Memory Lane with Kerry Godliman and Jen Brister - S03 E43: Helen Rutter

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

"My little heart just couldn't cope with it..." This week we have the brilliant author Helen Rutter on the pod! What an absolute delight it was chatting to Helen... Even if engaging with photos or nostalgia or the past isn't her strong suit... We chatted about how she got into writing, her dog Ronnie, her first ever publication, pigeons, doves, painting, David Hirst and so much more. Helen's books can round in most bookshops as well as her wonderful website - www.helenrutter.com We also have Kerry and Jen talking about Christmas, bad backs, sherry and pot noodles... Kerry's tour is on sale now - https://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/kerry-godliman-tickets/artist/1866728 PHOTO 1: Christmas PHOTO 2: First publication PHOTO 3: My love of Sheffield Wednesday PHOTO 4: Painting the Mona Lisa PHOTO 5: My crazy dog Ronnie PICS & MORE - https://www.instagram.com/memory_lane_podcast/ A Dot Dot Dot Production produced by Joel Porter Hosted by Jen Brister & Kerry Godliman Distributed by Keep It Light Media Sales and advertising enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk. Business. Hello and welcome to Memory Lane. I'm Jen Brister and I'm Kerry Godleman. Each week we'll be taking a trip down Memory Lane with our very special guest as they bring in four photos from their lives to talk about.

To check out the photos we'd be having a natter with them about, they're on the episode image and you can also see them a little bit more clearly on our Instagram page. So have a little look at Memory Lane podcast. Come on, we can all be nosy together. Oh, I can see a Christmas tree. I can see a Christmas tree. Oh, that's lovely.

Have you got yours up yet? Yes, downstairs. You in the mood? It's taken me ages. Like last year, December 1st, bam, in the mood. But this year, I'm like, I've really been struggling to get in the mood. It's been a tricky year, though, in it. It has been a tricky year.

I've just like, I can't really get into scripts with this. And I've been doing these Christmas shows as well. So it's been Christmas music a go-go. And they're walking on stage to Christmas music. Do you do Christmas jokes? No, I don't do Christmas jokes. Do you have a Christmas set? Do you have a Christmas set?

I've got a few jokes that I wheel out at Christmas time. Back from when I used to do the circuit more, I suppose now we're not a seasonally bound, but when I used to do like Christmas gigs, I've got a file in my computer of Christmas stuff, Christmas jokes. No, not doing that. No Christmas jokes. I mean, I can crowbar Christmas into it.

There you go. But it's not specifically. I haven't written it for Christmas. So you mention Christmas at Christmas gigs. The show's called live at Christmas. It's really hard not to mention it. It comes up. It will come up in the title.

Yeah. So let's do it now. So how do you go, you come out and you go, Happy Christmas. And then what do you say? No, I don't do that. I walk on stage with a huge amount of charisma. Okay, as is my way.

Well, that's a given, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then I'll grab the microphone because I'll need it in order to. You know what you're doing. This isn't your first rodeo. I've done this. before. Yeah.

As I'm putting the stantle on side, I say, good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to live at Christmas

here at the blah blah blah theatre. Tonight, you're not going to believe this, but you haven't got one but two,

but three, you've got actually four fantastic acts and this Lesbo. And that's how you start and then. And then I might go into your... So crowd work,

you do crowd work. I do crowd work. And if they bring Christmas content, you go with it. I don't acknowledge it. Don't acknowledge it. I've just,

I shut it down. So you willfully shut Christmas down at these Christmas as if there's a mention of Christmas I shut it down. I've never heard of it. I don't know what you're talking about. What? And then we move forward. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Because you need momentum behind you.

If you've got, if you've made a decision about something, you can't backtrack and you can't stop. You have to keep going. Bidibibibibibibib. So yeah, there's no minute. So that's it. There's just right at the top. I acknowledge that this show is called Live at Christmas. Yeah. And then we carry on.

When you close the show, do you say, have a nice Christmas. so you don't even go there. I don't, I don't do that. It's not. Wow. You really have carved out a very specific comedy voice. Yeah. In this Christmas.

Season. Yeah. Next year will be different. Interesting. How do you feel about that? I'm processing it. I'm processing it. I'm not judging it.

I'm not anti or pro it. I'm just doing what councillors do where they're mutually nod and reflect and go. And then what do you think that means? It means I'm not ready for Christmas. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I mean, I don't know what our listeners are making of this or even why we're having this conversation, but I just want to let you know that that's where I am psychologically this year. For me, Christmas is not quite there yet. But maybe it will. Maybe it will arrive on Christmas Day. The worst day of Christmas, I might add. Oh, yeah, because we talked about that before, didn't we? We liked the buildup, but not the event.

