Mark Bell's Power Project - World's First “Blue Light Free” Computer - Anjan Katta || MBPP Ep. 1081

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

In episode 1081, Anjan Katta, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about how Anjan created the worlds first blue light free computer, The DC-1 from DaylightCo. For more info visit: https://daylightcomputer.com/   Official Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below!   🍆  Natural Sexual Performance Booster 🍆 ➢https://usejoymode.com/discount/POWERPROJECT Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   🚨 The Best Red Light Therapy Devices and Blue Blocking Glasses On The Market! 😎 ➢https://emr-tek.com/ Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   👟 BEST LOOKING AND FUNCTIONING BAREFOOT SHOES 🦶 ➢https://vivobarefoot.com/powerproject   🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save up to 25% off your Build a Box ➢ Piedmontese Beef: https://www.CPBeef.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   🩸 Get your BLOODWORK Done! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com/PowerProject to receive 10% off our Panel, Check Up Panel or any custom panel, and use code POWERPROJECT for 10% off any lab!   Sleep Better and TAPE YOUR MOUTH (Comfortable Mouth Tape) 🤐 ➢ https://hostagetape.com/powerproject to receive a year supply of Hostage Tape and Nose Strips for less than $1 a night!   🥶 The Best Cold Plunge Money Can Buy 🥶 ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained:      ➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!   ➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Become a Stronger Human - https://thestrongerhuman.store ➢ UNTAPPED Program - https://shor.by/JoinUNTAPPED ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en   Follow Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Podcast Courses and Free Guides: https://pursuepodcasting.com/iamandrewz ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz/ ➢ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@iamandrewz   #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

Meet the people at Facebook or Google, they're not evil. They're just trying to do well in their homework. And the other side is lost sleep, is little girls killing themselves. The actual way a computer emits light plays a role in how addicting it is. When you're exposed to artificial blue light, you are telling one of the clocks in your body that,

hey, it's 1 p.m. And the other clocks in your body are like, wait, we have food in me, it's been this on, we've been up for that, my adenosine is doing this, my cortisol is doing that, huh? In real life, we call that chaos. When chaos happens in the body, we have food in me, it's been this on, we've been up for that, my adenosine is doing this, my cortisol is doing that, huh? In real life, we call that chaos. When chaos happens in the body, we call that inflammation. Yeah, you're launching this bad boy soon.

Yeah, first computer ever with no blue light. Yeah, six years to get here. With your technology, you can see your screen awesomely outside. It actually is even nicer in the sun. People will not realize how much better they'll feel until they actually use this, and you switch back. This is a computer that does less.

I am literally telling you that it will help you do more because it does less. If you guys have been enjoying the content we've been bringing here on The Power Project, consider leaving us a review on Spotify and Apple. We've had podcasts with people from Functional Patterns to Ben Patrick to Jack Cruz, who roasted us on air, but we did that for you.

To bring you some of the best information in fitness, we're learning along with you and leaving a review with how you dig the podcast is really gonna be something that helps the podcast move forward. So if you can, leave us a review there and enjoy the rest of the show. Great to have you on the show today, really appreciate it. And how did this come to be?

How did you make slash create this computer slash tablet thingy? Well, thanks for also giving me an excuse to do a beautiful drive to come here. We have a keynote on Thursday and I came up with it on the way over. Yeah, you're launching this bad boy soon. First computer ever with no blue light.

Yeah, six years to get here. How did this come to be? You could call this the world's longest customer complaint. I have been so pissed about computers for so long. I have seasonal affective disorder. I'm very ADD. And my eyes just hurt all the time. I would read lots of science papers, spend hours and hours researching things.

And I just felt like shit using my computer. I would read lots of science papers, spend hours and hours researching things. And I just felt like shit using my computer. And I blame myself, like, oh, I suck. Work harder, try harder. And at a certain point, I just hit a breaking point where it's like, dude, I don't care. I don't care if it's my fault, they don't have enough willpower.

I don't care that it's my fault that if I was a better person, I'd get less distracted. I don't care that if my eyes were stronger I just said screw this I'm not gonna blame myself anymore Can we make a computer that doesn't trash my health that doesn't make me feel like the worst version of myself and I was tired of complaining. I was tired of YouTube comments at the bottom of verge articles sitting there and ranting. And so I said, okay, I'm gonna try something. Fuck this, I'm gonna try something.

And that's kind of what this was, was an act of desperation to make the computer I've always wanted. That wouldn't make me feel so bad. How did you learn about it? I learned about what? There's a lot. Yeah, how'd you learn about like,

I don't know, the addictive properties. Cause like, I guess it's hard to decipher. You know, is it YouTube that's addictive? Is it Instagram? Is it TikTok? Or is it the actual screen? Is it the blue light? Right.

I think what was really cool about the journey is so much of it was empirical. It was like my experience. And so the key thing there was realizing I might not just be an outlier, I might be a canary. I think everybody faces this, but because of the unique makeup of my brain and body, I faced it more acutely.

And so the first thing was recognizing that this may affect more people, so it's kind of worth doing. The truth of the matter is I was willing to do it even if all I did is help me. But I could just, I could pay attention to my experience. Like, when I used my Kindle, I fell asleep, regardless of what was going on.

When I used my iPad, I was up until 4 a.m. Relate. Right, like, I sat there and when I tried to write it by hand on a legal pad, I would finish first draft of something. When I sat there on Google Docs with Chrome, three hours later, I had 800 tabs. I just saw my experience. Was just the worst version of me. It wasn't the best version of me.

In many ways, a computer is supposed to make you the best version of yourself and to your point like well what's the culprit and I think one really interesting frame somebody said is Gary Kasparov is one of the smartest people on earth and was the best chess player when IBM with Deep Blue beat him. That was a billion dollar algorithm beating the world's best chess player and one of the world's smartest people. Today, when you're on the other side of Facebook or Instagram or YouTube, that's a trillion dollar algorithm and you're just average Joe. And you don't even know you're playing a game.

Gary at least sat there and was like, Grrr, dude, you're on your toilet, man. It's a good luck. And I think that is so much of the culprit of this, which is you have the world's smartest people sitting there trying to steal your time. Totally unaccountable. You meet them, they're not evil.

You meet the people at Facebook or Google, they're not evil. They're just trying to do well in their homework. They're just like trying to be a good boy, you know? Get their OKRs to go up, their numbers to show, oh, average retention. And the other side is lost sleep, is little girls killing themselves, is the loss of our life. Our life is time. And time literally is being drained every day by these computers because they're like sophisticated slot machines of dopamine.

And so I would say a lot of the culprit is the misaligned incentives between us and these free tech products that we're using all the time. And we're ultimately, you know, the product. But if the story I think ended there, it might be a little bit frustrating because there's only so much we can do. I think there's a lot, but still like,

the status quo has been its way for more than a decade. People have been trying, there's that social dilemma movie, people have been complaining, you've been trying to solve this with regulation. I think what's both empowering and surprising is actually there's more to this story. I think the physiology aspect actually really matters. And what I mean by that is I think the physiology aspect actually really matters.

