S04 E32: Manjinder Virk
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00:25We'd love to talk, business.Hello and welcome to Memory Lane. I'm Jen Bristair and I'm Kerry Godleman.Each week we'll be taking a trip down Memory Lane with our very special guest as they bring in four photos from their lives to talk about.To check out the photos we'd be having a natter with them about, they're on the episode image and you can also see them a little bit more clearly on our Instagram page.So have a little look at Memory Lane podcast. Come on, we can all be nosy together.I mean, are you watching South Park at the moment?No, when's it on?It just comes on when it comes on.
01:07Oh, no.I'm not watching television just when I hope the South Park comes on.Anyway, the facelift people, just the slide in the middle.Just a face falling off.And then all this team of like, putting faces back.Oh, I was, who was I talking to the other day?And I was like, why is your face not moving?And then I remember, Botox.
01:28Mm-hmm.It was like this.Yeah, well, I couldn't believe it.I was like, do you want to tell your face?Show your fucking face that.I couldn't believe it.I'm outraged.I couldn't believe it.
01:38I'm absolutely outraged.I said to them, are you out of your mind?And they said, no, I couldn't believe it.Oh my fucking.So many feelings.But you wouldn't know.None of them can be expressed.I find I do double, I do double emoting.
01:56I really felt myself double emoting.What do you mean? Like a double take?No, almost like the less her face moved, the more I kind of went.Oh, you were overcompensating?In a way where I run, I'll moat for you.Wow. Wow.I know. I don't know if that's a good...Like you're doing a double shift in emotion.
02:16I'm doing her voting, yeah, yeah.Because I thought, I know that you're trying to tell me something with your face and it's not happening.So I will express that for you.So when she was like, I couldn't believe it, but her face was going, I couldn't believe it.I went, oh, you couldn't believe it.That was brilliant.I was mirroring.That's like, have you come across.
02:30across old people, two problems with old people.One, quite a lot of them are womentalk with their eyes closed.So oftentimes they will just talkin their eyes closed and I'm like,and they're like, anyway.So they're just talking with their eyes closed.And then there's the other kind
02:50that finish your sentences for you.And I think the former is mostly womenand the latter is mostly men.Men, yeah.So men, and they're, oh, the one, eight, four bus, right.And then you...I'm finished, Barry!You don't know, I never got on the bus, Barry!
03:05Don't speak for me, Barry!So those two things.So what you were doing was a facial equivalentof the sentence finishing.You were doing that with your face.Oh my God, I hadn't thought about it.Didn't that was quite passive aggressive?No, I'm just saying you thought,
03:21like those old men that think they're doing your favourby helping you finish your sentence.I wasn't helping.You were, oh, I'll do your faces for youbecause you can't move your facebecause you've had so much fucking work done.But also, she couldn't emote the factthat she thought it was weird
03:34that I was doing her emotions for her.So I didn't, even if she thought,how do you know, there was no indication,there was no means of you knowing.No way of me knowing.So people are going to have to hold sandwich boards up now with feelings.Right now, I'm annoyed.Yeah.
03:46Like all the emotions, people have outsourced their faceto their emoji menu.Yeah, but that's no good when I'm in a conversation with you.Unless you've got like an emoji card.to put over your face.Frazzled.Top hat.Clown face.
04:02My favourite at the moment is spiralised.That's the one I'm going with mostly this week.What spiral eyes?Oh, spiral eyes.Oh yeah, that's a good one.I've never used that one.I've only just started.What context?
04:13Oh, lots going on, bit frazzled.Yeah.I was a bit late the other day.Sparalised.Sorry, did I not answer your email?So if you stop using the other one, which is like,that. Oh, I like that one. I go back to that one. I go, I use that one. I don't know where the handcame from. The hand isn't there. Oh, the hand one's great. The little hands. What I want to know?
04:36Is that one that's skidding along the floor? What's that one about? A melt. You're a melt.Oh, you're having a melt. You're a melt. What does it mean? Now, what does it mean?I know. I assume that. Because it's used in lots of context, isn't it? Like, if you're a melt,does that mean you're a snowflake? You're, I've no one's ever said that to me. I don't knowit's a parlance word. Oh, is that, you got that from your children. You don't know that word.I've heard it in the vernacular of the young.I'm on social media.I'm on social media.
05:01The only people following you are over 45.No one's ever said melt to you on social media.I've heard it on podcasts.Fine.I occasionally am a tourist in the land of the young.Okay.And I hear phrases.Yeah.
05:13And I've got teenage children.Yeah.And I hear phrases like, oh, you melt.And I assume by the context.It doesn't sound positive.No, I think it's playfully derisive.Okay.So when
05:26So but I can't even remember the contextBut somebody sent me that emojiAnd I went I don't know what that meansWhat are you trying to say with that emoji?Ask AIAsk AII mean now you don'tWell you're not meant to are you
05:38But if you doIf you're everIf you've got a problem ask AIYou can't ask AINoNo because of the environmentDo you knowSix fish will die
05:47If you ask Chatchee PC anythingSo if I sayOh what does that melting emoji symbolise?That's three trout dead, a couple of cod and maybe a halibut.And that's on you.I can't hold that.No, you can't hold that.I can't.
06:02That's why don't use it.People are chat cheap-teeing stuff.I'm like, you know the answer to that.Why you're asking chat cheap-t?Companionship.Oh no, God.Do you know what?Don't start that.
06:12Somebody said to me that they're in a relationship with the chat cheap-ch-e-tie.They are paying for it.She has a voice.She said, oh, I've been talking to her so much.I've now got her voice exactly.the way I like it.Whoa.So the chat GPT
06:28will respond in a waythat she thinksshe likes it.Right.And they chat.About feelings?Yeah.All sorts of things.
06:37I think that's the future.I mean, it's bleak.Sure.That's not my future.No, sure.You can have your futurebut I think globallythat's the way it's going.
06:47I don't want to speak to anyone,let alone chatch.No, I've cleaned that from our WhatsApp group.I've gleaned that.I've gleaned your minimalism.Thumbs up emoji.I used to get pissed off with my brother when I asked him a really in-depth question and you'd go, okay.Well, that's you now.
