Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast - Ep 398 - The Enantiodromia of Vietnam (feat. Colin Quinn)

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

  Support the D.A.W.G.Z. @ patreon.com/MSsecretpod Buy Merch @ mssecretpodcast.com/merch Yooo. History cast. THE Colin Quinn joins the D.A.W.G.Z. to discuss the Vietnam War. They discuss other things as well. Please enjoy. God bless. Support the show and get up to 34% off some sweet new metal art with the code DRENCHED at https://displate.com/mssp?art=6247403451297 Support the show and get 3 months free by visiting https://ExpressVPN.com/Drenched  

All right. Yes. This is it. We're on another history podcast. This time we've got the Colin Quinn. Yes. And today's topic is Vietnam. Vietnam. What a time. Yeah. What a crazy time. I mean, in some ways, I feel like it's the most important. It changed everything. Plus it was at that time, you know, but it changed. I always feel like these things have like bigger, like what comes first? Vietnam makes people. It wasn't a revolution where everybody's like, we're fighting against the system or is Vietnam the thing that triggers it off? And it's to what it have happened without Vietnam with the 60s have happened without Vietnam is Vietnam. As you know, I'm breaking about my extensive knowledge started for America in the 40s. Yeah. And yeah. And it was because we were

helping France because we owed France from the Revolutionary War. We Yeah. I was the thing I've looked at it, dude, France dragged us into this to the point. Oh, France was France owned Vietnam. It was a colony. Japan took it when they went. They got a little wild. Yeah. And then the United States liberated it. Yeah. And that was the thing. Ho Chi Minh, the guy who ended up being the leader of the Viet Cong was like, I love America. That's right. He was right. He was writing letters to Truman saying like, I love you. Thank you. They were like Americans are the only free people on earth. Yes. Incredible people. The leader of them. Yeah. Loved America. Yeah. And then he started this is the craziest part. So France goes back in after the war. And it's like, we're taking it back.

And America was like, Don't do that. Yeah. And we were kind of siding with Ho Chi Minh and the Vietnamese. And then France was like, this is the beginning of the Cold War. So France is like, Hey, if you guys don't support us, maybe we'll start listening to fucking Russia. And then America was like, All right, we'll we'll fucking help you out. Yeah. Anyway, that is interesting. And by the way, speaking of Ho Chi Minh, writing letters to Truman, all those letters were redacted and like to like 1970 something. And half of them Truman never got because the Secret Service was like, wow, he doesn't need to see these. Yeah. Yeah, making those decisions. So in those days, everybody made, but that's the whole thing about Vietnam too. Everybody's making their own decisions,

determining. So the the when you have power, you know, when you disperse power in that way, everybody goes, I'll take this part. And they're all just like, And yeah, and because of the Cold War, the Secret Service and the CIA were like, this is more important, like the CIA versus the KGB and Russia and the Soviet Union, that became the two superpowers. Yeah. And they were doing stuff like undermining the fucking president to be like the war against Russia is more. I mean, it was, it's it's I don't like Vietnam because of how frustrating and stupid it is. Well, but first of all, the CIA, when you think about it, their whole thing was the Cold War first. So all the drug dealing that happened in the 70s and 80s was again, through from every cartel, the CIA, when

they like, okay, CIA, they would stop the DEA from doing their job all the time, because they're like, the Cold War, these anti communist, but they're the heads of the cartels, but they're anti communist. And that was their priority. So they, they made that choice. And I'm sure the president didn't want to make the choice, whoever was doing all those times. But that was the choice they always made. Damn, then they didn't just say no, like 10 years later, like, come on, guys, don't do drugs. Just say no. They were still telling the DEA back off this guy back off that guy. So funny. Because they were saying, look, we think communism is a greater threat still in the late 80s. It's crazy. They were right. We got a tiny taste of it here. And it's pretty annoying.

Yeah, especially when the communists are rich and like 30 years old. Yeah. And getting DUI. You see Nancy Pelosi's up. Caught at 82 and caught a DUI. Anyway, well, I think somebody 82 catching DUI. I admire that. I do too. Yeah. I mean, I should be free. I should be like, let you go on that. All right. We're off topic. So yeah. Yeah. Vietnam, the French, the French are fucking dickheads. Brutal. They were dickheads. So they dragged us in. They were absolutely dragged us in the letter. They dragged us in, but we wanted to I mean, we could have left. We could have left. We could have left. I mean, if you I read this book, a bright shining light just happened to be reading it.

By the way, when you read a book, it was especially a Kindle. Try to find out how many pages it is. This book's 800 pages. So I was reading like, Oh, this is a bright shining light doesn't sound like a long book. Yeah. It's the history of everything. But but France, they left. We helped them. So there was one would turn Ho Chi Minh, one of the things that turned them is we decided we supplied France with all these all the mortars and everything where they destroyed a lot of it in Vietnam. And that turned yeah, then it gets America too. Oh, yeah. It was there was a battle. I forget the name of it. So I was just watching Ken Burns on it. What is it? Yes. So the French were kind of fucking up the

Vietnamese. I mean, they had it was the same as us first and the superior firepower. But again, just like time and time again, the Vietnamese were very good at guerrilla warfare because we trained them during World War Two. Oh, yeah. Yeah, a little fucking, you know, Mujahideen type shit. Yeah. And they were about to come to talks France and Vietnam. They're about to come to the table before they went to have talks. They both tried to get one more offensive in so they had leverage when they went to talks. Nice. So France sets up at where it's again, they just put themselves at the bottom of this valley. And they're like, we're just going to build an airfield here. We're going to fuck them up.

One of the French generals was like, I have too many guns, we're going to fuck these dudes up. Damn, the Vietnamese surrounded them in this valley and just destroyed them. The French guy, the general that led that killed himself, honorably, because he was like, we're going to wipe the floor with these guys. Why are they going to Valley? Isn't that a bad, I'm not a military tactician, but is that not the good idea? It was a bad idea. Well, it's funny to say that because even K. San, the famous 14 years later, America did the same thing, set themselves up in a, in was surrounded by all the mountains. So created a valley and set up an air strip, a landing strip in the valley and got

killed because it's really amazing. I mean, the other thing on Vietnam is you realize how, like, how, you know, you always think when you're young, at least like the people in charge, they spend all their time doing this, they know what they're doing. But there were so many egos involved that the few people were like, this is not working. We're just, there was just like, stop. You don't know what you're saying. Just because of ego. People think all they wanted was they wanted money. They would still get the money. This was about like something else, power struggle, that where you pay the price, or the troops pay the price. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, if you're just some dude sitting in a village and some guy had an argument,

you're just getting blown up and you're like, what the fuck is this about? And the other thing that happened was that some guy couldn't come to grips with it. He was like, no, fuck it, I'm right. In the early 60s, that this Hamlet program, where they would bring, they said, we're going to bring all these weapons to each Hamlet, all these little Hamlets, because it was kind of half and half like North Korea. And they put all these weapons to all these Hamlets and said, look, you're in charge of the weapons. It was all American made modern stuff. And of course, the Viet Cong who kind of controlled more or less, they had the hearts of the people, they took all the weapons. So we supplied the Viet Cong, the only weapons in the early 60s,

and it kept them going. It genuinely makes me, like all my information is from the Ken Burns documentary. Right. And I watch it. And every time I'm watching it, I buy episode two, I'm like, what the fuck is going like it's, yeah, it doesn't make sense. Well, I don't know if this was in the Ken Burns documentary. But did you see the guy? It is, I think it is, I saw the Ken Burns is Beckwith with the guy in the advisor, Colonel Beckwith. Oh, yeah. Charging Charlie Beckwith. And he goes, they interview him and go, what do you think of the Viet Cong? He goes, find a soldier I've ever seen. This is in 1965.

He goes, what? The Viet Cong? He goes, best soldier I wish I had 200 of them under my command. And right away, like, oh, we shouldn't have, yeah, something was up then. Well, they also, they'd been fighting for 30 years. These dudes have been fighting since, like, World War II. They didn't stop fighting. Really? From World War II until the end of Vietnam, they were fighting constantly. And their home territory. Yeah.

And then so small, they had to be crafting all the tunnels, all the trails. They know everything. Oh, fuck, yeah. You know, was that the first American war where like the American troops were like, what the fuck's going, what's the point of this? Yeah. The first time. I'm sure they were a little bit like actually. Yeah, Korea, Korea, we did, we called the Scooter of Korea.

Yeah. MacArthur, everybody was like, don't do this. MacArthur's like, I love the people loved him. Yeah. The Korean people like this guy's are saying, and he just was like a king over there. Yeah. And then he just said, we're going to do it this way. I forget he landed on the coast. So he did something that was strategically a nightmare. And even his generals are like, don't do this. What are you doing?

And he goes, I know what I'm doing. And yeah, he had a fucking ego, dude. That stinks. He referred to himself from the third person. Did he? He's fucking nuts. Yeah. He was wild. MacArthur was wild.

That sucks. He might get a bad rap though. I kind of like him. Yeah. No, he was beloved. Yeah. Look, the people loved him because he, Japan loved him because after World War II, they were expecting because they were so horrendous during World War II. They expected him to really bear that. And he treated them like he said, you treat these people like human beings.

So Japanese people treated him like a god. So he felt like a god. That's tough to shake off. That would get me. Yeah. If I was getting like samurai glory, I'd be like, yeah, you know what? Yeah. I know. They're like presenting you swords and shit.

You get to wear one of those cool suits. If I get to wear one of those cool suits, I'm like, who do I? I think that's why God never even let me sell out like the beacon or something like that. He keeps me level of three to 400 seats on the road. And there's a reason for it. Oh, man. So the fact. Yeah.

What was it? So chronologically, the French direct. So we were like, so it's a French colony. Then there's World War II. Japan takes over. And and like always when Japan would invade, every all the Asian countries were like, nice. Finally, the fucking white colonists are gone.

We're going to get treated well and they immediately get starved to death and headed and fucked with sucks. So then when the Americans liberated Vietnam and the British, whoever, they were like, fuck you. We love America. Then France after World War II, who just got their fucking asshole. Yeah. Yeah.

They're like, actually, we want those colonies back. Nice. Yeah. And, you know, and Vietnam was like, no. This is ours now. Yeah. We're independent again. So then do they have to write a letter to Vietnam like, hey, buddy.

We're coming back. Bad news. Yeah. So yeah, sorry. We should start chronologically. Yeah. Let you all I watch is fucking Ken Burns. What?

