Memory Lane with Kerry Godliman and Jen Brister - S04 E07: Alys Tomlinson

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

"I remember when I took the picture... I had the cloak over my head and she was looking into the camera and I felt like she was looking into my soul..." We have our very first professional PHOTOGRAPHER Alys Tomlinson on the podcast this week. It's only taken 4 series to get a pro onboard. Alys is a photographic artist based in London. She works mostly in black and white analogue on a large format camera, exploring themes of faith, ritual and identity as well as being a wonderful human being... Although her sister might not have agreed when they were growing up... Check out where you can see Alys' film MOTHER VERA - https://www.motherverafilm.co.uk/ ...And her website here - https://www.alystomlinson.co.uk/ Plus... Kerry and Jen chat about Glastonbury, Severance and Jen's home made top trumps. JEN & KERRY STAND-UP TOURS Kerry's 2025 tour is on sale now - https://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/kerry-godliman-tickets/artist/1866728 Jen's 2025 tour is on sale now - https://www.jenbrister.co.uk/tour/ PHOTOS PHOTO 1: Breaking Down PHOTO 2: Makeover PHOTO 3: Acid Jazz PHOTO 4: New York / Time Out PHOTO 5: Belarus Monastery PHOTO 6: Mother Vera (film) PICS & MORE - https://www.instagram.com/memory_lane_podcast/ A Dot Dot Dot Production produced by Joel Porter Hosted by Jen Brister & Kerry Godliman Distributed by Keep It Light Media Sales and advertising enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Because when a child is sick, family stays, and Ronald McDonald House stays with them. Hello, and welcome to Memory Lake. I'm Jen Brister and I'm Kerry Godleman. Each week we'll be taking a trip down Memory Lane with our very special guest as they bring in four photos from their lives to talk about. To check out the photos we'd be having a natter with them about. They're on the episode image and you can also see them a little bit more clearly on our Instagram page.

So have a little look at Memory Lane podcast. Come on, we can all be nosy together. The good news is Joel that me and Jen are going to Glastonbury. The good news is we're going to Glastonbury. Glassbury Festival. I hope you're ready for us because we are coming to Midlands Women. Jess.

Jess is coming. Yes. Ben nearly came. Ben was really because of Neil Young. So Ben was like, oh, maybe this year. And I said, baby, you get a first refusal. You can have first refusal.

And he gave it a good long think. And then he went, let Jess go. Yeah. I actually think Ben would enjoy pockets of it. Yeah, I do. I do. And we had a big talk about it. And there's a bit of me that wants him to come.

It's a very social. thing. You know, we all hang out by, in between the... And he'd love that. He'd love to be in between the toilets and the generator. Yeah, he'd love that. Reading his book. With that waft of, what is that? Shit. Yeah, shit, that's it, yeah.

Human shit. I... Human feces, yeah. Okay. Yep, what is that? What is that? What is that? Is that a poo? A cup of a finger on it. Yeah, it's shit. Don't put your finger on it. I would recommend you keep your finger away from it. But a lot of the time, how many times? How many times

have we missed about five bands because we've just been sitting outside drinking tea and eating ears. Yeah. How are you guys. Can we just talk about the weather? Oh God, thank you. Like really middle-aged women. I was really hoping you'd bring the weather up. I really was. I'm not even joking. What a goddamn relief. I went swimming three times last week and it was just such a delight. Yeah. I mean, how amazing that the sun finally come out. But I could feel it. You know, like you can't feel it in January, February. You can't feel it. You can see it, but you can't feel it. I could actually, I mean, it just grazed the back of my neck and it felt incredible. Oh, man. And the daffodils are out now.

I felt actually euphoric. Yeah, me too. That last week of February, I was like, this has to end now. This winter has to end now. Yeah. When will it end? When will it end? I mean, I'm not normally so seasonally sort of, you know. You are. Am I? Yes.

Am I? I am much, I am happier in spring and spring. summer. Yes, you're a different person. Yeah. Although I, let's not forget how much you love autumn. I do love autumn. We've got SAD. And I don't even mind winter. But that end, that death rattle of winter this year, Jesus Christ. Yeah, I think we had too much great. But the sun is out. Yeah? I feel good. I'm stopped wearing my thermal socks, Kerry, just to give you a bit of background.

Lovely. Well, you've got to knock them on the head. Put them away now in your winter They are away. I wore them the other day. You've caught their socks out. And my feet were too hot and I went, it's time to put these to bed and that felt good and that means officially winter's over once I put my thermal socks away.

It is this kind of content that I think people have been gasping for gasping for. I hope those two chat about the weather and thermal socks. Oh, we've done it now. Yeah, we've done it. What else is going on?

I'll bring up my orthotic insoles later. We'll talk about those later. It's not now. What else? What else is going on? Well, I want to show you this. I've had some top trumps made. here they are for my 50th

okay these are my top trumps and you're in it here you are am I high scoring yeah your task master your top trump file says

master of tasks tells it like it is loves a bit of orcs so coolness loves a bit of orcs in reference to I'm gonna do

I'm gonna compare you we're gonna compare each other now bearing in mind that this was made for my 50 years. Who made it? Who made it? My friend's Bex-a-Neil. So that's me, and it says I'm called Harry Stales because I do an impression of Harry Stales.

He's used to work in the... Works up in the North as a fantastic album out. I can't even do the impression because it starts to get very unpolitically correct. Anyway, my top Trump's file is Queen of Comedy, lover of 19 crimes. one woman rage machine that's me okay so taskmaster coolness you've got 78 i've got 100 so i'm less cool than you i'm afraid so but you made 78 which is that's all right then i'll take that

insane one i got 100 because it's my 50th yeah i kind of got that i didn't want to say it yeah you got 78 why did you get 78 i actually said that i actually 8% cool okay all right Agility. Agility. Forty-eight out of a hundred. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck them. Are you trying to... I'm agile. I'm agile, mate. I do yoga. I am agile. Well, we need to, I'll take it up with them. Feed that back. So what would you give yourself? 78. 78. 78. 78. You just give yourself 78, 78, 78. Okay. I just to let you know, I've got agility 54. We're agile. I'm very agile. You're an agile person.

Well. What the hell are they measuring us against? I don't know. Olympians. It's this, I feel like it's fairly arbitrary. Navigation skills. Maybe I'm getting too involved. No, wait, navigation skills, 53 for you.

