know anything about. I will reach out and, I mean, hire somebody that knows what they're doing. So I, you know, want to learn. And it's just I just don't know.

Starting point is 01:24:18 And I want to be good at it. So you teach me. You take over. That's why I hired a coach. And, I mean, my half marathon, I actually followed an why i you know hired a coach and i mean my half marathon actually followed an app uh you know to to train for app i mean so after i mean tells you run this mile this day run that mile on that go it was good yeah it was good i mean i'm sure if i showed it to somebody but like oh yeah i mean i probably would have done this or done that you know

Starting point is 01:24:39 whatever but when i was like oh yeah i'm gonna run a full marathon, that's a different beast on its own. I need to hire a professional. So shout out to Coach Casey Klein, one of the BPN athletes. I mean, she's a beast of a nature. And, you know, it's like, no. I mean, she's very like, you know, Keith's like, no, Sam, the goal is not, you know, sub three hours. The goal is just get miles on your feet. Literally, that's it.

Starting point is 01:25:05 I mean, yes, you want to focus on the time. The only runs that I focus on time maybe is like once a week on my speed workout, my threshold workout, my zone workouts, or my 100-meter repeat, or 1,000-meter repeats and things like that. You want to be in a certain pace. And that's the only time. Other than that, literally just get miles under the feet.

Starting point is 01:25:24 And I think, again, one of the biggest things, if people listen, I want to get into running. I know it's very, very hard for you to not compare yourself to others. It is extremely hard not to compare yourself to others. No, just like anything, right? Fitness, whatever. I mean, run your own race, your own pace, your own time and you'll be fine yeah you know it's a funny thing uh i think last week or whatever two weeks ago i did something to my back so i wasn't able to run for like a cool nine days and then i took a run yesterday morning and it's like

Starting point is 01:25:59 i was starting from scratch again i'm just wondering do you is that normal for it to feel like because it felt like the first mile i'm like what the fuck and then the second mile that i did i just started doing sprints and i just did a sprint and then i just walked a bit because i was just like fuck this this just doesn't feel good so is that like do you guys i mean i can i can relate again because i took that you know eight weeks off because of it band and i came back and you know yeah that naive like oh yeah but i was crushing again because I took that, you know, eight weeks off because of the IT ban and I came back and, you know, yeah, that naive, like, oh, yeah, but I was crushing like 18, 20 mile runs. Like, you know, like, you know, I should be able to, you know, I mean, that three, I mean, the first, I mean, mentally too,

Starting point is 01:26:36 you know, it's a mental struggle because, okay, and I'm like, I mean, you get so, I mean, if you're not familiar with IT, you know, ITB syndrome is essentially every step that you take on whatever part it is, it's like somebody jabbing a toothpick, I mean, an ice pick to the side of your legs. And it's like, you know, again, the awareness is like maybe too aware, right? In a slight little, like, ooh, is it coming back? Is it coming back? So you're like very, very conservative. It's like the way you do things.

Starting point is 01:27:01 I'm like, okay, I'm going to pause a little bit. Okay. But maybe too conservative. I mean, I'll tell my kids, I mean, Sam, you can go faster than my 45 pace. But to your point again,

Starting point is 01:27:10 yes, you are definitely, I mean, three miles is like, oof. Like, yeah. I mean, kind of, for a split second, like, man, that's, I mean,

Starting point is 01:27:18 you compare yourself to your old self and then you kind of walk yourself back like, no, chill, bro. Like, you know, you've been out for, I mean, not a week. It's the same thing. You've been out for like yourself back like, no, chill, bro. Like, you know, you've been out for quite, I mean, not a week.

Starting point is 01:27:27 It's the same thing. You've been out for like, you know, a few days, especially having like, you know, that big of a block or, you know, a mileage to like, you know, nothing.

Starting point is 01:27:34 And, but typically I would say again, it takes, doesn't take you as long obviously to build that or to get back to where you were compared to where you started.

Starting point is 01:27:43 So I think, I mean, it's just like anything else. If you have been detrained for a while, I mean, you probably get it back a lot were compared to where you started. So I think, I mean, it's just like anything else. If you have been trained for a while, I mean, you probably get it back a lot quicker. Same thing with lifting. I was actually curious about this too. The Goggins thing that you did, the 4-4-48. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:56 The baddest man alive. Yeah, that's something I wanted to bring up too, but specifically how you ended it. And because you said something that was pretty, I thought it was incredible you were like i'm gonna miss this even though i forgot the exact terminology you used but you were like not loving it in that moment but you're like as soon as this is over i'm gonna miss it so can you yeah please go over the story and then especially that ending and then also like that whole thought

Starting point is 01:28:22 process of like almost leaning into the pain. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so, I mean, if you don't know what,

Starting point is 01:28:30 you know, you should, everybody knows what Dave Goggins is. If you don't know something wrong with you, um, uh, uh, it has this thing it does every year.

Starting point is 01:28:38 Um, you run four miles every four hours for 48 hours. And, um, again, Bill, I mean, mental toughness. if i mean you

Starting point is 01:28:46 don't have to run but you have to do some sort of like you know the the the premises around that do something hard or move every four hours for 48 hours so again i think i mean i did a half in october i haven't really been training i'm like you know i'm just gonna pick up you know running a little bit more like i mean in midwest it was cold i'm like okay cool i'm gonna do that to my wife i was like you're gonna do what i'm like run four miles every four hours 48 hours and see how it goes i'm like cool so um started so i mean it started i mean why again just to challenge myself you know naive maybe like okay sleep sure like you can manage that a couple of naps i mean here and there that would be fine. So I started.

Starting point is 01:29:26 I mean, it felt fine. I mean, the challenging part of that is literally, I mean, obviously, it's not the run itself. Your body does this weird thing, right? It's like your body's awake, but your mind is still groggy and asleep. I mean, the first mile, it's a struggle. I'm talking about like, ah. But then again, you get in the groove, you finish. The first mile of every four miles.

