Mark Bell's Power Project - Strongman Basics: How to Start Lifting Stones for Real-World Strength

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Want to build real-world strength that actually makes a difference? Learn how to lift stones like a true strongman! This episode of Mark Bell’s Power Project Podcast breaks down the basics of stone lifting and why it’s so different—and more rewarding—than lifting barbells or machines.Mark Bell and Nsima Inyang are joined by Caveman Daveman in Episode 1142 to explore the art of lifting sandbags, stones, and other unconventional tools. Discover how grip strength, core bracing, and endurance play massive roles in getting stronger. They also dive into the history of stone lifting, how it connects to ancient traditions, and why it’s still a powerful test of resilience today.Follow on IG Caveman Dave on IG: https://www.instagram.com/caveman.daveman/🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWER to save 20% off site wide, or code POWERPROJECT to save an additional 5% off your Build a Box Subscription!🩸 Get your BLOODWORK Done! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com/PowerProject to receive 10% off our Panel, Check Up Panel or any custom panel, and use code POWERPROJECT for 10% off any lab!Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1Pumps explained:   ➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!FOLLOW Mark Bell➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybellFollow Nsima InyangFollow Nsima Inyang ➢ Ropes and equipment : https://thestrongerhuman.store➢ Community & Courses: https://www.skool.com/thestrongerhuman➢ YouTube : https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=enFollow Andrew Zaragoza➢ Podcast Courses and Free Guides: https://pursuepodcasting.com/iamandrewz➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz/➢ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@iamandrewzChapters:0:00 Safe lifting techniques for stones and sandbags4:37 Train your brain for strength and pain tolerance6:10 Importance of grip strength for performance9:23 Grip strength and wrist mobility connection11:07 Alternative strength training methods14:30 Push-up variations to reduce joint pain15:50 Home workouts with simple tools18:28 Adjusting grip for heavy lifts19:47 Effective stone lifting techniques22:35 How motivational videos boost training23:58 Differences between sandbags and barbells26:56 Strength traditions across cultures28:36 Core bracing for better lifting31:28 Building endurance for stone lifts32:56 Staying calm when lifting stones35:44 Stone lifting as resilience training37:04 Stones vs. barbells: unique challenges39:53 Walking with weights for strength41:14 Heavy carries and sprints for fitness44:02 Breathing tips for heavy lifting45:22 Breathing exercises for endurance athletes48:34 Ancient stones and cultural history50:07 Respect for stone lifting traditions53:01 Stone lifting as a social activity54:25 Functional training and injury prevention57:17 Mobility’s role in advanced lifting58:40 Basque stone lifting traditions1:01:45 Sled dragging and deadlift strength1:03:23 Exploring global stone lifting styles1:06:18 Transition from hockey to stone lifting1:07:38 Growing community of stone lifters1:10:30 Strength vs. lifting unusual stones1:12:04 Unique strengths in practical lifting1:15:04 Boost testosterone through lifestyle1:16:30 Health benefits of strength training1:19:32 Kids’ natural movement for strength1:20:50 Camaraderie in stone lifting1:23:41 Adapting to unique stone shapes1:29:01 The culture of hockey fights1:31:43 True meaning of strength#PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

When it comes to, you know, like lifting some of these sandbags, lifting some of these stones, a lot of people are scared of their back positioning. Sure. They try to get into these things. What have you noticed with your back? A stone or a sandbag is not a barbell. The weights are not comparable. It's nothing like that. There's a fail safe built into stones that I've found because the reality is for the most people, your backs are going to be stronger than your wrists. And so you're not going to blow your back out because your wrists are going to go first. You are going to be stronger the more

that you can breathe and brace and especially through movement. Now when you're lifting a sandbag or stone there there are various stages of lift and as you move through those stages of lift you're going to have to adjust your positioning you're gonna have to adjust your brace. It looks like there's like a lot of like internal like almost pressure that you need to build. That's exactly it we know that our hands are rooted to everything in our body right like they've done the studies the harder you grip a barbell the more neuromuscular signals are sent We have to talk about his wrist though. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was on camera

Yeah, I think I'm gonna scrape in this now. I've never seen like that fucking when you did that like this guy here Yeah, and there's like I can see where it goes in you could drink a take a shot out of that That's developed bro. I want to take like a little matchbox car and like go over the jump right here. It's like there's a big jump in your forearm. Thank you so much guys. I mean, it's one thing to have, we see a lot of people with meaty forearms. We've got a lot of people that come on here

that are strong and all kinds of stuff, but you have like some different layers to your forearm and wrist. What are some things you've been doing for that? Cause I think it looks kind of cool. Just a lot of it came from originally steel bending. Like I really, when COVID hit, I- Oh yeah, steel bending.

Yeah. Me and Seymour are doing that all the time. I did a bunch of that this morning. Yeah, no, it's awesome. It was huge. Cause I, when COVID hit and all the powerlifting and strongman competition shut down, I was like, okay, well, what is it that I can do?

Well, first of all, to be quiet. Cause I have young children. I couldn't be banging deadlifts around the garage when I had kids napping all throughout the day. So I got into steel bending as a way to strengthen my grip for strongman competitions. And it kind of- Try to stay a little closer to the microphone.

Yeah, of course. There we go. And it kind of took on its own from there, but it just helped my hands and grip in ways that I couldn't imagine. Then when it came time to do stone lifting, it was never my wrist strength that stopped me from lifting a stone. What kind of steel are you bending? Like are you bending nails or something?

Or what do you? Yeah, it's a whole, like it's actually a whole thing. There's different websites you can order products from and they have basically what it is like leaderboards. So instead of having competition where everybody is at the same time, it's an international thing. You can order steel from Germany or from the UK.

What are some of these websites? Horito is a really good one David horns world of grip. I have you guys heard of David horn? I don't believe so Okay, so he's a UK strength legend like for instance when Eddie Hall. Sorry David horn. Yeah, no, no, it's that's fair enough, but he's So when Eddie Hall won 2017 world's strongest man He went to David to help him with his grip. David's the guy that actually invented grip sport, like period, back in the eighties. And he's in his sixties now and he's- I'm writing that name down.

I can't forget it. It's not good for me to not know someone's name that's like that. He is more than just grip though, stone lifter, he's done, he's a strength historian too. Like he buys old, old, old books. The guy is a genius and just a gentleman, but he has a lot of great steel and you can do online competitions through

him through a bunch of people. And so when COVID hit and there was no chance to get together and actually have competitions, it was something you could do online with people from all over the world. And it's pretty cool. So there's different types of bolts and steel and horseshoes. I got big into horseshoe bending and snapping, which was just gnarly and painful. I did one, just, you can see me holding it up right there. That was a bare-handed bend. I did just a few weeks ago, I hadn't touched one

in, I think, like three years or something like that, and was still able to hard it with no wraps on because you usually use wraps, but when you do it bare-, it kind of really changes it. It's quite painful. This takes your whole body. I mean, it looks like there's like a lot of like internal like almost pressure that you need to build.

That's exactly it. And that's what's kind of neat because if you think about all strength sports, at least that I can think of, there's always a load, right? Powerlifting, you got the barbell. If you're doing pull-ups, your body is low. If you're doing push-ups, the body is a load. A piece of steel weighs essentially nothing, right? Powerlifting, you got the barbell, if you're doing pull-ups, your body's low, if you're doing push-ups, the body's a load. A piece of steel weighs essentially nothing, right? And some of these bolts are rated at hundreds and hundreds of pounds, and you have to find a way to recruit that strength from inside of you, right? And so it's a whole different kind

of aspect than most strengths for it, which is really, really cool. It also hurts like hell. And so you actually have to train your brain, because we obviously have feedback loops on our body that says, this hurts, stop doing what you're doing. And you have to train that feedback loop to say, this hurts, I'm not getting hurt. You have to learn the difference. And so when you do that, you kind of unlock a whole new layer of strength,

because you've now retrained your brain on tolerating pain and discomfort, which allows you to just get stronger overall. And you're talking about like pain at the sites of which you're bending, like pain in the fingers, pain at the hands, or are you talking about more stuff too? Yeah, mostly that.

It's pretty localized, but then again, when you go to, for instance, with the horseshoe there, when you have to apply that pressure on your thigh, it's just brutal, right? And so much of it is in your hand, but your hands are also so directly linked to your central nervous system. And when your central nervous system starts getting fatigued,

your body wants to shut down. So you have to learn to just push right through that. And yeah, it was super helpful for me. I think it helped me learn a lot about strength in general. And again, just unlocking that ability to push through the discomfort and retrain your brain to go, you know what, that's okay. It's just discomfort. We can deal with that. What about like opening like jars and shit like that? Like, I imagine like that that's probably gotten easier for you with all this, all this strength that you've been messing with. But like, are there like things around the house that you just look at and you're like,

I could use that as like a, you know, something in the garage as like a strength tool almost. Because I'm imagining like if you do load up something that has a really wide jar, you know, you probably fill it with weight or something and carry it and do various things with it. Yeah, grip strength, there's basically limited ways to train your grip, right? Like if you look at a lot of grip competitions, and I'm not shooting grip competitions

in any way at all, but there's some of the implements get pretty wild, like you're picking up a half penny and stuff, like our grip is so complex, there's so many ways to train it. And some are maybe more efficient than others, some are just a test of strength, but yeah, you can train anything. Yeah. There's David right there. The guy is just, he's unbelievable. What he has done and can do. He's done all sorts of sports from strong men and all sorts of weightlifting. They have much different weightlifting competitions over in Europe that

we don't have. He also like tug of warar, it's a competitive Tagawar over there that's huge. Not here, but yeah, he's a really neat dude. I'm curious about this. Have you noticed anything gets stronger as you've developed your grip that like you just didn't expect those links? As I've been just working on more hand stuff, more wrist stuff, et cetera, it's just kind of shown me even developing sandbag strength, it's just kind of shown me how the strength here is like it links to certain aspects of my shoulder.

Certain things in my back are getting stronger. I can feel when I grab something, certain levels of activation that I just never felt before are developing. So what have you noticed through the years? It's hard to pin it down to one thing in particular, but we know that our hands are rooted to everything in our body, right?

They've done the studies, the harder you grip a bar barbell the more neuromuscular signals are sent here And so it just the stronger hands are the stronger body as you look at a farmer It's why a hundred a hundred and sixty pound farmer is just stronger in ways than you can imagine, right? I've done jujitsu with it like guys who like have that type Yeah work on farms and stuff and their grip is something else like you just can't even break their grip. Sometimes it's ridiculous Yeah, I grew up wrestling and you never wanted to wrestle a farmer because they're just tough in ways you can't imagine. And so much of it comes down to grip, right? Everything is linked to grip. And yeah, especially the like the lower arm, people talk about grip and

they're thinking about their fingers and thumb. It's all your lower arm. It's your ability to manipulate the world around you. Like I equated to having good grip strength is like having like track shoes versus a pair of runners when you're actually going on a track. You want to be able to dig into that track or using football cleats on a field versus a pair of sneakers. It's your ability to attach yourself to the world around you. The harder you can grip it, the stronger you're going to be. And if you grab onto something and you feel powerful, that's such a great sign and that

feels so good. But there are times when you grab onto something you kind of feel halfway defeated before you even started the process. Like a fat bar, double overhand grip deadlift or something kind of comes to mind where you're like, this is gonna be really hard to finish this lift. And you can see how connected it is,

but I remember when it's powerlifting, a lot of guys would say, oh, I don't really train my grip because it's not really a problem. And it's like, well, it still doesn't hurt to have your grip be stronger. Like there's not a situation where you want your grip to be weaker.

