Memory Lane with Kerry Godliman and Jen Brister - S04 E32: Manjinder Virk

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

"No... They were missiles..."It is such an absolute delight to have the uber talented and brilliant @Manjinder23 on the podcast this week!We chatted about her amazing mum, raving in Coventry, her wedding, Britz and filming in Jordan. Manjinder is pretty busy...DEKHO (film) I wrote and directed with support from Alzheimer’s Society will be screening at Aesthetica Film Festival, York (November 6-9)https://www.asff.co.uk/ - @riverbird_filmsTwo films, “ The Living Room” (1970’s) & “The Teenage Years” (1980’s) commissioned for the Stories That Made Us exhibition at Herbert Art Gallery, Coventry will open on November 14th - May 25th 2026https://www.theherbert.org/whats-on/1852/stories-that-made-us-roots-resilience-representation PLUS... Kerry and Jen chat about botox,emojis, a haunted hotel and a possible hammer toe. JEN & KERRY STAND-UP TOURSKerry's 2025 tour is on sale now - https://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/kerry-godliman-tickets/artist/1866728Jen's 2025 tour is on sale now - https://www.jenbrister.co.uk/tour/PICS & MORE - https://www.instagram.com/memory_lane_podcast/A Dot Dot Dot Production produced by Joel PorterHosted by Jen Brister & Kerry Godliman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. Hello and welcome to Memory Lane. I'm Jen Bristair and I'm Kerry Godleman. Each week we'll be taking a trip down Memory Lane with our very special guest as they bring in four photos from their lives to talk about. To check out the photos we'd be having a natter with them about, they're on the episode image and you can also see them a little bit more clearly on our Instagram page. So have a little look at Memory Lane podcast. Come on, we can all be nosy together. I mean, are you watching South Park at the moment? No, when's it on? It just comes on when it comes on.

Oh, no. I'm not watching television just when I hope the South Park comes on. Anyway, the facelift people, just the slide in the middle. Just a face falling off. And then all this team of like, putting faces back. Oh, I was, who was I talking to the other day? And I was like, why is your face not moving? And then I remember, Botox.

Mm-hmm. It was like this. Yeah, well, I couldn't believe it. I was like, do you want to tell your face? Show your fucking face that. I couldn't believe it. I'm outraged. I couldn't believe it.

I'm absolutely outraged. I said to them, are you out of your mind? And they said, no, I couldn't believe it. Oh my fucking. So many feelings. But you wouldn't know. None of them can be expressed. I find I do double, I do double emoting.

I really felt myself double emoting. What do you mean? Like a double take? No, almost like the less her face moved, the more I kind of went. Oh, you were overcompensating? In a way where I run, I'll moat for you. Wow. Wow. I know. I don't know if that's a good... Like you're doing a double shift in emotion.

I'm doing her voting, yeah, yeah. Because I thought, I know that you're trying to tell me something with your face and it's not happening. So I will express that for you. So when she was like, I couldn't believe it, but her face was going, I couldn't believe it. I went, oh, you couldn't believe it. That was brilliant. I was mirroring. That's like, have you come across.

across old people, two problems with old people. One, quite a lot of them are women talk with their eyes closed. So oftentimes they will just talk in their eyes closed and I'm like, and they're like, anyway. So they're just talking with their eyes closed. And then there's the other kind

that finish your sentences for you. And I think the former is mostly women and the latter is mostly men. Men, yeah. So men, and they're, oh, the one, eight, four bus, right. And then you... I'm finished, Barry! You don't know, I never got on the bus, Barry!

Don't speak for me, Barry! So those two things. So what you were doing was a facial equivalent of the sentence finishing. You were doing that with your face. Oh my God, I hadn't thought about it. Didn't that was quite passive aggressive? No, I'm just saying you thought,

like those old men that think they're doing your favour by helping you finish your sentence. I wasn't helping. You were, oh, I'll do your faces for you because you can't move your face because you've had so much fucking work done. But also, she couldn't emote the fact that she thought it was weird

that I was doing her emotions for her. So I didn't, even if she thought, how do you know, there was no indication, there was no means of you knowing. No way of me knowing. So people are going to have to hold sandwich boards up now with feelings. Right now, I'm annoyed. Yeah.

Like all the emotions, people have outsourced their face to their emoji menu. Yeah, but that's no good when I'm in a conversation with you. Unless you've got like an emoji card. to put over your face. Frazzled. Top hat. Clown face.

My favourite at the moment is spiralised. That's the one I'm going with mostly this week. What spiral eyes? Oh, spiral eyes. Oh yeah, that's a good one. I've never used that one. I've only just started. What context?

Oh, lots going on, bit frazzled. Yeah. I was a bit late the other day. Sparalised. Sorry, did I not answer your email? So if you stop using the other one, which is like, that. Oh, I like that one. I go back to that one. I go, I use that one. I don't know where the hand came from. The hand isn't there. Oh, the hand one's great. The little hands. What I want to know?

Is that one that's skidding along the floor? What's that one about? A melt. You're a melt. Oh, you're having a melt. You're a melt. What does it mean? Now, what does it mean? I know. I assume that. Because it's used in lots of context, isn't it? Like, if you're a melt, does that mean you're a snowflake? You're, I've no one's ever said that to me. I don't know it's a parlance word. Oh, is that, you got that from your children. You don't know that word. I've heard it in the vernacular of the young. I'm on social media. I'm on social media.

The only people following you are over 45. No one's ever said melt to you on social media. I've heard it on podcasts. Fine. I occasionally am a tourist in the land of the young. Okay. And I hear phrases. Yeah.

And I've got teenage children. Yeah. And I hear phrases like, oh, you melt. And I assume by the context. It doesn't sound positive. No, I think it's playfully derisive. Okay. So when

So but I can't even remember the context But somebody sent me that emoji And I went I don't know what that means What are you trying to say with that emoji? Ask AI Ask AI I mean now you don't Well you're not meant to are you

But if you do If you're ever If you've got a problem ask AI You can't ask AI No No because of the environment Do you know Six fish will die

If you ask Chatchee PC anything So if I say Oh what does that melting emoji symbolise? That's three trout dead, a couple of cod and maybe a halibut. And that's on you. I can't hold that. No, you can't hold that. I can't.