07:01That's me now.That's who you've become.It's time.I'm time poor.And also, you know what I mean.And that's, I feel like that's...Oh, it's inferred, is it?It's an inference with silence.
07:12Yeah, a lot of the time.I mean, I could project a lot onto silence.But often I'm inferring a compliment.You just don't know.How the fuck would I know?It's so hard to get a compliment out of you.Like, for example, when I arrived today and you said,I looked like MC Hammer.
07:25I didn't say that.What happened was, you said, I can't wear these boots.They hurt my feet.They hurt my feet.And I said, is it a hammer toe?And you went, is that like hammer time?Do do, do, do.And then I went, well, you've got the trousers for it.
07:41And what I meant by that was, you could have been wearing any trousers.And yet I'm wearing kind of baggy trousers.You're wearing barrel leg trousers.Barrel leg trousers.Not Haram Pants, which is what MC Hammer wore, famously.that Hamilton video.But if you had let me finish...I think you just went straight for the gag.
07:59I don't think there was any nuance.I don't think there was any worry about fallout.If you'd let me finish, I...After that, gag, okay?I was about to say, and by the way...I love your bowel lectures.No way.There was no way a gap.
08:12And when you walked in, didn't I say...There was not a compliment-shaped gap in that silence.I started with a compliment.I middled it with a gag.And I was about to end the gag with a compliment.But you didn't allow.it to happen.You jumped the gun.
08:26No, I didn't.I just facially, I just facially.You shut it down.I cried.I let all my emotions be received facially.Well, because I've still got all the faculties of my facial muscles.And verbally and verbally.Yeah.
08:44As was evidence.When that man came to the room and went.Oh yeah.When that man came and told us to be quiet.Yeah.Neither of us responded very well to that.We were both like, yeah, all right.Oh, fuck.
08:54Go fuck yourself.It's what's hard enough being told by a man to do anything but this.I thought of...Yeah, listen, mate.You don't know who you're talking to.I was like, you do not know who you're talking to.And you're...And luckily, Kerry Godderman's got her back to you right now
09:11because otherwise it would be a fucking dabble whammy.It's lucky those tables are in the way, mate.No.No, we did nothing.Anyway, what I wanted to ask you, which we...We've gone all around the circles and the houses.Houses, thank you, because I've forgotten what that was.What's going on with your foot?
09:32Oh, I reckon, I don't know.I got an x-ray and it's nothing bonal.Is that word?It's not a word.I think it could be arthritis.It flares up, it comes and goes.It's cheeky little fucker.Would that not show up in an x-ray?
09:48No, I don't think x-rays for arthritis.Doesn't it affect the bone somehow?I think along the road, but we're at early stage, I think.Anyway, I've self-diagnosed.You've self-diagnosed.Okay.Because my mum's got arthritis and I've heard a lot about arthritis and I think it could be arthritis.Is it genetic?
10:05I don't know.I don't think it is.No, but it's quite common.Okay, so you've got undiagnosed or self-diagnosed arthritis.I've got an excruciating pain in my foot that comes and goes.And these boots that I was wearing today, which I rarely wear, in fact, I think I'm going to get rid of them.Cause pain.in my foot.
10:23Kerry, have you thoughtabout the factthat you might have gout?Why would I have gout?Isn't that like damp?I had gout one yearat Edinburgh.Do you remember that year
10:31it rained relentlessly?Gout isn't somethingyou get caused by the damp.Jesus Christ.These are all medievalconditions.You've got gout.It's in your toe.
10:40What's gout?I've just decided.What is it?It's a conditionoften caused by...Are you medically trained?Yeah.Often caused by eating too much
10:48cheese or drinking too much port.I don't drink port.I do like cheeseBut I don't think I eat too muchNoIt can be over timeI tell you who else has gotcow
10:59Go onJohn RobbinsWhat properlyYeahDiagnosedYeahHe drinksNot anymore
11:06No he's packed it in nowBut that could be booze relatedMine isn'tI don't drink that muchAlthough I didI went out with Elsie in LiverpoolAnd got absolutely shitfaced in a jazz clubOh my god
11:16You can't get drunk with your daughterNo I felt bad about itDid you?Not too bad thoughNo, we had a really good time.That sounds great, where'd you go?We went to a jazz club in Liverpool.Jazz, baby.
11:28It's a really good fun.You love it.Yeah?Kerry, who are we talking to today?Today, we're talking to my wonderful friend, Manjinda Burke, and she, oh my God, is thereanything this woman can't do?I met her acting, she's an actor, but she's a filmmaker.A dramaturg?
11:44A dramaturg.Is that a playwright?Yes, I think it's a playwright.So she's a playwright as well.Playwright, yeah.Yeah, she makes short films, she makes plays, she makes art, she's got an exhibition.She's a contemporary dancer.She can dance.
11:58She came with so many stories, so many brilliant pictures.I mean, we talked and talked.We did talk and talked.This was a really, really great conversation and we had a lot of fun with Manginda.So this is Kerry and I talking to Manginda Burke.Where did you go out, Manginda?Coventry.Did you?
12:24She's Cov.You're Cov.There's a mural of Manginda in Coventry.She's like...Get out!Cool meadow station.I love that.That is so cool.
12:35I actually didn't put it up on this, but I...See, we might stick that in as wellbecause when I saw that on Instagram, I was like...She's got a mural of her face in Coventry.That is wild.Terry Hall is next to me, which is much more of a claim to fame.Who cares?You're next to Terry Hall and...
12:49I know.And Hazel O'Connor.Hazel O'Connor!But no one can recognise it because she looks a bit distorted.Are you the three, Coventry?You're the Rushmore Island.What is it?Rushmore.
13:01There's more.What's at Pauline Black?Is she from Coventry?Or Leicester?Oh, God.No, no, she's not.She's a Selector.Selecter.
13:09Yeah.Is she not Cove?She might be Cove as well.My brother would know.He's like a fun of...Is he a Cov-ed?Oh, complete.Cov-maniac.
13:16The exhibition.Oh my gosh.We'll talk about this exhibition.Maybe you should...Yeah, we'll get him on then.Yeah.Oh, he...I stopped talking.
