Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast - Ep 512 - White Prisoner's Dilemma (feat. Jared Klickstein)

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

Support the D.A.W.G.Z. @ patreon.com/MSsecretpod Support Jared and Buy Crooked Smile @ https://www.jaredklickstein.com/ Go See Matt Live @ mattmccusker.com/dates Go See Shane Live @ shanemgillis.com Get Merch @ mssecretpodcast.com/merch Good afternoon everybody. We hope you all had a wonderful long weekend. We're back with another broadcast for you guys. This week Cusky was blessed by ultimate bro Jared Klickstein. Buy his book - it's a very good story!! He discusses his struggles with addiction, the white prisoner's dilemma, and much much more. Please enjoy. God Bless you all. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/MSSP and get on your way to being your best self. Support the show & get Lucy Breakers for 20% off & free shipping at https://www.lucy.co promo code DRENCHED Download the PrizePicks app or visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/DRENCHED today and use code Drenched for a first deposit match up to $100

We're live Jared Klickstein with the fucks up dude. Thank you for having me total honor dude Thanks for coming to do this. I was I was hyping your book up on that on the page around too I never really talked about on the regular one. I don't think no I appreciate it like what a boy changed everything Yeah, dude that shit was unbelievable. Thank you glad you're alive I'm glad I was you sent me the thing and I'm like all right. I started like I read a sample chapter I'm like oh, this is fucking I've always wanted for people don't know you've You basically lived for time a period on skid row. Yeah, and that's not the whole story is like, you know

How you got there how you started off blah blah blah, but Jesus Christ what a for my like perverted voyeuristic brain I was like I can actually like get some boots on the ground account of that because you just drive by it You're like Jesus So that for me was very satisfying which you know, I'm sure it's like thanks dickhead Really was always curious that that was like well, everyone's curious I mean everyone sees skid Row everyone sees these homeless junkies and like one finally made it out And is like can read words and write words and stuff. That's a big one made it out and is like can read words and write words and stuff. That's a big one.

That's a big one. So, yeah, so I wrote it and I try to make it funny because a lot of people write these like drug memoirs and they're really, you know, like Hunter Biden's memoir is probably not funny. No. Unless you're against the Bidens. Well, of course. He does a good job at swaying people.

I'm like, yeah, Joe Biden is a good f**ker. Maybe he is. I don't f**king know. Maybe he is. Yeah, it wasn't funny. Hunter's was is a good. Yeah, he is I don't fucking know maybe is I wasn't yeah It wasn't funny hunters. It was not. Oh you read it. Yeah, red hunters. Okay. I'm on a big autobiography kick man I read them all although I feel like in you know forgive me But I think there could have been aspects could have been aspects of his that might have been politically pressured to kind of like Paint a certain light. Oh, I'm sure I'm sure he didn't write it either. That's another big

Yeah, so I wrote it and listened to it. Although he was pretty productive, man. He was blasting, he was just ripping crack. He could have just. He could have, yeah. What's crazy is I was just in Boston and I went through all my personal stuff and I found all my dad's shit,

because my dad was a crackhead. And I got taken away when I was 12, and then he just went full Hunter Biden. He got these camcorders and I have like 20 hours of footage. No! No dicks or anything. Or not yet. I've only watched like two hours. What's his footage? So it's non-sex tapes?

It's just him? It's like him and my mom smoking crack and being paranoid, and him doing drug deals and setting up the camera on his little Ford Tours. Because he's paranoid. True. And it's like him filming his closet closet and he's like the CIA has like summoned a demon to live in my closet.

It's like really crazy shit. How many hours of this footage do you have? I have like 20 tapes. Yeah. Damn. So that'll probably be the subject of like the next book or like a documentary. I was about to say that would be a wild doc. Damn, maybe he was just reviewing the tapes, trying to get better at drug dealing,

and being like, ah, could have been a little more careful right there in that parking lot. Well, I think he was just really paranoid and was filming everything, and I think crack does make you voyeurist, or it makes you start filming for some reason. I don't know. Really? Yeah, but this is like 2001, like with the camcorder.

I could see that. If you wake up, you're like, damn, last night was a movie, dude. I gotta record the next one. And he's like learning how to edit it was like editing on the camera like doing swipes and stuff So it's like him smoking crack and then there's just like a swipe of a picture of a crack pipe He's like doing like I movie shit from 2000 So you're gonna go through all that footage I'm gonna go through all yeah, I went through like two hours of it already damn What was that like that must have been kind of charged?

I mean, I know I'm laughing and and I know this is a comedy podcast, you know, but uh, yeah, it's dark Yeah, it's fucking dark. Yeah My god, yeah, that would uh, yeah. Yeah. All right. You submit for America's funniest some videos I mean your dad your dad passed my dad passed. Yeah. Yeah. Not from crack, yeah. He cleaned up, yeah. But thank you, yeah. RIP. So this is a weird way to be introduced to my dad, but, and I hope there's no dicks or any like,

I'm just praying that there's no like sexual stuff, but he wasn't like that. You can blur him for the doc. That would be pretty rugged, dude. Yeah. It's also a, I don't know, there is something hard, cause it's your parents, you know, it's your dad, so there's something like I don't know there is something hard cuz it's your parents You know, it's your dad. So there's something like you aren't warming about watching it, but it is. Yeah, it's utterly twisted

Well, it's really fucked up is like I remember them on drugs. Yeah seeing them on drugs is like heartwarming. Yeah You know, it's good footage that is that would be a pretty stellar doc Yeah, HBO if you're listening, you know, yeah If there's any part of you that's like is it right? It's like dude. I always say yes Yeah, they owe it to you. Yeah, they had you he recorded the crack footage. Don't waste it They're like should I really put them out there like that? I would say yes not in a bad way But it's like it's a story to tell. Yeah, exactly. If I was doing that my kids had all that footage I'd be like, yeah, dude. Yeah, you can do anything with this, please this Please no and it shows them in like a pretty good light. I mean they're good people

They were good people you know so like they're like having conversations and talking about cool shit And and like you know dragons living in the closet and all that So it is funny it is dark, but uh You know unfortunately, that's all the footage. I have of them really yeah damn Yeah, I mean most to be fair most people don't have any I have of them. Really? Yeah. Damn. Yeah, I mean, most, to be fair, most people don't have any, I have no videos of really my parents, so. I know, you don't really think about that.

So fortunately they were crackheads and got really into camcorders. That's pretty sick, dude. I might hire a camera crew, a full-time camera crew, my parents now, catch their final, yeah, just catch their remaining years, turn their whole life into a reality show against their will.

Yeah. No, I filmed my dad recently, like, right before he died, he like told a story because he did Yo-Yo Ma's kitchen and like all his finished carpentry or like finished cabinetry and all that and he was like stealing Oxycontin from Yo-Yo Ma. Who's Yo-Yo Ma? He was a cellist, celloist. Yeah, yeah. Who was on Oxy's? I think he like is a legitimate guy that got like a back surgery or something. Yeah, I believe that.

But my dad did not, you know, he was just stealing it. Doing his kitchen and hit the pantry. Yeah, so he told the story, it was pretty funny. That's really funny actually. Yeah. How the kitchen turned out. Really good, my dad was a great carpenter. He did John Kerry's desk and office

and John Kerry tried to not pay him. What? Yeah, John Kerry. Senator John Kerry? Senator John Kerry has a, yeah, apparently he had an issue not pay him. What? Yeah, John Kerry. Senator John Kerry? Senator John Kerry has a, yeah, apparently he had an issue with paying people. What? Yeah, they wrote about it in the Boston Globe. Yeah. Damn.

I never heard, you heard it here first, dude. I never, well, the Boston Globe wrote the story, but heard it here second, dude, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah. So he tried to stiff, how much did you try to stiff your dad for? Oh, I don't know how much, but my dad went, he was like a senator in Boston,

and then I guess he went to DC at some point, and my dad went down to DC and did his office down there. Gotcha. Yeah. And he was like, thanks, dickhead. Yeah. That's brutal, dude. Yeah.