That's why don't use it. People are chat cheap-teeing stuff. I'm like, you know the answer to that. Why you're asking chat cheap-t? Companionship. Oh no, God. Do you know what? Don't start that.

Somebody said to me that they're in a relationship with the chat cheap-ch-e-tie. They are paying for it. She has a voice. She said, oh, I've been talking to her so much. I've now got her voice exactly. the way I like it. Whoa. So the chat GPT

will respond in a way that she thinks she likes it. Right. And they chat. About feelings? Yeah. All sorts of things.

I think that's the future. I mean, it's bleak. Sure. That's not my future. No, sure. You can have your future but I think globally that's the way it's going.

I don't want to speak to anyone, let alone chatch. No, I've cleaned that from our WhatsApp group. I've gleaned that. I've gleaned your minimalism. Thumbs up emoji. I used to get pissed off with my brother when I asked him a really in-depth question and you'd go, okay. Well, that's you now.

That's me now. That's who you've become. It's time. I'm time poor. And also, you know what I mean. And that's, I feel like that's... Oh, it's inferred, is it? It's an inference with silence.

Yeah, a lot of the time. I mean, I could project a lot onto silence. But often I'm inferring a compliment. You just don't know. How the fuck would I know? It's so hard to get a compliment out of you. Like, for example, when I arrived today and you said, I looked like MC Hammer.

I didn't say that. What happened was, you said, I can't wear these boots. They hurt my feet. They hurt my feet. And I said, is it a hammer toe? And you went, is that like hammer time? Do do, do, do. And then I went, well, you've got the trousers for it.

And what I meant by that was, you could have been wearing any trousers. And yet I'm wearing kind of baggy trousers. You're wearing barrel leg trousers. Barrel leg trousers. Not Haram Pants, which is what MC Hammer wore, famously. that Hamilton video. But if you had let me finish... I think you just went straight for the gag.

I don't think there was any nuance. I don't think there was any worry about fallout. If you'd let me finish, I... After that, gag, okay? I was about to say, and by the way... I love your bowel lectures. No way. There was no way a gap.

And when you walked in, didn't I say... There was not a compliment-shaped gap in that silence. I started with a compliment. I middled it with a gag. And I was about to end the gag with a compliment. But you didn't allow. it to happen. You jumped the gun.

No, I didn't. I just facially, I just facially. You shut it down. I cried. I let all my emotions be received facially. Well, because I've still got all the faculties of my facial muscles. And verbally and verbally. Yeah.

As was evidence. When that man came to the room and went. Oh yeah. When that man came and told us to be quiet. Yeah. Neither of us responded very well to that. We were both like, yeah, all right. Oh, fuck.

Go fuck yourself. It's what's hard enough being told by a man to do anything but this. I thought of... Yeah, listen, mate. You don't know who you're talking to. I was like, you do not know who you're talking to. And you're... And luckily, Kerry Godderman's got her back to you right now

because otherwise it would be a fucking dabble whammy. It's lucky those tables are in the way, mate. No. No, we did nothing. Anyway, what I wanted to ask you, which we... We've gone all around the circles and the houses. Houses, thank you, because I've forgotten what that was. What's going on with your foot?

Oh, I reckon, I don't know. I got an x-ray and it's nothing bonal. Is that word? It's not a word. I think it could be arthritis. It flares up, it comes and goes. It's cheeky little fucker. Would that not show up in an x-ray?

No, I don't think x-rays for arthritis. Doesn't it affect the bone somehow? I think along the road, but we're at early stage, I think. Anyway, I've self-diagnosed. You've self-diagnosed. Okay. Because my mum's got arthritis and I've heard a lot about arthritis and I think it could be arthritis. Is it genetic?

I don't know. I don't think it is. No, but it's quite common. Okay, so you've got undiagnosed or self-diagnosed arthritis. I've got an excruciating pain in my foot that comes and goes. And these boots that I was wearing today, which I rarely wear, in fact, I think I'm going to get rid of them. Cause pain. in my foot.

Kerry, have you thought about the fact that you might have gout? Why would I have gout? Isn't that like damp? I had gout one year at Edinburgh. Do you remember that year

it rained relentlessly? Gout isn't something you get caused by the damp. Jesus Christ. These are all medieval conditions. You've got gout. It's in your toe.

What's gout? I've just decided. What is it? It's a condition often caused by... Are you medically trained? Yeah. Often caused by eating too much

cheese or drinking too much port. I don't drink port. I do like cheese But I don't think I eat too much No It can be over time I tell you who else has got cow

Go on John Robbins What properly Yeah Diagnosed Yeah He drinks Not anymore

No he's packed it in now But that could be booze related Mine isn't I don't drink that much Although I did I went out with Elsie in Liverpool And got absolutely shitfaced in a jazz club Oh my god

You can't get drunk with your daughter No I felt bad about it Did you? Not too bad though No, we had a really good time. That sounds great, where'd you go? We went to a jazz club in Liverpool. Jazz, baby.

It's a really good fun. You love it. Yeah? Kerry, who are we talking to today? Today, we're talking to my wonderful friend, Manjinda Burke, and she, oh my God, is there anything this woman can't do? I met her acting, she's an actor, but she's a filmmaker. A dramaturg?

A dramaturg. Is that a playwright? Yes, I think it's a playwright. So she's a playwright as well. Playwright, yeah. Yeah, she makes short films, she makes plays, she makes art, she's got an exhibition. She's a contemporary dancer. She can dance.

She came with so many stories, so many brilliant pictures. I mean, we talked and talked. We did talk and talked. This was a really, really great conversation and we had a lot of fun with Manginda. So this is Kerry and I talking to Manginda Burke. Where did you go out, Manginda? Coventry. Did you?

She's Cov. You're Cov. There's a mural of Manginda in Coventry. She's like... Get out! Cool meadow station. I love that. That is so cool.