I don't. I love the buildup. Also, you've got an obligation to kind of fake it till you make it because you've got kids. You can't opt out of the Christmas. We've got Advent calendars. We've got, we've got elf on the shelf. We're doing all of it. The kids don't know.

Are you going to a panto? You're doing a panto? We usually do a panto. I don't think we are this year, but we are going to Christmas lights and we are going to a Christmas concert thing. So we're doing some Christmassy things. They're tits deep in Christmas. They haven't noticed that I, and also, don't forget.

Now, listen, I didn't say I hate it. I've just said I'm not into it yet. I haven't. You're not engaging with it. I'm semi-I've got a semi for it. I'm semi-engagement. I don't have a semi because I don't have... It doesn't matter.

Well, as a metaphor, we can use it as a metaphor. Let's use it. I've got a semi. You've got a semi-Christmas. That ended in a weird way, didn't it? It did. And I feel like I did that and I apologise. Right.

Kerry, who are we speaking to this week? This week we're talking to my friend, the wonderful children's author, Helen Rutter. I was so glad she was up for coming on the pod. Oh, yeah. Helen was fantastic. She's so much fun. And she featured very early in the world of this pod

because she is a woman, I slightly admire for many reasons, but one of them being, she doesn't give a shit about photos. So she was the perfect guest to come on a podcast, all about photos. It's unbelievable how, not only how few photos Helen has, but how little she knows about the photos that she has offered up.

Yeah, apart from the ones that aren't of her or of people at all. They're just objects that trigger memories. She's in them. She doesn't know what's going on. Yeah, I'm like, how old are you in this? I don't know. Where are you? Don't know.

Where did you grow up? But I think I really love that because it's kind of like an opposite to the excessive, you know, we're in a culture now of excessive sentimentality and nostalgia and recording every nano beat of. our lives and it's like she's just an antidote to all of that and she's a celebrant of like other things like creativity and and just other wonderful endeavors that are not just about taking constant photographs i really enjoyed uh this one particularly your relationship with helen was really fun and uh anyway this is us talking to the wonderful helen rutter we might be able to talk

about your turtle doves yeah i don't think they were turtle i don't know what turtle dove is but They were, yeah, I wanted pigeons, but I ended up getting doves, which are a bit... That's just not a normal sentence. Yeah. I wanted pigeons, I ended up with doves. Apparently getting racing pigeons was really difficult. So this was a Christmas present you wanted from Rob, when you put in a request.

Yeah, I wanted pigeon, not racing, I didn't want to race them, I wanted homing pigeons. Homing pigeons. You'd seen Kez or something like that. Yeah, but it's a whole world. apparently of real like you go down a big rabbit hole and and they won't just give homing pigeons to anybody and they clearly wouldn't give them to rob this writing shed that I'm in now actually one Christmas was full of doves that he was trying to hide from me and trying to get their magnets like you have to have them in a certain a certain place for quite a long time to get their

magnets all like hooked into the right place and so he'd hidden them from me in this shed for like two weeks. And then I saw them and then he revealed them. I know. I know. I know. I know.

You know this is going to become some sort of routine like the fucking dog stuff. Does Rob think he was going to hide a shed full of pigeons from you? Well, he did because this shit. He did. I didn't know that they were there. What? Because I never used this shed.

This shed wasn't, didn't look like it does now. It was like, it was, you know, It was full of a broken lawnmower and old paint pots. I didn't go in it. I didn't look in it. So I didn't see the doves. It's like a kind of Beatrix Potter meets Mick Reef. That's always like, what's it like to live with Rob?

Oh, well, there was this one time, let's a gift. You filled my shed from it, dubs. I love that you've got... I don't know. I love that you've got like this whole kind of... Because there's a picture of... So, Kerry, you brought your own photo. but, and I know we're supposed to do these in order,

but Kerry brought a picture of you with your kids and a dog and basically just said, this dog is a nutter. Why is this dog a nutter? Well, God rest his soul, he's no longer with us. But he wasn't eaten by anything, so that's good. But he had everything. What do you mean? Yeah, literally everything.

Everything, everything. Yeah, he ate things. You know, yeah, plastics, yeah. If he thought anything, anything, or any kind, yeah, any kind of feces. Any kind of rotting, rotting animal or, yeah, it was just unbelievable. And yet, yeah, yeah, lots of things that dogs aren't meant to eat. Yeah, huge, a giant toblerone, yeah, 24 mince pies. Is that all killing me?

Well, Luke's got a chocolate. Yeah, I know. He was the terminator of dogs. He was undestroyable. Yeah, he was something else, Ron. He was. Yeah, dogs do, some dogs do eat. Other dogs poo, don't they?

Is that a thing? I've never had a dog, but this is what I've seen dogs eat poo. Molly wouldn't. No, Molly wouldn't. Some dogs eat their own food. Molly's AI. I don't think Molly eats. I've never seen her eat anything.