I understand you just ripped 750 off the ground. Like you're strong, but what about, you know, what about the possibility? Like you might already be lined up to deadlift 800 pounds? You just don't know it yet. You're not allowed to put your hamstrings and your lower back under that amount of tension because your hands won't allow for it. Yeah.

Oh, for sure. It's a limiting factor for people in all sorts of strength sports, I find. And also when you look at powerlifting grip strength training is a lot of times, at least when I was powerlifting and my coach was fantastic, world-class powerlifter, but it would just be the hold the bar for longer at the top of a deadlift. So you're just looking at one element of grip training and you're not looking at radial ulnar deviation or supination pronation. There's so many different elements to, like, I think we use the term grip and people think

about fingers. I think we need to think about grip as everything from the elbow down, because that's when you get the real strength. Yeah. Right? Because that's when you get the real strength. So you could have the strongest, like you have this hand grip right here. You could build your hand grip up and that's cool, but how much can you actually rotate? Right? These are, it's different things and I think we need to expand what we mean when we say

grip. And what's your grip feel like if your back is completely rounded over and you're kind of stuck in this position for a little bit, the fingertips might open up more and more. And we've had a couple guests on here talk about grip strength before, and you might be able to bear down on something with a pretty good grip,

but the second your wrist has to be articulated in a different way, I mean, just lock horns with a really awesome proficient arm wrestler. And you'll feel what I'm talking about. You'll feel, you'll be like, oh, I clearly lost. And you didn't even start doing anything yet. Just the way they grab you, you're like, I'm defeated. I'm in a totally vulnerable position right here

and they're just going to destroy me. Yeah, wrists are everything though, as far as I'm concerned. As soon as you step outside- I love this conversation. Yeah, good. I'm so happy you're here. So do I, man.

The two and a half hour wrist podcast. Yes. But yeah, once basically. We're the only ones that are gonna listen back to it, but that's okay. Once you step outside of gripping a barbell or doing a dead hang or something, that's when you realize you do need rest, right?

Like, yes, you can get away with, like you'd said, power lifting with just having that one type of wrist strength or grip strength. But as you get out, there's so much more than that, at least in my experience. I think it's fascinating that there's, we have this like protocol. We got, we got a protocol for hypertrophy. We have a protocol for strength and it's rare to see anybody like bounce outside of that. You're like, no, five by five works great for strength. And then a bunch of different versions of a five by five,

you know, sets of, you know, maybe 10 sets of three or something like that. But it kind of falls with, it falls under like 30 repetitions total for a workout, right? When it comes to, when it comes to hypertrophy, there's very specific protocols.

You need X amount of exercises, two to three exercises. You need three to four sets and you need 10 to 12 reps. It's like everything's sort of like boxed in. But you're over here with these giant ass forearms looking like Popeye and you're talking about doing hundreds and thousands of repetitions it sounds like. Yeah, depending on what you're doing. So if you were doing, when I was steel bending

and there's something called steel snapping, right? Where it's instead of just bending the bolt, you're doing. So if you were doing, when I was steel bending and there's something called steel snapping, right? Where it's instead of just bending the bolt, you're bending the bolt over and over and over again until you snap it. And that can take a long time sometimes since you are getting a ton of max effort reps on it, right? Or again, we were talking about the rice bucket. The rice bucket is fantastic.

You can be getting 50, it's not really a rep when you're moving your hands around, but the point is it's flushing blood to it. So there's, there are so many ways to work your body and sure the hypertrophy, there's certain sets and reps that we know work, but there's so many ways to get strong. And like, I like to say that if somebody tells you that they have the way to get strong,

they're trying to sell you something because there are so many ways to get to a particular goal. Right? And especially with grip, isometrics are huge. Like I did the Denny stones. You're not doing a lot of reps on that. You have to work on that isometric hold, right? That's one rep.

That's one really, really hard rep for time. So there are many ways to get there. And you know, we had pulled up, you're doing a, you're doing a pull on some plates with this attachment, then you put that attachment up and you also were doing some pull ups with that. So, you know, what is like, where do you get some of these things?

Do you make them? Yeah, it came from my brain. Yeah, no, what is like, where do you get some of these things? Do you make them? Yeah, it came from my brain. Yeah, no, it's just, I just try and think of what is the thing I want to get better at. And again, with stone lifting, there's not really a lot of protocols to it. This stuff is, it's been around forever

and I'm sure we'll get into it. But at this level, it's still quite new that people are getting into the training of it. And so I just think of, if I want to get better at my wrist hold, what do I do? I take a rock, I drill a hole in it, and now I have a tool that allows me to specifically practice on a stone. I've had times where I had 130 pound rock, I put it on my squat rack and I did pull ups off of my squat rack with a stone because now I'm training that exact grip.

Yeah, this right here you can see. So that's a rock you're pulling on against plates. Yeah. Yeah, so you just, it's pretty easy to make. I put a video out for people because I posted this of me doing it and I got a lot of feedback from people. And so I just made a quick video showing people

how to make it. And then I'm having dozens and dozens of people tag me in videos and they- Oh, nice. Because they use it. It's so simple, man. I'm going to make one of these. It's so easy to do, right?

You just get to drop an anchor in an eye bolt and you just got to drill a hole. It costs you $2 of equipment. To your point, the articulation of your hands, right? So we know that double overhand deadlift without a hook grip is going to be way harder than either a hook grip and or one hand under, one hand over. And then we also know from like doing pull-ups, like go ahead and try to do a regular chin up with your palms facing away from you

versus doing it with your palms facing towards you versus your palms facing each other. Those are all very different and they very different aspects of your grip just by simply just moving just a tiny bit. Or take your thumb with the equation too. Wrap over like this and see how it changes for you.

And there was what the perfect push up years ago like that just kind of has a certain articulation of your arms in a particular way then you're like you go to do it you're like oh my god my elbow just hurt. Yeah that changes things huge. We used to have to do a ton of pushups in recruit class for the fire department and guys start banging out. I'm like, guys, turn your elbows in. It's gonna change where it puts it

and makes it so much easier because you're gonna fatigue a lot less easy. Oh, this makes me so curious. Are you one of those people who can do wrist pushups? Like go like this and then do pushups like that? I don't know, we can try afterwards though. Good question. Have you ever done wrist pull-ups before?

Like, you mean like this? Where you, yeah, lock your wrist and then do pull-ups like that. I should try, so you do those? I'd never heard of pull-ups before. Like, you mean like this? Where you, yeah, lock your wrist and then do pull-ups like that. I should try, so you do those? I'd never heard of it until a few months ago and the guy at work, we were in the gym, he's like, have you ever tried those? And I was like, no man, let's give her a go.

I got five my first time, which was decent. It's hard. Did you feel a lot of like, your forearm? Oh, totally, yeah, yeah. Yeah, everything in your flexors just really tightens up, but it's tricky, but yeah, we can play around after. It's pretty, it's fun. Where do we start to make these big giant forearms?

Yeah, and what are some, like, along with that, what are some implements that you think are like, okay, y'all can easily get this? Because I know some people don't want to drill a hole into a rock. Yeah, I don't blame them. But maybe they want to buy some stuff that could be essential.

I think sledgehammers are huge. It's simple. Like, I'm not going to say I'm the busiest guy around, but I have young children, I'm a shift worker, I have things to do. And so a lot of times I can't get a big workout in. And so by the time the kids are in bed, I'm just too tired to do anything. I'll sit down and watch TV. I'll have a eight pound sledgehammer and I'll just do wrist rotation. So there's ways that you can work basic things. I'm on the right track.

Yeah. Well, you just do it. Well, yeah, exactly what you're doing right now while we're chatting and stuff, I'll do where I'm watching shows, right? But I think that sledgehammers are huge. You can get an eight pound sledgehammer, chop it down. And if you're doing supination, pronation with it, radial ulnar deviation, you're going to serious, seriously build up your forearms. I like this idea too.

And you're not just, just buy a sledgehammer. Don't buy a fitness device. Just go and buy a sledgehammer. You don't fitness device just buy to go and buy a sledgehammer you know it's kind of more fun yes okay yeah I see what you see a sledgehammer buy an axe buy like some cool shit that's my McGurber training video you just pulled up up there get some main points that's great it's just fun there but yeah there's there's so many ways to build strength in ways that you don't need to buy equipment. Of course it's fun to buy nice equipment, but you can get stuff for cheap, real cheap and have a good time.

The question about that, what do you like to do? Because a lot of people are like, okay, give me the sets and reps for this, but do you just sit there, you just do this for time until you burn out? What do you think about what you're doing? Well, it depends on what you're doing, right? Because if you're putting a huge isometric strain on your wrist, you've got to be careful of your tendons and ligaments, right? So we're talking about the point where you need to build up

and develop those tendons and ligaments first. I would never recommend, just like anything, if somebody was new to deadlifting, you wouldn't recommend that they go in for a max right off the bat, right? You need to develop the strength. And again, to develop the strength, especially in tendons and ligaments, takes a lot of reps.

Also guys, you go too hard with this, like you mentioned, you could stress fracture. I've stress fractured this shit because I was going too hard a little bit. So it can happen. There you go. Yeah, of reps. Also guys, you go too hard with this, like you mentioned, you could stress fracture. I've stress fractured this shit because I was going too hard a little bit. So it can happen. There you go. Yeah, high reps. High reps is an important thing to do, right?

And once you've developed that, you're going to feel yourself getting much stronger. And I think a lot of training can be quite intuitive. If it's starting to feel easier, go a little harder. And like, I don't know, it doesn't have to be anything prescribed in that way, but yeah, grip is a complex thing. And again, I wouldn't know, it doesn't have to be anything prescribed in that way, but yeah, grip is a complex thing.

And again, I wouldn't call myself an expert like you, but one thing I've noticed is I've just been doing some of this stuff more, is like play around with how hard you grip some of these implements, like how hard you grip the sledgehammer. Because one thing I've noticed is like, the harder you grip it and do these rotations, okay, it's a little bit easier, but if you loosen your grip in certain areas and then you let it stretch, you'll feel different areas of the wrist, like stress a little bit. And that can be kind of like,

I look at that as like, okay, that stresses. I'm going to see if I can continue doing this with a slightly lesser grip. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. And you need to consider how hard you're gripping things and everything, right? So a lot of people like to do a dead hang

when they're training the grip. Great, very simple thing to do. But if I weigh 215 pounds, if I'm doing a max dead hang when they're training the grip. Great, very simple thing to do. But if I weigh 215 pounds, if I'm doing a max dead hang, I only need to grab with like 220 pounds with a force. If I'm max squeezing on that, I'm gonna burn out much quicker too. So you can change it. If you want to work on that absolute crushing strength, sure, let's squeeze as hard as we can. If we're going for time, then hold off a little bit. Find, it's like a clutch on a car. How hard do I actually need to grip it in order to stay here? And that comes into play with a lot of different types of training,

especially as we get into discussing stone lifting, carrying and stuff. That is one of the most major, major tips that it was ever given to me is those kinds of things. You got to learn how much pressure to apply and when to back off a bit because you don't always need to go 100%. I'm so sad right now. I just feel like an inferior man. You know, like you're doing all this manly stuff like you're picking up like a railroad tide. Yeah. Yeah. That is hard, man. That I was surprised to get that. Actually, I kind of did you just like drive by that and see that and like, I'm going to swing back around and pick that up. Yeah. So there was, there's

construction, a railroad and they're like, Hey, we're using that. They weren't. It was done. That's the only reason. I probably shouldn't have that. So this was actually interesting how I got my first lift on this. I never thought I stood a chance in hell on lifting this thing. I had it in my gym. I had some guys coming over to train. It's 225 pounds.

