Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast - Ep 627 - No-Nog (feat. Joe Alto)

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

Support the D.A.W.G.Z. @ patreon.com/MSsecretpod Support Joe and get OFF the Nog @ https://www.joinrelay.app/ Go See Matt Live @ mattmccusker.com/dates Go See Shane Live @ shanemgillis.com Go See Lemaire Lee Live @ https://lemairelee.fun/ Go See Shawn Gardini Live if you want  @  https://www.shawngardini.com/live yo0o0. Little bonus to start the week for you guys. We got Joe Alto in the stu to talk about the dangers of Nog. If you're struggling with using/abusing yourself check out his app Relay. Link above. Please enjoy. God Bless. ps another ep is coming later this week Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wow, wow, Wes. We fired up. Fired up. Joe Alto, how you doing, brother? What's up, man? Welcome to the fucking gas, dude. Joe Alto. We met online.

So we met, I'll just say it. We, you messaged me, and we linked up based on not looking at porn. Yeah. By the way, I have a raw question. Yeah. How crazy did you think I was when I sent you those emails? Not that crazy. Okay.

Okay. I didn't think you were that crazy. Okay. It's like crazy. crazy messages, you just know them when you see them. You know what I mean? Like people, when crazy internet people will hit you with, it's usually kind of scattered. I saw that and I was like, oh shit, it's kind of sick.

Okay. So I didn't know. I get crazy vibes. And usually there's like, because you don't see every message. But they'll usually be like 19 messages before those ones. Like some in all caps. And you go, fuck. Yeah.

Crazy guy. Yeah. But no, I just saw it. And I was like, damn, that's kind of sick. Okay. So. And again, just to like, you know, I'm sure you've known from listening, but it's like, for me, I have mixed views on the whole, well, let's say like the approach, the online approach or, you know, people take into real life of like, you're either a porn consumer or you're a non-porn consumer. Porn consumer is very simple.

Non-porn consumer is kind of complex because it's like, there's like complete nofap over here, which I'm like, that's just impossible. Sure. You can try it if you want. I find it to be utterly impossible for myself. And then there's like no porn at all. Then there's no masturbation. There's like hard mode, no fap, soft mode. You know, all that's, I'm sure you're aware of all that stuff.

So I always, for me, I always try to not take a super dogmatic approach, if that makes sense. Where it's like if you fucking do it, you're done, you're a piece of shit. But recognizing that, I'm like, I really want to get this out of my life. Sure. And I have. Thank God. for now. But the, yeah, please, please. But I know I've done a couple, you know, like hotel weekend trips by myself are the absolute ultimate test. So I've passed a couple of those. But yeah, so tell

me about, so you have, you have an app, right? Yeah, yeah, you work for an app. Yeah, I work for an app. It's called Relay. What is it called again? Relay. Relay, got you. Relay health. Yeah, and it's a porn addiction recovery app, right? So, yeah, the guy started it probably, I think it's been five years now. we've been up and running? How many people have used it? How many people have used it? I know right now we have a, there's about $4,000 in the app right now. Nice.

More than that have used it, you know, in the history of the app. But we have a pretty good user base. And it's mostly guys. Yeah. And I'll say this too because you do whenever, every time around the, the, let's say, masturbation, porn discussion, whenever you're like anti or like, hey, maybe not the best move, you do get these guys. I'm sure you've dealt with them who are like, oh, yeah, dude, porn fucking rules.

you guys are being babies. And I just want to stage for the record. Totally fair. You can do that if you want. But that is the male equivalent to like when girls are like, my vibrator is it's kind of like, it's kind of lame.

Be like, yeah, like you know, my vibrator. It's like, okay, like enough of that. Yeah, no, absolutely. Come on, we don't want to hear about it. I want to bring back, my dad used to always be like, if you mentioned porn, what are you fucking weirdo?

Same here. The fuck's wrong with you. Like it was a genuine threat. No, to this day, my dad is, is a I've asked him bluntly I go dad

have you ever what was like your history with porn he's like never done and I'm a man swear

I swear to God my dad's been like never jacked off that's so never looked at porn well to be and it's fucking gross because he's like

I got your mom I'm like yeah oh god okay ew that's the worst yeah no but that's like

that's the honest to God what he's told me also though back then there was a barrier. If you wanted porn back then, I don't know how you're, my dad's like in his

70. Yeah, my dad's 65. If you wanted porn, they had to like go to like adult bookstores. But also there was like a bunch of guys trying to blow you the whole time if you wanted to get porn. Like it was for real. If you were yeah, yeah, yeah. Like porn shops

was associated with like underground sexual. Gross. hedonists. No. That's kind of the deal. Like if you were even around there, it's like, yo, what the fuck are you? You know, so. Yeah, like, yeah, you could get you.

Especially back then. They didn't have sex ed. Yeah, no. What, mister? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it was always an adventure. It's an adventure. It was different.

It was different. I'll never forget. My dad, this is like really bad, but I remember he went to buy, there's this guy who was like fixed lawnmowers, and the guy happened. He would sell porn, like VHS and all this stuff. He was selling one like Craigslist. So my dad went there to get his lawnmower. We'd always be like, yeah, right, dude, you're buying porn.

I swear to fuck, the fuck out of him. Yeah, fucking porn. But he was there, and the guy was like, yo, hold on. I got this guy, he's buying it, watch a VHS is off me. He's trying to fucking watch him. He asked me if you can watch him in my basement. I'm like, man, get the fuck out of here.

The dude comes out. It was a dad from one of the girls in our grade school. Like, 23 kids in our class. It was a small Catholic school. And I remember he, like, was telling. I remember all the dad's laughing. We're at, like, an eighth grade dance. They're all laughing.

And I was like, what are you guys laughing at? They're like, I forget it about it. And then later he told me, he's like, yeah, we saw Bobava's dad trying to watch VHS's with the guy who fixed our lawnmower. And I was like, bam. It's gross. But, and again, it's like, to your point, it's with the app, it's different for us. It's more, it's everywhere. It's, we're completely tapped into it.

It's a, it's a different thing. We got, we were basically all like crack babies with porn, but, you know, we got born into this. You know, we kind of hooked in. So how, in terms of the app, what is the, what's like, the guiding philosophy. Yeah, guiding philosophy would be you don't have a porn problem, you have a pain problem. A lot of guys have a difficult time, even understanding what that is. Like, it's just difficult.

Maybe you have some conscious moment where you do realize that, yeah, I'm using this as a baby blanket. But that's just also like a very difficult endeavor to deal with by yourself. So, yeah, it's like you have a pain problem. You've associated at some point in your history with porn, you start off and it's great. innocent, you start looking at it around whatever, 11 or 12 years old and you use it for whatever purposes, right? Like I said, because it's naked chicks. It really does start as simple as like naked chicks. Naked chicks. You're not going to see a naked chick when you're 12 for quite a long time more than likely. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. He really shouldn't. Yeah, knock on wood.

Yeah. There's always that one guy though in like the eighth grade where you're just like, holy shit. Like you did that. But that's just that one guy. I was never that guy. No, no. You probably weren't either. No. The guy probably also had pubs when he was like, fucking four. So, but yeah, he, uh, no, but so you, you start looking at it when you're young and then at some point in your maturation process as a young man,

whatever type of disappointment that you go through, right? It could be in sports, it can be with the ladies, it can be with, you know, get a bad grade, whatever. Really like simple shit. Yeah, but you just go back. Yeah, you get an F on your paper and you feel like shit and you know porn's going to make you feel good. So you do it. And then

you just unlock this crazy circuitry in your brain that it connects any type of, like you're literally training yourself. You're like a dog. Like you're training yourself to associate pain with porn and it gets unconscious. And then you have all these like 35 year old guys who have very stressful lives, right? Like we all do. And now it's so unconscious. Have a bad day at work.