I actually didn't put it up on this, but I... See, we might stick that in as well because when I saw that on Instagram, I was like... She's got a mural of her face in Coventry. That is wild. Terry Hall is next to me, which is much more of a claim to fame. Who cares? You're next to Terry Hall and...

I know. And Hazel O'Connor. Hazel O'Connor! But no one can recognise it because she looks a bit distorted. Are you the three, Coventry? You're the Rushmore Island. What is it? Rushmore.

There's more. What's at Pauline Black? Is she from Coventry? Or Leicester? Oh, God. No, no, she's not. She's a Selector. Selecter.

Yeah. Is she not Cove? She might be Cove as well. My brother would know. He's like a fun of... Is he a Cov-ed? Oh, complete. Cov-maniac.

The exhibition. Oh my gosh. We'll talk about this exhibition. Maybe you should... Yeah, we'll get him on then. Yeah. Oh, he... I stopped talking.

Oh, yeah. That's annoying. That's annoying. Conditions apply. We've got to talk about your photos. Oh, wow. There's too many to choose from here. Let's go to the first one. The chronology.

Bronolology. Oh, no, no. Look at you. I don't. Right. Niels, I can't believe it. I'm not sure about the chubby baby one. He was like, what's to tell?

I'm like, well, look at my poloneck. I mean, I'm going to just whizz through a lot of these. Is that cordoneloy? It's a corduroy. Oh, corduroy is a fabulous fabric. I'm rocking it today. It comes, it goes. It comes and goes.

It's coming and it's going. And it was solid in the 70s. The 70s was big. Look, I did my research on you two. So I've got you some biscuits. Oh, wow. Look, he can. Shortbread.

I know what kind of show. No, this is because I said I didn't like biscuits. You know, I've got you some pickles. Oh, my ginger. Yeah. I literally was like, last night I thought, I better do some research up on myself, some blueberry. Oh.

Oh, look at that. Look at your face. And the biscuits came out. I don't like biscuits. I know. Pickles! Well, you can't, but you will be masticating on a podcast. I'll put them here.

She's been waiting to say masticate. It's good job I didn't get that word malapropped, isn't it? Finally. Is this your mum and you and your brother? Around the same time. So, no, my sister. So it's me on the sofa with the big hair and the red jumper. Yep.

I love that wallpaper. My sister, that is, we've recreated that, you see, for the ex- Exhibition, which is just crazy. We should, yes, that's, because I don't know. It's interesting because the theme of our podcast is obviously all what your exhibition is about. Oh my gosh. It's all about nostalgia and recreating photographs. Yeah.

Oh my God. Which opens next week. Slightly terrifying. Exciting, though. Kind of terrifying. So are these the kind of pictures that you've been trawling through with your brother and recreating? Yes. And then I found, went into storage last week, and I found so much more.

I found a suitcase full of photo albums from Russia, from, like all these holidays. Holidays in Russia? I went to Russia with the youth theatre. What? Yeah. Whoa. What was that what?

The Soviet Union? Before it was Russia. It was no, it was 89. Yeah, so before the war went down. It was still the Soviet. Yeah. It was kind of on the brink of, oh my God, was it 88, 89? it was falling apart.

So when we went... It was already crumbling. And then the kids from fame from Coventry rock up. We all turned up and we did a play about safer sex. We gave out condoms. Oh, there was a lot of that in the 90s.

My youth get in a safe sex film. Because their condoms apparently don't work. So we went out and with like loads of condoms but which film were with water and just chuck them down to people. Oh, I really want these times back. I love those times.

I went sound such an... Oh my, I've just found so many more pictures which was just really confusing. Okay, you've got to focus, Manginda, you've got to focus. You have to pick. I have to pick. Pick one now. I'll pick this one.

Right. So who's in this picture? You and your sister and your mum. Where is it, Coventry? So that's Cov. Tell us about your mum. Oh, look at your mum's face. Oh, my beautiful mum.

So sadly, my mum has passed away now. So anytime I see... A picture of it. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like, it's lovely, but it's, you kind of just carry this sense of loss as well. Yeah. You know, a celebration of life. Yeah, it's huge.

This, I think I was about two, my sister's one year younger than me. And she had basically come from India. She emigrated when she was 19 years old. On her own? On her own to marry my dad. And she'd never left India before. and she never been on a plane before so she travelled by herself

turned up in Coventry and I actually did my first ever short film that I made made a dock but I recorded her journey and she speaks about it and she says well I got on this plane and I thought if I don't like it I'm just going to go back the next day and then she didn't go back for eight years

and there'll be three kids yeah so I think it was so she did like it no but the best one in the world who arrives at Coventry from India and says if I don't like it I'll just leave the next day

Well the thing is it's like she didn't know She was like well if I don't like it I'll just say I want to be I want to go back And that wasn't how it was going to roll I mean they had a I'm not even sure They had a phone then it was in the 70s But yeah so she But then she was in the marriage

So you don't just leave And then she got pregnant And it's like she's now married And it's and I think I mean, I don't know. I kind of think about it. And I just think there must have been, and also she had high premises,

which is severe morning sickness. Oh, okay. And which I had as well. And my sister had. And I was like, oh my God, this is what you meant by morning sickness. It's the most horrendous thing. It's not just in the morning either, is it?

No. Oh, no. I mean, I had it for three months. And I was bedridden. And, yeah. So she was. She had that. Oh, my God.

And I think about her, I mean, I think about it's a lot because I've written about it a lot of research. and tried to tell her story in some way. And I just think how she, how resilient she was and how strong she was to be able to get through this. And I think we, as a kids,

gave her strength and it gave her a reason to push through. And I think with my brother, who's the eldest, I think there was a bond between the two of them, which was kind of unbreakable. It was really strong. And I think he was, yeah, they were there for each other. But I do see the strength that she had And I kind of go, it just blows my mind

How resilient she was. Yeah. But and the other picture is of me with my son who's two And Lila who's six. And it's like, it's, you know, You see echoes of clean. Yeah, yeah. Like a home is a home, you know.

