Mark Bell's Power Project - Tait Fletcher & Keith Jardine: Fighters, Film, Suffering & Reinvention

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

Tait Fletcher and Keith Jardine joined us to talk about the brutal overlap between fighting, acting, writing, directing, brain health, creativity, and what it really takes to keep reinventing yourself. We got into Keith’s film Kill Me Again, Tait’s work in Hollywood, the Chuck Liddell fight, AI, suffering, PTSD, Ibogaine, and why the real win is learning how to keep showing up when the spotlight is gone.Follow Keith Jardine:Instagram: @keithjardine205X: @KeithJardine205Follow Tait Fletcher:Instagram: @taitfletcherPodcast: Pirate Life RadioSpecial perks for our listeners below!🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWER to save 20% off site wide, or code POWERPROJECT to save an additional 5% off your Build a Box Subscription!🩸 Get your BLOODWORK/TRT/PEPTIDES! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com and use code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off Self-Service Labs and Guided Optimization®.🧠 Methylene Blue: Better Focus, Sleep and Mood 🧠 Use Code POWER10 for 10% off!➢https://troscriptions.com?utm_source=affiliate&ut-m_medium=podcast&ut-m_campaign=MarkBel-I_podcastBest 5 Finger Barefoot Shoes! 👟 ➢ https://Peluva.com/PowerProject Code POWERPROJECT15 to save 15% off Peluva Shoes!Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM?si=JZN09-FakTjoJuaW🚨 The Best Red Light Therapy Devices and Blue Blocking Glasses On The Market! 😎➢https://emr-tek.com/Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!👟 BEST LOOKING AND FUNCTIONING BAREFOOT SHOES 🦶➢https://vivobarefoot.com/powerproject🥶 The Best Cold Plunge Money Can Buy 🥶 ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast➢ https://www.PowerProject.live➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerprojectFOLLOW Mark Bell➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybellFollow Nsima Inyang➢ Ropes and equipment : https://thestrongerhuman.store➢ Community & Courses: https://www.skool.com/thestrongerhuman➢ YouTube : https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=e

If you love movies, Tarantino talks about, he just loves a movie. He knows movies. He loves movies. If you love movies, just write the movie you want to see. I suffered for so long as an actor and I suffer for so long as a writer and I still suffer every day, man. If you don't suffer well, I don't have any desire to be near you. Back when we were a caveman around a capfire telling stories and reacting and having fun, like that's part of our genetic code and that communal experience. I don't know how directors can direct other people's writings.

Like, I'm a writer director. And I guess real directors can just pick up another script. They don't have the passion and they didn't bleed through every line like I did writing. Watching strangers react and laugh throughout your movie and parts that you wrote that you put together. There's just no better feeling. As hard as it is to make a movie, it is even harder to get people to know about it and to get people to watch it. What's it called? It's called Protein Candy, legit, the URL's ProteinCandy.com.

There was a company making really good gummies. I forget what that brand was. Like protein gummies? Gummy bears, yeah. They were good. Yeah, they were really good. It was like allelose or something was in there. So, you know, I want to buy these right now.

I'm going to say it sounds super digestible. Yeah. So I was wondering whenever I get protein powder or anything, I'm like, how many farts are in here? Yeah. It's funny. You get to an age. You got to be a little careful. You sure do.

You get to an age where everything's like, how digestible is that? Right. Am I pooping the next two days? You're always looking at the food that way. It's different than when you're young. You're like, I just want that because it tastes good. And then there's a. satisfaction. Oh yeah, that's a good one.

Right. Maybe you're not at that age yet. Do I always take cillium at night every night? Cillium's part of it. That's what's in my bag. Some cillium husk. Yeah. Get that fiber in there? I need to have a good morning expression.

Otherwise, I just don't have a right day. You know what I mean? I like that. I'm not trying to feel sticky all day. Okay. That's going to be a great day. Only a couple wipes. Yeah, right.

Or none. You know, sometimes you come out of that thing. You're like, yes, success. I had something weird happened the other day because I had to leave the house a lot earlier than normal and a poop like disappeared on me. And I didn't end up going at my normal time. Right.

And then the whole day, like the whole day was thrown off and even the next day. Yeah. So I was like, where did this? And I was asking my wife. I'm like, where did this go? I'm just not ready yet. That's like we were talking on the way here.

But then I had a day with three poops so then it all equaled out. But you're doing the math. All right. Three, now I'm good. Mark, I got to say it. It was weird for a minute. At your place, you have like a bathroom that's for yourself, right?

Oh, yeah. That bathroom is great because you have a red light therapy device by it, but your toilet, bro. Oh, yeah, that's why it's seen, it's seen better days. You needed a private firm to come in. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that toilet is holding on by a thread. That red light, that's a good idea, by the, because I'll just sit in there and I'll play crossword or something, you know what I mean, until my legs go numb.

If I could, I can, I act. That's awesome. You have the red light there. Has UVB on it too. Yeah. And it's got the, you know, the toilet lid thing that cleans your butt for you. So you don't have to do you got, that's all that? Do you got the blue methylene blue lines in the toilet?

I should, though. Yeah. I got that. That'll be the next evolution. What is that blue line in your toilet, Keith? Cleaning a product. Yeah, right. So what have you guys been up to?

Movies. Got a podcast that we're just starting up. Right now I'm in town promoting over your dead body. we did 10A wrestling on Thursday night live was a blast okay I do you know about this wrestling

but I went back Friday I didn't have to but I went back Friday because I just thought it was so cool you know I'm going backstage watching these guys work out their stuff watching the producer communicate to everybody

and just being in that world and seeing through their eyes and talking to all these people about their journey and all that is like wow what an experience who are some of the people that are on top in that one Is Samoa Joe in there?

Didn't see him. The Hardy Brothers were there. Okay. Or the Hardy Boys, I guess. It's not part of WWE or it is part of it. It is. It's a subset of that. Is that like their Farm League?

Maybe that's what, is that what Jimmy House is getting into? No, he was in WWE next. Okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah, but they're back and forth a lot. Yeah, they go up and then come down. I don't like Killer Cross was part of WWE.

And then he just got released and he just fought in Australia for, World Series of wrestling, I think it was. So there's all these other events. But yeah, they're connected, WWE and TNA. What do you guys think is more intimidating for you guys where you're at now? Is it more intimidating to be around Denzel Washington and the set of the people like on Breaking Bad or was it more intimidating back in the day to be around John Jones and George St. Pierre and all the great fight coaches and stuff?

I say neither, but sometimes... Fuck all those people. It really, that's what you got to have that attitude. but every once in a while you're around somebody and you never really knew like you'd have this effect this act would have effect on you like we're around like big Oscar winners

that kind of thing like worked with Joaquin Phoenix and all that but for some reason when I first met Nick Cage whatever Nick Cage like wow that's Nick's Cage that's really cool and a little bit of nervousness because I watched all those movies growing up and he was one of my favorite guys all the Red Rock West all the 90s indie films

you know so every once in a while I gotta surprise you like that what about you I feel like I've been star struck twice And it's never like like Denzel was one of those for me Athletes are like it's whatever Because you're an athlete you're doing that It doesn't matter right it's just everybody's working

But to be around like huge start like And then I'd get absorbed in the work Like when I work with Denzel it's like I want to you know you've got a strong desire To not fuck this up for one thing but like You had the most epic fight scene huge huge That was crazy you guys went out of for a long time Yeah was like two minutes

fight scene or something like that was great which seems like 10 minutes when you're totally which you don't understand uh for tate big guy six foot four yeah three six three six four to carry like uh denzil's like what 60 this time yeah he was he was up there so this is the equalizer yeah the equal it's real similar to wrestling watching wrestling and stuff like like how you got to how you got to carry this guy make him look good and and you're doing most if he's throwing you around you got to make him look good throwing you around how do you do that man yeah and you got to be an acrobat and an art. Ben Affleck was like that in the accountant too.

It's like you're doing a backflip over him. He's not judo tossing you. Right. It's just like you're working with whatever people have. But for me, the two people I was at the USC once. I was doing bodyguard work for Rogan sitting up. And I look back and I see this gorgeous blonde.

And she's like really takes your eye like out of a cast. You're like, whoa. And then I look next. I go, oh, that's OG iced. And like, so it's Coco next to him. Right. And so to see how that that was dope. That's incredible. That's great.

And then I was at a Comic-Con. Yeah, this, this was dope. Then I was at a Comic-Con, and I saw Hot Lips, Hulahan, and Klinger from MASH. And I think that was, because that, like, imprint me. When I'm a little kid, I'm watching that. Those are the start.

And so I think that was, like, a huge deal. But, you know, you walk by Tom Holland or something. I'm like, I don't know who that is. You know what I mean? I don't, like, I don't know hardly. I don't notice that stuff. Yeah. Denzo had to be that way a little bit, though, right?

Because he carries himself in a certain way. He said he said he got starstruck. I talked to him a little bit on the back end of the set. And he goes, I bought this house in the hills. And up next to me, Bob Hope. And he goes, and Bob Hope would come driving by in his convertible. And I was just like, Bob Hope. It's cool to see like a dude like that that's that established, like in awe of that stuff.

The other thing about Denzel is like, how do you continue to know who you are? He has, you know, people are like, what's he like? I'm like, I don't know, what's it like to not be able to go to Whole Foods? What's it like to not be able to go to a restaurant? Like, you literally can't, right? I remember a friend of mine was working with Tom Cruise in London. He's like, I went into this crazy place. They've got clothes in there.

They've got every food you could get. They've got this great produce. And he'd been in a Whole Foods. He's describing a Whole Foods. He's never been into a grocery store before, right? It's like at a certain point. I don't know what a gas bill costs for my house because I don't ever do any of that, right? If you're at a certain level, right?

And so I think that the cool thing that was grounding about Denzel was like his hairdresser, the wardrobe guy, his security guy were guys that were with him for 30 or 40 years. And because how else do you know if somebody even loves you? Like you don't know what anybody's authenticity is because everybody's trying to be in your pocket or everybody's got another motive and nobody's really upfront with that, even if they are nice. They don't want to just have an. And so I don't know, those kinds of guys of keeping it real from way back is pretty encouraging. I know being confident is like supremely important,

but like when you're going to pitch a movie or some of these things, it's got to be a little nerve-wracking, I would imagine. We're going to read for a acting gig, right? They're completely different, but pitching a movie is at a different level. You're in a room full of people. I pitched a movie once and I came in there and I had a western that I talked to him about. It's the first thing I had some really good actors or attached to this Western and that network.

And I'm redoing it again with this big A-list actor. And I go into his crew and all that. And I'm pitching this movie. And I sit down. They all come to L.A. And he just flew to L.A. from Florida. And I'm sitting down there in Hollywood. And, okay, hey, Keith.

And now we're doing our bullshit. And then, all right, now let's get on. So we're already looking about doing this Western series. So we're not interested in a Western. So what else do you got? Oh, shit. Wow. And then it's like,

Okay, well, yeah. So I start going in these other scripts, man, and just being prepared and having these other things. So you whip out your phone, start talking to chat, GPT, asking a question. Well, the really cool thing about Keith is watching this transition, I'm going and becoming like a writer and being a real, not like I dabble, like this is the job eight hours a day.

This is what I think about the rest of the 10 hours a day. Like, it's insane. And to watch that and go, here's our short that we did. We did a little short called El Paso. and then but he's got a full script for a feature right behind already in his pocket so when he talks to these people it's like and that's the thing is like are you prepared you know because they're going to ask the question and you better think about what questions they're going to ask you and do you have other things that you can offer and that's where he's been brilliant in that well thing

and what i've learned too is like someone just pitched me a movie the other day and he talked for about 30 40 minutes about this movie tell me the story um the beginning of the end the turns the axe the um and jumping back and forth and all that and he's like wow like this guy's like he's been around right and like but you've never really pitched a movie before because you need we're really like my movie that that took off that that I have kill me again is like you need to be in the room with people all right um so what do you got um well i got this movie it's a high concept it's um well it's groundhogs day but it's from a serial killer's perspective bam like if they're interested right that that's what you got to do man you can't be being okay and then so then

the character gets this motivation in page 30 where it's like wow you know you got to have a real elevator pitch that's tight yeah and so just working on that what about the the kid that was pitching you some ideas for mandolorean i saw a video i sent it over at ryan i thought this was adorable i think this is the way that uh everyone should pitch their movie to john febro it's that maybe they could make a brand new mandolarine season but each episode has felt like focused is on a certain mandolorn and their origin story. Like the first episode for say...

