Memory Lane with Kerry Godliman and Jen Brister - S03 E18: Helen Lederer

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

"At school, managing the stink bomb campaign, that was brilliant." This week we have the uber talented and super wonderful @helenlederer on the show. While very few photos are discussed, the sheer joy of conversation was palpable. PICS & MORE - https://www.instagram.com/memory_lane_podcast/ A Dot Dot Dot Production produced by Joel Porter Hosted by Jen Brister & Kerry Godliman Distributed by Keep It Light Media Sales and advertising enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Memory Lane. I'm Jen Bristair and I'm Kerry Godleman. Each week we'll be taking a trip down Memory Lane with our very special guest as they bring in four photos from their lives to talk about. To check out the photos we'd be having a natter with them about, they're on the episode image and you can also see them a little bit more clearly on our Instagram page. So have a little look at Memory Lane podcast. Come on, we can all be nosy together. I went from a swim this morning. Spectacular. I bet. Glorious.

Glorious. Out there in the sea, living my best life. Then Kerry had a coffee. Yeah. And a Turkish, I want to call it a boric. Boric. I don't know what you call it, but it's delicious.

Got potato and onion in it. Chef's kiss. One of the best things you put in your mouth on a, what day is it? Thursday. Then, Kerry, strap, yourself in for this. Yeah. Went home.

Yeah. Got changed. Met my personal stylist. What? You've got a stylist. Who are you? I am Jen Brister, professional comedian and style guru. Come to me for all your styling needs.

Actually, don't come to me for any of those things. You appear to be going to someone else? I very much am going to someone else because I don't appear to have any had any idea how to star myself. Hang on, who's talked you into this shit? Chloe, she's like, you're in a rut with your clothing. I don't agree. I don't agree. We need to branch out.

And I said, but actually, to, for balance, actually, I don't want to put this on Chloe. I actually suggested it. I said, I'm in a rut. And she said, I think you are. And I said, I just like somebody to give me a few other ideas of clothes that might suit me because I'm just wearing the same things. Really?

I'd have done it for free. Would you? Yeah. Would you? Anyway. What would you? Well, for a start, I'd have just made you feel good about what, what, I mean, what, this is my new thing is, um, you probably don't need any new clothes or any advice. You just need to feel good about yourself and then you'd like what you already had.

Well, to be fair, there was a lot of that going on. Yeah, I bet there was. I mean, maybe, maybe, yeah, fair enough, you might need a professional to come in and get you to re-see what is already there. She did a wardrobe audit where she was like, you've got all these clothes and they're great and here's what you can wear. You're going to, okay, I really hope you didn't pay too much money for this. I didn't pay anything.

It was a gift from Chloe. It was a gift. It was my birthday present. Wow. You have got a great partner because after what I saw you did to her the other night at that gig where you threw her under a bus. I don't want to talk about that. We already talked about that.

We haven't talked about that on the show. So you threw Chloe under a comedic bus. I think, I think basically. And now she's paying for you to have a wardrobe audit. To be fair, it was in February that she did that. And I threw her under the bus only on Monday. So there's, look. She probably paid up front.

She did actually. So she couldn't even retract it. She couldn't retract the wardrobe audit. No, well, she could have. She could have phoned the stylist up and said, sorry, this is over. Can I have my money back? Yeah, because if you did to me,

if my partner did to me what you did to her on Monday, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait. wardrobe board it. There would be no wardrobe board it. Kerry? I'd say, listen, babe, the wardrobe board it is off. Kerry, I said to you in the green room and I can't, and you said to me, yeah, it's new material, you've got to do it. You agreed with me. I agree with you. I do agree with you as a comedian. As a human, I'm on Chloe's side. All right. Okay. In that moment, I was a comedian. It was me,

you and Ian Stone. We were doing a gig. We were in a green room. We were in the zone. And you're wearing you're saying. Every man for himself. Yeah, but if you've got a new bit, every man for himself. But that's what I was in. Take her down. Take her down. Now, I've had a massage. I'm feeling like a different person.

I feel like you've done a full 180 on me. That's who I am. That's not what friendship's about. I'm in constant flux. That is what friendship's about. That is what friendship's about. Is it? Oh, what? Running hot and cold. Yeah, because that's life, babe.

That's humanity. You and and yang and all that shit. We are now talking about. something that nobody listening to this podcast is any idea about. Okay, shall I give them a brief without, without quoting your material? You did some intimate bedroom-based jokes on Monday night. Funny. Very funny.

Very funny. Very funny. Funny. Very funny. Very funny. Uh, I highly recommend if anyone gets a chance to see you live, go because she's doing, Jen's doing some great new material. But it very much is at the expense of your life partner.

And at the expense of myself. to be fair. I don't come out. I don't come out of this particularly well. You don't start plunging up or down. That's just punching yourself in the face. That's fine.