Well, that's bollocks. I've got a sat nav. Okay. I don't get involved in any navigation. Haven't, I haven't for over 10 years. I would have given you one. I've got Google Maps, got Ways, got all those guys. I've got navigation skills 31.

I've got Google Maps in ways. Where are you going without a Google map? Upstairs. Sometimes I free, don't listen. Upstairs? How do I get back downstairs? I'm improvising. I'm like, oh, I might head out to Matlock.

I don't know where that is. Let's see where we end up. I know where Matt Lock is. Oh, good. Middle is it. Okay, fine. Competitiveness. Competitiveness.

Oh, shit. I'm not going to do well in this. What do you think you've got? Really high. That's what I put you at. I put you at 99. Yeah. Do you know what you're going?

got? What? 12. These people really don't know me. They don't know me. Okay. I've got competitiveness 901. Oh me, Jen. Me and you are just the same.

We're both in the 90s on that one. I'm working on it. Future me is 50. What is that's indeed? I put my hand up in the camera. Oh, that's it better. Oh, fucking hell. Okay, go on.

Okay, last one. This is hand size out of 100. These categories are bullshit. Just to say, if I was to do your hand size, it would be eight out of a hundred. What have they given me? 61. What the fuck is hand size?

The size of your hands. I said, Kerry's got the smallest hands of any person I know. A tiny hands. The tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny. Tiny child sounds. When I went to my first piano lesson, she made me put my hands on the keys, and she went, oh, what funny little hands.

Yeah. I never went back. Well, just so, and lastly, I'm just going to do Chloe. I'll just rip through Chloe. Chloe, Chloe's called Tiny Hands. Her top Trump's file is, exceptional knowledge of bird song and pearl jam, trotters for feet, loves an animal print.

Never has there been an description better for Chloe. Do you know what though? That could be me as well because I've got trotters for feet and I love an animal print. So she could be my spirit animal. Exactly. But Chloe's hand size, one. Smaller? One.

Anyway, those really made me laugh those top. That's a great present. Yep. Some people find some really good gifts. That's brilliant. It's a great, isn't it? My friend told me the other day that their family, like they've got a big family that they hang out with. At Christmas, they made a monopoly that was all based on their...

lives, streets and schools and... You can make your own monopoly. It's wild. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's so much effort, isn't it? It's so much effort and apparently it's quite expensive and I wouldn't be able to remember most of the data that is required for the board. I don't like monopoly.

But as a concept, it's fun. Oh, it's brilliant. And then if I was to play Monopoly, then I'd rather that have. I mean, where would you be? I think you'd be Whitechapel, Old Kent Road. And I'd probably be the Browns. Fair Park Road. Yeah, I'd probably be the blues. It's not, it's that thing, I don't know what to say.

I'm not projecting anything onto that. I'm just saying that I think that's probably the likely. I don't agree. That's how that would work. I'm not sure about that. Yeah. No. Okay, who are we talking to today, Jen?

Today we are talking to, who are we talking to again? We are talking to the brilliant photographer, Alice Tomlinson, who I was over the moon that she came on. Yes. To tell us about her incredible career. She's such a talented photographer. she's lived quite an extraordinary life and telling us about her film and her books and and how she got into photography as well

it just feels like that doesn't happen to normal people no it does it happened to Alice yeah I really enjoyed this conversation it was so lovely to talk to someone about photography when we have a whole podcast which is all about photographs exactly exactly well done us we're so well done Alice yeah so this is us we had such a lovely chat with Alice Tomlinson So you grew up in Bryson? Yes.

Oh my God. So lucky. When I go back there, I have a kind of yearning for it, but then when I go back, it just reminds me of being a teenager. And I'm not sure I could imagine. It feels a bit regressive, weirdly, for me. I was there until I was like 18. My dad's still there.

Too many ghosts. Ghosts in the past. But a cool place to have ghosts. I mean, my ghosts are in Greenford, and no one would go back there. No one's like, shall I move back to Greenford? I just longed to be by the Westway. It's calling me. That is true.

I mean, Brighton will always be cool, even if you grew up there or you go back at some point. It was a cool place, but I feel lucky. It's quite a cool place to say I've left that. Yeah, I moved on. I've moved on from my friend days. I haven't. I've moved in. Yeah.

Well, I suppose this partly came around, totally when it dropped into our head to ask you to do this. We were doing a Zoom thing. What are you doing with your face? And there was a photograph. Do I don't judge me or comment? And there was a photograph in the background. And you said something about it being a picture of Elsie.

And then I went, no, no, no. this is me and you've taken it because Alice has taken pictures like posters I've used over years, lovely Edinburgh poster that went my first Edinburgh show and things like that. And I always love getting my picture taken with you because you're... I just always feel like I'm you, like me when you take the picture. Whereas I don't know who I am, partly, but also I don't know who I am sometimes. When people are taking pictures, I'm like, I look back at them and think, who is that? That is not me.

Then I was like, oh Alice took this issue. He's a friend, she's a photographer. And then we were like, hang on, we've got a photography podcast. We should get a photographer on. So, hence, asking you to do this. Thank you. You can actually enlighten us on how to take. I can try.

I give you two tips. Because your pictures are very cool. So have you always had an eye for photography? Well, I remember my dad actually in Brighton gave me his like Pentax 35 mil. I don't know what that means. I mean. I've gone in very technical. Is that like a brownie?

I've heard of a brownie. Pentax is a make of count. camera. Right. And 35 mil is the size of the negative. So it's like a regular film camera that probably your parents had when you're growing up. And I remember roaming around Brighton taking pictures of that. And how old were you? Maybe 14, 13. Right. Yeah. And just feeling good. Just feeling like it connected with me and it was a way for me to communicate how I saw the world. I always find it fascinating because like, no offense, Kerry. I know you're going to offend me now.

I'm going to offend you now. But we're not good at taking photos. Oh, how dare you? I found the portrait setting on my iPhone and I've never looked back. That's quite a win of the portrait settings because obviously the background's completely blurred out. And you can get good features on you? Can you get, well, maybe work part of that. But I find it really interesting because there is, you know, normally when you, someone says you've got an automatic camera, you can take a picture.

but I just don't know how to frame a picture. I don't know what I'm doing. Even my partner, like Chloe's like, who, what are you doing? Why am I in the middle of this picture? I'm like, because you're the focus. I put you in the middle of the photo. You're not framing it properly.