Starting point is 01:29:50 The first mile is just like your body's still kind of just asleep. Like, you know, I mean, your mind is like, okay, let's go. But I mean, it could be your mind thing first. Your body's trying to catch up or your body's like, you know, catching up. Your mind is like, it's just this balance. You're trying to fight throughout the whole time. So, I mean, overall, I mean, i was like okay i'm i felt great i mean going into it and again you understand the assignment like you know it's going to be tough it's not like oh this

Starting point is 01:30:13 oh my god i didn't know it was going to be this hard of course you know it's gonna be challenging right uh so and while i i think i had two more uh iterations that i had to do um i had the four hours was good i I went home. I just, I mean, after a certain point in time, I'm like, man, fuck showering. I'm not even showering. I mean, I, so the 4 o'clock run into, before the 4 o'clock, I did a 12, 12 midnight run. I did not sleep because I found out when I tried to nap, it was just harder for me to get going. So I'd rather be up, period, and doing shit and not just have to like restart the whole body over again.

Starting point is 01:30:53 So that was my – and it worked really well. Of course, it caught up to me around like 12 the next day. Took a nice little cat nap. Literally, I was playing my daughter. I took a picture of me just just wiped out on the floor. Sweaty pants and everything. I was just like, I'll be here if you need me.

Starting point is 01:31:09 Yeah, yeah. So then the last moment, again, I think one of the excitement of like, this is my last one. And I was just like, and that again, having that awareness or conversation with yourself like,

Starting point is 01:31:20 okay, this shit is hard. But in a weird way, I'm loving it. Like, I'm like, I'm doing hard shit. Like, you know, it does something to you. I mean, if you've ever done anything hard in your life, it does something to you that's very, very hard for you to explain unless somebody else goes through that experience themselves. So I was running. I was with my homie Max, who helped me just like, you know, record and just keep me company too because I was going to put a video together.

Starting point is 01:31:44 And I was just running. And I was going to put a video together and I was just running, you know, I was coming to the turn of like 3.5. I'm like, I just felt this like, man, like I'm going to, I mean this feeling of like doing something hard,

Starting point is 01:31:51 this will, I'm just like, and I was just grooving too. And it was, I mean, it was, it was hard to explain. Max was like,

Starting point is 01:31:58 I feel about right. I'm like, I don't want to stop. I don't want to stop. Cause again, I know back to the feeling of winning, like my first brochure, right? Or getting bodybuilding.

Starting point is 01:32:08 Or splitting those pants. Or splitting those pants. Or winning like a brochure. It's like, I don't do, it's like, I don't do accomplishments well or celebrate them as much as I should. But the harder things, that's what I feel like,

Starting point is 01:32:22 that's the challenge. And that's where maybe the meaning of life is really. Like, you know, yeah, it's cool when you win stuff celebrated, but like the challenging stuff that you do, those are probably

Starting point is 01:32:30 the most valuable thing that you ever do. So having that struggle, I know the amount of value that I'm getting from that, it's almost like, I just want to keep going. I want to keep going.

Starting point is 01:32:38 I don't want to lose it because again, when it's done, I'm feeling like, oh yeah, that's done. Cool, okay. I'm moving on from it and that's it.

Starting point is 01:32:43 But I just want to like live that suck a little longer. I want to bask in that. I think I said bask in that fuckery a little longer. It was – Somebody, have they ever done any endurance or whatever or something challenging? You probably can relate. You just want to live in that.

Starting point is 01:33:01 You want to – If I can bottle that stuff somewhere and just stick a sip every now and every now and then, you know, I will want, I mean. You sound like a junkie, man. Dude. Dude, I'm like, I just want them to take a hit. Let me just take a little hit. I just want that. And I end up doing, I think, six miles instead of four miles because I just, I mean, I just didn't.

Starting point is 01:33:21 And as soon as I finish, man, I mean, like, clockwork. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. That wasn't that hard. Like, again, because again, then it's like, what the hell, what else can I do? Like, what's the next hard thing that I can find? It was just, it was, I mean, I mean, it's too weird. I mean, again, hard for me to explain. It's one of those things like, you know, it's if you've gone through whatever that correlation to running or hard thing is, you can relate to that.

Starting point is 01:33:43 Is it basically like, is my math way way off is it like five runs every day uh pretty much yeah um because it takes you a half hour or however long it takes you to do four miles or whatever yeah um that's really that's really a really an interesting thing six well you'd be well because it takes you x amount of time to run yeah i mean i'm pretty much i give myself like an hour at least to finish the run and kind of time and okay i run an hour i have you know two hours or so to like recover an hour and a half whatever then go back and you know do that one i just want to address uh what you were talking about earlier when you said you went out for your run and you felt like you were brand new. Fitness falls off fast

Starting point is 01:34:26 and strength falls off way slower. So when I used to prep for powerlifting contests, the way the nervous system works and different things like that, and I know some people like to squat the day before they go in, but in my opinion, those are people that just have a lot of anxiety and I don't think it's necessary yeah i don't think it's necessary

Starting point is 01:34:49 makes any sense so in power lifting a lot of times most of my stuff would be done about two weeks out my benches my squats my deadlifts and i really wouldn't i mean i would go in and train but it would just be something totally different. So your strength sticks around for a long time. Your fitness will drop off really fast. The cool thing is your fitness will come back really fast too. Where the strength, and so I think you've said it really well earlier. You're basically, what I'm getting from your lifting sessions is that you want to move around better. You want to be more athletic.

Starting point is 01:35:22 But you owe it to yourself because you spent so much time building this amazing body yep you better send a signal to it that tells it not to give up and not to start to give up all this muscle mass absolutely otherwise you don't have the same choices anymore yep like you get yourself down to like 170 or 165 you can gain that muscle back you can gain that strength back but it's just it's just a really long road. It would take a long time. Absolutely. Again, you work so hard to gain it. You want to lose it. And you're just trying to find a way.