And what I mean by that is I think the actual way a computer emits light plays a role in how addicting it is. And what I mean by this is the science is still not like entirely clear on what is the causative factor, but we know it's one from this bundle. Is it the fact that computer screens are emissive? Is it the fact they have flicker? Is it the fact they have blue light? Is it the fact they're oversaturated with colors? But the combination of all of this makes it at a physiological level,

you're more in a sympathetic response. You're more in attention. You're more in a mode of entrainment, which is why I think a lot of computers make kids ADHD, is they're actually having a forcing function onto somebody. And so there's a phenomenon known as screen apnea, which is sleep apnea, is when you're asleep, you don't breathe well. Screen apnea is when you're on a normal,

emissive conventional screen, you breathe less. Can I add something in real quick? Don't lose your train of thought. I remember when I was in my early 20s with my ex-girlfriend, I was on my iPad and I had my headphones on. And she pulled my headphones off and she's like, why are you breathing like that?

I was like, well, what do you mean? She's like, first off, you're breathing a little bit louder and it seems like your breath is just off. I didn't notice it because I had noise canceling headphones on. But then when I started paying attention while I was using it, I was like, fuck, when I do this, my breathing does get off.

It's like weird. So a lot of people, that's what happens to them. You'll see them on a tablet and then they're suddenly going, it's not good. I do the same thing. I tend to hold my breath when I'm doing it. I'm like, shit, what am I doing? And what's crazy about that is we kind of lose the thread

when we call it addiction or distraction. Because actually a lot of it too is just avoidance. When you are in that sympathetic, when you are breathing shallower and less frequently, there's a comfort response. There's a want to get out of that discomfort that's further driving that need for that dopamine that Facebook or Instagram or YouTube is providing. So you're physiologically setting up somebody to not be in their prefrontal cortex, that best version of themselves. You're setting them up to be in their brain stem, in their lizard brain,

to be in that part that wants to eat the chocolate chip cookies and the dopamine drips. And I think the reason that this second, that the addiction is not just because they have trillion-dollar algorithms, that it may actually come from the physical nature of a computer, the reason I think that's so empowering is we can actually do something about it without needing a lot of willpower on behalf of the customer. And so I think one of the most surprising things I found in my experience was when I tried to work on a Kindle or when I tried to print stuff out,

I was just able to do things better. When I designed my environment, I sat outside when I was in a plane and I had nothing to do except everything was airplane mode, I could read that book. And when I got the first prototype of our thing, I was like, wait, I'm getting bored of YouTube. Because one of the capabilities of our thing is it's fast enough you could actually watch video. It's been like a decade since I've been bored of YouTube.

I forgot when it first came out and its UI was so ugly on mobile. Like you could get bored of this, right? You could be like, oh, I'm done. I haven't had that feeling in so long. I always have to pull myself away from YouTube. It's like never gets bored. On a screen that isn't got flicker,

that doesn't have blue light, that doesn't have over saturated colors and is paper like a reflective rather than emissive, you get bored of YouTube. You get bored of Instagram. And sure, it's not like you can admire a peacock in its full beauty and splendor when it's a black and white, but for most of the part, like, you're kind of able to consume what you need to do,

especially for work or school. And these algorithms don't have the same pull on you. And so it's almost like a more even playing field. And I think that is so empowering that we can take our physiology back same pull on you. And so it's almost like a more even playing field. And I think that is so empowering that we can take our physiology back and then we can be the better version of ourselves versus the dopamine feasting version they all want us to be.

Before we continue, I know it's like a quick search away, but what is emissive? I'm not sure what it means. It's probably a few people don't. So when you look at your iPad or you look at your MacBook, we just call that a computer screen. It turns out actually early in the history, there was a competition between two different technologies

for computer screens. It's based off the principles of light. In reality, you can have objects that are visible like ultimately because of two reasons. One is some light source, i.e. the sun, is bouncing light off of it. That's called reflective, or we call that paper light because it's like a piece of paper.

Like this here. Yeah, you turn off the lights, you can't read your book. You need to turn on a lamp, you need to turn on a candle. It's not producing its own light, it's not emitting its own light. It's simply bouncing the light that's being created from the sun or even the light bulbs here. The second type of thing is it's self-emitting or emissive.

So this is like the stars or a campfire where it is actually producing the light that's hitting you in the eye, like a flashlight. And there's two ways you can build computer screens. You can build computer screens that are reflective. They bounce the light from an external light source or you can build computer screens that are reflective. They bounce the light from an external light source, or you can build computer screens that are self-emissive or emitting that create their own light, i.e. flashlights.

And it wasn't clear in the beginning which of these two technologies was gonna win, but the emissive one ended up winning. And the reason was, is it's so much better for movies and TV and video games and beautiful visuals. Because when you're reflecting light, you're a servant to your environment. You know, you're not creating the light. So whatever light is there is what it's going to look like.

So if the light's a little more dim, your image is going to be a little more dim. If the light is a little more warm, you're not going to get perfectly reproduced colors. They're going to be warm. And so much of technology is saying, fuck you to nature, right? It's like, regardless of what happens, like I'm going to win. And that's what a self-emissive technology is. It's just like, it's just emitting.

It's just competing with everything else that's there. And so it's fantastic for Netflix. It's fantastic for Instagram. But what was lost in it is when you're trying to compete with nature, you lose the way in which our physiology was evolved to be in harmony with nature. And an emissive screen is not in harmony with its environment, it is competing with its environment. And so that's kind of what we're resurrecting is an early part of computing that's been forgotten about,

which is you can make computers with reflective screens. And the only instance we really have of this is like a Kindle or something like that. But there are e-readers, they're not computers. You can't do email and chat GPT and Google Docs on it. Can't watch video. Can't watch video. Can't listen to this podcast.

And so that's what we're trying to resurrect. In many ways, we don't really have a new idea. We're just resurrecting an old idea in computing. And with your technology, you can see your screen awesomely outside. It actually works great in the sun. Because it doesn't compete with the sun. It uses the sun.

It actually is even nicer in the sun than not because the sun is brighter than almost any light bulb you can have. So it's literally utilizing the sun, just like a piece of paper, and it's bouncing that light into your eyes. And so you do get variation. When it's less sunny, the screen isn't as bright,

and this and that, but hey, that's what most objects and most of reality has been like for humans. So it's almost a humbling of computer, because you don't get the same color gamut, heck, our thing is black and white. You don't get it to be perfectly consistent in every environment. But in many ways, you know,

the tomatoes at Walmart are all homogenous, they're all perfect, they're all shiny, but they're not as good as you, than an actual real tomato. They may not be as red, may not be as shiny, but it's actually real. And that's what we're trying to do. Go away from that shiny tomato computers too.