Oh, what are we talking about? I don't know. Whatever you want. What you said. And then so then France, when they lost, you know what I mean? The Geneva talks Geneva, I think it was the first Geneva talk back then. Maybe not. But then that was the best one.

What's that? That was the best one. The first few. We're like, hey, I like Geneva. You know, and and then we went in. Eisenhower said, we're just going to arm them in the 50s. You know, we're just going to keep arming them because we don't want communism to spread down there.

And then because China, they were China taking over Vietnam, but Vietnam wasn't worried because they were half common. Like he said, by that point, the Ho Chi Minh was pro-America until that horrible event where the France destroyed like all these innocent villages. And then he turned on America because we supplied France. We in Fair enough. In Ben Ben Fu. Ben Ben Fu is when they got cocky.

America started supplying France because the only way French could get anything was airdrops because they were in a fucking valley getting destroyed. Like 8000 French dudes died. Jesus. Again, though, the Vietnamese lost like three to one casualties, but they were like, that's a victory. Yeah. They would get fucking wiped out constantly. Yeah.

That was was that one quote? Like all we have to do is just stay here and just die. Yeah. That was the one that one of the Vietnamese soldiers like all we have to do is just not become extinct and we win. It's great. Let's talk. Well, it's a problem with everything.

I mean, any time you go anywhere, the people that live there, they have no way to go. Yeah. So they're like, well, I'm not, you know, you're trapped. A trapped rat is going to fight to the death. Yeah. So then, yeah. It got to the point where in the they're talking about like the United States was literally funding 80 percent of the French versus Vietnamese war.

We were giving France 80 percent of the budget to win the war. Yeah. Yeah. France sucks. France did a bad job and then they left and then we decided it was such it's such a weird. I look at it so like psychologically like what I understand about the common the domino theory was part of it. But yeah, the psychological mindset you put yourself into that there was this guy Hawkins,

the general. He was the guy that ran it. And he was the one he is really responsible in many ways because we go back and tell the president and these guys it's going good. But even then the presidents, the ambassadors, they all went along. It just goes to show. I mean, I quote my mother all the time. I rest us all, but she used to always say people and I see this deeper and deeper and

everything. And this is a perfect example. People are attracted to bullshit. And if you offer them something that's quality or truthful and bullshit, they go for the bullshit every time. And I said to my mother at the time, I go, that's true. Most of the time she goes, I didn't say most of the time. I said every time.

And Vietnam is a perfect example because he was this guy. Van, this whole book breaks down lines about this guy. Van was in Vietnam. He was the early guy. And he's like, look, we're going to lose. Here's what's happening. The Hamlets, we're giving away our guns. The communists are taking it.

We're bombing villages. We were searching and destroying in 1963. Jesus. And he goes, we're losing everybody. We got to either win them over through like social revolution, the corruption of the South Vietnamese. They're taking everything. They have special forces that we train are destroying people.

This is terrible. We're losing and everybody, even the people that kind of knew better just were like, oh, and there's somebody that's like, no, we're just going to do this. And they're like, okay, let's do that. And it wasn't that it was easier. And they almost like will themselves into like, if you've ever been involved in like a TV or movie project, right?

And everyone's sitting there and you start out going, it's got to be this. And then slowly you start to go, oh, yeah, know that. And then somebody that wasn't involved in the first month walks in and goes, are you guys all gone crazy? And yes, you have. And no one wants to say it sucks. They're like, no, this is good. You start to believe it.

You get in this stupor. And that's, I think, happened in Vietnam with a military dog. You're on the set of Aquaman 6 and you're like, this still is good. This is the best picture. And you ever go to a screening of a movie? 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,680 And then I've gone to screenings of movies and you'll sit there and be like, that movie was really good.

If you're around the movie, you know the cast, you know, for the people. Yeah. It was good. It was bad. And then if I've been with people that go, are you crazy? That was shit. And then later I'm like, I was in a state of temporary insanity. I feel like that's what happened.

Oh, also the domino effect bothers me. It just annoys me. You don't like dominoes? Obviously I crush dominoes. No, you don't. I'll tell you, you don't like that slippery slope theory. That's basically the domino effect. Yeah.

I agree. I don't like it. When it comes to, well, why we were in Vietnam was they were like, well, if China has influence and the Soviet influence gets Vietnam, they're going to get all of Southeast Asia. Yeah. And it's like, so? Well, but at the time Russia had just taken all of Eastern Europe in the early 50s.

So in the grand scheme of things, considering how people felt at that time. I know they were scared of it, but it's, I mean, it wasn't like just some crazy. It was like, wait, they just took Czechoslovakia, Hungary, all these places. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're moving. Everybody in Europe is on the same page. Everybody's like post World War Two.

And they're like, oh, they're going to move. Because everybody knew even in World War Two, I remember a patent. Patent was like, we should go right into Russia. Yeah. Patent, by the way, an enemy of my family. Really? One of my uncles was 19 years old, World War Two, captured by the Germans, POW camp for a year.

German POW camp, 90 pounds, he's 19 years old, maybe he's 20 by now. He's in the hospital when they finally release him. Patent's visiting all the wounded troops. Then he gets to the POWs. They go, do you want to use all the POWs? I don't talk to cowards. Patent says, he goes, I don't talk to cowards. You're supposed to die with your unit.

I don't believe in POWs. So my uncle hated Patent. Especially when the movie Patent came out. It was like, hey, George, you're going to go see the Patent movie? And he's like, his name was George, too. And he's like, ah, baby. Damn, he wouldn't just snub the POWs. He literally goes, he's calling him cowards.

My uncle was like, 90 pounds, he's 19, 20 years old. I mean, one of the opening scenes in Patent is when he's slapping a guy in the hospital. Oh yeah. He's slapping him, calling him a fucking coward in the hospital. That's right. The PTSD guy. Jesus Christ.

All right. Yeah, that's, what a jerk. So. Yeah, where are we at? We're saying that you don't believe in the domino theory. I mean, I understand at the time, there's, you know, there's a hysteria. It's the same reason we fucking went into Iraq.

We were like, they're trying to kill us. They hate our freedom. Right. They do. And after fucking 15, 20 years, we're like, what the fuck was that? Right. There was no weapons. Yeah.

And then, yeah, once, I don't know. Well, I remember that George, remember the book I was talking about, the George Friedman book, where it was the next 100 years and they predicted all that stuff. Remember like two weeks before Russia invaded Ukraine? Yeah. He was saying that US is so far and ahead of everybody,

like economically, militarily, all they're trying to do is break up every alliance that forms. Yeah. So it's like, they don't, it's not about winning wars, it's about just destabilizing. But at this point, Russia was. They're gaining. They were, they were pretty fucking powerful.

They just got the nuke. Yeah. Now, all of a sudden, it was. By the way, to that end, I think it was Ellsberg, the guy with the Pentagon Papers, which was a big thing. But one of these guys was looking into the Russia thing in 1960. He was working with a nuclear, nuclear, and he said,

it was shocking because it was like Russian nuke. They were nowhere in the same ballpark with us. They had nothing compared to us. Really? And the military just had this, you know, narrative in their head, like Russia and us, and they would just child's play compared to us. At the time, you know, 58, 59, something like that. I think that was Ellsberg Pentagon Papers, but I'm not sure.

But some, something like that. But yeah, that was the other side of it. Damn, so even that was bullshit. But they did take all those countries. I mean, that was real. Yeah. But all those countries are fucking shit. Well, what they should be because of that.

Eastern Europe and Southeast Asia. But what they should then or what they should. Because of. Because people say the same thing about any colony, you know. Yeah, you're talking like Macedonia, Bulgaria. And how important. They were back in like. But this brings up the question about capitalism versus communism.

How important is free will? That's the question. So I don't know. I mean, I mean, that's what this whole thing is about, right? Yeah. Yeah. Or I think it's human organization schemes. Aren't there people at the top of communism who live like very well

and kind of rule still anyway? Yeah, that's what happens. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's just kind of like a, which one do you want peasants? So like you get to compete and have fun or it's like, or you share. And it's, you know. Right.

Yeah. But. I mean, obviously. I mean, I like capitalism. I like the idea of capitalism. The what? Capitalism. I mean, obviously we it's when it's unfettered.

It's not going to work. But the idea of capitalism, I like because it appeals to humans, nature's greedy side, which I feel like anytime you appeal to people based on something that's not so innocent, that's probably the healthy way to go. Because that's how people's nature is. It's not repressed. But if it goes to, obviously you can't have people just, you know, doing whatever they want. That's a problem.

Yeah. It's going into space. Was that? Yeah. I mean, the results are in so far. It's one in terms of like remaining a thing in the world. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. It's one. It's one. And yeah. It's winning. And communism has to try harder to keep people from giving their opinion. So that means it's not a good system. That's true.

I mean. Yeah, it doesn't work very well. Well, we're we're we're getting we're dancing with that a little bit. Yeah. Not being able to say stuff. So. Oh, absolutely. We'll see.

Maybe that'll go well. Who knows? Maybe the whole thing will just collapse and we'll all fucking die. Well, I just wish my eye would stop watering right now. Why? Why is your eye watering? I think I rubbed. I had hot sauces.

One here rubbed it right in my eye. But go on. Sorry. That's crazy. This is your Vietnam. This is man. I'm suffering right now. It's my Ho Chi Minh.

One time I was out with a girl years ago and I you have to say years ago whenever you're married. And but it was years ago. But I was I had some kind of a sauce. Here's what I realized by the way. I came in. So I had some it was like a pepper flake, a garlic and oil, but really hot sauce. So I go to pee. So you don't wash your hands before you pee.

You wash them after. Not anymore. So anyway, I pee. I wash my hands and I realize my dick is on fire. And I'm sitting there with her and I'm talking. I'm going, ha. And finally I had to just tell what was going on. I just walk back to the bathroom and just splash myself with the water.

But isn't it weird? You don't wash your hands before you hold your deck. Which is when you should. I would say yes. Definitely. I don't wash my hands after. Of course. But it's after it's more.

I just never do. Never. What's that now? I just never wash my hands. Never either way. No. I smell my hands. If I take a dump, I smell them.

If they smell, I'll wash them. If I, if I emerge clean. There, your eye is fucked up. Do my eyes fucked up? I don't know what's going on. I got something in it. You got Bieber, dude. I might have fucking.

What does he have? I don't know. You have a. He has Joe Hunter, Hunter Biden syndrome or something. No, what if you have that stupid other thing? What's it called? Whatever Bieber got? The fucking.