Starting point is 01:35:51 How can I hold on to what I have? And holding on to it, I know it helps me to be better in other whatever form of fitness that I decide to do moving forward. That's why strength training is important in any sport, in anything that you do. I mean, I don't care if you play table tennis or, you know, you can get some benefit from, you know, some sort of strength training. But no, you nailed it right on the head. You have anything else that you're thinking, like,

Starting point is 01:36:19 when you did that challenge of the four by four, do you have other challenges in your head where you're like like that was really exciting that was kind of cool i want to find something similar not necessarily a challenge but again whatever no i'm not gonna you know do any crossfit or no hate on crossfit uh i love you guys don't come for me um but um so because i was not able to finish the marathon I was training for due to IT ban so back to running now I built in on that

Starting point is 01:36:48 and kind of just looking forward to that you know 26.2 in February I'm trying to do the Austin Marathon in February and possibly do an ultra also like a 50 miler again I'm just I don't know it's call me

Starting point is 01:37:04 call me crazy I'm just i don't know it's it's call me call me call me crazy i'm just strength training is fun i love it i need it uh but the again the saying goes what got you there won't keep you there like i will i mean what got me to fitness is strength training i love that i still love it i still do it but as far as like you dude, your body's capable of so much, so, so much. And I think once you realize that, once you get a taste of it, it's hard not to like push it. Like what else can you do, right? I mean, it's, again, a lot of people, if you don't get what I'm saying, you, I mean, you need to find that thing. And again, it's just some psychological aspect of things like, you know,

Starting point is 01:37:45 I just don't want to go through life wondering what could have or, you know, did I really tap this body, you know, like it's full of this, you know, capabilities and potential. Like, did I really use it? Like, you know, it's that. I'm coming to find that out too. And on the personal level too, like my family and I

Starting point is 01:38:02 last almost a year gradually got in a car wreck uh that i mean it was deadly for the other person i think we had a conversation about that uh last year and um that happened and i'm like i mean we have this uh this notion for the younger dudes like you think you have this time like you have man, man, I'm 21. Like, you know, a lot of, again, reels typically, I feel like I don't learn a lot of shit from reels, but every motivational reels, I kind of just think a little bit better. And I think one of the reels that I saw was like, leaving your house or waking up in the morning is an underrated blessing. Right? Like literally the fact that you rolled out of bed.

Starting point is 01:38:43 I mean, I mean mean i know some guys you like well that guy looks healthy but hey you just heard he passed away like you know like last week and i'm like shit like that guy like there's no way so the fact that you woke you can i mean he took care of his body he was in shape he just had like an aneurysm and like nobody could see nobody saw that coming but what i mean and getting down to the accident that that happened that that was like like more reality i knew like you know i i'm i'm aware that you know life's not guaranteed but again being that close kind of like bro like yeah and that kind of just started that um that little trajectory like okay what else can i do like with this body i want to be able to challenge myself i won't be i mean yeah lifting is cool like I enjoy it but I mean is that it like constant spread but not that's not

Starting point is 01:39:28 I mean I've done it so many times I know exactly what to do I can do that when my eyes close like it's not that challenging it sucks but I mean I have familiarity with it train running like I'm like I like I said I had a massive 18 mile grade high high following week, 20 miles, barely finished. So I love the unknown. I love the challenge of myself, love the figuring out what this body is capable of doing. I think that's that space. That's a challenge that I am in right now. And I'm loving pushing my body, loving finding out new weaknesses,

Starting point is 01:40:03 which I think has helped me also understand navigate through injuries too. Like, again, I look at injuries. It sucks because, I mean, you can do – I mean, you want to do – you want to jump through a freaking – you want to run fast or live stronger. But I've changed – it's changed my mindset to look at injuries as just an opportunity to, hey, your body's telling you there's a gap somewhere. You need to fix that.

Starting point is 01:40:24 So, I mean, yes, it's okay to be, you know, moping around for like, you know, I mean, that's not going to help you. Like what's going to help you is, okay, let's figure this shit out. And that should be a fun project on its own that you're trying to figure out. That's the idea. It's all the mindset change. If you cannot change your outcome, change your perception. So, but no, I mean, navigating into like the running space or challenging myself is that's what i am going for that's what i mean environment that you surround yourself in shout out to the bp and crew i mean the when nick bear is doing you know again i'm

Starting point is 01:40:54 not trying to compare myself to him but like seeing people like him seeing people like adam clink doing uh doing you know things are challenging uh you know you're just not settling like it's It's very motivating to see. To the point where when I was down, I remember vividly watching Adam Klink because he was trying to do 100 miles. He only made it, I think, 82 or 85 miles, and he had a rhabdo. I was jealous of that.

Starting point is 01:41:16 I was jealous of that feeling because he pushed. And he got to... I mean, somebody... He pushed himself so hard that he got hurt. And you can be in a really compromised position with that. Exactly. So, it's, it's, it's, I mean, I, I, somebody, I know it's true. He pushed himself so hard that he got hurt and you can be in a really compromised position with that. Exactly. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's again, I mean, in, it found another limit.

Starting point is 01:41:33 Like the year before he ran that race with Nick, Nick bear, it was a, it was a, it was a pacer. And I think he had like a, you know, a altitude poison or something like that. So 20, 22 miles. So that was the limit at the time. He trained up for it. It got 80 to 85 miles.

Starting point is 01:41:48 So again, that feeling of people doing something hard. I just, I mean, like, it's almost like I want to do that. But not like in a jealous way, but like I want to push my body. Like what can you really do? So that's the space that I'm in right now. I'm navigating. I'm enjoying finding that. And I try to, you know, a lot of messages that I share in right now. I'm navigating. I'm enjoying finding that. And I try to, you know,

Starting point is 01:42:07 one of the, a lot of messages that I share a lot of times is like, you know, when you see somebody run, it's easy for you to like, you know, it's a cop out. When I see you like run, like you must be doing it because dot, dot, dot, dot.

Starting point is 01:42:16 Whatever, fill in the gap, whatever it is that makes you feel okay not doing that. And know, wow, Mark is running. It looks jack. It must be, you know, I don't know, whatever, special shoes or something, you know, wow, Mark is running. It looks jacked. It must be, you know, I don't know,

Starting point is 01:42:26 whatever, special shoes or something, you know, whatever it is. A guy looks, you know, living the life that you want to live. It must be,

Starting point is 01:42:33 that must be nice. And I mean, that's, I hate that phrase. It must be, nothing really good or sentiment comes after that using the must be nice.

Starting point is 01:42:41 Must be nice. Must be nice. I mean, so take yourself out of that and I like to tell people, I tell them, no, no, no. Let me be nice. Must be nice. Must be nice. I mean, so take yourself out of that. And I like to tell people, I tell them, no, no, no. Let me be clear. Running, I hate running.

