Mark Bell's Power Project - Why We CHOSE to Believe Liver King || MBPP Ep. 847

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

In this Podcast Episode, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about when Mark Bell asked Liver King if he was on steroids, he looked him in his eyes and said, "no". They took his word at face value which we now know was a complete lie. New Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the new Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw Special perks for our listeners below! ➢https://hostagetape.com/powerproject Free shipping and free bedside tin! ➢https://www.naboso.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 15% off! ➢https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!! ➢Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained: https://youtu.be/qPG9JXjlhpM ➢https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/powerproject Code: POWERVIVO20 for 20% off Vivo Barefoot shoes! ➢https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off site wide including Within You supplements! ➢https://mindbullet.com/ Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://eatlegendary.com Use Code POWERPROJECT for 20% off! ➢https://bubsnaturals.com Use code POWERPROJECT for 20% of your next order! ➢https://vuoriclothing.com/powerproject to automatically save 20% off your first order at Vuori! ➢https://www.eightsleep.com/powerproject to automatically save $150 off the Pod Pro at 8 Sleep! ➢https://marekhealth.com Use code POWERPROJECT10 for 10% off ALL LABS at Marek Health! Also check out the Power Project Panel: https://marekhealth.com/powerproject Use code POWERPROJECT for $101 off! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150 Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject  ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok  FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ https://www.breakthebar.com/learn-more ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en  Follow Andrew Zaragoza on all platforms ➢ https://direct.me/iamandrewz #LiverKing  #PowerProject #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

Hey guys, I want to talk to you about Merrick Health, owned by Derek from More Plates, More Dates. Now, some of you guys are on a fat loss journey, some of you guys are trying to gain muscle, and some of you guys are just trying to optimize yourself and your hormones. That's why Merrick Health is so great, because you can get your blood work done. A lot of us don't know what's going on under the hood as far as our cholesterol, our testosterone, our hormones are concerned, and you need to get that checked multiple times a year. That's why we've partnered with Merrick and we have something called the Power Project Panel, which has 28 different labs.

And if you do get the Power Project Panel, they'll actually be able to partner you up with a patient care coordinator that will go through your labs with you and advise you on what you should do. So Andrew, how can they get it? Yeah, you guys got to head over to merrickhealth.com slash powerproject.

That's M-A-R-E-k health dot com slash power project uh you guys will see the power project panel and when you guys check out use promo code power project to save 101 off the entire panel links to them down in the description as well as the podcast show notes there's uh videos dinging up all over the place everyone's got something to say about it everyone yeah we're rolling now guys damn i just pulled up a picture on Kenny's Instagram. Not a picture, a video. He's doing shoulder presses. This boy thick.

That boy thick. What kind of weights is he using? Well, he's using lightweight, but look at him. He looks insane. Oh, my goodness. Andrew's probably about to pull it up. Was that now? Ah.

That was five minutes ago. Kenny, Kenny, Kenny. Did he fix his IG handle yet? I don't know, dude. He had issues with it. Liver King, Liver King, Liver King. You know, no, actually, I forgot. Why am I calling him Liver King?

I'm calling him Brian. I need to refer to that motherfucker as Brian. Liver King is buried. Yeah, his name's Brian. As we saw, Saladino's the new Liver King. From the Rogan episode. Yeah. name's Brian. As we saw, Saladino's the new liver king. From the Rogan episode. Yeah. There's Kenny.

Yeah, Kenny's looking yoked. So, Mark, in that video, in the video that Derek made, you were shown, right? Because you went to the ranch. You rode ATVs. We were all in that video. We were, but I mean, Mark is the guy who interviewed him. You broke bread with him. I definitely want to share that I support the same morals and the same values as everyone I've ever had on the show.

So anyone that's ever lied or conducted themselves in a bad way, anyone that's cheated on their girlfriend or wives are in huge favor of that. People have lied and been deceiving. And so anyone that you see pictures of me with on social media or anytime you see me collaborate with anybody via YouTube, Instagram, just know that I fully support all the actions of that person. YouTube, Instagram, just know that I fully support all the actions of that person and I can put my stamp of approval on all of them saying that I know all the stuff that they do behind closed doors.

They're an exact reflection of yourself, aren't they? Oh, 100%. Absolutely. Including my fake Natty Lyon ass. Yeah, you've been lying. I've been lying since I was six, man. That's why we got you on the show. I'm fucking with you. Since you were lying since I was six, man. That's why we got you on the show. I'm fucking with you.

Since you were six? I thought you said eight. See how the story changes so much? It just flack for you since I was seven. We were right in between. He was a tweener. He was a tweener. Makes sense.

Yeah, so anyway, some shit blew up with the liver king. We saw some of that go on, and every fitness person i guess is commenting on it and um yeah it's just interesting i think what you can't forget you know people tend to talk about a lot of different things when stuff like this goes on but you can't forget that somebody was lying the liver king was lying brian johnson was lying and he was being deceitful like intentionally deceitful um and he just perpetuated the lie and he carried the lie around with him and he had to continue to lie and he probably just thought he would never get caught and so if you never get caught if he never got caught we wouldn't be talking about it this way he would still be

going on doing his normal thing was it a lie if he never got caught yeah we wouldn't be talking about it this way. He would still be going on doing his normal thing. Was it a lie if he never got caught? Yeah, I don't know. Let me ask you this, Mark, because you said something before, because when you actually,

uh, you, you did the podcast with him where you asked him straight up, are you? And he said, no. Right. So you took him at his word as what that's one does.

You know, you don't just say, Oh, well, how about this? He's just going to say he's not. So what are you going to continue to do? Right. But you did mention something in a later podcast. You know, you don't just say, well, how about this? He's just going to say he's not. So what are you going to continue to do, right? But you did mention something in a later podcast.

You're like, I have my, you mentioned, you have your own opinions on it. You're going to keep that to yourself. So there are certain things like for myself, I take people at their word. If someone tells me that they are natural, I've seen some people do some wild shit without the use of PEDs. I will take them at that word. I took lip Brian at his word too. And I'm one of those people who was like, eh, some people can do that. Maybe it's him. So I'm one of those gullible few or gullible folks that actually thought there's a chance he could be natural. Right. But you've seen a lot of different physiques and you have like, there are certain people that there are certain things about a physique where it's like that suspect.

What are those things? Because to be perfectly honest, like I don't know what those things are necessarily. I know like huge size. Yeah. Right. But what else is like the real suspect stuff? I think the skin like color can be a big thing black yes like black guys are black means that you're not taking anything exactly means that you're definitely clean the uh no the

pigment of your skin uh you know and i don't know if that has a lot to do with uh maybe more production of red blood cells or exactly what's going on. But you see a little bit of a reddish tint sometimes to somebody. And that also could be Brian's skin tone because some people are – they have kind of sensitive skin to the sun and they kind of get reddish from the sun rather than like tan. So we see that sometimes but uh there's also kind of almost like hard to put into words but for lack of a better term like kind of blotchy skin where there's like it's like white but there's like little speckles of red in there somewhere and that's like you can somehow see that from afar without without really even getting up close then you also see kind of the volume yeah so he's a guy that's that's very tan he's out in the sun a lot.

But you kind of see that redness through the chest, and who knows if any of these photos are altered or whatever in whatever way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and shaded and colored so that the abs pop more and things like that. I'm sure any picture you find online is going to be that way. But that reddish tone like that, it's not, that's a little, it starts to get a little abnormal. And then the kind of the density of somebody. So when somebody is wide, that's one thing. When somebody is wide shoulder to shoulder,

that is a lot of times a result of hard work in genetics, being wide this way. But when you start getting wide from like front to back, especially through maybe, and this is all just completely made up by me, this is not any scientific thing, but anything between like the belly button and like the chest kind of plate, like almost up to the shoulders, when you see that kind of thickness on somebody, it's a little bit more rare that you see that from a natural guy. That's actually where natural guys can usually kick a lot of people's ass because they can be like real tight through there and slim through that area. And so when you start to kind of see that thickness

through the abdominals, you know, there definitely could be some, somebody could think, oh, maybe there's insulin or maybe there's growth hormone going on or maybe it's just years of testosterone use. For me, it's always the GH belly look to it. Yeah, okay. You know, for people to kind of imagine, it's like those lab rats, right? They get like that big old lab rat belly. And with him, it's like the extra chunk of meat on the sides.

That kind of like, I don know that's that's for me personally has that so so that's i have a question for you and no my it looks a lot different than this i know he looks different than that but i know many people who have quite thick obliques okay so i'm wondering like it's that's obliques i can get the gh belly but strong obliques i was just saying like there's just more mass there like it just seems like there's extra meat where normally it doesn't in natural guys. We're not really going to see it that often. I think just put more simply, like there would just be 10 to 15 pounds less indirectly, almost in that area from like his shoulders down to like his hip bone, basically, which is a lot of weight.