It's punching forwards. Bunching in. It's punching directly towards myself in both ways because I have very much left myself open to criticism from my partner as well. Chloe actually now

it's been several days and she's really digested what happened, which was me just to let people know I did a bit of material about pre-4-play for-play. The chat you do before for-play in order to even begin foreplay,

which is often, did you put the bins out? Have you paid for the kids' swimming classes? I mean, if you've got a pet, have you had a pet? If you've got a pet, have you fed it? Don't give this material away, babe. I'm not giving it away, but I'm just saying that that... So you're saying intimate material, but I'm saying it's the pre-intimate intimates,

which is that you get to a point in your relationship. You did get into some... Well, there was a bit of rummaging. I'm not going to quite with you. To be fair, I was riffing because it's new, so I don't know what I'm going to say next. You found a lovely phrase that I would say could be the name of your next tour. We haven't got time to skip the tits.

So I can skip the tits. Actually, skip the tits. This is mine and Ian's reaction. Oh! I came into the green room. You were both looking at me with a bemused experience. expression on your faces of, that's an interesting choice. And also bearing in mind, just to make this even clearer so that, because we haven't

mentioned what this gig was, this was a school fundraiser for my kids' school. Yeah. So a lot of the people in the audience are. Friends. Mums. Local friends. Yeah. Gets.

Gates. Gates. Yeah. So close. So not only have you done this, this is now a bit of new material, but you've chosen to christen it in front of everybody that you see. that springs to mind is you shat where you eat. I shout very much shout where you eat.

Yeah, yeah. But, and again, I will say this because I came into the green room and you were both like, and I was like, but what did you think? And Ian went very funny. And I went, I know content, but it was new. So I had to do it, right? And you both went, of course, it's new. You've got to do it.

You got to do it. Yeah. I stand by that. I stand by that. That was your response in the green room because that is the response of a comedian. But then you just told me, Chloe paid for you to ever. a wardrobe board it and I thought shit there's a definite imbalance

there's a definite imbalance about what I'm what she's getting out this relationship and what I'm getting yeah but that's been from the beginning yeah so if I change anything now I can't wait I can't wait to see your new outfit yeah yeah because every time I see you you're in a different outfit

that's yeah you see this is what I think right we all think other people have got these things smashed and everyone thinks that they are failing in these various areas. Because the other day you saw me and you went, oh, is that a new jumpsuit? And I said, very much not a new jumpsuit, very much an old, old jumpsuit.

This is what I find. You go into your wardrobe board it yourself. Go into your wardrobe. Have a rummage. Pull out some old bit of crap you haven't worn forages. I've got loads and loads of shirts, which I never, ever throw away because I like them. But I forget to wear, I like, I.

There you go. But if I started wearing, When that bloke goes all around the world looking for his true love And then he realizes his true love lives in the village that he comes from It's like that This is incredible, yeah, it's just like that Anyway, who are we talking today? Who are we talking to?

Today, what a joy Today's episode was to record We are speaking to And I mean this sincerely Sincerally Both of us have lost the power of speech Yes, it's, it will come upon us I'm intrigued because I don't

It's Helen Lederer. Oh, yes. Yes. So today, we are speaking to the absolute comedy legend that is Helen Lederer who, you, if you. What a tornado. And a comedy tornado came in, had us howling. Didn't refer to a photograph once. No.

No, no photographs. Brought them, though. Brought piles of. Brought loads of photos. We never, in fact, and had them face down on the table for the entire time she was with us. But was so funny and such good company. And this is definitely one of my faves. And this is Helen Ledra.

Let's do it. Come on, let's do it then. Oh, yeah. I know all the same time. I will do it because fuck it. And then you can just take it out. Because why what's the whole point of doing a thing if you're not going to do a thing that you haven't done?

100%. And I'm trying to do this. And I'm meeting amazing younger women. And it's, I don't know where I've been. I don't know where I've been Because there are some amazing people Like quite close Here in the table

But you don't know me You don't I don't know you in real life But I know your work Because you've done everything Ellen You are Let's get that on record

Yeah let's get it on I'll turn it on Joel Are we on It's always on Oh we're on anyway Fuck that was sneaky Yeah Put me down

It's a loose start It's a soft start Soft opening. Soft opening. That's it. It's a loose. It's a very fucking loose, if you ask me. Those biscuits.

That's what they do now. That's how people start things. And also with your guests, obviously been doing this for, what, 18 years is it? This podcast. You feel like that. All your guests come with their chosen five photographs laid out in a row. You'll find I've just fucking grabbed some, so I don't know. I mean, yeah.

That's how it works. You're good? So actually, how many have you bought? Because some people bring us 100. and we're like fucking hell. Oh, how much tedious is that? Well, I bought a retro, my 80s parody book, because I did

the first one, so we can thumb through that both of us. All three of us. Coping with Helen Ledman. Yeah, double and tongue. Oh, that's funny already. And then, of course, the book that I'm here to talk about intermittently

in a thematic way that isn't overt would be not that I'm bitter with the kind of benign title. Of course, I'm not. No, of course not. And then there are oodles of photographs in there. I'm using word oodles on your podcast.

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On link on Cifora.com or in the magazine. Where do you want to start? I don't mind because you're in charge. It's your house. It's your biscuits. It's your coffee. Yeah, but you are our guest and you bought the pictures. Do you want to go in chronological order and tell us about your life from the beginning? When I was born. Oh, yes, let's do that. Yeah, let's do it. I just suddenly thought that would be helpful.