And you just had an instinct from that. Just hadn't it. It was, yeah, it was the way I saw the world in a sense. Had you been exposed to photography? Yeah, well, my mum was a film studies teacher outside of Brighton. So I suppose like visual kind of communication, like film and photography. And I remember going to Diane Arbus, I don't know if you know an American photographer, Diane Arbus.

He's quite haunting black and white work, an exhibition at the V&A when I was really young. Yeah. And I remember feeling something when I saw that work. I felt very kind of moved by it. Yeah. I understood the way she looked at people through the lens. Yeah.

I do remember thinking that. But I also, my family, they were creative, but not in an obviously creative way that my dad's an academic and my mom taught film. But it wasn't like we were going to like pottery classes orthography lessons. But Brighton, I mean, if you're growing up in that part of the world. The thing is, it Brighton, everything's there anyway.

So I suppose you're absorbing. I don't want to do pottery, leave me alone. Actually, I did remember going to ceramic glasses once, and it was awful. And I used to, you know, bring home the most terrible-looking objects that mum would be like, lovely darling, and then they'd kind of disappear into the bit. About two minutes later. I don't think she kept one of them. Maybe a kind of an earring pot survived, but everything else.

But having a creative life is just a kind of part of your family sort. I mean, yeah, but in a, like my dad, they're creative, but not all in a crafty creative way. But they're creative thinkers, you know. Yes. That's a way of being creative as well. Also with photography, I've all, because my son's doing GCSE photography at the moment. And the thing about it that I'm like, oh, it's not like painting in the, there's a machine. And I don't know how to work machines.

Well, it's, I feel always that it merges the kind of scientific part of my brain and the practical part of my brain. And a technical part. Yeah, the technical part. with the kind of freer, more floaty creative part, the ideas part. And I think that's why I quite like it. I'm terrible at drawing and painting. I didn't even do GCSE art or anything. Terrible.

Like I found an old kind of colouring book that I had. It was just terrible. You couldn't even colour in, mate. What was that going really over the edge of? I mean, colouring in. Keep it in the lines. That's annoying. What?

You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bel Air Direct

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Yeah, it must have been. I reckon, was I about 10? It looks like an ad for like jumpsuits or dungarees or something. We always used to wear it, Oshkosh. Yeah, it's got an Oshkosh-Gosh-Fi. You and your sister? Yeah, so that's me and my sister Rowan. I reckon I was about 10.

I can't really always tell. Is she younger? She's a couple of years younger. I mean, that is a lovely towling vibe, track suit. I know. I always think those are really comfortable. I'd quite like one of those now. Oh, my God.

I mean, there's a lot of things I wore as a kid that I would happily wear now. I did buy a top from whistles recently. It looked a bit like that. But then I thought, it felt like I was wearing a kind of boys' pyjama top, you know? There's that risk of it going a bit too valory. I say, you can't go too. No, really? You do.

I think Valor is such a risk, man. A fire risk. Or a fire risk. Or a fire risk. It's so both. And also. It's so pleasing. You can just stroke your arms.

Yeah. And also static electricity. Lesser law is a lot, you know? You're going to get Chris Packet stuck to you before you know what you're doing. And where are you here? So this was a quite classic. Yeah, you've got the pointers on the sign. So it was a roundabout outside of Brighton, I think on the way to Lewis, but I can't remember exactly.

But the kind of problem was that my dad inherited this car from my grandpa. And my grandpa who had insisted that. my dad have it as this wonderful kind of generous gift for the family. But it was an old Volvo that just always broke down. My dad didn't want it, but he got kind of forced into accepting it. Sentimental value. Yeah. It's a gift.

And it was just the shittest car ever. And it broke down. And this was, I remember, we'd broken down on the roundabout. That's very near home as well. Yeah, it's really. And I remember quite often with my dad, like hitching home to Brighton with him when the car had broken down because he couldn't get, he couldn't afford the AA membership or something. Couldn't he just ditch the car?

I don't know. He felt this obligation. How long did this go on for? Oh, years. And we went, we broke down in France. He broke down in Spain. We broke down on the 823. So there's just pictures of you and your sister all over.

So this was obviously a photo opportunity that Dad. There's something about Volvo. She had a Volvo who broke down on the way to Cornwall. We were just stuck on the hard shoulder for like, I think it was like 12 hours. It's very bonding, isn't it, with a family to be on a hard shoulder. Not from a mom, four kids. No, not there. Absolutely hell.

I had a shitty old car. I think it's part of our generations, like, I don't know, Do young people know about breaking down? Like do cars break down? I don't know. But it was something like the choke went or something. Yeah, the clutch or the carburettor. These are words that I don't really understand.

I always remember the seats in the Volvo. They were those plasticy seats that got to, in the south of France. They got to about 130 degrees. They got so hot and you would literally be wearing shorts. And then your skin would literally stick. You'd have to peel off the seats. Yeah. Terrible.

So it was a big part of our childhood breaking down. I'm not sure where the football came from, but maybe he gave it that as that as a prop because he thought it looked cute or something. So you'd go on these amazing holidays with your... I wouldn't say they're amazing. That makes it sound better than it was. It was often just a very basic campsite in the south of France.

They were really fun. Yeah, yeah, which was an epic journey. In a precarious car. Listening to the Eagles. That's a very vivid. I can see that's very cinematic. It's got a cinematic. But also, can you remember being in a car with your parents doing drives like that and just being so bored?

Just went on forever. There was nothing to do. So you'd play the alphabet games. What are the albums? What are the standout albums? Sharday. Oh, smooth operator. Gracelands.

That's a solid. What for the journey? Brothers in arms. Dyer Straits. These are the solid albums that were played on those very long car journeys that I associate with that time. Because we used to drive to the South France as well. We didn't have a tape recorder thing and I was. I actually only had a radio.

Oh my God. Yeah, so we were just on AM FM, usually just AM static. What? Horrendous. Are you going back in time? We never had a new car. All of our cars were like 26 years old in the 80s. So they were always a pile of rubbish.

Antiques. And four of us in the back of a car. Driving to Spain? We're driving to France or wherever we're driving. Just like, oh my God. It was so bored. My mom was brilliant at these. journeys. So she would buy a bag of little toys, like little knick-knacks, stickers, maybe a little

pad, a little bit of stationary or whatever. And if we behaved, me and my brother, like as in don't kill each other, you can have a little toy every sort of three or four hours. So you incentivise to not punch the shit out of each other. It was genius. But you have the added jeopardy of a car that was shit. The shit car always broke down. It just became a big car. So you spent a lot of your childhood on the hard shoulder. Yeah, stranded in like, like weird places. Offered a little chef. And did you bother you?