He's real enthusiastic. He's great. And now you came in Mandalorne. How he got your kid? Second episode to be the armorer. She, Disney needs a higher this kid. This is what people want to see. I know.

He's thought about it. Noah's just present the whole show to him. Noah's amazing reviews, I think, is what his YouTube is. And he's this little kid that goes around with his dad. His dad's, I think, maybe a brown belt and jiu-jitsu. And he takes him around. And he has an interview he does with Keanu too. I think he makes a drawing for him or something like that.

He's incredible. He's real charismatic. He's great, man. Yeah. He's something else. But yeah, that. Do it like that. Have a little kid like that.

That's who wants to see that. Right. Yeah. All the confidence. What was this, the Kill Me Again thing you mentioned? You wrote that? Yeah.

I have a movie. We got a plan for you to do tonight. You guys haven't seen that. Yeah. I have a movie that has a lot of traction with studios and people want to do it I got actors attached to it and long story short they wanted a studio wanted to do the movie but I wasn't going to direct it I've only done a short at this time and all that so so I went back to drawing where what can I do that's really contained and

something that I can do I can direct and in low budget and the groundhog day from a time loop from a serial killer's perspective jumped in my mind I wrote the beginning and the end of that in about fast ever wrote anything about three weeks two three weeks And I started raising money at that point. That was in August of 24 and I shot it in December of the same year. The pressure of that what happened was he's already been writing a bunch and then the strikes start happening. And so these different unions are going on strike in the film business. And the other thing is too is if you want to climb up in the business, if you want to direct something, you have to have ownership of that.

You can't just give it over to somebody else. And so there's this different kind of wrestling that you're doing with these things. And so Keith writes this thing that is contained in this one unit. We could only do it at night, which was a blessing because the noise would have killed us otherwise. And we put this thing together in 12 days, 12 nights of filming. And all the, you know, the crew that was with us was people that we'd known for 20 years. There's just like a lot of goodwill that was with that. Yeah, like this isn't, like this is a, the value of this movie is, I don't know, 10 million more.

Because all the favors we got. And if you just look at the production value, watching it right now. the coloring, the everything. Like, this is, it's 91 on Rotten Tomatoes right now. This is a really good movie. I'm really proud of it. The concept is fucking dope. But the thing is, we just went to Tooby and Prime on this.

And the thing is, as hard as it is to make a movie, it is even harder to get people to know about it and to get people to watch it. That's what the studio is, everyone's having trouble. Everyone's trying to figure this out right now because there's so much stuff out there. And so that's what we're learning right now. As a producer, you got to learn every phase of the thing. game now I'm learning the other side how do I promote this movie because I got this actor brendam fair who is an amazing world-class actors there's really only a few actors in the world

could do what he did in this movie he's in every freaking scene damn and we're shooting 12-hour nights and his arc is so intense and funny and everything at the same time and he went he went he went to battle for me man he studied for months before we did this we did this and because he's never had a chance to play this dark of a character before and he really freaking killed it man and so like just we have all these amazing people in there and now we just need to let people know

hey this is out there and this is like a time that you'll never you'll never forget you know something's up with that cook in that movie that's everybody's favorite part man and then he sees the little nurses Michelle Waterson and then Matt Page who does uh what's this character

Sam oh master can Yeah, Master Ken that does all the... You know Master Ken? Yeah, so he's at the counter. That's why I recognize. I'm like, that guy knows. His voice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cowboy did a little cameo in it with us. Yeah, it's great. Maurice Green. Yeah. Yeah. But I got a lot of MMA guys in there doing like stuff they wouldn't normally do. But you wouldn't even know with them because they're such great actors,

learning how to ad lib and all that. Like, it was just a blast, man. It's been a hell of a ride, dude. There's nothing... Being in a theater watching strangers. like we had a week theatrical release and being behind a theater watching strangers react and laugh

throughout your movie and parts that you wrote that you put together and all that like there's just no better feeling like being being in the ring after I fought Chuck and the crowd and all that like it's the same man it's no better no worse like is just like to be able to do this this is your art and that's what movies is right

like you're doing an art but like a painting lasts forever right but it has a life life a shelf life where like now it's in theaters now it's in streaming and like just to um to evoke an audience reaction through that run and just to be there and witness it and like yeah that's why i love when people reach out to me on the instagram like whoa i just saw your movie this is dope and all this stuff like i just love that man well the coolest parts too is that keith got to have his dad in it oh yeah and so you get

to have your father in a film like that and that's forever that's really beautiful he's super proud of that what would your advice be to like small filmmakers that are trying to make something to maybe break out let's say they're writing a lot they're making a lot of stories um how how what would you suggest to them it's like first of all um um i was talking to one the other day like i don't know how you can be just a writer um and like have you thought about directing like no i don't know i just but like tarantino like he talks about that it's just when he's a director like he just surround himself by great people When you're writing, every time you do a scene, every time you do a transition, you're directing that movie. And it's in your head, like it's a nobody else's head.

I don't know how people, how directors can direct other people's writings. Like, I'm a writer-director. And I guess real directors can just pick up another script. But they don't have the passion. They didn't bleed through every line like I did writing this. Like I'll spend weeks. I've already spent on a rewrite of a script. I already spent like three weeks on one scene.

And that's like you bleed for this thing and rewrite it, rewrite it, rewrite it. trying to tell like there's just real and all that and and all that so you're already directing it man but you have no power is just a writer everybody every actor has a script in their back pocket there's millions of scripts floating around they're trying to get made and as i talk about as hard as is to make a movie it's hard to get people to watch it as hard it is to write it and finish a script and edit and have it in a form for people to read it it's even harder to get people to read that script. It's really hard. I'm lucky I've I've I got people around me now that believe in me and stuff that'll read my stuff and because of what I've done like I get people to read my stuff more but even then

even now it's really hard. I got scripts out there that that I want to make and I got out to people and like they haven't read it yet because it's from people don't want to read and so there's you have no power and then when you do write a script and somebody reasons somebody wants to make it now you're just giving it to them and now what's it going to turn and like is it just a money thing are you a professional writer, like in a writer's room where you're writing for a TV series and you just do your thing because you're paid to do that and give it away. Yeah, what's this like white paper concept of like Netflix? Have you guys heard of that? People just kind of talking about like just like a one pager like it's specifically written for Netflix type of deal where it just loses its

creativity. You know, it's like you're only writing it just to kind of score a position, which isn't necessarily a horrible thing. But maybe it loses its like luster. loses its flare, loses some of the art. Yeah, that's writer for hire stuff, I think, is what you're talking about. And especially for NipFlex in particular, which is, it kind of hurts me in the soul. It's like they have a thing where you got to, I hate exposition in writing where you, exposition is where you explain what you're doing. Yeah, because remember, I told you last week that we have to go to the thing.

And it's like, you're telling us. Because of attention now, is that why? Because of attention. You got to repeat the plot throughout the movie and all that because people are on their phones and doing all that. and it loses the art and a lot of that. It's like through the rip they make that as a big example, right? We're doing this robbery, the rip or like throw out it

and they have to reiterate like to people that are doing their dishes and that are doing their laundry. Like, oh yeah, this is the movie that we're in. And it explains to you what movie you're in every five minutes. And Joe Carnahan's been a mentor of mine that he wrote and directed that. And he's like he was a master at doing that and not making it cringe. But that's you got to be great at that, man. Yeah, so he still does it, but it's not like obvious.

And that, that's the art. That's the art. And these things, too, like verticals and things. That's the Netflix and these guys are going towards. Right? They're looking towards these very low, like, how do we put three minutes to gauge your, and that's like when we talk about where those media going, where's the art of filmmaking going, it's like to non art.

It's going to stick figures. You know what I mean? I want to explain vertical because I think some people, Some people don't know what verticals are. And those things get a lot of views. I don't think tape was right, though. Like, it is going there, but I don't think, I think there's, there's this analog bounce back right now.

And there's this thing that everyone's looking for real stuff, you know. But there's still going to be a market. Like young people looking for verticals, which is a TikTok, we watch something for, I don't know, like 60s to 90 seconds or something like that. And every second has hit a certain beat on every second. And it's all formulated that way. my wife left me for a CEO.

It's like shit like that. All the hoax are the right points and all that stuff. But it's just. It's a wave of what it's just an ebb and flow of what it is right now. Yeah. But people that I'm riding for and people that we are like, like, they're not watching vertical. So I'm not worried about that.

And how is, how are these two things possible at the same time, right? There's, there's people streaming doing next to nothing that people are watching and people are watching like huge numbers, right? And then there's people that say, well, we have an attention problem and that things got to be quick. But the streaming would leave you to think that maybe it doesn't need to be that quick. So it's an interesting thing.

I mean, I guess like maybe they're watching people out of like interest of like what the hell's going to happen next. Because some of these guys are going like nightclubs and hitting on chicks and things like that. So they think that X, Y and Z might happen. But I think people are even just streaming like their day. Like I don't know if I'm wrong. I don't watch a lot. No, you're right. People like just like stream playing like.

Obviously, they're gaming streamers, but there are people to just stream while talking to camera and talking to the chat, you know. Yeah, that's super interesting time. I think you gotta have high concept. And I like that, like Kim McGinnis, high concept. It's something that's interesting and you haven't seen before. Like horror, that's why horror.

And if you're not paying attention, you've got to go back and go, wait, what happened? Yeah. And you're going to have to review it. Yeah. I think the other thing is, is like part of that stuff that you're speaking to is it, is it that people are lonely?

And is it that we're so disconnected that people are like, you know, well, I have my little friend in the background that's talking while I'm going through my life and it's almost like I'm going to get a boba tea with him or whatever as he's streaming down the sidewalk. And I think there's that aspect of it that's a, I mean, there's a commentary on yourself that like if that's your interest, you ought to maybe look internally a little more. I think there's this bounce back though. He said, I'm talking about the analog thing. Like there's bands I'm into now that are, that are, they're a whole anti-AI bands like engineering 14. I'm really into that, this French band that's really cool.

this French Canadian band we're at the wrestling thing last night at TNA wrestling and watching that crowd and it's a communal thing of this crowd like just doing all the chance of the same like this is awesome this is and all the things you know just having

that effect on the crowd and being around a bunch of people doing the same thing theater's making a comeback where like Broadway theater where people like to be in a room now with people reacting to a theater I want to see John Bernthal and and Doug Day Afternoon and what a great experience that was and I saw Juliet Lewis and Rocky Horror.

And what a great experience that was. I think that panel like vinyl is making a comeback. Vinyl had its biggest selling year last year in the history of vinyl, like $2 billion. I think people are craving that experience with other people. And to be in movies like over your dead body, I was just in one South by Southwest. I was telling somebody the other day,

like South by Southwest audience crowd. Like we were a headliner there. and it was roaring from the beginning. Then you're missing the jokes. From the beginning and the end of the movie, like it is just the crowd is erupting and the shock scares and everything. It's like, I'll never experience that again, man.

But then all the other showings I saw, was still ruckus all the way through, man. And it's just that communal experience of people like sharing this thing together. You don't get that at home sitting on your couch with one person or by yourself. What are laughing by yourself, you know? People are craving that.

But just people don't know that that's out there. They're so disenfranchised. by IPs like the Marvel movies and all that and like they don't want to go and do this thing that's not interesting if but I think people are craving like a theater experience but I don't I think they've lost the trust in that my brother said you were awesome and uh over your dead body by the way incredible he's incredible man I'm really proud of that I'm proud to be a part I didn't I mean part of this is just the director I've worked with them before and he wanted to bring me out for the saying to be in a cast it's it's uh Jason C.

Gall, Samara weaving, Tim of the Offent, Julie, Lewis, and myself. That's a core of the group. Is it out right now? It was in theaters a couple weeks ago. Now it's going to, on May 26th, it's going to be on Apple, Amazon, and all that. It's bananas. But I'm promoting this like it's my own thing because I'm so proud to be a part of this independent film that's done what has done, man.

And it's art, right? To be like that wrestling last night, it's art to get people to react to you, to your performance and to give that immediate feedback. There's something so cool about that too, about being present in the room. Like what we experienced the last couple nights at TNA was like, you know, you see a guy and he's vanquished somebody and throwing him out of the ring or whatever, and he's facing you and you're cheering. And then there's the bad guys creeping up behind him.