God, Carrie, you're really on it. Maybe you're intuiting me. because you might do you pick up vibe do you read the room well are you a good reader of the room I'm awful but I quite like chronology

is that the right word just because there's a beginning and an end so would you like to hear about my experience as a baby yes do you remember being a baby no but I've been told

some facts about it because I don't trust people that remember being a baby no that would be a lie they're weird and that would be like to over the beginning of the session showing off and lying

don't lie anyone So, okay, so what happened to me when I was born was I was extraordinarily fat. And we can use the word, like really big, 10 pounds. From the beginning, right from the get-go. Yeah. And I don't know why, but that was big. And then in those days, the mothers in the 50s would quite cheerfully leave the fat child, in my case fat. Not every child was fat, I was fat.

In the carrycot, I think it's called. What? to scream. My mother told me this. This is awful. I know. It's kind of abused. But because it was said quite cheerfully,

what can you do? And you go, well, I couldn't, I wasn't adult enough to say, could you please pick me up and give me a car? But I was so large, it might have been difficult to pick me up. Is that proper large?

Because I'm not good at equating no, 10 pounds. No, I think 10 pounds is large. Is it on the hefty side? Did your mum have, give birth to you, Caesarian or was it? No, no. They didn't do those in the time.

No. That's anything. just died, I think, possibly. I don't know. I'd say that's a bit serious. But so in Wales at the time, when people say, oh, you're Welsh, I go, and then they go, and when did you leave Wales?

I go, six months old. So I'm not really Welsh, but I was there. But if you're born there, you're Welsh, I think that's how it works. What is your family Welsh? So, not at all, even remotely. What were they doing in Wales? Having a baby? The father, not, yeah, obviously giving birth the large one, I was the second one. The first one wasn't as large as me. My sister will remind me,

but no, I just said, that she didn't she doesn't do that kind of thing we don't share the humor thing now the um the father was a civil engineer and he was building something called the usk dam and that's a dam in wales and i was born in slantubbery and there's a shoe shop a great note there that i've never been but when i do welsh interviews i talk about the shoe shop to make out i know about wales but i don't good tip no have some more coffee i'd like to hear about you both no it's not about us no way Nice try. You're so awfulitarian both of you.

So you were born in Wales, you're not Welsh. You enjoyed six long months in the Welsh. Connecting with the shoe shop. Or being aware, being made aware latterly of the existence of the shoe shop. And then where did you move to when you left Wales? Well, then they did, yeah, because they had travelled a lot. So I think some of my insecurity may have been just being on a lot of boats as a young child, just moving. like Persia.

Oh wow. What is Persia called now? Iran. Thank you. So it was called Persia then, wasn't it? It was. Yeah. And so lots of places like that.

Then, so I think there's a lot of travelling. Then we came back to a house in Blackheath where I went to school and you, Kerry, being a local southeast. Did you play us at netball? No, I didn't grow up southeast. I grew up northwest. About as far away southeast. What, northwest of England or London? London.

Did you play netball? I did. I was in the B team. Oh, no. You as well, because you're very athletic. And being tall, you would have got that ball in. You are tall in. I'm not tall.

She's had a growth spurt. I saw her the other day, not having seen her for a while, and I said, have you had a growth spurt? She's definitely taller. Is it the platy? Or I've shrunk. Kerry's not wrong because when I first met you, I hope Kerry will go with the lack of chronology for a second. This is how it works. You just start at the beginning and then you just fuck it off.

I've never done this before. So then I was in the Groucher at some event lurking near the, bar area in one of those top rooms. Yeah. And then you were doing, I think, one of your first stand-ups. No, it wasn't. And I was well on my way by then. Oh, pardon moi.

Anyway, you were good for your first stand-up, if it was, which it wasn't. You were excellent. That's probably why I wasn't. Because if it had been my first stand-up, I mean, you would have been like, you... Oh, no, you were funny, you were confident, you're amazing. And I was there on my own, I don't know, like I do, I turn up to these things. There's a picture of the three of us. Oh, very drawing.

I told you you were drunk in the Groucho. You can't go in there without things. Yeah, no, I think I'd had a couple of wines by then because I stuck around and had a chat with you. Yes, I remember it. So when are we talking time-wise? My God, like 15 years ago. Yeah, okay.

And we were talking to a journalist. Probably, because we have to do that in our job a lot. I can't remember what his name is, but he's quite famous. Oh. He's quite a famous journalist. Oh. Yeah. David Quantic or something?

No, I forgot. I mean, it's really terrible that I forgot his name. But anyway, we'll look back at the photo and we'll figure it out. Let's do it because I quite like famous people. Do you? I'm not attracted to them. I'm not a broad church, the umbrella. It depends who they are.

The title of famous person. Okay, so here's the thing about that's in the book, not that I'm bitter. The thing is I'm attracted by power. I can't help it because my uncle was very powerful. Then he died. So I always want to be with a powerful person. I mean, why would you be with a weak and feeble person? No one.