Don't call my dog AI. Don't call my dog AI, mate. That's over the line. That's over the line. You can say what you like about me, but don't call my dog AI. Let's look at your photos, Helen. Which is the first one that we should look at? Oh, gosh, I don't know.

Actually, I think we can tell. I think we know. It's this one, isn't it? Is it this? This one with you at the Christmas tree. Oh. Can I just say I was a mate, I did warn Joel and say she might not have any photos. You didn't, yeah, you said Helen won't have any.

But the thing is, I said, I'll be amazed if she's got any. Yeah, but Helen didn't take this photo. Presumably Helen's parents took this photograph. Yeah, but she still had to source. it. This is a woman who, we referenced Helen very early on in this series because she is the person that I said is not remotely interested in photos. Yeah. But you have come out with some corkers. You have pulled some fabulous photos out of the bag. What's the deal with not, wanting or can't not be bothered about photos, Helen? Because I can kind of relate to it.

I just don't, I just don't really see the point. I think I've got, I love it. I don't, like how it's happened. I don't, and I, I was thinking, about this. I've got a really bad memory, really bad. So it's like showing me something that I can't really connect to it. Like obviously it occurred and I was there and I looked like I was having a great time and that's nice. Yeah. But I've met, it's gone. It doesn't. Yeah, but seeing the photo, isn't that the thing? All right, well, I don't remember it, but isn't it lovely that they've captured this moment because I can't remember it, but here it is and I can look back and go, That was me when I was doing that thing with a load of people.

I don't remember. Isn't that a lovely thing? You don't feel that at all. Not really. No. I mean, it was nice. When I had to look through, when I had to find photographs, it was quite nice.

I mean, I did throw a lot of photographs away when I was doing it. And I thought, God, this is part of this thing that I've got. I threw so many photographs away and it felt brilliant. I think that felt almost as good as seeing the good photos. Which ones did you been? Just like. beaches and buildings and sunset animals. Like, why would I ever want to look at a building that I'd seen 20 years ago?

That I don't even know where it is. That's fair. I love this. I find this deeply reassuring. In a world that's obsessed with posting and social media and hoarding every memory and sentimentality and mawish, you know, obsession with like, remembering, holding, holding. I just love Helen. She's a total punk.

She's like, fuck. That was the only Christmas photo that I had, actually, because when I saw it, it was the only one. I've not got any other Christmases logged at all in my life, which felt quite strange. And then that one looks so tragic and sad. Oh, it doesn't? You look at the tree. It's horrible. The tree's awful.

No, what's happened is your parents, this is, your parents grow this tree outside, and they've dragged it inside. Yeah, and they've decorated it. Yeah, I reckon. That looks like a, it's in a pot. It's not like on a stand. They're like, that looks like that needs watering. Right? It needs some love, definitely.

And yeah, it just looks so sad, I think, that picture. And the curtain that they've put around me. But you look like an angel. I mean, that's what I expect from children in the, what are we talking? 80s, 70s or 80s? 80s. 80s. So, yeah, I mean, people didn't go to Jeff Bezos and buy an angel costume that arrives in under 24 hours.

They got a bit of curtain down and wrapped some tints all round your head. Really, so let's all, everybody really zoom in on the tree. Look at that. That is a tree that has been decorated by a child. That is a tree. A tall child, they got right to the top. Well, maybe they stood on a stool. She's sitting on a stool.

Maybe Helen stood on the stool. But honest to Christ, if my eight, If Chloe, my partner saw a tree like that, she would have an absolute baby. She would have a meltdown. We were decorating the tree just recently because the tree went up and we started it. And then the three of us, me and my two boys ended up on the sofa. Chloe's like, what are you doing on the sofa? Decorate the tree is a family thing.

And I was like, yeah. And we were all decorating the tree. And every time we put something on the tree, you went, who put that there? Why is that there? And took it down. and then put it somewhere else. I said that's taken the joy out of decorating the tree. I love that your parents have gone,

we're going to let her do that. Isn't that the spirit of Christmas? I mean, I can't remember it at all. This is the thing. This is going to be the issue with this whole conversation is I can't remember that. I can't remember anything that I've offered up to you really. But all I know that it just makes me feel like that's a sad tree.

It is me. It is me. It is me. It is me. And it's a sad tree, but yeah, I like the idea that maybe it's a happy thing because the tree's so bad. They allow me to decorate it badly. Maybe that's a happy time. Helen, this is unique, I have to say.

This is so far. This is exactly the Helen content I wanted. This is so far. So exactly what we, what Kerry predicted and I'm enjoying. I don't think we've ever had a guest on that brought photographs go that has said absolutely no connection to this picture. But here you go. It was because it had a Christmas tree and it's nearly Christmas. And I thought, well, that's...