Starting point is 01:42:50 I hate it so much. That's why I do it. Yeah. I don't, oh my God, fucking, I love running. I cannot wait. No, no, no. I mean, Divyag is put in the best two

Starting point is 01:42:57 in his book. Like, it still stares, I mean, at his shoes, like, for hours. Like, all right, motherfucker. Like, let's do this shit and let's figure it out like you it's hard

Starting point is 01:43:07 but you just figure it out and you only figure it out by literally taking one step at a time and just like you know I'm not sure about you like your first mile of every run

Starting point is 01:43:15 does it feel like okay your body's just trying to figure it out and then you get into a groove and okay here we are yeah it takes a while you gotta get your body warm and ready

Starting point is 01:43:22 yeah it's just a metaphor and other days there's no time other days you just pop out of your car and and ready. Yeah, it's just a metaphor. And other days, there's no time. Other days, you just pop out of your car and you're like. All right, figure it out. Why is it a girl? Yeah, for some reason, I can just run today and you don't know why. You're like, how do I repeat that?

Starting point is 01:43:33 And you can't even figure it out. Yeah. Some days, you just feel amazing. And other days, it might take you a half an hour sometimes to warm up. You said an operative phrase phrase that figuring it out. And that's, that's the, that's the,

Starting point is 01:43:47 that's the, that's the fun part. Just, you know, show up and figure it out. Where did this desire for personal development, like, where do you think it started?

Starting point is 01:43:55 Do you think it started with lifting? Did it start in the military? Cause like, it seems like you're, you're talking about listening to podcasts and you're run and you're mentioning a lot of people that are, a lot of people that are really successful, that are doing really well. Where do you think this came from?

Starting point is 01:44:09 It's funny because somebody asked me, like in a DM, or I've gotten a few questions like that before, like, you know, thinking, oh yeah, you have a military background, like military probably helped you instill that. I'm like, I mean, it helped facilitate a little bit, but I think it's something that,

Starting point is 01:44:21 maybe you can attest to this too. I mean, being like, you know, first generation American, you have, you know, Nigerian parents that migrated here. And to give you like, you know, the running joke between every Nigerian family is like, what are you doing for your interior appearance? Trying to become anything other than doctor, engineer, accountant, lawyer, you're a failure. Like they have powwow come to Jesus being like, what are you doing with your life? What are you doing? What are you doing with your life what are you doing with your life

Starting point is 01:44:46 what are you doing lifting weights is that going to pay the bills what is all this muscle here going to law school studying fitness

Starting point is 01:44:59 but no it's I mean coming from that sort of I mean so that background I think has something that needs of I mean sort of that background I think

Starting point is 01:45:05 it has something that needs to be you know talked about because they put this again one of the main reasons why

Starting point is 01:45:13 I mean I vibe well with Doris who was first generation American I mean Guyanese family like you know it's almost like that level of

Starting point is 01:45:22 almost disrespect like your parents worked so hard to give you this opportunity to do something, you know, great with your life. And you're going to, you know, be a half-asset, right? It's almost like disrespect, like slapping a face because they worked so hard. And how dare you not want to be better? How dare you not want to strive, you know, or just be happy with a minimum, you know, like you should be striving for more.

Starting point is 01:45:44 Whatever that is. Whatever that, you know, like you should be striving for more, whatever that is, whatever that, you know, avenue it is. So I think that's always been there by just having parents that, you know, kind of subconsciously kind of just put you in that space. And then military probably fostered that a little bit. And, you know, it comes down to, I mean, I've never, I can't really, I want to say some, you know, magical grand thing, but it's something that naturally just comes and, you know know i just feel the need to you know uh be there and again you know life experiences coming close to near death and you want to be you know just have a you know live a better life and you know um i'll figure what

Starting point is 01:46:16 what the limit is you feel amazing huh you feel really good i mean how can you how can you not how can you not you know again it's i mean back, again, it's, I mean, back to the point of, like, you know, it's hard to explain things for somebody. I mean, there's something that you just cannot explain. You have to go through that yourself to get it. You can put it in words. You can package it however you want to. Most people will not, I mean, pick up the hardest thing you've done and you're like, ah. And people are like, so how do you do that?

Starting point is 01:46:43 I know I'm name dropping doors a lot. And, you know, the best phrase I heard is like, and so I come in and see you, and I'm like, bro, the way you brush your teeth, man, that is impressive. And you're like, you don't brush your teeth the way I brush my teeth? Isn't that what normal people do? So to you, it's like it's normal to you, right? But it's like because that's the realm. That's you know that's that's what you know as your normal so i mean

Starting point is 01:47:10 it's i mean what's wrapped through to i mean to wrap the whole thing no i mean i think the parents environment uh that i grew up in foster i mean add that into it uh and having that as a core memory or core reason that you want to you know you want to make your parents proud and kind of translate into just other areas of life or whatever you do you want to be as successful as possible and i know for me to be a successful husband coach it has starts with me being challenging myself you know giving the time for myself to be great or you know opportunity to do some hard stuff to make sure okay we you know i'm not just coasting through life so yeah cool you got some kids too right i do two beautiful girls one is going to be two in two weeks i saw a video of like one of them running up to you maybe it was both of them

Starting point is 01:47:57 but at least one of them running up to you like on a sidewalk that is like oh my god that is probably one of the one of the cool i mean it was like it's we're on vacation and it was just i mean probably not the smartest idea to do like an hit of florida running a 10 mile uh run and i just come in it's like it's it's a saying in my house now that you come in it's like oh my youngest daughter uh her Riley comes like oh that is sweaty i'm like not to know i can literally come out of a walk oh that is sweaty went to the gym I'm like no

Starting point is 01:48:27 not sweaty not sweaty yet but I'll be soon like the dude's like ew you sweaty

Starting point is 01:48:32 I'm like yeah you can literally be eating like a banana oh you sweaty I'm like yeah

Starting point is 01:48:37 you good for a run so nah it's it's it's I would I would take that you know feeling I mean

Starting point is 01:48:42 the Divya Gagan studio my wife was a nice little surprise because I used to I ran through loop, kind of brought the girls out. They kind of ran like, you know, kind of just started running with me. It was, yeah. How old are they? My eldest one is going to be three, and my youngest is going to be two in a few weeks.

Starting point is 01:48:58 Oh, you're in it. Oh, yeah. Do you plan on having more? Madoka's trying to force my hand. Is it because he just had another kid? Yes. So when Madoka's announced that he's having a third kid and I knew. And my wife was like,

Starting point is 01:49:12 hey. I'm like, no. Oh, she wants to have you? Yeah, my wife was like, yeah, I'm good where I'm at. I think. So I don't want to say I think. All she hears is like, so there's a chance. No, I am good at two. hears is like, so there's a chance. There is. No, I am good at two.