But the problem is that when I'm with a famous person, then I start behaving in a different way. and my voice goes stupid. Slightly like now, actually, because I now realise having Google you, both how fucking famous you are, slightly jealous. Don't trust Google,

but I'm anxious today because I thought they're up, they're above me in the state of. Helen, this is a very warped perspective on the note. It's very warped. And that's what the internet does. I cannot begin to tell you how warped that perspective is.

Well, no, but you're happening, you're doing it now, you're in the swim, literally. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm in autumn of my life, as I've come to term it, seasonally. You've just written a book. I'm promoting it, but trying to sell it. But it is about the passive-aggressive nature of it

is that I have listed probably all the jobs. I'm fucking done. You have done a lot of brilliant jobs. And I don't think people would believe because in my day, they didn't even put you, I don't think it even invented Google. So my name wouldn't be in the things because it would be the men. And not competitive, but I'm not. But I just thought I have to just mention, by the way,

but I was doing stand up on my own like you do. Yeah, but at a time when there was less women doing it. And because then, and the other people who were on TV didn't do that. Yeah. And so I just thought, do you know what, I'm just going to jot this down. No, you absolutely should. Into a memoir because I might die tomorrow, hopefully not. I might have a bit more time left.

But, you know, I just want it, I want it clocked. I want it clocked. And so now I get to meet all these amazing women. sort of in their 30s and 40s to are confident and doing it. And I think I shut myself off to the world because I just, you know,

kept doing my thing. So yeah, I'm just thinking the world is so fucking different. And I hope it isn't dull looking back, but the world was very different then. Yeah, but it's important to record that. Oh, here's the thing about how you present yourself in the workplace seeking work with dignity or not.

So in those days, have you both done this, a BBC Light Entertainment Party, right? So you'd be allowed to go to a BBC Light Entertainment. I love to be allowed. Yeah, if you had been on condition that you had been cast in a radio programme that year. Oh, well, if not, you fall off the list. Exactly. Well, if you're lowly anyway. So I was lucky enough to have been in something or other that year.

So then you have the party on the stage and you get the yellow wine. And then you sort of pitch up and you look. a new case it's like when you're young at a teenage party you go, I am going to get off with someone tonight because I used to do that. I just go in a bit of a house like this, be a house party is a great for parties, this house and then I'm going to... Parquet floor, I'm not going to ruin the parquet.

Okay, well, okay, fair enough. But you could still, you know, I'm going to get office someone, circle the room, do that, get the snog, go home, happy, right? Yeah. So this would be a light entertainment thing. You see a commissioner. And you're going, who's powerful, who's producer, what do I say? What do I, you think?

Unfortunately I'd done a series called In One Year Four series of that that had got the Sony Award that had been removed from the wall because the producer is a story of my life It's a funny story of all our lives in some department had fallen out with a very important person So I couldn't then reference easily

On that stage, the Sony Award winning Photograph of me in the team with the men, obviously So anyway, I go up, no photograph to prove my complete talent And then I found the man Now, I wonder if you can guess who is. Reef a jacket, because obviously that's what producers have to wear. Do you know what a rea jacket is?

No, tell me. It tends to be navy blue, could be black. Yeah. But the main signature element is the gold buttons, a bit like a sailor. Right. As if you're nautical, but you're not. Bloody hell. Yeah, so rea jacket. She's so retro.

So, retro. So you've got a blazer. Blazer for producers. Anyway, I thought, right, I'll go up and I thought, I've sent several scripts to you and ideas in the past. And here you be, got my yellow wine. Up I go. And I went high in a friendly way because I'm a friendly person.

And I just said, oh, I don't know if you've received anybody. What do you think of, what do you think of me? Because I'm slightly on the spectrum. I will come out and say those, it comes out like that as opposed to more casual. I like it. It's no coded bullshit. It's in my head so I don't have time to censor it. It comes out, what do you think of me?

So therefore he had to answer. He said, but you're high maintenance. And I thought, oh, that's not good. When did you start being funny? When you were a kid, were you always funny? Because I think I probably was in that, did inhabit that spot. Have you got a picture of you as a kid? Yeah, let's go back and look at some photos. You're very strict, Kerry, you're straight in there.

Yeah, and were you always funny? Yep. What is you starting funny? We're back to chronology, Helen. What was your joke? When you were five? Can you remember your joke? When did you first make a person's life? So that is me Oh look at you Smoking

That is cute That's a cute picture Well I was told to smile And Look at your dimple And not long after that They put me in a skiing class Because my dad wasn't English

So he would We weren't like posh posh posh aspirational We were just not completely English So he would like We went skiing But we'd go on a train And stuff like that A long train

It takes ages to get to Austria Anyway, and then that's when I heard, I've heard myself wheeze. So then because I was wheezy, I then was told not to get over-excited or show off because I would die. So then I got over-excited and laughed a lot. So my bliss is being funny and other people being funny and liking other people. So it's not to dominate. It's not to dominate. It's to connect.

It's all about. Humours are a great superpower to connect. And as you have obviously have the same instinct, you know, to do that yourself. So you understand it. Yeah, yeah. So it's not like, but I get in a lot of trouble. Did your mum and dad sort of cry and shut it down?