Oh, no. The eye thing. He had the Joker face. What's the eye thing? Pink eye. Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber. Is that what you were looking for?

Was Pink eye? Yes. This guy's got all the answers. Conjunctivitis. Conjunctivitis. You're looking for the medical term. All right. But I'll take.

Vietnam. I find now. What the fuck happened? What happened? Vietnam. Yes. Well, let's I'm saying it was. I said it was a.

It was a weird narcotic state where we, you know, it's been kind of a thing after World War Two. It's gone now. But we're like, no, we don't really. We don't really fail. Everybody wants to do. Everybody wants this because it works. So well, not just World War Two.

The Marshall Plan even worked because we're dealing with all these countries and suddenly they're coming back by 1960, 50s, Germany's even back. So we're like the benign guys that we control things. But everybody's kind of like getting a thing who wants to be on the team. And then, you know, we didn't realize it was a whole undercurrent.

So like the overcurrent is Europe. Then the undercurrent is the colonies. So all the colonies were bellies starting in the late 50s. Oh, yeah. From Africa to, you know, South America. And yeah. So there was that whole thing going on, you know. The vacate spots were popping off.

There was so much going on. Isn't it? All the sandals. All the sandals resorts where they had it up to here. Yeah. That makes sense. So it was kind of a weird, it was an interesting time. I can see communism appealing to that.

Yeah. You're down. Of course. You guys share the fucking deck. Pissing around the cheese. Absolutely. Well, like Cuba, look at Cuba, the old mafia thing. And it was such an interesting thing where it was like,

you know, they letting all these capitalist things that then they were like, no, and Castro came in. And you know what I mean? They even though Cuba failed, they didn't like the corruption level that was going on. It's the same thing with South Vietnam. Yeah. That was the thing.

We propped up some fucking dumbass. We propped up a dumbass. And we would never get rid of it. And then as soon as you saw that part, we were watching it. 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,720 We propped up this dude who just immediately started persecuting the Buddhists. Absolutely.

Started. Yep. His wife was a fucking monster who was like, good, I'm glad they're burning themselves. Yes. His wife was brother. Yeah, they were just morons. Yeah.

Yes. And we couldn't back off because we we were like, it's still better than communism. Yeah. Meanwhile, Ho Chi Minh was kind of fucking cool. Right. He liked us at the beginning. Yeah.

He wasn't totally into this thing. And then yeah. Yeah. Stuff. So he became yeah. Yeah. 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:08,560

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00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:08,560 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:08,560 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,840 You'd see the footage of Vietnam. So it was like such a boy. It wasn't like I was shocked because I wasn't from the generation before that. That was all I knew. I was seven, eight years old, nine years old.

But I remember seeing footage of Vietnam all the time on TV in the news. And it was just a constant thing. And I remember one time in class, we were talking about Vietnam. This is probably 71, maybe 70. And the teacher and the kids were going, yeah, Vietnam is bad.

And this girl in our class starts screaming and crying because her brother got killed in Vietnam. And so I knew probably three guys, older guys, they didn't hang out with me. But I knew three guys that were Marines in Vietnam that got wounded, that came home, and they all had those cliche Marine personalities. I mean, Vietnam vets, the Army jacket by themselves,

the big beards when they're home, heavy drinker, heavy smoker, prone to outbursts, but still good guys. Like there were guys, they weren't like, people hung out with them and talked to them. But they had that other side to them, partly from being in the war, partly from what they did, partly from what Vietnam did, and partly from the reaction when they came home.

It wasn't like you walk around, people weren't going, thank you for your service. Yeah, that's thanks. Yeah, so I knew a few guys. Yeah, that was the thing we were talking about. O'Connor brought this up. We were talking about last night. Imagine, so imagine today's fucking college student.

Imagine being a dude who got drafted and had to go live through fucking hell, and then you get home, and one of these fuckers throws a bag of piss at you and is like, baby killer. Fuck you. Right. Oh my god. That's when I would join the Ohio National Guard.

Head down to Kent State and say, fuck you guys. Yeah, true. That's it. Yeah, but it was interesting that they all did have that personality. Yeah. Even the guys, I knew guy across from my friend's brother was a Vietnam vet that didn't fight.

He was an airplane mechanic, and even he was screwed up. Fucked up from it. Yeah. My uncle was a Marine, and he never talks about it, ever. Like literally never talks about it. One night, he and I got drunk and he opened up about it. Really? And it was wild.

He saw a fucking chinook get hit and just spun, and dudes flew everywhere. I mean, it was, now my other uncle was in Vietnam, and he is a little more, I don't, he's a little more sociopath like psycho that's like, I killed a guy. Yeah. And I was like, how was that? And it was just me and him, and he goes, it's fucking incredible.

I was like, yo, yo. I told you, I knew a guy who was a sniper, and he was saying, he's like, you get addicted to the feeling of killing people. And he's like, go on. And he was like, he was a nice dude. He's like, I didn't have any, I didn't have ill will towards people, but he's like, I would watch people eat dinner, and as soon as they finish, right in the head.

He's like, I like the 12th one. He's like, you get like a God complex, and you're like, I'm ended. This is done. God damn. Yeah. You just watch people hang out. The guy in Vietnam, I've told you this before. It was like a 90 degree trail, and you couldn't see around the

corner. So he's walking one way. A Viet Cong was walking up the path. He said they literally bumped into each other in the jungle, and then it was just a race to see who could get their gun out faster. And he got his out first. Jesus Christ. Now don't get, he's still, I mean, and then he got fucked up.

He got hit with a, he got hit with a rocket propelled grenade, and he blew his, his nipples missing, his calfs off. Yeah. And he had to lay there because they're in the middle of a firefight. He had to lay there for three hours on the jungle floor. Like I'm dead. I'm dying for sure.

I mean, he's, yeah, he's a little hero. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, and is it that different from what, like, my father was in Korea and Korean and war, and he said the most disturbing part was, which is still chilling, that the lieutenants or the officers would nightly bring in the Korean prisoners and beat the living shit out of them.

And I was like, hey, Brooklyn, you want a piece? And he's like, no, thanks. And it would just like beat the, just torture the guys, just beat them for fun. So it was already starting to lose the, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The clamor of World War II. And then, but, but Vietnam is a different, like, I feel like they, this, this setup, even though it happened in World War II, it happens in every war, the setup of search and destroy is what fucked them all up.

Because here you are, you grow up in the fifties, you're watching these movies. You have a little bit, even if you're not innocent, you know, you know, you're capable of, but you're still, uh, and then suddenly you're in the middle of this thing where they go, no, you have to burn all these Hamlets. Because like I said, the Hamlet program, the Vietnamese took over the Hamlets. So they go into Vietnamese are in there and whether they are or not, they're in enough where you're like, okay, it's them and me. And so you're torturing all these peasants out of their house, torture it, torturing

their village, burning their, oh, that's like the, that's the strategy. How long do they do that for? How long do they do the whole time? The whole time? The whole, from 1963? Yeah. From 1963. Jesus Christ.

And they said even, that's what more morally safer was, uh, the, you know, the guy from 60 Minutes. I always thought I was a fucking annoying guy, you know, but meanwhile he was a reporter and he had the, they filmed in 1965, torching of a Hamlet. 1965, early in the war. And that's when everyone started protesting the Vietnam War. Because they watched on TV that, wait, this is like liberating France. What's going on here? It was just all these peasants running and they're torturing the house and shooting

the pigs. Like that was on the national news. Jesus. On the evening news. That's what you were watching? Well, I don't remember that, but I'm saying, but people shot the whole country. That's when they're protesting. Because we were always the good guys.

We're always the good guys. We're showing it like, check us out. Never like boo or like, fuck, fuck. No, the news was like, hey, this is crazy. Because the news was doing their fucking job. True, yeah. And they're like, here's what's actually happening. No, right.

They just shot and Mollie Safer had to leave. Like they were threatening him because they were saying he took it out of context. He didn't, which you probably did. He took it out of context. Well, I'm saying, they weren't saying that they've been getting shot. Like Moines had gotten shot from that village. Oh, yeah. So I'm saying it wasn't like, you know, it's not just us evil and everybody else is

good either. But I mean, but no, they were still, it was a stupid strategy. You see, this is what happened. It was crazy because the French had just done it before us. Yes. So they, they did this thing called pacification where they were like, we're going to, they tried to do the social set. Like they were like, we're going to help build your rice paddies up.

We're going to give you food. We're going to build schools. And during the day, it worked. And then at night, the Vietcong would come in, take the food, take the fucking guns, hide guns in the villages, hide weapons, hide soldiers. So then during the day, they'd come back and they just keep getting supplies and they do raids from the villages with the weapons and shit the French gave them. Yeah.

And then so the French would come back and be like, we know you're harboring communists and they would burn the fucking village down. And then we did that. We did the exact same thing. And then the under the thing of like, we don't want communism to spread, which is funny to be like, we don't want, you want to be free guys. So trust me, and you're like, burn your buildings down. Like, trust me, this is.

Well, it, and I think we did the same thing kind of in Afghanistan, right? And Iraq, where we'd be like, we're going to give you guys money, work with us. And then the Taliban comes in at night and there's like, puts a gun to their head and it's like, you work with us. Yeah. I mean, that's the whole problem with everything, right? Yeah. If you go to some, you know, if the cops go to a neighborhood bar,

the only analogy I have is that everything is a neighborhood bar. And, um, but if they go to a neighborhood bar and go, listen, we want you, we, we want you guys to do a couple of troublemakers in here. And the troublemakers are in there. Well, they're outside waiting for these guys to leave. Yeah. They're not there. They're only going to be their part.

They know you're going. Yeah. You're not there to stay forever. So it always ends up screwing you, you know? Yeah. And if, if we don't kill them at night, they're going to come get fucking beheaded. Well, isn't that what happened in Vietnam? I mean, once they took over.

Exactly. They, they came by all that stuff. They just destroyed. They genocide got rid of everybody that bugged them. And everybody would do a pair of glasses. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, how'd you get those?

They literally went, well, just anybody who was so sorted fancy themselves, intellectual. It was like they, it's like the army came in and literally just rampaged through Bushwick, Williamsburg and Greenpoint in the past three years. Nice. I just said, hey, hey, hey. I get it. Everybody here was, everybody here was going to do a show at a bookstore.

Line up. It's burned the bookstores. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the thing about, that's why I never really got into Vietnam. You know, I like the Civil War and World War II where it's like, it's kind of noble. Right. And then Vietnam is the first one that's like. Well, it's so, but even Korea was like a harbinger.