Yeah. Yeah. Question for you guys. He's like 185, right? 5'6", 185. I could be wrong, but that's what i've heard that's from what i was from what i've heard he's like five six 185 190 which is thick for five six individual but again we now know he was on a ton of shit to get there but we do also know some naturals who they might not have the 3d look but they've built the same or more

amounts of muscle than him that's why i find it interesting how everybody and yeah i think there's an aspect to it where he got so big not physically but so big on social media so fast um and he did have this sort of look that everyone's making these videos of course we all knew delivery king was taking drugs but it's somewhat of a weird thing where so many people are like yeah of course because there are people that can do it i'm not saying it's okay that he lied about it that's not what i'm saying but what what's going on here, I think what's going to happen is that since he's been outed and it is overall a net good that he's been outed, there's going to be a lot of people that might actually not be like Liver King or not be on

drugs that are going to be compared to him. Like, hey, look at Liver King. So then how's this person natural? How's this person natural? I don't know know i just think that could be somewhat of an effect rich froning elite level athlete everybody says he's on drugs you know but we're pulling up a picture of rich froning for those who are listening right now it depends on like what pictures you see of somebody too you know matt frazier and a lot of these crossfit people come to mind. They kind of are in that similar category where they're the same height, very similar weight. And in some pictures, they look like superheroes. Sometimes they look completely shredded. I think in the liver king's case, the darker, you know, the kind of darker skin, the reddish skin tone that you may have seen in some photos.

And then also the vascularity is a big part of it too. You know, most people that are natural, they don't really walk around with a really pronounced bicep vein. Might be a bicep vein there, you know, here and there, but it's not like just like you see how his is like, you know, you said it before about me that my veins look angry. They kind of look angry. They're like out.

And even when it's cold, like even when it's colder temperature, I mean he's out in just like whatever temperature with no shirt on. Normally, even if you're pretty jacked and sometimes even if you're on some shit, if it's kind of cold out, like your veins are like they're kind of hiding. So again, I don't know if that's blood pressure. I don't know what the mechanism is that's behind that. It also does have a little bit to do with your age. He's in his forties. And so that amount of training, you get that kind of muscle maturity. But I remember when we were at his ranch kind of seeing like, not just a vein, like in the bicep, not just a vein like in the bicep not just a vein here but kind of side veins and some veins like on the inside of the bicep where you're like it's not even doing

anything right now so not that that's unobtainable natural and none of it's unattainable natural the way he looks but i gotta say i think one of the most telltale things that I have ever seen of him, and you can see it in this picture, was the way that he struggles with movement. Because I've seen some stuff that he's done movement-wise, and I was like, I was just thinking, because I saw some stuff that he's done, and I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool. I'm like, who is this guy? This is pretty interesting. Oh, he's lifting these weights. He's doing these things. Oh, he's squatting 500 pounds. He weighs like 200 uh he's benching pretty good weight oh my god he's

doing this with a kettlebell oh wow look at he's doing these uh walks with heavy kettlebells in his hands and he's got the barbarian walk that he's doing with the ankle weights and stuff i'm like these are all pretty good feats but then i saw his movement a couple times and i was like he shouldn't show that like that doesn't look not that you shouldn't show something that you're not proficient at, but I was like, that's not, that's not representing him well. Like he doesn't move great. And when I saw that, that's kind of my first inkling of, I was like, I think because the body's going to respond differently, right?

If you all of a sudden out of nowhere slap 10, 15 pounds on it, which is going to happen when somebody takes performance enhancing drugs. It's going to happen at some point, whether it happened five years ago or whether it happened just a couple of weeks ago. It's funky and very clunky for your body. And even as somebody that's natural, natural people will tell you like, holy shit, man, if I lose like eight to 10 pounds and I go to bench press, I feel like I'm going to die. Or if I lose eight to 10 pounds and I do pull-ups, it's way different. I can do pull-ups all day. So body weight mass has a huge, profound impact on your body.

Yeah, no, he's super lean there. Real quick text for my mom. Your auntie's about to go kill a goat. Do you want some so I can tell her? Or do you want me to get your guy's number? Yeah, I need some goat. This is African shit. Now, you know, what you're saying is right because like he is probably around walking around 6% to 7% all the time.

You can be that stage lean sometimes, but like I can't stick in that body fat percentage. Natural guys can't stay there for a long time. You feel like shit, you're tanked. You got to get in and out of that type of body fat percentage. Natural guys can't stay there for a long time. You feel like shit, you're tanked. You got to get in and out of that type of body fat percentage. And he was perpetually there, right? We see some ectomorph type people do that, but they're usually, again, they're usually skinnier folks. Can you pull up Paul Sklar, Andrew?

Do you remember this Paul Sklar guy? Right. The reason why I'm bringing up Paul Sklar, and I think this is an interesting part to this whole – Bill Maeda comes to mind too, just a thinner, taller guy. Or not really tall, but like kind of almost looks tall because of his physique. And he is single-digit body fat. Yeah.

You know what I mean? But he's held that for a long time, so he's maintained that. So Paul Sklar is interesting because he came up on the Rogan episode with Derek, right? Greg Doucette has made a video about Paul Sklar calling him out, saying that he's not natural there's no way you can do that at that age but he did something with derrick where he got some tests done and blood work done to show that he is natural so so right here this is where the nuance is guys because again we're not we do not how different those two pictures look sorry to interrupt oh go ahead go ahead yeah just you know i think depending on like the type of photo that you see from a particular individual um it could be really drastic on how pump how different somebody looks and that's

another thing too what you'll notice is that somebody that uses performance enhancing drugs will look kind of the same like they'll get a pump and they might look kind of crazy, but the natural guys really change a lot. Like when you're in the gym just earlier getting a pump, I mean, you always look great. You always have tons of muscle on you, but then the veins pop out and like kind of everything's all coming together. And it's just, it's just different.

It's hard to describe to people, but I think a natural person going from no pump to a pump is different than a person that's on shit that goes from just kind of sitting there statically, not really doing much to then getting a pump. And, you know, that's, but this is why I'm, I do like the way you handle the situation with Brian. When you did that podcast with him, you asked him, he gave you his answer, and you're like, okay, because Paul Sklar, Greg made a video about him. Greg called him out and said he was on drugs. His whole audience started believing that this man was on drugs.

Now, I think he did some stuff with Derek. Finds out he's actually a natural guy. He was talked about on Rogan. Rogan looks the picture of Paul Sklar up. He's like, that's a good showing of what a natural person can do. But my mind thinks that the only reason Rogan said that is because it's been confirmed that Paul is natural. Because I would go as far as to say if he saw that picture and he didn't know

anything about Paul, he'd probably say that guy's on juice because he had no prior information. You know what I mean? People have this knee-jerk reaction when they see certain people online, and I totally get it. But it is an unsafe thing, like what Greg did with this guy, to literally tell your whole audience this isn't possible when actually, for some people, that is. I'm not saying that the liver king thing is wrong, but I'm saying that, like, that's why I appreciate that you didn't just say, oh, no, you're not natural or you're on drugs. that's why I appreciate that you didn't just say, oh no, you're not natural or you're on drugs. Even though now we know he was, and I was one of those stupid fools who took him out,

you know, I was like, okay, maybe he is. But what else are we supposed to do? You know, like some people it's fucking obvious. And for many people, they believe that it was obvious with liver king. But it's, there's too too much nuance there's too much genetic variability to just look at something and be like you're too big to be natural and then just judge them on that does it help thing to call you know just to completely just judge a book by its cover you know i always say that's my unfair advantage in life i grew up with great parents

they told me not to do that don't judge people by their height or their color or this or that. And don't, don't just go lumping people in to some idea that you have of them and for them without getting a better understanding of them and without communicating with them. Like, what do I, I mean, is that, that's not, I'm not on a witch hunt to like hunt anybody down. I feel comfortable about myself enough to not do anything like that. I don't care. I don't, it's his business. Right. So he said what he said. I just left it at that. The same way I interview anybody else.