And that's where maybe there's a parallel. I'd like to get both your takes on this piece about the disconnect between being called a comedian, woman comedian, and then like almost being embarrassed about the title because like in the early days you'd be on a bill, obviously with men. And then people go, oh, she calls herself a comedian. Well, I didn't call myself a comedian.

That's your job when you go on. And I suppose it's like, you know when there's an awkward silence, like just explain to the one of your hordes of listeners that Kerry is looking at me in a very intensive way and it's slightly making me nerves. And so what happens is that I'll hold the ground. I can do it. I can be brilliant. I can be fucking amazing. And then suddenly I might lose it. I got, oh my God.

It's all gone quiet. Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck. And so I can be quite self-destructive as well. Yeah. But I think that's partly as a child that they relied on me. I'm very good at filling silences and being funny. But then when it suited them, or I'd go too far, like they'd give you a great, Helen, until you said that.

Then it went weird. And so then I can take it too far. And then everyone is, that's enough, Helen. Yep, that's enough. Could you go to your room now? Yeah, yeah. So, and again, at school, like managing the stink bomb campaign, that was brilliant. Sorry, what was that?

The stink bomb campaign. It was a beautiful. How old were you in a 12? It was in the first year of the senior school, Blackiff High. And it was a beautiful thing. I didn't do it to be mean to anyone. I sent off for the files of stink bombs. I remember those, yeah.

Exactly, from joke shop. And then you smash them with your foot. They literally... Immediate. Immediately. It's sulphurous. But the joy, oh my God, Jen, the joy of seeing people walk into assembly and the teachers smelling this thing like it was severe.

And it lasted for ages. And then not reacting. And that's the thing about humour. Because I knew something they didn't know. And then you go, and everyone was going, and people were in it, my group were in it. And anyway, so we did the thing. Was this quite a formal strict school? Very strict.

And then I thought, got away with it. We were talking about it at the lunch break. Bloody six form prefect overheard us, snitched on us. And then my group said that I should own up. And I thought, why own up? Because I don't have moral fibre. There's something. I thought, look, we've done the thing.

Everyone is with you. I own up. I don't take it to the grave. So anyway, the whole class got detention and that was bad. But I thought that was a sharing thing. Yeah, I mean, that sounds quite a precocious, annoying instinct. It sounds great. But it was a giving.

It was a generous. And that thing of when somebody falls over and then they pretend they haven't is a joy. But you're enjoying the humanity of people doing funny, kooky things and you're observing human behaviour. In life. Before life went a bit askew, I suppose, in adolescence and stuff, and I failed a lot of exams, my true heart was to write and perform. Yeah.

And be David Frost. But if you're like, I think for me, being an actor felt like a legitimate job. Yes. So you're like, oh, I'll be an actor. Yes. And there's a training space. But really, you want to do the writing and performing. Well, it's interesting.

I thought, I think I'm a reasonably good actress. But did you go, and you went to drama school. I can see. It was a very dodgy course at certain drama school because I said, okay, fuck it. I went to Central. Yeah. Which is a proper, that is the proper drama school.

Yeah, but the course, the course, the course. Wait, wait, wait. Because this is a free war. This is pre-war. It's not pre-war. Yeah, just wait for you to say that, slightly slow. Anyway. And so I was in a postgraduate course

where everyone else was a teacher and I wasn't a teacher fuck knows how I got on it and then there was a scenario in the book which I urge you to read with the saucepan handle and it was quite interesting when I did get the review by the Guardian

I suddenly thought I was made because somebody, a grown-up interviewer came to interview me about this in my house where they, if they came here they would watch how you put the kettle on they'd make something of it Kerry walked over in confident manner Well you kind of feel self

actually she didn't mention it. You feel it overly watched? You just go, how am I being a bit needy, bit friendly? And then at one point in the article it said, I did say, am I shouting? Oh, I hate that sort of faux-psychology. And she seemed to lean to the left, which implied that she was scared. And I didn't think you're like, fuck off. Well then, but very early on, and she was lovely actually, very young, very politically brilliant and all that shit.

No, you know what I mean. And then I started talking about the angle of the saucepan handle quite quickly and because I think there had been a misunderstanding between us in the book about the sourcepan handle situation. Yeah. So I thought, I can't believe it. She's from The Guardian and I'm just going, no, hang on, can I just be clear with you about, anyway, so that was quite an intimate thing. It's like when you're in the sixth form common room and you're talking about sex.

Yeah, yeah. And then you just go for it. Yeah. And it was like, I've only just fucking met you and you're in my house on my sofa. And we're talking about the angle of something. The saucepan, yeah. But I'm not proud, I'm not shamed. I made that as amusing as I could.

I actually did do that on stage in 2018 when I went to Edinburgh. But I'm one of these people that are overlooked. You know, I mean, I am an overlooked person. Not like people trying to look at me a lot on a ladder. The opposite. It's the opposite to people trying at all. Your father, where was the same? Where was your father from? So he was born in Czechoslovakia, as I call it. And so then he had to, so they sent him out early or when Hitler came in, all that hoo-ha. So they sent him to Margate to a boarding school and then the rest of the family came out. So I have that kind of second generation inherited different history. Isn't my history. Kerry and I know, I know Elton very well, but you know, did a bit of shoplifting in the world.