It's all like, so psychological. And my, another uncle who fought in World War II and fought with Audie Murphy. Do you know who Audie Murphy was? No. Who's that? He's a famous, he's the most famous World War II hero. Okay. He, they made him a movie star.

He wasn't a good actor, but he was this legendary war took. My uncle happened to be in his unit. Oh, wow. And he said that all the hype to show the difference in the war, all the hype about him was, was true. He goes, this guy was the bravest. He goes, he was so crazy. He'd run right into battle.

They were at Anzio. They were at a battle of the ball. All these places he goes, he would just run right into battle. He's nuts. And in those days, they'd celebrate now in World War II even, even, you know, any movie about Iraq, there's still an undertone of darkness. All the World War II movies, they're like, Hey, there's no problem here. Yeah.

Kick their ass. Yeah. Like this guy's great. You know, it had like a positive tone to it. John Basilome. What's that? He was, he was in the Pacific. There's a rest stop in New Jersey, like one of the first rest stops.

That's what he got out of it. He got the Medal of Honor. He was, he, that's awesome. He fucking, it's in the Pacific in the show. Like he goes wild, picks up his gun without the fucking heat pad, just mows down the jet. And then he goes home. So they put him on a USO tour and sell fucking bonds. And he's like, no, I need to go back and fight.

So then he goes to Iwo Jima and is like, I'm going to do that gun thing again. What? And he died. Oh no. Yeah. He lost out the trick. But he got, yeah. Yeah.

But he was like, Trace, yeah. Yeah. He fucking. Yeah. My mom's got three tours of Vietnam. He, he did one and he's like, send me back. He did another. He's like, give me one more.

Who did it? My mom's cousin. Wow. He did two more. Three. Wow. He did three. He was, because he was like, fucking, I'm not going back.

I'm going to do it. And what did he end up doing? After the war. I saw him like spazzing, fighting an arcade owner or the boardwalk one time. That was Charlie. 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:28,080 He's got a man. That was Charlie, dude.

Dude, he was. But that's a whole point. Yeah. He was with my mom the one time when they were younger and he was sleeping in the car and some guy like screamed something at my mom and he like popped up and was just got out and beat the shit out. They were in traffic on the highway. Yeah.

Beat the shit out of the guy and throw him on the side of the road. He's like, come on, let's go. Imagine that guy. He sees a woman in a car. He's like, fuck you. The guy sits up. The guy pops up. Dude pops up.

That's a Vietnam. Fresh from three tours. I think it was like 74. It just pops up like what? Can you imagine three tours? I mean, that's a real, that's a, I mean, two tours is crazy. But at least you feel like during the second tour, the guy's like, fuck what did I say yesterday?

Yeah. But if you go for three, that means you're like in all the way. Yeah. That's when I told the guy, the dude I was talking to was actually is my ex-father-in-law. I was talking to him. I was telling him about my mom's cousin. Like, oh, that guy just likes killing people.

Yeah. And I was like, maybe. I mean, he probably just, there's also the guy. Everyone's got the thing. You go there. You go there. And then you go home and you're like, I can't be home. After, you're just in the fucking jungle.

Yeah. Killing people. 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,640 Now you got to go pretend to be a human. Yep. Yeah. So you're going to get off the road for a long time. Yeah.

Say it happens to cops. It happens to cops to a lesser degree. If you did it with a friend. Was that, yeah. It happens to cops too. Yes. They get addicted to that adrenalized state and go home. They're like, this sucks.

Sure. And they stay there forever. And, but the other thing with Vietnam, which I've watched a lot of those YouTube guys with an interview and you see the similarities in them eventually. And one of them is that they said they got screwed. First of all, just imagine this. Supposed to be the country setting all this money for aid.

They, one guy was, several of them said the sea rations were terrible. He goes, we looked at the date on some of them. They were Korean and World War II. Yikes. That's all the sea rations were. Jesus. So they're given the troops. That's supposedly the richest time in our history.

And the other one is the M14. They said the M16 got more guys killed when they switched to the M16, because Westmoreland wanted, or one of these guys just, it was like a vanity project. The M14 wouldn't jam in the mud. The M16 jammed. And they said, guys would just be getting killed, bayoneted to death because it would jam.

And you couldn't unjam it. Oh, fuck. And they did the M14 was the early gun was better. That sucks. Yeah. America really fucked up. I don't like it. But yeah, the whole thing.

The whole thing was just. Bumps me out. Yeah. And then each president had an opportunity to fucking end it. Yeah, that's right. And they all just keep fucking dragging it out. But that's what I mean. That's what I'm saying.

But that's state. Kennedy. Yeah. He was close to ending it. He was. He was, but he wasn't. Well, they made sure he didn't. And they said, and this guy, Van, was talking to Henry Cobb at Lodge.

He was the ambassador. All the guys who were close to Kennedy. And it was just one of those things where it's like, just at the last minute, it's like any other decision you've seen in any power person, where you're like, everybody has this logical argument. And then they go, no, I think this is better. And you're like, what?

Why? You don't even give us a reason. And he never gives us a reason. There was. Was there any kind of economic advantage that like was clear? I don't think so. Really? They didn't even like make any.

Yeah. I guess there was nothing really there. I mean, there was Robert. No, there was Robert. Yeah. All the shit that was there was gone when we left. True, true. Robert, coconuts, all the rice, it was all gone.

I mean, we fucking killed it. Damn, that sucks. I mean, Agent Orange. I mean, when you think about it. Yeah, for a little bit. Agent Orange killing all the people, they said their levels of whatever, dioxin with three times anybody else by the time we left.

And all the troops, I mean, do easy on troops is just crazy. I mean, that's the height of like immorality. You know, it's just the guys that are there fighting. And you're just like, yeah, well, you know, it's like, no, no, no. In other words, you have to really try to be a little more careful with the opposite of what you're doing. It was really a weird situation.

You know, also the French were using napalm too. They were before us. Yeah, they were. We did everything they did. Sounds like a French word. The exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah.

You know what that is? Yeah. That fucking gel. Yeah. It's like petroleum gel. And they light on fire and you spread it. If you like touch it. You touch the water on it.

Yeah, you're into light on fire. It just goes on your body. It burns. Eesh. And water makes it worse, right? Because if you take it to the fire, but water on it gets worse. Yet stinks.

And I mean, but France really wanted Vietnam. So. Well, they had them before that. Yeah. They wanted it back. It must have, I mean, they had it. They lost it. They're like, I think we can get this back.

They want their baby back. So I spread some fire on people. Yeah. What is it about Vietnam? That's so, because we apparently wanted it too. We went in there in the mid fifties and we couldn't leave. You ever go to a party and you're like, I got to leave. This party's over.

Oh yeah. And it's like. It's like, you know, you got to get out. I'll do some coke. You're saying it was too early. It was too early. I guess I'll go on a boat and head left at 11 o'clock like I planned to.

That's Vietnam. It's probably just a psychological thing. It's like, you want to be the best general. You start losing. You're like, fuck, fuck. We got this. We got this. And it's like, no, no, no, we should have this.

Hear me out. This is my passion project. Yeah. This is my baby. Yeah. I mean, that's the other thing everybody was just about, you know, the military, like their job is to get more money for the military.

How can you get more money if you're not no more? You know. So how do you like, how does this thing progress? What do you get? How does it end? What's going on? Vietnam. I mean, look, it ended when we left.

It was the most, it was really, their lucky was the mid 70s. It was like 75, that famous rooftop thing. Yeah, Saigon. Yeah. They're lucky because by then everybody was just, it was like the age of apathy when I was a teenager. People just into drugs, you know, dancing. And, you know, it was just a very hedonistic time.

People had done all the protesting that happened in the 60s. People were done by the 70s. You know what I mean? And they're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when people left, it wasn't even, there wasn't even outrage. It was like, oh, that was, that was awkward. That was a bomber.

That was just, yeah. People were just like, whoa. Yeah. You just can just go. Yeah. And you feel bad for all the people at, you know, all the Vietnamese who were still helping us by the end. Fucked.

Yeah. Like that, that thing that helicopter on the roof. The helicopter. That picture. That's a long line. Yeah. And that's the last chopper. That's right.

Those boys are staying and that's, that's a fucking negative time. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When that chopper takes off and you're like next in line, like, fuck. Yeah. I got to have a similar spirit.

I was at Longwood Gardens waiting for a shuttle to like go see the shuttles. Like, I was like the last guy. I had to wait like 15 more minutes. I was like, motherfucker. Yeah, I don't know what happened. It settled down. It's better now.

No, it's not. It's not tearing. The damage is done. I mean, that's the thing. The power shift immediately. Yeah. And all the people, like, when you think about the people right now in your life,

that you were like, ah, fuck you. And then if suddenly they're in power, they go, where is this son of a bitch? Astoria. Where does he live again? Yeah. And then, you know, you just hope they, you know, accidentally mistake you for Mike Feeney and kill him.

Yeah, but what's it like? So you had, you grew up watching Vietnam. And what was it like for you to see like the Iraq war? Is that the older I get, the more I'm like, I just saw this before. I believed that there were weapons of man's destruction. They got you, too. They got me.

I believed it all the way. I said, there's got to be weapons of man's destruction. It wouldn't be this, you know, they wouldn't be on to this extreme after Vietnam. They wouldn't be the armed leaders. They're not going to be fooled twice. Wouldn't be this diabolical. I said, they can't be that stupid, you know,

or diabolical. Either way, I said, there's no way there's not weapons of man's destruction. There wasn't. I mean, I was a kid. Me and the Senate believed this. Yeah, you and Hillary Clinton. All of us, yeah.

Only a few days. I was a kid and it was 2003. Yeah. So I was fresh off 9-11. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was an eighth grade fucking Patriot. I had a bone to pick. Yeah.

I was pretty much a troop. Yeah, you had you. I had you. Four years later, I'd be going to West Point. Yeah, they had you. I was ready. Yeah. But yeah, being on my seat up.

Iraq, I was pumped. I was watching the, you remember, when they watched the news. I like the fact that you think she'd get into West Point. You know, there's a hard school to get into. I got it. He was in. You did?

Yeah. Wow. I'm very impressed. You did? Yeah. Well, I quit right away, but I went. Oh, that's impressive. Yeah.

What do you have to get on your fucking SATs to get into a place like that? I played football. That helped. Oh. Yeah, they got me in for that. Yeah. I got like an 11 something on my SATs.