And it's that purity of just being with your kids. And yeah, it's a, I'm the beautiful. The Beatles pillow. The Beatles pillow, yeah. I love and I love. I think it's much, I always think about like when, you know, immigrant parents when they come over, particularly the women, how isolating, you know, the language, the culture, food. You know, like, I think I remember my mum saying that she had to go to buy olive oil, she had to go to the chemist because they didn't sell it in the supermarket. But they'd sell it in the chemist because apparently you used to use it for your ears.

Yeah, they still sell it in. Yeah. So that's where my mum. bought by her olive oil. And so, I mean, like, was there already a community in Coventry so that your mum could kind of like go, well, at least I can speak to them about? Yeah. I mean, there was, eventually my mum's sister came to Birmingham and got married.

And, yeah, they built a community. There is a strong sort of Asian community. But I think, yeah, it's, it was complicated because my mum saw a lot of stuff, which she thought was. hypocritical and so it's that thing or she saw things within the Asian community that she didn't agree with so she started writing my dad was a writer as well and a poet and my mom is a writer was a writer and poet as well but the stuff she wrote about um I mean it was it was quite fierce she was a feminist but she wouldn't ever call herself a feminist because that wasn't you know

at all she just wrote what she saw so she saw men who were drunk in the house and um and um you know, violent or abusive to their partners, she would write it down in poem form and or stories. So she basically outed problems within the society, within our society that we have to look at. So she became very outspoken. And my dad would publish her books. And they were one of her plays, Gedi,

which was about an abusive husband who, the wife basically, to protect her kids, sets fire to the father and the uncle. And it's kind of like a, you know, a revenge kind of drama. But there are things that happen. And she would basically, she would watch news and she would see things. And so she'd convert her responses into art and creative stuff. Wow.

And so she had these books that were published, but a lot of people didn't like it. So because she was speaking up. And it's that thing of don't, you know, don't talk about your. community. Don't make that public. And I think that I understand that as I've gotten old of understand this protection because there's enough people ready to put you down. I mean there's enough

people to say okay oh I was right you just have to look at the news and anything. And words like intersectionality hadn't been invented yet. Yeah exactly so it's kind of like well why are you going to give your own community a news to happen. Yeah but if she's on a kind of feminist she was coming from a feminist

perspective or a class thing A human detective as a woman that thought it's not right that women shouldn't have a voice and should suffer. So she would try to understand what she saw. Did they make work together, your parents? Yeah, they did. So he published her poetry. Yeah, so my dad opened a printing press.

How was that received with other aunties and other members of the community? So that's, my dad was incredible in the support. And I think I get my politics. and he's very active so he was part like the Indian Workers Association and the Socialist Workers Party so he was always very

open and open to what my mum was doing and to us but the wider community I don't think they completely got it so I remember at school one of my friends Asian friends

who we became friends But when I first started chatting to her, she said, oh, my dad told me we can't play with you guys. What? Because we had a reputation for being artists. You know, or being outspoken or speaking. Radical artists. Yeah, but not even.

That's great. Where are you really kind, human people? And that was another thing. My dad was. But that's so not the expected conversation of bigotry. That's not the kind of presumed my I can't play with you because it's like, hang on. Your family is a reputation. They're like radical socialist artists, so I can't play with you.

You write poems. Stay away. Yeah, your dad's a socialist, so I'm not allowed to knock about with you. That's like... It was the 80s. That was like the worst possible time to be a socialist. I was about to go to another picture. Oh, I was going to go to my raving days.

Let's have a look. Let's have a look. That's a real classic bedroom wall. So again, this connects again to my... You and Prince. I loved Prince. You're such a Prince mania. Oh, I loved Prince.

It's literally her kryptonite. If you just, if Bobby Brown. Paralyze her with Prince. Like, stop talking. I know. Bobby Brown. I forgot. I liked him.

And there's like body shop stuff when it first came out. Oh yeah. When it was still out. I was like, what the heck is that? When it was, yeah, it was lush. Yes, quite. Yeah, no. Of was great.

Like, that's where Amnesia House started. Eclipse. Were you a raver? No. More pubs and... Such a raver. You're more cool than me. I was a pub, sort of grungy girl, not a raver.

Yeah. I went through that stage as well, but... Yeah. Raving... Was there a good rave scene in Coventry? It was really... Midlands was great for raves. It was amazing because we had Eclipse, which was the first all-night venue to open.

I think it was before Hacienda. There's nothing more... I'm not. sure. Someone will probably correct me on this. Starting at midnight, that was never for me. That's like what you're saying, all night. That kind of like, we get ready and we leave the house before midnight. I'm like, what? I live about eight. Even when I was young. Things I'd have break, like, so me and my friend Lisa, who took that picture, we would go every Friday or Saturday all night.

And then we both had chambermaiding jobs. So sometimes we go straight to work. Because I had to pay my tickets for my raiding. Yes, you go straight to work. hard work. That was my first ever job. I know so hard. It's a physical hotel. So it's quite fancy. You couldn't just phone it in. Have you seen the DeVille? I thought DeVia is above like Holiday Inn. It's above yeah. Yeah. But it looks exactly exactly. I went through it the other day just because I thought, oh well let's see what it's. Yeah. It's same wallpaper, same car. Really? And you were like archive. Oh, oh. Oh, same wallpaper. Okay. I did take some pictures

actually. Yes, of course you did. He's research. You know, I do want to make my coff film. I want to make my cough something. I don't know what it is. There's got to be a chamber made film. Come on. I can't even think about the stuff that you found in the rooms.

There's a Stephen Freer's film that starts with a chamber maid who finds like an ear or an organ and then the story unfold. We did have something really awful happened. Why? What happened? Someone did commit suicide. Okay. But we, so everyone just avoided this room. But this is hotel.

I mean, the world of hotels is a million microsports. But mostly we got like chocolate hobnobs, so we had to... And you were on a come down, not a come down. What did you done? No, I wasn't like... You weren't doing MDM, you weren't doing E's. No, do you know what I would do? I would like nap every three hours, me and my friend,

would go to toilet. What do you mean? You went to the toilet in the night bus and you were doing micro-disco naps. So we would like have little micro-naps. Then we'd hear a song that we love and we'd drum out and dance. Everyone else is like, everyone's like, I'm coming up. I was like, I have... such recollections of people's faces.