Like, I don't know if someone's childhood story that they share here on the show is true. You know, I don't know if they were fat and now they're in shape and I don't know if someone's childhood story that they share here on the show is true. I don't know if they were fat and now they're in shape. And I don't really know. I mean, sometimes we have before and after pictures, and that's nice to know some of that. But we don't really know. Just like anybody else that has a podcast, you don't really know all the information that's being shared, whether it's all true. But when you run into a situation like this, what happens is you start to wonder, is everything the liver King ever said a lie? The stuff about his kids, that's why they started to diet. Is his wife natural? I mean, you start to get into a lot of stuff. You're like, man, I, well,

well, hold on a second. Well, you know, there, I don't want to go and judge all these other things, but it does make some red flags pop up. I don't know if there were fans that were following along that were really believing in particular things. I wonder how much those fans will believe in anything else that he says. in anything else that he says. I think that we all can agree that, you know, eating meat seems like a healthy thing for most people to do and for people to do some of the other stuff he says, where you get in some sunlight and he's got other recommendations that we've heard talked about at length on other podcasts and on this podcast. But now it's like, I don't know if i want to try to you know i or anybody else you want to take the time to try to sift through after you got burned by somebody you know or you just say like i don't you know i'm just really not going to listen to this person at all anymore yeah what i was going to ask you guys is like does it help like when you have these

um a lot of people saying that liver king is obviously fake Natty. Does it help anything for you to believe or disagree with that? Meaning like, Oh, I want to get in better shape. Let me figure out what he's doing. Oh, but they're saying that he's on steroids. Okay.

I'm just going to go ahead and believe that. Like, does it help or hurt? Like what I'm saying is like, does it help anything if you believe the hype that he is on steroids? Does it help if you believe Brian's on steroids? I mean, he is. So, okay, can you, I'm trying to understand.

Yeah, I know. I'm learning it weird. I'm on a lot of drugs myself right now. My boy, Andrew, our homie has a cold. Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't take medicine. I took everything I have. Andrew, maybe similar to people being motivated

by bodybuilders from when they were young and had no idea that they were taking stuff. Exactly. That kind of thing, yeah. Yes, yes. Because we've had people come on the show and they're like, I was motivated by this guy. I never even thought about it.

Arnold and so on. Everybody looked at Arnold and that helped a lot of people. Pro wrestlers. Man, I think, okay, so this is one thing though. The thing about Brian is that he lied helped a lot of people pro wrestlers man i think okay so the what this is one thing though the thing about brian is that he lied to the face of so many people arnold i you know i don't know there's probably interviews of arnold in the past where like they were asked whatever and he's like

i don't know if he dodged the question but most of these bodybuilders just don't even go into that we have to keep in mind that it there was a point where it was a scheduled three drug or whatever schedule is illegal basically now you have like you can at least hide behind the doctor and hide behind trt so there was a lot of years where people lied about it all the time i mean hulk hogan lied about it lied about all the time and they they would try to bring stuff up like that on on interviews interviews and stuff. But there was, there wasn't that much knowledge back then. They didn't know that when somebody is that big, like Hulk Hogan was,

he was huge. Again, that doesn't mean there's not outliers out there. It doesn't mean there's people that can't figure that out without performance enhancement. But there's some people that the only way that they would ever get there is through some performance enhancement. So yeah,

it's just, uh, I agree with what you're saying. It's hard just to flat out tell or be able to just say definitively, like, oh, that guy's not, like, it's not, it's almost not fair in a way. You want to give the person an opportunity to talk, an opportunity to speak. If he went about it a bunch of different ways if he said I would rather not ever talk about it and then he got out it I would be like that's kind of fucked up he just wanted to keep it private yeah but in this case I think like he deserves to get grilled

right I mean he don't you guys think that he deserves a little bit of there's got to be some sort of recourse he deserves all of it right now, honestly. And this is the thing, because again, like he was asked point blank, straight up, are you? By you and by every single podcast he got on. The thing is, like aspects of his messages were really good. And I would, you know, it was cool that on the Rogan episode, you know, Rogan and Derek kind of shifted and shifted people towards, you want to know more about this ancestral living and carnivore lifestyle, go to Paul Saladino, pay attention to what he's talking about, ignore Brian and what he's doing.

Right. Because you don't want people to sit like you say, okay, this guy's on drugs, but all of that stuff, this whole message was bullshit because there are aspects of his message. That was really, really good.

But overall with kind of with the massive amount of lying he's done and yeah everybody lies we we've talked about this before but in this sense it's not cool and it's also a different time you know what i mean hulk hogan whose tv larger than life that's all you could see you're not not seeing hulk hogan all the time i'm not saying it was okay that he, you know, I don't have any on steroids, but that wasn't a thing at the time. Nowadays, like you need to be open and you need to be honest about that stuff.

Ideally, that's the case. And, and yeah, it's not, it's not cool. He, he does it as Brian deserves this shit.

Yeah. And he even like kind of made fun of like the whole thing too. He was, he had said, you know, on, this is on the, the video that Derek and Zach shit. Yeah. And he even like kind of made fun of like the whole thing too. He was, he had said, you know, on, this is on the, the video that Derek and Zach made where he's on other podcasts being like,

if I was on steroids, would I have these skinny legs and shit like that? Where it's like, oh man, not only did you, you lied, but you're making fun of it. And then saying like,

oh, I might try, I might do it one day because the 10th tenet is like poison. So he might. Have some fun. Have some fun. So he's like, then we'll see what I can really look like if I'm on steroids. Because if I look like this naturally, it's like, wow.

Like he really, really, really went in on it. Yeah. One thing he did say is that he convinced himself. And so that apology that he put up, which I think was still kind of in like WWE promo mode. And I have been in communication with him. He was talking about coming on the podcast, but I don't know if he will or not. I don't know if he wants to really like face that. You know, I don't, I don't know if he's in a good enough spot to do that or what his

thoughts are. But I do know he's in a good enough spot to do that or what his thoughts are um but i i do know he's like trying to work on it he's trying to like apologize but i don't i don't think he'll be able to like really apologize his way out of this um i don't know like what i would do in that situation um it seems really murky i know i know for the most part i don't really like any of this i don't really love the topic i don't really love seeing someone get outed I don't really like any of this. I don't really love the topic. I don't really love seeing someone get outed. I don't really love seeing people make videos on people outing them either. However, it's like this guy was lying to people and he was potentially taking a lot of people for a ride.

So, you know, did he need to be stopped? I could totally see people's point in why they would want to stop that. And I could totally see a reason. That sounds valid enough. Like he's, I mean, I guess in a way you're, you know, if he's profiting off of it, I guess in a way it's like that's just unfair to the consumer. The thing about Brian, though, is he's a high performer, man. I listened to his episode with Graham Stephan, the real estate guy. He went on his podcast and he was talking to them about business and stuff.

Obviously, before all of this shit, he was doing some really cool shit. He's built businesses. He was not in the spotlight, but he's a smart dude you know what i mean and i think that there is actually a lot to learn from him outside of this this whole thing it's not right what he did but there's a lot of things that people that are people can learn from him even even if you dislike him and i don't i'm not i'm not a I don't like him, but there's things to learn from the dude. Um, and one thing that he did though, do though to Andrew, uh, and you, you kind of touched on this is not only did he go on and he, like he had,

he said, Oh, if I was natural, what I have these small legs, but he also, um, I think he referred to things when it does come to aspects of drug use as subprimal, you know what I mean? Like he did that us versus them type of thing to build his thing. Like, Oh no, that's subprimal or these subprimals think I'm on drugs. These subprimals this, and now it's come back to bite him in the ass because it's like, you know, here, when we talk about this shit, we don't do an us versus them thing. We're trying to learn from a lot of different people. We're trying to, we're trying to take away from that type of stuff.

But he really dove into that which was is a great marketing tool right but you know it's it's all those subprimals are coming back to kick his ass he he kind of caused this on himself he brought this on to himself yeah i have two like on the financial side of things two questions um because he hadn't said that he was already very successful before liver king came to be a thing and when liver king b did become a thing his his businesses were already i think he said like 15 xing every year on the year some shit like that um will we ever know whether or not liver king did actually boost up sales for him yeah we're not going to know much of anything we don't even know if he has a great business

yeah we don't know anything anymore right i mean that, that's kind of the way I look at it. Like I was there. I saw everything. But I don't know if it's generational wealth. I don't know where it came from. I don't know if it's. Most of the time, my experience, my experience has been I've been around people. They talk about what they do and they hype it up.

And then I talked to somebody else and they're like, oh yeah, he's part owners with so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so. And I'm like, oh, they're not the guy. Yeah. Yeah. And actually so-and-so started it. And I'm like, oh, that's a lot different than what I heard. Again, still not knowing the truth, but you start to hear these things a lot in our industry. And then you're like, okay, well, I'm sure the company does well. If the company makes $100 million, that's cool. But you have to always remember that doesn't mean much of anything. that doesn't mean much of anything. It's your company can be worth a hundred million dollars and it might not mean much of anything. You still might be in debt. There's like, there's all kinds of things that,

that happen. Uh, I remember we've had people come here to the show and I was like, this is going to be great. We get to learn from these individuals. It seems like their business is just fucking killing it. And Andy and I would sit down with them behind closed doors and they would be like, what do you got? Because we're really hurting.