Maybe it's the muscle memory of driving home. You get into an argument with your wife. You notice a cavity. All the shit. you just go to porn. Porn, porn, porn. Yeah, and it was funny, too, because it's like, you know, your parents, I remember, like, dude, we got caught with porn a couple times in her house and they'd be like, what the fuck? They'd be so mad.

Yeah. I remember being a kid being like, dude, I wish they lax up about this shit. Like, what the fuck is their problem? Because there's a kid, you're going like, no, guys, this shit fucking rules. Like, I don't think you guys understand. Like, this is the best. Yeah. But I grew up, it was like, there was literally like 16 kids on the properties.

me and my cousin's family's right next to each other and like a VHS would come with someone would get one and it would fucking cycle through and everyone would be like I remember being like I remember knowing there was a VHS across the street of my cousin's house and just being like I wouldn't see it for like five days but I'd be like yes you're thinking about it so whole fucking amped yeah exactly but like you were saying it's like that that young during those young formative stages you're you're just like you know you don't realize how geeked you know you're an adult and you're like I can calm myself now it's like you didn't always have that. So it's like, most of the adults probably don't even still today, but it's like,

I barely do myself. But it's like as a kid, when something hits you, it fucking rocks you. You're getting so upset. If someone's like, you fucking loser, you're like, ah, like it, it fucks, it kills you. And you have, you know, you have the porn, the porn, the porn. And then, you know, finally, I remember college. And it's like, I can download as much porn as I fucking want on my computer. This is this shit. And then, you know, it goes on and on and on. And yeah, it just really, you, I think you do, personally me, I've hit a point where I remember just thinking like, yeah, I just don't, it would be nice to not deal with that. But you get bored of it at some point.

Like, yeah, you start, like, honestly, and I think it, that's part of it. Like, I know at least for me it was. I don't know if it's boredom. Yeah. That might not be the best word. But yeah, you're just like, what the fuck am I doing? Well, yeah, it's, yeah. Boy, that's a good distinction.

It's not necessarily boredom. It's just kind of like, oh, man, how much longer. It's just, you know, I'm giving. this to this fucking thing, which again, then you like look at the porn industry as like an apparatus and it's like, it's really sad. Like, you know, you can say, I don't even want to think about that shit. But it is. It's like, you know, you have these, let's just say mostly women, although the guy's stories,

I watch a lot of soft white on her belly. So I watch a lot of these stories of people like in the, you know, porn industry and all this stuff. And it's almost always a sad origin story where it's like a girl was sexually abused or this or that. Bad family life, yeah. Always pretty bad. And then the guy, their male counterparts is never exactly great either for the most part.

So it's like you have these people and it's, this might be a bad way to put about, this is how like my mind kind of like, you know, organizes it. It's like you have these people who are like, you know, in some way have caught a very raw deal in society. Like imagine a beggar who's like, beggars usually are beggars because it's just all the shit got fucked up in their lives and now the beggar. And if you walk by them and just fucking jerked off on them, it's like, that's kind of how I started feeling. It's like they're not obviously beggars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've been dejected by very important parts of their life in a very intimate way. And they get fed into this machinery that very clearly rips them apart. Yeah. Female porn stars do not age well. No. There's been like four. And the only reason they did is because they became movie stars and they got to like get out of the porn life.

But the people in there are being grinding. it to a pulp in like a way that's hard to comprehend. And then I always just felt doubly disgusting being like and just jerking all. It was just like I get to a point where you're like, dude, I just, again, it's not like a powdered wig where I'm kind of being like evil. It's just like I get it. I totally get it. I just, man, I'd love to not have that on my conscience or just like you were saying with like masking pain problems for being like I'm going to go fucking jerk off now. Well, yeah, and I think

I don't know. I mean, there's obviously still activities that I still like to do that I started when I was a kid, right? I still like sports. I still, you know, some other shit. But there's also like a lot of things I did as a kid that I don't do anymore

because I realize, I don't know, just you get over. Not kid, yeah, I'm not a kid. Yeah, I'm not a kid. Saying porn, you're in a way saying porn is for kids. It's a kid thing. It's a kid thing. Like frosted flicks.

Yeah. Just like... I know what you mean. It's baby shit. Yeah. Well, yeah. And you get to... The porn is for babies.

It kind of is. It is a... It's a juvenile response. But again... The frosted flick thing was fine. I didn't make that joke. But it's true. But I get what you're saying.

And again, the problem is... problem is with this, it's not, it can come off as a holier than now thing. And it's like, bro, anything but. And that's, you hear that with a lot of the guys who are, you know, pretty, I don't know if it's like staunchly, but yeah, they'll, they'll make the religious argument. They're like, no, porn's fine. Like, the only reason why you don't think porn's fine is because yes. You grew up Catholic or you grew up. Yeah, it's all that guilt. You have excess of guilt and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And we both grew up Catholic. And you got that. You definitely got that to some degree. For sure. I remember jerking off

on Easter and being like, I'm going to hell. You want to talk about dedication of the game? We're all, if you're a porn user, you're in the crypts. The Lord forgave, you know, he died for your sins and you just decided to... I didn't understand that part. I was just like, the guy died, but there's God, he's going to punish my

ass and I'm going to fucking hell. You're fucking done. But here's... He's still might. He still might when you get to the prayer the gates of like, Matt. Remember that one time he jacked off on Easter when you were 13? That was it. So I would gladly say, take me. My bad.

I'm going down. Here's the thing. Here's the thing with that, though. When people go, oh, that's just excess Catholic guilt, la, la, la, la. It's like, okay, I hear you. But then it's like, I feel like a lot of people who would be against that tend to, not always, but tend to be of a more like politically liberal kind of, you know, leaning. Yeah, I think that's.

And who's more guilt? They're the guiltiest of all. So it's like, dude, don't come at me for my guilt. We'll talk guilt. That's a good point. And it's like maybe you should feel good. That's, that's a get older. It's like that's another thing, dude.

There's, I, I, yeah, I think we probably should feel more guilty about shit. Especially once you have, here's the thing, too. When you have kids and you have a wife. Exactly. You actually should feel guilty about things. If you're in the bathroom at night jerking off. Yeah. That's an understandable response to go.

Yes. I think I'm fucking missing the market. Yeah, you're throwing one in the toilet. Four hours ago, you were literally just telling your kid to take a shit on that toilet. It's weird. It is weird. It's a weird thing. And if they walk in, God forbid, kids can have dreams, kids can wake up.

You're fucked. You've literally altered their life trajectory. And I would say a negative way. Unless you convince them it was all just a dream. Go ahead. Don't ever bring this up ever again. Don't tell your mom. I'll fuss you.

So, yeah. No, no, no. That's always the thing that strikes me weird is like guys are usually, usually jacking off in their house. Yeah. Married men. Yep. And it is weird. Like, you associate all these.

memories with your house or you do things with your kids in your house, right? Like I said, like you give them a bath. And then in that same bathroom, you're fucking, you know, yeah, it's weird. And you should feel guilty about that. Yeah, that's fair. I think you should. That's not ideal. Yeah, it's not ideal. You know, I don't think you, and here's the deal. That's different than being like you're a complete piece of shit. Like, you're not a complete piece of shit. You're a little piece of shit, right? Yeah, a little bit. But no, no. And that's, That's the thing that a lot of, you know, guys like me and you who grew up in that space in the Catholic space. Yeah, you just think that you're a piece of shit.