Nothing. Yeah, it's a little. Right, it didn't make it, but it's not that good. Little above average. Yeah. That's a good, that's potential 11. I got 1030. I was 1100.

For football, that's a fucking 1600. Yeah. I got 1030 in my defense. I did take them on THC. That's pretty tight, actually. You know, the THC pills, or are you smoking weed? Pills back there. That was in the 70s.

THC pills. We had THC pills. What? Yeah, dude. I thought that was fucking New Age bullshit. No, dude. All that shit we took, it wasn't probably as powerful, but it was, it was real.

I heard the THC pills are powerful as fuck. 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,600 No, the ones back there. Well, because Angel Dust was sometimes sprinkled it, but I'll tell you what. This is gonna chill me out. To give you an idea of how I did, she was powerful. The first time I took it, I was on the corner of my block,

and I had to walk back to my house, because I was like, you know, it's probably a couple of hundred yards, you know, from the corner. I had to walk by putting my hands against the wall. Oh, shit. Like this, the whole way. That's how scared I was.

You had way more than THC. No, totally. They didn't know. They would make pills, and they would be like 2,000 million. They didn't know anything about it. People in the 1950s. I remember when they were pink, small squids. I still remember them.

Yeah, it was just pure THC. I would hear about this all the time. And they would take these pure THC pills, and it was probably like 2,000 milligrams. And no one had any idea what was coming. No one had those, like, one time, I took an edible at the airport stories. Yeah, it's true.

It was just, you grew up in the 60s, and all of a sudden, you were on 2,000 milligrams of weed. Well, those people, at least by the 70s, it was more, yeah, those people, they would dose the punch. Like, people, you didn't even want to take, you were there for a fucking glass of wine and a joint, and suddenly you're tripping on this giant. That was the crazy times of the 60s.

That was the acid, too. People ended up, look, people ended up, you still see a few acid casualties from those days. Yeah. Well, the government would do experiments, and they'd be like, we'll give them what would be like, 800 hits of acid. And they'd be like, yeah, this stuff fucks people up.

It's like, well, you gave them 90 million times. No, people would volunteer for that shit. I would have, if I was a teenager back then, I don't know, I know, I would have. Yeah, I'd have been tight. I would have been happy as hell. Yeah, that was weird. That must have been, I mean, I'm talking like I was there.

I just hear from, I used to sell weed to people, and they were like, any time the dude was like 60 now, they'd be like, you should have seen the THC, but they would always get the, there was that, there was the quail, the ludes that were kicking around. The ludes were good and bad, but I mean, THC was something very specific. Like ludes were around for years.

Yeah, you guys' drugs stunk. It was dust, THC, but it was the worst. You guys would have loved Molly. Probably, yeah. Ecstasy would have been nice. You guys would have enjoyed that. What we used to take was, you know, methadrine was different forms back then.

Like in the 60s, I think it was DMT, whatever it was. But by the 70s, we would take crystal meth, which sounds more dangerous than it was. It wasn't as powerful as meth. But it wasn't meth. No, we used to take it all the time, crystal meth. It's probably out of all. But it was definitely child's play compared to what meth was.

Yeah, you guys were like taking them. Yeah. Uppers, quail ludes. Uppers, taking some crystal meth. Dust is nice. That's a good. Angel dust I never took, thank God. I smoked it on accident.

Bad, right? Bad. They was fucked up. People got addicted to it. I can't imagine how. I knew a guy. You know them. They always are.

They have an eye like this all the time. Whenever someone does dust off, they're like, they always like twitch. Oh, fuck. I know a dude that was going like, I think 20 miles an hour on a motorcycle on 95. You know what's interesting about the trouble? You know what's interesting about Vietnam,

which I realized we all had army jackets in the mid 70s, early 70s, early 70s. Everybody wore Vietnam on the green army jacket. Like that was the biggest style. And it was Vietnam vet. It was Vietnam clothes. So even though nobody really welcomed them home, that was a really important part of the style.

That's funny. Because people dress like instruction workers now here. Yeah, that's right. Like, yeah, that's weird. Yeah, you dress like somebody who works harder than you. True. That's right. But yeah.

So did you get to witness like dudes coming home and getting kind of treated like shit? No, but I definitely, like I said in class, that girls brought other guys. And like I said, I knew the Vietnam vets, but they didn't get treated like shit in my neighborhood. I mean, but because everybody's like, oh, like I went to Vietnam.

It was like, it was a consequential thing. I think it was mostly like a protest over the airports. But I mean, in general, was it looked at as kind of like a shame? Like you went to Vietnam. No, not a shame, but there was something like, like it was a series. Like everybody knew like these guys went through something

that was a little different from like World War II and stuff. That's how it is. And they had a long hair. So even the patriotic people would, well, like this guy's like, you know, is there a long hair? But they were, you know, they were great guys. I mean, yeah, some of them were really great guys. You know, they weren't that fucked up,

but they get wasted at night. But everybody, in those days, it was different. Like they weren't like, oh, that guy drinks because he's a Vietnam vet. People were getting fucked up all the time. Everybody was smoking weed. Everybody had a long hair. Everybody had all my jackets.

And everybody was just kind of insane. So it was, it sounds awesome. Yeah, it was kind of awesome. But there's something different, at least around then at that time, you know, I need to bring it back. But I'm gonna bring it back. I need to get way more militant.

My weed smoking army jacket. I'm fucking up right now. It's funny to be fucked up and smoking weed. Like, yeah, I'm just dark military. I needed to be like, it is weird that our biology rejects burning villages. Somewhere, you know, if you do it, fucks you up.

It's tough coming back. Oh my God. But I mean, the tragedy is that they were, that was literally the strategy that they were told to do. Yeah. So what does that do to you? You're listening to the people. You don't make those decisions.

It's a chain of command. They're saying burn the villages. You can't really half-ass it really. Oh my God, I read a horrible book. It was just witness, guys that had done atrocities in Vietnam. It was just an oral history from guys that have done things in Vietnam. And I'll tell you, I remember one quote somebody said, you'll never be surprised.

You're going to be shocked. Some guy was talking to some other reporter or somebody who was going over there. And he goes, you're going to be shocked at the cruelty of a 19-year-old American boy and what they'll be capable of by the time they leave. I mean, that's the thing. And the guy goes, that's what happened. That's the thing. Every one of these wars, every one of these atrocities is 19-year-old,

20-year-old boys with, they've been killing people for a year. Sure. They're going to go wild. Yeah. Once one of your friends gets shot, it's like, all right, we'll fuck this. Yeah. We'd be the same fucking way. Yeah, of course.

And I mean, to varying degrees, some people would love them more than other people. We'd all be the same way. Yeah. You would love it. What? War? Yeah. No. Atrocious.

Committing atrocities. Yeah, right. I'd hate it. You would be the worse. Fuck me up. I'd be in a long hair and a jacket so quick. What the fuck's going on? Yeah, I don't know.

That would be, I mean, you know, because there's like, I think they just gas you up enough to get you over there. And then it's like, your friend gets shot. Or you're fucking drafted, dude. True. Yeah. Think of that. You got about that.

You're fucking drafted into that. 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,160 You're just, yeah. And Kyle, like, even the guys, you just were like, I just had to drop out for one semester. They go, the minute I dropped out, they got me. Like, they were watching people to make sure the minute they got him, they're like, get that fucking guy. They're probably like finding out their grades and like, get this.

He's going to drop out. Yeah, he's not going to do it. Yeah, Michael played basketball just to get out of it. He played basketball at Westchester to get out of it. Really? Yeah. Who did? Michael Jack.

He was, he was like, oh, he was off the perfect age to get drafted and he just pooped it up. My dad was graduated college or high school in 74. So he didn't, he got a draft card, but he was. My dad was too young. I always make fun of him for being a draft out. He got a draft. He got a draft card. He didn't get drafted.

Yeah, 74 was the war ended. He was trying to get out of there. The war ended, but it was funny to, it's fun to make fun. He probably got the last year of the draft. The draft probably ended in 75. That must have been so nice. It's nice to make fun of him for being a draft. I can't believe you played football at West Point.

That's pretty impressive. Well, I didn't, I quit. Did you practice? But let's answer this question. Did you just play football in high school that you were going to try to get on West Point's team? Or was West Point putting you on the team? No, West Point recruited me. I got recruited.

That's impressive. Yeah, it is. That's fucking division one, isn't it? Yeah. D1 ball. Yeah, that's why I went. The position he played. Offensive line.

Quarterback. Wait, I was the quarterback. I was a wide out. I was going to say tight end. That'd be really nice. No. Tight end is the best position. It was a fucking offensive card.

Tight end is the best position. You don't really have to block. You don't really have to catch, but you have to do both and you do them whenever you want. True. He's got to run and go. Tight end. That's it. Yeah.

Three steps, cut across the middle. That is impressive. It's... It is impressive. D1 ball. Yeah, you guys should have seen me crying. Is he going to Penn State? Did you go up near Penn State?

Yeah. I wasn't good enough for that. No, they're fucking monsters. Those guys are fucking... Yeah, they are monsters. There's a difference. Yeah, there was another... Division one, there's a huge jump from Army to...

You just had to play Navy. A major program. You would have been in a war, though. Yeah, it was during... It was 2006. I would have been... Even though I was a graduate. Yeah, I would have been in...

You might have 20 minutes. You would have been in Afghanistan. You would have been in the Surge and Iraq and then Afghanistan. We showed you right away to Afghanistan. Yeah, man, you would have been... And I went over to the shows in Djibouti, too. We had trips in Djibouti. We went by Somalia.

We got off the plane and it was flies. I mean, the whole sky, like, I'm like, what is this? What is right up here? Was this dark, like, dirt? Like, I thought it was like a... So we kind of have a cold. It was flies.

It was fucking flies. Djibouti and Somalia would not be great to grow up in. No. Djibouti stinks. Somalia would be pretty good. Yeah. Djibouti that I heard she had. It was fucking Djibouti.

Yeah, it's a rough place. It's such a funny place. You know how the capital of Djibouti is? What? Djibouti. Really? Yeah. Djibouti, Djibouti?

Yeah. Pretty tight. Just thought that's nice. Where is Djibouti? It's in the Horn of Manor. That's what they said about Vietnam. They said you go to the plane and it's stunk. That was the first thing they noticed.

They said it's the hottest place on the planet and it smelled. Yeah. The minute you got off, that was the first thing everybody noticed. Djibouti stinks. No, no, Vietnam. At least. Oh, Vietnam stinks. Sorry.