That sucks. So that was like your whole start was just, you grew up just, it was pretty, it was kinda nuts. I remember you described it as like, it was nuts, but as a little kid, you would just watch your parents just it was pretty it was kind of nuts or like I remember you described it as like it was nuts but as a little kid you would just watch your parents just kind of off the rails and be like no they're just a little stressed like you eventually learned there's a funny part of that book was like I thought they were smoking weed and I was like yeah shit dude well that's what's cool about the dot like the tapes that I have because my dad

would make his own crack pipes and he would and they look like little like bongs you know so I would just find these bongs and I just thought my parents are smoking wheat Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, cuz I saw half half baked came out and I was like, oh my parents are just you know They just wait. They just weigh 90 pounds and they smoke wheat It must not be getting the munchies enough. Yeah. Yeah, that is that is pretty there was parts of that book Literally, I would just start crying. I brought it to Denver Denver with me I read it like I like started reading on the plane. I'm like Jesus Christ It's so like engrossing you get so engrossed in it And then I like I'll get back from shows and just read it for like hours

I ripped through it and like pretty much a weekend. Yeah, well. Thank you, man I mean, I'm not like obviously I've like have holes in my brain, and I've like killed a lot of brain cells So it's an easy read you know I'm not like I'm not Shakespeare or anything But yeah, but I know English in there at all the yes relieving But I appreciate I'm sure you get hit up by a lot of people with like here's a picture I drew or whatever here's a book. I wrote you know. Thank you for reading it. It was awesome It was genuinely really and then it's so and you've you've been on Fox I think a couple times or maybe what else you've been on the news

Yeah, you're like giving like the takes on like homelessness, which I thought that was kind of cool, too I didn't know yeah, cuz you came out of that I'm sure people would love to have you like see we need more funds and you're like actually well Fox loves me cuz uh Yeah, if any opportunity to shit on California like they'll take you on so they took me on like immediately And I'm like pretty apolitical but um and everyone was like don't go on Fox like it's gonna fuck your life up. Fuck Fox and all that and I was like no I'm gonna go on Fox. And I did it and it got me a book deal and

it actually reunited me with my aunt and uncle. That's pretty cool. They thought I was just still a crackhead. What? That must be nuts. You know I like five years so they saw me on the news. I saw you on the Winners Network. I was like, damn dude, he's fucking winning right now. Yeah.

Well, they don't actually, they're kind of like, they don't like Fox, but like a relative was like, yo, Jared's on Fox. And they saw me and they're like, oh shit, he's probably not smoking crack. Yeah. They have to watch it and be like, huh, this is pretty good. Yeah. I mean, it is a, that was a cool thing you did in the book where it's like, you know, here's my story, and then it's like, by the way, and I think you did this pretty good where it wasn't like, because you could have like went full court press,

like here's my takes on policy, blah, blah, blah. It would just get like tossed in, peppered in, you'd be like, yeah, it's a fair point. Yeah. And correct me if I'm wrong, your whole idea is that like, definitely we should help homeless people but like let's Kind of build accountability in there if you're just kind of like putting people up for free or just like Showering people and resources and not dealing with the inner issue. Yeah, you're killing them because they're just gonna keep getting high and die Yeah, it's like a house is burning down and like instead of spraying it with water You're like here's like medicine to like deal with your burns Yeah, you know like we have's medicine to deal with your burns. You know, we have to address the key,

like the foundational issue of addiction. And listen, there's a lot of homeless people that aren't addicted, obviously. Some of them are just mentally ill permanently. A lot of those people that are mentally ill, I was mentally ill. I was screaming in a McDonald's dining area. I was yelling at people and throwing shit.

That feel good? Yeah. I've always wanted to get up. It kind of does because when you're home it's crazy because when you become homeless you're like I'm not I'm like jaywalking it like starts with jaywalking and then you're like I'm gonna like deliberately walk in front of cars. Yeah dude I always wondered about that. So you start being like fuck these cars I'm going. And then you're like I'm gonna litter and then you're like I'm gonna like knock over a trash can. And it just like escalates and it's like I'm gonna litter and you're like I'm gonna like knock over a trash can And it just like escalates and it's like I'm gonna throw shit at people in a McDonald's And then it's like I'm gonna rob people. Yeah I might as well put all this energy to good. Yeah, and that yeah, it does escalate cuz cuz going to jail is like

It's basically like a sleepover. It's like oh shit. I get to like chill for like three days So going to jail is like not a punishment. It's like oh shit. I'm to like chill for like three days so going to jail is like not a punishment It's like oh shit. I'm gonna get a pillow and like a shower. Yeah, so you're like I'll throw shit at people yeah Fuck this lady up. Yeah. Yeah, I saw a guy recently Which we're calling Jesus Christ. I'm blanking on where I was this is bad I was in Portland, Oregon, and they have a lot of homeless people. Oh, yeah Yeah this weekend, and I said there was this guy I was I was me and Nate Marshall were walking and this guy He like just he was kind of drunk. He was like oh, what are you guys homies, and I was like yeah actually we are And I was like maybe he's just being friendly

I couldn't really tell and then I come back and he was just getting in homeless people's faces and being like what's up, dude And like but shoulder bumping him. I'm like dude I was waiting for him like please fucking bash this guy's head in with it That was because that was a thing too like the I didn't realize how hard everyone was rumbling in this I mean obviously I knew there's like bad stuff going on You're saying like you'd sleep with like a pipe between your legs people come in your set up, and you got to just fucking Yeah, that was that shit. I was like I mean it makes sense obviously But I was always like I think people are maybe just chilling a little more peaceful No, I realize you're pretty angry

Yeah, cuz you have nothing to lose when you have nothing to lose You're willing to lose your life because your life isn't worth that much so and I'm like, you know, I'm like not big I'm like a white guy. I like look, you know, I look the way I look but uh, you know I looked like I was like 16 until I was like 30 Yeah, you know, so I look like a kid and same and then I look like I was like 30. You know, so I looked like a kid. Same, and then I looked like I was 75 very fast. I skipped like three decades of aging. And now I went from looking like I was like 27 to looking like I was like 55.

Yeah, well I look forward to hitting that relatively soon. But yeah, so I looked like a bitch basically. I mean, I'm not hard, you know? So yeah, people tried to fuck with me. And you know, being white on Skid Row is unlike everything else in life, it's a detriment. Yeah, it tried to fuck with me and like, you know being white on skid row is unlike everything else in life It's it's a detriment. Yeah You know wasn't that but but people were almost like flabberg they're like, what is this like suburban white boy?

They were like kind of respected it. Yeah, they're like, holy fuck man This like clean cut white kid is is like doing it on skid row So and it was probably came in handy like your I was reading that like That's kind of nice when you're able to like use your kind of appearance to it just helped you yeah like I went to college I can talk so like people were like oh shit we could keep this kid around and like Talk to the police for us or whatever and I was really good at stealing because of it Yeah, you know if you're like a Mexican guy with tattoos all over your face It's it's not easy to like go steal. Yeah, trying to lift toothpaste is not easy. Yeah, yeah.

At least 10 years ago. True, yeah, now it's all locked up, I guess. Yeah, yeah, so that kind of fucked everything up. I was doing it back in the day when they weren't locking everything up, and I had a pretty good system, and I made more money than I do now, like working a job. Yeah, you were saying when you were shoplifting,

it was a couple thousand a day, pretty much? No, like a couple thousand a week a job. Yeah, you were saying when you were shoplifting, it was a couple thousand like a day pretty much? No, like a couple thousand a week on tax. Yeah, sweet. So, like the same that you would make it like a job now. Same, or it's a shame you missed the self-checkout. I know. I had no excuse. I was of a relatively sober mind

and I pillaged those things pretty hard in the beginning. And it wasn't even for like a lust for stuff, I was just kind of like, it was more of like a game where I'd be like Is anyone here actually paying attention to this yeah, and it turned out no not really at all though but yeah, I've since for obviously giving that up, but the Yeah, remember that part of the book we had a guy who would serve as decoy And then you were to slip into the side and just cuz he was I guess everyone's like oh this motherfucker He's gonna come in here and steal and you could just clean out and move yeah yeah

Richie I mean his real name was ride and I'll just say it I guess but yeah riding was like known across LA County as like a top shoplifter so he'd go in first all the staff would be like fucking ride ins here they would like you know like all huddle around right and then I'd sneak in with two like Trader Joe's like permanent shopping bags tucked in my pants and Just like dump shit into my bags. Damn. You probably looking pretty hippie when you went out there though I know I look like a good some like a good Samaritan just chopping that way So they had them in your pants and you popped them out pop them out and then carry

Yeah, just carry two bags and I linked up with this like What do you call it like a fence and I got him to start buying makeup? So I just like pour makeup into my into my bag and he'd give me like two seventy five per little eyelash thing or whatever and Yeah, I just started making a ton of money damn and still going to sleep every night with zero dollars. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty wild That that was the craziest thing so for you It was like, you know and again in the book you kind of detail but you start start out you know it's pretty like regular kind of stuff, but you in terms of the Drug use it wasn't so much of like I'm gonna try this I'm gonna try that you just describe having this just like

Constant feeling of like this is wrong shit's wrong shit's fucked up Yeah, and it was like I need to stay drunk all the time and it was the thing you the thing you talk about really like it's just how like the Kind of the mental gymnastics of like look. I'm always here's my line I'm like this is I'm good on this side of the line if I cross this line Then it's a problem then you cross the line you're like look now the lines over here if I cross over here Then I'm fucked then eventually it's like I've got damn it Yeah, yeah, you there's just constant and obviously the end line is like I'm gonna have sex with a guy for money

You know, that's like the last line and unfortunately, I did not cross that line. I know people don't believe that but why? It's just all my high school friends are like we know you did it, you know, and I swear I didn't I mean one time I let a guy tickle my feet for $100 who wouldn't dude. That's who wouldn't And he actually was like a kind of a camcorder guy. So like he filmed it. Oh, no. And I've hit him up on Gmail. This was like 2011.