But that's not even, I'm not going to get into like the whole like theology of it. But that's not even necessarily what the church says, right? It's like you're not, you're not necessarily going to hell. You're not like. Yeah. And that's the thing, yeah, we talked about is like a lot of the resistance is like a good, bad binary where it's like if you do this thing, you're bad. if you do this, you're good. Yeah, that's such a shitty way of approach.

Yeah, it's more like, here's what I'm up to right now. I could be a little bit better. What's some of the stuff I have to shed? And, dude, I will say it's like, you know, again, with just like the in a marriage, but if you're a guy who's by himself, you're young, you're like, you're trying to figure things out. It's like, yeah, it's not, obviously it's not the end of the world if you rub one out so you can fall asleep. That's, I agree. I really, I honestly got it's hard working in this space.

You get a lot of, like you were kind of listing out a little bit ago. Like you have like your purists. Like never do this. Yeah. And like there is, I mean, because there obviously is a difference between being married and being single. Yeah. There is. I think why it's good to try to shore this up now when you're a single guys.

Because you're going to, so many guys think that when they get married, well, I would say like a lot, I mean, especially like the religious people I know, a lot of them think when they get married, this is just going to be like the magic pill that makes them stop. And it's like, no, you're just going to do it fucking more. Right. Because being married, you're more stressed when you're married. You're more stressed when you have kids. So if anything, you're making your life more of a pain in the ass. Yep.

The down payment on the house. Yeah, that's exactly right. You're not trying to have sex. This is bullshit. It's not supposed to be this way. Exactly. To the toilet. Yep.

That's exactly right. 2 a.m. We're doing it. Has she sleep and monitor her breathing? Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, man. So you're like, yeah, you just introduce more, yeah, you just introduce more stress in your life. So I think it is good for the guys who are single to try to get this shit unlocked now.

Because it's really, dude, it's the fucking worst to bring that into a marriage. I did. And it fucking sucked. Oh, yeah. It was terrible. No, and it's bad. And this is the thing. Again, my point is more so it's like, yeah, it's not like, okay, there's this, you know,

body, like, looking over you being like, bad, good, bad, good. Because I get the urge to be like, fuck you, man. I don't, I can just not subscribe to this shit at all. And it's like, for sure, you can do that. My argument is long term, you can, like, I did it when I was younger being like, stuff's bullshit. I don't give a fucking do it. And then you get older and you're like, no, so it was something to that, I think.

Yeah. Well, it's just like a, it's almost like a spirit that controls you. Yeah. Right. It's like, it's just, this is controlling me. It's taking up so much of like my mental bandwidth. I'm constantly thinking about it when I'm at work, right? I'm thinking about, oh, man, I can't wait until I get home.

Or it's just this, like, vibration throughout your day. And it really does grip you. And I think, you know, especially like in all these, like, I don't know, kind of like lame, like modern male movements. They're like, I want to be independent, right? Yeah. I don't want shit to. I want to be like, I want to be above all that, right?

Like, and yeah, those same guys that were probably also not even realizing how much porn controls their life. Yeah. Or the pornographic in general, right, is controlling their lives. So just like I said, always constantly thinking about it or, you know, even just like, you know, anytime you see a good looking chick walk by, you're just fucking hounding. You're good. That's my brother, puts it best. He's like, even if you're not looking at porn, you can still be goon. Absolutely.

Or you're on Instagram. You're scrolling. If you're scrolling, if you're scrolling, if you're scrolling, my brother claims if you're scrolling, you're goinging. Yeah. If you're sitting there and you're in the scroll, you're gooned. A non-orgasmic goon. You're just gooned.

Yeah, you're completely just like, oh, yeah, you're mindless. And it's like the babes are coming. You know what you're doing. You're in your hamster cage and you're fucking hitting your little switch. And you're going, oh, the fucking babes. Well, who am I? You know. That's exactly right.

So it's like you're kind of pulling that lever. And there's a lot of things, dude. Like, I see these stupid fucking YouTube. videos where like in this like male kind of I don't know space

where it's like porn or like lust is like the fun like if you can get over lost like you are like no that's the fucking actually easiest thing I think to get over as a guy like for me you know once I got over porn

I started and I'm still like trying to figure out all like the deeper shit that makes me a piece of shit like my I'm fucking angry all the time I am angry all the time. I'm yelling all the time. I have a lot of like anger and wrath. That's much, that is, for me, that's been way more difficult to try to figure out than lust.

Right. So for a lot of the times, these guys will spend our whole fucking lives just trying to figure out this like porn issue or this lust issue, this whatever, right? And it's, we spend our whole lives trying to get over that and we haven't even got. we're not we're not we don't have the bandwidth to deal with more like gutterol yeah problems like like like for guys like a lot like the anger the dickishness right you know whatever you don't really you don't really think about this stuff

at least I didn't at all till I had kids because then like when you're an apartment by yourself if you have a girlfriend like I'm fucking angry he gives a shit I fucking yelled whatever it's not the end of the world once you have kids you're like damn I'm making this this place this living environment hell and it's me like I'm doing this Yes. And that's why, again, for me, personally, I would say the porn thing, the piece of that was like, you know, I'm at odds with my wife. I want sex. I'm like, fuck. And then I, you know, you slink off to the porn, slink off the porn. You never fix the issue. Whereas if you're like, all right, we got to get on the same page that we're, you know, we got to be operating. Part of a marriage is we're obviously having sex with each other. We're communicating. porn's such a little like it's like a little underground shelter you can kind of hide out and you obviously fucking just become a freak under you know an underground bunker freak but that was the uh at least for me personally and it's like you start hat and then it's like you ditch the porn safety blanket and you're like all right I have to hash this out and for me it's like that then starts at least starts to spread out into other areas of my life where I would be like I don't feel like dealing with this blah blah blah yeah so yeah I don't know I think it's good and

I really, again, having kids is like the big thing for me where it's like, I'm every day, I'm like, all right, let's make my house. What can I do to make my house chill, fun, and just like a place that feels good to be in. And that entails when I'm feeling like about whatever, I have to catch myself and calm myself down and realize like this isn't as big as the thing I'm trying to do, which is like create a happy, healthy house. Yeah, that's exactly right. But it's hard.

It's very, very difficult to be like, and this is something I had to tell me. myself a lot of times where I'm like, you know, I'm, you're responsible for how you feel inside. It's no one else. It's literally your responsibility. And it's like, what do you have to do to make that stuff feel good inside your body? Like, how do you feel at ease? And it's like, you have to figure that out. Yeah, you do. And there's like, well, that's a good nuance take. And that's the difficult thing that a lot of dudes just like, it takes them forever to figure out. Like, unless like you're super conscious about this is going to be, yeah, like a long. journey, right? Yeah. Yeah, like, you're not ever going to come to that realization. I'm even thinking

about just like how on edge a lot of guys are when they're looking at porn. Like, you got your phone, you got your laptop. You're always on the high alert because you're just like, oh, did I exit out of this? My wife probably can't pick up my phone. Did I delete the Instagram history? Did the audio go to a Bluetooth device? 100%. No, but you're always on high alert. And just think about like what that that hyper you're at you're hyper alert and think about what that does just as you

in your household how do you conduct yourself if you're always on high alert you're just gonna be more you're shady you're gonna obviously possibly like lash out with the kids more

or with the wife and the wife's gonna think that you know something's up with him she's gonna confront you and then you're just like no I'm not and you start to lie

yeah right so it just creates this bad yeah it's just just like a bad household culture. You know? And so I think, yeah, I mean, obviously, if you're a married man with kids, yeah, you got to get this shit unlock.