The amount of thumb pressure you need on that is just, it's sickening and I couldn't even budget. And so I took it outside my garage and then the guys came over and we had a good workout and I took them outside and showed them that. And I was like, yeah, this is really tricky. And this one really big, really strong dude named Ari went down and he popped it up right off the ground. And I went, okay, I didn't think that was possible.

So I went down reach and then I picked it up six inches and I'm like, okay, this is possible. He's like, wait a minute, hold on, were you double overhanding? Cause I switched grip. So he switched grip and got it. My brain went, okay, this is possible. He's like, wait a minute, hold on, were you double overhanding? Cause I switched grip. So he switched grip and got it. My brain went boom, that's doable. And then I picked it right up after that.

So it's amazing. Double hand. Oh, no. I didn't know he'd switch grip though. I thought he'd double overhead. I'm like, okay, if he can do it, I'm going to do this now. Right. It was one of those things.

And then I got it. And then I realized after he had switched grip, which is way easier. And so it's just interesting with our brains, again, like I think most people are so much stronger than they realize. I truly believe that. I think that there's so much strength in everyone, but they just need to learn how to unlock it

a lot of the time. Even my mother-in-law the other day, she just turned 77 and I had her in the gym at my home. And she was like, oh, I can only do like the 15s on this. She was doing like a stiff leg deadlift, you know? And I was like, you know what? I was like, I can have you pick up that 50 pound dumbbell really easy.

And she's like, oh, just the one, you know, a dumbbell? And I said, yeah. So I had her pick up 30 and 35 and 40 and stuff first. But I just, I kicked the dumbbell up so she just could grab the kind of flat part of it. And she did some like squats and some deadlifts with it. And then she worked her way up to 50 pounds. And so just that small, it's interesting,

just a small change in positioning or the small change of an implement. Like she was actually using dumbbells before. She was just holding them conventionally and she was holding 15 pounds per hand, then I had her just take 50 pounds and kind of squat it up. And so just these kind of, it's fun to know, like there's so many different ways,

like what you did with the sledgehammer out there in the gym, and you're like, oh, I just like to kind of hold these and try to balance the weight. Like there's so many different ways that we can move these weights around. So many different ways. And again, like you'd mentioned with your mom, a good example is at work, I have a 220 pound sandbag

I like to train with. I keep it on the bay floor, which is, I think, about 30 meters in length, and I'll do carries with it. And there's guys at work, and man, I can't tell you, these guys are so fit and so strong, but they see that, and they go and they give it a kick, or a push, and the sandbag doesn't move They're like there's no way I can even pick that up

I'm like, hold on guys and the amount of guys that I've just shown them the basics and how to lift it they're like I they don't think they're gonna be able to lift it and Their first time they lift it and carry it 60 meters You just have to show people the very basic things and how they can apply the strength that they have in them There's so many people have so much strength in them. But big aspect of strength is like neurological. You know what I mean? So it's like, and that's one of the big thing I like of what you said is literally watching

something than trying to do it. Because like, you know, when I was younger, I would before going to workout, I'd always watch and amp up videos in terms of like strength training or bodybuilding and then I'd go lift. Right? But you got to imagine like you can apply that to yourself if you're someone who trains alone, because a lot of people don't have, like, you saw your friend do it,

and then you managed to do it even though you tried it before. So hack your brain, watch some shit before you go to the gym, you know? It'll make a difference. Oh, it does make a difference. Motivation is huge, right? Yeah, I completely agree on that.

I love the attire that you're wearing, too. You're wearing jeans and boots every time. Is this just because you're in Canada and you're freezing your ass off or what? Honestly, the jeans came out of, just from when I started stone lifting, because it just shreds you up, right? Like my forearms are a callus from lifting stones,

but they were shredding my legs, so I started wearing jeans and it worked well. Oh yeah, you literally do have a callus on there. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, and like your legs get shredded pretty bad, right? And so I was like, well, I'm going to wear jeans to protect my legs.

And then I realized that jeans in no way impair my movement and they only help me. So I just, I wear jeans when I work out all the time. And boots, like it's these boots I have on right now. I think boots are great for a lot of training. They're flexible front to back and stable side to side. It works for me. Tom Haviland style. Yeah, Tom's the man. He's such a nice guy. Let me ask you this, man. When it comes to, you know, like lifting some of these sandbags,

lifting some of these stones, a lot of people are scared of their back positioning when they try to get into these things. So have you, what have you noticed with your back? And how does it compare to lifting barbells? Well, first of all, it's very different than barbell. And I think that that's a mistake a lot. A stone or a sandbag is not a barbell. The weights are not comparable. It's nothing like that.

And I actually don't do a ton of sandbag. Most of my training is stones. I've done some sandbags. I think sandbags are great. And I would encourage anybody and everybody to give it a go. It's much easier to come by than a lot of stones. I've done some sandbags. I think sandbags are great and I would encourage anybody and everybody to give it a go. It's much easier to come by than a lot of stones, but there's a fail safe built into stones that I've found because the reality is for the most people, your backs are going to be stronger than your wrists, right? So it's very, very rare that you will have somebody who's got these unbelievably strong wrists, but a weak back. And so you're

not going to blow your back out because your wrists are going to go first. I've held- You're saying wrists, because you have to kind of curl your hands underneath it? Yeah, you got to hold it. Like it's every stone has a different, like I call stones a strength puzzle, because every single one of them is different.

And what you actually have to do in the position, you have to have a stone. And as it moves up your body from off the ground into your lap, to your chest, to your shoulder, you have to figure out for that stone, how to get it up and everyone is different. But the point being that the hand holds can be very, very tricky sometimes and your back is not going to give up. Is it a handholds?

What do you mean? Well, that just depends, right? So some stones you could hold it like this. Some might have to be over under like it just every single one. And that's part of the fun is you got to crack the puzzle on every single one. I see what you're saying. And what he's demonstrating for people that aren't watching is that his hands are kind of cupped together

and he's cupping underneath the stone. You can have a two side grip, you can have an over under grip. And like there's just, sometimes you can only get a little tiny bit of your fingers on it depending. And that's when you have to require a lot of squeeze. But our backs are very strong. The position that you're in, like I'm bent over but I'm hinged more at the hip so my back is still relatively flat and like any training if you start the lift and your back doesn't change,

where you get injured is when you go to yank it and your back changes shape once you apply pressure. If you're holding that position then applying applying the pressure, you're fine. What about the biceps? Well, you know, so I know that sometimes blowing out a bicep can be a thing with some of these implements. Usually atlas stones, because they're entirely different.

Atlas stones require a lot more bicep, and because you have tachy, you can grip it much better, right? So tachy on Atlas stones is, if you try an Atlas stone with or without t tacky, you're in two different situations. Whereas because of that, you have a lot more bicep involvement versus natural stones. You should be able to, well, again, it depends on the stone.

Some of the stones are rounded, then it's gonna be more like an Atlas, but usually you can lock your wrist and lock your mid traps and your biceps are just kind of there, right? An Atlas stone is usually like a more rounded stone. Yeah, yeah it is. Like there's some natural stones, like there's one outside of a castle in Scotland,

it's called the Chieftain stone, and that's 250-ish pounds of basically glass granite, and that is very difficult on the biceps. But yeah, usually stones are not that round. What an interesting thing, like how certain ethnicities, certain countries, certain areas have like these traditions of like movement, you know, whether it's lifting stones or other various things, like this idea of like

picking up these stones is interesting. My personal belief from everything I've learned is I think it's actually part of the human condition. And the reason I say that is because strength, this modern era we're in, strength is the least important it's ever been. Yeah. All like, you know, there's certain professions

where you need it, but the general person all throughout history used to be much stronger than us. Right now we never had the bodybuilding freaks that we see now. People were never built like that, but the average person, strength was everything. Strength was your job. It allowed you to marry certain people.

It allowed you to move up in the clans. And so, as you learn more about the research and the stuff, all throughout the world, all throughout time, people lifted stones. Because men have always wanted to test themselves, right? There's clans and scolons. You can move up to being a chieftain's bodyguard if you could lift a stone. With the Vikings, you get a better spot on the boat if you could lift a certain stone. There, it was your job interview. And so this stuff is, it's everywhere. There's so much more research coming out and it is a huge part of the human condition all

throughout time. It's just so fascinating. Yeah, it's directly linked to us. Before we continue on that path, I wanted to ask you about stones and sandbags again, because you mentioned the idea where it's like, you have to have just enough grip, right? Just enough tension in your hands, not too much. I've also noticed, like, when you're bracing when lifting some of these things,

you also have to have just enough tension you're creating within your core. Because a lot of times when lifting a barbell, you just, psh, I'll have to hold as tight as possible when squatting or deadlifting. And you don't necessarily think of how much tension do I need to create so I can lift and move because you're lifting and then carrying this object. If you're too tight, it's going to limit how smoothly you can move.

Like I saw you lift a stone around something and just, you know, multiple times. So what have you learned about that? Well, how do I put it? Early on when I started powerlifting, I learned that you need to be able to breathe and brace at the same time, right? Maybe not even just specifically for powerlifting, but more for strength training in general, right? You are going to be stronger the more that you can breathe and brace, and especially

through movement. Now, when you're lifting a sandbag or stone, there are various stages of lift. And as you move through those stages of lift, you're going to have to adjust your positioning, you're gonna have to adjust your bracing, right? Especially like if you think about shouldering a sandbag or a stone, you're gonna have one hip off

and you're gonna be changing the shape of your core. And so you're not gonna be able to brace the same as you would normally. So you have to learn your body and learn the positionings in order to brace. And part of the bracing aspect as well is that You have to learn your body and learn the positionings in order to brace. And part of the bracing aspect as well is that you need to know how to let off with it when you're walking with something, right?

Because if you have, like I'm training for the Huss-Fell Stone, my brother and I are going to be going to Iceland this year and going to try and carry the 410 pound Huss-Fell Stone and that's 98 feet. That's nearly twice my body weight. And when you're moving under load like that, you need to learn how, again, it's like a double clutch. You need to learn how much to lean back and be forward because the more that you take on your chest, the more you're going to have to breathe, brace while being crushed.

And you also have to know how much to squeeze because again, like with the dead hang, I don't want to have, let's say when I'm leaning back, 200 pounds are in my arms, 200 is on my body. I don't also want to row in another 200 I'm leaning back, 200 pounds are in my arms, 200's on my body. I don't also wanna row in another 200 pounds and now I have that much more on my stomach that I'm trying to breathe, brace and move through. So I'm not sure if that answered your question or not. I'm sorry. No, it did, it did.

Yeah, the squeezing aspect is an interesting one too, cause it's like, I don't know how much of that you get like in traditional exercise or traditional lifting, but you do have to, especially if you're using a sandbag, if it's maybe not full all the way, there might be parts of it that you get in traditional exercise or traditional lifting, but you do have to, especially if you're using a sandbag, if it's maybe not full all the way, there might be parts of it that you have to bear down on in a way that maybe just isn't normally common in the gym. Yeah, it is different, and it's also,

so one of the things that I found is really, really cool about stone lifting is there's an element of grit to it, and grit, you don't quite get to the levels with grit with other types of strength training. I'm not saying you don't have to have grit. That's not at all what I'm saying, but he's calling you all week. No, not at all.