Starting point is 01:49:28 So, no. It's like, you know, when you tell people that, they're like, oh, yeah, but you don't want a boy? I'm like, no. No, at the expense of having, you know. It's like, no, I love girls. I mean, the saying is, you know, I think the rock said it the best.

Starting point is 01:49:42 Every man wants a boy. Every man needs a girl. So, I mean, yes, in terms of the patience. I mean, you tend to Every man needs a girl. So, I mean, yes, in terms of the patience, I mean, you tend to think about a lot of things too, like in life, you know, you have girls that you're raising, like what kind of,

Starting point is 01:49:50 how you want to raise them, you know, you raise them as the strongest shit, you know, be able to take care of yourself and things like that. So, yeah, you know, and you, I feel like you have a little, you know,

Starting point is 01:50:00 you are sensitive to things you say and how you, you know, probably raise a girl then you raise a, it shouldn't be that way but subconsciously just fall into that so now it's that area like oh I can do this no no you can do whatever you want

Starting point is 01:50:11 I'm not saying you're strong you don't think you don't think it carries a lot of weight I think it does I know it does back to the fitness thing I think again as a parent I think you owe it to your kid not telling people how to raise their own kid, but I think one of the benefits of fitness

Starting point is 01:50:27 is because, I mean, you are, you absorb in everything that your parents are doing. And you just, you naturally just fall into that path of taking care of yourself because you see what your parents are doing. And I think, you know,

Starting point is 01:50:39 I mean, if there is any incentive for you to get in shape, at least, you know, I mean, the reason for you to get in better shape, it's literally like if you have kids, that's it right there. Do you have relatives nearby? I have two older brothers. They live in Chicago. Yeah, because I live in St. Louis now.

Starting point is 01:50:55 And will they be allowed to discipline your kids? Because he told me that that's a thing in your culture. The uncles. Yeah. Or the aunties. Whichever one. They never felt the need to, but I'm sure if that happened,

Starting point is 01:51:11 he's not lying. I have a question, though. You were spanked, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, I know. Bro, bro, bro, bro, bro, bro. I was not spanked. I got the switch.

Starting point is 01:51:21 Beat. I got the... I mean, I'm talking about, you see a lot of comedy shows and like you know when you say yeah you know trying to hide

Starting point is 01:51:28 away from your parents like you just pray and like hope to forget and it's like I feel like they do this on purpose right they let you wait

Starting point is 01:51:36 and just do like oh yeah think about what you have done he's walking around like oh yeah she forgot like no no no I'm like I feel like you know the call.

Starting point is 01:51:48 You know the name. The name just has a little bit. Ah, Sam. Sam. Dosie, come here. I'm like, fuck. She forgot. Man.

Starting point is 01:52:04 Oh, yeah. You get the spanking mom we don't we don't want to get this hands dirty yeah no we get that we get the we get the the sleep ass the uh the switch uh yeah and again right i mean think about it rightfully so i deserve that shit i was i deserve that shit too i was a ratchet ass kid but i'm curious though like does do you will you do you or will you spank your daughters just it's no how are you getting this my girl's like no no no the most i've done is like you know it's it's it's time i don't do time i mean i don't call it time i was like no you sit right there and don't move there is a there is a there is a there is a, I'm sure, I mean, parents, in my family, my wife is the, obviously, mothers are the more maternal and loving. I'm like, you're crying?

Starting point is 01:52:55 Are you hurt? No? You're just upset? Okay. Like, if you're upset, I mean, you figure it out. You cry it out. So when my wife is, like, you know, out or, like, you know, going around, I mean, going around me visiting like friends or whatever i'm like oh no you i got this like no i mean and they know like you know and i mean not like few mongering like they they behave well they're still like

Starting point is 01:53:12 into a little time you're like you know a little temper tantrum from time to time but yeah they're not like it's attached as they i mean to to me or what they i mean as they are to um to my wife so no but you know i'm um I can. I'm not saying it's going to be different if I have a boy, but I don't know. I don't know. Maybe because I know

Starting point is 01:53:29 kind of, you know, spanking that I got. Rightfully so. I was, I was, I was, I was doing some hood rat shit

Starting point is 01:53:37 with my hood rat friends. Tell some of these young dads how you are able to allow your wife to go do, not allow, that's not a great word.

Starting point is 01:53:47 You want to get canceled, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just how do you, how do you give her opportunities to get her fitness in? It's funny because the conversation that we had. You guys got to make sure, right?

Starting point is 01:53:57 You're on the same wavelength, right? One of the conversations that we had was like, I mean, so you think you're going to be working out and everything? I'm like, no.

Starting point is 01:54:05 I mean, again, I'm very fortunate because, again, I mean, so you think it's going to be working out, like, and everything? Like, no. I mean, again, I'm very fortunate because, again, I'm a coach. You know, I can,

Starting point is 01:54:08 I understand training, I understand programming, I can skill back or how to shift my workout around. I don't have the luxury of just going to the gym and spending,

Starting point is 01:54:15 like, an hour and a half or two hours in the gym like I normally used to. I don't feel bad doing it before because, you know,

Starting point is 01:54:23 yeah, it's just, I mean, she's probably in the gym with me also anyways doing her own thing so we can, and we come back. But now it's like, no, it's just, I mean, she's probably in the gym with me also anyways, doing her own thing. So we can, and we come back. But now it's like, no, no, no, you got to be a little more time conscious. So the way, luckily for me, like I said, you know, I have the perspective of a coach.

Starting point is 01:54:34 I can program my, you know, my training. I used to be the guy like, no, I'm never going to train during lunch or in the morning. But like, no, like my lunchtime is like where I, I mean, literally, and I, there's a video on YouTube where I literally do a raw training, hard training, RP called Jesus. RP called Jesus. When you call me and call me and coach me, I'm just like, nah, son, I ain't home, man. You got to save yourself from this one.