We actually loved the music and we loved dancing. And it wasn't a drive vibe for you? Yeah, well, we kind of, no. No, you had your chamber. No, I think it, I've seen way too many casualties. Right. And it put me off. But it didn't put me off dancing. It didn't put me off wanting to be up all night.

Oh, how brilliant. And that's you in this picture. This is the peak. That is the picture. How old are you in this picture? About? 16. Oh, 16.

Oh, you are a baby. You're a baby. The chambermaiding job, I lied because I couldn't, I was, I had to be 16 to get the job. So I said I was 16. But I remember starting you when I was 15. This is another world because now we both got teenage kids. They don't have jobs at that age. They don't have jobs.

Why don't have jobs? They just don't. Like, it's not a thing. Like, Elsie got her first job. I think she was 16. And I helped her. I mean, it was a lot of her mates couldn't get jobs. It's quite hard.

I had Saturday jobs from 13, 14, 15. Yeah. I mean, the hairdressers I worked in on a Saturday had at least four or five Saturday girls. What? Yeah. Which was a semi kind of like support group for teenage girls that were hung over, really. I mean, it was sort of a job. What were you doing just like sweeping up hair?

Sweeping up, making tea, passing up, neutralising perms. Neutralising. Neutralising. Oh my gosh. That would have been me. Yeah, that's a lovely perm. You know, I used to twist my hair and just like. put it in lots of bombs and go to bed and in the morning wake up with.

And it would just be like that? What? But, um, and my daughter did my daughter test her, actually. She twists it and goes to bed. What does she think about your, um, raving youth? Oh, gosh, she found one of my journals. What? Not good.

And read it? Well, she didn't really like, I'd be mortified if my kids read my journals. So basically in the story, she found this book and it said, um, English homework and read it. And it was literally one of my nights out. And I was like, what happened? Well, she has, she kind of sees me differently. now. I'm not going to tell what I was in there. Whoa. But you think it, I was definitely not doing what she's doing at 15.

Right. And it's like, yeah, I had a job. I was going to all-nighters. You were quite a good girl. You weren't doing drugs and you were going to work on the, after raving. Yes. You weren't, you weren't naughty. Yeah, no, you weren't naughty, but 15, I mean, that's tall. Think about it. Also, 15's quite young. Yeah. It's quite young. And I think about it now. There was a club called Reflection. And Coff people all know this. And it was the roughest nightclub in Coventry.

And that was the first nightclub I ever went to because it was the place to go to. Oh, they always call reflections or options. There was a scene in hometown, hometown, where they went through all the club names. Oh, my gosh. When gas became liquid and then liquid became evaporation and then we spent the night of liquidation. And just like, oh, no, that was before it became evaporation. And it was all the club names. of Coventry. There is a whole page

on Facebook which is like Coventry nostalgia and it's awful when you actually really recognise a lot of those faces and makes you all really old. But the first night I ever went out, went out with my friend and she wanted to get off with this guy. So she left me on the corner of this road

and first time I'd ever been out. It's like three in the morning and everyone's around me and it felt like I was watching but no one knew I was there. So she went off down this alleyway with this guy and in that moment these two guys went running down the road after this Asian guy glassed him

and I was just like and then she came back and just went to my hands smell of cheese Oh no what happened to the Oh okay oh right I mean I would not be sniffing your friend's hands I'd be like mate you sniff him I was just like I'm out Yeah I don't like it's my first night out

I came out to Raven Archive and I do not want to be sniffing hands hands. Thank you. No. What's the next one? Oh, should we do the wedding? You look so beautiful. I've seen this picture before. Look at you. You're very young when you got married. How old were you? I think I was about 30, 29. Oh, not super. Well, you look very young. Are you pissed? You've got wine in your hand. What's that? So this is July 1st, 2006, and it was the quarterfinals of the World Cup with England versus Portugal. On your wedding day?

On my wedding day. You're watching a football match. You probably didn't have a choice, did you? Basically, when we decided the day, because Neil's massively into football. Is it? He still plays every Thursday. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah.

And I have not got a clue. though I watched Dear England James Graham playing and it's great and I learned about penalties I love it that that's your offering that's your offering for the world of football I have watched to play about it and I understand there's a thing called penalties

Oh I do watch a World Cup On your wedding day That's no That wasn't posh That was gentle Oh that was gentle You're gentle of voice But I said to Niro

I said whatever happens Our wedding day is not going to be about football Oh dear So Fast forward to So then when we found out that the quarterfinals on our wedding day So it's not even a final, it's a quarterfinal. And England never get to any final quarter semi-final final.

And I just said, look, our wedding is more important. I said, no. And he said maybe we could put TV up. I was like, no, no, nothing. I was a complete. I was totally like, no, it's about our wedding. I said, I think everyone can sacrifice football for a day. When did you lose that battle?

Because it clearly didn't plan out. Well, we got married to the Royal Society. of the Arts and Sciences and we had this huge room. Where did you get married? Say that again. Royal Society of the Arts and Sciences. Where's that?

In the Strand. Oh, okay. Beautiful place. And we basically just finished our main. So you had a big fancy wedding? Not big and fancy, just full of friends. On the Strand. Yeah, on the Strand.

I mean, not on the Strand, but it was in a building. It was nice. Central London wedding. Yeah, it was really lovely. Yeah. And then, so I noticed that one of Neil's friends, It was like an antennae coming out of his ear. And this is pretty smart phones, isn't it?

Yeah, of course. I was like, what are you doing? He was like, nothing. So they were like pockets of people. Listening to the radio. Listening to what's going on. And then after the main course, people started to disappear. And Neil was kind of like, sweating.

He was literally like, you know, you can't control this. And then even my aunties were disappearing in my uncles. And I was like, it's really empty. So I went looking for the congregation. And I turned this corner and everybody was like watching on this wide screen TV. Oh my goodness. Watching the penalties. And I was like, and get back in there and have your clapjumans, which was the dessert.