And you are, I find myself screaming out, look out behind you. You know what I mean? And you're part of this whole group. Like the whole audience is another member of the theater that you're involved in. When dude clothesline that chick. Oh, my God. He's standing there and he just turned, bam, later out. Like the whole, whoa, that just happened.

It's so great, man. But that's the thing that the anti-lonliness. Yeah. It's like, can you get up? That's what I was getting back. You know, it's the thing that you're like, oh, I don't want to go to that thing. I'm supposed to go to tonight. And then you go and you're like, God, I'm so glad I went.

I had no idea I was going to meet you and interact. And you get these gems, these, these miracles that happened because you showed up. And this idea about like, I think that there is, you know, it's just like verticals or anything else. There's these waves and I think there is a backlash to going, we'd like to be at a concert together, enjoying the same thing together because there's an energy that I get from being around 200 other people that I can't get by myself in my living room. That's inner soul, right? From from back when we were a caveman around a catfire telling stories and reacting and having fun, like that that's part of our genetic code and that communal experience. Sounds to me like a really

important thing that you touched upon was that even when you, even when you make it and even for you got, both you guys, when you make it even further, that there always has to be stuff behind that. Because even when you beat Chuck Liddell and then like, oh, what are you do now, you know, and you beat this guy, you beat that guy, you climb these hurdles, you get over these milestones time and time again. And it'll just be like, hey, what movie you got next for me? It's going to kind of always be that. None of it's real. Right.

None of it's all magic show. The only thing that's real is right here with you guys right now. Like, you know, everything else is a memory that doesn't exist. And everything else is like either an anxiety or hope that doesn't exist, right? And so like that thing about how do you curate into right now, I think becomes for me, I think in our arcs of our lives, it's like that that's all that there is. This other stuff you can't stay mired to too much. Can't control it.

Like you made it. made it, you're done. Okay, and I don't go do anything anymore. Yeah. And then what, so that's, what's going to titillate you right now? Yeah. The thing that you got an award for three years ago? No, man, that's, that's dead. I can't eat that. I need nourishment now. I need spiritual energy now, you know? I'm in the prime of my life right now. Like, not when I bought beat Chuck Ladell, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like you guys take, I guess that's my point. It's, it sounds like you guys take great satisfaction. And you mentioned being proud of stuff. Like, I don't really hear people talk about that that much. Huh. I think that's real. Like, I think that's really cool.

I think it's like who, you know, all the things that come up, you can go left or right. Right. And you take enough rights and you're like, I'm glad that I behave that way at that time, right? And I think, and then, or conversely, I wish I'd have behaved another way at that time. And you start to, you know, create your own David. You know, what's the parts that's not David? And to create this sculpture of yourself of like what this is, you know, this new incarnation, you know? I'd have to think about that for something.

You said about pride and the pride of right now. it's because I suffered for so long as an actor and I suffer for so long as a writer and I still suffer every fucking day, man. Sometimes I'll look at a paper and just write two lines for like three hours and it's just for that to turn into something and knowing that that'll turn into something

then you get pride in that. But then like you said, it's fleeting. It's like this over your dead body or kill me again. Like it's not going to be in my Chuck Ladle moment. It's like, oh, do you remember when you made Kill Me Again? That was really great. You were on top of the world then.

and all that. No man, I got I got three other screenplays that I think are the best work I've ever done and I'm pushing towards those but like what he said too is just the everyday victories of doing that suffering like if you don't do something hard every day then then is it even worth it you know like if it did come easy if acting whatever did come easy like is it even worth it at that point like I think at a certain point in my life I was like you want comfort right you're a comfort seat you're cleave towards comfort and then you go oh these comforts are going to kill me right and then now anymore in my life i don't know the last 30 years in my life it's like if if you don't suffer well i don't have any fucking desire to be near you yeah i want to be around

people that know how to suffer right and and that put themselves in those positions it's like can can you suffer joyfully you know and that's a real thing you know and that's the to me that's the juice of life that's the nectar and people talk about serving like is it really subtle people talk well i guess it is but then you get used to it right sure and then you got to change it yeah it's like they talk about, I forget who did the study, but they're talking about neural pathways, change. Not because you do a hard thing that you're already good at, but a thing that you're horrible at that you really don't want to do,

and you do that anyway. To do the thing you don't want to do and do it anyway, how huge is that? That's why I'm doing this media tour, which I've been just saying yes to everything. I said yes to T&A wrestling, which I normally would have said no to. The biggest recluse in North America coming out and doing media. Yeah, that's what I said. And that's part of the thing. Like, okay, well, I need to get good at this and I need to enjoy this.

and learn how to love it. And I am. Like, I'm enjoying being on the road now. Like I did the tour I was in shoot. I was in Austin, then New York, and then North Carolina, then L.A., leaving out of a suitcase and just saying yes to everything. But like, man, it was a great experience. Time slowed down for me.

What they say about when you get old, time goes fast when you get old and when you're a kid, like time is so slow, right? You know, like a kid, like a year is like like eight years for us, right? Yeah. And why is that? Because of novelty. We don't experience novelty anymore, right? So they're trying to get that novelty in your life. Life gets tired if it's mundane. But like little kids are seeing new shit every day.

I never saw a yellow bus before. I never saw an oak tree before. Like all that. Like when you went to film this and you're in Finland, like he's like, I might live in Finland now. Like just all new experiences. Yeah. Enthusiasm of a dog. Yeah.

Yeah. Like every time you come home, it's like new to them. You know, I read a definition for enthusiasm. Because I think it goes so far. I mean, if you're enthusiastic, like, like, you know, that's, that's tremendous. That's tremendous, right? And it's encouraging to everybody. And the definition of enthusiasm is possessed by the gods, right?

Filled with the gods. Like, and I fucking love that idea, right? It's huge. It's huge. I'm grateful I'm here. I'm grateful I'm here right now. I'm grateful I'm in Finland. This isn't, oh, I got to just work.

When am I going to get home? You know, I got to take a four hour, five hour plane flight home. I hate that. Dude, all those people last night at TNA, they're like looking at red eyes and shit. They're like, I could get to New Jersey. And you're like, oh. And then their day tomorrow is like, whatever, you just like gray all day. But that life, you know, it's the invigoration of that life too.

And the cool thing, too, about that is like, they're going places in its family. And it's like, the more we go, the more we live, I mean, you guys go anywhere. And it's like, you walk into a place in Austin. And there's family there. people that know you and love you and care about your well-being and you doing like and that's tremendous man i never thought until i got decades old i was like i never knew that any of this would be important you know i thought all i was shooting at the wrong baskets i thought all sorts of other shit would be important that's what i love about watching your story mark is because you're

always reinventing yourself you're always changing you're not staying any ruts even your ideas of fitness changes for month the month new information and all that like like you're not rich at all that's why it's so cool to watch you man like new information yeah i'm going to change Yeah, try to just keep, you know, I guess keep, keep it fresh, but also just like keep learning. Yeah. You know, and whenever I try something new, I'm not very good at it. So then it's. And you get all the hate and I love that.

Yeah, a whole learning process happens with that. Oh, you suck at this. Yeah. Of course I do. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I'm supposed to be graded to that out of nowhere. I love that too, though.

You try so much that it's like, if anybody's critically, like, well, the most comfortable place Mark Bell is, is with other people being critical and being mouthy about it. Like it doesn't matter. It's just not, you know, this incarnation of you, though, as like a superhero for Marvel comics or something is beautiful, man. Yeah, you know, growing up with two older brothers, there's nothing anyone can do to me that hasn't already been done. They fucked me up so much that it doesn't matter anymore.

You know, Keith, how long have you been writing? Because, like, I think sometimes people, when somebody says they're a writer, they think they need to have wanted to do it forever. They have to be a J.K. Rowling, right? So the identity of a writer, how long has that been a thing for you? Well, that's a great question. I started probably pre-COVID sometime, probably like I'll just throw a number out there, like 18, 17, 18. Wow.

But I'm a horrible writer. Not 17, 18 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I can barely write a business email, you know, and then my grammars, I've gotten a lot better now. Okay. I've read screenplays before, and I know dialogue from. acting and I just started putting stuff together.

It's part of the story though. He's not telling the whole truth. The whole thing is like ever since I ever known him, he's an avid reader. He's voracious. Right? And so if you know a story like that, the way he has been just a junkie for the story, like, and that's always, you never see him without a book somewhere. And so what, I don't know, what kind of training is that to be able to tell story later?

Yeah, I think it's more watching movies, though. And thank you, Tate. But if you love movies, Tarantino talks about, he just loves a movie, he knows movies, he loves movies, if you love movies, just write the movie you want to see. And you talk about suffering. Like, so I'm not good at writing, but I'm going to spend forever writing a movie I want to see.

And when it goes a direction I don't want it to go, I'll bring it back and go a direction I want to go. And that's the suffering over it where like, I was talking to Joe Carnahan, like he's helping me edit one of my screenplays and like, And like, now it's my turn to write on it. Like, I got to warn you, I'm a really slow rider because, like, these rider room writers, these guys are riders. They'll just like, okay, we need episode eight, and it's about this, and this happens on this.

And I cannot do that. Yeah. But I can feel like emotion in my head in a color, and I can write that color. And I can turn it something. Once it veers off of that color, I can bring it back. Interesting. Yeah. But anybody can do that.

Like, really, like, I'm not, like, I was horrible to English and, and, you know, and, school and in college like barely got seized whatever that kind of thing but a new dialogue and I know like we're talking right now like you could write this like well you say something well how do I respond to that that that's writing that's when it flies and when the characters this is the high that I'm chasing and it doesn't happen all the time but when you got characters you know these characters we know them because they're you but you build them out they're all just different sides of you and when you start these characters start telling you what they're saying and telling you what's happening and you just can't keep up with the writing of the character talking to each other that's

the high that I'm chasing every single day and it happens when it happens man that that's just magic and then like kill me again um Charlie um the serial killer I wrote the beginning and and I just threw things at him and he just he wrote the story for me you write a lot more than probably what's in the script right because oh like really shaping the character so the character you know people are only seeing x amount in the movie maybe the maybe the characters in an entire movie for like eight minutes or something right but you probably wrote like a lot of stuff explaining the guy's backstory how he grew up kind of stuff that's more that's more to your question too and how i'm i'm not like a traditional writer where i where i outline the screenplay

and then i follow the outline i can't do that i've tried to i just can't do that it's not inspiring to me so i wrote kill i wrote killer love stories i wrote that i've probably written 300 pages on it for a 110 page script. Wow. This one screenplay that puts it in perspective. Yeah. And a screenplay is so different too. And you don't really realize how much stuff is missing from a screenplay.

There's a lot of interpretation, right? It's like it's just like lines. And you might have in your head, and that's probably the reason to write and direct, you might have in your head on how someone should potentially deliver those lines. But then you have the art of the actor coming into the whole thing. I go down this rabbit hole forever, man. And once you ride it to and that's why I do this. the reason one that I'm editing too is like now you take lines away because um because the lines are

there to they're kind of telling you telling everybody what's going on right now but the magic actors don't really want to believe it not actors don't want to say a lot of stuff um benisa del toro is famous in cicorio uh he took out many pages of stuff like i don't think he was i don't think he says me i don't think he's actors don't want to say they want to they want to act they want to be the thing like yeah like you want to you want to present something and just a look and just a wink and just a just a look away just something like that like you don't want to say it and to be able to take lines away and to tell a story in a different way through the camera moment for something like that that that's a beautiful beauty in it yeah yeah but back to you were saying like anybody can write

like that's why I tell everybody and I bug everybody about that anybody can write if you like movies you want to be a writer you can do it man it's not like I want to do it and I did that for years I did that for years I tried to get other people to write ideas I had and know and whatever and I tried to like, oh, you're a good writer. Why you just write that? I got an idea about the thing. I'm like, because I can't do it.

So I probably wasted 10 years with that in my head until I finally started doing it. So you do it now to feed yourself five years from now. Yeah. And also the thing about writing too is I think that there's a misconception I'd always had that it would be simple in a thing. You know, you hear somebody and they go,

oh, we wrote like a rolling stone in seven minutes or whatever, right? Or something like that. But it's like this kind of writing that Keith Endeavors is, I mean, how many rewrites did you do on Kill Me Again? Yeah. And so I was writing until the day before we shot. And so you're writing it. You have your whole idea.