Like we were talking earlier, Mark, about how long does a max effort deadlift take? Maybe six seconds before you maybe pass out, and max effort and the deadlifts people can do are unbelievable. I'm not disputing or putting any of that down, but some max effort stone lifts are 40 plus seconds, right? And so you really need to be able to be under tension for that amount of time.

And sometimes grit training is one of the best ways to actually level up your strength training when it comes to stones and sandbag. And that's why I'll do a lot of holds on my chest and working under time and time under tension is I think one of the best ways to actually get stronger without having to develop more muscle. Do you mess around with any kind of breathing in particular when you're doing these exercises or you just try to breathe whatever way

kind of comes natural and feels good? So I find one of the things I've been doing the last few months that I found works really, really well is that, let's say for instance, your goal is to hit whatever stone it is up to your shoulder, right? You have these different positions that you have to get a stone is that you're hiking it up your chest. So if I get it off my lap, what I'll do is I'll hike it up

into my chest and I'll hold for say five or 10 seconds, I'll set a metronome. And so I will learn how to breathe and brace in that position for five seconds. And then I'll set a metronome. And so I will learn how to breathe and brace in that position for five seconds and then I'll do it again. And then as many hikes as it takes me to get to my shoulder, I'm having to pause to find out the power positions, how I need to breathe, how I need to be positioned

to actually get it to that goal. And so by doing that, you're working on your endurance, you're working on your grit, you're working on your ability to breathe and brace through those very positions. Because to get a stone from the ground to your shoulder, that's a massive range of motion, right? And you have to change your positioning, your bracing, everything all throughout that entire pattern. So if you break it down step by step and learn the positions, your strongest and

all throughout that, I have found that's helped a ton. I would assume too, one aspect is like being able to kind of stay calm in those positions because when I see somebody new that's starting to lift like lift a stone they'll get it here and then They'll start to panic. Yeah, but you're spending like you mentioned like 40 seconds just getting it up to your shoulder potentially I couldn't agree more. That's a really good point we have a site we call the Edmonton stones of strength that we've started because Not everyone has the access to go on trips and do historical stone lifting. So I was inspired by a guy named Ryan Stewart,

who is just an unbelievable stone lifter researcher. He started something called the Utah Stones of Strength. And we wanted to simulate that. We set up a site down in our river valley. We have a beautiful river valley where I'm from in Edmonton. It's like 27 and a half thousand acres right in the middle of our city, which is huge. And luckily I found a whole bunch of stones

right by my place. And yeah, there our city, which is huge. And luckily I found a whole bunch of stones right by my place. And yeah, there we go. There it is. We have events down there and we train down there and we get a lot of new people coming to try out stone lifting, which is awesome. And exactly what you were saying there is that once they get it to their lap, you can see their eyes flash. I did it and they go, oh shit, now what?

Right? Cause they panic. And so I show people, no, hold on. I want you to get the stone into your lap and I want you to drop your ass to grass and I want you just to sit there, okay? Because you could probably spend 30, 45 seconds with a really big weight there

because that stone is stacked over top of your tibia and fibia, right, at that point. You're not supporting that weight. So you have to get people to slow it down and just chill out. Yeah, it's tough to kind of hang out in that position, but it doesn't really feel like you're working at that point. Like it does feel like a good opportunity to maybe rest

and then think about how you're gonna switch your hands. It looks like in some of these videos, you're kind of breaking these down into like different pieces. Is that kind of what you're doing? So you can learn exactly like when you're gonna switch and get your hands under and it looks like you're doing some marching and stuff like that. Yeah, that's again, just to this video here

is just to work on the time under tensions I mentioned because once you get comfortable and uncomfortable positions, you're just gonna be a better stone lifter because it requires that, right? Like it'd be no different than with the type of running you're doing. I'm sure it was at the very,

at the start it was very uncomfortable, very difficult, right? Like I come from a family, like my parents have done I think 25 or 26 Ironmans between them. And you just see with the endurance side of things, they get really tough at being uncomfortable, right? And so this is just the strength version of that, where you have to just get really comfortable in these positions.

I think I'll just, like one of the cool is, I don't think some people realize how resilient the body can be in some of these positions with load. You know what I mean? Like this, that's not you. No, this is the young guy that I'm coaching. That's Logan, yeah. He's just like, I don't know how heavy that stone is, it looks pretty heavy, but he's just breathing

in that squat going up and down with that load on top of him, just super comfortable. And it's like, if you can get comfortable with that, you're pretty damn resilient. You are man. Our bodies are so much more resilient than people think. And that video that you just showed is one of my favorite things I like about stone lifting is that I think people often get too caught up with weight.

Like how much can you do? How much can you do? And with stone lifting, the best lifts I've ever seen are people's battle with the stone. It doesn't matter how heavy it is, it's how hard you fight with that to finish the lift So really drops the ego down a little bit because they're all different and you just oh, this is Sarah. She's unbelievable. She's world-class But yeah, it's just your battle with the stone I find is much more important than the actual amount of weight that you're lifting and when you start to think about it that way It changes the way that you're gonna lift it, you it. If you're not so worried about the weight,

but you're thinking to yourself, first of all, I just wanna be able to lift this. Then once you lift it and figure out kind of the easiest way, then you start thinking, well, shit, if I flip it over the other way, it's gonna be way harder. Exactly. Yeah, well yeah, the stone, every angle is different, right?

And everyone can pick up a stone different too. I've got a buddy named Troy that I train with and he's world-class strength. And him and I will lift the same thing almost opposite. Like I'll have to have it one way in our hand. Like it's, there's infinite ways to lift it, right? And that's why it's just so fun. Every one of them is different, right?

A barbell is a barbell. Sure, there's different knurling, different lengths, different uses, but every one of these is different. And it's, yeah, it's too much fun. And that's just not even getting to the historical side of it. When you start getting into the actual stories of these, it's just, it's too much fun. And that's just not even getting to the historical side of it. When you start getting into the actual stories of these, it's just so cool. By the way, and we'll get to the history thing,

but can you kind of tell people why is it when one looks at like a 150, 200 pound stone or sandbag, why that feels and why is there so much harder to lift than a barbell? Because a lot of people lift a 200 pound barbell, they're like, what is that? It's not even two plates. Yeah.

You're right. Well, first of all, you're not lifting it, you're lifting it right from the ground, right? A barbell sits, if you have a plate on it, it's eight and three quarter inches off the ground. This is right on the ground. So your range of motion right off there is different. Barbell is meant to go over the midline of your foot, right?

That is maximum efficiency. Ideally with a barbell, you wanna minimize your range of motion for maximizing efficiency. This isn't really an option in a lot of these. Sometimes you'll have to lift this one out in front of you. Depending on the handles, you may have to lift it crooked. You may have to do an over under the grips, the everything about it, like it's just,

it's not, the weight isn't comparable. You're not talking about the two same things, right? Like everything about it is different and that's why I find it so fun. As a firefighter, you've been a firefighter for a long time and you've been doing these stones for a while. Have you noticed improvements in your fitness, in your job or in training

and stuff that you're doing for firefighting? Yeah, I would say absolutely. It carries over for sure. Anytime you're building your strength and the word unconventional is used a lot, but basically just outside of what you would call gym bro strength, barbells and dumbbells, which are great and I still do those things, right?

But it's more of a real world application of strength. There's nothing more legit in the world as, can you pick that heavy awkward thing up from right there and then move it over there? Like hydrants. Like hydrants, yeah, I lift those too, man. I made one at home, it's a 300 pound hydrant. It's a lot of fun.

You made it? Yeah, well, I bought a hydrant on Facebook Marketplace and then I got it welded, I filled it with sand and then I sprayed it actually with Flex Seal of all things because when it gets dinged up, you can just Flex Seal over it. And so there's one of me, I shouldered it a few times and yeah, it's just, again, a

fun odd object. I like lifting odd objects because it's, you know, there it is right there. It's just, it's just fun, man. It pulls you so much more forward than you can imagine. Cause it's, it's what? So top heavy? So top heavy. Yeah.

It's so top heavy that you're really, it looks like it wants to flip forward. Yeah. Yeah, it does. And so again, you're putting your body in very different positions. I have a young guy that I coach powerlifting and he's really good. He got to nationals, unfortunately got injured

so couldn't go, but he obviously knows how to squat and I got him to lift an Atlas stone. It was only 150 pound Atlas stone and he lifted it no problem. But I said, okay, now that you've lifted it, drop into a squat with it. And he couldn't get one rep on it because the way that it changes your body mechanics,

because your hips have to come back so far, it really forces you to be strong in much different ranges of motion, in different positions. What are your thoughts on, in a lot of these videos, you're like walking with these weights, or these stones and stuff like that. Yeah, what are some of your thoughts on that? Like, what does that do?

It seems like it just poses a ton of different challenges. Oh, it's brutal. It is, I hated it. I hated it so much. I was really bad at carrying, but I set myself the goal of walking the Hustafell. And so I had to force myself to learn how to do this and you got to deal with shit, right? And it is so uncomfortable, man. It, again, you're, you know, this video here is 355 pounds.

That's the weight of a black bear on your chest and you're moving with it, right? And so you really need to learn how to breathe and brace and you have to master your mind because everything in your head is telling you get this off of me. I can't breathe because it's not just that it's on your rib cage and you can't expand your rib cage, but it's pressing into your diaphragm

and it's sucking the wind out of you. So it teaches you to be tougher, man. And again, that, yeah, gets you stronger. Do you pull it in towards you a little bit intentionally to help you brace? No, not really. It depends on the shape of the stone. Like I'd mentioned before,

is you have to find out which angle works best because the further you lean back, the more weight you're taking to that stone on your body, but the more you lean forward, obviously it's gonna wanna be pulling you forward and it's gonna be a lot more demanding on your back and your arms. And so again, it's a balancing act of what you need to do

in order to master that stone, especially through movement. Cause the more you lean back, the more glutes and hamstrings you're going to be engaging. And so that can tire out and you'll even see world's strongest man competitions. The guys will be burning out carrying and they'll start doing a sidestep too, because they've just taxed everything they can do

in a forward plane. So they have to spin and go side to side. For people that hate running and don't want to sprint, I think sprinting is a great thing for people to do, but you can just mess around with these stones and walk with them. Yeah. Oh, it's huge. Your breathing is going to end up identical.

It is. Like I just did, like that's what this mark is for. In my garage the other day, I did half a kilometer with a 200 pound anvil. And so you can find ways to do it. I've carried 190 pound stone for a whole kilometer. Obviously it takes a few sets to do it. You're not doing it all at once, but you can tax those same systems.

Just in different ways. So you didn't do half a kilometer in one set. Oh God, I wish man. Oh, I was like, nah man, maybe down the road. My garage is only 7.5 meters each way. So I had to like go back and forth. I use them as a sprint though.

Like I would sprint as much as I weighed like 320 pounds or something like that. And I think in that morning I weighed like 215 and I took it down the street and I walked about a mile and a half. And it was just, it was brutal. Like towards the end of the day, I was like, I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to do a workout. I'm going to do a workout.

I'm going to do a workout. I'm going to do a workout. I'm going to do a workout. I'm going to the street and I walked about a mile and a half. And it was just, it was brutal. Like towards the end you could really feel it. But I can't imagine if I was holding something, trying to hold a weight and walk with it would be very difficult. It is difficult and the rucking is great. And again, when it comes to training for my job

is I like rucking for that purpose too, right? Because we are carrying our packs and all our equipment is very heavy and it's taxing. So it's a great way to actually train for what I need to do. This is going to be somewhat of an odd question, but you know, as you were over time developing the strength to lift these heavy stones, what's like the weirdest, the weirdest kind of fatigue adaptation that you had to get used to? You mentioned the pain that most people don't think about.