And I was like, and my auntie just said, oh, sit down. And I was like, oh, this is, my auntie's watching this as well. Oh, so if I go in there, I'm alone. So literally, at least it was penalties. That moment. Yeah, it's not long. I just sat down and someone gave me some wine and I was resigning myself

and Neil turned the corner and took a picture and he's like, what the fuck are you doing? And I was like, I'm watching the penalty. And we lost. Oh God. And then you got your wedding day back. And then everyone was like, oh, and then it was great. We danced.

We had... Horse dancing. It was great. It was great. Where did you and Neil meet? Oh, God. That's a long story. Well, abbreviate it.

Abbreviated. Pullet points. I haven't got short stories. Maginda. Okay. He watched me in a play. He saw you in a play. So he saw me in a play with Nabil.

Nabil introduced us. Nabil and I just played a couple in Triggerpoint. Really? Oh my God. We have a romantic story. Oh, that was very subtle. When they told us, it was like, ooh. It's going to be a big thing.

Our arms brush in a corridor. It's like, oh, okay. Nabil I've known for years. I love him. So he is the one who introduced me to Neil. Did he? So me and Nabil were doing... I didn't know that.

He's your Cupid. Well, he is. So we were doing a play reading together and Neil was watching the play reading at Battersea Arts Centre and afterwards Nabil was like, this is Manginda, this is Neil, we went high, high and then didn't see each other

for two years. But I remember him wearing a cap and a leather jacket and he remembers this skinny Indian girl being quite good. And then years later, we met at my friend's birthday party. I was with someone else,

he's with someone else. But we started chatting. and just clearly there was a connection but we stayed in touch yeah like just as friends yeah I was in his first short film and um so he had a background he's a filmmaker as well playwright and a filmmaker yeah writer-director but we started on a work relationship but he was unlike anyone else he was kind of not yeah he just wanted me to be the best of myself and before that I dated a few actors oh terrible You want to say, my husband's an actor.

Ben is lovely. Yeah, Ben's lovely. He's an exception. Actually, not all actors. I mean, I'd put you on. We all just slag off comedians and actors. And then we go, oh yeah, they're all my friends. So and so, so, so is nice.

I don't want to be in a relationship with any of them. But, no, Neil was, yeah, he is like the most sturdy. He's lovely. And so humble. Like, he's so talented. And he's not like me that shouts about what I do. He's like, he just quietly gets on with it. Check out the big stars, big series, and blockbuster movies.

Streaming on Paramount Plus. Cue the music. Like NCIS, Tony and Ziva. We'd like to make up your own rules. Tulsa King. We want to take out the competition. The substance. This balance is not working.

And the naked gun. That was awesome. Now that's a mountain number. Entertainment. What was this production, what was this a drama with Riz then? Because I was Brits. I don't remember that. I remember it very well.

It was really huge, wasn't it, at the time. It was kind of interesting. 2007? Yeah. Wow. As you walking past your face on a poster. Yeah, that was a... So you're just a baby, you're sitting in your 20s at this point.

Yeah. So that was in South Bank. But there were posters everywhere. And I remember thinking, this is too much. So I'm not one of those people. Was this Peter Complincey's first big thing? Yes, who you've worked with as well. Who I've worked with as well.

Yeah. But I, when there's, like, even doing this, I'm like, this is too public for me talking about. Oh, really? Yeah, I don't mind doing it, but I like to. So when I did Brits, it was quite, I mean, it's quite controversial. Yeah. So I played a medical student who becomes radicalized and becomes a suicide bother. and you were you in Riz Ahmed brother and sister yeah

and he played someone who was working for the MI5 it was very dramatic I remember it very it was a tough watch it was really tough and it was but it was kind of like incredible to do as an actor but also to learn about the anti-terror legislation because Peter's thing is his research and he's so good at that

and he's so thorough and if you look at his documentaries from way back. He did the government inspector just a couple of years before. His work is amazing, isn't it? His work is amazing. We need those voices to challenge the Institute.

And that's another way of arts kind of questioning society. This was his first drama that he'd written. And how was that for you as an experience to shoot and all of it? It was incredible. Because we shot in India as well.

But it's my first telelead. And a big job. Yeah. But I'm a big job. But when it came out, I remember being asked to you all these interviews, and I was terrified of saying the wrong thing. So I kind of, because you want something that's out there, it's out there. So I chose to write about it.

So I wrote an article for Guardian about why I took the role on, what I hope it will do. And, you know, and then I just put that out there and did a couple of little small things, and that was it. But so when the posters were everywhere, I remember doing a play at the Royal Court, I thought, I'm just going to do something small. Right. So, yeah. And also, it wasn't, it was a time when it was difficult within the arts anyway. It was not like I was getting lots of offers because I was still the minority.

So you can do what, you know, I remember we want a BAFTA for that. And two weeks later, I was asked to go and audition for a scene in a comedy. So nothing had changed. It was like, oh, but I, oh, okay. And that's the thing. He's like, I think Brits is a little bit dated, but I think off that, at that time, it was really important, the stuff that was being said and what was being discussed. So, you know, and then, but then it's the whole thing about representation. Yeah.

I mean, I think what we, the conversation that we would have now probably wouldn't be about why certain people radicalised or in Britain. It would be what's caused the rat, because everything is through the lens of Western, sort of colonialism, isn't it? And so it's like these things are happening in a vacuum. I think the conversation now would be, well, what foreign policies or what has this, you know, what has this colonial infrastructure created and what is the, you know, and all roads lead back to Britain. Yes. And at that time, all roads led to. ISIS or the Taliban or the you know or the or or this whole idea of Muslim radicalisation which is such a tiny tiny kind of percentile of people within that religion and it has caught

it's so much damage and Islamophobia and otherism yeah and dehumanisation we see it off pre-9-11 even stories that were told um like actually Neil wrote a drama called second generation where there's Muslim and Indian characters. And you watch it, it's like watching a historical piece because there's none of the connotations of terrorism. Right. And now, you know, I think that's why stories are important because we need all the nuances so we can actually understand

that we're actually kind of all the same in a lot of ways. We want to just provide for our families. And, you know, people have, I don't think ordinary people have wild aspirations, And, you know, in fact, there's a play that I did about the far right, which is on tomorrow. Oh, the radio play. Radio 4 play. Yeah. Recorded about three weeks ago.