And then you're rewriting it and rewriting it until you can rewrite it from memory verbatim because you've been in it that much. And so there's all these iterations of it that it's not just this expression. It's like here's my gross expression. And then here's how, you know, it's like when comedians talk about it. They're like, you know, you've got to cut all the fat off the joke so it's potent, right? And so it starts out with this idea, this premise that's huge. And then it gets distilled down and then, whop, you can smack somebody with it. And then you're going to sit down with a lead actor and he's going to ask you questions about the character.

And are you going to have answers? Like, did you write just only what's on the page? And that's all it is. I don't know. You got to have answers. And that's when I first did that, I was pretty intimidating. But it worked out really well. Yeah.

Wow. ain't in a background, I guess, so the actor can get into the role better, right? Like, if he doesn't know. And all actors do that anyway, but to be in the right year, you're in a whole different depth of it, because you've created the character, right? It's like, I have to create a character. I have to go, okay, where did he get up today? What did he drive when he came to the store?

Who were his friends when he grew up when he was a kid? All that informs who he is today when he talks to the clerk. It informs what his motivations are. What do I get out of the scene? You don't have any scene that doesn't have any scene. have we go into a scene like we're all on a scene together right now we all came to this room with with a with a with an intention and motivation and then we're all going to leave this room did we achieve that or not and so yeah you had to know what that is yeah every single scene if it's not it's

wasted it doesn't need to be there because there's no tension then yeah you mentioned this last movie that you had the idea of like kind of like a groundhog day serial killer type thing does that Is that how most of your writing goes? Like it just starts with like an idea. Does it start with like a character? Like do you sometimes see somebody and you're like, man, that guy would be great to like have as a character in a movie? You know, because some people you meet in life, sometimes they're so charismatic or have personality where you're like, I think there's some cool features of that person that might be cool to write about.

I don't know. Everyone's different. To your second part, I steal a lot. Like I work in coffee shops. I can't work at home. I need that busyness. But I'll hear an interesting conversation and like, oh, I'm writing that now. Yeah.

A lot of people in coffee. Okay, this is fun. I'm just something they do I'm trying to write. A lot of coffee shops. Sounds like a movie itself of the guy that goes to the coffee shop. Yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of people have their dating app dates there. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And when you're sitting next to something that going on, like you cannot not pay attention. There's some really cool conversation. Yeah, yeah. And I had one recently where two people were talking about their significant others and they were there. Oh, yeah. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of field. The coffee shop he goes to and writes that too is like little college, like campus coffee shop. And so there's, you know, dudes in a dress with his girlfriend. And there's, there's all these, variety of characters that are in there that are these kids trying to figure out what life is or whatever and then there's keith like a stone neanderthal right now and who has outlived you know

employees that are there he's been sitting in that chair longer than people that have had jobs and have gone out and cycled into their next jobs like he's like a fixture in the place and then there's all this life it's hilarious to walk in yeah i consider them my co-workers honestly yeah the people at work at the coffee shop and we treated it like i bring them chocolate and they'll make me free coffee. Hey, did you try this? He'll read his ideas to him. Oh, well, I'll talk about that. Yeah. Hey, what do you think about this?

Yeah. Oh, that's great. They're my coworkers. Wow. But I got to get up and that. You're talking about routine. Like, it's also routine stuff, right? I get up and you get up, weigh yourself and go, go to practice, right? Or you go up, you go to your work, you do your thing. Like, like, if you just let yourself idle, like, okay, oh, right, whenever and whatever. It's like, no, no, I get up. I go to the gym, walk.

my dogs eat my breakfast and shower and get ready like I'm getting ready for work get my clothes and whether maybe I planned them the night before that kind of thing so I don't spend too much time thinking about it and I go and I try to be I'll try to be sitting down at 830 that's amazing at the coffee shop just that routine is great in my life that's really good thing to mention because I would imagine a lot of people that are probably more on the creative side maybe aren't always so organized I don't know most writers I know like I talk to like they do have a routine

you probably need to get work at this you have to execute right yeah you learn that like I know from like nine it takes me that but from my 930 to 1130 is my creative peak and that's my window to hit like new ideas

novel ideas dialogue whatever anything after that like you're just grinding metal and it's good for editing it's good for other things good for man But usually I put on my producer hat after that, but it's hard with fatigue and all that. Now I'm trying to promote my movie and all that, but yeah. What would your advice be to people?

Because I feel like this younger generation is more used to internet, but they're also used to working with AI. And I think a lot of people are used to having AI do their thinking for them. And it makes me wonder, how does that impact someone who's trying to become a better writer, but they're leveraging AI a lot. And it's like that can probably mess with a lot of things negatively. So what are your thoughts when it comes to that?

Nope, I use AI a lot. You do? I do. Okay. But not for writing. Yeah. I use it. Research is amazing.

Not for actual writing. And if I experimented it a little bit because I don't want to be left behind, right? Yeah. But I've experimented with like having AI or a help a scenario or something like that. But what happens is novel ideas. When you come up with an idea in anything, not even just writing, like if you come up with your own idea about something, it's yours, and it takes root, and it's going to grow from there.

Something like a psychologist tells you something about how to direct your life. Like, you might take it, you might try to follow it, whatever. But if you're in the shower and you have the same idea on your own, then that thing's going to take root. AI's the same way. If AI tells you a plot or some kind of scenario, whatever, like that, then you just gave it over to that.

And like, it's not going to grow inside of you. but AI is amazing for like say if we're writing a Western or I did something around um balloons or whatever like what kind of engines do uh balloons use and how many burners do they have and whatever like or in the Western terminology like what are ways they call the referred to a gun in the old West give me something more colorful that kind of it's good for tools like that okay for for yeah like a right for you AI can write vertical like like why why do you even want to write verticals because I can just like tell AI to write this scenario and this happens on every second like AI can totally do that. Something non-creative like that. It can't tell a joke.

Actually, on top of that, if somebody feels, because I think when it comes to creativity, there's a lot of identity, just like I'm not a writer. Well, I'm not a creative person, right? So if somebody has this idea that they're not creative, et cetera, what would your advice be for that person to build a level of creativity or like to to develop their mind to have more creativity. Yeah, I'm not creative. Like, um, for some reason, Alex Honol came into my mind when you said that. Um, um, he's, he's, they said he's on the spectrum, whatever and he's really like type A and all that. And I imagine he wouldn't think of himself as a creative guy. But every time he climbed up that

mountain and also he's being creative. Yeah. I think that there, there's, that inside everybody. And I think everybody needs to find that with himself. You got to have an art. Everybody has an art, like whatever it is. If you don't have an art of self-expression, especially this, you talk about loneliness epidemic and all that. If you don't have something that drives you,

like playing guitar, doing whatever, and understanding that you're going to be bad at it at it. I think for writing is on screenplays. A good tip I learned. Someone told me, like, your first draft is always going to be crap. Just get it out there. Yeah. It's not always true, but just like don't have that pressure

of being good at the thing you're trying. Just express yourself. Kind of like we did with the rope today. Mess around with the rope flow. We just kind of twirl it around. It's like, well, how do I do this? How do I do this without looking dumb? Well, don't worry about looking dumb.

Just twirl it around. Worry about being looking dumb. That's a huge thing. Yeah, just get moving. Oh, this new generation too. Everything's recording itself. Like, oh, they're so worried about looking dumb, you know? Pressurized.

I think that's the thing. I think everybody's, we had to talk like this a while ago. Like, there aren't people that aren't creative. I think that's part of the human spirit. that's part of our condition is that you're creative but i think what happens is that people get scared yes and you and and so you let shame you let fear you let these other things that you're in control of you you can dispel those things control your life instead and say no i'm just not that way and and so i think a lot of life i mean fuck for me has been like how do you get the lie out of the

way about who you are who you're not whatever that is what your abilities are oh i'm just not a writer like and how do you get the lie out of the lie that you either told yourself or accepted totally or maybe someone else was telling you and you believe that right yeah all that childhoods i mean when you got you've got i think in a certain way you know what's what's beautiful about really productive artists that execute a lot is they believe in infinite possibility right they're they're more attached to that universal truth of infinite possibility than maybe somebody that hasn't express that much. I still don't think I'm good. Like I think

my role in over-your-dead body like I've gotten great reviews from it. Like I still don't think I don't think I'm a good writer. Like I just got lucky with Kill Me Again. Yeah. The other thing I'm looking at, oh my God, I'm embarrassed to get this out. But I don't know, but there's still the drive at the same time, you know.

Yeah. And I don't believe the way he sees himself. Right? He sees himself in a different way than I see him. But the drive to get, I want to good. I want to. And good isn't even a goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really. That's like, you know what it's like, it's like, that's the thing that's weird about it. Right. Yeah. Well, it's also, it's interesting because like when have you arrived? You're like when, like when? Good's a lie. When will you? Now that you're, now that you're successful. No, bitch, I got to get up again and

do this tomorrow. Are you, though I don't, there's not a thing that's finished. There's not, you know, I think I used to think about life was like a, a switch, right? Like, oh, now the light is on. No, it ain't. It's a dimmer switch. And it turns real slow. Slowly and it goes infinitely. Well, you don't know what life's going to bring in, you know? Things can be great for a long time and then things can slide downhill, just all that. I'll tell you something. When I fought Chuck Liddell, it took so much to do that fight.

The intense focus, the training, the corner, the focus in the corner before the fight, the focus being in the ring before the fight, and the focus during the fight that you can't break focus just for second that's always been i got ADHD man you can't break that focus um for he's the ice man at this time knocking out everybody yeah everybody for um for um yeah man that's so great who he lost he lost to jeremy horn or something that was it before this yeah um but anyways for for for for for for a long time after that like i had the question of myself um can i do that again i don't know if i can do that again um and there's that self-doubt like that was like once i just don't know if i can do that again And they didn't give me a fight for about a year

because they couldn't find somebody to match me up with. And I just had that fear. And like now I've grown mentally enough. Like, well, I do that. I directed a movie and it's really successful 90% and rot to me. Can I do that again? Can I write that again?

Whatever. And like just getting past that, you know, like not worrying about the outcomes. This is a... Exposition of staying on your square. That's exactly what that is. My whole game plan was keep my right foot on that square and not let him back me up on the corner.

So I say I'm walking right back to it. That was my whole game. Look where he owns the center of this ring and he makes the fight happen there. And the trick is, especially in those days, the octagonal is slippery. I knew there was more traction on that. So I'm throwing harder punches than he is. Wow. And so then.

So I'm saying, come on, come on. What's your focus like? To not get into a slug fest and to go, no, no, I'm going to own this space. You're going to have to come here. Yeah. And Keith. Come on. Come on.

Come on. I'm telling him to come forward. Who's a great response fighter. He fights good. He's staying on that thing. But now he has to come forward. Yeah, this is beautiful, man. And is that the game plan going in the whole time?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably help you conserve energy a little bit too, right? He's got to move a little bit more than you do. You're kind of standing. And I know him. And he watches every time he gets me on the warning track. That's when he goes. And like I know, once I'm on the warrant attack,

this is when his punches and kicks are coming. That's when he's letting loose. It looks like it's harder for him to load up that right hand because of what you're doing he keeps having to back up he's got it like he's got it wound up but he can't throw it he doesn't like to back i throw in those overhands just to scare him i know they're not going to hit him you know like i'm just throwing to scare him to get them back up um no i don't want to get back there i got to get back there you mentioned like the energy you know the energy that it takes to do something like that and then kind of questioning yourself

and having that self-doubt and i think um i think you know everybody probably faces that to some degree You know, you think of like... You talk about energy. I'll cut you all right now, but what people don't realize is right now in this fight, both of us are fucking dying. Our bodies, like a professionally got a poker face, and your job is to look like, but our bodies are just dying, like I just want to quit.

Just get me out of here. I'm not supposed to be here. Like I need to get out of this and just be able to fight through that and look like, and be able to look fresh and be fresh and throw your snapping punch. Every fighter. George St. Pierre talks about that. And he looks like he's always in control. he's just dying on the inside

that's what people don't understand about fighting like we watched that Strickland fight last week they were just both dying on the inside but still being able to be loose snap, pop defendant a takedown, shoot it. Maybe I don't shoot that takedown because I'm going to lose that energy, you know what I mean? And you go back to the corner and poof.