So I've recently hit him up on Gmail and I'm like, yo, I know you've tickled a lot of feet, but like, do you remember me? Like, I'd like to see that footage. And he's like, I- I'll give you a hundred bucks. How about that? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And he's like, ah, he's like, what size foot were you? Like, I gotta remember. And he's like, I'll give you a hundred bucks. How about that? Yeah, exactly. And he's like, he's like, what size foot were you? Like I got to remember. And he's like, I don't know. I've tickled too many feet. But he like tied me up in a bed like with those like, you know, those like kinky tie up things that have like quick release. It's like safe play or whatever. I can imagine. Yeah.

So like it was like kind of my wife. But he was cool. He went to UC Berkeley UC Berkeley was like a small Asian man nice we talked to you You know I went to UC Santa Cruz, so we we had our little rivalry We talked we know we talked school, and then he tickled me that was he what was his deal was he kind of like? Just a sexual pervert. He's just a sexual pervert. Yeah, it's kind of otherwise. Yeah, chillin normal job Yeah, oh, yeah, he I think he had like a good. But he was just like, I'm really into tickling. I'm really into tickling feet specifically. And I was like, well, I'm like a meth head,

so my feet do not look good. I was like, can I keep socks on? And he was like, no, no, you gotta take the socks off. So I took the socks off and he was like, put the socks back on. Your feet were thrashed. Yeah. Oh.

And then he was like tickling my feet. And he was like, and I wasn't laughing. Eventually you stop laughing, it stops you coming ticklish. And he was like, I wasn't like eventually you stop laughing it stops becoming ticklish And he was like you have like you that's how you get paid like you have to laugh So that was weird. You had to fake it? I had to fake it. I faked it. Yeah So that was really like the and that was pretty innocent honestly, so I crossed way worse lines in terms of like You know damage I did to other people and things like that that I don't feel good about. But generally I had a pretty good time. You know, I started out as a heroin addict and that was pretty manageable and boring. You just kind of get

sleepy. But then I moved to methamphetamine and that's when things kind of... The way you did that was kind of cool. It wasn't in this bad idea, but like how you're saying you were, yeah, you're delivering heroin for a guy and they basically forced you like, bro, I know you're going to be nodding out and shit, hit some meth, get out there. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of worked for this guy that was like working under the cartel and, and, um, and he would pay me to deliver heroin and heroin addicts, you know, as you see outside, there's, they're sleepy, you know, they're pretty sleepy.

So, uh, he was like, I can't trust that you drive and do heroin. You're going to crash. You're going to get arrested. So you got, you actually as a prerequisite for the job you have to start doing meth. And that was a line, you know, that was a line, and I was like, well it's part of my job details, like obviously I'm gonna do that. True, being responsible.

Yeah, and in meth I like fell in love with meth. I'm a company man. Yeah, I'm a company man. And yeah, I started doing meth and that, like I went from like a homeless student, I mean no, no, sorry, a drug addict student, pretty manageable, had a girlfriend, all that, to within three weeks, screaming at people, homeless, lost my place to live,

dropped out of school, crashed my car, lost the car. Yeah, meth really quickly took me down. That kinda sent you into orbit, basically. Yeah, and I lost my mind. And there's a lot of fun to be had like in Methpsychosis and all that but it does become pretty unmanageable and Eventually I used crack cocaine to quit meth So I know fell in love with crack because I got you off the math

Yeah, and I've heard vice versa I've heard of people using meth to get off the crack a lot of people actually do that Yeah, so if you go to skid row it's like full of like og crack heads that switch to meth and they're kind of like Are they tame or they kind of out of it? Well meth is cheaper? But I think you see meth is like you can stay up for six days on meth and like really start doing some damage like Scream, you know really thinking that you're talking to demons and all that and you get into this like really dark psychosis Whereas crack is very simple. It's just like you Think the it's like you're just paranoid about the police. So like it actually and it's very like short It's like short bursts of this paranoia. That's actually pretty fun. That's cool

Yeah, so like you smoke crack and you think like the FBI is after you which is kind of cool. Yeah, that's better than demons I'd rather get to this realm. Yeah, that's better than demons. I'd rather keep it to this realm. Yeah, exactly. You know, put myself up to like, you know, interdimensional fucking beings and shit. And you like tell yourself, you're like, I'm gonna smoke this crack. Like, obviously the CIA is not after me.

Obviously the FBI is not after me. Like, I'm just a crack, I'm a homeless crackhead. And then every single time that you smoke crack and you're like immediately hiding behind a dumpster and you're like, there's a dumpster and you're like They're like I stole some makeup. They're fucking after I'm on like America's Most Wanted. I'm on the bulletin board Yeah that um Yeah, that is kind of terrifying. It was weird too when you said you were able to like eventually with meth Realized like with like like you know when you're

bugging out on weed like none of this is real but like I guess obviously it's way deeper but to realize like this is just a meth delusion and I'm and I was that you're able to like kind of ride that out a little bit which sounds fucking crazy yeah well when you first start doing it you have a lot of auditory hallucination so you actually hear like your friends in the so you're like holy shit my friends are in the house like they're in the next room then you start texting your friend, you know I would text my friends and be like, you know, I've you I hear you talking shit, you know And they're like I'm a hundred miles away right now

And then so but the auditory hallucinations are so They're just so insane that eventually you you are like, okay Like my friends are not in the next room, my family is not in the next room, and you sort of tame the beast at that point. And then it just turns into mental hallucinations, which are more creative and more fun. Okay, once you get over the paranoia,

you're like, actually, yeah, let's explore some of these other ideas. Yeah, yeah, but it's a terrible drug. I don't recommend anyone. Yeah. It's pretty hard to functionally use meth. Yeah, yeah. But it's a terrible drug. I don't recommend anyone, you know. It's pretty hard to functionally use meth. Yeah, I could have seen that. And keep your job.

Unless you're a Nazi soldier. Yeah, or a gay guy. Gay guys seem to be able to do it pretty well. I've heard that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's pretty cool. How, what the hell? Yeah, I don't know.

I used to chill with these gay dudes in San Francisco and they were flight attendants. Just held it down. And had jobs. Yeah. Do you think they were microdosing or they were blazing? No, I think they were using meth pretty hard. Well, you use meth for a long weekend.

It works really well with jobs that are three days on, four days off. Oh, that makes sense. You just crash for three days. And then they'd use GHB to come down. And I like GHB, but they were like, do not pass out around us. They were like, someone could come in. They're like, that's on you, buddy.

Yeah, true. So I'd use GHB and be like, it's time for me to go, guys. Yeah, like this is getting too wild in here. Yeah, dude. I mean, maybe not to sound like, you know, ridiculous, I could see that. If you're like a gay guy and you're just kind of messed up, people are like, hmm,

this is a little sassy today. Yeah. It might just take your sass to the next level. Well, they were my friends, but they were like, we have other friends that we can't, they might come in here and who know, you're passed out, who knows what happens, you know, so. They're looking out for me.

That's fair, yeah. Especially if you're partying on meth, that's like. Yeah, if you're partying on meth with a bunch of gay guys in San Francisco, it's kinda on you if something like that happens. I would agree, I would agree. Especially if it's kind of on you Yeah, something like that happens. I would agree. I would agree especially if it's like if it's already like were they like into like obviously They're probably doing like the chem sex thing and all that. Yeah heavy into chem sex. That's basically yeah They can't pass out the chem sex orgy dude. No you cannot pass out

I would say that's on you traditionally I'd be like well, you know people should conduct themselves in a proper manner But if you're just like in a proper manner, but if you're just like yeah I'm gonna go to bed right now, a little sleepy the HP is kicking my ass about to pass out guys you do you I'm gonna just sleep here on my belly don't bother me I'm such a pussy with substance I took melatonin for the first time recently cause I'm trying to like get my sleep, which I've had some success

getting my sleep schedule under like r wraps with like traveling and all this stuff So I've started taking melatonin. I'm such a pussy with substances like even that three milligrams melatonin I'm like take it. I'm just laying there reading a book I'm like not even working so I'm just reading reading reading all of a sudden. I like put my book down I'm like oh fuck my arms are so heavy. I was like oh no. I was crawling next to my wife like help me I don't like yeah, I was like the opposite like anything if anything goes into my body. I'm like, oh no, I was crawling next to my wife like, help me. I don't like, yeah I was like the opposite. Like anything, if anything goes into my body I'm like, what's this? What's happening? What's it? You know? But I do understand you get to the point where you go, I don't give a fuck. You're just, you know, I do get that too. So if like things are going wrong and things are, you know, you're just like, I don't give a fuck.