Yeah. You do need to get this shit unlock even if you're single because you're gonna, you're gonna bring it into the marriage and you're gonna bring it into your household at some point. It is also kind of a flex as a young man to be in a relationship being like, I don't even look at that crap.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of nice. Yeah. Because it's like, yeah, there's, I feel like girls have been, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the word. Not like conditioned,

but like I feel like it's become a bit strange for, let's say most girls in like, you know, modern normal society to be like, if he wants to watch porn, that's fine. Like almost like it's healthy. It's good.

But I don't think girls like it at all. They don't. I've never met a single girl who's really actually into it. Your girlfriend might say that, but the moment she becomes your wife. She's like, fuck this, dude.

Not watching that shit. Yeah. Why are you asking me to do this crazy shit when we're having sex? That's true. Yeah. No, I agree. No, they don't like it. Yeah.

At some point, I also would argue that. Also, I don't give a fuck. I don't think any guy probably wants a wife who is legitimate. Like, you might say you do. Yeah. But at some point down the road, I don't think a guy likes the idea that his wife is cool with him looking at porn. To actually genuinely catch your wife beating would be devastating. Yeah, no, absolutely.

I would be like, what the fuck are you doing? I'd be so mad. Absolutely, dude. Like phone in hand. Phone in hand. I was like, bro. Yeah. You're fucking good.

Yeah, that's gross. I would hate that. That's gross. Well, the female porn thing is interesting. I don't know. I mean, I obviously know more about the guy phenomenon of jacking off. But no, dude, the chicks are loving like the erotica now. Yeah.

That's just like mainstream. Yeah. The novels and all that stuff. The novels, the vampires or whatever they fucking are into. There's a new bookshop on my street that just opened. Girl porn? Yeah, erotica. Oh, no.

I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, no, that's, that's, uh, it's gross. They're not really open to talking about it. Whenever I, I always ask, I always ask my wife, if she reads, she likes, like, fantasy stuff, but I feel like now it's like, the erotic is in, and it's, they're not like the, like, and then he fucking fucked me in the ass. It's like, it's all about the moment two people meet. That's the thing.

They want, like, the moment they go, fuck it, and they just kiss. That's like their erotica. They get whisked away. Yeah, they get wished away. And I've learned, I listen to this female professor lady who was talking about it. She's like, dude, I, I'm a professor. And I, you know, I just started reading these books. And she's like, I got so fucking, like, I would put them literally like almost like a, like a cartoon like in another book and like hide.

She's like, I would read them. And I would read them. And I would read that point over and over and over and over where they finally come together. Get some going. Get some fired up. It does, dude. So. And again, for me, it's like, you know, because you hear even going to marriage, people go like, dude, it's great.

the idea of having sex to one person or a whole, it's just like a stupid idea. It doesn't make sense. I, what I found is like, it's actually really easy, especially if you're not watching porn. Yeah.

Because then you just sit there and you're not, especially if you're not jerking off, you just get, eventually your body's when they go, yeah, it's time for sex. Yeah. And you're not going to go,

like, my wife. Yeah, I'm, I'm horny. Yeah. No, it's great.

So, I've been fucking my wife for a long time. Yeah. It doesn't get old. No, honestly, I actually, I always,

It's not like, oh, I would tell you. I'd be like, yeah, it's kind of boring. I would say, guys, I'm sorry. I said to my wife, sorry, fucking boring. I'm not bored. I go like, fuck it. No, that's true. And I think it actually gets phenomenally better when you stop looking at porn.

Like, I- 100%. Like, I've been dating my wife when I was 18. Yeah. So I've been, you know, I don't know. I've been obviously having sex with my wife for a long time. I'm 34. And it has, yeah, just hasn't gotten old.

No, it's, it's, it's, uh, but for me, I remember dating and being a porn hound. And I remember I would like, I would type, like, whatever, like this is cool and all. I just don't think there, you know, I guess too. And like, you know, obviously, luckily you marry someone you have like a sexual spark with, you know, sometimes that just isn't there. Yeah. But yeah, I, I, uh, I do think it's, uh, I think it's the move. You know, all things considered, it's like you're going to come at it for everyone comes at it from their own angle, but I've, I've gone both sides of the thing. I've to literally watch porn why I ate breakfast. When I was in college, I would just watch it. I would just, I would just, I would just, I would just, I would just, I would just, I would just, I would just be like, all right, what am I going to watch? And I would just start, I would eat. I remember just being like, this is so sick. I can watch porn. And it's like, it's literally, you're on, you're on Donkey Island with Podokio. I had a college roommate who, pop tarts and porn. Yeah, little, yeah, yeah, make it a day. I had a college roommate who would, who would, who would every night get his last. He was a fucking fiend. Holy shit. This is actually coming back to me. So he was a fiend.

He would open up his laptop, peruse what he wanted to look at in the morning, close his laptop, woke up, have it. But he was fucking, dude, he was sick. He had like a fleshlight that he would, yeah. So he was in it. He was in it, dude. He was fucking in it, dude. But this is actually not, you know, it's funny because, dude, we all have, that's

the thing. We all have these stories. And it just becomes so normalized that we just, think. And it is funny. Like, it is funny. It's funny. It is. Yeah. It's funny. It's funny. And yeah, but that's also the other thing. It's like there has to be a nuance in it with it because it is funny, but it's also like grow up. Like, you know what I mean? Going back to the kids, right? Like, it's like, grow up, dude. Like, you can't be just fucking doing this all your life. It is sad because you are essentially having sex with yourself. And it's like jerking off,

whatever. I get it. Like, you know, you're, look, I always think of soldiers in the battlefield, crank one out, obviously. Sure. It's going to happen. But once you get into, like, the gear, the flashlight, the oculus, it's like, now you're having sex with yourself. Yeah, you are having. It's fucking weird.

Well, dude, and then I feel really bad for the guys who, I'm not going to, like, talk about, like, the science behind it because I just don't really know. But both, so, like, this is more so anecdotal. But I've heard a lot of stories, even from, like, users in the app. Like, they just make such a relationship with their hand that this is how you do get erectile dysfunction. Oh, yeah. thing that you can, that's going to get you off is your hand. Yeah.

And so then you're with a chick. This is super tragic. It's really sad for, you know, the 20-something-year-old guys. The 30-something-year-old guys, you know, they do finally get a babe and they can't get it up. Yeah. Then, I mean, that's a fucking cycle, right? You can't get it up. You feel like shit.

And you just go back on the porn. Yeah. It's fucking crazy. That's the one thing that I, and I think that's lucky enough to be. born before internet porn? Because that does suck for guys who were just like came online. It was just like, boom, here you go. How old are you? 40.

Okay. Yeah, I'm 34. So there's that. But that six years actually is, yeah, no, that's actually like a huge distinction. Because my parents got a computer and they had no idea what the fuck was going on. My parents had no idea. I don't even know. I didn't even know that. They probably didn't know that there was history.