I think a lot of people probably face that when they make something, create something think of great films and you think of even Quentin Tarantino, you know, with some of the movies that he's made, some of the success early on was so huge. And then now, like the, you know, when he makes something,

it's got to be a bigger deal. You think of Sylvester Stallone writing Rocky. It's like, man, that was in 1976. That was a long-ass time ago. It's almost 50 years ago now. Yeah. So it's like, I think a lot of people probably go through that. They're creating, they're working on stuff.

And then you do create something awesome, which is great. But then what are you doing? after that, you have to still, you got to figure out a way to still continue to keep going. You got to get back to work, man, just like fighting. Like, I've been around Rashad Evans. Get back to the middle of the ring. Exactly. Get back to it, man.

This is the process, not the end. He's heard that a million times. But what Tate said earlier, this is the process right now. Like right now, we're living life. All right, Mark, you're getting leaner and leaner, but you always enjoy the food you're eating. So how are you doing it? I got a secret, man. It's called Good Life, Proof.

Okay, tell me about that. I've been doing some good life protein. You know, we've been talking on the show for a really long time of certified Piedmontese beef. And you can get that under the umbrella of good life proteins, which also has chicken breast, chicken thighs, sausage, shrimp, scallops, all kinds of different fish, salmon, tilapia. The website has nearly any kind of meat that you can think of lamb. There's another one that comes in mind. And so I've been utilizing and kind of using some different strategy, kind of depending on the way that I'm eating. So if I'm doing a keto diet, I'll eat more fat.

And that's where I might get the sausage and I might get their 80-20 grass-fed, grass-finish ground beef. I might get bacon. And there's other days where I kind of do a little bit more bodybuilder style where the fat is, you know, might be like 40 grams or something like that. And then I'll have some of the leaner cuts of the certified Piedmontese beef. This is one of the reasons why, like, neither of us find it hard to stay in shape. because we're always enjoying the food we're eating. And protein, you talk about protein leverage it all the time. It's satiating and helps you feel full.

I look forward to every meal. And I can surf and turf, you know? I could cook up some, you know, chicken thighs or something like that and have some shrimp with it or I could have some steak. I would say, you know, the steak, it keeps going back and forth for me on my favorite. So it's hard for me to lock one down. But I really love the bovette steaks. Yeah.

And then I also love the rib eyes as well. You can't go wrong with the ribby. So guys, if you guys want to get your hands on some really good meat, you can have to Good Life Proteins.com and use code power for 20% off any purchases made on the website. Or you can use code Power Project to get an extra 5% off if you subscribe and save to any meats that are a recurring purchase. This is the best meat in the world. And I wrote this morning and I'm going to write again today. It's the process and I'm enjoying every step of that.

It's not the outcome. It's not sitting in the theater watching people laugh. It should enjoy that, whatever, but now I've got to get back to work, or he's going to get depression. The most depressed ever seen Rashad Evans, I said, was after he won his title. I remember sitting with him, and he's like, he just had that feeling like, this is it.

Whatever, like, because the goal is never going to, that promise is never going to be fulfilling, you know? I think that it's an interesting thing too. The little wins along the way are the things, right? The one that, you know, you're like, you got to pay attention to process, not result, right? And if you're living for a result, if you're fighting you're going yeah it's for fight day well you're not going to be able to do that

because you need every every day before that day you have to love all those days those are the days to love because that's what your life is the fight day is just an evening you know so i tell young fighters this um what fighting is and this is what life is too um there's a point in a fight where you get taken down and and and you're losing the fight and you're taking down it and you're taking down it and you're against the cage and blows are coming in and in your body's like like the fight's almost over it hurts you're tired and you could actually just stop and the fight's going to be over or you got think i want to get my goal is to get to my feet and out to the center of the ring so i can throw punches again right but if you're just thinking about being in the center of the ring throwing

punches you're going to get cooked your goal is okay i'm the worst position against can't okay i got my left foot my left foot hook in big win get to my elbow okay got to me big one I got my right left under hook big win yeah man I got halfway up big win I'm in case oh I took down oh it's all right and you got to have that talk oh it's all right everything's okay okay I got I got my hook back in but you got to be positive like that you can and there's things you're trading for that yeah yeah because now you take you down and you put now I'm going to choose I'm going to get hit three times by the time I can get up to where I'm not getting hit like and there's these these things it costs At all costs.

And that's life, right? Like, things are against you, whatever. And, like, you're thinking, well, I got to get out of this debt and I got to get whatever. And so I'm going to be free and I'm going to have money and I'll actually be happy. No, I was like, okay, well, yeah, I got that new job or whatever. I had a good interview or whatever, just the little things on the way, you know. And that's how you can stay and everything, writing, acting, everything's like this. It's just enjoying the small big idea.

I did a good audition the other day. I sent it in for a series I really want. forgot i'm proud i did a good audition whatever there's a big win gone i don't care about it anymore now it's on to the next thing yeah what's one of the big differences with writing something like a series versus a movie yeah a series is um is anything you wish to do or have you had ideas for i've had ideas i just don't know about that like i watch movies now just because

it's easier to make a movie um you can you can um to sell a series and do a pilot and a treatment for a series like i don't even know that that's just seemed so hard to me but i know how to put an idea together for independent film attached an actor and um raise money for that i know how to do that um but a series like oh my god i got i've i'd love to have a series i'd love to have a showrunner and i love to be part of the thing like that but that's just why does it seem harder just because it's longer or like the the longer story that has to be told through multiple seasons. This is what it is.

Series is through studios. I'm not going to do an independent series. I'm going to give away a lot of control under that. And I got to go talk to them, please a lot of people. Tending on your budget range in a movie, like, Kill Me Again was all of me. I'm everything on that. I raise the money.

I directed. I helped design the set. I casted the actors. I did everything. And that found my own distribution. so I can do that I can't do that for a series and now if I got

if I got a bigger actor attached to a movie I know how to go to I know how to I know how to do all that stuff again I know how to I know how to raise money and I know how to go to independent producers like 824 XYZ there's a lot of neon there's a lot of independent non-studio things out there

that are more creator friendly 824 is not a studio oh okay yeah yeah yeah they're there I guess they are a studio now ish, but they're not like Warner Brothers, not linescape, they're not, you know what I mean? You do have a buddy though that's in some series.

He's in a couple series breaking bad. Oh, yeah. And The Boy. Andalorian. But those are everything, man. Those are the things too that are like those guys that create that, like Vince Gilgianners, like he, and he's doing pluribus now.

That's what he does. He doesn't do movies. He like, so he's got a team that's in that lane, right? And so if you're not in that conversation, it's like to break, you're breaking into a whole. Taylor Sheridan. He's got his series of...

Are you kidding me? If I could write something where me and Tate are mercenaries and all that and sell a series and all that. And we're just like, whatever, like, hell yeah, I want to do that. It's ongoing, yeah. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah, it does seem like a different challenge though because it's much shorter, right? It's like maybe 40 minute, right, per episode. But I guess... You said your son has done some shorts. Yeah. Yeah, so you do shorts. I did my first thing. It was a short and won some awards. got that and people believed i could do that so i just i did a series but um you get to if you're young

you can do shorts all day but like i'm not young but um there's not a big difference from doing a 20 minute short to doing an 80 minute feature yeah like raise a little bit more money and do that and sell that now you're monetizing the thing um you're talking about what i advise young people earlier is is that's it is shoot just just get like it's cheap to shoot so just start making content and shoot stuff and then when you're ready to make that feature and find a way to make a cheap feature that you can get out there what about where to put the movie just put it wherever you can that's the thing i mean it'd be nice to have this intent of like oh it's coming out in the movie theater well you talked you talked about you talked about mark plier earlier who has a youtube

following and all that and that's a future of movies is as you start promoting it before you even make it you have a following you're releasing clips you're releasing the shots you're releasing the shooting of it, all that, and people are into it before you watch it. The whole distribution game is upside down right now, people don't know what to do. They know what to do with the Marvel movies, but they don't know what to do with regular movies. And they don't really know what to do with the Marvel movies. Like that's all

getting hit. I mean, you know, obviously, right? Yeah. Yeah. They're suffering. The thing is, I think that, I mean, to tell people, like, everything, you know, there's gatekeepers everywhere. And most the gatekeepers are in your goddamn mind. And then there's real ones, too, that you run up to, right? And so you're fighting a couple

enemies, and you don't even know what the enemies look like and a lot of them look like you and you fucking don't know that you don't even recognize that face and then there's all these other spots but the big thing for kids for like i talked to a bunch of kids um at comicans and i was just at elementary school and like the thing is is it all looks like magic if you're on tv or something like that it looks like oh my god you know and and the only thing i can say is and that there's nobody there that's more special than you right there's there's not somebody that knows some kind of and so the only thing you can do is is access experience. And the more you throw your hat in the ring and you get more experience, filming,

finding angles, cutting stuff, and in whatever your venue is that you want to, you take part in that, you'll become good at that. And you become good at that. You'll be useful. And then you'll be, you know, you'll be able to execute. And to get those things together, it's like anybody can do that. And the biggest thing is like in any part of your life is take away your limitations, you know? How do you get on set so much? Because whenever I see, whenever I see people, in movies like consistently when i see people like like that same guys in the background again and that same guy like it's got to be yeah he might know i go i go that's on god in them i don't know but it must must be part of like just being a good person and being good to people that that's

being kind right first of all being capable being valuable like there's nobody that looks like tate there's no way that has a presence like tate on a film and get him again there's nobody that could have been fried cook like date like i i i couldn't have done that like and he almost not was able to not do that and like well maybe i'll have to do it but like i knew i couldn't do it like him so he's made himself valuable like that but what you said some diners where i've seen guys like with a hairnet on the russian kdb guy um but but you said people but actually people like to be around him right and and oh yeah we like tape we love tate and like he's perfect for that that's what happens so much that's one of the biggest things about film is that i remember darren prescott

he goes uh he goes the biggest thing here i mean First, you come with a skill set. You know, okay, I can do the bit, right? And he goes, the next biggest thing is, are you cool to be around for 16 hours a day? You know what I mean? And that's a huge thing. I remember there's a kid.

I was at Logan's gym at Deuce down in L.A. And there was this kid from South Central and he's tatted from his eyes to his toes. You know what I mean? And he's 19 or whatever. And he's got a channel and he's doing, you know, spoofs and all the shit that I'm like, don't do that shit to me, then.

You know what I mean? And he goes, well, what do you think I could do to, what's the best thing to do to be an actor? You know, I want to, I want to get better at things. And I thought about, and I go, heal yourself. If you're not looking to heal yourself, you're going to be broken in ways that you're not going to be able to navigate when you get into hard spots, man.

And you're not going to have anything to give anybody else. Look towards healing. And that's, you get a clean slate, find as clean as slate as you can to go forward. And I think that's one of the biggest parts of it is like, all this other shit, like the movies and the, wherever you live like all that's i mean it's it's all uh wallpaper it's not this you know i mean and in that way it's like you can't make it all matter that much because if it matters too much

you get precious of losing something and then you're living in fear and then you're waiting for a phone ring and if that phone doesn't ring who does that what does that mean you are are you worthless do you have any value like what and all that kind of stuff that's all a fantasy that's going on that actually kills people i mean i know a guy that was a huge actor like up to 2007. He'd been waiting for the phone to ring. He ends up hanging himself, leaving together, leaving behind two kids and a wife.

You know, because you get hung up in that stuff. And those are the tragedy. What's the best thing you can do? Heal yourself and know that none of it's that big a deal, I think. Yeah, but there's this world right now where that's what he's talking about. It's really sad. It's because productions are overseas.