Were you like? Yeah, I don't really know. I mean, my parents were together until I was about 10, so she would have been there for the Volvo days. The Volvo days? I really want a film of the Volvo day. It's like the Wonder Years.

I actually think the Volvo days would be like the best film. I would be there for that. And you and your sister got on? Oh, God, no. Oh, really? We only started getting on about 10 years ago. Oh, no. You're kidding.

I despised her. I love her now. really not for now. You'd go in as hard as despise, is a word that you're going to stick with. I remember thinking that it was really, I feel quite bad about it now. And she adored you? No, I think she hated me as well. She's got loads of diaries saying had another massive fight with Alice.

What did you used to argue about? I love hearing about sibling problems. You're very reassuring. Sisters, I think, is different. I thought sisters were like. Sisters? But I thought they were like close. All the women I know that have got sisters, I always feel like I will never compete because you've got a sister.

And it's another level. you've got something else. Now I feel that special, special relationship, I suppose. But I just thought she was unbelievably annoying the whole time. When did she seem to be annoying? About 10 years ago. What happened? What happened?

Mid-30s. I think I went through a bad breakup and she was amazing. And I think that's when I saw her kind of kindness and generosity. And I actually thought, you're a really good person and you're really lovely. and yeah, we have got a really special relationship. But my mom kind of gave up with us. She was just like, I can't stand it. Oh, really?

Because it was really sad for her. Because she wanted two little girls that got on. I remember when we were little, I pinned her down on the floor once and rubbed all newspaper print on her face. So she hung up the kind of the guardian or whatever's like headline. I mean, I was awful to her. I think that's really creative, Alice.

I used to call her Buddha because she was ginger and fat. Oh, I mean, I was really horrible. I know. I feel really bad now. Have you had therapy to do? together sort it out. What's this next photo? This is mesmerizing.

The three girls. Yeah. Well, that's my sister as well. I mean. Oh, is it? Yeah. Yeah, that was when she wasn't so cute looking. Oh, wait.

That's both of us again. You look very different. You do look different. Yeah. So this was a makeup. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. This is so awful.

It was really. weird. I remember, I must have written in. This was Girl magazine, don't you remember Girl Magazine? It was quite cool when you were 12. Was it as cool as Just 17? No. My mum banned me from getting Just 17 because of the problem page. Because it was too explicit. Too sexy. Yeah. So I think I might have got it and hid it a few times. But she did not enjoy me having that. Was there a magazine that had 15 in it? Did I make that out? I think you might have made that art. It was just 17 and then? Just 17. 19. Oh, there was 19. 19, that's it.

And this was 14 more younger teens. Yes. Right. I think it was for like, yeah, kind of 10 to 14 or something. Well, I don't know why. I must have been bored. I wrote in asking to have a makeover. Yeah.

Right. This is what we did without time. Yeah, it must have written a handwritten a letter, I guess. Yeah, why not? And then I remember the phone rang and I was with Rowan, my sister. And I was weird at that age because I was confident in some ways and then quite shy. And I went, oh, Rowan, you answer it. I don't want to answer the phone.

I don't know who it is. And she answered the phone and it was like the editor or whatever from Girl magazine going, oh, well, and we'd like Alice to come up to London from makeover. And who's this? And she said, oh, I'm Alice's sister. And she's like, oh, well, we need another person. Do you want to have a makeover as well? So then it was really weird because it ended up with my mum taking us on the Thames link or whatever to a photography studio in Farringdon.

This must have been thrilling. Yeah, it was exciting because it was like a really cool, proper photography. I don't know, remember the photographer, but loads of lights and colour armour and backgrounds and makeup artists and stuff. And we were like, oh, this is like the magazine world. This is so cool. But my mom was horrified and she said after the makeover, she felt like she was with two young like hookers taking us on the train back to Brighton. Because they'd like, when we don't look plastered there when you think of how much makeup people wear now.

No, I was going to say, by modern standards, that's very modest. Yeah, it was very modest. But then I just look at what I wrote. I can't really see here. But I think it says I had to have favourite groups, wet, wet, wet. Oh my God. I did really fancy Marty Pello. Fave lessons games in history.

Yeah. And it was like, Alice loved her. Alice loved her new look. I love that Rowan's his wet, wet, wet, and Aztec camera. I remember Aztec camera. Yeah. Yeah. I would argue that Rowan looked better before.

I'm going to argue that you both looked better before. I think you've got a weird kind of smug expression. I don't really think that was just picture. That doesn't feel like you. And then I just looking a bit embarrassed, I think, in the makeover. It doesn't look like they've gone in too horny. I think your mum's being a bit strong. Well, I think when she was in the flesh, I think she was probably,

quite horrified because we had like foundation on. Well, you probably hadn't worn makeup before. No, we'd never really worn. I'd bought like one Ramele lipstick or something until that point, I think. They've really gone for a feather cut with Rowan, don't they? They've gone in quite feathery there. And I found this recently and it was just hilarious. There was three of us, so there was another girl called Zoe with curly hair.

But I just remember mum just thinking it was horrendous and being really embarrassed. Yeah. Because it could have, I mean, it does sound for you, a really exciting. And I remember I was wearing boy cycling shorts. on that day. Do you remember the make boy? With regret or with confidence? I think I thought I was cool. Yeah, I'm sure. Like, actually I probably didn't really enjoy the makeover. I think I remember a time when everyone was wearing cycling shorts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like the I TV version of Blue Peter. So it's a bit crafting. Absolutely. Never heard of that. What are you doing on that? I pretend. I was on that. I pretend.

They came around my school. So these things must have just gone on. Yeah, yeah. So they came around my school saying they wanted kids that played skittles. Well, no one played skittles. This is not in 1935. We had to sort of pretend that we were these crafting kids that made skittles. And we were taken up to ITV studios to do this whole day of playing skittles.

And when there were some other kids there that had made t-shirts and done crafting and torn and stitched up, put safety. And it was the, I'd honestly say it was possibly the best day of my life. Wow. I mean, obviously, you know, there's been other good days since. But when you're that age and you go into that kind of environment. Truly exciting. So thrilling.