What else do most people not realize is like, this is something you're gonna get used to and get okay with. It's the psychological side, I think, of having that much weight on your chest. Because for me at least, I'm sure other people would have much different points of view, but just when you're getting crushed and you can't breathe, you have to master your brain.

You have to tell your brain, I'm fine. This is a short-term thing. I can do this, I can breathe. It is a short-term thing. I can do this. I can breathe. It's fine. You're not blacking out, right? But it is just the anxiety in your brain kicks in and goes, you can't breathe.

What are you doing? Why are you doing this, man? What's the point of this? Right? And so you have to learn to fight that, but man, does it change really quickly. You're able to adapt very, very quickly. And I think the carryover as well.

So I didn't do much shouldering this summer. I did a lot of carrying this summer. And then when summer finished and I went and tackled the stone, I hadn't touched in like eight months in my garage, I shouldered it. It was 403 pounds. It was something I didn't know

if I'd ever be able to do. But the ability to carry stones, I was able to master that mental side of the thing we're talking about of the discomfort on the chest. And then what do you know? That carried over to another aspect, right? Things feed off each other.

Have you messed around with any like nasal breathing or CO2 tolerance type stuff? I have in the past, yep. Yeah, some of the Wim Hof breathing. It sounds like it would kind of coincide with some of like that because you're only gonna be able to like sip little breaths like when you have that big weight on your chest like that.

I've actually started playing around with just recently, so I can't speak too too much on how well it's worked, but just laying on the ground and breathing with weight on my chest. Let's ask you there. Yeah, okay, there you go. The other day I was doing a 30 second cycle, because usually when you carry the Who's Full around,

it's approximately 30 seconds of effort. And so loading up, like I had 200 pounds in my chest and was doing, laying flat with plates on me and just breathing through that and just learning to deal with that discomfort. And I mean, that's going to strengthen your diaphragm. It's going to strengthen your inner costals and all of those things are going to come with this. So it's kind of sounds like a strange thing to do is just to lay down and breathe with weight on you. But if you break down what you're trying to do, it actually makes a lot of sense.

I would say maybe even do that with the O2 trainer. Have you seen that before? No, I don't believe I have. We had boss Rootin on our show. Oh, that's rad. Yeah, I know he's incredible. Yeah, no doubt. But anyway, we also had Chris Henshaw on our show. And speaking with Chris Henshaw,

he was saying a lot of the top endurance athletes that he trains utilize that oftentimes before they go to bed just to really try to get themselves to be able to breathe a lot stronger and build up some of those muscles that you're talking about. But I mean, that would be probably really brutal to have that weight on you

and to use the O2 trainer at the same time. But it might be a good party. Yeah, appreciate that. It's a good party trick. Yeah. All right, Mark, you're getting leaner and leaner, but you always enjoy the food you're eating. So how are you doing it?

I got a secret, man. It's called good life protein. Okay, tell me about that. I've been doing some good life protein. We've been talking on this show for a really long time of certified Piedmontese beef, and you can get that under the umbrella of good life proteins,

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kind of depending on the way that I'm eating. So if I'm doing a keto diet, I'll eat more fat and that's where I might get the sausage and I might get their 80-20 grass-fed, grass-finished ground beef. I might get bacon. And there's other days where I kind of do a little bit more bodybuilder style, where the fat is, you know, might be like 40 grams

or something like that. And then I'll have some of the leaner cuts of the certified Piedmontese beef. This is one of the reasons why like neither of us find it hard to stay in shape because we're always enjoying the food we're eating and protein, you talk about protein leverage all the time, it's satiating and helps you feel full.

I look forward to every meal and I can surf and turf. You know? I could cook up some chicken thighs or something like that and have some shrimp with it or I could have some steak. I would say the steak, it keeps going back and forth for me on my favorites, so it's hard for me to lock one down but I really love the bavette steaks and I also love the rib eyes as well.

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Let me ask you this, the history of the stones that you were talking about, and people that are getting interested in this, I think you mentioned kind of like a historical stone got ruined. So what should people keep in mind as they're trying to go lift some of these things? Yeah, so I appreciate you bringing that up because as much as I love stone lifting for training, you know, we're simulating a history. What a lot of people don't realize is when they see these historical stones, these are

actual strength relics. A lot of the ones in Sweden are protected by law, which is amazing. There's two stories that I wouldn't mind covering because I think these are just so cool. There's a stone called the Fjanna Stone, and that stone is in Scotland. I went and lifted it. The Fjanna were basically the Highland Special Forces warriors back in the day. Now this stone has been there arguably between 800 to a thousand years. This exact stone, the Special Forces warriors would travel across the Highlands to go prove themselves to be able to get a part of this clan and be one

of the Fjana warriors. And that stone is still sitting there in that exact same spot and you can go lift that stone. And I think that is just one of the Fianna warriors. And that stone is still sitting there in that exact same spot and you can go lift that stone. And I think that is just one of the raddest things I've ever heard and why I went to go do it, right? And so that is a piece of actual history. Now on the other side of it, there, if most people have seen Braveheart, right? We've seen, there's a scene where William Walls

comes back to meet Hamish and they're throwing stones. That is a true thing that would happen. Maybe one of the few things true in that movie. And there actually was a William Wallace stone. William Wallace and his guys camped around in this area called the Ark of the Seven Stains, where these stains meaning stone. And there was a stone attributed to William Wallace, whether he lifted it or not. There it is right there. What a classic scene, man.

Now, whether William Wallace lifted that stone or not, it's attributed to him and it was factual that he camped there. But somebody went there, they picked up this historical stone and they just dropped it, right? People think stones are invincible. They're not. They dropped the stone and the William Wallace stone shattered and it is now gone. And so, the reason I brought up the Fianna stone originally is because it's such a cool story and people need to understand that these stones are a part of history. And if you're traveling to some other person's country and playing with their history, set the stone down with respect.

Do not use tacky on it. Some people will use tacky to lift a stone. You're defacing it, first of all, and you're also too weak to lift it. So come back when you're stronger, right? And remember that a lot of these stones are on private property. So treat the property with respect and the landowners with respect

because they could take it away. There's a spot in Scotland where you actually put a stone on this old plinth that goes back between two and 5,000 years. And this is on private property and they allow you to go lift on their land. It's a kindness. Don't abuse it, right?

So just remember, this stuff is all bigger than you, this stuff is bigger than your Instagram page or your YouTube channel, right? You're becoming a part of a history that goes back, it's all across the world, and it goes back thousands and thousands of years. It's just too cool. That's amazing, you've had some of the opportunities

to go to some of these other countries and lift some of these objects. What do you think is like the toughest one? I'm sure it's like probably different for each person. But is there kind of like one that everyone talks about where they're like, oh shit, that's ... Aaron Powell Yeah, it depends where it is. I've only been to Scotland.

I've got Iceland coming up this year. Definitely carrying the Husafell is one of the biggest ones. That is a big feat. Again, it's 4 to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one.

I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one.

I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think it's going to be a big one. I think't know how to do that. Yeah, it's, that one's kind of an iconic one. I would say that Hustafell Stone is maybe the most popular historical lifting stone. The Denny Stones are, they're a historical lifting stone, but those are ring stones that's

733 pounds, but that's more of a grip test than an actual stone lift. Whoa. Oh, rings. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's super cool. It's tough on the hands. Very, very difficult.

It's like separate blocks that you're kind of lifting, right? Yeah. And those are very, very popular. A lot of people set their sights for those and it was a pleasure to be able to lift them. But yeah, so much of it with these historical stones is about the actual history that you're getting involved in. Like there was a video that just popped up on the left there called the Strathmore at Durness and where that is in Scotland is way up in the highlands.

The stone's 355 pounds, which is a decent lift, but you were in the area where the Pictish warriors were. There's something called the Pictish Brock, which is an ancient Pictish structure from, I think it was 22 to 2400 years ago, right next to where you're going. So you're going way back into history to be involved in these.

Now I'm not saying that stone is from then, but it's in that land, in that area where these guys were. And the picks, they held off the Romans from the south and the Vikings from the north. So we're talking like as bad ass as people get. So it's the one on the left there where I've got my hands up at the kilt there. Yeah. So you're way up in the Scottish Highlands and it's just like a beautiful, beautiful place. These are just adventures to get to some of these spots too. Like it's just such a neat, neat place to go to. What do your kids think of this? Cause you said you have a four year old

and like a seven year old, right? They think it's cool or it's all they know kind of thing? It's all they know. Like I know someday, like I told them, they were pretty, pretty upset that I was coming here and crying, not understanding why dad's going. I'm like, you know, I'm like, guys, I hope someday you'll look back and go, that was pretty cool. You

got this chance. They don't quite get it. Right. And yeah, but they, they like to come out and lift stones with us. And you know, we discussed this before is where we lift stones in Edmonton. It's right in our river valley. We go down on Saturday mornings, we have a fire, the kids come, some people's dogs come and it's just a vibe down there. Right. Like you're just lifting with your bodies. The kids are in the bushes, hitting trees with sticks, being proper kids. And it's so much more than just the workout. It's a community thing. It's just a really, really neat thing.

So yeah, it's too much fun. Why is this called the devil's potato? So my brother Dale is a hilarious genius. We just got, I do a podcast with him called the Stones of Strength podcast. We went to Scotland together, going to Iceland together and he's kind of my partner in crime and all this. And all of these stones, we dug up from the bushes and I just, I dug this one up and I was like, look at this thing. I rolled it down the hill to the site and it just hit the ground. Like down there he was like, that looks like a devil's potato. I'm like, well, now it is.

It's just a super ugly, really, really ugly one. And this is, well, now it is. Like that's the name. It's just a super ugly, really really ugly one. And this is, yeah, in the summer when I was trying to learn how to do it, I got it later on, but you can see how it flips and spins on you. And just to control, I mean, that's twice my body weight at the time. It's pretty, pretty tricky. I'm hoping to maybe shoulder that this summer. We'll see. We've had some people on this podcast, a lot about movement and moving in functional ways and how there's some do's and some don'ts. And I wonder where stuff like this ranks on that list

because this seems, it's been around for a long time. I mean, just because it's been around for a long time doesn't mean that we should naturally be doing it. But it does seem like, and you were saying like, oh, you know, the strength of the wrist versus the strength of the back, it's sort of built in. And I would have to agree. It's not that you can't hurt yourself on these things.

Of course you can hurt yourself doing anything. And if you're not adapted and not used to these things, you can always end yourself. And even when you're a pro and even when you've been doing it for a long time, you can still run the risk of getting hurt. But what has your experience been with this in terms of your movement?

I'd imagine you did say you were a hockey player for a long time and you were a firefighter and you are a firefighter right now. So your athleticism probably has always been pretty good. But have you noticed like similar tightness in doing some of these things or similar restriction that maybe you had when you were lifting heavy and bulking and doing a little bit more traditional lifting?

Yeah, yes and no. I think my issues that I've had with my body have been very fortunate not to have anything major, knock on wood and all that, but some of it is exposed. Weak glutes means that your QL kicks in and works a little bit too hard. So when you're shouldering to one side, my QL will fire up. But I, like I've seen a lot of people lift stones.

I've introduced a lot of people to it that have never done it before. And it's a really low risk thing. It really is, because a lot of them, it can be very intuitive. If you give, like my kids can pick up a rock, you know, over half their body weight. And it's an intuitive movement for a lot of people.