13:43Oh, yeah. That's annoying.That's annoying.Conditions apply.We've got to talk about your photos.Oh, wow.There's too many to choose from here.Let's go to the first one.The chronology.
13:59Bronolology.Oh, no, no.Look at you.I don't.Right.Niels, I can't believe it.I'm not sure about the chubby baby one.He was like, what's to tell?
14:08I'm like, well, look at my poloneck.I mean, I'm going to just whizz through a lot of these.Is that cordoneloy?It's a corduroy.Oh, corduroy is a fabulous fabric.I'm rocking it today.It comes, it goes.It comes and goes.
14:20It's coming and it's going.And it was solid in the 70s.The 70s was big.Look, I did my research on you two.So I've got you some biscuits.Oh, wow.Look, he can.Shortbread.
14:31I know what kind of show.No, this is because I said I didn't like biscuits.You know, I've got you some pickles.Oh, my ginger.Yeah.I literally was like, last night I thought,I better do some research up on myself, some blueberry.Oh.
14:44Oh, look at that.Look at your face.And the biscuits came out.I don't like biscuits.I know.Pickles!Well, you can't, but you will be masticating on a podcast.I'll put them here.
15:00She's been waiting to say masticate.It's good job I didn't get that word malapropped, isn't it?Finally.Is this your mum and you and your brother?Around the same time.So, no, my sister.So it's me on the sofa with the big hair and the red jumper.Yep.
15:15I love that wallpaper.My sister, that is, we've recreated that, you see, for the ex-Exhibition, which is just crazy.We should, yes, that's, because I don't know.It's interesting because the theme of our podcast is obviously all what your exhibition is about.Oh my gosh.It's all about nostalgia and recreating photographs.Yeah.
15:32Oh my God.Which opens next week.Slightly terrifying.Exciting, though.Kind of terrifying.So are these the kind of pictures that you've been trawling through with your brother and recreating?Yes.And then I found, went into storage last week, and I found so much more.
15:49I found a suitcase full of photo albums from Russia,from, like all these holidays.Holidays in Russia?I went to Russia with the youth theatre.What?Yeah.Whoa.What was that what?
16:03The Soviet Union?Before it was Russia.It was no, it was 89.Yeah, so before the war went down.It was still the Soviet.Yeah.It was kind of on the brink of, oh my God, was it 88, 89?it was falling apart.
16:20So when we went...It was already crumbling.And then the kids from famefrom Coventry rock up.We all turned upand we did a play about safer sex.We gave out condoms.Oh, there was a lot of that in the 90s.
16:32My youth get in a safe sex film.Because their condoms apparently don't work.So we went outand with like loads of condomsbut which film were with waterand just chuck them down to people.Oh, I really want these times back.I love those times.
16:46I went sound such an...Oh my, I've just found so many more pictureswhich was just really confusing.Okay, you've got to focus, Manginda, you've got to focus.You have to pick.I have to pick.Pick one now.I'll pick this one.
16:58Right.So who's in this picture?You and your sister and your mum.Where is it, Coventry?So that's Cov.Tell us about your mum.Oh, look at your mum's face.Oh, my beautiful mum.
17:10So sadly, my mum has passed away now.So anytime I see...A picture of it.Yeah.Yeah, it's kind of like, it's lovely, but it's, you kind of just carry this sense of loss as well.Yeah.You know, a celebration of life.Yeah, it's huge.
17:27This, I think I was about two, my sister's one year younger than me.And she had basically come from India.She emigrated when she was 19 years old.On her own?On her own to marry my dad.And she'd never left India before.and she never been on a plane beforeso she travelled by herself
17:50turned up in Coventryand I actually did my first ever short film that I mademade a dock but I recorded her journeyand she speaks about itand she says well I got on this planeand I thought if I don't like itI'm just going to go back the next dayand then she didn't go back for eight years
18:05and there'll be three kidsyeah so I think it wasso she did like itnobut the best one in the worldwho arrives at Coventry from Indiaand says if I don't like itI'll just leave the next day
18:20Well the thing is it's like she didn't knowShe was like well if I don't like itI'll just say I want to be I want to go backAnd that wasn't how it was going to rollI mean they had a I'm not even sureThey had a phone then it was in the 70sBut yeah so sheBut then she was in the marriage
18:35So you don't just leaveAnd then she got pregnantAnd it's like she's now marriedAnd it's and I thinkI mean, I don't know.I kind of think about it.And I just think there must have been,and also she had high premises,
18:50which is severe morning sickness.Oh, okay.And which I had as well.And my sister had.And I was like, oh my God,this is what you meant by morning sickness.It's the most horrendous thing.It's not just in the morning either, is it?
19:01No.Oh, no.I mean, I had it for three months.And I was bedridden.And, yeah.So she was.She had that.Oh, my God.
19:09And I think about her, I mean,I think about it's a lot because I've written about it a lot of research.and tried to tell her story in some way.And I just think how she,how resilient she wasand how strong she wasto be able to get through this.And I think we, as a kids,
19:26gave her strength and it gave her a reason to push through.And I think with my brother, who's the eldest,I think there was a bond between the two of them,which was kind of unbreakable.It was really strong.And I think he was, yeah, they were there for each other.But I do see the strength that she hadAnd I kind of go, it just blows my mind
19:47How resilient she was.Yeah.But and the other picture is of me with my son who's twoAnd Lila who's six.And it's like, it's, you know,You see echoes of clean.Yeah, yeah.Like a home is a home, you know.
20:06And it's that purity of just being with your kids.And yeah, it's a, I'm the beautiful.The Beatles pillow.The Beatles pillow, yeah.I love and I love.I think it's much, I always think about like when, you know, immigrant parents when they come over, particularly the women, how isolating, you know, the language, the culture, food.You know, like, I think I remember my mum saying that she had to go to buy olive oil, she had to go to the chemist because they didn't sell it in the supermarket.But they'd sell it in the chemist because apparently you used to use it for your ears.
20:39Yeah, they still sell it in.Yeah.So that's where my mum.bought by her olive oil.And so, I mean, like, was there already a community in Coventryso that your mum could kind of like go, well, at least I can speak to them about?Yeah.I mean, there was, eventually my mum's sister came to Birmingham and got married.