Starting point is 01:54:57 I feel like 45 minutes. Put your phone away. Just focus up. You can get a solid workout and if you truly focus on like not just not getting distracted and just focus on your training i mean mind you i was recording a video too while i was doing it too so it wasn't like you know so imagine what i could have done and the quality was there too it wasn't like i was i mean i was pushing some heavy weight but the point i mean to to wrap that around the way we manage that is again i understand

Starting point is 01:55:22 she needs a fitness to be her true self i need my fitness to be my true self or my best version of myself to be able to be the husband or you know the human being that i need to be and you know it's a priority that you know you want to make sure you are taken care of and it comes down to you make time for what you truly want you know yes we have 24 hours i'm sure sure if we all sit and take accountability of how many times you spend a day, you can, whatever it is that you want to find, I'm sure your phone tells you, hey, you spent five, six hours on Instagram today

Starting point is 01:55:53 or social media today. You can do a lot of shit with that because again, it's just scrolling, right? But things that you care about, you find time for it. So we do find time. So she comes over, I mean, kids go to daycare. They come from work. I mean, take care of that she goes to the gym go work out and by the time she comes back the kids are down you know go to bed have you seen that look in her eye before

Starting point is 01:56:14 where you're like hey i'm gonna watch the kids that happened the first week honey let me let me take the kids from you for now because uh there's some tension here i don't know what's going on no no no no no i get what you're saying no no no no not at all i mean no she watching hi i promise um no i mean no i mean if you i mean being real as fuck i mean if you are you know you know in relationship you know there are times where, I mean, again, like I said, my daughters are, like, obsessed. I can literally be sitting on the same chair. Like, both of them will be, like, all up on her. Like, and I'm like, anybody needs me?

Starting point is 01:56:55 Okay, all right. You know, and she gets mad at me. Like, what do you, like, you don't want to hang out with me. What am I going to do if I take one off? Like, you know, they cry because they all want mom. So again, she's a teacher too. So she's like, you know, I'm just over, I'm overstimulated, over-touched.

Starting point is 01:57:10 Like, you know, nope. Like, yep. Like, get away. And I, you know, you recognize things like that or not in a bad way, but like, no, you know, I know you feel good after a run. I know you feel good after working out. I know you feel good because you have this time

Starting point is 01:57:23 to just do whatever you want to do. So understanding that or what you need to be your best self is very important. I think that's just the key. And likewise, as she knows, I love running. If I go Saturday morning, I'm leaving the house like five o'clock in the morning, go to my running track, and I'm not going to be back to like nine or something on my long runs. Again, if I need to wake up three o'clock in the morning to get this run in, just being, I will do that because I know how important that is to me accomplishing a goal. And to some people, I mean, in a coaching business,

Starting point is 01:57:57 you have a lot of people that reach out and be like, but my wife is not, you know, not sharing the same goals and this and that. I mean, that's a tough conversation to have period. Uh, because I mean, you just got to find some sort of commonality to make, uh, make that goal or find a way.

Starting point is 01:58:12 The best thing that that's been told me was like, okay, um, you have to find a way to make your wife understand this is what you need to be your true self. Like it's not, I mean, again,

Starting point is 01:58:24 you can find a time, you know again you can find the time you know you can do it together whatever that form of fitness is for either of you guys that's what you need to agree on and if you i mean and because you know i mean you know how you feel if you miss a day or if you you become i mean groggy you become you know irritable like you know like that leads to bigger problem all because i'm like no no why are you. Like, you know, like that leads to bigger problem. All because I'm like, no, no, no. Why are you working out? No, right? Like, no.

Starting point is 01:58:48 Like, it's tough. I'm not going to tell people how to, you know, handle their relationship. But again, it's having that conversation. I need this to be my best version of myself. And I think any couple should want that for this significant other. She was into fitness before, right? Yeah. She was somebody who this was already part of their life.

Starting point is 01:59:09 Yeah. I think she was just starting picking that up when we met, getting into running. I mean, she ran in high school. Her dad is a runner. Her dad is a really, really good runner. The first pair of shoes that I ran in was like A6, like post. My run was her dad's old shoes. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:27 Just because I'm like, I don't know how long this thing is going to last. I don't want to invest that kind of money in it. And I'm just like, oh, let's see how that goes. Dad has run a joke. I remember, like, when she did a first half, a few halves, and has run a joke. It's like, what happened to you? Did you fall? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:40 It was like eight, like, something pace. Obviously, it's a run. It's a joke. It's like, no no I did not fall I just tried really hard yeah so I mean it's

Starting point is 01:59:47 it's it's an awesome to have that kind of support group but no she's she's definitely she was in the fitness before

Starting point is 01:59:55 you know we met which can be tough from some you know if you just kind of finding that at the same time we feel like

Starting point is 02:00:00 you know maybe one other couple is kind of doing it without the other one it's like well there's some deep conversations that probably need to have because you probably feel some type of way because this person's working uh harder than himself and you're like okay i'm not as motivated as you i mean this also you're looking way too hot right ramp it down

Starting point is 02:00:17 ladies uh if your man is looking good in the gym i guarantee you um no girls hitting on him more dudes probably telling him he looks more jacked than girls. What's your bench, bro? There was a joke I heard at a bodybuilding show. The joke was like, how many bodybuilders does it take to change a light bulb? How many? At least two. Because one is changing it, the other one is telling him how jacked he looks.

Starting point is 02:00:49 is changing it the other one is telling me i'll jack the look so again i mean again i mean there's a lot of jokes out there about like you know but dudes i mean dudes are more impressed with other dudes than females being impressed with other dudes like it's just it's just it's just the reality so bromance yeah what you got over there andrew no uh so i mean the the gogging stuff was really what i wanted to dive into but um i'm just thinking like i'm so grateful so i'm my stepdaughter came into my life when she was already four years old and i'm so grateful for that because i just had my son so he's gonna be two in january yeah and i have no idea how anybody has more than one um dude this little guy i love him to death but holy shit dude like kid and and and this is because like my wife is amazing so she takes care of like

Starting point is 02:01:30 99.99 of everything to women but it's kind of like the flip side when i come home he like he does not want to get away from me like he cannot like i can't like pry him off me like i'll run in and like dude i gotta go to I got to go to the bathroom. And he's just like, nope, you're not going anywhere. I'm like, shit. Yeah. So how do you see yourself implementing fitness for your girls? Again, I mean, because they are so impressionable, I don't plan to do anything really. I mean, again, the way, the only way I plan to implement fitness is by just showing them what dad is doing.