Something so different. Cameras and makeup and teleland or media land or whatever. It was just, I just remember being absolutely thrilled, which it must have been to do that. We were all over it. We thought it was amazingly exciting. And when it came out was everyone like, oh. I think I was a bit pissed off because my sister made the front cover. Although she was quite small.

She was quite small. She was like a thumbnail of the top. Alice, I wonder. This is the seed. Maybe this is the start of one of the fathes in the... And you didn't get on even that day? I don't really. No.

Probably not. I think mum was managing us. And your mum wasn't enjoying it. I don't think she enjoyed it. No. I think she just thought, what have I done? Like, what have my kids done? What am I doing as a mother?

Yeah. But I think it's different now, like, because of social media and because our children are exposed to a lot more that I think we have a different attitude to it. Maybe we would have felt the same. Do you know what I mean? Back then, it was so unusual to see really young girls with shed loads of makeup on. It's funny, isn't it, that kind of 80s feminist mum, my mum might have been similarly.

And it's like we have such a different relationship now with confidence and self presentation. And I think my mum might have been a bit like, oh no, it's objectifying or it's sexualising. Yeah, I think that's what she was concerned. But I think there's a different kind of discourse around some of that now. I agree. It's interesting. Just getting the true period, though. were two women with their rollers in.

Loads of makeup. And I think in suitcases, I think they come from Manchester or Liverpool. But I thought, oh, I thought that was quite cool. But you knew they weren't Londoners straight away. Yeah, yeah. Because of the rollers and the dress. I'm going to put quite a hefty sum down that they're from Liverpool.

I love a before and after. You don't see as many before and afters. No, you don't actually. It was a real solid thing a before and after. Oh, it's a solid thing. But I think now it's like, just love yourself. Don't worry about the. Before and after what?

And then what's beyond? I mean, the narrative arc is more complex than before. Other factors that are supposed to be more transformative than slapping on like 10 tons of makeup. Well, it's that kind of Greece vibe, isn't it? Like, Sandy. Yeah, yeah. What happened to you? You're like, what about it?

It's stirred. And then she's totally. She's changed herself. What the fuck have to be a Newton John. She's bent herself out of shape just to make this guy. Do you remember the photographers just to get back to your obvious? I don't. I just remember the set.

Like, it all being extremely exciting. But not that like, oh, these guys are doing so. I'd love to do that. No, I just, I thought this is a world I may be, I'm kind of interested in. But I wasn't like, oh, I definitely want to be a photographer. Yeah, yeah. It was before. And also, I've never done since that kind of photography, really.

So. Well, you talk about glamour shots. Yeah, Kerry was an exception. I'll call them glamour shots, babe. A lot of, sort of. It's like the page three days. I had my top on. That's like Melinda Messenger.

What a relief. Yeah, I did a glamour session with that is early on. Yeah, yeah. That was in the early days. That was in the early days. It was going to have a backup, isn't it? Well, and down. Get it.

And lock it out. Okay. What's the next one? Oh, God. The one thing, before we go any further, is just the little badge in the corner just really sets. I know exactly what decade it is. Yeah.

I know exactly what the look is. Acid jazz, which I thought was so cool. It was so cool. What was it? Run new heavy, sand, Asiagalliano, who else was? Young disciples. New Urikan soul. What are you talking about?

Assy jazz. Music genre. A label. A label. A label. Like death jam. Yeah. Right.

But like Jemiriqui? Jemiriqui. Oh, Jemariqui. Jemariqui or Jemiriqui. Jemariqui. Jemariqui. Not Jemiriqui. Jemori.

He used to hang out in Ealing, that bloat. What's he called? Jumuriquai. With a massive hat. With a massive hat. Jason's something. J.K. J.K.

Yeah, but Jason is his name. He used to hang out in Haven Green and Ealing. Yes, I remember him being for mealing. Because I wanted to go to Ely. Oh, do you know what? There were all these girls that used to sit on Haven Green. Just to see. Just to look at Jason.

Mate of mine who went to college the same time as me at Richmond College, because Richmond's not that far from Ealing. Yeah. They were dating. Also, she's what, thought. That's a big scoop. That's a big 80 scoop. Yeah.

Or 90s? When was it? I think they liked. This would have been. But she really milked it. 90s. This is 90s, right? Well, I would have a bit, yeah.

Who are you with in this picture? So I'm with my school friend, Michelle, who I was at Van Diem with. And this was hilarious. This was a assignment for A-level media studies. I love the Bell Bottons. And I think this was my like promo. I kind of made up this band. This was me and Michelle.

Too damn funky, it was on a. And then. Too down funky. With the two as a two, obviously. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And then this was our album, which obviously didn't really exist. It's called Struct Your Stuff.

Released January the 20th. But it's funny because there was actually another playlist and it's got really embarrassing songs like Do the Diva. You just made these songs up. And also it's done terribly and really bad letterset. Everything's completely wonky. If you look around the edge, like this is all really badly cut out

and like posh to get. I thought that was a creative decision. No, I think the photo was a creative decision. But I think I just didn't have a good scalpel for the outside. You didn't have a propagating. No, I didn't have propagoleteen or anything. So we did this shoot in my dad's garden in Beacon's all. Villas. I can't actually remember who took the pictures. I like the torn effect. Yeah, yeah. That's good.

If I was giving this, if I was grading this, I'd get, I really like that torn effect. Good creativity for the tall effect. And I feel that you made a creative decision to not use a guillotine. Yeah, I think maybe it was part of the charm of it and it was to not be, you know, put in one bracket, one genre. I didn't want to be too perfect. So I think, you know, it's that kind of like. Also, I think that green was very much the acid jazz green. Was it? Yeah. I reckon. And also, I, I, I'm looking at thinking I can totally imagine that as a CD cover. Totally. I think it was,

was this even before CDs? This was our promo poster, I think, because it might have even predated CD. No, CDs were out then. Were they? Yes. I think I was just really into vinyl, you see, at this point, because I was really into acid jazz,

so I was a bit like, I was a DJ for a bit, DJ Al Fresco. What? DJ Al Fresco. Where was that? A couple of really bad clubs in Brighton. You were DJing? Oh, I say, yeah.

I mean, with Michelle for about half an hour kind of warm-up slots. But that's still very impressive. Wait, what? Did you have decks? No, we didn't actually have decks. We had a lot of vinyl, but we had friends who had decks. So you borrowed their decks. They were actually quite easy.