We can talk about Christmas. Let's get interrogative. Who took it? No idea. Okay. Where did you find it when we asked you to find some pictures? Where are we looking? Because your mum lives nearby, so you could have asked your mum to find this for me.

My mum lives in the garden. Your mum lives in the garden. And she, so she gave me... Can I just back that up? She lives in a house. They don't keep her in the garden. Yes. In a cabin.

Rob built her a house. Yes. In the garden. Yeah, and she can see me. Actually, I need to close the neck curtains because if she can see me in here, she'll come in. So how old do you reckon you are in that? About four?

Yeah. Yeah, do you think? Three, don't you think? And what were you like as a kid? That, I don't really know. I mean, I was a version of, I was a version of the way I'm now, I suppose. I was quite, I mean, I was you're happy. Were you a happy kid?

I think so, deep down. All right. Helen, have you got any siblings? Yeah, I've got an older brother who was five years old who might have decorated the top of that tree Oh, okay Possibly Were you mates?

Yeah, Because five years is quite a big gap It was quite a big gap And he was, you know, I was, he was, I adored him, I idolised him In fact, I'm seeing him later today But he was quite Ruth, he was quite me He was classic, you know, he would be quite mean

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he used to throw stuff like down the, He used to live in the attic and he used to call me to the bottom of the stairs. Helen, Helen with his mate. And I would always go, even though I knew that it wasn't going to be good. And then they'd both chuck stuff down at me.

Like, really, like, and then they'd gather it, like, laugh me and find it hilarious. Then gather all the stuff up, take it back up. Helen, Helen. And I would go back. You'd go back. You'd go back. Every time.

So that was, that's indicative of the relationship. Right, okay. I mean, that is a classic, yeah, sibling relationship. It's been... I do think I ever did that to my younger brother. I'd hate to think that I just threw... I'm going to be haunted by that now. Helen. And cute, that cute little kid. Yeah. Did you think he'd want to hang out? I thought he might, I thought I might be allowed up to see the fish.

He had a fish. And I wanted to go up and be... Right. See the fish. In his bedroom? Yeah. Yeah. Do you, um, do you mind your own... childhood sometimes when you're writing stories and stuff. What else is there to do?

Yeah, of course. The few memories that... Helen never emerged in one of your... Yeah, the throwing things down the stairs at a sibling is in is in a book, for sure. Some of the other stuff that he did isn't in because it felt too sad.

I did write... Oh, heaven. Like what? Shit. That's great. It's too sad. Yeah. Like when he used to make me warm,

15 steps ahead and I wasn't allowed to turn around and look at him that felt too sad. Enforced Grandma's footsteps. Yeah. And I wrote that and I just felt too awful and I was like oh my god he was really bad. So I didn't put it. And have you ever talked about it now? You're adults. Do you have a laugh about that? Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. And does he, as he apologised? Yes.

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which I've still got it's got a cassette tape where we recorded our voices and Sydney at the seaside what's that a story? story, Sydney at the seaside. Including the albatross and me. I mean more birds, more Avery. Yeah, that's a poem. Wow, this is great. I'm loving this. What's wonderful

about it is that it's an early publication, isn't it, of your work? Yeah, this was one of my first writings. I imagine that's why I included it because it just felt like, wow. I didn't ever think I was going to be a writer, but obviously,

clearly it was there. I was on the wall. When I was a kid, I don't remember ever thinking I wanted a bit of stand-up comedian, spoiler. But did you not, was that not one of your dreams? I was like, I'd love to be a writer. No. Not at all. I wasn't, no, no, no, not at all. I never even considered it.

Loads of authors. I meet a lot of authors now. And yeah, they're all like, I knew I wanted to be an author since the age of two. And it's just like. And they all sound like that as well. What? So, yeah, no, that was not in my head at all. I wanted to be an actress.

I wanted to perform. I wanted to be on stage. That's what I wanted to do from really, really younger. And writing, I wasn't massive. Like, I did stuff like that, like the magazine, and I did write diaries all the time. But I wasn't hugely brilliant at English. Like, I'm not brilliant at English.

When you were, when I first knew you before you were writing books, you were always writing shows. You wrote, you've always written. You write plays. Yeah. That's quite unusual. But, I mean, that's a great way as an actor. to be able to get to perform is to write stuff and then put yourself in it.

I always think that if I had gone into acting, that is something I would have chosen to do. Yeah. So hard to get cast. Exactly. That's why I did it. That's where actually writing started, where I realised that I enjoyed it was writing my own show and going,

oh, I think I preferred the writing bit to the performing of it. Yeah. Really? Yeah. When did that sort of realisation come to you? I did a show that was comedy. and I think the adrenaline of it was so big that I couldn't sleep and it was too much.