20:58And, yeah, they built a community.There is a strong sort of Asian community.But I think, yeah, it's, it was complicated because my mum saw a lot of stuff,which she thought was.hypocritical and so it's that thing or she saw things within the Asian community that shedidn't agree with so she started writing my dad was a writer as well and a poet and my mom is awriter was a writer and poet as well but the stuff she wrote about um I mean it was it was quitefierce she was a feminist but she wouldn't ever call herself a feminist because that wasn't you know
21:35at all she just wrote what she saw so she saw men who were drunk in the house and um and umyou know, violent or abusive to their partners,she would write it down in poem form and or stories.So she basically outed problems within the society,within our society that we have to look at.So she became very outspoken.And my dad would publish her books.And they were one of her plays, Gedi,
22:03which was about an abusive husband who,the wife basically, to protect her kids,sets fire to the father and the uncle.And it's kind of like a, you know, a revenge kind of drama.But there are things that happen.And she would basically, she would watch news and she would see things.And so she'd convert her responses into art and creative stuff.Wow.
22:29And so she had these books that were published, but a lot of people didn't like it.So because she was speaking up.And it's that thing of don't, you know, don't talk about your.community. Don't make thatpublic. And I think that I understand thatas I've gotten old of understand this protectionbecause there's enough people ready to putyou down. I mean there's enough
22:51people to say okay oh I was rightyou just have to look at the news andanything. And words like intersectionalityhadn't been invented yet. Yeah exactlyso it's kind of like wellwhy are you going to give your own community a newsto happen. Yeah but if she's on a kind offeminist she was coming from a feminist
23:07perspective or a class thingA human detective as a woman that thought it's not rightthat women shouldn't have a voice and should suffer.So she would try to understand what she saw.Did they make work together, your parents?Yeah, they did.So he published her poetry.Yeah, so my dad opened a printing press.
23:28How was that received with other aunties and other members of the community?So that's, my dad was incredible in the support.And I think I get my politics.and he's very activeso he was partlike the Indian Workers Associationand the Socialist Workers Partyso he was always very
23:49open and opento what my mum was doingand to usbut the wider communityI don't think they completely got itso I remember at schoolone of my friendsAsian friends
24:06who we became friendsBut when I first started chatting to her, she said,oh, my dad told me we can't play with you guys.What?Because we had a reputation for being artists.You know, or being outspoken or speaking.Radical artists.Yeah, but not even.
24:21That's great.Where are you really kind, human people?And that was another thing.My dad was.But that's so not the expected conversation of bigotry.That's not the kind of presumed my I can't play with you because it's like, hang on.Your family is a reputation.They're like radical socialist artists, so I can't play with you.
24:42You write poems.Stay away.Yeah, your dad's a socialist, so I'm not allowed to knock about with you.That's like...It was the 80s.That was like the worst possible time to be a socialist.I was about to go to another picture.Oh, I was going to go to my raving days.
25:03Let's have a look.Let's have a look.That's a real classic bedroom wall.So again, this connects again to my...You and Prince.I loved Prince.You're such a Prince mania.Oh, I loved Prince.
25:16It's literally her kryptonite.If you just, if Bobby Brown.Paralyze her with Prince.Like, stop talking.I know.Bobby Brown.I forgot.I liked him.
25:26And there's like body shop stuff when it first came out.Oh yeah.When it was still out.I was like, what the heck is that?When it was, yeah, it was lush.Yes, quite.Yeah, no.Of was great.
25:39Like, that's where Amnesia House started.Eclipse.Were you a raver?No.More pubs and...Such a raver.You're more cool than me.I was a pub, sort of grungy girl, not a raver.
25:51Yeah.I went through that stage as well, but...Yeah.Raving...Was there a good rave scene in Coventry?It was really...Midlands was great for raves.It was amazing because we had Eclipse, which was the first all-night venue to open.
26:04I think it was before Hacienda.There's nothing more...I'm not.sure. Someone will probably correct me on this.Starting at midnight, that was never for me. That's like what you're saying, all night.That kind of like, we get ready and we leave the house before midnight. I'm like, what?I live about eight. Even when I was young.Things I'd have break, like, so me and my friend Lisa, who took that picture, we would go every Friday or Saturday all night.
26:29And then we both had chambermaiding jobs. So sometimes we go straight to work.Because I had to pay my tickets for my raiding.Yes, you go straight to work.hard work. That was my first ever job. I know so hard. It's a physical hotel. So it's quitefancy. You couldn't just phone it in. Have you seen the DeVille? I thought DeVia is above likeHoliday Inn. It's above yeah. Yeah. But it looks exactly exactly. I went through it the other dayjust because I thought, oh well let's see what it's. Yeah. It's same wallpaper, same car.Really? And you were like archive. Oh, oh. Oh, same wallpaper. Okay. I did take some pictures
27:04actually. Yes, of course you did.He's research.You know, I do want to make my coff film.I want to make my cough something.I don't know what it is.There's got to be a chamber made film.Come on.I can't even think about the stuff that you found in the rooms.
27:20There's a Stephen Freer's film that starts with a chamber maid who finds like an ear or an organ and then the story unfold.We did have something really awful happened.Why?What happened?Someone did commit suicide.Okay.But we, so everyone just avoided this room.But this is hotel.
27:37I mean, the world of hotels is a million microsports.But mostly we got like chocolate hobnobs, so we had to...And you were on a come down, not a come down.What did you done?No, I wasn't like...You weren't doing MDM, you weren't doing E's.No, do you know what I would do?I would like nap every three hours, me and my friend,
27:52would go to toilet.What do you mean?You went to the toilet in the night bus and you were doing micro-disco naps.So we would like have little micro-naps.Then we'd hear a song that we love and we'd drum out and dance.Everyone else is like, everyone's like, I'm coming up.I was like, I have...such recollections of people's faces.
28:09We actually loved the music and we loved dancing.And it wasn't a drive vibe for you?Yeah, well, we kind of, no.No, you had your chamber.No, I think it, I've seen way too many casualties.Right. And it put me off.But it didn't put me off dancing.It didn't put me off wanting to be up all night.