I need to exit. Do what? You build a tolerance to, like physically, but you also build a tolerance mentally. You're like I want to check out Yeah, so like I was like by the end I was shooting heroin cocaine and clonopin at the same time Damn, which is I don't even know if shooting clonopin works, but I was shooting clonopin I'm sure it does. I'm sure it got into your bloodstream. I think so. Yeah, it like what do you call it? It like It makes the heroin acts heavier, you know? Because you get such a high tolerance to heroin.

And like the problem with heroin is like, you get really addicted to heroin to the point where your life gets really shitty and then you want to kill yourself, but it's like a catch-22 because like, now you've become too physically addicted that it's hard to overdose on heroin to kill yourself. You know? Oh yeah.

So that chain, obviously with fentanyl, that's different. Yeah. You can kill yourself pretty easily with fentanyl. So you got out of it before, like the big shit with like the, what's that shit called, Trank with like the big moves, have you seen that? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I last got high in 2018, and I was, right when fentanyl really started hitting,

but I was in Florida at one point, and fentanyl sort of hit Florida first, so I have shot fentanyl. I don't like it. I died, I overdosed in some guy's car and he took me to the hospital and took everything out of my pockets and dragged me out of his car and left me.

Jerk. But they Narcan me and they were like, yeah man, you were doing fentanyl. And I was like, I didn't even know what fentanyl was. And they told me, so then obviously I was like, I'm never doing that again. And then like two days later, I was like, yeah man, you you you were you were doing fentanyl and I was like I didn't even know what fentanyl was He and they told me so then obviously I was like I'm never doing that again. And then like two days later I was like I'm gonna do that again And fentanyl as you died you clinic I died I died for like four minutes Yeah, I have a friend who did I died like three times. Yeah, it's crazy It's crazy cuz you're like dead and then they Narcan you and you feel like you're underwater and someone's like pulling you up from the ocean

You're like at and then they narc on you and you feel like you're underwater and someone's like pulling you up from the ocean you're Like at the bottom of the ocean you can't breathe you're like trying to breathe and then they pull you out Then you just pop out of the ocean and then you like you're just in a hospital and people are like looking at you And I heard you're pretty agitated too because you are all wears off It all wears off you're fucking pissed and they like don't want to help you cuz you're I'm like, can I use a phone? The guy took my phone. They're like, can you use a phone? Like, can I use a phone? The guy took my phone. They're like, can you use a phone? Like, fuck that.

Yeah, you're right on the beat. You're like, bro, I need to talk to my boy. It was before he boxed. You're like, lay down, dude. You're dead. Yes, and then they cut my shirt open. So I had like a, they like let me go with a gown in Miami. And I was just like walking around Miami with a gown

and like no phone. And I called my dad. I finally called my dad and he was like, he was just like, man, you gotta go to jail. Like jail would help you right now. Yeah. That's what you do. I think I just called some other people he was just like, man, you gotta go to jail. Like jail would help you right now. You know? That's what you do. I think I just called some other people

and eventually, you know, I got picked up but I just kept using fentanyl but fentanyl is like very debilitating. Like, you know, I would do fentanyl and like I did like a two week run on fentanyl and I'd like you do fentanyl and you just wake up 12 hours later in like a different neighborhood.

And you know, it's really fucked up Where's heroin you can like like I used to do construction on heroin. You can maintain it I used like operating heavy machinery and shit. Yeah, whereas with fentanyl I couldn't even make it back to my halfway house So like the one rule at my halfway house was like you just have to show up before midnight and you don't get kicked out And I got kicked out like I couldn't even drive a car. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense Yeah, I've worked with guys on heroin before. It's not like ideal, obviously, but you know. It's not ideal.

They can get the job done. Yeah, my dad did it for like 30 years. Yeah. You know. And you know, he did fine. Until he started smoking crack. And then, you know, crack is a different beast. Yeah, that's when I used to this guy.

I would ride around with him all the time in his truck and he would try to literally like get me to do heroin. He'd be like, bro, you got it. And my other friend explained it to me that it's really one of those things when you start doing heroin you're gonna You start to evangelize it because you want people underneath you exactly you can start selling. Yeah. Yeah, we work You know time you'd be like bro, man. You're like you'd be having such a fun time I'm like it's like he's just sweating profusely driving around like man. I think I'm right He's like dude you can eat like you're not gonna lose your appetite. You'll just party up

Awesome, I mean while I like literally picked him up from his house or like met him at his house I'm right. He's like dude. You can eat like you're not gonna lose your appetite. You'll just party up Meanwhile like literally picked him up from his house or like met him at his house He was actually the one driving which is funny enough, but I was just like him His babes is on a mattress on the ground. He also he was just like She was active in the family business. Obviously just like selling herself. Yeah, so all this stuff's being proposed to me He's like bro. I'm telling you it's a good time. I was like, I'm good, man I mean it is a good time when you're on heroin. Yeah. And then you wake, and then the heroin wears off

and it's like the worst time. Yeah, true. And then your life becomes this, every day, it's like you do heroin and you're like, I have 12 hours until I'm having diarrhea and like really sick from heroin. No, that's not far off. Exactly.

But it's like this, it's fucked. Unless you put heroin on the food in the airport, so you're not gonna have the same thing. It might be dosing me. But it's like a full-time job. And it's actually kind of cool because you have this one singular goal. And it's like, I just have to steal shit and get heroin.

And then it's like, I have to steal shit and get heroin again. And then next thing you know, like six months have passed. Whoa. You know, but the second something doesn't link up and you like you know you show up at the CVS and someone already stole all the shit and you're getting dope sick and everything because once you get too far in a dope sickness you're too dope sick to hustle up money and it's like this it's a crazy like treadmill that you have to just run every day yeah That's why they say a lot of people who get clean do like very, very well in sales

and all. They clean, they hit sales jobs and they just crush it. Yeah, yeah. That's a big thing in Florida. Like get off heroin, start selling like scam vacations to Canadians or something. Yeah. Someone I know was down there getting clean in Florida and he was like, if you ever get a bill collector or anything, just be like, how's it going, man? You clean. How many days you got? was down there getting clean in Florida and he was like, if you ever get a bill collector or anything, just be like, how's it going, man? You clean, cause you said a lot of people. How many days you got? How many days you got?

He said a lot of people that call you up on telemarketers down in Florida, like outside of rehab. I did it, yeah, my dad got sober in Florida, so I went out to Florida and lived in a halfway house with him and I tried doing the sales job. I left both times at like noon. Yeah. I just, I like labor.

I like doing labor. Telemarketing is crazy. I've tried my hand at it as well, and it's I Can't explain it's just the weirdest fucking job Here's a little thing and like dude managers are listening in on your call. I was intensely nervous Just a dude I know there's a guy listening I'm like fuck and they give you a script and it's like I know how to talk like I'm just talking to this guy And they're like no no you got to read and they're like listening on your headset and they're like read the fucking scripts

Yeah, I wrote the script just read the scripts are so bad How do they not know that it's like the worst possible thing? Yeah, but there's guys that are just making like five grand a week doing it. I know you know it's crazy Yeah, that is there were there were the office big dogs, and I did like Tech cyber. I don't know what it was. It was like selling like servers and shit. Yeah. And there were guys that were absolutely coining it in there. Yeah.

They just had, they could sit there and like hold it like out of a movie. They're like hold a ball and be like, let me tell you about the new Penny and four and you're also like, fuck dude. Yeah. I prefer getting paid like $9 an hour and just like doing demo. Yeah. With like no one that speaks English. Yeah.

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$5 you don't even need to win to receive the $50 bonus It's guaranteed prize picks run your game now. Let's get back to the show after a quick announcement Hey guys really quick. I have a couple of shows coming up. I'd love to see you there I will be I'll be in Philly this weekend, but that's gone to see you there. I will be in Philly this weekend but that's gone. Comedy Connection East Providence Rhode Island that is September 12th to the September 14th please go I think that'll sell out but let's have fun there. Cleveland Ohio I'll be in the Hilarity, I'll be at the Hilarity's Comedy Club from October 10th to October 12th and then Boston I'll be at the Wilbur. 1018, one night only two shows.

Come on, that's actually, that's poised to sell out any minute now. Any day now really. Also Milwaukee, I'll be at the Improv, 1024 to 1026. And these ones are big. Guys, please come to these ones, god damn it. Please, Washington D.C. area, Virginia.