Woolworth's and Elton High Street. In Woolworth's. I don't know if it was Walworth's, although I've made the odd thing for Rooters as well. What are you shoplifting for? Fun. Just larks, yeah. I mean, that's what you do. Got a lovely mascara from Wollies, I think.

Oh, right. You see. One one shoplifted from Wollies. No wonder it didn't. No wonder we shut out. Exactly. It was like they wanted you to. They just left it all unattended.

Did you shoplift? I took a picking mix once. I felt so good to you. I'll put it back. No, but you're, you've got moral fibre. I do. And I know you have. I've got moral fibre.

I haven't. The jury's out. I haven't, I don't think, or maybe more so now. Did steal a book from Elton Library about Chin and Chang or whatever they're called, Siamese twins. I became very fascinated about these Siamese twins. Chin and Chang? Just didn't put it back.

But anyway, yes, so I'm not completely English, but I am English, if you sort of mean. I feel like when you are second generation, often your parents, yeah, my mom's Spanish. Okay. So I think if you, like, immigrant parents tend to have quite high expectations of their children and what they want them to do. Did your parents sort of impose any of that? Were they like, well, we'd actually love you to be your doctor or lawyer?

Yes. So my grandmother, little brother, we had to call her, and the husband was called Big Baba, because obviously it was bigger. And then you forget, and you'd be at school going, anyway, Little Baba, they go, what? And you go, oh, sorry, my grandmother, sorry, because Little Baba's a bit embarrassing. But anyway, she would talk like this. She had a very, very strong voice.

She was hailing, healing, like this. And then if you, they lived in, house. Hamstead. And then if you turned up empty-handed, that was good. So I'd turn up. I was down the road, actually, as an adult, being a very bad social worker. So you'd always have to bring flowers or chop to a Helen, you shouldn't have. You shouldn't have. So it really was that situation. And she had a little flat in Hampstead, very strict. And so as children, we'd go up there every Sunday and they'd have that, they were, you know, in those days as well, people were brought up, you know, quite strict. It was through love.

And then I'd say a thing and she'd go on the contrary. And I never knew what on the contrary meant. And I thought, and now I thought it was on the country. So I just thought, oh, on the country. Okay. And so there would always be like debates. But she was, as you say, she was trying to, they were, their expectations were high.

Yeah. And because I wasn't, probably now I would have been tested for something. Rather, I don't know what herpes, don't know. I never had herpes actually oddly. But you weren't encouraged to go into performing or to creative life. No, because in Blackheath High School nobody went to drama school. Is that the same with you? Because they hadn't heard of it.

But I'm older, so they didn't. Well, no one I knew went to drama school. No. Wasn't normal. But once you find that community, then you're like, oh, it is normal. So how did you, I mean, like, it's, I mean, I feel like for me seeing women being funny of which you are one when I was. growing up, I really felt like, oh, I would, not that I wanted to do it, but I thought, oh,

wow, that would be what a wonderful thing to be able to do to make a living out, making people laugh. Yes. So at least when I decided I wanted to try, I had a frame of reference, Kerry. Yeah, we worked on you. Ellen had created a frame of reference. Oh, me. It's always the previous generation.

Yes, it is. It's the old see it to be it thing, isn't it? Well, we had Joyce Grenfell when I was at school and then she was wore those Rustley's frocks, didn't she? But I do remember watching on TV and I go, oh, well, that's nice. I quite like the energy. And then I love the David Trost program. That was the week that was.

Again, not your generation. But I knew that was sexy. I knew that was exciting. At the moment, because I'm touring the book, I do an interview with a person each time. And I'm really finding that interesting. So I can do the room and it makes me happy. Yate Library particularly, they started asking questions five minutes in. I thought, oh, doing workshop.

That's fine. go with this. And it's made me so happy because the pressure's off. Don't have to remember my line. Yes. Because of being old, that's not great. And just remembering the nerves and everything, which men get annoyed when you say you're nervous. That does annoy men a lot. So I've noticed. So maybe I should, if I did a show, would I do that? Have you seen Ben Elton show? I mean, no. One is so criticised for everything, because one's got to be the Oracle on all subject. But you don't have to listen to the criticism. No, there's that option. I'm not forward to that.

Really? There is a kind of muting out option. Do you read your... Well, I try not to. And if you're sort of... If you do read it, then you will go down that... Even the good ones make you crazy. Yes.

But it's a difficult one. Where would you like to do it, tour it? Yeah, I would... Would you do Edinburgh with it? I would. I probably have to practice before I did my Edinburgh. I've done made mistakes of going to Edinburgh, not practiced.

And then, you know... We've done that. So that's like, you know, and I did a really bad play. Like, we're all allowed to do, where I put Miranda on the cusp of her complete fame. I put her as a floor manager. And that...