And it was really uncomfortable in, because I had to do more research about the world of grooming of the far right. So, and then, oh, my algorithm completely changed. I was like, oh, okay, Tommy's on top here. I don't want that algorithm. It must have been a horrible algorithm. It's for people who have that, it's normal. So anyone who has your algorithm might find it sort of... Jarring.

Yeah. But it's not to in any way say that's okay. It's more to do with if we don't step out of what is okay for us. And you're never going to find a way to be able to talk to our neighbours. And, you know, after the United Kingdom March, which was really destabilising, I did just saying everyone just go out and go to your local shop and just say hi how are you speak to the people that you don't speak to say hello more than you would I think people want to get on I don't I don't believe I really think they do as well and I and I think a lot of that othering that is being you know channeled through those algorithms that you that you witnessed you know I feel that that that dehumanization I think if for most of those people is that they have really no context with anyone that is different to them, whether they be gay, whether they be Muslim, whether they be from a different part of the world or whatever, or, you know, it's just,

and that dehumanisation then is so very easy to use as a tool to beat the very people that are being fucked over like you are. We just need leaders, you can see that and it's not led by... From a macro, politically, certainly, but in terms of like our, from what we've been talking about and your work is that we've all found community through the arts and that's always been a space where it's kind of like you're all

everyone can come everyone's welcome and it might not be the same in politics and it might not be the same in the football and it might not be but in the arts in the theatre and in the youth clubs and the raves everyone was welcome and that is

you know I lament that that's not as easy for my teenage kids not really Well, also, our phones aren't helping. No, the phones aren't helping. You can't have a rave on a smartphone. Let's go to, what's the next, is this the last photo of you in the desert? Wadi Rum in Jordan. Wow.

When was that? The most incredible place. This time last year, so I was shooting a film. Fly Little Bird, which is in post-production at the moment. moment. Yeah, so we were out there sort of two months, but I knew about Radiram and Petra. And it was just somewhere that I wanted to go. But our shooting schedule was really ridiculous. And it was, I think it was like a three hour drive to get there. It was just spectacular in the fact that, yeah, people should be coming. And I think obviously people are not visiting these countries.

But, yeah, I just know, I never thought we'd make it to Radi Ran because we got evacuated previously from, from Amman while we're in the middle of the shoot, because of the missiles from Iraq to Israel. And the day after, I was literally going to go to Radi Ran. And I remember we were shooting, it was now, it was a night shoot. first time we'd been outside and it was in the middle of night and I remember looking up and everyone had told me in Wadi Rom you will see shooting stars and it will be like something that you've never seen before. They're just there in the sky because it's so clear. So I was like, I'm going to Wadi Rang tomorrow and it's going to be incredible. And I remember, I was standing by my treadmill, I looked up and I saw something fly across the sky and I literally got my phone

And I was like, shooting stuff. Oh, God. No, no, no, meant to have. Start a plonker. It was missiles. And I was like, what the fuck? And, yeah, and that's when we just saw lots of them. And then rather than being a Wadi Ron, we were evacuated and we flew back to London the next day.

But I remember when we left, everyone, we had a crew. It was like American, British, German, Jordanians. and we all wanted to come back to finish the shoot. And I remember, so it was after a month, we were back on to fly back. But the thing, and actually, again, Neil, you know, my husband being really supportive of this. He could have just said, no way. And I do remember calling him when we saw the missiles. And I just said, don't watch news and I'm fine.

All you need to know. Yeah. But when, so when we flew back in to Jordan, it was at night. And again, I was really looking forward to going back, seeing everyone again, finishing this film. And then out the corner of my eye on the plane, as we were about to go down, I remember just seeing sparks from the plane window. And I looked down, and it wasn't coming from the sky. It wasn't lightning.

It was just bits of light, which were just lighting up parts of Mastaf and Gaza. So you literally saw the bombs fall at night And I just got absolutely shivers And it was chilling So where can people go and see the exhibition? Oh gosh, okay You can see it Here, why don't you, I haven't got my glasses on

You've got your glasses on. So the stories that made us Roots, Resilience and Representation is on at the Herbert Art Gallery and Museum in Coventry That's on from the 14th of November to the 19th of April. This looks great. Archives.

This is right up our street. Oh, yeah. So, and then also, Manchin, you've got a film. This is a beautiful film. How do you pronounce that? We didn't even talk about it. It's a Deco, look. Deco.

Deco. Deco. Deco. Which is going to be played at the Aesthetica Film Festival in York between the 6th to the 9th of November. This film was commissioned by the Alzheimer's Society, wasn't it? And do you want to tell us a little bit about that? It's worth plugging it.

Is it a short or is it a picture? So my mum sadly had dementia and we lost her to the illness. And throughout, it's probably one of the most difficult things I've ever been through to slowly grieve someone and lose someone. And especially like, you know, knowing who, who she was and yeah and I wanted to do something um to talk about dementia within our communities

and especially within the Asian community and I found people found it difficult to talk about well the key thing that I'm a lot stayed with me but that there's no word for it in Punjabi yeah there isn't there is a word if you look up for Alzheimer's or dementia dementia it comes up as bargle like you're mad so and so you there's already a stigma attached to it and I want and I know so families going through it. My own extended families, they've got people with dementia, and there's no support system. So I knew I wanted to do something. So I'd been collecting notes about what part of my mum's story I might tell. Again, it had to be fiction. So I had to remove it. So I wrote a short film for Alzheimer's Society, heavily influenced by personal experience, but at a time when someone