I felt totally overstimulated and I didn't, and I kind of thought, I would just wish somebody else could say those words and do that because it's too much for me. I couldn't cope with my little heart just couldn't cope with it. It was too busy. But the writing was so much fun of the ideas.

The coming up with the stuff, I loved it. And then realized, And then I think the combination of then having a kid who was at the age where I started reading like middle grade, like eight to 12, those books that are, you know, they're novels. And you can read them as an adult and get loads from them yourself. And I was reading those books to my son. And then I think that all came together. And when I had the idea for a story kind of inspired by him, it was like, oh, that's a book. That's not a play.

That's not anything else that I've done before. That's got to be a book. And it was pretty much a success straight off the bat. I mean, like, you, I know, I'm not saying, like, you just, you know, one minute you had the idea in the next minute it was published. But it was a fairly quick process, wasn't it? Yeah, it was a bit like that. I mean, there were, obviously there was loads of reject, like,

I think it depends, doesn't it, which bits of the story you get hooked up on. Like, I did send it to a lot of people, and a lot of people said no. But you got a yes, fairly quickly. Yeah. And it was published. So it's like, yeah, so it was really miraculous. You don't really hear stories like that that often. And it was super quick.

And considering I didn't really know what I was doing, I'd never tried to write a book before. It was kind of amazing. Tell us the name of that book just before we move on, because that's the one that was the first one. That was the boy who made everyone laugh. Tell us about that. That is about...

Based a bit on your son, but... Yeah, it's about a boy called Billy Plimpton who wants to be a stand-up comic. But he's got a stammer so he thinks that he can't do it. And so, yeah, Lenny has a stammer, and at the time was really struggling with it. He was about 10, 9 or 10 at the time. And he'd, yeah, he'd been really, you know,

had some difficulties with it, and been to speech therapy and all sorts of stuff. And then, yeah, just the idea to write, he'd never read a story about a kid with a stammer. And the only time he'd ever read anything to do with him, stammer's was in a book and he called me and he was in bed and he said mum is this okay it says here he stammered like an idiot oh mate um oh god does it feel okay he said no it doesn't feel okay with that's like well he's not okay then and he ended up we were I was like just a bit like

oh god I don't know what to do about this and I said why don't you write to them and just tell them that as somebody with a stammer, that, you know, that makes you feel bad. And so obviously, this gorgeous little cute email comes from this kid to the publisher, who I think actually ended up being the same publisher as one that I'm with. And they sent him loads of free books and just said, you know, this was really old. You know, we wouldn't do this now. Obviously, thank you. We wouldn't have that kind of language in there now.

Thanks for highlighting it. And here's loads of free books. Oh, that's a nice story. Yeah, it was lovely. It's interesting, isn't it? Because there's a lot of conversations about, you know, there's always been this sort of feeling around children's literature that are things like Enid Blyton or whatever,

they age out and that it's the language we don't use anymore. And there's much more of an available kind of palette of people that are in children's books now. And you're sort of part of that movement of like that kids need to feel seen. Yeah, and included. You're part of that. community of writers that have offered that. Yeah, totally.

And seeing, when I wrote this story, see it reading, I read every chapter out to Len, you know, every day, he got back from school and he'd just be like, have you got the next chapter? And I read it out to him and witnessing firsthand your child being seen in a story and then what that did for him. And then when it got, when it was actually going to be published, it just was unbelievable.

Like he started buying me a little. present. Oh, Helen. What's happening? What's it doing? And I think it was just so amazing that I think he felt it made him bigger and like, oh wow, my story actually is important enough to be, that my mum's written it and now other people want to read it.

Yeah. And also what I love about the boy who made everyone laugh is that because it taps into our world of stand-up. So you kind of married to. perfect things, like a kid trying to f it in, and then this stand-up comedy world that you knew really well from being married to a comedian. So that's the union that must have been like, oh, I know both those things really well. Yeah, in the first, I mean, in the first draft, he didn't even want to be comedic. The first draft was so bad and so different to what actually

ended up. But that moment where I was like, oh, he needs to be a comedian. Like, that's clearly the thing because at first he wanted to be a drummer. It didn't even make sense. He wanted to be a drummer which didn't like, wasn't connected to speaking. He wanted to be a pigeon. He was a pigeon. It just wasn't. It just was totally

yeah, non-sense-cical and then when I had that idea, it was like, oh of course because I know that world. And then when I had the idea. Yeah, it's public speaking. And I know it and I can have a joke at the start of every chapter. So it'll be like a joke book and a book book.

And I was just like, because like there was in this magazine and this and that magazine, there's a massive long page of jokes because kids just love. Kids love it. We've got loads of joke books. Since having written the book, there's a, I've met a few people who are like, oh yeah, yeah, I have a stammer. And not that you'd know, not that you'd even know it, but there's quite a lot that still feel it and have their ways around it.