Right? So you could just... They didn't. I guarantee you. They had no idea. I remember. I remember. I was like in the floppy disk era that was like very initially I remember my brother to bring him a floppy desk popping in naked chick comes up and we're like fucking awesome

but yeah that's my whole thing I always try not to just like talk down to people or be like preachy about it it's just like dude I'm telling you like I've run the experiment it's like for me personally you could be like in some weird you know you could just be like no me and my wife for Polly

and we watch porn it's like okay yeah yeah whatever good luck with that But it's like, good luck. But it's like for me, I would say if you're standard meat and potatoes or whatever, if you're like, I'm a dude trying to have a wife and kids, it's like, it's like it's one of those things where it's like it's got to be kind of kicked out eventually. Otherwise, you have a porn dad. I remember porn dads. I don't know if you ever came across a porn dad, but like guys who just had playboys. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's fucking weird. Looking back on it, I was like, dude, there was playboys all over that dude's house. Yeah, no, it's weird. It still gives me the heat. I remember being like, dude, your dad's so fucking cool. He has Playboys. I wish my fucking dad ever, yeah. Now I'm like, I'm so happy my dad is.

Yeah, I'm very, yeah, no, my dad was not a porn dad. No. He's not a porn dad. But no, I know. And that's also the thing. It's like, yeah, you grow up with it thinking it's like a cool, like, novelty. I want to be like my dad. I'm just going to fucking start jacking off.

I don't know. It's weird. It's weird. It's very fucking weird. Also, I remember going around to like mechanics shops when I was younger with my dad. Plastered and pull. Every mechanic shop's bathroom. And then I was literally just the other day.

I was like, were dude's jerking off in there? Yeah, they might have. I'm pretty sure they were. They might have. I guarantee it. Because it's like otherwise, what the fuck? Yeah.

Well, you're just around. And guys are only so fucking strong, you know. So if you're just around like, you tits all day. Somebody. I remember it would be a collage of just naked ladies in there. And I'd be like, I remember being little and being like, whoa, my daddy. Be like, close your eyes. Go to the bathroom.

Come out of there. No. I remember just like. We were, me and my, my oldest is four. And there's like, up the street. He's not a mechanic anymore, but he has an old garage and,

like, we would walk past it. And we said hello one time. And he was like, oh, come over into the den. We came over into the den. And it was just like,

like the classic, like 1970s, 1980s, like tits. And I'm like, fuck, dude, close your eye.

I pulled my boy away. I was like, don't fucking look at this. I was so scared. I was like, dude, fuck. I just fucked up my kid's life

forever. So. Now, that's young enough. He probably forgot. I hope, dude. Nah. I hope. I remember, I saw a naked lady the first time

caught out of a magazine on, literally it's a classic on the woods, just in the woods, like the ground of the woods, crumpled up, and it was just a naked lady. I was, I was probably for real, like, six years old. Yeah. I remember just being like, what's that? And someone was like, it's a naked lady. I remember being in the woods, it was outside of the Karakong swim club, just being like,

what the fuck? And just, I remember just like, as a kid just being like, okay, and just like walking about my way. Yeah. I remember that was him. Or hopefully that's my boy. I'm hoping that he's not fucked up. I think he's fine. It's when you get 10.

Yeah. My brother, same thing. They were just like, check this out. The naked lady on a thing. And I was just like... Older brother? Older brother. Yeah.

Older brother. They're same exact story. They have their buddies. They have the VHS. And they're like, check this. As I staffed to guard, I would stand. They make me stand like this down by the fucking door from when my parents came back and I have to run up and be like, they're here.

They're here. They're here. They let me watch a little bit of it. And I was like, this is so fucking too. So that's another issue, though, too, because it is such a part. And again, you say these things, and it's not, like, it's not bad. Like, I, you kind of, like, this sounds fucking weird, but it is like a fond memory. Like, that's funny, right?

That memory is funny. It is funny. Or when your friends all get together, which, by the way, women never think this is real. But it's like, yeah, like, a guy in your class had a DVD or VHS or whatever. And then you all go to fucking his house and you're all, like, just. jerking off. What was you're also so young? You're like,

oh, you do that too. Yeah. It's like, let's do it. They're like, they're drinking buddies. Yeah.

And they're like, that's gay. And it's like, no, it wasn't gay. Like we weren't jacking each other. Oh. We were just jacking off with our thighs touching.

Like, that's not gay. That's not gay. Also, also, it was really like, you need, you were like,

like how like heroin addicts all go to like a shooting gallery. Yeah. You were just like, yo, we got it. You were essentially have heroin. You're like, Candid Prevaders.

Let's do heroin again. So there's, and I look back at that and I like laugh. And I do think like to some degree it's, well, and this is, this is the difficult part. This is my whole deal. It's like, that's funny. I'm not here to like fucking moralize you, right? Yeah. But I don't know a lot of guys who are able to have a relationship with porn and not get addicted or just have like a pretty, you know, dependent relationship with it.

You know? For sure. It's like, if you could smoke a sick. just smoke cigarettes with you a couple days ago. And it's like, okay, I'm not going to smoke a cigarette again. Yeah. Right. But I have that relationship with cigarettes.

I can do that. But yeah, with porn, if I'm going to look, if I'm looking at porn once, even to this day, I'm probably on the fucking, I'm off my rocker. I'm good. I'm going to look at it every single day. Dude. And then then there's the issue of like what a porn. It's, you know, and again, me and my brother talk about this a lot. but like being in a porn hole is another thing too where it's like you're you're using porn

whatever some guys go so deep into it where it's like now we're calling hooker ads now we're doing this and then you come out of the whole thing where you're just like the fuck did I do I used to read like I would read about this all the time and you get you on like Reddit and you're like porn addiction this and there's a guy who's like yeah I was watching porn one day I kind of spas called hookers I end up having like unprotected sex with the end you're just like Jesus yeah that's like the worst type of stories yeah and there but there There's a porn hole. You can be like when you're in porn brain and your gooner brain, it's like, you might think

you're thinking normally, but you're kind of not. You're gooned. You're at a place. You're being like, if you see like a chick, you're just instantly being like, dude, and it's just like, there's a point of it where you're like, dude, like. Yeah, no, like I said, it goes back to like that, like, spirit energy. Like, it just grips you. Yeah.

It's like a fucking secubis almost. You know what I mean? Like, it's like the secubus actually like exists. And it's just like ruling your life. have that attached to your back. Yeah, man. It makes you, yeah, you can do wild shit. Like, porn just got done looking at it for three hours.

You feel bad about yourself. It could even be like, yeah, I'm going to fucking buy this new pair of Nike's that I can't afford. You know what I mean? Like, you just do stupid shit. Yeah, and there's, and even like, like on like a societal perspective, it's, I don't know what the, I'm not going to say because I don't want to like a fucking idiot. But there's like a percentage of divorces happen. because of porn or infidelity

infidelity right in general right so like that's a that's a percentage of like whatever the 52% divorce rate is and it's like that's just gonna cost you a lot of fucking money so like you were looking at porn now you gotta pay alimony like now you gotta pay child support yeah it's like fuck that dude like that's well and it's like you get it and then that that is you fuck up your kid's life like I don't care like if you

like and that's you know whatever but like you know you get a divorce I don't care like if it's even like a positive reason like why you got divorced. Like there are some relationships out there right that shouldn't necessarily exist. You get a divorce. You're still throwing a fucking nuclear bomb into your family. Like the kid's going to be fucked. Like the kid's going to have some type of and it's like a spectrum.

They're not going to be fond of it. Yeah. Yeah. I was, unless you're a sick ticket like me. I remember my parents stay together. I wish they got divorced. When I was younger, I still wish they got divorced so bad.