So that's a bit more real. I've always wondered because when I discovered E Ink screens, I was blown away. I've had trouble with my vision since like forever. And I always found that like, oh, my eyes don't strain when I'm like watching or I'm reading on a Kindle or something, you know, whatever. And so like I instantly wanted to E Ink my whole life. Like I didn't want to look at LCD screens

anymore. And in my head at the time, I'm like, okay, I just want a basic black and white screen. Like this is dope. I can't wait to see, you know, who comes out with it or like, you know, what they're going to cost. And then what I found was there were a couple of very like, cheaply made screens and stuff, and they were like insanely priced. And so I was always confused. It seems like it's, and I don't mean to like put down your computer, but it does seem like it's like a couple steps back, right? We have 4k screens, we have the craziest like HDR, everything and it's there's so much technology and I'm like I just want a basic gray scale looking screen Why is it so expensive? So in like your research and everything what I guess what is it that makes

Eating screen so expensive because even my Kindle right here is very expensive in comparison to like an iPad or that sort of thing Which has way more computing power, right? It's a great question. And I think a couple frames are first, we actually invented our own display technology. So it's an evolution of E Ink. So the E Ink patents, there's actually only one company in the world that can make it, so they're a monopoly.

That's a lot of the reason why it's so expensive. We're outside of that. And they don't improve it because they have no reason to, even if they can, they're just, you know, whatever, why they're making 80% margin on each of that. And they don't improve it because they have no reason to, even if they can, they're just, you know, whatever, why they're making 80% margin on each of these. So we actually, it's our own manufacturing process. We have an exclusive with the factory in Japan. We're able to improve the technology.

And to your point, like, yeah, in some ways, it is a couple steps back, but the analogy that comes to, like you said, it's not 4K yet. And that's the big thing is we can get there too. You're not gonna, there's always gonna be some inherent trade-offs with picking a reflective versus emissive thing. Kind of what I was saying,

it's not gonna always be that consistent. It's gonna depend on the environment. You can eventually get color. You can get to high resolution 4K or whatever you want. There is no HDR because the HDR is, that's like when you emit your own light. This is perfect HDR if you're in the sun because you're as bright as the sun is. But the frame here is I remember going to an investor's house and it was like a beautiful mansion

in the Bay Area and like went to use his bathroom and I sat down and the toilet paper was like on the wall that was in front of me. And I like reached for it. I was like, what? I had to get up and walk over and pull down a couple sheets and then come back. Oh no. And the room, the bathroom was so beautiful. It was like Venetian marble and just like the toilet like heated your ass. And now there's shit on the floor. There's a little dribble.

No comment. And I was like, dude, this is the problem. They got all the pizzazz and they didn't get the fucking basics, man. Put the toilet paper beside the fucking toilet. And I think that's computers today. Is they got the pizzazz, they got the 4K, they got the, oh, it's got 30 million colors, look at this HDR. And the fucking toilet paper's on the other wall.

It doesn't give a shit about your health. It doesn't give a shit about your sleep. It doesn't give a shit about your attention. Who cares if it's got 4K and you wake up and you see 32 notifications that immediately hijack you? So I think it's like, yes, we're just starting. Our house isn't as fancy. It's not got Venetian marble in it,

but we're starting by putting the toilet paper beside the toilet, and then we're gonna build from there. That's true. Yeah, you know, and a lot of people probably don't know this, but your phone can make phone calls. It even does phone calls. Like the one that's connected to the wall, or what do you mean?

In fact. You know, I do want to add in one, such a cool thing about what you're talking about here is the fact that we don't notice. Like I didn't notice this years ago. You know, I was stuck on my phone. I'd be watching TV late at night. I didn't know years ago that I was affecting my health.

When I started wearing those like red glasses while watching TV in the evening, I was like, wow, I'm feeling so fucking tired. Holy, usually I can watch this and I'm not feeling, like when I go to bed, I'm usually not tired. I just go to bed because it's 11 p.m. Now I'm tired at nine? What? And then everything starts moving forward

for terms of my health because I'm not letting technology, like yeah, I'm still using the TV. Probably shouldn't be, probably should be trying to wind down. But the fact is it's not affecting me negatively and I can feel that impact. And the unfortunate part about this is that a lot of people won't feel that impact unless they start going down the road of trying to not let technology rule the way they do things. Yeah, to me that's, there's so much profundity in your statement

because it's almost like those of us who are doing something about it is because it affects us acutely. This is the problem with having people from Stanford on the podcast. Sorry, everybody. What does it mean? Google it, Andrew. What the fuck? Try to spell it.

I can't. Profundity? He's like, these guys are very... Profound, profund. It means to get really fat, I think. Yeah. At least I had something with emissive. This isn't-

That cake is making me profundity. It's the white Jesus in front of me. There we go. Thank you. Thank you. What's up? What's brown time again? BSD.

BSD, brown standard time. Why what you said really landed for me. Yeah. Yeah, is that going okay? Was it for all, it affects all of us, but it's not necessarily acute for all of us. And so much of our culture, especially medicine, is so good.

If you cut your leg off, oh, trauma care, great, got you. It's when it's chronic. And to your point, it's almost like we're worse off because the human capacity to buffer change and adapt and handle stress is so good, but then that accumulates over a long period of time, right? That externality still does happen. And so the fact that all of us,

when we're looking down at our phone, our carotid arteries are slightly pinched. There's a good theory that we're all kind of a bit dumber because our blood supply to our brain is all slightly pinched because we're like this. You know, even laptops, you're like this. It's not actually here. The fact that that blue light

is making everybody's circadian rhythm a little more wonky. You know, there's a great quote by this Australian circadian rhythm researcher where he says, imagine you were in London and your watch and the train conductors watch and Big Ben all had different times. Good luck trying to catch your train. There's a reason we need coordinated clocks

is so you can get to your platform and the conductor knows it's time to go and Big Ben says the same thing. So you can get to your train on time. That's how you can coordinate across a lot of different people, a lot of different people, a lot of different things. And you can argue when your computer says four gigahertz,

that's a clock. Your computer is coordinating across the clock four billion times a second, it's doing a tick. And everything in a computer happens when those ticks happen. And that's why you want to buy a four gigahertz computer not a one gigahertz, because the more things it can do, the more ticks it has, the more,

like it can't do things outside of a tick. Yeah. Your body also has clocks, you know, of multiple different lengths, hourly clocks, you know, portion of a day clock, a day clock, so on and so on. All your different hormones, your secretions, the different metabolic processes inside of you

are synchronized to these clocks. And when you're exposed to artificial blue light, you are telling one of the clocks in your body that, hey, it's 1 p.m. And the other clocks in your body are like, wait, we have food in me, it's been this on, we've been up for that, my adenosine is doing this, my cortisol is doing that, huh?

And so Big Ben is saying something, and the train conductor's watch is saying something something and the other watch is saying something different. In real life, we call that chaos. When chaos happens in the body, we call that inflammation. And so there's this, I think, profound impact across society in autoimmune and metabolic disease and inflammation and chronic fatigue that comes from this circadian disruption. Because end of the day, large collections of objects need clocks to coordinate, and that's what your tissue and cells and organs are.