And we're like, oh, shit. We were hoping to like learn shit from you. And they're like, you guys seem like you're doing really well. And we're like, well, actually, yeah, we are doing pretty good. Like, what do you want to know? Share information back and forth. And Andy and I would look at each other like, oh, my God. Because people get themselves, you get themselves in over their heads sometimes

and things like that. But with Liver King, in his defense, as I talked to him again, having no idea what anything he says is true or not, it did seem like he had a lot of knowledge when it came to business. And he mentioned kind of how he built some of these businesses up, how much money they make. I don't really know. Yeah.

So then now I'm curious if like, I mean, like you said, like there's really nothing he can do to apologize his way out of it. Well, I think his fans will stay his fans though. Because if you look at the comments on this stuff,

there are some people who are still overwhelming support. And, and the question you asked before, he definitely made a fuck ton of money off of the liver king. We have a hundred, 1.7 million followers on instagram and more than two or three million followers on tiktok and you're at he's a marketing genius because if you look at his stories like not even recently but if you look at his

stories the past few months everything is like fucking when he has his food it's like the whole feast he's hawking his shit oh yeah all the protein powder yeah he's he's a genius he made he's made a lot of fucking money off of the liver king. You know what I mean? If he came out and said, I created the liver king to make a shit ton of money, would people accept that as an apology? Well, it sounds like he did, right?

Right. But if he verbally said that though, not verbally saying, I fucked up. If he just came out and said, I fucked up because i wanted to make as much money as possible in a short amount of time i had this plan to get a million followers by this date and i knew i had to get on a bunch of shit to look impressive to turn heads so that way i can make more profit in the shortest amount of time i i think i think

there are words that he could probably use and there are probably things he could probably choose to say to help a lot. And I think he just needs to talk about how weak he was and how vulnerable he was and how he did want to become richer and more famous. He didn't want to be – he must have not wanted to be anonymous anymore. And if I was in his shoes and I was anonymous and now this happened, I I would just bury this thing and I would fucking go back and just say, Hey man, it was a good run. Hopefully some of you guys can find in your heart to accept my apology for

those that you can't. I understand. And guess what? Peace. I'm out of here. Yeah. And I might still post some stuff up, but it's going to be stuff that I think is fun.

I'm not going to be yelling and screaming at you eating liver. guys but i i think most people are i'm not saying i think the people that really aren't like accepting his apology are the people who pay attention to the fitness industry the people who watch those videos and even though there's a lot of people that follow him i don't think that's most of the people that follows him yeah because my like if you look at the comments on his post if you look at the comments on his apology there's a lot of people that follow him i don't think that's most of the people that follows him yeah because my like if you look at the comments on his post if you look at the comments on his apology there's a lot of hate there's a lot of love and he doesn't necessarily need other people to continue to build an audience at this point because it's so big i think he's a he's a form of entertainment right for a lot of people yeah um that's what i was attracted to i was like this

is fun this is cool like it's halfway corny but it's kind of fun zach called him the lovable heel yeah yeah yeah and also it's uh yeah it's like a little bit wrestling style right wwe style so much of what we see about nutrition we've had people come on the show and talk about seed oils and we've had people come on the show uh talking about um i don't know just these different things that are fucking boring topics. And even we almost fell asleep a couple times. And so to have the liver king take charge and take command and come through, I mean, you've got to kind of look at it authentically. Not me. You've got to do that.

Come to mind right now. LDL, HDL, LMNOP,op whatever the fuck i don't remember i fell asleep yeah yeah what page are we on yeah fuck no i mean the liver king thing it it definitely you know it was something that was working working great i don't know you know what what will come of it probably in a couple weeks probably in a couple, people really won't care as much. It's not like they're, our society isn't strong enough to like really do stuff like that too. And canceling people, I think is just kind of garbage anyway. So hopefully, yeah, hopefully people can still get value and find what he does fun. That's the way I look at most stuff.

I don't, so I never even, I don't care that he lied to me. I literally don't care. Why? People just lie to me all the time. I lie to myself all the time. I feel like lying is part of being human. What do they say? You lie

every 10 minutes or something? They say a child can't go more than 5 minutes. Maybe you can try to look it up. A child can't go more than 5 minutes without lying and an adult can't go more than 10 minutes or something like they said what they say a child can't go more than five minutes maybe you can try to look it up child can't go more than five minutes without lying and an adult can't go more than like 10 minutes okay yeah there's more than 10 minutes you sure about that i swear i mean i don't know i read a lot about that there we go the first thing that comes up and i'm not even going to click on the link yet just because, you know, whatever. 60% of people can't go 10 minutes without lying. This is the first thing.

And then how often do people, well, see, this is very contradictory because the next link says that people on average go about once or twice per day. They lie about once or twice per day. So that goes against. There's a lot of different lies, right. There's a lot of different, there's a lot of different lies, right? There's a lot of different lies. And the way that he lied sucks. And it's on such a large level.

If he was lying amongst his friends and it was like 10, 15 people, those 10, 15 people, like people lie all the time. Yeah, man, I swear to God,

I stopped drinking. Like, I don't know what's happened. I can't lose weight. Man, are you sure? Are you being really truthful about your diet? You really aren't eating donuts anymore and you're still gaining weight?

I do sleep two hours a night. You're actually in a caloric deficit. I mean, we lie all the time. Sometimes it's small, you know, for you to lie a little bit about your weight loss or lie about this here and there. It's like, you know, it's not a big deal. But he didn't just lie to like a coach but he didn't just lie to like a coach he didn't just lie to like a friend you know he he lied on a much on a much larger scale where he

was and so i think that that this uh situation might become like a verb you know people might say oh he liver kinged it you know that might be like a thing and we've had um things in our history where we've seen you know there's like um biblical uh stories that have been written about people that lied or try to deceive people and um this has happened throughout our history and it will happen again and for now i guess the liver king is the king of that yeah what do you guys think about the this whole liver king the the character and doubling down tripling down whatever how many times he's lied about it while still knowing in the back of his head that he did reach out to derrick and he reached out to

a bunch of people not a bunch of people at least two people yeah so two two very very prominent people in the fitness space know for sure that he was on shit but he still doubled down what do you think's going on in his head this whole time like do you think he's like i hope they don't come out with it or is he thinking ah they probably forgot i think rogan kind of hit the nail on the head um joe rogan uh is pretty fucking smart and been around for a long time he's been around a lot of people and i imagine the different situations and predicaments that he's been in he's probably been around a lot of shady people before or been around a lot of high level high performance people as well and in the case of what you see with the liver king i think that he's somebody that apparently he did blow up these

businesses and he got a lot of people around him but i don't think there was ever anyone to tell him right or wrong and you saw the same a similar thing happened with donald trump and i had a conversation with my son about it one day because my son's like you know i i can't believe that you are i'll just say i can't believe that you're in favor of Donald Trump in any way, because you're a very rational person. And he seems like an irrational person. And he's like, I don't know why he continues to do what he does all the time. And I said, Jake, I said, think about it. It has worked time and time and time again, all the way to the point where he's the president of the United States of America. So I think this, you can act a particular way and you can get really, really

far in life. However, you can also have situations where you turn into a fucking monster because there's not someone around you to say, you can't talk about people like that. You can't say that. You shouldn't be doing that. And so I think that is kind of the case of probably what happened with the liver king is he probably just, we talked about earlier how good it feels to have a pump, like you feel invincible.

Imagine feeling invincible with everything that you say and everything that you do, you start to feel that it turns to gold. Man, every video I make has hundreds of thousands of views. Man, look at how quickly I got past these veteran fitness people who have been doing this for a long time. That must have pissed a lot of them off. I went flying right past everybody. And now they hate me because of my success.

And it's like, no, no, no. They don't hate you because of your success. They hate you because I think they're seeing something fishy and they might be right. And they turned out to be, turned out to be correct. You know what? There's a lot of conspiracies going around. People are thinking like all of this was done on purpose

and he's like playing 4D chess with everybody. And you know, one interesting thing though is like, Andrew, going back to what you said, like as he's been doing all of this, he knew that there was a, he knew that he had this back and forth with Steve, right? Steve made a video about this whole thing where he released. Vigorous Steve. Vigorous Steve made an email about how he, you know, why he released all this stuff. And then there was still that thing in Derek's inbox, which who knows if he knew, who knows if he knew, but like there was a smoking gun there

the whole time, right? And the thing is, every single fitness channel is making a video about him. Everyone's talking. Everyone's saying something. And even though from people that pay attention to people in the fitness industry are caring, there's still going to be a lot of people that are going to go follow him because of all of this. He's,

he got on Rogan pretty much. Yeah. Like, like Rogan's mentioned him here and there, but pretty much now he was talked about on the biggest podcast on, on earth. Negative press. Yes.