looks like they're not ill, but are obviously, they've obviously got stages and symptoms. And I wanted to look at it from a child's point of view because my kids found it difficult. They, and I think it's something that we don't talk about because as adults, we don't understand it, so we just avoid it. So poor kids, how are they ever supposed to learn about it? How this was a process it. Yeah, so the whole film is from a 10-year-old boy, my son, his point of view. and yeah it follows her sort of loss of English language

and how she has resorted speaking in Punjabi which is her mother tongue yeah so it's kind of wow it's beautiful it's really beautiful thank you thank you thank you thank you so much you too you too you went away with Chloe to a haunted hotel like well you said it was haunted. You implied it? No, I said it was an old hotel and you said, was it haunted? And I said very possibly. Okay. Okay, but there was no hauntings that night. I said Whittsville Pearl and you went, oh, that reminds me. That reminds me. So we're in this hotel and the hotel and the hotel is old and that was, the reason I was telling it was old is to get to the point of why we were

watching what we were watching. And, and very cold and the heating in the corner of the hotel that we were in wasn't working in that wing. We ended up moving, but at that point we hadn't moved. So We're under the covers watching television, trying to warm up, drinking a cup of tea. Sounds hot. Sounds very sexy. I mean, it is the sexiest time. What a great date night. We did think that we were like, we really nailing this.

This is classic Chloe and I, like, whenever we go away. It's classic all old of couples. When you've been together 790 years, weekend away, you're like, we'll just tuck up on it, watch some cellies, shall we? Yeah, Chloe cleaned out the tea drawer, stuck it in a bag. That's what she always does. It's like you've never been doing. hotel before. Anyway, the fact that you took the long life milk, I thought was a step too far, but we won't go into it. Yeah, but if it's who she is, it's who she is. She doesn't want

to compromise on who she is. I found a, I found a packet of hot chocolate in my bag the day. I went, I don't, where did that come from? You went, I'll put it in there. Little treat. A little treat for you when you go on tour. I went, well, I am saying at hotels that doesn't matter is thoughtful. So we're in there tucked up and the television is just a shitty digital one. You can't get like any kind of Netflix or anything. like that on there. So we're going through generic TV channels and all of them are not tuned.

You can't get anything. Right. But you can get a channel called drama. Drama. That's a broad church. And who should be, who should be on drama? Me! But back-to-back episodes of Wittstable Pearl.

I wonder why. I wonder why. Like, I've never heard of drama channel. Well, you've heard of it now. Because there you were, Kerry. You didn't watch it. We did. Jen.

We watched two and a half episodes. What? Yeah. Jen? Yeah. You don't answer my fucking WhatsApp, but you'll watch two and a half episodes of me wanking on telly. Yeah. Yeah.

There was a weird thing. You were in a relationship with Robert Webb. Here we go. I was like, where did that come from? I thought there was a will you won't you with the flipping... When did you leave off the other, season one? Yeah. Right.

Well, we've done three. Oh, okay. A lot's happened. I missed season two. And then we've gone into season three and Robert Webb's there and I'm like, I don't really understand that relationship. Wait, how does that happen?

He came in in season two. Did he? Yeah, he's my boyfriend. Boyfriend. Oh, wow. So it's a love triangle now. Actually, a love square because also Howard's character as a girlfriend.

Girlfriend. Yeah, but he's, because I saw the one, what one of them was he, was almost like rear, what's that one, that Hitchcock one, when he sees a murder? Rear window. Is it rear window?

That's the rear window, isn't that in the car? No, it's in a house out the back of the window. Jimmy Stewart in a wheelchair. Jimmy Stewart in a wheelchair. I need said wheelbarrow. Jimmy Stewart in a wheelbarrow. Oh my God, that would be so much better if he was in a wheelbarrow. Yes, it's like Jimmy Stewart in a wheelbarrow except it was him with his leg up, stuck in the thing, watching a woman being attacked by her husband.

Well, that whole episode. Yeah. Was that it wasn't. Don't give it away. Oh, okay. Yeah, that whole episode is based on real window. I've really got that. Yeah, because you were kind of implying like you were clever to notice it, but I think...

But it was definitely front and centre of the whole vibe. Right, okay. Well, what was your character in it? Well, I'm Wittstable Pearl. They were doing a homage. They weren't doing a remake of Rear Window. Right. They were doing a homage.

Do they call it a homage or an homage? Is the H silent? I meloprop most days, so this could be today's quota fulfilled. Okay, so I didn't get that, that, that I didn't get that, that that was a deliberate thing. It was deliberate. But it also, they do one episode per season where they do a homage. And you are absolutely delightful in it. Very different to your real life personality.

Really? Yeah, because you're quite warm, sort of gentle kind of person, inquisitive. I am all those things. I am all those things. Jen? No. I am all those things. Wow.

Are you? I am warm. Yeah. I am inquisitive. And what was the other one? I don't know. I'm all of those things. Nice, friendly.

It just seems like that because I've got a bobble out on, but it's just me. I was watching it going, wow, this is a very different Kerry. But I suppose you are acting. Yeah, I'm acting. You're acting. And I don't think you'd ever put up with that bloke. Either of them. Either of those men in real life.

I love how committed you are to this. In real life, I just kept thinking there's no way Kerry could have put up with But I'm not Kerry. I'm Wittable Pearl. I know. I'm Pearl Lohman. I live in Wittstable. I'm a Kemp Bell.

Yeah. And you used to be a copper. I used to be a police officer. Then I got a seafood restaurant. I'm a single mum. It's not me, Jen. It's Wittstable Pearl. It looks like you.

She's got my face. She's got your face. She hasn't got your hair. Really? Yeah, it's got different hair. No, different hair. Different wardrobe. Different wardrobe.

Very different. No emcy. How much trousers? No. No MC Hammers. Have you taken the H from homage, put it on to MC Hammer. Yeah, yeah. I think we ought to be doing that a bit more.

Take the H away from when the H is silent and add it to a word that doesn't have an age. Yes, I have a surplus of H's because I've dropped them all because of my accent. Yeah. So stick them all somewhere else. Well, that's what happens when you're a Kent Bell. I've got a plant called Kent Bell. Anyway, look, stop talking. Thank you.

Thank you.