I'll be at the Capital One Hall in Tyson's Virginia on November 15th. And then the next day, I'll be at the Capital One Hall in Tyson's, Virginia on November 15th. And then the next day I'll be at the New York Comedy Festival town hall, New York City, the state of New York, New York City, New York. That's 1116. Guys, please come. Then I'll have a bunch of other dates coming up. Love you. Bye. It does have like a freeing effect on the mind when you're doing that. When you're just knocking down walls, carrying heavy stuff. At the end of the day, you're tired, you lay down. Yeah, that's what I did in Florida.

Like I just did like grunt manual labor with like Cubans and Nicaraguans and yeah, this one guy had a tool chest that said work will set you free, which is what Auschwitz said. I don't think he was aware of that. But I was like, damn, work does set you free. True. And I don't know, it sets you, I recommend if you're trying to get off opiates or drugs like just

go do manual labor. I mean it really helped me. I don't do it anymore but fuck. It just makes the clock spin. You're just trying to make the clock spin at first. Yeah to get through the time. Yeah that was another thing too I found kind of striking when you were like, you would get clean, you'd be like, alright, everything's going well, then there'd be a part of your brain where you're like, I'm doing heroin.

I'm definitely doing it again. It's just a matter of time and be like, alright, I'm gonna make it to this city. I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna stop over here. That's the weirdest part of the whole thing when it's like, it's like a hard thing for people to wrap their head around because it's like you can have the experience of things going like as South as possible, but you know and like your immediate relationships get thrown off all this stuff you get clean And the thing that sucks about addiction is that thing where you're like I don't want to do this But there's genuinely a part of you. That's just like Fuck whatever yeah, you can't control it's hard to explain to anybody else, and it's such a weird part of ourselves That people don't really know what to do with like even like experts like yeah

I mean yeah If you're following your own will and you're a drug addict you are going to do heroin whether it takes you two days or a week or 30 days five years like you're just gonna you're just gonna do heroin and and You know your life. You know my life would get pretty good I'd like buy like a $1,200 car and get a little job and then be like, okay, I'm moving. I drove from Florida to Oakland one time and got my apartment set up and everything.

And then I was like, I'm gonna fucking stay clean. And then I hit New Orleans and I was like, I'm gonna go check out what's going on. And you're like, I wonder if like, you like talk to a kid at a gas station, you're like, is there heroin here? Like just out of curiosity. You know?

And then. There better not you're like, is there heroin here? Like just out of curiosity, you know? And then, There better not be heroin here, is there? But I mean, obviously this, you know, I know this is a Catholic podcast, you know, I got spiritual, you know, so. That's good. I've heard, I've heard that is for real, the thing that really helps, man.

Yeah, yeah. And people don't want to hear that shit, but sorry, like that's what, you know, that's what helped me. And it's not like, it's a non-denominational thing, but like, I just like had to give it up. Yeah, man, I believe in God, and I don't wanna get weird or anything about God

or anything, but I believe in something. You have to believe in something bigger than yourself as watching over you, and you have to kind of accept. It's actually like a humility thing. It's like when I'm in charge and I make decisions, I end up in a bathtub in Chinatown missing my toe or some shit and a needle in my arm. That is where I literally end up in a bathtub in Chinatown like missing my toe or some shit and like a needle in my arm and like that is where I literally end up.

And so I can't make decisions like when so you just kind of like try to align your will with God's will and listen man I'm sitting across the table from Matt McCusker right now and like I was literally a homeless guy on skid row you know so like you know I figure like a lot of people you know we see these guys like people want to hear these guys You know I'm one I'm a heroin guy like I'm a guy like you know so that is crazy No, dude if you were to sit there you drive past skid row, and you're like. Oh, there's a fucking published author Right you know you don't think of it at all. Yeah, it is great I I do think it is regrettable that that is that's just the taboo of our time religion taboo of our time Yeah back in the Victorian times. You couldn't talk about sex. You could talk about religion now you can be like

You know, whatever you can talk you can be like my daughter does only fans. I'm very proud of her Yeah, like you can't talk about I think they're healthy. Dr. Now in school actually shows their dick It's like it's so weird and if you bring up religion, it's like yeah, I do think that that's how I was founded It was I think the guy bill was the deal. Yeah bill. He actually Met with Carl Jung back when you know, whatever and Carl Jung was a guy was like, bro if you don't come up with some sort of spiritual connection or come up with some sort of connection to a reality beyond yourself

or whatever, transpersonal reality, you're doomed. It's like if you hit, you know, if you're over 40, that was Carl Jung's big thing, it's like if you hit 40 and you don't come up with some world view that doesn't have you at the absolute center of the universe, if you can somehow like shift it up to where there's actually something way beyond yourself and kind of humble yourself, he's like, the rest of your life will be way easier if you don't, it's just all going to fall apart. And you're going to go, oh, shit.

Yeah, that's like the key for everybody. I mean, especially in the, you know, it works for drug addicts. I think it would work for everybody. It does. I genuinely think it does. I had a similar thing because because I grew up Catholic, and it was like, you get out and you're like, church is bullshit, it's not the real body of Christ, they figured it out.

And all of a sudden your life starts to fall apart, and it can be bigger or lesser ways, and you're like, same thing, you're like, I've been in charge of the program here, results are less than spectacular, let me try to reorient myself as you know again because they will reorient you more towards like service rather than like trying to self aggrandize and blah blah blah and Right now I'm doing a project where I'm just studying a bunch of autobiographies, and I'm trying to figure out like if there is

I guess I don't know what to call it. I guess it would be like Circumstantial proof or whatever just like anecdotal of like worldviews where it's like, you know me at the center of the world They call it It's like express self is like a type of value system where it's like I Get what I want at the end of the day at the end of the day, you know I'm the boss and there's a lot of people that's the value system Then there's the sacrifice self value system, which is like there's something greater than me I have to live by you know some sort of rules that I don't necessarily set and I'm trying to like look at all these

Autobiographies and try to see like all right who lives is like more of an express self type Who lives of a sacrifice self and then after reading hopefully like 50 or 100 autobiographies being like all right Here's how these ended up basically and everyone probably has like a bit of a mix Yeah, yeah, I do I think that's kind of crazy how that is be a thing where it's like I don't want to get weird but I believe in God and it's like it's not that weird people have been doing it since the beginning of like human consciousness yeah so and I know what you're saying people get worried too it's like oh man like you know I don't want to come off as like a religious not because it is

what I get it people like that people can really hammer that home to the point where it's like all right but yeah, I'm glad for you I think that's a good thing and it's you know It's one of those things where it's like it's hard to monetize where it's like well You know it's easier to set up like well we get to figure out with like pills this that and this it's like well You can also have a spiritual experience, and they're like alright I don't know. I'm not saying it's like a big conspiracy, but like well It's an unfortunate thing of our time when it's such a simple so it's not a simple solution obviously

But it's one of those things where it's like I don't know I think it's regrettable that people are so like oh when I when you're you know you I can say it's like one of Those things that can help your life so tremendously if you find something, you know tailored for yourself You don't have to like sever off your rational mind You just have to like, you know, maybe pluck a little chunk out of it Yeah, just kind of keep the rest and it like, you know, maybe pluck a little chunk out of it. You just kind of keep the rest. And it like, you know, it gives you community. It gives you a sense of like,

there's a bigger thing going on than just what's in my head and like what I think this person thinks about me at the office and like, you know, drug addicts are the most like self-obsessive, selfish people really. I mean, I know that's not, you know, that's not like a kind thing to say about these people that are out on the streets,

but like I was out on the streets and all you give a fuck about is yourself. And whenever I only give a fuck about myself, I end up laying in the gutter. I mean, that's just what happens. And I know that's really hard to say as a guy that I literally wrote a book about my life, how self-obsessive could you get?

I mean, that's as self-obsessive as you can get, really. Only great men write on the box, don't. Yeah, but if you read the book, it's basically me writing about how retarded I am. Yeah, so it's like, sure it's like a, it's about me but it's about how much of a piece of shit I am really so hopefully that like, there's a sense of humility around it, you know. No, I think you did a great job and it really is, it's one of those things where it's like,

you know, whether it's drug addiction or just like You know say you're not addicted drugs that same line of thought It's just not as pronounced because it's like if you know if you're addicted to heroin and meth it's like yeah You're crashing your car you're going to jail so like everyone's easily like yep You're fucking up, but if you're running like a similar, you know I think most people are very very self-sufficient It's just the way we're designed. It's not like a value or like a character flaw. It's just the way we're kind of designed that I think kind of slowly erodes through a series of repeated and larger failures in life where it's like, you know, say you're like I didn't do like heroin or meth or anything, but I've had

definitely decisions blow up in my face that weren't like my whole family like god damn that guy needs to go away for a while but it was enough to be like for me to be like well that fucking all went up in smoke You're like damn it, and you know because you there's that big master of the universe syndrome We're like I got to figure it out. Yeah, when I would like sell weed and all this stuff I would be like smoking weed all day driving around like 30 pounds of weed in my trunk like dude I'm the master of the fucking then just like Relationships fell apart. I was like I'm kind of a fucking loser. I thought I was a man Yeah, so that can happen man when you're just kind of like dude

I don't have to listen to anybody I'm gonna do anything anyone says and it's like when you're young it's very Intoxicating to be in that and then you're like, oh, there's this whole other part of life that has to go and like, you know Even if you don't want a family, it's like being involved in your community blah blah blah Yeah, if you get kind of like self insulated It's easy to have like the wheels come off and it is a funny thing when you're like, I'm the boss here And it's just like your life just dilapidates and you're like, yeah and every problem you like this is a big thing Like, you know the guy that's like 45 that just like fucks his life up every year and it's always like someone else's fault Yeah, so like that's a big thing about

addiction and Where it's like you're just constantly blaming everyone you're at the center of the universe and you're just blaming everyone around you for like all your Problems. So yeah, that's another thing with spirituality is like, I don't know, it just helped me take almost like an overhead view of my life and just be like, hold on, you're the common denominator of all this shit. Potentially you are the cause of these problems.