Yeah. If you're a character actor that's worked your whole life doing, like the real actors are guest stars. they're they're the best actors they come into a a procedural series CSI or whatever and they tell the plot to the to the main actors the main actors just have to react off of what they're saying they're so they make a living off of that and now you're now you're 55 years old and you're not getting those roles anymore and like what do you do like you haven't learned how to produce you haven't learned how to be a director maybe your young guy like you can switch and pivot you know but like I feel bad for a lot of those guys you know the phone's not ringing any way more because you're not valuable enough to bring to Finland to shoot this series or England or whatever you know it's not really bad for those guys and then and then where's your ego at yeah can you go and sell houses because maybe you need to go to the car lot and sell cars now to make up for until you get how to pivot can you can you can you do that

like and that's like a lot of people who I'd rather die you know and that and that's a choice yeah yeah and that is what's out there if you don't you got to pivot and that's where I'm at my movie doing these doing movies and writing thank God I started when I can because like I'm we're talking about earlier it's kind of too late for me to pivot again you know like a like I spend five years learning another skill right now I have books of poetry by Keith no no no I'm all in on this man and this has got to work and yeah like it's easy to have a feature and have it fail when you're younger but like right now like not like I got to hit this and I got hit the next one I got to hit the next one so there is that pressure but then also

letting yourself like seek failure and that's what I always been like as an actor like you you when you do a scene like like you can curate it and try to make or you actually just try to be bad which is always the best way um you say try to be bad what do you do julia louis is my hero she's an actor's actor she believes in everything she does julia louis uh natural born killers um you know um just just California you ever see California I haven't oh my god you're gonna love that I can't she just she just she has no she she has no retention she has no ego she just goes and she believes what she's doing and she just goes nuts and just just lives a thing watch her in this movie over your dead body and counts on the director to bring her in like she's not trying to like oh i won't

look pretty here or i won't like like just just just go be bad yeah yeah she's going to go be messy and then you that's watching her the producer the director is going to have to clean it up if you want it cleaned up but otherwise it's going to be what it is and my character is something i've never been before i've never been this guy before i've been this guy but not in this way every decision was a different kind of decision I was used to making as far as acting decisions and like just go be bad and trust the director to make it tell you if it's bad when you're trying to be good that's when

when bad acting happens when you're trying to deliver a line I have to deliver it in this way it might not fit in with the music of the scene but I'm gonna do it this way because is why I rehearse it is what I and you're gonna react this way because I'm gonna do this yeah maybe maybe you don't react that way and am I gonna be able to blend and blend in with the music of the scene or am I gonna try make it my way. Think about that happens a lot, you know, when you go to show somebody something,

say, hey, you know, throw a right hand like this and then like, oh, like that. You know, they try to do it like well or they try to do it, you know, in their mind, really good or really explosive. And there's not going to be a punch that someone's going to throw that's probably going to really impress you guys. But that's what somebody has in their head. They're trying to like, oh, the coach told me to throw this punch. So I'm going to eagerly throw this punch the best I can.

And they'd probably be better off almost trying to throw it horribly. You know what you said, though, is really an analogy as to what I'm saying about acting. Like, if you're on fighting and like, I'm going to throw this, I told him I'm going to try when he does, I'm going to throw a right overhand and a left hook. And that's going to win this fight for me. And now I'm thinking about this right overhand and this left hook the whole time. No, it doesn't work that way. You got to be, you got to let it all go, man.

When you get rigid like that and trying to do your game plan, you see actors, you see fighters when they get towards the end of the career and they need to get this win and they get more rigid because they're going to follow this game plan no matter what. I needed this win because I got to pay my rent and all that that's when they get bad. It's when they're young and hungry and I don't get, I'm fighting the motherfucker. Blum, blah, blah, blah. Like that's the dog. That's the beauty of the MMA is just those.

If you can really get free. Yeah. If you can get free of the ideas of what's supposed to happen in the fight and you can just be in the fight. And that's something that not every fight I don't think gets to experience. I've never got to experience that raw in a fight before when it count. You can see that in the gym sometimes. But to be able to bring that in, like, I don't know, I think Cowboy talks about it. I think he's like, I think I've done that twice.

Yeah. Right. Out of 35 fights or whatever. It's like, we're talking about the special thing. We're talking about the Chuck Ladell fight. That was one of those fights where I was able to do that because my only thing was, I didn't come on with much.

I had a couple little things to do and I knew I could leg kick them. I'm just going to put my back foot on the sticky part of the ring. And just that was all I was thinking about and get back there, get back there. So it let me freed up to do everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Quick question. It's funny what you mentioned,

because I've heard Viola Davis mentioned that like a mistake. that a lot of actors make is like they'll have this intent of how they want to deliver something and it's they're now they're not acting with their partner right so my curiosity is when you guys are memorized learning lines so you understand and you're you're trying to make sure you know everything like it's second nature how do you practice without intent like do you just practice on your own just understanding the lines then when you get to the scene you let what come out come out with your partner or do you practice it in a bunch of different ways in whatever way and then you let what come out come out with your partner everybody has everybody has a different process but mine is

it's kind of what you said the first one is I practiced a certain way for sure okay um I'm going to come I'm going to bring this is what I'm bringing to the set and also um but then I I know that and I'm really confident that now I'm allowing myself I have the confidence of myself to like let it go and and switch and like it's not going to happen that way but also ad living there's an over-eared dead body there's a lot of ad-living there's that's what i was going to say the funest part is after you watch this to talk to him about like what all the like that weren't lines that were written that were just like they let the camera run yeah and that's really fun okay would you say that that's a mean would you say that's a skill yeah but that's also preparation you don't you don't just um

you don't just come up with stuff on the fly yeah like like there's preparation ad-living Were some of those ad lives, like, I haven't seen the movie yet, but were some of those ad libs things that, like, you kind of thought about before hitting the screen and then they came out? Or were they just wrong when they came out? A little bit of both. It's just a color, it's a flavor, like, what if I did this? What have I did that?

And you do that beforehand, and that'll lead to something else. But you got to have that thing there to pivot to and to add to the scene. Like, you want to bring, when you're doing rehearsals, you want to bring the thing to the scene. Like, there's a scene where I go to a Samara weaving, and she's tied up and I take Jason to the bathroom and it's written like I take Jason in the bathroom and and I come back to Samar she's tied up and we have this deal like I'm not supposed to touch her and It's written like where I go down and I squat next to her and

You're not supposed to touch me. He can't touch me. She says and it's written I'm not touching you And then the toilet flushes and I go get Jason back from the bathroom But I turned that into this whole thing Yeah, I'm kind of torturing and I'm playing with her and all that. I probably, we probably shot like, uh,

in two minutes, probably two minutes section of me just doing crazy stuff. And I don't know what made, whatever they chose made the thing, but, but I brought that to it, you know, and it wasn't like a rigid,

like a whatever, we just, I'm not touching you and then wait for the toilet to ring, toilet to flush, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But there's a lot of, more options too, right? And having to edited a movie and all that, like you start to understand that stuff. Now you're a collaborator on, You know, you know what they need and you know what they want. If you're doing a series of lines, you're doing a series of lines. Okay, let's do a series on that.

Like, I know what they want. They want stuff for the editing, right? Timothy Alphan is a pro, man. Timothy Olfa? Oliphant. Justified. He's an actor's actor. Yeah, Justified's a great series that he runs.

But like he knows, like, oh, this is probably going to be on the trailer, right? All right, let's do a series of this thing. And he gives a lot of different versions of this thing. maybe what the you can already kind of see it almost yeah yeah yeah and but now you're doing version are you just doing okay let's do a series do you just do the same thing over and over again the same way or are you doing things that just suck whatever like you got to be able to pivot and do different have different flavors and intentions and all that and that's when that's when you get into the beauty and the fun of acting and just like you drop a line or something and like the best things is

when we're acting and you drop a line and you dropped a line now I got a cover for that and all that a lot of times are the things that make the cut because that's that's real humanness like I stuttered on a line The coolest fucking thing is too is when you're in and like you like you have to like to your point you have to know

I have to know this almost like verbatim what they've written right and then I have to forget it and then I have to get re-inspired into it when we're on set together and it gets tipped off with the thing whatever he says or whatever that's huge you got to do

we got to give you one like that but then to go through and put your own fucking flavor onto it or just to be flowing with the actress or something like that and it goes and after they yell cut and everybody, the grips, the construction, everybody's fucking laughing is like,

you know, there's all those chances that you have in there to make this thing a whole lot of different things. Yeah. And that changes its timing. It changes emotion. Maybe you're supposed to be joyful. What if I went in and I'm almost crying?

I've just lost my dog. Like all that shit comes up and that becomes interesting then. You know what that makes me think? you have two is like doing podcasts i do podcasts with i'm doing a lot of podcasts from killing again and um like this is perfect man we're having a conversation with flown we have music here going right um sometimes like you'll start in a conversation with a guy and like and then they're pause like he's not in conversation with you and like i just said something whatever and like pick up on that

okay the next question i have is what like you you you're not you know what it is right it's like because you're just in conversation. Like, but you know what those guys are that are like, I remember getting interviewed back in the tough days and they're like, and it was like second interview and I go, oh, I'm not fucking doing this. Like, I'm just going to tell them whatever I think because these questions don't matter and they don't care about answers to these questions. They don't even know what they're fucking asking.

You know what I mean? This is kind of a new sport at that time even in that way. And I was like, oh, I get what this is. But to understand that like in podcasting is a trip because those guys are like, can we have this guy? and I've got 300 followers on my podcast and I got Keith Jardine here and I want to get through the

I want to satisfy these 47 questions I have so he'll have you know he's invoking a conversation and they're like okay and so when you grew up did you have a pet you know or whatever you know yeah that's fun but you got to overstand like where everybody else is coming from how do I meet them where they're at to get them what they need to you know the editing is like

such a huge part of a film and I think to your point what you said about you have to deliver like specific lines at least a little bit yeah because of like well now you might have steered the whole goddamn movie in a completely different direction or my character have certain takes right you know like I've done that with characters and they go that's where I know it's going to be too interested and I know I'm going to die in two episodes after this and they're like they don't want that much flavor on this character he's a component right and it's like there's all that shit too that you don't really know

you can understand. I can understand it now like I've got some experience but it's like there's those things that are going on. You want you to die and want people to not care that much and I don't want you that I don't want you that saucy and also I don't want them to care about you that much. They have to be okay to let you go right? There's all that

anyway. Tate has a deal with a lot of um he has such a presence that um like you'll read for a role like I'm not getting that role because yeah because I'm going to overshine the lead actor and they're not going to believe that this guy's going to get the best me and all that even if it was a good role like that that kind of sucks because yeah yeah yeah yeah reacher was like that with tom cruise i i was up for then and then they're like yeah no like

stephen seagall he wouldn't have me on his i was a guy i was so excited i was new and tom would have to stand on four apple boxes and he was the one that called it he was like this isn't realistic right what a cool guy stephen seagall though he you know kind of man no he was like i got called i got called back four times after i got the job to different producers and they go, you know, Stephen's got to be the biggest person on set. I go, well, he's like six, eight, and 350 pounds. I mean, I'm only as big as I am. Like, he's going to, he will be big boy.

They're like, okay, we just want to tell you. And then they call me back the next day. You know, you know, he's going to win the fight. I understand why I'm here. I know what this is. Yeah. And they're like, and then Stephen looked you up on YouTube. He doesn't, we can't have you in the job.

What the fuck? And that's part of the thing is because he's gotten taxed by Judo Gene LaBelle put him to sleep before, right? Because he started running his mouth. And then so anybody that has an actual skill set, he's like, I don't really want to be around that guy because he likes to abuse people. He's a hurt. Anyway, that's a whole other story.

I had an audition for Steven Seagal once. And it was a torture. He's torturing me or something. I'm trying to make me say something. And I heard those stories too. So I went to the audition. And I did it in a way that like I wasn't scared. All right.

Or go ahead and do your thing, whatever like that. It was a good audition. but they called me back and they wanted to do that all right but we didn't really believe it whatever so I did it pretty much the same way and like we just don't believe that you're scared that's it man this is what I'm gonna do take it or leave it I'm not gonna go beg to this guy because I heard his stories about him I'm from hearing this I'm kind of curious about this I heard Michael B Jordan say once that you know if you're an actor that you need to you need to be mindful about the roles that obviously you audition for and the roles you take because it could lead to consistent type casting for that type of role, even if that's not what you want to try to, like, a lot of people want to expand into different things. So what are your guys' thoughts on that? If like, like, let's say that people see you as something

and you're like, I know I could be seen as that, but I want to do this. We're chomping at the bit, right? Me and Tay, like, good for him, good for Denzel when he talked about not taking certain roles like that. I mean, you're right? But there's very few guys that are Leonardo DiCaprio or Michael. So you got to be a certain type

Those guys are certain guys that get asked into Hollywood. Most people have to write themselves in if you want to stick around for a while, right? You've got to be a John Favreau that wrote swingers or you've got to be Dam, and An Affleck that wrote, you've got to be one of these guys. That's why I started writing. Otherwise, you don't have any agency there.