I know you're doing that. No, that's what I thought you were talking about. We got good movies and music out of it, though. Out of Vietnam. Was that really Vietnam, though? Yeah, the birds. There was enough suffering and bullshit that good stuff came out of it. I'm saying but most of those moves.

Oh, yeah, it came after, obviously. Or before, but it wasn't really directly related to us. I'm, you know. ABBA. What's that? ABBA came out after. I'm saying all the good music was used in the Vietnam movies. Yeah, true.

But it wasn't necessarily because of Vietnam. Yeah. By the way, I did a show of 9-Eleven Wounded Warrior thing last summer. And in the middle of John Fogan, he's speaking of one of the famous Vietnam soundtrack guys, you know, Queen's Clearwater. Yeah. He gets on in the middle of the show. It's everybody's tired by himself, basically, which is a little band

and sounds and looks exactly like he looked from the old days. And destroys the place. Wow. It was really so impressive to see. And that was, he was a real Vietnam soundtrack guy, you know. Every Vietnam movie's got a like Queen's Clearwater song. They'd be nothing without Vietnam. Queen's Clearwater.

Yeah. Well, they wouldn't have been bad. They wouldn't have lasted that long. You're right. True. But it's also because he had a lot of rain songs and a lot of apocalyptic songs. I think that helped.

Like for example. Like have you ever seen? Right. Well, that song. Have you ever seen rain? Like I was like, oh, that must be about Vietnam because it's about this whole clash. It must be at the end of the world.

It's about him and his brother fighting and then breaking up a band. So that's what I mean. I wanted to be about Vietnam. Yeah, yeah. He's got an argument with his brother. Yeah. Then it wasn't the guy who got sued for using like copying his own music.

When he did CCR, that was owned by some record label. Then he put out his own stuff, but it sounded so much like CCR. He got sued by his record label for stealing his own music. They would sue a guy. For sounding too much like himself. That's evil. That's a tragedy.

Maybe it was real. That makes me sick. I think that was him. That makes me sick to my stomach. Yeah. They have the audacity to sue a guy. It was illegal for him to go too many jail strokes at once.

They'd be like, uh-uh. Oh my God. That's really psychotic. Fucked up. Yeah. In like the 80s too. He like needed. Well, I'll tell you one of the greatest scenes

that you ever see that Beach Boys movie where his father goes, well, I sold the rights. And that guy, you know, what's that actor's name? He's really good. The young guy that played Brian Wilson and so. I don't think I saw a Beach Boys movie. It's pretty good. I mean, it's not that good, but he's, this guy's so good.

He's that actor. He's always in many of these, but he was just, he just is sick. He looked sick when his father goes, I said, you know, the Beach Boys father was like a real dick. Beach Boys, another one. Talk about it like that. How that, I wonder how that influenced their relationship with music. Like his music Beach Boys is before people knew about Vietnam.

And then so they, a lot of bands were associated with the, the more conservative. I would say here are the bands that would be the Vietnam vet guys, not the hip music. It was anti-war. I would say the Beach Boys, Frankie Valley in the four seasons, the young rascals. Like there's certain bands. Damn, it sucks to have PTSD and listening to fucking the Beach Boys.

It was probably nightmarish every day. Well, then they got weird. The Beach Boys ended up getting kind of weird. Sure. Well, I don't want to discuss it unless you guys watch the movie. Oh, true. It's such a known entity. But the whole thing is that crazy Mike Love, you know, he's the lead.

Yeah. He was the one, he tried to sue Brian Wilson for using the name Beach Boys when Brian Wilson wrote all the songs. That's fucked up. But then he gives this speech. You have to watch this speech of him at the, when they were inducted into the whole of fame, rock and roll, whole of fame in like 1988.

Because I already said he was kind of a douchebag, you know. He gets up there and he goes, just 1988. 88. Yeah. And he goes, Beach Boys, I'd like to thank, we had more number one hits than anybody else. We toured the world 16 months in a row. I'd like to see the mop tops that the Beatles try to beat that one.

Oh fuck. And then he says something as he goes, I'd like to see Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones try to top, like he was literally arguing from like 1965. Beach Boys fucking roll, dude. That just moved me. I'm like, fuck yeah, dude. Fucking pussy ass Beatles.

Beatles are fucking pussies. Mick Jagger is a bitch, dude. Yeah. The Beatles are the best. First of all, I love the Beach Boys, but the Beatles are the mess. Because just imagine everybody's trying to be hipper and more bluesy. And these guys will be like, in the middle of their thing, they'll do songs with fucking oboes and kazoos.

Yeah, that kind of rules it. I mean, it's kind of badass. It took it back for the whites. They took it back to the dance hall shit from England in the 50s. You actually get back documentary? No. That may be a Beatles mania. I heard it was awesome.

I want to see it so badly, but I want to get Disney Plus. I'm just too lazy. I'm sick of putting in passwords. I can't do it. I have to have a password for Disney Plus. You know, they have one password for everything and just use it. Like one thing you could buy a subscription service. It's communism, dude.

We almost had it. We fought it off. Was that an M? Yeah, it was communism. We almost had it. Communism is one password. One password. That would be at me, actually.

Like, dude, everything's on one thing. Just put on your gray sweatsuit. But the Beatles were part of that. Music was, you're right. Music was really part of what people at that time. I remember it was such a Vietnam thing. Like, you would see these shows. And even as little kids, we knew, like,

if you'd watched like the Dean Martin show, because we watched everything. You were a little kid. And you're watching the Dean Martin had a TV show. And you knew they were pro-war. And then you watch, you know, almost no other TV show was anti-war, really. Laughing was a little bit, you know.

And which one was anti-war? Well, laughing. I'm saying, like, all these shows on TV, so they have these old people. And you think, you know, we're like seven years old. Like, those are the squares. Like, you know what I mean? They were, like, pro-war.

And then you see, like, young... So it was cool. It was cool to be anti-war when you were young. Sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, that was, like, the hip thing. Oh, so you're saying, like, the sanctioned station shows were just kind of like... Yeah, like, most of...

You knew, like, they were squares, even though we're little kids. We knew they were squares. So the shows at that time were supporting in a horrific war and like a horrific kind of government thing. But they weren't really supporting it. But you just kind of knew that that was, like, the way it was in some weird way.

You could sense, like, that was it. That's why Saturday Night Live was the first really anti-establishment. Like, I know the Smothers Brothers and all this other stuff, but... Still are. Saturday Night Live. That smells good.

They go against the grain. Oh, yeah. Big time, dude. Yeah. But I mean, when they first started... But again, it wasn't political by then. Yeah. That was just like, oh, shit.

These people, we all smoke... Like, the whole country smoked weed in those days. Everybody got fucking high. It's amazed to me that it wasn't legalized then. Yeah. Everybody smoked weed. Everybody had weed on them at all times. Everybody, you know, under age 40.

And SNL was the first time people, like, wearing tie-dyed shirts on TV, like, they didn't dress up in jeans. And you could tell they were stoned. And you could tell they make little jokes, the whole show, about being stoned. So, like, that was like the... It was the most breakthrough thing

I've ever seen on TV. That's kind of nuts, I think. When was that? 75, 76. That's kind of nuts to think about. Yes. That was the end of right after the war ended, I guess. And now, you know, the major late-night shows

are just freewheeling, big-time freewheeling. Now it's just back to Vietnam. Truth to power. Where they're all like... Yeah. Truth to power. You better listen to the government. True.

All right. Yep. It's kind of fucked up. The government's right. Dude, I'm telling you, I talked about that earlier. It's the concept of an anti-adromia, where anything at its absolute extreme flips into its opposite.

Yeah. Sure. What do you call it, anti-wife? And I think, I'm not pronouncing it right, but an anti-adromia... I'm not sure. This is a swing of the pendulum, dude. Yeah. The pendulum's reaching just to go back to it.

Can you say swing of the pendulum? It's more poetic. Yeah, sure. I should say that. Why don't you use the scientific term for something that was beautifully... It just sounds cool. No, swing of pendulum sounds cool.

The pendulum swing. Pendulum sounds cool. The zenith of the pendulum's just the beginning of it going back to the other state. Yeah, I like that. The pendulum, I like that. I mean, that's not what you're saying, but pendulum's much cooler than anti-adromia.

Okay. Yeah. Man, shut the fuck up. I thought I was doing something poetic. Anti-adromia was nice. My eye hurts. What's the fucking snake eating itself? Orabores.

That thing, too. That, too. Yeah, that's in there, too. We got that. Snake eating itself. Yeah. Orabores, dude. What do you call it?

Orabores. Orabores, yeah. But does it really eat itself or does it just appear to eat its own skin? That's the question. Let's get back to the job, dude. How about King Rat? I like that one, too.

What's King Rat? Well, all the rats are going to circle together. Do you know that one? Yeah, they all like eat. What do they do? They tails get caught together and they end up. Oh, yeah.

Rat, net. Like when their tails get knotted together, you ever see that? Oh, fuck. That's what King Rat is. Ew. Yeah. And what, do they bite each other to death?

Probably. I don't know. That's what I thought. Yeah, rats, for sure. You ever see rats get killed by terriers? Yes. That's pretty fun to watch. The greatest.

Yeah. It's really fun to watch. Okay, well, let's go. Yeah, let's dig them up. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that is the best. That's good. It's the best.

See, them scared for once. Yeah. That's so tough. I don't mind the rats in New York. You don't? I really, they don't affect me. No, they start on those. That's when you live in a story where it's like,

was this real? There's almost no rats up here. That's right, because it's whole, well, I'll tell you where they are, probably right by the, that little area near the airport. Although I saw one last night for the first time like on my, on my front porch there.

Right here? Yeah. It's the first time I've seen one. It's called an airway. What is it called? Airway. Airway? Front porch.

Well, there's no porch. Well, you don't have to be poetic about it. But I'm being New York about it. Call it airway. You call it an airway? Yeah. I'm not New York at all. Yeah, but it says you're living in...

I know, I'm working on it. Airway. Why do they call it an airway? I don't know. Should we call them going up? Airway. Oh, you're from New York? Yeah.

Where in New York? Brooklyn. But how do you feel about Brooklyn now? That's fantastic. Well, you know, I mean, I have mixed feelings because like I said, if it had kept going the way it was going, it wouldn't exist anyway. Hmm.

True. You know, obviously now this... That's an anti-adromia. I was going to say it's either way. Yeah. The extreme now is the other thing. Mops, there's the white pictures. Anti-adromia.