And it doesn't mean there's not an extreme amount of technique with it. There's a technique to use in a fork, man. You know what I mean? Like, of course there's going to be technique to it, but I think a lot of the movement patterns are somewhat intuitive, especially at the beginner level. So I'm not sure if that answers your question,

but I don't think that it's exacerbated any issues that I've had. And I've actually had people reach out to me that say that like doing stone lifting has fixed their back issues. I believe your past guest Dan Strauss had talked about doing a lot of back training to fix his back. I had a guy just yesterday saying that he's had issues and he started stone lifting and it's helped them because if you look at the position you're starting in, your lumbar is in a stretch position and it's helping people get down lower to the ground, right? Like this isn't a deadlift.

We're not doing a rack pull here. You have to be able to drop your hips down and get into the position. And if you can get into that position, it takes a certain amount of mobility just to get there, right? And then if you're able to create force from that position, then you're in a pretty good spot.

Do you think for yourself that your mobility has improved somewhat, or do you have any? It's tough for me, I'm not a good example of it because I got into stone lifting as I stopped playing hockey and as a goalie you have to be pretty flexible and mobile. And so I can't comment from a very good spot because my mobility has been going down because I've stopped stretching for goaltending.

And so I'm stiffer now than I was, but I'm still certainly mobile enough to do all of this stuff. Like I think I have pretty decent mobility. I did play around with doing Atlas stones on the ground where I'll sit on the ground, I'll roll an Atlas stone up onto my shoulder seated, and then I'll get up like in a getup.

Right, and so you have to have a decent amount of mobility to actually be able to do that. So I think I have decent mobility. Yeah, it looks like your hips and your hamstrings when you're on the ground with some of those things It's like they're plenty mobile. There's one right there. Yeah, so that I think they're pretty good This one's a little janky. I'd like to get it a little bit better But still getting up putting a 250 pound atlas stone on your shoulder from seated and then standing with it is pretty pretty tricky

Yeah, look at that hip mobility though. Yeah Yeah, you just did a 90-90 with 250 pounds on your... This is also though one of the reasons why I really like, I mean, I don't really lift stones. I mainly lift sandbags, right? But this is one of the reasons why I like it so much because you can, not that you can't lift a barbell in many different ways.

You can clean it, you can snatch, you can, but like going on the ground, lifting up this way, you can go on the ground, put it on your chest, put it on your shoulder, then lift up. Like, there's so many ways to lift it up, and, you know, I think you're the third person now to mention the idea of, you don't lift it the same way perfectly every single time,

and that's actually a strength of it. Sure. Oh, it is, yeah. It's, so it's really interesting. So there's different styles of stone lifting. If you look, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Basque region of Spain. Nope.

Okay, so they have basically had stone lifting as a national sport for like 150 years. They do that like tug of war type thing, right? The Basque wrestling or something, right? They might. I'm not super familiar with that. That might be somewhere else, but they basically they've turned like rural strength,

what you would need into sport, whether it's wood chopping or stone lifting. They have ones where they actually will pull like, I think it's like 1500 pound stones with like a harness and stuff. But the point I'm getting to is the Basque people have absolutely maximized efficiency. So they have stones, they lift cubes, they lift rectangles and they lift what they call bolas, which is an Atlas stone and they have maximized efficiency. And so they go with lower weights for higher reps.

And the way they lift is actually beautiful. It's really interesting to watch them. They're so smooth and so efficient. And so because of their efficiency, they're able to lift higher weights. But the thing you have to realize is when you're lifting a stone or a sandbag, the shape of that dictates how you lift it. You can't bask lift certain stones because of the shape of that dictates how you lift it. You can't bask lift certain stones because of the shape. And so that's where you need a little bit more of the,

they call it the wind beneath the stone style, a little bit more of the Scottish traditional side where you pick it up more like a deadlift between your leg as opposed to leveraging it up your body. And each have their positives and weakness. If you never lift a stone flat off the ground, you're gonna be weak at that, right? And so you find the balance of efficiency and strength.

I saw Kelly Sturette recently pick up a sandbag, I think it was probably around 200 pounds, and he did some squats with it. And I just messaged him about it, and he's finding what a lot of other people are finding. He's like, you know what, I don't know if I'm gonna do a regular barbell back squat again. You know, because, so if you're not competing

in barbell back squat, I'm not saying it's a useless exercise by any means, a great exercise. I did it for power lifting and you are required to squat with the bar on your back in power lifting. So you wouldn't be able to totally circumvent that situation. But it makes a lot of sense for a lot of people just to kind of maybe just reevaluate or reconsider like, oh, I can get, I can hip hinge this way.

It doesn't have to be a regular barbell deadlift and I can also squat this way and it doesn't have to be a barbell back squat. We can just learn a different skill. We can switch gears and not only can we switch gears, but we can switch gears and now if we want, we can go back and forth. We don't have to ever get rid of anything. Maybe it's just a small departure for a little while.

I couldn't agree more. Yeah, I don't see myself doing a barbell back squat in the near future. And again, it's not that it's not a great movement, of course, but there are many ways to simulate that hinge and that squat in other ways. I'm not sure which channel it would be on, because he doesn't have like his own IG, I don't think.

I think it's a- Yeah, I was just looking there. Like him and his wife on there together. You mentioned pulling some stones, like towing. Are you familiar with that at all? Like do some places do that? Cause I remember, so I don't know if you know about this, but the origin of the sled.

Do you know some of the origin of the sled? I don't know. Yeah, so it's hard to know how true some of this stuff is. I'd rather just believe it to be true cause it's fun. But Louis Simmons of West Side Barbell, you know, 30, 40 years ago was talking to a, I believe it was someone from Finland. And he was talking to this famous coach from Finland.

And he, Louis was saying how their squats are going up, their benches are going up, but their deadlifts weren't really going anywhere. And this guy was saying, hey, you know, out here in Finland, we have X amount of guys that deadlift 800. And that's back when you didn't really see an 800 pound deadlift, it was rare.

Now there's 900,000, now there's 1100. Like it's getting completely nuts, right? And so Louis was like, well, what's the common theme? Like, what are you guys doing? And he goes, well, a lot of these guys have in common that they were lumberjacks. And they would carry the logs out of the forest via towing them.

They would put on a belt and they would tow them out of the forest. And so Louis started to get the idea to drag weight, and to get to have a sled and so on. And so him and Dave Tate promoted that. They talked about it a lot and it just exploded. Now, you know, every company makes a sled and you see sled dragging kind of everywhere.

So it was building up the hamstrings and the glutes in a way that was productive for deadlifting and stuff like that. It makes perfect sense. It's just that carry over, right? There's so many ways to train the patterns of the muscles that are involved. That's cool. I didn't know that. Makes perfect sense. It's just that carry over, right? There's so many ways to train the patterns and the muscles that are involved. That's cool.

I didn't know that. That makes sense a lot. But yeah, they do that in the Basque region. There's a great documentary. Obviously you guys are familiar with Rogue, but they did one called La Ventadora's and that is about the Basque stone lifting and they do dragging there.

It's amazing. Rogue also did great ones about the Icelandic stone lifting called Full Stryker and called Stone Light about the Scottish one. So those are great documentaries of anyone's looking to learn about some of the stuff. And same with Maxima Myron is this company. They did one called The Rise, Fall and Rise Again

of Scottish stone lifting that just came out. And they're doing one about, they're just filming now for the one in Ireland. And have you guys heard about anything going on with the stone lifting in Ireland? No. Oh man, it's so cool. So yeah, this is the full sticker one.

It's really well done. The cinematography is great. These are just a bit like, so a lot of these documentaries you're talking about, they're available on YouTube? Yeah, the rogue ones are available on YouTube. The maximum iron one, you have to go to their site. I'm not sure if it will.

I think you can actually get on Prime Video now, now that I think of it. Not in Canada, we have stupid laws that, anyways. But yeah, so what's going on in Ireland is this guy named David Kioan, and he is just this unbelievable man. And he traveled to Scotland to do the stone lifting there and was just blown away by it.

And he goes, you know, Scotland and Ireland, our cultures are so close. And the Fianna Stone that I'd mentioned earlier in Scotland, well, the Fianna Warriors originated in Ireland. And so he went on a quest to start finding these historical stones in Ireland and he is now at 44 historical Irish stones. He's been driving around the country, finding all these ancient tests of strength because they're basically like one generation away from being lost forever

and he has just brought back, there's been an entire cultural resurgence in Ireland because of his efforts and it's just, it's really fascinating stuff. So there's a documentary being made about him right now. You were mentioning that you used to do a lot of stretching for hockey. What kind of stretching did he do? And did you find it to be effective?

It was somewhat effective. So when I started, like I'm almost 40 now. So when I was starting goaltending, it was the mid nineties and there wasn't a lot of information like there is now, right? And so my stretching was pretty basic stuff. So I don't think I'd have much to contribute on that concept. I was flexible enough that I needed to to butterfly goalie, and that was kind of the extent of it. I kept limber. Butterfly is like both knees in and you're... That's exactly right.

Yeah, that seems very uncomfortable. Having to stay in that position is... It's tricky. You have to be, yeah. And not only stay in that position, you have to be able to move laterally in that position, right? So you're pushing off and then stopping with your knees out like that. And I think I'm getting a little bit of issues now from it because my glutes are quite underdeveloped because I've spent so much time in internal rotation. And so I'm trying to rebuild that up from that point.

But it's, yeah, it's tricky. Yeah, there you go, there's. Was that a, like when you were, because you played hockey for a long time, it sounds like people, where you grew up, it sounded like there's a lot of proficient hockey players. Was it hard to stop playing hockey? It was more hard to stop being with the guys,

to be honest, because yeah, I grew up playing, I played from about the time I was five, then I took a few years off in university, and then afterwards I started playing men's league with some of the guys I actually, funny enough, grew up playing hockey with and went to high school with and these are some of my best buds. So I more miss having the beers in the dressing room afterwards with the guys, a comradery of it. I miss the game of course, but I'm at the point now where I just see my, I gotta pick

my battles. You gotta pick your battles at some point, right? I had to stop goal sending because I could enter in a strongman competition and do a bunch of reps on a car deadlift, and that was fine because it was up and down, but the lateral movements of the gold tending really started to mess with my knee tracking issues. So I was having patella tracking issues.

So it's just, it's the way it goes, right? So yeah. So now you get like, kind of, because you mentioned that you kind of lift stones with a few other guys, right? So you get that community aspect from doing that with some people. Definitely. Yeah.

It's awesome. I've made some good friends doing it, brought other friends in and my brother joined after I'd started and it's been just an amazing adventure with him because we went on a trip to Scotland together and my parents actually came. My grandfather had passed away that year, unfortunately, and he was our, our link to Scotland because I'm Scottish background. And so we brought his ashes and we wore a family kilt and lifted these stones and spread his ashes around Scotland.

So it was a super cool family thing. But then, yeah, after that, my brother and I started our podcast about stone lifting, and it's just kind of taken off from there. And it's just been really cool time with him. And then we started doing events in the city and just where people come to do stone lifting events. And it's just kind of really starting to take off

on a small grassroots scale, man. Like none of this, it's just kinda really starting to take off on a small grass roots scale, man, like none of this, it's really crazy for me to think that I'm here with you guys. Like I don't, nothing that we do or that I do is for anything like that, it's just we do what we love, right, and we're passionate about it. And so when these opportunities come up, like it's just, it's wild, we're just normal dudes

doing our thing, what we like, right? So yeah, it's a lot of fun. And when I reached out to you, you were like, huh? Yeah, I was caught off guard. I'm like, really? This is the Mark Bell? Like, I've got so much here. I was like, yeah, man, we need you.