Starting point is 02:02:06 Show them, again, just by them running, like, oh, oh, which is like, you know, I mean, flexing, oh, strong. Like, you know, do things like that. And, you know, you see you, like, you know, working on a kettlebell. Like, I want to lift it up. Oh, it's heavy. Like, you know, again, I, the way I learn also is, again dad my dad's I mean 6'2 like 20 30 pound

Starting point is 02:02:26 40 pound dude he's a big dude so seeing him like you know seeing pictures of him working out I'm like yeah

Starting point is 02:02:32 like that guy you know it's again I mean it's to the point of like you know I mean parents if you want

Starting point is 02:02:38 I mean you don't have to force your kids just because again they already have this impressionable character or personality that are easily impressed with like things that you do because they probably see you more right and the only plan that i have really is just like keep doing what i'm doing because i

Starting point is 02:02:54 already see in them like you know the interest in like you know oh yeah i was doing single leg pistol squad like on a video something like with my daughter like the other day like like in the kitchen like because and she knows what the squad is like you know i didn't force it on her but just saw dad doing it and she's just like okay like yeah absolutely yeah i could second that because like uh we were at my parents house and they have like a pretty big old house but like he just out of nowhere spotted like an old dingy dumbbell like one of those like pink ones right that are like three pounds or whatever that's awesome and he just runs up to and he grabs it and he starts like uh goblet squatting it out of nowhere i'm like dude why the fuck did you but all right that's cool um so but one thing i did want to ask the three of you guys

Starting point is 02:03:32 um you know you had mentioned again goggins like staring at his shoes his running shoes being like fuck i don't know if i'm gonna do that today uh we hear stories about people that join a gym they sign up they're fired up and then they never go back. Something that Josh Setledge actually mentioned to me today, he was like, congratulations on obtaining the most difficult belt that you can get, which is a white belt. Because that's like the hardest one to actually get into. I was like, holy shit, that's amazing. So why do you think some people don't have it in them to like put on the shoes and go out?

Starting point is 02:04:08 What is it about the gym or whatever it is that they don't actually go into? Like how come some people do it, but some people just don't have that last little bit of something to push them to like actually follow through? So, I mean, again, I can take that back to like to coaching. So before I work with anyone, really, because one, my time is very valuable. I don't want to waste your time and I don't want to like to coaching. So before I work with anyone really, because one, I, my time is very valuable. I don't want to waste your time and I don't want you to waste my time. So you go through this conversation.

Starting point is 02:04:29 Like, why are we doing this period? Um, is it on a hundred percent proof? Like you're going to sort, I mean, sort that out. Like, I mean,

Starting point is 02:04:35 or be able to weed the people that are actually going to stick around. No, I mean, anybody can tell you when you get motivated, like you, I mean, you're like, man,

Starting point is 02:04:43 I am ready, bro. Like you find everything. And I've had clients literally pay for, like, a whole year of, like, service. Like, they show up, you know, they check in a couple of weeks and just disappear. So one thing I typically do a lot of times, like, it's, I'm like, it doesn't make any sense because that's a lot of money. I'm like, dude, you already paid for it. You just disappeared.

Starting point is 02:05:06 It blows me. I work hard for my money. And I tell clients, dude, I am after results over money. One, again, it's just stressful for me to just go through the process and just not doing what we're supposed to do. So that's why it's very important for me to make sure your why the reason why we're doing it is important so if it's just the clients oh I just want to get

Starting point is 02:05:27 shredded but why why do you want to get shredded like no because when you figure out it gets hard

Starting point is 02:05:31 like get shredded like stage ready and something you've never done before when you figure out how hard it is

Starting point is 02:05:34 you stop you know so again it comes as cliche as it sounds I mean it's the same thing like when I

Starting point is 02:05:39 you know coaching you know corporate war back in you know fossil years I you've tried to find the why the why coaching a corporate world back in fossil years.

Starting point is 02:05:48 You're trying to find the why. The why, I mean, okay, why are we doing this? What's important if you don't do this? Let's say the why can get you through anyhow. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's like, again, I cannot want this more than you. But to your point of I wish I had the perfect answer.

Starting point is 02:06:06 But I mean, the why of you doing stuff, it's important. I mean, I'm sure again, if the doctor tells you, hey, if you don't do X, Y, and Z, you're going to die tomorrow. You find a way.

Starting point is 02:06:15 You figure it out. But again, at the same point, it gets to the point where it's hard for you to figure that out. And nobody else can figure that out but you. I can't tell you why. I mean, why are you doing this? People give me all kinds of spiel for. I'm overweight.

Starting point is 02:06:32 I just don't love the reflection of what I see in the mirror. I'm like, great. At the end of the day, even guys who are shredded, that's one, you're trying to feel good in this body that you have, and you're trying to love the reflection of what you see in the mirror. Those two things are common between every shape i don't care how shredded you are jacked you are that's the key thing that you're looking for so one i cannot create that for you you have to find that and once you find that again it might get you there

Starting point is 02:06:57 but again what got you there won't keep you there so you got to find that if it's you know again a person for me i mean i see my kids I mean I'm like dude you have kids like there is no there is no impression if you have kids if you have parents out there

Starting point is 02:07:11 I mean you have kids if you a younger guy you just have a way trying to get shit like you're trying to live a little longer for possibility of your kids

Starting point is 02:07:17 or your family that love you if you don't do it for you you know do it for people that care about you or find somebody that cares about you that you want to be around okay I want to be around a little longer than supposed to and i think another reason

Starting point is 02:07:28 it's not when you get started obviously because motivation kicks in around the gate a thousand percent you run a thousand miles and you just wreck yourself for the first weekend this is just this is not for me maybe i'll try again next year but you know pump the brakes a little bit start slow we'll start somewhere you know yeah and i know you said like it's not the perfect answer but i think any answer can be the perfect answer because i'm just again i'm thinking like when you're explaining like doing the the 4x4x48 and you didn't want to stop i'm just like oh like there's nobody can understand that really like that drive and that under like that feeling of like no i want to lean more into this when there's

Starting point is 02:08:04 people that are like fuck dude i can't even you even get myself to the gym or I can't figure out my diet or whatever. It's like, what the hell? Like, what's stopping me? But I think, you know, your why is definitely more than an adequate answer. Yeah. I mean, shout out to Nick Barrow. So, again, you choose your heart, right? Your heart could be, I don't know, waking up early.