28:31Oh, how brilliant.And that's you in this picture.This is the peak.That is the picture.How old are you in this picture?About?16.Oh, 16.
28:39Oh, you are a baby.You're a baby.The chambermaiding job, I lied because I couldn't, I was, I had to be 16 to get the job.So I said I was 16.But I remember starting you when I was 15.This is another world because now we both got teenage kids.They don't have jobs at that age.They don't have jobs.
28:57Why don't have jobs?They just don't.Like, it's not a thing.Like, Elsie got her first job.I think she was 16.And I helped her.I mean, it was a lot of her mates couldn't get jobs.It's quite hard.
29:08I had Saturday jobs from 13, 14, 15.Yeah.I mean, the hairdressers I worked in on a Saturday had at least four or five Saturday girls.What?Yeah.Which was a semi kind of like support group for teenage girls that were hung over, really.I mean, it was sort of a job.What were you doing just like sweeping up hair?
29:26Sweeping up, making tea, passing up, neutralising perms.Neutralising.Neutralising.Oh my gosh.That would have been me.Yeah, that's a lovely perm.You know, I used to twist my hair and just like.put it in lots of bombs and go to bed and in the morning wake up with.
29:39And it would just be like that?What?But, um, and my daughter did my daughter test her, actually.She twists it and goes to bed.What does she think about your, um, raving youth?Oh, gosh, she found one of my journals.What?Not good.
29:52And read it?Well, she didn't really like, I'd be mortified if my kids read my journals.So basically in the story, she found this book and it said, um, English homework and read it.And it was literally one of my nights out.And I was like, what happened?Well, she has, she kind of sees me differently.now. I'm not going to tell what I was in there. Whoa.But you think it, I was definitely not doing what she's doing at 15.
30:15Right. And it's like, yeah, I had a job. I was going to all-nighters.You were quite a good girl. You weren't doing drugs and you were going to work on the,after raving. Yes. You weren't, you weren't naughty. Yeah, no, you weren't naughty, but 15,I mean, that's tall. Think about it.Also, 15's quite young.Yeah. It's quite young. And I think about it now. There was a club called Reflection.And Coff people all know this.And it was the roughest nightclub in Coventry.
30:41And that was the first nightclub I ever went to because it was the place to go to.Oh, they always call reflections or options.There was a scene in hometown, hometown, where they went through all the club names.Oh, my gosh.When gas became liquid and then liquid became evaporation and then we spent the night of liquidation.And just like, oh, no, that was before it became evaporation.And it was all the club names.of Coventry. There is a whole page
31:09on Facebook which is like Coventry nostalgiaand it's awful when youactually really recognise a lot of those faces and makes youall really old. But the firstnight I ever went out, went out with myfriend and shewanted to get off with this guy. Soshe left me on the corner of this road
31:24and first time I'd ever been out. It's like threein the morning and everyone'saround me and it felt likeI was watching butno one knew I was there. So she went offdown this alleyway with this guyand in that moment these two guys went running down the roadafter this Asian guy glassed him
31:43and I was just like and then she came backand just went to my hands smell of cheeseOh no what happened to theOh okay oh rightI mean I would not be sniffing your friend's handsI'd be like mate you sniff himI was just like I'm outYeah I don't like it's my first night out
32:00I came out to Raven Archive and I do not want to be sniffing handshands. Thank you. No.What's the next one? Oh, should we do the wedding?You look so beautiful. I've seen this picture before. Look at you. You're very youngwhen you got married. How old were you? I think I was about 30, 29. Oh, not super. Well, you lookvery young. Are you pissed? You've got wine in your hand. What's that?So this is July 1st, 2006, and it was the quarterfinals of the World Cup with England versus Portugal.On your wedding day?
32:48On my wedding day.You're watching a football match.You probably didn't have a choice, did you?Basically, when we decided the day, because Neil's massively into football.Is it?He still plays every Thursday.I didn't know that.Oh, yeah.
33:00And I have not got a clue.though I watched Dear EnglandJames Graham playing and it's greatand I learned about penaltiesI love it that that's your offeringthat's your offering for the world of footballI have watched to play about itand I understand there's a thing called penalties
33:15Oh I do watch a World CupOn your wedding dayThat's noThat wasn't poshThat was gentleOh that was gentleYou're gentle of voiceBut I said to Niro
33:24I said whatever happensOur wedding day is not going to be about footballOh dearSoFast forward toSo then when we found out that the quarterfinals on our wedding daySo it's not even a final, it's a quarterfinal.And England never get to any final quarter semi-final final.
33:43And I just said, look, our wedding is more important.I said, no.And he said maybe we could put TV up.I was like, no, no, nothing.I was a complete.I was totally like, no, it's about our wedding.I said, I think everyone can sacrifice football for a day.When did you lose that battle?
33:58Because it clearly didn't plan out.Well, we got married to the Royal Society.of the Arts and Sciencesand we had this huge room.Where did you get married?Say that again.Royal Society of the Arts and Sciences.Where's that?
34:07In the Strand.Oh, okay.Beautiful place.And we basically just finished our main.So you had a big fancy wedding?Not big and fancy, just full of friends.On the Strand.Yeah, on the Strand.
34:22I mean, not on the Strand, but it was in a building.It was nice.Central London wedding.Yeah, it was really lovely.Yeah.And then, so I noticed that one of Neil's friends,It was like an antennae coming out of his ear.And this is pretty smart phones, isn't it?
34:35Yeah, of course.I was like, what are you doing?He was like, nothing.So they were like pockets of people.Listening to the radio.Listening to what's going on.And then after the main course, people started to disappear.And Neil was kind of like, sweating.
34:51He was literally like, you know, you can't control this.And then even my aunties were disappearing in my uncles.And I was like, it's really empty.So I went looking for the congregation.And I turned this corner and everybody was like watching on this wide screen TV.Oh my goodness.Watching the penalties.And I was like, and get back in there and have your clapjumans, which was the dessert.
35:16And I was like, and my auntie just said, oh, sit down.And I was like, oh, this is, my auntie's watching this as well.Oh, so if I go in there, I'm alone.So literally, at least it was penalties.That moment.Yeah, it's not long.I just sat down and someone gave me some wineand I was resigning myself
35:35and Neil turned the corner and took a pictureand he's like, what the fuck are you doing?And I was like, I'm watching the penalty.And we lost.Oh God.And then you got your wedding day back.And then everyone was like, oh, and then it was great.We danced.