Just because it was like I would always hear about people having two Christmases. Oh yeah. You're excited. I was a fucking little. sick thing. I remember me like, dude, that sounds so sick. But then it's like, obviously, I was on the outside looking in. I'd probably be very sad. Yeah, I know, it's like, I was one of six. So my parents would laugh and be like, dude, we literally can't get the like, like we can't. We could, but it'd be so. Yeah. He's like, I remember my dad is always

laughing me and like it's just, it's just not, I don't even know how to even go about that. Yeah. But it's one of those things. So I get it where you go, well, if I look at porn, when I get divorced, it's like, no, not necessarily, but you're probably more likely. I I really would imagine. You're likely to do more stupid shit or you're likely to be more of a dick to. All your bad qualities are going to come out because of porn. Like going back to the whole like surveillance thing or you're hypervigilant or whatever. All of your worst qualities are going to be highlighted because you're looking at a lot.

That's a cool way to put it. It's like it's the kind of a node in this like network of thinking and being that's probably not the best. Yep. Yep. Exactly. And so yeah, you're, I don't know. There's just a lot of ill effects. And what's cool is that I do think more than ever now, people are at least like more privy to this.

Even like five years ago, you couldn't really talk about. You know, people like you weren't necessarily talking about porn addiction, you know, or porn. Be surprised. Yeah, yeah. I've been throwing it on about it for like 10 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I know what you mean. It was very, I remember the no fat thing coming out and being like, whoa.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Guys, please, please, please. of you, I'll be doing stand up. August 7th and August 8th, San Jose, California. Come on, guys. Ticket sales. Ooh, boy.

Now, everywhere else is looking decent, but San Jose, California, I get it. It's not great at summertime. But if you want to come, come. August 13th and 14th, Spokane, Washington. Then I'll be in Portland, Maine, Boston, Massachusetts, Royal Oak, Michigan, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Atlanta, Chattanooga, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, and a bunch of, of other places, guys.

Go to Matt McCusker.com to get tickets. I'll be touring all through December. So in terms of the app, there's the, there's like the recognizing that. Yeah, they first have to recognize the pain shit and the fact that.

Like horniness. Horniness is a real thing. There's just horniness, but then there's a pain component and kind of untangle. You got to untangle that. You got to realize, like I said,

going back that you've fucking, it's like almost like if you only worked out your right bicep your whole life. It's going to be fucking huge. And the rest of your body's going to, It's actually a pretty appropriate fucking... Your forearm is just fucking... So, and what are the other two kind of points of it?

Yeah. There's that and there's... There's a community feature. Got you. Right? So, like, there is... Just like how you have a band of brothers when you're a kid jacking off with each other.

You have to... That is true. You do have to get into community with one another. And there is, like, there... It is shown that some accountability is very positive in this, right? So the fact that you can go to someone for, like, hey, my wife just blew up on me or I'm struggling today

right those are like pretty easy examples just the fact that you realize that your situation is actually not that unique that's another thing guys like we think we just get into this headspace we get into this tunnel vision it's like I'm the only one dealing with this shit it's like my wife's only reacting like this or whatever

and then you open it up and it's like no everyone's fucking life is very similar to what your experience is so there's a community feature to it And then there's another feature, which is good for, you know, for some people. There is like a psychoeducational piece, right? You do need to have some understanding of how this is actually affecting your brain.

How, yeah, do you know that stuff as well? Yeah, like, what do you want to know? How does it affect your brain? What does it do in like the squishy stuff in there? Yeah. So, well, there's a lot, right? I mean, first of all, it does, you know, everyone is always going to say like it overrides your, you know, your dopamine, you know, receptors, right? So it does like flood it. So you are more, again, what's hard, because it's

very nuanced, you don't realize, it's to some degree you don't realize it. But it is like, you know, the greens aren't as green or something like that. You know what I mean? So like, you're going throughout these experiences in your life and because you're flooding yourself with like this, with this dopamine all the time. Yeah, you are a little more sluggish towards life. Yeah. That's the way I've heard it. It's like, it's a, someone was saying it's like a neurologically expensive event. Every time you have, look at porn, jerk off. Yeah.

Your brain, you know, you only have, it's like shooting out little, you know, sparks and particles of shit. Yeah. It's like, it's a lot. It's like every time, like naked lady, orgasms, like, your brain's going, this is it. And it just fires so much to your point where you start, starts kind of dull, like the greens aren't as green. Yeah.

You're just kind of, you just don't have the juice pretty much. And then, like, you know, you start making relationships with the porn. You start making relationships with the, hand you start me you know what I mean like your your brain will pick up on this so again like going back to that whole ED point that's real like if you're really just only able to get off to your hands because you created a relationship with your hand um and your body recognizes that although this isn't a vagina like I can't get hard to this like yeah this is it's going to always be a tighter grip so there's that you know and kills your it honestly does crush even things like productivity

yeah so your output on that And I'm very grateful because, again, people are more apt to talk about this shit now. So there's tons of research going on, getting into the weeds of how this is actually, like, affecting men's brains, right? So I think this, and I think for a certain guy, that's always good, but that can't be the only piece, right? Like, you're not going to deal with this just through psychoeducation, right? You have to have to have the cocktail of the metacognitive, the brotherhood accountability space, and the psychoeducation. I think that's like the greatest route to overcome this. I agree.

Yeah. It's more so part of like consciously authoring your life in a way where you're like, all right, I'm just going to really start. Every single thing I do asking myself, is this a good thing? Should I be doing this? What would it look like if I didn't? And just experiment. That's what the one thing I've always been lucky with. I am a big self-experimenter.

I love just like doing weird experiments. And like last, last month I did a thing where I just try to work out every day for 30 days. I did 32 days just like really hard. No breaks. No breaks. Just to see like, do I really need rest time? Like I hear about all the time. Like what if I didn't?

You do. I got very tired. But the, but you kind of like, you know, I don't know. I think especially as you get older because people fall into this rut of just like, I guess I go to work every day. And it's like you can always be like giving yourself challenges, self-experiments and do, you know, I think that's like one of the best possible things you can do. And it's like, and again, I, for me, I was one of the most staunchly like, fuck, dude, if people don't tell you that's bad, like, that's just some arcane old bullshit.

Like, you're dumb for listening to that. And I was like, porn rules, do whatever you want. And it's like the classic tale. Then you get older and you're like, damn it. Now, you know, you're kind of like, I. made my bed and that wow it would be imagine being way more conscious about this stuff when I was in my early 20s I could have made my life infinitely easier kind of thing well no exactly like I think that's a good principle like you want your life to be like you like yeah like easier right yeah pleasant

pleasant would be nice pleasant would be nice I would like not to not get into a fucking argument with my wife and it's really like you know you really there's something to do that if you're gooned when you're younger and you're select you're like out looking for you know a wife girlfriend whatever you're you're so you don't even realize and maybe this is like without the goon or with it I don't know to be fair but it's like if you're just like used to being like naked chick tits blah blah blah ass awesome but then you learn like oh I have to like relate to this person as a human yeah exactly and that's like maybe that's just the fate of all men no matter what but it's like that's that's like a tough one man because it's like you

You just, you're so gooned out. You're like, I'm going to fuck this shit. Yeah, you just kind of, yeah. And you have to build a life with it. And you're like, fuck, I didn't think about that part. Yeah, that's a huge part. Also, like, even going to that. The biggest.

Go into that point, though. Like, yeah, you spend your whole life. I've even seen this where it's like, you know, you think you develop. How much of our taste for women has actually been influenced by porn, right? So it's like, oh, I just like, you know, a fucking big tit brunette chick. Yeah. It's like, well, maybe it's, maybe that's actually not necessarily. Well, I don't know who wouldn't like us.

Yeah. It's a different headache, right? But, yeah. No, that's, you know what I mean? There's something to be said for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, well, how much of your taste has actually been affected by pornography?

You just can't give any specifics. Any specifics, like, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, well, it's like, yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. Do you really like a short Asian lady? It's very slimmy, like, yeah, okay, maybe I do it too. Yeah, but I get your point.