But I think it's, I think there is probably, I don't know, there's, It feels like, it's all made up, but it feels like there's a lot of people with stammer who end up in these kind of professions. I don't know why that would be, whether they be, you know, performers, singers, actors. But there seem to be quite a lot. But there are a lot of people with stammer,

so I guess that's why it's really, really common. Is that what you discovered, when led, developed one, you just learned a lot about that whole, how that situation arises. Yeah. There's a big, world, there's a big community of people out there

that are you know, Ambassador trying to get people with stammer's on the radio or on tele just so that people can hear them because you don't really recognise them a lot of the time because they don't always sound like a classic

stammer and so actually hearing different types of voice on, you know, tele or radio there's lots of people out there trying to get that to happen just so that you can understand it and go, oh, that person's got stammer, right, the best thing to do is just wait. I'm not going to try and guess what they're going to say or help them or finish their sentence

or tell them it's okay, I just need to wait. And that's kind of the biggest thing that I think the community of stammerers and of people that are trying to do stuff is just getting it out there that, you know, this is what it is and it's all right. You can just be patient. Yeah, we flex. Yeah. We all have. to flex for different people's styles of communication you know yeah but I don't think that

you need to get better at it yeah but I don't think generally that message is out there so that's quite good to have it like I mean I don't know that message Helen so I think that's a good message to have yeah I didn't and I think it goes against

our natural inclination which is to try and help people and so it's kind of like watching somebody's struggle doesn't feel natural. And so you instinctively do something, you want to do something. And I often did it with Len. And he had to, you know, we had to talk about it. And he would have to say that you, you just did it, mum. You just, you just tried to figure out what I was going to say. And it was like, oh, and I really had to like practice. It's a muscle you have to practice

to just not do it. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Well, remember that next time because my instinct would be to like try if nothing else try to reassure them and go oh don't don't worry it's fine take your time rather than just go well actually that's not helping yeah so just to like because that is that that does go against your instincts isn't it so anyway that is good to know and that should be a message that should be out there but I just don't think it is and being a child which are all your all your characters all your protagonists are children aren't they So being a child, obviously that is all very heightened because the world to a child is everything is for the first time, isn't it, experiencing all that development and learning and, you know, are they the perfect conduit for these kind of stories? Oh, yeah.

I mean, well, when you're raising kids and you see them experiencing things for the first time and the, like, the intensity of the emotions around them, it's just so, yeah, it's so dramatic, isn't it? And so writing stories about that level of intense emotion and when you feel like something is the end of the world and then the next day it's changed and you're like, oh, oh, it really was at the end of the world. Like that's perfect for stories because you want massive highs and lows in a story and that's what kids are going through. So it's like it just offers up so much, you know, like drama in a story and that's just what kids are living with.

I mean, imagine it just must be exhausting. I would not want to be that age again. Oh, no. Oh, no way. And also you forget, I mean, like you said, we don't have great memories. So when the kids come home with some of their dramas, and I'll go, well, just tell them.

And they're like, are you mad? I'm never going to tell them. What do you mean? Tell them. Like, they don't have the equipment to just emotionally articulate their feelings. And even if they did, the person they're saying to it,

It doesn't have the emotional intelligence. No one's got the equipment. Yeah, or maturity to be able to manage that information. So, you know. There's no value in your mum going, just say what you're saying? Just say it. Just say. I was saying the other day, I'm always saying to my daughter, you know, if you like someone, ask them out.

Which, I mean, what are you talking about, Kerry? Even I know that's crazy. I did. Imagine going up to a 17-year-old boy and going, do you want to? Why not? Why not? It's like 10-year-old boys are very malleable. Exactly.

But memory serves me correct. I know. Very suggestible. But very easy to overwhelm. Yeah, correct. That's how I got Ben. Overwhelming. It's the emotional equivalent of chucking a net over there.

Dragging them back. This next picture you must have been pretty overwhelmed. I don't know who this is, It's clearly someone important. Look at my face. I mean, I am overwhelmed. Who is it? I like he's got his keys on a chain.

Oh, yeah, they're not going anywhere. That is 90s Sheffield Wednesday hero, David Hurst. Oh, a football star. Nobody would know who that was unless you were into Sheffier Wednesday, specifically in the early 90s. And he was huge, was he? Was he big, is he a big guy? He was really, yeah, he was.

He was my favourite. And I, but the only time I have ever been interested in taking photographs is outside the Sheffield Wednesday ground in the early 90s when I used to hunt down the players and stand next to them with my eyes looking wide and overwhelmed. And so I've got pictures of me with David Hurst, with Chris Waddell, with Paul Warhurst.

You know that name. I couldn't find that photo. Andy had a modlet, but I couldn't find that one. Hoddle and Waddle and Waddle. Wow. So isn't this interesting? This is the only area of your life

when you've been interested in photography. Yeah, yeah. And where are all this catalogue of pictures of you with all these footballers? I don't know where they've gone. I've only got David Hurst left. Yeah, it's sad. Did you have their posters up and stuff?