35:51We had...Horse dancing.It was great.It was great.Where did you and Neil meet?Oh, God.That's a long story.Well, abbreviate it.
36:00Abbreviated.Pullet points.I haven't got short stories.Maginda.Okay.He watched me in a play.He saw you in a play.So he saw me in a play with Nabil.
36:11Nabil introduced us.Nabil and I just played a couple in Triggerpoint.Really?Oh my God.We have a romantic story.Oh, that was very subtle.When they told us, it was like, ooh.It's going to be a big thing.
36:22Our arms brush in a corridor.It's like, oh, okay.Nabil I've known for years.I love him.So he is the one who introduced me to Neil.Did he?So me and Nabil were doing...I didn't know that.
36:33He's your Cupid.Well, he is.So we were doing a play reading togetherand Neil was watching the play readingat Battersea Arts Centreand afterwards Nabil was like,this is Manginda, this is Neil,we went high, high and then didn't see each other
36:45for two years.But I remember him wearing a capand a leather jacketand he remembers this skinny Indian girlbeing quite good.And then years later, we met at my friend'sbirthday party.I was with someone else,
36:57he's with someone else.But we started chatting.and just clearly there was a connection but we stayed in touch yeah like just as friends yeahI was in his first short film and um so he had a background he's a filmmaker as well playwrightand a filmmaker yeah writer-director but we started on a work relationship but he was unlikeanyone else he was kind of not yeah he just wanted me to be the best of myself and before thatI dated a few actors oh terribleYou want to say, my husband's an actor.
37:33Ben is lovely.Yeah, Ben's lovely.He's an exception.Actually, not all actors.I mean, I'd put you on.We all just slag off comedians and actors.And then we go, oh yeah, they're all my friends.So and so, so, so is nice.
37:44I don't want to be in a relationship with any of them.But, no, Neil was, yeah, he is like the most sturdy.He's lovely.And so humble.Like, he's so talented.And he's not like me that shouts about what I do.He's like, he just quietly gets on with it.Check out the big stars, big series, and blockbuster movies.
38:10Streaming on Paramount Plus.Cue the music.Like NCIS, Tony and Ziva.We'd like to make up your own rules.Tulsa King.We want to take out the competition.The substance.This balance is not working.
38:25And the naked gun.That was awesome.Now that's a mountain number.Entertainment.What was this production, what was this a drama with Riz then?Because I was Brits.I don't remember that.I remember it very well.
38:42It was really huge, wasn't it, at the time.It was kind of interesting.2007?Yeah.Wow.As you walking past your face on a poster.Yeah, that was a...So you're just a baby, you're sitting in your 20s at this point.
38:56Yeah.So that was in South Bank.But there were posters everywhere.And I remember thinking, this is too much.So I'm not one of those people.Was this Peter Complincey's first big thing?Yes, who you've worked with as well.Who I've worked with as well.
39:09Yeah.But I, when there's, like, even doing this, I'm like, this is too public for me talking about.Oh, really?Yeah, I don't mind doing it, but I like to.So when I did Brits, it was quite, I mean, it's quite controversial.Yeah.So I played a medical student who becomes radicalized and becomes a suicide bother.and you were you in Riz Ahmed brother and sister yeah
39:33and he played someone who was working for the MI5it was very dramatic I remember it veryit was a tough watchit was really tough and it was but it was kind of likeincredible to do as an actorbut also to learn about the anti-terror legislationbecause Peter's thing is his researchand he's so good at that
39:56and he's so thorough and if you look at his documentariesfrom way back.He did the government inspectorjust a couple of years before.His work is amazing, isn't it?His work is amazing.We need those voicesto challenge the Institute.
40:08And that's another way of artskind of questioning society.This was his first dramathat he'd written.And how was that for youas an experience to shoot and all of it?It was incredible.Because we shot in India as well.
40:23But it's my first telelead.And a big job.Yeah.But I'm a big job.But when it came out, I remember being asked to you all these interviews,and I was terrified of saying the wrong thing.So I kind of, because you want something that's out there, it's out there.So I chose to write about it.
40:41So I wrote an article for Guardian about why I took the role on, what I hope it will do.And, you know, and then I just put that out there and did a couple of little small things, and that was it.But so when the posters were everywhere, I remember doing a play at the Royal Court,I thought, I'm just going to do something small.Right.So, yeah.And also, it wasn't, it was a time when it was difficult within the arts anyway.It was not like I was getting lots of offers because I was still the minority.
41:12So you can do what, you know, I remember we want a BAFTA for that.And two weeks later, I was asked to go and audition for a scene in a comedy.So nothing had changed.It was like, oh, but I, oh, okay.And that's the thing.He's like, I think Brits is a little bit dated, but I think off that, at that time, it was really important, the stuff that was being said and what was being discussed.So, you know, and then, but then it's the whole thing about representation.Yeah.
41:47I mean, I think what we, the conversation that we would have now probably wouldn't be about why certain people radicalised or in Britain.It would be what's caused the rat, because everything is through the lens of Western, sort of colonialism, isn't it?And so it's like these things are happening in a vacuum.I think the conversation now would be, well, what foreign policies or what has this, you know, what has this colonial infrastructure created and what is the, you know, and all roads lead back to Britain.Yes.And at that time, all roads led to.ISIS or the Taliban or the you know or the or or this whole idea of Muslim radicalisation whichis such a tiny tiny kind of percentile of people within that religion and it has caught
42:41it's so much damage and Islamophobia and otherism yeah and dehumanisation we see it offpre-9-11 even stories that were told um like actually Neil wrote a drama called second generationwhere there's Muslim and Indian characters.And you watch it, it's like watching a historical piecebecause there's none of the connotations of terrorism.Right.And now, you know, I think that's why stories are importantbecause we need all the nuances so we can actually understand
43:14that we're actually kind of all the same in a lot of ways.We want to just provide for our families.And, you know, people have, I don't think ordinary people have wild aspirations,And, you know, in fact, there's a play that I did about the far right, which is on tomorrow.Oh, the radio play.Radio 4 play.Yeah.Recorded about three weeks ago.