What was that play? That was called Finger Food. I just had this epiphany because I was on powdered food where you could have unlimited coffee. So I was having a lot of fucking coffee. And then I had this image and epiphany that I know,

don't do the stand up because of the pain it requires do a play with food, live food, of course. So I phoned up literally then there the assembly rooms because they know me there. I said, is it free? They said, yeah, sure, you're in. I went great. And then I thought, oh, I'm doing play with food on it.

And then it was Richard Herring or Stuart Lee who told Jenny Aclare to get Miranda, so got her. Then she said she was 90% sure that she did. I thought, why? I just need 100. What do you mean? Like 90%. What does this mean?

These old posters, have you kept these from your, like, look at this. Is this your early stand-up notes? No, those are my, that's my diary, my melody maker diary in 1960 something. Can I just ask? John Dowey taught me at John's school. Did you? Yes. We taught us improv.

Look at what is the connections of whom we? Yes, John Dowey is a one-off unique. Well, I remember a lesson with him where we all, he said, right, lie on the floor. We all had to lie on the floor and then he went, you, walk on them, walk on their backs. And the person was like, okay, and he sort of tentatively started to,

and he went, don't be a prick, don't do everything everyone tells you to do, you fucking moron. Oh, my goodness. That was the lesson. That was your takeaway. Don't, if someone tells you to walk on your mate's back, you don't do it. Oh, that's kind of scary.

There's a lot of fear. There are mixed messages, isn't it? Yes. Some mixed messages there. And a lot of fear and they were all used to fear, aren't we? Yes, I hate all that and power. And the abuse of power. I love, but I love me.

I don't know why I've not been friends with women before. Keep meeting. I bet you have been friends with women. I haven't really. I haven't had that many in the business at all because of the competitive nature of it. And also we're not allowed to get together so often you're kept apart. And also there's a one in one out thing where you feel like, oh, we're in competition with each other. so we can't be allies, we have to be

competitors. But you two, where did you two meet? Oh, we hate each other. Right. Well, it shows. You're so mean. But you, did you, because everyone's doing pod. So did you go on the circuit? But it's Edinburgh where you hang out. Okay.

Because often on the circuit you don't have time to properly hang out. No. And then Edinburgh, you have space to do it. Yes. There's a lot of Edinburgh stories. There was, when we said about reviews, I was doing one with raw sex. Oh, I used to love raw.

So Kathy Burke Just used to crack me up And raw sex and me Well because they've got it So I had to go on second Because Simon Brent passed away now Decided that I should headline it You go error error error

But anyway In the Guild of Balloon Before they moved I think And anyway So then I'd pick up a paper I'd go I think I could probably afford To read this review

Because it can't be worse Than one before And guess what? Yeah And I just remember Really I'm actually reeling and actually probably having to lean

against some kind of Edinburgh brick wall to go, fuck, that's harsh. I remember once my friend, I did a double act show at Edinburgh one year and my friend just before it was with David. Yes, I know the show. I loved it. Well, you were the only person you did.

And then just before the show, David said to me, did you see that review that our mutual friend sent us? And I went, no. With that hope. Oh, no. voice and he went oh yeah it's bad and um and i read it and i i was crying through the whole show i had tears in my eyes whilst performing comedy wow there's nothing more awful than performing comedy with tears in your eyes it's your heart but there's something about edinburgh that really

magnifies all of those feelings yeah i remember doing edinburgh and i was walking one of my own business walking on the street was having an absolutely terrible year yes absolutely horrific year and I'd lost about a stone and a half in weight and I was just having, I was just very depressed. A comedian who I won't name crossed the road. Ran up to me and said, oh God, are you all right? Oh, I said, why?

And he went, oh, God, I'm so sorry about that review. Oh, and I said, no. What review? And he went, oh, haven't you seen it? And I went, no. And he went, oh, well, it's in the Scotsman. Anyway, so, ah, and anyway. And then what?

They walked off and I went, I immediately phoned by PR, I went, have I had a review out of the Scotsman? They went, you haven't read it, have you? And I went, what? And did you read it? Or did, it was enough? You didn't need to. You got the drift.

I did read. But that tells, that's so layered and I totally identify you that. And then, yeah, or else you'd see people looking at you in a kindly way, which is possibly worse. And I do remember on the finger food, you know, Jeremy Hardy, who I love very much, was there. Oh yeah, we all have been. He just said, yeah, I'm sure

he would champion you. But he said, yeah, I'm worried about you. I thought, please don't worry about me. It's when the worry comes, that the pathos begins. And then the tears in the eyes. Tears are clowns.

So tears, yeah, but interesting because you're a pro, you could work on two levels, so I'm sure you managed to perform. Sometimes, very much one level. So in the head is going out, but on the stage you're performing the other stuff.

But those rights of passage, are sort of part of it. I don't know if I would still do it because I can see that acuteness. I can read an audience and sometimes there's only so many things you can do to save it. I mean sometimes you can't save it. Or you try and save it.