Starting point is 02:08:26 Or your heart could be, okay, tracking the calories you eat. But that can be, I mean, people are paralyzed. Like, what do you mean? Like, that's stressful for people to figure out what they eat during the day. Those are small tasks to you and I that, you know, you have an idea. You can look at a meal. Like, oh, probably, you know, whatever. But somebody that has, I mean, you have zero clue.

Starting point is 02:08:44 That's challenging for them but that could just be the small problem I think the brain also I mean it's not working to your advantage because your brain is designed

Starting point is 02:08:52 to see things on a macro level right you just you see big things that's what you're attracted to and most of the success and process

Starting point is 02:08:58 is typically in a smaller minute small detail but how do you coach yourself to do that is obviously hopefully hire somebody or talk to somebody that can reiterate that.

Starting point is 02:09:09 Do that hard thing with somebody that can do it together. You have a common goal. Again, luckily for me, I just happen to be in the same gym as other people that are doing it that I'm not doing. I'm like, oh, this is cool. And that environment fostered my level of fitness. And like I said, I don't know how that would shape my fitness if I started into the fitness of today. So trying to find, surround yourself with people that, again, you are some of the five people that are around you,

Starting point is 02:09:37 whatever that scene goes. So find that environment of people that support you. And obviously, you know, it starts at home. If you can find that support and kind of push each other. I mean, if you have kids, I mean, that's your why right there.

Starting point is 02:09:49 I mean, period. Point blank period. There's no, that is your why right there. Absolutely. Yeah. Take us on out here,

Starting point is 02:09:55 Andrew. All right. Sure thing. Make sure you guys stick around for Smiley's tip before we get out of here. But let us know what you guys think about today's conversation.

Starting point is 02:10:01 Drop those comments down below. Make sure you guys subscribe if you guys are not subscribed and hit that like button on the way out and visit powerproject.life for everything podcast related and follow the podcast at MB Power Project on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And my Instagram is at I am Andrew Z. And Seema, where are you at? Discord's down below.

Starting point is 02:10:20 And Seema Indian on Instagram, YouTube and Seema Yin Yang on TikTok and Twitter. Sham, where do people find you? Uh, seven, seven, Oconola on Iggy, on Tik TOK, uh,

Starting point is 02:10:30 semi-fit on YouTube. Um, or go society with, uh, the app, uh, company that I'm working with. So ghost society,

Starting point is 02:10:36 go G O society, go society. Yeah. Cool. I'm going to hand smelly tip off to our guests here. Uh, Sam, do you wear a heart rate monitor when you run?

Starting point is 02:10:46 I do. And how do you utilize that to help get you faster? My zone runs, my speed workouts, making sure I'm in a certain, you know, if I need to be in zone three or zone two, that tracks it. Watch doesn't, it's not 100% accurate. So, yeah, I do. What's zone two, zone three?

Starting point is 02:11:06 Zone two, zone two, like heart rate wise, uh, 140, math 180 minus my age, uh, 140,

Starting point is 02:11:12 144. That's my zone two typically. And that's most of your training's probably there. Yeah. Most of my training's probably there. It's the exception of the sprint workouts. Uh, the,

Starting point is 02:11:21 uh, a hundred minute repeats. I have to keep a certain pace that I'm, you know, pushing a little bit harder on. But that's, yeah, that's typically, I mean, that's the only time I actually use it because, again, data is key. Data is great.

Starting point is 02:11:32 But I don't want it to be like, you know, the only thing that I, you know, if I want to go for like an easy run, I know what easy run feels like. I've done enough now to know. And even though you're getting started to like your fitness journey, I mean, maybe just, you know, getting conversational piece. It's like weighing your food and stuff and tracking you don't need to do it at a certain point exactly as much because you know you have an idea or maybe but no i mean i i have it um it's i put it on when it's needed but most of my run long runs again i'm in that space now that i'm not really um you know chasing for a certain time of the marathon i just want to finish

Starting point is 02:12:03 so if i'm chasing like a specific time i have to be in a certain you know or chasing for a certain time of the marathon, I just want to finish. So if I'm chasing for like a specific time, I have to be in a certain, you know, or maybe like a heart rate threshold race or maybe I've done some threshold runs or some fatigue testing runs I have to do, which require me understanding or knowing what heart rate zone that I'm in. There you go.

Starting point is 02:12:21 That's the tip. I think a lot of times when it comes to running, again, people think that you're just going to go out there and run as fast as you can every single time. And after a while, your luck will run out with that. Maybe you will make progress. Maybe we will for a little bit in the beginning. But it seems to be a really good idea to try to put some sort of governor on your training to where it's down a little bit. I personally have been using nasal breathing.

Starting point is 02:12:44 I haven't really gotten too much into the heart rate monitor stuff yet. I see you do that. That is extremely hard. It is. Yeah, it's difficult, and you can start to adapt to it and start to get used to it. You were in my head when I did my small runs. I'm like, I'm trying to like, I just feel snot's coming out. He's really good at it.

Starting point is 02:13:05 Like I think his heart rate can be high. You know what I mean? Like mine's probably still low breathing in and out of my nose. But I think he can probably get moving pretty fast because he does it in jiu-jitsu, right? Yeah. Yeah. Wait, you tape your mouth? No, I just keep my mouth shut.

Starting point is 02:13:23 I'm just used to nasal breathing with jiu-jitsu. So I'm trying to just focus on nasal breathing while I progress at running. I'm not a great runner. But I do want to increase my speed and my threshold while just keeping it through my nose because when I breathe differently or when I go into different gears, I can then use my mouth if I need to. But that's just – again, I'm at the beginning with this shit so that's what i'm trying to do uh that that's i mean i tried i've tried a few times a lot i feel like oh snot's coming up like i'm like yeah that makes it hard yeah he gets i know it was kind of cold this morning when i was running and snot was just going everywhere it's gross i'm at mark smelly bell strength is never weak. This week, this never strength. Catch you guys later. Peace.

Starting point is 02:14:05 Cool. That was fantastic. I was like wiping it and blowing snot everywhere. Yeah, you definitely, you definitely in my head.

Mark Bell's Power Project - Sam Okunola - World Champion Bodybuilder Explains Balancing Running With Lifting || MBPP Ep. 833

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