Oh, I don't think it was very good, but they were quite easy to use. So we would borrow decks, yeah. I've had a go. My friends are DJ and he's told me how to do it, and it's not easy. You didn't think it was easy? No, it's not like just going, oh, fade up, fade down. No, it's hard. You have to do it properly.

And I was like, oh, God, this one. Come, I've got to mix it in. Yeah. It's tense. It is a bit tense. But I mean, I think because we weren't exactly playing to big crowds. And you were just having fun. We were just having fun.

And you're with your mate. And also with my mate. Also, when you were a teenager, no one's going, oh, this mixing's terrible because they're all off the head on state. And dancing and having a guitar. And I was just so into music at that point. I used to go down jazz rooms. Do you still go and see much life music?

Not as much as I'd like to. But when I do go to gigs, I think, oh, yeah. This is. And it comes out. Yeah. Well, yatted jazzer comes out. I used to go around Brighton in like a Kangol hat and a bit more glamorous kind of in that picture. Kangol bucket hat.

Not a bucket hat, like a beanie. Kangol Beanie was my look. And obviously old school added us and all that kind of. Do you play music? Do you do? Is there any musicals? No, absolutely terrible. Oh, that's another story about my sister.

I remember we were going to London to this like cool shop. I can't remember. But was it Kensington Market. Yeah. Yeah, it was Kensington Market. Yeah, we're there. And she really wanted to come with me. This is, I'm just going to come across as so such an awful person.

Maybe you can edit some of it out. And she really wanted to come with me and I was like, oh, I don't really know. I think I might have been going with Michelle. I just don't think you're really dressed right to come with us. And I made, I said, you can only come if you put on my Adidasquezelles. But she's six foot and was like three shoe sizes bigger than me. So I basically made her walk around London in two small.

Alice! Like an entire day. Just so she could hang with you. Just so, so she could like prove her coolness to hang out with me. Yeah. And then she came back and had like, you know. Bunions. Bunions and bliss.

feet for like weeks afterwards. Let's have a look at your next picture. Oh yeah, this is slightly more... Oh, New York, New York. Yeah, so this was... I suppose this just represents a really formative time in my life because I didn't really know what I wanted to do after university.

I studied English. Although I did lots of photography for the student paper and that kind of thing. So you didn't do photography at college. No, I did photography afterwards at Central St. Martins. But I did English literature. Where did you go? Leeds.

But I did. dark room course there and I did a lot for the student paper. And the student paper was really cool actually because I feel like I'm saying cool a lot. Anyway. We are that generation. I say groovy. Oh, God. I mean, no one's just feeling it.

I would have thought that was. I'm bringing it back. I'm bringing it back. I say semi-ironically. You're literally channeling boomers. I say whoop-whoop these days as well. I just say whoop-woo. I sometimes write who-whoop in a text.

Yeah. But I wouldn't say it. Do you do it with a H or just straight with the O's? Oh, got put an H. Yeah, with an H. I sometimes go straight in the double emoji. Oh, we're really showing our age. I said, well, the other day, I was being a bit ironic.

And Elsie said, don't ever do that again. It made me cringe from the inside out. Harsh. But cool is fine. Yeah, right, okay. So, go on, you were cool. So I did a lot of work for the student paper, which was great, because you'd actually end up photographing brilliant, bands, writers.

I remember I was sent when I was 18 or whatever to photograph like Irvin Welsh when train spotting first came out. Because a lot of people, like writers, actors, kind of media people, celebrities if you like, were kind of pissed off with the national press and were much more suspicious of how they would come across and careful of their image. But actually they were really supportive of the student press.

So weirdly, a lot of student papers can get great access to people for interviews. Yeah, well-known people for interviews. Yeah. Is that still, do you think? I don't know. I think they are really active still. And they're actually really respective

and they've got their own kind of student unions and they're a real kind of breeding ground for journalists still. Right. So I was photographing gigs and people. But this was, yeah, so when I finished university, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I had always had this thing for New York, you know like you do when you're a lot of people do when you're a teenager.

And I ended up going there initially to do an internship at a film production company because I thought I might want to get into film and then ended up kind of roaming the streets. So that was awful. That didn't work out. at all because they were pretty awful people. But I loved being in the city and I would roam around the streets with my camera

taking black and white. It's all black and white film. And then I put together a portfolio. You've got such a great eye. Oh, thank you. I was very young here. But then I put together a portfolio for Time Out New York that were just launched.

Right. And just sent it to them in the post saying if you ever need a photographer, which is such a bold thing. I probably wouldn't do that. Isn't it funny? Like, I don't know. You've done it twice in this interview

because you as a kid got your makeup over. Yeah. So obviously I'm a bit more kind of. Yeah. I mean, this is how you don't ask. I mean, yeah, completely. I feel like a bit more. But how else would you get forward?

And you're young and starting your career? Because you always think someone's just going to approach you and go, I can see that you've got an eye. I've been watching you from a far. Here's a career. It doesn't work like that. You're right, it doesn't happen. So I wrote the timeout, sent the portfolio and said,

look, I've been taking pictures around New York. Have you got any work? And they said, we're just about to launch the timeout guide to New York. Do you want to be the photographer for it? What? Yeah, I know. I mean, this never happens. Why?

It did happen? Yeah. Okay, but it's an unusual story. It's never happened since. But it's clearly talent-based. And then I went around. They must have been like, yeah, all right. And also it wasn't, you know, brilliant money, but I didn't care. But you're going to be young.

For about a year. About a year, I was paid to do all their guides when I was about 23. That's such a great opportunity. How old were you? Maybe 23. 23. And you got to take the photographs for time out of New York. It was an amazing experience.

So some of those pictures I was sent to, yeah, gay clubs in the meatpacking district. That's Grand Central Station. So what are you all talking now? I'm talking now. I'm trying to think. 75, 85, 95, late 90s. A good time.

Yeah. I mean, New York was very different then. In what way? Well, like, I mean, I don't know. It's more clubby. Like the meatpacking district, for instance, was kind of properly.

Rough. Kind of rough. It's not really hard. Now it's Gucci and Louis Vuitton. This is pre-sex in the city kind of. It's probably similar time. Yeah. Yeah.

Because I remember Samantha being in the meatpacking district in sex in the city and she's always like bumping into drag queens and stuff. Yeah, but when she was wandering around, it did look a little bit. Oh, no, it was definitely, ropy, isn't it? Yeah, but they were also brilliant kind of clubs and bars there. Is that Coney Island? Yeah. Wow.