You go, no, I should not be trying to save it. That was the wrong thing to do. You know, all these things, but you're constantly thinking, thinking, thinking. And all it is, and I would say now in the autumn of my time is going to rooms, not being prepared, being myself, finally, I mean I was a little bit mixed up today

but just being yourself at this age might just be the best I can hope for Helen, this has been everything that we've ever wanted and more and we haven't even gone into all your other pictures this coping thing I love because Harry Forget it yeah we've done it but that's a great

Ab-Fab fine dirt drunk slimming pills done We don't do that we don't do any more photos We talked instead Do you know what we are? I'm happy We've done the photos in the book. We've covered the photos. Let's have the stress.

Can we talk about, like, let's just, before we say. Kerry. Let's have the title. The title is, not that I'm bitter. Yeah. It's written by. It's written by Helen Ledra. And Joan Alumley said it's funny, adorable, thought-provoking in equal measure.

And Ben Elton said, funny, wise, brilliant and brave, just like its author. They're lovely quotes. They're lovely quotes. They were very kind to do that. We can highly recommend going to see Helen wherever she is live anytime in the near future. Or in a cafe where I'm sitting quietly making notes. If you're in the Grout show, go and have a glass of yellow wine with Helen. But before that, by her...

You're a total legend, Helen. And we love you. You really are. You've got an incredible career. I've got a free coffee. I've got a free coffee. No, I'm not bitter, actually. I mean, I'm not.

I'm alive. You're a huge success. I'm coming to see you. I'm coming to see your shows now. Yeah, I can fraternise. Let's write one. Let's fraternise from now on. Yeah.

I'm up for fraternising. Because it's quite a solitary path. And you're tying this up now. What was your final? You were going to go, and thank you very much. Goodbye. Yeah, let's do that. See, soft exit, soft entrance.

Hard exit. Hard exit. Soft open, hard exit. Soft entrance. What's that? My ticket's turned up. Oh, my God. Of course.

Why have it? Why didn't we open with this? The guy, because you had a lot to share. So the guy that lives on the other road, in the other house, on the other street. Yeah. He came round. He came round. He went, I've just got back from my holiday and found this on my Matt.

Right. And he said, I can assure you I didn't sign for. Who signed for it? Post person. No one signed for it. Yeah, the post person. I've met the postman. I met him.

I met him. He didn't speak any English at all. And I tried to have a conversation with him. It didn't go that well. And I just pretty much. much gleaned from the bits and pieces that we were able to communicate that he didn't get the signing thing. He just put it through the letter box of the wrong house. So that's, that was, that was that mystery sold. So he didn't even do the signing thing? No, no, because he didn't, he didn't,

he didn't, he didn't, clearly, he just probably just thought he was meant to sign it. So he just, oh, he's, he swiggled, oh, I'll sign it. Yeah. Right. He squiggled in the box and stuck it in the wrong house. So very much not. not really very successful postman posting. No, but the mystery has been solved. And I... The tickets have been retrieved. The tickets have been retrieved.

It's a victimless crime. It's a victimless crime. Yeah. And there's a perpetratorless crime as well. Yeah, yeah. And also, what I said, never in a million years, are you going to see those tickets ever again? You were wrong.

I was wrong. So how do you feel about that? Smug. Yeah, good. There you are. There you are. You're allowed. Feel it. Really absorb that. I can't wait. I cannot wait. Maybe you should be like the mobos where you just changed like several times during your set. Do you remember years ago when we saw Graeme? Who do I think?

I don't know, but this, I'm loving this anecdote. It's guess what Kerry's thing. Grace Jones. Grace Jones. Right. Do you remember years ago when we saw Grace Jones at latitude and she just changed between every track? she just went off stage. You could hear her talking. That was 2000. Has anyone ever died in your arms? That was 2007.

Yeah. Then she'd come back with a different outfit on. And we were like, Grace, she's smashing these outfits. You could be like that at Gastonbury. You could go off stage. And then come on with a hula hoop. Do you remember the hula hoop? The hula hoop on the head.

You could go off. Come back on, denim shorts. Go off. Come back on. Red linen suit. The suit's not linen actually. The suit's a different thing. All right.

All right. I know, but I know what you're getting it. I know what you're getting it. That's a lot. In my set, you mean? Yeah. I mean, that's one way of padding out 30, isn't it? I mean, it really is because it takes me quite a while, skip dressed.

You just go, anyway, I've just done the skip the tits bit. Hold that thought. I'll be back in a second and then go away to the wings. Darling's. Darlings. Have you ever been in a linen suit? And then come back. In Glastonbury whilst munching on some mushroom chocolate.

La da da da da. I'm Max Rushden. I'm David O'Dardy. And we'd like to invite you to listen to our new podcast, What Did You Do Yesterday? It's a show that asks guests the big question, quite literally, what did you do yesterday? That's it. That is it. Max, I'm still not sure.

Where do we put the stress? Is it what did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? You know what I mean? What did you do yesterday? I'm really down playing it. Like, what did you do yesterday? Like, I'm just a guy just asking a question.

But do you think I should go bigger? What did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? Every single word this time I'm going to try and make it like it is the killer word. What did you do yesterday? I think that's too much, isn't it? That is, that's over the top. What did you do yesterday? Available wherever you get your podcasts every Sunday.