But then there are going to be people who go from Rogan to his profiles. Negative press. And they did say, they're like, well, we know the supplementation of liver and stuff can be beneficial. They did mention ancestral supplements. Paul Saladino.

There's a lot of stuff in there. So where you're like, yeah. And he and Paul, they are in business together or were in business together. I don't know what's happening with any of that. Think about this. Think about this. I'm thinking.

He was down under this whole time. No one knew about him. He comes up, kills everyone, gets millions of followers, right? Now everyone hates him. I'm not saying this was planned, but now people hate him. Ancestral Supplements is like getting all this new press. Paul Saladino is getting all of this new press. Right now he's still with Ancestral.

So if he's still with that supplement company and let's say he disappears, but now Paul is the man who's still making money. Yeah, I can't think of any one person that said, oh, the nine Ancestral tenants, while some of them might be weird, they will all generally probably do pretty good in a normal person, right? Well, Liver King is daddy in this situation for Paul because he can't detach himself from him. I was thinking the same thing because I saw another video where somebody was talking about like, oh, now Paul's going to cut ties with him. I was like thinking, I was like, yeah, if I pissed off my son,

I don't think he can go anywhere right now. So I had the exact same thought. Yeah, I mean, and maybe he'll figure out a way to rectify that situation. But it's interesting. You see the same thing happen when somebody finds out the practices of, let's say, Apple. And and you're like that's disgusting i can't believe they do this this and this and that's a fucking shit company but then you go and buy like this watch or this thing and you're not even really recognizing that they also own that

company they also own the company that makes the chip that's in your what you know yeah and you start to like go down this rabbit hole it It's similar with Liver King. He owns multiple businesses. So if you really hated him that much, you would have to do a deep dive. And is anyone returning the money that they're making off of Liver King? Liver King is causing a tsunami of fucking money for everybody in the fitness community, including the very video that outed him. Those guys are going to make a lot of money off that video. They could have not monetized it, but they chose to monetize it, right? So everyone's living high off of, including us. We're talking about it right now. People are eating. People are eating. People are eating.

It's helpful. It's great to have somebody that came in with so much energy and so much excitement, like none of that stuff changes. And the fact that he got highlighted and stuff, I just, one thing I hope doesn't happen is I just, I hope that there's not more and more distance between the average person that's 30, 40 pounds overweight and the fitness person, because I already feel like there's too big of a gap. And I've always wanted to try to close that gap because exercise and being a fitness nut can be weird. When I was a power lifter, I always was well aware. That's where the slingshot came from. I was well aware of how weird it was to wear a bench shirt and the squat

suits and all these different things. I was very aware of how weird that was. I'm also very aware of how weird it is to inject yourself with a hormone just to get bigger and more jacked. I recognize how weird and strange that could be to people. But to me, and Derek said it on Rogan, which by the way, Derek did an amazing job on Rogan. That was an incredible show. So people should really listen to that. Um, he did a great job of saying what the basis of lifting weights, the basis of lifting weights and the basis of taking performance enhancing drugs, they both start in a similar spot and it's a spot of self-improvement. So for some people, yeah, maybe they don't feel great enough about themselves and they want to kind of inject themselves with this thing because it's going to fast track the situation or whatever. But, man, we cannot fault people for wanting to be better. We cannot fault people for wanting to do better.

And for some individuals, it was the case with me. At 25 years old, I was like, I really think I should go for this because I love this shit so much. I love training. I've trained for a long time. I did a lot of different types of training. I got myself in pretty good shape. I could probably figure out stuff and lose three pounds and gain four pounds and have these shifts and get a little stronger. And who knows how far I would have been able to take that. But at that age, I was like, I think this will give me the boost that I want. And it sure as hell did. I went from about 220 to about 240 in a pretty short period of time.

It wasn't all muscle. I got kind of bloated and stuff too. I had to really pay attention to my diet and my nutrition. But anyway, back to the main thing of what I was talking about is this is a thing of self-improvement for a lot of people. And I hope that TRT is just taken very seriously. I hope that people don't just kind of wishy-washy be like, I think I'm going to do some TRT. And they get their blood checked once and they hop on testosterone. And because it can be addicting. So I hope that people take that decision very, very seriously.

But I also hope to God that people don't think that you can't achieve fucking shit without taking stuff. Because to me, that's the worst. Like, I don't know. That's just, it kind of breaks my heart because I remember how good lifting felt in the beginning. And I got it with running. You guys got it with jujitsu where you have something new. And it's such an amazing feeling. And for people to not understand that beginning stage, that beginning thing will make you

feel better than any drug will ever impact you. It's going to change your life forever. Power Project family, how's it going? Now we know that strength starts from the floor, which is why we want you guys to build strong feet. That's why we partnered with Vivo Barefoot Shoes, and we've been wearing these shoes for over a year now. Not only are they flexible, zero drop, meaning they're flat. They have a wide toe box, so your feet can do what they need to do inside of the shoe. They also look great. If you go on their website, they have a lot of amazing options from casual wear to in-gym wear to running.

With the old Vivo Barefoot, you can't go wrong and your feet will get stronger as you wear the shoes. So if you're interested in checking them out, head to VivoBarefoot.com slash PowerProject. And at checkout, use the code POWERVIVO20 to save yourself 20% off your entire purchase. Enjoy the episode. There's some people that are really in love with the practice. Like we had Bill Maeda on and he calls it a practice. You, you run. You've lifted for years. Enjoy the episode. One thing that has tended to happen, especially recently, we've had some people on that have said this and we see it on social, is that because of the prevalence of people talking about TRT and even though it's good and it's based off of self-improvement and there are people like Derek who's giving people education on the benefits and the drawbacks. But even though all of that is happening, younger people care more about the result than the practice. And it's hard when you're younger and you're just getting into it and all these other early 20-somethings or 19, 20-year-old dudes are all getting on TRT to get bigger faster.

It's hard to say, I'm not going to do it too. And it's hard to just put in the time to fall in love with the practice of lifting the using your body whatever your practice is being about that life first before you kind of pin to increase it to speed up your results right so it's there's two sides to that you fall in love with the results and you fall in love with the habit it's like such an amazing thing to fall in love with that habit i mean i i feel sometimes i feel a little bit like an alien because I hear some of the things people say. I'm like, I've never felt that way in my whole life. Like what? What do you mean? People that like talk about like wanting just to stay in bed.

David Goggins is talking about looking at his shoes. Now, there are days where I might want to train a little bit more than others because I might just feel better on the inside and stuff. But I never been, I've never been a hit the snooze button kind of person. And the main, the only reason for that, it's not because I'm tough. It's because I love, I really love training. I look forward to it. It's because I love, I really love training.

I look forward to it. Now, there are, I also am very fortunate to have the life that I have. So I don't have this like timeframe that if I miss this timeframe, then I can't exercise for the day, which happens to a lot of people. And that can be, that's annoying and that could be stressful. of people and that can be, that's annoying and that could be stressful. And I could see in that case where you would just, you would halfway want it to maybe stay in bed and miss it, but the other half of you would just super regret it, right? But for me, I'm always so excited and so fired up to train. I mean, I ran five miles this morning and then I came in here and I did a bunch of leg training. Like I'm super pumped about it all the time because I'm kind of amazed at what my body

can do. Not that I feel that what I'm doing is amazing. I've just been doing stuff for a really long time. And I'm like, this is fucking awesome that I don't have any injuries. I feel really good. I'm able to keep this level of consistency going. And when it comes to something like performance enhancing drugs, when it comes to steroids, it might sound really weird to say it, but I love steroids as much as somebody loves alcohol. I love steroids just as much as somebody loves weed.

I know someone's going to get this. But do you mean like an alcoholic? Or do you mean like, I like a sip of wine every day? What do you mean like an alcoholic or do you mean like i like a sip of wine do you mean like differentiation there yeah you know i don't know judge it whatever way you want you motherfuckers well look like so that actually so that actually brings up a good point like you need to drink a certain amount in order to get a certain feeling right in order to get a buzz so um you know i i kind of like riding a little above the trt dosages because again i i'm going based off of how i feel and i am going based off of my blood work so i'm not haphazardly just like blasting tons of shit just just and i'm like i feel great so it wouldn't be in the uh alcoholic sense it would be in the sense

of like uh anyone that anyone that drinks here and there on the weekend to you know further enjoy a party and further enjoy something so it's I know it sounds like a such a strange thing to say that I love it but I really do and to me I don't even put it in a different category as uh even a morning cup of coffee like to me it's this to me it's all similar like it helps make me feel better um and I guess people get uh enamored with the pro bodybuilder and they get enamored with the NFL player that gets busted and they get enamored with the NFL player that gets busted. And they get enamored with the guy that got the gold medal ripped away. Cause he was found using steroids and they kind of make it sound like the guy was like shooting heroin or something like that.