And you are waiting for, but Michael Be Jordan, yeah, but that's a different word. That's a very, that's a small percentage of actors. Yeah. Your type cast, you're cast, right? I'm trying to have a job. True. Right.

And then he's up a different. He's like, I'd like to. He's been in the game for a long time. I'd like to manicure my career to be a certain. John Carlo Esposito, there's a G. That guy, he'd been around. When did you see him first? People say, Breaking Bad.

Great character in Breaking Bad, man. He was incredible, right? And then he see him in Jan V. And then he see him in Mandalorian. Three shows that also tape Flutcher's in. But, you know, people would see all of a sudden he just blew up. But man, you look at Miami Vucy. in 1984 and and he's the valet you know what i mean and so it's like there's dudes that

that they're like that they're like that they've been grinding it for they're not 19 and got a shot you know and and those are the more for me the more interesting actors because they've had a life they've had a full life that they've had to say michael bdorton's been typecast too like he was yeah follow son or whatever as a hot sexy bad motherfucker yeah yeah that would be great other than you know he's been he was like he did fruitvale station with cougar he was like He was acting when he used a kid too. He had multiple seasons on a... What was it?

What was that show? Multiple seasons is... I forgot. But it was an HBO show. But he's been in it for a minute. So you got to fight out of it. One of the nicest compliments I had was on working on Gen V. And one of the producers and one of the writers, two different people come up to me after.

I'm doing all my shit. And it was great. Everybody's cracking up. It felt such... Those were good, good days. And dude comes up after I'm going the bathroom. He goes, dude, he goes, you got to get on a sitcom or something. And he goes, your timing, your comedic performance is incredible.

And I was like, fucking say more. Let's go. Because that is the thing, but you've got to create that for yourself. I know that about me. Because I look the bit to be the guy on the top of the train with the shotgun. If you want to be something other than that, you better show this guy a different thing than that, you know? It's the wire. The wire.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. God, what a bunch of studs that show brought out, right? So I'll turn down. That's interesting too being an actor when you're really young. Yeah. Yeah. Tremendous.

Yeah, I'll turn down like the Aryan thing that I always get like if it's, if it's not interesting. Yeah, there's stuff I won't do. And it doesn't pay a lot of money and all that. But it's a good thing.

Yeah. I got you. But yeah, that's our type cast, of course. Like over your dead body, I'm playing that guy again. I'm playing the Aryan prison guy.

But it's interesting and funny. Okay. Hell yeah. And he's got a hot, hot, hot sex scene. so you guys know i do have a sex scene did have intimacy coordinator and all that yeah yeah get the baby oil let's go yeah what about uh this uh documentation documentaries

does that appeal to either one of you guys yeah yeah i want to do one about brain injury and brain health and uh you know talk fuck talking those guys last night i've been thinking at your brother god bless man um you know i was talking to this woman she's maybe 50, Candace, and she's been around for a while, and she's, you know, everybody's had hand injuries if you're arrested. It's like, it's not, that can't. And then the only way that TBI ends untreated is with suicide. Like, that's just what happens.

And there's ways you can mitigate that. There's ways you can elongate a career. There's ways you can heal from that. And nobody's ever talking about that to us. I mean, I remember 20 years ago and going, you know, with Leonard Garcia and Cowboy after practice and they're like, hey, you want to go get lunch? And I go, yeah, sure, where are you going to go? We're probably run through Taco Bell.

And Keith and I were kind of early adopters to nutrition and to paying attention to these things. And I was like, you guys are eating what? And like, but that's the same thing with brain health. Nobody was talking about that then. We're the only ones talking about nutrition back then. We're the only ones talking about brain health. Not in that way where it's like, you need to address this.

Because it's not, if you're unlucky enough, it's already happened to you. You just don't know it yet. And it will slowly express more and more over. your life. And so that's the kind of documentary I'd like to do is like how different people are coping with that, living with that. You know, one of the most encouraging things for me when I was really, really hurt. And I was like, I don't think I'm going to get better. Because I saw a lady and she was on a TED talk or something. And she was like a biophysicist. And she'd had a stroke and she couldn't speak for two years. But eight years later, she's given a TED talk about her recovery.

And you can't see that she's been hurt, right? And to go, okay, you know, one of the most power things the lady said she a friend of mine we were on a zoom and uh there's a bunch of people and and they said how you doing and i go yeah i don't know i'm fractured whatever but it's just it's okay you know what i mean it's day by day and all that and and after everybody's off the call she stays on with me and she's this she's like 70 years old a mentor of mine and she goes uh you know tate you you look at this thing about brokenness about yourself and she goes i just want you to consider that the body has a tendency towards healing. Like you cut your arm,

you don't have to do anything and your body starts stitching itself together and maybe what you need is just to find your breath and patience. And that goes a long fucking way. And so those little things, that's what I'd like to make a documentary about. Is that kind of thing?

You know, you do enough of these things where it's like, yeah, we're in action movies or this or that, but I'd like to do something that matters that really impacts people that are lost, that there's not a voice for. I wonder if iBogaine is something that... Yeah, did you see wave, It was helpful, you know, with that.

Yeah, I did see that. You know, those are war veterans. Yep. But I wonder how it works for like a... It's tremendous. Did you read the Stanford study? No. So there's a thing called the Stanford study where like, I think there's eight of these guys that were

spec ops guys that had bad damage, like explosions and stuff. They map their brains. They can see it. They can see the damage. Up at Stanford, they send them down to Ambio Life Sciences in Tijuana. and they go through ibogaine treatment and a 5MEOD and T treatment and they go back and they map their brains

and the doctor's like, thinks there's a mistake because they're different brains than were there 10 days earlier. Wow. And so you're seeing neurogenic synaptogenic regeneration. You're seeing, you know, talk about neural pathways. I know testosterone can be a big one too because I think when you have a TBI,

I think a lot of times your natural testosterone doesn't get produced the same way anymore. It's one of the first measures that I went to this one clinic and I don't know. I was maybe eight months hurt at that time. I mean, fuck, from my last significant injury,

you know, it's like that had been creeping up on me for years. He had a movie injury that really rocked his world. Yeah, you got knocked out on the movie set or something for a little? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm free guy.

I was out for like six minutes or something laying. And it was crazy. Anyway, and now crazy for me because I'm not there, right? But my friends that are holding me, I was like, ever grateful for them.

But that kind of stuff is like, when I started looking into like what getting better might be I did M-E-R-T, which is brain magnets. They shoot magnets in your head and they try to level the alpha, delta, beta, theta waves in your head. And they get one of the things I did, I got blood tests. And they, the nurse, and I'm just looking at the ground. I can't, it's too bright. Everything is fucked. And she goes, your testosterone is 20.

And I go, okay. And she goes, and your estrogen is higher than mine. And I go, okay, and I get a little smile. I go, great. And she goes, she goes, why great? And I go, because that's something that we can change. Right. Right.

And I didn't know that I talked to doctors later. They go, sometimes people get diabetes when they hit their head. Their HPT axis, I mean, you smash your network and everything changes. And they don't really account for that in Western medicine. I went to a doctor at UCLA after my injury, and they said, take fish oil. If you're not better in six months, eight months, come on back. and we'll give you Alzheimer's medicine. And I go, you're telling me to kill myself.

Like that's insane. I said, what about hyperbaric, stem cells? You know, all these. And they go, we don't do that. And that was kind of what's out there. But what I'm saying is there's a lot of help out there in ways that you might not know about, but it's available. Super cool.

Yeah. Just kind of on a topic of documentaries. So you got some ideas and some things that you want to participate with him. Well, that's when we've been talking about the Ibogaine specifically going down to I began taking people to go through that tour and getting that out there. I just like, I just like, I like telling stories from, when I write, I write from a single point of view most of time, all the time. And that's what I like when I watch movies is like I watch taxi driver.

I like the wrestler. I like watching a guy go through this experience from beginning to end and all that. And so I can live, I live that guy's life. I like the idea of documentaries. like that like a guy with head trauma and watching him go down to ibegain and go through that experience we've experienced it and we've seen the people changing people like we go down to ibegain you're with a group of people i remember my group of people we're still on a group text and it's like they're dead zombies scared to death to do this thing but like the trauma they're bringing

PTSD and head trauma was it's all the same thing um and then the look on their faces afterwards man the way that changed their life and it's last. And he talked about that Stanford study. Tate's done a lot of things that were going through his journey where he was he had the moment of brightness like, oh, this was like to feel good, right? And it was almost torture and almost a bad thing

because now he's down again and he saw what that upside looks like. And then finally when he did Ibegain, it's a lasting thing until this day that like he's a changed person. And so many people that are going through, that that doesn't know what that upside looks like there there are those things that's the thing is

when you get a little bit better you're like oh the m er t made me feel a little bit and and then you slink back and you're like this is i'm going to be it's sycifice and i'm going to be sliding down the hill all the time and and uh to have something that's sticky and you know the other thing i'll say with that is like there's not a one-off it's again a dimmer switch and it's like that with with proper nutrition with ice baths ice baths were so helpful towards centering my mind again like because I would wake up in the morning it would just be as soon as I would get conscious

before my eyes open it's man just in my just reverberated for 45 minutes and I would go out get in the ice and then you just got to get your shit together in the ice right

and so and you're in a different place vocally but like you can do things that are assets to yourself you know and where you're not just sitting and melting and going I'm this is I'm going to expire here that's what I begin was really cool for me too

is like and it's seeing other people too is like we all have serious traumas and you're talking about whatever we're talking about our belief and and and doing things in our life and all that but we hold ourselves back and it's all the traumas we have from when we're a kid like and people have that and they don't know they have that right right but then we put brain injury on top of that it just seems to magnify everything and that's the down and then you put drugs on top of that because how do you take care of it when you just got a ringer on set well you take some oxies and have a few drinks with the boys. And one of the assets that I had was that I was

already sober. I wasn't involved. And so they say you drink on a head injury. You get, you have another head injury. That's basically what's happening. One of the guys that I want to ambio with, he was a bad drinker when he went there. And he goes, I saw me a year later. He goes, you know, one of the great things was is like the alcohol switch just turned off. And, and, and I thought, what a trip that is, you know, what a bet, right? And so there's this, this, there's, is this, there's, There's magic out there in these plants. Yeah, Iboga is a root from Gabon, Africa, right? And so it's this ancient, ancient medicine that has been getting used

and that originally I'd started hearing about it like 25 years ago, like being in the recovery business for a long time was you'd hear about guys that would get off dope and wouldn't have any kick from it, right? They could kick dope without any withdrawal symptoms and feel clean at the other end of it. And so they were having great success with that. And then these guys vets, veterans exploring,

treatment solutions, Marcus Capone and his wife kind of put together. And I went to one of their symposiums down in San Diego. And that was a big, big turn. Those are the guys that really pushed like what just happened with Trump and all that towards that becoming like something that they look at, the FDA looks at or whatever. Brogan went down there. Be helpful. Yeah. So yeah. Well, I was curious was what was the company that you did this through? You did it through. Ambio. It's called AMBI-I-O. Yeah, was this recently for you guys or how long ago? Yeah, about three years ago, I think we experienced it. Is that? Yeah, we were talking about Kielm again.

Yeah, I did, I did it in July, and I wrote Kielm again in August. Seriously. Do you think, well, I mean, do you think it had, do you think it helped with that aspect? Absolutely. Yeah. I saw a lot of the, funny during the experience, this is a psychedelic experience, but the psychedelics are just a byproduct and it's not fun. Like people that Iowa has go.

the time I'm scared to do an abbe game like it's it's a masculine thing that just kicks your ass um he just did it recently i haven't even talked to him about his last experience but um um yeah like i saw but coming out of that i saw all the roadblocks that i had in my life that was really apparent in fighting where i won all the fights i was supposed to lose and i lost all the fights i was supposed to win and and how do i keep that in my life right now like to uh to be able to be a winner and to be a front runner. Like, I've never been a front runner. And how do I, how do I be that guy?

So I learned, but that's just a small part of what it was for me. But you talked about how it led to the movie. That's it to be a confidence on set as a director. The most intimidating and scary thing I've ever done in my life is directing a feature film. Getting out of the car every morning, you got this, oh, you got all these professionals. 50 professionals. 50 million people that are high-level professionals. And you're supposed to be the adult.