And so it's not just, oh, blue light, and ooh, my melatonin is a little bit off. No, there's deep downstream impacts from growth hormone across the entire thing. And so I think it's taken a while because, you know, we've only had iPhones and gadgets for a certain period of time. True.

Previously, they didn't actually emit as much blue light as the stuff has. As these things have gotten better and brighter, they actually got worse health-wise. They use all sorts of techniques and they use Flickr and PWM and frame rate control and dithering. They've actually gotten worse for you

because they're optical illusions. Essentially, they're figuring out more for you because they're optical illusions. Essentially they're figuring out more and more tricks. The body's smarter than any of this. It just accumulates it over a long period of time. And so I think the great possibility here is people will not realize how much better they'll feel until they actually use this and you switch back.

Right, like when now when you go back to that, you'll notice the difference. And anybody who's a kind of a doubter of this, I would just say go camping before you know it. You sleep at 8pm, you get up at 6. You know, you don't, it doesn't require effort or willpower. You know, there's no Wi-Fi, there's no stimulation, you're in nature. And so I think in many ways, there's kind of a great humbling required for technology now where it always wants to be bright and beautiful and delight you and change your

life. And it's like, that's great, but that's 12 year old boy energy, right? Like what it means to grow up is you gotta do, you gotta do the meat and potatoes. You gotta do the basics, even if it's more boring. And to me, the basics have to start with your health and has to start with respecting your attention. I wanna have a serious conversation with you

about your balls. And I'm being serious here. On this podcast, we talked about a lot of things to help men improve the health of their penis because it's important and your balls have very thin skin. This is true, you can touch them right now and you know it's pretty thin. Women do a lot of things to take care of their vaginal health

and men, we don't really think about the things that we put right directly on our balls, like our boxers. A lot of popular brands out there have chemicals that are literally touching your balls. Think about this, when you're in the gym sweating, when you're at work sitting, when you're doing all these things, these things could be permeating into your scrotum.

Things like BPA, phthalates, pesticides, incesticides, toxic dyes, toxic fertilizers, formaldehyde, all of which could lead to and could exacerbate lower testosterone, erectile dysfunction, and potential infertility. That's why we've partnered with NADS. And NADS is made with 100% organic cotton and no toxic dyes. So instead of putting just anything on your manhood, it's a good idea to get your hands on some NADS. And Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, that's over at nadsunder.com. That's N-A-D-S-under.com. And at checkout,

enter promo code powerproject to save 15% off your entire order. Again, that's at NADSunder.com. Links in the description as well as the podcast show notes. It seems like we're getting dumber and smarter at the same time. Dumber in a sense that we have to be so connected to somebody like yourself that can create this technology or a government or Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. It wasn't that long ago that if I was traveling somewhere that I had a Thomas guide in my car, which was like bigger than this map that you know, that you would spread across your dashboard. Talk about like a driving hazard,

you're trying to figure out where to go and you got this giant map and they had Thomas guides everywhere. Every gas station you would stop at had these big Thomas guides of like particular areas, particular regions, counties, states, and so on. And you can kind of drive across California or drive across the United States or whatever it might be.

And then at that point, you kind of needed some knowledge of like reading a map. You didn't need to be like a great explorer or anything like that, but you need some knowledge like where the hell you were going and to try to follow it. And it was kind of tricky, but over time, like we don't really have to read maps

anymore, we can just type it into our phone or into our car. Even a Tesla will just like literally like take you there. And if you remember as a child, when you're getting driven around and then you have the opportunity to drive, you have no idea where the fuck to go, right? Because you were never paying attention when mom and dad took you to all these different spots

that you went to a thousand times, but you still don't know how to get there. And I just think it's, there's a lot of interesting things going on, but I think we're gonna get to a point where reading is really not required. It's not gonna be required to really read well, in my opinion, within the next couple of years.

And does some of that kind of stuff, does that sort of scare you or are you, I mean, I guess you gotta kind of be, you're pro technology, but there's gotta be a part of you because it seems like you're trying to introduce things and do things as natural as possible without a negative consequence. Right, there's a great quote that the greatest art inherently has all these tensions.

And I think our project is full of contradictions. It's a fuck you to technology and it's also a love letter to technology. It's saying let's respect nature and it's making a gadget, right? Like at the end of the day, there are tensions here. And I think that's what makes it beautiful. And I think that's what makes it tricky.

And to your point, like with chat GPT and AI being able to do everything for you and you can even do it verbally, and it can be that perfect girlfriend who will listen to you and take your shit forever, and you never need to learn to actually own your own shit. Yeah, I think it's dangerous. There's a great quote, which is,

technology is now giving us the power of gods, but none of us have the wisdom of gods. It's like great power comes great responsibility. And so I think a big part of this task, not just us as a company, but society is, how do we teach wisdom? How do we become responsible as we're giving people great powers?

It's like Promethean flame. So there's so much possibilities for learning and education. And you could argue society is pretty unfair. If your lawyer knows more than you, he could say, hey, this is how much you have to pay for your divorce and what are you going to do, right? But with AI and stuff like that, you can have an AI on your side

that's read every legal case that's out. You can say, eh, no, that's not how much it's going to cost. So the possibility of democratizing intelligence, the possibility of breaking down, you know, asymmetries of knowledge. Somebody knows more than you and says, trust me, bro. And you say, okay, well, the doctor knows more than me.

The ability to break that down, to empower people, I think is incredibly powerful, but it's also gonna require an openness, a humility and a responsibility. Because sometimes your doctor just knows more than you, not all the time, but on some things, on some particular stuff. Sometimes that, you know, your parent or whoever it may be.

And so I think there's this fascinating balance of like empowerment and sovereignty and decentralization and also still the need and the respect for humility and constraints. And so I think that's the way I see our project is you can have more power if you can be more intentional about the constraints you put around it. And that's what this is.

This is a computer that does less. And I'm literally telling you that it will help you do more because it does less. As I was saying earlier, now in black and white. Now in black and white. It's, and it's like 700 bucks. Yeah, $729. $729 battery lasts for 60 hours, I think you said.

With YouTube playing on wifi with no backlight. So yeah, if you put the backlight, it's a little bit less, but yeah. You know, that's the thing. That's because we're not competing. We're not competing. The light is being provided by the environment, right? Like it's not like we've done anything brilliant.

That's what's interesting about this project, is we just chose things based off a different value set. We said health matters. We say, you know, something that may be less sex appeal, but actually helps you get the job done better, does. And this is what emerged out of it. If Apple put enough money and time, they could have come up with this too.

It's just they don't share the value set, maybe we share. And that's why I think podcasts like this are huge. But big companies like that, they know about that stuff. I mean, cause like you can grayscale your phone. There's also, you can, what night shift or whatever, right? There's different things you can do with the phone. So they know about these things. It's kind of interesting.