Yeah. You know, Andrew, were you about to say something? Yeah. I, yeah, I don't know.

Well, go ahead. You can go ahead. This is something that I was kind of thinking about after what you said, because, um, we've seen pictures, some pictures of Brian before the liver king thing. And I mean, there is this young picture of him when he was like maybe in his early 20s where he was big.

He was jacked like he was jacked before drugs. Definitely not as jacked, but jacked. Right. Definitely not as jacked, but jacked, right? And I don't know if we were talking about this off air, but sometimes you do wonder in this situation, he's paying what? More than $10,000 a month for gear. Why he felt that I need to do all of this so I could build this following. You feel that you need to be a certain size to then be the turn into the liver king, the influencer, right? There's something rough there. Because when, yeah, that picture, right? And that was probably, I don't know if he was in his late teens or early twenties, but he's sizable there. Not as big as he is now, but he's sizable

and there's probably more development that can happen. But what I'm getting at here is this, we've been lifting and doing physical activity before the age of social media. And there were magazines where they were jacked people or whatever. Right. But those were, there's an aspiration to, I want to get to that level. For me,

it was Greg Plitt. I looked at pictures of Greg Plitt. Like I want, I want to look like that dude when I'm older. So I'm a fucking be in this lifting thing. Didn't know about drugs or anything. Nowadays there is a rush. And,

and even though people are like Derek is, whenever he talks about TRT, he's being careful about it. He's, he makes educational content about how, like, if you're young, just stay away from this for a while, put in the work, build the habits. We say the same shit. But even though that happens, a lot of young guys want to get into the fitness thing, be a fitness influencer and, and, and have their codes for young LA and fucking, you know,

gorilla mind. They want to be like the influencer they look up to, but the influencer that they look up to, that's also in their early twenties has been lifting for a little bit. It's like, all right guys, I'm gonna be honest with you. Now I'm gonna start doing some TRT.

I don't think you should do it. I think you should just stay lifting, but it's just my personal choice. And even though people are continuing to say that they're continuing to give their TRT disclaimer, it doesn't fucking matter because that young 16 year old that's now looking at what you're doing is like, Oh, well he's on TRT. He's on TRT. Well, fuck it. I'm going to fucking do TRNT. It's what everyone does in that's their perception. So it doesn't matter all the things we say, like we should continue to help educate people on it and just help people try to understand.

Please be about the habits because you don't need TRT in your 20s. You really don't. And you might not even need it in your 30s. I don't plan on. Honestly, I think I can probably go without it. But if I do get in a place in my 50s or 60s that I feel it's necessary, OK, I'll do some TRT. But the thing is, it doesn't matter. This is something we're going to see more of and more and more of at younger and younger ages of

guys who can manage to get their hands on it. It's not going to change. And like, I was just thinking about that. And it's like, it's somewhat unfortunate that this fitness thing, you know, when we're talking about health and fitness and hormone therapy is part of that if you're someone who needs it. But a lot of people who are getting on hormone therapy don't need it like the people who really, really need it. Now, I know an argument can be made if you're not feeling mentally, if that's something that can help you feel stronger and better and you're in your early 20s, maybe it's a confidence booster. Maybe it moves you in the direction in life that you want to move into. But there's going to be a lot of people hopping on stuff that definitely don't need to be hopping on

stuff why do you think it's uh kind of a moral thing like where do you guys think that comes from do you think it comes from the fact that it uh is sort of illegal uh do you think it comes from the fact that it's like banned in a lot of sports like where do you guys feel that there's like a moral thing behind steroids i would say initially early on early on as in like maybe 10 years ago it was like the whole like the baseball thing right like oh they're cheating right they're hitting home runs and they're all on steroids they're cheating so that's where it got like a really, it's funny to say that steroids got a bad rap from, you know, sports and stuff.

But especially in a sport where they say specifically that you're not supposed to take it, which I don't think was the case with baseball initially. And I think that was a problem to begin with. Yeah. So in seeing what was going on there is everyone was getting fucking huge. Like Mark McGuire, Barry Bonds. They were getting jacked, and everyone's just kind of like, oh, this is great.

They're hitting 300% more home runs. This is so awesome. I wonder what happened. And then finally, you know, shit came out that they were all on shit. So that's where I would say, like, go back 10, 15 years ago, that's kind of what it was. Now it's just all about like the social media thing. Like, Oh, buy this protein, buy these supplements. I'm natural. And it's like,

well, wait a second, hold on. No, you're not like now you're lying to me. So it's, that's where I think the biggest moral issue comes in today is because everybody has something to sell us included. Um, and everybody has a brand. And if that brand is built on this lie, then everyone freaks out and they're like, no, this is complete bullshit. You know, the moral thing is interesting. Like, for example, myself, I've competed in natural bodybuilding where they test, right? Also, they don't test for some of the stuff you took, though. That's why I fucking hate your guts.

Ba-doom. Gotcha. That was so good. That was good. That was good. Great. I also compete in jujitsu, but also I've been lifting for so long, and I got to a certain size early on because I was already seven years into lifting before I started competing that when I found out about stuff, I was like, number one, I don't need it. Number two, it's too complex. So before we get to the moral thing,

I don't think enough people think about, maybe they do, but side effects of this shit, it's not cute. I don't think it's cool to have smaller balls. I don't think it's a bad thing. Smaller balls don't matter, but I don't want, that's too complicated to have to take certain things to counteract certain things I'm taking. You want to be able to stick your balls in that pussy mug oh yeah

all in that pussy mug yes of course let me take a sip real quick if they get too big you won't be able to fit them in there plus my girl likes my balls um but like there's a lot of side effects it's it's a complex process and i i think that because it's communicated so simply like your body doesn't produce certain things because you're taking certain things exogenously. Certain people have really rough side effects for me. There's just so much to deal with on that end that it's just like, how about you just lift and eat for a while?

And, and the tough thing is the, the tougher thing for more people is again, nowadays you're looking at everybody who's doing the things that you love to do. When you were lifting and when I started lifting, social wasn't a thing. You weren't constantly comparing yourself to people that were doing the same thing. You got some people around you that are about that life, but it's not everyone in the world who's better than you. So there's a pressure now for guys to do this fast.

And it's not fast. Muscle gain isn't a fast thing. So that's why it's like, it's tough for people now, but the moral side of things, if you're an athlete who competes in a sport that, that tests for stuff, you shouldn't be doing that.

But also, I don't know, man, like if you're just a guy who's trying to gain some muscle, I get, if you want to do it faster, I get, I get that testosterone will make it a faster experience

but the thing that's maybe take it as a challenge and see what you can do because I'm trying to think to myself for a young guy right now why would I tell him not to because like doing that will speed up your progress probably

take some tests will speed up your progress you'll gain muscle faster you'll recover faster. There's all these things. There's a bunch of side effects. But the things I talk about is not sexy. Falling in love with the habits of the gym, all the things we talk about,

getting good sleep, dealing with your habits. These things will pay off, but it's not an immediate payoff. And that is something that is tough because with the supplement side of things or the PED side of things, there's immediate payoff. And that is something that is tough because with all these, with the supplement side of things or the PED side of things, there's immediate payoff. And it's hard to convince people that that's not the ideal route to go, getting it now, because we all want it now, right?

I think there's one deterrent that's pretty good and that's, it can mess around with your sex hormones. what that's what you are injecting and you know being married uh makes things a lot easier um you know i've been on cycles before that had fucked me up and i can just say well i think my dick got run over by a truck i don't know what happened she's like wow yeah and that shit ain't cool and it doesn't make your wife or girlfriend or partner doesn't make them feel very sexy when that thing ain't working the way that it's supposed to be working

and who knows what kind of damage you can incur the longer that you've been doing these things and who knows what kind of damage you can run into I'm imagining a younger guy the problem is going to be that they're going to want to take kind of a lot and they're not going to want to listen to the doctor and they're going to want to just, you know, ramp shit up and get fucking jacked. And there, you know, there's,