It's like, it does, it, and it also like, like, you know, again, just like you, whether you can say, I know porn's all fake, but if you're just watching that over, and over and over and over again. You start to be like, this is how it should look. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. It's like, yeah, no, it's not. The jackhammer is not, you know, you don't need to just bust out the jackhammer on a Wednesday night.

Yeah. 8 p.m. It's like that. It's not really like that. No. Well, yeah, and then it isolates you because then you come to, you know, what's the, the goon caves? Oh, yeah, yeah. If you were heard about this or read about it or?

Yeah, there was an article I saw, and I only like half a, Oh, from the Harpers? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My brother sent me that. I think you sent me that as well. I sent you three people sent me that. I think I sent you that.

I sent you monks in the casino. I got to check that out. No, I didn't read that yet. That's good. That's good. It's all about like the vice economy and how, you know, it's the porn plus the gambling. Which is, man, fuck, dude, the gambling is, you gamble? No.

A big gambler. I am the only, do you sports gamble? No, I've never done. I'm not allowed to anymore. Your wife? Your girlfriend? My wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She fucking put a stop to it. Yeah. Yeah. Good. I was never been a bad. You probably had a you probably had a problem, but I don't want to talk. Yeah, never mind. We won't. We can't do that the next time. But yeah, I've never been a big gambler, man. Yeah, I never, I get it. I've done it a couple times. I mean, this is fun, but I get so sick when I lose money. Especially you can see it. I've never, I've never, I've never, I've never, I've never, I've not trying to, I just never have been interested in it. I've, I've, uh, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't do it for me. And I also don't follow sports enough to like even. I've, like, even. I've, I've never. I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've

pretend I have it like a winning a You know, a lot of guys watch enough They're like, I'm kind of keyed in I think that's where it gets guys We're like, no, I'm seeing something No one I sees. And that's like the I'm not seeing anything.

I'm literally taking it's a roulette for me. I would be being like, yeah, those guys. Yeah, and that's this article And I haven't read it since I think it came out in November Monks in the casino. I forget who wrote it. I think it was just like a substack publication. But yeah, that's this whole thing.

It's like we're living a monastic life in the sense where all these guys are like isolated and alone. And we're in this like cell and the only, you know, type of interaction we get is with not real people, right? So it's like you're not actually like interacting with the people when you gain. Like you're not actually like interacting with fucking, you know, Bryce Harper or anything like that.

Like you're just betting on him. And you're not interacting with the chick that you're jacking off to. Yeah. So you're just living a very cloistered life. Even only fans I've learned. You're not even talking to her. It's like four Romanian. just around the clock.

Just typing back. Romanians? Pretty much. Pretty much. It's just like four. No, really it is like Eastern European guys and they're around the clock.

Yeah. And the lady recorded this shit like four years ago. And now she's just chilling. Because like when you, I saw this in an interview with someone. They were saying, if you're only fans now. So this person really did.

Whoever the model is really, if they have like, usually they have managers. If it's a bigger like porn star lady, she has management, all this stuff. So they take you in there like, dude, you're going to do a new piece of content every day for like a year or two. Once you have, let's say like 100 something videos, when a new, you just stop.

You're like, I'm done. I'm not record. You can record if you want, but you can also stop. And then that person gets drip fed your old content from years ago from, you know, you quote unquote, but it's just a team of typers being like, oh, hey. And like, you know, it kind of gets like fed out and dripped out. And then it's just like you're just like watching an old curated collection while this lady does whatever the fuck they do. but like it's not, you're not even, with only fans, at least you get to talk to the person,

like you're not even talking to the person. That's fucking crazy. Yeah, sucks. That is wild. And there, again, you take like a 30, you know, thousand foot view on that. Like, that is pathetic, right? It's sad.

Like, it's sad. Again, could have got me, honestly. Yeah, well, no. My wife didn't have all my credit cards. I would have for sure signed up for one of those. Sure. But it's like, she's got my, I literally, I don't do any of the financial shit, so I don't like, same here.

I also hate fucking doing it. So it's like, it's like, Which is sweet. I don't have to do that. I don't even, I never know how much money we have. I don't know either. I genuinely, I ask her. Like every, like, twice a year, I'll be like, how are we doing? How is everything? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we good.

Like, we're going to afford the house. Well, I read a long time ago that samurai has held it down like that. That a samurai would be like. The samurai would take care of. Oh, no. No. It would be like, I'm a samurai. All this other stuff is dealt with.

I'm not even looking or thinking about this, which I try to do. I'm like, I'm not, if I can help it. I'm not even going to just let me know if shit gets fucked up, basically. Yeah. Yeah, that's how we roll. I stuck to that, but apparently it's not the case. A lot of talk to a lot of guys are like, what? They're like, no, I do every, I do all of our stuff like that.

And it's like, what I fuck? No, I don't fuck with the finances. I don't touch him. That's a very, that's a, yeah. Is that like old world? Like classical. Yeah, ancient Greeks. We're just being like, yeah, we're just being like the Greeks, dude.

The word economy comes from household management. The world economy comes from household management. We were just talking about this. It is, yeah. Oeconomia. It is the economy. Yeah. Good point.

I'm gonna, yeah. Fair point. We're just, yeah, we're just living that ancient Greek life. I've said it before. Money's for girls. Money is literally for girls.

Yeah. I think so. Money is for real. We've vented money for girls. Right here. Go do your thing. Shut up. There's a fucking.

Absolutely. There's a piece of paper where you fucking made up quite. That's another thing. I don't even know how these guys, I mean, you have to be taken out like private credit card. You're a really ballsy guy if you're,

you know, with a chick and you're prepaid credit card? thought about it. But it's like as soon as you think about one administrative task, you're like, yeah, I don't want to do that. No, dude. Yeah, you know, you're a bolsey guy if you're fucking putting your only fan subscriptions on your regular, like, you know, debit card. It's wild. Dude's get busted. I mean, again, you're in a porthole. Well, then again, yeah, you start thinking dumb, you think you can get away. It's not even like I can, it's not even like that. It's not even that, um, like articulate. It's like, I can get away with this. It's just like, no,

I'm going to do it. Yeah, I'm doing this. You're always going to get caught. I also think like, this is completely just my own thought. I do think that the fruit of a good marriage is that, or a good relationship, is that like, yeah, the shit's going to come out eventually. Like,

you can only suppress it for so long. It's going to come out. Yeah. And maybe it's that, or maybe it's just that guys are really fucking dumb and you're in a fucking porn brand. No, women have detective brains, first of all,

they're all, they're on the beat, they're tied into a level. Yeah, to a level you can't even comprehend in terms of like reading like micro expressions and all this stuff. I learned that a long time.

It's like a long time ago. It's like 100% honesty is the only path. Otherwise, you're just going to get busted. It's a matter of when. Yeah. You're going to get busted. And even going back to your point, like I, what you were saying, like, you just like try shit. Yeah.

Self-experment. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's another thing. Like, I don't think that guys have to be like in the depths of despair to just try this out. It's like just fucking try it out. See if you can do it. And there's tools out there.

Mm-hmm. why don't you leverage that? Like if there's a tool out there that could and if you really think that you don't have an issue with it and why don't you just fucking try it out see if you can do it and if you can't, okay well then I'm a fucking idiot

and the guys I work with are fucking idiots and we're all fucking stupid just prove it like it's like to prove us wrong like you know. And I also I find it to be a pretty useful bargaining chip in terms of like just sex and marriage. I remember the day I was just like bro I don't even look at that shit to my wife.