43:38And it was really uncomfortable in, because I had to do more research about the world of grooming of the far right.So, and then, oh, my algorithm completely changed.I was like, oh, okay, Tommy's on top here.I don't want that algorithm.It must have been a horrible algorithm.It's for people who have that, it's normal.So anyone who has your algorithm might find it sort of...Jarring.
44:05Yeah.But it's not to in any way say that's okay.It's more to do with if we don't step out of what is okay for us.And you're never going to find a way to be able to talk to our neighbours.And, you know, after the United Kingdom March, which was really destabilising,I did just saying everyone just go out and go to your local shop and just say hi how are you speak to the people that you don't speak to say hello more than you would I think people want to get on I don't I don't believe I really think they do as well and I and I think a lot of that othering that is being you know channeled through those algorithms that you that you witnessed you know I feel that that that dehumanization I think if for most of those people is that they have really no contextwith anyone that is different to them, whether they be gay, whether they be Muslim,whether they be from a different part of the world or whatever, or, you know, it's just,
45:02and that dehumanisation then is so very easy to use as a tool to beat the very peoplethat are being fucked over like you are.We just need leaders, you can see that and it's not led by...From a macro, politically, certainly, but in terms of like our, from what we've been talking aboutand your work is that we've all found communitythrough the artsand that's always been a spacewhere it's kind of like you're all
45:30everyone can comeeveryone's welcome and it might not be the same in politicsand it might not be the same in the footballand it might not be but in the artsin the theatre and in the youth clubsand the raveseveryone was welcomeand that is
45:45you know I lament that that's not as easy for my teenage kidsnot reallyWell, also, our phones aren't helping.No, the phones aren't helping.You can't have a rave on a smartphone.Let's go to, what's the next, is this the last photo of you in the desert?Wadi Rum in Jordan.Wow.
46:11When was that?The most incredible place.This time last year, so I was shooting a film.Fly Little Bird, which is in post-production at the moment.moment. Yeah, so we were out there sort of two months, but I knew about Radiram and Petra.And it was just somewhere that I wanted to go. But our shooting schedule was really ridiculous.And it was, I think it was like a three hour drive to get there. It was just spectacular in thefact that, yeah, people should be coming. And I think obviously people are not visiting these countries.
46:50But, yeah, I just know, I never thought we'd make it to Radi Ran because we got evacuated previously from, from Amman while we're in the middle of the shoot, because of the missiles from Iraq to Israel.And the day after, I was literally going to go to Radi Ran.And I remember we were shooting, it was now, it was a night shoot.first time we'd been outside and it was in the middle of night and I remember looking upand everyone had told me in Wadi Rom you will see shooting stars and it will be like somethingthat you've never seen before. They're just there in the sky because it's so clear. So I was like,I'm going to Wadi Rang tomorrow and it's going to be incredible. And I remember, I was standingby my treadmill, I looked up and I saw something fly across the sky and I literally got my phone
47:49And I was like, shooting stuff.Oh, God.No, no, no, meant to have.Start a plonker.It was missiles.And I was like, what the fuck?And, yeah, and that's when we just saw lots of them.And then rather than being a Wadi Ron, we were evacuated and we flew back to London the next day.
48:08But I remember when we left, everyone, we had a crew.It was like American, British, German, Jordanians.and we all wanted to come back to finish the shoot.And I remember, so it was after a month, we were back on to fly back.But the thing, and actually, again, Neil, you know, my husband being really supportive of this.He could have just said, no way.And I do remember calling him when we saw the missiles.And I just said, don't watch news and I'm fine.
48:42All you need to know.Yeah.But when, so when we flew back in to Jordan, it was at night.And again, I was really looking forward to going back, seeing everyone again, finishing this film.And then out the corner of my eye on the plane, as we were about to go down,I remember just seeing sparks from the plane window.And I looked down, and it wasn't coming from the sky.It wasn't lightning.
49:10It was just bits of light, which were just lighting up parts of Mastaf and Gaza.So you literally saw the bombs fall at nightAnd I just got absolutely shiversAnd it was chillingSo where can people go and see the exhibition?Oh gosh, okayYou can see itHere, why don't you, I haven't got my glasses on
49:38You've got your glasses on.So the stories that made usRoots, Resilience and Representationis on at the Herbert Art Galleryand Museum in CoventryThat's on from the 14th of November to the 19th of April.This looks great.Archives.
49:56This is right up our street.Oh, yeah.So, and then also, Manchin, you've got a film.This is a beautiful film.How do you pronounce that?We didn't even talk about it.It's a Deco, look.Deco.
50:09Deco.Deco.Deco.Which is going to be played at the Aesthetica Film Festival in Yorkbetween the 6th to the 9th of November.This film was commissioned by the Alzheimer's Society, wasn't it?And do you want to tell us a little bit about that?It's worth plugging it.
50:25Is it a short or is it a picture?So my mum sadly had dementiaand we lost her to the illness.And throughout, it's probably one of the most difficult thingsI've ever been throughto slowly grieve someone and lose someone.And especially like, you know, knowing who,who she was and yeah and I wanted to do something um to talk about dementia within our communities
50:52and especially within the Asian community and I found people found it difficult to talk aboutwell the key thing that I'm a lot stayed with me but that there's no word for it in Punjabi yeah thereisn't there is a word if you look up for Alzheimer's or dementia dementia it comes up asbargle like you're mad so and so you there's already a stigma attached to it and I want and I know sofamilies going through it. My own extended families, they've got people with dementia, and there'sno support system. So I knew I wanted to do something. So I'd been collecting notes about what part ofmy mum's story I might tell. Again, it had to be fiction. So I had to remove it. So I wrote a shortfilm for Alzheimer's Society, heavily influenced by personal experience, but at a time when someone
51:41looks like they're not ill, but are obviously, they've obviously got stages and symptoms.And I wanted to look at it from a child's point of view because my kids found it difficult.They, and I think it's something that we don't talk about because as adults, we don't understandit, so we just avoid it.So poor kids, how are they ever supposed to learn about it?How this was a process it.Yeah, so the whole film is from a 10-year-old boy, my son, his point of view.and yeah it follows her sort of loss of English language
52:14and how she has resorted speaking in Punjabi which is her mother tongueyeah so it's kind of wow it's beautiful it's really beautifulthank you thank you thank you thank you so much you tooyou too you went away with Chloe to a haunted hotel like well you said itwas haunted. You implied it? No, I said it was an old hotel and you said, was it haunted? And I saidvery possibly. Okay. Okay, but there was no hauntings that night. I said Whittsville Pearl and youwent, oh, that reminds me. That reminds me. So we're in this hotel and the hotel and the hotel isold and that was, the reason I was telling it was old is to get to the point of why we were
52:58watching what we were watching. And, and very cold and the heating in the corner of the hotel thatwe were in wasn't working in that wing. We ended up moving, but at that point we hadn't moved. SoWe're under the covers watching television, trying to warm up, drinking a cup of tea.Sounds hot.Sounds very sexy.I mean, it is the sexiest time.What a great date night.We did think that we were like, we really nailing this.