I don't know, there's just like, there's dangers to that. You know, there's things to consider with that. And then Seema pointing out that they can be complicated. So many people have so many different ways that they think that you should take it. And then if you take testosterone and your testosterone levels start to go up, a lot of times your estrogen will start to go up. You can start to have bitch tits where you have like sensitive nipples. You end up with like gynecomastia. Your balls can shrink. You can end up with really severe bouts of acne um there's a lot of things that can happen i have some i've had friends that have had they had like a little bit of anxiety and then they took some testosterone

and the anxiety was just out of control and they tried to ride it out to see if it was going to do anything and they're like nope it just it made them overly anxious so there are definitely things to really consider but i i just think uh what it can do to your reproductive organs is like as a young person like that is something that you really need to uh you really need to pay attention to because like what if your shit doesn't come back or what if uh it impacts your ability to have a kid and you always want for me i've always liked kids i come from a big family and at most christmas parties and stuff i was always playing with the younger kids or messing around with whatever baby was around and i was always like who the fuck's this because somebody's always making a baby in my family um but you know if that impacted that

that's uh when you meet somebody one day and you know you get to that point where you have that discussion and you can't do that you can't you can't successfully make a baby like that would fucking hurt that would suck that would that might end your relationship with that person so there i mean i think that's i think that's a lot of weight i think that's a big deal yeah fertility rates are plummeting naturally as is and you're gonna add some hormones on top of that to fuck it up i gotta say don't don't lose your train of thought andrew but i gotta say what you mentioned right there to a 20 year old that's just like but man i just want to be fucking jacked man i ain't gonna have them babies until i'm 30 something whatever it's not that like that's not a deterrent because

there's so many people that put this information on they make it sound so simple right when it's not that simple that is just like that's why you just got i wish there were statistics on this like i wish we could really understand because you see it on TikTok. Like you see all these guys getting on to your, like these young kids getting on to your TikTok. But I really wish we could understand, like, how is it affecting younger men? How, how, like how many young men are really that, that are interested in this, the fitness and building muscle? How many of them are choosing to do that? Right. Cause I would assume that in the past few years, it's probably gone up a lot so why do you guys think that we hear this a lot and this was brought up on rogan as well and i've

heard people say this a million times over people will be like yeah that that shit's fucking cheating it's stupid then somebody's like well if there was a movie role that i could get because i got all jacked maybe like that makes sense um to me that's a really interesting statement because that's just someone like chasing fame and chasing like a legacy like if i get in this movie and i'm super jacked and i get this role uh that'll go down in the history books forever and i'll be famous and i'll be amazing so why do you guys think that you hear you've heard that before i'm not making it up no yeah yeah if they if they want me for a role of batman then yeah i'm definitely i'm taking all this shit um i would say it's can you act though yeah no it's it's the uh it's no one's coming to knock on your door

anytime soon so don't worry about it how about you just stop looking so horrible let's start with that i've been working on this monologue trust me it's pretty good um it's it's the um it's the crutches crutch so what i'm saying is like okay people talk about oh i would look that good but he's on steroids so i'm not going to look that good because i'm not going to take steroids and then there's okay well what if oh well if i had a reason then i would do steroids and look that good so it's like the crutches crutch you know so i think that's why they they good. So it's like the crutch is crutch. So I think that's why they say that because it's two things that will just never happen. They're never going to get asked to play the role

and they're never going to get in shape. And I know I just kind of talk shit about a lot of famous people because we hear that on a lot of famous podcasts. But that's what I would say to that is just like there are two things that are just not going to happen so then they talk shit about both. Can you pull a Kumail Nanjiani? I want you to pull Kumail Nanjiani because everyone talks about him, right?

And I mean, okay, this is a situation where it feels kind of obvious, right? I can't be like, you know, man, maybe Liverpool could. I look at Kumail Nanjiani's transformation like, oh, fuck. His chin just got more. guy just got fucking chatted out but the thing is camille nangiani was a massively talented writer comedian and actor who was now like and i see the tough thing about this is rogan and derrick had a great conversation about this i think it like when celebrities are asked, what did you do? You know, men's health, what they do is they, they do a little kitchen, you know, what's in Kamel's

kitchen. And maybe he has changed up his diet and he has changed up his lifestyle. And he's definitely started lifting to aid him in gaining this muscle. But there was definitely some use of some performance enhancing drugs. And when it comes to the famous side of things like the other side of media right they never talk about it but him i don't think there's a problem like he is a professional he's a professional actor who needs to look a certain way for a superhero movie role is it bad that when he's asked about it he's omitting this is one thing actually rogan did mention this too they're never asked directly do you take steroids in these interviews when they talk about their shit they

didn't they're never asked about that they're doing lies of omission they're just not saying it which is something that people i don't even think doing yeah i don't even think that's a lie if you just don't ever talk about it yeah i i mean people some people caught a live emission but also it's not a lie because you aren't asked people are probably leaving comments of fucking syringes and fake natty all over his social media when he posts pics like this but he probably just doesn't engage those comments he they these guys stay away from it fucking um i do jack in some in some cases it's like none of people's business really now again if you're trying to sell something off of it uh that is you're trying to perpetuate that this is the way that you normally do things and that you don't you have

to mention that i mean i remember just uh doing an article with like muscle and fitness and stuff like that years ago and i remember the guy asked me about my diet and I was going over the diet and I was like, well, I was like, you, you can't, you have to mention that I take T3 and then I take these other things. And the guy's like, I don't think that's appropriate for the article. I was like, well, you can't talk about my diet and my transformation without it. And so then he was like going back and forth with like the editor and they were like, like, we're not sure, we're not sure what to do. And ultimately, uh, we didn't, we didn't move

forward with that article. Cause I was like, I don't think there's no reason to talk about a transformation if we're not going to include, we're including all the food and we're including the exercise routine, but we're leaving part of it out. That is really, really helpful. Like it literally helped me a lot. I'm not going to deny that it helped me a ton. So we later just published it in Power Magazine and I could say whatever I want because that was my own magazine. That was your shit. Yeah. That's funny.

I wonder if you could have saved it by being like, this will get you halfway there. The other half is this other shit that I was taking that might have worked. Yeah. What the fuck was I going to ask you guys? yeah uh what the fuck was i gonna ask you guys um i was gonna say i just want to add you know we have derrick coming on the show and i'm i'm super pumped about that yeah it's exciting um you know something with the liver king that i always found interesting and i and i think one reason why i uh why he caught my attention was because right away people were kind of mad at him for like being in shape and being wealthy and i was like and they kept familiar and they kept kind of talking about

how he's talking about how he's trying to like make money off people with all these posts and stuff and i was like i really don't see it in his post especially in the beginning uh most of his regular posts i actually i think it might be hard to find on Instagram, like in a regular post from him or even a real, anything that puts him associated with ancestral supplements. I do know that later on, once he got a big following, he did a lot of stuff in his story. And again, I'm sure that that helped tremendously. So I was always like, man, this is kind of, you know, people are really attacking this guy for making money. But we are all making money off of something. And Derek, who has a lot of videos that out people for taking performance enhancing drugs, he's also part owner of one of the sponsors of the show, which is Merrick Health.

You know, so it's just, that's why I don't like some of this stuff because it can get to be kind of nasty. And when people start to, I'm not saying that Derek is doing anything wrong by any means, but once people start like digging, I'm like, man, I don't want people digging through my shit

and I don't want people digging through your shit. Like I just, I don't really, it just can get, it can get ugly about this guy being with this company and this guy being with this company and this guy's trying to do this because he's trying to sell that it just gets to be kind of tic-tac-y and kind of nasty to some point i think also though what this is one thing i've noticed with derek's content he seems to have been he seems to have really distanced himself from the natty or Not type content for a while. Like for a while. I haven't seen any of that type of content like specifically saying, is this influencer Natty or Not in a long time?

Because I think he realized – I think he kind of hates it. I think he realized like that there is nuance to it because Greg has still been eating that shit up. Greg will be eaten off of Natty or Not for forever. He's going to probably continue to do that shit. But I think Derek has noticed there is an insidious side to this where I could be wrong. You know what I mean? Because Greg got it wrong about Paul Sklar.