I don't really believe that there's settings for your TVs. I don't know. They're really bad. Like I have to try to like desaturate it. And then I still put like filters over the act, like physical filters over the screen and I'll turn the brightness like way, way down,

but there's no way to actually like convert it over to like night shift mode. I think there is some awareness around this and what were those stats that you were sharing with us about people like losing their eyesight and stuff. Oh yeah. And China and one generation myopia, like myopia, like people having to wear glasses, went from like 15% to like 85 or 90% in one generation. Same thing in Korea and Taiwan as well, in Hong Kong. What do you think the root cause is? Being indoors more?

What else? Yeah, so people were like, what the heck? How is this possible? So there's a lot of theories. The leading one is because they moved to screens. And at a younger age, they have to spend more time indoors studying on screens because one of the first things you have to learn in school is the alphabet

and their alphabet is gigantic. So compared to here where you can spend more time in recess and outside and things like that, they're stuck indoors. Happening less too. And so, yeah. And so that's kind of crazy to think in one generation. Jesus. So, you know, the cool thing I think about is when,

first off, this type of thing, I guess, becomes more mainstream, when you're able to get stuff like this in the hands of kids, because kids, you know, you have those, they call them tablet parents. And some people diss that, but at the same time, it's like, I don't know what it's like to be a parent, but when I see what some of my parents,

like the parents that I know go through with some of their kids, I'm like, shit, I get it. I get it. So what if you could put something in their kid's hand that isn't as stimulating, right? What have you noticed if you've seen kids use this? Is there anything? Yeah, well, that's been the most gratifying part of this experience is

In many ways I was inspired by a Steve Jobs quote to make this like computers should be bicycles for the mind Mm-hmm. It's a longer story But basically it should help us be the best versions of ourselves And I was like computers at least for myself and for a lot of my friends made me the worst version of myself Yeah, right So what's the possibility of making that computer that can help you write more poetry, figure out those cures to cancer, those things that humans can do that make us special.

In reality, it looks like one of the biggest use cases for this is I don't wanna feel bad that I'm giving my kid a tablet to get them to shut up. So it's Peppa the pig in black and white. It's Cocoa Melon in black and white. And that's what it is. It's like I've started to get them to shut up. So it's Peppa the pig in black and white. It's cocoa melon in black and white. And that's what it is. It's like, I've started to empathize with the parent. It's hard.

And so they just feel a lot of guilt when they're giving the kid an iPad. So we like to joke this is a guilt-free iPad for a lot of parents. Yeah, a lot of kids will go absolutely bonkers, when you pull the thing away that they're watching or that they're doing. And I would imagine that maybe with technology like this,

it might just be a little less. They still might be pissed because they were watching or doing the thing that they wanted to do. I was talking to a good friend last night about parenting and how tricky it can be. Do you force your kid to do some stuff? I think you kind of have to.

I think as a parent, I think you do have to sort of force your kid, hey, it's time to take out the garbage. Hey, I think you kind of have to. I think as a parent, I think you do have to sort of force your kid, hey, it's time to take out the garbage. Hey, I told you twice, like, hey, can you, you know, and then you beat the shit out of them, of course. No, I'm just kidding. But you do have to be forceful and you do have to expose them to a lot of different things.

And sometimes you might have to encourage or even like push them into like a sport. That's some of my belief. I know that we can kind of sit here and be like, oh, you should just lead by example. And sometimes they really need to be like pushed or shoved and every kid is a little different. Oh, I buy that.

Some kids might need a little bit more of a push than another. Obviously, if your kid really hates participating in baseball or something like that, then you can communicate with them and try to meet them in the middle somewhere. But I think if left to their own decisions, they're gonna probably be on a tablet

and they're probably gonna be like eating candy or eating potato chips or doing some hood rat shit that they shouldn't be doing. And so you have to kind of kick them in the ass and force them to do some shit that they might not want. Absolutely. I was very, very... How do you follow that?

That's what we call it in my family. Let me tell you how my mom kicked my ass, Mark. Let me back up. I hated that she made me do piano lessons. I hated it, absolutely hated it. And now in retrospect, I'm like, oh, I'm glad she did. Like, I appreciate music, I love music. I'm learning instruments.

You kind of wish you played more, right? Yeah, and so to your point, it's kind of trickier than it seems. And God bless all the parents out there willing to take abuse from their kids saying, I hate you, mom, I hate you, mom. And they're still doing it. And you could argue in some ways that's what this is, right?

It's like, here, here's something that does less. And I think what's been cool is we had a famous author in Austin, his kids got one of these as an early user. And he's like, dude, it works. He's like, when they're losing their shit, I can give it to them and then they calm down, but they're not on it for the next six hours. They get bored of it after an hour and a half or two,

and they go back to playing outside, but there's no more tantrum. And they're like, he's like, that's it. Is the fact they get bored of it, that's what makes it so special, because it also still stops the tantrum. And that's when it super landed for me. Oh, it's more interesting than doing sudoku

on a piece of paper or whatever, but it's less boring than like, you know, full roadblocks on a piece of paper or whatever, but it's less boring than full roadblocks on a desktop or something. And that feels like the magic spot of what really technology should be, which is it's a more interesting piece of paper, but it's not necessarily crack. I was raised with my kids,

we had a lot of conversations about stuff like this. Hey, what do you think's reasonable? And I don't care how old they are. I think you start asking these questions when they're super young, conversations about stuff like this. Hey, like what do you think's reasonable? And I don't care how old they are. I think you start asking these questions when they're super young and then you start to get them to think and then they start to respond with more adult conversation.

But is it okay for you to have this for six hours straight? Is it okay for you to have this for four hours? Let's agree on some sort of number. How many hours a day could you have this phone or have this technology? And then you start to try to figure out what's gonna work best for them in accordance to what's working best

for like your lifestyle and stuff like that. But it's difficult to navigate. Yeah. It can be super difficult. I didn't expect so much of my time now to be spent talking to parents and moms. That's probably gonna be our biggest demographic. So it's given me a lot of empathy.

If you're being real though, like as an adult with a full leaf, like a developed prefrontal cortex, this shit is still addictive as fuck. You know, I have an app on here that will block Instagram and TikTok and YouTube so that at least if I have the inkling to like, at least it stops me initially. So I have to be intentional, right? So I can personally say, still got the issue. So even though this is gonna be great for kids,

like this is one of those things that as an adult, you can still get all your computing done. You can still send the messages, you can still send the emails, you can still watch the videos you need to watch, right? But at least it doesn't give you that drive or there's a lesser drive to fucking use this so much. You know, that's amazing about that.

Somebody joked to me, they're like, no one ever advertises a lawnmower as distraction free. Like no one advertises a toaster as distraction free. Cause it just does one job and does it well, right? Like the sin and the amazingness of a computer is it does a million things and that's what makes it distracting. And so in many ways, the hope of something like this

is it doesn't need to be advertised as distraction free. You just know it. Okay, when I need to do email, when I need to write a note, when I need to read something, I just pick this up. That's it. And there isn't even a possibility in your head that it could do more. It's really more an appliance than a computer.