I'm starting to like anti-adromia now. Hell yeah. None of us are saying it right. But only you. Yeah. My girlfriend likes Brooklyn. She does. I like Queens.

You do? Yeah. I like this. This is good. This neighborhood's good. I used to live up the block. Yeah. That's crazy.

You lived right there. I lived right up the block. I lived on 42nd Street and 30th Avenue. What? There's a bar there called Blackbirds. I don't know if it was around back then. Well, you're back then, Suspenders. You know, Suspenders, the Feynman ball on 37th and 3rd.

They used to have a location over there. Okay. The bus terminal is still over here, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's where I lived right near the bus terminal. It's wild. It's crazy to me.

I like seeing the rats, though. You do? When I walk from the stand in the cellar, like back and forth, you walk through, I guess it's Washington. Not Washington Square Park. I think Grant. What park's right by the stand?

It's about, like, by every place? Union Square. Union Square. I'm an idiot. And the wall, the park's like shoulder level. Yeah. It's a little elevated. So you see the rats, like,

see them running around, like, right next to you. They love a wall, don't they? Yeah. They love a trail. Wait, so did you see the dude? Did you see, like, 42nd Street back in its heyday? I didn't just see it. I...

What was it like? Indulged in it. What was it like? It was like... That was a glorious fapping at a peep show. It was, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was... It was, I mean, I was a kid. So to me, I was very excited.

It was 1918, but... Wait, wait. It was like that, honestly. Oh, shit. 42nd Street back when it was... I thought you were talking about this street. I was like, what the fuck was going on here? This is 42nd Street.

I'd fap on 42nd Street. I do whack off on 42nd Street. It's the Greek guys drinking, like, sparkling water. It's one of those... Wait, when you lived here, was it all fucking Greeks and Russians and Arabs here? It was Greeks, yeah. Yeah.

It was all Greeks. Back then, it was all Greeks. Yeah, it was in the 80s. Yeah. Probably 85, 86. Damn. And I feel like it was yesterday. Really?

I feel like I was just here. I was like, yeah, I used to live around here. It was 100 years ago, and I'm like... Yeah. It just feels like it was yesterday. That's crazy. That is fucked up. I feel like it was just like three summers ago.

So you lived in... Yeah, it's crazy. So you love The Deuce, the show. I like that show. I like the idea of what it's like. Yeah, I lived... I mean, I was in Times Square when I... It's funny because the 70s to me, when I was a kid,

like, teenager, and we go to Times Square, it was wild. But the 80s, it was a little more dangerous in a different way. I can't really describe why, because it was the same. But the 70s was like more like The Deuce. Yeah. And then the 80s was like these huge gangs. But the 70s were huge gangs, too.

So sometimes you have 42nd Street and a gang. A swarm of kids get off the train and just start robbing the few unshady people that were there and just start knocking shit over, ripping... It was the early days of camcorders. So you see the kids waving the trophy for camcorder. You know what I mean? Gang.

But so it got a little wild, but I mean... And but like I said, I did a whole show about those days in New York. And one of the things I talk about is how people would go to a play and nobody went for dinner or drinks after Broadway show. You went, right? Get the train or cab and get the hell out immediately.

Nobody would hang out after. You'd have dinner before you... Nope. Or everything was shut down by 11 o'clock. Really? After a play. Yeah. No, the streets would deserve...

All Times Square was crowded, but with dirtbags and a few tourists that are like, what am I doing here? But the Broadway's all like 8th Avenue, all those restaurants. All shut by 11 o'clock. Damn. But you were saying as a teenager, you had access to... We loved it. You had to take the train right here.

Damn. You're getting this going to Pete, lady with a bush. In the 80s, mid-80s, I lived in 44th... 45th Street in 8th Avenue. So I was always in Midtown in the middle of the heyday of all that stuff. Yeah. It's crazy.

That used to be like severely fucked up over there now. It's just like... It was really bad. Yeah. You miss when it was shitty? Yeah. I mean, you miss it, of course. But you're looking with a rose-colored glasses.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you were there now, you'd be mad. Oh, yeah. Well, even then, I knew you could die. There was a lot of bad shit going on. Yeah. So it's always...

You always remember like, oh, this, but it wasn't some fun glamour. Yeah. Taxi driver is fun to watch. There's a movie. But when you're in the middle of it, it's like, yeah, no, it was really bad. Yeah.

Because even... What was that Bruce Willis movie where it's shot in Philadelphia in the 80s and it's just terrifying? It's 12 monkeys, was it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They shot a Bruce Willis movie in the 80s in Philly, and it looks crazy how fucked up it was.

12 monkeys in late 90s. Was that late 90s? That's Philly. You know, you have to subtract 10 years from 100. That's real good. Philly's fucking shitty. Philly's a New Yorker in the 70s. I used to always say that.

Yeah, it's still... I was talking to Laura outside. Yeah. And I go, oh, you're from Philly? I like Philly. She goes, yeah, screw it up now. You should... I can't stop talking about it.

I've talked about it. We were just down, dude, Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia. Is fucking crazy. I've never seen anything like it. It's truly a national disaster. It's a national... It looks like zombie apocalypse.

I was... We were filming our sketch show down there last two weeks ago, and I would just drive. After every shoot, it'd be like one or two in the morning. So I would drive up and down Kensington Ave. And I've never... Dude, people injecting into their necks into open fucking wounds on their legs and shit.

It's terrible. Yeah. Somebody should do something. It's tough. But is it interesting like what... This is the problem with democracy. You can't just do something. Yeah.

You have to make sure everybody's on board. Everybody understands. Even the people you want to stop have to be on board. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the problem with democracy. Yeah. Yeah. But if it was communism...

Why did they say communism? They'd be up against the wall. I was saying fascism. Yeah. Monarchy. Yeah. Theocracy. True.

I like a nice... We do need to fucking get a nice... Aristocracy. What's a democracy? That's a good question. I think it's a combination of... It's one of those old Play-Doh things where they have democracy.

And I think it's a combination... Well, we'll have to look up. I don't want to say that anymore. I think it's a combination of... What's citizens like... Nice. What is it? Oh, there you go.

Oh, I thought you knew it. Okay. You need to own property to do things in the government. A democracy. All right, fair enough. So like a limited aristocracy. I like it. Oh, mind that a little bit, maybe?

A homeowner? Not bragging. I'm a homeowner. Taking my dad and friend from back home and brother-in-law of the Yankees game tonight. You are? Yeah, I'm excited. We got the front row seats from the boss over there.

Steinbrenner? Yeah. SNL. Are you... Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Braining glove? I might catch a foul ball behind the net.

Gloves. Don't be the dickhead that doesn't give it to a kid. Last time I sat behind a home plate, I got... I was drinking a little, and then any time a foul ball comes back, it's terrifying. Yeah. There's a net, but it's going 100 miles an hour right at you.

Jesus Christ. And I was so drunk that it flew and hit, and like 10 seconds later, I was like... It was a very embarrassing moment. One time I was drunk at the... It was the Yankee game. This is... Oh, 100 years ago,

this guy, Toby Harrow, was playing for the Rangers, I think. And I kept saying, Toby, Toby, hey, did they think about giving you a boy's name? Toby? And so my whole section's laughing, right? They're like, Toby, the game was a blowout whenever it was.

I forget it was when... It's just a shitty game. And he starts lining it towards where I said... Oh, no. And the whole crowd turned on me. He's like, you son of a... If I hit with that ball, we're going to kill you.

The wise ass. That was back before they had fucking nets up, right? Yeah, I don't know. You people must have been getting it. Dude, he started to hit with fucking bats. He lined like three in a row and people like... Like when he's up the bat, like he went out of his way to just try to hit this loud mouse.

That's incredible. Holy fuck. By the way, those loud mouths are my least favorite thing. Oh, the worst. It bothers me so fucking... The worst. They're timeless. These dudes that go to baseball games are from the 60s.

Yes. I don't know how they're still making these dudes. Dude, it's before Internet College. There's white guys that go down and sit on the third base line and are like... And they have... Alec. Just yelling at a guy at third.

And they have the projection of an opera singer. You can see the player getting... He can hear it. Yeah. He's getting insulted. Yes. He'll be like... Watch a guy shake it off.

Girls that would fuck me up. It's fucking crazy. Girls they would have got me. Girls they would have got me. It's such a great mocking voice to... I had a friend that was really good. I mean, I was a llama. But I didn't go out that often.

But my friend, he had the best voice. And it's always that tone where it's like... Cut to it. Yeah. Like he cut through everybody. And then he's just... They would pick this old man out. You see that Yankees Guardians?

Well, the Indians game? No. The fucking outfield jumped into the... I mean, they were up on the wall like trying to... Oh, I think it's... Yeah. Fight the fucking bleacher creatures. Oh, it's so funny.

Well, it's so funny to work your whole life and be like, finally a pro and there's just some dude, some mailman waiting for you. Some drunk mailman. Well, it's the same in comedy. Only the problem in comedy, which people don't talk about, is that sometimes the drunk, usually the drunk, is your fan. Oh, always.

They came to see you. And then you got to kick him out. And they're like, hey, you got to kick him out. I know. And it hurts me. That's the worst. But you know what? What are you going to do?

It makes me sad. It's pathetic. Somebody has to leave. It happened to me two weeks ago. Yeah. It happens constantly. And the guy's like, he's my favorite comic. Yeah.

I had a guy in North Carolina, I had to kick him out. He was yelling the whole time. He's yelling shit from the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And you got to be like, all right, please. You got to head out. That was the fifth strike.

He's ruined the entire show at this point. Him and his girlfriend leave. He starts resisting in the doorway. He's grabbing the door. That's the best. He's like, this is going to work. This is my one thing I'm looking forward to all month. Yeah.

And then he goes outside to kick him out. I watch him sneak back in. Yes. And he didn't like sneak through the back. He walked to the front of the stage to get back to his seat. And I was like, because you know, the lights are on. You can't really see.

I was like, is that there's no way this is that guy again. He's back in. The whole guy was like, it's him. And they get this. Scared he swore to me again. You should get his phone number and put him on the podcast. He was good. No.

Put him on and say, listen, I want to talk to you when you're sober. You can represent the whole new breakthrough. How did you feel about that? You can break through a whole new thing. How much did it cost you? And how did you feel about coming to see your buddy, Shane, and trying to ruin my fucking show? Yeah.

But I don't want to. It'd be like naming a school shooter on the news. True. I don't. I don't know if I want to give him the publicity. No, but you're not treating him nicely. You're saying, look, you're representing all the assholes every community's dealt with.