A, it felt good. And B, I'll be like, well, just so you know, it's like, you're all I got, babe. They love that shit, too. I know. There's literally nothing else. So it's like, you know, just you let me know. We don't have to do it right now. And you want to give them, like, security.

And, you know, you do. It's the ultimate, like, just keep me in mind. That's all I'm asking. Just think about it. Absolutely, dude. Track the days with me. That's all my. Are you a track?

Were you a guy to, like, do streaks? I never, I never, like, a streak. Like, a streak. Like, I haven't looked at porn. 85 days. No, I stopped doing that. I'm not, I was never a streaker.

There's actually, I used to do it for sure, but then I'm just still thinking about porn all the time. Yeah, I just go like, I just don't do it anymore. Yeah.

And I'm not, God forbid I fall. I'll get right back. I don't think that that's like necessary like a bad way of approaching it. I've actually seen guys in the app who, and we do like street. Like there are like street counts.

So I think in some way, like it can be good to see your progress. Like, yeah. It's kind of cool. Like you're looking in the mirror like after you work out, right? Yeah. You know,

That's kind of cool. Yeah, but for me, it was, I think that's probably how fucking dependent I was on it. It was like the streak made me think of the porn. And then that, yeah, yep, I remember I had this one app. I think it was called Brain Buddy, where I would look and my little tree would grow every day. I remember the day my tree fell down, but I was like, it's like deflating. Whereas for me, your tree grows and then you think of the phallic nature of the growth. And then you're just like, well, if that's hard.

But I lost my tree. and I was like, God damn it. But for me, and I think this is true with like just sobriety, like drugs in general. The guys who are like white knuckling it, like, fuck, dude, I've been over six months. I think about it every day. You could do that, I guess. Or it's like you have to find a deeper level of like, no, it's actually, it doesn't even register as A, worth it or B, like even pleasant in a way. Yeah.

And people do that with drugs all the time. They find just a like a bigger thing that they're like, yeah, like if that leads to me losing this, this becomes more unattracted drugs becomes more unattractive. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's the point where it's like, it's almost repulsive. Like, I'm disgusted, but you're just like, nah, I'm genuinely good on that rather than being like, oh, I will do so fucking bad. Yeah. I wish I could, but I can't.

It's like a very different thing. Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I've never got into that either. But like I said, you know, I guess it could work for. Also, whatever the fuck you got to do if you get pumped on the 30-day streak. But it's, that's my thing. It's like, I...

Well, that's why, like, the surveillance shit. I think... Covenant eyes. Yeah, like, I... I think here's the deal. At first, do whatever the fuck you can to... If you really don't want to look at it, just do whatever you can at first, right?

But, yeah, no, I think they're... Like, the sober addict type of thing. Like, I do think there's... You know, if it's just, like, a... If you're just, like, living out of, like, fear, I don't think that's, like, a healthy way to ever get over something. That's true.

But, I... And again, for me, it's like, you know, do you, man, run your own experiment. I ran the experiment. I was like, yeah, this is generally not the move. And it took me like years, dude, and I remember just hitting a point where I was like, yeah, I think I'm good off this, man. Like I really, and, you know, since then I've just been like, yeah, I just don't.

There's times where I'm like, damn, that would be sick. But I'm like, I know where that goes. Was it before you were married or after? After. After. Well, after. And I remember, I remember like trying, try and trying. And then eventually just being like, yeah, I just don't need.

I don't need to do it. You know, it's just like I could, obviously. but it's just not, it's just something I want to just kind of like move ahead, move without, you know. Did she, was it because she caught you? No, she caught me like five times. I was shameless. She would catch him, like, got me. Yeah. I really did. I really was. That's the thing. I didn't have like a

that much. I remember being like, damn, this sucks. I got caught. It's embarrassing. Yeah. But no, not even that. But it was just, and she never even really pressured me. She would have kind of be like, yeah, it's not like, like, I'm not like stoked about it. And I wouldn't lie. That's a big thing. She'd be like, did you watch porn? I'm like, yeah. Yeah. So I always, like, lying to me felt just like, like, no.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I just got to the point I'm not gonna lie. But the, yeah, I never just got to the point where I was like, I just, for myself,

I'm like, I just don't want to. Yeah, absolutely. It's just weird. It just feels weird. It's just like, it just comes to the point where it's like, I just know if I never kicked it

being like 70, putting the phone down. I would have, I would eventually have jumped off a bridge. Yeah, no, there is a lot of guys, dude, who. Just like seven years old.

Like fucking guys in the app are 70 years old. It's crazy. Yeah. No, no, it's crazy. It's crazy because... It was so sad. Fear, if, like, if death is like, I'm thinking about death and this simultaneously, I'm like, one of them's got.

I can't have both. It's going to be weird with the advent of the AI porn now. Because I wonder, like, if guys are going to be like, well, it's not a fucking woman, actually. I don't creep me. AI people kind of creep me out. Like, when I see them, I'm always kind of like, it gives me a weird. It's going to get to the point, though. I think it's going to be indistinguishable.

Yeah, and again, even the, even the, even, that it's like what is the point of this what is it sir and if it's just to be like I'm just trying to fucking come it's like okay you you can do this you can't like you know but I don't know it's it's tough it is it's tough because I again for myself it's like and it's like it's kind of almost a curse I have a high libido so I'm like I would like always tell my life I need to fucking go and I genuinely get to the point where I'll I like will have trouble sleeping like for like and it's purely physiological like yeah I can't fucking sleep and I know exactly what it is so I get that. And there's like, you know, but for me, it's like, you know, and that's just however you want to

play it, you know, it's like, I don't know, he's got to figure out it. It's not like if you do this, your life will be ruined, but it's like if you weigh heavy on one side versus weighing heavy on another, it's like personally, I feel like just abstaining from it in general. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of guys who are looking at porn who have on this, like, you know, you look at that guy's life and like that guy's like, he's, he's, and I'm sure, here's the thing, he is, he is a good husband and he is a good father. I would be a fool to condemn a porn. Yeah.

That's like, trust me. Yeah. No, but there's, again, but there's, like we talked about, like, there are like levels to this. Like, you could level up. Like, you could. Like, you'll probably be a better husband and a better father if you. I agree.

I think that's a fair way to put it. You can kick it. Well, dude. Let's, uh, let's much. Let's get some lunch. Let's do it. All right. Adios, everybody.

Cool. Anything else you want to. Oh, yeah. Join relay. That app. Can I plug it? Yeah, please. Do it.

Do it. Like I said, to the guys who Actually are you know Fucking in it who need you know some help Or the guys who are just like This isn't fucking real I don't know Just try it out

Yeah I'm also gonna start This Beehive Newsletter where I'm not gonna actually talk about Porn But I'm gonna talk about other ways to Improve your life Nice

I thought you're talking about the Beyonce fan base No what the fuck Oh is that what I did I do not, is that real? Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Is that true? Yeah, the beehive.

The Beehive is the Beyonce. Well, yeah, so I'm starting to beehive newsletter about Beyonce and all of her happenings and what she's doing. No. Yeah, I'm going to probably call it take it or leave it. There you go. Yeah, take it or leave it. So, yeah, even, and I don't know fucking shit, but I do know what I fucked up at. So, yeah.

So, yeah, but join Relay. app. I think the guys, what is it? MSSP, that's a little promo code you can use that I... Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So put that.

We'll give you a free trial. If you don't like it, you don't think it fucking does anything. We'll give you your money back. Beautiful. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Of course.

Cool. Thank you. Watch new episodes of Matt and Shane's secret podcast on Spotify. Do it.