53:22This is classic Chloe and I, like, whenever we go away.It's classic all old of couples.When you've been together 790 years, weekend away, you're like, we'll just tuck up on it, watch some cellies, shall we?Yeah, Chloe cleaned out the tea drawer, stuck it in a bag.That's what she always does.It's like you've never been doing.hotel before. Anyway, the fact that you took the long life milk, I thought was a step too far,but we won't go into it. Yeah, but if it's who she is, it's who she is. She doesn't want
53:47to compromise on who she is. I found a, I found a packet of hot chocolate in my bag theday. I went, I don't, where did that come from? You went, I'll put it in there. Littletreat. A little treat for you when you go on tour. I went, well, I am saying at hotelsthat doesn't matter is thoughtful. So we're in there tucked up and the television is just ashitty digital one. You can't get like any kind of Netflix or anything.like that on there.So we're going through generic TV channelsand all of them are not tuned.
54:15You can't get anything.Right.But you can get a channel called drama.Drama.That's a broad church.And who should be, who should be on drama?Me!But back-to-back episodes of Wittstable Pearl.
54:28I wonder why.I wonder why.Like, I've never heard of drama channel.Well, you've heard of it now.Because there you were, Kerry.You didn't watch it.We did.Jen.
54:43We watched two and a half episodes.What?Yeah.Jen?Yeah.You don't answer my fucking WhatsApp, but you'll watch two and a half episodes of me wanking on telly.Yeah.Yeah.
54:54There was a weird thing.You were in a relationship with Robert Webb.Here we go.I was like, where did that come from?I thought there was a will you won't you with the flipping...When did you leave off the other, season one?Yeah.Right.
55:04Well, we've done three.Oh, okay.A lot's happened.I missed season two.And then we've gone into season threeand Robert Webb's thereand I'm like, I don't really understand that relationship.Wait, how does that happen?
55:15He came in in season two.Did he?Yeah, he's my boyfriend.Boyfriend.Oh, wow.So it's a love triangle now.Actually, a love squarebecause also Howard's character as a girlfriend.
55:25Girlfriend.Yeah, but he's, because I saw the one,what one of them was he,was almost like rear,what's that one, that Hitchcock one,when he sees a murder?Rear window.Is it rear window?
55:37That's the rear window, isn't that in the car?No, it's in a house out the back of the window.Jimmy Stewart in a wheelchair.Jimmy Stewart in a wheelchair.I need said wheelbarrow.Jimmy Stewart in a wheelbarrow.Oh my God, that would be so much better if he was in a wheelbarrow.Yes, it's like Jimmy Stewart in a wheelbarrow except it was him with his leg up, stuck in the thing, watching a woman being attacked by her husband.
55:56Well, that whole episode.Yeah.Was that it wasn't.Don't give it away.Oh, okay.Yeah, that whole episode is based on real window.I've really got that.Yeah, because you were kind of implying like you were clever to notice it, but I think...
56:11But it was definitely front and centre of the whole vibe.Right, okay.Well, what was your character in it?Well, I'm Wittstable Pearl.They were doing a homage.They weren't doing a remake of Rear Window.Right.They were doing a homage.
56:26Do they call it a homage or an homage?Is the H silent?I meloprop most days, so this could be today's quota fulfilled.Okay, so I didn't get that, that, that I didn't get that, that that was a deliberate thing.It was deliberate.But it also, they do one episode per season where they do a homage.And you are absolutely delightful in it.Very different to your real life personality.
56:53Really?Yeah, because you're quite warm, sort of gentle kind of person, inquisitive.I am all those things.I am all those things.Jen?No.I am all those things.Wow.
57:05Are you?I am warm.Yeah.I am inquisitive.And what was the other one?I don't know.I'm all of those things.Nice, friendly.
57:14It just seems like that because I've got a bobble out on, but it's just me.I was watching it going, wow, this is a very different Kerry.But I suppose you are acting.Yeah, I'm acting.You're acting.And I don't think you'd ever put up with that bloke.Either of them.Either of those men in real life.
57:32I love how committed you are to this.In real life, I just kept thinking there's no way Kerry could have put up withBut I'm not Kerry.I'm Wittable Pearl.I know.I'm Pearl Lohman.I live in Wittstable.I'm a Kemp Bell.
57:42Yeah.And you used to be a copper.I used to be a police officer.Then I got a seafood restaurant.I'm a single mum.It's not me, Jen.It's Wittstable Pearl.It looks like you.
57:52She's got my face.She's got your face.She hasn't got your hair.Really?Yeah, it's got different hair.No, different hair.Different wardrobe.Different wardrobe.
58:02Very different.No emcy.How much trousers?No.No MC Hammers.Have you taken the H from homage, put it on to MC Hammer.Yeah, yeah.I think we ought to be doing that a bit more.
58:14Take the H away from when the H is silent and add it to a word that doesn't have an age.Yes, I have a surplus of H's because I've dropped them all because of my accent.Yeah.So stick them all somewhere else.Well, that's what happens when you're a Kent Bell.I've got a plant called Kent Bell.Anyway, look, stop talking.Thank you.
58:38Thank you.
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