And so that's what we're trying to do is think of an iPod Touch kind of back in the day. But question, for those apps, like social media stuff, you can still access those apps from this device, yes? The answer is yes and no. So we actually have two modes we're building into the operating system. So one is kale mode and one's cocaine mode.

I'm not actually kidding. This is literally what we're gonna call it. I love it. And so in kale mode, it's totally locked down. So you can read, write, do math. It's got, it's just got this stuff that's like good for you, right? Whatever. And if you're like, fuck you and your paternalism, we're like, great, use cocaine mode. You can do whatever you want. And because of what I was saying earlier, the actual screen changes its addictive properties. Even in cocaine mode, it is so hard to get addicted or distracted or do anything. And the operating system itself has different defaults. So no notifications by default.

When you turn it on, you don't go back to the last thing you were doing, you go back to just the home. Otherwise you get hijacked. We put buttons on it. Everybody's getting rid of buttons in technology. I think buttons are important because it allows you to interact with the device physically rather than mentally. So you want to go to your last book, we have a quick action button, click on it twice, it takes you back to the last book. You want to write a new note, click the power button twice, it'll take you to a new note. So if you have it beside your bedside, you wake up at 3 a.m., you want to write your dream down, you don't need to worry about clicking it on

and seeing that Aunt Teresa sent you a WhatsApp, right? You just double click it and you're immediately in your note. It's still got one more step than a moleskin, but it's the closest we can get. So once again, it's like a humility. Like the best software is the least software you have to deal with. What's your thoughts on like the banning of TikTok?

Got some insight or some thoughts on stuff like that? I just think Mark Zuckerberg definitely has some good lobbyists. And I think it's, TikTok's like the exact opposite of this in many ways, right? It is like you take YouTube and you make it even more crack cocaine. It's just completely a drip for you.

Like the fact that it's literally a slot machine, you don't even navigate, you just go like this the entire way. So I would say it's an emblematic culprit. At the same time, I have so many friends where one of the best educational platforms for them is TikTok, where they learn their ADHD and they're learning in non-medication ways, no judgment around medication of how to treat themselves

because they found the right channels this way and the videos are small enough they'll actually pay attention to it. So I think it's like, once again, a give and take between like, you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. And TikTok's maybe being singled out, right? I mean, all these companies do very similar things, right?

Yeah, people keep blaming these tech people. I think they don't need to be blamed that their stuff is addicting. They need to be blamed that they're cowardly to shareholders because that's stuff is addicting. They need to be blamed that they're cowardly to shareholders because that's what's driving this. They're just doing their homework and their boss is shareholders, right?

Like at the end of the day, if they didn't do it, somebody else was going to come. I mean, TikTok is just America's funniest home videos made even more addicting, right? Like it's that same energy. It's just now you can do it when you're on the toilet, right? So I don't think these things are inherently bad. How do we make more stuff for the toilet?

That's what these guys are sitting around saying now, right? That's their OKR. And so I don't think these things are inherently bad. It's just, they're everywhere. They're always accessible. And to me, it's like, if you have chocolate chip cookies and they're in the highest cupboard in your house and you gotta take a chair out and get to it,

like it's fine having chocolate chip cookies, when it's hard is when it's right there in the middle of your countertop. And imagine you're like an alcoholic, and you're sitting there and you're taking a shit, and a bottle of Jack Daniels just shows up right there. You're in the park walking with your kid. You look at the park bench, oh my God, tequila.

That's technology. It's like an alcoholic and everywhere you go, it's like the sip is one foot away. And there's no problem with it, but just put it on the highest cupboard in one place. And I think that's what we're trying to say, is when you wanna watch Netflix, have a particular place that you can go do that.

When you wanna do work, have a particular place that you can sit and do your work. Don't shit where you eat. Well said. Yeah. Being able to handle the stresses of your day, the stress of exercise, and being able to stick to your nutrition plan takes good rest

and good quality sleep the night before. And if your mouth is opening during sleep or if you're snoring, well, your sleep quality is compromised. That's why we've partnered with the best mouth tape in the game, Hostage Tape. If you have a beard, it's going to stay on. If you have a CPAP, it's going to stay on. This tape is not going to fall off your mouth like most other tapes do when you're asleep. And to enhance the

way you breathe through your nose, they also have no strips. Head over to hostagetape.com slash power project where you can get a three month supply of hostage tape for only 65 cents a night. On top of that, you're gonna receive a free pack of nail strips as well as a bedside tin. Again, that's at hostagetape.com slash power project. Links in the description as well as the podcast show notes. So I was just looking at prices. So for my Kindle Scribe, which looks very similar,

is about $340. So just because they look a lot alike, they have the E Ink screen, and for those that are just not in the know, what makes this device different than a Kindle Scribe? Because again, they look very similar. It appears like they do similar things, but again, I understand they're way different,

but I would love to hear you explain. Sure. And does that include the price of the stylus? I think they- I believe, let me double check. I think they put it outside so they can make their price look lower. So the basic pen, I have the premium pen,

which costs a little bit more, because I'm fancy. You can think of the Kindle Scribe or the Remarkable Tablet or something like that as a replacement for a legal pad. And you can read Kindle books on it as well. So it's fine for Harry Potter, and it's fine for taking notes. But the fact of the matter is you can't do Google Docs on it. You can't do email on it.

You can't watch video. Everything you do on a computer, whether for work you're doing Excel or for school, you're writing into Google Classroom, you can't do any of that. So you can't really replace an iPad. You can't really replace a MacBook. You can't replace a PC. So what we've done is make a full computer. You can do all the apps, you

can have a browser, you get all that capability, you can watch video, you can type, you can scroll. And so you're able to actually replace a lot more of your computing environment with this. A Kindle scribe is always just going to be a small portion of your overall digital diet. The hope here is this can be a lot larger of a portion instead of five or 10%. It can be maybe 70, maybe 80, maybe 100. Yeah. And when the Kindle Scribe was announced, I was so fired up because I'm like, oh my gosh, it's got a stylist.

I can write on books. I can do all these really cool things. Cause like when I read a book, my mind goes all over the place. And I like to be able to write stuff on like, whether it be like a notepad or like physically in the book itself, like a physical book. And I always wanted to do that with a, you know, an e-reader. And then when this came out, it was like, Oh my gosh, I can finally do it. Just kidding.

Their software doesn't allow you to do it. You have like a couple of select books where you can actually write like on the margins, but it like doesn't really work with this this tablet, or sorry, this computer, can you do something like that? Yeah, exactly. That's where it's been six years to get here, and a lot of that has just been nerding out about getting some of these deep fundamentals.

So we think we built what is one of the world's best PDF renderers. And what that means is you can zoom fast, you can scroll fast, you can select fast. So it's not just the hardware, the software also can match it. And then you can write directly on the books. And I should show you this afterwards, but actually the ink will resize depending on the zoom.