These are our fabulous photos. And who are you hanging out with in New York? Because New York can be, it's an exciting city, but it can be a lonely. Oh, I would say I was really lonely for the first few months, and I didn't really know where to live. And I had, I was staying in like a kind of dorm, you know, like a dorm, kind of hostely place. Yeah. Just because it was cheap. And then I met a few people through the film company.

That was something that came of that. And then I got a couple of introductions. But there was no Facebook. There was no like, oh, I'm going to New York. You know, on social media now, it's actually much easier to connect with people in different cities. So I spent a long time kind of with my camera, wandering and observing and I've always been really curious,

but being on my own a lot. And then I did slowly meet people. Like my dad had an academic friend who introduced me to his girlfriend. We've stayed really close friends. So then I had a little group, a little community there. who I became, yeah, close friends with. Actually, most of them were studying film at NYU. I suddenly kind of ended up hanging up with them.

So you fell in with quite a cool crowd. They were lovely, yeah. They were bright and adventurous. But I was, I don't know if I was just really naive, but it felt so New York. I remember going for brunch, because obviously everyone goes for brunch. Yeah.

Going for brunch with my friend Natalie and her friends who were all studying film at NYU. And one of her friends, who seemed relatively kind of straight laced on the surface. I thought, I didn't say she was square, But, you know, she wasn't one of the kind of wild New Yorkers. I remember her saying, oh, I can't stay out late because I've got to get up early in the morning. And I remember saying, oh, what have you got to do?

Where are you working? Thinking she'd say, I'm going to work at Borders. You know, borders was big at that time. Yeah. And she said, oh, I'm working in a dungeon. And I was like, what? What's a sex dungeon? Yeah.

I was doing white part time job. Just wiping surfaces. Well, no, being like a dominatrix. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Wow. Yeah. Oh, wow.

And I was suddenly like that bloom. Yeah, yeah, you're like, okay. I'm a part-time job in Morterson's. Yeah. I was in a Patel's corner shop in Brighton. Yeah. And I just thought, wow, this city. And I just thought from that, you know, you can never obviously judge people by the way they look or whether they're at. And she also was really, she really owned it.

She was just, but also she just said it really casually. Yeah. That's what people go to New York for. They want all that. Yeah. They want to feel like they're in a Lou Reed song. So that's what it kind of dealt up, those moments that I really remember. This episode is brought to you by Peloton.

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It's the matchat or the three ensemble Ciceroa of the FACTA that I just denichie, who energize all the time? It's the ensemble. The format standard and mini regrouped, what are good?

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a girl's girl with a law degree. All's Fair is the fierce new legal drama about a team of iconic women in France, created by Ryan Murphy and starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, Nisi Nash Betts,

Tiana Taylor, Matthew Naskah with Sarah Paulson and Glenn Close. All's Fair premieres on Hulu on Disney Plus, November 4th. Did you ever have any kind of thought about, oh, I'd love to do a film, you know, I'd love to get into...

Well, I've been put off of the film industry because I did this internship at a film production company that produced really great, like indie films. But they were so unwelcoming and unhospitable, and it was such a closed book that it just put me off the industry altogether. So at that point, my focus was definitely... Photography. Yeah. And how did you then decide that you... Because you've made a film. So how did you get to that point where you're like,

no, I want to make a film so this is what I'm going to do. Well, the film entirely stemmed from a photograph so it came out of a photograph. Have we got that photo? Is that in the... Can we add that as well? Can we have that photo?

The original photo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I took a photograph. I was working on a big project called Exvoto about pilgrimage sites and I was in Ireland and Lourde in France which is very well-known Catholic pilgrimage site and then I went to a place called Grabbarka in Poland,

this incredible pilgrimage site on top of a hill. It looks quite occult like with thousands of wooden crosses, very evocative, very atmospheric. And I was looking for interesting pilgrims to photograph, which is kind of, it's easy to say that, but a lot of pilgrims turn up with their sticks and waterproof trousers. You know, they're not, and a flask of coffee. They're not like these amazing otherworldly figures who kind of appear.

But I saw this woman, this turns out an orthodox nun, dressed head to toe in these black robes. And she was completely mesmerising. And I approached her and said, could I take a picture of you? And I worked with a very old-fashioned large format camera where you put a cloak over your head and you have to use a loop

and it's all a large format film. Yeah. So it's quite a different way of taking a photo. And it makes them have to respond in a different way. It almost becomes a collaboration because it's not a quick snap. Like they have to stay very still. They have to engage.

They have to keep focused on the lens. So in a way, it's quite a performance doing it this way. But I took this image of her, and she turns out she was called Vera, and it became the most important image in the series. And she told me about her life. And I was with my assistant at the time, who's also a filmmaker. And she invited us to her convent in Belarus.

And then I got small grant from Sony, and we went there for a week with a view of making a short film about her, but not knowing anything about her life. Yeah. And not knowing anything about Belarus, really. Yeah. Or about life in a convent. or, you know, monastic life, anything.

So it turned up quite naive, really. But then six years down the line, we've got a finished documentary feature film because her life is extraordinary. About her specific life? And her past. Yeah, she narrates it. But she's had this incredible past.

She was a heroin addict for many years before she joined the convent. She was married. She was divorced. She's got a very kind of troubled past in many ways. But she's also an extremely kind of present character. and she's very charismatic and very enigmatic. So she commands the screen when she's on the screen.

But I remember when I took the picture of her, I used this loop, which is like a magnifying glass, and I put it on the ground glass, and I had the cloak over my head, and she was looking into the camera. And I felt like, my goodness, it's like she's looking into my soul. And I've never had that.

Didn't have that with you, Kerry. Oh. I was really trying to look into your soul. Which sounds really dramatic. And I've never had that before. I've never had that since. I think it comes over. in that shop.

Right. Yeah, it is extraordinary. It's quite a sort of like... She's kind of emerging from the forest with her black robes. Yeah, I'd love to see it. Yeah, of course I can send it. It's amazing.

I mean, in the world of smartphones and digital cameras and my, and everyone's taking pictures and so you've gone away from that kind of... Yeah, the opposite. And like you just said, the kind of technical process is slower and more considered.

And there's a really... There's a ritual to working that way because you have to follow certain steps with that camera or you'll mess up the film. So you have to do a light meter reading. You have to put the cloak over your head. You have to put the film it. There's a whole process there.