Yeah, yeah. And there's always that silent pot. Like, where there's a question, and there's a question. And like, I don't know the answer of this question. And everybody's looking at you in that silence. You better have a fucking answer right now because you're the leader of the ship, you know. Yeah, so the most scariest thing I've ever done, man. But yeah, help.

Yeah, after after I went, I was, I came back and I was like, you must go. I mean, he was out a place where he's like, can't get on planes. And like, there's all, I mean, there's all these obstacles that come up for everybody. that has significant chronic damage over time. And there's freedom from that. Now I have one more question about the Ibegain. Now, you know, a lot of people, when they hear about Ivigand, it's to break addictions, it's to break substance abuse.

You mentioned the, you know, guys on dope off, right? What if somebody doesn't feel that they have specific, like, drug addictions, but is there a reason to even try Ibegain if you don't? If you think that there is, what would that case be? I think, well, what they do right now, Ambio has a, they have a house, they have like six different houses, I think, right now. And then they have one in Majorca, Greece also.

But one of their houses is Parkinson's disease and early onset dementia. And they're giving like milder doses to those people and having some great results and taking away tremors and some of the, some of the effects of Parkinson's, et cetera. So they're looking into that. They have a drug house that's just for people that are rehabbing out of drugs. And then they have like a veteran's house or a first responders house kind of thing. Or people, you know, combat athletes.

And so there's these different lanes that it takes up. What I would say, though, like they ask me, like Americans for Ibogaine is a thing that's the thing that Brian Hubbard does. And said, would you be an ambassador? And I said, sure, I mean, I want to help as much as I can. But I don't think it ought to. I have different ideas about it. If you're not ready to kill yourself, if you're not at the end,

don't go. Don't fuck with it. I think the medicine finds you if it needs to. I think the medicine finds you. I wouldn't say don't go for sure because. But I've seen people die. I've seen people come and get stuff exposed to them. They go down for a horrible head injury

and they find out some stuff that happen to them when they're a kid and they can't hold that space and they find that they got to go three months later. and so there is that it's cardiotoxic there's another point of that there's it's not without hazard it's not where ayahuasca is like really big for spiritual tourism right

for all these nerds that are like let's go and do ecstatic dance and what like whatever right it ain't that buddy and they're and it's gonna it costs you know I mean in ways that maybe you're not gonna understand in ways I don't understand I mean this is a new so when I went down I thought I'd rather not be here.

And so if I die here, cool. If I get better here, cool. That was almost the perfect space to be in to go and take part of that, right? Imagine the burden if you knew all the answers. Of course. You know what I mean? I think that's what's happening is like you're learning so much about yourself. But imagine if you knew everything about the world that we, you know, there's all these

conspiracy theories and all these things, right? If we just learned the straight facts, if we, We were able to see it through some sort of plant or something like that. It would probably be a burden. It would probably feel really heavy to know the truth. Perhaps, but perhaps there's fourth dimensional answers to these third dimensional problems that we live within. Right. And perhaps this is all an illusion that we don't have any idea.

I heard Rogan the other day talking about somebody on a podcast took, not MDMA, but something similar, I think it was. And they were gone in the podcast. they were high for like 10 minutes. This is like a biohacker guy? No, no. It was like, I don't remember who it was, but this guy took this substance. And he was out for like 10 minutes.

He was a super high. But he thought when he came back, he thought he was gone for six months. DMT? DMT, probably. I think I might have been DMT. He thought he was gone for six months. And he, he had this whole like life.

He was gone for six months. He was like working underground and working for these people. And everything seemed so real to him. And then there was another person who's reported similar situations like that with this drug. I don't think it was DMT, but it was something similar to that. This other person thought that they had children. It was a woman. She thought she had children.

She, it seems so real to her that when she woke up, she told her parents how proud she was because they're such good grandparents. They're shit like that. It's like, man, I don't want to, for me personally, where I'm at in my life right now, I don't want to see any of that. You know what? I told me one time. I don't want to know some of that stuff, but I might need that at some point. Who knows? A guy tells me, he says, you know why you have eyes?

And I go, well, to perceive the world and to see and to navigate. He goes, no, you have eyes as filters so that you can't see. If you saw every pore on my face, you would go insane. Oh, yeah. And so there's this limiting factor of our brains, I think, that keeps us safe to your point. You can't see the germs and so on. Of course. So I think that goes to what Tate said to you, like if it calls to you, like it's a calling thing.

Like if you're, like, it's cool to know it's out there. Like if you need to talk therapy, if you're going through depression, if you're going through these things, and if it calls to you in a certain way, then absolutely you should consider it. And I don't think you should feel like you're on this door to go do it because. I would never suggest it. Otherwise, I just, that's for me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my brother had a lot of chronic pain, so that's why he sought it out. Yeah. Yeah. And he was just trying to figure out. Chris?

Yeah. How did it? It helped him at certain points. but you know like you said sometimes you need to like do it again you know and sometimes you there's a lot of work that needs to happen my brother I think he feels like he probably feels like he should go do it again I think it would be like his fourth time but I think that the other times where he's done it I think maybe he didn't get the combination of things correct it gave him a nice boost and gave him a shot in the right direction but hasn't really led to him being able to shake his chronic pain but he's

been out of chronic pain before from doing it, but only for like short periods of time. Right. And we're talking about head trauma too, but what a lot of it is to like we said, is PTSD. And like Jody went and and she's had had trauma from fighting too, but she was a first responder forever and has a lot of experiences with that. And it completely changed her life. And she's a different better person after she went. I'm a different better person. Better person is a hard thing to say but um i don't know the word i'm looking for but just uh elevated person how's that yeah um head trauma and um uh PTSD and head trauma are very similar yeah that's interesting i think so yeah well get treated similarly i think i think head trauma magnifies um whatever's going on with

you like your brain's just not reacting i think it's stickiness like PTSD is a stickiness right it's almost like a resentment. It's like there's a thing that happened in my history that I react to right now when I hear a noise or when I hear or when I see a certain thing or something and it comes back as viscerally as if it's happening right now and my anxiety takes over my body shuts down. There's something like that and I think that that's a it's an offshoot of like I didn't know what anxiety was until I had really this really post-cocussive syndrome that happened to me. Like I hadn't I thought anxiety was like something that people made up to work. weak people. I had no idea that it was a real idea. I was just ignorant. I had no idea it was a real

thing. I'm just making this up now, but I think we formed these, what you're talking about, like we just formed these ruts in our life from PTSD where we find these safe place where I'm in this rut, where I'm safe in this, this rut in this direction. And I don't really grow from that and I'm stuck in that. And for me, it's definitely was a way to get out of that and see the world is a bigger place and seeing the connectiveness with the universe and all that. Why do you think in the movie, the Ways to War movie, you guys saw that, right? The documentary on the Ibo Gain stuff, right? Why do you think in that movie that those guys, when they did the Ibo Gain treatment,

they were dealing more with their childhood than they were with, like, it seemed like they weren't dealing with what happened to them at war at all. The thing is, you don't know, you don't know what it is that makes you, you. That's the thing is you're a stranger to your damn self. You know what I mean? And that becomes a thing. I think guys go into this thing. and I think that the plant, the universe, the gods, whatever,

show you maybe this is another thing that brought you here. You know, I've been locked up, like all kinds of things that happened in my life. And I never think of those things. I just think that's life. And you're going through life and then you do the next thing and you do the next thing. And people are like, how'd you get through that?

And you're like, no, fuck, I don't know. I was dealing with the next thing. You know, and I was always forward. And you don't know that that's sticky, that affects your relationships or whatever, 10, 20, 30 years later until you're 10, 20, 30. People that are like, yeah, I'm working with my trauma that happened last summer. It's like, bitch, that's not even real.

You don't know what that is. Like, you don't have any idea of, and then to work on it is what? Is to let go. It is to be in a position where that's not informing me of who I am right now. All that shit might be real, but I think that the thing is, is like certain times in life, your cart gets knocked off the road and you're in the ditch. And it's not important to understand why. What's important is that you get back on the ditch and you start going so you're confident in your daily life.

And then in the rearview mirror, all your traumas and all the shit might come into place and you can go, oh, now I can understand it. You know, we live life forward, but understand it backwards, they say, right? I can only understand the rear view mirror, but I have to be in the windshield. The windshield's bigger than the rear view mirror for a reason, right? Yeah. Like all that. You talk about kids, I think that's one reason why there's a lot of brotherhood between speck, seals, spec operators and fighters and all that. Because I think a lot of us come from a similar place where you develop survival mechanisms when you're,

kid because a lot of them come from tough past like poor past whatever and you learn how to survive as a kid and that carries with you for a life and then we express that like I'm going to prove the world that I'm going to be somebody like I'm going to be a fighter then that's how I can prove to the world and all that I'm going to be a Navy seal that's how I can prove myself to the world and all that and I think a lot of that that that's why the similarity there's a lot of that comes from when we're a kid that survival mechanisms that we get anyways you guys get you guys get chance to see the dark wizard. Uh-uh.

So the dark wizard is about a guy that started climbing a little bit before Alex Honnell. Yeah. And then they had, they had this, this, this cool rivalry. I won't give anything away in it, but like, it was, it was really, really great documentary. It's on HBO. Is he alive? You should, uh. Watch the doc.

Yeah, you should watch, yeah, watch the documentary. That shit's terrifying. Is this the one where Al also talking about how he was a hero to him? Yeah. Yeah. And how he. Yeah. Yeah, these guys, they do some crazy stuff.

They do some, like, you know, like jumping off the cliff and shit like that with the parachute and all that. How come only white guys are the three-should? What is that? Right? I don't know. Yeah. Well, this guy, you know, so what this guy said, you guys would be able to relate to this. They show him walking, you know, this tightrope, and he's not hooked to anything.

And he's, you know, a few hundred feet in the air. and he said that in the moment when he's doing that that's the only time that he felt like normal it's the only time where he felt like he didn't have anxiety he didn't have this he didn't have that he wasn't worried about anything you know that that's amazing so i wonder if you guys have maybe experienced that's why i fight similar thing with fighting public speaking uh acting when i was doing a stick fight the first time i ever did like one in front of people i'd fought a bunch of times with guys training i forgot that you did that that's shit's crazy yeah but That was an experience where you're either present right now or you're asleep, right?

You're either knocked unconscious or you're here in the moment. And that thing about being ultra present in the moment, that's what that guy's feeling on that tightrope. If I think about anything else with the consequences, so I have to be here. And so that being right here back to that same thing, a presence. Yeah, he had to do it almost every day. He had to do something like that. And that's the thing I think with addictions too. I mean, when you talk about that kind of stuff, it's like people are either living

in fear of anxiety of the future. They're living in a regret of the past. And the only time they can feel right here and present is when they're goes, nothing else matters right now. I got a glass of vodka or whatever. And it brings you into presence. And when you're away from that, it's a painful, debilitating experience. And so people go back to drink again and all that.

And so that whole idea of like, how can I find presence? Look at that. Ultimate importance for a creative in this life. I think normally he's like hooked to it. but sometimes he does it without anything. So crazy. And he just falls on it. He's so confident in his grab.

He's like, I'll just grab it if I fall. That shit's got hurt. He's just working it out right there. He's probably not scared like almost just fellow or whatever. He's just working it out in the moment. That's great, man. It's underfoot.

Yeah, I dig those mountain climbers a lot. Thank you guys so much for being on the show. And where can people find you guys and where can they find your podcast and all that good stuff? You can find us on all of our socials, Key Jarding 205. Yeah, just Tate Fletcher. Broken Year podcast is our podcast. What's it called?

Broken Ear. Broken Year. Yeah. And Kill Me Again, you can find it on Amazon and Tubey. Watch that for free. Please watch that. It's a fantastic. You can't guess the ending.

It's amazing. It's not really great. It's out right now on Amazon and Tube. 90% and Rotten Tomatoes. It's, it's rowdy. It's slasher. It's funny at the same. time and it's dramatic at the same time.

It's a really unique experience, man. And please, please check it out, support all of us and send me a message when you do because I love talking. Yeah, Kill Me Again is the one that Keith wrote and directed. And then Over Your Dead Body is the one that is Juliette Lewis and Timothy Oliphant and all that

that's coming out this week. May 26, yeah. Wrote, directed and he's in the movie too. Dude, his character is my favorite character. When he's like, oh, I want to play the line cook, I was like, the character he plays is bad. It's dope. It's dope.

Yeah. Strength is never a week. This week. This never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.