So you can zoom in, let's say you ran out of space in the margins, you could zoom in and you can write and your ink will change to fit that. And you can zoom in more, you can zoom in so much, you can write inside the space inside an O. You can leave it no. Not to say that's practical,

but it's like you're really making paper magical. They have nowhere close, whether hardware or software to do that. You could leave little secrets inside PDFs from people. I actually, the way I onboard kids onto this is I say, hey, pick the third A and write something to your dad and give it to your dad and say, dad, three A, three A, three A, say how long it takes.

And then you know, you hint, hint, and then, yeah, so it's a nice little moment. That's so cool. So yeah, like since I've been, you know, diving into this E Ink world, not to be super dramatic, but I've been waiting for this computer for like two decades. Oh wow. Because like I've been, that's all I've been looking for,

but it doesn't exist till right now. Wow. But like all this stuff, like the PDF stuff, like the, I'll say the Kindle community gets so frustrated because it's like, here's this really, really cool screen, a really cool pen and what seems like the easiest steps to do, but yet it's, I guess maybe the monopoly, whatever it may be, it's unaccessible.

Like you just can't do the simplest things like you can on like a paper tablet. So the fact that this is going to solve a lot of these issues is like, I cannot wait to get my hands on my very own, even though I don't really do that sort of stuff. But like I said, with like the book notes and that sort of thing,

along with being able to scroll like Twitter or something, if I am going to sit there and read like outside of a book. Like I just think you guys have built something truly phenomenal that a lot of people are going to really appreciate. I so appreciate you sharing that because also on paper that the Kindle scribe or the remarkable or the Onyx books, they look great. It's only in reality you're like, what the heck?

And so in many ways, this was just me trying to respond to my what the heck moment. I was one of the first users of the remarkable Kindle scribe as well and so on. And so yeah, it's only really when you're a user of these, you're shocked by how limited they are. And it's death by a thousand paper cuts. And so we've just sat here and tried to improve that.

And then, so along with that, I wanted to e Ink my phone. So I'll turn it into grayscale from time to time, but like it just kind of doesn't really count. We were talking earlier. So like what E Ink screen phones have you tried? And like, what's the problem with some of those? Oh, I've tried all of them. My favorites are probably the Yota phone and the Hisense. Hisense has a bunch. I've tried the color ones, I've tried the black and white ones. I've tried one which has a normal screen on one side

and an E Ink screen on the other side. The problem with all of them is they're just so slow. Like you struggle to order an Uber, you struggle to use Google Maps, you can't even type or text properly. It's just distracting. It hurts your eyes because the contrast is lowered by all the artifacting.

So once again, on paper, great idea. In practice, it sucks. And so there's something called the light phone also that a lot of my friends bought on wanting a minimalist phone. And it's just too dumb. It is possible to be too dumb. And so we're just trying to get that balance. And with that one, don't you have to carry your own phone to like, yeah, you got to be

tethered to it, right? And that's why we started with the tablet is actually, I wanted a phone even more badly than a tablet because that was the primary source of addiction. It's just a lot harder to do a phone. You don't need Google Maps or Uber on this. You don't need to have a cellular connection. You don't need to have a data plan. There's a lot of complexity.

You don't need iMessage, but we're hoping to solve a bunch of that. So we're working at it. And will this one come with the pin as well? Yeah, it'll come with the pin. Okay. You know, just so people are aware, you know, blue light during the day, probably not super problematic, especially when we're talking about being outside and getting blue light,

because there's blue light that happens pretty much all day long. And so some people get confused. They're like, the sun produces blue light, but mainly the blue light that happens pretty much all day long. And so some people get confused, they're like, the sun produces blue light, but mainly the blue light that we're getting when we're indoors is, my understanding, it's basically like one spectrum of light. It's not coming with multiple. And even if it was more than one spectrum of light,

it's certainly not the array of spectrum that we get from the sun. I think humans are designed to be addicted to light and to dark even. But I think humans are designed to be addicted to that. And I think that we've gotten taken advantage of, people kind of figured this out. They kind of understood this for a long time.

I mean, I can think back to my parents saying like, don't stand so close to the TV, don't get so close to the TV, don't get so close to the TV, because of like, the light flashing before your eyes. I've heard of some people with like strobe lights and really powerful lights, some people can have like seizures from these things. So as you were mentioning,

you feel that maybe you're a little bit more sensitive. I think Andrew is kind of in the same realm. And I think that some people are probably like, they probably don't really believe in a lot of this stuff because maybe they never had to research it or look into it because maybe they never had any negative side effects. And that's great. And hopefully people can go on forever and not have any issues with their eyes or not be addicted to their phones and their tablets and so on.

But I think if we're all being honest, you know, we've all gotten pretty addicted to stuff. I can admit I'm addicted to social media and my phone, the whole thing. I'm like overly connected to it. And I think really just about anybody that's not going to come forward and admit that, I think they're lying. That's what Encima said. It's like, you don't realize how you're affected until you try these things, and then you're like, whoa.

And I think it's kind of heartbreaking to realize that we're all so adaptive, we're all carrying around all this sludge, all this like, not in our best state, and we're just trudging through it. And it's only when you get a little bit healthier, when you get a little bit better, you're like, holy crap, I can't believe I lived like that my entire life.

I feel so much better. If you're an anxious person, you're finally not anxious. You're like, what, this is what it means? Or if you're always tired and you finally eat well and sleep well. So yeah, I feel like there needs to be enough desperation or faith to try it. And then I think the proof's in the pudding.

Do you guys think that, so kind of like, I think Mark, it's called the fat threshold in America. Like we can be fatter longer without getting like diabetes and that sort of thing. Yeah, USA. Do that Babe Ruth accent. Do that Babe Ruth accent. You see? Do you guys think that like we could potentially evolve to where artificial blue light won't impact us the way it does right now? I don't think so.

I think the reason is, is because I think the signal from the sun is so stable and so invariant we're in, we're heavily dependent on it. So if you think about environmental stuff, food, toxins, water, humidity, temperature, it's all varied and it's kind of all over the place. So you're more kind of adaptive and buffered to it. But if you think in evolutionary history, other than a solar eclipse,

or if Krakatoa blew up and the entire earth is covered in clouds, the sun always came up. The sun always came up. And so if you think about what's stable in your environment, if you're an animal or whatever organism, the humidity is gonna change, the temperature is gonna change, the amount of oxygen versus CO2 is gonna change.

But the sun coming up and the spectrum of the sun at each hour in the day is relatively gonna be stable. The sun changes over time, but within bands. And so I think what that means is physiology has like leaned hard. It's not standing this way. It's leaning on that. And so when you mess with light, you mess with everything else. And so I don't think it's as simple as just avoid blue light at night.