And it feels like a ritual. And I enjoy that aspect of it because you have to really concentrate. You have to think very carefully, very precisely. So it's the opposite of grabbing an iPhone and doing a snap. Which also I think does have value in lots of ways. Yeah, but you're thinking of it as an artist. It's like a kind of something other than just grabbing a moment. Yeah.

And people I make pictures of respond differently. Yeah. It elevates them. And when there's someone like that, they're bringing a lot. Oh, God, she brought so much. And how, so the journey from taking a photograph of a woman to making a feature documentary, how, what you're describing, how did that evolve? So we went for one initial trip, so me and the co-director who's called Cecil Emberton.

And after a week with Mother Vera, which is the name of the film, the resulting film, we realised she had got such rich past and so many stories to tell that a show. short film of kind of eight minutes wouldn't really do her life justice. So it ended up being six, well, six years in total, but four years of trips to Belarus over the different seasons. And she also has this extraordinary, her role in the convent. So I learned so much about Orthodox monastic life, obviously. Does it appeal? Yes, in some ways. I mean, you have to be there for the liturgies. There's this almost Gregorian type chanting. There's, you know, huge kind of clouds of incense everywhere.

There's people kind of, it's very mesmerizing. Yeah. And very, very beautiful. Yeah, I bet. And also you can leave a lot of the world. Well, there is a kind of transcendent nature to being in those spaces. Yeah, it feels like you're leaving everything else behind and you're very present and in that moment. So, and also I can see the appeal in a sense of having a ready-made community, routine, discipline, a structure.

and this as well appealed to Vera because she came from a life where she didn't have any of that. So it provided her with this. And what did she think, what did she want to get out of? Well, we don't, I mean, when we first met, I think she was just curious and she felt flattered and she, but she wondered why we were interested in her and that took a lot of time to build up the trust there for her to really open up to us. And she kind of appreciated, she was actually before she joined the convent

and before she was an addict, she's super smart, she'd study English, she'd studied literature, she'd study film as well. So she very much kind of appreciates the creative process. So she was quite an active collaborator, although it's a documentary. She was quite instinctive about knowing in a sense what we wanted to film. And did you know what you wanted? Well, not in the beginning, but then we kind of built up scenes and built up the story started developing. And what is that?

What is the overall arc? Yeah. Well, there's a bit of a kind of plot twist. All right, don't give it away, but I do love a plot twist in a documentary. But it is also film, I mean, it's filmed in a very still and beautiful way. So a lot of the film actually looks like still photographs. There's a lot of shots that are held for quite a long time. So you can see very clearly that it came from the photograph and that series XVoto.

But it's a woman's struggle, really, to find meaning in life. So although it's set largely in the monastery with her surrounded by the monastic sisters, it's not really a film about religion at all or a film about faith. No. But it's a film about belief and about guilt and about redemption and transformation.

Sounds absolutely brilliant. But we turned up to Belarus to this monastery not knowing what to expect and we were really naive because we turned up in kind of jeans and trainers and they were like, well you can't go around the monastery dressed like that. We were like what?

Obviously like Orthodox monastery you have to wear a headscarf hence this is a long skirt. But it was funny because I ended up remember when you were at school and there's like the old PE kit. And they're like, oh, just grab some navy knickers or whatever from that. Or if you wet yourself, they stick you in a kilt. So it was a bit like that.

They said, oh, we've got this, we've got a box. We've got this old box at the monastery. You're like, who lost is warmness? And grab what you can. So you're in appropriate attire to be wandering around the monastery. You look very moved and awed. Well, I think that was a little bit posed. But yeah, I was in awe of it all for certainly.

There was a sense of wonder there and awe that. I probably hadn't really experienced before. I think those spaces are meant to make you feel like that. It's meant to make you feel small and intimidated by the church. I was like that when the Patriarch used to come in and everyone was like, oh my God, shuffling around, right, patriarchs here. It's like, pre-se. Yeah.

Oh, really? Yeah, that was a big deal. The Patriarch. Let's not like, just say what you see. It's not trying to be a PC, isn't it? Thank you, Alice. Alice, your photographs have been so lovely. And what is the film called?

Did we even talk about what the film's called? Yes, the film is called Mother Vera. So the main protagonist, the nun, is called Vera. Thank you, Alice. Oh, good. Yeah, thanks for coming, Alice. It's been great. Good stories, good pictures.

And finally, we have got a proper photographer on our photography podcast. It's taken us over a year. So are you watching Severance? I haven't started the new series yet because I have to... I'm watching it to bond with my children, but actually it's causing a lot of arguments because they love it and they're livid that I'm not loving it. But what do they love about it? I didn't love it.

Well, I didn't love it because I didn't know what the fuck was going on and I lost interest. But what do they love about it? Is it because it's a bit sci-fi? Yeah. They just love that it's like they just think it's really cool and they don't care that they don't know what's going on. Or they think they do know what's going on. And I'm like, well, what's going on then? Yeah.

And it looks cool and it's brilliantly acted and shot and all the around. rest of it. So it's like extremely yeah, the production values amazing. But it reminds me of Twin Peaks. Do you remember Twin Peaks just went on and on and on and you're like oh hang on? Yeah. This is like a Ponzi scheme. There's no. Nobody knows. Nobody knows what's going on and I feel like sometimes with these shows

is that they don't know what's going on but they're trying to figure it out as they write it and it's like guys you need to know what's going on before you write it. Otherwise it becomes very obvious to me that you don't know what the fuck is going on. If you don't know what's going on, how the fuck am I supposed to know what's going on? But anyway, it's quite interesting enduring a thing that I would long have dumped

just to get, just out of love for your... Just to be with my children. Children, yeah, children. I'm Max Rushden. I'm David O'Darney. And we'd like to invite you to listen to our new podcast, what did you do yesterday? It's a show that asks guests the big question,

Quite literally, what did you do yesterday? That's it. That is it. Max, I'm still not sure. Where do we put the stress? Is it what did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? You know what I mean?

What did you do yesterday? I'm really down playing it. Like, what did you do yesterday? Like, I'm just a guy just asking a question. But do you think I should go bigger? What did you do yesterday? Every single word this time I'm going to try and make it like it is the killer word.

What did you do yesterday? I think that's too much, isn't it? That is over the top. What did you do yesterday? Available wherever you get your podcasts every Sunday.