Greg got it wrong about Russell Orhe. Greg's gotten it wrong about a few people where he's had to come back and eat his words. But the thing is, is when you tell millions of people that an individual is probably taking performance enhancing drugs. And then you're wrong about it. And then you're just like, Oh, I'm sorry. It's not a little thing to do,

man. Like you called, you called them a liar. Most people aren't, might not see your little response video where you, where you take it back. It's okay. It's like someone's saying,

accusing someone of something. Everyone's like, Oh yeah, they did it. But then a few weeks later it comes out that they didn't actually do anything, but no one sees that shit. You've already given these hundreds of thousands of people the impression that somebody's a liar. That's a big thing to do and it's not safe and it gets very, very, very dirty. very very dirty yeah the uh the the calling out video might get a i don't know throw a number out there a million views yeah the apology gets 200 000 whatever you know like it's it's fucking not even close yeah um but what oh go ahead i wanted to respond your thing too you you kind of touched on mark when you're talking about camille nangiani it is kind of different with those dudes because if you're in fitness and you're you're saying the supplement did this

and this did this but you are on peds like that's a different thing than just being a movie star that's gonna fucking play a superhero and you're asked about what you eat you know it's i'm not saying it's right but i'm saying it's different you know yeah it seems less offensive yeah i mean it is less offensive yeah no uh mark like when decided, like you planted your flag and you're like, I'm going to commit to fitness forever because you love it so much. The very next day when you started going to the gym, did you start thinking, oh, I'm going to do this because I'm going to have an empire called Slingshot one day and I'm going to build a multimillion dollar company and then other companies as well. Was that like the first thing that you thought of when you started lifting? No, I never, you know, I think that after I lifted for some years, I felt because of my strength and maybe some genetics,

I felt like I could maybe turn this into something one day. I had no idea it would be like a career or anything like that. Okay, so I asked that question because like, you know, in CMA you're talking about like oh how can we deter somebody um somebody does see the young la influencer and shit and they're like i'm gonna get on the juice because i want to be that yeah it's like bro like give it a couple of years you have no clue what you actually want to end up doing you might even not even like fitness in like four years right like you might get into jujitsu and all of a sudden it's like oh now i'm on shit i can't compete at ibjjf i always fuck yeah okay you know what i mean like things

can change but once you get on you're kind of on forever unless you try to get off and then that might cause a whole bunch of other slew of issues so that would be my thing is like to be like dude you don't know where you're gonna end up you don't know where you're gonna be next year you might have to move and all of a sudden it's like so many different variables have now changed so to start taking something because you want to be that influencer now seems so silly when you're so young because you have no freaking clue mark started lifting he had no idea that he was gonna build all this in sema for yourself when you started lifting. He had no idea that he was going to build all this. And Seema, for yourself, when you started lifting, you got into bodybuilding and shit. Did you have any idea that you'd be on a podcast? Like, there's no way we could have ever have guessed that we'd be doing what we're doing right now.

I actually also, I started lifting at 13, but I didn't make, I didn't even decide to do bodybuilding or compete in it until I was 21. There you go. And before that, I had no goals of competing in it. It was when I was 21 when someone go like and by like before that i had no goals competing in it it was when i was 21 which someone said oh you should compete i was like okay i just loved lifting right and then so that's the other thing it's like it is based off my experience it is extremely easy to be um very consistent to be very motivated and to have the the very strong habit of going to the gym daily when you're on shit. I wish I had that same motivation before I ever got on something. So if you can

develop that habit first, I know again, that's not the sexy thing, but it is too easy to get motivated and be consistent when you're on something. And then when you're not on something, it's not maybe as easy, but what if you did fall in love with it so much that it became easier? Like that's something else that you should probably be trying to get yourself to do before you ever try to get on something. And I know a lot of people are like, no, not me, bro. I'm ready. This is my life. It's like, okay, again, like you've been at it a couple years.

Give it some more time. It's so powerful that I reach out to friends and I'll tell them, you know, they'll have a family member die or something really horrible happened. And I'll say, Hey man, you know, do your best the next couple of days, try to get around some good friends. But hopefully I won't, you know, hopefully I hear that you're in the gym. Cause it's like it, when people love it, when they, when they have been training, it's,'s it's your it's your go-to no matter what the situation is no matter how bad the situation is you're like oh man this fucking sucks but all right i'm just going to the gym and i don't know maybe it's not the most spectacular

day you've ever had in a gym but you start to move around some weights you break a sweat maybe you get a little pump you feel accomplished accomplished. And feeling accomplished, it never hurts. It will always help with just about everything. So developing that habit at a young age, I mean, I'm super proud of my son, Jake, watching him come in here. And he just kind of kicked the tires for a while coming through here, just always on the preacher crawl machine. And I just would watch him come in. I'm like, don't say anything.

Just fucking let him do his thing. It's his life. It's his own life. It's not your just would watch him come in. I'm like, don't say anything. Just fucking let him do his thing. It's his life. It's his own life. It's not your life. Let him fucking go. And it wasn't easy, but I did. And he's like, he loves it. He's, you know, I got home yesterday and he's cooking up his meat and I'm cooking up my

meat in the pan next to him. And we got all the bodybuilding jokes all day long for Andy, and she can't handle it anymore. That's so good. That's fucking awesome, man. That's fucking awesome. I'll survive. But yeah. Anyway, I think it's good for us to come out and just say the truth so I think I can finally say that this entire time I've been natural.

I knew it. say that this entire time I've been natural. I knew it. The stuff in Bigger, Stronger, Faster. I was hired by an ad agency to be an actor in the movie. My brother Chris, he's not actually my brother. He's my husband. And most of this has just been – I feel comfortable now. I mean I've been friends with you guys for a long time and audience.

You're starting to get the gist of me nowadays. So I'm going to, yeah. So you're just quitting? He left the building. Oh, he's getting some peanut butter. Oh, yeah. I'm glad you said something because it's been killing me inside. When you showed me your box of steroids, I was like, this isn't, this isn't actual, like that's Tylenol.

Yeah. A fake box. A Nike box with all the stab wounds in it. The syringes were all like baby Tylenol where you pull up and I'm like, Mark, I don't, all right. And so like I just been quiet this whole time for the past like six, seven, six years. I still have that Nike box. It's got like literal blood on it. To make it look even faker

yeah I want to give you this natural nut butter I've been waiting for you to finally say this this whole time that's been sitting on that desk

because I'm like Mark needs to just come out and talk about it you had your nuts in there no it's a natural nut butter macadamia nut butter

so this is for you go ahead stick your pinky in there and take a dab because now you're part of the the natty Club. Is it all oily though?

Oh. Take a dab. Tastes natural, doesn't it? I'm now the smallest and the most unnatural person on this podcast. This is bullshit. This is actually Brad Kern's macadamia masterpiece it's

pretty fucking good brad thank you brad why is he trying to make us fat he brought he brought me a bag of plantain chips that shit's dangerous you know what's funny plantain chips yeah well you know it's just you're probably right on the pronunciation nigerians call it plantain we make a lot of stuff with plantain so okay no i i have no idea i just read it and english is kind of tricky sometimes so it looks like it says plantain but how could you lie lie to everyone for so long though like why were you playing this game of i'm mark and i'm on steroids and i'm open and honest when you actually weren't that guy, was it just a, was it just a fucking game of chess this whole time?

Uh, yeah, just, you know, um, just, it was a social experiment. Ah,

yeah. I've been working on for a long time. Dude, that's really fucking high level of you. Yeah. Yeah. This whole thing. So then did you really squat a thousand 80?

That's hard to say. All natty. You did it all natty. I might have. Oh my God. That's awesome. That might be a natty world record then. And you know,

what I'm most concerned about is that my TRT clinic is probably going to hit, you know, take a huge hit from this admission. But you know, so when they send you stuff, do you just throw it away? Yeah, pretty much.

Can I have it? How about giving it to me? Don't just throw it away. That was a joke, guys. I wasn't joking. I know you weren't. Where's your lab test? I can do another.

I've done quite a few. What? I posted the blood work. Did you? Yeah. It's on my IG and on my youtube channel okay yeah because i can't get doctored at all motherfucker derrick has had my blood work okay for years actually not for years for like a year andrew take us out of here buddy i'm gonna try to hopefully i don't have a coffee covered everything i think we did too yeah yeah all right let us know what you guys think in the comments uh i mean i'm sure you guys have a lot to say about uh today's conversation with liver king and all that good stuff we want to hear it uh make sure you guys follow the podcast at mb power project on instagram

tiktok and twitter my instagram tiktok and twitter is at i am andrew z and make sure you guys uh like that video or like this video on your way out and subscribe if you guys are not subscribed already. PowerProject.live for everything podcast related. And Seema, where you at? PowerProject Discord below, at Seema Eni on Instagram and YouTube, at Seema Yin Yang on TikTok and Twitter. Mark?

I got a smelly tip for today. Oh, do you? Let's smell it. Hey now. Hey now. I downloaded the Nike Run app, and it's pretty cool. You can actually run with somebody. They'll give you coaching.

They'll kind of give you cues and all that kind of stuff. But you can see your time. You can see your pace. So it's a good idea if you're somebody that, let's just hypothetically say that you can run a 12 minute mile pretty easy. It's like not hard for you at all. You can recover from it very easily. You might want to try just for maybe 30 minutes to run maybe around a 10, 30 or 10 minute mile pace. And when you have something that's tracking you and you have,

you keep kind of looking at it, you'll find yourself dwindling. Like you'll be going pretty good and you'll be going a little bit too fast and you'll slow down and it's actually really difficult to pace yourself and try to go the same speed the whole time. So that's been interesting for me to try to track and I think it could be really helpful because just like having a program when you lift or having a 5x5 preset, even when you get into it and it's fairly difficult, but you decide this is still safe enough for me to go through. That's when you come out the other end a little bit stronger, a little bit better for it.

Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.