Yeah, and I had, yeah, obviously I had all of the kit. I mean, the sad thing is that shirt, that football shit I'm wearing, I got them to sign the back, and I had all of the Chevy Wednesday players on the back of that shirt signed. Where is it? Well, this is a sad, get ready.

I was so proud of the shirt. Like, it was my pride and joy, and they were expensive, and the fact I even had a football shirt was kind of amazing anyway, but to have the signatures on the back, and I loved it so much. And then I was going to put it up on my wall, and I thought, I'll iron it. What a football shirt?

You can't iron a football shirt. It'll melt. It just melted. Oh, Helen. just melted. Helen. I know. I know.

And I had an iron, like an iron hole in it in the back. And it was so awful. And I put it, I did still have it up, but it was too sad. It was ruined. That is really.

It's a good story though. Has that ever made it to a book? No, it hasn't. Maybe, no, maybe. I want to write a football book actually. I want to write a, yeah, write a football player. And the ironing of the football topic

is going to want to see it in literature. The fact that you actually still. put that up with the holes on iron. That is truly really made me feel very sad for you. That's annoying. What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it?

Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. Way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bell Air Direct and use the money to fix your car. Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified.

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are made for the times your boss said the what now? Or your teacher mentions that thing Need to pick me up. Snack back to reality with Tim's new cravable raps, available in Chipotle or ranch. Plus tax at participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. What is this picture? What is happening here? Ah, that is my version of the Mona Lisa.

So you're the artist? So, look at it, I am an artist. It's quite clear how artistic I am. I genuinely think you are artistic. I mean, it's, it really is something else. So basically, I look, obviously, you know this about me, Kerry. I love a craft. I love any kind of, kind of creative pursuit.

I will wholeheartedly embrace it. And I've really committed to any kind of crafting activity. And I committed to painting. The Mona Lisa. And you would not believe how long that took me to paint. I can't believe. And if you count her fingers, you may find an extra one,

which was not intentional. Oh, she's got five-fiz. It's like that fake picture of Kate, what's her chops? It's been A-I'd. She's got extra digits. She's got extra digits. But also, look at her, and what politician does she remind you of?

Oh, David Cameron. It's David Cameron. Yeah. With a wig on. You were channeling David Cameron. Isn't that the most amazing thing? I've always thought he's got an enchanting smile, David Cameron. Well, exactly, and his eyes just follow you around the room.

Do you know what? Do you know what? Now that we've seen that, I can't understand it. It's up in my living room. It is the most, honestly, I'm so proud. And it's, I think the thing is about creativity is it comes from somewhere else and you don't know how it's, how it's appeared, whether it be, you know, whatever it is, whether it be, whether it be, when you're, when you're, you know, when you're, you know, when you be, when you're, you know, when you're. when you're on stage or, you know, a book or whatever. But this painting just embodies that.

I don't know where that came from. It wasn't me. Yeah. So why did David Cameron come and join the Mona Lisa? I don't know why. When did you paint it? Was it during the Cameron years? No, it was...

If it was pre-the-camera years, then you are spooky. Pre-post-Brexit, was it? I'm wondering whether it was pre- or post-Brexit. Pre-lockdown or not. I think it was just pre-lockdown because I did some more in lockdown. I did a Rod Hull and Emu which was really also amazing

and that one, Rob went on to sell that at a charity comedy night. Wow. Yeah, and somebody paid £100 and put it in the downstairs toilet. Oh, wow. That is pretty special. You're not going to want to let go of this one.

You can't let go of this one. You can't. I don't think I can't. No, you can't. Oh, Helen, thank you so much for those. And Helen, tell us what, if you've got a book out and you book out at the moment? Or do you want to talk? What's happening at the moment?

Yeah, so, yeah, I had two books out this year. One's called me and my Brian. I would show you, but they're on the shelf. Me and my Brian came out in September, end of September. And then the previous one was Reggie Hauser has the power, which has got loads of mind control tricks and, like, it's all about, like, hypnosis. Did I try them on yet? What fun that was.

So all that stuff is in the book Reggie Howes Has the Power where he tries to, he wants to learn all these tricks and there's loads of stuff you can try at home so it is a lot of fun. And I'm just finishing my next book, which is so exciting. I can't actually wait for it to come out in spring. That one's coming out. Call The Boy with Big Decisions and it's kind of interactive. You get to make choices for the character.

Oh, he loves those books. Choose your own adventure. Choose your own adventure where you can decide where the... Oh my God, I love those books. You can read it again and again and again, can't you. There's loads of roots and this kid in this story can't make decisions. Like that's his... So I used to love to choose your own adventure books, but they're always fantasy, weren't they?