Yeah. It's not a bad idea. No, they helped the show. They do. They're always like, dude, I helped. They were just laughing. True. Oh, we're not allowed to laugh.

They always say the same shit. Well, you know, in front of the comic club, they're talking to me. I can't talk back. It's like, no, not like that. Yeah. And I'm not talking to you. Yes.

I'm talking. And you're drunk. So you're like, he's talking to me. Did you ever guy he was talking straight to me? Did you ever guy he was talking to you to go be quiet? Yeah. Then that's crowd work. Not a chance.

Then we were like, hey, could you be quiet? Oh, he's trying to talk to me. Now we're doing all right. To shut you up. Now we're doing the act I dreamed about, where me and him become friends after the show. Yes. True.

Yeah. I think you should definitely get the guy because it really is disturbing. Well, I don't know. But I mean, it could be the worst idea of all time. It probably is. But it's just disturbing because when you think about how many of these people are fans, because people think of

hecklers as people trying to ruin your show. Sometimes. But I'd say 80% of the time, they're fans. Yeah. That's wrong. Very rarely happens. Once you have a fans, it rarely happens where somebody's heckling you to ruin the show.

No. When you don't have fans. The people I hate, you're sitting there quietly. Yeah. When you don't have fans, it's an entire room of people who hate you because they don't know what you're going to say up there saying wild shit. And there's somebody that's like, hey, asshole,

shut the fuck up. And people are like, yeah, that's when you got a heckler. Yeah. Or when they get you with a good one and the crowd laughs. Yeah. Fuck. I always give it up. I always give it up.

I'm like, oh, for sure. But I feel like I feel like when they get called out, they go like, all right, all right, I'm going to turn this around. They keep doubling down. They're like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to finally get out. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm not going to leave. Dude, there was a guy in Brea this weekend, front row. And Brea is a huge room. It's like 500, 600 seats. He's in the front. And anytime the crowd was laughing or I had like a good joke, you go, Shay, Shay, Shay, Shay. And he did it from the start.

And I was like, bro, please stop, stop. He kept fucking going. His buddy's sitting across from him like, stop, dude, stop. And he would stop himself and then forget. And like two minutes later, he'd be like, shut it. It's so it was fucking crazy. It's so fucking infuriating. Yeah.

I was at a woman that was not, she was trying to, look, she was drunk. I could tell by herself. She was an old rock, I get some of those. And she was, but you could tell like, she was just like, you know, have been through the mill and by herself. And she goes, every time I finished a joke before the laugh, I didn't realize there's a slight pause before

people laugh after you finish a joke. I didn't go ready to laugh her, but it's always a second and then they laugh. In that millisecond, she would go, yeah, it's through the whole night off slightly. And nobody would know except me. Yeah. And I was like, I was trying to explain to her, but me

when I was like, what are you busting our balls for? Of course. And she's even horrified. Like she almost started crying. I'm like, oh, it just, and it was just such a weird line. Oh man. How about that girl in Philly with the laugh? Do you remember that?

Were you there for that one? There's a girl in the front row that was like borderline. It sounded like sexual. And she was in the front and it was like anytime, and she couldn't stop because once I pointed it out, she couldn't stop laughing. Yeah. And it was like this insane fucking thing.

What? And you can't be like, hey, shut up. Shut up. I know that's a problem. It's like you're having the most fun. Your laugh is unacceptable. Yeah. Why would you sit in the front?

You knew you laughed like this. Yeah. You banished a man? And bananas? We exercised. Banished a banana. No, we exercised him from the crowd. We just kept, we kept it going and finally his bros left

and he was like, and he just walked away. That's so fun. We got him, he reached a fever pitch and he just was like, brrr, and he's walking away. Bananas was the first place I ever kicked the table out. That's good. That was the first place. I never kicked people out.

Yeah. That was the only place. I think someone kicked like 10 tables out of my one show. One of the openings must have kicked them out. Honestly, that's, if I had my way, and I've said this for 30 years, I would not allow drinking in comedy clubs ever. That'd be great. But then you don't get paid as much.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's the problem. Just the food has to go by the food. No drinking, alcohol, no. What about a two drink maximum? Well, maybe the problem is they're drunk before they get there. Yeah, for sure.

It probably wouldn't even work. Or to swallow like a tranquilizing pill, just to loosen them up and that's it. Yeah. For the clonopin. Well, now a lot of people have stoned the whole show, which also has a weird energy, you know? People on mushrooms are weird heckling.

They don't even try to heckle you. They'll just be like, that's very good. Yes. Yeah, and it's just like laughing like, oh, yeah. I'm like, why are you surprised you're in a comedy show? Yeah. Maybe all the people that are stoned are sitting there like looking at you like the whole show.

Yeah. And then you get done and you're like, you guys hate, that whole table hated me and they're like, that was the best show. Yeah. And you're like, holy shit, dude. Yeah. And that fucks you up.

If you see one table just of dudes that you know are fans, because they're high and they're like, all right, that guy obviously likes me. He's wearing a fucking shirt or whatever. Yeah. And that the whole table's like, you're like, fuck, I'm not living up to what they thought. By the way, we left out one thing through my comedy now,

is Vietnam veteran comedians like Blake Clark. Do you know Blake Clark? No. What? He was in a bunch of Sandler movies. And he did stand up in 80s and 90s. And he was on a tonight show as a Vietnam. He was a lieutenant in Vietnam.

And he was like, you know, in it like a heavily. Wow. I think he was a heavily decorated guy. I think it was like a real war hero. And he was a stand up, like a legitimate stand up for years from Georgia. And his opening joke used to be, you know, I was in, you know, I grew up in Georgia.

I joined the army. I was in Vietnam. And he goes, and I still have flashbacks of Georgia. You know? Because I've never had flashbacks in Vietnam. Yeah. I wonder how many vets were comedians, how many other guys. And he's the guy Frankie Bastille who claimed he was a Vietnam vet.

And the way he behaved, you believe him. Rich Voss knows him very well too. And I only say that because I knew him. I won't do it a few times. But I know if Rich Voss hears this, he'll be like, I was close with it. And it's like, all right, you were close with him. And I wasn't.

Man, Voss, I miss Voss. I don't see him anymore. No, you don't. No, I used to see. He was the first guy to take me on the road. He's the greatest. He's the funniest fucking guy in the world. He is actually might be one of the funniest people of all time.

Absolutely. Everything he does. I love Voss. I just see him now. He's nice to me, which is very funny. Yeah. Because he always, you know, he was always, he was always very nice.

He was always a ball buster. But like, I remember right when I got SNL, he was like, not joking. He came up and was like, you know, I've always been good to you, right? I was like, holy shit. But that's what I love about him. He didn't try to hide it. No.

Now you might. Some people might say he's too dumb to hide it, but it's more than that. You know what it is that. But you've been watching it. He posts, do you know Instagram? He posts landscaping videos. Don't shit.

I watch a book called The Words. Landscaping with Rick. They stink. They stink. They're so funny. Dude, he went digital graffiti was unbelievable. So we had this show. That was physical graffiti?

It was called digital graffiti. We had a show where they- See how old I am? I go physical graffiti. There was an example. There was a screen behind the comedian. And there was a group text of other comedians on the screen making fun of the comedian.

And they couldn't see it. The comedian on stage. Yeah. What we were saying, the work, like the chat was coming up. Trashing your friend. As they try to perform. And the audience-

So it roasts a silent roast basically, where the audience can see it and they're laughing. Oh my God. And the comedian has no idea what everyone's laughing at. She can't turn around a little. And we would do it to open micers and ourselves. And the only good comedian we ever did it to was Voss. I asked him.

But he didn't know what was going on. He didn't know what the fucking show was. He still doesn't know. I didn't know. No, he holds it against us to this day. He was so fucking mad. But usually I would do like three minutes and you just can't take it.

It's the worst feeling in the world. People are laughing at you. We said it before. Of course. People are laughing at you. And you don't know what they're laughing at. So you invent what they're laughing at. You think it's the worst, most insecure thing you can think of.

And he did fucking like 12 minutes. Voss just eviscerated us. The guy's texting. He would lean forward and look at the screen for a second and be like, oh, real fucking funny. Like, he was just... So I did more. I spent more of my teeth than these guys made all year.

Yeah. I was like, damn. Boy, you rule. Voss is... Believe me, even when we used to do opium anti-poop, people would be trashing Voss. There's compilations of you versus Voss on YouTube. And they're some of my favorite things in the world

to fucking listen to. Because Voss, you'll be attacking him. It's almost like people almost feel bad. Everyone's ganging up on him. And then he's slowly... He starts counter punching. And he just starts going after everybody's jugular. And it's so funny.

And his spirit is like, you take me down, you fucking knelt without a fight. And it's so great. He's the only one who made it through. He was the only person to stand that. Yeah. And go through it. It was unbelievable.

Of course. Well, that's because he was doing fucking... He's used to it. There's nothing to him. Nothing. That was crazy. But yeah, I would look at all of the Vietnam comedians. That would be kind of interesting, huh?

Oh, but this guy, Frankie Bastille, that's what I was saying. Yeah. So Frankie Bastille, he was a... Said he's a Vietnam veteran. I'm pretty sure he was. But he had a black heart tattoo over his heart. It was like a... Oh, look.

He was like a Jersey Bill Hicks. Like he would just go up and be like, man, let me tell you people something. And he always, I think he was a Vietnam veteran. Because one time I went on and bombed, and he goes on after me. He's the headliner of some One Nighter. And he goes, do you think I fought in Vietnam

so you dumb fucks could not like this guy? You fucking asshole. And he's just like... Oh, wow. Disrighted the guy. No, I loved him for it. But I mean... Damn.

Truly a hero. Yeah. He was great. And I thought we almost... And we did a couple of gigs together. We did a couple of gigs together. But he was one of those guys that just seemed like a Vietnam guy, you know?

And he did say it on stage. So I'm assuming he was. Thanks. He was a school bus driver. There was a Vietnam guy. Really? And he was fired. He would get fucking fired.

That's a good bus driver. He was screaming at people. That's a good bus driver. Yeah. That was a good bus driver. A guy who's seen some things. For sure. All right, we should wrap this up.

Yeah, let's do it. All right, guys. Hey. Dude, thanks for doing this. Thank you very much for coming and doing this. This was awesome. Great. Yeah.

Hell yeah. All right. Adios. Wow, wow, Wes. I was probably like this is like a fucking... Crisis video. It is. Death to a man.

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