You are responsible for these problems. And when you are like, okay, well, it just goes back to like, okay, well then I'm not running the show. I'm gonna let someone else run the show. And like, you know, since I, you know, I was like a laborer on and off, either I was homeless or I was like in a halfway house

doing like construction for nine bucks an hour. And, you know, the second I kind of like started changing my life and living this way and having some faith, you know, like I have a career, I have my family back, I'm fucking doing a podcast. Like, I mean, it's just, you know, life really just starts to take off.

And right when I finally admitted, like you are the piece of shit that is causing all these problems. And like, you have to have like a complete psychic change. And, you know, I don't think, you know, a lot of people that are hardcore drug addicts, like if they don't have that psychic change, like it's not really, it's not really if, it's like when are you gonna

go back to that life. You know, you gotta change. The blame's a big one, I've noticed that with people, where they're like, dude, he's a fuckhead, and you're like, that's your problem right now? This dude's being a dickhead to you? I could name 25 other things, dude, yeah. Or like blaming the police, I was so pissed at the,

the police set me up, I sold drugs to an undercover cop, like I got a felony and like I had to go to jail and it like kind of fucked like the next couple years of my life up and I was so fucking pissed at the police and Then I got sober and I like kind of changed everything and I was like you sold drugs to a fucking you sold fake You stole Tylenol from a CVS said they were Norcos sold them to a cop Like you're retarded, you shouldn't have done that. Kind of bunk you, I always thought if you sell fake drugs you don't get as much trouble though.

I think probably, but I was like, get me out of here, I'll plead anything, just get me out of here. And I had a public defender that was probably on methadone and he was like, yo, you're fucked, man. Fuck. Because a lot of people, drug addicts that have rich family or family that will support them,

we'll get them that lawyer, which almost just kicks the can down the road. Yeah. So I called my dad and he was like, yo, stay in jail. Yeah. I was like, can you get me a lawyer? And he was like, fuck no, I'm not getting a lawyer.

And- It'll be good for you to just get, you need to be contained. Yeah. And then actually when I became homeless, I was homeless, did like a year run on skid row and I would like Call my dad and he was like go to fucking jail like do whatever you can to go to jail like You need to go to like my dad went to jail. That's how he like yes over so I got so blessed and you know got to fucking go to jail and

But jail did not like get me sober Jill. Yeah, Jail physically removed me from heroin. I never got physically addicted to heroin ever again. But I still would relapse for a few days here and there. And so jail is not the ultimate solution. But it was a kick in the ass. And sort of scared the fuck out of me. I was around a lot of people where I was like, damn, you're gonna become,

you're gonna be like a jail guy. You're gonna be like a prison guy. And can you be a prison guy? You're not that big, you're gonna like become you're gonna be like a jail guy. Yeah, like a prison guy and like can you be a prison guy? Like you're not that big you're not that tough. Like yeah, can you do it? How bad is it hurt in prison of just like no babes at all? That's the thing that would really fuck me up, dude Well, I was on here Question well, I was really think about the babes. Well, I was on heroin for so long so when you're on heroin you have like no you're like asexual like completely and then when you come off heroin you're on heroin, you're like asexual, like completely. And then when you come off heroin, you're like, you like come in your pants, like immediately. Like if someone like blows in your direction,

like, yeah. So like you're, so you get like ultra horny, which is like, jail's like the worst place to be ultra horny. Exactly. So, I mean, it's fucking weird, man. It's like, there's like a female guard once in a while that comes in, you can smell her

and everyone's like smelling, you know, everyone's like sniffing, puts their nose up. And like, and's like a female guard once in a while that comes in, you can smell her, and everyone's like smelling, you know, everyone's like sniffing, puts their nose up, and like, and then people get weird, people start to get like really weird where they're like, it's like, you're not allowed to horseplay in there, you're not allowed to do like any gay shit or like do any gay voices or anything like that,

or like fuck around, but there's guys that have that like twinkle in their eye. You know? That would kill me, bro. I can't be like, so fucking gay for you, bro. Well, that's like the white, obviously white guy humor is like, let's pretend we're gay. And like Mexicans run the jail, so they're just like,

no gay shit. So you have to be like, the white guys are like, none of that gay shit. Like in front of, like we got to impress the Mexicans, obviously. Like, obviously we want, we all want to like do the gay voice. We're in fucking jail with a bunch of guys. And, but like the Mexicans will call us gay like we can't do that Yeah, it's trouble. Yeah, and like obviously the black guys are like no gay like yeah

They're like number one like you know no gay shit for sure and so it's really sucks for white guys in there You can't fuck around and pretend to be gay at all you can't fuck around you can't you know? You know you can't take the towel and like never speed You can't you know you know you can't take the towel and like never speak It's really hard on white guys in there man It's so funny to have like some dude discovered a swastika and lastly we can't fuck around about gay Yeah, and it's like clearly and then occasionally you do have like your all all white meeting in the shower area where it's like all white Guys, and it's like you can let off some steam and like pretend your day for like 10 seconds our area where it's like all white guys and it's like, you can let off some steam and like pretend your day for like 10 seconds.

But it is funny because like the Mexicans just run everything and the white guys are are allied with the Mexican. So it's like we cannot lose. If we lose this ally ship, like we are fucked. So like we have to. So the Mexicans like you guys got to work out every day for an hour. So it's every day there's like white guys like half assedly like doing jumping jacks and shit. And like making sure the Mexicans are like watching you're like, I'm you know, I'm doing them. Are they pumping iron pretty hard there in the jail? No,

no, but they're like lifting each other, which is kind of gay. You know, they're like, yeah, if there's like a tiny Mexican guy, it's like, okay, obviously he's like for biceps, you know, and like, you have to like use weird shit. You like get under the bunk bed and you're like, you can do like bench with like, we'll get like two Mexican guys on the bunk bed. And then you're like doing like, okay, throw another Mexican guy on there.

And you're like, yeah. He's got a, yeah, you got to squat Danny Trejo. Yeah, exactly. So you get really creative. You get like bat, sometimes you get a trash bag. You fill it up with water. You can do like curls with them. Yeah. So what is it like when the Mexican guys be in being bicep curl does he have like a straight face like yeah?

Cuz you can't be like hardest fuck yeah, you have to look super hard Problem with me yeah There's a lot of like get on my back and like I'm gonna do squats yeah like Yeah, there's a lot for a place where you're not allowed to pretend to be gay, there's like a lot of gay shit going on. And obviously like you're jerking off in a room with like 100 guys at some point and you're not allowed to jerk off.

Like, but it's kind of a don't ask, it's like don't ask, don't tell situation. So you gotta- Be a gentleman about it, don't be like, oh, fuck! Like a guy did, like a guy used to buy heroin from, who I actually was in, he came into the jail and I was like, what's up, man?

And I was like, do you have any heroin? And he was like, no, I'm in jail, but he got caught jerking off. He was like a seven year old black dude, super cool guy, but they rolled him up. They were like, no jerking off, you know? Damn. He was, he did it, he tried to be polite.

He did it like 5 a.m. but like the early birds woke up and they caught him jerking off. So fuck I'd rather be caught by my parents a hundred times. I have yeah be in jail and have these like you took it off No, I did it. It's like the scariest and obviously, you know, you've jerked off before you realize like, you know When you're a kid and like you're like you're listening for your brothers and sisters and shit You're like so this is like scary because if someone hears you like they could stab you you know Oh my god, not really

I mean everyone knows like you got to do it So you just do it in the middle of the night when you wake up and like no one really you know But every night if you ever wake up you hear like the jingle of like many men quietly masturbating It's like the roar of the ocean yeah, and exactly. It kind of like helps you sleep and everything. That's crazy, dude. I never thought about that aspect of it. I mean, obviously, I figured, I thought you could just like hang your sheets over your bed and be like, I'm about to jerk off, bro.