That does help when it comes to the sleep and melatonin and so on. But actually I think there's lots of good evidence that blue light is also because it's a 1pm type thing, it's stimulating. It gets your insulin and glucogen response to be in a certain way. So actually a lot of people are starting to suspect that over stimulation to blue light

that is not balanced by full spectrum during the day for long periods of time is actually what's leading to a lot of potential type two diabetes or the insulin response that we have. There's also these interesting theories, these are still very early, that blue light changes the concentration of deuterium in your water and that actually can affect your mitochondria. It actually changes the efficiency in which they're able to synthesize ATP. And so tiredness. Negatively impacting your body's own ability

to produce water, which might make your tendons, ligaments, tissues feel drier, you might feel more stiff. It doesn't necessarily negatively impact your ability to produce water. It changes the type of water. There's a certain type of water that's H2O2 called deuterium, and it's literally heavier. And so when you look inside of a mitochondria

and it's electron transport chains, you're actually mechanically affecting the efficiency of those processes. And your diet can promote you to produce healthier water and so on as well, right? Yeah, and so I think we're just learning the large span of impacts that blue light has. One aspect of the stimulating aspect

is it also affects your dopamine, dopaminergic cycle. And so one of the theories is when you're overstimulated by blue light all the time, you're basically in an amped up state that your actual baseline then has to recover by going lower. And so that's one of the reasons, like you're saying, we're kind of addicted or a hamster coming back to the drip faucet is because we're getting jacked up on these things. And then when they're taken away, we're feeling that huge drop. And so there's a theory that our baseline dopamine levels are down-regulated. We're also seeing, we're seeing a lot of extremes, right?

Like, you know, for me, I've been following like lifting stuff for years. So you see people lift these extraordinary weights. People that are into other sports are seeing these people do these extraordinary things. But we're also seeing like the other side of that, people that are like other sports are seeing these people do these extraordinary things. But we're also seeing like the other side of that, people that are like, that have mental health issues or diseases or things that they really had a hard time with. So we're just seeing like this, you know, really high level. And then we're seeing people that are really struggling.

And we, like, as you said, we're walking around with like this sludge. That's a really good way to put it. It's like you're walking around every day with like an extra 50 pound backpack on that's kind of tiring you out every day, making you feel exhausted when maybe even haven't done a whole lot, but you absorbed. I remember being a personal trainer and I think you were a personal trainer at some point, right? Sometimes you would go through, you know, training five or six people

and they just really dumped a lot of their things on you for the day. And you got to like the fourth or fifth one, you're like, did we do this exercise already? I forget where I'm at in the workout with this person. But I would go home from that, and I would be so exhausted. And it wasn't from the work I was doing,

it was from the inputs. And so I think we have to be really conscious of the inputs that we're getting every day. Wow. Got to protect yourself against it. I'm curious, when it comes to this device, for people that, let's say that they do want to do more potential computing, like use a keyboard and a lot of that,

are there external keyboards attached with this? Yeah, we have USB OTG, so you can connect an external keyboard. You can also connect to it by Bluetooth. One of my favorite use cases is take this out to the park. I have with me, I can show you, but I have a little keyboard. And that has a little stand built in.

And I just use this like a typewriter. And that's the perfect thing about this too, because like these guys know I love to work outside. So whenever I work here, I literally just put a mat outside and I'm working in the sun for as long as I possibly can. I hate, I fucking hate working indoors. But one of those annoying things is when you do work here, I literally just put a mat outside and I'm working in the sun for as long as I possibly can. I hate, I fucking hate working indoors. But one of those annoying things is when you do work outside, there's a glare on your computer screen

and you always have to fucking shift it out. It's annoying. But the cool thing is when Mark was using this, you guys are showing, I was like 10, 12 feet away, Mark had the screen up, I was like, I can see that video. Right, so like right up to it, you can see it perfectly if you're in the sun.

So this is, again, it works with your health, it works with everything you're trying to do. It's perfect in that sense. Yeah, great job. This launches like this week, right? Thursday, yeah. Holy shit, I guess this episode probably take two weeks or so, maybe.

Yeah, May 23rd. To come out. But yeah, congratulations. That must have been, must have been a lot of hard work. And, you know, I'm excited and hopeful that it does so well that you're able to make phones and laptops and computers and the whole thing, because I think this is, I think this is a big problem. And I think that over time, I think we're gonna continue to see more things of this same vein. I think we're gonna see people trying to solve

their light environments. I think offices, gyms, homes, I think that a lot of things are gonna change over the next couple of years. Cause a lot of people are researching this, a lot of people are paying attention to it the next couple of years, because a lot of people are researching this. A lot of people are paying attention to it. It does seem that it actually is helpful to eliminate a lot of the blue light that we're dealing with,

or at least try to eliminate some of it. That's going to be a big thing for a lot of people to get used to, but I think that time is coming. And to me, it always comes back to the proofs in the pudding. Go camping. See how well you sleep. See what time you sleep. When there's a lot of complexity and a lot of change,

like go back to what's invariant and nature is invariant. You know, like we evolved to it. So my sleep score is normally like in the 60s. I went to Iceland, was kind of in the middle of nowhere. And it was like 82. The next day it was like 81. There you go. It's like, holy crap.

And what's funny about this is like tech people know this. Like I've met so many tech billionaires now that just like live in a homestead in the middle of nowhere. Right? And it's like, Steve Jobs didn't allow his kids to have iPhones or iPads until they were 16. And he's selling it to your kids.

Like look at the actions of the people who know this stuff the best, right? Like, they're telling you everything you need to know. So, yeah. It's the time we wake up. Do you think you'll be able to produce TVs with the same technology? Oh yeah, what's cool?

Like, we got so lucky. You know, you look at other companies out there, they've needed over $100 million, $200 million to do what we've done on a fraction of that. And one of the reasons we got lucky is we can use amortized LCD fabrication equipment. And so when iPhones and things like that went from LCD to OLED, that equipment lost like 100 million units of demand. And so they have all this LCD fab equipment that's being decimated by switching to OLED. They're like, what do we do with?

And so we can utilize that and build our technology on that and make whiteboards, make TVs, make drafting tables, make watches. And so yeah, it's pretty cool. Dude, I want monitors. I want TVs. I want all of that. Like if I can go home and my son's watching, you know, an E Ink TV, dude, that's like ultimate dream come true right there. Peppa the pig on an E Ink TV. Dude, that's like ultimate dream come true right there. Peppa the pig on an E Ink TV. Well, not Peppa the pig, that one's a little iffy.

Yeah, it's cocoa melon for sure though. Where can people find out more about you and your company and where can they order these? You can go to daylightcomputer.com to order these. On May 23rd, we're going live. And you can follow us on our Twitter, Instagram at Daylight Co. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

I'm super happy that you're dynamic and fun and funny. I had no idea, you know, a guy that makes a computer, you never know, right? It's the only way to survive doing this. I quit like five or six times. I struggled. It was a tough, tough thing. So you stopped being so attached.

Glad you didn't give up. Strength is never weakness, weakness never strength. Catch you guys later.