Yeah, that's awesome. Actually, I had a giggle the other day because you used to make a powerlifting shoe with Reebok way back. And there was no, that was when I first started powerlifting in Canada, you couldn't get any, like there's so many different types of shoes now.

And so I had to, I couldn't find any more men's shoes. I had to order a pair of women's shoes in like a baby blue and I spent hours painting them black with like- That's great. Yeah, with like construction paint and stuff, like just so I could wear them in my first powerlifting competition because there was no act to that stuff. Right. Yeah, those old school ones, man.

You just can't get that stuff in Canada, especially not back then. Yeah, those people with fat feet need help, right? I do have that. So yeah. Do you still do like regular lifting? You still do some, you know, regular dead lifts and things like that here and there? Yeah, you bet. I, so when I'm not training specifically for anything, I like to follow, I really like

what Josh Bryant does, the Jailhouse Strong. I find that Josh to be a very knowledgeable man. I like how he focuses on, you know, strengths, my hypertrophy, some movement stuff. And so basically I take his programs and I'll change what actual exercise it would be. So instead of maybe it being a back squat is I've made this weird thing out of a empty beer keg

where I can put plates in it to simulate more what a stone lift would be. And instead of doing a sled drag, I will do my carries there. So it's basically, I follow still a good foundation of programming. Otherwise I'll just spin out too much. And there is a time for play. Don't get me wrong. And when we're training in the bush in the summer, that's play. That's where we just really have some fun. Training in the bush, eh? Yeah, I know it sounds a little, but yeah, it's down in the forest, man.

It's pretty fun. But yeah, so I do barbell stuff is the answer here. Do you have like a- Oh, good. I was gonna say, it seemed like it'd be tricky to program because you're doing like almost like full body movements all the time. It is.

And so- Body workout. There's, it's interesting what's still lifting because again, there's no actual formula to this. So I know guys that only lift stones to get good at stone lifting and they're fantastic. I know guys that don't touch a stone until they go on a stone tour and they're fantastic at it.

And there's all, and so like my brother, the first time that he lifted a stone, it was a 292 pound stone. His deadlift was only, I think like 325 or 330. Like he, he'd always, you know, worked out, but he never trained in strength sports. He picked up nearly a 300 pound stone. His first time, like he's insanely,

he was an excellent wrestler and he did five Ironmans before his 25th birthday, like just a freaky athlete, but he could pick up stones heavier than some people that I know that are, you know, really, really good strong men. And I see he got the by-bond stone right there. You know, that's what makes me wonder. Like, there's more things that are different

outside of like the weight just being more condensed than a barbell because from what you just said right there, you know, he can do a 330 pound deadlift, but then he almost picked up a 300 pound stone. That's wild. Like that is really crazy. It doesn't make sense. And so I think some of the best examples for this is if you look at world's strongest men,

these are the biggest strongest humans that have possibly ever lived, right? In 2018, Arnold Strongman, which are the heaviest competitions, they had something called the Aad Hogan Tombstone, which is 409 or 410 pounds. And they're able to use tacky on it too. We only use chalk, right?

You do not use tacky on natural stones. Unless it's a competition, your rules, fair play. You get Brian Shaw, and I'm not, like Brian, I admire him and I'm not in any way saying anything negative about him, but Brian Shaw had just set the, Brian Shaw was 35 years old, 425 pounds, had just set the Atlas stone record to a plinth

and it was 563 pounds, he couldn't shoulder a 409 pound stone. That's less than his body weight with all of the skill and all of the strength in the world. And it just shows you how it doesn't, this stuff doesn't necessarily correlate. So you could take my brother who, you know, did a little bit of gym bro lifting just to keep up some hypertrophy

and he can walk up and lift a massive stone. But then you get these high level strength athletes that it doesn't, doesn't carry over, there's no exact formula to it, and that's why it's so fun to train for. I think that stone that you're talking about, I think Martins was able to lift it, and he's been accused of playing a lot of video games.

So some people just have these particular strengths in them, and then also who knows, maybe there's a particular dexterity or something like that. But it is cool that these stones and some of these movements, maybe these are good tests to see who's got like that kind of farm boy strength or who has like

field strength that they could actually apply when they're doing another activity. Obviously the activity itself requires a skillset as well. You know, someone's doing MMA or jujitsu or wrestling. The skillset for those is you need to be doing it for a long ass time. But it would be interesting to kind of like, I wonder if there's like a sweet spot for most,

because like on a regular deadlift, we can't have a bunch of guys at your juj a regular deadlift, we can't have a bunch of guys at your Jiu-Jitsu school deadlift to like verify how strong they are on the mats potentially, but maybe with a stone or maybe with a sandbag, maybe they would be more verifiable. Well, it's funny you mention that,

because they used to have like farmers testing stones in Norway and Sweden. That was your job interview. And it would depend on how much money you would make and whether you could get a job was depending on the size of the stone that you could lift. So that's exactly, you talk about farm strength, that was a test for some of these farmers. If you wanted a farm hand, you had your stones right there and you had guys come up, you had to see what they were actually capable of doing. It was a test. And even the whole

concept of manhood stones in Scotland, the exact translation is a portion of a man's size. So sometimes how much meat you would get would depend on how much stones you could lift. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's wild stuff. And actually, sorry, you had a picture of the Bible on stone up there and that was just a neat one. I don't know. Have you guys seen this? This has turned into an internet meme here, this top one here. And that, that is the oldest recorded lifting stone that goes back 2,600 years. And that's actually- Why is it turned into a meme though?

Oh, cause people, it says that Bybon lifted it over his head with one hand. And so it's funny, cause if I post a video, the amount of people that will make references to Bybon, it's just kind of turned, cause it's so absurd, right? Like here you have this historical stone in a museum,

but yeah, so that goes back 2,600 years. That's the oldest documented one. It's pretty cool. I will never go to a doctor ever again about my general health All they want to do is put you on pills Mmm really well said there by Dana White couldn't agree with them more a lot of us are trying to get jacked and tan a lot Of us just want to look good feel good and a lot of the symptoms that we might acquire as we get older Some of the things that we might have High cholesterol or these various things.

It's amazing to have somebody looking at your blood work as you're going through the process, as you're trying to become a better athlete, somebody that knows what they're doing, they can look at your cholesterol, they can look at the various markers that you have, and they can kind of see where you're at and they can help guide you through that.

And there's a few aspects too where it's like, yes, I mean, no, no shade to doctors, but a lot of times they do want to just stick you on medication. A lot of times there is supplementation that can help with this. Merrick Health, these patient care coordinators are going to also look at the way you're living

your lifestyle, because there's a lot of things you might be doing that if you just adjust that, boom, you could be at the right levels, including working with your testosterone. And there's so many people that I know that are looking for, they're like, boom, you could be at the right levels, including working with your testosterone. And there's so many people that I know that are looking for, they're like, hey, should I do that? They're very curious.

And they think that testosterone's gonna all of a sudden kind of turn them into the Hulk, but that's not really what happens. It can be something that can be really great for your health because you can just basically live your life a little stronger, just like you were maybe in your 20s and 30s. And this is the last thing to keep in mind guys,

when you get your blood work done at a hospital, they're just looking at like these minimum levels. At Merrick Health, they try to bring you up to ideal levels for everything you're working with. Whereas if you go into a hospital and you have 300 nanograms per deciliter of test, you're good bro, even though you're probably feeling like shit deciliter of test, you're good, bro. Even though you're probably feeling like shit.

At Merrick Health, they're going to try to figure out what type of things you can do in terms of your lifestyle. And if you're a candidate, potentially TRT. So these are things to pay attention to to get you to your best self. And what I love about it is a little bit of the back and forth that you get with the patient care coordinator. They're dissecting your blood work. It's not like if you just get this email back

and it's just like, hey, try these five things. Somebody's actually on the phone with you going over every step and what you should do. Sometimes it's supplementation, sometimes it's TRT, and sometimes it's simply just some lifestyle habit changes. All right, guys, if you want to get your blood work checked and also get professional help from people who are going to be able to get you towards your best levels, head to MerrickHealth.com

and use code POWERPROJECT for 10% off any panel of your choice. One thing I do want to mention though, you mentioned your brother was a wrestler, right? Yes. Okay, so there's something about the transfer to grappling strength that has like, as I started, again, not stones, but sandbags, lifting those types of things and getting strong with it over time, I have noticed a noticeable change in how easy it is to just deal with another person's body.

You know what I mean? And I find it funny how you called it fighting the stone, right? Because that's kind of how I think about lifting sandbags in certain ways. It almost feels like fighting the bag in a way. You know what I mean? So it's like, Mark, you mentioned like,

there could be a dexterity and some inline strength, but I think there is something that you are, there's a lot of things that you're not getting when you're just lifting heavy with the barbell that you're getting with sandbags and stones. I couldn't agree more. I grew up wrestling. I'm from a family of three boys. We're all wrestlers. I was the least good compared to the other two. They're both better than me, but it's, you absolutely see the carryover for sure. We'll even look at your past guest again, Dan Strauss to bring him up.

Like he's a world-class BJJ fighter and he does a ton of soundbag work. Why? Because it works, right? It translates very, very much over to what you guys do. Yeah. When you think about a leg extension machine or leg curl or some of these back machines

and some of those things, they were probably made with the very intention of like this does this specific thing. But then we somehow over the years just maybe got a little lost in the sauce of the effectiveness of those things for everything else. Not like they're completely ineffective. We had Corey Schlesinger,

who's a very proficient strength coach in the NBA. He works with the Detroit Pistons and he said, one of the best tools that we use to help the knee is a leg extension, which is kind of wild because you're like, no, like not a leg extension. You kind of think that a lot of times that hurts people's knees, but anyway, just it's interesting how those machines

and a lot, how these things kind of came to be, to make sense that these stones and these rocks and these sandbags and so on are sort of more of a natural thing for us to move around and us to lift and then our body kind of reacts accordingly. You're not gonna just pack on tons of muscle to your legs when you're picking up stone. You might pack on some weight on your legs,

but that would probably more likely represent someone who is maybe a little bit more untrained. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Yeah, I don't think you're gonna get a ton of hypertrophy from doing any of this stuff, but you are just gonna get stronger like at the way you are, absolutely. And a lot of it is super intuitive.

Like my brother Dale's boy, he is, I think when he was four years old, he's the same, his boy's the same age as mine. And he, her dad, look, look, and he was in the supermarket and his kid was in the shopping cart and he's shoulder to pumpkin. Like it's just, you watch these kids move sometimes.