No, because there's like a man on your bunk, you know, so unless you have like an arrangement with him or something, you know, I don't, listen, I'm not Mr. Prison. I'm not Mr. Jail like I sure feel like it could be different in other dorms, but like No, my dorm like it was kind of like a you can't even show your dick unless you're in the shower Like if you got that was like an instant boobop like if you like if your dick popped out Like in the door. Yeah, that makes sense or if you like talked about dicks or just like, you know, you just but in the shower Obviously, you're all naked. You're showering together looking at everyone's dick. So you do whatever. Yeah. Yeah No talking dicks, bro. No. No, you can't talk about dicks because what do you do with morning wood in jail?

Oh my god. It's just like yeah, man. It's tough You gotta lay there you gotta just lay there, you know And sometimes you got it's like cuz I was in the school dorm where I got to go to school So like like I guess I'm gonna be late to school You know cuz I can't have someone look see my see my dick. Yeah, my heart dick. Yeah, so Fuck bro. Yeah, and And then like meth will come in sometimes which like makes everyone horny and gay to be honest Yeah, like that that becomes pretty tough because like people are tweaked out and you know. Damn.

Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those things, that is tough. I do understand going there and getting cleaned, but yeah, I think you're right, there is an extra layer. And I feel like there could be, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like there could be a more nuanced approach in jail once you have those guys as a captive audience. Like how's the programming?

Because I know there's like T-seat, like therapeutic community and all that stuff. Yeah. Did you have that when you're in there? Well, there's like AA meetings that come in and we had actually had like meditation classes But you go there like half the guys like our think it's like gay They're like this is gay and then they like make noises and shit while you're trying to meditate and there's like I was like You know like kumbaya and like Mocking the lady came in to jail to teach a bunch of guys

that might murder her yoga and meditation and you're fucking being an asshole. And they're like, oh. So I mean, listen, there's a lot of low IQ people in jail. True, yeah. But yeah, obviously there could be a better approach. I was in there, probably 99% of the people I interacted with were either drug addicts or alcoholics.

This is not a good system. This is not working. Clearly, this is a drug problem. Even the violent criminals, it's like, a lot of them were just on meth or drunk and beat the shit out of their wife or something. So there's foundational issues of mostly addiction and alcoholism, so yeah, we should address.

And that doesn't mean, hey, you shot a guy in the head and you were on meth, we're gonna put you into a therapeutic program. If you're violent, you gotta probably do some time, but there should be, I was really surprised because one day they just let you out, and it's like, what the fuck do you think I'm gonna do? I'm just out now? And it's right by Skid Row,

and they let you out at like 2 a.m. And of course I'm gonna go do heroin and smoke crack. Of course there has to be a better approach but like that, you know, there was like the 2020 stuff or like the decriminalization of crime basically and like that's not working, you know Just being like we're just not gonna send people to jail for like doing violent crime. Like that's not really a good approach So they're walking that back pretty hard right now That's just like Bill Clinton here like tough on crime Democrats are in our near future being at the DNC They were like Kamala was a tough prosecutor into Kamala was a tough prosecutor

Like I'm from Oakland, California like where she was, you know, she was the DA of San Francisco and she was fucking too hard I mean she was like sending parents to jail for like if their kids miss school and shit. Damn. Yeah, she was hard man, but uh Clearly like they're doing this like really quick 180 like this bitch will put you in jail their kids miss school and shit. Damn. Yeah she was hard man but uh clearly like they're doing this like really quick 180 like this bitch will put you in jail like vote for her and like I don't think it's gonna work I mean we see what's going on like I don't you can't do that quick of a 180 on that shit but uh yeah well no she was chill she did she was hard I think then she was like I'm gonna chill as hell. Yeah then she got really chill I guess but now she might flip back and be like look Well, I don't know in the gap has like I don't think she has like a

Creed or like, you know, she just it was really hot at the time to like be super hard-ass, you know Tough on crime like, you know the 90s the Clinton, you know They're actually going all that so she just was kind of going with the times and then the times change, you know And then it goes to like okay. I'm gonna bail people out for like burning down Minneapolis so I actually you know I know you were in Portland I actually moved to Portland in June 2020 oh god great month to move to Portland yeah what happens I I kept thinking the Chas was in Portland that's yeah that was Seattle that fucked me up that was my whole five minutes open and coming out I was funny fun of these guys forget

having like lesbians take control of their city for six months. Well no, Chaz was like all of downtown Portland and I had a black girlfriend. Oh so they set it up like that. Yeah and I went there with a black girlfriend, not a weird month to move there with a black girlfriend to Portland and her dad was like, don't, you can't take my daughter to Port, like I don't want her around all those crazy white people burning down the city It was it was a crazy time but Portland school man, Portland school I liked it so you went there though and it was like because people had now are like damn Is it like still fucked up and I was like no, no, it was fine

It was like it was as intense as the jazz there in 2020. It was fucking intense It was intense like spiritually like everyone was just like I was running into people I like left because there was too many like guys that like, dressed like security guards that were like, I'm they, them, like you gotta call me they. And I was like, you look like a dude, you know? Like it's really hard for me to do that. There was just a lot of like, it was just really hard like that.

And like, you know, I, people were just not chill at all. And it got, it went super far. And then now there's kind of like an overcorrection, and it's kind of chill now, I think. People, and honestly, like you guys play a big role, and I'm not, you know. I mean, like, I don't wanna sound insane right now, but like, you know, podcasts like yours,

like you guys kind of like brought about this like spiritual awakening of like, hey, we just have to like, we can say retarded, like we can say retarded like we can you know we can you know and I think comedy really is like saving America this is gonna sound stupid but like I appreciate that man yeah well the problem I saw with a lot of the stuff was like you're a college you're trying to get pussy exactly girls are like on this wild shit of like you know pretty much they're doing it for Instagram and it's like, you know, maybe they genuinely believe I shouldn't say like it's all fake but it's like They're doing a thing to appease some other force. This is a giant force in your life and you're like

Yeah, I'm a fucking they them and it's like I'm trying to get some fucking pussy I'm not trying to get frozen out or labeled as like you're like a boomer or whatever people say No, everything comes down to I'm trying to get pussy Because I've realized that in my head like every decision I've ever, if there was no pussy, I wouldn't shower. I would shower once a week or something. Just every decision that a man makes really comes down to that.

So yeah, there was just a lot of that. And there was a lot of, even when you guys, I was listening to your podcast and I was like, can I even tell people that I'm listening to this shit after the Shane shit? And then now it's like to get pussy, you're like, I listen to the Matt and Shane podcast. Flip, there's girls. The girlfriends have come and wives are coming to common wives are coming girlfriends have come. Yeah. Yeah, there was a weird

That was a weird thing. I think I don't know what it was man because everyone thought they were doing like the right thing They're like, yeah, I'm on the right side of history now And it's like the one thing I will give the like wild ass SJWs from you know, they did all that stuff for a long time They did, you know, you can you can hate this but they did raise a lot of issues into the public consciousness Yeah, they kind of really like cracked everyone's head up with a hammer They're like think about this and everyone's like fuck you guys. I'm not thinking about this So they did do it you know if you look back at like the last few years is like people are a lot more Kind of like the average person is way more forward-thinking than they were you know, in like the 90s and, you know, early 2000s.

So they did put a lot of like, you know, things into people's heads, like, you know, if you're black it's like kind of weird and way different than being white and be like shut up and get a job. Like it's like that now people have, I think from all that stuff have a more kind of nuanced approach to reality with like social issues. But they're like what they say to do about it, their solutions are so bad. They're so- Yeah, their solutions are really bad

and really hurting the people they're trying to help. Exactly. But like, certainly like, listen, it's really good that we're thinking about these things. And, you know, I kind of already did because I'd been to jail and I was noticing patterns. I was like, damn, like, you know, I went to jail for like five days

when I sold that Percocet to the cop or whatever. My friend Toning Taylor, named Toning, very odd name, but I was in a midnight mission with him. He did like five years for like the same shit, and he was a black guy. And I was like, God damn. And he was like, what?