They were always kind of like, do you want to slay the dragon or go into the, you know, cavern or whatever? And I was always a bit more. I liked... I wanted that, but like Judy Bloom. Do you know what I mean? Totally. And so this is kind of that, like this kid, really struggles to make decisions because his parents are quite controlling.

And then when he gets to a point where he's like, I don't know what to do, you choose for him. And so you see whether his moral choices about being a good friend, all of that, yeah. It's exciting. Our kids all love that. Oh, that's great. And when's that out? That's out in spring. So kind of, yeah.

Great. That sounds amazing, Helen. All of these books are a perfect Christmas presents. Ding, ding. Yes, they are. I'm genuinely so impressed because I know how hard it is to write a book. And how many have you done then? How many books have you got out?

So people can start collecting. There are six out now. So seven and eight are coming out. So yeah, seven and eight are in the pipeline. Flip-in' heck. Helen, you're a machine. I'm definitely going to be getting those. I can't wait for the...

I know they will. I'm already... I'm going to be Christmas one. Don't get the one signed for that kid for 200 quick. No, that's the one I will be swerving. Yeah, thank you. Can I put my robot massage machine back on now? I've got backache.

Yeah. And I've got a little robot massage machine. Put it on. We'll just say to the listeners, if you hear a vibration in the background, it's... Can you see what's happening to me? I'm sort of like...

Yeah. Yeah, that's because I've got a robot masseuse. Yeah, you've got a robot masseuse. And it's getting right in between my ribs where the muscles ache. Okay. good because it's good to acknowledge what that vibrating thing is in the background. Yeah, I mean, it'd be awful if it went carried away in the wrong direction with what they thought. Are you, are you Christmas ready?

Are you mince pying? Are you mould whining? Yeah, we've had mince pies. I haven't mulled wind, but I have minced pied. And I've even had some Christmas cake. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's too early for Christmas cake. You can't have Christmas cake.

I've eaten a whole one already. You can't. You've got to save it. It's supposed to be... No, you can eat through the month. But you're supposed to steep it, aren't you? Yeah, but I bought it from a shop. I didn't make it.

I didn't make it. I'd love to make one, but apparently you have to start them in late August. You have to... What? Apparently, that's what sometime mean. I said someone or I might make one and they went, it's far too late. I mean, it is far too late.

You should be making it in like September, late August. Oh, I think late August is a stretch. I haven't got a personality for that kind of patience. I don't have a personality. I'm making a Christmas cake. I'm meeting it. I... Chloe's aunt does the Christmas cake

and so she feeds it. So you feed it with booze. Oh, like a sourdough feeder. Yeah, I don't know. You're feeding a bit of food. You're feeding. You've got to finger the yeast, haven't you? Yeah, you've got to finger it and you've got to feed it to keep it alive.

So you've got to do the same for a Christmas cake and you put booze in it. I don't know what booze you put in it. But anyway, you put some kind of booze in it and it... Not Malibu. It's going to be sherry, in it? Everyone goes absolutely bananas for sherry at this time of year. No one drinks sherry. Guys, let's just pipe down.

Bailey's and sherry. And port. And port. Yeah. I mean, I got my sherry out. I don't drink much, as you know, because I never mention it. But I did get the sherry out the other day for my mum and had a little sniff and thought, I get it. I understand it.

I love it. You only need a little bit of sherry out. though. You don't. It's a bit like port. You don't need. No one wants a pint of port. You know, you just need a little bit. I had a, I tell you what, I went out for a roast dinner and instead of having a pudding, I had a little cheeky glass of port and it was lovely.

You're so sophisticated. Why is that sophisticated? I don't think port sophisticated. Am I? Oh, good. Yeah. I think of you as a connoisseur of the finer things. Sophisticat. I do like the finer things, actually. Well spotted. Yeah. I do. You're like, I'm not fucking about with a pot noodle here, mate. I want.

No. A tiny little post in a glass of port. Well, I don't think many people are having a pot noodle as pudding. Can you imagine? Some scum bag is somewhere. We've said we've got to try, we got like treacle pudding, we got like brownie and ice cream. Oh my God, chicken and mushroom pot noodle. I'm Max Rushden.

I'm David O'Darney. And we'd like to invite you to listen to our new podcast, What Did You Do Yesterday? It's a show that asks guests the big question, quite literally. what did you do yesterday? That's it. That is it. Max, I'm still not sure. Where do we put the stress?

Is it what did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? You know what I mean? What did you do yesterday? I'm really down playing it. Like, what did you do yesterday? Like, I'm just a guy just asking a question. But do you think I should go bigger?

What did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? Every single word this time I'm going to try and make it like it is the killer word. What? Did you do yesterday? I think that's too much, isn't it? That's over the top.

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