Like my parents have these little tiny medicine balls or 10 pounds and my little guys will grab it. And it's not like they're studying my videos. And it's not like I've sat them down and said, this is how you do it. A lot of these movements can be very intuitive, right? You watch a kid squat, it's natural. And I'm not saying that this stuff is that ingrained like a squat, but it's just amazing how for some people it just comes that easily. Movements are right there in

you. The strength of your wrist and your hands and stuff. Have you noticed improvements maybe with something like pull-ups or something like that? Not as much. No, I wouldn't say, I would never use pull-ups myself for it. Again, we were talking about the wrist pull-ups, something like pull ups or something like that? Not as much. No, I wouldn't say I would never use pull ups myself for it. Again, we were talking about the wrist pull ups, something like that would, because if you're gripping a stone, it's like this. If you do a wrist pull up, it's going to be like that. So you have that isometric hold in that flex position, something like that would, but I think just developing strong wrists overall are going to carry over, but you are going

to have to have that max effort isometric. Fingertip strength isn't as important. If you have to lift a heavy stone just by the tips of your fingers, like if you're a rock climbing, you're going to have a hard time because those stones get pretty big. But sometimes you'll have to lift the stone. Like I have marks here, you'll see where I'll higher up on the stone. I'll have to lock my forearm in and then I'll have to wrap my hand around. So you really have to figure out some very strange ways to get the

handles on some of these. And that's why it's so fun, man. My buddy Troy, I've mentioned him and I have spent hours sometimes where we find a big stone, a little over 400 pounds and him and I will just go over it and it takes an afternoon to actually break this down. And it might sound silly to some people, but again, you're in the bush, you're having a good time with a buddy or anytime you have a whole bunch of dudes focusing on one thing, usually it's a pretty good time, whether you're sitting around a campfire, whether it's whatever,

right? Like when you get the combined effort, the camaraderie, and you're trying to figure out a puzzle, it's quite fun, right? It's a strength puzzle. And so it's very interesting some of the ways and the positions you have to get your body into and actually even just break these stones off the ground, nevermind lift them up. When you go and try to lift these historical stones, are there like people there recording it in some way? Like not videoing it, but like is there some sort of historical record of some folks that have lifted these stones?

Yes, there are, especially at the Denny stones. So in order to lift the Denny stones, you have to apply ahead of time. And there's a gentleman by the name of Brett Nicol. We had him on our podcast. He's just an unbelievable ambassador for stone lifting in general, especially Scottish stone lifting, but him and a man named Jim Splane and I'm sorry, I think his wife's name is Rosemary Jane. I apologize if I get that wrong, but they are there to document it with take pictures and then you get to sign a book and it's kind of cool. You get a little thing I have on my wall. It just, that's a really

neat historical feat. A lot of people are like in the Denny stones and yeah, that's a really neat one. The rest of them are usually literally just in an empty field and you just show up and again, that's why I preach the etiquette of it because nobody's going to call you out if you do something wrong, but you just be a good person and treat these with respect. Right? This stuff is important and it's really cool.

And that's how we carry these traditions on for the future. If someone breaks it, it's gone, right? Are these competitions? Stone lifting is done in competition sometimes. So they have the Donald Dinney games, which are really cool in Scotland. That's a competition. My buddy Troy that I've referenced a few times,

it's how I really dove into stone lifting hard here is he held stone lifting competitions locally and they were just so much fun and it's often push yourself. So you are going to be seeing more and more stone lifting competition as time goes on. And they're also featured a lot more in just normal strongman competitions because this stuff is growing in popularity. Social media is beautiful for that is people get a chance like look just like how we linked up right. People are going to see this very maybe strange thing to them, look into it more and go,

no, that's actually kind of cool, that interests me a bit, right? And so that's a great thing about it. It's a small community still, nothing wrong with that. It's growing and I just hope it continues to grow in the right direction. So maybe even within a strongman competition, there could be a separate stone lifting

going on simultaneously almost. Well, I think stone lifting is one of the maybe the more feared lifts in strongman. And feared is maybe not the right word, but you can train for axles. People know you can train with an axle. You can train with a sandbag. If you know there's gonna be a 500 pound Atlas stone

to put on that plinth, you can find a 500 pound Atlas stone that's gonna be somewhat similar. Every stone is different. And so it has that X factor that people are not going to be able to be prepared for. And so I think in strongman, maybe it's one of the ones, again, and to go back to that point I made where Brian Shaw wasn't able to lift a stone that's under his body weight,

it's because it's a very tricky thing. And so he has all the strength in the world, but if you can't train for the specificity of the actual shape you're shouldering or carrying, it makes it a lot more difficult to train for, if that makes any sense. Yeah. Yeah. Curious about hypertrophy with these because like, you know, you see a lot of people that

do a lot of sandbag squats, a lot of sandbag pressing. Do you do some of that stuff with other implements or do you do some of that stuff with stones? I don't do a ton of it for hypertrophy. Again, I like to train with barbells and dumbbells a lot. I think that that is if you're looking for hypertrophy, we know that barbells and dumbbells work. That's not to say that you can't do those for that. And some people like to, and I say right on man, that's super cool, whatever works for you. I will use them in higher rep range to work on something. So say I want to work on my speed off the ground. Like I

have a stone in my place, it's 309, it's got great handles and that's a great one to work on my speed off the ground. Like I have a stone in my place, it's 309, it's got great handles, and that's a great one to work on explosivity off the ground, right? So I use it more as force generation through the range of motion that I'm going to need to be strong in, as opposed to specifics for hypertrophy. Yeah, because I mean, for hypertrophy,

it does take an extra level of stress. Trying to focus on your legs, but now you're also focusing on, okay. And they're just such like the, they're complex movement patterns with a lot of stone lifting. So the sandbag squats can be fantastic for it. And if you go for high rep ranges, it will work.

But for myself personally, I just, I don't, but that's not to discredit anybody else from doing so. Yeah. I've always been fascinated by hockey. Never been like necessarily like a huge fan, but you know, growing up in upstate New York, it was really cold and I had a lot of friends that were into it.

I just always found it fascinating that they're like, because in basketball and a bunch of other sports, you see people get in a little scuffle, but it's broken up. But in hockey, they're like, let's just let it go. Let's just let it work itself out and see what happens. Yeah, it's called the code. It's an actual thing in hockey.

There's a certain code of how you represent yourself on the ice and it'll catch up if you don't. It's just like part of it. It's part of it, yeah. And that's not to encourage chippiness, don't get me wrong, you don't go out there and be an asshole, right? But no, there's a certain code in hockey

that you do the wrong thing, and especially the wrong guy, you're getting in a fight. We've brought some of this up on the podcast before, just because it's like ridiculous, but I think there's just one guy, or these two guys that just fought each other like 15 times on the ice and supposedly fought each other at like a bar and stuff.

It was Ty Domi and Bob Probert. Oh man, those are two of the toughest to ever be on the ice. And they just like, they wouldn't even really do anything to each other on the ice. They would just like throw their gloves down any time they got on the ice together and they would just battle it out.

And I think Bob Probert's like six, five. Why did they hate each other? Yeah, he's big. Dolny's little. Yeah. Do we know why this? I don't even think they hated each other. Is it even funny or part?

It's just like part of the sport. It's a tough guy thing, right? So you'd have the enforcers, right? And they had a role and it was to be the tough guy. And it's funny, it's interesting that they would fight in a bar because usually hockey's known for you beat the shit out of each other in the ice and then you go have a beer together afterwards

because it's like a tip of the hat. Yeah, some of those guys are real tough. They're real tough. I think they probably still had a beer afterwards. Yeah, I would hope so. Even afterwards. Yeah, it's a different fighting style. It's pretty gnarly.

And now they have to keep the helmet on which is too bad because you break your hands a lot more on that my old man's got an indented knuckle from hockey fighting back in the day It's kind of funny like now they when they fight they have to keep their helmets on it's like it's not that the fighting is Gone, it's more so just keep your helmet on. Yeah Yeah, it's too bad Well, yeah that used to be the old way to call someone out you take the strap off and spin your helmet on the ground Like it's like okay. Yeah, that's a little too, too much bravado. Don't get me wrong. I don't think that that's great for the sport in general, but yeah, now they got to keep the lids on.

When you played hard hockey, did you partake? I was a goalie. Um, so there's not as much goalie fighting. I went down the ice a few years ago with a guy. I cross-checked one of the guys in my team and I just took my helmet off and went right down there and I pushed Him so hard and he didn't expect me. I'm like now you're fighting me And he just kind of like and then skated off and realized he was in one Does everybody want the smoke? Is it just like yeah, so there's one game

I don't know if we'll be able to find it But there's one game where everyone fights and it goes on for like it goes on for like 30 minutes like one fight settles down And another fight starts, another fight, and the two goalies just look at each other and they're like, they throw their gloves down, they meet in the middle of the ice and they start pounding the shit out of each other. Bench clear and brawl.

Yeah, it's rare, but it happens. Yeah, the goalie fights are pretty awkward because we just have so much equipment on, right? That's what I was going to say, yeah. It's not a good fight to watch. It's just more of a novelty. This should be a sport. You know, of a novelty. This should be a sport. This fighting on the ice should be a sport.

It should be like its own thing. They do? Yeah, they do have it. That's amazing. It's rare, yeah. Yeah, look at that skirmish. Who's the person in the back throwing punches at the air? I know, I think he's just making a mockery

of what's in front of him. I've seen this. Yeah, that's pretty funny. Why, so why, this must be named after a person I'm assuming, but why are these called a Donnybrook? You know what? You've heard that term, right? I actually haven't heard that term.

Oh, you haven't heard, maybe. I thought I've heard that term before. No, no, you might be right. In reference of these massive brawls. It's probably like a dude. Yeah, oh, I'm assuming it would be. It's probably some guy from a long time ago. The hockey culture's got all sorts of names, but this stuff goes like, have you

seen Slapshot with Paul Newman? Oh yeah. Yeah. Like even in that, the Hanson brothers and that the scrappers and putting on the foil, like it's, it's just part of the sport, man. It's a, yeah, it's fun. You still get any opportunities to watch it or a, yeah. Yeah. I get a went to an oilers game, buddy from work took me recently. It's pretty fun to go watch a Connor Mcdave and those guys play. And I mean, I could jump in with my buds and go play sometime. But yeah, my oldest started hockey too. So it's good to see him on the ice. It's just a, it's a huge part of Canadian culture, right?

So it's, it's quite a sport. It's probably one of the weirdest sports in the entire world. If you break it down with all the equipment and you're skating on ice and all of it, but it's, it's pretty fun. A lot of skillets involved, right? Yeah, I remember hockey, like I said, is pretty popular where I grew up, and so I would go to some of the high school games

and just be freezing my ass off watching a game, but it was fun. Yeah, my mom used to have her specific hockey jacket because she'd spent so much time in the rinks between me and my three brothers. It's just this big down jacket. It gets cold, man. You do anything else to kind of keep up your fitness

and to keep up some athleticism? Yeah, not as much as I used to. I try and find, because just my, I'm so focused on Iceland and my goals, right? So I really focus my training around what's in front of me, what I'm trying to do. But I hit the assault by just trying to keep some cardiovascular up.

You know, my job sometimes is pretty chilled. Sometimes it can be really intense. So you definitely do get elevated heart rate and get some fitness out of that. I just, I want to be strong enough to reach my goals, but I also need to be fit enough to make sure I can still do a really good job at my job when the time calls because it's,

that's the hardest work I can ever do in my life is fighting a fire. It's very, very taxing and I can't, yeah. Can't just all of a sudden wait to 60 and not be able to breathe. No, you can't. And what's weird about that is you can be going from chilling to in a fire in under four minutes

from going from zero to 60, right? So you gotta make sure you have the capacity. But yeah, I don't do a ton outside of just my goals. Probably should at some point, but yeah, not right now. Sounds good, man. I'm not a fan of the I'll see what you got. I mean, I don't even, I have any idea how much these things weigh. I just saw them on a run and I was like, oh, those would be perfect for Dave. Sounds good. We'll go check them out, man. Where can people find it? Caveman Dave man on Instagram.

The stones of strength podcast is the one that me and my brother do. If any of this stuff interests you at all, feel free to come give it a listen and Edmonton stones of strength is just a small account we have for some of our local stuff, but that's it. Strength is never weakness, weakness never strength. Catch you guys later.

Bye.