And he was a black Israelite dude. So he liked me because I'm half Jewish, and we'd had Jew talk, you know? Yeah, that's just how I was. Yeah. And I was like, he really opened my eyes to some shit. I was like goddamn man, so yeah They get crushed black kids get crushing yeah pretty hard Yeah, so I was so it was but it's harder for us once we get there

We can't do gay stuff so kind of the inverse of yeah inverse of real life. Yeah, no my friend was in a one of those like kind of I don't know I've never seen anything like this, but it wasn't So it was technically the part of it was a halfway house The other part were for like repeat offense people who violated parole There's just this giant warehouse in Philly and you would just just go to this warehouse and just live in these rooms of like 40 dudes and wasn't it was technically a jail, but it wasn't any like you didn't go to like dependent entry It's just like this holding thing Specifically for parole violators if they were had to do like six months or something yeah

And he said it was run the whole place was was just run by like, there was like these black Muslim ladies in charge of it, and he was like, dude for real I don't want to cry racism, but he's like, this is so hard to be white in this place. He's like, you could just like, I could bring him in clothes and stuff, I could bring him in anything really, cigarettes, all this stuff, I'd give it to a trash bag to this black Muslim lady, she would go through it, and he was was like dude the drugs here are rampant because you can just stitch heroin into like the waistband of Sweatpants and they they're just like they're just running a mocking here where it's like there's Drugs are being filled everyone's just making money off this place. Yeah, but he was like and then you just get sent here against your will

He's like you're trying to clean. He's like it's just party time Yeah, so black Muslim lady seemed to run the Philly Airport. Yeah, I at the Philly Airport like a week ago. Yeah, they got a nice stronghold No, but they were killing it. They like got me a refund on my flight and shit. So yeah, they're dude They're fucking sweet. It's funny. Yeah, cuz if you're like if you're like a white dude just kicking around I always assume like black Muslim ladies don't like white people You just you see that here and you're like I could see them not being a huge fan of me Yeah, but you get to know them. They're very sweet. Yeah, they're chill. They're very cool. Yeah. Yeah Another thing about the whole like awakening thing was like my felony

There was some real criminal justice reform where like I actually am NOT a felon anymore. Oh, that's cool So like they kind of did you know and that makes sense like that's good like hey, I've behaved for seven years like Can we get rid of the felon? Seven years is a good number too. Yeah, like can I, it's a Jubilee. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Jewish Jubilee. Yeah, so I was like, you know,

can I get a job at Walmart finally? Like, you know, can I not be a felon? And so good shit like that happened. But then there was like criminal justice reform went like a little too far where it was like, you can just like bonk ladies on the head with like a bat and not go to jail. Like that's not good, you know.

Well, no one wanted to be the guy locking people up. It wasn't like politically good No, but I guess now it is It's because I can become the big like hero because before we had a we had a guy who the fuck was he Larry Krasner? The DA is Philly. He was like bad. Yeah, they were called him. Let him go Larry That was and I knew like back then like I was like I knew dudes are like so we'd stuff He's like all let him go Larry. That's dude. We love Larry Creser like it's the wrong guys being like this guy rules Yeah, but yeah, it's like it becomes like if you're a DA and you have political aspirations And it becomes like not politically cool to lock people up

You're like let's just not lock people up for now and the city Completely goes into disarray because you kind of maybe want to become like a congressperson Yeah, yeah. That's like, yeah, you can't really, you know, people out here doing, that's the thing, isn't it like in jail, it's like 90% of the crimes are committed by like, literally like 5% of the population

across like race and all that stuff. Yeah, they say that, yeah. And shoplifting especially. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, yeah, snatch these people up and if they're on drugs, it's like, okay, let's figure out a situation where we maybe mandate them to a long-term treatment center.

But we have to really look at this like, hey, we're not just trying to check boxes here. We're really trying to change this person's life and give them a life worth living. And we should really, I needed purpose. I was a finished carpenter, so eventually I got out and I had a job that not only paid a decent wage, but it gave me fulfillment. And I was like like I'm building things. I'm helping people. I'm like making beautiful, you know

I'm making houses beautiful and all that like we need to like find what people are passionate about what they can excel at and Like really set them up for a life where it's like hey you can afford a one-bedroom apartment right out of here Like you dude, you can feel good about you It's like you're not just gonna go get a job at Chipotle and want to kill yourself and then like you know so We just have to really I mean this is like a spiritual problem that is plaguing America like if you go to any city Like I live in Oakland, California, and it's like you know it's totally fucked up Yeah, I agree, and it is sad too when you take all these people in jail, and it's scary They all like tattoos and like career criminals, but I do believe at the root of it

It's just like there was a they were once a kid in a very loveless environment. Yeah, obviously like there's there's That's like a continuum obviously there's some people who like got it, but it was there's like other bad stuff mixed in but then there's people who like Just never ever in their life had like anybody Care about them at all yeah, and that's like you're that's I think that's the real root issue when you're dealing with people like You know jail anything really Yeah, it's like dude How the fuck and you're gonna try to correct that and like an environment that you know you obviously need to like take precautions for

Society it's really sad. It's one of those things is like very very sad, and I think there is a Hopefully we'll figure it out Hopefully we'll figure out a way because you can't go to kumbaya and be like Just give him a guitar and send him out there. He's bang someone in the head with a hammer. You're like damn it Yeah, boy like we're doing this thing just give him a guitar and send him out there. So you just bang someone in the head with a hammer and you're like, god damn it. Yeah, but we're doing this thing where we're just giving people apartments in San Francisco and then they're on fentanyl so they just die in their apartment immediately.

So it's like, we can't really do that. I understand the argument, homeless, what's the solution? Home. Give them home. And it's like, OK, but if you're addicted to fentanyl, you're just going to be alone and OD on fentanyl. So yeah, man, there has to be a more comprehensive approach

and people are like, oh, it's gonna cost so much money. And it's like, San Francisco spends over a billion dollars a year on homelessness and it's just gotten worse and worse and worse and worse. So it's like, I don't think money's the issue. We have the money, we just have to redirect it into a way that is actually productive, but right now it's so set up to just like,

you can just launder so much money if you start a nonprofit. You know, it's so easy to start a nonprofit. It's like I hand out crack pipes, give me a $2 million contract. It's, you know, you just have to rethink all this shit. Nonprofits are good. I didn't realize that, Alex. I worked at one before when I was in social work school, and I was like, this is like... And it wasn't like out and out, like a total scam, but it was kind of like dude you guys can tighten this thing up It becomes incentivized to be like just have someone show up sign a box So yeah, but you could have like five appointments and one to make this guy's life easier like we get 200 bucks every time Yeah You dirty motherfucker yeah, but it's uh yeah, I don't know I've remained hopeful

I think I think something will happen, but it is weird This is the most is this like the most homeless people we've ever had like like I'd imagine historically because I know know there was always homeless people, but now it's like, you get out of cities and you're like, dude, this is, it's like younger people just hit the rails, dude. And it's like, you see guys in like the 30s or 20s and you're like, bro, like what the fuck, man? Yeah. I think there is something to it, man. There's that like spiritual malaise where it's like, there's no point to anything, what's the point? I'm never gonna be, you know, X, Y, and Z. And like, nobody has that. It's hard to find like the joy in a like, you know,

a relatively simple life. Like you're saying, like, I'm doing, I can go, I can take pride in my work, I can do my thing. Now there's just, it's just like, everyone's so atomized. There's not like, oh, I'm part of a nice community, I'm part of, everything's just off on like a, their own individual journey that, you know, typically when you're just by yourself,

it just leads to like intense frustration and despair anyway yeah yeah there's a lack of hope yeah what's this oh yeah it rose 12% from 2022 to 2023 that's a it's pretty bad right that's pretty bad that's a gigantic leap it rose 64% in San Francisco from the year 2016 to 2022 and in at the same time spending on homelessness increased by 500%. Yeah, it's crazy, man. And there's no hope. We live in a time when it's like, you can work really hard,

you can get that raise, you can get that promotion, and it's like, you're still not buying a house. Like, you can't start a family, people aren't getting married, people aren't having kids. It's tough, hopefully we come out of this, hopefully whoever wins the presidency, either one of them just makes this shit better You know will they do it probably not?

Definitely I tell everyone buy buy your book your books awesome, dude Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the books good smile if you can't afford it hit me up I'll send you a copy or I'll send you like a PDF. I am NOT a big reader I know that's a surprise. I wrote a book, but like I can't read. If you can't read, you're looking for the audio book. It's not here yet, but if you buy a copy of the book, it will encourage my publisher to push for the audio book. And then I'll like send you a link to the audio book for free. If you show me that you bought the book. So the publisher is weary about doing the audio book.

They're weary. It's just like, it's a different legal setup with the contract and it's just gonna take time, I don't know. But if it does good sales, they'll push for it faster and then I'll send you a LimeWire link to the fucking audiobook or something. I'll figure it out, but yeah, we're gonna try to push that through quickly. Nice, man.

Yeah, tell them to knock it off. Tell them let's do it. Dude, just give me recording time. You can record it in like 20 hours, man. I know, I know, yeah. Come and knock it off. Yeah can record it in like 20 hours, man. I know I know yeah Yeah, but it's like it's just a different, you know, it's legal Agent shit, you know, I don't know who knows

Well, dude, thank you so much for coming to this man. It's an honor man. Thank you so much. Thank you. Shit it. Yeah